Transcripts
You're 12 yards from this bear.
Speaker B:Well, when I finally release, it's nine.
Speaker B:We get on this logging road and this really nice eight foot grizzly comes out and just stares us down.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden the south runs out onto the road and she looks right at us because we're standing there.
Speaker B:He thinks he's losing her to the other bear.
Speaker A:No shit.
Speaker B:So he comes tearing down the road at us.
Speaker B:I come to full draw, 50, 60 yards out and he's coming right at us.
Speaker B:My arrow thumped.
Speaker B:You could see him look at us.
Speaker A:All right, Alan.
Speaker B:Yo.
Speaker A:We okay.
Speaker A:You're an interesting one in so many different ways because I have been a secret creeper for years.
Speaker A:I don't know why I admitted that, but I've just watched you.
Speaker A:You're a very interesting person on so many different levels.
Speaker A:As far as one, you're a world class trophy hunter.
Speaker A:You kill some of the biggest animals I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker A:And that was a big reason I wanted to have you come on today.
Speaker A:Because I did a poll not too long ago and the audience, a lot of people said they wanted to hear some hunting stories.
Speaker A:And I feel since you were rolling through town, what better to ask a Boone and Crockett, pope and young or not?
Speaker A:You're more Pope and Young with the archery side of things.
Speaker B:I do both.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So you chase worldclass animals.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We could talk about the difference in Boone and Crockett and poping up and what they do, but I, I pay attention to both very carefully.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And so I want to be able to dive into trophy hunting because there's such a horrible stigma that comes with it.
Speaker A:Because I think through Disney as young kids, we're already grooming kids at a young age that.
Speaker B:Well, by the way, you know, the first hunting movie I ever saw was Bambi.
Speaker B:That was a good buck.
Speaker A:Was a solid.
Speaker A:I've said it before, I'm like, I'd hammer the out of that deer.
Speaker A:And so I want to go into that because, you know, we're just marked at these hillbillies.
Speaker A:We're shooting everything and, and nobody cares about the actual animal, the habitat, everything that goes into the.
Speaker A:What we love as outdoorsmen.
Speaker A:So I want to get into that.
Speaker A:And if we have time, I know you're on a time hack.
Speaker A:You a very meticulous person as far as you dive into things that I've watched and you master them.
Speaker A:And I'm sure you've mastered life through business and through family and a bunch of other stuff.
Speaker A:So you have times.
Speaker A:Aren't we all trying?
Speaker A:I'd like to kind of maybe get into that, but main part of this topic is I'd like to just.
Speaker A:I want to open up because I have such a vast audience from the women's side of things that follow a lot of our guests that have gone through pretty traumatic things to blue collar workers and I want to just be able to shed some light on that.
Speaker A:Not all hunters are these horrible, disgusting people that were made out to be because a lot of times I end up finding myself agreeing with these anti hunting groups as far as animal cruelty farms, chickens, how cows.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And I try to defend the hunting community as far as, hey, we don't agree with this either.
Speaker A:Like that's animal cruelty.
Speaker A:But we've been painted in such this picture as these crazy hillbilly just don't care about anything.
Speaker A:Which there is that demographic out there that gives us the bad name.
Speaker A:So here we are.
Speaker B:Oddly enough, trophy hunting is so misunderstood and it's as far away from that as you could possibly get even compared to hunting in general.
Speaker A:Okay, so before we dive in, yeah, normally we have a fresh loaf of bread, but this is a snap shot really quick.
Speaker A:You rolling through town, just landed, swooped you off the plane.
Speaker A:But I got an awesome shirt for you.
Speaker A:It's actually a tank top.
Speaker A:I know you're pretty fit, dude.
Speaker A:You're huge in the jiu jitsu.
Speaker A:His name is Chris.
Speaker A:He's the owner of Linear.
Speaker A:Something we do different on this podcast is I give law enforcement, first responders, small businesses opportunities to send us product to give guests as gifts so I could promote, you know, veterans, guys that are just trying to make it.
Speaker A:I remember how it is.
Speaker A:I mean we've all, everybody sitting room right now.
Speaker A:It's all started from nowhere and I try to give everybody an opportunity.
Speaker A:So we're going to send you home with a cool tank top from Linear N. He went, got and went through buds ended up getting injured right at the end and got dropped.
Speaker A:Whole entire life was based off of that.
Speaker A:So we ended up shifting gears and now he puts out some really high performance fitness apparel and I'll wear it with him out.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:All right, so just like we start every episode, bro.
Speaker A:Who are you?
Speaker A:Where are you from?
Speaker B:Alan Boland.
Speaker B:I live in Utah.
Speaker B:I grew up in Washington state.
Speaker B:My family, middle class family growing up.
Speaker B:My dad was a house painter and I grew up working my butt off.
Speaker B:I'll tell you like, it's, it's hard to describe the grind we went through.
Speaker B:Okay, as, like from seventh grade through, you know, after high school, you know, I worked every weekend, like 10, 12 hour days.
Speaker A:How many kids in your family?
Speaker B:Six of us.
Speaker A:How many boys?
Speaker B:Five, four boys, two girls.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where do you fall in this line?
Speaker B:I'm the oldest.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, so you're leading the path for all the siblings.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:So we just, we, we worked a lot.
Speaker B:So the summers, like, I didn't have a day off all summer long.
Speaker B:We would work a lot of times, seven days a week, all summer long, painting houses with my dad.
Speaker B:And you know, he eked out a great living for the family as a house painter.
Speaker B:Small business.
Speaker B:But I grew up, you know, I watched him.
Speaker B:I learned a lot about business from watching how they did things in a good way.
Speaker B:I learned the right things to do.
Speaker B:I always thought to myself, if he could just scale this, if he could just scale what he does here, he would make so much money.
Speaker B:Because the customer service, the quality, everything is there.
Speaker B:It's just not scaled zero advertising, all word of mouth.
Speaker B:And they just, they, you know, if they get too many jobs, they would just raise the price.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:That's how they would control.
Speaker B:Which was extremely smart.
Speaker B:He's controlling the supply and demand curve.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We talked about that earlier, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, so.
Speaker B:But that's how I grew up.
Speaker B:Oldest of 6 and I went to college in Idaho at Ricks College.
Speaker B:I wrestled a couple years there.
Speaker B:And then with just life happening, I got married.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker B:We got pregnant really early and my wife actually got sick and.
Speaker B:And I had to stop.
Speaker B:I had to stop doing things that I wanted to do.
Speaker B:I had to focus on school.
Speaker B:I had to work full time and go to school.
Speaker B:And then I, I ended up stopping school.
Speaker B:I was about 10 classes from graduating and I started the business and I still own that business.
Speaker A:How old were you when you started this business?
Speaker B:I would have been 24, 23.
Speaker A:And you're.
Speaker B:I'm 50.
Speaker A:Dang, man.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker A:Yeah, good for you.
Speaker B:It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker A:What's the business, if you don't mind me asking?
Speaker B:So it's a variety of home services.
Speaker B:We did home security for a long time, then we moved to home automation, like lights, locks, thermostats, video.
Speaker B:Then we've done a lot of solar.
Speaker B:Today we're doing a lot of roofing.
Speaker B:So today we're doing roofing and solar primarily, but it's direct sales.
Speaker B:I have guys that go out and knock on doors and then we fulfill service, interestingly enough, not too far off from what my dad did, but scaled up.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B: me service industry since the: Speaker B:So I guess I could say this is a, you know, multi generational.
Speaker B:I mean it's not the same company but you know, it's in the blood.
Speaker B:We get into people's homes and, and do things that they need us to do.
Speaker A:How many sales reps do you have?
Speaker B:About a hundred.
Speaker A:Was not expected.
Speaker B:Oh really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, so you.
Speaker A:Okay, so this is a.
Speaker A:Are you nationwide then?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean we've, we've, we've worked in over 25 states.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker B:Currently, currently I'm in five good for you branches.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker A:Okay, so what's that?
Speaker A:Okay, so as, as somebody that's been in a owned your own business for 25 plus years, what's been the hardest thing?
Speaker B:Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker B:You know, they.
Speaker B:Business, when you're in business, you're almost always out of money.
Speaker B:Cash.
Speaker B:Cash is critical.
Speaker B:I mean you can be making money but not have the cash to.
Speaker B:I mean, you hear this, of course.
Speaker B:I mean you hear like Jansen Wong talking about like Nvidia is always 30 days from going out of business.
Speaker B:And obviously that's one of the biggest companies in the world.
Speaker B:But cash is king.
Speaker B:And so there's been so many times where it feels like there's no way through.
Speaker B:Like you're not.
Speaker B:I've closed big deals.
Speaker B:Like, you know, I mean I've closed $50 million bank deals and multiple of them to finance the business, to like retain like recurring revenue customers.
Speaker B:I don't want to get too complicated with this, but the point is there's times where it didn't look like those deals were going to close.
Speaker B:Like one of the, one of the was during COVID they backed out of a deal we needed to have happen because of COVID and literally I thought we were going out of business.
Speaker B:I thought that was it.
Speaker B:And there's been so many times I'm like, well, it was a good ride, but we just kept pushing forward and you just get up the next day and you.
Speaker B:And sometimes you feel like you're going to war and the stress is so intense you can't even sleep at night.
Speaker B:You get a few hours of sleep and you just go back to the office and you work another 12 hour day and somehow you eek through.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think that would be the message I would send is it's never over.
Speaker B:It's like it's.
Speaker B:Maybe it is over.
Speaker B:At some point, but I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker A:Well, I feel I preach about it a lot, especially when I mentor young entrepreneurs and guys that are.
Speaker A:We'll just take the podcast, for instance.
Speaker A:I got.
Speaker A:I help a lot of people start and get going on their podcasts, and then they'll get going.
Speaker A:I do Nothing.
Speaker A:Nothing.
Speaker A:Nobody's 200 views.
Speaker A:And then I send them mine.
Speaker A:I'm like, hey, bro, yeah, here's February to February of our very first year, and there's not even a blip on the radar.
Speaker A:And you know, and then now I'm.
Speaker A:I bring my kid in house and now she's watching this, and I'm like, oh, it.
Speaker A:It's one thing, you know, to have pressure of being.
Speaker A:Being a business owner, but then when you start adding friends and family to it, that.
Speaker A:Not saying she depends on me, but I want to her to see success.
Speaker A:And it's just.
Speaker A:It's never quitting.
Speaker A:That's where it's.
Speaker A:And I hate preaching this because I've always been one of those guys.
Speaker A:Like, oh, it's a mindset.
Speaker A:It's a mindset.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden, one day it just.
Speaker A:Like, there's this little.
Speaker A:Where you're like, hey, we can't quit.
Speaker A:This isn't.
Speaker A:Not even an option.
Speaker A:And then that.
Speaker A:You start believing that.
Speaker A:And so it's like, okay, well, this whole month sucked.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We barely got any views.
Speaker A:Downloads are.
Speaker A:Are way down.
Speaker A:Or mon.
Speaker A:We're not even monetized.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:Everything sucks.
Speaker A:Like, and you just want to quit, but, like, that's not an option.
Speaker A:Then you just keep.
Speaker A:Even though you feel that you're just doing it for nothing.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden, a month after you get a little blip on the radar and you're like, holy, we broke a thousand downloads.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then the next month it jumps to fight.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:Then that.
Speaker A:And I explain it as that snowball on the top of the mountain that just.
Speaker A:You can't notice it moving.
Speaker A:But then one day it just plops and then that momentum gets going and that's.
Speaker A:But that could take two years, five years, eight years into a business.
Speaker A:But I feel the majority of people quit before that part because they get to those hurdles and they're like, oh, this is it.
Speaker A:This is the end.
Speaker A:But going to pop smoke and then move on to the next adventure.
Speaker A:But instead of probably what you've done a thousand times over the last 20 something years, how do we pivot?
Speaker A:Yeah, how.
Speaker A:Okay, how do we make up for this loss.
Speaker A:Okay, we need to push harder on this department.
Speaker A:Hey, this is trending right now.
Speaker A:Roofs.
Speaker A:We need to really start hitting the payment on putting in new.
Speaker A:Hit these old subdivisions that these guys roofs are probably due.
Speaker A:Let's start door knocking.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Well, there's not anything we do in our lives, or at least I'll speak for my life.
Speaker B:There's nothing I do that's not like that.
Speaker B:You know, when I started jiu jitsu, like, I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker B:And I just started training six days a week.
Speaker B:And I went every single day, every week after week after week.
Speaker B:And I wanted to win tournaments.
Speaker B:And, you know, I didn't always win in the beginning.
Speaker B:And then it just kept going and going and going.
Speaker B:And even though it feels like you're not getting anywhere, it's like, it's like a drop a day in some.
Speaker B:And it just.
Speaker A:In a bucket.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it just slowly fills up and you can't see it.
Speaker B:And I think so many people, they need to see results.
Speaker B:And we can get into this with trophy hunting, too, because, like, a lot of people just shoot something because they want to see a result, you know, And I'm like, well, I'm not going to shoot until I find this absolute monster or whatever.
Speaker B:And it's the same thing.
Speaker B:It's like moving forward a drop at a time, believing, having faith that someday it's going to turn into something.
Speaker B:And it may not, but you don't.
Speaker B:The only way you can ever find out is if you do what you need to do every day.
Speaker B:I think that sometimes when we set big goals, they can actually become a distraction because you think about the goal.
Speaker B:In fact, I've heard recently that neurologists say that goal setting can be negative because we give ourself a dopamine hit.
Speaker B:When we talk about the goal, like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make $10 million.
Speaker B:And you make yourself feel good by saying that, but you forget to connect that back to the daily actions that.
Speaker A:Take you there, and you start dreaming of that.
Speaker B:Yeah, you think about that.
Speaker B:But what do you gotta do every day?
Speaker B:What do you gotta do every day to get there?
Speaker B:And daily actions are the key to accomplishing any of this stuff.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's where I, I.
Speaker A:And you saying that is hilarious because I've worked with so many guys.
Speaker A:Like, we're turning this into this dude.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:Dude, two years from now, it's ten Million dollar company.
Speaker B:They love hearing that.
Speaker A:And that's all they talk about they love hearing.
Speaker A:And then you're four years in, you're like, okay, what are we doing to get to this point?
Speaker A:And it's funny you say that because I, I, my wife and I talk about that all the time.
Speaker A:It's like, okay, here's our goal, but let's take little bites, little bites.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:How do we accomplish this to get to the next level?
Speaker A:Okay, what's the next.
Speaker A:Instead of just starting here, here's my end goal.
Speaker A:There's a million check marks on the way.
Speaker A:And just start filling those boxes and just start checking them off.
Speaker A:It's interesting that you say that.
Speaker A:Okay, so business wise, real quick, what's been one of the biggest learning lessons of having a business for 25 years?
Speaker A:Hmm.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, I want to, I want to think of the right thing.
Speaker B:I've learned so much.
Speaker A:A hundred percent.
Speaker B:Um, I mean, I, I've learned, I've learned that bigger is not always better.
Speaker A:Why is that?
Speaker B:Well, it's like back in the old, when the, during the dot com boom, the joke was we may have negative margins, but we'll make up for it with volume.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Like, a negative number times a million is still a negative number.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, you know, I would rather have, you know, highly profitable business that's not doing as much as one that's like, out of control.
Speaker B:And I've been there, I've been there where it's, I mentioned we've been in 25 states.
Speaker B:Like, I've, I, I at one point had hundreds of sales reps and over a hundred operations people.
Speaker B:And we weren't making great money doing that.
Speaker B:It was inefficient because it was so big, it became inefficient.
Speaker B:So I have learned that, you know, you have to look at your unit economics and make sure that you have scaled the business correctly.
Speaker A:Where I feel you could probably get way into the weeds really fast.
Speaker A:Because I would say now with social media, the image of everything, everybody immediately.
Speaker A:And you hear all these guys, we're going to 10x you, we're going to 10x you.
Speaker A:And I've been part of a lot of stuff where it's like, do we want a 10x?
Speaker A:How many problems is this going to bring in?
Speaker A:Not in a way that you're hindering your growth of your own business, but is that the immediate goal or what if we 2x it now?
Speaker A:We raise the price a little bit.
Speaker A:We 2x what we're doing.
Speaker A:So we're making more money, but we're really not doing a ton of extra work or bringing on all these other states or employees to do that.
Speaker B:You got to think about your quality of life, too, because there are two assets we have.
Speaker B:One is our capital, our money.
Speaker B:The other is our time.
Speaker B:So if you're making tons of money and you have no time, why are you making the money?
Speaker B:It doesn't make any sense to.
Speaker B:To make millions or whatever you're after and have zero time to enjoy that.
Speaker A:Or with your family or wife.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Okay, so let me ask you this then.
Speaker A:This is a question.
Speaker A:I go to a lot of these networking events and I sit down with these big guys and they used to work.
Speaker A:Oh, I partnered with Michael Jordan on Uber.
Speaker A:Whatever.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I've talked to them all.
Speaker A:One question I always ask them is, how did you get to this level of wealth but also have a relationship with your family?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is that where you tie that in?
Speaker A:Is that a balance that you've.
Speaker A:You've found hard or easy over the years?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I get.
Speaker B:So, I do like Q&As on my social.
Speaker B:And probably the number one question I get asked is, how do you balance it all?
Speaker B:And I've, I've frankly never had a hard time with that.
Speaker B:Because first of all, families first.
Speaker B:That is the, the first thing that, that goes off the.
Speaker B:Well, let's back up.
Speaker B:So if, if I'm going to look at my day 24 hours, I'm going to take 16 and take it off because I have to sleep and I have to work.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So I have 16 hours work and sleep.
Speaker B:And that does.
Speaker B:This doesn't include weekends.
Speaker B:These are weekdays.
Speaker B:So that gives me 24 minus 16.
Speaker B:I have eight hours left.
Speaker B:So if I spend three hours eating and with my family, that still gives me five hours.
Speaker B:So I go to jiu jitsu for an hour and a half.
Speaker B:I shoot my bow for an hour.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I still have three hours.
Speaker B:Like, what are you doing with your time if you don't have time?
