The October 7th, 2026, episode of MC Fireside Chats opened with host Brian Searl reflecting on the rapid passage of the year as the fall season officially set in. Broadcasting with his dog Riley on his lap, Searl welcomed a diverse panel of outdoor hospitality leaders to discuss the latest trends in camping, glamping, recreational vehicle manufacturing, and consumer behavior. The comprehensive panel included Scott Bahr of Cairn Consulting Group, Simon Neal of Camp Map, Michael Moore of the Texas Association of Campground Owners, Phil Ingrassia from the RV Dealers Association, Cathy Reinard of Campground Brokers of America, and Miguel Huerta representing the Mexican Glamping Association.

The conversation kicked off with Scott Bahr sharing insights from his busy fall schedule, noting that his team is already deep into preparations for the 2027 market surveys for KOA, OHI, and RVIA. Bahr recently attended the Glamping Show, where he observed a notable shift in attendee sophistication. Instead of merely buying land and figuring out the business later, prospective operators are now utilizing advanced tools and artificial intelligence to conduct thorough due diligence before making real estate purchases. He also noted positive feedback from manufacturers, who reported strong project pipelines and unit sales compared to the previous year.

Miguel Huerta expanded on the Glamping Show experience, agreeing that the industry is maturing as evidenced by a higher ratio of qualified leads over casual window shoppers. However, Huerta pointed out a surprising demographic shift, noting that Latino attendance dropped to less than five percent this year, potentially due to the rise of localized glamping shows in Mexico and Colombia. He also observed structural manufacturers moving toward revenue-sharing partnerships rather than traditional outright sales, and noted a growing interest from Americans and Canadians looking to retire and build owner-operated glamping properties in Mexico.

Shifting the focus to recreational vehicles, Phil Ingrassia provided an update from the recent RV manufacturers' Open House in Elkhart, Indiana. He reported a distinct pivot in product design, with manufacturers heavily targeting non-traditional buyers. Dealerships are increasingly stocking smaller, lighter, and more rugged units designed for off-grid and rustic camping. Ingrassia explained that this shift is a strategic move to attract younger demographics who prioritize adventure and flexibility over the massive, slide-out-heavy motorhomes favored by previous generations.

This evolution in RV design perfectly aligns with changing traveler preferences, a topic Scott Bahr expanded upon using his latest market research. Bahr explained that modern campers, particularly those under fifty, seek multi-use travel experiences that blend traditional private campground stays with dispersed camping, music festivals, and farm stops via platforms like Harvest Hosts. He stressed that the industry must analyze these trends based on life stages—such as young families versus digital nomads—rather than relying on broad, outdated generational labels.

Providing an operator's perspective on these experiential trends, Cathy Reinard shared how her own seasonal park adapts to changing consumer demands. Reinard emphasized that younger campers are highly experiential, prompting her to introduce unique offerings like on-site hot air balloons and a planned bird-watching weekend spearheaded by industry expert Greg Emmert. She strongly advised park owners to interact directly with their guests to discover what they truly want, asserting that operators must stop trying to be everything to everyone and instead hyper-focus on serving their specific core demographic.

Michael Moore echoed Reinard's advice regarding specialization, noting that the middle-tier of the campground market must find unique ways to stand out. Representing TACO and AGS Guest Guides, Moore explained that with the rapid diversification of the outdoor hospitality sector, properties must identify their specific strengths and lean into them entirely. When Searl asked Moore what his ideal future campground would look like, Moore described a hybrid model featuring essential modern amenities—like level concrete pads and swimming pools—paired with a heavily emphasized, concierge-level focus on human interaction and personalized customer service.

The theme of specialization naturally transitioned into a discussion about park mapping, guided by Simon Neal and Michael Moore. Moore noted that traditional United States RV park maps are typically straightforward and highly functional, prioritizing basic navigation. In contrast, Neal explained that European campground maps, along with domestic glamping resort maps, tend to feature high-level, inspirational designs that highlight natural topography and prominently feature park amenities. Neal added that the European market remains intensely focused on the family holiday experience, balancing natural aesthetics with safe, enclosed environments for children.

Neal also shared fascinating climate-driven data from the Nordic camping market, revealing that Sweden experienced a massive three percent increase in overnight stays this past summer. Digging into the statistics, Neal explained that this surge was largely driven by Dutch and German tourists who abandoned their traditional southern European beach holidays to escape severe heatwaves, driving north to the cooler Swedish climate instead. He pointed out that since Swedish camping is roughly thirty percent of the cost of destinations like Italy or France, operators must pay close attention to changing weather patterns and capitalize on these climate-driven travel shifts through reactive marketing.

Bringing the conversation back to the Latin American market, Miguel Huerta provided context on why glamping is heavily outpacing traditional camping in his region. Huerta explained that despite Mexico's incredible biodiversity, a lack of infrastructure in national parks and lingering safety concerns have historically suppressed the traditional RV and tent camping markets. Consequently, the industry essentially skipped the traditional camping phase and boomed straight into luxury glamping. He urged United States border parks to recognize the massive purchasing power of affluent Mexican travelers, suggesting they utilize targeted WhatsApp marketing and Spanish-language landing pages to attract this highly lucrative demographic.

The broadcast then highlighted the mutual benefits of collaboration between RV dealerships and private campgrounds. Phil Ingrassia suggested that state associations should actively foster these relationships by placing campground guides in local dealerships and hosting new product showcases directly on park grounds. Cathy Reinard shared a highly successful real-world execution of this concept, revealing that she partnered with a local three-location dealership to offer a free one-night stay coupon with every RV purchase. This simple partnership directly resulted in several new long-term seasonal renters who fell in love with her property after having their new rigs delivered directly to the park.

As the episode drew to a close, the panelists offered their final thoughts on the future of the industry. Cathy Reinard passionately urged all park owners to join their regional, state, and national associations, emphasizing that collective advocacy is essential for the survival and growth of the sector. Brian Searl thanked the guests for their diverse insights and wrapped up the October Fireside Chat by teasing his upcoming Outwired broadcast with Scott Bahr, where the duo planned to analyze fall travel occupancy numbers and the impact of Treasury bonds on campground valuations.

Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground.

Excited to be here with you for another first-week episode.

It's already October, can you guys believe that?

Like, we always say that when the year starts every year,

and I'm like 40-something now.

I don't know how old I am.

I don't- I stopped keeping track at like 20.

But every year we say, like in January, "Oh, the year's gonna go by fast.

The year's gonna go by fast.

It's a new year."

And then like it just, I don't know, it seems to go faster every year, but

maybe that's just 'cause I'm older and I don't remember half the things

that happened in the year anymore.

Is that why…

Scott, you're older than I am, right?

Is that what happens?

Oh.

Do I have like that to look forward to?

I'm, I'm…

Yes.

Yes, you do.

I was-

You remember that that's what actually happens, or?

Yeah.

I'd like to.

Okay.

Uh.

Yeah.

It goes by really fast.

It really does.

Yeah, and you just wake up and you're like, "Ah,

I thought 2025 was yesterday.

That's all I remember."

So-

A couple weeks ago I had brown hair.

It's like…

A couple weeks ago I had hair at all, so, you know.

Uh, all right, we're excited to be here for another episode.

We got a couple recurring guests.

Uh, we'll go around the room and let everybody introduce themselves,

uh, starting with my dog, Riley, right here, who is a lap dog, so.

Uh, all right.

Go ahead guys, who wants to start?

Scott?

All right.

Scott Bahr, president of Cairn Consulting Group, where we do market research

and analysis across all different sectors of outdoor hospitality and

dabble in some other sectors as well outside this, but we don't wanna talk

about that, so- … we'll move on.

