Two Mothers and Two Mother wounds

In this deeply personal and emotional conversation, Desiree shares her journey of growing up between two mother figures, her biological mother and the great-aunt who raised her after she entered the foster system at age five. From early instability, abuse, and emotional parentification to navigating identity, race, and belonging in a predominantly white town, Desiree opens up about the lasting impact of her childhood experiences.

Now a licensed professional counselor associate and a mother herself, she reflects on the complexity of forgiveness, the evolution of her relationship with her biological mom, and the boundaries she’s had to build with the family who raised her. This episode explores the “mother wound,” generational trauma, and what it means to break cycles while raising the next generation.

With this episode you’ll be able to learn:

• Growing up with two maternal figures and navigating divided loyalties
• Entering foster care and being raised by extended family
• Experiencing instability, abuse, and early emotional responsibility
• The impact of inconsistent parenting and “walking on eggshells”
• Over-scheduling as a coping strategy and why it didn’t work
• Identity, race, and isolation in a predominantly white environment
• Mental health struggles in adolescence, including disordered eating and hospitalization
• The long road to rebuilding a relationship with her biological mother
• Setting boundaries with caregivers who provided materially but lacked emotional connection
• Breaking generational cycles as a parent

Connect with Brittney:

• Instagram: @theBrittneyScott
• Website: www.brittneymscott.com
• Consultation to work with Brittney
• Free Resources

A Reframe:

Desiree’s story is a powerful reminder that providing a “good life” materially doesn’t always meet a child’s emotional needs. Healing isn’t linear and sometimes growth means holding compassion and boundaries at the same time.

Thank you for listening. Don't forget you can submit your question! And yes, I really am going to give you an answer in an upcoming podcast.and be sure to say hi on Instagram!

Resources Mentioned

Free Class (May 20th): Learn how to build a healthier, more connected relationship with your daughter. Register Here

Help me reach more service providers like you by following the show & leaving a rating or review on Apple & Spotify!

Keyword tags:

Brittneyscott,#MotherDaughterRelationship #motherwound, #fostercare, #familytrauma, #emotionalneglect, #parentification, #identity, #therapyexperiences, #adolescentmentalhealth, #generationalhealing, #boundaries

Mentioned in this episode:

Q2 '26 Ad

Imagine having a mother wound from

not one, but two mothers in your

2

life, from your adoptive mother,

but also from your birth mother.

3

Imagine having to navigate two

mother-daughter relationships that

4

are vastly different and all of

the emotions that come with that.

5

In today's episode, you're gonna get to

hear Desiree's story and learn how she

6

has managed just that and where life has

taken her, what she experienced inside of

7

both of her mother-daughter relationships.

8

Welcome to the Mother Daughter

Relationship Show, the podcast for mothers

9

and daughters who want to build stronger

bonds, deepen their understanding,

10

and transform their relationships.

11

I'm your host, Brittney

Scott, licensed therapist and

12

mother-daughter relationship coach.

13

After years of working with hundreds of

daughters and mothers, I've developed

14

strategies that help break generational

patterns, heal wounds, and create the

15

loving relationships you've always wanted.

16

Each week, I'll be sharing insights from

real clients, expert interviews, and

17

practical tools you can use immediately

to improve your mother-daughter dynamic.

18

Whether you're struggling with

communication breakdowns, navigating

19

major life transitions, or simply wanna

take your already good relationship to

20

the next level, this show is for you.

21

And yes, the transformation I guide

my clients through can be yours, too.

22

I'll share more about

how you can work with me.

23

It's time to experience the

relationship you both deserve.

24

Are you ready?

25

Let's dive in.

26

Hey, welcome back to another

episode of the Mother Daughter

27

Relationship Show podcast.

28

I'm your host, Brittney, and

in today's episode, we are

29

interviewing Desiree Trammell.

30

Desiree is a licensed professional

counselor associate in Texas.

31

She supports children, adolescents,

and adults through trauma, life

32

transitions, and the everyday challenges

that shape their emotional world.

33

Desiree is known for creating a steady,

structured, and supportive environment

34

where clients can slow down, feel

understood, and explore their experiences

35

at a pace that feels safe for them.

36

Her style emphasizes collaboration,

practical skill-building,

37

and a genuine presence.

38

In addition to her clinical work, Desiree

is a certified birth doula, offering

39

emotional support, advocacy, and grounding

practices to individuals and families

40

during pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.

41

This work reflects her deep commitment

to honoring the mind-body connection

42

and supporting people through

some of the most vulnerable and

43

transformative moments of their lives.

44

Outside of her professional roles- Desiree

finds joy in simple, grounding rituals.

45

She loves listening to true crime

podcasts, reading romance novels,

46

and taking long walks and baking.

47

So let's just learn some more about

Desiree's mother-daughter story.

48

And we have Desiree here with us today.

49

I'm so excited that she's

here to share her story.

50

Tell the listeners a bit about yourself.

51

Hi, thank you for having me.

52

I'm Desiree, and I live in

Dallas, Texas, and I am a licensed

53

professional counselor associate and

a mother to one, a three-year-old.

54

And I am from Iowa, small town in Iowa.

55

So let's start with this question.

56

I haven't asked this one starting out.

57

What makes your mother-daughter

relationship unique?

58

Oh, goodness.

59

So I think what makes mine

so unique is, is that I...

60

It wasn't necessarily an adoption, but

it was, I was raised by my great aunt

61

and great uncle, and I was a ward of

the state starting at the age of five.

62

So I was born to a teen mom, so that

right there is in itself is a, she's,

63

you know, young teenager herself.

