Host Brian Searl kicked off the first Guest Experience episode of 2026 for MC Fireside Chats, welcoming a panel that bridged the gap between North American and United Kingdom outdoor hospitality markets. Joining the recurring panel were Zach Stoltenberg, Associate Principal of Architecture at LJA, and Jeremy Johnson, Owner of Camp Kona Hills in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Special guests included Charlotte Cleveley, Owner of The Apple Farm Glamping in the UK, and Kate Morel, CEO of Creative Hosts and a renowned industry consultant. The discussion began with a forward-looking approach to the new year, despite some recurring guests being absent due to the Tampa RV show.

The conversation immediately delved into a debate sparked by an AI-generated report regarding land use economics. Brian Searl posited a scenario comparing the Average Daily Rate (ADR) of a single luxury RV site against splitting that same footprint into three smaller Sprinter van sites. The theoretical data suggested the van sites might yield higher revenue with less infrastructure. Zach Stoltenberg countered this by emphasizing the "guest type" factor, noting that luxury RV owners are willing to pay premium rates for high-end amenities, whereas the "Vanlife" demographic is often budget-conscious and prefers boondocking or public lands to paid accommodation.

Jeremy Johnson offered a counterpoint from the operational trenches of Northern Michigan. He noted that while Western US campers might have access to BLM land, the Midwest lacks those free options, driving demand for affordable, basic campsites. Johnson argued that there is a massive, underserved market of non-RV owners—tent campers, car campers, and van lifers—who are being priced out of luxury developments. He highlighted that his $45/night basic sites are booking months in advance, suggesting that maximizing revenue isn't always about luxury upgrades but can also come from volume in the "middle market."

The discussion shifted toward the evolution of glamping, particularly the differences between the US and UK markets. Zach Stoltenberg noted that while primitive glamping (basic tents in backyards) launched the industry, the current US market demands ensuite bathrooms and resort-style amenities to command high ADRs. He explained that operators can no longer rely on novelty; they must provide a complete hospitality experience.

Special guest Charlotte Cleveley provided insight into the mature UK market. She described her property, The Apple Farm Glamping, as a working farm that leans into the "agritourism" model. Unlike the trend toward 5G and high-tech amenities, her guests specifically seek a disconnection from modern life and a reconnection with farming roots. She emphasized that because the UK market is saturated, the "experience" (such as farm tours, animal interactions, and local produce) is the differentiator, not just the accommodation structure itself.

Kate Morel expanded on the UK perspective, suggesting that the UK is often ahead of the US regarding "immersive" hospitality. She argued against the "cookie-cutter" approach to glamping, noting that placing identical units side-by-side only works if the view is spectacular. Morel advocated for "wild swimming," forest therapy, and land art as the next frontier for guest engagement. She cautioned that as the market matures, simply putting heads in beds is insufficient; operators must curate specific emotional connections with the land.

The group also tackled the economics of "add-ons" as a vital revenue stream. Zach Stoltenberg shared anecdotes about RV parks increasing profitability by bundling firewood or offering premium experiences like floating saunas. The panel agreed that while accommodation covers the overhead, ancillary revenue—from farm shop produce to guided experiences—often drives the true profit margin. However, a debate ensued regarding the practicality of wood-fired amenities versus the convenience of propane, highlighting the tension between authentic rustic experiences and guest convenience.

Towards the end of the episode, the conversation turned to design trends for 2026. Jeremy Johnson expressed interest in "folk schools" and crafting workshops as a way to utilize his property during shoulder seasons. Charlotte mentioned her plans to install a "swim pond" to tap into the wild swimming trend. This highlighted a global shift away from purely structural investments (like bigger clubhouses) toward nature-based amenities that align with wellness trends.

The episode concluded with the group's traditional "round-robin" question segment. The guests shared their personal travel aspirations, with Jeremy planning visits to architecturally unique Airbnbs for inspiration, and Zach reflecting on his accidental but rewarding journey into outdoor hospitality architecture. The segment underscored that even industry professionals are constantly seeking inspiration from other sectors of travel to bring back to their own businesses.

Brian Searl wrapped up the hour by pointing toward the future of data in the industry, teasing upcoming reports from Insider Perks that will analyze booking windows and revenue trends. The show set a tone for 2026 that prioritizes data-driven decisions while maintaining the soul of outdoor hospitality—connection with nature and unique guest experiences.

Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground, excited

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to be back here for our first episode

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Got a lot of interesting things to talk

about today that I'm excited about.

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We have a couple of great special

guests, Kate Morel and Charlotte

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Cleveley—did I pronounce that right?

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Charlotte Cleavely: Almost.

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Cleveley.

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Brian Searl: Cleveley.

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Okay.

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All right.

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That's actually easier to say

than Cleveley, so I'm good.

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All right, Cleveley from

Apple Farm Glamping.

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We're going to talk to them about

their different business operations

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and things they have going on.

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Then we have two recurring guests who

will introduce themselves shortly.

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Everybody can, Zach and

Jeremy, welcome back guys.

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We have a couple of people missing

today down at the Tampa RV show and

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Scott Foos is just traveling for work.

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But we'll have a good show.

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We'll talk about what's coming up in

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we have on deck to let's go around

and introduce ourselves briefly.

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Zach, you want to start?

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Zach Stoltenberg: Sure.

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Zach Stoltenberg.

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I'm the associate principal

for architecture for LJA.

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We're a multidisciplinary design firm

specializing in outdoor hospitality.

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So we help people build glamping

resorts, campgrounds, luxury RV parks,

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boutique hotels, experiential stays.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Thanks for being here, Zach.

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I have a question for you and Jeremy

when we're done introducing everybody

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that might be interesting for you

guys to answer back and forth.

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Jeremy, go ahead.

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Jeremy Johnson: Yeah.

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Hey everybody, my name's Jeremy.

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I own Camp Kona Hills Campground

in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

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It is currently 15 degrees with

a wind chill of negative 17 here.

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So we are not open at the moment,

but hoping better weather comes soon.

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Brian Searl: I think it'll get there.

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Somebody was telling me, I think Mark

Koep was telling me earlier today

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that it's 50 degrees in Colorado,

which I know is weird for us and me

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and the Canada and the UK people too.

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It's not really 50 degrees Celsius, but

he said it's unusually warm in Wyoming.

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They've seen some RVs traveling

around, so that's interesting.

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Jeremy Johnson: We do have snow.

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So for those people that are looking

for winter recreation, it's here.

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There's about, we've had

almost 150 inches so far.

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Brian Searl: Nice.

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Okay.

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have Lake Louise by us for

skiing, so I'm not a skier, but my

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girlfriend is and other people are.

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So you'd have to convince

her to leave that behind.

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They've been having a good year,

day for powder this year, so.

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Charlotte, please introduce yourself.

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Charlotte Cleavely: Hi

guys, I'm Charlotte.

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I'm the owner of The Apple

Farm Glamping and Camping.

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We are Stratford-upon-Avon in the UK.

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So yeah, we've been running 10 years now.

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We are a working farm, so

that was how we started.

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And we started off with

bell tent glamping.

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We then added in your traditional

camping and we just now

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aiming to go all year round.

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So yeah, we're normally shut at

this time of year because eight

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o'clock at night and it's pitch

black not the greatest of weather.

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But we just put two shepherd huts

in, so we're now looking to go

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all year round with those as well.

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Brian Searl: Okay.

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Awesome.

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Thanks for being here, Charlotte.

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Excited to learn more about your property.

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Kate?

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Kate Morel: Hi there, Brian.

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Thank you for inviting me again.

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I started in 2002 running a formal bed and

breakfast and put a fancy tent up in our

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front paddock for friends and families.

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And we got laughed at because we put

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and rugs and all the rest of it.

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But fast forward to 2010, I helped

launch one of the world's first

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glamping agencies called Unearthed.

