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Growing in a downturn
18th May 2022 • Better Business, Better Life • RightWay Ltd
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How do you get back to maintaining growth in your business during a downturn?

Stuart Wilkinson and Dave Jaggs from RightWay chat through how businesses can maintain growth in the current market, as well as maximising the opportunities as others may be forced to hunker down.

Transcripts

Stuart Wilkinson:

Welcome to the better business, a better life podcast.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I'm your host Stuart Wilkinson with...

Dave Jaggs:

Dave I'm back.

Dave Jaggs:

I've made a second one.

Stuart Wilkinson:

We're back for a second one back for a second one.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, we're on time this week.

Dave Jaggs:

This is a good start.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yes, it's Tuesday when we're recording it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, and.

Stuart Wilkinson:

As always, we'll do a little bit of intro and stuff and we've got main topic.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, what's coming up.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Uh, just so everyone's aware next week, Thursday's budget days and next

Stuart Wilkinson:

Tuesday's podcast, or next week podcast.

Stuart Wilkinson:

We'll, we'll, we'll discuss a bit about that.

Stuart Wilkinson:

The budget now is not really a thing because we now know

Stuart Wilkinson:

what's coming the budget.

Stuart Wilkinson:

ie yesterday was this whole, um, climate change and investments there.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And we've had over the announcements, but we'll, we'll have a little

Stuart Wilkinson:

bit of a chat about it because.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Apparently it's the thing that accounting firms do because I always see, oh, that's

Stuart Wilkinson:

lunch with grant Robinson to discuss the budget by X, Y, Z at accounting firms.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So as an accounting firm, we should do it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So we will, we'll have a chat about it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, but

Dave Jaggs:

I think we can make it fun and positive.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Oh, fun and positive obviously but I, you

Stuart Wilkinson:

know, it's an interesting time.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, and when there's, I think probably a few more eyes on the budget this

Stuart Wilkinson:

year, I think we're just environment we're in coming in post COVID

Stuart Wilkinson:

how we move the country forward.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So we'll have a bit of a chat about that.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, but before we get into the topic today, Dave, um, how was your week?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Any, any, any stories personal or business?

Dave Jaggs:

I've, I've had a really good week actually.

Dave Jaggs:

I shouldn't sound so surprised by that.

Dave Jaggs:

Should I?

Dave Jaggs:

Um, now I've had actually a really good one.

Dave Jaggs:

We've had some really good, good stuff happening at work, which to be honest,

Dave Jaggs:

as we kind of spoke about just off air beforehand is the classical case

Dave Jaggs:

of like, um, playing the long game, nurturing some really good customers.

Dave Jaggs:

But, you know, it takes a while to get them on board, but getting them over the

Dave Jaggs:

line and getting them on is really good.

Dave Jaggs:

And it's kind of showing them, we're doing things in the right way, which is nice.

Dave Jaggs:

And, um, I actually took my daughter for her first 5k trail race this weekend.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So, um, a little background on Dave here.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So Dave is.

Stuart Wilkinson:

What is the technical term multi-sport athlete or adventure racer.

Dave Jaggs:

Multi sport is kind of more what I do rather than adventure racing,

Dave Jaggs:

but yeah, that's kind of always been a big passion coast to coast and things.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And how old is your daughter?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Dave?

Dave Jaggs:

She's just turned three.

Dave Jaggs:

She loved it.

Dave Jaggs:

Well between, like, she kind of went on my shoulders for the kind of steeper or

Dave Jaggs:

narrow stuff, and then she ran on the wider stuff and, um, yeah, it was good.

Dave Jaggs:

So Soph away.

Dave Jaggs:

So I had Teddy and Flo, so we kind of all went up and made a

Dave Jaggs:

bit of a morning outing of it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Fantastic.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah, it was good.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But the thing about toddlers is they just run everywhere.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So there's no in-between stop or run.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I find so.

Dave Jaggs:

I managed to tell her the bananas actually make

Dave Jaggs:

the pains in her legs go away.

Dave Jaggs:

So, you know, she was pretty keen for a couple of bananas

Dave Jaggs:

good time.

Dave Jaggs:

It was good.

Dave Jaggs:

It was good.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Good.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And get them used to the endurance pain early Dave, and then they would be fine.

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

It's going to be the first of many poor kid.

Dave Jaggs:

Doesn't know what she's in for.

Stuart Wilkinson:

No, exactly, exactly.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Right.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Good.

Dave Jaggs:

What about yourself?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, yeah, it was good week.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Actually.

Stuart Wilkinson:

We, um, our leadership team, we got together for the first time since August,

Stuart Wilkinson:

we worked back last year in face-to-face and Christ church, which was wonderful.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Like, eh, you know, I know technology has moved us all forward in the sense

Stuart Wilkinson:

of, you know, being able to collaborate better and easier work from home.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And there's plenty of discussions and maybe that's another podcast.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Talk about the migration of that, but it was interesting.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You know, when you're wanting to get some good thoughts into a

Stuart Wilkinson:

deep into one subject and a real focus and collaborate around it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Like you can't beat face-to-face.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It was just the energy, you know, being able to, um, just discuss

Stuart Wilkinson:

in a much more natural way.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It's interesting.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I thought the,

Dave Jaggs:

I don't think you realize how much you miss it until you actually

Dave Jaggs:

get back into going face to face.

Dave Jaggs:

Because obviously I was in Auckland last week for the day and actually just

Dave Jaggs:

having everyone there and sitting down and having a coffee just having a chat.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Oh, exactly.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So good.

