The episode kicks off with our host, Brian Searl, welcoming a packed house of recurring and special guests to the first-week episode of the month, which traditionally focuses on industry data, trends, and insights. Brian sets a conversational and energetic tone, playfully bantering with the guests before inviting everyone to introduce themselves. The panel represents a diverse cross-section of the industry, bringing together perspectives from market research, RV dealerships, campground management, and international glamping operations to discuss the current economic and operational climate.

Rafael Correa shares the opening operational insights from Blue Water's extensive portfolio, noting an overall 8% revenue increase compared to the same time last year. However, Rafael is candid about the fact that they have had to fight hard for this market share, pointing out a noticeable drag in transient RV stays. He attributes this to consumer uncertainty, high diesel prices, and a lingering post-COVID market correction, while noting that seasonal RV stays, vacation rentals, and park models continue to perform strongly to balance the portfolio.

Scott Bahr adds his analytical perspective, revealing that recent market research shows a significant narrowing in travel diversity. Consumers are currently less likely to take trips of varying mileage or mix their accommodation types, opting instead for familiarity and comfort in what has become a highly risk-averse environment. Scott warns that this market instability will likely become even more "wobbly" moving forward, requiring operators to work much harder to address the specific, narrow reasons that are keeping individual guests from booking their stays.

Echoing these macro-level observations, Michael Moore shares that the Texas market is experiencing a very similar dip in transient business while long-term stays remain incredibly robust. Michael points out that the accommodation side of the business is thriving, which perfectly aligns with industry shipment data showing an increase in park models even as towable RV shipments decline. He emphasizes that the pandemic-era camping boom has naturally slowed down, meaning campground operators must now double their marketing and hospitality efforts to retain campers who have alternative travel options like flights and cruises.

Providing a critical look at the manufacturing and sales side, Phil Ingrassia states that new RV retail sales are down and will likely finish the year with an 8% to 12% decrease. Phil attributes this softness to poor consumer sentiment driven by inflation, economic anxiety, and geopolitical uncertainties. However, he highlights a silver lining for the industry: used RV sales are outperforming new sales, which clearly indicates that consumer interest still exists but has shifted out of necessity toward more affordable and budget-friendly alternatives.

McKay Quinn discusses how Dwell Outdoor Hospitality has strategically adapted to these economic headwinds by leaning heavily into long-term RV living rather than transient stays. Originally planning to build destination campgrounds, his company quickly realized that a massive 85% of their revenue was coming from long-term guests. McKay views this market shift as an opportunity to provide a much-needed affordable housing solution for consumers whose purchasing power is being eroded by inflation, as well as for fixed-income retirees looking to downsize and maintain their lifestyle.

Bringing a fascinating international perspective to the panel, Derry Green notes striking similarities between current US trends and the evolution of the UK's caravan market over the past two decades. He explains that younger generations in the UK are far less likely to buy traditional RVs, preferring multiple shorter, occasion-based trips closer to home where they can simply pack a bag and go. Derry emphasizes that today's guests are seeking seamless, highly convenient getaways where they can immediately relax, contrasting this with the time-consuming preparation that is often required for traditional RVing.

Miguel Huerta shares that the Mexican tourism industry, including both traditional hotels and glamping resorts, recently experienced significant decreases in demand due to shifts in consumer consumption and distractions like the World Cup. He candidly advises operators not to rely on organic demand in this climate, urging them instead to focus closely on expense management and proactive, creative demand generation. Miguel suggests that the industry needs to reinvent its offerings and go back to the basics of marketing, providing unique experiences like digital detox trips to captivate modern travelers who are overwhelmed by screens.

The conversation then beautifully converges on the concept of "unreasonable hospitality," with Derry detailing how his glamping business thrives by focusing intensely on the guest experience rather than just the physical accommodation. By offering simple, low-cost gestures like a customized greeting and a glass of prosecco at check-in, he successfully boosted repeat bookings by 72% and remains fully booked through the summer of 2027. Michael and Scott both strongly agree that these small, personalized touches are crucial for differentiating properties, avoiding the race to the bottom on pricing, and providing the immense perceived value that modern consumers demand.

As the episode draws to a close, the speakers unanimously agree on the critical role of authentic marketing and rapid adaptability in today's shifting landscape. Derry stresses that marketing a unique story and an emotional journey is far more effective than just showcasing physical glamping units, a sentiment that resonates deeply with the entire panel. Rafael adds that operators must continually reinvest in their assets and utilize new technologies, like AI, to empower their operations and connect with a rapidly evolving consumer base. Brian wraps up the highly engaging session by thanking everyone for their vulnerability and insights, reinforcing the core message that operators who remain nimble and focus on exceptional experiences will ultimately thrive.

Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

2

My name's Brian Searl with Insider

Perks, and I left my other thing

3

in there on the laptop, so now

there's two of me up on the screen.

4

That's gonna be interesting.

5

I'll take myself off in a second.

6

But, uh, welcome to another

episode of MC Fireside Chats.

7

We're excited to be here

for our first week episode.

8

We normally talk about industry

data, trends, insights, all that

9

kind of stuff on today's show.

10

So we got a couple of our recurring

guests who are usually with us always.

11

On this first week we got Raf, let

you go introduce yourself in a second.

12

Rafa uh, Scott Bahr, Phil Ingrassia, and

a new recurring guest who's gonna join us

13

every first week here, Michael Moore, who

I'll give extended time to you, Michael.

14

You have to compress your life story

into about 30 seconds and just kind of

15

play around and be prepared with that.

16

We'll let you go last.

17

Um, but-

18

Michael Moore: Yeah

19

… Brian Searl: introduce yourself.

20

Tell us what you can bring to the table,

'cause there's a lot that you got,

21

that you've been doing, and you've been

involved in the industry for a long,

22

long time, so excited to have you here.

23

And then two special guests, Derry, uh,

and, um, sorry, I forgot your name, man.

24

It's too small to read.

25

McKay.

26

McKay Quinn: McKay.

27

Brian Searl: And Miguel is here too maybe.

28

He popped off, so, uh, I'm old, okay?

29

Don't blame me.

30

I forget everybody's name every week.

31

So, all right, let's, uh, briefly

go around, just introduce ourselves.

32

Raf, you wanna start?

33

Rafael Correa: Yeah, no, absolutely.

34

Good to see everybody.

35

Glad to be back.

36

I know I've been, you know, a little

bit out of, uh, missed a couple

37

months here of some travel, vacation

and, you know, just summer fun.

38

But, uh, excited to be back on.

39

Rafael Correa.

40

I'm the President and CFO of

Bluewater Hospitality, and we are a

41

owner/operator manager of RV resorts.

42

We do third-party management.

43

We have our own owned portfolio, uh,

concentrated in the, uh, RV space.

44

We also have a small hotel

portfolio of about eight hotels,

45

uh, that we own and manage.

46

Um, and on the RV side, our portfolio

is 64 properties, uh, under management.

47

So yeah, excited to be here.

48

Brian Searl: Welcome, sir.

49

Thanks for being here.

50

Appreciate you.

51

Uh, uh, Phil, you wanna go next?

52

Phil Ingrassia: Sure.

53

Phil Ingrassia, President of

the RV Dealers Association.

54

We represent, uh, US motor home and

travel trailer dealers across the country.

55

Brian Searl: Thanks for

being here as always, Phil.

56

Scott Bahr?

57

Scott Bahr: Uh, Scott Bahr, President

of the Cairn Consulting Group.

58

We are a market research organization

working primarily in outdoor

59

hospitality, outdoor recreation.

60

Um, yeah, great to see everybody again.

61

Brian Searl: Yeah, thanks

for being here again, Scott.

62

Uh, and last but not least, our

new entrant to the recurring

63

guest space, Michael Moore.

64

Michael Moore: Yeah, thanks

for having me, Brian.

65

Uh, my name's Michael Moore.

66

Uh, I wear a couple different hats.

67

One is, uh, working with the Texas

Association of Campground Owners,

68

uh, or TACO as we like to call it,

uh, the biggest, uh, depending on

69

who you ask, Florida, uh, campground

association in the country.

70

And then, uh, we also have our

marketing division, for-profit division

71

called Camping with Guest Guides,

where, uh, we work with 1,000

72

campgrounds all over the country in

one form or another, but primarily

73

providing kinda marketing material,

check-in material, that kind of stuff.

74

So yeah, thanks for having me.

75

Brian Searl: Thanks for

being here, Michael.

76

I have one question for you

before we get to Miguel to hop

77

on and let him introduce himself.

78

Do you find that there's any

branding issues now that Trump

79

always chickens out or The tacos.

80

I'm just kidding

81

Michael Moore: Uh, no, no, we

lean into it, man, believe me.

82

We, we started doing, uh, at our

convention Taco Tuesday to kinda kick

83

it off, and that is always a big hit.

84

So, uh, I invite anyone to come

on, uh, come on by the TACO show

85

in April and, uh, have some tacos.

86

Brian Searl: All right.

87

Sorry, I had to just

get that one out there.

88

I thought that was no politics there.

89

Um, Miguel, please

introduce yourself, sir.

90

Welcome.

91

Miguel Huerta: Hello, everyone.

92

Um, my name is Miguel Huerta.

93

It's, uh, it's a blessing and a

pleasure to, to be back on the show.

94

Uh, I was on a work, uh,

hiatus, let's call it like that.

95

Um, I don't know if you saw on social

media and on TV, but, uh, the, the

96

streets in Mexico, they were packed.

97

Uh, people, they were, uh,

throwing people in the air.

