In the season finale of Frogmore Stew, Grace connects with her longtime friend, Ken Block, from Sister Hazel. They reminisce about their early days in the music industry and discuss the impactful song 'Change Your Mind.' They delve into themes of personal battles, the importance of resetting, and the power of perception. Ken shares his experiences with the band's enduring approachability, the importance of authentic connections, and navigating political and social issues with empathy. The episode concludes with insights into Ken's personal struggles with his voice, the significance of giving oneself grace, and the value of meditation and community in turbulent times.
00:00 Introduction and Season Finale
00:15 Meet Ken Block: Longtime Bestie and Musician
00:51 The Story Behind 'Change Your Mind'
03:05 The Impact of Music and Lyrics
04:54 Navigating Band Dynamics and Personal Growth
08:47 Politics, Religion, and Staying United
14:45 Mental Health and Self-Care Tips
20:15 Ken's Voice Struggles and Personal Reflections
So, Katelyn and I did our last episode of this season of Second Helping last week. And today I'm doing my last Frogmore Stew of 2024 with somebody you might already know. When I began my career in the music business, it was the mid nineties, and I was super green. And I met all kinds of interesting people. But a few of them have not only become some of my closest friends, they've also influenced who I have become as a person. And one of those is my longtime bestie, Ken Block of the band Sister Hazel.
Ken Block:
Hey, Grace, look at us.
Grace:
One of the things that we always talked about is we need our own show.
Ken Block:
We need the Grace and Ken show.
Grace:
Ding, ding. Grace and Ken show. Yes.
Ken Block:
We're there. We did it.
Grace:
We did it. Okay, you're working on a project that I'm actually super, super pumped about. Cause in this season of looking back at your life, You have a song that I think is really important.
Grace:
It's a song that I always go back to when I'm in a big decision. It's called change your mind. Can you tell us about it?
Ken Block:
I have struggled with all kinds of things in my life just like everybody else, right?
Grace:
Yep.
Ken Block:
And I wrote that song because I understood very well that perception is our reality, that it's not our life, it's how we choose to look at our life. I kept that in my head, but I couldn't always feel it.
Ken Block:
So I started to write, change your mind as a mantra. If you want to be somebody else, change your mind. If you're tired of fighting battles with yourself, change your mind. And that is what we do, we're our own worst enemy.
Grace:
Talk about the battles in my head. Holy moly. Exactly, right? It's like the committee wakes up before I do in there, right? Who am I? I wake up, right? I wake up and there's like already been a meeting going on.
Ken Block:
And so it's a matter of having, for me, I feel like I have really smart, great parents, but I believe things have happened to me along the way where my default settings are not correct, so I fall back into things that are not necessarily in my best interest, so I have to hit reset. Like my mom said, look, you don't have to wait till the end of the day if you're having a bad day, you can hit reset anytime. So I have to hit reset. Because of my default settings popping out of place. And so that was what that song was about it was supposed to be in a movie called Bedazzled. Title track, and started hearing it a little bit, and I started to get these emails from people, and in our Hazelnut chat room, about how people went, hey, that song, It got me to finally open a restaurant I wanted to open.
Ken Block:
I've always wanted to do, or I got out of an abusive relationship that was really hard to get out of. Or I looked into sobriety and people have been telling me for a while, I need to take a look at that. And I started going, what? And so out of all the songs that I've written to know that there is one that has meant that kind of, leverage for people to move in a direction, really good.
Grace:
I will. I think the line that resonates with so many people is if you're tired of fighting battles with yourself,
Grace:
cause it's, that's who we fight our biggest battles with. It's did that person like me? Do I look okay? Am I qualified? Am I in over my head?
Grace:
It's totally, it's you. That's your, that you're fighting the battles with. Not anyone else.
Grace:
It's like such a, an impactful way to say, just stop what you're doing and take a different path. To make a huge difference and in your life.
Ken Block:
you can begin to respond instead of react.
Grace:
Okay. There's another song to World Inside My Head that I think goes, with change your mind, because I think, you were in a particular headspace when you wrote that song, but again, the ambiguity of it, people are able to apply their own stuff.
