Artwork for podcast Spirit of EQ
Exploring Ethical AI Use with Credo AI's Giovanni Leoni
Episode 11514th February 2024 • Spirit of EQ • Jeff East and Eric Pennington
00:00:00 00:54:46

Share Episode

Shownotes

Spirit of EQ

115 Exploring Ethical AI Use with Credo AI's Giovanni Leoni

In this episode of the Spirit of EQ podcast, host Luke Cavanagh welcomes Giovanni Leoni as they delve into the impact of artificial intelligence (AI) on human experience and organizations. Giovanni, the head of business strategy and development at Credo AI, highlights the importance of aligning AI with human values, while Luke emphasizes the need to approach technological change with a positive mindset.

Adoption of AI Technology

The episode kicks off by discussing the widespread use of AI in society, with smartphones serving as ubiquitous AI devices. However, only 10% of organizations are considered mature in their adoption of AI. The conversation highlights the potential positive changes AI can bring and the critical need for conversations about designing products and services in alignment with human values. It sets the stage for exploring the impact of AI on work and the challenges of navigating technological change.

The Impact of AI on Work Tasks

Giovanni and Luke discuss how AI will affect tens of millions of people in the United States, emphasizing the importance of embracing change with a positive mindset. They underscore the need for individuals to reinvent themselves multiple times in their work lives and explore proactive and passive approaches organizations can take in adapting to technological change. The example of IKEA adapting to technological change is cited, highlighting the risks of a wait-and-see approach in the current fast-paced environment.

Adapting to Technological Change

The conversation turns to the human impact of technological change, emphasizing the importance of avoiding emotional suffering and acknowledging the challenge of people identifying themselves with specific tasks. While the ability to deliver value remains constant, the shape and form of tasks will evolve. Companies must train and equip their employees to remain flexible and agile amidst the rapidly changing technological landscape. The rate of change is increasing, making it challenging to predict future tasks and roles accurately.

Navigating AI and Human Connection in the Workplace

Luke and Giovanni transition to discussing the role of curiosity and human connection in adapting to technological changes. They emphasize the need for employees to connect across different units, understand the bigger picture, and drive sustainable change in organizations. The importance of authentic human connection in the workplace is highlighted, along with the challenges of connecting with others who may have different perspectives and goals.

Embracing Diversity of Thought

They stress the significance of diversity of thought and creating a psychologically safe environment to foster effective collaboration. Giovanni outlines the emotional challenges that come with change and the importance of acknowledging and supporting individuals through it. He further emphasizes the need for employees to be involved in the change process to ensure organizational success and encourages organizations to invest in and engage their employees amidst technological advancements.

Future Trends and Considerations

Giovanni predicts a fundamental shift in various areas, including customer interactions, marketing, sales, and internal organizational mechanics within 3 to 5 years. He anticipates that customer interactions and marketing will be largely automated, impacting roles in retail, marketing, sales, and communication. The use of generative AI will meet the nuance of people's questions and needs, leading to a fundamental shift in sectors with a high degree of workforce involvement.

10 Takeaways

1. The Impact of AI and Chat GPT Technology: The discussion sheds light on the significant impact of AI and Chat GPT technology on human experiences and organizations, addressing both the potential benefits and challenges associated with their widespread adoption.

2. Fundamental Shift in Various Areas: With the adoption and integration of AI technology, there will be a fundamental shift in various areas such as customer interactions, marketing, sales, and internal organizational mechanics.

3. Automation of Customer Interactions and Marketing: It is predicted that within 3 to 5 years, customer interactions and marketing will largely be automated, significantly impacting retail, marketing, sales, and communication roles.

4. Shift in Sectors with High Workforce Involvement: The use of generative AI is anticipated to lead to a fundamental shift in sectors with high degrees of workforce involvement, impacting the nature of work and roles within these sectors.

5. Prioritizing the Human Element: Despite the advancements in technology, there is an emphasis on the importance of prioritizing the human element in organizations amidst the push for hyper-efficiency and advanced technology.

6. Emotional Challenges and Support Through Change: The conversation acknowledges the emotional challenges that come with technological change and underscores the importance of acknowledging and supporting individuals through it.

7. Importance of Employee Engagement and Investment: Giovanni highlights the significance of engaging and investing in employees amidst technological advancements, emphasizing the human factor in driving organizational success.

8. Curiosity and Human Connection in Adapting to Technology: The role of curiosity and human connection is emphasized in navigating technological changes and fostering sustainable change in the workplace.

9. Psychologically Safe Environment and Diversity of Thought: The importance of creating a psychologically safe environment and fostering diversity of thought for effective collaboration is highlighted in the discussion.

10. Developing Capabilities to Adapt to Technology: The need for organizations and individuals to develop capabilities to adapt to and complement AI and technology to deliver value is underscored, including being ready to adopt new tasks quickly and developing agility.

Memorable Moments

00:00 20 years of deep involvement in AI, and ethics.

04:19 AI's ethical use, positive business change.

07:04 AI's influence grows; organizations slow to adopt.

11:25 Technology must meet human needs to succeed.

16:17 Generative AI allows nuanced, scalable shifts in workplaces.

18:22 Millions facing work changes due to AI.

23:29 Waiting for change leads to negative consequences.

25:25 Successful adoption and adaptation amidst technological challenges.

28:42 Key point: Bringing people along, value delivery, change.

32:54 Efficiency and adaptability are crucial in the supply chain.

38:15 Connecting with others, understanding context, and adaptation.

40:35 Reiterating good points on human connection in AI.

46:09 Leaders prioritize efficiency over psychological safety and collaboration.

47:17 Change management must prioritize human involvement first.

52:16 CEO prioritizes and supports employees' personal growth.

Giovanni Leoni is the Head of Business Strategy & Development at Credo AI, one of the global leaders in operationalizing Responsible AI across all industries. Up until recently, he was Global Head of Algorithm and AI Ethics at Inter IKEA Group, responsible for developing, implementing, and leading the operationalization of responsible analytics across the Inter IKEA Group, encompassing all algorithmic processes, including administrative processes, operational processes, analytics, and AI. He is an active contributor to the global AI ethics community, engaging in legislative industry consultations and various forums and bodies, among them being on the Board of Advisors for Ethical Artificial Intelligence Governance Group, Board Member for Transparency International Sweden, Nordic Ethical AI Expert Group member for Nordic Innovation, an organization under The Nordic Council of Ministers and The Nordic Council and also a Member of the Responsible Applications & Transformation Working Group at the World Economic Forum. For more than 20 years he has been active across multiple sectors, private and public, driving the development of user experience, sustainable change management, and clarity in impacting factors for better business and wrapping everything in numbers and decision models. He has worked in diverse areas, including public sector processes, sales, procurement of services, digital platforms and physical products, supply chain, automatization, and business analytics.