64

And then at the age of five,

I was taken from my mother and

65

ward of the state, and then great

aunt and uncle got custody of me.

66

And so it's been unique because I've

had to navigate the relationship of

67

my biological mother as well as my

great aunt, where I've had two mother

68

figures, where I have felt kind of the

power struggle between both of them,

69

and I was always been put in the middle.

70

And, you know, and then obviously becoming

a mother myself, realizing things that

71

my mom went through, I'm like, "Wow,"

like, she didn't know any better.

72

And then also, too- Mm ... becoming

a mother myself, realizing my aunt

73

didn't know any better either.

74

So it's been a full circle moment

for me, you know, now that I

75

have a little one of my own.

76

So I feel like that kind of makes it

unique, where I've had to have two

77

relationship dynamics and navigate

both of those at such a young age.

78

So do you identify with

having a mother wound?

79

Absolutely.

80

Would this wound include both

mom, both of your mothers?

81

Yes.

82

Do you feel comfortable sharing what

happened and why you were removed from

83

your mom's care and she lost custody?

84

Yeah.

85

So like I'd mentioned, my mom, she got

pregnant at 17, had me at 18, and I

86

was with her until I was four, five.

87

Things kind of got rocky

with my biological father.

88

She left him when I was, like, two,

three, and we bounced from friend

89

to friend, relative to relative.

90

We never really were stable at all.

91

And then she had met her husband, Michael.

92

And Their relationship was very

tumultuous, toxic, and ended up becoming

93

very abusive to her, to both of us.

94

And when I'm little, I'm just running

my mouth all the time and saying, "Oh,

95

Mommy's boyfriend is doing this," and,

"Mommy's boyfriend's doing that to us."

96

And my family caught wind of it when

we were there visiting, and they went

97

to court and got temporary custody of

me, and they required my mom to go to

98

parenting classes in order to get me back.

99

And from what I was told from one side

of the family, that she never went,

100

but kind of forged the signature of the

parenting classes in order to get me back.

101

And then she ended up getting

custody of me again, temporary,

102

after she kinda got it together.

103

And then after she got temporary

custody of me again, she

104

messed up again, moved around.

105

She was still with Michael.

106

She ended up getting married to him.

107

And then a very, very, very

traumatic incident happened-

108

Right ... where the police were called.

109

We were sent to a women's shelter.

110

He went to jail, and then my aunt and

uncle had to come rescue us in the middle

111

of the night from the women's shelter,

and I've never left their custody since.

112

My mom left, went back to Michael, had

another baby with him, and that was that,

113

and I never went back to live with my

mother again, and I was five at the time.

114

Yeah.

115

That's hard.

116

The start of your existence

having so much uncertainty.

117

Very, very uncertain.

118

And now that I'm a mother

myself, I could not even imagine.

119

You know, she was really young, right?

120

20, 21, 22, 23.

121

And like, what was I doing at that age?

122

And then to have your baby taken from

you, and there's nothing you can do.

123

You know, realizing, looking back at

the choices she made, she felt stuck.

124

She felt like she didn't have a

choice, and she didn't have a voice,

125

and there's nothing she could do.

126

You know, she wanted to be chosen by

men, and unfortunately it was a man

127

that, you know, wasn't the best for us.

128

But she wanted her family, so I get it.

129

Do you have a relationship with her today?

130

And also, do you have a

relationship with that sibling?

131

I do have a relationship with my

mother, and I have a relationship

132

with all three siblings.

133

She had three kids after me, so all

three of them, I do have a relationship

134

with all three of them, yes.

135

It has been rocky.

136

Very, very, very tumultuous

relationship with my mother.

137

But I would say in the last five years,

it's the, been the best it's ever been.

138

Same with my sister and

my two younger brothers.

139

She's went and got help herself.

140

She likes to say her

frontal lobe developed.

141

She said, she's like, "I'm just older."

142

She's like, "I'm older now.

143

I'm not with the shenanigans

and doing all the things and

144

wanting to be chosen by men."

145

And you know, she focused really hard

on raising her children, my siblings

146

after me, and I can tell a really big

difference in her as well And I think

147

things blossomed even more after I had

my baby, and now she's a really good

148

mimi and likes to call and send gifts

and FaceTime and, and things like that.

149

So yeah.

150

So she grew up.

151

She grew up.

152

Took a while, but she did it.

153

Yeah, but her frontal lobe just developed

and it wasn't there when you were born.

154

Right.

155

So how did...

156

Your aunt and uncle basically rescue

you out of a situation that could

157

have ended, I don't know, maybe very

badly, or just caused more trauma or

158

more harm to you if you had stayed.

159

Mm-hmm.

160

What happened with your relationship

with your birth mom after

161

basically never returning to her?

162

Mm.

163

How did that play out as you grew up?

164

I know you guys have a

relationship today, but what was

165

it like as a kid of growing up?

166

Was she around?

167

Did you not see her for a while?

168

You know.

169

So from age five until 18, I

think I only saw her a total

170

handful of times, maybe less than

three times my entire five to 18.

171

She came to visit a few times when I

was, you know, in elementary school.

172

She would call when she could.

173

You could tell when she would call

she'd be going through something,

174

'cause then she would be upset, and

she would say things to me that would

175

upset me, and then I would be upset

for a few days after our phone call.

176

And then at that point, my parents were

just like, "We need to limit your convers-

177

your communication with your mom because

you just, it takes you three or four

178

days to recover from talking to her."

179

Yeah.

180

And at first I didn't understand.

181

Of course, now I do.

182

But again, it was very tumultuous.

