What interests or passions would you pursue if you incorporated frequent sabbaticals into your lifestyle?

We talk about the transformative power of sabbaticals and self-discovery with our special guest, Lyndall Farley, a sabbatical coach who has taken an impressive 11 sabbaticals herself. This episode explores strategic approaches to taking time off work, the importance of planning ahead, and the essential role of support networks.

What are the impacts of the pandemic on personal reflection, the increasing adoption of sabbaticals in the corporate world, and the benefits of disconnecting from the constant demands of work? Lyndall shares insightful stories, including how sabbaticals can aid in transitioning to retirement, improve work-life balance, and provide clarity in one’s career and personal life.

Whether you're considering a short break or a longer sabbatical, or just curious about how to find purpose beyond professional achievements, this episode is packed with valuable insights. Tune in as we uncover how stepping away from the 'hamster wheel' can rejuvenate not only your career but your entire outlook on life.

Key Moments

00:00 Exploring role of a sabbatical coach.

04:31 Reflecting post-pandemic: career breaks and life priorities.

09:57 Successful but burnt-out professional seeking sabbatical.

13:09 Life design clarified career and work-life balance.

16:12 Decompression fosters recovery and self-rediscovery.

20:30 Prepare family, business, build connections for future.

22:40 Unexpected life events require immediate adaptation.

26:08 Entrepreneur seeks validation through business success.

29:15 Corporate career lacks enduring personal connections.

35:02 Optimal EQ work requires undistracted focus, ideally sabbatical.

37:28 Discuss burnout costs, prevention, and sabbaticals.

42:04 Sabbaticals retain employees, delaying natural exit points.

43:13 Successful family member fears mindless work burnout.

48:38 Traveling to foster kids' empathy and growth.

52:15 Prioritize a break over hiring a coach.

54:30 Prefer workforce with periodic, strategic recharge breaks.

Lyndall Farley

Sabbatical Coach and Consultant

www.beyondabreak.com – Coaching and Consulting

www.gobreakspace.com – Community 

Lyndall Farley is an experienced Sabbatical Coach and Consultant passionate about the transformative benefits of extended breaks from work. Through her private coaching practice and membership community - BreakSpace, she guides people to intentionally design a break then helps them recharge and reimagine their next chapter in life and work.

 Lyndall also works with companies setting up sabbatical programs to boost employee wellbeing and retention by providing consulting, workshops, sabbatical toolkits and employee coaching. 

 Lyndall is a true believer in the power of sabbaticals. She has taken 11 sabbaticals (solo and with her family) and has now guided hundreds of people on their sabbatical journeys. 

Since the beginning of her career, Lyndall was using sabbaticals to step back, recharge and reflect, so that she could return and leap forward with her next big challenge. She spent 10+ years working for a global consulting firm specialising in Organisational Change Management before training as a coach and launching her business. In 2024 she was awarded a MSc. in Psychology and Neuroscience from King’s College London and combines all this knowledge and experience into her coaching approach.

Lyndall is Australian and has travelled to over 70 countries on all 7 continents. She's lived in the Sydney, America, London and now lives in Amsterdam with her husband and daughter.

We hope you enjoy the podcast. Hopefully, you're tuning in on a regular basis. We'd love it if you would give us a great review on whatever platform you're listening to the podcast. It's so appreciative and helps us as we try to get more exposure for the work we do and the episodes that we publish. We're grateful to you as a listener. Secondly, our content is for educational purposes only. It's not intended by any stretch to diagnose or treat anything that may be occurring in your life or anyone else's life that you may be connected to through the podcast. And as always, we look forward to the next time that we're together. Take care.

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/

Spirit of EQ

Mentioned in this episode:

SEQ Development Report

The SEQ Development Report is an innovative tool that combines emotional intelligence with one's spiritual life, distinct from religious contexts. The report helps individuals understand their connections with themselves, others, and their surroundings. It aims to identify areas in their lives that may need improvement and highlight their strengths, ultimately facilitating better navigation through life. To obtain the report, individuals need to contact Spirit of EQ via email at info@spiritofeq.com and complete an online assessment that takes about 15 to 20 minutes. After the assessment, a debrief session is required to review the comprehensive information provided in the report. Spirit of EQ also offers further coaching to support individuals in their personal development journey.

Thanks for listening to Spirit of EQ

This podcast was created to be a tool to primarily help you to discover and grow your EQ. Science and our own lived experiences confirm that the better we are at managing our emotions, the better we're going to be at making decisions. Which leads to a better life. And that's something we all want. We're glad that you've taken the time today to listen. We hope that something you hear will lead to a breakthrough. We'd really appreciate a review on your podcast platform. Please leave some comments about what you heard today, as well as follow and subscribe to the podcast. That way, you won't miss a single episode as we continue this journey.

Lyndall Farley, welcome to the podcast.

