Transcripts
Foreign.
Speaker A:Please welcome the Strikeforce women's bantamweight champion of the world.
Speaker A:Introducing Nisha Take Down T. Behind all of the medals, the stages, the championship titles, you were kind of living a dark life.
Speaker B:Death by a thousand cuts.
Speaker B:Men would be like, oh, she's so strong.
Speaker B:What I didn't have was the strength to walk away from something that was toxic for me, but I think I could have been a long reigning world champion if I didn't have to go through all that.
Speaker A:Misha Tate, welcome to the show.
Speaker A:I'm really excited to have this conversation for a lot of reasons.
Speaker A:One, you're.
Speaker A:You're former bantamweight UFC champion.
Speaker A:You were one of the leading women that helped pioneer fighting in the mma, and it just brought it to the map across the world.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:So that's got to be a really cool thing to be able to look back on knowing that you were the tip of the spear on putting women on the map as far as combat sports and just showing what the capabilities were.
Speaker A:And some of the bloodiest fights I have ever witnessed in my life have been women's fights.
Speaker A:During that time, you kind of got into a dark relationship that lasted years and led you down some really, really dark paths and got you to almost a rock bottom stage where you contemplated taking your life at one point.
Speaker B:Y.
Speaker A:And so behind all of the, the medals, the stages, the championship titles, the rings and fans and crowd, you were kind of living a dark life.
Speaker A:Been trapped.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I think that is one of the misconceptions, at least with my story.
Speaker B:But I think this happens a lot with female athletes, you know, because you look at them and they look like the pillar of strength.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:You know, physically, we're, we're strong women, we're capable women.
Speaker B:We're leading a career, and for me, in my situation, leading a career in a male dominated sport, so a lot of women, and I think men would be like, oh, she's so strong.
Speaker B:But what I didn't have was the strength to walk away from something that was toxic for me.
Speaker B:So I was, yeah, I was basically so focused on my career, and I was.
Speaker B:I was more worried about hurting the person that I was with at the time than I was about hurting myself.
Speaker B:And so I stayed for way too long because in my situation, it was kind of like death by a thousand cuts.
Speaker B:You know, it's like a one more cut over one more day.
Speaker B:Like, I can handle that.
Speaker B:But, you know, to leave him, he made it feel like I was, you know, gonna push him off of a cliff.
Speaker A:And I was like, it's fascinating that to look.
Speaker A:And that's why I really want to dive into this because as a girl dad, I would be like, look at, look at.
Speaker A:She's got everything.
Speaker A:But in behind closed doors, you're.
Speaker A:You're battling some really dark times.
Speaker A:But it came to a point, you changed your life around now you are probably one of the proudest titles that you'll ever hold as a mom.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So congratulations to that.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:And you now help women figure out their bodies and through their own biological DNA, I guess, of how the structure of how women are through body and mind, which is fascinating because I'm obviously a girl dad.
Speaker A:And there's a lot of things we, we live in this world now where women want to compete with men and compare themselves to men.
Speaker A:And I don't ever understand why.
Speaker A:Because one, women are the most incredible thing that's ever been created.
Speaker A:You guys give birth and we have such strength and weaknesses of our own for males and females.
Speaker A:And so I feel a lot of people want to just.
Speaker A:You need to be like this.
Speaker A:You got to train like men.
Speaker A:You got to be like this.
Speaker A:But in reality, you're never going to be able to compete on certain things of men level.
Speaker A:But if you learn how your body works, how it develops, how you can change things and train certain ways, you can be an absolute incredible machine.
Speaker A:And how.
Speaker A:But based off of how women and their God, what is the word I'm looking for?
Speaker A:You're just biological structure.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So we got a lot to cover.
Speaker B:Yeah, we do.
Speaker A:Okay, so before we get started, we're going to send you home with a fresh loaf.
Speaker A:Sourdough.
Speaker A:I know you're a sourdough girl.
Speaker B:Just for that, we got you.
Speaker A:Every.
Speaker A:Every few weeks, we change out some pretty cool flavors.
Speaker A:We're about to drop the.
Speaker A:What do we call it?
Speaker A:It was the.
Speaker A:We do a honey bourbon peach.
Speaker A:Oh, the Southern bell.
Speaker A:That's what we call it.
Speaker A:So we do a roasted pecan.
Speaker A:We make our own homemade roasted pecans.
Speaker A:And then we get the local peaches from the Gem Orchard and we do a whiskey bourbon one.
Speaker A:So that one's gonna be dropping soon.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was one of last year's favorite seasonal loaf.
Speaker A:So we're gonna bring that one back.
Speaker A:So we're gonna make sure we send you home with a fresh loaf today as true fashion.
Speaker A:Who are you?
Speaker A:Where are you from?
Speaker B:I am from Tacoma, Washington.
Speaker B:And who am I?
Speaker B:Is always such a loaded question.
Speaker B:I feel like that is something that's a work in progress.
Speaker B:I'm a work in progress, to be honest.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't feel like I totally know, but the things that I do know, the things that are important to me, the roles that I play is I am a. I'm a God fearing woman.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So I have, you know, I feel like what I have is a great relationship with God, spirituality.
Speaker B:And I'm a mother and a wife and I think I am a strong person.
Speaker B:You know, strength is something that I value, but not this kind of stubborn strength that I used to have.
Speaker B:Now I have a flexible strength.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes strength is not about bulling your way through something or forcing something or overriding something.
Speaker B:Sometimes strength is about being, you know, fragile in a moment or really realizing it's okay to be vulnerable.
Speaker B:Like vulnerability is strength.
Speaker B:When you can get comfortable being vulnerable and you realize like I'm in a vulnerable place, but I could find myself here.
Speaker B:It's like such a beautiful place to navigate.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:The rest of your life.
Speaker A:I feel like my wife and kids probably set up this conversation because that's something as a man that we're never taught.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:That it's the complete opposite.
Speaker A:And this has been my chapter of this life is unraveling my vulnerability.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Being able to be flexible with, you know, being able to be this protector.
Speaker A:But it doesn't need to be this warrior with a shield up and a sword at all times.
Speaker A:At all times.
Speaker A:There has to be the times where you can sit and listen, sit and cry with your children or your wife or spouse and all.
Speaker A:So yeah, I'm, I'm right 100% with you.
Speaker A:And it changes who, everything, your whole every.
Speaker A:How you react, how you process, how you think of any situation changes at all.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think being able to navigate vulnerability and find yourself through it is.
Speaker B:It's a pillar of strength.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And once you get that start to dial it, you just watch everything start to fall in line.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think that for me, growing up as a kid, I mean, my mom always liked to have good conversations with me, which I appreciate.
Speaker B:You know, when we would have arguments, we would.
Speaker B:I didn't realize that at the time, but we were, we were engaging in Socratic debates and discussions and I love that because it was never a one way street with my mom.
Speaker B:It was never do as I say, sit down, be quiet, behave a certain way.
Speaker B:And she used to get a lot of flack from people like you let her talk back to you.
Speaker B:And she's like, no, that, that's not talking back.
Speaker B:That is I'm allow giving her space to tell me how she feels about something and I love that because my mom didn't know it, but she was cycle breaking back in the day because that's not how she was raised.
Speaker B:Yeah, my grandma was a, you know, rest in peace Grammy, I love you.
Speaker B:But she was a hard woman and she wasn't the most tentative or, or emotionally available mother.
Speaker B:So I think for my mom to be able to do that.
Speaker B:My mom, my grandma was, you know, she was a hard woman.
Speaker B:She was angry at men and she was just a hard woman.
Speaker B:She came over from Switzerland when she was three years old on a boat and she didn't speak English and she went to Catholic school where the nuns would, you know, crack the finger, you know, crack and just, you know, basically beat the kids.
Speaker B:And she didn't speak English.
Speaker B:So she got punished a lot for not being able to follow along with the coursework and those things.
Speaker B:So she was a, a bit of a hardened woman.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:Palace.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And not very available, I think in the ways that I believe that children need that parental attachment.
Speaker B:So for my mom to come out as level headed as she did, you know, with all her imperfections, but to give me the, the right and the space to communicate my feelings in hard situations was one of the most valuable tools I think that my allowed for me.
Speaker B:And she never let the rest of the world tell her that that was wrong.
Speaker B:And I think she's, she enabled me to have the kind of critical thinking mind that I have to be able to think for myself and say, well, I don't have to just shut up and like listen to what the world is telling me that I need to do and conform to.
Speaker B:I think that was the precursor for how I became, I got into wrestling.
Speaker B:I mean I was one of two girls, it was my best friend and I that joined the male wrestling team.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I remember going home and asking my mom and she was like, well I, I honestly am not sure that you're going to, to like this, but I'm not going to tell you that you can't do it.
Speaker B:And I said okay, great.
Speaker A:And she's like, is this high school wrestling?
Speaker B:This is high school.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So late in the game.
Speaker B:I was, I was a freshman.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So freshman year.
Speaker B:Never wrestled a day in my life.
Speaker A:What made you want to just start wrestling?
Speaker B:Well, I just wanted to play a sport.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I loved sports.
Speaker B:I think for me that was where I got my, my was where I was find myself, you know, where you learn to dig deep and you would have to overcome and you would get these victories internally.
Speaker B:And there was something about that that just drove me.
Speaker B:I loved it.
Speaker B:Whether it was track or cross country or volleyball or soccer, you know, there's always those moments inside sport that are hard to recreate anywhere else.
Speaker A:Anywhere else you're not going to get it on video games.
Speaker A:Now nature is going to teach you a whole different set of life skills.
Speaker A:Being in the mountains and all that stuff.
Speaker A:But as far as children, I, I'm, I grew up team sports hardcore.
Speaker A:Should have gone the whole college route and all that.
Speaker A:But I if team sports now I look at them completely different just by how these year round travel balls have kind of ruined everything.
Speaker A:So combat sports for me is what I am a huge advocate of.
Speaker A:And it doesn't need to be this crazy Muay Thai kickboxing, knocking the out of each other.
Speaker A:But wrestling, even jiu jitsu, just to get these kids to learn how to move their bodies, use their strength.
Speaker A:You watch a new kid life skill learn how to grab somebody and you watch, you realize my kid doesn't even know how to use their own strength.
Speaker A:But that comes from those types of sports.
Speaker A:And everything that you learn, yes.
Speaker A:Inside of that atmosphere is so important for children.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so I really love sports.
Speaker B:I really started to fall in love with sports in middle school.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And then I went to high school and I did cross country in the fall season.
Speaker B:And then winter came around and the only women's sport offered was basketball.
Speaker B:And I think another important skill set is to just know what you are not good at or what you don't care to be good at.
Speaker B:Like, like in all fairness, there are things I'm not good at that I care to be good at.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Like wrestling, I was not good at wrestling.
Speaker B:I was horrible.
Speaker B:But basketball, I had no interest.
Speaker B:It didn't do anything for me.
Speaker B:I was not, I didn't, I didn't.
Speaker B:I don't jump high, I don't have great eye hand coordination and shoot the ball well.
Speaker B:I was like, this is not the sport for me.
Speaker B:I don't want to be good at this.
Speaker A:Which is perfectly fine.
Speaker B:Which is perfectly fine, right?
Speaker B:This is why I don't agree with everyone gets a trophy.
Speaker B:I don't agree with that.
Speaker B:Because we rob children of the opportunity to realize what they're not good at.
Speaker B:And that's important to know.
Speaker A:False hope.
Speaker A:False hopes.
Speaker B:If you tell a child that they are equally as skilled as every single other child in the room, that is a Disservice because each child and each person has something that they are the 1% at, that they are great at and they should know that they should be able to distinguish that so that they can continue their life forward in the areas that they are passionate about and that they are excellent at.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Some of the greatest lessons that my kids learned in the fighting world were tournaments that we came home completely empty handed and had a 10 hour drive to sit and contemplate what went wrong over that tournament.
Speaker A:And those, those were the lesson, those were the ones that stuck.
Speaker A:It's great to sit there on the podium and you got number one, two or three, whatever it may be, you're going to learn lessons.
Speaker A:But when you show up and you think you're at certain level and you get checked the whole entire tournament and you're sitting there going, oh my God, what's happening?
Speaker A:Those, that's, that's when the learning occurs.
Speaker A:Not from everybody gets a medal and you have this little false hope and cool little Timmy gets a little, I.
Speaker B:Did just as good as everybody else.
Speaker A:Like, no, but when you're driving out the, when you're staring out the window for 10 all the way home from Vegas or wherever we drove to empty handed and you just going through and replaying where, where you should have, you know, moves and tactics and whatever happened, that's when I feel that my daughter's leveled up the most, was in those low moments because it's like, hey, this is, this is what makes or breaks the people that are going to come back or not.
Speaker A:How do we recover from this?
Speaker B:When.
Speaker B:If you listen to Andrew Huberman, which I enjoy his educational podcast and he talks about the importance of failure for learning.
Speaker B:Like the failure is actually what cues the brain to pay attention to how to do it right.
Speaker B:So if you did it right every single time, you would not be as good as if you did it wrong 50% of the time.
Speaker B:Because your brain every time will be like, oh, like it kind of jars you back in.
Speaker B:Like, okay, that wasn't right.
Speaker B:So now I understand how to not do it right, but I also clearly understand how to do it right better.
Speaker B:So those failures are so important and for you know, more than just the science of the brain, but honestly, learning how to navigate doing difficult things and not winning and wanting to be better and wanting to strive for better.
Speaker B:I think if you get first place every time, we get a trophy every time, you're kind of like, it just doesn't have the same value of like, that sucks.
Speaker B:I lost.
Speaker B:And I want to do better.
Speaker B:I want to win.
Speaker B:I'm going to.
Speaker B:I'm going to be at practice on my.
Speaker B:Be the first one.
Speaker B:We'll be 10 minutes early.
Speaker B:Like, that's how you get motivation and drive is through failure and all as.
Speaker A:A child and those.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:All of those little lessons like that is why it is so important.
Speaker A:When I talk to some parents and mentoring these guys and I'm like, what are you kids into?
Speaker A:Like, oh, nothing.
Speaker A:Like, oh, man, fine.
Speaker A:Well, they're not into that.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:They're not into that.
Speaker A:But find something they're into.
Speaker A:Like, she.
Speaker A:We started her out really early in Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker A:Two classes in.
Speaker A:She was.
Speaker A:Hated it.
Speaker A:Not for me.
Speaker A:Tried a bunch of other stuff.
Speaker A:Got out of the combat sports.
Speaker A:Somehow we end up finding our way back into it.
Speaker A:Dude, three world titles now.
Speaker A:All because we just.
Speaker A:You have to find that path.
Speaker A:And I'm not saying you just let your kids quit after where we set standard.
Speaker A:Hey, we're gonna give this two months.
Speaker A:I want.
Speaker A:We're gonna dedicate this amount of time for it.
Speaker A:After this time, let's have a conversation and see.
Speaker A:See if you progressed how you don't like it all.
Speaker A:The good, bad, the ugly, and if you truly hate it, cool.
Speaker A:But you're.
Speaker A:We're gonna find another one.
Speaker A:And it just.
Speaker A:We excelled in it.
Speaker A:And you never would have known without.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And I. I get some backlash on this because we forced our kids into a lot of things.
Speaker A:Like, hey, you're gonna try this.
Speaker A:You know, they get there.
Speaker A:We did the cheerleading thing.
Speaker B:Job as a parent.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And it was like.
Speaker A:But a lot of people don't agree with that.
Speaker A:Like, you always should let your kids pick.
Speaker A:Well, if you let your kids pick, they're probably never going to pick anything.
Speaker B:Or they don't have perspective on life.
Speaker A:They don't even know what the sport is that you're talking to them about.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So the.
Speaker B:The difference is, is that you should let your child have a say.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:But to.
Speaker B:To choose something that they don't even know what Jiu Jitsu is or truthfully, what it is.
Speaker B:Like, some kids think wrestling is the wwe.
Speaker B:They don't know.
Speaker B:That's how my husband got into wrestling.
Speaker B:He's like a pro.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:You know, grew up with his dad as a pro wrestling fan, and he thought it was pro wrestling.
Speaker B:And then he ended up, you know, going and getting a scholarship at bsu, you know, but he started like eight years old and he didn't know what it was, but he Found his work ethic through it, and I think it changed his life.
Speaker B:You know, he grew first in his family to graduate from college.
Speaker B:Good for him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:With the wrestling scholarship and then fighting and, you know, then we met, obviously, through the sport.
Speaker B:So, I mean, there's so many amazing things I think that can come from.
Speaker B:From sport, and I will say is that I believe that as a parent, you should not let your kid quit on a bad day.
Speaker B:Nope, you let them quit on a good day.
Speaker B:And that's what the.
Speaker B:Having the say.
Speaker B:And that doesn't mean, like, you know, we set the standards, too.
Speaker B:So my daughter, for example, she doesn't love Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:She's a very strong girl, physically strong.
Speaker B:So I've been thinking, you know, we're.
Speaker B:We're going to get her into lifting.
Speaker B:Like, I'm going to get her into, like, powerlifting.
Speaker B:I'm not saying I have goals or aspirations for her to, like, be super competitive at a young age with powerlifting, but she likes to lift, lift her friends.
Speaker B:She loves to lift weights.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, you know what?
Speaker B:We tried Jiu Jitsu.
Speaker B:She got her first belt.
Speaker B:She'd have a lot of days where she would cry.
Speaker B:She's just developmentally a little bit, like, she's not quick on her feet.
Speaker B:She's likely to kind of like roll over her fingers and, like, do little things, you know, just get hurt.
Speaker B:And she's not mean.
Speaker B:She's like the sweetest child.
Speaker B:So she is a love.
Speaker B:But we were like, okay, if you get to your second stripe and you still don't like it, you can stop.
Speaker B:So, like, on the day that she gets her stripe, which is, like, a great feeling, right?
Speaker B:And she's like, I'm done.
Speaker B:And I was like, great.
Speaker B:Like, we really gave this a good try.
Speaker B:You had some tears, you had some good moments.
Speaker B:You got your second stripe, and amazing.
Speaker B:Now, my son, on the other hand, is like, he's thriving.
Speaker B:He loves it, and he's just developing so quickly.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, well, then, you know, some days are hard, of course, but we just keep showing up.
Speaker B:And he didn't like it at first either.
Speaker B:Neither one of them really liked it at first, but who.
Speaker B:Who?
Speaker B:Most people don't.
Speaker B:Everyone has the first day for sure.
Speaker B:I had a first day for sure.
Speaker B:I got my ass kicked.
Speaker B:And that's what a first day usually consists of.
Speaker B:So everybody has to start with, you know, being the.
Speaker B:The bottom, you know, being the nail, so to speak.
Speaker A:What's interesting about you Having your kids quit on a good day is.
Speaker A:I saw, I saw this stat a while back and it was like 60 to 70% of kids quit on the way home from a bad practice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And their par in the car.
Speaker A:That's where most kids quit in the car backseat.
Speaker A:Your kids do that on the way home from a shitty practice or a match.
Speaker A:And that's when, that's when kids break.
Speaker A:It's at their lowest.
Speaker A:I'm over it.
Speaker A:The parents I feel are so invested nowadays in these team sports because the, the cost of everything.
Speaker A:So that adds this whole other pressure.
Speaker A:Then they see their kids struggling and then it all comes like a head and there's.
Speaker A:Once that kid throws the flag in, the parents are just so easy because they're frustrated too.
Speaker A:Instead of no, hey, these.
Speaker A:This is what it feels like to lose.
Speaker A:This is what it feels like to be last.
Speaker B:And it's okay to be upset.
Speaker A:And it's 100.
Speaker B:Please don't tell your kids this.
Speaker B:Like don't be upset.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker B:You last.
Speaker B:Like no, it's okay.
Speaker B:It's okay that they're upset.
Speaker B:It mattered to them.
Speaker A:It means, it means something that's good.
Speaker A:Like I wouldn't want to lose a match and just walk off and be like man.
Speaker A:Because then it means they don't.
Speaker A:There's no passion behind it.
Speaker A:But if your kid is at that point where they hate it, I don't want to do this.
Speaker A:They care.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:At least that's how I look at it.
Speaker A:They, they truly care.
Speaker A:But it's just that emotions at the time, their children they to rape.
Speaker A:Crying out loud.
Speaker A:I'm a grown ass man and I can't even regulate my emotions half the time.
Speaker A:So we need some 10 year old kid in the back to just lost.
Speaker A:Like they know.
Speaker A:So that's where I, I feel so bad for a lot of these people because they just give in at that quick knee jerk reaction.
Speaker A:Like we'll find something else.
Speaker B:Their kids suffering and struggling.
Speaker B:And it's a, you know, a lot of times it's as a parent's reaction is like, oh, my job is to protect my child.
Speaker B:And you know we get, we've gotten in this mindset that avoidance works.
Speaker B:Like we can avoid hard things and therefore they don't have to struggle.
Speaker B:And like why would we want our kids to struggle?
Speaker B:But we need them to struggle.
Speaker B:I don't know if you've ever read the book the Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter.
Speaker B:I recommend it.
Speaker B:It's really good.
Speaker B:I did a podcast with him and he's just a really brilliant man.
Speaker B:But he wrote basically the comfort crisis is, you know, modern day world.
Speaker B:Like we are so comfortable in everything that we do.
Speaker B:We rarely push ourselves outside or our children outside of the comfort zone.
Speaker B:But in not doing that, we just do such a disservice and depression, suicide, all these things.
Speaker B:I think because sometimes these kids and young adults and even grown adults don't know that they can get through a hard time because they haven't practiced it enough.
Speaker B:So when you, yeah, like when you hit a really low point, it's okay to be upset and sad.
Speaker B:That is okay for your child to be bummed out and frustrated was not okay in that moment is to give up on yourself.
Speaker A:Backs.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So what's crazy you saying that we, you know, we put a lot of pressure on our girls in the early.
Speaker A:When we, when we discovered medals to the sport, all of us at the simultaneous, four of us in this family all saw the first medal and we were just like, this is real.
Speaker A:It was just giant three pounds.
Speaker A:You know, the, you know, the first.
Speaker A:Yeah, some of those medals were bad.
Speaker A:And so it was like bedazzled.
Speaker A:I think it was a Vegas one and we were hooked.
Speaker A:But all through all traveling, competing, doing all of that stuff, that was like when we put the pressure on because we'd always give our kids the goals.
Speaker A:Hey, what are our goals this year?
Speaker A:We want to do this.
Speaker A:If you tell me we're going to do this, I'm, I'm.
Speaker A:We're committed, right?
Speaker A:You want to chase national title championship, we're going after it.
Speaker A:But the pressure that we would put on our kids by, hey, this is the ring.
Speaker A:You're gonna level up.
Speaker A:Hey, you're a brown belt, but you're gonna fight black belts because no other color belts showed up.
Speaker A:All this pressure and pressure and pressure and there was times where she'd crack.
Speaker A:We build them back up.
Speaker A:But then she's out with her friends and they're having full meltdowns over some homework or boy drama or high school drama.
Speaker A:And she's coming home.
Speaker A:Like, my friends are crying in the shower over this.
Speaker A:She's like, I don't know how to relate to.
Speaker A:I did.
Speaker A:I don't understand.
Speaker A:Because her pressure from just her perspective.
Speaker B:Of what hard really is was level and, and her ability to get through it.
Speaker A:That, yeah, pushing, pushing and working for me.
Speaker A:The pressure of coming on as a 16 year old at the time, she's never even watched a podcast.
Speaker A:Get online, figure this out, get on YouTube.
Speaker A:You need to figure out how to edit.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:I can't sit here and be like, hey, kid, this is how we do.
Speaker A:I don't even know.
Speaker A:So I put that pressure.
Speaker A:Figure it out.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:We need to get this up and running.
Speaker A:Like, we're bringing this in house.
Speaker A:So to put that pressure on your children, such an incredible thing because you're teaching the world, once they leave your home, they don't.
Speaker A:The world doesn't give a.
Speaker A:How prepared your child is or not.
Speaker A:I would rather have that pressure knowing that they know how to push through it, that it's.
Speaker A:If they, hey, I'm gonna need to buckle down, grind through this phase and get over this hurdle, whatever it may be that life's giving them.
Speaker A:Learning it as a child, young teenager.
Speaker A:So when they hit that adult phase, they lose a job.
Speaker A:There's a huge setback in the life.
Speaker A:They're not going to just crumble because we've sheltered our children in our homes, Right?
Speaker A:As parents, that's our natural thing, is to want to protect the.
Speaker A:One of the hardest things is to let your kid take that step.
Speaker A:Knowing they're about to get just fed.
Speaker B:To the lions, but knowing that they're gonna fall.
Speaker A:They're gonna fall.
Speaker A:But guess what?
Speaker A:As long as you're there to pick your child up, hey, when you dust them off, listen.
Speaker B:I truly believe that the job of a parent is to teach your child to do dangerous things safely, 100 and learn that they can do hard things.
Speaker B:That is a phrase that I use constantly.
Speaker B:My kids, who are 6 and 8, they just turned 6 and 8.
Speaker B:And so it's.
Speaker B:It's constantly like, why, you know, why do you pick challenging things?
Speaker B:Or why do you do these things?
Speaker B:And I'm like, I asked my kids that.
Speaker B:For example, my daughter and her friend on the 4th of July, they wanted to do a concert in front of all.
Speaker B:You know, there's like 40 people there.
Speaker B:But they were nervous about it.
Speaker B:And especially my daughter's friend, you know, a little bit, you know, a different parent, you know, great parents, but just a different parenting style.
Speaker B:And she was so nervous about it, like, even just me watching.
Speaker B:And I'm like, that's okay.
Speaker B:Like, that is okay to be nervous.
Speaker B:I was like, do you know what nerves are?
Speaker B:I was like, that is your body telling you that this is important to you and that you're ready for it, that you can do it because you can do hard things.
Speaker A:Look at the confidence.
Speaker B:And they did.
Speaker B:And it was like, it was amazing, and it was so neat.
Speaker B:To see them work through, you know, that anxiety.
Speaker B:I mean, they're eight years old, you know, but they wanted.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They naturally wanted to do something challenging.
Speaker B:I was like, did you know that one of the biggest fears of any person is like public speaking, like getting on a stage and performing.
Speaker B:It's like number one fear.
Speaker B:I was like, so for you to be nervous about that is normal.
Speaker A:And to be able to.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker A:This at 8 years old or whatever,.
Speaker B:And you can still do it because it's hard and you chose to do something hard and it's going to be hard and that's okay.
Speaker B:And you can still do it even if you mess up.
Speaker A:That's why it's so important to push.
Speaker B:Your kids, push them.
Speaker A:Our little one, I've talked about it.
Speaker A:She wanted.
Speaker B:Then they start pushing themselves, and it's so cool.
Speaker A:And then they start you.
Speaker A:Then you start watching the them doing it or just step now instead of coming to you, they automatically are doing it or they want to practice or they want to show you more because you gave them a little bit of confidence and that when I say safe space, the hey, you know what?
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:We're gonna.
Speaker A:This is gonna sound like it might taste like it's gonna.
Speaker A:Look, whatever it may be, we're gonna figure it out.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This is our base.
Speaker A:Let's just start building from here.
Speaker A:And then once your kids do, you're like, oh, that was incredible.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's try this.
Speaker A:You know, our little one does rakes first year.
Speaker A:Rakes leaves.
Speaker A:She wanted her little side hustle business.
Speaker A:And so but door too.
Speaker A:Sales, just about.
Speaker B:That's a skill.
Speaker A:And she was so nervous.
Speaker A:She's terrified.
Speaker A:Tech, you come with me.
Speaker A:I'm like, I'll go with you the first couple doors.
Speaker A:And I'd not, you know, and I'd stand behind her and she'd mumble her way through and we had some doors and no, not interest, not interested.
Speaker A:And she start to get a little discouraged.
Speaker A:It was a fifth, sixth, seventh door, whatever it was.
Speaker A:I'm like, hey, we're going to go till we get one.
Speaker A:Then she gets her first yes.
Speaker A:Guy pays her 20.
Speaker A:20 For this little kid.
Speaker A:I mean, it was like Christmas for then.
Speaker A:That is all it took with not letting her quit.
Speaker A:Right now she has a little.
Speaker A:She has all her little friends.
Speaker A:They're all her little workers.
Speaker A:She's got flyers she's printing out.
Speaker B:She's 12.
Speaker B:This is amazing.
Speaker A:And now she's got reoccurring customers in the neighborhood that are Calling her, hey, that's education.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But just to get over that fact of fear now.
Speaker A:Now, I mean, we just had a bakery, farmer's market, that got canceled due to weather.
Speaker A:So we're sitting on 100 loaves of bread.
Speaker A:She goes and grabs her little homeschool friends.
Speaker A:They grab a cart and they slung bread through all the neighborhoods just trying to make a profit.
Speaker A:They're like, well, it's fresh.
Speaker A:So they went door to door.
Speaker A:They were just selling those for, like, whatever people.
Speaker A:Yeah, 100, right.
Speaker A:So people made out.
Speaker A:I mean, they're selling them for five bucks.
Speaker A:They were just trying to make anything off of it.
Speaker A:But the fact that the confidence of what she used was terrified.
Speaker A:And go knock on a door now, I'm like, where are the kids?
Speaker A:Oh, they're just.
Speaker A:They're going door to door pushing bread.
Speaker A:And it's just one of those confident things that when she steps into this young woman role, she's not gonna have a problem going to somebody like, hey, do you mind if I have this?
Speaker A:Or ask a question or take charge in something?
Speaker A:Because of what they were able to do, the pressure they're able to feel as a kid, failing, overcoming, accomplishing.
Speaker A:I mean, this, you're.
Speaker A:You're just setting your kid up for such an incredible life in the real world when they leave by putting all of that on them as children in the right mounts and things.
Speaker A:We might have gone a little too.
Speaker B:Hard in certain areas, but we never get it perfect.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:I mean, perfection's the goal, but it's never what you obtain.
Speaker B:It's just that journey on the way and not, you know, that' honestly, why I'm launching Apogee Boise here, because of that, like, what you're talking about, young leaders.
Speaker B:I want to create an environment and facilitate an environment for children to learn that what you are already doing here with your kids, you have it figured out.
Speaker B:I mean, I love hearing those things, but children are our leaders.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And they just need a little guidance sometimes from adults.
Speaker B:But otherwise, like, they are incredible little humans that are capable of so much more than I think we realize.
Speaker B:And putting them in a box of standardized education is such a disservice to what they're truly capable of.
Speaker B:I mean, your daughter's 12 years old, and she's already running multiple businesses.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That's, like, incredible.
Speaker A:And the questions that they pick up on and the customers, okay, so if we add this ingredient, then we're our.
Speaker A:That lowers our profit.
Speaker A:And this is a conversation I'm Having with soon to be 12 year olds.
Speaker A:But if we charge more than we make more, we're like, okay, yeah, yes.
Speaker A:But you know, you just can't.
Speaker A:But explaining.
Speaker A:Okay, you can't just raise the price on everything.
Speaker A:And you know, but the fact that my mind wasn't.
Speaker A:I'm not talking to my parents at 11 years old about right.
Speaker A:Profits and losses and okay, we, okay, if we do this, we got to pay them taxes on this and that's, that's living.
Speaker A:That's the real world.
Speaker A:And I mean I'm not turning our children into these employees out the gate, but they're learning those types of skills.
Speaker A:Meanwhile, you got Timmy sitting in a classroom that has raised his hand to go use the restroom and, and you fed him sugar all morning and he's cracked down.
