This episode of The Grit Show is a heartfelt conversation between Shawna Rodrigues and Danielle Ralston that addresses the unique challenges women face with ADHD and societal expectations. The episode covers everything from the lost art of sisterhood in traditional roles to the misconceptions about ADHD in women. Danielle demystifies the condition, emphasizing how it can be a superpower with the right support. Hear about low-cost coaching options, practical journaling, and the significance of community in overcoming mental exhaustion and shame. Shawna shares her own struggles, inviting listeners to think critically about their own support systems. Perfect for anyone feeling the weight of unrealistic societal pressures, this episode offers solidarity and actionable advice.

Other resources referenced in this conversation:

Amplify your Uniqueness and Flaunt your Weakness w/ David Rendall -17

On this episode we talked about turning anything into a sticky note… isn’t that fun? I had no idea before our conversation. Here’s the link to repositionable tape and here’s the link to some washable glue sticks. You can try them out on this daily planning pad (link - https://amzn.to/3Yal5MX) and add it to your bullet journal (I use these simple notebooks https://amzn.to/3Y8jBTi). Each of these links are for Amazon and if you purchase something you’ll be supporting this podcast as we may get a small commission (though feel free to search and find what is best for you).

How to Connect with Danielle:

https://neurodivergentoutloud.com/

Email: danielle@theoriginaladhdcoach.com

Intagram: @NDoutloud

Podcast: ND Out Loud

Shawna Rodrigues left her award-winning career in the public sector in 2019 and after launching The Grit Show, soon learned the abysmal fact that women hosted only 27% of podcasts. This led to the founding of the Authentic Connections Podcast Network intent on raising that number by 10% in five years- 37 by 27. Because really, shouldn’t it be closer to 50%? She is the Director of Impact for the network, which offers full-service support for podcasting from mentoring to production. In September 2023 they are also launching the EPAC (Entrepreneurs and Podcasters Authentically Connected) community for those in early stages and wanting a place for weekly connection. She still finds a little time for her pursuits as a best-selling author and shares the hosting of Author Express, a podcast that features the voice behind the pages of your favorite book. Find her on Instagram- @ShawnaPodcasts and learn more about the network and other happenings at https://linktr.ee/37by27.

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ADHD is a term we're all familiar with, but most of the time we picture a young boy having a hard time being confined to a chair in a classroom. Today on The Grit Show, we get to meet with Danielle, The Original ADHD Coach, who will help broaden our view and perspective on ADHD and the fact it isn't just about hyperactivity, especially in women. Join us to learn how recognizing neurodivergence can transform it from a hurdle into a superpower, especially with the right tools, which we will discuss. From financial management to the struggle to get a diagnosis and support to simply trying to organize your day. We touch on a lot, whether you're navigating an ADHD diagnosis yourself, supporting someone who is, or simply curious. Join us as we offer insights, practical tips and a whole lot of encouragement. I'm so glad you're here today. Welcome to The Grit Show, where our focus is growth on purpose.

I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues and I'm honored to be part of this community as we journey together with our grit intact to learn more about how to thrive and how to get the most out of life. It means a lot that you are here today. As you listen, I encourage you to think of who may appreciate the tidbits of knowledge we are sharing and to take a moment to pass this along to them. Everyone appreciates a friend that thinks of them, and these conversations are meant to be shared and to spark even more connections. Danielle understands the science of how our brains work because she wasn't going to let ADHD run her life and hold her back from being remarkable. She continues to train and certify in new protocols for the ADHD brain so that she can offer her clients the best support possible as science catches up to coaching. She has multiple certifications and has been an ADHD coach for over 25 years. She has worked with over 15 ADHD, ASD and divergent brains between the ages of ten to 70.

We have her full bio in the show notes so you can learn a little bit more about her. She even has a podcast and she has a great community you'll also learn about. But I am so excited for our conversation. Thank you so much for being here today Danielle.

Thank you for having me here. I'm so excited to talk more with you. Yes, we've talked for quite a while before you even started the recording, so.

I know Danielle is full of wisdom and her and I just couldn't stop chatting about all the beautiful things that she knows. So I'm excited for us to bring it to everyone that is listening today so that you guys can get a little bit more of this knowledge. Because ADHD, I think everyone knows someone even if they aren't struggling within themselves. And I think a lot of our listeners and people listening to this episode probably have a lot they want to learn about this today. So I'm very excited for you to be here. What is the biggest thing that you see your clients and individuals with ADHD struggling with and trying to navigate right now?

They're overwhelmed, they're exhausted, they're burnt out or quickly hitting burn out and they don't know how to not do everything.

Yeah, I'm sure some real estate. That sounds like me too. Yes, yes. That makes really good sense. But that's what you're seeing a lot with your clients, right? Yeah.

Well, and that's where clients always come to us. They're overwhelmed. They're exhausted. They have so many things to do that they can't get anything done some days or they're doing a million things but they never seem to finish or actually complete anything. Or like there's a 9000 varieties and then they have kids that they're supposed to be adulting and taking care of and then they have a spouse and then they have the job or their business and there's just all of these things. There's too much and they don't know how to navigate. Asking for the correct kind of help.

Asking for and then finding like those are two big things. So what is your first step when somebody comes to you that has that presentation?

First, let's breathe.

Start with the basics.

Start with the real basics. And why do I start with breathing? Because one good oxygen levels will decrease your overwhelm and your frustration and your agitation. So let's breathe first. And if you have a neurodivergent brain or an exhausted mom brain, then you're holding your breath a lot, you're tense, you're frustrated, you're like literally balled up in a ball. And all your muscles are. By teaching a client to breathe properly and learn how to stop and recognize that they need to take deep breaths and relax the muscles across their back and their shoulders, it decreases everybody's overwhelm by a minimum of 10%. Like that.

