Joshua Noel, TJ Blackwell, and their special guest, Michael Morelli, dive into the captivating realm of fantasy video games in this inaugural episode of Gamer’s Garage. They kick things off by exploring the question: why are we so drawn to fantasy gaming? As they curate their own game recommendations, the trio reflects on how this medium shapes our understanding of themes like sacrifice and heroism, making the experience uniquely impactful. From nostalgic favorites to hidden gems, they share personal stories and insights about their gaming journeys, all while keeping the vibe light and humorous. This episode is a sneak peek into what promises to be an exciting series, blending thoughtful discussion with a relaxed, fun atmosphere.

In the debut episode of the Gamer's Garage, hosts Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell, along with guest Michael Morelli, embark on a lively exploration of fantasy video games. The trio kicks off with light-hearted banter, weaving personal anecdotes about their early gaming experiences with the original Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo consoles. They delve into their curated game recommendations, each bringing a unique perspective to the table. Joshua shares his love for Kingdom Hearts, a game that beautifully merges Disney with classic RPG elements while touching on themes of identity and friendship. Michael adds to this with his own picks, focusing on the narrative depth found in series like Fallout, which explores heavier themes of sacrifice and redemption. TJ stays more focused on Final Fantasy games. As the conversation unfolds, the hosts reflect on the transformative nature of gaming, where players actively engage with the story, making choices that resonate long after the game is over. This episode sets the stage for a promising series, inviting listeners to join them on future journeys through the realms of fantasy gaming.

Takeaways:

• In the inaugural episode of Gamer's Garage, the hosts dive into why fantasy gaming captivates players, exploring themes of identity and immersive storytelling.
• The trio discusses how video games uniquely convey narratives that resonate with personal experiences, especially through character sacrifices and choices.
• They curate a list of fantasy games, highlighting their favorites while debating the varied genres within fantasy gaming, from lighthearted to serious tones.
• The conversation touches on the evolution of gaming technology and storytelling, emphasizing how modern games allow for deeper emotional connections with characters.
• Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own gaming histories and how those experiences shape their engagement with storytelling in games.
• The episode ends with a fun recommendation segment, where the hosts suggest retro games that influenced their love for fantasy gaming.

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Why are we drawn to fantasy gaming? And how does experiencing world through video games impact how we receive the messages and themes of the medium?

Well, guys, so we're talking about today in a new series. Really? We're not starting the series for real till like, November or December.

So this is like a teaser for an upcoming series of Gamer's Garage on Systematic Geekology. I am one of your hosts, Joshua Null, here with the Pod Almighty, your favorite co host, the one and only tj, Tiberius Juan Blackwell.

How's it going, tj? Good. Yeah. And special guest. Incredible guest. Maybe. I hate to say it, Dr. Ord, but this might be the best guest we've ever had. Michael Morelli.

Wow. Wow.

Welcome to the show. Yeah. This is the first time you've been on cismic geology, Right?

I am so thrilled to be here. Yeah. Thank you. And I'll just try and live up to the hype.

I forgot Tom was on to do Minority Report. Yeah, yeah, that was crazy.

Well, then there's Trip Fuller. Tripp's been on a few times. I feel like I've insulted a few people today, but it's fine. Anything for Michael Morelli.

But speaking of, for those who don't know, I forgot to do this part, so I'm going to need your help. Michael, you're a professor of smart things at a smart place. What is it?

I love that introduction. Actually, I don't want to add or subtract anything from that. I just.

I'm like, this is one of my smart friends that's, you know, like my brain is like. That's how it goes.

You know, I. Not to demystify anything too much, but what I tell people about professors and people who have doctorates, at least in theology, because that's.

That's. That's the discipline that I work in, is that were very smart in a very particular, focused and narrow way and totally inept in others.

So you're like, oh, you got a doctor, you must be smart. I'm like, yeah, in a very specialized way. But I also need Google Maps to get everywhere because I have zero spatial awareness.

So, you know, if we got lost in the wilderness, I wouldn't be the type of person you'd want to be lost with. With that preface.

Yeah.

I'm so sorry. Associate professor of Theology and Ethics at a school called Northwest College and Seminary in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. Nice.

Yeah, super funny. If you're on a plane, you know, is there a doctor on board? You stand up. Not that kind of sorry.

It's me exactly Exactly.

Yeah. Well, for this series, instead of what we're geeking out on, we are going to start off with what? Something.

What is something that each of us might have to decorate Our gamers Garage. Man cave. She shed. Whatever gaming room you desire. You know what might you have to help decorate your space here? Honestly, I want something like.

I want like a little interactive Mr. Zircon somewhere from like the Ratcheting Clank games. I just think it would be so funny. It'd be great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dj, I'm not a decorations person. I mean, like, I got. I got pressured to put these hats on the wall. You know, that's the only thing on my wall as hats and a mirror.

And was that like mandatory flair for your podcasting?

It was just boring and this big, like, blank space here.

Right. So now you had to add a hat rack.

Had to have something.

Yeah, but you're not going to have.

Like a. I'm not a. I'm not a fashion over function person. Like, if I'm gonna put something up, I need it to do something.

So you might have a Halo Energy sword on the wall, but it's gonna be functional that you can take off and use?

No, realistically, I would probably like hang all my controllers up on the wall, like with a peg or something.

