The October 8th episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl and featuring recurring guest Scott Foos, along with special guest Stephanie Kichler, navigated the dynamic landscape of the outdoor hospitality industry, focusing primarily on glamping, the guest experience, and the impact of major industry news. Despite several expected guests missing the episode, the conversation was rich with personal insights and professional perspectives.

Brian Searl kicked off the podcast, welcoming listeners and addressing the noticeable absence of several scheduled guests, playfully attributing it to either the excitement of the Glamping Show or the recovery afterward. The core agenda for the chat was set to include a recap of the recent Glamping Show, the significant Marriott Outdoor Collection announcement, and a potential discussion on the future of marketing with Sora 2 (an AI technology), though the latter topic was deferred due to time.

Scott Foos, a Managing Partner and co-owner of Horizon Outdoor Hospitality, introduced his firm as a third-party management and professional services company dedicated exclusively to the outdoor hospitality space. He expressed excitement to be back on the show, noting that the focus for operators remains on continually enhancing the guest experience.

Stephanie Kichler, the General Manager of BaseCamp 37, was introduced as the special guest. She described her property as a 10-acre glamping site in Southern Utah, situated near major national parks like Zion, Bryce, and the Grand Canyon. BaseCamp 37 is an independent, woman-owned business, running five tents and celebrating its ninth year of operation, notably as one of the region's first glamping sites. Stephanie proudly mentioned their commitment to being eco-friendly and primarily solar-powered, illustrating the unique challenges of off-grid living, even as they've added amenities like fiber internet and city water for guests.

The panel dove into a recap of the recent Glamping Show. Scott Foos noted that the event continues to be a source of inspiration, showcasing the industry's commercial growth and innovation, from various physical units like cabins and tents to on-site activities. Brian Searl acknowledged that the show, despite a management transition, maintained its core feel and content, including presentations from established players like Bolt Farm Treehouses and HoneyTrek.

Stephanie Kichler, who was unable to attend as a small, two-person operation, highlighted her company's desire to attend for networking and learning real-world troubleshooting stories from other independent operators. She emphasized that practical strategies—such as handling wear and tear in the desert environment, dealing with permitting, or managing challenges like the closure of National Parks—are often more valuable than seeing new corporate designs.

The conversation shifted to the vital role of the personalized guest experience, a topic close to Stephanie's heart. Drawing on her background as a public school teacher, Stephanie explained that BaseCamp 37's approach involves a personal check-in for almost all guests. She personally greets them, gives them a tour of their tent, explains the solar power system and heaters, and walks them through the guest lodge amenities. She considers this one-on-one support and presence on the property a key amenity that helps first-time campers feel comfortable, welcome, and at home, an effort reflected in their positive reviews.

Scott Foos affirmed that this warm, human touch is one of the hardest and most important elements of hospitality, especially as properties scale. He suggested that while technology and AI can help operators automate tasks like housekeeping to improve margins, the ultimate goal should be to free up staff to invest more time in the personal connection and welcoming experience. Brian Searl agreed, proposing that AI could work behind the scenes (e.g., researching guest preferences to personalize a welcome with their favorite snack) without guests needing to "see the technology."

Stephanie Kichler elaborated on the challenges of running a small, independent operation in the desert. The constant battle against the elements—the desert sun and sand—makes resources highly consumable, leading to a roughly two-year lifespan for their safari tents and perpetual maintenance needs. Additionally, being located eight miles outside Kanab, Utah, on a dirt road, means handling rural life realities like keeping the property clean, maintaining the solar-powered system, and occasionally shooing away neighboring ranchers’ cattle, which can find their way onto the property due to Utah’s fence-out laws.

Scott Foos related this to the wider issue of burnout for owners, noting that while the personal touch is vital, it’s also the hardest to scale and sustain without support. The panel discussed the importance of framing expectations for guests, using the example of mice: instead of a "do not" list, Stephanie educates guests by saying they will hear mice outside, so to keep them out of their tent, they should secure their food. This technique helps manage expectations, ensuring guests feel comfortable when they encounter the realities of an outdoor, off-grid environment.

The conversation moved to the announcement of Marriott’s Outdoor Collection by Marriott Bonvoy, an unsurprising development following their acquisition of Postcard Cabins and partnership with Trailborn Hotels. Scott Foos explained that this platform allows guests to earn and redeem Bonvoy points at associated properties, which are typically lodging units, but not currently RV sites. He noted that the mass implementation of this is yet to be determined, as a high key count (number of units) minimum for franchising (historically around 70) might not fit the vast majority of smaller glamping operations.

Stephanie Kichler drew a parallel to the now-closed REI Experiences, but maintained an optimistic view. She suggested that a major player like Marriott entering the space helps elevate the entire glamping community, making it more approachable for a larger audience, which ultimately benefits all operators.

Brian Searl played devil's advocate, questioning whether Marriott—which has thus far avoided using the word “glamping” in its main branding for the collection—will actually raise the profile of the glamping industry, or simply brand the new offerings as "cabin rentals" or "Marriott experiences." He further suggested that the move could raise guest expectations for independent operators like BaseCamp 37, with guests potentially demanding the amenities of a five-star resort (hot water, AC, luxury bedding) at a more rustic site.

The discussion also touched on the fragmentation of the outdoor hospitality industry and the growing necessity of classifying properties to better understand performance metrics and guest expectations. Scott Foos noted that many institutional properties are combo properties with both lodging units and RV sites, which currently complicates their participation in the Outdoor Collection. The panelists agreed that the ultimate goal remains to make outdoor experiences more accessible and memorable, regardless of the accommodation type.

In their closing thoughts, the guests underscored the primary mission of the industry. Stephanie Kichler shared a personal final thought: that glamping is uniquely positioned to inspire people to care for the outdoors. By creating positive memories in nature, the industry encourages guests to become better stewards of the environment, which she finds personally inspiring.

Scott Foos emphasized that despite the big industry news, operators must stay focused on what they can control: the guest experience, ensuring the human element remains central to every connection. Brian Searl concluded by encouraging operators not to be afraid to create experiences that don't require millions in capital but simply require a clear understanding of what their specific guest truly desires.

Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

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We are maybe light on guests this week.

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I don't know, we had a bunch of people who

were scheduled to show up who apparently

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just decided that they had too much fun

at the Glamping Show, or maybe they're

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still recovering Scott, I'm not sure.

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It's a good show, but we'll

see what we can do for you

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guys today as far as content.

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We've got some cool things

I think we can talk about.

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Obviously we have special guest

Stephanie here who I'll let introduce

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herself in a second, who will be

talking to you about Basecamp 37.

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I think we do a recap of the Glamping

Show and some of the experiences there.

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We could probably cover

the Marriott announcement.

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Scott, I think we could

talk about some of that.

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And then maybe at the end, if we have

time, we'll talk about how the whole

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world's gonna change with Sora 2.

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And it's gonna be really interesting

how social media and how you market

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your park changes as a result of that.

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But first, let's go around the room then.

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Scott, do you wanna

introduce yourself first?

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Scott Foos: Hey.

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Yeah.

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Good afternoon.

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I guess it is now, everybody.

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I am Scott Foos I am a managing

partner and co-owner of

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Horizon Outdoor Hospitality.

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We are a third party management

professional services firm, exclusively

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serving the outdoor hospitality space.

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Really excited to be back here again.

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Brian.

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Thanks so much.

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I think I missed last month.

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You were, you were in Ireland,

if I'm not mistaken, right?

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Brian Searl: Yeah.

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I was in Ireland, so I didn't

even know that you missed last

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month, but now I've got you.

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Yeah, just I keep a list of all

the people that missed shows.

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Scott Foos: You can

mark my attendance down.

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Yeah.

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Brian Searl: We can charge you later.

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And put, I'll put her in the tab.

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Welcome Scott.

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I appreciate it.

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We have so many people missing.

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We should have Zach Stoltenberg here.

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He was at the Lodging Conference

in Arizona, so I feel like he

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has an excuse which we'll talk

about later as we indicated.

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But Joe Duemig, Casey Cochran, we

might have to get some new guests here.

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I don't know.

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Sta or Stephanie, sorry,

I almost called you Stacy.

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I don't know why.

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Stephanie, please introduce yourself.

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Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

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Hey folks.

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My name's Stephanie and I'm the

general manager here at Basecamp 37.

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We are a 10 acre glamping property

in Southern Utah, right on the

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border of Arizona and Utah.

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Tucked between Grand Staircase,

Zion, Bryce, and the Grand Canyon.

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We're an independent woman

owned, there's just two of us.

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Myself and Amy Affeld.

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She's our owner.

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Just two of us running.

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We have five tents and we're in

our ninth year of operation here.

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And we absolutely love it.

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I think

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Brian Searl: So you,

I was gonna interrupt.

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Stephanie Kichler: This is what I.

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Brian Searl: You were one of the

early adopters who figured out that

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Zion was gonna be popular before

they all blew up during COVID and

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all came and joined you, right?

