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In this episode of The Pricing Lady Podcast, I sit down for part two of my
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conversation with Vena Verga Danemar on is Your Pricing Legally Sound.
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We talk about discounts, currency, geo tagging, and more.
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Sit back, relax, and enjoy the episode.
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Before we dig in, this conversation is for information only.
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It is not legal advice and does not create a lawyer client relationship.
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Let's get started.
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when it comes to discount and promotions mm-hmm I always joke with people that
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they are very creative when it comes to lowering their prices and yes, not as
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creative when it comes to raising them.
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So there are rules there.
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Sorry,
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I have a little beef with discounts and promotions.
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But yes, they can be effective.
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When they're done, right?
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Yes.
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But what do Swiss or EU laws say when it comes to discounts or what now?
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Prices and, and what you have to show or not show.
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Yes.
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This is a very important question, especially now we're
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gonna have the Cyber Monday.
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Yes.
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Black Friday sales.
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Absolutely.
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So, yeah.
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Discounts.
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Mm-hmm.
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When you're talking about discounts, you still need a price to compare
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it with, because otherwise it cannot be a discount if you're not
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comparing it with another price.
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Right.
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You need to have an older price.
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Mm-hmm.
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At least, or at least, um, a price to compare it with.
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Mm-hmm.
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Now let's talk about first in Switzerland.
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In Switzerland again, we apply the pricing ordinance, the Swiss pricing ordinance,
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and in this ordinance there is at least.
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If I'm not mistaken, at least three scenarios that you have to think about.
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First is if you are offering an introductory price, meaning this is the
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first time that you actually offered something, you haven't offered it before,
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so of course if you put introductory price, people will think this is a lower
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price because it is an introductory price.
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Okay.
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But according to the PBV, you cannot use that label introductory price forever.
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Really?
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No, you cannot.
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Why not?
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You have only a maximum of two months to actually use that introductory price.
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Because, again, in the head of your clients, that introductory price is the
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lower price That is not your usual price.
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Yes.
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And you cannot have that label forever, right?
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You only have two months to to do it again.
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This is Swiss and you are dealing with consumers, okay?
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Mm-hmm.
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B2C.
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Mm-hmm.
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Now, what is the second scenario here?
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You have an old price.
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Mm-hmm.
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But you haven't used it for 30 consecutive days.
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So what is the rule?
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The rule is you can use that old price, the previous old price as
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comparison for only as for only half as long as the period during which the
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real old price was applied or used.
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It's very, a lot of words there.
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I'm gonna explain through an ex example.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay.
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For example, you have a coaching course that's say a thousand francs.
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Mm-hmm.
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You offered it January one to 15 for 15 days, and then you stopped.
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And then you offered it again, say November one to 10.
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Okay.
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So if you, some people would say, but I offered that 15 days and
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then 10 days will, can I use.
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Say a 1000 francs.
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Mm-hmm.
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That is the old price.
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Mm-hmm.
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Can I use it as a comparison?
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Yes, you can.
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But since you did not use that price for 30 consecutive days, you can only use it.
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So in my example, mm-hmm.
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The last time you use it is November one to 10, if I'm not mistaken.
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Mm-hmm.
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So 10 days, you can use that comparison price only for five days.
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Half as long as you've used the old price, you used it, okay.
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Yes.
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Interesting.
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So that is per, per prices that you've used for not for 30 consecutive days.
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So what if you use a price for 30 consecutive days?
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Mm-hmm.
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You are rewarded by the law, meaning you can use the the comparison price
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without any time limits restriction.
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Okay.
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No restrictions.
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So if like forever, my, for example, my coaching course mm-hmm.
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Is a thousand francs and I've used it like forever.
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Mm-hmm.
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More than 30 days.
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I can always use that as my comparison price.
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Mm-hmm.
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So I can say it's now 500 instead of 1000.
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Mm-hmm hmm.
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And there's no restriction or time limit mm-hmm.
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To that comparison.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay.
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So that is for Switzerland, right?
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For the EU, it's.
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Almost the same.
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Mm-hmm.
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But still different
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of course.
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So
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in EU you still need to have a prior price uhhuh, like in Switzerland.