Speaker B:Like, I can do everything I want to do in 24 hours.
Speaker B:You know what they're doing?
Speaker B:They're watching sports and they're scrolling social.
Speaker B:And I find those two things to be the absolute biggest waste of time on earth.
Speaker B:And you may love your sports, whatever, people love their sports.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, you're watching somebody else do something.
Speaker B:Would you rather do it yourself or watch somebody do something?
Speaker A:We hear it all the time.
Speaker A:I don't have time.
Speaker A:But you had time to scroll for three hours.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:No, I'm, I'm telling you, man, it's.
Speaker B:I've been there.
Speaker B:Like, I'm like, what did I just do at the last hour of my life?
Speaker B:I mean, I got sucked into the algorithm that knew exactly what I wanted to see.
Speaker A:And it's getting good.
Speaker B:It's dangerous.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker B:I mean, I love scrolling Instagram because it shows me the things I love to see, but I know I can't.
Speaker A:So are you the type of dude that has your.
Speaker A:Are you awake up at the exact same time?
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:What do they call that?
Speaker B:They have the word for that.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The morning.
Speaker A:The ritual, guys.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do they call it, though?
Speaker B:It's like a.
Speaker B:It's like a common.
Speaker B:You need to have your process every morning, but there's a specific word for it.
Speaker B:I can't believe I just said, like, the structure or.
Speaker B:Structure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Whatever it is.
Speaker B:That's not the right word, but somebody want to look that up?
Speaker B:What am I saying?
Speaker B:Routine.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Routine.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm not a routine guy.
Speaker B:Like, I like doing things at different times every day.
Speaker B:Sometimes I train jiu jitsu at 6am, sometimes I do 10am sometimes I do 6pm sometimes I lift in the morning.
Speaker B:Sometimes I lift at night.
Speaker B:The only thing I do pretty consistently is I sauna at night.
Speaker B:Just because it's sort of easier to remember, but I don't feel like routines make versatile people.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:Thank God.
Speaker A:Because that's been one of my biggest battles as a family here is because I feel we do.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker A:We waste a lot of time, but it's.
Speaker A:That's our choice because we're just spending family time.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:That's good, though.
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:So it's not like a big negative.
Speaker A:But I hound the wife.
Speaker A:Like, we have to get into a routine because I feel our life is just so wild chaos that we'll lose track or.
Speaker A:We needed to send this three days ago, and I forgot.
Speaker A:So how do you balance it?
Speaker A:Are you a calendar guy where you're marking out, or you've just done this long enough, Found the routine for you.
Speaker B:I have five or six things that I have to do every day that I have to fit in.
Speaker B:I just do them at different times.
Speaker A:Got it.
Speaker B:So, you know, I'm gonna.
Speaker B:I'm gonna train every day.
Speaker B:I'm gonna lift three times a week.
Speaker B:I'm gonna.
Speaker B:You know, I'm gonna go to work, obviously, every day.
Speaker B:I'm gonna post something on Social every day.
Speaker B:And so those things, I just make sure I get done, and it's not always at the same time.
Speaker B:I'm just not a routine guy.
Speaker B:Like, I don't, I don't like getting up and being like, beholden to some routine.
Speaker B:I just find that my brain doesn't work well that way.
Speaker B:I need to be a little more random.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker B:But I still make sure I get it done.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I, that's how I, I feel because I, I work with, you know, in our.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:I have a community with a bunch of men.
Speaker A:And some of these guys are so up every day at this time, eat at this time, out the door at this time.
Speaker A:And I, I, if my life depended on it, there, I, there's no way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm not into it.
Speaker A:They can't.
Speaker B:You can be very productive.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Without doing that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:It will.
Speaker B:Some people need it.
Speaker B:Probably.
Speaker B:I think everybody's probably built differently for sure.
Speaker A:But now when you get on social, you see the, the grind.
Speaker A:Bros gotta get up at five, ice bath, run six miles, gym.
Speaker A:And then they get the, you know, for this routine.
Speaker A:And I sit there, I'm like, you got kids?
Speaker A:Do you got a wife?
Speaker A:I mean, like, are you just an influencer that's creating content all day?
Speaker A:Because there's a real world out there of real problems.
Speaker A:Because now you got to go to the doctors, you got a dent, your kid's sick, you got to drop off.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:There's just life.
Speaker B:Well, that's, that's where I, that's where I get back into.
Speaker B:It doesn't make versatile people.
Speaker B:So I can handle any sort of chaos or whatever, like some emergency at work.
Speaker B:It doesn't throw me off because I'm used to doing things in random orders.
Speaker B:Like if, if I wake up in the morning and I see 50 text messages about an emergency, it's no big deal.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just handled that.
Speaker B:It's not like I wasn't planning on doing 50 things this morning in a particular order.
Speaker B:It doesn't throw me out of a.
Speaker B:Any sort of.
Speaker B:It doesn't put me in a funk.
Speaker B:I can handle it, no problem.
Speaker A:And it's probably a much easier living more of a controlled chaos life rather than some rigid, structured life, because then when a fire pops up, then you're just.
Speaker A:You're snowballing.
Speaker A:Everything's just almost tumbling out of control at that point.
Speaker A:And then that adds even more onto your plate because now you're trying to get the, the train back on the track.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that the stress level for, for somebody who's very structured when things don't go as planned.
Speaker B:I see that I have a daughter who's very structured.
Speaker B:She's extremely disciplined and structured, and I admire her for that.
Speaker B:But I do see that when things don't go her way, she gets super stressed and bugged about it.
Speaker B:I don't deal with that.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's probably a big trade off.
Speaker A:That's the mindset of the people that get overwhelmed.
Speaker A:They need the structure versus somebody that probably look at our life and absolutely come unglued.
Speaker A:If a structured person, if they were in our home for a day because we're night owl people, that's when we get a huge chunk of our work done.
Speaker B:Bed at a different time every single night.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I couldn't even tell you what it's between.
Speaker A: dnight, it's probably between: Speaker A:But then at the same time, I'm sleeping until whenever I want because that's the life we've built.
Speaker A:And that's my, that's my schedule.
Speaker B:You need your sleep.
Speaker A:Some days I'm up at 7, some days I'm up at 9.
Speaker A:And that's nice because obviously we.
Speaker A:I know it needs to get done, but I'm not stressing on it because I'm like, God, we're getting to bed late.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker A:We just sent out 15 emails, had to do all this research.
Speaker A:Now it's 2 in the morning.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, I don't need to be up at 7 because that's not my routine.
Speaker A:I'll just figure it out and we'll.
Speaker A:I'll get to the gym, I'll get the work done, we'll get the dog walked, whatever we got to do.
Speaker B:I. I think it is.
Speaker B:There's a risk, though, that some folks that if they don't have things scheduled, they do end up scrolling or playing video games or whatever.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:There is like, I do track things.
Speaker B:Like I know, like how much time I spend on Instagram.
Speaker B:I look at the reports.
Speaker B:Like, I do hold myself accountable.
Speaker B:It's not like I just wake up and go, whatever.
Speaker B:The way the wind blows me, that's where I'm going.
Speaker B:I make sure I get my crap done.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, let's shift gears into this trophy.
Speaker B:Hunting, because now we're talking.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess.
Speaker A:First, what got in you?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:How'd you get into the hunting industry or just into hunting in general?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's great question, man.
Speaker B:So when my dad didn't hunt.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so when I was A kid, my grandpa would tell me hunting stories.
Speaker B:And my grandpa grew up in eastern Washington, believe it or not.
Speaker B:Like, when he was a kid, his family, they were migrant farm workers during the Depression.
Speaker B:Like, that's as low on the totem pole.
Speaker B:They lived in tents and followed the harvest.
Speaker B:Crazy.
Speaker B:My grandpa dropped out of school in fourth grade, and so they did a lot of hunting to, like, survive for sure.
Speaker B:And he told me these stories of like, shooting elk and shooting a.
Speaker B:Shooting carp out of a lake and these cool stories that just like, they fascinated me.
Speaker B:And so When I was 11 or 12, 11, I think, we had this magazine drive at school.
Speaker B:We were supposed to sell magazine subscriptions, and I personally bought the Outdoor Life subscription.
Speaker B:And for years I read every issue cover to cover, and I was so fascinated with these stories.
Speaker B:And I would ask my grandpa tell me more hunting stories, and he would.
Speaker B:He'd tell me these stories sometimes over and over again, and I just loved it.
Speaker B:And I would.
Speaker B:My dad didn't hunt.
Speaker B:I mean, I would ask him to take.
Speaker B:He did take me like, walking around a couple of times with a shot.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, he didn't know what he was doing.
Speaker B:I know what he did.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We didn't kill anything.
Speaker B:And then I got into wrestling in high school, started wrestling.
Speaker B:It was my life.
Speaker B:And I wrestled in high school and a couple years of college.
Speaker B:And when I.
Speaker B:When I stopped wrestling, I started thinking about hunting again.
Speaker B:I was like, okay.
Speaker B:That is the thing that fascinated me the most my entire life was hunting.
Speaker B:And I just started that by myself.
Speaker B:I knew a couple buddies that had hunted a little bit, but they weren't like.
Speaker B:I mean, they weren't like, way into it, but I'm like, hey, man, let's go hunting.
Speaker B:They're like, okay, we can try.
Speaker B:And we would go out hunting.
Speaker B:And I remember I shot my first year with a rifle.
Speaker B:I was 24 years old, I guess, and it was life changing.
Speaker A:Where was this at?
Speaker B:It was in.
Speaker B:In Utah, down south.
Speaker B:Fountain Green, I believe, was the closest town.
Speaker B:And we, we hiked way back in and, And.
Speaker B:And we.
Speaker B:And we had some bad experiences.
Speaker B:We hunted as much as we could.
Speaker B:The rifle season was only like eight days long.
Speaker B:You know, we.
Speaker B:Like so many hunters, it sounded like an artillery going off.
Speaker B:I was, in some ways, I was disillusioned.
Speaker B:Like, man, this isn't too cool.
Speaker B:Like, this is like just people everywhere.
Speaker A:War zone.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But we stuck with it.
Speaker B:And I think, like, later that, like, as a Thursday of the next week, we went in there and there Was very many people.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And we hiked super far back in and we see this buck off in the distance and it's all frosty and.
Speaker B:And this, this buck and I had.
Speaker B:Oh, another thing is we had missed a bunch of shots too.
Speaker B:And we had like this.
Speaker B:I found out my, my Tasco scope was like.
Speaker B:And so I went in and I like threw down the money as like a poor newlywed for a Leopold scope and got like the mount.
Speaker B:And I cited in that Wednesday night I, I talked the pistol range into.
Speaker B:Let me shoot it.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker B:Yeah, and so I shot it and like shot like a 1 inch low at 25 yards or whatever.
Speaker B:I'm like, ah, we'll see what happens.
Speaker A:We'll give her health.
Speaker B:So anyway, we went out the next day and we see this buck and we had missed like easy shots at like little spikes, you know, and we see this buck and it's out there at like 250 yards and he stopped and he like turns a little bit and he's like, you can shoot him.
Speaker B:And I'm like on my knee.
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah, I'm shoot him.
Speaker B:I squeeze it off and he just drops.
Speaker B:I couldn't believe it because we had, I don't know, I just had kind of lost faith and I had like almost thought like is hunting for me.
Speaker B:Like this is not like when I'm missing these shots and people are shooting all over the place.
Speaker B:It's just like this chaos.
Speaker B:Like it wasn't very fun the first couple days we went on that opening weekend.
Speaker B:But that moment, like we had the mountain to ourselves and I one shot killed actually a five by five, four by four thigh guards.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:First deer.
Speaker B:First deer.
Speaker B:I mean it wasn't like, it's like 140 inch deer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But to me it was the biggest thing I'd ever seen in my life for sure.
Speaker B:And I walked up to that buck, putting my hands.
Speaker B:I, I just, I mean, you know, people say like, oh, other than when I had kids or.
Speaker B:No, this was better than that.
Speaker B:I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker B:But it was incredible.
Speaker B:The moment, that moment like when I laid my hands on my first buck, I was like, this is, this is what I'm.
Speaker A:You were hooked, huh?
Speaker B:This is it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's all it took.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What was it okay for?
Speaker A:So from there now you got the, you got the bug.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Did you stick rifle for a while before?
Speaker A:Because you're huge.
Speaker A:Archery.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So here's what got me.
Speaker B:So I actually that next Year I can't remember.
Speaker B:I guess I odd or drew or I can't remember what it was.
Speaker B:But I had a rifle tag and I heard about the extended archery season in Utah.
Speaker B:That last light you at that time, you could have like four months from like August 20th through the end of December.
Speaker B:So more than four months.
Speaker B:I was like, I could hunt every weekend, every day.
Speaker B:I have off for four months.
Speaker B:I don't care if it's harder to kill something.
Speaker B:I want to be in the mountains because this rifle season is only eight days long.
Speaker B:So it was just the fact that there was a four month season.
Speaker B:That's the only reason I switched archery.
Speaker A:No, originally.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And so I remember turning in my rifle tag and trading it for a bow tag, which apparently you could do back then.
Speaker B:This is a long time ago.
Speaker B:Yeah, whatever.
Speaker B:25 Years ago.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And then I went and bought a bow at a bow shop and I just started shooting every day and I'm like, this is actually really cool.
Speaker B:I would watch the arrow fly.
Speaker B:Like the flight of an arrow is a gorgeous thing.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker B:You know and I, I mean I remember when I first started, I could hardly hit my target.
Speaker B:And then the groups got smaller and smaller and smaller until I was shooting pretty good.
Speaker B:And then I went out bow hunting that year.
Speaker A:How'd that go?
Speaker B:I killed, I killed a doe and it was amazing.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's.
Speaker A:There's a lot of things that for firsts in life but when you.
Speaker A:I hate archery hunting.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker A:I absolutely hate archery hunting.
Speaker A:Hey, I kill a lot.
Speaker B:It's fair.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker A:I know enough about it with a bow.
Speaker A:But I hate it.
Speaker A:I just, it's that you can taste, you can taste it and you need a thousand stars to align for you to just release.
Speaker A:And then there's another thousand stars that need to align as that arrows traveling through the air.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I, I have a very like most archer's.
Speaker A:I have a love especially hate relationship with archery hunting.
Speaker A:But there's nothing that you will ever forget than watching your first arrow just.
Speaker B:Into something and hearing that sound that.
Speaker A:Oh, it's the cleanest sound.
Speaker A:And so it's this rush and it'll hook you but then there's guys like probably you that it just consumes and then, then your whole life is just about archery hunting.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was a dough, huh?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean that was I, I there at that time.
Speaker B:The buck season, I believe it ended December or November 30th or whatever.
Speaker B:And then on December 1st, so I was chasing these bucks and I. I hunted them enough where there was like specific bucks like this, you know, I had stocked this particular buck a bunch.
Speaker B:And so on the, the next day, after the buck season ended, I went doe hunting.
Speaker B:And of course, this giant three point that was literally a 30 inch wide three point that I had hunted over and over and over again, stepped out in front of me at 9 yards broadside and had no idea he's looking off the mountain.
Speaker B:I'm at full draw.
Speaker B:I just drew just instinctively right?
Speaker B:And I remember all of my pins were on his chest and I'm just like, are I. I feel like throwing up, like after how, how many times I had hunted these deer and so whatever, I let him walk away.
Speaker B:And then later that afternoon, I shot a doe, you know, a mule deer, doe spot and stock.
Speaker B:50 Yard shot my first year bow hunting.
Speaker B:And it meant a lot to me.
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker A:There's a rush, at least for me, that comes with archery hunting that is really hard to find anywhere else.
Speaker A:Even if it.
Speaker A:There's something about being on the ground.
Speaker A:There's a bull coming, screaming in your face, you got cows piling by you.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You can't even hear anything because your ears are just maxed with adrenaline ringing your drawback.
Speaker A:And then everything goes to shit.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker A:But that peak and that taste of just a little bit you almost lined up is what sucks me back in.
Speaker A:Every single year.
Speaker A:I'm like, all right, I'll get another archery tag, I guess.
Speaker A:And then I'm up there chasing elk all September and just loving life and nothing.
Speaker A:You know, you're either successful or you're not.
Speaker A:But it's still it.
Speaker A:The rush that I get where I.
Speaker A:With a rifle.
Speaker A:I mean, I've seen enough giant animals hit the ground and through a scope.
Speaker A:And I don't ever get a rush in a scope.
Speaker A:It always comes afterward.
Speaker A:But there's something when you could see that your broadhead is just going crazy.
Speaker A:You can't even hardly draw and this thing's coming and crashing.
Speaker A:I mean, it's a whole other.
Speaker B:There's a difference.
Speaker B:There's a huge difference.
Speaker B:Being 30 yards from something and being 250 yards from 100%.
Speaker B:I mean that, you know, like anything you do, if you breathe too hard, they'll hear it.
Speaker B:You move an inch, they'll hear it.
Speaker B:And that, that gives you almost anxiety for sure.
Speaker B:And it's like it's.
Speaker B:It all builds up and then you add to it that you have to engage your muscles to draw your weapon.
Speaker B:And so you have to make movement.
Speaker B:But you also have to like use your muscles.
Speaker B:That's why some guys, they go to.
Speaker B:I've seen it where they go draw their bow and they can't draw their bow.
Speaker B:And because you would think the adrenaline would help, it actually helps me.
Speaker B:Some guys freeze and they can't draw their bow when they're close to fascinating.
Speaker B:And then you have to, you know, you can't just.
Speaker B:Your heart's pounding and you're nervous and you can't just stick your gun on a 5,000 pound rock.
Speaker B:That rock doesn't shake.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So that's how you know even rifle hunters when they're nervous.
Speaker B:Okay, put it on the rock.
Speaker B:You're not, it's not going to shake.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Bo.
Speaker B:You have to hold it while you're shaking and your heart's pounding out of your chest and you have to make a good shot.
Speaker A:And you probably with a primitive weapon ran up or down a mountain cross that you brush.
Speaker B:Bow hunting isn't like twice as hard.
Speaker B:It's like 20 times.
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker A:And that's where I tell a lot of white coat whitetail clients.
