The episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl (Insider Perks and Modern Campground), opened with lighthearted chat about Brian's new "Irish look" before diving into industry matters with his recurring and special guests. The recurring panel included Mike Harrison (CRR Hospitality) and Sandy Ellingson (Sandy Ellingson, LLC), joined by special guests Sangeetha Ramkumar (Dunya Camp) and Hannah Terry (Wildwoodland Retreat).

The discussion initially focused on major industry news, with Sandy Ellingson sharing the "uproar" over the new NEC 551 electrical code release. She clarified that AI-written articles had caused widespread panic by incorrectly stating campgrounds needed to immediately upgrade all pedestals. She assured operators that the requirements primarily target RV manufacturers (OEMs) and advised against immediate panic, promising a detailed paper and podcast with an author of the code to offer correct guidance.

Mike Harrison then brought up the ongoing post-Glamping Show discussion regarding Marriott's Bonvoy Outdoor Collection announcement, calling it a "great evolution" for the space. He asserted that, regardless of how the properties are defined, this move will bring "incredible" awareness, distribution, marketing, and data to the entire outdoor hospitality sector, accelerating its evolution.

Brian Searl and Sandy Ellingson briefly countered, questioning the collection's benefit to the existing glamping industry since Marriott appears to be strategically avoiding the word "glamping" to prevent confusion with older, less luxurious definitions of the term. Sandy noted that her research indicated the word "glamping" was originally confusing, leading hotel chains to prefer "Luxury Camping" or "Outdoor Hospitality."

Sangeetha Ramkumar, with 11 years of experience at IHG (InterContinental Hotels Group), confirmed this strategic avoidance, stating that large companies prefer not to "spend a lot of money to overcome existing meanings." She predicted that major hotel chains will not pursue deals with small, independent properties but will wait to acquire consolidated entities or purpose-built brands like Under Canvas or Postcard Cabins, suggesting that this acquisition strategy is the future for luxury outdoor hospitality.

Sangeetha then introduced her property, Dunya Camp, a luxury glamping site in North Georgia. The camp was born out of a desire to reconcile her "inside cat" hotel background with her "outside cat" husband's love for camping. Her goal was to create a destination that felt highly "transportive" and "bespoke" through focused, crafted design, drawing inspiration from old-school luxury hotels, African safari camps, and Moroccan riads.

The conversation shifted to the importance of operations in supporting the luxury experience. Sangeetha highlighted that maintaining the pristine condition of the property is paramount, as a ratty appearance can quickly destroy the first impression, even if the unit is clean. She revealed that Dunya Camp operates on a consolidated check-in schedule (Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays) to ensure efficient cleaning by crews traveling from Metro Atlanta and to maintain privacy and quiet for guests, treating the stay like a "show" with set start and end times.

Hannah Terry then introduced her property, Wildwoodland Retreat in the UK, a tiny operation started 10 years ago to diversify her small family farm. Motivated by a need for self-sufficiency after a career-ending illness, Hannah used the money from selling her house to buy two Shepherd’s Huts instead of one costly treehouse. She spoke honestly about the hard work involved, running the operation herself while raising two young children, and the later decision to stop using tents due to the UK's rainfall causing mold, eventually pivoting to simple camping pitches which, surprisingly, have proven more financially successful than the glamping units.

Hannah explained that the glamping market in the UK is now "swamped" and consumer demands have risen drastically for high-end features like hot tubs, which she resists due to the intensive operational load. Mike Harrison offered quick operational advice, advising Hannah to focus on the profit dollars of glamping rather than the margin of camping, and to maximize her higher-paying units if demand proves sufficient. Sandy Ellingson further suggested that Hannah explore agritourism, sharing success stories of farms where the experience of being around livestock (goats, cows, chickens) is enough to attract a large volume of campers, regardless of accommodation type.

Finally, Hannah shared her retreat's unique selling proposition: Goat Yoga and Goat Walking, which she found to be her most popular offerings, particularly the Goat Yoga. Interestingly, she noted that 90% of those booking the animal experiences are not overnight guests, suggesting a marketing disconnect she needs to address. She closed the show with exciting news: she purchased four baby goats to host special indoor Goat Yoga sessions during the winter, which Brian Searl vowed his girlfriend would book immediately. The episode concluded with a final call to action for operators to focus on the human element, attention to detail, and a clear understanding of the customer's desired experience.

Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

2

My name's Brian Searl with Insider

Perks and Modern Campground.

3

I've got my Irish hat on mostly because

I didn't shave my head, so I feel

4

like that's just gonna be my new look.

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Whenever I wear that Irish

hat, you can just assume that

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I forgot to shave my head.

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That'll be our secret code.

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No, it's my new look.

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Have you seen this yet, Sandy?

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Like I came back from Ireland and like I

feel it fits my personality pretty well.

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Sandy Ellingson: I think

it fits your personality.

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Perfect.

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I love it.

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Brian Searl: Wait till you see

my, are you gonna be at OHI Sandy?

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Sandy Ellingson: Yes.

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Just for one day.

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Brian Searl: Okay.

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I have a Irish Donal tweed

coat that I bought too.

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I don't normally come home with

souvenirs ever, but my family

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is at least some portion Irish.

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And then now I wanna do a DNA

test to make sure I'm worthy of

22

wearing that coat, but I'm not sure

companies that information yet.

23

So we'll figure it out.

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Welcome everybody.

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So excited to be here for you.

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This is our, is it 1, 2, 3 third

week episode of the month, the 15.

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Anyway welcome everybody.

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We are joined by a couple of our

recurring guests here, Mike Harrison

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from CRR Hospitality, Sandy Ellingson

from, is it Campground Advocate?

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Is that now you have an official name?

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Sandy Ellingson: Yeah, it's, my

company is Sandy Ellingson, LLC.

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Brian Searl: Okay.

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That's what I thought.

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I thought it was Sandy Ellingson,

but Campground Advocate is good.

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I feel like that's a name.

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Didn't Art Lieberman use that years

ago when he was, did you ever know Art?

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Sandy Ellingson: I knew who he was, but

I just, that's the way they describe

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me for what I do when I started.

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Brian Searl: I feel like

I own that domain name.

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So if you have a $10,000 sitting around,

I think I have campgroundadvocate.com.

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I'm just saying.

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Sandy Ellingson: Ah, gotcha.

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Brian Searl: And then we have, and then

we have Hannah all the way from UK.

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Welcome, Hannah.

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Hannah Terry: Hi.

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Brian Searl: Oh, we have Sangeetha

here who's gonna join us too.

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Our other special guests.

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So we wanna go around the room

briefly and just introduce ourselves.

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We'll start with our recurring guest.

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Mike, you wanna go first?

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Mike Harrison: Sure.

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Good afternoon.

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Mike Harrison, with CRR Hospitality,

we own and manage luxury RVer

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Resorts, glamping and hotels.

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Also do consulting and third

party management work for others.

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Thank you.

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Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Mike.

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As always, Sandy.

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Sandy Ellingson: I sold

a technology company.

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I was already an RVer and somehow

vicariously ended up helping

61

campgrounds and the industry and it

became a second career, and I love it.

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So I do serve as a campground

advocate as we were talking about.

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So most of what I get to

do for campgrounds is free.

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Brian Searl: But can you

work for me for free too?

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Sandy Ellingson: I sure can if

you're working with a campground.

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Brian Searl: Mike, can I work

with one of your campgrounds?

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Mike Harrison: Not for free.

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Brian Searl: Damn it.

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All right.

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We'll figure this out after the show.

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Hannah, please introduce yourself.

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Hannah Terry: Okay.

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Hi, I'm Hannah from the UK.

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I own Wildwoodland Retreat, which did

a tiny campsite camping glampsite,

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goat yoga, different things going on.

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And we're a farm as well, so that's

the main, it was mainly a farm.

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And then 10 years ago I decided

to do the glamping and later

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on a camping and other things.

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Yeah, that, that's me.

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Sandy Ellingson: So Hannah,

are you including a lot of

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agritourism in your Glamping?

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Hannah Terry: No.

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Sandy Ellingson: That's

become very popular.

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We have a lot of people coming

from England to one of my parks

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that's in Agritourism Park.

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Hannah Terry: Okay, that's interesting.

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Yeah, the farm is just so bad

now, it is just not really earning

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any money and husband's just a

bit down about it and it's yeah.

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So it's not really knowing where to go

with that, with the farm at the moment.

90

So yeah, I haven't even

looked into that or, yeah.

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Brian Searl: We're excited.

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I'm excited to dive into your

property, learn more about it.

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I specifically, and don't answer this

question yet 'cause we wanna keep the

94

people watching the show for a little bit.

