Kristen Hamborg is six weeks out of a 25-year corporate interior design career — and she's never looked back. In this episode Kristen shares how burnout, a pandemic pivot, and a coaching certification she pursued on the side slowly shifted everything. Unlike most escapees who get pushed out Kristen made the decision herself — and she'll tell you exactly what it took to get there.

This one is for anyone still in corporate feeling the slow fade of work that used to light them up.

What You'll Learn

🎯 How Kristen recognized the burnout before it broke her — and what finally pushed her to act

🎯 Why she pursued a coaching certification during the pandemic and what it unlocked

🎯 How every single client she has landed came through referrals — no ads, no cold outreach

🎯 The identity shift that happens when you leave a career that defined you for 25 years

🎯 Why creativity isn't just art — and how corporate professionals are more creative than they think

🎯 What it actually feels like in the first six weeks — the excitement, the fear, and the glass case of emotions

🎯 Why you don't have to do this alone — and why the right community changes everything

🎯 How Kristen is already thinking big with her first virtual retreat just months into her solo journey

Key Quotes

"If your gut is telling you something is off — it is off. Don't sit in it alone." — Kristen Hamborg

"We all have this fear of not enoughness. But you have to get there and trust that you can do it." — Kristen Hamborg

"Comfortable isn't always good. Getting outside your comfort zone is where the growth happens." — Kristen Hamborg

About Kristen Hamborg

Kristen Hamborg is a coach and feng shui practitioner helping women navigate major life and career transitions. After 25 years in corporate interior design she made the leap to build something of her own — six weeks in and already building toward her first virtual retreat.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristenhamborg/

📧 kristen@studioofyou.com

Connect With Brett

If Kristen's story resonated and you're ready to stop watching from the sidelines — The Escapee Collective is the community built for corporate professionals who are done waiting and ready to build something of their own.

👉 Join us at theescapeecollective.com

Get Busy Living.

Hi, Kristin, welcome to the Corporate Escapee Podcast.

Hi Brett, I'm excited to be here today.

I am excited. I always like when we have some newer escapees to share their story because everything's fresh, right? It's been six years for me. to get some, walk me back down the timeline a little bit is always exciting. And I'm just so happy for folks when they finally do make it out that, you know, it's something to celebrate. So maybe to kick us off, just share with the audience a little bit about you and what you're working on today. But then I do want to go back to your

escapee journey.

Sure. Well, you have been six years away. I am six weeks away. yeah. It's a very recent launch for me. It was a journey to get here for sure. I left a corporate workplace interior design position. I've worked corporate design for...

Okay, perfect.

25 plus years and over time I grew out of a design role and more into a, I guess a technical role from the sense that after the pandemic happened, we weren't designing office space anymore. A lot of people went remote and our roles changed quite a bit. They became much more data-driven and functional versus creative.

the work just wasn't as fun.

I loved what I did. I love the people I worked with. And with that change, I decided to start pursuing other interests for myself. And along the way, I pursued a coaching certification and a feng shui certification, which were things that actually really excited me and reconnected me to the creative side of me again that I had last touched with.

That was the beginning of the journey towards leaving corporate, but it didn't happen right away.

Yeah, no, and it really does. But it's funny. You do find these little things because before I left corporate or actually corporate kicked me out, I had started a podcast. So something was missing. There wasn't right. was the same old thing. It sounds like you went and got a coaching certification. So something must have been in your back of your mind. You were searching for something. Maybe you didn't completely realize it. So when how long ago did you?

Perfect segue. So how long ago was it when you actually started and got that certification?

And it started late in 2020. And it was something that truly the pandemic created the opportunity. It was a person I had been following for years who only did in-person instruction. I just, know, small children and work, I wasn't in that space of taking time off to go do in-person trainings. It felt selfish, honestly, to do something like that. But when she went virtual, I signed up immediately.

was incredibly excited. I was very familiar with their work at that point. that was the beginning of a big transition for me. Opened my eyes up to new opportunity, things that I hadn't even thought of, up to that point.

