Speaker:
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Today's guest on
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MeteoScientific's
The Business of LoRaWAN is Britt Antley,
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an industrial IoT practitioner
who spent nearly two decades at Chevron
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and now helps companies deploy real world
IoT solutions at Wika.
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His perspective matters
because it comes from field
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working inside large scale operations,
then translating that experience
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in a practical deployments for companies
that are just getting started.
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In this episode,
we walk through his path from traditional
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IT and process control into industrial IoT
and what actually changes
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when you move from controlling systems
to simply observing them.
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We get into the economics
and speed of LoRaWAN style deployments,
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where a $10,000 hard wired sensor becomes
a $500 device you can install in minutes,
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and how that shift enables entirely
new use cases.
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We also dig into how companies
uncover opportunities for IoT,
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especially in brownfield environments,
and what it really means
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to put eyes on systems
that were previously manual.
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We finish up by covering workers
sentinel sensor, including how adding
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ultrasound extends predictive maintenance
from weeks out to potentially months out.
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This episode is sponsored
by the Helium Foundation
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and is dedicated
to spreading knowledge about LoRaWAN.
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If you'd like to try helium
publicly available global LoRaWAN for free
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and support this show, sign up at Meat
Sideshow Slash console.
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Now let's dig into the
conversation with Brittany.
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Brett,
thanks so much for coming on the show.
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Super psyched to have here. Awesome.
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Nick, thanks for having me.
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Excited to talk to you about LoRaWAN.
Yeah.
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I'm psyched.
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So you were at Chevron for geez,
almost 20 years, 17, 17.
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Okay, three short of two decades.
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Would you walk me through
kind of how long you've been in IoT?
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Was that IIoT industrial IoT?
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Was that there the entire time,
or was that something fairly recent?
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Kind of. Why did you get into it?
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So Chevron I kind of bounced around
within the general IoT space.
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My first experience kind of on the
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OT operational technology side,
I was in IT audit.
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So while I was in audit
I worked on auditing PCN systems.
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From there,
I moved into a role as a PCN administrator
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at a chemical plant
outside of New Orleans.
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I was there for four years,
got more familiar with kind of the OT
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side of things, and then I guess in 21
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I moved over to the industrial IoT space.
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Chevron big company.
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Obviously they have a pretty big team
dedicated to working on your IoT.
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So while I was there,
I got to kind of touch every aspect
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of industrial IoT
within a large multinational.
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Obviously, your oil and gas company.
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Yeah.
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Was there anything that
when you got over there
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that was a surprise to you
or that you felt like,
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oh, this is something super cool
that like, I wish more people knew about?
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I would say one of the
one of the big kind of eye
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opening things for me was there's
kind of this difference between
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your traditional operation technology,
your process control systems.
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You got your hard wired,
everything is very tightly controlled.
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Then moving into the IoT space,
first of all, at Chevron
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and kind of in general on the industry,
you don't see much control in IoT.
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It's more just monitoring.
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So for me,
it was kind of a mindset change moving
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from the process control side over to IoT.
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Well, at the same time, IoT
allows you to be so flexible,
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so agile compared
to your traditional process control.
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You're able to much more quickly, easily
and cheaply
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deploy these IoT solutions.
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For me,
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that was a huge eye opener compared
to the more traditional side of things.
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Oh, interesting.
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Just because they are pretty easy
to deploy and especially with LoRaWAN.
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Although across all of the IoT
technologies,
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you're just putting a thing in there,
kind of slapping it on and walking away
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versus figuring out how to control stuff
and make sure you don't screw it up.
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Absolutely.
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Like deploying a traditional sensor
in a control system, obviously you're
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you're running power out there,
you're running Ethernet out there.
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You have to go through
this huge management of change process,
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which takes months.
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All this equipment is very expensive.
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One sensor, it can be $10,000.
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Now you go to like a lower win
IoT situation.
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That sensor is going to cost 500 to $1000.
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And assuming
you already have your network in place,
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literally,
you walk up to a piece of equipment,
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you slap that sensor on there and within
a couple of minutes you've got data.
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So just the ease and quickness
and the cheapness with
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which you can deploy
IoT is really a game changer in my mind.
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Was there a sense in Chevron
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that IoT kind of wasn't
something they should do?
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It seems like one of the things
the biggest retardants to IoT
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adoption is people are just like,
I don't know about that stuff.
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I don't know if we really need it.
