Canada feeds the world—so why are thousands of people in our own communities facing food insecurity every day?

In this episode of The Future Herd, I sit down with Treska Watson, who leads food security initiatives at The Mustard Seed Street Church in Victoria, BC. Treska operates on the front lines of a broken system, managing a food rescue programme that diverted 3.1 million pounds of food last year alone. But this isn't just a story about logistics—it's about dignity, collaboration, and reimagining what a food system rooted in hope could look like.

We unpack the paradox of abundance and hunger, explore why "best-before" dates are more suggestion than law (yes, that yogurt is probably fine), and dive into the innovative "Viewfield" food hub model where multiple organizations co-locate to share resources and ideas. Treska shares why she believes humans are "pack animals" who need each other, and why a choice-based food bank model changes everything for the communities they serve.

In this conversation, we cover:

• The Hope vs. Fear Framework: How to lead with hope even when the data is daunting.
• Food Rescue at Scale: The logistics of moving 3.1 million pounds of food to 65+ agencies.
• Dignity Over Charity: Why the "choice model" matters more than pre-packed hampers.
• Food Literacy: The truth about expiration dates, packaging waste, and consumer education.
• Collaboration as Leadership: How the Viewfield warehouse became a collision point for innovation.

Resources & Links:

• The Mustard Seed Street Church: mustardseed.ca
• The Future Herd: thefutureherd.ca
• Flourish School Food Society (mentioned in episode)
• South Island Farm Hub (mentioned in episode)

A Note on Sharing: If this conversation sparked something, don't keep it to yourself. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. You don't have to rescue 3.1 million pounds to make a difference—you just have to stay curious and pass it on.

Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsh.

Welcome to The Future Herd.

Here's a paradox for you.

Canada feeds the world and yet right here at home, thousands of people

face food insecurity every single day.

So what gives today on the podcast, Tresco Watson joins me to unpack

that tension from the front lines.

She's at the Mustard Seed Street Church in Victoria, British Columbia, where

they've turned food rescue into an art form 3.1 million pounds diverted

last year, distributed through a network of over 65 community partners.

But Tresco is not just moving food, she's moving the needle on how we

think about hunger, dignity, and what it means to truly feed a community.

In this episode, we'll get into why best before dates are more suggestion than law.

Spoiler, that yoghourt in your fridge is probably still fine, and we'll talk about

how choice-based food bank model restores.

Dignity instead of dispensing charity.

And what happens when you create a space like View Field?

A warehouse where farmers, chefs, educators, and food rescuers don't just

coexist, they collide, they collaborate.

Maybe even they conspire.

Oh, and will blue sky a future?

Whereas Tresco puts it, in a perfect world, maybe our jobs wouldn't even exist.

Ambitious.

Maybe necessary.

Absolutely.

Ready?

Let's do it.

Treska, welcome to the Future Herd.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

Now, I, I've gotten into the habit of throwing a very

abstract and wild first question.

Uh, to start off my conversation with folks.

It's kind of a litmus test, but it's really an invitation

to take it wherever you wish.

What does the future mean to you?

Yeah.

Wow.

That's a big question.

Jesse.

does the future mean to me?

Well, I mean, the future means a lot of things to me.

I think, uh, where we're sitting globally right now is there are

a lot of folks living in fear.

Uh, and, and fear is a really big, you know, motivator for some, and, and driver

for some, uh, but our, the organisation that I'm, I'm lucky enough to be a part

of and lead is, uh, rooted in hope.

So the future to me, uh, still has hope and has, there's lots of hope

to be, to be focused on, and, and as you said in our, uh, pre-interview,

sometimes I like to blue sky it, and in the face of all this fear.

I'm just

Time really trying.

in hope and stay in, stay in the positive.

And what, what can be done?

What can we fix?

How can we affect change?

Uh, because the fear is everywhere, everywhere you look.

So I think that's what the, right now, that's what the future means

to me, uh, more than ever is hope.

Right on.

And, and I, I'm the same.

I, I look to the horizon.

I look to the blue sky, uh, for a sense of hope, for a sense of possibility.

And there is much I I want to get into today in terms of talking

about the Mustard Street, uh, the Mustard Seed Street Church,

and the work that you guys do.

But to your point of what you evoked in that sense of fear a, around the future,

uh, let's start with the word food security and the concept of food security.

'cause I think for a lot of people, it's something that's kind of

there in the framework, but they don't think about very often.

And similarly, I suspect you're gonna unpack it in a manner that may not.

The traditional kind of policy, wonk definition, but is something that is maybe

a little more meaningful for, for folks who food, uh, insecurity is something

that they're facing on a regular basis.

Great, uh, great intro.

I mean, I do a lot of work in food security as you call it, but the

The truth of the work that we do here.

Seed Street Church is really, truly meeting people in

the depths of food insecurity.

And that is, uh, you know, the flip side to that coin that maybe

isn't talked about as frankly and as openly, uh, as it should be.

Food security is a funny term.

You know, my family and friends for a long time when I started working

with this organisation, didn't really understand what food security was.

They didn't have a sense of what we were doing or what the larger mission was.

And I, I get that, uh, and I am grateful to COVID for that of all things.

Uh, COVID brought a lot of blessings and one of them was that, uh, food security

started being talked about around many more tables when folks started to realise

how connected our sectors were, how connected our world is, our food systems.

You know, food security became a real, a real topic for people.

People started wondering where their food was coming from a little bit more.

They started realising that food was not as stable as they thought it was,

and I am grateful for that because the work that we do every day, I mean, we,

we have a large food rescue programme.

I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point in this, in this gathering.

But we also operate a food bank.

And so I see the evidence of food insecurity daily

walking through our doors.

Yeah.

I don't know if that fully answers your question, but I went off on a

little bit of a COVID tangent there.

No, but relevant because it, it speaks to kind of one of the, the, the

focuses of this podcast, which is literacy and, and fostering greater literacy of our

food systems, greater literacy of all the.

Elements or, or, uh, uh, weak points, for lack of a better phrase

that our current food system has.

And I agree.

One of the, the, the kind of silver linings of, of the pandemic has been the

way in which food security and the price of food, let alone where food comes from.

Has become more visible, more legible, uh, uh, for people to understand.

