In this episode, Erica is joined by Katie Rössler, relationship strategist and couples counselor, to talk about what perimenopause is really doing to our relationships.

Katie shares what she sees when couples come to her — almost always in roommate mode, functioning well as a household but emotionally disconnected. She talks about how perimenopause becomes the catalyst that forces couples to do the deeper work, why both partners need to understand this season of life, and what shifts when the person who has always kept the peace finally starts to wake up.

This is a conversation about relationships, identity, and why midlife might be the most important portal you'll ever walk through — together.

Katie Rössler hosts the weekly podcast Relationship Reset and works with couples who have been together more than ten years. Find her at katierossler.com.

Website: https://www.katierossler.com

Podcast: https://www.katierossler.com/podcast

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katierossler

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RelationshipResetwithKatie

-----

Book your Life Patterns Review here.

Follow me on Substack: https://substack.com/@ericavoell

Get the latest email newsletter: https://ericavoell.com/newsletter

Connect with me: erica[at]ericavoell[dot]com

Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ericavoell.coaching/

Welcome to the Unfolding Podcast, a space where we explore what

2

it looks like to really trust yourself,

say no without guilt, and live your

3

life like it actually belongs to you.

4

I am Erica Voell, a Decision Mentor

and Inner-Trust Guide, and I help

5

women in midlife untangle from the

life patterns of shape shifting

6

and keeping everyone else happy.

7

Claim how they are uniquely

designed to make decisions and

8

understand their unique strengths.

9

Using human design as a lens, we clear the

noise of conditioning so their no feels

10

powerful and their yes feels true, and

they can move forward without self-doubt,

11

guilt, or the pressure to prove anything.

12

On this show, we have honest

conversations about self-trust boundaries.

13

Energy and identity, especially for women

in midlife who are done living by the

14

shoulds and second guessing themselves.

15

If you've taken every personality test,

followed the recommended path, and still

16

can't shake the feeling that you've been

spending your whole life trying to fit in

17

when what you really wanted was to belong.

18

You're in the right place.

19

You'll hear stories, insights,

and tools rooted in human

20

design, coaching, and real life.

21

Not to tell you what to do, like

another self-help book, but to help you

22

really hear yourself so you can stop

overthinking and start making decisions

23

that feel grounded, clear, and true.

24

Today we have a special guest.

25

Katie Rössler has spent 20 years in the

therapy world and focuses on relationship

26

strategy, but what she really does is

coaches, guides, mentors, and walks

27

beside couples who are ready to rebuild.

28

She fights for your relationship with

you while speaking the truth you both

29

need to hear, so real growth can happen.

30

Her approach blends practical

tools with a holistic lens always

31

grounded in deep empathy and clarity.

32

Katie will make you laugh.

33

Help you trust your own voice

again and guide you to tune out

34

that noise of what others say you

should do because they are not you.

35

She has authored two books, the Face of

Grief, and Giving Birth to Motherhood.

36

She's spoken on stages internationally

supported companies like BCG and, Celonis

37

and Amazon through workshops and trainings

for their teams and host the weekly

38

podcast relationship reset for couples who

have been together for more than 10 years.

39

Katie and I connected through our

human design coach, and I was recently

40

part of her Behind the Transformation

Summit, and we hit it off instantly.

41

She's such a delight and I think you're

gonna find this conversation to be one

42

that touches a nerve with women in the

best way, and it's one you're gonna

43

wanna come back to for a second listen.

44

So welcome Katie to the Unfolding podcast.

45

I'm so glad you're here.

46

Katie Rössler: Thank you, Erica.

47

I'm really looking

forward to our chat today.

48

Erica Voell: Yeah.

49

So tell us what you do and about

you and how you ended up working

50

with the people that you work with.

51

Katie Rössler: Yeah, so I'm a relationship

strategist and couples counselor.

52

Um, I've been licensed for.

53

Almost 20 years.

54

And um, I work with high achieving couples

who've been together for over 10 years,

55

and they're feeling like roommates.

56

And they talk a lot of logistics

and not so much love anymore.

57

And I teach them how to have better

communication and connection and start

58

to get vulnerable again with each

other, but in a way that feels safe,

59

rather than feeling like, oh, this

could be used against me later on.

60

Um, and I live in Munich, Germany.

61

Uh, I'm a mom of three kids.

62

I married a German, that's

why I moved over here.

63

Everybody always asks

military, and I'm like, no.

64

But I was a military kid.

65

So yes, in my past.

66

Now I just married a German.

67

That's why we're here.

68

Um, and I am.

69

Create, um, groups and do one-on-ones

with couples as well as I have

70

specifically a perimenopause community

called Behind the Transformation where

71

we talk about things other than just

symptoms and more of the identity

72

changes and the shifts we feel in our

relationships during this time as well.

73

Erica Voell: Hmm, I love this.

74

And so you said you moved to Germany.

75

When did you move to Germany?

76

I'm curious and like how did things shift

for you personally and did you notice

77

a difference in how you're experiencing

midlife and relationships there?

78

Katie Rössler: Yeah, great question.

79

So we moved here, it'll be 10 years

in June and um, it was something

80

we always knew we were going to do.

81

I was pregnant with our second, which is

like the perfect time to move countries.

82

Pregnant with a toddler.

83

Um, and you know, it's a great

question about like going through

84

midlife in another country because

I don't know what it's like in my

85

home country to go through midlife.

