In the recent episode of MC Fireside Chats, host Brian Searl brought together a panel of outdoor hospitality experts to delve into the innovations shaping the glamping industry. Brian was joined by recurring guests Zach Stoltenberg, Todd Wynne-Parry, Angele Miller, Chris Jeub, Alessandro van de Loo, and special guests Jeremy Budge and Gene Eidelman, each offering unique perspectives on the challenges and opportunities within the sector. Zach Stoltenberg, representing Clockwork, shared insights on the architectural challenges and innovations in designing glamping resorts. His focus on guest experience and the business perspective highlighted the importance of balance in creating unique yet practical glamping accommodations. Todd Wynne-Parry, from Horwath HTL, discussed the broader implications of hotel brands entering the glamping market. His analysis of the Hilton-AutoCamp partnership shed light on the evolving landscape of outdoor hospitality, where traditional hotel brands see value in the unique offerings of glamping. Angele Miller introduced Creekside R&R glamping, emphasizing the franchise model’s potential to standardize and elevate the glamping experience while respecting local cultures and designs. Her concerns about adapting structures to various climates and terrains underscored the industry’s need for versatile and resilient accommodations. Chris Jeub, owner of Monument Glamping, touched on the creative challenges faced by glamping developers in navigating zoning and building departments. His experiences underscore the industry’s ongoing struggle with regulatory frameworks and the need for innovative solutions that comply with local codes. Alessandro van de Loo shared his experiences operating glamping resorts in Europe, highlighting the potential for 3D printed accommodations to revolutionize the industry by offering scalable, eco-friendly, and customizable options for resort developers. Jeremy Budge, the founder of Backland, a luxury eco-resort in Arizona, detailed the development of custom-designed, code-compliant tents. His journey from Under Canvas to establishing his own resort illustrated the innovative spirit driving the glamping industry forward. Gene Eidelman presented Azure Printed Homes, a company specializing in 3D printed structures using recycled plastic. His vision for sustainable, efficient, and customizable construction offers a promising solution to the glamping industry’s demand for unique and environmentally friendly accommodations. The discussion also ventured into the regulatory challenges of introducing novel concepts like 3D printed homes and custom tents into the market. Both Jeremy Budge and Gene Eidelman shared their experiences navigating the complexities of building codes and permits, underscoring the need for regulatory flexibility to accommodate innovation. The panelists explored the cost implications of such innovations, particularly the expenses associated with testing and compliance. The conversation highlighted the financial hurdles of pioneering new construction methods and the potential for scale to mitigate these challenges. Angele Miller’s concerns about adapting glamping units to extreme climates, such as those in Atlantic Canada, pointed to the necessity of designing accommodations that can withstand a wide range of environmental conditions while preventing issues like condensation. The potential for 3D printing technology to provide customized solutions for diverse glamping locations was a recurring theme. The ability to tailor accommodations to specific sites and climates could revolutionize the way glamping resorts are developed, offering an unprecedented level of flexibility and customization. In closing, the episode underscored the glamping industry’s role as a crucible for construction and hospitality innovation. By embracing new technologies and designs, the sector can offer unique, sustainable, and memorable experiences, setting a new standard for outdoor hospitality and potentially influencing broader construction practices.

This is MC Fireside Chats, a weekly show

featuring conversations with thought

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leaders, entrepreneurs, and outdoor

hospitality experts who share their

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insights to help your business succeed.

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Hosted by Brian Searl, the

founder and CEO of Insider Perks.

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Empowered by insights from Modern

Campground, the most innovative

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news source in the industry.

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Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to

another episode of MC Fireside Chats.

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I have no idea if you guys

actually saw that intro.

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It's the second time it's happened to

me where I can't see it in the back end.

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So for those of you listening to the

podcast, the entire show is flawless.

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For those of you watching on video,

it's a little weird to stare at

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a wood background for 45 seconds

and listen to some ghostly voice.

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Talk to you for an intro,

but we'll figure that out.

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I'm moving in the middle of houses.

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So it is what it is, but excited to

be here for a second glamping show.

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Second week episode focused on

glamping for MC Fireside Chats.

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So we have all our recurring

guests here for the week.

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We've got Zach from Clockwork.

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Go around and introduce

everybody in a second.

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Todd Winperi is back for

us for his second week.

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Angèle Miller is here.

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Chris Jube and Alessandro's on time.

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Thanks for joining us.

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I'm just kidding.

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It was the time zone change.

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I don't know why we do that.

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Anyway.

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Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, it

was like one off actually, because

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tonight is back at normal time.

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Brian Searl: Yeah, we shouldn't like

even have a time zone, but that's a whole

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nother debate for probably a different

show that's not focused on glamping.

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But and then super excited to welcome

Gene Ottoman and Jeremy, who are

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going to talk to us as special guests

about some of the cool things they do.

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So why don't we go around, just start

with the recurring guests briefly.

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And Zach, you want to start?

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Tell us a little bit about what you do.

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Zach Stoltenberg: I'm Zach Stoltberg.

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I'm the director of outdoor

hospitality for Clockwork.

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We're a multidisciplinary architecture

firm based in Kansas City.

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We specialize in helping people build and

permit and design great glamping resorts.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Thanks, as always, for being here.

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Todd?

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Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, hi.

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I'm Todd Wynne-Parry.

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I'm with Horwath HTL.

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I head up the Outdoor Hospitality

Advisory Services for the

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company here in North America and

globally, at the end of the day.

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Our work ends up being

primarily with site owners.

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We're running feasibility studies, market

studies, design planning for projects

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and we work with investors and we work

with the brands providing strategic

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assistance on how to grow their brands.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Thanks for being here, Todd.

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Appreciate it.

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Chris.

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Chris Jeub: Hey, I'm Chris Jeub.

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I'm an owner operator here

in Monument, Colorado.

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It's a busy time right now.

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I'm actually at a

homeschool co op playing Mr.

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Mom.

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My wife is sick at home right now, but I

run two properties with 12 units on it.

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I'm in the middle of review

right now with the property.

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which is for both the properties

and one of the addendum and one of

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the special use permit and i am also

launching a class called easy entry

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to a glamping business which is

available at my website at glampingguy.

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com so i've got a lot going on

but never boring moment as a

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glamping operator here in colorado

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Brian Searl: free for everybody

who watches the show right

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chris you did say that

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Chris Jeub: yeah actually you know what

brian let me give you a coupon code

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glamping guy just put in glamping guy

it's a coupon code because i really do

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want People who are interested in glamping

want to enter into this wonderful market.

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They can get in, otherwise Send me 37 and

you can actually watch the course too.