I'm so happy to be here.

I am too. And one of the things that I've thought about prior to, us recording today was our conversations back about a month ago. And for our audience, I will just tell everyone out there that Lyndall caught my attention, it's almost been 2 years ago, with this idea of being a sabbatical coach. Being that I kind of strive on the unique, I've started thinking to myself, oh my gosh, a sabbatical coach. That's interesting. And I may have it wrong, Lyndall. I I don't know if you reached out to me or I reached out to you, but either way, I wanted to learn more, and I can't I'm I'm super excited that you're here to tell our audience a bit about your work and what it's all, involved. So can we start with could you tell our audience what is sabbatical, and how do you reference it? How do you use it? What what is it all about?

Yeah. And that's at such a great place to start. Thank you so much for starting there, Eric, because there's a lot of confusion around this term sabbatical, and there's lots of different words flying around, particularly now as they're becoming more popular. But the sort of generally accepted definition of a sabbatical is that it is an extended break from work for the intention of pursuing other interests. Right? So let's break that down. So an extended break from work that's, you know, longer than vacation. Right. So typically a few months it can be, you know, up to a year.

You know, we're talking a really long break away from work, but then we're also talking about the fact that it's an intentional time where you get to pursue other interests And that sets it apart from, you know, career breaks or other reasons that people are out of the workforce, like raising a family or, for a health reason. Right? Because it's around you having the intention to pursue other activities, but also that you have the control and the ability to go and and pursue those activities. Right? So it really, brings a sabbatical back to the length of time, so it's a long time away from work. And it's intentional break where you get to do what you want. All your dreams can come true.

I've heard that before. Yeah. That's awesome. So when you describe this a long time, is there a typical time frame for a sabbatical, or can it be just depending on the person, the situation, and all of that?

Yeah. There's a lot of, differences in in the length of time that people take. And I think there's another nuance here as well is around whether it is company supported or not supported by your company. So if, you know, some very lucky people and increasingly so, their companies offer a sabbatical and that this might be paid in like for super lucky people. For most cases it's unpaid, right? And so if it's a company supported sabbatical, they do tend to be shorter in duration. So 1 to 3 months, sometimes 6 months, right? And then there is a sabbatical that's not supported by a company that you just decide to resign, take a break from work altogether, and then it's completely up to you as to how long that's about to go.

Okay. That's that's interesting. And I'm I'm kinda looking at it through the lens of 2024. So there's a lot of variance in what you said there, but maybe if you could, considering 2024, not not and, you know, in the United States, it's an election year, and I don't mean it that way. I mean, just in current day form. Can you maybe share with the audience what what may be a an example of what a sabbatical might be? What would be something or if you could describe a story of someone that maybe you've worked with who took one just maybe as a as a real life story?

Yeah. So, I'll I'd love to tell the story piece. Let's do that. But first, I think there's a really important context around how you what you were talking about with it being in 2024, so, like, today. Right? And there's there's sort of a a past and a now kind of narrative on this. And the past is really before the pandemic and the now is sort of after the pandemic. So, we know that, you know, the pandemic had a huge impact on people, but we had sort of that collective moment to go, what am I doing? And really kind of reset and kind of reflect and go, okay, what is it that I wanna be doing next? Right? And how do I really wanna live my life, and what's important to me, right? So, at the same time, we've also had over the years increasing burnout, you've got post the pandemic, we had the, the phenomena of, you know, the great resignation, and then there was quitting and there's so there's all of these kinds of, factors that are leading into people wanting to now take a break from work. Right? And so whether that's, you know, a a career break, a sabbatical, whatever, a golden gap year, a mini retirement, whatever you wanna call it.

Mhmm. People are taking these breaks now more after the pandemic than they did before. Right? Before. Yeah. There's been a massive uptick in people taking sabbaticals, and, actually, also, there's been a 61% increase in the number of companies offering a sabbatical since the global pandemic. So it's just it's just a trend that is sort of, you know, coming to to pass now. It's really kind of stepping into its own. And that is because people sort of woke up and decided that they wanted to do something different, but also that they're on the path to burnout and, you know, they really needed to make some changes and that involved taking a step back, taking a break, reflecting, and then reimagining their next, step in the month.

What's interesting, Blondolloy, as you've mentioned that, and I just got to thinking, and what I'm about to say, I don't wanna minimize the impact of the pandemic because it was big. I mean, across many fronts. However, I'm I'm the kind of person that I try to find something positive, something that is redeeming even in something that's really bad. Right? Could it be that maybe the pandemic helped sort of birth a more accepting approach to this?

A 100%. I think it was a a huge silver lining of the coronavirus and the pandemic, was that it, just gave us this collective moment to stop and rethink and just reflect on what's important. There's nothing like being confronted with mortality to make people think about where they're going and just get off that hamster wheel for a moment. You know?