In each episode, Jeff and Eric will talk about what emotional intelligence, or understanding your emotions, can do for you in your daily and work life. For more information, contact Eric or Jeff at info@spiritofeq.com, or go to their website, Spirit of EQ.

You can follow The Spirit of EQ Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Android, or on your favorite podcast player.

New episodes are available on the 2nd and 4th Wednesdays every month!

Please review our podcast on iTunes. Click on the link for an easy, step-by-step tutorial.



Music from Uppbeat

https://uppbeat.io/t/roo-walker/deeper

License code: PEYKDJHQNGSZXDUE

We hope you enjoy the podcast. Hopefully, you're tuning in on a regular basis. We'd love it if you would give us a great review on whatever platform you're listening to the podcast. It's so appreciative and helps us as we try to get more exposure for the work we do and the episodes that we publish. We're grateful to you as a listener. Secondly, our content is for educational purposes only. It's not intended by any stretch to diagnose or treat anything that may be occurring in your life or anyone else's life that you may be connected to through the podcast. And as always, we look forward to the next time that we're together. Take care.

Spirit of EQ

Transcripts

Luke Cavanagh [:

Welcome everybody to another edition of the Spirit of EQ podcast. My name is Luke Cavanaugh. I'm your host for today. And today, we're gonna be talking with Giovanni Leone about a topic that is literally gonna change the world and change life as we know it. We just don't know exactly how yet. The topic as you might guess is artificial intelligence. And Giovanni is my guest today, Giovanni Leone. He is with, Credo AI, longtime former colleague of mine.

Luke Cavanagh [:

We've known each other for in in many different, iterations and places, and now, Giovanni's carrying the torch for ethical use of AI in businesses. So, Giovanni, I'm gonna throw it over to you now. Please introduce yourself for us.

Giovanni Leoni [:

Thank you, Luke, and, really appreciate it to be able to be on this podcast. I'm really looking forward to the conversation and happy to to see that this is one another iteration of the cycle of our Over engagement over the

Luke Cavanagh [:

years.

Giovanni Leoni [:

So I've been deep into the topic of improving businesses, processes, It says be deep into East business operations, analytics, and AI, and Jeff ethical use of AI for the past 20 years. It's closing up on 25 as it is. And one thing that has why I've been engaging in the topic of how to improve business with data and how to be able to bring in the human perspective, it's been that we can we can create such great efficiencies, and better products and better services with the use of data and AI. But as you get close and understand How that is being used in organizations, it becomes a higher realization that it needs also to cater for the impact it has on humans and society, both within the organization and how it impacts the world around us. And we're starting to see an increased need as the increased use of AI comes across society, Not only in our smartphones and and through smart products and services or the use of shot GPT, but actually, fundamentally, change of how we, business as an organization's function, The the the interest and demand of seeing how do we also cater for the demands that technology should serve good, Not only creating efficiency, but also positive impact on on on people in society. So happy to be on of this conversation today with you, to kinda dwell into these topics in in multiple dimensions.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah. That's great. Thanks for the introduction, Giovanni. And I wanna make sure we don't miss, just tell us in a couple of words, Credo AI, what is what is what is Credo AI do, and what's your role there in in that company?

Giovanni Leoni [:

Yes. So Credo AI is an software company providing an SaaS platform for responsible AI governance To support organizations to bring in their frameworks that are relevant to steer AI and govern AI. So it's to support organizations to bring in their own, ethical internal policies around AI East Stearler frameworks like standards or regulation or guidelines to be able to steer the use of AI So it aligns with the internal values of our organization, but also aligns with external demands of frameworks.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

This is, I would and that's something that is quite it's a complex topic while it's also quite straightforward Eric always a need to steer, technology and and how it's used. The only difference is that the platform that we provide is to support that across organizations, and it's quite novel technology. And my role there is head of business strategy and development. I engaged to see how we can progress this, across the world with both, customers and partners, And to be able to see how we can support them on the journey of building the capability around AI governance.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah. This is that's great. Yeah. So you're doing real work, around ethical use of artificial intelligence right now, today, which is fantastic. With the way you frame it to me, You know, it it's and this this is really what we're gonna talk about today is not really, you know, what's AI. It's a it's not it's not it's not an attempt to go into all the that AI might be in the future. We'll talk a little bit about that, but it's really about it's really about trying to, Think about the change process that people are gonna go through, that businesses are gonna have to go through, and how we can turn that into potentially a positive change process. Right? Because when you talk about, you know, the need for the use of AI to align with company values, I think when you when you think about the the magnitude of the change that AI will bring, that's really to me sounds like an opportunity to kind of, You know, reframe the role of values even, in business operations and how, how beneficial businesses really are to the people that work for them and, and their experience there.

Luke Cavanagh [:

So it's a great opportunity. So let's, let's step back here now. You know, this is it's an it this is I introduced this as saying AI is, you know, something that's gonna change the world as we know it, right, in life on Earth, and we don't know exactly how. I thought for you know, I've been we've we've been talking about having this conversation for a few weeks now, so I've thought about what's the first question I should ask, Giovanni. And I'm still honestly not sure what the pro like, what the first question is. And metaphorically, I think that's a good thing to kind of admit. It's like, I don't really know where to start. And, and and the whole to me, I mean, I think to the to the average person who my familiarity with AI is I've dabbled in chat GPT.

Luke Cavanagh [:

I would think that's probably the average maybe maybe the average person's familiarity with AI, you know, or or maybe I'm even I don't know. Would you say I'm even in the early majority having dabbled with g chat GPT at all?

Giovanni Leoni [:

I would say so. Yeah. And I would say so. And I think that's that Our experience of of AI is is both early, but also widely used. Most people are in some way directly or indirectly in contact with smartphones. Smartphones are walking AI devices. They are developed in such a way to be a smart symbiosis of hardware, software, and and applications. These are, fueled with smart use of algorithms, and we are using them on a daily basis directly or indirectly.