Yeah, that way you can, like take them off and use them.

Yeah, I like where we were both thinking. Anything else, Joshua?

Yeah, yeah.

Swords, throwing stars, nunchucks, all that sort of stuff in case there's, you know,.

Obviously have like a whole wall of keyblades that's happening.

I. You know, for me right now, I've been rewatching a lot of my favorite sort of 90s films and 80s films, so it's fresh in my mind.

But I'd have like movie posters of like the Goonies in ET Nice. Like all the. All the good Spielberg stuff. Indiana Jones just framed nicely, you know, not too much. Exactly. Just like that. Yeah, no, I've been.

Been watching those movies with my boys and they. They hold up. They hold up. Yeah. So. So maybe some other stuff too, you know, maybe some superheroes or something like that.

But definitely, definitely some good movie posters.

Yeah. Heck yeah, dude. All right with that then. Guys, if you're listening, please consider reading, reviewing our show.

Wherever you get your podcast, Apple Podcast, Spotify doesn those ratings help Our algorithms think that we're important so other people will find the show. So do that for us. Please also want to thank our financial sponsors. Today we're shouting out Daniel Sigman.

Daniel, you Rock man, we really appreciate you. If you guys want your own shout out, you can become an official member too. On Systematic ecology using our website that's in the show's description.

You have a link for that same website.

You can get extra free content, you can buy merch, you can leave a one time financial gift, all kinds of stuff without becoming a member if that's not your gig. Or become a member if it is your gig. You know, speaking of shirts, we got up right now one of our favorites, the Throne of Geeks T shirt.

And on the back I like shout out for this series because you got like the Buster sword from Final Fantasy 7. You got the Omni wrench, Ratchet Clank, you got a keyblade in there. You got an energy sword from Halo.

Like there's a lot of like video game references. Those aren't those weapons but they look really similar. So you know. Yeah, legally distinct but similar.

Not violating copyrights.

But do they think it's cool if you like games? I think there's a lot of good references. There's even like a little potential Pokemon reference. Maybe not quite but maybe so check it out.

There will eventually be a playlist for all the Gamer Garage episodes in the shows link. But this is the first episode so you won't have that for this one next time. You will.

And yeah, leave a comment somewhere, let us know what you thought about the first episode of Gamers Garage. So we know what we want to tweak, change, do better or do worse. If you're like this episode was too good, let us know. We can make it worse.

We'll have TJ on those episodes. He won't mind if we just said tj, the show's too good. You got to I can do it only half an episode at a time.

I can make it happen.

Yeah.

So with that though, we are going to go ahead and jump into our main topic which today pretty interesting, we're going to be talking about Asia genre of gaming.

So I think usually what we're going to do it's going to be kind of like our all reading counts episodes and we'll have our official members pick a game for us to discuss. But for this first episode kicking off we're going to talk about a genre of video games, the fantasy games.

So kicking it off with that before we get anything else. What's yalls history with gaming and fantasy games in particular? Y' all want to share anything or like arcade games even?

So if you have any experience arcades.

The PlayStation 1 was very adult oriented, I feel like. So I didn't get to play that much. But I had a Game Boy. I had The Spider Man 3 for the game Boy. They rocked. I remember that.

Eventually got a DS with Pokemon diamond and then Platinum and then Pokemon Black. No, Pokemon White. And then I think actually between them, I got my first console. I was 7 or 8 years old. It was an Xbox. The original Xbox.

It was the original Xbox and it rocked. Was playing it all the time.

There must have been some other reason that I wasn't playing the PlayStation 1, because the game I played the most on that Xbox was Torok. Torok Evolution. Extremely gory dinosaur killing game.

I remember that game.

They're remaking it. They're remaking it this year, next year. So I am looking forward to that. But nice. That's kind of what really kicked it off for me, fantasy wise.

I played my first Final Fantasy game on the DS, the DSI. And it was the Final Fantasy 4 remake. The Pixel Remaster is what they call it. Oh, it was. It's been there. It's been on my top 10 ever since then. Nice.

Nice. Yeah. I think myself, I don't know, we moved a lot when I was a kid. And my family are all from different states. Literally.

I'm from Tennessee, my brother's from Florida, my mom's from Virginia, my dad's from Kentucky. Literally all from different states. So there's a lot of driving when I was a kid. So I remember like having a Game Boy.

I remember being really excited when the Game Boy color came out. And I was like, this is incredible. You know, I'm a little old now, I guess, but it's fine. So, like the old Pokemon games I loved.

I remember the computer games I love. Like the Disney was like the Hercules and Aladdin and all that. And I had. My uncle would always come and he'd had to show me how to beat.

Like, I would get stuck and be like, uncle Chuck has to come. And like, I would bug my parents until we saw him because, like, I couldn't get past this. I was like, I'm just gonna wait till he does.

And you know, I like playing outside. So I just played outside till Chuck came and beat that level. And then I'd finish the game, you know, just how it worked.

I remember Hercules was so hard for me.

I don't know what it was that, that original PC Hercules game because it was like 2D, but I didn't realize there were some parts of that were 3D you can move back and forth on. And my little brain just did not, did not comprehend that.

Especially like back, back in the day. Back in your day when gas was like $2 a gallon, it was super easy to convince Uncle Chuck and go over it.

We got by on.