Grace:
And that song is basically about how you see yourself inside your head versus how you think people perceive you. And that song is really important too, because it's a. pretty deep message with very simple words. And so it's another way at the end of the year when you're taking stock of your life of God, if you could only see who I am inside my head, you would like me so much better.
Ken Block:
I would not be misunderstood.
Grace:
Yeah.
Ken Block:
All those scars and all those little cracks and all those spots. Those are the places that we connect. It's not where we're all shiny and perfect and slick. That's where we bounce off of each other, right?
Grace:
And I think that's what, why people resonate with music so much is because writers have this great skill to take things that people feel, but don't know how to put into words. And so when they hear those words, It's in music as it's, it is a mantra and you, so you get to sing it to yourself in a way that verbalizes exactly what you're feeling. And that's like a really true gift to have.
Ken Block:
Thank you for saying that. I will say I'm not young, right? I grew up listening to a lot of singer songwriters, like Simon and Garfunkel, and, Office Hills and Nash, and John Denver, and James Taylor.
Ken Block:
Harmonies and storytelling. When I got into high school in the mid 80s there, it was Van Halen and Judas Priest and all the bands I was in was like, Southern rock and all that stuff. When I decided to form Sister Hazel,
Ken Block:
it was coming out of grudge. Like the early 90s, very dark, real jam, yeah, real jam, it was pretty dark, but A lot of it stayed there, and I don't want to just, I don't, I'm not right about painful things. I'm not right about, challenges that we all go through. I don't not write about heartbreak, feeling misunderstood.
Ken Block:
I want to. And it's a lot easier for me to write about difficult things than, happier things. But at the very end of that, I don't want to stay there. I don't want to stay in that. So I take out my little salt shaker of optimism, and I will dust a little bit of optimism, and I will acknowledge these things that we all go through, and like you said, all these things.
Ken Block:
I will try to sprinkle hope and optimism so that I don't leave it there. So coming out Of that grunge where, there was, there were bands like us and Counting Crows or Dave Matthews or, where we talked about some of these things, but we also said we can still have a good time dealing with some seriously good stuff and bridge the gap between the poets and the partiers,
Grace:
yeah. Don't let there be a behind the music on Sister Hazel. You would give Metallica a run for their money.
Ken Block:
That's so funny. We partied pretty good. We did pretty
Grace:
good.
Ken Block:
But I will say one thing about our group, you're never, ever malicious people.
Ken Block:
We had a great time colored outside the lines a little bit. We were never, ever mean or malicious, in any way, shape or form. In fact, I think we lean on each other. We uplifted others and we still continue to do that.
Grace:
And I would say that throughout your career, even when All4U was Like a huge hit song
Grace:
One of the things that has made your band enduring is that Every single one of you are approachable, there has never been a day where any person who is a fan of your music or wants to meet you Does not find that they can approach you and have a conversation and in my experience of working with many different bands that is something that definitely distinguishes your band from Many others
Ken Block:
we wanted to tear down the wall between fans and the band and go, we don't want it to be about a song or a lyric, we want it to be about a relationship. We want it to be about experiences. And so making ourselves accessible, having real conversations, is important. It's our life. It's not just about, maybe it's a mystique mistake. I don't know. Maybe it was a mistake, but I don't think the mystique worked for us, I think. Being authentic and being real and remembering people's names and stories and what they're going through.
Ken Block:
The band will give me a little grief because I'll go out after shows and I'll talk to people every show. You never leave.
Grace:
You never leave. I'm ready to talk, right? There were, there have been a million times that I can attest to that I'm like, we gotta get on the bus and go, and you're like, what, you're still five people, right?
Grace:
One more minute. One more minute. We're like, we gotta go. Yeah, you never leave
Ken Block:
says, look, if you're a band, you've missed anniversaries. Missed birthdays. You're on the run a lot. sometimes it gets difficult, and somebody goes, Hey man, this song you wrote got me through this difficult time.
Ken Block:
You tell me that story, I go, maybe I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
Ken Block:
So I do get, it is a two way street, it is a two way dialogue and conversation and relationship. And I think for us, that's worked authentically and honestly.