Speaker A:Now the teachers think he's got ADHD and all the other problems because his little boy can't express himself because he's developing.
Speaker A:Sitting in a chair all day.
Speaker A:Built around almost identical to our prison systems.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:You're going to tell me and I, and I'm not throwing shade on public.
Speaker A:This public school system because I know a lot of people that's a huge escape for children to be able to get away from their homes and everything else happening.
Speaker A:But if you have the ability to be able to pull your kids out and sculpt them, preserve them in their innocence, this is where these types of programs it's, it is the most valuable thing that you.
Speaker A:We are blessed to be able to do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's incredible.
Speaker B:I'm so excited for it too because I come from the, the parent first perspective.
Speaker B:My kids went to Apogee Henderson.
Speaker A:Got it.
Speaker B:So I have two years of experience of like what it's like to be on the parent side and then, you know, moving here.
Speaker A:Crucial.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Moving here to Boise.
Speaker B:I think so it helps with the perspective.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Then moving here to Boise, I was like, you know, I want that, I want that for my kids and I, I not only want it in a.
Speaker B:You know, I want to change the atmosphere.
Speaker B:I want to add to the atmosphere.
Speaker B:I want to make it more of what I would personalize what I would like for not just my kids.
Speaker B:But honestly since becoming a parent, the degrees of separation between my children and other children is very small.
Speaker B:I just love kids.
Speaker A:Kids are so cool and they're fascinating.
Speaker B:They're fascinating and they're so inspiring.
Speaker B:I'm so inspired by them.
Speaker B:I hang out with them for a day and I'm like, I am just blown away.
Speaker B:And I'm inspired.
Speaker A:I have to have you meet this kid.
Speaker A:He's a homeschooler in this neighborhood, and you're going to.
Speaker A:You won't even know.
Speaker A:I want him on.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:How old is this?
Speaker A:How old is Kiki's friend?
Speaker A:I want to say his name.
Speaker A:Thirteen maybe.
Speaker A:Thirteen, maybe.
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker A:I want him on the podcast.
Speaker A:This kid's that fascinating.
Speaker A:He just.
Speaker A:The confidence.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He'll look dead.
Speaker A:He'll walk through the front door.
Speaker A:You're across the whole room.
Speaker A:He looks at you the whole way with his hand out like dead in your eyes.
Speaker A:I. I am so and so.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:The whole family will be sitting on the couc.
Speaker A:Just sitting on stool.
Speaker A:Let me give you my pitch on homeschool.
Speaker A:And he just goes on this whole rant.
Speaker A:We're all sitting and he leaves.
Speaker A:We're like, who the hell is this kid?
Speaker A:But within a day of my daughter meeting him and his.
Speaker A:In their little circle of these homeschool kids that roll in, they have a business plan already planned out.
Speaker A:They have all these little ideas and ways they're going to hustle over the summer.
Speaker A:And it's just.
Speaker A:It's a mindset with these kids.
Speaker B:Why can't we want that for fascinating.
Speaker A:You meet these children.
Speaker A:You're like, man.
Speaker A:Like, yes.
Speaker A:And I'm.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:It's gonna sound kind of like a public school bash.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:I understand where everybody is, but when you are out of the system long enough and your children aren't pulled into the trends in the system of the public school and you see how they develop outside of it in their own world, it is fascinating that you just.
Speaker A:It's night and day.
Speaker A:I can't even compare this group of kids to any other, because the way that their mind thinks, that they're processing situations, they're.
Speaker B:See what they're truly capable of, the.
Speaker A:Critical thinking that they.
Speaker A:The questions that they ask, you're just like, yes, yes.
Speaker A:Okay, this is where I want your mind.
Speaker A:It might be something completely off topic, mean nothing but the fact that their mind isn't just this textbook cookie cutter.
Speaker A:Sit down, raise your hand, do this.
Speaker A:X, Y and Z.
Speaker A:On to the next problem.
Speaker A:Even though you don't know it, the way that their minds develop outside of the system, you're just like.
Speaker A:Like, oh, here.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:This is why.
Speaker A:This is why when it starts connecting like that, it's.
Speaker A:It's the most incredible thing to watch.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It truly is.
Speaker B:And I cannot wait to see more kids Doing that because, like, I've seen my kids, like I said, from the parent first perspective, but now launching my own campus.
Speaker B:And it's going to be the home setting, which I've kind of told you about or whatever.
Speaker B:But we're on three acres.
Speaker B:We've got cow, we've got a chicken, we've got goat, lots of chickens, goats, ducks, all the things in gardening.
Speaker B:And, you know, so it's like the kids are going to be able to come, you know, connect with the land and the animals.
Speaker B:And that's, I think, a big part of education, too.
Speaker B:I think as a young age, I benefited.
Speaker B:I had chickens and cats and geese and, oh, gosh, lots of animals.
Speaker B:But there was a lot that I learned from taking care of animals and animal welfare and.
Speaker B:And that, you know, being able to empathize and care for and Lou, you know, gosh, you know, it sucks to lose an animal, but that is a big lesson to learn young too, for sure.
Speaker A:That's why I love 4H in certain schools.
Speaker A:I wish every school did it where you can, you know, show sheep and cows and pigs like that and rabbits, because there's, I think early on, when our youngest was a little, little, little, little, she had a friend that was in 4H and she started talking about, like, the birds and the bees, but she was able to explain it through rabbits.
Speaker A:And then our kids know it through hunting and the rut and everything that goes into it.
Speaker A:So that you're.
Speaker A:You're able to teach your kids certain life lessons through these animals without it being so taboo of just.
Speaker A:Okay, we're gonna have a sex talk.
Speaker A:When you have your sex talk with a kid that knows about breeding, I mean, my kids were breeding bearded dragons in this room at one point in our life.
Speaker A:And actually they had all these babies and shit.
Speaker A:So they know mating, they know the season, they know death, they know all kind.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, like, yeah, we.
Speaker A:Then we couldn't get rid of these things.
Speaker A:Nobody wanted them.
Speaker A:I'm stuck with all these.
Speaker B:The bearded dragon.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But it's one of those things that, like, it's not this awkward conversation because you're just.
Speaker A:It's just life.
Speaker A:Your kids know about mating seasons and breeding and habitat.
Speaker A:So it's just, It's.
Speaker A:It's another one of those skills that they just develop with.
Speaker A:And you're like, okay, cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, now we can have this talk.
Speaker A:I' mature talk.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:You already know the basics, but now we're gonna have the human version talk.
Speaker A:So it's one of those Things that helps out in the long run of this.
Speaker A:Teaching death, life struggles, feeding the shitting, changing cages.
Speaker A:And it's, it's just so much of responsibility.
Speaker B:One more thing is like, we would talk about, like doing the hard things because in our program we're going to have wrestling, jiu jitsu and our gymnastics built into the curriculum.
Speaker B:So that is physical education, learning to move your body, learning a skill set, not just working out, but actually learning that skill set.
Speaker B:That's a lifelong skill set.
Speaker B:So for.
Speaker B:I know that when I started wrestling, I was 15 years old, I was behind the curve.
Speaker B:You know, boys have gone through puberty, there's big physical differences.
Speaker B:And it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.
Speaker B:And I loved it.
Speaker B:I loved showing up for that every single day.
Speaker B:I loved working towards, you know, becoming better, even though I was so far from even being good.
Speaker B:Yeah, but just showing up every day and, and thinking, honestly, almost every day of wrestling practice, I questioned whether I was going to make it to the end of practice because it was so hard.
Speaker B:Like, so physically intense.
Speaker B:And not only, you know, not only physically intense in like running sprints and, you know, cardio and anaerobic threshold and all that stuff.
Speaker B:But I mean, the physical hand to hand combat with young males was, I mean, talk about a mental, like, you know, I was never the strongest person in the room.
Speaker B:I never was.
Speaker B:It was, I was never even about winning.
Speaker B:For me, to be honest, I joined wrestling and I, There were very few days on the mat that I ever was even, you know, what would, by standard criteria would be considered successful.
Speaker A:That's fascinating.
Speaker A:You just, just grinded through, Just grinded through.
Speaker B:I just wanted to be better.
Speaker B:I wanted to learn the sport and I wanted to, to, to prove to myself and maybe to the, to, to maybe to some of the, the guys.
Speaker B:I think that you would get the idea that they didn't think that girls could do that.
Speaker B:They just thought, we miss girls.
Speaker B:Don't do this.
Speaker B:Like, let's just show them how hard it is and like, we'll get rid of them.
Speaker B:And I was like, no, I'm, I'm committed.
Speaker A:Did your friend make it through with you?
Speaker A:All the way.
Speaker B:She did three of the four years.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I did four.
Speaker B:And it worked out really well for me because my junior year was the year that I was the only female on the wrestling team.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Anything.
Speaker B:That was the year that I got the best because I was forced to wrestle with the guys exclusively for sure, when they would kind of like partner us together.
Speaker B:But she was smaller than I was and so it didn't really help me as much as it did kid.
Speaker B:You know, by honestly, getting beat down by the guys was more helpful.
Speaker A:Her training partner when she was on her journey for Worlds was a boy her age and he was fast like a mongoose.
Speaker A:And they just beat the.
Speaker A:They spend hours up here wailing on each other.
Speaker A:So then when she would step into the ring, these girls are practicing against other girls and now she's, she doesn't know any.
Speaker A:She's not on a woman's speed, these young girl speed.
Speaker A:So she's stepping in the ring and hitting these girls with power and speed and they're just, they're like, what, what is this?
Speaker A:But it's for her that was just, that's her level.
Speaker A:Because she being natural, training with people that are better than you, that's the only way to level up.
Speaker A:And when she had these kids that are just wailing on her, I'm like, well, okay, it's the only way you're going to learn.
Speaker A:Like, good luck and just throw them in lines.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:But then when she would step out and go into her ring, I mean you could just hear a difference in strikes and weapons hitting and, and every.
Speaker A:All that.
Speaker A:It was just night and day.
Speaker A:So it's, it's a massive level up with your.
Speaker A:It is for a young girl to just train with pure boys and they could take you in like that.
Speaker A:Oh, there's, you can't.
Speaker A:There's nothing better than.
Speaker A:Because when you're getting into the ring with these young girls and they grab you, you're like, oh, this is.
Speaker A:Yeah, this is nothing compared to this kid that is literally trying to rip my head off for the last three months in practice.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And in Washington State, my junior year was the first year that they implemented a sort of a women's state tournament.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:And it wasn't truly state because obviously there were so many men and boys.
Speaker B:So they have to go through regionals and you know, districts and you know, they have to qualify for state.
Speaker B:But for us girls, and especially me because I was never like a super tiny girl.
Speaker B:I think I remember still to this day my very first weigh in as a.
Speaker B:Checking my weight as a wrestler as a freshman, I was 130.6.
Speaker B:So I was never tiny.
Speaker B:Like the smaller boys, they haven't, some of them have like a 103 pounders or 106 pounders.
Speaker B:Like they haven't gone through puberty yet.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:So like, if you can be a Smaller girl.
Speaker B:Like then sometimes it's a little bit more fair.
Speaker B:But like when you're getting to, you know, 130 and up or even, even 125, honestly and up.
Speaker B:Most of the boys are mature at that point.
Speaker B:Yeah, and, and also older.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because like if you're 105 pounder, you're likely a freshman.
Speaker B:There's not many seniors who are still 105 pounds because you're growing.
Speaker A:And it's one of those things, especially in the, the competitive world where the weight is such a huge thing.
Speaker A:You notice such a Dr.
Speaker A:Difference in age groups.
Speaker A:There's certain age groups where girls will spike, you know, and go through these big growth births.
Speaker A:And then there's like groups where an age difference in a year in the boys is just massive.
Speaker A:I'm talking 20, 30 pounds and 8 inches.
Speaker A:And these, you'll just start seeing those puberty spikes.
Speaker A:So depend depending on where you fell into those state, those phases, I mean you could be going against some pretty significantly larger human beings.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:I mean we were size, you know, we, we always weighed the same technically, but the body composition, the biolog, completely different.
Speaker B: my sen. My junior year and: Speaker B:So, so I'll explain that in a second.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:So I basically every year I would go up five pounds and by my senior year I was 145.
Speaker B:But we would weigh in and there was only two 145ers on the team.
Speaker B:And there was the team captain was the other, the Varsity 140 fiber.
Speaker B:And we had no 152 pounder.
Speaker B:So him and I would both weigh in at 145 and then they would decide depending on the matchup, which I still think was, you know, he was only chance of like winning points.
Speaker B:Okay, okay, so I wasn't gonna win points, especially on varsity.
Speaker B:Come on.
Speaker B:I've been wrestling for four years and I'm going against these, you know, massive athlete, athletic young boy, you know, young men.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:So I think they would pick the match that would be most likely for him to win and score points for the team because I was already a.
Speaker B:So sometimes I would weigh in at 145 and bump up to 152 and be wrestling 152 pound varsity males.
Speaker A:How did that go over?
Speaker B:Well, you know, I got, I got used to getting my ass kicked a lot.
Speaker B:But I was absolutely.
Speaker B:I was there to like, not give up.
Speaker B:So my goal wasn't winning or losing.
Speaker B:It was to.
Speaker B:To not give up six points for the team, only give up five to just basically not get pinned.
Speaker B:That was my goal.
Speaker B:So I got really good at not getting pinned.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Very flexible soldiers shoulders, you know, like, that's potentially dangerous, you know, like, so I get really good at that and I try to give up only five points to the team instead of six by not getting pinned.
Speaker A:No shit.
Speaker B:That was my goal.
Speaker B:That was a win for me.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:Okay, so you get into wrestling and start figuring it out.
Speaker A:You just weren't going to quit at it.
Speaker A:So your senior year, I mean, did you.
Speaker A:Were you really into the sport and wanted to continue onto other things or was this.
Speaker A:Was wrestling your only combative sport at that time?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, so I only did other running sports.
Speaker B:Sports.
Speaker B:I. I did soccer and volleyball and like middle school, but by the time that I went to high school, it was cross country wrestling and track.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So I did a lot of running sports.
Speaker A:So then where did everything shift for you?
Speaker A:When did you wanted to start taking this to the next level?
Speaker B:Well, I would say, let me tell you about the.
Speaker B:The state wrestling.
Speaker B:So my, My junior year, they implemented a women's state round robin that would happen during.
Speaker B:Which is just like four kit, four girls in a bracket.
Speaker B:So we would all wrestle each other.
Speaker B:No eliminations or anything to like get to that point.
Speaker B:But we got to experience being in under the Tacoma Dome in the big lights where the guys were wrestling for their state championships.
Speaker B:And that was.
Speaker B:That signified our state because there were very few women across the state that were sparsely also doing what I was doing.
Speaker B:And so that was an opportunity for us to kind of connect under the big lights after being.
Speaker B:Being, you know, mostly sacrificial.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, kind of lambs.
Speaker B:I mean, just surviving.
Speaker A:That's a great way to put it.
Speaker B:And so my junior year, I broke my ankle two weeks before and I was so bummed because that was the first year that they were doing it.
Speaker B:So my senior year I came back and I was just focused on.
Speaker B:I was like, I want, I want to be there under those lights and I want to win that tournament.
Speaker B:And I did.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So I wrestled all the girls and ended up getting the gold medal the first place.
Speaker B:And that was amazing because after all the hard work and, you know, know, defeats and never really being able to win against the guys that, you know, to be able to wrestle the females and like, okay, like this Is.
Speaker B:That was my moment.
Speaker A:That was your taste, huh?
Speaker B:That was my moment.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker B:I love combat sports, though.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love combat sports, but I had no guidance as far as, like, how to pursue going to a college that was going to have wounds wrestling.
Speaker B:And so I just.
Speaker B:My parents did want me to go to college.
Speaker B:I had a high school sweetheart at the time.
Speaker B:I kind of didn't want to go too far away.
Speaker B:I was, you know, lack perspective again in life.
Speaker B:And so I went to Central Washington University, which was just a couple hours away so I could drive home on the weekends.
Speaker B:And they had just cut their men's wrestling program, I think, the year before I got there.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So the wrestlers that didn't transfer out to other schools ended up making this club sport of mixed martial arts.
Speaker B:So it was on, like, Tuesdays and Thursdays, two days a week.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And my friend Rosalia, who's in my dorm, she was like, a karate girl, and she was like, you gotta come and check out this mixed martial arts club sport.
Speaker B:And mind you, I don't.
Speaker B:I didn't know what mixed martial arts was, and I think I vaguely knew of what the UFC was just kind of, like, in passing, but I wasn't a fan.
Speaker B:And she said, you've got to come and check it out.
Speaker B:But she's, like, wearing this karate suit.
Speaker B:And I was like, I of.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was like.
Speaker B:Like, I know wrestling in a singlet's weird, but I'm very uncomfortable with what you're, like, what you got going on over here.
Speaker A:I've been indoctrinated into a whole different world.
Speaker A:I'm not ready for this one.
Speaker B:Y was like, I don't want, you know, like, I was like, I'm not trying to, like, you know, do that.
Speaker B:So not.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:I'm just making fun, obviously.
Speaker B:I think all martial arts is.
Speaker B:Is great, but there are some that are more artsy and some that are more effective.
Speaker B:For sure, karate is great for, I think, teaching kids discipline, but it's not.
Speaker B:I don't believe that it's an effective, true fighting style.
Speaker B:Like, if you're in a street fight, you're not.
Speaker B:That's not useful.
Speaker A:Have you seen those?
Speaker A:There's videos.
Speaker A:We die because they're Taekwondo videos.
Speaker A:But it's a girl, like, when someone tries to grab me in public and then she goes, like, into her form and starts doing this, right?
Speaker B:I'm like, that's not really gonna work.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, you're gonna learn skills, but get what you're saying.
Speaker B:Saying Discipline.
Speaker B:You can learn discipline and stuff.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But like, let's not think that these kids or.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, people doing this.
Speaker B:That is really going to translate to someone who's violent in the streets for sure.
Speaker B:Okay, so.
Speaker B:So she's doing that.
Speaker B:And I was like, I don't know.
Speaker B:So I didn't go with her the first day, and she came back and she's like, you got to come.
Speaker B:So she was persistent about it, and I was kind of like, I don't.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:She's like, they're all former wrestlers.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, okay, I'm listening.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Yeah, now you got my attention.
Speaker B:So I went with her the next day, and on my very first day, I learned how to choke the people.
Speaker B:And I was hooked.
Speaker B:I was like, this is great.
Speaker B:I was like, you mean that?
Speaker B:I can take the wrestling that I normally do, but I can, like, bend people's arms the wrong way and, like, I can, like, I can add on to this.
Speaker B:I was like, tell me more about jiu jitsu.
Speaker B:I want to learn more than a rear naked choke, you know, and.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:So a random girl in a karate uniform that invited you to a mixed martial arts.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Class.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:At college.
Speaker B:I'm still in contact with her today.
Speaker B:Rosalie Leah.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, she's.
Speaker B:She was my dorm mate, so she was my.
Speaker B:My neighbor.
Speaker B:My dorm, at college.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker A:So she's the girl that's like, I know her.
Speaker A:I got her into this.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:From the other side.
Speaker B:I would not be doing this if it wasn't for her.
Speaker A:That's all it takes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then my friend Sharon, too, the one in high school, it was her idea to go out for wrestling.
Speaker B:It wasn't mine.
Speaker B:So this is.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:None of this was my idea.
Speaker A:Which is hilarious because we look at you and what you've accomplished and who you stepping into the ring against.
Speaker A:Ronda Rousey and all these other rivals and badass wins women.
Speaker A:And you, you would automatically think like, oh, man, she was.
Speaker B:She was groomed into, raised, or had family or older brothers.
Speaker B:None of that.
Speaker A:None.
Speaker A:That is fascinating.
Speaker B:I had very little family support.
Speaker B:My dad hated the fact that I wrestled.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't think he really ever went to, like.
Speaker B:Maybe he went to like one match or whatnot.
Speaker B:Like, it was not something he supported.
Speaker B:And my mom would try to go, but she worked a lot.
Speaker B:But both my parents worked a lot, so I was used to, like, not really having their.
Speaker B:Their.
Speaker B:At least my mom was always Supportive.
Speaker B:She was maxed.
Speaker B:You know, we.
Speaker B:We grew up not.
Speaker B:Definitely not well off.
Speaker B:Like, we struggled for sure.
Speaker B:So the first part of my life.
Speaker B:So my dad, who I'm talking about, I met him when I was like three.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So I, you know, the first few years of my life, it was just my mom and I, and we.
Speaker B:We were in a house that my parents actually still live in now, which is pretty cool.
Speaker B:It's like, never have moved in.
Speaker B:It's a beautiful property.
Speaker B:It's on five acres.
Speaker B:But the house at that time was very dilapidated, probably would have been condemnable.
Speaker B:And my mom was single, mom broke, and my dad was a Green Beret, so pretty cool.
Speaker B:But he was in the military.
Speaker B:And at that time, the military just didn't pay nothing.
Speaker B:He was enlisted.
Speaker B:So, I mean, it was like.
Speaker B:I don't know, it was nothing.
Speaker B:They provided the barracks and food, and they paid them, like, nothing.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:So that's why after he got out of the military afterwards, because of us.
Speaker B:And, like, he wanted to get a job.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:You're crazy, girl.
Speaker B:Dad, I appreciate you.
Speaker B:Good, good job.
Speaker B:You've trained him well.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:That one, she's like, you did be dirty, dad.
Speaker A:You let my hair.
Speaker A:I'm like, I'm sorry.
Speaker A:I got trauma.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's a trauma response.
Speaker A:When I see women with their hair,.
Speaker B:There are good trauma responses.
Speaker B:And that was a good one.
Speaker A:I didn't mean to rub, but I.
Speaker B:No, you're good.
Speaker B:So he.
Speaker B:So he got out of the military to start taking care of us, find a good paying job.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So at the time when I was really little, I remember my mom and I being back in one room.
Speaker B:So the power was shut off to the entire house.
Speaker B:And the upstairs, the roof was leaking.
Speaker B:So when it would rain, like, the water would come in upstairs.
Speaker B:So that's why we were in the downstairs room, which is now our study.
Speaker B:But we had.
Speaker B:We had a bed back there at the time, I don't remember.
Speaker B:It was an air mattress.
Speaker B:It was a bed.
Speaker B:I ate like Lucky Charms every morning.
Speaker B:Morning for cereal.
Speaker B:Like, that's what I had.
Speaker B:Like, we lived off of cereal and top ramen for, you know, quite some time.
Speaker B:And I remember she had a friend of hers, his name was Virgil, and he worked for the power company.
Speaker B:And he took pity on her one winter when it was like, it was cold.
Speaker B:It was really cold.
Speaker B:And so he came and flipped the power switch on and was like, you have to keep it under a certain, like, meter.
Speaker B:Like, it's gotta Stay real low and the power company won't notice that it's on.
Speaker B:It's like, don't be turning lights on in the house.
Speaker B:Nothing.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:So we had one heater, one electric heater in that room just to keep that room warm enough.
Speaker B:And there was snow outside.
Speaker B:And I remember leaving that room at one point and going to the toilet and the water being frozen over.
Speaker B:And I still remember that very distinctly as a young girl.
Speaker A:Is your.
Speaker A:Your dad living with you guys?
Speaker B:Not yet.
Speaker A:Is this your biological.
Speaker B:No, my biological father was not in the picture at the time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I didn't know him until I was five, so this was prior to him.
Speaker B:Okay, so we.
Speaker B:And we have a relationship now, too.
Speaker A:Your biological.
Speaker B:My biological father.
Speaker A:He's not the.
Speaker A:The Green Beret, correct?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:He was a musician, actually.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:Who did he open for?
Speaker B:He would feel he would die if I probably didn't remember, but like some big.
Speaker B:He's a rock.
Speaker B:Rock.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Guy.
Speaker B:So incredible, can just rip on an electric guitar.
Speaker B:And he's just so musically inclined.
Speaker B:Really, really talented.
Speaker A:When did you guys come connect?
Speaker B:I was probably.
Speaker B:I think I was 10 or 11 maybe when we met the first time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then from that point, was he in your life or was he in and out?
Speaker A:How did that go?
Speaker B:It wasn't like we saw each other very often, but he always would, like, send a gift and maybe like, I think.
Speaker B:I think again, I went over to his house when I was like 15, I think.
Speaker B:So maybe like right around the time I had started wrestling.
Speaker B:And then we started developing a little bit more of.
Speaker B:Of a, you know, more of a relationship.
Speaker B:And now we have a good relationship, you know, so.
Speaker A:So what about your stepdad?
Speaker A:I mean, I don't know if he raised your diet.
Speaker A:I hate using terms.
Speaker B:It's a term for people to understand, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, but I call him my dad.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's my, you know, he's my dad.
Speaker B:He provided for me, he raised me.
Speaker B:So when I say dad, I'll be referring to him.
Speaker B:And so I was about three.
Speaker B:He out of the military, got a job.
Speaker B:Then things started to get better because we were able to, like, fix up the house.
Speaker B:But, you know, hard working, blue collar mom and dad who didn't have money for my wrestling shoes.
Speaker B:You know, like, it was.
Speaker B:My mom would go without new shoes, like whole, literally wholesale shoes.
Speaker B:I remember she would get her shoes that pay less.
Speaker B:She would get those cute, flat, like, cotton, like, really inexpensive shoes.
Speaker B:They're probably like $3 at the time.
Speaker B:And she would just wear those things until the wheels fell off.
Speaker B:But we would always have, like, new shoes to go to school in.
Speaker B:Like she did, you know, like, she sacrificed and so did my dad, but in different ways.
Speaker B:Ways, you know, different ways.
Speaker B:And so when I went out for wrestling, I remember like the first half.
Speaker B:Let me.
Speaker B:I don't know, it was probably until like the first tournament, like, or the first match, I finally got wrestling shoes.
Speaker B:So I didn't have wrestling shoes for a while because it was an expense, you know.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And yeah, so that was a little bit of.
Speaker B:Of my childhood was my parents just working so hard.
Speaker B:And I think my dad and I started to butt heads as I became more like a teenager.
Speaker B:Now, my dad was raised from a very strict household.
Speaker B:I would say an emotionally disconnected mother, an overbearing father.
Speaker B:He was the only boy, so he had two girls and he was the middle kid.
Speaker B:And the boy just raised different.
Speaker B:That was where the out, you know, that was where the dad's frustrations or anything would go wrong or if he was double standard, you know.
Speaker B:I'm not saying that the sisters didn't have it tough too.
Speaker B:They did.
Speaker B:But when it came to like, the physical.
Speaker B:Physical, you know, the physical aspect of it, it was different for my dad.
Speaker B:I remember a story of my.
Speaker B:My grandpa, we called him Opie, was 6 foot 7, just a booming, massive man with a bellowing voice.
Speaker B:I mean, he could just rattle the walls with the yell.
Speaker B:Like, he was very scary.
Speaker B:And like, he put my dad through a wall at one point.
Speaker B:Like, I remember my.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I won't tell my aunt's story because I don't.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:I want to speak on her behalf.
Speaker B:I know that my dad's comfortable with me telling, you know, a few of those things.
Speaker B:So, you know, my dad, young, started smoking weed and like, looking for that kind of outlet of just like, how do I self medicate?
Speaker B:I think a lot of people who deal with addiction is more about trying to find comfort.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And like, I wish that people were a little bit less judgmental and realizing, like, you know, you probably haven't been through what that person is.
Speaker B:They are.
Speaker B:I don't know if you know who Dr. Gabor Mate is, but I'm a huge fan of his.
Speaker B:And he explains that as addiction.
Speaker B:You know, I think one of the addicts he talked to described it as like a warm hug, you know, like when they would.
Speaker B:They would shoot up.
Speaker B:It was just like.
Speaker B:It was like they would get this sense of like, love, like, and belonging.
Speaker B:It's like, man, like what human isn't entitled to that?
Speaker B:Now that's Ms.
Speaker B:Misguided, of course.
Speaker B:But you know, my dad was numbing.
Speaker A:That's the feeling, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It was just like back.
Speaker B:We need, as humans, we need connection, we need love.
Speaker B:We need something.
Speaker B:If we don't have it, then we try to self medicate sometimes because we're misguided.
Speaker B:And so I think my dad tried to do the same thing with, with weed.
Speaker B:And he kind of, I don't know, he got a little bit.
Speaker B:He wasn't a bad kid, but he got a little misguided.
Speaker B:And then he ended up enlisting in the military and that totally changed things around for him.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it added that structure and, you know, purpose.
Speaker B:And then he met my mom and you know, he was young, so my mom, My dad was.
Speaker B:He's like two and a half or three years younger than my mom.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So my mom was 22.
Speaker B:We actually have the same birthday.
Speaker B:I was born on my mom's 22nd birthday, August 18th.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we share the same birthday.
Speaker B:So my mom says she's forever 22.
Speaker B:I'm like, I'll let you have it, mom.
Speaker B:So I'm now older than my mother.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But so my, I was 22, so she would.
Speaker B:23, 24, 25.
Speaker B:So my dad was 22 when he entered the picture.
Speaker B:And a young 22, like a military, like not a, not an experience with kids.
Speaker A:Who is at 22?
Speaker B:Who is at 22?
Speaker A:God, I just found myself like few years back.
Speaker B:Back.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so he's coming out of the military and he, he was very fun.
Speaker B:He was like a big brother.
Speaker B:Like, he was like a playful, you know, very playful.
Speaker B:But when it came to like discipline and stuff like that, extremely like scary.
Speaker B:Like he was.
Speaker B:The yelling, you know, he never touched me because his, I think, you know, he knew, but.
Speaker B:But he did.
Speaker B:He was hard on my brother.
Speaker A:How many siblings do you have?
Speaker B:So on in that family dynamic with my, My dad who raised me there was myself, not by blood.
Speaker B:And then my brother was seven years younger than me and my sister was seven years younger than that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Or seven and a half.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we have like quite an age gap.
Speaker B:Gap.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So it was the same, same dynamic, a little bit more spread out.
Speaker B:But my dad was raised with an older sister who was a middle boy and then a younger sister.
Speaker B:So it was the same thing playing out with my brother kind of taking, you know, my parents were breaking generational cycles.
Speaker B:Cycles.
Speaker B:They weren't as, you know, intense or as their parents.
Speaker B:But of course, you know, there was still a lot that had to be worked through and not as many tools and opportunities.
Speaker B:So he was hard on my brother.
Speaker B:It was hard on all of us.
Speaker B:But thank God for my mom.
Speaker B:You know, my.
Speaker B:My dad's a wonderful man.
Speaker A:Good moms out there.
Speaker B:But like, thank God for my mom because she was the one.
Speaker B:Like, she was the sounding board.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:And she protected us in the ways that, you know, know, she did her best.
Speaker B:She did her absolute best.
Speaker A:That's why women are so incredible.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I mean, so are men.
Speaker B:It's a dynamic, you know, a lot of us.
Speaker A:I'm speaking for a military guy, law enforcement guys.
Speaker A:The, the.
Speaker A:And I fed men on where we talk about.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:We're raised in these worlds of just violence and yeah.
Speaker A:Death and adapt and overcome.
Speaker A:And you gotta.
Speaker A:It's just peak, peak, peak.
Speaker A:And then we get thrown in these worlds of families at young ages where you become fathers and it's so hard for a lot of us to be able to process.
Speaker B:Just become emotionally available all of a sudden.
Speaker A:And that's why I give so much credit to wise because mine is just like, no, we're done with this.
Speaker A:Like, they're not marines.
Speaker A:We're breaking these chains.
Speaker A:Like, we're not going to pass this generational on.
