Listen to the latest episode of MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

The May 13th, 2026 episode of MC Fireside Chats, hosted by Brian Searl, focused heavily on the evolution of experiential outdoor hospitality and the unique ways campground owners and resort developers are crafting immersive guest experiences.

The conversation opened with Jeremy Johnson of Kona Hills Campground, who questioned the current state of dynamic pricing in the outdoor hospitality sector. Jeremy pointed out that traditional software relies heavily on basic yield management and often fails to account for the unique characteristics of individual properties or offer dynamic pricing floors based on seasons. He also noted the value of changing seasons in his own life, which naturally force a slower, more deliberate pace.

Zach Stoltenberg from LJA expanded on this pricing discussion, explaining that traditional hotel pricing models rely on clear demand drivers, like concerts or conventions, that are much harder to measure for purely experience-based stays. Zach also highlighted a growing industry trend toward non-RV accommodations like glamping tents and park models, and shared his excitement about a current design project in Utah where accommodation units are being excavated directly out of solid rock.

Special guest Travis Chambers from OutpostX then introduced his concept of building immersive, movie-set micro-resorts designed to completely disconnect guests from the modern world. Having achieved high occupancy at his Utah location, Travis shared his plans for an Avatar-inspired jungle resort in Puerto Rico.

He detailed his successful marketing strategy of utilizing medium-sized travel influencers rather than traditional ads, and discussed the logistical challenges of remote builds, which he solves by using a live-in, mobile construction crew. Finally, special guest Joy de Vos of Foxtrot Dairy Store and Campground shared her highly unique approach to hospitality through her working dairy farm in British Columbia.

Driven by her background as a 4-H leader and a desire to reconnect city dwellers with agriculture, Joy offers educational stays where guests can interact with farm animals, shop at an 1800s-style general store, and even milk cows. She also outlined her long-term vision of securing capital to build a farm-themed glamping village.

Ultimately, the entire panel agreed that the future of outdoor hospitality lies in storytelling and providing highly authentic, non-commoditized experiences, whether that means surviving a cinematic jungle adventure or learning where ice cream comes from on a family farm.

Brian Searl: 00:00:45

With Insider Perks and Modern Campground, excited to be here with you.

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Back from the Florida Keys,

my dog is laying next to me.

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She missed me for 12 days or however

long I was gone, so we have more

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separation anxiety than normal.

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But excited to be back here for

another episode of Fireside Chats.

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We got Zach, recurring guest, Jeremy,

recurring guest, Travis as a special

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guest, and Joy as our special guest today.

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I want to go around the room

and just introduce everybody.

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Zach, you want to start?

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Zach Stoltenberg: Sure.

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My name is Zach Stoltenberg.

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I'm the Associate Principal for

Architecture with LJA Engineering.

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We help people design, build, permit,

and entitle outdoor hospitality.

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So glamping, camping, luxury RV parks,

boutique hotels, and experiential stays.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Welcome back, Zach.

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Appreciate you being here.

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Jeremy?

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Jeremy Johnson: Hey

guys, my name is Jeremy.

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I'm one of the owners of Kona Hills

Campground in Marquette, Michigan.

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Actually on site today, getting

ready to open next weekend.

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We finally got bright sunny weather

above 50 degrees in Northern

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Michigan, so I'm feeling good.

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Brian Searl: It's warm here too.

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Yeah, we got lucked out.

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Although it's supposed to be

cold this weekend, so we'll see

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for the holiday up here anyway.

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Joy?

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Joy de Vos: Hi, my name is Joy de

Vos and I'm from British Columbia.

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We opened up our campground this year

and we're looking at trying to give

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people the experience on a dairy farm.

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Brian Searl: Welcome, Joy.

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Is it going to be cold

over there in BC like us?

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Is it going to be like nine

here for the holiday weekend?

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Joy de Vos: I think it's

around 10 and it's cloudy.

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Yeah, this is not my background.

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I would have liked to have had my

farm background, but I'll just go

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with your pre-made avatar here.

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Brian Searl: Travis,

last but not least, sir.

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Travis Chambers: Hey,

Travis Chambers here.

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Company is Outpost X and we build

immersive adventure hotels or micro

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resorts, not sure what to call them.

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But we're here today

in Rincon, Puerto Rico.

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We're building an avatar-inspired

project in our jungle here.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Excited to learn more about that, Travis.

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Thanks for being here.

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I appreciate it.

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So normally how we start the show,

everybody knows, or Jeremy and Zach

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know, we just toss it to you guys.

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Is there anything that you guys have

felt has come across your desk in

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the last few weeks since we've been

together on this specific show that

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you think is worthy of talking about?

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Jeremy Johnson: Man, I don't know if

it's just my feed showing it to me,

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but I feel like everybody seems to

be harping on dynamic pricing lately.

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That seems to be such a big

thing that: 2026

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I don't know if anybody here has

utilized it in their projects yet.

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Brian Searl: So here's a question.

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Are we talking about real dynamic

pricing or are we talking about

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what the campground industry has,

which is basically yield management?

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Jeremy Johnson: I think that's

also the consensus from everybody

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that I'm talking to or everybody

that I'm seeing in my feed.

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Everybody's saying turning on PriceLabs

or turning on dynamic pricing in

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Newbook isn't quite cutting it anymore.

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There's a manual process behind

all of it that most people

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aren't fully exploring, it seems.

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Brian Searl: Where do you think,

Jeremy, as an owner of a campground

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obviously, what do you think is missing?

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What do you think is the biggest

gap between where we need to go?

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Because there are steps, right?

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We're not going to get to Disney

tomorrow or Delta Airlines tomorrow.

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But where's the step the industry

needs to take to get us from where

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we are now to where we should be?

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Jeremy Johnson: On the campground

side, it's hard for me to say because

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we use Parc as our PMS and they just

introduced flexible pricing across

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dates, but they don't have any dynamic

pricing or dynamic pricing integrations.

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I'm also very rustic, as you know, Brian.

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So I don't have a lot of amenities.

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A base price works really easy for me.

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I don't need to go up or down a

whole lot compared to somebody

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with maybe higher demand or more

amenities or different site types.

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So it's hard for me to say, but I

think the one thing that I've noticed

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on my end, whether it's with Airbnb

or even thinking about the campground,

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is there's not a lot of consideration

for my individual properties.

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You can set a base floor, but

you can't set a dynamic floor.

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I would like to be able to set

a dynamic floor based on the

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season, where most software just

lets you set one single floor.

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So I think taking into account more of

the uniqueness of your property and not

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just a single equation would be really

helpful with a lot of these softwares.

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Brian Searl: Zach, anybody

else have anything to add?

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Travis, Joy?

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Zach Stoltenberg: I think some of

that is still coming out of the

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influence of traditional hospitality.

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All those systems and mechanisms,

the booking software, they're

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built for that traditional model.

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Everything about outdoor hospitality

is so unique and different.

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Looking at Travis's property, even

with different seasons, I think

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his demand is always there because

it's such a unique property.

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I think traditional hotels, their

demand drivers are typically events.

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Maybe there's a concert, maybe

there's a convention, a gathering,

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a meetup, something like that, and

they'll of course raise prices because

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they know there's more demand on

those particular event weekends.

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But I think there's not a good way to

measure those demand drivers when it

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comes from that experiential perspective.

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The other thing I think to answer your

first question, Brian, that I noticed,

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we're coming off of back-to-back

conventions with the Texas Association

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of Campground Owners, the TACO event, and

then the Florida and Alabama convention.

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The thing that we heard kind of

harped on repeatedly at both of those

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events was that campground owners

need to be paying attention to non-RV.

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With the RV market kind of stabilizing,

softening a little bit, there's a big

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push right now into cabins, park models,

glamping tents, other accommodation

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options for all those people who want

to come and have that camping experience

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but don't necessarily own an RV.

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Brian Searl: How do we, and maybe

we don't want to take this over the

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whole show and go down this direction,

but it's just interesting to me.

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Is it possible to build a dynamic pricing

model for experiences or experiential?

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To measure what the guest is not only

experiencing in the accommodation,

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but what they're feeling, how their

stay goes, what the landscaping is,

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everything that you do, Zach, to

design the resorts, everything that

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Travis does with the accommodations,

everything Jeremy does from operations

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that feed into that experience.

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Or is that unnecessary?

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Zach Stoltenberg: I

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think that's the rub here, right?

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That's the challenge is how do you,

what's the data measurement, the metric

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that you would use to drive that dynamic

pricing when it's experience-based?

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Brian Searl: Anybody have any ideas?

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Travis, you have an idea?

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You build...

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Travis Chambers: Yeah, I'm

not a dynamic pricing expert.

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Brian Searl: No, but you're

an accommodation expert.

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You're an experience guy, right?

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Travis Chambers: Yeah.

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I actually just texted my business

partner to ask him if we do it.

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I don't know if we have a

software running, I'll ask him.

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I know we were doing it manually,

but most of our demand is driven by

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marketing and influencers and stuff.

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So I don't know if dynamic

helps us a little bit less.

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I know Ben Wolff does a ton of it.

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He talks about it all the time.

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So I'm waiting on an answer

from my partner on that.

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Brian Searl: In the meantime, while you

wait on the answer from your partner,

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tell us what you're building, Travis.

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Travis Chambers: Yeah, so we're building

these, basically they're movie set hotels.

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So they're highly experiential.

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We're trying to pull that lever as much

as possible, and experiential hospitality

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is kind of a growing niche right now.

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So

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when you enter the project,

you're entering a movie scene.

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There's a whole story, there's a

podcast that you listen to on the way

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there with dialogue and characters

and plot lines and backstories.

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You get to the project, you

enter this super themed unit.

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We try to remove all of your

connections to the modern world,

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to your life, and you're just in

this 48-hour kind of experience.

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It's almost like the movie version

if you were going to go train with

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samurai or go in the Amazon rainforest

with a tribe or go on a safari.

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We're trying to create that

level of immersive experience.

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So we have art cars that

you can drive around.

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There's an audio tour with historical

signs throughout the property

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of things that are not real,

they're just our fictional world.

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It's a choose your own adventure place.

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There's a cantina with

mocktails that you can make.

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There's an earth lodge that's a Moroccan

interior with mint tea and all these

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random delicacies and snacks that we

made up that are part of our culture.

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But it's cool.

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We're mixing a lot of things together.

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It's like a landscape hotel, it's like

an Airbnb, it's like a resort, but not.

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So it's actually difficult to explain

exactly what it is, but it's like

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a movie set kind of experience.

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And now here in Puerto Rico, we're

doing this avatar-inspired experience.

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And so you arrive at this jungle

trading post, right, that's

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hidden into this jungle here.

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This old kind of colonial

thing that's happening here.

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And then you descend down into

the jungle to ancient times.

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And we're going to have a lighting

design, projection mapping where

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the whole jungle comes alive, and

you have this art walk experience.

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And then there's waterfalls

down at the bottom with lagoons.

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So we're just trying to create

this magic, kind of surreal

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cinematic experience for people.

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Brian Searl: Is it fair to say that then

you're basically putting someone in a

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personalized movie of their own making?

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Travis Chambers: Yeah.

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It's hard to explain.

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I'm still working on the pitch.

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Brian Searl: I like that.

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I like a challenge like that, right?

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Because you're creating your own

thing that hasn't been done before in

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the ways that you've been doing it.

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And I think that innovation is

probably sorely needed in the

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outdoor hospitality industry.

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Travis Chambers: Yeah, so

far it seems to be working.

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We opened Outpost X Utah two years ago.

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We've had 87% occupancy, $441 ADR.

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And so we'll see how it

goes here in Puerto Rico.

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Brian Searl: How do you do marketing

to the consumer who is unfamiliar

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with a product like yours?

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Like obviously you can say all the

things you just told us, right?

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But how do you convince the guest

who's never experienced something like

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yours that it's worth the $441 ADR or

whatever it is to come and do all that?

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Travis Chambers: Yeah, so our project

in Utah is three hours from Vegas and

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an hour and 45 minutes west of Zion.

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So it's absolutely in

the middle of nowhere.

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And we wanted to do this experiment.

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Can we get someone to go

in the middle of nowhere?

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Can we pull that off?

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The thing that's worked has been

medium-sized travel influencers.

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And these are people who just

find experiences and explain

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them to their audience.

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It's done really well.

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I'd say we've spent maybe $30,000 total

in two years on influencers to do about

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250 million views on social media.

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And to our knowledge, we're the most

viewed hospitality product in Utah.

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Brian Searl: Something to

hang your hat on for sure.

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Especially with all the national parks

there and all the amazing geography.

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Zach, you have any questions for Travis?

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Zach Stoltenberg: One, I

love that you're in Rincon.

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I actually spent Christmas a year

ago in Rincon at Crash Boat Beach

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and I love that area of Puerto Rico.

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It's absolutely incredible and the

people there are absolutely wonderful.

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That's pretty exciting.

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I'm anxious to see you focusing on that.

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Talk a little bit about just some of

the challenges of those remote sites.

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Solving some of the problems of

utilities, of infrastructure, of

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getting trades to come out to be able

to actually do work on the property.

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Is it bringing a crew in or

is it sourcing it locally?

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Because I think you're doing

something that is amazing and

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wonderful, but everybody would

be doing it if it was easy.

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And I know that it's not easy.

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I know that you've taken honestly

probably one of the more difficult

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paths in order to get there.

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So maybe just tell us a little bit

about what that journey's been like

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and your approach to it and some of

the things that have worked for you.

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Travis Chambers: Yeah, thanks Zach.

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Yeah, we've tried just about everything.

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Hiring a builder, we've

tried getting local people.

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So where we've landed is we now have

a mobile construction crew, people who

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are willing to travel and live on site.

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Generally that's been the best for us.

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That requires a lot of hands-on

management and a lot of planning.

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It's not maybe the easiest way

to do it, but it's definitely the

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most cost-efficient way to do it.

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And so we've got 25 people living

here on the job site right now.

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And I'll actually show you, we've just

rolled out all this prefab housing,

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basically just air-conditioned units.

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And then we've got these

showers and bathrooms.

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And the advantage of that is a lot

of this infrastructure for the crew,

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we end up reusing for staff to live

on site and for our laundry room

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and back of house, things like that.

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That seems to be going well.

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And in Puerto Rico is

an additional challenge.

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There's not a lot of builders,

there's not a lot of laborers

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in general in Puerto Rico.

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They're really hard to get.

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So just bringing people from

the mainland has been huge.

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We already did the test experiment with

a lot of locals and things and they were

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pretty good, but it was just a little bit

more difficult, not moving quite as quick.

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Brian Searl: Anybody else

have any questions for Travis?

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Joy de Vos: I'm curious, how

did you come up with this idea

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of doing what you're doing?

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Because it sounds really exciting.

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Travis Chambers: I had a

film production company.

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We were making hundreds of commercials a

year for Facebook, Instagram, YouTube ads.

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And one day we were

throwing away a film set.

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It was a $50,000 film set

and it broke my heart.

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And I thought, I would sleep in

this film set, especially if it was

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out in the wilderness somewhere.

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And so I sold that production company and

there were some other macro trends too.

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I used to work at 20th Century Fox

and I saw that the movie industry

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is reducing pretty quickly.

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And I thought the digital age maybe

has reached its peak and maybe we're

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going to go back to the physical in

real life experiences or alternate

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reality even, you could call it,

like slightly augmented reality.

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So I got really interested in that and

thought maybe that's where things are

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going to go with AI and AI robotics.

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People are not going to be working

on their computers as much.

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There's hopefully going to be a

lot of abundance, hopefully a lot

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of mobility, personal aircraft.

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So I imagine people are going to want

to spend their time in really beautiful

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places with unique experiences.

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So I'm just really bullish

on hospitality in general.

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That's why I just pivoted this direction.

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And it was really interesting too.

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Marc Andreessen, he's one of the most

prolific venture capitalists of all

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time, he tweeted actually last week.

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He said, "I co-sign."

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And the tweet was, "As abundant things

become more abundant, the things that

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are going to be in demand are things that

are difficult to have an abundance of."

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Hotels, experiences, community.

289

: 00:16:50

And so I feel like that's

what we're all a part of.

290

: 00:16:52

And I just feel like this

niche is going to grow.

291

: 00:16:54

So I just wanted to do my own

little type of thing with it.

292

: 00:17:01

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, we've talked

about that on the show before.

293

: 00:17:02

Like how I think outdoor hospitality,

and I think many people agree with me,

294

: 00:17:05

that outdoor hospitality is perfectly

positioned for what's going to come.

295

: 00:17:08

Because you only have so many

rivers and so many forests and

296

: 00:17:10

so many trees to sit next to.

297

: 00:17:12

And you can't duplicate that in

any kind of AI virtual whatever.

298

: 00:17:15

People want to touch, they want

to feel, they want to smell.

299

: 00:17:18

People have been disconnected from that

stuff I think over the last 15 plus

300

: 00:17:22

years as we've had phones in our hands.

301

: 00:17:23

And I was telling my girlfriend

when we were out and down in the

302

: 00:17:27

Keys, like there's just not an

opportunity to be bored anymore.

303

: 00:17:31

And so you don't notice the waves, you

don't notice the ocean, you don't notice

304

: 00:17:34

the osprey, you don't notice the, right?

305

: 00:17:36

But that is going to be I think extremely

coveted in the future we're headed toward.

306

: 00:17:40

And I think all of us are perfectly

positioned to take advantage of it.

307

: 00:17:45

Brian Searl: So are you...

308

: 00:17:47

if let's say I have a question,

I have one more question for you.

309

: 00:17:50

If somebody were to drop a billion

dollars into your hands tomorrow,

310

: 00:17:55

would you build Westworld?

311

: 00:17:57

Travis Chambers: Probably.

312

: 00:17:59

It feels like you're taking baby

steps maybe towards that future

313

: 00:18:02

based on what you just said.

314

: 00:18:03

Yeah, right now I like the

40 to 60 unit projects.

315

: 00:18:09

I think projects can get too big where

you could risk losing the whole project.

316

: 00:18:15

So I feel like there's a certain

level of intimacy that you can't

317

: 00:18:21

really accomplish at scale.

318

: 00:18:23

You'll probably seen people

go from 50 units to 100 units

319

: 00:18:28

and start to have problems.

320

: 00:18:30

That's what I've noticed with some

of my friends that own projects

321

: 00:18:34

outside of Zion National Park.

322

: 00:18:37

But yeah, I think that the even

bigger vision, Brian, when you talk

323

: 00:18:42

about Westworld, is converting this

at some point into long-term living.

324

: 00:18:46

And we see that Disney is now doing

long-term living developments.

325

: 00:18:51

And you just think about how do

our communities change when people

326

: 00:18:55

aren't working on a laptop all day?

327

: 00:18:58

What do they do with their time?

328

: 00:18:59

And old European cities and even Puerto

Rican towns seem much more equipped for

329

: 00:19:04

that future than American towns that

are built around cars and very isolated.

330

: 00:19:10

And you spend a lot of time alone

and there's no mixed zoning, so

331

: 00:19:15

no one can have a business in your

neighborhood, which is really weird.

332

: 00:19:19

So I feel like you talk about

this Westworld thing, I wonder

333

: 00:19:23

if a Westworldification is

going to happen everywhere.

334

: 00:19:27

I wonder if this experientialization

and this hospitality element that

335

: 00:19:32

we're involved in is going to

just be everything, everywhere

336

: 00:19:36

is going to be like that.

337

: 00:19:37

Community driven, agricultural,

agrarian driven as well.

338

: 00:19:42

Brian Searl: I would sign up for that.

339

: 00:19:43

And I'm the biggest AI geek probably in

outdoor hospitality that exists, right?

340

: 00:19:47

But I still like to disconnect.

341

: 00:19:49

I still like to be immersed.

342

: 00:19:50

I still like to...

343

: 00:19:51

and I would love to get to a

place where I know everybody in my

344

: 00:19:55

community for a couple blocks, right?

345

: 00:19:57

I don't know...

346

: 00:19:58

I guess I could theoretically do

that now, but it'd be weird to

347

: 00:20:01

just walk up to people's doors and

knock and be like, "Hey, I'm your

348

: 00:20:03

neighbor from two streets over."

349

: 00:20:05

It feels weird, even though

it shouldn't be weird.

350

: 00:20:08

So if you can do some part to build almost

like a neighborhood that's what you're

351

: 00:20:14

saying is almost themed the same way.

352

: 00:20:16

Does that make...

353

: 00:20:16

and that's too maybe loose of a

word, but that brings the same

354

: 00:20:20

type of people together who want to

experience the same thing and thus

355

: 00:20:22

the community interaction is easier?

356

: 00:20:26

Am I going down the right path?

357

: 00:20:27

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, I think

we're starting to see some of that.

358

: 00:20:31

Travis mentioned kind of the

Disney communities and stuff.

359

: 00:20:35

Not my focus with our company, but other

divisions within LJA do a lot of these

360

: 00:20:41

master plan communities where developers

coming in to build 800, 2,000 home lots.

361

: 00:20:48

And at a $100,000 lot price, you've

got to sell more than just ground.

362

: 00:20:55

You're selling a lifestyle,

they're selling a brand.

363

: 00:20:58

And so we can call it theming, we

can call it immersion, we can call

364

: 00:21:01

it branding, whatever you want.

365

: 00:21:04

But we're seeing those master plan

communities with resort-style swimming

366

: 00:21:07

pools and top-tier amenities and

clubs that would rival a Four Seasons.

367

: 00:21:14

And I think when you look especially

amongst younger generations, I'll

368

: 00:21:19

say Gen Z especially, they're really

putting a huge emphasis on lifestyle.

369

: 00:21:25

You figure most of your life

is spent at work or at home.

370

: 00:21:29

And when you're at home,

wouldn't it be great if it

371

: 00:21:31

felt like you were on vacation?

372

: 00:21:34

So I think we're starting

to see that trend already.

373

: 00:21:37

And I also think that that's probably

one of the things that is pushing that

374

: 00:21:41

ratcheting up of guest expectations

when it does come to outdoor

375

: 00:21:45

hospitality and resort development.

