In a recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl, from Insider Perks and Modern Campground, led a discussion on key trends and insights shaping the outdoor hospitality and recreation industry. The panel included industry experts such as Simon Neal from CampMap, Scott Bahr from Cairn Consulting Group, Eleonore Hamm and Phil Ingrassia representing the RVDA of Canada and the United States, respectively, and Rafael Correa from Blue Water. Special guests included Whitney Scott from Walden and Steph Curtis-Raleigh from the Glamping Show USA and Glamping Business in Americas.

The discussion kicked off with Rafael Correa's observation of a "late summer burst of consumer demand" across Blue Water’s portfolio, a welcome change after a relatively soft spring and early summer. The fall season is also trending positively, driven by "leaf peeping season, Halloween festivities and all that kind of good stuff."

Steph Curtis-Raleigh provided an international perspective, noting that bookings in the UK have been slower than usual this summer. She suggested that consumers might be looking for more unique offerings, a sentiment echoed by Scott Bahr, who referenced his research showing that while the desire for uniqueness has slightly waned from its peak, it remains a significant driver for a third of the market. This shift suggests a move away from the novelty of glamping toward a preference for unique experiences, amenities, and services.

The conversation then delved into the differences between the UK and U.S. glamping markets. According to Steph, the UK market is predominantly "mom and pop" businesses with a focus on a "lifestyle business" model, often with five or fewer units on a site. In contrast, the U.S. market, driven by its "entrepreneurial spirit," is characterized by bigger, more ambitious projects with a scaling mindset, often attracting investors from finance and tech backgrounds. Whitney Scott agreed, stating that while smaller operations are still the majority, their mindset from the start is often geared toward scaling. Rafael Correa added that in Blue Water’s RV resort portfolio, the glamping components have shown growth and resilience even when RV demand was softer.

Rafael also offered insights on differentiation for campgrounds and RV parks looking to integrate glamping. He highlighted that properties can differentiate themselves through location, service offerings, and amenities, citing the example of a Blue Water RV park in Luray, Virginia, with a water park, pickleball courts, and river access. For properties without the capital for large-scale amenities, he suggested focusing on the glamping unit itself, making it "super duper nice," or providing a high-touch, concierge-like experience that connects guests with local activities, a model he attributed to brands like Under Canvas.

Phil Ingrassia and Eleonore Hamm, from the RVDA, emphasized the strong connection between the RV and glamping industries. Phil noted that their research indicates about 11% of those who intend to buy an RV have previously rented an outdoor-related accommodation. Whitney Scott reinforced this, explaining that Airstreams and other RVs are a significant part of the glamping world and that the consumer is not "siloed," often exploring the outdoors through both glamping and RVing.

Miguel Huerta provided an update from Mexico, where he noted a 20% decrease in demand for hotel rooms, but only a 4% decrease for glamping. He sees increased interest from institutional players like Accor and stressed the importance of the "Five P's of Marketing"—place, product, promotion, price, and people—for success. He specifically warned against fighting for market share based on price alone.

The discussion also touched on the future of glamping, with Steph mentioning a steady growth in the luxury end of the market, which operates more like a hotel with spas and restaurants. She also noted a trend toward hands-off, technology-driven operations. Simon Neal shared a story from a European campground that leased space to two different glamping operators: one with mass-produced, closely packed tents and another with a limited number of high-quality, secluded units, both labeled as "glamping" but offering vastly different experiences. This, he said, highlights the importance of "small touches" and creating a "special feel."

Whitney Scott explained how Walden is helping the industry with data and intelligence, including a new product called "The Lot" that helps evaluate land for outdoor hospitality development. She also announced a new "consumer report for outdoor accommodations" that aims to simplify the buying process by categorizing the thousands of glamping products available. The sheer number of manufacturers, over 750 in the U.S. alone, highlights the creative and innovative nature of the industry.

The conversation also touched on the complex relationship between conservation and development. Whitney Scott spoke about Walden's work in tracking policy changes, such as the shortening of public response periods for developments on federal lands. She also highlighted the "Great American Outdoors Act," which funds conservation through oil money, and the growing trend of public-private partnerships, citing Amazon's investment in an RV park in Oregon. This led to a consensus that the industry's success is tied to striking a balance between development and respecting nature.

This discussion is important for the outdoor hospitality industry because it provides a comprehensive snapshot of its current health and future direction. It shows that while the market is maturing, with some segments experiencing a slowdown, there is a clear path to success through differentiation and a focus on the guest experience. The cross-pollination between the glamping and RV industries, as well as the growing professionalization of glamping, means that all sectors of outdoor recreation are interconnected. Understanding these trends, from consumer behavior to policy changes and new business models, is crucial for operators and investors alike to thrive in an increasingly competitive landscape.

Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

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My name is Brian Searl with Insider

Perks and Modern Campground.

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Excited to welcome you here

to our first week episode.

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We're gonna talk about some industry

trends and insights as we normally do.

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So we have some of our

great recurring guests here.

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We have Simon Neal from CampMap, Scott

Bahr from Cairn Consulting Group,

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Eleonore and Phil from RVDA of Canada

and the United States respectively.

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And we have two special guests.

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We have Whitney Scott from Walden.

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Whitney, I still after all these

years, want to call you Whitney Hep,

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like it's just, I don't know, I've

just, I'm old and I can't get outta

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my head, but Whitney Scott and Steph

Curtis-Raleigh from the Glamping Show

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USA, Glamping Business in Americas,

who's the co-conference director.

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Is that right?

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Steph Curtis-Raleigh: That's correct.

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Brian Searl: New co-conference director.

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Like David has blissfully sailed off

into retirement, wherever David is.

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So Steph's leading the charge.

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We're gonna hear about all about

the Glamping Business Americas, the

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Glamping Show USA later on in the show.

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So do we wanna go around and

just briefly introduce ourselves?

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Phil, you wanna start?

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Phil Ingrassia: Hi everybody.

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I'm Phil Ingrassia, president

of the RV Dealers Association.

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We represent US motor home

and travel trailer dealers.

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Brian Searl: Whoever wants to go next.

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Keep it rolling.

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No?

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You're gonna make me call on you.

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Okay.

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Eleonore

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Eleonore Hamm: Brian, just my

phone's ringing in the background,

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which is why I didn't jump on.

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Brian Searl: It makes you

look more busy than you are.

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Eleonore Hamm: Yes, exactly.

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Hi, I'm Eleonore Hamm, president

of the RV Dealers Association of

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Canada, and work closely with Phil.

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And again, we represent

the dealers in Canada.

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Brian Searl: Do you think I should get

a phone so people think I'm busy too?

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Eleonore Hamm: We still

have landlines Hey.

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Brian Searl: Yeah Simon.

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Simon Neal: Hi, I am Simon,

the founder of CampMap.

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We help outdoor hospitality businesses

around the world improve marketing

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and guest experience with professional

digital and printable maps.

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Brian Searl: Thanks for being here.

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As always, Simon.

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Scott.

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Scott Bahr: Scott Bahr, Cairn Consulting

Group . We're market research organization

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that measures all the different aspects

of outdoor hospitality from a lot of

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different perspectives, so I don't even.

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Brian Searl: What is your hat?

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Camping Advisory Network.

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Okay.

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Scott Bahr: Yeah.

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Have I heard of that before?

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Maybe not.

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I don't know.

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It's something that I've been messing

around with for a while and I needed

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a hat today as Whitney pointed out,

because the of the mess that's behind me.

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And so I grabbed this one and we.

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Brian Searl: Have you done some market

research into how bald is beautiful.

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I'm not saying there's anything over here

to look at, just suggesting that it's.

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Scott Bahr: And you were talking about

looking like you're busy, Brian, you're

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one step away from being in a recliner,

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Brian Searl: I could probably do

something like that and prop my feet up.

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There's a monitor up there somewhere.

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Thanks for being here as always, Scott.

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Then we have two special guests.

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Let's start with Whitney from Walden.

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Whitney Scott: I am Whitney from Walden.

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I'm founder and principal here.

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We are a marketing intelligence

company for the outdoor industry,

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not just outdoor hospitality, but

outdoor recreation, conservation.

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So we look across the industry from a data

perspective and we have data products to

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facilitate the B2B world of our industry.

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Brian Searl: And obviously

you're successful.

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You have a corner suite with a nice view

there that gave you access for the window.

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So.

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Whitney Scott: Yeah, I got to

look at my babies all day long.

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Yeah.

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Brian Searl: I'm just in a

dark corner here with a black

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wall and yeah, so welcome.

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I'm excited to talk to you about Walden

and some of this, and know you're

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gonna be at the Glamping Show too.

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Yeah.

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Miguel, welcome.

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I thought you were at

a trade show, Miguel?

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Miguel Huerta: Hello?

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No, I was able to make it.

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I didn't take into consideration the the

time zone difference, but I'm excited.