Giovanni Leoni [:

It's a pervasive Spirit of our society. And the more digital solutions out there, are highly infused by artificial intelligence. So I think that we are close to AI in many ways, shapes, and form. But at the same time, there's still a very small, small, share of our organizations across the world There are fully AI mature that I have embedded it in their organization. I think a lot of talk majority are talking about it. Majority are one thing could have start their journey on how to use it and embed it in their organizations. But, as, as, as was stated by the East earnings call by Centur, their perception is that only 10% of organizations are are mature as of today. Okay.

Giovanni Leoni [:

So we're still in the beginning All full adoption of using this technology as organizations. We're meeting them meeting AI East product and services, but I think it kind of to kind of Where to start off this conversation, I think one need to acknowledge that as with most technologies, whether that has been, Electricity, or it has been computers. The pervasiveness of AI will come everywhere where we have digital pricing solutions. It's just a matter of time when that becomes the fact. So the the the question is, Robert, how do we want that to look like?

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

How do we want to be able to use that? And if there's no limitations to the the the speed of use or the efficiency to use something, Of, of a digital product or service. What do we want that to look like?

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

Because I think that's Maybe you've been one of the the the challenges, we've seen, over the course of the the at least the last 10 years that I've been into this topic specifically is that That it's been hard to have a conversation like, okay. Let's let's imagine that we can develop products and services in whatever shape or form we want.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

How do we want that to look like? Mhmm. What requirements do we have on that? The use of data and algorithms, and what is the human experience that we want to look for. So I think that kind of the the the giving space for that kind of discussion. Also, then kind of really caters for, okay, how do we avoid it going in the wrong direction? How do we avoid it creating negative impact, and how do we cater for, the redesign of organizations and way you're working or way your products and services going forward.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Let's let's 0 in then on because so so what you've said so far is We actually we actually are swimming in a sea of AI already, most of us, right, with iPhones and and all those kinds of things and Alexas. And, but somehow this the the moment that we're in right now, we're chat GPT. I think you've called it, what, a hype cycle or it is that is that what you called it before? I've never heard that term before. You in our earlier conversation, just for the audience, you you you called it a hype cycle. So what what what leap forward does chat g p t represent right now in in AI.

Giovanni Leoni [:

I would say that whom I believe have framed absolutely best, was, the the former chief decision officer at Google, Kasey Kosirov. She, she framed it as that chat GPT was less of a revolution in AI because The the use of transformers, which is the underlying technology and the use of large language models, which has been around for For a couple years before, last November, wasn't the big thing. The big thing was the user experience being able for anyone to just ask questions or provide large amounts of EQ.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

And get something rather intelligently back.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

And being able to have a user Spirit that we haven't had in the same way before.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

And I think this really pinpoints the key point here that It is you can have as smart technology as possible. We can kind of get really excited about it, But it's not it will not create a shifting change until it meets humans where they need it So right now, during the past year, with an excitement, all this user experience Fueled by by AI, large language models, and generative AI being able to both generate text and code and and imagery. It's been exciting. We're we're going to go through now is a phase of figuring out how does how can we reduce this? How does this fit into our way of working or product and services going forward? So we will go into a kind of an exploration of that. We'll meet hurdles where it doesn't work or there is not enough data, to do things or it's not relevant enough Or they can't find a user interface that makes sense, and then we'll come into the next cycle, which is Where this is adopted at scale, where we'll see a shift of tasks. We'll see new products and services. We'll see a change on the demands we have on co colleagues and coworkers that are working with data and AI as an augmentor instead of just using it as a tool on the side.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm. So we come to the change of so so if I had to, like, say, you know, imagining what you know about AI, You know, you know more than the average person right now, but you still don't have a crystal ball that can predict the future. Right? But if you were guess I mean, if I had to really put pressure on you right now and say, like, 3 to 5 years from now. Let's imagine, you know, more organizations are, as you say, AI mature, or this is really kind of much more embedded in everyday life. What are what are, like, 2 or 3 areas of real big change That are gonna that's gonna impact humans who are in the workforce today. What what what would you guess?

Giovanni Leoni [:

My I would guess that There's 3 fields of areas where we'll see a fundamental shift, which, some of them will be may be not seen by the many and some will be seen by the broader society. How Customer interactions and marketing will be done. Going forward, will be more or less completely automated.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

In the way that we experience, let's say, customer service or customer guidance in an online, but also in a physical environment where we are going through our retail shopping experience Or wanting to have support or help with a buying process, that will be completely all optimized over time.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

And that can go as fast as 3 to 5 years. Mhmm. It may be so that we have already reached peak people in retail. Mhmm. It may be so that we'll already reach peak people in marketing, sales, and communication. Mhmm. So that doesn't mean that People will vanish from from these kind of context or interfaces. It will just be a different type of role, A type of role where they are working with strategy, direction, working with being able to prompt, Quality check and steer communication and what should be said, but it will be in a much more strategic and tactical way where operations within these fields will be managed by AI, to its complete context.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm. So now we And that

Giovanni Leoni [:

will and and that will that will entail a huge fundamental shift in Both how we as as as people interact Yeah. For for marketing guidance and and sales processes, But it will also impact the organizations that of this, overall. Well, of course, we've seen tendencies of these with automatic Check out the rise and surge of online shopping, but this will just escalate. And the reason why this will escalate because I've been many, many years within Also, the kind of online context and and digital products and services is that it's really hard to meet the nuance of people's questions and needs.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

