Brain Searl:
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Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
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My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks.
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I'm whispering on purpose.
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Because I'm inside an airport lounge in
Ottawa, internationally important, so I
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just want to meet my neighbors around me.
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So I'm going to count on my special
guests here to carry the show.
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They do a better job than me anyways,
so it really won't be any different.
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Just so you know.
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And also, I have a little
head cold, so I don't know.
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All the things are working against
me today, and in your favor.
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Because of our special guests, so
we're excited to talk about our RV
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industry show here for the fourth week.
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We've got Mr.
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Shane Devenish from CRDA, we've got
Phil Gracia from RVDA of America, I
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still can't get that it's not America,
but And then RVDA of Canada, Eleanor
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Hamm, super excited to have all of
them here, and then Mike Winn, our
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special guest from RV Lifestyle.
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If you guys want to just go around
real quick and introduce yourselves for
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everybody, just for those of you who
are new or don't know who you all are,
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feel free to, whoever wants to start.
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Eleonore Hamm: Sure, I'll go first.
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I'm Eleanore Hamm, President of the
RV Dealers Association of Canada.
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We're a federation of provincial and
regional associations and represent
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the RV dealers here in canada.
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Phil Ingrassia: I'm Phil Ingrassi.
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I'm President of the RV
Dealers Association U.
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S.
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We represent U.
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S.
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motorhome and travel trailer dealers
and work very closely with Eleanor
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and her members at RV Day of Canada.
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Shane Devenish: I'm Shane Devenish
from the Canadian RV Association.
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We are the Canadian
equivalent of the RBIA.
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And Brian, you should be in an RV
and not in an airport right now.
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Mike Wendland: He should.
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Brain Searl: I'm waiting on this.
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Waiting on the CRVA to
sponsor one for McCain.
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When is it going to happen?
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Mike Wendland: He's going to get busted.
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He's sitting there talking
like this really quiet.
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Hi everybody, I'm Mike Wedelin.
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I am an RVer.
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I am from RV Lifestyle.
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We're bloggers, YouTubers, RV travel
book authors, and bon vivants in the
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RV industry across North America.
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Pleasure to be with y'all.
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Brain Searl: Alright super
excited to have you all guys here.
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As I start with every kind of recurring
bill here is there anything Shane,
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Phil, Eleanore, specifically, because
you're a recurring guest, that feels
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like super important that we need to
share with the world, with the industry?
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Phil Ingrassia: A couple studies
came out within the last couple weeks
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about RV holiday travel, and I was...
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A little surprised about some of it.
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KOA just put out a release today saying
that camping is going to be pretty
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popular during the holiday season.
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In fact they said something like
45 percent of people are going
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to be many travelers are going
to be camping for Thanksgiving.
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That'll be the top holiday probably,
obviously, for people to camp.
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But Surprised to see the activity,
but I guess people are wanting to
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get outside while they still can on
this shoulder season a little bit.
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Be interested in Mike's thoughts on those.
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Mike Wendland: It's, we just did it.
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Our podcast just came out today and
it's all about Thanksgiving in an RV.
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Of course, this is Thanksgiving
in the US this weekend.
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And We posted on our Facebook, RV
Lifestyle Facebook group, before I did
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the podcast, I said how many of you are
traveling in an RV this weekend, and
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we had over 500 responses, and about
20 percent of all of those and we did
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just a rough calculation, but about 20
percent said they were actually going
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to cook in their RV or in a campground.
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And we interviewed one couple
that have been doing this for
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10 years with their family.
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23 people camping in a campground and
cooking turkey, smoked turkey outside
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in Missouri, near Branson, Missouri.
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Surprised, we were surprised how many
people said they actually wanted to
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camp this weekend and would be doing so.
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Brain Searl: If I want to go find those
people next week, I'm going to be in
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Branson for the Cape Grimmers Expo.
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They're going to have
some leftovers for me.
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Mike Wendland: Yeah, they should.
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They start their cookie,
their smoked turkey outside.
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They said that the campground, by the
way, is filled and with other people.
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Some are obviously staying there and
visiting family, but it's filled.
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She said she had to make reservations
five months ago to get three sites
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together for all their family members.
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So apparently a lot more than we may think
are cooking turkeys in their Thanksgiving
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turkeys outside or in their RV.
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Eleonore Hamm: Is that unusual?
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Normally, have you done this study before?
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Is this a new trend?
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Mike Wendland: We've never done it.
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I wouldn't call it a study.
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It's just a we have about,
but we have a huge group.
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We have 155, 000 active
members on our Facebook.
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So we can really do quick surveys.
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And I just posted that the other
day before I recorded my podcast.
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I wonder how many of them have
posted, have, are camping.
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And they were all.
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I'll go on.
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I was just surprised at how
many do camp on Thanksgiving.
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And I think that was the, I just,
because, we're always visiting family.
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We're in our RV.
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We'll maybe moochdocking
in somebody's driveway.
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But to find so many people still
camping was a surprise to me.
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And this is 12 years now we've
been living this lifestyle.
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I just didn't think it was that popular.
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Brain Searl: It's interesting, it would
be interesting to me to see if we could
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understand the difference between the
people who camp for Thanksgiving and
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who are full time, and who like, not
only live in their RVs, but primarily
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live in their RVs, versus the people
who transient camp for Insider Perks.
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Mike Wendland: I would suspect, and
I didn't, I have no, nothing except
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just experience to back it up,
but the people we did the extended
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interview with are regular campers.
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They go out once a month, at least
they said, but they're not full timers.
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And I would think that You probably have
a few more full timers who are celebrating
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Thanksgiving in an RV than part timers,
but I think that it's become, for a lot
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of people, it's probably a tradition.
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You, you go someplace, you visit family,
friends, your RV, and that's a pretty
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fun thing to do if you can cook outside.
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I asked them what they do if it rains,
and they said they raided the nearest
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Walmart and bought as many tarps as
they could and put their tables together
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and tarps underneath it, and it was
one of their best memories yet when
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they had that a few years ago, but it's
just, I think, we sometimes forget how
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integral a part of our community is.
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of our followers lives is indeed
camping, even in holiday time
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or whether it's in a driveway.
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Moot stocking, I don't know how we could
measure that, but I would guess that there
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is a significant number of RVers who are
camping in relatives or friends driveways.
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This weekend.
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And I think that the, it makes
a lot of sense is you've got
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your own bed, your own bath.
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It's like a private en suite.
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All your stuff is there.
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It's so much more convenient than a hotel.
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To get some actual statistics
would be interesting.
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I suspect we would all be surprised
just by what we found in this.
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Brain Searl: How does RV Look
forward, and this is not just the
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Camping in Iteria conversation
but many different associations.
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How do we look forward?
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How do we embrace both the people
that obviously are continuing to
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love RVing, but also camping, and
glamping, and everything else?
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And that people who will diversify their
stays and go to hip camp sometimes,
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and people who will go to Europe but
still go camping three times a year
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instead of six times a year, right?
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It's a lot of loaded questions as
we look at all these KOA surveys
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that come up in the winter.
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Is that adding more trips?
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Are they new people who are and so
I think whichever way you slice and
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dice the data, it's going to be an
interesting next couple of years.
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Eleonore Hamm: Yeah, in terms of studies,
we'll be releasing probably by the time
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you do your next podcast here or your
next show I don't know if there'll be
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one in December, but at least in January,
we do have a new draft right now that
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we're reviewing for an economic impact
analysis for the Canadian RV industry.
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Some really interesting data
that'll come out of that.
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We do know that there's still about 2.
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1 million RVs on the road.
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And last year in 2022, 6.
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3 million RV trips were taken in Canada.
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And this time, for the first
time, we also looked at rentals.
