Welcome to Late Boomers! We’re your hosts, Cathy and Merry, and this episode is one we’re especially excited to share with you. Today, we dive into the quiet yet powerful world of poetry, exploring how it can help us process life’s biggest challenges and find hope—even in the midst of chronic illness.

Our conversation features Autumn Williams, poet and author of the deeply moving book Clouds on the Ground. Autumn’s journey with myalgic encephalomyelitis (chronic illness) led her to poetry as an outlet, a form of escape, and a way to help others process their own struggles. Her perspective and her work remind us that beauty and resilience can flourish against the toughest odds.

We start by reflecting on how poetry slows us down, encourages introspection, and gives voice to experiences that are hard to explain. Autumn shares how being bedbound sparked her love for free verse poetry, a style that felt liberating when her life was so restricted. She talks about writing poems that, while inspired by personal pain, are universal enough for anyone to find themselves in.

Autumn reads several poems from Clouds on the Ground, and we discuss the remarkable imagery, the art on her book’s cover, and the role of nature in her healing. She describes her creative process, balancing writing with being a parent to six children, and how she reclaimed agency and meaning through writing. We also touch on the self-publishing process, building a creative team, and how responses from readers have truly touched her.

Key Takeaways:

1. Poetry can be a powerful tool to process emotions, loss, illness, and dreams.
2. Free verse opened up creative freedom for Autumn, and helped her escape the confines of chronic illness.
3. Her poems are intentionally written to be universal, allowing readers to insert their own stories and struggles, and find comfort and hope.
4. The journey of self-publishing involves building the right team, taking your time, and honoring your voice and vision.
5. Autumn’s experience reminds us to honor pain, sit with it, and recognize value in ourselves even when life doesn’t go as planned.
6. The feedback Autumn received shows the transformative power of sharing our stories, and how art can truly move others.

If you’re seeking inspiration or healing, we encourage you to explore Autumn’s poetry. You can sign up for her newsletter to receive her chapbook Waves for free, and check out Clouds on the Ground for her full collection of poems.

Subscribe to Late Boomers wherever you listen to podcasts, share this episode with a friend who could use some encouragement, and visit our website at lateboomers.us for more episodes and updates. Until next time, keep learning, creating, and making bold moves at every age!

— Cathy & Merry

Mentioned in this episode:

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Hello and welcome to Late Boomers, the podcast where we celebrate curiosity, creativity, and the bold choices people make in the second half of life.

I'm Cathy Worthington, and I'm Merry Elkins. Today we're talking about something that has a quiet power but a profound impact: Poetry feels especially meaningful right now.

It slows us down. It asks us to sit with words instead of racing past them.

Yeah, that's so true. And for so many people, especially as we get older, poetry becomes a way to process life and loss and illness and love and resilience.

Exactly. Poetry gives voice to what's hard to express Explain Out Loud.

We are thrilled to welcome poet Autumn Williams, author of Clouds on the Ground.

Autumn, welcome to Late Boomers. We're so glad you're here.

Absolutely, it's an honor. I appreciate it.

So, Autumn, how did your experience with chronic illness lead you to poetry?

Yeah, I, um, I have myalgic encephalomyelitis and I had had it for a few years and it got worse and I became bedbound, um, almost entirely bedbound. And it was a struggle. And after a year of being bedbound, I, I started writing poetry as a way to process emotions and as a form of escape, depending on the type of poems I was reaching for in those moments. It just— I just kept writing. I just fell in love with it, and I just kept going.

Yeah.

Well, what drew you to free verse poetry?

I think that being very limited, it had me reaching towards something not limited. And I remember when I started writing poems, I, I thought Am I allowed to write whatever I want? Like, can a poem be anything? Because there's so many different forms. And I looked it up and it was free verse poetry and you could do whatever you want. And that just made me so happy. And I just, I did, I did whatever I wanted. And a style came from that. It is free verse. It has a rhythm and a flow.

My poems do, but no rhymes and no set form. And it was a, it was a freeing thing to do.

