We are thrilled to welcome Laura Van Wormer, prolific novelist and creator of the fictional podcast Class of 74. Laura shares her incredible journey from bestselling novels and a dramatic life-changing accident to innovating storytelling in the audio space. If you’ve ever dreamed of writing, reinventing yourself, or diving into creativity later in life, this episode is for you.

We kick things off by exploring why so many people unlock their creative potential in their 50s and beyond. Laura opens up about her recovery from a devastating car accident, how it reshaped her approach to writing, and why fiction podcasts are making a comeback as modern-day radio dramas. We discuss the nuts and bolts of publishing, why editors are actually air traffic controllers, and the real steps to finding a literary agent. Laura also encourages aspiring creators at any age to harness the power of life experience in their work.

Key Takeaways

• Creativity Has No Age Limit: Life after 50 is the perfect time to explore writing, audio storytelling, or any creative pursuit. Laura’s journey proves it’s never too late to start.
• Fiction Podcasts Explained: Learn how Laura’s Class of 74 blends the intimacy of novels, the energy of radio plays, and the real-time feedback of serial storytelling (09:10).
• Publishing Industry Inside Scoop: Laura demystifies how editors and agents operate, why networking matters, and practical tips for breaking in (27:32, 32:12).
• Harnessing Life Experience: Our guest shares how personal stories enrich a writer’s voice and make their characters come alive (46:41).
• Overcoming Creative Fear: Laura’s advice: just do it, and take small steps even if you’re scared (51:04).
• Podcasting for Older Adults: We discuss the accessibility of podcasts and ways for boomers to embrace new tech without fear (48:12).

Ready to ignite your creativity? Subscribe to Late Boomers on your favorite podcast platform or YouTube channel! If you’ve been inspired to start your own story, let us know in the comments. Share this episode with a friend or family member who could use a spark to help them discover podcasts and creative projects. Don’t forget: If not now, when?

Leave a comment—what resonated with you most from Laura’s story or our conversation? We want to hear from you!

Stay curious, stay creative, and keep embracing your next adventure.

— Cathy & Merry

Mentioned in this episode:

Late Boomers is part of the eWomenPodcastNetwork.

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Welcome to Late Bloomers. I'm Cathy Worthington.

And I'm Merry Elkins. We're the podcast that celebrates people who are living vibrant, creative lives after 50.

One of the most exciting things about this stage of life is that people finally give themselves permission to. To explore creativity.

Absolutely. And we hear from so many listeners who say, I always wanted to write a book. And later in life, they finally decide, why not now?

Writing is one of those pursuits that can begin at any age. In fact, life experience often makes people better storytellers.

And the way stories are told keeps evolving. Years ago, it was only novels and essays, and now we also have blogs and audiobooks and, of course, podcasts.

But today, we're talking about something even more interesting, a fictional podcast where the story itself unfolds through the podcast format.

And it's really a modern version of the old radio dramas, characters, dialogue, suspense, all told through audio storytelling.

Our guest today has a long and fascinating career in publishing and storytelling, and

she has created a fictional podcast called the class of 74, which brings together characters whose lives intersect years after their high school days.

Laura Von Wermer joins us today to talk about fiction writing, the publishing industry, and why storytelling still matters, especially later in life.

Laura, welcome to Late Boomers. We're delighted to have have you with us today.

Thank you. I feel like I'm the person you took in off the street. You're so well prepared, ladies, you know, and I just sort of come in all over the place.

Oh, you're fine.

That's what you're supposed to do.

Yeah, we love that. Laura, we have to ask you first. What inspired you to create a fictional podcast like the class of 74 instead of telling the story as a traditional novel?

Well, I did publish 14 novels, and a lot of people will recognize my name. They're all, like, in your library. And go to the library and say, where's that Riverside Drive book? Because that was my biggest book. That was my bestseller, and it's everywhere. But. So that's what I did for, gosh, a lot of years. My first novel came out in 1988, and then I was going to the west coast where you ladies are. I was flying out to help Betty White start a new book because we had the same literary agent at the time.

This is 10 years ago. And on the way there, a drunk driver got on the Merritt Parkway the wrong way and in the hero's tunnel hit me head on. And I woke up a month later. Oh, I was right. So if you're ever in Pieces go to Yale, New Haven, because they were fabulous. But one of the things that happened was that my chest got crushed. I mean, literally 16 broken ribs. And I just got all rattled around, really.