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So 1.
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3 million trips taken in in rentals.
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And we feel that number is
really increasing as well.
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So good to have data and good to see
where, where where we can compare to
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where we were, over the last 10 years.
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Brain Searl: And I think that's to be
clear, you guys can shoot me down because
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I'm not the RV industry expert, right?
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But I have a gut feeling that
rentals is really a big growth in
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the RV industry is going to come
in the next five to 10 years.
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Of course, people are still
going to buy these, right?
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But we had this conversation at
many different conferences that
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I've been in last month, is there's
a lot of these new people that the
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age demographic is trending down,
they live in urban areas, they don't
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have a place to store an RV, right?
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You can't park it in your driveway, you
can't put it in an apartment complex.
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You still want to go RVing, right?
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You want to be outdoors.
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Or maybe you'll buy
one, maybe you rent one.
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And that still ends up being a
net win for the dealers, right?
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'cause the rental companies are
still buying them more from the crew.
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Mike Wendland: I think you're
also seeing a lot more dealers
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that are renting as well.
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I'm thinking of The's.
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A lot of folks are going out to Quar
site, for the big January, what,
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300,000 people camping in the desert.
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And I'm hearing just anecdotally
from a lot of people who are.
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They don't want to necessarily drive
across the country to go out to Corsite,
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but they want to experience it, so
they're all looking for places in the
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Arizona area and Las Vegas where they
can rent RVs and then drive down.
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I think it's a great business.
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I'm hearing all the time about
new companies that are starting
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out that specialize in renting.
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And I think that I think you're
right on, Brian, that that's a fast
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growing area and it's perfect for
the younger generation because...
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Nobody can afford a house anymore.
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How can you afford to buy a house in
the, in these economic times we're in?
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So people are used to renting.
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They're renting their houses,
they're renting their apartments.
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It makes sense, especially when an RV,
you're paying 9 percent for an RV loan.
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It makes sense to rent an RV.
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Although, nobody's going to rent them
long term, but for a weekend or a couple
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of weeks, I think you'll see that's
a very viable industry for people to
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keep this, people are hooked on it.
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After COVID, it's not going
back the way it was before.
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If nothing, people really
like this lifestyle.
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Shane Devenish: Yeah, and I I agree
that, the rental stat is something
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that we really need to watch I, I'd be
curious to see if the stat per person
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and their rental frequency goes up,
because if you have somebody, Rent,
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renting multiple times, those are
the people that used to buy, right?
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It's one thing to rent once or twice
and try it out But if you see people
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renting it five and six times Then
that's something that you know, I
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think as an industry would watch
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Mike Wendland: I think it's a
great entryway to buy an RV.
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We recommend to folks when
they say what should I get?
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And we say, go rent a
couple of different types.
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Start, try a class B, a C, rent
a rent a towable if you have to.
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And I'm wondering if that's showing up
at RV dealerships, if people are coming
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in and saying, Hey, we've been renting
for a while and now we want to buy.
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And it seems that's a pretty good
pathway to actually buying too.
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Yeah, certainly there's a lot of
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Phil Ingrassia: RV dealers.
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Oh, sorry, go ahead.
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No, go ahead.
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For RV dealers, there's a lot of economic
things that they have to consider
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when they enter the rental market.
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One is just a basic, do they have
the space to do it and the staff?
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Because we've found over the years
that the most successful RV dealers
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in the rental space really run
it almost as a separate business.
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Because you need to have dedicated
staff to check out and check in people.
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You need to have the space
to store the rental units.
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Some dealers are a little landlocked and
it makes renting a bit difficult for them.
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They just don't have the space.
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And then, during the pandemic when
sales were hot a lot of dealers just
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got out of it because they could sell
the motorhome or the travel trailer
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versus having it in the rental fleet.
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However, now that business is cooling
off a bit, we are seeing more dealers
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taking another look at rentals and
it's it's an interesting business in
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many places it's very seasonal, but
dealers who run it separately and make
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it become a profit center on itself
typically are the most successful at it.
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And now you have the peer to peer
rental platforms coming in and
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They create a whole nother set of
challenges, but uh, it's certainly it's
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a market for the dealers to explore.
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It's just it's just something that it's
not just, it's not as easy as saying
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we'll just run out a bunch of these units.
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You really have to have
a business plan in place.
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Otherwise your customer service goes down.
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People do.
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Do crash these units and you've got
to, you've got to have a good plan in
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place, you've got to have good insurance
coverages and you've got to have
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the people in place to service those
customers, because these first timers,
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they don't know how to use the unit
and not only can they break the unit,
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but they can have a bad experience if
they aren't checked out correctly on,
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on the systems and things in place.
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But we survey dealers and we think that
we're going to see more dealers get
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into or back into RV rentals in 2024.
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Brain Searl: Here's an
interesting question, right?
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Give me like, just take
a hypothetical, right?
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If it's the worst case scenario, and
maybe this isn't the worst case, right?
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For the purpose of this conversation,
worst case scenario happens
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and RV sales don't bounce back
for a couple of years, right?
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Is it feasible for a dealership to be
very successful by renting, going all
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in like you're talking about, Phil, into
a market that's increasing in rentals
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and also have service still be able to
function, not just for the consumer owned
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RVs, but for the rentals and for the,
even the outdoorsies and stuff like that?
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Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, absolutely.
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I think that the, some of the successful
business plans are, Near attractions,
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Florida, out west, around Rocky
Mountain National Park or Yellowstone
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or some of those kind of areas in the U.
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S.
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Where you've got a lot of debts,
like Mike was talking about,
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people fly in and drive, right?
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So you fly into Jackson Hole or whatever
and you rent a unit there and then
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drive into Grand Tetons or Yellowstone.
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That's a successful model.
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That is, we've seen,
and of course, in the U.
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S., we have Cruise America and El Monte,
there's a, they cater to a lot of those
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types of travelers, especially travelers
from overseas who want to see the U.
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S., so a lot of those Cruise America
units driving down the road have have
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international visitors driving them,
and so it's, It's a good business,
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but you gotta be, it's complicated
for a lot of different reasons.
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Shane Devenish: It's not easy.
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We've seen some big guys
up here, not make it.
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And it all comes down to utilization and
curtailments off season to keep their...
282
:
00:16:48
Sometimes they just run
out of cash flow and it's.
283
:
00:16:51
Eleonore Hamm: Yeah, obviously
284
:
00:16:52
it's some of the large fleets, right?
285
:
00:16:53
We have the same thing, like Phil
said, people are flying in from Europe.
286
:
00:16:56
It's they want to go to the
Banff, Jasper, all in the West.
287
:
00:16:59
They're, or they fly into Vancouver
and they want to do that drive, right?
288
:
00:17:02
But again it's generally for only
three or four months of the year.
289
:
00:17:06
Because we can, some units can,
are equipped for winter camping,
290
:
00:17:10
but they're not all, and it does
get quite brisk if you're in in the
291
:
00:17:13
Rocky Mountains in in January, right?
292
:
00:17:16
So some of the big fleets, we've
got Canada Dream and Cruise
293
:
00:17:19
Canada, Fraser Way some big fleets.
294
:
00:17:22
But, on dealers, if, if they have the
space on their lots, it's definitely
295
:
00:17:25
something they should look into and look
at to see if it's something they can
296
:
00:17:29
incorporate in their business model.
297
:
00:17:31
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah.
298
:
00:17:31
Along racetracks and, uh, those
kinds of places amusement parks
299
:
00:17:37
where there's camping, a lot of,
300
:
00:17:39
Mike Wendland: Musicals, tailgating,
a lot of people running for that.