86

I only know what it was like

to go through up until 31, 32.

87

Uh, I will say the challenges I'm

facing right now is more along.

88

The lines of like, what's culturally

okay to talk about or not, right?

89

Like with, with the German friends,

like what are they comfortable with?

90

Thankfully, they're just like many others,

they're waking up to learning more.

91

They're desiring to learn more.

92

Um, but I would say those who are about

five to 10 years older than me are not

93

always so comfortable to talk about it.

94

Um, there's also sort of a feeling of

like, I just have to create my tribe.

95

Rather than try to find a tribe

here, uh, to go on this walk.

96

And I think that's, that's been

something though, that's kind of part

97

of my design and nature since I was

little and moving around all the time.

98

You kind of had to create your community

and your, your tribe and your group.

99

Um.

100

I would say that pieces that I think are

a little more difficult is, you know,

101

there's some things that I know that I

want to have to support me in this phase

102

of life, health wise or emotionally,

mentally, and sometimes those things are

103

either harder to find or to translate

into what is it here and where do I find

104

it, and who do I have to go to to get it.

105

So it kind of makes the ease

of, of getting those resources,

106

uh, a little more of a pain.

107

And so of course that stops you from

being like, let me just go get that.

108

You know, that thing that I, I read

about that will support me, whether

109

it be a supplement or whatever, right?

110

And you're like, oh, I have to order it.

111

I have to this and blah, blah.

112

That piece has been challenging for sure.

113

Mm-hmm.

114

And are you finding that women,

German women are just experiencing

115

things differently from what you're

seeing in the US and other countries?

116

No, I would say it's

probably about the same.

117

'cause when I talk to my, uh, American

friends, there's definitely sort

118

of this age gap of when people are

willing to talk about perimenopause

119

and menopause and feel comfortable

about discussing, getting older.

120

There's absolutely, you've got the,

like the two camps here, right?

121

The like, I'm gonna go get Botox and I'm

gonna get my lips done and all this stuff.

122

'cause I'm not, I don't want to age.

123

And then you've got the, like I'm

anti all of that, all natural,

124

you know, no hormone support.

125

Um, I like to be in that

middle camp of like.

126

Hey, let me just figure it out as I go.

127

Uh, but I, I, but I've heard that

that's happening in the states too,

128

where it's like, you know, everybody's

this way or everybody's like, all

129

natural fitness route, this thing.

130

And it's like, what about the people

that are just like, a little bit

131

of this, a little bit of that,

you know, you know, pepper it in.

132

Let's see.

133

Um.

134

Yeah, so I would say as far as the German

friends, it's been me talking about it

135

and me putting it on my podcast and me

hosting events that has opened their eyes.

136

And I would say this year alone,

I've had two or three friends say,

137

thank you so much I would not have

known because my, my other German

138

friends are not talking about it.

139

And when we do talk about it, you

can tell it's very like either

140

anti this pro this, there's not a

like, let's just have a discussion.

141

You know, let's just

talk about what we think.

142

Um, so the resources, again, I

built my tribe, but I also, I find

143

the resources and I create the

things that I realize that I need.

144

And it's actually helping the friends here

who don't really have that voice just yet.

145

Erica Voell: Mm.

146

I love that.

147

So tell me about how you are bringing

that into the perimenopause, into the room

148

with a couple that you're working with.

149

Yeah, if they've, whether or not

they've named it or if it's even

150

something they've considered about

how it's affecting their relationship.

151

'cause I know for me, like

I thought I was going crazy.

152

I thought I was the one who was

like, why am I so irritable?

153

And why do I just wanna, why

do I hate everybody today?

154

Like I just wanted to get in

the car and drive far and not.

155

Not talk to anybody.

156

And like I thought I was the one

going crazy and then I learned about

157

perimenopause and it was like, oh my gosh.

158

Okay.

159

There's a reason I'm feeling this way.

160

And I know you've talked about the

caterpillar and the chrysalis and it

161

just like, we just turned too mush mush.

162

Yes.

163

So tell me more about working that,

bringing that in with couples work.

164

Katie Rössler: Yeah, it's, it's

interesting, I've been writing more

165

and more about this on LinkedIn, um,

to, to push some buttons because I say

166

it's a journey you're both going on.

167

So you both need to be educated.

168

You both need to be aware because whether

you know whether it's your body or not.

169

You're along for the ride.

170

The emotions are there.

171

The silence, the, the hot flashes in

the night and the elbow in the face,

172

wake up, you know, like it we're, we're

on it together and it's very much, I,

173

I think of it like with my husband,

you know, when we moved to Germany, he

174

went through reverse culture shock and

he's also hit burnout a couple times

175

where it's really impacted his health.

176

Yeah, that's been a journey

I've had to go on with him.

177

It's not something that's just

his, so this is my journey

178

that he gets to go on with me.

179

Just like when I lost my mother and

dealt with that grief as much as we

180

were co grieving, it was my mother.

181

So it was even more of my own journey.

182

It is not a journey going alone.

183

So I always tell couples

that from the beginning.

184

Once I can identify, yes, she's in

that phase of life, or she's not

185

aware of it yet, but I'm gonna slowly

add little, oh, have you talked

186

to your gynecologist about this?

187

Oh, the sleep problems?

188

Oh, the memory loss.

189

Oh hey, you know, the things that

you guys are discussing in session

190

that's actually causing fights.