I tell you, I was on so many drugs for months when I was in the rehab, I didn't feel anything. But my family, that's where the toll. The toll was really hard on them. But anyway, the recovery was long. And the most frustration, frustrating thing was cognitive. My head wasn't right because I had, like, six concussions, you know, and you go to speech therapy for cognitive difficulties. I don't know if people know that out there. And then I was trying to start writing right away because it's been.

My whole life has been editing and writing. So I immediately wanted to start a novel. And what I found was, and, Merry, you're writing a novel so you'll know what I'm talking about. That there is a mental musculature that you have to hold the whole story in your mind while you're writing it, as opposed to.

It's a marathon.

Yes. And the longer. The closer to the end you are, the longer the hours are because. Because you sense that that omniscient view from high of above, that you're going to lose it. And that's why you start rushing, because you want to find out what's going to happen. Because as you probably found out, novels have a way of changing in the middle of them, you know, the heroine becomes the villain. Ness, you know, or, you know, things just happen. And I couldn't hold it.

I couldn't hold the story in my mind. And my old editor, who was wonderful, tried to help me, and she just said, laura, it. You know, it's just, you're going to have to give yourself more time. And I'm like, more time? What am I going to do? You know? Well, 10 years go by, ladies, and I haven't written any fiction. So nonfiction, for those of you out there who, if you have any cognitive challenges, understand that nonfiction with the facts in it provides lines for you in your writing. It's like doing a coloring book when you're doing nonfiction as opposed to that huge blank canvas for a novel. So there I was able to do, you know, some nonfiction writing. But I went to my 50th high school reunion at Darien High School in Darien, Connecticut.

And in high school, I was a real pain in the ass because I'd have a. I'd have a few beers or some wine, and then I'd say, everybody, stop. I Have a story I wrote, I want to read to you. And they'd all say, oh, God, Laura. All right, all right. And they would all sit there with their beer and wine and listen to me read a story I had written. And when I was sitting at the reunion looking at all these wonderful people that. I mean, my whole view of the world changed a lot after that accident.

And all these kids, they all thought I was going to die, so they wrote me these letters of farewell, told me all these secrets I didn't even know, but. And then I didn't die. Oh, my God. So.

And you had them all written down? Well, they wrote them to you, right? They texted.

It took me a long time. I still have trouble going back to read those because was very traumatic what happened. I mean, I got blasted out of my own life, you know, and it was fine when I thought I was going to be a gazillionaire, right? Because this guy was drinking after hours at some restaurant, but then he ran away to South America. So there went my testimony against the restaurant owners, so there went my millions of dollars. So then it wasn't so much fun.

So what happened at the. At the class for you? Tell us what happened.

The voice that you hear now, this is my ventilator voice. It's one vocal cord. And I used to be a very good public speaker, and that was part of my gig, you know, doing readings at bookstores and lectures and teaching classes about writing and. And at the reunion, nobody could hear me at this dinner because my voice doesn't carry. Excuse me. So when I went home, I was telling my other half how depressed I was because all I wanted to do was get up and say, all right, everybody be quiet. I'm going to read you a story I wrote just to make them all grow up.

And they would have gotten such a kick out of that.

Exactly. And my other half has been through all of this with me for 10 years, says Laura. Write them a story and read it to them as a podcast, and then they'll be able to hear you.

I love that. So I have a question for you about the podcast.

Yes.

And for listeners who don't know the format yet, how does a fictional podcast actually work?

Well.

And what makes it different from an audio book or even a radio play?

That's very good question. Because it's a hybrid of all of them. It is a creation of everything I've ever done in my life in book publishing and in writing and at the Newhouse School at Syracuse when I thought I was going into television. And that is. It's a cross between writing a novel, an audiobook, and an old time radio show those three put together. And Laura reading at a party because I'm still a ham. I mean, can't you tell? So what happened is I'm very familiar. I'm a big fan of Victorian literature.

And what a lot of people don't realize is people like George Eliot or Charles Dickens, but Charles Dickens in particular, he was serialized in Cornhill magazine. They'd publish a couple of chapters, he'd get paid, and then he'd go out and live his life. And then people would come up to him in the street and say, oh, I didn't like what you're doing to so and so, you know, some character. And he'd come home and he'd think, well, maybe I'll change that, you know. So then in the next three chapters he published, he got feedback again after it came out in the magazine. And this was the way he wrote his novels, with audience feedback right after he wrote it.

Are you doing that, too?