376

: 00:21:47

What people have at home

is getting nicer and nicer.

377

: 00:21:50

So we've really got to up the ante when

it comes to creating a unique experience.

378

: 00:21:55

And I think Travis, to your credit,

you're probably one of the best in the

379

: 00:22:00

business at having accomplished that.

380

: 00:22:03

Brian Searl: If living at home

feels like vacation, does vacation

381

: 00:22:09

exist in the future or do you

just swap homes with someone else?

382

: 00:22:13

Jeremy Johnson: I think it's not so

much does vacation exist, but it's

383

: 00:22:17

wanting a different experience.

384

: 00:22:18

I think Travis, I remember you

talking about this on the podcast

385

: 00:22:23

with Alex and Matt, where it's

like you can be anywhere in 24 to

386

: 00:22:32

48 hours.

387

: 00:22:33

So your life might feel like vacation.

388

: 00:22:36

Like I live in Marquette, Michigan.

389

: 00:22:38

I'm on the shores of Lake Superior.

390

: 00:22:40

To me, every day is vacation.

391

: 00:22:42

I get to look out, I live on the biggest

freshwater lake in North America.

392

: 00:22:47

I love my life.

393

: 00:22:48

But that doesn't mean that I don't

want a completely different experience.

394

: 00:22:52

I might want to go to Utah

and be in the desert or go to

395

: 00:22:54

Santa Fe and be in the desert.

396

: 00:22:56

I want that different perspective.

397

: 00:22:59

And I think that's where that

perspective, being able to give

398

: 00:23:02

somebody a new perspective, that's

where there's a lot of value, I think.

399

: 00:23:08

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I agree with that.

400

: 00:23:09

I think that we as a species, we're

really obsessed with storytelling.

401

: 00:23:13

And the storytellers

generally run society.

402

: 00:23:18

The Aristotles, the

403

: 00:23:22

Shakespeares.

404

: 00:23:22

Or if our life is playing infinite

games, then who's the game maker?

405

: 00:23:27

Whose games are we playing?

406

: 00:23:29

And you see how big the video

game industry is exploding.

407

: 00:23:32

It's multiples and multiples

of the film industry now.

408

: 00:23:36

And I think what happens is when

a species gets more wealthy, they

409

: 00:23:39

start living more like aristocrats.

410

: 00:23:42

So it almost becomes post-monetary

where your exchange of value is your

411

: 00:23:48

style and your personality and your

experiences and your perspectives,

412

: 00:23:53

just like Jeremy said, and your art.

413

: 00:23:55

And so if we do survive this AI thing

and it does bring a lot of abundance

414

: 00:23:59

and prosperity, then it seems like

that exchange will possibly become

415

: 00:24:04

one of the most valuable currencies.

416

: 00:24:06

It will be, right?

417

: 00:24:08

It will be Jeremy walking out and

looking at this lake because he

418

: 00:24:12

doesn't have to live in Milwaukee

anymore to make a living.

419

: 00:24:18

He can live anywhere he wants.

420

: 00:24:21

And because of that, he's this

really interesting character and

421

: 00:24:26

it just seems like that is possibly

going to be where things go.

422

: 00:24:29

It'll be interesting to see.

423

: 00:24:33

Jeremy Johnson: I'm curious,

Joy, we haven't talked about your

424

: 00:24:37

property too much yet, but I'm

guessing you're on a dairy farm.

425

: 00:24:41

Is that an experience in British Columbia

that people are seeking because they

426

: 00:24:45

want to get out of the city or what was

the idea and inspiration behind that?

427

: 00:24:51

Joy de Vos: I guess my inspiration

comes from being a 4-H leader.

428

: 00:24:54

I've been a 4-H leader for 20 years

and in this time I've mentored over 200

429

: 00:24:58

children to learn more about dairy, learn

more about agriculture, being able to be

430

: 00:25:03

public speakers and leaders for tomorrow.

431

: 00:25:06

And along the way, I've encountered

people that couldn't tell that a

432

: 00:25:11

bull calf was actually not a goat.

433

: 00:25:14

Brian Searl: That would be me.

434

: 00:25:16

Joy de Vos: Yeah, and when I had

21-year-olds making that kind of comment

435

: 00:25:19

when I did a petting zoo, I thought,

oh my goodness, we're so out of touch.

436

: 00:25:23

And so I decided with my

husband that we would do an

437

: 00:25:27

educational experience for people.

438

: 00:25:29

It first started off with just doing

dairy tours and working on how we

439

: 00:25:33

farm it with the riparian area.

440

: 00:25:35

We are a working dairy farm, third

generation, and we're hoping that

441

: 00:25:39

it'll go on to the fourth generation.

442

: 00:25:41

So along our discussions, we

decided, let's do a campground.

443

: 00:25:44

That sounds like fun.

444

: 00:25:45

And then we talked about doing a store.

445

: 00:25:47

We'll have a little store

to service the campground.

446

: 00:25:49

And then it became my husband moving

his stuff out of his shop and me turning

447

: 00:25:53

it into a cute little general store.

448

: 00:25:55

So you feel like you've come back in

time because it looks like the late

449

: 00:25:58

1800s and you can see the cows from

inside the store and get a coffee.

450

: 00:26:02

You can go feed the chickens, you

can camp on the farm, you can do

451

: 00:26:06

an actual dairy tour or you can do

a milking dairy tour where you get

452

: 00:26:09

to go in there and milk the cows.

453

: 00:26:12

And if you're lucky,

maybe you get shit on.

454

: 00:26:14

An experience!

455

: 00:26:17

And there's so many people out of

touch with agriculture and in our

456

: 00:26:21

area, we're starting to see more

and more people wanting to get

457

: 00:26:24

back in touch with their roots.

458

: 00:26:25

And we would like to offer

that opportunity to people

459

: 00:26:29

who live in the city.

460

: 00:26:30

Maybe they don't have a

backyard, they can't do a garden.

461

: 00:26:32

Come and check out our

462

: 00:26:35

property.

463

: 00:26:35

Travis Chambers: Zach, have

you guys seen that Netflix show

464

: 00:26:37

called "This is a Gardening Show"?

465

: 00:26:39

Zach Stoltenberg: No, I haven't.

466

: 00:26:41

Travis Chambers: Oh, it's pretty cool.

467

: 00:26:43

He makes like the whole point that

the future of everything is agrarian.

468

: 00:26:47

In that the more abundant we are, the

more we will all go back to an agrarian

469

: 00:26:51

society where we're farming and that will

be our identity and how we spend our time.

470

: 00:26:57

Jeremy Johnson: I can't help but

think of, I don't know if anybody's

471

: 00:26:59

familiar, but there's a very luxury

high-end development, I think it's

472

: 00:27:03

called CERES in Chattahoochee Hills,

Georgia, just outside of Atlanta.

473

: 00:27:09

And it is completely agricultural

based and very food focused.

474

: 00:27:16

They're growing food, but then

also cooking on site, and we're

475

: 00:27:20

talking million-dollar lots.

476

: 00:27:22

It's exactly, Travis, what you're talking

about, Joy, what you're talking about.

477

: 00:27:26

These people have everything they could

ever want, but yet they're going back

478

: 00:27:30

to this from-the-earth movement, and

there's this massive price tag on it

479

: 00:27:35

because they're just outside of Atlanta.

480

: 00:27:38

Zach Stoltenberg: I think another thing

that we've been seeing here recently

481

: 00:27:41

with this growth, this focus on health

and wellness, especially amongst people

482

: 00:27:46

that have got more money than they will

probably spend in their lifetime, or

483

: 00:27:51

even that their children can spend.

484

: 00:27:53

Their focus shifts from material

things into living the best life of

485

: 00:27:58

the years that they have remaining.

486

: 00:28:00

Feeling good, feeling you can do

whatever you want, and that recentral

487

: 00:28:05

focus on health, longevity, wellness,

and a huge part of that is diet.

488

: 00:28:11

So I think all of these experiences that

we're trying to create to attract that

489

: 00:28:16

type of a customer base, it's not just the

theming and the immersion and all of that.

490

: 00:28:22

In order to hit that authenticity

feel that is driving outdoor,

491

: 00:28:26

it's got to be holistic.

492

: 00:28:28

It's got to be the food, learning

about it, tending it, meeting

493

: 00:28:32

the staff that are cooking it and

growing it, and it's got to come full

494

: 00:28:36

circle with all those components.

495

: 00:28:39

Brian Searl: Yeah, I agree with that.

496

: 00:28:40

I'm always one of those people who's

trying to learn as much as they can.

497

: 00:28:43

So when we were down in Key West,

I was going to the farmers markets,

498

: 00:28:46

learning about the pink shrimp and

the lobsters and the stone crab and

499

: 00:28:50

all the things they have down there.

500

: 00:28:52

Then trying to figure out where

can I get it from the markets and

501

: 00:28:53

how can I cook it in my glamping

accommodation that I was in.

502

: 00:28:57

So I think that for sure, it's not

farming, but it's the same from the sea.

503

: 00:29:01

It's figuring out how that all connects

to each other, to the experience.

504

: 00:29:04

We

505

: 00:29:10

stayed at a couple glamping

accommodations, I would call them

506

: 00:29:13

glamping, that were basically

cottages that this guy built on

507

: 00:29:18

top of catamarans in Key West.

508

: 00:29:21

They rent for something like $500 a night.

509

: 00:29:23

I think they're called Outpost 1 and 2

from a company called Mellow Ventures.

510

: 00:29:28

There's a couple competitors

down there, but it's very rare.

511

: 00:29:30

He's basically built these custom

cottages that float on catamarans.

512

: 00:29:33

They're anchored in the middle

of the harbor in Key West in

513

: 00:29:36

four-foot crystal clear water.

514

: 00:29:38

You go out there and there's no air

conditioning, you're just out there in

515

: 00:29:42

this cabin in the middle of the water.

516

: 00:29:43

We stayed there for three nights

and it was one of the most

517

: 00:29:45

relaxing things I think I've done.

518

: 00:29:48

Just being disconnected and being able

to cook my fresh food from the market,

519

: 00:29:53

learning about the shrimp and the fish and

the types of stuff that's swimming by me.

520

: 00:29:59

I'm a buyer, I'm a believer in that.

521

: 00:30:02

Maybe that's your next idea, Travis.

522

: 00:30:05

We go from Westworld to Waterworld.

523

: 00:30:08

Travis Chambers: It's funny, we...

524

: 00:30:09

Brian Searl: But it's got to

be better than Waterworld, man.

525

: 00:30:10

That's a very low bar for a movie to set.

526

: 00:30:15

Travis Chambers: It's funny, we have been

looking at barges and catamarans here in

527

: 00:30:17

Puerto Rico to do that kind of experience.

528

: 00:30:25

Brian Searl: Yeah, it's one

of the most unique things

529

: 00:30:26

that I've ever seen and done.

530

: 00:30:28

And he built it really well.

531

: 00:30:31

Travis Chambers: It's so funny,

we were literally talking last

532

: 00:30:33

week about doing a catamaran.

533

: 00:30:34

I'm thinking, why don't we

just buy a barge and build a

534

: 00:30:38

little village on the barge?

535

: 00:30:41

This is cool, this is really inspiring.

536

: 00:30:43

Jeremy Johnson: There's a project,

I think it's just outside of Toledo.

537

: 00:30:47

I'd have to look on the map, but

it's in the middle of nowhere

538

: 00:30:51

Ohio and it's on Lake Erie.

539

: 00:30:54

This younger guy bought a commercial

marina with 14 slips, and I think he gets

540

: 00:31:02

an average of four or $500 a night because

he turned it into this little micro

541

: 00:31:06

resort where everything's on the water.

542

: 00:31:09

He's got little food trucks that pull up

to his marina, and it's just this whole

543

: 00:31:12

experience that you typically wouldn't

get in this post-industrial area that was

544

: 00:31:19

nothing but iron ore shipping in the past.

545

: 00:31:22

It's cool that he was

able to turn that around.

546

: 00:31:25

I think we all talk about how land

is becoming more and more a scarce

547

: 00:31:29

commodity, but water even more

so, especially nice fresh water

548

: 00:31:34

or even nice sea water as well.

549

: 00:31:41

Brian Searl: Joy, where do

you see Foxtrot Dairy going?

550

: 00:31:43

You said it was new, the

campground side of it?

551

: 00:31:46

Joy de Vos: Yeah, it took us a while

to get the campground up and running

552

: 00:31:49

because it's my husband and I that

are trying to forge ahead with it.

553

: 00:31:53

We have limited capital to

getting it started up, but I

554

: 00:31:56

think we've done really well.

555

: 00:31:59

We're held at a capacity of 10 campsites

because we're on the agricultural land

556

: 00:32:04

reserve, and so that means that we have to

preserve it for farming as a main economy.

557

: 00:32:12

The campground itself is really

just there for the educational

558

: 00:32:16

aspect of dairy farming.

559

: 00:32:23

We have 10 campsites, two of

them are full hookup service.

560

: 00:32:26

We have a septic system, we have

actual showers, not porta-potties.

561

: 00:32:32

We have it planned to set up as

a little village eventually as we

562

: 00:32:38

gain the capital to invest into it.

563

: 00:32:41

The hope is that people will set it as a

journey destination for their families,

564

: 00:32:45

that they'll all come here and do their

family reunions and see the cows going

565

: 00:32:49

back and forth from the campground.

566

: 00:32:51

You can see the dry cows going back

and forth, you can see our horse, and

567

: 00:32:55

our goats are within the campground.

568

: 00:32:57

So it really is a little farm

that we're trying to set up there,

569

: 00:33:01

and you're right beside the farm.

570

: 00:33:03

On the other side of the

bushes is the farm, and you

571

: 00:33:06

don't actually hear the cows.

572

: 00:33:07

It's amazing what a bush can do.

573

: 00:33:11

The store is open, people are able to

come over and be on the main farmyard.

574

: 00:33:16

We're really just hoping that schools

and people that are interested in

575

: 00:33:20

learning about where their milk comes

from, how we farm, why we farm, why

576

: 00:33:25

are the decisions that we make made.

577

: 00:33:27

They're made because we have to work

within our ability with our land, and

578

: 00:33:32

within the nutrition of the animals, and

with staying environmentally friendly.

579

: 00:33:36

So we have a lot of hoops to jump through,

and the agricultural land reserve is a

580

: 00:33:41

special land that's put aside for farming.

581

: 00:33:44

I see us enjoying and meeting lots of

people from around the country, maybe

582

: 00:33:50

around other countries, to come and

just really have a great experience.

583

: 00:33:54

I think for us, seeing a child learn

that milk comes from a cow, I've seen it.

584

: 00:33:59

Kids are like, "Wow, that happens?"

585

: 00:34:02

And they're like, "That's

where my ice cream comes from?"

586

: 00:34:04

Yes, that's where your

ice cream comes from.

587

: 00:34:07

Brian Searl: The most important thing

that comes from a cow, ice cream.

588

: 00:34:09

Joy de Vos: Oh yeah, it is.

589

: 00:34:11

That butter.

590

: 00:34:13

When people come to our

store, we have products from

591

: 00:34:17

little mom-and-pop businesses.

592

: 00:34:19

So really just trying to support that

local community as much as possible,

593

: 00:34:23

working together and showcasing healthy,

nutritious products, thinking about what

594

: 00:34:28

people need to live a happy, healthy life.

595

: 00:34:32

I don't know, I'm still learning.

596

: 00:34:34

This is exciting and it's

nerve-wracking all at the same time,

597

: 00:34:38

but I look forward to my plans.

598

: 00:34:40

Brian Searl: If you ever stop

learning, you'll be bored,

599

: 00:34:42

so I hope you keep learning.

600

: 00:34:44

Is it just RV or do you have any

intentions to add accommodations like

601

: 00:34:47

cabins or glamping or anything out there?

602

: 00:34:50

Joy de Vos: I do want to add glamping.

603

: 00:34:51

I want to make a miniature village of our

farm, but that again requires capital.

604

: 00:34:57

I would like to make a replica of our

actual farm within there and have themed

605

: 00:35:02

cabins for the milk house, the calf

barn, the shop, and with educational

606

: 00:35:07

history pictures on the inside.

607

: 00:35:10

I have the designs already, I just

don't have the capital to get it going.

608

: 00:35:13

So in time, I plan to have all the

sites hooked up and all with power,

609

: 00:35:19

but we know power is expensive, so

that'll take a little bit of time.

610

: 00:35:23

But when it's all set up and

done, it'll be a really cute place

611

: 00:35:26

that people will want to come to.

612

: 00:35:27

Then I hope while they're here,

they see the wineries and the

613

: 00:35:30

other dairy farms near us and just

really get to know the agricultural

614

: 00:35:35

footprint within our communities.

615

: 00:35:38

Brian Searl: It is one of the

hardest things, and I'll just

616

: 00:35:40

admit this from my perspective.

617

: 00:35:41

It's been one of the hardest things

I've learned over the last few years,

618

: 00:35:45

running my business, working 110 hours

a week for 15 plus years, seven days

619

: 00:35:49

a week, because I love what I do.

620

: 00:35:51

It's really been hard for me to

immerse myself into the type of

621

: 00:35:54

experience, to go to the places.

622

: 00:35:55

I take a vacation, but I realized

two years ago that I was walking

623

: 00:35:59

along a beach, I think it was

actually in Vancouver Island.

624

: 00:36:03

I realized I'm walking along this

beach and I'm thinking about business.

625

: 00:36:06

I'm not appreciating that I'm on

a beach, I'm not appreciating the

626

: 00:36:08

ocean is right here, appreciating

there's a time to disconnect.

627

: 00:36:12

So I've tried to reframe that thinking,

but it's hard in the modern world for

628

: 00:36:16

a lot of people to get to that place

with all the distractions that we have

629

: 00:36:19

and opportunities to not be bored.

630

: 00:36:21

Is that just me or is that sentiment

out there with more of you?

631

: 00:36:25

Joy de Vos: I find that all the time.

632

: 00:36:32

Jeremy Johnson: I don't

think it's just you.

633

: 00:36:33

I will say as somebody who lives in the

upper Midwest, I think that's the thing

634

: 00:36:37

I appreciate the most about seasons.

635

: 00:36:39

The seasons make you slow down,

whether it's winter or spring or fall.

636

: 00:36:44

We

637

: 00:36:47

got over 300 inches of snow this

year where I live in Ishpeming.

638

: 00:36:51

When you have that kind of snow,

you can't just go out the door

639

: 00:36:56

and go to wherever you're going.

640

: 00:36:57

You have to slow down,

you have to move the snow.

641

: 00:37:01

At least for me, it makes

me think differently.

642

: 00:37:03

Instead of just rushing out the door

and hopping in my car, I think, you

643

: 00:37:07

know what, it might be easier and more

fun if I skied down to the coffee shop.

644

: 00:37:13

That's what I did multiple

times this winter.

645

: 00:37:16

That makes life a little bit more fun

to have that disconnect and get out of

646

: 00:37:20

that regular pattern of thinking about

business or the most efficient or the

647

: 00:37:25

biggest ROI you can get on a project.

648

: 00:37:27

Brian Searl: That's why I

really like the houseboats.

649

: 00:37:29

We had to take a boat out there from the

marina, a 10, 15-minute ride out from

650

: 00:37:33

the boatyard, and we couldn't leave.

651

: 00:37:37

We could call somebody if we wanted

to and pay for a boat, but we

652

: 00:37:40

were in the middle of the water.

653

: 00:37:41

We weren't going anywhere

even if I wanted to.

654

: 00:37:43

So we had to go grocery shopping,

we had to bring our provisions,

655

: 00:37:46

we had ice coolers, we didn't

have a full refrigerator.

656

: 00:37:48

We had to think and plan and

clearly disconnect and understand

657

: 00:37:52

what we needed, and it was great.

658

: 00:37:55

Jeremy Johnson: One of my favorite places

is actually in the Upper Peninsula,

659

: 00:37:59

about 50 minutes away from where I live.

660

: 00:38:01

It's called the Huron Mountain Club.

661

: 00:38:04

When you go up that club road and you

pass through the gates, you've got no

662

: 00:38:08

service, you're completely disconnected.

663

: 00:38:10

The closest store to get gas, food,

anything, water, is probably 45 minutes

664

: 00:38:18

down the road, and it's a dirt road.

665

: 00:38:22

It brings on a little bit of

anxiety because you're wondering,

666

: 00:38:24

did I forget something?

667

: 00:38:26

But then as you settle in,

you realize it doesn't matter.

668

: 00:38:29

You might think, oh shoot, I forgot

my phone charger, and you realize,

669

: 00:38:32

you know what, I'm here, who cares?

670

: 00:38:34

That feeling is invaluable to have.

671

: 00:38:38

On that same note, one of the

future projects I'm working on is

672

: 00:38:43

on the shores of Lake Superior,

and one of the components of it is

673

: 00:38:49

a private beach that you can only

access by walking through a wetland.

674

: 00:38:53

We're going to be building a raised

boardwalk to get to that wetland and

675

: 00:38:58

it's probably about a thousand feet

of boardwalk, but it's a 10, 15 minute

676

: 00:39:04

walk and it's like you're walking

through pretty deep thick wetland

677

: 00:39:08

and you might get bit by a mosquito.

678

: 00:39:11

Like there might, you might get

hit in the face with a branch.

679

: 00:39:15

That's fine.

680

: 00:39:15

There's an element of uncomfortableness

to it, but then you get to that

681

: 00:39:19

beach and I'm sure Travis, it's

probably like you walk through the

682

: 00:39:23

jungle to get to the waterfalls.

683

: 00:39:25

Like you get to that beach

and everything just changes.

684

: 00:39:27

You're like, this was worth it.

685

: 00:39:30

I call it type two fun.

686

: 00:39:31

Walking to that waterfall might

not have been fun, but then you get

687

: 00:39:34

there, you see how beautiful it is

and you're like, it was all worth it.

688

: 00:39:37

None of it matters now.