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Right.
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But your, your comparison price should be the lowest price that you have used
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in the last 30 days before the reduction.
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Okay.
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So for example, today my coaching prize is 500 francs.
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Mm-hmm.
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And then in.
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In, um, like in 30 days I want to join a Cyber Monday sale or whatever.
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Mm-hmm.
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I cannot say that.
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The, that original price is a thousand.
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If I increase the, the price to 1000 days before the, the sale, right.
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The lowest price will be my comparison price.
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Mm-hmm.
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So what is the goal here?
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The goal is to avoid fake discounts because we know it, there are businesses
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who would say that this is their price.
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So for example, their price has always been 500 cHFs or Euros.
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And then a few days before the sale, they would increase it to a thousand.
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Mm-hmm.
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And then say 50% discount.
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Right.
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That is a fake discount.
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Right.
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And that is what we're trying to avoid through this loss again, transparency.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I think that's really important.
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Yes.
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This is for consumer, for B2C, for consumers
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B2C.
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Yes.
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Because again, if it's B2B, you can always agree mm-hmm, as to the price.
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But of course, it shouldn't be unfairly competing with others as well.
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Although the consumer loss does not apply to your relationship,
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you should always be fair.
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Of course.
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Of course, of course.
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To, to them and to yourself.
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Yes, exactly.
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Okay, next one.
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A little bit about currency mm-hmm, and geo blocking.
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It's actually a conversation I recently had with someone and I was like, I think
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that they're mixing some things here.
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Yes.
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And so there was a lot, especially here in Switzerland, a few years back around
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this, and I think it was very specifically directed at B2C and digital businesses.
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Exactly.
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Can you tell us more about the currency and the geoblocking and
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what really is the, the, you know, the meat on it behind, behind this?
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What are we trying to achieve here?
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Alright, so first currency can, the question that always pops up
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is, can you actually have dual or more currency on your website?
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Yes, you can.
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Okay.
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Whether in your, in the, you're in the EU or in Switzerland, you can have
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multiple currencies on your website.
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Mm-hmm.
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The only thing is, if you are a Swiss business with Swiss customers, you
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need to have Swiss francs there as one of the currency and as the base.
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Okay.
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And again, going back to what I've discussed a while ago, if you're gonna
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put the price, it should be all inclusive.
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If you're VAT registered, then VAT is already included in that pricing.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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Now you can show a second currency, but you need to be very clear what is
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the function of that second currency?
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Is it just for informational purposes only?
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Mm-hmm.
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Meaning this is my price in CHF, and you can see that this
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is the conversion rate in Euro.
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So informational purposes only like an estimated.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Or is it actually an alternative offer?
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So why am I try, what am I getting at here?
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Mm-hmm.
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Because if you put the price in such a way that it is an alternative
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offer, meaning you show it like this, this is my digital course.
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Mm-hmm.
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It is 200 francs.
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Or you can pay me 200 euros.
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Mm-hmm.
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So in the checkout they can see 200 CHF or 200 euros.
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Mm-hmm.
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At the same level.
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And you are offering it as an alternative.
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Mm-hmm.
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Not just for informational purposes only.
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Mm-hmm.
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If the consumer actually picks Euro.
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Even if they are in Switzerland, you cannot force them to pay you in CHF simply
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because you gave two alternative offers.
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Right.
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So that's the thing that you need to remember when you have two currencies.
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Mm-hmm.
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Is it an alternative offer or mm-hmm.
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Is it for informational purposes only?
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Yeah.
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So the second thing is, say you are a Swiss business or an EU business, and
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you have clients in other countries.
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Mm-hmm.
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As I've said, you can have multiple currencies, but in terms of application,
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there will be an issue there.
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Okay?
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Mm-hmm.
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Because, later on I will, I will, um, say, I will, um, discuss the, the problem.
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Mm-hmm.
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But most people, most businesses, what they do is they, they would actually have
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two websites and two landing pages so that they can separate the currencies.
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Okay?
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But for most business owners, this is an issue because it's challenging to
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have two websites and two landing pages.
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So what you usually do, what we small business owners do, is we only
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have one website and then we have two currencies, two prices there.