I was about to say that. Yeah, it's a whole lot different, a whole lot different than writing a sonnet. Yeah, that's very true. But it also— no censorship. Yeah. Yeah. Which is usually self-censorship. But, um, your poetry comes from personal experience, but it does speak to universal themes? How do you bridge that gap?

I write in a way that is based on my life, but I write it to be universal. So I found that writing my specific experiences, it just sort of zapped me and I didn't like it. I liked to escape more, uh, just into nature or into analogies. So I write in a way that people can read the poems and put their own life into them, their own experiences. So whatever loss they're feeling or whatever hardship, they can, they can see it in the poem. So, you know, lost health becomes lost dreams or lost love. And, you know, there's themes of hope and resilience within the, within the overall work that people can see. to find peace in them.

But I, I really like helping people and I found the most, um, joy really in writing in a way that I thought could help the most amount of people. So it is, you know, if you have a chronic illness, you could read the work and, and you would see it. But if you're struggling with something else, very healing for you. It was healing for me. Yes, definitely.

Well, tell us a little bit about your chapbook called Waves.

Yeah, so I have, um, it's a little poetry book and it's just free if they sign up for my newsletter. They can unsubscribe if they just want the book, but it's, um, it's about the ocean and it, it's an analogy overall of what chronic illness takes from life. But, you know, there's themes of hope and just a lot of ocean imagery, things like that. I used to live by the ocean and I really love it. So that is, that is Waves.

Yes, you really did get to escape with that. Well, what about your book Clouds on the Ground?

That is my full-length book. And, um, so that's the one that I'm selling and Clouds on the Ground, the subtitle is Poems on Time, Loss, and Dreams, and that really covers the whole of it. But there are other things within it that can fit into any of those subthemes. A lot of nature poetry is in there. I do visit the ocean in Clouds on the Ground, but I visit the desert, I visit the mountains, and I venture into dreaming and things like that.

Little world tour. That's kind of fun.

Yeah. Do you live near any of those places?

Yeah, a lot of what I write, um, I either live near now or I used to live near. I've moved a lot.

Where are you now? Where are you based?

I'm in Amarillo, Texas.

Ah, yeah. So what inspired the title of your book, Clouds on the Ground?

When I was— this was before I was writing poetry, but I was, um, I was at my sickest. I was having a hard time falling asleep and I just, I was in a lot of pain and I did a lot of visualizations at that time to just, because I couldn't really move a lot. Um, and at that time my body just was shut down and like I went into a protective state. I couldn't even imagine walking. And that would happen sometimes when I was really sick. And at that time I was trying to visualize flying into clouds, just a flying sort of escape to just calm my mind down so I could fall asleep. And I couldn't even picture lifting upwards. And the idea came to me to picture the clouds on the ground surrounding me.

So, um, I did that, that thought that had come to me, and it was really comforting. To just imagine, okay, I'm not flying, I'm not moving, but here are the clouds. It's soft, it's, you know, peaceful, it's beautiful. And it worked and I fell asleep. So I added that to my visualizations. And when I was putting the book together, I remembered that and clouds on the ground and it became a poem about the experience that's in the book. But the whole title just, it symbolizes every poem within the book. And the idea of clouds became something more, um, because the book talks about, um, hope and the fact that the idea that what we're searching for, we might get in this life or the next, but eventually we'll be whole, we'll be healed, or we'll, you know, find lost loved ones or, or our dreams will be fulfilled.

So the clouds represent good things. And maybe they'll be heaven clouds, but while we're on the earth, we can pull them down to us and have our earth clouds as we need them.

Oh, I love that image.

I do too. I do too. I would love to hear maybe one of your favorite poems from Clouds on the Ground. Can you read us one in your own voice?

Yeah, absolutely. And I know we had talked about that. You had mentioned maybe wanting to— oh, here's the book. Yeah.

Beautiful.

This is Clouds on the Ground.

Yeah, the art is so beautiful.

It is. Tell us about the art a little bit before you read.