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'cause they won't stay just for me.

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They stay for the special guest.

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So I want to know if you can do

goat yoga with baby goats too,

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or if it's just adult goats.

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'Cause my girlfriend will

be on a plane tomorrow.

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If you can do video with baby goats.

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You can't answer yet, they'll turn off.

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Hannah Terry: No, I'm not answer.

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Brian Searl: Okay.

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Sorry.

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Stay tuned for MC Fireside Chats.

106

We'll reveal the answer soon.

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Sangeetha , is it Sangeetha or Sanjitha?

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I'm so sorry.

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I know I'm pronouncing it wrong.

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Sangeetha Ramkumar: It's Sangeetha

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Brian Searl: Oh, I did get it right.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Perfect.

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Sangeetha , welcome.

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Can you please introduce yourself

and tell us where you're from?

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Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yes.

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So Sangeetha Ramkumar, I'm

the owner of Dunya Camp.

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We're a glamping property

in North Georgia.

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I've been in business for,

this is our third year.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Excited to learn more

about, is it Dunya Camp?

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Did I pronounce that right?

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Sangeetha Ramkumar: Dunya.

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Brian Searl: Okay.

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Excited to learn more about your business.

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So typically how we start

this show is I'll go to my

128

recurring guests, Mike and Sandy.

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Is there anything that has come across

your guys' desk in the last month

130

since you've all been on the show

together that you feel is worthy of

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discussion or discourse or anything else?

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Sandy Ellingson: We've had a, an

uproar going on since Thursday.

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The new NEC 551 code was released

and there was a document that

134

was released internally with

all the guys doing electrical.

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And a lot of our places that are

most popular places to go and read

136

about this kinda stuff picked it up.

137

But AI wrote the articles and

they were absolutely incorrect.

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So I've had a, just literally over a

hundred phone calls since Thursday from

139

campgrounds that are concerned about it.

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And so we're gonna be

putting out a paper on it.

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We've already done a press release,

and we'll be doing I'm gonna do a

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recorded podcast with one of the

people that's the author of the paper.

143

And we'll put that out

there for everybody to see.

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But for right now, I just need

to my campgrounds to know,

145

you do not need to panic.

146

You do not have to convert every single

one of your pedestals immediately.

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And it's not a requirement

on the campgrounds, it's a

148

requirement on the industry.

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Brian Searl: So for clarity, for the

people who don't know what that is, the.

150

Sandy Ellingson: Okay.

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So the NEC is the organization

that oversees all of the the

152

way electrical things are put

together and monitored and safe.

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So there's been a lot of discussion

for a couple years about the hooking

154

up to your, hooking your RV, up

to the pedestals in campgrounds.

155

And it's been a very hot topic

because the types of pedestals, the

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age of the pedestals, the safety

of the pedestals has been, concern

157

because some of the older pedestals

have not been replaced in 30 years.

158

And then these newer campgrounds come

in with a higher energy draw and there,

159

there could create some problems.

160

And so there's been a lot of

discussion on how to fix that.

161

The parks have been afraid

in the past about that.

162

And so now basically what they're gonna

be doing is just making the OEMs, the

163

people that make the RVs are gonna be

a little bit more responsible for it.

164

And there are gonna be some things coming

for the campgrounds, but not requirements

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and things that actually might help them

long-term with marketing their parks.

166

So I'm working on that with them.

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We'll see how that goes.

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But it all talk, it's all

about how the pedestal at a

169

campground connects to an RV.

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Brian Searl: Is it true that when

the government is shut down, that you

171

don't have to follow any of the laws?

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Sandy Ellingson: Exactly.

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Brian Searl: So I can ignore that for now.

174

'cause AI told me that too.

175

I just wanted to make

sure that was the case.

176

So don't worry about this

until the government.

177

No, I'm just kidding.

178

Definitely don't listen

to me for legal advice.

179

Mike, anything that's

come across your desk?

180

Mike Harrison: We finished up the

Glamping Show, last week, which

181

I think was, a great evolution

of what it's continued to be.

182

And I think some of the big news that

was released without, being repetitive,

183

but I don't think it's repetitive for

those that aren't aware, is, Marriott's

184

news about getting into the space.

185

Going into the deep end, obviously last

year they bought postcard cabins, but.

186

Last week they announced the

Marriott Bonvoy Outdoor Collection.

187

They were at the lodging conference in

Scottsdale last week presenting with

188

several of, we would know many of the

glamping manufacturers to get really

189

fully engaged in the outdoor space.

190

And depending on which perch you sit

on, that's a good thing or a bad thing.

191

Ultimately I think it's

an incredible thing.

192

It'll bring more awareness,

distribution, marketing, knowledge,

193

data, everything that, we've been

yammering for to help grow the space.

194

So I'm pretty excited about that.

195

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think I and

again, we don't wanna spend too

196

much of the show on it 'cause

we've covered a few other places.

197

I think we talked about it last week

on the show briefly, and then obviously

198

the Glamping Show and it's been all

over LinkedIn and we did a little bit

199

of a take with my, myself and Scott

Bahr on this, on Outwired last week.

200

And I agree with you.

201

The attention is good.

202

I think it will bring awareness to the

ability of people to who maybe have

203

not considered cabin rentals, like

postcard rentals are staying out, being

204

more connected in nature without the

walls around them of shared rooms.

205

I think to me it's questionable about

how far they're pushing into Glamping.

206

'cause the word Glamping is not

used in many places on their website

207

and there's a lot of hotels that

they're including in this package.

208

And to the best of my knowledge so far,

despite those vendors being there, and

209

obviously this is gonna change and this is

gonna evolve and we don't know where this

210

is gonna go yet 'cause Secret Creek was

there, like you're saying in Zuck and the

211

OOD mirror cabins and things like that.

212

I have I've seen hotels be part of

this collection and cabin rentals.

213

I haven't seen what I would consider

real Glamping, which doesn't have

214

a definition, but the, in like

from our industry side of it.

215

That diversity of a resort

experience around Glamping.

216

So we'll see.

217

Like it definitely is not going to hurt.

218

But I'm tempering my expectations,

and then I'll just be pleasantly

219

surprised, which I hope I will be.

220

So it'll be interesting to see.

221

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah.

222

My question was, if you put a tent

on a patio on the 12th floor of

223

the Hilton in New York City, and

they have to go inside and use the

224

public bathrooms, is that glamping?

225

But they're getting $700 a night for it.

226

Brian Searl: I don't know.

227

It's a good business model.

228

Sandy Ellingson: So.

229

Brian Searl: Who cares what it's called.

230

Mike Harrison: I think as we've spoken

on this show multiple times, glamping

231

can be whatever you define it as, right?

232

Brian Searl: Yes.

233

Mike Harrison: There are the pure,

there are the purists who say

234

glamping is only a yurt on the side

of a cliff overlooking the stars.

235

There's no one around you.

236

But, I think as we're seeing Glamping

evolve to many different definitions,

237

there's glamping in an RV resort,

there's Glamping only properties,

238

there's multiple glampings, there's

Auto Camp, there's postcard.

239

And I think ultimately you know what it

does is it just, it, it brings awareness

240

to the space and will absolutely

have people hunting for outdoor

241

hospitality, whatever that looks like.

242

However that's defined

from a glamping standpoint.

243

It will provide, marketing dollars

power driving for data that we

244

haven't, been able to be fully

successful with on our own yet it

245

will absolutely evolve the space.

246

So whatever that looks like

and how you define whatever

247

they deliver to be determined.

248

But it for sure will, will

enhance the space overall.

249

Brian Searl: I for sure agree with that.

250

It for sure is going to

push operators forward.

251

It's gonna evolve the space.

252

Yeah, I'm a hundred

percent on board with that.

253

I'm just not sure how much of a

benefit it's gonna be to the existing

254

glamping industry, but we'll see.

255

Like I'm not, I'm neither

optimistic nor pessimistic.

256

I'm just saying let's see, 'cause

glamping we looked at the website

257

is not all over the place.

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Yeah.

259

Right there.

260

Which it doesn't need to be.

261

That's not the, necessarily

the word that has to be used.

262

I think outdoor hospitality,

luxury camping overall is

263

probably a better fit, but.

264

Sandy Ellingson: And I was actually

working on some of the research for one

265

of the hotel chains vicariously through a

friend, and when they researched the word

266

glamping, they strategically chose not

to use it because all of the historical

267

research they found, not just not looking

at current, but everything, there was

268

more references to glamping or being a

glamper from what its original context

269

was, which meant you were camping in an

RV, tent camping was camping, glamping

270

was camping in an RV, and so they did

not want to be confused with that.

271

And so that's why they're

strategically not using that.