That's crazy. Yeah, I remember Rascal was one of my favorites on PS1. And then I remember playing Donkey Kong 64. I remember when the Xbox came out, I liked it. Okay.

Halo was really easy for me at that point. And then my parents didn't let me play a lot of the games because they said bad words and that's bad.

So then I ended up getting a PS2 and that's when I got Ratchet Link and Kingdom Heart for the first games. I feel like I remember caring about the story. Like up until then it was I want to hit buttons and, you know, smash things.

But like Kingdom Hearts, Ratchet and Clank came around. I was like, ratchet, Clank was just funny. So, yeah, I'm not skipping those scenes. They're gonna make me laugh. And then Kingdom Hearts was.

I grew up in Florida. This is Disney meets Final Fantasy. And I'm like, yeah, here for it, man. And I think that's when I went from like kind of casual.

I've spent most of my time playing outside until Chuck came and then I could play my games too. Probably about 50, 50 outside of gaming when I was a kid until games got too expensive. And then I stopped playing for a while.

Then I got a Steam deck last year and now I'm back in it. Back in it, baby. Michael, what about you, man?

Yeah, well, I think I'm a bit older than both of you. So I was born in 86. And I think the first fantasy game that I remember would be King's Quest 1 on the computer.

And you know, for the uninitiated, I mean, that goes way back, like early 90s. So, you know, move around with the keyboard arrows and the actions would be type based.

So this isn't as far back where it's all just like text based rpg.

Which is fun.

Yeah, which is also fun. But you know, there are graphics and back then they were amazing. Right? Like, and.

But it was all, yeah, you type in the commands and that actually the one of the games that I picked to talk about Today actually is by the same developer, Sierra Software. So they, they created a lot of really cool early RPG fantasy games.

But, but that, that sort of world was introduced to me in two ways in terms of Nintendo, like you know, console based gaming. We had a family friend and his name was Mr. Murray, Don Murray and his wife Cecile. And he was just like the cool family friend.

I mean he was kind of an unofficial grandpa for me and my brothers and he had a Nintendo and he had games though like Duck Hunt and Super Mario and he's a big wrestling fan. So, so wwf, like the original neswf. We also had some, some, some neighbors in, in small town Canadian town in northern B.C.

That had had game systems and I remember one night playing Final Fantasy 1 and I say playing, but actually it was my middle brother who played and I just watched and cheered him on because I'm the youngest of three boys so I did a lot of watching. But I think I first became a participant on Super Nintendo. When we got Super Nintendo for, for Christmas.

That was like, yeah, that to, to this day that was probably the best Christmas gift I've ever received.

And I've received some great gifts but I, I don't think I'll ever get back to that level of excitement and don't get when we opened that Super Nintendo.

So, so that was the console but in terms of computers actually was my dad, he was in public education for years and so he always had the latest computer and he was the one who would always research games and a lot of times would be RPG games, fantasy games, strategy games. I think probably to find alternatives to the shooting and killing stuff. You know, it's like, yeah, shooting is.

Bad, let's play Civilization.

Exactly. Yeah.

Actually, so no, I mean, you know, I've been playing Civilization since day one and you know, I think I got Civilization two as a birthday gift and that was the gateway drug for Civilization.

So are you caught up on like the newest one?

You know what, I actually, you know, it's funny generationally I bought my 9 year old civilization the latest one for Christmas. Although it's weird it's such a, I haven't played it. I'm sure it is, but it's weird. Like at this stage of my life I don't have a lot of time to game.

It's one of those things where usually when it's like Christmas holidays or summer holidays, maybe I'll game a little bit. But you know, by the time my kids are asleep it's typically like what do I have to Clean. What do I have to buy? What do I have to sign up for?

Or what show am I going to watch with my wife though? It's. I don't have a ton of time to game these days. But yeah, right now we have a lot of family Mario Kart tournaments and Smash Brothers. That's.

That's.

Oh, and Rocket League powder. How can a game insane like can be so addictive? It's cars hitting a soccer ball. But like you get so locked in on the game.

The, the impressive part is that you can be so bad at it and still have such a good time for sure.

Like my boys are way better than me. I'm just like, I'm the muscle. I just run into the other cars and explode them. And you get points for that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good stuff though. Good stuff. Yeah, I know finding time is hard and then my system not working great was hard.

So that's where like Steam Deck's probably my favorite gift I've ever received because like I didn't realize just the level of convenience and how much that makes it more likely that I game is like wait a minute, you mean I can just be on break at work and pick Up Final Fantasy 7? That makes it a lot more likely that I actually play it turns out. Or like I'm in bed, can't sleep. Let me just reach over. All right, let's go.

Yeah, that's great. But we want to talk about the final fan or Final Fantasy.

We talk about fantasy genre in gaming and I googled what the top selling fantasy games of all time were. I'm a list of them off here. What Google gave me. 6 Ish 6 or 10. It depends how you count all the original Pokemon games.

Red, blue, green, yellow, Skyrim, Diablo 3, Final Fantasy 7, the Witcher 3 and then Final Fantasy 10 10.

2 Should not be grouped together by the way. Completely different games.

Listen, I'm just telling you what Google's bad out at me man. Look as a whole, like are we surprised by this picks? Have we have any connection to any of these or say about these?

