Episode Summary:

In this episode of The Pregnancy Loss and Motherhood Podcast, Vallen explores the complex relationship between grief and joy, particularly in the context of motherhood and loss. She emphasizes that feeling joy does not mean forgetting about a lost child and that grief is a natural response to loss that evolves over time. Vallen shares personal experiences and insights on navigating guilt, shame, and the duality of emotions, encouraging listeners to embrace both grief and joy as part of their healing journey. She also offers practical advice on finding moments of joy amidst grief and highlights the importance of support and community in the healing process.

Takeaways

You are not broken; you are hurting.

Grief and joy can coexist.

Grief doesn't have an expiration date.

It's okay to take a vacation from your grief.

Experiencing joy does not mean forgetting your loss.

Your love for your child does not disappear.

You can find ways to parent beyond the grave.

Grief evolves over time; it doesn't vanish.

Finding meaning in loss is a personal journey.

You are never alone in your grief.

Chapters

00:00 Embracing Grief and Joy

02:05 The Nature of Grief

04:11 Finding Moments of Joy

06:18 The Complexity of Grief

08:17 Navigating Guilt and Shame

10:12 Duality of Emotions

12:27 Creating Meaning from Loss

14:57 Practicing Presence and Joy

17:08 Support and Resources for Healing

What You’ll Hear:

Links + Resources:

• 💌 Visit the Evelyn James Shop on Etsy!
• 🧡 Follow us on TikTok!! @pregnancyloss.motherhood

Hi, love. Welcome to another episode of the Pregnancy Laws Motherhood podcast. I'm so happy that you are here today. listening to anything right now or even this episode feels heavy or if you've like stared at this episode wondering if you're ready for it, I just want you to know that makes total sense. This episode is really for the women who feel...

guilty for wanting to laugh again, for the moms who feel shame when they start to feel joy again, the ones who truly wonder if I feel happiness, does that mean that I'm forgetting about my baby or does it mean that I'm forgetting about my baby or moving on without them? So I just want to take a big breath today.

Before we go any further because I want you to really understand that You are not broken. That's the truth. You are not broken. We feel broken

there are maybe parts of our identity and.

parts of us.

that are broken, us as a whole, we are not broken. We are hurting, we are in pain, we are suffering, we are detached, we are angry, we are bitter, we are fucking rageful.

but you're not broken.

And I want you to know that grief and joy, which I deem as opposites or

I would say opposites. They weren't meant to be enemies.

You can't have one without the other. You know, even sadness and joy, or loss and joy. If you've never experienced loss, how do you know what joy truly feels like? And if you've only ever experienced joy, have you experienced the true depths and all-consumingness of joy if you've never felt the loss? So...

This episode is really special to me because it's something that I struggled with for so long. And not just after Evelyn died, just a lot of situations in my life that I, it's like the way I grew up was either or you can't feel more than one emotion at a time. It's like you're angry, you're angry. Like, I don't know how to really.

communicate or verbalize that, what I'm trying to say, but.

I really want us to touch on the fact that grief doesn't disappear.

it evolves. And I think one of the biggest lies that we're told about grief is that there's an expiration date or people act like there's an expiration date or a good amount of time, you know, for, you know, enough time that has passed that you should be okay. And I really I get curious about where people come up with these numbers and, you know, come up with

these ideas. But there's a part of me that believes it's about the will to keep going. I think when people are telling you, you know, like,

shitty things like, you know, maybe, you know, haven't you moved on or haven't you dealt with this? Like, I think there's one, of course, they don't know how to handle your grief. And that's on them. I do think there's always a piece though of they want you to be okay.

but they don't know how to make it better because they can't. I truly believe most people mean well. so David Kessler, he's one of the world's leading experts in grief. He says, grief doesn't end, it changes. It's a passage, not a place to stay. And to me, I look at that and I think it's such a beautiful quote because

Grief happens after a tremendous loss, traumatic experience, and we do have to sit in it for a little bit. Not everybody. Not always.

but it's again a passage, we're going through it. But there's a point where we have to sit in it to feel it, to feel the emotions, feel all the feelings coming up in our bodies so that we can eventually process and keep going.

one of the most beautiful things too that I ever read. in one of the grief watch books.

And it's one of the first things I read after Evelyn died and it's like, you know, hundred ways to...

something about stillbirth, but it's to take a vacation.

It said to take a vacation from your grief. Like you have to do that sometimes. And at first when I read that I felt a bit confused. I'm like how does that work? Like this was, I mean, maybe a month in and you're like buying books and you're trying to figure things out. Why'd this happen and why did it happen to me and what is grief and how long is it gonna last? And.

One of the first experiences that I had with taking a vacation was...

watching my other two children play and I just forgot for a little bit. Like that's, it's just, I didn't have it in the forefront of my brain, you know, holding it there to sit in. I was able to be present and we're sitting with that grief, like constantly sitting in it. We're not in the present, we're in the past.

