Dr. Matthew Patrick, physicist, data scientist, and Helium ecosystem contributor, talks about why Meshtastic and LoRaWAN are often misunderstood as competing technologies—and why that framing misses the point. Drawing from his work in space physics, high-altitude ballooning, and large-scale LoRaWAN deployments, Matthew explains how similar radio hardware can support very different network architectures and business outcomes.

The conversation starts with a clear, practical comparison between Meshtastic and LoRaWAN, focusing on what each system was designed to do. Meshtastic’s mesh-based approach excels at small, infrastructure-free group communication, while LoRaWAN’s gateway model is built for industrial-scale deployments involving hundreds or thousands of low-power devices. Matthew breaks down the tradeoffs around battery life, network capacity, reliability, and operational complexity, grounding the discussion in real deployment scenarios rather than theory.

From there, the discussion moves into where these technologies can overlap in productive ways. Matthew outlines how Meshtastic can act as an intermediary layer in hard-to-reach environments, relaying sensor data to LoRaWAN gateways when traditional coverage isn’t available. He also explores longer-term opportunities, including LoRa-based satellite and stratospheric platforms, and how distributed ground networks could support future space-adjacent IoT use cases.

Throughout the episode, Matthew brings a clear systems-level perspective, emphasizing that successful IoT deployments depend on matching the right technology to the problem being solved. The result is a grounded, experience-driven look at how LoRa-based technologies fit into real-world business, research, and infrastructure decisions.

Links

Dr Patrick on LinkedIn

Dr. Patrick's Github

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• Support The Show - If you'd like to support the MetSci Show financially, here's where you can donate on a one-time or an ongoing basis. Thank you!
• MetSci Show - If you'd like to use our IoT or AI Data Value calculators, or you'd like to contact me, the MetSci Show site is the best way to do it.
• MeteoScientific Console - Use LoRaWAN - The MeteoScientific Console allows you to use LoRaWAN today. As long as you have Helium coverage (and you probably do, about 90% of populated areas in the world have a gateway within 2 miles), you can onboard a sensor. You can always check coverage at https://explorer.helium.com and switch to the "IoT" tab in the top right.

Today's guest on

2

MeteoScientific's The Business of LoRaWAN

is Doctor Matthew Patrick,

3

a physicist, data scientist and long time

contributor to the Helium ecosystem,

4

whose work spans LoRaWAN, Meshtastic

and some truly unconventional deployments,

5

including high altitude balloons

and experimental satellite concepts.

6

In this conversation,

7

we dig into a question that comes up more

and more in the community.

8

If Meshtastic exists,

why do we still need LoRaWAN?

9

Matthew breaks down the fundamental

architectural differences between the two,

10

where each one excels

and why they're often misunderstood

11

as competing technologies

rather than complementary tools.

12

We also explore real world

trade offs around scale, battery

13

life, infrastructure,

and then get into some forward

14

looking ideas like bridging Meshtastic

and LoRaWAN for remote sensor deployments,

15

and even using Lora based networks

in stratospheric and orbital projects.

16

This episode is sponsored

by the Helium Foundation

17

and is dedicated

to spreading knowledge about LoRaWAN.

18

You can use the publicly available

global LoRaWAN and discussed

19

in this episode through the Medio

Scientific Console to try it yourself.

20

Visit metsci.show/console.

21

Now let's dig into the conversation

with Doctor Matthew Patrick.

22

Doctor Matthew

Patrick, welcome to the show, dawg.

23

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

24

I'm psyched to talk to you.

25

Every time I talk to you,

I learn something and be

26

I am reminded of how

well someone can teach something.

27

So I'm super excited for you

to come on here today

28

and teach us a little bit about this

Meshtastic vs LoRaWAN business.

29

Thank you for making the time.

30

Yeah. Of course.

31

Thanks for having me.

32

So, basically what I wanted to talk about

today was this comes off of a talk

33

that I gave at the helium IoT

working group a couple of weeks back,

34

and it stemmed

out of a couple of conversations

35

which are happened in community

more and more.

36

And basically

the frame of the conversation

37

is something along the lines of,

okay, we have this new project.

38

It's an open source project.

39

It's called Meshtastic.

40

Why do we care about LoRaWAN anymore?

41

And I think for a lot of reasons, the

I see why people start thinking this way.

42

And I think that fundamentally

it's a little bit misguided.

43

And so I wanted to take this opportunity

to go through a couple of,

44

couple of examples of why

different Lora based technologies,

45

they can solve similar problems

to what LoRaWAN solves,

46

but it's not always exactly

the same thing.