Speaker A:What do I need to prepare for for the fall?
Speaker A:Bam.
Speaker A:And I'm like, I want you to draw as heavy as you can because your whitetail, you're hunting elk.
Speaker A:You're going from whitetail to elk.
Speaker A:We always, we know how that ends.
Speaker A:But I'm like, just run around your yard Bent over for 200 yards with a pack on, stand up, draw and center punch something.
Speaker A:I'm like, that's what you need to be practicing.
Speaker A:Because they're so used to, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:They're in a tree stand here it comes down, it comes down the perfect path and they got their rub and the scrape and man.
Speaker A:And you're drawn.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they got everything ranged.
Speaker A:And I'm like, everything that you know that you've been raised on east coast archery hunting.
Speaker A:I go, I don't want to hear anything.
Speaker A:I don't care what you've accomplished.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:You're in a.
Speaker A:You went from JV to varsity out west.
Speaker A:And then you get the guy and everything lines up and there it is.
Speaker A:And they're, they're dying.
Speaker A:And then pomp.
Speaker A:They got punch something at 30 yards and you're like, God bless.
Speaker A:You're like, I don't know what happened.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's L cut and archery.
Speaker A:El cut is what happened.
Speaker B:It's just different.
Speaker A:But it's, it's nothing you'll ever forget.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's your favorite thing to archery hunt?
Speaker B:Well, I'm obsessed with deer.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Like general, like mule deer, blacktail, kuzdeer, whitetail.
Speaker B:I love them all just because they're the wariest game animal on, on the planet.
Speaker B:They, you know, I've, I've hunted everything, you know, sheep, goats, caribou, moose.
Speaker B:Like bears, nothing is wary like a deer.
Speaker B:They notice everything.
Speaker B:They, they have their IQ to stay alive.
Speaker B:Their instincts are just another level.
Speaker B:And their antlers are tremendously unique and interesting.
Speaker B:Like to me, six point bull elk, they bore me.
Speaker B:Like, dude, every six point looks like a six point.
Speaker B:Like elk are fun to hunt because of the rut and the calling and all that.
Speaker B:They're very fun.
Speaker B:There's nothing more fun.
Speaker B:But as far as the appreciation of the trophy, I'm a deer guy.
Speaker B:Like I love deer.
Speaker A:I respect that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But if you want to know, like my favorite thing to hunt, it's anything in the mountains.
Speaker B:Anything that I can put on my backpack and get dropped and go for 10 days with everything I need in my pack.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:So sheep, goats, some types of caribou, mule deer.
Speaker B:Their hunts, like hunts like that are my favorite types of hunts.
Speaker A:No, I love it.
Speaker A:How often are you getting to do the stuff like that?
Speaker B:Every year.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker B:Sometimes multiple times a year.
Speaker B:So like this year I'm, I'll be in Alaska here in a month.
Speaker B:Brown bear hunting backpack.
Speaker B:Brown bear hunting.
Speaker A:Okay, let's talk brown bear hunting.
Speaker B:Because 20 days, man, to be there.
Speaker A:20 Days, that's my dream.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:She says, she goes, dad, one day when I'm running my own business, I'm buying you, I'm buying you a bear, a brown bear hunt.
Speaker A:And because bears, you obviously saw the, the skulls.
Speaker B:There's nothing like a ten foot brown bear.
Speaker B:They're the most incredible animal on earth.
Speaker A:How many browns have you killed?
Speaker B:I've killed, I've killed one brown, two grizzlies and I've been in on about 10.
Speaker B:Like I've been there.
Speaker A:No shit.
Speaker A:There have been any close calls with those because bear hunts, those type of bear hunts.
Speaker A:Quick.
Speaker B:There's been close calls.
Speaker A:Like what?
Speaker B:Well, my grizzly, which is an absolute monster mountain grizzly.
Speaker B:So just to like, so you know, like, and I'm sure you know, but so everybody knows like a coastal bear is more mellow because they eat fish and they, so they have, have a high protein diet without having to run down moose and kill them.
Speaker A:Got it.
Speaker B:So in mountain grizzly makes his living killing things that run from them.
Speaker B:So they are fighters.
Speaker B:Like they know how to tackle something and tear it to pieces and kill it.
Speaker B:These coastal bears, they fish so like it's not like in their instincts as much in their deep DNA to like run you down and kill you.
Speaker B:So a mountain grizzly is in my opinion the most dangerous animal in North America.
Speaker B:Without question.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, by far for sure.
Speaker B:And so now normally the biggest bears in the world are on the coast because of the high protein diet, the easy protein.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Somehow we managed to kill the biggest bear that's ever been killed in British Columbia with a bow.
Speaker B:This thing is huge.
Speaker B:Like Boone and Crockett mine.
Speaker B:So Boone and Crockett's 24 inches.
Speaker B:This bear's 26 inch skull.
Speaker B:Like he beats Boone and Crockett by two inches.
Speaker B:And we killed him on the east slope of the Rockies.
Speaker B:That's how far away he was from salmon.
Speaker B:Like the water doesn't even run that way.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So this is a mountain grizzly that is a huge like just monstrosity.
Speaker B:Like the king of the mountain.
Speaker B:Like biggest bear I've ever seen.
Speaker B:Like per.
Speaker B:I mean brown.
Speaker B:I've seen brown bears that are bigger, but that's a different species.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So anyway, we're, we, we see this bear with this sow and he makes her look like a cub.
Speaker B:And where.
Speaker B:You want to hear the story, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is that okay?
Speaker B:This is when I almost died over here.
Speaker A:You almost died?
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I want to hear this story, bro.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:This is wild chaos.
Speaker A:I mean just sit back and I.
Speaker B:Wouldn't imagine you'd be interested in this.
Speaker A:Yeah, No, I don't want to hear how you almost d. On his giant grizzly.
Speaker A:Huh?
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:Yeah, that sounds boring.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So we see this bear and there's actually this, this valley we're, we're glassing.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's quite a few grizzlies.
Speaker B:Like a surprising number of grizzlies.
Speaker B:And we figured out why.
Speaker B:I'll tell you why.
Speaker B:But as the story goes.
Speaker B:But so we, we finally, we see a couple of boars and then we finally see this monster.
Speaker B:And he makes everything else on the mountain look tiny.
Speaker B:And so you know, the sow literally looks like a cub.
Speaker B:But we know it's a sow.
Speaker B:We know he's breeding her.
Speaker B:So we, we get on the stock, we get on them like it's, it's a, it's a two hour grind.
Speaker B:We're completely out of breath.
Speaker B:We finally get up they're actually on this deactivated logging road.
Speaker B:But we cut up through the timber to get there as a shortcut.
Speaker B:And we get on this logging, logging road and we're I don't know, probably 800 yards from them.
Speaker B:And this really nice like eight foot grizzly comes out and just stares us down.
Speaker B:And he comes at us and we're having to wave our.
Speaker B:Because we want this.
Speaker A:So you're not trying to spook the big bear?
Speaker B:Yeah, we're trying to scare him away without getting eaten.
Speaker B:But he is surprisingly aggressive.
Speaker B:Like will not leave us alone.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker B:I mean bears are scared of you, right?
Speaker B:This bear would not leave.
Speaker B:We're waving at him like trying to make enough noise where it spooks him without spooking the other one.
Speaker B:We finally get rid of him and so we keep sneaking down this two track logging road and we, we get to the point where he's going to be.
Speaker B:It's a long straightaway and he's not there.
Speaker B:So we're standing there, standing in the middle of the road and all of a sudden the south runs out onto the road in front of us about 200 yards away.
Speaker B:And she looks right at us because we're standing there.
Speaker B:We weren't expecting it like crap.
Speaker B:And so we just decide like she can see us.
Speaker B:So we decide to kneel down in the little ditch right there.
Speaker B:And then he follows her up so he never saw us.
Speaker B:But she's freaked out because of us, right?
Speaker B:And she's looking the same direction.
Speaker B:As who?
Speaker B:The other bear.
Speaker B:So she comes down to check us out.
Speaker B:He thinks he's losing her to the other bear.
Speaker B:So he comes tearing down the road at us.
Speaker B:I come to full draw when he's I don't know, 50, 60 yards out and he's coming right at us like.
Speaker A:Are you talking on a good pace?
Speaker B:At first.
Speaker B:Then he slowed to a walk.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So he's padding along at a walk.
Speaker B:She's trying to figure out what's going on.
Speaker B:He sees us.
Speaker B:He sees her.
Speaker B:She actually circled above the road in kind of the, the brush to like get a look at us.
Speaker B:She was 10 yards above us in the brush which not we didn't know at that moment we saw her after.
Speaker B:But I come to full draw and he won't stop.
Speaker B:So my business partner, this is an area that I outfitted, right?
Speaker B:So it was my, my company, my business partner Spike Lewis At 20s he starts making this noise, right?
Speaker B:To get him to stop because he just wouldn't stop.
Speaker B:And I remember his muzzles, like, hanging in front of his vitals, and I can't even shoot.
Speaker B:And he gets to like nine yards, actually right around 12, probably he's like, better do something.
Speaker A:Like, you're 12 yards from this bear.
Speaker B:Well, when I finally release, it's nine.
Speaker B:And I'm trying to, like, aim around his nose to hit him in the front of the chest.
Speaker B:And what I saw when my arrow thumped is blood come out of his nose.
Speaker B:That's what I saw.
Speaker B:I thought, oh, I hit him in the nose.
Speaker B:And then he runs by us at, well, feet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, the width of a road.
Speaker B:Two yards.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Six feet.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's all.
Speaker B:I have it on GoPro.
Speaker B:Actually, I've never published it.
Speaker B:I don't know why.
Speaker A:We might overlay this onto this.
Speaker B:She's over here.
Speaker A:We need this footage already.
Speaker B:So anyway, he runs by us at six feet and blood is pumping out of his chest.
Speaker B:So what actually happened is I saw the blood shoot past his nose, like on impact.
Speaker B:It, like set a stream of blood out.
Speaker B:And so he runs by us and you could see the.
Speaker B:As the heart pumped, like this stream, it looked like a water hose.
Speaker B:And as he, like, probably at 8ft, you could see him look at us because we're moving at this point.
Speaker B:I'm getting out of the way of the gun.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker B:Because in my mind he was going to shoot because I thought I hit him in the nose.
Speaker B:So I, I was literally ducking because I thought he was going to shoot.
Speaker B:But he luckily saw it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so when that, that bear ran by, he just followed it with the gun and didn't pull the trigger.
Speaker A:Just let.
Speaker B:It kept going and it went down the road a hundred yards and it actually jumped up on the bank.
Speaker B:We couldn't see him fall over, but he fell over.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:And I mean, there was a point where the bear, like, as he's coming toward us, he looks at us and as a split second, and he.
Speaker B:Then he turned back straight and kept going.
Speaker B:Like he thought about, should I kill or run?
Speaker B:And I mean, and.
Speaker B:And he's seven feet away when he's making this decision.
Speaker B:And we got a.300 and.38 win mag on him, which.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I. I don't know.
Speaker B:I mean, he would put one.
Speaker B:One shot.
Speaker A:He would have got one off.
Speaker A:Yeah, if you're.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But it would.
Speaker B:The impact would have been something, I'll tell you.
Speaker A:So, okay, so people hearing this story, they immediately want to go to the little cuddly.
Speaker A:Animals and everything is friends in nature.
Speaker A:I guess we can kind of act or talk.
Speaker B:Who are these people you're talking about?
Speaker A:The antis.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Like the, the tree huggers of the world.
Speaker A:Everybody that hates everything that we're doing because they hear a story like this.
Speaker A:But I guess let's, let's, let's talk about the conservation side of it.
Speaker A:I want to get into more stories just because since we're jumping into this to kind of lay out, let's, let's get into the conservation is because people, one of the biggest things, I'm sure you get it all the time.
Speaker A:I don't get as much anymore because I just don't post as much honey stuff.
Speaker A:This is endangered.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're killing endangered animals.
Speaker A:And people just don't understand what it actually goes into.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Get a tag, the, the money that goes.
Speaker A:That you're bringing into these communities, into the towns, into the villages, into these remote Alaskan villages of what hunters are actually doing to provide for wild game.
Speaker A:Because it's, we hear these stories and it's like kill, kill, kill.
Speaker A:Blood spraying out.
Speaker A:Oh my God, you guys were just murderers.
Speaker A:What goes into these types of things?
Speaker A:Like as far as just the conservation, the money that's being spent, the travel, bringing the economy to some of these small villages.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm sure you.
Speaker B:Yeah, so, so let's just back up and I'm, I'm gonna make a statement that, you know, some, it may shock some people, but.
Speaker B:And also.
Speaker B:But we'll, we'll back it up here.
Speaker B:But the statement is that if it weren't for sport hunting, there wouldn't be wild game.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker B:Because.
Speaker B:Well, let's just take this grizzly bear as an example, okay?
Speaker B:I mean, it's an easier example to talk about bison or something like that.
Speaker B:But let's just take a grizzly bear because that might be a hard example for some.
Speaker B:Well, how would sport hunters preserve grizzlies?
Speaker B:Well, this genetic of giant bears on the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains.
Speaker B:There's actually science in this.
Speaker B:Nobody.
Speaker B:There's very few big bears, big grizzlies outside of the salmon areas.
Speaker B:But a hundred years ago, there used to be a giant bear in Alberta that lived out on the plains.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker B:It was a giant plains grizzly bear.
Speaker B:And I don't know what he ate.
Speaker B:Probably bison and things like that, but they were giants.
Speaker B:And they were killed.
Speaker B:All of them were killed by the ranchers because they were killing cattle and sheep and everything else.
Speaker B:So they killed Them all.
Speaker B:They exterminated them.
Speaker B:Hunters didn't exterminate them, ranchers did.
Speaker B:So we're talking the establishment, right?
Speaker B:Like, we're talking, like, business, business for business.
Speaker B:We killed away the wildlife.
Speaker B:We could go into bison and talk about how commercial meat hunting killed the bison and all of that, but we'll just talk about the grizzly bear.
Speaker B:Well, I guess a few survived because all of a sudden, in the last couple of decades, these giant genetic grizzly bears are showing up on the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker B:And because of sport hunting, we want that population to be high.
Speaker B:So we put tags in place and conservation and all of these things that manage the population.
Speaker B:Because if you do let the grizzly bear population get out of control, then you don't have a moose population and a caribou population and a deer population.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So everything needs to be properly managed.
Speaker B:And so now, because of sport hunting, now they're protected.
Speaker B:Who's protecting them?
Speaker B:The people who want the tags to be able to hunt them and the money to provide the conservation is coming from those tags.
Speaker B:But also all of.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's taxes shared on any outdoor products sold.
Speaker B:So they exist today because if it were just for ranchers, they would all be gone.
Speaker B:But because of sport hunting, now there's a healthy population.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And so you go to any species, like, I mean, I wish I had the exact numbers in front of me, but, you know, whitetail deer, man, I. I really hate quoting stats that.
Speaker B:That I don't remember exactly, but it was down to something like 25,000 deer in North.
Speaker B:In.
Speaker B:In North America.
Speaker A:Oh, no kidding.
Speaker B:Because of meat hunting and commercial operation.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And now there's 25 million or something like that.
Speaker B:I should have better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But why do we have such a huge population?
Speaker B:Because hunters want to hunt them.
Speaker B:And when hunters want to hunt something, they put the conservation efforts, the tags, the management, the habitat, the food and water sources, the protection to be able to make sure that that species is healthy.
Speaker B:If it were just for business, they would all have been killed.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker B:They'd have been killed, which they have.
Speaker A:Been in the past.
Speaker B:That has happened.
Speaker B:You know, bison were down to like 500 or whatever it was.
Speaker B:I mean, these species were literally almost exterminated by meat hunters and even commercial meat hunting.
Speaker B:But basically they were seen as like, hey, this is how we're going to either make money or feed our family, and we're going to kill as many as we can so that we can do that.
Speaker B: that got together in the late: Speaker B:It was their favorite thing to do.
Speaker B:So hunters got together to stop the commercial harvesting of this meat and to stop, like, hey, just kill whatever you need to eat or whatever.
Speaker B:No, find another way to feed your family.
Speaker B:Not killing our wild game completely into the ground right now, of course, it should be a port portion of our diet for sure.
Speaker B:But if you want to feed everybody based on deer, well, there won't be any deer.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So we need to have other ways as well.
Speaker B:So this should be a part of it, but not all of it.
Speaker B:And so that was the first time the concept of tags and management and managing by science, that was the first time that was ever introduced.
Speaker B:And they founded what was called the Boone and Crockett Club.
Speaker B:And the Boone and Crockett Club was the first conservation organization that literally saved wildlife in North America.
Speaker A:I feel like I've heard this before, but I don't.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:That's fascinating.
Speaker A:I. I'm sure I've run around with him if I've heard that fact, but I did.
Speaker A:I don't remember.
Speaker A:Like, that's.
Speaker A:That's interesting.
Speaker A:I didn't know that was the very first one.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:It was founded by very powerful individuals.
Speaker B:Like, like people that were moving the laws of our country at that time.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, Teddy Roosevelt became President of the United States, right?
Speaker B:And his favorite thing to do was hunting.
Speaker B:And so they wanted to make sure that this was there forever.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And then the whole idea of the record book, the Boone and Crockett record book, which basically tracks the harvesting of the biggest animals.
Speaker B:Like, so they.
Speaker B:To.
Speaker B:To have something that qualifies to be entered in the Boone and Crockett record book, it has to be an absolute giant.
Speaker B:But the reason for that, it's science based.
Speaker B:They want to know how many absolute giants are being killed.
Speaker B:And if the number of those goes down dramatically, they know something's wrong with the management.
Speaker B:We're killing too many because the giant.
Speaker B:We're not getting any entries for the species anymore.
Speaker B:So something's wrong.
Speaker B:So it's diagnostic.
Speaker B:Like, okay, we're not getting any big.
Speaker B:More big mule deer.
Speaker B:What's wrong?
Speaker B:Okay, mule deer populations must be down.
Speaker B:We need to look at this and manage it better.