Thanks for being here, Scott.

Simon?

Yeah.

Simon Neal, founder and CEO of CampMap.

We help outdoor hospitality businesses improve their marketing

and guest experience with premium digital and printable maps.

Thanks for being here, Simon.

Michael.

Yeah.

Uh, Michael Moore, assistant executive director for Texas Association of

Campground Owners, uh, and also general manager of AGS Guest Guides, so

providing the prints and, uh, digital marketing for campgrounds all over.

Thanks for being here again, sir.

Mr.

Phil.

Hi, I'm Phil Ingrassia, president of RVDA.

We represent US travel trailer and motor home dealers.

Last but not least, Cathy

Um, my name is Cathy Reinard.

I am the national director for the Campground Brokers of America brokerage.

I am the Own a KOA broker, um, and I am a campground owner, and

so I'm wearing a lot of hats.

And so I am thrilled that it's October, because I have a seasonal park, and this

is our last weekend, but I love the space.

I've been in it for almost 30 years.

Next year will be 30, and, um, just continuing to learn new things and,

uh, learn more about today's camper.

Cathy, before we get started, I just had a quick question for you.

I forgot, you told us what the OHI board of directors results were.

What were they again?

Ha, ha, ha.

Nice try.

Real good try.

No, they're gonna wait, they're gonna wait

for the press release, Brian.

You know that.

All right.

All right.

Okay.

Uh, so we normally turn this to our recurring guests, uh, Scott,

Simon, Phil, and, uh, Michael.

Just, uh, is there anything that's come across your desk in the last

month since we've all been together on the show that just, uh, you

think we should be talking about?

I mean, from, from my perspective, I think the, you know,

right now we're, we're all starting to, uh, take the look ahead to 2027.

Um, you know, we're planning our, our annual, um, survey with, for, for KOA.

Um, do- you know, we're, we're in the midst of doing, um,

some, some good stuff with OHI.

We're in the midst of our quar- our, our look ahead to the fall and holiday

season with, um, our RVIA and Go RVing.

So it's a, it's a super busy time and it's su- it's really exciting and I'm just…

I think Brian earlier you asked about numbers.

I haven't seen any, um, I, I really haven't, but we're g- we're gonna

have a bunch and, and wait for the fire hose of information that's coming

out that's, you know, the end of this year and early next year 'cause,

um, it's gonna be pretty exciting.

We have a couple new initiatives.

Um, so that's what's coming across my desk a lot.

A lot has.

Plus I was at the Glamping Show last week, so.

Yeah, tell us about the Glamping Show.

Like, I, I'm, and I'm running numbers by the way for Outwired

later, so I, if they work.

Oh, okay.

Like I'm trying to pull them from the database, but

obviously I'm not up there watching it, so hopefully it's working.

So you don't wanna share 'em with, with Simon and

Phil and Michael and Cathy?

I don't know what they are, man.

Like, I, I tried to get 'em really quickly and it was like trying to

scan 2 million tables of the index and, like, it, it wasn't working, man.

So sorry Simon and Phil.

But, um, at the end of the show we're gonna pass around the

hat so Brian can get a new computer.

Um, but, um, overall, no, the Glamping Show, it was, it was interesting,

you know, having been there, I think this is my fifth year being there.

Um, it's, um…

Oh, there's Miguel.

Speaking of the Glamping Show, there he is.

Um- Uh, th- saw Miguel last week as, as well briefly, uh,

way too briefly as always.

But, um, yeah, for, from, you know, my perspective and the, the, the traffic

at each year we see a, a bit of a change in, in the, the questions and

the queries we get from, from people.

Um, so this year was a, uh, it was interesting in that there were a

number of people who seemed to be a little bit, um, further along in their,

their information gathering process.

Many who took it, it as far as they could.

They're using some tools or using some AI, but then felt like they needed to, um, you

know, go find some additional help once they got to that point, which was great.

The other thing that we heard from were more people this year I felt like, um,

hadn't even purchased property yet, which I was really happy about because

they ha- they weren't out there just buying a property and thinking they're

gonna slap something down on it.

They were actually gonna do their due diligence- Mm-hmm

selecting a property, which I, to me, shows a little bit more

sophistication in the market overall.

So that was…

I thought that was fairly en- encouraging.

Um, and it, it, I talked to a couple manufacturers, um, uh, there and,

um, for example, you know, one w- was Cavco and they, they're,

they seem to be really busy.

They have some really big projects going on.

They seem, they seemed happy, you know?

Th- th- amazing how that works.

Um, and then talked to a couple others who, um, sold more units

this year than they did last year.

Good.

So it's like it was a different kind of attendee maybe this

year, um, than, than in the past.

So that's, that's kinda my, my, uh, initial takeaways.

And you and I talked about this briefly on a chat, like,

but I, I'm curious your thoughts just briefly, and then I wanna ask Miguel

while we're on the glamping show what his thoughts of, of the show was too.

Uh, but just 'cause I wasn't there this year.

Um, but just, uh, you know, we talk about the AI thing specifically, right?

And, and I think, I think this helps our industry.

I think there's some, there's some people who are a very small minority who

it hurts, but I think the people doing the research in advance with AI, asking

all their questions, getting all the low-hanging fruit outta the way, makes

them a more qualified buyer, doesn't it?

I mean, there are probably exceptions to that rule- … but generally speaking.

That's true.

And so I think the people who are at the, the high end of the expertise like

you or Greg Emmert or some of the other consultants, you know, I think Advanced

Outdoor Management was probably there.

Uh, sorry, I can't remember the, the, the name who used to run it.

Kathleen, uh, doesn't run it anymore, but Kathleen was probably there at the show.

So those, those people I think at the high end it helps, right?

Absolutely.

It, it does because you, you, what you have is, you know, someone that has

a, a, a decent, um, base of knowledge already and they, they, they…

What it helps them with is to know what they don't know.

And that, you know, to bring that to the plate, um, is tremendously

helpful in terms of being able to be more efficient, um, and get through

the process a little bit quicker.

The edu- What, what it seems to me is that they're more educated overall with

the terminology, the, you know, the, the items that are, that need to feed into

the, the planning, all those things.

Um, and then, and then it's up to the consultants to, to fill in those blanks

for them at that point, but they at least know what goes in there and what,

what needs to be fulfilled to move on.

How long do you think it's there before they get there in marketing?

Like, I really need the, the owners to be more educated in marketing before they do-

That's

never gonna happen.

If anything.

It is quite…

it's one of those things where, um, I think they will to…

It, it, it will happen, but I, I feel like there's the, the real desire to

hand that off as well to, to people who know more about it than, than they do.

Um, you know, it's, it, it's one of the things that's nice for many people now

is having the tools at their disposal so they can, you know, devote their

resources to other stuff, to managing the parks, to managing their staff,

and, and interacting with their guests, which is I'm a huge advocate of.

So, you know, the whole hospitality part of the equation, that, that seems to be,

um, where, what I hear a lot that I…

When you say marketing to people, they give you, sometimes

they give you a funny look.

Um, and I know where that comes from, so

. Brian Searl: Mostly from me.

Yep, that's where it come from.

Yep.

Uh, Mi- Miguel, uh, please introduce yourself.

It's been a couple week or a couple months since you've seen me on the show.

Welcome back.

Uh, but tell us about your experience at the Glamping Show, please.

Yeah, sure.

Well, hello everybody.

Um, hello again, Scott.

It's been a while since we, we saw each other.

Thank you so much for introducing me to the VIP parking lot.

That is a life-changing experience.

Uh, but my point is, I'm Miguel.

I'm with the Mexican Glamping Association, and this year's

Glamping Show, I think that it was-

I think that it shows how the industry is maturing as we speak.