That's exactly. I'm writing in real time. Every week I write an episode. It's usually about, well, 25 to 30 pages, which is a lot, as you know. And then I record it, I read it, I do all the voices, which.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So what? With one vocal cord. But I gotta tell you, it is fun. And you get so into it. And then I get feedback from the audience about like, oh, man, that guy. What, that bully? Because it's a soap opera about teenagers in high school. I invented a town called Brighton. And we have these characters everybody knows.

And every week, you know, there's a new love triangle going on or a new scandal or, you know, somebody's cheating or taking steroids. And it's all happening before cell phones were invented.

Well, so it's taking place kind of in the 70s.

The 70s. It opens on the first day of my high school, which was September 8, 1971. And our characters are all 15 years old, and they're in the big high school. Nixon's president, right? There's an Attica prison uprising. John Lennon just moved to New York. There's all these things. It's this guy Rod Stewart with this raspy voice, singing about some babe named Maggie May.

It's like, what is this?

You know? And on TV there's this new show called all in the Family. And so, yeah, none of the kids can figure it out. They don't understand what's going on because it's like Soap Opera, videotape or something, you know, we don't. And so everybody's talking about all this stuff. So the culture of the times is very much a part of it. The fact that I love that. Well, the very first episode, the girls have to walk to school with one of the guys in the neighborhood. And they've never walked to school before.

They've always taken a bus, but the high school's nearby and they're tortured because they're 15 and so self conscious. And all the seniors and juniors are cruising by in their cars, right? And there they are walking with like the dorkiest guy in the whole school. They're stuck walking with him and they're just tortured about it. Well, one of the girls gets hurt, which starts the plot rolling. And you meet like the. The high school football star, you know, the hero, the absolute. You know, it's got the girls just gaga. Teddy, he's a senior, right? And he's there and you just meet everybody and you start meeting kids.

And in the first episode, I say before it, nobody try to remember all the characters. This is like real life. This is like. You just keep tuning in every week and you will get to know them. You'll have your favorites and you'll have ones that you don't like. And.

And when people are commenting and asking you questions or are criticizing or whatever they're doing, how are they doing that on the comments on YouTube or everywhere?

Mostly most Facebook, because it started out with my peers and we're all just 69, 70. Right. And they're there at Facebook. And so I did a little private group so that they wouldn't be so paranoid because nobody wants to post anything.

These are your high school cronies?

Yes. Right.

Yeah.

Well. And so they were very helpful. But then, ladies, I got. I'm looking that. I'm like, I don't even know anybody in Ireland these days or Indonesia. Who in Germany who's listening to me in Munich or Indiana.

Yeah, we're always amazed because we have listeners in India and we can't figure out how we got them. Yeah, we have someone in Botswana, but.

But they're learning English. They're learning English.

Yeah.

And they pay attention to your clothes and what you're doing. And in my podcast, what there is like, was there a life before social media? Young people are starting to tune in saying, well, that's why grandma's the way she is. She's like a. Not a hippie, but my grade, the classic graduating 74. We were the first girls who were told we could be whatever we wanted to be because the women's movement had just started. Gloria Steinem and they're marching in the streets for the era. Bill Black Pride has started. Basically, all the disenfranchised groups now are coming into vogue.

Everybody except the gay people. So that's a whole storyline in this. It's like, who's the closet cases? Because everybody was a closet case in 1971. And the young people are morbidly fascinated, and they go and they ask their parents, is this right? You couldn't.

That's great. There was great.

Nobody knew. And then their parents say, no, and they say, is it true that everybody smoked? And they say, yeah, they did. And everybody's parents drove drunk. Yeah, they did. But something really important and.

And my parents had a lot of friends that nobody drank. There was a whole segment of the population that wasn't into, like, alcohol is so prevalent now, and it wasn't as prevalent in a lot of areas. I have an entirely different question to ask you now.

Sure.

Because you spent so many years working inside the publishing world.

Yes.

So what originally drew you to that?

Completely by accident, I was going to do an interview at ABC Television in New York, where I grew up is a commuter town to New York. And so, like, my dad dressed like every other man on the train and left every morning, and all the wives stayed at home. But when I got out of college, I was supposed to get a job, so I was going to interview for a job typing soap opera scripts at ABC at All My Children, because I liked that one. And I was on my way there, and I came out of Grand Central, and I saw a guy from the Newhouse School at Syracuse, where I gone to school. And he said to me, you know, I was just at Doubleday. It's right around the corner, the editor in chief is looking for a secretary. And I'm thinking Doubleday. And I'm thinking, well, William F.