The shift with generative AI is that you can meet that nuance. So it's about we're we're seeing a shift is that we can do the use of AI can meet the nuance of reality, and it can do so at scale, still being able to meet and provide relevant product and service. So we'll see a fundamental shift in sectors that are having a quite high High degree of people in the workforce because the the the kind of service, and guidance that is provided today will not be necessary, to the same degree, and it will shift the way of how it does. So I I think that will be most apparent in the shorter time frame of 3 to 5 years. What also will be a radical, move, a shift is which is maybe not as seen, but it's the internal mechanics of Organizations. So the creation like, the execution of administrative tasks, the execution of of, let's say, IT department's, development, the codes, to be able to manage Internal workflows of information that will to a very high also be automized Because it can be steered, in a clearer way, and it can meet the nuances that otherwise have been compensated by people can then be managed by smart products and services used within organizations. So we will see an A great shift of white collar work on one side for internal, more administrative tasks, And we'll see a a huge shift in services in terms of how to be able to meet people in in guiding them, through through the experience of products and services.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah. So you talked about, I mean, 2 areas. There are 2 areas that you talked about. That is, you know, I think just here in the United States. It's it's literally, it's tens of millions of people whose whose everyday work tasks are are, going to change, going to you know? There are different ways you could say it. You could say it in the black hat way, right, or you can say it in the in the opportunity thinking way, and that's, I think, the crux of the conversation that really interests me right now because, We talk about change. I mean, you you talked a little bit about about, being at the World Economic Forum meeting recently, I think, in San Francisco and, being on an AI panel there and how the the you know, a big part of the conversation there was just around change management and managing, you know, Those 2 really good examples that you gave, you know, great answer to my question of what are some of the some of the early changes or the the the the soonest transformations we might see as a result of AI. And you described a couple of areas that are gonna impact tons and tons of people.

Luke Cavanagh [:

So I wanna dig into that a little bit because, there's one change map that I work with, from a company called 6 Seconds, which is, You know? It talks about the the cycle of forces that drive positive change and the cycle of of emotions that can work against change. And so When you can generate, emotions like excitement, courage, and curiosity, that that drives change. When you look at things from a perspective of judgment, frustration, and fear, which is gonna happen when this Kinda wave of change is coming, and we don't know what it means for us and whether it's going to make us obsolete as workers. That's what's gonna that's what's gonna create resistance in a change process. And in this case, it's not gonna slow down the of the the the adoption of AI by businesses. It's just gonna create suffering for the people impacted by it if we're stuck in a place of judgment, frustration, and fear. And, you know, I wanna be clear. I'm not predicting a a lot of suffering.

Luke Cavanagh [:

I'm just saying that if we meet these changes, if people and organizations meet these changes with High amounts of judgment, frustration, and fear, that's gonna lead to a lot more suffering as a result of this change. Would you agree with that?

Giovanni Leoni [:

Yes. And I think there one one one needs to also kind of see this as a kind of a I'm out of out of larger Cycles. Have have we been experiencing this before? Yes.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

We've been experiencing the implementation of of new technologies. We've seen the impact it has on on, businesses and and how products and services are being delivered. It usually goes over a longer period of time. So that's the difference today is that it just goes faster. Mhmm. Usually, one could have an, a type of, training and experience that lives almost throughout your work life. And what we're Really getting to understand now that you most probably need to reinvent yourself not 1 or twice, but maybe 3 times throughout your work life. Because it the rate of change of how technology can, Make a difference in the business you're doing or the the type of work you're executing is so much faster.

Giovanni Leoni [:

Mhmm. So and and we're so It's nothing new that we change and adapt. It's nothing true in the difference that organizations, changes to it. What I think is Maybe the risk as I see it is that we'll have a few organizations that are proactive. They are actively engaging their workforce. They're actively upscaling, rescaling. They're actively working with process development, seeing how technology will be enabled. They're Mining the ways, are working.

Giovanni Leoni [:

They are figuring out the new interfaces with technology. They're reinventing themselves, and they're doing that actively because they understand that they need to be a part of the change rather than than waiting for it to kind of blow over. And then we'll have the organizations so those the former, foremost, organizations, they're doing so to be relevant over time, and it's, of course, demands a lot of investment and a very conscious approach of seeing how does the new future look like for, for them as an organization and for their coworkers. The later the the organizations that are more, passive. They may maybe have been successful in their line of business for decades. They've been have EQ excellent, profits, as of now. They have an excellently kind of, A competent workforce, and they see that as it has worked, it will continue to work. And if things changes, they will have time to adapt.

Giovanni Leoni [:

If they wait, the the the because of the rate of change, they could come to a position where their competitors, are delivering products and services that are better and 10 times of the cost base. And then suddenly those that have waited will not have years to be able to change an organization, but quarters. What happens usually then when the constraint of time comes is that then you'll have impact on efficiency Because change takes times, and you will have impact with people not being geared up to have the relevant skills And the relevant tool sets to be able to go through that change in just a few quarters Yeah. And with that, we have negative consequences. So change will come. Change will happen. It's more about how do you proactively work with it to not come in that laggard situation where you'll find disruption and and and negative consequences because you just need to do it so fast to at all stay in the market.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what you described there is, of course, right. The if you because the change because it's going to the pace just continues to sort of quicken over time. Because, like, exactly what you described there, that change of, you know, the the company in the 2nd bucket there that's been successful for a long time and kind of, you know, thinks it's gonna remain successful with its model into the future, and is maybe a a little bit slower to adapt. I mean, you and I have been through that. It's not unfair to say that IKEA was that kind of company when Things like ecommerce came into the mix. Like, not a company that had been fantastically successful for a long time and probably was not particularly tech forward in the 2000, you know, after the after the Internet came.

Luke Cavanagh [:

There was some technological adoption, but, You know, they were not cutting edge the way Amazon was cutting edge. They've still managed to be successful up until now. I don't really know how things are technology wise in the organization right now with AI. You might know that better than me, but, you know, our working example was the example of a company that really had to to, scramble to catch up in certain technological areas, right, during during the 2000 and the 2000 tens and probably is still somewhat in that process. And I think what I hear you saying is that's an even higher risk approach now for any company, right, is to just kinda take the wait and see approach because the wave's just gonna probably hit you so hard, whereas you say, you're gonna have quarters to catch up, not years to catch up, and that just might not be feasible. And then when I think about the the human impact of that, you know, the the kind of East emotional suffering that that will bring to people that are inside of those organizations. It's not the only impact that that would have, but that's kind of what I'm most interested in here, especially, you know, We are in a podcast here where we talk about EQ, and to think about, you know, the way people will will react in in those kinds of situations. That's really something that I have a a great interest in in avoiding, and that's why I'm I take an interest in the work that you're doing because I think you're looking to make a positive impact there.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Right?

Giovanni Leoni [:

Yeah. And I and I think there here's where it becomes really interesting Because, because what we need to acknowledge is that humans 1, I I fundamentally believe at least. Okay. I'll I'll I'll East it as my own opinion. We couldn't be very clear. I believe, Of I'll I'll I'll think people will want to want to do a good job. That's the thing. They want to provide value, and they want to be able to see that they are are doing something that is irrelevant.

