What if you could fund your lifestyle by group coaching just one day a week? That's not a fantasy. It's the exact framework John Meese has spent 13 years building, testing, and teaching, and he's bringing all of it to this episode.

John is the author of the new book Sold Out Coach and the founder of Sold Out Coach Club, where he helps coaches and consultants build sold out group programs that earn at least $10,000 per month working 90 minutes per week. His alignment with the I Love Coaching mission is no coincidence: both worlds are built on the same conviction that coaches deserve to build something that's genuinely theirs, on their terms.

This conversation wraps up our 7-part series on transitioning from one-to-one to one-to-many coaching with a perspective from someone who has coached hundreds of coaches through exactly that transition, and watched almost every possible version of what goes wrong.

What You'll Learn

• Why most coaches struggle to describe the promise of a group offer after they've mastered one-to-one
• The "one-to-few" bridge: why starting smaller changes your ability to sell transformation at scale
• Why you should stop selling the medicine and start selling the cure, and what that actually looks like in practice
• The "curse of knowledge" trap: why your expertise makes it harder, not easier, to communicate your offer
• How John helped a client go from "I want to help people show up authentically" to "I help you radiate authority" in a single coaching session
• Why imaginary avatars pay with imaginary money and real conversations are the only thing that works
• The $10,000 threshold: why John won't take group coaching clients who haven't already sold at least that much in one-to-one
• The gap problem: why applying online course marketing tactics to a group coaching offer kills conversions
• How to close the gap between you and a potential client and why that single shift unlocks sales
• How a client with 35,000 email subscribers who hadn't made a sale in nine months added $100,000 in revenue with one simple email
• How another client crossed $500,000 in revenue in his first year with only 550 email subscribers
• The power of positive peer pressure inside a group and why group coaching delivers more transformation than one-to-one

Timestamps

• 00:00 Introducing John Meese and why this is the perfect series closer
• 01:04 What John does: fund your lifestyle group coaching one day a week
• 02:41 The biggest challenge coaches face going from one-to-one to one-to-many
• 03:55 Why going one-to-few first changes everything
• 05:41 What is your actual offer? Why this is so hard for coaches to answer
• 06:34 Stop selling the medicine, sell the cure
• 07:52 Live example: helping Dr. Leslie Davis find "radiate authority" in real time
• 09:34 The onion layers of language and why your expertise works against you
• 10:21 Does this work for beginners or do you need one-to-one experience first?
• 11:16 Why imaginary avatars pay with imaginary money
• 11:37 The $10,000 one-to-one threshold before building a group program
• 13:00 How ILC's framework and John's framework align
• 13:49 The two biggest pitfalls coaches make going one-to-many
• 14:49 The gap problem: why course marketing tactics kill group coaching sales
• 16:00 How to close the gap and what that looks like in practice
• 16:44 Case study: 35,000 subscribers, zero sales for nine months, then $100,000
• 17:43 Case study: 550 subscribers, $500,000 in year one
• 18:07 How to get the book and the special offer for I Love Coaching listeners
• 19:54 Why group coaching delivers more transformation than one-to-one

Quotes From This Episode

"If you can build a sold out group coaching program at the core of your business, earning at least $10,000 per month group coaching 90 minutes per week, you can buy back your time and do everything else from a place of abundance." - John Meese

"Don't sell the medicine, sell the cure. The medicine is the stuff you have people do to create change. The cure is the promise. The transformation. Once they say yes to that, then we talk about the medicine." - John Meese

"Imaginary friends pay you with imaginary money. You are creating a real solution to a real problem for real people. That has to come from real conversations." - John Meese

"Once she said 'I just want to help them radiate authority,' you could feel it. That's it. That's the offer. Everything else she teaches is the means to an end." - John Meese

"His audience didn't change. What changed was he closed the gap. One email, subject line: 'quick question.' Hundreds of replies. $100,000 added to his business in the first few months." - John Meese

"Positive peer pressure is precious. In one-on-one coaching, I tell you to do something and maybe you will, maybe you won't. In a group, you have to come back with a straight face and tell the whole room you didn't do it." - John Meese

Resources + Next Steps

• Get John's new book Sold Out Coach plus his free crash course at soldout.coach/love (special link for I Love Coaching listeners with discounted preorder and early access)
• Download the free Get Paid to Coach guide at ilovecoachingco.com
• Join the $10K+ Coaching Offer Challenge at ilovecoachingco.com/challenge
• REAL Coach Method Membership at ilovecoachingco.com/discover

Welcome back, everybody.