689

: 00:39:39

Brian Searl: I just, you need to give

me a bug suit, man, because I'm the one

690

: 00:39:42

guy in the world where every mosquito

will find me from 10 miles away, man.

691

: 00:39:47

They all like me.

692

: 00:39:48

But I would agree with you.

693

: 00:39:49

Yeah, forgetting the phone

charger, there are certain things

694

: 00:39:51

that you don't want to forget.

695

: 00:39:52

We got out to the boat and realized

we forgot the tequila and the cocktail

696

: 00:39:55

mix in the car, so we had to go back.

697

: 00:39:57

10 minute ride.

698

: 00:39:58

Jeremy Johnson: Brian, I've got to jump

early today, but I appreciate being on

699

: 00:40:02

and getting to talk with all of you and

good luck for the last 15 minutes here.

700

: 00:40:06

Brian Searl: Thanks, Jeremy.

701

: 00:40:06

Appreciate you being here.

702

: 00:40:08

Jeremy Johnson: Bye guys.

703

: 00:40:11

Brian Searl: So how do we

keep moving this conversation

704

: 00:40:13

forward in outdoor hospitality?

705

: 00:40:15

How do we get more people into

the way of thinking that...

706

: 00:40:17

and we've talked about experiential

hospitality for a couple years, right?

707

: 00:40:20

Loosely.

708

: 00:40:21

Never anything probably as in-depth

as Travis being on the show,

709

: 00:40:24

right, with experiences like that.

710

: 00:40:27

But does the outdoor hospitality industry

need to reframe some of the thinking

711

: 00:40:31

or are we headed in the right direction

already or what do you think, Zach?

712

: 00:40:35

You work with a lot of these businesses.

713

: 00:40:38

Zach Stoltenberg: I don't

know that I would say reframe.

714

: 00:40:41

One of the things I love

about this industry is that

715

: 00:40:44

there's room for everyone.

716

: 00:40:45

And I don't know that there's any one

right way or wrong way of doing it.

717

: 00:40:49

And that's probably a perspective for

me that's changed a lot over the years.

718

: 00:40:53

Early on in doing these, the majority

of the folks we were working with

719

: 00:40:57

had a lot of capital behind them.

720

: 00:41:00

There was a lot of money available

and people were doing that.

721

: 00:41:03

But seeing what Joy and her husband

are doing, saying, "Hey, we're going

722

: 00:41:06

to do this a little bit at a time.

723

: 00:41:08

We're going to be restricted by capital.

724

: 00:41:10

We're going to start

small and make this work."

725

: 00:41:12

I see a lot of people that have done

that and done so very successfully.

726

: 00:41:15

And maybe their first one was that

way, then it started to take off and

727

: 00:41:19

getting a loan or some investment

to expand or move to their second or

728

: 00:41:23

third site, that became a lot easier.

729

: 00:41:25

But I think Travis, you

mentioned Ben Wolff earlier.

730

: 00:41:29

I think we're seeing a lot of innovators

in this space that are coming in that

731

: 00:41:34

are figuring out what works for them.

732

: 00:41:36

You don't have to spend two grand a

month with Google and Meta for ads

733

: 00:41:42

for marketing for your place, right?

734

: 00:41:44

These guys have worked with

influencers, they've built social media

735

: 00:41:47

campaigns, millions of followers, and

they're doing only direct booking.

736

: 00:41:51

Where a lot of other campgrounds

would say, "Oh gosh, we get so

737

: 00:41:55

much off of our Facebook ads.

738

: 00:41:56

It's the most successful marketing we do."

739

: 00:41:59

So I don't know.

740

: 00:42:01

I guess it's a roundabout way of saying

I don't know what the answer is to that.

741

: 00:42:05

Like where do we go from here?

742

: 00:42:07

I think certainly there's something

to be learned for people who are

743

: 00:42:11

doing it, have tried something new

and are really successful with it.

744

: 00:42:15

And Travis, I'm sure you're

starting to see too, you captured

745

: 00:42:20

this sort of lightning in a

bottle with your first site, you

746

: 00:42:22

built a massive online following.

747

: 00:42:25

I'm anxious to see, does that carry

over into a second site, a third site?

748

: 00:42:29

Does that carry over into

a site out of the country?

749

: 00:42:31

And then how does that shape

your journey of what's next?

750

: 00:42:36

Any thoughts on that?

751

: 00:42:40

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I think it

just comes down to a good story.

752

: 00:42:44

Like Joy is a story, right?

753

: 00:42:48

She's been doing the

farming club for 20 years.

754

: 00:42:53

This is her life, right?

755

: 00:42:55

This is her lifestyle.

756

: 00:42:57

And there's something romantic about

entering someone else's lifestyle.

757

: 00:43:02

It's a cultural experience.

758

: 00:43:03

And so it really, it's just

that's what culture is.

759

: 00:43:07

And I think in the United States,

cultures are very disjointed.

760

: 00:43:11

And I think what we're talking

about exists in a lot of deep

761

: 00:43:17

cultures in the world already.

762

: 00:43:20

Morocco is a hospitality zone.

763

: 00:43:23

There's just this richness, there's

a certain type of food, there's

764

: 00:43:26

a certain type of tradition,

there's a certain type of clothing.

765

: 00:43:30

When you go to Morocco,

you are in a movie.

766

: 00:43:33

You really are.

767

: 00:43:35

And so you go to Joy's place, you're

in this society, you're in this

768

: 00:43:39

community, you're in this way of life.

769

: 00:43:41

I think that's what people want.

770

: 00:43:43

I think people want as many

experiences as they can have.

771

: 00:43:47

And it just naturally seems to be what

people spend their time and money on.

772

: 00:43:53

And it's pretty crazy.

773

: 00:43:54

This is a really strange concept,

but if you are a coal miner and all

774

: 00:43:59

you do your whole life is mine coal

and don't have any other experiences,

775

: 00:44:04

time is going to be very compressed.

776

: 00:44:08

But the more experiences you have,

it's like the more time you create

777

: 00:44:12

because you're experiencing new things.

778

: 00:44:15

They've done studies on this.

779

: 00:44:16

It really sounds wild, but you've

lived half of your life by the

780

: 00:44:21

time you're 20 because the way we

perceive time, because you generally

781

: 00:44:27

are having less new experiences.

782

: 00:44:30

You're in a routine.

783

: 00:44:31

And so if you want to live a longer

life, you go have more experiences.

784

: 00:44:35

Unless you just really love what you have.

785

: 00:44:38

I think that's what people want.

786

: 00:44:42

Obviously if people are stuck in survival

mode, like the majority of people on

787

: 00:44:45

earth are still in a survival situation.

788

: 00:44:48

I have to do this job so that I can eat,

so I can have a shelter over my head.

789

: 00:44:53

So really the stuff we're talking

about is what do you do when

790

: 00:44:56

that's not the case anymore?

791

: 00:44:58

What happens when you're

not in a survival mode?

792

: 00:45:00

How do you spend your time?

793

: 00:45:01

Where do you go?

794

: 00:45:02

And we know that people

spend it on travel.

795

: 00:45:05

They spend a lot of it on travel.

796

: 00:45:06

And we see it too, a lot

of people buy stuff, right?

797

: 00:45:11

But once they reach a certain level of

abundance, they don't buy as much stuff.

798

: 00:45:16

That's what happened with me.

799

: 00:45:17

I sold my company, bought a bunch of

really stupid things I didn't need.

800

: 00:45:21

It didn't make me happy.

801

: 00:45:23

So then I got rid of them and just went

right back to the adventure part of it.

802

: 00:45:27

So I think the other thing

that's happening is the tourism

803

: 00:45:31

market is getting younger.

804

: 00:45:32

So a majority of tourism was over

60 years old for most of our era

805

: 00:45:37

because they're the ones that

have disposable time and income.

806

: 00:45:41

But I just think that there's

just more money going around.

807

: 00:45:45

The upper middle class has doubled

or tripled in the last 20 years

808

: 00:45:50

and people are getting a lot more

mobility, and they're not spending

809

: 00:45:54

as much money on where they live.

810

: 00:45:56

They're spending their money on going

places and they have the flexibility

811

: 00:45:58

to do that, which is not something that

has really been around for a long time.

812

: 00:46:05

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think my answer

to that question, and I don't know if I

813

: 00:46:07

have the answer like you do, Zach, but

I think my answer is to gently nudge

814

: 00:46:12

people toward creating their own whatever

unique experience is in their head, right?

815

: 00:46:17

For Travis, that's what he's building.

816

: 00:46:19

For Ben Wolff, that's something different.

817

: 00:46:21

For the clients that you have,

Zach, that's something different.

818

: 00:46:24

I think there's been perhaps a majority,

and I'm not saying that's 60% or

819

: 00:46:31

whatever, right, but a majority of

people who are developing in outdoor

820

: 00:46:34

hospitality that have just said,

"Look, here's something that works.

821

: 00:46:38

Let me do that also."

822

: 00:46:40

Instead of, "Look, here's

something that works.

823

: 00:46:41

Let me tweak that to make it work

for me or my audience or my niche

824

: 00:46:44

or what I want to accomplish."

825

: 00:46:45

Let me add an RV park or glamping to

a dairy farm instead of just building

826

: 00:46:51

an RV park, if that makes sense.

827

: 00:46:53

So I think that's where we need

to maybe encourage people to go.

828

: 00:46:56

And I think there's significantly,

there are people that are going

829

: 00:47:00

there, like Travis and Ben and some

of your clients, Zach, and other

830

: 00:47:03

people that we've had on this show.

831

: 00:47:04

I think those voices would be

well served for our industry to

832

: 00:47:08

be more visible at some of the

industry conferences that we have.

833

: 00:47:15

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I always

bring it back to storytelling.

834

: 00:47:17

How do you make your

property not a commodity?

835

: 00:47:20

Like Joy's property is

not a commodity at all.

836

: 00:47:23

You're going to milk cows, you're going

to do things that you can't just walk

837

: 00:47:26

into someone's dairy and milk their cow.

838

: 00:47:28

You can't do that anywhere in society.

839

: 00:47:30

It's like you would get shot.

840

: 00:47:31

You might get in trouble, but you could.

841

: 00:47:35

Brian Searl: You're just going to walk in

here and just milk my cow without even...

842

: 00:47:38

what?

843

: 00:47:40

Travis Chambers: The disrespect!

844

: 00:47:41

So that's the problem is too many people

say, "I'm going to do a glamping project."

845

: 00:47:48

What is...

846

: 00:47:49

guys, I almost feel like you

could finish my sentence.

847

: 00:47:51

What is the first thing they say?

848

: 00:47:52

"Oh, I'm going to do domes."

849

: 00:47:54

It's always the same thing.

850

: 00:47:56

I always come to the same conclusion.

851

: 00:47:59

And I would recommend to people,

go figure out what your story is.

852

: 00:48:04

Go figure out what your unique

world is that you want people to

853

: 00:48:09

enter because domes is not enough.

854

: 00:48:14

It's enough if you're right next to

a national park, then it is enough.

855

: 00:48:18

But do you really want to just add

another commodity to the world?

856

: 00:48:22

I love Rick Rubin.

857

: 00:48:24

He's my favorite music producer.

858

: 00:48:26

He always says there's a difference

between art and commerce.

859

: 00:48:29

Commerce is what you make

what you think people want.

860

: 00:48:32

Art is you make what you love.

861

: 00:48:34

And that's what I've tried

to do with my projects.

862

: 00:48:36

What do I love deeply, love?

863

: 00:48:39

And it's like if you're going to build a

project like this and you don't know what

864

: 00:48:41

you love, then you got to go find out.

865

: 00:48:45

You got to go find out.

866

: 00:48:45

Brian Searl: What's your unique story

that you want to tell in the world?

867

: 00:48:51

All right, last few minutes.

868

: 00:48:52

Travis, do you have any

questions for Joy or Zachary?

869

: 00:48:54

We kind of let the guests take over,

so do you have a question you want

870

: 00:48:58

to ask either one of those two?

871

: 00:49:00

Travis Chambers: Yeah, Joy, my

question for you is I'd love

872

: 00:49:04

to know more about how you...

873

: 00:49:07

how do you do this whole guest experience?

874

: 00:49:11

Is it like a choose your

own adventure thing?

875

: 00:49:13

Is there a schedule?

876

: 00:49:16

Joy de Vos: It's a choose

your own adventure thing and

877

: 00:49:19

we schedule based on demand.

878

: 00:49:21

We could have tour times, but what

we've decided to do is work with

879

: 00:49:25

when they're actually being demanded

so that we can be prepared with the

880

: 00:49:30

staff to take people through the tour.

881

: 00:49:33

We have to do biosecurity.

882

: 00:49:37

We have to be prepared that people carry

disease, animals have disease, and we

883

: 00:49:42

have to make sure that both work together.

884

: 00:49:45

So we have to make sure

people's hands are sanitized.

885

: 00:49:48

If you're doing the milking dairy

tour, we'll be providing you with

886

: 00:49:50

the gumboots and the overalls so

that you don't have to worry about

887

: 00:49:54

staining your lovely camping outfit.

888

: 00:49:57

But mainly people, we want them to come

and camp and just enjoy the animals

889

: 00:50:01

that are available all the time and kick

back and relax and forget about real

890

: 00:50:06

life because real life is really hard.

891

: 00:50:09

And then when you want to do a dairy tour,

we'll try to do them in the morning and

892

: 00:50:14

answer the questions as best as we can.

893

: 00:50:16

And we would target our dairy tours based

on who our client is at that moment.

894

: 00:50:21

If they're young children,

we keep it simple.

895

: 00:50:24

If they're older and they're college

students and they're trying to

896

: 00:50:26

learn something about agriculture,

then we'll be more in depth.

897

: 00:50:29

If it's the general person, just an

understanding of how we work with our

898

: 00:50:33

environment to be good stewards of the

land and how we look after our animals.

899

: 00:50:39

We love our girls.

900

: 00:50:40

They all sleep on waterbeds

in case anybody's wondering.

901

: 00:50:43

And they're very happy.

902

: 00:50:46

And we'll develop as we're going

along because obviously I've only

903

: 00:50:50

been doing this for the last 12 months

or 14 months with opening up the

904

: 00:50:55

store and working towards this plan.

905

: 00:50:58

And still I don't even know

what to put in my brochures.

906

: 00:51:00

I have a brochure, but maybe my ideas

will be different in six months from now.

907

: 00:51:05

And our campground can host tents and RVs.

908

: 00:51:09

And right now we only

have two full hookups.

909

: 00:51:11

The rest are dry until we

eventually get to our end goal.

910

: 00:51:18

Travis Chambers: That's really cool.

911

: 00:51:18

My one of my favorite experiences,

my grandpa had a dairy farm.

912

: 00:51:21

My dad grew up on a dairy farm

and I used to go there as a kid,

913

: 00:51:24

climb around the barn, find old...

914

: 00:51:27

I'd find his old mail and checks

to the IRS and stuff from the 50s.

915

: 00:51:32

It was so much fun.

916

: 00:51:34

Like it was this...

917

: 00:51:35

and it's like how many people

really get that experience?

918

: 00:51:38

Zachary, what's your favorite

thing that you've designed so far?

919

: 00:51:44

Zach Stoltenberg: I get this question

a lot and I think the best answer

920

: 00:51:48

I can say is my favorite thing is

whatever I'm working on right now.

921

: 00:51:52

Which the current project,

it's also in Utah.

922

: 00:51:59

I can share a little bit about it, but

I'll say this is the first time instead

923

: 00:52:04

of building or erecting a unit, we

are excavating the units out of rock.

924

: 00:52:10

So that's been very

unique, very different.

925

: 00:52:13

Some challenges with it.

926

: 00:52:15

Everybody on my team has just poured

themselves into it and I think when

927

: 00:52:19

it finally comes to fruition, it's

going to be absolutely incredible.

928

: 00:52:24

But I think yeah, my best answer would

be whatever I'm working on right now.

929

: 00:52:28

Because I think when you put a piece of

yourself into what you're designing, when

930

: 00:52:33

you get passionate about it, when you

get turned on, you get your team excited

931

: 00:52:36

about it, when your client is 100% into

it, that's when we get our best result.

932

: 00:52:42

That's when we create something

that's really incredible.

933

: 00:52:45

And those are the properties that

it might be a year or two later that

934

: 00:52:48

they're finally open and hosting

guests and all those things that we

935

: 00:52:51

talked about, all those ideas, those

conversations, even some of the crazy

936

: 00:52:56

hairball stuff that we came up with

that's like, I don't know if it'll

937

: 00:52:58

work or not, but we'll give it a shot.

938

: 00:53:00

And then that's the thing that got

the million views on Instagram.

939

: 00:53:05

And so that's the way we work.

940

: 00:53:08

But yeah, for me it's always

whatever we're doing right now.

941

: 00:53:12

That's what I'm passionate about.

942

: 00:53:13

Travis Chambers: Was

it hard to get permits?

943

: 00:53:15

Was it hard to engineer

building into rock?

944

: 00:53:19

Zach Stoltenberg: It's been interesting.

945

: 00:53:21

The permit side not so much.

946

: 00:53:23

The county and the state have

been reasonable to work with.

947

: 00:53:26

But some of the testing, the

geotech, the borings, working

948

: 00:53:30

with a really knowledgeable crew

that's used to doing drilling and

949

: 00:53:36

blasting and some of those things.

950

: 00:53:38

We had big questions and they were

like, "Yeah, we do this all the time."

951

: 00:53:41

And so I would say the most difficult

thing was us, our education and learning

952

: 00:53:46

what is possible and then listening

to those trades and those contractors

953

: 00:53:50

and saying, "Yeah, we can do that."

954

: 00:53:52

And we sent him a few crazy things

and he's like, "I've never done that

955

: 00:53:55

before, but I think I can do it."

956

: 00:53:57

And there's been some things

that he pushed back a little bit.

957

: 00:54:00

"If you want a column there, leave

it at least six or eight feet wide.

958

: 00:54:03

Don't give me a two foot column,

that's going to crack and break on me."

959

: 00:54:06

So it's been very interesting, very

educational, but it's been a ton of fun.

960

: 00:54:10

And I've got it...

961

: 00:54:12

we're working on it with a client who is

one of the most passionate people that

962

: 00:54:16

I think I've ever worked for before.

963

: 00:54:19

Brian Searl: We need to get

you your own TV show, Zach.

964

: 00:54:22

Do you remember that TV show

with the people who went around

965

: 00:54:24

and built the crazy fish tanks?

966

: 00:54:26

I can't remember what it's called.

967

: 00:54:27

Zach Stoltenberg: I

don't need a show, but...

968

: 00:54:29

Brian Searl: Tanked, yeah.

969

: 00:54:30

Zach Stoltenberg: I would love to do...

970

: 00:54:31

maybe Netflix needs to do a pilot

series on building experiential stays

971

: 00:54:37

and go out and follow some of these

crews with folks like what Travis is

972

: 00:54:41

doing out there to see that sort of

behind the scenes of what's going on.

973

: 00:54:45

I think there's three or four I

think they could go shoot right now.

974

: 00:54:48

Brian Searl: It

975

: 00:54:51

would be interesting for sure.

976

: 00:54:52

We're a couple minutes over.

977

: 00:54:53

Joy, do you have a last question

for Zach or Travis before we go?

978

: 00:54:58

Joy de Vos: I can't think

of anything at this moment.

979

: 00:55:00

Sorry.

980

: 00:55:01

Brian Searl: No, that's perfectly fine.

981

: 00:55:02

All right, final thoughts.

982

: 00:55:03

Joy, any final thoughts?

983

: 00:55:04

And then where can they find

out more about Foxtrot Dairy?

984

: 00:55:07

Joy de Vos: We're foxtrotdairy.ca

985

: 00:55:09

and we have .com,

986

: 00:55:11

but .com

987

: 00:55:11

is sleeping.

988

: 00:55:12

I made sure to buy both panhandles

to make sure that they're mine.

989

: 00:55:16

Just that we provide our

own beef when we're...

990

: 00:55:20

when you're at our farm.

991

: 00:55:21

And we have our own lamb and pork

and we've brought in some select

992

: 00:55:26

agricultural products from different

vendors and just trying to provide

993

: 00:55:30

what you would need when you come here.

994

: 00:55:32

Come and visit us and pet a goat.

995

: 00:55:35

Say hi to the chickens, say

hi to the cows, say hi to me.

996

: 00:55:38

I'll tell you a lot.

997

: 00:55:41

Brian Searl: Thank you,

Joy, for being here.

998

: 00:55:42

I appreciate it.

999

: 00:55:42

I'm looking forward to

seeing your success.

: 1000

00:55:44,417 --> 00:55:47,247

Zach, any final thoughts or where

can they learn more about LJA?

: 1001

00:55:48,927 --> 00:55:52,397

Zach Stoltenberg: You can reach

out to me on LinkedIn or Instagram.

: 1002

00:55:52,447 --> 00:55:56,027

Like I always said, never

charged anybody for a phone call.

: 1003

00:55:56,067 --> 00:55:57,147

We'd love to talk to people.

: 1004

00:55:57,147 --> 00:55:58,687

Maybe we can help you, maybe we can't.

: 1005

00:55:59,247 --> 00:56:03,577

But my email is just zstoltenberg@lja.com.

: 1006

00:56:04,097 --> 00:56:08,227

And again, most of our advertising,

I like to say, is not us.

: 1007

00:56:08,307 --> 00:56:11,267

It's through the clients, through

the properties we've worked with.

: 1008

00:56:11,267 --> 00:56:12,847

I think they're our best testament.

: 1009

00:56:12,857 --> 00:56:16,147

We like kind of being the folks

in the background that help people

: 1010

00:56:16,147 --> 00:56:17,337

that are doing wonderful things.

: 1011

00:56:17,837 --> 00:56:20,497

And Joy, I want to design

mini barns for you.

: 1012

00:56:21,057 --> 00:56:24,307

I want little experiential stay units.

: 1013

00:56:24,307 --> 00:56:26,867

I want them to be able to sit

in bed and look up and see the

: 1014

00:56:26,867 --> 00:56:28,427

cows at the foot of the bed.

