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MC Fireside Chats - March 20th, 2024
20th March 2024 • MC Fireside Chats • Modern Campground LLC
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In a recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, a diverse panel of outdoor hospitality experts gathered to discuss the evolving landscape of campground and RV park development. The episode featured insights from Candice McNamara, Nate Thompson, Greg Emmert, Tyler Watts, Ed Bridgman, Moriah Abbott, Joe Duemig, and Scott Knepp, each bringing a unique perspective to the table. Candice McNamara, highlighting the importance of choosing the right reservation software, emphasized the multifaceted nature of the industry. Whether through building, buying, or affiliating with brands like Jellystone or KOA, McNamara pointed out the necessity of innovation and the role of technology in connecting with guests. She advocated for waitlisting and proactive communication as tools for building anticipation and engagement even before a park opens. Nate Thompson shared his experience with KOA, focusing on the value of data in making informed decisions about park expansion and development. He discussed the recent acquisition of a Gettysburg PA KOA, illustrating the importance of understanding a property’s potential for expansion and the need for thorough due diligence to uncover any potential issues that could impact development plans. Greg Emmert spoke to the philosophical aspects of campground development, stressing the importance of having a clear vision and story for a park. He argued that every aspect of a campground, from its layout to its operations, should reflect this vision to create a cohesive and compelling guest experience. Tyler Watts, sharing his journey of developing Broad River Campground from scratch, highlighted the learning curves and the importance of adaptability. He discussed the challenges of working with septic systems and the benefits of engaging with the local community and industry peers to learn from their experiences. Ed Bridgman, an expert in RV destination types, emphasized the importance of building the right type of facility for the local market. He cautioned against turning an existing property into something it’s not and underscored the value of understanding the local market to ensure the success of a development project. Moriah Abbott, representing Binghamton Jellystone Park, shared her approach to creating “wow moments” and memories for families. She discussed the park’s focus on catering to the needs of young families and the ongoing expansion efforts to accommodate larger RVs and provide more amenities. Joe Duemig introduced the concept of using mobile apps, like App My Community, for guest engagement and feedback. He highlighted the potential of technology to enhance the guest experience and the importance of gathering data directly from guests to inform development decisions. Scott Knepp discussed the challenges and opportunities of managing properties with varying needs and histories. He emphasized the importance of aligning the physical development of a park with its operational vision and the guest experience it aims to provide. Throughout the discussion, the panelists shared a common theme: the importance of understanding the market, engaging with guests, and leveraging data and technology to inform development decisions. They highlighted the collaborative nature of the outdoor hospitality industry and the value of sharing experiences and learning from one another. The episode of MC Fireside Chats provided a comprehensive overview of the complexities involved in developing and operating campgrounds and RV parks. Through the insights of the panelists, listeners gained a deeper understanding of the strategic considerations necessary to succeed in the outdoor hospitality industry.

Transcripts

Speaker:

This is MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show

featuring conversations with thought

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leaders, entrepreneurs, and outdoor

hospitality experts who share their

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insights to help your business succeed.

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Hosted by Brian Searl, the

founder and CEO of Insider Perks.

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Empowered by insights from Modern

Campground, the most innovative

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news source in the industry.

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Brian Searl: Welcome

everybody to another episode.

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MC Fireside Chats!

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My name's Brian Searl, with Insider Perks.

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Super excited to be here in

front of my virtual background.

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Am I lagging again?

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I don't know what's happening here, but

maybe there's a problem with restream.

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I feel like I'm lagging on my side,

but hopefully you all can hear me.

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Super excited to be here for another

episode of Campground Owner's Focus

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Discussion, and we've got so many people.

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We had so many people last

week on The Glamping Show.

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So many people this week.

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It's super crowded.

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We're going to have to end up

doing, I don't know, twice as

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many shows or something like that.

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Joe, will you host the rest of them?

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Or, I don't have enough time.

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You've got time to grow a beard, so

you've got time to do other stuff, right?

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Joe Duemig: Yeah, I don't

know about the time right now.

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Maybe in a couple months after

everyone's season's started,

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then I'll have some time again.

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Brian Searl: Alright, Scott

looks like he's on vacation.

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Where are you at, Scott?

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Scott Knepp: I'm in my backyard.

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It is beautiful springtime

in Georgia, my friend.

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Brian Searl: Can't wait till

I'm successful like you and I

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can afford a backyard like that.

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That's nice.

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Do you find that tree in the back end?

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In the back there, that's memorable.

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Scott Knepp: Oh, I was in it earlier.

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If you want a special segment

of me in the tree later.

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Brian Searl: I would, nobody remembers.

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Like I actually did a live

show from a tree one time.

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We were talking with Access Parks

about security like two years ago.

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It's really interesting.

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Scott Knepp: Oh, I

thought that was a dream.

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Brian Searl: That was real.

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Yeah.

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Oh, wow.

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Everybody likes to pretend every time

they talk to me that it's a dream and

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it's not real, which I understand.

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But, all welcome everybody.

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Super excited to have some

of our recurring guests back.

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Candice McNamara from Staylist,

Joe Duemig, App My Community.

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Let's you guys introduce

yourselves in a second.

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Nate Thompson from KCN Campground,

Scott Knepp from IVEE Group, and

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Greg Embert, too, is a return guest.

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I almost forgot that you were.

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That's all right.

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I'm not that memorable.

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And no, you're memorable.

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I just forgot you were a

recurring guest on this show.

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I don't know.

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You're everywhere.

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And it's Tyler Watts from

Broad River Campground and Ed

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Bridgman from EOB Consulting.

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We're going to go around the room and

just introduce everybody real quick.

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And Moriah, sorry, I didn't

mean to miss you, Moriah.

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Actually, I have surprisingly

only one eye in right now.

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My contact is also bad.

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I'm just falling apart today

on all aspects of things.

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Let's start with Candice

and go from there.

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Candice McNamara: Sure.

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I'm Candice with Staylist.

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I'm the Chief Growth Officer at Staylist,

a reservation software company that

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helps with an all in one platform.

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Brian Searl: Alright, let's,

Moriah, you can go next since I

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accidentally almost forgot you.

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Moriah Abbott: Hi guys, My name is Moriah.

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I am the general manager out here

at Binghamton Jellystone Park.

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So we are in the Jellystone Park

franchise and we are one of the newest

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locations here in upstate New York.

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Brian Searl: Moriah, you can yell

at me if I mispronounce your name.

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Moriah Abbott: It's

okay, I get Moira a lot.

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Brian Searl: Now I know I

won't make that mistake again.

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Nate?

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Nate Thompson: I'm Nate Thompson,

partner at KCN Campgrounds.

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We're building and growing a

portfolio of campgrounds across the U.

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S.

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Joe?

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Joe?

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Joe Duemig: I'm Joe Duemig, I'm the

app, I'm the founder of AppMyCommunity.

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We make mobile apps for

campgrounds and resorts.

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Brian Searl: Scott Knepp.

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Scott Knepp: Hey everyone, I'm

Scott, I'm Director of Operations

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with the IVEE Management Group.

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We're a full service management group

with campgrounds across the country.

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Visit us at ivy.

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com, I V E E.

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I V E,

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Brian Searl: I'm like Greg Emmert.

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Greg Emmert: Yeah, hi everybody, Greg

Emmert from Camp Strategy, a professional

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advisory and consulting group to

the outdoor hospitality industry.

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Brian Searl: Are you in

the safari in Africa?

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Greg Emmert: I'm not.

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No, this is this is a picture from

another, from a previous trip to

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Colombia, but I'm loving all the bird

song I hear in Scott's background.

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So I'm going to keep a bird list.

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I'm going to let everybody know how many

species we've got by the end of the show.

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Brian Searl: He did that.

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Seriously, Scott, by the way and I

want to let Tyler and Ed finish their

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intros in a second, but seriously, I

was in Hawaii and I started texting

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him like random photos of birds.

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And then I threw him off by

throwing him like a chicken picture.

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And he couldn't guess where I was.

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Tyler Watts: That's really interesting.

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But I had Hawaii on the first species

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Greg Emmert: on the Crown Cardinal.

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I was like, you're in freaking Hawaii

or Puerto Rico or something, dude.

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Brian Searl: Oh, yeah.

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Or Puerto Rico.

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Yeah, you didn't get it.

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I found you.

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I was close.

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Tyler!

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Tyler Watts: Hey guys, I'm Tyler Watts.

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I'm with Broad River Campground

out of Mooresboro, North Carolina.

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I'm the developer and co owner of the

campground and we are excited to be here.

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We're in our second full year of operation

and we just brought on 40 more RV sites.

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We're excited for 2024.

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Brian Searl: Awesome, thanks

for being here, to Broad River.

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And Ed from EOB Consulting.

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Ed Bridgman: Hello everyone, this

is Ed Bridgman with EOB Consulting.