98

Uh, they, they, they were

doing some, uh, crowd surfing.

99

It was great.

100

It was great.

101

Although not so much for the

tourist industry in Mexico.

102

Uh, I, so I have couple of insights.

103

But yeah, uh, it wa- it was a

fun time to be around in Mexico.

104

Brian Searl: Glad to have you back, sir.

105

Uh, and last but not least,

our two special guests.

106

Uh, McKay, you wanna go first?

107

McKay Quinn: Yeah, thanks.

108

Thanks for having me on, Brian.

109

My name is McKay Quinn.

110

I'm the founder of Dwell

Outdoor Hospitality.

111

We're a owner and operator of RV

resorts in the Mountain West, uh,

112

stretching from, uh, Wyoming and

Idaho down into Utah and Arizona.

113

And, uh, we, we mostly own what we

manage and, uh, excited to be here.

114

We're, uh, we're leaning

heavily into, um…

115

We've launched a brand a couple weeks

ago called Dwell RV Communities, and,

116

uh, leaning into long-term RV living

is a big part of what we're doing.

117

Brian Searl: Awesome.

118

Excited to have you here, sir.

119

Last but not least, from across the pond.

120

Can I say across the pond even though it's

technically between France and the UK?

121

Derry Green: Yeah, we, we,

we're far across the pond.

122

That'll do.

123

Yeah.

124

Uh, yeah, so great to

be back again, Brian.

125

Um, my name's Derry.

126

I'm the founder of The

Secret Garden Glamping.

127

We're the UK's most followed, most

viewed, and most booked glamping brand.

128

Um, we have five locations across the

UK and now in Ireland as well, with

129

a further six opening, uh, this year.

130

Uh, I also am the president

of GITA, the Glamping Industry

131

Trade Association for the UK.

132

Um, so working with lots of

owner-operators and, uh, yeah,

133

really exciting times over here.

134

Brian Searl: Which I'm

a member of GITA too.

135

Derry Green: There you go.

136

Brian Searl: I don't think I've

done anything with my membership

137

yet- … but I am a member, so.

138

Derry Green: Thank you.

139

Brian Searl: Coming when I have time.

140

All right, so, uh, to our normal

recurring guests, I kind of toss out

141

this first question at the beginning

of the show to, to Raf, to Phil, to

142

Miguel, Scott, uh, Michael too, uh,

now that you're a recurring guest.

143

If you wanna weigh in, is there anything

that's come across your gentleman's desk

144

since we last got together you think we

should be talking about, kind of primarily

145

related to your data in, in industry

insights, trends, and stuff like that?

146

Rafael Correa: Sure, I'd be happy

to kick it off, um, and then pass

147

it off to whoever wants to go next.

148

But, you know, from a Blue Water

perspective, kinda what we're seeing, our,

149

our whole portfolio, we're about up 8%

over same time last year as a portfolio.

150

Um, I would tell you that that's

eroded, uh, since early summer.

151

I think we were at 12…

152

11, 12%.

153

And of course, this is a mix of

stabilized, uh, resort properties,

154

more long-term stay properties

that are in Texas, so it's a

155

very diverse pool of assets.

156

Um, uh, definitely we've had to work

for it is the best way to describe it.

157

Uh, it's not, it's not coming easy, and

I think this is, you know, the tough

158

times start to really kind of show you

what you're made of in a lot of ways,

159

and I'm, you know, been very pleased

and, and, and proud of my team for what

160

they've been able to accomplish in this

kind of like you gotta fight, f- fight for

161

every piece of market share that you get.

162

Um, the drag is definitely on the RV side.

163

Uh, transient RV side to be specific.

164

You know, seasonal RV, we've

sold a lot more seasonal RV.

165

That trend, I'm sure everybody's

hearing it, it's a, it's a big component

166

that, of kind of what's created

some of the stability for this year.

167

Uh, vacation rentals, on the

other hand, are doing really

168

well, uh, and performing strong.

169

And the, obviously, the distribution

that we have, uh, through all the

170

other, you know, vacation rental

platforms has been very helpful, uh, and

171

contributed significantly to exposing

people to this type of stay and travel.

172

And so, um, you know, on the park model

side of the business, 'cause we also

173

are in that world, um, we've seen…

174

We've had a good year, I wouldn't say

a great year, uh, but it's been steady.

175

Uh, and what we are seeing is a

lot of renewed interest, and I

176

think it correlates to what we're

seeing on our stay patterns where

177

people are really liking the VRs.

178

We're seeing a lot of bigger projects

come back to life and bigger orders that

179

are in the kind of planning phase, where

people are asking for proposals for, you

180

know, 10, 20, 30, and sometimes even up

to 50 units, uh, that they wanna deploy

181

out there because I think they see the,

the value add that park models can bring

182

to RV resorts or, or other facilities that

can leverage that type of accommodation.

183

So I would say the other kind of

neat observation that we've seen

184

this year is, um, September is, uh…

185

August, where Labor Day was last year,

uh, is now fully into September this year.

186

And so we were expecting to

see a drop-off in A- uh, sorry,

187

am I getting that backwards?

188

I think Labor Day is in

August this year, right?

189

Brian Searl: Maybe you're-- I'm

in Canada, man, I don't know.

190

Rafael Correa: That's

right, you don't even…

191

Yeah, you have silly holidays.

192

Regardless, it moved from

one month to the other.

193

The point being is that the,

the month that it left we were

194

expecting to have a drop off, but

it's actually been very strong.

195

And so both August and September

are looking really good to finish

196

the season off strong, which is, uh,

was a neat and, uh, and welcome, uh,

197

signal that we're seeing from people

that are still planning RV trips.

198

So I'll, I'll take a pause there.

199

Brian Searl: I'm curious from your

perspective, uh, Raf, if you're willing

200

to share, like why, why do you think

or do you have a sense of, if you don't

201

know, why transient RV is, is weaker?

202

Because I think I'm seeing that, and I

think Scott would say he's seeing that

203

too, uh, across not, like on a macro level

across the industry, not a micro level.

204

There are certain places that

are doing good with it, right?

205

Rafael Correa: That question just tells

me that you don't drive a diesel truck.

206

So how is your EV?

207

You're looking real

smart right now, right?

208

Um, you know, I think that that's,

I think that's a big factor, right?

209

Is that, that longer trip, um, you know, I

live in a community also where, uh, sport

210

fishing is a huge hobby and activity.

211

And so these, to fill these giant,

you know, 50, 60-foot sport fishing

212

boats is, is not an inconsiderate,

or not a, not a, um, a small matter.

213

So the, even we're seeing it even there.

214

Like the, the boats are leaving the

dock less, uh, because of what it costs

215

to, to fuel and do a, a day of fishing.

216

It's just, it's gotten so expensive.

217

And so I think that that's, you know,

probably by far the thing that's got

218

people spooked and even more than the

reality of the cost implication, uh, for

219

what is still affordable way to travel,

it is, um, it's the perception, right?

220

Of like, I'm not sure, I don't feel safe

spending money and, you know, and so I

221

want to be more guarded with my spend.

222

And so that's the, that's definitely,

you know, my perception of it.

223

I don't know, uh, and I think in-

inherently by selling a lot more

224

long-term stays and seasonal stays,

there's some natural cannibalization

225

that's happening there as well.

226

Like that person who would've traveled

is now just staying at one RV resort.

227

And so there's all those factors are

at play, um, you know, that in my

228

opinion are what, are the primary

reasons that people are uncomfortable

229

making, uh, more booking commitments.

230

Brian Searl: So I mean, this is what

interests me and like I, and I, and then

231

we'll move on to somebody else 'cause I

don't want to monopolize the show, right?

232

But like just generally speaking, this

is what int- this is what interests me.

233

Do you think then, and I understand

gas prices are the thing, diesel

234

is higher than gasoline and so I'm,

I'm with you on all that and I don't

235

own a car by the way, uh, at all.

236

So I just piggyback and hi- uh,

hitchhike on my girlfriend's car.

237

But, uh, it, it- I have a sense that

your second point with the uncertainty,

238

with the cutting back, with the increased

costs of everything in everybody's

239

lives that's maybe just starting, maybe

peaking, whatever it is, uh, is more

240

of a factor in my belief, and I'm not

saying I'm right, but just my belief,

241

than is the temporary diesel prices.

242

Because if it was just temporary,

and I know, I know you're not

243

saying it is, so I'm not trying

to put words in your mouth, right?

244

Um, if it was just the diesel prices, then

you would expect that once diesel prices

245

come back down, which may or may not

happen this week, tomorrow, the 88 times

246

previously that we've had peace, or next

month, or next year, or whenever that is,

247

uh, then RVing would naturally come back.

248

But do we think that's the

case, that it's just that

249

suppression, or is it more factors?

250

Rafael Correa: No, and that's,

that's kinda why I also expanded

251

that to say the perception, right?

252

Like, I think the exacerbated fuel

prices is just one more reason people

253

are already somewhat guarded about

their pocketbook and being more

254

conscientious of how they're spending.

255

You know, although, you know, Wells Fargo

pub- published some data that, you know,

256

they see paychecks going up 'cause they

see all the direct deposit activity, and

257

they see that the direct deposits are

outpacing, you know, the cost of living.

258

And so, that the raises are coming

through, and that they see spend,

259

you know, continuing to be strong.

260

And so I'm not sure what the, you know,

what is it the, the RVer psychology

261

that might still not be there, right?

262

'Cause that's a subset of the data

that Wells Fargo's probably looking at.

263

Um, but, you know, my, my

assumption, my, you know…

264

And, and I think this is all

still post-COVID hangover, right?