191

Has a hormonal reason.

192

It, it has a neurological reason and

they're both like big-eyed, like what?

193

Especially the sleep.

194

I've had multiple clients

where I've had to say, one, I

195

really encourage you to go get.

196

Checkup with your gynecologist

and talk about the symptoms.

197

And second, go get a sleep study

because your lack of sleep, good,

198

consistent sleep is causing high levels

of anxiety and paranoia, which is

199

also being exacerbated by estrogen and

progesterone, like jumping all up and

200

down like a wild rollercoaster, right?

201

And so no wonder your partner feels like

they can't do an either ring, right?

202

And no wonder they're escaping.

203

And no wonder, and it's not to like

point the finger like you're the

204

problem, but it's, hey, these symptoms

are exacerbating your ability to

205

show up as the partner you wanna be.

206

And it's creating a system

where you lash out in such a way

207

which is not typical for you.

208

But that your partner really, like, I

can coach him all day long on how to,

209

how to sit with that when I, you know,

I hate you or you can't do anything

210

wrong, you failed me every time.

211

Right?

212

Like those things, I can coach him on

it, but wouldn't it just be nice if

213

like we could have a little more control

over those pieces of us, or a better

214

understanding of like, I'm about to say

the thing, I should stop, but when you're

215

only getting four hours of sleep a night.

216

You know, and you're not

getting any type of support.

217

I like, I, I'm really great at what

I do, Erica, but I cannot fix that.

218

Like, that's the piece where

I'm like, I can't help that.

219

So I've even had, you know, couples

who've been like, a few of them been

220

like, let's get that taken care of

before we go any deeper into this.

221

Because sometimes we create.

222

Deeper wounds.

223

Mm-hmm.

224

And, and, and a deeper meaning to

things because of what we're going

225

through in this face of life than

what we would like, Hey, yeah.

226

It's a problem.

227

It's kinda like when we were, you know,

when you're on your period and you've got

228

like, you're like PMSing right before,

and so everything feels a little, your

229

nervous system heightens everything.

230

Like that's it almost every day.

231

Yeah.

232

So.

233

Hey, let's do some things to support.

234

Let's make sure you're getting the sleep.

235

Let's get a little exercise in there.

236

Some sunlight would be amazing.

237

Check your vitamin D, you know,

if you don't wanna do HRT,

238

like, okay, what other things?

239

And now let's start working on things.

240

Mm-hmm.

241

And I find that the couples,

the women who really take it

242

seriously and say, you know what?

243

I gotta own my stuff.

244

And the men who take it

seriously, you know what?

245

I cannot keep bringing work home.

246

I gotta find some good stress outlets.

247

I gotta go to sleep on time.

248

I gotta do some healthy things and

take, do some sport and I gotta

249

go get my hormones checked too.

250

'cause reality check, they're

going through stuff too.

251

Mm-hmm.

252

Those are the couples that thrive together

because it's not a you're the problem,

253

you're the problem, you're the problem.

254

It's like, let me, let

me really look at myself.

255

Mm-hmm.

256

And oh yeah.

257

And how I'm showing up.

258

I educate, uh, I set some boundaries

on how far we can get if they're

259

not willing to do certain things.

260

And I always hold my couples responsible

individually for themselves, and anytime

261

they get into the like victim villain

kind of dance, I'm like, hold on.

262

Because as the victim, you now look

like the villain to your partner

263

and they feel like the victim.

264

So, uh, um, my clients know, like I have

such a deep love and respect for each

265

one of them, but I will speak truth to

them and I will hold them to the fire of

266

what they've asked me to hold them to.

267

If they've said we want a better

relationship, that's what we're here for.

268

Mm.

269

If they've said, my goal is better

communication, then when you make that

270

side comment because you're in that

righteous rage, 'cause we feel it.

271

We feel it, I'm gonna call you out on that

and, and when you escape partner to that

272

righteous rage and you evade and you start

drinking and you do whatever to avoid.

273

I'm calling you out on that too.

274

'cause somebody finally has to

point the mirror at us instead

275

of our partner always doing it.

276

Yeah.

277

Oh, okay.

278

Yeah.

279

It's worth working on this.

280

Erica Voell: Yeah, that's really hard.

281

We don't wanna see that part of ourselves.

282

We really don't.

283

And that sleep part, that was

about the time that I started

284

just like I was not sleeping.

285

My husband was snoring more, he

was, his legs were moving more.

286

And I saw my nutritionist and

she's like, Erica, you look like

287

you haven't slept in months.

288

And I was like, I don't feel

like I've been sleeping well.

289

So we have separate bedrooms

and because I'm a night owl,

290

he's an early bird like we are.

291

S both sleeping so much better.

292

And I know that there are a lot of

people who are like, oh my gosh,

293

you sleep in separate bedrooms.

294

But like, that is my sanctuary.

295

Yep.

296

He has his sanctuary.

297

Like we love it.

298

It, it's really improved our relationship.

299

And then.

300

When I'm having a bad day, I can just go

to my room and I can just have my time.

301

And my daughter has her time

in her own room, so and I,

302

Katie Rössler: yep.

303

Erica Voell: And for so many women,

I think for some of us, like I have

304

a kid who's getting ready to go into.

305

Puberty.

306

So I feel like we're both in

it together, like yeah, we're,

307

we're, we're experiencing, my

poor husband is experiencing

308

the two tracks at the same time.