So, you know, before we, I, I do wanna talk about kind of how the, the

food bank in particular, but the, the larger food system that you're engaging

with, some of the insights, some of the, the new ways of operating, but.

But before we get there, let, let's unpack the food insecurity a bit more.

'cause I think to your point, you, you have a perspective on the, dare

I say it, the pervasiveness of food insecurity that a lot of people

either don't see or don't want to see.

But it, it speaks to an element of our food system that's kind of

contradictory, which is that people are food insecure, uh, in, in a country

where we're feeding the world ironically.

Uh, so I'd love for you to kind of unpack that a little further so that you

know, those of listening and watching, uh, who may not be as familiar as you

are in, in terms of the nature of.

Uh, again, how food insecurity is something that is not in isolation, but

is something that is actually kind of prevalent, uh, throughout our country.

Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, there's so many

Yeah.

can go with that.

Food security, food insecurity, pardon me, is really prevalent and

that's a big part of the work that we do, uh, with the food banking.

You know, we see just about anybody you can think of, walk through

our doors, gone are the days of.

Knowing what

what type of client inmates we're going to be

at a food bank.

Food

when security impacts everyth

And that is, you know, back to that COVID pandemic

pandemic conversation.

Something that I think a lot

became far more aware of.

We are of course on Vancouver Island, so we are all often talking about

the unique, uh, situation that we

find selves

Should there be, uh.

A major

your limit

an earthquake for instance, how long would we have before we

would be in a bad situation here on the island if we were cut off

cut off.

food systems of the mainland?

You know?

So we're constantly having conversations at many tables that I sit at around how we

How

a more stable food system, how we create a more local.

Stable food economy and, and food insecurities is at the root of all of

of

back to that fear versus hope.

You know, you have to be real, you have to be realistic about what's

possible and what could happen.

Uh, we've had all sorts of things happen to us in the last few years.

One year we were

ordering our

ordered our

order.

hampers, and then the floods in BC happened.

All of the highways washed out and all of

All of our product,

side of that flood.

So we had to, you know, do.

We had to pivot, which is a word that not everyone likes to hear after, uh,

years of using it in, in the pandemic.

But we really, we had to pivot quickly and we

we

figure out

figure out call,

1200 families at Christmas time with, with no supplies or not, at least

at least

supplies that we thought were coming.

So, you know, I think that

I think there's

and, and conversely the conversation around food

security,

for everyone.

Everyone

everyone has.

So

That food is

you just, where folks come together and work community together and

um, I think quite like Victoria and we see it is very likely to be able to live here,

is not an inexpensive city to live in.

I think that it's tied to so many other parts of what's going

on in our world, whether that.

Be wages, uh, rental costs, all sorts of things.

The cost of living, of course, gas now with, uh, with, uh,

everything that's going on in the world, gasoline and skyrocketing.

You know,

you know,

not

not

It's not easy to make

innovation and.

And every day I meet people and talk with people that, you know, have to

make terrible decisions between whether or not they buy diapers or pay rent.

And that's the reality of food insecurity.

And, and that affects everyone, probably more people than you realise.

Well, and the, the cascading effect that it creates,

that when people are hungry, they're not able to make the right decisions.

And you know, when they have, uh, housing insecurity, food security becomes even

more pronounced because they're having stress 'cause they're not eating and

they're, again, it starts to get in there.

But there's another element to this that I feel is invisible to most

people that you sort of alluded to, but also gets into another.

Key role that your organisation plays, which is food rescue, food

reclamation, re recognising that a lot of people don't realise moving

food and the labour of moving food is a key element of our system that in,

in my words, is prone to dysfunction.

But it's why the work you guys are doing is so important because when

you start to understand how much food is wasted, how much food, you know.

Good and should be eaten by people who are hungry.

But you need to your point about the flood, get it to those people, get it

to those communities compounded when you're on an island, uh, as well.

So help me understand that.

Help me unpack that because on the one hand IP think people

think of food banks as, you know, a place where people can get.

Food, but there's a distribution, there's a system, there's labour

elements to all of that, that a, a again, address these larger issues

of food security and food insecurity.

That, that I'd love for you to unpack and, and, and give some insights into

the work you guys are doing and, and the stuff you that you're learning.

Sure.

Absolutely.

So our

our organisation.

it's a big organisation and the food bank is

Think is a really important piece of work that we do, so

also

are also fortunate them to run,

uh, what we call our food security distribution centre.

And so the Mustard Seed operates a food rescue programme.

Uh, we started with.

11 Thrifty Foods, grocery stores rescuing about 400,000

pounds of food, um, per year.

Uh, and that

and that was great.

small programme and it, and it worked really well.

And, and, and that food was distributed to a group of nonprofit agencies

in the Victoria area that we like to call the Food Share Network.

Uh, and that programme was going strong when I came on,

uh, to the Mustard Seed in 2019.

Little did I know what was around the corner in 2020.

So my focus and mandate was just to.

Grow our food rescue programme and just really get, get more involved

in the community, see if we could grow it, see if we could, uh,

expand both our reach and, and our access to some of that rescued food.

And rescued food is an interesting topic.

You know, it's, it's certainly something, uh, that we benefit from.

And, and we, last year we rescued 3.1 million pounds of food from

Right on.

partners.

So it has grown.

I mean, it's, we've gone from 11 stores to 33 stores.

We've added a lot of farms to, to our, uh, compliment as well.

And now 3.1 million pounds of food came through the centre last

year, and we're incredibly proud of that and grateful for that.

But as you say, I mean, that takes a great deal of work and coordination.

We have three trucks on the road five days a week.

We have a whole team of volunteers that has to sort through that food.

A lot of what comes through our doors is, is wonderful high quality product.

And that's, you know, that's a part that we should probably get

into about how broken that system is and how, you know, why does

that food end up in our warehouse?

But to, to your point, you know, food rescue is a really big initiative and it's

something that really has a huge impact.

That 3.1 million pounds of food last year went out to now over.

65 agencies across our region.

And so those are community food kitchens, free pantries, student run

initiatives, uh, seniors housing, cooking facilities, anywhere that is

operating a nonprofit that wants to share, uh, food and, and build community.

Is what we're all about.

And of course with that volume of food, some of it goes to our food bank, but we

certainly can't utilise all that food.

So our mandate is to get that out to as many partners as possible and

reach as many people as possible.

