At four years old, Ryan Medler had cancer — and the doctor who nearly missed it changed his family's legal history. His mother quit her defense firm and launched the plaintiff practice that Ryan now calls home, Medler Law. He joins host Dan Ambrose to share highlights of his path, which includes 11 trials to date. Tune in as he reflects on his first trial that earned him thousands less than he’d asked for, his innovative decision to bring a habitability claim into a slip-and-fall case, and the chainsaw case that he brought under a section of the California labor code. As he says: It’s more interesting than it sounds.

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Episode Snapshot

• Ryan grew up in St. Louis, attended UCLA for his undergraduate degree, and then moved to New York, managing nightclubs for several years before enrolling at New York Law School on a full scholarship.
• Ryan began his legal career as a floater at Wilshire Law Firm before joining trial attorney Gene Sullivan's five-person firm, where he co-first-chaired nine trials in just over three years. He now practices at the firm that his parents founded.
• In a slip-and-fall case against a slumlord with a leaking skylight over a staircase, Ryan won over $6.5 million at verdict — a figure that grew to more than $9 million by the time it was paid out.
• Ryan added a habitability claim to that slip-and-fall so he could introduce photos of mold, rats, holes in walls, and exposed wiring. Post-trial, jurors confirmed that the photos made them so angry they raised all damages across the board.
• Ryan's takeaway from his “chainsaw” case under a California labor code: Rather than attacking the opposing witness directly, he used that witness to expose six lies told by the defendant, defense counsel, and defense expert. The defense settled for the $1.5 million policy limit.
• Ryan will teach a case analysis session and trial preparation workshop at TLU Beach.

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Today we got my old and dear friend Ryan

Medler with us because Ryan has just

recently started his own law

firm with his parents. And

what's it been now? Just about

six months, just a few months.

Just a few months, just as of

January. So about three months now.

All right. And Ryan, when did we

first meet? Was it what did you say?

2018?

2018. So like eight years ago.

So you have a better memory of

this tonight. So tell me about,

because a lot of people know me,

they got this story of

how I met Dan Ambrose.

Everyone remembers how

they met you. I know.

It's amazing. It's like a.

Funny.

Story. So how did we meet?

We met at my first ever Cala event.

So I had just graduated New York Law

School and I didn't know anyone in

California. So I had gone to

college out here years earlier,

but in the legal world, specifically

the PI world, I didn't know anybody.

So I went to this big CALA event. And

even though I'm a very confident guy,

I was a little nervous because

I didn't know anybody there.

And most people there,

everybody was very nice,

but not many people really spoke

much to the young law school student.

But you were there. You were one of

the only people that was not in a tie.

And I remember thinking you

looked very approachable.

And I introduced myself

and you were super nice.

And I remember thinking this is one of

the only people that I've ever met who

seems as excitable when it

comes to trials as I am,

because I've always been the trial guy.

I've always known that this is what I

wanted to do. And so I really wanted

to get plugged in and I thought,

if I can meet even one person that can

be a good relationship for getting me

into trials, this will have

been a success. It'd be.

Worth the trip.

That was you, man.

All right. You said you've always known

that you wanted to be a trial lawyer.

Say more what you mean by that.

In kindergarten, when you go around

the circle and everyone says, oh,

I want to be an astronaut. I

want to be a baseball player.

I stood up at six years old and

said, I want to be not only a lawyer.

I said I wanted to be a plaintiff's

personal injury trial lawyer at six years

old. And the reason is that I've seen

it before. My parents are lawyers.

And so growing up, that's what my mom was.

She was a plaintiff's

personal injury trial lawyer.

And my dad was a personal

injury trial lawyer.

He became a plaintiff's

lawyer years later, but I

knew that's what I want to do.

But your mom, how did your mom,

because your dad stayed a defense

lawyer for much longer than your mom,

but when did your mom know she

wanted to be a plaintiff's lawyer?

It's actually a pretty crazy story.

When I was four years old, I had cancer.

And my mom, she didn't

know that I had cancer,

but she just had a mother's intuition.

She knew something was wrong.

And so she took me to a doctor, the same

doctor she'd been going to for decades.

And he basically said that

she was being a histrionic,

overworrisome mom. And he

didn't run any tests on me.

And so being the badass that

she was, this is before Google.

Instead of pulling out

Google on her phone,

she goes to the front secretary and

she says, let me see your yellow-.

Pages.

Yellow pages.

And she starts calling up other doctors

at the doctor's office and she calls

three other doctors.

And eventually the other two doctors

also thought she was being crazy.

The third doctor ran tests on me and

it turns out I really did have cancer.

And so they operated just a few

days later. His name was Dr. Bell.

He saved my life. But when my mom

went back to work the next week,

she at the time was working as a defense

attorney for medical malpractice cases.

And so she's heard the way that attorneys

and these doctors were talking about

plaintiffs as being money

grubbing and faking. And here,

these doctors the previous week,

they could have cost me my life.

And she realized this is not it.

This is not why I got into this.

And so she quit that day. And a few

days later, she opened up her own firm,

the Medler Law Firm,

which I'm now a member of.

My mom started a few decades ago,

and I just thought that was really

inspirational. And so from a young age,

I thought that's what I want to do.

And so you get this

vision, which is great,

because then it's good to have a target

when we're going through life. But

what do you remember about ... Let

me say, you said you had cancer.

So what do you remember about that

experience? Because it seems so young,

you wouldn't remember any of it.

Yeah, this might sound weird,

but I tell people that I remember the

good parts of cancer, which is crazy.

And what I mean by that is that I

had an incredible set of support

people in my life, mainly my mom and

my dad, all the people in my life.

And so because I was so young,

I've repressed what I'm sure are bad

memories that must exist out there,

but I just remember waking up every day

being loved by the people who love me.

I remember it wasn't Make a Wish,

it was called the Dream Factory,

but it was a similar opportunity where

kids with cancer got to make a wish and I

got to make my wish I went to Disney

World. And even though I was bald,

I had my chemotherapy drugs and I

had lost my hair. And the rest of it,

I just remember being loved. And I just

remember thinking how blessed I was

because I had a lot of friends who

weren't so lucky who lost their lives at

young ages. But even them,

they were just happy to their dying days

because they knew that every day is a

blessing. So sometimes when I meet people,

they say, wow, you're very excitable.

You're very full of life. And I think

that's- You are very excitable and.

Very full of life.

Right? Well, if anyone would know,

that would be you, sir. I know that,

but I'm just saying. So I think

that's where I get mine from.

It's from that young age of realizing

that every day is a blessing and we got to

just seize the day.

This is true. Season it.

We are. Season it, we are.

So you grew up in Missouri, is that right?

That's right. St. Louis.

St. Louis. So how did you

find your way to California?

Well, after high school, I love St.

Louis, loved Missouri. It was great,

but I knew I wanted to do something new.