265

Uh, you know, we're still not

through it completely, you

266

know, in my honest opinion.

267

So you have both of those factors at

play that, you know, my hope as we return

268

to the pre-COVID, you know, what we've

been very accustomed to in this industry

269

pre-COVID was, like, this very steady

marginal growth rate every year that

270

you could just kinda count on, right?

271

And it went that way for years,

and years, and years, and years.

272

And then COVID was this, like, you

know, catapulted it, which put us

273

in a bubble for, you know, lack of

better terms, and now we're, we're

274

recovering from that hangover.

275

Uh, that bubble burst, and we are now

seeing what the new growth trajectory

276

is, and nobody has a really good

feel of what that is, uh, or I think

277

a really good idea of what that

psychology of the, the average RVer

278

that making them maybe RV less or

choose to do something else, right?

279

Because it, it, that may

also be what's happening.

280

It's 'cause I think, you know,

every airport that I've been to

281

this summer has been packed, so it's

not like people aren't traveling.

282

Brian Searl: Scott, do you have

anything you wanna add to that or

283

take it in a different direction?

284

Scott Bahr: Y- yeah.

285

I mean, I th- it's, it's, uh- I

think what we're seeing right now are

286

some really interesting, um, market

dynamics and, and, um, changes.

287

And we're, I think we're just starting

to see, um, how that's gonna play out.

288

And, you know, I've, I've done some, some

research recently, and I, unfortunately

289

I can't share much of it with you, but

one of the things I can say is that,

290

um, what we're seeing right now is that

it appears that for many, that the,

291

the type of travel they're taking is

less diversified, if that makes sense.

292

They're not taking the same variety

of trip types that we saw just a few

293

years ago when we saw a lot of blended

travel where people would, would,

294

you know, have, you know, maybe stay

at a short-term rental somewhere.

295

Maybe they'd camp.

296

Maybe they'd go to a resort.

297

Um, and we saw a great

deal of that happening.

298

It appears that that is narrowing,

that, that people are less likely

299

to take that variety of trips,

more likely to take just one type.

300

And that applies even to, like,

distance traveled, where they're much

301

less likely to take trips of varying

mileage and, and driving distance

302

or travel distance away from home.

303

So not just the idea that they're

staying closer to home overall, but

304

there's less, they're less likely to

include trips of, of variety, for lack

305

of a better way of, of, of putting it.

306

So it seems like, and here, this is

just me blabbering a little bit about

307

it, but it feels a little bit like

people as, as this, you know, these

308

economic conditions are wearing on

and wearing people down a little bit,

309

that there's some kind of comfort

in just kind of knowing what you're

310

gonna do, knowing where you're gonna

go, what to expect, all those things.

311

The risk involved, I feel like

we're in a, a much more risk-averse

312

environment right now, and that may…

313

I could have probably saved myself

a lot of time just by saying that.

314

Rafael Correa: Good word.

315

Brian Searl: Uh, do you, do you feel

like though that, like to me, if you're

316

an RVer and you own your RV and you

regularly go camping two, three, four

317

times a summer, maybe even longer, right?

318

With the baseline, what, one to two

trips a year is what the average is for

319

in a, in a private campground at least.

320

Um, if that's your baseline, isn't

that already your comfort level though?

321

So why would, why would

you back off of that?

322

Wouldn't you just stay closer to home

like we've been talking about for a while?

323

Scott Bahr: Well, I mean,

that's a, that's a fairly narrow

324

part of the market, honestly.

325

It's, um, the, the, the rest of the market

o- out there is, you know, there, there

326

are a great number of people who take,

you know, who, who did take, um, you know,

327

this, these different types of trips.

328

And, um, it just seems like even when

we ask questions about like reasons why

329

or why not they do something or don't do

something, it, again, it's much narrower.

330

That in the past, and I've been, I've

been super interested in this, this

331

topic and I, so I've been, uh, looking

at it in more detail, which is if

332

someone tells you, like, "Why, why

aren't you gonna go camping this year?"

333

And we'll pro- say we'll

have a whole list of reasons.

334

In the past, a person may, it

may be like all these things have

335

to converge for them not to go.

336

It's like, ah, the kids got school,

work's a pain, um, oh, and the

337

price of gas is a little much,

so it's like, ah, I'm not going.

338

It's, now it's one thing.

339

It's typically one thing comes up.

340

Oh, it could be, ah, the,

the kids got activities, or

341

work's a pain, or gas prices.

342

So you're not seeing the same, like the,

the whole, like the algorithm that creates

343

people, um, creates the, the situation

where they will or won't participate,

344

a- again, has narrowed, which means it's

much less stable than it used to be.

345

That means that that person who in

the past may have just taken one or

346

two trips, now one thing can interfere

with their trip and they won't go, and

347

that's why the market is a little bit

maybe all over the place at the moment.

348

I know it's, um, in some areas it's

doing well, some not so well, but

349

overall, I, that's kind of something

that I've been looking into a little

350

bit more and I feel like it's, it,

it's, it's fairly relevant too.

351

Brian Searl: Does that get more stable

352

opinion, or does it become more wobbly?

353

Scott Bahr: It becomes more

wobbly unless something changes.

354

Sure.

355

Um, if, if, if we're on this path,

it's gonna become even more wobbly.

356

So that's, that's why like when, when

Ravi when you mentioned that, that we

357

had to work harder, it's kinda like

I, I think there's a lot of people

358

that are gonna have to work harder.

359

It's, I'm not saying

it's, it can't be done.

360

I'm not saying that at all.

361

In fact, I think it's very achievable.

362

But yeah, y- you're gonna probably have

to work a lot harder to do that, to find

363

those wobbly people and address that one

reason, that one or two reasons that, that

364

prevent them from, from, uh, coming out

and staying with you or, you know, coming

365

out at all or taking multiple trips even,

is which what we'd like to see more of

366

Brian Searl: Michael, you have anything

to add or you wanna change subjects?

367

Or

368

Michael Moore: No, I mean, I

think I, I probably echo what,

369

uh, Raf and Scott said already.

370

I mean, we're seeing that in Texas

too, where, um, the transient business

371

has definitely seen a, a bit of a dip

compared to the long-term business,

372

which is absolutely what the campgrounds

are sort of leaning into now.

373

Uh, 'cause that's where the,

that's where the need is, you know?

374

That's where the demand is.

375

So, and at the same time, you

know, the accommodation side

376

of things are doing very well.

377

I mean, and that kind of jives

with, you know, I was looking at

378

the RBIA monthly shipment numbers.

379

You've got the towables that are,

you know, on a decline for the

380

year, but then you've got the

park models and accommodation

381

units still going up, you know?

382

So I, I don't know that this kinda

trend that's going on now, kinda

383

like Scott said, I don't think

it's, it's gonna stop anytime soon.

384

I think it's gonna kinda, you know, spill

over into early next year at a minimum.

385

Um, and look, I think, you know,

for, as far as a reason goes,

386

let's face it, camping had its

kinda moment post-COVID, right?

387

Like it was, it was the cool thing and

it was a hot thing and that kinda stuff.

388

And so now it's definitely

kinda slowed down.

389

And so, uh, uh, I just reiterate what

everyone has said already, which is

390

the campgrounds are gonna have to

work probably doubly as hard to keep

391

the business they have, let alone,

you know, attract new business.

392

Because these campers, they've

got other options, not just

393

within the campground industry.

394

I mean, there's more campgrounds than

there ever has been before, uh, but just

395

another kind of travel accommodations

too, whether it's a flight, whether

396

it's a cruise or, or what have you.

397

So yeah, I, I don't know that

I, I have anything different.

398

I think everything everyone has

said is true and, uh, I think

399

we all need to kinda accept it.

400

Brian Searl: Well, we don't accept

anything on this show, Michael.

401

Phil, fix it.

402

Phil Ingrassia: Well, you know,

uh, Rafael, I would just say that,

403

um, being up 8% is, uh, something

to be very proud of right now.

404

Uh, I can tell you the RV

dealers would be ecstatic-

405

Rafael Correa: Tickled.

406

Yeah.

407

… Phil Ingrassia: if retail was up 8%.

408

We're going the other way.

409

We're probably gonna be

down between 8 and 12%.

410

Uh, Patrick Industries, which is a huge

supplier to the, uh, RV manufacturers,

411

came out with their retail, uh, g-

uh, forecast late last week, and

412

they're, they're between 280 and 300.

413

And we went into this year

thinking we might be 340 to 350.

414

So it's been, it's been soft.

415

And, um, you know, I think a lot of it

is just the consumer uncertainty that

416

everybody's talked about You know, for

years, uh, so many things are wrapped

417

up into consumer sentiment, right?

418

I mean, gas prices, stock

market, job security, all these

419

things in consumer sentiment.

420

Well, right now consumer sentiment

is, is, as reported by the

421

conference board, is not good.

422

And so that really takes its toll on

discretionary purchases, whether it's

423

an RV, boat, even a power sports.

424

So it's, it's definitely

a challenging environment.

425

It's not a disaster, and I'm really glad

to hear that, um, you know, there's a

426

lot of interest in seasonal camping,

and we've heard a lot about that, not

427

only from the private campgrounds,

but also the public campgrounds.

428

State park systems are reporting, um, you

know, packed over Fourth of July weekend

429

and people, but they're staying closer to

home because of the gas price situation.

430

So, uh, the other thing that I've

been looking at is used sales, used

431

RV sales, and they are not nearly

as, um, down year over year as new.

432

So what's that tell us?