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We consult and design RV

destinations and prepare feasibility

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analysis all over the country.

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We did 38 in 2023.

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We also own Homestead RV Community,

the most technologically advanced

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RV destination in the world,

where we beta test other people's

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products in the RV industry.

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and also use it as our showroom.

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We're currently expanding with a

million dollar pool and next year

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we'll be adding 73 more sites.

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Brian Searl: Ed, where are you?

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You look like you're in a secret

evil lair where you mastermind

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Ed Bridgman: everything.

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I'm an electrical engineer with a

master's degree and I enjoy being in a

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cave and so this is actually my private

office and this is our security system

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in the background where we can monitor.

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who is entering and leaving

the Homestead RV community.

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And this is the hub of

where all the brain child

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Brian Searl: happens.

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I tell you if I was going to

hire somebody, I'd want somebody

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to have a layer like that.

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I'm just saying I'm jealous.

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All right.

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So let's sign in.

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I want to give our special

guest some time here.

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We got a little bit we

got a crowded field here.

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Sorry guys, for all this

wonderful people here.

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But I don't book the show anymore.

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It's all Sharah's fault.

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She obviously does way too good of a job

because we have way too many people here.

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Let's talk let's start

with our special guests.

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I want to give them some time.

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Let's go with Tyler first at Broad

River Campground since he's actually

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in a legit background with a van

going and super cool glamping dome.

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Tyler, tell us about Broad

River Campground a little bit.

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Tyler Watts: So Broad River Campground

came to us in about:

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apartment complexes, which is our

background, started skyrocketing.

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And we've never built one.

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I grew up camping.

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My development groups, we all grew

up camping, but we've never built

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one, owned one, operated one.

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But that doesn't scare us away from

things, and so we we got the idea to, to

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look at possibly purchasing or building

one, and the market took us in the

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direction of building one, and we took

82 acres of raw hunting land, had one

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deer stand, and we brought power, water,

sewer, lamping, cabins, clubhouse, pool,

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nature trails, RV sites, and tent sites.

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I packed about three years worth

of information into, 15 seconds,

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but a lot of ups and downs,

but a very successful project.

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And we've been, we hit the ground running

and we we contribute a lot of our success

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to the industry leaders like you guys and

CARVIC and OHI and all the big leaders

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in the game that opened us with welcome

arms and helped us when we had questions.

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So we're super excited

about the campground.

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We just brought on phase two.

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So now we're sitting at a total

of 56 RV sites, 10 cabins, five

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glamping domes, five tent sites.

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We've only done a footprint of

about 30 acres on the 82 acre track

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property, but that's pretty much

what we're going to be at the moment.

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Hopefully, years to come, we'll look

at expanding farther, but yeah, we're

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stoked, we're excited, people are

showing up, people are discovering us,

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so we're extremely happy to be here

and just excited to continue to grow.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Thank you for telling all my

guests they're industry leaders.

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I definitely am not, but

that's what they're here for.

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And I'm curious, I want to

pick out one thing from the

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beginning of what you said first.

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You said the market took you

in the direction of developing

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versus purchasing, right?

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And I think this is valuable insight,

maybe that we haven't even covered

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in depth on this show before.

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And I apologize if I'm lagging,

it looks really weird to me.

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But hopefully it'll be

fine on the podcast.

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And, I'm interested, there's a

lot of people obviously getting

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into this business over the last

few years, both big and small.

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How do you know which

direction the market is taking?

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Tyler Watts: We look at a lot of projects,

we look at a lot of opportunities

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out there in the real estate world.

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And we're unlimited general license

contractors, so we know how to build.

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We just have to find the right project.

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And we were, we had went from

purchasing apartment complexes to

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actually looking at building some.

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Construction materials and

acquisition calls were just.

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Did not make sense.

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So then it's crazy.

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You've got this bright idea.

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We were like, so wait a minute,

we can build an RV site.

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No windows, no plumbing.

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Other than obviously your sewer

connection, but I'm talking

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like toilets and sinks was

like, we've got none of that.

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And people will pay how much a month.

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And we're like, wait a minute,

this sounds too good to be true.

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Cause you know, we're apartment guys.

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We're used to, the the toilets backing

up and, Hey, I've got, I seen one roach.

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I need you to come here and

spend thousands of dollars

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killing this one roach I seen.

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And.

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I need I've got electrical issues.

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And so we looked at all that and said,

wow, our operations and maintenance costs

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will go way down on something like this.

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So it really grabbed our attention.

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And that's what really propelled

us to look into this industry.

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And then it just snowball

effect from there.

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And then we started, we were

like, okay, what about cabins?

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So then, at one point we were like, we're

getting out of the apartment industry,

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but then we, next thing you know,

we brought on 10 more cabins and now

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we've got what we call 15 hotel rooms.

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So not only did we feel like we got in

the RV industry, but We feel like we're

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in the hotel industry as well cause with

our cabins, we don't have to flip them and

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sanitize them and all that, so it's been

a very big learning curve for us, we did

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not, this was not the first vision, but

the vision we ultimately landed on was we

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looked at a lot of parks out there in the

country and we visited a lot of parks and

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we decided, we said, hey, we want to be

able to offer something that the common

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man that wants to spend $30 a night in

tent camp, we want to be able to offer him

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something all the way up to John and Jenny

who don't mind dropping a couple to three

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hundred dollars a night on a nice cabin

and a golf cart and a hot tub and all

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that thing so we developed our park around

that model and that's exactly what we

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did and we didn't want to limit ourselves

on one Sector of RVers, so to speak.

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We wanted to open up to everyone

that's in the camping world

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Brian Searl: guys I know my recurring

guests know this but if you have any

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questions Please point so that I can

talk less and people will be more

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interested in the show but I think you

know Where do you see yourself going?

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Because to me I don't want to say

you're small, but you're small

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compared to another larger, right?

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Corporate sites.

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So I'm sure you have visions

and plans for the future.

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Where would you like to

go in an ideal world?

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Tyler Watts: So we always start small.

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We did that when we were purchasing

apartment complexes and we're

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looking at some other properties and

projects now, we always start small.

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And even when we started small here,

we only brought phase one on with 16 RV

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size, 10 cabins, five domes, no office.

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No clubhouse, no pool, no nothing.

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But we do that strategically

to first off generate revenue

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as quickly as possible, right?

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Time is your enemy when you're

trying to get open, right?

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You're trying to get open

as quickly as possible.

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So we've been to a fully booked park.

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We were very small.

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We've expanded.

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We're still small.

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If it's up to me, if I'm king, I'm, I

want to build a thousand more, right?

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But we've got to make sure Broad

River Campground continues to thrive

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and do as well as we expect it to.

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And then, yeah, we want

to continue to scale.

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Now that we understand the model, we

understand our profit margins and where we

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expect things to mature at, we 100 percent

definitely want to level up and grow.

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And I don't know exactly where that land

is, but if we were to build another one,

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I would imagine it we would be considered

a medium sized park and then possibly

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jump into the large park category.

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It just depends on what the

opportunity is out there.

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If there's some acquisitions available

for some, for medium large parks

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that have significant value add,

we'll definitely look at that and

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we'll come in there and renovate and

rehab and restabilize the property.

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If we don't see those opportunities,

then we start looking for land

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acquisition and then we'll just

do it from ground up construction.

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Brian Searl: And so tell me I'm just

curious and please anybody else can

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ask a question to you instead of me

But when you look at the value add that

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your group brings Everybody seems to

have their own unique either value add

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or proposition I think they're going

to do or in some work and some of them

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don't but what is your difference maker?

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Tyler Watts: Would you say we

do a lot of stuff in house.

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I'm the forefront runner of it So there's

I literally am Talking with a bank one

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day about financing to literally crawling

on top of this particular dome I'm

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sitting in and tightening down bolts.

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That's how we cut a lot

of our overhead costs.

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It's just, I'm boots on the

ground every day, all day.

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And I'm, it's been about a three year full

time gig for me here at the campground.

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We've got some other projects that have

taken a little bit of time, but this one's

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been, this one's been the baby for us.

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And it's just creating that.

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Through, not necessarily having to hire

out to every single contractor in the

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world, taking care of your contractors,

using local contractors we've had, we've

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developed a really good team for example

we used a local contractor here who just

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didn't have the accessibility to rent

equipment from Caterpillar just didn't

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have, he's a smaller guy, and we went and

rented it for him, and we paid for it,

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and he billed us for his billable hours,

and We were able to make that work and

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we saved a tremendous amount of money

versus hiring a large grading company.

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And I was actually a dedicated dump

truck driver for about three weeks.

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I learned how to drive

a pretty big dump truck.

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And it sounds fun and it is fun

for about the first four hours.

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After about 300 hours, I'll tell you

what, I was ready to get out of that

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truck, so I think we hauled about 1,

600 loads of dirt, but it's things

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like that, that my group and myself

are willing to do and get dirty with.