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We have great news for the

upcoming Glamping Show, something

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that we're throwing with the

American Glamping Association.

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So the Mexican and the American

Glamping Association are working

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like this, so everything is great.

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Brian Searl: Nice.

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Are you gonna be up here in Denver?

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Miguel Huerta: Yeah, for sure.

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My wife, sadly she won't be able

to make it because we're on the

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verge of having our first baby.

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But I'll be there.

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Brian Searl: All right.

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As long as we can go to the bar and drink,

that's all that really matters, right?

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That's what the whole purpose

of the show is for Steph?

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Is that true?

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Steph Curtis-Raleigh: I'd say networking

is a very important part of the show, and

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congratulations to Miguel and his wife

on the impending birth of their child.

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I'm joining you from London.

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I've got a busy month.

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I am going to be managing the conference

at the UK Glamping Show and then

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hopping on a plane and coming over to

Denver for the Glamping Show Americas

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where alongside Sarah Riley, we are

co-directors of the the conference

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there and we've been very busily.

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I've been putting together the the

latest show issue of Glamping Business

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Americas as well in anticipation.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Excited to talk about the US Show.

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I do wanna touch on that.

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I think we should touch

on the UK show too.

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That's coming up briefly.

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I will actually be in Ireland during

the UK show, but I figured it would

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probably just much like you need

to leave for your, to make sure

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that your marriage stays intact.

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I probably should not ruin a vacation

with my girlfriend to go to a different

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island, to go to a Glamping Show and

try to do business in the middle of it.

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But I'll try to be there next year.

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I've always something on my list.

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We've been looking at that.

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We've been looking at a couple, I

was emailing Simon earlier, a couple

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the European UK shows to go and

exhibit another this year, next year.

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So we're excited to do that.

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Alright, let me do what we always

do at the beginning of the show.

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Let me toss it to our kind of recurring

guests as Scott, Phil, Eleonore.

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Oh, there's Rafael too.

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You snuck in Rafael's here.

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Rafael Correa: Hey buddy.

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Brian Searl: Did you wear a

suit, Rafael, for my show?

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Rafael Correa: Did I wear a suit?

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No, I wore a, my Crispus polo shirt.

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Brian Searl: I just, you'll go

see my comment on LinkedIn when

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you shared the other podcast.

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Rafael Correa: Yeah.

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Oh yeah.

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Brian Searl: Had the headshot with a suit.

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I'm like, Rafael doesn't

show it to my show in a suit.

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I don't understand why this happens.

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Rafael Correa: Those were glamor

shots I had done at JCPenney.

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Brian Searl: I like it.

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I my, my parents told me I was a baby

model in JCPenney's when I was a kid,

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that I still haven't found anything.

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And I think I was a chubby fat baby.

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I was like the, I don't know the exception

to the good looking children, but.

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Rafael Correa: JCPenney, Canada,

it's a different catalog.

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Brian Searl: It would've been

the United States, man, come on.

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I was born and raised in

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But yeah.

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So to our recurring guests

Rafael, Eleonore, Scott, Phil

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we have a crowded show, Simon.

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Is there anything that came across

you guys' desk that you think we

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should be talking about since last

time we were all together here?

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Rafael Correa: I can tell you that,

from my perspective and just happy to

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throw this out there and get comparing

results from everybody else, but we

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saw a really nice, late summer burst of

consumer demand across our portfolio.

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Curious if that was echoed in some

of the the RV sales from those folks

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and from the glamping side of the

world, if they have any other kind of

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perspective on that, Scott, always.

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But the which was nice to see.

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And so the fall is trending up as

well and looking forward we have

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a lot of properties that enjoy

strong falls from the leaf peeping

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season, Halloween festivities

and all that kind of good stuff.

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Excited to see a resurgence of consumer

demand in the outdoor hospitality

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space coming off of a relatively

soft spring and early summer.

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Brian Searl: Yeah, it is interesting,

like obviously our show is industry

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trends and insights, right?

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And we've been following throughout

this whole year how the kind of

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ebb and flow of the season is gone.

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It's gonna be up, it's gonna

be down, it's gonna be up, it's

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gonna be down, it's gonna be up.

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Maybe it's gonna be up,

maybe it's gonna stay up.

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Who knows?

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Different segments, different areas.

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And so we have a diverse range of people

on the show from the RV industry who's had

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its up and downs to everybody's headed.

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Its up and downs.

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So you've had your up and downs

to the glamping industry who maybe

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has just been up, I don't know.

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But we have maybe some early reports

that I've been getting from random

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people that maybe different styles of

glamping or taking off more than others.

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So what do we all think?

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Like how's the year been shaping up?

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Whitney?

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You can share data

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maybe that you have access to, whoever

wants to, does anyone wanna touch on it?

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From their perspective?

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Steph Curtis-Raleigh: I'll hop

in here with an international

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perspective, from the glamping side

of things, I think bookings have been,

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certainly slow in the UK this summer.

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Slower than usual has been more

difficult for our glamping operators.

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That's what we've been hearing.

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Whether this is just consumers,

they've already tried it.

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They've been a few years.

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And but there are certain glamping

operators who are bucking the trend in, in

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particular, those that have got something

a little bit more unique to offer.

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I suspect that this is a trend that

might also, if it's not already

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in the US it might be on its way.

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Brian Searl: I think we've

seen that a little bit.

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And I don't know, Scott, do

you have any data on this?

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Like the difference between the types

of, and I know there's many different

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types of glamping sites, but the

difference specifically that Steph

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is addressing between like the, I've

already tried it, and the looking

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for an experience is that, am I not

putting words in your mouth, Steph?

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Is that what you're.

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Steph Curtis-Raleigh: Yes, I think so.

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Yeah.

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Scott Bahr: The, that, that whole

idea is, seems to be waning a bit.

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People are establishing a preference now

and you're not seeing that as prevalent

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as it was, especially in a few years ago.

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Brian Searl: So how do we, like Steph,

you're obviously as the director of

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two glamping conferences, one coming

up in the UK here, which is September

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20th, 21st, something like that.

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Steph Curtis-Raleigh: That's yes.

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It's 18th to 20th.

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Yeah.

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Brian Searl: Okay.

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I knew it was sometime during my

vacation, so I was hedging my bet.

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Close to the end.

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But so you're leading

a conference in the UK.

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You're leading, you're co-directing

a conference in the United States.

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As you look at a show like the one, the

both of the ones that you're leading.

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There's certainly a lot of unique vendors.

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There's certainly not a unique

operators that have all kinds

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of different ideas about what

glamping should be or shouldn't be.

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What kind of accommodations, what

kind of experiences, what are you

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seeing from the type of people who are

exhibiting at these shows or attending

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these shows, or where you're looking

forward to welcoming this year that

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you think are gonna help continue to

drive this industry forward in a way

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that consumers want to repeatedly come

back to again and again versus getting

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perhaps tired with the same old stuff?

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Not that most people are

doing that, but some are.

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Steph Curtis-Raleigh: Yes I

think that I can make quite a

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distinction between the audiences.

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In general, the two markets

we celebrated the 10th year of

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the UK Glamping Show last year.

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So we're in our 11th year, I think we are

on our eighth in total America's show now.

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And I was part of the team that

first introduced that to the States.

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And I'd say that in America everything

is bigger and more ambitious.

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We saw that from the start.

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The UK glamping market is.

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Still quite a mom and pop

type business in general.

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So if you look at the number of units

on site the majority would be five

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and under, possibly three and under.

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So it's a lifestyle business.

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And as a result people, once they've set

up they may invest then in future years

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in a hot tub or something or other, but

there isn't a great scope for expansion.

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Whereas in the US we, from

the word go I think it's.

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It's partly space, it's partly mentality.

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It's it's the entrepreneurial

spirit people were talking about.

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People came in from the

entrepreneurs, they came in with

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brands, Under Canvas, AutoCamp,

people like that in the early days.

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And this mentality has continued.

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The, we wouldn't in the UK for

example, run content necessarily on

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raising investment in terms of streams

of funding and things like that.

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It just wouldn't be relevant to

the audience that we have there.

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We are more likely to look at maybe a

bit of bootstrapping or, how you would

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lease equipment or something like that.

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Certainly we wouldn't be looking

to tell people, you could set up

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multiple locations, this kind of thing.

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But in the US, the thirst was there

for this kind of information from

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the start, and we saw a lot more.

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People coming say from the finance

and the tech worlds into outdoor

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lodging and hospitality and bringing

their, their entrepreneurial spirit.

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And this year, I dunno whether you've

picked up on it, but we actually have

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a very unique a raffle for a 7 million

dollar property happening during, will be

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drawn during the show of the Yurtopian.

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And the Konradi's have actually,

they've been featured in Forbes.

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We've actually got the show and the,

and the raffle mentioned in, in Forbes

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magazine about could this be a new

way, for example, a new exit strategy.