433

It tells us that people are still there.

434

They still wanna buy, but they're,

they're looking for more affordable

435

alternatives maybe than new.

436

And I'll just say one more thing.

437

Dealer inventory levels are in really

good shape, but dealers are cautious.

438

They're not gonna be reorDerryng

as, at a, at a pace that maybe the

439

manufacturers would like to see.

440

Um, but you know, they're gonna be

waiting for those, uh, you know, late

441

fall, early winter shows to start

bringing more, uh, RVs onto the lot.

442

And, uh, this geopolitical situation,

as Scott was talking about, really

443

needs to stabilize before, you know,

anybody's gonna put their foot on the gas

444

Brian Searl: Before we pivot to

glamping, McKay, since you're involved

445

on both the long-term and short-term

side and over there in, in Western

446

United States where there's more

drive time between places, right?

447

What are you, what is

your sense of all this?

448

And then just for, for briefly before you

go into that, tell us a little bit about

449

what you, what you do at Dwell briefly.

450

McKay Quinn: Yeah.

451

Happy to.

452

Um, so we, we do, we, we started so, I

mean, it's part of our background and we,

453

we started it at the peak of this, right?

454

2022, 2023 was things were great, right?

455

Look- looked great to

be an RV park investor.

456

And, uh, um, you know, we were

part of that, look lured into this,

457

this asset class, if you will.

458

But, um, we set out to build these

campgrounds thinking originally that

459

they were going to be transient and

either, either destination, you know,

460

next to a national park, or overnighters,

weekend stays, kinda along major freeway

461

corridors or highway connecting corridors.

462

So we've quickly learned, you know, in the

last couple of years that, um, you know,

463

most of our revenue, 85% of our revenue

is actually attributed to long-term stays.

464

Um, and so we've leaned into that

because that's where the market's at.

465

In the locations, it's very location

specific, but in the locations that

466

we originally set out to build.

467

And so we've been blessed to be able to

be nimble and a- adapt to that and change

468

our marketing, and that's something that

is a, you know, beautiful thing with RV

469

parks is they are flexible usually if your

zoning allows to have longer term stays.

470

And we're, we're now building a business

completely on the thesis of the fact

471

that the doll- the US consumer's

dollar is going less and less far.

472

Every, every day when the gas gas

price goes up at the pump, you're,

473

you, you know, inflation is real,

and people are feeling it in the

474

fact that they're not, you know,

they're not going as far from home.

475

They're not, uh, taking

as many trips in their RV.

476

And so we've just leaned

in 100% to say, "All right.

477

W- we're gonna view this

more as a housing…

478

This is more of an affordable housing

solution than it is a, as a destination

479

or a, a hospitality, um, asset."

480

For, for the assets that make sense, you

have to have demand drivers in terms of

481

employment, um, and you also have to make

sure that the affordability, you know, the

482

alternatives to living in an RV are not

less affordable than your, your site rent.

483

So there are some metrics to keep your

eye on, but that's, that's what we've

484

leaned into and what we're really, you

know, building our, our business on

485

in any new acquisitions that we do.

486

Brian Searl: Is there a sense, McKay,

that you feel like, and, and to anyone

487

else who wants to take this question

after McKay too, who wants to weigh in

488

on it, but is there a sense that there

might be a, a cap on the number of people

489

who are willing to stay long-term, who

either can buy an RV or want to get

490

into this type of lifestyle, or have

we not come anywhere close to that yet?

491

McKay Quinn: It's a great, great question.

492

Um, it's very hard to measure as well.

493

Um, but what we…

494

The way we see it is that- Um, i- if

you're providing affordable housing

495

at the kinda entry level and inflation

continues to go on the up and up,

496

there's going to be more and more people

pushed into the category of needing the

497

most affordable housing that there is.

498

And so I believe that that is a growing

segment, um, as long as we have these

499

geopolitical, uh, constraints and we have

in, uh, a high inflationary environment.

500

So, uh, not exactly answering your

question 'cause I, I don't know

501

exactly how to measure, but I do think

that, that, that consumer is growing,

502

whether it's by choice or by necessity.

503

We're also seeing a lot of people, uh,

fixed income retirees that are saying,

504

"Hey, maybe what I'll do is I will

downsize into full-time RV living.

505

I'll sell my assets, my house, my shop,

my two acres of land up north, and I

506

will go into a year-round RV situation,"

whether that's year-round in a market

507

that is a good climate for year-round

living, or they could still be splitting

508

time, but they're not going back home.

509

They're just going to an RV park in their

hometown rather than going to their house.

510

And so they're selling those assets

to be able to, you know, maintain

511

the lifestyle that they want.

512

Brian Searl: So, so you don't

think this is more by choice?

513

You think it's more they're kind of backed

into a corner and need to do this, or?

514

Obviously macro and micro

is different, right?

515

But mac- on a macro level.

516

McKay Quinn: Yeah, I,

I think you have both.

517

I think you have both, for sure.

518

Um, but it's probably more

out of necessity right now

519

because of the inflation.

520

Rafael Correa: Yeah.

521

And, and housing availability.

522

I mean, that's another-

523

Scott Bahr: Correct.

524

Absolutely

525

… Rafael Correa: major constraint is

that, you know, I mean, there, there's

526

legislation they're trying to pass in

Maryland right now to kind of at the

527

state level to basically force all

the counties to accept this concept

528

of an accessory dwelling unit, right?

529

So that they can create

more housing rapidly.

530

Scott Bahr: Yeah.

531

Rafael Correa: Uh, and I think

there's a lot of that legislation

532

happening all over the country.

533

Um, and so that, that's a

response to a housing shortage

534

that's real in a lot of places.

535

McKay Quinn: That's right.

536

Phil Ingrassia: I think another

thing that's going on too, and Texas

537

is certainly, uh, in the headlines

right now with what one of my members

538

calls, um, extended stay- Mm uh, type.

539

They're, they're not gonna be there

permanently, but they're, they're

540

campgrounds that are going up around

data centers or Amazon warehouses

541

where, uh, you know, the, the, the

housing situation is not n- uh, adequate

542

to address the temporary workers or

permanent workers that may be coming in.

543

So, you know, I, I, I hear from my members

in Texas about this phenomena and, uh,

544

it's, it's really starting to make some

national headlines about what is the exact

545

answer to this because it creates a lot of

different situations within the locality,

546

especially if there are children involved

and school impacts and things like that.

547

So, you know, I think it's something that,

um, is interesting for the industry to

548

kind of try to balance, okay, here's the,

here's the issues that are coming up.

549

How are our products, how

do they fit into that?

550

Brian Searl: Yeah, because there's

not really a, there's not really a

551

standard stock answer now, right?

552

Like, if you're a campground

that already exists and you're

553

near a data center, great.

554

You've got a lot of extra

business temporarily, right?

555

Right.

556

But if you're not a campground and you're

looking to build one, you're not gonna

557

build one for a temporary solution that

could take six to eight months for them

558

to build and then everybody's gone.

559

There's gotta be another reason

for you to build there, right?

560

There's almost no model in the middle.

561

Rafael Correa: Yeah.

562

It's, it's, that's a care- that's a

precarious situation to potentially put

563

yourself in, uh, around those things.

564

And so that's all well and good when the

government's gonna pay for it and you're

565

getting your ROI in the four or five years

that you're gonna have this, you know.

566

There, and there's companies that

specialize in building those, you know,

567

for lack of a better term, man camps, uh,

that are that temporary housing solutions.

568

Um, I think the other thing to consider,

and there's a couple things you said

569

there, Phil, that I think kinda really

rang true for me, is that, uh, and

570

it, it makes me think about another

thing that I think about, which is

571

this kind of boom of institutional

capital that has come into the space.

572

You know, how many RV

resorts have been built?

573

Are we somewhat hitting this kind of like,

did the supply outpace the demand, right?

574

Um, and, and, and in certain places I

think that's a real, a real consideration.

575

And I think the other thing that's

happening, and I think all of these things

576

are true at some level and converging, is

that, um- Only the strong survive and our

577

consumer is evolving very quickly, right?

578

In how they search for campgrounds,

what they expect from a campground,

579

what they expect as far as amenities

and, and accommodations, what

580

they expect from a service level.

581

Um, you know, we're now in the

area of un- uh, in the era of

582

unreasonable hospitality, right?

583

And this thing of like where

hospitality can be something more

584

elevated, can be something better,

and it's in the little things.

585

And so it's challenging, I think,

everybody in the industry, whether

586

you're an institutional owner, whether

you're a, um, a, a owner/operator, you

587

know, of a family legacy campground, is

that you gotta be reinvesting in your

588

asset, you gotta be reinvesting in,

you know, your marketing and how you

589

sell, and you gotta be paying attention

to your, to your demand drivers.

590

Uh, McKay, to your point earlier, I mean,

that's, that's so huge to understand

591

why do people come see me versus

anywhere else they can choose to go?

592

And, and if you're not constantly focused

on those differentiators and drawing

593

new people to those differentiators,

it's gonna get harder and harder, right?

594

Um, and so this is where it's kind

of the necessity is the mother

595

of invention and there's a lot of

necessity out there for us these days.

596

Brian Searl: Well, and I think that's

a good pivot to, to Derry probably- Mm

597

… and different, different experiences.

598

Uh, Derry, briefly introduce yourself and,

and what you've got going on, 'cause I,

599

I follow you on LinkedIn and I've seen

you've been on the show- Yeah … before.

600

I think it's been a couple years.

601

You've done a lot of great things

in the industry over there.

602

So briefly tell the audience

who you are and what you do.