Grace:
This is a political podcast this has been in the back of my head from the beginning of this podcast is how much time I have spent with you and your bandmates in tight quarters with nothing to do, but talk for hours and hours and also watch almost famous.
Grace:
Yes. And I don't believe that ever in the course of our working experience or even in later years, did any of us ever really talk about politics? Like I had no idea. I still really don't know what everyone's politics in the band are And I think that we're on a text chain of like some of our tight knit friends and I do know that in the last couple of years politics has Inched its way into our text thread and we've gotten through it but I also think you have an interesting take about how You With different perspectives that range widely, how you have been able to, as a band, work together, live together, sing together, and still be friends and still as a successful organization
Ken Block:
together for 30 years, I'm very proud of the fact that we've remained a band. It comes down to politics or religion. We have vastly different views, as far as you can get. When we are talking about politics or religion.
Ken Block:
So what we've learned is there are certain hot button issues we steer clear of. We go, let's look at each other and say, how are we treating each other? The crew? How are we treating our fans? How are we treating the house crews, production, buyers, promoters, a day to day basis, And I think we can look at each other and go, we're all nice guys doing this together, so not only do we do life together, but we write together, we live together, we run a business together, we run a philanthropy together, and we have learned there are certain things we steer clear of. And if it's not going to matter in six months, never mind six days or six minutes, let it go.
Ken Block:
Check your ego at the door when it comes to songs or part of a song, defer to the songwriter. It doesn't mean you don't interject. It means that you go, you brought in this song. This is what I think, but I'm going to defer to you. How can I best serve the song?
Ken Block:
How can we best serve the event? How can we best serve our fans? And so We've been able to make it through and we don't ever post about politics or religion. Here's why I'm to post my beliefs That reflects upon everybody else, and if someone else goes there, it reflects upon me, and I would not want that to be the case. There are times I have felt cowardly for not jumping into things. There are a couple of things that I have jumped into, one of which, is race. I feel very strongly about some racial issues, but I never jump into pointing fingers. I jump into education, for instance. My town of Gainesville, Florida did not fully integrate. Until 1972 in public schools, which meant that every kid of color I went with, none of their parents went to school with white kids. So that's something, it's just an educational piece for everybody to get perspective on.
Grace:
And that shouldn't be political. It should not be
Ken Block:
political. Something I'm going to say to you is, I guess this is going to be a little political, but I'm going to say it because this is how I feel. We have things like first responders and police and then we have Black Lives Matter and racial issues.
Ken Block:
Why can't I be supportive of my police and first responders? And why can't I be a supporter of race relations and say that we have a long way to go? Why can't I look at people in each of those communities Just like I would look at somebody in my band who's not holding up their end of the bargain and go, we can be better. hope that's where we can all meet where you don't have to pick a side where you can acknowledge the complexities of issues, without saying, I'm gonna take my ball and go home and not interact with this person or make them any money anymore. That's an easy thing to do. I mean I’m just being honest, but yeah I have to look at how they treat people in their daily life. How do they behave? Are they kind to people?
Grace:
I think, we learned like we've referenced this text thread that we have. And it's one of my favorite things it's really funny. I agree. It fuels us.
Grace:
But there have been over the last couple of years, some very tense moments and literally not over anything that mattered. And I think that like we came out of it, it was like, why are we doing, what, why is everyone fighting? Why is everyone taking their ball and going home?
Grace:
That's exactly the perfect way to describe it. And I think like what we've realized is that one, our history is. Bigger than
Grace:
the current like political scene is. And we know who we are.
Ken Block:
People that come to mind for me.
Ken Block:
One, it's on that chain. Two, we're in my.
Grace:
I know exactly what you're talking about.
Ken Block:
We do not see eye to eye. On, on politics, spirituality, no. Any one of them would take a bullet from me.
Grace:
Yeah, for sure.
Ken Block:
Like literally take a bullet from me and that has to matter.
Grace:
Yeah.
Ken Block:
And so if I'm mad we're never going to, change minds by a tweet, we're never going to change minds by a Facebook post, because the only way we ever get people to wiggle is by them watching your behavior, seeing how you act and how you treat people.