Speaker A:And if it wasn't for the good ones to be able to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Breed that into us, like, we would just be our dads.
Speaker A:Nothing changes.
Speaker A:And then our kids are talking about us how I talk about ours.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I get.
Speaker A:That's why I give.
Speaker B:Some of.
Speaker A:That's why I don't need to get into it with this whole like, boss, babe, feminist bullshit.
Speaker A:It's like, it just kills women.
Speaker A:It's such an incredible.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:The most fascinating, incredible creature to ever walk this planet is a woman.
Speaker A:And it's like, why do you guys.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:It kills me when I see these.
Speaker A:The agenda that goes against our kids and.
Speaker A:And these young women.
Speaker A:It's like, man, the biggest be.
Speaker A:And granted, I'm old school to be able to watch what my wife has done and how she raises our daughters in this old, you know, school.
Speaker A:Feel like, why would you not want that?
Speaker A:Why.
Speaker A:Why have the anger and the hate and everything's negative and it's just misguided.
Speaker B:You know, it's trauma that's misguided and it's.
Speaker B:I'm sure it has, like, good intentions because.
Speaker B:And I, I can not, not exactly relate to the boss babe culture.
Speaker B:But I can relate to the, the feeling and pressure that I needed to become what I didn't have.
Speaker B:And I think that's where these women are coming from is like that they don't have strong male figures in their life and because they never had the security, they try to become the security.
Speaker B:And that is a misguided attempt.
Speaker B:When you realize that you can relax into your feminine.
Speaker B:When you have a man who will show up for you and provide for you and you know, have some chivalry and just be a good father and a good man.
Speaker B:It's like, ah, like you could just like breathe.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I don't have to be all that.
Speaker B:That's so nice because it's like, it's really hard to do both roles.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:Oh, I could, I couldn't even imagine.
Speaker A:I couldn't imagine having to feel.
Speaker A:Feel of my wife's role.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like as that compassion, caring.
Speaker A:I do my best, but it's one of those things that's just so hard for me to just dump as far as a woman would.
Speaker A:But that's where it goes back to our role souls that where we were created as.
Speaker A:And that's when you know, you get a lot of.
Speaker A:I get a lot of backlash because we're very traditional here, but being able to be equally yoked.
Speaker A:But what you're saying is a woman should not have to feel that masculine role, shouldn't have to tell the kids, hey, be the disciplinary and all the other stuff.
Speaker A:That's where it comes into the man and the feeding off of each other.
Speaker A:And this is why when you start dividing the families in these women, women have to step into these roles and their husbands aren't.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:It's not natural.
Speaker B:They're angry about it.
Speaker A:They're very angry.
Speaker A:And the animosity starts to build and this resentment over years of you having to discipline your kids as the wife, you having to go out and chase things or have the initiative or ambition to go and pursue things while you have this man at home that's not taking any initiative or driver not being a disciplinary or not home because he's.
Speaker B:There's a lot of fathers that are not in the home.
Speaker A:This is, that's why it's so important to have a connect a joint family where you have each other's roles and have each other's back in type in these situ.
Speaker A:Certain situations and to not undermine the other parent.
Speaker A:It's going to be hard, you know, to be able to have that balance.
Speaker A:But it's so.
Speaker A:The role of a father, especially in a young girl's life, is.
Speaker A:It's so crucial.
Speaker A:It kills me when I see these families falling apart for the dumbest.
Speaker A:For finances or some stupid reasons.
Speaker A:And it's like, man, what we're able to provide for our kids in a, In a home under one roof is.
Speaker A:Is the greatest gift that you'll be able to provide to them.
Speaker A:But right now, like, everything's just divide us, divide us, divide us as our families and women need to be in these roles and men need to be doing this.
Speaker A:And it's like, man, just come together and yeah, it's all our kids need.
Speaker B:And so that's something that I didn't have as a teenager.
Speaker B:What started to happen was that my dad didn't know how to relate to.
Speaker B:To me.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And my dad started going down his own.
Speaker B:His own path in, In a sort of destructive manner.
Speaker B:So my dad has been over 10 years, completely sober, okay.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:And he, he had a mo.
Speaker B:He had a accident mountain biking and he, like, I remember he tore it his whole.
Speaker B:We were up in Anacortes.
Speaker B:We had finally.
Speaker B:I'd been begging my parents to take us camping.
Speaker B:Camping.
Speaker B:I was a teenager.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm like the only kid I know that hasn't been camping, you know, So I really wanted to go camping.
Speaker B:But anyways, he got into downhill, like mountain biking a bit.
Speaker B:And there was a log that fell and it was like there was a chunk that was cut out of it.
Speaker B:So there was still a trail.
Speaker B:But he clipped it.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:And he went overhead, you know, and so his shoulder was like down here.
Speaker B:We took an emergency room.
Speaker B:They put him on painkillers.
Speaker B:And the painkillers were something obviously that helped him because he, I mean, not having helped him, but the self medication part, right?
Speaker B:So there's still so much trauma that he had never unpacked.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of men can relate to this and I think this is a very common struggle, is that.
Speaker B:That we don't talk about how we feel.
Speaker B:Vulnerability is weakness.
Speaker B:We, we, we.
Speaker B:We've got a soldier on, right?
Speaker B:We've got to be soldiers.
Speaker B:That's how we.
Speaker B:That's how we show up best for our family, is we just shut up.
Speaker B:We provide.
Speaker B:We go through the grind and we tuck it down deep and we don't talk about it because that, that is, that's, you know, it's weakness and we need to be strong.
Speaker B:But, you know, under the guise of strength is, you Know you, you're falling apart as a human being because like all the emotions that humans have, that they are human emotions, there are no good emotions, there are no bad emotions.
Speaker B:We just.
Speaker B:You have to experience your emotions.
Speaker B:If you don't experience them, then I think you end up in a situation sometimes where you may end up in a situation like my dad, where you start self medicating.
Speaker B:You find something, something that kind of alleviates the pressure of trying to deal with those skeletons that are knocking on the door constantly and won't get out of your way.
Speaker B:So you can do what you think you need to do as a man and provide.
Speaker B:And so he got hooked and you know, for years, like he was on opiates.
Speaker B:And so he kind of became a shell of himself.
Speaker B:You know, he would come home, he'd watch tv, wouldn't really like have conversations.
Speaker B:He was there, but not there only providing.
Speaker A:And when you, that's sad when you really break it down, like that was his life.
Speaker A:That's a lot of men's life right now.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And you know, when he was present a lot of times it was only shaking him out of that.
Speaker B:And it was anger.
Speaker B:Yeah, he was mad.
Speaker B:You know, he was frustrated.
Speaker B:There were things that he wasn't dealing with.
Speaker B:And so it would come out on the family and you know, my mom and, come on my mom, it would come out on us.
Speaker B:So, you know, that's really what I remember of my dad was like at that time was.
Speaker B:I mean there was, there was a long time, like probably every bit of a year where I don't think that we really spoke to each other other.
Speaker A:Really a year maybe living under the same roof.
Speaker B:Living under the same roof.
Speaker A:Maybe her and I don't get an argument.
Speaker A:I go a day and I know.
Speaker B:But he was like, he was numb and he was broken and there was so much that he hadn't worked through from his own trauma that he did.
Speaker B:How could he be there for me when he didn't know how to be there for himself 100%.
Speaker B:He hadn't figured it out.
Speaker B:So like, I don't have any blame.
Speaker B:I just know like he was very broken at that time and that was a real low point for him.
Speaker B:And I think he just didn't know how to.
Speaker B:He didn't know how to show up for himself.
Speaker B:He didn't know how to get himself out of the hole.
Speaker B:You know, some of it had been dug for him and some of it he dug himself.
Speaker B:Probably unknowing, but he didn't know how to show up.
Speaker B:So, you know, he was just an angry, scary, unrelatable person to me.
Speaker A:Did that affect you at all?
Speaker A:Did you ever find yourself now that you've been able to reflect as an adult?
Speaker A:Did you ever chase that attention or anything anywhere else?
Speaker A:Yeah, okay.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I had major daddy issues.
Speaker B:I didn't have a father that was present for formative years in my life at all as a young child, and then, you know, not in the ways that were appropriate.
Speaker B:I think, for me as a young girl developmentally now, I loved.
Speaker B:I loved my dad, but when we became.
Speaker B:When I became a teenager again, we just were from different planets, and so he just wasn't available to anyone of us.
Speaker B:But, you know, we were angry at each other.
Speaker B:We didn't understand each other.
Speaker B:He wouldn't listen to me.
Speaker B:Like, my mom would listen to me.
Speaker B:He would not listen to me.
Speaker B:It was very much like, I tell you what to do, how to show up, and you listen.
Speaker B:If you don't listen, you are a disobedient child.
Speaker B:And I just did not relate to that because I was used to my mom, and she would always at least give me some, like, let.
Speaker B:Like, let's talk about this.
Speaker B:Let's.
Speaker B:Let's.
Speaker B:Let's hear each other's side.
Speaker B:My dad was moving militant.
Speaker B:He was like, no, you are a.
Speaker B:You are a bad child.
Speaker B:You are a bad kid.
Speaker B:That's how I feel.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Very black or white.
Speaker B:There was no gray.
Speaker A:Gray.
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, we would.
Speaker B:We would pass each other in the hallway, and we.
Speaker B:I remember, like, one time we.
Speaker B:You walk towards each other, and we would just.
Speaker B:We just pass each other like this, and we would, like, just turn sideways, just squeeze by each other.
Speaker B:Like, not even look each other in the eye.
Speaker B:Like, awkward moment, you know, of just, like, having to be in, like, such a tight space with each other.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it was tough stuff.
Speaker B:So I think when I went out for wrestling and I. I was trying to become what I didn't have.
Speaker B:I think that's why, honestly, I was so drawn to it was because, like, this was a strong.
Speaker B:This was a masculine thing, and I didn't have that in my life.
Speaker B:And so I was like, well, I wanted to protect my mom, too, because their relationship was not good.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Was he abusive then in the earlier ages?
Speaker B:Verbally?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Who would never.
Speaker B:He never touched, you know, my mom or myself, but.
Speaker B:But punch holes in the wall.
Speaker B:Walls.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Rip a door off a frame.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Scary.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Where you were, you.
Speaker B:You might as well have, like, I mean, it, it was so scary that it was almost the same as feeling like you were gonna.
Speaker B:Because you didn't know if you were.
Speaker B:Although it never happened, but like, you know, it was so scary, you know, thrash my room, you know, like if I did something, you know, and, and I was a, like I was a good kid.
Speaker B:Like, I didn't like, especially as a, like through high school and stuff, you know, I never like, I played sports, I went, worked.
Speaker A:You never like backlashed or, you know, rebelled.
Speaker B:And I mean, not, not in ways that I know kids do now.
Speaker B:I was pretty innocent.
Speaker B:I was pretty good at two shoes.
Speaker B:Like, I've always kind of been a rule follower.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I think because I had foundational love from my mom, I wasn't too far off the deep end.
Speaker B:Like, I always had someone I could talk to for sure.
Speaker B:I always had someone that could be there for me.
Speaker B:So I felt at a loss in part of my life, but I also felt very grounded and safe and other parts.
Speaker B:And what I will say, I want to give my dad credit in this, in this department.
Speaker B:I remember there's only story I've.
Speaker B:I've shared one time.
Speaker B:So this is something I'm recently like talking about.
Speaker B:But I used to stay with my grandmother a lot who, while my mom worked and my dad worked and there was this old friend of hers that, his name is Walter, who was a child lesser and she knew this.
Speaker B:But my grandma was.
Speaker B:I, I don't, I can't understand it, but she was a bit demented.
Speaker B:I, I don't know why she would have this person around.
Speaker B:She was not supposed to.
Speaker A:This is your grandmother?
Speaker B:My grandmother.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I was sitting at my grand.
Speaker B:In my grandmother's house and he was not supposed to be there because my, my mom grew up with this man readily available like all the time in her life.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I think you could put two and two together.
Speaker B:So my grandmother, I will, you know, I know better.
Speaker B:I won't have him over, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:Well, she had him over.
Speaker B:And I was sitting in the way that my grandmother's house is.
Speaker B:It's kind of like you walk in the front door and there's this long room.
Speaker B:So the couch is up against this wall.
Speaker B:Front door's here, TV's here.
Speaker B:And over in this corner.
Speaker A:Corner.
Speaker B:He was sitting in the chair.
Speaker B:And so the doorway to get into the kitchen where my grandmother was.
Speaker B:Yeah, you have to pass him.
Speaker B:And I don't know, my grandma was out there on the phone or something like that.
Speaker B:And I was Watching tv.
Speaker B:And he kept trying to talk to me.
Speaker B:It was like the hair on the back of my neck went up.
Speaker B:Like, I was five, maybe five.
Speaker B:And I just knew, like, the way that he was interacting with me, something didn't sit right.
Speaker B:And he kept asking me to, like, come over and, like.
Speaker B:And he's old.
Speaker B:I mean, this guy's old, old.
Speaker B:He's, like in his 80s.
Speaker B:So he was just weirding me out, and I just wanted to watch my cartoon.
Speaker B:And he kept asking, like, come, come and sit on my lap.
Speaker B:Like, come, come over.
Speaker B:Like, come sit on my lap.
Speaker B:And I was like, no.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know you.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:I don't want to do that.
Speaker B:And so I was scared.
Speaker B:And eventually, after him, like, pestering me a while, I wanted to go find my grandmother.
Speaker B:And so I went to go through the doorway and try to find my grandmother.
Speaker B:Whether she was in the bathroom or the kitchen, I don't know.
Speaker B:But, like, I needed to get basically through this doorway to the other side of the house.
Speaker B:And as I tried to, like, I was, like, squeezing by on one side of the wall, and, like, he grabbed my hand, and luckily he was like an old man.
Speaker B:I, like, I. I yanked my hand out and I was just, like, I was so scared at that moment.
Speaker B:And I found my grandmother.
Speaker B:And I don't really recall what happened there, but I know that when I went home, I told my mom and she told my dad, and my dad scooped me up and our little red Suzuki Swift.
Speaker B:Okay, I'm picturing this picture this, okay?
Speaker B:Because I was home now, and he swooped me up, put me in the car, and he drove down there and he almost.
Speaker B:He almost buried that man.
Speaker B:Like, really, he didn't put his hands on him, but, like, he had me in his arm.
Speaker B:And I remember being over stressed, and he was like, military drill sergeant.
Speaker B:I mean, he was.
Speaker B:If you ever fuck and there's spit flying out of his mouth and you ever touch her, I swear to God, you're like, I will murder you.
Speaker B:I will put you six feet in the ground.
Speaker B:You better never be here again.
Speaker B:I remember never see your face, like.
Speaker B:And he just gave me that salvation in that moment.
Speaker B:Like, he showed up for me in a major way that I knew that I should never have to accept someone making me feel that way.
Speaker B:And so he, like, he really showed up for me.
Speaker A:What an important moment.
Speaker A:That just shows you.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:How crucial a father, a father that can take charge, lead his family and how it trickles through everybody in the house.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He knew how to show up in that moment and protect me.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker B:So, you know, for all the shortcomings, there was a foundational love and trust that I think we were able to build on later when.
Speaker B:Then he kind of, like, found himself a little bit.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:How.
Speaker A:When did he find himself and how did he.
Speaker B:So he's been, let's see, 10 or 12.
Speaker B:So I think that he knew for a while, like, this was becoming a problem.
Speaker B:But it went on for a really long time.
Speaker B:And I would say it was in my.
Speaker B:It was in my 20s that he had some, like, coming off of the opiates and then relapsing.
Speaker B:And luckily my dad is in.
Speaker B:He knows how to do hard shit kind of, man.
Speaker B:I mean, he really is a man's man.
Speaker B:I'm talking, like, hunting, building stuff.
Speaker B:Like, he just knows how to do hard things.
Speaker B:But emotionally checked out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And unequipped.
Speaker B:Like, zero idea how to do that.
Speaker B:So I think through.
Speaker B:Through having his kids and through my mom, you know, eventually we were able to, like, create.
Speaker B:But he had to be willing but create some safe spaces for conversation, you know?
Speaker B:And I remember there was still a lot of, like, uphill for a long time.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:Oh, a lot.
Speaker A:It's got a lot of years to catch up on that for sure.
Speaker B:A lot of years.
Speaker A:But it's a start.
Speaker A:I feel a lot of guys that I talk to, they.
Speaker A:It's too late.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's too late, man.
Speaker A:My kids are already teenagers.
Speaker A:My kids are grown.
Speaker A:And it's like, dude, start now.
Speaker A:Start the repair.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:You chalk it off as a loss for their.
Speaker A:Their young adult or young childhood lives that we screw up.
Speaker A:But, yeah, let's build this relationship now.
Speaker A:Maybe you'll have a relationship with your grandkids.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Maybe you'll be 80 years old and you'll.
Speaker A:You're fixing it then.
Speaker A:Like, I just.
Speaker A:It kills me to see and hear so many men that are.
Speaker A:I can relate to it.
Speaker A:That's my biggest thing.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:My wife's just like.
Speaker A:I don't know this.
Speaker A:There's this empathy and the care and the love.
Speaker A:It's just so hard for me at times and.
Speaker A:But it's just.
Speaker A:I feel so many other guys and that were the same way.
Speaker A:Never had the advice or ever had the help or the ability to break chains until it's too late and you feel it's too late.
Speaker A:And I'm just like, bro, start now.
Speaker A:Start.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You're never too late.
Speaker A:I don't care how old your children are grown.
Speaker A:Just start mending it as.
Speaker A:And the children should never have to fix the problem with the parents.
Speaker A:It's the parent.
Speaker A:If you.
Speaker A:Even if the child is wrong, as the parents parent, it's our role to do whatever it takes to have that relationship.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Now granted, if they're doing some crazy off the wall stuff, I'm not saying you got to bend the knee and just accept it, but if it's their rules, their, their way that they want their kids raised, whatever it may be, figure out that common ground and swallow your pride.
Speaker A:Make it work.
Speaker A:It's your children.
Speaker A:What's it worth?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it was maybe his late 30s that he started to figure out that out.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Because he was probably.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Maybe even in his 40s, to be honest.
Speaker B:The timeline there.
Speaker B:But he's in his early 60s now.
Speaker B:Looks great.
Speaker B:You know, he works out and takes care of himself and, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's, he's.
Speaker B:I'm really proud of him because this is such a difficult thing to come back from.
Speaker B:It's one of the hardest addictions to overcome.
Speaker A:Well, not only the addiction part, but.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:That generation part, which they.
Speaker A:None of them know how to heal from.
Speaker A:The boomer generation, none of them know how to process anything.
Speaker A:They just so many chains just linked to them.
Speaker A:And then you get us these gen millennials and whatever else we fall under, and it's just, it's so hard to be able to look and just be like, okay, we could just work on this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, but they'll never.
Speaker A:But the fact that he is and taking it and, you know, started in his 40s or whatever, but then he's in his sixt now in making those changes.
Speaker A:I mean, he's already, he's already ahead of the majority of that generation as far as just accepting change and wanting to have a relationship for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And so, you know, we had over the years, like a lot of deep conversations that led to tears on both parts, which was great.
Speaker B:You know, I think it was, it's.
Speaker B:It's good to kind of set down the armor for a little bit, you know, and I think my dad's gotten more comfortable with that and he's more of a healed person.
Speaker B:Person, you know, so that's great.
Speaker B:And I guess back to the wrestling, you know, I think at that time, though, I was trying to become what I didn't have in my life.
Speaker B:I was trying to become the strength.
Speaker B:What is this saying?
Speaker B:You Know that.
Speaker B:That weak men create hard times.
Speaker A:Hard men.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And so I think, because it was kind of like, not that.
Speaker B:Not that my dad was weak at all, but he was unavailable.
Speaker B:And so, like, because it was.
Speaker B:It was hard.
Speaker B:So then I tried to pull out what I would consider more of a masculine side of myself.
Speaker B:I tried to lean on that myself because I saw him not showing up for my mom in the ways that she needed.
Speaker B:You know, she was working two jobs, like.
Speaker B:Well, my dad was providing.
Speaker B:But again, it became a slippery slope once he became addicted because.
Speaker B:Very expensive addiction.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:So, you know, my mom was doing all this, and he was just not there.
Speaker B:And I was like, you know, I. I didn't have a conscious thought, but in hindsight, looking back, and I was like, I think I'm gonna save my mom.
Speaker A:As a child.
Speaker A:Like, that's.
Speaker A:That's your mindset.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm gonna become.
Speaker B:I'm gonna be strong.
Speaker B:I don't need.
Speaker B:I don't need that.
Speaker B:I don't need my dad.
Speaker B:I don't need.
Speaker B:You know, like, I will.
Speaker B:I will figure it out.
Speaker B:I will, you know, become what I don't have, essentially.
Speaker A:Do you think all of that was preparing you for the UFC in your.
Speaker A:In your.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That journey that you were at the time?
Speaker B:In a misattempted way, of course.
Speaker B:I think that I was.
Speaker B:A lot of energy spent that didn't need to be done.
Speaker B:I think I worked hard against the grain.
Speaker B:I think I had to have adversity and.
Speaker B:And have things not right in my life, because it was what was familiar, and that was like, what I use as the driver, which I don't think is necessary.
Speaker B:I think that will honestly peel away at you faster.
Speaker B:It's like burning the candle at both ends.
Speaker B:So it wasn't effect.
Speaker B:I mean, I became a world champion because of all of that, but I think I could have been a long reigning world champion if I didn't have to go through all that.
Speaker A:Let's unpack that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I. I was at my breaking point when I had my title fight, so I was already past.
Speaker B:I was already.
Speaker B:I was already broken.
Speaker A:Okay, let's jump into this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So wrestling, high school.
Speaker A:Random girl at college invites you to an MMA club.
Speaker B:Sport.
Speaker A:Club sport.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:You're automatically hooked.
Speaker A:So you do that for a couple of years, training with guys?
Speaker B:No, I did it for a couple weeks, and I had my first fight.
Speaker B:It was really fast.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I was like, no, not years.
Speaker B:Weeks.
Speaker A:Your first Fight?
Speaker B:Yeah, I had my first fight.
Speaker A:What type of, type of fight?
Speaker B:Like full on mma.
Speaker B:Like, what you would see in the.
Speaker A:UFC within only a couple of weeks of training.
Speaker A:How did this go?
Speaker B:I know, I know.
Speaker B:Okay, well, so I believe that destiny has a way of seeking you out.
Speaker B:Okay, so I'll just start with that.
Speaker B:None of this was my idea, and I was just the type of person who wasn't afraid to try out of the box things.
Speaker A:Clearly, clearly, clearly so gathered so far.
Speaker B:So I was like, all right, what's the worst that can happen?
Speaker B:And so I was training mixed martial arts and I learned.
Speaker B:I knew what an armbar was, I knew whatever naked choke was, I knew what a hitchhiker, like, arm bar escape was, and I knew what a triangle choke was.
Speaker B:And I would say that was it.
Speaker B:And I knew how to wrestle and I knew what punches were, but I was horrible.
Speaker B:I mean, feet in concrete.
Speaker B:I did not know.
Speaker B:Know how to truly move as a striker.
Speaker B:Okay, again, like three weeks of training.
Speaker B:So I, I went to my.
Speaker B:I got invited by the guys there at the college to attend my first amateur event.
Speaker B:Like, just watch.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I did not have any interest in fighting.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Zero.
Speaker B:Like, people were like, you know, do you want to learn the striking part of, like, what we offer here at the cub sport?
Speaker B:And I was like, no.
Speaker B:I was like, I do not.
Speaker B:I have no interest in punching anybody, and I absolutely have no interest in getting hit in the face.
Speaker B:That does not appeal to me.
Speaker B:And I went and watched the fights and it was the most amazing thing.
Speaker B:I saw the spirit of the warrior and that I could relate to.
Speaker B:I saw that it was an all male card, but these guys went out there and they just gave everything that they had.
Speaker B:I was like, I like that.
Speaker B:I like that.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And then destiny popped up on the front door of my porch essentially by.
Speaker B:They announ.
Speaker B:Made an announcement at the end of that fight card that they were going to have an all female fight card in three weeks.
Speaker B:So when I say, like, I. I had literally been going to the club sport, like two days a week for two weeks maybe.
Speaker A:So you only have like four training, four to six training sessions in before you get presented to actually go into a fight.
Speaker B:I might have been like 10 or 12, because once I accepted the fight, I was like, I think I need to know.
Speaker B:Know, like, how to, you know.
Speaker B:So I started going with, I should.
Speaker A:Probably learn how to fight.
Speaker B:Probably learn how to fight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, I have one coming up.
Speaker A:Might be a good idea.
Speaker A:Yeah, to learn how to throw a punch.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I literally signed up that night, not knowing what I was getting myself into.
Speaker B:I was 19 years old, never having had a fight in my life.
Speaker B:And I started traveling with the, The.
Speaker B:The group there at Central Washington University to Yakima.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:To train.
Speaker B:Train.
Speaker B:So Yakum mma.
Speaker A:So, I mean, now you're taking it serious?
Speaker B:Yeah, for a couple weeks.
Speaker B:I was basically a pro at the time.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:And I. I went out in my first fight and I fought a gal named Liz Posner, who was a kickboxer, and her and her husband owned a school up in, like, B.C.
Speaker B:Canada.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So they had come down to Wenatchee, Washington, and I had come over from Ellensburg, Washington, to wenatchee.
Speaker B:I got $50 for my first fight.
Speaker B:It was like food and gas, which I was stoked, actually, for sure.
Speaker B:So funny, like, how I was like, I didn't even think I was going to get any money, I was so broke.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, we're in a boxing ring because of course, you know, they didn't really do the cages back then.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's on a reservation always.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's on a reservation.
Speaker B:And, you know, people are, like, smoking in the crowd and yelling asinine comments towards the female fighters.
Speaker B:And it was that kind of atmosphere.
Speaker B:So I went out in the first round, and I remember I took her down so easy, you know, she stood with a really tall stance and, you know, everything high.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:Took her down and I was like, whoa.
Speaker B:Because I just in my life had never experienced and takedown that was as easy as that.
Speaker B:It's like slicing through warm butter.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So I took her down, but I think I just, like, wrestle her the whole time because I didn't know do anything else.
Speaker B:So I just, like, laid on her for, like, two minutes.
Speaker B:And then in the second round, she came out and she put me in a Muay Thai clinch.
Speaker B:And I didn't know what that was.
Speaker B:Okay, so I'm sure you know what it was, but in case the listeners don't know, basically it's like they grab on behind your head with their hands, and the forearms go on the collarbone, and they kind of hold your head.
Speaker B:And she begins kneeing my face.
Speaker A:Yeah, this is new.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, I had no idea what.
Speaker B:So I'm still trying to wrestle her.
Speaker B:So my arms are out like this, and I'm trying to grab her legs, and I'm watching these knees get come blazing, you know, up towards my face, past my face.
Speaker B:One lands on my forehead.
Speaker B:I'm trying to grab her legs, but I don't know how to get out of this because she's got this, like, pressure on my collarbone.
Speaker B:So it's like I can't exactly go through it.
Speaker B:But I am driving, trying to get down to her legs, and one comes straight up through the center and clean on smashes my nose.
Speaker B:I hear crunch and then warmth down my face.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:I'm still trying to take her down because I don't know what else to do.
Speaker B:And I think at that point, I'm driving so hard and we're up against the ropes that I kind of managed to, like, push through this hold she has.
Speaker B:And I'm kind of on her legs, but I've been driving down to try to get out of this hold so much that I'm, like, actually at her knees and, like, kind of sliding down past her ankle.
Speaker B:So she steps one foot out and she comes around onto my back and she gets her hooks in and she's trying to choke me.
Speaker B:So I'm like, turtle shelled up, you know, I've got my neck tucked into my shoulder fingers, and I'm on my elbows and I'm on my knees, and I'm like, trying to just take in what it is.
Speaker B:And I'm watching blood pour out of my nose, and I'm watching this pool of blood steadily grow in front of my face.
Speaker B:And it was like the most surreal moment while I'm defending this choke and everything, but in that moment, I was really in the eye of the storm.
Speaker B:It was like a very calm moment for me because I was really processing, like, one thought at a time.
Speaker B:And it was like, I'm bleeding a lot.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm bleeding a lot.
Speaker B:And I have to kick her ass now.
Speaker B:And that's really when I think the fighter was born, if I'm being honest with you.
Speaker B:Oh, that moment right there, because I had a moment to quit.
Speaker B:I easily could have been like, tap the mat and be like, done.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, no.
Speaker B:Like, this is it.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:This is it.
Speaker B:Like, I. I am gonna.
Speaker B:I'm getting her off of my back, back, and I'm going to punch her the living daylights out of her.
Speaker A:How'd the rest of the fight go?
Speaker B:Well, I did exactly that.
Speaker B:I peeled a hook, I hula hooped her off, like, got her down in front of me.
Speaker B:I mean, that's something I knew how to do from wrestling.
Speaker B:And so I was.
Speaker B:I was in my comfort zone there.
Speaker B:But I don't Think I had punched her like at all in the fight again because like I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker B:But in that moment I was like, no, like now I know like we're in a fight.
Speaker B:Like this is not a wrestling match.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And I had her down in the guard position so she was on her back.
Speaker B:And I stood up to my feet and I reached to the ceiling and I just started raining down punches.
Speaker B:And I remember there was blood all over her.
Speaker B:Like I was just.
Speaker A:You're pouring on her.
Speaker B:I was pouring blood all over.
Speaker B:So I remember like blood all over her cheek and I remember her like this and her arms and I'm just like, you know, gorilla hammering her away,.
Speaker A:Just hammer fist coming down.
Speaker B:And the round ended because there were two minutes rounds.
Speaker B:So all this has happened inside, which.
Speaker A:Is an eternity for even a trained athlete.
Speaker A:And here you are just months into this adventure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So the round ends, I go back to my corner and I was.
Speaker B:That I was staring back into like ghosts because my corner was like, they did not know what to do.
Speaker A:There's a bunch of college kids that invited you there.
Speaker A:Now they're.
Speaker A:Now they're in the middle of this bloody ass fight, a woman's fight.
Speaker B:Cuz we didn't do.
Speaker B:They didn't do that back then.
Speaker B:This is one thing to see this from a man, but they were really taken back at the fact that I had like this broken nose and blood all over me.
Speaker B:I look like this insane savage warrior woman.
Speaker B:But they were like, they were men and with the protective instinct.
Speaker B:So they didn't know.
Speaker A:They're conflicted.
Speaker B:They're very conflicted.
Speaker B:And someone throws a towel in on my behalf.
Speaker B:I didn't want that.
Speaker B:I was ready to go out there.
Speaker B:Yeah, I.
Speaker B:Because I knew in that moment I had, I believe I had broken her in that moment because I saw the look on her face and she was like, oh, like if I did that.
Speaker B:And she's like in the condition that she's in and she's still, she's coming back stronger and she's, you know, she's now like turns turn the tides of this fight.
Speaker B:I really like pushed a button and I knew, like she knew what was going to happen in round three for sure.
Speaker B:And so it was such a bummer.
Speaker B:But I was such a young, not confident girl.
Speaker B:Like I figured that these guys kind of knew I was more heartbroken.
Speaker B:I wasn't angry at them.
Speaker B:A lot of people think I was angry at them.
Speaker B:I was like, I wasn't angry at them.
Speaker B:I thought that they knew something that I didn't know, that I wasn't good enough.
Speaker B:That, like, I couldn't go back out there in that third round and, like, do what I knew I could do in my heart.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I was like, well, I didn't prepare.