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We're not scared of work, we're willing

to jump in and work the 12 hour days,

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but that's, at the end of the day,

that's what makes this project successful

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because otherwise, you're another million

dollars, building an RV park, right?

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And that changes your whole underwriting

model and your cash flow analysis.

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Joe Duemig: So Brian's tired of asking

questions so is that similar to, did you

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have that expectation coming into this?

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Because I would imagine that your

apartments were not as boots on the

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ground as the campground has been for you.

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How does that differ?

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And then were you already running

that in your head that you were going

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to be driving a dump truck for 300

hours when you guys decided to do

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the campground instead of apartments?

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Tyler Watts: So the apartments

were very much similar to that.

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I've laid floor and I've helped

install kitchen cabinets.

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I've pulled RG6 cable wiring

when we're doing apartments.

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Very much the same.

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Use a very much the same contractors

that we use on our apartments

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we use on the campground.

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I even, we've got some up in Michigan

State and I flew seven guys up there.

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We had 20 apartments to floor.

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And and I'm one of those, I don't ask

people to do things I wouldn't do.

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And we all jumped on a plane and

went up there and laid floor.

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And so very much heavily involved.

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The dump truck was not on schedule,

but that's one of those things

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when you're developing and you're

building something and you're new

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to it, like I was and my group, and

we're still trying to understand it.

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You have to do things.

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That are necessary to keep a

project moving forward, right?

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And it's not always necessarily sticking

a guy in a dump truck for another, 30, 40,

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50 an hour or whatever they may charge.

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Sometimes I gotta be that guy.

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Sometimes I gotta be the trash guy.

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Sometimes I gotta be the guy that

runs the Walmart or Lowe's or Home

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Depot 47, 000 times that week, right?

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That is just what it takes for us to

get projects going and keep it moving.

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:

It's hectic.

347

:

It's very much intense, but when we

were staging the cabins, it was crazy.

348

:

I got some old photos.

349

:

My entire garage, I think Amazon thought

I was literally like about the, they

350

:

were like, this guy's going crazy.

351

:

I had Amazon packages showing up so much.

352

:

I, my whole entire two bay garage

was full of just couches and love

353

:

seats and anything you could think of

that we needed to stage cabins with.

354

:

So it's very much do whatever

it takes to get a job done.

355

:

And that's, and I think that's

a it makes a good story for us.

356

:

And it also, it helps with the

success of the project because.

357

:

Everyone knows cost on everything

have just dramatically skyrocketed

358

:

and anything you can do to save a buck

here and there, that's what we do.

359

:

That is 100 percent what we

do and push forward with.

360

:

Brian Searl: Alright, so Ed,

how are you similar and how are

361

:

you different is my question.

362

:

Here's what, here's how I'm

imagining you're different.

363

:

Most technologically advanced

campground, you said, or RV

364

:

resorts in the world, right?

365

:

So I imagine you're sitting in your

bat cave there, controlling robotic

366

:

arms and doing all the things

that Tyler's doing, but with tech.

367

:

Yeah.

368

:

Ed Bridgman: Actually, I see a lot of

advantage to what Tyler was talking about.

369

:

I grew up on a ranch in Kansas and then

I owned a ranch in Texas for 30 years

370

:

and I noticed that the dirt in Kansas

was dark and healthy and you could grow

371

:

a lot and then we had to use a stick of

dynamite to dig a pothole in Texas and

372

:

so when I came to Alabama I actually went

to work for the gentleman who cleared my

373

:

property, and I drove a dump truck for

three years, got my CDL Class A license,

374

:

and I drove the dump truck so that I would

understand the land in lower Alabama,

375

:

which is completely different than Texas

or Ohio or Kansas, where I was from.

376

:

So I learned how to develop

here and learned how to

377

:

work with the property here.

378

:

That helped me be a better

consultant all over the country.

379

:

Now, I'm traveling to Georgia next week.

380

:

I've got two jobs in Texas.

381

:

Earlier earlier this month,

I just got back from Texas.

382

:

And I just got back from Fort

Myers, Florida the week before that.

383

:

So we're averaging about three a month.

384

:

But they're all over the country.

385

:

And so having that background and hands on

experience to understand the differences

386

:

in how you lay a foundation, whether it's

in, I just got back from Indiana and the

387

:

way they lay foundation in Indiana is

completely different than we do in Texas.

388

:

So understanding the different.

389

:

Soil content around the country

being hands on has proven to be

390

:

a very invaluable experience.

391

:

Brian Searl: So beyond that, what would

you say sets EOB Consulting apart?

392

:

Ed Bridgman: EOB Consulting is set

apart from a lot of other consulting

393

:

companies because we literally physically

travel to each unique site and identify

394

:

which one of the five RV destination

types best will fit that location.

395

:

And then we come back to lower Alabama

and have our CAD in-house CAD engineers.

396

:

We don't just hire some CAD

engineer that we have to retrain

397

:

each time we have on site.

398

:

full time CAD engineers that understand

that we don't design blind sites and

399

:

we have certain unique features that

we designed that we haven't seen in our

400

:

peers but our CAD engineers are aware of

that so that our designs will properly

401

:

function and every site is accessible

and every road is transversable.

402

:

We just had an RV in here last

night who was on his way to a race

403

:

track and he was 84 feet long.

404

:

One RV pulling a trailer, being

pulled by a semi, but we have,

405

:

we see that all the time now.

406

:

We see that very common that a

tractor trailer is pulling the fifth

407

:

wheel, the custom made fifth wheel,

And you've got a custom made fifth

408

:

wheel that's a minimum 52 feet long,

pulling a 30 some foot long trailer.

409

:

And , who are these people?

410

:

Brian Searl: I feel like I'm not

working hard enough to deserve these

411

:

things and these I don't understand.

412

:

What am I doing wrong?

413

:

Maybe I'd need to hire Ed.

414

:

Ed Bridgman: If you hire me, the site

will function correctly and it will be

415

:

a good fit if you build a resort where

you should have built a campground.

416

:

You may still make money, but you won't

maximize the value of your property.

417

:

Brian Searl: Okay, that's fair.

418

:

Anybody have any questions for Ed?

419

:

Tyler Watts: For Ed, he's on

the nail head right there.

420

:

He's very much correct.

421

:

We went into it blind and we

hired a local civil engineer.

422

:

And they did a great job, don't

get me wrong, but our campground

423

:

was a build then design style.

424

:

We literally hand drew it on napkins, we

pulled states, we pulled strings, and we,

425

:

I think we've been successful with it.

426

:

Did we make a few mistakes along the way?

427

:

Of course we did.

428

:

But, Ed very much hit it on the nail head.

429

:

Having a functional campground or resort

is a big deal nowadays, especially with

430

:

you're seasoned and you're building.

431

:

larger style RVs.

432

:

We learned from phase one to phase

two and a lot of it just had to do

433

:

with our septic footprint out here.

434

:

So we were limited, but a lot

of our sites on phase two are

435

:

now around 95 to 100 foot long.

436

:

And on phase one for us,

they're around 65, 70 foot.

437

:

Again, we didn't really have much

wiggle room there just because of

438

:

our septic footprint, but those

things make a huge difference.

439

:

And we're seeing the bookings.

440

:

Of course, right now, everything

on our site that books up

441

:

first is Phase 2, right?

442

:

Because they're bigger, larger, and

we did a little custom sewer hookup.

443

:

It's very much correct.

444

:

It's crucial to have

some knowledge like that.

445

:

Ed Bridgman: And we're still learning.

446

:

Last year, we did 38 designs

all around the country.

447

:

As part of that, we physically

travel to each location, and then

448

:

we spend three days in that location

developing an understanding of the

449

:

local market and making certain that

the local market has a demand for what

450

:

it is that you're trying to supply.

451

:

And each of those times, we

average between 15 and 20 RV

452

:

destinations around that site.

453

:

So if you take 15 times 38, we

conservatively walked on 570 RV

454

:

destinations all around the country.

455

:

Physically, spent time talking to

managers, people who live there,

456

:

guests, and found out the good,

the bad, and the ugly on nearly

457

:

600 different RV sites last year.

458

:

We see a lot of good.

459

:

We see a lot of things that

are like, why did they do that?

460

:

And we incorporate the

good into our next design.

461

:

We are constantly learning this.

462

:

This, it seems so straightforward.

463

:

It seems like something you could

just design and it makes sense.

464

:

And it, and there's a lot of designs

out there that have been designed,

465

:

replicated over and over and over.

466

:

And they're just not functioning with

today's, RV, today's RV is bigger, demands

467

:

more electricity, demands today's RV owner

demands easier access to their sites.

468

:

They didn't grow up on farms, they didn't

grow up backing and so they're having

469

:

more issues than they did 20 years ago.

470

:

The 77 percent of RV destinations

are older than 20 years of age.

