In a brand new season of Mimir's Well, Allorah and Kitty explore the magical and mischievous world of poppets and dollbabies. We learn of their ancient origins with the Venus of Willendorf and Medieval wax dolls, explore the world's most haunted dolls, and learn how to make our own magical dolls and poppets. PLUS, you know, you'll get our witchy, unhinged banter that you won't find on our sister podcast Otherworldly Oracle Official Podcast.

DISCLAIMER: There may be some content that is unsuitable for children under the age of 18. Listener discretion is advised.

Grab your supplemental Grimoire Page on our Burning HallOWS Patreon page.

Visit Allorah's website to grab a Tarot or Numerology reading or soul origin profile.

And check out the Witches Cabinet article on poppet magic to learn more.

Welcome to Meme's Well, A

Burning Hallows production.

2

We are your hosts, Laura and Kitty.

3

We are back for a brand new season

of depth, darkness, and debauchery.

4

Starting off season three, we're

stepping through the dollhouse

5

door and entering the magical

and terrifying land of puppets.

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Before we play House, we'd like

to remind our listeners to tune

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into our sister podcast, the

Otherworldly Oracle Official podcast.

8

You can also visit my website, ver Tarot

and numerology readings@alllaurarain.com.

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And don't forget to sign up on our

Patreon for Book of Shadows pages that

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correspond to each of our episodes,

get bloopers and other awesome extras.

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Disclaimer, this podcast is for

educational purposes only, and the

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practices mentioned are in no way

sanctioned or recommended by the hosts.

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Be aware this episode may include

content that is inappropriate for

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listeners under the age of 18.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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Because we might be going rated R people.

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Just kidding.

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Rated R.

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Aw.

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You remember when that

was like the scared, huh?

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I was gonna say, remember when?

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That was like the pinnacle

of childhood when you were

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allowed to watch rated R movies?

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Oh my God.

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Of course.

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Yeah.

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Well, I walked in today and my son

was watching some TV mature series,

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and I'm like, whoa, what is this?

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There were two people getting a

little hot and heavy on the screen.

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I'm like, hold up, wait a second.

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How old is he now?

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Eight.

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He just saw, he thought it was something

to do with five night, five nights at

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Freddy's, if you know what that is.

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Mm mm-Hmm.

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And speaking of dolls and puppets right.

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And just turned it on.

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I'm like, yeah, just because it's got

puppets or, you know, like whatever arcade

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dolls on it doesn't make it appropriate.

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Okay.

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Then, so tell me, did you play with

a lot of dolls when you were little?

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No, and I'll tell you why.

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I'll tell you why.

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Okay.

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You're gonna laugh.

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It's a, it's a hilarious

antidote in my family.

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So I, I refuse to play with dolls

because they were not babies,

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because babies don't have hair.

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Oh.

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Why do I feel like I know this story?

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It is hilarious though.

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So I put like, I had a

couple that were bald.

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Mm-Hmm.

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But mostly I carried around my Cupe

doll, if you know what that is.

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I remember those.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, that was, that was my doll baby.

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I mean, so yeah, you played

with dolls then, but not like I

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didn't play with Cabbage Patch

kids or Barbies or any of that.

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The only thing I did with Barbies

was rip their heads off and put 'em

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on my fingers to play head binger.

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Oh my goodness.

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To eighties hairband music.

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Okay.

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Well then did you, did any, did

these dolls or, or whatever they

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were, did they have any names?

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Nope.

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Nope.

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It's just my, just my, my baby.

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You didn't call 'em like

twisted sister or something.

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Ah, that's so funny.

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I just thought that same phrase when

I was thinking about the head bangers.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's funny.

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No, I didn't, I didn't.

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I definitely was.

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A child who played with a lot of dolls.

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I don't know.

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I just always did baby

dolls, Barbie dolls.

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I had a baby doll named Hannah that

I ended up giving to my daughter,

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and she completely destroyed.

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Like I think she colored in the belly

button with like permanent marker.

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That's hilarious.

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And it was just a hot mess.

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I ended up getting rid of it.

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I was like, okay, that didn't work out.

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Now I had a lot of dolls.

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That doesn't mean I played with them.

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I got you.

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Like they sat on essentially my toy box.

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Mm-Hmm.

93

In I, I guess it was like three rows deep,

just because people would give them to me.