603

Derry Green: Yeah.

604

So I started The Secret

Garden Glamping, um, in COVID.

605

Pre-COVID, I used to have a transport

business shipping stuff to Europe and we,

606

in that first lockdown, I lost my business

and got stuck at home with the kids.

607

We had a camping trip in the

garden, um, it was great, just us.

608

And in that first lockdown I built,

I ended up building a pod in our

609

back garden for me and the kids.

610

It went viral online.

611

Um, I decided to list it on Airbnb,

and within two days it was fully

612

booked for two years in advance.

613

And then since then we've gone

on, we've now got 27 units

614

across five different locations.

615

We usually book around 18

to 24 months in advance.

616

We've had 100% occupancy for six

years, and our whole focus is on

617

changing the glamping market and what

it is that people are looking for.

618

And it's funny, 'cause I have absolutely

zero to do with the RV market, but

619

I've been sat here making little notes

as I've been going along, and a lot

620

of it rings true to what happened in

the UK and to, to where we're at now.

621

And it is slightly different, but

it's still the s- the, from what I

622

understand, 'cause my brother actually

lived in Mississippi, is very similar

623

to what the UK did quite a while back.

624

And I think from the sounds of it,

it's coming down the line for you guys.

625

So with the US, actually just on fuel

prices, we haven't had fuel prices as low

626

as you guys since 1999, even though you're

at the highest it's ever been over there.

627

We haven't had it for 26 years that low.

628

Um, but we, in the UK, we had a huge

caravan market, so s- I, I guess a

629

similar relation to your RV market.

630

Obviously ours are a lot smaller,

but static caravans specifically,

631

um, which was a huge market in

the '20s, '30s, '40s, and then all

632

the way up to the '70s and '80s.

633

Um, and that market has absolutely

changed over the past 20 years, but

634

significantly since kind of pre-COVID,

which is where that was the leisure,

635

hospitality accommodation, that's where

you went on your holidays, you went

636

to different holiday parks, we call

them, uh, which are basically RV parks.

637

Um, and that's where you had

multi-generational families, all

638

sorts of people visiting those.

639

Now what's happened significantly

with them is they, their whole market

640

has changed to the long-term renter.

641

So in the UK we have laws, you, you

… It's weird, you ha- you can live in it

642

for, I think it's 340 days a year, so

they basically have to move out for sort

643

of two weeks and then come back again.

644

But those holiday parks have

really struggled over the past

645

10 to 15 years as the glamping

sector and, uh, short-term rental

646

accommodation has kind of come online.

647

So since the event of, of- sites like

Airbnb, there's been a huge shift in

648

what people not only are traveling for,

so the reasons around the traveling.

649

Um, we're finding a lot of people are

doing multiple shorter trips, occasional

650

based, so anniversary, birthdays,

weddings, those sorts of things, um,

651

as opposed to the longer holiday trips.

652

Because we have the same in the UK

with, you know, the way the market's

653

out at the minute, everything that's

going on in and around with the

654

US and all those sorts of things.

655

So what we're finding here is that

people are maybe canceling booking

656

their specific summer holiday, Easter

holiday, whatever it might be, and

657

opting for the shorter, um, kind of

occasional trips where they are going

658

for a specific occasion, and then they

are selecting, you know, um, either

659

glamping or again, luxury accommodation.

660

And that's what seems to have changed.

661

And I think, again, my understanding

from an, an RV point of view, 'cause

662

I've got, again, friends in the

US, it seems to be a bit of a…

663

If you wanna go away for

the weekend, okay, uh, it…

664

I was talking to a friend of

mine and he put it this way.

665

If he wants to go away for a

weekend in his RV with his family,

666

it takes him three or four hours

to pack everything up on a Friday.

667

He's gotta drive to the campground.

668

By the time he gets there, it's nighttime.

669

Okay, so first day is Saturday morning.

670

Where with something like a short-term

rental accommodation or a glamping site

671

that's an hour or two from your home,

you can finish work on a, on Friday at

672

5:00 PM and you can be sat in a hot tub

for 7:00 PM on a Friday evening 'cause

673

you're just getting in the car with

a, with a travel bag and off you go.

674

Um, so these kind of multiple trips

from an RV point of view seem to

675

be crossing over into the glamping

and, um, short-term rental sector.

676

Brian Searl: Which is what, Scott,

would you agree that like we're

677

kind of seeing that, but just in

the, the younger generation so far?

678

Scott Bahr: Absolutely.

679

And, and it's, it's one of the reasons

for a lot of the, the lack of avidity

680

and attrition that we, we see in

that segment too, um, that the…

681

And there are multiple factors that

contribute to this, and, and Phil can

682

probably attest to it as well, that it,

that convenience factor is, um, is big.

683

But typically, RVing appeals to people

for different reasons than, than that.

684

You know, there's a, there's a, there

are other factors that people will

685

opt for RVing because they know,

they typically know that going in.

686

What we lack a lot of, especially,

um, within the younger generations,

687

is the, um, knowledge, the knowledge

base and experience to, uh, operate

688

an RV and how to, um, you know,

how to drive it, how to park it,

689

just the, the, the base knowledge.

690

And, and I actually have data that

can show that very clearly, um, that,

691

how, how big of a factor that is.

692

But yeah, we absolutely, um, lose,

um, from RVing, the, the idea that

693

you can just fill up a bag with

clothes and end up someplace like,

694

like you said, Darian, a couple hours

you're there soaking in the hot tub.

695

You know?

696

Yeah.

697

There's some appeal to that, um, as well.

698

Um- Well, it's crazy … here in the

US it's a little slightly different

699

just because, you know, people t-

you know, a lot of times want to

700

multiple stops, multiple destinations,

kind of that, the idea that you're

701

self-contained is that appeal.

702

But that, kinda that overnighter

that we used to get a lot of, we

703

lose those to the short-term rental,

uh, whether it's glamping or others.

704

Rafael Correa: Yeah,

from pure convenience.

705

Scott Bahr: Yep.

706

Derry Green: Yeah.

707

It's funny, you said just then, and I

wrote it down here about five minutes ago,

708

I wrote down generational differences.

709

What happened in the UK and, and as

you've just kinda reiterated then, the

710

UK market or the UK caravan/RV type

market, uh, was mainly made up of sales.

711

So that was people buying a static caravan

at a site where they'd go and visit it

712

three, four, five, six times a year.

713

Mm-hmm.

714

So again, a similar sorta model.

715

Now, that group of people who were buying

them, which were usually, typically people

716

between the age of sort of 35 to 55-ish,

that age group has, you know, obviously

717

got older and they still have that stock,

but what we're finding in the UK is, I

718

think as Phil was saying earlier on, new

stock coming to market, the, the, the

719

uptake on sales on that has dipped off a

cliff in the UK over the past 10 years.

720

Because people of my generation, so where

my dad would've had a static caravan or

721

RV, as I've come up, I wouldn't have that.

722

So my generation and then the generations

below are not filling those gaps like the,

723

like the previous kind of 50, 60 years.

724

And I put it here, the generational

differences is, and, and I think that

725

shift in the UK started about, about-

20 years ago, um, but only really

726

came to fruition in the past sort of

10 years, and really importantly, in

727

the past five years, where I would

not go and buy a static caravan or RV.

728

I would rather do multiple holidays

to wherever I wanna go, and that might

729

be locally, it might be nationally,

it might be internationally.

730

Um, and I think that's really gonna

start to hit over the next probably

731

five to 10 years in the US, where like

you've said, somebody who's 18 to 20 now

732

probably won't have been driving their

RV with their dad for the past five or

733

six years or know what to do with it.

734

I think we have a, a similar

situation from the UK here as well

735

Brian Searl: Miguel, what

does that look like in Mexico?

736

I, I don't think you have really had a

developed RV market in Mexico, have you?

737

Miguel Huerta: No, I, because insurance,

it's an issue here in Mexico for RVs.

738

So, uh, the RV market is

pretty non-existent in Mexico.

739

But if I may add what you…

740

Uh, I mean, I think that we're pretty

much aligned even though that we're

741

in different markets, um, both on the

product and, and, and the country.

742

Um, here in Mexico, um, t- tourism

got hit very hard by the World Cup.

743

Um, so for example, glamping, it

had a decrease of 22%, uh, on, uh…

744

That, that was only in

July, uh, in June, sorry.

745

Hotels had a decrease

of, uh, on demand by 30%.

746

Um, with h- with the hotels,

uh, a decrease of 31%.

747

And at the beginning I started to

see, like based on the glamping, uh,

748

product, which is where I, um, I have

more data, and then I realized that

749

i- in Mexico what happened i- is that

consumption bas- basically went downhill.

750

All the major retailers in

Mexico, uh, show negative numbers.

751

Um, th- these retailers that are, that

are listed in the Mexican Stock Exchange,

752

except by one which is, uh, uh, called

OXXO, which is like the Mexican 7-Eleven.

753

Because people, they will go to,

to this convenience store, buy

754

beer, watch the, the World Cup,

and, and party on the streets.

755

Now, um, what I see from, uh, the comments

from everybody is that we are in tough

756

times, and I think that, uh, it's, um,

very responsible to say that, uh, out loud

757

because if we sugarcoat the state of the

industry, um, a lot of our listeners and

758

viewers, um, right now I'm pretty sure

that they are in need of a helping hand.

759

So, um, what I think, or at least what,

what we're, uh, focusing right now, uh,

760

in the Mexican Glamping Association and

in my company is number one, we're paying

761

very close attention to all the expenses.