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Stephanie Kichler: Yeah, actually

we were the first glamping site in

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this region, in the Zion region,

in the Southern Utah region.

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So proud of that and started a new trend.

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They didn't even know how to tax

us or permit us when we started.

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Brian Searl: I feel like they still

don't know how to tax and permit anybody,

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but that might be another 20, 30 years

before they get that under their belts.

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It's government after all.

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Scott, is there anything that's come

across your desk in the last, maybe

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two months since you've been on the

show, but month knowing that we'll

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talk about the Glamping Show and

Marriott, is there anything else that

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kind of has come across your desk

that you think we should talk about?

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Scott Foos: I think the Marriott

piece was what I had jotted

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down for this show for today.

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I think that it's an interesting

not unexpected announcement but an

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interesting announcement and development.

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We could chat about that

whenever makes sense though.

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Brian, I think that the focus for us

remains, and I know that's the topic

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of this show is guest experience

and how we can ensure that we're

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continuing to push the envelope.

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Being at the Glamping Show last week

was as always really inspiring and

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exciting and it's, it's really more

than anything, we've continued to see

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it commercialize and grow over the last,

five or six years that I've been going.

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I think it's been around a little bit

longer than that, but it's still, you

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have so many great ideas and innovations

and things that people are doing and

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trying and, from the physical units

and cabins and tents and orbs and all

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sorts of things that are out there.

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Brian Searl: Was there Orbs?

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Did I miss Orbs in the show?

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Scott Foos: No, I sure I saw one.

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I don't know.

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Brian Searl: I think you should

start a company that builds orbs.

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That would be pretty cool.

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I'd buy one.

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Scott Foos: But

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anyways it's exciting to see how you

can continue to to innovate the, how

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people are continuing to innovate

the guest experience from what you

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sleep in to what you do on site.

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Brian Searl: I think let's

start with the glamp, go ahead.

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Were you gonna say something else?

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Scott Foos: No, please.

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I was gonna ask what your thoughts

were at the Glamping Show.

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Brian Searl: I think that you're right.

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Like it's interesting because I think

I was expecting it to be a little bit

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different just given the transition

between David Course and Emerald, right?

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I don't know.

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I necessarily expected it to be better

or worse, just different in some way.

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And I don't know that it was like,

like all the things that you're talking

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about were there, they were present.

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The new people coming in, the more

corporatization the people who

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had been there year after year.

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It was great to hear from some

of the speakers, like the Bolt

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farm Treehouses and the HoneyTrek

people who were there again.

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But some of those people

have talked before.

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I don't think the Bolts have, but,

and so we were used to hearing

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the big stories and big players.

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So I don't know if the education

track to me, was that different.

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What did you think?

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I didn't get to attend too

many sessions, honestly.

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Scott Foos: I did not make

it into any of the sessions.

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But I had some team members that did

and they thought that the sessions

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were helpful and informative.

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I think, when you think about who

the average and Stephanie, I'd

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love to know, your perspective.

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I'm I assume you did not go to

the Glamping Show last week.

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Stephanie Kichler: I did not, no.

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I'm here full time on property.

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Scott Foos: You're here full time.

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That's right.

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Stephanie Kichler:

Everyday gotta meet guests.

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Scott Foos: But if you were starting

out nine years ago did you I

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can't remember, was the Glamping

Show a thing Brian, back then?

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And would that have been something

that would've been helpful for you,

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Stephanie to go and experience as

a as an aspiring glamping operator?

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Brian Searl: According to, before

you answer, just to answer your

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question, Scott, according to Ann from

HoneyTrek, was on our show last week.

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She says eight years.

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She's been coming to the Glamping Show

and it was in some tiny little hotel

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ballroom the first year or something.

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Scott Foos: Oh, okay.

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Brian Searl: Okay.

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I think the first big one

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Okay.

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Because I was at that one and

then I missed a year or two

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for COVID, not nine years ago.

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No, but go ahead Stephanie.

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Stephanie Kichler: Yeah, no.

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Amy and I, she's the owner, have always

chatted about going to the Glamping Show

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and toyed around with it as a small team.

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It's one of those things that

probably get a little lower on our

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priority list when we're like, oh,

we should repair the deck instead.

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So it is one of those things that we would

definitely see that being beneficial.

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We love just seeing what

people are putting out there,

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some of those new designs.

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She sent me a couple of like

posts of these like rollout,

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pop out, safari style tent.

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And it looks really cool 'cause if

we do ever decide to put another

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tent on we do safari style tents

right now on these wooden platforms.

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It might look a little different

in the future if we bump up

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to six units on our property.

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But right now we're just at five.

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And then we also just love the networking.

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We ourselves network just through

social media and stuff like that,

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and have a lot of great relationships

like Glamping Canyon Lands.

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Out by Canyon Lands.

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They're wonderful and although we've never

met them we feel super close to them.

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And so we do love the networking

aspect of events like that too.

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But maybe in the future you'll see

us there because we'll prioritize it.

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We'll go.

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Brian Searl: You have to, right?

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I've been in business for 16 years and

for the first eight it was just me.

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Stephanie Kichler: Yeah, exactly.

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Brian Searl: Yeah.

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Stephanie Kichler: This is actually our

first year where I'm GM officially, and

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not just like contract side help Amy

where I'm in more of a full-time capacity.

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So for the last eight years I've

been just supporting Amy and lifting

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her up, and it's been her more solo.

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And now at eight years we're

making a switch like this.

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So it takes a while when you run your

own property and you're independent.

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Those things take a while.

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Yeah.

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Scott Foos: And I'm curious too, I

mean your, if I'm not mistaken, did I

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read that your property is off-grid?

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Stephanie Kichler: Oh, yes it is.

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We're on-grid with our power and

we have fiber internet, so no.

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I'm sorry.

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I totally well ignore that.

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We're on-grid with our water.

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We

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Scott Foos: Okay.

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Stephanie Kichler: The city water

about three, four years ago we took

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ourselves off our, but we are totally

solar powered, so we are really proud

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to be generally eco-friendly and

off-grid living, especially as it

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relates to all of our electricity.

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So each tent has their own

little solar setup and array.

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And it has a little goal

zero generator inside of it.

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And then we have a larger array

and then a big solar shed with 10

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batteries in it that run where I live.

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And then where the guests shower and

eat and cook food and stuff like that.

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Brian Searl: I have an interesting,

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Stephanie Kichler: fun working,

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Brian Searl: I have Interesting question.

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Stephanie Kichler: Working plan.

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We have to have the internet

because I'm on it right now.

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Brian Searl: I have an interesting

question for you, Stephanie.

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I'm curious before I give my thoughts,

'cause they did send me the glamping

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survey and I filled it out and I'm

gonna tell people what I said on it.

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Mostly good.

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But I'm curious with the trade off

that you're talking about making.

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It's obviously a very hard sell

to come to the Glamping Show

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when it's just the two of you.

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Is there something that you can imagine

in your head where you'd see the Glamping

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Show do next year that you're like,

okay, this is worth the trade off.

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I have to go to this.

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Stephanie Kichler: Oh, I

that's a really good question.

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Oh.

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I think for us, a really big thing

is networking, is meeting other

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people and learning from them.

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I think sometimes we hear from a lot

of folks that are like corporate and

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they have a really unique design, and

that's neat and we love to see that.

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But what we really love to

hear is people's stories.

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Oh, when this broke, we did this

and here's how we recovered when

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this happened, or, the national

parks closed, here's what we did.

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Or when this, something happened.

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So those real stories from people about

how we're all navigating it, how we're

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all figuring it out success stories,

amenities, they're adding amenities that

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are low cost, high cost, wherever it

is, how they're elevating that glamping

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experience and getting people onboarded

to the whole setting once you're here.

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'cause it is different.

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A lot of people are, first time ampers,

never have camped when they show up here.

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And so we have to really do a lot of

education and a lot of, a little bit of

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handholding in the best way possible.

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To get them comfortable and

enjoying this experience fully.

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Brian Searl: Yeah, for me, the

networking is the biggest piece

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of the whole thing, right?

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Like I, I even as a vendor, I'll

go and exhibit at the trade show

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and I'll be like, all right, I just

gotta stand here at this booth for

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a few hours and then I can go to

the bar and do the real business.

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But the networking for the owners

and operators too, just that

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connecting with people, you're right.

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You can't replace it.

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And I like, that's one of the, I

think, the easy criticisms that I

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would make of the Glamping Show.

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And I put, I don't know if I put this in

my survey, but it's been all the years

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you've been to multiple ones, Scott where

like they, they have good education.

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They have a good vendor

set up and it turnout.

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They have good organization,

the conference is well

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run, et cetera, et cetera.

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But they don't really do anything

other than the American Glamping

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Shows Taco Tuesday, which is great,

and they have a DJ on the, but you

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can't really talk there, right?

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It's very loud.

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Outside of that, like

there's really no networking.

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And I feel like the conferences and

this goes to OHI too, like OHI doesn't

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really facilitate networking either.