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And it seems like it's super valuable,
but it's like making the case
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that it's useful, as is probably
just as difficult as figuring out,
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if not more, is figuring out the RF
and the rest of the,
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you know, frequency hopping stuff.
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Yeah, while I would say there was,
you definitely ran to some resistance
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in deploying IoT solutions
at the end of the day,
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Chevron and I would say oil and gas
in general, they're pretty early adopters
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into the IoT LoRaWAN space,
especially within the US market.
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I know you do.
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You know the European markets a little bit
ahead of us, but in the US market.
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Oil and gas
was pretty early on the adoption phase.
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So the fact that Chevron had built out
this huge
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team,
you put this huge investment into it.
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With that,
they were able to kind of create their own
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ecosystem in very quickly.
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You start to realize value out of IoT.
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And that's something that they were quick
on a lot of other companies are very kind
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of just starting to dip their toes
in, starting to figure out what is IoT.
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Honestly, that's
what I'm doing it like to figure out
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these smaller to medium sized companies
who may not necessarily know IoT.
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Irwin.
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What these technologies are,
I'm trying to I'm here
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to help them figure out
how they can create value out of that.
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Okay.
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That leads really nicely
into the next question, which is, is there
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anything beyond just saving money
that you use when you're talking to small
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and medium sized companies as a reason
for them to adopt industrial IoT?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I think the biggest thing
adopting industrial IoT
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is giving you eyes
where you currently don't have eyes.
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So a lot of the adoptions we're seeing are
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mostly
in the kind of the brownfield space,
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these established facilities
or plants, whatever it might be.
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So it's already there.
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And it's saying
with your current infrastructure,
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your current layout,
how can you get more value out of this?
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How can you get more efficiencies?
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How can you put eyes on something
that currently doesn't have eyes?
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Currently,
an operator has to go walk around
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to 60 tanks a day and visually
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look at something
visually take a level on a team.
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How can you make better use of their time?
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Instead of walking those rounds every day,
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they can look at a screen that's
going to give them the same information.
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They can get alerts that are going
to give them the same information.
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So it's kind of more of a proactive
approach.
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Right.
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And I bet that makes sense
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to a lot of a lot of business owners
who are saying, hey, I'm paying for this
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like expensive engineer.
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I can use their time to help design stuff
and create new things, rather than have
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to walk around and
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look at a button.
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Is there a bunch of conversion
of analog devices into smart sensors
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with what you're doing?
Or is it more like,
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hey, let's put something new on here,
walk me through that.
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So what we're mostly seeing now is
let's put something new on here.
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We have some type of equipment
that's currently not instrumented.
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So how can we get some data out of that?
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Essentially I do see slowly
and probably more so in the future.
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Going forward,
there will be more replacing
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those kind of hard wired with IoT devices.
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So I know, in the process control
industry, a lot of the life cycles on
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these systems are ten, 20,
maybe even 30 years.
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As they start to age, they're looking
to upgrade them, replace them.
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Well, you can replace a system
some five, $10,000 sensors.
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You can go
the same route, do the same thing, or for
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ten, maybe 20% of the cost,
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you can make those IoT as long as you're
not controlling anything.
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If you're just looking to monitor
it, have eyes on it.
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IoT is a perfect solution
in that situation.
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Interesting that there's such a point of
differentiation with this control piece.
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I haven't heard
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folks talk about that as much,
and that sounds like that's
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just coming from the background.
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Like, hey, I used to control everything,
and now I'm seeing that there's value
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in a lot of just observing
what's going on.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And a lot of current process
control systems.
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Yeah. Everything is hard wired.
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It's super industrial, super heavy duty.
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I mean, you're getting millisecond
readings.
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Yeah. And that's good for some situations.
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But a lot of times
if you get a reading every 20,
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30 minutes,
even every hour, that's perfect.
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I mean, how often is a tank
changing level?
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They're doing draws
maybe once or twice a day.
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Well, you don't need readings
every second on that.
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You put a $500 thousand dollars
sensor on there.
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You take readings every 30 minute,
every hour.
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You're getting the same quality of data
for a way cheaper.
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Yep, that makes a ton of sense
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when you're coming into a new organization
and a potential customer.
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What are the ways that you think
about uncovering or discovering
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opportunities for them to use IoT?
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I think a big part of that
is just understanding their operation,
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understanding their business,
understanding their value
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chain, understanding their key processes.
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And as you start to look at those,
you can see,
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hey, you've got this process here
that's hugely automated
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and you got a lot of people involved there
manually touching things,
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manually looking at things.