272

Brian Searl: What do you think Sangeetha?

273

Sangeetha Ramkumar: I agree.

274

I think glamping is really not

something even, so I used to work

275

for IHG for 11 years, it was.

276

Brian Searl: Okay, now we're even

more interested in what you think.

277

So go ahead.

278

We're interested before, but I'm just

saying that adds a credibility layer.

279

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah.

280

So yeah, that was my world.

281

It's just, yeah, they're, the optics

are important and they're not gonna

282

invest in something that they're

gonna have to spend a lot of money

283

to overcome existing meanings.

284

They're just not gonna do that.

285

They're just gonna take the easy way out.

286

So yeah, I agree.

287

I think glamping is gonna

be less relevant to them.

288

Luxury camping, outdoor hospitality

are gonna be much more viable.

289

Brian Searl: So I know we want to

talk mostly about Danya Camp on here.

290

But will you please give us your, just

from working at 11 years at IHG, how do

291

you feel like the hotel industry will

change, evolve, adapt to the space.

292

Sangeetha Ramkumar: To this space?

293

My gosh, I think there's

already rumblings.

294

Brian Searl: Yeah, there is.

295

But will they dip their toes into it?

296

Will they go more into it

like Marriott will they?

297

Sangeetha Ramkumar: It's

still nascent, right?

298

When you think about large companies like

that, they're not interested in smaller

299

properties and right now the landscape is

a bunch of millions of smaller properties.

300

That's not something

they're interested in.

301

It costs them too much money to

go chase these smaller deals.

302

They're looking for consolidated

entities, whatever that is.

303

Like design hotels, Marriott, as an

example, some guy put a bunch of hotels

304

and called it design hotels, but he did

all the grunt work and there were quite

305

a few properties under that umbrella.

306

And Marriott just swooped

in and bought that.

307

So it's, that's what I'm

envisioning is gonna happen if

308

the glamping operators are smart.

309

They're not gonna go one by one

to find these smaller deals.

310

So that's just my take from based on.

311

Brian Searl: So we either need a glamping

operator that's going to build their

312

own brand, almost an Under Canvas did.

313

Exactly like Under Canvas did.

314

Or something like that.

315

Or a postcard cabins, or things like that.

316

Or we need somebody who's gonna do some

consolidation work, some standardization

317

work of acquiring existing properties

and turning them into something similar.

318

And then Marriott acquires them.

319

So like it eats up the food chain.

320

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Exactly.

321

That's pretty much all.

322

Brian Searl: Okay.

323

Tell us about, is it I don't know if I'm

pronouncing it right, Dunya Camp, Dunya.

324

I feel like I'm pronouncing it wrong.

325

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah, but there

were other way to pronounce it is Dunya.

326

Brian Searl: Dunya.

327

Okay.

328

Yeah.

329

Yeah.

330

So tell us about Dunya Camp.

331

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah.

332

So this was a post IHG post

COVID or during COVID project.

333

It was actually my, one of my, what I

called my little project, which ended

334

up being not so little after all.

335

'cause I was chasing so many

other deals at that time.

336

Mostly in the traditional hotel space,

but somehow this is the one that kind of

337

survived, it, and it was a lot of work.

338

As they say, it's the same amount of

work, whether you're doing a hundred

339

million dollar deal or $5 million deal.

340

So yeah, so this was, I've

always wanted a brand of my own.

341

I just didn't think it was gonna be

in the Glamping luxury camping space.

342

But it just happened, I think I

also got married and my husband

343

is very much an outdoors person.

344

He's an outside cat.

345

I'm an inside cat.

346

And so we had to compromise on vacations

and so that was the genesis for the

347

idea is we went camping and I was

like, how do I do this but not this?

348

And yeah, that's how the idea started.

349

Brian Searl: Did you say it started

as an IHG project or you were

350

just workingat IHG that time?

351

Sangeetha Ramkumar:

Yeah, this was post IHG.

352

Yeah, this was, I left right before COVID

to go do my own thing and then COVID

353

happened and I had all this free time.

354

Brian Searl: So what was your idea behind

this when you first got it started?

355

Sangeetha Ramkumar: So it was based on a

camping trip that I took with my husband.

356

We went to we went out west and

camped for three nights, and it

357

was quite, quite experience for me.

358

I'm not really a camper.

359

And it was just one of those conversations

you're like this would be nice, but if,

360

and then all of a sudden in my hotel hat,

it's I wonder this could be something.

361

Not that Glamping wasn't a thing.

362

Brian Searl: Yeah.

363

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Marriott was

putting up tents at Coachella for

364

years, so it wasn't anything new.

365

It's just was new to me.

366

So I had to do a little bit more research

and yeah, we really liked the idea

367

of it being some something different.

368

It's not.

369

Brian Searl: So how did.

370

I like what, I guess my first question

is what makes doing a camp different

371

in your mind and through your eyes?

372

Sangeetha Ramkumar: I think the

design, we really invested heavily

373

in creating something that felt very

different from your everyday world.

374

That was important to me.

375

'Cause when you spend this kind of

money, you wanna be somewhere else.

376

And so having the opportunity to

drive two, three hours and feel

377

you're in a completely different

continent that, that was the draw.

378

So we wanted to create something

that was very special, very

379

beautiful, very crafted.

380

Didn't feel like, 'cause even

luxury hotels these days,

381

it's just mass produced.

382

Yeah, the room is all the same.

383

You spend $2000 a night,

it's still the same room.

384

We try to make it a little bit bespoke.

385

Not everything is bespoke,

but quite a bit of it is.

386

Brian Searl: Did you

model it off something?

387

Did you see, take

inspiration from anything?

388

Did you.

389

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah, quite a bit.

390

Gosh, we looked at Jack's camp,

all of the South African projects.

391

Yeah, quite a few hotels.

392

More kind of old school lottery hotels.

393

A lot of Moroccan Riyadh.

394

Yeah, it's quite, it was all over the

place in places I've been to, liked.

395

Brian Searl: It is interesting to me,

like I, and we've had a couple guests

396

mention this on the show previously,

but how I don't know if it's fair to say

397

this, I haven't done enough research,

but I think like you could say that

398

glamping was basically modeled off of

some of those African camps, right?

399

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah.

400

And then if you go back, even historically

it was modeled off the Kings, the Indian

401

Kings elaborate tents, so do the Persian

Kings, those tents are now sitting in a

402

country house in the English countryside

actually, and you can go see them.

403

They're quite elaborate.

404

Yeah, they're, it was

the original glamping.

405

It was for royalty.

406

And.

407

Brian Searl: I feel like

that would be a good show.

408

Mike, can you sponsor me

on a trip to go see those?

409

Mike Harrison: I'll be right there.

410

Brian Searl: Okay.

411

Thank you.

412

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah,

so there's some precedent.

413

Yeah.

414

Thing it goes back centuries.

415

Brian Searl: It really it

is, it's fascinating to me.

416

And I guess I, maybe that's a story

that we for sure need to dive into.

417

Sharah, if you're listening, we need

to find some guests to talk about that.

418

Maybe we can find the people from the

property who have the tents or just maybe

419

even a couple historians to talk about

it, because I think that's something

420

fascinating that like we talk about

Glamping is new in the United States,

421

and then we talk about how the UK, we're

gonna get to Hannah here in a second.

422

But like how, glamping is much more

evolved in the UK but like nowhere is

423

as evolved as what we're talking about

with the Pharaohs and the Kings and the

424

African safari camps and things like that.

425

And that's the roots of where

all that stuff come from.

426

I think it would be fine.

427

Funny, not funny.

428

It would be interesting too.

429

Learn the history of all of those things.

430

So tell us how did you end up choosing

your location and where you're at and

431

what your kind of mission is, and who

your guests are that you wanna serve?

432

Sangeetha Ramkumar: I'm from Atlanta.

433

That's where I live during

434

I've been there since then.

435

And so Georgia is my home state.

436

So I did look for land.

437

It took a year.

438

Land I think is the most important

character in land, in luxury camping.

439

It's just, it's the

primary it's the main star.

440

So you've gotta find the right land.

441

It's gotta feel good, it's

gotta have the good views.

442

It's gotta be worth, driving

up there and being there.

443

So it took us a while.

444

I think that was the hardest part.

445

It was finding the

right piece of property.

446

We looked all over Tennessee, North

Carolina, and then ended up in North

447

Georgia, but actually the northwest

corner of the state, which I have no clue.

448

I had no clue.

449

I didn't even know how

this portion existed.

450

But I saw the property advertised on

Land Watch and they had this company

451

out of Colorado had just bought.

452

I dunno, several hundred acres and they

were carving it up and yeah, we went

453

to go see it and it was just stunning.