Speaker B: think about this in the late: Speaker B:Like, how are they.
Speaker B:They can't do aerial surveys.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:They don't have.
Speaker B:So they have to track a pretty.
Speaker A:Primitive way to do it.
Speaker A:But it's probably really accurate.
Speaker B:It is accurate.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And people want to enter the animal because it's really cool to have something entered into that book.
Speaker B:So they incentivize, like, hey, your name gets put in here.
Speaker B:We recognize your trophy.
Speaker B:Get immortalized in this book.
Speaker B:But they captured the scientific data to make sure the populations that the herds were.
Speaker B:Were healthy.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Roosevelt also implement the act?
Speaker A:Like all ammo, anything camping, outdoor.
Speaker A:Isn't there a percentage of all tax.
Speaker B:Sales that go to, I guess, Pitman Roberts?
Speaker B:Is that right?
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's called the Pitman Roberts.
Speaker B:And I don't believe Roosevelt did that.
Speaker B:But I could be wrong.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:That I should know.
Speaker B:I should know.
Speaker A:I should probably know.
Speaker B:But it's.
Speaker B:But you're right.
Speaker B:I mean, a percentage of anything sold that has to do with hunting or fishing and even broader, more outdoor stuff goes back to wildlife, goes back to the wild things and wild places of United States and North America.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:It's so tough because there's been such a.
Speaker A:A war waged on hunting over since we were children.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Starting with Bambi.
Speaker A:And then you look at every.
Speaker A:You look at every Disney movie, every hunter is this hillbilly and flannel, the shotgun and Elmer Fudd.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And so we have this whole entire image from day one as children that everything in the woods and on the mountain is fluffy and everybody lives in harmony.
Speaker A:And then now these hunters are bad.
Speaker A:But then we'll get attacked, right?
Speaker A:By online, by these people.
Speaker A:And my biggest thing back to anti hunters is what have you done?
Speaker A:What have you done?
Speaker A:Since you hate me so much you're wishing the most vile I've ever had anybody say about my children.
Speaker A:Because we're hunting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What have you done to help that animal?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And none of them have an answer.
Speaker B:Because I spend literally hundreds or thousands of hours every year, like, helping these animals, watching.
Speaker B:And like, I guarantee you, I love deer a thousand times more than an anti hunter.
Speaker B:I spend more time thinking about them, studying them, appreciating them.
Speaker B:And you know what I will say in.
Speaker B:In defense of trophy hunting?
Speaker B:I kill way less than the average hunter.
Speaker B:I normally don't kill.
Speaker A:I've never looked at it like that.
Speaker B:I normally don't kill because I'm so picky in finding the right thing.
Speaker B:I'm not a bloodthirsty guy.
Speaker B:I don't need to kill.
Speaker B:I mean there are people out there like I better kill something because like I don't want to go home and tell, tell people I didn't kill anything.
Speaker B:It's almost like an ego thing to kill.
Speaker B:I don't need to kill anything.
Speaker B:Like I want to, I want to kill the animal that I want to kill.
Speaker B:I want them to be huge and that's it.
Speaker B:And so because of that, like I'm contributing to that conservation effort.
Speaker B:I'm letting things get bigger, I'm letting the herds be healthy.
Speaker B:I want them to grow up and be big so that, you know, when it's time, I'm going to shoot the oldest, most mature buck on the mountain.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean that makes that, that's why I want to have this conversation to kind of just open people's point of view up that okay, even, even the non trophy hunters, just hunters in general of how much.
Speaker A:And I talk big lesson with my kids and I try to educate people on, you know, because bears are our thing.
Speaker A:Just, I love, I obsess over bears.
Speaker A:And so we put so much into these bears.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Watching, studying habits, root rhythms or patterns and okay, they're hitting at this time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:That is moving through this, on this face at this time during the day.
Speaker A:So, you know, and I would argue with these people, I go, I guarantee you, my kids, my daughters that you're calling and wishing horrible things, know more about that animal in its habitat, its food, it's, it's routines, everything about this animal that's living wild and free on a mountain.
Speaker A:Know more about it than you that are here cursing and saying the most ratchet, rank things you've ever heard in your life.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:Tell me one fun fact about a bear.
Speaker A:And they can't tell you anything unless they're going to Google or chat GPT it.
Speaker A:But you ask them, one of my daughters and they can list off a hundred things about a black bear because.
Speaker B:They've lived on the hill, love and appreciate the species.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And they've become experts at that species.
Speaker B:People can't understand it.
Speaker A:It's so hard to convince somebody that's not into hunting that we love these animals.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B:And the response you get is, but you want to kill it.
Speaker B:Okay, I don't want to kill them all.
Speaker B:I want to kill one occasionally and I want to use the meat and I want to use the hide and I want to use all of these things and I want to Enjoy the experience of being in nature, getting to know this species and occasionally kill one and use it for my family.
Speaker B:And yes, I want to kill the biggest one out there.
Speaker B:And why not?
Speaker B:I mean it's going to be more.
Speaker B:It's the healthiest thing to do is to kill the biggest, oldest one.
Speaker A:And so that's okay.
Speaker A:So that's a good tie in.
Speaker A:Because trophy hunters, my mind immediately goes to Africa, right?
Speaker A:You got a dude standing on a lion and you know they're holding up some leopard and you know, you see those.
Speaker A:So that's where I feel a lot of other people's mind might go to it.
Speaker A:But like, I don't.
Speaker A:When I think of trophy hunter, I'm not thinking about the guy that's been sitting on this 200 inch mule deer for 40 days all summer, right.
Speaker A:Watching it with his buddies, rotating, make sure it doesn't get out of this area for that season to open up.
Speaker A:Like that's.
Speaker A:I immediately want to go to the stigma of, you know, the, the old round boonie cover and you got a double barrel over your shotgun and your head, your, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, foot on a lion's head, that's where it goes.
Speaker A:But now there's such.
Speaker A:I'm trying to paint this picture that that's not real trophy hunting to me.
Speaker B:I mean, I like the North American model.
Speaker B:So the North American model is.
Speaker B:And this was the revolutionary idea that Teddy Roosevelt and these other gentlemen came up with.
Speaker B:And that is that the wildlife of the United States of America belongs to its citizens.
Speaker B:That that was the key and it's our stewardship to take care of it, to manage and make sure it's healthy.
Speaker B:That that was the groundbreaking.
Speaker B:It doesn't belong to the landowner.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker B:It belongs to the citizens of this country.
Speaker B:And so with that idea, you know, we have everybody contributing to make sure that, you know, the tags are appropriately issued, that the laws that there's Fair chase.
Speaker B:That's another thing that we don't shoot things at night and we don't like run them down with cars and we don't whatever.
Speaker B:I mean there's a variety of ways you could take something unethically, but we don't do that.
Speaker B:So we use fair chase.
Speaker B:We make sure the populations are healthy and when it, when the time is right and you have a tag and there is enough of them to shoot, we are, we're able to shoot one of them.
Speaker B:And that's different from Africa or anywhere else in Africa.
Speaker B:Most of the stuff is in high fences and they're breeding them just to kill them.
Speaker B:And that's not, it's different.
Speaker B:Okay, whatever.
Speaker B:I'm not, I'm not saying, you know, we're not going to debate that.
Speaker B:We're talking right now is the North American model that these things live in on public land and private land.
Speaker B:But even the ones that live on private land belong to the people of this country and that is our stewardship to take care of them.
Speaker B:And when the populations are right then we can shoot one of them and then use it for the purposes of feeding our family or using their height or whatever.
Speaker B:Whatever it is we want to use it for.
Speaker A:Where do you think it all turned?
Speaker A:I mean what's, there's, there's.
Speaker B:I don't think it has.
Speaker B:I think that you, you know, I mean if you, if you survey people in this country, 90% of them think it's okay to shoot something and eat it.
Speaker B:I mean you, you're pro, I don't know, like you're going to be a target because you have a couple of pretty daughters and they're out shooting stuff and that's going to draw, you're like almost rage baiting the public by posting a picture of.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:So you're going to draw those out.
Speaker B:I don't think that, that the public is against hunting now.
Speaker B:Trophy hunting, it doesn't survey quite as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, and I do think that that's too bad because they don't understand that trophy hunting is what keeps our populations really healthy.
Speaker B:Because there are states that manage for meat hunting and there are states that manage for trophy hunting and the herds are just better in where they're managing for trophy hunting.
Speaker B:Like you get more mature animals, you get the older age class buck doing the breeding and not like a two year old that hasn't proven its genetics doing the breeding because everything gets killed at three years old.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:That's huge thing that you see all the time is, you know, especially the influencer route.
Speaker A:You get all the, the YouTube hunting channels and you see them going out there and they're shooting little fork and horns for their, their grip and grin on there.
Speaker A:That, that's the problem that I have in the hunting industry is the guys that are creating content.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:On just killing anything just to be relevant.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or my favorite is when they kill a three year old they're like, look at this old toad.
Speaker B:This is like, they're like are you kidding me, dude?
Speaker B:And they're like throwing out scores.
Speaker B:Like they know what it scores and.
Speaker A:They're just seeing that.
Speaker A:So that's a riff in the hunting industry.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That people really don't really dive into is you're, it's almost divided in a way where you have your class of guys that are.
Speaker A:I'm a, I'm an age over anything.
Speaker A:I would shoot a smaller ancient deer over a younger, yeah, cool looking buck.
Speaker A:I just age to me, because you get the palmated blade, you start getting character with age.
Speaker A:That's, that's how my mind works.
Speaker B:The biggest challenge too.
Speaker B:I mean that's the smartest critter mountain.
Speaker A:And, and yeah, 100.
Speaker A:Because it has five, six, seven winners of living Out.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:And it's proven that whatever it's doing is right because it hasn't been killed yet.
Speaker B:So it's, it has.
Speaker B:Whatever is, whatever his routine is.
Speaker B:Is a good routine.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Then you have.
Speaker A:Oh, you can't eat the horn side of things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is great.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like that's how I grew up.
Speaker A:I actually had to teach myself everything on big game hunting.
Speaker A:My dad was huge waterfowl guy.
Speaker A:So everything big game, all I pretty much had the self taught.
Speaker A:And so then you get into it and then you start finding these divides inside the industry because then everyone's like, well, let them grow, you know, let them go, let them grow.
Speaker A:And then you have the other half of, of just burn it.
Speaker A:If it's brown, it's down.
Speaker A:And then you, you start seeing how some of these states manage things and you go to these units, you're like, bro, there's nothing like you're grinding out.
Speaker A:Probably not you, you know, you got it dialed as far as hunts and where.
Speaker A:What is.
Speaker B:But yeah, I mean it's, it's hard.
Speaker B:Like I said, I usually come home with nothing.
Speaker B:I mean that's, that's the secret.
Speaker B:What's the secret to killing big animals?
Speaker B:Well, go a lot and don't shoot the little ones.
Speaker B:It's not rocket science.
Speaker B:But you know, so I'm actually, you know, I'm starting a podcast soon here that's going to be trophy hunting based.
Speaker B:And the reason I'm starting at BAM is because it doesn't exist.
Speaker B:Nobody wants to even talk about, they don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole.
Speaker B:They want to talk about the experience and the meat and all this stuff.
Speaker B:And, and you know what, most of the guys who are doing that are actually trophy hunters.
Speaker B:They're just afraid to talk about it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because of the stigma that comes with it.
Speaker B:And yeah, that's Right.
Speaker B:And, and I'm not afraid to talk.
Speaker B:I think, I think it's an amazing thing that helps the herds.
Speaker B:And, and we have to give credit where credit's due is trophy hunters that saved wild game in North America flat out.
Speaker B:The other thing too is we run into a lot is people who talk bad about trophy hunting are usually bad hunters.
Speaker B:I mean, I.
Speaker A:Look, it's called speed of spade.
Speaker B:If the shoe fits, man.
Speaker B:Yeah, they usually suck.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Of course you're against trophy hunting because it takes tremendous skill and patience to kill a giant animal.
Speaker B:Tremendous.
Speaker B:And you actually, you may hate trophy hunting, but you're proving that you're a bloodthirsty and you just want to go out and kill something.
Speaker B:Okay, well, what's better, somebody who's so bloodthirsty they can't leave the mountain without shooting something or somebody like me who I hunt two to three months a year and maybe kill one to two animals a year.
Speaker A:And you're.
Speaker A:And how many are you passing?
Speaker B:Thousands.
Speaker B:Like, I don't even know.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I've doll sheep.
Speaker B:I've been.
Speaker B:I've been doll sheep hunting now 98 days between nine different Dall sheep hunts.
Speaker B:I've passed over 30 legal rams and I've never even made a stock.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker B:I've never even made a stock.
Speaker A:What's stopping you?
Speaker A:It's just not the right looking for a giant.
Speaker A:Do you go off of feel or are you off of inches or I go off inches.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I mean, so you know, I want a 42 inch RAM with 13 and a half to 14 inch bases.
Speaker B:And I mean, that's a world class doll sheep.
Speaker B:And there's only four a year killed in the world that have those dimensions.
Speaker B:And I'm trying to kill him with a bow.
Speaker B:So I'm basically hunting a unicorn.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:I love every minute of it.
Speaker B:People are like, oh, it sucks that your doll sheep hunt was a failure.
Speaker B:I'm like, do you mean the one I'm still on?
Speaker B:Because it's still the same hunt.
Speaker B:I'm just 98 days deep, spread out over 15 years.
Speaker A:Have you seen what I've seen on this mountain?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I've had the best time up chasing doll sheep.
Speaker B:And you know what, the guys who hate trophy hunting, they would have just blasted the first one they saw, you.
Speaker A:Know, and so good for you for having that.
Speaker A:I don't even know what you.
Speaker B:I mean, insanity.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You call it like clinical insanity?
Speaker A:Borderline for sure.
Speaker A:100 Days in the field chasing a Sheep to.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's insane to me.
Speaker B:I have a similar number of days chasing Alaskan barren ground caribou.
Speaker B:That's a really hard one to, to break what I want to break, which is the Boone and Crockett minimum.
Speaker B:So what I'm after to get in the Boone and Crockett all time book, there's a certain score which is like the compilation of inches according to certain formulas.
Speaker B:Okay, so like in barren ground caribou, it's a 400 inch caribou.
Speaker B:And I've now killed two.
Speaker B:One that was 386 and one that was 375.
Speaker B:That were dang big bulls, but they didn't quite make that 400 on the Dall sheep.
Speaker B:I've never seen one that I believed was over 170, which is the minimum.
Speaker B:And so I'm.
Speaker B:Why would I, you know what if I, I could have killed several dal sheep, okay, with my bow, it wouldn't fix my problem.
Speaker B:It wouldn't.
Speaker B:I don't want to call it a problem, but it wouldn't satisfy what I want.
Speaker B:So why am I gonna kill it?
Speaker B:I see no reason to kill something.
Speaker A:I respect that.
Speaker B:Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna feel just as hungry to go back and find my giant 170 RAM.
Speaker B:If I kill like a 150 RAM for fun.
Speaker B:I mean, don't get me wrong, it would be.
Speaker B:It would be very entertaining to make an awesome stock and bo kill a doll sheep.
Speaker B:That would be really cool.
Speaker B:But it doesn't, it doesn't fill me.
Speaker B:So I'm just gonna wait until I find that one.
Speaker A:Okay, so, honest question.
Speaker A:Let's say you, you.
Speaker A:You found your sheep, you got your phone scope in it.
Speaker A:You, you're sending it to buddies.
Speaker A:What do you think this is going to score?
Speaker A:I'm sure this is a lot.
Speaker A:I'm sure.
Speaker A:I'm just painting the picture.
Speaker A:This is what goes into what.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:You're sending it to everybody.
Speaker A:What do you score it for?
Speaker A:Me score it for?
Speaker A:Probably send it to this dude.
Speaker A:What do you think it's going to go?
Speaker A:Let's say they say it's going to break that.
Speaker A:That number and you get in, God willing, everything lines up, you put an arrow through it and it's an inch short.
Speaker A:Does it?
Speaker B:Oh, that happens all the time.
Speaker A:Does it?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Okay, so in my quest, yeah, like, probably half the animals I kill that I think will go book, which is what we call Boone and Crockett.
Speaker A:Okay, don't no kidding.
Speaker B:And that's okay.
Speaker A:Are you okay?
Speaker A:You want to know, you want to.
Speaker B:Know what the good news is?
Speaker A:You get to do it again.
Speaker B:I get to do it again.
Speaker B:But I'm genuinely only going to shoot it if I think there's a pretty dang good chance.
Speaker B:Like if I think it's 50 50, he'll go book.
Speaker B:I'm shooting it.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because you can't like, you can't know.
Speaker A:You okay?
Speaker B:I mean, nobody's going to.
Speaker B:I mean, there's certain animal this occasionally, you know, Occasionally.
Speaker B:Like, okay, that's a no brainer.
Speaker B:Yeah, occasionally.
Speaker B:But most of the time you don't know.
Speaker B: just have to like, okay, I'm: Speaker B:And I've also done it where I like talk myself into being 50 50, but I'm really not.
Speaker B:I just want to like have some fun.
Speaker B:I'm guilty.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But a little closer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It depends on the animal.
Speaker B:Like whitetail hunting.
Speaker B:You know, I go whitetail hunting every year and I try to kill a nice buck every year and I know they're not book, that's fine.
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:I really enjoy it.
Speaker B:I use the meat.
Speaker B:I go with my daughter.
Speaker B:We have a fantastic time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's not like I'm like that with everything, but there are multiple hunts I go on every year where it's been a Crockett or nothing.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Another thing I never do is I never pull out my tape measure until like way after.
Speaker B:Oh, I enjoy the moment.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I respect the animal and I respect the people that, you know.
Speaker B:If I'm with a guide, I'm not going to like, oh, let's see what he scores.
Speaker B:That would cheap the experience tremendously.
Speaker B:I have zero interest in that.
Speaker A:It kills.
Speaker B:Like, if I'm going to decide to kill something, I.
Speaker B:That's my animal.
Speaker B:And like, I am so happy and grateful to been part of that.
Speaker B:No matter what the tape says, good.
Speaker B:A hundred percent of the time.
