The August 12, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats opened with host Brian Searl navigating a rainy day indoors, setting a resilient tone for a deep dive into the current state of the outdoor hospitality industry. Searl welcomed a diverse panel of returning experts and fresh faces to unpack the shifting dynamics of guest experiences, park management, and industry economics. The conversation quickly zeroed in on how macroeconomic trends are forcing campground operators to rethink their strategies, especially as the post-pandemic camping boom continues to normalize into a more challenging financial landscape.

Scott Foos of Horizon Outdoors initiated the core discussion by highlighting a significant shift in camper behavior, specifically the softening of transient RV business juxtaposed with the strengthening of extended and seasonal stays. He pointed out that many investors who acquired properties during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic between 2021 and 2023 based their financial underwriting on transient demand that simply has not materialized as projected. As a result, properties attempting to cater to both transient and extended-stay demographics without a focused intention are leaving guests on both ends of the spectrum completely underwhelmed.

Tom Mason from IVEE Management strongly agreed with this assessment, noting that operators who proactively shifted their focus toward long-term stays are now reaping the benefits of higher occupancy stability. However, Mason emphasized the severe financial pressures currently squeezing park owners, including skyrocketing insurance premiums, inflated property taxes, and rising labor costs. He warned that as many operators approach the five-year mark on their loans, they are facing steep interest rate adjustments that threaten profitability, placing immense pressure on management teams to find savings without compromising the guest experience.

Providing an architectural and developmental perspective, Zach Stoltenberg of LJA shared how these market realities are altering physical park designs. He offered a compelling example of a Texas lakeside property that added fifty RV sites a few years ago to capture transient traffic, only to find them empty after a nearby construction project concluded. Stoltenberg explained that his team is now helping that operator pivot by scrapping the underperforming RV sites in favor of stick-built cabins, modular units, and glamping accommodations designed to attract the highly lucrative group and family demographics.

Offering a contrasting, localized viewpoint, Kaleigh Day of Surf Junction Campground in Ucluelet, British Columbia, shared that her market remains largely insulated from the transient RV downturn. Day explained that her RV sites stay booked year-round, heavily driven by European tourists renting RVs in Calgary and traveling through the Canadian Rockies. Interestingly, she noted that rising inflation and exorbitant ferry costs are driving local Canadians away from expensive RV ownership and back toward traditional tent camping, which has significantly bolstered her shoulder-season bookings.

Chris Lambert, the Chief Operating Officer of Streamside Parks, introduced his perspective as a relative newcomer to the industry who has helped scale his company from seven to nearly forty parks in just three years. Drawing on his extensive background in the restaurant industry, Lambert stressed the importance of operating as a house of brands rather than a rigid corporate franchise. He emphasized the necessity of preserving the unique local identity and legacy of each acquired park while implementing high-level operational support to elevate the overall guest experience.

The financial complexities of the current market were further demystified by Jayne Cohen of Campground Consulting Group. Cohen stated bluntly that unless an operator is content running a small mom-and-pop facility, a modern institutional RV park realistically needs between two hundred and two hundred and fifty sites to make the math work against today's high acquisition and construction costs. She echoed the concerns regarding adjustable-rate mortgages, noting that many syndicated models are now having to ask investors for additional capital injections just to stay afloat.

Despite the financial hurdles, the entire panel agreed that exceptional customer service remains the ultimate differentiator in a tightening market. Kaleigh Day highlighted the immense value of simple follow-up emails and frontline staff asking guests for feedback upon checkout, noting that implementing minor suggestions builds massive guest loyalty. Chris Lambert added to this by training his staff on the concept of connection versus checklist, urging team members to understand the reasoning behind standard operating procedures rather than blindly hiding behind corporate policies.

Zach Stoltenberg raised a critical question regarding whether the influx of institutional capital is inherently detrimental to this necessary guest connection, comparing corporate conglomerates to traditional family-run operations. Jayne Cohen responded that the industry has always been a people-centric business, and successful operators at any scale understand that generating repeat and referral business is the only true winning strategy. Tom Mason chimed in before departing the call, adding that corporate owners must empower their onsite managers to make immediate, common-sense decisions to resolve guest issues without bureaucratic delays.

To drive ancillary revenue without massive capital expenditures, Scott Foos shared a creative success story from a remote Colorado property where building a full restaurant was unfeasible. Instead, his team opened a tiny bar and partnered with a local high-end rancher to sell custom meat kits, perfectly solving a guest friction point while boosting the park's bottom line. Zach Stoltenberg praised this approach, advising operators that they do not need to build every amenity themselves; partnering with existing local businesses for food, rentals, or excursions is often a much safer and highly profitable alternative.

As the conversation shifted toward the dangers of market saturation, Jayne Cohen pointed to Houston, Texas, as a prime cautionary tale of developers blindly building in a crowded market until operators were forced into a race to the bottom. She noted that ground-up development is currently incredibly difficult and advised new entrants to consider acquisitions instead of attempting to build from scratch. Chris Lambert agreed, noting that while there are economies of scale in owning multiple parks in one region, operators must ensure their properties cater to different demographics or stay types to avoid cannibalizing their own sales.

Wrapping up the broadcast, Brian Searl thanked the comprehensive panel for their transparent and deeply insightful contributions to the complex landscape of outdoor hospitality. The consensus among the experts was clear: while the easy operational days of the pandemic boom are firmly in the rearview mirror, immense opportunities remain for campground operators who deeply understand their local nuances, adapt their accommodation mixes, and relentlessly prioritize the human element of the guest experience.

Welcome, everybody, to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

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My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perks

and Modern Campground, and by the only

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plant I could find real quick, 'cause

it's raining outside and I had to come

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inside and couldn't do the show in my

normal outdoor hospitality setting.

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Uh, but we're here excited back,

uh, for another episode with a

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couple of our recurring guests that

are, uh, excited to have join us.

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Zach Stoltenberg is here.

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Uh, Tom Mason's a new recurring

guest from IVEE for this week.

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Welcome, Tom.

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I'll have everybody introduce

themselves in a second.

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Scott Foos has been missing for,

like, I don't know, a couple years.

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Popped out, and, like, have you been…

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What have you been doing, Scott?

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Were you, like, in Asia or

something, like, got your head down?

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Are you s- been working,

or what's been going on?

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Scott Foos: Working, uh, yes, working,

traveling, two young kids on summer break.

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Uh, it's, life's been busy,

but I'm really glad to be here.

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Brian Searl: Well, we're

excited to have you back too.

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Uh, Jayne Cohen, recurring guest.

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Chris Lambert from Streamside,

uh, uh, Parks is, uh, one of our,

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uh, special guests this week.

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Uh, and we've got Kaleigh, who's

a, I think you're, you're a new

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recurring guest, too, right, Kaleigh?

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Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

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Brian Searl: Yeah, okay.

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All right.

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See, they don't tell me anything.

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I just show up and I talk, and I,

I can't even say I look pretty,

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'cause I don't do that, obviously.

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You're all looking at this.

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Um, but okay, so let's go around

and briefly introduce ourselves.

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Zach Stoltenberg: Zach,

do you wanna start?

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Sure.

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Uh, Zach Stoltenberg.

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I'm with LJA Engineering.

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I'm an architect, and then we specialize

in helping people design, plan, permit,

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and then title glamping and campground

projects all over the country and,

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and in some other countries too.

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Brian Searl: Welcome, Zach.

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Whoever wants to go next

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Tom Mason: I'll go next.

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Uh, Tom Mason with IVEE Management,

and, uh, we are a third-party

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management company, uh, operating

parks all across the United States,

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and we've been doing it since 2017,

and I head up the organization.

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Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Tom.

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Scott?

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Scott Foos: Hey, yeah.

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I'm Scott Foos.

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I'm with Horizon Outdoor Hospitality.

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We're a full service hospitality

management firm and professional

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services, uh, provider for the

outdoor hospitality industry.

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We, uh, we work with, with, uh, with

properties nationwide, and, um, have,

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have been, I've been in the industry since

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Brian Searl: Thanks for

being here, Scott, as always.

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Uh, Kaleigh?

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Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

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Hi, my name's Kaleigh Day.

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Uh, my husband and I own and operate Surf

Junction Campground out in Ucluelet, BC.

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We bought it back in…

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We bought it

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back in 2012 and have been

running it ever since.

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Um, and yeah, that's pretty much it.

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We also have…

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We also have a surf school as well.

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Brian Searl: Welcome.

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Appreciate you being here.

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Uh, Chris, you wanna go?

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Release Chris?

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I know it's frozen I think, I

think Chris is frozen for me,

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so Jayne, are you there too?

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Jayne Cohen: I am here but I'm

having problems with my camera.

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But I'm Jayne Cohen from, I'm the

CEO of Campground Consulting Group,

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and, uh, based out of the East Coast.

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Brian Searl: Welcome, Jayne.

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I'm having problems with my camera too.

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For whatever reason I look like this, so

just kind of ignore that for this week.

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Um, but okay.

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So what, so typically what we do

is we start this kind of episode,

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we'll turn to our recurring guests.

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So, uh, Kaleigh and Tom are new.

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Uh, you can contribute

certainly too, Zach, Scott-

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Jayne Cohen: Hi

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… Brian Searl: uh, and Jayne.

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Jayne Cohen: Hello.