Yeah, and so that was, and did you start, did you land a client? Well, let me take a step back. So, all right, you got certified. What was, I know pandemic created a lot of different scenarios, right? So were you thinking maybe I will go out on my own or this was just something you were testing?

You know, at the time, wasn't an urgency. worked with, through the whole program, we actually worked with clients and I discovered how fun and rewarding it was. And it was creative, which was not something I expected, but it's a very in the process moment. And I started to see how my skills as a designer actually applied to coaching because a good designer asks good and deep questions and

that's what coaching is. It's about leading the person to their own, you know, their own path forward. And it was just eye-opening to me how there were relationships that overlaps between two very different roles. But my transition to actually wanting to go out on my own was slow just because...

Personally, I was very, very embedded in I'm trained as an interior designer. That was an identity for me. I didn't realize it at the time, but it was actually kind of the core of who I was. It's how I kind of defined how I showed up in the workplace. And there was a little bit of a shift of mine, not a little, it was a big shift of mindset for me to realize that I could do something different, be somebody different and take a path that was just as rewarding.

if not more rewarding?

And it's such a good message because even when I left corporate, I was still defined by that job title, right? I just was doing it on my own, that job title. wasn't until I was out for a couple of years that the world kind of woke up for me and said, all right, man, it's great to get my time back, right? Well, actually I can't even remember when I had time in the corporate world because everything revolved around that job, had the flexibility, I could choose who I work with.

Mm-hmm.

Right. was getting healthier again. Right. I was in a bad mental place by the end of that corporate role that I didn't realize. And like I said, the fact that you actually recognized it ahead of the time puts you light years ahead of most of us. Because it's until we get kicked out or something that jump starts it. But I'm wondering if it was because you were a creative and maybe over corporate, it started to tamp down that creative. And then all of a sudden you get to rediscover it again.

Mm-hmm.

I find a lot of escapees, me being one of them, are like closet creatives. I didn't realize how important that was to me until I actually can do a podcast. I can write, I can do TikTok. And I know that's not traditional creative, but it's, yeah, it's kind of crazy.

Exactly.

Well, I think that's the myth behind creativity because creativity is building something. It's making something. It doesn't have to be art or music or theater. Creativity is, mean, you can create impact. You can create an intentional new business. Creativity is just problem solving to get to an end result, basically. And I think that's where some people don't think that way.

Yeah.

And even going, digging in a little bit on post-creative, some of the things maybe you were looking for, again, because when I left corporate, it was just, I just wanted to make more money. It wasn't until later that I kind of figured out the balance and re-found purpose or still searching for purpose as it goes. But I'm a hundred percent bought in on that. And so I'm just kind of curious when you started, you got the certification, are you going through the program? Where were you in, again, financial?

What?

Most of us are tied to a financial piece. We just can't walk away and go do exactly what we want for no money because it just doesn't, life doesn't work that way for at least, right? So were you starting to realize in the job and maybe when it, you know, the pandemic was starting to slow down that you weren't getting out of the job or what? I don't wanna put words in your mouth. What were you kind of thinking as that started like 2020, 2021? Where were you?

of something.

Yeah, so like I said, originally I did not intend to leave right away. And it wasn't until about two years ago that the itch really started to kind of, you know, be in the back of my mind that I would really like to make Blanche. We've had two kids in college. So, you know, I was hesitant to jump into it, but one of them has recently graduated and the other one's halfway through.

Um, and honestly, I, it, feels like a calling to me to be of service to others, to help other people grow. And, um, you know, my husband and I just talked about it and, know, we made a decision to make some shifts in our, you know, family for a year. I'm also working with a business coach to help make connections. And, you know, that is my investment to help grow my business at, um, at a speed and scale that

isn't just a one-off here and there. So I'm in a program right now in order to do that, but it's going to take time. I know it's not something that's going to happen right away, but we're prepared to be patient and work our way there.

Yeah, that's awesome. And again, you had the planning process, right? Where, and there's something to be said for when you get kicked out and you don't have a plan that creates a sense of urgency. But I'm more, I've definitely come around to plan for the worst, hope for the best. And you just might like what you're doing. Because for a lot of us, right, with what you're doing, I'm curious, did you start doing any coaching on the side or just one office with folks?