301
:
00:17:46
I think it's a big profit center though
for dealers, just because of the scale
302
:
00:17:52
that you would have to make a profit that
would allow you to have dedicated staff.
303
:
00:17:59
There's so much competition now with
peer to peer and I see it more as just
304
:
00:18:04
a side side business that maybe will
help a little bit with the bottom line.
305
:
00:18:09
But, just think of the size.
306
:
00:18:11
If you have 10 rental units
are you gonna have 'em all
307
:
00:18:14
rented out in a single weekend?
308
:
00:18:16
Particularly, as Shane said up in
the northern climate, it's, yeah.
309
:
00:18:21
It's too crazy.
310
:
00:18:22
Isabel, I can just see camping
in Banff in the middle of January
311
:
00:18:28
and everything freezes up and
you've got to go get that thing.
312
:
00:18:32
And it's, there are a lot of headaches.
313
:
00:18:35
Phil's absolutely right.
314
:
00:18:36
Phil Ingrassia: But you've got to
look at, utilization is key, but.
315
:
00:18:39
If you have 100 percent utilization,
and I don't know, there's some kind of
316
:
00:18:42
formula they use because if something
happens, somebody doesn't bring it back
317
:
00:18:46
on time, or they back it into a tree or
something like that, you've got to have
318
:
00:18:51
a replacement unit for these other folks.
319
:
00:18:54
And so the utilization becomes a kind
of a formula that you've got to use so
320
:
00:18:59
that you do have some backup units and
certainly the big ones cruise America,
321
:
00:19:05
they know how to do that very well and
they do a great job and they keep their
322
:
00:19:09
units the, they're the kind of the same,
so that people are, get what they expect
323
:
00:19:15
versus, you have a bunch of different
types of units that you run out, it
324
:
00:19:19
can be hard to replace the, if you've
got five people going and you, RV can
325
:
00:19:24
really only come comfortably sleep two.
326
:
00:19:27
That's a problem.
327
:
00:19:29
Lots of things that people a lot smarter
than me have figured out over the
328
:
00:19:33
years on RV rentals, that's for sure.
329
:
00:19:35
Brain Searl: I can't even figure out how
to keep this gimbal cambell straight,
330
:
00:19:38
Phil Ingrassia: we, yeah,
we we're noticing, Brian.
331
:
00:19:41
Brain Searl: It's it's on a gimbal
for a handheld thing, and it just
332
:
00:19:44
decides to go and collapse every time.
333
:
00:19:47
I don't know.
334
:
00:19:48
Anyway, it's probably better.
335
:
00:19:50
I look more handsome when I'm not looking.
336
:
00:19:52
But let's talk to Mike
for a second, right?
337
:
00:19:57
So Mike, tell us what RV Lifestyle is.
338
:
00:20:01
Mike Wendland: wE were, this is 12
years, journalists by background
339
:
00:20:06
for many years, the NBC and big city
newspapers and television stations,
340
:
00:20:12
but About a dozen years ago, we
thought we were going to retire.
341
:
00:20:16
We bought a little RV, a Class
B at the time, a used one.
342
:
00:20:20
And it was, everybody was coming
out of the:
2008
343
:
00:20:23
So it was like, we didn't know, we just
were going to go out and see the country.
344
:
00:20:27
I was going back to see the places
that I had visited as a reporter.
345
:
00:20:32
That and that was a time to get acquainted
with my wife again, reacquainted with her.
346
:
00:20:36
She had a background in TV production.
347
:
00:20:38
We just started blogging.
348
:
00:20:40
I'm a journalist, I gotta write a story,
and some of my friends picked it up,
349
:
00:20:44
and was right out of the 28, and I got
called by a couple of RV manufacturers
350
:
00:20:50
saying, Hey, we don't want you in a used
one, let's get you in some new things.
351
:
00:20:54
We began to find people wanted to
sponsor us for the, that was just the
352
:
00:20:58
blog at that time, and then we started
doing YouTube, we started a podcast.
353
:
00:21:02
5, almost 500 episodes now of our podcast,
and it's turned into a business and we're
354
:
00:21:10
usually around the road half to three
quarters of the time, and it's a labor
355
:
00:21:15
of love for us because we get to tell the
stories about what we're doing and share.
356
:
00:21:21
The fun things that we're having
in our life that this lifestyle
357
:
00:21:25
really does make possible.
358
:
00:21:27
So we have about a million followers
all in all of our platforms together.
359
:
00:21:33
And sometimes it's hard to figure out
which platform we're talking about because
360
:
00:21:36
we just added Amazon Live earlier this
year to do some reviews and things.
361
:
00:21:43
And we're doing probably Three
or four live feeds every week.
362
:
00:21:48
But the interest is just amazing on this
lifestyle from, and it, so many people
363
:
00:21:56
who have found this post covid I'm still
hearing people who said we started camping
364
:
00:22:02
right after Covid and and now they're.
365
:
00:22:06
They're thinking about selling
houses and going full time so
366
:
00:22:09
it's a, it, the demand is there.
367
:
00:22:12
Phil Ingrassia: What kind of
reviews are you doing, Mike?
368
:
00:22:14
Are you doing campground
reviews, product reviews?
369
:
00:22:16
Mike Wendland: I keep thinking I should
do campground reviews because we really,
370
:
00:22:20
we think we could probably offer some
suggestions to them, but more product
371
:
00:22:24
than anything else that we've been doing.
372
:
00:22:26
The things, that range from A little
fire starter that people can have to a
373
:
00:22:31
handcrafted hatchet that's razor sharp,
that's made in the Ukraine, that's
374
:
00:22:36
perfect, a perfect gift for somebody to
take, in the back of their RV to, we'd
375
:
00:22:41
go to all the big shows, we review all
the new rigs our Sticks and Bricks home
376
:
00:22:45
is just outside, just over the Michigan
border from Indiana, so we're right...
377
:
00:22:50
We're a half hour drive from Elkhart,
so we're down there all the time.
378
:
00:22:55
But I know we're talking a
lot about campgrounds as well.
379
:
00:22:59
And it's been amazing for us to
watch how smart campground owners
380
:
00:23:03
have become in all of this.
381
:
00:23:06
This, we just saw the Halloween
boom, and this has now turned
382
:
00:23:10
into one of the most popular.
383
:
00:23:12
Months for camping anywhere
is the month of October.
384
:
00:23:17
And, we were talking a little
while ago about how many people
385
:
00:23:19
probably camp in Thanksgiving.
386
:
00:23:21
I'd do the same thing if I owned
a campground and I was open.
387
:
00:23:24
That's the other problem is you
want to actually be in a place
388
:
00:23:26
where people could be outside.
389
:
00:23:28
So it'd be, probably South of of
Canada, be a little too cold up
390
:
00:23:33
there, but I'd promote Thanksgiving.
391
:
00:23:36
Spend Thanksgiving in your RV, bigger
sites, bigger fires, keep everything open
392
:
00:23:40
and insulate the water pipes a little bit.
393
:
00:23:43
And I think that what I, what we're
seeing is more and more people.
394
:
00:23:48
Camping all year round.
395
:
00:23:50
We get requests all the time
about camping in the wintertime.
396
:
00:23:55
Ten years ago we, my wife and I, went up
to Michigan's Upper Peninsula in January.
397
:
00:24:01
What's it like camping in the wintertime?
398
:
00:24:02
So we camp, we're the only ones in the
campground, and we invited a few people
399
:
00:24:06
to come the next year, and three or four
people joined us, and then five, and that
400
:
00:24:11
became an annual camping event that we've
done now in January with about 30 people.
401
:
00:24:16
It fills up this state park up there.
402
:
00:24:20
Since then, we have found that we really
can camp all year round in the north.
403
:
00:24:26
I'll admit, after Tampa comes, I try to
stay down south but we do camp in January.