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All

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Brian Searl: right, we're going

to hold you to that, Zach.

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You got to remember that.

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Zach Stoltenberg: I've

got my own referral code.

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Brian Searl: Angele.

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Angele Miller: Hi everyone so my

name is Angele Miller and I'm co

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founder of Creepside R& R Glamping.

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We are an Atlantic Canada Glamping Resort

with the sun coming out now and the snow

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mounting, which is very nice for us.

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And we have five geodesic domes.

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We have two mirror cabins

and we're opening up a luxury

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fishing boat accommodation.

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So we're very big on the

unique accommodation.

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We have Nordic Spa Yoga Meditation Center.

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We're also franchising.

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Our resort.

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We're starting to open some in the

United States as well, and hopefully

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across Canada and internationally.

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And I'm happy to be here

with everyone today.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Welcome.

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Thank you for being here as always.

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Alessandra.

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Yes, I'm

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Alessandro van de Loo:

Alessandra van der Lohe.

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I'm based in the Netherlands but with

our company, our family business, we

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operate in total nine camping resorts

in Italy and in the Netherlands.

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And we started in 2018.

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So we are a relative.

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Young brands and looking forward

to to grow in the next years.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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Thank you for being here.

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Gene Eidelman from co founder

of Azure Printed Homes.

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Gene Eidelman: Hi everybody.

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Yeah.

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I Azure Printed Homes is a 3D printing

structures from using recycled plastic.

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And We started manufacturing

and shipping last year, and our

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clients are glamping resorts.

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We're really looking forward

to discuss this today.

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Awesome,

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Brian Searl: yeah.

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Yeah, I'm definitely

glad to hear you here.

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We're going to give you a lot more time

to talk about your company, to be clear,

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and then I'll geek out, probably, with you

a little bit on 3D printing and all that.

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And then last, but certainly

not least, Jeremy Budge.

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Is it Budge?

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From Backland.

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Jeremy Budge: Yeah.

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So I'm a owner, founder, CEO of

Backland, and we are a luxury eco

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resort in Northern Arizona, just about

an hour South of the Grand Canyon.

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And we've built our first space so far.

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We've been open about,

about a year and a half.

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So we have 10 custom built custom

designed tents that I've, that I

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designed that on our site, as well

as a, And we're on about 160 acres of

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private land, but we're surrounded by

a national forest, so a big open area.

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Big open meadows and ponds and forests

on our site and get a lot of amenities

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and activities that we're doing as well.

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Yeah, that's that's the nutshell.

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Brian Searl: Awesome.

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I'm excited to dive in more with you,

Jeremy, before we get to, and we'll start

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with Jeremy just real quick in a second.

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Is there anything from our recurring guest

perspective that has happened in the last

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month or so that you feel like we should

be talking about from a glamping industry

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or anything perspective that you guys

want to bring up and briefly discuss?

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Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, I think the last

time we had a chat briefly about the

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Hilton allowing their Hilton Honors guests

to book at AutoCamp, which was a big

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thing for our industry big recognition.

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And since that time, another thing

happened, which is a little bit

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off center, but it's important,

which is the Hilton then bought

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the graduate brand of hotels, which

are located in US college campuses.

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And the reason that's significant is

because prior to the pandemic, there

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were a lot of brands that were bought and

sold and by the major companies mainly.

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But it really, that sort of

acquiring of brands went pretty

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quiet over the last few years.

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And I think It's significant because there

are a number of brands that are trying to

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scale in our sector and the evidence of

value of brands in hospitality had been a

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little bit a couple of years old and what

people were paying on an earnings basis.

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And so the graduate acquisition

was really just of the brand

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and the franchise rights.

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So it didn't include

any Bricks and Mortar.

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It didn't include any

management contracts.

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It was literally just the franchise

rights, franchise fee flow, and the

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ability to grow that brand moving forward.

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At 250 million For just a small

percentage of rooms revenue.

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It's a lot of money.

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And and I think it's it bodes

well for brands and brand scaling.

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So I just wanted to build on from

the Hilton Auto Camp acquisition or

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not acquisition, but relationship

to then that acquisition of a I

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think there's only 12 or 13 of them.

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So it's really important and

it's good for our industry.

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Brian Searl: So how do you think

that's going to lead into glamping?

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Like how do you think

that's going to tie in?

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Todd Wynne-Parry: I think that the

concept of a a brand putting together

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five, 10, 15 product outlets.

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And then getting paid anywhere from 12 to

20 times earnings on just the franchise

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fees, forget the manager fees, just the

franchise fees it bodes well for it means

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that the brands that are scaling right now

that some very much want to get purchased

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at some point, it, it points in a

positive direction that could take place.

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Yeah, I think that's the big telltale.

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Jeremy Budge: How much do you know

about the AutoCamp Hilton partnership?

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Is that just a marketing partnership?

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Todd Wynne-Parry: From my

understanding, it is just

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opening up the AutoCamp website.

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Product line to Hilton honors guest

loyalty, guest members to book

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directly, probably either earn or

use their loyalty points as well.

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Jeremy Budge: And that Hilton's taking

a commission on sales basically.

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And that's the,

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Todd Wynne-Parry: If it's booked through

there, I'm sure they'll take a clip.

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They'll clip something on the way through.

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Of course.

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Jeremy Budge: Yeah.

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I heard is it under canvas also

through the small laundry hotels is

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on the Hyatt platform as well now.

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Todd Wynne-Parry: I heard

something like that, but I'm

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not, I've not confirmed that.

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Brian Searl: It makes sense.

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It's Hilton with SLS now, right?

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It was Hyatt, and now it's Hilton?

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No, that's too different.

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Todd Wynne-Parry: With SLS.

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With

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Brian Searl: SLS, with

a small luxury hotel.

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I

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Todd Wynne-Parry: thought.

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Oh, small luxury hotels.

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SLH.

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Brian Searl: SLH.

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Sorry.

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I apologize.

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Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah.

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Brian Searl: But they

did switch flags, right?

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They were with Hyatt and

then they're with Hilton.

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So that's what I think the question was.

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Is Under Canvas was part of

them now or not part of them,

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but affiliated with them?

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Could be.

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Todd Wynne-Parry: I'm not sure.

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SLS is, or SLH, Small Luxury

Hotels and Preferred Hotels.

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These are opt in group marketing.

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Membership things that, that usually

work pan brand, so they, there could

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be, they could be, you could be a

small OG hotel of a number of brands,

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or it could be completely independent.

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Sometimes there's both.

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Brian Searl: Yeah, I don't want

to spend too much time on it.

