In this episode, Amy Vujaklija and Joi Patterson discuss the importance of climate surveys in understanding workplace experiences and improving organizational culture. They emphasize that climate surveys should be meaningful, actionable, and transparent. Joi highlights the need for follow-up and accountability, suggesting the creation of action sheets to address survey themes. They differentiate between satisfaction surveys, which focus on specific experiences, and climate surveys, which assess overall organizational climate. Joi stresses the importance of intentionality in conducting surveys and the role of leadership in fostering a positive work environment. The conversation also touches on the impact of budget cuts on morale and the value of forums for richer feedback. Music: https://soundcloud.com/zack-brown-290928439/calm-background-for-video-121519?si=cb2fa8f66d914b7797eb3a463e5797e5&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing
Transcripts
Amy Vujaklija 0:03
A climate survey is about the listening, and the questions need to be meaningful. Teaching and leading are rewarding but complex.
Joi Patterson 0:16
And whether you're in a classroom or a campus, new challenges are always emerging.
Amy Vujaklija 0:22
I'm Amy Vujaklija.
Joi Patterson 0:24
I'm Joi Patterson.
Amy Vujaklija 0:26
And this is Teaching and Leading,
Joi Patterson 0:28
where we explore teaching, leadership, equity, and the systems that shape education,
Amy Vujaklija 0:35
and how educators can grow, explore, and have a meaningful impact
Joi Patterson 0:40
as teachers
Amy Vujaklija 0:41
and leaders, so let's get into it. Well, hello, Dr. Joi. Hi,
Joi Patterson 0:48
Dr. Amy. How are you?
Amy Vujaklija 0:51
I'm doing well. Our conversations really lift me up, and this one that we've started talking about with climate and culture, you know, people can get really kind of worried. Okay, we're talking about climate. You know, we're trying to understand the workplace and what is morale, and is it good? Is it low? But we want to talk today about climate surveys because those are more than questionnaires; they are actually those opportunities to understand how employees experience the workplace. So we want to talk today about the purpose of climate and culture surveys, and who participates, how the results are organized, what trends are shaping higher education today, and let's consider what a thoughtful survey design and what transparent communication can do to strengthen trust and engagement in what we do at the organization.
Joi Patterson 2:09
I can tell that you came up with this topic for this episode, listening with purpose, because I'm such a nuts and bolts, and I can tell that the heart of Dr. Amy came up with listening with purpose, and I think that's exactly what a climate survey does. You know, we talked about in episode one: if you're going to give a survey, make sure you're asking the right questions because it's something that you're willing to listen to and willing to change. Otherwise, don't ask the question. Right? We talked about your meatloaf before. Only ask if how it tastes if you really want the answer, you know, and you're willing to improve. You know, but I love this, especially about organizations who are willing to do this, and they are intentionally willing to listen. Because to me, if you're intentionally willing to listen and not just hear, then you are wanting to make improvements, right? The best organizations don't assume that they know how people feel. You know they ask, and even if it's a quick satisfaction survey, which is not a climate survey, but even if it's a quick satisfaction survey, you go into a little restaurant and you hit the happy face or the sad face or whatever, because it's important that we ask people who we're serving how they feel. So climate surveys are one of the most effective ways to intentionally pause and listen to the experience of the employees and students. They give everyone a voice, not just the people who complain the most, who are the loudest, most outspoken, or those who have access to leadership, right, is not just those voices. It gives everyone an equal voice. So for me, climate survey is really an invitation, and I think I described before. It's my blueprint. This is how I plan my next three academic years. It's based on the results of this survey, saying this is what they want, this is what we're going to do. So you know, we want to know what your experience has been, what's been working well, what we can improve, how we can become a better place to work or learn or whatever. So that's powerful, incredible. I don't know if it's incredible to anyone else, but it is to me. So when I'm talking to my supervisor, who happens to be the president, my conversation is, "Well, how do you value this? Tell me how you value the results of this, so that I know how to package it for you." So we can use it as a tool for improvement, not one of those things that we just check off, and then when some other big survey at the state or federal level say, "Do you do a climate survey? Yep, we do a climate survey, and it isn't about weakness or we're going to hear things we don't want to hear. It's really listening with leadership, you know, one of the things in a conversation I had yesterday, I was at a retreat, and I couldn't believe I said this because I'm the person that's like, I hate gossip. I can remember the days where I used to have a do not disturb sign on my door, refuse to go to the lounge, any of that where gossip could occur. Now I embrace it, Amy. You know, and I embrace it because I use it as an opportunity. Someone says, you know, I saw X, Y, Z, and this was happening, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it gives me the opportunity to say, no, that's not what happened. This is what happened, and here's some evidence that support that it's an aha moment for that person. Now, if you want to go to office and off to office, office, office, and now share the truth, go do that. Or you can go back to your office and do some work. But now I accept it as a challenge and as an opportunity to set the record straight.
Amy Vujaklija 6:22
That gets into the perception piece because what's hotter than some negative gossip, and that's that water cooler conversation or the office to office. Did you hear this is happening? This is happening, and it gives that perception that things are more negative than perhaps they are, because you and I both know we we're human, and sometimes we want to vent. We want to just this is my day, but that's not the overarching way we feel about our job. It might be what we feel in the moment, so that becomes a piece, right? But that leads to my next question, though, about climate surveys. Why might employees become cynical about surveys, specifically climate surveys.
