In this episode, we talk to Ms. Jamell O'Neal, assistant principal and former 2nd grade teacher, about her purpose in education. Ms. O'Neal shares her passion for centering students in conversations about education. She discusses how she engages families, collaborates with colleagues, and seeks feedback in her growth as an educator and administrator. Ms. O'Neal tells us how much it means to hear from students who attribute success to what they learned in her second grade classroom.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

teachers, students, principal, cps, joi, opportunity, serve, leaders, pursued, years, wanted, amy, collaboration, school, parents, administrator, teaching, left, educators, felt

SPEAKERS

Jamell O'Neal, Amy Vujaklija, Joi Patterson

That is what keeps me vested in education because my work has been able to inspire and touch students of all different demographics to go on to do great things.

Welcome to our podcast teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. I am Dr. Amy Vujaklija, Director of educator preparation.

And I am Dr. Joi Patterson chief diversity officer. Our podcast addresses issues through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion, along with solutions for us to grow up educators.

So join us on our journey to become better teachers and leaders. So let's get into it. Good morning, Dr. Joi.

Good morning, Dr. Amy, how are you?

I'm fantastic. Because we are talking to educators who have decided to stay in the field, not about teacher burnout, not about educators leaving not about trying to recruit to the profession. We're talking about people who stand with in this career proudly and have longevity. And it's

it's exciting. It's exciting. It's such a happy place that I know we spent a lot of time dealing with the issues and the path of why teachers leave and we have a whole litany of reasons of why teachers leave. But it's really time to focus on why educators stay and not just teachers, beyond teachers, all of our educators, whether they're administrators, school counselors, social workers, speech pathologist, so all of us, why do we stay in this profession and I absolutely love it, Amy.

I do too. So let me introduce our guest. Jamell O'Neal is the proud assistant principal of Kate Starr Kellogg Elementary, Jamel began her teaching career with Chicago public schools over 21 years ago. In 2018, Jamel decided to become an administrator to advocate and provide access for all students to quality standards aligned instruction that would motivate and challenge them to strive for excellence. She received a Master of Arts from Governor State University in Educational Leadership. After completing the master's program, Jumel pursued further learning and was accepted into the rigorous new leaders for New Schools program as a part of cohort 20 to one of Jamal's core beliefs is that teachers have the greatest impact on student achievement. With that in mind, she is dedicated to working with teachers to improve their instructional practices to ensure equity in closing the achievement gap for all students. She is excited about returning back to elementary school, where she spent the majority of her teaching career to now serve as the new assistant principal. serving alongside one of Chicago's most distinguished principals within CPS Jamell was presented the opportunity to continue to learn and develop as a leader and serve as an ally to our principal by participating in the Khan distinguished principals fellowship. Thank you for joining us, Janelle O'Neill. Good morning, ladies. Good morning.

How are you so excited to have you here and what a bio. I love it. I don't know how it is for you to hear that and how much you have accomplished in just a very short time of your life. But it is amazing, to say the least. And when Dr. Amy was talking about that program that you went through to become an administrator. It is a very rigorous program. So I know we gotta have listeners that can identify with that and say, I know I know you made a Janelle but tell us before we get into all that. Okay, tell us about your journey as an educator to becoming an administrator.