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I was just curious from like it's still

very interesting as we watch the growth

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of the industry and in North America,

specifically with glamping and how it

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gets closer and closer to the hotels.

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So just it'll be very interesting

to see how that continues to evolve.

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So let's go to Jeremy.

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So give us I know you give us a primary

brief intro, but talk to us a little bit

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about how did you get into the business?

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Like all the things you could

do including put your microphone

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in the middle of your shot.

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Like I just did things like that.

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How did you end up operating

a resort in Arizona?

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Jeremy Budge: So I've been in the industry

now for a while, about nine years before.

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Before this, I was with Under Canvas.

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I was in charge of development

for Under Canvas and developed

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five of their locations.

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And even before that, I, in my undergrad

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I was in a, I did a construction

management degree and I was in a

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real estate development course.

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And at that time, I don't think there was

really any big glamping players but We

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had to do a final project, and I did a

project on a, basically a glamping resort.

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I didn't even know to call it that at

that point and everybody was what in the

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heck are you, what are you thinking about?

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And but, so that kind of basic idea

has been in my head for a while,

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and then I was able to join up with

Under Canvas, and then recently we've

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been open, like I said, for about a

year and a half and, in development

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for a couple of years before that.

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So this latest venture, Backland,

is one I've done on my own and

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yeah, it's just a so culmination

of a lot of ideas and dreams and I,

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and things I thought could be done

differently and better in certain ways.

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So yeah.

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Brian Searl: So two part question,

and sorry for all the birds who are

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trying to make a guest appearance

apparently on my new house.

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I wish that we had one guy on here on

the Campground RV show who's a bird

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crazy enthusiast, and he was calling

out who the birds were chirping on

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behind Scott Knapp on one of the shows.

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Anyway so two questions,

two part, I think.

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Number one is, what do you think you're

doing or you want to do differently at

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your resort that kind of sets you apart

from everything else that you've seen?

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And then two, How do you think your

time with UnderCanvas impacted that,

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or changed what you may have done

differently prior to that knowledge

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that you gained through UnderCanvas?

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Jeremy Budge: So one thing, yeah, one

thing that's really different about our

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site we have these tents that we're using,

they're unique tents that I've designed

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they, We're designed specifically for this

site, partly in response to a lot of the

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regulatory requirements that we had, but

also in response to a lot of the problems

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I've seen in the standard glamping model.

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Our tents are they're

permanent structures.

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They're fully code compliant energy

code compliant fully insulated.

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And so I think, one, one thing that's

tough in a glamping situation, a lot

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of times is You're trying to provide a

luxury experience but you're, a lot of

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times you're still in just a, a thin

walled canvas tent and heating and

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cooling something that's not, has, zero

insulation values, it's not the most

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environmentally friendly thing to do

in the first place but it's also it's

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hard to make that really comfortable

a lot of times and so finding a way to

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actually have a fully insulated tent

has been, a game changer, I think.

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And then also The design of the tent,

the tent's in full tension all the time,

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so there's no loose, flappy things going

on it's a lot of, I've slept in a lot

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of, typical safari tent type of tents,

and slept maybe half the time, but, the

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wind, when the wind blows, everything's

shaking around, and it's loud and this

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is a windy site, and sometimes and having

everything fully tensioned and our tents

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can handle 115, are engineered for 115

mile an hour winds and 60 pounds per

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snow, per square foot snow loads which

are the code requirements in this area.

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So our tents stay up year round and

they handle all the weather and all

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the wind And then, one thing that's

bummer about the standard kind of

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canvas tent is that at night when you

zip it all up, you really can't see the

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where you are, you're the, there's no

glass windows or anything like that.

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And so we, we put it a lot of glass

into our, in our units, they're, the

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whole front of our tent is a 16 foot

wide panoramic window sliding door.

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And then we have, Also, 16 foot

wide skylights above the beds, and

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so you can lay in bed at night and,

watch for shooting stars and but

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also be comfortable in a campfire.

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Brian Searl: I want you to answer

the under canvas thing in a second,

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but Zach, I'm just curious if you

have any thoughts on the different

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architecture things that he's describing.

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Also, if loose, flappy things is

a term, like mute, and then you

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can't hear this like crazy botanical

garden that's going on behind me.

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The dog is racing back and

forth chasing the birds and

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Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah, Jeremy

is actually a client of ours.

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We helped him get the permits

and the construction drawings

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for his base camp structure.

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And so I've been to his

property, I've seen his tents.

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He's being very humble

about really just the.

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Accomplishment that represents to have

a year round glamping operation in the

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region and the jurisdiction he's in.

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is unheard of.

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And I think he will probably, he I know

he's the first and he will probably be the

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last to ever accomplish what he's done.

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So it, it is pretty incredible.

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But I think, he highlights

something that's really important

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that guest experience peace

balanced with the business side.

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He's created these custom units

that are still a tent and create

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that really unique guest experience

and all these opportunities to,

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look up in bed and see the stars.

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But doing it from a business perspective,

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Brian Searl: all right, Jeremy.

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So back to your.

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Under Canvas question, that

second part that I asked you.

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So of the time that you spent with Under

Canvas, obviously you learned a lot, you

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developed a couple resorts, like you said.

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Are there things that you took away from

that you brought into your own resorts?

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Or didn't bring in, perhaps?

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Jeremy Budge: Yeah, just general, a

lot of those, a lot of the challenges

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I was mentioning with tense, were

challenges that we had at UnderCanvas

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with, the standard Canvas tense,

and so I think solving for some

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of those issues was a big thing.

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I think really what I, I learned

at UnderCanvas and tried to.

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Even take to a kind of the next level with

this with Backland is I think the most

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important thing that we're trying to do

is create these meaningful and memorable

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experiences for people in nature that

they can share with people they care

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about most, and you if you ask people

what they remember throughout their

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life, it's most of your life you forget.

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And it's these peak moments.

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There's a book I was reading recently

by Chip and Dan Heath, it's called The

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Power of Moments, and it's being able

to take something he said the moments

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that we really remember are ones that

there's some kind of components that

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he's defined, but it's elevating, it's

an elevating experience, and also it's

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an experience that brings connection

And so taking something that's,

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camping, and this is common to a lot of

glamping resorts, but taking something

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that's, normal camping and making it

something that's really special is a

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really elevating kind of experience.