183

There'd be times where she'd be like, "I'm

s- such a horrible mom, and I, you know,

184

I am so sad that you're not with me, but,

you know, you've got a good life there."

185

And then the next phone call

would be, "You're so selfish.

186

Why don't you wanna live with me?

187

You just, you're so spoiled.

188

You're..."

189

And she would hurt my feelings,

and she'd make me cry and be upset.

190

And then I would be the

one like, "No, I love you.

191

I wanna be with you."

192

And she would a- ask me to ask

questions, like, "Well, can I, you

193

know, can the court change things?"

194

Can they try to manipulate the situation

to get me to go back and live with her?

195

So it was very rocky.

196

And then my junior year, uh, of high

school, this is kind of a personal story.

197

My ju- my junior year of high school,

I went through a really rough breakup

198

with a boyfriend, and I started

restrictive eating and developed

199

disordered eating, and I just spiraled.

200

I became very angry and annoyed and

upset, and I would became hurtful

201

to my Aunt Patty and Uncle John.

202

I was saying things.

203

I was skipping school.

204

I was just your rebellious teen.

205

And I think I got online and tried

to buy a, bought a bus ticket

206

to go down to live with my mom.

207

I was like, "I don't wanna

be with you guys anymore.

208

I don't wanna live with you.

209

I'm gonna go be with my mom."

210

And so I spiraled even

more, spiraled even more.

211

They contacted my therapist that I had.

212

All growing up, I had a therapist

from age five up until 18, and she was

213

like, "We need to get her admitted,"

like, "There's something happening.

214

Let's get her on

medicine," all the things.

215

And so I was admitted to Blank

Children's Hospital psych ward.

216

I was there for about two weeks,

and that was one of the darkest,

217

saddest- Mm ... times that I've had.

218

I was very angry with them for doing that.

219

I felt like there was

something wrong with me.

220

I felt like they thought that I was

just this awful person, awful teenager.

221

And so they were just like, "Okay, fine.

222

You wanna go live with your mom?

223

We'll drive you down there."

224

And they drove me down to live with

my mom, and I lasted about a month.

225

I called them and I said,

"I wanna come back."

226

And they're like, "Okay,

well, you have to apologize."

227

And so I called my family in Iowa.

228

I had to apologize to

several different people.

229

And so I got, had a little stint of living

with my mom in high school, and then after

230

that I was like, "Mm, I think I had it."

231

You know, the grass isn't

greener on the other side.

232

Honey John, Aunt Pinalta John let me come

back, and I finished out my senior year.

233

And then I went to college, and it

was still a little bit tumultuous

234

with my mom, and then it just, as

the years progressed, it's just

235

gotten better and better with her.

236

So her phone calls when you were younger

put you in a very adult position.

237

Mm-hmm.

238

Like, if you were in any kind of

control of her getting you back,

239

when as a child you weren't.

240

You didn't leave because you

made the decision to leave.

241

Yeah.

242

I didn't know what I was gonna get

when I would answer the phone, didn't

243

know if I was gonna get the happy mom.

244

I didn't know if I was

gonna get the sad mom.

245

I didn't know if I was

gonna get the manic mom.

246

And so I learned very early on that

I had to, like, manage her emotions-

247

Yeah ... and walk on eggshells.

248

You were taking care of her.

249

Yes, I was.

250

So what was your relationship like

with your aunt, with your adoptive mom?

251

Mm-hmm.

252

Whew.

253

Okay, so that one also, too, has

been tumultuous as well, and I

254

laugh because I'm uncomfortable.

255

They had three older kids.

256

They had a daughter in college.

257

They had a daughter that had

just graduated high school, and

258

then their son was in eighth

grade going into freshman year.

259

And then I, this five-year-old,

come live with them.

260

They had already been through it

with baby, toddler, little kid years.

261

And so they had the means to do it.

262

They had the means.

263

They had the finances.

264

They had the space.

265

They had the heart to take on a

little mixed girl in Iowa to raise me.

266

She was always the disciplinarian- ... and

so I think that was, that was just

267

kind of- How it was, where Uncle

John was more of like the laid back,

268

chill, shut up so you don't get in

trouble, just keep your mouth shut.

269

You know, just grit your teeth, rub

some dirt in it, go on type of man.

270

And she was more the passive

aggressive, sometimes aggressive,

271

she's a big yeller type of parent.

272

But then also too, she was the

one where I bonded where we'd go

273

shopping from sun up to sun down.

274

She would take me to go get my hair done.

275

She would, you know, made sure that I

had fun with my friends, and I was...

276

You know, she was a big dance

mom, and I, I was in dance and I

277

was in cheerleading and I was in

sports, and she made me do piano.

278

And I think I remember one time she told

me that I was complaining about going

279

to piano and complaining about going to

dance, and I just, I was in Bible school,

280

and I was in all these activities, and

she had made the comment, she goes, "You

281

know, I have you in all these activities.

282

You know, your therapist recommended

that we have you in all these

283

activities so you don't miss your

mom, and that you're not sad."

284

Interesting.

285

I get the idea, but how'd

you feel hearing that?

286

I don't even know.

287

I'm like, "Well, I don't think those

things are gonna help me not miss my mom.

288

They're just distractions."

289

And I was really young when she said that.

290

I think I was in elementary school

when she told me, and then she

291

reiterated again in high school.

292

And by my senior year I was so

freaking burnt out, I didn't even do

293

the high- my high school dance team.

294

I didn't even wanna do band.

295

I quit piano.

296

I just was like, "I am exhausted."

297

You were overscheduled to

keep you from being sad.

298

Yes.

299

And I still was depressed.

300

Yes.

301

Like I said, I get the idea.

