In the July 1, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl gathered a diverse panel of industry experts to discuss the latest macroeconomic trends, generational shifts, and operational strategies in the outdoor hospitality sector. The panel included recurring guests Scott Bahr of Cairn Consulting Group, Simon Neal of CampMap, and Phil Ingrassia of the RVDA, alongside special guests Lori Severson and Christina (Tina) Severson from Severson & Associates, and Ward Wijngaert from the European franchise Yelloh! Village.

Phil Ingrassia opened the industry discussion by sharing revised projections for US RV shipments in 2024. Acknowledging that macroeconomic factors like gas prices, global conflicts, and wavering consumer sentiment have created a "perfect storm," he noted that the industry expects to move around 310,000 units this year, down from earlier estimates of 350,000. However, he highlighted a silver lining in the used RV market, where sales and wholesale values remain strong, suggesting that consumer demand still exists but is currently constrained by affordability, with a wider rebound anticipated around 2027.

Scott Bahr expanded on this consumer behavior, noting that while many potential buyers have hit pause on their plans, their fundamental intent to travel and camp remains intact. Drawing from a recent large-scale focus group of RVers, Scott observed that today's consumers are highly discriminating about value; they want absolute transparency regarding what they are paying for, including a clear understanding of what amenities they are not getting. He emphasized that minimizing the perceived risk of booking an unknown campsite is becoming critical for operators.

Offering a highly optimistic contrast from across the Atlantic, Simon Neal shared recent data indicating a booming summer for the European outdoor hospitality market. He highlighted that Croatia saw a 5% increase in arrivals and a 7% jump in overnight stays between January and May, while the Spanish Federation of Campsites is projecting a record-breaking summer with occupancy rates nearing 90%. Simon suggested this surge might be driven by European travelers opting to stay closer to home and embracing glamping accommodations over long-haul flights.

Bringing the focus back to the American Midwest, Lori Severson shared on-the-ground insights from her own Wisconsin campground. She noted a distinct trend toward last-minute bookings and emphasized that while guests are still willing to spend money, their expectations for a premier, high-quality experience have skyrocketed. Lori pointed out that seasonal camping remains a strong financial anchor, but operators can no longer afford to be complacent; they must actively deliver unique themed weekends and exceptional guest services to justify their rates.

This led to a candid conversation between Brian Searl and Lori Severson about the vital alignment between a park's marketing claims and its actual operational delivery. Lori shared a personal anecdote about a disappointing theme park visit where a highly advertised "giant dinosaur" turned out to be shorter than a seven-year-old child, illustrating how broken expectations can permanently ruin a guest's perception. Both agreed that the old industry adage of "fake it till you make it" is a dangerous strategy in an era of hyper-informed consumers.

The panel then shifted to the evolving demographics of campers, with Scott Bahr and Phil Ingrassia discussing the unique preferences of younger generations. Scott noted that Gen Z campers prefer self-directed experiences and deeper, smaller-scale socialization compared to the highly communal nature of older generations. Phil added that this demographic shift is directly influencing RV manufacturing, evidenced by the massive explosion in popularity of expensive, highly mobile van campers over traditional, bulky Class A motorhomes.

Providing an international perspective on campground design, Ward Wijngaert discussed how Yelloh! Village is adapting its properties. Despite a recent industry trend of over-saturating parks with fixed rental accommodations, Ward noted that his company is now actively recovering land to offer traditional RV pitches, as they require less investment and maintenance. However, to meet rising consumer expectations, they are aggressively "premiumizing" these sites by adding luxury features like private sanitaries, personal BBQs, and sometimes even private swimming pools right on the pitch.

This concept of premiumization resonated strongly with the American panelists, prompting a discussion on the future of "VIP sites." Lori Severson argued that even guests arriving in compact van campers desire spacious, private, and well-appointed outdoor areas, rather than simply being squeezed into smaller footprints. Scott Bahr eloquently coined the term "boutique sites" to describe this emerging trend, suggesting that the industry should move away from generic, massive pull-throughs and instead design highly customized, experience-forward spaces tailored to specific RV types and guest preferences.

The conversation eventually turned to the intersection of technology and reputation management, sparked by a concern from Phil Ingrassia regarding how AI search overviews might unfairly evaluate small RV dealerships based purely on review volume. Christina Severson responded by stressing the importance of proactive reputation management, advocating for industry-wide education on maintaining accurate online information and training staff to actively solicit positive reviews during the checkout process to feed these AI algorithms effectively.

Wrapping up the episode, the panel briefly touched on the future of towing and electric vehicles, with Scott Bahr mentioning a new 1,100-mile EV battery from Toyota and Phil Ingrassia noting the ongoing towing capacity struggles of current electric trucks. The show concluded with final thoughts and event plugs, reinforcing the critical need for industry professionals to continuously adapt to both technological advancements and shifting consumer demands.

Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

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My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks

and Modern Campground, excited to be back

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here for a first week of July episode.

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It's Canada Day, it's a holiday for

me, but I'm here working with you

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guys because where else would I be?

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On a great podcast with great guests

and great things to talk about.

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Excited to be back here for July

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from an American holiday as well.

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So we'll get some updates on that.

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So we've got our recurring

guests here, Scott Bahr.

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I'll quickly let you introduce

yourself in a second, Scott.

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Simon Neal and Phil Ingrassia.

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And then we got special guests, Tina

Severson and Lori Severson, who are

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both, got their hands in all kinds of

things around the industry as always.

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And then we've got Ward as well.

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So let's just go around the room and

briefly just introduce everybody.

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We're going to start with

our recurring guest, Scott.

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Go ahead.

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Scott Bahr: Scott Bahr,

Cairn Consulting Group.

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We're market research and analysis.

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Brian Searl: Whoever wants to

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go next.

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Feel free to.

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Phil Ingrassia: I'm Phil Ingrassia,

President RV Dealers Association US.

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Brian Searl: Welcome, Phil.

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Simon?

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Simon Neal: yeah, Simon,

founder and CEO of Campmap.

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We help outdoor hospitality businesses

and groups improve marketing and guest

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experience with premium digital maps.

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Brian Searl: Welcome back, Simon.

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Appreciate you.

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Tina and Lori?

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Lori Severson: Tina, I'll let you go first

and I'll fill in where you leave off.

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Christina Severson: Okay.

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So Lori and I are with

Severson and Associates.

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We're an association management

company that oversees the Wisconsin

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Association of Campground Owners.

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KOA Owners Association, and then we also

have the Campground Owners Expo show

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that we put on ourselves in Branson.

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So basically all industry related.

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And then when Lori is, not busy and

hanging out and doing nothing, she's also

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running her own campground in Wisconsin.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Welcome to both of you.

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Lori, do you have anything to add?

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Lori Severson: No, I don't think so.

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Except for we also run the

Gilbert Brown Foundation.

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So he's a former Green Bay

Packer player and so that's

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what we do in our spare time.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Welcome both of you.

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And last but not least, Ward.

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Can we hear you, Ward?

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I don't know if it's me or if

it's Ward, but everybody else

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looks like they're moving except

Ward, yeah, he's a little frozen.

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Okay, cool.

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So generally how we do this is we'll

typically start the show and we'll say

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to our recurring guests Simon, Scott,

and Phil, is there anything that you guys

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feel has come across your desk since the

last time we were all on a show together?

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I believe at the beginning of June.

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Anything that's come across your desk

that you think is important that we

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should be talking about in the industry?

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Phil Ingrassia: we had some for US RV

shipments and sales, we've got some

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new, revised 2024 prognostications

that came out last month.

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And, the industry, it's no secret

in the US has been pretty flat to

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down single digits throughout 2024.

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And that pattern is going to

catch up with us through the year.

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It looks like we're going to

be right around 310,000 units.

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Earlier this year, they

were projecting 350,000.

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But the war, gas prices, consumer

sentiment, it's been a perfect

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storm to lower those projections

through the end of the year.

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So that's where we are now.

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I was working on something on used

units for our membership magazine

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and I did, there, there is some

good news in the used sector.