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They happen to be in a hotel

that usually has a nice bar where

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everybody just congregates and it

happens organically, which is great.

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But yeah, that networking I needs

more of an emphasis, I think.

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And I don't know if it's breakout

sessions, if it's one-on-one, if

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it's speed dating, if it's, yeah.

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Just there's so many different

takeaways that you could do with, you

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hear from other owners and operators.

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Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

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And that's what we do so much

online is through our social feeds.

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It's just networking.

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It's just laughing about

things that happen.

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We're exchanging messages back

and forth with these other

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operators just wow, oh neat.

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This is so cool you did this.

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And that's, that feels so rich to us

when we get ideas and we also feel like

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we're part of a community of people

that are like, oh, similar experiences.

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So it's really neat.

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Brian Searl: I wanna put together a

glamping escape room, Scott, where you

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have to go in as a newbie operator and

you have to talk to all the people who

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have owned glamping resorts forever,

and you have to figure out how to build

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the perfect glamping resort to escape

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Scott Foos: I like it.

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Brian Searl: Yeah, go ahead.

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You were gonna say something

probably more profound?

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Scott Foos: No I, no, I was just gonna

say though, that I feel like one of

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the things that makes our industry, and

I, when I say our industry, just the

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greater outdoor hospitality industry

as it stands today, so unique and

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special, is that it's filled with mom

and pops, we'll call them our independent

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operators and owners where, we, I

include myself in that as an operator,

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but as an industry, we have to really

understand that we rely on each other.

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There's this networking piece of, and

troubleshooting component and just

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being there for each other for support.

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Even it's just to, to hear

somebody vent about something that

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happened, I think is so important.

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And I, I look at Mark

Koep's Facebook group.

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I don't know Stephanie if

you're a part of that, but it's,

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there's, I don't know, maybe five,

several thousand members in that.

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Brian Searl: At least

somewhere there, sure.

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Scott Foos: Yeah.

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And I think that's why it's one

of the reasons it's so successful.

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It's a well run group, but it's,

I think it's successful because we

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all see that there's not a playbook.

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Outdoor hospitality is not cookie cutter.

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It is all so different and so

unique and it's very nature.

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And I think the ability for us to connect

together and share what's worked and

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hasn't worked is even more profound

and necessary in our industry than it

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would be in, say, traditional hotel when

everything is maybe a bit more uniformed

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to and standardized than what we have.

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Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

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Case in point, the number of people

that are ask me, oh, is there a

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front desk or a check-in desk?

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And I'm like, it's me.

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I'm the desk.

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Yeah.

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Scott Foos: Yeah.

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So how does that work?

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Do you guys.

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With your property, do you have

so are you there to greet guests?

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Is it mostly self

check-in and self service?

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We'd love to, I'd love to learn a little

bit more about your property specifically.

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Stephanie Kichler: Sure, yeah.

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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And actually I think our

take on it is unique.

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Potentially you guys might

know better if it's unique.

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As a background, I come from about 10

years as a public school teacher, and

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so I come from an education mindset

and I come from very much so wanting

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to ensure by the way I greet people,

talk to people that they're feeling

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comfortable, welcome and really at home.

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So generally speaking, I'd say

99% of our guests, unless they're

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arriving past 9:30 PM we personally

check, I personally check them in.

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So I meet them at their

tents or point them that way.

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I give them a tour of their tent.

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I explain our solar power,

how to work the heaters.

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It's cold there, it's cooler right now.

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And then we usually walk over together to

our guest lodge and I show them all the.

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Things in there and point out like the

marshmallows and there's hand towels

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here and do all that good stuff.

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And I would say that's actually one

amenity that we really pride ourselves on

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is that personalized one-on-one support.

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If you look on booking.com

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on our reviews, 'cause we get a lot of

international travelers through that.

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It's just like the warm

welcome I felt at home.

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She explained everything, over and over.

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And then once they understand, once

people feel comfortable and they

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understand, they can reach out to

me, they know I live on property.

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They're just like, ah, I can relax.

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I think I'm okay and I know

where everything is now, and

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I feel okay asking a question.

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So I know a lot of glamping properties

are certainly gonna be more hands off,

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and that is absolutely cost effective

and a wonderful way to run a property.

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But it's something that we've

done since the beginning, is that

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personalized welcome and being a

general presence on the property.

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The guests see me like jutting around,

cleaning the lodging during the

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daytime if they're still on property,

staying over, stuff like that.

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So I'm definitely part of

that experience we're having.

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Brian Searl: I wanna do a study

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'cause we're gonna bring back our

MC Reports that we were doing.

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Just took a whole hiatus.

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We were both too busy this year.

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It would be really interesting to do

a study and see if there's a floor in,

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if someone does what Stephanie does

at her property and greets people and

365

explains everything, is there a floor

for you get a base minimum review?

366

Like I can't imagine anybody reviewing

less than three and a half stars if

367

they've met the owner of the GM, they've

walked them through the property.

368

Like you'd have to be a really

like just irritable person, right?

369

Scott Foos: Yeah.

370

You would think or, yeah.

371

That you would hope that the

person welcoming them truly

372

wants to be there as well.

373

Brian Searl: That, that's true.

374

I guess that could happen, right?

375

But assuming it's a good experience.

376

Scott Foos: Yeah.

377

Yeah.

378

And I think that when we think about

hospitality and the guest experience,

379

I think that is one of the elements

that is, can be the hardest thing

380

to scale, to really understand how

to nail down is that warm touch.

381

When and to be able to welcome

them in because Stephanie, you

382

being able to do that, you are

truly welcoming them to your home.

383

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

384

Scott Foos: And, and in every way, right?

385

Like literally.

386

And I think that's really impactful

and I think as properties get into,

387

say like a hundred plus site counts.

388

It can be very difficult to do

that, to maintain profitability.

389

But I think when I, and I use air quotes

there, because a lot of people don't look

390

at the hospitality element as an amenity,

as Stephanie said, like it is an amenity.

391

It does cost money.

392

It costs money to maintain

through payroll and making sure

393

you're supporting great people.

394

But it's so important.

395

Brian Searl: Yeah.

396

What if this changes in

the future though, right?

397

So I know I'm like the

technology geek, right?

398

Advocate for AI,

robotics, everything else.

399

What if robots can do all the things

except for the hospitality piece

400

and that allows a hundred site, 200

site, 400 site park to have four or

401

five camp hosts, and that makes the

experience better for all the guests.

402

Scott Foos: To the extent that we

don't, if we can standardize some

403

things and offload things like, waiting

for those housekeeping robots to,

404

to roll in, I think it's gonna be a.

405

Brian Searl: Couple years you're

gonna, it's gonna come fast, Scott.

406

You'll tell me that.

407

Stephanie Kichler: But robot has to

make sure they see the mouth tape,

408

somebody stuck to the lamp and left it.

409

Because I feel like true

the robot's gonna miss that.

410

Sorry.

411

It'll be interesting to find out.

412

Brian Searl: I wanna run a test on

it and see, I'm gonna use that exact

413

example on the first robot I give.

414

Stephanie Kichler: I like it.

415

Brian Searl: But yeah I think

that's important, right?

416

The hospitality piece is

important to your right, Scott.

417

It gets to a point where it scales.

418

That's what I'm hopeful though,

that there was a great speaker and

419

I, and he was on our show the week

before the Glamping Show, Ari.

420

I, it's just, I'm too old and

I can't remember his last name.

421

But he's, he works for Fat Rat AI.

422

He gave a great session at the

Glamming Show that I was one of two

423

that I was actually able to catch.

424

But he owns a really nice property,

I think in northern Vermont

425

with his wife glamping off-grid.

426

And he's just probably either equal to

me or maybe even a little above me with

427

the things that he is talking about

not even talking about, sorry, has

428

executed and automated his property.

429

And he was telling cool stories about

he was experimenting with robot dogs

430

delivering food and didn't realize that

children were afraid of robot dogs and

431

just the things that he's experimented

with and that have tried and failed.

432

And it's just really

interesting to hear his story.

433

But the undercurrent to it all is his

wife balances him and says no that the

434

guests can never see the technology.

435

They can't feel it, they can't touch it.

436

It just has to be there to personalize

their stay and make their outdoors

437

experience better without tech everywhere.

438

And I think that's the key

to a really successful.

439

Where I wanna, I imagine it going

with these multiple camp hosts, right?

440

That's right.

441

Automate what we can so that

people can truly spend time making

442

the guest experience better.

443

I don't think you should

ever replace that camp host.

444

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

445

Scott Foos: I agreed wholeheartedly.

446

And I like what you said about

how, Ari's wife balances him out

447

with people don't want to see it.

448

They don't like, part of why they come

to an off-grid experience at Basecamp 37,

449

I'm sure is to get away from it, right?

450

To get away from the tech and

the ability to disconnect and

451

reconnect with themselves.

452

And I think that the ability for us as

operators and owners to improve margins

453

and allow us to invest in people and

that experience of welcoming them in.