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I am so excited about this episode today because we have a special guest for you.

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My dear friend, John Meese, is releasing a new book about sold out coaching.

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And I thought what better way to wrap up the series that we have just done talking about

the

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process of transitioning from one-to-one to a group coaching, and we needed the expert on.

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So John, can you tell us in like 30 seconds or less who you are, what you do, and why

people need to be in your orbit?

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Sure, I'm happy to, but let me just start by just saying I love sold out coaching, which

is the title of our group chat with you and Adam.

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Cause I just like think it's just so genius of like, I run sold out coach club, you run,

love coaching.

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There's just such an affinity there.

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Like, yeah, I love sold out coaching.

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So that's the first thing I guess you should know about me.

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But then beyond that, I am an author.

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Some people say a bestselling author, you know, that's subjective, ah but uh thank you.

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Hey Adam, and then Adam's here too now.

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Yeah.

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Perfect timing, sorry guys.

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Sorry, sorry, sorry.

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okay.

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Go ahead, John.

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Yeah, so yeah, so what I do is I help.

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I help you sell your smarts that losing your soul or your Saturdays, and that's where the

core of what I do in my business.

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And that's what I'm here to help you with.

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Now the reality is when you start selling your smarts, you realize pretty quickly there's

courses, there's books, there's one on one coaching, there's consulting, there's all these

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things you can do.

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And so it took years of kind of doing that full time.

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I've been doing this for about, I guess, for 13 years, which is a long time and Internet

years.

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But about half of that, was focusing on courses and memberships before I realized that if

you can build a sold out group coaching program at the core of your business, if you can

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earn at least $10,000 per month group coaching 90 minutes per week, well, now all of a

sudden you can buy back your time and you can do everything else from a place of

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abundance.

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Now you can publish a book, you can start a membership in the course without worrying

about how you're gonna fund your lifestyle.

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So that's what I do in my coaching program, but it's also the focus of my new book, as you

mentioned, Sold Out Coach.

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I'm so excited for this.

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Well, you have such a servant's heart when it comes to helping people build group coaching

or coaching products and services in general.

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And so I just, think there's like you said, great alignment between who you are and then

what we do.

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And so that's why I thought this was the perfect marriage.

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Yes.

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Well, I'm glad to be here.

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Yeah, for that.

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And I'm glad that you said servant-hearted.

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I I want to think I did myself a favor of subliminally training people to call me

servant-hearted by calling my last book, Serve to Sell.

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so it's like, Pete, it's like word association.

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But I'll take it.

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So thank you.

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That's good.

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So going into, know that the book was written in the space of not only serving, but also

sharing some past, some past challenges, right?

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In the coaching space.

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And with those challenges that you then expose, what are some of the, what are some of the

biggest challenges you've seen?

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Yeah, well, one of the biggest ones, this is which I'm glad you asked the question because

it actually relates to directly to the series you got all up and running in terms of going

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from one to one to one and many is that when you're selling one to one, you can kind of

personalize what you're offering the person in front of you.

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And so a lot of people want to get good at that.

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They think, OK, great.

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Now I'll go one to many.

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I'll go create a course, a book or coaching program.

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And what they find is that it's actually really, really hard to describe the promise of

that.

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And that's where most people struggle is like, how do you actually say, like, not just

like, bye.

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me on a shared call with other people and share me, you know, like that's not a good

pitch, right?

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And so getting clear on the promise.

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And actually, that's actually what got me into group coaching was I was teaching people

how to sell courses and people who had one-on-one coaching businesses trying to sell a

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course were kind of awful at describing the value of the course.

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Instead of them create this massive course and to be tone deaf to what people actually

wanted.

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And I was like, hey, if you want to go from one to one to one and many, why don't we start

by going one to few?

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Because if you can do that, you dramatically change your ability to actually sell a

promise, sell a transformation, sell a program, and then that makes it easier to sell

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everything else.

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That's so good.