Yeah. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I think that was a huge silver lining. I I actually I have no data to support this, Eric, but I actually think that it, brought the concept of sabbaticals further forward or accelerated their adoption by about 5 years, 5 to 10 years. I think it really sped I think we would have got there anyway. I don't think it's because of the coronavirus, but I really think it gave us an accelerator towards the acceptance of sabbaticals.

That's that's such a great insight, because I think a lot of things, and I've I've heard that kind of statement in regards to other subjects that it was already on its way, but the pandemic, as you put it, accelerated the adoption. Right?

Yeah.

And again, you know, it's kind of that it's the two sided coin. On one hand, it was a global pandemic. But on the other hand, I mean, yeah, if you told me sabbaticals are gonna be a more acceptable, more accepted norm, I'd say that's a good thing. Without a doubt. So, what if somebody said, okay. So if I do this sabbatical thing, Lyndall, what are some of the benefits that come to me by doing that? And I know there's the obvious ones. You get time to reflect to determine what you wanna do next, but are there other benefits to a sabbatical?

Yeah. Well, how how about I answer that by also answering your, prompt around the the story. Right? So I'll Yeah. I'll answer that in real life story form.

Perfect.

So let's take, one of my clients. Right? My clients are confidential, so

you know No, understood, no doubt. Identifying

features. But he was a guy who was in the middle of his career, had absolutely reached a lot of success in his career, had gone and done the Ivy League, MBA, and he was really successful, but at the same time kind of floundering, just not really sure what he wanted to do anymore. He certainly was not, not happy, not thriving at all in work. Right? Right. And, came to me, was very, yeah, I guess burnt out, a bit depressed, and a bit lost. And we, you know, we crafted some sabbatical plan for him that felt like it was, you know, structured or had enough structure in it, but then also enough, time to sort of just have the freedom and flexibility to follow opportunity and take advantage of serendipity. Right?

Right. Right.

And he didn't have any big plans to travel the world or or do anything like that. He really just wanted to you know, lean into exploring concepts like philosophy and language and things things like that. Right? At the same time, he and his wife were considering starting a family. Right? And he also was kind of confronting, well, what's this gonna mean for the next chapter of my life? I'm ready to become a dad. You know? Like, lots of those kinds of things were coming up too. And so he took a sabbatical, and it was sort of like this gentle unfolding, a lot of kind of unfolding of that workplace stress, a lot of self acceptance for who he was and who he was becoming. Also, a building backup of confidence, and also a chance to connect with his family. And so the first part of the sabbatical was really what I call decompression, really kinda getting off, first of all, getting off the hamster wheel.

Right, right.

Having the time to just sort of go, and just sort of return to self, just to a grounded, calm, confident sense of self.

Right.

And then from there he was out doing amazing things. I'm trying to remember. I think he really got into pickleball. Yeah. I think he really got into pickleball.

Oh,

no. It was, what's that Frisbee game, but you do it like over

Oh. You know what you say that, Lyndall. I know what you're talking about. I can't remember the name of it.

It was that thing. I hadn't ever heard of it, but, yeah, it was whatever that thing is called. Yeah. And, got really into that. But we also went through, like, because he had the time and the and the confidence and the energy back, we started going through a life design process where we were kind of designing for him what does the next chapter look like for you, you know? What's it gonna be like to be a dad? You know? And, and then importantly, like, towards the end of the sabbatical when he really started to feel ready to return to work, he was, you know, looking for a new job, but he had while we did the life design work, he got super clear on what was important to him, and what was important was like balance and having boundaries with work, right? So initially he was like, oh, maybe I need to completely throw my career out the window if something's completely different. But through that gentle unfolding in the sabbatical, he realized, actually no, I really like this career. There's nothing wrong with the careers, just the way I was working in the company I was working in. So if I can find another role in a more positive environment and, you know, I can have better relationship with work myself, then I'm happy to I want to keep pursuing this career.

And that and he that's what he found. I mean, like, literally, the first,

I

think it was the 1st job he interviewed for, and he he got the role and it was a company. It was almost like he was interviewing the company as well, right, because he knew what his boundaries were and he knew what he wanted in the role, and he, he was able to really craft that for himself. And he's still at that company, and he became a dad.

Oh, wow. And a happy part ending. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, if if I had to pick out anything from that story that I could lay out as a benefit, when you mentioned about him interviewing the company, that comes when that self knowledge level has really been discovered and is high. Right? Because you're no longer on the end of and I'm just using my language and my description. You're not the beggar just hoping that somebody will choose you. You're you're an equal.

You you you're able to look at it through that lens. And there's so many people, Lyndal, who don't understand that they have that power. And I'm I'm being gentle and grace giving to them that in the end, they may not know that they have it. And boom, another benefit of a sabbatical, the ability to kinda look at things in a different way to discover you again. Right?