That's amazing. So we can start with just the simple basics that works for everyone, including especially somebody who has ADHD. And I'm pretty sure that that's such a common term. I feel like most people know what ADHD stands for, but it stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. And it's been more recently shortened to just add correct because they've kind of taken the hyperactivity out of it. Or what are your thoughts on that?

I'm going to tell you that the name is wrong unless you are a five year old little boy who can't sit still in your seat. ADHD is not right because hyperactivity. Everybody pictures that five year old little boy in the back of the class who's the class clown and sitting upside down in his chair and throwing things. That's who everybody pictures when you hear the word hyperactivity. And that's not true, especially with women. Women, we tend to be very overly involved and overly connected with every single sensation, noise thing that we have to do. All of the thoughts in our head, which are various and huge and constant and crazy and chaotic, I think I hit all of them and it's not. That's what we are, especially as women, we are chaotic.

Our brains do 900,000 more steps a day than the rest of our body does, and our body is exhausted because of it.

Yes. Which leads to the burnout. Right. They all go hand in hand. And so sometimes having all those letters spelled out is more of a misnomer and has people feel like it doesn't apply to them and not understand where the connections are with it.

Well, and it comes into getting diagnosed properly, too. Yes, unfortunately, and we were talking about this earlier before we started recording doctors, they don't understand how to actually diagnose ADHD. They're looking at this old, and when I say old, 40 to 50 year old diagnostic criteria that no longer is true and honestly wasn't true then, which is why so many of us women are getting late diagnosed because they missed. They tested five year old little boys and decided what the diagnostic gnostic criteria was for a hyperactive five year old little boy. They weren't looking at that highly anxious, overachieving, extremely intelligent little girl who was in the gifted program in the back of the room and going, oh, she's ADHD too.

Yes. And that's like an entire generation of women that was missed. And we have a lot of medical providers, which was a lot of the conversation that Danielle and I had beforehand was my journey to my diagnosis and continued struggles with getting treatment and support around my diagnosis because I was only diagnosed a couple of years ago and I was diagnosed, and then they took away my diagnosis because they made me go through a different gauntlet to be diagnosed. And for me, one of the challenges of it, as I see in other family members that I have that are also adults and recognize that it was so hard for me to get diagnosed and, like, my ability to go through that process, like, I just want to throw down, say, forget it, I don't need this diagnosis. And they would even say to me like, well, what are you going to do if you don't get this diagnosis? I'm like, it's not about the diagnosis. It's about, I had the diagnosis and I had a treatment and it worked. Things aren't working. So find a different diagnosis or find a different way to treat and make things work.

Are you caring? Are you, like, my medical community caring about me? Or are you just trying to patronize me? Because right now, that's all you're doing. Which they then put in the notes about how difficult I was.

Oppositional defiant disorder. No, ADHD. Yeah.

Yes, exactly. And so how hard it was for me to get that diagnosis. And I did do the gauntlet and did their tests that were meant for, for males of a certain age. Like, whatever else, I had to have proof for my childhood to show that I would be seen as that. And luckily I had, oh, what was it? I did have issues with my driver's license and stuff when I was young enough that would qualify in certain categories. Like, it was so interesting, like, what you had to qualify on. And I still don't understand because obviously it's behind the curtain of what actually qualified me to be seen. And I barely qualified.

They made sure I knew that I barely qualified. But, like, what does it matter? That was, like, their ego to be like, the reason we questioned you so much is because you barely qualified.

Those not on the podcast watching this, I would roll my eyes if I rolled my eyes any harder, they might fall on my head because I hear this so much. Often working with women. I mean, they're treated like drug seeking addicts.

Yes.

And did you know someone on ADHD medication is less likely to be taking drugs? Not more likely. And there's some new studies out there that are saying 80% to 90% of drug addicts are ADHD or neurodivergent. And they're doing this to self medicate.

Yes, I believe that 100%. I believe that 100%.

Give them their medication, make it easy, make it remove the barriers. And unfortunately, they're just adding barriers day by day to those of us that need the medication. And especially if you're a female.

Yes. Judgment and shame. And when you go to talk to them, like, oh, you just saw some video, you just heard something and you just think you're this. And like I said to them, I said, I don't care what you call this. I just know that when I was diagnosed and when I did receive treatment, I was doing much better. And currently I'm not functioning. And I would send, like, the notes of, like, this is all the things that are happening, like, now that I'm whatever else, so let's do something. And they just weren't doing anything.

But it's interesting how little that they see that and, yeah, they make you the problem and it, and it sets you up. Like, you have challenges seeking supports and seeking help, like you said, like, it's hard for people to be seeking help when they've treated that way, when they have tried to seek help.

Yeah, it is. And so the second thing that I talk to everyone that I work with is how can we support you to overcome all of the barriers put in your way for if you're in the process of getting diagnosed, if you have to get medical, refill your medicine refills, all of those things, because all of them are very difficult when you're on the spectrum and d spectrum, neurodivergent spectrum, every executive functioning skills, making doctor's appointments, time management, planning, remembering that, oh, my gosh, I have to refill this. I'm supposed to do it 30 days ahead. And, you know, whatever that is, whatever those processes and executive function process. So how can I, as your coach, support you in those processes? And often it's learning to staff your executive dysfunction and staffing executive dysfunction can be as simple as, I never get my floors vacuumed and my floors are disgusting. Buy robot vacuum and map that out. You'll get a dopamine hit buying it. You'll get a dopamine hit programming it and following it around.