Dave Jaggs:

Just stuff that you miss when you're doing things

Dave Jaggs:

online is the small thing.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I think online, there's not, there's no small talk and whatever,

Stuart Wilkinson:

and just that dynamic, there's a different, massive, different dynamics.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So that was really good.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I was, I was looking forward to it, but I was still surprised how much I was.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I like now.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I remember why it's quite good to see people again.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, and it's those, especially being an Aucklander, how.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Conditioned we've been for the last whatever month.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So that was really cool.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, and yeah, and I think there was, um, one of the things that I, we talked

Stuart Wilkinson:

a bit about, and I guess any businesses is always looking at is capacity.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And, and we went through this cool model, which is a mindshop model.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, and I'll put a link to actually in the show notes, um, which we use, which

Stuart Wilkinson:

I think is really useful when people, and I guess it ties into our theme of the

Stuart Wilkinson:

today, which is about growth, but, you know, we aren't under times when lately.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It's hard to get, you know, like most industries, it

Stuart Wilkinson:

doesn't matter who you talk to.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, talent.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It's very hard to get.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So one of the things we were looking at is what makes up capacity.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And we went through this, this model of capacity can be made up of people.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Obviously.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Uh, the second one is the capability of people.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So the more you train and the more experienced you are,

Stuart Wilkinson:

you can do tasks quicker.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You can do take a more advanced tasks where it might be processes

Stuart Wilkinson:

and systems is the third one.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And then the fourth one is technology, which does link a little bit to process.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So we kind of went through that and got some really good insights.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So I think sometimes when we are busy as business businesses and business

Stuart Wilkinson:

owners and whatever it might be, it is good just to sit down and actually

Stuart Wilkinson:

nut down into some detail, parts of things like capacity or challenge

Stuart Wilkinson:

you've got and really ask the one thing we kept challenging ourselves on.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You know, what, what are the one or two things that are

Stuart Wilkinson:

linked to this, this issue?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Because there's lots of things that you could get caught up with

Stuart Wilkinson:

here, but what is the one that's actually going to be the difference?

Stuart Wilkinson:

And so there's a couple of processes,

Dave Jaggs:

80 20 rule, isn't it?

Dave Jaggs:

You know, 20% of them are taking way, 80% of the capacity.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So it was, it was good.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So that was good week.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It was really good to see people, um, as my takeaway from that.

Dave Jaggs:

That's good it feels like world's coming back to normal.

Dave Jaggs:

Finally.

Dave Jaggs:

Borders are open as well.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Well, I think so.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah, we're opening.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So, uh, and so that's, uh, so we thought we'd bridge from last week's,

Stuart Wilkinson:

um, podcast, which is, um, and if you haven't checked out before, um,

Stuart Wilkinson:

just scroll one down on your feed.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And there it is, um, is that was talking about the interest rate rises, inflation

Stuart Wilkinson:

and what that means for businesses and, and potential squeezes, not so stuff.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So, one of the things we wanted to do is talking about growing into potentially

Stuart Wilkinson:

headwinds time and headwinds or downtown or whatever you want to like, how do you,

Stuart Wilkinson:

how do you get back to maintaining growth?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Because we do know, we talked about this last week on the podcast that 2010

Stuart Wilkinson:

was the last time we had a, kind of a dip in recession and in New Zealand and

Stuart Wilkinson:

ever since then, Good growth throughout most markets and that sort of thing.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So what do we have to think about to maintain growth?

Stuart Wilkinson:

And Dave, you talked about this a little bit, but also maximizing this

Stuart Wilkinson:

opportunity where some people may hunker down a bit more, so you might

Stuart Wilkinson:

be able to be a bit more aggressive.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Do you want to just reflect on that point Dave that you talked about last week?

Dave Jaggs:

I guess this all comes down to everyone's personal situation.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, however, if you are in a good financial position, right.

Dave Jaggs:

Yes, there is going to be a little bit of a downturn.

Dave Jaggs:

No one quite knows how, what that looks like.

Dave Jaggs:

However, it could be a time to look at growing your business because potentially

Dave Jaggs:

there is going to be less competition.

Dave Jaggs:

Other people who are in your industry may well be battening down the

Dave Jaggs:

hatches because of finance issues.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, so this could be your time to actually write.

Dave Jaggs:

Hit the burners and go for it.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, and even not, there is still ways of growing within this time, kind of

Dave Jaggs:

linking back to use during the fact of like, actually just by ensuring that

Dave Jaggs:

you are working at capacity and you are leveraging off your client base.

Dave Jaggs:

And that's kind of the really important stuff right now is actually

Dave Jaggs:

to really understand your numbers and what your growth options.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I think, uh, w and I think that will, will, and we've got some talking points

Stuart Wilkinson:

to go through today on, on, on the pod.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But I think growth, one of the things we've talked about, we talked about this

Stuart Wilkinson:

or fed to me, Dave, with some of the work you've been doing recently with customers.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And, and some of the sessions I've actually had is this has got to come

Stuart Wilkinson:

back to the goal of the business owners and what they're trying to

Stuart Wilkinson:

achieve, because growth can sound great, but it's got a link to.

Stuart Wilkinson:

What are the business owners trying to achieve?

Stuart Wilkinson:

And the situations we were faced with one of the, one of the goals

Stuart Wilkinson:

of that those business owners were in both situations was time.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Wasn't it?

