If you’ve ever wondered how your brain’s inner workings play into your growth, relationships, or resilience—or if you want real, practical tips for building healthier self-talk—I think you’ll find this episode especially meaningful.

I’m joined by Dr. Hector Rodriguez, an integrative psychiatrist and founder of The White Butterfly Clinic. His work focuses on trauma-informed care, brain health, emotional intelligence, and helping individuals move from survival mode into clarity, resilience, and purpose. Dr. Hector integrates neuroscience, lifestyle psychiatry, and compassionate clinical insight to support healing at both the individual and relational level. He is especially passionate about working with high-performing, emotionally complex, and often marginalized individuals, and about changing how we understand and care for the human mind and soul.

In this episode, Dr. Rodriguez and I talk about what your brain health can reveal about your emotional intelligence. We explore some powerful ideas, like the concept of the “inner bully” versus the “inner cheerleader” and how the way our brain is wired shapes our self-talk and beliefs.

Dr. Rodriguez unpacks the science behind self-awareness and negativity bias, shares practical strategies for rewiring our thought patterns, and guides us through how both major traumas and smaller, everyday micro-traumas impact who we are.

We also talk about the true roots of psychiatry—as the management of the soul—and why that perspective matters more than ever. Our conversation touches on everything from loneliness and connection to the role of technology in our lives and the essential human need for genuine bonds.

Moments

00:00 "Bully and Cheerleader Brain Concept"

05:07 Silencing Your Inner Critic

07:09 "Identifying and Addressing Negative Thoughts"

10:45 Internal Bully vs. Cheerleader

15:05 Reframing Mental Health Perspectives

18:28 Openness to Soul Beyond Religion

22:20 Emotional Block and Vulnerability

24:39 Building Trust Over Time

29:08 Overthinking Disrupts Sleep

30:23 Nervous System's Hidden Impact

36:36 "Urgent Help Needed for Injury"

37:06 Avoiding Mental Health Attention

41:55 "Life Isn't a Football Game"

43:47 "The Connection Issue"

49:56 Loneliness and OnlyFans Impact

51:33 AI Companions and Mental Health

54:44 "Insight on Family and Perception"

59:09 Improving and Seeking Help

01:00:32 "Dr. Hector's Info & Updates"

3 Key Takeaways:

1. You can retrain your brain: Through daily practices and conscious reframing, it’s possible to move from automatic negative thoughts to self-supportive beliefs.
2. Emotional intelligence is rooted in brain health: Being self-aware isn’t just a soft skill—it’s physically mapped in the brain, and can be strengthened like a muscle.
3. True connection matters: Human bonding and authentic relationships are essential for mental and emotional health—no app or artificial substitute can replace the brain’s need for real connection.

In each episode, Jeff and Eric will talk about what emotional intelligence, or understanding your emotions, can do for you in your daily and work life. For more information, contact Eric or Jeff at info@spiritofeq.com, or go to their website, Spirit of EQ.

You can follow The Spirit of EQ Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Android, or on your favorite podcast player.

New episodes are available on the 2nd and 4th Wednesdays every month!

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This podcast was created to be a tool to primarily help you to discover and grow your EQ. Science and our own lived experiences confirm that the better we are at managing our emotions, the better we're going to be at making decisions. Which leads to a better life. And that's something we all want. We're glad that you've taken the time today to listen. We hope that something you hear will lead to a breakthrough. We'd really appreciate a review on your podcast platform. Please leave some comments about what you heard today, as well as follow and subscribe to the podcast. That way, you won't miss a single episode as we continue this journey.

Doctor Hector Rodriguez, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

I've been looking forward to our time together, and there were many things we talked about in sort of the. Before we recorded that really prompted a lot of curiosity on my part. And I'm just going to start with the first one. It's a big one. And I'm not sure if you originated this little terminology, but it made so much sense to me. The inner bully versus the inner cheerleader. Now, I know our audience will probably go, oh, I bet I know what that is, but could you talk about that and talk about how it relates to emotional intelligence as well?

Well, I don't know if I came up with that, but I know I did it with a lot of my patients, especially my younger patients, because they really understand the concept of a bully and a cheerleader. So maybe somewhere in my subconscious, I heard it somewhere, but. So basically, there's a part of our brain called the cingulate gyrus. So without going too much into the scientific thing behind it, the posterior one, which is the one in the back, tends to be the part of our brain where we get either stuck on a thought, on an idea, but mainly about ourselves.

Right.

The anterior cingulate focuses more on other people.

Right.

So let's say an example of a really active anterior cingulate is someone who's very argumentative, very oppositional, always looking for mistakes on other people. But now imagine those same things, but in the posterior is with myself. So a very active posterior cingulate could mean two different things, the bully or the cheerleader.

Right.

Now, the thoughts that we have really depend a lot on my opinion on our upbringing. So situations that we experience throughout life.

Right.

And then we kind of start teaching that cingulate gyrus to think a certain way. It's supposed to be done to protect us.

Right.

The single gyrus is there to protect us. Right. We're scanning for mistakes. We're scanning for. For danger.

Yep.

But if we train ourselves to be thinking, you know, argumentative, oppositional, scanning for our mistakes, it's like having a little bully in my head telling me, oh, you see, you messed up again. You must not be good at this.

So does that mean that. Because I've heard this from clients in the past where, you know, they're looking at an assessment result, and they. They go immediately to where they didn't score. Well, is it. Is there just a bias toward that?

That's. That. That's that negativity bias. Okay. Usually seen through a very active Posterior cingulate iris. So that's that thing that we do that we scan for mistakes. It tends to be a protective thing. Like I said, you know, we scan for danger.

Yeah.

If we train the brain, we can have it turn on and off when we need to. And that's the part where I work with my patients to make sure that first of all, understanding that that's happening, that they're seeing more of a negative bias.