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Then I left that and became

an independent consultant.

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So I help outdoor hospitality companies

and sites to get their business model

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before we help launch new sites as well.

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And I started a company called

Creative Hosts, imports all of my

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woods together, but it also offers a

membership guide for people as well.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Thanks for being here, Kate.

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So Kate told me I had to stay on track

today before we started the show.

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She's like, "You gotta talk

about guest experience.

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You can't get off track,

Brian, like I always do."

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So let me throw out this question to,

I'm interested Zach and Jeremy to hear

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your thoughts and obviously Charlotte

and Kate, you can weigh in too.

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We've been digging into a lot of

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We're going to do some industry

reports with Insider Perks on

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some really interesting data.

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And some, we're going to bring back

our reports from Modern Campground

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to MC Hospitality Highlights.

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The first one is going to be looking at

the booking window and stuff like that.

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But I have this AI agent that posts

for me on LinkedIn for Outwired,

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the other podcast that I do.

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And it posted this really interesting of

it's really interesting because I don't

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think about it—but it posted this really

interesting take on RV sites, where it

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compared the ADR that you would get from

a luxury premium rig, like a 30, 40,

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whatever foot with slide outs, premium

patio, furniture, all that kind of stuff,

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versus the ADR you get from taking that

same amount of land and splitting it

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into two or three Sprinter van sites.

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And it was interesting to me because the

Sprinter van sites at $45 a night—was

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what it made up in the article, don't

know if that's realistic depending on your

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area of the country—three of those were

more than the one pull-through, and less

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hassle, and less site development, less

concrete, less patio, less whatever else.

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So that's—I'm curious with the

architecture guy and Jeremy, the guy

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who's building things that are not for

the big huge rigs, think of this stuff.

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Zach Stoltenberg: I would

say, I've done all of those.

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I think the thing that AI misses guest.

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And specifically guest type.

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The owner of that 42-foot Prevost, they're

willing to spend $100, $150 a night.

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But they want premium

accommodations with that.

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They want nice amenities, they

want clean bathrooms, nice showers,

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grounds keeping, maintenance.

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They want to be around other

like-minded people with similar

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scale and quality of rigs.

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so you can generate revenue off

of that, but it's also a much more

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expensive build because it's not just

the site, it's everything else about

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that resort that's going to attract

that particular customer demographic.

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One of the things that we've always

struggled with in looking at the Vanlifers

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is it's a very different customer base.

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to be really blunt with it, they're cheap.

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The reason somebody buys a

Sprinter van is that they don't

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want to have to pay to play in

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space.

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They don't like paying for

overnight accommodations.

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will boondock, they will find

public lands, places that

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they can park for the night.

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It's a go-anywhere type

of rig and vehicle.

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And so really all you're going to

maybe capture out of a Vanlifer is

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someone who's already done that for

four or five days and they're like,

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"Okay, we're going to bite the bullet.

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We're going to spend for tonight because

I haven't showered in a week and I really

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want someplace that has a hot shower.

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We need to empty our tanks.

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So we've got to stop in someplace where we

can empty everything, refill all of that."

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But they're generally

not a multi-night stay.

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put that bigger tax on resources, utility

infrastructure, all that piece of it.

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And it's a low ADR in that.

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They're also a much smaller percentage,

although growing, of overall RVs.

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Those smaller rigs, they're

just not as common the bigger

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towables or the Class As.

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But I think the idea of valuing ADR

for land use area is something that

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comes up for me oftentimes when

we're talking with glamping clients.

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that's a very easy way if somebody

owns a campground and they've got

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60 or 70 RV sites, for them to wrap

their head around why they should

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be paying attention to glamping.

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Because that same RV site that they,

you know, a well-appointed one,

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nice, good high peak demand area,

$75 to $100 a night for that site.

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Explaining that on that same amount

property or even on an existing RV site

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itself, we could come in with a really

nice appointed glamping tent that rents

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for double, maybe triple what they're

getting for an RV spot right now.

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The other thing is demographics.

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We look, we believe all the numbers

that come out of reports like the KOA,

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million camping households in the US.

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A small fraction of them,

I think it's around 10, 12,

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maybe 15% actually own an RV.

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A majority of campers in the US

don't own an and they're looking

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for somewhere else to stay.

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So that's the other piece of that is

not only will a glamping site generate

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more revenue than an RV site, there's

a lot more people in that, there's

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more campers that are looking for

that type of a site or accommodation.

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Brian Searl: What do you think, Jeremy?

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Jeremy Johnson: Zach, on your last

point there, I definitely agree that

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there's a lot more people looking for

something that's not an RV site because

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the numbers speak for themselves, right?

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Like 10%, I think you said

10% of people own an RV.

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Zach Stoltenberg: I don't know

exactly where it's at, close to that.

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It's a small percentage

of overall campers.

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Jeremy Johnson: So I, Brian, I think

going back to your point, maybe it's

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not, or back to your original question,

maybe it's not just like Sprinter van

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people specifically, but it's that

other 90% whether they're Sprinter van

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people or truck campers or tent campers.

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I mean, Brian, I think my overall

opinion on this, because we've

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talked about it, but I do cater

to anybody except for RV people.

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Those are the only

people I don't cater to.

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Brian Searl: Which is why I was

fascinated to hear your opinion on this.

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Jeremy Johnson: Yeah.

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And I do charge $45 a night and it's

the middle of January in Northern

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Michigan where we have 150 inches of

snow and I've got bookings rolling

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in today for July and August.

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So like that demand is absolutely

there, at least in my area.

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Again to another one of Zach's points,

some of those people might do anything

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in their power to not camp at like a

pay place, especially if you're west

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of the Mississippi where you got BLM

land and you can boondock for free.

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in Michigan where we have lots of state

land, but that concept of BLM camping

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really doesn't exist where I'm at.

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And so like we end up just

being in an interesting place.

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And I remember when we first were getting

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I made a Reddit post on the Vanlife

subreddit about our campground opening.

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a lot of the Vanlife people, there

was about, say it was like 80/20.

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was a lot of positivity,

but it was only maybe 20%.

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And then the other 80% was people like

Zach was talking about where they were

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like, "Why would I ever pay to camp?

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I have a van that I can boondock in."

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But they've never visited Michigan

and they don't realize free

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BLM land doesn't exist here.

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So I think there's a location

element to it that matters a lot.

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That setup might not work in Oregon

or Wyoming or Nevada, but it will work

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in the Midwest and the East Coast in

particular, at least in the United States.

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And then the last thing I have

to say is can't stuff these

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things right next to each other.

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I don't know that it's a one-to-one

equation of one RV pad, get three

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Sprinter van or glamping sites because

those people want their privacy too.

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They don't want to be stuck

right next to each other.

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And completely agree with Zach.

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probably, I have 40 sites today that

are all tent, van, and car camping.

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But I'll probably take half of

those in the next one to two

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years and upgrade them to glamping

sites to realize that higher ADR.

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I'm at, again, $45 a night for a

basic camping site right now, but if

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I put a rustic off-grid cabin or yurt

or one of these upgraded experiences

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in there, at least in my market, I

can be anywhere between $150 to $200

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a night with something like that.

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Brian Searl: Yeah.

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I think there's all kinds of problems with

the social media post—but I think that's

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the idea is like behind we're putting

out on Outwired specifically is let's

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start a conversation, let's debate it.

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Let's see where that takes us.

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Maybe we're thinking of doing different

things and different conversations

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that we haven't had before.

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I do think it's interesting though that

since the pandemic—and you can correct

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me if I'm wrong here, Zach, cause you've

been involved in more of these builds

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than I have—but it feels like on the

outside that since the pandemic, we've

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been more, so heavily focused on luxury

in specifically the RV market—let's

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push aside glamping for a second—that

we've left behind some of those middle

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campers in a lot of the developments.