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Brian Searl: Yeah.

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We had them on our show a few weeks ago.

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Yeah.

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Steph Curtis-Raleigh: Yes.

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So it's, that sort of illustrates how

different the two markets are in terms of

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lifestyle businesses and big businesses.

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Brian Searl: I think there's a

lot of, like Whitney, Scott, you

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guys are both involved in data and

helping some of these businesses

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as from a consulting standpoint.

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There's a lot of mom and pop

still glamping in the United

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States though, isn't there?

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Scott Bahr: Oh, absolutely, yep.

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Brian Searl: Whitney, do you have.

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Whitney Scott: Yeah.

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Scott Bahr: The vast majority, when

you kinda look at the distribution the

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vast majority are still the smaller,

individually owned or operations.

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And I, sorry, Whitney, I didn't mean to.

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Whitney Scott: Oh no, you're good.

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You're totally fine.

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Yeah that's exactly right.

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It's still tenant under

is still the majority.

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However, I would say that

the mentality even of those.

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Smaller mom and pop shops has much more

of that investor scaling mindset from

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the get-go to Steph's points is like,

people who come into this aren't just

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I'm just gonna have this kind of side

hustle generation and it's just gonna be

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something as an asset that I'm gonna keep.

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It's more, we have a much bigger mentality

about, America is a, is the marketplace.

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All we talk about is the marketplace

investment and like how to scale.

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And so that really comes out

in that entrepreneurial mindset

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set that Steph is working

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Scott Bahr: And we'll talk about that

a lot more in our panel in a few weeks.

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Brian Searl: Why you gotta be

all self-promotional, Scott?

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I know that you're not.

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Scott Bahr: That's how I role man.

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Brian Searl: Recognized as Whitney is,

and you need to get your name out there.

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But come on guy.

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Whitney Scott: I'm like,

I'm on Scott's panel.

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Scott Bahr: I'm doing the best I can.

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I wanna get some attendance at this thing.

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Steph, we.

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Steph Curtis-Raleigh: Yeah,

we're all on the panel actually.

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Whitney Scott: Yeah.

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We're actually all together.

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Scott Bahr: Crowd's

gonna be going crazier.

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Rafael Correa: It's gonna be

the panel before the panel.

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I, I'd offer too, in our portfolio, which

is primarily, larger scale RV resorts, but

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we almost always have glamping components

within those cottages park models,

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yurts, safari tents, the whole gamut.

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We have a little bit of

sprinkle of everything.

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But that portfolio, while RV was

soft for us, that portfolio was up

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almost uniformly across the board.

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Which was really exciting.

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I think that there's still post

COVID people that discovered, outdoor

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hospitality, camping, glamping.

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Now, there's, it gets more and

more competitive and the spectrum

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from large scale resorts like ours

all the way through mom and pop.

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There's a million choices, but

the good news is in that world, I

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think the distribution is actually

better than it is an RV still today.

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And so for those reasons that if you

have the right product and you have it

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marketed appropriately, you can get found.

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But it's it actually was a

completely opposite trend from

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what we saw on the RV side.

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As far as demand goes the park model

trend and cottage, anything that where

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I'm providing the bed was generally up.

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Brian Searl: You bring up a good

question about the product though.

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Do you feel as it continues to, not

saturate, maybe that's not the right

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word, but gain more exposure, more

consumers in the United States get a

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chance to go glamping for the first time.

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Do you think there's a point where it

will have to differentiate itself between

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just glamping like everybody else has

cabin rental, side by side, yurts side

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by side, yurts between RV sites at

campgrounds, Under Canvas experiences

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that bring people back multiple times

because they're completely different.

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Not better, but different.

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Do you think?

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Rafael Correa: Differentiation mean

you got the word right in there, right?

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It's all about differentiation.

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You gotta have something unique to

offer, otherwise people won't come back

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or they're gonna try something else.

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I think differentiation is key and

it's gonna be survival of the fittest

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just like it is in any marketplace.

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Brian Searl: So how do you look?

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Go ahead Scott.

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How do you point to that.

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Scott Bahr: That's somewhat contrary,

but it's still important by the way.

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And that is when we first did our

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was the top selling point, really.

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That's what people said.

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It's I wanna say in something

unique, something different.

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And it was, I don't know,

like 47% of everyone who like

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had an interest in glamping.

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It was because it was, they wanted

to stay in something unique.

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Now that shrunk, but it's still about 32%.

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So the uniqueness, that's a lot.

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That's a big chunk of the market.

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Brian Searl: Yeah.

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Scott Bahr: Still, it's still there.

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The uniqueness, I think

just because of exposure.

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Isn't driving it quite as much.

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A lot of people are going for the

uniqueness comes from I think the

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services and amenities and experience

that's involved too, but it's still,

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people are still looking for that.

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The the leisure traveler who wants

something a little bit different,

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a little bit different experience.

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It's still a very strong pull.

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Brian Searl: Can I ask you a hard

question, Rafael, for a second?

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Rafael Correa: I'm here for it.

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Brian Searl: Maybe it's not,

maybe it's not hard for you.

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But so as you look at a portfolio

like Blue Water, who has, mostly RV

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resorts, like you said, that have,

is it fair to say added glamping?

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Rafael Correa: We've always had a

component of glamping since day one.

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Brian Searl: Okay.

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Expanded.

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Rafael Correa: Yeah.

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We're perpetually expanding it.

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It's one of the major value

levers that we can pull from an

392

investment perspective, is to add

vacation rentals to our portfolio.

393

It always has been.

394

Brian Searl: What do you think the easiest

way, or maybe just some ideas you have

395

and are willing to share of ways that

campgrounds or RV parks who are trying

396

to integrate glamping can do so in a

way that differentiates their product?

397

Rafael Correa: I think there's

a lot of different ways.

398

I think differentiation happens in a

couple different ways, and the way we

399

look at it at Blue Water is one, am I

offering you access to a location that

400

you otherwise wouldn't have access to.

401

So location differentiation

is gonna be key.

402

The second one that we always look

at and try to separate ourselves from

403

the pack is the service offerings and

amenities on that particular property.

404

It's like you could go stay

I'll give you a perfect example.

405

In Luray, Virginia, we have a beautiful

RV park that is full and complete

406

with a water park, pickleball, courts.

407

We have a mountain bike, dirt track, we

have a remote control car or a track and

408

it sits right on the Shenandoah River and

you can tube 45 minutes down the river

409

all without ever leaving the property.

410

And then you have this, very

popular option that's out there.

411

This was getaway house.

412

Now it's Postcard Cabins.

413

They have two locations in that market.

414

And that particular, they have a

really unique consistent pod, set up.

415

But they're in the woods.

416

There's no pool, there's virtually

no amenities, there's virtually

417

no staff at those properties.

418

But, from what I understand, they do

very well as far as generating revenue.

419

And it's a completely different

experience than what I'm offering.

420

But they're, I think they're selling,

you escape, almost isolation, almost.

421

Especially if you live in a city

and people is you're inundated

422

with people all the time.

423

Maybe that's what you're looking for

is that escape because you come to

424

my property, you're in, dropped in

the middle of a giant RV community,

425

with all sorts of things going on.

426

And if that's what you're

we're offering, right?

427

Is this instant vacate.

428

Brian Searl: But you also have those

things you talked about, right?

429

Like the Shenandoah River access

430

Rafael Correa: Yes.

431

Brian Searl: And the amenities.

432

And so that's, I think where like

that very, is a clear way that I think

433

glamping can thrive on a Campground

when you're able to add all those

434

amenities and activities and things.

435

And I think the difference maker

with postcard, like you talk about is

436

this, the seclusion, the isolation.

437

Like I've got a couple places booked like

that in Ireland the next few weeks, right?

438

They're in the middle of nowhere that I

just, I wanna chill out and not be around

439

technology as much as I talk about AI.

440

But what about the majority of these

RV parks that are out there that don't

441

have the ability to add millions of

dollars versus of amenities who don't

442

already have them, who is there a viable

path forward for differentiation for

443

them to add glamping, do you think?

444

Rafael Correa: I think it then you

gotta really lean hard on experience.

445

And that's the part where,

that's where I think.

446

Places like Under Canvas' have excelled.

447

They give you an incredible experience

from or even, Whitney's Terramor that

448

she developed out there in, in Maine.

449

Like that, those properties had

just incredible beds, incredible

450

bathrooms, and, little teapots and

everything that you would need in

451

that room, those creature comforts.

452

So if you don't have the ability

to add amenities, you can

453

amenitize that unit heavily and

give a very luxurious experience.

454

And then you also have places like Under

Canvas, which is a very kind of high-touch

455

experience where it's a very kind of

guest forward as far as the manpower

456

that's on property is they're guest

facing and making sure that they're having

457

everything they need, that they're getting

connected with all the activities and

458

things that they want in that community.