I think it's really funny that Diablo 4 is not on there just because it's not as good as Diablo 3. Most Diablo fans I know still play Diablo 3. Yeah, Skyrim, of course. No question. Of course it's there.

I think what it really speaks to is the scope of the fantasy genre. I mean Skyrim in Pokemon. What's so funny?

See those images next to each other.

What's similar between these two games? The Witcher and Pokemon.

Yeah, the Witcher in Final Fantasy. Like, what are we exactly?

It's. There is so, so much range in the genre that it. There's a reason that, you know, we call them high fantasy or science fantasy or classical fantasy.

Pokemon didn't even occur to me when we first said fantasy genre. But then, like, I'm like, I mean, that definitely counts. It just. My mind didn't go there.

Yeah.

I mean, I can attest to the fact that we did have a. I think it was a group chat via text where we were all talking about choosing our favorite games. And then you dropped this into the chat. We were like, does it count? We're like, yeah, yeah. That distracts out, like, what else would it be?

But it kind of feels like a standalone, like a genre unto itself. But yeah, I don't think there are any massive surprises here. Like, I. Skyrim was a possible favorite on my list, for sure. Diablo.

When I saw that, I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

But it wouldn't be my favorite necessarily, because the amount of thought and story that goes into the Diablo games isn't at the level of the other favorites that I have. Right. I mean, it's fun. It's kind of like Doom. You know, the Doom series, at least the early ones, you're like, you're playing that.

It's not for story or getting emotionally attached to the character. I want to kill something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fun. Like, yeah. So I never played Witcher. I did play Final Fantasy X. Good books, Final Fantasy 7.

But, yeah, no, I haven't played the Witcher.

Yeah, I haven't played the Witcher. I started reading the books, though. But the. Yeah, I think to me, Pokemon, Skyrim, Final Fantasy 7, I just assumed were going to be on there.

Like, those are all just like, staples in gaming community. I feel like the other ones I wasn't surprised by. I just. I don't personally have interest in them. I'm.

I mean, I probably play Final Fantasy X&X2 at some point, but, like, I literally just started playing Final Fantasy 7 like, a few weeks ago because of this. Like, I already had it downloaded and just hadn't started it. It was on sale around Christmas time for like $4. So I was like, yeah, I'll get that.

And then eventually I'll play the remake of Final Fantasy 7. And then now I am, and I'm like, dang, this story is incredible.

It really is. It's definitely like my top 10 Final Fantasy games.

God. Yeah, it's Crazy. But I also added other final fantasy games. TJ's. I have a lot of Final Fantasy games on my, my wish list on Steam.

One thing that didn't, that did surprise me is what wasn't there. There wasn't a single Zelda game in the top selling fantasy games of all time.

And like, to me, even though they're not my favorite, when I think of like fantasy video games, Zelda is one of the first things I think of just because it's so popular. Were you guys surprised it wasn't included?

A little. But then you, you got to realize who we're comparing it to there. It's called Final Fantasy.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's fair. Yeah. Like I think compared to Final Fantasy. Yeah. I think the reason none of them get above Skyrim or Pokemon.

Like I think it honestly there's just so many Zelda games. I think that's part of it. Honestly.

Yeah, I was surprised. Like Breath of the Wild, Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past.

I mean it's almost like you could track like an entire generation's, you know, developmental milestones according to, or maybe a certain segment of a generation. Like. But you know, it's. I guess maybe one way to think about it is like just what constitutes popular.

Like what's the, what's the criteria in terms of, you know, most units of a game sold versus impact on popular consciousness and impact on game design and storytelling. How do you assess the criteria for the latter? I don't know. But you know, like linked to the past.

A lot of people will say that that's one of the best RPG games, fantasy games of all time.

So yeah, it's definitely, I think a lot of it actually has to do with the console availability of everything else on the list.

Oh yeah, that makes sense.

For Breath of the Wild you've got Wii U which no one bought, and the Switch which really popular. But at first when Breath of the Wild came out, it still wasn't like in every home, not everybody had a Switch at the time.

Now I feel like most people kind of do. And it's hard for Nintendo to bridge that gap when they refuse to port their games to other companies systems.

The exception being Pokemon, because literally everyone had a Game Boy.

Yeah, that's the thing. Because it was like the only portable system at some point.

It, which is just wild,.

Tetris was number one now it's GTA 5.

That's. That's such a. That's such a hard pivot.

Such a. Yeah, I. Yeah, I agree. I think too, what's interesting, why people probably associate Zelda popularity, it's a much more extreme version of.

Obviously, I'm gonna talk about Kingdom Hearts, but it's like a much more extreme version of that where, like, I think the people who are fans of Zelda, similar to Kingdom Hearts, it's more than just a game. They're a lot more vocal about it. Like, Skyrim fiends love the Skyrim game, but they're.

You don't see that many times people going around in Skyrim T shirts or holding a Skyrim weapon. You'll see some people cosplay, like, if you go to, like, Comic Con and stuff.

But, like, it's not like, I just feel like Zelda and Kingdom Hearts fans are more vocal. There are definitely more Zelda fans than Kingdom Hearts, but, like, they're so vocal that I feel like it feels extra popular.

Because if you like Zelda, you love Zelda. I think that's the thing.

It's true. You don't see a lot of people with Skyrim tattoos, but you wouldn't be surprised to see somebody with a triforce tattoo.

Yeah.