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Yeah.

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But I would just shove them up there

and that's where they would live.

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Mm-Hmm.

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Yeah, I don't know.

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I always had a thing for dolls.

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I kind of still do.

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Maybe that's why we're doing this episode.

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Hey, look, I do have a handmade doll that

my great-grandmother made for me when

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I was, I don't know, like two mm-Hmm.

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And it's, so it's a porcelain face.

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Mm-Hmm.

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And head.

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And then it's on a stand.

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I put it on my ancestor altar and my.

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My bonus babies, they're afraid of it.

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And they made me, they

made me put it away.

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'cause it creeps 'em out.

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Yeah, because it's, I

mean, it's old like Yeah.

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I mean 80.

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So it is a 40-year-old doll.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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So I guess we get into it now.

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So if y'all haven't figured it out yet,

this episode is all about pops and dolls.

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So there's actually a long history

behind dolls and or poppets.

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So first of all, let's talk about the

terms and how, in my opinion, this

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is just my opinion, something that

I've kind of formulated on my own.

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I do not find the words doll

and popit interchangeable

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specifically when it comes to magic.

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Mm-Hmm.

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And here's why.

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So.

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The word doll is theorized to have

initially come from the word idle

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or be related to the word idol.

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Hmm.

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So when we think about idle, you

know, we say, someone's my idol.

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You know that you put them up on a

pedestal, you really look up to them.

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But , back in the day, an idol was also

like a statue or a representative of a,

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a deity or a spirit of some kind, right?

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Yeah, so the doll was in the

image of someone or something

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that was held in high regard.

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The puppet is also related to the

word puppet and is also meaning,

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it something that's controlled by

strings, a doll or an image, or a

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toy that's controlled by strings.

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So to me, when I think if I'm, if I'm

thinking doll versus pop, it, the doll has

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more power because it stands on its own.

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Right.

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Pop it related to puppet means

that it's being controlled.

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So just something to keep in mind.

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Okay.

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I, I have a question.

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I don't know if we're gonna

get to this later or not.

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Okay.

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So in terms of magic and magic use, what

would be the difference between the two?

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Yeah, we're gonna get to that later.

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Okay.

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I have a whole thing on that.

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Gotcha.

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So you know what the

Venus of Willendorf is?

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Yes.

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Very familiar.

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. I believe I have my timing right.

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It's the Venus of Willendorf.

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For those who don't know, you could

Google it and see an image and I'll

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probably put it on the Book of Shadows

page as well, so everyone can see.

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But essentially it's a small image of

a woman, a, a small statue or a doll,

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essentially, and it's a faceless doll, but

it's, you know, very voluptuous, right?

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She has voluptuous breasts and Mm-hmm.

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Anyway, she is believed to have

been from about 25,000 years ago.

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Does that sound right to you?

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That sounds about right.

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Yeah.

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Give or take, you know, a few millennia.

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Yeah.

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So it's funny though, when you

look up like the history or the

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origins of the doll or pop it,

she doesn't really come up, but.

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To me, I was thinking, okay, what's

the first image that we know of that

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was like, made or like a, a, a statue

of some kind that was made in human

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image that is essentially a doll.

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So this would be the

oldest doll technically.

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Hmm.

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There's all kinds of theories

about the Venus of Willendorf

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from Yeah, I know they're in.

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It's interesting too.

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Go ahead.

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Oh, I was just gonna say from.

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Doll pop it to goddess worship

fertility idol, et cetera.

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There's lot of different, wait,

I think when we're talking about

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dolls and, and, and in this regard,

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okay, let me start over.

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I wanna say more or less that it's kind

of, so dolls have multiple purposes.

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Right?

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And I think I'm gonna get into this a

little bit later too, but dolls were

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not only used as toys back in the

day, but before that, prior to that

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they were more likely ritual items.

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Mm-Hmm.

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And in addition, they were using

it for educational purposes.

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So some of the oldest dolls, like

what we actually call a doll.

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Were the ritual paddle dolls

from Ancient Egypt, which were,

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I believe about 5,000 years ago.

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Have you ever seen these?

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No, I haven't.

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They're literally, it's a wooden paddle

that's made to look like a doll, like

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it has some kind of hair on the top of

the head and very, you know, kind of.

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Rough features, but it's made to

look like a doll, but it's a paddle.