Put eyes on it, put eyelashes on it, find your stickers, do whatever you want to it, and then never worry about it again.

Yes. So find those things that is staffing your executive dysfunction.

Order your groceries and have them delivered to your house. Hire a VA to order your groceries and have them come to your house. Like, how can you do these things? And before anybody has a fit, they're like, I can't afford those things. You would be surprised. You don't order your groceries and you have to go out and order dinner. You probably pay for 1 hour of a VA to help you meal plan, order your groceries and get them to your house. You probably would pay less for a.

Va to do it.

Or your coach. This is one of the things that I offer as a coach, I will do some of those things. Well, I will have my va do some of those things for you because I also don't do those things. But it's cheaper to hire me to do that than to order takeout twice a week.

Yeah, and that's the thing, is doing the math, even to figure out where those things are happening is something you.

Don'T have, that you don't have executive function skills for. And we often don't see it. I mean, I do this for a living, and I have a coach because I don't see that in my own life at all. And that's normal, whether you're neurodivergent or not, to see the gaps in your life.

Yes.

Things that could be easier. We get stuck in our own habits and systems and stuff like that, and we don't realize that there are easier ways to make life happen.

I think that that applies to everybody, all humans, all human.

Right.

Like, people don't realize the values of a coach or a therapist, depending on where you're at and what you need. They don't realize that the value is that you aren't meant to be able to see everything about yourself. You know, you can hold up a mirror, but you can't see everything. So.

Yeah, and I think as women, we've been sold a bill of goods that we're supposed to do all of these things. I mean, I don't think. I know that we have been sold the bill of goods, and we've also been sold the little tiny mice that are going to come into your house and clean it and stuff for you. There's no in between. We were sold the fairy tale from Disney as young children. Don't get me started on the damage that that does. And then we're sold this other very traditional way of having a family and a life and being a mom or whether you're single or not. Yeah.

That we're supposed to live as women, and all of it's wrong. None of it is correct, because we are supposed to live in a tribe with support for our weaknesses, and we, as women are generally afraid to ask for that help.

And that is such a good point. Like, if we go back to traditional ways of women's roles, traditionally, I would have a grandmother and a mother and a cousin and a sister, and one of them would be really good at cooking, and one of them would like cleaning, and one of them would be doing this part, and I would be doing this part, and they'd be doing this part and we would be like, splitting the roles in ways that perhaps society and men didn't necessarily see. And I think that, like, I read the red tent, like, forever ago, and I think I love that about the red tent of part of that scene, like how that actually worked when the. It was very oppressive society still. And things about I didn't like. But understanding that there was this element of this sisterhood and womanhood that we don't have in our current culture, as well as still having these expectations, I.

Think something that is really hard to get women to accept and understand is there are parts of that traditional lifestyle. The Amish, we look at the Amish's modern women and go, that is oppressive and that is horrible. I have some amish friends, and let me tell you, those women, for the most part, there are things that are bad and there are things that are. But you want to know what? I have the same thing. So let's not. We don't live a fairy tale life.

Yes.

Compared to them, yes, they have their community. One women woman bakes all of the bread for their whole entire community every week. Another woman does all of the roasts for the week. Somebody else only raises chickens and does the eggs. Somebody else raises all the peaches and does all of the canning for the peaches. Somebody else, like, they divide and conquer.

Yes.

And I have had an amish client, and yes, they do hire coaches and stuff. Believe it or not, the things that they struggle with are not executive function things at all, because that is built into the very core of their lifestyle is there aren't executive function problems. Now, I take that to somebody who has a full time job or has a business, which is more than a full time job, and anybody that tells you being an entrepreneur is all about freedom and easy is bullshitting you.

Danny, stop for a minute. Can we clap? Can we clap? Because as somebody who is an entrepreneur, who works with entrepreneurs and podcasters and everything else, like, I do understand that there is, like an element and a place where things have flow and you can kind of have this ability to design your life, and there is this goal to do that. But it is hard being an entrepreneur, and there's a lot of elements to it. And I just think we need to have that balance of understanding. Like, you can get to that point. There are elements of that point that you can build into it, but it is hard. And so I think that people need to have that perspective as well, and understanding, too.

So I talk. I work with ADHD entrepreneurs. I have a whole entire group of them. And I tell them, somebody sold me the six figure business owner lie all of the time. I tell them I'm like, my taxes. Every 90 days I have to do taxes. When I didn't earn this much, I could do them once a year, and it was fine and it was easy, and I could do that 1040 easy for them thingy. Now it takes me like 20 hours every 90 days to do my taxes.

Who said this was easy? And no, I don't have a Ferrari, and I don't sit on a beach working for my laptop. I wish I could, but there's not enough time in the day for that. So I joke about that. But we've been sold that even in the working. If you have an outside corporate job and working for somebody else, we've been sold that there's this lifestyle that we're supposed to live. So we're always feeling shame and frustration and anxiety and burning out and overwhelm that we haven't reached it.

Well, I think that shame and frustration because even as you were talking, because I do. I have a lovely person. I finally found. It took a while to find a person that comes twice a month, approximately, to clean our house. And part of it is because I have ADHD and I'm trying to run a business, and I only have so much capacity, and that's one thing that needs to go. Otherwise, I'm feeling guilty all the time about the condition of my house and that I don't have the energy and the time left to take care of it, but also because I love my partner to death, but his standards on things aren't the same as mine. And he does help out, but, like, to that extent, it still falls a lot on me. And I think a lot of women, that's the case.

Even we do have helpful partners. He does cook, he does a lot of other things, but it's just so much easier.