404
:
00:24:31
And it's amazing how many other people
are, have figured out that the only
405
:
00:24:36
difference between summer and winter
camping is you don't usually have running
406
:
00:24:40
water, and you got a lot of, wear a
lot more clothes when you go outside.
407
:
00:24:44
But it's very feasible for
folks to camp in the winter.
408
:
00:24:47
Who would think that this would become
a prime time thing, if you look at
409
:
00:24:51
the campgrounds that are open in the
winter, most of them are pretty filled
410
:
00:24:55
up on weekends with winter campers maybe
RVers aren't so busy after all, right?
411
:
00:24:59
Brain Searl: We're all
a little bit, right?
412
:
00:25:01
Yeah.
413
:
00:25:02
But let's back up a minute because I'm
interested in how RV lifestyle generally
414
:
00:25:06
like, how did, I know you said how it
basically got started, but how did you
415
:
00:25:10
take that initial early success and
build upon it, diversify into YouTube,
416
:
00:25:15
from blogs into everything else, right?
417
:
00:25:17
For me, take me for example, right?
418
:
00:25:19
I would have never been where I am today
had I not piggybacked off Shane's success.
419
:
00:25:22
I just had him on my show.
420
:
00:25:24
Millions of people tuned in.
421
:
00:25:26
Everybody got to know me.
422
:
00:25:28
That's my story.
423
:
00:25:29
Mike Wendland: Shane, you want
to be on the podcast next week?
424
:
00:25:32
Shane Devenish: Yeah, don't believe Brian.
425
:
00:25:33
He wants some viewers, Mike.
426
:
00:25:36
Mike Wendland: I wish I could
claim I thought it all out
427
:
00:25:38
and planned it all out, but...
428
:
00:25:39
We did luck out in that the industry
was trying to get back on its
429
:
00:25:44
feet, back in 2012, they were still
hurting from the:
2008
430
:
00:25:49
But we started with a blog and
I am a journalist, so it's very
431
:
00:25:54
easy for me to do create content.
432
:
00:25:55
And then we started YouTube
because I wanted to document
433
:
00:26:00
and show people what we saw.
434
:
00:26:01
And then over time, both of
those picked up in popularity
435
:
00:26:05
and that led to the podcast.
436
:
00:26:08
And I realized that we really had stuff.
437
:
00:26:10
People were calling us up and I don't
have a sales department and people
438
:
00:26:13
say, Hey, we want to sponsor this.
439
:
00:26:14
And I I don't take sponsors on unless
they're long term, we don't do like a
440
:
00:26:19
monthly sponsor and people, cause I,
it's gotta be a product we agree on, but
441
:
00:26:25
it's turned into a pretty good business.
442
:
00:26:26
I have eight people now working for me.
443
:
00:26:29
In different areas from, we have
a team that has to manage, you can
444
:
00:26:33
imagine, what social media is right?
445
:
00:26:35
So 255, 000 active people on
our Facebook group, it requires
446
:
00:26:40
moderators 24 7 for that.
447
:
00:26:43
We have some writers and content creators.
448
:
00:26:46
I hired a manager to help run
the business aspects of it.
449
:
00:26:50
But up until the last three years,
it was just very serendipity.
450
:
00:26:55
But once you reach a certain
size audience, you find that
451
:
00:27:01
it just grows exponentially.
452
:
00:27:03
And I think that's um, I
don't know whose that is.
453
:
00:27:06
That's not mine.
454
:
00:27:08
Sounds like it's mine.
455
:
00:27:10
Shane Devenish: Eleanor
owes us all a beer.
456
:
00:27:12
Mike Wendland: Okay,
I'm looking for a phone.
457
:
00:27:15
But it just grew.
458
:
00:27:16
And we've, the one thing that we have done
is diversify Our audience the blog, which
459
:
00:27:23
usually gets about 300, 000 views a month.
460
:
00:27:26
Google just does, they do these
strange changes that in their algorithm
461
:
00:27:30
and it affects a lot of people.
462
:
00:27:32
And so then you move on to a different
platform to concentrate on, but we found
463
:
00:27:37
that the videos, we have about 180,
000 YouTube followers and the podcasts.
464
:
00:27:42
It gets a.
465
:
00:27:43
A little over a hundred thousand
downloads every month and then the
466
:
00:27:46
blog and then we've produced 18 books
eBooks that are travel guides to
467
:
00:27:51
different regions of North America.
468
:
00:27:53
So having all of those different
platforms one gives you, when one
469
:
00:27:59
suddenly changes and drops off, the
others will help pick that up and then
470
:
00:28:03
the others come back and all the time
it keeps to grow, it keeps growing.
471
:
00:28:08
And and that's the thing
that's been amazing.
472
:
00:28:10
The danger we face is do we become
so big that we can't travel anymore?
473
:
00:28:15
And that's what's happened to a couple
of, they call us influencers now.
474
:
00:28:20
And we've vowed that's
not going to happen to us.
475
:
00:28:22
We've, we do want to, the whole
reason we didn't do this is
476
:
00:28:24
because we like the lifestyle.
477
:
00:28:26
Brain Searl: That's what happened to me.
478
:
00:28:27
I used to do videos all the time and
I just have no time to do it anymore.
479
:
00:28:30
But also I didn't really have a
past, like a past doing videos,
480
:
00:28:34
like it sounds like you do, right?
481
:
00:28:36
So let me ask you this.
482
:
00:28:37
Does RV lifestyle always stay RV
lifestyle or do you want to go
483
:
00:28:41
glamping a couple times a year?
484
:
00:28:43
Mike Wendland: Or do I want to do what?
485
:
00:28:45
Brain Searl: You want to go glamping
a couple times a year and cover that.
486
:
00:28:48
Mike Wendland: Oh, as long as I can
do it in an RV or yeah, we can, we
487
:
00:28:52
think we just went, we have two RVs.
488
:
00:28:54
That's the other thing.
489
:
00:28:55
We try to change RVs every year.
490
:
00:28:57
So we are familiar with.
491
:
00:28:58
Many different models.
492
:
00:29:00
I have a Class C motorhome made by a
Leisure Travel Van up there in in in
493
:
00:29:06
I wanted to say Winkler, Manitoba,
and then we just bought actually we're
494
:
00:29:11
on our second one now, fifth wheel.
495
:
00:29:13
We have a Montana fifth
wheel, which is neat.
496
:
00:29:15
Talk about glamping.
497
:
00:29:16
Oh my goodness.
498
:
00:29:17
It's a condo on wheels.
499
:
00:29:19
So we, it's changed a lot.
500
:
00:29:22
We, our initial years were spent,
we did a lot of boondocking.
501
:
00:29:25
We really did.
502
:
00:29:26
And now it's a mix
between boondocking and.
503
:
00:29:29
Harvest hosts and campgrounds
that we find in the fifth
504
:
00:29:33
wheel, we want to stay longer.
505
:
00:29:35
We get to investigate the area a little
bit and do more stories about the region.
506
:
00:29:40
And we ended up two years ago, buying
some property in middle Tennessee.
507
:
00:29:46
And five acres of property and
kind of a little small mountaintop.
508
:
00:29:51
And we've put three RV sites in there,
which we don't rent them, but we use
509
:
00:29:55
them for ourselves and our friends.
510
:
00:29:57
And that becomes a little
retreat, a private retreat.
511
:
00:29:59
And we have found a huge trend
of RVers buying their own land.
512
:
00:30:04
So they always have a place
they know they can go and they
513
:
00:30:07
can stay as long as they want.
514
:
00:30:10
In this area we're in, there's
probably now a hundred other.