Yeah. I've definitely seen more triforces than like, the Dragon emblem from Skyrim, but I have seen that emblem from Skyrim a few times. Yeah.

Yeah.

But I also Infernape tattooed on his hand, the Pokemon.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Rocks. Yeah. That's pretty incredible. All right, so now we're go through our actual picks, and we're trying to do this pretty quick.

We're not going to talk about each game. We're just going to kind of like. We curated. This is almost like the recommendation section. We just kind of curated some picks.

I didn't go with my favorites necessarily. Some of these are my favorites. But there's kind of like four games that popped in my head.

The original Kingdom Hearts, you got Final Fantasy meets Disney and a lot of questions about what it means to be who you are yourself. Fable 2. I love all the Fable series, but Fable 2 is when you kind of. You get guns, you get a pet dog.

It's just awesome gameplay and a lot of, like, interactive.

Like, my choices matter, not just to, like, what happens in the world, but also the story, what abilities I have, what weapons I'm able to use, that kind of stuff. So it's a lot of fun. Folklore, I feel like, is kind of One that probably not a lot of people remember. I had a lot of fun with it.

It's kind of like I got to dog on myself a little bit.

But it's kind of like edgy hipster Pokemon and you go into spirit realms and you're like capturing these spirits and then you're able to use their powers to fight things later on. Very similar to Pokemon in that way, but a lot edgier. And it's also a murder mystery, so the story is just more fun for me.

And then Trine 4, I love all the Trine series. It's just side scroller, but it's like 2 1/2d. Like that Hercules thing I mentioned confused me earlier.

But there's three main characters and it's like a puzzle game platformer. It's very fairy tale kind of fantasy. So it's fun in that way, but it's not like super deep. But the fourth one specifically, it just.

The art really stands out in that game. The music's beautiful, the puzzles are complex. It's just. It's a good game and a lot cheaper than the other games that I usually list. Yeah.

So those are my picks. We'll talk more about the genre as a whole.

It's just kind of like if I had to curate four games for you guys to play in the fantasy realm, that probably be what I'd go with. Michael Morelli, you want to. You want to talk about the four you got here?

Yeah, for sure. So I always have a hard time picking favorite anything because my tastes are broad and deep. So I kind of grouped into two main areas.

First would be fun creative fantasy role playing games, and then more serious creative fantasy role playing games. So in terms of the fun ones, I. I mentioned the Sierra Games developer and Space Quest.

I don't know if anybody listening will know Space Quest, but if you can get a chance to play it, I highly recommend it. It's similar gameplay to King's Quest, except it's sci fi fantasy.

And it features a main character named Roger Wilco who's a janitor on a spaceship and inadvertently finds. Who inadvertently finds himself needing to save the universe against aliens who have a technology that they want to destroy.

And I don't know what it was. It just invited me into that universe. And, you know, there's not like fighting.

It's just problem solving and character interaction and bargaining and puzzles and that sort of stuff. And that's similar to Monkey Island. Different kind of platform a little bit further along. But this is part of Lucasfilm's. Games.

And I think that I got it. When you know that there was always those deals back in the day. It's like you buy this computer and you get a game. Well, this came with it.

But it's like following an aspiring pirate named Guybrush Threepwood again, who inadvertently finds himself thrown into this drama adventure with a villain pirate named Lechuck. And even the sword fighting in the game is just verbal jousting. So you have to have like insults and then replies to the insults.

And if you can get them right, then you disarm your opponent. So this was a type of. I think it takes a lot of creativity to make a game engaging without just straight up fighting.

That it's, it's the comedy, it's the character, it's the story, it's the problem solving that sort of is the engine of the enjoyment. And both of these games pull that off in spades. So if you get a chance to play either of these, I mean, go for it.

Then the second category would be more serious, you know, moody Universe building, RPG Fantasy, the original Fallout. I don't feel like this series needs much introduction.

Although when I talk to people about Fallout, they'll typically mention Fallout 3 when it went to console being the first one that they played. But I grew up, you know, playing the original PC games where it's like bird's eye view, turn based combat style.

But what I love about this series is from the beginning you were thrown into a world that felt real and layered.

And the character development in terms of like how you build your character, how you upgrade your character, probably one of the best sort of skill, you know, character development designs I've ever seen.

And then Final Fantasy 3, I think the original, like in Japan it was, it's actually technically Final Fantasy 6, but this was like the North American release and for Super Nintendo and again story and universe and characters. I to this day like the feeling of attachment that I have to the characters in Final Fantasy 3, it just, it's very deep.

It kind of, I think represented a shift in Final Fantasy gaming where the universe was more kind of second Industrial Revolution Steampunk. So kind of like industrial technologies mixed with magic and medieval aesthetics.

And so I think it really kind of pushed what people expect of Final Fantasy and showed what you could do with story and character development even with pixelated graphics. Like it really just probably my favorite of all time. It was really hard to pick. But these are my top four that give you a sense of how I roll.

Yeah.

Monkey island also rules for, like, some really cool technical reasons. With the sound card.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

All right. And then, tj, you. You curated two. Just two? Yeah. One. Tell us about them.

Yeah. See, the. See, the issue is that the original idea for this series was favorite Final Fantasy games, and it felt rude of me to expand beyond that.

Fair.