Ken Block:
Oh my gosh. You're not going to believe this
Grace:
we just had a surprise guest. Hello Tracy. There's the ear
Grace:
tell us what we should all do to make our next year peaceful?
Tracy:
Meditate daily. Even five, 10 minutes. There are a couple of little meditations that I just worked on with the kids and there, it's literally like a two minute meditation of deep breathing to regroup. And you're supposed to set reminders on your phone and do it a few times a day. And regroup your vibe.
Grace:
And how about in what feels like a very tumultuous political landscape coming up in this next year. How do you, mentally get through this
Tracy:
finding like minded people? Meditating daily and regrouping when you can, it's a secret to everything.
Tracy:
And I think, staying active with like minded communities. And did you say exercise? Is that what you meant? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, exercise for sure. For sure. Yep. And, being able to detach when things get heated when you find yourself having huge emotional reactions, to anything, being able to, Regroup, adjust, like a bonsai tree, snip off the parts you do not want
Grace:
okay, there's your gardening tip for the day too, Tracy, here with some mental and gardening tips. Yes, my black thumb I have. Yep, I have a brown thumb, so there's my gardening tips for bonsais. Okay, amazing. All right. So I have one last thing to ask Ken, and then Yeah. You got it girl, Tracy, I'm so happy that we got a little tidbit of the deep seated part of Ken's mind that he doesn't always bring you
Grace:
Okay, so last thing that I wanna talk about is you, and I think this sort of goes in line with like where we are as we get older. 'cause I think this . Particular, message has always resonated with me too.
Ken Block:
Watch the sunset on the West coast and then drive through the night and watch it rise on the East
Grace:
To me, that's like such a metaphor of life in general, that you're always trying to chase something that's literally going in circles.
Grace:
And to me, It's great to do that because you're chasing something that you love, but it's also really important to stop in the moment and appreciate where you are. And that is to me, like my mantra for next year is to chase the things that I love, but also live in the moment and appreciate the surroundings.
Ken Block:
Isn't there a quote that's like where you're planted, like you have the things around you that you need.
Ken Block:
Yeah. You
Ken Block:
have certain people you have, nature, that's one thing Casey didn't talk about, but we are so locked in our digital worlds now.
Ken Block:
And, and we are dopamine, serotonin junkies. I'm guilty of that as anybody, but, I went out, I go outside and I go, everything I look at that's beautiful was not made by man.
Grace:
Yeah.
Ken Block:
Everything out here that's blowing me away, like the veins and the leaves, like the way that river carves through there, or
Grace:
yeah.
Ken Block:
All of it was not made by man. Dolphins. Dolphins. Yeah. My uncle says that any day you see a dolphin is a good day.
Ken Block:
I read a line in a Hemingway book where, it was the old man on the sea. And he. Anytime a bird flew by, he would say, how old are you, bird? Every time I see a bird now, I look at it and I go, how old are you, bird? I don't have these weird things that I do. I think getting outside, unplugging, and, I do think plugging in though, like she said, Tracy said, to like your podcast or like our thread. Plugging into like minded communities make us feel not isolated and alone. Remember, political people out there, that we're still a 51 49 country, like it doesn't feel like it, but if you look at these numbers in different places,
Ken Block:
that is one of my big things. I think the misinformation on any side is unkind and it is damaging and it is dangerous.
Grace:
Yeah.
Ken Block:
I want to go back to something. May I?
Grace:
Okay. Yeah, of course.
Ken Block:
I had a friend of mine who happens to be a fan of the man, who has worked in kind of corporate America for years.
Ken Block:
And about 10 years ago, one of my good friends, Dave Neal, co wrote a book called Change Your Mind. It was about the song, but it was more about, he wrote corporate trainings, but he hated the corporate world. And so he said, why don't we make a book about getting from where we are to where we want to go and taking those steps and how do we stay the course?
Ken Block:
When we wrote that book 10 years ago, there was a different world. so we self published it, put it out, sold out, and then we forgot about it this person came and said, hey, I'm in this world now, and I think I know how we can uplift this. On to a platform where it is fun, accessible, you already have it written out and you can come in with these anecdotes and real world experience and change your mind is now going to be something you're building into a platform.