454

The more that we can do that and implement

AI and tech behind the scenes as much

455

as we can, I think helps to, I think

that's the ultimate goal in my view.

456

Brian Searl: Yeah, imagine like an AI

that just researches the people who

457

are staying with you on social media

beforehand or asks them questions in

458

a quiz and then they have, you have

their favorite snack or their favorite

459

wine or whatever waiting in the room.

460

The technology is not in their

face, but the technology made

461

their stay that much better.

462

Stephanie Kichler: That's right.

463

Absolutely.

464

Yes.

465

Scott Foos: Yeah, that's,

yeah, that's where it's at.

466

That's the magic.

467

Brian Searl: Yeah.

468

That's what I mean.

469

I'm trying to build it

over here as fast as I can.

470

I gotta stop, do a podcast every hour

and then go to the Glamping Show.

471

But just that stuff really

interests me though, is pushing

472

into that undercurrent of stuff.

473

Maybe not the robot dog

so much, but we'll see.

474

Stephanie Kichler: I won't

replace my dog with that.

475

Brian Searl: I asked Ari that

question after the thing.

476

I was like, so the, he was on our

podcast too, that from the Glamping Show.

477

I said, the key takeaway I have from

that is the robot dogs are only at the

478

adult only resorts, and he laughed.

479

But yeah, it's gonna be a fun I think

there's gonna be a place for tech-centric

480

resorts that are themed that way.

481

But mostly yeah, stay outta the way.

482

So how, so what problem were you

trying to solve, Stephanie, when

483

you opened your resort there in

484

Stephanie Kichler: Ooh.

485

Brian Searl: In the area in the beginning.

486

Stephanie Kichler: We're in the desert.

487

It's a little rough out here sometimes.

488

Things berate us.

489

And so the kind of revolving problem

that we often face is that things

490

are really consumable out here.

491

Things that you don't

think are consumable.

492

The tents themselves, they have about

a two year lifespan just because

493

they're getting whipped around

in the desert sun, desert sand.

494

We have a little saying the desert's up.

495

I won't say it, but, we've had

issues with our, going out.

496

The pump is broken when we

were on well water, and then

497

we're like hauling in water.

498

So a lot of things are just

consumable that you do not realize

499

are consumable as the wear and the

tear and the tread continues on.

500

And so I think that's one of the biggest

problems that we're always trying to

501

solve is how to stay on top of all that

and keep our margins up and make sure

502

that we're just not constantly spending a

bunch of money on new canvas, new chairs.

503

'cause things just break out here.

504

It's just the way it is out here.

505

So I think that's one of the biggest

things when, so Amy started the property

506

nine, like I said, nine years ago.

507

This is our ninth year.

508

I met her that first year.

509

So I came in right at the beginning.

510

Like she.

511

Brian Searl: Count, you

count as a founder then.

512

Stephanie Kichler: Hey, and

then I showed up like May 20th

513

in her world and was like, hi.

514

So I missed a lot of that like

setup of what she was doing.

515

This property down here it's in a,

we're on basically surrounded by public

516

land, all ag land, a lot of cows, a lot

of weeds, lot of just stuff and junk.

517

So cleaning the property and

just general overall maintenance.

518

Again, we're on a dirt road.

519

Eight miles outside of Canna, Utah.

520

And so life out here, it's just rural.

521

The cows sometimes are here and

we have to shoo them off and

522

hope they didn't poop a bunch.

523

Just these everyday things of

wear and tear and just life really

524

off-grid is our real reality

of what we're trying to solve.

525

Brian Searl: But that

adds to the charm, right?

526

Stephanie Kichler: Oh, it

absolutely does add to the charm.

527

And honestly, our guests, when the

cows are around, they love it and

528

I'm just, I could do without it.

529

But our guests find it charming and

interesting and they think it's fine.

530

The cows were only here for a week

in the springtime, which is good.

531

Scott Foos: I'm sure you found it

charming and fun like the first year.

532

Yes.

533

But then it quickly faded.

534

Stephanie Kichler: As you like

yourself are like becoming all

535

of a sudden the cowboy with your

dog, like running the cows off.

536

You're like, what am I doing?

537

Brian Searl: That's right.

538

Are they not just wild

cows, like wild horses or,

539

Stephanie Kichler: No.

540

The ranchers move the cows onto

our on, not onto our property,

541

but neighboring properties.

542

Brian Searl: Ah okay.

543

Stephanie Kichler: They rotate

cattle on their public land leases.

544

And so once the cows are released

in an area where they're leased

545

to be, the cows move about freely.

546

We are a fence out State in Utah,

which is pretty common in the west.

547

And so if you want the cows to stay

out, you have to fence them out.

548

We have most of the border, our property

border, it's 10 acres fenced, but

549

like where you drive in is not fenced.

550

There's a big wash that they can

get up into and get under the fence.

551

So there are access points into the

property and by golly they find them.

552

Brian Searl: It's fascinating to me, like

I keep learning this as I travel and I do

553

wildlife tours and things like that, how

smart some of these animals actually are.

554

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

555

Brian Searl: It really

is fascinating to me.

556

Like we were in I came back from Ireland

a few weeks ago and we had gone on a

557

couple roads, like up in the mountains

and there was like literally I think

558

40 or 50 sheep on the road and I don't

know where the stereotype came from.

559

I thought it in my head, but

I don't remember ever learning

560

it that sheep are dumb.

561

But we actually Chat GPT did when

we came down from the mountain.

562

They're like, no, they're

sheep are really smart.

563

They're just, they don't wanna move.

564

They're lazy.

565

And but it was talking about how sheep are

really smart and intelligent and go with

566

the herd and watch out for each other.

567

And it's just, but it's fascinating

to see, like we were up in Churchill,

568

Manitoba and learned that the polar

bears would figure out how to go

569

fishing off a rock when the tide came

in and out to grab beluga whales.

570

And then the polar bear would learn

how to do it and he would teach

571

the other polar bears how to do it.

572

So it was just fascinating to see

how smart some of those animals are.

573

I think, anyway.

574

Stephanie Kichler: And I will,

I could tell you I could write

575

a novel on mice in the desert.

576

It's just about being

smarter than them out here.

577

It's of course there's mice out here.

578

Of course they're running

around everywhere.

579

But it's oh, maybe not leave the chip

bag open on the floor of your tent.

580

Gotta be smarter than the mice.

581

They are smart and they are around.

582

But we try to keep 'em out.

583

Brian Searl: Do you wanna

talk about Marriott?

584

Go ahead Scott.

585

Go.

586

Scott Foos: Oh, no, I was just, I'm sorry.

587

I was just gonna say one, one thing

about that I think, managing the guest

588

experience with that can be, a bit of

a challenge, making sure I compare it

589

to properties that have a lot of bears

and you're in bear country, right?

590

Giving them all the things they can't do.

591

Don't leave your food out, don't can be.

592

A little intimidating as a guest,

especially if you're not like used to it.

593

And I know bears are different

than mice, but it's still a prop.

594

No one likes to see a mouse in there.

595

Yeah.

596

They don't like to see,

597

Stephanie Kichler: I take a little

bit of a perspective of don't,

598

not saying don't do x, y, and z.

599

I take in perspective of saying,

you're going to hear mouse

600

you're, the mice are outside.

601

They're totally fine outside.

602

Ideally, we don't want them in your

tent, so you know, to not have them

603

in your tent, I'll just put all your

trash inside or take it to our dumpster.

604

Scott Foos: Yeah.

605

Stephanie Kichler: And so it's

really, it's how we also frame it.

606

'cause then it's oh, I

don't want the mice inside.

607

And it's then when they hear the

mouse or they hear the coyote outside,

608

they're like, good, it's outside.

609

Scott Foos: Yeah.

610

Stephanie Kichler: Perfect.

611

So it's just managing

expectations with that.

612

If you tell them, they'll hear

mice and then they hear mice.

613

Checks out.

614

I heard him out.

615

He said I would.

616

Brian Searl: Yeah, I, it's

interesting you talk about, 'cause

617

it's, it is how you frame it, right?

618

Everything is how you frame it.

619

And so and I'm gonna stereotypically

say campgrounds 'cause I travel

620

all around in 2013, 14, building my

business, videotaping campgrounds.

621

But like it was always the do

not do this, do not do this,

622

do not do this, do not do this.

623

Do not do this.

624

It was listed 20.

625

And we would come across the owners who

would literally stand there at the counter

626

and read every single one of the people.

627

Are you sure you got this?

628

Did you, but if you just reframe

that a little bit and say something

629

like, Hey, we do have friendly

mice that run around the property.

630

They're usually not in your

tent, but they love potato chips.

631

If you wanna see a mouse,

please feel free to leave your

632

potato chip thing on the floor.

633

If not, then but just.

634

Don't leave potato chips on the floor is

different than if you wanna see a mouse,

635

leave your potato chips on the floor.

636

Stephanie Kichler: Yep.