There's usually more mental exhaustion that women feel over those things. Even if you do have. And I have to say, I'm very blessed. I have an amazing partner, my husband. We've been married 30 years, and he. He will chip in and do anything, but I always have to ask and I have to remind him, and I have to tell him to do it, and I have to give him the direction on how to do it. So it's my mental fatigue that goes into. I mean, I can ask him to do anything and he will always do it.

Yes, yes.

That is not the thing. But my mental fatigue is still there.

Yeah. And I just have to send it out and schedule and she takes care of it and does a great job and it's one less thing that I have to take care of. And I love that and it's wonderful and it's such a gift to me that that's something that is done. And it's so interesting because I have. We had friends that came to visit and I didn't want to say and watch myself same that they just came and they just cleaned. And I'm so glad I have somebody to clean because I feel guilty that I'm not taking care of my house and I'm not cleaning my house and I'm not doing this. And we don't have like extensive amounts of money. It really is like a stretch to make that happen.

But what it does for my mental well being and everything else that we have, this just checked off the list. That is something not to worry about that I don't have to figure out and ask for help with or take care of or whatever else that that happens twice a month. And it's very cute because I was out of town before she came this last time and he did the cause. It does take like 2 hours of work before she comes to like get things cleared off and get things cleaned up so she can clean. But there's this guilt and shame that I have somebody that comes to clean my house instead of me being able to say like I am so fortunate and I prioritize this and it's such a gift for me. And I'm so glad that I have this and so grateful that I have this. That there's this guilt and shame that even when we have something that really helps us with because we have ADHD or not, that we have the supports that we need, that we find this is something I need and I'm going to make this happen for me, that instead we have this level of guilt and shame because we're supposed to do it all and we're supposed to take care of everything well and we're supposed.

To know how to do it all and we're supposed to do it right and perfect every single time. And that's B's. And going through that process and teaching women and even some of my male clients too, women, it's a longer process that having support and having help empowers you to be a better version of yourself. And our group program is called ADHD Upgrade Academy because you can upgrade your ADHD. And ADHD can be a superpower if you have the right scaffolding and support around yourself.

Yes.

So one of the best illustrations I have for this. And I'm going to show Shannon or Shawna, excuse me, what I'm talking about, but I'll explain this to you. So Iron man and I have Iron man and Captain America on my desk and the Hulk all have superpowers. They are superheroes. But I will tell you, Iron man is the, well, he is also neurodivergent in ADHD. There's absolutely zero doubt that Iron man is ADHD. Hello. Because nobody gets that intelligent without neurodivergence.

Yeah.

So I want to. I want you to hear what I just said. Nobody is that intelligent without neurodivergence. Neurodivergence is the superpower. When you learn to support yourself.

Yes.

Tony Stark, on his own is just a guy. He's not going to do nothing. When he puts this support system of a suit around himself, he becomes a superhero.

Yes.

When you're ADHD, you're just ADHD. Without support system, you're just ADHD, which means chaos and annoying. And Pepper Potts wants to kill him at all times because he's obnoxious and annoying and all of the things.

Yes.

When he puts that suit on and he has the scaffolding in the support system around every single area of his body.

Yes.

He becomes a superhero.

No. That's such a valuable way to look at it. Yes, exactly.

So when you're ADHD, when you have support, it can become your superpower. Is it a superpower every single moment of the day? No, no. I just said I have a coach and I have, like, I have the support systems I need and I still have chaos. I was cleaning up my chaos before we got on here just because I had junk everywhere, because I was journaling earlier and we aren't perfect. Don't be perfect. Perfect is boring. Perfect is disgusting. Perfect breeds discontent.

Ooh, I like that. I like that a lot.

Imperfection and acceptance breeds growth and understanding.

Imperfection and acceptance. I like that.

Because if you can't accept your imperfect pieces, you can't accept the good things in your life either. Yeah, we don't see the good things when we're not accepting imperfection.

I love that. And I think Iron man is such a unique way of, like, of, like, looking at that and seeing that there's two sides to every coin. There's, like, the other pieces. You need to make sure that you're flipping it and seeing the good pieces and looking at that.

You have to see the good pieces and you have to find the right support system for you. When Tony first started and he was falling over and breaking things in his shop and all of that because he hadn't found the right system to put around himself, to make him into Superman.

Yes.

And into Ironman and into whatever it was he was looking to be. And if we don't do that for ourselves, we're never going to reach our full success.

Yes. Yeah. We had a great conversation, episode 17 of the Great show with David Rendall, who talks about, like, flaunting your weakness, like, building up what other, other people see ADHD as a weakness, and it's not. It is your superpower. And you define the way to build on that and to get the support system, which I think is a key way of looking at to make it so it can be all that it needs to be, because when you are.

Well supported, you could do anything. And women who are well supported, the women that are well supported are multi billionaires, the moms who post on Pinterest and everything's beautiful, are the, the wives to always have everything put together. None of those people do that by themselves.

Yeah. And I think anything we live in a society that tries to, like, you know, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, do it on your own. And really, when you look around and even when you think about yourself and the things that you've accomplished, if you pause long enough, you can look at the people and the things that made that possible. And we get so focused on society about you doing it on your own. You don't have to realize, like, I couldn't have done this without this magical opportunity that came to me and this person that cheered me on and these people that did these other pieces to make it happen. And we don't put enough focus on the communities and the individuals that are the supports that make that happen. And I think we need to do more of that.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I as working, I was an OBM and had an agency and did that for a long time.

I got to see pause. What is an obmde?

Online business manager.

Thank you.