302

Yeah.

303

But the execution of that

would've never been successful.

304

Yeah.

305

I was still depressed.

306

Even when we had, like, Thanksgiving,

we would host Thanksgiving at our

307

house, I would be the one in my room.

308

I'd come out to eat, and that's it.

309

I didn't ever really wanna do much.

310

It was very hard for me to have

friendships with the girls in

311

my class, my graduating class.

312

Very hard for me to have

relationships with really anybody.

313

Because you were depressed,

or- Yeah ... why was that?

314

I think, I think it was

depression, it was anxiety.

315

It was, I felt, I don't know, I kinda

turned into, like, a catty little girl.

316

You know, now I think it was probably RAD,

RAD, reactive attachment disorder, looking

317

back, and this, my therapist missed it.

318

I mean, not being able to live with

your mom, and then being pushed into

319

all of these things that you probably

didn't really ask for, maybe you

320

enjoyed it, but- Mm ... you were

sad and tired and probably confused.

321

Yeah.

322

You described yourself

as a little mixed girl.

323

So I'm imagining that you may have

been the only one that looked like you?

324

Absolutely.

325

Yes I was the only Black

person within a 30-mile radius.

326

The next Black girl was mixed,

and she lives a few towns over.

327

I did do dance with her.

328

We had a few Koreans in my town,

maybe one Hispanic, two Hispanics,

329

one Filipino, but that's it.

330

That's it.

331

Yeah.

332

And even to this day, little tidbit fun

fact, in Iowa there's not one single

333

Black pediatrician or one single Black

OBGYN in the whole state of Iowa.

334

I guess we kinda expect that.

335

Right.

336

And I feel like the only really Black

people that are there moved there

337

for, one, jobs or, two, college.

338

You've got Drake University, Iowa

State University, University of Iowa.

339

There are football players,

basketball players.

340

So when I went to Iowa State,

I was in a culture shock.

341

'Cause now you see more Black people?

342

Yes.

343

Yep, more Black people, more Latina,

Latino, Muslim, Middle Eastern.

344

I'm seeing everybody.

345

I'm seeing everything.

346

Yeah.

347

So college would be, like, representative

of the country, but you lived in a

348

part of the country that really doesn't

represent the whole country, basically.

349

Absolutely not.

350

I'm going to assume, I may be wrong

here, but I'm just gonna make the

351

assumption your mom is white if

that's your family that adopted you.

352

Yeah.

353

So, so my biological mother

is half white, half Thai.

354

My grandpa was in the Vietnam War,

married my grandmother, Wong Duean, and

355

brought her over, and they had two kids.

356

And they settled down in a little

teeny-tiny town called Lenox,

357

Iowa, and she worked at a factory

her entire life until she retired.

358

And how did your mom meet your dad?

359

My mom was 14, 15.

360

She ran away from home and moved

in with my grandpa, who had left my

361

grandmother to go live in California.

362

And- The grandmother that he

brought from another country.

363

Mm-hmm.

364

He had an affair with a neighbor,

and the next-door neighbor and

365

my grandmother were best friends,

and he had an affair with her.

366

She maybe had a baby

that was two months old.

367

She just had a baby.

368

They up and just left.

369

They're both of their families,

they just up and left and moved to

370

California, and nobody ever saw or

heard from them for a really long time.

371

My mom ended up finding him

and moved to California.

372

They lived in Orange County, and she

went to a high school in Fountain Valley.

373

And my dad played football

at a neighboring school,

374

and they met, and here I am.

375

And here you are.

376

Yeah.

377

So how did you get back to Iowa?

378

Or when did your mom get back to Iowa?

379

I don't ever get the full story from

either one of them, but the last thing

380

I do remember was we were in Texas at

the women's shelter when we had to...

381

when they came and rescued me.

382

She moved around so much.

383

When she met Michael, Michael's family, he

had family in Texas, and he had family in

384

Kansas, and he had family in Kansas City.

385

And so, I don't know, we lived all over.

386

Okay, so all of this

wasn't happening in Iowa?

387

No.

388

No, all of this was happening

either Texas- ... or California.

389

Yes.

390

So Iowa wasn't even your home,

but it quickly became your home.

391

Yes.

392

And no one around you looked like you.

393

You're in a family that...

394

Had you met them before

they came to get you?

395

Oh, twice.

396

Okay.

397

Well, as a five-year-old,

twice is probably not enough

398

to really know these people.

399

Not at all.

400

But they were the- I

mean- ... fun aunt and uncle.

401

They were the f- Yeah, I mean- We

went shopping, and I got Barbie

402

dolls and Barbie houses, and I got

to go play on the tractor and go

403

see the cows, and they made it fun.

404

Yeah.

405

Yeah.

406

But visiting and living are

two very different things.

407

Absolutely.

408

And they did the right thing, and

it sounds like they gave you a

409

great life, but they navigated the

things that happened to you in a way

410

that just didn't really help you.

411

Not at all.

412

Pushing you into all of the activities

to keep you from being sad probably

413

made you sadder, more exhausted,

more tired, more frustrated.

414

What was therapy like?

415

So you had therapy from the

time you were five till you

416

were 18 with the same person?

417

Yes.

418

Oh, gosh, her name was Mary.

419

What was that like?

420

I really liked Mary.

421

She, again, was a white lady- Mm-hmm

... but she understood family violence,

422

which is what I'd come from, and she...

423

We also lived in a small town where

therapy, we had to drive it, like,

424

two hours just to go to the next, the,

the town that had a therapist in it.