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Thanks.

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Jinx is right.

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But I think you hit the nail on the head because too often, especially in the coach course

creation space, which is where I play a lot in terms of IP, is people have so much

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knowledge and so much value that they want to deliver, they don't know how to make it

relate to the person who they're seeking to have by it.

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And so...

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I think that when there's that disconnect, that makes it a really difficult thing for

somebody who's like, I have all of this and I want to share it, I want to serve, right?

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But nobody's buying.

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And so how would you tell somebody to go about doing that?

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I know you mentioned your previous book, is that also in this context of sold out coaching

as well, that serve to sell?

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Yeah, well, yeah, surf to sell is exactly how to sell premium programs with one free

coaching call.

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So that book's about the thing we all do, like everybody who sells anything that's over a

couple hundred dollars, there's a point where there's like a live conversation, especially

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when it's a new product, right?

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whether sometimes you call it a discovery call or a strategy call or a clarity call, a

compass call, consult, right?

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I was frustrated, I'm very much an instruction manual guy, and I was really frustrated

there was not a really good instruction manual for those.

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why I wrote Surf to Sell.

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So that book is how to give that call.

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But even before that, you gotta know going into that call a little bit about what your

offer is, right?

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If you're selling a group program, because if you meet with five people and you sell those

five people into a group, congratulations, you have a group.

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But if you sold them five different things, that's gonna be really complicated to deliver

on, right?

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So we don't wanna do that.

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So for me, it really comes down to the core of what I teach is creating what we call a 10X

promise, which is a single sentence that describes the total transformation of your offer.

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And then the wholesale process that I teach is really built around that one thing.

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That's good.

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That's really good.

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And I love that.

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I love both of these books, right?

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We've got the serve to sell, right?

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And then the sold out portion.

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And that's the neat part is at the start of that understanding, and Jess and I talk about

this all the time, what really is your offer?

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What really is your payoff?

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And what have you found there, John?

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Why is that so hard for coaches to understand?

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Yeah, I think honestly, you know, that we probably need a new term for it because it's not

just the curse of knowledge, but it's something in that same family of like.

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Think you know, you know, like that, you know, once you've read once you've been through

therapy and you've read a couple really good like relationship books and then you go to

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Thanksgiving dinner with some extended family and you start looking around and you can see

all of the flaws, right?

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You can now see the problems you can go.

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you're a textbook narcissist.

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That's interesting.

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What do we do with that information?

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So when you learn those things, what's difficult is you can't unsee it, but that doesn't

mean you can just give them that advice on how to fix that problem.

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So one of the phrases we use a lot in my program is don't sell the medicine, sell the cure

or stop selling the medicine.

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Because what most people are doing is they're selling the medicine.

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They're saying, what I learned is the path to get fit, right, is to, you know, is to skip

breakfast, eat paleo.

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Work out three times a day, you like whatever, you have all this medicine, the stuff that

you have people do to get change.

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And that's fine.

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actually, people actually do need the medicine, but that should not be part of your sales

process.

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What you're selling people is the cure, right?

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It's the difference between saying like, you know, skip breakfast, eat paleo, workout

three times a day, drink, you know, half your body weight in water every day versus saying

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turn your father figure into a, or turn your dad bought into a father figure with rock

hard abs.

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Like that's a promise, right?

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And it's like, once they say, yes, I want that.

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Now we can talk about, okay, great.

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Here's the medicine, but we've got to sell the cure.

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And that's one of the things I think people get stuck on.

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I just had a real life example of this today, actually.

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I was coaching a client on office hours in our group program in Seoul.coachclub.

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And she came in and she was like, she told me that she had this offer, name's Dr.

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Leslie Davis.

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And she was really struggling because she was saying, I know I'm trying to get people to

understand what I want to do is I want to help them.

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I want to help them speak authentically.

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I want them to help them.

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be the person that they want to be.

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I want to make sure their actions match who they are in the inside or who they want to be.

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So that with that integrity and that authenticity, they can earn people's trust, they can

grow their business and like all good things.

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But I pointed out, was like, okay, we have to get through layers of this to understand,

you're right.

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You can see this problem and you want to help them.

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You can see that people are not showing up the way that they want to be or the way that

they intend to be.