Yeah. Absolutely. So, I mean, if we if we if we sort of mine that story for all of its benefits, right, at the very beginning, there is there's permission giving around, I need to stop, I need to recharge, I need to do something different. Right? And then there's that really psychological and physical recovery, you know, and that doesn't like, you go through that decompression period regardless of whether you're burnt out. It will just take longer if you're burnt out, but everybody has to transition their pace from the frenetic pace of working life as we live it today down to that more healthy sabbatical kind of pace. Right? And that's a unique pace for that individual. Right? But so, you know, the benefit of just going through that decompression is a huge benefit, right? And then that returning to self, like I call it this benefit of like finding my mojo again. I mean, how many people out there feel like they're just kind of like a robot on autopilot now, and they're like, we're not really very connected to who we are and what we want sometimes.

It's so easy to lose connection to that. So, you know, sabbatical gig can get you connected again to that. And then it's this huge opportunity to figure out what's next. You know? So

Yeah. And, you know, as I'm thinking as you're saying that, and and I do wanna touch on it, during our time together about, you know, that there's more than one type of sabbatical. Right? There there's not always has to be this big chunk of time. But before I go there, I'm thinking of that audience member who might be saying, well, Linda, Lyndall, hey, that guy is an Ivy League educated captain of industry, makes lots of money, and he can afford to do that. I'm just an analyst for a large bank. I I they won't do that for me, and I don't have that kind of money. I can't so maybe that's the segue into what do you say to those folks, right, who maybe legitimately are in that place. Right? Are there other ways of getting to this sabbatical and getting to those benefits?

Yeah. I think, there's absolutely an acknowledgment here that taking a sabbatical is a privilege. There is a large portion of the economy who are living paycheck to paycheck or below the poverty line, you know, where, you know, this this this privilege is not available to them. Right? Right. Having said that, there is also a large portion of the economy who think that it is not available to them. But if they think a little bit strategically about it, it absolutely can be, right? So let's talk to those people right now.

Yes, absolutely.

Because now we've segmented a little bit. So, I think to those people, it's really about being a bit strategic in how and when you do it, but also planning it ahead of time, right? So, maybe you're not gonna take off a year, right, but maybe you can take off 3 months, right? So, this is the kind of, I don't know, thought experiment, challenge I like to give people, right? If I told you, and we'll just pretend you're one of these people, Eric.

Alright, okay, I like it.

If I told you, Eric, that 2 years from now you have to take 3 months off work, Your life actually depends on it. Like you have to work out a way to take 3 months off work, but you've got 2 years to prepare for that. What would you do?

Very interesting. And as I'm thinking about it, I would begin to well, first, I would talk to my family, and I would say, this is coming. It's not tomorrow, but we need to start thinking differently for the purposes of that. Then I probably would move to business stakeholders, partners, and to let them know that we need to start developing a plan of what and how we're gonna handle x, y, and z because coming in 2 years, I'm going to, as you just said, because my life depends on it. And this would also, Lyndal, it's an advertisement about why it's so important to build strong connections and relationships. Right? Kind of off, but but it's really connected because those support networks are the ones that are going to help. Because I think in my mind, and I'm guilty of doing it, I'm getting better, right, of just going, oh, well, Lyndall, that's not about a problem. I'll be ready, and I'm ready to go.

And when it happens, I'm there, and I'm gonna be committed, and I'm I've got all these things in my head that tell me I'm ready. But the reality is life will deliver surprises. Yeah. Life will deliver, you know, fill in the blank. And I guess that support network is where I would go to begin the preparation for that. That that would be my that's a long winded way around to what you asked.

Yeah. And that and that is such a great, way of answering it. Right? So first, the first response that you had is, well, let's think beyond just me. Let's let's, you know, use the support that's around me. So that's a fantastic strategy. Right? And, you know, people listening to this can use a similar strategy. Everybody has people that can support them. Right?

And by the way, Lyndal, I have scars to show for doing it a different way, which is

Yes.

I'm gonna do this and get out of my way. Yes. You can't tell me.

Yeah. So the scary thing is that whilst I gave you a, you know, your life depends on it kind of, you know, scenario, This can happen to anyone at any time. I mean, you know, all you have to have is something unexpected happen in life, a health scare, you know, whatever it might be, and you have to take 3 months off work. Right? And but the difference is here, you get hit by a bus, you got no warning, no preparation and you just have to make it work, right? The difference with the sabbatical is you've got 2 years, 3 years, 5 years to prepare, right? So in the same way that you've got to trust yourself to know that you would make your way through if you were hit with something that was unfortunate in life, you can trust yourself that if you put the right, and here's the kicker word, priority on taking a sabbatical 2 years in the future, that you can also make that happen.