Thanks

all along.

gotcha. Okay, so let's let's go back to that then. So when did you when did you get your first coaching client?

I have had one off here and there all ever since I got I was sort of certified and I've also been doing some mentoring on the side as well and

Okay.

The challenge for me was there are two different energies and there are two different mindsets. last year was a really hard year at work for my team that I worked with. They did the return to office and our team was key in integrating that, creating that space to allow people to come back into the office. it was...

exhausting work. It was very, very exhausting and it wasn't heavily supported. And it just got to the point where I was like, it didn't, it didn't bring the value to, you know, the day to day like it did in the past. And it wasn't, like I said, the people I loved working with, it was just the work had changed. And that was more it and it was time to move on just from that standpoint.

And I think too, you probably got a taste of it doing some of the coaching clients. How did you find your first couple of clients? Was it just referrals? Because people always ask, they want to know how you got the first client.

Yes. I will say every single one of them has been a referral. Yes, it's been, they have been, you know, blessings in that way. I have not to this point put myself out there in a heavy sense yet. That is coming. But they have come to me through support and recognition from others.

Okay.

And again, that's the thing I've found with this is most of us don't need like a million clients. Now with the escapee, it's growing it a little bit differently. But short of that, everything else I've done, we just need a few folks, right? It's three, two, three, four, depending on how much you're charging, that it makes sense. So the referrals, I think I talked to folks in the fractional community, I talked to folks in the consulting, like 90%, even if you've got your own book or podcast,

90 % are coming from referrals anyway. I guess my next question back is, did you just let a few close friends know that you were starting to coach? How did you, because I think that's where people were even afraid to mention that I'm even thinking about coaching. So you must have told somebody that you're thinking about this, right? Okay.

Right.

I did. have college friends connecting back with some people from my sorority house, former coworkers posting on LinkedIn. The support has been really, really generous and kind.

That's awesome. And I think that's what people I tell people to think back when you start to reconnect. Start with folks that you'd want to touch base. Maybe I'm talk to him in two, five, 10, 15 years and have that conversation. One, you're going to reconnect with them, figure out what they're up to. They may or may not be able to help you, but it's much easier than just going in transactionally and say, I'm going to go back and talk to all my network and ask them. And they can give me right coaching kind of like we do with job searches. Unfortunately, we

We only reach out. And I think doing what you did makes sense. Just reconnect, find out what they're up to. You know, a couple of, hey, I'm thinking about doing some coaching. I'm doing some coaching. The next thing you know, you've got a couple of referrals and then a couple of referrals. They just, it just kind of builds off of that.

Right.

Yeah, I haven't gone a TikTok path like you did.

Yeah, that's still one of the more craziest things that's happened. But again, that's just putting yourself out there and see what happens. I guess the next, I'm sorry to ask you all these questions, because I get these all the time, but how did you know how much to charge the first client? Did you undercharge? Did you do some research or how did you come up with pricing?

and bye.

Yeah, I trust my gut on that. You know, I, it's one of those things that it's a learning exercise for sure. Um, but you know, I just looked at my work experience and this is part of the, mean, I've, I have worked with a business coach for quite some time and, you analyze my skillset and what I bring to the table and how, how I can support others. And, and I'm working more in a package situation, you know, like when you work with me, you work with me over time.

So it's not an hourly situation or anything like that. So it is kind of strange. It feels a little arbitrary in some ways, but you got to start somewhere and go from there.

Yeah, no, it makes again, that's why I tell people all the time. The first, your first engagement on care, if you're doing fractional work, anything coaching, you're going to undercharge. You just are. And it's okay because I think the other mindset that I had to shift and you may be going through this now is right. Corporate teaches you not to make mistakes. couldn't make a mistake designing those offices, right? Or, you know, so you had to overanalyze and just be super conservative with everything.

Right.

Here, right, if that package didn't work out right, you can go redesign your package or you're gonna get feedback from clients that said, but be helpful if we could go down this type of path. But yeah, that's what I encourage folks to just be open because it's gonna be hard. It took me four years to figure out to be open and flexible versus for saying, mean, cause it's hard to undo 20, 25 years of corporate structure.