Buckley, Jr. And I'm thinking, that guy Stephen King and Victoria Holt and Alex Haley wrote that book. You know, it's like, what book? I didn't Doubleday publish. So I got all caught up in that, and I thought, so I end up going to Doubleday to apply for that job. And believe it or not, I got to talk my way in for an interview. And I had to take a typing test, though, first. But that's a whole other story. But while I was waiting in the reception area to meet Sandy Richardson, the editor in chief, Jackie Onassis, walked through the reception area.

Whoa. And the reception area says, Mrs. Onassis is an editor here. And I said, cool.

Yeah, no kidding.

So I went to. And I also should back up. I always wanted to be a writer, and I wanted to write novels, but I didn't think I had anything to say. So that's why I was going to go into soap operas.

Well, why not?

Yeah, exactly. So now all of a sudden, here I am at Doubleday. I got the job. I got hired. He liked the cut of my jib because I was the daughter of commuters. So I was dressed right, just tickety boo, right? I dress the part, and I was hired. And I ended up staying.

For how long?

Seven and a half years to learn a lot. But after three and a half years, through a series of things that happened, and Janet Leigh, who you look like Merry, was part of it because I was editing her autobiography. I had lucked into editing a lot of different books, and they promoted me and made me an editor, but they gave me an expense account. So off to lunch.

That's pretty nice.

Well, the unfortunate thing was I did drink a lot. So this expense account wasn't so good for me. And I ended up, when I was 27, thinking, well, I gotta do something. And even one of my authors said, laura, I'll take you to an AA meeting. And I'm like, oh, boy, this is bad, isn't it? And by that time, you know, I knew Jackie and everybody. And of course, in Jackie's family, there had been a lot of alcoholism, you know, in the Kennedy family. And she was very supportive about. Yes, you know, you've got to try.

You've got to find out who you were meant to be. You can't just throw your life away, right? And so I went to a meeting and I came home and I thought, well, what do people do at night that don't drink?

I guess they write novels.

I started writing for the first time since college, and I got the bug, Okay? I go to work. I'm not drinking anymore. So now, like, I really show up to work and everything, you know, I'm doing my job. And I was a good editor, I have to say. People always say, you know, you always say you were so crazy, but it was a very personal thing that I needed to stop it. And what happens when people who drank a lot, they stop drinking? The creative stuff comes flying in. So anybody who's an aspiring writer, if you've had any trouble in your background about, well, the drinking or maybe some tranquilizers or maybe, you know, that you have sort of an addictive personality. Understand that's a characteristic of a deeply creative person.

I was about to say you get addicted to writing.

Yes.

And I had another question for you that's a little bit of. A little different, but you once said something that confuses and intrigues me, which is, and I'm going to quote you, if you dread interacting with people, then send you the writer to do it for you instead. What does that mean? And can you elaborate on that?

Sure. When I suddenly found myself at the age of 30, becoming a novelist in that. You'll have to invite me back, ladies, for that part of the story. But I had to go on tour, and I wasn't drinking. It's like, how do you talk to people without a cocktail in your hand? I had no idea, truthfully. And somebody gave me a hint. It was actually an actress who said, laura, send Laura the novelist. And you just watch.

And I went in to my first television interview. I think it was like Fox and Friends in the morning in New York. I was terrified. And then I thought, all right, I'm going to send the writer, because I'd do anything for the writer, because that's who I want to be. And me, I'm just a messed up creative person. But the writer, I got to send her. I got to dress her up and push her out there and let her talk for me, and it works.

I get it. Because. And I get that you got that from an actor, because that's what actors. I'm an actor, and I. I do get very. Yeah, you're shy.

You are shy. Right.

Even though I'm. I'm kind of an extrovert, but I'm also shy. So if I have to go to something, I. I do have to be Cathy the actor instead of. Or I have to now have to be Cathy the podcaster, because now I can talk about that and I can be somebody separate. It is like that.

And you found that Persona once you started. Because I did watch your first episode. I had to just, you know, listen to your first episode. Had to. Oh, because I wanted to see what, you know, what you guys have been doing. And clearly you found your voice.

Absolutely. It's changed a lot.

And you. It. It brings you alive because both halves of you, the performing half, and you are the same person, just one shire. Right. But together, you're invincible. I also say, if you believe in God, put God in a chair, too, because that'll help you. You know, just bring everybody. You're not by yourself.