637

Yeah.

638

Scott Foos: And I think speaking, just

from the experience that I have in talking

639

and working with individual owners in

operators, I feel like a lot of people,

640

not to generalize or stereotype, but they

start off with the best of intentions.

641

And that it's Hey, this happened and this

has happened five times and I'm tired.

642

I'm really like, I worked all day.

643

I'm burned out.

644

And so the list just starts

to grow of like grievances.

645

And it, people don't often

understand how it comes across and

646

they'll take the position that,

it's my park, you'll stay my way.

647

And that's not.

648

That's fine.

649

It is your park and you can have people

stay your way, but it's not effective.

650

So I think making sure people operators

and owners can give themself enough

651

space to disconnect a little bit and or

bring somebody in to help operate for

652

them or be a great general manager for

them to allow them to maybe re distance

653

themselves a bit from the things that.

654

Which I get like you've done it

for eight years or nine years.

655

Brian Searl: It's human nature.

656

Like it's human nature to react that way.

657

Like we've talked about when I, years

ago when I would only do review responses

658

for parks, we would give them away books

and we would look at quotes and we would

659

look at studies that say like when you

get a negative review, your mood goes

660

down and it stays down for a whole day.

661

And then it comes back up to normal.

662

But if you get a positive review,

your mood spikes, then it goes right

663

back down like a couple hours later.

664

I'm not doing a good job

drawing here, but I understand.

665

But yeah, it's human psychology, right?

666

And so that those negative

things do pile up.

667

Like I think it's really

interesting because it's not just

668

Campground owners, it's me too.

669

In my business it's probably you too,

Scott and your business with things

670

that we deal with that we're like

frustrated and we wanna do things

671

differently and we don't understand how

other people perceive what we're doing.

672

Good, bad, middle of the road, whatever.

673

I think it's really interesting, and

I'm not gonna switch the conversation

674

to this, but the way I use AI.

675

I have prompted my AI and said, I want you

to always use the Socratic method with me.

676

I want you to think from first

principles and whatever question I

677

ask you, if it is opinion based and

not fact based, I want you to always

678

gimme the other side of the argument.

679

And that has really helped me understand

and see through other people's lenses.

680

And so that's one of the good things I

think that AI has brought to the world.

681

Perhaps if you use it.

682

Totally.

683

Stephanie Kichler: Sorry about that guys.

684

The guy is here and the dog is barking.

685

Just real life out here.

686

Brian Searl: Oh, that's totally fine.

687

Yeah.

688

I understand.

689

Do we wanna talk about

Marriott a little bit?

690

Sure.

691

I'm curious to hear your

thoughts first, Scott.

692

Scott Foos: Yeah.

693

Do we want to for listeners that

may not know the news, do you wanna.

694

Brian Searl: Stephanie, do you know?

695

Yeah.

696

Stephanie Kichler: No, I'm not

sure what you're talking about.

697

Brian Searl: All right.

698

Now Stephanie's gonna know.

699

She's our audience of one.

700

Nobody else watches the show,

Stephanie, just so you know.

701

Go ahead.

702

Scott Foos: A as I understand it

they, Marriott announced maybe

703

last week or on October 1st.

704

I'll, I guess that was last week that I.

705

Brian Searl: I'll Chat GPT while you talk.

706

Scott Foos: Okay, great.

707

Thank you.

708

They have they have launched a a

franchise or a platform opportunity called

709

Outdoor Collection by Marriott Bonvoy.

710

None of this is, should be a surprise

given their acquisition of postcard

711

cabins last winter and their long-term

partnership with trail born hotels.

712

But as again, as I understand it,

the the ability to have a franchise

713

or be a part of the Marriott world

with a franchise for the for outdoor

714

hospitality property specifically.

715

Those that have lodging units, not at

this time RV at, it's my understanding.

716

Brian Searl: Yeah.

717

Scott Foos: But it's geared

more around glamping properties

718

specifically that, that want to

take advantage of that franchise.

719

And really, of course, in doing so, one of

the many benefits I'm sure is that you are

720

able to participate in the the audience

that they can bring to your property

721

through the Bonvoy platform, and have

those folks be able to earn and redeem

722

rewards while staying with you as well.

723

It's a huge, to me it's a very high level.

724

It's very and I mean that by it's

more enterprise level at this point.

725

I think it's going to be interesting

to see how smaller properties fit into

726

that, what revenue minimums Marriott

will require or key count minimums to

727

make it worthwhile for them and how

those, like the length of the franchise

728

agreements and that sort of thing.

729

I think there's still a lot

to get figured out personally.

730

But I think it's.

731

It was an inevitable

move and I'm here for it.

732

Brian Searl: Yeah, my Chat GPT

is thinking forever and ever.

733

Curious, before I give this

answer Stephanie, what are

734

your thoughts on the initial.

735

Stephanie Kichler: I'm just

looking at it right now.

736

Initially it reminds me of like

when REI went in and did REI

737

experiences, which is now closed.

738

And so that's what dinged off in my

head is just that kind of parallel

739

there, a big company getting into just

a different market, different niche.

740

And maybe it'll work and maybe it won't.

741

REI, I know closed what, last year?

742

The year before.

743

Brian Searl: Yeah.

744

That would be sad.

745

REI experiences was

pretty good experience.

746

Using experiences too much.

747

But yeah, I heard great things.

748

But they didn't own resorts, did they?

749

They just took people on

hiking trips and they.

750

Stephanie Kichler: Was just hiking.

751

They did close everything.

752

So that's no longer in operation.

753

I think last year they stopped doing

them all and and my other world

754

that I work in is Expeditions and

Big Mountain Expeditions, though.

755

Queued into that outdoor

world of expeditions, trips,

756

hiking trips, all that.

757

But I'm, generally speaking, I try to

have the mindset that more people that

758

are doing glamping, people that are coming

to the table, it's better for us overall.

759

Because it's more approachable

for people if Marriott starts

760

doing this and it's great.

761

It just elevates the whole

glamping community, holds us to a

762

great standard which is awesome.

763

And then we also continue to hold them to

a great standard by having our independent

764

skillset sets and mindset out here.

765

We're setting the tone, we're setting

the bar for people like them even.

766

I really try to look at it as not

competition, as we are just stronger

767

together when more people learn

about glamping and feel comfortable

768

with trying it 'cause it is unique.

769

Brian Searl: I think I tend

to agree with that sentiment.

770

Let me read the what Chat

GPT brought back to me.

771

So it's Marriott's new nature

first collection brand that lets

772

you earn and use bonvoy points at

cabins and boutique outdoor hotels.

773

So this is interesting to me.

774

I saw a few places that it's

not just glamping it's also like

775

they're taking some of their resorts

that are more nature focused and

776

putting 'em in this collection too.

777

So that'll be like, we've continued

to not fight, but gently disagree

778

over what glamping is forever.

779

So I think that's about to go through

maybe another definition here.

780

Yeah, that Marriott will drive,

781

Stephanie Kichler: I'm looking at

it and there's like this surfing one

782

that's definitely like a boutique hotel.

783

It's in North Carolina

or something like that.

784

Brian Searl: But I think

those are outdoor hospitality.

785

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

786

Yeah.

787

Brian Searl: I really do.

788

We've talked about covering those

in Modern Campground before.

789

I think something that really

connects you to nature.

790

Primarily not just has a yard outside

or access to a beach, but something

791

that is truly nature focused.

792

There's some really good resorts in

Costa Rica that I would call glamping.

793

Stephanie Kichler: Absolutely.

794

Brian Searl: I've never

been to Costa Rica.

795

I've just looked at the pictures.

796

I, one day I'll make

enough money to go, but.

797

Scott Foos: I think, it's, it'll be

interesting too to, to consider and

798

watch the evolution of the brand because

when I saw some of I, I believe I saw.

799

I can't remember exactly

which brand it is, but it's a

800

well-known brand for some reason.

801

The Four Seasons keeps coming out

to me, but I could be, I'm treading

802

the waters that I'm not completely

familiar with at this point.

803

Brian Searl: It's totally fine.

804

I do that every week.

805

Scott, feel comfortable.

806

Scott Foos: But it, I, it was a mountain

side just ski and ski out hotel.

807

Brian Searl: Okay.

808

Scott Foos: Maybe that

could be cons, like Yes.

809

Okay.

810

It is action, it is outdoor oriented

because you are attracting people that

811

want the ski and ski out capabilities,

but I, as the brand grows, is that truly

812

the focus and or is that maybe a way

to have additional offerings at this

813

point while they're working on bringing

in more of the postcard cabin type.

814

Truly, those glamping properties that

don't share walls that that are, truly,

815

maybe defined by glamping in, in that way.

816

But either way it's still the point

is to they're recognizing, I think

817

the strength of this space the guests

desiring to disconnect a bit and have

818

something that's more unique and more

memorable than just another hotel room.

819

And in many ways, I would say that

yes, like Field Station by Auto Camp

820

or Trail Born, those are awesome.