Right.

Or worst case scenario, more than they're seeing the positive possibilities. So it's different than thinking positive. You know, I'm not saying it's more of like, you know, what could be another outcome that could turn out to be good.

So let me ask you this. I've. In my history, you know, I'm going back some years, you know, I would use, I call them the deadly two words of what if? And typically I would follow with there's something bad. Right. Is that a case of where someone might go, all right, I thought, what if I get in an accident and then reframe it to say, well, what if I have a great drive into work? Is that some.

That same kind of training that we do?

Okay.

It's our nature to protect and our brain is wired to protect us from danger. So it's more likely to. We always jump to. Worst case scenario is more likely. A lot of the people that I work with too, are high functioning executives.

Right.

So they'll tell me, yeah, but if I didn't have that, I wouldn't be able to look for mistakes in my company, or I wouldn't be able to. But then I tell them, but if you're doing that in your private life, in the way that you talk to yourself in your mind, that's not healthy either. You're always looking for something that someone did wrong.

Yeah.

You know, it's that thing, which is why I tell them, let's learn to turn it on and turn it off when we need to.

And you know, when you say that to me, that implies that we've kind of got to put in some work. Because you said training the brain. Right. Is that just a case of just consistent repetition, Having certain talk tracks, or how does that, how does that play out?

The work depends on where your inner bully is always going.

Okay.

If your inner bully is always going towards self criticism and in a way that keeps you stuck from growth, keep you stuck from moving forward in your life and your career and whatever, then I would say, okay, we got to work on how you talk to yourself in this area. So to say. Repetition. Yeah, sometimes I'll tell patients, let's do some daily affirmations. But first you have to identify what is the thought that you're always having that is negative. One of my favorites is when we always think, you know, and a lot of people think this is, I'm stupid, right? Made a mistake. I must be stupid. So then I tell them, well, this I learned from Dr.

Amen. Let's challenge that phrase. Is that true? Yes or no? Quickly answer it, right? And they're like, yeah. I'm like, okay, you hesitated. So that might mean that you're not feeling that way or you don't think of yourself stupid 100% of the time. So now we go to that question. Do you feel that you are fact, you are stupid all the time? That's when they're like, well, you know, not really. I'm like, okay, so you see, that's negativity bias, right? So now think about the phrase I'm stupid.

How does that make you feel about yourself? Well, obviously worthless, right? I haven't achieved anything in life, right? We start kind of going that direction. So it makes me feel bad. Okay, let's just stick to making you feel bad, okay? Now imagine the opposite. I am intelligent. And I always tell them the opposite is not. I'm not stupid. You know, the opposite is I'm intelligent or I'm smart, right? Now, when you think of that, how does that make you feel? Well, obviously everyone tells me the same thing, right? Well, I feel that I could achieve things. I feel that I can.

You know, this issue that I'm going through, I can solve. I can find a solution for it. So you see how your way that you think affects your behavior, and that's cognitive behavioral therapy in a nutshell.

Yeah.

And then I tell them that's where we need to dive in, deeper in how your thoughts are. So Dr. Amen uses the term the ants, the automatic negative thoughts. I go a step further and I tell them, okay, I want you to write all these ants every single day. And at the end of the week or even two weeks, let's find what I call the ampile. Where are all these ants coming from? Is it self worth? Is it self esteem? Is it something that someone always told you started to believe it, right? So what's the empire? You can tell a theme in all your ants. They always have a theme. So let's find the theme and then we work on that theme.

Most of the time is self worth, self esteem. That's what we tend to, you know, the bully tends to attack us. So obviously when that one time probably in your month that you did something stupid, it kind of reaffirms in your mind, oh, you see, I am. Wait a minute, that was an hour in a month. All the other hours in the rest of the month. And I'm just using a month as an example, but it could be even a year, Right. That you might have made a mistake. But if you're always looking for that, which is what you mentioned earlier, Right.

Always scanning for that one thing that I did wrong, totally missing out on all the other things that you did.

Right.

So does that also mean. Or could it mean that someone maybe developed and I have a fondness for the term core beliefs, maybe they grew up in a home where maybe a parent in so many ways might have said, you're not very smart or you are stupid. Is that part of the dynamic? I know it probably doesn't. That's not exhaustive, meaning every situation. But does that play a part?

I think it definitely plays a part. Sometimes it's not a parent, sometimes it could have been a teacher.

Yes.

It could have been a classmate, it could have been a friend that you had growing up. There's certain phrases that for whatever reason that I still haven't been able to figure out that kind of get stuck in us. And maybe someone said it in passing and it really resonated with you and it clicked in that moment and then you start believing it as your core truth.

Right.

This is who I am. This is how I define myself to other people. And like always, self fulfilling prophecy, you're going to start behaving that way.

But you've also illustrated, Hector, that there are methods, tools, ways of rewiring, re looking that kind of thing in that.

Moment that got wired.

That thought.

Yep.

Sorry to interrupt you, but I wanted to make sure.

No, no, no, no, that's great. I mean, that's a great observation.

Right.

So if in that moment something negative got wired, it's also possible that something positive can get wired too.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You can also rewire the brain. Your thought processes say, okay, well if at one point a phrase got stuck in my mind. Yeah, I started, you know, just. That's true, that's true, that's true. We can do the same thing with another phrase. Yeah.

So how about as it relates to emotional intelligence, can you draw a connection there for our audience?

Big time. So the posterior cingulate, when it's active, it could also implicate that we have good emotional intelligence because we're very self aware.

Okay.

Yep.

That concept of self awareness, being able to recognize, be sensitive to my emotions, my. So it's, you know, it's focused on me internally. That's still the posterior thing. So that's where, you know, it could be lit up and it's a bully that is acting. That's why I always go to like, let's think about your thoughts. But it could also be the cheerleader. So obviously most people, unfortunately, because of what we just talked about, they tend to turn towards the bully kind of thinking and they forget that they could train their brain to be an internal cheerleader. But all of that comes from the concept of emotional intelligence.