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And that people are not trusting them or following them in the same way.

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But we started wrestling through the layers of like,

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Okay, but why does that matter?

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Why do they actually want that?

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And leaning into putting on our empathy hat to put ourselves in the shoes of the people

that they're her target client.

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And we ended up kind of, there was this moment we're going deeper and deeper, deeper until

she says this, finally in frustration, she says, I just want to help them radiate

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authority.

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And we just, you could feel it.

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Like everyone in the room opposite ours was like, what?

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That's it.

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That's the offer, right?

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It's like teaching you how to radiate authority.

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And then we learned the second half of that is radiate authority without.

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you know, faking it, you know, or with that, there's another version she's working on

maybe without being a church, because that's the thing people are afraid of is if I read

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authority, do I have to come across as obnoxious?

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But my point is that once you got clear on that, it's so clear that's the offer, right?

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Everything else she teaches, that's the cure.

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That's the promise.

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Everything else she teaches about making sure that you're showing up the way that you want

people to perceive you, you're walking the talk.

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That's all it means to an end.

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So I think

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think the reason why it's so hard for us to people to tap into that is because once you

see the problem, you just want to fix the problem.

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But you have to kind of back up and talk to people who don't actually know the problem.

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And you really just have to kind of invite them into the transformation, the cure, the

medicine comes later.

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I love the way that you position that.

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And of course, my nerdy brain immediately started thinking about onions, which I know

sounds completely obscure.

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But I was thinking you were talking about digging deep and it's layers and layers of

language that we kind of pile on.

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it's from, like you said, curse of knowledge or experience.

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It's from.

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uh

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learning something new, right?

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We pile on all this language, which makes us feel like we have authority in that space or

knowledge in that space that we can turn around and share.

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But so often, when you're trying to relate to somebody, they haven't piled all that on.

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And so you have to get to the core of it.

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And yes, I don't know why I went to onions, because I'm allergic to them, but I totally

did.

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are like onions.

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Ogres are like onions, right?

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They got layers.

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uh But yeah.

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You know, I appreciate a good Shrek reference whenever I can squeeze that in there.

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How do you help somebody get to that kind of language though if they're just stepping into

the coaching space?

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Do you feel like this is something that can be done with anybody or do you feel like

somebody needs to really start with one-on-one to kind of figure out their fancy language,

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for lack of a better way to put it, before they can get to the root transformation?

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do think it does have to come down to real human conversations.

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One of the things I try to caution people against is don't create an offer for your

imaginary friends.

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now marketers call imaginary friends an avatar or a persona or an ICP.

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They've got all kinds of terms for these imaginary friends.

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But the reality is like that's a trap, like real quick, because imaginary friends pay you

with imaginary money and those don't pay the bills.

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So it does have to start with real life conversations.

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You are creating a real solution to a real problem for real people.

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Now, how do you connect to those people?

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Sometimes you may have, even outside of coaching, mean, you may have decades of real life

experience with people in your life that are your target client, right?

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Maybe you worked in a full-time corporate job where you got to meet people in this

situation.

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Maybe you're talking to stay-at-home moms and you're part of a stay-at-home mom group and

you know some of them, whatever it is, you need to talk to real humans.

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But I love to test offers by saying, first go create a one-on-one coaching business.

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And it's actually one of the questions I ask for incoming potential clients is,

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Hey, have you ever sold your advice before like coaching, consulting, other way that

you're selling advice?

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Great.

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Have you sold at least $10,000 worth of your advice?

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And if they say no, you're not ready for your coaching program.

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And it's actually not because you can't like the reality is all the tactics in theory

work, but it's really about fueling your empathy by understanding these are the people who

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have a pain point that's big enough.

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They're willing to pay a premium to get coaching support, get advice to fix that.

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And that's a lot.

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One on one coaching is more forgiving.

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because you can charge people different price points, you can have different start dates

and times, you can flex the offer as you go.

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It's more forgiving.

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It's way less scalable, but it's more forgiving.

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So I do recommend start with one-on-one coaching.

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And once you are at least $10,000 for one-on-one coaching, you probably have enough

knowledge now to start turning that into a group program.

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And at this point, I don't do any one-on-one coaching.

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I used to do one-on-one coaching just for equity, just like you have to give me equity in

your company.