Stuart Wilkinson:

I know Dave, the one you did last week, it was about time.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Wasn't it?

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

I think time, time for most business owners is one of the biggest things

Dave Jaggs:

it's actually, they're trying to find time back so that they can.

Dave Jaggs:

Enjoy that kids enjoy that life.

Dave Jaggs:

Just be a bit more relaxed, not feel so stressed out.

Dave Jaggs:

And actually, I think time management is probably one of the biggest things that

Dave Jaggs:

can actually improve and improve your kind of growth and profitability as well.

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I, so, so I think that there's no two ways about it is, is growing a business.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I'm going to say hard, but it can be taught.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It takes time, you know?

Stuart Wilkinson:

So I think if you're going, Hey, I want to get balanced my life.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You know, growth can mean growth in margin.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It can mean mean growth in revenue.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It can mean growth in product.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I mean a number of different things.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So I guess we'll talk a little bit about growth of the top line today.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Like, you know, thinking about that, but also some ideas

Stuart Wilkinson:

also in the margin and stuff.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So Dave I'll pass you and cause you've kind of in our notes for

Stuart Wilkinson:

today, talked about questions, asked.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I like this, the right way to grow.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So, um,

Dave Jaggs:

I dropped in, I dropped in a strategy session the other

Dave Jaggs:

day, much to their amusement.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So what, um, yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So what, what, what, what are the lenses you're I guess, encouraging

Stuart Wilkinson:

clients who want to sort of think about growth or serious growth

Stuart Wilkinson:

or maximizing opportunities.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, I guess the first thing for me was like, actually identifying

Dave Jaggs:

what are the kinds of primary ways of growing for business now, like

Dave Jaggs:

I kind of sum it up in three ways.

Dave Jaggs:

I know there's going to be a few more, or you could frame it differently.

Dave Jaggs:

However, like kind of your first option is to acquire new customers.

Dave Jaggs:

However, that potentially can be hard because you've actually got to steal

Dave Jaggs:

them from somewhere else or you've got to show them why you're better.

Dave Jaggs:

You've actually got to get them to give you a shot.

Dave Jaggs:

Okay.

Dave Jaggs:

So not always the easiest way, especially if you kind of marketing in

Dave Jaggs:

a reasonably kind of cluttered market.

Dave Jaggs:

So there's lots of, kind of other people offering what you do.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, the, another kind of primary way to grow is to increase your sale price.

Dave Jaggs:

Now that's not necessarily just cranking the prices up for what

Dave Jaggs:

you currently provide, but finding a way to increase per person, what

Dave Jaggs:

they're kind of spending with you.

Dave Jaggs:

So it could be adding more services or it could be kind of, um, looking

Dave Jaggs:

at some other bits and pieces.

Dave Jaggs:

And then the third one is increasing the sales frequency.

Dave Jaggs:

So if they spend X amount with you a month, how can you take that X

Dave Jaggs:

amount a month and make X amount?

Dave Jaggs:

Every three weeks, all of these things are going to kind of grow your bottom line.

Dave Jaggs:

And for me to kind of the preferred ones, um, especially at the moment whilst.

Dave Jaggs:

labour market is really tight and that is increased the sale price

Dave Jaggs:

and increase the frequency because potentially you can actually do those

Dave Jaggs:

things on your current overheads.

Dave Jaggs:

You don't actually have to increase your overheads as such.

Dave Jaggs:

So by overhead, I'm talking about your staffing, your leases, all of those

Dave Jaggs:

kinds of things, but actually has a direct impact at the end of the year.

Dave Jaggs:

To your profit margin.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Correct.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I think, look, it's, um, you know, and simple parts of that as well, Dave,

Stuart Wilkinson:

isn't it is the cost to acquire a new customer versus the one you've already

Stuart Wilkinson:

got is there's a lot of investment you've got to make in marketing,

Stuart Wilkinson:

as you said, potentially building capacity to take on those customers.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And again, depending on the industry you're in that can

Stuart Wilkinson:

mean a lot of things around.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, and stock.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It could mean people, it could mean assets.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It could mean technology can mean a number of things

Dave Jaggs:

at the start.

Dave Jaggs:

I planted some seeds like six months ago, and they've

Dave Jaggs:

actually only come to fruition.

Dave Jaggs:

Now, some of these other things are far more tangible in the fact

Dave Jaggs:

of, well, actually I could get that going and probably be making

Dave Jaggs:

money out of it in two weeks.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And it's interesting.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Which links a little bit to this, but I'll, I'll tell the other

Stuart Wilkinson:

story is, um, I'm currently doing, we're planning a renovation.

Stuart Wilkinson:

We're still in the old building consent phase, so that's wonderful.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, but I was speaking to my architect because we were, what was, he was looking

Stuart Wilkinson:

for someone, it was an engineering, something report, and the building

Stuart Wilkinson:

industry has been going gangbusters.