Speaker B:And then whatever, hours later the next day, I'll pull out a tape, see scores, and if he's in, great.
Speaker B:If not, I get to come back.
Speaker A:Have you ever spent hours and hours and hours stalking in on something?
Speaker A:You get within bow range and then you find out and you're just like, now, this isn't it.
Speaker B:I, I have had that happen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I remember once a big caribou I stalked and.
Speaker B:And now granted, we were also like, you know, two full days in backpacking.
Speaker A:So like, oh, two days of hiking just to get there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And taking out a caribou.
Speaker B:I mean, it's.
Speaker B:It's a lot of work.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But I got in.
Speaker B:I'm like, this bull isn't what I thought he was.
Speaker B:And I backed out.
Speaker A:No kidding.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How's that feel, though?
Speaker A:I mean, are you.
Speaker A:Are you happy with that decision or is there more frustrated?
Speaker A:I mean, do, you know, do you get discouraged on.
Speaker A:On some of these moments?
Speaker B:I honestly don't, man.
Speaker B:I en.
Speaker B:Process.
Speaker B:I freaking love it.
Speaker B:You know, the outfitters, they're the ones that are mind blown by it.
Speaker B:They're like, I've never seen somebody do something like this.
Speaker B:People are usually so, like, they just want to blast, you know, like this.
Speaker B:I have this, this one guy.
Speaker B:We're looking over these caribou and like, they're big.
Speaker B:They're like 380 bulls.
Speaker B:And I'm like.
Speaker B:And we're adding them up, and I'm adding them up on my paper.
Speaker B:I'm like, I think they're both 380.
Speaker B:He's like, okay, like, let's keep looking.
Speaker B:He's like, are you serious?
Speaker B:Like, yeah.
Speaker B:He's like, this is amazing.
Speaker B:I love you.
Speaker B:This is awesome.
Speaker B:You don't want to just blast there, you know, kill that bull.
Speaker B:I mean, no, it's not about that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, I. I have nothing wrong.
Speaker B:There's like, if I wanted to shoot it, fine.
Speaker B:I, you know, I'm not, I'm saying I'm like, you know, morally opposed to killing something.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:But this is my goal and this is what I want to do.
Speaker B:And this is part of the experience.
Speaker B:Part of the experience is seeing giant animals that are almost there and choosing to just enjoy that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And take some pictures.
Speaker B:And like people say, but, you know, you go on these hunts, you don't have anything to post or whatever.
Speaker B:I'm like, first of all, I don't freaking hunt for social media.
Speaker B:That's like an atrocity to even think about.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:But if I did, how much cooler is it to post pictures of something that I let go that you would have like, died to kill?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, if it really was something I cared about.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I was telling him I was.
Speaker A:I had a client once, and he was a 200 or 200 or nothing guy.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:Every person to 200 or nothing when they come out.
Speaker B:And of course to the, to the audience, we're talking about mule deer.
Speaker A:Mule deer.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You know, you get the occasional guy.
Speaker A:You know, I Always ask, hey, what do we look?
Speaker A:What do you.
Speaker A:Especially when they're not Easter or western guys.
Speaker A:Okay, what are we looking for?
Speaker A:200 Inch.
Speaker A:I'm like, well, how many?
Speaker A:200.
Speaker A:What's your biggest meal?
Speaker B:They don't even know what that means.
Speaker A:They don't.
Speaker B:They have no idea.
Speaker A:They don't.
Speaker A:That's just the number for mule deer.
Speaker A:And so always, what are we looking for?
Speaker A:Like, oh, 200 inch.
Speaker A:I'm like, so what's your biggest mealy on the wall?
Speaker A:They're like, well, I haven't killed one.
Speaker A:And I'm like, okay, wait till you see like a solid 180 bucks.
Speaker A:Typical.
Speaker A:You're gonna your pants over it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But this guy, I won't throw names out, but he's a.
Speaker A:He's a big mule deer guy.
Speaker A:He spends a couple hundred grand a year on mule deer.
Speaker A:Anyways, we.
Speaker A:I find this one, we crawl our asses off.
Speaker A:I'm glassing and I'm like, it's gonna be right around 200.
Speaker A:And we get all the way in.
Speaker A:It's an archery hunt.
Speaker A:We get there and I'm just glass on it and I'm just burning this thing.
Speaker A:I'm adding and I'm putting it at like 198 to 200.
Speaker A:It's not going to break.
Speaker A:In my mind.
Speaker A:It's not going to break 200.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:And so we're talking or whispering.
Speaker A:He's like, can you guarantee me.
Speaker B:Oh my God, it's going to break 200?
Speaker A:I go, I can't.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not putting that on me.
Speaker A:I'm like, but it's right there.
Speaker A:Dude stands up.
Speaker A:Nope, not what I'm looking for.
Speaker A:Blows that deer out of there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Pile that runs five miles.
Speaker A:But yeah, that's just who he was, though.
Speaker A:If I.
Speaker A:If you could not guarantee 100.
Speaker A:Guarantee that it's gonna break in.
Speaker A:We ended up killing it.
Speaker A:There's a few weeks later, a couple seasons after.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:It was right on the money.
Speaker A:I was right within an inch of it.
Speaker A:But yeah, it was one of those deals where I was like, holy.
Speaker A:You know who's.
Speaker A:I know who.
Speaker A:You know Bob from.
Speaker A:Bob.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Bob's a good dude.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, you want a great archery shop down in San Diego.
Speaker A:Now I've never met anybody like him before as a client.
Speaker A:I'll never forget out in Colorado.
Speaker A:And we find a stud.
Speaker A:Stud.
Speaker A:I think this one was Bob used.
Speaker B:To do a lot of eastern Colorado hunts.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's that's where we met.
Speaker A:So I'm out there with them and we find this hammer.
Speaker A:It's well over 200.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker A:It's just working this.
Speaker A:It's an old farm, actually.
Speaker A:It's all run down.
Speaker A:You get all the panels up for the cattle used to go in, but it's just roaming.
Speaker A:It's rotten inside of there.
Speaker B:That's perfect for stocking.
Speaker A:Most beautiful stock ever.
Speaker A:You know what this dude does?
Speaker A:He pulls his target out.
Speaker A:I'm watching the buck from the.
Speaker A:And he starts.
Speaker A:He wanted to get some reps in.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, we gotta go, bro.
Speaker A:We gotta kill this dude.
Speaker A:He's like, he just.
Speaker A:That dude taught.
Speaker A:I just watched him for that week and I learned so much because I'm always, let's go, let's go.
Speaker A:We gotta get ahead of it.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:I just get so worked and he was just like, if it's there, it's there.
Speaker A:I just gotta get my reps in.
Speaker A:And yeah, man, that dude is a sniper.
Speaker A:I mean, and to finish that story gets in.
Speaker A:Here it comes walking right down, draws.
Speaker A:We're behind, watching walks that walk, walk right by.
Speaker A:I just didn't feel comfortable with the shot.
Speaker B:No way.
Speaker A:I'm like, like, blink, blink, blink.
Speaker A:Like, I'm just.
Speaker A:I would have been zipping arrows in every direction to try to kill that thing.
Speaker A:But yeah, just somebody of that caliber of professionalism to be able to stay that calm.
Speaker A:You got a world class deer walking well within range.
Speaker A:Not like, this is a long shot.
Speaker A:And just be able to be like, yeah, I'm good with it.
Speaker A:And then, you know, but teach their own.
Speaker A:Everybody's.
Speaker A:I'll take a guy out and he sees 160 inch deer and he's diving out of the truck, try to kill it.
Speaker A:You're like, all right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's one thing that I want to make clear is like, everybody has their own way of doing it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I have, like, as long as you're respectful and you're obeying the laws, that's your right.
Speaker B:And I have.
Speaker B:If again, like that story I told about my first year, like, I would never look at that deer twice today.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But so I don't mean to be a snob.
Speaker B:Like, that meant so much to me to kill that 140 inch buck.
Speaker B:Like, that was incredible to me.
Speaker B:And so, like, you know, if that's where somebody is and maybe they say that at that.
Speaker B:At that place their whole life, and that's completely fine.
Speaker B:We need people out Hunting for sure.
Speaker B:That's what we need.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:Like, if people need to be out hunting, that's the most important thing.
Speaker B:You need to be out enjoying the outdoors, you know, ethically killing things with fair chase and using the meat.
Speaker B:And that's what we need.
Speaker B:But I enjoy trophy hunting, so I want to talk about trophy hunting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:And people who enjoy it might like hearing about it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I think a great thing, because I'm one of those.
Speaker A:The trophy is in the eye of the beholder, Right?
Speaker B:True.
Speaker A:I mean, look at how many little kids shoot a little spike or horn.
Speaker A:And it's the greatest moment of their life.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker A:Something that I've always taught my kids as, you know, as they.
Speaker A:They grow and get a little bit older.
Speaker A:Hey, now that you've gotten to this age, you got some animals under your belt.
Speaker A:Equal or above.
Speaker A:So every year, especially with bears.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What do you do with.
Speaker A:I got behind this bar, dude, there's a stack of Bear Heights, $400 a Tanner Bear 200.
Speaker A:I'll just adding things.
Speaker A:I'm like, we keep shooting all these damn bears.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But for us as a family, and I tell a lot of guys is like, okay, I'm not saying you're gonna go out and need to burn every spike you see, but I'm equal from the year prior or bigger.
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker A:That's what we do as a family.
Speaker A:So she got to the point she shot several bears.
Speaker A:And then she came in the last year, shot her her big, mature bear.
Speaker A:She was like, dad, I really want a big, mature bear this year.
Speaker A:I'm like, well, you're gonna pass a lot of bears.
Speaker A:I just want you to know this.
Speaker A:She's like, I'm cool with that.
Speaker A:I'm like, you're sure?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:We ended up.
Speaker A:She ended up passing 20 Bears that season.
Speaker A:Several of them were decent.
Speaker A:And she'd always ask dad, how do you know?
Speaker A:How do you know it's the one?
Speaker A:I go, you'll know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we were.
Speaker B:That's how you describe a bear.
Speaker A:You'll know.
Speaker B:Like, with deer, you can like, well, if you know their ears this long.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know that that equals whatever inches.
Speaker B:And then you look for this.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:With a bear, you just know.
Speaker A:You just know.
Speaker A:It's so that whole season, you know, and she.
Speaker A:Bears would walk out, she'd look back at me.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker A:I'd be like, how do you feel?
Speaker A:She's like, dad, just tell me to shoot it on.
Speaker A:I'm like this is yours.
Speaker B:She turns, she says, can you guarantee me that's a. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:He's had a mature bore.
Speaker A:And so finally or toward the end of the season this.
Speaker A:This bear just stroll.
Speaker A:And we just caught him roaming.
Speaker A:And it was right in the rut.
Speaker A:I actually mouth called it and started squeaking because it was not stopping.
Speaker A:It stopped, turn, came back around a big loop.
Speaker A:She's watching the whole.
Speaker A:But when it stepped out, she did one of these like.
Speaker A:And I looked at.
Speaker A:I went like that's the one.
Speaker A:And I'm like equal or above.
Speaker A:But that now that just raised her bar.
Speaker A:So now that's the new level.
Speaker A:Our lowest we're gonna go is your last bear.
Speaker A:So we're either if you're cool with that or bigger.
Speaker A:Because I caught myself.
Speaker A:I got tied up in the whole social media influence in the earlier days of hunting when I don't even know how I got pulled in it.
Speaker A:I've hunted my whole entire life.
Speaker A:If social media is here or not.
Speaker A:The Marshalls are.
Speaker A:We're going to be stacking bodies every year.
Speaker A:But I get pulled into it.
Speaker A:And then I would.
Speaker A:Where I learned a lesson, actually.
Speaker A:I was working with a big gun company and I felt that pressure to have to produce.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I caught myself and I shot this antelope.
Speaker A:And I walk up on it and I.
Speaker A:The first thing that went through my head, I go why the did I shoot this thing?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's the worst feeling.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:And it hit me and I go, I just wasted this animal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's when it registered with me.
Speaker A:And I was like, I just killed this animal just to post a grip and grin so I could stay relevant with this company.
Speaker A:I was like, I'm done.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm done.
Speaker A:And that was.
Speaker A:That was my aha moment as a. I guess my come to Jesus moment as an outdoorsman where it.
Speaker A:It didn't bring me any excitement.
Speaker A:I'm not saying that it's.
Speaker A:I'd rather shoot a dough.
Speaker A:Shooting a doe would have done the exact same thing to me because I'm.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:We love animal antelopes in my top five meats that we will absolutely destroy in this house.
Speaker A:I'm like, I would have just got the same thing from this.
Speaker A:But I could have.
Speaker A:I could have let this animal grow.
Speaker B:You could have let that.
Speaker B:But grow up.
Speaker B:I think that's.
Speaker B:That story was amazing by the way.
Speaker B:And that describes like why I'm not going to shoot 155 inch doll sheep.
Speaker B:You know I spent all this money.
Speaker B:I could like, whatever I have, you know, films I could make.
Speaker B:I could get a lot of content and all that.
Speaker B:But it's, that's not why I want to shoot something.
Speaker A:It's a, it's 100% a feeling that you, it's hard to explain when you, I don't want to say make the mistake, but when you get to that point in your hunting life, which could come right away.
Speaker A:It could come, it could come never.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker A:I know old timers that are burning every, every buck, no matter the size.
Speaker B:And they get, that's fine.
Speaker A:And they get so much joy over it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But when you get to that point where you're not.
Speaker A:You walk up on, you're like, okay, cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's when you either.
Speaker A:That's when I really took a step back.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, I've gotten to this point.
Speaker A:Not that I've killed anything remotely giant, that I have thousands of animals under my belt, but I got to this point where I'm like, man, I watched her shoot something for the first time and I completely came unglued.
Speaker A:I'm like, unless it's going to be a 400 inch bowl or some 200 inch deer that I'm my pants over.
Speaker A:I get more of a rush, more excitement, more joy of watching my kids out there doing, even if they're just with me.
Speaker A:That brought me.
Speaker A:And that's where I really started shifting my mindset to, dude, I don't like, I'll go out and somebody like, dude, there's 170 buck.
Speaker A:I'm like, all right, dude, shoot it.
Speaker A:And you don't want it.
Speaker A:I'm like, for what?
Speaker A:And I'm not.
Speaker A:And this is not coming from on a pedestal that I have stacks of 200g.
Speaker A:No, this is just.
Speaker A:I know somebody else is going to get more joy out of that than me.
Speaker A:Posting a griping green that's going to get a couple of likes for a few days and then what's the point of it?
Speaker B:You want to be excited about it 100%.
Speaker B:And I think, I think that makes sense.
Speaker B:And I, and I think that, you know, I, I don't mind if, you know, people like, you know, like I said, do what you want to do, do it makes you happy for sure.
Speaker B:But I don't mind if people feel a little bit of pressure to let things grow up a little bit, you know, like you look at Alaska, for example, there are Alaska residents and if I piss people off so Be it.
Speaker B:But there's guys who have to kill a doll sheep every year.
Speaker B:And it's an ego thing and they're killing eight year olds.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're killing sheep that are barely legal.
Speaker B:And I'm not saying like, if it's your first sheep or whatever and you've worked your butt off and whatever, fine, you know, you know, kill a legal 8 year old.
Speaker B:There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker B:But you don't need to kill an 8 year old every year.
Speaker B:No, you know, if you really think you need to kill a doll sheep every year because adult sheep hunting in Alaska is rough right now.
Speaker B:The populations are low.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:For a while it has.
Speaker B:And then the winners have not been friendly.
Speaker B:And the guys who got to kill their sheep every year are not good for things.
Speaker B:And you know, if you need to kill a sheep every year, get in an age it and kill them if they're 10 or 12.
Speaker B:Then kill your sheep every year.
Speaker B:Don't kill a barely legal 8 year old.
Speaker B:Yeah, like that's not helping anything.
Speaker B:We got to let things grow up.
Speaker A:And it's so weird hearing a hunter, an avid hunter say that because we get like this whole conversation where everyone just, you guys just wanted murderers, you guys just out for blood.
Speaker A:But here you are.
Speaker B:Somebody listening closely who felt that way would hear something here that we care for.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:We care about the health of the species.
Speaker B: the night, you know, into the: Speaker B:And it's trophy hunters again today that want to keep it healthy always.
Speaker B:We're the ones that are like, we've got to pull back.
Speaker B:We got to have the right number of tags.
Speaker B:We need to keep the quality up and what that does and it keeps the health of the herds up for sure.
Speaker A:And without that, then we, we start looking in.
Speaker A:Then we start depending on the science and the biologists that are now dictating how these animal herds are, which terrifies me because this is.
Speaker A:Okay, so I guess a question that I just thought of this is how do you feel that our states are managing animals?
Speaker A:Obviously every state's different.
Speaker A:I completely understand that.
Speaker A:Well, I guess we'll take Utah since that's where you're, you know, you know, a lot of.
Speaker A:How do you work?
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Okay, I guess the tie into this.
Speaker A:I personally feel that our states are destroying the hunting on purpose by blowing out some of these areas, not putting sizes on, you know, spike units and they're just destroying and shooting these out.
Speaker A:We've watched such a decline in mule deer whitetail numbers over in several states.
Speaker A:Look at Oregon, Idaho's big, I mean, Utah, they want to blame everything on mountain lions and everything on wolves.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How do you take the science that the scientists are providing versus what outdoor.
Speaker A:The hunting outdoorsmen can provide?
Speaker A:I mean, do you see, do you think that is a fair way that they're judging our animal herds and numbers?
Speaker B:So you have two different schools of thought.
Speaker B:You know, you have states that want to manage for opportunity and says that want to manage for trophy quality.
Speaker B:And so I guess that's where things get mixed up is you have to look at the underlying value system that's, you know, being used and in science can be obviously tweaked.
Speaker B:You know, like I read a book once, how to lie with statistics.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean you can like, you can say, you can have numbers, say anything with very small tweaks.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, I'll tell you a story that kind of demonstrates the disparity.
Speaker B:So I was sitting at, and this was a long time ago, I mean this was 15 years ago.
