Dawn Damon: Hello, bravehearted women. My guest today is an author, speaker, women's ministry director, and mom of adult twins. Her first book, Hidden Heartache: Finding Courage When Your Husband Struggles with Pornography, is now Available. She is a bravehearted woman, and today she shares her story. Welcome, Jody Allen.

Hey, Jody.

Jody Allen: Hi there, Dawn. I'm glad to be here.

Dawn Damon: Thank you so much. I'm so glad that you are joining us. Listen, Jodi, you have written a very vulnerable and somewhat heart-wrenching book, and so we're eager to hear. Why did you write this book?

Jody Allen: I really wrote it for three reasons. Of course, I walked through the pornography issue in my family, but I wrote it because the need is so great. There are so many women who are struggling with it, and there are some statistics if you're up for statistics. Right off the bat, 61% of Americans report viewing pornography.

Dawn Damon: Hmm.

Jody Allen: That's a lot of pornography. That's a lot, and then 54% of practicing Christians view pornography. 75% of Christian men and 40% of Christian women. So, the latest statistic that I've heard is that one out of every five mobile searches is for pornography. Hmm. So the need is great and is great. Yeah. And like so many women, especially Christian women, walking through those struggles, I kept it hidden, and it's just painful. It's humiliating. And so I wrote it really as an invitation just to invite women out of that shame because it's such a shameful thing, and the enemy wants to hold us captive, and it holds men captive in shame in pornography because of shame. It does the same for the wives.

Yes. And then, and really the last reason I wrote, it's because God brought so much healing to my life, Donna and I didn't wanna be stingy. I felt like. There are other people, other women who may not go to counseling and do all the things. And I said, well, let me just give my book, is not a replacement for that, but let me just give women a little slice of the truth that God has given me.

And I wanted to give a different perspective, a lot of books have been written on this topic. The husband and wife are still married, and of course, it is a huge win, but that is not my story. So I want women to know, even if it turns out the way you hoped and you prayed, that your life can still be great.

Dawn Damon: There is still hope after that. I love that you lean into the fact that whatever that statistic is, listen, this is a massive epidemic to come out of the shame is so important because it is the temptation of the enemy. If we hide and stay in the darkness with this, we're gonna continue to be bound. But if people will come out into the light, whether you're the one struggling or you're the victim of your husband's or your spouse's struggle, or even a father's or a mother's struggle that has affected you, it's so important to get that help.

Thank you for writing this book. I'm so eager to share this with our audience. So. What if you suspect someone's in pornography that you love? What are the signs that we should be looking for?

Jody Allen: I think that there are some general signs. Now I'll give you some signs, but not all of these signs would be an indication that there's a pornography issue.

So, you know, take it with a grain of salt. But I think locking the bathroom door when men go into the bathroom and spending a lot of time in the bathroom can be a sign, not making eye contact because there's just so much shame involved. So they don't really look people in the eye, or maybe not coming to bed at the same time as you, or you might wake up the next morning and your husband's not even in the bed because he slept on the couch. Oh, because I worked late. And maybe he did. But that could be a sign. Also, a change in sex drive or just avoiding intimacy altogether, or just wanting. More than normal, or having, not to be too graphic, but having issues with arousal can be a sign that he's having his needs met in other places, or maybe he's emotionally distant, or he's just checked out, and I think sometimes when.

A husband who's struggling with pornography, who's checked out, they're kind of living in that shame cycle. And then when they're not acting out and they're not in pornography, they're a little more checked in. So this cycle of being checked in and checked out could be something. Or maybe he is antisocial, or he's defensive or angry, or he's indifferent or critical of your appearance. Or if there's a financial issue, maybe he's spending money on pornography, and then the normal things like a secret email address or just deleting history, and that sort of thing. Those are some signs. Now, not all of those are signs of pornography, but those are just some things to look out for.

Dawn Damon: Those are some pretty good indicators, especially if you just rambled off that list and maybe somebody says, Ooh, I see three of those things, or four of those things happening. Then kind of the accumulation of all of that might lead you to think there's a problem here. We should be concerned. Why is this so invasive in marriage, like? Why isn't it okay? I've heard people say, well, what? What's wrong with pornography? Why can't a husband and a wife enjoy that together? It ended your marriage. Is that correct?

Jody Allen: It did. I think that the Bible is clear that marriage is between one man and one woman, not one man and one woman and a scream. So I think that it's okay to say, This is not okay in my marriage. I'm not gonna accept this.

Dawn Damon: It's righteous to say it's not me being a prude. It's not me saying, oh, I don't wanna get with this. It's literally protecting, as the Bible calls it, the marriage bed. Right, right. Protecting the marriage relationship. And so in your case, you were not able to have that wonderful Christian fairytale ending.

Sometimes we think about a marriage restored, but it's okay if a marriage cannot be restored. Is that right? If you find your husband or your spouse involved in pornography, it doesn't mean you have to leave.