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Both on the wholesale side

and the and the sales side.

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It's driving affordability

issues and things like that.

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So for RV dealers used

sales are holding up.

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New are probably going to be down

probably 10, 10 percent for the year.

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Brian Searl: And just for our audience

to set the expectation, like this is

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not a problem with the RV industry.

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This is a macroeconomic picture, right?

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Everything is in weird

shape right now, right?

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Phil Ingrassia: absolutely.

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It's consumer sentiment is what

the industry has traditionally

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followed as far as new unit sales go.

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And in the US consumer sentiment numbers

they're creeping back up a little bit with

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some of the war news that has come out.

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But still not ideal.

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And of course, we're missing a big chunk

of the season in May and June where

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typically we do a higher number of sales.

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So right now they're not thinking

that we're going to be able to

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pick it up enough in the third

and fourth quarter of the year.

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Brian Searl: Scott, what do you

think about when you look at data?

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Like you're obviously

the big data guy, right?

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What do you think about when you look

at some of the different data, both

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from a macroeconomic picture and from RV

industry and put all of it put together?

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Take it wherever you want.

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Scott Bahr: Yeah, I think, to build

on what Phil was just saying, that

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we did, the early season stuff when

people are making a lot of their plans,

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at least their mindset gets in that

mode during that time, even if they

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don't even lock down their plans.

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100 percent their mind

is taking them somewhere.

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Their intent sometimes is taking

them in the direction whether it's

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buying an RV or taking a trip.

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And it felt like everybody's

minds were put on pause for a bit.

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And, I wonder, and, hopefully we'll have

some research coming out soon that we

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can verify or not some of this, is that I

wonder what the difference will be between

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the set of consumers who would originally,

who were originally planning on purchasing

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an RV, who said, ah, I'm going to wait.

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Will they continue?

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Will they still do that?

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And what percent of the business is more

spontaneous where someone doesn't plan

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well in advance and they just one day get

up and say, ah, I'm going to buy an RV.

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Now I know that's probably not huge, and

Phil, maybe you know the answer to that.

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I as I was saying that, I

wished I had actually measured

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that in one of my studies.

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But it does make me wonder about that.

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Will there be pent up demand?

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Will people, or will they wait

till the next cycle of next year?

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Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, our studies

have shown that typically, because

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it's a discretionary purchase,

an RV, people take their time.

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They're, it's not like a car where

it's coming off lease or you're

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looking at a big repair bill.

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Typically people will, spend

three to six months looking

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before they make that purchase.

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And of course with some of the interest

rate issues, the war issues, the gas price

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issues, all that has put things on hold.

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I will say, historically, used sales

are showing that there is demand there,

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but it's an affordability factor.

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So used values are holding up.

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That typically portends that new

sales will, will catch up eventually.

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So we will see a bump in

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Because it's just, I think what Scott's

getting at is there's a lot of people

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just on the sidelines right now.

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Brian Searl: Sorry for any background

noise if you guys can hear it.

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Apparently my lawn care people decided

to come right during the show and

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are trimming right outside my window.

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That's fun.

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Just garbage trucks last week and

I can't, I just can't sit outside.

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It's the life of me.

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So what do we think Phil

is the outlook here?

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Like I know there's lots of things that

could change and there are things that

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we are hopeful that will change, right?

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Like maybe the war is winding down.

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Depends on what day I guess

you look at the headlines.

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But maybe the war is winding down.

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But generally speaking, if you

take out the war out of everything

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else, are we optimistic for the way

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I know this is very early and

you really don't have an idea,

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but just your general gut.

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Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, typically

what we'll see is after, this is

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an off-year election, so we'll have

the election kind of get settled.

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That should tee us up for a better 2027.

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It's just really hard to know

right now because, the war

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news changes sometimes daily.

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And it has throughout the

spring and early summer.

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And we just need some consistency in

some of these macroeconomic things that

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are, buffeting us a little bit right now.

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But I think in general when you look at

what Thor Industries is saying, Winnebago

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and their public statements, Camping

World, some of the other big companies

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they are looking for a rebound in 2027.

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Brian Searl: Okay, good.

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We'll continue to be hopeful then.

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Welcome back, Ward.

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Hopefully you can hear us now.

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Can you hear us?

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All

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right, maybe Ward can't hear us.

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Can't hear anything yet.

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Simon or Scott, did you have anything on

your minds that you wanted to talk about?

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Simon Neal: Yeah, I have a couple

of articles I read this last week

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that are really promising actually.

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So there's two sets of data that came

in, one for Croatia and one for Spain.

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So the Croatian one is general hotels

and outdoor hospitality combined.

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But the results from January to

May are actually up 5 percent

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in total arrivals from last year

and 7 percent in overnight stays.

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So this is I don't think two months

ago anybody would have said that,

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but it's really coming strong

now and it's looking positive.

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And then the Spanish one

is even better actually.

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This is focused completely

on outdoor hospitality.

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The data's come from the Spanish

Federation of Campsites and they're

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indicating a record-breaking summer.

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So occupancy rates close to 90% with

August almost full capacity for kind of

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glamping, bungalow style accommodation,

which is proving really popular.

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So this is great news, a great signal.

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And they're actually seeing an increase

of 10 percent in advanced bookings.

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So again, like a few months ago,

I think none of this was expected.

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It's coming in strong now.

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People are planning for the summer,

planning for the holidays, and

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this nice weather is probably

helping at the same time.

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So that's two pretty good signals

at least from Europe that, the

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summer is actually going to be

pretty positive for the industry.

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Brian Searl: Do you have a sense, or

is there any data that it might be

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just because Europeans are staying

closer to home in Europe this summer?

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Because I know the same thing is

happening in Canada, that's why I ask.

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Like our industry is doing pretty

well this summer, all data points that

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we've heard, but that's also because

they're they're not going to the United

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States like they were in the past.

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Simon Neal: Yeah, I think it's interesting

that for sure, there's another study on

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the long haul travel that's flat or down.

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So I think you can have the regular

customers from Europe who are going

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camping as usual, but then you're

probably having this other part of the

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sector who'd normally fly away, who are

now going glamping at the same resorts,

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but they're going into the cabins,

they're going into the mobile homes.

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So that could be it.

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I don't have the figures to back

it up, but that's probably a pretty

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good assessment of that push.

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Brian Searl: And is the heat

impacting anything in Europe?

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Simon Neal: I don't know.

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Ward he mentioned they were getting some

feedback from their customers, but for

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sure people are just not used to it.

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It's a bit of a struggle

sometimes, but I don't think it

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would impact travel directly.

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It's just a bit of a hardship.

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Brian Searl: I don't know

what country this is from.

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I saw a video on X that somebody shared.

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I wasn't actively looking for it, but a

video of people hanging out in IKEA for

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the air conditioning in Europe somewhere.

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I can't remember what country it was.

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Simon Neal: Yeah, they're

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all just lounging around IKEA.

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Because air conditioning, for those of

you who don't know, is not as big in

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Europe as it is in the United States.

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Yeah.

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Especially Northern

Europe, it's very rare.

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So everybody really struggles when

the temperature goes up a bit.

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Brian Searl: Yeah.

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Do we have Ward back yet or no?

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Can you hear us, Ward?

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Or can we hear you?

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I guess is the better question.

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Not yet.

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Okay.

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Ward Wijngaert: [inaudible]

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Brian Searl: I think he's frozen.

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Okay.

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Lori and Tina, what are you

guys seeing this summer so far?

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I guess let's start with Lori

because you own your own campground.

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Lori Severson: I do.

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I would say that our campers

are definitely booking later.

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A lot of last minute bookings.

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And I think the main thing is that they

really expect that premier experience.

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They're looking for, they're

looking at reviews a lot closer.

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They're looking at feedback from

other campers, their friends,

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family, that kind of thing.

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And then I think it's important for

campground owners to make sure that

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we're using every square inch of

revenue base so that we can offer

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them what they might like to do.

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They do tend to be spending

more once you get them here.

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So that's I think that's

a big piece of the puzzle.