It's all in the posterior cingulate. So most of us who work in healthcare, or even more specific mental health psychiatrists, coaches, all of usually have a very active posterior cingulate.

Has that. I'm curious, has that ever been measured? You know, I've seen those, you know, graphics where the. I'm trying to remember where I saw it, but where it. They did a brain scan when somebody was experiencing certain emotions and. Or certain things that. Catalyst for emotions. Has that ever been done in this regard? You know, we're. Okay.

Yeah. Usually it's done with a functional mri.

Okay.

To what. What I was referring to when I talked about scan, I'm talking about spec scan.

Yeah.

It's looking at brain activity through brain circulation.

Okay.

But a function mri, you can see that. And that's. Those are the studies that you're probably referring to, more popular recently.

Well, it's interesting to me because, you know, in the corporate setting. Right. And it's not so much anymore, which is great. You know, used to be, you know, all this emotional intelligence stuff was soft skills and, you know, I don't sure why that has to be. And we don't really need that. And I think it was a denial that there was actually something happening in the brain as people who are working in the corporate environment are experiencing day in and day out. Right. So if I might.

There was another thing that we talked about that I thought was really fascinating and I didn't know it. I remember asking you a bit about psychiatry. Right. And then you went right into, well, you know what psychiatry means. You know what that. Can you. Can you talk a bit about that? And the psyche, I think, was it a white butterfly? I'm probably butchering it, Hector, but can.

We talk a little bit about that?

You're right.

You're on it. So I honestly came in into this accidentally a Few years back. It was actually right before the pandemic. It was February of 2020. So it was, like, literally right before everything just shut down. We had gone to Europe. We were in Paris, and we went to the Louvre. And I really got, you know, just fascinated by this statue in the corner.

And it was a statue of Cupid.

Right.

Arrows missing, a girl.

Right.

And it's called Cupid's Kiss.

Right.

For some reason, I just kept kind of going through it. So, you know, I got home, and I love art. I love history, especially Greek mythology and all that stuff. I kind of. I'm a nerd for that kind of stuff.

Okay.

And I was like, okay, let me learn about this. And it turns out that the girl, her name is Psyche. So I thought. I was like, okay, that's kind of interesting. Let me keep reading more. And that's where the word psychiatry comes from. So psyche in Greek means the soul. Psychiatry is the medical management or the management of the soul.

So I thought that was just not only, like, just beautiful and poetic. I was like, this is amazing. Like, it just opened up my mind to the word psychiatry, which for a while has had a negative view on it. You know, you're psycho, right? These. These kind of tags.

Right.

But me being the person that I am, creative and curious all the time, I started looking even more. And the girl, her name is also the White Butterfly. So to me, that was a perfect marriage. And that's what I named my practice, the White Butterfly. So I have pictures of that statue everywhere. I was even thinking about getting a tattoo of it. It's just so freaking cool.

Yeah.

I read the book of that story, which is a Greek mythology story.

Yeah.

So I thought it was.

You know what? I just can't help when I think about America. And you mentioned about the negative connotation with psychiatry. And quite frankly, again, I think it's improving our perspectives about mental health, brain health, those kind of things. But for the longest time, I think the association for that term was typically negative. And I just had this image in my head of a doctor letting a person know. I just want you to understand the meaning of my work. The meaning of this work is it would seem to change the paradigm a bit. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It just changes, I think. And it also tells us the power of words.

Yeah.

You know, so. But many of us, we're not looking. You know, we don't really pay attention to, like, the root.

Where.

Where is this word coming from? What it used to mean? I'm a little Bit nerd about that. So I do like to, to look at words because I'm very, I'm very thoughtful of the words that I choose to say. I know that words can hurt someone, but I also know words can uplift someone or hiding it. Back to emotional intelligence in corporate world is influence people to do certain things. I tell patients, my job is to work on your soul, is to work on those thoughts, those views of yourself, of how you view other people, your relationships. And it's just on and on and on.

Right?

Yeah.

If we're able to heal that, I think many of us today feel, which is probably one of the most googled questions, is why am I lonely? Why do I feel loneliness? People are hurting down to their core, down to their soul. And then obviously you start seeing some of these psychiatric symptoms and you see this rise in mental health issues. But I think it boils down to this concept of us not understanding the power of your mind, the power of your soul, and diving in deeper to heal it, cure it. And for me, that's why I became so intrigued by the term, why I name my practice that, and why I'm always preaching this concept. Because it needs to change. It needs to change how, how we manage how we treat patients.

Right.

I'm saying for us in the medical field, yes. And by us learning where that word comes from, which is what we do and many of us don't know.

Right.

It totally changes your concept of the person that's in front of you.

Oh, my gosh. And you know, I grew up in a home, Hector, where if you had to go see, quote, had to go see a psychiatrist, psychologist, it was a sign of major defeat. I mean, hold your head down. You know, I guess you're going to have to type thing. Right. When in reality, as I look back, I'm going. I miss so much opportunity to basically go where you were just talking about the healing of the soul. And if you in our audience, I'm sure experience the childhood trauma, the dynamics of that, and in my case, the trauma wasn't addressed until decades later into my adult years.

And I don't want to go and spend too much time on waxing nostalgic on what could have been, because obviously with practitioners like yourself who are out there, who are approaching it in a way that's more approachable. Right. Because with all of the recent events that have been happening in the United States, and this show is not about that, however, the impact of it, I think is certain as it relates to, it's being felt And I'm getting a sense that there is more openness or starting to be more openness to not look at the term the word soul as something. Oh, I can't talk about that. Oh, well, you know, I'm not. I'm not religious, you know, those kind of things. Because it has really. It has very, very little in my mind to do with religion.