Speaker B:Like, anything you want to do good in life, you got to prepare for.
Speaker B:I was like, so that's the only thing it's like I got.
Speaker B:So I have to start preparing.
Speaker B:I have to take another fight.
Speaker B:And I knew in that moment that I needed to.
Speaker A:Immediately.
Speaker A:Huh?
Speaker B:Immediately.
Speaker A:No kidding.
Speaker B:And my mom found me in the back.
Speaker B:She had drove over from Tacoma, Washington, which is where we grew up.
Speaker B:So she came to Wenatchee, and she found me bleeding over a trash.
Speaker B:Trash can in the back room.
Speaker B:Oh, my poor mom.
Speaker B:Well, I think I age my mom 10 years, you know, for sure.
Speaker B:It's like her baby for sure.
Speaker B:So she's like, come on, honey.
Speaker B:Like, we'll get you.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:Like, we're gonna.
Speaker B:I'm gonna take you home.
Speaker B:And so, you know, and this is a.
Speaker B:Like, I think it was December.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was December.
Speaker B:December.
Speaker B:And so there's snow all over the ground.
Speaker B:We have to go over the mountain path.
Speaker B:And I remember he got pulled over at one point, and all I had to do was like, show the officer like this.
Speaker B:And he was like, you're fine.
Speaker B:Keep going to the hospital.
Speaker B:You know, So I was like, slow down, Mom.
Speaker B:You know, but she was just trying to get us home.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:It's funny as my grand.
Speaker B:My grandpa, my Opie, my dad's dad.
Speaker B:Okay, okay.
Speaker B:Chauvinistic is fair to say sexist.
Speaker B:Old school, but old school and like, not a chivalrous way.
Speaker B:More like, you know, just like, women should do this, do this, and men, you know, don't.
Speaker B:Don't have to, you know, whatever.
Speaker B:He was visiting.
Speaker B:They were visiting.
Speaker B:And so I was.
Speaker B:I came home and I looked like a lion and a raccoon had a baby.
Speaker B:That's what my face looked like.
Speaker B:These giant black eyes.
Speaker B:And my nose was.
Speaker B:Had no.
Speaker B:None of these indentations.
Speaker B:It was just like square out to my cheeks, you know, So I was like.
Speaker B:Had a big, flat lion nose.
Speaker B:Nose.
Speaker B:And I remember having to see my grandparents.
Speaker B:And like, it was like.
Speaker B:It was like the worst combination of everything.
Speaker B:And I remember hearing the talks, like, you know, you shouldn't.
Speaker B:Like, you let.
Speaker B:You know, why are you letting her do that?
Speaker B:And they were like, scolding my parents and my dad and my mom's like, let her, like, she's 19 years old.
Speaker B:Like, what are we gonna, you know, what are we gonna say?
Speaker B:Well, she, hopefully she learned, you know, good.
Speaker B:Thank God she learned her lesson and it wasn't worse.
Speaker B:I just remember thinking to myself, because, like, I was upstairs and I just remember sitting, I was sitting at the top of stairs, like, listening to them talking about it, and I was just like, tail between my legs.
Speaker B:Was like, so embarrassed, but I knew I was going to do it again.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, you knew.
Speaker A:Nothing happened.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to, like, I'm going to prove them.
Speaker B:Like, I'm at least, I'm going to go out there and at least win one, Win a fight.
Speaker B:I'm, I, I need to know, like, that I can do this.
Speaker B:And I felt robbed in the opportunity to win that fight.
Speaker B:So I was like, there's no way that I'm leaving this sport.
Speaker B:So I, I think I only had the intention of doing it like, one more time.
Speaker B:It wasn't like, I was like, oh, there was no career for women.
Speaker B:And this wasn't even a thought.
Speaker B:This wasn't even a.
Speaker B:No, there was nothing.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's nothing.
Speaker A:I mean, we look, we want to look back at it now and you know, you look at all these high schools and there's full women's, these young girl teams and dude, there's a new female UFC fighter every week popping up and all.
Speaker A:And then they're at every gym and so it's, it's hard to think back.
Speaker A:Like, dude, when I said the beginning.
Speaker B: Of the show,: Speaker A:Literally the tip of the iceberg of this whole entire movement.
Speaker A:So, yeah, you're not thinking, oh, I'm going ufc, I'm gonna go WWE afterward, and all these.
Speaker B:Still didn't even really know, but like, again, I think I had seen the UFC in passing, but it didn't even register that it was like the same thing that I was doing.
Speaker B:It was that.
Speaker B:How unfamiliar.
Speaker B:I was not a fan.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was not a fight fan.
Speaker B:So for me, there was no opportunity for women.
Speaker B:There wasn't even hook and shoot and Bodog.
Speaker B:Like, for the old school fans, that didn't even exist yet.
Speaker B:Like, at that moment, it's like it might have just been.
Speaker B:Well, it might have just been coming on the scene right around that maybe like 06.
Speaker B:I don't think that it was there, like when I had that fight or if it was, it was brand spanking new with having any female fighters on it.
Speaker B:And there were a couple fighters that came, they were a little bit older than me that had been doing it maybe I like a.
Speaker B:A little bit longer than I had.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:At the.
Speaker B:That time.
Speaker B:But there was no Strike Force for women.
Speaker B:There was no ufc.
Speaker B:There was none of that.
Speaker B:Nothing.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So like female fighting was just.
Speaker B:Wasn't a thing.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So you go in.
Speaker A:You wanted to get one more fight to, to feel what it was like to win.
Speaker A:How did this go?
Speaker B:I won.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You got.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I won.
Speaker B:I was dominant.
Speaker B:I think I went out and I took the girl down and I tkoed her, so.
Speaker B:And then I was like, you got.
Speaker A:To take a taste of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, I gotta keep doing this.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker A:So where did the transition go from high school wrestling, screwing around at college and some MMA stuff to now you're like a prospect or getting even talked to or talk about the ufc.
Speaker A:When did that start to come into play?
Speaker B:It was a long time.
Speaker B: Well, it was actually: Speaker B:Basically I had six amateur fights and then I got called by hook and shoot.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Bodog to be in an all female tournament.
Speaker B:And I was like, that's cool.
Speaker B:Like, I, Yeah, I would love to be a part of that.
Speaker B:So my coaches were like, okay, great, we'll.
Speaker B:We'll do that.
Speaker B:So we flew out to Evansville, Indiana.
Speaker B:It was a one night tournament.
Speaker B:My first fight was against hometown Jan Finney, who at the time was the hardest hitting woman in mma.
Speaker B:She was getting a lot of promotion for.
Speaker B:For, you know.
Speaker B:Well, a lot compared to what we were used to getting as women.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So she's really being pushed as like the one to win this tournament.
Speaker B:She had the most experience and she was my first draw.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker B:So I had my first fight with her and we went three rounds and we're shooting the.
Speaker B:After the fight, like, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, fighters do like, you're waiting for the stuff to come in.
Speaker B:And at that time, anyways, we were in a boxing ring again still.
Speaker B:I still had yet to fight in a cage.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, man, your leg kicks.
Speaker B:Like, they're so.
Speaker B:They were hard.
Speaker B:They're so good.
Speaker B:She's like, you're wrestling.
Speaker B:She's like, you remind me of Janelle Marquez, I think is someone that she had maybe trained with or fought before.
Speaker B:And so we were just kind of there and we're kind of like, it's getting awkward.
Speaker B:You know, like we complimented each other.
Speaker B:Good job on the fight, you know, we don't know who won yet.
Speaker B:And it was getting awkwardly long.
Speaker B:Like, why there wasn't some.
Speaker B:Some announcement or, you know, know.
Speaker B:So we're.
Speaker B:We're like, what's going on?
Speaker B:And they're like.
Speaker B:The ref was like, they're having trouble deciding who won.
Speaker B:Like, they won't agree.
Speaker B:The judges will not agree.
Speaker B:So he said, what we've determined is.
Speaker B:Would be best is if you ladies go another round.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So as a fighter, you go full to three rounds.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Fight ends.
Speaker A:So you're.
Speaker A:Now you're.
Speaker A:You're on the decline of.
Speaker A:Peaking of this adrenaline, survival mode.
Speaker B:Mode exhausted.
Speaker A:Ex exhausted.
Speaker A:You've now.
Speaker A:I don't want to say cooled down, but you've had enough time to, you know, get the.
Speaker A:The bugs had all been worked out, and then now you're told you have to fight another round again.
Speaker A:How's that in the fighting world?
Speaker B:Well, you got to be ready for anything, right?
Speaker B:Clearly, I didn't expect that one, though.
Speaker B:That was a curveball.
Speaker B:Yeah, but we fought another round.
Speaker A:You fought your ass off then.
Speaker B:Yeah, I did.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I remember my corner at the time, like, if you can give me one, I mean, because we're tired, weird.
Speaker B:Like, wait.
Speaker B:And I had a horrible weight cut because I did not know how to cut weight, and I had been struggling with an eating disorder at the time, so I was just puffy and low of energy.
Speaker B:I was not doing things right by any means.
Speaker B:So I cut a lot of weight, and I was in the sauna a lot, and I barely made the weight, and I. I suffered.
Speaker B:I really struggled on that weight cut.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:So after three rounds, you know, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm pretty tired.
Speaker B:But luckily, I'm young.
Speaker B:You know, I'm maybe 20 at that point.
Speaker B:20, 21.
Speaker B:And so I go back, and she goes back to her corner, and ding, we.
Speaker B:We fight another round.
Speaker B:And at the end of that, we're like, okay, wow, good work.
Speaker B:You know, kind of complimenting each other again, kind of waiting, twiddling our thumbs,.
Speaker A:And we're like, it happened again.
Speaker B:The referee is over there, and, you know, there's all this conversation, and we're like, you know, scratching our heads like, oh, gosh, okay.
Speaker B:So the referee comes over and says, okay, the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The judges will not agree on who has won this fight.
Speaker B:So you have two options.
Speaker B:Either you can fight one more round, or you can allow me to make the decision.
Speaker A:Why you?
Speaker B:Well, not me.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:As the referee.
Speaker B:I'm speaking as a referee.
Speaker B:Oh, he's just so the referee.
Speaker B:Yeah, the referee was like, you can.
Speaker B:He was taking.
Speaker B:Telling us, you can either both choose to fight one more round or the.
Speaker B:The judges, since they won't agree and they are in like major, you know, debate again, we're on like a reservation.
Speaker B:This is not like.
Speaker B:This is not like there must have been four judges or.
Speaker B:Or one judge that saw it one way and they would not.
Speaker B:They were all friends or something.
Speaker B:I was like, this is like they would not agree.
Speaker A:Do you think they were just trying to get her because she was the hometown favorite and then you were actually holding your own and you were supposed to just be walked away.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, maybe one of them was.
Speaker B:Was like, you guys, this is like this girl wasn't supposed to win, but she is.
Speaker B:And like, you can't give it to.
Speaker B:Maybe there was one person or, I don't know, two people advocating or maybe there was an even number of judges.
Speaker B:I honestly don't recall.
Speaker B:But what I know is that we fought a fourth round and it's nowhere on the records.
Speaker B:Like, if you look, it says we only fought three rounds.
Speaker B:And that footage of the fourth round doesn't exist.
Speaker B:Yeah, it doesn't show.
Speaker B:So it's like it never happened.
Speaker B:But it did.
Speaker B:And I think it made them look bad because it was a turn tournament.
Speaker B:Like we.
Speaker B:One of us had to fight again.
Speaker B:So for them to just like make us fight another round.
Speaker B:Yeah, we have to fight.
Speaker A:This is your first actual fight in the tournament.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:And my pro debut.
Speaker A:Oh, God, what a horrible experience.
Speaker B:So, okay, so we're waiting and her and I look at each other and we're both just smoked.
Speaker B:Like, we are exhausted and we're like, one of us is gonna have to fight again.
Speaker B:So I guess we let the referee free, raise whoever's hand, you know, best seat in the house, right?
Speaker B:So he raises my hand.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I just, you know, fell to my knees and I was just like, oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:I took out the, the, the, you know, the, the one.
Speaker B:Like I took out the number one seed.
Speaker B:Like, I should.
Speaker B:I should have this, right?
Speaker B:I should have this.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:Then I fought Caitlyn Young, who was a phenomenal kickboxer.
Speaker B:And in her.
Speaker B:And this is nothing against her, but in her first fight, she fought a girl.
Speaker B:Girl that had never fought before, and she knocked her out inside of like a minute.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So she was fresh and.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:So you know where this is going.
Speaker A:Okay, so you have now fought in four rounds.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Against the veteran.
Speaker A:Against the number one contender, and you end up winning that.
Speaker A:And then your next opponent knocked out her.
Speaker A:Her opponent in the first round.
Speaker A:So she's fresh.
Speaker A:She had.
Speaker A:Damn, that sucks.
Speaker B:And I think I had, like, maybe 30, 30 minutes before I was fighting again.
Speaker B:So I thought I said my leg when they called me.
Speaker A:Your legs?
Speaker B:Yeah, I was like, icing.
Speaker B:I shouldn't have been icing my leg.
Speaker B:I didn't know.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:Because I.
Speaker B:Because I was fighting again.
Speaker B:I think I probably shouldn't have been icing.
Speaker B:So I'm like, all of a sudden, like, okay, like, you're up.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:So I, like, threw the ice to the side, and I was like, trying to jump around and get my legs all back warm and stuff, you know?
Speaker B:But honestly, I think I just had too much of the, like, too much of a dump in the first 100% fight.
Speaker B:And so I go out there and I try to take her down.
Speaker B:And I was so funny.
Speaker B:Like, you have to watch the fight because, I mean, I was, like, moving around like this.
Speaker B:Like, I literally did.
Speaker B:Still didn't know how to strike.
Speaker B:Like, this is like a year.
Speaker B:And I was still, like, just trying to, like, be a wrestler.
Speaker B:And I thought, you have to have your hands glued to your cheeks.
Speaker B:And, like, I have so.
Speaker B:So stiff.
Speaker B:And I get in on her legs, and I go to, like, pick her up.
Speaker B:And because we're in a rope, she loops her arm over the rope.
Speaker B:So I lift both legs, but I'm like, why is she not going down?
Speaker B:And that was basically it.
Speaker B:That's what I.
Speaker B:For that fight.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then she defends the takedown from there, and then I'm just a sitting duck.
Speaker B:And she, like, knocked me out with clean.
Speaker B:With a head kick.
Speaker A:Was this your first time getting knocked out?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, do you remember just.
Speaker B:Literally.
Speaker B:You should watch it because it's like, you have this footage.
Speaker B:It's out there.
Speaker B:Caitlin Young versus Misha Tay.
Speaker B:I always want to get that one back, but I never did.
Speaker B:Um, because I was like, damn.
Speaker B:I know on a fresh night, you know, this could be different.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Um, but no, she knocked me clean out.
Speaker B:Highlight reel, like, arm ragdolled in the ropes.
Speaker B:Like, I was out, so I don't remember coming to.
Speaker B:But what I remember was, so I was with my ex, the one that I had, like, long term toxic relationship with.
Speaker B:So he was out there and he was cornering me, and he was telling me about the first fight, and it was like a story I'd never heard before.
Speaker B:I didn't Remember that first fight with Jan Finney?
Speaker B:He's like, do you remember, like she came out in like a native American outfit and like, you know, like had a. I don't know.
Speaker B:But she, she came out and, and I was like, what?
Speaker B:I was like, so, like I won the first fight and I just lost like this one.
Speaker B:And I was like trying to connect the dots, but it took me honestly a few days before I feel like really came back to me.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, it, it, it knocked me out of this realm for a little bit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I didn't win that tournament.
Speaker B:So I was one on one.
Speaker B:I was undefeated for like all of like 30 minutes in my pro debut.
Speaker A:I mean, it worked out for you at least.
Speaker A:Out.
Speaker B:It worked out.
Speaker B:It worked out.
Speaker B:It was good.
Speaker B:It was good contrast.
Speaker B:You know, I got to experience, you know, the good, the high and the low all in the same night for sure.
Speaker A:Then from there, I mean, it was just off to the races of just tournaments and learning and bettering your skills or what.
Speaker B:So my next fight was in Strike Force.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker A:How big was Strike Force then?
Speaker A:Was it pretty new?
Speaker B:They were.
Speaker B: but they had just started in: Speaker B: So this was: Speaker B:Let's see.
Speaker B:5, 6, 7.
Speaker B: metime like maybe November of: Speaker B:And then, then they started having female fights right around the same time too.
Speaker B:They only had a few.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Elena Maxwell and Gina Carano fought.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And Gina won.
Speaker B:And Elena Maxwell is a two time K1 kickboxing world champion training under Kung Lee from San Jose, which is where.
Speaker B:Yeah, she was Elena Beef Maxwell.
Speaker B:You know, she was like at that time, you know, she's like her lower, like her hips and legs were just like beefy.
Speaker B:And so Strike Force is based out of San Jose, so you get to get a picture.
Speaker B:They, they find me.
Speaker B:I just been knocked out by Caitlyn Young.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So they, they find me somehow through.
Speaker B:I was training under Dennis Hallman at the time, which I don't know if you know, but he, he fought in the UFC for a little bit.
Speaker B:And so I was training there and they somehow I get the opportunity.
Speaker B:I don't remember how this happened, but to fight, fight her next.
Speaker B:So right after getting knocked out from Caitlyn, I get the biggest opportunity of my life to fight on HD net.
Speaker B:I think it was on HD.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was on HD net.
Speaker A:This is huge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:2008 For Strike Force and it's a one off contract.
Speaker B:So they're not even fighting.
Speaker B:They're not signing me to, like, be a fighter of theirs.
Speaker B:Like, I am coming in to lose to Elena Maxwell in her hometown, and I'm fighting up a weight class.
Speaker B:I'm fighting 1:45.
Speaker A:God, you just.
Speaker A:They're throwing you in the lion's den.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker B:And I was terrified.
Speaker A:Rightfully.
Speaker A:Rightfully so.
Speaker B:I was terrified because I had just gotten knocked out.
Speaker B:And I'm like, on paper, Elena is a better kickboxer.
Speaker B:She's more accomplished than Caitlyn on paper, but.
Speaker B:And I'm fighting her up class, and my coaches think that this is a good idea.
Speaker B:So I'm like, okay.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I trained so hard.
Speaker B:Hard.
Speaker B:Like, I trained like a mad woman because I was so scared that if I did, if I left one stone unturned, like, she was gonna head kick me and knock me out too.
Speaker B:And I didn't.
Speaker B:I desperately did not want that to happen again.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:So I worked so hard, and I went down there and I. I was like a fly on, Like, I was, like, glued to her.
Speaker B:Like the.
Speaker B:As soon as the bell, like, we touch gloves, and I would just, like, run and, like, stick myself to her because I wanted no space.
Speaker B:And I took her down, I think, in the first, like, 15 seconds of almost every single round.
Speaker B:So I got her down and then the whole time was on the ground, like, we were never standing up, which.
Speaker A:You're safe.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like, as I was connected to her distance.
Speaker A:So she can catch a.
Speaker A:You can catch a round.
Speaker B:I beelined for her wherever she was.
Speaker B:I was a heat seeking missile.
Speaker B:I was like, I have to be connected to her at all times.
Speaker B:I cannot have zero space.
Speaker B:Zero space.
Speaker B:So I took her down a night.
Speaker B:I almost got her in an arm bar.
Speaker B:I think in the second round, it was, like, fully extended, and it kind of looked like she tapped if you look at the video.
Speaker B:But either way, like, the bell rang like, a second or two later.
Speaker B:We went all three rounds, and I won the decision.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:How did that feel so good?
Speaker B:Like, it was redemption.
Speaker A:Is there?
Speaker A:I asked this question because I got the watch points in my daughter's fighting careers where you have the doubt and you're like, oh, they're so much better.
Speaker A:And then those wins level you up.
Speaker A:Was that one of those, like, oh, I actually, yeah, I am, because I. I watched that happen with my daughters where there like, hey, you.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're cleaning house at all these tournaments.
Speaker A:Like, you need when you going to start believing in yourself?
Speaker A:And there.
Speaker A:There comes that point where it just clicks, where it's like, okay, I am this woman.
Speaker A:I am this fighter.
Speaker A:Was that this moment or did it take more?
Speaker B:It took more.
Speaker A:It took more.
Speaker B:It took more.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was relieved.
Speaker B:Relieved.
Speaker B:That's what I was in that moment.
Speaker B:I was scared, and then I was relieved.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, thank God.
Speaker B:I still didn't even know if I was that good, but I was like, thank God I survived.
Speaker B:Like, I just thought I survived.
Speaker B:I was like, I didn't get knocked out.
Speaker B:That was a win.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And then it's just hilarious hearing it from this point of view, because you just look, you're like, this is the baddest freaking chick that walk in the ring.
Speaker A:And then it's like, you're over here, like, oh, my God, I survived.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Honestly, I was like.
Speaker B:So I was just happy.
Speaker B:I survived because I thought I. I might have the same fate happen again.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And honestly, wasn't so scared of the knockout.
Speaker B:Physically.
Speaker B:It wasn't a physical thing.
Speaker B:It was more just working and wanting something so bad and then just being, like, just the.
Speaker B:In the worst possible way, publicly humiliated.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Okay, so real quick, what.
Speaker A:What is the worst way to lose a fight?
Speaker A:Tapping or getting knocked out?
Speaker B:I think getting knocked out.
Speaker B:Knocked out.
Speaker B:Those always make the highlight reels.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So much more than a submission, you know?
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's more of a pride.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:One of those where I'm like, I'm not gonna tap, you know?
Speaker A:One of those.
Speaker B:True.
Speaker B:Well, anything for people who do the sport.
Speaker B:When you tap.
Speaker B:You meant you.
Speaker B:You give up.
Speaker B:Like, you have.
Speaker B:You make a choice to give up.
Speaker B:When you get knocked out, you don't make a choice to give up.
Speaker B:But I think the way that the fans perceive it in the audience and, like, the shock value of getting knocked out is way.
Speaker B:It's gonna have those reverberations for 10 times longer than ever getting submitted.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's terrifying ending up on a highlight reel when you're on the receiving end.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's motivation.
Speaker B:I want to lose.
Speaker B:I was like, please, dear God, tell me that I did enough to, you know, beat this beefy woman in her hometown up a weight class.
Speaker B:And I did.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And that still wasn't enough to realize that you might have actually be on to something here and have a skill at this.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:I lacked the foresight to be honest or Even the, the process, I was just doing something that I loved.
Speaker B:I didn't think that there was a future in this.
Speaker B:I still didn't even think that there was.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:I keep forgetting that you weren't chasing the ufc.
Speaker B:No, I wasn't at all.
Speaker B:So, like, it took a little time.
Speaker B:I will say after that fight, not.
Speaker B:Not like right in winning it.
Speaker B:But a few weeks later, I got a call from Strike Horse and they were wanted to sign me.
Speaker B:So they signed me to a multi fight deal.
Speaker B:And that was kind of the moment I remember being like, wait, what?
Speaker B:Like, I think I was going to make $1,500 to show and 1,500 to win.
Speaker B:That's what I was going to make because I think I made 1,000 and 1,000 to fight Elena.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Before that, the tournament was 500 bucks.
Speaker B:You got 500 bucks if you won, and I think maybe nothing if you lost.
Speaker A:So now that you're like, oh, okay, I'm enjoying this.
Speaker A:Now we get to make a. I.
Speaker B:Was like, this me.
Speaker B:Like, this is kind of official.
Speaker B:Like, this is like getting hired for a job.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker B:This is like I'm contracted.
Speaker A:What, and you're ready to now?
Speaker A:I mean, yeah.
Speaker A:Are you processing?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Strike Force is wanting me to jump on in this multi fight contract.
Speaker A:Like, is this something that I want to pursue or was.
Speaker A:Did you give it much thought or was this something that you were 100%?
Speaker B:It was a no brainer for me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was in.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I was like, this is great.
Speaker B:You mean that I can like do this and actually make a little bit?
Speaker B:Because that was good money for me back then.
Speaker B: Yeah, you know,: Speaker B:I was like, so if I win, I get $3,000?
Speaker B:I was like, yes, sign me up.
Speaker B:So I was there for it.
Speaker B:And I fought Zoila Frosto from Fresno, another hometown girl striker, and I beat her, submitted her in an armbar, and then I fought.
Speaker B:I was supposed to fight Kim Couture, who was Randy Couture's wife at the time.
Speaker A:And that dude is terrifying by himself.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I. I'm like, honestly, like, undercover.
Speaker B:One of his biggest fans.
Speaker B:I like, I love Randy Couture.
Speaker B:And he was the first person in the sport that I modeled myself after or like looked up to.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I remember after having my first fight, never really watching the ufc, I kind of got into the culture and so they, they invited me over and I watched Randy Couture fight and I was like, that guy.
Speaker B:I Was like, that.
Speaker B:That's my inspiration.
Speaker B:That's who I want to be.
Speaker B:I want to be.
Speaker B:Be him because he was so humble and he was so amazing and so.
Speaker B:And he was a wrestler.
Speaker B:I was like, wow.
Speaker B:I was like, that's.
Speaker B:That's my.
Speaker B:That's my person.
Speaker B:Like, that's who I want to be.
Speaker B:And then I ended up training at Extreme Couture.
Speaker B:That's where I've been for most of my career now.
Speaker B:So Randy's just, like, one of the nicest people.
Speaker B:So humble and such a badass still to this day.
Speaker B:Like, he pops in there and, like, he'll.
Speaker B:I'm like, get so excited when he comes in because he's always got such great stuff that he shows such.
Speaker B:Such great upper body lock stuff.
Speaker B:So I fought.
Speaker B:So supposed to fight his wife, which they end up were going through divorce at the time, and so she ended up pulling.
Speaker B:And then I fought Sarah Kaufman, who was a savage.
Speaker B:She had way better takedown defense, and I only got her down in the second round, and otherwise she kind of battered me up, and I lost.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:I don't know, from there, I just kept fighting.
Speaker B:I was the longest signed female to Strike Force prior to going to the US ufc.
Speaker A:So, yeah, what an accomplishment.
Speaker B:It was pretty cool, huh?
Speaker A:So you're working your way through the ranks.
Speaker A:You're slowly building a name with Strike Force.
Speaker A:What was the moment when the UFC reached out?
Speaker B:It was after I lost to Rhonda, so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Can we talk about Rhonda real quick?
Speaker B:Sure, yeah.
Speaker A:We all hated each other.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You still hate each other?
Speaker B:No, I've let go of hate.
Speaker B:I don't think that's a.
Speaker B:That's a word, you know?
Speaker B:But I'm not, like, her biggest fan or anything, by any means.
Speaker B:You know, I just.
Speaker B:I still.
Speaker B:I still, like, carry the opinions that I have, which is that I'm grateful, honestly, very grateful to have a rival like her in my career.
Speaker A:I mean, if you're going to have.
Speaker B:A rival, let it be.
Speaker B:Yeah, she was perfect.
Speaker B:Yeah, she was perfect.
Speaker A:What a perfect match for two women.
Speaker A:Women from two different styles, then to have this rivalry for the sport, which drew so much attention to you two just at each other's throats over everything this.
Speaker B:It was perfect.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker B:I honestly couldn't.
Speaker B:I would not go back and change it if I had the chance to do that, because I learned so much through that rivalry.
Speaker A:Where did it start?
Speaker A:What was the moment where you were like, man, this.
Speaker B:Well, I think she was just so sad.
Speaker B:Sassy.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So I remember that when we were starting out, the.
Speaker B:When I say we, you know, I mean, the.
Speaker B:Like, the few women that were doing this, there was an underlying camaraderie.
Speaker A:Yeah, you guys are all.
Speaker A:You're the first.
Speaker A:You guys are all the pioneers.
Speaker A:You think there would be this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So there was to be the best out of the pioneers.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So there was this original group of pioneers that I had kind of become familiar with.
Speaker B:And granted, we were fighting each other.
Speaker B:Other, you know, momentarily in the fights, but otherwise, everyone was really cool.
Speaker B:Like, all the women were really great, and we kind of understood that we were fighting this together.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Collectively.
Speaker B:Like, we were trying to get somewhere collectively.
Speaker B:But Rhonda really came in with the.
Speaker B:The opposite mentality.
Speaker B:She's like, I don't give a fuck about any of these bitches.
Speaker B:Like, I'm just gonna, you know, do me, and, like, I don't care.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:And so I think she rubbed, you know, originally, like, a lot of women kind of the wrong way, but she knew what she was doing, and she had the confidence to do it, and she wasn't.
Speaker B:Now I realize, like, she was.
Speaker B:It was really smart, her approach, because she had the skill to back it up.
Speaker B:But if you were one of the women who, like, started this board, and you.
Speaker B:You had been doing this for a while, and, like, you always were used to, like, the women being sports, having sportsmanship.
Speaker B:You were kind of like, who.
Speaker B:Like, who do you think she is?
Speaker B:Like, so.
Speaker B:So disrespectful.
Speaker B:Disrespectful.
Speaker B:But then we ended up fighting each other.
Speaker B:I was the champion at the time.
Speaker B:I fought Marlon, another veteran, somebody that I idolized.
Speaker B:And there's one time in my career when I.
Speaker B:Only one time that I ever thought, I hope I don't have to fight that person.
Speaker B:It was like, a momentary thought, but, you know, like an intrusive thought.
Speaker B:You just get it, and you're just like, I shouldn't have had that thought.
Speaker B:Like, that wasn't right.
Speaker B:But it.
Speaker B:It was a real thought, and it was against Marlo's Koonin.
Speaker B:I watched her fight Cyborg, and as impressed with Cyborg as I was, for whatever reason, I was more impressed with Marloose.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Because Cyborg is terrifying.
Speaker B:She is terrifying.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I think I knew that.
Speaker B:And she was running through women.
Speaker B:I mean, like, running through it was.
Speaker B:And they were all, like, getting scared.
Speaker B:But Marlos was not scared.
Speaker B:She went out there, and she cracked cyber.
Speaker B:I mean, it.
Speaker B:I think it would have put Any other woman down, but of course it was Cyborg.
Speaker B:So I just remember seeing how hard she fought against Cyborg with like, no doubt, no doubt of confidence in herself when all the other women seem to have.
Speaker B:They just get demolished or they just didn't have the confidence or they'd wither.
Speaker B:And like, that wasn't Marlowe's, you know.
Speaker A:What you saying that I wonder if you, you, because you, you're in the sport long enough, you can tell immediately when somebody's in or out of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you're watching these women step into the ring with Cyborg and there's almost, I'm sure you could pick up on this fear and terror in their eyes, which you, dude, if I'm a grown ass man and I cross her in a freaking alleyway, I'm turning around, right?
Speaker A:Like, let's just.
Speaker A:Yeah, call Spade of spade.
Speaker A:That one's terrifying.
Speaker A:But the fact that you saw her opponent, just the look in her eye of I'm.
Speaker A:You're gonna kill me or I'm killing you when we come out of here, that's more terrifying than who's they're fighting.
Speaker A:When almost the kamikaze mentality, where that woman is looking at this Cyborg with zero fear in her.
Speaker A:How's she gonna look at me?
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker B:That was what it was.
Speaker B:Cuz, like, we knew Cyborg had every right to have that confidence.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Marlo didn't, but she did.
Speaker B:And I loved it.
Speaker B:But I, it was like, so, so, so I was so in awe of her, and I was so inspired by her tenacity.
Speaker B:And like, that kind of like, where did that come from?