Stuart Wilkinson:

At the moment.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And so everyone's busy plus you've got COVID so people who've

Stuart Wilkinson:

been brought onto the tools.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, and he was following up someone to do a piece of work that he'd said he

Stuart Wilkinson:

would get to and he hadn't, and he's sorry been on the tools and no phone.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You want to get to it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And as my architect said, that that's all like, I get it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Like I get that, you know, people are under the pump and stuff, but what happens

Stuart Wilkinson:

when things slide down downturn and he goes, oh yeah, X, I won't name him.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, uh, if you got any work and he's like, well, yeah, but I've got

Stuart Wilkinson:

to think back to you didn't really help me out when I needed you.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I think this is the thing about what you said there, Dave, and,

Stuart Wilkinson:

and this is not to increase sale price and increased sale frequency.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Some of that, this probably does link there's.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Some of that does link to capacity in the sense of have you got time and depending

Stuart Wilkinson:

on what your business is, To go out and understand your customer's needs,

Stuart Wilkinson:

understand what's going on in their world.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So you can give yourself a chance if you've kind of done in that example,

Stuart Wilkinson:

that Dave to be front of mind and show you can help, because I guess it's

Stuart Wilkinson:

all very good while you're busy to go.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Hey, I'm just flat-tack and I can't move anything further, but.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You've hit your limit there.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So you're not going to, whether it's good times or bad, you are not going to

Stuart Wilkinson:

be able to grow any further than that.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So understanding the different roles within the business that needs.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Can it be freed up with capacity and you can model, I talked about my help you with

Stuart Wilkinson:

that, but this isn't just going to happen.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You need to actually do something within the business to make capacity

Stuart Wilkinson:

so you can execute again, depending on what your industry is in it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But I think it's for certain people, we've had such a good time.

Stuart Wilkinson:

People works, come to them kind of naturally and cool.

Stuart Wilkinson:

That's awesome.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But at some point to make somebody shifts and I think especially as increased

Stuart Wilkinson:

sale price, Yeah, you have to have some deliberate actions and deliberate

Stuart Wilkinson:

strategies, which takes a bit of time to actually put it in place, measure

Stuart Wilkinson:

it, see what works tweak at free relaunch, whatever it might be around it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But I think to make this happen overall and all the things we do time and focus

Stuart Wilkinson:

and capacity and roles and businesses are really important to this, I think.

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah, definitely.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, and it is an exciting time, isn't it?

Dave Jaggs:

You know, I think COVID has.

Dave Jaggs:

Gone now I can't see us going back into a lockdown.

Dave Jaggs:

So I think you can start to do things with a bit more security.

Dave Jaggs:

So although there is a slight downturn, I think there's

Dave Jaggs:

lots of other positives going.

Dave Jaggs:

It's not like you're trying to fly something up with a budget in there

Dave Jaggs:

that we might go into a lockdown for two months or however long.

Dave Jaggs:

Do you know what I mean?

Dave Jaggs:

So I think there's lots of perks, which I guess kind of

Dave Jaggs:

brings onto that first point.

Dave Jaggs:

It doesn't it like for me, the first question that I

Dave Jaggs:

talked to a customer about is.

Dave Jaggs:

How secure are you in this economy with interest rates?

Dave Jaggs:

And this is kind of stuff we brushed on last week.

Dave Jaggs:

And I think as long as your house is in order and you can go, all right.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, I'm keen for this.

Dave Jaggs:

I can actually invest in some growth, whether it's time commitments or

Dave Jaggs:

financial commitments, then now is the time to really start looking at that and

Dave Jaggs:

actually having a bit more of a think about what does it look, because I think

Dave Jaggs:

you could invest in some training, so you can actually be a bit more of a

Dave Jaggs:

specialist, or you could invest in some more equipment, depending what industry

Dave Jaggs:

you're in, or you could invest into marketing to acquire more customers.

Dave Jaggs:

If you are secure, I think now is a good time to put the foot down and go for it.

Dave Jaggs:

That would be my gut instinct.

Dave Jaggs:

And that is exactly what I would be doing.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, if I still owned.

Dave Jaggs:

The physio and 10 clinics right now, you know, we're in a good position

Dave Jaggs:

and it's a hundred percent time to go for it because we wouldn't have been

Dave Jaggs:

servicing debt on that side of stuff.

Dave Jaggs:

So, you know, it's a good time to step up.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I think linked to that, David, and it's, it's how secure

Stuart Wilkinson:

you are, but it's, you may deal with lots of different types of customers

Stuart Wilkinson:

and stuff, and there might be a portion that you go, that's a big question.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Well, then that may be 20%, but 80% at fine.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So part of your growth strategy might be.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Not diluting them probably as a better word is, okay, well, let's make that 5%.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And the rest 95% is, so some of that growth you may come is, and maybe this

Stuart Wilkinson:

is more linked to margin or profit.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I don't know, but it is looking at okay, where do we need to reassure

Stuart Wilkinson:

ourselves or sure ourselves up?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Probably a better way of saying it because it's.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Black and white and every business is slightly different around this.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So, but as you said to, you know, you may go, uh, like you sort of said

Stuart Wilkinson:

there, Dave of training is going okay.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Well, that training allows us to sure up our relationship

Stuart Wilkinson:

with our existing customers, but also the opportunity to get.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Go from 300 bucks on average, on a month to three 50.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Cool.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Because we can now provide this, we can grow value or we can launch this

Stuart Wilkinson:

additional service, whatever it might be.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And that links to that point around average.

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

Or it might mean that you could target an audience that potentially isn't going

Dave Jaggs:

to be affected by a downtown economy.

Dave Jaggs:

Do you know what I mean?

Dave Jaggs:

So I think there's just things you can be doing now, but investing in

Dave Jaggs:

some staff training or some training for the company could actually

Dave Jaggs:

align you with an audience that is.

Dave Jaggs:

A better fit for the next couple of years.

Dave Jaggs:

Correct.

Dave Jaggs:

And I think that's probably, you know, that's that kind of, it's that time

Dave Jaggs:

to start just looking at those things.