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So I Google, I'm really sure what

they were doing with the paddle

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part, but supposedly they were

used specifically in ritual.

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Hmm.

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You can kind of draw your own conclusions

of that, but there might have been

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some naughty rituals going on there.

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I don't know.

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But yeah, so that's interesting.

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So.

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So kind of crossing between the

doll or the pop, what have you,

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being a toy, but also a ritual

item in ancient Greece and Rome.

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When a young woman got married, she would

offer up her doll to the goddess as an

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like, as an offering, or as a symbol too,

of her transitioning from girl to woman.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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No.

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So I feel like while we today see

dolls as just play things right, just

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a, a toy for a child, probably before

they were used in play, they were,

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they were used as a ritual image of

either a person or what, what people

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thought their deities looked like.

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This is interesting too.

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I'm still stuck on the paddle dolls.

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Did you look 'em up?

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Yeah, I've Googled.

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Yeah.

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I've Googled.

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No, I'm, I'm sitting here reading.

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I didn't know apparently as part

of the cult of Hathor Mm-Hmm.

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Who was the goddess of love, right?

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Yeah.

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And apparently her

priestesses had tattoos.

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Oh, that's cool.

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Of the paddle dolls.

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Oh, I didn't know that.

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See, I didn't read enough into

the paddle doll thing, but

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that's, that's interesting.

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That's interesting.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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I'll leave it alone now.

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Well, now I'm thinking like loop

C, like whipping people to purify

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them and that kind of thing.

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Hmm.

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Like, you know, anyway,

they was into some bsm.

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Okay.

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Let's say, that's exactly what I was

thinking, but I'm glad you said it.

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This is MiiR as well.

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This is not Oh, that is true.

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We can say that here.

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That is true.

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We can, you're right.

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We can.

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We can.

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So, I mean, I could go on and on about

the ancient history of dolls and idols

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and statues and things, but basically

fast forward to medieval times and

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we just had a little chat about.

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Jata of Luxembourg.

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In our other worldly Oracle episode

on the Women of the War of the Roses.

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Mm.

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And AOR was talking to us about how a

pop with broken arms was supposedly used

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as evidence to accuse her of witchcraft.

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Yes.

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There's a lot of.

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Witches that are accused during the witch

trial times or during the burning times,

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whatever you wanna call it, from middle

Ages through to the early modern era

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that the pop, it is basically used as

evidence that this woman or person was

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a witch, which is complete shi because

who can't throw together a puppet.

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Exactly.

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You know what I mean?

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Like Okay.

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It's all, it's like, okay,

you could have just made that.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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And I tend to think, and I think I.

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Doreen Valiente, not virtue.

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Doreen Valiente talks about how

witches were, first of all, they were

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probably a lot smarter than that, and

they wouldn't have made a poppe out of

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something like cloth back in the day.

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They might've chosen something that they

could have easily destroyed if they knew

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that someone was searching for evidence.

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So things like wax.

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Or sticks even that you could just

throw into a fire and evidence is gone.

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Right.

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Or clay.

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Exactly.

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Yeah, that makes more sense.

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Yeah, I agree.

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I.

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It's actually in, now that I remember,

it's actually in the Book of Shadows

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written by, and I know this is a

controversial figure, but I'm gonna

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say it written by Gerald Gardner.

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He actually says, when you

construct Poppets to make it

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out of wax or clay, or something

that can be thrown into the fire.

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Hmm.

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Well look in our day and age though,

so can cloth, I mean it, it can

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always be thrown into the fire, but.

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I don't think that we're

under as much threat, correct.

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At the moment.

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Well, we aren't, but there are places

in the world that are though actually.

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True.

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True.

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Yeah.

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And you're right.

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I mean, cloth will catch on fire and burn.

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But I think, you know, it's just

about maybe the stuff that you're

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using inside and something that

would melt or be disguised quickly.

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Oh yeah.

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'cause the cloth is definitely

not something you can rip up.

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Right.

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So you need some, like if somebody's

coming, you need something

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like clay where you can chuck

that across, you know, across.

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A field and it will shatter.

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Yeah.

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Or wax, you literally throw it

into a fire and it, it's melt.

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You know, it's immediately melting.

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Yeah.

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Or even just put it in your hand to warm

it up and you can form it into a ball.

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You know what I mean?