And so I was able to be present and I learned, wow, okay, being in the present is where.

I get the vacation from my grief. Does that make sense?

even in those little pockets of joy that you find early on, that is also where you will find little vacations spots to set the grief down for a few minutes.

And then go back to it because you will go back to it. So.

You know, the reminder that grief doesn't vanish when you start functioning again. It doesn't disappear when you're smiling or laughing. But it evolves because we evolve. We change. And in the beginning, know, early grief is really loud and consuming and all-encompassing and so physically heavy and demanding.

But down the road, and I can't tell you how long, we don't know. There's no, there's no, you know.

gestational period for how long grief lasts or when it's good to show up.

But it becomes a bit quieter as time goes on. It's still real. Your baby still matters. Things are just different. But I...

I do know that that shift though can feel really confusing and sometimes even frightening for you, for others, like whoever's going through the loss.

because it's another transition, it's another change, a new place to be and sit. So, you know, we often hear things like...

you'll be okay again. Time will heal. Time will heal this wound. Time will heal this loss.

You're gonna keep going. You're gonna be okay.

you know, another truth that I would love you to have is that

we don't move on from our child.

We move forward with them. We're not burying their memory and leaving it to never go back to you, although some people do compartmentalize that, and there's some people who cannot process things. They don't know how to get support or help. And by all means, I am not judging you if that's you. This is fucking hard.

but it's a reminder that your love doesn't disappear.

it, you know, your motherhood doesn't disappear. Some people feel like, you know, especially if it's your first baby that had died, there are parents that feel like they're not parents because they have no baby to show for it. But motherhood, parenthood doesn't disappear just because your baby has died. And I want you to know that. Because I will tell you, we find ways to parent beyond the grave.

We find all the ways, you know And rightly so your grief doesn't disappear

It just takes up space differently. There's a really great visual. If I was a really great editor, I'd like, you know, show you a picture of this in the YouTube video. But.

There's a picture of a ball and then there's a circle around it.

And it shows that it's not the ball that's getting bigger, but the outside circle expands to hold the capacity of the grief. Like, it's just a really good visual. I hope that I explained that right. I'm going to link. I will link that in the show notes because sometimes a visual can help us understand what something really is.

But.

brief just looks different over time.

I want to talk about a really beautiful moment that I remember vividly.

It was less than a month after Evelyn died.

And my two girls, they were four and three. And they had this tall bin, kind of like a laundry basket, but it was softer. And it was for their stuffed animals.

They were, and I was laying on the couch just videotaping them.

And I was laughing.

You know, and it's not something that I had looked at at the time and been like, wow, that one. You did laugh.

few weeks after Evelyn died, you were laughing. But in that video, one was going in the basket and the other one was stuffing in the other stuffed animals and then pushing each other over in it and they were just laughing and wrestling and giggling. And I was laughing and I was being present and watching them. Yes, I was recording because it was just so funny.

But that was the first time I remember laughing after my loss.

It was the first time that I was enjoying something, the first time that like my body and my brain just forgot for a second what was happening.

and what I also remember.

is the guilt that came after that.

because I was laughing.

You know, and I've talked to so many moms who've lost babies and

There's a question that always comes up a little later after the loss and that's, this make me a bad mom? And normally the question is being centered around like because they laughed, because they forgot about their baby for a few hours. And it's not that they forgot. They gently set them down so that they could be present with their family. And.

Just a reminder that no, it does not make you a bad mom or dad or parent.

for being present and experiencing life while you're also grieving.

How shitty would life be? Because we... When something like this happens, we will grieve our whole lives.

How shitty would that be to not ever laugh or smile again? Because we don't think that's, you know, okay. It'd be terrible. It makes you human. And just a reminder from amazing, beautiful Brené Brown, who I adore, and the work she does on shame.

She quote, she said, shame thrives in secrecy, silence and judgment. So if we're not saying these feelings and things out loud, we hold and allow that shame to build in us. the shame of like, my God, like I didn't, you know, I didn't think about her as much today. I feel like so guilty and so shameful. Like I'm a terrible mom, things like that.

It's not the truth. That guilt, the shame that comes up, it's not the truth.

And the next thing I'm gonna kind of bring up is something that we do talk about very often on my podcast. And that is that joy does not erase grief. In other words, we talk about this idea of duality of grief and joy or loss and joy. In grief psychology, it's talked about as both and not either or.

you can't have grief or sorry joy or grief. can't experience grief or joy. It's both. You can experience grief and joy at the same time. You can experience anger and sadness and happiness at the same time. We are complex creatures, complex human beings. We are going to have all these experiences, all these emotions hitting us.

you know, randomly at times like it's it it can be wild. You can be devastated and laugh. You can miss your baby and enjoy your living children or miss your baby and still love your life so much. That's one that I that that's one of my things that I felt bad for for the longest time.

because after she died, it put so many things in perspective and gave me...