425

So I wouldn't get to see her often,

but when I did, I really liked it

426

'cause we got to play the game Sorry!,

427

we got to play Uno, and it was just

a nice break where I got to complain

428

and/or be sad, and she'd read a book.

429

I remember this book.

430

She'd read it every time about Papa

Bear and the mama bear and the baby

431

bear, and it was a book about how

Papa Bear would throw chairs, and

432

he'd slam things and punch things,

and I was like, "Oh, I'm used to that.

433

Like, I know that.

434

That's happened to me, too."

435

And so I really liked going to her,

and then as I got into all these

436

sports and dance and all the things,

it kinda slowed down, and then I

437

didn't see her again until I had my

episode my junior year of high school.

438

Yeah.

439

Was she helpful then?

440

I felt like she betrayed me a

little bit by having my parents

441

send me to the psychiatric hospital.

442

I didn't feel like she was on my side.

443

I didn't feel like she understood why I

was so angry with my parents and why they

444

wouldn't just let me go live with my mom.

445

Yeah, it made me really sad

that she was the one that wrote

446

the referral to, for me to go.

447

And so I didn't go back to her

because I feel like that was, that

448

therapeutic alliance was broken.

449

Yeah.

450

You didn't have a say

of what was happening.

451

No one was really listening to you.

452

No.

453

You were punished when you

probably needed more connection.

454

Absolutely.

455

It was very hurtful I know I was

hurtful towards them, but when

456

you're a teenager, you don't know.

457

So Now that you're an adult, do you

look back on that any differently

458

or do you still feel the same way?

459

I think because I'm getting emotional,

I think I still feel the same way.

460

It's not something that I've

worked through completely.

461

But again, they didn't

know what to do either.

462

I think it's easier f- for me to see

it from their point of view now that

463

I'm older, but I still feel betrayed.

464

I still feel sad and then hurt.

465

What happened when you were released?

466

You said you stayed for two weeks.

467

I've never been admitted

myself, but I have had clients

468

that were teenagers that have.

469

Mm-hmm.

470

So I've heard the stories of what it's

like for teenagers when they're admitted.

471

For some it's, things end up being worse.

472

For others it's like, "You know, I

learned a lot, but also I learned a lot

473

of bad things from the other teenagers."

474

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

475

"So all it did was just teach me

more things I didn't need to know."

476

So I've heard, I've heard the stories.

477

What was it like when you were released?

478

'Cause I imagine the two

weeks was not very good.

479

No, it was not very good.

480

What it was like when I

was released, I was...

481

It felt as if I was like,

"Okay, I still feel the same.

482

I still wanna go live with my mom.

483

I'm still angry, but I need to put

on an act so I don't go back there."

484

So I was still- Wow ... making

plans to go be with my mom.

485

Yeah.

486

And they didn't tell my mom that I was

in there, so she had been calling, and

487

they took away my phone, and she had

been calling trying to get ahold of me.

488

And when she found out that they'd

put me there, she was very upset.

489

And so I think it was, like, maybe a few

months later, I kind of lashed out again

490

and they were just like, "You know what?

491

We've had it with her.

492

Okay, if you wanna go, go."

493

And they'd, they, they waited

until after my dance competition.

494

So they wanted me to participate

in my dance competition.

495

That morning and that afternoon

she had packed the bags for me.

496

I didn't get to pick anything out.

497

She had already had my bags packed,

and she was like, "Okay, well..."

498

And then they drove me and they

passed the exit to where we live,

499

and I said, "Where are we going?"

500

And they're like, "If you wanna go

live with your mom, that's where

501

we're gonna drop you off at."

502

I didn't even know.

503

I didn't even know.

504

Yeah.

505

They took you to her house?

506

Yeah, you had no idea that was happening.

507

They drove me six hours that evening in

the middle of the night to her house.

508

So I had to- Oh, my ... wake up early

and do my dance competition all day.

509

I think they had already had it planned.

510

They did, because dance competition

was two hours in the opposite

511

direction of where my mom was.

512

Oof.

513

They had the bags packed in the

back of the car and drove me there

514

after the dance competition, and

didn't tell me- What emotions did

515

you feel, yeah, finding that out?

516

Yeah.

517

So now you're in the car

thinking you're going home.

518

Honestly, like, excuse my French,

I was like, "What the fuck?"

519

I think I just started to cry because

at that point I was like, "Well,

520

this is what I've been wanting,

but why would you not tell me?

521

Like, why are..."

522

I felt, again, betrayed.

523

You let me kiki with my

friends all day- Yeah.

524

No goodbyes, no preparation.

525

No.

526

Again, I imagine this feels

like another betrayal, like

527

you're being punished again.

528

Fine, you wanna go?

529

You're going right now.

530

You have no say.

531

Get in the car.

532

Let's go.

533

Absolutely.

534

So what could have been maybe

exciting for you or happy or even a

535

relief of like, "I get to go," turns

into probably anger and frustration

536

because it's an- another betrayal.

537

So angry.

538

So you lasted a month.

539

Yeah.

540

So what happened?

541

Was it just not the same life?

542

Was the relationship with your mom

not what you expected it to be?

543

What happened while you

were there for the month?

544

It was just chaotic.

545

Mm.

546

My little sister was, like, 10

or 11 at the time, 'cause I was

547

16, so she's 12 maybe, and my mom

had th- my two younger brothers.

548

So it was five of us living in, like,

a two bedroom, one bathroom house.

549

The littlest one and my sister felt...

550

I could feel she's like, "Ooh, Desiree's

the shiny new object here, but I've been

551

the one that's babysitting my brother."

552

My mom was a waitress, worked in

the service industry, and was always

553

working doubles, triples, overtime.