Speaker B:I was sitting at the Wild Sheep foundation banquet and I watched the Nevada mule.
Speaker B:Excuse me, Arizona.
Speaker B:It was the Arizona mule deer tag, the governor's tags.
Speaker B:You can hunt any mule deer in the state of Arizona for like a four or five month season, maybe it's even a year season, I can't remember.
Speaker B:But it went for $500,000.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Now I've these today.
Speaker B:Some of these tags have actually gone for a million.
Speaker B:So this was like 15 years ago.
Speaker B:So a deer tag went for $500,000.
Speaker B:The very next tag up after the Arizona governor's tag was the Montana governor's tag.
Speaker B:It went for 12, 5, what's the diff?
Speaker A:Just management wise management.
Speaker B:Like Montana runs the rifle hunt through the rut for mule deer every year.
Speaker B:It's like a six week rifle season that goes right through the rut.
Speaker B:They're not gonna have big mule deer.
Speaker B:They're managing for opportunity though.
Speaker B:They're managing.
Speaker B:The only place you could ever find a big mule deer in Montana probably is private land.
Speaker B:And then so what does the governor's tag even do?
Speaker B:You nothing.
Speaker B:You got to pay.
Speaker B:You got to pay this private land anyway.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But in Arizona, they're managing for trophy quality in most areas and they have generally good management and giant animals.
Speaker B:You look at Arizona, Nevada, Utah, like these, these places have giant animals.
Speaker B:Now I do think though, you, you can't manage every Unit for trophy quality.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker B:Selfishly, I would love that.
Speaker B:You do need to have opportunities so that people can hunt.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, mule deer and elk aren't like whitetail.
Speaker B:Like they don't breed as easily.
Speaker B:They're not as hardy.
Speaker B:Like the populations you can like whitetail.
Speaker B:You can't get rid of them if you try.
Speaker B:I mean, people like coyotes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean people are like trying to like there's too many of these things.
Speaker B:We're hitting them with our cars.
Speaker B:Like, how can we.
Speaker B:They've tried contraception, they've tried all this stuff.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, so mule deer and whitetail are sensitive.
Speaker B:So it's hard.
Speaker B:Like I have to take my kids to whitetail states to hunt every year.
Speaker B:They can't hunt every year in Utah generally, or if I lived in Arizona or whatever.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So we do need to have some units where we sort of maximize opportunities so we can get our kids hunting.
Speaker B:That is one important thing.
Speaker B:So you can't have every unit be a trophy unit.
Speaker B:But there should be a mix of opportunity hunt zones that are managed for that and a mix of units that are, that are managed for trophy quality.
Speaker B:That's my opinion.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:I mean that it's.
Speaker A:But obviously like you're saying we have to have the meat hunts for people that are providing.
Speaker A:I know a lot of guys that come up here and just for cow.
Speaker A:Elk.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's, that's all they look forward to every year, which is great.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:So one animal.
Speaker A:What's the number one animal on your list?
Speaker A:Well, I mean, you can close your eyes right now.
Speaker A:What's the first thing that you can chase?
Speaker B:I mean the, the doll sheep thing, it's.
Speaker A:Gotcha.
Speaker B:It's got me bad.
Speaker B:But like right now I'm kind of keen on this brown bear.
Speaker B:Like a ten foot brown bear.
Speaker B:I haven't killed a ten foot brown bear.
Speaker B:I've seen one die.
Speaker A:And going for 20 days.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a grind.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I get there on.
Speaker B:I fly in May 6th and the season actually goes through May 31st.
Speaker B:You're gonna stay the whole time, so.
Speaker B:Well, I'll stay until I kill or I don't kill.
Speaker B:But I mean, I could be there, I guess.
Speaker B:Was that 25 days?
Speaker B:Yeah, I could be there 25 days.
Speaker B:And it's backpacking, man.
Speaker A:The whole time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I guess they'll probably drop some food out of the cub for us if we run out.
Speaker B:But like we're, we're backpacking for brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula.
Speaker B:It's, it is going to be gnarly.
Speaker A:How do you train for that?
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:You just, you just raw dog and.
Speaker B:You're just going for that?
Speaker B:I train jiu jitsu six days a week.
Speaker A:Yeah, I guess I don't.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:People say, how do you get ready for hunting season?
Speaker B:I'm like, I'm always ready for hunting season.
Speaker A:Valid.
Speaker B:I can leave on a 30 day backpack hunt tomorrow.
Speaker B:And I don't mean to be arrogant, but I'll out hike anybody.
Speaker B:At 50 years old, I have no problem moving around the mountains.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker A:What do you think that is?
Speaker A:Hawaii?
Speaker A:Just because you, Is it a lot of it?
Speaker A:Because you've never stopped.
Speaker B:I mean, I've never stopped.
Speaker B:I don't drink, I don't do drugs.
Speaker B:I eat good food.
Speaker B:I work out like crazy.
Speaker B:I'm just healthy.
Speaker A:Yeah, you do not look good.
Speaker B:Genetics, I guess.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:Take care of yourself.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean I, I put the right things in my body and I get good, good things out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How many pairs of socks are you bringing for that trip?
Speaker B:That's the most random question.
Speaker A:Is it two?
Speaker B:Two, because I can wash one.
Speaker A:Is that, was that a random question?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean that's the, that my mind sticking on my.
Speaker A:How many pairs of socks do I need to pack?
Speaker B:I'm like, of all the things you could ask me, like, of everything your listeners want to know, know, that's how many pairs of socks.
Speaker A:That's what I want to know.
Speaker B:I, I take.
Speaker B:So here's my rule in backpacking.
Speaker B:If I think I might need it, I leave it at home.
Speaker A:Oh, it's 100 guarantee.
Speaker B:I have to need it to make it into my pack.
Speaker B:You have to have that mentality, your pack gets too heavy.
Speaker B:So I count every ounce.
Speaker B:I take two pairs of socks.
Speaker B:One's on my feet, the other's in my pack.
Speaker B:And when the one gets dirty, I put the other pair on and wash the pair that was in my pack.
Speaker B:And then it goes in the rotation and I take two pairs of underwear, same thing.
Speaker B:I can wash one and wear one.
Speaker A:Have you ever been caught in a situation where you needed something really bad that you should have brought?
Speaker B:I mean, you just make it work.
Speaker B:Yeah, you can just like as long as you have food.
Speaker B:Like you need, you need and you need.
Speaker B:Sometimes I've found myself rationing food to down to like 900 calories a day because things like go longer than I thought and then I start readjusting or whatever.
Speaker B:But normally I try to take 2,500 calories a day, which isn't enough so you lose weight when you're hunting.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker B:When you're backpacking because of all the calorie output, but sure.
Speaker B:You need good rain gear, you need a good tent, you need a good sleeping bag, and you need good boots.
Speaker B:Are you running, coughing and a good backpack?
Speaker B:Yes, I run almost all Kuyu.
Speaker B:Yeah, you need those five things and everything else is like luxury, you know, I mean, you need your weapon.
Speaker B:I mean, there's things you have to have.
Speaker B:I always think of clothing.
Speaker B:Okay, what's the coldest it could get?
Speaker B:I do that calculation.
Speaker B:Let's say I think the coldest it could get is, like, around freezing.
Speaker B:Okay, well, if I put on everything in my pack, would I be somewhat comfortable when.
Speaker B:If it gets as cold as it gets?
Speaker B:If the answer is yes, that's the amount of gear I need to bring.
Speaker B:I would never bring gear where I couldn't put on everything on.
Speaker B:If I put everything on at once, I'd have too much.
Speaker B:Well, then why would I carry it?
Speaker A:That's a great point.
Speaker B:Right now.
Speaker B:What if something gets wet?
Speaker B:Okay, well, you're probably going to be a little cold.
Speaker B:Better get it dry.
Speaker B:Now you're going to say, how do you get it dry?
Speaker B:You put it on in your sleeping bag and it gets dry.
Speaker A:Have you done that?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Every.
Speaker B:Every time I get wet, I get in my sleeping bag, put on my wet clothes and go to sleep.
Speaker B:And I wake up and they're dry.
Speaker B:And it's not fun.
Speaker B:But if you leave them in a heap on the floor, they're not going to dry.
Speaker B:So your body heat will drive stuff.
Speaker B:I remember I was on this hunt in Alaska with this stud guide, like, really good, like, tough dude.
Speaker B:And we're sharing a tent.
Speaker B:And this was several days, like five days in, had been raining and nasty and all this stuff.
Speaker B:And I wasn't really thinking about.
Speaker B:I was just doing my thing.
Speaker B:And he says to me, gosh, I hate this, man.
Speaker B:Everything I own is wet.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker B:Dude, I literally don't have one wet piece of gear.
Speaker B:Like, what?
Speaker B:How's all your gear dry?
Speaker B:I'm like, everything I own is dry.
Speaker B:He's like, everything I own is wet.
Speaker B:Well, yeah, because as things get wet, I dry them out, I put them on, wear them.
Speaker B:He put them in a freaking plastic bag and then put on something new and get it wet, and it goes in the plastic bag.
Speaker B:And he now has accumulated, like, a bunch of wet clothes.
Speaker B:You gotta stay on Top of that.
Speaker A:No shit.
Speaker A:I bet you have so many little things like that that you have learned from a hundred days of just doll sheep hunting alone that you probably don't even.
Speaker B:It's probably like, probably spent 100 days goat hunting and 100 days mule deer hunting, all backpack.
Speaker B:You know, I live every year, you know, between two and four weeks out of my backpack every year for the last 25 years.
Speaker A:That's what an accomplishment.
Speaker B:That's fun.
Speaker B:Man.
Speaker B:I love backpacking.
Speaker B:You know, it's, it is, it's like, it is true hunting because like, you know Dane good and well as.
Speaker B:As an Idaho hunter.
Speaker B:If you can have roads in a truck, your odds of finding a big buck are way bigger because you're going to use that vehicle.
Speaker A:Boom.
Speaker B:We're getting a glassing point.
Speaker B:Okay, we're going to glass here for two hours.
Speaker B:Next point, boom.
Speaker B:And you're driving 10 miles to the next point.
Speaker B:And when you have a backpack on and you're like, man, I sure would love to be on that mountain over there to glass.
Speaker B:It's three days away.
Speaker B:You know, it's like you have no advantage.
Speaker B:Like, you are like it is an equal playing field.
Speaker B:And then you throw in the bow and then you throw in that you're trying to kill something.
Speaker B:Boone and Crockett.
Speaker B:And now you have like, I mean, your odds are like one in a million.
Speaker A:Yeah, you have to be for you and the caliber of hunting that you're doing, you have to be borderline psychotic to.
Speaker A:Or just be a.
Speaker A:For misery, you know, and disappointment.
Speaker B:People, people over overplay things a lot.
Speaker B:Like people try to make things sound bigger than they are.
Speaker B:I see that a lot of social media, there's some really good storytellers out there and I appreciate them because they bring people to sport, they make it look cool.
Speaker B:But when I look at what they're doing, I mean, yeah, they're backpacking, whatever, but they're killing like a half mature animal.
Speaker B:A lot of times you're using a rifle, whatever.
Speaker B:Like, in my mind I'm like, dude, that's not hard what you're doing there.
Speaker B:And you're telling this story and you're making it look really cool and really rugged and really awesome.
Speaker B:But I know the truth.
Speaker B:What you're doing is not hard.
Speaker B:But when you like literally are going after something, Boone and Crockett with a backpack in your bow, like you're talking like, I mean, there are more 7 foot tall human beings than there are people who have killed something.
Speaker B:Boone and Crockett no shit.
Speaker B:One, one.
Speaker B:And I've now killed 10 species, Boone and Crockett with my bow.
Speaker B:All time.
Speaker B:And I know what it takes.
Speaker B:Every one of those I bled for.
Speaker B:I mean, I averaged like tremendous numbers of days, like my Sitka blocktail.
Speaker B:So I, I did that hunt over three years old, self guided.
Speaker B:I get dropped in Alaska with my backpack with my son, who is 16 when we started.
Speaker B:And we would, we would hike into the mountains of southeast Alaska where it rains seven days a week, 24 hours a day.
Speaker B:And we would go, you know, 12 to 14 days every year.
Speaker B:And we did that three years in a row.
Speaker B:And every hunt I passed over 150 different bucks.
Speaker B:And I killed the biggest buck we saw each year.
Speaker B:My son killed a great buck too.
Speaker B:And then finally that last year, we killed the Boone and Crockett buck.
Speaker B:And the thing is like the things I saw and the things I was able to do because I wouldn't shoot all the other bucks I saw, like, I experienced 10 times of what everybody else could experience.
Speaker B:And we finally got it done.
Speaker B:But man, I'm telling you, it was so freaking hard.
Speaker B:It was hard, but you look back on it and you just remember, like when you do something, you know, you look back at like if you ran a marathon or whatever, you think that was so awesome.
Speaker B:You don't remember how miserable.
Speaker B:Somehow our brain turns that misery into like something you're proud of.
Speaker B:And it's like amazing, you know?
Speaker B:But I will say that.
Speaker B:Trophy hunting.
Speaker B:Like, so one time I was, I was brown bear hunting on Kodiak, and we're after a giant bear and, and we saw a few really good bears, like really nice, like nine and a half pushing ten foot.
Speaker B:Like they might have been booked, but we passed them, right?
Speaker B:And, and then we saw like a mega bear.
Speaker B:Like, and this was like on day 10, we see this man, like this dude, this thing is ten and a half feet.
Speaker B:He's probably got a 29 inch to 30 inch skull.
Speaker B:Like, he's the guy, the outfitter.
Speaker B:I mean, he's, he is a bear guide.
Speaker B:Like he's done his entire life.
Speaker B:He said he sees a bear like this every three or four years.
Speaker B:Okay, one, like he sees one every three or four years, right?
Speaker B:So we put on this stock and, and you know, we, the bear's moving and we put a guy up on the hill trying to signal and we're trying to intercept him.
Speaker B:And, and, and the guy, the guide peeks over.
Speaker B:It just, he just peeked over the wrong moment.
Speaker B:The bear happened to be Staring right at him.
Speaker B:So we got a little bit unlucky.
Speaker B:The bear buggers off and he walks across this hillside and we just see him.
Speaker B:He's freaking massive.
Speaker B:Like every step he takes, he just looks like a truck.
Speaker B:And there's a few guides there.
Speaker B:Anyway, one of them was pretty bummed out.
Speaker B:And he's a little bit pissy, like, bummed out.
Speaker B:And I'm like, what's wrong?
Speaker B:He's like, I don't know, man.
Speaker B:It's just with the rifle hunter, we would have killed that bear.
Speaker B:And I said, no, you wouldn't have.
Speaker B:Like, what do you mean?
Speaker B:He was standing that.
Speaker B:He's walking at 70 yards.
Speaker A:Killed one five days ago.
Speaker B:I said, yeah, that's right.
Speaker B:You would have killed the nine and a half footer on day two and you would have killed the nine and a half footercer on day five, and you'd killed the nine and a half Footer on day seven.
Speaker B:You would have never seen this bear if you were hunting with me.
Speaker B:So that's the thing about trophy hunting, man.
Speaker B:You get to see more, you get experience more.
Speaker B:You get to really learn the species.
Speaker B:You need to know how to judge them.
Speaker B:You know, I'm never going to look at a guide and say, can you guarantee me that's 200?
Speaker B:Because I better know how to tell these 200, right?
Speaker B:Because I'm going to hunt that species enough to become an expert on that species.
Speaker B:You know, the whole thing of.
Speaker B:I'm going off here, sorry, I might.
Speaker A:That's why.
Speaker B:Chaos, bro.
Speaker A:Go wherever you want.
Speaker A:We got no scripts here.
Speaker B:I'm just like venting on stuff.
Speaker B:But the whole thing with like the North American twin 29, right?
Speaker B:Like, there's 29 species of big game animals in North America.
Speaker B:There's actually a couple more, but.
Speaker B:But generally it's called the North American 29.
Speaker B:Like, people are on this quest to go kill all 29 species in North America.
Speaker B:And it's amazing because you get to go to all these.
Speaker B:You go polar bear hunting with the Inuits, like, like amazing things.
Speaker B:Like you get to see all of North America while you're chasing these 29 animals.
Speaker B:And it's awesome.
Speaker B:So nothing against anybody who's on that quest, but when I do it, what I'm doing, I have to go back for that same species, like 10 times for that one because I want to kill a Boone and Crockett.
Speaker B:So I get it, truly.
Speaker B:It's not like I just get to go there once and shoot something and say, I got that one right.
Speaker B:Because most of these guys will kill it in one trip.
Speaker B:Even with a bow, it's not that hard to kill something.
Speaker B:Like, it's like if you're a decent bow hunter, you're going to go kill.
Speaker A:Something and most guys are just going to put it on the ground just because, I mean, they don't want to check that off.
Speaker B:They want to check that off.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I'm going deep on this.
Speaker B:Like, we're talking deep water.
Speaker B:Like, I have to like find a boon.
Speaker B:Like again, there's more seven foot people on earth than have killed one Booner.
Speaker B:Here's an, here's an example.
Speaker B:Like there's.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:23 Million hunting tags sold in North America every year.
Speaker B:Guess how many Booners are killed.
Speaker B:That's 23 million 530.
Speaker B:500.
Speaker A:Oh, fuck.
Speaker A:I was way off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So 30.
Speaker B:But still.
Speaker B:But you're talking.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, okay, now what you're saying, that's.
Speaker A:Samsonite, but they Way off.
Speaker B:So, but think about it.
Speaker B:23 Million chances.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:To kill a Boone and Crockett Animal.
Speaker B: And: Speaker B:That's an incredibly low number.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So your odds are like an idiot.
Speaker B:Your odds are like whatever the math is on that, you know, 1 in 5,000 or whatever that is.
Speaker B:So, so, like I'll just argue.
Speaker B:I mean, whatever.
Speaker B:Everybody does.
Speaker B:I, I think The North American 29 is an amazing quest and everybody should try to do it.
Speaker B:I'm just saying that the way I'm doing it is cool because I get a. I have to go deep on each species.
Speaker B:I have to learn it, I have to go back over and over and over again.