This life is meant to be lived to the fullest.

Yeah, I. I agree.

After my accident, when I found I could write a podcast, a story, I could write fiction again, I just haven't come down yet. I've been so. I've been given my life back, you know, so amazing.

Well, I wanted to ask you something else.

Sure. Ask me.

Because many aspiring writers. Imagine that editors quietly are editing manuscripts all day. But you've said that editors often do everything except edit during office hours.

That's all they.

What's really happening.

Yeah. And besides going out and having drinks for lunch.

Right. With somebody like Laura. Boy. Oh, watch out. You don't want that editor. They are. You have to visualize an editor as an air traffic controller. Well, you're in tv, right, Merry? You guys have the TV industry out there.

The executive producer. That's what the editor is. And that means all day in the office, they're on the phone and they're trying to get everybody to do their job so the books get produced correctly. Right. You've got these copy editors, you've got art directors. You know, you've got the sales force out in the field. You have the person selling to the chain stores like Barnes and Noble, which is different from a person who's selling to the independent shops. All these people.

Now you've got eight books at the same time that you're doing this for, okay? So that's all you. You do. The editors get in there at like 8 in the morning, and they'll leave at 7 at night. And then they'll go to parties and lunches. That's they do to acquire books, you know, to hear about books and get new ones in. But they're exhausted. And any writer who's looking for an in, please know if it's an agent or, or an editor. They're exhausted because their job is thankless.

And at night is the only time they can read and also edit. Usually they go away to edit. Book editors are really big on going to Long island on the weekends, and you can see them in places like Quag or Southampton. And they'll have a manuscript in their lap with good old pen. Right. If they're editing that way. Some edit on computers. But you'd be surprised how many people still like a manuscript in their hands.

And so they can flag things and flip back and forth thinking, no, you know, this part belongs up here. Editing is a. Yeah. And they. If you haven't that in your head when you visualize them, you know what you're like when you're answering the phone. And you are busy and overwhelmed and don't have time to breathe. Okay? So you speak to that editor like you understand, and you will. And you're in the door then.

You're in the door right then and there. Knowing as much as you can about the people on the inside of that ivory tower will help you get into it because they know that you've done your homework, you understand how the business works, and people can't read enough. You know, going down to your library, your librarian's probably your best friend because they know so much about publishing and they have all the subscriptions, like Publishers Weekly, you know, that comes out every week. You just sit down and you don't even have to read it. Just let it wash over you because the names will start to sink in. You're getting to know a huge industry, and it's all global now, so it's not like it's something easy to put your finger on. Random House, for example, is an arm of Bertelsmann, a German company, and they have bought 22 major publishers in the United States.

Wow.

So when you're talking about G.P. putnam, or you're talking about Knopf or you're talking about Pantheon or Doubleday or Delacorte or Dialogue or Fawcett, or, you know, you just go on. You go right through your shelves. Chances are it's one of the Bertelsman companies now.

And they also make film.

Well, they do. Because you know what? The Grant. The guy who started the Bertelsmann media empire was a POW in Arizona during World War II.

No kidding.

And he fell in love with the American culture. He fell in love with the music, the movies, the novels, all of it. And he has been buying it ever since.

Wow. I didn't know that. That's interesting.

And acquiring all those rights so that Arthur Conan Doyle has the same publisher as Ruby Fruit Jungle lady. Right.

I remember that. Milk, I have a big question for you for. And it.

It's.

It's. We're talking about the publishing industry in the publishing houses, but what about the agencies? How does someone go about getting a literary agent? And what steps do they need to take? Because, same thing, A lot of the doors of the publishing houses are close. Closed, unless you have an agent.

And agents will be your best friend. And let me tell you why. When all these companies got acquired, they laid off a lot of people because they were interested in the backlist. All the backlist of Stephen King. They wanted all his old books, and Stuart woods and Laura Van Warmer and whoever. And so there are layoffs every time they bought one of these houses. And the publishers, they became agents, real literary agents. These agents know how to edit.

These are former publishers, many of them. If you look online and you look at their biographies, you're going to say, oh, my God, this person was, you know, the head of Penguin. You know, this person was. Right. Discovered. Well, I don't want to, you know, go on, but you'll figure out who you want then. The major editors and publishers of the 1980s, 90s, 2000s, 2010, they're literary agents now.

Yeah. So what steps do they need? People need to get an agent because that's not so easy. That's why a lot of people self publish.