554

She's just working nonstop.

555

And my little sister, she was in charge

of these boys for years by herself.

556

She knew their routines like

this, and then I come in, try to

557

help, and that caused a huge rift

between me and my little sister.

558

She didn't- Mm ... really like me there.

559

She didn't want me there.

560

She didn't...

561

And I get it.

562

Like, this girl trying to come in and

take over the brothers and all the things.

563

I didn't realize how good I had it.

564

I had my own room.

565

I had my own bathroom.

566

I had my car.

567

I had my cellphone.

568

I...

569

Again, the grass wasn't always

greener on the other side.

570

And so I thought going to a new school

and being with my mom and, you know, I

571

got to eat the snacks whenever I wanted

at Pineapple John's, but here it was like

572

they were rationed out and just, you know.

573

And she was also in a relationship

with a man that I didn't really

574

particularly like either.

575

So that was made it hard because it

was very triggering for her to still

576

be in the same relationship she was in.

577

It was the same man?

578

No, no, not same man.

579

Same type of man.

580

So, you're probably being triggered or

having memories of when you were five.

581

Yes.

582

Or three, four.

583

Yes.

584

Okay.

585

So I know there's gonna be people

that, that listen to this story and

586

it's like, okay, typical teenager.

587

You're angry, so you wanna leave, and

then you do, and you look back, and it's

588

like, "Oh, life was better over there.

589

I want all of those things again."

590

But I hope that people watching this

or listening to this can move past

591

some of that 'cause I, I know how

people think about teenagers, and

592

I can hear in this story it's just

gonna be typical teenager stuff.

593

But it doesn't sound like you were

searching for a different life or

594

upset about what they had provided you.

595

You were searching for your mom and

for a connection and probably for a

596

love that- You really hadn't felt.

597

I'm sure they took care of you and, and

they provided you a great life, and you

598

were able to do all of these things, and

you had your own room and, and they had

599

money and, like, life was good- Mm-hmm

600

if we're talking about material things,

but sounds like love and connection wasn't

601

there in the way that you needed it.

602

Warm and fuzzy.

603

They are now that they have

grandkids, but with me they weren't.

604

Yep.

605

I got to do a lot of things.

606

I didn't really have a curfew, you know?

607

They didn't really...

608

Not that they didn't care,

but they were also older, and

609

they had lived through that.

610

I think the last one they

just kind of, you just get

611

like whatever on the last kid.

612

You know?

613

It- I think that's what they were just

kinda like, whatever on the last kid.

614

It all ends up working out.

615

Go ahead.

616

Right.

617

And I wouldn't say I was a bad kid.

618

Like, I, again, I never had a curfew.

619

I didn't, you know, go out.

620

I wasn't drinking and partying, none,

none of that, 'cause I was too busy.

621

But they just- ... they weren't

cuddly and soft and warm and tradition

622

of let's bake cinnamon rolls here

and do this, and it wasn't...

623

Yeah, it just wasn't warm and fuzzy

like I- Yeah ... I needed and wanted.

624

Okay.

625

So two questions.

626

What was the relationship

like when you called...

627

I know you called them,

said you wanna go back.

628

You needed to apologize.

629

You did.

630

Mm-hmm.

631

You got back.

632

What was the relationship

after you got back?

633

And now that you're an adult with your

own child and your own family, and

634

can look back on a lot of this with

adult eyes- Mm-hmm ... not teenage

635

eyes and, you know, in your heart, too,

what's the relationship like today?

636

Yeah, so I got back and it

was like nothing happened.

637

They're also- ... parents and families

that just sweep things under the rug,

638

and they don't really talk about things.

639

You just jumped right back in- Jumped

right back ... after you apologized.

640

Nothing else needed to be said.

641

Yep.

642

Literally.

643

No therapy, no- Maybe that's good.

644

Maybe that's bad.

645

I think I still hold

some resentment today.

646

I felt like I had to conform.

647

I had to be this perfect girl growing

up, and I had to have my hair perfect and

648

my skin perfect and my grades perfect,

and I had to be this person that I

649

didn't really, wasn't truly myself.

650

And so the relationship

today, it's stable.

651

I've had to do a lot of therapy knowing

that they're never gonna change, and they

652

don't remember things the same way I do.

653

They don't see the same things I

do in terms of, like, political

654

views, traveling, career.

655

You know, I don't feel like I've

ever been supported in the things

656

that I like and I wanna do.

657

So that's been very hard because, as

a mom myself, I want him to have his

658

relationship with his grandparents.

659

But then also, too, at what point do

I put the boundary in place of like,

660

"Hey, you did this to me as a kid.

661

I don't want the same thing for him"?

662

I don't know.

663

It's just hard.

664

It's stable- Yeah ... now because I

have to work really hard at- Putting up

665

boundaries, keeping them at arm's length.

666

They don't really know a lot what's

going on in my life, and I keep it

667

that way just so there's no judgment,

'cause I get judged quite a bit.

668

I get asked a lot of passive-aggressive,

judgmental questions, and

669

makes me feel like shit.

670

And so the less I share, the

less I talk to them, it's just

671

surface level with them right now.

672

What would be the things that you

don't want them to do to your son?

673

Or what are you

protecting, like, him from?

674

Judgment, shame- ... guilt.

675

Yeah.

676

And those are all things

you felt growing up?

677

Absolutely.

678

Or you experienced growing up.

679

And, and I still experience

those from them- ... to this day.

680

You brought up career.

681

Are you not in a career that they would

approve of, or that they want you in?

682

No.

683

No.

684

I went from, I was living in

Hollywood being a personal assistant.