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Brian Searl: Is there anything that's

been, uh, coming across your desk in

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the last month since we've been together

on this show that you guys think we

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should be talking about or discussing?

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No?

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Everybody's gonna be

quiet at the same time?

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Kaleigh Day: No.

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Zach Stoltenberg: I always like

to hear what other people are,

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are seeing before I pipe in

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Brian Searl: All right, Scott,

what have you been seeing?

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You've been missing for a

couple months in action here.

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What have you been seeing as

you've traveled around and

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been managing client parks and-

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Scott Foos: Yeah

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Brian Searl: you can talk about your kids

if you want, but I think the parks is

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probably more interesting to our audience.

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Scott Foos: Pr- pr- probably

this audience, yeah.

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Um, yeah.

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Well, one of the things that, uh, that

I've been, or that we've been noticing

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as, as a firm has been, um, you know,

folks have obviously been talking

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about, um, the, uh, the fact that

transient business is, is down, extended

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stay business is, is strengthening.

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You know, that's, I think, I think

everybody here probably knows

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that has, has, has heard of that.

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Um, but I think what's interesting

to me is seeing that, uh, a lot of

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the underwriting that was done in

the COVID boom, in the COVID years

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'21, '23, um, you know, hasn't

materialized for, for many people that,

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that were buyers in that timeframe.

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And we're coming up on a lot of five-year

hold patterns and, um, for investors.

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And I think, I think it's interesting

to see, um, folks that have been, uh,

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operators, um, that have been, uh,

attempting to, to, to drive additional

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seasonal and extended stay business,

um, and kinda the reversion back

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in many ways to what the industry,

um, was in terms of that split of

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demographics, uh, pre-COVID, and some

of the ways that different operators,

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um, are, are attracting those guests.

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And, and, um, and further to,

to, I think the point that's

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interesting to me is seeing many

people that are trying to do…

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attract both types of, of guests

at the same time, and not really

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having a lot of intention behind how

they're attracting transient versus

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extended stay guests and, and I think

leaving some guests feeling a bit, uh,

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underwhelmed on both ends of the spectrum.

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Um, so I know this is, uh, supposed to

be a bit more, uh, guest experience,

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uh, focused, but I think that trend,

um, is something that, that's, that's

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tracking now, and I'm curious if others

in, in this space that are in the…

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uh, on this panel that are in the, the

management or, or acquisition side are,

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are seeing some of that, that same thing.

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Tom Mason: Well, Scott, you and I

are in the same, same world, so I

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agree with your, you know, what the

trend has been, downward transient,

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upward extended stay, long-term stay.

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Uh, and if you made that shift,

you know, say last year, were able

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to make some of that shift last

year, your pr- your benef- we're…

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You can benefit because you're, you, you

filled the park with more long-term stays.

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Uh, and whatever transient's coming in,

if you, in theory, kinda shrunk your

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park, you'd maybe be able to scrape away

a few extra bucks- In ADR because you

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have fewer sites available for transient.

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So that's, uh, that's a trend that I don't

see changing too much in the near future.

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Uh, but going back to your comment

about, you know, during COVID and

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underwriting not meeting, uh, the

requirements, that then takes you to the

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next phase, what happens to those parks?

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And, uh, I'm starting to see some

of that, um, pressure be placed on

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the owners who went through that

process three, four years ago.

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The banks are now

beginning to ask questions.

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Brian Searl: I was, I was commenting

on this to Scott Bahr this morning in a

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chat, and I just said kind of anecdotally,

like, "I feel like I'm getting a whole

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lot more emails of parks that are

for sale in the last couple weeks."

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So- And I don't know if we have

a directly, direct correlation,

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but it must in some way, right?

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Kaleigh Day: So long-term overall,

'cause I'm kind of in a pretty, you

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know, uh, zoomed in space, right?

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I have my bubble, and we have, like, the

Vancouver Island tourism, which is, I

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think, a bit different from, like, the RV

parks around the States for the most part.

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So it sounds like long-term, uh,

stays are down, are declining

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Brian Searl: I think long-term

stays are stable mostly and

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transient is declining, right?

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Is that fair?

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Scott Foos: Yeah.

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Yeah, I think that's fair.

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And, you know, I think you look back

at, um, you know, w- uh, just my own

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personal, uh, uh, experience in this

specific situation, and I think, you know,

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others would, would have similar paths.

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But clients that were acquiring

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thesis that transient demand is, is, is

growing and booming and, um, uh, many

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properties had a high level of seasonal

or extended stay, uh, occupants pre-COVID.

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Yeah.

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And, and that, you know, they, they

were able to capitalize on that

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for a short period of time, but now

we're, you know, certainly the last

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few years we've been reverting back.

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And so then the entire investment

thesis for the most part

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is, um, is out the window.

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And so figuring out how to , how to

make it work in a, in a very different

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environment is, um, i- is I think

something that one of the reasons,

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Brian, why you're seeing, we're seeing

more properties coming onto the market

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Brian Searl: Well, here's the,

here's the, here's a question I have.

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Are we actually reverting or

are we just reverting in RV?

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Because there's a whole lot of demand

out there that I see for people going-

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Zach Stoltenberg: I would say-

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… Brian Searl: camping and glamping

and everything else, right?

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Scott Foos: So specifically

I'm talking RV.

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Zach Stoltenberg: If I were to weigh in.

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Scott Foos: Yeah.

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Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah.

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On, on my side, on the design side, um,

I think we're seeing similar trends,

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but different decisions being made.

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Um, so y- as an example, we're working

with an operator right now, uh, with

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a site down in Texas that made a

decision, I don't know, four or five

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years ago, um, to put in RV sites.

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Uh, wanting to take advantage of that

push, uh, that high transient market.

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Um, they put in I think about 50 sites,

uh, at, at one of the properties,

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and it never really materialized.

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Um, location is tough.

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It's on a lake.

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It's a beautiful property on a lake.

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Um, but, y- you know, the, the

demand just wasn't there for RV.

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Uh, they shared with me, they said really

the only time the RV has paid off, uh,

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there was a new factory being built, uh,

a few miles away from their location,

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and there was a whole bunch of workers.

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They came in to build that, I think

it was a, a automotive factory or

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something, or battery plant or something.

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But, um, she said, "Yeah, we

were full for about nine months.

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Um, and then they finished

construction and all the workers left."

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Um, and so now we're working with them to

revamp that section and we're looking at,

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uh, converting some of those to modular

or park built, uh, park model cabins.

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Uh, some of them we're just gonna

scrap altogether and, and have

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a little more open space, a big

communal area between several sites.

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Um, and they are very interested

in pushing into glamping and some

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alternative units, uh, because in their

market, the, the demand drivers that

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they're seeing are people that wanna

come to the lake, families, kids, uh,

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fishermen is a big market for them.

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Um, and so we're looking at more

stick-built and modular cabins,

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some unique glamping structures.

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Um, and then really the other thing

that I'm, I'm seeing or we're seeing

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on our end, a, a push, a trend

across outdoor hospitality right now

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is really to groups and families.

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Um, so larger units or, or, you

know, larger homes that maybe you can

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accommodate 12 to 14, 16 people in.

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Um, and ADRs for those can be

really, really high because

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usually you're, you're splitting

it amongst three or four families.

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You know, if you looked at a

16-person unit, uh, $1,200 for a

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night, that's, you know, for four

families, that's $200 a family.

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You could stay in a

regular hotel for that.

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Um, and so that's, that's another trend

that we're seeing is really chasing

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groups, uh, specifically families and

kids and, and people pivoting away from

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that transient RV and converting those

sites into something that maybe is a

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little more stable, a little bit more

in demand, or might have a higher ADR

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Scott Foos: Yeah, I, I, I think that,

that really resonates and, and I think

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when we look at fr- uh, when we look

at the different stay types between

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RV and lodging, and Brian you- You,

you, you br- brought up a great point,

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that lodging overall is continuing

to perform well, outperforming this

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year specifically, but has been

trending in that way for some time.

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And I think, Zach, to your point, you

know, we, we resonate with that, that

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a lot of folks that have stayed in,

in traditional hotel, uh, offerings

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understand the unique benefits now

that booking, you know, a pod of cabins

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together with that communal space, but

having shared, having separate s- shared

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but separate spaces as well, or the

larger homes, it, it really resonates.

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But then on the RV side too,

I think maybe go back to what

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Kaleigh's doing with, with her us.

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But I mean, those, those RV destinations

that are very specific on experiences and

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destination markets, that are building

experiences not just as a revenue line

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item, but to truly solve needs for

their guests, are performing well.

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I mean, I don't know Kaleigh's

business, but I'm sure it's

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performing well because they're very

intentional with where they are.

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Kaleigh, does that, does that

track with what you're seeing?

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Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

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Our RV section's just full year

round, but we're on this, um, RV

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rental, Europeans flying into Calgary,

getting the RVs, doing the Rockies.

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They kind of end where we are and

then go to fly out of Vancouver.

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So we have this stream of RV

rentals, and so they book early.

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They, um, they're great.

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They're, we have a huge number of

Europeans that come out here, um, and like

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Canada is a big hot ticket item for them.

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And especially in the last couple

of years, um, last like three or

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four it's really taken off again.

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Um, 'cause obviously

it dipped during COVID.

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Uh, but yeah, so we

haven't really seen that.

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That's why it's like I'm so zoomed in.