: 1015

00:56:28,947 --> 00:56:32,577

I want the kids to be able to sleep

up in the hayloft for the evening.

: 1016

00:56:32,637 --> 00:56:34,317

I think we could do some really fun stuff.

: 1017

00:56:35,957 --> 00:56:40,717

And I grew up on a cattle ranch,

so not that far detracted from it.

: 1018

00:56:41,367 --> 00:56:42,737

I was a 4-H kid too.

: 1019

00:56:43,917 --> 00:56:45,857

Joy de Vos: Yeah, 4-H is

such a valuable program.

: 1020

00:56:45,927 --> 00:56:48,027

If all of our children were

in it, we would have a bit

: 1021

00:56:48,027 --> 00:56:49,417

of a different society today.

: 1022

00:56:50,487 --> 00:56:51,467

Please reach out to me.

: 1023

00:56:52,587 --> 00:56:52,987

Zach Stoltenberg: I will.

: 1024

00:56:53,807 --> 00:56:55,797

Brian Searl: Last but not least,

Travis, any final thoughts and

: 1025

00:56:55,797 --> 00:56:57,557

where can they find out more about

the projects you have going on?

: 1026

00:56:58,697 --> 00:57:01,827

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I'm on

Instagram, travis_chambers.

: 1027

00:57:01,827 --> 00:57:05,947

And then you can check out Outpost

X on Instagram or Outpost X

: 1028

00:57:05,947 --> 00:57:07,307

Jungle for the island project.

: 1029

00:57:07,767 --> 00:57:10,397

Brian Searl: All right, thank

you guys for being here.

: 1030

00:57:10,397 --> 00:57:10,947

I appreciate it.

: 1031

00:57:11,287 --> 00:57:13,067

Join us for another episode

of MC Fireside Chats.

: 1032

00:57:13,067 --> 00:57:15,577

If you're not sick and tired of

hearing from me, I will have another

: 1033

00:57:15,577 --> 00:57:18,447

live podcast in about 45 minutes

or so with Scott Bahr, who we're

: 1034

00:57:18,447 --> 00:57:21,057

going to talk about data research,

AI, tech, all that kind of stuff.

: 1035

00:57:21,627 --> 00:57:22,207

So join us there.

: 1036

00:57:22,207 --> 00:57:24,757

If not, we'll see you next week for

another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

: 1037

00:57:24,957 --> 00:57:25,477

Thanks guys.

: 1038

00:57:25,567 --> 00:57:25,847

Take care.

: 1039

00:57:25,897 --> 00:57:26,457

Travis Chambers: Thanks guys.

: 1040

00:57:27,107 --> 00:57:27,677

Zach Stoltenberg: Thanks everybody.

: 1041

00:57:28,907 --> 00:57:29,247

Joy de Vos: Thank you.

: 1042

00:57:29,398 --> 00:57:32,458

Brian Searl: With Insider Perks and Modern

Campground, excited to be here with you.

: 1043

00:57:32,738 --> 00:57:34,888

Back from the Florida Keys,

my dog is laying next to me.

: 1044

00:57:34,888 --> 00:57:39,628

She missed me for 12 days or however

long I was gone, so we have more

: 1045

00:57:39,658 --> 00:57:41,118

separation anxiety than normal.

: 1046

00:57:41,568 --> 00:57:44,478

But excited to be back here for

another episode of Fireside Chats.

: 1047

00:57:44,478 --> 00:57:47,888

We got Zach, recurring guest, Jeremy,

recurring guest, Travis as a special

: 1048

00:57:47,888 --> 00:57:49,598

guest, and Joy as our special guest today.

: 1049

00:57:49,608 --> 00:57:51,618

I want to go around the room

and just introduce everybody.

: 1050

00:57:52,088 --> 00:57:52,708

Zach, you want to start?

: 1051

00:57:54,278 --> 00:57:54,668

Zach Stoltenberg: Sure.

: 1052

00:57:54,828 --> 00:57:56,068

My name is Zach Stoltenberg.

: 1053

00:57:56,078 --> 00:58:00,178

I'm the Associate Principal for

Architecture with LJA Engineering.

: 1054

00:58:00,188 --> 00:58:06,358

We help people design, build, permit,

and entitle outdoor hospitality.

: 1055

00:58:06,358 --> 00:58:11,298

So glamping, camping, luxury RV parks,

boutique hotels, and experiential stays.

: 1056

00:58:12,198 --> 00:58:12,528

Brian Searl: Awesome.

: 1057

00:58:12,528 --> 00:58:13,258

Welcome back, Zach.

: 1058

00:58:13,268 --> 00:58:14,308

Appreciate you being here.

: 1059

00:58:14,438 --> 00:58:14,818

Jeremy?

: 1060

00:58:15,918 --> 00:58:17,098

Jeremy Johnson: Hey

guys, my name is Jeremy.

: 1061

00:58:17,108 --> 00:58:20,308

I'm one of the owners of Kona Hills

Campground in Marquette, Michigan.

: 1062

00:58:20,668 --> 00:58:24,188

Actually on site today, getting

ready to open next weekend.

: 1063

00:58:24,328 --> 00:58:28,178

We finally got bright sunny weather

above 50 degrees in Northern

: 1064

00:58:28,178 --> 00:58:29,878

Michigan, so I'm feeling good.

: 1065

00:58:30,768 --> 00:58:31,408

Brian Searl: It's warm here too.

: 1066

00:58:31,658 --> 00:58:32,648

Yeah, we got lucked out.

: 1067

00:58:32,648 --> 00:58:34,708

Although it's supposed to be

cold this weekend, so we'll see

: 1068

00:58:34,748 --> 00:58:36,988

for the holiday up here anyway.

: 1069

00:58:37,458 --> 00:58:37,848

Joy?

: 1070

00:58:39,118 --> 00:58:42,038

Joy de Vos: Hi, my name is Joy de

Vos and I'm from British Columbia.

: 1071

00:58:42,208 --> 00:58:47,788

We opened up our campground this year

and we're looking at trying to give

: 1072

00:58:47,788 --> 00:58:49,608

people the experience on a dairy farm.

: 1073

00:58:50,818 --> 00:58:51,358

Brian Searl: Welcome, Joy.

: 1074

00:58:51,358 --> 00:58:52,914

Is it going to be cold

over there in BC like us?

: 1075

00:58:52,914 --> 00:58:55,188

Is it going to be like nine

here for the holiday weekend?

: 1076

00:58:56,738 --> 00:58:59,408

Joy de Vos: I think it's

around 10 and it's cloudy.

: 1077

00:59:03,028 --> 00:59:04,268

Yeah, this is not my background.

: 1078

00:59:04,328 --> 00:59:07,948

I would have liked to have had my

farm background, but I'll just go

: 1079

00:59:07,948 --> 00:59:09,628

with your pre-made avatar here.

: 1080

00:59:11,118 --> 00:59:12,488

Brian Searl: Travis,

last but not least, sir.

: 1081

00:59:13,328 --> 00:59:15,278

Travis Chambers: Hey,

Travis Chambers here.

: 1082

00:59:15,368 --> 00:59:21,518

Company is Outpost X and we build

immersive adventure hotels or micro

: 1083

00:59:21,518 --> 00:59:23,398

resorts, not sure what to call them.

: 1084

00:59:23,398 --> 00:59:26,768

But we're here today

in Rincon, Puerto Rico.

: 1085

00:59:26,768 --> 00:59:29,448

We're building an avatar-inspired

project in our jungle here.

: 1086

00:59:30,488 --> 00:59:30,928

Brian Searl: Awesome.

: 1087

00:59:30,988 --> 00:59:32,378

Excited to learn more about that, Travis.

: 1088

00:59:32,398 --> 00:59:32,948

Thanks for being here.

: 1089

00:59:32,988 --> 00:59:33,378

I appreciate it.

: 1090

00:59:33,818 --> 00:59:37,098

So normally how we start the show,

everybody knows, or Jeremy and Zach

: 1091

00:59:37,098 --> 00:59:38,188

know, we just toss it to you guys.

: 1092

00:59:38,188 --> 00:59:41,298

Is there anything that you guys have

felt has come across your desk in

: 1093

00:59:41,298 --> 00:59:44,558

the last few weeks since we've been

together on this specific show that

: 1094

00:59:44,558 --> 00:59:46,208

you think is worthy of talking about?

: 1095

00:59:49,458 --> 00:59:52,428

Jeremy Johnson: Man, I don't know if

it's just my feed showing it to me,

: 1096

00:59:52,428 --> 00:59:57,318

but I feel like everybody seems to

be harping on dynamic pricing lately.

: 1097

00:59:57,358 --> 01:00:01,618

That seems to be such a big

thing that: 2026

: 1098

01:00:01,618 --> 01:00:05,408

I don't know if anybody here has

utilized it in their projects yet.

: 1099

01:00:06,628 --> 01:00:07,518

Brian Searl: So here's a question.

: 1100

01:00:07,518 --> 01:00:09,958

Are we talking about real dynamic

pricing or are we talking about

: 1101

01:00:09,958 --> 01:00:12,878

what the campground industry has,

which is basically yield management?

: 1102

01:00:14,328 --> 01:00:17,008

Jeremy Johnson: I think that's

also the consensus from everybody

: 1103

01:00:17,008 --> 01:00:20,508

that I'm talking to or everybody

that I'm seeing in my feed.

: 1104

01:00:20,548 --> 01:00:25,478

Everybody's saying turning on PriceLabs

or turning on dynamic pricing in

: 1105

01:00:25,488 --> 01:00:28,188

Newbook isn't quite cutting it anymore.

: 1106

01:00:28,228 --> 01:00:31,738

There's a manual process behind

all of it that most people

: 1107

01:00:31,738 --> 01:00:33,488

aren't fully exploring, it seems.

: 1108

01:00:33,518 --> 01:00:35,968

Brian Searl: Where do you think,

Jeremy, as an owner of a campground

: 1109

01:00:36,118 --> 01:00:38,748

obviously, what do you think is missing?

: 1110

01:00:38,748 --> 01:00:41,188

What do you think is the biggest

gap between where we need to go?

: 1111

01:00:41,228 --> 01:00:42,248

Because there are steps, right?

: 1112

01:00:42,248 --> 01:00:45,478

We're not going to get to Disney

tomorrow or Delta Airlines tomorrow.

: 1113

01:00:45,848 --> 01:00:49,028

But where's the step the industry

needs to take to get us from where

: 1114

01:00:49,028 --> 01:00:50,468

we are now to where we should be?

: 1115

01:00:52,368 --> 01:00:56,008

Jeremy Johnson: On the campground

side, it's hard for me to say because

: 1116

01:00:56,248 --> 01:01:02,008

we use Parc as our PMS and they just

introduced flexible pricing across

: 1117

01:01:02,028 --> 01:01:07,278

dates, but they don't have any dynamic

pricing or dynamic pricing integrations.

: 1118

01:01:07,638 --> 01:01:09,988

I'm also very rustic, as you know, Brian.

: 1119

01:01:09,988 --> 01:01:12,498

So I don't have a lot of amenities.

: 1120

01:01:12,568 --> 01:01:15,318

A base price works really easy for me.

: 1121

01:01:15,348 --> 01:01:18,258

I don't need to go up or down a

whole lot compared to somebody

: 1122

01:01:18,258 --> 01:01:22,738

with maybe higher demand or more

amenities or different site types.

: 1123

01:01:23,178 --> 01:01:26,398

So it's hard for me to say, but I

think the one thing that I've noticed

: 1124

01:01:26,438 --> 01:01:30,668

on my end, whether it's with Airbnb

or even thinking about the campground,

: 1125

01:01:30,688 --> 01:01:35,638

is there's not a lot of consideration

for my individual properties.

: 1126

01:01:38,208 --> 01:01:42,378

You can set a base floor, but

you can't set a dynamic floor.

: 1127

01:01:42,688 --> 01:01:45,408

I would like to be able to set

a dynamic floor based on the

: 1128

01:01:45,408 --> 01:01:49,458

season, where most software just

lets you set one single floor.

: 1129

01:01:49,508 --> 01:01:54,508

So I think taking into account more of

the uniqueness of your property and not

: 1130

01:01:54,508 --> 01:01:59,058

just a single equation would be really

helpful with a lot of these softwares.

: 1131

01:02:00,728 --> 01:02:02,098

Brian Searl: Zach, anybody

else have anything to add?

: 1132

01:02:02,098 --> 01:02:02,758

Travis, Joy?

: 1133

01:02:04,548 --> 01:02:06,438

Zach Stoltenberg: I think some of

that is still coming out of the

: 1134

01:02:06,438 --> 01:02:08,428

influence of traditional hospitality.

: 1135

01:02:08,548 --> 01:02:12,348

All those systems and mechanisms,

the booking software, they're

: 1136

01:02:12,358 --> 01:02:14,098

built for that traditional model.

: 1137

01:02:15,108 --> 01:02:19,858

Everything about outdoor hospitality

is so unique and different.

: 1138

01:02:20,728 --> 01:02:24,758

Looking at Travis's property, even

with different seasons, I think

: 1139

01:02:24,758 --> 01:02:28,398

his demand is always there because

it's such a unique property.

: 1140

01:02:28,548 --> 01:02:33,298

I think traditional hotels, their

demand drivers are typically events.

: 1141

01:02:33,648 --> 01:02:36,628

Maybe there's a concert, maybe

there's a convention, a gathering,

: 1142

01:02:36,678 --> 01:02:40,618

a meetup, something like that, and

they'll of course raise prices because

: 1143

01:02:40,648 --> 01:02:43,758

they know there's more demand on

those particular event weekends.

: 1144

01:02:44,228 --> 01:02:49,248

But I think there's not a good way to

measure those demand drivers when it

: 1145

01:02:49,248 --> 01:02:52,038

comes from that experiential perspective.

: 1146

01:02:52,748 --> 01:02:56,368

The other thing I think to answer your

first question, Brian, that I noticed,

: 1147

01:02:56,668 --> 01:03:00,888

we're coming off of back-to-back

conventions with the Texas Association

: 1148

01:03:01,288 --> 01:03:04,648

of Campground Owners, the TACO event, and

then the Florida and Alabama convention.

: 1149

01:03:05,468 --> 01:03:08,868

The thing that we heard kind of

harped on repeatedly at both of those

: 1150

01:03:08,868 --> 01:03:14,648

events was that campground owners

need to be paying attention to non-RV.

: 1151

01:03:15,678 --> 01:03:20,268

With the RV market kind of stabilizing,

softening a little bit, there's a big

: 1152

01:03:20,298 --> 01:03:27,548

push right now into cabins, park models,

glamping tents, other accommodation

: 1153

01:03:27,568 --> 01:03:31,408

options for all those people who want

to come and have that camping experience

: 1154

01:03:31,438 --> 01:03:33,108

but don't necessarily own an RV.

: 1155

01:03:34,488 --> 01:03:37,348

Brian Searl: How do we, and maybe

we don't want to take this over the

: 1156

01:03:37,348 --> 01:03:39,768

whole show and go down this direction,

but it's just interesting to me.

: 1157

01:03:40,678 --> 01:03:46,208

Is it possible to build a dynamic pricing

model for experiences or experiential?

: 1158

01:03:47,198 --> 01:03:49,988

To measure what the guest is not only

experiencing in the accommodation,

: 1159

01:03:49,988 --> 01:03:53,828

but what they're feeling, how their

stay goes, what the landscaping is,

: 1160

01:03:54,418 --> 01:03:57,038

everything that you do, Zach, to

design the resorts, everything that

: 1161

01:03:57,038 --> 01:04:01,318

Travis does with the accommodations,

everything Jeremy does from operations

: 1162

01:04:01,348 --> 01:04:02,708

that feed into that experience.

: 1163

01:04:02,758 --> 01:04:03,718

Or is that unnecessary?

: 1164

01:04:03,728 --> 01:04:03,738

Zach Stoltenberg: I

: 1165

01:04:06,988 --> 01:04:08,488

think that's the rub here, right?

: 1166

01:04:08,498 --> 01:04:14,428

That's the challenge is how do you,

what's the data measurement, the metric

: 1167

01:04:14,428 --> 01:04:18,438

that you would use to drive that dynamic

pricing when it's experience-based?

: 1168

01:04:20,658 --> 01:04:21,398

Brian Searl: Anybody have any ideas?

: 1169

01:04:22,608 --> 01:04:23,588

Travis, you have an idea?

: 1170

01:04:24,268 --> 01:04:24,678

You build...

: 1171

01:04:26,558 --> 01:04:28,688

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I'm

not a dynamic pricing expert.

: 1172

01:04:28,848 --> 01:04:30,228

Brian Searl: No, but you're

an accommodation expert.

: 1173

01:04:30,238 --> 01:04:31,448

You're an experience guy, right?

: 1174

01:04:31,548 --> 01:04:32,048

Travis Chambers: Yeah.

: 1175

01:04:32,188 --> 01:04:35,598

I actually just texted my business

partner to ask him if we do it.

: 1176

01:04:35,648 --> 01:04:38,478

I don't know if we have a

software running, I'll ask him.

: 1177

01:04:39,178 --> 01:04:44,818

I know we were doing it manually,

but most of our demand is driven by

: 1178

01:04:45,008 --> 01:04:46,838

marketing and influencers and stuff.

: 1179

01:04:46,838 --> 01:04:51,148

So I don't know if dynamic

helps us a little bit less.

: 1180

01:04:51,168 --> 01:04:52,688

I know Ben Wolff does a ton of it.

: 1181

01:04:52,878 --> 01:04:54,228

He talks about it all the time.

: 1182

01:04:54,458 --> 01:04:57,358

So I'm waiting on an answer

from my partner on that.

: 1183

01:04:57,878 --> 01:04:59,898

Brian Searl: In the meantime, while you

wait on the answer from your partner,

: 1184

01:05:00,198 --> 01:05:01,428

tell us what you're building, Travis.

: 1185

01:05:02,448 --> 01:05:06,078

Travis Chambers: Yeah, so we're building

these, basically they're movie set hotels.

: 1186

01:05:06,268 --> 01:05:08,478

So they're highly experiential.

: 1187

01:05:08,578 --> 01:05:12,898

We're trying to pull that lever as much

as possible, and experiential hospitality

: 1188

01:05:12,898 --> 01:05:15,638

is kind of a growing niche right now.

: 1189

01:05:15,648 --> 01:05:15,668

So

: 1190

01:05:18,538 --> 01:05:21,758

when you enter the project,

you're entering a movie scene.

: 1191

01:05:21,888 --> 01:05:25,048

There's a whole story, there's a

podcast that you listen to on the way

: 1192

01:05:25,048 --> 01:05:29,508

there with dialogue and characters

and plot lines and backstories.

: 1193

01:05:30,148 --> 01:05:34,788

You get to the project, you

enter this super themed unit.

: 1194

01:05:34,818 --> 01:05:40,028

We try to remove all of your

connections to the modern world,

: 1195

01:05:40,028 --> 01:05:45,368

to your life, and you're just in

this 48-hour kind of experience.

: 1196

01:05:46,518 --> 01:05:49,868

It's almost like the movie version

if you were going to go train with

: 1197

01:05:49,878 --> 01:05:55,508

samurai or go in the Amazon rainforest

with a tribe or go on a safari.

: 1198

01:05:55,528 --> 01:06:00,018

We're trying to create that

level of immersive experience.

: 1199

01:06:00,028 --> 01:06:02,778

So we have art cars that

you can drive around.

: 1200

01:06:03,008 --> 01:06:08,228

There's an audio tour with historical

signs throughout the property

: 1201

01:06:08,228 --> 01:06:11,598

of things that are not real,

they're just our fictional world.

: 1202

01:06:12,748 --> 01:06:14,448

It's a choose your own adventure place.

: 1203

01:06:14,478 --> 01:06:18,118

There's a cantina with

mocktails that you can make.

: 1204

01:06:18,548 --> 01:06:25,738

There's an earth lodge that's a Moroccan

interior with mint tea and all these

: 1205

01:06:25,828 --> 01:06:30,648

random delicacies and snacks that we

made up that are part of our culture.

: 1206

01:06:31,478 --> 01:06:32,078

But it's cool.

: 1207

01:06:32,328 --> 01:06:34,068

We're mixing a lot of things together.

: 1208

01:06:34,078 --> 01:06:39,648

It's like a landscape hotel, it's like

an Airbnb, it's like a resort, but not.

: 1209

01:06:40,328 --> 01:06:44,528

So it's actually difficult to explain

exactly what it is, but it's like

: 1210

01:06:44,528 --> 01:06:45,868

a movie set kind of experience.

: 1211

01:06:45,868 --> 01:06:50,218

And now here in Puerto Rico, we're

doing this avatar-inspired experience.

: 1212

01:06:50,218 --> 01:06:54,898

And so you arrive at this jungle

trading post, right, that's

: 1213

01:06:54,898 --> 01:06:56,558

hidden into this jungle here.

: 1214

01:06:57,008 --> 01:07:01,118

This old kind of colonial

thing that's happening here.

: 1215

01:07:01,118 --> 01:07:05,148

And then you descend down into

the jungle to ancient times.

: 1216

01:07:05,638 --> 01:07:11,378

And we're going to have a lighting

design, projection mapping where

: 1217

01:07:11,378 --> 01:07:15,538

the whole jungle comes alive, and

you have this art walk experience.

: 1218

01:07:15,558 --> 01:07:18,368

And then there's waterfalls

down at the bottom with lagoons.

: 1219

01:07:18,708 --> 01:07:21,808

So we're just trying to create

this magic, kind of surreal

: 1220

01:07:22,258 --> 01:07:23,978

cinematic experience for people.

: 1221

01:07:25,318 --> 01:07:29,378

Brian Searl: Is it fair to say that then

you're basically putting someone in a

: 1222

01:07:29,378 --> 01:07:32,208

personalized movie of their own making?

: 1223

01:07:32,918 --> 01:07:33,248

Travis Chambers: Yeah.