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Brian Searl: Okay, so all things

are good at Lori's campground.

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Is what we're hearing.

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Lori Severson: They are.

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And pretty much in Wisconsin.

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Brian Searl: Okay, that

was my follow up question.

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So you already knew,

you're too smart for me.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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And is there no differences?

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Like what we're hearing in some of the

other industry on a macro level, obviously

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there are micro pockets that are doing

wonderful in the United States, we've

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got a lot of clients who are up seven,

eight percent, we've got some that are

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flat, we've got some that are down.

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But mostly the long term stays are

solid or even up in a lot of places.

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And then the short term

transients are a little iffy.

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So you're not seeing any of that?

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Pretty much holding

steady in Wisconsin or?

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Lori Severson: I think the big thing

is the booking part of it, is where

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they are booking way more last minute.

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We had definitely had a soft

June just weather based.

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But boy, it picked up towards the end and

I think that really made a difference.

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And like I said the big thing was not

necessarily just overnight camping

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per se, but I think the spending

habits once they get here they

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seemed like they still had the money

to spend and wanted to spend it.

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The seasonal camping I think

is still going very strong.

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We haven't seen a lot of a lot

of recession in that at all.

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But I do think that all of a sudden

especially in Wisconsin, everybody

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perked up and said, oh, you know

what, I think I maybe better do some

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shows this winter and I better, start

putting my marketing back together

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and some of those kinds of things.

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Where we may have had it, I'm

not going to say easy, but we may

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have had it simpler, if you will.

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Now I believe you have to

work at it a little bit.

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You have to make sure that you

have all your ducks in a row and

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that you are definitely getting

your themed weekends out there,

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what makes you different out there.

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You're really working to attract

that customer and you're making

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sure that guest experience is great.

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I think any of the campgrounds that are

struggling, I would tell you that is the

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biggest thing that we see is that guest

experience is lacking once they get there.

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And boy does that make a

difference in the world.

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It, people just don't want

to spend spend top dollar for

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the same experience.

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They want to be, not even in,

but the same thing that they

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get everywhere else, right?

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Something different needs to be…

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yep.

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What's attracting them?

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Brian Searl: Yeah,

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it's for everybody, right?

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Scott, you and I have had

conversations about this.

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Like generally, what

is your thought, Scott?

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I know you can touch on experiences,

but also the, we, you and I have had

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conversations about gas prices going

up, maybe it's a boom for our industry.

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There's a certain period where

it might not be a boom for our

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industry and it's negative.

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Now gas prices have fallen, but

you also, you and I have talked

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about maybe it's too late for the

consumer to change their behavior.

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But maybe we're wrong and maybe

it's going better than we thought

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about, at least in Wisconsin, right?

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Based on Lori's anecdotes.

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So what do you think of all that?

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Scott Bahr: I feel like, the as

we've talked about for the last few

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months is that the intent is there.

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We see that.

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We don't see this huge drop off.

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It's almost like you would expect to see

people saying, yeah, I'm just not into

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it or it's I'm just not going to go.

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It, it to me it feels if they

can get out, if they can make

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it they're going to do it.

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I feel what Lori was just talking

about in terms of the experience too,

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is they're willing to pay as long

as what they get matches the price.

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It's they just need a match.

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It's they want to get, I just,

I did a talk a couple weeks ago

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and I had called it a 200 person

focus group with all RVers.

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And the, it ended up being like, I don't

know, an old Phil Donahue show where

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I was walking around with a microphone

and everybody was offering feedback

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and just solving each other's problems.

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But what I heard was a lot of optimism

in the room, but they kept going back

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to, it's like, as one woman said that I

really liked what she said, she goes, I

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just want to know what I'm paying for,

but I also want to know I don't want to

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know exactly what I'm getting, I want

to know what I'm not getting as well.

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And, I like how she

flipped that a little bit.

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And that seemed to be, there are a

lot of heads nodding in the room,

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a lot of people agreeing with that.

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So that's what they're looking for.

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They're going to look at that

price point and then they're going

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to find a place that matches that

price point more than anything.

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It, it seems to me that, the

consumer, the guest is being a

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little bit more discriminating.

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Yeah.

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These days.

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And again, you mentioned earlier

the idea of reading more reviews.

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The reviews are big.

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The pictures, everybody, a lot of

them are skeptical of pictures now.

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It's getting that way.

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Yeah.

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But there's a little skepticism

there just on the pictures anyway.

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But that just the access to

information and what they have.

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And so they feel like they're

making better decisions.

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The industry overall, I feel is, and

we've done a bunch of research on

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this too, the idea of risk in booking.

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That we've seen a decline in that.

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That the guest, the person booking

it has has less risk when they're

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trying to book their campsite.

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And I know that there's a lot of

talk about that in, especially

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in camping, that it is more

risky than booking a hotel room.

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Yeah.

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But three times as risky.

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And yet the…

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Brian Searl: Just to clarify,

because it's not standardized,

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is what you're talking about.

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Scott Bahr: exactly.

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Correct.

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Exactly.

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The guest sometimes doesn't,

they're not 100 percent sure.

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They, if they book a Hilton,

a room at the Hilton, they

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pretty much know what they get.

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A room at a place they've or a campsite

at a place they've never been, they,

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there's a little bit of trepidation there.

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But, again we're seeing the desire,

the weather obviously, I'm in Maine

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and it's our heat index is over 100,

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maybe tomorrow.

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But if you're in Boston, it's even worse.

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So we've actually seen a bigger volume

or in the area where I'm sitting right

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now, already this week, people started

leaving the Boston area to come up here.

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I just, I stay in contact with the

local campgrounds and businesses

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just to see how they're doing.

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And it's we've already seen an uptick

in this area because, oh, people are

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coming up to go to the lakes and the

rivers and everything to cool down.

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So for us, it's been a bit of a benefit.

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I think once we hit the

weekend, it'll be even better,

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especially for the 4th of July.

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Lori Severson: and Brian,

don't get me wrong.

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It's definitely good operators have to

have their heads on straight, for sure.

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And it really does the

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environment is not conducive

to tired operators.

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Sometimes operators that don't

maybe look at their information on a

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daily or weekly basis kind of thing.

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It's, I think it's very important

to recognize that some of how your

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numbers look has got to do with you.

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Scott Bahr: Sure, yeah.

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As an individual owner.

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And also your marketing too, right?

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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to talk over you.

396

Lori Severson: No, 100%.

397

No, 100%, Brian.

398

And that's what I was getting at.

399

You have to really, I feel like you,

you have to really feel that like in

400

the beginning, like you had to start

this in January and say, oh boy,

401

this is going to be a tougher year.

402

We've got some of these things.

403

And our themes have to be more, our

theme weekends have to be more over the

404

top than they have been in the past.

405

And I think there was a small

period of time when people thought

406

after COVID especially owners,

they were like, oh, okay, hey,

407

maybe this works out just great.

408

We can just have them 10 feet

apart and let them do their own

409

thing and life will be good.

410

That is not how it works.

411

They want that experience.

412

They don't mind paying, but

they want a high-end experience.

413

And the payoff, the win or lose is

when you look at that little kid's

414

face and they're looking up at mom or

dad or grandma and grandpa and they're

415

giving them that smile of approval.

416

That's what it takes.

417

Once you get that smile and

that nod, that's your payback.

418

That says, okay, we made it.

419

We've got it.

420

Brian Searl: and there's two

sides here to marketing, right?

421

Scott and I were going to talk about this

on Outlier and then we ended up deciding

422

to cancel today's show because we both

are too busy and it's a holiday for me.

423

So we're going to do it next week.

424

We're going to do a deep

dive into marketing.

425

And one of the things that I've wanted

to talk about for a while is that

426

disconnect between I consider adding

theme weekends and stuff like that

427

part of the operational experience

that can lead into and inform

428

your marketing to make it better.

429

But what you're doing is improving

the on-the-ground experience

430

that makes your marketing better

because you're telling the truth.

431

Whereas I feel like there's a lot

of owners who are just jumping into

432

marketing maybe for the first time

headfirst thinking just get me business.