Giovanni Leoni [:

They're also that But I think what what we need to acknowledge is that we have a challenge when when people identifies the themselves with a specific set of tasks

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

As their part of their job identity and as it should be, because what we will No will shift its tasks. So to be able to deliver value will stay the same. To be relevant will stay the same, but tasks will change in one shape or form for white collar work. Interactions with technology will change the way, Tasks are executed. How we're interacting across the organization and how we're being augmented by AI will fundamentally change a lot of tasks. In the end, it could be so that one still delivers, let's say, on on, a great product whether that is home furnishing within IKEA, or a digital product, let's say, like like Netflix or anything else. But in the end, the the the the types of East will change. An individual and then augmented to an organization that goes through a process of change, The the yeah.

Giovanni Leoni [:

I think the one of the key point is that how do you bring people along that journey with their buy in That they're delivering to value for an organization, deliver to a process Rather than executing tasks. Because if one kind of tie hold on tight to tasks, The risk is that when the task vanishes, it's almost like ripping out the rug underneath people. And That of course, if if the EQ meant that we'll change tasks or they will vanish and morph into something else, How does how does one proactively work with actually creating the preconditions to be able to do so, in a in a relevant way because my experience have have been over the years of driving development within organizations, both IKEA and beyond, Is that the best people to drive positive change are the people that are already working for organization. Their implicit knowledge Of how business works, the implicit understanding of business processes and market understanding and organizational understanding is invaluable When going through that kind of change process, so the highest assets, if one would say so, are the people while at the same time, Those are the the the most challenging parts of a Shane journey for organization. It's easy to find a a new policy, a new strategy, maybe even a tactical plan how to move forward. The hard part is actually having people On that journey, both being able to feel that they find their own new place in the new way of working, But also being able to continually contribute with their knowledge.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah. And the and the challenge there, you're right. When you when you Identify people as the greatest asset, but also in some ways the greatest challenge. Right? And I what I see is that that what what creates that, The uniqueness and the challenge is largely, that's largely an emotional question because what happens in change is, You know? Our the way part of the way our brains work is they're constantly trying to predict the future, predict what's gonna happen in order to keep us safe in the future in or and also in order to be efficient. So our brains predict what what's what's going to happen in the future, based on what they know from the past. And then when we have something that's coming in totally out from the side like AI that we don't know what to make sense of, It generates these these emotions like, okay. Be scared of this. Okay.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Be, you know, be, be, judge this. Judge this. Keep yourself. Stay safe. Stay away from it. Run away from this. These are just the the thing that brains do to try and keep us safe. They're not the greatest adaptations.

Luke Cavanagh [:

They're from times when we had to run away from tigers to stay safe. You know, we don't really need to you know, AI Is is not a tiger that's trying to eat us, but our many people's brains may see it that way. And that is the question for me is, So when you talk about it's a really interesting point. When you talk about, the need for people not to identify themselves with a set of tasks And to remain sort of flexible and agile, that's really what people need to train in now, and that's a highly valuable personality trait, I guess, in this coming in this coming change. What I see is that's not really what companies say that they're looking for. I mean, if you look at a job ad anywhere, it's all it's we need you to be good at 75 different tasks. Right?

Giovanni Leoni [:

Yeah. And it comes from it comes it does it does come from a point of Where that has been successful. Yeah. It has comes from the point where we so I I I see this as kind of a at least it's a cycle of been going through We're we're becoming more and more specialized. We're becoming more and more detailed kind of being part of a like, I'm becoming that really Super sharp cogwheel in a big machine.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah.

Giovanni Leoni [:

I I remember when we were working, in in supply chain, you and me, Luke, back at IKEA, There were 200 roles that was aligned that supply chain, and each one of these 200 roles were in perfect, like, Synchronize harmony to be able to make an an a global supply chain work. So the the necessity of being very specific East come from a point of of good because one wanted to be able to kind of gear up people with the with the with the capability to deliver, To be that to to be that critical piece in a big machinery. The challenge is that When things goes fast in terms of change, we may not even know How that task list will look tomorrow. Mhmm. So that's the the the the so the rate of change is going so East, And to keep where where we as individuals contribute with value will shift. So keeping on the same kind of of, approach of being being detailed with East is actually suboptimal Because we're not gearing up people with the right preconditions because we're actually stating something that is not really factual. Because the task necessary for tomorrow or next year will be different. But I think it's more about we need to maybe take 1 step I can talk about the capabilities that or that individuals needs to be able to do to be able to deliver value, and then value comes in.

Giovanni Leoni [:

Okay. What is what do you bring as a human to complement and to be an to be augmented by EQ, And then the tasks will shift as EQ capabilities changes over time. So for instance, let let's let if we take a few examples. So what what we've seen is that when really senior Coders are augmented with cogeneration. They can have a tremendously higher output Because they can both get the the fundamental work done while at the same time fine tune and identify where they see the challenges because they can see the nuances of how it works. Well, the same thing with someone that is creating text. They can have great output as a draft and then review and fine tune it To really have the right tone of voice and being able to wash away things that are a bit off, off tone or off track. And it's that kind of combination of being able to know the topic, know the context so well enough that when being augmented, with the use of technology, and and and AI or generative AI, then they can take it that to the next level with their confidence of the context.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Okay. That's I mean, it's what I I was almost, like, picturing, like, when you in the in the example of the senior coder, it's Like, the the senior coder gets an extra brain to work with. That's, like, you know, outside he he East 1 brain doing this, and then, you know, His or her brain, you know, of added provides added, quality, really. Going back to the thanks for those examples. Those those were they actually brought a lot to light for me. Going back to your point about, about the the the need for people to not be identified with tasks and and and to be ready to Adopt a new set of tasks really at any time or very quickly in quick time frames, that we don't, you know, we we don't know what those look like tomorrow. You need to be ready for that. So what are if you had to put words on the capabilities that are the human capabilities that are really valuable there that Organizations and individuals can start to develop now to be good in that context.

Luke Cavanagh [:

What what are those capabilities?

Giovanni Leoni [:

I I would say that it it there are some couple some things one can already start today.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah.