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It's like interesting hearing the trends,

um, everywhere else, uh, because- Mm-hmm

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… we're kind of just like a, a set.

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Um, yeah.

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We haven't really, we don't

see those trends too, too much.

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Um, but there is definitely a different-

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Brian Searl: Well, I don't think

we've seen it in, in a large part

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of Canada overall, right, Kaleigh?

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Like I, I mean I'm in Calgary, but

like I, I talk to Cara all the time.

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Cara Csizmadia's on the show once a

month from the Canadian Camping and

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RV Council, and like I think we've

benefited greatly from the Canadians

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staying home from going south for

whatever reason they might be doing that.

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Kaleigh Day: Yes.

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Yeah.

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Brian Searl: Uh, we won't get

into that today, but like we've-

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Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

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… Brian Searl: benefited from that.

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And so I, I think there's maybe something

coming that might be a little bit of

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a downturn for, let's just call it

the macro level in Canada in the next-

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Kaleigh Day: Yeah

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… Brian Searl: one or two years if the

economy doesn't fix itself, but I

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think parks that are in your position

may be insulated somewhat from that.

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Kaleigh Day: And, and we also,

camping thrives, you know, when

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the cost of living goes up.

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So, um- Mm-hmm … that's

like another thing right now.

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It's like a lot of,

more people are camping.

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We're one of the more affordable,

uh, accommodations in our area.

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So right now tenting, a lot of

family, it's their first time camping.

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They'll borrow some gear and they

come and camp with us, but they

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don't have any experience camping.

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We aren't- Typical campers.

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So it's been interesting, um, because,

you know, hotels and everything, the costs

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are just starting to go up and up and up.

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So, like, they typically would have

rented the cabins or whatever, but

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now, um, so our shoulder season for

camping is starting to get busier

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and busier is what we're finding.

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Um-

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Brian Searl: But that, that goes

back to the guest experience.

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Like, I was talking to, I think

it's Jamie Scott, who's the leader

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of the BC Provincial Association-

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Kaleigh Day: Mm-hmm

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… Brian Searl: a few weeks ago, and I

think I mentioned it on this show, but

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he was talking about there was a, a

campground on Vancouver Island that was

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trying to go for RVs, and they weren't

really full, and he talked them into

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converting to tents, and now they're just

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They can't, they have waiting lists

that are so long because everybody is

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willing to come over from Vancouver.

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Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

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Brian Searl: Millions of people

sitting right there that can cross

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the ferry, but didn't have an RV.

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And so it's all goes back to

this where the show is kind of

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about guest experience, right?

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It's am I measuring what my guest

wants versus what the demand

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is versus what they can afford

versus all the intangibles, right?

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Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

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Brian Searl: And if you can figure

out, then, like, on a macro level, I

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think there's a whole lot of success

still to be had in our industry.

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Kaleigh Day: Yeah, I think so.

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Especially with where, um, where we

live, there's a ferry that goes from

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the mainland of, um, Canada out to the

island, and that, the cost is starting

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to get, just go through the roof.

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So now it's like, especially

if you're in a trailer or RV.

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So that's something that really impacts.

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Mm-hmm.

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That's why the Europeans, for

them, they're like a shoo-in 'cause

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it's their big vacation, right?

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But a lot more local BC or wherever

Canadians, if you will, are starting

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to forego their trailers and their

motor homes 'cause the cost, the gas,

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ferry, and then the si- the RV sites

are a lot more expensive as well.

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So a lot more people here where

we are are starting to go back

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to camping, or tenting, sorry.

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Brian Searl: Chris, do

we have you back now?

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Chris Lambert: Yes, I apologize.

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I don't know why my WiFi went out.

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Um, Chris Lambert-

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Brian Searl: That's okay

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… Chris Lambert: CEO of,

uh, Streamside Parks.

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Happy to be here.

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Um, been in the industry about

three years now, so I'm the newbie.

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Uh, excited to learn and, uh, and

connect with everybody on the call, so.

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Brian Searl: So well, newbie, tell

us about Streamside Parks now that

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we have you back, just in case

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Chris Lambert: we have

to get rid of you again.

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Yeah, we've grown fast.

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I've been with them three years, and

when I started we had seven parks,

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and now we're, uh, pushing 40.

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So-

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Kaleigh Day: Oh, wow

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… Chris Lambert: we've

expanded pretty quickly.

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Um, but I, I think it's, it's a, I have

a big, um, hospitality background in

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restaurant management specifically,

so it's all people business.

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We're just, uh, in the lodging and, uh,

RV business instead of putting pasta

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on a plate and making people smile.

351

So, um, there's a lot

of related things there.

352

Brian Searl: So as you listen to

the conversations that we've been

353

having in the first few minutes

of the show, you are still a net

354

acquirer of parks, as you just said.

355

What, what kinda goes through

your head when you're hearing

356

all these conversations?

357

Chris Lambert: Yeah, I, I,

I think it's specialization

358

and, and understanding nuance.

359

I think, you know, there's, were some,

some trends we could ride previously,

360

but now I think we have to really dig

and look at each park level, regional

361

level, as it relates to what the

guest experience and what the, the,

362

you know, the market can give us.

363

But then also on the, on the macro level,

what can we do fundamentally, you know,

364

as a portfolio, some key deliverables

that we can focus on to, uh, to m- make

365

your a, gu- guest, great guest experience.

366

Um, and then so, you know, that's,

that's where, uh, that's what I enjoy

367

is, is kinda getting under the hood on

developing our team and finding great

368

people and great leaders, uh, kind of

building a culture, um, of people first.

369

And, um, and, uh, it's been really well

received and I've just really embraced,

370

uh, the RV industry as well, so.

371

Brian Searl: So what makes

Streamside a little bit different?

372

What are you guys trying to accomplish

for those that don't know you?

373

Chris Lambert: Um, I, I think, um, for

us we're, you know, we're a house of

374

brands, not a branded house approach.

375

So, you know, where we want to

make sure the park level dynamic is

376

first and then Streamside is second.

377

So we're not pushing

down this corporate…

378

We're not a McDonald's,

we're not a franchise model.

379

We're looking at what makes that

park specifically unique, what's the

380

history, what's the legacy, what's

the, the local interactions, and,

381

and build and add support to that.

382

So I think that's, that's part of it.

383

And, and also for me being the

operational leader, it's about people.

384

Um, you know, that, that's what

makes these ticks, you know?

385

Um, you, you can, you can live and die

by that sword, but, um, but I think a lot

386

of it is just having the right people at

the right place doing the right things.

387

Brian Searl: So how do you

end up as COO at Streamside?

388

What's your story?

389

Chris Lambert: So started

with, uh, restaurants when I

390

was 15 and didn't leave them.

391

Um, and so, you know, as kids

were getting older, I wanted

392

more of a, a different change.

393

Um, met John, the, the founder and CEO,

um, and, uh, we, we really had a really

394

good relationship and, um, was able to…

395

So again, you know, he kind of told me

to hold on, but, uh, didn't realize we

396

were gonna grow as fast as we, we have.

397

But, um, but it's not about, I

think, number of parks as much

398

as quality of parks and, and,

uh, and really understanding the

399

challenges, the nuances of each one.

400

Um, so, you know, that's a

little bit about my background.

401

A, a, a lot…

402

I'm a tent camper, so it's glad

to hear the tents coming back.

403

Uh, um, hopefully I'll be

coming around that trend.

404

Um, but, you know, I think a lot of it is

I love the outdoors, I love people, I love

405

solving problems, taking care of people.

406

So that's what makes me happy.

407

Brian Searl: You're, you're gonna

make me ask all the questions?

408

Nobody has anything else to say?

409

Yeah, it's quiet.

410

Tom Mason: Well, welcome to our world, uh-

411

Chris Lambert: It's your show

412

… Tom Mason: Chris.

413

Chris, welcome to our world, and if

you ever need, I don't know, Scott

414

and I and you are kind of doing a

lot of the same things, so feel free

415

to reach out if you have questions.

416

Chris Lambert: Yep will do

417

Tom Mason: I would feel the same

418

Brian Searl: All right, what

else is going on in the world?

419

We're talking about guest

experience on the show today.

420

What else is, uh- What else is new?

421

Because I, because I think, like, as we

have this conversation, as we talk about

422

some of the things that on a macro level,

obviously there are micro successes, on

423

a macro level, transient RV specifically

might be having a, a temporary issue

424

that, I don't know, who, who knows

how long that's gonna go on, right?

425

I'm of a provincial mindset.

426

I don't think we're ever gonna sell as

427

But I, I don't know if I'm right or wrong.

428

I still think there's a very bright

future for outdoor hospitality.

429

But I think it all goes down

to that guest experience.

430

I think there's been a, and again, I'm

saying this on a macro level, right?

431

Uh, there are certainly tons

of micro example successes

432

that we could talk about.

433

I think on a macro level, many people

who have run RV parks in the last

434

60 years have had to do very little

thinking about the guest experience.

435

And Scott, you've been in, in

the industry for a long time.

436

You can maybe talk to that too, but,

but what I mean by that is not that

437

you don't care about your guests.

438

They do.

439

But that most people who have been

your typical RV park guest for the last

440

60 years have wanted the same thing.

441

They've wanted the parking lot with

the miniature golf course and maybe

442

the swimming pool and a little camp

store where they can buy some goods and

443

take their grandkids for the weekend

or whatever else, and the expectation

444

hasn't changed, so they haven't had

to diagnose the guest experience.