So for example, I saw less, um, let's call them window shoppers, like

people that they were in to have a, a good time, which means that the…

Even though that we didn't get as many leads, they were more qualified.

So there's a- a trade-off between those things, you know?

Um, the, the other thing this year, sadly, I didn't get to see

as many Latino or Latino descent.

Uh, previous years, overall, I think that at least a third of

the attendees, they were Latinos.

And this year I will say that it was less than 5%.

So that to me it's a little bit, mm, interesting because, uh,

it, it's a, a dynamic that has changed with, with the show.

I don't know if it has to do with some satellite shows around glamping here

in Mexico and Colombia, but that's something that remains to be seen.

Um, but overall, I think that what I like the most about the glamping show this

year, I, I saw a shift from the structure manufacturers where they are more willing

to do a rapture type of deal rather than to do, uh, a sale on, on their structures.

Um, and they're open for international expansion as well.

So that to me, uh, it's interesting.

The other thing that I saw is more people, I mean, compared to other years, I had

more conversations with Americans and Canadians that they wanna move or retire

in places like Mexico, and they are thinking on buying like a small piece of

land, create a glamping site in there and operate, uh, the property by themselves.

There are a lot of things that they don't know.

I think that that's, uh, a little bit of wishful thinking, although as I told

them, I am really grateful as a Latin America- Latin American, that they are,

um, considering this as a, as an option.

But at the same time, it's something that they need to, to do it in

a very careful way because…

And I think that regardless of the location, uh, now that the market

is a little bit more mature, um, I'm seeing that you wanna be very pre-

precise with, with your investment.

So I think that, uh, along with Scott, as he was saying, it's people

that they have more information.

It's people that they are not gambling their money, which is good, you

know, for overall for the industry

Well, thanks, sir.

I wanna come back to you a little bit later in the show 'cause I wanna

talk to you about a little bit of cross-border marketing that came up in

a client's call that's kinda unrelated to glamping, but just curious to get,

get, get your thoughts on it later.

Um, Phil, let's go to you real quick 'cause we got, I wanna get,

we have a lot to knock out, right?

But let's talk about the open house that happened last week.

That's, you said you had some really interesting data points about it.

Sure, yeah.

Um, well, for those of you who don't know, the manufacturers every September

do a big show in Elkhart, Indiana, uh, and the surrounding area where

most of the RVs are manufactured.

And this took pla- uh, took the place of a bigger show in Louisville

that was there for many years.

And now, um, dealers come into the Elkhart area and go to the factories

where they have displays of all the units.

And so they, they can look at a lot more different units right in Elkhart.

And I think one of the things that, um, you know, we've certainly noticed

as, you know, outdoor hospitality is Trying to find new folks and bring more

people into the outdoors, you know, glamping's a perfect example of that.

I think the RV manufacturers are, um, doing a much better job of reaching

out to some of the, um, the outdoor people who may not necessarily

consider themselves traditional RVers.

Family campers, snowbirds, that's always gonna be the core of the RV market,

but there's a lot of ancillary markets out there that I think we're exploring.

And many of the manufacturers had, um, lower priced, smaller units

that were available to dealers to buy that they didn't have before.

And now they're much more rugged units.

They're, um, suitable for campgrounds and public campgrounds, but they're

also suitable for, uh, more rustic environments, um, and some of the,

um, dispersed camping we might see.

Now, I know the, the campgrounds might feel, well, you know,

what's that mean for us?

I think what it means is that, that we're gonna have a wider customer base

because those people are going to do both.

I don't think it's a either/or for a lot of these folks, and Scott,

you may have some data on this.

But they not only wanna do the rustic camping, but they also wanna have the

regular campground experience, whether they're en route or maybe that's in their,

their final destination too, but they're combining those kind of trips and these

newer, um, smaller, lighter weight, but more rugged units allow them to do both.

And I think that's, that bodes well for the future of the industry because

those buyers typically are gonna be much younger than the typical, you know, uh-

Mm-hmm

… Phil Ingrassia: 45-year-old, 55-year-old buyer.

So I think that was a really good, um, sign for the industry who we're kind of

in the doldrums right now, but at least the manufacturers are thinking about new

markets and bringing in new people to the RV business and by extension camping.

I think that's interesting 'cause, like, I don't

remember, Scott and you and I have had conversations about this, right?

But the differences in demographics and what they expect and their expectations

and their ability and willingness to spend on not just RVs, but all kinds

of things we've talked about, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like, I think there's probably a- Like you

said, Phil, I agree with you.

I think these people are doing multiple trips in multiple different places.

I think perhaps I'm gonna macro the industry out on private campgrounds and

say like, some of the private campground owners have a problem with it because it's

a new problem that they didn't have in the last, you know, six, seven years, right?

Harvest Hosts came up, Hipcamp came up, uh, these other places came up.

Previously, you were just kind of competing with state parks or

BLM land or, or stuff like that.

Uh, and now as there's been a shift toward more of a smaller, you know,

camper van stuff like that Phil was talking about, uh, but also these

platforms, I mean, the Harvest Host one just got acquired by Choice Hotels,

which would be really interesting to see what they do for them for $130 million.

So obviously there's some belief there in the future of that vertical.

But I don't think campground owners need to be scared about this.

I think they just need to be cognizant of like, this is a different experience,

and how do I make sure that I'm appealing to this different generation that I

maybe haven't had to appeal to before?

Can we take a brief respite there, Scott?

Like, I, I wanna get to everybody else, but like, do you have data on that?

Yeah.

The, the, um The, the typical camper, and they are, uh, really heavily loaded

in that, um, under 45, 50-year-old band, do very much, they either are

or they seek to have those, those types of different experiences.

Or, and it could be, uh, going to a, like a music festival or something too.

You know, that, uh, is kind of an under- underestimated part of the market.

Uh, and that's, especially the younger generation, they

re- that, that's what they do.

That's what they're doing with RVs a lot is, is that kind of stuff.

So yeah, the, the, um…

And then there's a smaller band at the top who will not stay anywhere

but a campground that has full hookups, but that's shrinking.

Over time, that keeps shrinking more and more.

And so yeah, the, the multi-use, uh, we're, we're absolutely

seeing it, it migrate that way.

We're seeing, um, you know, people, if they wanna take a trip that, you

know, they may, they're still gonna stay at the private campgrounds.

They, you know, they still wanna do that, but in between, on the way there,

they might wanna stop and stay at a, at a farm or a, a winery or a brewery.

Um, you know, it's, uh, it adds something to their trip, and I think, you know, for

the industry overall, that's what we want.

I mean, from your perspective, Phil, absolutely, 'cause, uh, you can sell

more RVs because people, you know, want to have these multiple uses.

Um, as a private campground owner, you may see it as somewhat of

a threat, but I don't think so.

It's kind of, it's that idea of get more people out there doing this,

and the more they're out there, the more likely they are to stop in.

So, and then, you know, that's where the marketing part comes in, too.

Um, so yeah, it, it is something, and I'm glad the RV

industry is responding to that.

Um, you know, overlanding is, is, is a, a growing segment.

Um, and those overlanders like to d- the…

What we know they like to do is they like to have really good gear when they go out.

Um, and then they like to stay someplace nice when they come back.

Uh, so it's, um, it, it, it's a, it's a great segment.

It's, and again, a growing segment.

Absolutely

Cathy, you have any thoughts on this as the only-

I do, I do

… Brian Searl: person brave enough to own a campground on here, yeah, do you?

Um, I would agree with a lot of what Scott's saying.

Um, the younger camper is an experiential camper.

So you as a private park owner, um, can either offer more experiences,

like we actually had hot air balloons at our park this year.