Yeah. And one of the things that I think about, Lyndal, is this idea of, okay, I want something different, and I'm gonna go back to the pandemic and just from a personal perspective. It made me look around. It made me question. It made me I asked questions like, is this really the way I wanna live? Is it and I'm almost thinking, I would say to that person out there in the audience is, not asking you to go to the the loss that maybe you experienced or the negative outcomes and all that stuff, but just go to the positive of what was your mindset like? What did you reflect on? What did you question? And maybe use that mindset to help propel you toward a sabbatical. Right? Yeah. I almost think as we're talking, you know, Lyndal, it's not a question of if we should take a sabbatical goal. It's a question of when.

And you know what I mean?

Yes. Yes. I a 100% fully agree. I mean, come on Eric, I've taken 11. I told you.

Oh, wow. Yeah.

But, I mean, for me, it's a way of life now because that's something that I realised quite early in my career, or as an adult that I wanted to take these, I didn't wanna just work my whole life, I wanted to go out and live a big life, and that involved doing things outside of work. You know, volunteering, traveling, being an entrepreneur, all of these different things that I've had as big goals and bucket list items for myself needed time away from work, right? So

Yeah. Do you think in some ways, and I guess as I think about it, then maybe we've allowed work to occupy more of our souls than we should.

Oh, a 100%. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I feel like I'm battling that on a daily basis. You know, the the fact that work has completely overtaken our life as, you know, the purpose of life is not to work and yet we act like it is.

Yeah. And and you know what's interesting when you say that? And I might have said this to you when we talked a month ago, I I have someone, he's an entrepreneur. I'm I'm trying to get him on the show, but he's so it's like I got I got to find a way to just, like, maybe kidnap him for an hour, but his story is so powerful. And and I think this is the, maybe the worst kept secret inside of and I'll speak about the United States. He was on fire to start this company and he did, and it became what we would maybe identify as being very successful. And then he found that he was bored, he found himself disillusioned, and Lindell, he said to me, it's because I thought that this work would validate me. That's what he was searching for, was validation. Yeah.

The reality of it, and he readily opened up about this, is that it did not validate at all, and it kinda made me realize that the pursuit of this was really kind of a, how did he put it? He might have said some things to the effect, and I'm trying to remember, it it was like almost a meaningless pursuit. He didn't, like, say, well, I, you know, I'm gonna sell my company and I'm gonna go live on an island and I'm not gonna do work. He didn't go to the extremes, but he redefined, he realigned himself or finding validation where it belongs. And and it's not the fault of the work. It's not the fault of the corporation. It's it's really kind of I mean, I don't wanna get too deep in the psychological, but it lies within us.

Yeah. And I think there's a really big and important distinction that, it's important to do and find purposeful work. Right? Yeah. But working is not the purpose of your life. Right? And so

Well said.

Niched with purpose within purpose. Right? There's gotta be something bigger than work that is going to be filling up your purpose bucket. And most no. Not. Okay. A lot of people find that in family and in relationships and a sense of community or belonging. People find it in spirituality. People find it in, you know, altruistic kinds of, virtuous, you know, things that they're doing.

But, you know, it's the old saying that your job's not gonna be there on your deathbed. Who's gonna be there holding your hand? Not your job.

Well, it's interesting. I think back to my corporate career and when I was in the midst of it, I I mean, I had numbers of people around me smiling, applauding, you know, all of the above. And and and I say that to say also they they were in well intentioned, but the revelation that came when, I was kicked out for the last time, I I probably didn't hear more than 2 people who, like, continually, consistently reached out to me. You know, just the, how are you doing? How are things going? I mean, when when you realize that, again, it's not an indictment of the company, it's not an indictment of the people that I worked with. Yeah. It's just that place, that thing cannot hold the weight of your soul. So maybe the pivot is stop giving that much of your soul to it.

Yeah. And I think there is also a lack of security and certainty in the in the employment relationship these days that has also accelerated since, you know, 19 fifties and you had a job for life kind of thing. But now people feel and are more disposable, you know? And I think people are realizing how replaceable they are, and, you know, how insecure the actual employee employer relationship sort of is. You know?

Oh, and and, Lyndal, you're so on the money. I because my story of it was unrequited love. It was it was that thing of, like, I thought you wanted to marry me. I thought you wanted to spend the rest of your life with me. I thought that I was the only one, and I I was irreplaceable. And the reality was, no. That's not how we felt about you. That's not and again, I wanna say this, it was one of the best things that could have ever happened to me because it it opened my eyes that, like, Eric, you're not supposed to put that much weight on their shoulders.

It's it's not theirs to carry. You know? But anyway, I'm I'm I I yeah. So Go ahead.

All of this to say that, people realizing this, and they're they're realizing this, sort of as they get to the middle of their career, actually. Right? But it's been accelerated by all of the kind of triggers and factors we've been talking about. But at the same time, this is why people want to take a step back and go, well, hang on, I think I've been ploughing way too much time and energy and too much of myself into this unrequited love. I think I need to take myself back again, you know?