: 1224

01:07:35,118 --> 01:07:36,168

It's hard to explain.

: 1225

01:07:36,788 --> 01:07:37,888

I'm still working on the pitch.

: 1226

01:07:37,888 --> 01:07:38,698

Brian Searl: I like that.

: 1227

01:07:39,258 --> 01:07:40,718

I like a challenge like that, right?

: 1228

01:07:40,758 --> 01:07:44,028

Because you're creating your own

thing that hasn't been done before in

: 1229

01:07:44,028 --> 01:07:45,158

the ways that you've been doing it.

: 1230

01:07:45,188 --> 01:07:48,868

And I think that innovation is

probably sorely needed in the

: 1231

01:07:48,868 --> 01:07:49,948

outdoor hospitality industry.

: 1232

01:07:51,958 --> 01:07:53,258

Travis Chambers: Yeah, so

far it seems to be working.

: 1233

01:07:53,298 --> 01:07:55,438

We opened Outpost X Utah two years ago.

: 1234

01:07:55,448 --> 01:07:59,938

We've had 87% occupancy, $441 ADR.

: 1235

01:07:59,938 --> 01:08:03,668

And so we'll see how it

goes here in Puerto Rico.

: 1236

01:08:04,378 --> 01:08:08,658

Brian Searl: How do you do marketing

to the consumer who is unfamiliar

: 1237

01:08:08,658 --> 01:08:09,728

with a product like yours?

: 1238

01:08:09,728 --> 01:08:12,708

Like obviously you can say all the

things you just told us, right?

: 1239

01:08:12,708 --> 01:08:16,108

But how do you convince the guest

who's never experienced something like

: 1240

01:08:16,108 --> 01:08:21,018

yours that it's worth the $441 ADR or

whatever it is to come and do all that?

: 1241

01:08:21,608 --> 01:08:24,938

Travis Chambers: Yeah, so our project

in Utah is three hours from Vegas and

: 1242

01:08:24,938 --> 01:08:27,548

an hour and 45 minutes west of Zion.

: 1243

01:08:27,548 --> 01:08:30,377

So it's absolutely in

the middle of nowhere.

: 1244

01:08:30,497 --> 01:08:32,058

And we wanted to do this experiment.

: 1245

01:08:32,098 --> 01:08:34,408

Can we get someone to go

in the middle of nowhere?

: 1246

01:08:34,438 --> 01:08:35,488

Can we pull that off?

: 1247

01:08:36,028 --> 01:08:39,968

The thing that's worked has been

medium-sized travel influencers.

: 1248

01:08:40,587 --> 01:08:44,658

And these are people who just

find experiences and explain

: 1249

01:08:44,658 --> 01:08:45,888

them to their audience.

: 1250

01:08:46,877 --> 01:08:47,997

It's done really well.

: 1251

01:08:48,108 --> 01:08:55,377

I'd say we've spent maybe $30,000 total

in two years on influencers to do about

: 1252

01:08:55,377 --> 01:08:58,008

250 million views on social media.

: 1253

01:08:58,558 --> 01:09:03,808

And to our knowledge, we're the most

viewed hospitality product in Utah.

: 1254

01:09:06,268 --> 01:09:07,728

Brian Searl: Something to

hang your hat on for sure.

: 1255

01:09:08,318 --> 01:09:11,728

Especially with all the national parks

there and all the amazing geography.

: 1256

01:09:12,308 --> 01:09:13,738

Zach, you have any questions for Travis?

: 1257

01:09:15,598 --> 01:09:16,858

Zach Stoltenberg: One, I

love that you're in Rincon.

: 1258

01:09:17,048 --> 01:09:21,398

I actually spent Christmas a year

ago in Rincon at Crash Boat Beach

: 1259

01:09:21,428 --> 01:09:23,348

and I love that area of Puerto Rico.

: 1260

01:09:23,398 --> 01:09:27,518

It's absolutely incredible and the

people there are absolutely wonderful.

: 1261

01:09:28,008 --> 01:09:29,408

That's pretty exciting.

: 1262

01:09:29,408 --> 01:09:30,648

I'm anxious to see you focusing on that.

: 1263

01:09:31,048 --> 01:09:35,417

Talk a little bit about just some of

the challenges of those remote sites.

: 1264

01:09:35,428 --> 01:09:40,457

Solving some of the problems of

utilities, of infrastructure, of

: 1265

01:09:40,518 --> 01:09:44,827

getting trades to come out to be able

to actually do work on the property.

: 1266

01:09:44,827 --> 01:09:47,968

Is it bringing a crew in or

is it sourcing it locally?

: 1267

01:09:48,288 --> 01:09:50,837

Because I think you're doing

something that is amazing and

: 1268

01:09:50,837 --> 01:09:55,128

wonderful, but everybody would

be doing it if it was easy.

: 1269

01:09:55,388 --> 01:09:56,848

And I know that it's not easy.

: 1270

01:09:57,077 --> 01:10:00,308

I know that you've taken honestly

probably one of the more difficult

: 1271

01:10:00,327 --> 01:10:02,388

paths in order to get there.

: 1272

01:10:02,388 --> 01:10:06,808

So maybe just tell us a little bit

about what that journey's been like

: 1273

01:10:06,918 --> 01:10:09,698

and your approach to it and some of

the things that have worked for you.

: 1274

01:10:10,648 --> 01:10:11,558

Travis Chambers: Yeah, thanks Zach.

: 1275

01:10:11,618 --> 01:10:13,708

Yeah, we've tried just about everything.

: 1276

01:10:13,818 --> 01:10:18,088

Hiring a builder, we've

tried getting local people.

: 1277

01:10:18,978 --> 01:10:25,548

So where we've landed is we now have

a mobile construction crew, people who

: 1278

01:10:25,548 --> 01:10:27,378

are willing to travel and live on site.

: 1279

01:10:28,088 --> 01:10:30,058

Generally that's been the best for us.

: 1280

01:10:30,218 --> 01:10:33,768

That requires a lot of hands-on

management and a lot of planning.

: 1281

01:10:34,318 --> 01:10:38,208

It's not maybe the easiest way

to do it, but it's definitely the

: 1282

01:10:38,208 --> 01:10:40,428

most cost-efficient way to do it.

: 1283

01:10:41,158 --> 01:10:46,228

And so we've got 25 people living

here on the job site right now.

: 1284

01:10:46,698 --> 01:10:51,418

And I'll actually show you, we've just

rolled out all this prefab housing,

: 1285

01:10:51,738 --> 01:10:53,628

basically just air-conditioned units.

: 1286

01:10:54,278 --> 01:10:57,128

And then we've got these

showers and bathrooms.

: 1287

01:10:57,438 --> 01:11:03,468

And the advantage of that is a lot

of this infrastructure for the crew,

: 1288

01:11:03,508 --> 01:11:09,048

we end up reusing for staff to live

on site and for our laundry room

: 1289

01:11:09,048 --> 01:11:11,818

and back of house, things like that.

: 1290

01:11:12,468 --> 01:11:13,618

That seems to be going well.

: 1291

01:11:13,648 --> 01:11:15,628

And in Puerto Rico is

an additional challenge.

: 1292

01:11:16,148 --> 01:11:20,668

There's not a lot of builders,

there's not a lot of laborers

: 1293

01:11:20,668 --> 01:11:22,298

in general in Puerto Rico.

: 1294

01:11:22,538 --> 01:11:23,618

They're really hard to get.

: 1295

01:11:23,868 --> 01:11:27,478

So just bringing people from

the mainland has been huge.

: 1296

01:11:27,478 --> 01:11:30,848

We already did the test experiment with

a lot of locals and things and they were

: 1297

01:11:30,848 --> 01:11:35,568

pretty good, but it was just a little bit

more difficult, not moving quite as quick.

: 1298

01:11:39,418 --> 01:11:40,948

Brian Searl: Anybody else

have any questions for Travis?

: 1299

01:11:44,478 --> 01:11:47,068

Joy de Vos: I'm curious, how

did you come up with this idea

: 1300

01:11:47,218 --> 01:11:48,528

of doing what you're doing?

: 1301

01:11:48,528 --> 01:11:49,818

Because it sounds really exciting.

: 1302

01:11:51,048 --> 01:11:52,728

Travis Chambers: I had a

film production company.

: 1303

01:11:52,788 --> 01:11:58,408

We were making hundreds of commercials a

year for Facebook, Instagram, YouTube ads.

: 1304

01:11:59,108 --> 01:12:02,348

And one day we were

throwing away a film set.

: 1305

01:12:02,458 --> 01:12:05,428

It was a $50,000 film set

and it broke my heart.

: 1306

01:12:05,438 --> 01:12:09,118

And I thought, I would sleep in

this film set, especially if it was

: 1307

01:12:09,118 --> 01:12:12,058

out in the wilderness somewhere.

: 1308

01:12:12,648 --> 01:12:16,598

And so I sold that production company and

there were some other macro trends too.

: 1309

01:12:16,658 --> 01:12:19,918

I used to work at 20th Century Fox

and I saw that the movie industry

: 1310

01:12:20,188 --> 01:12:22,178

is reducing pretty quickly.

: 1311

01:12:22,178 --> 01:12:28,188

And I thought the digital age maybe

has reached its peak and maybe we're

: 1312

01:12:28,188 --> 01:12:34,098

going to go back to the physical in

real life experiences or alternate

: 1313

01:12:34,098 --> 01:12:38,077

reality even, you could call it,

like slightly augmented reality.

: 1314

01:12:38,738 --> 01:12:42,438

So I got really interested in that and

thought maybe that's where things are

: 1315

01:12:42,438 --> 01:12:45,238

going to go with AI and AI robotics.

: 1316

01:12:45,728 --> 01:12:48,998

People are not going to be working

on their computers as much.

: 1317

01:12:49,368 --> 01:12:52,818

There's hopefully going to be a

lot of abundance, hopefully a lot

: 1318

01:12:52,818 --> 01:12:54,827

of mobility, personal aircraft.

: 1319

01:12:55,618 --> 01:13:00,138

So I imagine people are going to want

to spend their time in really beautiful

: 1320

01:13:00,138 --> 01:13:01,858

places with unique experiences.

: 1321

01:13:01,858 --> 01:13:05,868

So I'm just really bullish

on hospitality in general.

: 1322

01:13:06,138 --> 01:13:08,148

That's why I just pivoted this direction.

: 1323

01:13:08,648 --> 01:13:10,327

And it was really interesting too.

: 1324

01:13:10,448 --> 01:13:15,198

Marc Andreessen, he's one of the most

prolific venture capitalists of all

: 1325

01:13:15,418 --> 01:13:18,738

time, he tweeted actually last week.

: 1326

01:13:18,898 --> 01:13:20,348

He said, "I co-sign."

: 1327

01:13:20,368 --> 01:13:25,848

And the tweet was, "As abundant things

become more abundant, the things that

: 1328

01:13:25,848 --> 01:13:30,208

are going to be in demand are things that

are difficult to have an abundance of."

: 1329

01:13:30,208 --> 01:13:33,618

Hotels, experiences, community.

: 1330

01:13:33,698 --> 01:13:35,608

And so I feel like that's

what we're all a part of.

: 1331

01:13:35,608 --> 01:13:38,077

And I just feel like this

niche is going to grow.

: 1332

01:13:38,418 --> 01:13:43,818

So I just wanted to do my own

little type of thing with it.

: 1333

01:13:44,577 --> 01:13:46,188

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, we've talked

about that on the show before.

: 1334

01:13:46,188 --> 01:13:49,218

Like how I think outdoor hospitality,

and I think many people agree with me,

: 1335

01:13:49,218 --> 01:13:51,718

that outdoor hospitality is perfectly

positioned for what's going to come.

: 1336

01:13:52,098 --> 01:13:54,368

Because you only have so many

rivers and so many forests and

: 1337

01:13:54,438 --> 01:13:55,638

so many trees to sit next to.

: 1338

01:13:55,698 --> 01:13:59,208

And you can't duplicate that in

any kind of AI virtual whatever.

: 1339

01:13:59,208 --> 01:14:01,568

People want to touch, they want

to feel, they want to smell.

: 1340

01:14:01,898 --> 01:14:05,608

People have been disconnected from that

stuff I think over the last 15 plus

: 1341

01:14:05,608 --> 01:14:07,148

years as we've had phones in our hands.

: 1342

01:14:07,148 --> 01:14:10,508

And I was telling my girlfriend

when we were out and down in the

: 1343

01:14:10,508 --> 01:14:14,338

Keys, like there's just not an

opportunity to be bored anymore.

: 1344

01:14:14,748 --> 01:14:17,498

And so you don't notice the waves, you

don't notice the ocean, you don't notice

: 1345

01:14:17,498 --> 01:14:19,018

the osprey, you don't notice the, right?

: 1346

01:14:19,628 --> 01:14:23,968

But that is going to be I think extremely

coveted in the future we're headed toward.

: 1347

01:14:23,968 --> 01:14:26,508

And I think all of us are perfectly

positioned to take advantage of it.

: 1348

01:14:29,327 --> 01:14:30,038

Brian Searl: So are you...

: 1349

01:14:30,958 --> 01:14:33,628

if let's say I have a question,

I have one more question for you.

: 1350

01:14:34,038 --> 01:14:38,508

If somebody were to drop a billion

dollars into your hands tomorrow,

: 1351

01:14:38,548 --> 01:14:39,648

would you build Westworld?

: 1352

01:14:41,128 --> 01:14:41,778

Travis Chambers: Probably.

: 1353

01:14:42,888 --> 01:14:46,088

It feels like you're taking baby

steps maybe towards that future

: 1354

01:14:46,088 --> 01:14:47,018

based on what you just said.

: 1355

01:14:47,048 --> 01:14:51,908

Yeah, right now I like the

40 to 60 unit projects.

: 1356

01:14:52,908 --> 01:14:58,458

I think projects can get too big where

you could risk losing the whole project.

: 1357

01:14:59,318 --> 01:15:04,508

So I feel like there's a certain

level of intimacy that you can't

: 1358

01:15:04,508 --> 01:15:07,138

really accomplish at scale.

: 1359

01:15:07,208 --> 01:15:11,308

You'll probably seen people

go from 50 units to 100 units

: 1360

01:15:12,038 --> 01:15:13,678

and start to have problems.

: 1361

01:15:13,988 --> 01:15:17,108

That's what I've noticed with some

of my friends that own projects

: 1362

01:15:18,228 --> 01:15:19,728

outside of Zion National Park.

: 1363

01:15:21,018 --> 01:15:25,458

But yeah, I think that the even

bigger vision, Brian, when you talk

: 1364

01:15:25,468 --> 01:15:29,538

about Westworld, is converting this

at some point into long-term living.

: 1365

01:15:29,908 --> 01:15:33,688

And we see that Disney is now doing

long-term living developments.

: 1366

01:15:34,608 --> 01:15:39,358

And you just think about how do

our communities change when people

: 1367

01:15:39,378 --> 01:15:41,658

aren't working on a laptop all day?

: 1368

01:15:41,778 --> 01:15:42,988

What do they do with their time?

: 1369

01:15:43,408 --> 01:15:48,338

And old European cities and even Puerto

Rican towns seem much more equipped for

: 1370

01:15:48,338 --> 01:15:53,558

that future than American towns that

are built around cars and very isolated.

: 1371

01:15:53,988 --> 01:15:59,368

And you spend a lot of time alone

and there's no mixed zoning, so

: 1372

01:15:59,368 --> 01:16:02,827

no one can have a business in your

neighborhood, which is really weird.

: 1373

01:16:03,148 --> 01:16:06,538

So I feel like you talk about

this Westworld thing, I wonder

: 1374

01:16:06,538 --> 01:16:10,128

if a Westworldification is

going to happen everywhere.

: 1375

01:16:10,488 --> 01:16:15,738

I wonder if this experientialization

and this hospitality element that

: 1376

01:16:15,738 --> 01:16:19,478

we're involved in is going to

just be everything, everywhere

: 1377

01:16:19,478 --> 01:16:20,628

is going to be like that.

: 1378

01:16:20,948 --> 01:16:25,488

Community driven, agricultural,

agrarian driven as well.

: 1379

01:16:25,998 --> 01:16:26,878

Brian Searl: I would sign up for that.

: 1380

01:16:26,878 --> 01:16:30,898

And I'm the biggest AI geek probably in

outdoor hospitality that exists, right?

: 1381

01:16:31,198 --> 01:16:32,568

But I still like to disconnect.

: 1382

01:16:32,568 --> 01:16:33,628

I still like to be immersed.

: 1383

01:16:33,628 --> 01:16:34,388

I still like to...

: 1384

01:16:34,858 --> 01:16:38,448

and I would love to get to a

place where I know everybody in my

: 1385

01:16:38,448 --> 01:16:40,148

community for a couple blocks, right?

: 1386

01:16:41,178 --> 01:16:41,888

I don't know...

: 1387

01:16:42,298 --> 01:16:44,768

I guess I could theoretically do

that now, but it'd be weird to

: 1388

01:16:44,768 --> 01:16:47,168

just walk up to people's doors and

knock and be like, "Hey, I'm your

: 1389

01:16:47,168 --> 01:16:49,158

neighbor from two streets over."

: 1390

01:16:49,188 --> 01:16:51,198

It feels weird, even though

it shouldn't be weird.

: 1391

01:16:52,368 --> 01:16:57,628

So if you can do some part to build almost

like a neighborhood that's what you're

: 1392

01:16:57,628 --> 01:16:59,888

saying is almost themed the same way.

: 1393

01:16:59,898 --> 01:17:00,184

Does that make...

: 1394

01:17:00,184 --> 01:17:03,448

and that's too maybe loose of a

word, but that brings the same

: 1395

01:17:03,488 --> 01:17:06,278

type of people together who want to

experience the same thing and thus

: 1396

01:17:06,278 --> 01:17:08,128

the community interaction is easier?

: 1397

01:17:09,608 --> 01:17:11,268

Am I going down the right path?

: 1398

01:17:11,268 --> 01:17:14,498

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, I think

we're starting to see some of that.

: 1399

01:17:14,498 --> 01:17:17,308

Travis mentioned kind of the

Disney communities and stuff.

: 1400

01:17:18,498 --> 01:17:24,938

Not my focus with our company, but other

divisions within LJA do a lot of these

: 1401

01:17:24,938 --> 01:17:31,738

master plan communities where developers

coming in to build 800, 2,000 home lots.

: 1402

01:17:32,178 --> 01:17:38,407

And at a $100,000 lot price, you've

got to sell more than just ground.

: 1403

01:17:38,988 --> 01:17:42,368

You're selling a lifestyle,

they're selling a brand.

: 1404

01:17:42,428 --> 01:17:45,398

And so we can call it theming, we

can call it immersion, we can call

: 1405

01:17:45,407 --> 01:17:47,168

it branding, whatever you want.

: 1406

01:17:47,508 --> 01:17:51,407

But we're seeing those master plan

communities with resort-style swimming

: 1407

01:17:51,407 --> 01:17:57,388

pools and top-tier amenities and

clubs that would rival a Four Seasons.

: 1408

01:17:57,758 --> 01:18:02,288

And I think when you look especially

amongst younger generations, I'll

: 1409

01:18:03,228 --> 01:18:08,407

say Gen Z especially, they're really

putting a huge emphasis on lifestyle.

: 1410

01:18:09,407 --> 01:18:12,808

You figure most of your life

is spent at work or at home.

: 1411

01:18:13,228 --> 01:18:15,218

And when you're at home,

wouldn't it be great if it

: 1412

01:18:15,218 --> 01:18:16,838

felt like you were on vacation?

: 1413

01:18:17,558 --> 01:18:20,868

So I think we're starting

to see that trend already.

: 1414

01:18:20,907 --> 01:18:24,598

And I also think that that's probably

one of the things that is pushing that

: 1415

01:18:24,598 --> 01:18:28,538

ratcheting up of guest expectations

when it does come to outdoor

: 1416

01:18:28,538 --> 01:18:30,128

hospitality and resort development.

: 1417

01:18:31,208 --> 01:18:33,558

What people have at home

is getting nicer and nicer.

: 1418

01:18:33,878 --> 01:18:39,327

So we've really got to up the ante when

it comes to creating a unique experience.

: 1419

01:18:39,327 --> 01:18:43,518

And I think Travis, to your credit,

you're probably one of the best in the

: 1420

01:18:43,518 --> 01:18:45,508

business at having accomplished that.

: 1421

01:18:47,258 --> 01:18:53,208

Brian Searl: If living at home

feels like vacation, does vacation

: 1422

01:18:53,208 --> 01:18:55,928

exist in the future or do you

just swap homes with someone else?

: 1423

01:18:57,088 --> 01:19:00,718

Jeremy Johnson: I think it's not so

much does vacation exist, but it's

: 1424

01:19:00,728 --> 01:19:02,258

wanting a different experience.

: 1425

01:19:02,278 --> 01:19:07,248

I think Travis, I remember you

talking about this on the podcast

: 1426

01:19:07,258 --> 01:19:12,918

with Alex and Matt, where it's

like you can be anywhere in 24 to

: 1427

01:19:15,518 --> 01:19:17,038

48 hours.

: 1428

01:19:17,418 --> 01:19:19,618

So your life might feel like vacation.

: 1429

01:19:19,628 --> 01:19:22,088

Like I live in Marquette, Michigan.

: 1430

01:19:22,098 --> 01:19:23,788

I'm on the shores of Lake Superior.

: 1431

01:19:23,827 --> 01:19:26,118

To me, every day is vacation.

: 1432

01:19:26,418 --> 01:19:30,858

I get to look out, I live on the biggest

freshwater lake in North America.

: 1433

01:19:31,168 --> 01:19:32,038

I love my life.

: 1434

01:19:32,278 --> 01:19:35,388

But that doesn't mean that I don't

want a completely different experience.

: 1435

01:19:35,728 --> 01:19:38,228

I might want to go to Utah

and be in the desert or go to

: 1436

01:19:38,238 --> 01:19:39,488

Santa Fe and be in the desert.