And so I'm kind of a wimp

when it comes to the cold.

So I knew I wanted to come

to California. I hear.

You on that one, buddy.

It's.

From Michigan.

You feel me?

Cold, the dark, the dreary.

I think most sane people can easily

reject those weather patterns.

It's like here, we have the

beach, we have the sunshine, we.

Have the.

Ocean.

Yeah.

It's a much better life

out here in California.

Well, it was the life for me. Put it that

way. Me too. I was very happy. Me too.

So you come out to California for college?

For college, yeah. At UCLN.

Wow. It's impressive.

That's a good school.

And did you participate in

any extracurricular activities

in college that help you

prepare to become a lawyer?

Yeah. I mean, since actually

seventh grade, my extracurricular,

I did other things, speech and

debate, other things here and there,

but the main thing-.

More manly things, not-.

More manly things. That's right.

Speech and debate.

Chess club. That's right. Yes. I

legitimately was on the Frisbee team.

Fisby team.

Yeah. Only the toughest stuff. Coolest.

Guys.

Coolest guys. No, mock trial.

Mock trial was always my thing.

And so from seventh grade all

the way up through high school,

all the way to college.

When I was in college,

I was on UCLA's mock trial team

as well. And that's my everything.

That's what I loved more than anything

else in the world because it gave me a

chance to be in a courtroom.

And even though they say

it's mock and it's pretend,

the lessons that I learned in mock trial

are still lessons that I use to this

day. My first ever mock trial

coach was my dad in seventh grade,

and he taught me things that I

still use to this day. And so yeah,

when I was in UCLA, I

was on the trial team.

And then when I eventually

went to law school,

I continued being on the trial team.

And we started a mock trial program for

some kids up in the Bronx and I would go

up and I would teach them how to do mock

trial. And so it's always been my thing

that I care about a lot because it

gives me a chance to do what I love.

Mock trial. My girlfriend

Noel does mock trial too.

She's very passionate about the.

Mock trial. And she's

very good. Yeah. She's.

Coming along quite well

with the mock trial.

That's fantastic.

So you spend your time in college

at UCLA and then after college,

where do you go from there?

Well, eventually I went to law school,

but I had a little break in

between college and law school.

I really wanted to move to New York and

I wanted to kind of grow up to live my

life a little bit. And so

when I moved to New York,

I did some non-legal things there for a

few years because I wanted just to live

my life. So one of the funny

jobs that I did along that time,

I worked at startups and I worked at

restaurants and I worked in retail,

but for a while there,

I was actually working in nightclubs

and I actually was managing nightclubs.

And for anybody who knows me,

you know that I like to dance.

I like to have a fun time. And so

it was great. It was so much fun.

And so to this day, I haven't been in

the nightclub world for many, many years,

but I still have those friends. And if

I want to go out and have a good time,

I can always hit them up.

And it was definitely something I'm

glad that I did because I could not have

been Mr. Nightclub guy in

the middle of law school.

I wanted to be able to

focus 100% on law school.

And when I did eventually

decide to go back,

I was able to entirely thrust myself into

it because I had a few years there to

have fun in between.

And so where do you go to law school?

It's called New York Law School. And I

was proud to get a full ride scholarship.

When I heard that earlier today,

I was shocked. I was like ...

Yeah.

Believe it or not. So now.

I'll put some other things in the context,

but we'll talk about that in a bit,

but go on.

Yeah. And full.

Ride.

Full ride and I love my time there.

It was amazing. While I was there,

my last year I was president of

my class, which was an honor,

president of the SBA. And I

was on the mock trial team.

I was on the moot court

team. I was on law review.

I did kind of anything that I could

to get involved in the community.

I obviously was also top of

my class and- But you're.

Actually number two in your class, right?

Number two. Yeah. I mean.

That's quite the top.

Slumted at the bottom.

Don't say I was close to top of my class.

Close to the top.

Of my class.

That would be being honest with the people

who are listening to this. Thank you.

So that'd be good.

Okay. Keeping me honest.

Graduate near the top of your

class from law school and then you

decided to venture back to LA

and that's where you and I meet.

Is.

That right?

That's exactly right.

And so

let's talk about your trial lawyering

journey now that you came west to

where it's warm and sunny.

That's right.

Every day.

The chosen.

Land. Every day. Yes.

So you first get here,

other than obviously meeting me was a

significant moment there. But beyond that,

tell us how you first get started

actually being a lawyer locally here.

Well,

my first job was at Wilshire Law Firm

and Bobby Sadian was nice enough to hire

me. And I loved my time over at

Willshire. I spent several years there.

When I first started working there, I was

a floater, so I worked with everybody.

So I worked with the head

partner over there, Colin Jones.

I worked with an incredible trial

lawyer, bless his soul, John Teller,

who we lost too soon last year.

And I worked with many other great lawyers

while I was over there and they all

taught me a lot. But before I got a

chance to actually jump into trials,

I obviously was a new attorney and I

wanted any opportunity I could to learn

trials before I actually

was going to trial.

So I worked with you for my first

few years as well. So I went to,

obviously now you're

Trial Lawyers University,

but previously you were Trojan Horse.

The Trojan.

Horseshoe.

The Trojan Horse, yes. The.

Trojan Horse Method.

The Trojan Horse Method.

So I went to the Trojan Horse Method

events and I also had some one-on-one

sessions with you. And

then I think of all,

and I went to all of your overall seminars

that you did and I learned from some

incredible people, but- But then.

We lived in this. Ryan was so persistent.

He moved into my building

for a year and a half,

not only so I could whoop

his ass in ping pong. Well,

most of the time I whipped you.

But then he got to come to workshops

without having to get in a car. That's.

Exactly right. Yeah. During

COVID, nobody was doing anything.

Everybody was obviously staying

inside. And so we were safe,

but we met up with how many? It was

like six, seven, eight of us. Something.

Like that.

Something like that.

We would meet over in Dan's apartment

every week and we would meet for a long

time, three, four hours. And

for a week, three to four hours,

I think over the course of that year,

you said, great job, maybe once,

because that's not what we were there

for. We were there to get better.

And so I really valued my time

there because I came in over

cocky. I came in thinking, "Oh,

I've been doing all this pretend

trial stuff for all this time,

so I must know what I'm doing."

And very quickly, I was humbled.

And one of the things that you do that

I like is you videotape us and you have

us watch yourself.

And especially after you've heard the

critiques of yourself and then you're

watching yourself, it's cringey. You're

like, "I can't believe I'm doing that.

" I.

Was cringing right along with you.

Well, you know what? Yeah.

Thankfully though. Thankfully.

We had an intervention

when you were younger.

We did. And so you helped

me with a lot, man.

So once I finally got that chance

to get my first real trial,

I felt much more comfortable.

I felt like I was ready to go.