Mhmm, yeah.

The one thing I have to say is, you know, there's lots of different ways that people might go about doing that, right? I am not at all saying a sabbatical is the only way. But what I'm saying is I have always just found it really hard to decompress, come back to myself, and extricate myself from the environment that has been having having me sort of wound up, to unwind myself from that environment whilst still in the environment, to me, seems impossible. I mean, I've never been able to do that. And so I have to step out of the environment, a k a sabbatical, to be able to then look at the environment and go, that seemed pretty unhealthy. I definitely needed to leave that. Right.

And do you find, Lyndal, it and I I my gut says that you probably have experienced this with a client or 2, where the fear of the unknown is greater than that fear or anxiety of be staying where they're at.

Yes. You know

what I mean?

I absolutely do, and I experience this all the time with clients and I've experienced it myself in my own sabbatical.

There's

a tipping point and I see it, you almost see it in a client's eyes. You can almost see it, the moment it occurs and that is when the fear of staying put becomes more than the fear of uncertainty. So, like, the uncertainty stepping into uncertainty and the unknown becomes the lesser evil of just staying doing what they're doing because they can see that this path that they're on is leading down a really dark track. And sadly, the fear of just going on down that dark path becomes greater than the fear of stepping off the path. And that is the tipping point of the shift where taking the sabbatical becomes less scary than not taking it.

Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, there's something to this idea of of being able to give yourself the margin to be able to step away. Right? Because in our world and the work that we do, you know, we've kind of taken the approach of we'll meet you where you're at to help you with this thing called emotional intelligence. However, I typically will always give a bit of that sort of the disclaimer, the the warning label. The most optimal way to build a practice around EQ is in a place where you are not being pulled in multiple directions at the same time, on and on and on. And ideally, you know, Brendon, I haven't said this to you, but ideally, it's people who are in sabbatical that would get the most out of emotional intelligence work. And it maybe makes total sense, right? It's kinda like, well, I'm not pressed.

I can actually focus on me and focus on learning, focus on on and on. So it's almost I say it this way because I will work with you wherever you're at. But you need to understand, you know, you have to kind of that strategy again. You know, me coming and doing a 2 hour workshop is not as effective as me coming alongside of you for a year. And I get it. Some people can't afford a year. Some people can only afford a public workshop that has been, you know, designed with sort of high level, you know, content. I think, and I'm I'm heading toward this idea about the employer, it's so it's so encouraging to hear that there is more of an adoption of this, because from an economic standpoint, to you said what you said earlier, and I agree.

Not everyone has the means and the wherewithal to do what maybe your example of the client, was able to do. So, Lyndal, if you were talking, and I'm sure in our audience we have some owners and CEOs and all that good stuff, what would you say is the benefit for their company? If they're out there going, Okay, great. I'm glad that Eric has discovered Eric again, but what's in it for us, the company?

Yeah. And that's a that's a really important discussion that company leaders need to have. Right? Right. So first of all, us I think a company need leader needs to ask themselves, what is the cost of burnout? Right? So if somebody has to go on medical leave or, if somebody is like abruptly leaving the the company. What is the disruption and the cost of that to the I mean, it's it's a lot. Right? The number is obviously gonna change, but it's incredibly disruptive, and, it's it's absolutely not an optimal way of running a business. Right? So, again, back to the, what would you do if I gave you 2 years and you had to take 3 months off kind of analogy, it's the same thing. What would you prefer? Would you prefer to just work your employees to the point of burnout and then they abruptly leave? Or do you want to recognize burnout and put in preventative programs like a sabbatical program that allows you to, allow them to return to the workforce recharged and healthy with a good outlook.

Right? So, there's the well-being kind of burnout angle. Yeah. One of the companies that I work with, because I also consult to companies on how to build, and amplify sabbatical programs. They're working with an aging workforce who are close to retirement, right? And the people who are around retirement age, that generation are incredibly, fearful in many cases around retirement. And so and at the same time, there's a huge, sort of succession planning, critical mission that a company needs to do to prepare for their senior leaders kind of retiring, so passing the baton on. So with some of the companies that I work with, we've been using a sabbatical program for their leadership teams or their executive level to help smooth that transition into retirement. So it's this wonderful practice, mini retirement. The leader gets to try on retirement and sort of start figuring out who they wanna be and what kind of life they wanna live in retirement.

With

and then they return to the workforce, and they've got some more time to set things up. Like, they wanna go into teaching positions or board positions or whatever it is so that once they get to retirement, those things are set up and they're ready to go. Right? They don't just get to retirement, and then there's nothing. Right? Because it takes time to get a teaching position or get a board position in place. Right? So they've got that beautiful smooth sort of shift into retirement. But then at the same time, what the company is getting is this practice of what a succession plan might look like. So they get to try the new leaders coming up. The new leaders get this wonderful exposure and opportunity to step up, take new opportunity, prove that they're ready for that new promotion.