Speaker B:Like, where do you, like, that's not.
Speaker B:Who are you?
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker A:Like, is that trained into you?
Speaker B:You're a savage.
Speaker B:Like, you're a warrior.
Speaker B:Like, you have all my respect.
Speaker B:And so I, I, I kind of idolized her in a way.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:And so in that moment, early, early on in my career, I think I'd only had like maybe, maybe two fights in Strike Force, maybe.
Speaker B:And I saw her fight Cyborg and I was like, wow.
Speaker B:I was like, she, I was like, I hope I never have to fight that woman.
Speaker B:And I was like, that was an intrusive thought.
Speaker B:And then I, a couple years later, I was fighting her for the title and my whole perspective had totally changed.
Speaker B:I was ready.
Speaker B:Then I knew I was like, okay, like, when you, when your idols become your rivals, it's the greatest accomplishment.
Speaker B:It's the greatest accomplishment, and you're doing it right And I was so excited to be there with her, fighting her, because I was like, this is.
Speaker B:This is a dream.
Speaker B:Like, this is what I wanted.
Speaker B:I wanted to.
Speaker B:Truthfully, I wanted to be on her level.
Speaker B:And at the time when I saw her fight Cyborg, I was.
Speaker B:Wasn't yet.
Speaker B:But I worked my ass off.
Speaker B:And I was inspired by her, and I was inspired by Gina, and I was inspired by all these women around me and men.
Speaker B:You know, like, there wasn't that many female role models for me, especially really early, like, prior to Strike Force.
Speaker B:So it was Randy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it was.
Speaker B:Men were my role models.
Speaker B:And then these women came along, and I was like, wow, they're so inspiring.
Speaker B:That's like how I want to be.
Speaker B:And then I end up fighting her and ended up beating her in the fourth round ground with a.
Speaker B:A Von Flu choke.
Speaker B:A what?
Speaker B:No, it was a Von Flu choke.
Speaker B:I lied.
Speaker B:It was a head and arm choke.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But Von Flu choke is kind of similar in the sense that you put the pressure on the shoulder, like the shoulder and the neck, but it's like, you know, when someone gets you, what's the other thing that they call it?
Speaker B:A phantom choke.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, okay.
Speaker B:Phantom choke.
Speaker B:But that wasn't true.
Speaker B:I did not beat her with that.
Speaker B:I beat her with the head and arm choke.
Speaker A:Before we took a break.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We were talking about.
Speaker A:About how your idols become your rivals.
Speaker A:I mean, what an.
Speaker A:What an accomplishment.
Speaker A:What a feeling that you're looking up to these women that you're coming up through the ranks with as far as being this professional, on your path to becoming this professional fighter.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm talking on the UFC level.
Speaker A:How does that feel, catching your rivals?
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, how does it feel catching your idols?
Speaker B:I felt right.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:It felt right.
Speaker B:It felt like I belonged there.
Speaker B:Yeah, it felt like I belonged there, and I knew that.
Speaker B:I just knew I was going to win that fight.
Speaker B:You know, in all fairness, there are fights that I knew I was going to win that I didn't win.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Okay, I was just going to ask you, you ever stepped into a fight knowing there's no way did you ever.
Speaker A:Was there.
Speaker A:Okay, so let me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Has there ever been a fight that you stepped in their ring and you were just praying to God that just their servant surviving?
Speaker B:Yeah, there was.
Speaker B:Well, yes, there was a fight when I fought Raquel Pennington, and it wasn't because it was like a physical beatdown or anything.
Speaker B:It was because I couldn't show up.
Speaker B:I Couldn't get present.
Speaker B:I couldn't.
Speaker B:I wasn't there.
Speaker B:I was so lost and broken and fighting for all the wrong reasons and I had truly lost myself along the way and I, I was not there for that fight.
Speaker B:And so I was just kind of like praying for it to almost to be over.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:Cuz I couldn't get there.
Speaker B:I couldn't get there.
Speaker B:I said can this just be like, can this just be over?
Speaker B:Like I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker B:That was actually when I retired, but.
Speaker A:Oh, so it was one of your last fights.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Before coming back.
Speaker B:Yeah, because I had retired for like four, four and a half years.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Had kids and then came back.
Speaker B:But I think we're going to talk about Rhonda a little bit, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that, that whole, the whole thing.
Speaker B:So I think we were talking about like how she burst on the scene and, and then like, and then fighting her.
Speaker B:So when you asked, you know, was there ever a fight that you like?
Speaker B:Well, I mean, almost all the fights, like, you know you're going to win.
Speaker B:Sometimes you don't win, but you have to know your going to win.
Speaker B:But honestly, when I fought Rhonda the first time I fought Rhonda, I knew it was going to be really difficult to win.
Speaker B:I wasn't under any illusion.
Speaker B:Like I knew that she was very, very good, but I believed that I would win.
Speaker B:I would say the second time that I fought Rhonda, it was a little bit more of like I hoped I was going to win because I knew that I didn't have the right training for her.
Speaker B:Like deep down she was different.
Speaker A:The way she fought, the way she moved.
Speaker B:I didn't have partners, I didn't have partners that could mimic Rhonda.
Speaker B:And so because of that, it wasn't that I didn't train my ass off or train hard, but I knew that there were things that she had that I hadn't seen, I wasn't able to prepare for.
Speaker A:Which is, did that, does that plant doubt the little mustard seed and does it start to grow over time?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But yes, because you know that there may be something that you're not totally prepared for.
Speaker B:And I hadn't totally figured out her arm bar or like how to totally defend it.
Speaker B:So there wasn't like a way that I was like, you know, defending every time in practice it was like so good.
Speaker B:Like my arm bar defense wasn't like top 100%, you know, like top 1%.
Speaker B:And so because of that I was like, well, I Just better not get there, you know, but that's easier said than done, you know, and so it was hard not to.
Speaker B:To.
Speaker B:To get thrown or to, you know, it just.
Speaker B:The style matchup wasn't favorable for me.
Speaker B:And she was so elite, and at the time, there's nobody to mimic her.
Speaker B:Yeah, no one.
Speaker B:There were zero women that were on her level that were fighting as well.
Speaker B:And the guys that would come over weren't smooth like her.
Speaker B:They were more like muscle.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, they'd muscle you over and you're like, well, it didn't feel like that when I fought Rhonda the first time.
Speaker B:You know, it was.
Speaker B:There was no muscling.
Speaker B:Like, she was timing and calculation and smooth.
Speaker B:Nothing was forced.
Speaker B:She was able to feel where your weight was off and use it against you and just very high level.
Speaker B:So I think the second time that I fought her, it was more of like, I have to believe that I can do this.
Speaker B:You know, I have to believe that I can.
Speaker B:I can.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I. I believed that there was a way.
Speaker B:I just didn't know how.
Speaker B:I didn't know how I was going to get there.
Speaker B:Yeah, I wanted to, and I believed that I could find a way, but it was not a clear.
Speaker B:There was no clear path.
Speaker B:It was just like, I'm gonna have to try to make this fight as ugly as possible and hope to God I don't get caught in an arbor.
Speaker B:Like, I've tried my best to prepare, but I'm not 100 confident that I've seen everything that Rhonda brings because I don't have the people showing giving me the looks.
Speaker A:That sucks.
Speaker A:Yeah, that sucks.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you guys go back and forth in the.
Speaker A:I don't want to say Pride.
Speaker B:Ufc.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Before prior Strike Force.
Speaker A:So that's where you guys get introduced to each other.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:When does the UFC come into play?
Speaker A:Because this is.
Speaker A:Obviously, now the UFC is looking at growing the female side of things.
Speaker A:You guys are making a name and Strike Force and all these little one off knockoff tournament and things like that.
Speaker A:So the traction's now coming with females into mma.
Speaker A:You guys are having a little name for yourselves at this point.
Speaker A:And then now the UFC reaches out.
Speaker A:How does this work?
Speaker B:Yeah, basically Dana and Lorenzo were watching that fight, and I think we.
Speaker B:We have a hunch that they might be watching, because the UFC had already announced that they were acquiring Strike Force, so we did know that that was coming at the time of that fight.
Speaker A:Oh, that's right.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:This was that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So we knew Strike Force was going to be no more, and we knew that women did not exist in the ufc.
Speaker B:The UFC was buying Strike Force.
Speaker B:So we're like, what does that mean?
Speaker B:Okay, Well, I was like, well, it might mean that this is make or break.
Speaker B:Like, this fight.
Speaker B:This fight may change the mind of Dana White, who assumes that women are mismatched.
Speaker B:Like, that's what he said, that he didn't like women's MMA because the first and only fight that he'd really seen at that time was a horrible mismatch, and he assumed the talent pool wasn't deep enough.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:To have competitive, like, divisions of women.
Speaker B:So he's like, I don't want.
Speaker B:I don't want mismatches.
Speaker B:I don't want that.
Speaker B:There's just not enough women fighting.
Speaker B:So I thought, well, I think I could change his mind.
Speaker B:I remember having that thought consciously.
Speaker B:And that stemmed from wrestling.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You talk about, like, knowing you can do hard things.
Speaker B:That was one of those moments where I changed the perspective of all the males around me.
Speaker B:Not because they were bad guys and thought, you know, women are weak and whatnot.
Speaker B:It's just they honestly thought.
Speaker B:Thought that women didn't do that.
Speaker B:They just never saw it.
Speaker A:It was so new.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was so new.
Speaker B:So they never thought.
Speaker B:Saw women wrestling.
Speaker B:They never saw, you know, and then in fighting and whatnot.
Speaker B:So I remember when I was wrestling, I won the coach's Award my senior year.
Speaker B:Just given out to, like, one athlete who kind of exemplifies what it means to be a wrestler.
Speaker B:And I was like, man, to go.
Speaker B:That was still, to my day.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:To this day, I would say my biggest accomplishment was winning the Coach's Award in high school.
Speaker B:No, because it was the precursor.
Speaker B:It taught me something as a very young woman, that nothing is set in stone.
Speaker B:Nothing is written forever.
Speaker B:Like, you can always rewrite the chapter.
Speaker B:You can always write a new chapter.
Speaker B:And these guys that tried to get me to quit, that were such jerks in the beginning, just didn't know what they didn't know.
Speaker B:They didn't know what they didn't know.
Speaker B:They just genuinely thought that girls were not cut out to do this.
Speaker B:And I changed their mind.
Speaker B:So much so that they became, like, a brotherhood to me.
Speaker B:So learning that then I remember when Dana was so adamant, I was like, oh, he just doesn't know what he doesn't know.
Speaker B:Like, he doesn't know that we can be so awesome and badass.
Speaker B:Like, I didn't take offense to it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I.
Speaker B:But I Took a mission to it.
Speaker B:And I thought, well, if he ever watches me fight, I think I'll change his mind.
Speaker B:And maybe some people would say that's arrogant, but it was the truth.
Speaker B:Like, I really believe that I could.
Speaker B:Could change his mind with a worthy opponent.
Speaker B:And Rhonda was.
Speaker B:She was the rival.
Speaker B:She was, you know, she.
Speaker B:She brought a different eyes.
Speaker B:She brought different, you know, the controversy and our rivalry was so big, so massive that, yeah, sure enough, Dana was watching that, and Lorenzo was kind of already on board, but Dana was like, no, like, every interview that they'd ask about ones.
Speaker B:When will they bring one of the oceans?
Speaker B:Never, never, never, never.
Speaker B:Not gonna happen.
Speaker B:But then he watched my fight, and, you know, in.
Speaker B:That ended in an arm bar.
Speaker B:Of course, my arm was, like, bent backwards, like 90.
Speaker B:And I was, like, refusing to tap.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then eventually I did because I couldn't get out of it, and my arm was just being, like, mangled.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:So I tapped and.
Speaker B:Such a bummer.
Speaker B:But a couple weeks later, he called me.
Speaker A:Dana White did.
Speaker B:Dana White called me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he was like.
Speaker B:I was like, this is Dana White on my phone.
Speaker B:I was like, what?
Speaker B:And it was like, are you sitting down?
Speaker B:I was like, sat down.
Speaker B:And it was like, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm gonna give you a $50,000 bonus.
Speaker B:And that was more money than I had seen in all of my fight career, all my fights combined.
Speaker B:So that was life changing money for me.
Speaker B:And then he told me he was going to bring women into the ufc.
Speaker A:How did that feel?
Speaker B:It was just like, finally, you know, like.
Speaker B:And it felt like that I had already manifested this and it did not work out the way that I intended.
Speaker A:Never does.
Speaker B:I wanted to be the champion.
Speaker B:You know, coming into the ufc, I won so badly to win against Ronda, who I thought thought was just a brat, and.
Speaker B:And I wanted it so bad.
Speaker B:And so here I was nursing this, you know, arm injury.
Speaker B:I had grade two and three tears of my tricep and bicep.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:From Rhonda's arm.
Speaker A:Armbar.
Speaker B:And I had a vulged.
Speaker B:That's the terminology they used.
Speaker B:The tendons on both sides of my arm from the bone.
Speaker B:So basically ripped chunks of bone off with my tendons.
Speaker B:So my tendons were, like, loose, just floating with bone, intestine bone attached.
Speaker B:Which was actually a good thing because the bone grew back into the.
Speaker B:The bone.
Speaker B:It so re.
Speaker B:They reattached themselves.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I'm not a doctor, but that's what they told Me, because they said that if it had ripped the tenon clean off the bone, that I would have had to have surgery, and it would have been extremely difficult to reattach.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And here you are, just all bandaged up and just hard.
Speaker B:Heartbroken.
Speaker B:I mean, I was heartbroken.
Speaker B:I wanted so bad to, you know, to win that fight.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And it was everything to me.
Speaker B:I had tied my identity so heavily into winning or losing that that was who I was becoming, a winner or a loser.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:On every fight.
Speaker B:So to win.
Speaker B:I mean, to.
Speaker B:To lose against what had become my arch nemesis was the worst possible case on the.
Speaker B:The most widely televised female event ever.
Speaker B:Ever in history.
Speaker B:And I lost, and I wanted so badly to win, but in hindsight, now I can be fine with that.
Speaker B:Like, winning or losing is.
Speaker B:It doesn't carry the same weight.
Speaker B:I like to win.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker B:Like, of course.
Speaker B:Like, it's important to me.
Speaker B:I'll be sad, but, like, I'm still me with a loss.
Speaker B:So my foundation doesn't change.
Speaker A:Not at all.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So it doesn't rattle my core like it used to.
Speaker A:But he also had a lot of time to mature and process that phase, and now I'm sure you look at the UFC and you see these women's names on the fight cards, and you go, I spearheaded that.
Speaker A:My fight, Ronna and I's fight opened that door for all of these women.
Speaker A:So maybe it was you two slugging it out, and obviously there has to be a loser in it.
Speaker A:Unfortunately, that was the side that the coin landed on for you.
Speaker A:But look at the.
Speaker A:The total win as a whole of pioneering, opening the door into the UFC for women.
Speaker B:Yeah, this was big.
Speaker A:Want to talk about a win?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This was so much bigger than me, for sure, in that moment.
Speaker B:You know, I was selfishly looking at it, sulking and being sad, and I wanted that win.
Speaker B:But had I won, I don't think it would have had the impact on the sport that it did with the way that it played out.
Speaker B:And so looking at the big picture and really zooming out and taking my.
Speaker B:My own selfish desires in that moment out of it, this was the way it was supposed to be.
Speaker B:And it was such a humbling experience.
Speaker B:I learned so much from that.
Speaker B:I had to rebuild myself from just being at a.
Speaker B:The, like, the most broken point as an athlete, you know, athletically, not in my personal life yet.
Speaker B:I wasn't good in my personal life life, but I hadn't.
Speaker B:I still had the ability to.
Speaker B:To deal with it at the time.
Speaker B:I hadn't fully broken, so.
Speaker B:But I was broken as an athlete.
Speaker B:I was broken as the way I had tied myself into my.
Speaker B:My worth based on wins and losses.
Speaker B:So I was at a low point, but I was still managing.
Speaker B:And so I think it all worked out perfectly, just the way it was supposed to.
Speaker A:Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker A:It's hard a lot of times, the.
Speaker A:To process it in the moment or even afterward for a while.
Speaker A:It might take years, but.
Speaker A:Oh, just hearing this and.
Speaker A:And watching your journey through this, it was all part of God's plan for definitely everything that happened.
Speaker A:And then that fight, and then to get the call, you get offered the money to come into the ufc, you know, and you're just like, holy.
Speaker A:It's all coming together.
Speaker A:But I'm.
Speaker A:I'm sure this didn't come till probably way after the ufc, you know, in that process and healing, because obviously, you're in a pretty dark time.
Speaker A:Your life through this whole process, which nobody even probably knows about that side of your life, but you're trying to build this image, this name, spearheading the women into the ufc.
Speaker B:At that time, I didn't even think about that.
Speaker B:I actually still don't think about that until people bring it up to me.
Speaker B:I forget about that.
Speaker B:That part, like, the spearheading, like, it literally just dawned on me when you were talking about it.
Speaker B:I was like, no, that is.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:That's kind of true, but I just don't think about it very often in the sense that.
Speaker B:Of, like, that I had such a.
Speaker B:Like, a big part to do with it.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't think a lot of times people that pioneer things really even think about.
Speaker A:Especially when you're not going for that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That wasn't your goal.
Speaker A:Like, I'm gonna fight my ass off.
Speaker B:I love to say, like, oh, I did it, you know, for the good of women's mma, but this is not the truth.
Speaker B:Like, I was doing it selfishly.
Speaker B:And the byproduct was that it helped women's mma.
Speaker B:And I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I'm so glad that I was able to do that.
Speaker B:But I could never have done known at that time.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:That this would have been such a, like, impactful moment in the sport of women's mma.
Speaker B:So now you have to just look at it with gratitude, because at the time, I had no awareness.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker A:It's a great way.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:But from an outsider, I mean, looking in, what an accomplishment.
Speaker A:But it was just like anybody else.
Speaker A:When you're, when you're the first, you're not.
Speaker A:A lot of times you're not like, man, I'm gonna.
Speaker A:We're laying the groundwork.
Speaker A:It usually comes way after work.
Speaker A:Once it's accomplished, once everything's built, you could take that same step back and then realize, like, holy.
Speaker A:Like, this is all happening because of the men or women that walk the path before them.
Speaker A:And I mean, it's.
Speaker A:It's pretty cool.
Speaker A:It's gotta.
Speaker A:I know you say you don't think about it, but, I mean, it's something that you definitely.
Speaker A:I feel at some point in your life for.
Speaker A:Go to sit back and reflect and sit with your husband one day and be like, holy.
Speaker A:I'm sure you've done a lot of.
Speaker B:But maybe, you know, I, I definitely.
Speaker B:I. I know it, but I guess I just don't think about it that often.
Speaker B:I don't acknowledge it that much.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But there are great people along the way that will remind me, and I'm.
Speaker B:I'm grateful for that.
Speaker B:You know, I don't have to sit and like, you know, think how great I am all day because, like, truth is, like, there's next things to be accomplished.
Speaker B:There's, you know, and that's part of my past and I'm grateful.
Speaker B:But like, people will bring it up like you brought it up or.
Speaker B:I remember when Macy Barber, when I first met, met her, she fighter in the ufc, and she, she walked in the PI and she walked straight over to me and she just shook my hand.
Speaker B:She was like, it is so nice to meet you.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for what you've done for women's.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, you're welcome.
Speaker B:Like, I mean, you're welcome.
Speaker B:Like, I don't, you know, I don't.
Speaker B:It was just like.
Speaker B:But she was so sweet and genuine.
Speaker B:So, like, there are those little people, there's people along the way or conversations that make me reflect and say, wow, what.
Speaker B:How fortunate am I to, to be a part of something that was so instrumental that I didn't know that I was going to get to be.
Speaker A:Look, your kids are going to, you know, be teenagers one day and you're going to be watching a fight or something, and they're going to look at their mom and realize, my mom was the OG to this.
Speaker A:That's the cool thing.
Speaker A:You don't see you, but you're going to be able to.
Speaker A:And your grandkids are going to be like, my grandma was the first woman in the UFC fight, fighting.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's how I'm looking.
Speaker A:I know you don't see it now, but that.
Speaker A:That moment's gonna come when those kids are like, that's my grandma that.
Speaker B:Or that's my moment that it gets me.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It's gonna hit you.
Speaker A:That's why you're very humble and you're.
Speaker B:You've.
Speaker A:This is something that you didn't.
Speaker A:Wasn't your goal.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah, the fact that there's.
Speaker A:How many people in their life have an era that happen in that chapter of any part of their life that can say that I was part of the beginning.
Speaker A:The beginning of that.
Speaker A:Not very many, especially this day and age.
Speaker A:What new happens?
Speaker A:And the fact that you're.
Speaker A:You're spearheading with Ron Arousey, Cyborg, the Holly, all the.
Speaker A:You might as well put the Chuck Liddell's, the Ken Shamrocks.
Speaker A:You know, like, when you think of the early Randy Couture, you know, the Brock Lesnar's not.
Speaker A:I guess Brock came in left there.
Speaker A:But I was a huge Frank Mirror fan, so.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Brock Lesnar.
Speaker A:How was Frank Mirror?
Speaker A:Can I ask how he is?
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He's a little.
Speaker B:His, like, knee is bothering him, so he's been walking around on a cane.
Speaker B:Like, last time I saw.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, no.
Speaker B:Poor, poor Frank.
Speaker A:But what just died on us.
Speaker A:That just died.
Speaker A:That was weird.
Speaker A:That's not supposed to.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was like a light went off.
Speaker A:Are we unplugged here?
Speaker A:Oh, we are unplugged.
Speaker A:That helps.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:So was it on battery and it just kicked off.
Speaker B:I like your setup here, by the way.
Speaker B:I haven't said anything about that yet, but that's cool.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did you work on it a lot?
Speaker B:This was more my mom and my.
Speaker A:Dad's design was to keep kind of cozy, kind of warm.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just do it over here.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, thank you.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:Supposed to happen, but.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Battery.
Speaker A:Frank Mir is my absolute man crush.
Speaker A:For years.
Speaker A:Not.
Speaker A:I. I don't watch any sports.
Speaker B:You know, his daughter, you know, he has a daughter who's like a savage.
Speaker B:Her name's Bellamir.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:What a badass name.
Speaker B:A savage.
Speaker B:Keep an eye out.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Is she on this one of the Ultimate Fighter?
Speaker B:Oh, I don't know.
Speaker A:That would be cool.
Speaker A:What if he was a coach?
Speaker A:That would be bad.
Speaker B:Yeah, she.
Speaker B:But she's real good.
Speaker B:I worry a little bit about her being so young and, like, a lot of injuries.
Speaker B:Like, she's really pushing herself.
Speaker B:Hard, like as a older athlete, I kind of am like, oh, you're so young.
Speaker B:Like, like, I know you're ambitious, but like, take care of your.
Speaker B:Like, please.
Speaker B:Because like, yeah, it's like, it's rough, but it's hard to say, you know, it's hard.
Speaker B:You can't just infuse it into them.
Speaker B:Then that and she's so driven.
Speaker B:She's really good.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But I think you'll be hearing more of her.
Speaker B:Bellamir, she's awesome.
Speaker A:That if there was one old school dude that I could sit down and have a conversation with, he.
Speaker A:That would be it for me.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was such a big dude when I was almost.
Speaker A:I was fighting in the military, getting into that whole world, became an martial arts instructor.
Speaker A:So I was.
Speaker A:My average walker walk around was like 260, 270.
Speaker A:And everyone's like, you gotta fight, you gotta fight.
Speaker A:I'm just like, these are the gorillas that I gotta step in the ring with.
Speaker A:I'm like, I'm good just having my time here.
Speaker A:But Frank Mirror was one of the dudes that I was obsessed with.
Speaker A:Him.
Speaker A:That was.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was my.
Speaker B:Have you ever met him?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:That's why, that's why he's on my.
Speaker B:Yeah, we'll come to Vegas sometime and we'll, we'll work it out.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, I would love to.
Speaker B:Yeah, I saw his wife's number.
Speaker B:Yeah, I would probably his number two.
Speaker A:I would take him up.
Speaker A:I would, I would love to have a conversation with him.
Speaker A:His journey through life.
Speaker A:Okay, so back to you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like I was saying, you're.
Speaker A:You're going to see one day and your kids are going to know who you were.
Speaker A:As far as.
Speaker B:My kids always bring it home.
Speaker B:So that makes, that makes sense to me.
Speaker B:I think that, that they always, they bring so much circle.
Speaker B:Yeah, they bring everything full circle.
Speaker B:And honestly, you know, after I retired, I've been in a nine year toxic relationship relationship.
Speaker A:You want to dive into that a little bit.
Speaker A:It's, it's interesting as a girl dad, because I'm trying to raise these strong, independent, know their morals, know their values.
Speaker A:Strong.
Speaker A:They can handle themselves in these situations.
Speaker A:Which obviously hearing your story, you know, there was some lack of fathership and mentorship from the male role side, mentorship side of that.
Speaker A:And we look at you as this picture of strong, independent, baddest chick on the planet walking into the ring, facing some of the absolute murderers as far as other women.
Speaker A:But this whole entire time you're trapped in a relationship that is just slowly killing you.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It pretty much, if I'm not, if I might be mistaken, was a huge reason why you retired and kind of stepped up, away from the sport to handle your personal life.
Speaker A:Can we dig into this?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Okay, so how does a woman of your stature, everything you've accomplished, the ups and downs of failing and fighting and crawling yourself out of trenches, how do you end up in a relationship like this?
Speaker B:Well, it started when I was 19.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So I wasn't the woman that I am today.
Speaker B:There was still a lot of unpacking that I needed to do, still a lot of trauma that I needed to work through.
Speaker B:And granted, I had a good, I had a good upbringing with parents who loved me, who weren't perfect, but I didn't have like a 10 out of 10 trauma life.
Speaker B:And so I had my traumas like we all do for sure.
Speaker B:But I think where I really was looking to repair was I was trying to find that male stability in my life.
Speaker B:So I wasn't a promiscuous girl.
Speaker B:It wasn't like daddy issues that it was like, you know, I just want to go, go out and like sleep with a bunch of guys.
Speaker B:But I wanted to be in a relationship and I, I, but, but I feared marriage, but I wanted, I think I wanted to find someone who wouldn't leave me.
Speaker B:Wouldn't leave me?
Speaker B:Yeah, wouldn't have like, wouldn't leave me because I felt abandoned by my biological father.
Speaker B:And then I had a man that I was very, very close with that my mom dated from, from like zero to two, so before she met my dad, who raised me.
Speaker B:And him and I were like this, like we were inseparable.
Speaker B:I loved him with every fiber of my being, but he wasn't a very motivated man.
Speaker B:He was a stay at home, you know, stay at home dad.
Speaker B:So loving and sweet.
Speaker B:But I understand why my mom working overtime to provide and just having, you know, a guy was like great with her kid, but like laying around on couch, you know, smoking weed all day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What wasn't going to cut it?
Speaker B:Like, she needed a provider, she needed a man to show up.
Speaker B:And he was not going to be that.
Speaker B:But for me, I loved him.
Speaker B:He was my everything.
Speaker A:And he just left or what?
Speaker B:Well, yeah, they, they split and he was still in my life, but he never was a man with really a backbone.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And so when he got into his next relationship, everything changed.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They got married and they moved away.
Speaker B:And he's basic stuff for you.
Speaker A:So you pretty Much lost.
Speaker A:Your first male role model in your life and then your second.
Speaker A:Your.
Speaker A:Well, first your biological father.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Then this guy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which I wasn't really totally aware of because I didn't have the relationship with my biological father.
Speaker B:But I think by the time I was like a teenager, I did understand.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, wait a minute.
Speaker B:I was like, so my biological father is like, barely a part of my life, and he wasn't even around till I, like, you know, he wrote me a Christmas card when I was five years years old.
Speaker B:And my mom decided to be honest with me about it.
Speaker B:Despite, again, everyone's kind of like, you know, he hasn't been there.
Speaker B:He doesn't deserve that.
Speaker B:Shield her from it.
Speaker B:Don't talk to her about it.
Speaker B:Don't tell her about it.
Speaker B:She's like, I'm not.
Speaker B:Like, I'm for her.
Speaker B:I'm gonna tell her.
Speaker B:And like, my mom's.
Speaker B:They've always been that way.
Speaker B:Like, always very transparent.
Speaker B:Always giving me an opportunity to process.
Speaker B:Giving me an opportunity to have a voice.
Speaker B:And so I'm again, so grateful for that.
Speaker B:But I remember opening the Christmas card and.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:I wasn't reading at the time, so my mom read it to me.
Speaker B:But I remember the photo and it was like, you know, I'm your dad and this and that.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But the photo is black and white photo, and it was of my dad with like the 80s hair.
Speaker B:So, like, big old, you know, he was a rock star.
Speaker B:He was wearing tight leather pants with like a.
Speaker B:Like a leather open jacket with the electric guitar.
Speaker B:And he's just like jamming.
Speaker B:You know, it's a picture of him jamming of the car that.
Speaker B:That was him.
Speaker B:And I was like, that's my dad.
Speaker A:You're like, yes.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:I mean, it was just such a.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah, I still remember that picture, like, so vividly.
Speaker B:And I was like, that's my dad.
Speaker B:I was like, wow.
Speaker B:But he.
Speaker B:He toured all through the 80s and like, early 90s, and he opened for some.
Speaker B:Some major band stands.
Speaker B:I don't remember who, but, like, he is incredibly talented.
Speaker B:Anyways.
Speaker B:But that picture, I mean, it's just like not a normal picture.
Speaker B:Like, you expect if your dad was gonna, like, send you a picture, you know, it's like just like a picture, like sitting, smiling, something, you know, but like, no, it was like him as a rock star.
Speaker B:And I was like, my dad's a rock star.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Then the.
Speaker B:The male that I first bonded with, you know, left, and then I had My dad who raised me again, who, you know, who's like a friend, like a brother at first.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And then an extreme disciplinarian.
Speaker B:And then we had years where we just were not speaking.
Speaker B:Probably wasn't till I was about 16, we started to talk.
Speaker A:You went through a lot of abandonment stages that you started processing as a teenager.
Speaker A:So that's where now you're seeking somebody that's going to stay in your life and never leave.
Speaker A:Do you think a lot of that was rooted from going through all these male role models and your life?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:The mind is such a fascinating.
Speaker B:And then the, the downside of being so tough, like knowing that you can do hard things and get through hard things, was that I didn't have the perspective that I have now, which is just because I can doesn't mean I should.
Speaker B:It doesn't mean I have to.
Speaker B:And this is where I think a lot of women get short sighted when they get in a relationship that's not good for them, but they end up endure because they can not, because they should.
Speaker B:And they fear the leaving, you know, or someone leaving them.
Speaker B:That, that was my circumstance at least.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So I found my ex and I just thought he was so great, you know, he was an athlete and he was just Mr.
Speaker B:Cool and he was not very nice to me at first.
Speaker B:But I, I saw my mom also endure, you know, know, with, with my dad, like in a relationship that I was like, I never want that.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't want to get married if that, because I thought that's what marriage was.
Speaker B:So I was like, okay, I never want to get married and I don't want to have kids because kids keep you stuck.
Speaker B:So you can't, you know, if like things got bad.
Speaker B:But then I deep down like wanted someone to love me and not leave me.
Speaker B:So it was this weird combination of like the things that I thought I did and didn't want.
Speaker B:And so I ended up staying with him.
Speaker B:Him for about nine years.