Um, so you can offer unique experiences and give them a reason to come and stay

with you, or you can not pivot, not change, and watch your market shrink.

Um, so we've always loved to do unique things because Chrissy

and I just love event planning.

Um, I don't know, maybe in another life we were event planners, I don't know.

Um, so we enjoy bringing something new to the table each year, and, um, I'm

trying to get, um, Greg Emmert to come with his other hat because he's an

amazing birder, and I wanna do a whole weekend around bird watching, because

we downloaded this app and discovered we have like 223 different varieties of

birds that are usually around our park.

I didn't even know there were 223 different varieties of

birds- … in New York State.

So- Neither did I until I met Greg.

Exactly.

So the thing is, I think that's what we have to understand is, and maybe, you

know, the fact that I, I've been in this space so long, I remember when adding

cable TV was a really big thing- Mm-hmm

in the '90s.

So, you know, the market keeps changing.

People are still camping, but they're camping differently.

And so part of it is deciding what kind of guest you want and going after your

guest, and if they want more experiences, then you need to figure out ways to give

them more unique experiences, because I think that is the future camper,

I really do, and that's why they're stopping at those other unique places

and camping on farms and doing other things besides a traditional campground.

So let me ask you this, Cathy.

I'll put you on the spot, and you can just say you don't wanna

answer if you don't wanna answer, but it's not a hard question.

It's just a creative question, right?

Uh, like if, let's say this trend continues, let's say for the

next 20 years we continue to have the boomers age out, which we're

pretty sure it'll happen, right?

Unless we figure out how to live forever, which we might with AI, you never know.

Uh, but let's assume the, the boomers continue to age out.

Let's assume this tr- let's assume this trend continues with Phil,

where they continue to buy smaller camper vans, where they're willing

to travel, where they're doing more Harvest Hosts and Hipcamp, but also

balancing that with private campgrounds.

How does a private campground look in 15, 20 years if they're really successful?

Like, what, what radically changes, or is it just small changes?

Well, I think that one of the things will be adding

more unique lodging options.

That kinda goes back to the glamping piece.

We have four geo domes, and I can say they are a very different guest

than our regular camper guest.

It's not the same guest that chooses to stay in our cabins.

Um, and you just have to kind of do research on your local

market and ask questions.

You know, I love the fact that I'm, we'll say, semi-absentee now, so when I'm at the

campground, I get to be the welcome wagon.

I get to talk to campers, ask them what they love about our park.

"What if I, if I, if I had unlimited money, what would you like me to add?"

is a question I oftentimes ask, and it's amazing the responses you will get if

you actually ask people questions on one on one, or, "Why do you choose our park?

What do you like about, you know, what do you like best about us?

What do you like least?"

Um, we are gonna all adapt and change, and I think that the change will be different

depending on where your market is.

I say the same thing when I'm selling a campground.

Just because the current owner is doing X, Y, and Z doesn't mean you have to.

Um, if you like fishing and this park happens to be close to a major lake, you

could add trolling motor stations and be all about competi- competition fishermen,

even if the nev- previous owner never, ever, ever tried to grab that market.

So I think that private owners have to figure out what markets are available

to me and which markets do I wanna serve, and we have to stop trying

to be all things to all people, 'cause we're not gonna do that well.

And we all try it to some degree, but I think most of us that are successful in

this space know what our core customer is, and that's really the messaging

we're getting, and we just happen to get some of the other ones as well.

Michael, what do you think?

You have a lot of experience with marketing parks and,

and working for Taco too.

And he makes awesome site maps.

I just got mine.

There you go.

Uh, no, I mean, I, I think I, I'm, I'm thrilled that Cathy said what she

said, and I say that because, look, a- and people like Scott and you,

Brian, have a lot of data, which is very helpful, but I think parks also,

I think it's very good that Cathy asks her guests, "W- why are you here?"

You know, they're hearing it sort of directly from the source on,

"Why did you choose our park?"

And I think as the industry really in general becomes more segmented, so

you're glamping, and look, we talked about it, I know last time I was on,

on the show about the more extended stay parks and those kinds of options.

Parks are gonna have to make a choice, like which direction do you wanna go?

And like Cathy said, there's very few parks I can think of

off the top of my head that could be all things to all people.

I mean, it's just very hard.

It's very expensive.

It's very it's not the easiest thing to do, even though I think a lot of

campground owners and business owners in general think they're like the exception.

I, I got news for them.

They are not.

And so I think you really just have to figure out what, what is

your, what are you able to offer?

What are you able to specialize in?

And just really lean into that.

And again, like you said, I am a marketer, so I'm more about, "Hey, what do you

have now and what can, what can we, how can we make you stick out for that?"

And, and look, for a lot of the campgrounds, you know, what I kind

of personally call kind of the middle class, it's not the bare bones extended

stay parks, it's not the high-end kind of parks that I know like, you know,

another guest, Blue Water, has a lot of.

It's that middle of the road, "Hey, we've got concrete sites and it's secure and

we have a pool," and like, that's it.

Great.

Then maybe you lean into some other aspect of that.

Maybe you're a cost-efficient option or something like that.

But sort of identify what you can do and what you're able to

do and then just, just hit it.

That, that's kind of my thing.

'Cause there's just so many different ways people can camp

now, as we all know, you know?

And between glamping, which is one of the few, you know, segments that are still

growing, at least whenever I check out the RVIA shipment report, those, those

are the units that are still increasing year over year, or the extended stay

parks that seem to be more of those leaning into that kind of option.

There's just gonna be a lot of different, uh, choices, I guess, for

the, for the RVer to choose from.

So don't try to have a little bit of everything.

Try to have a lot of one or two things, I guess, for lack of a better term.

All right, so let me give you the same question I gave

Cathy, but a little bit reframed then.

Mm-hmm.

And say like, let's say you had enough money to do whatever you wanted

and to build a campground in 15, 20 years.

Mm-hmm.

How would you build it?

Oof.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a cop-out for sure.

Uh, so but what I, uh, what I would truly say to that is I think it is, you know,

it's so dependent on so many different factors now, whereas, you know, 20, 30

years ago there was, I don't wanna say a single template for a campground or

an RV park, but there were the basics and everyone kind of followed the same

thing, where now I think it's so, it's so niche and, and you can, you can be

10 different types of things that you really have to identify, you know, either

what your market can support or what you're really passionate about, too.

I mean, that's the thing, a lot of the-

Well, I'm with you.

I'm asking what you would build, Michael.

Like, if you, if it was your passion, like what would you think would be successful?

Oh, fair enough.

Okay.

Um-

All right, let's try asking the question a different way,

Brian, and maybe he'll actually answer.

No, no, no.

All right.

That, Br- how Brian asked it this last time was good.

So what I would personally do- … um, is, a- and again, this is truly just my

opinion, but I'm sort of, I don't wanna say old school, but give me the, like,

concrete pads, the sort of maybe, um, maybe a grill at each site or maybe a,

a bench that you set, but something to where, uh, in addition to the amenities,

it's, you've got the, the customer service that really is on steroids, if you will.

So you've got a concierge service, you've got someone

escorting everyone to the site.

You've got, you know, I, I would say just, uh, lean heavily on sort

of the more human interaction.

Still have the nice amenities, still have modern amenities, okay?

So concrete, that's kind of essential, pool, et cetera.

But for me, I think that's gonna be something that sticks out in the,

in the short term, is the sort of emphasis on the sort of human-to-human

kind of interaction on that.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm gonna put myself on the record and I'm gonna say like

niche down, I 100% agree with you.

We're gonna have to niche down.

You gotta do your own feasibility study.

You gotta figure out, like Cathy said, who is your market?