309

So

310

Katie Rössler: yes, I, I worked

with a father of two daughters.

311

And had his wife and he said, I would

go out into the garage, I had my little

312

like cooler box back there and I'd

get these big old Hershey bars, I'd,

313

I'd order 'em when they were on sale

and I'd bring it in on the counter

314

'cause they were all on the same cycle.

315

And I'd bring out the knife and

I'd hack it into three pieces.

316

And I'd just give an, I'D sit

at the table and just listen.

317

You're a good dad and a good husband.

318

You know, you know, so absolutely.

319

Most of us are going through this

phase of life with, if you've

320

got children, you, you've got

them going into puberty or in it.

321

And let's add in.

322

Some of us have aging parents.

323

Erica Voell: Yeah.

324

Katie Rössler: And if you've got a

parent with dementia or starting to

325

show signs of certain health issues,

you're dealing with somebody who

326

emotionally, mentally, might be younger.

327

So, right.

328

Like it's at, at both ends while

we're just trying to walk the path.

329

Erica Voell: Mm-hmm.

330

So in the summit that you talked that

I was part of, I, it was so amazing

331

and I loved hearing about other people,

talking about the relationship shifts.

332

Um, when people come to

you, what stage are they?

333

Are they at.

334

Katie Rössler: Roommate mode every time.

335

It's like, you know, I, I mean,

I could call, like I look at them

336

like, are you guys in roommate mode?

337

How'd you know?

338

Because that's when people come to me.

339

Um, roommate mode is, we

talk practical things.

340

Uh, we're really good at, you know, we, we

will get the projects done, or maybe one's

341

doing a little bit more than the other.

342

Right.

343

But we don't, and I also call it

the emotional divorce that feels

344

very strong for many people.

345

They don't like that word divorce.

346

But it is, there's no, there's no

emotional connection to the same level.

347

But you're, you're, you're paying the

bills, you're paying the bills, you're

348

getting people where they need to be.

349

At the end of the day,

you're having dinner.

350

That's it.

351

And that's when people come to me.

352

Um, very rarely do I have people

come to me that are fully in

353

that, um, should be divorce.

354

I do get that.

355

It used to be way more than it is now,

but I have been really strong about

356

saying, I'm not here to save your

marriage, but I'm here to give you the

357

tools for you to work on your marriage.

358

Um, I do have usually the, the woman

especially, has done the, should I stay or

359

should I go question already, internally?

360

And eventually she'll admit that to me,

like, I've been thinking about this.

361

Is this really worth it?

362

Does this make sense?

363

And then spoiler alert, the

husband's been thinking it too.

364

Mm.

365

Because typically if one is

like, this is miserable, the

366

other one feels that way too.

367

They may just not say it

or have the words for it.

368

Uh, but yeah, I would say roommate mode.

369

That's when people come where it's like,

great, we can, you know, run a household.

370

Mm-hmm.

371

That's it.

372

Like just roommates.

373

Erica Voell: Yeah.

374

And I know that that divorce rates

go up for women, especially in their

375

forties and their fifties and yeah, I

remember being a kid in the eighties

376

and the early nineties and like there

were so many moms that left their family

377

and I thought, how could she do that?

378

And like that was the comment that

my mom was like, I don't know how

379

anybody could leave their family,

but as a woman at, at this age.

380

Not that I was ever at that stage

where I was like, I wanna leave.

381

But there were times I'm just like, I

don't know if I can do this anymore.

382

Like my daughter was in a

really heightened state.

383

It was just it.

384

Things were feeling

really tense all the time.

385

And I was in burnout.

386

Mm-hmm.

387

And that's when I was also

like, I can't function.

388

Can I just sleep all day long?

389

So what have you seen in your

work that's actually happening

390

underneath that kind of.

391

Katie Rössler: Oh, that's,

that's absolutely it.

392

That it's burnout.

393

Um, my own journey was

just being on autopilot.

394

Mm-hmm.

395

Groundhog Day every day.

396

Get up, do this, da da, da.

397

Not being intentional in my own

personal life, not being intentional

398

in how I took care of myself.

399

Um, so I wasn't being intentional

then in my relationship.

400

And that's why I really

talk about, I, I hold each.

401

Partner to, Hey, it's you gotta

be responsible for yourself,

402

which means you look at yourself,

what am I doing to cause issues?

403

How am I not being intentional?

404

How am I not showing up?

405

Instead of how your partner's not

giving you what you want or need.

406

Uh.

407

Often I hear, I don't feel

valued, I don't feel respected,

408

I don't feel like I matter.

409

And I usually stop the person and I

say, let me ask you a few questions.

410

Um, do you go to bed at a pretty

decent time where you're getting a

411

good six to eight hours sleep at night?

412

And usually like, Hmm,

no, I stay up later.

413

You know?

414

No.

415

Uh, are you making sure not to skip meals?

416

Are you like taking care of

your health and making sure

417

you like hydrate and like no.

418

Are you getting any type of exercise?

419

Do you get out in nature?

420

Do you get out some sun?

421

No.

422

Okay.

423

So you expect your partner to respect

and value and see you, but do you don't

424

take care of your basic needs of respect

and valuing your own body and yourself.

425

And they're usually a

bit like, oh, well crap.

426

And I'm like, yeah, so why are we

expecting something of our partners and,

427

and needing them to fill that cup for us

when we won't even do it for ourselves?

