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Parenting, Playrooms, and Perspective: Wrapping Up Ashley’s Story
Episode 8 • 10th May 2024 • No Shame In The Home Game • Joyful Support Movement
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In this episode of 'No Shame in the Home Game,' hosts Lacey and Sara discuss the intricacies of making a home feel comforting through small changes and embracing imperfections, with a focus on wallpaper choices reflecting personal style. They explore the concept of trying new things without fear of permanence, emphasizing life's evolving chapters. The discussion transitions into parenting, particularly around teaching children about responsibility and ownership through managing their play spaces. They share personal anecdotes about involving kids in household tasks, aiming to instill life skills rather than perfection. Additionally, they touch upon the importance of adapting parenting styles to nurture independence and the joy of seeing children adopt taught behaviors. The conversation also highlights the significance of friends, reflecting on past connections and the beauty of rekindling friendships that resonate with personal growth. The episode encapsulates a journey of accepting oneself, one's home, and one's family, reinforcing the message that true joy comes from embracing life's imperfections and finding gratitude in everyday moments.

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Transcripts

Lacey:

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares

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how your home feels, not looks.

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I am Laci, your co host in, I don't

even know right now, in compliments.

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I'm, Sarah and I were

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just talking about compliments.

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here with, one of my favorite

complimenters, my co host Sarah.

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Hi, Sarah.

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Sara: Lacey, I want to

celebrate how my house is.

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Or not my house, my office

specifically, feels.

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I think we mentioned

the wallpaper last time.

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I finally got enough

wallpaper, finished the wall.

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And now when I look in my little

screen of myself, makes me so happy.

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It just feels so warm and comforting

and it's everything I wanted.

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So I really worked on

the feels these past two

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Lacey: Look at you leaning into it.

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I also love that you like took little

things that you're like, I like

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this cause you took inspiration from

my wallpaper, but found one that

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felt more like you and like just

pulled in what made you feel good.

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I love it.

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Sara: Again, so much of my decisions

are on the back of your intrepidness.

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When I think wallpaper, I think permanent.

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And then you were so insisted,

no, it's just peel and stick.

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No, you can just lift it right back up.

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No, it's not hard.

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And I was like, Oh, okay.

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So I can do wallpaper without it

being like a lifelong commitment.

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, Oh, let's try this.

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even with my office, I keep trying things

and I'm like, Oh, I'm not getting married.

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I'm just trying things and

everything's an evolution.

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We say that in the podcast,

it's for a chapter in your life.

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Lacey: For sure.

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If there's anything that I'm good

at, it's yeah, let's just try it.

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rubbing off on you in a positive way.

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Sometimes, it's not always positive.

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We were hanging a swing in our yard

on a tree and we'll just say, poor

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Joe did not like my let's try it ness.

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Sara: Did anyone get

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Lacey: No, no one got hurt.

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No one got hurt.

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He just.

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was not happy with the process,

which, I don't blame him.

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But, because I'm like one of those

people that's let's MacGyver this, right?

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what rope do we have?

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Do we have a string?

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perfect example, one of our wreaths

for Christmas, it's to this day

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still has old headphones as the

thing that hangs it up on the wall.

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that's what I used to create, the hanger.

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And I was like, yeah, that's what

I had at the time, that's what

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I needed, and it still works.

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Let's move on.

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Sara: love that.

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I see that as like a

reuse, reduce, recycle.

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I'm like, yeah, you had it and it

worked and you got to reuse something.

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That's awesome.

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Lacey: makes me giggle,

too, whenever we get it out.

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I'm like, oh, there's the headphones.

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, anyway, we are, we're wrapping

up Ashley's story today.

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This blows my mind that

we're already here.

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And again, this is another one of those

where Laci was sick, I wasn't there.

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Ashley and Sarah's final

episode is a, duo, not a trio.

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but I think what has been interesting

for me about Ashley's journey,

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and I know I've said this before,

is that it's about the tweaks.

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It's about the details.

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She's someone that can change.

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In my mind has it all together,

but doesn't feel like it because of

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these lingering tweaks and details.

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Sara: Yes, and highlighting what I just

said a few minutes ago about it being

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about different chapters in your life.

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It's her toy room with four

kids, four different ages.

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At one point, everything in

there was dictated by choking

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hazards and that's changed, right?

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And so it's evolving with the

different ages, which is a lot of work.

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And one of the things I will compare and

contrast with Ashley's episode versus

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Tom's Tyra and Teresa's was much more

concrete steps and Ashley's was a little

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bit more, I was going to say global,

but that feels like corporate speak.

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Lacey: Are we gonna circle back on it?

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Sara: circle back, it's a little bit

more talking about the principle of

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going through things, about teaching

kids ownership, , we discuss a little

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bit more of those moments where as

a parent, you're trying to show them

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how to do it, but not do it for them.

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And so I really like this

discussion because it highlights.

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All that part about parenting that

you didn't realize you were signing

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up for when you become a parent and

you're like, Oh, parenting is all these

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little things that we have to decide.

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Are we keeping these?

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Are we throwing these away?

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How much stuff are we

going to have in the house?

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So we do discuss it a little bit more

on a larger topic, which I always enjoy.

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Lacey: Awesome sauce.

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let's jump on in to Ashley episode

3 and Wrap up Ashley's story.

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Mhm.

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Track 1: Welcome, Ashley.

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We've got episode three, no shame in

the home game to talk about your kid's

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playroom and hear how that's been going.

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But as we know, life happens, so

we can really catch up on just

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whatever's on your mind, to be honest,

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

I love it.

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Well, I'm excited to be back.

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It's going to be weird when

I don't hang out with you um,

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anymore on a monthly basis.

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But, we'll just have to keep that

going outside of the podcast.

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Track 1: I was going to say, I'm

always up for conversation with

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you, no matter what that looks like.

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So yeah, we could totally keep this up.

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I love hearing your point of view

and honestly, your sense of humor

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is so unique that I really savor it.

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Dark and twisted sometimes?

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A little dry?

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Track 1: You don't get a lot of

people with that dry sense of humor.

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I grew up watching British comedy

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Oh yeah.

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Track 1: you really have to shift

your mindset to that kind of humor.

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so When you lay it out there,

my brain is like, ping, ping,

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did that come from your family of origin?

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Or did you feel like the black sheep of

your family with that sense of humor?

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

no, it's totally, it's

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totally my family of origin.

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It is the, it's the Canadian in me.

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a different style of humor.

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Very dry.

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and yeah, it's definitely

like I watch British TV and

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it feels like a family reunion

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,

Track 1: I had a totally different sense of humor than my family growing up.

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And so British comedy was the first

time where I'm like, Oh, there

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are other ways to be funny besides

with the people I'm surrounded by.

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It, it really called to me.

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So yeah, when I hang out with you,

I'm like, oh yeah, there it is.

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That feels good.

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That feels really good.

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

I hope I can live up to it.

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Try my best.

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Pull out my material.

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Track 1: just be you, just

be, it'd be interesting to see

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what your kid's sense of humor.

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Oh, yeah.

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Track 1: Is it like yours?

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Especially my son.

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my son is nine, and he has the sense

of humor of, a 40 year old man.

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but, It's awesome.

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when my kids were babies, again,

like this is how I talk all the time.

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I might swear less when I know that lots

of people are listening, but generally

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speaking, it's all, this is what it is.

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And so when my kids were really

little and I would just like

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monologue my day kind of thing.

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And.

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like my son was like one or whatever.

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I'd be like someday you will appreciate

how hilarious I am right and he's

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like snack, but he's so fast and I

love it because he'll like go through

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the room as I'm like saying something

and Chuckle to himself and then walk

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away and I'm like, ah It's happened

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Track 1: too have been saying for years to

my son, one day you're going to understand

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how funny of a household you grow up in.

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Like you're going to realize not

everyone's household was this funny.

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And yeah, I know my son too.

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He's 11 now.

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he likes to listen to comedians, which

is really tough because a lot of comedic

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material is not age appropriate for

an elementary kid, but oh my gosh, he

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likes to spout out like other comedians.

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Stuff but put his own twist

on it and yeah, same thing.

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I'm like, okay I feel like I've peaked

as a parent now that my kid is walking

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around He's he did a joke this morning.