Right. Well, but that's all right, too. And we can talk about that a little bit because that's changed. There's no stigma to doing that. However, these editors who are there, they're still overworked, but now they have to make a living. They make a living by taking a percentage of what they sell for you. So the better you do as a writer, the more money they make. So they have every interest in finding new talent and help shaping them.

And they know every editor in New York. Right. To pitch to. And that's why you give them a percentage, because they know the right person for this book.

Are there any buzzwords or any ways to think about when you want to get an agent? What do you. Anything in your queries or your conversations with people that you need to say to pique someone's interest?

I do have a saying, and that is no tricking or trapping.

Yeah.

Truthfully, be who you are. If you're going to get an agent, this person needs to know you and needs to know they'd get along with you because it's too much work. You don't want an agent who doesn't understand what you've written. And you know, and I just throw this out, too, that look at your shelves at home, what books are like the one that you're writing. Right. Look at the acknowledgments. See who their agent was. See who.

If they mentioned their editor. Right. Suddenly you go from, I don't know what to do to, golly, it's all the same house as publishing the books like mine. I keep finding it here. You know that. And that will just give you such an education right there. An afternoon in the library, and so then you've got some real names to start doing research on.

Yeah. Well, what are some of the biggest mistakes that new writers make when they start approaching agents or publishers pretending there's somebody.

They're not pretending you can do something that you can't. Pretending like you know everything. Because everybody hates to know it all. Yep. People, editors are like podcasters. They like to feel part of the process. There's nothing better they like than bringing. Helping bring a book to life.

You know, when a manuscript goes into production, it usually takes around nine months before it's published at a publishing house. Not self publishing, but at a publishing house, it takes like.

So just like a pregnancy.

Yeah, yeah. And it. It's a wonderful process. And now for the self publishers, we'll say a word about this. I was telling you that I believe everybody needs an editor. I do. I think people need to read over your shoulder. For me now, it's My whole audience is reading over my shoulder.

Oh, we hate this part, but. Well, I'm encouraging fiction writers to try writing fiction. Podcasts express.

It's a great idea.

Yeah. There's plenty of room. And the only people who are doing any remote fiction as podcasts is horror and crime. Sci. Sci fi. But that's crime. True crime. They do.

True crime is very popular.

Right. But nobody's doing true crime fiction. I mean, they're not writing In Cold Blood as a novel.

Right.

They're not doing fiction that way. And I know, I understand why that is. And we won't go into it, except we've been programmed, you know, to think of genres and something goes well. So everybody's going to write the same thing. Right?

But that's the next frontier.

Well, yes and no. But there's only you and your vision and your time.

And nobody writes the same thing unless it's AI.

No. And when I tell people. When I was at Doubleday and I heard that Stephen King was signed up from a query letter, he wrote Doubleday in the slush pile, and they had to loan him bus money from Maine to come down and talk to them about being published.

Wow.

That's what publishing used to be. And there isn't an editor alive who isn't looking for that same thing to happen again. Stumbling on a different kind of talent. Now, mind you, you're going to want to market your book in a way that retailers understand where to put it. In a bookstore so that your readers can find you. You yourself. You're the one. That's you.

That's your soul. That's one book, and you go on to the next, and your voice will emerge. And that's what's saleable.

Yeah. You've Said the most valuable tool, a fiction writer that has something to say, steals from everyday life.

Absolutely.

Let's talk about that. And what's that tool?

Because, you know, writers don't go out. We're all home writing. We're the most boring people in the world.

Exactly.

Nothing ever happens in our lives. So when I go out to like a dinner party, everybody feels grilled. Right. I just was at a dinner party where the bishop of the Episcopalian Church of Connecticut was and I'm grilling him because he was in Israel when the war broke out.

Oh.

And I mean, I was sort of interested, but it's the author who wants to know because it was the author who went to the party because Laura hates going to dinner parties. So she sends the writer

love that, love that it's.

You absorb all of those because particularly if you're older than 40, you have real life experience and you know, when somebody's telling a story, you've been there, you felt what they did, it was just a different thing. But they're giving you new material, stuff that you research a little bit. And now you can write an authentic scene of what it's like to be shot at.

Yeah.

You know, by an Israeli jet on the Runway. You know, whatever it is, it doesn't happen to me because I never leave my study.

But the writer in the book, you can meet people who do, but the writer does.