454

Brian Searl: Mike, I'm curious I'm gonna

put you on the spot here for a second.

455

Mike, have you, has CRR ever considered

like doing a glamping only resort,

456

either from management or from ownership?

457

Mike Harrison: Absolutely.

458

We've considered several times.

459

We've looked at a couple on our own.

460

We've still got a couple pieces of land

that we've been, looking to cultivate

461

for three or four or five years.

462

We just haven't found the right best

use case and the demand factor, we just

463

haven't felt was the right opportunity.

464

We've spoken to multiple

investors and partners.

465

About glamping only.

466

We have three that we're working

on right now that are in various

467

stages that may or may not come to

fruition that will either be partners

468

or con or management companies on.

469

But it's, the glamping only

properties, we go back to the earlier

470

discussion, there's several versions.

471

Like looking at Sangeetha's property,

there's seven, eight, $900 a night type

472

units, which, you're not typically gonna

find a 40, 50, 60 Glamping only unit

473

type property of those kinds of units.

474

They're typically gonna be, three to 10

to 12, Bolt Tree Farms is another one.

475

There's examples of those.

476

And then there's the, $ 300 to

$700 type units, Auto Camp version,

477

if you will, postcard cabins.

478

And it depends on what kind

of access to capital you have,

479

what your demand factors are.

480

I think it's becoming more, and we just

talked to a client yesterday where five,

481

six years ago we pitched something.

482

They had pitched something, I should say.

483

And it was a 60, 70 unit

project and back then nobody

484

had heard of that kind of thing.

485

And now it's back on the

table five years later.

486

Feasibility study says it works.

487

And long story short is yes, it just

needs to be the right opportunity.

488

They're far more expense.

489

They're outdoor lodging units.

490

Brian Searl: Yeah.

491

Mike Harrison: But it also depends

again, what your definition.

492

If you're a purist and you want three,

five units on the side of the Grand

493

Canyon versus a 60 unit glamping property

they're not exactly the same thing.

494

Brian Searl: No.

495

Mike Harrison: Which

is what's fun about it.

496

They never will be.

497

It's not a courtyard

compared to a courtyard.

498

Compared to a courtyard.

499

They're all unique,

they're all individual.

500

They all have.

501

Bespoke DNA, and so it's not

a one size fits all answer.

502

I don't know if that

answered your question.

503

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think so.

504

That's the 'cause we hear, we, like

I, I come from this world of mostly RV

505

resort hybrid cabin rentals, glamping,

and then I'm getting into over the last

506

five years the pure glamping resorts.

507

And so it interests me to hear

from the people who have started

508

in the RV Resort environment.

509

Is that still now that you've been exposed

to glamping and the changes in consumer

510

behavior and the rise of places like Hip

Camp and Harvest Hosts and the need for

511

greater experiences and the diversity of

the economy and all those things, are you

512

open to like maybe camping or whatever

you wanna call it, can exist without

513

RV's in some places in the right use

case with the right feasibility study.

514

That's I wanna get to Hannah's story, but

I have one more question for you, Mike.

515

If Marriott opened franchising for

an outdoor resort that was more

516

of a hotel, but still connected

to nature, would you be in line?

517

Mike Harrison: A hundred percent.

518

We're an approved Marriott

manager company right now.

519

Number one.

520

Number two is, if you look at

the new Marriott Bonvoy Outdoor

521

Collection they didn't just open

450 glamping resorts, right?

522

If you go through them,

they're curated properties that

523

are outdoor hospitality ish

524

That include experiences more than

like what Sangeetha property is,

525

which is built out of the side of

a mountain in an incredible unit.

526

You know where this goes

and how this evolves.

527

It's very nebulous, which I think is good.

528

Because it can be one of

many different things.

529

So they've already opened it.

530

That's the entire intent of that

out Outdoor Bonvoy Collection is

531

to, create this different segment.

532

But what it ends up being,

is up for discussion.

533

And I don't think anybody

will be able to answer it.

534

If you look at that collection

of properties not one of

535

them is gonna be the same.

536

Brian Searl: No, but I think

that's the beauty of it, right?

537

I think the idea is I want to have a

place where I can be connected to nature.

538

And if that's in a separate individual

safari tent, if that's in a disconnected

539

postcard cabin, if that's in a resort

in Costa Rica where like maybe three

540

or four people are next to me, but I

have my own private balcony overlooking

541

the jungle and I can walk out the

back door and go on hiking trails

542

through the rainforest that's what

I just wanna be connected to nature.

543

And I think there's so many different

opportunities for ways to do that,

544

that Marriott is gonna open up kind

of that, like you said the capital,

545

the vision, the ability for people to

more seek legitimacy, I think in this

546

industry, not that it's not legitimate

already, but from banks and cities and

547

developers and all those kinds of things.

548

I think it brings in those.

549

Mike Harrison: And you just said

it is how I define it, right?

550

Outdoor to, access to the outdoors.

551

If you go back to the original

definition of glamping, it's

552

glamorous camping, right?

553

And so what does that mean?

554

There is no, you're gonna break the law

rule depending on how you define it.

555

But we just had a session yesterday

with our entire leadership team

556

about, is it a vacation rental

unit or is it a glamping unit?

557

And really to me, what differentiates

the glamping unit is how do you

558

leverage the outdoors, right?

559

What, where is your property sit?

560

What does the programming look like?

561

How are they engaging wellness?

562

What's the holistic experience?

563

Because otherwise it's a vacation rental

unit, you might as well Airbnb put the

564

code in the door, enjoy your status.

565

Brian Searl: There's some

pretty nice Airbnbs that are

566

connected to nature though.

567

But anyway

568

Mike Harrison: Of course, of course.

569

But that's exactly how we defined

it yesterday is really, where these

570

units differentiate themselves is you

have access to the outdoors in some

571

form or fashion, and then the unit

is, while it's certainly important

572

component, it's the experience that, that

separates it more than anything else.

573

Brian Searl: For sure.

574

And I should have.

575

Mike Harrison: I'll shut up.

576

Brian Searl: No, I should have I should

have led up this for the show too.

577

Sangeetha or Hannah, after we talk

to you in a second obviously feel

578

free to ask, like we want you guys to

be interactive in the conversation.

579

Please don't feel like we have

to wait for you to come to you.

580

So if you have a question for Mike or you

have a question for Hannah or Hannah, you

581

have a question for Sangeetha or whatever.

582

Please.

583

We're just, the more I, the less I

talk, the better the show will be.

584

Hannah, please.

585

So sorry it took so long to get to you.

586

We were having a good conversation and

I know it's late over there in the UK.

587

Tell us about your property please,

but don't give away the goat yoga yet.

588

Hannah Terry: So our

farm's about 240 acres.

589

So it's a small farm.

590

It, so it's my husband's family farm.

591

His granddad bought the farm.

592

And 10 years ago a bit, no, 10

years ago I started the glamping.

593

Prior to that few years before I was

training as a lawyer and I was in my last

594

stages of training, but I became quite

ill with something called LED sensitivity.

595

A lot of people dunno what it is.

596

It just means you can't

be around like the laptop.

597

I'm, I've got everything wide.

598

There's no wifi, no

phone nothing wireless.

599

Yeah.

600

Brian Searl: Okay.

601

Hannah Terry: So I became really,

I came really sick in my career.

602

Okay.

603

So I had to just leave it, and then I

just spent money, like everyone does.

604

Trying to get better from something, spend

a lot of money on trying to get that.

605

Anyway, I had a house that was

my only home in the age of 19.

606

And then obviously I moved in

Mark at the farm and I sold my

607

little house to buy, first of

all, I was gonna get a tree house.

608

Okay.

609

To have on the farm in this beautiful

area on the valley hillside.

610

But the ones I was looking

at were hundred 20,000.

611

And that was the money I had.

612

127,000 pounds from my house that I sold.

613

And then my mom she lives in Australia,

but she was over at the time and she

614

said, why didn't you look at these shack.

615

You could get two for the less than that.

616

So that's what I ended up getting

to two Shepherd's Huts to begin to

617

earn myself some money because I'd

always been quite self-sufficient

618

like that and had my own career.

619

So I wanted to do something

and the farm was never earning

620

enough for the family really.

621

So that's how it began.

622

And my daughter was 18 months old and

that was fun trying to do everything

623

with an 18 month old in tow.

624

And my son was about five there.

625

And I did, yeah, I did everything then I

did all the cleaning, I did the ironing.

626

I run and got the breakfast

packs, the barbecue packs the

627

milk from the local dairy.

628

Oh my gosh.

629

I never realized how

much work it would be.

630

It was a lot.

631

Yeah.