433

And then what ends up happening is the

end result of the experience is not

434

always consistent or not what is perhaps

portrayed or conceived or perception,

435

perceptualized, is that a word?

436

Perceived by the campground

guest on the website.

437

And so then that leads to the

disconnect and it loops into the

438

uncertainty that Scott was talking

about it's not just always the same

439

as a hotel, three times more unlikely.

440

I think some of that is still people just

don't have quite that grasp or polish of

441

marketing that the hotel industry does.

442

Lori Severson: 100%.

443

And because it's got to be the truth.

444

Tina probably won't even remember

this, but one of my nephews

445

was into dragons at one time.

446

And so we wanted to take him to the Dells.

447

It was during the winter, so we took

him to the Dells and said, oh my gosh,

448

this is going to be the greatest thing.

449

This is such a huge dinosaur.

450

He's going to get such a kick out of this.

451

He's seven years old.

452

And when we got there, he

was taller than the dinosaur.

453

So all of a sudden that, it just,

it was like, okay, so much for this.

454

It's just not what I, perceived.

455

And then, and that was a big letdown.

456

And that first impression, when

that first thing goes sour, you got

457

a lot of making up to do, so it's

hard to come back from some of that.

458

So you're absolutely right, you're

and as campground owners, we do a

459

lot of fake it till you make it,

let's throw this together and we'll

460

put it in the brochure and we'll

make it happen when it comes time.

461

And that's not always the best program.

462

Brian Searl: Especially as we move

into these new generations Scott?

463

Like we have some data on this.

464

Scott Bahr: Yeah.

465

Oh yeah.

466

Yeah there's definitely a difference in

how they shop, how they pick where to

467

stay and whether or not they'll come back

is it's all up in the air at this point.

468

But yeah, the younger generation is

a little bit more fickle, but they

469

also, they don't, they're a little

less likely to respond to a lot of

470

traditional messaging and approaches.

471

We've been doing a lot of work

with this group, especially the

472

low engaged group, the people that

only, take one or two trips a year.

473

And they want to be, things to be

a little bit more self-directed.

474

They don't want it to, they don't

want it to be really intense.

475

They want to say, you got to have the

offerings there and then they'll decide.

476

Yeah.

477

And it's the same thing

with socialization.

478

It's, they aren't necessarily,

they are less social.

479

I'll just say that straight up.

480

However, it needs to be qualified

that they're a little bit more

481

picky in their socialization.

482

Okay, as I mentioned earlier,

I know you're from Wisconsin,

483

I'm from Northern Michigan.

484

And there everybody just meets everybody.

485

You walk up and say, how you

doing, where are you from?

486

Yeah.

487

Oh, I know someone from Detroit,

it's there's a few million people

488

there, but it doesn't matter.

489

Gen Z is more along the

lines of, I don't want that.

490

I want to have fewer, but I want them

to be a little bit more meaningful,

491

a little bit more in depth.

492

So it's a very different group.

493

It's a just a very different group.

494

It's really fascinating.

495

And we just, we have a lot of work to

do to keep them going, to bring them

496

in, to get them to buy RVs, Phil, and

to get them staying at their campsites

497

more than once or an extra night.

498

It's possible, but it has to be slow,

but I feel like it's very achievable.

499

We're, I feel much more positive.

500

I always tell people last year, last

fall I did a a couple sessions for a

501

class for a university in California.

502

It was, they were doing a a segment,

their architecture class on glamping.

503

And so at the end of it, I asked the class

504

of about, it was close to 30 students,

how many had ever been camping?

505

And not one hand went up.

506

Wow.

507

And I was, I expected it to be low,

but I didn't expect it to be none.

508

None.

509

Yeah.

510

And I was like, all right

here's our challenge right here.

511

It is right in front of me.

512

Lori Severson: I think you're

right on with that, Scott.

513

Yeah, I think you're

right on with that, Scott.

514

I think that so many times, especially

with that particular group, they want

515

to have a lot to choose from, but

they want to make the choice, so some

516

of them are very creative and they

want to go ahead and do their own

517

thing, and some of them not so much.

518

They really want something that's

more guided and okay, I just take

519

the kids here and this happens.

520

I just do this and this happens,

so it really is about having the

521

variety to offer those clients so

that no matter which of those areas

522

they fall into, they can they can be

happy and have those happy kiddos.

523

Brian Searl: We want the big dinosaurs.

524

Lori Severson: Yes.

525

The huge.

526

Scott Bahr: the smaller raptor

dinosaurs are cool anyway, right?

527

Like they're about my height.

528

The new raptors.

529

Lori Severson: Yeah.

530

They're not so cool when you're expecting

this seven foot dragon kind of dinosaur.

531

So that's expectations though.

532

That leads into that.

533

It is.

534

It is.

535

And I think it goes from, the parents'

expectations to the child's expectations.

536

And bottom line, the child's

is the one that matters.

537

Yeah, for sure.

538

Mom and dad, grandma and grandpa,

they'll pay the price if they,

539

as long as they get the payback.

540

If the receipt is in that smile that

says, you made my lifetime adventure.

541

Brian Searl: Exactly.

542

Phil, do you have any data on how

the differences are between like

543

the RV industry and what more of

the younger generation are wanting?

544

Or is it the same that Boomers want or?

545

Phil Ingrassia: I, yeah, I think that one

of the things is if you look at product

546

types, okay 15 years ago, the product type

mix is a lot different than it is now.

547

The, if you would have told me 10

years ago that van campers were

548

going to outsell Class A motorhomes,

I wouldn't have believed you.

549

But look at what's going on

with the van camper market.

550

Look at even the Type C market.

551

Yeah.

552

We're getting to see much more of

a European style in these newer

553

motorhomes that Thor, Winnebago,

Forest River are coming out with.

554

Much more drivable, much more

maneuverable and more, and less,

555

less hard, less intimidating,

I guess is what I'm getting at.

556

And then we've got the off-road

the more rugged travel trailer

557

segment that's coming in.

558

So all these people the younger buyers,

that's well documented, but they

559

are also pushing the manufacturers.

560

And to their credit, I think the

manufacturers are much more flexible and

561

doing better research on what, meeting the

market where it is versus trying to, shove

562

big fifth wheels down everybody's throat.

563

Brian Searl: So is this a

combination of, or isolated to

564

the generation and the economy?

565

Or is it a blend of people are trading

down because they're a little bit more

566

affordable, but also they're Gen Z,

Gen A, whatever, younger millennials?

567

Phil Ingrassia: we talk about

this K-shaped economy, right?

568

Van campers are not cheap.

569

They are more expensive than Type Cs now.

570

You can buy, you can spend anywhere from

120 to 300,000 on a van camper these days.

571

So it isn't that they're more affordable,

they're just they're meeting the

572

need of this younger buyer who wants

maybe a little bit more adventure,

573

some isn't just going to park in

one spot for an extended period.

574

They're going to be out and about.

575

And and I think that's a big part of

the van camper, pretty much explosion

576

we've seen the last five, six years.

577

Brian Searl: Which generally means

then we can infer that probably

578

is a selection that they want and

probably won't change in the near

579

future or even the longer term future.

580

So then how does that impact, and

whoever wants to answer this maybe

581

Scott, maybe somebody else, but how does

that impact how we build campgrounds?

582

Because we've talked and had conversations

with Simon before about how European

583

campsites are designed for those smaller

type campers already and don't require

584

as much build cost to put into them.

585

So does it change how

we design campgrounds?

586

Not now, but if it

continues for five years?

587

Ward

588

Wijngaert: I think it's sorry.

589

I think it's it's the ca

the van campers are just.

590

The new generation who introduce themself

in our business, but buying vans and

591

as you just said, expensive vans.

592

We see that they come, they

don't come into our campsites.

593

They only start coming to our

campsites when they have children

594

or when they are retired.

595

And so this is when they buy their

RVer or their bigger motor homes.

596

And I don't think we have to

reshape the campsites for the

597

guests at, in, in our case, we do

598

it on we to attract the more aged

and biggest family to attract them.

