In this final episode of MC Fireside Chats for the year 2025, host Brian Searl welcomes a panel of returning industry experts to reflect on the past year and discuss future trends in outdoor hospitality. The group begins by introducing themselves and their businesses, including Kristin Andersen Garwood from Sage Outdoor Advisory, David Byers from Canadian Sleeping Barrels and Cedar Yurts, MacKenzie Whitsell from Wild Ride Mustang Sanctuary, Elizabeth McIntosh from Back Forty Glamping, and industry advocate Sandy Ellingson. Brian sets a festive tone for the December 17th broadcast, noting the upcoming holiday break, before asking the guests to share their most memorable business accomplishments from 2025.

Kristin Andersen Garwood kicks off the reflections by highlighting the significant strides her company made in data collection. She notes the release of their first glamping market report and the expansion of their proprietary database, which now includes hundreds of new properties. Kristin shares that they are currently preparing their Q4 report and an RV market report, with plans to expand their data analysis internationally. Following her, David Byers reveals a major pivot for his business; after 30 years of manufacturing round structures, his company has started building rectangular and square saunas to meet market demand. He showcases photos of his products, including a wheelchair-accessible sauna and sleeping barrels featuring acrylic bubble walls, emphasizing their durability and unique design suitable for heavy snow loads.

Elizabeth McIntosh shares that 2025 was a milestone year for her glamping operation in Ontario, as they completed their site plan by expanding to seven geodesic domes. She details the addition of "magical moments" to the property, such as a library in the forest, and the hiring of managers to allow for more hands-off ownership. Elizabeth discusses the surprising success of winter glamping, noting that social media platforms like TikTok have helped romanticize the "snow globe" experience, making winter bookings sometimes easier to secure than spring dates. She explains that amenities like private hot tubs and saunas are critical for making the cold weather appealing to guests.

MacKenzie Whitsell describes the infrastructure improvements made at her sanctuary, specifically the separation of the wild horse herd to create a walkway for guests. This change allows visitors to walk between the herds to a "pony petting pavilion," enhancing the immersive nature of the experience without compromising safety. Unlike Elizabeth, MacKenzie admits that winter glamping has been a harder sell at her location due to the need for guests to walk outside to bathhouses in freezing temperatures. She emphasizes her commitment to refining the guest experience to ensure it feels truly luxurious before aggressively marketing winter stays.

Sandy Ellingson expresses her enthusiasm for the industry's shift toward data-driven decision-making, moving from reactive to proactive strategies. She praises the younger entrepreneurs on the panel for their focus on engagement and unique experiences, noting a rise in agrotourism where guests, particularly from urban areas, visit parks specifically for equine therapy and animal interaction. The conversation then shifts to the role of Artificial Intelligence in the industry, a topic Brian Searl is passionate about. Brian challenges the group to discuss how they are utilizing AI, suggesting that it can be used for everything from coding interactive websites to enhancing promotional photos.

The group engages in a lively debate regarding the ethics and utility of AI in marketing. Brian argues that using AI to add elements like a sunset or a couple enjoying wine to a photo is acceptable as long as it represents an achievable reality for the guest and does not remove permanent eyesores like dumpsters. Elizabeth confirms she uses AI extensively for social media captions and brainstorming promotional ideas. Sandy adds that she recently used AI tools to remove obstructions from snowy landscape photos, while David mentions using ChatGPT to translate business communications into Spanish for clients in Costa Rica. MacKenzie admits she uses AI for coding in her day job but realizes she has been underutilizing it for her glamping marketing.

Looking ahead to 2026, Elizabeth asks for advice on developing a high-end farm stay, as she is planning a new project on a property with an old mill. This prompts a discussion on "agrotourism," with Kristin suggesting that miniature animals are a massive draw for guests. Brian utilizes an AI tool during the show to generate a blueprint for a high-end farm experience, which suggests focusing on participation rather than just observation. The AI proposes ideas such as guests gathering their own eggs, "consequence stakes" where guests understand the lifecycle of farm animals, and accommodations that serve as unique characters with their own backstories.

The conversation naturally flows into the challenges of food and beverage in remote glamping locations. Elizabeth notes that while restaurants have low margins, they are essential for the guest experience, and she currently utilizes a high-end meal kit partnership to solve this. David adds that art, such as murals on his glamping barrels, contributes to the "instagrammability" of a site, which is just as important as the amenities. The group agrees that while food service might not be a primary profit center, it is a vital amenity that allows operators to command higher nightly rates and increase occupancy.

In a roundtable segment, Sandy asks Kristin about key findings in her recent research. Kristin reveals that approximately 10% of sites in new RV resort developments are now dedicated to glamping, and that units with hot tubs or saunas command significantly higher rates. MacKenzie then shares details about her "mustang gentling retreat," a premium experience where guests pay to spend a week learning to tame a wild horse. This unique offering piques the interest of the group, with Brian jokingly asking Sandy to buy him a ticket for Christmas.

As the show wraps up, the guests share their holiday plans and final thoughts. Sandy predicts that 2026 will be a pivotal year for the RV industry, hoping for a return to 75-80% occupancy levels if parks adapt to new consumer demands. Brian teases upcoming research on Gen Z psychology, hinting that their hesitation to camp stems from a fear of embarrassment and a lack of childhood exposure to the outdoors. The episode concludes with Brian promoting a novelty AI-generated Christmas album for campground owners and wishing everyone a successful year ahead.

Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

2

My name is Brian Searl with Insider

Perks and Modern Campground.

3

Our last episode of the year.

4

This is the festive, best festive

thing I could do on short notice.

5

It's actually been here since last

year, so I didn't do any work.

6

It was just sitting in the right

hand side as the background.

7

Don't give me any credit

or anything like that.

8

But welcome, appreciate it.

9

December 17th, 2025.

10

We got two weeks off here for

the holidays after this, and then

11

we'll be back in early January.

12

But before we do, we're going to

have a great conversation here with

13

some of these special guests who have

been on our show throughout the year.

14

Let's just go around the room

and briefly introduce everybody.

15

Do you want to start, Kristin?

16

Kristin Andersen Garwood: I sure will.

17

I am Kristin Garwood with

Sage Outdoor Advisory.

18

We do feasibility studies and appraisals.

19

Along with we collect our own market data.

20

We have our own proprietary

database across the country.

21

That's what we do.

22

Brian Searl: Awesome.

23

Thanks for being here, Kristin.

24

Dave.

25

Just want to let you go before you get

another appointment in the showroom.

26

David Byers: Yeah.

27

Yeah, I'm the CVO, the Chief

Visionary Officer, and I have

28

four different companies.

29

Canadian Sleeping Barrels

for resorts and Airbnb.

30

Cedar Yurts, it's an insulated log

we invented to replace round tents.

31

One of a kind, we make barrel saunas.

32

And High-R Logs is the

insulated log company.

33

Howdy, everybody.

34

Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Dave.

35

Appreciate you coming back.

36

MacKenzie?

37

MacKenzie Whitsell: Hi,

I'm MacKenzie Whitsell.

38

I am the founder of Wild

Ride Mustang Sanctuary.

39

We're located in Sterling, Connecticut.

40

And we offer glamping as a way

to get people out here to see our

41

formerly wild horses and our herd

and experience nature and do so in

42

a little bit of luxury and comfort.

43

Brian Searl: Awesome.

44

Thanks for being here, MacKenzie.

45

And Elizabeth?

46

Elizabeth McIntosh: [No audio]

47

Brian Searl: Can't hear you, Elizabeth.

48

You seem to, you might be muted.

49

Elizabeth McIntosh: Is that better?

50

Brian Searl: That's better.

51

Yep.

52

Elizabeth McIntosh: I'm located up

near Toronto, Ontario, up in Canada.

53

And I'm a founder of a four-season

geodesic dome luxury glamping.

54

We have seven domes on site.

55

We've been open about three years.

56

Brian Searl: And you've, has

everybody been here before?

57

I know, Sandy, you have to

introduce yourself, but everybody's

58

been on the show before, right?

59

I'm just old and don't remember.

60

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yes.

61

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Yes.

62

Brian Searl: The only one I wasn't

sure about was you, Elizabeth.

63

That's why I asked.

64

Elizabeth McIntosh: I think it was back in

the summer with a girl from Cal—Clayoquot?

65

Brian Searl: Maybe.

66

Now you're even challenging me even more.

67

You're just going to embarrass

me more, so just stop.

68

Elizabeth McIntosh: Maybe

it was your Canadian show.

69

Yeah.

70

Brian Searl: Sandy, go ahead, please.

71

Sandy Ellingson: I'm Sandy Ellingson.

72

I serve as an advocate between

the RV industry and campgrounds.

73

My passion is my campgrounds.

74

We are, we have been in

the past full-time RVers.

75

Now we're on the road about

10 months out of the year.

76

And my background's technology.

77

So I like to rely on Brian

a lot for the latest in AI.

78

Brian Searl: And they're all

Canadian shows, by the way,

79

Elizabeth, because I'm in Calgary.