515
:
00:30:14
RVers from all over the country who
have bought similar sized parcels of
516
:
00:30:18
land and we're all in this general area
and it's amazing to see how many people
517
:
00:30:24
have said, this is an alternative.
518
:
00:30:26
Let's buy our own land and put
in, utilities and an RV pad.
519
:
00:30:31
So there's so many different aspects to
this is what I'm trying to get at here is
520
:
00:30:35
that it just shows no signs of lighting
up and every area is so important.
521
:
00:30:41
That's the thing.
522
:
00:30:42
And I think there's so many different
ways to diversify as we were briefly
523
:
00:30:44
talking about rentals versus sales, right?
524
:
00:30:47
Those are two paths of probably many,
but that's people are buying smaller
525
:
00:30:52
trailers versus bigger trailers.
526
:
00:30:54
Yeah.
527
:
00:30:54
And so I think that diversification, that
openness, that willingness to adjust.
528
:
00:31:01
On a perview per state, per area,
per location basis is what's
529
:
00:31:05
really gonna help this industry
continue to thrive in the future.
530
:
00:31:08
Maybe.
531
:
00:31:08
Maybe that's maybe that means some of
you don't change, but certainly I'm
532
:
00:31:12
not saying everybody needs to change.
533
:
00:31:15
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah.
534
:
00:31:15
I think, one of the things that, you know,
and I've been doing this for 25 years now.
535
:
00:31:21
Is when I started, it seemed like people
were really focused on bigger units.
536
:
00:31:28
In fact, we would pursue legislation
to make them allow bigger units.
537
:
00:31:33
But over the last, and I think Mike,
since the downturn and the industry's
538
:
00:31:38
recovery over the last, 12 years.
539
:
00:31:41
We've seen the manufacturers
and the dealers embrace the
540
:
00:31:44
diversity of use of products.
541
:
00:31:47
And a lot of the volume has been driven
by a smaller more towable travel trailers.
542
:
00:31:54
That's where a lot of the volume is.
543
:
00:31:56
And and there really is
something for everyone.
544
:
00:32:00
Whereas, when I started,
you'd go to a dealership and
545
:
00:32:03
everything big was up front.
546
:
00:32:04
They'd hide the, hide some of
the smaller units in the back.
547
:
00:32:07
Oh yeah, we do have some of those.
548
:
00:32:09
Now, it's almost completely flipped.
549
:
00:32:13
You see the lot more
affordable product up front.
550
:
00:32:17
Yes, you can buy an RV, you can be, this
could be you, type of messaging that, go
551
:
00:32:23
RVing is done, but also the dealers and
the manufacturers to bring more people in.
552
:
00:32:29
And recognize that, not everybody is
going to buy the biggest motor home
553
:
00:32:34
or the biggest travel trailer they
can and just make it more accessible
554
:
00:32:39
for millions of more North Americans.
555
:
00:32:43
Mike Wendland: Our first maybe the
first five years that we have been doing
556
:
00:32:47
this we spent the Van Life movement.
557
:
00:32:50
We watched that come in.
558
:
00:32:52
We watched the, the whole.
559
:
00:32:55
Possibility to boondock once we've
had lithium batteries and solar panels
560
:
00:33:00
and the ability to literally be off
the grid for days and sometimes if
561
:
00:33:06
you have enough, weeks at a time.
562
:
00:33:08
Phil Ingrassia: And then, we have
now seen a lot of the vanlifers,
563
:
00:33:12
they've gotten older and they've
moved into into Class Cs.
564
:
00:33:17
Some smaller, those, the whole
small Class A movement in motorhomes
565
:
00:33:22
has been pretty amazing to watch.
566
:
00:33:24
we've seen more people move
into towables and fifth wheels.
567
:
00:33:28
And there is a progression in that,
that, and I don't know if that was there
568
:
00:33:32
always Phil and Eleanor, I don't know
whether you guys have always seen that
569
:
00:33:35
in, from dealers that people would move
from one to another, or if that is now.
570
:
00:33:40
Kind of the maturing of the
RV consumer market as well.
571
:
00:33:43
But we, I've watched them,
you can see them almost grow.
572
:
00:33:46
Okay, it's about time for
you guys to get a towable.
573
:
00:33:48
And that's indeed what they do,
and you watch and move on and up.
574
:
00:33:53
No more one RV for the
rest of our life, a thing.
575
:
00:33:56
Eleonore Hamm: Yeah, we've seen that.
576
:
00:33:57
That's been ongoing for as
long as I've been here as well.
577
:
00:34:00
It's some of the dealers said first
of all, it became bigger, and then
578
:
00:34:02
it became a little bit smaller.
579
:
00:34:04
As you go through your journey,
you may start off with a smaller
580
:
00:34:06
travel trailer with your kids and
then your kids get a little bigger.
581
:
00:34:09
You need a little bit more space.
582
:
00:34:10
Then, as as it's just couples, they
might go into the fifth wheel and then,
583
:
00:34:14
and then transition back to a class B.
584
:
00:34:17
Definitely, I don't know what the
average ownership of an RV is it's only
585
:
00:34:21
about three or four years, I think.
586
:
00:34:22
So before people move on
to another product type.
587
:
00:34:28
Brain Searl: Interesting to hear you
guys thoughts on something again,
588
:
00:34:30
I'm just brushing my mind up coming
from the Camping Inventory Convention
589
:
00:34:34
and their keynote speaker was Earl
Hunter from Black Folks Camp 2.
590
:
00:34:39
And he was talking about the virtue,
equity, and inclusion and streaming.
591
:
00:34:42
You guys have heard of him before and he's
attempting to do in the industry, which
592
:
00:34:46
I think is a good thing, but how do we.
593
:
00:34:48
And not even specifically
to black folks, right?
594
:
00:34:53
How do we, as an industry, reach out
to those who don't normally purchase
595
:
00:34:57
RVs, who don't normally go camping,
and make sure, and this is like young
596
:
00:35:01
people who live in urban areas, right?
597
:
00:35:05
White people who aren't camping
in the numbers that their
598
:
00:35:08
grandparents did, because they're
diversifying their vacations.
599
:
00:35:11
But how do we reach out to those
people and explain to them the
600
:
00:35:15
benefits of the RV lifestyle, so
they're not just becoming lampers?
601
:
00:35:22
Mike Wendland: From our standpoint,
just show them what it's like.
602
:
00:35:27
The like two generations down, I guess
it'd be the, everybody was talking
603
:
00:35:31
about the millennials and I think the
millennials have adopted this great.
604
:
00:35:35
So it's the generation after them
and the exes that I think that they
605
:
00:35:41
have picked up on this on their own.
606
:
00:35:43
There's this great interest
in the environment and the
607
:
00:35:45
outdoors, and there is no.
608
:
00:35:48
Better way to truly experience the
outdoor than through the RV lifestyle.
609
:
00:35:54
I think, the go RVing campaigns have
been right on pretty much on all of them.
610
:
00:36:00
I think if I was a dealer, I would post
as many photos as I can on my website
611
:
00:36:07
and at my locations that show people.
612
:
00:36:11
Camping.
613
:
00:36:12
I noticed General RV has
just done a big section.
614
:
00:36:16
They've hired a chef and they're doing a
bunch of videos showing cooking outside,
615
:
00:36:22
which is another thing that is, you can
do anything from Dutch oven at a campfire
616
:
00:36:26
and people are more sophisticated.
617
:
00:36:28
The foodie element of RVing is there.
618
:
00:36:31
so Show the use of an
RV and just how, yeah.
619
:
00:36:36
Awesome it is, whether it's a family,
how close you become when you camp,
620
:
00:36:41
whether you're a solo we guess about
15 percent of all of our audience
621
:
00:36:47
are solo travelers, are many of them
widows, many of them divorced many just
622
:
00:36:54
single folks who have gone out and are
now, being able to work remotely or
623
:
00:36:59
if they're retired they're traveling.