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A hundred percent.

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But I mean, in all reality, you

could get rid of a cloth, pop it,

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so like when you think it through.

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Yeah, you could, but I'm just like,

we're talking about ease of disposal.

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Right?

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I know.

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I know.

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Cloth would be the least easy.

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True to, to disguise or get rid of.

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No, I know.

328

I'm just trying to imagine a scenario

where like a witch hunter like breaks

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down the door or like, or you know,

they're coming and you're like a

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quick, quick, like burn all the pops.

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I guess it depends on how

much time you have, right?

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Mm.

333

Yeah.

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Okay.

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Definitely.

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So Pops are mentioned in

the Salem witch trials.

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Bridget, of course Bishop was

actually accused of having a

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pop during the witch trials.

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Yeah, and on and on.

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Actually, if you go to Salem and you

visit the witch house museum, they have,

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I don't know if it's an actual pop it

from the time period, but it's, it's.

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It's a very nicely done replica, at

least of a popit from that time period.

343

Mm-Hmm.

344

And it's a little creepy, you

know, and it is made of cloth..

345

So what is your opinion

of Popit magic in general?

346

Is that something that you've done a lot?

347

Define a lot?

348

I don't know, a handful of

times, five times, 10 times.

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Yeah, so I've, I've definitely

used puppets for sure.

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I, how do I put this?

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I have never had use for them

for in, in a baneful sense.

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Right, right.

353

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't Yeah.

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If, if it came down to it.

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But I have used puppet

magic a lot as far as.

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Healing.

357

Mm-Hmm.

358

As far as weaving peace and harmony and

those kinds of things into the home space.

359

Yeah.

360

I love that.

361

That's good.

362

Yeah.

363

So definitely yes.

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Yeah.

365

I mean, they can be used

for benevolent or otherwise.

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Types of magic.

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I think a lot of people get this

misconception of puppets and, and dolls

368

that, that it's all negative or all

you know, used in attacks, I guess,

369

but, Hmm, it doesn't, it, it doesn't

have to be that, and a lot of people

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use it for like what you said, like

for healing purposes, to draw love, to

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draw a friendship, to draw prosperity.

372

It honestly, you could probably

use it for any intention.

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Oh, you can?

374

Yeah.

375

I mean, it's just like anything, right?

376

So your intention is the bottom

line and what ingredients

377

you choose to use with a pop.

378

Even down to how you sew the stitches

and things like that, if you're making

379

it from scratch, puts more power into

the doll for that particular intent.

380

Correct?

381

Correct.

382

So it's, you know, to me it's

just a physical form of a spell.

383

Yes.

384

And we're gonna get a little bit more

into that too, that you keep working.

385

Yeah.

386

Yes.

387

Okay.

388

But before we go too deep into the

magical aspect of it, let's go back

389

and talk about the terrifying part

of this, which is haunted dolls.

390

So yeah, I'm not down, I'm not

down with the haunted dolls.

391

Okay.

392

I.

393

I'm a little macab, I guess, or

weird when it comes to this 'cause

394

I find it incredibly fascinating.

395

And so first of all, let's talk about

how a doll might become haunted.

396

'cause there's different ways, right?

397

It's not just one thing.

398

First of all, residual energy.

399

This is one way a doll can be

haunted in that, let's say a

400

little girl has a doll, right?

401

And she goes through something

traumatic or tragic or just in

402

general has a lot of emotions and.

403

That energy is built up when she is

holding onto her doll, or she's, you

404

know, she's playing with this doll.

405

The doll is her friend, essentially,

and it takes on her emotions,

406

her energetic vibrations.

407

So in that way, a doll can be become

haunted by her, her emotions kind

408

of like a Poltergeist type scenario.

409

Woo.

410

In addition, because the fact that

dolls are in the image of human beings,

411

people theorize that it makes it much

easier to become a vessel for different

412

types of entities, including lower

level entities as well as human spirits.

413

Hmm, that makes sense.

414

So, I mean, obviously if I'm a spirit

and I'm trying to attach to something,

415

I'm probably gonna go into something or

attach to something that's more human,

416

like, say like a doll than, you know,

like a freaking mug on the counter.

417

Right?

418

Hmm.

419

Okay.

420

And then another way in which they can

be haunted is through thought form.

421

So this is when a spirit is

purposely conjured into the

422

vessel by a magical practitioner.