: 1437

01:19:39,548 --> 01:19:41,918

I want that different perspective.

: 1438

01:19:42,868 --> 01:19:46,138

And I think that's where that

perspective, being able to give

: 1439

01:19:46,138 --> 01:19:49,398

somebody a new perspective, that's

where there's a lot of value, I think.

: 1440

01:19:51,788 --> 01:19:52,968

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I agree with that.

: 1441

01:19:52,978 --> 01:19:56,388

I think that we as a species, we're

really obsessed with storytelling.

: 1442

01:19:57,108 --> 01:20:00,488

And the storytellers

generally run society.

: 1443

01:20:01,478 --> 01:20:02,018

The Aristotles, the

: 1444

01:20:05,488 --> 01:20:05,498

Shakespeares.

: 1445

01:20:06,248 --> 01:20:10,698

Or if our life is playing infinite

games, then who's the game maker?

: 1446

01:20:10,858 --> 01:20:12,258

Whose games are we playing?

: 1447

01:20:12,448 --> 01:20:15,988

And you see how big the video

game industry is exploding.

: 1448

01:20:15,988 --> 01:20:18,688

It's multiples and multiples

of the film industry now.

: 1449

01:20:19,448 --> 01:20:23,248

And I think what happens is when

a species gets more wealthy, they

: 1450

01:20:23,248 --> 01:20:25,468

start living more like aristocrats.

: 1451

01:20:25,818 --> 01:20:31,688

So it almost becomes post-monetary

where your exchange of value is your

: 1452

01:20:31,688 --> 01:20:36,488

style and your personality and your

experiences and your perspectives,

: 1453

01:20:36,538 --> 01:20:38,608

just like Jeremy said, and your art.

: 1454

01:20:39,168 --> 01:20:42,958

And so if we do survive this AI thing

and it does bring a lot of abundance

: 1455

01:20:42,968 --> 01:20:47,458

and prosperity, then it seems like

that exchange will possibly become

: 1456

01:20:47,458 --> 01:20:49,838

one of the most valuable currencies.

: 1457

01:20:50,077 --> 01:20:51,628

It will be, right?

: 1458

01:20:51,657 --> 01:20:56,077

It will be Jeremy walking out and

looking at this lake because he

: 1459

01:20:56,077 --> 01:21:01,858

doesn't have to live in Milwaukee

anymore to make a living.

: 1460

01:21:02,388 --> 01:21:04,318

He can live anywhere he wants.

: 1461

01:21:05,077 --> 01:21:08,768

And because of that, he's this

really interesting character and

: 1462

01:21:09,708 --> 01:21:13,318

it just seems like that is possibly

going to be where things go.

: 1463

01:21:13,327 --> 01:21:15,518

It'll be interesting to see.

: 1464

01:21:17,378 --> 01:21:20,938

Jeremy Johnson: I'm curious,

Joy, we haven't talked about your

: 1465

01:21:20,938 --> 01:21:24,488

property too much yet, but I'm

guessing you're on a dairy farm.

: 1466

01:21:24,518 --> 01:21:28,577

Is that an experience in British Columbia

that people are seeking because they

: 1467

01:21:28,577 --> 01:21:33,028

want to get out of the city or what was

the idea and inspiration behind that?

: 1468

01:21:34,628 --> 01:21:37,668

Joy de Vos: I guess my inspiration

comes from being a 4-H leader.

: 1469

01:21:37,818 --> 01:21:42,058

I've been a 4-H leader for 20 years

and in this time I've mentored over 200

: 1470

01:21:42,077 --> 01:21:46,818

children to learn more about dairy, learn

more about agriculture, being able to be

: 1471

01:21:46,827 --> 01:21:49,508

public speakers and leaders for tomorrow.

: 1472

01:21:49,548 --> 01:21:54,358

And along the way, I've encountered

people that couldn't tell that a

: 1473

01:21:54,718 --> 01:21:56,808

bull calf was actually not a goat.

: 1474

01:21:58,407 --> 01:21:58,918

Brian Searl: That would be me.

: 1475

01:21:59,577 --> 01:22:03,188

Joy de Vos: Yeah, and when I had

21-year-olds making that kind of comment

: 1476

01:22:03,208 --> 01:22:06,168

when I did a petting zoo, I thought,

oh my goodness, we're so out of touch.

: 1477

01:22:06,708 --> 01:22:10,528

And so I decided with my

husband that we would do an

: 1478

01:22:10,528 --> 01:22:12,327

educational experience for people.

: 1479

01:22:12,608 --> 01:22:17,068

It first started off with just doing

dairy tours and working on how we

: 1480

01:22:17,068 --> 01:22:18,728

farm it with the riparian area.

: 1481

01:22:18,918 --> 01:22:22,278

We are a working dairy farm, third

generation, and we're hoping that

: 1482

01:22:22,618 --> 01:22:24,428

it'll go on to the fourth generation.

: 1483

01:22:24,838 --> 01:22:27,618

So along our discussions, we

decided, let's do a campground.

: 1484

01:22:28,188 --> 01:22:28,988

That sounds like fun.

: 1485

01:22:29,338 --> 01:22:30,998

And then we talked about doing a store.

: 1486

01:22:30,998 --> 01:22:33,008

We'll have a little store

to service the campground.

: 1487

01:22:33,268 --> 01:22:36,928

And then it became my husband moving

his stuff out of his shop and me turning

: 1488

01:22:36,928 --> 01:22:38,657

it into a cute little general store.

: 1489

01:22:39,008 --> 01:22:41,758

So you feel like you've come back in

time because it looks like the late

: 1490

01:22:41,768 --> 01:22:45,648

: 1800

inside the store and get a coffee.

: 1491

01:22:46,138 --> 01:22:49,978

You can go feed the chickens, you

can camp on the farm, you can do

: 1492

01:22:49,978 --> 01:22:53,378

an actual dairy tour or you can do

a milking dairy tour where you get

: 1493

01:22:53,378 --> 01:22:55,868

to go in there and milk the cows.

: 1494

01:22:55,878 --> 01:22:57,898

And if you're lucky,

maybe you get shit on.

: 1495

01:22:57,958 --> 01:22:58,808

An experience!

: 1496

01:23:01,048 --> 01:23:04,827

And there's so many people out of

touch with agriculture and in our

: 1497

01:23:04,827 --> 01:23:07,688

area, we're starting to see more

and more people wanting to get

: 1498

01:23:07,698 --> 01:23:09,327

back in touch with their roots.

: 1499

01:23:09,358 --> 01:23:12,838

And we would like to offer

that opportunity to people

: 1500

01:23:12,848 --> 01:23:13,688

who live in the city.

: 1501

01:23:13,798 --> 01:23:15,928

Maybe they don't have a

backyard, they can't do a garden.

: 1502

01:23:16,327 --> 01:23:17,218

Come and check out our

: 1503

01:23:19,298 --> 01:23:19,368

property.

: 1504

01:23:19,368 --> 01:23:20,698

Travis Chambers: Zach, have

you guys seen that Netflix show

: 1505

01:23:20,748 --> 01:23:22,077

called "This is a Gardening Show"?

: 1506

01:23:22,948 --> 01:23:23,918

Zach Stoltenberg: No, I haven't.

: 1507

01:23:24,518 --> 01:23:26,898

Travis Chambers: Oh, it's pretty cool.

: 1508

01:23:26,898 --> 01:23:30,407

He makes like the whole point that

the future of everything is agrarian.

: 1509

01:23:30,698 --> 01:23:35,238

In that the more abundant we are, the

more we will all go back to an agrarian

: 1510

01:23:35,238 --> 01:23:39,718

society where we're farming and that will

be our identity and how we spend our time.

: 1511

01:23:40,618 --> 01:23:42,788

Jeremy Johnson: I can't help but

think of, I don't know if anybody's

: 1512

01:23:42,788 --> 01:23:47,288

familiar, but there's a very luxury

high-end development, I think it's

: 1513

01:23:47,288 --> 01:23:52,678

called CERES in Chattahoochee Hills,

Georgia, just outside of Atlanta.

: 1514

01:23:53,258 --> 01:23:59,438

And it is completely agricultural

based and very food focused.

: 1515

01:23:59,838 --> 01:24:03,558

They're growing food, but then

also cooking on site, and we're

: 1516

01:24:03,558 --> 01:24:05,938

talking million-dollar lots.

: 1517

01:24:06,428 --> 01:24:09,988

It's exactly, Travis, what you're talking

about, Joy, what you're talking about.

: 1518

01:24:09,998 --> 01:24:14,288

These people have everything they could

ever want, but yet they're going back

: 1519

01:24:14,288 --> 01:24:19,208

to this from-the-earth movement, and

there's this massive price tag on it

: 1520

01:24:19,258 --> 01:24:21,008

because they're just outside of Atlanta.

: 1521

01:24:21,638 --> 01:24:25,038

Zach Stoltenberg: I think another thing

that we've been seeing here recently

: 1522

01:24:25,038 --> 01:24:29,628

with this growth, this focus on health

and wellness, especially amongst people

: 1523

01:24:29,688 --> 01:24:34,188

that have got more money than they will

probably spend in their lifetime, or

: 1524

01:24:34,548 --> 01:24:36,138

even that their children can spend.

: 1525

01:24:36,978 --> 01:24:42,338

Their focus shifts from material

things into living the best life of

: 1526

01:24:42,358 --> 01:24:43,748

the years that they have remaining.

: 1527

01:24:43,748 --> 01:24:48,648

Feeling good, feeling you can do

whatever you want, and that recentral

: 1528

01:24:48,648 --> 01:24:54,598

focus on health, longevity, wellness,

and a huge part of that is diet.

: 1529

01:24:54,848 --> 01:25:00,068

So I think all of these experiences that

we're trying to create to attract that

: 1530

01:25:00,068 --> 01:25:05,028

type of a customer base, it's not just the

theming and the immersion and all of that.

: 1531

01:25:05,448 --> 01:25:09,548

In order to hit that authenticity

feel that is driving outdoor,

: 1532

01:25:09,577 --> 01:25:11,458

it's got to be holistic.

: 1533

01:25:11,468 --> 01:25:16,378

It's got to be the food, learning

about it, tending it, meeting

: 1534

01:25:16,378 --> 01:25:20,028

the staff that are cooking it and

growing it, and it's got to come full

: 1535

01:25:20,038 --> 01:25:21,827

circle with all those components.

: 1536

01:25:23,048 --> 01:25:24,128

Brian Searl: Yeah, I agree with that.

: 1537

01:25:24,428 --> 01:25:27,218

I'm always one of those people who's

trying to learn as much as they can.

: 1538

01:25:27,218 --> 01:25:30,048

So when we were down in Key West,

I was going to the farmers markets,

: 1539

01:25:30,048 --> 01:25:34,148

learning about the pink shrimp and

the lobsters and the stone crab and

: 1540

01:25:34,148 --> 01:25:35,348

all the things they have down there.

: 1541

01:25:35,468 --> 01:25:37,327

Then trying to figure out where

can I get it from the markets and

: 1542

01:25:37,327 --> 01:25:40,508

how can I cook it in my glamping

accommodation that I was in.

: 1543

01:25:40,508 --> 01:25:44,358

So I think that for sure, it's not

farming, but it's the same from the sea.

: 1544

01:25:45,208 --> 01:25:48,108

It's figuring out how that all connects

to each other, to the experience.

: 1545

01:25:48,118 --> 01:25:48,278

We

: 1546

01:25:54,258 --> 01:25:56,598

stayed at a couple glamping

accommodations, I would call them

: 1547

01:25:56,598 --> 01:26:01,558

glamping, that were basically

cottages that this guy built on

: 1548

01:26:01,577 --> 01:26:04,278

top of catamarans in Key West.

: 1549

01:26:05,077 --> 01:26:06,798

They rent for something like $500 a night.

: 1550

01:26:07,338 --> 01:26:11,268

I think they're called Outpost 1 and 2

from a company called Mellow Ventures.

: 1551

01:26:12,388 --> 01:26:14,318

There's a couple competitors

down there, but it's very rare.

: 1552

01:26:14,378 --> 01:26:17,098

He's basically built these custom

cottages that float on catamarans.

: 1553

01:26:17,098 --> 01:26:19,818

They're anchored in the middle

of the harbor in Key West in

: 1554

01:26:19,818 --> 01:26:21,268

four-foot crystal clear water.

: 1555

01:26:21,668 --> 01:26:25,468

You go out there and there's no air

conditioning, you're just out there in

: 1556

01:26:25,608 --> 01:26:26,978

this cabin in the middle of the water.

: 1557

01:26:26,998 --> 01:26:29,398

We stayed there for three nights

and it was one of the most

: 1558

01:26:29,398 --> 01:26:31,168

relaxing things I think I've done.

: 1559

01:26:31,657 --> 01:26:35,798

Just being disconnected and being able

to cook my fresh food from the market,

: 1560

01:26:36,758 --> 01:26:40,728

learning about the shrimp and the fish and

the types of stuff that's swimming by me.

: 1561

01:26:42,568 --> 01:26:43,958

I'm a buyer, I'm a believer in that.

: 1562

01:26:46,198 --> 01:26:48,098

Maybe that's your next idea, Travis.

: 1563

01:26:48,508 --> 01:26:50,388

We go from Westworld to Waterworld.

: 1564

01:26:51,458 --> 01:26:52,208

Travis Chambers: It's funny, we...

: 1565

01:26:52,488 --> 01:26:54,398

Brian Searl: But it's got to

be better than Waterworld, man.

: 1566

01:26:54,398 --> 01:26:56,618

That's a very low bar for a movie to set.

: 1567

01:26:58,558 --> 01:27:01,327

Travis Chambers: It's funny, we have been

looking at barges and catamarans here in

: 1568

01:27:01,348 --> 01:27:04,028

Puerto Rico to do that kind of experience.

: 1569

01:27:08,518 --> 01:27:10,198

Brian Searl: Yeah, it's one

of the most unique things

: 1570

01:27:10,198 --> 01:27:11,788

that I've ever seen and done.

: 1571

01:27:11,848 --> 01:27:12,958

And he built it really well.

: 1572

01:27:14,938 --> 01:27:16,657

Travis Chambers: It's so funny,

we were literally talking last

: 1573

01:27:16,657 --> 01:27:18,168

week about doing a catamaran.

: 1574

01:27:18,168 --> 01:27:22,128

I'm thinking, why don't we

just buy a barge and build a

: 1575

01:27:22,128 --> 01:27:23,208

little village on the barge?

: 1576

01:27:24,948 --> 01:27:26,718

This is cool, this is really inspiring.

: 1577

01:27:27,378 --> 01:27:30,918

Jeremy Johnson: There's a project,

I think it's just outside of Toledo.

: 1578

01:27:31,368 --> 01:27:34,528

I'd have to look on the map, but

it's in the middle of nowhere

: 1579

01:27:34,528 --> 01:27:36,928

Ohio and it's on Lake Erie.

: 1580

01:27:38,028 --> 01:27:44,788

This younger guy bought a commercial

marina with 14 slips, and I think he gets

: 1581

01:27:45,548 --> 01:27:50,058

an average of four or $500 a night because

he turned it into this little micro

: 1582

01:27:50,058 --> 01:27:52,318

resort where everything's on the water.

: 1583

01:27:52,918 --> 01:27:56,428

He's got little food trucks that pull up

to his marina, and it's just this whole

: 1584

01:27:56,428 --> 01:28:02,628

experience that you typically wouldn't

get in this post-industrial area that was

: 1585

01:28:02,868 --> 01:28:05,898

nothing but iron ore shipping in the past.

: 1586

01:28:05,907 --> 01:28:08,108

It's cool that he was

able to turn that around.

: 1587

01:28:09,308 --> 01:28:13,338

I think we all talk about how land

is becoming more and more a scarce

: 1588

01:28:13,338 --> 01:28:17,518

commodity, but water even more

so, especially nice fresh water

: 1589

01:28:17,518 --> 01:28:19,488

or even nice sea water as well.

: 1590

01:28:25,018 --> 01:28:27,368

Brian Searl: Joy, where do

you see Foxtrot Dairy going?

: 1591

01:28:27,368 --> 01:28:29,508

You said it was new, the

campground side of it?

: 1592

01:28:30,077 --> 01:28:33,128

Joy de Vos: Yeah, it took us a while

to get the campground up and running

: 1593

01:28:33,138 --> 01:28:36,808

because it's my husband and I that

are trying to forge ahead with it.

: 1594

01:28:36,907 --> 01:28:39,678

We have limited capital to

getting it started up, but I

: 1595

01:28:39,688 --> 01:28:40,898

think we've done really well.

: 1596

01:28:42,628 --> 01:28:47,448

We're held at a capacity of 10 campsites

because we're on the agricultural land

: 1597

01:28:47,448 --> 01:28:54,968

reserve, and so that means that we have to

preserve it for farming as a main economy.

: 1598

01:28:56,258 --> 01:28:59,608

The campground itself is really

just there for the educational

: 1599

01:28:59,608 --> 01:29:00,958

aspect of dairy farming.

: 1600

01:29:06,888 --> 01:29:10,118

We have 10 campsites, two of

them are full hookup service.

: 1601

01:29:10,118 --> 01:29:14,248

We have a septic system, we have

actual showers, not porta-potties.

: 1602

01:29:15,698 --> 01:29:21,198

We have it planned to set up as

a little village eventually as we

: 1603

01:29:21,958 --> 01:29:24,288

gain the capital to invest into it.

: 1604

01:29:25,188 --> 01:29:29,438

The hope is that people will set it as a

journey destination for their families,

: 1605

01:29:29,438 --> 01:29:33,398

that they'll all come here and do their

family reunions and see the cows going

: 1606

01:29:33,398 --> 01:29:34,858

back and forth from the campground.

: 1607

01:29:35,148 --> 01:29:38,758

You can see the dry cows going back

and forth, you can see our horse, and

: 1608

01:29:38,758 --> 01:29:40,438

our goats are within the campground.

: 1609

01:29:41,048 --> 01:29:45,118

So it really is a little farm

that we're trying to set up there,

: 1610

01:29:45,358 --> 01:29:46,798

and you're right beside the farm.

: 1611

01:29:47,088 --> 01:29:49,448

On the other side of the

bushes is the farm, and you

: 1612

01:29:49,448 --> 01:29:50,988

don't actually hear the cows.

: 1613

01:29:51,338 --> 01:29:53,038

It's amazing what a bush can do.

: 1614

01:29:54,518 --> 01:29:58,848

The store is open, people are able to

come over and be on the main farmyard.

: 1615

01:29:59,628 --> 01:30:03,798

We're really just hoping that schools

and people that are interested in

: 1616

01:30:03,798 --> 01:30:08,498

learning about where their milk comes

from, how we farm, why we farm, why

: 1617

01:30:08,498 --> 01:30:10,738

are the decisions that we make made.

: 1618

01:30:11,038 --> 01:30:15,858

They're made because we have to work

within our ability with our land, and

: 1619

01:30:15,878 --> 01:30:20,228

within the nutrition of the animals, and

with staying environmentally friendly.

: 1620

01:30:20,388 --> 01:30:25,258

So we have a lot of hoops to jump through,

and the agricultural land reserve is a

: 1621

01:30:25,258 --> 01:30:27,418

special land that's put aside for farming.

: 1622

01:30:28,318 --> 01:30:34,327

I see us enjoying and meeting lots of

people from around the country, maybe

: 1623

01:30:34,327 --> 01:30:38,378

around other countries, to come and

just really have a great experience.

: 1624

01:30:38,378 --> 01:30:43,088

I think for us, seeing a child learn

that milk comes from a cow, I've seen it.

: 1625

01:30:43,288 --> 01:30:45,148

Kids are like, "Wow, that happens?"

: 1626

01:30:45,468 --> 01:30:47,738

And they're like, "That's

where my ice cream comes from?"

: 1627

01:30:47,808 --> 01:30:49,577

Yes, that's where your

ice cream comes from.

: 1628

01:30:50,678 --> 01:30:52,278

Brian Searl: The most important thing

that comes from a cow, ice cream.

: 1629

01:30:53,118 --> 01:30:54,388

Joy de Vos: Oh yeah, it is.

: 1630

01:30:55,028 --> 01:30:55,528

That butter.

: 1631

01:30:56,888 --> 01:31:00,868

When people come to our

store, we have products from

: 1632

01:31:00,868 --> 01:31:02,238

little mom-and-pop businesses.

: 1633

01:31:02,898 --> 01:31:07,068

So really just trying to support that

local community as much as possible,

: 1634

01:31:07,068 --> 01:31:11,538

working together and showcasing healthy,

nutritious products, thinking about what

: 1635

01:31:11,538 --> 01:31:14,378

people need to live a happy, healthy life.

: 1636

01:31:16,028 --> 01:31:17,358

I don't know, I'm still learning.

: 1637

01:31:17,577 --> 01:31:21,438

This is exciting and it's

nerve-wracking all at the same time,

: 1638

01:31:21,588 --> 01:31:23,588

but I look forward to my plans.

: 1639

01:31:24,298 --> 01:31:25,758

Brian Searl: If you ever stop

learning, you'll be bored,

: 1640

01:31:25,758 --> 01:31:26,798

so I hope you keep learning.

: 1641

01:31:27,788 --> 01:31:31,068

Is it just RV or do you have any

intentions to add accommodations like

: 1642

01:31:31,068 --> 01:31:32,738

cabins or glamping or anything out there?

: 1643

01:31:33,478 --> 01:31:34,728

Joy de Vos: I do want to add glamping.

: 1644

01:31:34,958 --> 01:31:40,348

I want to make a miniature village of our

farm, but that again requires capital.

: 1645

01:31:40,928 --> 01:31:45,848

I would like to make a replica of our

actual farm within there and have themed

: 1646

01:31:45,888 --> 01:31:51,398

cabins for the milk house, the calf

barn, the shop, and with educational

: 1647

01:31:51,398 --> 01:31:53,268

history pictures on the inside.

: 1648

01:31:53,608 --> 01:31:56,898

I have the designs already, I just

don't have the capital to get it going.