You know?

Yeah. Yeah.

And try on what it's like to to be in this role, we know, and to and at the same time from a from client's perspective, the client is getting access to more people, in the company, and and, you know, there's deeper client relationships by simply, you know, just having different contact points between the client and the and the firm. Right? So there's there's all sorts of different reasons that companies kind of wanna wanna do this. In the tech space, it's absolutely around, attraction and retention of people as well. Particularly, maybe not for the big tech firms, but for the little tech firms who are trying to hire, talent in, you know, very competitive niches. You know, having something like a a 2 month sabbatical program, maybe a paid sabbatical. I mean, that's a huge perk to offer your employees. Right? And one that the younger generations who are coming up through tech really value. We know that.

You know, I've yeah. A survey the other day said 71% of people would take a sabbatical if their company offered it. Right? And so there's the attraction piece, but also the retentions piece is not just about about burnout, but it's about, you know, giving people reasons to stay. Right? And so if you cleverly craft your sabbatical program and the policy around it, you can craft your, the the tenure that somebody needs to have been with the company, the length of service somebody needs to be with the company for, at sort of natural exit points. Right? So if you feel like there's a churn point in some place in in your your workforce and you want people to sort of stay for a bit longer, you offer the sabbatical just before the churn point. Right? And so they are holding on to to keep to stay and take the sabbatical and then returning again refreshed and and ready to go for the next chapter. So you you're not losing people.

Interesting. That is so powerful. I I think about, specifically some person in my family who is very successful, very good at what they do, and they work for a large organization that's just it's like they are just plowing the field Yeah. And there's no thought. It's just, once we plow this field, we're going to the next field, and then the next field. It's just everything is just, we're just plowing, plowing, plowing. And he's at a point where the thought is, well, hold on a second. I don't wanna just mindlessly plow fields and just, you know, and I think about that, you know, your distinction about maybe the the smaller midsize tech company who realizes that this is a pathway to burnout.

We wanna offer something that is unique because I would imagine it's a differentiator. Right? Yes, ma'am. And it places people at a because I I think, Lyndall, our audience realizes that neither of us are saying, oh, corporations are bad, and companies are wrong. We've gotta no. It's not that at all. We're just kind of wanting to introduce humanity a bit into how we get on with this thing called work. Right? I I gotta segue a bit because I'm thinking about maybe the most important part of our world, meaning our individual lives, and that's family. I I know from experience of what it's like to crash and burn at, you know, my family being healthy as I'm going through a transition.

So what are the benefits for a family, potentially, from the individual taking a sabbatical?

The the answer to that is so simple. Quality time. It's just it's just it's as simple as that quality time, you know, in the pace that we live and work at. The the amount of time, but also the quality of that time in its ability to connect, and build relationships, and share experiences, and make memories. You know, that time is just not there. And a sabbatical gives you time back to be able to plow it into memory making instead of plowing it into work. Right? And it's about giving yourself time with the people that you love to do the things that you love, and they are the moments that you will remember for the rest of your life.

And, Lyndal, you you you said something. I saw this interview, once again, my memory failing. I don't remember who it was with, but they were talking about the tendency for taking things for granted. It kind of occurs when we are finding ourselves in this sort of mindless rinse and repeat mode. Yeah. And I'm almost, and for audience, no, Lyndall has not hired me as her marketing representative. But what I'm about to say it's what I love about your work because it is a very strategic way to get out of the, maybe, take it for granted mode that occurred. You know, because we've heard this before.

Right? When people go, I don't know where the 10 years went. I I don't I it just flew by.

Can I can I tell you another story?

Oh, please. Please. Yeah.

So another one of my clients, they're on sabbatical right now, actually. And it's a family. It's a family. And the, the husband is working in a fast paced startup world. The wife has, got her own business, and they've got, I wanna say it's like 4 a 4 year old and a 6 year old, or a 5 year old and a 7 year old. It's it's like those ages. Right? And they were recognising that they didn't have time for each other, right? The husband and wife in their relationship, they were just running it. And they didn't have time with their kids to be the kinds of parents that they wanted to be.

Right? Mhmm. And then it was also the recognition that their kids were only going to be these ages for a fine a tiny little slither of time in their whole life. Right? And they needed and really wanted to to make use of that time to not just have time together, but to create this amazing family experience, these amazing memories. So they've literally taken a year off, Right? So this is the other end of the spectrum.

Oh, sure. Right. Right.