428

Like that just seems, you know, wrong.

429

Mm-hmm.

430

And when, when couples come to me,

they're fully in that state of, I

431

expect my partner to do these things

for me and be this way for me and

432

control this or do that, or whatever.

433

But they won't do it for themselves.

434

And that's a big turning point once

you figure that out, oh, I actually

435

am supposed to give this to myself

before I expect it from anyone else.

436

Mm-hmm.

437

And then my partner, I actually then see

when my partner does give me respect and

438

show me that I matter and that I, they

value me, but if they don't feel like they

439

matter to themselves or value themselves,

they won't be able to show it anyway.

440

So.

441

This is a really interesting cycle.

442

I think a lot of people in midlife

come to where they understand, they

443

went into a marriage expecting their

partner to fulfill certain needs.

444

Mm-hmm.

445

Or be a certain way.

446

And spoiler alert, you get into a marriage

and you pick a partner who's gonna bring

447

out all the wounds, all the stuff in you,

and be sandpaper against them until you

448

realize you are here to heal it yourself.

449

Not for them to fix it for you, not

for them to give you what you didn't

450

receive in childhood or or teen years.

451

And once you start to work on that

for yourself, then you know how

452

to say, Hey, how you just spoke to

me, uh, felt really disrespectful.

453

Do you mind changing your tone?

454

And they'll be like, oh yeah, I

didn't mean it, that, I didn't mean

455

for it to come across that way.

456

And then they change how they say and

it's not a fight and it's not a battle.

457

'cause you know, you stand for

respecting yourself and you deserve

458

to be spoken to in that way.

459

And you give your partner an

opportunity to do that for you.

460

Mm-hmm.

461

Instead of like, you're so disrespectful.

462

I can't believe you said that to me.

463

It's like, no, you feel a lot more

calm in who you are as you require and

464

request those things that you want.

465

Erica Voell: Yeah.

466

That, that piece about.

467

Valuing yourself.

468

That was a real learning piece for me.

469

I was always, well, my husband

would do this thing where

470

he's like, how can I fix it?

471

And I was like, I don't

want you to fix it.

472

I just want it to go away.

473

But then I didn't realize that like, that

was me needing to fix my, I didn't need

474

to fix myself in a sense, but I needed to

be aware of this, that this problem was

475

my responsibility and I could not, I was

telling him things because I wanted him.

476

I sort of secretly wanted him to fix

it, but I didn't want him to fix it

477

because I knew he wouldn't fix it my way.

478

Yep.

479

Yeah.

480

And it was, but that not valuing

yourself, like when I was in my worst

481

stages, like I was not, I didn't feel

like I could, eating was a lot and

482

yeah, getting outta bed was a lot.

483

And just that Groundhog Day you

talked about earlier was just.

484

It was just that sludge every day.

485

And yes, one thing that I see

with my clients is that they

486

have been everything to everyone.

487

They have been keeping the

peace they have been living.

488

Yep.

489

In ways and making decisions in ways

that make them acceptable to others.

490

And they sort of hit this wall

at one point and they're like.

491

Fed up and they're exhausted and they

can't figure out why, but they keep

492

doing, saying the same things expecting.

493

It's that version of insanity where you're

doing the same thing over and over and

494

over and expecting a different result.

495

But how does that pattern show up in

relationships and what do you see?

496

So what does it do to a couple

when one person starts to

497

wake up to that realization?

498

Katie Rössler: Yes.

499

So the people pleaser, the one that

keeps the peace is conflict avoidant.

500

Usually they're, they're very, you

know, they might throw in a full, I

501

don't agree with that, or, I don't like

that, or, or kind of fight some things.

502

But in general that keep the peace.

503

We'll do what, you know, the

adaptable one is how I like it.

504

You know, I'm agreeable and

adaptable when they wake up.

505

'cause they do, even if it's the, the man

in the relationship and not the woman.

506

They eventually will 'cause the

resentment will build up so much

507

that they just can't anymore.

508

Um, I find this a beautiful

invitation of the change that often

509

the other partner was asking for.

510

I wish I knew what you were thinking.

511

I wish you would tell me what you want.

512

You know, I don't wanna have

to take the lead on everything.

513

So sometimes there's some couples

who are like, thank goodness, like,

514

I'm ready for this side of you.

515

Which is great.

516

There's just a little bit of reworking

the strategy of how you've done your

517

relationship because it's always kind

of fallen on one person's shoulders

518

to take care of everything or make

the decisions or whatever it might be.

519

Uh, and the other partner's been like,

I've been waiting for you to let me help.

520

I've been waiting for you to like, but

I didn't wanna step on your toes either.

521

And then you have the, the other part,

which is a little more challenging, where.

522

Oh, I, I always say it's like

the one partner always got like

523

the king-sized bed at the Hilton

and the filet mignon every night.

524

And now it's like, no, you're gonna have

to sleep on a sleeping bag on the floor.

525

'cause I want the king-sized bed now.

526

And like you might get some veggies

'cause I'm gonna have the filet mignon

527

that's gonna cause temper tantrums.

528

That's gonna cause some reactions because

the system, as you've ran it in your

529

home, has been flowing a certain way that

probably other people benefited from it.

530

And now you're saying,

I wanna change that.

531

And well, well, who's gonna be

like, yes, let's change that

532

king size bed at the Hilton.