I felt like obviously we

get better with every trial,

every time we get up there and do it,

but I really did feel like I had

the tools at my disposal to be

able to go and do this.

April 21st through 25th in

Hermosa Beach, California,

we're hosting a bootcamp where you

will train in the fundamental skills of

trial, witness prep and

direct, cross-examination,

performance skills,

which are opening statement and closing

argument and jury selection or voir

dire, depending on where you live.

We're going to focus on eye contact,

voice control, emotional state

control, hand and body movement,

glance control, creating

space amongst other skills.

And then once you learn these skills,

we're going to apply them to your case.

So at the end of the day, it's

an investment and a case expense.

This program will

fundamentally change your life.

And so what was that first

trial that you were in?

The first trial I was in was with

an incredible attorney, Hazel Chang.

She did the trial with me, one of my

good friends, incredible attorney,

but it was one of her first trials

too, and we were both nervous.

I got the opportunity in my

first ever trial to do a lot.

I am blessed that in all my

trials, I have 11 trials now.

I essentially co-first chaired all

of them. So in all of my trials,

I either do openings or

I do closings, voir dire,

directs crosses, all the above, but it

was my first time doing it for real.

And so it was scary.

One of the things I remember going

back and looking at a transcript,

I thought my cross-examination at

the time of the defense doctor,

the defense DME doctor, I

thought it was fantastic.

And then when I've gone

back and looked at it later,

it's not that the points were wrong,

it's that it was too long. It's that I

was trying to get into the weeds with him

on all of his opinions, as opposed

to just getting in, getting out,

having a few to straight points,

talk about his bias and get out.

And so that's an example of, at the time

I thought, that was pretty damn good.

But then when you go back

and you look, you realize-.

Right. And I think the

verdict also reflected.

That.

It wasn't ... Because you didn't lose it,

but you came out as close as you can

to losing without actually losing.

We did. We won around $100,000 and

asked for about more than 10 times

that, more than a hundred times.

Yeah, there you go. So

that's not exactly ideal,

but when you're doing it,

you have yourself fully

convinced that you're right,

fully believing in it.

So as a younger lawyer,

you're going to have to deal with

rejection and loss. And so what was that,

being the first time up there, being all

excited, thinking this is your moment,

this is your case and just ...

So how do you recover from that?

I remember there is nothing

scarier to this day,

and doesn't matter how many trials I do,

there is absolutely nothing scarier

than when the jury walks back in.

And that time when you were waiting

for them to read it and- Verdict watch.

The verdict watch. It is so painful.

And you can usually tell

from the first few result,

the first few answers, whether or not

it's going to be a good verdict or not.

And I remember he got to pass

medicals and for past medicals,

we asked for hundreds of thousands of

dollars and they awarded us, I think,

$30,000.

And I remember just everything

just sank. My heart sank.

I remember thinking, "Oh my

God, this is so embarrassing.

I put so much work into this.

How could this have happened?" But what's

interesting is I think that there are

some of us, and maybe it's a blessing.

I like to think of it as a blessing,

but there's some of us that are just

wired differently that when this happens,

I think for a lot of people,

their first reaction is,

"I never want to do this again. Oh my

God, I just lost. This is embarrassing.

This is terrible." My first

thought was my poor client.

I felt bad for my client. I would hope.

So.

I wanted my client to get way more money

and I just felt terrible for him and

that will never go away.

And that's something that when you

don't get the results you want in trial,

I think about my clients that

thankfully, knock on wood,

most of my trials have been very

successful, but the few that haven't,

I think about them to this day.

But when I was driving home,

my thought was not, "I'm done

with this. " My thought was,

I kind of felt like Kobe

after he lost in the finals,

he was back in the gym the very next day

and he said that he could not wait to

get back out there and get his

opportunity to make it right.

And that's what my thought was.

I can't wait to get back in the gym

and to redeem myself, to work with you,

to work with other people, to get better,

to not let this happen again. And that's

when I knew like, "Yep, this is ...

" I mean, I've always known

that I wanted to do this,

but it was confirmation that if you can

go and you can really take on a verdict

that's not what you're looking for and

still be able to hold your head high and

say, "I gave it my all and I can't wait

to get out there and do a better job,

then this is what you should be.

Doing." You eventually leave

Wilshire after what, three years?

A little over, closer

to four, yeah, three.

And a half years. Four years. And then

you start up with Gene Sullivan. That's.

Right, the man.

So tell us about why you

made that switch from

Wilshire to Gene, and then

about your time there.

Well, Gene's an amazing attorney,

and I had known about him

prior to joining onto his firm,

and I really wanted to be at

a firm with a great litigator

who had access to great trials, who also,

as amazing as Wilshire

was, it was this big firm,

and I was used to having people

there to help me with everything.

And Gene also had an amazing

staff that helped me incredibly,

but it was much smaller. There was only

five of us that worked at the firm.

And so I was excited to go somewhere

where I would be able to have a lot more

responsibility and be able to take

over a lot more and have access to some

really great cases to go to trial

on. And that's what I got to do.

I got to go to trial on nine trials

with Gene in a little over three years,

and we had a really good results,

and I learned an incredible amount

from him. I was very, very lucky. All.

Right.

So I want to talk to you about two of

those quote unquote incredible results.

Okay. So when everything's

incredible or super,

you remind me of my friend Donald.

But you had a slip and fall vert. I know

you had a nice slip and fall verdict,

and then you had a chainsaw verdict. So

tell us about the slip and fall case.

What was that about?

Yeah, the slip and fall case. I

was very proud of that result.

We won over six and a half

million dollars at verdict.

And then by the time that verdict was

paid out, it was closer to $10 million,

over $9 million.

And that case was about a

slumlord who had this terrible

dilapidated building. And

at the top of the building,

there was a skylight and skylight

hung over a staircase and the

skylight had holes in it.

And so water would drip through the

skylight onto the stairs and people

would fall and get hurt.

And prior to my client,

there were multiple people who fell

and were hurt on these stairs and the

building never did anything to fix it.

And so here comes my client, same thing,

water on the stairs. She

didn't know to look for it.

She's a new tenant in the building.

She fell down the stairs and was extremely

injured. And so in addition- What's.

Extremely injured?

She ended up having to get a

fusion surgery in her neck.

She also had to get a surgery

on her shoulder and her knee.

She was very seriously injured.

But what was interesting about

that case is that in addition to

bringing the personal injury case,

we also brought a habitability

claim in that case,

which is what made it very unique.

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neural linguistic programming,

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prep and direct, cross-examination,

performance skills for opening statement

and closing argument and voir dire.

These days will change your

life. Come for the bootcamp,

stay for TLU Beach, the

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Okay. So the habitability claim,

what was the strategic objective of the

habitability claim?

Well, when we first heard ...