Dave Jaggs:

So I, um, you know, and to be honest, there's not many industries

Dave Jaggs:

out there that there hasn't been someone else there before.

Dave Jaggs:

So actually doing that research around what are your competitors doing?

Dave Jaggs:

I always think is a really good.

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

You know, you can actually see, well, what's what specializations

Dave Jaggs:

or training have they done?

Dave Jaggs:

What extra equipment have they got that I don't, or, you know, what are they

Dave Jaggs:

potentially doing with their marketing?

Dave Jaggs:

It's that learn from other people, even if it's not necessarily,

Dave Jaggs:

you know, I'm an ex-pat.

Dave Jaggs:

I come from the UK.

Dave Jaggs:

I spend a lot of time researching companies in the UK that are similar

Dave Jaggs:

to my clients in New Zealand.

Dave Jaggs:

And sometimes I'm like, oh, it doesn't fit the New Zealand market, but other

Dave Jaggs:

times I'm like, oh, that's actually quite a logical process or a logical addition.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But I think that's, I think, I think that's a really good point.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You've made there Dave, is don't limit yourself to what's in my town or my

Stuart Wilkinson:

neighborhood actually look at what are the trends that are happening

Stuart Wilkinson:

overseas, because there are certain markets which are going to be ahead of

Stuart Wilkinson:

the curve to us, you know, massively.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And, and obviously, um, you want to deal with like-minded markets, as

Stuart Wilkinson:

he said, UK, us, Australia, um, but different, different ideas, just

Stuart Wilkinson:

different thoughts and different ways, maybe servicing their client.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You know, it's, it's not, we're not talking about revolutionizing

Stuart Wilkinson:

your business here, but it's just different ways of okay.

Stuart Wilkinson:

How can I help my customer and how can I make the most out of that simple

Stuart Wilkinson:

terms is a good way to think about it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So that's a good point.

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

So I, you know, from, um, with that and kinda mind, like one of our clients,

Dave Jaggs:

um, window, ninjas they're just the window cleaners and like they've

Dave Jaggs:

only been operating for just over 12 months, but they're doing great.

Dave Jaggs:

They're like going good guns, logical progression.

Dave Jaggs:

And it kind of fits really nicely into that increased frequency

Dave Jaggs:

was they've actually just got into pressure washing houses.

Dave Jaggs:

Now, again, it's not something it's not something that is as

Dave Jaggs:

regular as window cleaning.

Dave Jaggs:

However, they've already got a client base who is into home maintenance and

Dave Jaggs:

they're into outsourcing home maintenance.

Dave Jaggs:

So it's such a logical addition.

Dave Jaggs:

And if you're driving out to that house to clean the windows, did they want

Dave Jaggs:

to pressure wash once or twice a year?

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

You know, it's literally the McDonald's do you want fries with that.

Dave Jaggs:

Isn't it?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Making it convenient.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I think it's, it's really, I think there's some really good examples of this.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, you know, if you think a bigger business, which may

Stuart Wilkinson:

mean like, well, I've been in.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Long-term um, user of my food bag.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It's like, it's fantastic.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I was when, since they first started and they've obviously grown and grown,

Stuart Wilkinson:

um, and, but one of the things they've made a big shift in is rather than

Stuart Wilkinson:

just, Hey, here's your four meals a week or whatever is the ability

Stuart Wilkinson:

to add an extras, which might be.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You know, bread, milk, um, also stuff for lunches and all that sort of stuff.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah, they got, they got, and, and so they've started, they've just

Stuart Wilkinson:

started to broaden that slightly.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You know, it's not, it's not the supermarket, but you can

Stuart Wilkinson:

see what they're trying to do.

Stuart Wilkinson:

There is going, Hey, we've got a great channel, um, to market we've already got

Stuart Wilkinson:

the infrastructure, ie, the delivery, the capability to do that, the systems

Stuart Wilkinson:

and processes, obviously the tech to kind of make that seamless process

Stuart Wilkinson:

as well through their app or website.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But, you know, if suddenly 30% of their clients all suddenly go all

Stuart Wilkinson:

well, I'll just add my milk and my bread and butter or whatever.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It might only be 20 bucks extra, but suddenly $20 extra every week

Stuart Wilkinson:

from a good chunk of people for.

Stuart Wilkinson:

No, I'm not having to invest in new infrastructure because

Stuart Wilkinson:

my delivery networks there.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So it's

Dave Jaggs:

like supermarket as well.

Dave Jaggs:

Once you add to start adding in those things.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Correct.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And it's, and it's something that I know is regular.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Cause it comes, you know, for us it's Sunday after 3:00 PM, you know, so it's

Stuart Wilkinson:

not something that's, oh, this is foreign.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You know, we've got a trusted relationship with them and they know

Stuart Wilkinson:

that we'll do a good job and you know, the things they've made mistakes on

Stuart Wilkinson:

before they, they make up for it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So.

Stuart Wilkinson:

They've done the hard yards to, for me to go out and start that I

Stuart Wilkinson:

don't like that, but they do stuff.

Stuart Wilkinson:

They did stuff for mother's day, like include a, whatever.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It was a breakfast kit stuff.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So it's just being smart and I think it's similar to the, you know, you've got one

Stuart Wilkinson:

scale there with a window washing idea of, Hey, I've got a great regular clientele.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I know they're going to use this.

Stuart Wilkinson:

How do I add that in right to my food bag?