423

And I mean, you could say this is

a puppet as well, but I don't know.

424

Like I said, I see poppets and

dolls a little bit differently.

425

Dolls kind of take on their own.

426

Personality and in my opinion, can be a

little bit stronger in ways than a pop

427

because they're a little more sentient.

428

Does that make sense?

429

Like they, they can think on their

own, especially if you're conjuring

430

an intelligent spirit into a doll.

431

Mm-Hmm, you're with me.

432

But why would you do that?

433

Why not?

434

No, I'm just sitting here

thinking like, I don't know.

435

I, mm.

436

What would I conjure into a doll?

437

I mean, some people use dolls

or just different vessels to

438

house their familiar spirits.

439

Mm.

440

Okay.

441

Yeah.

442

So, oh, for example, I made

a kitchen guardian, pop it.

443

Mm-Hmm.

444

And I asked the spirit of my house to

use it as a vessel to watch over us in

445

the kitchen and to protect the house.

446

Oh, that makes sense.

447

So meaning the spirit can come and go.

448

It's not like it has to be trapped in

it, it just uses it as a vessel to, you

449

know, manifest its presence essentially.

450

Right.

451

So talking about haunted dolls, we

know some of the more famous ones.

452

Everyone's heard of,

Annabelle, most people have.

453

Mm.

454

Have you?

455

I, yes, but I don't know why.

456

Okay.

457

So there's a popular horror

movie franchise called Annabelle.

458

First of all, that's based on an actual.

459

An actual doll, a haunted

doll named Annabel.

460

Mm-Hmm.

461

And she also, I think she makes an

appearance in the Conjuring franchise,

462

but I could be wrong about that.

463

So anyway, there were these two

psychic, well, it, it was a psychic

464

medium and her husband, the Warrens.

465

Have you heard of them?

466

Yes.

467

Ed and Lorraine.

468

Well, they had a doll named

Annabelle that they housed in

469

their home in like a glass case.

470

It was actually a raggedy and

doll that was named Annabelle that

471

supposedly caused its owners a lot

of misfortune, we'll say, I think bad

472

dreams and all that kind of thing.

473

So she was supposedly very haunted.

474

So the Warrens took her on to.

475

Lock the spirit up basically, and,

and keep everyone safe from it.

476

Hmm.

477

So that's where the horror

movies come, come in.

478

And the Warrens are actually

both passed away now.

479

And so if you can believe us,

Zach Baggins from that haunted

480

show, I forget what it's called.

481

Oh Lord.

482

Is it ghosts or paranoid?

483

I, I don't know.

484

I honestly ghost hunters.

485

Ghost hunters.

486

Thank you.

487

I'm not a fan of the guy to be fully

honest, but he supposedly has it

488

in his museum now, so who knows.

489

It isn't a museum, correct?

490

It is still locked up.

491

Supposedly a cult museum.

492

Mm-Hmm hmm.

493

Well, the last research shows that

it was at the, in the Warren's

494

museum, but they've passed.

495

They're, they no longer run that museum.

496

And so I asked, I asked my

mom, who's the paranormal?

497

Like she's obsessed with

all the paranormal uhhuh.

498

She's the one that told me that's that

Zach Baggin supposedly has her now.

499

Aw, come on.

500

We're on the paranormal street, y'all.

501

Worked on the Paranormal

Street is in the Conjuring.

502

Just confirming.

503

Yeah.

504

And there there is a actual movie

called Annabelle too though.

505

But yes, thank you for confirming that.

506

Okay, another haunted doll.

507

Robert the doll.

508

Is actually housed in

a museum in Key West.

509

My daughter tried everything to get

me to go there and I was like, I'm

510

not gonna go see Robert the adult.

511

It's not happening.

512

He is frightening.

513

He, there's a lot of stories about

when he was made and this little boy,

514

he was made for this little boy and.

515

It basically came to life essentially,

like the little boy would see him running

516

around the room and he would cause

all this misfortune for this family.

517

And you know, I think they

tried to get rid of it and

518

the other person had problems.

519

And anyway, he's in a museum and

people will go there to see him.

520

And the legend has it that you have to ask

him for his permission to photograph him.

521

Or like some misfortune will befall you.

522

So people still do that to this day.

523

They'll ask him, is it okay

if I take your picture?