Awesome. Thank you again, ladies for having me this morning. Believe it or not when I tell my story. I did not originally leave high school. I'm a product of CPS graduated from Morgan Park High School. I originally went away to Western Illinois and when I went away, I had desires to move into the field of computer science. So I had no interest in education at all. So at that time, my dad was a huge advocate, and computer science and that was, you know, my upbringing, oh, this is the way to go, this is the way to go. So I ventured off to Western Illinois, didn't do well, it was not my passion. So a couple of undergraduate classes, and I actually had an opportunity to serve in a pre K kindergarten class. So that just happened to be a nutrition class. And it was a requirement for me to serve and volunteer in that center. And so it was at that point, that I actually got an opportunity to work with foreign five year olds, that I discovered, hey, this, this sparks something for me. So at that time, I transitioned from Western I came home, and I pursued an early childhood, that degree at Chicago State. And so at that point, I pursued education. I went through student teaching, and this was my passion. So that spark that time that I actually had to work with those students, and how they were able to respond to me that that was the catalyst that broke the camel's back. And here I am. And so I pursued with Chicago State. I graduated in 2000. And I went right away and I served in second grade teacher in Inglewood. So I started off in the Englewood community. I served there for two years teaching second grade. And then after that, I had an opportunity or colleague that I graduated from Chicago State with was teaching at Kellogg Elementary. And so Kellogg has a very small community there as one class per grade. So teachers don't leave that school, they retire. And so a teacher retire, there was an opening for me, I interviewed the principal hired me at that time, I spent the majority of my career at Kellogg for 14 years. During that time, we had I had four or five different principals during my tenure at Kellogg that either left Kellogg and went to a district physician, or they retired. So at this time, now, my years there is where I really got that experience with working with teachers, principals have put me in roles of leadership to either be the great band lead, and go to the network and get the information and bring it back and present to teachers. So during that time, as well, I really got that time to really work with teachers, the principal left and retired. And I said, Hey, you know what, I really want to pursue being a school leader. I left because we were in the process of hiring a new principal. And actually, one of my parents that I taught her son in second grade, was a CPS principal. And she had been asked to open a new school that was opening up in the South Chicago community. It was a brand new school, she was able to choose her own staff. And she called and she said, hey, I want you to come over and teach second grade. So I left Kellogg, I transferred all to South Chicago. And that was an experience for me working with a different student demographic, right. So I was servicing Hispanic population of students and also African American. So I stayed there for six years. And then at that point, my assistant principal at that time, mentioned to me and she says, hey, you know, have you ever thought about let me back up before then in 2019, as during my time at South Chicago School set Loski that is where I pursued my educational leadership degree with Governor state. Okay, so that was an experience. I met a lot of wonderful individuals that to this day, I still keep in contact with, I was the only one from CPS. So that was a new experience. I was the only one in my cohort from CPS. So I watched many of the individuals in that cohort take on positions. They B went on to become Dean's they went on to become principals they went on to become assistant principals where CPS was designed a little bit different. I knew that I wanted to stay within CPS because I had offers to go to other districts, but I didn't know that I wanted to stay within CPS. So during that time, when I finished my degree at Governor state, I then pursued some options for assistant principal ship because that was that was the path that I wanted to take pursuing a system principalship first and then the pathway to the principal seat. I did not have any opportunities that presented themselves for me. And then it was at that time where I felt like okay, what's what's happening? I you know, am I not ready? What is it that I need? And so I continue to work as a teacher. After I finished that program at Governor state. I continue to serve as a teacher and the ESA suppressible at that time, who was also an the leaders alumni, she asked, Hey, have you ever thought about applying for new leaders? So I mentioned that word applying. Because just because you apply does not mean you're going to get an accepted, it is a very strenuous program to become a part of. And so I pursued it. So this time in January, I pursued, I got accepted. And then there was another process to get accepted through CPS. So to make a long story short, I did get accepted through the program with new leaders, I left set Loski at that time, and one of the wonderful things that I that I really attribute to where I am now is that with that new leaders program in that connection with CPS is that it does provide you with a principal residency. And so it gives you the opportunity to serve alongside and learn from a mentor, principal, and also really do that day to day work of leading as a principal. So I got an opportunity to do that, to have that experience connected to new leaders. And I served in the Brighton Park area for a year from my residency. And then after my residency in June, they prepare you for the principle eligibility process. You have that on the job coaching from from your mentor, principal, and also there's a coach alongside you with connected to the New Leaders program, there was an opening for several schools I apply, I then felt much more confident, and being able to speak to my work as a school leader, having had that principal residency underneath my belt. So I was able to kind of learn a lot through that residency. And then at that point, I saw an opening for Kellogg, which has always been home for me, I apply the principle says, Hey, I'm going on vacation, I'll give you a call. When I get back from vacation. He calls me when he returned from vacation, call me in for an interview. And some of the same colleagues that I served alongside with as a teacher, were still there. So it is a true blessing to be back in the school community where many of the parents who were students at that time, they now have siblings that are still there. So it's really a great homecoming for me.