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Is that fair or are we just not hearing

about the middle market developments?

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Zach Stoltenberg: I think it's in direct

response to that guest experience piece.

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In the early days hospitality, RVers were

content with partial hookup sites amp

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service or—people, a lot of sites didn't

cater to anything that was more than that.

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And so there really was a, I don't

know, an acceptance of it until you

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started seeing some operators that

really started raising the bar.

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Upgrading to 50 amp service, upgrading

to larger sites that are further

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apart, incorporating electric vehicle

charging, really nice resort style pools.

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And especially in areas

that are saturated.

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You know, we know those parts of the

country, especially that, that southern

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band of the US, at least from my market,

they get basically a year-round season.

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You've got a lot of campgrounds, a lot of

RVers who are there, but the places that

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made those upgrades and those spends,

everybody wants to stay at the nicest,

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the newest, the latest, the greatest.

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So places that were making those

investments and raising that bar

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continued to be really strong.

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Over the last couple of years as the

market started to stabilize a little bit

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and we've seen some drops, the people

who are feeling that crunch are not

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those people that reinvested in their

properties and brought in new things.

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It's the people who are still sitting

on a property that they bought in

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1982 and haven't done a darn thing to.

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And they're not upgrading.

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So think really the biggest change

in that has been it's a direct

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response to guest experience, guest

feedback, that rising consumer demand.

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when glamping started, there were

folks pitching tents in their backyard

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putting it out for a hundred bucks

a night and they were getting it.

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And I'm glad they did because that was

laying the groundwork for this wonderful

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new emergence of this new industry.

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But today, that won't work.

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People want full facilities,

flush toilets, bathrooms.

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And so now what we're seeing is operators

who started with those more primitive

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models, they're now upgrading units.

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And new folks who are coming in, a

ground-up build, folks that we work with,

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they're not even trying the primitive

model because it's destined for failure.

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You can spend five grand put up

a tent, very primitive, nothing

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in it, that never rents out.

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Or you can spend 25 grand for much

higher level sort of accommodation,

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build a $65,000 bathhouse,

shower house, and get bookings.

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Or you can spend 150 grand on an

incredible tent that has bathrooms

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and everything in it that rents for

three times what those other ones

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do and books out a year in advance.

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And so I agree that there's been

change in the focus and definitely

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an overall raising of the bar, but

I think it's in direct response to

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guest feedback and people valuing

that experience and being willing to

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pay for having a better experience.

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Brian Searl: Yeah, I'm

completely with you on glamping.

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Like there's no debate in my mind there.

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I'm just wondering is there a ceiling

on the number of people who can afford

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$100 plus a night luxury RV sites?

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At some point.

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I'm not saying we're there yet, but is

there a point where it gets to that?

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And as these people keep developing

these, like they're better guest

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experience, but as Jeremy's proven,

you can design a park with better guest

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experience without luxury RV sites.

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Jeremy Johnson: don't know about

in the but in the US, I think we're

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got to be close to approaching that.

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know that like almost similar to when

things were quite uncertain in the

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US, think a lot of people are planning

to take more vacations that are more

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domestic, a little bit closer to home and

probably spend a little bit less money.

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I think there, there probably always

exists a certain level of demand for the

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luxury stuff, but I can say that least

on our end, we haven't seen a decrease

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in demand for our bare bones basic

sites because people are looking for it.

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And whether it's a monetary thing or not,

some people just want that experience.

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We're even getting inquiries from groups

like the Boy Scouts who are looking for a

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more rustic experience because the state

park 45 minutes away from us has upgraded

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their facilities so much that it's

too modern for these Boy Scout groups.

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They're like, "This

isn't camping anymore."

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So I think there's like an aesthetic

side of it too that people are

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probably, it's against some of the

modernization and maybe they don't want

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5G connectivity when they're camping.

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Brian Searl: I still remember

like we started, like I started

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Insider Perks by driving around

to different KOA campgrounds.

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We were doing videos back then.

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I still remember the Point South

KOA in Yemassee, South Carolina,

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was the only campground I ever

stayed at in the—and we were going

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to private at that point, right?

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We weren't going to state parks—the

only campground I stayed at where

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they let me build my own ground fire.

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And I still remember that.

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It was like 2012 or something.

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But that stuck out in my mind

because I like doing that.

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I can build a fire with a flint and

steel and I can do all that stuff, right?

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Jeremy Johnson: Yeah.

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We had, I mean, we've got, we had a lot

of people up here that were bringing

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their kids camping for the first time

and they wanted them to have that

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like very rustic remote experience.

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And I remember going to talk to

people as I do my like evening

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rounds and they're like, "Yeah, like

we're building their first campfire.

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They've never built a campfire before."

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And was pretty cool.

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Brian Searl: Kate, do you have any

knowledge of the Sprinter van market

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over in the UK or anything like that?

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How does that compare to glamping?

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Kate Morel: Campervans.

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Brian Searl: Caravans, but they're

still Sprinter vans, I think, right?

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Like I don't know.

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Kate Morel: so much.

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I work with some

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certification organizations, camping

and woodland champions, what have

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still—I gotta agree with Jeremy

there—there are a lot of people that

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really don't want all the bells that

come with full-on glamping sites.

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I think we're quite a

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little bit polarized in terms

people wanting flushing toilets and

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facilities and six or seven, maybe

even eight years ago, sites that

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didn't offer that started to suffer.

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yeah, there is something actually.

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Something people think it

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should be

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primitive, and people

think it should be luxury.

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So it's both ends of the market really.

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And yeah, but some people do not want

that full-on glamping experience.

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So I think for different places

that are at the development stage,

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it's—the UK is a lot smaller.

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All of our European

countries are a lot smaller.

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A country that I find a little bit

to work in when I'm outside of Europe

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is Australia, which is America.

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And the catchment area is bigger, I think,

and that varies quite a bit as well.

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Because the catchment

area is so much larger.

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Whereas here in the UK Europe,

people don't travel so far.

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The catchment area is much smaller.

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Anyway, it's, I think it's, I don't

know whether it's easier or harder to

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work out what your guest demographic

would be, what your ideal guest profile

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would be, and the level of accommodation

amenities and luxuries that you offer.

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I can't help there, Brian.

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I can give you no money

here on running off piece.

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Brian Searl: I don't know about that.

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Yeah, ask Zach how the tangents that I

can go off on sometimes that don't mean

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anything or have any value to anybody.

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think right, like the whole

world is debating over the,

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the word glamping means.

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I don't think that's ever going

to change, but let's for purposes

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of this show just define it as

outdoor accommodations of some kind.

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Do you feel like the UK is ahead

of—and I have a reason for asking

364

this—do you feel like the UK is ahead

of the rest of the European market?

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If we define glamping as

outdoor accommodations.

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Or do you think they're the same

or do you think they're behind?

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Charlotte Cleavely: Yeah, no, I think we

are a little bit, I don't know, just to

368

use the phrase "ahead" makes it sound like

we're beating everybody else at the game.

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I think

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it's more developed.

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So the market is more

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developed.

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France is more developed.

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And we've got Italy and Spain, Portugal

up there, and Greece that catching

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up in terms of saturation point.

376

We're at saturation point in UK and

maybe in France getting there as well.

377

But the rest of Europe is,

there's still opportunity.

378

In the UK actually, if you get your

business model it's a saturated market.

379

Brian Searl: Yeah, the reason I ask

is I was last year at the end of the

380

year, I was in Croatia for the Croatian

Camping Conference and then I went

381

to France for SETT in Montpellier.

382

And I've known Simon Neal

from Camp Map over there as a

383

regular guest on our podcast.

384

And what I discerned from all those

conversations that I had over there,

385

but also with Simon, is that glamping

in Europe is mostly a function

386

of glamping, like they don't have

independent glamping sites anymore.

387

There are some outliers for sure.