We did do an impact report, uh, a couple of years ago with our Food

Share network members, which are, you know, as I said, over 65 agencies

picking up at our warehouse every day.

And we know that that food is reaching over 65,000 people per month in Victoria.

Now that is a great deal of people, but when you think about Victoria's population

and food insecurity, that actually attracts at least 10% of our population

is what I would consider food insecure.

And so that's what's happening in our food rescue programme and,

and it's having a massive impact.

It's not the solution, but it's certainly a big part of the puzzle right now for us.

And it's a part of the puzzle that I wish more people could

see and more people could understand.

You know, partly because of your point about labour, right?

That I, I certainly know, you know, I, I'm in Ontario and I, I know

people in Ottawa and Toronto who.

If they understood the opportunity of food rescue, if they understood the

opportunity to not just supply food banks, but supply an entire ecosystem

of social agencies and community groups and you know, youth centres.

That is impact, like that's the kind of impact that makes people

feel really good about the time and labour that they're putting into.

So on the one hand, I feel this gets back to the literacy piece, right?

Of as people put more attention and interest in where their

food comes from, we get into the side of where's your food going?

Like if it can only last five days at the store, what happens at day six?

Right?

And, and on the one hand.

The work you're doing is phenomenal from a food security perspective.

I, I do want to tease out from you some of the thoughts you have that

you're seeing from this perspective.

Like I'm hypothesising that maybe there are issues with packaging that we could be

creating regulations around so that it's not difficult when you guys are dealing

with products that are gonna be thrown out and there's all sorts of plastic.

And there's all sorts of other things that are convenient for

the consumer, but not convenient.

If we want a sustainable food system that makes sure that there is no waste,

that all this, I, again, I'm digressing here, but I'm curious from, you know,

on the one hand you're talking about the impact, on the one hand you're talking

about the kind of logistics of it all, of having these trucks going out there.

But you know, to take a digression, you know, from your leadership

perspective of having a view of this system that many people don't,

what are some of those solutions?

What are some of the pain points?

What are some of the opportunities that other people wouldn't see because

they're not seeing the extent to which all this food can and should be diverted

from landfills and go to people?

Maybe go to compost if it's not gonna go to people, but still be part of a, a, a

a much more, not just sustainable, but intelligent, uh, applicable, uh, system,

Yeah.

all excellent points.

Love every bit of that di digression, tangent.

Um, you know, the, the packaging is a nightmare, I'm not gonna lie.

We, you know,

you know?

with those, you know, strawberry clamshells and raspberry packaging and

all the, I mean, berries are the worst.

Because they come in these beautiful, rigid plastic containers

and they have to be dismantled.

And what happens often is we'll get some with, you know, there's

one or two berries that have turned and the rest are about to turn.

So a lot of the product we do receive, like you say, ma uh, gets to us on

day six, for instance, and we need to get that product turned around

and back out our doors within 24 hours for it to have true impact.

Right?

We don't wanna be giving out food that's just gonna perish.

However, on that note, a

A lot

great food does come through our doors that, you know,

perhaps a tomato with a blemish or a banana with a, you know, one

sort of bruise on one of the bunch.

And, and we will receive that the, the other pieces that grocery stores

have to predict when they order.

So sometimes we'll receive, quite frankly, beautiful produce that has no business

being part of the food rescue programme.

But there it is and we're excited about it.

But to your points, you know, those, that is a pain point.

The recycling and the compost.

Is massive.

We do incur a great deal of cost in having recycling and

composting and garbage picked up.

Frequently how we

How we try to

that and

that and how we try to solve that on a larger

is the compost piece is we're really trying to

try to connect

our goal this year to connect with more and more farmers

and folks that can utilise that compost because right now, you know,

you.

that's an area where we can see, uh, opportunity for, for our waste store

and our, our footprint to be reduced.

We have gotten, uh, a great deal of our organic footprint down to

what I like to call a doll roar.

It was.

Sitting around 10 to 12% waste.

Uh, when, when we started things at the warehouse in 20 18, 20 19, and now we're

down to just under 5%, our compost.

And so a big part of that is we have a chef on team, on our team now, and our

chef will take a lot of food and create meals outta food that maybe can't go into

a hamper or go back out to an agency.

So he's doing things like freeze drying, dehydrating.

He's creating community meals for our unhoused folks downtown, and taking

food like those tomatoes that can't go back out to another organisation

and, and creating a really great.

Sauce or soup from those, and that's how we're trying to tackle it.

Um, but I, the recycling, I mean, I'm all ears on how, how we could fix those

systems and, and what we do there.

We do our best to recycle.

And our chef is adamant about, you know, recycling everything that comes through

our doors, whether it's styrofoam or plastic or glass or what have you.

And even when.

Often on the island, it can be challenging to recycle certain items.

He's always seeking new ways to, to find ways to recycle,

and ways to reduce packaging.

I mean, that's a, a really great question.

That is a pain point for us.

Um, and it's certainly

Certainly an example

Food

that

so

itself where I can get

from really beautiful tropical locations, especially

in the case of fruit.

And so.

mandate is just to do everything

everything.

make sure the food goes as far as it can and is still useful.

Uh, and then beyond that, it's my hope that farmers can take over from there.

We do have a couple of pig farmers that come and pick up, product that is, uh,

no longer safe for human consumption.

And so we're just trying to keep that chain going, get that food out into

our system in one way or another.

Right on.

And, you know, part of, to your point about the packaging, uh, and,

and the policy side of that, part of what I want to see, and this is

nakedly, my agenda for wanting you to be part of the future heard, is

to have voices like yours shaping how we see the food system as a whole.

So that instead of, you know, you seeing recycling as just a pain

point, which it is, you also see, uh, uh, the recycling and packaging.

On behalf of everyone else 'cause you're experiencing that pain point at scale.

But I would argue that the family is experiencing that pain

point on a micro scale as well.

And when we look at all these products just on the, how do we sell it rather

than the full cycle of its experience that after it's been marketing that

clamshell for the fruits not really friendly, there might be a better way.

Uh, okay.

I, I'm digressing again.

I, I wanna.

Come back though to, to something you said that I thought was really important,

which was the chef processing and the way in which, you know, are there, and, and

this might be a little too nerdy so we, we can get off this quick, but are there

regulations like, are there CFIA stuff that we should be thinking of changing

to make, uh, food security easier?