80

We just, once in a while

we have American shows.

81

All I appreciate you guys all being here.

82

Let's start off.

83

You've all been on the show before.

84

We've all talked a lot briefly

about your businesses and some

85

of the things you have going on.

86

So tell us, is there something that

87

this is a really memorable moment?

88

This is something you're proud of that

you accomplished in your businesses or

89

your lives that you'd like to share?

90

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Absolutely.

91

I'm happy to start.

92

Thanks.

93

We this past year, we put together I would

say at the beginning of the year, we put

94

together our first glamping market report.

95

We do a free US report and then we do

put together several states reports

96

that you can purchase on our website.

97

And we're actually about to

come out with our Q4 report.

98

We're really probably going to be

starting to blast that out in January.

99

And we just recently put out now

our RV market report for the US.

100

We also do it regionally.

101

It's a free US report that you can

just go to our website and download.

102

Not a problem.

103

And we're actually been really expanding

our proprietary database even more.

104

We've added hundreds of more

properties and units throughout the US.

105

So we're continuing to grow that.

106

And we're now looking to expand

internationally and put together some data

107

internationally for primarily glamping.

108

So that's some exciting stuff

we've got in the hopper.

109

Brian Searl: Awesome.

110

Who wants to go next?

111

David Byers: Yeah I'll go next.

112

For 30 years we've been doing barrels

sleeping barrels and barrel saunas.

113

And for the first time in 30 years,

we're now going to start building

114

rectangles and square saunas.

115

Brian Searl: Okay.

116

David Byers: Which is just totally blowing

the boys out of the water because they've

117

never had me ask them to do that ever.

118

And one of the things we do every

sale, we ask people to send in

119

their pictures and we do a calendar.

120

And if anyone wants a copy just send

me your address and I'll be happy to.

121

Brian Searl: Is it like a, is

it a fireman's calendar or is

122

it like a work safe calendar?

123

David Byers: It is one of our products.

124

So this here is one page.

125

That's a barrel sauna.

126

And you can see right here,

that's up at Whistler Mountain.

127

There's three up there and they get

about five feet of snow every year.

128

Brian Searl: Nice.

129

David Byers: I'll just show

you a couple of other pictures

130

that people have sent in.

131

That's in a person's backyard.

132

If you're wondering what a sleeping

barrel is, there is a sleeping barrel.

133

So the entire back wall

is a large acrylic bubble.

134

And everything now-a-day is

really heading toward ADA.

135

So we've also completed a

wheelchair accessible sauna.

136

Brian Searl: Okay, very nice.

137

David Byers: If you've never seen

what an insulated log is, there's a

138

small version of our insulated log.

139

Western red cedar on both sides of foam.

140

So it makes the building

for a sauna easier to heat.

141

Takes a lot less energy.

142

And for our Cedar Yurts,

we've married that up with a

143

standing seam grain bin roof.

144

So we're replacing soft wall yurts

and ours are good for a hundred

145

years in all kinds of weather.

146

Brian Searl: Dave, will

you send me a sauna?

147

I'm willing to do the show

from inside one every week.

148

David Byers: Yeah.

149

Sandy Ellingson: Me too.

150

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Yeah.

151

Me three.

152

David Byers: Saunas all around, yeah.

153

Brian Searl: Thank you, Dave.

154

I appreciate it.

155

Congratulations on the new products

and the new categories and stuff.

156

Who wants to go next?

157

Elizabeth McIntosh: I can go.

158

I feel like this year was big

where we completed our site plan.

159

We started with three domes

and our goal was seven.

160

So this was our year that we

finalized our max occupancy.

161

And now we're moving towards

creating different magical

162

moments around the property.

163

So we also opened a library in the forest

that guests can go and explore and enjoy.

164

And we also have been focusing

on expanding our staff

165

hiring managers this year.

166

So as owners, we can be

a lot more hands-off.

167

And we're starting to think towards a

second a second project within our area.

168

So in the beginning stages of planning

and negotiating a lease for a really cool

169

property about half an hour south of here.

170

Brian Searl: We all know how terrible

my memory is, so did we talk about how

171

far you are from Toronto last time?

172

Elizabeth McIntosh: Two hours.

173

Brian Searl: Two hours.

174

Okay.

175

North or northwest?

176

Elizabeth McIntosh:

Yeah, like northwest-ish.

177

Brian Searl: Okay.

178

So how, I'm interested, just talk

to us a little bit about winter.

179

Like how did, because obviously you're

not maybe as bad snow wise as Calgary and

180

Edmonton are in Toronto, I don't think.

181

But maybe, actually you are

northwest, you are, yeah, you are.

182

Sorry.

183

Elizabeth McIntosh: No, but where

we are—because of the lake effect.

184

We're around all the Great Lakes.

185

We might have six feet of snow

and Toronto might not have any.

186

So snow squalls are very

come and go in our area.

187

We're known as the snow belt.

188

So it, it actually is great.

189

We, our domes are very well insulated

and guests are very comfortable.

190

And so I find winter is very busy for us.

191

Like it sells out I find

quicker than the spring.

192

Like obviously summer and fall are also

busy, but winter is quite easy to sell.

193

As people want to experience a

snow globe and experience winter

194

glamping done in really comfortably.

195

Brian Searl: Is it more difficult or

easier to market an experience like that?

196

Because I think the general mindset

of a consumer is like that stuff's,

197

the outdoor camping, glamping stuff

is not available mostly in the winter.

198

Elizabeth McIntosh: I

have found it easier.

199

Like TikTok right now is

loving our winter glamping.

200

I feel like it's really blowing

up, which that doesn't always

201

happen in our summer content.

202

So I find it's actually easier to

romanticize because there isn't as

203

many unique things to do in the winter.

204

And so it's really standing

out in the algorithm.

205

Brian Searl: And is there anything that

you build as part of the experience

206

in addition to the accommodations?

207

Or you don't need to,

but I'm just curious.

208

Elizabeth McIntosh: Like we

have a sauna in the forest.

209

Like each dome has a private

hot tub, that obviously helps

210

with the winter experience.

211

And then like I said, we're just trying

to build different like moments around the

212

property that people can go and explore.

213

This library that we just opened.

214

TikTok also really likes it.

215

And I find it really drives bookings.

216

When people see an experience that is

really aesthetic that they want to see

217

that they want to come and check it out.

218

Brian Searl: Awesome.

219

Thank you, Elizabeth.

220

I appreciate it.

221

Who wants to go next?

222

We got two people left.

223

MacKenzie and Sandy can fight.

224

MacKenzie Whitsell: I'll

225

go.

226

We've done a lot of good stuff this year.

227

Getting the kind of infrastructure between

the different areas up and running.

228

So we have our horse area

and our glamping area.

229

And previously you'd have to walk

back through the parking lot and

230

go through the equestrian area.

231

So we basically took our big herd of wild

horses and split it right down the middle.

232

And made a fence on either side so that

people can walk from the camping area in

233

between the two herds of wild horses up

to what we call our pony petting pavilion.

234

Which is a wooden round pen

where the horses can come up and

235

you can pet them if they want.

236

And we do some training

demonstrations there.

237

And so that is, is going great.

238

And of course we had to do

like the magical lighting.

239

And so there's lights hanging throughout

the trail and along, along the path.

240

And it really, it's right by

our pond, so it really looks

241

beautiful all lit up at night.

242

Especially now that we have snow

and it's just very picturesque.

243

So that's been really great.

244

And yeah, just trying to, it's,

this was our first full season.

245

So trying to work out the kinks and

figure out scheduling for oh, how

246

often do we need to power wash the

domes and all of the nitty-gritty

247

of running a glamping resort while

also taking care of 30 horses.

248

Brian Searl: And are you guys

open in the winter or no?

249

MacKenzie Whitsell: We technically

are, but unlike Elizabeth, we have

250

not had a lot of success so far.

251

I haven't really been advertising

it that much because I'm still,

252

I want to make sure our guests

have a really great experience.

253

And so testing it out myself,

making sure that, even though our

254

domes are insulated, they have wood

stoves in them and we've had guests

255

comfortable in very low temperatures.

256

But little things like walking, we

don't have bathrooms in the domes.

257

So you have to walk to the bathhouse.

258

In the middle of the night, if it's

10 degrees out, like I don't want

259

to sell that luxury experience until

I am confident that people will

260

feel like it's a luxury experience.

261

But there are, there's definitely

the right demographic out there who's

262

looking for, to actually go outside

and to have to go outside, and you

263

walk by all the horses to get to the

bathroom and you are immersed in nature.

264

And it's a different experience than

the the snow globe where everything

265

you need is right in that spot.

266

You can sit by your panoramic window

and just watch all the things going on.

267

Yeah, I'm trying to dial in the

experience to get it as comfortable as

268

possible before I really hammer on the

advertising to get people out here.

269

So we've been getting feedback from

the couple of campers that we've had

270

that everything's been really nice.

271

So hopefully we'll ramp up soon and

get more people in here for the winter

272

because it is a magical experience

with the snow all around and the

273

horses running outside the window.