471

:

And they were designed

for the RVs at that time.

472

:

The RVs today and the RV owner

today demands a different product.

473

:

Brian Searl: So let's take this and

run with it for a second, right?

474

:

Because I think this is a good

theme that many of our guests here

475

:

can touch on in different ways.

476

:

So I want to come maybe first to Scott

from Ivy because you've dealt with,

477

:

like we're talking about the points

of maybe I start with a design or I

478

:

start with a construction and then

work on the design and there's Maybe

479

:

I take over a park that needs revamped

and needs a different design or,

480

:

construction or all kinds of things.

481

:

I've dealt with both.

482

:

So I want to start with, yeah,

getting expected on that.

483

:

And then I want to go to Nate

who has maybe an announcement

484

:

he wants to share with us.

485

:

But, also just from your perspective,

too, Dane, because you've taken

486

:

over a lot of parks as well.

487

:

Scott Knepp: Yeah, I think this is a

fascinating vein to focus on, and I'm

488

:

this is where my mind was going, too.

489

:

As we listened to Tyler explain, the

situation that he found himself in,

490

:

and The joys and the challenges of

developing a property, I found that

491

:

really interesting because I think most

often we are working with owners that

492

:

are in an acquisition for a property

that's been developed and to Ed's

493

:

very well put point, parks are very

different now and depending on the age

494

:

of the park there may be a great deal

of work ahead in an acquisition and

495

:

there might be a great deal of unknowns.

496

:

There's one thing that I would really

caution new owners or anyone looking to

497

:

get into the space with is take advantage

of your due diligence period and really

498

:

spend a lot of time looking underground

and all the intangibles of the property

499

:

because it's really easy to think you're

going to acquire a property and you have

500

:

these funds for all the ways that you want

to improve it and then all those funds

501

:

go towards something that is intangible

to the guest experience and what a shame.

502

:

What a shame.

503

:

And it's interesting to hear the

people that have taken on developing.

504

:

I think that's really exciting.

505

:

It's really exciting to manage for anyone.

506

:

But when you manage for an owner that has

a really clear vision and has developed to

507

:

that vision, what an amazing opportunity.

508

:

Tyler, that is so cool that you

had the opportunity to sit around

509

:

and take your experience and design

something that was going to match that.

510

:

And it's so neat to me that you're in

that perspective now that you can watch

511

:

how the guest experience unfolds and you

can make modifications to your property.

512

:

Because you know it that and because

you set that foundation, right?

513

:

I don't want to interrupt you Scott,

514

:

Brian Searl: I just want to point out

that Tyler was never sitting around.

515

:

He was probably designing it on

top of the glamping tent or while

516

:

he was writing Home Depot or

517

:

Tyler Watts: We literally

designed as we went.

518

:

We made a million changes.

519

:

Like you come out here and you look

and you say, Oh look, that cabin looks

520

:

like they just poured it in there.

521

:

Man, we took every tree

into consideration.

522

:

We took in the septic footprint.

523

:

We took in the electrical grid.

524

:

Like it was very much so and

Nothing against the engineer,

525

:

he took an AutoCAD file and he

blasted, like 35 sites on phase one.

526

:

We chewed that down to 16.

527

:

Why?

528

:

Because we didn't want to be

a cookie cutter campground.

529

:

We didn't want to be on top of each other.

530

:

We wanted to give them

some breathing room.

531

:

So there's a they're very much

with a big learning curve for us.

532

:

And I think we made a

couple of right decisions.

533

:

Obviously, we probably

made some wrong decisions.

534

:

I'll figure out.

535

:

But we, it was an ever

changing model, day to day.

536

:

So just, It wasn't a scratch it on a

napkin and hey, this is what we're going

537

:

to do it was, oh wait, this didn't work,

so let's change this, let's change that,

538

:

and it was a constant moving target.

539

:

Scott Knepp: And it probably

will always evolve, right?

540

:

I think that's super neat.

541

:

And I think that also when you watch an

acquisition unfold, and you might've gone

542

:

through this Tyler too, just as you were

developed, as you were obtaining the land,

543

:

but so often in the acquisition process,

the challenges is on the owner, the

544

:

buyer, and the seller coming to the land.

545

:

To the common ground around the table

and so much of the attention goes

546

:

towards those negotiations that you

don't get to focus on the land as much.

547

:

So it's neat to hear Tyler

talk about like his experience,

548

:

getting to focus on the land.

549

:

I also think it's worthwhile

pointing out that Tyler did

550

:

the wifi right at his property.

551

:

The fact that he's doing a podcast

room call with this much data going

552

:

through inside one of his yurts.

553

:

Congratulations to you, man.

554

:

Tyler Watts: That was

almost the death of me.

555

:

Of the entire campground, that was the

hardest thing for us to accomplish.

556

:

I will not lie.

557

:

It took months and months.

558

:

And I might have cussed out

like four people AT& T, but

559

:

I love them to death, right?

560

:

I had to do what I had to do, but

we have fiber optic ramp through

561

:

the whole park and it is amazing.

562

:

And that was another thing we

wanted to do to be different.

563

:

But boy, I'll tell you what,

everyone says they want to unplug.

564

:

You let an antenna go down here at the

campground, the phone starts ringing, man.

565

:

Scott Knepp: It is hilarious.

566

:

I figured you either had a lot of

guts or you had a nearby access point.

567

:

Brian Searl: All right, Nate, you're up.

568

:

Nate Thompson: As we've grown

the portfolio, we've really

569

:

focused on acquiring properties

as opposed to ground up builds.

570

:

So hats off to Tyler for that's

a bold move to start in the

571

:

industry and do it, from scratch.

572

:

That's a huge deal.

573

:

We have a park in Kansas that was,

it's a great example of a park that

574

:

kind of doesn't fit today's current

RVs, and it was built in:

575

:

So if you think about vehicles

then versus vehicles now, it's a

576

:

huge leap for a lot of the vehicles

to be able to use that park.

577

:

As we're doing our portfolio growth,

we're looking for opportunities to expand

578

:

both the amenities of the current park

and the current sites, but we're also

579

:

looking for opportunities where we can

grow the footprint of the park itself.

580

:

So in the Canada ca or in the in the

Kansas case, we did an expansion that

581

:

just is going live this year and we added

about 35 sites in the back of the park.

582

:

All of those are much larger.

583

:

We've got a couple

hundred foot plus sites.

584

:

So that's part of the, kind of the

strategy that we use as we go through

585

:

each of the different parks that.

586

:

Evaluating for purchase and whatnot

and having that kind of multi phase

587

:

approach where we can improve the

current park, but also look at how do

588

:

we expand the size of the park overall

with those more modern amenities and.

589

:

And site types and whatnot.

590

:

And the announcement, so Brian touched

on this, I appreciate that On Friday

591

:

we closed on our seventh park, seventh

acquisition which is a Gettysburg pa, KOA.

592

:

We're super excited about that.

593

:

And similar to what I was just saying,

it's got a lot of work we can do on

594

:

the footprint of the park itself.

595

:

We also acquired an additional 10 acres.

596

:

Adjacent to the park that will be

future growth for us as we look to

597

:

grow our footprint in that market.

598

:

So yeah, it's a very exciting

day for us on Friday.

599

:

Congratulations.

600

:

Brian Searl: Yeah, It's a great park.

601

:

I've been, I don't know if I

told you this, but I've been

602

:

there years ago because we worked

with L'Rell for a long time.

603

:

Yeah, she's great.

604

:

And I think I was telling your amazing

new marketing person, too, earlier

605

:

yesterday on the phone about how

we we had been there and it's not

606

:

it's not the flat that you expect

from the the battlefield, right?

607

:

It's a little bit further away from

the battlefield, but it's nestled so

608

:

perfectly in that hill area with all

the hiking trails and stuff like that.

609

:

It's just an absolutely stunning property.

610

:

Nate Thompson: Yeah, the topology of

that park is going to be interesting

611

:

as we start to grow the footprint.

612

:

Rather than something that's going to be

very kind of level and easy to develop.

613

:

It's going to be a little bit more

challenging, but that provides some

614

:

really interesting opportunities as

far as the different site types and

615

:

the views that we can capture and

whatnot as we start to build that out.

616

:

So that's a multi year project

as really all of these parks are.

617

:

So we're excited to get going on that now

that we've got it under the KCN umbrella.

618

:

Brian Searl: And maybe that takes us

further into our conversation, right?

619

:

So we've talked about how we design some

of these properties, like Ed, for example.

620

:

He's got a blueprint, right?

621

:

A lot of the consulting groups

do, but we're talking to Ed today.

622

:

So Ed's got this blueprint that sets him

apart and he goes boots on the ground

623

:

and figures out all those intangibles and

the things that that make him different.

624

:

So how do you tackle that from a

perspective of maybe I know what to do.