632

Brian Searl: That's why

I am a podcast host.

633

I'm not brave enough.

634

Hannah Terry: I was like, oh my gosh.

635

And I had a friend who helped do some

cleaning after I, was it the first year?

636

Maybe I got to help, but it was now

and then I still did most of it.

637

Yeah.

638

And yeah just full on.

639

But two Shepherd's Huts.

640

So we've got like a Rewild Valley.

641

So 10, 10 years ago, actually same time

we put the Shepherd's Huts there, we

642

stopped putting the cows in so much.

643

So instead of one oak tree in the

valley, we now have loads of trees.

644

So it's remodeled itself.

645

And we have Sheperd's Huts on a

valley hillside, all on its own.

646

No one else around.

647

Not near a road, not near any houses.

648

And then we had the woodland hut

in our ancient woodland, which is

649

about 10 acres of ancient woodland.

650

And we don't have the

Woodland Hut there anymore.

651

'cause we took it away because

we thought we'd do something

652

different, something bigger.

653

'cause these Shepherd's

Huts are quite small.

654

They're like 15 foot by six

foot seven, something like that.

655

But then we never did

anything in the woodland.

656

So the Woodland hut is now sitting

out on our field not knowing

657

what we are gonna do with it.

658

But I have made a

decision with the Valley.

659

One to get, to build a larger unit

because it's not big enough for family.

660

I want to be able to have

families stay comfortably.

661

So that's gonna be our focus, but

it's just gonna be one nice unit now.

662

'Cause we haven't really got funds to

do two anyway now, to be honest, really.

663

So we need to do one nice one.

664

Three years ago we started just doing it.

665

Oh no.

666

Before that.

667

So we missed out a bit after COVID.

668

I decided to buy some of these

Lotus Bell tents I you seen in

669

the stargaze at Lotus Bell Tents.

670

Beautiful tents.

671

Okay.

672

I bought two of those and that's, so

we had the two hearts and the two Lotus

673

stargaze and we run those for two years.

674

So that was the first year

after COVID, and that's when it

675

became really busy that year.

676

Everyone was desperate just

to come out get out in nature.

677

But at the same time in England,

a lot of people started opening

678

up campsites, glampsites a

lot easier than it was for me.

679

So for me it was hell going to the

local council, they were awful.

680

They were not supportive.

681

But come COVID time people could get these

special licenses, it was a lot easier.

682

Okay.

683

So a lot more popped up.

684

But we thought, yeah, we'd

run this, we'd be busy.

685

And but to be honest, the tents in the

second year, and it was a hot summer.

686

We began to get mold on them and I was

like, what is, I can't be doing this.

687

I can't.

688

So we just did two years of the

Glamping tents and that's it.

689

Got rid of them.

690

Brian Searl: Yeah.

691

There's a lot of rain in the UK I

feel like that's probably a, an issue

692

for people with those kind of tents.

693

Hannah Terry: Yeah.

694

Yeah.

695

And it was I guess as well, one's on

the side of the woods where you get

696

the sun and then you get obviously

the change in temperature and then

697

that's when the mold comes, doesn't it?

698

And I thought, oh, I can't do this.

699

Yeah.

700

And yeah, the rain one year wasn't so

good and yeah, we just stopped doing,

701

went back to the huts and then opened

up for some camping pitches instead.

702

That's the best thing I could

have done is the camping pitching.

703

Yeah.

704

Brian Searl: So I'm curious as a

smaller operator, can I call, is that

705

fair to call you a smaller operator?

706

Hannah Terry: Yeah, it's tiny.

707

Tiny, yeah.

708

Brian Searl: As a smaller operator,

how do you look at it's been 10

709

years, you said since you started

your first glamping accommodation.

710

Yeah.

711

Or whatever we're calling it.

712

We haven't decided yet.

713

The outdoor hospitality Marriott, non

bonvoy, glamping, luxury camping, RV,

714

adventure, whatever we're calling it.

715

So since it's been 10 years since

you've had that, have you, you've

716

watched the glamping industry maybe in

the UK grow up and change around you.

717

Hannah Terry: Yeah.

718

Brian Searl: Does that impact how

you think about operating your

719

business, or are you just satisfied?

720

Yeah.

721

Like how does that.

722

Hannah Terry: Yeah, okay.

723

So what's happening, it used to be

bell tents, a lot of bell tents.

724

That was the first thing, shepherd huts.

725

Then it's exploded into so

many shepherd huts and then.

726

Yes, tents.

727

But now it's evolved to more

more high-end stuff really.

728

So we are left behind a bit, really with

our shepherd huts 10 years ago compared

729

to, everybody wants the hot tubs now.

730

That kind of thing, I don't want

to, I don't wanna be doing that.

731

I don't really wanna be,

the water flow's quite slow.

732

It helps, it's very off-grid anyway.

733

I don't wanna be empty hot tubs

every 48 hours trying to work

734

out what to do in the water.

735

I like people who just wanna

come for nature and the location.

736

It's stunning where it is.

737

It, so it's definitely the demands

have got higher, I would say a hundred

738

percent from just being a beautiful

place in, a beautiful place in nature

739

with yeah, simple accommodation really.

740

It's changed a lot and there's

so much in England now, it's

741

swamped really in the market.

742

Brian Searl: Do you feel like, has

it changed the consumer demand for

743

the types of accommodations they

want or has it expanded the market?

744

To just reach more people?

745

Hannah Terry: Yeah, good question.

746

I don't know, because looking at the,

what we've earned actually saying it,

747

so what we've earned from the first

year to now, I was thinking it's about

748

the same, but actually saying that

it's gone down if it's the same amount

749

of money, if it was 10 years ago.

750

So yeah.

751

May yeah.

752

I mean we get a lot of returning guests.

753

We get a lot of people who love it here.

754

But I, so at the moment I'm a bit

confused what to do for the best.

755

Really.

756

I'm in that situation at the moment.

757

I know the camping has done better

really than the glamping put together.

758

'Cause I know that was one of the

questions for me to look at list was

759

does the higher end, like the glamping

support the, more of the building

760

facilities for the camping and things?

761

Actually no, for me, the camping has been

better financially than the glamping.

762

'cause there's so much to think about

with glamping units so many costs.

763

And with the camping, there's just not.

764

Brian Searl: Can I put

you on the spot, Mike?

765

How would you diagnose this

and help her decide what to do?

766

I know you only have 30 seconds

and there's obviously deeper things

767

and things you need to know and all

that, but how would you just start

768

to approach this if you were her?

769

Mike Harrison: To me, numbers

and data always tell the story.

770

You got to analyze, which has

the higher revenue potential,

771

but it isn't necessarily about

revenue, it's about profit.

772

And so what we always say is if you look

at, profit from a margin standpoint,

773

your RV site is always, your camping

site is always gonna be more profitable.

774

From a margin standpoint, however,

your glamping is always gonna be more

775

profitable from a dollar standpoint.

776

You can't take margin to the bank,

you can take dollars to the bank.

777

What answers that question is

what is your demand, for those

778

and what is your operational load?

779

It's a far bigger question

than just, throwing that out.

780

But I would look at your numbers

and analyze, what is your potential,

781

but what is your more profitable,

which is gonna be the glamping.

782

It's just a question of, what's the

demand for there that you can drive that.

783

Brian Searl: Yeah, for sure.

784

I, it's way more complex, right?

785

I just wanted to give our audience

to people who are listening and then

786

her some, like, where do I start?

787

'cause I think that's a big blocker

for a lot of people who are building

788

glamping sites or trying to expand or

deciding whether to add RVing or subtract

789

RVing or whatever else is where do

790

Mike Harrison: it's, it's a

good point, Brian and the way

791

we look at it too is, you can.

792

And there's different

kinds of glamping, right?

793

Especially if you already have

Campspots that have hookups.

794

You can certainly look at park models,

which you can just plug and play, right?

795

You can get some cabins, that are

designated as RVIA vehicles, park models

796

that you can classify as glamping, which

you'll certainly get a higher rate at.

797

And, you can be flexible with your space.

798

You can move them.

799

Not that you would, but

in and out, so to speak.

800

Versus, what's a different type

of Glamping unit, like a yurt or,

801

permanent structure, et cetera.

802

But really the demand will dictate,

what you can and should do if the

803

demand says if you're sold out

every weekend on your Glamping units

804

then you're not charging enough.

805

And if you're sold out on your glamping

units, then you could probably use more.

806

But in general, you're going to

want to land on as many Glamping

807

units as you can that remain

profitable while you're maximizing

808

your occupancy revenue and profit.

809

The answer to that is the

individualized, per property.

810

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah.