599

So for us, I don't think, I don't think

the demand can progress are a niche

600

for us, but I think they're the future.

601

What do you think, Scott,

of the American market?

602

Scott Bahr: I feel like the.

603

For quite a while.

604

The campgrounds were really indexing

high on pull through sites and the,

605

because the demand was definitely there.

606

I'm feeling like that might and

other people might be able to offer

607

something on this, it feels like that

might be declining a little bit, but

608

not because it's not just necessarily

because of the size of the RV.

609

It's the, it's how they operate.

610

The RV.

611

It's the ability people, yes.

612

I've heard from campground owners

who say that they're big pull through

613

sites, which are designed for, class

a's with a tow behind or a fifth wheel.

614

Are someone coming in with a, a

Tacoma and this small a towable

615

behind it, a micro to even.

616

And so anyway, it just, it

feels like there's a little bit

617

of that adjustment going on.

618

Because we also know that one of

the barriers to RV ownership is

619

the, the ability to operate them.

620

And the, in the past for us who have

been around a while, we know that in RV,

621

that used to, there used to be this in

camping in general, this, we call it, the

622

lifecycle where someone would start off

in a tent and they'd move on to a a popup.

623

and then maybe some kind of towable

at that point maybe upgrade their

624

towable, then maybe some kind of

motor home and then maybe back down

625

to something else when they get older

park model, as they say in some places.

626

But that was kinda the evolution.

627

Now the camper van,

because of the popularity.

628

Came with COVID and everything is

now that this aspirational type of

629

RV And so the younger folks, either

the gate wanna buy one of those.

630

And as Phil said, they're not cheap.

631

It's not the same as going

out and buying, a JCO popup.

632

It's

633

Lori Severson: it's a lot

different in orders of magnitude.

634

So it feels like there's some

delay stuff going on there.

635

I don't and I agree that I'm not

sure if campgrounds should make

636

really big adjustments to what's

going on right now in terms of.

637

Brian Searl: Yeah.

638

What about in five years?

639

If it continues, or 10 years?

640

If it continues.

641

Scott Bahr: but why, and

that may be the case.

642

Some campgrounds are converting

their RV sites to accommodations now.

643

There, on the ground people

are making, on the fly.

644

Adjustments.

645

And if it does continue,

you will see more of it.

646

But I don't think the industry should

be too reactionary about it either.

647

Brian Searl: Tina, what

do you think of all this?

648

Data from an association perspective

and from a conflict perspective.

649

Christina Severson: I think

as an association we look more

650

at trends that are, I guess a

little bit more longer term.

651

So when you look at something

like COVID, obviously that was an

652

anomaly, that was happening during

a certain specific timeframe.

653

So I guess I would look more at

things like, okay, did we make

654

decisions based on that one year

going crazy, being boom, being huge?

655

Yes, it introduced a lot of

people, new people to camping.

656

But were decisions made based on

657

this is more my baseline year that

I should be comparing things to.

658

So I think in terms of trends,

that's what I would offer there.

659

That's more what we would look at.

660

Lori Severson: brian

Searl: So what would need

661

Lori Severson: to and I think

Brian, the funny thing is.

662

I think the funny thing, Brian,

is with the VIP spaces even the

663

vans, that's what they want.

664

You and I know Tina will know this just

because of some of her reservation staff

665

that she's had to work with, but they

you'll have a beautiful van that could

666

very easily fit into a great small space.

667

They don't want a great small space.

668

They want a big VIP space.

669

That's what they want, and they'll pay

more for it, but that's what they want.

670

They want the chair already

set up there for 'em.

671

They want that nice pad.

672

They want the fireplace, the grill

already for me, and I'll pull right on up.

673

And I'm not really concerned about

what, what fits or doesn't fit as

674

far as my, the vehicle that I'm

driving, the RV that I'm driving.

675

Brian Searl: Is that backed

up by your data, Scott?

676

Because, like from what I am,

Ward, correct me if I'm wrong,

677

but from what seemed to imply.

678

Those people are staying away

from the traditional campsites.

679

Lori Severson: we don't really see that

680

Ward Wijngaert: The van.

681

The van customers.

682

Yeah.

683

But I agree with the premiumization.

684

Brian Searl: But is it the same

level of premiumization that way?

685

They're still looking for that flat 90

foot long patio site with the furniture?

686

Are they looking for a different level of

premiumization because they are clearly

687

in the type of rig they're driving, I

don't think, I know it's speculation.

688

Lori Severson: yes and no, Brian, because

I think one of the things that you

689

gotta look at is they do have a, they

do have a very nice space inside, right?

690

And all compartmentalized, but I'm

not compartmentalized when you're

691

outside, now give me that space.

692

Now I want that space.

693

Because you can't be confined

in a small area forever,

694

especially when you're camping.

695

That's just not what

camping is about either.

696

So I do think that those VIP space.

697

Places are really important,

and I will agree on it.

698

It's very different in the European

areas and other areas where many land

699

and spaces is just not as available.

700

But I think especially where it

is, I think they are looking for

701

those nice, spacious places to park.

702

Brian Searl: I think we probably agree.

703

I think it just depends on

how each individual park on

704

the micro level defines VIP.

705

Like when I, when you say VIP, to me,

I think what we've had traditionally

706

is VIP in this industry for a long

time, which is what I just described.

707

Not even pull through.

708

Like what, but you can have a

VIP site with a lot of outdoor

709

space that isn't the same as that.

710

Lori Severson: Correct.

711

Brian Searl: And so

712

Lori Severson: I believe

that's the new VIP space.

713

The the long the long space is not

necessarily what it's all about.

714

We, they seem to like and for a better.

715

Lack of better words,

I'll say a fatter space.

716

They want wider, they

717

want more, they want more space to spread

out and do their thing, in, in that group.

718

So it doesn't necessarily have to be

like, okay, I just need to make sure that

719

I can get everything that I own parked.

720

It's more about this is my private space

to have my fa family thing with it.

721

It goes back to what Scott was saying

about those folks being wanting at

722

more private air, and with just those

few friends versus a thousand friends.

723

Brian Searl: Yeah.

724

Christina Severson: Yeah.

725

Brian Searl: That's a little

bit more challenging for the

726

way most, on a macro level.

727

Obviously there are exceptions that

campgrounds are designed now that in

728

many cases, looking at the traditional

campground that's been built since

729

the sixties, that means taking two

sites and making them one, doesn't it?

730

Lori Severson: it definitely can.

731

But it also can teach you how to

make use of sort of those, I'll

732

call 'em border kind of sites.

733

Where you've got I've got like a

site and a quarter over here, or I've

734

got, this is a little hill site area

that I really can't do with any else.

735

It's a little extra thing how you

can put something around that space

736

and all of a sudden, instead of a

crappy site now that's your VIP site.

737

And it doesn't necessarily, it just has

to look like it's got that extra space.

738

Brian Searl: That's true.

739

That's fair.

740

It's all about the perception

of the site and the privacy.

741

That it's the story I tell about I

tell the same story about Ireland.

742

When we went there, we stayed in a, like

a container home, and it's an Airbnb

743

that somebody had along the river.

744

It was in the backyard of their house,

but you took a path down and by the

745

time you got there, like there was a

whole hedge between him and the house.

746

And you knew he was like a hundred

feet away, but there's no way you,

747

once you forgot about him, you

never remembered he was there.

748

I didn't hear anything else, so

it's, yeah, you're very right there.

749

Ward.

750

We keep getting disconnected.

751

I wanna give you a chance to tell us what

you do before you get disconnected again.

752

Ward Wijngaert: It's

been a complete disaster.

753

It's a heavy storm here when oh,

I'm losing connection all the time.

754

I'm sorry.

755

Brian Searl: That's okay.

756

Please tell us what you, tell us

a little about what you have going

757

on for people who don't know you.

758

Ward Wijngaert: Oh no, sorry.

759

My name is Ward.

760

I work for the Yelloh!

761

Village franchise premium campsites.