459

'cause if they don't have the activities

there on the property, they're providing

460

that kind of concierge experience to

get you connected with the activities

461

that you're in that area for.

462

And I think those are the two ways

that if you can't sit there and add

463

a tremendous amount of amenities

or you're not on the river, right?

464

You make the unit super duper nice

and you make the ability to, for that

465

guest to connect with that area you

facilitate that and you connect the dots.

466

And I think that's the viable way without

just dropping tons of money at it.

467

Brian Searl: Yeah.

468

'cause it all blends together, right?

469

Phil and Eleonore, you guys are in

the RV industry, RVDA's got all,

470

dealers all over both countries, right?

471

Who are selling RVs, but they're

in, in, sometimes in some places in

472

many RV parks, they're in the middle

of these glamping units or in a

473

different section of the property.

474

But the people who are glamping are being

exposed to the RVing lifestyle through

475

either people they meet on the Campground

or the experience of just walking by

476

and wondering what's inside them and

what happened if I, what happens if I

477

buy one in the future or whatever else.

478

So this is all a circle where that like

some people will go, always go glamping

479

and we'll always, will never go RVing.

480

Some people will go RVing

and never go glamping.

481

But there's a lot of

crossover there, I think.

482

Right?

483

Phil Ingrassia: Yeah, absolutely.

484

And our research, and

Scott has done some of it.

485

Shows that, our most recent Go

RVing research shows that about

486

11% of people who intend to buy an

RV have rented something that was

487

outdoor related before, whether it

was a glamping site or rented an RV.

488

And RVs are part of the glamping.

489

They're not the entire thing

obviously, but they're part

490

of the glamping experience.

491

You mentioned Auto Camp.

492

And their growth and certainly

their partnership with Hilton Hotels

493

shows you that there is a lot of

outside interest in that space.

494

And RVs can and should and

need to be a part of it.

495

Because people wanna do different things.

496

They wanna stay in an airstream or a

park model or they want to do a different

497

type of a adventure the next time around.

498

So I think, rising tide of

outdoor recreation interest

499

is gonna lift all our boats.

500

Whitney Scott: Yeah, I would just add

to that is like, when you look at the

501

end consumer from a accommodation,

perspec, outdoor accommodation

502

perspective, their top three wants

to, say Airstreams are number three.

503

RVs play a really big part in

the outdoor accommodation world

504

from a glamping perspective.

505

You've got Airstream, you've got

converted RVs, and then to Phil's

506

point, you also have park models,

which helps our, in the industry of

507

glamping and outdoor accommodations

really grow because it helps from,

508

zoning requirements is like without park

models, many of us wouldn't be able to

509

develop because it's just a requirement.

510

And what the RV industry does

for and with the glamping

511

community is really important.

512

Plus, to Phil's point, that

consumer is not siloed.

513

We, just because we're a

glamper one day doesn't mean

514

we can be an RVer the next day.

515

It's really how we explore the outdoors.

516

So I might take my camper 150 miles,

but I might fly across the world and go

517

glamping, and yet I'm the same person.

518

And so we have to be able to see that

consumer in their complexity to really

519

understand, what that the market truly is.

520

Brian Searl: Steph, what do

you think about this from

521

the glamping side of things?

522

Steph Curtis-Raleigh: Yeah,

it's very interesting.

523

Obviously the UK we don't have the

RV side of things as such, but we do

524

have the traditional caravan park,

which is also embraced glamping.

525

I think that it depends on where

you are in your life as well.

526

What kind of glamping,

holiday you want to have.

527

My son is 17, nearly 18, 10 years

ago I'd have been straight over to,

528

to have the waterpark, all of those

activities because that, was what

529

we were looking for in holidays.

530

Now, perhaps I'm more inclined to pick

something a little bit more luxurious, a

531

little bit more private, a little quieter.

532

So I think that what I'm seeing is

that the growth on the luxury end of

533

the market that is is just steady.

534

And it's it's, Whitney joined me

at our Eco Resort Network event in

535

Greece where we had international

representatives showing the kind

536

of tented luxury, architecturally

designed type of lodges which are

537

very much run along a hotel model.

538

So they've got spas, they've got

restaurants, they've got, full service.

539

So that end of the market I'm seeing

is growing fast and it's big business.

540

And then on the other end of the

market, you've got the sort of hands-off

541

operators who are looking at using

AI and connectivity to actually run

542

their glamping site remotely and not

even be on site with, smart locks

543

and apps and that sort of thing.

544

So it's really, there is

something for everyone.

545

But I'd say where I am seeing really

strong growth is in the sort of very

546

beautifully designed, rather high

cost per night end of the market.

547

Rafael Correa: It's actually where

most of the growth, if you look at the

548

CoStar reports for the hotel industry

as well luxury is what's seeing growth

549

where everything has been flat to down.

550

Brian Searl: I did see that.

551

Was that somebody sent me

that report the other day.

552

Was that you Scott?

553

No, somebody I shared it with

you in the channel, didn't I?

554

Where the economic hotel nights were down.

555

Scott Bahr: Yes.

556

Yep.

557

Brian Searl: Yeah.

558

Yeah, that was interesting to me.

559

But I think the RV market's a little

bit different as you were saying, Scott.

560

What are we, Miguel, what

are you seeing in Mexico?

561

Miguel Huerta: I, this year has been

very difficult for the Mexican market.

562

I think that pretty much the whole country

is seeing a decrease by the magnitude

563

of 20% on the demand for hotel rooms.

564

Although for glamping that

decrease has only been 4%.

565

So I think that the glamping industry is

quite resilient, but we're also seeing

566

institutional players such as Accor and

some local Mexican tourism conglomerates

567

interested on joining the industry.

568

Now through this, that most of

the operators are mom and pop

569

type of managers or owners.

570

But what I'm, lately, I've

been having lots of discussions

571

around commercialization.

572

At the end operations, I know

that it's time consuming.

573

Nobody wants to do that.

574

This is the less sexy part of things.

575

But I always tell people when they tell

me how do I improve my sales is go back

576

to the five P's of marketing and truth to

be told right now, the place, the location

577

is the most is the most important factor.

578

Because at the end, as

Scott was saying sure.

579

You may have allocation that it's

isolated, but people, they really want

580

to have some sort of added experiences

as Rafael also mentioned that and I'm

581

seeing that a lot of institutional

players in Mexico, they have failed big

582

time because they think that these are

hotels that people will come to them, and

583

at the end what they miss is that where

they, what, where people are staying.

584

It's afterthought, like the star is the

great the Grand Canyon or the Firefly

585

Center in Mexico, something like that.

586

So the place is important.

587

The other one critical

to me is the product.

588

And what I'm telling, especially newcomers

to, to the industry is even though that

589

it's easy to bring into import tents

from Asia or places like that, now

590

with the tariffs, it's getting harder.

591

But that makes you also to take

into consideration the location

592

where you are opening your site.

593

So a hut can be a glamping site.

594

A cave like for example in

Turkey can be a glamping site.

595

And I think that we have, the industry

have lost ourselves a little bit with the

596

product because we think about like this

canvas tents or those type of things.

597

And that may not be the case that will

work in any location, but product is

598

critical because at the end that's

how you're gonna either compliment

599

or fight back the stationarity that

the place or the location will have.

600

So you have two P's out of five,

then you also have a promotion.

601

And what I'm seeing a lot of shortcomings

is people that they say, okay my, my

602

son or my niece they have social media.

603

I'm gonna give them a credit

card, and they're gonna run

604

ads to bring in customers.

605

And sadly, that's not the case actually.

606

I'm seeing a paid social media,

less profitable than a Google

607

keyword ads or even like TikTok

videos, which is quite interesting.

608

And finally we have the price, which sadly

I foresee since I'm seeing places like

609

the UK Spain, Mexico that even places like

New York are suffering because a lot of

610

Canadians are not crossing the border.

611

These less experienced operators, they

will fight through pricing, which, that

612

will bring the whole industry down.

613

If we don't have a, if we don't get

together and start thinking as a group.

614

That's the easy way out, sure.

615

You, you will be fighting

for market share.

616

But at the end you have the other four

P's and the last P is people, which even

617

though that might be interesting and

appealing, you won't get to experience

618

that till you check into the property.

619

So again, we don't have

to reinvent the wheel.

620

The five P's, I think

that they work wonderful.

621

We can frame it like that, and I will

invite people to, to think about their

622

location based on that framework.

623

Rafael Correa: That's great insight.

624

Miguel.

625

Thank you.

626

Brian Searl: I want to get your thoughts,

Simon, on, you're up too, but I want to

627

go back to Steph real quick 'cause I know

she has to leave us in a few minutes.

628

And we've got just a lot of

people on the show, we're trying

629

to get everybody's opinions on.

630

I'm not used to having this many people.