47

And in this case in particular,

there are drastically different use cases

48

that they cover.

49

There's also an opportunity for

some overlap here and some cool projects,

50

but at the end of the day,

it's important to know, you know,

51

if if all you have is a hammer, right?

52

Everything looks like a nail.

53

So it's important to know right tool

for the right job

54

for anyone in the audience

who's not familiar.

55

If you've been following Nick's podcast,

you know all about LoRaWAN,

56

all about the industrial applications

that at the end of the day,

57

it's the most basic level.

58

What LoRaWAN is really about

is enabling order of magnitude

59

thousands of sensors to communicate

using very low power over

60

very long distances and send infrequent

small amounts of data to the internet.

61

So we're talking things like temperature

sensors,

62

trackers, impact sensors

that kind of thing.

63

The design of LoRaWAN has always been

from the beginning to enable

64

these industrial use cases,

and it predates Meshtastic by quite a bit.

65

So what Meshtastic is, on the other hand,

is it's relatively new.

66

So we're talking maybe five years ago

or so to the first real beta

67

starting to come out personal messaging.

68

It's not really a service.

69

It's an open source firmware and software

and some devices

70

that you can use to shoot text messages

back and forth over the same

71

physical radio

that the LoRaWAN sensor series.

72

And I think this is fundamentally

where a lot of the confusion can come in,

73

because the devices that you use

when you're learning about

74

LoRaWAN are oftentimes either

similar to or literally identical

75

to some of the supported devices

that are used by the Meshtastic project.

76

And what Meshtastic original mission

was, was to go and say,

77

okay, we've got maybe five guys, ten guys

who are going skiing

78

or hiking or paragliding

or anything like that,

79

and we want to make it so that they don't

have to carry around walkie talkies.

80

We want to be able to make it

so they can send short text messages,

81

including tactical information

82

like positions in particular,

but also maybe sensor data

83

and text back and forth

without any underlying infrastructure.

84

And in order to accomplish this,

they use a mesh

85

algorithm,

basically where every node on the network.

86

So every device that there's five guys

or has

87

it could receive

and it can transmit packets.

88

And if you've got a situation

where you've got to see

89

two people who want to communicate,

90

but they don't have a line of sight

to each other,

91

maybe there's a hill in between

or something.

92

What mesh tactic does is

it bounces the signal off any available

93

intermediary node to get from A to B.

94

Well, it does this really well.

95

This is the critical difference

between Meshtastic and LoRaWAN.

96

In LoRaWAN we have these things called

gateways, which are these big radios.

97

They're connected directly to the internet

most of the time anyway, and they suck

98

in all the packets that they can receive

concurrently across multiple channels.

99

There is no relaying packets.

100

The intention is that you

send one from your sensor.

101

It goes straight to the internet.

102

Dunn sensor goes back to sleep.

103

This is done for two reasons.

104

The first is to conserve battery life.

105

You can't have in LoRaWAN

106

anyway, a whole bunch of sensors

that are just on all the time.

107

The point is, normally that you want

to put a battery in the thing,

108

and then that's the battery

for the lifetime of the device.

109

Or at the very least it's changed really.

110

The second part is that in LoRaWAN

the focus is really on

111

industrial applications.

112

So we're talking like a warehouse

that needs to track a thousand assets,

113

that kind of thing.

114

Every gateway needs to be able to service

just an absolute ton of devices.

115

And in order to do this,

you don't have this kind of inter packet

116

relay

going on that you have in Meshtastic.

117

The real limitation of a mesh system

118

is that at the end of the day,

most of the devices have to be on most

119

of the time because they need to listen

to relay the packets.

120

This is absolutely perfect.

121

If you've got,

122

you know, a scenario like I outlined,

where you've got people who are hiking

123

and they're just going to have

something in their pocket

124

which is going to be on all day,

and then they'll recharge it

125

or change the batteries at night.

No problem.

126

When we've got devices

that need to be in the field

127

for a super long amount of time,

like years, even, you can't

128

you can't do this in the increasing range

that you get

129

is outweighed by the decrease

in battery life.

130

So there's kind of a kind of a trade off

here.

131

There's one other really critical,

important difference, which is, you know,

132

I mentioned that LoRaWAN serves

thousands of devices concurrently.

133

Meshtastic.

134

The big mesh infrastructure projects

that people have been setting up

135

in their cities,

which are super cool, by the way,

136

anyone who's interested

absolutely encourage you to take a look

137

at some of the various open source,

Meshtastic maps

138

that people have been putting up.