Because there are so many. I've played so many. But if you count Star wars as science fantasy, then one of them is definitely Star Wars Nazi Old Republic 2.

Yeah. I was surprised it took you this long to mention that. Yeah.

Also, Elden Ring from Salvador's latest.

I haven't played that, but I have a colleague who has played it, and he has spoken very highly of Elden Ring. And he came to work one day when he told me that he finally beat the end boss and how long it took him to do that, and we both celebrated for him.

Yeah. I was trying earlier with some buddies. It ain't easy, but for this, I do think it's really funny.

If there are a lot of Final Fantasy fans listening to this, I'm really sorry. These are two of the least Final Fantasy games that you could get into until 16 came out.

Because Final Fantasy 4 completely does away with the job system, which is what Final Fantasy kind of had built itself up on and around. And they issued that for characters, real characters that had their own personalities and extremely deep story beats.

I love every party member in Final Fantasy 4. They're so special. Like I said, it was really my first one, but it's like the classic story.

Knight, working for a secretly evil empire redeems himself complete change in his life, and they end up on the moon. Naturally, they end up on the moon because it is still Final Fantasy. And that's where they resolve the. The game story. But the.

I still don't know if I've played a game that can be as emotionally affecting as Final Fantasy 4 to this day, just because of the heroic sacrifices that so many of your party members go through. It's like. It's like six of them.

It's.

It's actually a little bit ridiculous. It becomes a little redundant.

Honestly, by the time you actually have made it to the moon, you're just expecting someone else to do it, you know, just around the corner, like, oh, what's next? Rosa dies so that we can beat the final boss.

Sure.

But he was actually. He was actually instrumental in shaping my taste for future Final Fantasy.

Like, sorry to jump in here. I know this is your moment, but I do want to jump in here because I feel Like I was talking too much about the universe of Final Fantasy 3 and not.

Not the themes, but the theme of sacrifices. Very pronounced in number three as well.

Moving on.

Final Fantasy 13 2. This is the one that I'm really apologizing for. Most Final Fantasy game fans do not like this one or Final Fantasy 13.

So Josh, I'm not sure if you noticed, but you read the list of highest selling games of all time and you read 10 and 10 2. That was the first time they did it.

A lot of people didn't like 102 because they took 10 and made it completely different and gave you a different party with different mechanics. So they got the critical reception from that and they did the same thing again, except they made a third one this time.

They're like Bob Dylan. Yeah, you're like, oh, you don't like this? Well, I'm going to do more. And that. And then, and then that.

Oh yeah. But to me, Final Fantasy 132 was the first game that I played that was like a genuine spectacle. Beginning to end.

The time hopping shenanigans, just something I love. They get Super Sci Fi, they're going to the future, they're going to the past.

You're seeing, you know, a bunch of like really legendary Final Fantasy creatures. And the story that you play through in Final Fantasy 13 once again ties heavily into that theme of sacrifice. Because the FAL Sea and the se.

The FY are having to give their lives to save planets and to contain the magic that is going to destroy them. It's so good. It's so good. There's so much to say.

My first playthrough of Final Fantasy 132 took me like 100 something hours because what with the time travel shenanigans, I got lost a lot. And I think most people would get lost a lot because you can go back to the place you just came from.

But 100 years in the future unlocks different paths, changes things around, changes the enemies that are available. It's. It's a riot to me, the rioting. Sure, it can be a little contrived every once in a while. It's Final Fantasy. That's gonna happen. Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, we are already at time.

But before we wrap up, I did want to actually talk a little bit more about just the genre and what it means that like we experience story in gaming rather than just watching it or reading it. You know, something like that. And there's several different ways we could take this conversation. I'm probably gonna let Mike decide how we do that.

But before lot of pressure, man.

Yeah. First of all, like y' all both mentioned sacrifice is a big thing in some of the Final Fantasy games.

And I think that's a really good, maybe a good starting point for this. Part of the conversation that we're. I want to have is like experiencing sacrifice in a game is just so wildly different than watching or reading it.

And like, I'm not saying it's not impactful. Like when you watch One Piece and you see some of those sacrifices, it is absolutely heart wrenching.

But man, when I'm playing Kingdom Hearts and Sora does that to himself, then I have to walk through Hallow Bastion as a heartless and hope that my friends show pity on me, even though I'm the same enemy that we've been killing the whole game. It does something to you, man.

When you're like actively being the sacrifice, it does something, you know, like Fable, you see it again, you see it in all kinds of ones. In the Trine games you mentioned, it's a three party system with puzzles and platforming.

When one of those characters are gone, the puzzles become impossible. So you really feel that loss a little bit different when one of the party members aren't there.

So it's just, I think gaming really does change how you experience a story. So I think that's a really good place to start. Michael Morelli, where else do you want to take this part of this before we wrap up?

Oh, well, I mean, I think one of the pieces that I see in all the mentions that we made of favorite games and even the ones that we haven't and the genre as a whole is you go from being an observer in the story to a participant. And in that sense, um, you know, there's that classic saying that art imitates life. And in this sense, I think fantasy imitates life.

And the development.

You start in one place and you go along in your journey and you are making decisions that affect you in the present moment, but they are also affecting you for your lifespan and even the decisions you have to make when you develop as a character. Oh, am I going to upgrade in this, this way or I'm going to upgrade in that way?