So just so everyone understands who may

not have brought a habitability claim

before,

what a habitability claim means is

whenever you agree to move into a place,

there is an understanding that the

place you move into will be habitable

somewhere- I think it's a.

Covenant. Yeah.

It's a covenant. It's a.

Covenant between the.

Landlord and the 10.

Exactly right. And it's an

implied covenant even if

it's not specifically in the

language of the contract.

And it just means that this place is

somewhere where people should be able to

live. It's healthy and it's not

somewhere where that's dangerous. Well,

where my client lived was extremely

dangerous. There was mold,

there were holes in the

walls, there were rats,

there was exposed electrical wiring.

It was disgusting and it's not somewhere

that anyone should be living in.

And so we brought the claim and we

told the jury this, this is true,

because we didn't want them to get away

with any of it. We didn't want them,

even if it might not sound

like it's for a lot of money,

we wanted to make sure that any amount

of money that our client was taken

advantage of, she was

properly compensated for.

Why would the $30,000 make that big

of a difference? And here's why.

Because I got to show pictures to the

jury of these terrible conditions of the

building. And we did all these focus

groups. I always encourage people,

any trial, you got to do

plenty of focus groups.

And when we talked to the focus group

people and we talked to the real jurors,

they said that when they saw these photos

of this terrible dilapidated building,

that it made them so mad that it

made them realize that all of the

damages needed to be higher.

And that's what they did.

So even though on the verdict form,

it may have only said $30,000,

the true benefit of bringing this

claim ultimately was seven figures.

And it's something I highly encourage

people to look into when they have cases

like this.

I would imagine so, based upon the

results. How do people get ahold of you?

Well, the easiest way is

my cell phone number. It's

314-308-8307, available

twenty four seven that way.

You can also email me at

ryan@medlerlawfirm.com,

or you can reach me on Instagram.

It's @rmedler or our firm,

which is @themedler Law Firm.

All right. Actually,

you've been to probably what,

eight TLU, like the big events,

three in Vegas, one in New

York, four in Hunton Beach.

So if somebody was on the fence about

coming to TLU, you're like, "God,

go to ... " I've been to

other conferences, which

won't mention any names,

but how would you say TLU is

different than other conferences?

Well,

what I think is great about TLU is

whatever it is that you want to get better

at, TLU has it there for you.

We have the top attorneys in

the entire country that come.

Obviously, a lot of them are from

California, but not exclusively.

There's incredible attorneys from all

across the country that come and they give

incredible speeches about their

past wins, which is very beneficial,

but they also get into the weeds and

they instruct you about how you can bring

value to your cases. One of the things

that you do at TLU is you have workshops,

which are not at a lot

of other conferences.

And so whatever it is that you want

to work on, you can find the workshop,

whether it's trucking cases, whether

it's maybe you have an upcoming trial,

whatever it is that you

want to get better at,

you have individualized workshops where

you can work with these incredible

tightens of the industry.

And obviously,

in addition to getting

better at everything,

your conferences are also very fun too.

You have all sorts of fun events

and parties, and I can't tell you-.

The funnest.

The funnest, yes. The.

Funs and you make so

many new friends at TLU.

Can't tell you how many close friends

for the rest of my life I have,

and obviously business associates,

but I really do feel like

when I go to these events,

it's like being around family.

That's I feel too. It is

like my family. That is true.

All right. And so this chainsaw case,

tell us about this chainsaw case. It's.

An interesting case.

It was a case that we brought

Before you fall asleep, it's actually

more interesting than it sounds.

So what that means is in our case,

a woman hired someone to

perform a job that required a

license under the law. In this case,

it was cutting down a tree

that was over 15 feet tall.

Look, it's the birthday

girl sliding right by then.

Happy birthday, Noelle. Happy birthday.

All right. So good. Said to

acknowledge the birthday house.

Flying around here at

the beach house. The.

Mock trial queen.

Casey is wondering that's right.

He was like a mock trial king.

I was like.

Oh. So a king can recognize a queen.

There you go. There it is. There we go.

All right. Back to it. Now, this chainsaw.

Chainsaw.

Chainsaw. She hired him to cut down

a tree that was over 15 feet tall,

he being my client. But the law

said that in order to do that,

he should have had a license and he

didn't have a license and she didn't offer

him workers' compensation insurance.

And the reason that's important is if

you're going to be doing a dangerous job,

usually you need to be offered insurance

so that if anything wrong happens,

you can be compensated. But in this case,

she didn't offer him workers'

compensation insurance.

It was a dangerous job and

he was seriously injured.

So it was an interesting case

because it was bifurcated.

We were only dealing with the issue

of liability, not with damages yet.

And so I had never put on a case like

this where we had to explain a statute to

the jury, be very clear,

not allow them to fall asleep because

they're hearing it's statutory

interpretation,

but we really had to work them through

what are each of the elements we need to

prove and what is the evidence we

have to prove it. And thankfully,

we were very successful.

TLU Hunting Beach is going to be the

greatest trial lawyers event in history.

It all starts off on Tuesday,

June 2nd with a dinner

hosted by Finch at the Lorea.

We're buying it out and the pool area

around it for our 300 of our closest

friends. Wednesday, we're

just doing workshops.

We got Ben Ravinovitz and Mike Kelly

doing expert cross. We got Philip Miller,

Ed Serenboli teaching advanced deposition,

and we got six more

workshops besides that.

But if you're not interested in

training that day, that afternoon,

you can go out with Ted B.

Wacker and go for the first

annual TLU golf tournament or

racing go- karts with Kurt

Zaner or playing pickleball

with Supio. That evening,

we got the opening party. We got the

lobby lounge at night with ping pong,

foosball, DJ and open bar. And

then Thursday, Friday and Saturday,

we got five lecture tracks,

eight workshop tracks,

full breakfast for everybody every

morning on the ocean lawn for 700

people.

Great lunches every day.

This is our fifth year at the

Puicea with the food's amazing.

Ask anybody who's got the best food

on the conference tour. It's TLU.

Then Thursday night,

we're buying out the LaRae and the tree

house above it and doing a party hosted

by Supio that's going to be at

80s tracksuit party. Friday night,

we're having the first ever satch

Oliver Wild West party Satch is

bringing 500 pounds of Angus beef.

We're going to be grilling out.

We're going to have a mechanical

bowl. It's going to be a great time.

Lots of new friends being

made. And finally on Saturday,

we're closing out the socializing

with the APRE ski adult swim pool

party. That's on Saturday night.

Finally, but that's edit though.

Sunday morning,

we're starting with connections and

a great meal and we're ending it.

Sunday morning,

we're having brunch with Scott Frost from

the Frost Law Group hosting our brunch

on Sunday morning. So we're beginning

with an ending with community and great

learning. So TLU Hunton Beach,

June 2nd through 7th. Be there.

We'll see you.