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It's the voice of a Kennedy

at dinner I can't do it.

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It was like don't ask what cream

corn can do for you ask It's like

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this whole thing, but anyway, so

yeah, I'm right there with you.

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We were like, this is my goal as a parent

is to impart comedic wisdom to my child.

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

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Oh my gosh.

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It's awesome.

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Track 1: so the reason we're here,

when you came to us, we zeroed in on.

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Helping your kids manage

their own playroom.

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I love that you had the mindset

of these are their items.

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This is their space.

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Like I want to guide them, but I'm

not going to do it for them, which I

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thought is Man, I just, I want more

parents to impart that onto their little

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ones because they need to learn how

to do that and giving them ownership

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over a space I think is just so great.

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but you wanted to make sure that items

were getting rotated out if they're not

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being played with, that they're broken,

making sure that things are applicable.

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So we had come up with a general

plan of seeing stuff in the

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playroom as categories and then

piggybacking onto your Sunday morning.

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Routine of sheets and pick up and

cleaning and giving them a few minutes

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to pick a category and go through it.

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Tell me where did you have a

conversation with your family?

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Did that ever come up?

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Did you try something different?

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No wrong answers

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

yeah.

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Definitely conversations were had.

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Definitely pushback was,

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abrupt.

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But it's not, like I was saying

before, it's not like this is new.

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my, my kids push back on

changing their sheets.

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Not all of them, but some of

them push back on changing

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their sheets on the weekends.

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And so it's just that's

really par for the course.

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it's, I feel like, in the same

vein, if I was like, okay, guys,

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now we are going to pick a category

and we are going to go through and

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you were going to throw stuff out.

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And they were like, okay, mom,

that sounds like a great idea.

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I'd be like, wait, what?

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when does the other shoe drop?

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like in those comedy, then those

cartoons where somebody yells and all

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the windows get blown out of the house.

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I was like, no, I am

not lined up for this.

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I think that the idea of putting the

expectation out there and then it's like

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a gradual adoption of said expectation

is really important because I doubt,

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highly doubt, and maybe it's just me

and my life, but I highly doubt that

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anything that you put out that is

seemingly a drastic change for your kids

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is going to be received well, unless

it's, we're having ice cream for dinner.

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Because it's just, is what it is.

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kids like, they like their routine,

and they like their stuff, and also,

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in their play space, I have made the

mistake in the past of going through and

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picking up a bunch of blocks that are

on the floor, only to realize that, I

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took the unicorns, space and now there's

no place to put the gnome and there's

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a story that's happening and there is a

whole world that's going on that I don't

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know about because it lives in someone

else's head and I just messed that up.

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and I don't want it to be that.

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I don't want it to be like

the drama and trauma of trying

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to clean up after yourself.

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there was some pushback and However,

the, I guess the other avenue that

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I resorted to in, in saying, we need

to start doing this more is there are

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markers that are in here that are dry.

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When you find stuff that doesn't

work, when you find stuff that

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isn't like you're not playing with.

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let's start there.

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Like, how about if today we go through

and pick up the dried markers and test

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those out and all of that and just

try and do it that way versus more

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of a like prescriptive, now we will

do these things and you will love it.

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Track 1: Absolutely.

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And I think you brought

up so many good points.

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one, yeah, you've got four

different kids with four different

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personalities, so even to try to get

them on the same page is impossible.

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Let's be realistic.

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And it really was a jumping off point.

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And like you said, you put

out this new idea and it's

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going to be a slow adaptation.

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I was talking with that low hanging fruit.

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Okay, let's just find the markers that

are dried, like making it really simple.

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And I think too, I think with kids,

their perspective is so different.

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I think when they hear something

that's about change, there is

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sort of this unsettling feeling of

everything's going to change, right?

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So if you make it really bite

size, no, just get rid of the

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markers that don't work, right?

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it feels like a really

comfortable in for some kids.

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You just started the conversation and

that's all we can really do is, not turn

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our backs and pretend it's going to fix

itself, but just start the conversation.

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And I love that you were talking

about the pushback, they.

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Changing the sheets every week.

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I just had this with my kid where he

hadn't brushed his teeth before bed.

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And he came back with,

you didn't remind me.

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And I was like, Oh my goodness,

we have brushed your teeth every

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night for your entire life.

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And you're telling me now at 11

years old, you need a reminder.

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So it's like you with the sheets, like

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are naturally going to push back.

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That's just the role.

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I was thinking about that.

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Story of what is it, the scorpion and

the frog, and it's just yep, it's our

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role as parents to teach them this stuff.

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And it's their roles as kids to

be like, I don't want to do that.

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let's be honest, it's boring

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

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Track 1: It is kids want to play.

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, even adults don't want to do this.

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

It's true.

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with my kids, I tell them just

brush the teeth they want to keep.

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and they're like, wait, what?

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or like my youngest is but

I have all my baby teeth.

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And I'm like, fair, don't brush them.

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See what happens.

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And then, and he's Oh, okay.

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Like what?

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but yeah, no, I think that the, that idea,

appealing to interests in terms of there

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are toys in the basement that they know

are in the basement that they want to

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come out and so having it framed as more

of a bartering type situation versus Like

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initially, it was like, I'm going to go in

and I'm going to take these toys and I'm

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going to put them down in the basement.

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that's trauma.

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Very, small, but that is the like

the ripping apart of the ecosystem

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of their playroom that they have

set up for themselves, right?

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Versus there's already

stuff in the basement.

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They know what's down there.

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They know that this is going to happen.

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this is where things live

that are not being used.

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If you decide that you want the

thing, if you want the farm with

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the tractor or this and this, there

has to be a trade that takes place.

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So there is a currency that works

for them that's happening versus

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me just going in and saying, I'm

going to take out these 20 things.

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They're gone.

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Too bad.

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and so they then get to say, all right,

I want to trade out this for the Paw

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Patrol tower that's in the basement.

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And I mean, they definitely come over

with one block of Lego and they're

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like, can I trade this for the tower?

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And I'm like, eh, no, like equal

value in terms of like real

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estate has to be had here in order

for this transaction to work.

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But I see you with your cute self.

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Track 1: that's a great example

of, I use the example of having

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a boundary on things, right?

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And so it's you want the

toy room to be theirs.

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You've given them the boundary of

this room for them to, like you said,

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create that ecosystem of the playroom.

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And then there is the, okay,

you've got freedom within this.

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But if you want to bring something

else in, here's the boundary.

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You have to trade something out.

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So it's you're not dictating.

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I remember learning from this

parenting expert and I can't remember

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the two words, but it's like on one

end of the extreme is a dictator.

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And on the other end of the stream is

whatever the opposite of a dictator is.

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

It's the, it's not authoritarian

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cause that's like on the left.

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it has to do with just saying no,

not ever saying no to anything.

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Track 1: Right.

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And this parenting educator was

talking about how both ends of

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the extreme are actually both

really hard for kids and scary.

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And she was saying, it's actually

finding that middle point of there

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are rules and there is freedom, but

having freedom within the rules.

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And that's what I hear

you saying with your kids.

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Giving them the structure and then you're

also giving them choices within it.

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And.

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Giving him that incentive of if you give

up this then you can get that and I use

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that example of if somebody's Birthday

is coming up or if there's a holiday

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where they're gonna get lots of gifts

It's like, all right, the closet's full

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if you want room for new toys to come in.

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What do you want to trade?

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What do you want to

donate to the preschool?

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What do you want to donate to your cousin

and just giving him that I always think

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about the expression Have you heard it?

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now, hard later, hard now, easy later.

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And it's yeah, this stuff is boring.

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Going through the markers is boring.

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Deciding what to get rid of is boring.

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But, if you learn that now, as a

kid, it's actually going to make

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life easier when you're older.

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If you don't want to teach

them now, that's fine.

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that is the easy path.

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But then your kid's going

to be really confused.

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Struggling when they have their own

space and they don't know how to get

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rid of stuff or go through those markers

Right, like we're trying to teach in

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that skill, which yeah, it's not easy

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squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

No, it's not.

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And it's also too, I think I don't,

I also don't want anyone to be under

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the impression that like I had this

conversation like a couple of times

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and we swapped things out and like now

my playroom looks like a showpiece.

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Like I think that's the other part

too, that people get hung up on is

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the idea of I did the things and I

followed the steps and now they're

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still like, you mess in there.