631

It's good though 'cause

I'm not talking as much.

632

So Steph, tell us briefly, like

what's what can we expect coming

633

up here at at the Glamping Show in

both the UK and the United States?

634

Steph Curtis-Raleigh: I think you

can expect some really fascinating

635

stories and some new faces as well.

636

When we were looking at some of the

new voices in the glamping market.

637

We saw quite a lot of people who'd come

across from perhaps the short-term rental

638

side of the business into the outdoor

hospitality sector, and who had garnered

639

huge followings online in the process.

640

Some of these people are now diversifying,

trying to share their knowledge, create

641

new income streams in interesting ways.

642

So we've got the Linton's, Brian and

Joanna Linton coming from Camp Ferncrest,

643

who obviously they've got an interesting

model whereby, it's a sort of franchise

644

model that they're growing very fast.

645

They're how to type videos

that they've they've had on

646

Instagram, massive followings.

647

We've got the Bolts from the Bolt

Treehouse Farm, or I've got probably

648

got that the wrong way around.

649

But anyway, they again, very, known online

people who are following glamping and

650

looking at other people who've done that

have gone through that journey already.

651

We are looking, we've mentioned our panel

session with Scott and Whitney and Todd

652

Wynne-Parry is going to be on that as

well, whereby we're not just looking at

653

the data, we're trying to digest it a

little bit and say, what is this going

654

to mean for you, for your business?

655

How can you take this data that

Scott's put together so carefully

656

and make a business decision from it

without, obviously, we can offer no

657

guarantees, what is it telling us?

658

So it's stories, it's real life but

also we are looking, and this is

659

a very important point and Sarah

would kill me if I didn't mention

660

it at the changing landscape.

661

And I know everybody talks about

AI all the time, but it is making

662

things completely different in the

way that people are searching for,

663

for a glamping stay, for example.

664

So what does that mean and

how will it impact us all?

665

And as a, what are the opportunities

that AI are going, is going to

666

give us because apart from anything

else, it will make life easier.

667

It will automate some tasks that

small operators find time-consuming.

668

So we've really thought, we took

all the data from last year's show.

669

Sarah and I, we went through it.

670

We saw what people reported were the

areas of most interest to them, and then

671

we looked for people who were actually

doing these things and amenities.

672

Now that is another area that there's

another panel that Whitney is moderating,

673

in fact, but a massive area because if

you've got a limited amount of budget,

674

where are you going to put that budget?

675

How will you at, how much ROI

are you going to get back on on

676

say a hot tub or any other type

of amenity that you invest in.

677

I've tried to give you a whistle-stop tour

of some of the things in the conference.

678

Obviously we've got the

massive expo as well.

679

Brian Searl: 120 something

exhibitors, right?

680

Steph Curtis-Raleigh: And that is,

that's right over 120 exhibitors.

681

And it's it, the variety of product and

cost level for people, whether they're

682

small operators or whether they're looking

for some sort of standout, flagship

683

piece of accommodation, for example.

684

It's, you're not going to find

that variety anywhere else in

685

the world, I think, in one place.

686

And so it's it's a very exciting time for

the show and I think that Emerald, the

687

team at Emerald have done a great job.

688

This past year in getting a hold of this

quite disparate industry, it's quite

689

difficult to understand if from the

outside it's a steep learning curve.

690

And they've really they've invested

wisely in in, in, in getting additional

691

data from Walden, for example, to

better understand and better serve.

692

I'm very excited to see everybody

at the show and to hear the

693

feedback and I hope it will be, I'm

sure it'll be very positive for.

694

Brian Searl: Yeah, that's one of the

things that's always stuck out to me about

695

the Glamping Show is just the diversity

of all the people from all over the

696

world who come and centrally located in

one place for a couple days every year.

697

But you, to your point, the, all the

exhibitors that come from different

698

countries that have different

styles of what glamping means to

699

them, what the accommodation is.

700

Is it a cabin, is it a yurt, is it a dome?

701

Is it, I don't know, like

an igloo-type structure.

702

I saw there one time or like

a 3D printed rock thing, like

703

all kinds of stuff, right?

704

There was a Chinese company that had.

705

Steph Curtis-Raleigh: It's like something

outta the Flintstones, isn't it?

706

Brian Searl: Like thing and just, yeah.

707

I think the ability for you to see all

that stuff and if you can go to that

708

conference and you come away with I

don't have an idea for what I wanna do,

709

you probably are in the wrong business,

I think because there's just so many

710

things to see and learn there, right?

711

Steph Curtis-Raleigh: That's true.

712

Miguel made a good point though.

713

I think that glamping is almost

a mentality rather than a piece

714

of accommodation though, as well.

715

To say that it can be a

cave in Turkey, for example.

716

Absolutely.

717

And I think authenticity as far as you

can make, create the authenticity to

718

your area, that's a massive part of it.

719

If you can weave that in and you can

give a nod to the culture of the location

720

of where you are sighted, then you know

that the guests love that and it gives

721

you something then to base your story

about who you are and what you're about.

722

And that helps guests understand

what they're going to expect.

723

Brian Searl: All right.

724

I wanna let you go, Steph, but before

you go, where can they learn more about

725

the Gaming Show USA and the UK one?

726

Where can they buy tickets?

727

Come?

728

Steph Curtis-Raleigh: Certainly you've

got to visit the the Glamping Show

729

US website, which let me just make

sure I get the is, glampingshow.us.

730

And so if you visit there, you

can buy your tickets and I believe

731

there are offers still on go

quickly because they will disappear

732

as we get closer to the show.

733

And yes, just again

look at glampingshow.com

734

for the UK that is free entry

and a free seminar stream.

735

So just turn up.

736

But don't turn up if you're on

holiday in Ireland Brian, that might.

737

Brian Searl: You could have, you

could've just stuck to my side, Steph.

738

I could have taken it to my girlfriend

and listen, Steph said I had to go.

739

She said she was on the show.

740

Rafael Correa: Hey, Brian.

741

Brian Searl: Yeah?

742

Rafael Correa: I was curious

if we could I'm, I have a big

743

question in my head for Whitney.

744

I know that conservation, really working

on that side of your world everybody

745

had that on their radar this year

when the government and the current

746

administration was trying to, or

considering selling a lot of public lands.

747

Fortunately that didn't come to fruition.

748

But I'm curious what other hot buttons

there are in the conservation world today

749

that we should be paying attention to.

750

Brian Searl: And please introduce Walden

for us before you answer that question.

751

Whitney Scott: Walden is a

market intelligence company.

752

So we're watching all of the business

information around the outdoor

753

world, including conservation to

Raf's point, outdoor retail, outdoor

754

recreation, outdoor hospitality, because

technically we all feed into the.

755

The same thing, which is the outdoors.

756

And we all need the outdoors to survive.

757

And to Raf's point, we did this big

work around like how policy changes

758

were affecting, not like outdoor

recreation, public lands, like access.

759

And there was a a potential change

that luckily was shot down to

760

sell off a lot of public lands.

761

I think right now the one we're

watching is so there's a policy in

762

place about public response on things

and being able to stop development.

763

And so it, what used to be, I think,

and then I'm gonna think, I think

764

it's a 75 day response on developments

from a federal land perspective.

765

But it's like being shortened to 14 days,

which is almost impossible for people

766

to understand what the impact of things

and be able to respond in a, in any

767

positive or negative fashion thoughtfully

and intentful and with intention.

768

I applaud the American, the

Great American Outdoors Act.

769

It's in that gray area of things

where, how that money is coming

770

into public, public lands and

conservation is really great.

771

It's actually comes from oil money.

772

We don't often understand that is how

that money is coming, but it's like

773

a portion of these kind of extractive

industries goes into conservation and I

774

think that's really important for us to

know is the, one we're feeding a cycle,

775

but it's that Jane Goodall model of at

least we're coming together and say,

776

okay, if we're gonna do this, let's also

make a counterbalance and have access

777

to, to land some of the administrative

budget changes for next year.

778

I think seeing if all of those are

implemented, it's really what's gonna

779

happen in 2026 with cut, major cuts in

departments where we don't even know.

780

Really how that impact is going to be felt

from a National Park Service perspective,

781

a National Forest Service perspective,

or a US Forest for service perspective.

782

So it, we're seeing a

lot of those changes.

783

How it will affect recreation is

probably a little bit more down the line.

784

I do think that there's some

really positives from a business

785

perspective is that there's a lot more

willingness to look at commissionaires

786

and public private partnerships.

787

I think what Amazon did in Oregon.

788

Literally giving a municipality

millions of dollars to build

789

an RV park was amazing.

790

They needed, they needed RV

space, they wanted to grow this.

791

And now the municipality has a

cash flowing asset that they didn't

792

have to pay for as long as they

give a certain portion of sites

793

to Amazon for for their workforce.