You

If.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, there is an identity shift for sure. And some deconditioning in a way of some of that corporate mindset because there's so much structure and just being tied to your desk and your computer and being visible. it's a very different shift to walk away.

Yeah, and we were talking a little bit before we record that you find yourself still working the same way that you do. So now you're a solo that you were in corporate and you're like, I gotta stop doing this. And I kind of chuckled because I'm like, yeah, I've been there, done that for sure.

Yeah, no, very intentionally, I caught myself last week. I'm like, I'm still working the exact same way and I don't need to. And so my mission this week is to get out of the house and go work in other places. And I don't even have to be on my computer. So yeah, I'm shifting things up at this point.

And what, and be curious and maybe I'll come back to you when, you know, in a few months, once you get settled too, but, uh, cause I went through a process when I left that I was doing more and it was scattered, right? I was working more hours, getting less done because all of a sudden you've got, control your entire calendar, right? The good, the bad, and you feel guilty if you're not working because you don't have enough clients yet. And so it just, and then I went over index the other way and then over scheduled everything down to like,

Thanks.

the half an hour and that was again, that was worse than corporate and then ultimately settled on some time blocks, right? So I'm, I'm super productive in the morning. I'll do a couple hours and then I'll walk up to the gym for, you know, 90 minutes every day. So I'm getting out of the office literally before nine o'clock or eight o'clock in a lot of cases. So yeah, take advantage of it, right? That's the easier said than done. But yeah, once you get into that routine, it's going to be super helpful.

Yes.

Yeah.

And again, you don't even have to work to your point in the computer. But again, I like the work I'm doing, so don't mind spending the time doing it. All right, so let's go back. You've got a few clients and as I'm starting to, when I chat with folks, it's kind of those three stages of escapism, right? The first one is you realize corporate's broken or it's not working for you anymore. Two, you start to realize, one, there's something else out there.

and maybe I could do it, but you didn't have the confidence yet. And then the third one, I call it the risky business moment, right? Where Joel, Tom Cruise character just says, what the F? Sometimes you just gotta say that and go, right? And to me, that's the, why not me? Why not do this? It's really hard for people to get to that point. So you obviously cross that path and I know that that's what you help people with. So two part question one is,

It is. It is.

What was that moment for you? What was that that led you to that? And then how do we, if folks are still in corporate, get through this part?

Okay, first part, how did I get to that?

How I got to that was I was burnt out last year. I reached complete exhaustion and it wasn't sustainable. I didn't like being tired. I didn't like the fact that I felt like I was pushing through every day. Honestly, we went to Italy for our daughter's graduation and we took her to do some traveling because she hadn't had a chance to get to Southern Italy and I was exhausted.

did the entire trip. Literally pushed myself through every day. I enjoyed it completely, but I knew that physically this wasn't worth it anymore. what work had used to light me up and make me really happy, wasn't doing that anymore. So awareness was the first part.

and then recognizing the time of year. And I was like, I was too tired. It wasn't time to jump into the next thing yet. So I got through the holidays and honestly, after the first of the year, kind of everything went, everything's been on fire this year, right?

all around the world. And it was time. I realized that I could help other people more transition to where they want to be than keep going through the same day to day. so that's really truly the driving force. I felt like I had been reinvigorated. I was ready to go again. So I did take the leap. It was exciting at that point, exciting, scary.

Yeah.

That was the first part of your question. The second part of your question was.

And now that you've gone through it and this is how you coach folks, like I said, you probably would have been super helpful for me a number of years ago as we are, as we talk through this. And I think many of us that are coming out of corporate are afraid to be okay with not knowing, right? You talk about the glass case of emotion. I joke about it, right? In any given day you're like, it's the greatest thing I did. What the hell did I do? Why am I doing this? I should have done this 10 years ago. So a hundred percent get it, but

Yeah.

So one, what have you learned through the process? And two, as you've been working with other folks, what are you learning? What are some lessons that are, from folks that are hitting that burnout point in corporate right now to help you think through that or make that transition?