Who's in the area?

What's your demographic?

Who can you attract?

And then who can you attract by changing, modifying, adjusting who you're

going after, what amenities you have?

So niching down is incredibly important.

But I think from a macro level, if you forced me to put something in my, in

my mouth, I would say neighborhoods.

Mm.

Like, I think you're gonna have to create, like, like we had a great guy

on the show last week, it was like our fifth week episode without any

recurring guests, who just his aerial shot of his campground was kind of

like, like g- it sticks out in my mind, like Gaylord KOA is something similar.

Like the older campground that doesn't have the sites all immediately right next

to each other at a specific angle that has trees and landscaping and quiet and

breaks between everybody and it just, it feels like more camping than RVing.

And I think you, if you, if you take that and apply that down to

a niche, I think those are gonna be the really successful people-

Mm

in 15, 20 years.

We'll find out.

I'm just thinking myself.

Simon, what do you think?

Has this, has this kind of discussion happened in Europe already?

Are we behind?

Are we ahead?

Is it going there?

No, I mean, it's, uh, Europe is incredibly family-focused.

Um, you know, the, the seasonal holiday market, that's the main

push, and they have worked towards this more, you know, camping feel,

outdoors feel, you know, dividers between, uh, sites, but the community

at the same time and the amenities.

So I think it's definitely more, you know, you go there, you feel at home, you feel

in nature, but then your kids can go nuts and do all the amenities and feel safe.

So that's kind of a big thing that has really pushed on

most of the European scene.

Yeah, I mean, I think like, uh, like we were, we picked up a, picked

up a new park we're doing marketing for.

I'm not gonna say the name of it, but one of the more interesting things that

I saw that, that they were doing was, like, building the private fences and

the private gates around some of their sites for some of the long-term stays,

and just kind of, like, even that alone, I think, if you market to that or slap

that on a Google ad or somewhere like that is, is just different enough.

Like, it feels like it's not a radical change, but it's different

enough that you'll set yourself apart from 60% of the rest of the market.

And so I think that's what, that's what my argument is with

the neighborhoods, whether it's a private neighborhood for you and your

family or a pri- like, not saying neighborhood like a condominium, right?

Or it's grouped by glamping, or grouped by type of RV, or grouped

by niche, or grouped by theme or whatever you, whatever your thing is.

I think that's where it's gonna be successful.

But it sounds like maybe then what you're saying, Simon, is that Europe is a little

bit more ahead of us in the neighborhood concept, because it sounds like maybe

if, if we're going there, and if I'm right, but it sounds like that might be

a, a thing that they've already moved to while still preserving community.

I mean, it's market-driven.

Like I said, it, the majority of all the big parks are, are family parks, and

it's designed for that family experience.

And I think it's definitely different than probably a majority US market share.

Um, so there is that natural just difference in the geography and, and

how the customer, you know, goes camping in Europe versus the US at the moment.

But it's definitely-

If you-

… Simon Neal: a nice, uh, recipe and it works well.

Is a, is a part of that though because, like, the smaller

camper vans have already, like, I know that's not the entire thing, but they've

already been there in Europe for a long time, whereas they're just starting

to kind of really come mainstream.

Is that fair Phil , in the last few years?

Yeah.

There's a couple of manufacturers who have really leaned into the

Euro design and, um, the van camper market has been the, you know, the

highlight growth market on the motor home side for going on five years now.

Um, so I do think that that is a completely different type

of buyer than we have seen.

Um, some of them are, um, you know, people that are still

doing, you know, remote work.

Uh, you know, we, we hear about people coming back to the office, but there's

still a lot of people out there who have the flexibility to, um, you know,

work out of an RV wherever they want to in, you know, in North America.

So, um, yeah, I do think that, that, that, the Euro style RV is, is

going to continue to grow in the US.

We're already seeing it with what the manufa-

Good.

Did we lose him?

Nope, he froze

All right, Phil froze.

So, yeah, I think w- Phil will come back in a second.

Are you back, Phil?

I'm back.

Sorry.

Okay.

There you go.

Continue your thought.

That's it.

I

don't know where you lost me, but yeah, there,

the, the Euro, the Euro, uh, trend in RV design is continuing.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's … Like, the way I look at

it, and I, I hate to, to … I'm not a stereotypical guy, right?

But if I step back and wanted to lump the buckets, then if you look at, like,

I, I imagine that, and, and Scott, you probably have data on this, right?

But I imagine that the people who buy the smaller camper vans, on a 20,000-foot

macro stereotypical view, tend to skew more toward, I don't know if you wanna

call it traditional families, but younger families with kids, versus the Class

As are typically the people we've seen camping, the boomers, for, like, 50, 60

years, who bring their families out, but don't camp with their families constantly.

Is that backed up by any data, Scott?

Or am I just making that up?

Sure.

Yeah, yeah, absolu- absolutely, it, it does.

The, um, you know, the, the families, you know, with, especially young children

and so on, the, the floor plan, you know, is a, is a, is a big driver.

They like to, you know, what, what do you have inside?

How does everybody stay out of each other's way?

Um, versus the, kind of the more adventurous types.

We do, one of the things we do see overall is still the, um,

aspirational RV is, is a motor home.

It, um, almost regardless of, of where they sit currently, you know,

whether they can afford it or not, or whether their, their lifestyle,

you know, supports it or whatever-

Well, I mean, my aspirational house has a basketball

court, and a movie theater, and a couple swimming pools too, right?

But I-

Right

… Brian Searl: I'm not getting that thing, so.

Well, you know, again, it, it, you know, depends on where

you're heading, what direction.

So, um, but yeah, the, people want motor homes.

It's, when people, and Phil pr- knows this already too, if you ask someone

to picture, you know, close their eyes and picture an RV in their, their

minds, it's gonna be a motor home.

Yeah.

It's just, it is.

It's the i- iconic, um, you know, and for many it is al- you know, an Airstream

is also, you know, one of those, um, a- aspirational types of, of units too.

But i- in general, you know, we see, and it, it's funny 'cause I know

the, the folks at RVIA always talk about this when we do the research.

It's like, why is it motor homes are, always trend up so high?

It's, it, it's be- because we know it's a smaller portion of the market, but if you

ask people what they would like to buy, they're, it's, it's always at the top.

I mean, the reason I bring this up and just to kind of close the loop

and, and bring everything back together, at least in my mind, which sometimes

is broken and very complex and doesn't make sense to anybody else, uh, is, is

that, you know, I, I think that when I say Europe is ahead, I mean that Europe

has, because they've had more camper vans like this and smaller units, they've

tended to attract more of the younger demographic than perhaps we have to our

private campgrounds in the United States, although that trend is starting to shift.

And so then maybe the campgrounds have already started to react to

that demand, whereas our campgrounds haven't quite gotten there yet.

Is that fair, Simon, or am I still off base?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's been around a long time and I think,

uh, you know, even if the trend grows with these smaller campers, people

still want a bit of comfort and a bit of luxury every now and again, and

you're gonna get that in a campground.

You're not gonna get it in a field.

So I think, like Cathy also said, that, you know, as long as that sector

grows, it's gonna be a positive, like, overflow into the campgrounds.

It will come back.

So, uh, definitely from the European market, people with small campers,

they will travel a long way.

They will do one or two nights on the side of a road or a field, and then they

will go in the private campground, and they'll really enjoy their time there.

So I think there's a mix, but you will, you will get a net positive.

All right.

I wanna come back to you for the Nordic study in a second, but Miguel,

I know you're mostly glamping, but do you have any insights

into this in the Mexican market?

Are there people that are starting to buy camper vans or RVs of any kind?

Yeah.

Well, I think that, and I love the word that, the, the, that you used.