794

So I think that, there's some positives,

even some of the lessening of regulations

795

and, like conservation is important.

796

We need the outdoors for our business.

797

We need the outdoors to survive.

798

But I think there's also some good

lessening of things that might let us

799

explore expansion or, building more

outdoor recreation space, campgrounds and

800

things that might help the industry grow.

801

I don't wanna sound like a middle,

there's good and bad but there is.

802

Brian Searl: Choose a side, Whitney.

803

Whitney Scott: Good things

and bad things happening.

804

Rafael Correa: I didn't know

about the the oil money.

805

I didn't, that didn't come up in

my watching of Landman recently.

806

So that was.

807

As I was becoming educated of

the oil industry through Landman.

808

Brian Searl: It is, I don't want to,

I definitely don't wanna change the

809

topics of this, but it is indu, it

is interesting to me 'cause I live in

810

Calgary where a bunch of the big oil

companies are headquartered up here

811

and like the perception you get coming

in of the oil industry is that well in

812

some cases from an outsider looking in

right, if you care about air quality as

813

the oil industry maybe doesn't care so

much about air quality, but they keep

814

Calgary like the cleanest, most well kept

city in 'cause that's where they live.

815

So it's just really interesting

where some of those dollars go to,

816

not that the oil industry should

be vilified like that at all.

817

Just saying that's the perception

of some people as everybody

818

has different opinions.

819

Or be both sides just like Whitney is.

820

So.

821

Whitney Scott: It, I think if we sometimes

let down the hate and look at where

822

we're all looking to build and things

like that and what we can do together.

823

These are good things that are

happening within our government ish.

824

Right now.

825

Rafael Correa: And the, so the

sword cuts both ways, right?

826

Always.

827

And then, in our world we are all

tied to this outdoor hospitality

828

world one way or another.

829

And I think in our world, even more

so than the traditional hospitality

830

world, we are, our success is linked

to striking this balance between

831

development and respecting nature and

embracing kind of the reason people

832

wanna come see us to start with.

833

It's a it's a it's not an easy

thing and it's not a straight answer

834

everywhere you go, but it's great to

see these things coming to the surface,

835

being addressed and, ultimately,

hopefully finding the right balance.

836

Whitney Scott: Couldn't agree more.

837

Brian Searl: Absolutely.

838

Simon, I promise I'd get to you.

839

And now it's 52 minutes in.

840

And I'm getting to you finally.

841

Just to circle back to our 'cause

industry trends and insights, right?

842

We were all talking about

Camping and glamping and some

843

of the trends we've seen.

844

So you're in Europe there, Croatia.

845

You go to a lot of the shows over there.

846

And I know you also cross over with

the states, but specific to Europe,

847

are you seeing some of the same things

we're seeing in Mexico with Miguel

848

that he cited in the United States

and Canada with the RV industry too?

849

Simon Neal: I can share a bit about what

our customers are doing with glamping.

850

So we, our customers are definitely

more, the larger RV parks, campgrounds,

851

holiday parks 100 plus sites.

852

And they're definitely all investing a

bit like Rafael's model that they have

853

some glamping, they have some mobile

homes in there for the diversification.

854

So we've seen a lot of investment

in that over the last few years.

855

Changes coming off season, building

new things, glamping tents.

856

But I've got a really interesting

story that's actually comes from a

857

campsite I used to go to every year

for my holidays with wife and kids.

858

They're not our customer, but they

actually leased out two portions

859

of the Campground, pretty big

areas to a third party agency.

860

And they were both glamping operators, but

they both did a completely different way.

861

So one of them was the mass

produced, this is a glamping tent.

862

It looks like a glamping tent,

but the materials rubbish.

863

They're all stack next

to each other in rows.

864

You're looking straight in your neighbor's

tent, three, four meters away versus

865

the second operator that picked a spot,

right at the edge of the Campground.

866

In forest, they cleared a small area.

867

They had seven or eight units only.

868

Great materials, a bit more space.

869

You weren't looking at each other.

870

And they were both sold as the same

thing and basically marketed the same

871

way, a completely different product.

872

And at the time we had, two very

young kids, two, three years old.

873

So we stayed for two years in this

glamping, and they were just fantastic.

874

The experience was amazing, but we'd

walk every day to the water park,

875

passed, all these other guys stuck

like tuna in these glamping tents.

876

And it was just horrendous.

877

So I think, like you said, it's all

about, it's the same space, it's

878

the same Campground, but two totally

different approaches, two totally

879

different products, all labeled glamping.

880

So it's a small touches.

881

It's making the special experience,

the special feel, I think is really

882

important to make that successful.

883

Brian Searl: Where do you think

the future of the glamping

884

market goes in Europe then?

885

Does it continue to evolve?

886

Does it continue to go towards

like the UK's doing more different

887

differentiation or stay mom and pop or,

888

Simon Neal: yeah, I think, like Steph

was saying there's a big trend in the

889

mom and pop because you have people who

have a big bit of land next to their

890

house, or particularly farmers looking

for some extra income, have a spare

891

field and they're just chucking, these

four or five lamping pods out there,

892

they're sticking out in a marketplace and

getting some extra money in the pocket.

893

That's pretty big 'cause it's easy to

do, but there's also now a bit more

894

of a trend of the more sophisticated,

more organized groups coming in.

895

I think taking that American mentality

back to the UK and I've seen a couple of

896

those starting to pop up a bit more now.

897

There's one called Secret Garden

Glamping, which is really big in

898

the UK, it's growing extremely fast.

899

That's taken that approach.

900

So you have that.

901

Brian Searl: Derry's been

on our show before he.

902

Simon Neal: Yeah, actually.

903

Brian Searl: He was gonna unveil

a new location in Ireland that I

904

could go to and then he just invite

unveil a new one in the UK instead.

905

Simon Neal: Yeah.

906

Yeah.

907

Yeah, so that's an example of

this entrepreneur approach where

908

they're growing bigger and it's very

sophisticated, high quality, but

909

essentially the same product and

just packaged in a different way.

910

But definitely in our customers,

the big campgrounds there,

911

they're investing heavily.

912

They're going for the experience,

they're going for the quality.

913

And that's the biggest

growth, I would say.

914

Brian Searl: But ultimately, that's

what differentiates us, right?

915

Is the packaging, whether we're in the RV

industry or we're in Camping, or we're in

916

glamping, or we're at RV resorts with blue

water or blue water hotels too, right?

917

Like it's all packaging.

918

It's how you package that experience.

919

And then, are you just putting together

a package that's marketing, or are you

920

putting together a package with substance?

921

And then that's gonna end up determining

what the consumer both wants now is happy

922

with now, but also wants in the future,

and is willing to try in the future,

923

glamping to RVing, RVing to glamping.

924

It's a whole big circle with

the outdoor industry as a whole.

925

Rafael Correa: Absolutely.

926

Brian Searl: A couple final questions.

927

I have, Whitney, I'm sorry we didn't have

more time to get to you for the Walden,

928

but what do people come to Walden for?

929

What.

930

Whitney Scott: We have a

couple of data products.

931

We have something called the Lot, which is

like a it's for, as you come into outdoor

932

accommodations, if you're evaluating

parcels of land for what you should build.

933

So a lot of people, they have things like

feasibility studies, which are done like

934

after you pick, purchase the land, after

you've, after you picked accommodations.

935

And this is before you get to that.

936

Before you, you could, best

case scenario, you do it before

937

you purchase a piece of land.

938

And so it looks at 120

different data sets.

939

Across things like the site itself,

the market itself competition,

940

and then gives you a score.

941

50 and above means, this is a good outdoor

hospitality site and 50 and below is

942

you probably should stay away from it.

943

But it's really hard to get, a

good analysis of whether or not the

944

markets, the market fits it, the

site fits it and the actual, like

945

from a competitive landscape fits it.

946

So we have a product like

that in outdoor hospitality.

947

On Monday, we actually launch

a product that's a buying guide

948

for outdoor accommodations.

949

So we're going to the Glamping Show, we've

spent a year putting this guide together.

950

It's like a consumer report

for outdoor accommodations.

951

The first one to launch is the

unique accommodations, and then we

952

have tents, and then we have cabins.

953

And we had to break it up into three

just for North America because there's

954

over 750 manufacturers in the United

955

And so the guide was getting

so big that we could.

956

Brian Searl: I never would've guessed

that, like I knew there was a lot of

957

manufacturers in the US, but 750 is.

958

Whitney Scott: Yeah.

959

We thought.

960

Rafael Correa: That sounds

more like an almanac than a.

961

Whitney Scott: Yeah.

962

We thought we could like, quickly do this

in a couple of months, and then we just

963

got in these rabbit holes and realized

how completely disparate our market is.

964

Like how people sell, how people talk is

so different that buyers can't find them.

965

And then the product, how people measure

them, how people communicate warranties.

966

Does it have electrical, does it not?