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And then also you're giving people, we

don't do Wi Fi in our tents on purpose,

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and we try to get people to unplug and

just connect with each other and with

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nature, and and, that was something we

also didn't do it under Canvas, but, we

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do, you talk to some people who are in

this kind of, here in this space, your

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RV park space, and they say, Wi Fi is

like water, it's it's something that

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you can't live without, and we get an

occasional rare comment about, I wish

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there was Wi Fi in the tents, but most

people, they're playing board games

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with their families, they're having

they're actually talking to each other,

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their kids aren't on the screens, the

whole time, and And it's really just

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getting people back to that, creating

these wonderful, memorable experiences.

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And at Backland we've tried to, not

just be a place to sleep as well, but

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also have, some more fun amenities and

stuff that create those moments as well.

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We have telescopes that we bring out

at night and do stargazing and, look

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at planets and Saturn's rings and.

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We have nature trails, we have a spa tent

as well that we do massages in, we have

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fire pit with s'mores, we have bird, we

have binoculars that we let people use

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for bird watching, and we have a nature

scavenger hunt and then we just do a lot

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of little things like, we even have little

picture frame that is in the tent that

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when they walk in and there's a little

card in it that says, Come by, come stop

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by the lobby and we'll we have this, one

of those Polaroid cameras, basically,

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and we'll take a little family picture

with them, and then they get to take

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that frame home, and they see that on

their mantle, and it's just a reminder

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of this fun experience, this memorable

experience that they've had, and so I

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think it's just, yeah that's the kind

of the main Takeaways, from being in the

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industry for a long time is really making

sure that you're creating this elevated

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and memorable experience for people.

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That's a full experience and

not just a place to sleep.

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Brian Searl: Yeah, for sure, and that ends

up, I think, making all the difference.

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It's just some of those unique things

that aren't necessarily huge changes.

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Let's go on to Gene real quick.

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Gene talking about unique experiences.

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3D printed homes.

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Sure.

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I know you gave us the intro, but

for those of us who want to know more

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like me and who are geeks and for

everybody else who wants to know more

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too, tell us about your your company.

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Gene Eidelman: Sure.

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Thank you, Brian.

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Yeah, we are general contractors and

started the company five years ago.

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And the goal was to find ways to

build a faster, less expensive and

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with positive environmental impact.

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We looked at 3D printing, saw a lot

of 3D printing with cement, which

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is not good for the environment.

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So we asked ourselves the question,

why not do it with recycled plastic?

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And so we developed technology

to be able to do that.

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I printed our first prototype two years

ago, started manufacturing and shipping

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last May, and in terms of significant

things happening just in the last months,

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we moved into a state of the art facility

Here in Los Angeles, 20, 000 square

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feet, we can make three units a day.

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And secondly, we got approved by the state

of Colorado to bring a facility to Denver

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within the next nine months where we will

be manufacturing in a second location.

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But demand's been pretty incredible.

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Our units are, so I'm

sitting in one little studio.

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And it's made from equivalent

of 100, 000 empty water bottles.

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So it's sustainable, it's a really

example of a circular economy.

394

We save the landfills and oceans from

all the plastic that we generate.

395

And when this unit can

be easily relocated.

396

This one is actually sitting

on wheels so it can be moved.

397

And when it comes to an end of its

useful life, 20, 30, 40 years from

398

now, it can be recycled into something.

399

The units are very well insulated.

400

We are standard insulation of R30, but

we have some customers in Canada who

401

are looking for R49 and we can do that.

402

They can sustain up to

150 miles an hour winds.

403

And our first client so it was really

intended for backyard studios and

404

ADUs or tiny homes, but the first

client, it was a glamping resort.

405

So we worked with Three Bones and Big Sur,

beautiful property on the Pacific Ocean.

406

And when the owner saw an image of

our first unit on Facebook, he jumped

407

on his Harley and drove down to our

factory and wanted to make sure the

408

first unit goes in his development.

409

And so he bought a unit

that's 180 square feet.

410

With all the options, it was about 60,

000 and he rents it for 750 a night,

411

so a real nice return on investment.

412

And it just fits in that development,

it's totally off grid, because

413

the unit is so well insulated with

solar panels, it maintains beautiful

414

temperature inside all seasons.

415

Big Sur had first hurricane.

416

Remember, California has lots of other

natural disasters, like wildfires

417

and earthquakes, but no hurricanes.

418

We had our first hurricane

winds this January.

419

And it was stood so much better

than some of the other structures

420

they have at the resort.

421

So we are really excited to

participate in the glamping industry.

422

We as I mentioned in my introduction,

we're working with the developer

423

to have 25 of our units in January.

424

Joshua Tree.

425

We have a development in San

Diego, we install the three units

426

are getting 20 more or 21 more.

427

All in all have a lot of interest

from around the US and globally.

428

Yeah lots of potential.

429

We, the beauty of our units, we can

really customize 'em, but 3D printing

430

allows to do is can customize.

431

So we're gonna have units

with with skylights.

432

We can have units, different colors.

433

You know how different people want

to have different experience in

434

the resort, but we are able to be a

sole supplier and create different

435

experiences with some of our elements.

436

And secondly, we're

very fast and expensive.

437

Yeah.

438

Brian Searl: We'll talk a little

bit about more about that, right?

439

And I'd love to have all

my recurring guests here.

440

Please pop in and ask whatever you

want so that I can talk less again.

441

But my initial opening question to you is

let's back up a little bit for the people

442

who are watching this show who are maybe.

443

Not at all, or a little bit familiar

with the concept of 3D printing, how

444

it works, how you can take plastic

bottles and make a building, the

445

creativity and flexibility you have

with it, and it will have in the future.

446

I think it would be interesting to just

talk about how that works on a base level,

447

because that's exciting to me, but I'm

also excited to get to the point where

448

like Zach can generate an AI image thing

on his thing and just be like, print.

449

Gene Eidelman: Literally, It is not that

automatic, but it's highly automated.

450

Not yet, but it might

451

Brian Searl: be in 20 years.

452

Gene Eidelman: Yeah.

453

We use a combination of

recycled plastic and fiberglass.

454

Fiberglass is what adds rigidity to

our products, so we give a minimum

455

10 year warranty on the product.

456

In terms of designs, if you go

to our website, we have four

457

different designs on our website.

458

It's www.

459

AzurePrintHomes.

460

com.

461

And literally somebody could order a unit

tomorrow and the smaller unit without

462

a bathroom can be done in five days.

463

The unit was bathroom, kitchen, shower,

can be done in three to four weeks.

464

We just had an order yesterday from Texas

and we'll deliver the unit on April 30th.

465

The incredible speed,

the ability to customize.

466

So while we have the four

different designs on our website

467

color, interior, exterior,

cabinets appliances, you name it.

468

They are highly aligning fixtures.

469

You really can have something

that's very unique to you.

470

And it totally, we make it in the factory,

so we totally finish it in the factory.