624
:
00:37:01
These aren't people who are
marginal, they're not sleeping in
625
:
00:37:05
a Walmart parking lot every night.
626
:
00:37:06
There are people who have pretty
good incomes, but they have
627
:
00:37:09
adopted the nomadic lifestyle.
628
:
00:37:13
15% I think that's probably pretty
true of all of the RVs out there.
629
:
00:37:18
If you looked at all the statistics,
but just go to RV rally and
630
:
00:37:23
you'll see how many people, how
many solo travelers there are.
631
:
00:37:27
That's a great market.
632
:
00:37:29
All of the groups, the niche groups that
have developed around them, for example,
633
:
00:37:33
that the solo female, and most of the
solo travelers are female, are women.
634
:
00:37:38
I'm thinking of Sisters on the Fly and two
or three other groups like that are huge.
635
:
00:37:44
Let me push, I
636
:
00:37:45
Brain Searl: just want to push for
a second and you guys can agree,
637
:
00:37:47
disagree with me if you want.
638
:
00:37:50
And this is not really me, this is
just what I heard Earl say and a
639
:
00:37:52
few other people at the conference
who have tried to expand upon this.
640
:
00:37:56
I think the RV industry has done a great
job of doing everything you just said.
641
:
00:37:59
So go RV, it's a great organization,
great campaigns and commercials.
642
:
00:38:04
There's tons of Facebook groups and pages
like yours and others who do a good job
643
:
00:38:09
of regularly promoting the camping and RV
lifestyle and all those kinds of things.
644
:
00:38:14
Enjoy the outdoors.
645
:
00:38:15
But there are a lot of people.
646
:
00:38:16
A lot of people in this country who
never even consider the outdoors, like
647
:
00:38:21
it never crosses their mind that's
something they can do, or they associate
648
:
00:38:25
it just with tenting, or, right?
649
:
00:38:28
And so I think there in some ways needs
to be a concerted effort to educate people
650
:
00:38:34
that the outdoors is a good experience,
generally speaking, which then leads to
651
:
00:38:39
In our case of our conversation, purchases
of RVs, rentals of RVs down the road,
652
:
00:38:44
there are a lot of people who don't even
consider this, and they're not going to
653
:
00:38:47
go to those Facebook groups, they're not
going to turn on, and demographically
654
:
00:38:52
I know this right, they're not going
to turn on country music television and
655
:
00:38:55
watch the GoRVing commercial, they're
going to be on the urban, and GoRVing is
656
:
00:38:59
not putting ads there as far as I know.
657
:
00:39:02
So how do we do that?
658
:
00:39:03
How do we make that work
is what I'm trying to say.
659
:
00:39:05
Mike Wendland: I don't, I think that
there's a certain, the RV lifestyle
660
:
00:39:09
is great, it's not for everybody.
661
:
00:39:11
And I think that
662
:
00:39:12
Brain Searl: I think it's for a lot
more people than we're currently.
663
:
00:39:15
I really believe that.
664
:
00:39:16
Mike Wendland: I don't think the industry
can handle a lot more people right now.
665
:
00:39:20
I think the real reason you're
probably not seeing it is, number one.
666
:
00:39:25
The elephant in the room is that if
you are, if you don't have cash, you're
667
:
00:39:30
going to pay an incredible amount
of money to finance something that,
668
:
00:39:34
you're probably only going to use for
three or four years before you either
669
:
00:39:37
trade up or say that's enough for me.
670
:
00:39:41
But there are, and it's always been
that way, that there are a lot of
671
:
00:39:44
people that don't like outdoors.
672
:
00:39:47
They don't go hiking, they don't go
fishing, they don't take photographs.
673
:
00:39:51
They like to go to the clubs and
they like the urban lifestyle.
674
:
00:39:55
And I don't, I think that it is
a lifestyle that is truly not for
675
:
00:40:00
everybody because we've run into
a lot of people who've gotten
676
:
00:40:04
into it, have been talked into it.
677
:
00:40:06
And, and I think we find that
after about seven months.
678
:
00:40:11
People, there's a drop off of a
certain percentage of people say,
679
:
00:40:14
that is not, that's too much work.
680
:
00:40:17
But that's a drop off
of a certain percentage.
681
:
00:40:19
So if you take, let's just make up a
number, if you take a hundred people out
682
:
00:40:22
of it, and we're just going to make up an
area, we would like the nightlife, like
683
:
00:40:27
you said, or clubbing or whatever else.
684
:
00:40:29
And they've never thought
about the outdoors.
685
:
00:40:31
If you bring a hundred of those into
the RV industry and there's a 60
686
:
00:40:34
percent drop off, 70 percent drop
off, that's still 30 new people in
687
:
00:40:38
the RV industry, it's a win, right?
688
:
00:40:41
I think it's, I agree with you.
689
:
00:40:42
I don't think we want, I don't think
you're ever going to convince everyone
690
:
00:40:48
to like the RV industry lifestyle.
691
:
00:40:49
That's not my argument.
692
:
00:40:51
My argument is how do we make sure
that everybody might like it as the
693
:
00:40:55
opportunity to see it as an option
and then choose for themselves because
694
:
00:41:00
a lot of people see it as an option.
695
:
00:41:02
Phil Ingrassia: In the U.
696
:
00:41:03
S., I think that it's been
recognized by the outdoor recreation
697
:
00:41:12
It's not just an RV problem or a
camping problem, it's an overall
698
:
00:41:17
outdoor recreation problem.
699
:
00:41:19
Brain Searl: Yes.
700
:
00:41:20
Phil Ingrassia: And see...
701
:
00:41:21
In the U.
702
:
00:41:21
S.
703
:
00:41:22
there's a concerted effort to to
get more people outside in general.
704
:
00:41:29
Get them away from screens
and get them to enjoy that.
705
:
00:41:33
But the issue that we found in study
after study is if they don't grow up
706
:
00:41:39
doing things outside, if they don't
grow up fishing, if they don't have
707
:
00:41:42
access to that kind of activity,
it's very difficult once you've.
708
:
00:41:50
You've hit a certain age to get people
to want to do that kind of activity.
709
:
00:41:56
noW, before it was always what's the
ROI on these youth outreach things?
710
:
00:42:01
We don't want to spend money on
something that's going to take 15 years.
711
:
00:42:04
15 years...
712
:
00:42:06
Where are you?
713
:
00:42:06
If you don't start now, what, where
are you going to be in 15 years?
714
:
00:42:10
So through the Outdoor
Recreation Roundtable in the U.
715
:
00:42:13
S., we've Thor Industries has been a big
funder of this effort Together Outdoors,
716
:
00:42:20
where we're trying to provide access to
more youth groups, inner city type folks,
717
:
00:42:27
some scholarships, things like that.
718
:
00:42:30
But, it is, it's a very difficult.
719
:
00:42:33
issue to, to deal with.
720
:
00:42:36
And it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and
we are, but I think there's got to be more
721
:
00:42:41
emphasis on outdoor activities for youth.
722
:
00:42:46
Otherwise we're going to be, we, the
five people 15 years from now could be
723
:
00:42:50
having this exact same conversation.
724
:
00:42:53
And I think part of it is, What
are the public land agencies
725
:
00:42:57
doing to encourage urban, it's
not just an outdoor activities.
726
:
00:43:03
And then what is the
industry doing, itself?