388

But most of the glamping properties,

which they're defined as like mobile

389

homes, really nice luxury cabins

for the most part, are attached to

390

caravan sites, camping sites in Europe.

391

And so that kind of was very interesting

to me because we've taken a different

392

approach as we've talked about here

on this show and other places where we

393

have standalone luxury glamping sites.

394

There are certainly lots of campgrounds

and RV parks in the United States that

395

have added glamping, but to many people, I

think you would maybe agree with me, Zach,

396

like that's a different target audience.

397

Right?

398

For the most part?

399

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, I think

they're different customer bases.

400

certainly, I think in the mixed model,

one of the great things about an existing

401

RV park or caravan park that bring in

people that don't own RVs, adding some

402

of those accommodations is a great

way to bring in additional revenue or

403

connect with a wider customer base.

404

But I think that that is still

in the accommodation model.

405

It's a place to stay, right?

406

I think the standalone glamping sites a

luxury RV park, that is the destination.

407

That is the appeal.

408

And that, that's going to be a higher ADR.

409

That's going to have that

bigger amenity spend.

410

A cabin at an RV park, may get,

or at a campground, you may get

411

$150, maybe up to $200 a night.

412

When we look some of most outstanding

properties, I just saw Forbes released

413

their top 10 list for, or Travel and

Leisure, one of them, end of the year

414

everybody does their top tens and

there was a top 10 list on there.

415

I think six of the ten properties

are over a thousand dollars a night.

416

So why can they do that?

417

It's because you're not

camping next to an RV.

418

These are unique

destination type locations.

419

These are extremely high end units.

420

These are short supply.

421

There's maybe 10, 15 units and

they're a quarter of a mile apart and

422

have privacy and incredible views.

423

And think that customer base that's

looking for that and willing to pay

424

for those top tier models, that's

completely different than somebody that

425

will rent three bed cabin at an RV park

that they can stand with their kids.

426

It may be like was discussed,

I want to build a campfire.

427

I want to do S'mores.

428

I want my kids to have some

of that camping experience.

429

My wife said she won't stay in a tent.

430

We don't own an RV.

431

And so one of the things I love about

working in outdoor hospitality is there is

432

no one answer and there's no wrong answer.

433

Everybody can do, you know,

whatever they think is best.

434

And as long as we're following

back to that guest experience and

435

creating something people want,

you're going to be successful.

436

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think you kind

of hit the nail on the head with

437

luxury and uniqueness because that

is what most of these properties

438

that I saw at least in Europe were.

439

They were luxury camping sites with...

440

there's a...

441

there's one in Croatia, Zach.

442

They called Aminess.

443

They have a couple different locations.

444

They have private pools on every RV site.

445

Never seen that before in my life, but we

should bring that to the US at some point.

446

Zach Stoltenberg: Pools, no.

447

I've done hot tubs.

448

Brian Searl: No, a private pool.

449

Like you stepped out of the—yeah,

it was like a 10-foot maybe

450

pool on every single RV site.

451

So that was interesting.

452

They were charging I think

like 300 bucks a night for it.

453

Euros.

454

Anyway, it was right by the coast though.

455

It was beautiful location.

456

But I think that you hit the nail

on the head because they have a lot

457

of, they call them mobile homes over

there, but they have a lot of the

458

luxury cabins that are really high end.

459

They're sandwiched close together

to each other inside the camping

460

sites, caravan parks, whatever Europe

calls But they're luxury, right?

461

They've got full service restaurants.

462

They've got water parks,

they've got multiple pools.

463

They've got, right?

464

And that's the difference I think

is that the people aren't just there

465

for that cabin next to an RV feel.

466

Would be my sense.

467

What do you think Charlotte,

of all this stuff?

468

Charlotte Cleavely: It's really

interesting listening to the perspectives.

469

Obviously there are vast differences to

the UK, but also a lot of similarity.

470

Listening in the conversation with

RVs versus Sprinter vans, which

471

you definitely went across to Kate.

472

And she said different types of people.

473

So we do, we call it

off-grid grass camping.

474

So we are, as I said, we're a

working farm and we really are

475

very much rustic, back to basics.

476

We don't do caravans mainly

because of the access.

477

So that was the reason we didn't.

478

And it interesting how that shaped

the type of campers that we get.

479

So we do your normal campers.

480

We will do campervans.

481

We do get like the

bigger campervans in not

482

motorhomes.

483

So we very much tend to be the type

of family that does want the campfire.

484

So each of our camping pitches has its

fire pit there ready for them to go.

485

We're very off-grid, we're very rustic.

486

So with the bell tents,

there's no electricity.

487

So I think it's about knowing who and

what you are as a site and what you

488

offer and making sure matches your

guest's expectations and then creating

489

the experience that goes round that.

490

A lot of our guests definitely come to

us because of our farming background.

491

So they're really

interested in the animals.

492

We've got a really good location three

miles outside Stratford-upon-Avon.

493

We're very central in the country.

494

So yeah, it's really interesting to see

differences, listen to the differences

495

that you guys have over there and then

thinking about, not a lot of that's

496

really that different over here too.

497

Yes, it's just slightly

different ways of doing it.

498

Or maybe I'm now running

off topic as well.

499

Brian Searl: No, it's impossible

to do that on this show.

500

Don't worry.

501

what's, what do you guys focus

on for guest experience there?

502

Charlotte Cleavely: As I said,

our main focus probably is the

503

fact that we are a working farm.

504

So the name gives it away, The Apple Farm.

505

It was originally a commercial fruit farm.

506

My dad, I lived in Australia for

507

14 years working in sales and marketing.

508

I came just over 10 years ago.

509

dad in his wisdom bought a derelict fruit

farm because my mom likes making jam.

510

So it was meant to be a hobby farm.

511

He doesn't want a derelict fruit farm.

512

We are also beef farmers.

513

So we very much enjoy the crossover with

hospitality of getting people into the

514

farming environment telling them all about

what farming is and then bringing that

515

back into the guest experience as well.

516

So we offer hampers, meats, etc.

517

from the farm.

518

We do our own apple juice.

519

We do farm tours.

520

We do farming experiences.

521

So that's really the

lines that we go down.

522

Brian Searl: What, what's one thing

you would like to do from a guest

523

experience standpoint that you

haven't been able to do so far?

524

Charlotte Cleavely: I would love to, we

would very much to have a micro dairy

525

site so we can produce small

volumes of milk, eggs, cheese, that

526

kind of stuff, really bring that

back into the guest experience.

527

Maybe even have a little

cafe on site and do the whole

528

circle of the guest experience.

529

Would love to do.

530

Brian Searl: You get that set up, I'll

come over and be a paying customer.

531

Like cause that's what I look for.

532

I when I travel and obviously there's

different, there's so many different

533

niches and buyer personas and demographics

and ideal customer profiles and

534

people who will do different things.

535

For me it's the unique experience.

536

And I'm willing to sacrifice

some of my comfort.

537

Like not a lot cause I'm

old and I have a bad back.

538

But I don't really have

a bad back, but I am old.

539

And so like when we were in Ireland

last at the end of last year, probably

540

September, something like that.

541

We were, like that's

all I was looking for.

542

Whether it was Airbnb or glamping

sites or it ended up being unique bed

543

and breakfasts cause that's all there

was when we were traveling along the

544

island around the edges for a while.

545

And we went to Northern

Ireland and regular Ireland.

546

But we were always looking

for something unique.

547

And so I was willing to trade

off some things like that.

548

Like I have bad eyesight.

549

like when I take my contacts

out at night, like I can't see

550

five feet in front of me, right?

551

It's all blurry.

552

I have had bad eyes since I was in

first grade, so I figure out how

553

to navigate it like some kind of

weird bat creature or something.

554

But anyway, so we stayed in a castle,

like little Airbnb castle with two rooms

555

and a nice old tower in Southern Ireland.