Joi Patterson 7:22
Yep, and and they do, Amy. That's exactly right. It's the biggest reason why some employees become cynical or they don't trust. You know, there's like I've taken the survey survey before and nothing happened afterwards. Again, they're thinking this is what I want. That didn't happen, and therefore nothing happened. Right? I would say that organizations can ask should I ask thoughtful questions? Right? If the employees are going to take the time to provide honest feedback, then they deserve results. Right? They deserve follow up. They deserve action. So what I like to do is that I, after analyzing, putting everything together, I like to create an action sheet. Like, what are the themes that we are hearing? You know, I might get 600 different written type responses. Also, you know, what are the themes that we're hearing? What buckets do they go into? And now, what are the areas that we want to focus on? We can't focus on 600 things. You can't even focus on 20 things. But what are these big rocks? And what are these things that you can focus on? And then tell the people who took the 20 minutes, who you incentivized with a candy bar or donut, to fill out the survey for 20 minutes. Of this is what we learned. This is not all the great things, but these are also the opportunities and things that we can work on, and this is what we're going to do about it. But guess what? And I would say, I would add on, it's not just administration's job to do the improving. So I give it back to you, and I'm asking you, this is an area you need to improve too, Amy, because you're part of the culture, so you're helping create the climate, and so you're responsible as well for increasing the climate, making it more positive. So how do I make it where it's about all of us and not something that's done to you. And I think, because that's why it's so cynical, right? Or they don't trust it because they think it's something being done to them, where they think that it's not anonymous. No matter how many times you say that it's anonymous, but I think they expect to be acknowledged and heard. And there is a way to be able to do that.
Amy Vujaklija:
I want to really emphasize some things that you've said. First, a climate survey is about the listening, and the questions need to be meaningful. But also, the people experiencing or the people taking the survey need to also understand that it's not a checklist of what the organization is going to do once they get your responses. It's like, oh well, I don't feel good about this particular piece of the organization. This is how they they will fix it. It's a how are we going to create a solution that is meaningful and appropriate for everyone involved? And it's not in what are they going to do or what are they going to do to me or for me? You know, the survey you might say, like you said, might feel like oh they're doing this to me, but there's also a sense of what are you going to do for me, and it doesn't really work that way. There's got to be that buy-in. There's got to be that collaboration. You get the results, you see the themes, and it affects everyone. So everyone should have a stake in in the improvement process, and so I just feel like that we need to take ownership. Everyone needs to, but I want to shift a little bit, like to the trends that you might be seeing just across higher education, could you speak to that a little bit?
Joi Patterson:
So I would say the trends that we're seeing there's some at the federal level, at the national level, right? And not to be so political, Is that it doesn't seem to be a huge focus on things like education, which is where you and I live. And how do we see that, and how does that show up? So there's those trends in higher education where we're all feeling it. And again, not to be so political, we see those things that are impacting all of that, all of us. When we don't hear that education is being valued, we don't see that as a country right now, and it shows up in our budget, right, of how much is appropriated to us from at a national level, at a state level, and when your appropriations are impacted, that impacts how well you can serve your population, right? And so that gets to be a morale issue, not a climate issue, but it can affect your culture, right? Because if you, we've always done this thing of who we are, and that thing costs money, it can affect your culture. Or we've always had a partnership with this great organization, and they're part of who we are. And now we can't do that anymore because we don't have the funds to do that. That changes the culture, right? And so over time, that can change the climate. But immediately, it can change the morale. It can lower the morale. And so we're seeing those kinds of trends. The other thing that we're seeing is that the state is holding us accountable for climate surveys, and they're expecting us to use it in however way we want to. But you know, we do a lot of surveys, especially in higher ed. We do a lot of surveys. The survey, the climate survey, is very important to me. I would cry, Amy, if they said we are no longer going to do the climate survey because, again, I really do look at it and say, "Hey, they're giving me my job description. They're telling me what I need to do, what we need to do to improve the climate here. But we have survey fatigue, right? Everyone has the issue where of trust. You give a survey, and is it going to be anonymous? Am I wasting my time? Are you going to hear me? So all of those things. But I would say we really have to be intentional about why we're doing the survey in the first place. So I think you really have to lead with the why, because if you don't have a good why in the first place, you probably shouldn't spend your time doing a climate survey, or you need to make it really short because you're not so you can check off the box. You know, we do ours every three years, and there's. Different methods to doing this. I know that for accreditation, you have a whole assessment chart of when you do things, why you do things, and all of that. And I do too. But climate surveys shouldn't always be like on a timeline, even though I put it on a timeline because it's also a budget associated with it. But it has to start with the why, and it has to start with the purpose and what you're hoping to learn. And maybe if there was a big shift in something, like a year after that shift or something, maybe that's the best time to do an assessment. You know, and what decisions do we plan to make for it? So I think when we look at why are we doing it, what do we want to learn from it, what are we willing to shift from it, what solution can it help us solve, I think that really should determine your win, right? And then if you can get people to buy into that, because I will go any in any place in any space to try to get people to understand the why I need you to do the survey,
Amy Vujaklija:
and that's why we wanted to really focus on listening with purpose. That is the crux of this episode: is what is your purpose? What is your why? If you are collecting data to put it on a shelf and check a box to say that you did it, that diminishes trust. It leads to fatigue, survey fatigue, both on the takers of the survey, but also the people who distribute the surveys. If you're not doing anything with them, could you speak just briefly again and point out the differences between a satisfaction survey and a climate and culture survey because sometimes I can get confused, and I send satisfaction surveys to the completers of our program, employers of the people who have been through our program, and I want to make sure that we point out those differences as well.