Oh, that's a wonderful story of a love this journey, that there has been discussion about people leaving the field of education, we've actually had several conversations and talked about the different reasons that people leave, that often overshadows the reasons people stay. And we want to delve into that topic. That's the topic we are really interested in, tell us a little about how you define your role as an educator, and the context in which you serve to help us understand why you are in education staying there.

I think for me, one of the things that has really kept me in this field is that it is my ultimate passion to serve. So I have a heart of service. And so I look at this work as an opportunity to inspire students having 20 years in education to have students come back to me and say, Oh, my goodness, Mrs. O'Neal, I remember when we did this in class, I am now pursuing, I have a student that just finished law school, and to have someone come back to me and say, Mrs. O'Neal, when you gave us opportunities to give speeches in class in second grade, this is what led me to want to take on this career path. So for me, that is what keeps me vested in education, because my work has been able to inspire and touch students of all different demographics, to go on to do great things. And it starts with just what, what teachers pour into students each day. And that's my passion. That's my drive. That is what has kept me committed to this work. And even now on this path of leadership, that is why I do this work now to build other teachers up so that they can then also have that same confidence they can also have those same opportunities of leadership that they see themselves as this powerful vessel that it's able to pour into students to to ultimately be able to not only inspire impact, but also close that achievement gap for students as well. So I don't know that to me, I felt like I went off on a tangent. That that's my drive. That's my

that's great. We have so much in common, you know, the three of us our passion for teaching and Amy and I are not classroom teachers anymore. And we all came through, you know, we had different paths. When all of us started college careers, none of us were thinking about teaching, you know, so it's interesting how teaching found us all kind of later in life. And we discovered something about ourselves that said, Oh, you are a teacher, this is what you should be doing. And that's great confirmation. And it sounds like you've received a lot of confirmation along the way of telling you, this is exactly what you should be doing. I also grew up in Inglewood. So I taught at CPS school to when I first started teaching, so we have a lot of things in common. You've had such a wealth of diverse experience to shape who you are. But Jamel, let's think back for a moment when you became a teacher. And it sounds like us, you're always going to be a teacher at heart, no matter what your position is. You're going to be a teacher at heart. And he was there a defining moment when you trusted yourself, when you felt like you were really a professional educator impacting the lives of others. I can't remember a time when I felt that way. Was there a defining moment for you, when you're like, Wow, I'm doing this. I'm doing it. I'm doing it right. I am a professional educator.

I think that I have opportunities to impact students to impact teachers. I'm trying to I don't know if I can definitely pinpoint a defining moment. I don't know that's. And I think some of the things that I heard you say earlier, is when people are students started responding to you. students responding to me, it makes me think I talked about this book, I had two students purchase this book for me over the years, and it's called a teacher. It made me think when I kind of just heard what the podcast was going to be about, right? I'm thinking about what keeps teachers in this work. And I wanted to if I could just share just please. So the book is called because I had a teacher and it was written by Kobe Yamada. Mm hmm. And so in this book, it just starts off saying, because I had a teacher, I love to learn, I discovered that I can do much more than I thought I could. And so there's some other pages. But then when I flip to the back, it says, it ends by saying I believed, I'm sorry, because I had you I learned to believe in me. And so I think when I think about defining moments, it's very hard for me to pinpoint one. But when I think about what I set out to do, which is to serve every student that's come through my class, the response that I've gotten over the years, to be able to have students give me books like these with, you know, handwritten notes inside to say, thank you for preparing me for third grade, to have parents come and say, hey, you know what? You were tough on on joy. But you know, what joy was what she needed. Joy needed to get her ready. And now look at her, you know, she's that mother McCauley. So I saw, I think it's hard for me to pinpoint one defining moment. But it is it's those times of that I felt validated by my

right, right, by others. And yes, wonderful, wonderful. And thank you for sharing that that was that made my day.