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But then that kept me up at night with like now all of a I felt like I was like stressed

about everybody else's business decisions.

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when they were making, if you're a coaching client and you pay me and then you make a bad

decision, okay, well that's on you.

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But if I own an equity in your company now, it feels personal, right?

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So I gave back all the equity, I stopped doing that.

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I just do group coaching now.

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But yeah, I really do think that one-on-one does help.

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It's a really, really helpful, more forgiving way to start.

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Well, that's such great advice too, because we tell them, let's go out there and test the

waters, right?

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Let's go out there and really see if your, we call it problem solution cycle works.

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Does it really work in a one-on-one space?

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And if it does, well, then we can maybe take it to the masses, right?

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Take it to a one-to-many approach.

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But I do love your language there of the one-to-few versus one-to-many.

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That's really good language.

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Let me ask, as you've watched people transition from one to one to one to many, what do

you think are the top two pitfalls?

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We've talked a lot about some of these.

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What are the top two that you see coaches make mistake-wise that causes them not to have

success going to the one to many approach?

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Hmm.

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That's a question.

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So I think one of them is what I call the gap.

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And so by that, mean, most when you're trying to build a one-man business, you're trying

to scale.

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It's very natural to do what most online marketers do, which is to create a gap between

you and your customer.

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So the way this works is, is we don't intentionally go to create a gap.

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But if you think about the average product you go to buy on the internet, it's like you

get an email and then you click a link to go to a page, to watch a video, to maybe go to

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another page, to maybe fill out a form.

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to maybe fill out the checkout link, to maybe schedule an onboarding call, right?

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Like there's like all this, it's this gap between you and the customer.

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Now we do that because when you're selling a $17 product or a $47 product, I don't want to

talk to you, right?

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Like I can't afford to talk to a thousand people to try to sell a $17 product.

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That's bad math.

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And so what happens is people try to apply the way that you sell an online course or a

book, people try to copy and paste that to selling a group coaching program.

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And it just doesn't work.

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And the reality is because a 2000 or 5000 or $10,000 program per person, that is not an

impulse buy.

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There's gonna be some element of closing the gap.

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Now, sometimes closing the gap is having a one-on-one, what I call a serve call.

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That's what serve just tells us about that book, but having a free coaching call.

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Sometimes it's inviting a group of people onto a Zoom call, a Q &A, where you answer some

questions.

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It's not like a webinar.

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Webinars create a gap.

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Instead, you try to close the gap everywhere you can.

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Sometimes that means you're closing the sale over a text message.

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But your goal is just to look for, where can I close the gap to make this as human and

personal as possible so that I can lean in to close the sale?

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I've had clients with massive audiences.

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So Sean blocks a real life example of this where he came to me, had 33,000, sorry, 35,000

email subscribers.

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And for the last nine months, he hadn't been able to make one sale for his $5,000 program.

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And it was embarrassing and it was upsetting, right?

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Naturally so.

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And so I looked at it like, I was like, what do got?

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He's like, well, I got this really advanced application funnel.

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It's an application to a webinar, to a sales page.

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It's like all the stuff you should have a theory, right?

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I said, okay, step one, delete all of that.

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It's like, okay.

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So I was like, send, we figured out his 10x promise.

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And then he sent one email to his email list.

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that said subject line said, quick question.

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And the email said, would you like to run your full-time business working part-time hours?

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Dash Sean.

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Got hundreds of replies and then.

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Why have a multi-step like how do you reply to those rights?

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The next reply then is excellent.

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I'm so glad to hear you're interested.

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Would you tell me a about yourself in your current situation out of the hundreds people

that replied after that second question about a third didn't reply at all about a third

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gave really short answers and about a third give like their whole life story and like an

essay.

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Right and so then and then it's OK.

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Let's invite a handful of those onto either one call or workshop and close them and so you

know he added an extra $100,000 to his business in the first few months that he was doing

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this and.

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after nothing, right?

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Like his audience didn't change.

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What changed was he closed the gap.

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And so that's, that's really what I look for.

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And it works to a smaller scale, I should say.

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He's got a huge audience, but my most successful client to date, Dustin Rickman, he now

has over a million dollars a year in revenue just from his combination of his group

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coaching and his mastermind program.