They're traveling the world, and they're doing like, 3 months in in a different continent. They've just finished their European you know, part, and now they're in Bali. And it's been just absolutely filled with, experiences, but it's not just about the traveling. Right? It's not for them. It's not it's not just we're gonna go and travel. We started working together before their sabbatical. So we got super crystal clear on what it is that was important for their family. Right? And what they wanted for their kids was that they wanted their kids to grow in, compassion, and empathy, and, you know, emotional intelligence through giving them these worldly experiences, but what they wanted to do was not necessarily always have those experiences be comfortable or,

you know

yeah. And I have to remember one of the things that they said was that they wanted to have experiences and allow their children to embrace the good, the bad, and the boring. They wanted their kids to be bored. Wow. And to learn everything that you can be learnt- you can learn from being bored, you know?

Yeah.

Into,

yeah. I I gotta I I have to, to go, that's such a great story. And and I and I I always try to put my and especially in our show with the diversity of of our audience. So if out there, Lyndal, there's someone that says, hey. I I get it. I like this idea, this sabbatical thing. Wow. This is really but, hey, Lyndal, I can't take off a year and I can't take off 3 months.

I might be able to pull off a month. Does that is that okay? What do you say to that person?

Is that okay? Of course, it's okay. Any any

Awesome. Okay. Right?

You don't have any you have any and all permission granted to give yourself a break, you know, whatever that looks like for you. Right? And if it's if it's a month, great. Make that happen. If you can challenge yourself and make that a little bit longer, great. Do that. You know? Right. And if I mean, you know, obviously, we're talking about people working with me in my 1 on 1 coaching program, but not everybody can afford that. So great.

I also have a a sabbatical and career break community that is just a a low monthly access fee that people can get classes and courses and self self paced learning, and they get, drop in coaching with me and my business part partner, and we get community calls, and we have, an entire resource library. Right? So there's, like, whilst I work in this really deep kind of 1 on 1, you know Sure. Relationship with with some of my coaching clients, there's also so much support that's available for people that can't afford that either. Right? Because I'm gonna say something like anti my own marketing.

I've done that before.

It's like, if you can't afford to take a break, right, and you're choosing between, you know, taking a break or hiring a coach, I want you to take the break, don't hire the coach, you know, don't hire me as a coach. If, you know, like if you really can't, if Yeah, basically, so let's say, you know, you can, you you wanna take a break, you can maybe only make 1 or 2 months. You know, you're not in the place to afford a coach. That's that's fine. Join something like break space, which is our community. It's completely affordable. You're not gonna get that deep personal one on one time with a coach, but you get to get the support of all of the other people on the same journey. And you've got all of the self paced learning and the resources and the course, there's so much there, you know, for for anyone.

So there's ways to get support and I want you to get that support, that's why we built the community. And, you know, so don't think that in order to make the most of a sabbatical, you have to work with a coach. You know, I do want you to get support, but there's very affordable options for that as well.

And that's awesome, Lyndal. And for our audience, as always, we'll have in the show notes ways in which you can join that community as well as get more information on Lyndal. And and I guess, Lyndal, as we're kind of getting toward the end of our time together here today, and which I hope you'll come back because I still have some other things I wanted to talk about.

Sure.

It's it's been great. I I guess when I I I I'm so encouraged that people might today go, wow, when I saw this at the beginning, I'm thinking I can't do that, that maybe now they're kind of going, well, maybe I can do this, right? What would you say, I mean, from a, I I guess, from a societal perspective. Right? Let's just kinda look at it from that. And I I know you're in Europe or and and I'm in the United States and all. What do you think is maybe one benefit for society, for the community, world community, when people are taking sabbaticals?

Yeah. If we step back, right, and we look at the way things are heading with the pace and pressures of work, right? We're basically creating a workforce that is stuck on a hamster wheel, completely blind focused, just working into a hole, right? Kind of just the direction that work is going at the moment, right? So, would you rather that workforce, or would you rather the workforce that's able to strategically plan and prepare for short breaks from work every few years, 5 every 5 to 7 years. Right? Where they step out, they recharge. They develop their EQ. They develop their sense of self. They develop a plan for the future. They, develop career skills, you know, whatever it is that they wanna do in that time, and then they step back into the workforce as whole creative, unblinked, productive, people in the workforce. I mean, that workforce is the one that I want for the future.

Right?

Yeah.

Not the robots.

And you know what? And again, I'm I'm such a bad host today because this is one of the things I wanna talk to you the next time, but I gotta bring it up. I have to bring it up. I think there's also I would ask that employer, that, you know, government entity, whatever it may be, do you really think you have enough money to pay for the health care cost of the robot version?

Yeah.

Yeah. Because Lyndal is I know you know, we haven't talked about metabolic health. We haven't talked about the impact of burnout, the stress, the cortisol. So on that point, let's pick it up there when you come back because I do think that's vitally important, near and dear to my heart. I cannot thank you enough for joining us today. It's been awesome. It's been awesome.

It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks.

And everyone out there, as you could tell in my voice, this has just been a great episode. I hope it's been enjoyable for you, and we look forward to the next time that we're together. Take care.