Stuart Wilkinson:

So thinking about, Hey, this is my delivery mechanism

Stuart Wilkinson:

to my customers already.

Stuart Wilkinson:

What is it that my customers want and how can I make their life easy?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Because that's the beauty of what my food bag is.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It makes life easy.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So for me to go, boom, boom, cool.

Stuart Wilkinson:

that's taken care of, um, a lot.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So yeah, I think that's the frequency and the average sell price is a really

Stuart Wilkinson:

interesting thing to you get kind of, I think at the first question, I'd

Stuart Wilkinson:

say to all, businesses you don't know.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Good to know it

Dave Jaggs:

And like identify who you've got.

Dave Jaggs:

Who's your ideal client.

Dave Jaggs:

Who's likely to want more.

Dave Jaggs:

And I guess that for me, texting with that third thing is like,

Dave Jaggs:

assess your customer's needs and what else can you provide for them?

Dave Jaggs:

You know?

Dave Jaggs:

And you're not looking for something that's necessarily

Dave Jaggs:

particularly labor intensive.

Dave Jaggs:

You're looking for something that it's like, well, they're

Dave Jaggs:

going to get that from somewhere.

Dave Jaggs:

Like you said, with the milk, it's like, they may as well get it from me.

Dave Jaggs:

Because actually you don't have to make a huge profit margin on it, but it all

Dave Jaggs:

adds up when it's kind of a sale that you weren't getting in the first place.

Dave Jaggs:

You know, you're just clipping the ticket on top of it's just a little add on,

Dave Jaggs:

you know, and I think if you can find one of those things that increasing that

Dave Jaggs:

frequency or increasing the sale price, then right now, that's a really good

Dave Jaggs:

way just to ensure that you're working at full capacity and full capacity

Dave Jaggs:

is like, that's the dream result.

Dave Jaggs:

Do you know what I mean?

Dave Jaggs:

You don't necessarily want to grow and add more staff and have

Dave Jaggs:

them sit around doing nothing.

Dave Jaggs:

You just want to ensure that your staff are full.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I think it's, uh, it's then also the ability

Stuart Wilkinson:

we've sort of those ideas that.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

There's grown the top line that we're a little bit on here, but you know,

Stuart Wilkinson:

the ability with packaging or grouping products together or servicing, but

Stuart Wilkinson:

also maximizing margin out of, of, of the customer, because you're linking

Stuart Wilkinson:

some, it's slightly lower margin with a high margin aspect to what

Stuart Wilkinson:

you're selling or grouping together.

Stuart Wilkinson:

I think it's a really good point.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So it, but it has got it.

Stuart Wilkinson:

As you said, Dave, like.

Stuart Wilkinson:

He's got to come down to what your customer is and think about what's

Stuart Wilkinson:

going on in the world and what are the problems you're trying to solve?

Stuart Wilkinson:

What's your value proposition to that?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, you've obviously got a bunch of clients you are successful with,

Stuart Wilkinson:

so it's actually going, well, why am I successful with these clients?

Stuart Wilkinson:

And maybe not as with them, what's the missing link?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Is it, um, how often we speak to them or how often we've followed

Stuart Wilkinson:

up with them on X, Y, and again, industry's going to be very different

Stuart Wilkinson:

on that sort of thing, but yeah,

Stuart Wilkinson:

there will be.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Exactly, but there's going to be a bunch of clients.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You've already do that for, so it's actually, you know, I think

Stuart Wilkinson:

so often you go, what's it not why we're not working with this company?

Stuart Wilkinson:

What, why are we successful?

Stuart Wilkinson:

What do we do differently?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Is it the amount of touch points we have that customer?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Is there, um, something we've done in the past that's led to this

Stuart Wilkinson:

outcome, whatever it might be.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It's really understanding.

Stuart Wilkinson:

That aspect really well to kind of then go, well, if we can do

Stuart Wilkinson:

it there, then surely we can replicate it over more customers.

Stuart Wilkinson:

It's not reinventing the wheel.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Really.

Dave Jaggs:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, so I guess all of those things were kind of spoken about, they're

Dave Jaggs:

all about leveraging your current base, which you know, is a hundred

Dave Jaggs:

percent something you should be doing yet because that's effectively,

Dave Jaggs:

it's already there for the taking.

Dave Jaggs:

You've just got to find the right way of doing it.

Dave Jaggs:

But if you can't leverage your base, that's when you need to

Dave Jaggs:

start looking at marketing and.

Dave Jaggs:

Marketing I think is really interesting.

Dave Jaggs:

One, I think because you know, your market, the question is can you

Dave Jaggs:

provide the right source of marketing and can you do that or do you need

Dave Jaggs:

to outsource it to someone else?

Dave Jaggs:

And I think that all comes down to actually understanding

Dave Jaggs:

who your ideal client is.

Dave Jaggs:

It's not the clients you currently have.

Dave Jaggs:

Realistically, you've probably only got a couple of your ideal clients.

Dave Jaggs:

There's how do you get.

Dave Jaggs:

Yep.

Dave Jaggs:

And that's quite a process in itself is to actually sit down and be like, oh,

Dave Jaggs:

well these are the clients I've got.

Dave Jaggs:

It's like, well, no, they're not the clients you necessarily want

Dave Jaggs:

is that who is your dream client?

Dave Jaggs:

And how do we get more of that?

Dave Jaggs:

Because those guys are there.

Dave Jaggs:

They're the ones that you spend.