471

When it arrives to the site, if it has

foundations, we just need to attach it

472

to the foundation, and we can also give

customers Our foundation designs or if

473

it's or if it can be, or it can arrive

on wheels and then it just be a tie down

474

like an RV or camping ground environment.

475

Brian Searl: So I guess what I would love

to have you do, if you have the brief

476

knowledge for, is just for the people

who have no idea how 3D printing works.

477

If I didn't know how 3D printing works.

478

I would imagine you like chucking

plastic bottles into a thing and

479

like it oozing, I don't know, right?

480

Like for somebody who has no clue

or no concept of how this works, I

481

think it's important for them to get

a base understanding of the power

482

and possibilities of this technology.

483

Gene Eidelman: Yeah very good question.

484

I I've been We've emerged in

this for the last five years.

485

That's

486

Brian Searl: the same thing with me.

487

That's why I'm pushing you, right?

488

Like I know all about it, right?

489

But sometimes we forget that this doesn't

come across somebody's desk and they

490

don't realize like there's already a

sub that's been printed with 3D printing

491

and it's already pretty advanced.

492

Gene Eidelman: In terms of material,

so don't go directly to, we don't

493

recover plastic bottles, but we

work with four different suppliers.

494

We give them the formulation of what we

need, and they provide to us pellets.

495

It comes in small pellets like

this that has all the ingredients.

496

It has a recycled plastic,

fiberglass, UV stabilizer, all

497

of the material in these pellets.

498

The pellets go in a big bin,

and they're attached to a to an

499

instrument that's called an extruder.

500

Extruder is a piece of

equipment that basically takes

501

these pellets and melts them.

502

And we use architectural software

to design the unit itself so

503

that basically the extruder is

attached to a large robotic arm,

504

like a large industrial robot.

505

You probably see pictures of them,

videos of them on a lot of plants.

506

And the robotic arm moves the extruder

around and it melts layer by layer.

507

So we print layer by layer.

508

It takes under 24 hours to

build the module, to build

509

the exterior of the building.

510

We print the roof, two side walls, and

the floor so that happens in one day.

511

And then we create, we leave channels,

we leave areas inside the structure

512

to put electric, plumbing, water.

513

And depending on the size of the unit and

what kind of features it has, Then in our

514

factory, we finish it with a bathroom,

kitchen, shower a living area and that's

515

done in kind of more of a traditional way,

the way you think of homes are finished.

516

But what takes most of the time and most

of the expense is build the structure.

517

And so we use a totally

automated process for that.

518

So there is no lumber, there is

no roofing, there is no metal,

519

there is no waterproofing.

520

The unit is totally watertight

because it's down printed in one go.

521

So it's a, it's really the

future of construction.

522

We have a affordability crisis in the

world because it's so expensive to build.

523

And technology really

has not moved very much.

524

And then if you, again, compare

construction industry to auto industry.

525

A hundred years ago, we,

people used to ride the horse.

526

And now, of course, we

have electric vehicles.

527

With construction, 100 years ago, there

was a carpenter with a hammer and a

528

nail, and it's still done the same way.

529

That's why it takes so, it's

so expensive and takes so long.

530

The 3D printing technology in

construction is really way overdue, and

531

I really believe that it's the future.

532

And really, Glamping Industries

is a perfect customer for us.

533

Because we can show off

our off grid capabilities,

534

ability to do something fast.

535

And I love working with

entrepreneurs in glamping industry.

536

People who have an idea and

want to try to implement it.

537

But also work with

consultants and architects.

538

Many times people come to us, just

seeing some of our images on the

539

website, but really don't know

how to go about implementing it.

540

Getting all the permits and our

facilities are fully licensed and then

541

we met the, being as a contractor to get

into this business, first thing we're

542

worried about, how are people going to

get permits so we can help folks, so

543

it's mainly through referral industry

to refer them to either architects who

544

work in space or consultants who can

help them with I'm an expert on the

545

industry, but I really can envision.

546

I've built thousands of units in

my development career and can help

547

people envision and bring to reality

something that will be beautiful

548

looking, sustainable, and sustainable.

549

Brian Searl: And that's one of the

things that interests me, right?

550

I agree with you.

551

I think it's the future

of construction for sure.

552

But I'm interested in all the

people we have here, right?

553

Angel, Alessandro, Chris, Zach.

554

I know I spoke for Zach, right?

555

But come on, Zach, that

would be cool, right?

556

I've got a question.

557

Yeah, go ahead.

558

Zach Stoltenberg: One thing that I think

is What is very unique about both of

559

our guests today is that they have a

unique one off design unit, something

560

that had never been done before,

something that's new to the industry.

561

I'm glad that Gene mentioned

how the glamping industry

562

is really helping launch.

563

A lot of products that may end up finding

their way into, other non hospitality

564

related industries, as we see the modular

bathroom pods and kitchen pods and,

565

that's funding a lot of the development

for affordable housing having some of

566

these units that, like Gene said, we can

produce one of these in 5 days, right?

567

We can cut the time.

568

I the glamping industry is a

stepping stone, I think, to much

569

larger markets much deeper pockets.

570

But it's cool that, our industry

is starting to fuel some of that.

571

And so while listening to, everything

that was shared, the question that

572

I had, anytime you do something new,

anytime you do something different

573

or, you're on the cutting edge, you're

going to bleed a little bit, right?

574

So I want to hear from both Jeremy and

Gene, as you were going through this

575

process of designing something that's

a, a first of its kind Jeremy with your

576

tents and Gene with your 3D printed units.

577

Talk about some of the challenges

with building code, with permits,

578

with, a process that, like Gene

said, really has remained largely

579

unchanged, for over 100 years.

580

And sometimes the rigidity of regulations.

581

And codes don't always allow

for new creative ideas.

582

So maybe talk a little bit about

maybe something you had to overcome

583

or some problem that you solved

in designing your units to, to try

584

to, meet a somewhat antiquated,

585

Gene Eidelman: I'll be more than

happy to address this so there is such

586

a push for more affordable housing

that manufactured housing industry,

587

I think, has been one of the leaders.

588

And so we worked with ICC, International

Construction Coal Organization.

589

While it's international in the

name, it's really primarily in the U.

590

S.

591

It helps.

592

State regulators around the country

adopt new construction codes.

593

So ICC has a process of how

to look at new materials.

594

And even before, I mentioned

we've been at this almost 5 years,

595

we've been manufacturing 2 years.

596

Before we made our first

unit, we connected with ICC.

597

And they developed acceptance criteria.

598

They basically created a criteria

that they vetted with building

599

officials around the country.