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Mm-hmm.
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Now, again, if this is the case, you have to be sure that you
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say that these are alternatives.
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Mm-hmm.
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There is a problem here.
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The problem here is be is that most of us only use one platform, one checkout.
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Mm-hmm.
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And that checkout automatically converts.
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Right.
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One of the currencies.
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Mm-hmm.
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So in my, um, example a while ago, you have a digital course.
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You say 200 francs or 200 euros.
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Mm-hmm.
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And then during checkout, your base usually is francs if you
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are in Switzerland, and then the Euro only gets converted.
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Right.
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So what the, the pe the person sees, the consumer see when they do, when they
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press the checkout button, the euro is now higher than what you actually stated.
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Yeah.
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So you only stated 200 France and now in the checkout it's
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205 because of the conversion.
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That is the problem there, right?
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If you only have one platform, you want more than one currency.
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Mm-hmm.
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And you are just converting things.
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Mm-hmm.
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There is a mismatch between what you offered, what you've stated Right.
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And what they're gonna pay.
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Right.
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Right.
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So how do you solve this?
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Mm-hmm.
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So, at least in my business, I solve it by having two checkouts.
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Mm-hmm, by Stripe.
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So Stripe if you have an account there, you can have two payment links
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that are separate from each other.
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They are not just a conversion of each other.
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Mm-hmm.
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So someone can pay me euros and mm-hmm.
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Because someone can pay me in Swiss francs.
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Mm-hmm.
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And it's not a conversion, they actually pay me what I actually offered.
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Right.
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So that's one thing that you need to really think about if you are going
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to offer in different currencies.
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Okay.
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So when it comes to geo tagging mm-hmm.
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I mentioned a while ago that one of the ways that you can deal with
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multiple currencies is having two websites or two landing pages.
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Mm-hmm.
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So for a lot of businesses, they can have a Swiss website
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and an international website.
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Mm-hmm.
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That is okay.
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But as you have stated, since 2022, Switzerland prohibits geo blocking or
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blocking or forcing your Swiss clients to just go to the Swiss website.
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Why?
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Because most of the time the Swiss website is more, more expensive.
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Right?
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Mm-hmm.
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So this is, uh, what is being prohibited there.
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Yeah.
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You are not prohibited from creating two websites with different terms.
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What is being prohibited is you actually restricting people from, so from choosing.
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So if you have two websites, you have to let the, the, your clients choose which
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website you're going to actually use.
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Mm-hmm.
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So in this case what, what usually happens?
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How are you going to fix this?
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Is you need to have different terms for your, for your two different websites.
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So for example, for your international website, you can say that we do not
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deliver to Swiss address if you use this website, right, that is okay.
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You have different terms.
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What is not okay is you automatically.
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Steering blocking people and, restricting them from using that website.
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Mm-hmm.
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So it depends on your consumer.
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Right?
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If they're going to use that website, how will that thing be delivered to them?
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Right.
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Right.
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They have to think about it.
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It's not your problem to make a decision.
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Yes.
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But at least you gave them the choice.
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Right.
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Right.
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Of using that website.
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Okay.
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So that is when we were talking about geo blocking then or geotagging,
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that is the main concern that you need to really think about.
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Okay.
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Super.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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A
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few more here and then we're, we'll start wrapping up.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Marketing claims and testimonials.
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Especially testimonials.
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Yes.
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Because I know that's a big thing that we talk about for helping
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with the value perception.
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Yes.
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And credibility.
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Mm-hmm.
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Also, the marketing claims that people make.
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So like I teach a lot about value and work with my clients on understanding value.
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Mm-hmm.
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And often they're afraid to put any sort of, um, let's say concrete value
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statements on mm-hmm their website or in their marketing materials.
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And so I'm curious, what do we need to watch out for in this area?
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So number one is using the word guaranteed.
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Mm-hmm.
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I always see this.
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The thing is, if you use the word guaranteed mm-hmm.
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You are opening yourself to a lot of legal drama.
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Why?
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Because you cannot guarantee anything.
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Mm-hmm.
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Even if you are the best coach, even if you are the best business owner mm-hmm.