556

And I remember like the bathroom was

like down seven steps down the, we had

557

to go around down the thing and then open

the door and there was a latch on it.

558

It was completely pitch black and

you had to go in and it was plumbing.

559

But you had to figure it all out.

560

it's not that much of a thing to give up.

561

But the point that there are

trade-offs that people are being

562

willing to make, I think if you

can get a really unique experience.

563

And it doesn't have to be a castle

obviously, but something that

564

somebody put some thought and love

and care into to make it different.

565

Charlotte Cleavely: Yeah.

566

I think it's definitely, I think one of

you guys said earlier, gone are the days

567

where you can plonk an accommodation

whatever you tickles your fancy.

568

You can't just put an accommodation

down now and to fill it.

569

You've got to create the

experience that goes with that now.

570

And that's what will bring people back.

571

so much we would love to do.

572

But that's definitely where

our repeat customers come from.

573

They come, they came for what we

gave them, not necessarily the

574

fact that it was a bell tent.

575

It was about the experiences of all.

576

Brian Searl: With one caveat, you

can put 'em side by side if you

577

have a really good view, I think.

578

We saw that in Ireland, like if

you're right by the ocean or like

579

on the Aran Islands or in Croatia

and you can see the Mediterranean

580

Sea, then that's your experience.

581

Still not about the accommodations,

that holds true, but.

582

Charlotte Cleavely: Sorry, say that again?

583

Brian Searl: I said it's still

not about the accommodation.

584

It's about the view.

585

So it's like what you're saying holds

true, but that's the exception I

586

think where you can have that and not

focus so much on the traditional guest

587

experience, if you want to label it

like that, or what we're talking about.

588

Charlotte Cleavely: Yeah, I think so.

589

Comes with a built-in view.

590

Jeremy Johnson: That's one place

where I see the US being still very

591

much behind the UK Europe in general.

592

Like that uniqueness.

593

We're at a point, at least where I'm

at and what I see, I feel like we're

594

at a point where people are thinking

still that they can just put up like

595

glamping tent or now maybe more of

a dome or even the glass houses.

596

They're thinking, "Oh, I can just put

up a glass house and people will come.

597

It doesn't matter where I do it."

598

As soon as there's 15 glass houses in

one region, it loses that novelty, right?

599

And so then it becomes

more about the experience.

600

And I we're, at least from my

perspective, we're just starting to

601

get there where people, like Wolf

comes to mind with his farm project

602

down in Florida that he's working on.

603

We're just getting to that

farm camping/glamping mixture.

604

Like that's just happening here.

605

And then think about at least in region,

like a place like Viroqua, Wisconsin,

606

which is pretty much the organic

farming capital of the Midwest, which is

607

sounds like a very weird thing to say.

608

But the accommodate, like amazing

organic farms in the Driftless region,

609

amazing farm to table restaurants,

but then the accommodations

610

are like few and far between.

611

We brought our RV down there,

which it's not even an RV.

612

a truck camper with a fiberglass

shell and it's 24 feet long.

613

And we couldn't find a place camp for

the night with our 24-foot truck camper.

614

We actually had to rent an Airbnb

that was like privately owned

615

and not even part of a farm.

616

It was just like kind of a one-off RV.

617

Like we would have loved to stay at a

farm and we would have loved to find

618

a place where we didn't have to spend

500 bucks a night to rent an Airbnb

619

when we had a camping vehicle with us.

620

Zach Stoltenberg: I think we're

seeing some things like Harvest

621

Hosts is a good example, right?

622

That launched and it's partnering

with farms that are willing to allow

623

somebody with an RV to come and

stay on their night, stay a night

624

or two, and there's no cost to it.

625

just with the projects that we worked

on, even recent stuff that's in design.

626

I worked on probably five or six

different different properties where it

627

was incorporating that farm, building

out a farm experience and really

628

intertwining that with everything.

629

One of our sites that we did Texas, they

wanted to have goats and mini Highland

630

cows and and they wanted guests to be

able to interact with those animals.

631

So we literally have sites where you

have your site and there's fenced

632

on three sides, but the animals

can come right up into your site.

633

working on one down in Arkansas right

now is a functioning cattle ranch.

634

They're going to maintain 30

to 50 head of cattle on this.

635

And so we're looking at designing

barns and some mini barns and

636

bringing in some covered wagons.

637

And there's a restaurant on site

that they want to incorporate a whole

638

kind of farm to table experience

for guests where when you're eating

639

dinner that night, 90% of what you're

eating was grown on the property.

640

so I think there is a

focus starting in that.

641

The one thing I will say I think look at

UK versus US, I do think the UK really

642

led the charge in a lot of those things.

643

I think the US market is catching

up very quickly and in some

644

ways it's probably surpassed.

645

But I also think customers and

the demand, the guest experience

646

is very different in those two.

647

Brian Searl: I was looking up on my

phone here, we're doing a bunch of

648

pricing breakdowns and stuff we're

going to release for Insider Perks.

649

I was asking it for different

stats about glamping.

650

I was distracted and not paying attention.

651

says overall glamping from our data,

which we've got data from about

652

2,300 campgrounds and RV parks and

glamping sites in North America.

653

The median price is $145 a night.

654

The average is $159.75.

655

Says the average price for a

treehouse, which is arguably I

656

would say that's more unique, right?

657

$239.45.

658

A glamping cabin is $210.

659

A pod or capsule is $194.

660

A yurt is $142.

661

Vintage Airstream is $140.

662

Teepee is

663

$136.

664

Safari tents $135 and your bell is $118.

665

So I think that speaks to the amount of

like extra money you can get from putting

666

thought into something that and maybe, I

don't think treehouses will ever be not be

667

unique cause they're a lot harder to use.

668

But or harder to build.

669

that speaks to I think that what

we were talking the uniqueness.

670

Yeah, Zach?

671

Zach Stoltenberg: think another thing that

can't be ignored in this conversation, and

672

I want to hear Kate and Charlotte on this.

673

We can talk ADRs for revenue, but that

should be just one small piece of it.

674

One thing that I think a lot of the

operators that we worked with, a

675

lot of folks I'm friends with who

own resorts and operate resorts in

676

the US, one of the things that they

all do really well are add-ons.

677

Other things.

678

So I'm going to toss out his name

and I hope he's okay with it.

679

Matt Keller with Ramble.

680

Like he's got a beautiful property outside

of Atlanta and last year they built a

681

floating sauna unit on the property.

682

And he has beautiful sites.

683

He's got some treehouses,

he's got tree tents even.

684

Incredible accommodations.

685

But the floating sauna was an add-on and

he allows guests to book that separate.

686

So they're paying for their stay and

then they're also paying for a sauna

687

I think that can be done with some

F&B components, even with partnerships

688

off-site activities, excursions.

689

I've got clients that they partner with

a zipline course that's down the road or

690

an ATV jeep tour operator that, you know,

is nearby that will come and pick guests

691

up right at property and bring them out.

692

And there's revenue to be generated

in this business outside of just

693

the overnight accommodation.

694

the RV side, they've known

that for a long time.

695

When we work existing RV

parks that are doing a remodel

696

or expansion, a reposition.

697

That's one of my questions I

ask always of their manager.

698

go down the aisle of the store

and we'll say, "What do you

699

do the best within the store?

700

And top two revenue

generators for an RV park?"

701

Brian Searl: The first one

I'm sure you can guess.

702

Zach Stoltenberg: RV parts?

703

Brian Searl: No, we've all

meant, you mentioned it earlier.

704

Jeremy Johnson: Firewood.

705

Showers.

706

Zach Stoltenberg: You

can't charge for showers.

707

Brian Searl: Well you could.

708

Jeremy Johnson: Some people do.

709

Brian Searl: Wouldn't be a

good idea, but you could.

710

Zach Stoltenberg: Firewood is number one.

711

Jeremy Johnson: Firewood.