It's who you are. And. And I'll just give you this quickly because what you're saying is just so. It's just so resonant. I'm a big music fan, right. And one of my favorite artists probably would be the soundtrack of my life is Pat Metheny. And he's in the jazz realm. Some people have heard of him, some people like him, you know, that kind of deal.

But I was watching an interview that he did at this neuroscience conference, and they were talking about how emotive his music is, right? And they were asking him questions like, do you feel all these different emotions when you're playing? And. And. And what do you think your audience is feeling? So they were going deep with it, right? And then one of the. The panelists asked him or the moderators. So do you think we'll come to a day where we'll be able to know that when you play certain notes, it's going to make a person feel a certain emotion? And he just shakes his head. Hector is kind of like, you know, the only problem is, is that when you get that close, you're going to bump into the soul. And we're all unique. It was such a.

I mean, it was such a great statement of this, of being a human being.

Right.

So thank you for allowing me to go down that rabbit hole about music. But are you finding in your practice an openness to approach things about that direction as far as the soul and that you're there to help to heal that kind of thing?

Well, that's how I start my sessions.

Ah.

So even if they didn't know, I'm like, did you know? And then I go down that path. I think also I study theology. I have a master's in theology. So for me, the spiritual part, right. Of the individual. In psychiatry, we look at the biopsychosocial, but we like to go a little bit deeper in biopsychosocial, spiritual, then we go into the soul. It really just. I think it's what draws some patients to me.

So the person is already with a mindset of, like, we're going to go a lot deeper than.

Got it. Yeah.

I like to teach a lot. I like to educate. I like to explain. So I have to, you know, I have to go down that path. And when I notice that there's hesitation from the person.

Right.

They're kind of, no, we're not going to go there. That's when I know we got a lot of work to do.

Oh, my. Is so they're blocking. Okay. So if I understand you correctly, if. If they're not open or if they're hesitant right to this point, that might be an indicator that. Okay, you're going to have some much deeper work to do. Wow.

Most of the time, it comes from a place of that soul was hurt. There's a wound there that is rotting.

Right.

At some point, we just put a band aid on it, and we don't want anyone to touch it. So when I notice that. When I noticed that immediate block and you can tell, I mean, I always. I try to work with, you know, and I met with a lot of therapists and coaches, and I'm always checking, do they have that sensitivity to pay attention when the person is doing that? And I'm so blessed to be able to be surrounded by people who have that right. Because when there is a person that has their soul hurt, really deep wounds, that tells me that they don't want to feel vulnerable, which is why they're blocking me. Like, no, we're not going to go into that area because I'm not ready to go there, or I don't want you to see what's in that room.

Right.

So when that happens, I definitely bring in my. My team of EMDR IFS therapists to, like, we got to go a lot deeper. There's something there that they might not be aware that is there. Because sometimes a trauma block can happen. Sure. And the person's just not able to do it. But I'm able always to kind of pick up on it when they do that, when they don't let me go there.

Right. Yeah.

And there's different ways that people show that. The most common thing is, like, I'm fine there. It's okay. We don't have to go. Like, they'll kind of play it off.

Yep.

And I'm like, okay, there is something. We got to go in there. And I'm curious. I'm always. I'm a curious person. So I'm like, if there's something in there hiding, right. There's that wound that is rotting. We have to remove that band aid so it can finally heal.

Yeah. And, you know, maybe it's not obvious to you, but, you know, the work that we do at Spirit of EQ is not clinical by any stretch. And we always make sure people understand that. We don't even begin to pretend or to portray. But it's interesting to me that the idea of the building of trust. Right. The willingness to be vulnerable. And I had a client some time ago who had warned me that the particular group I was going to be working with were somewhat skeptical, if not downright dysfunctional and how they approached these kind of things.

And you know, Hector, what was so refreshing for me in my own soul was that I've seen that before. I don't expect that as soon as I walk through the door, you immediately go, okay, I'm ready. What I need to do, I know there's going to be the skeptics. I know there's going to be those who are adamantly opposed. And I know it's sort of the responsibility is mine to build trust, to know that that's okay. I'll be back again next month, and then I'm going to come back again the next month. And eventually I'm working towards you trusting that I'm not. I am someone to be trusted.

Right.

I just. And, and your example is much deeper because a soul wound is not the same. It's not on the same level. And your ability to sort of navigate and help them to understand that you're there to help them, that. That's a marvelous contribution. Just marvelous.

Let me tell you something, though. Even in what you mentioned in your environment, it does come from a wound that they might have had. And they show it in the workplace. They just do.

Right.

Wow. And when. When I hear people like you having those situations, because I've seen that in clinic.

Right?

Yeah. Recently had a client that was referred to me and the therapist, she's like, there's a lot of wounds in here. And he's a big executive, very famous, and his. In his industry and world. And. And it all stems from his relationship with his dad when he was younger. That always made him feel not good enough.

Right.

So once she got to that wound, she started seeing how in the workplace he was a very difficult CEO. No one wanted to. So in a way, he was mirroring, which is a very common thing that happens in trauma, the same behaviors of his dad, but now to his employees. Yeah, you do see that. You know, you see it when you're working with an organization and you can kind of start picking out. This person has a lot deeper things, but it might not Be that's not the environment or the, you know, the, the group to go into that. That person needs to go in, deeper into their own stuff. But you'll be surprised how much of a connection there is in how I believe that show at the workplace.

I believe that. And you know, we, we always operate from a, a good, better, best approach. Right. And the best is if you do the entire package of the services that include. Right. Going deeper. And sometimes that's referring them out to a psychiatrist or psychologist. Sometimes it's just one on one coaching with somebody on our team.