So I was an OBM to a few seven plus figure coaches, big $50,000, $20,000 packages and all of that. And I quit working for them because they were telling everybody, this is what you could do. You can do this. You could do this on your own, you can do this. There were 25 of us in the background doing all of the actual work so she could go sit on a beach and do nothing. And that was more than one of them. So just. I had seven of them at one point.

But Elon Musk. Elon Musk has an assistant that does 90% of his stuff, including getting. Making sure his laundry gets done. And I know his assistant, so I like, I know this to be true, and I know a couple other multi million dollar couples, and their whole entire household is run by 50 other people, not them.

Yes. Yes.

People who are successful have a tribe. Yes, they have a tribe. And each piece of their tribe is extremely amazing at the one thing that they do. That's all they do. You hire the expert in this and you hire the expert in that, and you hire the expert in this and you hire the next expert. You don't do all of those things yourself.

Yes. So valuing doing things independently is something you need to be able to diverge yourself from so that you can find the resources and find the connections to have the support to really be successful. And where do you think that starts? I mean, you have a community, which I'm sure is like a great place to start, but for the folks that are out there, like, where do they start?

Find somebody to start with and ask help. And it may not be your spouse. Not all of us, and I very well know not everyone is blessed to have a spouse that is able and or willing to be helpful. Find help, do body doubling with your best friend. You and her get together and clean your house. Both of you together. Then you go over to her house and clean her house.

Yes. Find that reciprocity.

Find that. Like my community, we do, we decided to offer something very low cost, $20 a month, and you can meet with ADHD coaches a minimum of twice a day and get unlimited body doubling via zoom all day long, every single day. Because having a community and having a tribe that even if all we can do for you today is listen to you vent and say, oh, my gosh, I understand. Oh, my gosh. Have you tried this? Have you tried that? Have you done that? Have you thrown something and screamed bloody murder? Because you just need to let it all out today. And sometimes that's all you need to do. You just need to be seen, find a safe space and be heard.

This is so interesting. Cause I really thought most of our conversation be very specific to ADHD and to that piece. And I feel like a lot of this, everyone listening is like, oh, I might need that, too. That it might be like a higher level of need for individuals with ADHD, but that it really is like that. This is stuff that everyone possibly needs, right?

Everybody needs this. Everybody needs it. Now, if you're neurodivergent, the pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is insurmountable most of the time. And I wish I could say that you could figure it out on your own, and maybe you can, but it's going to take you 20 times longer than it would in your typical person. Stop trying to do it by yourself and get the help you need. And I don't care whether you're neurodivergent or not. Get support because you need a safe space. You need to be seen as who you are without masking and trying to cover up the fact that you have a lot of anxiety today, or you're depressed today, or you haven't brushed your teeth today, or taken a shower in three days, or your house is a disaster, or you forgot to pack lunch for your kid at school, and now you're going to owe school the money for paying for the lunch, or you forgot to grocery shop again, so now you got to order for McDonald's again.

All of these things. Every person has these moments, neurotypical, neurodivergent or not. But when you're neurodivergent, if you have a space, you can start to see success in your life instead of that shame spiral that constantly in and burnout. Yes, we go from burnout to burnout to burn out to burnout.

No. And the shame spiral is definitely a huge part of that. And so let's talk for a minute, because you kind of touched on the, the financial piece, and that is like very much a symptom, a challenge, a component of ADHD that maybe doesn't get enough press and enough talk time and enough conversation because of the shame that comes with that. Because finances are so important for our fiscal stability or stability in life. So where do you start with that? And what are some tips and supports around that? Obviously, like, how do you even start reaching out for help around that?

So one, hire an ADHD coach who's also ADHD. Hire an ADHD coach who's willing to talk about their own issues with you. If you work with a coach who is that trying to look Instagram pretty at all times and sound like she has everything together, run as fast as you can because no person, neurotypical or not, has everything together there is. Share the shame along with the good. I share my story. And we had to declare bankruptcy at one point because I destroyed our finances. We almost lost our home. No, we did lose our home eventually.

It took a little while. We lost our car. We couldn't do anything because I was impulsive. Can I tell you what I spent the money on? No, I actually can't because I just. I would go out to eat. I would go do this. I would buy extra groceries. I would buy my son that cute outfit.

I would. Whatever. It wasn't spent. Like, I spent $50,000 on one thing and hit it for my husband. No, I spent $5 here. Five. And I didn't know I was really doing it. I mean, I knew I was spending money, but I didn't understand the impact of that.

Yeah.

And this is male and female. Both my male and female clients have this impulse. Is spending not a good grasp on executive function skills for planning and processing and planning out when these bills are due and when those bills are due. So you bounce checks constantly or overdraft funds or you forget to buy groceries. So therefore you're eating out for the 10th time this week. And before you know, you spent $300 on takeout this week and now your budget for groceries is completely gone, where you could have spent a $100 on groceries and had $200 left over to go out for a meal, go to a movie, put gas in your cardinal. Running out of gas because you're not paying attention.

That happens so much when I was a teenager. It's so funny because, like, the more, like, all the cute quirks about me when I was younger, like, they're running out of gas. I once added something into my checkbook and so subtracted it and bounced stuff when I was younger and stuff too. And all these things that I was younger, like that. Now that I'm learning more, I was like, wow. Like, that all makes sense now that I learned more. But it's so funny that it wasn't even until the last few years that I've even thought about it, it all made sense.

Yeah. So when I work with a client, we work on executive functioning skills first to get the groceries ordered to make sure that you're planning for sending money to school for the field trip for your child, so that we've got the time management and planning piece under control, because that's going to solve 90% of your financial issues. Number two is understanding where you can save money, where you can bring money in for yourself as an adult. There are ways you could save money again. Spending $200 and $300 on takeout this week, you could have spent $100 in groceries and one ate better. You would have felt better, you would have had less problems with your adhd by eating better, and you would have saved yourself a couple hundred bucks.