600

of what our product should have.

601

So that was a huge kind of push before

we could make a first product, but

602

now we're working together with ICC

to develop criteria of what what are

603

the qualities of this product from

rigidity, from all of the and we looked

604

at four Seismic, high winds, snow loads,

what do we need to maintain in order

605

for this to be scalable around the U.

606

S.?

607

Globally, our organization

So have you done

608

Go ahead.

609

Zach Stoltenberg: Gene, have you done

laboratory testing on your units?

610

Have you sent that to a

university or lab test and no,

611

Gene Eidelman: ICC has their

own laboratories, right?

612

Yeah.

613

No we've done both computer simulated

designs before we printed the first unit.

614

And then once we went to print, there

is a very, there is a way to, to do

615

during 2000 hours to do a 20 year.

616

Testing regime.

617

So you can put your materials through

2, 000 hours of lab testing, and it'll

618

give you an idea of how it'll, how

the material will will perform in 20

619

years and then internationally, UL

has a similar, a little bit different

620

process, but UL has labs here in the U.

621

S., in Canada, in England.

622

And that's going to be our next stage.

623

We will go through

similar testing with UL.

624

They look at some different

criteria, but they also, they now

625

have a standard for 3D printing.

626

It was not, yeah, lots of people

wonder whether we just had the idea

627

and now have to prove ourselves.

628

There is now some criteria

that's been established for how

629

for new material to be tested.

630

And And we're on the way.

631

Yeah, I think what helped us a lot was

the fact that we're construction, that

632

we're, our background is in construction.

633

So we thought of how does someone

permit this before we even

634

started designing our first unit.

635

Zach Stoltenberg: Jeremy,

636

Jeremy Budge: same question.

637

I guess before I answer that, I've

got a follow up question for Gene

638

there, but we did a, we did our

restaurant kitchen was a modular unit.

639

And.

640

Getting that permitted was

no walk in the park either.

641

And one of the things that for Arizona,

I know, is that it had to be built

642

in a facility that was licensed as

a modular manufacturer in Arizona.

643

It didn't have to be built in Arizona,

but it had to be licensed in Arizona.

644

Are you, do you see that

with every state, or is that?

645

Arizona specific thing or?

646

Gene Eidelman: No, so there are 20 states.

647

Arizona, unfortunately, is not one of

them that have a process that allows

648

for third party approval of plans and

third party inspection in the West.

649

It's only California, but as you

spread this 20 states spread around

650

the Sunbelt, so Texas, Florida,

Carolinas, Georgia, California.

651

And then there are a number of states in

the Midwest where kind of manufactured

652

housing started, so Indiana, Illinois,

Ohio, Michigan allows us, and even

653

in the Northeast, like Massachusetts.

654

So there are 20 states that

follow a similar regime.

655

They allow third party inspection

agency to approve the plans and then

656

third party approval agency to come

to our factory and approve the unit.

657

So we just shipped the

unit to Palm Springs.

658

It left with a permit.

659

So the only thing that local authorities

will need to do, local inspection agency

660

will still need to approve the permit.

661

Foundation Utilities, but the

structure itself is fully permanent.

662

In a state like Arizona, there is a

process where we're in that process now.

663

So we've applied with Arizona to get

approval and once we are approved, we will

664

have the ability to do the same thing.

665

So a number of other states are moving.

666

I mentioned that we were very

excited to be selected by Colorado

667

to establish a facility there.

668

The state is providing us almost

4 million of low interest funding.

669

For And one of the agencies that was

around the table during the approval

670

process was the agency that said we're

interested in moving in the same direction

671

to accelerate permitting to allow third

party inspectors and approval agencies.

672

Utah just passed the law just

last week that makes it simpler

673

to do manufactured housing.

674

Yeah Jeremy, good question and

Arizona needs, was the growth it has.

675

Probably needs to change the regulation

a little bit and it's not like

676

they're not gonna be the first one.

677

There are 20 other states.

678

And if anybody on this podcast would

like me to email you the states that

679

have different reg regulatory approvals,

I'll be more than happy to do.

680

Great.

681

Brian Searl: I think

it's back to you, Jeremy.

682

Zach's question.

683

Jeremy Budge: Yeah.

684

So the question is

building something unique.

685

How do we navigate the

permitting challenges for that?

686

Yeah, that is something that's

very different than just going

687

and building a standard product.

688

And having built built resorts

all over the country, with Under

689

Campus before this as well.

690

The trickiest thing is that no,

there's no one answer that fits For

691

every jurisdiction, the hurdles you

have to jump through in one place are

692

different than the hurdles you have

to jump through in another place.

693

And those hurdles seem to be

getting more and more difficult.

694

When I first started going into counties

and jurisdictions to, for Under Canvas

695

and telling them, we want to build

this thing called a Glamping Resort.

696

And they're like, what is that?

697

And you'd have to explain

the whole thing to them.

698

And now You walk in and they're like,

okay you're the 10th person today

699

that's asking me that same question.

700

And so they're definitely writing a lot

more rules and regulations and some of

701

that's positive and some of it makes it

harder for, depending on where you are.

702

But, so yeah for this particular

site, we had a lot of unique And

703

I could probably talk for two

hours about all the little things.

704

I'm not sure that would be but yeah, I

think maybe hit some of the highlights.

705

I

706

Zach Stoltenberg: know, your

wind load is exceptionally

707

high that had an influence on.

708

The design of your units.

709

The need for a very high R value, you're

in a high desert in Arizona, so summers

710

are really hot when it's really cold.

711

Jeremy Budge: Yep.

712

Yeah.

713

And I, and then it's everything

from, how you make that, that

714

that wall system fit the code.

715

A lot of glamping resorts

are not getting, permanent.

716

They're not being permitted as

permanent structures like we are,

717

and so they don't have to deal with

this these kind of questions, for

718

us, we had to meet the R values that

any permanent building would have to

719

meet in a tent, and that's a really

tricky thing to figure out how to do.

720

We were able to do it with a mixture of,

we have an outer layer of our, waterproof

721

PVC membrane that's on the outside.

722

But then, from there, it

goes through spray foam.

723

or a Tyvek in a spray foam and then a,

a fire, spray foam has to be fireproofed

724

and so there's a fireproofing coating

and then there's Even the canvas that

725

we use on the inside we had to send out

for testing to make sure it was ASTM

726

E84 Class A fabric for, flame spread and

smoke development, all of that, and so

727

it's these little things that, if you

think I'm just going to go throw up a

728

tent and it's going to be easy, it's not,

it's there's a lot of things you got to

729

figure out and that's just, one of, One

of the things, planning and zoning and

730

fitting into people, the development plan

for communities is also something that

731

is a really important thing to consider.