Speaker A:When in your relationship did you, did you see or feel a shift to where you started to feel trapped?
Speaker B:Very early on.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, I would say within the first year because there would be times when we would get in arguments and he would like physically stop me from leaving, leaving the room.
Speaker B:Because I'm somebody who doesn't like to have explosive, volatile, like fights and conversations if I know that I'm about to say something that I don't mean or do something.
Speaker B:Like, I would rather remove myself from the situation, calm myself down, get collected and then like Come back and talk about it.
Speaker B:So when things would get to a point of escalation, it was like triggering for me because it was like what my mom and dad would do dope.
Speaker B:And I was like, I don't, I don't like this.
Speaker B:This is like very.
Speaker B:I don't like it.
Speaker B:So I would try to leave, but he didn't want, ever want me to leave.
Speaker B:Like, he was always like, claws in.
Speaker A:Got it.
Speaker B:So he would stop me How?
Speaker B:By whatever means necessary.
Speaker B:Like holding me down.
Speaker A:Oh, getting physical.
Speaker B:Yeah, physical.
Speaker B:Not.
Speaker B:Not hitting me.
Speaker B:It wasn't.
Speaker B:He wasn't like a, you know, I'm gonna beat you down kind of man, but he was like, like, well, I don't want you to leave, so therefore I will not let you.
Speaker B:So, yeah, he would physically hold me down, block the door, do whatever he needed to.
Speaker B:Wrap me up in a blanket, like, hold me, you know, just like.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:So, and then what's his tactic?
Speaker A:Did you start crying and apologize?
Speaker A:Like, how is he getting you to stay?
Speaker B:Usually he would just keep talking and talking and talking until you agree.
Speaker B:So you like, have this strategy of like, I'm not going to physically let you go until I've mentally gone.
Speaker B:Got you captivated.
Speaker A:That's scary.
Speaker B:So you have to kind of give to alleviate the situation.
Speaker B:But it's like once you say it out loud, somehow it becomes kind of.
Speaker A:Like you start to believe it.
Speaker B:Yeah, 100% you start to believe it.
Speaker A:So manipulation, right?
Speaker A:They get you to, to agree.
Speaker A:Now you're just, even though you're agreeing.
Speaker A:Okay, just let me go.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker B:You know, you can't leave because you know, if you tried to leave again at that point point you're going to go back in the same physical situation.
Speaker B:So then, then you just keep listening to them and at first you're like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And then eventually it's becomes like the emotional, like, they're sad, they're broken, and then your empathetic side comes out.
Speaker B:You start to feel sorry for them.
Speaker B:And then the cycle is the cycle.
Speaker B:And that's just how it basically continued every single time.
Speaker B:And every time that it would get to a point of escalation, I would want, want to leave, and he would physically stop me.
Speaker B:And then it would be just this mental, you know, process of, like, control.
Speaker A:And meanwhile, you're, you're trying to ride Cloud 9 on your fighting career, and then you have this relationship that is just tearing you apart all at this almost side.
Speaker A:You're, you're, you're trying to explore this.
Speaker A:This life that you.
Speaker A:You're unfolding here in the ufc.
Speaker A:You're in the fight MMA world, and this guy has just got his hooks in you.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Okay, so looking back now, why did you stay for nine years?
Speaker B:That's such a. I mean, it's a really good question, if I'm going to be honest.
Speaker B:And a lot of people ask me that.
Speaker B:And I think that I remember talking to my great uncle about this.
Speaker B:He was one of the few men in my life that I could reach out to and didn't know anybody doesn't have social media.
Speaker B:You know, he was my grandmother's youngest brother, and he said, you know, Misha, you are so afraid of hurting him that you choose to hurt yourself instead.
Speaker B:And I had to really sit on that one.
Speaker B:And I said, it just never left me.
Speaker B:I said, he's absolutely right because I could endure.
Speaker B:I. I would.
Speaker B:Because I felt that I had.
Speaker B:I could do it.
Speaker B:I had the strength to do it, and I felt that he didn't.
Speaker A:So you were picking up his slack for him, Correct?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I. I cared.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm.
Speaker B:I. I am a.
Speaker B:Like a deep, loving person.
Speaker B:I wanted things to.
Speaker B:I wanted to be able to.
Speaker B:To help him and to fix him and to heal him.
Speaker B:And I know that he has a lot of his own trauma, too, you know, so I can't even look back at it and be angry.
Speaker B:He was a broken person, too.
Speaker B:I mean, geez, like, yeah, we were just so broken.
Speaker B:It's just such a toxic combination.
Speaker B:And I still think that he hasn't changed, and he's still very toxic.
Speaker B:I don't think he has the ability to.
Speaker B:I truly think that he's a narcissist.
Speaker B:Like, I know that word is thrown around.
Speaker B:I know there's a lot of people labeled that, but if he's not diagnosed, I honestly think he is.
Speaker B:And he's.
Speaker B:If not at the very least, is extremely manipulative.
Speaker A:I mean, very much terrifying.
Speaker B:Very manipulative.
Speaker A:That's where I'm not learning it as a girl, dad, you know, and now that she's in the dating world.
Speaker A:But it's one of those things that terrifies me.
Speaker A:And I know, mom, because for men and women, when you have somebody that can.
Speaker A:It is very good at manipulating.
Speaker A:That's how they turn you against your family.
Speaker B:That's what happened to.
Speaker A:Oh, he really.
Speaker A:He drove.
Speaker A:Drove a wedge in between you and your family.
Speaker B:My mom.
Speaker A:I was going to say.
Speaker A:Yeah, because your mom.
Speaker A:I'm just going To.
Speaker A:I'm just going to.
Speaker A:I'm going to see if I could paint this picture.
Speaker A:He knows how tight you are with your mom.
Speaker A:Doesn't like the fact you confide in your mom, so he starts drawing a wedge.
Speaker A:Your mom knows who he is as a person person, so she probably voices her opinion.
Speaker A:And so whenever a narcissist knows somebody's on to them, they'll do whatever they can do to remove that person out of their life.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Almost textbook.
Speaker B:It's almost sex book.
Speaker A:And you don't see it, though.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Down the road you will.
Speaker A:But slowly, slowly, over time, he's chipping away at you.
Speaker A:So now you're less conversation with your mom.
Speaker A:Don't see.
Speaker A:Don't talk very often.
Speaker A:Now he's your only world, which happens to a lot of women, I feel.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:And it's a natural process in the sense that kids are supposed to leave the nest and find their forever person.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So, so, so, so it's progressionally appropriate that at 19, 20, 21, 22, that I am, you know, starting to try to spread my wings in the sense that, like, mom, I'm not staying in your nest forever.
Speaker B:I'm trying to build my own nest.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But she was like, they're not with this one.
Speaker B:Like, it's not the.
Speaker B:He's not the one.
Speaker B:And so they just know.
Speaker B:Yeah, some parents just.
Speaker B:Just butted heads majorly.
Speaker B:And so there's some years there where I did not speak to my mom.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And not years and year.
Speaker B:And there was.
Speaker B:Yeah, I didn't really speak to my dad or my siblings or really any of my family because it was too hard.
Speaker B:He would make it so difficult and he would always be, like, in my ear on one side.
Speaker B:And, and like, I just, you know, I. I'm.
Speaker B:Because this is a conversation we're having and we're talking about the hard stuff.
Speaker B:But the problem when you're in a relationship like this is that it's not always bad and it's not always hard.
Speaker B:There are times that they make it so great or so seem so hopeful.
Speaker B:And especially after the hard, like when it gets really hard.
Speaker B:And that's what you hang on to.
Speaker B:You hang on to those moments or the promises or the changes or like, you know, that they're going to make these changes, and then they do for a little bit and.
Speaker B:And then it slips back in.
Speaker B:But then they say that, like, so much of it's your fault.
Speaker B:Or, you know, what he used to tell me all the time is like, Nobody will love you.
Speaker B:Like, basically, like, nobody will love you the way that I love you.
Speaker B:Like, nobody can, like, nobody can love you as much as I love you.
Speaker B:And it would always be that messaging.
Speaker B:And so I think it was kind of like when building off of the fear and anxiety of losing the male in your life.
Speaker B:And was it me?
Speaker B:Like, was it me?
Speaker B:You know, you start to question.
Speaker B:And as a young woman, I was so much more vulnerable to this because I did not have the confidence that I have now.
Speaker B:I mean, now I'm not afraid to say, to disagree with you.
Speaker B:I'm not afraid to disagree with anybody.
Speaker B:I'm not afraid to be exactly who I am and very strong in my stance.
Speaker B:And I think that I owe that to my children.
Speaker B:So, like, they have truly changed my life in such a major way that I'm like, I, I not only want to show them example, I want to be the example.
Speaker A:Have to.
Speaker B:And fortunately, Johnny, who I'm with now, has given me just being by who he is.
Speaker B:So he's just naturally who he is.
Speaker B:Like, the safety and the ability to like, fall into to myself and really become who I am.
Speaker B:He is completely like, hands off.
Speaker B:Like, he lets me be who I am and that's why I fell in love with him.
Speaker B:That's one of the main reasons, because coming out of this long relationship of somebody who is just constantly like brow beating and like putting me down and, and wanting me to stay here.
Speaker B:So like, I would never, I would never leave, you know, and, and so.
Speaker A:They don't want to see you grow.
Speaker B:Yeah, not at all.
Speaker B:Like, be a servant and like constantly belittling me.
Speaker B:I remember through my, my fight career always just like, you wouldn't be anything without me.
Speaker B:Like, you would never have amounted to this.
Speaker B:I gave you your whole career.
Speaker B:Meanwhile, like, he was a talented athlete in his own right, fought in the UFC as well, but he had such mental performance issues and anxiety issues that it was like crippling for him where, like, we all have some degree of that, but it wasn't crippling for me.
Speaker B:Like, I moved through it and I would like get through, like, if I was scared, I would, like, I would over overcome it.
Speaker A:Some people can't.
Speaker B:But him, like, you know, he was like puking over the trash cans and like, and, you know, not to say, like, he still couldn't perform.
Speaker B:He, he, he did, he was talented, but it, it was, it was easier for him to justify that.
Speaker B:It was easier for me to do it and make the money and like, he could just like, spend it and not have to do the heavy lift, but, like, still take the credit for me and my career and make sure that I knew that, like, I was here.
Speaker A:So he's too scared to do it on his own.
Speaker A:So he's living vicariously through you but trying to control you in your career because he can't do it on his own.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, I mean, he did fight, so I don't say he can't do it on his own, but slowly he started fighting less and then more on you.
Speaker B:Pouring more on me.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But then under the guys that, like, well, you know, it's easier.
Speaker B:You know, it's like my road to try to get to the title is, like, way harder than your road.
Speaker B:Which.
Speaker B:Which, that.
Speaker B:That's a fact, actually.
Speaker B:There's more men.
Speaker B:It is harder.
Speaker B:But his justification of but.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:It was like, we all have our own, you know, cry me a river, bro.
Speaker A:Like, that's the whole point of the challenge.
Speaker A:And making it to the top.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:Which he had the talent to do that.
Speaker B:It actually has a win over Al Jermaine Sterling.
Speaker B:She's very talented.
Speaker B:But he just found it easier to not have to do the.
Speaker B:The hardest thing.
Speaker B:And the hardest thing is, like, going.
Speaker B:Going through training camp, doing the dieting, doing the fighting.
Speaker B:He was like, well, you're gonna make more money and it's easier for you.
Speaker B:And it's like women's fighting.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I'll just coach you and take all the credit and make sure, you know that you never in your head can get big enough to be confident and see, like, how great you.
Speaker A:Really are in reality, get big enough to realize how great you really are.
Speaker A:So you don't need him.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:Because he.
Speaker B:Because I. I tried to.
Speaker B:I tried to start leaving the relationship, like, trying to break up about four and a half years into the relationship.
Speaker A:Okay, so when did.
Speaker A:When was your aha.
Speaker A:Moment that he was manipulating you?
Speaker A:Was there a come to Jesus moment?
Speaker B:I think I knew deep down, but I wasn't willing to go there.
Speaker B:And part of it was pride, too, because I had had separated from my family so much that I didn't want to just give up on it so that they could be right.
Speaker B:So part of it was that was like, not wanting to, you know, have to swallow.
Speaker B:Yeah, swallow.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Swallow the pride.
Speaker B:Because they were constantly telling me that I shouldn't be with him.
Speaker B:So I wanted to prove them wrong.
Speaker B:I was stubborn.
Speaker B:And so he actually went on the Ultimate Fighter and he was gone for, like, out of my life, but we were still, like, still together.
Speaker B:But he was on the ultimate fighter for six or eight weeks, and I.
Speaker A:Was like, you got a little breather.
Speaker B:That was a come to Jesus moment for me.
Speaker B: I: Speaker B:I needed to know what it's like to function without him.
Speaker B:And, um.
Speaker B:But I didn't want.
Speaker B:I. I wanted him to do well on the ultimate fighter because I wanted him to be set up to, like, I. I still, like, I didn't wish bad on him, so I was hoping, like, to keep the peace and, like, hopefully he did as well as he could.
Speaker B:So, like, when he comes home and, like, we're.
Speaker B:We are broken up, like, we're separated, that he has something going for him.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That's not how it worked out.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Like, when he came home calm, it was.
Speaker B:And it was a disaster.
Speaker B:Like, the.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Because he lost.
Speaker B:He didn't make it to the very.
Speaker B:Yeah, he won one or two, and then he lost one.
Speaker B:I think he was out of the tournament.
Speaker B:Still fighting on the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The ultimate fighter card, but not as,.
Speaker A:Like, the, you know, contenders.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But he didn't want me to leave, obviously, so there was just.
Speaker B:It was this, like.
Speaker B:It was a nightmare.
Speaker A:How's he getting you to stay?
Speaker A:I mean, are you trying to leave?
Speaker A:Have you tried to break up with this guy and move on?
Speaker A:What's.
Speaker A:What's his tactic?
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:Besides holding you if he couldn't physically hold me?
Speaker B:Because at the points, I mean, you can't physically hold someone all the time.
Speaker B:And I was wisening up to this, you know, so, like, I started to feel less of the draw to stay after the fact that I had said all the things that he wanted me to say.
Speaker B:I was, like, waking up to it, I was like.
Speaker B:Like, this is.
Speaker B:I. I'm no longer, like, under the spell.
Speaker A:I don't want the game.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, I don't.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:I would say all the things and then, like, he would, like, let me go out of the house or, like, you know, I'd be like, yeah, I still don't.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I don't want to stay.
Speaker B:I don't want to be in this relationship.
Speaker B:And I knew it.
Speaker B:But then what he would do is he would threaten to kill himself.
Speaker A:He was one of those.
Speaker A:Yeah, Well, I have learned one thing in my life.
Speaker A:The dudes that are like, I'm going to kill myself.
Speaker A:You leave me.
Speaker A:Are the biggest bitches you've ever met in your life.
Speaker A:They're the most insecure little.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they don't.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:He was one of those.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that was.
Speaker A:Okay, so how does that affect you now?
Speaker A:Because now you've.
Speaker A:Does that trap you as a woman when the dude says, I'm gonna kill myself?
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:And mind you, in college, I had lost a boyfriend that I was only with for like six months.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So not a long, long relationship, but he killed himself while we were together.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:And so there.
Speaker B:That was, like, terrifying.
Speaker A:Now, now, did he know this?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So he used that against you?
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:He knew.
Speaker A:This dude's a.
Speaker A:What a scumbag.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So he's.
Speaker A:He's capitalizing off of trauma in your life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So now he's pulling ultimate manipulation.
Speaker A:Can I ask.
Speaker A:Can I ask you kind of a deep question?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How bad.
Speaker A:How did that.
Speaker A:That affect you when your boyfriend took his life?
Speaker B:It was horrific because, I mean, granted, it was.
Speaker B:You know, we weren't in that deep of a.
Speaker B:You know, it was six months of college, but, but, but, like.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, for anybody.
Speaker B:I mean, he was so young, and I was so just.
Speaker B:I was devastated because you have all the questions, you know, like, what could I have done differently, like, why?
Speaker B:You know, but his name was Apollo, and, you know, the poor boy, like, he was so abused as a child.
Speaker B:Like, we barely started to unpack it, but those demons were real, real heavy.
Speaker B:That didn't have anything, you know, anything to do with me.
Speaker B:Granted, our relationship wasn't, you know, it wasn't perfect, and it obviously it would not have worked out long term.
Speaker B:He was too, Too damaged.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And, but, you know, that was so sad.
Speaker B:It was so heartbreaking.
Speaker A:And so this guy capitalizes on because that's, that's major trauma.
Speaker A:So now you're with this guy.
Speaker B:I quit going to college.
Speaker B:I quit.
Speaker B:I. I. Yeah, I mean, I was just.
Speaker B:I was puking.
Speaker B:I was physically sick.
Speaker B:I was so devastated.
Speaker B:He was, like, gone.
Speaker B:He hung himself.
Speaker A:Did you see or find this or was this.
Speaker B:I did not see.
Speaker B:Was like, his cousin, I think that found him.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So he was a fighter as well.
Speaker B:And he put like a.
Speaker B:A rope or belt around his neck, and so his feet were actually on the floor, which is what.
Speaker B:What's wild?
Speaker B:But he knew how.
Speaker B:How?
Speaker B:Because through fighting to cut off the carotids.
Speaker B:So you basically just put it on tight enough, you lose consciousness, and then you.
Speaker B:You dangle.
Speaker B:And that was how he took his life.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And so you're living with that you don't have a male figure in your life to help you process this.
Speaker A:You meet this guy and he uses that against you as a tool.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker A:To keep you trapped.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I didn't want, I didn't to want, want him.
Speaker B:I didn't, I still don't, I don't wish anything bad for him, you know, I, I wish, I pray that he can find himself, that he can figure it out, that he can be a better man, that he can.
Speaker B:You know, he has a daughter now.
Speaker B:And I, I just, I, I just pray, I pray for him.
Speaker B:I pray for him all the time that I, I hope that he, he can find what it is that he doesn't have or what that he missing.
Speaker A:So you're would get to the verge of leaving.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But then you can't leave to save your life because he's threatening to take his life.
Speaker A:So you feel leaving the situation is going to cost somebody their life.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker A:Which has just held you there for.
Speaker A:You said you were over about year four and you did nine years.
Speaker A:So you a long time grinded out five more years with this guy.
Speaker B:Because I kept convincing myself, okay, if he's going to kill himself now, like, I can do a better job of easing our separation, like easing it off.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Then I would just get sucked back in.
Speaker A:It's like get good for a little bit.
Speaker A:You kind of forget.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Like after that big low.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Things improve.
Speaker B:It's hopeful.
Speaker B:And then just the amount of like, you know, the lift and the fear of everything that comes with trying to leave, every time you try to do it and you fail, it's just like that much harder to try to do it again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I was the kind of person and I, I felt like I, it was only right to try to.
Speaker B:If you were going to break up with someone you had been with and that you care about and that you love in a way to do it in person.
Speaker B:And when I finally left, I, I had realized, like, I can't do this in person because there's a control factor that's out of my control physically and mentally and emotionally.
Speaker B:So when I finally did break up with him, I was away from him.
Speaker B:I was, it was, it was, yeah, it was over a text message.
Speaker B:And then I turned my phone off and I said, you know, I, I wasn't as close to God then, but, you know, a prayer that for sure he wouldn't take his own life.
Speaker B:But I had to accept that.
Speaker B:Okay, if he did, like, I had to try to come to terms with.
Speaker B:Like, was it on my hands or wasn't it?
Speaker A:You know, that's a huge, huge.
Speaker A:That's a huge statement that you TR the fact that you're at that stage in your life where you have to make the, the call.
Speaker A:And I don't mean this in like a non emotional, empathetic way, but you're just like, okay, it's going to cost me my life or his is what it's coming down to.
Speaker A:And you had to make that jump.
Speaker A:And that's got to be terrifying.
Speaker A:I don't even know how you process that.
Speaker A:That, okay, I'm going to send this as soon as you hit send might cost somebody, somebody their life.
Speaker A:Like, that's a, that's a major weight to bear for anybody that this person that you've been with for nine years has threatened to kill themselves.
Speaker B:It's terrifying.
Speaker A:And now you're going to push scent because obviously you're not going to do it in person.
Speaker A:I'm one of those, like, every breakup should be in person, but there are certain ones that.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker A:This is that situation where you're like.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I tried that so many times.
Speaker B:I remember I was with one of my best friends at her, at her fight and she had won.
Speaker B:And this is when the breakup happened.
Speaker B:And he kept calling me and calling me and calling me and she was trying to do her post media stuff and we were just like, so happy.
Speaker B:I was so happy for her.
Speaker B:And he kept blowing up my phone and he was like talking to me about this problem.
Speaker B:But the thing is, is that every solution that I would come up with, he had already thought of and, and been like, you know, I've already thought of that and this is why this wouldn't work.
Speaker B:Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:So like he just wanted to argue with me.
Speaker B:There was nothing that I could say.
Speaker B:There wasn't something he was actually looking for.
Speaker B:It was more for.
Speaker B:To get me to say a thing so he could like yell at me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:About why that wouldn't work.
Speaker B:And I'm like, well, you know, if there's.
Speaker B:I was like, I really gotta go.
Speaker B:Like, my friend just won her fight.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm trying to like, you know, we're, we're happy.
Speaker B:And I'm just on the phone with you fighting and you're just fighting with me like there's nothing I can do and say I can't win.
Speaker B:Like I'm Trying.
Speaker B:I've tried to give you all the things, and I don't know what else you want.
Speaker B:What do you want me to say?
Speaker B:I was like, I don't have.
Speaker B:Like, I can't just pull a magic rabbit out of my hat.
Speaker B:Like, I don't.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Like, I've given you everything I've tried to give, but, like, can you please be considerate of this moment?
Speaker B:Because it wasn't.
Speaker B:This was not, like, a pressing thing, like, needed to be solved right now, like, hey, dog's dying.
Speaker B:Do we take him to the bed or not?
Speaker B:It was nothing like that.
Speaker B:It was something that could have been dealt with the next day.
Speaker B:But, no, he wanted my attention in that moment.
Speaker A:Control.
Speaker B:He wanted control.
Speaker B:And he was mad that I, you know, was there.
Speaker B:And, like, he wasn't invited on this.
Speaker B:Like, I had not.
Speaker B:I didn't want him to come because they knew he would ruin it.
Speaker B:I was on the phone with him, and he was ruining it.
Speaker B:And I just put my phone away for the night.
Speaker B:And, like, the next day, I was, like, just blown up all these messages, and I was like, I was in Kansas City, and I was like, him and I were living in Las Vegas.
Speaker B:I was like, not.
Speaker B:I'm not going home.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm not doing it.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I'm like, I'm not taking the flight.
Speaker B:And so I ended up road tripping to.
Speaker B:With a friend to, like, Colorado, and I didn't know what I was going to do.
Speaker B:Like, I had no idea, but I was like, I can't go back.
Speaker B:I can't go back.
Speaker A:And you're.
Speaker A:You're a champion at this point, correct?
Speaker A:Trying to put your timeline together.
Speaker B:Strike Force.
Speaker B:I had been a Strike Force Force champ.
Speaker B:Let me think about that for a second.
Speaker B:I had been Strike Force champ.
Speaker B:I had been.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Now I'm thinking back, I'm like, like, going through all my timeline.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I had been the UFC champion.
Speaker B:I had lost it, and then.
Speaker B:So I lost to Amanda.
Speaker B:So this was after fighting Amanda Nunes,.
Speaker A:Which is a terrifying person, and I.
Speaker B:Fought her in July.
Speaker B:So this must have happened shortly, like, right around then, like, after that.
Speaker A:What was this with her in this relationship?
Speaker A:What was the darkest points, because you talked about suicide at some point.
Speaker A:Did he.
Speaker A:Did he bring you to that point?
Speaker A:Was he just a culminate?
Speaker A:Like, it piled everything on as far as getting you to that dark spot?
Speaker B:He definitely had a big part of it because he'd isolated me from all the Comforts, but yet he wasn't.
Speaker B:He wasn't a comfort.
Speaker B:Absolutely going to validate anything that I was going through feeling.
Speaker B:And so when I won my world title against Holly Holm, I was actually already on my downward spiral with him.
Speaker A:Was the whole downward spiral all based around him, or were there other things going on in your life?
Speaker B:Well, I think I was missing a lot in my life for sure.
Speaker B:So it wasn't maybe that there was active.
Speaker B:You know, there was unresolved.
Speaker B:A lot of unresolved things.
Speaker B:Like, a lot of things that I had just left packed away somewhere that.
Speaker A:Had never understood it.
Speaker B:And so I just hadn't moved through anything.
Speaker B:I had just been very stagnant.
Speaker B:I focused only on fighting, and I dealt with the relationship the best that I could.
Speaker B:And I honestly had conditioned myself to believe that I was going to be better in and successful in spite of.
Speaker B:So, like, the more challenging that life was outside and the camp, and, like, the harder it was, like, the better I was going to do in my fights, because that's how I thought I was.
Speaker B:I was, like, under that mental belief that I needed the adversity because that's what fuel me.
Speaker B:Okay, So I had come accustomed only because I'd come accustomed to it.
Speaker B:So it was always part of the process.
Speaker B:So I had to try to spin it to make it the positive.
Speaker B:Like, look, you're still.
Speaker B:You still do well.
Speaker B:Like, that's great.
Speaker B:Like, you're gonna do great because this has been like a shit show for sure.
Speaker B:So you're gonna be amazing.
Speaker B:And eventually, like, it worked until it didn't work.
Speaker B:And I remember when I was cutting weight for the fight with Amanda, so I was the champ already, and I was cutting weight with my head coach, and he was like, you know, it was International Fight Week, so there was fights on Friday and on Saturday, and so he was like, can I.
Speaker B:Do you care if I go to the fights?
Speaker B:And I was like, honestly?
Speaker B:I was like, yeah, please go.
Speaker B:Because he was, like, such a pain in the ass.
Speaker B:Like, when you're cutting weight miserable, like, you're miserable, you're going to be more grumpy.
Speaker B:You might say something, you know, that you wouldn't normally say.
Speaker B:You just don't have.
Speaker B:You have zero patience.
Speaker B:Like, everyone knows cutting weight culture, including him, but he would have given me zero.
Speaker B:Like, no leniency, no slack, or wouldn't be there or would just be a dick.
Speaker B:Like, just.
Speaker B:Just be making it harder.
Speaker B:There were so many times early in my career, like, I cut weight by myself in a Bathtub, you know, he was like watching TV in the other room.
Speaker B:Like, I was like, can we like go to the, like the sauna?
Speaker B:And he's like, do you have to like, can we just like, can't you just like cut it in the bathroom?
Speaker B:It was just like very self centered.
Speaker B:And so I was having a hard weight cut.
Speaker B:I was cutting weight for my title fight.
Speaker B:So to make 135 instead of 136.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you have to ride on the dot for championship.
Speaker B:So I'm the champ right now.
Speaker B:I just beat Holly Holm and I'm fighting Amanda and I'm.
Speaker B:I'm cutting weight hard.
Speaker B:And he comes in from the, the fights smelling like beer.
Speaker B:He was obviously intoxicated and he brought like these basketball players and like other people like there, like, and that was just like, not appropriate.
Speaker B:Like, but he was like trying to like, network.
Speaker B:I don't know what he was trying to do, but like to see me, to meet me, to whatever.
Speaker B:And it was a very inappropriate moment because I'm like in, you know, sauna suit, just like sweating, dying.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not personable in that moment.
Speaker B:Not a good moment.
Speaker B:And so like, Coach Follis was like, bro, like, no, like, go.
Speaker B:You know, and he, luckily he was there for me.
Speaker B:He was, you know, he was advocating for me.
Speaker B:But it was just like a lot of moments like that where it was just about Brian and he didn't care, you know, like, he just assumed like, I would power through and win the next day and, and I didn't, you know, well.
Speaker B:And when I won the title, that was honestly one of the, the hardest moments for me because it was so good.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:And then I realized it fixed nothing because I truly had bought into the fact that, like, oh, that must be why I'm not happy, because I haven't accomplished the ultimate goal.
Speaker B:So I kept putting so much emphasis on like, if I just become that world champion, then I'll be happy.
Speaker A:And you ended up becoming a world champion and it wasn't there for you.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:So now you're processing that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I'm, I'm very comfortable.
Speaker B:Confused for sure.
Speaker B:Which is like, now you see behind the curtain and you realize the answer's not there.
Speaker B:So then you're like, well, where is it?
Speaker B:Because if it's not in that, that's what I put all my eggs in the basket.
Speaker B:Now everything's shattered in a mess and I don't know what to do with the pieces because the truth is, I've come to find that it doesn't fix anything.
Speaker B:So that was honestly the moment that I really.
Speaker B:I would say that I really broke was right after winning the title.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:So winning the ultimate goal for you was at the same time, rock bottom for you.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Because I thought it was going to fix everything.
Speaker A:And now you're process.
Speaker A:You're in your room, you got this title, you got the bell, and I have all the same problems, and nothing changed.
Speaker B:Nothing changed.
Speaker B:Nothing changed.
Speaker A:Was that a huge aha moment for you, or did it take you a while to process that?
Speaker B:No, it was a huge aha moment because after the high of riding the win and you know, that first week or two where there's all the interviews and everyone's so excited for you, and like, every.
Speaker B:You know, they're there in Vegas, and then, you know, everyone goes home, and you're kind of, like, sitting there with yourself, and you're like, my life is still not.
Speaker B:Not good.
Speaker B:Like, this is not good.
Speaker B:I'm not good.
Speaker B:I'm not okay.
Speaker B:And I really had to check in with myself in that moment and be like, then what is it?
Speaker B:And I didn't.
Speaker B:I mean, I knew the relationship was real bad.
Speaker B:I knew it was bad.
Speaker B:I knew things had really progressed in such a horrible direction, but I didn't have it figured out.
Speaker B:Like, I didn't know how to get through it except to fight again.
Speaker B:So I signed a fight after winning.
Speaker B:I tried to fight again pretty quickly despite, like, my managers.
Speaker B:You know, he's like, no, just don't worry about defending it.
Speaker B:Just, like, enjoy it.
Speaker B:Like, ride the wave of, like, being the champ.
Speaker B:But when I was so broken and so depressed and so there's so many things that I was not addressing.
Speaker B:I refused to address that.
Speaker B:I was like, well, the only way that I've ever felt better before is to get another.
Speaker B:Another win.
Speaker A:So that's your drug?
Speaker B:This is my drug.
Speaker B:I needed a bump, essentially.
Speaker A:You need a fight.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it could be worse.
Speaker B:Yeah, it could have been worse.
Speaker B:I could have picked worse drug.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker A:It could.
Speaker A:But at the same time, a drug's a drug.
Speaker B:A drug is a drug.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was my.
Speaker B:It was my dopamine.
Speaker B:It was my.
Speaker B:My cure.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:The problem was in the next fight when I fought Amanda, and I was already.
Speaker B:I was just.
Speaker B:I was so far down, and.
Speaker B:And I thought briefly that maybe if I defended my belt.
Speaker B:Because you're not really truly a champ until you defend your belt, right?
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:So they say.
Speaker B:I was like, well, maybe that's what it is.
Speaker B:So they say, yeah, so they say.
Speaker B:And I was like, well, maybe if I defend my belt, then maybe it'll be better.
Speaker B:But I already kind of knew.
Speaker B:But I was like, I didn't know what else.
Speaker B:I had nothing else to put in place of that.
Speaker B:This ideology that I'd created.