445

Is that fair, Scott, or am I way off base?

446

Scott Foos: No, I, I, I think that's,

I think that's absolutely fair.

447

I think that, you know, um, the industry

and expectations have been, uh, evolving

448

and those demands have been, uh,

evolving, uh, you know, for some time.

449

But I certainly think that, uh, in today's

economy, um, and post-COVID, and with

450

the emerging, um, you know, Gen Z and

millennial becoming, uh, demographic

451

becoming even more of a going concern

in our industry, uh, like all things,

452

that, that has to shift and evolve.

453

And, and I think what we see is

properties, are properties trying

454

to, to be both things without

doing either of them really well.

455

Mm.

456

And it's not so much knowing your guest.

457

I mean, of course it's important

to know your, know your guest.

458

Um, but it's, it's really in, in, in

understanding how to double down and

459

offer the right amenities and the right

experience, the right programming for

460

each of, each of your demographic types.

461

And sp- if we keep it kinda macro

right now and, and focus on RV,

462

transient versus extended stay, um, you

know, I think that they require very

463

different, very different approaches.

464

And we're seeing properties that had

been acquired with the goal of acqui-

465

of, of paring down seasonal and growing

transient with operators that haven't

466

been in the space, um, or you know,

uh, just don't have a lot of experience

467

at all in hospitality, not just in

RV, um, try to, try to successfully

468

now rebuild a program that was maybe

there before, um, is they're having a

469

difficult time without really knowing

what the guests are looking for.

470

And it's, it, it's, it's more structural

in how the investment thesis was

471

underwritten and how that property

can be supported financially and with

472

enough patience on the capital side

to be able to achieve those goals.

473

And I think, not to go back to the

point about the five-year hold, but

474

many investors acquire properties

with five, seven-year holds.

475

We're coming up against that, and

so patience is, is running out.

476

And, um, I think there's gonna be a

lot of opportunity for folks that can

477

understand how to double down on those

experiences for those different types

478

of guests moving forward to, uh, to

potentially acquire properties to really

479

get more specific about the actual

experience they're trying to, to build.

480

Brian Searl: Does the math work on all of

these parks that were acquired, though?

481

'Cause I remember reading a, I was

reading a, uh, I can't remember.

482

It was a Facebook post in a, in

one of, maybe it was Kep's group,

483

either this morning or yesterday.

484

They were talking about a 30,

40-site RV park and how that may

485

not be mathematically possible to

run and with today's interest rates

486

and today's expenses and today's

inflation with the staff that you

487

need and all the, and all the things.

488

Jayne, what do you think of it?

489

Does that make ma- mathematically

sense with the types of properties

490

that are trying to succeed in 2026?

491

Jayne Cohen: Yes.

492

I, I, I think that, uh, unless, um, you're

gonna be a true, like, mom-and-pop type

493

of operation, which there's absolutely

nothing wrong with that, um, you gotta get

494

into that, like, 200, 250 site number to

really, uh, make the numbers make sense.

495

And it's really a very simple calculation,

uh, you know, if you're gonna acquire

496

a park or you're gonna build a park,

just back of the envelope kinda numbers

497

is looking at, you know, what can a

site, what does a site gross, right?

498

What's the gross of, of, uh, if

you're buying a campground and you're

499

gonna build a campground and you

do your comps, what is the, what

500

do you think each site can gross?

501

And if you just simply say, "Well,

if I'm grossing, let's make it easy,

502

if I can gross 10,000 a year, but

I'm paying 100,000 a site," right?

503

Or, "It's gonna cost me 100 grand a

site to build, but I, my gross is 10,"

504

then I've gotta sit there for 10 years.

505

And, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's

kind of what Scott just said, you know?

506

You, you've gotta prepare

to, to hold that asset.

507

And, um, what's happened now is with

interest rates staying high, right?

508

And maybe even getting higher, I, I

don't know, I don't have a crystal

509

ball, um, a lot of people when

they get to the five-year mark,

510

their note is about to adjust.

511

So if they had a lower interest rate,

or it has adjusted, but if they have a

512

low interest rate or a lower interest

rate and they're adjusting now, chances

513

are their interest rates are gonna

go up, and that, that really hurts.

514

Uh, and, and that's…

515

We're starting to see that.

516

Uh, I don't know if anyone else

is starting to see that, but we're

517

starting to see those interest rates

now being called and going up, and

518

some are having to put some capital in.

519

Um, some of the syndicated models

are, you know, asking investors for

520

more capital, that type of thing.

521

So not, not, you know, doom and

gloom, it's just financial…

522

This is just financials You know,

operationally the park might be

523

performing, but the interest rates and the

outs- outside of that is, is difficult.

524

Is a difficult scenario.

525

Tom Mason: Jayne, in addition

to that, your insurance cost in

526

ma- in almost every park has-

527

Jayne Cohen: Mm-hmm

528

Tom Mason: doubled, tripled, uh, you

know, in, in, in a lot of markets.

529

So between the interest rate increases,

the revenue not materializing- Mm-hmm

530

… as the underwritten, underwriting

indicated, and then other pressures.

531

You can even use property tax.

532

Property taxes have increased as well.

533

Yeah.

534

And insurance, that's added additional

pressure on operators to find savings

535

while labor continues to go up-

536

Jayne Cohen: Mm-hmm

537

and our rate, you know, rates are soggy

and, you know, they're not just…

538

You know, we're going extended

stay, which, you know, doesn't-

539

Which lowers your ADR

540

… Tom Mason: maybe over

the course of a year.

541

Yeah, but over a course of a year,

maybe you generate more revenue,

542

but, you know, it's a, it's a

pressure that, uh, exists at, at

543

many parks across the US I think now.

544

Jayne Cohen: You're right,

Tom, and it's not…

545

To be honest, it's not just

insurance that's going up.

546

We're actually starting to see

a little leveling in insurance,

547

but it's still very high.

548

It's like everything's going up, right?

549

Yeah.

550

Electricity's going up.

551

Um, cost of labor is going up.

552

Even trying to- Yeah … find labor

is difficult, and when you do find

553

them, it's going up even more because

you're, you know, you're inflating

554

it just to get that person so they

won't work at McDonald's, right?

555

I mean-

556

Tom Mason: Right.

557

Right

558

… Jayne Cohen: it's, it's, it's

crazy and, um, and a lot of parks

559

are, they're at their rate height.

560

Do you know what I mean?

561

They can't…

562

Their, their rates are high, and

they can't push the rate anymore

563

because we are seeing campers

having rate resistance, right?

564

We came off of COVID, and you could

kinda do whatever you wanted in COVID.

565

Push your rates high, but now people are

reacting to rates is what I'm finding.

566

Um, and so those- Mm-hmm … of us

that are yielding, which I'm a big

567

believer in dynamic pricing or yielding,

it's, uh, it's really a science.

568

Like, you've gotta be aware of it.

569

Tom Mason: But, uh, you

know, listen to that-

570

Zach Stoltenberg: So I have a question

571

… Tom Mason: I wanna bring back just

real quick, um, the, the idea, and I

572

think, uh, Chris brought it up, and,

uh, you know, Scott and I believe in it.

573

It's about the people, and if you hire

the right people, you can create the right

574

culture at the park, and the experience is

the customer will enjoy it, and that will

575

help that park, um, immensely, you know?

576

And you're al- we're always looking for

the individual that has the skillsets

577

on the HR side, customer relations,

employee relations to create that

578

environment that employees wanna be

there, the guests wanna be there.

579

It's a, it's a good environment.

580

All the other factors, you

know, are ownership issues.

581

Those are the things we deal with,

you know, managing that, that process.

582

Mm-hmm.

583

So, but I, I kinda wanna bring it back.

584

It's, it's really finding the

right individual or individuals

585

at a park that can, uh, make it an

experience that the customer loves.

586

Kaleigh Day: I think, uh-

587

Brian Searl: I wanna go to in a-

588

Kaleigh Day: Oh, sorry

589

… Brian Searl: or Kaleigh in a second,

but just, uh, I thought Zach was

590

gonna say something too before.

591

But Tom-

592

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah

593

… Brian Searl: my question is, is, like,

594

Is it enough to just have an

excellent staff member, or

595

do you need something else?

596

Tom Mason: No, no.

597

Yeah, but that's, if you don't have that,

everything else- Right, that's, you know,

598

Brian Searl: that's fair

599

Tom Mason: doesn't even matter.

600

Brian Searl: Okay.

601

Tom Mason: Yeah.

602

Jayne Cohen: This is a people business.

603

Well- This is a people business.

604

This is a hospitality business.

605

I've been in this business since,

for 51 years, and I recognized that

606

when we first bought our first park,

and it is, it is people centric.

607

I mean, that's the focus, and the

real focus, the successful operators

608

are the ones that can increase

their repeat and referral business.

609

That's the win game.

610

Because if you always have to find a

new guest, that's the tough thing to do.

611

So I always tell my staff, or used

to tell my staff, "Shame on us."

612

If we, if we get them to our door

or get them to ring our phone or

613

get them to our website and we

blow it at that point, shame on us.

614

Because the hardest thing we had to do

was get that first contact with them.

615

After that, we got, we gotta do a good

enough job to keep them in our web.

616

Um, and that's the name of the game.