So this case was bifurcated

and you got liability,

right? So after that,

my understanding is that they settled to

the policy limits. Is that right? They.

Settled it for the 1.5 million

policy limit right after that.

So was very lucky. Very happy.

I don't luck is the right word, but

fortunate to won the trial though.

So what were your big lessons, big

takeaways from the chainsaw case?

Well,

one big takeaway that I had from the

chainsaw case was when I was doing

my cross-examination

of their main witness,

who in this case was the usual

gardener for the property.

And he tried to take the stand

and essentially perjure himself.

He tried to make up all these lies and

tried to say that everything that the

homeowner said was accurate and nothing

that my client said was accurate. Well,

instead of attacking him and attacking the

defendant, excuse me, attacking

this gardener who ultimately,

he doesn't have much stake

in this matter, right?

He's not the person who did something

wrong. He's just been dragged into this.

So I started off my

cross-examination and I said, "Sir,

are you aware that yesterday in

court the defendant testified

X?" In this case it was,

she testified that you never

cut down the tree in question.

And then I said, "But

that's not true, right,

sir? You have cut that tree down

before." And he said, "Yeah,

that's not true." And then I went through

a series of about six more lies that

the defendant, the defense attorney,

and the defense expert had given.

And so by the end,

I'm only six questions

into my cross-examination.

I've already gotten their star witness

to say that their side was lying or

misrepresenting the

truth six different ways.

And so then when we got to

the rest of his testimony,

they already were thinking maybe

we shouldn't be trusting them.

And so that was one

thing that I learned was

splitting witnesses up as

one big lesson in that trial.

And then juxtaposing them.

Exactly right. And also

using video as well.

Obviously you got to use whatever

evidence you have at your disposal.

And so in this case, we actually

had, because the trial was on CVN,

this trial,

I actually have two trials that are

on CVN that people can go and watch,

but we actually had video clips that

we were able to play from the trial.

So I played the video trip

of the trial and I said,

"This is what she said." And I said, "But

that's not true, is it? " And he said,

"No, that's not true."

And it was very powerful.

And since you've been at

my apartment during COVID,

you've been busy lately, so you haven't

been to my TLU skills bootcamps,

which is ... We're working

on that still though.

It's a problem when people are too smart.

I think they know more than they

actually do about some topics,

but that's his conversation for that.

I didn't know he was a scholarship guy,

second in his class. But

since we're here, Ryan,

and I'm going to teach you and everybody

who's going to be watching and listen

to this, this will be the first

time ever that I've done my cross

on video during a podcast.

How does that make you feel?

I love it.

Pretty excited, huh? Very excited.

Because I've given this presentation.

We're going to give it in Vegas. I

mean, not Vegas, Huntington Beach.

We don't do Vegas anymore,

but I'm also going down to Dallas

in April for this big Texas rumble.

So I'm pretty stoked about that. And

I'm doing this next week for the ... Yeah,

not next week,

the following week for the CASD on the

25th. Consumers attorneys in San Diego.

So Sarah's bringing me to teach

this cross. So here it is, Ryan.

So this out of all the things I've

ever created for trial lawyers,

I believe is the biggest ... Between this,

maybe the witness prep, but this one,

because people take a lot of

depositions and that's how they can ...

And that's where they can

practice their skills.

But here's the cross because

people study cross substantively,

but nobody ever studies cross

from a performance standpoint.

So here are the rules

of cross. Number one,

leading questions only

seems obviously. Doctor,

you're a board certified medical expert.

So one new fact per question,

become board certified.

This requires advanced education.

So we established the first

fact, then we had the next fact,

which is also called

looping. This education,

it takes place both during

medical school and after you get

out. So again, and also

cross-examining the present tense.

It takes place during, it took

place while you were in there,

but it takes place.

So that way it allows the witness to

visualize what you're talking about.

You have to visualize it

in order to communicate it

because if you can't see it,

they can't see it. If you

can't transport yourself,

you can't transport a witness

or an audience. And so,

because I've barely ever seen any

lawyer, I don't care what level they are.

The biggest names we know,

I never see anybody cross-examine

in the present tense,

but I think it makes a real game changer,

especially when you're creating space.

Trucker Tom, I want to talk to you about

when you're driving south on US 411,

so that's creating space and cross,

which is a whole nother skill.

Then we got to draft all

the taglines like right,

isn't it true, correct,

true? But if you need to use a tagline

because of the context of the statement,

to have a pause between the

statement and the tagline,

just so it just becomes uncomfortable.

But while you are in medical

school, you do take classes.

Yes.

No, you were supposed to make it

uncomfortable. See, it got uncomfortable.

Couldn't have that. I said,

true, just as nice as it can be.

And I think true should be the only

tagline because the other sounds correct,

right? They're like confidence, which is

true. Plus we're looking for the truth.

True.

And just as kindness can true to

drop all the filler words like and

so, okay, et cetera.

You can see very experienced lawyers

doing this and lawyers will do it their

whole careers. Didn't realize

they're doing it. It's so.

Frustrating to listen to.

Okay. No, it's annoying. Yeah.

And it's just like unpolished.

So we drop all those filler words.

They effectively use a flip chart.

What does that mean? That

means to write legibly.

How often do you use flip

charts in your cross?

A lot. All.

Right.

But that's a lesson I learned from you.

All right. Because if

you don't write legibly,

you won't have the confidence to do it.

Then just put one topic

per page and then-.

Which is something interesting

that you taught me,

which is even though you are writing live,

you need to prepare it ahead of time.

And so you need to have a lot

of it pre-written ahead of time.

And obviously you're going to be filling

stuff in. But when I first thought it,

I thought every page would be

blank, but you explained that no,

you're going to have it separated out

and each page is a different part of your

cross-examination, but you've

prepared it ahead of time.

Right. So for this cross, for the expert,

so the first page would be blank. The

second page has proper written across.

The third page has biased. So it

also communicates to the witness,

the court and the jury that this is

prepared. This is not extemporaneous.

This is not off the cuff.

This is a planned take down.

So let's be mindful of that. On top of,

additionally,

there are only two emotional states

in cross that dominate 99% of it,

and that is inquisitive or curiosity

when you're laying foundations

and disappointment when you're

showing bias or impeaching.

It's like, isn't it sad that you're a

doctor? It's a good oath to help people,

that you're going to hurt

people. You must feel terrible.

I feel sad for you that

you're such a sell.

And that lesson about

the disappointment is

also something you've taught me

that throughout the entire trial,

that's kind of your emotion

you want to be going with,

as opposed to being angry,

as opposed to being in ...

You want to be in control,

and that's what it is.

You're really just disappointed.

The way you described it as a

parent is just disappointed. Really,

I thought you would've done better,

which honestly affects someone way

more when they're disappointed,

as opposed to if somebody

is just mad. It's no.

Good.

Makes sense.