139

The Bay area has an amazing

like multiple hundred node system,

140

and they're using different

channels. It's super cool stuff,

141

but the reason

that they're using different channels

142

is because after you hit about 100 devices

or 200 devices or so,

143

the mesh network starts to fall over

because people are just talking over

144

each other all the time.

145

You can picture being in a crowded room

if you've got ten people in there.

146

It's not so bad to pick out

different parts of the conversation

147

if people are speaking up all the time.

148

But if you go into a place

149

if you don't have some way

150

to coordinate that traffic, it

just none of it gets to it.

151

So the magic number for Meshtastic

is around 100 for LoRaWAN,

152

because of the fundamentally different

153

Those are the two main differences

between the technologies that I wanted to.

154

I wanted to kind of bring forward.

155

That being said, there are some overlaps.

156

There are some there's some definite

overlaps between the two projects.

157

One of them is that

the hardware is nearly identical.

158

A gateway is, notwithstanding,

a piece of node hardware.

159

If you're familiar with lower Ram

and you want to explore Meshtastic,

160

probably 90% of the time

you're going to be able just to drop

161

the Meshtastic firmware

straight onto that thing and have it work.

162

Check out Meshtastic.org

for a list of the supported targets.

163

The radio is the same,

so it's really just a software difference.

164

The other thing that I was hoping we could

maybe talk a bit about was how you build

165

effective bridges between, you know,

these two communities there they have

166

they have pretty different interests,

but they use the same hardware.

167

And I've found personally

that they attract, similar like minded

168

crowd of people. Right.

169

You're you're radio enthusiasts.

170

You're less on the industrial side

for Meshtastic, of course,

171

but the people who are interested in

one tend to be interested in the other.

172

And I'd be super, super interested

in your perspective on how you could maybe

173

like, from a community perspective,

how we could bring more of these guys

174

together instead of this perception

that we're fighting against each other?

175

Yeah, I do see at first glance that

176

there's like, oh, Meshtastic is better

than LoRaWAN or LoRaWAN is better.

177

Like, it's just a maybe it's

what is really needed

178

is more conversations like this.

179

We say there's sources for courses.

180

There's there's tools for jobs.

181

And in some places

182

if you don't have LoRaWAN coverage

and you're going backcountry skiing

183

and you want to talk to your five buddies,

don't bother with the LoRaWAN.

184

You know, if you're on the factory floor,

185

we don't don't really need Meshtastic

there.

186

Can you walk me through

a couple of these bridge ideas

187

that you've

you've talked about in the past?

188

Yeah. Sure thing. I'd be happy to.

189

So one of them, and I think this is

maybe the most low hanging fruit

190

is remote

sensor deployments like weather stations.

191

So one of the really cool

applications of LoRaWAN

192

that that I'm most familiar with is

you've got maybe an agricultural

193

operation, a farm or something,

or you've got a bunch of sensors.

194

To some description,

weather is a great example.

195

You put them in a super, super

remote location where there is no internet

196

nearby.

197

Most of the time this is fine

if you use a network like helium,

198

which has incredible or run coverage, odds

are you're going to hit a gateway.

199

But if you're in a situation

where you can't, then things

200

get exponentially more complicated

really quick.

201

You've gotta find a way to get that

traffic off of RF and to the internet.

202

The Meshtastic

can be really useful for this

203

because the nodes are so low power,

generally speaking,

204

that you can put a really cheap node

with a really small solar panel

205

in the vicinity of your sensor, like say,

on the top of the nearby mountain

206

or a nearby hill or a building

and relay that traffic using Meshtastic.

207

And one of the things

I think could be really useful

208

is if we could have a bridge that could

receive Meshtastic packets and say, hey,

209

I got all these mesh packets. Here

they are from your sensors.

210

Can I send that off? Over.

211

Go learn Run Gateway

to get it to the internet.

212

Meshtastic is out of the box.

213

Not 100% optimized

for this kind of internet based traffic.

214

They use an mQTT server,

but the traffic is

215

largely unencrypted

or essentially unencrypted.

216

Since everybody shares

217

the same key on the public channel,

it ultimately can go off to the internet.

218

But a lot of the nodes are configured

themselves to either not do that

219

or to do it.

220

Uplink only, which is a real difference

between the LoRaWAN infrastructure

221

that, well, doesn't have an SLA

or anything

222

is designed to do bidirectional traffic

to the internet.