617

I think that's the winning

recipe in this business.

618

Brian Searl: All right,

Zach and then Kaleigh.

619

Zach Stoltenberg: So I've got a

question that's kind of related to

620

a, a lot of these different things.

621

Um, you know, one thing, yeah, I

mean, thinking about these issues

622

now that are, are very real, um, a, a

lot of these don't seem to have been

623

issues during COVID or even pre-COVID.

624

Um, and I think one of the big changes

that's happened industry-wide was

625

a movement away from a lot of these

smaller mom-and-pop operations,

626

independent operators, um, you know,

family operations, multi-generational,

627

to, you know, during, during COVID, we

saw this huge infusion of capital from

628

institutional groups, um, and moving to

these, you know, these larger sort of

629

conglomerates of, you know, owners of 30,

40, 50 parks, 200 parks, things like that.

630

Um, and, and from a guest experience

perspective, I think some of those

631

things that we've talked about,

like that staff connection, you

632

know, who, who your site manager is,

making, you know, having that, that

633

forward-facing, that person that's there.

634

Um, and I think, you know, some operators

and, and certainly some third-party

635

management companies do a very good

job of, of maintaining that kind of

636

site manager, that forward-facing.

637

But I think it becomes a little bit harder

to cultivate at the institutional level.

638

I think also, you know, some of

the performance metrics, right?

639

Like independent operators,

mom-and-pop, they might feel

640

a crunch one year or another.

641

They might try some new things,

um, you know, to pivot because,

642

hey, this is a down year for this.

643

Whereas I think changes at,

at an institutional level are

644

a little more difficult to

implement, um, and adequately fund.

645

And, and you've got, you know, that board

of investors, the, the people they, behind

646

all that capital that are sitting there

going, "We don't care if it's a down year.

647

Where's our payment?"

648

Um, you've got banks saying, "We

don't care if you had a bad year.

649

Like, your interest rates go

up because this is your five."

650

Um, how much of these issues do, do

we think are, are related to that sort

651

of institutional model that's, that's

started to replace some of the independent

652

operators and the mom-and-pops,

and, and are they insulated from

653

it?

654

Jayne Cohen: Well, Brian, who

do you want to answer that?

655

Brian Searl: Whoever wants to answer it.

656

You guys are all e-

much smarter than I am.

657

Don't look at me.

658

Jayne Cohen: I, I'll take,

I'll take a stab at it.

659

Yeah.

660

Um, I think…

661

So I think it's always been a people

business, and I think if you look, if

662

you look at parks across the country

and you look at the mom-and-pops that

663

became big mom-and-pops, you know,

sophisticated mom-and-pops, I was one

664

of them, um, family businesses that,

uh, did well in this industry, they

665

knew that the focus was on their guests,

and they knew that the focus was, was

666

taking care of that guest and building

repeat and referral business, and they

667

did a very, very good job of it.You

668

know?

669

And Chris, I, I love the fact that

when you came on, and, and by the

670

way, I had not heard of your company,

which is surprising 'cause I think

671

I've almost heard of everyone

being around for as long as I have.

672

But it's…

673

I, I, I like that you're keeping…

674

I, I took it that you're keeping the

individual identities of the parks.

675

Like, you're becoming a corporate

institutional operator, but you're

676

recognizing that the identity of

those parks is a valuable asset.

677

Is…

678

Did I-

679

Chris Lambert: 100%

680

… Jayne Cohen: did I interpret it right?

681

Chris Lambert: Yes, absolutely,

and it's as you said, I mean, it's

682

about guests, and it's about team.

683

It's about people.

684

Jayne Cohen: Right.

685

And we can't, we can't distill that out

from a, from a corporate setting, so.

686

And I think that's-

687

Brian Searl: Well, talk

a little bit about-

688

… Jayne Cohen: super important

689

… Brian Searl: sorry.

690

Go ahead, Jayne, and then I

want to ask Chris a question.

691

Jayne Cohen: Go ahead.

692

No, go.

693

Brian, it's your show.

694

Brian Searl: Well, I, okay.

695

So I was just…

696

Chris, I was just gonna ask you,

with guest experience, then, is there

697

le- is there learnings that you've

taken from your years in restaurants

698

that you think apply to parks?

699

Oh, we lost you.

700

I can't hear you

701

Chris Lambert: Okay.

702

Can you hear me now?

703

Brian Searl: Yep.

704

Chris Lambert: Um, yeah, there's,

there's quite a few things.

705

Um, you know, stuff that we're,

we're constantly teaching, but it's

706

this concept of connection versus

checklist, and whether that's rules

707

and regulations, whether that's, you

know, SO- SOPs or, you know, processes.

708

But Really ask the why.

709

Why do we have those processes in place?

710

It's really to meet a guest need,

to meet a team need, and meet an

711

investor need or, or a business need.

712

So, you know, it's really encouraging

our, our teams at all different levels,

713

um, to really think through that mindset

of let's build connections with people.

714

People can understand when you're

just hiding behind a policy or hiding

715

behind a procedure, but they also

can understand when you're really

716

genuinely trying to be of service,

which is what hospitality is built on.

717

So, you know, that, that's one thing.

718

Um, I think another thing is

personalization, and I think that was…

719

We've heard that a couple times today,

um, throughout, and I think there's a

720

bigger need, demand for personalization.

721

We can't just expect people, um, to

come in and, "Yep, got the amenities

722

I need, got the price I want, and, and

business transaction settled," right?

723

So, um, so I think those two principles

are kind of at a high level what we,

724

we try to, um, to instill and enforce.

725

Um, and then always with, with just,

again, always learning, always teaching.

726

It, it doesn't matter how long, I was in

restaurants longer than I want to share.

727

Um, but, you know, it- it's

all about learning more things.

728

You can always learn every day and

grow, and, and I think that's what,

729

um, you know, if, if, if you have

that in your team and that grit,

730

um, and do the right thing and

thinking about through the guest.

731

And it's not just writing blank checks.

732

There's got to be a business component.

733

There's got to be a team dynamic of what

we can, uh, achieve and not achieve.

734

But, but I think it,

it starts with people.

735

Kaleigh Day: Um, yeah, I…

736

What I was gonna say earlier, and

touching back on, like, what, um, a

737

lot of people are saying, I'm kind of

surprised with, like, bringing it back

738

to, like, the customer experience and

stuff, even just follow-up emails and

739

asking your guests what, if they have

any recommendations for the campgrounds.

740

Um, we started doing that a while

back, and the ideas and, like, some of

741

them are such simple, easy fixes, and

it's enabled us to really, like, our

742

campers, like, just little things, right?

743

It's like a, like, uh, put a

dishwashing sink here in this section

744

too or, like, you know, whatever,

like, small asks on our part that we

745

can do that really just makes it…

746

And then they come back for another stay.

747

They see we've, like, heard

their, you know, listened to their

748

input, and then we, like, um,

implemented it, so things like that.

749

And I'm kind of shocked also talking

to other owners and people that, um,

750

like, run other campgrounds and how

they, the follow-up, follow-up emails

751

and questions, and having your staff

at checkout, you know, go through,

752

"Oh, did you have a good stay?

753

Do you have any recommendations for us?"

754

Like, we have all of our staff asking

that, just that simple question,

755

and people will, like, beam.

756

Or if they were not satisfied

with something, it gives you the

757

opportunity to hear it, refund them

if, like, you have that ability to or

758

whatever or make it right, you know?

759

And, um, even just those

questions I find go so far, um,

760

for, you know, happy campers.

761

Brian Searl: Yeah, I mean, people just

wanna be heard a lot of the time, and

762

that's how they, they end up at your

Google review when they aren't heard.

763

When they send an email that doesn't get

answered, or they, they pick up the phone

764

and call and nobody listens, or they

can't reach the manager or whatever else.

765

So that's a, yeah, a great thing.

766

Tom Mason: Um, one, one other thing.

767

I, Kaleigh, I think you're right.

768

I mean, it's basic blocking and

tackling techniques that work well.

769

Um, the having someone…

770

We're trying to, uh, work at many of

our parks with knowledge of the area.

771

Kaleigh Day: Mm-hmm.

772

Tom Mason: Uh, people are coming there

from other parts of the, you know, further

773

away, so we wanna be knowledgeable of

what's going on in the market around

774

us and make those suggestions to them

at the front desk or while, you know,

775

while we're walking around the park.

776

We- we're tr- we're- we've focused on

that and have gotten good results and

777

good feedback from people about having

kind of carnal knowledge of what, what

778

events are going on in the market and

around us, and they've taken advantage

779

of that and enjoyed themselves.

780

Scott Foos: Mm-hmm.

781

One thing to, to add to that, Tom,

that we've, uh, we've experimented

782

at with one property so far this

season and hope to roll it out further

783

is hosting these planning sessions

together over coffee, uh, on Saturday

784

morning or over, uh, often over a

happy hour wine bar, um, Fri- Friday

785

afternoon, Thursday afternoon as well.

786

But we have our general manager

sit down at a large table with

787

guests and we talk abou- they talk

about things to do in the area.

788

And not only is it just then the, the

manager sharing local knowledge or

789

the staff sharing local knowledge, but

then you're building some community

790

with the different guests and they're

sharing ideas too between themselves.

791

Yeah.

792

Um, uh, it's not just one for one,

it's, i-i-it's, it's this, it's

793

this group kind of discussion.