A couple more is pacing because

when most people do cross,

it's more of a pressure situation and

it's confrontational in their mind and

they just become aggressive.

And when we do that,

our heart beats faster and

our breathing becomes off

and we speed up because we

stop breathing properly.

And so right along with pacing and

pausing, because if you listen ...

Oh, because the next statement is,

"But while you are in medical school,

you do take classes." Yes.

One of those classes that you

take is on how to conduct a proper

medical evaluation, but

every chunk is intentional.

One of those classes,

inhale that you take,

inhale is on how to conduct inhale,

a proper medical evaluation at the

end, proper medical evaluation.

So my fingertips open towards you

and my eyebrows raised. And because

my mentor, Dave Clark, by the way,

he's teaching a dark arts class May 27th

through June 2nd. We're going to do the

beginning of the dark arts class.

Fantastic.

Right here.

I love it.

Wednesday through Sunday is going

to be here at the beach house.

And then we're going to do the

last two days at Huntington Beach.

So that way it's a little hybrid.

People get to hang out in Hermosa.

Then they get to Huntington.

I want people to have the full beach

experience because my buddy Satch Oliver

explained one time because

he's got this new ranch.

I went down there to take a look

at the thing. Awesome. It's huge.

He's got a train trip goes

through it. He's got caves on it.

A river runs through it.

He's got lots of buildings going up to

have people come because he's going to do

his depositions or trial there and have

other events there. But I was like,

I kind of like to do my program.

He goes, Dan, it's not your brand.

It's like your brand is Vegas or beach.

When he said that, I was like,

it's not Vegas. I'm a beach guy. There.

It is.

That's when I said, I got

to get back to the beach.

Let's do it.

I'm a beach guy. Why am I living in Vegas?

I'm a beach guy. So right from there,

I said I had to go find a house on

the beach. So that changed a lot.

But cross-examination though. So those

are really the also bringing the jury in.

You have something that

you want to stand out,

then you turn to the jury and

it's like, bring them in. And so

those are really the core skills.

So this is what it looks like.

So we teach it one chunk at a time,

so that way when we're training it,

people practice on

their own ahead of time.

I can go over and explain all this stuff

I'm about to explain to you right now

or just subduring. But also they have

to videotape themselves doing it,

which of course is difficult.

But most people are really

rough on those first videos,

but it's the beginning of carbon these

new neural pathways. It's like a baby

learning to walk. There's a lot of

falling, but without the falling,

the baby doesn't learn to walk.

It's just part of the process.

And so the challenge is mastering these

skills that sound like Dave Clark is

about making the unconscious

conscious. So the one thing I say is,

as soon as I say doctor, my face

goes from neutral to inquisitive.

I'm so interested because

remember the jury's watching this.

And so if I'm interested,

they're going to be interested because

they have these things called mirror

neurons in their faces. And so when I

go, "Huh?" Their faces do the same thing.

So we unconsciously become

more interested. So this

is the cross. You ready?

It's going to change so much for you,

Ryan. You're going to be so excited off.

Doctor, you're a board

certified medical expert.

Yes.

Oh, don't answer every time though.

Just so you know, one out of four,

one out of five times, don't answer. So

that way we can demonstrate that long,

uncomfortable silence.

Got it.

And also in training, it

teaches this person to listen.

Otherwise,

you stop listening because you got your

own shit and that happens in trial too,

because they stop listening.

Okay. Become board certified.

This requires advanced education.

Yes.

This education, it takes place

both during medical school

and after you get out.

Yes.

But while you are in medical

school, you do take classes.

Yes.

One of the classes that you take

is on how to conduct a proper

medical evaluation. True.

True. So that's segment

one. And so that lays down,

it's like a foundation.

So it starts with the basic rules there.

And then of course we have

our flip chart right here. Oh,

and then also notice that my hand

comes up with the first word. Doc,

it moves only when I talk. And

when I pause the inhale, it stops.

And at the end, it always pops

out and my eyebrows raised.

So this takes a little bit of practice

to be able to coordinate all that stuff.

When people start doing it, they look

really weird. And some people are like,

"Oh, this feels so weird."

I'm like, "No shit.

Something you're doing for the very

first time, it feels weird. Oh,

I'm so sorry. Everything's not so

easy for you. " Practice, right?

People don't want to practice. So anyways,

that's segment one. Here's segue two.

Doctor,

you're trained that a

proper medical evaluation,

it must be impartial.

Yes.

So now I got my blank sheet here. So I

flip it over. So makes a lot of noise.

And then it says proper. So it tells

everybody this shit ain't extemporaneous.

I thought this through.

And I write number one and

I write impartial in capital

letters and I space it

so it takes the entire piece of the

page and it's level because I practice.

Then I read number two underneath it,

causing curiosity for the jury like

what's coming next by space it so that I

have two and three. So that way

everything's separated one topic per page.

Doctor, by impartial,

what we mean is that you're not

an advocate for either side.

True.

I say what we mean,

what you and I mean in the context

of a jury trial of an expert witness

and a trial lawyer. And remember,

you get to define these things.

As long as they're logical, who can

argue with that, right? So doctor,

you're trained that a proper

medical evaluation must not only be

impartial. They look at,

that's called glance control,

but it must also be objective.

Yes.

So I write down number two, objective,

and I put number three. And remember,

when we write on this flip chart, we're

standing in front of it basically,

so the jury can't see it.

And so they just stare at it

wondering what we're writing.

And so what it does is it really

induces great focus on their part and

curiosity. And then when you step

back and it says objective, like, "Oh,

I thought it was going to say objective.

I'm right." So we write objective

and then put number three.

And of course we use parallel structure,

so we're going to define objective.

By objective,

what we mean is that you

don't cherry pick the evidence

to support a desired opinion.

True.

And so we also know the mind

can't process a negative, right?

So I say you're not an advocate. They

have to picture him being an advocate.

So you don't cherry pick the

evidence. In order to understand it,

they have to picture them cherry

picking evidence. If I say,

"Don't think of a purple elephant."

Whatever you don't think of a purple

elephant with a little pink tutu on.

You can't understand the question

without thinking about it, right?

That's the power of rhetoric

and a negative. And then

doctor,

you're trained that a proper

medical evaluation must not only be

impartial and objective, but

it must also be complete.

Yes.

So I write down complete. By complete,

what we mean is that you

consider all relevant

information.

Yes.

We're starting off the summer right,

May 8th and 9th in Hermosa Beach,

California at the TLU Beach House.

We're doing a two-day witness prep

and direct examination workshop.

You will learn how to prepare your

clients so they just don't remember their

stories, but they relive them.

And then we transition that to direct

examination so the jury just doesn't hear

the story, but they relive them, they

experience them, they witness them.

We'll see you there.

So in your entire career,

how many defense experts,

based upon these definitions, would

you ever say were impartial, objective,

and complete? None. Zero, right?