223

So I think it could be really interesting

if we could have a way

224

to build LoRaWAN gateways

that could receive Meshtastic packets,

225

so that if you're in

one of these situations

226

where you don't

have a perfect line of sight to a sensor,

227

you can maybe use this intermediary hop

in order to get where you need to go.

228

That's one of them.

229

The second one.

230

And this this touches

a little bit on a talk that I gave to,

231

the IoT working group a few weeks back. Is

232

LoRaWAN

233

networks

are growing, and they have this incredible

234

global reach,

and they're all in the unlicensed stance.

235

And there's this incredible opportunity

now brought on by companies like Space-x

236

to do satellite projects,

which are inherently risky and expensive.

237

But the price has been coming down

so much over the last few years.

238

It's it's not even funny.

239

There's a whole community of people who do

Lora based satellites using basically

240

the ham radio frequencies on Lora point

to point project name is Tiny Gascon.

241

It's for tiny ground station.

242

It's really cool.

243

And what what this community has done is

they've set up a bunch of receivers

244

using Lora hardware.

Same kind of hardware.

245

So you use on Meshtastic

or for a LoRaWAN node.

246

But all that they do

is they receive packets

247

from these low-Earth orbit satellites

people have sent out,

248

and then they relay them to the internet.

249

You know what

I think would be really cool?

250

And what could be an interesting

opportunity to bridge these two worlds

251

is if you had a satellite project that

implemented some version of Meshtastic,

252

right now, aside from 1 or 2 long shore

commercial operations, Lacuna Space,

253

this one of them, swarm, was before

they bought out by space.

254

I don't know if it's still operating.

255

The satellite constellations they use

Lora are either amateur satellites,

256

the beacon only,

or they're these commercial things

257

that haven't haven't

fully been implemented yet.

258

I think it'd be really cool

if you could build a Meshtastic satellite

259

that could relay traffic, but use LoRaWAN

for the distributed ground station

260

for the downlink.

261

And I'm working in the background

on maybe getting a project

262

like that off the ground.

263

I'm really excited about it.

264

For listeners,

you might also be excited about that.

265

Is there a good way for them

to reach out and contact you?

266

Absolutely.

267

So you can find me on the Helium Twitter.

268

I'm a member of the IoT working group.

269

Usually I'm hanging out on discord.

270

You can always find me on

Nick Hawks Gristle Kings discord.

271

My name is Star Watcher.

272

Goes way back to my helium days.

273

You can you can ping me over there.

274

And if you see one of my testing

high altitude balloon projects

275

beckoning weird things over Meshtastic

in different countries, then that's.

276

That's probably me too.

277

Yeah,

I probably should have started this off,

278

but I always get so excited

just to basically listen to your dog,

279

because tell me a little bit

about the helium or the LoRaWAN

280

and Meshtastic work that you've done.

281

So basically,

my background way back in the day was I

282

did a lot of space physics research

using high altitude balloons.

283

So stratospheric balloons that you would

you would send up,

284

and then we would take X-ray pictures

of the northern lights.

285

And my research was on mapping out

basically the number of the number of what

286

and the number of particles that come in

and swirl around, and the northern

287

lights over Canada, where I live,

the way I got involved in LoRaWAN

288

was that we needed a downlink system

for all of these balloons.

289

It's incredibly difficult.

290

These things can fly for days.

291

They can cover hundreds of kilometers.

It's a challenge.

292

And while we were doing way back was

we were paying hundreds of dollars

293

every single flight, use an iridium

satellite modem in order to basically make

294

a phone call like an analog phone

call, and send data over it, which works.

295

It functioned,

but more than half the power budget for

296

this thing was taken up by that iridium

iridium satellite modem.

297

It drew, you know, at around five volts,

easily a couple of amps, steady state.

298

And so the the whole payload

was just lined with batteries, which,

299

which were just to power this modem.

300

And then I found

301

and this was maybe around 2020

when things really started taking off.

302

I found this project called helium,

which is Lower Man.

303

And I hadn't heard of that before,

and I bought this board off.

304

It was

I think it was a go team or something.

305

One of the Esp32 Lora boards

everyone uses. Yep.

306

And I was sending packets immediately

over like tens of kilometers

307

within the city because the infrastructure

had been set up for it

308

and it it cost pennies.

309

So we switched over all of our flights

to these things, saved a ton of mass,

310

really simplified the whole operation,

and saved a ton of cost as well.

311

Just by using these Lora radios

and these distributed ground stations.

312

So that's that's

kind of how it all got started for me.

313

And then I took some of that experience

and spent some years working for helium.