821

It's an awesome concept and I'd

love to stay in them, but at

822

the same time, it is a different

experience than say, Basecamp 37.

823

It is completely different, right?

824

Like it's themed, it has it has the gear

shop and that sort of thing that you

825

can utilize, which, so you are going to

say Moab and you do want to ride bikes

826

and want to be able to bring it back

and fix up your bike or whatever it is.

827

That's great.

828

But at the same time, it's different

than being able to bike directly from

829

your glamping tent, where Basecamp 37 is.

830

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah,

no, a hundred percent.

831

That makes sense.

832

Brian Searl: Yeah.

833

I think that's the difference, right?

834

So like I've, I keep just going

back to Ireland 'cause it's fresh

835

in my mind, but we stayed at a great

place called Fin Lock up there.

836

Which was a glamping resort on a lake.

837

And I sent a couple people the email

they sent me when they arrived, and

838

it was like the high touch point.

839

Here's an online portal you can go to.

840

Do you want firewood?

841

Do you want wine?

842

Do we can have this in

advance to your site?

843

And it was very easy

to do that in advance.

844

But when you got there, they had

like really nice bubble tents.

845

But they, I they seemed

to have customized them.

846

And maybe I just haven't been

in a bubble tent in a long time.

847

But like most bubble tents have the

airlock there, don't they Scott,

848

like to keep the bubble tent afloat.

849

Scott Foos: I'm not too familiar

with with that structure.

850

Brian Searl: Anyway, so it was

a nice, but they had nice bubble

851

tents along the river, whatever.

852

They had some cabins, but

it was a big, huge resort.

853

And so you could walk out of the back

of your door and you were secluded,

854

like there was a row in there, but

everybody had trees between them.

855

You couldn't tell anybody was near,

nearby you, et cetera, et cetera.

856

But then like it was a whole huge property

where you could go onto a lake and you

857

could have kayaks and paddleboard rentals.

858

They had a full chef driven, like

five star restaurant that was

859

like, that I think is the big thing

that people will come for, right?

860

Is the food.

861

But they had a bunch of activities

and they had saunas, and they had spas

862

and they had, so it was just a big,

huge property that like, we didn't

863

get to take advantage of a lot of it.

864

That whole thing you're talking

about I'm at my resort, but now I

865

can bike or go wherever I want to

go without leaving the property is

866

what really is the difference maker

versus just the accommodation I think.

867

Stephanie Kichler: I feel like

here in Kanab, it is a massive

868

tourist destination here.

869

Maybe you've never heard of it.

870

It is a small little town, but

it's like a Springdale it's

871

like a Moab, things like that.

872

We're a gateway town to all these parks.

873

And I think more and more what I,

what we are seeing, because we really

874

had a bust with Airbnbs, a boom,

I'm sorry, a boom with Airbnbs.

875

More glamping places coming

up, things like that.

876

And we do have a lot of hotels as well.

877

A lot of the Airbnbs are actually shutting

down the single family home Airbnbs that

878

aren't offering this type of experience.

879

A number of my friends do

own really nice Airbnbs here.

880

We of course, have the glamping property

and folks are really looking for

881

that experience like you keep saying.

882

And the experience is sitting

outside, watching the stars,

883

roasting a marshmallow.

884

Even as simple as that, the experiences

sleeping in the tent it being a

885

really curated, beautiful space.

886

And I think more and more, especially

in these towns that are touristy

887

and bringing in people for a certain

reason, people are here to hike.

888

They're here to go to Antelope Canyon,

they're here to go to Horseshoe

889

Bend, they're here to go to Zion.

890

And so they wanna carry that as much

as they can into their accommodations,

891

or they're just like hotels, chill.

892

This is cool.

893

It's easy going straight to

the hotel, and that's fine too.

894

Brian Searl: Yeah.

895

And your property works, like

how many amenities do you

896

have or is it just the tents?

897

Stephanie Kichler: I don't know if I

could, I, we have a number of amenities

898

and a lot of it is little things.

899

Like we provide the

marshmallows and s'mores.

900

We have like little snacks for

people that are already out.

901

We of course provide all the

propane and all the wood.

902

You don't have to pay

for any of your wood.

903

We're in a fire ban, so we're

on propane fire pits right now.

904

But all of that is provided, so the

only thing they really have to bring

905

is just food to cook themselves.

906

So we don't have onsite food facilities.

907

Brian Searl: Yeah.

908

Stephanie Kichler: But we have two

beautiful state-of-the-art kitchens

909

that they can cook in fully stocked

with like olive oil, salt peppers,

910

condiments in the door already for them.

911

Brian Searl: But that works

for you I think, right?

912

Given your location and that

everybody's coming to you to leave you.

913

If that makes sense, to go to Zion, to

go to Bryce, to go to Canyon, whatever.

914

Stephanie Kichler: And that's part of

the name is we, the idea is that it's

915

your base camp because you're an hour

from Zion, you're hour and a half from

916

Grand Canyon, hour and a half from

Bryce, an hour from Antelope Canyon.

917

So it's, the idea is that's, we're

in the middle and you come here in

918

the evening to relax and kick back.

919

It's like our tagline,

oh, I'm blanking it.

920

It's because a great day of fun

deserves an equally awesome evening.

921

'cause we know you're

what you're doing all day.

922

And that's part of our amenities

also, is to get me who's sitting here

923

saying, get into Zion at this time.

924

Do this trail.

925

You didn't get an Angel's Landing permit.

926

Go to Scout Lookout.

927

This is actually my favorite Vista.

928

No one will be there.

929

Here's a GPS pen.

930

Oh, you wanna go to White Pocket?

931

Great.

932

It's free to go.

933

Here's how you get there.

934

You wanna do a tour?

935

These are our friends that do

canyoneering tours, here's a discount.

936

And so part of it is my love for

maps and my love for the region and

937

collectively that we can sit down and

actually have real conversations with

938

these people before or during their trip

and tell them, oh, you wanna do this?

939

Oh, you wanna hike one mile?

940

That's it all day today.

941

Cool.

942

Go to these three spots.

943

'Cause we know that it's gonna be

low hiking and big views, big reward.

944

So yeah.

945

Yeah.

946

Brian Searl: But the naming is

important, like you talk about, right?

947

Like I feel like sometimes, and

maybe Scott, you feel the same way.

948

I don't know if you want to, this is

dangerous territory waiting to this.

949

I feel like the United States and

Canada tend to overcomplicate naming

950

sometimes, like I went over to Ireland

and the hotels that don't have places to

951

eat, they're just called self catering.

952

Oh.

953

Like in the name of everything.

954

It's it's a self catering hotel.

955

It's the name of the hotel.

956

And I'm like, that's really easy.

957

Why did we lose that when we came

over from English to English?

958

I'm not sure.

959

But yeah, that stuff is that just,

and that reduces the need to answer

960

so many questions too and do extra

customer service and sets expectations

961

for people and stuff like that.

962

So it does say in Chat GPT that

Marriott is not franchising

963

yet, at least not publicly.

964

It launched with postcard cabins,

and Trailborn there, and there's

965

no outdoor collection page yet

on their owner development site.

966

So I'm just reading a few more things.

967

Scott Foos: I think it's, I think that's

coming and, because, my, as I think about

968

it, and I wish, I know Zach Stoltenberg

was was at the Lodging Conference this

969

week, and I wish he was on here to, to

share what he was learning firsthand.

970

But they had a number of vendors there.

971

Cabin manufacturers specifically.

972

Brian Searl: Creek Zip cabins.

973

Scott Foos: Yeah.

974

Yep.

975

Nokin.

976

Yeah.

977

Those, that, that are, you know, now

preferred or maybe approved if you want

978

to classify it as that vendors with

Marriott for the Outdoor Collection to

979

provide units that I am assuming meet.

980

Levels, franchise standard levels.

981

And I think that for me, when I think

like practically about the implementation,

982

about of this, the mass implementation

of this in our industry, knowing how

983

fragmented and how different every

property is and how fragmented our

984

industry is as a whole and the size of a

lot of glamping operators specifically,

985

many glamping operations are in

the 10 to 20 key count and smaller.

986

And, knowing revenue minimums

or what I understand of some

987

revenue minimums and key counts.

988

Brian Searl: It's the 70 key counts.

989

They won't franchise anything less

than 70, is what I understood.

990

Yeah.

991

It's years and years

ago it might've changed.

992

Yeah.

993

Scott Foos: Yeah.

994

They have to change it, right?

995

To to truly get into this space.

996

And I think that's what I keep coming

back to is I am here for it because

997

I do think it does raise the profile,

Brian as you said, and Stephanie you

998

alluded to also, that it does open

us up to a larger audience and they,

999

many people are wanting to shop and

stay with points or earn points.

00:44:40,882 --> 00:44:42,112

That's very powerful.

00:44:42,262 --> 00:44:48,442

And I think we have the ability to

provide maybe even greater experiences

00:44:48,442 --> 00:44:52,732

than they might have at a branded

hotel by nature of what we do.