The part of it is that reflective time with the coach to be able to look at those things and turn them over and come up with solutions for them that makes perfect sense.

And everybody has different solutions. I have one client that we have built and I hate this because I know how to do this, but it's gross and disgusting and I hate the thought of this. We have built the most complicated spreadsheet known to man and she loves it and she uses it every day and she keeps track of everything. Now, I have another client that we use the Mint app. I have another client that she just has email reminders that go to herself twice a week to check her checking account and make sure things have gone out and she's paid the bill and she has everything on her Google calendar. It's finding what works for you and how your brain works and how your chaos works. And for me, like, to study, I'm back in school to get my PhD and I have to study one of my professors the other day. I'm taking notes and all of that.

And we have to prove, because we're remote, so we have to record that we're taking notes on the lectures and all of that stuff. We're not trusted.

You're not an adult. I don't know.

I don't know.

You're not paying for your schooling. Apparently it's not a lot of money. Yes.

So I'm doing my notes and stuff, and I'm doing them by making cute little flaps and writing them and taking them in my textbook and doing all of the things and they're all color coded and they have stickers on them. And the response I get, because it's pass fail, we have to prove that we're doing. He's like, are you ADHD? Yes, I am. But ask me anything about everything that I wrote down, what color it's on, what it looks like, and I can regurgitate that information to you in a second because I know how my brain works and I catered my learning and everything around that. The same thing with everyday life. That pretty planner that you saw at target is not going to solve your disorganization.

Yes, well, one of my curiosities, because I am the queen of coming up with systems. I am not the queen of following through on those systems. And I'm curious if that's a thing.

That is absolutely a thing. I have 50 systems for every single thing I do. I have no less than 20 planners in my house at any certain time. My keys and I have a process that has to be followed for buying a planner. One, I have to love how it feels, I have to love how it smells, and I have to love the color. If I don't, I will never use it. Two, it must be undated.

Ooh, that's smart, because I have a bunch of them for, I have like four for 2024 and they're all going to get thrown out. And there's some in one and some in a different one and some in a different one. So.

And over the years, I mean, I have, right on my desk, I have two planners on my desk. They're undated. But my favorite, the thing that I come back to the most office is doing bullet journaling because I can put stickers in here, I can color, I can use post it notes, things like that. And I like this. And it's become my second brain. So I now have mostly just one system that I use, though I do test new types of planners that come out all the time for my clients.

How do you make a system stick? Like for me, that's the biggest challenge is making a system stick. I'm great at coming up with them.

I have a framework that I follow every single day. The system that I use can change 9000 times. I could be only using the whiteboard behind me. I could be using my planner. I could be just using post it notes. I could be doing google or using artful agenda or whatever it is that works for me today in my brain chaos. So what works for me today, the framework is every morning I brain dump everything out of my head where I brain dumped that. That's whatever feels good today.

Okay.

Two, I schedule out and I write down what is expected of me for the day. If I don't write it down, it's never going to happen. I've learned I have to handwrite things.

Yes.

Some days it's handwriting on paper, other days it's handwriting on my iPad.

Yes.

I hand write things.

Yes.

Number three, I check it once an hour to make sure I'm staying on track.

Ooh.

I have five minutes scheduled every hour to make sure I'm staying on track throughout the day. And that's scheduled. And I have a reminder for that. And it's on my calendar, so no clients can book over it or anything like that.

Nice. That makes sense.

And number four, I evaluate how I did at the end of the day. Did this work well for me today? Why didn't it work good today? Oh, I was too tired, I was too chaotic. I was too. Whatever. So that I can find my patterns. What's my pattern right now?

Yes.

And I will tell you by doing that, I can tell you when I'm going to get my period, just by how I'm planning for the day because I know what my patterns are now.

Yeah.

Like I said, I mostly use a bullet journal and some days, some days I hand write everything and do stickers and all kinds of things. Other days I just stick a post it note in there that already has everything all framed out and done for me. How I do it is very different. But I found that this is the system that tends to work the best for me.

Those post it notes are fun. Where did you get those post it notes? You guys can't see them, but they're very like detailed. It's kind of fun. You can just stick them in your post in your bullet journal, they say.

For today and they've got your morning so you can put your times like appointments in it and your top three in your to do and then little note section. They're by noted by post it notes.

I like that just because of the fact that like I like bullet journals, but sometimes I need more of a structure and it's too much time to redo the structure all the time with the bullet journal. And again, time is something we run out of sometimes and we feel overwhelmed and burnout. Were those the words we were using? So.

Yes, but on Amazon they have like meeting note, like little notebooks that are meeting notes and things like that and I just will take them into my bullet journal.

Oh, that's an option too. I love post it notes. I love post it notes, though. Don't you love post it notes?

Me too. Well, I use post it note glue a lot. Just make my own post it notes and you can buy those little cute pads, the little notepads of the cute daily planners and stuff like that and reuse them and still use the bullet journal system so that everything's contained in one place by having whatever kind of paper I want today in there and I can just tape it in or glue it in.

I like that. I did it. I've never even heard of post it note glue. I'm going to have to, I'm going to be playing on Amazon and I might have to put some stuff on the show notes for y'all that you.

Guys, it's by scotch. It's called restick. It's repositional glue stick.

Repositional glue stick. Oh my gosh. I'm learning all sorts of things I didn't expect, I learned today. Danielle, this is exciting. Repositional glue stick. Okay. I'm writing this down.