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Results will always depend on your clients, their situation, their efforts.
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These are the things that are beyond your control.
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Mm-hmm.
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And if it's beyond your control, you cannot promise it.
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Right.
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That's number one.
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Another thing is I often see promises like you will double your earnings or you will
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have more clients, or X clients at least.
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Mm-hmm.
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Okay?
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Mm-hmm.
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Having this specific words like double or ex clients, it's almost
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like you are guaranteeing it.
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Mm-hmm.
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So I go back to my previous statement.
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If it is, sounds like you are guaranteeing it mm-hmm.
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Then it's going to be a problem.
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Correct.
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So I think the base here is that you should have alignment all over
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your words, what your policies say.
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Mm-hmm.
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And what people think should all match.
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Because if there is a mismatch there, there is misalignment.
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This will always lead to legal drama.
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But anyway marketing is also a whole universe.
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We can talk it in a separate episode.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But that's something that you need to really mm-hmm.
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Really think about.
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If it is something that you, you know, people think as a guarantee
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mm-hmm.
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Remove it.
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Okay.
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Because you cannot guarantee anything.
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Okay.
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That's a great rule of thumb.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Like that.
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Okay.
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Okay, so one, one more question here before we wrap this up.
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Mm-hmm.
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What's mm-hmm one or two simple legal hygiene checks you think every business
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should be doing on their pricing page?
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Yeah, so I think that question is really important because
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it will help us summarize the discussion that we had so far.
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So.
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If we are talking about hygiene checks, I'd like you to ask
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yourself just two questions.
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First is, am I really being transparent?
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And I've discussed transparency a while ago.
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If you have consumers as clients, is the price stated on
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your website the final price?
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No surprises during the checkout or credit card statement.
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If you are giving a discount, for example, is this a real or a fake discount?
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If you are offering several currencies, you need to make sure that the amount
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that you state is the amount that you actually paid, and that means that you
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need to build your checkout in such a way that it respects your stated prices.
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Instead of just relying solely on your platforms Fluctuating
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currency conversion Now.
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If the relationship is B2B, in most cases, you will have to enter into a
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separate contract and what is stated on your Pricing page is just an estimate.
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So transparency here requires that you have to make sure that you have
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a contract that clearly state the fees to be paid, what is included,
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what is not included, as well as the fees in case of extra services.
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So the best way to test transparency, in my opinion it's by recruiting a
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third person to read your website or your contract because it is
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possible that you may have missed something or you think it is clear,
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but for a third person it is not.
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That is transparency.
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The second thing that you need to ask yourself is if there is a question or a
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dispute about Pricing do the policies on my website or my terms in, in my contract,
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for example, actually back me up.
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And when I say policies, I mean your terms and conditions, your refund
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and cancellation rules, all of it.
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You see, it's not just about simply having policies.
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It is about whether they are legally aligned with the laws, where you are,
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where your consumers are located, as well as whether they are aligned with
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what you actually do in practice.
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You see, I know that, um, a lot of you know, my audience and even you.
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Heard me talk about legal alignment all the time because I really
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believe that without it, you cannot set real boundaries, including
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boundaries around your Pricing.
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And every so often it is these very small inconsistencies between your
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terms, your policies, and your processes that will turn a simple Pricing
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question into a full blown drama.
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So two things, transparency and legal alignment.
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Okay.
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What's a common misconception about pricing and the law
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that you'd love to clear up?
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It's, I said this a while ago.
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Okay.
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Most people say that if you have higher prices, you will have less clients.
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This is not true.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's the same thing with being legally compliant.
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People think that if you have all of these website policies and you have
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really good contracts, people will run away because they think you're so serious
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or you know, they cannot deal with you.
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No pricing and legal they should be used as how you set your boundaries.
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Mm-hmm.
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It can sift your clients.
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This is a way by which you will be able to, to have more
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clients that value your work.
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Mm-hmm.
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Super.
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I love it.
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Alright.
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What's next for you and your business in terms of growth?
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Or do you have any special projects coming down the pipeline
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you'd like to share with us?
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Well, for now I'm really focusing more on building trust.
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Mm-hmm.