274

Brian Searl: Now you know, you did when

you're ready, TikTok is the answer.

275

MacKenzie Whitsell: Yeah.

276

Yeah.

277

I gotta get on TikTok.

278

Brian Searl: All right, Sandy.

279

Last but not least.

280

Sandy Ellingson: I'm just inspired by

these other ladies here and gentlemen,

281

but I love pouring into younger

people, so it's making me so excited

282

to listen to some of the younger people

and listen to what they're doing.

283

What I do is so much less

sexy than what you guys are

284

doing because I'm a data geek.

285

And so the excitement on my part is having

worked the last six months towards getting

286

us to a place where we're going to be

able to be proactive because of the data

287

we have access to instead of reactive.

288

And I'm super excited about that.

289

I'm really happy to see, Kristin,

I'm happy that you're doing

290

some additional research to see

people putting value in that.

291

And especially people that know our

industry that are doing the research

292

because so often I see people spend a lot

of money with a company who has absolutely

293

no idea what we do in outdoor hospitality.

294

And the data literally comes back and

it is, it's worthless because they

295

don't understand the perspective and the

culture of the guest that we're reaching.

296

I'm excited about the data, but I'm also

excited about being MacKenzie's guinea

297

pig because I'm a Southerner, so I'm

afraid of anything lower than 60 degrees.

298

But I'm willing to chance it for you.

299

MacKenzie Whitsell: Awesome.

300

Brian Searl: 60 degrees is death.

301

I don't know what area of the world

you live in, but the rest of us are

302

on Celsius and that's really hot.

303

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Oh, wait

I'm on Fahrenheit myself, but I

304

live in the Colorado mountains.

305

So I can I can take it.

306

I can take the cold.

307

Sandy Ellingson: And the other

thing I love is seeing the emphasis

308

on working with the horses.

309

I've worked with two campgrounds in the

last year that are both agrotourism parks.

310

And one of them has horses which

they are partnering people to

311

come in for equine therapy.

312

And it has been the neatest thing

to see how that is happening.

313

And what, the other thing that's so

interesting is his demographic when

314

he started this shifted from people

within 100 miles of where they're

315

located in Florida to now 90% of

his guests come from the Northeast.

316

And what the other thing that's so

interesting is doctors are sending them.

317

And they are coming because

they've never seen a horse.

318

They've never seen a cow.

319

They're coming from these densely

populated urban locations.

320

And so everything they do at this

particular park is so interesting.

321

So I love to see the growth of that.

322

Brian Searl: All right, does

anybody else have anything that

323

they feel like we should be talking

about before the year wraps up?

324

I've got a couple of other questions I can

ask, but I'm just curious if I throw it

325

open-ended if anybody wants to bring up

something that we haven't talked about.

326

Kristin Andersen Garwood:

Are you all going to be shy?

327

Sandy Ellingson: I want you to tell

us what you, what AI says is going

328

to happen to campgrounds next year.

329

Brian Searl: You don't want me to tell

you that in a pre-Christmas episode.

330

Sandy Ellingson: Oh, okay.

331

Brian Searl: You do not

want me to tell you that.

332

Outwired will talk a little

bit about it in January.

333

But it's a really interesting thought

process that we've run through and

334

we're going to start releasing some

industry reports, I think, as Outwired

335

because I feel like that's a nice, for

those of you who don't know, Outwired

336

is my other podcast that we it's

like my uncensored Joe Rogan style

337

podcast that I do with Scott Bahr.

338

And Ari Smith has been joining us too.

339

I don't know if Ari, Sandy.

340

He owns a $2,500 night glamping

resort in Northern Vermont.

341

And he has a background in, like he

went to MIT and so like he owns this big

342

huge AI consulting company that works

on like really high-end corporate stuff.

343

So he's been playing with like robot

dogs at his glamping resort and all

344

kinds of stuff hasn't worked and...

345

Elizabeth McIntosh:

What's his resort called?

346

Brian Searl: I don't know.

347

Oh no, I do know.

348

Ballance Farm.

349

Sorry.

350

I was testing my memory.

351

Ballance Farm.

352

I think it's Ballance.farm

353

is the website.

354

And so anyway, Outwired is that podcast,

but I think we want to use it as

355

more of a vehicle too, in addition to

the podcast to release some industry

356

reports that are intentionally done

with, like thoughtfully and carefully

357

with critical thinking, but by AI.

358

And almost release like AI's opinion

of things and see what, how close

359

AI is to the future and what data

points it can discern and stuff.

360

Radically different from the

really strategic stuff that

361

Kristin is doing, right?

362

But I think Outwired is a good

vehicle for that speculation.

363

And it would be interesting to have

that stuff out there if done I think.

364

Kristin Andersen Garwood:

Oh, AI is so amazing.

365

It really just, we do a lot of still

very hands-on analysis and work.

366

But, just having AI give us

some general overview too.

367

And we're trying to, incorporate

that, make sure that we don't

368

fall behind the times too.

369

So we are definitely

focusing too on, on AI.

370

We're still seeing and maybe it's all

doom and gloom, I love the idea of

371

what MacKenzie and Elizabeth are doing.

372

So Elizabeth has been really

utilizing social media, right?

373

To get that out there.

374

And really that is one of the

items that we stress is marketing.

375

Marketing is so important to new or

wanting just to keep up with the Joneses

376

for glamping resorts, RV resorts.

377

And then also, having something unique

with what MacKenzie is doing with the

378

horses and the horse therapy and having

just just something different and unique

379

that, you will draw people back again

and again is so key I think to future

380

success with a lot of these developments.

381

Sandy Ellingson: And you, Kristin, going

along with what you've said, one of the

382

things that I've found especially in

communicating in the outdoor hospitality

383

industry, because we have so many parks

that are still owned by mom and pops.

384

Old model.

385

When they hear marketing, they

think I gotta pay for paper clicks,

386

I've gotta do, all of this stuff.

387

And what I've tried to do is stress

more of what I believe you're doing,

388

Elizabeth, which is engagement.

389

And when TikTok first came out,

everybody was looking at how

390

are we going to monetize it.

391

And they still have no real

clear monetization model, but

392

they are killing it, right?

393

But it's because of the engagement.

394

And so I think it's so important and

I think this is where at some point we

395

will use AI to kick its butt because

while I know Brian can be very negative,

396

I can be very positive because I love

to take AI and twist it and use it.

397

In fact, I literally had this

situation this week where I was

398

using an AI bot that I've trained.

399

I asked it a question and

it happened to be one that I

400

absolutely knew it was wrong.

401

And I said, you gave me this

answer, it's absolutely wrong.

402

Did you lie?

403

And it came back and said, I didn't

have an answer so I made something up.

404

Literally that was the response from AI.

405

I did a screenshot and cracked up, right?

406

So it's still, it's coming, but

it's got a little ways to go.

407

But I do think there are so many ways

we can use it to improve what we're

408

doing, to make it us be able to do

it faster, and to do it on our own

409

without paying somebody to do it for us.

410

So I, yeah, so building engagement

is where I would say is the

411

most important thing we can do.

412

Brian Searl: Don't throw

me under the bus too much.

413

Like I'm just, I'm a realist.

414

I'm really not negative.

415

I'm actually optimistic about the future.

416

But I'm realist about how we get there.

417

Sandy Ellingson: You set yourself

up to make us think you were going

418

to give us a negative picture.

419

So that's why I said that.

420

Brian Searl: I did that, to be fair,

I did that off air before we started,

421

like not in front of the whole audience.

422

But all I will, we'll release

the, we'll release the data and I

423

hope, like I, I hope it's all bad.

424

Or I hope I'm wrong.

425

I hope I'm wrong about what

the data is what I mean.

426

Sandy Ellingson: I have at least

already said too, Brian, that I lean

427

on you because I do think you are

one of the forethought leaders in

428

AI and have been speaking to this

issue for longer than anybody else.

429

And so I do really appreciate it

and I appreciate that you brought

430

me along kicking and screaming.

431

Brian Searl: All right

let's talk positive then.

432

Elizabeth, what's something really

cool and positive you've done with AI?

433

For your business or your personal life?

434

Whatever you want to talk about.

435

Elizabeth McIntosh: I just use AI a

lot for my marketing on social media.

436

So making reels, captions,

promotional ideas.

437

I find it, it's very

creative to brainstorm with.

438

If you're coming up with a promotion

for a season, it helps me like

439

fine tune what an idea would be.

440

Really good with wording.

441

It's basically just like a

marketing assistant writing

442

emotion, email promotions.

443

I find it's really good with words.

444

When you're selling an experience

and an emotion it does that for you.

445

Brian Searl: I think it's really

interesting for promotional photos.

446

And before you guys attack me

because like obviously you can't

447

have a fake photo of your property.

448

Elizabeth McIntosh: Oh, yeah.

449

Brian Searl: If you take a still photo

of your property, and we've done this

450

dozens and dozens of times for clients.