Grace:
You
Ken Block:
can get on your goals, small or large, little leaps, small steps, and we can help take you through it. And we're going to get it up online this year.
Grace:
So that's like a great start to 2025 is get the book. Change your mind.
Ken Block:
Yeah.
Grace:
So your voice is not great right now. You're working through it, but you're working
Ken Block:
to think all muscle tension, dysphonia. He went and took over. Um, as a Pam, we took over, took over. That sounds like we're hostile.
Ken Block:
You talked to the village in Honduras a few years ago.
Ken Block:
We went down there for a couple of weeks. We built a feeding center, fresh water, and I got three super bugs in my lungs.
Ken Block:
It took a year and a half to clear up and it has taken a toll on my voice and to sing and to talk, I developed this disorder called muscle tension dysphonia.
Ken Block:
as a lead singer, it's not a great thing. So I'm up and down. When I get excited, it gets worse. So I'm excited to be talking to you, Grace, but I'm working through it. I have some days that are better than others. It has been a swift kick in the ego so I have learned, that a person's success is in direct proportion with their ability to ask for help. And so I've taken some time, to talk to some therapists and to talk to some people, who are experts in this field. It is a very difficult thing to overcome.
Grace:
Yeah.
Ken Block:
For me, it's trauma. It's trauma, right? Yeah, for sure. So it's been humbling. It has been like, what's the lesson in a year?
Grace:
Yeah,
Ken Block:
I am really want to get authentic about it.
Ken Block:
I think I really want to talk about it. I want to talk about how hard it's been. I want to talk about, being good enough to entertain, but is it good enough for me? Sometimes it's not. I have to go, what do I want to do with this? Is a fan good enough, are the fans happy with this? I think I want to be honest and authentic and talk to people about it.
Grace:
And at the same time, you have a band that is dependent on your voice. And so there's, it's not just about you. It's about like your best friends and my
Ken Block:
crew and my management, my agents,
Grace:
everybody. Yeah.
Ken Block:
Yeah. Working on it. And, I'm like, my God, really my voice. That's what you took. And it's something I've got to figure out
Grace:
for sure. And I think that, like if anyone Has the ability to take something negative and turn it into a positive and Give that as a gift to everyone else. You are that person.
Ken Block:
I will tell you that I think about you a lot because of this what I'm about to say One of the things I'm not very good at for myself. Especially with perfectionism around my voice at giving myself any grace. And so I think about you a lot.
Ken Block:
I think about that word a lot, what it means and how hard I am on myself when maybe I need to be more graceful with myself. And what the band guides tell me is, you're not just your voice. You bring all these things to all these people and you co founded the rock boat, which is going into 25 years. What festival goes into 25 years, right? Hazelnut hang, this book, change your mind.
Grace:
Yeah.
Ken Block:
All these different things. So maybe. I have to convince myself that I'm more than just my voice.
Ken Block:
And I have to get better at my voice. I've got to work at it. I also have to embrace the things that I'm a dad.
Ken Block:
I'm a communicator. I'm an entertainer. I'm a friend. And husband and son. I'm a caretaker for my mom and mom. Who's amazing. You should go on and see
Grace:
Judy.
Ken Block:
I just did a great interview with my mom and she can check it out. So I'm up to age anyway, my goal in 2025 to give myself some grace as I'm moving through these things, I love it.
Ken Block:
There you are.
Grace:
Hey! Hey! You've got battles, fighting battles with yourself. Yeah, with myself. Exactly. Ken, I love you. so much for being on here. This was so fun and what a great way to end our season. Thanks so much.
Ken Block:
I can't thank you enough for having me. I can't thank you enough for being in my life. You've been, you are just a key person in my life. You've seen me in many different phases of my life. We have gone through, pre marriage, pre kids, pre success, pre-America, whatever, what's going on here. And we still love each other and we're learning from each other. Pre therapy. You're all these crazy things, lots of therapy. And I can't wait to see you next.