Jody Allen: Absolutely. And there are so many marriages that are restored after a pornography addiction that happens. Of course, it happens, but it also happens that women are divorced. But I think fewer women who are divorced talk about it. Because there's so much shame involved, especially in the Christian culture when it comes to divorce, and 'cause I know that I have walked through that before myself, right? I was at a retreat a few months ago, and I felt like God said to me, Jodi, you don't have to keep living in the shame of being divorced. And nobody was actively shaming me. It was just that internal dialogue.

Dawn Damon: Yeah, I understand having gone through divorce myself and something that, nothing that I wanted or nothing that I chose, but again, the breakdown of the marriage and some of the infidelity and things that you're speaking of, and it is one of those areas where it's like.

You're right. There is so much shame around it, and it is the internal dialogue, but the internal dialogue comes from the fact that we understand what is being said in religious circles and the right. We've been in those conversations and never thought we'd be in that population of divorced people, and oh, now here we are.

So we know how the church can be. Or whatever can be very, very difficult. What did you learn after this or in this process? How did it not crush you or break your identity as a woman?

Jody Allen: Well, you know, God is such a great teacher. He's such a gracious teacher, and I did learn a lot through that process. Some things that I didn't like, some things that I did like, but I think I had to learn and to deal with my own trauma and to stop minimizing my pain and really to take an honest look in the mirror and see the things that I need to work on myself. So I think dealing with my own stuff and my own person is something that I learned through that process.

But I also learned to parent differently. 'Cause as you said, I have twins, but I learned to just because the road that we walked, we parented differently, and my kids would say, well, so and so has this or so-and-so has that. I'm like, well, we are Allen's and we do it. Allen's do. And if we had an alcohol issue in our home, we would probably handle that differently. But because pornography was the issue in our home, we just parented differently. The other thing is I learned that God's not broke. I mean, we did, my ex-husband did a treatment center. We did counseling. We spent so much money. But you know what? God is a generous God. He's just a generous God.

So I just learned that God is not broke, and I also learned. Some people give terrible advice, so you really can't listen to everybody. You just have to be discerning in who you listen to. But Donna, I think the three biggest things that I learned are that I can do hard things. I can. I can do hard things. I may not like it. : I may not wanna do it, but I can do hard things, and I have a choice. I'm not a victim of my circumstances, even though my life is being affected by another person's choices; I still have a choice in the matter, and you can relate to this. Last one, really, is that divorce is not a death sentence. It's hard and it's terrible, but you can make it through. And God loves divorced people, too.

Dawn Damon: Yes, absolutely. And there's so much grace in your words, and thank you so much for sharing that, because God does love divorced women. You know, God loves the woman who is still believing in faith, right? For that miracle, and it could take time, but I like what you said, you know, and you said you gotta be careful about the advice that you give because sometimes our advice can be pray more, forgive more, be patient, hang in there.

Sometimes the advice needs to be to draw a boundary. I know one woman who was in a situation and she had on a heart monitor, she was experiencing so much anxiety and she felt so much shame about herself, and her confidence was affected, and then there was lying because she would confront. And so she felt like she was living with a liar.

And at some point you just, she just needed permission to, you were called to peace. You don't have to live like that. Your physical being. It's broken down. You need to get into a place where you can recover. Because it is traumatic, right?

Jody Allen: Very much so. Definitely the hardest thing that I've ever walked through, and I think because of the beauty of how God created marriage and the sanctity of the sexual union between the husband and the wife, when that's violated, it just rips at your soul.

Even though you can understand it, you can know that it's an addiction, it's addiction. Right. You know it, it is something that somebody can't just pray more and believe that's right. You've gotta go into re-addiction recovery.

Dawn Damon: Yeah. And there's a long process to getting set free from pornography addiction.

Freedom is possible. It's possible, yes. So, what are some things that, if a woman is struggling in the same situation, we've just kind of talked about it, but what are some practical things that she can do? What are some quotes from scriptures, people, and counseling? What does she do?

Jody Allen: Well, I think one thing that was really important for me was just learning how to express my feelings. When my ex-husband was at a treatment center, we had the opportunity to express our emotions in a very specific way, and it was, we had to say, I feel blank. And you put in how you're feeling about blank. Because? Because I think a lot of us grew up. With the basic emotions, I feel mad, I feel sad, and I feel happy. And this gave us language to be able to express how we're feeling. And so I took my little feelings will 'cause I love a good feeling will and just worked through that for a really long time. I feel helpless about your actions because there's nothing I can do or say to make you choose something different, or I feel skeptical about your recovery because I have heard a lot of empty promises, or I feel distant in our relationship because I had to guard my heart to be healthy. And I think that's just a simple format that we can use to clarify and hopefully to make our conversations more productive. So I think that's a very important thing for women to learn how to do,

Dawn Damon: But I'm really intrigued by that tell. And just in case there's someone listening that doesn't know what a feelings wheel is, I love that you use that. Can you share what it is?