Well, and you might, whether you're in burnout or not, you might just have an inkling that something isn't right anymore. I think that you reach a point that, you know,

You might be incredibly proud. have been incredibly proud of the career and the work that I've done over life. I never wanted to burn anything down at all. I've loved what I have done. And I think that was really important for me to transition in a way that I'm really grateful I did get to make the decision versus they making the decision for me. Because I know that is not the case for a lot of people. But.

Right.

I think the biggest thing is just being willing to take the risk and trust that the work that all the skills that I've gathered, you know, that is one of the things that, you know, working with a coach myself has helped me, you know, break down, you know, all the skills that I have learned and the relationships I have built and the opportunities that I have had all make me who I am today and give me something to offer that's different than

just me being an interior designer, truly breaking down my role.

I help see the possibility in a problem and then I'm able to hold that time till you get to the end result. And that is always as a creative person, been my passion in the work. It hasn't been the stereotypical thought of what a designer does. It's really problem solving. And holding that for others is incredibly rewarding.

and helping them work and find out what that path is for them because everybody's path is different. And to hold that space for them is a very rich and exciting experience to hold.

Yeah, and I don't think enough people talk about, again, I'm guilty of burning. Well, they kicked me out, so I can't say I burned down corporate, but I have been anti-corporate just because of the way they treat people now. And again, you may have been in a good situation, but like Oracle, emailing 20 year veterans of the company and saying your job's been, I'm like, got it. They just dehumanize this whole thing. And again, if you go into it with your eyes wide open and realize your corporate is now a transaction.

and that transaction works for you, good, but you and I both came up when companies did care about you more, right? Especially if you're in the right teams and the right groups of teams, there was.

It's changed quite a bit in the last several years.

I agree 100 % with you. I to go back to, because you mentioned your husband's on board with this, which I think is important, right? Because if you're fighting your spouse, your partner, and then you're doing this on your own, it can be really a difficult transition. And two, that you actually talked about, because I find a lot of folks just like, I'm going to do it. And I'm like, well, have you? Again, there's a plan.

It is.

in

There's a goal, I think, where you try to get to. I I encourage everyone to know what your runway is, right? That even if you think you're going back into corporate, why not test this going solo path? people do, the thing we forget, that people actually do care what you have to say and value your experience and opinion. It didn't always seem like that when you get caught into the corporate. That you only have to be a couple of steps ahead of other folks to help them get through the process.

Like I said, with coaching, I give you all the credit in the world for doing that because you got to have the confidence that, right? Because you come from a corporate role and I know you probably did mentor and develop folks there, which is helpful. And I found mentoring when I exited to be a good thing as well. But man, it's scary, wasn't it? To say, hey, right? Do people even care what I have to say? And you found they do.

you

very

Yeah, and being visible, visibility is different walking away from corporate. In corporate, have this space that you just know what to do, you know? And you have this process and this way of going through things. And putting yourself out there is vulnerable, for sure. And I'm still tiptoeing my way around a lot of that. But I'm working with others. We're not meant to do this alone.

Yes.

Right.

corporate of babies for and that's my goal is to help you know women the same way as I don't want them to do this alone they don't need to do it no no I was just gonna say I think something else is like when you have your circle of people that you always know

Yeah, and you don't have to write. you're right, were, go ahead, sorry.

They might not necessarily support you in the way you want to be supported. They might, you know, put a little fear like, are you sure you want to do that? You know, are you sure that's the right path? And when you know in your heart you want to do something, you need to find the right people to help you support what you need to do. Or it's going to be hard to get there.

Yeah, no, 100 % right. Because a lot of the time it is done in isolation as we escape. Because I've had folks on the podcast that have been out for eight, 10 years, so OGs in this space. And they really didn't have anybody to talk to. And when I left six years ago, I didn't tell anybody. mean, the biggest mistake I made is I didn't tell anybody that this is what I'm doing. Why? I don't know. I wasn't going back to corporate, so why I didn't tell folks? I don't know why I didn't do that.