00:44:53,777 --> 00:44:59,307

But how we can, how they get into

our space and how they actually

00:44:59,307 --> 00:45:00,927

can implement it at scale.

00:45:01,077 --> 00:45:04,057

I'm really excited to, to

watch and be a part of.

00:45:04,387 --> 00:45:09,937

I know Best Western Hotels is also going

after this, the same segment there.

00:45:09,937 --> 00:45:14,817

I maybe a bit er a bit later than

outdoor collection in terms of scale.

00:45:15,057 --> 00:45:18,117

But they are also trying to

pursue franchise opportunities

00:45:18,117 --> 00:45:19,377

that I know of for sure.

00:45:19,897 --> 00:45:23,877

And of course Hyatt with I believe

with their acquisition of Under Canvas

00:45:23,907 --> 00:45:25,617

or partnership with Under Canvas.

00:45:25,667 --> 00:45:29,217

That's, these things are happening,

but how they happen with the vast

00:45:29,217 --> 00:45:32,787

majority of operations in the

space will, is to be determined.

00:45:33,057 --> 00:45:35,427

Brian Searl: I'll play devil's advocate

for a second and say what if it doesn't

00:45:35,427 --> 00:45:36,627

raise the profile of the industry?

00:45:36,627 --> 00:45:37,167

Now hear me out.

00:45:37,167 --> 00:45:37,257

Sure.

00:45:37,797 --> 00:45:42,507

Because Marriott is not advertising this

as glamping anywhere that I've seen.

00:45:42,507 --> 00:45:44,007

They're not using that word.

00:45:44,067 --> 00:45:45,687

Have you seen it anywhere, Scott?

00:45:46,887 --> 00:45:47,187

The word?

00:45:47,192 --> 00:45:50,222

Scott Foos: I thought I saw

glamping, but I could be mistaken.

00:45:50,592 --> 00:45:53,532

Brian Searl: I've seen outdoor

collection, I've seen outdoor hospitality.

00:45:53,532 --> 00:45:55,152

I've seen bonvoy outdoors.

00:45:55,152 --> 00:45:58,692

I haven't seen glamping tied to

the Marriott announcement yet.

00:45:58,752 --> 00:45:59,772

Scott Foos: Cabins.

00:45:59,802 --> 00:46:02,442

Brian Searl: Yeah, cabin cabins have

cabins because postcard cabins, right?

00:46:02,892 --> 00:46:03,132

Scott Foos: Yeah.

00:46:03,162 --> 00:46:06,042

Brian Searl: So it'll be interesting

to see, if as people begin to stay

00:46:06,042 --> 00:46:10,062

at these Marriott resorts, redeem

their points, experience the postcard

00:46:10,062 --> 00:46:14,052

cabins and all that stuff, do they

actually connect that to glamping if

00:46:14,052 --> 00:46:15,642

they have no other experience with it?

00:46:15,642 --> 00:46:18,072

Or do they connect that to,

I've never had something before.

00:46:18,072 --> 00:46:22,467

This is cabin rentals, or this is

Marriott, or this is, and so it'll

00:46:22,467 --> 00:46:25,677

be interesting to see how much that

translates into the overall excitement

00:46:25,677 --> 00:46:26,997

for the glamping industry as a whole.

00:46:27,687 --> 00:46:28,047

Scott Foos: Yeah.

00:46:29,007 --> 00:46:30,687

I think that's, I think

that's a really valid point.

00:46:30,687 --> 00:46:32,427

Brian and I'm on their site now.

00:46:32,477 --> 00:46:36,167

They have stays and outdoor destinations

on their homepage it says, pursue

00:46:36,167 --> 00:46:40,247

the activities you love at over

450 properties around the world.

00:46:40,247 --> 00:46:43,087

And they have different segments,

one of which is hike and glamping.

00:46:43,492 --> 00:46:45,827

Then you can drill into the states.

00:46:45,827 --> 00:46:50,717

But my point is, I feel or

internationally too, like US,

00:46:51,332 --> 00:46:54,242

Canada, Asia Pacific, Caribbean,

Europe, and Middle East and Africa.

00:46:54,302 --> 00:46:59,552

So with 450 properties around the world,

they're clearly taking properties that

00:46:59,552 --> 00:47:06,422

are already in the Marriott ecosystem

and classifying some of those as,

00:47:06,762 --> 00:47:11,262

things you can do if you are outdoor

focused, which is great, right?

00:47:11,302 --> 00:47:12,532

Connect people to the outdoors.

00:47:12,532 --> 00:47:14,092

That's one of our, one of the missions.

00:47:14,202 --> 00:47:21,972

But it's different than I think what we're

talking about here with truly no shared

00:47:21,972 --> 00:47:24,072

walls and that true group experience.

00:47:24,122 --> 00:47:27,422

Brian Searl: And so then did, but then

does that serve to also raise expectations

00:47:27,422 --> 00:47:32,822

on operators like Stephanie now who

are, Marriott, I had hot water and I

00:47:32,822 --> 00:47:36,182

had this, and I had that and I had air

conditioning and I had luxury bedding

00:47:36,182 --> 00:47:38,782

and I had and I think there, there's

still gonna be lots of people who will

00:47:38,782 --> 00:47:40,492

go to all different types of experiences.

00:47:40,942 --> 00:47:43,462

But it'll be interesting to just

see, I don't think that impact

00:47:43,462 --> 00:47:45,472

is all going to be positive.

00:47:46,192 --> 00:47:46,492

Stephanie Kichler: Yeah.

00:47:47,557 --> 00:47:48,427

No, definitely.

00:47:48,427 --> 00:47:48,967

I agree.

00:47:49,027 --> 00:47:51,157

There are some glamping

places that are super rustic.

00:47:51,157 --> 00:47:51,877

We are proud.

00:47:51,877 --> 00:47:53,647

Everything you just listed

there was like, check check.

00:47:53,647 --> 00:47:56,377

No AC, but we do have

AC in the guest lodge.

00:47:56,407 --> 00:47:59,227

And we run it during the

daylight when this power is free.

00:47:59,627 --> 00:48:03,837

But we do try to really keep those

amenities high and not, our tents

00:48:03,837 --> 00:48:05,152

don't have private bathrooms.

00:48:05,187 --> 00:48:06,717

You have to go to the

shared space for that.

00:48:06,717 --> 00:48:09,387

So that's one thing that is,

different and sets us apart from

00:48:09,387 --> 00:48:11,907

a lot of the other operators, but

it also keeps our margins low.

00:48:11,907 --> 00:48:15,937

It keeps our price more affordable which

is actually super intentional on our side.

00:48:16,232 --> 00:48:17,812

But I absolutely get what you're saying.

00:48:17,872 --> 00:48:23,262

The hot water, having luxury

linens just nice pillows, nice

00:48:23,262 --> 00:48:25,242

feeling things goes a long way.

00:48:25,352 --> 00:48:28,327

And I actually, I'm, I've seen that

some glamour properties where they

00:48:28,327 --> 00:48:30,667

were a little bit lower and you like,

brought your bedding and there was

00:48:30,667 --> 00:48:31,852

like mouse poop all over one wall.

00:48:32,372 --> 00:48:32,822

I was boom.

00:48:33,442 --> 00:48:34,717

Brian Searl: And that's the danger, right?

00:48:34,717 --> 00:48:38,647

That's the danger is like is, I think

there's, there already is a split

00:48:38,707 --> 00:48:42,277

between like even luxury camping

and non-luxury camping, right?

00:48:42,312 --> 00:48:45,122

And there's often, other than I

guess you could point to maybe

00:48:45,122 --> 00:48:47,072

KOA holiday, being in the middle.

00:48:47,882 --> 00:48:51,992

But there really isn't a clear definition

of what in the middle is in the camping

00:48:51,992 --> 00:48:55,532

industry, especially now after COVID

when we've had this boom and everybody's

00:48:55,532 --> 00:48:57,182

building these huge luxury resorts.

00:48:57,822 --> 00:49:01,367

Scott Foos: And I think that's

becoming more necessary from the

00:49:01,367 --> 00:49:03,077

guest expectation perspective.

00:49:03,077 --> 00:49:07,577

And also on the other side of it

from a data aggregation and analysis

00:49:07,577 --> 00:49:11,717

perspective too, for us to really

start to understand classifications

00:49:11,717 --> 00:49:14,207

of properties and performance

metrics and that sort of thing.

00:49:14,547 --> 00:49:17,367

Based on that, and I know there

are some really smart folks in

00:49:17,367 --> 00:49:18,657

the industry working on that.

00:49:19,197 --> 00:49:23,942

But I think one point I wanted to

mention too with this is when we think

00:49:23,942 --> 00:49:28,802

about outdoor hospitality and those

properties that maybe have higher

00:49:28,802 --> 00:49:33,092

key counts with, and when we say key

counts, meaning specific like lodging

00:49:33,092 --> 00:49:39,902

units that are able to perhaps qualify

with key count revenue minimums for

00:49:39,902 --> 00:49:41,972

something like a, an outdoor collection.