762

Sadly, we have not been able to hire

as much people as we want because at

763

the end, um, we don't have the money

for it and we need to, to, to survive.

764

Um, and the second one,

it's, uh, demand creation.

765

Because if we think that, uh,

that, that, that we're gonna make

766

it through because of organic

demand, sadly, that's not the case.

767

And I think that that's important

for a lot of people, that they

768

need to go back to basics and even

challenge their perceptions on

769

what used to work back in the day.

770

Uh, it, it was funny because on my way

here, um, I was listening to a podcast

771

with the guy that runs the Savannah

Bananas, y- you know, like, this

772

colorful and cheerful baseball team.

773

And I think that, uh, the industry,

it's on the verge of having people like

774

that reinventing products, reinventing,

um, the demand for their location.

775

Otherwise, it, it will be very hard.

776

And sure, um, I, I've been reading

and listening to a lot of information

777

saying that right now you have to

prime, uh, your ADR and what's not.

778

But I think that right now you need

to take a very close look on your

779

expenses and maybe say, "You know what?

780

Maybe we, we need to decrease our rates."

781

I, I don't like that word because, uh,

I mean, it's very easy to decrease the

782

rates, but very hard to increase them.

783

So be very careful on, on, on that.

784

Um, but demand creation,

it's extremely important.

785

Like, these detox, um, uh, trips that

people are going, you know, uh, where

786

they don't wanna be attached to their

phones, uh, or they don't want their

787

kids to, to, to, to be all the time

watching Netflix and, and being on TikTok.

788

So I mean, that's my advice.

789

I don't know what you

think about that, guys.

790

Brian Searl: Well, I think that's

what, and I'm not put words in

791

your mouth, Derry, but I think

that's what you did, right?

792

Is you created demand with your product.

793

You could have just said like, I had

a great experience with my daughter

794

in the backyard and now I want to

do glamping like everybody else.

795

But you did something different.

796

You created demand and it's

shown in your bookings, right?

797

Derry Green: Yeah, exactly.

798

So when I talk about this business,

there's two things I always say about.

799

One is we are not an

accommodation provider.

800

That's not our job.

801

Our job isn't to provide a hotel room.

802

I'm not the Hilton.

803

What we do is provide experiences.

804

So why is somebody coming?

805

As I said earlier on, the occasion

type stays when they're coming for an

806

anniversary, a wedding, a birthday.

807

Those are special things and

they want memories from that.

808

And how do they create memories?

809

So that's our whole focus has always been

on everything else except for the unit.

810

With glamping, again, I remember going

camping as a kid with my parents.

811

And I distinctly remember we

spent maybe an hour pitching the

812

tent and getting it all set up.

813

And then we walked away.

814

And for two days, we'd swim in a river

or climb a tree or whatever it was.

815

What we didn't do was sit

in a tent for two days.

816

So when it comes to glamping or any other

accommodation, why would accommodation

817

providers think you're just sitting

in a really fancy tent or a really

818

fancy lodge or whatever for two days?

819

That's not what you're there for.

820

You're there to

821

experience things.

822

So that's number one.

823

And then the second thing is,

again, I've talked about it a lot.

824

We are in theory a social media

organization that owns a glamping site.

825

So everything we do is based on how

do we get over to our audience what

826

they're going to experience there.

827

Because attention spans are so

minute now and people, a lot of

828

people need things spelling out.

829

So rather than trying to focus on existing

clients and customers, which we do.

830

You know, we, we, we, in the

UK we take a lot from the hotel

831

chains and that sort of stuff.

832

But what we're ultimately trying

to do, uh, to make a sustainable

833

market, is create a new customer

base, and that's what we do.

834

In the UK, um, the … For example, the

black and ethnic minority communities

835

in the UK are not traditional campers.

836

It's, it, it just isn't.

837

Um, so focusing on those markets and

focusing on reasons why they would

838

wanna come away and what we can offer

those, uh, specific groups has really

839

boosted our occupancy levels ultimately.

840

You know, we're seeing year on year

increase, not only on occupancy

841

because we, y- we are fully booked,

it is what it is, but on inquiries.

842

And on, on year on year it is,

it's just constantly going up,

843

and that's because we're not

focusing on the accommodation side.

844

I think it was, um, Rafael was

saying earlier about the reinvesting

845

in the parks, in the locations.

846

What is it they're gonna

do when they're there?

847

If they're spending a longer amount of

time there, it can't be just a, a hookup.

848

It needs to be, what else is there to do?

849

What are you, uh,

inevitably going there for?

850

Um, and that is usually, or hopefully,

to spend time with family, friends,

851

reconnect, celebrate, these sorts

of things, and you need to have

852

the ability to be able to do that.

853

Um, and that's where short term

accommodation works really,

854

really well for those things.

855

And then longer term accommodation

needs to kind of catch up with

856

those, those sorts of facilities.

857

Brian Searl: Any thoughts on that?

858

Michael Moore: I, I was just gonna add,

I mean, it's similar to what, um, I was

859

reading about hotels where, you know,

besides the reasons we talked about

860

here about, hey, they want, you know,

consumer wants something more affordable,

861

expenses going up, they want the kind of

goodies and perks, uh, with their stay.

862

They want some added value to it,

or at least they wanna feel like

863

they're getting added value to it.

864

And so that's why, again, we've all

touched on it with, with campgrounds

865

especially, is doing everything they can

to show them an experience, you know, and,

866

and make sure they d- they understand,

you know, like Derry said, it's not

867

just a hookup and, like, see you later.

868

Like, they wanna feel good.

869

They want to feel like they're

special, quite honestly.

870

Yeah.

871

And just another, uh, uh, kind of

related note, but in our work with,

872

uh, TACO, with the association, I can

tell you, I've been here 20 years,

873

and we're still sort of, uh, fighting

cities and counties to distinguish

874

between RV park and mobile home park,

because they still don't understand it,

875

and they still lump us all together.

876

And so we, it's a constant sort of, uh,

uh, education for both, you know, the

877

municipalities and the consumer too,

to kind of make sure they understand

878

the difference between what we are and

what, what a mobile home park is, or

879

long-term park is, or what have you.

880

Brian Searl: Are we going to do

two separate sides of the consumer?

881

And again, just intentionally

lumping people into two groups.

882

There's many more, right?

883

But the people who might be pulled

down to the affordability, like you

884

just mentioned, Mike, or yeah, Michael.

885

Can I call you Mike?

886

I don't know if you like that or not.

887

Michael Moore: My dad's Mike,

but he's not here, so go ahead.

888

Brian Searl: Michael, that's,

we're talking to Michael then.

889

Uh, but pulled down into that, or

the people who are either wanting

890

to be pulled up or willing to be

pulled up by the creation of such

891

an experience like Derry built.

892

Michael Moore: Uh, I was

gonna say that, that's,

893

Brian Searl: um- And spend the money,

would give me a reason to spend the money

894

Michael Moore: Well, I was gonna say,

that's kinda where my head was going,

895

was I think you have both tracks going

where, again, it's the affordable sorta

896

option for a lot of folks, and they

kinda want the bare bones, "Hey, I just

897

need a place to stay," that kinda deal.

898

But then literally the polar opposite is

those folks that have the money and have,

899

uh, uh, the time to spend at those sort

of what I'll call elevated experiences.

900

I, I guess for lack of a better term, it's

kind of those middle class parks, uh, that

901

are gonna see, I think, the biggest impact

on, because it's no longer, hey, they're

902

not good enough for a lot of people as

far as the experience, but it's also too

903

much or too expensive for the people that

are looking for the accommodation side.

904

Brian Searl: Yeah.

905

It's the K-shaped economy that we're

going into that's impacting the

906

middle class RV parks, just like it's

impacting the middle class people.

907

Derry Green: I, I absolutely agree.

908

I think there's a, a- again, fundamentally

in the UK, there's a place for your

909

back to basics camping, glamping

type scenarios and the, the kind of

910

elevated side, and that middle bit

is a really sticky bit to sit in.

911

Um, but equally what we're finding from

an experience point of view, people

912

are willing to pay for it and people

are willing- willing to save for it.

913

So I can walk out onto our car park this

evening, and I guarantee there will be

914

a Ferrari or a Lamborghini or something

of that class on that car park, and

915

I equally guarantee there will be a

banger that's rusty and falling to bits.

916

And equally, one person could afford

it to stay here every single day of

917

their life, and the other people can

only afford to come maybe once in a

918

couple of years for a special occasion.

919

And we do have that variety from, from

every class of society that come here.

920

And just on the experience bit,

one that if, we're, funnily

921

enough, 'cause we're doubling down

on it now, it's little things.

922

Because it's not, it's the perceived

value, which is what Michael said.

923

It's not physical value, so we're not

saying you need, you know, everybody needs

924

to have, you know, gold bedding and, and

champagne on tap and things like that.

925

But it's that perceived value when

customers arrive, and it's, it's the

926

experience from when people ultimately

find you, whether that be on social

927

media or any other form of marketing,

all the way through to when they arrive.

928

It's that customer journey starts

at that acquisition point, and it,

929

it almost finishes once they arrive.

930

Now, most people start the customer

journey when they arrive, and you're

931

already kind of too late then.

932

So we had, last year we in, um-

put in a guest services building

933

at each of the locations.

934

Little kind of small office where

guests come and have a meeting

935

point, and when they arrive we

give them a glass of prosecco.

936

It, the bottle costs us, like, $4 and

we get maybe 10 glasses out of each.

937

It's costing nothing.

938

So when they arrive, they get a

glass of prosecco and we check them

939

in, and al- instantly they feel like

this is the best place in the world.