732

I think probably half of the projects

that I've looked at that we put

733

under contract, probably end up.

734

Falling falling out of, we

probably end up pulling the plug on

735

because of, just issues like that.

736

And so yeah, it's a, it's

different everywhere you go.

737

And if I chime in on this,

738

Gene Eidelman: I just want

to be able to jump in.

739

Yeah I agree that doing one

off would be very difficult.

740

So I think that for folks

who want to get some scale.

741

Working with manufactured housing

providers probably the way to do.

742

Zach Stoltenberg: Yeah,

to follow up on that, too.

743

And it plays to just what Gene said.

744

Can you guys talk about

some of the costs for that?

745

Jeremy, you mentioned sending

in fabric to get it tested.

746

I'm guessing there's an

expense with having that done.

747

The ICC testing and things,

there's an expense with that.

748

And when you're building one or two

or even 10 units, it's difficult

749

to justify some of those expenses.

750

When you're scaling and you're

working with a affordable housing

751

developer that wants to put 2, 000

units out over the next year, then

752

it's easier to justify a 50, 000, test

or something in order to prove that.

753

What you're, what you've built to save.

754

Gene Eidelman: Yeah.

755

No, testing was a quarter million dollars.

756

So yeah, you couldn't do it if you

were just saying, we're going to

757

advertise it over a small development.

758

We raised the 5 million in the last

last year and just launch our new

759

campaign to raise another 5 million.

760

to basically to be able to bring

it to scale, do additional testing.

761

And in terms of the cost,

it's very reasonable.

762

Again we are generally

around 200 per square foot.

763

And that's like getting a totally

completed unit, 200 to 220.

764

We find that in the glamping

industry, we're very competitive.

765

And this is producing out of our

California factory as time goes

766

on, we will, our plan is within the

next two years to have a factory

767

in every time zone in the U.

768

S.

769

Canada in a budget that's going to be

announced just next week, is going to

770

put half a billion dollars to incentivize

developers manufacturers like us.

771

to open facilities in Canada.

772

It has a tremendous housing shortage.

773

I'm flying to Asia in three weeks

to speak at an international

774

conference in Hong Kong.

775

So there is global interest.

776

There is a global need.

777

And and it just, working with glamping

developers is I feel like every client we

778

get has a Their own entrepreneurial story.

779

I just love this.

780

I'm myself from Ukraine.

781

And I've been around the world.

782

So I love hearing the stories and

coming out with something that will work

783

uniquely for a particular development.

784

Brian Searl: Okay, so we only

have 10 minutes left, but

785

Gene Eidelman: I want to no,

786

Brian Searl: it's okay.

787

I just want to make sure

everybody has a chance here.

788

So I know, I think Chris

wanted to ask a question.

789

And then I want to, I would love to get,

just after Chris talks, I'd love to get

790

Angèle's thoughts on, from a franchise

perspective, do things like 3D printing

791

and this technology and unique designs.

792

Make sense for you as you continue

to expand your operations.

793

Todd, I'm very curious from a hotel

perspective, does this help us

794

differentiate the industry more?

795

Is this something that gets

hotels more into glamping?

796

And then Alessandro, just from a European

perspective, is this something you

797

could see using at your properties?

798

Go ahead, Chris.

799

Chris Jeub: Yeah, I was just going to

say, I was just going to comment, this is

800

a very kind of a fascinating discussion.

801

It doesn't surprise me that glamping is

housing some of your structures, Gene,

802

because we're in just a creative field.

803

And with creativity, that creativity

just upsets everybody in zoning

804

and building, building departments.

805

Zach, we have a good laugh because

our regional building department

806

was telling us to put sprinklers

in our tents for a while.

807

So we sat down with the guys and pulled

the three ring binders out and the ICC

808

regulations and tried to figure it out.

809

Crack the code, you might say.

810

So glamping operators are tasked with

cracking the code and creating these

811

creative structures and setting them

in place so that people can enjoy it.

812

So that was just my comment I

find this a fascinating discussion

813

that, on that on that realm.

814

Brian Searl: Yeah, it's way more

complicated than getting my camera

815

to work and not be blinding right

behind me, wants to go first?

816

Todd, Angèle, alessandro?

817

Angele Miller: I can go.

818

So for me I think what you're

doing Jean it's fantastic.

819

And I think the glamping industry, for me,

especially with the franchise model, is

820

we want to create consistency and really

also elevate the local culture and design.

821

I think what would also be, like, very

interesting with what you're doing.

822

With the 3D modeling is as in the glamping

industry, everybody has different types of

823

One, in terms of, either being on a slope

or not on a slope or flat or by a river or

824

by a mountain, and for us in franchising

also is to find those structures

825

that are going to be able to fit and

accommodate all these different climates

826

and regions in the types of consistency.

827

So with the tree design, do you find my

question to you is that it would help.

828

Establish the ability to do that and

be very consistent because you can

829

custom a little bit more than perhaps

other manufacturers in glamping.

830

Gene Eidelman: Yeah, no good questions.

831

We really can, by definition, we can

customize the designs in terms of the

832

how different units for, how units are

designed for different climates it's very

833

tough to do one off, but if somebody wants

to develop a unique design for 20, 30

834

units, now that, that becomes much easier.

835

But even in the situation where

somebody only wants to order a few

836

units, we offer enough options.

837

On our website where somebody can

really develop something that looks

838

very unique or wants to order a

number of the units and they can have

839

different looks and feels about them

so that people have a little bit of

840

a different experience staying in the

same resort different times of the year.

841

Angele Miller: Yeah, thank you.

842

That's really good.

843

And one last comment I want to

mention too is I know for us, like

844

here being in Atlantic Canada, we're

dealing with a lot of condensation.

845

Which can be challenging in the glamping

segment, and also like being that it's

846

very cold in the winter to have a glamping

unit that's properly well insulated,

847

because a lot of glamping unit, yeah,

they come with insulation, but it

848

doesn't make it for us and mine as well.

849

40 or 50 degrees here so that's been a

challenge for all the glamping resorts.

850

There's probably over 50 glamping

resorts, even just in New Brunswick

851

alone here in Atlantic Canada.

852

It's an industry that's just completely

exploded and strived, but the challenge

853

had been with most people is number

one, the condensation is extremely high.

854

So having the big skylight and things

like that in our segment is very

855

challenging because it will drip water.

856

Continuously being with the condensation

but also to have the proper insulation.

857

Like for us, for example, we had to

spray foam the units in order to be

858

able to control the humidity levels and

the condensation levels into our units.