Speaker B:And so I was like, okay, I'll.
Speaker B:I'll defend my belt, and that'll be great.
Speaker B:And then I lost.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then I still was like, oh, well, maybe I just need to fight again.
Speaker B:But I was just going downhill rapidly.
Speaker A:So after how many people are seeing this?
Speaker A:Is there anybody even aware that you're spiraling now?
Speaker A:You win the belt, the high wears off, now you start chasing it, and now the spiral.
Speaker A:Is this where the spiral really starts to set in for you and you have anybody in your corner at this point?
Speaker B:Nobody.
Speaker A:Is this rock bottom for you?
Speaker B:Yeah, this is where I was.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was spiraling.
Speaker B:And so I, I.
Speaker A:You're still in the relationship.
Speaker B:I broke up with him after that fight with Amanda.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So right after that, okay, I broke up with him.
Speaker A:So now you're out of a relationship, you lost your title belt, you have nobody in your life that's even knows what's going on and what you're facing.
Speaker B:The only person that knew a little bit because he was inside was Robert Fis, who was our coach, my coach at the time who has since passed away to suicide.
Speaker B:So it's just, you know, Robert was dealing with his own demons, but he always showed up for me, you know, and there was that mentor, he was that father figure, and he protected me a lot during the times when Brian was, like, just being chaos and an in training and things, you know, he was someone that I could turn to, and he would buffer, he would help the relationship to, you know, function a little bit better.
Speaker B:And Brian trusted him too, for whatever reason, like, he was Brian's coach.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, so I.
Speaker B:That was the one person that was in that kind of knew.
Speaker B:Maybe not all of it, but he was aware and he saw a lot of it firsthand.
Speaker B:So what were.
Speaker A:How were you coping?
Speaker A:I mean, did you turn to anything or was it just depression?
Speaker A:Yeah, what's.
Speaker A:What's setting in it during the spiral?
Speaker B:It was just depression.
Speaker B:I mean, I was a casual drinker, but I wasn't using alcohol as, like a crutch.
Speaker B:So, no, I was just.
Speaker B:I was spiraling.
Speaker B:I didn't really have anything to turn to.
Speaker B:I wasn't even close to God in that time in my life.
Speaker B:So I didn't really feel like I had the right to like, reach out to God at that point because I hadn't been a good.
Speaker B:I hadn't been a good follower of Christ.
Speaker B:I mean, I believed that God was there.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I knew he was there, but I felt guilty.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Guilty?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So I didn't feel like it was right of me.
Speaker B:I was like, no, I have to figure this out.
Speaker A:You're figuring it out on your own.
Speaker A:Trying to at least trying to.
Speaker B:And I was failing.
Speaker B:So I did.
Speaker B:The only thing that I could think of was, which was to take another fight.
Speaker A:So take your mind off things.
Speaker B:Yeah, that fight was try to get a win, try to get some value back.
Speaker B:Because I had lost two fights in a row for the, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, not for the first time, but yeah, I lost two.
Speaker B:It sucks to lose two fights in a row, but I'd lost my title.
Speaker B:And then I lost.
Speaker B:I took the fight to.
Speaker B:With Raquel Pennington and it was, was such a cool opportunity and it just sucks that I was where I was in my life because it was at Madison Square Garden.
Speaker B:For the first time ever that UFC was legalized in New York.
Speaker B:And it was just an amazing event and I remember none of it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was just gonna ask, how did you edit what was that like?
Speaker B:I think what my maladaptive coping skill as a child, what I learned to do do is disassociate data, dump it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just kind of like, you just don't be there.
Speaker B:It's almost like an out of body experience.
Speaker B:You, you're in, you're here, but you're not.
Speaker B:You are every anywhere else.
Speaker A:Holy.
Speaker A:So you're fighting in the Madison Square Gardens and you just are completely rock bottom.
Speaker A:You don't even remember.
Speaker B:I remember like a.
Speaker B:A brief moment in the fight when I was like, I don't want to be doing, doing this.
Speaker A:You were done.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just knew.
Speaker A:Have you ever watched that fight?
Speaker A:Rewatched it?
Speaker B:I try, I try to watch round one.
Speaker B:I've watched round one.
Speaker A:Are you a different person then?
Speaker A:Could you.
Speaker A:Can you tell in yourself by watching it how broken?
Speaker B:I was sick.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was sick.
Speaker B:I remember that I thought watching it, that I looked better than I felt.
Speaker B:I was like looking up from the outsider's eye.
Speaker B:You probably just think like, Misha looks a little like, not her best to tonight, but like she's, she's fighting, you know, like I look normal, like I was on autopilot.
Speaker B:But the way that I felt inside, you could not See it.
Speaker B:You couldn't see it in that fight.
Speaker A:You're really good at hiding it.
Speaker B:I. I must have been.
Speaker B:Yeah, I guess I was.
Speaker B:I mean, nobody knew.
Speaker A:Do you think it was years of dealing with toxic relationship?
Speaker A:You just had to learn how to just put a smile on and be a face to these fans, these young girls.
Speaker A:And now you have this pressure from the ufc.
Speaker A:You got a toxic relationship you're just getting out of.
Speaker B:You just lost behind closed doors.
Speaker B:Because as soon as the lights and cameras would come on, you know, it was like, okay, you got a mask, real good.
Speaker B:You never want your opponent to think you're going through all that stuff.
Speaker B:You never want that to be a weakness.
Speaker B:I mean, the whole concept of fighting is to.
Speaker B:To.
Speaker B:To show up and be strong and conquer.
Speaker B:So you never want anybody to know that there's anything that wasn't anything that but perfect.
Speaker B:So I was very accustomed to saying all the things and even trying to convince myself of the things, you know?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:It's okay.
Speaker B:So after that fight, yeah, so I retired that night.
Speaker A:Did you know, going into it, or was that a knee jerk reaction?
Speaker B:No, I thought I was gonna win, and I thought I would be fine and, you know, that I would be okay, like, if I got another win.
Speaker B:I thought I was just feeling all these ways because I was.
Speaker B:I hadn't won, you know, I lost my belt.
Speaker B:Like, oh, yeah, that's normal.
Speaker B:You can be depressed when you lose your belt.
Speaker B:But no, I just had not taken a deep dive.
Speaker B:I was still so good at pressing the beach ball into the water, but I was slowly becoming so fatigued that it just couldn't hold it anymore.
Speaker B:And then I was, you know, as this starts to of sort surface, you just like, oh, you're not ready for it.
Speaker B:You're not ready to unpack all the things.
Speaker A:I had tools.
Speaker B:I had no ability to do that.
Speaker B:I was just so good at stuffing everything in the closet and just locking the door.
Speaker B:And like, we all.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Putting the ear plugs on as, like, skeletons are banging on the door.
Speaker B:And just like, okay, we're good.
Speaker A:Next distraction.
Speaker A:On to the next.
Speaker B:On to the next thing.
Speaker B:Onto the next fight, onto the next challenge, onto the next adversity, Onto the next this.
Speaker B:Like, just keep yourself busy.
Speaker B:Just keep going, going, going.
Speaker B:But then I just hit a wall, and I just couldn't go anymore.
Speaker B:But I was still trying to do the things that worked before.
Speaker B:But it was like, what?
Speaker B:It just wasn't working anymore.
Speaker B:And so I told Robert because he was in the.
Speaker B:In in the corner with me.
Speaker B:And my ex was there, and we were not together at the time, but he still made it into my training camp.
Speaker B:Somehow it convinced me that I had never not had him there.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, and that was a nightmare.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:I do remember not specific moments, but I remember the feeling because he was there in the whole time.
Speaker B:He was just trying to get back together with me, trying to convince me of, like, getting back together.
Speaker A:Change.
Speaker B:I'll change.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, I won't do it again.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was all the things.
Speaker B:Like, I, I, I don't remember the words.
Speaker B:I don't remember the specifics, but I know that there was this looming pressure, and I was exhausted because I had made him promise, like, that would not be.
Speaker B:That would not be, you know, we can't do that.
Speaker B:But it didn't matter.
Speaker B:And then, so I, I told Robert after the, you know, after the third round, I was like, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm retiring.
Speaker B:I was like, that's it.
Speaker B:And Robert was kind of like, you know, deeper.
Speaker B:I was like, okay.
Speaker B:You know, like, I knew he knew that I was making an emotional decision, but he didn't try to talk me out of it.
Speaker B:But my ex at the time was like, no.
Speaker B:Like, he did not want me to retire, didn't want me to retire.
Speaker B:He was like, no.
Speaker A:So do you feel he deserves.
Speaker A:Did the opposite of what he wanted you to do, just out of spite or what?
Speaker B:No, I think it was the only way that he knew he stayed hooked.
Speaker B:He stayed hooked into me because he was able to still use the, that, that to stay in.
Speaker B:And if I, that was the last string, if I cut it, there was no reason for me to have him in my life anymore.
Speaker A:How much pressure do you feel he had on that, on you retiring?
Speaker A:How much of that decision took up was made by him?
Speaker B:I don't think I ever would have retired at that time in my life had it not been for everything I was going through in my personal life.
Speaker A:See, and you went against your rule and not let your kids quit after a loss.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I learned some lessons.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Listen, kids, this is why we have this.
Speaker A:Let me tell you this story.
Speaker A:Yeah, because you quit on a low.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's true.
Speaker B:But I quit because I didn't know how to separate him from fighting 100%.
Speaker B:So, like, I felt like if, if I needed to fully remove myself from him, I had to remove myself from the sport.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And I also hated the way that I felt like I was on autopilot.
Speaker B:I was not in that Fight.
Speaker B:It was like that.
Speaker B:I never want to fight like that again.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:I didn't know how to, you know how to remove, so.
Speaker B:So I retired and I went to the hospital because they made me get checked out, which I tried to avoid.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm fine.
Speaker B:I don't have to go to the hospital.
Speaker B:I actually, like, left.
Speaker B:I ran away from, like, all the, like, the people that, like, security and, like, everybody who was supposed to make you go to the hospital or whatever.
Speaker B:And I was like, Dana's, like, blowing up my phone, and I was, like, hiding out, and I didn't want to go because I knew I was fine.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I need to.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker B:I'm not okay here.
Speaker B:But, like, physically, I'm feeling fine.
Speaker B:Like, I fought Amanda.
Speaker B:You didn't make me go to the hospital.
Speaker B:I was up after I fought Amanda.
Speaker B:I was like, so why you make me go to the hospital off this one?
Speaker B:Like, nothing even happened.
Speaker B:I didn't even really get hit in that fight.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I need to go and be, you know, by myself.
Speaker B:But, like, Dana was like, don't make me leave this venue and, like, come and find you personally.
Speaker B:Like, just go to the hospital.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:So I went, and then I hung out.
Speaker B:You know, I did the afterparty thing with my friends, but I don't.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:There's one picture from that night.
Speaker B:You know, I've got a little bit of, like, maybe a little bit of, you know, bruising under an eye.
Speaker B:And I'm still got my hair somewhat in braids.
Speaker B:And there's my friend.
Speaker B:I remember none of my friends being there.
Speaker B:I remember any of them, but she's taking a selfie in the bar with her boyfriend, and they're smiling, and we're in the background, and my ex is looking at me, and he's got his finger in my face, and he's like.
Speaker B:You know, he's just, like, really, like.
Speaker B:Just, like.
Speaker B:And I'm just, like, spacing off and with, like, this, like, broken kind of, like, numb.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, kind of like a help me.
Speaker B:A little bit of, like a help me.
Speaker B:But everyone was so used to this dynamic in our relationship.
Speaker B:Relationship that I don't.
Speaker B:I know that my friends didn't know.
Speaker B:They didn't know as bad as it was, but they were used to Brian being himself.
Speaker A:If it's that bad in public, it's 10 times worse behind closed doors.
Speaker B:And that moment is a stark reminder of when I saw that photo.
Speaker B:I was like, that Is that was.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:That was the dynamic, that was the relationship relationship.
Speaker B:That was the.
Speaker B:The complete disregard for me as a person, how I was feeling, how broken I was.
Speaker B:It was just that he needed to get control of me again.
Speaker B:I needed to listen to him, I needed to be with him.
Speaker B:No regard for anything else.
Speaker B:But you know what he wanted out of those.
Speaker B:Out of me and out of that moment.
Speaker B:And so, I mean, I did put my foot down with, like, the retirement and announcing it because he was like, no.
Speaker B:Like, don't retire.
Speaker B:Like, please.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:And I was like, no, I am.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I did.
Speaker B:And then, yeah, then after that, I. I just.
Speaker B:I didn't know what to do, honestly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's life like now that you just spent your last young adulthood to present time training to be a world athlete, to perform on the world stage of mma athlete, of all things.
Speaker A:Then it's all gone.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, how are you?
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Did you hit rock bottom yet or are you still spiraling?
Speaker A:I mean, did this start to help?
Speaker A:I mean, was retiring the right decision for you?
Speaker B:There were a few times between, like, losing my title and fighting Raquel, and even that time of, like, right around losing, where in the dark, quiet moments, I would ask myself if my life was still worth living.
Speaker B:And I thought about the ways that I could take myself out of this world, because I didn't know if I had any value outside of that.
Speaker B:And I didn't know if.
Speaker B:If, like, if I had any value.
Speaker B:I felt.
Speaker B:I felt useless.
Speaker B:I felt like my worth and existence was pointless.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:So I thought about it.
Speaker B:I really contemplated, and I can say that I think that is the moment that God used, like a little pinhole of light and to just send me a little message.
Speaker B:And I think the answer for me, when I would ask myself that, you know, should I just end it?
Speaker B:Like, no one could stop me.
Speaker B:I'm, like, by myself.
Speaker B:Like, I could just stop.
Speaker B:I could just end it.
Speaker B:And I would ask myself if I should and what is my life worth living?
Speaker B:And I guess I always came to the conclusion that in that moment that I would.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:I would try, I would continue to try.
Speaker B:And that I did.
Speaker B:It really wasn't that I didn't want to live.
Speaker B:I mean, ultimately in my heart, I knew that it wasn't that I wanted to live live.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:I didn't want to live like that.
Speaker A:And you've been so trapped in that world, that's.
Speaker A:That's your only option at this point?
Speaker B:Yeah, I just did no other Tools.
Speaker B:I had not done any work on myself.
Speaker B:I had forgotten about myself since I was, you know, 21.
Speaker B:I had basically done zero.
Speaker B:I had done everything to ignore everything possible, to ignore the way that I was feeling, everything that I could, to, like, not unpack any of it.
Speaker B:But then it just got too heavy.
Speaker A:Always does.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it kind of came crump, you know, crashing down on me.
Speaker B:But I think.
Speaker B:But like between God and between knowing again that I can get through hard things, like being able to fall back on that, that was the.
Speaker B:Those are some of the hardest, deepest, most vulnerable, private moments of my life.
Speaker B:You know, to think that I questioned that and to think of all the blessings that I have now, it's like, is.
Speaker B:It hurts my heart to think that I have to think about other people that go through that moment and sometimes don't make it out of it.
Speaker A:That's why it's such a.
Speaker A:You don't ever end the pain, you just pass it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then to think at this low moment in your life that you were contemplating taking your own life and to.
Speaker A:To look who you are as a mother now, how you're helping all these children and you have this incredible man that has stepped up and provided everything that you needed.
Speaker A:All those years, all could have just been gone in the blink of an eye.
Speaker A:Because we get so lost and we get trapped in these dark.
Speaker A:Such a dark place.
Speaker A:We think that's it.
Speaker A:And all when reality, there's.
Speaker B:There's so much more.
Speaker B:More.
Speaker B:It really is just like any message, you know, to anybody who thinks about that is just like there is.
Speaker B:It's so hard in the moment, but you gotta have faith.
Speaker B:You gotta know that you can get through it.
Speaker B:And you gotta know that there is more on the other side.
Speaker B:And that whatever you're going through and whatever you haven't been able to move through, you've gotta keep searching for the way to get through it.
Speaker B:Because there is a way.
Speaker B:You just haven't found it.
Speaker B:You yet.
Speaker B:And I hadn't found it.
Speaker B:And for years I tried not to find it because I thought I could just be strong and be tough and get through it.
Speaker B:I could just keep masking and I could just keep putting, stuffing and tucking it down deep and just not dealing with it.
Speaker B:And it was working.
Speaker A:This is such a.
Speaker A:Interesting conversation to me because it's.
Speaker A:I'm usually having these types of conversation with.
Speaker A:With men that come from operator backgrounds, you know, like the whole law enforcement, military side of things.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's fascinating hearing you Almost verbatim, say what these men, they just lost and feel.
Speaker A:There's no getting it back.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:But then to look at you, at this top performing athlete that thousands of young women have started the sport because of watching you and being this huge fan and this beacon of light to the MMA and the women sports, and this whole entire time you're just grasping to anything that can just pull you out of this.
Speaker A:And it's, this is why it's so important for us to be able to talk and have somebody to be able to lean on during those times.
Speaker A:Because you take a high performing world athlete like yourself, it happens to everybody.
Speaker A:Nobody's safe from depression.
Speaker A:Nobody is safe from toxic abusive relationships, physically or mentally, verbally, whatever it is.
Speaker A:And so this is why it's incredible to have these conversations and to listen to somebody like you.
Speaker A:You look at you and I'd look at you at a million times.
Speaker A:Then when you reached out and I was like, holy Misha Tay reached out my eyes like, oh my God, I've had to hear about her your whole life.
Speaker A:I'm like, first off, it was in the early days, you were my favorite fighter.
Speaker A:My favorite.
Speaker A:So ask, you could ask her, will you?
Speaker A:Like, oh my God, you had a crash.
Speaker A:I'm like, it wasn't a crazy crush who's a badass fighter.
Speaker A:Like, I just was not a Ronda Rousey fan, you know, like.
Speaker A:And so, but to see that and then to have these young girls that are, you know, on the path of fighting and discovering themselves and being, it's terrifying.
Speaker A:This is, it's that it can happen to anybody.
Speaker A:I mean, we've all, we've all gone, gone through these, these really low times in our lives.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:You just need that mustard grain, that mo.
Speaker A:Mustard seed, this faith the size of a mustard seed.
Speaker A:See, to just to hang on to or that pinhole of light to start pulling you out of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it just.
Speaker A:But until you start eliminating those things like toxic relationships.
Speaker A:And I'm fascinated by that, honest to God.
Speaker A:Because of who you are and how you held yourself and represented yourself on a world stage.
Speaker A:And to know that you had this clingy ass little man that just.
Speaker A:Those dudes.
Speaker A:I know a couple of those guys.
Speaker A:And yeah, my Lance, I don't even know how women put up with them, but it's just.
Speaker B:I don't know either.
Speaker A:Narcissist manipulators took a lot of patience, I'm sure.
Speaker B:But I would say the flip side for me was having that Perspective.
Speaker B:And, and then, and then, yeah, like I said, like meeting my husband and having our two beautiful kids and gosh, that's just, that's just been everything for me.
Speaker B:And then so I retired and for four and a half years we had two kids.
Speaker B:And then I decided I wanted to come back, actually.
Speaker B:I was like nine months pregnant with my son.
Speaker B:Eight or nine months.
Speaker B:And I was like, I want to fight again.
Speaker A:Just one last time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just one taste in one last time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I didn't know I wanted to come back.
Speaker B:I didn't want to.
Speaker B:Just one, one last time.
Speaker B:I wanted to try to make a title run.
Speaker B:I wanted to see what I could do being a more healed version of myself.
Speaker B:And I still had all, a lot left to do.
Speaker B:I wasn't totally healed, if I'm going to be honest, because I hadn't really unpacked or moved through a lot of the things that were kind of like my deep seated issues.
Speaker B:But I was like, happy, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:Like I was, I was in a good place in my life.
Speaker B:So even though I hadn't dealt with this stuff, I didn't have compounding things that were like dragging me down.
Speaker B:But it wasn't until I had my kids and I just started going down every single rabbit hole.
Speaker B:I wanted to know as much as I could about being the best mom that I could.
Speaker B:So I was trying to be, to educate myself.
Speaker B:So I was reading it, you know, first started with nutrition and all of those things, which I had a pretty good idea of, you know, being an athlete.
Speaker B:But there was so much more to nutrition and food, just food in general than, you know, your standard, what you think is healthy, you know, which is what I thought most of my first chapter of my career.
Speaker B:Career is like, oh, you know, well, this is healthy.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, now I know that it's sprayed with glyphosate and it's.
Speaker B:These things are not on the label and that the natural flavors could mean anything and you know, just.
Speaker A:So what the hell's red dye 40?
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, that's, that's probably not good.
Speaker B:Like we'll dye our, our cupcakes with like raspberry powder or something, you know.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:But we, you know, so it started with that and then I just really started to go down and I, it just, my, my thinking just became so expansive in like my concepts.
Speaker B:And then I started to, I get into Gabor Mate stuff and I read three of his books and one of them was hold on to Your kids.
Speaker B:That was really powerful.
Speaker A:Oh, don't let go first.
Speaker A:One of the.
Speaker A:Is that what it was?
Speaker B:Well, it's called hold on to your kids, but it's about parental attachment.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:And like how important that was, how important that is for like child's relationship.
Speaker B:And I was like, wow, that's.
Speaker B:That was a really powerful book.
Speaker B:And I also read when the body says no and like all these things where I understand that.
Speaker B:I do believe that, you know, your sickness can come from, especially with autoimmune diseases, can come from not listening to your body.
Speaker B:You basically create war inside your own body.
Speaker B:80% Of.
Speaker B:I learned this from Dr. Gabber, but 80% of all autoimmune diseases exist in women.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And I think statistically that's because we, we oftentimes work against our biology.
Speaker B:It's easier to do as women because when men do what men are driven to do, which is typically like a nice, a good, healthy, testosterone driven man is like, I'm gonna work, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna provide.
Speaker B:And maybe you work too much, maybe you exhaust yourself, maybe you don't address your feelings, but that still goes along with your primary hormone, which is testosterone, which is like a driver.
Speaker B:It's like a trick.
Speaker B:Do things.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Or do.
Speaker B:So there's an emotional aspect to it, but you're not working against your biology in the sense of you're doing, you're working out, you're going to work, you're providing, you're working with your biology.
Speaker B:Now women, on the other hand, we have two primary sex hormones that are constantly shifting.
Speaker B:No day for us is the same.
Speaker B:We have a huge spike in estrogen and then we get a little bit of testosterone and then estrogen drops off and then we get this massive spike in progesterone, which is not really talked about.
Speaker B:We think of estrogen as like the primary hormone for, for women.
Speaker B:But I would argue that progesterone is more impactful.
Speaker B:We get a bigger spike and that's kind of that.
Speaker B:We call it the luteal phase.
Speaker B:I think of it as loot, as in looting.
Speaker B:Like you feel like you're gonna.
Speaker A:The pre period days.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know about that, right?
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:Girl house.
Speaker A:Like I, I.
Speaker B:And if you're a girl, dad, you better listen.
Speaker A:I call it Luthilian.
Speaker A:I'm like.
Speaker A:Because I don't.
Speaker A:They always say.
Speaker A:And so ever whenever I get attacked, I'm like, are we in the lethal stage?
Speaker A:And I always it up.
Speaker A:So I don't know how to say.
Speaker A:And she's like, I'm.
Speaker A:My testosterone is peaking and I'm like, oh my God.
Speaker A:So yeah, I, I'm continue.
Speaker A:I'm with you.
Speaker A:I know all the phases and chapters of.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, like a week before the period.
Speaker B:Like don't try to be doing.
Speaker B:Talk about hard things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:We're peing a week out.
Speaker A:That's how I know.
Speaker A:That's what my wife said.
Speaker A:She's like, I'm a week out.
Speaker A:I'm like wonderful.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:What am I going to do now?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, that's what you should be like, what can I do for you?
Speaker B:Do you want a foot massage?
Speaker B:Like, you know it'll go a long way or just like do you want me to.
Speaker B:I got the kids, like I got dinner tonight.
Speaker B:Like those little tiny things.
Speaker A:Maybe I don't need to push buttons for the next week.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like just don't do stupid shit and then like do a little bit more like nice things and like that goes a long way.
Speaker B:That really can like just make our hormones be like ah, at ease.
Speaker A:So here's the thing.
Speaker A:Maybe you and I, we're gonna have.
Speaker A:I'm gonna have to have you back on now that you're right down the road and we're gonna talk a whole episode on that type of.
Speaker A:Because nobody teaches men no how to prepare for this.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:This is a new, new.
Speaker B:This is a new.
Speaker B:Women are finally being studied.
Speaker B:I just feel like women for a really long time haven't been studied.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker A:I mean it's fascinating of how much we don't know about women and.
Speaker A:Or we do know that just isn't public, public knowledge.
Speaker A:Like why aren't we learning this in schools?
Speaker A:You're gonna spend 12 years with my child and then my daughters come out and don't even know how their bodies work.
Speaker A:My sons don't know how their bodies and changes.
Speaker A:And you take that you have you said your, your daughter's age 8.
Speaker A:That 8 to 12 year old range 9 to 12 is one of the most crucial phases for young girls as far as their develop developmental process.
Speaker A:What they're taking in, who's in their home as far as being a leader, father, mentorship from their dads.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're watching that there.
Speaker A:This is such.
Speaker A:Nobody's ever said that to me in my life.
Speaker A:Nobody's ever sa.
Speaker A:Hey dude, this girl, this phage of your daughter's life is one of the most crucial phases of her life.
Speaker A:She.
Speaker A:Everything that she's developing is she's watching you as the dad.
Speaker A:This is where you set the tones of how she is going to date in the future, what she's going to look for, how she's developing and the processes.
Speaker A:Nobody explains that to us.
Speaker A:Nobody's explaining, hey, when you have all these girls in your house, including the dog, and they're all linked and synced together, these are the phases that are going to be happening.
Speaker A:This is what you could do to prepare for all you're pre menopause.
Speaker A:I'm doing that.
Speaker A:I actually have a.
Speaker A:A community for men.
Speaker A:I'm trying to find a doctor right now because a lot of these guys are my age.
Speaker A:Wives are going into it, in it, starting it.
Speaker A:We don't even know.
Speaker A:I just saw a doctor Talking about how 70% of divorces come from women and the majority of that percentage is during the.
Speaker A:The perimenopause per menopause stage.
Speaker A:And it's like, how terrifying is that?
Speaker A:That these marriages are ending?
Speaker A:Because there's a chemical balance that switches over overnight that you could just wake up one day hating your husband and you don't even know why.
Speaker A:And if the husband doesn't know why, then this animosity starts to build.
Speaker B:But nobody, nobody's talking about it.
Speaker B:And it's so important.
Speaker B:Like this could save marriages and save lives.
Speaker A:And like I know I have a buddy right now that's going through his wife in the stages he's telling me about.
Speaker A:I'm like, dude, like do your research on this.
Speaker A:Because this is a thing like your marriage does not need to end again.
Speaker A:This is a chemical balance that they switch this.
Speaker A:It's not her just hating you.
Speaker A:She can't control this right now.
Speaker A:But if you don't know this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You see your wife hate you now you have this animosity.
Speaker A:She's got animosity towards you.
Speaker A:She doesn't even know she's going into this.
Speaker A:Like this is the stuff where we just don't know and we don't talk about it.
Speaker A:And then as far as men.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, I gotta just be a man that bro.
Speaker A:I'm not going through my whole entire marriage to get to this point where we're pre manipulated.
Speaker A:Pause.
Speaker A:And now our marriage is going to fall apart over a chemical switch in you.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:That like no way have I gone through all these years of healing and fixing my.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And fighting in the trenches to keep this marriage and my mistakes.
Speaker A:To lose it over a chemical switch.
Speaker A:No way.
Speaker A:That that's how.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But nobody, nobody talks about this stuff.
Speaker A:Sorry, I didn't mean to go on a rant.
Speaker B:No, it's.
Speaker B:But I mean what you're saying is really good and I hope that, that people are listening because what you're talking about is so true.
Speaker B:And I think a little bit, it doesn't have to be crazy, but a little bit of understanding and a little bit of support, whether that's with hormones or other things can go so far for a woman.
Speaker B:Because when we feel like we are trapped inside of a body that we don't feel like is ours and that honestly kind of happens every luteal phase or it can some women that don't have as you know, major of symptoms and I'm not here to pathologize the cycle but what I want women to understand, what I want men to understand is that this is more common than we think and we can move through this in a productive way as opposed to not understanding it and making it way more complex, making it work against us and fighting with our significant other.
Speaker B:And you know, if you kind of know like track your cycle and kind of know how you generally change through cycle, you can be ahead of the game and you don't have to like schedule your massage for that week or like, like do something that like takes a little off your plate.
Speaker B:Problems probably fixed.
Speaker B:Which wasn't even really a problem.
Speaker B:It just needed some, some attention to realize like we're not small men.
Speaker B:We don't run on a 24 hour hormone cycle.
Speaker A:That's where guys don't do that.
Speaker A:We have a hard time con with that concept because us as men, 24 hour speed, peak drop, peak drop you.
Speaker B:All, it's a roller coaster ride for us for the entire month.
Speaker A:Look you're.
Speaker A:I mean but the, the, the swing though in women, I mean your whole entire body is flushing itself or building up to a flush.
Speaker A:Then you're dumping this and then you.
Speaker B:Have to deal with the physical part.
Speaker A:Physical part of it which God help you out, this just goes back to the original.
Speaker A:I don't know why would women one why men would ever want to be a woman that y' all got that title like you win right The.
Speaker A:But the fact of like do you guys this, this process for a week you almost die.
Speaker A:The whole house is turned upside down and then you wake up one day and you're perfectly fine again.
Speaker A:You're like holy.
Speaker A:But the fact that that's what women have to live with and then there's.
Speaker B:Pregnancy and all that whole process feel.
Speaker A:Like getting into that birth side of things.
Speaker B:Take what being a woman is Easy.
Speaker A:But it is not.
Speaker A:That's why when we downplay women and these women, like, I could do what men could do, it's like, no, you can't just.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're already, like, here.
Speaker B:You, like, don't.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're so.
Speaker A:You're already on such a pedestal of what your bodies are able to do, what your body's able to adjust to the chemicals that are going on inside of you, how you're the most adaptive creature on the planet are women.
Speaker A:And I'm like, why do we want to fight this and.
Speaker A:And change things?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And here's the beautiful part about men, because you guys can show up consistently every day.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:If you understand the tip of the iceberg, what you're saying, you can show up for her on the times that she needs you.
Speaker B:And that's what's beautiful about having a good man in your life, is that I'm not going to feel like I can do the same exact thing every day.
Speaker B:Day, same workout for me, doesn't work every day, and it might for you.
Speaker B:There may be days that I need a little bit more rest and recovery because every month, my body's preparing for pregnancy whether I get pregnant or not.
Speaker B:That's what the luteal phase is.
Speaker B:It's preparing for pregnancy.
Speaker B:And so it is a huge ask.
Speaker B:It's metabolically expensive.
Speaker B:We burn an average of 172 calories more per day in the second half of our cycle.
Speaker B:So our diets can't be the same.
Speaker B:It's nothing.
Speaker B:Your body wants blood sugar a little bit higher in that cycle, second phase.
Speaker B:So women oftentimes suffer with a lot of guilt because they.
Speaker B:They think, well, you know, my husband can have this diet and it can stay the same.
Speaker B:And like.
Speaker B:And then they think that they should be able to do the same.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:Oh, they're.
Speaker A:We're just.
Speaker B:I just want women to understand that there's a little bit more to it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And men, if.