524

And people that work there claim that

they can see his head moving and stuff.

525

It's really scary.

526

I'd be out.

527

I know.

528

So there's another doll supposedly

in England that's haunted.

529

Her name's Mandy.

530

I don't know enough about her.

531

Y'all can look her up, but I just

wanted to address something real quick.

532

On eBay, there's a Haunted Dolls Market.

533

Okay.

534

It's like a huge freaking thing.

535

If you're interested, you can go on

eBay and just type in haunted doll.

536

There's like sellers out

there now that are using.

537

This is like a, just a means

to make money, I think.

538

I don't believe that 90% of these

dolls are actually haunted, but they

539

use these tactics to sell the dolls.

540

Like they tell this whole story

and they say, oh, well, I use the

541

EMF reader and it shows that this

doll is haunted, blah, blah, blah.

542

I don't think most of

these dolls are haunted.

543

I think it's actually more rare for a doll

to be haunted than, than not, you know?

544

Mm-Hmm.

545

That's just my opinion.

546

So first we determine our

intention, which we've talked about.

547

And I als I also wanna say, for

me, I'm deciding is this a doll?

548

Like will it have its own

kind of individual personality

549

and essence, or is it a pop?

550

And I'm creating this for a specific

purpose and controlling it completely.

551

Does that make sense?

552

Yes.

553

And basically, puppet magic works in

the form of sympathetic magic mostly.

554

Would you agree with that?

555

Mm-Hmm.

556

Yeah.

557

I think also I was gonna say

also contagious magic as well.

558

A little bit.

559

Yeah.

560

It could be.

561

Because I'm just thinking like

when you, or when I have used like

562

a healing puppet like you, so the

things that you, stuff inside that

563

puppet are all healing intended.

564

Yeah.

565

Right.

566

That makes sense.

567

So the, so the more, the more

things that are healing oriented.

568

I, I don't know if, Hmm.

569

I think it's both

sympathetic and contagious.

570

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

571

I mean it, yeah.

572

You're picking up what I'm putting down.

573

Yeah, I am.

574

Okay.

575

I agree with you.

576

But sympathetic magic when it comes to,

if you're targeting a specific person or

577

yourself and you use personal effects.

578

Right.

579

If you're creating the pop in a

person's image of whether it be

580

yourself or someone else, Hmm.

581

That would be the

sympathetic aspect, right.

582

Yep.

583

Okay, thanks.

584

And then if you're creating a vessel

specifically for a spirit, like what

585

we've been talking about, you're

obviously gonna wanna choose things

586

to align with that intention too.

587

So things that the spirit might like

or make it feel more comfortable.

588

Any herbs or items that might just be

in, in alignment with, if it's you're

589

familiar, like does your familiar, like I.

590

Lavender, you know, it could be anything.

591

We also talked about different

materials that you can use.

592

Literally, you could use anything to make

a doll that you wanted to, but fabric.

593

You could use new fabric.

594

You could use old fabric from

like old clothing, old t-shirts.

595

I've used an apron.

596

Hmm, A vintage apron that I

cut up and, and made into a pop

597

it using a cookie cutter too.

598

And you can use wax, clay sticks.

599

Stones, like literally anything.

600

Potatoes, people make potato pops.

601

I would recommend dryer lint.

602

Yeah.

603

I was gonna say, I, I wanna bring that up.

604

You had mentioned that a while back.

605

Yeah.

606

Because look, if you're, especially

if you are making a puppet for

607

like family protection Mm-Hmm.

608

Or anything family oriented.

609

Dryer lint is an easy way to collect

something from everyone in the house.

610

Right.

611

That makes sense.

612

Mm-Hmm.

613

So that's, yeah.

614

And then of course, because it's

lint, you get a nice stuffing with it.

615

I love that.

616

That's a great idea.

617

And you're recycling and reusing, right?

618

Yes.

619

Definitely.

620

So if I have, I have entire bags of lin.

621

Oh yeah.

622

I have a little tin on

the side of my dryer.

623

Yeah.

624

And my bonus kids are like,

why do you collect all that?

625

I'm like, none of your business.

626

That's, that's cute.

627

I love it.

628

So if you're using fabric,

obviously you have to have some

629

kind of stuffing to go in there.

630

So cotton lint, as all Laura

just said, you can also use hair.