Giovanni Leoni [:

And one of them is It's to create a general understanding and awareness of how does this technology work. East it out yourself with EQ JPT. Read up on on on articles or looking up on podcasts, to be able to really get an understanding. Of, what are they talking about? What's beneath the surface of the buzzwords? And, specifically, what is happening in with their own line of business? Yes. Having a general understanding creates a an an kind of being able to navigate that space. I think that's one of the things.

Luke Cavanagh [:

And that's curiosity, not to interrupt you, but Yep. It's Curiosity. Right? And that's one of the that's one of the one of the positive change drivers. One of the key positive change drivers is curiosity. So approaching that stuff In a spirit of curiosity within ourselves is really important in my opinion.

Giovanni Leoni [:

Yeah. And it's also and I cannot to to kinda spin the the the theme of curiosity is that also being curious Of of your fellow coworkers.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Mhmm.

Giovanni Leoni [:

So outside of your role, outside of your specific unit, How does how do you connect with everyone else? Because I think as we're going forward, one of the key East East important Human capabilities you can bring to the table is to be able to understand the bigger picture, understanding how everything is connected, Being able to find a common language with your your fellow coworkers along a value chain or other cross functional units, Building up that human capability to connect with people, because that will be one of the key enablers to What where you can bring a lot of knowledge and help to to have an organization thrive, also to be able to understand your context, whatever that is in a certain business or a certain, kind of, A certain, area of operations, understanding that contextual use will be quite important. Also kind of spinning off on curiosity, but also, I would say kind of coming back to to the reframing of tasks It's also to understand that in the work that one is doing today, what could be automated And what is something that really caters for the human perspective and the human where the human perspective where the human action brings really tangible value. Because I think, being part of the process of understanding our wake up, I don't if one has a feeling that I don't want to do these administrative tasks, then most probably there's already an AI for that To take it away. So I I think it's more to also acknowledge that, okay, where do I bring value as a human? How can I maybe double down, on building skills within that? And in terms of the things that can be optimized, They will be optimized over time, so it's more to see, okay, how can one understand that so one also Start to gearing up and being ready for whenever that change happened.

Luke Cavanagh [:

I I'm gonna I'm gonna rewind a little bit too because you you make you make so many good points so quickly. It's like this is a it's almost like a a metaphor of how AI is gonna happen. So I have to keep jumping back to something you said, like, 2 points ago. But, when you talked about connection, The the idea of connecting with others in, you know, in your organization, you work in a larger organization or even smaller organization, that one hits. I wanna take that bit down a little bit of an EQ path as well because just as you're, you know, carrying the torch for the ethical use of AI in organizations, I I'm really coming alive to the idea that, I look at a lot of studies of, you know, the lack of engagement, the low levels of engagement that that So many people have with their work today. Gallup just had a big one that talked you know? And they they come out time after time, and you see, like, you know, only maybe 20 percent to usually 20% of people or 25% of people are, like, engaged and passionate about their work as you seem to be. That's a lot of people who are kinda just going through the motions and some are actively disengaged. I really, really believe that a big fundamental piece of that equation is about human connection.

Luke Cavanagh [:

I don't believe people in their work every day with their coworkers in their organizations Are experiencing and driving authentic connection with each other. And why that matters, you know, that's not really in anybody's business You don't really see that in anybody's business plan that our workplace needs to be a place of authentic connection. But within ourselves as people, We fundamentally need that in order to be happy and fulfilled. We have a an innate need and yearning to connect with other humans on a on a deeper level in order to have happiness real lasting happiness and fulfillment. And I think people are spending a lot of time at work and not getting that. So why why is it like you'd see connecting with other people as an opportunity to prepare yourself for the coming change of AI. That's, like, almost to me, I I I'm like, you know, what an opportunity, and I love that you see it that way. Do do you follow what I'm saying there?

Giovanni Leoni [:

Yeah. Yeah. And and I think this is backed up by by research that I've done both within enterprises like Google. How do you create, Like, really great teams or, with another digital, more kind of front runner organization. How do you deliver great products? And how where where it comes down to is that you need to have the diversity of thought. You need to have the diver like, an an, the an Psychologically safe environment Yes. To be able to connect it where it's actually with with it's seen as positive to connect with other people, that you're encouraged to find a common common language between the organizations, between the functions Because that the the reason why why is that important, can't we all just be super efficient and sequential? In in a Perfect machinery where everything is predicted and predictable, that works fine. But in a rate of change that is very high And the value an organization has is how well it works on a totality.

Giovanni Leoni [:

It is Critical for people cross functionally to understand each other.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah.

Giovanni Leoni [:

And I think here's kinda weird. The the piece is that we're seeing a paradigm shift that Because of the higher rate of change, we need to be able to understand that complete picture. We need to be able to connect East humans to see where can we improve processes. Like, for instance, if you in if you introduce an AI use of administrative processes in 1 piece of the business, But the other piece of the business keep on doing what they've always done, you will lose a complete impact of efficiency. Yeah. So it will be get East. But while if you combine, let's say, the the the, like, the the the the cross functional work where you they make use of technology. Everyone speaks the same language.

Giovanni Leoni [:

1 has that kind of a common, common purpose and ambition to drive change, then that leads also to sustainable change for the organization. At the same time, they can feel that they are part of a bigger picture. They feel that they can have more commitment East because they're contributing to a bigger total, but let us not let us also kind of to not kind of make this all Rosie, is that it is so hard. Yeah. It is so hard to connect with people that are maybe not speaking your same language, that do not have the same kind of framework as yourself, that may be initially don't have the same goals as yourself, that may not have not been collaborating with you over time that you may even have initially counterintuitive interest. And here, I think one needs to acknowledge that as one connect with people across organization, to drive through Sustainable change, that makes sense. It will take more effort than one can anticipate, to make it work. Because it's we're talking about people.

Giovanni Leoni [:

It's not just a plan that is mechanical to be executed.

Luke Cavanagh [:

No. It's not. And and that that's a just a perfect place for you to kinda land that thought because you talked about the manager who just kind of says, You know, can't we just be efficient? Can't can't we just, you know, pursue hyperefficiency with all our tasks and and go after that and make the machine work better? You know, Maybe managers don't speak like that, but how many how many leaders are are sort of oriented a little bit more toward that versus the idea of They think that's the whole answer and have no concept of the idea of creating psychological safety, holding space for people that we know have Totally different perspectives to try and integrate those EQ. You know? To holding space for people to be whole people, flaws and I'll be invited in, you know, to, to feel safe, whole to bring their whole self to work so that they can bring the magic that only humans can bring into this equation. You're I I think you're so right that that's really important, and you're also so right that, you know, not enough organizations are on the half of really embracing how to do that well because it does take lots of time, effort, and space.