Dave Jaggs:

You can spend ages nurturing that relationship.

Dave Jaggs:

But when it does come home,

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah, exactly.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I think then, and look, marketing is a, it's a, that's a whole

Stuart Wilkinson:

series of podcasts, probably do.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Dave is, um, and you know, there's digital, traditional, whatever you want

Stuart Wilkinson:

to channels you want to do, but I think a good, good starting point for any

Stuart Wilkinson:

discussions before you get to marketing is, as you said, who is my ideal customer?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, you will have some of them.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And so what are the traits?

Stuart Wilkinson:

What is the demographics of them?

Stuart Wilkinson:

What is the sort of key pieces of information that you kind of go, whoa.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah, this is my customer.

Stuart Wilkinson:

What, what they would make up and, um, you know, there's, um, terms

Stuart Wilkinson:

like personas where you make actually a level, life-size kind of idea of

Stuart Wilkinson:

who they are and give them a name.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You can do it that way, or let's kind of just Google it and there's

Stuart Wilkinson:

plenty of tools out there for free.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, but having a clarity on that, because then.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, cause I was thinking actually before this Dave that we, one of the comments you

Stuart Wilkinson:

made in the last podcast is that any spend you do make or investment you do make, um,

Stuart Wilkinson:

when money's becoming a lot more expensive or, you know, the return is, is important

Stuart Wilkinson:

that the return has got to be really clear and it has got to be real tangible now.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And so I think with marketing that one digital is a lot more data driven.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So you can have some better insights on that, but if you're going to invest

Stuart Wilkinson:

in marketing, it's got to have a.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Some form of return, I will say because yes, there is always a, you could argue

Stuart Wilkinson:

brand awareness or whatever, but that should still be able to link to a goal.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And outcome of here are the customers, or here is the leads I've got or whatever.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, I come from more of a sales background, so I'm always about

Stuart Wilkinson:

the leads and the opportunities.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, but you shoot, you need to go, well, if I'm going to spend some money here,

Stuart Wilkinson:

what am I expecting out of that and that, and that, you know, and get some,

Stuart Wilkinson:

you might need some professional advice on what's realistic and stuff here.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But you got to go like, this is what I'm looking to do here.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

And I think with kind of that growth that we are focusing

Dave Jaggs:

on here is that realistically you're currently going to get a bigger return

Dave Jaggs:

on more training, more equipment or.

Dave Jaggs:

Do you know what I mean?

Dave Jaggs:

You're going to get a more direct response.

Dave Jaggs:

If you are a Window cleaner you buy a pressure washer.

Dave Jaggs:

You're going to get a tangible return.

Dave Jaggs:

If you buy some more product, like you were talking about my food bag, milk

Dave Jaggs:

bread, again, tangible return marketing.

Dave Jaggs:

You can't be measured with your diet and stuff, but realistically you

Dave Jaggs:

probably could spend a lot more.

Dave Jaggs:

Not get the returns straight away, but it will come down the line.

Dave Jaggs:

And that's always the key thing I think with marketing is can take a lot longer

Dave Jaggs:

to like actually have a tangible kickback.

Dave Jaggs:

Correct.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it.

Dave Jaggs:

And you know, one, you can look at doing yourself or two is you

Dave Jaggs:

go talk to marketing agents.

Dave Jaggs:

Yep.

Dave Jaggs:

And have a chat, you know, there's lots of them out there.

Dave Jaggs:

There's some very well-priced ones, there's amazingly expensive

Dave Jaggs:

ones and they've all got different things to offer, but actually just

Dave Jaggs:

having those conversations will help you identify what you want to do.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I've got plenty of experience, David dealing with

Stuart Wilkinson:

marketing agencies, and I think.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I've, you know, I've, I've, I've understood it a little bit.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Not I've worked in marketing agencies, but I guess from our experience working for

Stuart Wilkinson:

customers, like I said, if you're, I'm not saying you've got to have it completely a

Stuart Wilkinson:

hundred percent crystal, but when making with people that can outsource anything

Stuart Wilkinson:

for, I guess, If you're clear on, Hey, this is what I want to achieve from this

Stuart Wilkinson:

relationship, or this is my goal and what I want to do, um, that helps them.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Okay.

Stuart Wilkinson:

As much as it helps you, um, not just you holding them to account, but I think

Stuart Wilkinson:

often you can go for the agency stuff.

Stuart Wilkinson:

We're client.

Stuart Wilkinson:

They're still in the decision.

Stuart Wilkinson:

They're part of the decision making process.

Stuart Wilkinson:

In essence, like they're trying to help discover and understand what

Stuart Wilkinson:

are we trying to get out of this.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So I do think that if you wanting to go, Hey, look, we all wanted to grow

Stuart Wilkinson:

a footprint here when new customers and whether it's into a new market

Stuart Wilkinson:

or whatever it might be, there's been going okay, well, what does

Stuart Wilkinson:

success look like for us in 12 months?

Stuart Wilkinson:

Where do we want to be?

Stuart Wilkinson:

And some of that may be tangible some intangible, but, and you don't have to

Stuart Wilkinson:

over analyze that, but it might be, Hey, We want to get, um, 20 new customers

Stuart Wilkinson:

and we want to be getting 20, uh, 200 grant for them, or it could be, if you're

Stuart Wilkinson:

more retail hospitality, it might be, Hey, a good, we are wanting to make

Stuart Wilkinson:

sure we've got percentage of bookings for, for evenings at 80%, not 70%.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Cool.