451

If you take a still photo of your

property that you had a professional

452

photograph, photographer take, like

an empty RV site or the outside

453

of a cabin that nobody's therein.

454

And you take that into Gemini, into their

new Nano Banana Pro image model, you can

455

literally prompt it and say put a couple,

I had a this is the last one I did.

456

Put a couple outside sitting

with a glass of wine at sunset.

457

And it turned the sky sunset, and it

put the cl—the couple outside sitting

458

at the picnic table that was already

in front of the cabin with a wine

459

glass, like sitting there naturally.

460

To me, that's no different than hiring

a paid actor to come for a photo shoot.

461

It is real, it's not deceptive,

because a couple can reserve that

462

cabin, go there, sit at that picnic

table, have a glass of wine, and have

463

that exact same experience at sunset.

464

So those kinds of things I think

are really good use cases for AI.

465

Like just push the

limits of what it can do.

466

And it's really int—and then you can

take that whole thing and by the way you

467

can turn it into a video in Gemini too.

468

Elizabeth McIntosh: That's cool.

469

Yeah.

470

Sandy Ellingson: I

471

was just going to say I used that

exact same tool this past week when

472

I was in Indiana and it was seven

degrees and we had 12 inches of snow.

473

Of course, again, I'm the

Southern girl so I'm like snow!

474

And and I was taking

all kinds of pictures.

475

And some of them were great except

there was the crappy car that was in the

476

way, or there was the telephone pole.

477

And so I just said, hey,

remove this, add this.

478

And I got some of the best pictures ever.

479

I may become a photographer.

480

Brian Searl: It's a good idea.

481

You should.

482

Kristin Andersen Garwood: And hey, the

mom and pops out there, Sandy, really,

483

they need to, add better photos to their

websites and, all that kind of thing.

484

And it doesn't have to be a super

expensive, type, you don't always

485

need a professional photographer

or maybe just come out and do a

486

simple shoot and then go from there.

487

And I think the advocacy of getting

the mom and pops up to speed on

488

some things, can only help them.

489

Brian Searl: That's the

win right there, right?

490

Like you, like again I'm not

dissing professional photographers.

491

Like I used to actually, the beginning

of Insider Perks was me going

492

around to campgrounds and KOAs and

taking photos and videos for people.

493

So I'm kicking my own

butt when I say this.

494

But you absolutely do not need a

professional photographer anymore.

495

There's nothing that you need

a professional photographer

496

for at a campground.

497

Because you can walk around with your

cell phone and even if you're not a

498

great photographer and you don't trace

the outsides of the lines, and even if

499

the photo is crooked, all you have to

do is take 80 different shots of every

500

single site that you have and amenity.

501

It doesn't matter who's in it or

what the sky looks like or like

502

maybe if it's raining and it

gets all over the lens, right?

503

But other than that on a nice sunny

day, just go around and do this.

504

And then you can straighten the photo,

you can change the sky, you can put

505

people in the picture like I'm just

talking about with wine glasses.

506

Not deceptive.

507

Do not remove the dumpster

that's next to somebody's site.

508

Don't mislead people.

509

But if you're authentic with it, it's

no different than doing paid actors.

510

And you, there's no reason that you need

a professional photographer anymore.

511

You can hand those off to somebody, maybe

your website developer, maybe somebody who

512

knows how to use AI really well, and they

can return back to you a suite of photos

513

that you can use in so many different

places on social media and marketing

514

and blog posts and email marketing

and your website and everywhere else.

515

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah.

516

And the cool thing is so much

of this technology is free.

517

And then on top of that, it

truly is just talk to it, right?

518

You don't have to know coding language,

you don't have to speak in a certain way.

519

You just sit down and say,

hey, this is what I'm thinking.

520

This is what I want to have.

521

And the more you can just have a

conversation with it, the better

522

the results are going to be.

523

And pretty much everybody can do that.

524

Brian Searl: The easiest way you can do

this, anybody who's listening to this or

525

anybody who's a guest on the show, the

easiest way you can do this, go to Gemini,

526

or go to ChatGPT, or go to Claude, which

is the best one in my opinion for coding.

527

Go there and just say, I want your

help coding game, website, app,

528

to-do list, task, calculator, sliding

website thing that compares properties

529

in Texas, like whatever else.

530

And have it say and come up with a prompt

that you want to design and say improve

531

this prompt, make it better for me.

532

Like I don't want you to execute, I

just want you to improve the prompt.

533

And then at the end say use Canvas or

select the tool, they all have Canvas.

534

Gemini has a Canvas tool, Claude has a

Canvas tool, ChatGPT has a Canvas tool.

535

And say code it for me.

536

And it will code it for you and it

will preview it on the right hand side.

537

And you can play the game in

your browser or you can play, you

538

can navigate the sliders on an

interactive website in your browser.

539

We had the whole team do this morning

as part of our AI, like we have

540

weekly AI training with the team.

541

And we all vibe coded together for

an hour and a half this morning.

542

And they made super cool like to-do task

lists and memory matching games and half

543

these people have no idea how to code.

544

But the amount of eyes that will open

in your brain like, wow, if I can do

545

that, if I can create my own video

game, I can do almost anything with AI.

546

So that's what I would do first if you

were trying to get people involved.

547

Who else has done something cool?

548

Dave, what have you done

with AI at your business?

549

David Byers: We were doing some marketing

in Costa Rica and I sent off a reply

550

but I put it through ChatGPT first.

551

And AI actually asked me if I

wanted it in Spanish as well.

552

And I, it was just mind blowing

because I hadn't even thought of that.

553

And I'm in marketing and sales.

554

Brian Searl: Yeah, the amount of

things that I do every day that I

555

don't think about, that AI is like.

556

That's why I put, in my AI I

put use the Socratic method.

557

And at the end of it, it'll always

ask me like three questions that

558

I didn't think about before.

559

Oh, I had no idea that I

should ask that, right?

560

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Oh,

that's a great idea, Brian.

561

I'm going to start us—I'm

going to steal that.

562

Brian Searl: Yeah, it's really good.

563

MacKenzie, anything fun you've done?

564

MacKenzie Whitsell: I, you know what, I'm

listening to all you guys and I'm totally

565

slacking on the AI because and it's crazy.

566

I use it at work, my day job.

567

So I have a day job as a business

consultant and software developer.

568

And I'm not even mad that AI

is going to replace my job of

569

writing code because it's I can

get so much done so much faster.

570

I'm like, hey, write these, this

subroutine or my terrible messy code and

571

I just put it in there and hey, can you

make, refactor this and make it better?

572

And it just rewrites everything

and comes up with the, these

573

ideas that I didn't think of.

574

And it's magic.

575

And now I'm realizing I'm really missing

a lot of opportunities to use it to

576

market the glamping because even just

the pictures do you know I, I always got,

577

have my phone with me and I'm out there

like trying to catch the perfect image.

578

And oh no, I, my battery is at 3% and I'm

like, wow I could have just had a computer

579

get the perfect image out of the very many

plain photos of here are the domes and

580

make it sunset, make it snowy, add people.

581

So yeah, I gotta get on that

because I do rely heavily on AI

582

for lots of things, but I'm not

not using it to its full potential.

583

Brian Searl: It's really interesting

to me how some people view this

584

because there's for sure like this,

there's two sides of people everywhere.

585

The "that is not authentic, that's

a lie, people, if you add photos,

586

if you change it with AI," right?

587

But to me like, again, I've

mentioned the actors already.

588

But like you can have a professional

photographer do the same thing with

589

real guests if they're at your property.

590

But still anybody who comes after

those guests is never going to

591

have that exact same experience.

592

The weather's not going to be the same.

593

The horse is going to

be in the same position.

594

It might be happy, it might be sad.

595

It might be muddy, it might not be.

596

They, like it might be cold or warm.

597

Like they're never going to

have that exact experience.

598

So I think as long as you're making

sure that they can have that, like

599

they can still see the horses, they

can still get in that position, they

600

can still, walk that way or experience

the glamping domes or whatever, right?

601

As long as it's authentic.

602

As long as they can replicate 95%

of the experience in your photo and

603

none of it's deceptive and there's no

dumpster gone like I talked about, right?

604

I think it's fine.

605

I, obviously that's my opinion.

606

Lots of people argue with me, but I

don't see any problem with it whatsoever.

607

Sandy Ellingson: I've got a friend that,

he's a technology person, has about 200

608

people working for him out of Chicago.

609

And one of the things he's doing

just so that people will know the

610

difference, and he's also really big

in AI, is he's chal—he's created his

611

own AI bot and his name is Ricardo.

612

And so if he does an image or a

video or anything like that, he signs

613

it and says Spencer and Ricardo.

614

And so that way people know, and

that Ricardo had a part in this.

615

Or if they want to know they'll ask.

616

But he can always say, look, I am

defining all of my AI with a signature.

617

And so I thought that

was a pretty cool idea.

618

Brian Searl: All right, Elizabeth, what's

619

you're going to do new or different or

you're looking forward to accomplishing?

620

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, like I

said, we're starting another project.