533

You know, like, I absolutely

want to go camping outside now.

534

Um.

535

But it means having some intentional

conversations, not backing down when

536

the temper tantrums happen, uh, that

someone being upset at you, disappointed,

537

whatever word they wanna use for it,

doesn't mean you've done anything wrong.

538

It's their own nervous system being

like, but I, I like the comfort

539

of how we've been doing things.

540

I like the rhythm.

541

I don't wanna change things.

542

And if you have a partner.

543

When you say, Hey, I'm not

happy, I'd like these to change.

544

Then they're like, well, that's

only you 'cause I'm fine.

545

It's because that's what's been happening.

546

Mm-hmm.

547

Like, I don't wanna change again,

I don't wanna sleep on the floor.

548

Like, no.

549

So I always say to couples that

are at this like, you know,

550

invitation to change things.

551

It's, I, I say we gotta tear down the

old and, and my method is called rebuild.

552

And we gotta tear down the old and

really rebuild with the wisdom you

553

have of usually over a decade together.

554

What works, what doesn't, what roles

did you sign up for without realizing

555

that you don't wanna have anymore?

556

What identities did you take on

that don't serve you anymore?

557

And then when it becomes a, a, you

know, mutual partnership conversation

558

rather than one making the decision,

the other has to go with it.

559

There's a lot more buy-in.

560

Like, you know, ha with having a child,

sometimes you can get them fully on

561

board with something because they were a

part of the creation of whatever it is.

562

Oh, yes.

563

Yeah.

564

I said, I'll help with this.

565

So now, you know, or like dinner

time, like, I helped make this meal.

566

I'm going to eat my whole plate

because I love this whole thing

567

'cause I helped make it right.

568

Mm-hmm.

569

In our partnership, it

has to be a co-creation.

570

It can't be one goes, I'm tired

of this, so it has to stop.

571

It's gotta be like, hey.

572

How we've been doing

things is not working.

573

I get, you may not feel the same,

but I'm 50% of this equation.

574

And to be honest, it's gonna

shake things up if I'm the

575

only one who's working on it.

576

So let's co-create, let's

shift this and change it.

577

And, and it's a bit like, you know, an a

new iPhone or whatever Samsung, where it's

578

like, oh, well why would you even upgrade

the other one still works just fine.

579

Well, because there's some things

that, you know, newer technology,

580

newer things that's been learned

from the old that actually improves

581

the battery life and how things run.

582

Why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you

say, okay, yeah, let's, let's move

583

forward with the wisdom we've gained

and build something stronger together.

584

Mm-hmm.

585

So what brought you to

working with couples that have

586

been together a long time?

587

I'm very curious about that.

588

Yeah.

589

Uh, they, that's just

who was coming to me?

590

No, uh, I mean I truly, that's how it

started was I realized that couples

591

that were coming to me, uh, were

older than me 'cause I'm 41 and I

592

was getting couples back when I was

in my mid late thirties who were,

593

you know, 10 years older than me.

594

And I was like, okay.

595

Which it doesn't bother me.

596

I, I, I've always been such an

old soul that I was like, yeah,

597

this is, I'm comfortable with it.

598

Um.

599

But I'm also, you know, over 10 years

with my partner, 16 years together.

600

And we live internationally.

601

So most of the couples that I

work with globally are either

602

expats or bicultural bilingual.

603

Um, so the types of couples

that came to me were probably,

604

'cause I'm walking that path.

605

So I, I write very openly about this path.

606

I'm open on my podcast about my own

ex experiences and my shifts and

607

things I've had to take ownership of.

608

Mm-hmm.

609

And what my partners had

to take ownership of.

610

Um.

611

But I, I also realized in the market,

like, you know, when you read the stuff

612

on the Gottman's and, and Esther Perel,

they kind of go back and forth from

613

like the dating experience to when you

have kids to, and I'm like, why not?

614

We just stick with the people who

are like, I don't know, either we

615

tear this all down and you know,

bird it to the ground and walk away,

616

or we try to build something new

together, or we stay like this till

617

the kids are out and then we divorce.

618

And I was like, no, no, no.

619

I feel like there's just so many

skills in that timeframe that

620

we could learn and we should.

621

Erica Voell: Mm-hmm.

622

Yeah.

623

So I wanna go back to

roommate mode for a second.

624

'cause I feel like that that's

where a lot of us get stuck.

625

Yep.

626

So what does that moment look like

when you say you're in roommate mode,

627

like what comes, what shows up for

them and like how does perimenopause

628

factor into this, that, that.

629

When they are like, wait,

that's what's happening.

630

Like, 'cause a lot of times I don't think

we realize we're in roommate mode until

631

something's just, something feels funny.

632

And my, my husband will say, you know,

I don't wanna be like a servant anymore.

633

And I'm like, I had no idea

he was feeling that way.

634

Katie Rössler: Yes.

635

Oh, so good that he says that to you.

636

Um, they usually come to

me saying roommate mode.

637

I don't usually have to point it

out to them at some point when we,

638

I usually do have them do a bit

of an audit of their relationship.

639

How's your communication?

640

How's your connection?

641

How's shared responsibility?

642

You know, and I'll hear, you know,

we function really good as partners.

643

We're very practical.

644

And I might go kind of like roommate

mode and they're like, exactly.

645

I, I also write a lot about roommate mode

and talk about it again on my podcast.