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When he started this, he had a couple hundred email subscribers, you know, his first year

that he crossed $500,000 in revenue, he had 550 email subscribers.

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The next year he broke a million dollars in revenue.

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and he had, I think it was about 700 email subscribers.

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Now he's up to 2000 email subscribers.

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you know, it's still like in the bigger scheme of things, it's not a huge amount, but now

he's doing over a million dollars a year in revenue because it's about closing the gap and

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going deep with a few.

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So that's what I would recommend is to close the gap.

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That's good.

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That's really good.

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Jess?

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she's deep.

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I love this look here, John, because I know exactly what she's doing.

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She's so deep in thought right now.

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This is so good.

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All the gears are turning.

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So good.

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I'm well, you know me, I'm also dying to get my hands on the book.

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Um, which, because, I mean, I don't I don't read, John, I don't know if you knew this or

not.

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But I might have a book problem.

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No.

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yeah.

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Yeah.

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He reads so fast and so many.

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It's like, all right, well, let me put my four books up here on on the, on the counter.

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she at least somewhat compete.

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Yeah.

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No, she's so good.

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We can't wait to see this playbook and, and read it to what, when, where, how do we get

it?

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What's next?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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So I'm glad you asked.

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That's a good question.

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So, just, they're actually talking about this and we scheme to put together a special link

just for I love coaching folks.

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And so if you go to soldout.coach slash love, right.

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then not only do you get a discounted way to preorder the book and get early access to it,

right.

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So you actually get access to it before it's publicly available because Jess is beating

down my door asking for a copy.

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but

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Secondly, on top of that, I will immediately send you access to a crash course I have that

really teaches the core concepts of our seven step playbook.

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And the goal here is really to help you fund your lifestyle by group coaching one day a

week.

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I what could you do if you could know that you were funding your lifestyle by group

coaching one day a week?

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Would you go like Dustin and go all in on coaching and build a million dollar business

just doing that?

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Would you launch a, would you publish a book or a course and do something else?

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Would you, I've got one of my clients where,

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She's like, hey, if I can run two cohorts a year, then she makes six figures off of that.

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She's like, I run two cohorts a year, make six figures a year, amazing.

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As she spends the rest of her time working for a volunteer for a nonprofit.

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And she's like, that's my kind of rich.

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I'm like, that's amazing.

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And so it's like, that's what I want for you is I want you to be able to do this not only

because of the revenue impact for you, but also because you're gonna get to work closely

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with a handful of people to really, dare I say, disciple them through dramatic change in

their life.

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And it's a huge honor and it's way.

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more impact than you're going to get in their life than just having courses or even one on

one coaching.

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Because I will say a lot of times people underestimate how much once you once you go from

one to one to a group, usually people underestimate the impact of positive peer pressure.

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Because if you're on a one on one coaching call and I tell you to go do something and

you're like, yeah, maybe I will.

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Maybe I won't.

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That's fine.

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But if you're in a group and I tell you to do something, you got to come back and with a

straight face, be like, no, I didn't do it to the whole group.

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Right.

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And that positive peer pressure, that's precious.

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So.

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soldout.coach slash love.

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Mmm, I cannot wait.

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Just let's go do it right now.

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Well, I'm ready.

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I know, John, you have squeezed us into your busy schedule.

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So I just want to take one more moment to say thank you so much for coming to share a

little bit about who you are and what you're doing and how you're serving in this same

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space of coaching.

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What an incredible opportunity.

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And we'll make sure that, you know, our listeners have that link if they're maybe driving

or something like that in the show notes.

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So thank you again.

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it's my pleasure.

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Thank you both.

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It's always so fun to have same worlds come into a same conversation in the space of

serving, right?

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It is helping these people that desire in our lane of coaching to go have success and

significance.

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And I have no doubt your book, your playbook, this sold out process.

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is going to not only teach them how to have success, but also significance with their

clients.

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So thank you.

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that's so beautiful.

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Thank you for sharing that.

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I think you we all actually I could think I speak for all three of us when I say I love

sold out coaching.

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So please keep up the good work.

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Perfect.

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We will.

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Thank you, John.

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Appreciate your time.

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See you guys.

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Bye.