Yeah, so Drew Clark is my illustrator. He did an amazing job. This is the wraparound cover. I just— I love what he did. I told him what I wanted, and he just He made it so beautiful. So we've got mountains and they're up in the clouds, so you can see clouds at the base of the mountain. Like you're walking, you can walk through the clouds and above them, and then the bare trees and on the mountain. But he did such an amazing job.

The poem that I'll read for you has an illustration. He illustrated it too. So this is—

tell us what it is. This is for our audio listeners.

Yes, it's a bridge from one pond to the next. It's a place I found. It had a bunch of ponds, um, and it was really cool. So this is, um, one of the poems that I'll share with you. I did prepare 3. They're relatively short. Um, good. Would you like me to read this first or tell the story first?

Uh, either way you want, whichever you think is more effective.

Okay, um, so this is Um, when I was first sick before I was bedbound years before that, and, um, I was having just a hard time processing not being healthy. And I had this desire to go somewhere I hadn't been before. So I was just driving around and I found this park that I hadn't been before. And, um, I walked around it and it was just a way to sort of clear my mind. And there's no memories attached to this place. It was, it was beautiful. Um, you know, I was sick and in pain and it didn't, it didn't make that stuff go away, but it, it made it lighter a little bit. It built something in me to just have that, um, escape into nature can be therapeutic.

So here's the poem. Um, a lot of my poems are untitled. This one is, um, I went looking for a place that I had never been before, somewhere quiet to walk by myself with no memories attached. I found a park with clearings between the trees covered in soft grass and a long bridge connecting two ponds. I imagined as I crossed the bridge from water to water that I was escaping into a different time. I love that.

That is so beautiful.

It Thank you.

And it was so descriptive and detailed. It really was so touching. I don't know about you, but every day if I find something new, it makes me happy.

Yeah, I agree with that. I just, I picked that one. It is one of my favorite ones. Um, just that there can still be good things that we haven't found yet, even in our hard times.

Including poetry.

Yes. Yeah, definitely reading it, writing it.

Give us a couple more.

Yeah, this one, um, is also untitled. It's, um, about dreams. As I fall asleep, I look for time. Black and stars drift. Yesterdays and now combine. Old journeys recur into the new. Life stays In dreams. So that one is just, uh, you know, you can find another life in your dreaming sometimes.

That can be a good escape.

Beautiful. Beautiful.

Thanks.

Do you have another?

Yes. So one last one that I'll share with you guys, also untitled actually. Um, the years seem endless, but they are not. There is a place without time where we will all be together. The wait, I think, is half over. So that one speaks to, you know, our loved ones that we're waiting for being on Earth. Sometimes it seems like a long time, and sometimes we realize, oh, you know, we're getting closer. It won't be forever.

Well, I still like to think it is.

Well, we never know. What time it is, you know.

Yeah, we don't, which is a good thing, a very good thing. Well, thank you for that. Moments like this remind us why poetry really does matter.

There's such tenderness and strength in your work, and thank you for sharing it.

Thank you.

So on a different note, what does your creative process look like while you're managing chronic illness and Family taught— family ties. How many children do you have?

6 children.

I don't know how you do that. How do you do that? And also writing. I mean, that takes time and thought too.

Yeah. Well, um, I would say at this point I'm partially bedbound, so I have, uh, more functioning. I've been trying very hard to heal. Uh, there's no cure for what I have, but I'm always always trying new things to get better. Um, there's a less than 5% chance that I can heal, so I'm very much determined to be in that group. Um, but as far as just our lives, um, you know, my husband works from home and he does a lot. He's amazing. He is very helpful.

And the kids are older. It was definitely harder when they were younger. Um, they're all—

how long have you been married?

20 years.

Oh, congratulations, because it's really young for young children to understand that, that moms can't do that for them because they see maybe somebody else's mom doing stuff that maybe you can't do. So how do you balance that?