But also food insecurity, something that can be addressed quickly because

you alluded to it when you said that often you'll get produce that's still

perfectly good and maybe the store made a dec a bad decision in terms

of how they were projecting supply.

But also sometimes, like in some cases, it strikes me that best before dates

are really just passive suggestions and not necessarily binding regulations.

Part of that's the literacy piece of what the end user knows.

But my question is are do you feel, uh, hampered by some regulations that don't

anticipate the innovations in food rescue?

The opportunities to your point about processing that now you have

one chef, what if you had two?

What if you had three?

What if you could start creating products outta this stuff like firm?

Fermenting stuff that really extends the shelf life in a way that allows

this food to be, uh, further utilised.

Great question and, and great point.

You know, I don't feel that we feel hampered at to date

on, on some of those pieces.

I think that there is, uh, a broadening awareness of food security.

Certainly when I first began, a lot of the stores had a lot

of concern about liability.

They wanted to make sure that the food that they were giving

to us was being treated properly.

And of course, I mean, that's why we are a natural fit.

For running the food rescue programme here in Victoria.

We've been working in food for a long time.

We have the refrigerated trucks, we have the infrastructure.

However, um, as things have progressed in, in the

Progress.

I've been here, the, the stores are very understanding of what happens

next and that ultimately it is our responsibility when we collect that food.

And we do have use with most of our partners to that effect.

Uh, and, and that we, the, the same goes for our agencies that we distribute to.

Once that food is in their hands, it's up to them to use common sense.

And some of those old adages that, that are, you know, probably part of all

of our childhoods, you know, like when you smell the milk, does it smell sour?

Don't use it.

You know, it's not really about the best before dates.

You're absolutely right.

Best before dates are a suggestion.

Uh, food Banks, Canada and Second Harvest.

Uh, both governing bodies of the food rescue programmes all across the country,

uh, have come out with charts and, and

I.

handling rescued food so that it's very clear, for instance, a canned item.

As long as the can isn't bulging or looking or mislabeled or no label,

you know, doesn't look rusty or anything like that, it's gonna last

two years beyond its date safely.

You can safely distribute that.

Five years, not so much.

And that is, you know, that is a literacy piece, that's an education piece.

A lot of people will wanna clean out their pantry and donate it to

the food bank, you know, and, and as much as we appreciate that, we

don't want your 10-year-old pasta.

We don't want your 20-year-old cans, but there is a shelf life beyond those dates.

So that's a really important piece.

And I do think that that is a policy level conversation.

I know that, um, some places in Europe are really tackling that differently.

You know, sell by dates versus best before dates because.

Part of the education piece is making and, and I personally think kids

are a great way to go with this.

Going into schools and teaching kids at best before dates are not, like your

milk is not going to expire on March 12th just because it says that that is

something that we teach young and then they can go home and teach their parents

because folks, that's a sales pitch.

Let's just be real.

The grocery stores want you to throw out that yoghourt.

Buy more yoghourt is fermented.

That stuff lasts for a very long time beyond the expiry date.

Now I'm on a tangent, but our, you know, our chef is always looking at

different ways to utilise that food.

Developing a product is certainly a conversation we've had a few times.

Could we develop a hot sauce?

Could we develop, you know, a soup or a stew brand?

You know, something like that.

And certainly the, the regulations as they are right now don't allow us to create a

product and sell it out of rescued food.

But we have had started to have those conversations and there are some food

banks in our region that have started to work with some freeze dried product.

It's certainly, certainly a conversation that's happened.

Right now we're focused more on sharing food out to other agencies

that work within our warehouse.

We have a school food programme that operates out of our warehouse, a separate

nonprofit that we're really excited to be, uh, partnered with and part of.

And so the, a great example, uh, in that

Nothing.

do get a great deal of bananas in, there's a lot of

bananas are big in food rescue and.

We'll get a great deal of bananas in and, and, and so many bananas that

we don't know what to do with them.

And so what we've done is we've, uh, partnered with the school food programme

and they've partnered with a local bakery.

So those bananas get processed by our volunteers frozen into

bags, sent out to the bakery.

The bakery makes banana bread and sells it back to the food school, food

programme at a reduced rate because the bananas have been provided for them.

So we're just

Just trying to create.

economy bits right now while talking about what the future

could hold about perhaps developing.

Yeah, some products

Product.

which would definitely require some new legislation.

Right on.

And, and I do want to spend some time talking about the kind of

blue sky of that circular economy.

'cause I think that's where you and I could have a lot of fun.

But before I forget, I do want to come back to kind of the, the

grassroots, the ground floor, which is certainly in my lifetime, the

concept of the food bank has changed.

And, and what I mean by that is.

You know, back when I was younger, they all kind of resembled each

other and they all had a kind of similar vibe and a similar culture.

But now right across the country, there's kind of a diverse approach

to that type of organisation.

So I, I'd love to hear how you guys approach the kind of food

bank configuration because it's no longer just about distributing food.

It's often cultural in terms of how you're kind of framing

the relationship of, of having.

Giving access to food and helping people deal with food insecurity.

Yeah, sure.

Great point.

Uh, food banks have changed a lot.

They're, they began, uh, popping up in, in Canada, uh, in 19 83, 19 84.

I believe.

We were one of the first ones that, uh, that were operating.

The mustard seed's been operating for about 50 years, but we've

been food banking since they began in the early eighties.

and, and I know that it has changed a lot.

So there is always going to be a component of food banking

that is, you know, folks that

That are particularly unhoused

or

or living in

um,

transitional,

do want those, uh, what we think of as traditional food

bank items like, you know, shelf stable items, craft dinner, Mr.

Noodles.

Cans of soup, et cetera, and that's great.

There's always a place for that.

But food banking has shifted a great deal, certainly since I've been involved,

and the shift has been towards, uh, more

more fresh product,

more perishable and fresh product, but nutrient dense and

dignity of joy.

meeting people where they're at.

So where what

What

here at the Mustard Seed is we've created a choice model, and I

think a lot of food banks are moving in that direction, and that allows folks to

come in and see what's on offer that day and pick what works for their family.

You know, a lot of people don't know what to do with chickpeas.

Some people don't know what to do with goats milk, and that's okay.