And you can get in your own head if you don't have somebody to talk to, especially somebody that's kind of gone through it or is going through it. Because, yeah, we've been we were raised staying corporate. It's safe, right? It's what you do. But but. But they went till they don't. And then, right, we just and I mean, I wrote on this in the past that once pensions, which I've never been eligible for a pension, pensions made sense. There's loyalty, right? You work for a company.

Right.

It's the path. It's what you do. Yeah, they'll take care of you. Yeah.

They pay you basically till you die. makes, now you depending on what you did in your 401k or how well the markets do and everything else, right? It's not, and then with longevity, right? If we can live to 95 healthy, it's a long time that that 401k that you probably put in for 20 years in corporate may or may not get you to the life that you want to live. So I just don't see the exit ramp from corporate unless you get to a level where you're comfortable, but

Ready?

Yeah.

You know, the data shows less than 20 % of the folks will actually be in that position. So you can choose to take the path that's gonna make sense or wait till they throw you on that path and try to figure it out. But long-winded answer to say, agree with you. Don't do this alone. You don't have to, right?

Yeah, no, definitely not. And comfortable isn't always good. Getting outside your comfort zone is where the growth happens. And if you're too comfortable and you're not happy, that's a huge message.

Right.

Yeah. And it was a while back now I had the author Michael Easter on the podcast who wrote the comfort crisis. And that's when I connected the dots of aha, right? Everything corporate is super comfortable. We may be completely unhappy burned out, but it's, we know how it works. We know show up, you sit on these meetings, you put in your two cents and you do a good job. But yeah, when you get comfortable, it's wasn't, you had to get comfortable being uncomfortable again.

and

like we were early in our career where you said, why the hell, why do we do this? Why aren't we doing this? And then you just slowly get put in that box. Then all of a sudden, now you can ask this again, right? And say, why not me? What's the worst thing that could happen if I try to bring on three clients? Nothing. Right? You go look for another corporate job if you want. like I I tell people all the time, it's easier to find that first customer than your next corporate job. And good luck finding one that you're going to like that the hours and the flexibility are right.

Mm-hmm.

All the stars aligned to tell you to go solo, but yet so few actually make that from stage two to stage three. So we're gonna have to get you in front of a lot more people to get them comfortable taking that first step into their escapee world.

Well, we all have, there's this fear of not enoughness that we all have. that's a big, like you said, why not? Why me? Why not? But you have to get there and trust that you can do it. And that's a path of learning and growth, but it's worth it.

Yeah. And I'll tell all these folks that have the 20, 25 years of experience. There's folks with zero experience that are out here doing what you should be doing. And because they're willing to have the conversation that they're willing to go put themselves out there to try this. And so I said, well, there's never been a better time for folks with our experience. And it may not be, like you said, you're not in, I love how you're connecting the dots, patusing, designing your life and, you know, interior design. I a hundred percent agree on that, but

You don't have to do what you were doing in your previous. You can take all that experience that you have and go figure out what's going to give you the energy. That's kind of the crazy thing for me. probably when you last, you and I talked a long, long, time ago. don't even then may even been pre corporate. was that long. But now energy is the thing that's guiding me more than anything else, which never would have been. You would have told me that six years ago. Like you're crazy. I'm going to follow the paychecks and the money, but.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

it changes and you gotta find that balance. And so I guess one last question for you, maybe a couple more is, so you've obviously had a roadmap, things you wanna accomplish, is your goal more balanced, what you wanna get out of this? What are you looking out, what are you most looking forward to going solo?

Well, right now, my big stretch is I am working towards hosting a virtual retreat. It's about four months out. I'm just in the first steps of it. And I'll be bringing in speakers. And it's kind of like a mini podcast series. I'll be interviewing other people just like we're doing right here. And I'm in the process of creating that and building it. And that'll be building my email list and connection through.

interviews with other people. So that's kind of my first big launch that I'm working towards right now. and trusting that

I will grow out of that. I know it's a challenging assignment to do all the work to get there. And then building my client base from there going forward, an email base, messaging, continuing that way. My goal is in addition to working with clients one-on-one, I love to get in front of people, do group trainings, group leadership scenarios. I would love to host virtual retreats down the line.