Giovanni Leoni [:

Yeah. And I and I think here is is 1 one and I I don't think it's the I don't think it's really neither the it's neither it's not the really default of of of of Managers or or you see should that haven't been prepared for this. I think it's more to see that instead of seeing The human dimension as the drawback, the the challenge, the uncertainty, what is pulling Change management back. I think one East yes to rephrase it and understand that change will not come Without having humans being part of the process first, and then the mechanics of process and organization will follow. And I think it's about being able to understand, okay, in which order does this happen because I I think we're trying to make it's it's like We were we've had a change process, and then one have often seen, like, at first, we develop Develop a plan, execute a plan, and then we do a bit of change management. And and now when implementing advanced that will have fundamental different, like, impact on tasks. Then one can't really follow that line Spirit because The the part of human is so radically can be, EQ, such have the radical effects. You need to start with human, Pennington kind of the human ambitions, aligning where that future looks like, then embedding them in the process of change, with the plan and EQ of it.

Giovanni Leoni [:

And with that, you actually can have them on board also towards the end.

Luke Cavanagh [:

I love it. I I love I love the phrase start with human, because that's really important. So okay. So so final question in here before we kinda steer this steer the ship into port, which could be tricky here. I I know because I said you you said you're in the middle of a big storm there in Sweden right now. Right? So, but it doesn't seem like that in our conversation. You are you are the CEO of of any company, the largest company in the world right now. Now I'm talking to you the way I talk to chat East trying to get a good prompt.

Luke Cavanagh [:

But you're the CEO of of of whatever company you'd like to be the CEO of. A large organization has a huge impact on the world. You see the the coming AI change, and you wanna start with humans first. If you are addressing your entire workforce now, What is the mo the the the single most important thing for us as people to focus on in the next couple of years in order to get ourselves ready for transformation that we do together. What is that thing?

Giovanni Leoni [:

Without a doubt to really Put it front and center to say that the people on board today within the organization are the most valuable part of the organization. Technology will shift and change the organ how the organization delivers value in terms of product services, and and dividend. Like, it it will be, that will change, but the most critical part to make that successful are the people. And also to be able to state that it's through the engagement of people, Having them part of the change process of contributing to how to become modern and relevant at any given time will be how that success will materialize, that they will be a part of shaping how that looks like, and that entail that as of a precondition to bring their knowledge along the journey, but also to see that it will be a continuous change process going forward, which will take energy, but it will be the only way for the organization to stay relevant. Without the change, The organization will not be relevant and will not be able to sustain and deliver value over time. Yes. That that's the East. So being really EQ with a truthful realization that this will be hard, but that a key success factor It's the people on board, and I think that will leave people with us an under like a sensation that I could be a part of the solution.

Giovanni Leoni [:

I can contribute with my value. And, also, for those individual, we need to be also honest about this. Those that do not want change, They do not want to change their East. They'll move elsewhere. And I think we one needs to be quite truthful about that that some people do not want to onboard on this kind of Shane journey, and I think it's being that honest from day 1 helps a lot for the organization because then they can onboard People that would want to contribute to that kind of journey.

Luke Cavanagh [:

So I want to work for the CEO who says to his organization or his or her organization, you know, people you people who work for us, you are the most important part of this change. I wanna work for the CEO who says that to their people and then and then goes out and actually, treats their people that way as well and invests in in them and invests in their their whole person learning and invests and understands, you know, the the emotional experience that they will go through. As you say, you you you boil it down to the word hard. It's going to be hard because, you know, to a large degree, it's going to be emotionally difficult for people at times. And that's okay. As long as your eyes open about it and accepting of that reality and not sort of fighting against it or leaving people alone in that reality, and I think to me, that's a that's a big that's a big piece of the equation. And, yeah. So, Giovanni, thank you so much for your time and your confidence today.

Luke Cavanagh [:

I could I could go on, you know, in this conversation for hours. I didn't even get to 20% of the questions that I had. So I think maybe we we take this forward, at another time. Again, Credo AI, head of business development. Any final words from you, Giovanni?

Giovanni Leoni [:

No. I I I East I would like to thank you, Luke, for a great Conversation. I think these are the kind of thing that you gotta kinda keep on talking for hours, and I think it's it's I think it's critically important The what your race what you have also raised, that's questions today. Is that how do we look upon the changes we have ahead of us, both Organizations generally, but also with impact of advanced EQ AI and see how how do we see that as a Core element of success and how we can actively and consciously cater for that, both the The challenges that comes with it, but also where where a a core piece of, core piece of how this is successful Will be how we have this top of mind from from, from the start.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah.

Giovanni Leoni [:

So I'm I'm just really really happy to be able to talk about these Important topics, and then East to continue the conversation at at a later stage.

Luke Cavanagh [:

Yeah. And I'm happy that you're doing the work you're doing. Please keep Keep keep carrying that people torch, through this through this, technological revolution, and I'll be right behind you. Thanks for joining us, Giovanni.

Giovanni Leoni [:

Thank you.

Luke Cavanagh [:

See you next time, everybody.