646

So when people come to work with me,

they've listened to these things,

647

they've read these things and

they're like, you, you nailed it.

648

That's what it feels like.

649

It is just, you know, we're just.

650

Two people in a home.

651

Um, so they bring that to me when I

bring in the, you know, Hey, let's,

652

let's just talk about perimenopause

and how this season of life,

653

because it's a like a decade long.

654

So more than likely you're in it.

655

Let's talk about what this is like.

656

Uh, usually there's, there

really is an openness from both.

657

Because there's, there's

a vocabulary finally.

658

Mm-hmm.

659

There's an explanation.

660

Um, the woman is coming in, going, I'm

having an emotional experience within

661

me and I need to talk more emotionally.

662

And roommate mode's not emotional.

663

Roommate mode is fix it practical, you

know, like what day and time, not how

664

do you feel about the day and time?

665

You know, like, is that does,

but it's just what day and time?

666

So this season of life really does force

couples to get back into connection.

667

If they can deal with the resentment

and the hurt and the things that need

668

to finally be forgiven and the habits

and patterns that they're in that

669

just need to be broken and changed.

670

Mm-hmm.

671

And that's the beauty of being able to.

672

Read the books, look at social media

and, and get the, oh wait, this is,

673

I always say normal is a setting

on a, you know, washing machine.

674

It's not what your relationship should be.

675

It should be healthy.

676

Like, oh, these things are normal, but

I don't, they don't have to be this way.

677

There.

678

It's actually healthier

ways to do these things.

679

That's, that's why it's really good.

680

More and more people are talking

about this phase of life and how it

681

impacts relationships because it.

682

It's so, it's such its own

transformation in the relationship.

683

Mm-hmm.

684

Right?

685

Like as you know, we're going through

our own transformation, but it is

686

such a transformation and I just think

it's a shame not to do it together.

687

Erica Voell: Yeah.

688

And one of your recent podcast episodes,

you talked about perimenopause is

689

an invitation rather than a crisis.

690

And I love that reframe so much.

691

'cause it feels like a crisis.

692

I mean.

693

Yeah.

694

I think for a lot of us, we were told

like midlife is the guy who goes and

695

gets the red sports car, but like,

that's not what midlife is like at all.

696

Like that's what, how it was presented.

697

There were lots of movies about men

in midlife crisis, but like women

698

were just going hysterically crazy.

699

Katie Rössler: Yep.

700

Yeah.

701

Well, and I, I think about,

you know, let's go back to

702

how the vibrator was created.

703

Do you know the history of this?

704

Erica Voell: No, I don't.

705

I was gonna say, tell me more to Katie.

706

Katie Rössler: Okay.

707

Women were hysterical.

708

Hysteria comes from this.

709

Women were being hysterical.

710

So they would go to their

doctor and the doctor would do

711

it, uh, give them an orgasm.

712

'cause they realized that that

would calm women down and make

713

them, you know, complicit.

714

You'd be calm and you'd listen to what

I want you to do and you, you'd be good.

715

And so they got tired

of using their hands.

716

So they developed the vibrator.

717

The vibrator.

718

Erica Voell: Oh my gosh.

719

That is the best origin story ever.

720

Katie Rössler: So, you know, sometimes our

mental health stuff works in our favor.

721

No, I'm just kidding.

722

Um, but that was hap, right?

723

Like that was happening.

724

And then I think when they

realized, oh, what are we doing?

725

Maybe not.

726

There's a really big gap of, I mean

727

Alcohol, rise of alcohol, rise of suicide

rates, um, prescription pills, right?

728

Mm-hmm.

729

Unfortunately, we can look back

and see different seasons and

730

generations to, and see how they coped.

731

Mm-hmm.

732

By what was happening.

733

What were the kind of epidemics for women?

734

And you can guess because you

listen and listen in on how old

735

were the kids, usually the kids

were grade school, middle school.

736

Women were having babies at

18, 19 years old to start off.

737

Mm-hmm.

738

So that they were, later on they're

having like this, like I'm having

739

this crisis at quarterly crisis

basically at, you know, 28, 30.

740

And then when I got to the point where I

was in my forties, it was like, screw it.

741

Yeah.

742

Pop the pills, whatever it might be.

743

Right?

744

Or, or yeah.

745

Leave.

746

Leave the marriage.

747

Mm-hmm.

748

Leave the marriage.

749

What's the point?

750

Erica Voell: And all of a sudden, like I

had this sort of running through my head

751

of like, who were the, the in Jane Eyre?

752

We had the crazy woman upstairs.

753

Yeah.

754

I think, was it Rebecca?

755

That she had a woman that was kind

of locked away, like all these women

756

who were probably in perimenopause.

757

Or menopause.

758

Katie Rössler: Or menopause.

759

Yeah.

760

Yes, they were.

761

They were the, the problems.

762

Mm-hmm.

763

Yeah.

764

Erica Voell: Yeah.

765

And I was it Beyond the Valley

of the Dolls where the women

766

were like popping tons of pills?

767

It was a thing.

768

Katie Rössler: Ooh, I don't know that one.

769

No,

770

Erica Voell: I don't know.

771

It's from the sixties.

772

Um, yeah, that's a whole thing for a

whole conversation for another day is

773

how were women portrayed in the sixties,

especially like the the pill poppers.

774

Um,

775

Katie Rössler: I will say though, if

you go back in time and you look at

776

the pictures of the women who were.