621

So what that may look like.

622

I've been, I'm curious if Kristin has

any insight to like farm hospitality.

623

I've seen a little bit on Instagram

that like really elevated high-end farm

624

hospitality is trending over in Europe.

625

For this like high-scale experience

except there's yeah, micro

626

ag—agriculture and goats and sheep

involved and things like that.

627

So this property that we

have is like an old mill.

628

And there is a couple acres in the back

up underneath like the big escarpment.

629

So it is very beautiful.

630

So yeah, and I'm just trying, we're

just trying to brainstorm the vision

631

of exactly that would look like.

632

But yeah, what have you heard about

agrotourism and more on a high-end scale

633

than a more in the glam than the not.

634

Kristin Andersen Garwood: I definitely

think it can very much go hand in hand.

635

Especially if you put anything

mini in your on your farm.

636

Mini donkeys, mini goats.

637

I'm not kidding.

638

Anything mini and people just...

639

Elizabeth McIntosh: miniature.

640

Kristin Andersen Garwood:

Yeah, and people eat that up.

641

And I mean I eat it up.

642

I'm a sucker for it myself.

643

And people really want to see, where's

the food coming from or and just even

644

having say some moments like some

areas here and there where people can

645

just sit and relax and be with the

farm or the agrotourism and just enjoy

646

it and really truly, understand it.

647

I think is great.

648

But quite honestly, yeah,

anything where people can be

649

involved with cute farm animals.

650

It's very successful.

651

Yeah.

652

And sets itself apart.

653

It's more unique.

654

And it's fun.

655

Elizabeth McIntosh: So yeah,

looking forward to maybe

656

developing that vision more.

657

I think 2026 will be the year that

we build it and hopefully opening in

658

2027.

659

Brian Searl: I put this into, I put this

into Claude in case you're interested.

660

I said, how do you build a

high-end glamping experience?

661

I'm about two hours northwest of Toronto.

662

Need 20,000 foot view, like

a abstract view, right?

663

Not details.

664

Highlights, ways to be really different

and unique and immersed in it.

665

Blueprint for not the

same high-end farm stay.

666

Is that fair?

667

Elizabeth McIntosh: Sure.

668

Brian Searl: Okay.

669

So it says, the core thesis, sell

transformation, not accommodation.

670

Every glamping operation

sells luxury and nature.

671

That's table stakes.

672

The ones that survive the coming

contraction will sell identity and story.

673

Experiences guests can't replicate

and can't stop talking about.

674

Four pillars of differentiation.

675

Working farm as a theater, not backdrop.

676

Most farm stays treat the farm as scenery.

677

Flip it, make guests participants

in the living production.

678

Scheduled farm rhythms.

679

Guests can join, not just pet a goat.

680

6:00 AM egg collection, evening

animal feeding, seasonal harvests,

681

cider pressing and cheese making.

682

Elizabeth McIntosh: That's cute.

683

Brian Searl: Consequence stakes.

684

Let them name a chicken they helped raise.

685

Send them updates.

686

When it becomes dinner six months

later, they understand food differently.

687

Seasonal scarcity.

688

Different experiences generally

unavailable at different times.

689

No fake always available menu.

690

March lambing is March lambing.

691

The goal is guests leave with a

skill or story, not just photos.

692

Elizabeth McIntosh: Right.

693

Brian Searl: You want more or are we done?

694

Is that interesting?

695

Elizabeth McIntosh: No, that,

yeah, that does make sense of.

696

Because yeah, that's what we've learned

too is like people come back because they

697

have a story to tell when they leave.

698

And it wasn't just a nice

place to sleep, right?

699

Brian Searl: Accommodations

700

as characters.

701

Stop

702

thinking tent types and start thinking

named experiences with personalities.

703

Each structure has a name, a

backstory, and a design philosophy.

704

One might be a restored 1890s

grainery, another a modernist

705

glass cube overlooking a meadow.

706

A third an underground earth shelter.

707

No two should feel interchangeable.

708

Guests should debate about

which to book next time.

709

Design for the arc of the day.

710

Morning light, afternoon

reading spot, evening fire

711

ritual, and night sky framing.

712

Commission local artists to create one

of a kind installations at each site.

713

The accommodation is the art.

714

Kristin Andersen Garwood: I, I would agree

with that to a point where you do need

715

to have some kind of scale like maybe

you have a few of those, a different

716

say I'll call them premier units.

717

But then you also have to make sure that

if you say have more than a few units

718

or, less than 10, you want to make sure

that your cleaning crew can get through

719

there and easily flip them and turn them.

720

So you need some consistencies

with at least some of the units.

721

But I very much agree with that

like you want to have people to

722

come back and enjoy an experience.

723

You're right.

724

Not a tent.

725

Or, a unit and that's it.

726

It's an experience.

727

David Byers: It's funny you mention

that because one of the things that

728

we're we've been doing that's very

successful is we have a muralist.

729

And we're doing murals on the

front of our sleeping barrels.

730

Brian Searl: Nice.

731

David Byers: And basically guests

don't take pictures of mattresses.

732

They take pictures of experiences.

733

And this way the campground

is becoming a photo gallery

734

and it's very instagrammable.

735

And the guests are coming back.

736

Last time they slept in the

sleepy the surfer girl barrel.

737

Now they want to sleep in the mud

room or the dancing bear barrel or.

738

Each one is has a story.

739

So they're immersed in the story, not

just a mattress and a place to sleep.

740

Brian Searl: Will you have

any food service, Elizabeth?

741

Elizabeth McIntosh: In

our at our new place?

742

Brian Searl: Yeah.

743

Were you thinking about it?

744

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, like we don't

have any experience in restaurant.

745

And anything I hear about the

restaurant industry sounds awful.

746

Or just like it's not very lucrative.

747

Brian Searl: Just hard.

748

Elizabeth McIntosh: No, just really hard.

749

Really hard, not very big margins.

750

But I also know food is a

huge part of the experience.

751

Right now we ha—we don't have any food

on site at Back Forty, but we do a

752

partnership with a restaurant that's

local and they do meals for our guests.

753

They've come up with like really good ways

to preserve because everything is frozen

754

that we have on site, but they've come up

with really good ways to preserve these

755

like high-end meals that are so good.

756

And so basically it's like a

Hello Fresh kit, but with like

757

less steps for our guests.

758

So it comes already made, but there's just

like a one step either reheating method

759

or combining method that they have to do.

760

So they still cook a little bit in

the dome but it's like very minimal.

761

So obviously we already have that

model for this location to be able

762

to replicate it at the next one.

763

But if we're going to lean

into farm tourism, I'm sure a

764

restaurant has to do with that.

765

Just a matter of, I find it's like

we built Back Forty just like me, my

766

husband and his brother and sister.

767

And I feel like it's one thing to

do business with family, but now

768

when we're branching into finding

business partners with people with

769

expertise in other areas, obviously

feels a little bit more daunting.

770

Brian Searl: Food is interesting to me.

771

Like I, I went to Ireland probably a

month and a half ago, two months ago now.

772

And we went to a glamping resort

called Finn Lough and it was on a

773

lake and they had like just your

like bubble domes and some cabins.

774

But it was on a massive property,

like I don't know how many acres.

775

And we, but you could walk to dinner

and they had a high-end like five star

776

chef that was like, it was a really nice

upscale restaurant with $150 bottles

777

of wine and stuff like that, right?

778

But that, like in the, they

were in the middle of nowhere,

779

so it helped them a little bit.

780

But that's basically like they

had 30, 40 accommodations.

781

They had almost guaranteed

dinner every night.

782

And that, it really elevated

the experience for us.

783

There was a lot more to do

there, but that was a big part.

784

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, I guess

you need to have higher unit numbers

785

to be able to fuel a restaurant.

786

Brian Searl: Yeah.

787

Yeah.

788

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Yeah.

789

And you also have to look at really F&B

really, you, it sometimes can even lose

790

a little bit of money, but if you don't

have any say services say in a five to

791

10 minute drive, it's really more about

consider it another amenity, right?

792

It's going to drive people to want to stay

there and come back because they're not

793

wanting or to maybe cook or do anything

like that, but it's just another service.

794

And so you know we see

this time and time again.

795

So many people, so many developers

are like, okay, you know what

796

kind of, what kind of net profit

can I really see from F&B?

797

And quite honestly it's minimal.

798

But what it can do is it can raise your

rates and it can raise your occupancy.

799

And so that's somewhat what offsets it.

800

Elizabeth McIntosh: So I guess it's

figuring out what your business model

801

is with that partnership though.

802

Because obviously if they're not

going to make any profit, your

803

food and beverage partner, like

they're obviously going to want to

804

share in your accommodation profit.

805

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Definitely.

806

Brian Searl: This is what AI says.

807

This is where farm stay becomes

unassailable competitive

808

advantage is the food.

809

Radical transparency.

810

Guests see the animal, the

field, and the process.

811

Dinner isn't farm to table,

it's that lamb you helped move

812

to the pasture this morning.