You know, baby steps to get there. Right now, I'm just building this. Getting this virtual retreat is my first big step, and I'll go from there.

That's awesome. Well, we'll have to have you back on when you get closer and you can talk about it because I think, because the other thing I appreciate what you're doing is you're thinking big, right? I mean, that's the, in your mind, maybe a virtual retreat isn't big, but a lot of people are like.

Nah.

No, this is definitely up my comfort zone, but I don't want to go small. I want to make a difference. That's my goal.

Yeah, that's awesome. And that's again, who's judging you? Nobody but you, right? And that's the hardest part is to and I have to remind myself, I'm like, I gotta start thinking bigger again, right? Because I do. Corporate escapee wasn't even a thing. Now it's a thing. And then I catch myself of just incrementally trying to improve versus how do I take the virtual retreat after this? Because I 100 % believe that there's in person with the collective that makes sense.

but I've never done it before. And so I'm not like you where I need to get some inspiration and say, you know what, I'm going to put the date in this summer. We're doing our first virtual event with this or not virtual. want to do an in-person event with this. So now I think that's another great lesson for folks because part, I'm sure some folks have, well, Kristen must've done virtual events before. I'm guessing you have not, no. And now you've broadcasted to the escapee universe. So.

This is my first black hat. I've never done this before. Yes, I did.

Right. But that's, that's what we should be doing is pushing the boundaries. And again, there was a book I read, Dan Sullivan, I think 10 X is easier than two X, right? Cause if you're just trying to double something, it's usually people just put in more work, but to 10 X it to create a virtual retreat with speakers, you got to think differently than the way you've thought in the past. And so, yeah, it is exciting. It's, I don't know. I'm, I'm super motivated and inspired by folks like you that keep pushing and

Yes.

reminding me that there's we got to do more and more. awesome. Any other advice? Anything else we didn't talk on for others that are still burnt out in their corporate job or driving back in their commute home thinking there's got to be something better.

I would say if your gut is telling you something is off, it is off and it's important. Don't sit in it alone. Definitely not, you know. Community is the way to grow. community has always been important to me. I think community is the way to grow. So listen to your internal message. It's telling you something.

100%.

And I think just to tie off on the people side, I think you're right because the more we get AI and social dominated, the human to human people, person to person is so much more valuable. And again, sometimes I think, am I just old thinking that? But no, I see my daughters craving the same thing with in-person and relationships and not just hiding and sitting behind their screen. So I think the world may be heading back and maybe you and I are out in the front end of this thing.

No, I do think people need people. And one of the things that I witnessed in the last five years at work, I used to meet people in person on my projects. at one point, I was like in front of the screen all day every day. And no more traveling, no more people to people contact. I know that's why they were bringing people back into the office. But travel still wasn't happening. It was still Zoom calls and.

Yeah.

conversations, but yeah, no, we need people, definitely.

Yeah, and the good thing going solo is you get to choose your people. Right? You can't choose your family like with coworkers, you can't choose them, but here you can absolutely choose. And I tell people all the time that one of the most underappreciated benefits of going solo is no toxic, right? Because I just refuse to work with any negative people, period, in the community, clients, guests, right? If anybody's...

Yeah, that's true. That's very true.

Just no thanks. And so having that cleaned out of your life, it's kind of crazy. Now I've met some folks that have good workplace environments and they don't have it. Seems to be few and far between, but again, you can't, this is your chance for you to choose everything. So, all right, Kristen, well, I want to wish you the best of luck. I know your journey's just starting, but I'm sure you're going to do some big things. And we'll check in. That's one thing I want to do with this podcast is keep checking in with folks.

Yeah, and I'd love to.

And if anybody now has heard your story and wants to connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

The two best ways to connect with me right now are, I don't even have a website yet, Kristen at studioofu.com and Kristen is K-R-I-S-T-E-N. Kristen at studioofu.com or on LinkedIn, Kristen Amborg. So that would be the best.

and we'll put that in the show notes for people as well. But yeah, go check her out and yeah, I appreciate the time. And like I said, best of luck with everything.

Yes, thanks. I really enjoyed being here. Take care.

Thanks, take care.