712

Brian Searl: Okay.

713

All right that makes sense.

714

All right.

715

Zach Stoltenberg: Firewood is

number one, ice cream is number two.

716

Jeremy Johnson: Okay.

717

I'm surprised coffee isn't number one.

718

Zach Stoltenberg: Again, I

think you can't charge for that.

719

I think stay at a place and they don't

have coffee sitting for me in the

720

morning, I'm never staying there again.

721

No, and like I had a conversation

with a manager and she said,

722

"Yeah, we sell a ton of firewood.

723

makes up most of our revenue sales."

724

And I said, me about

how you're selling it."

725

And she said, it's problem.

726

Like right now we hire high school

kids and they drive around in a

727

golf cart for three hours every

night and stop at every site and

728

see if they need any more firewood."

729

And they charged by default

everybody who stayed there.

730

They wouldn't, they nothing was included.

731

It was just, hey, if you want

firewood you have to buy it.

732

And I said, "How much do you

sell a bundle of firewood for?"

733

And I think it was seven dollars.

734

I said, "Here's what I want you to do.

735

Raise the cost of your nightly

rates by 10 bucks and include the

736

first bundle of firewood with it."

737

You're actually selling it for

more than what you're doing and

738

it's there and it's included.

739

So the transaction doesn't change.

740

It's that guest experience and

it's a perception of value.

741

If they've already got it, they're

going to start a campfire with it.

742

And when when the wood's burning and it's

going and as a parent, I've got four kids.

743

If my kids are all sitting around the

campfire and we throw the last piece of

744

wood on and I know it's only 6:30, I'm

going to go down to the store and buy

745

more because we've already got the fire

going and I don't want it to go out.

746

And so I think that's really, those

are the things from a guest experience

747

perspective that focus on when we're

working with a client or an owner,

748

those are the questions I ask because

the transaction doesn't have to change.

749

It's just the way that it's presented.

750

she looked back at me and she goes,

"So I don't have to pay two kids

751

to drive around in a golf cart on

their cell phones for three hours?"

752

And I said, It's going to be in

the site when they get there.

753

If they don't use it, sold it.

754

Like it's paid for."

755

And she goes, if they leave it somebody

else will take it back to their site."

756

"It'll be gone."

757

The duck on the June bug, pick those

sites clean as soon as somebody moves out.

758

And said, "Yeah, but who cares?

759

You already sold it.

760

You sold it for ten dollars."

761

Kate Morel: Yeah.

762

That's a bit of a contentious one

here with glamping We always, well

763

most places will include firewood,

kindling, firelighters as a starter pack.

764

I'm in a bit of an ongoing battle with

one of my clients who still insists on

765

locking all of his wood away from guests.

766

And having stayed on his site and suffered

freezing cold with my children around

767

one of the campfires, it was stacked

like two foot high with padlocked cages

768

and we sit within five feet of it.

769

It was like a bonfire not

a campfire to keep warm.

770

And we ended up having to go

to bed at about nine o'clock

771

because it was freezing.

772

And I said, "Where's the wood?"

773

He said, "Oh, you have to ring

me up and I'll bring it down."

774

And I was like, "No."

775

And he missed a trick there because it was

776

And a lot of, I don't think it teaches

people to respect our natural resources.

777

Wood is the rarest material in our

778

universe.

779

It's not diamonds, it's not gold.

780

It wood.

781

And it might look as it fell itself,

it doesn't cord itself, chop itself

782

and stack itself so it costs money.

783

And I think the more we, the more

we find ourselves disconnected

784

with the natural world.

785

I know what it's like in America,

but here in the UK we have terrible

786

problems with guests and fire because

most people have central heated houses.

787

I've got my log burner, my

log burner has gone out.

788

We've been talking actually.

789

But a lot of people don't understand

how to light or maintain a fire.

790

Zach Stoltenberg: Well, I

791

that's also a change between

primitive and the luxury.

792

That more rustic kind of what

you guys have, what Jeremy has,

793

that's a fun guest experience.

794

When you move to that luxury level, those

guests want to flip a switch and turn on

795

a propane burner that's in their unit.

796

Kate Morel: Fire.

797

Brian Searl: Yeah, I bet you there's a

I bet you there's a bigger market than

798

a lot of people think for luxury rig

owners who would be willing to learn how

799

to start a fire with a flint and steel.

800

If you offered like a really interesting

class or course or something, right?

801

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah.

802

saunas are a great example of it.

803

if you're having a sauna as an amenity,

you want that wood-fired sauna experience.

804

There's an attraction to that.

805

We looked at, I actually have an

electric one in my basement, but

806

that's because it's in my basement.

807

I'm not going to have a wood fire

in my basement, but it's not the

808

same as like an outdoor wood fire.

809

And propane experience, I don't know

if you've ever done a propane heated

810

sauna before, but it's not even close.

811

You're like, what what is this?

812

This is not the experience

I signed up for.

813

Brian Searl: Yeah, we like they

had I remember in Ireland we

814

didn't get to go stay at one, it

was sold out, the one I found.

815

But it was a place called Galgorm

that had wood-fired hot tubs

816

too that I really wanted to try.

817

Like I've tried one, there's a

place in Canada here that has one

818

that we didn't get to to light up,

but it takes forever to heat up.

819

People don't want that hassle.

820

But think it's a balance.

821

I think you like going back to the

fire too, like I think they don't want

822

to start a fire, they want to flip a

switch because they think you gotta

823

put a bunch of newspaper in there

and it's gonna cause a bunch of smoke

824

and they don't know how to stack.

825

But if they knew how, I don't know.

826

Maybe you wouldn't want

to do it every time.

827

I don't want to start a fire every

time with flint and steel but.

828

Jeremy Johnson: We might be

lucky in Northern Michigan that

829

we don't have that problem.

830

I don't know.

831

glad that the closest

metro is four hours away.

832

Zach Stoltenberg: From a

design perspective, a lot

833

of times try to do both.

834

The practicality of putting a wood

stove in a bell tent, all of those

835

valid points that you guys brought up.

836

Someone has to know what they're doing.

837

Has to know how to start it.

838

Has to know how the dampers work.

839

Otherwise you're going to end up with

a tent that just reeks smoke, right?

840

In that application an electric heat or

propane heat or something that turns on

841

with a flip of a switch may be better.

842

But when we do the communal campfire

down at the base camp area and

843

we set out buffet with all the

different toppings and fixings and

844

whatever you want to do your S'mores.

845

And that we do every Thursday, Friday,

Saturday starting at Everyone's

846

invited down if you're staying

for the weekend, you come down.

847

And that one your manager, your host,

your whoever is going to come down

848

and facilitate that whole thing.

849

That's the real fire experience.

850

And sitting around a campfire

and getting to meet other people.

851

And just just like Charlotte was saying

earlier, reason they have return guests.

852

People come out, not for the

accommodation, it's for the

853

experiences that they had there.

854

So I think from a design

perspective, we always, want both.

855

We want to deliver the experience,

but we also want to to deliver that

856

convenience quality guest experience.

857

Brian Searl: Sure.

858

Okay, let's wrap up.

859

Go ahead,

860

please.

861

No, go ahead.

862

Kate Morel: No, I wasn't gonna wrap up.

863

I was gonna say something else.

864

But continue first before I say

865

Brian Searl: it comes to guest experiences

and add-ons, I love that you threw that

866

into conversation, Zach, cause it's

867

been in my mind since we started really.

868

Is we we I don't know whether you

would agree Charlotte, as we maybe

869

we're moving on really in the UK

from saunas and things like that.

870

Moving more into sort of the, I see,

I'm advising my clients anyway, to

871

look at how to work with the land more.

872

So we're looking at installing land art

and hazel tunnels experiential ways cause

873

we keep using this phrase, I don't know

if you use it over in the States a lot.