And you send that writer out. You cannot go to enough lectures. You know, people like to go to movies and stuff. And I say, well, you know, it's the nonfiction stuff you need, you know, how to make up a story. If you were any good at skipping school in high school, you're a good liar. And probably, probably the beginning of a good fiction writer.

Well, you know, you've worked with many notable figures in publishing. So are there any famous authors or personalities you work with who made a lasting impression on you?

Oh, they all do. Any successful writer, you go behind the scenes. I think the biggest was I was kind of a. Not a snobbery about publishing, but I was published in hardcover, you know, at Doubleday. And so I was up here, right. And then I was met at one of the Beas. The best selling writers in the world is Nora Roberts. Nora.

Well, when I found out that all these people like Nora Roberts and Sandra Brown and Heather Graham, all these huge best selling writers, Tammy Hogue, they all started at Harlequin writing paperback originals because they were storytellers, but they needed to learn how to write and they had an editor at Harlequin. A lot of them had the same editors who helped shape them. And that blew my head off because I always kind of thought, well, it's just the gift comes from God. You can write. Right. And I look at what Nora does, or Danielle Steele. She was another one who started as paperback originals. And they were such a good lesson for me because they were mothers, they were housewives.

They didn't have time to be, you know, a college student walking the streets of New York, talking about how she works at a house where Jackie Onassis work. That wasn't their world. Their world. Baby needs diapers. I want to learn how to write fast. And they did. And the same thing is true for that witch out on Park Avenue. Me and, you know, Heather Graham with five kids, and that is we can tell a story.

We love stories.

Yeah. Well, you've suggested that writing fiction can be kind of self hypnosis, and I do agree.

Absolutely.

But what do you mean by that?

Well, you know what I mean by that, Merry. It means that if you're writing well, you're going to another world, and it's more real to you than anything that's going on right now at home.

Right.

And when you're developing characters for something like class of 74, where do they come from? Are they real people?

They just pop out of there?

Oh, they do.

Well, I pull from real life what's right with people. You know, how I'm talking about Danielle Steele or somebody, I want to know what is it that made her different? Her personality, that made her stick with it? What was right about her? Or your best friend who went through something really embarrassing, but she pulled it off with grace and style. Right. Learning what those are, that is the hard stuff to find, to create characters.

Yeah.

Okay.

And a lot of people want to create characters that are perfect, but those are the boring characters.

And that's the thing. How about villains? Or what's wrong? All you have to do is turn on the tv. What's wrong with people is everywhere. So you need a villain, you know, like a boy. Gosh, where can I find a boy to copy?

Oh, no, I wouldn't know.

But that is a universal figure. And so when I have a character I've created and she's very attractive. Okay. Or he's very cute. I've got this really cute guy, and I'm thinking, well, what would be interesting? Because he's got everything, this kid. He's a star athlete. He's this, he's that, and he gets

a couple of bullies yeah.

Take him out.

Yeah.

Tie him up.

Yeah.

Leave him in the snack bar of the football stadium for a couple of days.

Oh, right. Exactly.

That's where they came from. Yes.

Many of our listeners over 50 are thinking about creative projects, and you've certainly been inspiring to them. So you've kind of answered this question. But talk about how life experience actually makes someone a better storyteller.

Oh, absolutely. Because if in doubt, fall back on your experiences. You can rerun the movies in your head, but I really urge you to let yourself go into that imaginary world you've created, because then, for example, you have a hero who really wants something. Are you going to give it to him or aren't you? Right. That's a decision you may not make till the end of the book.

Right.

And the ending may change the whole book. Oh, man. Well, talk about the art of revision is very important for people to understand that you start these projects. But just like these interviews that you do on your podcast. Is the art the interview, or is it the editing out all the mistakes?

No, we rarely edit anything out.

We let it all hang out.

Well, that's because you guys are charming. So you see.

Thank you.

Good manners will get you everywhere.

Yeah. Podcast listening, speaking of that has exploded in popularity, how do you think listening to podcasts can enrich the lives of older adults? And I'm very interested in the answer to this question, because many of the older adults I know, I can't get them to.

To listen to a podcast. We all know what it is to listen. I get lessons on my Facebook page for people to get a lot.

We should, too.

You'll have more success getting seniors to listen to podcasts on their computer, on their PC than you will on their phone. And because they don't, they're not comfortable with it yet. I know podcast because I was in the hospital for so long and I was lonely.

I'm sure a lot of older adults can identify with that, too.