811

And I don't know more all about what you

do on your farm, Hannah, but I've got

812

two parks that are agritourism parks.

813

I don't own 'em.

814

I work with them.

815

One is in central Florida and he has

Longhorn cattle, and he's the one that I

816

was telling you people have heard about

him and they fly in from New York and

817

all over the world 'cause their kids

have never seen a live cow, never seen

818

a goat, never seen all these things.

819

And literally he's got all this property.

820

He could probably put

10,000 camp tents on it.

821

He only had 10 hookup sites for RV.

822

But people will come in and stay in

tents even though they may or may

823

not be campers for the experience of

seeing what's going on in his farm.

824

My other friend she runs

a, an equine therapy.

825

She had to have a big farm.

826

She's big into horses, so

she does equine therapy.

827

Her husband was construction, had no

insurance, and fell off a ladder off

828

the top of a roof and broke his back.

829

11 months in a cast, and they

were about to lose the farm.

830

And so she came up with this

idea of inviting people to come

831

to their farm and just, if they

had an RV, they were boondocking.

832

If they wanted to come in tent camp, they

could bring their own tent or she would

833

sell 'em one and just a rent 'em one.

834

And literally in three months, they

had paid off all of their debt for

835

their past, for the past due bill from

her husband being out because people

836

would come just to camp on their

property, kinda watch what was going

837

on with her equine, see the horses.

838

They also had chickens and goats

that they just had for fun.

839

Her oldest son was 17 years old and

they would do a big breakfast where the

840

kids would go collect the eggs and they

would, they also had pigs and stuff too.

841

But anyway, the little kids that

were coming, they were getting the

842

eggs out of the hen house and they

thought they were getting to eat

843

the eggs that they had just gotten.

844

And so it was this huge thrill for them.

845

And so then, they've combined that

now, but they have one event a year

846

that's a big music thing that benefits

her equine nonprofit that brings in

847

over a hundred thousand in net profit.

848

And they never invested in one piece,

not a building, not a tiny home, nothing.

849

They bought tents from Walmart, so I

think there's a lot of possibilities for

850

where you are just to get started and then

that may fund more of what you wanna do.

851

So you get to where Sangeetha is.

852

I text you and saying, I'm three

hours south of you and I have

853

got to come see your location.

854

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Come visit.

855

We'd love to host you.

856

Brian Searl: Charge

her a double Sangeetha.

857

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah.

858

Brian Searl: She's got money.

859

She's got seven RV and

travels around the country.

860

She's got like 700 camps she works with.

861

You gotta, oh, we did, you did say

you work for free though, didn't you?

862

All right.

863

Maybe.

864

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah.

865

But, the industry takes care of me.

866

They make it, they understand

the importance of having good

867

campgrounds and enough of the, what

we call known and desirable sites.

868

And so they take good care of

me to make sure I am helping

869

to solve industry problems at

campgrounds, and it just works.

870

Brian Searl: How do you think about

this Sangeetha at your property?

871

How do you think about the guest

experience and how you continue to evolve

872

that for the people that you're serving?

873

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah, I mean

I think that's, and that, that's

874

the core of what we do, right?

875

At the end of the day, we wanna

create something that people feel

876

like it was worth their money to

come, come here and spend the time.

877

Yeah, I mean it's it's obviously

maintaining the properties, spend

878

a lot of time in maintenance.

879

'Cause that's the one thing I

noticed, something I've been in the

880

business for most of my adult career.

881

And I know that even at the Six

Senses, that a thousand dollar a night

882

experience can go down very fast.

883

If the willing is just in such

bad shape, it could be clean.

884

But if it's ratty looking, you

lost to lost the first impression.

885

So we take, we spend a lot of

time in maintaining the property.

886

We don't really do a lot of landscaping.

887

We just clean it up 'cause we wanna

keep it wild, not make it look like a

888

subdivision, 'cause that's just not.

889

Brian Searl: Probably a good idea.

890

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah.

891

Yeah.

892

So to have the kind of wild feel

like you have these tents that just,

893

that popped onto the middle of the

wilderness, the look we're going for.

894

But we keep it clean.

895

Yeah.

896

We maintain it.

897

And also we have as one of the emails

you guys sent to asking about the

898

check in and the checkout days.

899

Yeah.

900

We do that for two reasons.

901

One is operational the cleaning crew.

902

We have two cleaning crews.

903

They actually drive in

from from Metro Atlanta.

904

Not Atlanta Central, but

somewhere in the area.

905

And they have to make a living.

906

They're not gonna come for

just one unit, two units.

907

So we consolidate check-ins to three days.

908

It also helps the guests because we

don't have people on the property

909

blowing the deck, vacuum cleaners.

910

It's very quiet.

911

Yeah.

912

So it's like a show, the show starts

and the show ends, and then we.

913

Brian Searl: It's a good way to put it.

914

Sangeetha Ramkumar: To get it

ready for the next, the next show.

915

So that's how we operate and

it works out great for us.

916

We get everything done and

there's nobody on the property.

917

Some guests do stay over.

918

We just let 'em know, Hey,

we're gonna have our crews on

919

site getting but's still rare.

920

It happens.

921

It's happened three times and

in three, almost three years.

922

So yeah, is huge.

923

Sandy Ellingson: I'm interested

how much personal hospitality

924

is involved in what you do?

925

How much interaction do you

have with your guests or your

926

staff have with your guests?

927

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Very little.

928

We, if we're on sites, we meet them,

but to be honest, most of our guests,

929

they're like, if you tell 'em, Hey,

do you want us to show you the tent?

930

They're like, we got it.

931

Some of them wanna meet

us, some of them don't.

932

But you feel it's very

personal in different ways.

933

There's, I write a handwritten

note to all the guests.

934

We need them a little gift.

935

So there's different ways of doing luxury.

936

It's not just shoving people in

your face with the whole kind

937

of master servant type model.

938

That's very old school luxury.

939

So we don't do that.

940

We feel very taken care of and our guests

love it, and they're just left alone.

941

So I say it's a great place

to go have an affair 'cause

942

no one's gonna know, no one's.

943

They wanna hide people

that, don't want paparazzi.

944

We just.

945

Brian Searl: There's no Coldplay

playing next door or anything, or.

946

Sangeetha Ramkumar: What is it?

947

Brian Searl: There's no

Coldplay playing next door for.

948

Sangeetha Ramkumar: No, it, yeah.

949

Unless you count the deer across

the mountain, just keepers.

950

Brian Searl: It is interesting.

951

Go ahead.

952

Please finish.

953

I'm sorry, go ahead.

954

Sangeetha Ramkumar: No, I said

it's very private, so yeah, we

955

don't really the guests interact

through what we created for them.

956

Not so much we, in their face.

957

Brian Searl: What you're saying I

think is so foundationally important

958

to just understanding, like we

all talk about experiences and

959

that's obviously very important.

960

We all talk about the type of

units and that's very important.

961

We talk about the landscaping and

the design, but just that piece of,

962

I think there's often a mindset.

963

Between a lot of the operators that

like, I wanna be friendly, I wanna

964

meet the guests, I wanna be personal.

965

And that for sure helps.

966

And that is for sure a benefit

and things that many people will

967

remember and write about reviews.

968

But I think it's worth remembering

sometimes that there are certain

969

people who like it certain ways

in certain people who like it.

970

Other ways.

971

Like me, I went to I, I stayed in

this old castle in Ireland a couple

972

weeks ago and it was an Airbnb and

we ended up being the only people in

973

the, like it was just a tower, right?

974

Like I wanted one that was really old

and looked like a castle inside versus

975

a, the queen's esate or something.

976

So I wanted to know, I was in a castle

inside and outside, and so it was an

977

Airbnb, but and we had the note from the

guest and or from the host who was there.

978

And there's four rooms in this tower

and we're all the way in the top

979

and we're the only people there.

980

And it was like, just let me know.

981

I'm happy to come out and meet you.

982

You can play with the dogs

and all that kind of stuff.

983

And I like, I thought about it for we

only stayed there one night I really

984

like to meet this woman, but like also.

985

It feels like we're just alone in

this castle, and it's just really

986

cool to just be alone in this castle.

987

If there had been other guests there,

maybe I would've met her and I don't.

988

So I went between both things and

we never ended up meeting her.

989

But it's just interesting that

push and pull between like, how

990

both things can turn out to great

experiences for different people.

991

Sangeetha Ramkumar: Yeah.

992

It's just wasn't sustainable for us.

993

We're not a regular hotel.

994

It's like going back to the show

example, you, the actors don't

995

greet to you before the show starts.

996

You may get to meet them, maybe,

or maybe not, but then you

997

leave and you have a great time.

998

We haven't really heard

any feedback from a guest.