813

That would be dicey, but.

814

Chef residency.

815

Elizabeth McIntosh: That's quick.

816

Brian Searl: Rotating notable

chefs who design menus around

817

what's available that week.

818

Participatory dining, not

cooking classes, overdone.

819

Think guests forage with a guide and

chef incorporates it into dinner.

820

They contributed to the meal.

821

And preserved scarcity.

822

Some things can only exist here.

823

Heritage breed pork you can't buy.

824

Cheese aged in your root cellar.

825

A specific apple variety.

826

The wealthy don't want nice dinner,

they want unreplicable provenance.

827

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Very true.

828

I would agree with that.

829

And it's just a matter of too is

there a restaurant say in the area

830

where possibly they can help you

out and it's like a win-win, maybe

831

they and it's maybe they make enough

margin on what they're providing you

832

and you just break even potentially.

833

Elizabeth McIntosh: I'm still listening.

834

I'm just going to turn off

my camera to feed my baby.

835

But I'm still here.

836

Brian Searl: What do you think, MacKenzie?

837

MacKenzie Whitsell: I was just thinking

about this because that is one of

838

the biggest challenges that we have

is like there's no food near here.

839

And we don't provide it.

840

So guests sometimes ask ahead of time,

oh, what do you recommend for food?

841

And it's bring a cooler

full of grillable meats.

842

And we've got, barbecue stations and

fire pits and whatnot, but that's pretty

843

much, I, there's one pizza restaurant

right down the street and we actually

844

do collaborate with them quite a bit

and they help us host fundraisers

845

and do bigger scale stuff like that.

846

But we're in the middle of nowhere.

847

And it's, I'm trying to think of

good ways to elevate that experience.

848

In the past we've worked with a

company that does like the take and

849

bake meals that are like higher end.

850

So we've done that in the past, but it's

not like a very seamless experience.

851

So trying to figure out the best

option because I think that is one

852

of the barriers to having people book

is okay, but if we come there for a

853

weekend bringing all the food that we

need in and all of the cooking stuff.

854

We provide some basic pots and

pans and grilling tools and things

855

like that, but it's a challenge

that we are have to deal with.

856

Brian Searl: I think you know,

and we know the answer now, right?

857

Like it's AI, but it's iterating

with AI like we just did.

858

AI is not always going to be right.

859

It's not going to be perfect.

860

It's not always going

to have the best answer.

861

But it's going to spark a discussion

just like we did where Kristin will

862

add to it, MacKenzie will add to

it, Elizabeth will add to it, Sandy

863

will add to it, Dave will add to it.

864

And then we'll come to a

oh, this is perfect for me.

865

Now I've got, right?

866

I've gone back and forth with it.

867

I've refined it.

868

That's the beauty of it.

869

And you said you already

know it for your work, right?

870

So there's, the answer to your

problem will come out of it

871

if you iterate with it enough.

872

MacKenzie Whitsell: Yeah.

873

Brian Searl: All right let's do

our last our kind of new segment.

874

Sandy, you haven't been

a part of this yet.

875

For the last 15-ish minutes we typically

do now a kind of roundtable where

876

we'll say like, all right, each person

can ask one other person a question.

877

So Sandy, if we pick you first, you can

ask anybody here the guests, Kristin,

878

MacKenzie, Elizabeth, or David, a question

that you would like to hear them answer.

879

Once, if you pick David, Sandy, then

nobody else can ask David a question,

880

then David asks somebody else a question.

881

We'll do process of

elimination all the way down.

882

Sandy Ellingson: Okay, I want

to ask Kristin a question.

883

Kristin Andersen Garwood: All right.

884

Sandy Ellingson: What were the top two

things that you saw in the research

885

that you just did that just blew

your mind and everybody should know?

886

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Oh, great.

887

Okay.

888

I actually had pulled up our report.

889

And this is I'm just going

to talk about our RV report.

890

We do have a separate glamping report.

891

But, some of the big things okay, we're

seeing, and this is our sample size which

892

again, doesn't include everything, it's a

large enough sample size that we can get a

893

really good indicator of what's going on.

894

So right now we're seeing about 10% of the

sites or units are going to be glamping

895

is what we're seeing right now at RV

resorts or parks across the country.

896

And, but and we are seeing

that starting to shift more.

897

So as the new ones get built, we

are seeing glamping become more

898

important because it's becoming an

alternative if not everybody has, an RV.

899

And it's just makes it a much more

seamless process to get say the

900

groups together or other people.

901

And we're seeing some of the big

developers focus on this more.

902

So that's one piece of data we're seeing.

903

And I just want to see and then there's

a substantial say average rate difference

904

between concrete pads and loose gravel.

905

That's not nothing new.

906

But that's over 10%, about

15% that we're seeing.

907

And we're also seeing how having hot

tubs or saunas specifically at units

908

and having that component can really

boost your rates compared to, other

909

developments or projects out there too.

910

So that's what I'm seeing.

911

Brian Searl: Your turn, Kristin.

912

Ask anybody a question.

913

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Okay.

914

Let's see.

915

I would love to hear a little bit more

about if, David, are you still there?

916

Brian Searl: Okay.

917

MacKenzie.

918

Kristin Andersen Garwood: I would love

to hear a little bit more about how your

919

guests stay involved with the horses.

920

I know you mentioned the feeding.

921

Is there any other ideas that

maybe you had in mind to use the

922

horses to bring in more people?

923

MacKenzie Whitsell: Yeah, so we

have a lot of different experiences

924

that we offer with the horses.

925

We offer wild horse hiking, which is where

we hike the trails inside their habitat.

926

And so it's really a one of a kind

experience because our herd is made up

927

of horses that are ranged from totally

wild and you can't touch them to like

928

very friendly beginner lesson ponies.

929

And they're all mustangs.

930

And so it's always a fun surprise

when like our wildest one, Hank, comes

931

up to the group slowly and some, and

someone reaches out a hand and he sniffs

932

it and that happens once in a while

and it's such a magical experience.

933

So we have the hiking with them.

934

And we also have a wild horse safari.

935

So we like this idea because

it's great for accessibility too.

936

So if someone can't really hike through

the trails we have a Land Rover like

937

your typical safari with the open back.

938

And they we can have people pile in the

back and do the same thing but from the

939

safety of a vehicle, which is also great

if you're afraid of horses because they

940

can't really climb in there with you.

941

So it's great because you can

reach right out and pet them.

942

So yeah, we have a lot of different

experiences that we offer and letting

943

people learn how to train the mustangs.

944

So our biggest feature every

year is our one week intensive

945

mustang gentling retreat, which

we're planning for this year.

946

And that's for people who want the

experience of taming a wild mustang

947

that no one has ever touched.

948

And so we pick up a load of mustangs and

bring them back and we put these people

949

up in our domes and then it's a whole,

so we start out with yoga and breakfast.

950

We have an onsite yoga studio, which

is a clear geo dome in the forest.

951

And then we go and work with the horses

and do some training demonstrations and

952

do some like arts and crafts and stuff.

953

So that is a really cool immersive

experience that you really can't get many

954

places of oh, I have no horse experience,

but I'm going to tame a wild mustang.

955

Brian Searl: I want to do that.

956

Kristin Andersen Garwood: I know.

957

Brian Searl: How much does that cost?

958

How much does it cost, seriously?

959

MacKenzie Whitsell: I think the, it, it's

thr—thr—about $3,000 for the full package.

960

Brian Searl: Sandy, will you buy me one?

961

I don't have enough money.

962

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah.

963

I'm going to send it to you for Christmas.

964

Brian Searl: Thank you.

965

I appreciate it.

966

Okay.

967

Kristin Andersen Garwood: That would

be a great TikTok experience to do

968

some filming on and get that out there.

969

I could see that going viral in a second.

970

MacKenzie Whitsell: Yeah.

971

Brian Searl: Yep.

972

Yeah.

973

All right, MacKenzie, your turn.

974

Anybody but Kristin, you

can ask a question to.

975

MacKenzie Whitsell: Okay.

976

Let's see.

977

David, I have so many questions

for you, but most of them are,

978

what, how can I make one of your

beautiful saunas affordable to me?

979

Because I would love to have

something like that on the property.

980

So I'm trying to think of how

do I put that into a question

981

that helps our audience as well

of like, how about price points?

982

Do you have like fancier

versions or more basic versions?

983

Or are they all basically the

same shell and same price point?

984

David Byers: No, we have two different

diameters, six foot and seven foot.

985

And we start off in lengths

at eight feet and go up to 16.

986

The price points in Canadian dollars the

small one is six foot diameter by eight

987

foot with a heater is 8,500 Canadian.

988

Brian Searl: That's not bad.

989

David Byers: That's about

6,500 US or 7,000 US.

990

And then it goes up to 20,000 from there

depending if you want two-tier seating,

991

if you want the bench in the bubble.

992

A lot of women on a nice warm winter day,

they just go out and use it as a she shed.

993

They just lay down in the

bubble and read a book.

994

And we also have backrests.