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But what kind is it?

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Is it a mess of overwhelming things

are like crammed into shelves

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and like all over the place?

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Or is it the mess of play?

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play is not neat.

353

:

It shouldn't be neat.

354

:

and that is like unstructured play when

you have imagination and creativity and

355

:

all of those things that people don't see.

356

:

because it's happening between

two kids or it's happening in

357

:

your own head and all that stuff.

358

:

That is inherently a mess.

359

:

And that's the point.

360

:

And it's just this idea of creating

the space for that to happen,

361

:

but also creating the structure

for when that's over for it to

362

:

go back to where it needs to be.

363

:

So there is that reset for next time.

364

:

Track 1: Absolutely, and I mean you and

I are so on the same page Twin Flames.

365

:

Yeah, it's letting them understand If

you have too much stuff, there is no open

366

:

floor to build that Lego set to create

that space for the unicorn to live.

367

:

By limiting how much is in the room, we

are allowing for that freedom of play.

368

:

So again, it's that education piece and

just that not, it's not even a trade off.

369

:

It's just if this, then that I always

think back to when my son, he would

370

:

get an idea and very much ingrained.

371

:

I'm trying to not use the word donkey.

372

:

you know how like donkeys

just dig their heels in.

373

:

He was a little tiny kid and

I picked him up from daycare.

374

:

And the teacher was like, just so you

know, he didn't have a snack today.

375

:

And it's not that he wasn't

allowed to have a snack.

376

:

It was that he had to

wash his hands first.

377

:

Cause we were outside in the sand.

378

:

And he chose to stand in front of

the sink and not wash his hands

379

:

while we had snack for 20 minutes.

380

:

And I was like, first of

all, it sounds like my kid.

381

:

she's like, but I told him you can have

your snack after you wash your hands.

382

:

It was very much if this than that.

383

:

I've really tried to take that

in as I go forward instead of

384

:

those, hammer down, dictator,

authoritarian, this is what it is.

385

:

It's just, if this, then that, if you

have space in the room to play, then

386

:

you can utilize all your toys better.

387

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Right.

388

:

Track 1: but going back to what you said

in the beginning, it's yeah, you put

389

:

the idea out there and they naturally

pushed back because they're kids.

390

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354: Mhm.

391

:

But it's also too like having,

you know, when you say like easy

392

:

now hard later Is that is gonna

apply across the board, right?

393

:

So if the if you're not having these

conversations right now That means

394

:

that it's gonna be that much harder to

have those conversations going forward.

395

:

So it's not always necessarily like the

conversation Yes, the playroom is the

396

:

topic, but the conversation is more about

modeling the element of boundaries and

397

:

compromise and freedom and flexibility

and how that all comes together.

398

:

Because, if you say no to

everything all the time, no, no,

399

:

no, everything is super strict.

400

:

It is going to come back like that's hard.

401

:

It's not that's hard in a way that's

not going to become easier later.

402

:

And so it's that mix of figuring out

where that middle place is and holding

403

:

that space as the space to work towards

versus saying, I just say no to everything

404

:

so that they're going to be like better

off in the future because there's no, I

405

:

don't know an adult who's thank you so

much for being a complete jerk at work.

406

:

thank you so much.

407

:

I really miss this from, my

family of origin or my childhood.

408

:

You have really warmed my

heart on this Christmas Eve.

409

:

no, people are just like,

that person is a jerk.

410

:

what?

411

:

I'm not, I am not going to do what

they're telling me to do because I am

412

:

now an adult and I don't have to and I

grew up like that so it's that, space

413

:

of like, mutual respect and compromise.

414

:

Track 1: A hundred percent.

415

:

And what you were saying in there

too, I was thinking of this concept

416

:

of like the nuance of understanding

a situation from all angles.

417

:

If you do come down with that hammer

of I'm getting rid of, 50 percent of

418

:

stuff, no questions, no understanding,

just I'm doing this, they never

419

:

understand the situation of it from all

angles, And so that is that hard now.

420

:

So it's easier latEr.

421

:

When you were talking about the

whole no thing, there was this.

422

:

Research study done.

423

:

And for the life of me, I have

not been able to find it again,

424

:

but it was so interesting.

425

:

They looked at cultures all around

the world and how in the most cultures

426

:

outside of the United States, when

kids ask to be a part of something.

427

:

They're included.

428

:

It's messy.

429

:

It makes things more complicated,

but there's a sense of engagement

430

:

and the kid learns how to make that

food that you have once a week, they

431

:

learn how to wash the dish, right?

432

:

But there is such a mindset of, I'm

going to say no, because they're

433

:

going to create more work for me.

434

:

Okay.

435

:

You're going to say no when

there's zero through 10.

436

:

And then when they're 11, you're going

to expect them to start doing chores.

437

:

And you've been telling them,

no, you can't use the vacuum

438

:

cleaner this whole time.

439

:

It's like that whole thing of yes and no.

440

:

Yeah.

441

:

If you're always saying no, then they're

going to stop being part of the process.

442

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah, I, it's definitely a cultural thing

443

:

to like having, there are definitely

lots of other countries and this is

444

:

very, widely known, widely studied that

there are other countries where children

445

:

are very much a part of the day to day.

446

:

children going out to eat in restaurants,

like children are allowed to exist

447

:

as their whole human selves in their

imperfect manners and their imperfect

448

:

behavior and all of those things.

449

:

And it's just accepted.

450

:

Whereas this country still

functions very much in a like seen,

451

:

not heard mentality around it.

452

:

However, if we don't allow children to

have that space to be, imperfect and

453

:

Loud and all of those things and we

just keep them Quiet and on the side

454

:

and like they don't go they don't have

the those experiences and they don't

455

:

have that exposure That is not going to

help them in the long run and it's also

456

:

not going to help them when they have

their own children it's an impossible

457

:

lift right now, to think that you have

children and they're supposed to go

458

:

out into the world and act as though

they are little tiny adults because

459

:

children are not little tiny adults.

460

:

They are children and if you don't clear

space for them in your own, patience

461

:

and concept and all of that stuff,

like it's not going to get easier just

462

:

because you don't want to deal with it.

463

:

.

Track 1: And I mean, in, in no way are either one of us, I don't want

464

:

to speak for you, but it's I'm not

dismissing how much more work it is.

465

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Oh, tons.

466

:

Track 1: kid to the restaurant and then

have to take them outside when they

467

:

start having a tantrum like it is so

much More work, but it's that hard now

468

:

easy later And I try to say this to a

lot of whenever I can to people with

469

:

young kids about participation And I'm

like no matter what the home task is they

470

:

don't even have to be verbal If they can

walk, they can be part of the process.

471

:

If you're taking the trash out, ask

them to open the door, make sure

472

:

they're witnessing the process, have

them stand there and be a part of it.

473

:

And then one day they're going to be

tall enough to hold a bag of trash.

474

:

And maybe they can't take it

out to the trash can, but maybe

475

:

they can carry it to the door.

476

:

Right.

477

:

Making dinner.

478

:

No, they're not going to

use the stove or the knife.

479

:

No, but can they pull out a

pot or a pan that's at their

480

:

level that's not breakable?

481

:

clearing dishes.

482

:

It's okay, you don't want them to

pick up something that's breakable,

483

:

but can they carry the salt

and pepper back to the counter?

484

:

Or, like the silverware that's not sharp.

485

:

Can they carry it over to the sink?

486

:

It's like finding that in for them

to start to be a part of it and

487

:

say yes and learn and see and do

and that expectation is there.

488

:

I'm part of the process,

489

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

I'm part of the family.

490

:

Track 1: I'm part of the family

versus waiting 10 years and going,

491

:

why aren't you doing anything?

492

:

cause you told me no.

493

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

494

:

Or, it's also, in occupational therapy,

it's called the Just Right Challenge.

495

:

So it's figuring out what people

can do, and this applies across the

496

:

board, but, figuring out what people

can do, and if you either need to

497

:

modify the activity or teach skills.

498

:

And that's the whole, that's the

whole balance and the whole push and

499

:

pull that, that I use professionally.

500

:

or in practice.

501

:

and it's figuring out like what the

activity parts look like and what

502

:

they can do and what they can't do,

where the pieces that's gone awry and

503

:

what's the best way to overcome that

challenge or that stopping point.