685

They thought that was, like, "Oh,

you're out, they're, you're out,

686

they're just pl- playing around.

687

You're out there just playing around."

688

And then I became a teacher.

689

"Oh, why, why would

anybody wanna be a teacher?

690

Oh, that's, you know,

teachers are," you know.

691

And then I...

692

Which I love teachers.

693

Shout out to teachers.

694

Yeah.

695

And then I got my master's and became

a therapist, counselor, and they're...

696

It's funny because they took me

to one when I was little, but

697

they don't really believe in it.

698

Why would somebody need to...

699

Like, I think I made the comment

about, "Oh, I have a lot of clients

700

during Christmas break because they're,

you know, people need to process

701

Uncle Larry being an alcoholic."

702

I think I made the joke about

something, and, "Why would

703

somebody need to process that?

704

What does that even...

705

Just grit your teeth and go on,

and why is anybody," you know,

706

or when somebody does something

outlandish, they don't understand

707

that mental health could play a part.

708

I don't even know.

709

Just, so they don't, they don't get it.

710

They thought it was mental health

when you did something outlandish

711

as a teenager and had you committed.

712

Absolutely.

713

So then now turning around and come

full circle for me to be- become a

714

therapist and work through all my, you

know, trials and tribulations and come

715

out on the other side, I don't know.

716

I was always told, "What is

there to be anxious about?

717

What is there to be depressed about?"

718

I mean, the first five years of your

life can make up for all of that.

719

Yeah.

720

Absolutely.

721

"We've given you such a good life,

and you get whatever you want.

722

Why isn't that good enough?"

723

Oh, they thought what they did for

you erased what you experienced

724

before you got with them.

725

Mm-hmm.

726

And then I always thought they were

the problem, and I blamed them for

727

everything, particularly her, Aunt Patty.

728

Did you?

729

Yeah.

730

But also, too, I pointed out, I was

the kid that always talked back.

731

I sassed back, or I pointed out the flaws.

732

I pointed out the wrong.

733

"Well, why did you say this,

but you actually meant this?"

734

She did not like that.

735

Or, you know, her

contradictions or hypocrisy.

736

She did not like that.

737

Did you have a relationship

with their older children?

738

Are you like a little sister to them, or

were you just the girl that came in later?

739

I called them my older sisters

They're- ... my cousins, second cousins.

740

But yes, so the oldest one, I think

she's in her late 40s, Kimberly.

741

Love her.

742

She has a daughter who's 21.

743

I'm closer with her daughter, with

her 21-year-old daughter than I-

744

We all are closer in age, right?

745

Yeah, I'm 33, so I'm, like,

literally right- Okay, you're

746

kind of sitting between them.

747

Yeah.

748

Yeah.

749

Okay.

750

And then Rebecca, she always lived

in Chicago, lived in the big city,

751

and just moved back recently.

752

And then Lincoln was their youngest son.

753

I've not really been super close with him,

but with his wife I've been close with.

754

So I wouldn't say, like, super close.

755

We're not...

756

Like, we don't text on the daily.

757

We call maybe each other, like,

once a month, or we'll send each

758

other, like, a link to an article.

759

Out of all three of the kids, I'm

closest with Kimberly, their oldest one.

760

Okay.

761

Do they all have a good

relationship with their mom?

762

No comment.

763

I will share the advice that they give me.

764

Okay.

765

I can share that.

766

Curious.

767

So Kimberly, she was in the,

uh, the birthing room with me.

768

She's a nurse, and right now she's

some, like, head honcho at the

769

hospital that she works at, too.

770

So, but anyway, she...

771

Let's just say she has

very strong boundaries.

772

Okay.

773

And she's just, like, a, she's very chill.

774

She's like, "I don't let it bother me.

775

I don't listen to her.

776

I don't...

777

Like, just don't let things bother you.

778

Like, stop engaging.

779

Stop letting, just..."

780

That's always her advice.

781

"Stop engaging.

782

Stop letting things bother you.

783

Live your own life.

784

Go be happy."

785

And she did tell me, one thing she did

say, you know, 'cause it was during COVID,

786

during the Black Lives Matter movement,

and George Floyd, and I had a really big

787

argument with my family then about it.

788

They're MAGA, by the way.

789

So I asked her, I was like, you

know, "What do you think would...

790

Does this text sound okay for

her to come to therapy with me?"

791

And she's like, "Don't even bother.

792

Therapy will not help."

793

She's like, "You need to go and

process that and work through

794

that, but it won't help."

795

And then the middle one, Rebecca,

she's like, "Why do you let

796

her talk to you like that?"

797

Like, "Oh, whatever," and she's

just kind of la-di-da-di-da in her

798

own world a lot of the time, too.

799

So, and she, um...

800

Anyway, I think that they're, it's a

good relationship she has with her.

801

And then Lincoln, again, boundaries.

802

He's the one that, the best

piece of advice I got from him

803

was, "Learn what to say to her."

804

He's like, "Don't lie,

but learn what to say."

805

So that's all the advice

I've gotten from them.

806

So I think that they know.

807

So there's support there.

808

That's really what I was wondering,

is what- Mm ... what is that like?

809

Are you just, like, an anomaly or not?

810

But you have support from them.

811

I do have support from them, yes.

812

And I'm, they don't, all don't

really engage in the behavior

813

where I'm like, "I will engage."

814

I will correct.

815

Ah, I will engage.

816

I will...

817

I'm the one that's, yeah, that's me.

818

They've learned to s- Stop stressing

themselves out- ... over something they

819

can't change, and you, maybe you still

have the heart to try to change it, or you

820

s- you still desire something different.