And you can also get like the glue tape, which is double sided sticky tape, to put them in there too. But they are not repositional. After a little while, it stuck, but I think they make a repositional version of it.

But that's fun.

Whatever. If you're gonna stick it in there and you don't need to take it out again, it doesn't matter what you use.

I like this because I do like having my own, like, bullet type journal, but I would get completely distracted with making that pretty and doing that, and I spend half of my day on that instead of doing all the things I need to get done. So it would be nice to have, like, when I need that creative juice time and flow time to be able to make it fun and pretty, but then just have something I can just put in there. When I need something, just put in there. So I like that flexibility. Yeah.

And there are days I do that and I actually, you can. Nobody will see it because I'm not going to get up, but I actually have a whole cart, three tiered rolling cart full of happy planner stickers and stickers and stuff like that. And some days I will spend an hour, if I have the time and I can, to plan out my whole entire week and design a pretty layout for the whole week to use and all of that. If that's how I feel today.

Well, and I think that's an element. So we should. This is a good time for us to actually start moving into that self care piece, that self maintenance piece. I feel like getting that creative zone and doing that in a creative way like that is a useful thing. So I like to have it. So it can be either go back and forth and do those. So I want us to get into self care, self maintenance conversation. But before we do that, is there anything that you feel like we haven't touched on, we haven't covered that you want to be able to touch on with ADHD and this conversation to make sure our audience learns about and hears about?

You're going to continue to struggle until you get help. Help does not need to be super expensive. I know coaches charge like $450 a month, $550 a month, $650 a month, that you don't have to spend that much on a coach. Even if I'm not who you would want to work for or with or whatever, message me, I will help you find the right coach. I have a huge network of ADHD coach friends and ADHD coach friends and trauma coach friends to help refer you to. I just want to see people get the right help because hiring a regular life coach is not a good idea when you're neurodivergent.

Just don't and they will understand why it's not working. Yes.

Well, I have a client right now who just started with me who was afraid to hire me because the last coach she worked with made her feel so ashamed for not being able to take action on what she was teaching her and doing things her way. She had a very strategic way that you have to do things hurt that coach's way, and she ended up with so much shame and trauma from working with a coach. And I hear that story often. There's no reason for that. Find your right fit?

Yes, yes. And I do say that to folks all the time, that when it comes to finding help, that there is that element that it might take more than once and you need to find the right fit. Like, for everyone, including and especially, it sounds like folks with ADHD. And can you just tell us that the AUd acronym as well, so that we make sure folks know what that stands for?

Aud is ADHD upgrade or Aud.

Is that. Is that autism? Is that it?

AuDHD. Sorry. AuDHD is autism and ADHD together. I am autistic and ADHD. I'm actually fairly severely autistic. Obviously, I've learned I was nonverbal as a child. Really? And of course, I didn't get diagnosed with autism until I got my son diagnosed with autism and went, oh, this is me.

That's amazing. Yes, because a lot of people like that. The communication piece, obviously, you're very strong communicator as an adult that you had that challenge as a child, and that's something that you've worked with and done some amazing things. But people just feel like it's just the communication piece with it and they don't see the other pieces that are part of it. Isn't it fascinating, the diagnoses and understanding the different angles of them and people trying to see themselves in them, and we don't always know how they fit into, how to understand that.

So for me, it was my diagnosis journey was I got diagnosed with ADHD as a child. Well, actually, my first diagnosis was mentally retarded as a child. Really, they just stuck me in the back of the room and didn't bother because I. I couldn't sit still, I couldn't learn, I wasn't verbal, I couldn't read. I couldn't write all of these things. I became verbal at eight and started to read at age eight when my little brother started to read, who was four years younger than me, so he was four when he started to read it. And I picked up from this program because he's profoundly deaf, that they were doing with him because I would sit in the back of the room when he went to services every day and I learned to read because he was learning to read and I learned to speak because my profoundly deaf brother was learning to speak. Those same processes taught me.

But I was nine before somebody realized that I was just ADHD. Just ADHD. And I had the one teacher and all that, but I was still twelve before I worked at grade level and all of those things, and I had the one teacher who helped me. So when you're ADHD, autistic, I had some learning disabilities, or so they thought. But what we didn't realize that I had suffered a brain. I was in a bad car accident when I was two years old. I also had a traumatic brain injury. And of course, we didn't know that until they did brain scans as I was older and things.

But I had that ADHD, autism, TBI overlap. And you look at all of that and there's so much that overlaps with all that. So nobody knew what to do with me.

Yes. But the moral to that story for me is that you got more help and the help your brother was getting when he got more targeted help and you were getting it almost like by osmosis, practically see it in the back of the room. Right. That when there was more targeted supports, that you improved. And so sometimes, like, the exact diagnosis is sometimes less important than having the.

Right kind of help.

Yes.

It always comes to the right kind of help.

Yes. And the teacher. Yeah, the teacher that was actually going to care and support and give you what you needed. And that made the big difference. Yeah. One of my siblings, and I do believe they have the ADHD diagnosis. I think two of my siblings had it, but I didn't know they did till they were later. And obviously I didn't tell much, much later, but one of them was diagnosed, I forget it, was dyslexic.

He was diagnosed as dyslexic in the second grade and like 75% of his class was diagnosed with that. And when he was in second grade and it was probably ADHD and that as well, possibly as well. But it's so interesting how, like, it's so hard to get those things figured out sometimes. And really it can be less important exactly what it is and more important that these supports are what matters.

Learning how your brain works, who cares why it works, the way it works, how does your brain work? So how can somebody support you and give you the help you need?