Links

More Episodes
115. Exploring Ethical AI Use with Credo AI's Giovanni Leoni
00:54:46
114. Navigating Change
00:31:52
113. Emotions and Decision-Making with Art Markman
00:47:46
112. Lessons, Insights, and Looking Forward
00:54:28
111. Optimism, Culture and Generations with Zara Shirazi
00:54:26
110. Ted Lasso, Baseball and EQ with Luke Cavanagh
00:55:18
109. How to Fix the Healthcare System with Dr. Mickey Liebowitz
00:47:23
108. Own Your History
00:38:27
107. The Old Self and The New Self with Jim Vaive
00:59:45
106. The New Workplace Environment with Global HR Executive Robert Brezosky
00:57:53
105. The Importance of Leadership with Shannon Lee
01:06:21
104. The Current State of DEI with Toya Spencer
01:14:52
103. Not My Monkeys
00:44:29
102. Unleashing the Artist Within: A Conversation with Heather Hanson
00:46:04
101. EQ and Workplace Engagement with Josh Freedman, CEO of Six Seconds
00:51:32
100. Episode 100 - Not Your Typical Celebration Episode
00:55:07
99. Becoming A Calming Influence
00:38:40
98. The Magic of Preparation
00:28:18
97. Understanding Core Beliefs and Mental Health with Anita Ritchey
00:39:38
96. Spirit of EQ and Spiritual Intelligence with Lynette and Jim Vaive
00:35:29
95. The Value Of Your Inner Voice
00:26:20
94. Staying In The Moment
00:41:03
93. The Curated Life with Timmy McCarthy of Cocoon Investments, Part 2
00:57:25
92. Core Beliefs
00:38:17
91. Ode To Success And Joy
00:35:57
90. Courageous Creativity with Lee Ann Lander
01:09:45
89. What We Discovered That Will Make 2023 a Great Year
00:34:09
88. 2022 Retrospect, The Best of Spirit of EQ (so far)
00:41:03
87. Help Through The Holidays
00:25:19
86. The Journey of Grief with Jess Laughlin
01:04:56
85. Spiritual and Emotional Awareness
00:34:27
84. Laughter is The Best Medicine
00:44:33
83. Mental Health and EQ In The Workplace
00:37:39
82. The Curated Life with Timmy McCarthy, Cocoon Investments
01:04:31
81. Let Your EQ Flow
00:41:03
80. The Idea Of Stories
00:47:00
79. Belonging and EQ at Work with Tina Schweiger and Michelle Stinson Ross of Mindful Appy
01:19:56
78. The Waters of Change with Luke Cavanagh of IKEA
01:04:13
77. The Importance Of Optimism
00:37:40
76. Giving Up Stuff
00:41:31
75. Fear And Anger
00:48:44
74. Keeping It Simply Simple
00:48:12
73. Everything You Wanted To Know About EQ (But Were Afraid To Ask) - Pt. 2
00:40:28
72. Relentless Leadership with Perry Maughmer
00:59:03
71. EQ And Personality
00:44:11
70. Living Your Noble Goal In Trying Times
00:44:08
69. The Authentic Version of You
00:41:21
68. Harnessing Your EQ Horsepower
00:36:47
67. Corporate Wellness and Music with Quincy Williams
01:13:04
66. Creativity and the Noble Goal with Lee Ann Lander
00:59:54
65. EQ Conversations with Dr. Ajené Wilcoxson
01:15:24
64. 2021 Retrospect, The Best of Spirit of EQ (so far)
00:27:46
63. Supporting Those Dealing With Stress and Anxiety
00:45:26
62. The Connection Between Physical Exercise and Emotional Health with Quincy Williams
01:18:51
61. EQ Conversations with Kelli Schweitzer
00:59:21
60. Spiritual Emotional Intelligence
00:49:52
59. EQ Conversations with Artist, Singer and Songwriter Hannah Bowers
00:52:59
58. Dealing With The Unknown
00:39:19
57. Anxiety and Emotional Intelligence
00:45:22
56. I'm Emotionally Intelligent. Why Isn't Everyone Else?
00:39:40
55. Special Guest Bill O'Herron
00:59:53
54. Special Guest John O’Hagan and his Journey From Musician to Entrepreneur
01:09:22
53. Everything You Wanted To Know About EQ (But Were Afraid To Ask)
00:54:23
52. Revisiting Emotional Intelligence
00:30:46
51. Building Resources
00:46:23
50. EQ and Parenting Through a Child’s Chronic Health Condition with Special Guest Aleasa Word
00:52:17
49. DEI, Emotional Intelligence and the Road Ahead with Special Guest Toya Spencer
01:08:56
48. EQ, Exercise and Nutrition
00:55:06
47. Forgiveness
00:38:34
46. Kevin Dwinnell, VP Product Strategy and Commercialization at Taivara
00:58:51
45. Circumstances
00:43:26
44. The Art of Active Listening
00:46:46
43. Too Quick To Judgement
00:45:01
42. Lee Ann Lander, Owner, Lee Ann Lander Art and Creative Consulting
00:52:52
41. Candice Thomas-Maddox, PhD, Professor of Communication Studies, Ohio University
00:53:32
40. Helping Others Find Value In Themselves
00:46:04
39. Special Guest Kevin Saunders, Founder, KS4Inspiration
01:02:04
38. Special Guest Andy Frank
00:34:13
37. Outside Looking In
00:33:46
36. Under Pressure Pt 2
00:34:17
35. Under Pressure Pt 1
01:03:04
34. Working on You
00:37:34
33. The Future of Work with Special Guest Holly Custard, PhD
01:02:39
32. The Problem and Opportunity of Bias
00:36:49
31. D-1 College Athlete, Life Lessons and EQ with Special Guest Dan DeLucia
00:58:36
30. Jeremy Jensen, Dubuque Police Department
00:50:45
29. Focus On Your EQ
00:31:11
28. Motorcycles, Neil Peart and Emotional Intelligence
00:35:01
27. How EQ Can Change Your Life
00:41:42
26. What’s Wrong With Leadership Development
00:49:00
25. What Women Entrepreneurs Want You To Know
00:44:54
24. Leadership and The Art of Leading a Motorcycle Group Ride
00:29:29
23. Generational EQ
00:41:20
22. Success and Emotional Intelligence
00:35:28
21. Refining Your Noble Goal
00:27:20
20. Managing Relationships
00:22:13
19. The Myth Of Winning
00:21:12
18. Fear
00:32:25
17. Being Self-Aware
00:29:16
16. The Myth Of Perfection
00:25:19
15. Better Decision Making
00:28:55
14. Spiritual Emotional Intelligence
00:26:39
13. Learning Philosophies
00:32:14
12. How To Cope With Feelings Of Failure
00:27:12
11. How Well Do You Know Yourself
00:24:30
10. The Noble Goal
00:22:55
9. A Business Case Study in EQ
00:22:31
8. Pursuing Noble Goals
00:18:01
7. Increasing Empathy
00:18:58
6. Engaging Intrinsic Motivation
00:18:45
5. Exercising Optimism
00:28:35
4. Navigating Emotions
00:26:52
3. Applying Consequential Thinking
00:22:39
2. Recognizing Patterns
00:20:03
1. Enhancing Emotional Literacy
00:20:58
trailer Welcome To The Spirit of EQ Podcast
00:17:12