999

They all love it.

00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,390

They, it's also the details.

00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,230

We really pour over the details

and that's how you show you care.

00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:48,940

Brian Searl: Yeah.

00:44:48,945 --> 00:44:49,495

Sangeetha Ramkumar: It's very clean.

00:44:49,795 --> 00:44:50,605

It's spotless.

00:44:50,605 --> 00:44:55,375

My husband is, grew up in Germany

and is just so obsessed with

00:44:55,375 --> 00:44:58,890

being very clean that the, he's

trained the crews really well.

00:44:58,950 --> 00:45:00,420

So they all have the little headlamps.

00:45:01,045 --> 00:45:04,145

Which I know we're a bit obsessive

about that, but it helps, it shows.

00:45:04,275 --> 00:45:06,715

And we're, sometimes things do get missed.

00:45:06,715 --> 00:45:09,095

That is a human condition,

but we try not to.

00:45:10,115 --> 00:45:11,315

Brian Searl: Yeah, but it's

that, it, you're right.

00:45:11,315 --> 00:45:11,975

It's that care.

00:45:11,975 --> 00:45:13,265

It's that attention to detail.

00:45:13,265 --> 00:45:15,915

It was like there's another

place and I just keep bringing up

00:45:15,915 --> 00:45:18,285

Ireland, but there's another place

'cause it fits the conversation.

00:45:18,675 --> 00:45:23,445

We stayed in a little cabin alongside the

river and it was really well thought of.

00:45:23,445 --> 00:45:24,585

They had all the instructions.

00:45:24,585 --> 00:45:27,405

They told us how to use the hot

tub outside and all the things and

00:45:27,915 --> 00:45:31,125

how to operate the automatic blinds

that went up over the windows.

00:45:31,125 --> 00:45:33,525

But the one thing they didn't, and I

gave 'em feedback, but the one thing

00:45:33,525 --> 00:45:36,255

they didn't is you went in the shower

and there's like a battery operated,

00:45:36,255 --> 00:45:38,145

like water, electric water heater thing.

00:45:38,625 --> 00:45:40,965

And to turn on the shower,

there's a chain outside.

00:45:41,265 --> 00:45:42,105

There's no dial.

00:45:42,525 --> 00:45:45,165

And so it took me like probably

a minute and a half and I'm like,

00:45:45,195 --> 00:45:46,575

oh, it's gotta be this chain.

00:45:46,575 --> 00:45:48,195

And I just pulled it

and the water came on.

00:45:48,195 --> 00:45:51,415

But having that kind of instruction

there but those little things.

00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,030

The attention to detail and

everything else really can give you

00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:58,270

that same guided host experience

if you put yourself in their shoes.

00:45:59,260 --> 00:45:59,410

Sandy Ellingson: Yeah.

00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,920

And I really love what you said

about how you don't necessarily

00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,040

go out and greet your guests

and meet 'em, but you're right.

00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,910

Handwriting a note or

you're, leaving them a gift.

00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:14,310

And it reminded me of my travel

years before I got into the outdoor

00:46:14,310 --> 00:46:18,030

hospitality glamping side of things,

because I was blessed to be able to

00:46:18,030 --> 00:46:21,570

travel international, and there were

a lot of hotels that we would go into

00:46:21,870 --> 00:46:24,060

where they did similar things, right?

00:46:24,110 --> 00:46:26,375

They made me feel cared for and known.

00:46:27,260 --> 00:46:30,890

And I always say the difference

between a hotel and a campground

00:46:30,890 --> 00:46:35,360

is I'll walk into a hotel and that

guest agent has no clue who I am.

00:46:35,390 --> 00:46:39,200

Even if I'm coming and going every

single week there, they may never know.

00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,670

They don't ask me my name.

00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:43,880

I can't go across the hall

and ask for sugar, right?

00:46:44,180 --> 00:46:47,450

There's no, there's not

the community in a hotel.

00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,480

There is in the campground where

you feel like you're all friends

00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,800

whether you've ever met or not.

00:46:53,010 --> 00:46:55,290

Brian Searl: But I think you should

try to build a community in a hotel.

00:46:55,290 --> 00:46:57,150

Sandy, you would be a

great person for that.

00:46:57,540 --> 00:46:57,570

I

00:46:57,570 --> 00:46:58,140

Sandy Ellingson: would love it.

00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:58,625

I would love it.

00:46:58,705 --> 00:47:01,050

Brian Searl: I think should start

a TikTok channel on knocking on

00:47:01,050 --> 00:47:02,400

people's doors and asking for sugar.

00:47:02,730 --> 00:47:02,940

Hannah Terry: Listen.

00:47:02,940 --> 00:47:03,625

Brian Searl: I bet that would go viral.

00:47:03,955 --> 00:47:06,090

Sandy Ellingson: There was

actually a video of me that

00:47:06,090 --> 00:47:07,920

went viral many years ago.

00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:13,020

I was going to a conference, I was getting

on, I was on a Delta airplane and we

00:47:13,020 --> 00:47:18,630

were getting ready to take off out of

Atlanta to travel to somewhere in Arizona.

00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:23,340

I don't remember where the conference was,

but I kind recognized a lot of my peeps.

00:47:23,390 --> 00:47:24,995

I thought I knew who they were.

00:47:25,205 --> 00:47:29,375

So before we took off, I stood

up and I said, okay, everybody

00:47:29,375 --> 00:47:32,435

who's on this plane's going to

the conference, raise your hand.

00:47:32,825 --> 00:47:35,105

And it was like two thirds of

the plane raise their hands.

00:47:35,105 --> 00:47:36,155

And I said, okay.

00:47:36,725 --> 00:47:38,735

I am the fun coordinator.

00:47:38,735 --> 00:47:43,415

Where are we meeting after we check in

and somebody was recording me because they

00:47:43,415 --> 00:47:47,015

thought that I was about, when I stood

up, they were worried about what was gonna

00:47:47,135 --> 00:47:49,295

happen and they were like recording me.

00:47:49,355 --> 00:47:52,535

And it literally, I bet it

had a hundred thousand views.

00:47:52,535 --> 00:47:57,065

Now most of it was employees of this

organization, but hey, back then a

00:47:57,065 --> 00:47:58,355

hundred thousand views was a lot.

00:47:58,505 --> 00:48:00,595

So I would be the right person, Brian.

00:48:01,415 --> 00:48:02,435

Brian Searl: All right, I wanna see that.

00:48:02,435 --> 00:48:03,945

Then we're gonna we'll make that happen.

00:48:03,945 --> 00:48:05,265

We'll sit down at OHI

and we'll talk about it.

00:48:06,205 --> 00:48:07,255

We have a couple minutes left.

00:48:07,255 --> 00:48:11,295

Hannah I wanna get back to your, obviously

the goat yoga question, but tell us about

00:48:11,295 --> 00:48:14,085

some of the amenities and experiences that

people can do when they stay with you.

00:48:14,925 --> 00:48:18,705

Hannah Terry: Okay, so four and a

half years ago I took on my first

00:48:18,705 --> 00:48:20,655

two goats, custard and mustard.

00:48:21,945 --> 00:48:24,735

And that was just because I wanted goats.

00:48:25,095 --> 00:48:27,285

Not that I thought of

what we could do goats.

00:48:27,385 --> 00:48:30,225

And then I just started

doing some goat walking.

00:48:30,615 --> 00:48:33,915

It's just small scale, just a

few people, whoever was staying.

00:48:33,915 --> 00:48:38,135

And then I made a Facebook group and we

did bookings through the Facebook page.

00:48:38,945 --> 00:48:41,555

And then having goats, it

gets a little bit addictive.

00:48:41,555 --> 00:48:44,825

So I've got two more the next

year, two more the next year,

00:48:44,825 --> 00:48:47,195

and now I have a herd of 10 guys.

00:48:47,195 --> 00:48:49,985

Brian Searl: Do they all still rhyme with

custard and mustard or did you lose that.

00:48:50,420 --> 00:48:51,370

Hannah Terry: Had to pause it.

00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:52,290

Brian Searl: Okay.

00:48:54,890 --> 00:48:56,765

Hannah Terry: Biscoff and

Banoffee and things like

00:48:56,945 --> 00:48:58,325

Milkshake and Latte, that's all.

00:48:58,565 --> 00:48:59,370

Yeah, their names.

00:48:59,990 --> 00:49:03,790

Yeah, so it just, then just more

goats and then started to get a

00:49:03,790 --> 00:49:05,770

bit busier with the goat walking.

00:49:05,770 --> 00:49:07,390

That became quite popular.

00:49:07,810 --> 00:49:11,010

And yeah, and then we've just been doing

that for the past four and a half years.