Yes, exactly. And learning that you do need additional supports and those are things that are helpful. And that's like when they were trying to, like when I was going through the diagnostic process and they were being so they were being oppositional and telling me, you might not have this, you're. How are you going to feel when this isn't the diagnosis? What are you going to do when that? I'm like, I don't care. I'm not attached to diagnosis. I'm attached to getting better and fully functioning in my life. And I thought you were supposed to be a component to help that.

I thought you were supposed to help me.

Yeah, thought. I thought, this is why I'm spending all this time and putting this effort, because I was told the gatekeepers are making it, so I can't get support. So I go through these hurdles and you're part of those hurdles. So let's just get through these hurdles and hopefully you can be helpful. Maybe, maybe not. So, yeah, it's kind of interesting how that works. So, again, going back to the support, so you finally got the supports even at those different ages and stages, again, pointing to your whole solution that you just, you need to keep trying if you're not finding the right supports. And I love that you are offering yourself as a tool for folks to be able to make those connections.

Yeah.

So for individuals contacting you, do they need to have a diagnosis or a suspected diagnosis? Okay.

Absolutely not. I would say probably 20% of my clients aren't diagnosed. Sometimes we get them a diagnosis because they need medication or whatever, or it's important to them, and that's fine, and I will help you with that process, but not everybody is. And you might just be an exhausted mom with littles. You might be an exhausted manager at work and just not able to process because you've got home life and work life and exhaustion and overwhelm can look like ADHD, even if it's not.

Yeah, there's a bunch of components. Yeah. But a lot of times ADHD can be diagnosed as depression or anxiety and all these other pieces when really it just needs. It's just ADHD, and the right supports will get you where you need to be.

Exactly.

So this has been so lovely. So let's do what do you do our self maintenance minute. And we call it self maintenance because self care is often has that lens of people thinking that it's something extra or something not important.

Go get your nails done or spend a lot of money on. So my self care is I give myself a squirrel day. Squirrel days, for me, could be scrapbooking. It could be cleaning my house. It could be scrapbooking, cleaning my house, listening to music, and watching a movie all at the same time. And it drives my husband insane because my husband is autistic, and he likes things quiet and music, a movie, and me running around doing things all at the same time drive my husband insane. But he, this is my squirrel day. I do what I want in my squirrel day, and I could be reading a book and watching tv and a movie and music and all of that at the same.

What do I need to relax myself?

That is fabulous. Yes. I love my do nothing days, and there's nothing scheduled. And it's because I got to do too much on my do nothing days potentially or nothing at all. But it's not having things I have to do.

So there is. I do not come in my office. So a few years ago, I was working too much because I'm ADHD, and I got stuck, and my husband put a lock in my office. I have a electronic lock, a code that a code goes in the door, but I have to put that code in, and I'm terrible at remembering numbers, so I have to go figure out where the numbers are, and my husband keeps moving them and hiding them. So I have to ask him what the number for my door is some days, and this makes me really think about coming back in this office and working or doing anything on my weekends, because my squirrel days cannot include work.

Mm hmm. Very important. Very important. It's good to have that nice.

They are just relaxed days, and sometimes I'm doing something to make future me happy, which is cleaning my house. Sometimes I'm cooking up a storm because that sounded good today to cook a ton, and I'm doing future me a favor. Other days, I'm making a huge mess for future me, and future me is not going to be happy with me. But that's fine.

That works. I like it. So we have grit. Wit is what we call it. But what is your takeaway you would like to give to our listeners today?

Ask for help. You can be Iron Man, Superman, whatever, with the right support around you and whether you're diagnosed or not or wherever you are in life, get support. Support does not have to be expensive. Support can be free. You have to take more physical action yourself if it's a free version of the support. But get support. Ask for help. Call your bestie.

Clean each other's houses with together.

Yes.

Get help.

Find that and make it happen. I love it. And for folks, you have a website and you can, they can connect to your community for that website. What's the best way for folks to find you? Tell us.

Nd out loud n is in neuro d as in divergent out loud. Because we are all about not being a full of shame and frustration about our neural divergence. We want you to learn to live out loud with it, as in love yourself. Live and love yourself out loud because you don't need to hide and be shameful of whatever it is you're stuck with right now. So ndoutloud. TikTok Instagram, our website is ndoutloud.com and our group program is really low cost. We've placed it at $19.99, $19.99 month, and we meet a minimum of twice a day with unlimited body doubling on Zoom. So you could literally be with me all day long if you wanted to.

And we have a community that's not in social media because, you know, we get lost on social media and get sucked in and we forget that we're supposed to be eating and brushing our teeth and things like that. So we have an outside community with its own app so that you can come in, get what you need and leave easily because it's boring and there's not that much going on and. But we meet on Zoom a minimum of twice a day to help you set intentions, accomplish intentions, and be safe, seen and heard.

I love it. That is fabulous. And we will have all of that in the show notes. So don't worry if you didn't memorize it, although it is pretty easy to remember. That's all right there for you, wherever you are listening to this. Thank you so much, Danielle. You are such a gift. What you're doing is so important and I'm so grateful you joined us today so we could share this with everyone.

Thank you for having me, Shawna. I enjoyed being here with you.

I value the time we shared together today. Thank you for making time to be here and to continue taking steps towards growth and bringing more ease into your life. I'd love for us to stay connected on instagram @shawnapodcast or @the.grit.show. There's even a link in bio @the.grit.show. Or you can send me an email to let me know what you thought of today's episode, hearing from you helps to make the effort that goes into producing these episodes worthwhile. After all, you're why I'm here. And since it's been a while since you've heard this, you are the only one of you that this world has got. And that really does mean something.

I hope you realize that I'll be back again soon. And I hope you're following along or subscribe so that you'll know and be here too.