So I'm going to take us down a slightly different path for just a moment. I remember, as a classroom teacher, there were times when administrators disagreed with the books I wanted to use, or the different instructional pathways I wanted to take. It needed to be in line or lockstep with the other members of the department. And that was hard sometimes. Have you ever worried or, you know, maybe tell us about situations or policies that you've worried about, or that had might have been at odds with your beliefs, or your ideas of best practices? And how did you face them? This is something those new teachers and even veteran teachers would love to hear.

Absolutely. I think one of the things that has been very beneficial over my years as a teacher, is that I've, for every school that I've served in, I've had opportunities to be a part of that schools. Instructional Leadership Team. So different schools do it differently. Some are some members of the team are planted by the school leader. Some it is very open, it's very loose, hey, if you want to be a part of it. And so one of the things that I've always been presented with an opportunity to be a part of teams where I've been able to voice my, I wouldn't say concern, but just hey, how do you feel, right? So to be at the table to be able to say, hey, you know, what, I really think that we need to stay with this curriculum, where everyone else wants to move in this direction. So not that always that my, my way has been the best way or that the team has decided to go with my suggestion. But I've been okay with moving in the direction of ultimately, what the principal's decision has been. And what the team decided, I think, because I've always felt heard, I felt validated. And also just to be a part of the team, if that makes sense. So I really haven't had too many times where I've disagreed with leadership, or felt that I wanted to go this way, and everyone else wanted to go this way. But yet, I've always been able to be to be a part of the team to have discussion around, Hey, what is in the best interest of students. And I think that if we keep that at the forefront, there's nothing that we can't figure out as a team, if we keep that at the forefront was in the best interest of students.

So I really like that. Yeah, that's

a really good point about entering into a school culture, too, is if it is in alignment to your beliefs, and what's best for students.

Mm hmm. So I mean, this is a good lesson for me, too, you know, and always trying to think, with the end in mind, and what's best for the students. And that will shape how you go into the conversation. So this is a good segue for the question I have about collaboration, which is a big part of education. That's not something that I learned early on in education, I actually had a Do Not Disturb sign on my door, when I started teaching, because I just didn't want to hear the noise. I didn't want to hear the gossip. I didn't want to hear all of those things. So it wasn't later on. Until later on that I learned how to collaborate. And now I'm dependent on collaboration. And it sounds like you really, really, really nailed it. And so as an administrator, when you collaborate with other administrators, or your teachers, or maybe even students who you collaborate with the most, and what joy do you find and collaborating, because it seems like you really nailed this part of the job.

I know nail just the word Dr. Joy, but

a lot further than I was.

When I but I do think that I've learned over the years that we can't do this work alone, from even from a teacher's perspective, you can't do this work alone, you need your other colleagues to be able to bounce ideas off of as a school leader, you can't do this work alone, because you need other ideas from other school leaders and you need your team, you need your teachers, because they're the ones that are making the magic happen in the classroom every day. I think for me, as a teacher, as a teacher, I found oftentimes, I was collaborating with my other team members that were on my grade level team. And then also being a part of the ILT, the instructional leadership team, so that gave me an opportunity to collaborate with other colleagues from different grade levels. I think now, in this role I am meeting honestly, I would say probably teachers and students just as much, right? Every Monday we have a leadership team. That's that's consist of myself, the principal, the counselor, the case manager, and that's every Monday. So that gives us an opportunity to plan and think about as a leadership team, what are our next moves? Right? Well, you know, thinking and then also we have bi weekly meetings with a team of teachers that maybe five to six teachers of all different grade levels to think about, Hey, what is the professional development look like for teachers? What are the next steps? How are we getting students prepare for upcoming benchmark testing. So that's happening bi weekly. But then as far as students are concerned, I'm now taking on this lead of trying to create a student voice committee for our school because based upon our data, there's a need for students to feel more connected to our school community. So that's something that bi weekly now trying to get off the student voice committee. So I think to your point, collaboration is It's needed for a teacher and a school leader to be able to collaborate with not only other teachers, but also collaboration with students as well. Because believe it or not, their voice matters. And what comes from collaboration with both teachers and students is just new ideas, new perspectives, Hey, I didn't think about that. Okay, for that, hey, there's another way that we could go about this. So I think being solution oriented, and then making sure that all voices are heard. And so I think that's one of the benefits of collaboration.