She just gave me a whole new world. And it made me realize how much I love my life and how much I love being alive.

and I also learned that I could feel that way and miss her and love her at the same time.

you can grieve so deeply or mourn so deeply and also feel moments of peace. Joy does not replace grief. sits beside it. It sits, you know, sometimes it's quiet. Sometimes it's a bit awkward holding both. Sometimes it's like a a pocket of joy, a little bit of laughter, then back to crying. Like,

Grief is chaos, like at another level.

And I want you to think too, like, think of joy as an act of love, because what you may not realize is that enjoying yourself or allowing yourself to feel joy, allowing yourself to experience happiness and joy can be a way of honoring your baby or your child, because I don't believe our babies wanted us to, wanted our lives to stop.

just because they were no longer physically here.

Our love for them was never meant to be a punishment. That's what I believe. There's another quote by David Kessler, the grief expert, and it says, finding meaning doesn't mean finding the reason. It means finding how the loss changed you. Meaning isn't something that you are going to find. It is something that you have to create.

It is something that you have to witness. And believe me, there's nothing more that I have ever wanted in my entire life than to find the reason why she had to die. I don't believe she had to die for me to find this path or this purpose of mine. I think it shortened the time period to get to where I am because it threw me into this loss and grief world.

But unfortunately, a lot of us will never find the reason.

but we can create the meaning that it gives to us. We can find the meaning that it gives to us.

We have to continue.

So I know that it's easier said than done, right? Like, okay, well, how do we experience joy? So a few simple practices and it's not like big joy, it's not forcing joy, just little micro moments. And a lot of it is just being intentional with being aware of what's going on around you and being present. and these are some of the ones that saved my life quite literally. And that's letting the sun shine.

Sunshite, my god. Shite is a word my brother uses. Letting sunshine on your face. Even if it's frigid cold out like it is right now, I took my boys out today in 13 degree weather, but there was sunshine. I took my glasses off and I closed my eyes and I just let the sunbeam on my face. Because I am in a depressive state because of the lack of sunshine here.

Drinking your coffee slowly and intentionally, like holding your warm cup and just being like, my God, this is my favorite mug, my favorite coffee, and it's so warm and cozy. Just notice all the feelings in your body. Laughing without apologizing, laughing to laugh, and not like, you know, while you're laughing, be like, my God, my baby said, like, why am I laughing? Now you may have that thought.

but let it pass and allow yourself to laugh.

This is just an invitation because you definitely don't need permission to do anything. But an invitation to just let yourself enjoy one thing today if you're struggling.

You know, even if it's like for me, it's six years down the road. But I'm noticing that I'm struggling a bit more than usual. And it's my grief.

So there's no pressure, there's no timeline. Just allow yourself to enjoy something today or tomorrow. mean, I don't know if it'll be late where you are, but.

a little so, you know, we talked about.

Letting things coexist, letting feelings and emotions coexist. We talked about the fact that you're not broken. Although parts of us may be, us as a whole, we are not broken.

what you're experiencing is the worst thing. You know, that grief of losing a child, the baby. But if there's one thing I want you to hold today, it's kind of reframing that you're not broken. You are responding normally to something devastating.

Enjoy when it comes. It's not a betrayal for you. It's evidence that love still lives in you. You're still trying to find those little spots for yourself.

I just want you to know that you're not alone. You are never alone. And I know this grief journey is very hard.

I definitely have other podcast episodes that talk about this. I'll link them in the show notes because I didn't, I don't have the specific numbers. We are almost to our hundredth episode and that is like astounding. I was hoping to make it to my hundredth, hopefully by new years. If I can get my button gear and really crank out some episodes like two a week until the end of the end of the month.

If you're looking for a little extra support, there are support groups. You can go to starlegacyfoundation.org. You can go to returntozero.org, I believe.

If you are looking for local support groups, please use Google. Google, know, pregnancy loss or stillbirth or whatever your specific loss is. Miscarriage support group near me or, you know, miscarriage support group in blank city, whatever that is. If you want more in-person support, there are other podcast episodes to listen to. You can head to our Etsy shop.

to create a beautiful build your story necklace. We have charm necklaces now that allow us to be a little creative and you know the charms are there to build your story. That's what we call the necklace. So we have the beautiful charm holders and then we have all these incredible charms to support our journeys through it.

And a reminder, you can, you can watch this on YouTube or you can go to our tick tock channel, which is pregnancy loss and motherhood podcast. think, I will link everything in the show notes so that you have the correct, have the correct links, but have a beautiful week. My love.

Try to find joy.

I'll be thinking about you and I'll see you next week.