940

That little touch has made … Our,

our repeat bookings are up 72% on last

941

year because of that one little detail.

942

So we're doubling down on it now, and

we've cleared about a quarter of an

943

acre to make a whole new guest services,

reception, concierge type scenario.

944

Because, as we all know,

first impressions count.

945

That's what's important to people.

946

And if you're there for, you know,

we can focus on the units and we

947

can focus on the infrastructure.

948

Um, but once you're at a certain level,

there's not a lot more you can do with

949

it, you know, unless we go to adding

things like swimming pools, tennis

950

courts, those sorts of facilities

which is your larger infrastructure.

951

On the smaller sites or the smaller

side, it's these, these little touches

952

that make a huge difference and it's

953

Like I say, when you go on holiday,

you will never tell me what color the

954

curtains were or what the carpet was

like, but you will tell me about the

955

person on reception who really helped

or the person who served you, you the

956

drinks and they remembered your name.

957

Those sorts of things are what are

important in this market, rather

958

than the big statement pieces.

959

Rafael Correa: Derry is, uh-

960

Scott Bahr: That's a perfect-

961

Rafael Correa: Sorry,

go ahead, Scott, please.

962

Scott Bahr: I, I was gonna

say, no, that's perfect.

963

That's a perfect sum- summation

of hospitality, is something that-

964

Yeah … we talk about a lot, you

know, that your goal is to have

965

them talking about those things.

966

Yeah.

967

All those things that you just mentioned,

and never mention, you know, kind of the,

968

the, the other stuff, including the price.

969

Yeah.

970

So that's

971

all I wanted to say.

972

But yeah.

973

Go ahead, bro.

974

Sorry.

975

Rafael Correa: I just wanted to know if

pickleball is big in England, that's all.

976

Derry Green: Yeah.

977

They, they are popping up everywhere.

978

Yeah.

979

It's, uh, it is, it's funny

enough, there's one locally.

980

That's, I say one locally.

981

I think there's about 10

in planning at the moment.

982

Uh, but yeah, it's becoming a huge-

983

Rafael Correa: The wave is there too, yeah

984

… Derry Green: yeah, huge

wave across the UK.

985

Rafael Correa: I was gonna say,

don't build a tennis court.

986

Build pickleball courts.

987

That's all.

988

Yeah.

989

I've, I've built, I've built dozens

of them in the past few years.

990

Derry Green: Oh, the must.

991

Brian Searl: Sometimes Derry

doesn't need to build anything.

992

He's 100% occupied for a few years.

993

He's good.

994

He just needed the prosecco.

995

Derry Green: Yeah.

996

So we're, we're currently fully

997

Rafael Correa: That's awesome.

998

Miguel Huerta: But I think that Derry

is, uh, and correct me if I'm wrong,

999

but I think that Derry is packed

because he, he does an amazing job by

00:57:11,534 --> 00:57:14,354

promoting, uh, his prop- uh, his property.

00:57:14,704 --> 00:57:16,104

And I think, and I…

00:57:16,154 --> 00:57:19,404

It, it was very interesting and

enlightening, uh, the insight that

00:57:19,504 --> 00:57:22,974

Scott provided were like the…

00:57:23,134 --> 00:57:26,854

I mean, the, the young generation

didn't know how to fix a toilet.

00:57:26,894 --> 00:57:30,164

They didn't know how to drive a, a, a RV.

00:57:30,534 --> 00:57:38,414

Um, for example, in our case, we hired

a, a, a person who's in charge of doing

00:57:38,744 --> 00:57:46,544

social media content, and that it's

doing like this, um, ex- uh, ex- uh,

00:57:47,284 --> 00:57:52,134

th- this FAQ type of videos, you know,

where, okay, how do I arrive there?

00:57:52,144 --> 00:57:55,204

How do I arrive there, uh,

by public transportation?

00:57:55,494 --> 00:58:00,794

Um, I know those things that

might be overlooked when you are

00:58:00,864 --> 00:58:02,514

taking a look on a P&L, you know?

00:58:02,944 --> 00:58:04,814

Uh, so it, it, it, it…

00:58:04,814 --> 00:58:11,834

I think that this unreasonable hospitality

at the end, uh, sure, it focuses a lot on

00:58:11,834 --> 00:58:17,874

the product, but this is marketing, uh,

101, where there's five piece pricing,

00:58:17,944 --> 00:58:22,714

uh, promotion, the, um, the product,

the, the, the location and, and the

00:58:22,734 --> 00:58:26,164

people, um, that you need to focus on.

00:58:26,434 --> 00:58:28,924

So let's go back to, to basics, I guess.

00:58:28,944 --> 00:58:29,334

Rafael Correa: I, I…

00:58:29,364 --> 00:58:30,074

One thing I would just…

00:58:30,104 --> 00:58:33,764

I know we're kind of running out of time,

but, uh, I think there is one, in my

00:58:33,764 --> 00:58:36,734

opinion, this is just maybe my personal

experience, but I believe it's gonna

00:58:36,734 --> 00:58:41,210

be prevalent in a lot of young people,

but- Uh, you mentioned something about

00:58:41,210 --> 00:58:43,660

people don't feel comfortable fixing

it, and RVs are intimidating, right?

00:58:43,660 --> 00:58:46,530

There's so many buttons and switches

and this, that, and the other.

00:58:46,530 --> 00:58:51,800

And so one of the things that has changed

for me with AI, you know, Google Gemini

00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,090

is, like, on speed dial on my phone, and I

have f- never felt more empowered to take

00:58:56,090 --> 00:59:00,550

on, like, maintenance and home improvement

projects as I am today, because I can

00:59:00,550 --> 00:59:04,940

literally, like, take a picture and send

it to Gemini and be like, "What is this?

00:59:05,570 --> 00:59:07,440

What button do I push?"

00:59:07,450 --> 00:59:07,910

You know?

00:59:08,270 --> 00:59:08,560

What…

00:59:08,610 --> 00:59:10,200

And so, like, I, I…

00:59:10,860 --> 00:59:17,880

That, that, that not knowing factor feels

that less distant for me than it ever has,

00:59:17,890 --> 00:59:21,640

and I feel like that this next generation,

it's gonna be, you know, an answer is a,

00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:24,170

a picture and a phone connection away.

00:59:24,190 --> 00:59:28,810

And, and I, and I hope that's good for

the RV industry, is what I'm saying at

00:59:28,810 --> 00:59:32,680

the end of the day, because it'll take

some of that mystique and fear out of it.

00:59:33,130 --> 00:59:36,400

Other than parking it, 'cause that's,

that, that's always gonna suck.

00:59:37,460 --> 00:59:38,216

It would be so fun.

00:59:38,216 --> 00:59:38,360

I,

00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:39,080

Brian Searl: I don't think you're wrong.

00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,550

Rafael Correa: But it's also part

of the experience, so you know.

00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:43,780

Brian Searl: I don't think you're

wrong, but I think that that also

00:59:43,780 --> 00:59:46,390

requires a certain type of person

with curiosity, and, and I know

00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:47,570

we're gonna run maybe a couple

00:59:47,570 --> 00:59:50,140

Rafael Correa: But I, I'm coming from

the perspective of somebody who would,

00:59:50,140 --> 00:59:51,950

like, never dare to fix anything.

00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,170

Like, I am the most non-handy person.

00:59:54,370 --> 00:59:55,710

I don't know if you can

tell by looking at me.

00:59:55,710 --> 00:59:55,854

I'm sure you can.

00:59:55,854 --> 00:59:57,850

Brian Searl: But you're obsessed

with Claude, so there's that flip

00:59:57,850 --> 01:00:00,400

where you're just like, "I wanna

know what AI can do for me," right?

01:00:00,670 --> 01:00:01,140

You're curious about it.

01:00:01,140 --> 01:00:02,370

Rafael Correa: Yeah, and that's

what I've been sh- I've been

01:00:02,370 --> 01:00:05,510

blown away of how it can, like,

step-by-step me through something.

01:00:05,510 --> 01:00:08,670

And, and, and the reason I just bring

this up is 'cause what Miguel said and,

01:00:08,670 --> 01:00:12,390

and because of the, the, the RV and the

maintenance and the intimidation factor.

01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:14,330

So, like, anyway, neither here nor there.

01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,380

I know we're kinda running out of time,

and I got, I got another thing to go to.

01:00:17,380 --> 01:00:19,990

But it's, uh … The world is shifting.

01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:24,530

That is the, that is an absolute fact,

and, and we have to be cognizant and

01:00:24,530 --> 01:00:27,360

aware of it, and I … That's why I

appreciate this opportunity to connect

01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,270

with these great minds and great people

to hear different perspectives, because

01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,100

that's where, that's the … This is all

the context that I'm putting in my own

01:00:34,100 --> 01:00:36,550

little, you know, old school AI up here.

01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:37,100

Uh,

01:00:39,230 --> 01:00:40,940

Brian Searl: Yeah, if you need

to, if anybody needs to jump off,

01:00:40,950 --> 01:00:42,030

please go ahead and jump off.

01:00:42,030 --> 01:00:43,870

Just say bye and, and we'll see you later.

01:00:43,870 --> 01:00:44,650

I'm gonna just take-

01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:45,180

Scott Bahr: Bye everyone

01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:47,990

… Brian Searl: one more question

for you, uh, if you don't

01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:48,880

mind, if you have a second.

01:00:49,370 --> 01:00:54,370

Um, just p- piggybacking off, off of

what Miguel said, like I think I know

01:00:54,370 --> 01:00:56,190

how good you are at various social media.