I want to take this topic, this subject of collaboration a bit further, there are people who bring us down and people who lift us up, who helps you become a better version of yourself. And who is the person you do the same for

a better version of myself, a couple of people, but I think first and foremost, I attribute who I am, I think just to my, my upbringing, and my overall faith that I have. So I mentioned earlier about, I do this work, and I look at this work as a service, right. And so daily, I am convicted each day to be a better version of me to be someone that lets my light shine, based upon my belief, right, and my spiritual beliefs. So with that being said, I self evaluate myself each day like, Hey, am I leading from my heart as far as my core values, what I believe is best for the students that I serve. And I always lead with this model of what this be the best for my own children, I have two children of my own. And so I always challenge other teachers to think about, Hey, would this be good enough for your own children? So I think that is one person that challenges me to be a better version of myself. But then also, I look to my principal that I serve alongside with, so I'm always looking for feedback from him, Hey, how can I be a better school leader? What are what are some things that you feel that I do very well? What are some strengths that I have? And also, what are some areas of growth? So staying connected to him where we have weekly check in meetings where it's just the two of us? And I have a, I have a script? Hey, you know, let's look at this week, what what could I have done better? How do you think I handled that conversation with that teacher? What could I have done better? So I think really pulling on him to help and shape me because at the end of the day, I desire the principal seat, right? So I want to learn as much as I can to make sure that I am most prepared. So I think connecting myself staying connected to my to my principal. And then also I am in a new assistant principal cohort, where I get an opportunity to meet other once a month meeting with other assistant principals in our network area. And that gives me an opportunity for collaboration as well. So I get to talk to other assistant principals in my role, like, hey, well, you know, what's working for you at your school. And again, that collaboration piece comes in again, so, and for me, so that that's what shaped me to be a better individual, I think for me in my role, because I have this belief that student achievement is impacted by teachers. So my role is to build the capacity of the teachers that I lead. So I want to find out what your interests are, I want to find out what your strengths are. I want to find out what your areas of growth are, so that I can support you so that you can be the best version of yourself.

I really love your awareness.

And this takes collaboration to a different level it it's seeking out people who lift you up, right, so often and just like you were saying, Dr. Joi with the sign on the door, Do Not Disturb trying to block out the negative influences. And that can bring us down so quickly as educators. But like what you're saying, Jemelle is this seeking out people who lift us up and lifting others up as well. That's the power. That's the strength that we can draw upon.

Yeah, I love it. And I love that awareness that you have and putting those things together is that you're still building yourself, right? You're still building yourself for that next level to constantly be better. You know that your strength comes from those teachers. Those teachers are your tool. Absolutely. So they are your strongest tool and what can you do to uplift them and at the same time you're really crafting yourself. So many times we get into these administrative roles, and we're acting in emergency mode, right? And we're trying to deal with the emergency of the day, and you can't see the big picture. So I love your awareness. Also, sometimes, as administrators, I know for me, I sometimes feel like an intrusive influencer. And when we talk to our advisors, we always talk about being intrusive, being intrusive advisors, and all of that. And ideally, you want people to be able to come to you, you don't want to have to always be so intrusive, you want to be so impactful, where they come to you, do you feel like you have unity within yourself and within the school and with your colleagues.