859

So is that something that you guys are

taking a lead with also in your type

860

of products that you're manufacturing.

861

Gene Eidelman: Yeah.

862

No, our units are designed

to withstand cold weather and

863

with the newest condensation.

864

So yeah, we might, again, look at this

unique condition and doing a skylight in

865

an area like this might not be a great

idea, but but we are, our team is full

866

of structural and mechanical engineers.

867

And and in terms of, so you understand

how we can alter the the insulation, we

868

print an outside bead, which is outside

the wall, and then on the inside bead.

869

So we leave space for insulation.

870

So for a standard R30, it's a six inch

space that would fill with insulation.

871

For your area, R49 might be required.

872

So now we need to leave three more inches.

873

So really, as we print units.

874

Again even in Colorado, Colorado has

four unique climates, and so it will make

875

sense to open the factory there because

now we can have climates that maybe have

876

A frame roofs, so for easier for the snow

loads and higher insulation, so yeah,

877

we can definitely, and we'd love to go.

878

We'd love to work with you, the fact that

you're franchising this I assume around

879

the world we're the kind of perfect

partner to take this to unique climates.

880

But our units will do very well in both

very cold climates and very hot climates

881

Angele Miller: as well.

882

I look forward to seeing your product.

883

And also, Jeremy, I look forward

to visiting your resort by

884

the Grand Canyon, by the way.

885

It looks like it's going

to be amazing there.

886

Brian Searl: Yeah, shoot me a message.

887

We can work that out.

888

Todd, your thoughts on hotel?

889

And I know we only have a

couple minutes left, so please

890

talk however long you want.

891

But just if anybody needs to jump off and

has a hard stop, thank you for being here.

892

And feel free to drop

off whenever you want.

893

Todd Wynne-Parry: Yeah, thanks.

894

Thanks Brian.

895

Just real quickly Gene, I know

Gene and we've talked about

896

some opportunities for growth.

897

I think from the hotel perspective,

hotels are always about scale and size.

898

And so there's already been

modular construction in the past,

899

whether it's by panels, where

actually units put them together.

900

I think there's definitely an

application in the bigger hotel world,

901

but it's just, I think it's going to

be like 100 plus unit and might be a

902

modular format or something like that.

903

But, yeah.

904

Actually I had a question for Jeremy

and that was with your experience

905

with UnderCanvas and brand expansion.

906

Are you looking to take

Backlands to other destinations?

907

Jeremy Budge: Yeah, definitely.

908

I think, we're pretty early in our

growth stage right now with trying

909

to nail the first experience.

910

But, yeah, fairly soon we'd like to

be, start looking at other locations.

911

Todd Wynne-Parry: Great.

912

When that comes up, I'd love to talk

to you about your growth strategy.

913

I'd be interested to hear

how you look at doing that.

914

Brian Searl: Yeah, that'd be great.

915

All right.

916

Alessandro.

917

Alessandro van de Loo: Yeah, thanks.

918

I actually I have two points.

919

I think Gene what I, what we see

here in Europe is that we have

920

some manufacturers who are actually

building this I call it prefab.

921

We call it mobile homes, but it's

like at the end cabins that are

922

built out of Yeah, plastic materials.

923

And I think difference is they're not

printed, but they're like assembled.

924

And I really think your technology

can be like the evolution

925

of this kind of product.

926

And we really see that this product is

installed, especially in the operations

927

that are placing like 50 to 200, like

same type of units to create one resort.

928

And I think that's very interesting.

929

But personally, I'm, I really believe

that the future of the small scale

930

locations is more to have like

the one of the specific pieces.

931

And then if I understand it correctly,

maybe the scale is not really interesting

932

to build to 3d print a lot of them.

933

So yeah, definitely.

934

I think for the European market.

935

On this bigger operations where

scale is really interesting.

936

It could be a very interesting

technology for the future.

937

Gene Eidelman: And Alessandro, we're

using Italian robots and Dutch extruders.

938

. I actually

939

Alessandro van de Loo: You're

perfectly made for me, actually.

940

Exactly.

941

Brian Searl: All right.

942

Nice.

943

Does anybody have any final thoughts?

944

I know we had a big, long discussion.

945

I feel like we need a two hour

show, maybe, but I don't know if

946

anyone here wants to commit to that

long but super great discussions.

947

I hate to come off every week, but

does anybody have any final thoughts?

948

No, you're all going to be shy now.

949

Zach Stoltenberg: You may want to

give a shout out to our sponsor.

950

We always seem to forget that

to the very end of the show.

951

Brian Searl: I know somebody's

got to be in charge of that.

952

Do we have, I don't even know

who the sponsor is of this show.

953

It's Horizon Outdoor Hospitality.

954

I do know that.

955

But super excited.

956

Yeah.

957

I'm grateful always for Horizon Outdoor

Hospitality for sponsoring the show.

958

And everybody sticks into the end anyways,

Zach, like they all listen to this

959

amazing discussion that you guys have.

960

They tolerate me.

961

And so at the end of the show is

the time to mention our sponsor.

962

Without Dr.

963

Hospitality, who's just, they provide

RV park campground management services.

964

I'm sure they have some people with

glamping resorts underneath there,

965

belts to just a really great company.

966

Scott's losing his team.

967

So if you're looking for anything

for RV park management services,

968

or even on the accounting side.

969

They've got experts in

all those different areas.

970

I'm just grateful to have them

as a sponsor for the show.

971

But yeah, I really appreciate

everybody being here.

972

It was great to meet you, Gene.

973

Excited to see where Azure

Apprentice Homes goes from here.

974

Jeremy, your resort as well.

975

And then especially if you expand,

we'd love to have you back on

976

the show to talk about that.

977

Chris, Angel, Todd, Zach,

Alessandro as always.

978

I feel like we never get to talk as

much as we should get to talk since you

979

guys are recurring guests, but I still

feel like we have good conversations.

980

I don't know if that balances

it out, but I hope so.

981

So thank you guys all for being here.

982

Take care.

983

And we'll see you next week for

another episode of Mc Fireside Chats.

984

Take care, guys.

985

See you.

986

Thank you, care.

987

Todd Wynne-Parry: Bye.

988

Thank you.

989

Joining us for this episode of Mc Fireside

Chats with your host, Brian Searl.

990

Have a suggestion for a show idea.

991

Want your campground or

company new future episode?

992

Email us at hello@moderncampground.com.

993

Get your daily dose of news from

modern campground.com and be sure to

994

join us next week for more insights.

995

Welcome to the fascinating

world of outdoor hospitality.