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Not only is at a time
where it can also be a big safety issue,
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especially in the oil
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and gas space, they're huge on safety,
so that's always a big concern.
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But yeah, looking at those kind of
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what are their important systems,
what is currently manual,
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what could we easily go in and instrument
and get them data,
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get them actionable insights
and let them really have
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a great vision of this system
where essentially turning manual processes
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into more automated processes
now makes sense.
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So you go and understand the system
and then sit and kind of look
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for these key points of like, hey,
we're obviously where can we save money?
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Where can we make you more efficient,
where can we make you more safe?
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And maybe there's like 2 or 3
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more kind of columns that you,
that you hit or pillars that you hit.
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But that sounds about right.
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Yeah. Cool.
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So walk me through this sentinel thing
that we CA or Waka has just brought in.
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What is this thing?
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Yeah.
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So Sentinel,
it's lead by a company called a system.
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A system is a company that Wyck
recently became the majority owner of.
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So the Sentinel is a sensor.
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The most traditional way to think about it
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is it is a machinery health
monitoring sensor.
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So within this one sensor
there is temperature.
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It is also measuring the vibration
tri axial vibration.
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And I think the real secret sauce within
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it is
we also have ultrasound measurements.
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So the vibrations pretty typical.
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We see that a lot of different companies
have their version of vibration sensors.
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But bringing that extra level
of ultrasound into the sentinel sensor,
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what that allows us to do is get a whole
nother level of analysis.
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So your traditional vibration sensor,
you can go to
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five,
maybe ten kilohertz, a vibration detection
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with the ultrasound, you're able
to take that up to 60 to 70kHz.
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Now what this ultimately allows you to do
is to get a further look into the future.
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So you put this sensor on
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any type of rotating machinery,
whether that's a pump, a motor,
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a compressor, you put it on there
and it's able to perform analysis.
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A big part of this sentinel
is also a machine learning aspect
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that we're able to do on our platform.
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So yeah, you take in all this data,
you kind of determine what's baseline.
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And then off of that you're able to say,
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hey, I'm detecting some weird sound
and the machine learning
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is able to actually say, hey,
I detected this type of sound.
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This can mean
that you have a bearing going bad.
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And once you have that level of analysis,
then you can have one of your engineers
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go and say, hey,
something's going wrong with this motor.
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Let me go out and check it.
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Whereas your traditional
kind of processes,
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maybe once every week, every month
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at best, you have a mobile sensor
that you put on a piece of equipment.
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You kind of listen,
I mean, even more traditional,
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you have engineers out there
who will literally tap on something,
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or they'll put their ears up to it
and listen.
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And these are
professionals are very good at their job.
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But when you can put a sensor on there
that's doing that 24 over seven
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and is able to do it at, a deeper level,
I think that's a real game changer.
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What's the performance difference
when you add
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an ultrasound versus
just the vibration sensors?
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There's a
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maybe not a metric ton of those
in the market, but there's a lot of
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a lot of kind of machinery
listening sensors on the market.
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There's ultrasound
sounds like it's pretty fancy and special.
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Like how much better is it?
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I guess the question. Yeah.
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So the best way I know to quantify that
from data I've seen is that, vibration.
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And typically they can see issues
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that are maybe a couple weeks
or a month out.
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So we're starting to tuck this vibration.
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Something's going on.
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Maybe in a couple weeks
it could become a real issue.
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So I had to do something about it
with the ultrasound capability.
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From what I've seen,
were able to detect issues
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that are like three,
maybe even four months out year.
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Okay.
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So it's less severe
that what the vibrations able to detect.
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So you have this little thing
that's starting to go wrong.
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Not an issue now but keep an eye on it.
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Maybe go ahead and order that back up part
so you can have it ready.
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Yeah. So that's that's kind of the beauty.
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It allows you to see kind of
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further into the future
to do your predictive maintenance.
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Oh that's that's rad.
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Super cool.
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Let's see.
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Let's wrap this up a little bit.
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On a slightly more personal note,
you're way into beer.
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We were talking a little bit
about building
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breweries and sensing or sunsetting
whatever it is, instrumenting breweries
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before we recorded.
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Maybe we start with this idea
of kind of consumer versus industrial IoT,
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and what the big differences are and walk
you through kind of what that looks like.
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And is there a difference
or is it kind of IoT as IoT?
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Yeah,
there's definitely a difference there.
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I think it's
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kind of important to understand
and there's also different levels to it.