And obviously we're at the mercy of budgets and all that other good stuff. But I think we always want to try to be a resource and that's why we do this podcast. You know that. Wow. If you're on the show, Hector, and you've given some insights, that's another pathway for them to gain some understanding. Maybe they reach out to you directly and say, hey, I happen to live in the Miami, Fort Lauderdale area. Or maybe it's just your descriptions. And so the motivation there is to.

Is to not leave that stuff just sitting. Because I think you would agree or you would probably. I'm taking a great liberty when I say that I got to be careful. Is it a case of if a wound is not addressed, does. Does it fester and does it spread? Is it. I mean, it's not a static thing.

Right.

It shows up in many different ways. Yeah, it can show up physically.

Yeah.

One of the most common ways that it shows up is they start losing sleep. That's like really like super common sometimes physical symptoms of like rashes.

Can I, can I stop you there? Because that is so interesting when you talk about sleep. So if I might go a little bit deeper on that one. Okay. If someone says, I can't. Is it, I can't get any sleep. I sleep for two hours and I wake up and I can't get back to sleep. Is it that kind of stuff or just.

It's usually the. Unable to stay asleep.

Okay.

So if the person is able to quickly fall asleep, then most likely is that there's still a group number of people that they have a problem falling asleep, but it's because they spend the whole night ruminating and getting stuck on this. Remember that singular gyrus is also the part that we get stuck on a thought, so they have it very active. Then there's just. They're stuck on it and kind of go with the flow a little bit to like, let it go. Let go of that thought. So then you can get some restful sleep. In our sleep, when we start going into the subconscious, you know, the deeper stages of sleep, ideas resurface, fears resurface, things that we saw at some point also resurface, and they show up by us just randomly waking up and then multiple times in the night. That's a very common symptom that I have from people when they're definitely struggling with this kind of getting stuck on a thought, getting these fears.

The most common thing is that. But to answer your question, yes, it shows up in many different ways. I tell my patients, remember your brain. It's called the computer for a reason.

Right.

It's controlling everybody else, every single other organ system, and it does it through wires, nerves. We have wires everywhere, you know, so imagine any symptom that you could imagine can show up that way. So someone might tell. I might tell them, you know, this is anxiety or this is a trauma response. But I don't have those thoughts. Not afraid of anything. Yeah, but it's showing in how you're losing your hair, are you not sleeping, you're having all these random stomach aches. Your period in women is off.

Right.

So it shows up. You know, it's a really good book called the Body Keeps a Score.

Yes, I remember that.

Right.

It shows up in many different ways. And it's because our, you know, this wiring system is everywhere. Wow.

Wow. All right, so we're. One of the things that I realized early on when I have a great guest, is there's never enough time, because I could keep going here, but I want to get.

I warn you of that forever.

Yeah, but that's okay, because it's such great information. I want to take a moment to talk about neuroplasticity and micro traumas. Typically, when we hear the word utter trauma, there's a. The connotation of. I mean, the big things, you know, my. My parents abused me, or, you know, I. I was in a car accident and I almost died. Or fill in the blank.

But can you talk about that as it relates to the micro traumas and that neuroplasticity.

We call those, like, you know, big T traumas, little T traumas. I. You know, those are terms that we use all the time. I'm not. I'm more of the side of, like, I don't like to, you know, put grades, because for me, that might be a big T trauma. For you, you're like, that's not a big deal.

Right.

Vice versa, multi traumas. But when we look at micro Traumas, I see them more as, like, stressors. So let's say you had a big T trauma at some point in your life and you blocked it. Now you're going through a life change, a life stressor.

Right.

We got married, we're buying a new house. We got fired. A family member passed away. My dog passed away. Big stressors like that can kind of activate your nervous system to react the same way. If it was a big T trauma, suddenly you start having all these symptoms again that you might have had them when you were a teenager, but you. It kind of went away. So then you're like, I'm fine.

Right.

Never really seeked help. But then now you're going through this change of getting married or having a miscarriage and losing a baby. Your body goes back into survival mode, and all these brain areas that are trying to protect you turn on. And then now you start having all these symptoms again that you. Again, you didn't make a connection of it. Oh, I did have those in high school when my parents divorced or when, you know, I was maybe abused. I don't remember if I was abused.

Right.

That happens to block a lot of those memories, especially from childhood. You're still having symptoms of them today. So those micro traumas, what they tend to do, they tend to kind of ignite this wound or poke it.

Right.

Oh, something else that I. That, you know, was stressful, that it looks like, sounds like, smells like this thing that happened to me maybe 20 years ago, and some symptoms resurface.

So when you say that, it makes me think of like a scab, you know, and you. You maybe you pick at it a little bit, and then you keep going back to it. I don't know if that's necessarily exactly a connector, but I guess, Hector, I'm thinking of it in terms of it's going to resurface. Maybe the big thing is that kind of where you're going with it, that's.

Technically what it is. But still, it's funny because. So I'm working on my next book, which is on these wounds.

Right.

And a scab. And I'm going a little bit more medical.

That's right, because you are a medical.

Doctor, and the whole intro of the book is talking about wounds and scabs and how we heal.

Right.

Okay. So a scab. There's already been some healing happening.

Right?

Right. Because that's a sign of.

Yes.

Healing. It's closing.

Right.

And yes, you could go back and kind of reopen that wound again.

Yes.

But what I was more referring to is that there's no scab. It's just literally rotting away.

Right.

There is pus. There is like just gross stuff when it's just covered.

Okay.

Which is why you hear sometimes doctor tells you, no, remove the. The wound, the bandage.

Remove the.

Let it. Let it, you know, heal naturally.

Yeah, right.

That. It's. I'm thinking, you know, what I'm trying to explain is more of that.

Right.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

A little cover on it.

Yeah.

And we're gonna ignore that for now. We're not gonna.