625

:

But I can't necessarily do it

exactly the way I want because of

626

:

the topography like Gettysburg.

627

:

Nate Thompson: In the case of

Gettysburg we've worked very closely

628

:

that's a KOA branded property, all

of our properties thus far are.

629

:

And KOA has a internal

campground design services team.

630

:

So we work very closely with them and

the experience we've got with the other

631

:

parks where we've done expansions to model

that, but we do that during the diligence

632

:

phase while we're evaluating the park.

633

:

So we've got a pretty good sense

of what it is, what the capacity

634

:

is for us to do that before we

close on that particular property.

635

:

There's a lot of legwork that goes

into that 60 to 90 day period before

636

:

you actually own the property.

637

:

That's a big part of it when

we're looking at a property

638

:

that's got expansion capacity.

639

:

Really try straw man out where you

can do it, how you can do it, walk

640

:

the property, be there consistently.

641

:

I think that's something

that Ed touched on as well.

642

:

You cannot replicate that

through as great as technology

643

:

is, you can't replicate that.

644

:

You got to be there, you got to walk the

property, you got to see how it feels,

645

:

you got to see the views yourself and

start to conceptualize where you think

646

:

you can make some of those things happen.

647

:

And.

648

:

Yeah, there's a little bit of a leap

of faith because ultimately it is, a

649

:

vision that you've got and it's not a

completed plan, but we're pretty excited

650

:

about where Gettysburg is going to go.

651

:

Brian Searl: Awesome.

652

:

I want to make sure we

get to, is it Moriah?

653

:

Did I pronounce it right that time?

654

:

So I want to go to Moriah and hear about

Binghamton Jellystone Park, and then I

655

:

want to touch on maybe just continuing

this conversation, but from a different

656

:

perspective, maybe from Candace and Joe's.

657

:

perspective of how the design and

everything that you lay the foundation

658

:

for in the beginning leads to success

both through mobile apps, community

659

:

engagement, and then through online

reservations and things like that.

660

:

Moriah, please tell us your story.

661

:

Moriah Abbott: Yeah so actually it's

been so interesting hearing everybody

662

:

talk today because I just keep pulling

like bits and pieces out of you guys

663

:

stories and just think oh my gosh, that

applies so much to what we've done here.

664

:

My owners purchased this campground in

December of:

665

:

season going in and, we have been fly

by the seat of our pants they started

666

:

in the rental industry as well, so

very similar to Tyler, and, it's just

667

:

been a process the campground that

we purchased is was built in the 60s.

668

:

And so we've had a lot of those

growing pains of where, these rigs

669

:

come in and they are a lot bigger,

than the sites that have been designed.

670

:

And, so we've been working to

accommodate those and just figure out

671

:

what it is that our consumer needs.

672

:

And one of the coolest things or the

thing that I think we do really great

673

:

we try and be wow moment creators for

people and memory makers for families.

674

:

So That's our big myth.

675

:

And we've really built this

park around that specific model.

676

:

Even though we take it from a, design

aspect of, hey, this is the size rig we

677

:

have coming in for these families, we also

take it in, okay, if you have a group, a

678

:

family that has four kids and they want

to do all of the fun stuff now you have to

679

:

make sure those sites that they're going

to be on, those cabins that they're going

680

:

to be on, Is it relational in your park to

what the average family wants to be doing?

681

:

And so we've taken a lot of that into

consideration and really just built

682

:

everything centered around our desk

and kind of built it out from there.

683

:

So we have a lot of different

glamping experiences.

684

:

We have glamping tents, we have

different yurts, a couple different

685

:

types of cabins and we do RV rentals

as well for those who want more of

686

:

a traditional camping experience.

687

:

And then we also have, standard kind

of cut and dry RV sites and tent sites

688

:

we've been expanding as we go and,

similar to as what's been talked about,

689

:

you can have a plan but that plan for

us changes on a daily basis almost, I

690

:

check in with everybody on my crew and,

we update things as they come in and,

691

:

I know it's been talked about where

you really walk the park and get a

692

:

feel for it, and the same is true here.

693

:

We have a 6 acre lake in the center

of our property, but we are also in

694

:

upstate New York, so it is very hilly.

695

:

And so it's great to say, oh, we

have 66 acres but then when you

696

:

do look at how that ground is laid

out, then you have to start making

697

:

decisions are we actually going to be

able to get a level RV site in here?

698

:

Or is this where we start thinking

outside the box with glamping action?

699

:

Brian Searl: So as we look at, again, this

ties back into our whole theme, right?

700

:

As we look at how,

cause you're new, right?

701

:

You just said you were, okay.

702

:

So as part of that design process, right?

703

:

You're talking about the construction

and the overall design that people

704

:

think about landscaping and sites

and size and stuff like that.

705

:

But part of that, I think is the

decision, Nate is big on KOA.

706

:

You are obviously.

707

:

Jellystone.

708

:

So that's, to me, that's part of that

process is do I rely on a great team

709

:

from KOA or a great team from Jellystone?

710

:

Do I need an Ed and a Greg

and a Jellystone and a KOA?

711

:

Am I just going to do

everything myself like Tyler?

712

:

What, right?

713

:

There's all kinds of different

paths that you can take.

714

:

But how do you end up

going with a Jellystone?

715

:

Moriah Abbott: Yeah, absolutely.

716

:

We really locked in on Jellystone for

the whole aspect of their consumer.

717

:

So our guest is who we wanted

this campground to be about.

718

:

So Jellystone is all about those

young families that come in and

719

:

they just want to have a great

time together, really that.

720

:

big family bonding experience.

721

:

So we really locked in on that model

and have taken their advice and

722

:

their help and just ran with it.

723

:

It's crazy because we do have

all of that input from them.

724

:

Jellystone is a phenomenal team.

725

:

I don't know if you worked with them

before, but they are fantastic and all

726

:

of their advice and just anything, any

type of support they give is wonderful.

727

:

But then we also.

728

:

Like Tyler, we have that kind of

background of construction ourselves.

729

:

So we really do put a lot

of our own, process into it.

730

:

So we look for advice, but then we also

end up doing a majority of the design work

731

:

and stuff on our own with a little bit

of the consulting aspect from Jellystone.

732

:

Brian Searl: And is that a market

driven approach, or is that a, I want

733

:

to be a park that caters more toward

younger families approach, or a blend?

734

:

Moriah Abbott: Ah, I

definitely think it's a blend.

735

:

We looked at the market that

we have here around Binghamton.

736

:

Now the campground that we had from

the 60s it definitely didn't have,

737

:

exactly the market we were going for.

738

:

But what we found was the market

in Binghamton surrounding was

739

:

that, central young family.

740

:

that is now driving to our park.

741

:

So we have, everyone from the Syracuse

area as well as down through Pennsylvania.

742

:

They've started to find us and, we've

really become this like central,

743

:

fun, family oriented campground.

744

:

Brian Searl: Where does

anything go from here?

745

:

Moriah Abbott: Oh man, yeah, we are

definitely starting strong and I

746

:

think we're just getting stronger.

747

:

So currently we are, I don't know if

I can even call them phases, we just

748

:

do, every single year I would say would

be a new phase, currently, I actually

749

:

just put online, we have 8 new VIP

sites that we're putting in, so those

750

:

are gonna be some pretty long concrete

sites with private concrete patios.

751

:

Those are gonna be close to our

attractions and activities, like our

752

:

jumping pillows and mini golf course.

753

:

I know we have a pool slated out for

the future that was One thing that our

754

:

campground was lacking from the 60s,

so we are working on putting that in.

755

:

We have tons of fun lake activities

and things like that, but the pool is

756

:

definitely one of the top things on our

list, so we are excited in that regard.

757

:

And then we already have a whole new

section planned out where we should in

758

:

the next coming years be able to put in,

oh man, a whole nother block of cabins.

759

:

Over the next few years we

have, I'm trying to think of

760

:

how many acres that slot is.

761

:

It's probably anywhere upwards

of 10, or 20, 10 to 20 new

762

:

cabins in our newest section.

763

:

Lots of expansion going on and both in

the site development world as well as

764

:

the attractions and activities world.

765

:

And we are just really excited for

the future and bringing these families

766

:

in and helping create, lasting

fun vacation memories for them.

767

:

Brian Searl: Something you said really

piqued my interest a little bit, and

768

:

I'd love to see if the group wants to

weigh in on it, and then I promise I'll

769

:

get to you, Candace, Joe, and Greg, too.

770

:

You can feel free to just pipe in, and

I know you've got a wealth of knowledge

771

:

there, so we'll get to you, I promise.

772

:

When we're talking about the VIP sites

that you were adding specifically, and

773

:

Ed had mentioned all the people who

are pulling trailers, behind pulling

774

:

their fifth wheels with trailers,

when you're designing and developing

775

:

a park, Either from the ground up

or redoing it or whatever, all the

776

:

things that we've talked about here.