00:49:42,407 --> 00:49:44,807

A lot of them are going

to have RV sites as well.

00:49:44,877 --> 00:49:48,467

A lot of institutional players in

our space are combo properties.

00:49:48,467 --> 00:49:49,667

And how does that work?

00:49:50,007 --> 00:49:55,572

We've and we actually, we have asked

the question of Marriott and the answer

00:49:55,572 --> 00:49:57,732

right now is we're figuring it out.

00:49:57,892 --> 00:49:59,362

It's not something that fits today.

00:49:59,362 --> 00:50:00,352

We're figuring it out.

00:50:00,832 --> 00:50:03,022

But it is something that does

need to be figured out, in my

00:50:03,022 --> 00:50:05,612

opinion, for for greater adoption.

00:50:05,672 --> 00:50:07,172

But I think it's different audience.

00:50:07,172 --> 00:50:07,742

Even more.

00:50:07,952 --> 00:50:08,312

Yeah.

00:50:08,317 --> 00:50:08,497

Brian Searl: Yeah.

00:50:08,522 --> 00:50:09,542

I think it's a different audience.

00:50:09,542 --> 00:50:13,502

I think the people who are willing to

go glamping at a Campground or an RV

00:50:13,502 --> 00:50:15,512

park, there's nothing wrong with that.

00:50:15,512 --> 00:50:17,162

It's great properties, great experiences.

00:50:17,162 --> 00:50:19,532

A lot of operators are doing it well,

but I think that's a totally different

00:50:19,532 --> 00:50:21,572

audience than the people who stay with

Stephanie or will stay with Marriott.

00:50:21,572 --> 00:50:21,842

Scott Foos: That's right.

00:50:21,842 --> 00:50:26,412

It's, It is definitely a different

than what Stephanie offers.

00:50:27,042 --> 00:50:32,422

But, again, what kind of at what

enterprise level are they setting

00:50:32,422 --> 00:50:36,087

to, to participate in the program

and who is who are those people?

00:50:36,487 --> 00:50:38,227

That's kinda what I keep coming back to.

00:50:39,217 --> 00:50:42,667

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think as they

expand, if as they, if they expand the

00:50:42,667 --> 00:50:48,347

brand, as you see the different types

of hotels and brands that Marriott has

00:50:48,347 --> 00:50:51,707

now, they've obviously acquired Starwood

and a few other places years ago, right?

00:50:51,707 --> 00:50:54,437

So they have up to 22 or

24 brands or something now.

00:50:55,067 --> 00:50:57,707

And so there's different Marriott

brands for everything different.

00:50:57,707 --> 00:51:00,887

I think eventually there might be a

different brand if they end up taking

00:51:00,887 --> 00:51:03,167

down that path for the places with RVs.

00:51:03,167 --> 00:51:06,497

There almost has to be, because I

think if you mix those two, then

00:51:06,497 --> 00:51:09,107

the guest gets really confused and

it's a, as we just talked about,

00:51:09,107 --> 00:51:10,097

it's a different kind of guest.

00:51:10,097 --> 00:51:13,237

i've talked, we've had the RV industry

on the show multiple times, and I've

00:51:13,237 --> 00:51:16,447

told the RV industry, like the RV

industry stands for recreational vehicle.

00:51:16,447 --> 00:51:17,107

You know that, right?

00:51:17,107 --> 00:51:19,657

The amount of things that you could do

with that in the future and define as

00:51:19,657 --> 00:51:22,487

a recreational vehicle is I don't know.

00:51:23,207 --> 00:51:26,697

I don't know that RVs is the

number one future of our industry.

00:51:27,007 --> 00:51:29,417

I don't, I can't tell you that

with a straight face, Scott.

00:51:30,737 --> 00:51:31,127

I can't.

00:51:31,177 --> 00:51:31,387

Scott Foos: I.

00:51:31,387 --> 00:51:34,537

Brian Searl: That it's an important

piece of it to be clear, but is it the

00:51:34,537 --> 00:51:38,497

number one driver of what it has been

for the last 60 years going forward?

00:51:39,257 --> 00:51:43,497

Scott Foos: Just look at the, look at the

proliferation of like camper vans, right?

00:51:43,497 --> 00:51:49,387

Like that, I know that's, that's,

that is an RV, but is it Right?

00:51:49,387 --> 00:51:51,847

Brian Searl: Like I, no, for what I

just said that came outta my mouth.

00:51:51,847 --> 00:51:52,927

I don't consider it camping man.

00:51:52,957 --> 00:51:53,917

Camper van's part of that.

00:51:54,457 --> 00:51:54,667

Yeah.

00:51:54,667 --> 00:51:56,137

I'm talking about the

stuff made in Elkhart.

00:51:56,827 --> 00:51:57,097

Scott Foos: Yeah.

00:51:57,097 --> 00:51:57,157

Yeah.

00:51:57,367 --> 00:51:57,667

Yeah.

00:51:59,782 --> 00:52:02,122

Brian Searl: Yeah, it's,

it is an interesting topic.

00:52:02,122 --> 00:52:05,212

Like it's, and we tread careful thin,

like we don't wanna upset anybody, right?

00:52:05,237 --> 00:52:06,972

There's nothing wrong with

the RV industry to be clear.

00:52:07,662 --> 00:52:10,572

It's just, it's an interesting

dynamic as we head toward,

00:52:10,782 --> 00:52:11,862

everything's more expensive.

00:52:11,862 --> 00:52:13,632

People can't even afford

their first house.

00:52:14,212 --> 00:52:17,002

I think I read a report the other day

that like, and even in Canada, like

00:52:17,002 --> 00:52:21,952

in British Columbia, like 30 to 40%

of people have made trade-offs on ways

00:52:21,952 --> 00:52:24,862

they can afford the same food they

have and have cut different things.

00:52:24,862 --> 00:52:27,642

And we're just expecting these

people to go out and buy RVs.

00:52:27,972 --> 00:52:31,402

That's go going camping is a hard

sell when you can't afford food.

00:52:31,702 --> 00:52:33,172

Stephanie Kichler: Let alone

putting gas in that thing.

00:52:33,682 --> 00:52:33,982

Brian Searl: Yeah.

00:52:34,432 --> 00:52:34,882

Scott Foos: Yeah.

00:52:34,932 --> 00:52:35,382

Yeah.

00:52:36,102 --> 00:52:37,642

Brian Searl: So that's all I'm saying.

00:52:37,642 --> 00:52:40,762

I'm not saying that RVs are bad

or you shouldn't want to buy one.

00:52:41,182 --> 00:52:45,892

I just think the value prop is changing,

maybe temporarily, maybe it'll come back.

00:52:46,687 --> 00:52:51,157

Scott Foos: Yeah, I think it's like

accessibility and making sure that

00:52:51,507 --> 00:52:56,487

as an industry, the greater outdoor

hospitality industry remains accessible

00:52:56,487 --> 00:53:01,887

and you can't just be accessible through

the purchase and utilization of an RV.

00:53:01,887 --> 00:53:05,187

I think, and that's where RV share

can come into play and that sort

00:53:05,187 --> 00:53:07,617

of like ways to do it, but still

00:53:07,677 --> 00:53:08,427

Brian Searl: For sure, yes.

00:53:08,427 --> 00:53:08,697

Scott Foos: To your point.

00:53:08,847 --> 00:53:09,087

Yeah.

00:53:09,237 --> 00:53:11,457

Brian Searl: That's the ultimate

goal is bringing people close

00:53:11,457 --> 00:53:12,687

to nature in the outdoors.

00:53:12,687 --> 00:53:16,287

And if that happens to places

like Stephanie's, places like

00:53:16,287 --> 00:53:18,147

you run Scott for Horizon.

00:53:18,517 --> 00:53:21,577

Whether that happens to Marriott

Bonvoy, whether that happens to trade,

00:53:21,577 --> 00:53:23,947

RV parks, like it, that's the idea.

00:53:23,977 --> 00:53:26,167

Let's just get people closer and

connected to nature, I think.

00:53:26,167 --> 00:53:28,687

So any final thoughts,

Scott, on our discussion?

00:53:29,512 --> 00:53:32,062

We didn't get to Sora 2, but

you get to another episode.

00:53:33,232 --> 00:53:36,962

Scott Foos: No I would just say that,

there, there is a lot of buzz that I

00:53:36,962 --> 00:53:41,812

think I always, I try to come back to

the operator and, just keep focused

00:53:42,112 --> 00:53:45,642

on, you might be hearing this news

and wondering what that really means.

00:53:45,672 --> 00:53:50,472

And I think just continuing to stay

focused on your guest and providing those

00:53:50,472 --> 00:53:55,112

memorable experiences in ways that, like

Stephanie is able to do so with her guests

00:53:55,162 --> 00:53:58,972

and making sure that we're keeping that

human element front and center with that