Jody Allen: Yes, it is a wheel that has like six basic emotions around the middle of it, and then along the outside, there are some other emotions like discontent or unworthy or lots of emotions around that that we don't even think about. And I'll be honest with you, sometimes I. When my kids were little, I would say if one of 'em was struggling, I would say, well, we, let's bring out the feelings will so we can really get to the bottom. And they're like, I don't wanna see that feelings will, it's just a great way to express how we feel. Gives you language, gives you, gives, gives you language.

Dawn Damon: Yeah, and you can identify, and then when you know, it's like, 'cause if we just say, I'm angry, well, anger, that's the secondary emotion, right? That's just the blanket that covers all of the other feelings. So it doesn't, we don't get anywhere. So sidebar. But yes. So you were using the feeling wheel, and that's something that a woman can do is really get in touch with her emotions and how they're affecting her.

Jody Allen: Yeah. Also, I think I had a Christian counselor and also had a csat, which is a certified sex addiction therapist. And a lot of women may balk at that because they're like, well, I'm not the person who's struggling, but I wasn't the one who had the issue. But so, but they can help wives walk through that as well. So I feel like having a great CSAT is very helpful. Another practical thing for women is learning to pray the scripture. I'm a big fan of praying scripture, and you know, when you walk through hard things, you are just emotionally devastated and you're exhausted, and it's really hard to think of words. And so why not use God's words? That's what I say. And the treatment center where my ex-husband was, they actually gave us some verses. So, my kids and I would get around our ottoman at night, and we would pray those five verses, and you just put your name in a verse, for example. John 8:32. It may help you know the truth, and the truth sets you free, and you just put your name in there. Say, may I know the truth and be set free? So just putting your name in verses and praying God's will for your life.

I think that's a great tool for women to use and also for worship. I am not the kind of person who leaves my TV on or during the day, or when I get home, I don't automatically turn on music or anything. But when that happened in my life, every morning when I got up, I turned on worship music. So my house was constantly filled with worship. I felt like that was very important to keep me focused.

Dawn Damon: Beautiful. So the name of your book is called, Hidden Heartache: Finding Courage When Your Husband Struggles with Pornography. Can you tell us a little bit more about what we can find on the inside of that book?

Jody Allen: I think that you'll find hope for sure, because where there's Jesus, there's hope. So I think that you'll find hope. You'll also find help. I have at the end of every chapter, there's something called A Call to Courage, which is just a baby step that you can take to help move you further along in your journey. There is a feelings wheel. Or there is praying scripture. I have some scriptures in there.

You can just plug your name in those and pray Scripture. And one chapter, this is gonna sound really cheesy, but I, when women have a struggle with this nature, their self-esteem tanks. Mm-hmm. And I, one day, this sounds so cheesy, I just say write 10 things that you really like about yourself. Because we just had to remember who we are, and then remind you to replenish yourself. Go bake a cake or play the piano, or take a walk, and be sure and find a therapist. Just simple things like that at the end of every chapter, just to get women thinking about being healthy and being whole, and taking those steps toward that.

Jody Allen: I think there are. Two things that I want to say. First of all, there is hope. You have to tell somebody. You really have to tell somebody we don't want to. Live in that shame. So you have to make the choice to tell somebody, but I also want women to know that you do not have to just squeak by and survive right now.

It may seem that way, but you can get to the other side of this pain and this heartache and flourish because pornography does not have to win. Because we serve a God of hope. And when the Israelites finally left Egypt after years of captivity, they didn't leave empty-handed. The Bible says that they plundered the Egyptians, that was their captors.

Dawn Damon: Yes. Wow. I love that. That's a great picture that we can leave with the best of things because that's God's purpose for us in any situation. I don't believe he authors the trauma and the evil experiences, but he certainly will use whatever we walk through to refine us and make us better. That's his promise. All things are gonna be working together. So, for a woman listening to this, I just wanna say to my bravehearted sisters and audience, either way, if you're in a marriage and you believe God has given you a word and you are gonna stay there, guard your heart, protect your mind, pray fast, and intercede, and trust God for recovery.

Or if you feel like the Holy Spirit is said. You're free. You don't have to survive this anymore. You can walk and leave room for me to do my work in that individual. Whatever choice God is with you, be free from shame. Let the Lord lead you into that promised land, and there is great hope. Jody Allen, thank you so much for being with us today. How can we find your book, and how can we find you?

Jody Allen: You can find me at jodyallenwrights.com. That's my website. You can find my book there, but it's also available on Amazon. It's available online at Walmart and Barnes and Noble, and all the places. I'm also on Instagram and Facebook.

Dawn Damon: Alright, and we'll have all of those links for you in the show notes here today. And if you are struggling with identity and you'd like to take The 7-Day Identity Challenge for Midlife Women of Faith. You can visit my website as well, braveheartedwoman.com. And there you'll find it. Let's start walking into God's best for our Lives.

So this is Dawn Damon, your Braveheart mentor. I'll leave you like I always do. Is this your time to find your brave and live your dreams!