Um, that type of- - and structure, um, it's an aspirational

one here in Latin America.

And it, it is pretty funny because, um, I saw Raf, you know Rafael, that has been

a guest in, in some other shows, and what I told him is, "I think that RV parks are

missing that type of market that aspire to do like the Route 66 or like to rent a, a

motor house and, and drive across America.

And if you do that as part of your marketing strategies, I

think that you might find a niche that might be interesting."

Now, for the local market, like, to have a, a motor home or a RV

here in La- in Mexico, it's very difficult because so far there's no

liability insurance for third parties.

So th- that missing part is the one that, that prevents, um, that

market to, to actually happen.

But it's really aspirational.

I'm seeing couple of people that they are building those, like, tear- teardrop,

like, kind of, um, um, RVs that you can drag with, with any, um, with, with any

vehicle, and I'm foreseeing that that be- that will be huge in LatAm as a whole.

At the end, let's not forget that pretty much regardless of your location, and but

that, this is a hot take on my side, um A lot of the, I mean, most of your visitors

will be with, uh, like people that live within a three hours driving range.

So for you to, to be able to cater that experience to them, plus, um, having

like all of these amenities that you were discussing previously, that will be huge.

So maybe like having…

Uh, remember there was a, a service that I u- that I used while I

was in college in the States.

I think that it's called, it was called FlexCar, where you will, like, use a NFC

card, and that will allow you to rent the car for a couple o- of hours or not.

Like having that-

Yeah, Zipcar, stuff like that.

Yes, I think I'm-

Yes, exactly.

Uh, my point is that maybe doing that where, uh, or like this, uh, pool

of investors that, like a timeshare type of, uh, agreement, right?

Where like there's a pool of investors that buy a nice unit, that they use

it, uh, for any amount of weeks or days, uh, during the year, but the

other remaining days is generating, uh, like some return on that investment.

That might be an interesting, um, business case as well.

But in Latin America, I mean, you will do that, like illegally, but

at the end, that's happening across the Baja Peninsula from Tijuana all

the way to La Paz, which is south.

And a lot of people, basically, they, they bring, uh, to Mexico

their, their RV, um, and then they leave it in the south of Baja.

So it, that's like a RV graveyard or the- if you wanna get like, uh, some

interesting deals, uh, that would be the place to go there, because at

the end, they don't wanna drive back with the RV to the States, right?

They, they wanna fly back to States.

So yeah, um, b- but trust me, I'm working on that, um, because that would

be interesting in LatAm as a whole.

All right, so sort of related to that, and then we'll go

to Simon about the Nordic study, and then we'll finish up with everybody

asking some questions of each other.

Um, I had a client who I was talking to.

Uh, no, actually they weren't a client.

Somebody was asking me about a campground or an RV park in Yuma,

Arizona, which is surrounded on both sides by, I think Mexicali.

Am I pronouncing that right?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and then Tijuana further to the west, uh, a couple hours I think.

But we, we were, we were talking about whether there was potentially a market for

people to cross the border from Mexico and either do short-term stays at a property

like this, day passes, uh, you know, place to stay so they don't have to wait at the

border crossings for two and a half hours.

Do you feel like there's a market for that for, for properties that

hug the border anywhere, Miguel, or are we kinda off base there?

And can you repeat the last part again, please?

Just, uh, whether, well, which last part?

But what, what, um, is there a market for people who live in Mexico who

cross the border and go camping either short-term or medium-term with

properties that are in, like, Yuma, Arizona, right across the border?

Oh, yeah.

Whether, uh, it's because they're going to work

or, like, that kind of thing.

Le- let's not forget that, that, um, in, like, if you

are going abroad, regardless of your location, that's something aspirational

and luxurious tourism, even if you are staying in a, a beat-up hotel room, right?

My point is that, uh, I think that it's critical for those locations that are

on the border, and that can apply for also, like, Canada and the States border.

Uh, if you, if you promote that with these local influencers from the

other side of the border, I think that, uh, that, that might be a

niche, uh, worth taking a look at.

Um- And the final thing will be, um, for Mexicans, uh, it's, it's kind of

funny, but like, um, the, the, the, the, the households with the higher income

in Mexico, they stopped doing tourism in Mexico for the last two or three

years because, uh, with the dollar, um, weakness, it was actually cheaper

and more luxurious to go overseas.

That's why- Hmm … um, the country that ha- or the nationality that has

the largest, um, purchasing, purchasing power in Japan, it's Mexicans.

So that means that every Mexican that go to, uh, the other side of the world,

they will spend more i- i- in Japan than an American or an, a European.

My point is that, uh, a lot of Mexicans, they are looking for those type of

experiences, and it was some, some inter- some interesting conversations

happened during the glamping show because at the end you just need a

landing page, that it's in Spanish or the language that, that you want.

And

WhatsApp.

Yeah.

Now with AI, like, hey, like, uh- yeah … and have the WhatsApp button as well.

The WhatsApp is huge.

My point, and, and have like the content catered for that

nationality, and that would be great.

Li- like for example, I was talking with, with a couple from North Carolina,

and I told them that when I was in college in there in, in 2008, um, there

were a little bit over 1 million, uh, Mexicans living in both Carolinas, right?

Uh, North and South.

And if you take a look, uh, in Coachella that you were discussing about, uh,

music festivals, a lot of the experience economy in California is driven now

by Latino descent people, right?

Like second or third generation.

My point is that we're missing that market as, as an industry, and this

cross-pollination, um, like, um, exercise that we're doing right now, I'm pretty

sure that it's generating a lot of value to, to our listeners and viewers.

Cool.

Thank you, Sir.

I was ho- I was hoping we were just struggling 'cause everybody thinks Yuma

is the death of the RV industry, and maybe it is, or the RV park industry, right?

Uh, 'cause there's nothing really there.

But I think if you reach across the border, that's a whole brand new market.

And then we were also talking about bringing back some of the Canadians

who can come down, leave their RV in Yuma, and maybe you create

kind of a tour guide planning trip excursion into Mexico so they don't

have to drive their RV over there.

They leave their RV at the park, and then maybe you can bring different Canadians.

Yeah.

I think that it will be better, and I will like to have th- this conversation

maybe s- somewhere else, because at the end we can go into details.

But as a whole, I will, like, recommend to have, like, some campaigns targeted

to these individuals across the border.

Make things easy for them, maybe like a pickup service.

So, I, I mean, they take you to the RV park or the, or the RV rental, uh, place.

Um, and then p- partner up with couple of influencers and local media in

the other part of the country, uh, on the other side of the border,

sorry, and that will be an interesting market for you to take a look at.

Awesome.

Thank you, sir.

Simon, what you got for the Nordics?

Yeah, interesting, uh, statistics.

So I read a quick summary on Sweden in particular.

So they're a pretty big camping country, but in the European perspective,

they're all the way in the north.

Uh, temperate, cool climate, you know, freezing in the winter, lots

of snow, not so nice in the summer.

But they had a great season.

They were up 3% from 2025, 12.7

million overnight stays.

Um, but what's really interesting is when you dig down into the statistics,

the majority of the uplift came from the middle European countries,

particularly Germany and Holland.

Now, they are famous every year for going south-

For the holidays

for holidays because, you know, it's cold and crap weather.

We drive 10 hours south, we're on the Adriatic or Mediterranean coast.

We have sunshine, beers, a nice holiday.

Um, but this summer was really, really hot, like really hot across the

whole of Europe, several heat waves.

So I think what happened is they said, "We're actually too hot.

We're fed up."

And instead they turned around and drove north to cool down a bit.

And basically a result of that, Sweden got this massive boost, uh, in their

market And I don't even think that was driven by any particular advertising.