777

Rioting or, you know, standing up

for a certain, they were women in

778

their forties and their fifties.

779

Mm-hmm.

780

Yes.

781

There were some in their twenties and

thirties, but like the, the ones where

782

you see with the mic talking mm-hmm.

783

Forties and fifties.

784

Good.

785

Yeah.

786

And we are in a time right now where

our voices need to be even stronger of

787

what we will stand for and not within

our own homes, within our families.

788

All of it.

789

So I, I, I think this is our time now

to, to stand up and use our voices more.

790

Erica Voell: Mm-hmm.

791

Especially the women in like in the US

that fought for, um, the right to vote.

792

Yeah.

793

They were all per postmenopausal women.

794

Yep.

795

Yeah.

796

Katie Rössler: Those movements tells you

something, tells you something that this

797

transformation, I mean it's its own.

798

We talked about this summit.

799

It's a portal.

800

It truly is a portal.

801

It is a rite of passage.

802

It is uncomfortable and

there's a reason for it.

803

Mm-hmm.

804

And I, and it's like, use that.

805

Erica Voell: Yeah.

806

And learning that, like we go through

these different cycles in our lives.

807

I know in human design we

talk about the different Yeah.

808

Cycles, but then learning that like

fifties and sixties are, and our brains

809

actually change so much, and that like

by 60 we basically have a new brain.

810

I'm like, I'm, I'm ready for it.

811

Katie Rössler: I'm here for that.

812

Right.

813

I'm here for that.

814

Erica Voell: So Katie, what?

815

I have one final question for you.

816

It's been so great to have you.

817

Um, what is one unwritten rule of

midlife that you would like to rewrite?

818

Katie Rössler: Ooh, an unwritten rule

of midlife, um, that aging is amazing.

819

Uh, we have this view that aging

is bad, especially for women.

820

It's a decline.

821

We're, you know, throw

us out, we're no good.

822

Like, I would really love to rewrite

that and put in, like, aging is amazing.

823

This is a, it is such a pivotal

and amazing transformation.

824

Think about when you were 10 years

old to 20, 20 to 30, 30 to 40.

825

Like all the things you

experienced and how you developed.

826

It's amazing.

827

Mm-hmm.

828

And that's how I wanna step into.

829

I am stepping into midlife, but step

into my fifties, into my sixties,

830

into my seventies and my 80.

831

Like I, all of it, every decade

I wanna look at it and be like,

832

yes, what does this have for me?

833

Instead of this sort of rule

that's kind of hidden in the

834

background of like, this is bad.

835

Again, a curse, you know?

836

Mm-hmm.

837

This is bad.

838

You should just be locked away in a room

'cause you're probably crazy or whatever.

839

Right.

840

You know?

841

Yeah.

842

He'll just give you a vibrator.

843

Good luck.

844

Um, but like.

845

No, I think, I think midlife

is like shed the shackles.

846

Just go and start

celebrating what's to come.

847

Erica Voell: Yeah, and I'm

always celebrating like.

848

I am here.

849

Like, yes, these gray

hairs, they are wisdom.

850

Yes, I have gained something.

851

Now the wrinkles, you know, I'm

still working through that part,

852

but the gray hairs, I'm like,

I earned every one of these.

853

Yeah, it was probably a

fight with my daughter.

854

Katie Rössler: Yes.

855

And I.

856

I know you probably feel the same way.

857

I would love to see more powerful

women with lots of money who

858

have wrinkles and gray hair.

859

Yes.

860

Running this space, because then we can

start to see that that matters rather

861

than we need to look like 16-year-old

girls to be of, you know, attractive.

862

But 16-year-old girls don't have money.

863

A career power control, anything.

864

Mm-hmm.

865

So why are we trying to look like that?

866

Even in our twenties, we

didn't have what we have now.

867

Um, when like, uh, yeah, that,

that script has to be changed too.

868

That, that feeling of like,

oh, the wrinkles and stuff.

869

Like, oh, I wanna see, I want lots

of wrinkles and I want 'em gray, and

870

I want them like doling out money.

871

Like, I got this, I got you.

872

I'll take care of you.

873

I got this.

874

That would just be amazing.

875

Erica Voell: Yes, I

sign me up for that one.

876

Katie Rössler: Yep, yep.

877

It's coming.

878

I have a strong feeling

that's gonna shift too.

879

Erica Voell: Yeah.

880

So, Katie, how can people find

you and where can they find you?

881

Katie Rössler: Yeah, so love

for you to come listen to my

882

podcast relationship reset.

883

I'm on Substack, I am on Instagram,

uh, Facebook and LinkedIn.

884

Uh, and you can contact me

through katierossler.com

885

on my contact page.

886

Love for you to come and discuss

with me what's going on in your

887

relationship and what maybe is

impacting roommate mode for you guys.

888

Erica Voell: Hmm, well thank you.

889

And we will put all of the

links in the show notes.

890

Thank you Katie, so much.

891

It was so great to talk to you.

892

Katie Rössler: Thank you, Erica.

893

Erica Voell: If this episode resonated

with you, I would be so grateful if you

894

would click the plus sign to subscribe,

share it with a friend, a colleague,

895

or your partner.

896

You can find me on substack, where I

publish articles, host workshops, and

897

share more about midlife and human design.

898

Thanks for joining me.

899

Be well.