Stuart Wilkinson:

There's a goal.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You could talk that through with a marketing show.

Stuart Wilkinson:

This is what we wanna achieve cold we've now we're on the same page.

Stuart Wilkinson:

We're working for the same thing

Dave Jaggs:

and this some business out there that can't

Dave Jaggs:

even put it into that bracket.

Dave Jaggs:

It's actually brand.

Dave Jaggs:

awareness there a therapy site other than advertise in a doctor's surgery or on

Dave Jaggs:

the side of a football pitch, you know, realistically you're, you are advertising

Dave Jaggs:

your brand in the hope that they remember you when they injure themselves,

Stuart Wilkinson:

when they injure themselves

Dave Jaggs:

or they they hurt their back ay Stu.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, so I guess it's a, it's definitely a broader one in the growth market.

Dave Jaggs:

It's very important.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, definitely.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, trying to like steer away from it, but I think it just, there's other ways

Dave Jaggs:

of creating some more tangible growth and investing in something that's

Dave Jaggs:

going to give you a direct return.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yup.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yup.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, that's a good way.

Stuart Wilkinson:

We've got a lot of points, Dave.

Dave Jaggs:

I think so.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

I just think only thing when you are growing is think about optimal growth.

Dave Jaggs:

What is your maximum profitability and then how do you actually secure that?

Dave Jaggs:

Like in make sure that that becomes a part of who you are as a brand.

Dave Jaggs:

So like optimal growth is just making sure that.

Dave Jaggs:

You don't suddenly have to require more staff because of the way your

Dave Jaggs:

bookings have worked out, which actually makes you less profitable.

Dave Jaggs:

So even though you're servicing more customers, you become less

Dave Jaggs:

profitable and actually truly understanding your numbers as a company.

Dave Jaggs:

As in, if I've got this many staff, I've got this many

Dave Jaggs:

billable hours within a year.

Dave Jaggs:

So that means my profitability is that because.

Dave Jaggs:

If you hit that target, then you've kind of achieved a hundred percent correct?

Dave Jaggs:

Yep.

Dave Jaggs:

So just understanding those little intricacies, I think is really important.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And I think to link to that point as well, Dave it you don't want, I think

Stuart Wilkinson:

it really good points, optimal growth is, Hey, I'm focused all my time and

Stuart Wilkinson:

resourcing on growing the business and whatever way, but that's taking away

Stuart Wilkinson:

from delivering a great service product, whatever it is to my existing customers.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Like, you know, part of this has being, as you said, Dave's optimal go for being

Stuart Wilkinson:

able to grow while not disrupting what we're currently doing and a lot of ways.

Stuart Wilkinson:

And so there's lots of facets into that.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, and it's not always possible, but you know, Things you go with, just

Stuart Wilkinson:

didn't think about that, but yeah.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Is important.

Stuart Wilkinson:

You kind of start to think ahead of going, okay.

Stuart Wilkinson:

How do we make sure we do this?

Dave Jaggs:

And you do have to think about it as a year, not a

Dave Jaggs:

week quite often I speak to people and they're like, well, I can bill

Dave Jaggs:

them out for this much for a week.

Dave Jaggs:

And I pay them that much and it's like, that's cool.

Dave Jaggs:

But that person can be away for eight weeks of the year when

Dave Jaggs:

you paying them for annually.

Dave Jaggs:

10 days of stat days, 10 days of sick days.

Dave Jaggs:

So what does that look like over 12 month period factoring in the

Dave Jaggs:

fact that it's not going to earn anything for you for two months?

Dave Jaggs:

Yup.

Dave Jaggs:

Yup.

Dave Jaggs:

I'm ready to be the bearer of bad news, right.

Dave Jaggs:

At the very end.

Dave Jaggs:

Um, but that is, to me, that's understanding what your optimal

Dave Jaggs:

growth is and understanding what your maximum profitability is.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Perfect.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Perfectly.

Stuart Wilkinson:

There we go.

Stuart Wilkinson:

There we go.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Thanks, Dave.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So hope everyone enjoyed the budget week next week.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, depending on what comes out.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Yeah.

Dave Jaggs:

We'll discuss the best, uh, electric cars to go by.

Dave Jaggs:

It's about what

Stuart Wilkinson:

correct.

Stuart Wilkinson:

How to trade in your dirty, whatever it is.

Stuart Wilkinson:

But anyway, I hope everyone has a good week.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Hope you enjoyed the podcast.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, if you do, please subscribe and leave us a review really

Stuart Wilkinson:

important so we can spread the word.

Stuart Wilkinson:

That was also one of them I suggest is if you have any questions, a

Stuart Wilkinson:

couple of ways you can do that.

Stuart Wilkinson:

A social meal.

Stuart Wilkinson:

Um, whether it's messenger on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, whatever, it

Stuart Wilkinson:

might be LinkedIn, a rule on their checks out and just direct message us.

Stuart Wilkinson:

We can get that way or email us at marketing @ rightway dot co dot nz

Stuart Wilkinson:

and all questions can come that way.

Stuart Wilkinson:

So if there's a particular thing that you go, Hey, Be great.

Stuart Wilkinson:

If you can talk about this or was there particular questions you want to

Stuart Wilkinson:

link to these one of these episodes?

Stuart Wilkinson:

It'd be really, really good to get those feedback, but, um, have

Stuart Wilkinson:

a great week and looking forward to speaking to you next week,

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