314

Now Nova Labs, helping

them build out their their infrastructure

315

and do do the data science associated

with that.

316

The Meshtastic stuff

came a little bit later.

317

I was sitting having lunch

with an engineering friend of mine

318

one day, and we we basically we said,

is there any reason that we couldn't have

319

the equivalent of a small satellite either

running LoRaWAN or running Meshtastic,

320

that sits at a constant altitude

and just goes from that and around

321

and around the world,

322

there are ways

that you can set these balloons up

323

so that you don't you can't generally

get them back, but you can park them

324

at 15 or so kilometers,

and they sit in the jet stream.

325

And it turns out that this totally works.

326

So I threw together a tiny Meshtastic node

that was solar powered and put it on.

327

It's called a super pressure balloon.

328

It's basically a take on a weather balloon

that it stops

329

rising past a certain point,

330

so it doesn't just go up, burst,

and then land,

331

and you pick the thing up off the ground,

it gets stuck.

332

It's a little tricky to pull off a lot of

a lot of variables to get exactly right.

333

But when you do it,

334

I think the record right now is

the guy's got one

335

that's been going around the world

for over a year now.

336

It's on its like 30th lap,

which is which is crazy.

337

That's my Meshtastic one.

338

We had launched it and it was

it was so disappointing.

339

I was absolutely crushed by this

because this thing was so hard to build.

340

Flight looked great.

341

And then the antenna broke off

right after it got off the ground.

342

And you can't get it back.

You can't really get it back.

343

You get one one chance at this.

344

So I, I tracked it for maybe 20,

30km or so

345

and then then didn't receive the signal.

346

I thought, well, that's, that's a wrap.

347

And what am I going to do now? Right.

348

But two weeks later,

I get a random message

349

from somebody on Reddit

and they said, I don't understand this.

350

There's this balloon with this weird name,

351

and I think I called it

Kirby three Kirby the Pokemon.

352

It just seemed to set right.

353

Okay, needed a call sign for this thing.

354

It was over the UK

and they had just received

355

this random packet in the middle of the UK

on the right frequency,

356

and it was relaying packets

from all over the place there.

357

It was crazy because I sent this thread

and I said, oh my God,

358

this is something that I set off weeks ago

and you're telling me it

359

actually survived it actually worked

and it did even worth a busted antenna.

360

Someone was able to pick it up,

which kind of got me thinking.

361

If that little experiment works so well,

I wondered whether it would be possible

362

to send more of these things.

363

Like you could imagine

sending 10 or 20 of them.

364

They're not very expensive,

365

and trying to set up what's like,

what's the price of that thing

366

all in, I mean,

including that the balloon is cheap.

367

You get these things for $2.50

from Alibaba.

368

These days,

the little balloons are nothing

369

bored with the Raspberry Pi Pico

and then any off the shelf Lora chip.

370

You know, 510 bucks.

371

The tricky part was the firmware.

372

So as this thing goes around the world,

right, it crosses different Lora regions.

373

And so you need to be smart

about sending your frequency to the

374

the new one that you

show up in based on the GPS.

375

But once you've

376

got that down,

it seems to work really well.

377

And so have you sent up another one or.

378

No, it was just too tricky to do it

the second time.

379

We just haven't gotten to it.

380

I have sent up two since then

and neither of them has worked,

381

and I am 90% sure it's because I switched

to using a different Lora chip

382

without a temperature compensated

oscillator, and I think it froze.

383

But we're going to go back

to the old design

384

and see whether we can get this working

with the new, new iteration of Meshtastic.

385

And for this project in particular,

what I'd love to do is have two modes

386

where the device boots up

when it gets some sun on the solar panels.

387

It can be a Meshtastic repeater, but send

the downlink to laboratory over LoRaWAN.

388

You know, use all of those base stations,

just like I did in the past to track it,

389

and then maybe put it

on a community map or something

390

so that people would know

where these things are,

391

whether they could connect to them,

and they're up at 15km high.

392

So it's 15,000m, let's see.

393

And planes are flying at 35,000ft,

which is 10,000m.

394

So these are well above

where planes are flying generally.

395

Yeah, exactly.

396

And that's that's one of the main concerns

when you're doing ballooning stuff.

397

Right. It's worth

spending a couple of minutes on that.

398

Back in the day when we were flying this

399

with those iridium modems,

these things weighed kilograms.

400

And it doesn't matter

where they are in the sky.

401

You got to make sure that the airplanes

know where they are and how to avoid them.