874

Glamping sites over here says

we reconnect with nature.

875

What does that actually mean?

876

Because if you leave people to

their own devices, very often

877

they will revert to using a phone.

878

So I'm piloting schemes with

879

some

880

sites this year to actually get engage

with nature and it will be an add-on

881

But we're also running, doing a little

upskilling thing with with Vicki.

882

teaching people how to run

their workshops as well.

883

So craft workshops for guests and other

local people coming onto the site and

884

learning how to do and make things.

885

And yeah, with other local

activity providers as well.

886

Anything that's on brand and ties in with

the overall design aesthetics and the

887

experience you want to offer your guests.

888

I get very excited about this subject

obviously because the world's your oyster.

889

If you can't find it, make it up.

890

love Thelma and Louise.

891

Thelma and Louise?

892

Thelma's Essex?

893

a kind of yard style of company and

they've converted this outbuilding into a

894

fashion.

895

And they've used reclaimed

stuff and they've used this

896

theme of Thelma and Louise.

897

Just check out the girls, you're welcome.

898

Fabulous.

899

Because they've just made something up.

900

The world is our oyster.

901

I love that hospitality is.

902

You can just do

903

and create any experience that you want.

904

Yeah, you just have to be willing to,

and you have to curate it for people.

905

Go ahead, Charlotte.

906

Charlotte Cleavely: Yeah, definitely.

907

We just, we put shepherd huts in, we

just had some really cool guys down

908

the road that have me two beautiful

oak framed bridges and trees that we

909

actually had dropped where we wanted them.

910

And they've built me what will become

a living hedge round the side of it.

911

So I'm planning on having some info

on that kind of stuff with the guest

912

comes to that hut and then we will

offer the opportunity to add into it.

913

Cause you can literally just

keep adding into the hedge.

914

We'll have some willow there available

for them and they can put a little bit

915

in themselves so they can add their

tiny little touch to what we did.

916

yeah definitely back to nature, the

farming, the rustic, that kind of thing.

917

I think people are on board with that now.

918

Brian Searl: Awesome.

919

All right, let's wrap up the show.

920

We have a tradition that we

started at the end of last year I

921

tried at one of the conferences.

922

I thought really worked well

and that's just everybody

923

asking each other a question.

924

So what we typically do we'll

pick one of our special guests.

925

Let's start with Charlotte.

926

Charlotte, you can ask either

Kate or Zach or Jeremy a question.

927

You pick who you want

to ask a question to.

928

And then whoever you ask a question

to, they'll keep following on.

929

But if you ask a question to Zach,

nobody else can ask a question to Zach.

930

It'll be a process of elimination.

931

Charlotte, who would you

like to ask a question to?

932

Charlotte Cleavely: Zach.

933

So, Zach, how did you end

up doing what you do now?

934

Zach Stoltenberg: I wish I knew.

935

I fell into it.

936

Like I've done a bit of

everything with my career.

937

had an opportunity to work on

938

An awesome client.

939

I got connected with several

other people in the industry.

940

think we did a good job on the design

of that, but I didn't know any better.

941

And so we we did some unusual

things and some things that you

942

don't see in typical RV parks.

943

And it got a lot of attention from

potential investors, other developers.

944

And I started getting phone calls.

945

And people were like, "Hey we

saw what you did on this one.

946

We have property Arizona.

947

We have property in Oklahoma.

948

And we want something that's

not rows dominoes of RVs.

949

We want something that

works with the land."

950

So I really, I started on the

RV side and then anybody who

951

was in RV was paying attention

glamping and outdoor hospitality.

952

So then that kind of took over.

953

Now probably 60% of what I do is

experiential stays 40% still RV parks.

954

But yeah, I love where I'm at.

955

I love do what I'm doing and we built an

incredible team of different disciplines.

956

We got landscape architects and planners

and we just brought on an interior

957

designer right at the end of the year.

958

And doing incredible

projects all over the world.

959

But yeah, if you'd asked me

15 years ago if I ever thought

960

I'd be a outdoor hospitality

architect, it wasn't on my radar.

961

But I think I've always

been an outdoorsman.

962

I grew up, was a Boy

Scout, I'm an Eagle Scout.

963

I grew up camping with my family.

964

I love being outside.

965

And so I I think I probably

always had the personality for it.

966

I just figured out a way

to make it my job now.

967

Brian Searl: Cool.

968

All right, Zach.

969

Who do you want to ask a question to?

970

Zach Stoltenberg: Uh, I will

ask a question to Jeremy.

971

I want to know because with the

972

What is one trip that you want to take in

the next year because I know when you own

973

a business you never take time off, you

never get a break, constantly working.

974

So I want, I want to know if you

could go anywhere, take a trip

975

anywhere in the world in 2026.

976

Where would you go and why

do you want to go there?

977

And then tell me what your plan is for

978

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah, okay.

979

If I could go anywhere, it would

probably be somewhere in Central

980

or South America right now.

981

like I said earlier, it's 15 degrees

out with a negative 20 wind chill so I'm

982

craving some warmer weather at the moment.

983

But I'll answer it a little more

realistically and for me actually

984

the next trip I have coming, the

next two trips I have coming up.

985

One is to a beautifully designed

Airbnb in Northeast Wisconsin a

986

group of architects out of Minnesota,

David and his son Kai Salmela.

987

So we're going to visit that

Airbnb because it's just it's

988

a total unique experience.

989

It's high end, it's luxury and

we're going at the end of February.

990

We'll probably get some cross country

skiing in and some just like alone time

991

in a beautiful place with me and my wife.

992

And then the second one in the

springtime we're going up to Sault Ste.

993

Marie Canada, not Sault Ste.

994

Marie Michigan, but on the other side

of the border to the, don't know how

995

to say the name of the river, but it's

like the Goulais or Galashious River.

996

It's right off of Lake Superior

and again it's just this like

997

super unique experience, lots

of cool accommodations up there.

998

And really the trips we have

right now are for inspiration.

999

As we look to build what we're making

and add in cabins and different

00:53:06,203 --> 00:53:08,493

experiences like Kate was talking about.

00:53:08,933 --> 00:53:11,243

We plan to add in, we're

working with a couple different

00:53:11,243 --> 00:53:14,723

groups to add in recreational

opportunities, guiding opportunities.

00:53:15,223 --> 00:53:16,463

then even like folk schools.

00:53:16,463 --> 00:53:19,343

I don't know what you mentioned

crafting in the UK, we call

00:53:19,343 --> 00:53:20,983

them folk schools in the US.

00:53:21,345 --> 00:53:25,343

That's something that we're taking

a lot of time to go see what other

00:53:25,343 --> 00:53:29,148

people are doing our region and

understand and get inspiration from.

00:53:31,658 --> 00:53:32,698

Brian Searl: All right

Jeremy, Kate or Charlotte?

00:53:33,458 --> 00:53:33,888

Jeremy Johnson: Yeah.

00:53:33,980 --> 00:53:36,003

Man, this one could go

to either one of you.

00:53:36,065 --> 00:53:37,933

gonna I'm gonna go with Kate though.

00:53:38,295 --> 00:53:42,523

We talked a lot about how I think

the UK is a lot of people think

00:53:42,523 --> 00:53:46,863

the UK is ahead of the United

States in terms of this industry.

00:53:46,893 --> 00:53:49,863

And so I'm curious like what are

you seeing, what's at the forefront

00:53:49,863 --> 00:53:53,473

right now in the UK that we're

not even thinking about in the US?

00:53:53,505 --> 00:53:57,563

We're just getting into

these farm stays hospitality.

00:53:57,565 --> 00:53:59,903

What's like the next thing that

you guys are already on to?

00:54:03,033 --> 00:54:07,143

Kate Morel: Oh, that's a tough query

because it's I think we're going

00:54:07,403 --> 00:54:10,503

probably more down immersive route.