Speaker B:Sometimes I get lucky.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, like in my bison hunt, I, I opening morning, I shot a Boone and Crockett, actually the Utah state record bison opening morning.
Speaker B:Like, I got so freaking lucky.
Speaker B:Unbelievably lucky.
Speaker B:And sometimes that happens.
Speaker B:You hunt enough, sometimes you'll get lucky.
Speaker A:And you take them.
Speaker B:Absolutely grateful.
Speaker A:Take them every time.
Speaker B:Because sometimes you're unlucky.
Speaker B:And there's enough of those.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I've had those clients.
Speaker A:We're like, what's the first morning?
Speaker A:I don't give a.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:Burn that.
Speaker A:You're not gonna take.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because you know, you hear the.
Speaker A:Well, if you shoot it on the, the first day or you shoot on the last day, shoot it on the first day.
Speaker A:You always hear that.
Speaker B:I don't understand that.
Speaker A:I don't either.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What is that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I never added that up to me,.
Speaker A:But no, it's because like I wouldn't have shot on the first day and I'm not gonna shoot it on the last.
Speaker A:I've already passed it.
Speaker A:But it was one of those, like, you're.
Speaker A:We're not gonna probably get much bigger this.
Speaker A:But those guys always crack me up.
Speaker A:They're like, you sure it's the first day?
Speaker A:And I'm like, they're like, well, we're, we're here for a week.
Speaker A:You sure?
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah, yeah, get, take that opportunity.
Speaker B:Well, sometimes you second guess yourself because you're like, am I really seeing one this big on the first day?
Speaker B:Because it's happened a couple times for me.
Speaker B:And it's like you almost don't shoot because you're like, am I like playing with my own brain here, talking myself into saying seeing something I'm not seeing?
Speaker A:I have a great story about that.
Speaker A:One of those.
Speaker A:I had had an awesome client he rifle season.
Speaker A:He was a local.
Speaker A:And so my first client killed out and I already had his him ready to go.
Speaker A:And so I call him like, hey, we're heading back to town.
Speaker A:Get here.
Speaker A:You know, And I might not have been the greatest thing, but I'd always, hey, I, I got it.
Speaker A:I'm sitting on a giant.
Speaker A:Get here.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:Because it speeds them up because if you could get them get more time.
Speaker A:Because where I was at the time, they're only two week seasons.
Speaker A:So if he could get an extra two or three days, it's like, hey, sit on giant.
Speaker A:Get here.
Speaker A:So he burns down that night and so.
Speaker B:And were you sitting at a giant?
Speaker A:No, I just wanted to get him in because I'm trying to get him tagged out so I, I could have some time off to go home for myself.
Speaker A:And so he gets in that night, there was like two hours of light left.
Speaker A:And we're sitting at the hotel like, like, are you dialed your rifle good?
Speaker A:I'm like, you drove everything.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker A:He's like, I'm ready to go.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:He actually just finished a doll sheep hunt two weeks prior.
Speaker A:Shot a doll at like 890 or something like that.
Speaker A:One shot pins it.
Speaker A:So this dude's a shooter.
Speaker A:I'm like, well, get your gun, get your orange, let's just go for a drive.
Speaker A:And we drive and I had been sitting on this field, this spot for the whole entire season.
Speaker A:I checked it.
Speaker A:It was one of those, I'm sure you have, where you saw something at one point and it ingrains into that location.
Speaker A:You Know every time you go through there, you're like, you have to slow down and look just in case that animals back.
Speaker B:It's good because big luck, big bucks live where big bucks live.
Speaker B:So if you've seen one there once, it'll be back.
Speaker B:Or another one roll through.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So it's one of those.
Speaker A:And so this was the year prior I had a client blow it out and it never, never saw it again for the rest of that season.
Speaker A:So we're the next season over and we're the second rifle season in.
Speaker A:So I've gone through the whole shebang.
Speaker A:Archery, muzzleloader, rifle.
Speaker A:Archery muzzle, or back in the rifle.
Speaker A:And I'm like, let's just go check the spot out.
Speaker A:Let's go do it.
Speaker A:We're just gonna bomb out and get out in the hunting country.
Speaker A:And I pull up to the same spot.
Speaker A:It was one of those like, please God, just let that deer show back up.
Speaker A:I roll my window down, I see some does, and I put my bino up.
Speaker A:And this deer picks his head up.
Speaker B:Oh, man, that's the best.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, my God.
Speaker A:He's like, what?
Speaker A:I'm like, it's back.
Speaker A:And this dude followed me on Instagram.
Speaker A:And he pulls up the picture.
Speaker A:He goes, this one.
Speaker A:And I'm like, I' like went a little creeped out that it was that deer.
Speaker A:And I'm like, yeah, that's it.
Speaker A:He goes, are you sure?
Speaker A:I give him my binos.
Speaker A:I'm like, bro, there's no mistake of that deer.
Speaker A:We freaking slipped in there.
Speaker A:He put four rounds in.
Speaker A:This deer ends up walking like 40.
Speaker A:Every one of them right in the.
Speaker A:Just right behind the shoulder was a 6.5PRC.
Speaker A:And this mule deer was just so rotted up, it just took them all anyways.
Speaker A:Walks up, piles up.
Speaker A:That deer ended up going 222 with a broken main beam.
Speaker A:Had like 16 scorable browse on it.
Speaker A:It was one of the craziest years.
Speaker A:But the just the how is one of those first.
Speaker A:His season didn't even start till the night, or his hunt didn't even technically start till the next day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So he was.
Speaker A:He was done.
Speaker A:Done a day early.
Speaker A:And I was like, take this.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:We're going after.
Speaker B:This is the best.
Speaker A:And I was not leaving that deer.
Speaker A:I would have slept on it all night if I had to.
Speaker A:There was no way I was letting that one get away.
Speaker B:Your bluff paid off.
Speaker A:Oh, I mean, I knew I was gonna find so I could turn anything up.
Speaker A:Out there.
Speaker A:It wasn't say it was going to be a giant or even like oh my small moved on.
Speaker A:But yeah, it was one of those where I saw it pick its head up and it kept walking out and it was like just the rat coming out of this, this little drainage and oh man, I was like, it's back.
Speaker A:It was one of those unforgettable deers you just had everywhere.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was really cool.
Speaker A:Man.
Speaker A:I bet you got some wild ass mountain stories.
Speaker A:You've been caught in a storm.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like every time a blizzard.
Speaker A:Have you been caught in any gnarly storms where you're trapped?
Speaker B:I've so on the coast of B.C.
Speaker B:And Alaska you get, you get like fogged in.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Non stop.
Speaker B:And I mean that.
Speaker B:It's like when I plan a 10 day hunt, I know six or seven of those days I'll be in my tent.
Speaker B:No, because you can't hunt in the fog.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's the worst.
Speaker B:You walk around, you can see 30, 40 yards, like and the thing about the coast is the clouds coming in off the ocean are at a level where they hit the mountain.
Speaker B:So it's not really fog, it's the actual rain clouds just sitting on top of the mountain and then they get broken up and then the, the mountains, you know, you know, inland aways don't get hit like that.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean I've spent, I've gone up, I've backpacked up and for 10 days and spent nine out of 10 days in the tent.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker A:What does that do to your psyche?
Speaker B:Oh, it's, it's brutal, man.
Speaker B:You just, I mean, you know, it's just one of those things you got to tough it out, but you just wish you could be outside.
Speaker B:You wish.
Speaker B:You get like almost bed sores like just laying there, you know.
Speaker B:And like you get out and it's just raining on you and you can't see anything.
Speaker B:There's no reason to get out.
Speaker A:You could only do so many laps around camp.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, you know, you, you bring like audio books or whatever and, and, but you know, I, I'd say, you know, one, one interesting one interesting time I got stranded on Adak island.
Speaker B:So Adak island, this, this place is wild.
Speaker B:If you ever get the chance to go to Adak island, so it is out on the Aleutian island chain.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So that's like, well, you know, like the greatest catch kind of stuff, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's further west than Hawaii.
Speaker B:That's how far out it is.
Speaker B:It's like right off the coast of Russia.
Speaker A:I was gonna say.
Speaker A:How close to Russia?
Speaker B:It's way closer to Russia.
Speaker B:I mean, the flight from Seattle to Anchorage is shorter than the flight from Anchorage to Adak.
Speaker B:Oh, I mean, it is so freaking far out there.
Speaker A:How big's the island?
Speaker B:Well, I would say it's like 25 miles by 40 miles, something like that.
Speaker B:But it was a Cold war military outpost, so it had 2,000 soldiers and their families on it way back in the 80s.
Speaker B:And now there's like 60 people that live there.
Speaker B:So it is the weirdest, funkiest ghost town.
Speaker B:There's two flights a week that go in there.
Speaker B:There's 60 people.
Speaker B:There's no hospital.
Speaker B:There's not really any restaurants.
Speaker B:And of course there's two bars.
Speaker B:Always.
Speaker B:I mean, always.
Speaker B:Because I mean, what are these 60 people gonna do with their lives?
Speaker B:Drink.
Speaker B:But the place is wild and there's.
Speaker B:And there's a huge military base there.
Speaker B:And my.
Speaker B:I was out running one day, like when we got back, and my son and my buddy went and explored.
Speaker B:They found like an insane asylum and all this weird stuff in the military base.
Speaker B:They're in there with flashlights, going through tunnels and.
Speaker B:Anyway, it's a wild, weird ghost town.
Speaker B:But they put caribou there for like, I guess.
Speaker B:I mean, they said it was, you know, to.
Speaker B:To like ha.
Speaker B:Be backup food for like the military, for the soldiers or whatever.
Speaker B:But I think it was there for the military guys to hunt for.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Because like, we're making these guys go to Adak.
Speaker B:It's the worst place on earth to be at the military.
Speaker B:Like, there is nothing here.
Speaker B:Let's at least put some terrible here's thing.
Speaker B:Go hunting, right?
Speaker B:But so we got a ride.
Speaker B:We found this, this guy with a boat that would take us to the southern tip of the island.
Speaker B:And it, I mean, it's not like 20 miles or whatever, but the seas out there, like you get the gnarliest weather and like giant swell.
Speaker B:And so we snuck.
Speaker B:We didn't really know what we were in for, but we talked this guy into taking us down there.
Speaker B:And we went down there and it was like eight, nine foot swells.
Speaker B:And we're in this 28 foot boat and it's like, you know, you go up one side of the wave, down the other.
Speaker B:And he drops us off, he's like, okay, well I'll come back when I can.
Speaker B:We're like, well, we want to be here, you know, eight or nine days.
Speaker B:Well, I'll be back when I can.
Speaker B:22 Days later.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker B:Yeah, because it was blown out.
Speaker B:Like there's 20.
Speaker B:20 Foot swells.
Speaker B:20, 25 Foot swells.
Speaker B:And we're like, every day, like, you wake up and you go, look at the ocean, please.
Speaker A:And then it's just these giant waves, giant white calves.
Speaker B:He's never coming to get us.
Speaker A:Used guys were stuck down there for 20.
Speaker B:We were killing caribou to survive.
Speaker B:Like, what?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he finally got back down and it was like 12 to 15ft.
Speaker B:I'm not joking.
Speaker B:It was gnarly.
Speaker B:It took forever.
Speaker B:It took us, like to get back, I don't know, six hours of just up and down these waves.
Speaker A:That's hell for me.
Speaker B:It was not fun.
Speaker A:You could have walked back.
Speaker A:I feel like only 20 miles.
Speaker A:You could have walked back in a couple of days.
Speaker B:It's true.
Speaker B:I mean, it's true.
Speaker B:And I mean, and maybe it's more than 20.
Speaker B:Maybe it's more like 30, but it.
Speaker B:There's a lot of water to cross.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And we had a big camp too.
Speaker B:Like, he dropped us off with a camp and we would.
Speaker B:Had to like, leave a bunch of garbage, like, tents and everything.
Speaker B:Like, we brought like a.
Speaker B:Like a, like a wall tent type.
Speaker A:Oh, yes.
Speaker A:You guys were ready?
Speaker A:Yeah, we prepared.
Speaker B:I mean, we figured a boat was dropping us off.
Speaker B:Let's take some gear.
Speaker B:We had like, great gear, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But yeah, so it wasn't really that easy to get back, but that was gnarly.
Speaker B:And my son.
Speaker B:So that my son Jake was with me.
Speaker B:He was 16 at the time.
Speaker B:We had done that Sitka blacktail hunt in August, and so we were gone a couple of weeks for that.
Speaker B:And then we did this Adak hunt in October.
Speaker B:That year he spent like almost was 35, 40 days or whatever in Alaska living out of his backpack, basically as a 16 year old.
Speaker B:How cool is that?
Speaker A:Incredible.
Speaker B:I mean, what did my son.
Speaker B:I mean, he missed a lot of school.
Speaker A:Who cares?
Speaker A:It's school, dude.
Speaker B:What did he.
Speaker B:What he would have never learned the things that he learned at school that he learned on those hunts with me, like things that are like literally life changing.
Speaker B:I mean, he tells me, you know, frequently.
Speaker B:He's like, man, I missed that.
Speaker B:He's like, that was so amazing at the time.
Speaker B:Like, he was scared and miserable and 16 years old and, you know, these.
Speaker B:If my wife knew how bad the ocean was, she'd.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're not updating the wife.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was.
Speaker B:That was gnarly.
Speaker A:No, do you have comms with all it.
Speaker A:With.
Speaker A:Are you traveling with then with satellite phones?
Speaker B:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, that was.
Speaker B:That was not too long ago.
Speaker B:Let's see, he's.
Speaker B:Yeah, this is eight years ago.
Speaker A:Okay, so what's it like?
Speaker A:Oh, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt.
Speaker A:Go ahead.
Speaker B:No, yeah, so we had, like, inreach.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, inreach is amazing.
Speaker B:And inreach has been around for a long time now, so.
Speaker B:And SAT phones.
Speaker B:I mean, I kind of don't use sat phones anymore.
Speaker B:I know that.
Speaker B:I have Starlink.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I use Inreach and Starlink.
Speaker A:Starlink and change the game on everything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I've got Starling down to, like, £7, and I can backpack with it.
Speaker B:And it's £7 a lot.
Speaker B:But having that communication is really nice, especially for work.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You can split it between two guys, too.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it's not like, oh, yeah, three and a half pounds each and you have communication.
Speaker B:And I would take solar panels, and I can recharge everything.
Speaker A:And worth it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I can get about an hour a day of Starlink for a solar panel in the sun.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And until you're fogged in for a week, and then.
Speaker B:Yeah, then it's.
Speaker B:Then you got to be real careful.
Speaker B:You do, like, 10 minutes a day when it's foggy.
Speaker A:Hey, I'm alive.
Speaker A:Everybody's good.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've been there.
Speaker A:You're like, one bar left, and you got four days left on your hunt.
Speaker A:You're like, oh, what's it been like hunting with your kids?
Speaker A:It's been.
Speaker A:One of the greatest things for me is.
Speaker A:Is now focusing on them and watching them grow.
Speaker A:Not for them, just for themselves, but to be able to grow in nature.
Speaker A:And I feel that it changes and it builds kids in a completely different way than an Xbox PlayStation kid.
Speaker A:How have you seen your.
Speaker A:Your boys?
Speaker A:I don't know if you have a daughter.
Speaker B:Yeah, two daughters and a son.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And I've hunted with all of them a lot.
Speaker B:And my youngest daughter, she.
Speaker B:She just turned 16, and she might like it more than any of them.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, she loves it.
Speaker B:Like, and she is a killer.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And, you know, she's the one I mentioned.
Speaker B:She's, like, very disciplined and very structured and all that.
Speaker B:Like, I can't get her to shoot a normal buck.
Speaker B:Like, she's, like, at 11.
Speaker B:So that, I mean.
Speaker B:And I guess, I mean, she gets this from being around me too much and, like, hearing me talk all the trophy stuff or Whatever.
Speaker B:But we're, we're hunting in Kansas.
Speaker B:She's going to kill her first buck.
Speaker B:She's 11 years old.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you know, you need to kill like a nice little ten point, like a little 140, 150 inch deer.
Speaker B:And there's this.
Speaker B:I was hunting a big typical on this particular stand and that's all I was going to shoot because I thought he might book.
Speaker B:And another one showed up that was like a kind of a funky 6 by 4 with 18 scorable points.
Speaker B:It's like this monster, like it's 180 inch deer.
Speaker B:She's like, I want to kill that buck.
Speaker B:I'm like, no, you're not killing that buck.
Speaker B:That's it's your first deer.
Speaker B:You're going to kill a normal deer.
Speaker B:Dad, I really want to kill that bite.
Speaker B:Jane, you're going to shoot a nice deer.
Speaker B:We're not.
Speaker B:You're not shooting that buck.
Speaker B:What if it comes in?
Speaker B:So she gets her foot in the door.
Speaker B:She's a little mask about it.
Speaker B:Okay, fine.
Speaker B:If it comes in, I guess I'll let you shoot it.
Speaker B:Okay, so you're saying you'd let me shoot it?
Speaker B:I guess this is our little one.
Speaker A:This is how.
Speaker A:That's exactly how she's wired.
Speaker A:She picks until they find a hole.
Speaker B:I guess that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Okay, well what if I don't want to shoot the other bucks that come in?
Speaker B:I'm like, you're gonna want to shoot the other bucks.
Speaker B:Okay, so here we're sitting in this nice 150 inch deer, comes, I'm like, shoot that deer's like not shooting that deer.
Speaker B:Jane, that's a gorgeous buck.
Speaker B:You may never get another chance.
Speaker B:At least this year at shooting a buck like that is a freaking beautiful buck.
Speaker B:I'm not shooting that buck, dad.
Speaker B:I'm waiting for grit.
Speaker B:She named this deer Grit.
Speaker B:Like, Jane, we gotta go home.
Speaker B:And you're gonna go back to school here in a few days.
Speaker B:I don't know, I'm just gonna wait and hunt for her.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So we don't kill anything when we get home.
Speaker B:She starts in like, dad, we need to go back.
Speaker B:Mike, you've got school.