And I need to get this item and do I sell these items to get that better item and all these sorts of things. It's almost to me like an analogy for discipleship, you know, not to shoehorn theology into everything.

But yeah, I think that's why the genre always appealed to me is I loved fantasy stories growing up. I loved Sci Fi.

And so to have a world where you actually can become a participant in those stories and part of the making of those stories through the decision you make. I mean, sign me up. So, yeah, when those things happen, you're not.

You're not experiencing them just as an observer, but you are now a participant in the story. So when you lose somebody or you experience that frustration like you're in it, you've developed attachment, especially the way that.

Final Fantasy is able to do it, because they're.

When they're forcing your party members to sacrifice themselves, it's kind of like watching a part of you die and being helpless about it because you're trapped in this closing room. Classic walls are closing in on you. And there go my twin brother and sister magicians that have been with me for the past 15 hours.

And they turn themselves to stone to stop the walls and let the rest of you escape.

The other thing, too is the mixture of, like, tragedy and comedy, which is, I think, is an honest account of life. I think all the games that we chose, like, there's a real tragic adventure, you know, strain to them.

But also, I think all the games you mentioned, too, they don't take themselves too seriously. So it's this amazing blend and even melodrama, like, just. Just. Oh, yeah, like you said, like, it's a bit contrived at points.

You know, it's a bit weird at points. It's a bit comical at points. But isn't that life?

Like, even amidst the sacrifice, there's a little bit of goofiness and awkwardness and coming to terms with that, you know, So I think there's also that piece as well.

There. There is. There's an NPC in 13.

Two named hopefully from the Future, you know, like a thousand years in the story's main timeline's future, who fights with a boomerang? And they talk about it, but I.

Bet you sweet boomerang.

It was sweet. And they have, like, swords and magic, and one of them is like, you're from the future and you fight with boomerang. Yep.

Yeah.

I mean, there's one character in Final Fantasy 3 named MOG, and you get him later in the game, but his whole specialty is dance moves, so he does little dances and then. But it'll, like, rain down, like, elemental magic on people.

So depending on what geographical region you're in, you'll learn the dance of that region if you're there long enough. But he's just like this little.

This little white little creature who looks so friendly he does these cool little dances, and if he gets the dance right, it does the attack, but if he stumbles, it's like, oh, no, Mog fell again. You know, it's just like. Yeah, it's a little bit campy, I guess, is the word.

Yeah. One of my favorite things.

I'm not getting too much in the jargon and all the stuff, because then I'll have to explain things and that'll become too much. But one of the.

Some of the Kingdom Hearts games, there's these cute little, like, almost Pokemon car creatures and stuff you can collect and, like, do stuff with you. That's so cute.

And at the end of one of the mobile games of hours and hours and hours of play, he's like, oh, by the way, all of those are the souls of children. And I'm like, all right, Kingdom Hearts. All right, dude. Maybe chill. But, yeah, so that was a whole thing.

But, yeah, I love that you mentioned, like, discipleship with it, too, though, because, like, even just me playing Final Fantasy 7 right now, and I'm, like, looking at my own actions and just seeing how. How much I've changed. And I think.

I don't think it was ever unhealthy how I was playing games, but, like, when it was like, Fable 2, my first time playing, I wanted all the bad stuff, like, because I'm not that person who's just going to go rob people and, like, shoot random things and whatever, but I'm like, I need, like, it allowed me to vent, but now I'm like, Final Fantasy vii. I don't even have the desire. You know what I mean? Like. Like, here I am playing as a.

As a merc, and I'm walking through, and this little girl's like, will you help me find my cats? And I'm like, heck, yeah, I'm gonna help you find your cats.

It does something to me that I'm like, I actually wanted to help this girl find the cats, even though I probably could go be fighting bad guys or do something a lot cooler than this right now. And I don't know, like, it gave me a moment of reflection on myself, so I kind. I like that. So I think discipleship's exactly right.

Like, that's a lot of what's happening in some of these games. And I also just.

Side note, I think it's interesting that a lot of the games we picked kind of contrast magic and, like, steampunk technology in the same game. Like, I thought it was kind of interesting that we all kind of went that route.

Because, like, there's a lot of Fable games, but Fable 2 is the one where it's like, which one are you do? And I think part of us wants to experience a world that's more magical than the one we live in.

So having it where we're choosing the magic instead of there's only magic, I think probably allows us to experience it.

Even deeper and shout out Fable 2. There's not a lot of games that will let you buy every single building in the country and exorbitantly raise the rent to get rich.

God, it's great. The new Fable game that's coming out this year, they created a new technology where every single NPC has its own life.

Like, they're not just to going. Going to be standing in one spot.

Like, they'll go to their house, they'll be with their kids, they'll go work their job, they'll go to that spot you found them in the first time.

And it's like, man, at any point I could just completely interrupt people's lives and hire them and buy their homes and charge them, and I can't wait for that new Fable game. But that does get a little off the rails.

One thing we want to say asking all these before we wrap up though, we want to ask in all of the Gamer Garage episodes, would this work as a book, movie, TV show, or does this only work as a game? And we talked about a lot of games, so it's kind of hard to do this question. Kingdom Hearts. I've heard rumors they're gonna make an animated movie.

Please don't. That will be awful. Fable. The whole thing is that you can choose your route. It doesn't work as a story. Please stop.