And we can try and help them or download recipes or share ideas with them.

But if your kids aren't going to eat.

You know, tuna, then take

peanut better,

Right?

We

We don't know what.

for your family and we don't know what your facility looks like or what

your cooking, uh, facilities look like.

So we wanna make

Wanna make sure that.

opportunity for people to choose what's best for them.

So that's one really big piece, and I think I see a lot of food

banks moving in that, into that realm, rather than just handing a

bag of product across the counter.

You know, you get what you get.

That's, that it's, it doesn't work that way anymore.

And that's not appropriate for so many folks.

You know, whether we have, you know, sometimes we'll have people come through

in their home of, of four adults and they, they have very specific needs,

whether they have dietary restrictions or different needs, gluten-free, et cetera.

We always try to make sure there are options for folks.

And then we have some families that are new to Canada and a lot of our

produce is very, very strange to them.

And so.

So

wanna

we wanna make sure that

for you, no matter who you are when you walk through our doors.

And then the other piece around what we do at our downtown location is we

have our, uh, our hospitality ministry.

And what that

what that is basically.

drop-in centre.

It's where folks can come and get a hot meal, they can get a cup of coffee,

they can get a muffin, they can sit around a table, they can communicate

with people and find community.

Listen to some music.

Sometimes there's bingo, sometimes there's art.

Uh, but mostly it's just breaking bread and sharing food around a table.

So we offer a hot lunch, uh, five days a week, and then we do dinners on the

weekends and breakfasts once a month.

And so that piece around, uh, what we do is our doors to something

beyond just coming in, getting your box or bag of food and leaving.

We want people to feel like they can find community here because that's a really

big part of how you break some of the stigmas and some of the cycles of poverty.

And, and let's double down on that kind of de-stigmatization

because I, I, I think we as a society are on the one hand, like there's the

de-stigmatization of mental health, which is an ongoing process, which granted.

I think in our lifetime we've seen a lot of progress, but there's

much progress, uh, still to come.

And it strikes me that the same thing applies to hunger because part of the, the

vision I'm entertaining as we're having this conversation is a scenario in which.

More than the quote unquote, 10% of people who face specific food insecurity

make use of these types of community settings, these types of community

services, partly 'cause to your point, we don't wanna waste any food.

So if the food's gonna be.

Throw it away anyway, we might as well get people eating it, but also because

there is a need to foster those social connections that, that sense of belonging.

So tell me about the, I'll, I'll use the word struggles.

Uh, maybe I'll be more diplomatic and say efforts, uh, to de-stigmatize,

uh, food insecurity and, and two.

Kind of change the culture that we as a society, I think

still have, uh, towards hunger.

The idea that it's something that, you know, you might be ashamed of.

Instead, we should be, as a society going, let's feed everybody.

Let's make sure all the food that we're producing is

getting into people's bellies.

'cause we will have a better, safer, more productive society as a result.

Yeah, no question.

You know, if you're worried about where your next meal's coming from,

how is that job interview going to go?

How's that test going to go?

How are you gonna write that paper if you're in school?

Or if you're worried about where your kids are gonna get their lunch and

there isn't a school food programme going on at your kids' school, like,

what, what does your workday look like knowing that you've had to send your

child to school with not enough food?

You know?

And, and that's at the, really the core of what we do and what I think

a lot of the organisations that we work alongside do is we're trying

to destigmatize that it really does.

This does affect everyone and not everyone is gonna feel comfortable

coming down to the food bank, and that's something that I try to talk about.

Anytime I have an opportunity with someone like yourself or in media or

any opportunity I can, you know, this could be your neighbour, it could be

your friend, it could be a family member, and we just wanna make sure folks feel

welcome to come through our doors.

So here at the Mustard Seed, we wanna make sure that people feel

welcome, whether that's a smile and a hello and a how are you?

You know, and some people just wanna quietly go about their business

and we just try to meet people with exactly where they're at.

You know, some folks, folks wanna hang out, they wanna connect, they wanna share

their story, they wanna talk about what's going on in their lives, and we wanna

make sure they feel supported in doing so.

that's something we just, that's just how we operate down here, uh,

downtown on Queens Avenue, however.

We do recognise that we do serve a large, a large unhoused population, and there's

a great deal of stigma with that as well.

And people are fearful and and concerned sometimes to come down to

this location because they're not sure what, what they're going to encounter.

What they're going to encounter is an incredible community and wonderful

people, but is a big part of why our food rescue programme also serves.

Many other agencies throughout the city because people can access

food in a number of different ways.

Whether you wanna access food up at the university, uh, with their food bank,

whether you wanna access food at a free market, maybe that a church is running

on Sundays where you can just swing by and pick up what you need, uh, whether

it's school pickup, you wanna make, pick up some extra groceries, you know,

we wanna make sure that we're finding

But.

to get.

As much food out to as many people as possible in a number of different ways.

Because you're right, that stigma, it, it, it's everywhere.

It's prevalent.

I hope that it's changing and I think that it's shifting and in conversations with

friends and family, when I talk about the work that I do, I find that more and more

people will start to tell me incredibly heartwarming stories of my family used

a food bank and it was a game changer.

We had a really tough season, you know, and I just always thank

Participation.

for feeling that they can share that with us because.

just so important to break that down.

It's so important to talk about needing help and needing one another.

Humans are pack animals.

We need each other.

Not only do we need food, but we need to be in community with one another in order

to feel like we're part of something.

And that is so, so, so important.

So yeah, I mean those are some of the ways that we just go about trying

to make sure that that food gets out there to different groups, whether it's

a. A cooking, uh, demonstration at a community centre or a neighbourhood house.

You know, whether it's a free market where people meet and start chatting about, you

know, maybe they're gonna meet at church that week, or maybe they're gonna meet

and go for a coffee later because they saw somebody, you know, another parent

from their school at the free market.

You know, just ways to bring people together.

And I think that food is an easy.

Way to do that.

We all have to eat, we all have to come together.

We all have to find ways to nourish ourselves and just so much easier

if you're doing that with others.

Well, and, and that speaks.

there.

No, no, not at all.

I, I think you brought us right back to the kind of through line, which is, you

know, collaboration, uh, in leadership.

And, you know, that was for this larger podcast.

We were sort of talking about how collaboration is what makes a leader a

leader, and collaboration is kind of what.