Speaker B:And she's way into her grade straight A student.
Speaker B:She's like way into like, she's like, you know, and then her mom's like, you can't go.
Speaker B:So she starts in on both of us.
Speaker B:I gotta go back.
Speaker B:We gotta go back.
Speaker B:She convinced 11 year old, good for her.
Speaker B:She convinces Us to let her miss more school.
Speaker B:I was going back anyway, so.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But she convinces her mom to let her come with me.
Speaker B:We did it.
Speaker B:We went again.
Speaker B:She sat and like 13 days into this, that buck came in and I mean, she was crossbow hunting, right?
Speaker B:She's 11 years old.
Speaker A:Gives a.
Speaker B:But she freaking smoked that giant buck.
Speaker A:How pumped were you?
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh, it was.
Speaker B:It's the most nervous I think I've ever been.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:She was making that shot.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I mean, I have an 11 year old shooting at a world class whitetail that, you know, any.
Speaker B:Any grown woman would like.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And she.
Speaker B:She heart shot that thing like perfect.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What a score.
Speaker B:With.
Speaker B:With.
Speaker B:I did a.
Speaker A:It's not your Boone Ox.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, it's 180.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know how you guys had.
Speaker B:Some broken points and stuff, you know, and to her credit, I'm like, hey, do you want to have taxiderms?
Speaker B:Put these points back.
Speaker B:She's like, absolutely not.
Speaker B:I wonder how I shot it.
Speaker B:Like, okay, cool.
Speaker A:Well, with.
Speaker B:If had like drop tines on both sides that broke off.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:So you're probably pushing close to 200 inches.
Speaker B:And if, I don't know, if you add it all up, I mean, it's a big buck.
Speaker A:In your professional experience, what would you put it out if you would have added things on?
Speaker B:I. I think mid-180s, you know.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Good for her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Really good for you to be able.
Speaker A:To watch and do that.
Speaker A:And that's probably.
Speaker A:You put the nail in the coffin of being hooked right there on the spot.
Speaker B:Yeah, she's.
Speaker B:She likes to hunt a lot, you know, but you know, they get old, man, and they get busy and like, she's like, dad, I can't hunt very much this year.
Speaker B:I got my school and my grades and my music and.
Speaker B:And it's just it.
Speaker B:I just try to communicate to her, like, Jane, you're gonna get married, you're gonna have kids, you're gonna have a career, you're gonna have this stuff and you'll.
Speaker B:You might not be able to do this again to hunt with your dad.
Speaker B:Like, we have to make these.
Speaker B:These years count.
Speaker B:I mean, so what if you get a B?
Speaker B:Is that going to change your life to get a B?
Speaker B:Is it going to change your life to not hunt with your dad?
Speaker B:It might.
Speaker B:Like, you're not gonna.
Speaker B:You're not gonna.
Speaker B:When you're.
Speaker B:When you're 40 years old, you're not gonna look back and say, man, I wish I would have worked harder in school.
Speaker B:You're not gonna think that.
Speaker B:You're gonna think, I wish I would hunt him with my dad more while he was still around.
Speaker B:You know that I just.
Speaker B:It's hard to communicate to a 16 year old that's like really, really set on her goals and everything else and that this is important.
Speaker A:I'm with you.
Speaker A:Then they get their mindset and you know how it was.
Speaker A:We've all been there is full of piss and vinegar and everybody trying to steer us in one direction and nope, I'm gonna figure mine out.
Speaker A:But that's been one of the greatest parts about having kids raised in the outdoors is the unplugged, zero distraction quality time that you get to sit with your kid on a mountain.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Waiting for this stupid ass animal to step out.
Speaker A:Step.
Speaker A:Get up.
Speaker A:Move.
Speaker A:Reposition.
Speaker A:Sitting there for six hours picking bark off of a branch, playing.
Speaker A:Would you rather.
Speaker A:And what the hell are the games?
Speaker A:We've gone over a million times.
Speaker A:I spy.
Speaker A:You're like, it's grass.
Speaker A:All the games when they're little and trying to keep them entertained and keep them warm.
Speaker B:And it's just there's a lot that they have to do too to like there's a lot of responsibility.
Speaker B:They learn there's.
Speaker B:So there's so much gear to account for.
Speaker B:Like you have to be places at certain times.
Speaker B:We got to check cameras, we got to do these, you know, we gotta, we gotta this huge list of things to do every day and you got to do this and you got to do your part and you got to, you know.
Speaker B:So like they learn like a different kind of responsibility and like it's a good thing.
Speaker A:I think it helps them for them much not in a.
Speaker A:Obviously as a dad, I don't want my kids maturing faster than they already are because especially in today's day and age It's.
Speaker A:You got 10 year old kids that look like they're 20, but they mature in a way where they have to start thinking ahead.
Speaker A:And I'm one of those dads because this is how I was raised.
Speaker A:Don't get wet, don't lose your gear.
Speaker A:Yeah, you forget it.
Speaker A:It's your problem, not mine.
Speaker A:Like that's how I was raised.
Speaker A:And you know, being waterfowl kids, you fall in, guess what?
Speaker A:Birds are flying.
Speaker A:You're in the bottom of the blind, frozen.
Speaker A:You know, my dad's like, oh, this is how you learn.
Speaker A:And then guess what?
Speaker B:Wearing his down jacket, a hundred percent.
Speaker A:Giant parka, just steam pulling out.
Speaker A:I'm over here dying out of some.
Speaker B:Rock in the middle of a River.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:That's how I've raised that.
Speaker B:You forgot your Walmart jacket I gave you.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Passed down, got it at a garage sale.
Speaker A:Armpits blown out.
Speaker A:You got all the drafts in it.
Speaker A:But that's where, you know, you show your kids and it sucks.
Speaker A:Especially having little girls on the mountain and they leave a glove or something.
Speaker A:You're like, oh, kid, now you get to feel what it's like when it sucks.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because now you know, to take care or you get back to camp.
Speaker A:Hey, get your dry.
Speaker A:What's the first thing we do?
Speaker A:Take care of your biggest lesson I've ever taught my kids.
Speaker A:Take care of your gear, and your gear will take care of you.
Speaker B:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker A:If it's wet, get it dried.
Speaker A:Because there's nothing worse than putting on wet boots, wet socks, wet gloves, wet anything.
Speaker A:Unless you're you and sleeping in it.
Speaker A:That would be absolute torture for me.
Speaker A:But those are the things, though, as being in the outdoors and hunting or fishing or being whatever.
Speaker A:Those are the things that start.
Speaker A:These kids start maturing and then you see them preparing.
Speaker A:Hey, we're leaving tomorrow.
Speaker A:You got all your gear up and, you know, the first couple of seasons I'd go through and we don't need this.
Speaker A:And, hey, it's going to be 10 degrees.
Speaker A:We don't need shorts, you know, that type of stuff.
Speaker A:But then now it's.
Speaker A:They're walking out with a duffel bag.
Speaker A:They're loading their gear up.
Speaker A:Like, you're sure you got everything?
Speaker A:I'm not checking.
Speaker A:I'm good, dad.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:But you see that maturity level every single year, just a little bit more than.
Speaker A:Not the fact that they don't need you anymore, but they're now becoming that hunting partner with you where it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're not babysitting.
Speaker A:You're like, hey, let's go, let's roll.
Speaker A:And then there's times we.
Speaker A:We park, like, especially for our bears.
Speaker A:We got certain areas.
Speaker A:I'm getting out, getting.
Speaker A:She's already gone.
Speaker A:She's already gone.
Speaker A:And I'm walking by myself.
Speaker A:And I get in, and she'll stop halfway up the trail, let me know there's a bear up this candy.
Speaker A:And I'm like, we're already on one.
Speaker A:Like, and I'm already.
Speaker A:I'm still at the truck getting suited up.
Speaker A:Because they know.
Speaker A:They know the rhythms, the routines, how to just prepare for things.
Speaker A:And I don't know where I mean through sports, obviously you can do that, but it's such a, it's such a niche little way to be able to raise children to be so responsible for themselves, their gear, everything.
Speaker A:To be able to carry out this hunt and not be miserable.
Speaker A:And it teaches them a little bit at a time.
Speaker B:There's something about the accountability of mother Nature too.
Speaker B:And she'll check you because you know, you know, you, you, you've been soaking wet on the top of a mountain with the wind blowing and you know that you shiver and you feel like you're gonna freeze to death.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And there's no amount of nonsense that could change that reality.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So when you teach your kids, like, hey, here's what you need to survive.
Speaker B:And they go out and they break a couple of those rules and they learn, oh, mother nature bites back.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It teaches them a certain degree of like common sense.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:That transcends just that.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:So like, you look at like, I swear, I mean, not to get political here, but like some ludicrous left wing ideologies that don't make sense.
Speaker B:They're like counter nature.
Speaker B:Somebody who sat on top of a mountain, almost freeze to death.
Speaker B:They know that.
Speaker B:Wait a second.
Speaker B:We don't break the laws of nature.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker B:Like this, this doesn't make sense.
Speaker B:It doesn't make common sense to me.
Speaker B:And I know that common sense is a real thing because I've lived it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There's something about outdoors people that they understand that.
Speaker B:I don't know if that makes sense,.
Speaker A:But a hundred percent makes sense.
Speaker A:Because that's one of the biggest things in our house.
Speaker A:One of my biggest phrases.
Speaker A:I have T shirts.
Speaker A:Make it make sense.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because you start learning things, you, you learn how the real world, how nature, how mother nature, it's going to function with or without you.
Speaker A:So you, you start learning.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Hey, no matter how much I'm gonna fight this, this is, this is how God created it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's how their minds start to think.
Speaker A:So then when you come back and you're sitting here watching the news and you hear these people talking and how they're trying to change biological genes in these kids and letting them do all this stuff, that's not natural.
Speaker A:And like, it's like that makes no sense.
Speaker B:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Make that make sense.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You can't turn a grizzly, a male big boar into a sow.
Speaker A:Like, that's, that's.
Speaker A:Yeah, we can't do that.
Speaker A:It's the same in nature and humans.
Speaker A:And so, no, it's Such an incredible thing to be able to just watch and.
Speaker A:And then you.
Speaker A:It's almost a sad thing with your kids where, you know, obviously we're a big rifle, we're long range.
Speaker A:I love long guns.
Speaker A:And so she's actually, this is gonna be your first year archery hunter.
Speaker A:So I'm super pumped about it.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But there comes that stage as a dad to where, hey, 280 yards.
Speaker A:And then you see them reaching.
Speaker A:They're dialing on their own instead of, you re level.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:You know how it is.
Speaker B:It's actually pretty incredible.
Speaker B:They've gotten there.
Speaker B:It's hard to get them there because, you know, I always.
Speaker B:I help too much.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You've probably let them, you know, suffer through that learning curve.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:That's how I had to learn because that was my dad.
Speaker A:And I do it a little bit better now in an educational way instead of.
Speaker A:I'll figure it out.
Speaker A:You know, you're like, figure what out?
Speaker A:I'm told years old, like, do I start a fire?
Speaker A:Do I go back to the boat?
Speaker A:But now it's, you know, but I. I've.
Speaker A:We spend that time with them and then that season comes to where, you know, I'll just.
Speaker A:I'll be behind.
Speaker A:I could be 20 yards behind her.
Speaker A:Be like, dial 2.8 and she'll be like, dead range.
Speaker A:And I'll just tell, hey, hold six.
Speaker A:Whatever it is.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But spending that time with them and then it's just.
Speaker A:It's just that bond.
Speaker A:And then you get to step back one day and you just watch them from start to finish do it all.
Speaker A:You're like, damn.
Speaker A:Like, this was that.
Speaker A:All these years of us hiking.
Speaker A:I mean, some of the worst hunts I've ever been on was with her.
Speaker A:Yeah, we.
Speaker A:I took her on a.
Speaker A:A youth blacktail hunt with my buddies.
Speaker A:He has a great outfit over there and he kills just giant blacktail.
Speaker A:I love big archery.
Speaker A:He's a big archery bubba.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But yeah, we went over and she ended up hammering her black tail.
Speaker A:God, it was.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was a shot, but he said.
Speaker B:It was a big buck.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's downstairs.
Speaker A:It's just got trash.
Speaker A:And it actually had a broken dropper on it.
Speaker A:It had broken kicker.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:Was beautiful.
Speaker A:And she hard punches this thing, I think at 700 yards.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker A:And what was cool is where it was standing.
Speaker A:It was an old logging run that all grown back in.
Speaker A:But we really couldn't tell at that point.
Speaker A:Shooting cross canyon.
Speaker A:She Hits it, goes down, disappears.
Speaker A:We knew it was dead, but we.
Speaker A:It took us hours to hike to the bottom of this canyon.
Speaker A:And then it was hours straight up in slush.
Speaker B:So everything's kind of melting across that canyon in a millisecond.
Speaker A:And I think, honestly, it took four hours to get to it.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're soaking wet because everything's melting and slush and we're slipping on everything.
Speaker A:This is a lesson that she learned.
Speaker A:Mom was like, take my boots.
Speaker A:And I was like, I don't think those are waterproof.
Speaker A:And she's like, they're waterproof.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay.
Speaker A:I get to the point as a dad to.
Speaker A:They get to a certain age where you're right, you're right.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:Well, they weren't waterproof.
Speaker A:So she's.
Speaker A:Her feet are just soaked.
Speaker A:We end up getting up to the deer hours later.
Speaker A:It was biggest blacktail.
Speaker A:I mean, it was.
Speaker A:It was an absolute stud.
Speaker A:But the lessons that we learned on that hunt.
Speaker A:But, oh, back to the shot.
Speaker A:She ends up shooting this deer center punches it.
Speaker A:You could see where the deer was standing.
Speaker A:And then the hole, the exit where the bullet went into the snow.
Speaker A:And I dug forever to try to find it out, but you and the deer just hopped off and went down.
Speaker A:But anyways, the.
Speaker A:Her packing that whole thing out and taking us hours.
Speaker A:And then it took hours, hours to get back to the truck because then we got to reverse everything.
Speaker A:Dude, she was so wet and soaking, and she's like, dad, my feet are burning.
Speaker A:And I'm like, take your damn boots off.
Speaker A:Let me see.
Speaker A:I grabbed her feet and I swear to God, the cold.
Speaker A:The snow was warmer than her feet.
Speaker A:Like, I'm ringing everything.
Speaker A:I don't like your mom set you.
Speaker A:Like, I'm just pissed because now I got this to deal with.
Speaker A:So I ended up taking my socks off, gave her fresh pair of socks, put her ice cold socks on, which is the worst.
Speaker A:Yeah, put it back in my boots.
Speaker A:But it's the least I could do.
Speaker A:And we learned a lot of lessons on that.
Speaker A:But that was one of those bonds.
Speaker A:She looked back at me and was like, every.
Speaker A:You know how you.
Speaker A:You're working your way back to the truck and you get.
Speaker A:You think this is going to be the.
Speaker A:Oh, there's the truck.
Speaker A:You know when you can see it down?
Speaker A:Yeah, it was.
Speaker A:Every time we would come out of a different area, we.
Speaker A:Every bend we would go around, we're like, hey, the truck's right around here.
Speaker B:And it Was not the longest hike of your life.
Speaker A:Always.
Speaker A:Yeah, always.
Speaker B:And this is why we hunt and we'll go back why we take our kids hunting.
Speaker B:You never forget these experiences, and you're just not going to get them somewhere else.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:The things that you're.
Speaker A:And this is where I feel.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't feel bad for the antis, but the.
Speaker A:The scenery, the people, the towns, the villages.
Speaker A:Backwood hillbillies.
Speaker A:The most random I've been able to explore and find and see on hunting trips.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's.
Speaker A:There's places I'll get into and be like, there is no way I ever would have found myself back here if I wasn't chasing something.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker A:And the people you meet and just.
Speaker A:It has opened up so many incredible opportunities or just adventures and memories from just the most simplest stuff that we would probably think.
Speaker A:But when you actually sit back and slow down and just enjoy being there and what you're looking and sunrises.
Speaker A:I mean, you have a teenage daughters.
Speaker A:I mean, dude.
Speaker A:I mean, it's dad sunset.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, my God, let's get these pictures, you know, so it doesn't count unless you're taking sunset pics, you know, so it's this big joke that a bunch of buddies and I have like, you know, teenage girl dads and we're all like, up sunset pics.
Speaker A:And so we'll actually take them and I'll send them to her, the mom, every now and then just to like, kind of make fun of them.
Speaker A:Because every.
Speaker A:You're in the middle of a hunt, you're doing like the most outdoors manly as.
Speaker A:And you're pausing for a sunset picture when you got your daughter with you.
Speaker A:It's just funny all the.
Speaker A:How everybody goes through life.
Speaker B:You'll cherish those pictures picture someday, man.
Speaker A:Oh, I cherish him now.
Speaker A:Yeah, I cherish them now.
Speaker A:Well, dude, I really appreciate this conversation, though.
Speaker A:I know we got to get you.
Speaker A:You got a meeting here.
Speaker B:Jiu jitsu practice?
Speaker B:Actually, no.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Who are you rolling with?
Speaker B:Egly.
Speaker B:Jiu jitsu and Boise.
Speaker A:Yeah, she wants to start rolling soon.
Speaker A:We're gonna.
Speaker B:It's a good gym.
Speaker B:It's a good gym.
Speaker B:Eggley's a good dude.
Speaker B:He's freaking tough.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I'm meeting with one of my employees who goes to that gym.
Speaker A:Oh, cool.
Speaker B:And we're rolling.
Speaker B:And then we're having business meetings afterwards.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I appreciate the time and the conversation, man.
Speaker A:I just wanted to talk a little bit about trophy hunt and just open people's eyes to a little bit of it.
Speaker A:I mean, not trying to change the world, but if somebody listens to this and, like, oh, okay, cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hopefully we represented a couple good ideas for people to see things and, you.
Speaker A:Know, so many of us.
Speaker A:Absolutely, dude.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:I appreciate you.
Speaker B:That's great, man.
Speaker B:Appreciate it.
Speaker A:That was great.
Speaker A:Easy.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Easy.
Speaker A:It's nice when people can talk.