762

About the topic today, for

example, in terms of pitches for

763

the RVs, we, I completely agree.

764

We like to upgrade them with

private sanitaries, for example

765

to make them more premium.

766

And this is how we keep on

attracting these customers who

767

before maybe wouldn't come into our,

because our sites are expensive.

768

But again we think this is the future.

769

Quality is the future.

770

And this is what our brand stands

for in terms of differentiation

771

with other campsites.

772

We are a franchise.

773

We operate in three countries:

Spain, Portugal, and France.

774

And I would like, I would love to

discuss more about the premiumization

775

of, in terms of pitches because we had

a phenomenon of installing too many

776

accommodations the last two years.

777

We see a trend of recovering more

land to offer more pitches because

778

the RV business is a booming business.

779

So this is something we've seen

and of course pitches are much

780

more affordable and they don't

require so many investment and they

781

don't require so many maintenance.

782

The biggest business trend in

the, in terms of, we see them in

783

recovering pitches and of course,

premiumizing these pitches with

784

private barbecues private sanitaries,

private views, private gardens.

785

Even, I know in Croatia, for example,

in Croatia, there are even offering

786

private swimming pools on the pitch.

787

Lori Severson: But wait, that's really

what it's all about though, isn't it?

788

It is that personal VIP experience.

789

So it can be, I love my dog more

than my children, so I want to have

790

a space there not me honey, but…

791

Yeah, thanks.

792

Yeah, that they have more

space for the dog, if

793

you will, or the other person wants

that great river view, or the next

794

person just wants to make sure that

I just have a place to cook outside.

795

So that VIP experience

is different, right?

796

It needs to be customized for that person.

797

And that's really when you can

when you can make that work, right?

798

Brian Searl: Yeah, we see that, like we've

seen that in micro doses in, like when

799

we go to trade shows and conferences,

like I was in a session that was led

800

by, I think Amir Harpaz at OHI either

last year, I think it was last year.

801

And he was, we were talking about at the

time, like just how the early economic

802

picture was having people struggle a

little bit with transients even last year,

803

because 2023 2024 was down over 2023.

804

Too many years happening all

805

at once.

806

But people raised their hands and talked

about their unique sites in there.

807

They talked about their

shade canopy sites.

808

They talked about their sites where they

added, pet play pens, stuff like that.

809

And I raised my hand and I said,

you guys already have the answer.

810

It's uniqueness, it's differentiation,

it's the experience of those sites because

811

those sites will fill a niche need for an

audience that doesn't have that everywhere

812

and they will come to you as a result.

813

You don't need to reach out

to all RVers, you need to pick

814

your niche and grab it and go.

815

So I think that's interesting to see where

the future goes with that and the ability

816

of all this technology and tracking and

people getting into marketing and then

817

obviously AI and the ability of us to

really niche down into our audiences

818

and find what truly resonates with the

demographics that are coming to us,

819

that are nearby to us, the people that

are going to pull out of them or not.

820

And then I think maybe we almost have

to go through, and Scott, I'd love

821

your thoughts on this too, like maybe

we have to go through, maybe we're

822

a little bit behind Europe because

Europe has always been this more

823

smaller, I don't know if it's Class

C but Class C camper van type market.

824

Maybe we have to go through this

phase of we're going to build

825

a bunch of accommodations and

then maybe we'll overcorrect to

826

accommodations and then we'll go back.

827

By that time, then we'll have enough

of a saturation of the camper van

828

audience to make it worthwhile to

build something that's different

829

from the traditional pull-through.

830

Scott Bahr: Yeah,

831

absolutely.

832

I think maybe it was Simon that mentioned

this on one of the shows in the past,

833

but the idea that in Europe they tend

to build the campground or the park

834

with the experience in mind first.

835

And then, then start putting

in the sites based on that.

836

It's that guest forward mindset.

837

That's a little bit different than,

not everyone obviously, I feel like

838

we've come a long way in terms of

campground layout and design in

839

the last few years, absolutely.

840

But it's that idea that,

what is, what is happening?

841

Are we just going to see far

fewer of, Class As coming in and,

842

fifth wheels and is it going to

be much more of the scaled down?

843

If that's to go back to what we were

talking about a little bit earlier

844

when you asked me about this, Brian,

is that, maybe that is what happens.

845

Maybe the sites are just,

they're smaller, they're more

846

customized, they're more, boutique.

847

It's that, that kind of experience for

the person to come in and have that versus

848

the idea of, you're parking your van

in the middle of a site that's designed

849

for a gigantic fifth wheel or, I can't

say that towing something behind it.

850

That it's, you're swimming in

that spot versus something that's

851

really designed on what you have.

852

And I think that's what

people really want.

853

It's to see something and have something

that's, this site is for you because

854

you have that type of accommodation.

855

And that to me feels like

that's the appeal, that's the

856

future of where this is headed.

857

Lori Severson: Scott, I love that,

yeah, I love that name, boutique site.

858

I want to steal that, is that okay?

859

Scott Bahr: Please do.

860

Lori Severson:

861

I love that.

862

I think that is, I think that is just

inspirational, because that tells you

863

right there that you don't have to

have, you can do something unique, you

864

can do something fun on this one site

that's different than anybody else is

865

going to have because you have this

little piece or this little thing.

866

Brian Searl: and I

think they'll get there.

867

Like Simon, I want to, I'll

let you talk in one second.

868

I think they'll get there because

I think again, I don't think we're

869

behind Europe because of a bad

thing or because we're lagging.

870

I think it's because we have a different

type of camper over here and we have

871

had for a couple decades and that's

the Boomers who have been looking for

872

something that's been consistent and

different than what Europe has offered

873

or does offer in many cases, right?

874

Not that they can't go over there and

enjoy Europe, but generally speaking.

875

And so I think that has to go almost

come full circle into this different

876

expectations of these Millennials and

Gen Zs who are expecting something

877

different for the campgrounds to convert.

878

Go full circle.

879

Go ahead, Simon.

880

Simon Neal: Yeah, it's the same

sort of point I was going to make.

881

Now I think it's a massive restriction

on the American market today that

882

it's always been designed around

having to accommodate a Class A

883

and being able to deal with them.

884

And it really dictates how you design

your layout, what type of roads you

885

need to have, the turning circles.

886

And in Europe, like 90 percent or

more campgrounds you're going to go

887

to are not going to take a Class A.

888

They're just not going to fit.

889

So there's a huge difference in that

kind of market in the first place.

890

But definitely having a crack at saying

okay, this part of the campground

891

we're still going to accommodate this

type of size, but then let's slowly

892

start to change the other side and be

a bit more flexible in the design, the

893

layout, more customized, more boutique.

894

But that will take time.

895

You can't change your market overnight.

896

That's been the way it

is in the US for decades.

897

Brian Searl: All right, let's spend the

last few minutes here asking each other

898

questions if we, if some good stuff

comes out besides me asking questions.

899

So Simon, you want to start?

900

Do you have a question for

any of those people here?

901

Simon Neal: yeah, I mentioned a couple

of results from Croatia and Spain, Ward,

902

that were pretty promising for the summer.

903

So maybe do you have any indication

from your guys how it's looking?

904

Ward Wijngaert: it wasn't

looking so good this winter when

905

we opened the booking season.

906

We have seen a big trend of last minute

bookings, which we aren't so used to it.

907

So if we, if you asked me that question

in the month of April we would have

908

signed the same results as last year.

909

But now luckily enough with the

beginning of the summer, we see that

910

everything gets gets back to normal

and we are doing a very good season.

911

And so mostly France, because

the biggest part in France,

912

we operate 90 parks in France.

913

There we're getting ahead of of our…

914

Brian Searl: Oh, did we lose Ward again?

915

All right, we'll see if

he comes back in a second.

916

Hold on to that thought then.

917

Tina, do you have any

questions for anybody?

918

Christina Severson: Yeah, I was just

wondering, you had mentioned earlier

919

that you had seen a a uptick or that

things were going well in Canada and I

920

haven't really gotten that same sentiment

from our association that we look at.