Yeah, um, I mean, we had some books when they were little, just little picture books about, um, a mom being bedbound. We talked about the things that we could do. Just, it's like, okay, I can't take you to the park today, but Dad can, and you can come talk to me. You know, I had more time to talk with them versus if I had been a busy mom running here, there, and everywhere. But, you know, we just, you settle into what's given to you. You kind of have to do it. So now that they're older, It's easier. They're at school, you know, and I have time during the day.

So, I will reach for poetry when I have some good mental clarity. And just, I don't know, it's worked out. We're very blessed.

Well, how has poetry helped you reclaim agency or meaning during difficult times?

Yeah, it's definitely empowering to be able to do something in my limits. I can do it laying down in bed. Um, I can, you know, find therapy in it myself. I can say, you know, I'm gonna, you know, with a book that was, that was my, um, biggest thing. I was so scared to publish, but I was like, I can help people with this, you know, by sharing what I've gone through, um, and also just like to show my kids that we can, you know, we can do hard things, we can live our dreams. Um, and I think that's the thing, like I had to let go of a lot of dreams, you know, that I can't do now. I wanted to be a teacher. Um, I can't do that.

Um, I wanted to write novels and I don't know that my— because a lot of the— it's a lot of brain fog. So, um, Poetry is something that I can do, something that is gentle for me and fulfilling.

Do you dictate it or do you write it?

Oh, I was going to ask that too. That's great.

I do write it. Yep. Um, I actually, as I'm editing it, I'll read it out loud to make sure it sounds okay, but usually I'm writing it first.

Do you, um, do you read other people's poetry as well?

I do. I do read other people's poetry. I enjoy poetry a lot. Um, I'm on Instagram and I follow a lot of poets and, you know, big ones, small ones, just there's so much good poetry out there. I love all the different forms. Um, it's beautiful and it's easy because I can read a little bit, you know, when I'm doing really well, I can read a lot. I can read a book, but not all the time. Um, And I can read poetry often, more often than, like, you know, something with a high reading level or, you know, a big thick book.

Yeah. You mentioned self-publishing. That's a lot of work. How has that process been for you?

Yeah, it's been really good. I can do it on my own time. So it took a long time. Um, I took all the time I needed and it's really accessible to anybody. Back, you know, before we had print on demand, you had to buy a bunch of books and you didn't know if you'd sell them. So you just have this huge stack sometimes just sitting in your garage or whatever. But now you don't have to do that. You just, you know, you upload your book and then people go online and they order it and then the companies will print it as they order it.

Um, so it's actually fairly simple, but I did do a lot of, um, I did some classes, I read some books, I have marketing, book marketing coach, and I learned a lot in the process.

Yeah, you were mentioning earlier before we recorded that you have built a team for yourself. So how did you know who you needed on your team to work through the process?

Yeah, I mean, I, um, some research, but I have my illustrator and he's awesome. And then I have, uh, my book marketing coach, uh, his name's Derek Depker. And I, I liked his stuff because, um, it, it actually spoke to a lot of my anxieties. I was like, how do we get book reviews? And he had a class on that and, um, he goes into the psychology of things, which I find fascinating. And then I also have my editor, Shelby Lee, and she is a a very well-known poet. So it was amazing to get her to edit. I went on a bit of a journey with the editing. I had a couple of editors before I found her.

And they just wanted to change my work into something completely different. And it was a learning experience. But I thought, I need to publish what I've written. And so I found her. And just reading about what she did, I thought she might, you know, she wants to edit what you have, it seemed anyway. And I was right. I got her to do mine and she edited what I had. She made it better.

She found the mistakes. She had some good suggestions that kept the style that I had. So it was really awesome. But it was a journey to find these people. Even the illustrator, like, I took a little while looking around and I found him and that was so exciting. Because I really like his work and I thought it complemented my poems to— for what they are. Um, and so just surrounding myself with this team made my book so much better than it could have been on my own.

Oh, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, I recommend having a team. I remember working with my, um, book marketing coach and he helped me do the introduction because, um, it's sort of Talks about, um, where the poems came from, why I write them the way I do, how they can help people. And he, he really helped me put it in a way that, um, would capture people's attention and things like that. So I just, yeah, I look at my book before these people and then after these people, I'm like, this is, you know, this is really exciting to have something this good that they helped me reach.