794

Um, so yeah, I, I think, I, I think

that being able to, to really double

795

down on, uh, you know, Chris, you, you

brought this up, you know, the, the,

796

um, the individual brand and, and, and

knowledge of the pro- or ex- excuse me,

797

local experience of the property and

what makes it unique is, is so critical.

798

And, um, you know, I think that as

we look back, Brian, I think back

799

to what your comment was about how

the industry's continued to evolve,

800

I think it's really worth noting and

remembering that this industry is a lot

801

of things to a lot of different people.

802

It's so varied.

803

It's institutional, it's mom and pop,

it's RV, it's transient, extended

804

stay, seasonal, and even those

have various different categories.

805

And then there's the lodging

and glamping component.

806

Um, you know, it's, it's really difficult

to make, I think, high level, um, uh,

807

uh- topics or discussion points, I

guess, or, or edicts maybe, um, around

808

this industry when it is so nuanced

and it does impact so many people.

809

But I think remembering that these

properties often are enough in

810

themselves if you are creating that

culture and creating that experience

811

and playing into what makes that

property unique, um, is, is, is really

812

important and, and, and beneficial.

813

And then last thing along this line

that I, I wanted to, to talk about

814

was, um, you know, as you look at as

a, as an investor or someone that's

815

bought into this industry in the last

five years And you're looking at, at

816

how you can grow your revenue if your

rental revenue base isn't hitting the

817

thesis, um, that, that you'd expected.

818

Um, you know, we've, we've had success

in not having top-down or initiatives

819

that look good on paper, new amenities,

new programming offerings that look good

820

on paper that are generated by our team.

821

We're having more luck talking to the

managers at the properties and saying,

822

you know, "What is it that … What

are the friction points we're trying

823

to solve for, and how do we solve for

friction points in the guest experience

824

that can then translate into its

own specific business case, its own

825

ancillary revenue stream, its own P&L?"

826

Uh, an example of that is, um, at a

property in Colorado it's, that we manage,

827

it's very remote and, um, there, there's

really no place for people to get a drink

828

in the evening or to have, uh, food.

829

Um, there's no food offering

and it's too small to offer

830

a food and beverage service.

831

It wouldn't make sense.

832

Um, but we've solved that by,

uh, opening Color- what we

833

call Colorado's smallest bar.

834

Um, and, uh, I don't know if I'm proud of

that, but I, it's, it's kinda cool to say.

835

Um, and, uh, you know, we, we have

that open every night of the week,

836

and then we also partnered with a,

um, a, a really high-end, um, ran-

837

rancher and meat operation, um, in,

in the local area that has developed

838

custom kits that now we can offer.

839

So ne- neither of those things are

new, that's not the point, but it's

840

solving a specific need that's then

allowing guests to book that extra

841

night because they know that they can

solve for food and beverage without,

842

without, uh, burdening the operation.

843

Um, and it's also driving

additional ancillary revenue too.

844

Brian Searl: But see, I think that

all goes back to nuance, right?

845

Scott Foos: Yep.

846

Exactly.

847

Brian Searl: Like it all goes back

to what you were saying, is like I,

848

I think we have some nuance in this

industry, like you're, you're right.

849

But I also think there's a

850

opportunity to have more nuance.

851

I think we should get more fragmented

and more guest experience focused on

852

that nuance, like you're talking about

the smallest bar or the other little

853

things you're doing at those properties.

854

Because then I think you can take to

Jane's example, then I can think you

855

could take a 10,000 d- a $10,000 a year

site that you had to pay $100,000 a year,

856

a year to build, and you figure out how

to charge 15 or $20,000, or get, or get

857

15, $20,000 a year for that, and then

your payout, your payout is lower Instead

858

of just building a typical RV site.

859

Scott Foos: Yeah.

860

No, that's, that's absolutely right.

861

And there's always g- I mean, there

is a case for, um, you know, I, I,

862

I think, a- absolutely, and there's

a case for standard- standardization

863

and, you know, big brands to be in this

space, and they do, you know, some,

864

you know, some of those brand- I mean,

all the brands, the big brands, big

865

franchisers do a great job in this space.

866

Um, but you know, you look to,

like, the Jellystone model as, as

867

an example, um, and Jayne, you know,

you know that world better than me.

868

Um, you know, there, there is room

still to not have to be so niche

869

to the, to be able to help drive

additional ancillary revenues by, by

870

still creating the experience though.

871

It's not just slapping a brand on and

calling it, um, you know, calling it this

872

property and expecting revenue to come.

873

It's still dou- It's, it's even more of an

edict to double down on guest experience.

874

But, you know, there, there are ways

to do that at a, I guess, at a higher

875

level or a standardized level that

doesn't have to be so niche too.

876

So I think both, both ends can still work.

877

Zach Stoltenberg: I think you brought

up a really good point there, Scott,

878

too, that I think a lot of operators

look at some of those challenges, right,

879

of solving for FnB or amenities or

experiences, and they say, "You know,

880

we know we want to deliver a better

guest experience, but how do we do that

881

without investing a ton of capital?

882

How do we do that without

hiring somebody else?"

883

And, you know, that approach of,

of partnering with somebody else,

884

some other local operator, like,

you know, feed your guests to them.

885

Um, they're already doing that.

886

And, you know, take a,

take a 10% finder's fee.

887

Take a booking fee.

888

Take…

889

You know, there are ways that

you can improve guest experience

890

through those partnerships, and

I've, we, we preach that a lot.

891

We talk with people a lot, especially

when we go out to evaluate a site.

892

Part of the reason we always

do a site visit is just that.

893

We're looking at not just the

property, but what is in the area.

894

You know, if, if from that campground it's

a 30-minute drive to the nearest Dollar

895

General, then w- we need some onsite FnB.

896

We need a little store, a camp store.

897

We need to keep some, you know,

sundries, some, just the basics,

898

right, like eggs, milk, bread.

899

Uh, we don't need a full grocery bu-

but we need to have some stuff there

900

on site because if we ignore that,

if we don't do it, now that becomes

901

detrimental to that guest experience.

902

So- Mm-hmm … I think that's, that's

a really good approach, and I think

903

a lot of operators miss that, that

you don't have to do everything.

904

Just partner with somebody who's in

your area that's already doing it.

905

Brian Searl: All

906

right, let's spend the last…

907

Go ahead, sorry.

908

Please.

909

Kaleigh Day: Oh, no.

910

You go for it.

911

Brian Searl: No, I…

912

Say your comment and then

we're gonna end there.

913

No problem.

914

We're just gonna, uh, spend the last

few minutes just to having everybody

915

else ask questions to the other

guests instead of me being out.

916

So go ahead, please.

917

And then-

918

Kaleigh Day: Oh, yeah.

919

I was gonna say, yeah, like things

like, um, like food trucks or bike

920

rentals are really successful at

the other campgrounds in the area.

921

Um, like I know some

people source out their…

922

For where we are, surf lessons

and surf rentals, we do our own.

923

Um, but I know they also, um,

contract out or, um, whatever with

924

other companies, local companies.

925

So it's a great…

926

It keeps campers happy.

927

You're not worrying, you don't

have to worry about staffing

928

it, dealing with it, 'cause, you

know, especially out where we are.

929

Um, yeah, that's just my little comment.

930

Brian Searl: All right.

931

Well,

932

let's start with you Kaleigh,

since we're ending already.

933

So we typically end the show, we'll

spend the last few minutes just with

934

everybody asking each other questions.

935

So Kaleigh, do you have any questions

for any of our other guests?

936

Kaleigh Day: Oh, gosh.

937

Brian Searl: Any questions for them?

938

Kaleigh Day: Just putting

me on the spot, hey?

939

Um-

940

Brian Searl: Anything you wanna know.

941

Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

942

Uh, does any of you guys that

are running or like overseeing

943

multiple campgrounds, do you…

944

Are they all RV parks or do

you guys have like a blend of

945

some tent camping or, um…

946

Yeah, does anyone else

deal with tent campers?

947

Tom Mason: Yeah.

948

Well, well it's kind of a mix,

Kaleigh, for our portfolio.

949

We have tent sites at many

of our parks, but not all.

950

We have accommodations at many

of our parks, but not all.

951

All of our campground, all of our

parks that we manage have RV sites.

952

Yeah.

953

So I think that's…

954

Scott Foos: And I'm similar to, to Tom,

uh, but we do have a property that is

955

exclusively glamping, uh, lodging only.

956

Um, and then another that's, uh, almost

exclusively glamping and, and lodging.

957

Chris Lambert: Yeah, Kaleigh, same.

958

We have kind of a, a mix of parks that

have multiple different ways to stay.

959

Um, but uh, our, our best performing

park is one outside of Glacier

960

and there's a, I mean, a tent…

961

I, I can book the, the, a site

there, uh, whenever I want to.

962

So, um-

963

Kaleigh Day: I would love to-

964

Chris Lambert: That's

always soft to my heart.

965

I'm a backpacker by trade.

966

I'm a minimalist.

967

Yeah.

968

So, uh, you know, have a, have a

respect for the tent campers for sure.

969

Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

970

Brian Searl: All right, Chris, do you have

a question for any of our other guests?

971

Zach Stoltenberg: You know, in

our business it's probably about,

972

I used to say a 60/40 split.

973

Um, I mean, obviously we help

people reposition existing

974

assets or, or do new ground up.