00:54:11,345 --> 00:54:13,803

We're already doing farm stays,

we've done farm stays, we've

00:54:13,803 --> 00:54:15,443

had feather down farms 15,

00:54:19,153 --> 00:54:19,543

16 years ago.

00:54:19,563 --> 00:54:20,083

So that's kind of old hat for us.

00:54:20,813 --> 00:54:24,703

But I still, there's an opportunity

for more people to do that.

00:54:25,095 --> 00:54:27,893

lot of farmers are looking

to diversify here in the UK.

00:54:28,183 --> 00:54:33,023

I don't know if anybody watched

Jeremy Clarkson's Farm program.

00:54:33,273 --> 00:54:35,263

Farmers having a tough

time of it over here.

00:54:35,753 --> 00:54:39,550

We've got a lot of farm shops popping

up, popping up Yeah, it's stuff

00:54:39,683 --> 00:54:47,083

actually re-learning going away to learn

something and to engage the natural

00:54:47,083 --> 00:54:54,533

world and learn about So we've got

massive, there's things like forest

00:54:54,543 --> 00:54:56,633

therapy are becoming very popular here.

00:54:56,683 --> 00:55:00,363

Forest bathing, learning

about trees, herbs,

00:55:02,463 --> 00:55:03,986

bees, all that sort of stuff.

00:55:04,363 --> 00:55:10,323

Maybe that's my slight prejudice because

I'm a forest therapy practitioner at

00:55:10,593 --> 00:55:16,793

the moment, so it's opened my eyes

to this whole world that fits in

00:55:16,803 --> 00:55:18,863

beautifully with glamping as well.

00:55:19,463 --> 00:55:20,963

We're doing research and

everybody's saying, yeah, that's

00:55:20,963 --> 00:55:23,873

going to be a big thing over here.

00:55:23,933 --> 00:55:25,933

So really properly engaging with nature.

00:55:27,113 --> 00:55:27,803

Brian Searl: All right, Kate.

00:55:28,043 --> 00:55:28,633

Charlotte.

00:55:28,633 --> 00:55:28,973

Kate Morel: Sorry Charlotte.

00:55:28,973 --> 00:55:30,093

You definitely need to come

00:55:35,453 --> 00:55:35,493

to our

00:55:35,513 --> 00:55:37,333

Brian Searl: Maybe that's what she was

going to ask you, if she can come stay.

00:55:37,333 --> 00:55:37,673

I don't know.

00:55:37,673 --> 00:55:38,543

Kate to Charlotte.

00:55:38,563 --> 00:55:40,183

You're the process of elimination.

00:55:40,343 --> 00:55:41,213

You have a question for Charlotte?

00:55:42,713 --> 00:55:44,193

Kate Morel: I'm going to

ask Charlotte, idea for your

00:55:46,483 --> 00:55:47,303

site this year?

00:55:48,985 --> 00:55:51,993

Charlotte Cleavely: We have just

been chatting to the same guys that

00:55:52,063 --> 00:55:55,403

did benches and the living fences.

00:55:55,893 --> 00:55:56,423

We've just been

00:55:58,773 --> 00:56:02,551

drafting plans for swim pond lake

in so that we could have lake in...

00:56:02,551 --> 00:56:03,628

lake might be a bit grand.

00:56:03,718 --> 00:56:04,458

A swim pond.

00:56:05,098 --> 00:56:09,123

that we could add that and it

slots in not dissimilarly with

00:56:09,478 --> 00:56:10,648

what you were talking about Kate.

00:56:10,678 --> 00:56:13,958

I think people are more

interested in nature, it's how...

00:56:15,308 --> 00:56:19,348

We also, as a side to our accommodation,

we also operate as a care farm.

00:56:20,258 --> 00:56:23,198

So we welcome people with all

sorts of different abilities,

00:56:23,538 --> 00:56:23,851

different needs to the farm.

00:56:23,851 --> 00:56:28,658

Green therapy and getting back

to nature, I think that stuff

00:56:28,658 --> 00:56:29,878

is to become a really big thing

00:56:36,098 --> 00:56:36,408

as well.

00:56:38,118 --> 00:56:38,338

So yeah, swim pond.

00:56:38,338 --> 00:56:38,415

That's what I'd love to do.

00:56:38,415 --> 00:56:38,419

Brian Searl: Wild swimming.

00:56:38,419 --> 00:56:38,423

Charlotte Cleavely: Wild swimming.

00:56:38,423 --> 00:56:38,618

Brian Searl: Wild swimming, yeah.

00:56:38,618 --> 00:56:39,538

That sounds interesting.

00:56:39,870 --> 00:56:43,558

I still like the places we went in Iceland

that were more than the Blue Lagoon.

00:56:43,558 --> 00:56:47,138

They were the just more in nature

and more in tune and more, yeah.

00:56:48,448 --> 00:56:50,538

Charlotte, where can they find out

more about Apple Farm Glamping?

00:56:51,808 --> 00:56:52,958

Charlotte Cleavely: So you can find us

00:56:55,998 --> 00:56:57,445

on TheAppleFarmGlamping.com.

00:56:57,628 --> 00:57:00,498

find us on Facebook, on

Instagram, a little bit on TikTok.

00:57:00,498 --> 00:57:01,708

So yeah, we're round about.

00:57:02,048 --> 00:57:06,188

We recently featured on a Channel

4 program called Four in So if

00:57:06,188 --> 00:57:09,518

any of you guys access any UK TV

at all that was a good giggle.

00:57:09,658 --> 00:57:14,183

So go yeah, you'll find

us pretty much everywhere.

00:57:14,183 --> 00:57:14,238

Brian Searl: Awesome.

00:57:14,238 --> 00:57:14,988

Thank you for being here Charlotte.

00:57:15,088 --> 00:57:16,518

Kate, can they find out

more about what you do?

00:57:18,908 --> 00:57:22,108

Kate Morel: On my website

creativehosts.com,

00:57:22,128 --> 00:57:22,178

Brian.

00:57:22,558 --> 00:57:23,408

Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Kate.

00:57:23,408 --> 00:57:23,978

I appreciate it.

00:57:24,008 --> 00:57:25,778

Jeremy, where can they find

out more about Cona Hills?

00:57:27,458 --> 00:57:28,078

Jeremy Johnson: CampKonaHills.com.

00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:29,248

on the website.

00:57:30,108 --> 00:57:30,468

Brian Searl: All right.

00:57:30,558 --> 00:57:32,388

And Zach, where can they find

out more about what you do?

00:57:33,850 --> 00:57:35,920

Zach Stoltenberg: The company is LJA.com,

00:57:35,940 --> 00:57:40,378

but LinkedIn really probably one of

the best places to to connect with me.

00:57:41,498 --> 00:57:41,820

Brian Searl: Awesome.

00:57:41,820 --> 00:57:43,948

Thank you guys for being here for

another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

00:57:43,948 --> 00:57:44,798

We went a couple minutes over.

00:57:45,128 --> 00:57:48,248

If you're not sick and tired of hearing

from me, I will be back on Outwired in

00:57:48,408 --> 00:57:52,008

about 54 minutes or so with Scott Bahr.

00:57:52,008 --> 00:57:55,858

We're going to cover a ton of news with

AI tech, robotics, stuff like that.

00:57:56,228 --> 00:57:59,313

And a bunch of different data that

slices and dices things like why

00:57:59,313 --> 00:58:03,513

retail sales are down 12% in November

for RVs some other things like that.

00:58:03,513 --> 00:58:04,963

So thank you guys for joining us.

00:58:04,993 --> 00:58:08,203

Other than that we will see you next week

on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

00:58:08,413 --> 00:58:08,723

Take care.

00:58:08,923 --> 00:58:09,453

Appreciate y'all.

00:58:11,033 --> 00:58:12,283

Charlotte Cleavely:

Happy New Year everybody.