777

:

How do you determine the market for that?

778

:

Is it similar to hotels decide

I need 10 suites and 90 rooms or

779

:

like how do you determine that?

780

:

Moriah Abbott: Yeah, so I know

for our park in particular,

781

:

we've really taken into account

the people who come currently.

782

:

And the things that they tell us, the

needs that they have you know, so when

783

:

I have people who come in and, they're

parked on one of our sites and it's one of

784

:

the older sites, so it's a little smaller,

and they're telling me, hey, it would

785

:

be really great if this site was angled.

786

:

Again our sites were built in the

60s and they're parallel to the road.

787

:

We really had to go in and

adjust things as we go.

788

:

So we've created, 45 degree

envelopes onto all of our sites

789

:

and things like that, to help.

790

:

help what we have now, but then as

we talk to them, we realize, hey,

791

:

campers and trailers, fifth wheels,

they're all just getting bigger.

792

:

Nothing is getting smaller.

793

:

It was already hit on the electrical draw.

794

:

Even the sewer draw, everybody

wants to take a shower every day.

795

:

Everybody wants to, live that kind of

household lifestyle, but on the go.

796

:

And so you really take

in that consumer need.

797

:

And just work that into what you can.

798

:

At our park, we take all of those

things into consideration and then

799

:

we lay it out the best way we can.

800

:

The section that we have now,

they're about 85 feet long so not

801

:

as long as some of the ones, that

I've heard talked about today.

802

:

But, definitely long enough to

get some of those Class A's, even,

803

:

some of those bigger ones in there.

804

:

And just really working with

what we have, but also listening

805

:

to those needs of our guests.

806

:

Brian Searl: I think I'm specifically,

just opening up to everybody briefly,

807

:

I think I'm specifically interested

in the VIP versus non VIP, right?

808

:

How do you determine the market can

sustain a 125 a night, beautiful patio,

809

:

swing set, maybe a hot tub, fence for

your dog versus the, I don't know, I

810

:

want to call them standard sites, right?

811

:

But you understand what I mean.

812

:

So is there a way that the

market can determine that if

813

:

you don't know that going in?

814

:

To anybody who wants the answer.

815

:

Ed Bridgman: Like I said, we spent

three days in the area, and we not only

816

:

talked to current guests of other RV

destinations, but we also talked to the

817

:

civil, the civic leaders in the area.

818

:

Are they bringing in a

Walmart distribution center?

819

:

Are they bringing in an

Amazon distribution center?

820

:

What is happening in the area?

821

:

I just recently finished

a 512 acre project.

822

:

destination for Polk County,

Georgia, and they had this

823

:

acreage setting over to the side.

824

:

They wanted to have an alternative low

income housing place, so we designed

825

:

it in sections like communities.

826

:

So that people could feel people

could feel like they were in

827

:

a community in this own block.

828

:

And what the Polk County is doing is if

you have an RV that qualifies, first of

829

:

all, and you make less than a certain

amount of money, they're going to allow

830

:

them to live in this RV destination.

831

:

It serves two purposes for them.

832

:

It gets all of the Lower income

people in one area instead of

833

:

scattered around the city, and

and they found that advantageous.

834

:

But like I mentioned, I

think I got off track.

835

:

We spend three days in the area, but

we do a lot more than just simply

836

:

talking to the RV destinations so

that we understand the local market.

837

:

And know that the local market

has a demand for what it is

838

:

that we're trying to supply.

839

:

Makes sense.

840

:

Anybody have anything to add?

841

:

Yeah, I think

842

:

Nate Thompson: one of the things

I love about being part of the KOA

843

:

franchise system is the importance,

the focus they put on data.

844

:

As we're designing and looking at

ways we can expand the current park

845

:

or expand the park with new sites.

846

:

We can dig into the data, not just for

that part to see occupancy levels and

847

:

average rates per night and whatnot

which is obviously important if you're

848

:

designing like for but as we start

to broaden out into new site types

849

:

or new accommodations or whatnot.

850

:

We've got the ability to look

regionally or nationally at all of

851

:

these different site types, occupancy

levels by time, occupancy levels across

852

:

different pricing levels and whatnot.

853

:

So that, that's been a huge goal and

a win for us is having access to that

854

:

type of market data to, to inform what

we're proceeding with and how we're

855

:

designing some of these expansions.

856

:

And

857

:

Greg Emmert: I think every if I could

chime in for a second, I think every

858

:

owner has that At their disposal.

859

:

If you're really new, maybe not as much,

but if you've got a park and you've

860

:

been operating it, Boy, the best way

to figure out a feasibility study on

861

:

if you need some VIP, or red carpet,

or patio sites, whatever you want to

862

:

call them start asking your people.

863

:

Start surveying your customers.

864

:

Start watching what's coming

in, what's going out, what the

865

:

attitude is of the customer.

866

:

Hey, would you pay 125 a night?

867

:

Heck no, I wouldn't,

or heck yeah, I would.

868

:

It's, you have that data, you have

that person right in front of you, you

869

:

can't miss that opportunity which is

something sadly that I think especially

870

:

when you're mired down in it, right?

871

:

If you're an everyday, like Tyler, you

were describing a little bit, and I

872

:

know I was when we still owned our park.

873

:

Sometimes you get mired down in the day

to day, and you forget to just go out and

874

:

have conversations, and it's so important.

875

:

If you have someone right in front

of you, an email survey can do it,

876

:

but if you've got somebody right

in front of you and you can spend

877

:

five minutes, create a touchpoint.

878

:

First of all, you're giving

them the warm and fuzzies.

879

:

They're going to want to come

back and see you again because

880

:

now their opinion matters.

881

:

And secondly, you've got, it's the

best data you can possibly get.

882

:

They're right there on your property.

883

:

You might as well, take a few

minutes and just check in with them.

884

:

Tyler Watts: And look at the

reviews, look at the reviews of

885

:

other campgrounds and even your own.

886

:

People will leave honest reviews and

you can say, Hey, this site's here, this

887

:

campground, these sites are unleveled.

888

:

Okay, then that's a concern.

889

:

You need to make sure your sites are

level, shortness, stuff like that.

890

:

And honestly, we went around

and just toured a lot of parks.

891

:

And said, Hey, we're thinking

about building a campground.

892

:

I know we're crazy.

893

:

Can you tell me what to do right?

894

:

And more importantly,

what did you do wrong?

895

:

What did you do wrong?

896

:

And then we have a lot of people,

obviously, since we won park of the

897

:

year, we put us on the map a little bit.

898

:

We have a lot of people ask us

now and they're coming to us.

899

:

I'm like, dude, I'm not an expert,

but I'll tell you what we did.

900

:

And and so it's people

won't be in this industry.

901

:

It's great.

902

:

Cause it's not like the apartment

industry where it's more cutthroat.

903

:

You don't tell all your

underwriting secrets.

904

:

This one here people open up with

him like, Hey, this is what I did.

905

:

And it seems to work for

906

:

Scott Knepp: it.

907

:

And that's one of the things I love

so much about this industry is like

908

:

the, this is such a vocal community

that we're with, nobody walks into a

909

:

restaurant and says, chef, you should

maybe think about adding a few entrees.

910

:

Cause there's some things I really, but

in a campground that'll happen, right?

911

:

The people will tell you it's,

It is a participatory experience.

912

:

One of the things I love

that Greg said, just ask.

913

:

Just ask your employees hey, do you

think that people take advantage of this?

914

:

You can ask your employees,

ask your guests, but there's

915

:

also data does speak, right?

916

:

And it's one thing to come back to

an owner and be like, Yeah, we're

917

:

being told that we can do it, like

people say they want that, but you

918

:

can also quantify it with a tool

that Joe has with at my community.

919

:

You can do surveys and you can push

out communication to your guests

920

:

and have them answer a survey.

921

:

It, in, when they're, when your

employees are asking your guests,

922

:

would you be interested in something

at this price point or something

923

:

that offers these amenities, just yes

70 percent of the people said, Yes.

924

:

And you put a number to

it and that changes any

925

:

conversation that you're having.

926

:

So there's some cool stuff and then also

with the comp set, I think I love that

927

:

with reaching out to your competitors,

having those conversations and like

928

:

Airbnb, even just logging on and seeing

what are my Airbnb competitions doing?

929

:

Like where are they, how,

what's their price point?

930

:

How high end are they?

931

:

So there's a lot of data out there.

932

:

Brian Searl: That's a good

segue to Joe, I think.

933

:

So Joe,

934

:

Joe Duemig: You have a question, Brian?

935

:

Brian Searl: I set you up 25 minutes ago.

936

:

I wrote down my entertainment.

937

:

How does this lead to the point where,

at my community, and then Candace

938

:

from Staylist, how does that lead

to the point where, or does all that

939

:

impact how successful your engagement

apps are and things like that, the

940

:

reservation system, the bookings, the

things that come after the design?