631

Mm.

632

Also remnants of fabric or

remnants of yarn thread.

633

Anything that you can stuff in the

frigging but of the pop, it will work.

634

Right.

635

Herbs?

636

Yeah.

637

Okay.

638

In addition to creating

your pop, you wanna feed the

639

popit to increase the energy.

640

So for example, as an, you know,

you can offer something to it.

641

If there's a spirit

inside, you can sing to it.

642

You can hold it in your

arms and pray over it.

643

You can help me out here.

644

What else You got?

645

Anything?

646

Music?

647

Yeah.

648

Definitely.

649

But I mostly just use oils.

650

I was gonna say oils, but I didn't, yeah.

651

Okay.

652

I didn't know, I don't

use oils on poppets.

653

I use it on other things.

654

But does you don't feel like that

ruins the fabric or anything?

655

Mm, I guess depending on the oil, right?

656

Yeah.

657

I mean, I guess it depends, but also like.

658

It also depends too, if you sew the whole

thing shut or if you leave an opening.

659

Because generally true, the oil goes

on the in internal Correct stuff.

660

Good point.

661

Very good point.

662

Yeah.

663

So if you need to be putting

Think more inside, feeding more

664

inside, then you would wanna

leave a little, little slit open.

665

Yeah.

666

Or do some Velcro or

something, or a button.

667

Or button snap or something.

668

Yeah.

669

I don't know.

670

I've only ever closed mine up, but that's

a, that is a valid point you bring up.

671

Hmm.

672

I know sometimes I have good ideas.

673

They're, they're few and

far between, whatever.

674

Okay.

675

So after that, and you're, what, whatever

your intention was, is manifested.

676

Obviously you're gonna wanna

properly dispose of the doll

677

if that is what you want to do.

678

I mean, sometimes you

wouldn't dispose of the doll.

679

It just depends on the intention, right?

680

If it's a doll and it's meant to watch

over your child, then obviously you

681

don't wanna dispose of it ever, right?

682

I mean, if you're using a pop that's

meant to bind someone from doing

683

harm and then you know it's run its

course, we're no longer worried about

684

this being a threat or what have you,

then, then it's time to think about

685

how, what do you wanna do with a doll?

686

Laura, do you want to talk a

little bit about voodoo dolls?

687

Well, I, I just have a question and

I think that you can clarify this.

688

Okay.

689

So sometimes in our modern world,

our modern day, we get a little

690

testy about puppets and dolls.

691

Mm hmm.

692

And gatekeeping and all

those wonderful things.

693

Oh boy.

694

Okay.

695

So my question to you is are you, is

using puppets and dolls a closed practice?

696

No.

697

Okay.

698

Can you explain a bit about why?

699

Okay.

700

So when most people think of magic having

to do with dolls or puppets, the image

701

of the voodoo doll comes into play.

702

Yes.

703

Pops in pretty much everyone's minds

because that's what Hollywood has

704

presented to us over the years.

705

Yes.

706

Thank you.

707

Pop culture.

708

That it only has to do with voodoo and

that, you know, it's only used for harm.

709

You know, the image of a doll with

the pin sticking out of it and

710

the stitched face and all that.

711

While I'm not saying that that's not a

real thing or that voodoo who do, you

712

know, I'm not saying they don't use

dolls because I'm sure they do that

713

aspect, maybe how they're creating

it and what they're using, what

714

they're saying, all that, that part

is probably a closed practice, right?

715

We could say it's closed.

716

However, the use of dolls or puppets

in general, and pretty much anyone's

717

practice is not a closed practice because.

718

They've been used for ritual purposes

in every culture all around the world

719

for, you know, thousands of years.

720

Since the beginning of time in memorial.

721

Yes.

722

And as we discussed in this episode, I

mean, whether these accused witches in the

723

medieval times actually use those puppets

or not, the idea came from somewhere.

724

And we do have evidence that Magical

practitioners used puppets and dolls

725

for, for magical purposes, basically.

726

I mean, even in Rome, now that I'm

thinking about it, and in Germany, we

727

have thermal springs that were ruled

over by specific deities, healing

728

deities, and people would go to those

springs and throw in an image of

729

themselves like in a doll size, right?

730

They would throw that image into

the thermal springs of themselves in

731

order to ask that deity to heal them.