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One example recently I was at one of
my favorite breweries here in Denver.
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I was talking to the owner.
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He was mentioning
they had a temperature sensor
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in their cold box that had been kind of
iffy, wasn't giving them great data.
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I'm like, oh, interesting.
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Well, my company I worked for, white Guy.
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We actually have a solution
that could solve that, but
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they're using kind of a
more consumer grade IoT.
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It was probably like $50 sensor.
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And for the most part, it worked
well for them.
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And also at this cold box, if
the sensor went bad, the cold box was hot.
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They had other ways,
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kind of secondary ways to look at it
and see what the temperature was.
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So your industrial grade IoT,
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it's not going to be as cheap
as your consumer grade,
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but it's going to be much more reliable,
much more durable.
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It's designed to be in more extreme
environments.
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When you say industrial IoT,
you're deploying at various sites,
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chemical plants, manufacturing facilities,
a lot of times
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there are hazardous gases,
so you don't want anything
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that could potentially cause
a spark in an explosion.
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And we don't want things to blow up.
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So yeah.
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Industrial non-optimal
yeah yeah yeah yeah.
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And not looking for that in general. Okay.
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And then
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just as an example of what you might do
if you had to go in today and today is
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I think we're recording on Wednesday,
by the end of the week,
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you had to close a brewery
on a sensor somewhere.
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And what are Denver, what would you target
as a as the kind of pitch?
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Because that seems like an industry
you're pretty familiar with.
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So you wouldn't
have to learn that much about it.
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What would you kind of walk into
any given brewery and be like,
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I know they're going to need this.
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So, I mean, temperatures as you age one,
you got all types of mass of equipment
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that's cheating product, cooling it down.
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So being able to monitor that
and keep an eye on it is a huge space.
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I will say that most of the modern
brewing equipment
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usually has all this sensing
kind of already built in.
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If you're buying
one of the new state of the art systems.
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All of this is kind of built
in, which is cool to see, but let's say
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tomorrow, cures here nearby in Golden,
they call me up.
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Hey, we're having some issues
with our instrumentation here.
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What can you offer?
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I'm a go.
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And number one,
what's your temperature look like?
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Number two, what is pressure look like?
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You're moving around a lot of liquid,
a lot of volume.
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Sometimes it's pressurized.
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So being able to monitor that,
keep an eye on it is another huge system.
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Super cool.
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And I can see with certainly
with the bigger breweries, with Coors,
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or even a kind of midsize brewery
that they're going to be willing to pay
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the industrial IoT prices versus like,
hey, I'll just order this thing
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off the internet,
have it here tomorrow. Absolutely.
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I mean, it
obviously depends on the type of system.
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And industrial IoT isn't for everything.
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But in these big manufacturing facilities,
which breweries are
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I mean, they're just
they're manufacturing a delicious product
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that we like to drink,
but that's all it is.
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It's a manufacturing facility.
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So, yeah, and something like that,
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when you have the huge scale industrial
IoT makes sense.
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Ripping.
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Well, thanks so much for making time today
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:
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and coming on
and talking to us a little bit about IoT.
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We want to hit on the lower end stuff,
but I think for this audience,
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they've got a pretty good understanding
of how it works.
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So it's super cool
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to see really the perspective
that you bring to the industry.
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Thanks. Thanks. Coming on.
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:
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Awesome.
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:
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Great talking to you, Nik,
and thanks for having me on.
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:
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That's it for
this episode of The Business of LoRaWAN.
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:
00:18:48
If you want to go deeper
and actually deploy devices,
366
:
00:18:51
the MeteoScientific
Console is the fastest way to do that,
367
:
00:18:54
and honestly, it's
also the best way to support the show.
368
:
00:18:58
When you use the console, you're not just
listening, you're participating
369
:
00:19:02
in the same real world LoRaWAN work
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370
:
00:19:06
You can get started with the free trial
at Medio scientific.com.
371
:
00:19:10
Huge thanks to the sponsor of the show,
the Helium Foundation,
372
:
00:19:13
for supporting open LoRaWAN
infrastructure worldwide.
373
:
00:19:16
Check them out at helium Dot Foundation
and if the show has been
374
:
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useful, a quick rating or review
on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.
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:
00:19:23
This really helps
376
:
00:19:24
people find it and helps the show grow
so we can help more people.
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:
00:19:27
I'm Nik Hawks with MeteoScientific.
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I'll catch you on the next episode.