727
:
00:43:06
anD so I think it's a multi pronged
approach to To try to to try to get
728
:
00:43:11
people outside, especially young folks
between the ages of 5 and 15, get them
729
:
00:43:18
an outdoor experience that, that, right
away so that they're, they have a frame of
730
:
00:43:23
reference for later in life when they be,
when they might be making discretionary
731
:
00:43:28
or outdoor travel purchase decisions.
732
:
00:43:32
Brain Searl: And to be fair, like I knew
the RV industry, including some of that,
733
:
00:43:35
which is I'm not saying you're not right.
734
:
00:43:37
It's great.
735
:
00:43:37
Everything that you're doing.
736
:
00:43:38
And I think.
737
:
00:43:40
Because I don't know enough about
the RV industry to know that, right?
738
:
00:43:43
I think that's an educated statement,
but I think that's the fundamentals
739
:
00:43:47
of that 15 years of building up that.
740
:
00:43:51
If you don't need to go camping, I'm
sorry, I almost said I broke, you don't
741
:
00:43:54
need to go camping once, you need to
go camping repeatedly, and I think
742
:
00:43:58
it's almost like your parents need
to be educated to take you camping.
743
:
00:44:01
Mike Wendland: Let me take just a
little different approach, and I think
744
:
00:44:07
that what you're, what we're saying
is an unprecedented, a continually, a
745
:
00:44:12
continuing unprecedented RV lifestyle.
746
:
00:44:15
By the general population, it is growing.
747
:
00:44:18
Some days we have a thousand people
try and join our Facebook group
748
:
00:44:22
in one day, a thousand people.
749
:
00:44:25
However, I think that what is more
important than reaching out to urban
750
:
00:44:31
kids to go out so outside is to
make sure that those who are in the
751
:
00:44:36
lifestyle now have a good experience.
752
:
00:44:39
And by that, the deplorable condition
of, I would say, the majority of
753
:
00:44:45
private campgrounds in this country.
754
:
00:44:47
Now, I know I'm stepping on
toes at something that's called
755
:
00:44:52
Modern Campground, and I...
756
:
00:44:53
Oh, so am I.
757
:
00:44:55
But I'm telling you, it is deplorable.
758
:
00:44:58
There are campsites that are rented at
60 bucks a night that are on a slant
759
:
00:45:04
like that, aging pedestals, and I know
there's a lot of campgrounds that are
760
:
00:45:09
doing as best they can to renovate, but
when people rent a spot, and you know
761
:
00:45:15
how hard it is to rent a spot, I mean
it's, that's the number one complaint I
762
:
00:45:19
get from RVers is that we, we can't, we
don't know what we're going to be doing
763
:
00:45:23
a year from now, we can't renovate,
we can't reserve a year in advance.
764
:
00:45:26
When they finally get one and they
have one of these experiences.
765
:
00:45:29
Or they get in a campground and
they find that there's no security
766
:
00:45:32
at the campground at night.
767
:
00:45:34
There's nobody from the front office
who's doing any patrolling at all
768
:
00:45:38
to make sure there's no rowdiness.
769
:
00:45:40
These kinds of experiences.
770
:
00:45:43
Echo through the public,
they'll come back.
771
:
00:45:46
Hey, we were there.
772
:
00:45:47
It was horrible.
773
:
00:45:48
For every good experience, that brings
in a new camper, a bad experience
774
:
00:45:53
is going to probably, if people talk
about the bad more than the good,
775
:
00:45:56
they're probably going to turn off.
776
:
00:45:57
Brain Searl: Of course they do.
777
:
00:45:58
That's human psychology, right?
778
:
00:45:59
But that's not just campgrounds.
779
:
00:46:00
Like you're not wrong.
780
:
00:46:02
You're not wrong.
781
:
00:46:03
thEre are a lot of bad
private campgrounds.
782
:
00:46:05
There are a lot of good
private campgrounds.
783
:
00:46:07
There are a lot of bad
public and good public.
784
:
00:46:08
There are a lot of bad RV manufacturers
and good RV manufacturers.
785
:
00:46:11
And so you're right.
786
:
00:46:12
The impression is everything.
787
:
00:46:13
Mike Wendland: Yeah so that I
think is the key to the future is
788
:
00:46:17
to give people a good experience.
789
:
00:46:20
On the dealership level another big
frustration and I understand the reasons.
790
:
00:46:24
I, that's gotta be one of the
toughest jobs in the world to
791
:
00:46:27
be a dealer an RV dealer today.
792
:
00:46:28
But when people have a problem and
they call up and they say, We can't
793
:
00:46:33
fix your RV for two weeks and, I'm 200
miles from home and I need a new water
794
:
00:46:40
pump, and tough, we can't get you in.
795
:
00:46:43
That hurts.
796
:
00:46:44
That hurts a whole lot.
797
:
00:46:45
And, the other big factor that I
think has hurt the industry people
798
:
00:46:50
are still coming into the industry.
799
:
00:46:52
There's still more interest than there is.
800
:
00:46:54
People turn it away, but the other factor
is the general quality of the RVs that
801
:
00:47:00
were built in the COVID years in the, in
:
2020
802
:
00:47:06
And the industry, I think is realizing
that, but still quality remains an issue.
803
:
00:47:12
Dealer service is a big
issue and bad campgrounds.
804
:
00:47:16
If we had, if we could handle
those three things, I know.
805
:
00:47:20
That that would do a whole lot more
than holding an urban camp about
806
:
00:47:24
bringing a five year old kid outside.
807
:
00:47:26
And those are important to do, but we're
talking the big things with the industry.
808
:
00:47:30
It's those three things, and I'm telling
you that as a consumer not as an industry.
809
:
00:47:34
Brain Searl: I don't disagree, and
I want to give Phil and Eleanor
810
:
00:47:37
and Shana a chance to address the
service things, because I know they've
811
:
00:47:40
worked leaps and bounds in how we're
addressing that and things like that.
812
:
00:47:43
But I think...
813
:
00:47:44
I don't know that I agree with you that
all three things are important there.
814
:
00:47:46
I think it's equally as important to
try to get urban kids outdoors, right?
815
:
00:47:50
But that's just my opinion.
816
:
00:47:52
I'm not saying I'm right.
817
:
00:47:52
It's just what I think.
818
:
00:47:53
Mike Wendland: What you're asking
about the industry as a whole,
819
:
00:47:55
and I'm telling you, the industry
doesn't address these three issues.
820
:
00:47:59
That's going to have a much more...
821
:
00:48:01
There's no better detrimental effect
on the industry than getting five
822
:
00:48:04
year old kids to like the outdoors.
823
:
00:48:06
And it's just common sense, Brian.
824
:
00:48:09
It's just common sense.
825
:
00:48:11
Brain Searl: Let's give the industry a
chance to defend itself for a second.
826
:
00:48:15
I don't disagree with you.
827
:
00:48:17
But let's give the industry, like
the dealers for service and for
828
:
00:48:20
pain if you want to comment too.
829
:
00:48:22
What do you guys think of this?
830
:
00:48:24
Shane Devenish: I Don't
disagree with Mike at all.
831
:
00:48:26
I there there's current problems.
832
:
00:48:28
There's issues that we're all aware of.
833
:
00:48:31
And then to Phil's point, you need to...
834
:
00:48:33
to get the pipeline, create the
pipeline for newer buyers down the road.
835
:
00:48:38
So they're both issues.
836
:
00:48:40
One's today and one's the future, but
they're both very important for the,
837
:
00:48:44
the long the long, success for us all.
838
:
00:48:47
Mike, I'm curious, have you spent
much time up here in Canada?
839
:
00:48:52
Traveling around?
840
:
00:48:54
Mike Wendland: Not in the
last couple, not since COVID.
841
:
00:48:57
But probably I'll be up
there a lot next year.
842
:
00:49:00
We're doing a, we're leading
a big tour of the Maritimes.