995

You pull the tabs out and they

convert into a sleeping insert.

996

So you can put people up overnight

or unexpected company shows up

997

or you like to do hot yoga or

just lay down while you sauna.

998

MacKenzie Whitsell: Sounds amazing.

999

Brian Searl: Is that as expensive as you

thought it was going to be, MacKenzie?

00:51:55,869 --> 00:51:59,369

MacKenzie Whitsell: It's hard running

a business and running a nonprofit

00:51:59,369 --> 00:52:05,179

mustang sanctuary because whenever we

get funds in, it's so hard to not put

00:52:05,489 --> 00:52:07,519

them immediately to all the mustangs.

00:52:07,559 --> 00:52:12,179

So it's a balance I need to strike because

the glamping is what supports the mustang.

00:52:12,179 --> 00:52:15,799

So if I invest in the glamping

and have more of a secure revenue,

00:52:16,129 --> 00:52:17,659

it's going to feed the mustangs.

00:52:18,159 --> 00:52:19,729

But it's this week I need a load of hay.

00:52:20,109 --> 00:52:21,869

So that's where all the money's going.

00:52:23,519 --> 00:52:24,089

Brian Searl: Goes right

out the door to the horses.

00:52:24,089 --> 00:52:25,039

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Well,

MacKenzie, you can raise your

00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:26,839

rates if you get a sauna on site.

00:52:26,859 --> 00:52:30,309

So that should offset it because that's

what our, that's what our data shows.

00:52:32,909 --> 00:52:33,199

MacKenzie Whitsell: Yeah.

00:52:33,619 --> 00:52:33,969

Wonderful.

00:52:34,039 --> 00:52:35,119

David Byers: I'll work

a good deal with you.

00:52:35,859 --> 00:52:36,189

MacKenzie Whitsell: Yeah.

00:52:37,309 --> 00:52:37,899

Brian Searl: All right, David.

00:52:37,909 --> 00:52:41,579

You can ask anybody but Kristin

or MacKenzie a question.

00:52:43,029 --> 00:52:44,789

We got Elizabeth or Sandy.

00:52:44,829 --> 00:52:46,719

Maybe Elizabeth, I don't know

if Elizabeth can talk or not.

00:52:48,939 --> 00:52:50,756

David Byers: No if I have no questions.

00:52:51,036 --> 00:52:54,396

If anybody is interested

in any information or

00:52:54,396 --> 00:52:56,136

whatever, just email me or...

00:52:56,186 --> 00:52:56,656

Brian Searl: we'll do that.

00:52:56,656 --> 00:52:59,736

But ask a question that you want to know

the answer to from Elizabeth or Sandy.

00:53:00,256 --> 00:53:01,326

Anything you want to ask them.

00:53:01,716 --> 00:53:04,006

David Byers: Where's the basement

in a three-story building?

00:53:07,606 --> 00:53:09,106

I don't have any questions.

00:53:10,756 --> 00:53:11,566

Brian Searl: All right.

00:53:12,406 --> 00:53:14,396

All right, Elizabeth, do you

have a question for anybody?

00:53:14,496 --> 00:53:15,286

Or for Sandy?

00:53:15,286 --> 00:53:16,436

Or for D—yeah, for Sandy.

00:53:17,066 --> 00:53:17,636

That you can think of?

00:53:19,056 --> 00:53:19,746

Elizabeth McIntosh: Huh.

00:53:19,746 --> 00:53:22,326

I'm trying to think about RV life.

00:53:23,546 --> 00:53:30,196

I can't say it's my expertise, but do

you see any trends happening with the

00:53:30,196 --> 00:53:37,316

younger generation trying to get like

trendy RVs and doing the Airstream thing?

00:53:37,336 --> 00:53:43,006

Or do you find RV resorts are still mainly

your retired demographic or families?

00:53:45,846 --> 00:53:46,336

Sandy Ellingson: Oh, no.

00:53:46,346 --> 00:53:46,676

We're seeing a lot of, and I see it on

00:53:49,396 --> 00:53:52,926

both the glamping side as well as the

RVing side because I do work a lot with

00:53:52,926 --> 00:53:55,174

the glamping association here in the US.

00:53:55,346 --> 00:53:56,356

So I do see both.

00:53:56,466 --> 00:54:00,386

Because, the campgrounds are doing some

glamping inside of the campgrounds.

00:54:00,566 --> 00:54:05,466

But one of the things we're really

following and watching right now is the

00:54:05,886 --> 00:54:09,706

onboarding paths to RVing to begin with.

00:54:10,106 --> 00:54:12,976

And why the manufacturer

should be interested in that.

00:54:13,016 --> 00:54:18,156

And so for instance, you might think

of glamping as being in competition

00:54:18,266 --> 00:54:22,816

to a campground because campgrounds

take RVs and glamping units do not.

00:54:23,206 --> 00:54:28,806

However, that's not necessarily true

because we consider somebody going

00:54:28,806 --> 00:54:34,676

and staying in a glamping unit as a

gateway drug to out—to the outdoors.

00:54:34,936 --> 00:54:39,406

And so they may stay at a completely

just glamping location one time.

00:54:39,686 --> 00:54:43,706

They may stay at a glamping location

inside a park the next time.

00:54:44,186 --> 00:54:47,426

And then they may see that

RV that's across the way and

00:54:47,526 --> 00:54:49,136

go, oh, that's a great idea.

00:54:49,416 --> 00:54:52,496

And one of the biggest things that

we've seen happen over the last

00:54:52,826 --> 00:54:58,116

really three, 30 years in the RV

industry is the loss of gateway drugs.

00:54:58,116 --> 00:55:00,896

Because it used to be every

campground had tent camping.

00:55:01,416 --> 00:55:04,456

And almost everybody

could afford to tent camp.

00:55:04,576 --> 00:55:09,176

So it was the entry level for somebody

to get into an outdoor experience.

00:55:09,896 --> 00:55:12,486

And so we've lost a little bit of that.

00:55:12,486 --> 00:55:17,716

And so if statistically if you look,

in a lot of areas geographically,

00:55:17,716 --> 00:55:22,876

not like the industry as a whole, we

have more people exiting an outdoor

00:55:22,876 --> 00:55:27,026

hospitality stay than we do coming

in because of the price points.

00:55:28,486 --> 00:55:32,446

So we've got to create some of

these, more affordable ways of

00:55:32,456 --> 00:55:38,256

bringing the Gen Z and the some of

the Gen Ys into outdoor hospitality.

00:55:39,216 --> 00:55:40,516

Brian Searl: I don't think

it's just price point.

00:55:40,516 --> 00:55:41,486

I think that's part of it.

00:55:41,966 --> 00:55:44,026

Sandy Ellingson: Oh,

that is one piece, Brian.

00:55:44,026 --> 00:55:44,616

You're right.

00:55:44,786 --> 00:55:47,686

Brian Searl: Scott Bahr and I are going to

do some research on this in early January.

00:55:47,736 --> 00:55:50,526

We've done a whole deep dive white

paper into the psychology of Gen

00:55:50,526 --> 00:55:54,176

Z for both glamping and RVs and

outdoor hospitality in general.

00:55:54,766 --> 00:55:56,316

It's really interesting and eye-opening.

00:55:56,386 --> 00:55:58,396

It's not the same stuff you

hear everybody talk about.

00:55:58,396 --> 00:56:00,166

Like we all want to stay connected,

we all want to have Wi-Fi.

00:56:00,166 --> 00:56:01,666

That has nothing to do with it at

00:56:04,316 --> 00:56:04,446

all.

00:56:04,446 --> 00:56:04,449

Sandy Ellingson: No.

00:56:04,449 --> 00:56:04,646

You're right.

00:56:05,766 --> 00:56:06,666

Elizabeth McIntosh: What

does it have to do with?

00:56:07,146 --> 00:56:08,516

Brian Searl: Like it's

the way they were raised.

00:56:08,516 --> 00:56:09,466

It's their mindsets.

00:56:09,476 --> 00:56:11,796

Like you're teaching me, you're

testing my memory again, which

00:56:11,796 --> 00:56:12,936

we all know is a bad idea.

00:56:12,936 --> 00:56:13,736

We've established that.

00:56:14,166 --> 00:56:15,926

But it's mostly how they were raised.

00:56:15,926 --> 00:56:19,716

They were raised as disconnected,

solo, social media people.

00:56:20,156 --> 00:56:21,466

Like they were raised on social media.

00:56:21,466 --> 00:56:22,986

They don't get together

with their friends as much.

00:56:22,986 --> 00:56:24,246

They don't have connected experiences.

00:56:24,246 --> 00:56:25,926

Their parents didn't take them camping.

00:56:26,236 --> 00:56:29,016

They haven't had the entrance into

the outdoor hospitality market

00:56:29,016 --> 00:56:30,216

like Sandy was talking about.

00:56:30,816 --> 00:56:31,966

And so they're very nervous.

00:56:31,966 --> 00:56:34,476

So if if you've ever heard of

Earl from Black Folks Camp Too.