Speaker B:Because if we don't understand, we can't help the men in our lives understand.
Speaker B:And you guys have the beautiful ability.
Speaker B:Men are so awesome.
Speaker B:Like, men are so cool.
Speaker B:The fact that you guys can show up consistently for us in the ways that we need every single day is like the.
Speaker B:Well, it's like.
Speaker B:But it's like, no, it's perfect because it is the balance that a woman needs when we're going through the roller coaster is to have something that's stable, to hold onto, that can hold the family Together, a lot of stability.
Speaker B:But, like, if we don't understand what's going on in our bodies, we cannot possibly help the men in our lives who want to help us, right?
Speaker B:And so this is like that beautiful synergy that can really come together.
Speaker B:And, like, once we get it, it's really easy.
Speaker B:Like, I'm able to just tell Johnny now, and he knows.
Speaker B:He tracks my sights and cycle.
Speaker B:And it's cute because he, like, talks to his friends about it and he's like, you know, his buddies will come up, man, I'm just going through it with my.
Speaker B:My wife or my girlfriend.
Speaker B:I don't understand why.
Speaker B:You know, last week and it was like, everything was fine.
Speaker B:It's like the same for, you know, so basically same for me.
Speaker B:Like, I'm doing the same thing, but, like, she's freaking out.
Speaker B:Like, what am I doing wrong?
Speaker B:And he's like, well, what?
Speaker B:Where is she at in her cycle?
Speaker B:And they're like, what?
Speaker B:Huh?
Speaker B:I'm like.
Speaker B:He's like, yeah, bro.
Speaker B:Like, do you know where.
Speaker B:Well, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I think she.
Speaker B:Yeah, she actually.
Speaker B:Actually, she.
Speaker B:Things are better today.
Speaker B:She started her period.
Speaker B:I'm like, well, all right, you're good.
Speaker A:You're good.
Speaker B:Yeah, like so.
Speaker B:But it doesn't have to be diabolical like that.
Speaker B:It doesn't have to be so crazy.
Speaker A:That's how it's always been because we.
Speaker B:Don't understand the process.
Speaker B:But if you just have a simple basic understanding, you could change your whole relationship.
Speaker A:And then you're helping women with this.
Speaker B:That's what I want to do because I did it wrong for most of my career and as a professional athlete, this is really detrimental.
Speaker B:To do it wrong like that is.
Speaker B:It sucks.
Speaker B:There's big consequences when you.
Speaker A:You do that 100%.
Speaker A:This in sports in general, for women are.
Speaker A:Are wild due because of how your bodies are structured.
Speaker A:And you could just be peing one day and the next you're not.
Speaker A:But to go back to you even just tracking a cycle, right?
Speaker A:My wife, she is.
Speaker A:I don't think she's ever missed one of any.
Speaker A:Anything in this house.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:She could look on there now.
Speaker A:You can throw it in the AI and be like, predict my next.
Speaker A:When we plan our vacations off of it now because we're like, we're gonna be on the.
Speaker A:Your period in the middle of a cruise.
Speaker B:You know how cool though.
Speaker A:Mistake.
Speaker A:But the fact that we're at that stage now in.
Speaker A:In technology that you can have an app for your boyfriend, husband, whatever, And I know this sounds probably crazy for dudes listening, but holy dude.
Speaker A:When you get that lined out, it just makes it so much easier.
Speaker A:You almost take this weird turmoil that's going to happen in your relationship whenever, maybe once a month, maybe it's a couple much.
Speaker B:You can prevent it.
Speaker A:And you, you now it's like when I now.
Speaker A:When I'm being attacked.
Speaker A:Where are now Just look at them.
Speaker A:Where are we?
Speaker B:What phase are we even taking it personal?
Speaker B:It's so good.
Speaker A:But then on top of it now then you got.
Speaker A:Now when you got freaking teenagers catching up.
Speaker A:A pre teen that's pre hormonal now they're throwing everything off now everyone's late or they're early.
Speaker A:It's just, it's.
Speaker A:It's this endless crazy.
Speaker B:Learn to kind of just like relax a little bit.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because you got to surrender to the process a little bit.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Have you seen the whole thing?
Speaker A:My wife started doing it and eating right before she starts.
Speaker A:There's a certain phase where she'll make sure she eats all the iron and it helps.
Speaker B:Oh good.
Speaker A:She suffers bad.
Speaker A:I don't know if we'll have to show them and see if mom cares.
Speaker A:Probably not, but she's have horrible cramps and just the flow everything.
Speaker A:But she changed a lot up and actually fasting.
Speaker A:She did a couple of fasts and then.
Speaker A:Which was weird as a woman, she's trying to compare with me and then she's weighing and dude her.
Speaker A:She would jump pounds in a day lose.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And I'm like, honey, you are a.
Speaker A:You don't compare to me.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker A:And she's very.
Speaker A:She's on it.
Speaker A:I mean she's good.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:When it comes to the.
Speaker A:All this, she don't miss a beat.
Speaker A:But then I have to remind her every now and then, you know, she just gets caught up in it.
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker B:I think women should weigh themselves if they want to weigh themselves.
Speaker B:You do it once a week and you can put.
Speaker B:Compare week one of your cycle to the next month's week one week two of your cycle to next weeks like two and three.
Speaker A:You're not comparing previous week, you're comparing previous.
Speaker B:You don't even compare the previous day because again, hormonally we have such massive shifts.
Speaker B:And progesterone likes to hold on to water.
Speaker A:You guys can put on £8 in a night just by sleeping.
Speaker B:And it's irrelevant.
Speaker B:That's irrelevant because it's not real.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That is a psychological, you know, Mind battle that you don't need to have because it's.
Speaker B:That says is it's not real weight.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:And that's what, that's what messes with especially a lot of young girls, young athletes.
Speaker A:Yeah, we really didn't get into much, but I was going to ask, like, what.
Speaker A:It plays a mental toll on you trying to cut weight.
Speaker A:You're either, you know, not much for you, but like, look at these girls during cheerleading matches and competitions and these dancers that, hey, honey, you know, you watch these shows and moms are pinching and trying to tell kids they need to tighten it up.
Speaker A:It's like, what are you.
Speaker A:What are you setting for your child at this.
Speaker A:This stage that they're worried about weight in their image and things like that.
Speaker A:Like, how is that creating a healthy atmosphere for this child?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Young girl at this age is going to grow up into something and not have a eating disorder.
Speaker B:Well, that's why.
Speaker B:Because we, we needed to have more of these conversations because there's a lot that can be done.
Speaker B:This doesn't have to be so complicated or so intimidating or so scary.
Speaker B:Scary is like, we can, we can, we can do this.
Speaker B:There's a lot of information that's coming out there and you can learn and you can simplify your life and show up for your wife or your daughter.
Speaker B:And I don't think it has to be so crazy.
Speaker B:It doesn't have to be.
Speaker A:It doesn't anymore.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:When our oldest first started her.
Speaker A:Her period and everything, it was, oh, God.
Speaker B:She started.
Speaker A:But I'm like, who cares?
Speaker A:I'm a girl dad.
Speaker A:We just gotta accept this.
Speaker A:That's why I was like, listen, I don't give a. I'm gonna ask what's talking.
Speaker A:So it was almost me bringing like.
Speaker A:Like, we're not hiding this.
Speaker A:You're gonna have this for the majority of your life now.
Speaker A:So we're in it.
Speaker A:I got a little one that's behind.
Speaker A:So it just as especially a girl dad.
Speaker A:I got so many girl dads that listen and follow.
Speaker A:But it's just one of those things as a dad, we.
Speaker A:You always see the.
Speaker A:Oh, it's that time, man.
Speaker A:They're gonna start soon.
Speaker A:You almost fear it for some reason.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker A:There's this fear implanted in us as dads of girls starting a period.
Speaker A:And you're gonna be stuck in with them.
Speaker A:Did you.
Speaker A:If as soon as you just accepted this is, I have a daughter or I have a wife.
Speaker A:This is part of their life.
Speaker A:So if it's Part of their life.
Speaker A:They live under my roof every single day.
Speaker A:It has to be part of my life where we have this weird disconnect when it comes to these certain things.
Speaker A:And I don't know when she's on her.
Speaker A:That's why now it's like.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's so helpful because instead of, I don't have bad kids.
Speaker A:Like, we don't ever.
Speaker A:We don't.
Speaker A:They're not just.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:There's no back talk.
Speaker A:I don't have to deal with, like, the negative side of, I guess, most teenagers and dealing with it.
Speaker A:But there's times where she has a little attitude.
Speaker A:And I'll be like, I'll look at the wife.
Speaker A:Like, we started.
Speaker A:She's like, yeah, it's coming.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, cool.
Speaker A:No, I know it's not an excuse, but I. I know now.
Speaker A:Like, okay, we're gonna be sure the whole world's gonna be falling for the next couple days and whatever.
Speaker A:Drama.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:But you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, you never know.
Speaker B:It's much easier to move through it.
Speaker A:And once you learn it, you're like, oh, okay, cool.
Speaker A:All right, well, have fun.
Speaker A:I'll be in the garden.
Speaker A:Like, you guys can fight it out in here.
Speaker A:I'll be back with the dog.
Speaker A:Dog.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But it's just.
Speaker B:No, you have to take it personal.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker A:Like, what the.
Speaker A:I do sometimes.
Speaker A:It's crossfire.
Speaker A:You know, I'll be like, what the.
Speaker A:I'm getting attacked from every angle.
Speaker A:And they're like, we're all loosely on stages.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, all right, all right.
Speaker A:I'll be out back.
Speaker A:I'm go sit my bees.
Speaker B:You get it, though.
Speaker B:I mean, you're learning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's every day.
Speaker A:But that's.
Speaker A:It's great that you're.
Speaker A:You're into that, because there's so much information in the world that we just choose to not acknowledge.
Speaker A:Dig.
Speaker A:Or acknowledge that it's even there.
Speaker A:And that goes back to homeschooling your children and being able to have those real world conversations about their bodies.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:How they're going to change, what to look forward to because it's so taboo in school.
Speaker A:Or they play some video for one day and sex ed class and oh, there's your periods.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's how we're preparing children.
Speaker A:But hey, you know.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:They know the Pythagorean theorem.
Speaker A:But the.
Speaker A:This girl coming out of high school can't even tell you one thing about her body.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Make that make sense.
Speaker B:No, it doesn't.
Speaker A:And this is how we end up in these.
Speaker B:Can't make it make sense.
Speaker A:These relationships where boys don't know.
Speaker A:We're not teaching young men.
Speaker A:Yes, there's so much.
Speaker A:There's so many things that we need to be teaching young men to be a man.
Speaker A:But guess what?
Speaker A:Being part of a man is building a family, and that's going to become a woman one day.
Speaker A:So they should have basic knowledge.
Speaker A:Knowledge of, hey, these are how women work.
Speaker A:And we're never gonna figure it out because y' all are batshit crazy for a week or two and do some.
Speaker B:Crazy, but you can learn to navigate it.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You just have to accept it.
Speaker A:Like, that's wild chaos.
Speaker A:It's just having women.
Speaker B:What's funny is, like, you know, men feel so, so sorry for them as, you know, put down.
Speaker B:But, but, but hear me out.
Speaker B:You know, I was like, oh, you know, we have to deal with the crazy.
Speaker B:This now.
Speaker B:It's like, imagine how we feel on the inside.
Speaker B:If that's what you're experiencing on the outside.
Speaker A:That's my wife.
Speaker B:Just imagine what we feel on the inside.
Speaker B:Because it.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:That's not fun.
Speaker B:Nobody likes to feel like that.
Speaker B:Nobody likes to feel like they have very little bandwidth and that they're, you know, they're.
Speaker B:They're like half a step away from either crying or.
Speaker B:Or losing their.
Speaker B:Because they feel maxed out, like they're hormonally just depleted, and it's like.
Speaker A:It's tough and carrying everything else because the man has no idea what's going on.
Speaker A:So a wife or whoever's just.
Speaker B:But when a man does understand it, even though you may not.
Speaker B:You don't understand it from firsthand perspective, but you understand that there is.
Speaker B:This is true, and this is what women go through.
Speaker B:You can show up in your best way, and usually that's really helpful.
Speaker B:And I know it's appreciated.
Speaker B:I appreciate it.
Speaker A:And it's very, very simple gestures.
Speaker A:My wife, she wants to be held.
Speaker A:She wants to be heard.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:But I fought all these years.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then since her testosterone or whatever.
Speaker B:Progesterone.
Speaker A:Progesterone.
Speaker A:I can't even say that word is peaking.
Speaker A:She naturally has that shield up and she's irritable, but I'll just come in and hold her now.
Speaker A:And then it just.
Speaker A:Everything's gone.
Speaker A:Yeah, everything's gone.
Speaker A:But it took me 16 years to figure that out because now if you.
Speaker B:Could pass it along a little earlier, you might save some poor innocent dude a lot of.
Speaker B:Lot of strife.
Speaker A:This is where it goes to knowing love.
Speaker A:Languages, your.
Speaker A:Your love.
Speaker A:You know, gifts of words, of affirmation, physical touch.
Speaker A:You know, all those things.
Speaker A:Knowing what your wife is.
Speaker A:So when she's peeking, you can go and bring her flowers one day.
Speaker A:It's once.
Speaker A:Once a month.
Speaker A:She's.
Speaker A:She's in her.
Speaker A:That phase where all it takes is some flowers.
Speaker A:And then guess what?
Speaker A:Your house is back to not being a hurricane for a week.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:Or those few days in mind.
Speaker A:She just needs that.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But once I learned.
Speaker A:Learned it.
Speaker A:That's when I'm okay.
Speaker A:We're peeking and I just reassure her.
Speaker A:I love you.
Speaker A:Everything's good.
Speaker A:Don't kill me.
Speaker A:And then she calms down and we're good.
Speaker A:We're back on track.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker B:That's the beauty that you guys can bring.
Speaker B:Is that.
Speaker B:That ability to regulate.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Which takes time through the roller coaster of everything.
Speaker B:Like the man can be that rock, that steady point.
Speaker B:It's like, okay, I'm.
Speaker B:I'm gonna be okay.
Speaker B:Like if something stable to hold on to.
Speaker A:Natural roles.
Speaker A:Imagine.
Speaker A:It's so crazy to think when a man.
Speaker A:Man truly steps into the role as a man in his family.
Speaker A:Not just a protector and a provider.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Those are the bare minimums.
Speaker A:Like that is what it takes to barely be a man.
Speaker A:To be able to provide and to protect your family.
Speaker A:And protection isn't just standing up.
Speaker A:And I'm going to be able to fight the world.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's a whole other level there.
Speaker A:But true men is knowing your vulnerability, checking your ego.
Speaker A:Learning your wife and daughter cycles.
Speaker A:Knowing what they're going through.
Speaker A:Like that is.
Speaker A:And then once they know that you as the man of this household are bringing that level of intention.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Intention to this marriage or relationship.
Speaker A:Now you're letting your guard down.
Speaker A:You're not peeking.
Speaker A:Now you feel safe.
Speaker A:You feel content.
Speaker A:You as a woman.
Speaker A:That's what you need.
Speaker A:We could go through this whole, I'm a boss, babe.
Speaker A:I could do what men could do.
Speaker A:At the end of the day, all those women are angry and single.
Speaker A:But then you have this woman that has figured out her man how to master and control this dude by just letting him know the little secrets here and there.
Speaker A:And he thinks he's helping, but in reality, they're just training us to make their life a little bit easier.
Speaker A:And then you almost get this synergy where it's you walk in the home and you that your wife.
Speaker A:There's no greater accomplishment than your wife feeling safe and secure and felt and heard and all the other things.
Speaker A:Validated, validated in your guys's relationship.
Speaker A:And then wife.
Speaker A:Watch how everything just falls into play.
Speaker A:You start getting a lot more action.
Speaker A:You're happier going on.
Speaker A:You're acting like teenagers again.
Speaker A:Like it's, it's so crazy of when you come together and connected on all the levels.
Speaker A:Not just as a provider, protector, this man of the house, but you're connecting with your wife on that intimate level of listening and being able to let her be heard.
Speaker A:Why aren't we teaching that right?
Speaker B:God, bro, a lot of, like a lot of, of stress and anxiety and confusion.
Speaker B:So I'm glad that you're figuring it out.
Speaker B:You got daughters.
Speaker B:So you need to know, you should know even if you just have a wife or mom or sister.
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:There's no CO workers.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not saying you need to track your co workers cycles, but I'm just saying like have a little like room for understanding that women operate differently.
Speaker B:And so when women operate according to like more they try to show up like how Amanda?
Speaker B:Every day.
Speaker B:That's why I think we have so much more automatic immune diseases.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Because we fight our natural rhythm, which there is a rhythm, there is a cycle.
Speaker B:There is literally something that's trackable that's going to be fairly consistent every single month.
Speaker A:Almost down to the day.
Speaker B:Almost down to the day.
Speaker B:Like, and it will vary for a woman.
Speaker B:But if you.
Speaker B:Per woman.
Speaker B:But if you track and you start to understand your cycle, it's information.
Speaker B:That's data.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So but, but when women pretend like that is irrelevant and we want to show up the same way that men show up every single day, we create a war inside of our body where our mind is saying we're going to do this and our body's like, no, but we need this.
Speaker B:And then there's a battle.
Speaker B:And that is when the body doesn't distinguish itself from self.
Speaker B:Two different things are being required of it that are opposites.
Speaker B:And so that's how I see a lot of autoimmune diseases pathologizing.
Speaker B:Because we don't work with our biology.
Speaker B:Like we ignore it.
Speaker B:We try to operate like men in a men's world.
Speaker B:That's what men are for.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like we don't have to do.
Speaker A:Fascinating you saying that coming from one of the most male dominated sports.
Speaker B:Well, I learned the hard way.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:I mean and, and I'm, I'm all for women like doing sports and being strong and like bingo getters, like I'm all for that, that.
Speaker B:But can we just understand that we operate differently and can we give ourselves a little grace and space in the times that we need that we don't have to show up the way that men show up every day?
Speaker B:Because that is just asking a tremendous, that's a lot and huge weight.
Speaker B:And we shouldn't have to because this is not hormonally and biologically how we are set up to operate.
Speaker B:I believe that women go through this, these ups and downs every month.
Speaker B:I think that it happens, has a God given purpose.
Speaker B:I think that this ties us into being nurturing mothers because our children go through this volatilely until their brains develop, you know, still not until they're like in their 20s or their brain's totally done developing.
Speaker B:But like a child doesn't have the frontal lobe developed.
Speaker B:So a young child is going to go from zero, you know, know, to a hundred very quickly.
Speaker B:And we know what that feels like because we experience it every month.
Speaker B:So we can empathize with like what it feels like to have a short bandwidth or what it feels like to be emotional or what it feels like to have change going on or things you understand.
Speaker B:So I feel like there is an evolutionary purpose in that sense that women are like, oh, I know, like that's my baby.
Speaker B:I know what that feels like.
Speaker B:And that's pretty cool, right?
Speaker B:That we nurture our children through it because we can empathize through it because we know, because we're constantly relating to what it feels like to sometimes feel like things are unstable or things are out of control.
Speaker B:And then the man comes in and he's like the rock and the support that can give us the stability.
Speaker B:But he may not be able to quite remember what it was like to be two years old and doing a temper tantrum because you're overtired, but your wife is.
Speaker B:She's gonna know what that feels like because she's just went through that in the luteal phase, you know, where she wanted to throw a temper tantrum because she was tired, you know, like it.
Speaker B:I think that there is like such a beautiful scene synergy to that, but I think there's also purpose in it.
Speaker B:So it's beautiful.
Speaker B:And if I think if we can understand it and work with it, it's honestly a great thing.
Speaker B:That's what women pray to bring every single pay to bring every single human into this world.
Speaker B:And I Think that for that women should be.
Speaker B:This should be talked about and this should be understood because facts.
Speaker B:There's, you know, there's a great, I'm gonna say debt to be paid to women.
Speaker B:But, you know, there should be some gratitude and understanding and grace.
Speaker B:There's a huge debt to be what it takes to bring people into the world.
Speaker B:Like that's cool.
Speaker B:So like let's.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm like one of the not.
Speaker A:I don't want to say male chauvinist.
Speaker A:I was grew up in a very old school home.
Speaker A:White.
Speaker A:My mom was home every day, dinner on the table.
Speaker A:My dad walked in the door.
Speaker A:Very old traditional.
Speaker A:Which that's how I was raised.
Speaker A:So I, I, when I was in my dating, I'm like, okay, these are the roles.
Speaker A:Like my wife, my woman's going to be home, dinner on the table.
Speaker A:Clearly that's not how life worked out.
Speaker A:But I've always been one of those, like, women are in their roles, men are in his roles.
Speaker A:And then I have daughters and now I'm like, my daughters could do everything that men can do to a certain point.
Speaker A:But teaching those roles and knowing the roles and how our bodies.
Speaker A:It's just, it's the most incredible thing when you could learn.
Speaker A:But like it.
Speaker A:You're talking how you know the mom knowing these things and being able to help their children now.
Speaker A:Same with dads.
Speaker A:Like if you're.
Speaker A:That's how we need to be raising our sons.
Speaker A:Hey, this is what's going on in this age at your developing.
Speaker A:These are the things we need to be looking for.
Speaker A:But I feel we now outsource our education to everybody except for the parents.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which leads you teaching your kids nothing about themselves, about how their bodies are going to be changing and growing.
Speaker A:And it's just a very sad thing of how we have eventually now just give our kids to the government and and.
Speaker A:And trust them in.
Speaker B:It's so sad.
Speaker A:And teaching them.
Speaker A:It's terrifying.
Speaker A:And so yeah, it's.
Speaker B:Well, we're.
Speaker B:I'm trying to change that.
Speaker B:I think you are too.
Speaker B:I mean it looks like it.
Speaker B:And meeting your great family today.
Speaker B:Your daughters are brilliant.
Speaker B:Your wife is really cool.
Speaker B:Very funny.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:You got to get her on your show.
Speaker A:You want some views and laughs.
Speaker A:Holy.
Speaker A:Turn her loose.
Speaker A:I might have to just go and supervise because she'll get down some rabbit holes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:I'm here for it.
Speaker B:I walked in and I said saw with the jumping spider.
Speaker B:Little, little cage.
Speaker B:And I was like, cool.
Speaker B:And I Saw Sourdough.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm in.
Speaker B:And then the bees.
Speaker B:You guys have bees?
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, that's it.
Speaker B:You guys are my people.
Speaker A:You haven't seen the garden yet.
Speaker A:Wait till you see the garden.
Speaker A:It's impressive.
Speaker A:So we'll send you home with some stuff, but thank you for this conversation.
Speaker A:I want to have you back on, and I would want to talk all the crazy of you've gone through as far as, like, all the questions and fighting, being in behind the ufc.
Speaker A:I had a million questions for you, but we're about to hit four hours, and we could probably do 10 hours talking to you, but this was an incredible conversation.
Speaker A:I really appreciate you coming on here and sharing your story.
Speaker A:I'm sure a lot of people have not just heard a start to finish of who you are as.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Take this deep.
Speaker B:Of a dive, so thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's probably not a lot of places that I appreciate you trusting us to come on and definitely dive into a little bit of your life.
Speaker A:I mean, I wasn't even sure where this is.
Speaker A:I never know what.
Speaker A:Where any of our episodes are going to go, and so I've.
Speaker A:I've given up on having an agenda.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wild chaos.
Speaker A:Like, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's literally I'll.
Speaker A:I'll have a guy on.
Speaker A:We're going to talk about his life and how he flushed the whole entire thing and ruined it.
Speaker A:And then before you know it, we're talking a whole entire relationship about God and finding faith, and you never know where conversations go here.
Speaker A:But I want to thank you so much for coming on and giving me this opportunity.
Speaker A:And so once you guys are all established and ready to hit the ground running here, Idaho, I want to have you back on, and we're going to talk like, the behind the scenes of the ufc, the crazy, wild questions.
Speaker B:Yeah, maybe I'll be able to talk about this.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:How the school's going by then, too, so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Excited.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:So once.
Speaker A:I guess that's.
Speaker A:Once you got that up and going.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, so real quick, how do.
Speaker A:What do you.
Speaker A:What are you launching real fast, and how are people able to get a hold of you?
Speaker A:Then I got one final question.
Speaker B:So we are launching in September, Apogee Boise.
Speaker B:You go to apogee boise.com if you want to learn more.
Speaker B:And there's, you know, all the.
Speaker B:All the stuff on there, all the information so you can learn about that.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And then you just follow me at Misha Tate on Most places otherwise, social media and website.
Speaker B:And I've got a cool newsletter.
Speaker A:How do we get signed up for that?
Speaker B:Misha tate.com you should be able to sign up for the newsletter.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you sign up there and once every couple weeks, I send something out that kind of helps.
Speaker B:Maybe some of your male followers, your buddy, you might like that.
Speaker B:Because about one, one of every four I really geared towards men understanding what the females.
Speaker B:I mean, it's not that you can't get the information in the other one, but I'm writing it to the men, for the men who have daughters, who have wives, who really are coaches.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like coaches of female athletes.
Speaker B:This is important for them to know.
Speaker B:Really important.
Speaker B:You know, when I train now on the ufc, you know, there's an app that we use that we share with the, the, the.
Speaker B:The trainers and like, they know our cycles.
Speaker B:And I'm like, hey, this is not weird.
Speaker B:Like, this is normal.
Speaker B:Like, everybody woman is going through this.
Speaker B:And so I like to adjust my trainings slightly based on what I feel like is, you know, like, I like my deload week to be in the hardest, the luteal phase where the loot, looting is happening.
Speaker B:Um, I like that to be.
Speaker B:And then we progress.
Speaker B:And like the hardest part of my training, the heaviest lift.
Speaker B:And those things will be more towards the peak of testosterone because that's a really nice hormone to have when you're trying to get stronger.
Speaker B:So I'm like, why not make the, the heaviest lifts then?
Speaker B:You know, so it's just like these small adjustments.
Speaker B:Again, we're not pathologizing the cycle, but it helps to understand.
Speaker A:Makes so much sense.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I know you don't know much about us, but that's one of those things that I live my life by.
Speaker A:Just make it make sense.
Speaker A:If you want me to believe it.
Speaker A:Make it make sense.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And the fact that you're, hey, let's track so we can.
Speaker A:We can now utilize our strengths and weaknesses as a woman when it comes to training building whatever it may be.
Speaker B:We can get stronger from this.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:But in reality, it's like you got to ran.
Speaker A:Hire a coach or know somebody that knows somebody to start teaching these things.
Speaker A:Or you're on YouTube, but now that you're going to be putting these sources and you're putting these letters out, that's an incredible.
Speaker A:Good for you for doing that.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're going to work on developing, you know, programs and things like that that are going to help to understand as well, you know, to really be able to take what I'm saying and use it comprehensively.
Speaker A:Last question.
Speaker A:Question for you.
Speaker A:You've gone through a lot.
Speaker A:For all the young women out there that are getting into discovering themselves and spreading their wings and building their own nest, what would be a message to women that you just want them to know as far as getting into the world of dating, chasing passions, Anything along those lines.
Speaker A:Give any advice for them?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that it is very, very important, important to be in tune with yourself.
Speaker B:And that is a, it's something that's going to take some unpacking and some learning for most of us.
Speaker B:We probably weren't raised with all the tools that we need because that's just a hard thing to do.
Speaker B:But I would say let intuition be your guide.
Speaker B:Ask yourself questions.
Speaker B:Talk.
Speaker B:Like, have a conversation with yourself.
Speaker B:Like, ask yourself, how am I feeling today?
Speaker B:We don't, like, not enough people stop and do that.
Speaker B:Check in with yourself throughout the day.
Speaker B:How, how are we doing?
Speaker B:Where are we at?
Speaker B:And then if you can notice trends in your cycle, you could better prepare for anything.
Speaker B:You know, the curve balls that don't need to be curveballs because you might be able to see them coming straight on if you just have a little bit more awareness.
Speaker B:So I love, you know, the idea of having some, some cyclical concept.
Speaker B:But what I, what I don't like where, you know, cycle based training and you know, cyclical is that sometimes this, the wellness industry has taken this and, and like I said, has pathologized.
Speaker B:Oh, you know, the cycle.
Speaker B:Like it's, it's so, you know, in your luteal phase, just don't even touch a weight.
Speaker B:Like, because you're basically broken.
Speaker B:Like, no, like we are still capable.
Speaker B:Capable.
Speaker B:There's never a time that you don't need to work out.
Speaker B:Like, but listen to your body.
Speaker B:Stop fighting your body.
Speaker B:80% Of autoimmune diseases are in women.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Let's just ask that question.
Speaker B:It's probably because we're not listening to our bodies and our hormones are more fragile when we mess it up.
Speaker B:It's not very easy to fix them.
Speaker A:Very, very hard to get back.
Speaker B:So lead with your intuition.
Speaker B:Ask yourself how you're feeling.
Speaker B:Check in with yourself.
Speaker B:And if things are consistently not right, you may want to consider changing some of your environment or getting some help or working with a cognitive behavioral therapist.
Speaker B:You know, I like that a lot better than talk therapy because I think that they give you real tools as opposed to just talking about everything that's wrong and you Know, I'm with you on that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You start on therapists, I think, oh, yeah, they're just as flawed as we are.
Speaker A:They just learn.
Speaker A:They just go to school, learn how to talk to people.
Speaker A:This is therapy.
Speaker A:I've had.
Speaker A:I've had more men, I've cried on.
Speaker B:This chairs, having conversations.
Speaker A:Is this therapy?
Speaker A:But the.
Speaker A:That fact you lean on somebody, but I'm with you on that.
Speaker A:Like, learn if you're going to talk to somebody and they're going to help you, help them figure out chunks and parts of your life, your health, give.
Speaker B:You tools that you didn't have before so you can try things and figure out what works for you.
Speaker B:So I say intuition based.
Speaker B:Lead with your heart, lead with your intuition.
Speaker B:Listen to yourself, have those conversations, track your cycle and see if you find some, some, you know, reoccurring things that happened at the same times in the month that make sense for you so that you can kind of try to live your best life based off of how you feel.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In your life.
Speaker B:And I think that the people around you in your life that care about you can learn to show up in the ways that help and support, you know, the men in your life, particularly sometimes just don't have a clue.
Speaker B:If you don't have a clue, how could they so help them help you.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Yeah, I appreciate this.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:This was great.
Speaker A:This is kind of a can't wait.
Speaker B:For the sake of sourdough.
Speaker A:This is like a surreal thing too, to like the fact that my, you know, when this all came about, you know, and we're like, dude, we should tell you.
Speaker A:I'm like, holy.
Speaker A:My wife's like, you know, because she's.
Speaker B:Like, oh, yeah, I've heard so much,.
Speaker A:But this was a long time ago.
Speaker A:But I go, it's not even the fact that I thought you were like the baddest chick on the planet, that phase of your life, but I'm like, the fact that we have the ability that you want to come and just share a story on this podcast that I do with my kid, you know, that's where I'm like, that's.
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah, coming to our house.
Speaker A:I'm like, this is dope.
Speaker A:Like, because I don't, I don't reach out to celebrities and these big name people.
Speaker A:I just give.
Speaker A:I just talk to the average person.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:But I love that.
Speaker B:Like, I love your podcast.
Speaker B:And I was like, that's so cool.
Speaker B:Because there's the stories that haven't been told it's really cool.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:That's all we want.
Speaker B:The fact that it came across hers is just crazy because that just means it's getting out there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I love that.
Speaker A:Well.