504

:

Is it you have to work on the skills

that you need to reacquire if it's an

505

:

adult or the skills that you need to

acquire as a child you or do you need

506

:

to actually modify the activity because

somebody that, like someone who's had

507

:

a stroke and one of their arms doesn't

work, not doesn't work, but is impacted

508

:

by their stroke, they're not going

to be able to use a cutting board, a

509

:

regular cutting board with two hands.

510

:

So do you just tell them that they can't

cut food for the rest of their life

511

:

because you're a person who wants to live

independently as independent as possible?

512

:

Instead of doing that, you

use an adaptive cutting board.

513

:

So you use a cutting board that has

these, spikes that come up, and it holds

514

:

the food so it does the work that their

second hand would do, so that they are

515

:

able to engage in that task to the best

of their ability, and they are able

516

:

to successfully complete that task.

517

:

And with kids, generally speaking,

it is learning the skills as they go.

518

:

So it's exactly what you're saying,

it's, you're not going to have your kid

519

:

cook, A big baked pasta dish, right?

520

:

But your kids can do things like they

can stir the stuff before it's hot.

521

:

They can help set the table.

522

:

They can help do all of those pieces.

523

:

And if it doesn't look perfect, it's okay.

524

:

Also, like who is who's going to come over

like on a Thursday night and be like, I

525

:

would have given this dinner a 10 However,

the table is not set to perfection.

526

:

Like it's your own house.

527

:

You can do whatever the hell

you want your own house.

528

:

Okay.

529

:

when it comes to like people

learning things and making a mess.

530

:

Track 1: and I think that comes into

getting clear on your objective.

531

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

All right.

532

:

Track 1: Is your objective

that it looks a certain way?

533

:

Is your objective that it has to be

done in a certain amount of time?

534

:

Is your objective that you want to teach

your children skills by including them.

535

:

And again, anyone listening who's feeling

that urge to push back, I understand

536

:

it takes so much more gosh darn time.

537

:

I do, I truly do.

538

:

And if you always say no,

they're never going to help.

539

:

And it's not about including

them with every single activity.

540

:

But finding, like you said,

a step that is just right.

541

:

And I used to work with, an assisted

living facility and we used the

542

:

expression about setting them up for

success, which is exact same thing.

543

:

Just more syllables,

but it's the same thing.

544

:

There's this recipe that my son likes

to do, and I find it to be very much

545

:

a pain in the butt, but I'm like, if

you help me do it, we'll, we'll do it.

546

:

I have found the step that he can very

easily do that reduces the burden on me,

547

:

but I have to set them up for success.

548

:

And then he does that very, he does

it happily because he's getting

549

:

the recipe he wants at the end.

550

:

And now that I've done it two times.

551

:

It's Oh, this part is yours.

552

:

I don't even have to tell him.

553

:

And so it's like putting that

little bit of input in the beginning

554

:

for the output on the other end.

555

:

Mhm.

556

:

Mhm.

557

:

Track 1: And so circling this all

back to your kids toy rooms, it's,

558

:

you're giving them that autonomy of

managing a space that's their own so

559

:

that they can have enjoyment, but also

making sure that it doesn't become,

560

:

Mhm.

561

:

Track 1: Complete anarchy and chaos

because they do need to learn the

562

:

structure to be able to enjoy it fully

and then have those skills as an adult.

563

:

we're right on the same page.

564

:

Again, I think our souls were connected

at one point in a previous life.

565

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Well, and I think the important thing

566

:

for people that are listening who

are like, that sounds great lady.

567

:

Like you can just go and put

on your linen apron and Mary

568

:

Poppins your way through life.

569

:

And like your kids come out as these like

fully formed, like shit hits the fan too.

570

:

And that's.

571

:

that's.

572

:

okay.

573

:

It's okay that happens.

574

:

I want my kids to learn how to

clean up their playroom, but that

575

:

doesn't mean that I'm never going to

go in there again and, rip through

576

:

all the trash and pull it all out.

577

:

Because.

578

:

Time is a factor in all of these pieces.

579

:

I can teach my kids how to cook

something on a Sunday afternoon if we

580

:

don't have any sports and the groceries

are done and all of those things.

581

:

But like also remembering that like

a Tuesday when, three kids have

582

:

activities going on and there's

literally like a 20 minute swap

583

:

over to have dinner on the table.

584

:

this isn't the chef's dream

that you're putting out.

585

:

However, there are a half a dozen people

who need to eat food so that it does

586

:

not dissolve into some sort of Jurassic

Park takeoff, is really important

587

:

because There's so much out there that

I think it's put out as an all or none.

588

:

It's you

589

:

can either always be doing this thing,

like you can always be the patient and

590

:

engaged and quiet voice, like whatever

parent, or you're the one who just

591

:

says no to everything and you are like

so pressed for this and everything

592

:

moves fast and you don't have time and

there's no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

593

:

There is ebbing and flowing that happens.

594

:

And because you exist in one space,

you're not doing the right thing

595

:

and you exist in the other space.

596

:

You're not doing the wrong thing.

597

:

And I think that's really important

because people put so much pressure on

598

:

themselves to do the right thing, but the

right thing is not always the same thing.

599

:

Track 1: hundred percent.

600

:

And it goes back to earlier when I

said that nuance of understanding.

601

:

Yeah, I never, I can't say never.

602

:

Cause that would contradict my point.

603

:

I'm going to make, I try to not

make any sentence of absolutes.

604

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

605

:

Never and always.

606

:

Track 1: never an office.

607

:

They're all suggestions and ideas

to create the scaffolding for the

608

:

general direction you want to go in.

609

:

Like you said, some days getting the

food on the table is more important than

610

:

including all four kids in the process.

611

:

Abso frickin lutely.

612

:

That doesn't mean you never

include the kids in the process.

613

:

It just means some days it's going

to make sense and some days it's not.

614

:

what is your objective in that moment?

615

:

And then what's your overall objective?

616

:

I use this example I

call zoom in, zoom out.

617

:

Zoom out.

618

:

What's your overall objective as a

family and as your parenting goals?

619

:

Zoom out and then zoom in.

620

:

Is that going to work

right in this situation?

621

:

Okay.

622

:

Maybe not, but zoom back out and make

sure you know, your overall trajectory.

623

:

And if you can keep putting drops in

that direction, you want to go, sure.

624

:

If you've got a hundred marbles,

and you're like, okay, it's

625

:

going into, this is my objective.

626

:

I'm going to put it.

627

:

Okay.

628

:

I hit it.

629

:

I hit it.

630

:

But some of the marbles

aren't going to fall in there.

631

:

Hey, get the majority, get

51 percent of them in there.

632

:

And you're going in that direction.

633

:

But like you said, don't just

throw it out the door and just say,

634

:

Oh, it's never going to happen.

635

:

Oh, try it once a week,

try it once a month.

636

:

I don't know.

637

:

Like just , don't ignore any

of these ideas because you

638

:

think you can't do them always.

639

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

640

:

Track 1: There's not that pressure.

641

:

it's making it work with your lifestyle

and having ideas of directions to go.

642

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah,

643

:

it's too, we don't, no

one lives on Instagram.

644

:

And if you are inspired by things

that you see there, that's great.

645

:

But if going there leads you to feeling

terribly, that's not the place that

646

:

you need to be because nobody on

Instagram is raising your children.

647

:

every house is different.

648

:

Every orientation, every schedule, every,

all of that stuff is all different.

649

:

It's not an apples to apples conversation.

650

:

my family looks very different

at five o'clock with four kids

651

:

than my neighbor who has two.

652

:

And maybe that means at five

o'clock on a Tuesday, they

653

:

are making pizzas as a family.

654

:

But at five o'clock on a Tuesday,

I am trying to feed the dinosaurs

655

:

before my house gets raged on.

656

:

And I love the dinosaurs.

657

:

They're very cute.

658

:

It's very sweet.

659

:

They look like the ones in

Jurassic Park before the rain.

660

:

and it's just like that idea, right?

661

:

Of right now, this is what I need to do.

662

:

Also remembering that I'm only

responsible for my dinosaurs.

663

:

One of my most favorite phrases as a

parent is not my circus, not my monkeys.