Was that a long process finding people?

A little bit. I mean, it took a handful of months, but I wasn't going fast. I was doing it as I had energy. So I don't know if I was healthy and had, you know, a lot of time, if it would have gone a lot faster or not.

But yeah, yeah, because you have spoken to us about how you have time because you're in bed, but then you're in bed, you're not feeling well a lot of the time, so you can't use that time the same way that somebody else would. So it's really interesting how you've capitalized on that, and it's a good plan for other writers and authors to, to know they need that team.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And I assume you hear from readers, and I would like to ask you, what responses from readers have surprised or moved you the most?

Yeah, I was, well, I was going to say one thing, but this other experience, I won't go into detail because it was a private message, but they told me how the poems affected their life in a very positive way. That, um, it was very fulfilling. It was very, um, I don't know, it just grabbed my heart to know that it could have helped some, someone that way. Um, but the, the first one that I was going to start with that I didn't was I was reading my reviews and someone on Amazon and someone said that I was one of their favorite poets and I was like, oh my gosh. That was really cool to be somebody's— in their favorites, because there's so many good poets out there.

Oh yeah, there's a song in a Broadway musical, I forgot where it is, it's kind of an obscure thing, but it's, it's, I'd rather be somebody's favorite thing than I'd rather be 9 people's favorite thing, you know, that's, than the masses, because you You can't be the favorite thing for everybody, but if you can be 9 people's favorite thing, it's pretty cool.

Yeah, it really, really is. And you know you're making a difference because it's so personal. And that said, how do you hope your poetry helps readers navigate their own challenging times? You touched on it a bit, but If you can elaborate.

Yeah, with Clouds on the Ground, um, I really wanted to give out this idea of sitting with people in their pain because I feel like a lot of the times we're, we're told to get over things or just move on quickly. And sometimes to just have someone to sit with you and say, hey, this sucks and it's happening and I know it's happening And, you know, I'm here for you. And just that's it. Instead of saying, here's how we can get better. Here's how we can move on. And I mean, of course we, we should reach for, you know, moving on or not moving on, but for hope and healing and, you know, some things we need to leave behind, but there are times that deserve to be honored when it's hard and it's not time to let go just yet. So I really tried to put that into Clouds on the Ground. Um, I think with chronic illness, knowing that it, you know, it— a lot of people, most people don't heal in this life, and that can be a hard concept for other people trying to help them.

So my own experience of, hey, this is still happening, um, it made its way into the book. But not in a, not in a hopeless way, not in a, not in a pitying way or a nothing will ever get better way, but just in a gentle way, like this idea of comforting people in their hard time and validating them. So I, I put that in the book to reach people in that way. Well, also there is hope there, but I feel like hope can be most easily accessed when people recognize and are there to comfort us and hold us in those hard times.

Well, you are very gentle yourself. Were you a different person before you became ill?

Yes and no. Uh, definitely yes. Um, as far as your things that are thoughts and yeah, definitely. It's a very life-changing thing for me. I had to go on this journey of self-acceptance. Um, I've always seen value in other people, but to find value in myself in that moment where I was at my sickest and just not really useful at all, to like find, um, okay, I have value because I'm a person. You know, and that's it. We're people, we have value.

We don't have to put anything into the world to have value. And I guess I already knew that, but to apply it to myself was a new concept. Um, and just finding, you know, I always had this plan for my life. It was very laid out. It was always there and I had to adjust it and change it. And that, that changes your thought processes.

Yeah, absolutely. Autumn, thank you for sharing your voice and your poetic voice as well, which is the same, and thank you for sharing your story with us.

Yeah, your poetry reminds us that honesty and beauty often live side by side. We're so grateful that you joined us.

Thank you so much.

Very grateful. And you've been listening to Late Boomers. Please subscribe, share, and find us wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.

And until next time, keep learning, keep creating, and keep making bold moves at every age.

Thank you.