975

On the RV side, there has not been a lot

of new ground up, um, just because of

976

all those challenges and the financing

model is, is very difficult to get

977

those projects, uh, funded right now.

978

Um, but I'd, I'd say we're, we're

seeing a, a big pivot on those

979

existing assets repositioning.

980

Um, but probably 60% of what we do is,

is glamping and boutique hotels, and that

981

seems to be staying very, very strong.

982

We're, we're still very

busy in those markets

983

Brian Searl: Chris, do you have

a question for one of the guests?

984

Chris Lambert: Um, yeah, I, I, I

think, you know, kind of going back

985

to just customer service across a

diverse portfolio, more of me asking

986

for help, but not that we need it,

but just for those that have been in

987

the industry long term, I mean, this,

it's been a big shift as I can imagine

988

as I've talked to Scott and others.

989

Um, what is your approach to,

to make sure that we're applying

990

level standardization but also

flexibility into that, that framework?

991

'Cause I think that's

the hardest solve, right?

992

Is when, when to build connection

versus going through the checklist.

993

Brian Searl: Directed to anybody

specific or you just naming them?

994

Chris Lambert: Uh, Jayne or Scott or

995

Jayne Cohen: So I think- Uh,

996

Scott Foos: well, I-- Go ahead, Jayne.

997

Jayne Cohen: Oh, go ahead, Scott.

998

No, go ahead.

999

Scott Foos: No, no, please.

00:54:41,083 --> 00:54:41,403

Uh- I

00:54:41,663 --> 00:54:41,893

Jayne Cohen: I think- I,

00:54:41,893 --> 00:54:45,923

Scott Foos: I was just gonna, uh,

just hi- high, very high level.

00:54:45,933 --> 00:54:53,713

We, we, um, we, we have a, a s- a standard

operating playbook with parameters that

00:54:54,163 --> 00:54:59,893

we ask our, our, our team members to, to

stay within, but part of that is also in

00:54:59,913 --> 00:55:04,853

training them in how to be flexible and

how to meet the guest where they are in

00:55:04,853 --> 00:55:06,983

those, in those difficult situations.

00:55:07,263 --> 00:55:10,193

Um, or if they need to go above

and beyond or want to go above

00:55:10,193 --> 00:55:14,093

and beyond for a guest, what does

that budget look like for, for

00:55:14,093 --> 00:55:16,033

those surprises, delights as well?

00:55:16,373 --> 00:55:20,753

Um, so it's not-- I mean, you--

I think you know that, uh, j- you

00:55:20,753 --> 00:55:23,323

know, better than anybody, I think,

from the restaurant world, too.

00:55:23,323 --> 00:55:25,323

I mean, it's not a science.

00:55:25,333 --> 00:55:27,883

Uh, it's definitely an art,

and it can be hard at scale.

00:55:30,243 --> 00:55:30,583

Brian Searl: Jayne?

00:55:33,493 --> 00:55:37,393

Jayne Cohen: Um, I f- I feel

like the campground industry

00:55:37,423 --> 00:55:42,513

business is never gonna be like

we make a widget business, right?

00:55:42,623 --> 00:55:46,083

It's, it's really

difficult to standardize.

00:55:46,083 --> 00:55:52,203

I know when I had, like, 13 of my own

parks, there are certain things that

00:55:52,203 --> 00:55:57,883

I did standardize, like my reservation

policies or my cancellation policies.

00:55:58,243 --> 00:56:02,223

So there were certain things that were

easy to do, and they a- it actually

00:56:02,223 --> 00:56:07,563

helped to do it because then I had the

same policies at all the parks, right?

00:56:08,063 --> 00:56:15,063

Um, but there's other things that were

just very specific to that property,

00:56:15,523 --> 00:56:23,173

and I always felt like it's all about

the staff and, and either enabling

00:56:23,183 --> 00:56:30,033

the staff to interpret your goals,

right, and your, your SOPs or your

00:56:30,033 --> 00:56:33,343

roles, or you disable them, right?

00:56:33,813 --> 00:56:40,113

And, um, I always felt like there's

really nothing that any of them

00:56:40,113 --> 00:56:42,653

could do that would really hurt us.

00:56:42,663 --> 00:56:47,503

So in other words, if someone gave money

back when, you know, the cancellation

00:56:47,503 --> 00:56:51,363

policy was clear they shouldn't have

given money back, okay, who cares?

00:56:51,463 --> 00:56:53,573

It's not gonna, it's not gonna kill us.

00:56:53,923 --> 00:56:58,363

Uh, if it's some- if, if it was something

that was correctable, I took that

00:56:58,363 --> 00:57:01,903

person aside, corrected, you know, or

had the manager correct them, right?

00:57:01,903 --> 00:57:07,763

But I tried to always have a philosophy

throughout the parks that, yeah,

00:57:07,763 --> 00:57:11,213

these are our standards, these are

our guidelines, but you know what?

00:57:11,253 --> 00:57:15,043

You guys gotta add some common

sense in what's happening right

00:57:15,043 --> 00:57:17,503

there, right then, now, and think.

00:57:17,503 --> 00:57:21,473

Use your brain, 'cause that's why

I hired you, and make a decision.

00:57:21,793 --> 00:57:28,183

And so again, it was about enabling

them because, you know, you're asking…

00:57:28,383 --> 00:57:32,163

Uh, I remember so many times

people asked me, "How, how

00:57:32,163 --> 00:57:33,713

do you find campground help?"

00:57:34,053 --> 00:57:38,893

And I looked into, like, people who had

restaurant experience because they were

00:57:38,903 --> 00:57:45,693

m- easier and more common, frankly, than

people with campground experience, right?

00:57:46,123 --> 00:57:48,823

But people in restaurant experience,

they deal with a lot of the same

00:57:48,843 --> 00:57:53,583

things, and they deal with a lot of

the long hours, and the weekends,

00:57:53,583 --> 00:57:57,433

and the nights, and that type of

stuff, so they, they're used to that.

00:57:58,163 --> 00:58:02,033

So I, I, I think coming from

the restaurant business is a,

00:58:02,133 --> 00:58:08,693

is very, the experience is very

applicable to a campground, running

00:58:08,693 --> 00:58:14,113

a campground, especially from

the guest services perspective

00:58:14,113 --> 00:58:14,363

Tom Mason: Yeah.

00:58:14,443 --> 00:58:20,133

On our, on our side, Chris, um,

there are policies and procedures,

00:58:20,133 --> 00:58:23,923

all that kind of, you know, word

speak, more on the accounting side.

00:58:24,583 --> 00:58:27,783

We wanna make sure we're doing the

accounting properly through all our

00:58:27,943 --> 00:58:32,973

parks, um, especially for ownership

groups that have multiple parks.

00:58:33,343 --> 00:58:36,493

We wanna be reporting in the

same fashion at all our parks for

00:58:36,493 --> 00:58:37,633

their groups, things like that.

00:58:38,253 --> 00:58:42,243

But on the, on the customer service

side, it's really, you know, to Jayne

00:58:42,243 --> 00:58:44,193

and Scott's point, it's empowerment.

00:58:44,503 --> 00:58:45,593

We're not there.

00:58:46,043 --> 00:58:47,253

We, you know, Ja-

00:58:50,763 --> 00:58:51,703

Brian Searl: Oh, did we lose Tom?

00:58:52,423 --> 00:58:52,753

Kaleigh Day: Oh, no.

00:58:52,813 --> 00:58:53,043

Jayne Cohen: Hmm.

00:58:54,253 --> 00:58:54,883

Brian Searl: Maybe we lost Tom.

00:58:55,013 --> 00:58:55,343

Okay.

00:58:55,343 --> 00:58:57,003

Um, Scott, you haven't

been here in a while.

00:58:57,003 --> 00:58:57,863

Ask- oh, he's back.

00:58:57,863 --> 00:58:58,253

Yeah.

00:58:58,473 --> 00:58:58,713

Never mind.

00:58:59,883 --> 00:59:00,193

Go ahead, Tom.

00:59:00,203 --> 00:59:00,223

Yeah.

00:59:00,363 --> 00:59:01,393

You cut out for a minute.

00:59:01,393 --> 00:59:03,893

Tom Mason: No, uh, just that

we pay you to make decisions,

00:59:03,893 --> 00:59:05,273

and you're right there, so…

00:59:05,593 --> 00:59:08,673

And to Jayne's point, they really

can't do too much damage to

00:59:08,673 --> 00:59:10,493

whatever they give away, so…

00:59:11,753 --> 00:59:13,063

Brian Searl: Scott, I was gonna

say, do you have a, do you have

00:59:13,063 --> 00:59:14,193

a question next for anybody?

00:59:14,193 --> 00:59:18,433

Scott Foos: I, I think if, if I can

direct it at, at one individual person,

00:59:18,433 --> 00:59:21,773

just because I have not heard the story,

and not to put you on the spot, Kaleigh,

00:59:22,123 --> 00:59:24,953

how did you get into the business?

00:59:24,953 --> 00:59:26,783

How, how did you, how did you land here?

00:59:27,183 --> 00:59:27,753

Kaleigh Day: Oh, yeah.