D defines the sector as a whole.

And, and what I'm hearing from you is, is a, a kind of a perspective, right?

Like you have a particular view of our food system, of, of eaters.

On the one hand, people who eat the food of producers.

On the other hand, because you're seeing their products, you're going through

quite a large volume of their products and the broader distribution system.

And I think that's part of why the collaboration piece is so central, because

it feels to me as someone who, you know as a researcher, as an observer who's kind

of learning about our food system from all angles, that there are some disconnect.

And that if we could start connecting these pieces so that we understand

the opportunities to turn what is a system of abundance to a system that

is fair and secure and ensures that everybody is able to do what they want.

I mean, you know, just as an aside.

I found the best way to deal with conflict, even violent conflict is food.

Right?

It's often the easiest way to deescalate and get people to kind

of see the humanity in each other.

So it's, uh, I'm digressing.

I I do wanna throw you a quick little curve ball though, just outta

curiosity before we kind of talk about some big vision and, and,

and kind of solution centric talk.

I am assuming you, you evoked earlier how yoghourt never really goes bad.

Of course, cheese also never really goes bad.

I, I have to assume that you get some pretty decent cheese, expired

cheese, but nonetheless, some pretty decent cheese that these grocery

stores would otherwise be tossing out.

Is there any logic as to how you distribute some of the more premium

elements that end up, uh, uh, being rescued or otherwise discarded?

I mean, that's a great question.

We do get the strangest things.

We get all sorts of really niche, you know, we'll get one or one or two

packages of a niche cheese, we'll get, you know, plants, flowers, orchids that

have dropped their blooms or roses that have gone, you know, uh, gone off and,

and what we're, what we're grateful to have is an incredible team of

volunteers that sorts through just about everything that comes through our door.

So.

Vol. Our volunteers are literally the lifeblood of our organisation, and they

see what's available and where it could go and who might need it faster than we can.

You know, the flowers for instance, they're instantly in a bucket of water,

seeing if they can revive them and, and you know, and somebody working that day,

volunteering that day, Hey, why don't you take some flowers home to your family?

Gosh, we think that would be really great.

You know, so that we just try to share out as much as we can in whatever way we can.

But yeah, that niche stuff, the niche cheese, and uh, you know, goats.

Milk is one.

We have a couple of organisations that love goat's milk or love keefer,

or love certain products, and we know that they will utilise them

and they know what to do with them.

So we will set them aside because we know we have an appointment system.

So we know that that organisation, for instance, is possibly coming in tomorrow

and they're gonna be really excited about that product versus just trying to force

it on someone else who might not know what to do with a. I don't really speak cheese,

but I don't know, like a stilton, like some people are gonna like a stilton and

some people are not going to like that.

So again, it goes to that choice model, right?

Like, do you know what you, what to do with this?

Do you know who's gonna like this?

Is there a family or a group that you distribute to, you know, that is,

well, we got artichokes once, like the actual whole full artichokes.

Well, lots of people don't know what to do with them, but some

groups, some community groups.

But that's just, that's a delicacy and it's a super exciting event.

So.

Yeah.

Our volunteers are key in making sure that we know how to get some of that

more unique product out to folks that are really gonna get excited about it.

And it also speaks to the diversity, uh, of the organisations that

you work with, that the greater their diversity, the the greater your ability

to utilise and distribute that food.

Although, I asked the question partly because in my own view of de-stigmatizing,

I would love to see the downtown food.

Also carry luxury items that users could choose the same way that it, you

know, the idea that you're not just getting stuff that people don't want.

You're getting stuff that people absolutely want, and that

makes the food bank experience, uh, e even more meaningful.

Now, I, I keep alluding to this idea that I want to talk about the big picture.

And, and I suppose as a segue to that, or a bridge to that, I, I'm assuming

that you talk to other people in the sector who, whether they're leaders like

yourself or to your point, Paul, in.

Tears who are kind of there, uh, seeing the stuff go by.

What are the kind of conversations, what are the, the, the, the, the

big dreams when you imagine, you know, if your friend was premier

or if your pal was prime minister?

You know, I, I have to assume that the same way I'm trying to tease out,

uh, this stuff in our conversation.

That those kind of chats happen naturally when, when you meet other leaders in the

sector, other people, uh, other community organisations who you're working with.

You know, g gimme some of the scuttlebutt, gimme some of the, the, the insights,

the dreams, the, the connections that you guys are making within your own cluster.

That, that I wanna redistribute, uh, to other leaders within

the broader food system.

Sure.

Yeah, great question.

I mean,

I mean, one thing I'd like to say, I have

to our warehouse

Warehouse.

tour, uh, is,

You know,

in a perfect world,

world

wouldn't exist.

My job wouldn't exist, you know, I mean, ultimately, I. Wouldn't that be something?

But the reality is, is that that's not coming anytime soon.

And so I think food banking in general and, and food distribution, food

security, all of these organisations have pivoted to more of a,

we.

can we be a cornerstone and an important part of the

community that we're already in.

We

We are.

we are trusted by many and we don't take that lightly.

We take that really seriously.

So we just wanna make sure that we, you know, we walk in integrity that way.

So that's one piece of it.

You know, it would be great if it didn't exist.

But it does, and here we are.

How can we make the best of it?

Uh, but what I, the feedback I get from a lot of people that come

through our doors, especially from a tour perspective, is, I had no idea.

I had no idea this was here.

I had no idea the scale to which you were doing this.

I had no idea this many organisations were operating under your roof.

You know, and that's a. Big, uh, piece of feedback that I still get after years

and years of showing anybody who wants to come and check out the work that we

do, uh, they're just blown away by the scale and, and the collaboration pieces.

And so that's both heartwarming and a little bit sad to me, right?

Because I think, okay, there's more work to do.

We, and, and that's where you come in and that's where conversations

like this come in, is sharing and spreading, uh, sharing the word and

spreading, uh, you know, information about how we are, are doing this work.

So the scuttlebutt, you

What?

You

I

I think that

our example of what we're doing at the Food Security Distribution

Centre, it's on a on view field road in a squamal, it's lovingly referred to

as view field or the food hub, or it's got all sorts of different pet names.

Uh, is a really great example of where those conversations do happen organically.