664

:

And my kids know this phrase very

well because sometimes they will

665

:

come home and they'll be like, so

and so is doing this or so and so

666

:

is having this happen or whatever.

667

:

And I'm like, not my

circus, not my monkeys.

668

:

I can only attend to four because

that's all I'm responsible for.

669

:

Track 1: a hundred percent.

670

:

And that's, that is a foundational

premise of no shame in the home game is

671

:

your house is not going to be managed

like your neighbor's house because.

672

:

We all have a different amount of living

beings in the house, we all have a

673

:

different set of resources, whether that's

financial time, emotional energy, physical

674

:

energy, and we all have different goals,

like different expectations for our home

675

:

unit and what that looks like, right?

676

:

if one family, all they want to do

is go camping every single weekend,

677

:

The way they structure their house is

going to be very different than the

678

:

family that all they want to do is

play games and be at home and, try to

679

:

leave the house as little as possible.

680

:

you can't compare them, not your circus,

not your monkeys, but if you can hear

681

:

something from any one of these episodes,

even if we're talking about the playroom.

682

:

Maybe you don't have four kids, maybe

you don't have a designated room for a

683

:

playroom, but the principle of giving

your kids the power and authority to learn

684

:

how to manage their belongings, right?

685

:

Finding that core element.

686

:

I know you know this, so it's anyone

who listening, it's just yeah,

687

:

we don't expect you to do it like

Ashley's doing it or like I'm doing it.

688

:

But if you can find some nugget.

689

:

That will work in your home, then great.

690

:

Take that home and try

it on, see if it works

691

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

and also not expecting that, like

692

:

the conversation will be the same.

693

:

maybe lightning struck and you

have the kid that's I really

694

:

think that's a great idea.

695

:

We should definitely rip apart

all of this and just make it

696

:

look more aesthetically pleasing.

697

:

like that's not going to happen.

698

:

But.

699

:

I also think it's important that people

know that, if you do get pushback,

700

:

it's not a one that it's not just

your kid, every kid is going to push

701

:

back and that doesn't necessarily

mean that there's a different way to

702

:

do it where you'll get no pushback.

703

:

It's that, that's part of the trade

off is you can't at this stage, you

704

:

can't throw something out there and

expect it to be, like, Always 100

705

:

percent well received, no, no issues.

706

:

and, yeah, like, to your point,

having, not having a space, this

707

:

for me is not about the playroom.

708

:

it's about their ability to,

take on a task for themselves and

709

:

understand that, you have these

things and you have this space.

710

:

It just where this is a playroom.

711

:

we can do this about their bedrooms.

712

:

We can do this about the

play area in the yard.

713

:

We can do like any of it.

714

:

It all applies.

715

:

It's the skills that are transferable

to other areas of their life.

716

:

That's more important than what the

shelves of their playroom look like.

717

:

Track 1: a hundred percent.

718

:

And I mean, and let's get real too.

719

:

I always say kids are like squirrels,

720

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

I've got a lot of squirrels,

721

:

Track 1: They want to squirrel away

722

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

everything,

723

:

Track 1: everything.

724

:

And that is the, I think

that's their default setting.

725

:

And it's like you said, you're not

going to put this out there and they're

726

:

going to embrace it a hundred percent.

727

:

That would be no, like their natural

tendency is to want to keep everything.

728

:

Even if that marker is dried out,

like your example in the first

729

:

episode of that bottle cap, that's

taped to that cardboard square.

730

:

That might've been Lacey's kid.

731

:

they want to keep.

732

:

Everything that's going to

be their tendency and they're

733

:

not going to want change.

734

:

But that doesn't mean it doesn't mean

you have to flip it, 180 degrees.

735

:

And it doesn't mean that you have to

embrace it a hundred percent either.

736

:

It's like, okay, I see what you want.

737

:

Let's talk about what is a good idea.

738

:

And like you said, finding the in

between, like where can you match

739

:

so that they have those skills

to apply to any of their spaces?

740

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

741

:

I think about this in terms of like

when people talk about like breaking

742

:

horses so you can make it so you can

actually put a saddle on a horse and

743

:

you can ride a horse and all of that.

744

:

And how, if you take a horse that's

never been ridden before and you

745

:

throw a saddle on it, first of all,

the saddle's not going to stay.

746

:

Second of all, you are not going to stay.

747

:

Third.

748

:

Someone's going to get

hurt in this experience.

749

:

And it's not because the horse is bad

and it's not because you are mean it's

750

:

because the two of you are trying to

figure out how to do something that,

751

:

that the horse has never done before.

752

:

Maybe you've never done

that before either.

753

:

cause generally that's how it goes with

parenting is that, you've never done

754

:

the things until you do the things.

755

:

And so it's this idea of going piece by

piece and figuring out how to get the

756

:

horse used to being around people, having

a blanket on, having a saddle on, and

757

:

then following along with the direction.

758

:

and that is, that's really what, that's

really what we're after when it comes

759

:

to trying to figure out the best way

for everybody to live and work together

760

:

where it doesn't involve just horses

running everywhere and kicking things

761

:

or squirrels.

762

:

Track 1: I just pictured putting

a little saddle on a squirrel.

763

:

I think about when you're talking about

breaking that horse, I think about

764

:

one of my aha moments is a parent is

realizing you don't say it once you

765

:

say it over and over and over, and

it's like the toothbrushing example.

766

:

We have been brushing the inside of his

mouth 365 days, maybe we've missed one

767

:

or two here or there because of travel or

chaos, whatever, and he's still confused

768

:

about brushing his teeth at night.

769

:

As your job as a parent over and over and

like breaking that horse with that saddle.

770

:

And then one day, you don't know when.

771

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

772

:

No idea.

773

:

Track 1: day, no idea, but if you don't

do it over and over, it'll never happen.

774

:

And.

775

:

Man, those moments when you see

them do something self initiated,

776

:

that you've been putting that drop

in that bucket for years and years.

777

:

Man, , like you're like,

Oh, they finally heard it.

778

:

I only had to say it 2000 times,

but they finally heard it.

779

:

Like when my kid clears his dishes without

me having to prompt him, I'm like, wow.

780

:

It's really happening

781

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

782

:

When my kids, when we come back

from the grocery store and I

783

:

don't take all four of them to the

grocery store, like I'm not nuts.

784

:

but usually one will come with me

sometimes, depending on when I go.

785

:

But I remember the first time one

of my kids, I opened up the trunk

786

:

of the car and they like came around

the corner and grabbed a grocery

787

:

bag and we're like, can I help?

788

:

And I was like, knock

me over with a feather.

789

:

Holy cow.

790

:

It wasn't like get out of the

car and walk in the house.

791

:

I'm like.

792

:

Yeah, you can.

793

:

And also, I'd like a bullhorn

because I would like to shout from

794

:

the rooftops how incredible this is.

795

:

and you have to do that too.

796

:

it's not that you have to say these things

a million and one times, is that you also

797

:

have to acknowledge when those things are

happening, because that is so essential.

798

:

Because I do think, For sure that kids

want to be helpful like they don't want

799

:

to be in the way or they don't want

to like do all this stuff is they're

800

:

trying to figure out how do I fit

into this equation they asked to do

801

:

things because they want to be a part

of something And so when they do these

802

:

things and you're like, oh my god.

803

:

Yes This is amazing.

804

:

Yes.

805

:

you just made my day.

806

:

that feels good.

807

:

And it's not, you did this,

therefore you are good.

808

:

It's holy cow, that's so helpful.

809

:

Thank you so much.

810

:

This is awesome.

811

:

And you don't, necessarily have to,

fall down and, all of that all the time.

812

:

But when these milestones happen, if you

have that expectation and they look at

813

:

it as this is just the expectation versus

it really means a lot to me that you are

814

:

able to help with this, that's gonna also

change their trajectory in a way that is,

815

:

I would argue wholeheartedly more likely

for that type of help and behavior and

816

:

things that we are wanting to put out

into the world to continue to happen.

817

:

Track 1: a hundred percent.

818

:

And I think of two.

819

:

Back to the premise of the show, no shame

in the home game is so much a better

820

:

motivator to do something inspired by joy

and happiness and glee rather than shame,

821

:

. I have to make my house look a certain

way because otherwise I feel shamed.