So I would put in my little earphones and I had my favorite shows, and I hear a voice at the same time every week, and I looked forward to it.

Well, a friend of mine came to visit, and she said, well, I want to listen to your podcast, but I don't know how to get it. I said, well. Well, where do you get your. You've got your phone in your hand. Where are you getting your music? It's right there. She said, I don't. I don't get it off my phone. I get it off the tv.

I turn on the High. The high number channels on the cable and that's where I get my music.

I'm like, oh, but see, that's why

it's a problem for old bloomers. Yeah, but that's why.

Because we are booming, as you know. Yeah.

Not. Not bloomers. Yeah, Boomers.

Boomers. The boomers. The late bloomer Boomers are the untapped market, too, for consumer market.

So.

Because people are. Can't reach them and it takes a while, but you have to understand, you're inventing ways to reach the unreachable. They're sick of everybody's cell phones at the table. Yeah, I don't want a cell phone in my bedroom, you know, that's the last thing I want.

Yeah.

Guess what? When they put in some earphones because their husband or wife is watching some crummy movie on tv, you can tune in your favorite hosts on Late Bloomers and Boomers. Boomers.

I'm sorry, I just don't want them to turn into the other podcast. We are the Late Boomers. Boomers.

All right, let's just change the title.

Yeah.

For all these episodes.

No, we've been branding it.

Let's tell them. Let's get them to all tune in. And for someone listening today who thinks I might have a story inside of me, especially those boomers, what do you tell them about? What advice do you give them about getting started.

For getting published, you mean? Or.

Or just getting started writing any creative project. Yeah.

Okay. Just do it. No.

And remember, remember, we have heard that before.

Well, the reason why is that courage is doing something despite the fact that you're terrified, you do it anyway.

Just take a small step. Right.

Doesn't matter what it is. It could be going down to the library tomorrow and just looking at the shelves of books about whatever it is that interests you.

Yeah.

You know, just putting your tiptoe in it. And the Internet, don't be as scared of your computer. Use it. It's a wide open world. There's lots of help there.

And for all the older people out there, just if not when, if not now, when?

Oh, exactly. You don't want to have regrets. And you've never been better. Trust me. You really. I know you feel like, oh, I'm old, I'm achy, I'm blah, blah, blah. Truth of the matter is, you know when you're up top up here, you know when you're good, you know what that time of day is that you should be doing creative work. And let me give you a hint.

It's probably not late at night, but who knows? Somebody may think that's right, but whether it's creating a model or building a shed or I don't care. Whatever it is that interests you, you do it and you feel good about it, but you don't expose yourself to the whole world while you're doing it because you don't want to be so self conscious that you can't do it. And that's what we all do. I don't know why that is. You know, we say, oh, I'm going to write a book. And then you say, okay, well, here, read this part. And then they don't seem very enthusiastic. And then you think, oh, I shouldn't be doing this.

I stink at that. Well, if you hang out at the library or talk to a librarian, they'll tell you, oh, all the writers in here say that that's a part of being a creative person.

It's great. Laura, this has been a fascinating conversation about storytelling and publishing and new ways to share creative work. Thank you.

And we really love hearing about reinvention and creativity, which is exactly what we've been talking about and what Late Boomers is all about.

Well, your community that you're creating by this podcast, your listeners and viewers need to do it in their own neighborhood. You guys, sign up your friends, you know, who wanted to be creative and do stuff and teach your friend how to listen. You know, perfect. They know how to do it and give them the link. Or do you have any kids in the neighborhood? Your grandkids? Will you please go tell your great uncle

how to listen?

Yes.

Yeah.

And not be afraid of the technology. Don't be afraid.

And to our listeners, to learn more about Laura Von Warmer and her fictional podcast, the class of 74, be sure to check it out wherever you listen to podcasts.

And if you enjoyed this. Yeah. And if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to Late boomers and on YouTube. On YouTube and wherever you get your palo. And leave a podcast if I can. Yes, leave a comment.

Tell Cathy and Merry what you really like about them, please. Just one thing. Oh, what is it about watching the show that really warmed your heart and thought, you know what? There might be something to this idea of community right online.

I love that.

Exciting.

Laura, very excited.

Well, you guys are exciting. You are.

I know you don't feel it. Thank you.

You feel tired.

Thank you, Laura.

And thank you, listeners for listening. And until next time.

Yeah, we all have to stay curious and everyone stay creative and keep embracing your next adventure and listen to podcasts.