732

I mean, and that was in Germany,

you know, so, you know, we have

733

evidence of it all over the place.

734

So no, it's not closed practice.

735

Okay.

736

I just wanted to clarify that just

in case anybody's out there listening

737

and not basically pigeonholing what

we're saying and thinking that we are

738

appropriating from a culture and it's a

closed practice and et cetera, et cetera.

739

It is not.

740

No.

741

No.

742

Like I said, if you're, if you're, you

know, saying words that they might use in

743

the voodoo practice and using ingredients

that they might use and appropriating

744

things in that way, then yeah.

745

But in general, making puppets and dolls

of your own with your own intentions and

746

ingredients and things is not closed.

747

Okay.

748

Okay.

749

So what about doll houses?

750

Okay.

751

This is like, it's a modern thing,

I think, but I've seen a lot

752

of people creating like witches

doll houses on social media.

753

You can find it on Instagram,

Pinterest, all that kind of stuff.

754

But the idea is what if you

created your own little doll

755

house to house multiple spirits.

756

I feel like maybe not all

those spirits would get along.

757

Well, I mean.

758

Like, you, you gotta be, I don't

know, you gotta be careful.

759

Come on, people need to fuck around

and find out sometimes, you know.

760

Ha, ha, ha, ha.

761

You're never gonna learn

if you don't fuck around.

762

You won't find out, will ya?

763

Listen people, obviously, create your

doll houses responsibly, alright?

764

Oh man, that's a shirt.

765

That's the next design.

766

Yeah.

767

Friends don't let friends

create dollhouses irresponsibly.

768

Exactly.

769

No, but for real, like all

that aside, it is a fun project

770

or craft to do with a kid.

771

Like if, if you have a girl that's really

into dollhouses or even like a teen

772

girl who's just into making things and

being crafty, seems really fun to me.

773

You can take craft kits for dollhouses

and completely like witchify them.

774

You know, one thing I have seen with

dolls that and this is fairly recently

775

that I've seen happening that I think is

really cool that I'm like actually toying

776

with the idea of doing it myself is there.

777

I've seen witches who are sourcing old.

778

Dolls, like, for example, like

the American girl doll and then

779

they are turning them into goddess

statues for lack of a better.

780

Oh, that's crazy.

781

I haven't seen that.

782

Yeah.

783

So they're turning, like, I've

seen an American girl doll

784

turned into Breed, for example.

785

That's crazy.

786

I can't even picture

that, but I believe you.

787

So I'll actually she's on my Facebook.

788

I can't remember her name off the top

of my head, but if I find it, I will

789

send it to you because I was like, Oh,

that's a, that's a pretty good idea.

790

Interesting.

791

Like as a new and different

ways to venerate your deity.

792

Yeah.

793

That's cool.

794

That's cool.

795

I like it.

796

Yeah.

797

I have three dolls that were my

great grandmothers and they're all

798

porcelain face and one is really old.

799

It looks like it's at

least a hundred years old.

800

And, but mainly I just associate

them with ancestral work, but that's

801

interesting to take something and

upcycle it and reuse it in that way.

802

I love, I love the creativity

in witchcraft too, because you

803

can literally take anything and

make it something else, you know?

804

For your magical purposes.

805

I love that.

806

I know.

807

I love it.

808

So exciting.

809

All right.

810

Well, this has been illuminating,

terrifying in the, yeah,

811

and, and a bit terrifying.

812

Just quickly, I Googled what,

what was that Robert the doll?

813

Yeah.

814

He's labeled the world's

most terrifying doll.

815

Yeah.

816

He's he's it's creepy.

817

My daughter was like, come

on, nothing will happen.

818

I'm like I ain't doing it.

819

That's where I draw the line.

820

I would have been like, listen, Zach.

821

Exactly.

822

Exactly.

823

Should we wrap it up?

824

We should.

825

We'd like to thank our listeners

for joining us for this.

826

First episode of season

three and Mimir as well.

827

Hit the subscribe button and the

bell to be notified of future shows.

828

Don't forget.

829

You can reach us anytime to share

feedback, show ideas, or ask questions

830

by emailing us at burning hallows

productions, all one word at gmail.

831

com or going to Patrion forward

slash burning hallows and signing up.

832

And remember, despite our sweet

reputations, we really have the hearts of

833

men on our altars that we keep in jars.