01:00:56,190 --> 01:00:57,820

We've talked about that

on a previous show here.

01:00:58,380 --> 01:01:01,840

Uh, you have the chops to do all that

stuff and put together a great, you know,

01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,970

bar none probably, uh, that I've seen.

01:01:05,940 --> 01:01:09,920

And so Miguel is right, the basics of

social media need to be there, but also

01:01:10,010 --> 01:01:11,370

you have to have something to promote too.

01:01:11,370 --> 01:01:14,710

You can't just be going on social

media and promoting the same

01:01:14,710 --> 01:01:15,940

thing as everybody else, can you?

01:01:15,940 --> 01:01:18,350

You have, it has to be both

things, not just one, right?

01:01:19,290 --> 01:01:20,060

Derry Green: Yeah, exactly.

01:01:20,070 --> 01:01:25,930

So I, I learned very, very early on

that marketing was the most import- most

01:01:25,930 --> 01:01:27,530

important part of the business by far.

01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:28,560

Because you can have…

01:01:28,990 --> 01:01:32,950

You know, I know of some absolutely

amazing locations in the UK and in

01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:37,330

the US, you know, the most phenomenal

units, the, the, the best views.

01:01:37,750 --> 01:01:41,544

And I can book every one of them

today because they are Absolutely

01:01:41,594 --> 01:01:43,594

useless at marketing what they do.

01:01:43,624 --> 01:01:47,854

They might be great designers, great

builders, but marketing fundamentally is

01:01:47,854 --> 01:01:49,704

what is at the heart of every business.

01:01:50,124 --> 01:01:51,334

And you're exactly right.

01:01:51,334 --> 01:01:55,404

What's happened in the UK, funnily

enough, and I see it in the US a lot

01:01:55,434 --> 01:02:00,504

as well, people focused around the

accommodation, the units, the facilities.

01:02:00,554 --> 01:02:07,134

2023, um, those three years,

01:02:07,504 --> 01:02:08,884

that's what people wanted to see.

01:02:08,954 --> 01:02:10,304

The- 'cause there was big differences.

01:02:10,304 --> 01:02:14,064

One person would have whatever, a pop-up

tent, and another one would have a

01:02:14,064 --> 01:02:15,834

tree house with a hot tub and a sauna.

01:02:16,024 --> 01:02:17,794

So there was big

differences in the market.

01:02:18,294 --> 01:02:24,514

differences aren't as big, um, and

01:02:24,554 --> 01:02:29,304

with things like AI and Photoshop

and lots of other things, I can make

01:02:29,324 --> 01:02:30,764

anything look like anything now.

01:02:30,814 --> 01:02:35,134

So those days of just kind of promoting

a product as such are kind of gone.

01:02:35,454 --> 01:02:39,214

Um, and you see that with

huge brands and small brands.

01:02:39,214 --> 01:02:42,644

What is resonating with people

ultimately is your story.

01:02:43,064 --> 01:02:43,924

Now, I…

01:02:43,924 --> 01:02:46,614

You could take 10 glamping sites,

and we could all have the same

01:02:46,824 --> 01:02:50,194

physical product, but we've got 10

different stories, I guarantee you.

01:02:50,554 --> 01:02:54,004

And that's what's, you know, what,

what, what really kind of captivated

01:02:54,004 --> 01:02:56,734

people with, with us wasn't…

01:02:56,774 --> 01:03:00,304

It, it was the units to some extent,

although we weren't the best units.

01:03:00,344 --> 01:03:02,544

I still don't build the

best units in the market.

01:03:02,584 --> 01:03:05,094

I know of way better sites than mine.

01:03:05,394 --> 01:03:07,544

Um, but the story's captivating.

01:03:07,554 --> 01:03:09,304

The reason I do it is captivating.

01:03:09,304 --> 01:03:14,324

What I do on a daily basis is interesting,

and getting people to buy into you as

01:03:14,324 --> 01:03:16,364

a brand is really, really important.

01:03:16,364 --> 01:03:21,804

And again, uh, in the UK, everybody's

individual owner operators, very small

01:03:21,804 --> 01:03:24,504

niche businesses, so it's very easy to do.

01:03:24,764 --> 01:03:26,074

It's very difficult for Mr.

01:03:26,074 --> 01:03:30,214

Hilton to speak to his guests

every day, to be on reception,

01:03:30,224 --> 01:03:31,254

to do those sorts of things.

01:03:31,254 --> 01:03:32,254

It's just not gonna happen.

01:03:32,524 --> 01:03:36,284

But me, as a founder, I can still

go onto our social media platforms

01:03:36,284 --> 01:03:37,554

and talk with our audience.

01:03:37,554 --> 01:03:38,814

I can speak to our guests.

01:03:38,814 --> 01:03:40,204

I can go out to reception.

01:03:40,204 --> 01:03:41,644

I can answer the phone.

01:03:41,644 --> 01:03:45,624

I can do all these things even

though we are the largest in the UK.

01:03:46,374 --> 01:03:50,714

I can still do all this because

automation, Claude, ChatGPT can

01:03:50,714 --> 01:03:54,224

take away the bulk work, which

you don't need to focus on.

01:03:54,284 --> 01:03:59,234

And ultimately, we're all trying to market

ourselves as opposed to the business now.

01:03:59,404 --> 01:04:01,214

That's what is really, really important.

01:04:01,454 --> 01:04:07,754

I did, uh, Dragon's Den, which is Shark

Tank in the US, and the whole point

01:04:07,794 --> 01:04:12,864

of me doing that wasn't for me to get

bookings and sell my glamping units.

01:04:13,104 --> 01:04:15,854

The point of me doing that

was just a marketing exercise.

01:04:15,884 --> 01:04:19,864

It was giving me an opportunity to

speak to an audience about what I

01:04:19,864 --> 01:04:22,204

believe in, what is important to me.

01:04:22,534 --> 01:04:27,034

And when we look at market, at, at,

at booking trends and spending trends,

01:04:27,484 --> 01:04:34,784

people are way more, um, prolific in

spending money on things that either

01:04:34,794 --> 01:04:39,644

resonant, resonate with their core

values, so what they believe in, what

01:04:39,684 --> 01:04:43,704

they think, those sorts of things, or

ultimately that their, the money that

01:04:43,704 --> 01:04:46,314

they're spending is going to a good use.

01:04:46,344 --> 01:04:50,464

You know, we, we never feel good about

staying at a Hilton and giving Mr.

01:04:50,464 --> 01:04:53,144

Hilton another couple of hundred

dollars to add to his 200

01:04:53,204 --> 01:04:53,994

billion, or whatever he's got.

01:04:53,994 --> 01:04:58,874

But if you go to a, you know, a local

bakery, and there's a little lady

01:04:58,874 --> 01:05:02,554

there who's making cakes or bread

or whatever, you feel good about

01:05:02,554 --> 01:05:04,494

spending that $10 with that firm.

01:05:04,494 --> 01:05:07,944

So that's, again, those things

are really important now.

01:05:07,944 --> 01:05:11,924

There was a, a huge push from a

sustainability point of view, so a su-

01:05:11,984 --> 01:05:17,224

you know, a kind of green credentials

and your people being, um, really

01:05:17,224 --> 01:05:18,564

conscious about the environment.

01:05:18,584 --> 01:05:23,464

But that also flows over to not only

what you're spending the money on,

01:05:23,464 --> 01:05:24,554

but who you're spending it with.

01:05:24,704 --> 01:05:27,094

So like I say, the, everybody's

got their own story.

01:05:27,324 --> 01:05:27,754

There is…

01:05:28,044 --> 01:05:29,604

And I certainly wouldn't be…

01:05:29,614 --> 01:05:32,864

If I started today, I wouldn't

be marketing glamping units.

01:05:32,913 --> 01:05:37,624

I'd be marketing why you should come with

me on my glamping journey, on my glamping

01:05:37,624 --> 01:05:39,704

experience, on my glamping adventure.

01:05:42,278 --> 01:05:42,858

Brian Searl: Well said.

01:05:44,088 --> 01:05:44,148

Rafael Correa: Well said.

01:05:45,058 --> 01:05:48,318

Brian Searl: I don't know if I copied Raf

or Raf copied me there, but, uh, okay.

01:05:48,338 --> 01:05:49,618

So let's, let's wrap this up.

01:05:49,618 --> 01:05:50,548

We're a couple minutes over.

01:05:50,978 --> 01:05:55,038

Um, Michael, final thoughts and any,

and where can they find out more about

01:05:55,048 --> 01:05:57,618

just, if you wanna promote the TACO

Association, if you wanna promote

01:05:57,618 --> 01:05:59,668

AGS, whatever you'd like to promote.

01:05:59,668 --> 01:06:03,128

Michael Moore: Yeah, no, I, I, the final

thought I think would be for RV parks,

01:06:03,128 --> 01:06:05,728

you know, a lot of the stuff Derry

was saying for the glamping units, RV

01:06:05,728 --> 01:06:08,188

parks can do a lot of things, too- Yeah

01:06:08,198 --> 01:06:09,988

that don't cost anything, you know?

01:06:09,988 --> 01:06:14,148

I mean, I remember the first sort of

example I heard of that was, again, 20

01:06:14,148 --> 01:06:17,618

years ago when I started, and it was

something as simple as just, you know,

01:06:17,618 --> 01:06:22,088

a, a staff or the front office person

guiding the person in the rig to their

01:06:22,088 --> 01:06:25,458

site, brushing off the pedestal, and

like that's it, you know, brushing