00:49:11,010 --> 00:49:14,920

But a couple years ago I started doing

Qigong with the goats and so many

00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:16,450

people don't know what Qigong is.

00:49:16,510 --> 00:49:18,065

You say Tai Chi people have an idea.

00:49:18,965 --> 00:49:21,935

I was doing Qigong in a forest

with my goats and they were.

00:49:22,155 --> 00:49:23,685

Brian Searl: Wait, you gotta tell

us what, you gotta tell us what

00:49:23,685 --> 00:49:24,645

that is 'cause we don't know.

00:49:25,275 --> 00:49:29,180

Hannah Terry: Yeah, it's similar

to Tai Chi and Tai Chi's more like

00:49:29,180 --> 00:49:30,980

you're working with an opponent.

00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,430

But Qigong it's, yeah, it's not like that.

00:49:34,430 --> 00:49:36,895

There's three and a half different

thousand types of Qigong, so

00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:39,830

it's hard to explain it, but

it's working with energy, okay.

00:49:39,830 --> 00:49:41,360

If you like, feel for any

00:49:41,365 --> 00:49:42,780

Brian Searl: Like Reiki

or something like that or

00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:43,860

Hannah Terry: What's that?

00:49:43,860 --> 00:49:44,340

Brian Searl: Reiki?

00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,320

Hannah Terry: Yeah, it's

all Chi life force energy.

00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:48,340

Oh yeah.

00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:49,330

All the same thing.

00:49:49,380 --> 00:49:52,440

But it's almost like harvesting that

energy and it really makes everything

00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:53,730

fly in the body and I love it.

00:49:53,730 --> 00:49:54,540

And it's really good.

00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,220

Health wise, I found it really good.

00:49:56,730 --> 00:50:00,570

So that's what I began to do and

then offered Qigong with goats and

00:50:00,570 --> 00:50:01,975

nobody really knows what Qigong is.

00:50:02,915 --> 00:50:06,480

So anyway, I then did yoga with

goats and this year is the first

00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:07,860

year that it's taken off more.

00:50:08,595 --> 00:50:08,895

Yeah.

00:50:09,045 --> 00:50:09,165

Brian Searl: Okay.

00:50:09,265 --> 00:50:12,385

Hannah Terry: Some classes I've had,

like last weekend I had 11 people

00:50:12,385 --> 00:50:14,215

in one and 10 people on Saturday.

00:50:14,485 --> 00:50:16,105

And then the weekend I had two people.

00:50:16,105 --> 00:50:17,745

So it's been a bit up and down.

00:50:18,025 --> 00:50:20,805

But it's definitely been a

lot popular this year and I've

00:50:20,805 --> 00:50:22,485

found the thing I really enjoy.

00:50:22,995 --> 00:50:25,665

The goat walking went a bit quiet

this year, which is a shame 'cause

00:50:25,665 --> 00:50:29,235

I had some volunteers that have been

with me for a year and I thought I'd

00:50:29,235 --> 00:50:32,535

be able to give him some goat walks

and it was just so quiet this year.

00:50:33,385 --> 00:50:35,965

I don't know why, but it

just, they weren't coming in.

00:50:36,075 --> 00:50:41,085

We've had a few, we had two today which

is great and we've got some on Sunday.

00:50:41,505 --> 00:50:45,195

But yeah, the goat yoga, I've

definitely found my thing.

00:50:45,195 --> 00:50:48,165

But what's really interesting

is the people who come to stay

00:50:49,065 --> 00:50:54,435

camping or glamping are not the

people that book the experiences.

00:50:54,705 --> 00:51:01,290

It's 90% of people outside and, and

I would like more people to come

00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:03,030

and want to do the experiences.

00:51:03,630 --> 00:51:04,980

But I don't know why that is.

00:51:04,980 --> 00:51:08,070

It just doesn't seem to work

out that way for some reason.

00:51:08,170 --> 00:51:10,750

Brian Searl: It's probably something

to do with it, just the way you're

00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,570

marketing yourself, not that you're

marketing yourself wrong, but that

00:51:13,570 --> 00:51:16,870

you just need to do a better job of

tying the story together and reaching

00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:19,960

the, 'cause there are people out

there who are crossovers, right?

00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,810

And there are people who would do goat

yoga that you can convert to people who

00:51:22,810 --> 00:51:25,990

would stay and people who would stay,

who would be like I guess I'll try that.

00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:26,860

And then they might love it.

00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:28,540

Hannah Terry: Yeah.

00:51:29,470 --> 00:51:33,520

It's, I still get told that even

local people say in the next town,

00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,760

10 miles away and they'll say, I

didn't even know you were here.

00:51:37,330 --> 00:51:37,540

Brian Searl: Yes.

00:51:37,865 --> 00:51:38,745

Hannah Terry: I get a lot of that.

00:51:38,945 --> 00:51:41,950

I get, and so many people do

say that and Get Your Guide.

00:51:41,950 --> 00:51:45,790

I've had to use recently for the goat

yoga, but they take 30%, don't they?

00:51:45,790 --> 00:51:46,065

It's a lot.

00:51:46,405 --> 00:51:47,035

Brian Searl: You can do.

00:51:47,035 --> 00:51:47,275

Yeah.

00:51:47,345 --> 00:51:51,845

30% of 30% of something in your pocket is

still better than nothing in your pocket.

00:51:51,845 --> 00:51:51,995

Hannah Terry: Yeah, I know.

00:51:52,310 --> 00:51:52,550

I know.

00:51:52,595 --> 00:51:55,265

Brian Searl: So you shouldn't

rely on them forever, but yeah.

00:51:55,265 --> 00:51:57,905

But that's like you could do the

best marketing in the entire world.

00:51:57,905 --> 00:51:58,535

I remember that.

00:51:58,835 --> 00:51:59,855

Something stuck out to me.

00:51:59,855 --> 00:52:02,225

There's like a, there's

Twin Falls KOA in Idaho.

00:52:02,225 --> 00:52:06,515

I used to work with the former owners

there, Oscar and Kim Kanza, and years

00:52:06,515 --> 00:52:09,335

00:52:09,635 --> 00:52:13,325

We were doing videos of Oscar around

at different attractions and stuff.

00:52:13,325 --> 00:52:16,655

And one of the things he said to me was

like, we've been here for 50 years across,

00:52:16,655 --> 00:52:21,545

my dad owned it before me, and still

people in the town, five minutes down

00:52:21,545 --> 00:52:22,745

the street have no idea that we're here.

00:52:22,745 --> 00:52:25,565

And he was right off the highway

with a big, huge yellow KOA sign.

00:52:25,565 --> 00:52:28,295

And yeah, like the marketing helps,

but you're always gonna have that new

00:52:28,295 --> 00:52:31,235

audience that you can reach if you

think about ways to tell the story, and.

00:52:32,195 --> 00:52:34,565

Hannah Terry: Yeah, there's something

definitely out, I'm not doing quite

00:52:34,565 --> 00:52:37,640

right because there's a bigger

commercial one for goat walking.

00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:40,515

Who's, I don't know, about

25 miles away from here.

00:52:41,415 --> 00:52:44,560

And I think they, they get a decent

amount of people in, but they're

00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,515

offering like a half an hour experience

and we offer an hour and a half.

00:52:47,695 --> 00:52:51,255

And it's, it is got really personal

'cause they're our pets and and people

00:52:51,255 --> 00:52:53,325

who come, they just, they love it.

00:52:53,325 --> 00:52:53,355

They love it.

00:52:53,465 --> 00:52:55,295

So I know we are offering real quality.

00:52:55,745 --> 00:52:59,375

But of course they'd bigger phone that

have lots of other stuff going on as well.

00:52:59,375 --> 00:53:01,055

It's just half an hour goat walks.

00:53:01,165 --> 00:53:02,035

Yeah, I don't know.

00:53:02,035 --> 00:53:04,675

There's something maybe in

marketing that's not so good.

00:53:04,700 --> 00:53:05,100

I dunno.

00:53:05,100 --> 00:53:05,380

Brian Searl: Try that.

00:53:05,385 --> 00:53:10,035

Try the airport, raise your prices by 30%

and put yourself on Airbnb experiences or

00:53:10,035 --> 00:53:11,700

whatever and see if it works out for you.

00:53:11,700 --> 00:53:13,960

Hannah Terry: Yeah I'm on the

goat walking and Get Your Guide.

00:53:14,270 --> 00:53:17,100

Yeah, I do that.

00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:18,940

Yeah, I'm on goat walking Airbnb.

00:53:18,965 --> 00:53:20,405

I get some goat walks come through.

00:53:20,515 --> 00:53:21,425