821

I have hope that something

different will come out of this.

822

Absolutely.

823

And they clearly don't.

824

They just learn how to move through it.

825

Well, I admire your hope.

826

I do.

827

Thank you.

828

Thank you.

829

It's hard.

830

When you have the experience that you

have, and it's almost like you have

831

this opportunity to have two mothers,

and both of them fail you, but then you

832

see and you have the relationship with

your birth mom that is getting better as

833

she grows and as she's grown up, and as

she is taking care of herself, it's...

834

You want the same thing

with the other one.

835

Yes.

836

You want to see change and growth and a

better relationship because you do have

837

it here, why can't you have it here?

838

Yes.

839

Absolutely.

840

You know, I'm like, here's what

therapy is and here's what me living...

841

You know, I'm the only one that's,

besides Rebecca, that has lived outside

842

of Wrinkled County, where we grew up.

843

They travel maybe once a year,

once every three, four, five years.

844

And so I want, I want them to see my life.

845

I want them to see, you know, I

bought a home and sold another home

846

and had a baby and I have, you know,

I, I have a sleeve of tattoos now.

847

They don't understand that, and they

didn't understand, you know, why I

848

decided to wear my hair in an afro

for, you know, six years, or my curls.

849

I just want them to accept

and understand who I am.

850

And see you for who you are and

not who they want you to be.

851

Right.

852

Absolutely.

853

That's a story of so many daughters.

854

Yeah.

855

So many.

856

Yes.

857

How are you feeling?

858

I know you got emotional

telling some of that.

859

I appreciate you trusting

me to share your story with.

860

How are you feeling?

861

I'm feeling good.

862

I was a little, you know, nervous as

I said before we started recording.

863

I was like, "I'm a little nervous."

864

Yeah.

865

I think because there's some parts of

me that are not healed, where I feel

866

like I can be authentic and I know I'm

gonna be judged for some of the things

867

that I say or how I feel regarding the

relationship with both mothers, with

868

Dawn, my biological mom, and Patty.

869

And so I'm nervous about the

feedback, about the questions.

870

But then I have to remember, like,

this is my reality, this is my story,

871

this is how I saw things and this

is how I see things and this is how

872

I felt, and I have to remember that

nobody can take that away from me.

873

Yeah.

874

And how they feel is on them and not on

me and not my responsibility anymore.

875

Right.

876

And your experience is yours.

877

No one gets to decide if it was enough

or wasn't enough, or if you were, I

878

don't know, a bratty teenager or what...

879

Nobody gets to make those

decisions or assumptions for you.

880

You experienced what you did, and it

created whatever it created inside of you.

881

So, and I say that to say, like, we can't

assign one event as a traumatic event.

882

So I can't say what you

experienced inside of the home

883

with your birth mom was traumatic.

884

You have to decide if that was traumatic.

885

And so for you, it probably was.

886

And so what you experienced and

how it landed for you is what

887

created the trajectory of your life.

888

It's what created what you desired

and what you hoped for, and what you

889

needed from moms and mother figures.

890

We all want and need kind of

the same things, but it doesn't

891

always need to present the same.

892

So no one gets to decide what that is.

893

Yeah.

894

So I hope that you don't worry about

judgment from your story, because

895

it's yours, and just because it's not

what somebody else would've wanted or

896

needed, and maybe somebody would've been

totally happy with the life that they

897

got to have with your aunt and uncle.

898

That's not what you needed, and we

don't get to decide what that is.

899

Yeah.

900

Thank you for that.

901

Yes, absolutely.

902

Absolutely.

903

Is there anything that you want

to leave the listener with?

904

Yeah.

905

Circling back to hope.

906

You can still have hope.

907

And again, your story is your

story, and, you know, I think the

908

best thing you can do is focus on

yourself and be true to who you are.

909

And, you know, like I mentioned before,

is, like, nobody can take that away

910

from you, and no one else's feelings or

reactions are your responsibility anymore,

911

and that can be super hard as being the

oldest daughter, the eldest daughter.

912

And I think, you know, going through

all these trials and tribulations and

913

traumatic experiences, you can still

have a beautiful life, and create this

914

beautiful life that you wanna create.

915

I read on social media, and maybe this

will land on your heart in the way that I

916

hope it does, and then also the listeners,

kind of following up with what you just

917

said, that you can have a beautiful life.

918

This woman wrote on social

media that she finally got the

919

mother-daughter relationship that

she hoped for and desired for.

920

She just had to become the mom.

921

Oh.

922

I love that.

923

Absolutely.

924

What I'm trying to create with my son.

925

So you can have it.

926

It just may be a different role this time.

927

Yeah.

928

Yes.

929

100%.

930

Well, thank you.

931

No, thank you so much.

932

Thank you for having me.

933

That's all for today's episode of the

Mother-Daughter Relationship Show.

934

Thanks so much for

spending this time with me.

935

I hope you picked up some valuable

insights that you can start using right

936

away in your own relationship to create

deeper connection and understanding.

937

If something from today's

episode resonated with you,

938

don't keep it to yourself.

939

Share it with a mother or daughter in

your life who needs to hear this message.

940

And while you're at it, please

consider leaving a rating and

941

review so we can reach more families

and transform the way mothers and

942

daughters relate to each other.

943

For those ready to take the next

step, you can visit my website to

944

learn more about my private coaching

programs and my program designed

945

specifically for mother-daughter pairs.

946

Whether you're dealing with communication

challenges, life transitions, or

947

just wanna strengthen an already

good relationship, I'm here to help.

948

Thank you so much for listening.

949

I'll see you in the next one