00:59:27,883 --> 00:59:33,573

Uh, we were honeymooning on Vancouver

Island, and, uh, we happened to go and

00:59:33,613 --> 00:59:38,143

stay at Surf Junction Campground, and

we found out it was for sale, and this

00:59:38,143 --> 00:59:41,063

00:59:41,363 --> 00:59:45,353

The area had been starting to get

really busy, 'cause Tofin- I don't

00:59:45,353 --> 00:59:46,013

know if you guys have heard of Tofino-

00:59:46,013 --> 00:59:46,683

Scott Foos: Mm-hmm.

00:59:47,383 --> 00:59:48,933

Kaleigh Day: Yeah … as,

like, a destination place.

00:59:49,083 --> 00:59:53,213

Uh, so we stayed at the campground,

and we saw the little, "Uh, calm that

00:59:53,213 --> 00:59:56,413

you can live there," and we're like,

"Whoa, this is, like, nice," you know?

00:59:56,693 --> 00:59:57,033

But it was…

00:59:57,103 --> 00:59:57,863

You know, we were young.

00:59:58,013 --> 01:00:03,393

And, um, anyways, we, uh, decided to

go for it, so we bought it, and then

01:00:04,173 --> 01:00:05,753

we've since repurchased the land behind.

01:00:05,763 --> 01:00:09,833

We've expanded, added amenities,

and we've, you know, and then

01:00:09,843 --> 01:00:11,253

here we are, like, 14 years later.

01:00:12,303 --> 01:00:12,663

Scott Foos: Awesome.

01:00:13,863 --> 01:00:14,103

Kaleigh Day: Yeah.

01:00:14,253 --> 01:00:14,603

Scott Foos: That's awesome.

01:00:14,603 --> 01:00:14,663

Thank you.

01:00:14,663 --> 01:00:17,503

Brian Searl: Zach, do

you have any questions?

01:00:20,353 --> 01:00:21,503

Zach Stoltenberg: Um.

01:00:25,973 --> 01:00:26,793

Let me think about it.

01:00:28,143 --> 01:00:29,403

I know we're trying to wrap up.

01:00:30,133 --> 01:00:30,883

Um-

01:00:31,243 --> 01:00:33,096

Brian Searl: Tom, you go, and

then Zach we’ll come back to you.

01:00:33,096 --> 01:00:35,133

And then if anybody needs to drop

off, I know we're a minute or two

01:00:35,133 --> 01:00:37,223

late, so please feel free to drop

off and go to other commitments.

01:00:37,223 --> 01:00:37,433

Tom Mason: Yeah.

01:00:37,433 --> 01:00:39,183

I, I'll ask Jayne a question.

01:00:39,463 --> 01:00:40,393

What's your, uh…

01:00:40,473 --> 01:00:43,263

What do you see going forward

on the development side?

01:00:43,263 --> 01:00:44,533

How's, how's your pipeline?

01:00:44,533 --> 01:00:47,823

Not to give away trade secrets,

but what, how's the activity there?

01:00:51,593 --> 01:00:54,773

Jayne Cohen: Um, development

is really tough, right?

01:00:54,963 --> 01:00:56,843

Right now development is tough.

01:00:57,333 --> 01:01:03,433

Um, I have just recently saw our

feasibility studies slow down.

01:01:04,323 --> 01:01:10,883

Um, but, but going, uh, and I mean, like,

recently, like the past, like, couple

01:01:10,883 --> 01:01:16,863

of weeks, we've been really busy still

with folks wanting to do feasibility

01:01:16,873 --> 01:01:19,543

studies and wanting, uh, to study it.

01:01:19,993 --> 01:01:22,743

But, but development is just super tough.

01:01:23,153 --> 01:01:28,463

When folks come to me and wanna develop

their first campground, uh, one of the

01:01:28,463 --> 01:01:32,753

first questions I ask them, Tom, is,

"Have you considered an acquisition?"

01:01:33,613 --> 01:01:36,883

Because, you know, you got…

01:01:37,153 --> 01:01:40,213

I always say, and I don't even

know if it's politically correct

01:01:40,213 --> 01:01:43,283

anymore, but I always say,

"Development is not for sissies."

01:01:43,773 --> 01:01:49,223

I mean, there is just one hurdle,

one challenge after the other.

01:01:49,243 --> 01:01:55,173

It doesn't end, and, um, getting

to that finish line is tough.

01:01:55,213 --> 01:01:58,883

And when you do get to that finish

line, you don't have any customers.

01:01:58,883 --> 01:02:00,083

You don't have a cash flow.

01:02:00,603 --> 01:02:07,813

So an acquisition is a little bit easier,

and I always sa- say to the new developer,

01:02:07,813 --> 01:02:13,133

I say, "Maybe try an acquisition first,

and, uh, work on a development next."

01:02:13,533 --> 01:02:19,803

But I think development is, I don't think

it's dead, but I, I only f- I think it's

01:02:19,813 --> 01:02:23,083

very slow, and it's only for some people.

01:02:23,523 --> 01:02:23,653

Tom Mason: Okay.

01:02:24,883 --> 01:02:25,203

Thanks.

01:02:25,753 --> 01:02:26,563

Jayne Cohen: What do you think?

01:02:27,253 --> 01:02:28,103

Tom Mason: Oh, well, yeah.

01:02:28,233 --> 01:02:30,713

I, that sounds about what

I would have expected.

01:02:31,093 --> 01:02:32,643

I have to jump off, Brian.

01:02:32,643 --> 01:02:33,743

I got a call waiting.

01:02:34,713 --> 01:02:34,933

Brian Searl: All right, Tom- So

01:02:34,933 --> 01:02:35,433

Tom Mason: thank you

01:02:35,433 --> 01:02:35,963

… Brian Searl: before you go real quick-

01:02:35,963 --> 01:02:36,463

Tom Mason: I'll see you next one

01:02:36,463 --> 01:02:37,733

Brian Searl: tell them where they

can, tell them where they can find out

01:02:37,733 --> 01:02:38,873

more about IVEE Group before you go.

01:02:40,413 --> 01:02:40,863

Tom Mason: I will.

01:02:40,873 --> 01:02:41,433

Thank you.

01:02:42,513 --> 01:02:42,823

Brian Searl: Okay.

01:02:42,933 --> 01:02:43,693

Don't do that then.

01:02:43,713 --> 01:02:45,903

All right, I was gonna say, give

out your website if you want.

01:02:47,413 --> 01:02:49,063

Tom Mason: Oh, uh, ivee.com.

01:02:49,563 --> 01:02:49,833

So-

01:02:49,833 --> 01:02:50,158

Brian Searl: Okay.

01:02:50,158 --> 01:02:50,483

Perfect.

01:02:50,483 --> 01:02:50,973

Thanks, Tom.

01:02:51,123 --> 01:02:51,423

Tom Mason: Thank you.

01:02:51,923 --> 01:02:52,033

Brian Searl: I appreciate it.

01:02:52,033 --> 01:02:53,693

Zach, do you have a one

final question for us?

01:02:55,073 --> 01:02:55,543

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah.

01:02:55,613 --> 01:02:57,813

Um, this may be for Chris and for Scott.

01:02:57,893 --> 01:03:06,313

Um, so recently, uh, we bid working

on a project, and this would be our

01:03:06,313 --> 01:03:14,643

third project within about a, I'm gonna

say a 20-mile radius of one location.

01:03:15,183 --> 01:03:20,893

Um, w- what are your thoughts

on, like, market saturation?

01:03:21,323 --> 01:03:24,623

I mean, obviously there's, you know,

some parts of the country that do better

01:03:24,623 --> 01:03:27,963

and, uh, you know, if you'd asked me

three years ago, I would've said, "Yeah,

01:03:27,963 --> 01:03:29,563

the rising tide gathers all ships.

01:03:29,563 --> 01:03:31,753

The more we have in an area,

the better they all do."

01:03:32,173 --> 01:03:38,883

Um, w- what are your thoughts today

on, like, that market saturation?

01:03:38,893 --> 01:03:46,393

Like, how, how many campgrounds, resorts

can one area support, and, and what

01:03:46,393 --> 01:03:49,893

are, what are some of the challenges

that come up on the management side

01:03:49,893 --> 01:03:52,623

when you have like two, three parks

that are all in the same market?

01:03:54,903 --> 01:03:56,343

Scott Foos: Chris, you wanna take that?

01:03:57,323 --> 01:03:57,933

Chris Lambert: Yeah, I can.

01:03:57,963 --> 01:03:59,920

I mean, we have some,

some experience in that.

01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:01,333

I, I think it goes back to…

01:04:01,783 --> 01:04:04,943

and I know this is a softball

answer, but you have to understand

01:04:04,943 --> 01:04:06,093

what the target guest is.

01:04:06,093 --> 01:04:06,713

'Cause what…

01:04:07,133 --> 01:04:10,163

You know, if you have two guests or,

or two parks that are very similar,

01:04:10,183 --> 01:04:13,993

like highly transient particular,

but if, if they're pretty much the

01:04:13,993 --> 01:04:16,413

same park, well, then you might

be cannibalizing sales, right?

01:04:16,413 --> 01:04:19,203

But if you have- Right … where

we've found some success is where

01:04:19,203 --> 01:04:22,663

we have maybe a, a more transient

park and then one m- more extended

01:04:22,663 --> 01:04:24,673

stay that would kind of, you know…

01:04:24,683 --> 01:04:27,953

Or, or different seasons

or different amenities, um,

01:04:27,963 --> 01:04:29,103

with different price points.