00:56:35,256 --> 00:56:38,606

His new company I think is

broader and all-encompassing.

00:56:39,146 --> 00:56:41,796

But his one of his main things was

that the, Black folk have never

00:56:41,796 --> 00:56:44,386

been introduced on the camping

lifestyle and how to go camping.

00:56:44,386 --> 00:56:47,336

And so it's, they're scared of

the woods because of the history

00:56:47,336 --> 00:56:50,646

of Black people and also because

they've never experienced to it.

00:56:51,176 --> 00:56:54,516

But this is a lot of the same

parallels with Gen Z is they

00:56:54,516 --> 00:56:55,616

don't like to be embarrassed.

00:56:55,636 --> 00:56:56,656

They like to be confident.

00:56:56,676 --> 00:56:57,696

They like to know everything.

00:56:57,696 --> 00:57:01,356

And so they're nervous to go try camping

because they don't know how to set

00:57:01,356 --> 00:57:03,716

up a tent and they don't want to be

embarrassed and they don't want to fail.

00:57:03,716 --> 00:57:06,136

And there's a lot of really

stu—interesting stuff that

00:57:06,136 --> 00:57:08,406

our research has uncovered

that we'll present in January.

00:57:09,136 --> 00:57:12,176

It's, yeah, it's quite, it was quite

fascinating to read some of it.

00:57:12,656 --> 00:57:16,016

And how to appeal to Gen Z because it's

not at all what you've heard in the

00:57:16,016 --> 00:57:17,606

narrative from anyone else that I've seen.

00:57:19,106 --> 00:57:19,866

All right, final thoughts.

00:57:19,866 --> 00:57:20,666

We're going to wrap up here.

00:57:20,666 --> 00:57:23,466

Kristin, any final thoughts and then

where can they find out more about Sage?

00:57:23,526 --> 00:57:26,126

Kristin Andersen Garwood: Final

thoughts is yes, I think moving forward

00:57:26,126 --> 00:57:31,916

connection is really the foundation

to camping and outdoor hospitality

00:57:32,046 --> 00:57:33,696

I think in the future too, Brian.

00:57:33,726 --> 00:57:37,706

And we have a very

all-encompassing website,

00:57:39,766 --> 00:57:40,586

sageoutdooradvisory.com.

00:57:41,776 --> 00:57:42,066

Brian Searl: Awesome.

00:57:42,066 --> 00:57:43,006

Thanks for being here, Kristin.

00:57:43,056 --> 00:57:43,536

MacKenzie?

00:57:44,756 --> 00:57:45,176

MacKenzie Whitsell: All right.

00:57:45,476 --> 00:57:46,326

Final thoughts.

00:57:46,486 --> 00:57:48,946

I guess just check out our website.

00:57:48,976 --> 00:57:51,976

It's wildridect.org.

00:57:52,116 --> 00:57:56,926

And you can see what we have available

in terms of our glamping domes and

00:57:56,926 --> 00:57:59,016

our experiences with the horses.

00:57:59,116 --> 00:58:03,506

And yeah, that's we'd

love to, come on down.

00:58:03,686 --> 00:58:07,326

And we love playing host and

showing our herd to everyone.

00:58:07,326 --> 00:58:08,886

And giving them a really great experience.

00:58:09,976 --> 00:58:11,036

Brian Searl: I guess

I should ask this too.

00:58:11,036 --> 00:58:12,506

What are you going to do

for Christmas, MacKenzie?

00:58:12,716 --> 00:58:14,266

Since it's our last show

before the holidays.

00:58:14,316 --> 00:58:15,796

What's your plans for

Christmas if you want to share?

00:58:17,006 --> 00:58:18,796

MacKenzie Whitsell: I

have no plans right now.

00:58:19,146 --> 00:58:19,656

We'll see.

00:58:20,226 --> 00:58:20,716

Brian Searl: All right, Kristin.

00:58:20,726 --> 00:58:21,116

How about you?

00:58:21,116 --> 00:58:21,876

Any plans for Christmas?

00:58:22,016 --> 00:58:22,396

Are you excited?

00:58:23,206 --> 00:58:24,493

Kristin Andersen Garwood:

I'm super excited.

00:58:24,493 --> 00:58:26,836

We're going to hit the ski hill up here.

00:58:27,456 --> 00:58:28,726

Do some of that fun stuff.

00:58:29,046 --> 00:58:29,796

Playing in the snow.

00:58:30,906 --> 00:58:31,466

Brian Searl: Very cool.

00:58:31,576 --> 00:58:32,236

All right, Sandy.

00:58:32,246 --> 00:58:35,526

Final thoughts, Christmas plans, and where

can they find out more about your work?

00:58:35,526 --> 00:58:38,906

Sandy Ellingson: We have

planes flying over right now.

00:58:38,906 --> 00:58:39,636

I apologize.

00:58:40,256 --> 00:58:43,526

I'm down in the area of Pensacola

where the, those special

00:58:43,536 --> 00:58:44,806

flying guys, they come over.

00:58:44,846 --> 00:58:45,436

But anyway.

00:58:45,676 --> 00:58:47,726

00:58:47,726 --> 00:58:50,986

I think it's going to be a very

pivotal year for both outdoor

00:58:50,986 --> 00:58:53,066

hospitality and the RV industry.

00:58:53,396 --> 00:58:58,466

than I have any of the years post-COVID.

00:58:59,356 --> 00:59:02,341

Brian Searl: What's your prediction

for the percentage up or down of the

00:59:02,426 --> 00:59:05,976

00:59:06,666 --> 00:59:10,656

Sandy Ellingson: I think that if RV parks

find the right voices to listen to they

00:59:10,656 --> 00:59:16,086

have a significant opportunity to increase

their occupancy through some of the

00:59:16,086 --> 00:59:17,806

creative things that are coming through.

00:59:18,116 --> 00:59:22,246

It's the challenge is going to be getting

them to listen to the right voices.

00:59:22,276 --> 00:59:25,476

And there's also going to be a

couple of regulatory things that are

00:59:25,476 --> 00:59:28,496

coming out that we're watching, but

I'll speak to that at another time.

00:59:28,496 --> 00:59:29,426

Brian Searl: All right.

00:59:29,436 --> 00:59:30,296

Guess a percentage.

00:59:30,296 --> 00:59:31,526

I'm going to date you and record you.

00:59:32,946 --> 00:59:36,216

Sandy Ellingson: I would like to

see all of my parks reach an annual

00:59:36,216 --> 00:59:40,196

occupancy of 75 to 80% again next

year, which is nowhere near where

00:59:40,196 --> 00:59:41,426

we're going to land for this year.

00:59:42,156 --> 00:59:44,336

Brian Searl: So you

think up 10% next year?

00:59:44,396 --> 00:59:45,046

As a whole?

00:59:45,376 --> 00:59:45,756

Okay.

00:59:45,836 --> 00:59:46,266

All right.

00:59:47,036 --> 00:59:47,556

Elizabeth.

00:59:47,566 --> 00:59:50,421

Final thoughts and where can they find

out more about Back Forty Glamping and

00:59:50,496 --> 00:59:51,596

Christmas plans if you want to share?

00:59:52,546 --> 00:59:54,726

Elizabeth McIntosh: Yeah, we're

actually shutting down this Christmas.

00:59:54,786 --> 00:59:59,156

I feel like a huge part of our success has

to do with our staff loving their jobs.

00:59:59,706 --> 01:00:02,876

So we wanted to be able to give

everyone a break over those three days.

01:00:02,886 --> 01:00:05,616

So we are closing, which I think is great.

01:00:05,706 --> 01:00:08,436

And my family, I have

a bunch of young kids.

01:00:08,436 --> 01:00:12,056

We like to go to the resort when it's

closed so that we can use the hot tubs.

01:00:12,066 --> 01:00:13,346

So we'll be doing that.

01:00:14,716 --> 01:00:14,856

Awesome.

01:00:15,076 --> 01:00:17,766

And yeah, follow along on

TikTok and Instagram for

01:00:17,766 --> 01:00:19,976

some a lot of winter content.

01:00:20,436 --> 01:00:21,746

It'll be coming in pretty heavy.

01:00:21,836 --> 01:00:23,866

And it looks quite magical.

01:00:23,876 --> 01:00:25,536

So you can find us there.

01:00:26,296 --> 01:00:26,616

Brian Searl: Awesome.

01:00:26,616 --> 01:00:27,286

Thanks for being here.

01:00:27,286 --> 01:00:28,186

Last but not least, Mr.

01:00:28,186 --> 01:00:28,706

David Byers.

01:00:30,236 --> 01:00:30,726

David Byers: Yes.

01:00:30,866 --> 01:00:33,076

We're going to be not traveling this year.

01:00:33,126 --> 01:00:36,026

We usually go to Costa Rica

for Christmas and New Year's.

01:00:36,846 --> 01:00:38,956

But I'm going to just

keep the open sign on.

01:00:39,526 --> 01:00:43,336

We just came back from the British

Columbia Campground and Lodges