Joi Patterson:
Yeah, so your satisfaction survey is going to be about something very, very specific, and how the participants involved experience what it is they experience. If you have cooperating teachers, and I want to send a satisfaction survey to them, it's about their experience only as a cooperating teacher in whatever it is they were involved in, so it's very, very, very specific. You know, I had we have them in the cafeteria. You press the smiley face or the sad face, and it's really about the customer service or the taste of the food, like you know. And it really doesn't tell you which one. You just, I'm just not happy and that could be because of the customer service or because the chicken was really horrible. You don't really know, but you know people are not happy with something, so it doesn't tell you a lot, right? So the satisfaction survey is very very very specific if you want to find out what people are really thinking? It really needs to be focused specific to the right people, to the right activity that they experience. The climate is for the family, is for the family that are experiencing the day to day how the policies And the communication and all of that, and transparency and trust-all of that is impacting them on a day-to-day basis. And so, one of the things that I really find is just really fascinating to me that you can have a person that feels like the climate is low, and they really love the organization, and that's because they want the organization to be all that it can be to satisfy what they want. Like I want to retire here, so because I like the benefits, I like how close it is to home. I like my salary, so I need you all to be the things that I need you to be, so that I feel good about working here. And those are the things, the voices that I want to hear because we want retention, right? And so that's what I really, really want to hear. What would it take to keep you here and to keep you motivated and in generally a good mood?
Amy Vujaklija:
And I really like the kinds of reflection questions and those action steps that. You so carefully thought through because if employees are completely honest about a particular question in response to a particular question, what would they say, and would leadership be surprised? So those next steps really is looking at those survey questions and ask the question, "Why are we asking this? Yeah, and what are we going to do with it?
Joi Patterson:
And you know, going into the next episodes, because you guys, we want you to keep listening to the next episode. The climate survey gives you a set of information. It's the forums that we have that really are so rich, and people providing the additional information that wasn't asked in the climate survey is just so rich, and people being able to express their truth in an authentic way and having that opportunity. I told you, I just love this stuff. It's like, tell me more, tell me more. You know, it's sort of it. Really is. It's like making your meatball or make a cake. You know me. I can't eat anything. You know, I have very limited diet, but I love cooking. I love baking. So when I ask people, I say, "Tell me how it tastes, and they say, "Oh, it tastes good. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, tell me how it tastes. Is it too much cinnamon? Is it too much nutmeg? Do I need more sugar? Is is it not enough sugar? Does it taste good? I want all the details, right? I need to know. Do I need to put a pinch more of cinnamon? And that's what I'll ask. Do I need to put a pinch more of cinnamon? Do I need a teaspoon or a tablespoon? What are you telling me that I need? Taste it again. Taste it again. You know, I telling me it's good does not Help me, and think of me as the administrator. You know, in those cases, because I can't taste the food anymore, I am dependent on you, Amy, to be honest with me. Number one, I got to go serve it to other people. So every time I have company, I have to find someone. Can you taste this for me before I serve it to someone else? And I need details. I need honesty from you on everything that could be improved. I'm not going to even say everything that's wrong with it, but everything that can be improved. And then I have to listen to you. I can't just say I put a lot of cinnamon there. I just put a lot of cinnamon and nutmeg in there. There should be enough. If that's not enough, too bad. I have to really listen. If you told me it needs more nutmeg, then I need to put more nutmeg, and I need to be specific about you know how much nutmeg do you think I need, and give it to you again, and let's keep trying this until I get it right.
Amy Vujaklija:
I love that analogy because you have put into words and pictures what this is all about. If you and with your limited diet, this is absolutely true. You need another person to tell you. So, if through a survey you are asking questions, you need to be specific. You need to know, like, why are you asking this question? And people taking the survey need to know to be honest because saying things are good is not helpful, and the people administering the survey want to know. They do not have that same experience as you do, so you have to give that information. Next time, we're going to talk more about that triangulation. I love what you were saying there with having the focus groups and the different information that really layers in more details and gives us those actionable items, like what really is going on. So thank you, and I look forward to our next conversation.
Joi Patterson:
I do too. Great.
Amy Vujaklija:
Thanks for listening to Teaching and Leading with Dr. Amy and Dr. Joi.
Joi Patterson:
This podcast is supported by Governor State University.
Amy Vujaklija:
Show notes and resources for this episode are available at govst.edu/teaching and leadingpodcast.