Right.

So they're lying right through their

teeth right at the beginning. But

the great thing is that they know it,

but that's where the cortisol starts

to rise. So this is segment three.

Doctor, the opposite of a

proper medical evaluation,

one that's impartial,

objective, and complete. Well,

that would be a biased medical evaluation.

True.

So I flipped a page over

and it says biased. Doctor,

you're trained and you know

that there are certain risks

associated with a paid

expert's choice to conduct

a biased medical evaluation. True.

One of those risks is that the jury

could be misled

about the patient's condition.

Yes.

Oh, I made a mistake.

One of those risks is that the jury

could be misinformed about the patient's

condition.

Yes.

So I write number one, misinformed.

And I put number two out

of curiosity. Doctor,

you're trained and you know.

So I say you're trained and you

know that's an example of stepping.

So if you're trained and you know

this, well, if you don't do it,

it's because you chose not to. You

can't say, "I just made a mistake.".

Sure. And.

Part of this cross builds the expert

because it came from the cross of a

cop about the investment because

people give doctors and cops so much

credibility because they think

other persons, first of all,

they keep us safe and they

got no skin in the game.

So in order to impeach them well, we

have to raise a real high pedestal.

So doctor,

you're trained and you know that

if a paid expert chooses to conduct

a biased medical evaluation,

not only could the jury be misinformed

about the patient's condition,

but they could also be misled

as to the extent of the

patient's injuries.

Sure, that could happen.

So under two, misled,

and then number three.

So misled is being worse than misinformed.

If you believe somebody's

previously misinformed,

you more likely believe they

would mislead you, right? Doctor,

you're trained and you know

that if a paid expert chooses,

I'll just call you a paid expert

for the third time in a row,

to conduct a biased medical evaluation,

not only could our jury be misinformed

about the patient's condition

and misled at the extent of the patient's

injuries, but perhaps worst of all,

they could be deceived into

undervaluing the human harms

and suffering that were caused.

Yes. So.

That's the only time I really changed

my emotional state like, "This is bad.

It's real bad. I mean, this is

really bad." So that's segment three.

So your segment four. Doctor, let me

ask you this question. On December 14th,

2022, you had a choice

to make. So tell us all,

what did you choose to do?

I did a thorough examination.

So you did a ... But in

training, just because ...

So the doctor says,

"I don't know what you mean." Because

it's like a purposely ambiguous question

that any expert that's getting paid what

these guys charge is going to be like,

"I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not going to guess." So he says,

"What do you mean? Then you can practice

spontaneous looping." What I mean is,

did you choose to do a

proper medical evaluation,

then you could flip the page

back. So it draws attention,

one that was impartial, objective, and

complete, like you were trained to do,

or did you choose to

violate your training?

Conduct a biased evaluation,

knowing that I flipped the page,

knowing all the risks.

I would still say that

I did a thorough job.

So- For.

Proper examination.

Proper? Proper.

So what you're telling this jury under

oath is that the investigation you did

for this case was ... I

flipped the page back over,

so it makes the noise again. Impartial,

objective, and complete. Yes.

Just like you were trained to do.

Yes.

So that when I say proper, like, boy,

I just gave you your last out and you're

still going to continue with this lie,

proper disbelief. So that's the cross.

I like it.

Because it teaches all the skills, but

that's why it's a lot of repetition.

So when we're training it, we

just do train one chunk at a time

Because that cross could be

changed or adjusted to any cross.

So say it was a biomechanics expert. Well,

impartial objective and complete

would all be the same, right?

But more of the risk that the jury

could be misinformed about the forces

involved.

They can be misled about the potential

for injury and they could be deceived and

undervalued the human harms and suffering

that were caused. Yep. So you see,

we call that a foundational

cross. And a lot of people,

they want to go right into

the impeachments without

laying foundations that make

the impeachments that much

more powerful. Totally.

Agree.

So there was your cross there. It

was yours. And all the people who ...

When somebody says ... I listen to

your podcast all the time. I'm like,

thank you so much. I really

appreciate that. There it is.

It takes a fair amount of work

to do these things and stuff.

Nobody's getting a benefit from it.

So the more people getting a benefit,

the happier I feel.

So I hope people get a benefit from that

chunk across the end of trial lessons.

So moving forward, now

you're on your own with your

family, the Medler Firm.

That's right. Meder Law.

Firm. The Medler Law Firm. So how

... It's only been a few months.

So what are the first few months

been like working with mom and dad?

That'd be great. Living the dream.

I moved down to Newport and

that's where our new office is.

And I get to go into work every day

and work with the best lawyers I know.

That's so cute that you think your mom

and dad are the best lawyers you know.

You should believe the best thing to do.

I do. I know. I legitimately do that.

Yeah, I believe your wife,

your girlfriend's the most

beautiful person in the

whole world and your children

are the smartest best things ever. That's.

Right.

That is so cute, Ryan.

I would not have joined up

with them if I didn't think.

All right.

And we're already killing it.

We've already settled millions of dollars

in our first few months doing this.

And we have already been

signing up lots of great cases.

I'm looking forward to

signing up many more. I.

Bet you.

Are going forward.

Kind of need those.

Don't you? Yeah, you kind.

Do. Kind of need cases.

You can be a.

Grace Traveler. I used to be a

house painter and I'd be like,

I could be the greatest

house prayer in the world.

But if I don't have a

contract, we're shit.

There it is.

So you don't have a case to

try? I mean, we're shit, buddy.

That's it. And that's a good

point about cases to try.

We're taking on all types of referrals,

but what's exciting that

I'm really focusing on are

cases that are in litigation

and cases with upcoming trials.

So I've been brought in on cases that

have a trial in less than a week.

I've been brought in on

cases where there's a trial

in a month and we have to do

expert depositions. And so there's no

such thing as calling me in too late.

I'm always willing to jump

in on cases. And yeah,

so far it's been going fantastic.

That's great. And

now that you've got your own firm

there and you've got some street chops,

you get to not only attend Trial Region

University this year and host a track

because people don't even know.

We're talking about your

dancing skills in a minute,

but that just gives you a

lot of presence on the stage.

So we're always honored

that people are like,

"How much do you pay Medley

to host that? " I'm like,

"He doesn't even charge me. No

fucking way." I'm like, "Yeah. Wow,

what a nice guy because he's like a

professional host. I know. " Of course.

I'm so thrilled, so thrilled.

So you're going to be teaching

at TAU Beach this year.

And so you have one lecture

on our case analysis track.

What's that lecture going to be about?

It's about how to properly prepare for

trial. So it's going to be about ... Oh,

I'm sorry, on the case analysis.

On the case analysis route,

I'm going to be talking about

one of my big results. That's.

What case analysis.

About. I apologize.

Your biggest result, right?

I'm doing-.