For many, many years, a lot of groups in Victoria talked about

how to centralise food rescue.

Uh, that it, that food rescue was something that needed to happen.

And we're talking like back 20 13, 20 14, when it wasn't commonplace.

How can we centralise food rescue?

How can we create equitable access for many organisations?

And those conversations began early weren't easy.

They were contentious.

There was strife.

There was tension.

There was.

Elbows up.

This is mine.

I don't want, I don't want anybody to have what we have.

That real scarcity mindset.

And so we've had to work on that for many, many years.

Cut to the centre opening its doors in 2017, building our one

of three now what are now three kitchens in our, in our warehouse.

A 22,000 square foot warehouse with three kitchen spaces, uh, to a thriving food

rescue programme, which is wonderful.

And we have talked about that, and we're grateful for that.

And we're making the most of.

Definitely, in my opinion, a system that needs a complete overhaul, which

is probably a whole other podcast for you and I. But, uh, what I also

I also.

Field is that we created an environment where many other

organisations are operating with us.

So we have some tenants.

We have an organisation called South Island Farm Hub, and they are an a

la carte farm to table organisation.

And what they do is they, they allow folks to access local farms and local

products as without a middleman.

And they came to life at the beginning of COVID when restaurants shut

down, the whole world shut down.

And all of the farmers and local producers in our region had, you know,

fields full of product and things ready to go, and nowhere where to send them.

There were, there was eggs, there were vegetables there.

Like what do we do with those?

And so.

Uh, south Island Farm Hub was born and they thrived because folks were

really excited about ordering fresh product to their door, uh, and really

connecting with local growers and farmers.

And so that is something that happened out of conversations, out of seeing

the need, seeing what was happening.

The School of Food Programme is another

Another really great in

We've got Flourish School, food Society operating

operating under.

under our roof at View Field, and we are incredibly honoured

to partner with them and to be a supporter of the work that they do.

They started as a pilot project a few years ago and, uh, have

been really, really successful in creating an accessible school food

programme for kids here in Victoria.

Uh, and those conversations are, are incredible because what we

have now are a team of chefs.

That are working for the school food programme that can chat with our

chef that's doing, uh, food rescue.

And so they're sharing ideas.

They're talking about ways to create systems and ways to, to, to close the gap.

So there are a lot of really great conversations happening under our roof.

We did just create a new office space at the back of our warehouse where.

Some local organisations are also renting office spaces because that's what I want.

That was always the vision for view field is those, those water

Water.

Hey, what are you up today?

Today?

What challenges are you facing?

What are some of the gaps in your programmes?

Like, how can we work together?

How can we fix this?

What spaghetti can we throw at the wall?

What sticks?

And those conversations in my mind.

Do happen naturally.

They happen when you run into each other in the hallway, grabbing a coffee when

you run into each other, you know, at, at the front door, et, et cetera, et cetera.

And I just, I really wanted to create an environment in our warehouse for that.

And so that's, I don't know if I have any scuttlebutt for you other

than that, you know, those, those relationships are the most important

parts of what we do, and that's where I glean the most information about what's

next and where we need to go next.

That's the innovation cluster model, right?

That you get people kinda all in the same garden, in the same biome and

then they cross fertilise and connect.

And you're absolutely right.

I will be having you back on.

So we can talk about redesigning our food system as a whole, 'cause

we're scratching the surface today.

But to that point, as a bit of a preview.

You can, uh, uh, address this question as deep or as superficially as you desire.

Are you noticing the industry changing as a result?

And, and I say this because, you know, earlier when we were talking about

packaging right, and our insights on packaging, I actually think that we're.

Doing, and when I say we, I mean the work you're doing, the work that a

lot of the people I'm talking to are doing, we're doing a lot of the heavy

lifting on an innovation scale, on a anticipation scale that really the

private company should be doing on their own, but for various different reasons.

It's not within their worldview, it's not within their, uh, ability

to understand if I'm to be generous.

But nonetheless, they have to be watching what you're doing and

thinking, wow, this is amazing.

And they have to be watching what you're doing and at the very least,

learning from it what they're learning.

We don't know, but I Are you, that little rambling preamble to reframe the question

as, are you watching the industry change either as a consequence of what you're

doing or maybe just you're in a position.

See the industry in a way that other people aren't.

'cause you're seeing the stuff they throw out on certain levels.

Again, now I'm rambling, but I hope you could take something from this to kind

of get to what I'm getting at, which is as a preview to our future episode where

we talk about how to redesign the system.

Is the system starting to pay attention?

Is the system starting to adapt on its own?

I'm gonna stop here 'cause I could keep rambling on and on and on.

That's a great question and it's a big question.

I think I do see micro change if I could, uh, on, on some levels.

Uh, we are fortunate enough here to work with some local grocery partners

that are not, uh, parts of larger chains and are not, therefore, not beholden

to, you know, as much corporate.

oversight.

Uh, so that's helpful.

I mean, that we're working with, you know, smaller organisations locally run

organisations that believe in the work that, that we do and wanna get creative

about ways to partner and get creative about showcasing the work that we do,

because it really, truly matters to them.

Uh, and so, and those larger organisations and, and grocery partners as well, do

deeply care about what we're doing.

And, and for me, it's.

Just education, education, education.

Sharing the story, talking about what's going on, talking about what's

happening in our centre, having management from the grocery stores

come down and see what we're doing.

So I am seeing change.

I am seeing some change on some level.

You know, I find that we sit in a really unique position in, in the work

that we're doing, in that we benefit from the system not functioning well.

But truly at the root of many of the conversations we're having, we don't want

the system to stay in the status quo.

It's not working.

We know it's not working.

We know the cost of food is atrocious.

We know that's a, a big part of why food is coming to our centre

is because people can't afford it.

I can't afford to buy strawberries, raspberries, and blueberries

in the same grocery shop.

I gotta pick one berry and go with it because it's just not economically

viable for most people to.

Access nutritious food.

So yeah, the

Yeah.

is very, very much in need of an overhaul and, and, and for me, that

hope piece back to the beginning of our conversation is I can see elements of

change happening at the local level, but I know that change needs to happen at a much

larger level for it to truly have impact.

So yeah, I do see change and I do see change.

in terms of people who access our services and agencies who access

our services, they're learning about things like Best before Dates.