: 1649

01:31:57,358 --> 01:32:02,668

So in time, I plan to have all the

sites hooked up and all with power,

: 1650

01:32:03,218 --> 01:32:06,368

but we know power is expensive, so

that'll take a little bit of time.

: 1651

01:32:06,488 --> 01:32:09,698

But when it's all set up and

done, it'll be a really cute place

: 1652

01:32:09,698 --> 01:32:10,878

that people will want to come to.

: 1653

01:32:11,128 --> 01:32:13,938

Then I hope while they're here,

they see the wineries and the

: 1654

01:32:13,938 --> 01:32:18,748

other dairy farms near us and just

really get to know the agricultural

: 1655

01:32:18,748 --> 01:32:20,348

footprint within our communities.

: 1656

01:32:21,657 --> 01:32:24,218

Brian Searl: It is one of the

hardest things, and I'll just

: 1657

01:32:24,218 --> 01:32:25,327

admit this from my perspective.

: 1658

01:32:25,327 --> 01:32:27,778

It's been one of the hardest things

I've learned over the last few years,

: 1659

01:32:28,928 --> 01:32:32,657

running my business, working 110 hours

a week for 15 plus years, seven days

: 1660

01:32:32,657 --> 01:32:34,028

a week, because I love what I do.

: 1661

01:32:34,848 --> 01:32:37,438

It's really been hard for me to

immerse myself into the type of

: 1662

01:32:37,458 --> 01:32:38,728

experience, to go to the places.

: 1663

01:32:38,878 --> 01:32:43,077

I take a vacation, but I realized

two years ago that I was walking

: 1664

01:32:43,077 --> 01:32:45,058

along a beach, I think it was

actually in Vancouver Island.

: 1665

01:32:46,818 --> 01:32:49,157

I realized I'm walking along this

beach and I'm thinking about business.

: 1666

01:32:49,788 --> 01:32:52,388

I'm not appreciating that I'm on

a beach, I'm not appreciating the

: 1667

01:32:52,388 --> 01:32:55,208

ocean is right here, appreciating

there's a time to disconnect.

: 1668

01:32:55,888 --> 01:32:59,788

So I've tried to reframe that thinking,

but it's hard in the modern world for

: 1669

01:32:59,838 --> 01:33:03,188

a lot of people to get to that place

with all the distractions that we have

: 1670

01:33:03,188 --> 01:33:04,818

and opportunities to not be bored.

: 1671

01:33:05,338 --> 01:33:08,748

Is that just me or is that sentiment

out there with more of you?

: 1672

01:33:08,748 --> 01:33:15,657

Joy de Vos: I find that all the time.

: 1673

01:33:15,657 --> 01:33:16,588

Jeremy Johnson: I don't

think it's just you.

: 1674

01:33:16,827 --> 01:33:20,798

I will say as somebody who lives in the

upper Midwest, I think that's the thing

: 1675

01:33:20,798 --> 01:33:22,938

I appreciate the most about seasons.

: 1676

01:33:23,048 --> 01:33:27,748

The seasons make you slow down,

whether it's winter or spring or fall.

: 1677

01:33:27,758 --> 01:33:27,778

We

: 1678

01:33:30,728 --> 01:33:34,438

got over 300 inches of snow this

year where I live in Ishpeming.

: 1679

01:33:34,808 --> 01:33:39,488

When you have that kind of snow,

you can't just go out the door

: 1680

01:33:39,548 --> 01:33:41,028

and go to wherever you're going.

: 1681

01:33:41,038 --> 01:33:43,688

You have to slow down,

you have to move the snow.

: 1682

01:33:44,958 --> 01:33:46,758

At least for me, it makes

me think differently.

: 1683

01:33:46,968 --> 01:33:51,077

Instead of just rushing out the door

and hopping in my car, I think, you

: 1684

01:33:51,077 --> 01:33:55,478

know what, it might be easier and more

fun if I skied down to the coffee shop.

: 1685

01:33:57,318 --> 01:33:58,938

That's what I did multiple

times this winter.

: 1686

01:34:00,327 --> 01:34:03,898

That makes life a little bit more fun

to have that disconnect and get out of

: 1687

01:34:03,898 --> 01:34:08,498

that regular pattern of thinking about

business or the most efficient or the

: 1688

01:34:09,068 --> 01:34:11,148

biggest ROI you can get on a project.

: 1689

01:34:11,157 --> 01:34:12,598

Brian Searl: That's why I

really like the houseboats.

: 1690

01:34:12,827 --> 01:34:16,987

We had to take a boat out there from the

marina, a 10, 15-minute ride out from

: 1691

01:34:16,987 --> 01:34:20,608

the boatyard, and we couldn't leave.

: 1692

01:34:20,898 --> 01:34:23,808

We could call somebody if we wanted

to and pay for a boat, but we

: 1693

01:34:23,808 --> 01:34:24,728

were in the middle of the water.

: 1694

01:34:25,077 --> 01:34:26,778

We weren't going anywhere

even if I wanted to.

: 1695

01:34:26,958 --> 01:34:29,288

So we had to go grocery shopping,

we had to bring our provisions,

: 1696

01:34:29,718 --> 01:34:31,818

we had ice coolers, we didn't

have a full refrigerator.

: 1697

01:34:31,818 --> 01:34:35,968

We had to think and plan and

clearly disconnect and understand

: 1698

01:34:35,968 --> 01:34:38,327

what we needed, and it was great.

: 1699

01:34:39,208 --> 01:34:42,538

Jeremy Johnson: One of my favorite places

is actually in the Upper Peninsula,

: 1700

01:34:42,538 --> 01:34:45,248

about 50 minutes away from where I live.

: 1701

01:34:45,398 --> 01:34:46,778

It's called the Huron Mountain Club.

: 1702

01:34:47,568 --> 01:34:52,258

When you go up that club road and you

pass through the gates, you've got no

: 1703

01:34:52,258 --> 01:34:54,368

service, you're completely disconnected.

: 1704

01:34:54,378 --> 01:35:01,737

The closest store to get gas, food,

anything, water, is probably 45 minutes

: 1705

01:35:01,737 --> 01:35:03,508

down the road, and it's a dirt road.

: 1706

01:35:05,907 --> 01:35:08,198

It brings on a little bit of

anxiety because you're wondering,

: 1707

01:35:08,198 --> 01:35:09,407

did I forget something?

: 1708

01:35:09,798 --> 01:35:12,558

But then as you settle in,

you realize it doesn't matter.

: 1709

01:35:12,558 --> 01:35:15,698

You might think, oh shoot, I forgot

my phone charger, and you realize,

: 1710

01:35:15,698 --> 01:35:17,577

you know what, I'm here, who cares?

: 1711

01:35:18,058 --> 01:35:20,788

That feeling is invaluable to have.

: 1712

01:35:22,188 --> 01:35:27,038

On that same note, one of the

future projects I'm working on is

: 1713

01:35:27,168 --> 01:35:31,588

on the shores of Lake Superior,

and one of the components of it is

: 1714

01:35:32,478 --> 01:35:37,088

a private beach that you can only

access by walking through a wetland.

: 1715

01:35:37,088 --> 01:35:41,818

We're going to be building a raised

boardwalk to get to that wetland and

: 1716

01:35:41,818 --> 01:35:47,758

it's probably about a thousand feet

of boardwalk, but it's a 10, 15 minute

: 1717

01:35:47,768 --> 01:35:51,758

walk and it's like you're walking

through pretty deep thick wetland

: 1718

01:35:52,077 --> 01:35:54,798

and you might get bit by a mosquito.

: 1719

01:35:54,848 --> 01:35:58,643

Like there might, you might get

hit in the face with a branch.

: 1720

01:35:58,643 --> 01:35:59,327

That's fine.

: 1721

01:35:59,327 --> 01:36:03,048

There's an element of uncomfortableness

to it, but then you get to that

: 1722

01:36:03,058 --> 01:36:06,528

beach and I'm sure Travis, it's

probably like you walk through the

: 1723

01:36:06,528 --> 01:36:08,157

jungle to get to the waterfalls.

: 1724

01:36:08,487 --> 01:36:11,418

Like you get to that beach

and everything just changes.

: 1725

01:36:11,418 --> 01:36:12,958

You're like, this was worth it.

: 1726

01:36:13,648 --> 01:36:14,898

I call it type two fun.

: 1727

01:36:15,168 --> 01:36:18,038

Walking to that waterfall might

not have been fun, but then you get

: 1728

01:36:18,038 --> 01:36:21,308

there, you see how beautiful it is

and you're like, it was all worth it.

: 1729

01:36:21,308 --> 01:36:22,288

None of it matters now.

: 1730

01:36:23,237 --> 01:36:25,568

Brian Searl: I just, you need to give

me a bug suit, man, because I'm the one

: 1731

01:36:25,568 --> 01:36:30,008

guy in the world where every mosquito

will find me from 10 miles away, man.

: 1732

01:36:30,998 --> 01:36:31,768

They all like me.

: 1733

01:36:31,878 --> 01:36:32,577

But I would agree with you.

: 1734

01:36:32,577 --> 01:36:34,628

Yeah, forgetting the phone

charger, there are certain things

: 1735

01:36:34,628 --> 01:36:35,588

that you don't want to forget.

: 1736

01:36:35,598 --> 01:36:38,608

We got out to the boat and realized

we forgot the tequila and the cocktail

: 1737

01:36:38,608 --> 01:36:39,928

mix in the car, so we had to go back.

: 1738

01:36:40,548 --> 01:36:41,388

10 minute ride.

: 1739

01:36:42,178 --> 01:36:45,478

Jeremy Johnson: Brian, I've got to jump

early today, but I appreciate being on

: 1740

01:36:45,588 --> 01:36:49,038

and getting to talk with all of you and

good luck for the last 15 minutes here.

: 1741

01:36:49,848 --> 01:36:50,388

Brian Searl: Thanks, Jeremy.

: 1742

01:36:50,398 --> 01:36:51,128

Appreciate you being here.

: 1743

01:36:51,678 --> 01:36:52,098

Jeremy Johnson: Bye guys.

: 1744

01:36:55,018 --> 01:36:57,368

Brian Searl: So how do we

keep moving this conversation

: 1745

01:36:57,368 --> 01:36:58,788

forward in outdoor hospitality?

: 1746

01:36:58,848 --> 01:37:00,948

How do we get more people into

the way of thinking that...

: 1747

01:37:00,998 --> 01:37:03,548

and we've talked about experiential

hospitality for a couple years, right?

: 1748

01:37:04,168 --> 01:37:04,718

Loosely.

: 1749

01:37:05,138 --> 01:37:08,268

Never anything probably as in-depth

as Travis being on the show,

: 1750

01:37:08,268 --> 01:37:10,048

right, with experiences like that.

: 1751

01:37:11,338 --> 01:37:14,648

But does the outdoor hospitality industry

need to reframe some of the thinking

: 1752

01:37:14,698 --> 01:37:18,518

or are we headed in the right direction

already or what do you think, Zach?

: 1753

01:37:18,538 --> 01:37:20,038

You work with a lot of these businesses.

: 1754

01:37:22,318 --> 01:37:24,468

Zach Stoltenberg: I don't

know that I would say reframe.

: 1755

01:37:24,698 --> 01:37:27,478

One of the things I love

about this industry is that

: 1756

01:37:27,487 --> 01:37:28,737

there's room for everyone.

: 1757

01:37:29,288 --> 01:37:33,128

And I don't know that there's any one

right way or wrong way of doing it.

: 1758

01:37:33,128 --> 01:37:36,758

And that's probably a perspective for

me that's changed a lot over the years.

: 1759

01:37:37,248 --> 01:37:40,878

Early on in doing these, the majority

of the folks we were working with

: 1760

01:37:40,878 --> 01:37:43,368

had a lot of capital behind them.

: 1761

01:37:43,478 --> 01:37:46,478

There was a lot of money available

and people were doing that.

: 1762

01:37:46,508 --> 01:37:49,633

But seeing what Joy and her husband

are doing, saying, "Hey, we're going

: 1763

01:37:49,633 --> 01:37:51,458

to do this a little bit at a time.

: 1764

01:37:51,508 --> 01:37:53,338

We're going to be restricted by capital.

: 1765

01:37:53,718 --> 01:37:55,478

We're going to start

small and make this work."

: 1766

01:37:55,608 --> 01:37:58,568

I see a lot of people that have done

that and done so very successfully.

: 1767

01:37:58,668 --> 01:38:02,668

And maybe their first one was that

way, then it started to take off and

: 1768

01:38:02,668 --> 01:38:06,518

getting a loan or some investment

to expand or move to their second or

: 1769

01:38:06,518 --> 01:38:08,838

third site, that became a lot easier.

: 1770

01:38:09,327 --> 01:38:13,048

But I think Travis, you

mentioned Ben Wolff earlier.

: 1771

01:38:13,118 --> 01:38:18,178

I think we're seeing a lot of innovators

in this space that are coming in that

: 1772

01:38:18,178 --> 01:38:19,778

are figuring out what works for them.

: 1773

01:38:20,168 --> 01:38:25,788

You don't have to spend two grand a

month with Google and Meta for ads

: 1774

01:38:25,788 --> 01:38:27,987

for marketing for your place, right?

: 1775

01:38:28,018 --> 01:38:31,418

These guys have worked with

influencers, they've built social media

: 1776

01:38:31,418 --> 01:38:34,978

campaigns, millions of followers, and

they're doing only direct booking.

: 1777

01:38:35,398 --> 01:38:38,858

Where a lot of other campgrounds

would say, "Oh gosh, we get so

: 1778

01:38:38,858 --> 01:38:40,268

much off of our Facebook ads.

: 1779

01:38:40,288 --> 01:38:42,157

It's the most successful marketing we do."

: 1780

01:38:42,827 --> 01:38:43,978

So I don't know.

: 1781

01:38:45,338 --> 01:38:48,978

I guess it's a roundabout way of saying

I don't know what the answer is to that.

: 1782

01:38:48,987 --> 01:38:50,478

Like where do we go from here?

: 1783

01:38:50,898 --> 01:38:55,268

I think certainly there's something

to be learned for people who are

: 1784

01:38:55,268 --> 01:38:58,618

doing it, have tried something new

and are really successful with it.

: 1785

01:38:59,038 --> 01:39:03,798

And Travis, I'm sure you're

starting to see too, you captured

: 1786

01:39:03,798 --> 01:39:06,178

this sort of lightning in a

bottle with your first site, you

: 1787

01:39:06,278 --> 01:39:08,327

built a massive online following.

: 1788

01:39:08,678 --> 01:39:12,838

I'm anxious to see, does that carry

over into a second site, a third site?

: 1789

01:39:12,848 --> 01:39:14,948

Does that carry over into

a site out of the country?

: 1790

01:39:15,398 --> 01:39:20,237

And then how does that shape

your journey of what's next?

: 1791

01:39:20,418 --> 01:39:21,318

Any thoughts on that?

: 1792

01:39:24,157 --> 01:39:27,628

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I think it

just comes down to a good story.

: 1793

01:39:27,938 --> 01:39:31,378

Like Joy is a story, right?

: 1794

01:39:32,368 --> 01:39:36,868

She's been doing the

farming club for 20 years.

: 1795

01:39:37,288 --> 01:39:39,368

This is her life, right?

: 1796

01:39:39,398 --> 01:39:40,487

This is her lifestyle.

: 1797

01:39:40,628 --> 01:39:45,358

And there's something romantic about

entering someone else's lifestyle.

: 1798

01:39:45,487 --> 01:39:46,608

It's a cultural experience.

: 1799

01:39:46,608 --> 01:39:50,458

And so it really, it's just

that's what culture is.

: 1800

01:39:50,598 --> 01:39:54,987

And I think in the United States,

cultures are very disjointed.

: 1801

01:39:55,348 --> 01:40:00,788

And I think what we're talking

about exists in a lot of deep

: 1802

01:40:00,788 --> 01:40:02,327

cultures in the world already.

: 1803

01:40:03,518 --> 01:40:06,768

Morocco is a hospitality zone.

: 1804

01:40:07,038 --> 01:40:10,068

There's just this richness, there's

a certain type of food, there's

: 1805

01:40:10,068 --> 01:40:13,487

a certain type of tradition,

there's a certain type of clothing.

: 1806

01:40:14,407 --> 01:40:16,288

When you go to Morocco,

you are in a movie.

: 1807

01:40:16,858 --> 01:40:17,478

You really are.

: 1808

01:40:18,678 --> 01:40:23,378

And so you go to Joy's place, you're

in this society, you're in this

: 1809

01:40:23,407 --> 01:40:24,798

community, you're in this way of life.

: 1810

01:40:24,848 --> 01:40:26,418

I think that's what people want.

: 1811

01:40:26,618 --> 01:40:30,868

I think people want as many

experiences as they can have.

: 1812

01:40:31,348 --> 01:40:36,688

And it just naturally seems to be what

people spend their time and money on.

: 1813

01:40:36,868 --> 01:40:38,188

And it's pretty crazy.

: 1814

01:40:38,188 --> 01:40:42,987

This is a really strange concept,

but if you are a coal miner and all

: 1815

01:40:42,987 --> 01:40:46,668

you do your whole life is mine coal

and don't have any other experiences,

: 1816

01:40:47,688 --> 01:40:51,218

time is going to be very compressed.

: 1817

01:40:51,748 --> 01:40:55,678

But the more experiences you have,

it's like the more time you create

: 1818

01:40:55,907 --> 01:40:57,928

because you're experiencing new things.

: 1819

01:40:58,498 --> 01:40:59,598

They've done studies on this.

: 1820

01:40:59,598 --> 01:41:04,598

It really sounds wild, but you've

lived half of your life by the

: 1821

01:41:04,608 --> 01:41:10,327

time you're 20 because the way we

perceive time, because you generally

: 1822

01:41:11,018 --> 01:41:13,258

are having less new experiences.

: 1823

01:41:13,568 --> 01:41:14,428

You're in a routine.

: 1824

01:41:14,868 --> 01:41:19,318

And so if you want to live a longer

life, you go have more experiences.

: 1825

01:41:19,388 --> 01:41:22,278

Unless you just really love what you have.

: 1826

01:41:22,318 --> 01:41:23,737

I think that's what people want.

: 1827

01:41:25,858 --> 01:41:29,248

Obviously if people are stuck in survival

mode, like the majority of people on

: 1828

01:41:29,248 --> 01:41:31,968

earth are still in a survival situation.

: 1829

01:41:32,288 --> 01:41:36,778

I have to do this job so that I can eat,

so I can have a shelter over my head.

: 1830

01:41:36,778 --> 01:41:40,138

So really the stuff we're talking

about is what do you do when

: 1831

01:41:40,138 --> 01:41:41,538

that's not the case anymore?

: 1832

01:41:41,688 --> 01:41:43,388

What happens when you're

not in a survival mode?

: 1833

01:41:43,868 --> 01:41:44,818

How do you spend your time?

: 1834

01:41:44,818 --> 01:41:45,538

Where do you go?

: 1835

01:41:45,538 --> 01:41:48,468

And we know that people

spend it on travel.

: 1836

01:41:48,928 --> 01:41:50,268

They spend a lot of it on travel.

: 1837

01:41:50,268 --> 01:41:54,758

And we see it too, a lot

of people buy stuff, right?

: 1838

01:41:54,808 --> 01:41:59,348

But once they reach a certain level of

abundance, they don't buy as much stuff.

: 1839

01:42:00,237 --> 01:42:01,018

That's what happened with me.

: 1840

01:42:01,018 --> 01:42:04,618

I sold my company, bought a bunch of

really stupid things I didn't need.

: 1841

01:42:05,368 --> 01:42:06,468

It didn't make me happy.

: 1842

01:42:06,558 --> 01:42:10,768

So then I got rid of them and just went

right back to the adventure part of it.

: 1843

01:42:11,298 --> 01:42:14,668

So I think the other thing

that's happening is the tourism

: 1844

01:42:14,678 --> 01:42:15,898

market is getting younger.

: 1845

01:42:16,228 --> 01:42:21,088

So a majority of tourism was over

60 years old for most of our era

: 1846

01:42:21,157 --> 01:42:24,228

because they're the ones that

have disposable time and income.

: 1847

01:42:25,157 --> 01:42:29,407

But I just think that there's

just more money going around.

: 1848

01:42:29,418 --> 01:42:33,378

The upper middle class has doubled

or tripled in the last 20 years

: 1849

01:42:33,657 --> 01:42:37,878

and people are getting a lot more

mobility, and they're not spending

: 1850

01:42:37,888 --> 01:42:39,368

as much money on where they live.

: 1851

01:42:39,768 --> 01:42:42,348

They're spending their money on going

places and they have the flexibility

: 1852

01:42:42,348 --> 01:42:46,327

to do that, which is not something that

has really been around for a long time.

: 1853

01:42:48,818 --> 01:42:51,088

Brian Searl: Yeah, I think my answer

to that question, and I don't know if I

: 1854

01:42:51,098 --> 01:42:56,368

have the answer like you do, Zach, but

I think my answer is to gently nudge

: 1855

01:42:56,368 --> 01:43:00,918

people toward creating their own whatever

unique experience is in their head, right?

: 1856

01:43:01,318 --> 01:43:02,968

For Travis, that's what he's building.

: 1857

01:43:02,968 --> 01:43:04,458

For Ben Wolff, that's something different.

: 1858

01:43:04,458 --> 01:43:07,178

For the clients that you have,

Zach, that's something different.

: 1859

01:43:07,838 --> 01:43:14,558

I think there's been perhaps a majority,

and I'm not saying that's 60% or

: 1860

01:43:14,558 --> 01:43:18,358

whatever, right, but a majority of

people who are developing in outdoor

: 1861

01:43:18,358 --> 01:43:21,678

hospitality that have just said,

"Look, here's something that works.

: 1862

01:43:21,678 --> 01:43:22,508

Let me do that also."

: 1863

01:43:23,498 --> 01:43:24,848

Instead of, "Look, here's

something that works.