843
:
00:49:03
And then we're going to probably spend
most of the rest of the summer I'm going
844
:
00:49:07
west from there, but up until COVID
and the shutdowns, I was there all the
845
:
00:49:11
time because I'm based in Michigan.
846
:
00:49:13
I've got the Blue Water
Bridge and Sault Ste.
847
:
00:49:16
Marie and I'm there.
848
:
00:49:17
And we still think of Canada as
God's country down here, even
849
:
00:49:20
though we have the upper planets
of Michigan, but it's Canada.
850
:
00:49:24
Shane Devenish: So those campground
remarks are south of the border then?
851
:
00:49:27
Mike Wendland: No, it's true.
852
:
00:49:28
Shane Devenish: I'm kidding.
853
:
00:49:28
Mike Wendland: You know that.
854
:
00:49:29
You know that.
855
:
00:49:30
Shane Devenish: I'm kidding.
856
:
00:49:31
Mike Wendland: Yeah you have the
most beautiful provincial parks,
857
:
00:49:36
though, that I think put some of
our national parks to shame, really,
858
:
00:49:41
in terms of access and beauty.
859
:
00:49:44
The provincial parks are,
in Canada, are just amazing.
860
:
00:49:48
They rival the national parks
that we're used to in the U.
861
:
00:49:50
S.,
862
:
00:49:51
Eleonore Hamm: thank you.
863
:
00:49:53
Yeah, from dealerships, we understand
that the service side and, it's been an
864
:
00:49:57
industry issue that we've been trying to
get, more people, it's a red seal trade
865
:
00:50:01
in Canada, more RV service technicians,
more people in the industry it's something
866
:
00:50:06
we dedicate a lot of resources to, to
try to talk about the career paths,
867
:
00:50:10
And people, yes, are using RVs, but
they do need to get fixed and to get,
868
:
00:50:15
it's, if you asked our dealers, it's
probably one of, one of their challenges
869
:
00:50:18
is to find enough technicians, right?
870
:
00:50:20
And so it's it's definitely something
we're aware of and we know as an industry,
871
:
00:50:24
we need to continue to address and
continue to build on so that, consumers do
872
:
00:50:28
stay in the lifestyle because we attract
them, but we need to ensure that, that we
873
:
00:50:33
do, that they do have a great experience.
874
:
00:50:36
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, the service
issue is really front and center
875
:
00:50:40
for I know for RVDA in the U.
876
:
00:50:43
S.
877
:
00:50:43
and I know for Canada as well.
878
:
00:50:45
And it's a capacity issue and more
service bays are needed, but you need
879
:
00:50:51
to have techs to put in those bays.
880
:
00:50:54
And then it's also a supply chain issue.
881
:
00:50:56
We've got to, in our industry,
figure out how to get.
882
:
00:51:01
Parts to the dealers in time,
accurately, so that they can
883
:
00:51:08
get RVers back on the road.
884
:
00:51:10
And, right now the big buzzword in the
industry is repair event cycle time.
885
:
00:51:16
And that's the time, when you
bring in your RV, Mike, and
886
:
00:51:20
time it takes to get fixed.
887
:
00:51:22
And before you can take it
home and go camping again.
888
:
00:51:25
We're well aware of that, I think.
889
:
00:51:27
There's probably more effort in that
area right now than there ever has been.
890
:
00:51:32
And we just invited 1.
891
:
00:51:35
5 million new RVers over the last three
years, um, into the industry and we owe it
892
:
00:51:42
to them to do a better job on repair event
cycle time and getting people through.
893
:
00:51:48
But there's some other
issues that we're having and.
894
:
00:51:52
tHe care and feeding of new technicians
is a big one of those as well.
895
:
00:52:01
Mike Wendland: I think one of the
hardest things it seems to me for a
896
:
00:52:04
dealer would be, it's still a very
seasonal business for everybody north
897
:
00:52:10
of that Mason Dixon line and trying to
maintain a staff for the peak season and
898
:
00:52:16
then still have people that will work.
899
:
00:52:19
I Can't imagine those challenges.
900
:
00:52:22
I did notice that some of the
industry training groups were
901
:
00:52:25
doing some pretty cool things.
902
:
00:52:26
They were reaching out in some of
our prisons and training new techs.
903
:
00:52:31
We're seeing a national and in the
U S and I would suspect in Canada as
904
:
00:52:36
well, although I don't know for sure,
an emphasis on vocational training.
905
:
00:52:41
And boy, right now, being an RV
tech, that's pretty good, that's
906
:
00:52:45
a pretty good in demand job.
907
:
00:52:48
So I think more publicity to those
opportunities, those employment
908
:
00:52:52
opportunities would sure help.
909
:
00:52:58
Brain Searl: All right, guys.
910
:
00:52:58
We have two minutes left.
911
:
00:52:59
Any final thoughts here from our
recurring guests or from Mike?
912
:
00:53:08
Shane Devenish: Yeah, no, it's been
great to hear Mike's perspective because
913
:
00:53:10
he's, has, so much, um, experience
and touches so many people out there.
914
:
00:53:16
It's really good to hear your
perspective on everything, Mike.
915
:
00:53:21
Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, Mike I've
seen your material over the years.
916
:
00:53:23
I just didn't realize how
much it has grown in just a
917
:
00:53:27
relatively short period of time.
918
:
00:53:29
It's Quite impressive the number
of folks you have involved.
919
:
00:53:33
Mike Wendland: Yeah, it's, as
it's a really fun industry.
920
:
00:53:37
It's really just fun to be a part of all
this and to be able to, make a living
921
:
00:53:43
going out and And touring we didn't talk
at all, but the whole idea of remote work
922
:
00:53:49
is, and I want to, that's where I've seen
a great improvement in our campgrounds.
923
:
00:53:54
So the ability to let people work
from the road by improving their
924
:
00:53:58
internet access at campgrounds, uh,
that's sure been a game changer.
925
:
00:54:03
And to get more people into the
industry, one other thing that Brian,
926
:
00:54:07
I think that would help is to continue
to advocate for remote work, because
927
:
00:54:13
as more people urge their people back
into the office, that means they aren't
928
:
00:54:17
going to be out there in their RVs.
929
:
00:54:18
And beauty is you.
930
:
00:54:20
You can do just about, most of our
service are, in our information age
931
:
00:54:24
economy, you can do most jobs, many
jobs from anywhere, including an RV.
932
:
00:54:30
So that's a great thing
to keep pushing for.
933
:
00:54:33
Brain Searl: 100 percent agree with you.
934
:
00:54:34
Yeah.
935
:
00:54:35
Oh, all thank you guys for joining us
for another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
936
:
00:54:38
Dave, Eleanor, Bill, our regular
guests, really appreciate
937
:
00:54:41
you being here as always.
938
:
00:54:42
Mike, it was great to hear from you.
939
:
00:54:43
And you can tell once in a
while, I have strong opinions.
940
:
00:54:46
But that doesn't mean I'm right?
941
:
00:54:47
I just like pushing back and hearing
different dialogue, and it's great
942
:
00:54:50
to hear your perspective, too.
943
:
00:54:51
Again, I'm never saying I'm right,
I'm just saying that this is where
944
:
00:54:54
I currently believe now, right?
945
:
00:54:55
So it's great to hear from that side, too.
946
:
00:54:58
Mike Wendland: Great
to hear from you guys.
947
:
00:54:59
Thank you so much.
948
:
00:55:00
Shane Devenish: Happy thanksgiving.
949
:
00:55:02
Brain Searl: Happy thanksgiving.
950
:
00:55:04
Phil Ingrassia: Happy Holidays.
951
:
00:55:05
Mike Wendland: Bye bye, everybody.