So if they kind of clued into that and said, "Wow, it's,

it's a heat wave in summer.

Come to Sw- Sweden and cool down," it may have even been more,

you know, of a bonus for them.

So really interesting trend and statistic.

And at the same time, uh, the Swedish overnight stays are probably

30% of the cost of the southern typical Italy, Croatia, France.

So now they've seen that and they've kind of sampled Sweden

for, like, 30% of the cost.

I think that's a really good sign for them going forward.

So nice lesson learned these days.

Weather's changing.

You know, if things like this do happen, jump on the

marketing, take advantage of it.

Cathy, how was your summer?

It was a good summer.

We actually were, um, significantly up from the previous year, and I attribute

a lot of that to having lived through gas pr- uh, price situations previously

since I've been in this space so long.

And we did a lot of marketing pivot, and we took on more long-term stays, more

monthlies, and we offered a lot of, um, camp two weekends in a row, you know,

we'll store the rig for you scenarios.

So we reacted to the fact that we realized people were worrying about their budgets,

and we captured more of the market share because we were sensitive to that.

We did not discount our camp sites.

We just gave additional offerings like the storage.

Um, and it worked really well for us.

Awesome.

Glad to hear it.

Okay, so let's close out the show here.

We got, like, 10 minutes left.

We're not gonna close out too fast.

Uh, but we kind of turn it over.

Cathy, you're our guest.

You've never seen this before.

But we typically, like, turn over the hosting duties, 'cause, you know,

I'm not really a good host anyway, uh, and say, like, ask a bunch of

questions to your fellow peers.

So Cathy, do you have any questions for any of the, the guests here on

the show that you'd like to ask?

I'm gonna start with Simon.

Um, what is the differences you see in creating a camp map, uh, for a

European customer versus a US customer?

What is the expectation of what their map or guest guide should be like?

Can't believe we've never asked you that before, Simon.

That's a good question.

Yeah.

I think, um, there's a particular style in the US.

It's quite simplified and in some way matches the, the typical layout of your

traditional RV sites, pull in, uh, pull through, back in, things like that.

So there's definitely look and feel difference.

In Europe it's much more kind of it needs to look more like nature.

It's got a bit high-level design.

Um, a bit more inspirational I would say.

Um, and then a focus on the amenities, really make them pop out the cell, 'cause

that's a big thing in the European market.

So in terms of actually what's on the map, almost identical.

It's mainly just the style and the format difference, I would say

Okay.

I was just curious.

Um, I have not camped in Europe.

I've been to Europe on many a vacation, but not camping, so

I was just curious about that.

Um, I'm going to switch it over to my friend Michael Moore and ask have

you done any, uh, European, um, maps?

Because I know you do a ton of stuff nationwide or ha- I

know you do some in Canada.

Mm-hmm.

Do you see differences, uh, in expectations or style or feel as well?

You know, I'm gonna leave the European market to Simon, I think.

He is the, he's the- … expert there.

He's European, so, um, we actually don't, uh, do a lot of, of European

stuff, or Eddie, I should say.

But, you know, I, I, what I would say to that though is, um, uh, I mean, and

everything Simon said is absolutely right as far as the kind of maps that we do

for American and even Canadian customers.

It's kind of straight to the point.

Like, they d- they, a lot of them, I mean, not everyone, but a lot of them just want,

"Hey, I need to make sure this, this, and this is on there, and, uh, you know, let

me double check it and we're good to go."

And so it's…

I don't know that as much time and care is put into it.

I mean, you spent a lot of time and care on your map, Cathy, believe

me, but, uh, you're the exception.

I know you guys crazy, but-

You're, well-

You can say it.

Yeah.

But you're the exception.

So, um, but no, I think, I think there is an emphasis, at least for people

we work with, on something, uh, simple that they, they don't really have to,

uh, explain a lot to the customer.

It's more about like, "Hey, here you go.

Here's this, that, or the other, and, you know, have a good stay."

Does that make sense?

Let me ask you this, Michael, let me reframe it in

something you may have since you don't do the Europe, Eur- European side.

You see a difference between maps with private campgrounds and glamping

resorts, if you've done any of those?

Hmm.

Yeah, we have.

Um, I, I would actually say that it's just in our experience that

the glamping resorts absolutely, uh, are more, what would be the word?

I guess customized.

I mean, I would sort of equate them to more what Simon said

about the European maps.

Like, the glamping resorts definitely, uh, put more of an emphasis on the

various points of, of interest in the park or, or amenities or something like

that, as opposed to the RV parks and campgrounds, which again, like you said,

is very kind of, "Here's the row of sites and here's the front office and

here's the pool, and have a nice day."

So

All right, Michael, you got a question for anybody?

Yeah.

I was gonna, uh, actually ask Phil, uh, who I'm, I know, you know, obviously,

as head of the dealer association, what, uh, have you seen, uh, be sort

of a successful collaboration between, say, you know, RV parks and dealers?

Meaning, you know, and it could be something, uh,

specific on the ground level.

It could be kind of high-level stuff.

But, you know, a- as we've -- I know I've said this several times,

we're all in the same boat here as far as the camping industry.

So whatever we can do to kind of help each other, I think is a good thing.

So.

Well, certainly, you know, all camping is local sort of.

And, and, um, I think one of the things that I've, I've seen s- work

successfully, um, some of the state campground owners groups, um, have

worked with local dealer groups to get campground guides in the dealerships.

It seems like a no brain- a no-brainer, but there's not a ton

of that that necessarily goes on.

Um, and I, I really try to encourage that when- whenever I can.

Um, the other thing we've seen, especially in some of the s- um,

maybe the spring or fall, uh, dealers have partnered with campgrounds to

do, um, maybe new product showcases-

Hmm

um, right at the campground, and I think, um,

those can be valuable as well.

I think that's an ongoing point of discussion too, and I-- sometimes it's

driven by the state, state associations.

It just depends on how active that state association group is

and, and how they wanna reach out to their local dealer groups

Michael, can I answer that as well?

Yes, please.

Okay.

So this past year we partnered with a, um, RV dealership that has three locations,

um, all within a reasonable drive time of our campground, and we offered a coupon

that they could attach to every sale that they did for a free one-night stay, and

we didn't even put that they had to stay two nights, just free one night stay.

And we also offered a discount if somebody was looking to be a long-term stay.

Um, interestingly, we didn't get a ton of the free one-night stays, um, redeemed.

A lot of people just forgot, uh, you know, stuff like that.

They said later when people said that they found out about us at someplace else.

But, um, we did get three new long-term stays that literally had

them deliver the rig to the park.

They came and- … saw the park, liked it, and delivered it.

Yeah.

So, um, and one of the things that came out of this is we have

identified four, um, different dealerships that we, uh, different companies

that we would like to do something with on some sort of level this year.

And if they do a spring or fall open house, um, we're gonna try to have

a small table and have information on our park, because I think as this

industry gets more Um, truncated in some ways as we have more corporations and

things like that entering the space.

I think that part of why I believe people camp in the first place, which

is that it is so much more social than going and staying at a hotel,

we're losing a little bit of that.

As we have all of these new conveniences that people can check in automatically and

all this, you're losing that human touch.

So getting out there and kind of putting some face time into doing this,

I think will be very beneficial to us because unfortunately a lot of the

RV shows that people have gone to for years, they're seeing attendance drop.

I'm hoping it comes back, but we are to the point now where we

only do one RV show for the park.

So we're trying to say, "Okay, let's take that time and where else could we go?"

Mm.

So we're trying some partnerships with dealerships, and after the

success we had literally because a dealership asked us last year, um,

we're gonna see where, where that goes.