822

:

If I don't, that is heavy and

it doesn't feel great versus.

823

:

I feel really joyful when all my clothes

are put away and it just feels good.

824

:

That good fuel motivation

will get you farther.

825

:

So like with your kids helping to carry

the bag, giving them recognition of

826

:

that's really helpful and I appreciate it.

827

:

Is going to give them that good fuel.

828

:

That's going to go

farther versus the shame.

829

:

Why doesn't anyone ever help me?

830

:

I'm always by myself.

831

:

Nobody does anything.

832

:

That shame is heavy

and is not a motivator.

833

:

Right.

834

:

and I know how it's anyone listening,

who's pushing back and saying, but

835

:

they don't help me and I am alone.

836

:

And it is frustrating.

837

:

Yeah, I validate you a hundred percent.

838

:

It is frustrating.

839

:

And.

840

:

If we put that emotional weight

on the rest of our family, they're

841

:

not going to do jack squat.

842

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354: hmm.

843

:

Track 1: They're not going to feel

motivated by your frustration.

844

:

Unfortunately, I've yet to

see that happen at least

845

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

yeah, and also recognizing that a there

846

:

are people out there that Do say the

things and they ask a million times and

847

:

they are following all the steps who are

going Yeah, no one is picking the bag

848

:

and like now I'm over it now I am full of

resentment and I hate this and it's awful

849

:

is like if you like Cinderella songbird,

every instruction or whatever that all

850

:

of a sudden, everyone's just going to be

like, ah, like a twinkle of awareness.

851

:

And then everyone flutters

down to help empty out the car.

852

:

there, there are things that may work

out and there's stuff that's not.

853

:

And if it doesn't mean that you have to

circle back and figure out how to ask

854

:

people in a way, it's okay to be pissed

and it's okay to have that expectation.

855

:

And you're like, listen, I put this

out here and I did this and I laid it

856

:

all out and stuff's still not changing.

857

:

Stuff's still not working out.

858

:

Let's have a conversation about this

because I just live in the dark and stormy

859

:

castle tower now and I don't want to.

860

:

Because that's also not fair because then

that's not only like The shame that is

861

:

going out towards other people But that

is the shame that you experience on the

862

:

inside of like why won't anyone help me?

863

:

Can't people see how hard I work?

864

:

Track 1: I, yeah, I want

to make it very clear.

865

:

I don't say any of this stuff

from high on the mountain.

866

:

Like I have it all figured out.

867

:

I still, like I said, I still have

to repeat things over and over.

868

:

But what I've recognized for myself

is when I can take my frustration and

869

:

those big, heavy emotions and find an

outlet for them, not in the direction

870

:

of my family, if I can get the heavy

emotions out in a safe way, and then

871

:

I can get clear on the communication.

872

:

Of, okay, they will hear me if

we have a very calm conversation,

873

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Mm hmm.

874

:

Track 1: Feelings, a

hundred percent valid.

875

:

We had a listening expert, Deb

from the hold organization.

876

:

And yeah, it was just about you can't have

a conversation when you're dysregulated,

877

:

you can try to have a conversation,

878

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

not a successful one.

879

:

Track 1: not a successful one.

880

:

And so it's about.

881

:

regulating that nervous system.

882

:

So you can have a constructive

conversation because otherwise everyone's

883

:

going to be having big emotions.

884

:

If you come in with big emotions and in

the motions are valid, they're a hundred

885

:

percent valid, but yeah, find someplace

else to get those big feelings out.

886

:

I'm human.

887

:

It doesn't always work

out that way for me.

888

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah But the intention is there, right?

889

:

Like the intention with the

playroom is to create a space.

890

:

The intention with the cooking in the

kitchen is to have children that grow up

891

:

and they learn how to do this stuff and

they go off into the world and they're

892

:

not like putting shoes in their oven

because they're never going to use it.

893

:

Like it's, it, that's what you

want is you, that's the goal.

894

:

The goal is to pebble by pebble, launch

a fully formed human out into the world.

895

:

And.

896

:

having these plateaus and having

these dips and then having these like

897

:

huge periods of growth is part of

what's going to happen along the way.

898

:

And Yeah.

899

:

It's just that having these conversations

and having the consistency and having

900

:

the expectations that things are

going to work and things aren't.

901

:

even in my own life, like sometimes

I am totally buried in work and

902

:

it's I don't do all of the things

that I normally do, but right.

903

:

Like no one's going to hound, like going

to run around and hound me about it.

904

:

Yeah.

905

:

So sometimes my kids have a lot of

things going on like tournaments or big

906

:

school projects and stuff like that.

907

:

It's like there's got to be some grace

in there and some understanding that they

908

:

also have a different level of capacity

than you do for handling things alongside.

909

:

So like for them, , their

upcoming tournament might be the

910

:

most stressful thing for them.

911

:

Whereas your like product launch

that has taken 18 weeks to

912

:

develop and run the runway on.

913

:

It's the same.

914

:

It's the same.

915

:

Like the level of stress that they're

feeling and the level of stress

916

:

that you're feeling is the same.

917

:

The only difference is you've

already passed that step

918

:

and that's where they are.

919

:

so acknowledging and honoring them

where they are is going to help in that

920

:

element of compromise and intention

and Getting to a place where everyone,

921

:

there's a mutual understanding and mutual

compassion and mutual respect about that

922

:

and how to move forward productively.

923

:

Track 1: Yeah.

924

:

Oh my gosh.

925

:

This has been so great, Ashley.

926

:

Thank you so much for

sharing your journey with us.

927

:

I think the more we can talk about

it, it just helps other people to

928

:

see the reality of the situation.

929

:

and I know your intention too, with

your podcast and both, it just.

930

:

Let's all talk about it.

931

:

Let's all just be open about what's

going on and what works for us, what

932

:

doesn't work for us and not judging other

people for how they're doing things.

933

:

So

934

:

thank you so much.

935

:

squadcaster-a8gb_1_03-26-2024_110354:

Yeah.

936

:

I think, I just think the more

conversations that we have agreed

937

:

is better because especially where

there's so much input on, motherhood

938

:

and doing motherhood that's where

there's so many of these pieces that

939

:

we can not necessarily fix, but we can

sort of iron some of the wrinkles out

940

:

and move forward in a way that is more

cohesive and is more collaborative

941

:

and actually like having, coming

from a place of a more regulated form

942

:

of communication so that everyone

gets their seat at the table.

943

:

Track 1: Yes.

944

:

thank you again, Ashley, for

being part of this journey

945

:

and good luck with everything.

946

:

And I know we'll be in touch.

947

:

because yeah, I don't.

948

:

I don't want to not have these

great conversations with you.

949

:

Mhm.

950

:

Mhm.

951

:

Sara: Welcome back.

952

:

No shame in the home gamers.

953

:

So that was our first participant,

Ashley, her last episode.

954

:

So we've gone through all of

her work and bid her good luck.

955

:

Cause this work is never done.

956

:

It's just, you're at one step in

the process, which just keeps going.

957

:

I actually was thinking about that

this morning, cause I'm moving

958

:

artwork around in my house and I

really have to go over and over.

959

:

Step back from this is

where it's going to be.

960

:

And I'm shifting to let's try it out.

961

:

Very Lacey style.

962

:

Let's try it out.

963

:

Cause life just keeps happening

and we just keep adapting.

964

:

Lacey: We do.

965

:

And kids keep growing and

changing and all that stuff.

966

:

Just all of the things with it, for sure.

967

:

Sara: Speaking of growing, my kid went

to get on the school bus and I was like,

968

:

Whoa, is he going to dig clams today?

969

:

Because those pants are

knocking on his knees.

970

:

I actually displaced an order for some

pants because I told him, I said, hey,

971

:

we need to get those out of your closet.

972

:

And he goes, then I wouldn't have enough

pants to wear to school each week.

973

:

Okay.

974

:

So that means again,

teaching kids how to operate.

975

:

Okay.

976

:

So that's a signal that

we need to get more pants.

977

:

Lacey: Yeah, you do laundry too well.

978

:

That's what that tells me.

979

:

Because ours is like, Isaac's

Mom, where are all my pants?

980

:

I'm like, I don't know, bro.

981

:

They're somewhere.

982

:

they're in the, they're being washed.

983

:

It's fine.