941

:

Joe Duemig: So for us, it

definitely impacts it, right?

942

:

The better the design, the more you're

offering your camper, the better our

943

:

product is actually going to work for you.

944

:

The more engagement, the more stuff that

you want to get back and forth from your

945

:

camper, that, that's that's what we do.

946

:

I think.

947

:

Most of this podcast has

been about development.

948

:

So I had other thoughts.

949

:

I was thinking about other things

around development rather than apps.

950

:

We have been used actually at Ed's

property during his construction

951

:

process was using the app to actually

aim more excitement and excitement.

952

:

I wrapped around the property, sending out

information about what they're doing now.

953

:

Sending out a push notification to show

them the video of all the trucks coming in

954

:

and excavating or pouring dirt, depending

on where we're talking about, right?

955

:

And wrapped around

development, that's there.

956

:

My biggest thought that I was

thinking about this whole time,

957

:

though, had nothing to do with apps.

958

:

It was more wrapped around, what

mistake do I see people making?

959

:

And that is, they buy a piece of

property, maybe that is an existing

960

:

campground that's all seasonal or all

transient, and think, you know what, I'm

961

:

going to grow this into a destination.

962

:

And they've done that without thinking

about, does this area support that?

963

:

Are there things in the area that can

make that this transient stopover right

964

:

on the highway, into a long term or more

of a different type of property, right?

965

:

I think we've seen a lot of campgrounds

go and purchase that property or think

966

:

they're building that property without

studying that side of it as well, is

967

:

what can this area actually support?

968

:

Because they think, oh man, I live

in Missouri, rural Missouri, and I

969

:

think, man, I'm surprised there's

no large campgrounds near us.

970

:

There's probably a reason for it.

971

:

Maybe there should be, maybe

I'm missing I agree with them.

972

:

If I go and build it, it might work,

or I may not have done the studying

973

:

that I need to do to build that type of

property that I think should be there.

974

:

All right that was way better than my

question, yeah, I was gonna say, you're

975

:

trying to team me up, but I had, I was.

976

:

Brian Searl: Feel free to hold on

to something here, Candice, and

977

:

just say whatever you want to say.

978

:

Candice McNamara: I was about to say,

because I was in the same boat as

979

:

you, Joe, I was sitting there, I was

like, I have so many other questions.

980

:

I can tell you from a reservation

software, finding the right platform.

981

:

The thing that really stood out to

me that I've been hearing across the

982

:

board is that it is a multifaceted

kind of industry, whether you're

983

:

building, whether you're buying.

984

:

Whether you're with Jellystone, whether

you're with KOA and ways to innovate

985

:

around that and ways to really bring

people to, to see what you built, right?

986

:

And what you created.

987

:

We do wait listing.

988

:

So same thing as Joe was saying is

you're pushing those notifications,

989

:

you're showing the dump trucks, but

then you have a website up with Brian.

990

:

And then you can also have a wait

list on there where people are

991

:

already preemptively planning and

they're excited about that build out.

992

:

But no, I was on the

same boat as you, Joe.

993

:

The biggest thing that really stood out

to me that I want to know, because I

994

:

think in this specific podcast, people are

going to seek this, that are investing,

995

:

that are buying, that are building.

996

:

And I want to know from all

the different groups, like

997

:

what was your biggest learning?

998

:

If you were to have a good takeaway

to say, this is the number one

999

:

thing that I learned, what would you

leave this audience with to know?

:

00:51:49,074 --> 00:51:49,384

Anybody?

:

00:51:51,104 --> 00:51:53,424

Ed Bridgman: Five different

RV destination types.

:

00:51:53,474 --> 00:51:57,164

And there's a lot of people that

haven't even wrapped their head around

:

00:51:57,164 --> 00:52:01,984

the fact That there are parks, and

parks are the only RV destination

:

00:52:02,014 --> 00:52:03,794

type that are currently losing money.

:

00:52:04,114 --> 00:52:09,424

You do not want to be investing in

RV parks, but there are campgrounds,

:

00:52:09,764 --> 00:52:14,774

and there are resorts, and there

are communities, and there are

:

00:52:14,774 --> 00:52:20,044

hybrids, and so you want to be

investing in one of the other four.

:

00:52:20,524 --> 00:52:25,494

And like I mentioned before, if you

build a resort where you should have

:

00:52:25,504 --> 00:52:30,154

built a campground, you're, I'm not

saying you won't make money, I'm

:

00:52:30,154 --> 00:52:32,344

saying you won't make as much money.

:

00:52:32,344 --> 00:52:34,914

You won't maximize the

value of that property.

:

00:52:35,314 --> 00:52:40,764

So the first thing to do is understand

the local market and make certain

:

00:52:40,774 --> 00:52:46,124

that you build the right fit for the

right For your particular property.

:

00:52:48,664 --> 00:52:49,774

Nate Thompson: Yeah, I think that's right.

:

00:52:49,804 --> 00:52:53,514

Don't try to turn an existing

property into something it's not.

:

00:52:53,564 --> 00:52:57,164

And then secondarily Scott touched on

this earlier, I think do your homework.

:

00:52:57,444 --> 00:53:00,364

Look at all of the, all the

bits and pieces because there's

:

00:53:00,364 --> 00:53:01,554

lots of gotchas out there.

:

00:53:01,984 --> 00:53:05,284

And don't be afraid to walk away

from a project if you see red flags.

:

00:53:07,664 --> 00:53:10,194

Tyler Watts: Our biggest learning curve,

obviously we're on septic out here,

:

00:53:10,194 --> 00:53:12,174

which presented a lot of challenges.

:

00:53:12,174 --> 00:53:15,374

You literally design your site

around your septic footprint.

:

00:53:16,044 --> 00:53:20,474

We learned on phase one that

the code says 120 gallons a day.

:

00:53:20,904 --> 00:53:23,914

Unbeknownst to us, we

followed the code, right?

:

00:53:23,934 --> 00:53:25,904

So our septic footprint is massive.

:

00:53:26,584 --> 00:53:30,294

Networked with a local campground

at a, at the Carvick, Carolina's the

:

00:53:30,294 --> 00:53:32,264

Carolina's Arvick Car Conference.

:

00:53:32,714 --> 00:53:37,444

Come to find out, 60 gallons per day.

:

00:53:37,704 --> 00:53:40,994

We literally saved over

100, 000 on phase two.

:

00:53:41,379 --> 00:53:44,869

My footprint is smaller and

I've got 40 sites versus 16.

:

00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:46,549

Just little things like that.

:

00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:47,569

So I called my engineer up.

:

00:53:47,569 --> 00:53:50,579

I'm like, dude, we made a mistake.

:

00:53:50,879 --> 00:53:51,799

He's Oh yeah, I knew about it.

:

00:53:51,849 --> 00:53:55,969

I'm like, dude, you got to

tell me this kind of stuff.

:

00:53:56,229 --> 00:53:57,389

You're not spending your money.

:

00:53:57,439 --> 00:53:57,959

I am.

:

00:53:58,299 --> 00:53:59,879

You have to have a heart to

heart with people like that.

:

00:53:59,879 --> 00:54:00,709

Lesson learned, right?

:

00:54:00,709 --> 00:54:02,209

So now, I feel obligated.

:

00:54:02,409 --> 00:54:05,979

Let me preach that out to the new

investor, the new developer, like this,

:

00:54:06,449 --> 00:54:09,369

things like this, it would have been very

nice to know that from day one, right?

:

00:54:09,619 --> 00:54:12,109

We were able to muscle through it and

make it work, still be successful.

:

00:54:12,509 --> 00:54:15,009

But, it was a very valuable

financial lesson to learn.

:

00:54:16,149 --> 00:54:18,019

Ed Bridgman: Local civil engineers.

:

00:54:18,609 --> 00:54:25,889

will build to code and if they say,

yes, I've designed an RV destination.

:

00:54:26,099 --> 00:54:30,659

I've been in business for 20 years

and I designed one 10 years ago.

:

00:54:31,609 --> 00:54:34,799

I'm not saying that you shouldn't

use your local civil engineers.

:

00:54:34,809 --> 00:54:37,499

As a matter of fact, there is a

time and place to where you're going

:

00:54:37,519 --> 00:54:41,169

to want to use your local civil

engineer to get your permits through.

:

00:54:41,619 --> 00:54:48,494

But that is As opposed to someone

who has built 38 in a year, the

:

00:54:48,504 --> 00:54:49,884

learning curve is completely

:

00:54:49,884 --> 00:54:50,284

Tyler Watts: different.

:

00:54:50,424 --> 00:54:50,864

I'd agree.

:

00:54:50,904 --> 00:54:51,484

100%.

:

00:54:51,494 --> 00:54:54,804

We finally wound up, I was like,

alright, Scott, I'm going to draw it

:

00:54:54,804 --> 00:54:57,014

on a napkin, you put it in AutoCAD.