921

I guess I'm just wondering, is that

more state park, local park, or not

922

state, but province park, local park?

923

Brian Searl: I will admit like I

haven't done the exact studies myself.

924

Anecdotally, I've talked to Cara

Csizmadia, who's the president of the

925

Canadian Camping and RV Association,

who is on our show once a month.

926

And then I have, regular calls

with her because we support the

927

association and some of their

marketing efforts and stuff like that.

928

From what I generally understand

talking to her and some of the

929

other, there are KOA franchisees,

Scott, I think are up quite a bit in

930

Canada versus their US counterparts.

931

So I think it's just a lot of, a lot

more people stayed home last year.

932

I think a lot more people are

933

this year, but that's holding steady.

934

Economic picture is also

keeping them closer to home.

935

So I think it's just a consequence

of less travel outside of Canada

936

means more camping inside of Canada.

937

Christina Severson: Sure.

938

Okay.

939

Scott Bahr: I can add

to that, Tina, as well.

940

Last Friday I was on a call with the, I

don't know her title, but she's with the

941

Canadian Provincial and Territorial Parks.

942

And she said that they were not huge,

but that thus far in the season that they

943

were looking forward to another season of

being at least marginally up a little bit.

944

So they're

945

taking a wait and see.

946

The season starts a little bit later.

947

Christina Severson: Which makes, sense

based on some of the feedback that I

948

had gotten too, because those would be

people that would be coming, they're

949

used to some traffic coming from the

US coming into their Canadian parks.

950

So I guess that makes sense that

there would be that variance there.

951

People just staying

there versus coming in.

952

Okay.

953

Brian Searl: Yeah, we do see that too.

954

Like the early, again, the

early anecdotal data I've had in

955

conversations is that the United States

people are still coming to Canada.

956

It's just the Canadians who, and

there are still Canadians who are

957

coming, but just not in the same

numbers that they did historically.

958

Christina Severson: okay.

959

Brian Searl: again, macro picture, right?

960

Christina Severson: yep.

961

Yep.

962

Brian Searl: Phil, you have

any questions for anybody?

963

Phil Ingrassia: this could probably be

a whole show, but one of the things that

964

we're seeing is with the new AI forward

searching going on with Google, that

965

you search for instance an RV dealership

that's the first thing that comes up

966

is all this review, all this reputation

stuff from reviews and things like this.

967

And they're almost scoring the

dealership based on the number of,

968

Yelp reviews or other reviews that

they see on Facebook or elsewhere.

969

What are the campgrounds, Tina, doing

to make sure that what's coming up in

970

those AI search results are accurate?

971

Because I know the dealers that I work

with are very concerned about that.

972

And it's unfair the way it's being done

because if you're a small dealership

973

and you only have 10 reviews and eight

are positive, you come out great.

974

If you're a large dealer and have, sell

30,000 units a year, sure you're going

975

to have more, just based on size, you're

going to have more negative reviews.

976

How are you guys working through that?

977

Christina Severson: I think education

is going to be a huge piece to

978

all of that because part of it is

making sure that, what you have out

979

there and published is accurate.

980

That what's being scraped for those AI

bots and use is, reflecting what you

981

really have in terms of your amenities

and making sure that you are on all

982

the sites that would give you reviews.

983

Reaching out to people that give

you those negative reviews and

984

trying to correct that in some way.

985

Making sure that, you keep that

communication up and going.

986

But then I also think educating just on,

like we have our fall workshops and we

987

have other conventions that come up and

I think that those are going to be key,

988

key classes that we have going forward.

989

Just making sure that people are aware of

it and then how to combat it a little bit.

990

Because like you said, part of it

is just, it's, some of it's really

991

out of your hands, which stinks.

992

It's, but just making sure that

you're keeping as much accurate

993

information as possible on your website.

994

The pictures are accurate, they're

not made up, they're not ChatGPT,

995

they're real they're real pictures,

they're real people having fun

996

that you've gotten a waiver for.

997

We talked about some of that stuff with

legalities and things like that, but…

998

Lori Severson: Yeah, Phil,

that's a good question.

999

I feel like all around AI, you're right,

we could have a whole conversation on how

00:51:49,553 --> 00:51:51,443

is that impacting the industry in general.

00:51:52,033 --> 00:51:52,623

It's tough.

00:51:53,623 --> 00:51:57,023

Having even, like on your site, now

there's options obviously to have

00:51:57,063 --> 00:52:00,673

a little chat bot, little friend

help out with answering reservations

00:52:00,733 --> 00:52:02,083

or questions that you might have.

00:52:02,083 --> 00:52:04,903

And are they giving accurate

information or is it something

00:52:04,903 --> 00:52:05,673

that's just being sourced?

00:52:06,123 --> 00:52:06,483

Yeah.

00:52:07,193 --> 00:52:07,843

It's scary.

00:52:07,873 --> 00:52:08,973

If you ask me, it's scary.

00:52:09,943 --> 00:52:12,293

Brian Searl: I think it's probably

easier for campgrounds, Phil, than

00:52:12,293 --> 00:52:14,553

it is for anything else because

I think the RV industry is more

00:52:14,553 --> 00:52:15,823

comparable to let's say the airlines.

00:52:16,483 --> 00:52:18,983

No matter how good you set expectations,

there's always going to be somebody

00:52:18,983 --> 00:52:21,523

who complains about the airline

in some way or fashion, right?

00:52:22,073 --> 00:52:22,953

Lori Severson: we get complaints

00:52:25,743 --> 00:52:25,903

too.

00:52:25,903 --> 00:52:25,983

Brian Searl: Sure.

00:52:25,983 --> 00:52:28,543

But I think your challenge is a

little bit more of an uphill climb.

00:52:28,593 --> 00:52:31,343

But what I would encourage like

any business to do is just,

00:52:31,373 --> 00:52:34,483

yes, they are heavily weighting

reviews, user generated content.

00:52:34,923 --> 00:52:37,543

So the answer there is, yeah, if you're

a small dealership and you're only

00:52:37,543 --> 00:52:39,403

selling 10 units, that's a problem.

00:52:39,403 --> 00:52:42,133

But try to make sure that all those

10 units, when they come to your

00:52:42,133 --> 00:52:45,523

dealership, have the correct expectation,

they've seen good photos, the service

00:52:45,523 --> 00:52:49,093

is good, so that the chances that they

leave you a good review are higher.

00:52:49,133 --> 00:52:51,723

And then it's, most people

don't leave good reviews when

00:52:51,723 --> 00:52:53,033

it comes to any business.

00:52:53,713 --> 00:52:55,893

They go on and scream when

they leave bad reviews.

00:52:55,903 --> 00:53:00,023

So I think it's making sure that not only

do as many of those 10 people have a good

00:53:00,023 --> 00:53:03,983

experience as possible, but I'm somehow

encouraging them to leave a review.

00:53:04,003 --> 00:53:05,723

Not incentivizing, but encouraging.

00:53:05,963 --> 00:53:07,893

Christina Severson: yeah, we do

have a checklist outside of a lot

00:53:07,893 --> 00:53:11,843

of our campgrounds in Wisconsin in

particular that would include that as

00:53:11,843 --> 00:53:14,533

part of the checkout process that you

would ask, how was your experience?

00:53:14,553 --> 00:53:16,033

Oh, would you mind leaving a review?

00:53:16,053 --> 00:53:18,583

Hopefully it's a positive one,

can I count on a positive review?

00:53:18,583 --> 00:53:20,893

Just asking that ahead of

time before they leave.

00:53:20,943 --> 00:53:22,533

That might be good for dealerships too.

00:53:23,363 --> 00:53:24,803

Brian Searl: you're right,

this is a whole show.

00:53:24,853 --> 00:53:26,523

And we only have less than a minute left.

00:53:26,523 --> 00:53:26,543

So

00:53:28,903 --> 00:53:29,433

I'm going to go a couple

minutes over here.

00:53:29,923 --> 00:53:32,923

But generally speaking, I think this is

just evolving so fast, Phil, that where we

00:53:32,923 --> 00:53:34,473

are now is it's not going to stand still.