984

:

Actually, right now, their

clothes got washed on Thursday.

985

:

And then I fold them.

986

:

And I've been saying they

have to put them away.

987

:

especially Isaac.

988

:

Iris will help.

989

:

But Isaac is old enough.

990

:

He's five.

991

:

He knows where his clothes go.

992

:

He can put them And I

folded them on Iris's floor.

993

:

And guess what's still

there on Monday morning?

994

:

Everyone's clothes.

995

:

, you know what?

996

:

Doesn't hurt me.

997

:

Whatever.

998

:

Okay.

999

:

Sara: It doesn't hurt anyone and I always

think about different tasks in the home

:

00:52:23,443 --> 00:52:27,563

as either like a straight run or a relay.

:

00:52:28,243 --> 00:52:30,073

You're in the middle of

a relay with the laundry.

:

00:52:30,453 --> 00:52:34,943

And it's just, that's the

step that it comes next.

:

00:52:35,493 --> 00:52:39,573

I think maybe we don't want

them living there in perpetuity.

:

00:52:40,213 --> 00:52:44,693

Lacey: I'm just surprised Iris hasn't been

like, Guys, what, get this out of here.

:

00:52:44,693 --> 00:52:45,553

What are you doing?

:

00:52:45,563 --> 00:52:49,593

Cause she very much would be like,

is my space, get out of here.

:

00:52:49,593 --> 00:52:50,443

But she hasn't.

:

00:52:50,573 --> 00:52:53,923

Sara: I'm just, I'm imagining her, if

you actually did fold it all, like she's

:

00:52:53,923 --> 00:52:57,073

going to go in there and jump into it

like a big pile of clothes and mess it all

:

00:52:57,183 --> 00:53:02,933

Lacey: if I had to guess, I heard Joe at

some point saying leave the laundry alone.

:

00:53:03,673 --> 00:53:06,013

I think it was getting ready

for bedtime at some point.

:

00:53:06,013 --> 00:53:07,333

I think that has happened.

:

00:53:07,613 --> 00:53:11,883

I have emotionally separated myself from

that because, As I think we talked about

:

00:53:11,883 --> 00:53:17,153

in season one, you can't take the laundry

away until I've folded it all because I

:

00:53:17,173 --> 00:53:19,513

need the validation that I've completed

:

00:53:19,743 --> 00:53:20,563

Sara: right.

:

00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:24,200

Lacey: so then, so if I am

folding, I usually fold on our bed.

:

00:53:24,500 --> 00:53:27,730

but I was folding in their room because

I was trying to make their lives easier.

:

00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:28,630

It's fine, whatever.

:

00:53:28,900 --> 00:53:30,920

And, And the kids get on the bed.

:

00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:36,980

I'm like, do not touch the laundry because

I just don't want, it's my personal

:

00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:40,740

feelings and it will cause me harm.

:

00:53:41,530 --> 00:53:44,100

but now that I'm done

with it, okay, whatever.

:

00:53:44,140 --> 00:53:46,990

I've emotionally removed

myself from that situation.

:

00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:51,440

Sara: Well, you, you may want to

verbally pass the baton to someone else.

:

00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,550

if everyone's been scared away

from touching the laundry, if it's

:

00:53:54,550 --> 00:53:59,860

mom's project, there may be some

miscommunication over whose turn it

:

00:53:59,955 --> 00:54:02,105

Lacey: I think it's very generous

for you to say that's what

:

00:54:02,105 --> 00:54:02,695

you think's happening here.

:

00:54:03,485 --> 00:54:08,285

Sara: I am trying to relate it back to

home CEO and looking at the steps in

:

00:54:08,285 --> 00:54:11,035

the flow and where the hiccup may be.

:

00:54:11,775 --> 00:54:12,175

Lacey: Yeah.

:

00:54:12,465 --> 00:54:15,775

we like to end our episodes

with a moment of gratitude.

:

00:54:16,241 --> 00:54:18,781

So I am sharing the middle.

:

00:54:18,821 --> 00:54:22,031

I've been doing conversations

with people in my life, to

:

00:54:22,251 --> 00:54:23,411

explore different parts of it.

:

00:54:23,731 --> 00:54:28,061

And, I think when this comes out,

the part two of my friend, Emma, we

:

00:54:28,061 --> 00:54:32,241

talk about being lifelong friends

and going through girlhood and like

:

00:54:32,521 --> 00:54:35,821

seeing each other in different phases

of our life and that kind of stuff.

:

00:54:36,151 --> 00:54:37,991

you know, when you talk to

someone and it just builds up.

:

00:54:37,991 --> 00:54:41,711

brings them back into your orbit

more, which is great because Emma

:

00:54:41,711 --> 00:54:42,901

lives like five minutes away.

:

00:54:43,261 --> 00:54:47,221

So she, took me to Costco last

week cause Costco is a hard

:

00:54:47,221 --> 00:54:48,481

thing for me to do by myself.

:

00:54:48,481 --> 00:54:52,231

We went together so she could help me

with all the big boxes and, getting

:

00:54:52,231 --> 00:54:54,161

it from my, her car to my house.

:

00:54:54,381 --> 00:54:54,911

Great.

:

00:54:55,406 --> 00:54:56,286

Great thing.

:

00:54:56,306 --> 00:54:57,086

Very helpful.

:

00:54:57,246 --> 00:54:58,946

This week, Carolyn wants to go with me.

:

00:54:58,946 --> 00:55:01,576

So we've got that coming up.

:

00:55:01,996 --> 00:55:07,776

But, as a beyond just our Costco

run, I also had lunch yesterday

:

00:55:07,786 --> 00:55:11,596

with one of our friends from high

school, who she's still very close

:

00:55:11,596 --> 00:55:13,656

with, came into town from Chicago.

:

00:55:14,006 --> 00:55:17,806

And then we brought in another friend

who, Was in our, she was in our friend

:

00:55:17,806 --> 00:55:19,996

group and she, just lost touch apparently.

:

00:55:19,996 --> 00:55:22,036

She only lives like five

minutes away as well.

:

00:55:22,316 --> 00:55:29,160

So we all had brunch and it was It's

so nice to just be with a certain

:

00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:33,400

set of people that you're like, Oh,

we all just know each other and this

:

00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,820

just feels so good and so right.

:

00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:41,200

And you're giggling like you were

when you were 17 about stupid stuff,

:

00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:44,120

but then also joking about how now.

:

00:55:44,570 --> 00:55:48,810

Orange juice gives you heartburn, it

just, it was really lovely and beautiful

:

00:55:48,810 --> 00:55:54,320

and it brought me so much joy, in so many

ways, because I, not that I didn't have

:

00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:58,270

lovely friends in high school or anything

like that, I have really separated myself

:

00:55:58,270 --> 00:56:02,280

from that period of time because of like

my own relationship with myself and so

:

00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:08,500

it just felt good to also reconnect with

that fun person that I was then, too.

:

00:56:08,510 --> 00:56:11,370

So now that I'm not fun now,

I'm just saying, just to get

:

00:56:11,390 --> 00:56:13,290

different parts of me back.

:

00:56:13,456 --> 00:56:14,466

Sara: I love that.

:

00:56:14,466 --> 00:56:17,306

I, yes, I know that feeling so well.

:

00:56:17,306 --> 00:56:21,656

I have a friend I've known

since sixth grade and we are

:

00:56:21,656 --> 00:56:22,766

not in sixth grade anymore.

:

00:56:22,766 --> 00:56:24,216

So it's been many years.

:

00:56:24,226 --> 00:56:24,256

Yes.

:

00:56:24,306 --> 00:56:24,956

And.

:

00:56:25,476 --> 00:56:29,126

Yeah, every time we have one of those

really great conversations, it just feels

:

00:56:29,126 --> 00:56:35,066

so full, like this person knows what I

was like then, and still knows me, and

:

00:56:35,186 --> 00:56:37,996

it does, it has such a unique feeling,

:

00:56:38,441 --> 00:56:40,151

Lacey: it's just good for your soul.

:

00:56:40,161 --> 00:56:43,641

there was just something and

there was also just something so

:

00:56:43,731 --> 00:56:47,251

lovely about falling back into.

:

00:56:47,996 --> 00:56:50,486

being the people who we were,

I'm a little different now.