Yeah. And is that again, I. I'm. I know I'm interjecting as you're talking, but this is so fascinating. Is. Is that. Is that maybe the case of where, Gosh, how would I say this? The infection is. Is becoming more and more evident because it's not healing.

No. And it spills into all different areas of your life. That's why I think of it as a. As a rotting wound. Because now you're going to get some redness, some irritation, some pain, itchiness, and then pus. Like gross stuff.

Right.

So when I think of that, I think of these other symptoms that are showing up in your life. Maybe you become more irritable towards your spouse that before they're like, wait, what's wrong with you? You've never been this person. Right, Right. And it's because they're going through the stressor that kind of triggered or pressed that wound from many years ago. And now I'm just reacting like this to this other person. So it does spill over.

And. And it's interesting to me, and I've made this observation at least, or an analogy before on our show. It's kind of like, at least in my head, it's that if, Hector, you and I were going on a walk in a park and I tripped, I fell into a broken glass bottle and cut open my knee, and it's bleeding. And Hector, you go, hey, we got to do something about that. That, you know, you're bleeding.

You.

We need to get that taken care of. And I go, eh, no, I don't think so. Let's just keep walking. I think that's what we did with our brains and these wounds. And I know the brain wants to protect us. The brain wants, you know, all of that, but, man, you know, when we think about the support systems we have had historically, and I, again, I acknowledge, I think it's better today than it was maybe 20 years ago. But our support systems that basically said, oh, no, you're just losing a lot of blood.

You'll be fine.

Come on, let's go. You would never do that.

You know, even today, when we're looking for support systems, when we're building our tribe.

Right.

I tell patients, let's look for people who are going to take care of my garden.

Right.

They're going to take care of all this work that we're putting into this thing.

Right.

It's very quickly to see because that person usually that says, no, okay, fine, like, don't worry about it. We don't have to heal it.

Right.

Or you're bleeding and it's like, oh, usually they have their own wounds and they just kind of freaked out, and now they're seeing that you're hurt by something and they don't know how to cope with that moment of stress. So they have been kind of like, triggered too, Right?

Yeah.

And we see that a lot in our. I think in our parents. You know, unfortunately. I say unfortunately. There's this common belief that we're going to blame mom and dad for everything. I'm not saying that not every parent.

Right.

I'm not generalizing here, but, you know, I think for many of us, our parents tried the best that they can, but most of the time whenever that parent either did that, like, oh, I don't care, or. Or we're going to deal with that later, is they don't know how to deal with their own wounds and they're just passing on to you what they did.

Yeah.

Thinking that that's going to help you too.

Right.

Thinking that by them just telling you like, no, no, no, you're fine. Don't worry about it. It's because they never were taught what to do, which I think that's one of the biggest shifts we're having today in our country and even in the world is. Is people are becoming more understanding, more receptive. Oh, wait a minute. This is because of this.

Right.

I'm reacting like this towards this person is because I also have my own. My own stuff that I haven't healed from. But you know what? I'm here for you. I don't know what to do.

Right.

You're bleeding. I don't know what to do. But then let's go to someone that can help us with what's happening here.

Right.

So I think that is shifting a little bit. I mean, we can generalize.

Right.

But in my opinion, that's something that I've seen a lot.

Right.

It's. That person just didn't know what to do. With their own wounds and usually, let's say a parent.

Well, I know for me, I, I have acquired, if not developed a great deal of empathy for my parents. And I, I almost would say, if I can so laughingly say, maybe I started realizing that when I became a.

Parent because it's not easy.

Oh, yeah, right. It's kind of the joke. You know, I stopped giving parental advice when I had kids. But, you know, I think maybe that's really a good cycle. Right. Where we kind of come to the understanding that, you know, every parent has made mistakes, you know, and even some big ones, but they probably were trying to do the best they could in that time with what they had and.

What they were taught by their parents.

Yes, right.

A lot of this, you know, we talked about generational trauma and we're not gonna open up that Pandora's box, but a lot of that also comes from that, you know, their parents were also taught them that, that way, you know, so I'm, you know, I'm a firm believer that that's usually the case. So. But when you're bleeding in that moment, you're not thinking about that, you're thinking about crap, I'm bleeding.

Yeah.

Want to help me? Like, what kind of, you know, parent kind of wife are you? What kind of friend are you?

Right.

But we don't think in that moment, like, oh crap, you went through the same thing and you just don't know what to do either.

Right?

We don't think of that either.

Yeah.

We're so self centered, especially in that moment.

Right.

So it's, it's hard. You know, people are complicated. We're complicated. Our, our brain is not as simple as at one point they taught us that it was just to salivate, to walk. You know, our brain has a lot of functions and, and to say that all these things we do and we just kind of adapt, go with it.

Right.

Because we weren't really given the right tools at that point.

I sometimes think, you know, Hector, the here in the United States, anyway, I'm going to speak to that. I mean, and I know maybe in Europe, maybe it's real football, but in our nation, we call it football. Right. I think we've, and maybe this has trickled over into the industry, the, the corporate, the approach that, you know, you just got to keep pushing, you got to keep grinding, you know, and to stop or to pause or to say, hey, I can't do this. It's a defeat. It's like you're. Now you're down 21 points, and it's the fourth quarter, and I know. And again, though we're not in the clinical world, I remind my clients this thing called life is not a football game.

It's not a competition. It's not about who can endure the most and come to the end.

And.

And my hope is, is that we're becoming more, like, aware that actually that is to our detriment. You know what I mean?

Yep.

So you need to be able to stop.

Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, I can't imagine someone who thinks they. I mean, I'm going to say this with empathy. I can't imagine what it would be like if you thought, I can't stop. I can't. I can't rest, I can't. I can't reflect.