No, the chainsaw case.

The chainsaw case. So

not my biggest result,

but a result that because

it was done on CBN,

I'm going to have a lot of video that

I'm going to be able to show people.

And I do think there were a lot of

good lessons from that trial. So yeah,

we're going to be teaching that

case, which actually- Ryan and I are.

Going to be reading that tape so he can

point out to everybody where he's going

to perform better.

Yes. Can't wait.

Yeah, I know. He loves

coaching. A lot of being told.

But I'm also going to be doing a

workshop. Well, and the workshop- What's.

The workshop about?

That's about how to properly prepare

for trial. So for people- What do you.

Know about proper

preparing for trial? Well.

What's exciting is that in addition to

doing this trial work and working at the

Mether Law Firm,

another thing that I've been doing and

I'm going to be continuing doing going

forward is consulting work where I come

into firms and I teach them everybody.

We're talking case managers,

paralegals, attorneys, everybody.

How do you prepare for trial?

And so what the program at TLU is

going to be is another version of that.

We're going to be teaching people what

are the motions in limine you should be

filing? How do you make a PowerPoint?

How do you edit video clips?

What are the sorts of

depositions you should be taking?

How should you be lining up all your

testimony, your stories, everything?

It's going to be a crash course

and how do we get ready for trial?

And I think it's going to be

very beneficial for anybody

who has a trial coming

up who might not have any experience.

Look, there's

lots of trial and lawyers out there who

just haven't had that experience yet.

And so I think that this will be getting

into the weeds and really getting a lot

of people ready to go for that first shot.

I'm Orlando De Castroverde.

I've been a subscriber to TLU

On Demand ever since the start.

Anytime I listen to a particular episode

that's relevant to a case that I'm

working on right away, I'm sharing

it with my team saying, "Hey,

you got to listen to this.

" If you want to be the best

trial lawyer that you can be,

sign up for TLU on demand today.

That's great. And for

everybody who doesn't know,

when we do workshops and

people like Ryan B. Workshops,

every instructor that

teaches a workshop at TLU,

it's required to have at least two Zoom

meetups with their class ahead of time

so they can go over what they're going

to be teaching, lay a little foundation,

a little roadmap,

but also so everybody can get to

meet each other because if you go to

conferences where I didn't know a lot of

people and I don't have nearly as much

fun as I go to a conference when I

feel like I know everybody like at TLU,

that's why I try to call everybody so I

can chat with them on the phone a little

bit.

It's a little easier to do right now

than in April and May when it's like

a lot more registration. If people are

like, "I'm getting around to it. ".

I'm excited. So whoever's

signing up for my workshop,

you can send me your case file

ahead of time. I'll go through it.

So by the time we get there and we're

live, all of us can be working together.

And obviously I'm going to be leading

the session, but we're all in together.

I learned just as much from you

all as I will take back from it.

And so it's going to be great. We're

going to be very much working together,

like you said, as friends and-.

Right.

And our friends at Finch are

hosting a dinner for 300 of

my closest friends out in the Lorae

restaurant, which is the restaurant,

the hotel, and the pool

area. And earlier that day,

Ed Sarinbully's got a surf camp and

Supiel's taking people out to play

pickleball.

Oh, let's.

Go. I know. On Wednesday,

we got Zaner doing,

maybe besides all the five lecture

tracks and the seven workshop tracks,

got Zeiner on Wednesday

with his go- kart race.

It took like 30 people to do that

last year. They had a great time.

We have a golf outing this year.

Of course we do.

Ted Wacker is best hosting the golf.

He is such a great guy. Golf outing,

then we got pickleball again on

Wednesday and then opening party

Wednesday night. So we've got that.

And then And what else has been different

this year is going to be using the

restaurants of the hotel, like

on Thursday night's party,

both the main restaurant

and the tree house upstairs.

We got them both bought out.

Can't beat it.

So we got plenty of room for

our friends to indoor outdoors,

so it won't get as cold. This got kind

of cool. Although it's unseasonably hot,

apparently a heat wave's

coming to Southern California.

So we appreciate that.

We appreciate that. So Ryan, on top

of being an upcoming trial lawyer,

you're also recognized for your dancing

skills. Tell us how did that come about?

They're all dying to know.

Well, it goes back to my

club days, believe it or not.

When I started working at the nightclub,

I thought that I was quite a good dancer,

but my dance moves were kind of

limited to the, what do they call that?

The fist bump in there. It was not-.

And the sprinkler.

Yeah, the sprinkler, exactly.

Had a coworker and she said,

"Dancing's in your hips.

It's all in your hips." And she kind

of taught me some of my moves. But yes,

I like dancing and I like

having fun. And so as you know,

just like you have fun parties,

I've had several fun parties the past

few years to get those dance moves out.

But what's always-.

You have parties just

so you can dance, Ryan.

I have conferences so I can speak

at it. Yes. People are like,

"It's okay." I'm with the Trial

Lawyers College for 12 years and people

are like, "You're not instructed

that? " I'm like, "Nope.

I'm just like the world's

greatest students." There it is.

But then I had to quit and start my

own thing so I could be the instructor.

That's it. Well, yes,

I do my conferences or I do my

parties secretly so that I can dance.

But also I always want to make sure

that whenever I do something that we're

raising money for an important cause.

So when I had my New Year's party,

we raised a lot of money

for the CAOC cause.

The Uber initiative last year

when I had my Super Bowl party,

we raised a lot of money for the fires

and for all the ongoing trauma that

was going on with everyone for

that situation. And so yeah,

I try and put on fun events,

but we always make sure that we're

doing it with a bigger purpose in mind.

Right. It's because of this Uber

initiative. It's a real cataclysmic event.

It is. This is

a earth shattering event because in case

anybody doesn't know what your friends

at Uber, we recommend you delete the app.

It's trying to limit recoveries

in California so that the "victim"

victim bill of rights gets 75%,

at least 25% for the doctors,

the case expenses and the lawyers,

which means that basically anything

less than a million dollars wouldn't be

tenable,

but that might not even be tenable.

And I know that you raised a significant

amount of money. I think it was what,

$80,000 from your party for that.

And we just did an event that Nick

Raleigh's place out in Big Sky and we

raised $54,000 from that

for the Uber initiative.

And a lot of people have chipped in

a lot of money and it's really like a

national cause. And so

for my bootcamps I'm doing

this year, a lot of them,

I'm giving the tuition to the

Uber defense and hopefully raising

a couple hundred thousand for years up

and we beat this thing and we continue to

have it because California looked very

different. If we got no more cases,

that'd be devastating for us all.

It will,

but I'm confident that we're going to

bond together and we're going to win this.

All right. Sounds great. Ryan,

I'm so glad that you could be the

first guest at the new TLU Beach

House.

Thank you. It's been an

honor. Thank you, Dan.

All right, Ryan.

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