:

00:54:57,134 --> 00:54:58,754

And then, so that's where we got at.

:

00:54:58,754 --> 00:55:00,224

And so yeah, very much

of a learning curve.

:

00:55:00,224 --> 00:55:02,669

So yeah, I would highly recommend

if there's Ed's got a world of

:

00:55:02,669 --> 00:55:06,070

knowledge, obviously, and utilizing

that is well worth it, and it's the

:

00:55:06,070 --> 00:55:09,510

same goes for if you're doing septic

for your soil scientist you need to

:

00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,090

get your property tested, and not

just by the local county officials.

:

00:55:13,330 --> 00:55:15,780

Hire a soil scientist to

determine where you're going.

:

00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:20,120

It is not cheap up front, but it will save

you hundreds of thousands of dollars, and

:

00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:24,960

they can maneuver around the rules in a

legal way to help you maximize your park.

:

00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,770

We're a county official, it's

black and white and that's it.

:

00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,720

Moriah Abbott: I think my takeaway

is find what is your thing

:

00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,520

and do it as well as you can.

:

00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:38,110

Do it better than anyone else.

:

00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,790

So that's really what we

honed in on at our park.

:

00:55:40,850 --> 00:55:45,380

We know we're wow moment creators, memory

makers and that's what we strive for.

:

00:55:45,380 --> 00:55:47,550

So even when it comes

to building the park.

:

00:55:47,905 --> 00:55:49,305

That's what we build around.

:

00:55:49,665 --> 00:55:53,875

There's obviously logistics that go

into everything, but find the thing that

:

00:55:53,875 --> 00:55:56,245

you do and do it better than anyone.

:

00:55:58,525 --> 00:55:59,145

Greg Emmert: Spot on.

:

00:55:59,295 --> 00:56:03,505

Moriah, that's, so you, this is awesome

that it comes back around to, because

:

00:56:03,505 --> 00:56:05,315

I've been thinking this the entire time.

:

00:56:05,585 --> 00:56:08,505

Everyone is talking about all

these really important parts,

:

00:56:08,515 --> 00:56:10,185

the layout, the due diligence.

:

00:56:10,565 --> 00:56:13,715

Just trying to find where all the

bodies are, building your vision.

:

00:56:13,775 --> 00:56:17,165

And we've got a juggernaut like

in acquisitions like Nate with

:

00:56:17,185 --> 00:56:20,545

KCN and somebody like Tyler

who is built from scratch.

:

00:56:21,135 --> 00:56:24,287

And all of this all comes

together with your vision, right?

:

00:56:24,287 --> 00:56:24,459

Yeah.

:

00:56:24,770 --> 00:56:26,160

But what do you need your vision to do?

:

00:56:26,190 --> 00:56:29,450

You need your vision to tell your story.

:

00:56:29,460 --> 00:56:31,900

Your story is the most important part.

:

00:56:32,170 --> 00:56:32,870

Who am I?

:

00:56:33,110 --> 00:56:34,000

What do I do?

:

00:56:34,090 --> 00:56:35,280

What is my why?

:

00:56:35,530 --> 00:56:39,530

How can somebody like Brian make that come

out on my website and in my marketing?

:

00:56:39,740 --> 00:56:45,020

But also, how does the physical asset

and how we operate it convey that?

:

00:56:45,630 --> 00:56:50,110

That's so important and people

want to just, Tyler, you said

:

00:56:50,110 --> 00:56:51,250

it, we didn't want cookie cutter.

:

00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:56,520

People will cookie cutter because I mean

if I can get another RV in there, why not?

:

00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:57,460

That's another site rental.

:

00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,950

But does that fit your vision

and does it tell your story?

:

00:57:00,950 --> 00:57:04,090

And if it doesn't, then you need to

steer away from that because you're

:

00:57:04,110 --> 00:57:07,520

going to make more money maybe

with a higher ADR on a bigger site.

:

00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,870

But you can't try to just cram stuff in

and make it fit and make it cookie cutter.

:

00:57:12,140 --> 00:57:15,940

It's got to be, and that's, you

probably can tell, and if anybody's

:

00:57:15,940 --> 00:57:18,940

seen me on here before, I love

digging into the philosophical side

:

00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:20,730

because if you don't figure that out.

:

00:57:21,310 --> 00:57:23,010

There's a tough to tip

mouse column behind Scott.

:

00:57:23,260 --> 00:57:28,880

If you don't figure that out, you will

never ever, you won't have a cohesive,

:

00:57:29,470 --> 00:57:32,870

your park is not going to, something's

going to seem out of place to your guests.

:

00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:34,170

They're going to notice that.

:

00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:38,000

If your property doesn't convey

your vision and tell your story,

:

00:57:38,490 --> 00:57:40,890

then it's going to become,

it's not going to be cohesive.

:

00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,590

So that's, I'm glad you said that

right there at the end, right?

:

00:57:44,590 --> 00:57:45,940

Because I've been thinking

that the whole time.

:

00:57:45,940 --> 00:57:47,590

It's just, it's such an important part.

:

00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:47,660

Scott Knepp: Thank you.

:

00:57:48,425 --> 00:57:50,535

I want to hang out with this group so bad.

:

00:57:50,545 --> 00:57:53,465

Brian, what a cool person you

are to get so many cool friends.

:

00:57:53,505 --> 00:57:57,695

But Greg, I think you said it so good,

man, which is know your vision and

:

00:57:57,755 --> 00:57:59,415

Mariah said it with know who you are.

:

00:57:59,695 --> 00:58:03,575

But, and the other thing is that

I'm, is that doesn't just translate

:

00:58:03,645 --> 00:58:05,735

to design development decisions.

:

00:58:05,735 --> 00:58:09,085

If you can be really clear with

that makes it all the way down to

:

00:58:09,085 --> 00:58:12,305

the way you train your front desk

and the verbiage that you're using.

:

00:58:12,305 --> 00:58:12,505

All the way through.

:

00:58:13,490 --> 00:58:16,840

Totally, because so often you get

stuck, even just something as simple

:

00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,600

as a phone greeting, that should be

consistent and standard and it should

:

00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,830

come from your story and it should

match the look and feel of the whole

:

00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:26,790

vibe of the rest of the resort, right?

:

00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,680

If you can find that alignment, not

just in the development and let it

:

00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,570

trickle all the way down to the verbiage

on your documents and the language

:

00:58:33,570 --> 00:58:38,750

that your team is using, it's very

impactful for the guest experience.

:

00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:39,160

Brian Searl: Absolutely.

:

00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:39,774

Absolutely.

:

00:58:40,315 --> 00:58:42,535

All right, we're running a couple

minutes over, so unfortunately I got

:

00:58:42,535 --> 00:58:44,445

to cut us off of a great discussion.

:

00:58:44,455 --> 00:58:45,515

I appreciate everybody being here.

:

00:58:45,565 --> 00:58:47,315

Candice, we didn't get to talk much.

:

00:58:47,575 --> 00:58:48,825

Joe, you talked a little bit more.

:

00:58:49,125 --> 00:58:51,425

Hopefully we'll get you guys more

involved when you come back next week.

:

00:58:51,425 --> 00:58:52,465

Mariah, thanks for being here.

:

00:58:53,045 --> 00:58:54,585

Ed, thanks for being a special guest.

:

00:58:54,585 --> 00:58:55,755

Tyler, thanks for being a special guest.

:

00:58:55,755 --> 00:58:57,195

Super great insights.

:

00:58:57,235 --> 00:59:00,565

Greg, Nate, Scott, as always, and

we will see you all next week for

:

00:59:00,565 --> 00:59:03,335

another RV Industry Focus Show,

this time for the fourth week.

:

00:59:03,605 --> 00:59:04,495

Other than that, take care, guys.

:

00:59:04,495 --> 00:59:05,175

We'll see you in about a month.

:

00:59:05,875 --> 00:59:06,305

Thanks, everybody.

:

00:59:06,585 --> 00:59:07,045

Tyler Watts: Thanks, Brian.

:

00:59:07,255 --> 00:59:07,745

Great talk.

:

00:59:08,745 --> 00:59:13,935

Joining us for this episode of MC Fireside

Chats with your host, Brian Searl.

:

00:59:14,285 --> 00:59:16,065

Have a suggestion for a show idea?

:

00:59:16,315 --> 00:59:18,845

Want your campground or

company in a future episode?

:

00:59:18,965 --> 00:59:20,895

Email us at hello at moderncampground.

:

00:59:21,455 --> 00:59:21,875

com.

:

00:59:21,965 --> 00:59:24,655

Get your daily dose of

news from moderncampground.

:

00:59:24,655 --> 00:59:28,925

com and be sure to join us next week

for more insights into the fascinating

:

00:59:28,925 --> 00:59:30,565

world of outdoor hospitality.

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