Because, I mean, it's a sign of. To me, you know, you're heading for a. You're heading for a wall. But on that note, relationships, we were talking kind of the support system and who do you have around you? Those kind of things. Can we talk a little bit about relationships and connection? I know, personally, for me, I'd love to hear your thoughts on what is the value to us in having strong connections, but I want to allow you to kind of go with it in another direction, too.

Well, it's funny, because the next issue of our magazine is the connection issue about how we connect, why we connect. I mean, we are social creatures, right? We are wired to bond, right? There's an actual chemical that is shot out in our body, so we bond with someone, right? And it makes us feel good. Oxytocin. We tend to use it. We think about it, when it's a mom had a baby, her oxytocin rises so she can really just bond with the baby. But the same thing happens in all kinds of relationships, right? Most of the time, romantic ones. And then there are certain people that kind of trigger that oxytocin. You know, we call them those safe people in our lives, right? So to say that we can just be on our own, right? And a perfect example was the pandemic.

I think it was one of the times in. In the world that we saw a huge rise in anxiety, for example, in feelings of isolation, because we are not meant to be isolated. Our brain, our body, is wired to bond, connect with another person, and produce chemicals that make me feel good when I bond. So there's even a reward system automatically that is wired in our body to say, this, this is good. This makes me feel good. You know, I usually tell people, like, one of the first times ever that I went to a music festival was last. Last year. I had never been to a music festival.

I never like that kind of music. Like, didn't really do it for me. I had friends that invited me, and I was like, okay, what? You know what? Let's go curious. Let's go. Let's go check it out. There was a lot of this feeling of connection, and granted, it was just music playing. So touching back a little bit about how music makes us feel. Music does generate certain feelings, and there are studies that say that certain sounds actually increase levels of oxytocin.

There are certain sounds that lower cortisol. So there is a power in groups, Right. You know, we have the concept of family, friendship, all these, like, the idea was circle, right? Those people around us, we are meant to bond, and our body goes haywire when we don't. One of the things that I always look for in someone with severe depression is not wanting to bond, not wanting to connect with another person.

Right.

So one of my criteria to say how good or, you know, level of severity that this person might be having in their depressive symptoms is, do you, you know, do you have times where you just kind of go with the flow and go to social situations, or do you say, you know what? I want to connect with this person. I want to know more about you? No, I usually don't have that desire. It goes hand in hand with symptoms, you know, depression, anxiety, ptsd. Because we don't, you know, we're losing our. A big part of our nature when we don't want to have that desire to bond. So for me, the. The. The concept of connection, right? Connecting with other people, being able to generally bond, not just socialize.

No, I'm not telling. Just going to a party and talking to people. No, like saying, you know what? I want to connect with this person. The word vibe, right? Yeah, I have a good vibe with this person. So let's connect, right? And I want to know more about you, your story, and vice versa. So that right there gives us a reward kick in of oxytocin, dopamine, which a lot of the times, unfortunately, people try to recreate it with illicit drugs.

Yeah.

They don't have it. They lack it. So then they put it in their body in a different way.

So.

So can I ask you, since you mentioned the pandemic, would I be correct in thinking that the levels of oxytocin probably went down tremendously during that period?

I would probably say that if that was tested. And I haven't found a study that has done that and someone out there has done it. Send it to me.

Yeah, absolutely.

A lot of this concept of oxytocin.

And I almost would wonder what's the impact of being. Of that being absent.

If.

I mean, and I'm thinking in my world, within my family, and it was four of us, right? My wife and my two kids, even though they were grown at the time, I mean, we kind of grew closer. I mean, obviously we didn't have the ability to any other. The relationships outside per se. But I. I get to thinking if that was just like a. A tipping for other things, right. You mentioned illicit drugs and alcohol. I wonder sometimes, like these.

I. I may be getting the name wrong, Hector, but I remember I was listening to this podcast where they were talking about this site called Only Fans. And I always remembered Only Fans, just from the perspective of. I mean, I quite frankly thought it's just women who are. It's quasi porn. Right. But this particular podcast was just analyzing the numbers behind it and, and why men gravitated and. And though the gravitation, certainly sexual in nature, pornographic in nature, but there was much more.

And they were. They were talking about this idea of loneliness and isolation. And it's almost, in some ways they were kind of alluding to it as being. It's been normalized. Like this is just like normal to. To them. Does that ring true for you? I mean, in the sense of that. That.

Can we get to that place where, I mean, we. You make great arguments for the bonding and the connection thing, but if we start down that path of isolation, can that lead to, oh, this is normal for me, this is.

This.

There's nothing wrong.

I think it can really cause a lot more issues than we might be seeing today. During the pandemic, there was definitely a big rise in Only Fans. And I know plenty of people that actually went into that. I was actually in a podcast, interviewed by two of them, which I thought was fascinating. We're talking about sexual wellness. Completely different conversation. What it definitely did when it comes to this, this, you know, this thing that I think is happening to a lot of people, the feeling of loneliness.

Right.

I think it created a false connection.

Right.

I mean, when you're looking at something and that person is talking to you, the brain doesn't know the difference. I think that's what I believe. The brain doesn't know the difference. This thing is talking to me and we're interacting, and then that's when we start creating fantasies of maybe dating that person. If we're going to go talking about OnlyFans.

Right.

It's, it's taking. And you can see it in, in the, the 20 somethings right. Of, of our time right now. People that don't want to get married, don't want to go into relationships. There's a huge delay in that phase of development. I mean we all have phases of development. Right. Childhood, adolescence, adulthood, older adulthood.

Yeah.

Getting people stuck.

Right.

Being like forever single. But it's because I don't have desire to have this meaningful, real relationship with this person that is next to me. Now we're talking about only fans, but let's talk about AI.

Yeah. Yeah.