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So not really just legal legal, but more legal in business and how you can use
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it in order to build a legally aligned businesses that clients will trust.
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Mm-hmm.
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Because I really feel that, we are now in the AI world and trust
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is the currency in this world.
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So I'm more focusing on how can you use trust to, for you to stand out.
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Mm-hmm.
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And being not drowned in a sea of lookalikes.
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So that is the next thing for, for my business right now still.
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You know, using legal, I'm still there.
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Legal empowerment, but more using legal empowerment to build trust.
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To build
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trust.
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Ooh, I love that.
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And since you brought it up, I'm gonna sneak one more question in here.
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Go ahead.
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So you talked about AI and I think it was actually from you, I heard that we have
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the first AI laws coming into Yes, yes.
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Coming to life.
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And you know, just one last tip for people.
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You know, what.
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What do they need to be aware of as these laws come in and do you have
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any resources you can share with them?
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Yes.
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So in the EU we already have the EU AI Act.
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Mm-hmm.
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Which, was already enforced this year, and the enforcement will
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continue, there will be enforcement this year and next year as well.
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Mm-hmm.
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And of course, because it is, uh, started by the eu, we can always
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be sure that Switzerland and other countries will also follow suit.
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So what they need to remember about AI is mm-hmm.
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We go back to transparency.
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Mm-hmm.
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If you are using AI in your systems, if AI is touching your, your
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client's data, for example, you need to be transparent about it.
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And when we are saying touching, it's not, only when you, you know, you,
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you put your, your client's data in chat, GPT, it's not just like that.
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Mm-hmm.
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When you, um, use softwares or applications, for example,
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you use notion, you jot notes.
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Mm-hmm.
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Most likely than not, AI is already touching on those data.
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Yeah.
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And I'm not saying that you don't use AI.
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You can, but you can use it responsibly.
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Mm-hmm.
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And you should be transparent on how you use it.
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That's the bottom line here.
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Now we are still, you know, all of these laws are still evolving, but at least
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for small business owners, this is, uh, the, the main, the, the baseline.
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You need to be transparent when you are using ai.
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Mm-hmm.
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And by that, it means in your, your privacy policy that yes, you
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have the right things in there, is.
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So you need to be, that's what you're talking about.
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Yeah, exactly.
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You need to be transparent.
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So not only on your privacy policies mm-hmm.
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In your terms, you have to mention when you are using AI
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in your disclaimers as well.
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Right.
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So basically if you have website, you need to have a trust section
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there, trust section where, and you, you really say how you are using
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and protecting your client's data.
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Right.
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And part of it is ai.
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Yes.
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So, you know, the data protection and AI laws, they are converging.
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Mm-hmm.
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And we can see that more and more these, these two laws are, are
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becoming more important and mm-hmm.
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They are borrowing terms from each other.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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That's fantastic.
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Do you have a resource you'd
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like
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to share
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with us?
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Well, yes.
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So if they have at least five minutes, I would invite them to go to,
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www.thelegallyaffluentacademy.com/quiz.
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This is a very short self audit quiz.
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And by doing it.
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You'll be able to know if you have gaps in your business.
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Mm-hmm.
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And if you are trust ready by 2026.
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That is one resources they can use.
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It's so fast.
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Just five minutes, you'll know what is lacking in your business.
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Okay.
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I love it.
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We'll put that link in the show notes.
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Yes.
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So, Vena, one last question.
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Go ahead.
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Before we go, where can re people reach out if they wanna find out
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more about how to work with you?
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So you can find me in LinkedIn, Instagram, the handle is the same
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for all my social media accounts.
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It's Legally She Can.
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We'll be sure to put that it's in the show notes
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as well.
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Yes.
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My website, my, my social media is the same.
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Legally She Can.
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Makes it simple.
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Yes.
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Excellent.
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Well, thank you so much for coming on the show with me today.
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It's been a real pleasure and I know the audience is gonna love this and
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we're all learning so much from you.
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Thank you very much.
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Thank you so much for inviting me and having me here.
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My pleasure.
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Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Pricing Lady Podcast.
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I wish you all the best.
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Remember, be transparent, build trust, and as always, enjoy Pricing.