00:53:34,473 --> 00:53:37,533

I was reading a study this morning

from somebody who, who mentioned

00:53:37,533 --> 00:53:40,903

that if a brand, now that you have

personalization in Google, you can

00:53:40,903 --> 00:53:43,423

connect your Gmail and your photos and

everything else and it personalizes

00:53:43,423 --> 00:53:44,803

your search results just to you.

00:53:45,443 --> 00:53:50,343

That if you, if Google, if Gmail

finds a brand that you have emailed

00:53:50,343 --> 00:53:53,463

with in the past or you're on their

list and it sits in your Gmail inbox,

00:53:53,683 --> 00:53:56,633

they're 53 percent more likely to show

up in AI overviews to that person.

00:53:58,063 --> 00:53:58,193

Lori Severson: Crazy.

00:53:58,283 --> 00:54:00,893

Brian Searl: So I think this stuff is

going to evolve really quickly because

00:54:00,913 --> 00:54:03,001

then what's going to happen is people are

going to see that study and then they're

00:54:03,001 --> 00:54:05,493

going to start spamming everybody under

the sun with their emails thinking that's

00:54:05,493 --> 00:54:07,253

going to improve their brand presence.

00:54:07,253 --> 00:54:10,033

And then, so it's just a,

it's a constant moving target.

00:54:10,033 --> 00:54:11,823

I think it gets better over time.

00:54:11,823 --> 00:54:14,513

And eventually what the goal is

I think is to deliver the best

00:54:14,513 --> 00:54:16,363

answer, period, to the consumer.

00:54:16,363 --> 00:54:18,163

That's always, I think,

been Google's goal.

00:54:18,163 --> 00:54:20,413

They don't care about the RV

industry or the campground industry.

00:54:20,913 --> 00:54:23,483

It's the best answer that keeps

people coming back to Google.

00:54:23,923 --> 00:54:28,133

So I think it eventually evens out,

hopefully, shakes out the right

00:54:28,133 --> 00:54:31,663

way for people who are offering

a good dealership experience.

00:54:31,683 --> 00:54:34,203

We're about out of time, so I want

to go around and just let everybody

00:54:34,203 --> 00:54:36,593

give their final thoughts and then

where they can find more information.

00:54:36,593 --> 00:54:38,063

Lori, you want to start us off?

00:54:38,923 --> 00:54:39,503

Lori Severson: Sure.

00:54:40,433 --> 00:54:40,963

Sure.

00:54:41,503 --> 00:54:43,083

We have I'll talk about COE.

00:54:43,103 --> 00:54:46,436

We have the Campground Owners

Expo coming up here in December.

00:54:46,716 --> 00:54:50,196

So you can check out that

website and we would love to

00:54:50,206 --> 00:54:51,466

connect with some of you guys.

00:54:51,496 --> 00:54:56,881

Come on over and volunteer to be speakers

for us and get that information out there.

00:54:57,321 --> 00:54:58,311

Good to see you again, Phil.

00:55:00,981 --> 00:55:01,301

Brian Searl: Awesome.

00:55:01,311 --> 00:55:02,181

Thanks for being here, Lori.

00:55:02,191 --> 00:55:05,301

Scott, final thoughts and where can Neal

they find out more about Cairn Consulting?

00:55:05,351 --> 00:55:07,251

Scott Bahr: I had a question for

Phil and I'll just throw this out

00:55:07,251 --> 00:55:12,641

there because I saw this headline

last week on Toyota having an EV

00:55:12,641 --> 00:55:15,271

that battery that goes 1,100 miles.

00:55:15,601 --> 00:55:20,311

And knowing that Toyota is entering

into the RV market a little bit

00:55:20,311 --> 00:55:23,801

more how that might, change the

industry a little bit, or if at all.

00:55:24,191 --> 00:55:25,571

But what the future of that might be.

00:55:25,671 --> 00:55:28,701

I thought that was, and it's not

a lithium ion battery either.

00:55:29,081 --> 00:55:30,201

That was the other part of that.

00:55:30,211 --> 00:55:33,351

So I thought that was super

interesting and just, I don't know.

00:55:33,871 --> 00:55:37,561

I'm not a prognosticator, but it just

seemed like to me it was a big deal

00:55:37,561 --> 00:55:38,951

and it didn't get a lot of attention.

00:55:39,721 --> 00:55:42,271

Phil Ingrassia: But yeah there's

a lot of thoughts about that.

00:55:42,381 --> 00:55:47,671

One is a little bit of a look back

because auto manufacturers have got a

00:55:47,681 --> 00:55:49,911

very checkered past in the RV business.

00:55:50,111 --> 00:55:53,741

That's just, you can just Google it

and see all the ones that have failed.

00:55:53,751 --> 00:55:59,111

there's a little, part of the issue is I

think the car dealers sell cars, right?

00:55:59,381 --> 00:56:00,181

That's what they do.

00:56:00,571 --> 00:56:05,391

And RV dealers sell RVs and

they're selling a, an experience.

00:56:05,401 --> 00:56:08,151

So I think the jury's still out on that.

00:56:08,181 --> 00:56:14,261

I think the big thing on, on electric

that we've seen is the towing capacity.

00:56:14,271 --> 00:56:18,591

And once you hook something up

to those batteries, where's that,

00:56:18,641 --> 00:56:20,231

where does the towing capacity go?

00:56:20,691 --> 00:56:23,481

And that seems to be the big bugaboo now.

00:56:23,891 --> 00:56:27,721

Hopefully, the battery technology

will take off and handle some of that.

00:56:27,721 --> 00:56:31,831

But the Ford Lightning was way

over promised and under delivered.

00:56:32,341 --> 00:56:34,561

And so that's why Ford hung that up.

00:56:34,561 --> 00:56:38,191

Brian Searl: All right, Phil,

final thoughts and where can

00:56:38,191 --> 00:56:39,501

they learn more about RVDA?

00:56:39,821 --> 00:56:42,031

Phil Ingrassia: we have a convention

coming up too, and we're going to be

00:56:42,031 --> 00:56:47,301

talking about AI issues as well as just

general economic issues at our conference.

00:56:47,321 --> 00:56:51,011

It's coming up November 12th

through the 15th at Paris Las Vegas.

00:56:51,031 --> 00:56:54,521

People who are interested

can go to rvda.org

00:56:55,261 --> 00:56:56,691

to find out more information on that.

00:56:57,721 --> 00:56:58,041

Brian Searl: Awesome.

00:56:58,051 --> 00:56:59,011

Thanks for being here, Phil.

00:56:59,071 --> 00:57:01,081

Simon, final thoughts and where

can they learn more about Campmap?

00:57:02,581 --> 00:57:04,921

Simon Neal: Yeah, I think just

positive signals coming from

00:57:04,971 --> 00:57:06,421

Europe at least at the moment.

00:57:06,421 --> 00:57:08,531

So hope that passes

over to the US as well.

00:57:09,191 --> 00:57:10,891

Yeah, you can find more

about us at campmap.com.

00:57:10,891 --> 00:57:16,031

You can reach us, book a meeting, find

information there, or find me on LinkedIn.

00:57:17,761 --> 00:57:18,041

Brian Searl: All right.

00:57:18,071 --> 00:57:20,451

Thank you guys for joining us for

another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

00:57:20,451 --> 00:57:22,631

Like I said earlier, we don't have

another episode of Outlier today.

00:57:22,631 --> 00:57:24,721

Scott and I are taking the week off.

00:57:24,751 --> 00:57:25,631

We'll be back next week.

00:57:25,631 --> 00:57:27,791

We're going to do a deep dive into

marketing and some other stuff like that.

00:57:27,791 --> 00:57:31,191

So until then, we will see you next week

on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

00:57:31,201 --> 00:57:31,641

Thanks guys.

00:57:31,731 --> 00:57:32,311

Appreciate you all.

00:57:33,171 --> 00:57:33,361

Scott Bahr: Bye everybody.

00:57:33,501 --> 00:57:33,971

Lori Severson: Thank you.