402

The cool thing about Lora and LoRaWAN is

how miniaturized you can make everything.

403

The total mass of that one that I sent

it worked was less than ten grams.

404

All what?

405

Absolutely like negligible payload mass.

406

You build these things stupid lights

407

that you can hit that equilibrium

where that balloon doesn't pop.

408

So it's it's really

409

think of releasing a party balloon.

410

That's that's more than what

this thing is.

411

I think the other thing is,

and this this may

412

help, is I've been looking at these

AR VR glasses.

413

I ordered a pair of these Myntra

glass glasses.

414

They have the camera and the microphone

on them and they're saying they're 49g.

415

So I weighed my regular glasses

that I wear and they were 29g.

416

And so what you're telling me is that this

thing that's doing all of this messaging

417

is it travels around the world, weighs

less than a third of a pair of eyeglasses.

418

Exactly, exactly.

419

It's it's the hardest part.

420

You've got to get the software right,

421

but also the hardware can weigh

almost nothing.

422

If you're going to do this

this long duration flight.

423

So the risk of these things is is very,

very low.

424

And the amateur radio

425

guys have been doing this for years,

and there's never really been an incident

426

except for one, you know,

haven't taken down a jetliner yet earlier.

427

There's never

there's never been, closets of,

428

you know, slamming into an airplane

or anything like that.

429

But one was shot down and I actually knew

the guy who'd had that happen.

430

So the amateur radio term for

these things is a pico balloon.

431

It's just the canonical term

people have invented for it.

432

This thing is made of mylar, which has

this metallic aluminum coating on it.

433

So they're not impossible

to see the radar.

434

And if anyone in the audience

435

remembers a couple of years back, there

was this really cool Chinese spy balloon.

436

It wasn't really a hoax. It was something

that was actually happening.

437

So right off the tail of that,

there was this immense intrigue.

438

Not really paranoia,

but I call it intrigue over,

439

you know, mysterious balloons

showing up in the middle of nowhere.

440

And there was this one,

there was a ham radio version of that.

441

So it was sending telemetry out over

just HF, just tracking where it was.

442

Flew over northern Saskatchewan, I believe

443

it was one of the Canadian provinces

middle of nowhere.

444

And somebody picked this up on radar.

445

And the US sent in F-22 Raptor

446

up to shoot this thing down

with Sidewinder.

447

And they did. And that's very compelling.

448

The way that this was figured out

449

was that exactly the way

that this was figured out

450

was that this guy was in our

Pekoe ballooning group CIO channel.

451

They said, hey, guys,

something really weird happened.

452

Like it was working great.

It was the middle of the day.

453

And then here's

where the last telemetry was.

454

As I'm someone just post a copy

of the news article that shows the X marks

455

the spot where this airplane was the

that shot the thing down.

456

I think we we probably used

maybe a $400,000 missile or something

457

to blow up a ham radio balloon

458

that may have cost the guy,

you know, in total, 10 or 20 bucks.

459

That sounds like America,

if that is that historic conduct warfare,

460

can you imagine working as,

you know, a pilot?

461

I guess in the military, this is a

completely different world than I live.

462

And and getting that call.

So please get going.

463

We need to go and take care of a UFO.

464

Go and go and shoot the thing

where you put slings and missiles

465

that exact like, exactly like there are

there are worse things to do, I guess.

466

No kidding.

467

Well, thanks so much for coming on.

468

It's always awesome to to hear it

so it's easy to get off on these tangents.

469

And I know we're going to talk

470

some more balloons off line here,

but thanks a ton for coming on and kind

471

clearing up the Meshtastic versus

LoRaWAN debate.

472

Thanks, dawg.

Yeah of course. Always a pleasure, Nik.

473

That's it for

this episode of The Business of Laurel.

474

And if you want to go deeper

and actually deploy devices,

475

the Médio Scientific

Console is the fastest way to do that.

476

And honestly, it's

also the best way to support the show.

477

When you use the console, you're not just

listening, you're participating

478

in the same real world LoRaWAN work

we talk about here every week.

479

You can get started with the free trial

480

at meteoscientific.com Huge

thanks to the sponsor of this show.

481

The Helium Foundation, for supporting open

LoRaWAN infrastructure worldwide.

482

Check them out at helium.foundation.

483

And if the show has been useful,

a quick rating or review on Apple Podcasts

484

or wherever you listen.

485

This really helps

486

people find it and helps the show grow

so we can help more people.

487

I'm Nik Hawks with MeteoScientific.

488

I'll catch you on the next episode.