967

Is it Canvas, is it not?

968

It is, it took us over a year to

aggregate all the information and then

969

start making decisions on how do you

categorize and produce this type of guide.

970

So that is it.

971

Brian Searl: Alphabetical?

972

Whitney Scott: It actually.

973

Brian Searl: I wanna start

a ABC glamping company.

974

Whitney Scott: It's not alphabetical.

975

In each category.

976

Rafael Correa: It'll be

after aaa Camping by Raf's.

977

Brian Searl: Damn it.

978

I shoulda have thought of that.

979

Whitney Scott: We do it by pice.

980

Brian Searl: Such a good name.

981

Yeah.

982

Whitney Scott: You can find 'em by price.

983

And then from there the alphabetical

and manufacturers, so you can find them

984

alphabetically, but it is, it's a beast.

985

And it, it launches actually

on the eighth, on Monday.

986

And you can peruse it.

987

It will take a while.

988

'cause there are so many.

989

Rafael Correa: Wow.

990

That's exciting.

991

Whitney Scott: Yeah.

992

Rafael Correa: I'm look

forward to seeing that.

993

Brian Searl: How many deals, how

many manufacturers there are?

994

Eleonore, do you know of RVs?

995

Eleonore Hamm: It's a bit different

because you've got the big three.

996

Brian Searl: Yeah.

997

Do you have an idea of the

smaller ones too, or no?

998

Eleonore Hamm: I wouldn't have

a number off the top of my head.

999

Brian Searl: Okay.

00:53:26,826 --> 00:53:27,096

You don't wanna.

00:53:27,096 --> 00:53:27,771

Eleonore Hamm: It's not that many.

00:53:28,651 --> 00:53:30,636

It's definitely not as many

as what Whitney just said.

00:53:30,736 --> 00:53:34,356

Brian Searl: 750, yeah, but I think that's

because there's consolidation, right?

00:53:34,356 --> 00:53:36,756

I think when it get, yeah, when

it was probably at its infancy

00:53:36,756 --> 00:53:38,106

getting started and scaling up.

00:53:38,106 --> 00:53:41,766

There probably were hundreds and hundreds

that consolidated over time, and I think

00:53:41,766 --> 00:53:43,176

that's probably what's gonna happen too.

00:53:43,666 --> 00:53:47,646

Whitney Scott: And it's just

this niche, because this outdoor

00:53:47,646 --> 00:53:53,166

accommodation is built on innovation

and creativity, everyone just built the

00:53:53,166 --> 00:53:55,866

next thing and everything's that way.

00:53:56,046 --> 00:54:00,486

Categorization was the hardest thing, is

we had to build this new taxonomy because.

00:54:01,386 --> 00:54:04,836

Everything, you have panorama tents,

you have spike tents, you have wall

00:54:04,836 --> 00:54:10,056

tents, you have safari tents, you

have, it's crazy how creative people

00:54:10,056 --> 00:54:14,256

get and it's just like everyone did

something a little bit different.

00:54:14,256 --> 00:54:18,636

And as a new manufacturer

where RVs, because of DOT,

00:54:18,996 --> 00:54:21,896

you had to stay in a box, so.

00:54:21,956 --> 00:54:23,876

You don't have to stay in the box.

00:54:23,876 --> 00:54:28,406

We get to go in the cave and the dome

and the pod and the tree and the, So.

00:54:28,406 --> 00:54:28,946

Rafael Correa: Container.

00:54:29,246 --> 00:54:29,426

Whitney Scott: Yeah.

00:54:29,936 --> 00:54:32,696

Brian Searl: I want to date, I wanna

date myself here and maybe not date

00:54:32,696 --> 00:54:36,656

myself, but put myself to account

on the show and we'll see how well

00:54:36,656 --> 00:54:38,096

this dates is what I meant to say.

00:54:38,646 --> 00:54:42,786

I think whoever can start a glamping

company that's designing thousands of

00:54:42,786 --> 00:54:46,566

different glamping accommodations with

3D CAD that can be downloaded into

00:54:46,566 --> 00:54:49,746

robots heads and they can build them on

site is gonna be the winner of it all.

00:54:50,046 --> 00:54:50,766

Whitney Scott: Oh, he already exists.

00:54:51,396 --> 00:54:52,686

He's out of California.

00:54:52,876 --> 00:54:55,276

He has a 3D outdoor

accommodation print shop.

00:54:55,546 --> 00:54:57,226

Brian Searl: But he can't

download it into robot's heads

00:54:57,226 --> 00:54:58,246

so they can build it on site yet.

00:54:58,246 --> 00:54:59,596

That's not quite possible.

00:54:59,686 --> 00:54:59,926

But now.

00:55:00,316 --> 00:55:01,816

Whitney Scott: It comes

out in a 3D printer.

00:55:01,816 --> 00:55:03,526

That's like a crane that does this.

00:55:03,676 --> 00:55:03,961

Brian Searl: Oh, Yeah.

00:55:04,546 --> 00:55:04,756

Okay.

00:55:04,756 --> 00:55:04,846

Yep.

00:55:04,846 --> 00:55:04,856

Yep.

00:55:04,946 --> 00:55:06,746

I think those are interesting

companies in the future.

00:55:06,746 --> 00:55:07,326

Rafael Correa: Pretty close, Brian.

00:55:07,856 --> 00:55:08,546

Whitney Scott: Pretty close.

00:55:08,546 --> 00:55:10,346

It's not a head, it's a crane, but.

00:55:10,866 --> 00:55:11,556

Brian Searl: The same thing, right?

00:55:11,556 --> 00:55:12,786

The cost is what I mean.

00:55:12,946 --> 00:55:15,876

The getting the cost down and

having the owners be able to do

00:55:16,356 --> 00:55:21,316

whatever they can imagine is really

interesting to me without shipping

00:55:21,336 --> 00:55:22,656

it everywhere else, but, okay.

00:55:22,906 --> 00:55:24,856

I know we're a couple minutes

early, so final thoughts.

00:55:24,856 --> 00:55:27,286

Simon, final thoughts and then where

can they find out more about CampMap?

00:55:28,516 --> 00:55:29,646

Simon Neal: Yeah, I don't

have many thoughts to say.

00:55:29,646 --> 00:55:30,336

I'm too tired.

00:55:30,336 --> 00:55:31,716

But campmap.com

00:55:31,906 --> 00:55:33,526

you can find us there all information.

00:55:34,336 --> 00:55:34,876

Brian Searl: Thank you, Simon.

00:55:34,876 --> 00:55:35,616

Appreciate it, Eleonore.

00:55:36,446 --> 00:55:37,586

Eleonore Hamm: Yeah I learned a lot today.

00:55:37,586 --> 00:55:40,826

I don't know that much about the glamping

side, so it's really very interesting.

00:55:40,826 --> 00:55:41,936

So thanks for having me.

00:55:41,936 --> 00:55:47,036

And any questions on the Canadian RVs

dealer side our website's rvda.ca.

00:55:47,471 --> 00:55:49,011

Brian Searl: We'll get you more

involved next time, Eleonore.

00:55:49,031 --> 00:55:51,161

Sorry, I wasn't expecting

to have a full house today.

00:55:51,161 --> 00:55:51,701

It was crazy.

00:55:51,701 --> 00:55:54,101

I guess I should look at my guest

list before I show up unprepared.

00:55:54,791 --> 00:55:56,291

Scott from Cairn Consulting.

00:55:56,981 --> 00:55:59,291

Scott Bahr: Yeah, it'll be interesting

to look at the fall numbers to

00:55:59,291 --> 00:56:00,821

see how this comes into place.

00:56:01,161 --> 00:56:04,641

Just looking at the summer so far, I know

Phil mentioned it a little bit earlier,

00:56:04,641 --> 00:56:10,131

but the numbers here in Maine for Canadian

visitation were pretty bleak down 28%.

00:56:10,651 --> 00:56:13,256

Brian Searl: Is that border crossings

or at Camping, at campgrounds?

00:56:13,316 --> 00:56:14,956

Scott Bahr: That, that's border crossings.

00:56:15,236 --> 00:56:18,736

Or no, that's at, that's, I'm sorry,

that's short term rentals on site.

00:56:19,051 --> 00:56:19,931

All sort term rentals.

00:56:20,391 --> 00:56:24,591

So it's got a 28% Maine's estimated

to lose by the quarter of a million

00:56:24,591 --> 00:56:26,091

Canadian visitors this year.

00:56:26,511 --> 00:56:27,441

That's the latest figure.

00:56:27,441 --> 00:56:31,101

So I know that's a little bleak to end

on, but I'm hoping you know that we can

00:56:31,101 --> 00:56:35,731

get some good close to home travel from

our residents here in the fall and keep.

00:56:35,731 --> 00:56:39,151

Brian Searl: We had Csizmadia on

the show last week from the Canadian

00:56:39,151 --> 00:56:42,721

Campaign RV Association, and she said

everything in Canada is wonderful.