And these like, you know, I've had patients that believe that this AI is their girlfriend or is their boyfriend. Imagine what that could happen. I think 20 years, 30 years, 50 years from now. And how these technologies advance. There is a reason why mental health issues are rising. And the biggest rise happened during the pandemic. But it did open the box to these other areas where people were looking for something or someone to connect and they found this artificial thing.

Yeah.

Know.

And even though I know the person behind the camera and only fans is not artificial, but there's an artificial bond that is being created.

Yeah. Because ultimately it's not real. Because there's no true connection. There's no true bonding. Yeah. And you know, you, you, you mentioned about this, about your brain doesn't know that it's not real. And I go, wow. Because that could be a slippery slope for someone because you, you begin to see the unreal as real.

And, and a lot of it has to do with the age of the person.

Right, Right.

That prefrontal cortex, it doesn't get developed fully until the age of 25, 27, which allows me to make decisions, to be able to separate the these concepts, these truths.

Right.

So if that is being changed, you know, talked a little bit about neuroplasticity.

Yeah.

What could happen to those brains as they age.

Wow.

With this false concept of what is a connection, a true human connection. I mean I'm not against technology. Look at us today, we're completely able to do this.

Right.

And, and most of my patients, I see them like this. However, I am very old school with this, that the real human connection, hugging someone, I can't do that through a lens.

Right.

And that part, little by little, we start losing it.

Right.

And I don't know what's going to come out of that. I don't know what kind of human being is going to come out of that, I don't think it's positive. I don't think it's positive because our natural, our nature is to bond.

Yeah. Because you would have to almost, at least in my mind, you would almost have to have a different type of brain in order for it to work. Because if my brain is meant to release oxytocin and dopamine and all of that. Oh, gosh. Wow. So keep growing your practice, Hector, and we'll solve all the problems of the world. But no, it's. It's all.

You see how the soul is so important.

Yeah.

Concepts can really change. And not just an individual, but a family and a society.

Yeah.

You know, the concepts of bonding is so crucial for us to have, like, real bonding.

Yeah. You know, it makes me think in my observations of family members, and I have one specifically in my mind, you know, and I just really never thought about it, but it's kind of. Yeah, he. He's probably got a pretty healthy soul because he's in that 20ish range. But he's not. How would I say it, Hector? He's not. It's going to sound flippant, but he's not fooled by the intention of these particular forces. Right.

And that includes AI. And I like you, I believe technology has a wonderful and positive place. But like many things, it can also be used and be designed to do things that I don't think we fully understand the ramifications of it. I really don't.

A really good book is An Anxious Generation or the Anxious Generation. And we're so constantly getting fed fake dopamine. So now we have a very anxious generation that is. Has their brain trained to be an addict, to be constantly getting quick dopamine.

Right.

So that's scary. So I'm really glad to hear that. You know, there's other professionals out there studying what this could mean down the line for us as, you know, as a humanity.

Right.

Yeah. And I don't know if this is going to go into a positive place. And I'm referring, like things like AI when they're being used for something like that.

Right.

Creating these false connections and this, you know, this boyfriend, girlfriend thing, which is, you know, I'm 42 and I have seen, you know, many devices, Nokia at one point, but the kids today didn't have that.

Right.

So now we're already seeing the world through a different lens.

Do you think this is kind of off of the beaten path? And I know we're getting close to, to the end of the show, but do you Think that the events that have been happening recently, and I'm speaking of more of the violence, do you think there's maybe a potential catalyst that maybe it would make people.

Not all.

I mean, I'm using a broad statement here to maybe return to a bit more humanness versus all of this technology and artificial.

It definitely takes us away from just throwing away people.

Right.

That's not important to me anymore. If I've trained on my brain to this is important and this thing that is immediately in front of me that I think is real, but this is more important. That's one concept. And there's a lot to say about group think.

Right.

So a lot of these, you know, apps, social media things, have a specific algorithm that would follow what you just keep searching. So if I keep searching, gun, violence, whatever, that's all I'm going to see.

Yeah.

It reinforces, you know, going back to the beginning of our conversation, it reinforces this thought process of, this is truth. This is how I'm supposed to be. Yeah. And if I lose that humanity, that love for another person next to me because they're another human being and they, you know, they also deserve love and care. Where are we going to go? Events like these, things that have been happening.

Yeah.

And scary.

Yeah, it is. And I guess. And I had this conversation earlier today with someone about that. I think acknowledging where something is deficient is absolutely valid. It's not valid to not want to do anything to make it better. I. I always want people, whether it's in a professional setting or in my private life, it's okay for you to tell me, I made a mistake, I messed up, something's not working. Okay.

Now what do we want to do to make it better? And if I can't help you, I know a lot of people, and obviously that ranges, but there's a lot of ways to get the help. Despite what happened to you or what mistake you made, I sometimes think, Hector, you know, we moved into this place of like, again, I use the football analogy. Right. Like, somehow, you know, and I use this because it's my faith walk. But God's up there keeping score.

He.

He's. He's paying attention. Did you score? Did you get the first down? Did. Did you block? And I know for. For me, that's not what this is about, because quite frankly, and I know you know this too, Right. I got a lot of mistakes. I got a history full of them.

Right.

So we all have missed the mark. We all have. Wow, this has been so great. I so appreciate you coming on the show. And that is another veiled way of me saying you think you might want to come back for a second show too? Because I know our audience is going to get a lot out of our time, honestly.

Definitely. And then when we first spoke, going back to that vibe, that bonding, I was like, yeah, I really like this guy. If he keeps inviting me, I'll keep coming on. We can talk many topics. That's perfect. Yeah, for sure.

That's great. And for our audience, we'll have Dr. Hector's information in the show notes, all that you want to know about him, about his books. I imagine you'll probably have something about his upcoming book and ways to get in touch. And certainly, Hector, we look forward to the next time that we're together as well.

Me too.

Thank you so much.

Take care.