I think the only one in mind because, like trying it's like cute little fairy tale story. Like it's a relaxing like same. Like if you just read an old fairy tale. Like, I don't need that to be anything other than what it is.

Folklore, I think could be a good movie. If, like Tim Burton or Mike Flanagan did that story. I think it'd be cool. But like, overall, I think they work as games. I think I'm happy as they're.

You know, Michael mentioned the Fallout show is one of the big exceptions. The Pokemon show, actually, I'll say Pokemon anime is actually great.

I would say. Yeah. I mean, Fallout has turned out to be really good. I actually would love to see Space Quest done by somebody like James Gunn.

I mean, if I think about it, Guardians of the Galaxy definitely has that kind of vibe. Where it's sci fi, but it also doesn't take itself too seriously.

So there's kind of a goofy punk rock, rock and roll edge brought to the sci fi genre. I don't know how Monkey island would do.

Reading up a bit on it in preparation for today did say actually that the game was inspired by the Pirates of the Caribbean ride in Disneyland and some other stuff.

Yeah.

So I think, I think, I think it could.

I mean, honestly though, it'd be one of those things where even if they turned Monkey island into a movie and the movie was trash, so many people would go see it and have such a blast because I feel like it's such a cult classic.

It'd be so Monkey island if was.

It was bad. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's. There's actually no way you could mess it up. Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy 3. Oh, I don't know. I mean, I just.

I want to say no because I. It's one of those ones you're like, no matter what you do, I don't know that it'll ever just reach.

It would kind of, you know, even if they did did their best possible job, I feel like it would be the equivalent of. Of Watchmen. Yeah, you know, like the, the graphic novel Watchmen and then Zack Snyder.

People were like, you can never turn this into a movie and Zack Snyder did. And you're like, yeah, no, he represented the graphic novel. But the payoff of that, I don't know if it would really work.

Yeah, that's part of my thing with Kingdom Hearts 2 is like, even if they did it perfectly, they got all the original Disney movie actors and everything.

I think part of the problem is it's impactful because it's a game about identity and there's something about playing that that I just don't think translates in any other medium. And I like the manga even, but I'm like, it just doesn't quite translate.

Yeah, I definitely feel like Final Fantasy 4 could maybe be like a good limited run series. You know, probably not live action. Probably not live action on the moon. Like a high budget Amazon video production. That could be.

That could be pretty Good. Final Fantasy 13 2. Absolutely not.

I think it all depends on, you know, this is one of the things that I've observed with the Amazon stuff is they've gone like high budget, say on the Lord of the Rings and whatever.

But it does make you realize that actually fantasy is probably one of the hardest genres to act because if you're not a good actor, you're Just a human in an elf costume. Yeah, well you can see that in some. In the Amazon. Lord of the Ring.

Seriously.

I love Rings of Power, but I like it. But there's some stuff, the choices they made that. Anyway, that's another conversation we'll get Nick on. We'll have that episode. Yeah.

I will say to your point with Fantasy 2 though, is like magic is a necessary component and that's not something like you can interview people and be like, hello, do you have any magic in you? But like, dude, Ian McKellen showing up like full Gandalf. And you're like, yeah, that's magic. That is what magic looks like.

And like, even I hate to be that guy, but I'll go to Disney World. I love Disney World. I go and like, I'm not even name dropping, but like, you'll go with some crew people who work there.

And you're like, these are people who really believe in Disney. And they were like exuberating like magic at you. And you're like, oh, this is a magical place.

And then sometimes you'll go and you'll have some guy that's there for an internship who hates his life being there and you're like, he doesn't get it. Like, it's like, I don't know, like, I hate to be that guy, but I like part of me low key.

Maybe it's because I grew up in a casa, but like, I'm like, I think magic might be a real thing that some people just have and others don't.

You gotta feel it.

Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. Whichever is easier in books and games than movies. Oh, definitely. Yeah, that's true, that's true. You got me there.

All right, so guys, let's, let's go ahead and wrap this up. We're already over, but we're not gonna get too over because I believe in us for this. We're gonna be doing a special double bonus episode.

We're gonna do a lightning round of other fantasy games we could have picked and we're gonna talk about our favorite fantasy games that are already part of another ip. So like Lord of the Rings games, Harry Potter games, games, Star wars games, that kind of stuff.

Give you guys a minute to think about it. I mentioned it earlier.

I'm going to recommend if you can find a copy of Rascal for PlayStation 1 and play it, I'm going to put it this way, IMDb gives it a 3.3 out of 10. I am known for bad opinions, but I love this game. Just as a little kid running around a dungeon with a bubble gun, it's awesome. I loved it.

It was the first game I think I remember as a child going, I love this. So I'm recommending that. Tj, if you had to recommend a retro game for people, go try it. What are you giving them?

Any retro game, doesn't have to be fantasy.

Okay, cool. Star Wars Nazi Republic 2.

Perfect. All right, Michael Morelli.

I did mention it earlier and just because none of us actually mention in our, in our favorites, I'm gonna say Zelda link to the past. I've been replaying that with my eldest and oh, it's so good. So good.

The magical items alone are worth playing like Hookshot, the hammer, the Pegasus shoes. Let's go.

Sure. Yeah, Absolutely, dude. All right with that guys, find your way to get some retro games. Just get some gaming in you and then rate and review our show.

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