: 1864

01:43:24,858 --> 01:43:28,318

Let me tweak that to make it work

for me or my audience or my niche

: 1865

01:43:28,318 --> 01:43:29,237

or what I want to accomplish."

: 1866

01:43:29,278 --> 01:43:34,568

Let me add an RV park or glamping to

a dairy farm instead of just building

: 1867

01:43:34,568 --> 01:43:35,818

an RV park, if that makes sense.

: 1868

01:43:37,138 --> 01:43:40,418

So I think that's where we need

to maybe encourage people to go.

: 1869

01:43:40,418 --> 01:43:43,728

And I think there's significantly,

there are people that are going

: 1870

01:43:43,728 --> 01:43:47,058

there, like Travis and Ben and some

of your clients, Zach, and other

: 1871

01:43:47,058 --> 01:43:48,068

people that we've had on this show.

: 1872

01:43:48,378 --> 01:43:52,148

I think those voices would be

well served for our industry to

: 1873

01:43:52,148 --> 01:43:56,298

be more visible at some of the

industry conferences that we have.

: 1874

01:43:58,737 --> 01:44:00,698

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I always

bring it back to storytelling.

: 1875

01:44:00,698 --> 01:44:03,448

How do you make your

property not a commodity?

: 1876

01:44:04,148 --> 01:44:06,808

Like Joy's property is

not a commodity at all.

: 1877

01:44:07,348 --> 01:44:10,118

You're going to milk cows, you're going

to do things that you can't just walk

: 1878

01:44:10,118 --> 01:44:11,778

into someone's dairy and milk their cow.

: 1879

01:44:12,068 --> 01:44:13,918

You can't do that anywhere in society.

: 1880

01:44:13,938 --> 01:44:15,428

It's like you would get shot.

: 1881

01:44:15,428 --> 01:44:17,378

You might get in trouble, but you could.

: 1882

01:44:19,338 --> 01:44:21,938

Brian Searl: You're just going to walk in

here and just milk my cow without even...

: 1883

01:44:22,348 --> 01:44:22,848

what?

: 1884

01:44:24,228 --> 01:44:25,418

Travis Chambers: The disrespect!

: 1885

01:44:25,428 --> 01:44:31,288

So that's the problem is too many people

say, "I'm going to do a glamping project."

: 1886

01:44:32,118 --> 01:44:32,487

What is...

: 1887

01:44:32,538 --> 01:44:35,098

guys, I almost feel like you

could finish my sentence.

: 1888

01:44:35,118 --> 01:44:36,188

What is the first thing they say?

: 1889

01:44:36,218 --> 01:44:37,538

"Oh, I'm going to do domes."

: 1890

01:44:38,008 --> 01:44:39,708

It's always the same thing.

: 1891

01:44:40,198 --> 01:44:42,208

I always come to the same conclusion.

: 1892

01:44:43,157 --> 01:44:47,718

And I would recommend to people,

go figure out what your story is.

: 1893

01:44:47,978 --> 01:44:52,928

Go figure out what your unique

world is that you want people to

: 1894

01:44:52,928 --> 01:44:56,737

enter because domes is not enough.

: 1895

01:44:58,058 --> 01:45:01,558

It's enough if you're right next to

a national park, then it is enough.

: 1896

01:45:01,598 --> 01:45:06,058

But do you really want to just add

another commodity to the world?

: 1897

01:45:06,168 --> 01:45:07,278

I love Rick Rubin.

: 1898

01:45:07,478 --> 01:45:09,098

He's my favorite music producer.

: 1899

01:45:09,778 --> 01:45:12,398

He always says there's a difference

between art and commerce.

: 1900

01:45:12,487 --> 01:45:15,058

Commerce is what you make

what you think people want.

: 1901

01:45:15,928 --> 01:45:17,868

Art is you make what you love.

: 1902

01:45:18,298 --> 01:45:20,398

And that's what I've tried

to do with my projects.

: 1903

01:45:20,398 --> 01:45:22,657

What do I love deeply, love?

: 1904

01:45:22,878 --> 01:45:25,418

And it's like if you're going to build a

project like this and you don't know what

: 1905

01:45:25,418 --> 01:45:28,038

you love, then you got to go find out.

: 1906

01:45:28,648 --> 01:45:29,308

You got to go find out.

: 1907

01:45:29,308 --> 01:45:32,318

Brian Searl: What's your unique story

that you want to tell in the world?

: 1908

01:45:34,657 --> 01:45:35,668

All right, last few minutes.

: 1909

01:45:35,698 --> 01:45:38,348

Travis, do you have any

questions for Joy or Zachary?

: 1910

01:45:38,348 --> 01:45:41,568

We kind of let the guests take over,

so do you have a question you want

: 1911

01:45:41,568 --> 01:45:43,358

to ask either one of those two?

: 1912

01:45:43,958 --> 01:45:48,378

Travis Chambers: Yeah, Joy, my

question for you is I'd love

: 1913

01:45:48,378 --> 01:45:50,278

to know more about how you...

: 1914

01:45:51,288 --> 01:45:54,068

how do you do this whole guest experience?

: 1915

01:45:54,608 --> 01:45:56,478

Is it like a choose your

own adventure thing?

: 1916

01:45:56,918 --> 01:45:58,028

Is there a schedule?

: 1917

01:45:59,868 --> 01:46:02,678

Joy de Vos: It's a choose

your own adventure thing and

: 1918

01:46:02,688 --> 01:46:04,538

we schedule based on demand.

: 1919

01:46:05,028 --> 01:46:09,418

We could have tour times, but what

we've decided to do is work with

: 1920

01:46:09,418 --> 01:46:13,518

when they're actually being demanded

so that we can be prepared with the

: 1921

01:46:13,518 --> 01:46:16,518

staff to take people through the tour.

: 1922

01:46:16,518 --> 01:46:17,698

We have to do biosecurity.

: 1923

01:46:21,237 --> 01:46:26,157

We have to be prepared that people carry

disease, animals have disease, and we

: 1924

01:46:26,157 --> 01:46:28,678

have to make sure that both work together.

: 1925

01:46:29,018 --> 01:46:31,718

So we have to make sure

people's hands are sanitized.

: 1926

01:46:31,728 --> 01:46:34,298

If you're doing the milking dairy

tour, we'll be providing you with

: 1927

01:46:34,318 --> 01:46:37,827

the gumboots and the overalls so

that you don't have to worry about

: 1928

01:46:37,827 --> 01:46:39,928

staining your lovely camping outfit.

: 1929

01:46:40,577 --> 01:46:44,758

But mainly people, we want them to come

and camp and just enjoy the animals

: 1930

01:46:44,758 --> 01:46:50,358

that are available all the time and kick

back and relax and forget about real

: 1931

01:46:50,358 --> 01:46:52,378

life because real life is really hard.

: 1932

01:46:53,218 --> 01:46:57,458

And then when you want to do a dairy tour,

we'll try to do them in the morning and

: 1933

01:46:57,468 --> 01:46:59,688

answer the questions as best as we can.

: 1934

01:47:00,018 --> 01:47:05,088

And we would target our dairy tours based

on who our client is at that moment.

: 1935

01:47:05,298 --> 01:47:07,538

If they're young children,

we keep it simple.

: 1936

01:47:07,728 --> 01:47:10,288

If they're older and they're college

students and they're trying to

: 1937

01:47:10,288 --> 01:47:12,827

learn something about agriculture,

then we'll be more in depth.

: 1938

01:47:13,168 --> 01:47:16,788

If it's the general person, just an

understanding of how we work with our

: 1939

01:47:16,788 --> 01:47:22,458

environment to be good stewards of the

land and how we look after our animals.

: 1940

01:47:22,468 --> 01:47:23,698

We love our girls.

: 1941

01:47:23,728 --> 01:47:26,378

They all sleep on waterbeds

in case anybody's wondering.

: 1942

01:47:27,028 --> 01:47:28,348

And they're very happy.

: 1943

01:47:30,248 --> 01:47:34,208

And we'll develop as we're going

along because obviously I've only

: 1944

01:47:34,208 --> 01:47:39,138

been doing this for the last 12 months

or 14 months with opening up the

: 1945

01:47:39,138 --> 01:47:41,028

store and working towards this plan.

: 1946

01:47:41,468 --> 01:47:44,358

And still I don't even know

what to put in my brochures.

: 1947

01:47:44,358 --> 01:47:48,588

I have a brochure, but maybe my ideas

will be different in six months from now.

: 1948

01:47:49,108 --> 01:47:52,878

And our campground can host tents and RVs.

: 1949

01:47:53,148 --> 01:47:55,208

And right now we only

have two full hookups.

: 1950

01:47:55,418 --> 01:47:59,388

The rest are dry until we

eventually get to our end goal.

: 1951

01:48:01,508 --> 01:48:02,128

Travis Chambers: That's really cool.

: 1952

01:48:02,148 --> 01:48:05,018

My one of my favorite experiences,

my grandpa had a dairy farm.

: 1953

01:48:05,028 --> 01:48:07,338

My dad grew up on a dairy farm

and I used to go there as a kid,

: 1954

01:48:07,888 --> 01:48:10,048

climb around the barn, find old...

: 1955

01:48:10,657 --> 01:48:15,903

I'd find his old mail and checks

to the IRS and stuff from the 50s.

: 1956

01:48:15,903 --> 01:48:17,438

It was so much fun.

: 1957

01:48:17,448 --> 01:48:18,168

Like it was this...

: 1958

01:48:18,918 --> 01:48:21,737

and it's like how many people

really get that experience?

: 1959

01:48:21,737 --> 01:48:25,878

Zachary, what's your favorite

thing that you've designed so far?

: 1960

01:48:27,938 --> 01:48:32,327

Zach Stoltenberg: I get this question

a lot and I think the best answer

: 1961

01:48:32,327 --> 01:48:35,358

I can say is my favorite thing is

whatever I'm working on right now.

: 1962

01:48:36,428 --> 01:48:41,208

Which the current project,

it's also in Utah.

: 1963

01:48:43,237 --> 01:48:48,398

I can share a little bit about it, but

I'll say this is the first time instead

: 1964

01:48:48,398 --> 01:48:53,538

of building or erecting a unit, we

are excavating the units out of rock.

: 1965

01:48:53,998 --> 01:48:56,428

So that's been very

unique, very different.

: 1966

01:48:57,048 --> 01:48:58,298

Some challenges with it.

: 1967

01:48:58,748 --> 01:49:03,418

Everybody on my team has just poured

themselves into it and I think when

: 1968

01:49:03,418 --> 01:49:07,008

it finally comes to fruition, it's

going to be absolutely incredible.

: 1969

01:49:07,558 --> 01:49:11,708

But I think yeah, my best answer would

be whatever I'm working on right now.

: 1970

01:49:11,878 --> 01:49:16,638

Because I think when you put a piece of

yourself into what you're designing, when

: 1971

01:49:16,638 --> 01:49:19,728

you get passionate about it, when you

get turned on, you get your team excited

: 1972

01:49:19,728 --> 01:49:25,418

about it, when your client is 100% into

it, that's when we get our best result.

: 1973

01:49:26,077 --> 01:49:28,688

That's when we create something

that's really incredible.

: 1974

01:49:28,878 --> 01:49:31,737

And those are the properties that

it might be a year or two later that

: 1975

01:49:31,768 --> 01:49:34,728

they're finally open and hosting

guests and all those things that we

: 1976

01:49:34,728 --> 01:49:39,668

talked about, all those ideas, those

conversations, even some of the crazy

: 1977

01:49:39,678 --> 01:49:41,968

hairball stuff that we came up with

that's like, I don't know if it'll

: 1978

01:49:41,968 --> 01:49:43,478

work or not, but we'll give it a shot.

: 1979

01:49:43,987 --> 01:49:48,498

And then that's the thing that got

the million views on Instagram.

: 1980

01:49:48,798 --> 01:49:51,958

And so that's the way we work.

: 1981

01:49:52,157 --> 01:49:55,388

But yeah, for me it's always

whatever we're doing right now.

: 1982

01:49:55,808 --> 01:49:56,998

That's what I'm passionate about.

: 1983

01:49:57,398 --> 01:49:58,708

Travis Chambers: Was

it hard to get permits?

: 1984

01:49:58,948 --> 01:50:01,348

Was it hard to engineer

building into rock?

: 1985

01:50:03,218 --> 01:50:04,768

Zach Stoltenberg: It's been interesting.

: 1986

01:50:05,198 --> 01:50:06,888

The permit side not so much.

: 1987

01:50:06,888 --> 01:50:09,638

The county and the state have

been reasonable to work with.

: 1988

01:50:10,118 --> 01:50:14,298

But some of the testing, the

geotech, the borings, working

: 1989

01:50:14,298 --> 01:50:19,868

with a really knowledgeable crew

that's used to doing drilling and

: 1990

01:50:19,868 --> 01:50:21,737

blasting and some of those things.

: 1991

01:50:21,748 --> 01:50:24,558

We had big questions and they were

like, "Yeah, we do this all the time."

: 1992

01:50:25,148 --> 01:50:29,718

And so I would say the most difficult

thing was us, our education and learning

: 1993

01:50:29,968 --> 01:50:33,698

what is possible and then listening

to those trades and those contractors

: 1994

01:50:33,698 --> 01:50:35,827

and saying, "Yeah, we can do that."

: 1995

01:50:35,827 --> 01:50:38,987

And we sent him a few crazy things

and he's like, "I've never done that

: 1996

01:50:38,987 --> 01:50:40,358

before, but I think I can do it."

: 1997

01:50:41,018 --> 01:50:43,228

And there's been some things

that he pushed back a little bit.

: 1998

01:50:43,978 --> 01:50:47,168

"If you want a column there, leave

it at least six or eight feet wide.

: 1999

01:50:47,178 --> 01:50:50,028

Don't give me a two foot column,

that's going to crack and break on me."

: 2000

01:50:50,068 --> 01:50:54,128

So it's been very interesting, very

educational, but it's been a ton of fun.

: 2001

01:50:54,308 --> 01:50:54,938

And I've got it...

: 2002

01:50:55,708 --> 01:51:00,438

we're working on it with a client who is

one of the most passionate people that

: 2003

01:51:00,438 --> 01:51:01,958

I think I've ever worked for before.

: 2004

01:51:03,388 --> 01:51:05,498

Brian Searl: We need to get

you your own TV show, Zach.

: 2005

01:51:05,498 --> 01:51:07,907

Do you remember that TV show

with the people who went around

: 2006

01:51:07,907 --> 01:51:09,358

and built the crazy fish tanks?

: 2007

01:51:09,907 --> 01:51:10,708

I can't remember what it's called.

: 2008

01:51:11,368 --> 01:51:12,508

Zach Stoltenberg: I

don't need a show, but...

: 2009

01:51:12,548 --> 01:51:13,148

Brian Searl: Tanked, yeah.

: 2010

01:51:13,508 --> 01:51:14,628

Zach Stoltenberg: I would love to do...

: 2011

01:51:14,948 --> 01:51:20,748

maybe Netflix needs to do a pilot

series on building experiential stays

: 2012

01:51:20,868 --> 01:51:24,698

and go out and follow some of these

crews with folks like what Travis is

: 2013

01:51:24,698 --> 01:51:28,388

doing out there to see that sort of

behind the scenes of what's going on.

: 2014

01:51:28,728 --> 01:51:31,928

I think there's three or four I

think they could go shoot right now.

: 2015

01:51:31,938 --> 01:51:31,958

Brian Searl: It

: 2016

01:51:34,458 --> 01:51:35,487

would be interesting for sure.

: 2017

01:51:35,548 --> 01:51:36,758

We're a couple minutes over.

: 2018

01:51:36,778 --> 01:51:40,088

Joy, do you have a last question

for Zach or Travis before we go?

: 2019

01:51:41,588 --> 01:51:43,688

Joy de Vos: I can't think

of anything at this moment.

: 2020

01:51:43,698 --> 01:51:44,168

Sorry.

: 2021

01:51:44,678 --> 01:51:45,818

Brian Searl: No, that's perfectly fine.

: 2022

01:51:45,907 --> 01:51:46,848

All right, final thoughts.

: 2023

01:51:46,878 --> 01:51:47,938

Joy, any final thoughts?

: 2024

01:51:47,938 --> 01:51:49,878

And then where can they find

out more about Foxtrot Dairy?

: 2025

01:51:51,098 --> 01:51:53,248

Joy de Vos: We're foxtrotdairy.ca

: 2026

01:51:53,407 --> 01:51:54,598

and we have .com,

: 2027

01:51:54,598 --> 01:51:55,188

but .com

: 2028

01:51:55,188 --> 01:51:55,848

is sleeping.

: 2029

01:51:56,348 --> 01:51:59,708

I made sure to buy both panhandles

to make sure that they're mine.

: 2030

01:52:00,228 --> 01:52:03,128

Just that we provide our

own beef when we're...

: 2031

01:52:03,588 --> 01:52:04,568

when you're at our farm.

: 2032

01:52:04,958 --> 01:52:09,388

And we have our own lamb and pork

and we've brought in some select

: 2033

01:52:09,568 --> 01:52:13,588

agricultural products from different

vendors and just trying to provide

: 2034

01:52:13,588 --> 01:52:15,028

what you would need when you come here.

: 2035

01:52:15,758 --> 01:52:18,538

Come and visit us and pet a goat.

: 2036

01:52:19,338 --> 01:52:22,118

Say hi to the chickens, say

hi to the cows, say hi to me.

: 2037

01:52:22,228 --> 01:52:23,048

I'll tell you a lot.

: 2038

01:52:24,538 --> 01:52:25,448

Brian Searl: Thank you,

Joy, for being here.

: 2039

01:52:25,448 --> 01:52:25,907

I appreciate it.

: 2040

01:52:25,907 --> 01:52:27,228

I'm looking forward to

seeing your success.

: 2041

01:52:27,858 --> 01:52:30,688

Zach, any final thoughts or where

can they learn more about LJA?

: 2042

01:52:32,368 --> 01:52:35,838

Zach Stoltenberg: You can reach

out to me on LinkedIn or Instagram.

: 2043

01:52:35,888 --> 01:52:39,468

Like I always said, never

charged anybody for a phone call.

: 2044

01:52:39,508 --> 01:52:40,588

We'd love to talk to people.

: 2045

01:52:40,588 --> 01:52:42,128

Maybe we can help you, maybe we can't.

: 2046

01:52:42,688 --> 01:52:47,018

But my email is just zstoltenberg@lja.com.

: 2047

01:52:47,538 --> 01:52:51,668

And again, most of our advertising,

I like to say, is not us.

: 2048

01:52:51,748 --> 01:52:54,708

It's through the clients, through

the properties we've worked with.

: 2049

01:52:54,708 --> 01:52:56,288

I think they're our best testament.

: 2050

01:52:56,298 --> 01:52:59,588

We like kind of being the folks

in the background that help people

: 2051

01:52:59,588 --> 01:53:00,778

that are doing wonderful things.

: 2052

01:53:01,278 --> 01:53:03,938

And Joy, I want to design

mini barns for you.

: 2053

01:53:04,498 --> 01:53:07,748

I want little experiential stay units.

: 2054

01:53:07,748 --> 01:53:10,308

I want them to be able to sit

in bed and look up and see the

: 2055

01:53:10,308 --> 01:53:11,868

cows at the foot of the bed.

: 2056

01:53:12,388 --> 01:53:16,018

I want the kids to be able to sleep

up in the hayloft for the evening.

: 2057

01:53:16,077 --> 01:53:17,758

I think we could do some really fun stuff.

: 2058

01:53:19,398 --> 01:53:24,157

And I grew up on a cattle ranch,

so not that far detracted from it.

: 2059

01:53:24,808 --> 01:53:26,178

I was a 4-H kid too.

: 2060

01:53:27,358 --> 01:53:29,298

Joy de Vos: Yeah, 4-H is

such a valuable program.

: 2061

01:53:29,368 --> 01:53:31,468

If all of our children were

in it, we would have a bit

: 2062

01:53:31,468 --> 01:53:32,858

of a different society today.

: 2063

01:53:33,928 --> 01:53:34,907

Please reach out to me.

: 2064

01:53:36,028 --> 01:53:36,428

Zach Stoltenberg: I will.

: 2065

01:53:37,248 --> 01:53:39,237

Brian Searl: Last but not least,

Travis, any final thoughts and

: 2066

01:53:39,237 --> 01:53:40,998

where can they find out more about

the projects you have going on?

: 2067

01:53:42,138 --> 01:53:45,268

Travis Chambers: Yeah, I'm on

Instagram, travis_chambers.

: 2068

01:53:45,268 --> 01:53:49,388

And then you can check out Outpost

X on Instagram or Outpost X

: 2069

01:53:49,388 --> 01:53:50,748

Jungle for the island project.

: 2070

01:53:51,208 --> 01:53:53,838

Brian Searl: All right, thank

you guys for being here.

: 2071

01:53:53,838 --> 01:53:54,388

I appreciate it.

: 2072

01:53:54,728 --> 01:53:56,508

Join us for another episode

of MC Fireside Chats.

: 2073

01:53:56,508 --> 01:53:59,018

If you're not sick and tired of

hearing from me, I will have another

: 2074

01:53:59,018 --> 01:54:01,888

live podcast in about 45 minutes

or so with Scott Bahr, who we're

: 2075

01:54:01,888 --> 01:54:04,498

going to talk about data research,

AI, tech, all that kind of stuff.

: 2076

01:54:05,068 --> 01:54:05,648

So join us there.

: 2077

01:54:05,648 --> 01:54:08,198

If not, we'll see you next week for

another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

: 2078

01:54:08,398 --> 01:54:08,918

Thanks guys.

: 2079

01:54:09,008 --> 01:54:09,288

Take care.

: 2080

01:54:09,338 --> 01:54:09,898

Travis Chambers: Thanks guys.

: 2081

01:54:10,548 --> 01:54:11,118

Zach Stoltenberg: Thanks everybody.

: 2082

01:54:12,348 --> 01:54:12,688

Joy de Vos: Thank you.

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