00:56:42,721 --> 00:56:46,861

So just to end on a positive note,

Scott, for all of us up here.

00:56:47,581 --> 00:56:50,161

Whitney from Walden, final

thoughts and then where can

00:56:50,161 --> 00:56:50,911

they learn more about Walden?

00:56:52,361 --> 00:56:53,831

Whitney Scott: I'm really

excited for the fall.

00:56:53,861 --> 00:56:57,311

It's, the business season for

Camping and outdoor hospitality.

00:56:57,311 --> 00:57:00,761

So I'm, gearing up for that

and for the Glamping Show like

00:57:00,761 --> 00:57:02,201

Steph said, there's, it's.

00:57:02,756 --> 00:57:05,456

They've done a really great job

putting together panels, Scott's

00:57:05,456 --> 00:57:08,446

research so very excited there.

00:57:08,446 --> 00:57:11,646

You can learn more about Walden

and get our accommodation

00:57:11,646 --> 00:57:13,276

guide at waldeninsight.com,

00:57:15,096 --> 00:57:18,066

and I hope to see you

guys all at the show.

00:57:18,906 --> 00:57:19,476

Brian Searl: Thank you, Whitney.

00:57:19,476 --> 00:57:19,896

Appreciate it.

00:57:19,896 --> 00:57:21,806

Miguel, where can they learn

more about what you're doing?

00:57:21,806 --> 00:57:24,056

I know you have your businesses and

the Mexican Glamping Association.

00:57:24,966 --> 00:57:25,266

Miguel Huerta: Yeah.

00:57:25,266 --> 00:57:29,166

They can always go to our website

Asociación Mexicana de Glamping,

00:57:29,766 --> 00:57:33,406

Mexican Glamping Association in Spanish

asociacionmexicanadeglamping.com.

00:57:33,896 --> 00:57:37,116

Of course for my company

Nantli, nantli.travel

00:57:37,986 --> 00:57:43,286

we are, a holding that specializes

in glamping tour operators

00:57:43,376 --> 00:57:45,136

and hotel commercialization.

00:57:45,586 --> 00:57:50,436

And well on, on my side I'm really

excited for the Glamping Show.

00:57:50,736 --> 00:57:56,341

We're gonna be a hosting the first

Spanish speaking event, which will

00:57:56,466 --> 00:58:01,446

be hosted along with our friends from

the American Glamping Association.

00:58:01,776 --> 00:58:08,731

So on September 30, we are gonna

have some cafe de audia and some

00:58:08,781 --> 00:58:13,971

insights in Spanish that we will be

translating in real time with Brian's

00:58:13,971 --> 00:58:16,761

help through chat GPT in English.

00:58:17,151 --> 00:58:20,281

And at the end we're looking for

cross-pollination, where we share

00:58:20,611 --> 00:58:24,771

good practices that are working in

Latin America that can be applied

00:58:24,771 --> 00:58:26,546

in the states and vice versa.

00:58:26,876 --> 00:58:29,666

So as you can see, we

have lots of numbers.

00:58:29,926 --> 00:58:34,886

I'm dressed up because as soon as I hang

up I'm going to a huge tourism summit.

00:58:35,126 --> 00:58:41,306

So as always, it's a pleasure and I'm

looking also forward for Scott's report

00:58:41,366 --> 00:58:42,896

that would be my highlight of the event.

00:58:44,786 --> 00:58:45,626

Brian Searl: Look at that, Scott.

00:58:45,626 --> 00:58:47,666

He's coming all the way

from Mexico just to see you.

00:58:47,966 --> 00:58:51,326

You should, like Steph said, you should

guarantee the outcome of your speech.

00:58:51,326 --> 00:58:54,056

I bet more people would come if you

guaranteed the data would turn into

00:58:54,776 --> 00:58:56,306

good actionable profit for them.

00:58:57,386 --> 00:58:59,096

I don't know if that would

be a win for you, but.

00:59:00,416 --> 00:59:00,956

You're muted.

00:59:00,956 --> 00:59:01,496

I can't hear you.

00:59:01,556 --> 00:59:02,576

We'll, just assume you're agreeing.

00:59:03,626 --> 00:59:05,586

Scott Bahr: I'm sorry I'm

muted because of the dogs.

00:59:05,976 --> 00:59:07,741

But yeah I can make guarantees.

00:59:07,891 --> 00:59:08,131

Brian Searl: All right.

00:59:08,191 --> 00:59:08,431

Noted.

00:59:09,271 --> 00:59:10,681

Alright, Rafael, last but not least.

00:59:11,491 --> 00:59:14,551

Rafael Correa: Yeah, I just wanna

put my board of director hat for OHI.

00:59:14,651 --> 00:59:18,581

So board of director voting is

open right now, opened on September

00:59:18,581 --> 00:59:21,191

1st and closes on September 18th.

00:59:21,191 --> 00:59:25,271

So there's a slate of new and

some returning board members

00:59:25,271 --> 00:59:26,561

that are up for reelection.

00:59:27,021 --> 00:59:27,951

Some great names in there.

00:59:27,951 --> 00:59:32,881

So if you're an OHI member, definitely

encourage you to go to ohi.org

00:59:32,881 --> 00:59:34,041

o-h-i.org

00:59:34,251 --> 00:59:35,751

and and cast your votes.

00:59:35,901 --> 00:59:37,401

Brian Searl: Do you know all

the names who are up right now?

00:59:37,731 --> 00:59:37,941

Can you

00:59:37,941 --> 00:59:40,416

Rafael Correa: I, yeah I do, but

there's eight of 'em and yeah.

00:59:40,416 --> 00:59:41,971

Brian Searl: I just wanna see

if you knew 'em by memory man,

00:59:41,971 --> 00:59:42,961

I was just giving you a test.

00:59:43,111 --> 00:59:44,461

Rafael Correa: Yeah, no, I

got it up on the screen here.

00:59:44,461 --> 00:59:46,111

I got, the dual monitor set up buddy.

00:59:47,171 --> 00:59:48,701

Brian Searl: Yes, definitely

good vote for that stuff.

00:59:48,701 --> 00:59:50,951

'Cause obviously the board of

directors is very important for

00:59:51,011 --> 00:59:53,411

OHI and how they steer the industry

forward and all that kind of stuff.

00:59:53,411 --> 00:59:55,811

So yes, please, if you're

a member, go do that.

00:59:56,151 --> 00:59:57,261

Where can they learn

more about Blue Water?

00:59:57,841 --> 01:00:00,351

Rafael Correa:

Bravo-whiskey-delta-charlie.com.

01:00:01,021 --> 01:00:01,441

Brian Searl: All right.

01:00:01,441 --> 01:00:01,801

Awesome.

01:00:01,801 --> 01:00:04,141

Thank you guys for joining us for

another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

01:00:04,141 --> 01:00:06,461

If you're not sick and tired of

hearing from me and Scott Bahr,

01:00:06,481 --> 01:00:11,551

we will be on Outwired in 4, 53

minutes, 52 minutes and eight seconds.

01:00:12,071 --> 01:00:14,781

So you can hear more about us

talking about some what are

01:00:14,781 --> 01:00:15,831

we talking about today, Scott?

01:00:16,941 --> 01:00:17,331

I don't know.

01:00:17,331 --> 01:00:19,461

Some crazy topic about

some futuristic things.

01:00:19,511 --> 01:00:20,286

Yeah, that's a good.

01:00:20,656 --> 01:00:21,886

Scott Bahr: There is no off season, sorry.

01:00:21,896 --> 01:00:23,441

Brian Searl: Scott will

guarantee your success if you

01:00:23,441 --> 01:00:24,431

show up and watch our podcast.

01:00:25,031 --> 01:00:25,451

Scott Bahr: Of course.

01:00:25,661 --> 01:00:26,621

So welcome.

01:00:26,951 --> 01:00:28,551

Brian Searl: But other than that

I'm gonna be gone for the next

01:00:28,551 --> 01:00:29,781

two weeks and MC Fireside Chats.

01:00:29,781 --> 01:00:32,631

We have two great guest host Zach

Stoltenberg will be taking over next week

01:00:32,631 --> 01:00:36,711

for me, and then Rafael's gonna host for

me two weeks from today as a guest host.

01:00:36,711 --> 01:00:39,171

So we will see you in three weeks.

01:00:39,171 --> 01:00:39,981

I'll see you in three weeks.

01:00:39,981 --> 01:00:42,701

Other than that, join us next week for

MC Fireside Chats, later for Outwired.

01:00:42,921 --> 01:00:43,521

Take care guys.

01:00:43,691 --> 01:00:44,541

Rafael Correa: Safe travels, Brian.

01:00:44,541 --> 01:00:45,151

Simon Neal: Bye-bye