They're learning about how to educate the folks that they serve and share,

uh, uh, more food, interesting food, maybe food you've never seen before.

Um, you know, that piece, that food literacy piece, that

Is that correct?

piece is, is what I try to focus on because I really don't

feel like I have control over a lot, a lot of the bigger pieces.

Well, and, and you know, I, I usually try to wrap these

episodes with the kind of open question of is there stuff we haven't talked

about today that we should cover?

And, and allow me to fold that into a larger question of how do we expand that

literacy and education effort because.

On the one hand, I think that is the challenge as a sector that we

all face in various different fronts and in various different settings.

But are there, I mean, I think that's part of what I wanted to accomplish today.

I wanted to learn from you and I wanted to elevate the kind of insights and

learning that you guys are experiencing to, you know, the larger kind of

leadership, uh, uh, part of the sector.

But are, are there aspects to this education and literacy efforts?

That you think need greater resources, greater support, greater attention, or

if you did have another 24 hours in the day that you know, you would, uh, uh,

be able to spend more time and focus on,

I think that the, that is an area that definitely needs more

support and, and more improvement.

I mean.

We are

you're trying to.

as an organisation.

I know many of the organisations we work with are also doing the same.

I'll go back to Flourish School, food Society that we, uh, are

so honoured to work alongside.

They have just created an open source, uh, kit for, for their programme, their

blueprint of how to run a school food programme so that anyone in the province.

Can access it and learn how to build a school food programme, because

that's what it's all about, right?

Like why reinvent the wheel?

And so, you know, I think, I think that education and food literacy

piece is really, really important.

I think that from a leadership perspective, I'm trying to connect with as

many leaders as possible in this sector.

Both, you know, nationally.

Provincially because I wanna learn what's working and what isn't.

I don't think any of us have any time to waste, and I don't think we

should be making the same mistakes.

We should just all be learning from each other.

And as my mentor likes to say, then I get to make my own mistakes.

I get to keep trying new ideas and new ways of being, because

I've learned from all of the folks that I've been talking with.

And so that education and literacy piece is across the board.

It's in schools, educating kids about best before dates.

It's on a tour.

When I have

I,

to the warehouse, it's on this podcast, but it's

it's also

from a leadership

a leadership respect

for us to tap into one another and talk with one another

and really and find out what's going on in many different parts of the

sector in the hopes that together

together we.

make change.

I don't know.

I think that that's, that's the best way we have to, to, to move forward

is just, is learning from one another.

And, and that is, uh, to be self-serving for a moment.

You know, what I'm looking to accomplish with the future herd is to try to create

an environment in which leaders can vibe off each other, learn from each other.

You know, for myself, fail early, fail often, so you can

learn from those mistakes.

Uh.

You know, that brings us to the last question of every episode,

which is meant to be spontaneous, but I suspect you've, uh, may have

already been thinking about it.

Uh, who are some leaders that you wanna shout out to?

Uh, what's the call?

Kind of each one, teach one, uh, ethic or spirit.

And these are people you think we should be paying attention to that you think,

uh, either deserve more attention or that you just want to give a shout out

to in, in the broader culture of respect.

Oh gosh.

Wow.

That is a spontaneous question.

I didn't have a prepared list of leaders.

Um, I think that I work with a lot of folks locally that I would

love to give a shout out to, uh, Matthew Shaw and the Flourish.

Cool Food Society is a really big part of the work that we do, and, and

we just love to walk alongside them.

He would be an incredible person to have on, on your podcast and, and

talk about, uh, his perspective.

I think that our chef, Chris Hammer, deserves a shout out.

He, uh, he just does incredible things and he is his own, uh, incredible human

human being with so much.

and enthusiasm for food rescue and, and all the work that we do.

Um, we're just really lucky.

We're really lucky to work with a lot of really great

food leaders here in Victoria.

We have a really strong, uh, food security sector.

Uh, we work with CR Fair, we work with, uh, Linda gge as the executive

director of CR Fair, and she's been an incredible influence in some of the work.

Um, yeah, I, I, gosh, I'm, I'm not sure who else to give a shout out to.

I don't, I'm not very good at that.

Oh no, you, you just, uh, performed spectacularly partly.

'cause we do want it to be spontaneous.

It's not like you're accepting an an Academy award.

We, we want what your gut tells you and shouting out your colleagues is a

very classic, uh, uh, and solid, uh, demonstration of your own leadership.

It has been my.

Absolute, uh, pleasure, uh, to chat with you today.

Uh, the, the Future Herd has your back.

Not only would we love to have you back on the show, but if you ever

need anything from us, don't hesitate to call the herd and we will come,

uh, running, uh, in your support.

Uh, I, I, I'm kinda gushing because my brain is so full.

I have learned so much today.

Uh, thanks again, Reka.

Uh, I, I, I hope.

If anything that to your point, we can make ourselves obsolete, that

we become so successful in trying to address the broader notions of food

security, food insecurity, and making sure that nobody's hungry, that, you

know, that's a point in the future.

We can look back at this conversation.

A goal, wasn't that an interesting career?

I'm glad we solved that problem, as ambitious as that might be.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thanks so much, Jesse.

This has been great, and I feel like I would love to pick your brain on

some of the things that you've learned along the way and folks that you've

talked to, but certainly, uh, I really appreciate this conversation today.

It's been excellent.

Here's what I'm taking away from today's chat.

Food insecurity isn't a sidebar at a Canada's food system.

It's a crucial signal.

A signal that something's broken.

Sure, but also a signal that invites us, if not implores us to rebuild.

Tresco Watson and the Mustard Seed Street Church aren't just moving food.

They're moving the needle on how we think about hunger, dignity in community,

and that warehouse on View Field Road.

It's not just a distribution centre, it's a blueprint for what happens

when collaboration isn't a buzzword.

It becomes the operating system.

So here's my invitation to you.

If this conversation sparked something, don't keep it to yourself.

Share this episode with someone who you need.

Share this episode with someone who you think needs to hear it.

Tell a friend, leave a review, or just start a conversation at your next

kitchen table or at the workplace.

You don't have to rescue three and a half million pounds to make a difference.

You just have to stay curious and pass it on and maybe eat that

yoghourt rather than throw it out.

Thanks for being a part of the future herd.

Until next time, keep asking the big questions and keep

showing up for each other.