We're gonna expand on that a little more and do more with them, and

I will be blessing them with KOA guides and Campground Owners of

New York guides if they would like them, since I'm on both boards.

That's great.

I love to hear that.

And, uh, you know, I think, you know, I would love to talk to you and maybe use

your experience as something that we could use in as example and get out to the rest

of our membership about here's an example of something that, that actually works.

And, uh, it, it's a win-win for everybody, and again, we're, we're

trying to lift the entire outdoor hospitality as- so, you know, industry.

Um-

Exactly

… Phil Ingrassia: I'm gonna have to drop off, but it was good seeing

you, and we'll see you next year.

Thanks, Phil.

Talk soon.

All right, uh, Scott, you got any questions for anybody?

Um, I was gonna ask Miguel, 'cause we, we touched on it just briefly

at the, the glamping show, but the idea of camping in, in Mexico, it seems

like no one really talks about it.

Um, but it, but it also seems to be like there's a group of people that

love to go camping in Mexico, but it's just hasn't really opened up.

I mean, what do we gotta do to see, uh, Mexico as a destination for camping?

Well, um, that's a great question.

Th- the, the thing that, that we're facing, not only in Mexico but in

Latin America as a whole, is that even though the, the, some of our countries,

like Mexico or Brazil, are one…

They are some of the most, uh, biodiverse, uh, countries in the world, um, our

national parks are not as well-equipped as the American national parks, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Um, that being, like, very basic infrastructure, like paved roads

or that there are, uh, RV parks or places where you can camp.

That plus the, that a lot of people, they have this, uh, feeling that it

might be unsafe to park in these areas.

That has not allowed the industry to boom.

Mm-hmm.

And that's why we're seeing such a huge jump on the glamping industry in Mexico

as a whole because basically we went from zero to not 100, but, like, to a 70, and

we basically skipped the camping phase.

Um, so sure, a lot of people, they wanna camp, but i- it's the lack of

infrastructure and the, and that they don't feel safe, um, uh, that, uh, doesn't

allow for n- for camping to, to grow.

Now, what we are seeing in couple of the glamping, um, uh, properties in, in Mexico

is that they are devoting a small part of their, um, pieces of land for camping.

So at the end that is helping a little bit.

But, um, I think that we need, we need, like, a national policy on that.

Sadly, I don't foresee that that will happen in the upcoming eight years.

Um, uh, but it is the glamping that it's making, like, some sort- … of relief for

that, uh, for that, uh, market right now.

I don't know if that answered the question.

No, no, it does.

It does.

No, but well, we obviously need to talk more at some point when, when we can.

All right.

Well, we'd love-

Sure

… Brian Searl: to continue the conversation, but we've gotta be cognizant of

everybody's time here, and then we also have Outwired to do in, in, in

about 45 minutes, so, uh, but final thoughts, we'll go around, uh, and

start, start with me, you, Miguel.

Final thoughts, and then where can they learn more about, uh, either

camping in Mexico or your glamping resort or the Mexican Glamping

Association, wherever you work or not.

Yes.

Yeah, sure.

Well, um, you can always look for our association, uh, on the Spanish, uh, like

website asociacionmexicanadeglamping.com.

But, I mean, if you wanna have like this one-to-one conversations,

which I think that, uh, we…

I, I have several pending, uh, conversations like that, you can

always look for me on LinkedIn.

I'm as Miguel Huerta.

My company, it's called Nantli Living.

Our website is nantli.travel.

And the, my final thought will be, um, be very mindful on how

you're gonna close this year.

Uh, I mean, Q4 is, uh, coming, uh, the winter is coming as, uh, Game of

Thrones will say, and it's, uh, uh, we need to be very, very strong with that.

At least in Latin America, summer was very awful.

Um, but I'm, I, I am already seeing numbers, uh, for Q3 and Q4.

I'm seeing, uh, like strong numbers on that.

But, uh, I, I will recommend for people not to take things for granted.

Again, generating demand is the major challenge that I'm seeing re- regardless

of the, uh, location and the property.

So start playing, uh, and playing with couple of ideas

on how you can increase demand.

Thanks for being here, Miguel.

Appreciate it.

Simon, final thoughts, and where can they learn more about CampMap?

Yeah, final thoughts is focus now is on the upcoming show

season, so starting in two weeks in Croatia, Germany, then over to

the US for the OHI and the KOA.

So looking forward to that, and also looking forward to the results

of the, the OHI elections as well.

Um-

What were those again, Cathy?

I'm sorry, we forgot.

Okay.

Sorry, Simon, go ahead.

No worries.

Yeah, you can find out more about CampMap at campmap.com,

or you can find me directly on LinkedIn.

Thanks for being here, Simon.

Uh, Michael, final thoughts, and where can they learn more

about anything you wanna promote?

Yeah.

Uh, I would say for me, I, I know a lot of, uh, campgrounds and folks are

looking forward to heading into the new year, uh, with a little more positive

outlook than we had the last couple years, so I think everyone's ready for that.

Um, for TACO, or Texas Campgrounds, uh, you can visit tacomembers.com.

Uh, and then AGS, uh, Guest Guides, is just agspub.com.

Awesome.

Thanks for being here, Michael.

Cathy, final thoughts, and then where can they learn more about Campground

or any of your hats you wanna promote?

All righty.

So, um, I am the national director of the, uh, Campground Brokers of America, so long

name, but campgroundbrokersofamerica.com.

You can, uh, find out more about the various brokers and reach me that way.

Um, you can find me on the Own a KOA page or, um, my campground is

the Catskill Mountains Gilboa KOA.

I just love camping, love the space, and, um, am thrilled to

be in it with multiple hats.

And I, uh, if you do…

Uh, plug for associations.

If you do not belong to an association, please join something.

I belong to every association my park can possibly belong to, which is many.

Um, state-

Does it have to be a campground association

or can it be any association?

I, I, it, it, I, I just feel that if you own a campground,

you should want to be involved federally, state, regionally, because

all of these things impact your life.

And so we need to help all of these associations continue to exist and

survive by paying our dues so that they can do what they do best for us, and be

as awesome as TAHCO is under Michael's, um, tutelage, because it is one of the

strongest state associations in the country, and it has a lot to do with him.

So join an association if you're a campground owner, please do.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Cathy.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here, Cathy.

Scott, final thoughts, last but not least.

Oh, just, uh, final thoughts are stay tuned for a

lot more, uh, information coming out in the next couple months.

Um, we'll be…

W- we've been working with a lot of different people this year.

You're gonna start seeing some of that information creep out

in presentations at shows.

I can't, you know, talk about it yet, but I will eventually.

And, um, yeah, looking forward to the new year, and if anybody has,

uh, questions they wanna ask on anything, please send them along.

Uh, you can go to my website, cairnconsultinggroup.com.

There's also a resource library that we are building bigger

and better all the time.

So, um, I'd love feedback on that as well.

Awesome.

Thanks for being here, Scott.

All right.

So for those of you who haven't, aren't sick and tired of me and

Scott yet, uh, in about 45 minutes or 50 minutes, something like that,

we'll be, uh, hosting Outwired Live.

We're gonna be talking about some, uh, occupancy numbers for fall travel.

We're gonna be talking about some boring stuff like the US

Treasury bond and how that impacts campground valuations that Mr.

Jeff Hoffman brought to our attention.

Uh, and then we're gonna talk-

It is a big deal.

Yep, and we're gonna be talking about some new, uh, some of the

new, um, AI agents that can browse and book travel for you and stuff like that.

So we'll be there in 55 minutes.

If not, we will see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

Thanks, guys.

I appreciate you staying.

Have a good night.

Bye-bye.

Bye.

Thank you.

Bye.