:

00:56:50,536 --> 00:56:52,636

I was the mama bear of the group.

:

00:56:52,636 --> 00:56:55,296

And so I've let back on that a little bit,

:

00:56:55,296 --> 00:56:57,916

there just was so many things

that I'm like, Oh, this just

:

00:56:57,916 --> 00:57:00,736

feels so nice and so full.

:

00:57:00,766 --> 00:57:03,336

And, gosh, brought me so much joy.

:

00:57:04,076 --> 00:57:07,536

Sara: oh, I love that, and I do want to

make a little side note, funny story,

:

00:57:07,536 --> 00:57:11,576

when you were talking about how you went

to Costco together, I was reading on

:

00:57:11,576 --> 00:57:15,021

threads, I'm at a stage in my life where

I don't want a friend that I can go to

:

00:57:15,021 --> 00:57:17,731

the bars with and stay out full midnight.

:

00:57:17,791 --> 00:57:21,191

I want a friend that I can

run errands with on a Saturday

:

00:57:21,191 --> 00:57:22,511

and make it a good time.

:

00:57:22,811 --> 00:57:25,551

And I'm like, Oh, you

have an errand friend.

:

00:57:25,905 --> 00:57:29,625

Lacey: Joe and I, running errands with

Joe, like if he and I have a day together,

:

00:57:29,635 --> 00:57:30,775

the two of us, that's what we do.

:

00:57:30,785 --> 00:57:35,465

Like we go to HomeGoods and we putz

around and, run to different places.

:

00:57:35,515 --> 00:57:38,745

And it's my favorite thing to, it's

our favorite thing to do together.

:

00:57:39,105 --> 00:57:44,405

So I feel that to my core of

how much joy you can get from

:

00:57:44,715 --> 00:57:46,025

just doing errands with someone.

:

00:57:46,565 --> 00:57:47,445

Sara: That makes me happy.

:

00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:47,845

Lacey: Good.

:

00:57:47,845 --> 00:57:48,715

That's the purpose.

:

00:57:48,825 --> 00:57:49,465

That's the point.

:

00:57:50,205 --> 00:57:52,505

Sara: and then you said Carolyn

wants to go with you next week.

:

00:57:52,535 --> 00:57:56,590

I pictured, remember back in

the day, dance cards that women

:

00:57:56,590 --> 00:57:57,620

would tie to their wrists.

:

00:57:58,210 --> 00:58:00,980

I was picturing you having an errand card.

:

00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:02,990

You're like, who's going

to go with Costco to me?

:

00:58:02,990 --> 00:58:05,200

Lacey: I've been reading a lot of

historical romance, so you know

:

00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:06,950

I roll up on the dance cards.

:

00:58:07,250 --> 00:58:10,250

But, I know, I'm so in, I'm so in demand.

:

00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:12,520

People want to run errands with me.

:

00:58:13,155 --> 00:58:15,095

Sara: who wants to go to Costco with me?

:

00:58:15,145 --> 00:58:16,565

Oh, I'm full.

:

00:58:16,565 --> 00:58:17,765

Check back next month.

:

00:58:18,103 --> 00:58:19,463

Lacey: we can't go every week.

:

00:58:19,463 --> 00:58:20,913

It has to be every other.

:

00:58:20,963 --> 00:58:21,503

Okay.

:

00:58:21,503 --> 00:58:22,663

That's just too much.

:

00:58:22,723 --> 00:58:25,513

Sara: Let's see my moment of gratitude.

:

00:58:25,723 --> 00:58:28,413

Okay, yesterday was a beautiful day.

:

00:58:28,633 --> 00:58:29,973

we went to this trail.

:

00:58:29,993 --> 00:58:31,073

It's this really nice 1.

:

00:58:31,073 --> 00:58:32,353

2 mile trail.

:

00:58:32,353 --> 00:58:35,693

It's paved and even, but

it's, you go through a lot of

:

00:58:35,693 --> 00:58:38,213

wetlands and it's just so nice.

:

00:58:38,233 --> 00:58:39,503

And yesterday was so beautiful.

:

00:58:39,503 --> 00:58:47,833

So we went, my son and my dog, and my son

was actually curious about Lots of things.

:

00:58:47,833 --> 00:58:50,843

what's that tree and Oh, look at that bug.

:

00:58:51,123 --> 00:58:53,083

Like it's, it was shimmering.

:

00:58:53,093 --> 00:58:55,173

It was an iridescent green.

:

00:58:55,203 --> 00:58:57,003

What's that bird calling right now?

:

00:58:57,003 --> 00:59:00,243

And it was re and so the whole walk.

:

00:59:00,263 --> 00:59:03,613

And it's interesting because

since he was little, I've been

:

00:59:03,613 --> 00:59:04,833

pointing stuff out like that.

:

00:59:04,833 --> 00:59:06,703

But at a certain point

it was like, Oh, okay.

:

00:59:06,703 --> 00:59:07,793

I'm just babbling.

:

00:59:07,803 --> 00:59:09,603

And then it came back.

:

00:59:09,623 --> 00:59:12,948

And I was like, Oh, he actually

wants to talk about this stuff.

:

00:59:12,978 --> 00:59:17,258

And so we spent the whole

walk pointing out ducks and

:

00:59:17,368 --> 00:59:19,998

trees and looking for snakes.

:

00:59:20,218 --> 00:59:22,068

and I was like, oh, my heart was so full.

:

00:59:22,068 --> 00:59:25,758

And then we got to the end and

he goes, that was really nice.

:

00:59:25,828 --> 00:59:27,078

And I was like, oh my gosh.

:

00:59:27,418 --> 00:59:29,568

Not only did he ask me

questions, he enjoyed it.

:

00:59:30,308 --> 00:59:32,518

And it was, it made my heart happy.

:

00:59:32,548 --> 00:59:33,728

So it was just a nice

:

00:59:34,098 --> 00:59:34,998

Lacey: much for you.

:

00:59:35,148 --> 00:59:36,288

I love it so much.

:

00:59:37,028 --> 00:59:39,008

It's not for me, but love it for you.

:

00:59:39,488 --> 00:59:41,338

I don't hate outdoors.

:

00:59:41,368 --> 00:59:43,498

I just I want to sit on the porch.

:

00:59:43,578 --> 00:59:45,858

Like I need to be able

to go inside easily.

:

00:59:46,298 --> 00:59:50,153

I have been on a journey to make my

back porch essentially a place that

:

00:59:50,153 --> 00:59:53,748

I can lay down in multiple places

and we are almost all the way there.

:

00:59:53,768 --> 00:59:56,408

So that's another big thing

that's been happening here.

:

00:59:57,148 --> 00:59:59,768

Sara: I do have to say when you said

that about the porch, that reminds

:

00:59:59,768 --> 01:00:01,438

me of Sarah from Participant One.

:

01:00:01,708 --> 01:00:07,368

They bought one of those, you can put

it on your deck and it's semi enclosed.

:

01:00:07,378 --> 01:00:11,168

It's got a roof and then you can

draw the curtains open and close.

:

01:00:11,178 --> 01:00:11,568

So if you

:

01:00:11,603 --> 01:00:13,753

Lacey: a pergola, like

a pergola type thing.

:

01:00:13,938 --> 01:00:17,048

Sara: yeah, it's, she's it's

like I'm outside, but I'm not.

:

01:00:17,788 --> 01:00:19,408

Lacey: Man, we are one of the same.

:

01:00:20,148 --> 01:00:21,338

We are birds of a feather.

:

01:00:21,368 --> 01:00:21,948

There we go.

:

01:00:22,008 --> 01:00:24,158

Cause she also is not a bird gal either.

:

01:00:24,208 --> 01:00:26,418

that's what I want to, like

being outside, but not.

:

01:00:26,458 --> 01:00:27,268

That's for me.

:

01:00:28,008 --> 01:00:28,088

Sara: not.

:

01:00:28,088 --> 01:00:28,658

Let's be honest.

:

01:00:28,738 --> 01:00:29,468

But not.

:

01:00:30,258 --> 01:00:33,358

Lacey: I have gotten joy from

talking to you today, Sarah.

:

01:00:34,098 --> 01:00:35,028

Sara: Thank you, Lacey.

:

01:00:35,063 --> 01:00:36,113

Lacey: Thank you, Sarah.

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