I do. And I think, going back to that point, around awareness, one of the things that was very important for me is that when I came into this role, I wanted the staff to be able to see me as a, as a as a resource. So one of the things I immediately did was I set up one on 115 minute conferences, so any teacher could fill out a time slot, where we would have an opportunity just to just have a very informal conversation. And I wanted to come in the door, just really learning about each staff member. So it was very informal, hey, tell me about your professional goals. Tell me about your family, I wanted to try to build that connection right away. So that was something that was new to the school community, I think that really kind of just really set the tone. And then when week zero started for PD, I introduced this, it's called the Business chemistry by Deloitte. And so this was something that I wanted to do, whereas it was kind of based around that the science of business relationships. And so I introduced that to the staff as a way to find out, hey, let me learn more about what joy and Amy's strengths are, how do they see themselves. And so that was really eye opening for us as a staff, as we got an opportunity to learn, okay, well, who's the driver, right? Who's the one that kind of is who's the one that's free spirited. So in a staff meeting, I don't really need to maybe expect that they're going to, you know, have all of the i's dotted and the T's crossed. But it was really eye opening. And it really started this sense of building community. And that was what I really wanted to bring to that school community. And it also opened the door for building trust. And so now, I think, to your point, Dr. Joi, I don't see myself as much as an intrusive influencer, where I think now staff members see, okay, I can come to Gmail, I can say, hey, I'm having trouble with this. And it is really helped, because I've had to have some difficult conversations with some staff members, students, I'm not gonna say everything is always rosy. But I think that when there's that level of trust, and understanding and that, you know, Hey, Joy, you can come to me, and I'm here for you, and I'm going to support you, it makes it easier to have those conversations, when I need to sit you down and say, Hey, let's let's talk about what I saw in the classroom. And how was this best practice for students, it makes those conversations a little bit easier, because there is this level of trust that that's genuine, it's not put on, it's kind of been cultivated from day one. And that's what I'm trying to keep going and just build on that.

That relationship in the building with students, with colleagues with a foundation of trust. I've experienced that in which when there was transparency, and there was trust in each other, there was a lot of grace as well. As we close our conversation today, I want to talk a little more about students and just kind of bring us back to them because at the end of the day, it's about the students just like you said, that school culture, if it is with students at the center, then our mission should be really all moving in the same direction. It's their learning, it's their achievement, it's their whole selves. Can you think of blue things that you have done that you think have had the most impact on student learning?

I think building relationships even as a teacher I can remember having morning meetings I can remember having questions of the day opportunities to learn more about students and their their experiences that they bring to the classroom. So I think taking time to build those relationships in the classroom, which oftentimes can sometimes get lost because Okay, out I've got, I've got to teach this, I gotta do this, I gotta do this. But if students don't first know that you care about them, and that you see them and that you value them, you're not going to be able to get to student learning. So I think that was something that over the years, I've been very intentional about building those relationships and weaving it into the instruction. That's been one thing. I think another thing is also recognizing that all students are different, just being able to see different serve in different diverse communities, student different graphics, or to have been different, and their backgrounds and where they are academically has been different. So really being strategic around, how am I differentiating learning for students, there is no one size fits all. So making sure that small group instruction is happening, so that I can make sure that I'm meeting the needs of every student by having that small group instruction taking place. So that's been very effective in impacting student learning. If we first remember, all students are not the same, and their, their learning needs are not the same. And I think the last thing over the years is just I've always been an advocate of engaging student families. Because we cannot do this work alone. We need the support of families and parents. And oftentimes, we hear this myth that oh, well, parents, they don't care or parents, they don't want to help their students, their child. But sometimes parents don't know how. And so sending home those newsletters to let parents know what's going on giving them some tips that they can do at home to support their child. I know, in my years of Kellogg, I always would have oftentimes have parent workshops, where if the new Common Core push was constructive responses, I can remember having a parent meeting where I had parents come in and I modeled what this new shift was with Common Core and how they can support their child with being able to write constructive responses. So I think opportunities to empower parents as much as you can. These have been some of the keys to, I think how I've been able to impact student achievement, building relationships, differentiating student learning to meet their needs and engaging families. Oh,

I love how you wrap that up.

Thank you so much. Thank

you so much. It was wonderful talking to you.

Thank you both for having me. It has been a pleasure.

Thank you for listening to teaching and leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi. Visit our website at govst.edu/teaching and leading podcast to see the show notes from this episode.

We appreciate Governor State University's work behind the things to make publishing possible. Stay tuned for more episodes with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi