Kevin, Christian, and TJ dive headfirst into the vibrant world of DC Comics icons, kicking off the year with a bang in the first episode of the Icons series on Systematic Geekology. They explore the epic legacies and characteristics of legendary figures like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, and Green Lantern, scrutinizing what makes these characters tick and what traits they’d love to channel in their own lives this year. The trio engages in witty banter, sharing personal anecdotes that reveal how these heroes have influenced their own journeys and aspirations. With a relaxed vibe and clever commentary, the guys not only celebrate the rich history of these iconic characters but also ponder their relatable humanity, reminding listeners that even the mightiest heroes have their struggles and flaws. So, whether they’re geeking out about classic comic arcs or the latest animated adaptations, this episode is a must-listen for anyone who’s ever felt the pull of the superhero universe.

Takeaways:

1. This episode kicks off the 2024 Icons series, diving deep into DC Comics' legendary characters.
2. Kevin, Christian, and TJ share their personal connections to iconic DC characters, revealing what traits they aspire to embody.
3. They discuss the cultural impact and legacy of characters like Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, emphasizing their relevance today.
4. The hosts explore the nuances of each character's backstory, showcasing how their journeys speak to broader themes of heroism and identity.
5. Expect some witty banter as the trio debates their favorite iterations of the Flash and Green Lantern, highlighting the fun in fandom.
6. The episode underscores the importance of character relationships in comics, particularly within the DC Universe, showcasing how they enrich the narrative.

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Check out our other DC content:

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Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

This is thematic geekology. We are the priest of the geeks and it's the holiday season. We are here recording.

I am one of your geekologist, Kevin Schaefer here with two of my favorite to talk in a special episode on TC Icon. It'll be a really fun one. I am here with Christian Ashley, TJ Blackwell. Guys, how are you today?

Feeling pretty good, man.

Tj, I also have to say like, I know this is an audio episode, but I love this new light you got for yourself for Christmas. Thank you. To be shown off on YouTube because it's quite nice.

It's quite neat.

Yeah, it really is. Yeah, I like it.

Christmas is wonderful.

Maybe it's like your Green Lantern light. You do the like Green Lantern motto when you turn it on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not officially. Not as far as you normal people are concerned.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Right. I. I would still. I would support that if you did though. But no.

Well guys, before we get into main topic and everything else, what have you guys been geeking out on? Fallout.

I finally, finally watched the Fallout show. It's so. It's good. I don't know why I didn't initially like for season one, but I watched season one. Now I'm like keeping up with season two.

It's so good. I'm a big fan choice.

I haven't started season two yet, but I did enjoy season one. We actually did an episode on that a while ago and I was one of the ones who had never played the game.

I went and fresh the show but I did really enjoy it.

At the time I hadn't seen the show.

Yeah, I. You know, his money's tight right now and I already had the service going.

PlayStation Network, they added the new game to me which is Wo long Pollen Dynasty made by the same people who did like Neo and Neo 2. And you know what? It's super hard, but it's also super fun. I've been enjoying it so far.

Neo 3 is coming out.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah. Pretty sick.

Right on. That's. We'll see if it gets an Amazon show one day. I don't know.

A Neo Amazon show would be awesome.

I'm fine with that.

Yeah. Right on. And then on my end, of course I did stranger things on Christmas night.

Got a lot of thoughts on this volume episodes but I already have my ticket to the finale at the Alamo Drafthouse on New Year's Day. So I'll. However the finale turns out, I'll be. I'll already be seeing it twice.

Because I'll be watching it at home on New Year's Eve and then seeing it in theater on New Year's Day. But yeah, there were, there were highs and lows from this last batch. I'm really curious how they're going to wrap it all up.

But nonetheless, it was pretty nice to get three new episodes as a Christmas present. I really enjoyed that.

And then me, Christian, Evan and Andy will be doing a Best Movies of the Year episode on New Year's Eve and I've got some pics of that, so.

Well, I don't want to spoil anything that I did see a movie the other day that will make that the top 10 list and I'll be talking about all that and all my favorite. It was a big year for movies, so I've got a lot to say on that episode. But I have my list ready to go and I'm excited for that one.

Also, one more thing is Pluribus, I finished and it was phenomenal. That was probably my favorite show of the year. So we got to do an episode on that as well.

But yeah, a lot, a lot of stuff out there right now, especially around this time of year. So. Well, guys, before getting our main topic, first of all, listeners out there, thank you so much for joining.

If this is your first time, hey, check out the rest of our archives here. You can check us out on YouTube, you can listen to us wherever you get your podcast.

And if you want to support the show, check out the the link in the description. You can find out how to become a member and any support there really helps. I also want to give a shout out to one of our Patreon subscribers.

His name is Frank and I shrug Flower. I may be butchering that and I apologize if I am. So I'll just say Frank T. But Frank, thank you so much for your support out there.

We really appreciate it. And yeah, again, if you want to like, find out ways to support the show, check out the show notes. You can also just like rate subscribe.

It really helps. And so, so yeah, welcome again. And today we're going to be talking about EC Comics icons.

And so specifically we're going to be looking at five characters. Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman.

And we're going to be kind of going through a little bit of the history of each of these characters. And I know for a couple of these there are multiple people who embody the Flash Persona, the green liner Persona.

So we'll be d a little bit of that and talking about our histories with the characters and, you know, kind of looking at why they have such a long listing, long lasting cultural impact and, you know, and pick. Narrowing it down to five icons a little tricky. So apologies if you're a big Aquaman fan or a big hot girl. You know, we. There's.

There's plenty to discuss with a Marshal Man Hunter. There's plenty to discuss with those characters as well. But we did want to focus it on just kind of the five big Justice Leaguers for today.

And, you know, can always come back to this at another time. But. But yeah, I'm really excited about this.

I. Chris and dj, I know we're all big comic book fans here, but I guess before we get into going through the list of these. Are there any. Is there a particular DC character that really resonates with you that you have a long background with or even.

Or a DC property that really. You gravitate towards tj, I'll start with you because Christian and I have talked D.C. plenty of times. So I kind of know if I.

Say Lobo or is someone gonna, like, arrest me?

No. Great.

Oh, you probably should. Someone finds Lobo extremely relatable. I have some people you need to talk to.

I mean, talk to about why he resonates with you.

No, he doesn't. I just wanted to throw that out there.

Yeah. He can do what TJ can't and get away with it.

Yeah. Which is shocking. But for me, it's always been Green Lantern and the Flash. So we're right there. You know, I'm real simple.

I didn't actually read a lot of comic books as a child. So what I would. Because, you know, I was, like, out in the country.

I was never at a place where I could buy comic books, but we had an antenna on our tv. And sometimes I would see the Flash or Green Lantern in some old comic Justice League cartoon or the Green Lantern show was great.

Loved it.

I've always loved Green Lantern because having the strong will to do the right thing has always been super important to me. That's why Naruto is really good for the first 151 chapters and not after that. And the Flash, I've just always been a fast guy. That was the Flash.

And that's awesome. Running really fast. Super cool.

Christian, I do wish this episode were a YouTube one because I love your facial reactions here, these comments.

That's why I love working with tj. He makes me react in ways I normally wouldn't.

And it's. I mean, I love the specificity of you Know, I run really fast and then. And then, you know, we had an antenna.

So I was able to see some of the TVA friends. But I'm glad you brought that because. Yeah. Oh, the Green Lantern animated series.

You know, the Justice League Animated series, which Christian and I have talked about many times. And all of the DC Animated Universe. So great picks there. And I love how you said that those are characters that you really resonated with.

Yeah, because, like, I can't relate to Superman. Yeah, I'm just. I'm just a little guy there.

Hey, you never know. Maybe you'll find out one day that you actually did arrive here on a ship from a dying planet. I better not change everything.

That's why there's an age gap.

Yeah. If I find out I'm Kryptonian and normal, I'm going to be furious.

But maybe your powers will bloom late. That happened with Superman sons. I mean, you never know. Yeah.

Fingers crossed.

Yeah, could happen.

Then I'll get my.

Yeah, still waiting on that. You know. Yeah. Yeah. One day.

Yeah. For me, I mean, the obvious answer is obvious. It's Batman. He's how I got introduced to D.C. with the animated Series.

You know, I've always, you know, there's always those people out there. How can I ever identify with a billionaire?

Well, I can identify with someone who's lost something and has been driven to do something about that and make sure no one ever has to suffer the same way that he did and saw what his parents did. Like, there's always the. A huge criticism of Batman. Why doesn't he just, you know, use his money on the city as Bruce Wayne? Well, guess what?

His parents did that and they got murdered for it. So he's learned, you know, I can also punch people in the face.

Yeah, sure, most of them are going to be in lower economic side of things, but I can also do and build charities because I took care of the people who would have murdered me if I did those things. I really appreciate something like that. But actually, my real answer, and someone I would have fought for a little more normally would be Nightwing.

Dick Grayson is to me what Ben Grimm is to the Marvel Universe. The one guy that everyone gets along with.

You know, like, everyone loves Captain America, but there are some people who put him on too high a pedestal. Everyone loves Spider man, but sometimes he's a little too weird and crazy for him. Everyone loves Superman, but one same thing.

Too high on a pedestal. He's not even human. Batman.

Everyone puts him on a pedestal and he's creepy and all this stuff, but Nightwing has a mask, but it reveals more of himself to people. And he goes places, you know, like, setting up your operations in Bludhaven is like, asking, like, you think Gotham is bad at times.

Like, sometimes it feels like Bludhaven is even worse. And yet he's doing it for the sake of loving other people, which he learned under Bruce.

So the two of them kind of together are kind of like my answer for this.

The great choice. I mean, that. And, you know, I was thinking about this too. Very similar.

You know, the obvious answer for me is Batman, my favorite fictional character of all time. I was also introduced through the Animated Series, then got into comics. And, you know, I always love that character.

And I, I really like your answer too, of, you know, it's not that, oh, I'm a billionaire and I know I'll ever know what that experience is like, but it's the attitude that he takes in the why he chooses to fight for against injustice and why he wants to use his resources to try to make the world around him a better place. Even though he's often criticized as, oh, he's just an angsty dude who never let go of childhood trauma.

I'm like, no, he wants to fight so that others don't have to experience same thing he went through. I always resonated with that. And then, you know, the classic question of, like, oh, how can you relate to Superman?

Superman I actually always found even more relatable because there was the idea of him, you know, there's an outsider element there, being a disabled person who grew up with this kind of wrestling with, like, you know, do I want to identify as disabled? Do I want to, you know, connect with that community more? Which now I very much am. And I do it for a living.

But, you know, that was something I wrestled with a lot growing up. And I. You could.

Even though it's not the exact same scenario, the feelings that Superman goes through and the emotional impact of the character, I think is very universal.

Whether you're, you know, come from a background of, you know, let's say, like, Clark Kent, a farm boy, or you could be in a completely different upbringing. But I think we've all felt ways that Superman has felt at some point in his life. And so that's what always resonated with me.

Similar with characters like Raven and the Teen Titans. I always, you know, really liked those for that.

The way it captured just coming of age narratives and the adolescent experience and, you know, being kind of a quirky A little bit of an outsider and finding communion. Communion community with other like minded individuals. And Raven was always my favorite. So there's a lot here. But, but yes, definitely.

Batman and Superman are probably the most relatable for me in their own ways. I mean again, I, I wish I had the kind of cool superpowers but. And billionaire resources but.

But hey, it's the, it's the characterization that is more powerful and what's made them have such a long lasting cultural impact. So, so yeah, so great answers there. So yeah, let's get in then.

To each of these characters, like I said, I've done a little bit of background with their first appearances. There's three.

So we'll go through that and then we'll talk a little bit about our experiences with each of these characters and maybe shout out some recommendations as well. So let's start with the Flash.

And I think one of the coolest things about the Flash and the character's history is it really introduced the concept of the multiverse. I'm a DC in the Flash of Two Worlds comic book, which is an all time classic. That really, you know, multiverse in today's culture.

I feel like it's, it's overdone and it's, you know, we're all like, we're all kind of tired of like the Multiverse saga in the MCU right now and in DC and Marvel. But when it first started, it was revolutionary.

Where you had Barry Allen and Jake Eric from two universes and meeting together, that was a revolutionary concept. And you know, it didn't. That was where it all began. So that was a really cool thing. And then I grew up before Barry Allen.

I grew up on Wally west on the Justice League animated series. So that character will always have a big impact on me. And then there was Bart Allen of course. So lot to do with, with Flash and with Flash's history.

DJ you brought this up as you know, Flash is one of your favorites. So what's kind of your background with the character and you have a favorite like alter ego.

Yeah, it's Barry Allen, fastest man alive. I've just always loved the Flash. I don't really like the color red, so, like, it's hard for me to love the Flash, but like I said, he's super fast.

Barry Allen was my, like, starting point for the Flash. It's just, you know, I didn't even. Every time I saw Wally until I found out about, you know, Wally being different. I just assumed it was Barry Allen.

They were all Barry Allen to me, except Jake. Eric, because of his stupid little helmet, which. It's not stupid. It's fine.

That helmet is iconic, I was gonna say.

Yeah, it's fun. It's. It's cool. It's like Hermes. I get it, but he's just so cool, man. He's compassionate, he's smart, he is faster than Superman. Argue with a wall.

And the Flash. I feel kind of the same way about the Flash as DC itself. Also, quick aside, I do not like the CW Flash. That show is terrible.

Okay? The first two seasons are some of the best superhero storytelling.

So I. I will agree it went off the rails after a while, but I love those earlier seasons.

They're. They're all right, man. I just. Man, they cannot act. And the. I just don't like the cameras that CW has access to.

I think makes everything look like a soap opera. I can't get past it.

I mean, I think that was very intentional. I did. We can go out of the whole set. But. But no, I mean, I'm glad you brought it up, because the.

The Flash TV show, I mean, and the whole Arrowverse I was watching, really, throughout college and a lot after. I didn't finish all the shows. But. But that was, you know, a big part of my, like, early 20s. And, I mean, they. They very much are superheroes.

So proper. I will not refute that at all. But I think that was the charm of them. They were intentionally, you know, in that wheelhouse. But I.

Again, I. Yeah, comics have always been soap operas. The CW was just. The shows were just way more obvious about it.

Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Not a fan, but I feel like DC have used the Flash the same way I do, which is, like, the starting point. Like, oh, we need to reset something. Let's do Flashpoint again. Flash is going to reset the universe, baby. Let's go.

Let's do it. Which I love.

I think it's awesome. And it's just, like, it breaks my heart to watch any of them sacrifice their lives again to save the world, because they just.

I just feel like the Flash does it all the time. Because I know Barry Allen's done it, Wally west has done it. Has Bart Allen sacrificed his life to reset the universe yet?

A good question. If he hasn't time, I kind of think if he's sacrificed, like, he's been, like, he'll be one where he's away for a while, then they bring him back.

Like, they did that in the Joshua Williamson run, which is one I recommend a lot. But they brought him back in, like issue 50, I think, after that. But I. That's a good question.

Off the top of my head, I don't know any stories where he sacrifices. But, I mean, it's. It wouldn't surprise me if he has.

Yeah. But I just love the Flash. Super cool. And I do appreciate Jake Eric, really. I think it's super fun to have, like, the old man Flash.

And I think it's super funny to have a speedster with, like the Superman build. You know, every time you see Jay Garrick is just this huge Dorito shaped dude, I think it's a good visual gag. To me.

Doritoshape dude is like, I think the best tagline I've ever heard for Jay Garrick.

Yeah, it's just really funny to me. Like, he's so wide. He's way scarier than the rest of them. He's slower. He's the slowest Flash. But I'd be way more afraid if he was running at me.

DC really needs to hire TJ for marketing and advertising there, because if you could put that tagline on a Jay Garrett comic or maybe an eventual movie, I think that would do wonders.

Yeah, they'll release a Jay Garrick live action called the Dorito Shaped Man.

I would go see that in a heartbeat.

Yeah, that's what we're building up towards.

Hey, James. Gun. There you go. Make it happen.

Yeah. The Flash is super, super impressive, super important to me. And I think Ezra Miller did an okay job. I just wish he wasn't such a freak about it.

And in general, fair, I think it was probably the best actor the Flash ever had, which really is unfortunate.

I don't know. I. Grant Gustin is my boy. I've got. I've got a picture with him on my desk here. So I met him at GalaxyCon this year. That was really cool. But.

But, yeah, yeah. But, Christian, what about you? What are some of your favorite Flash stories or just kind of your background with the character?

I started off with Wally west, you know, being in the dcau, then him being the Flash for that one. But really, my guy is Barry out of, you know, everyone assembled here. No, I love Derek for who he is.

I didn't know that Impulse had ever become the Flash, I guess because that was in a period of D.C. i haven't read.

But, yeah, I've always appreciated Barry as that person who comes from a police background, you know, forensics and all this, and also uses that as an opportunity to look after other people. I love the rivalry that he has, you know, with the Rogues and how they've all worked together there.

And as someone who was traumatized reading, you know, Crisis on Infinite Earths way back in the day, like, it made perfect sense how he ends up going out of the picture, you know, to save all of reality from the Anti Monitor, absorbing himself into the Speed Force as a way to sacrifice himself. Great play.

And then I do appreciate that Wally west steps up to the plate because, you know, we've had sidekicks, you know, do that before in the past. But, like, he became the guy for quite a while.

And going back to, like, what you said earlier about the coming of the multiverse in the stories when you had the Flash of two worlds. That's something as a continuity nut I love.

Because you, when you're watching, when reading these comics, you have the question, wait, there's this Flash, but there's also that Flash. Because I grew up on this one, you know. You know, 30s, 40s, with. During that time, say, well, what do you do with that?

Well, you create the multiverse. You build the Earth one, Earth Two, that is later built up by other people in a way to show that these things still happen.

The things that you love still happen. They're just in this reality instead. But these things happen here in this reality over here.

And I love it when writers are able to finagled their way. Obviously, it's a retcon, but it's a fun one. One that says, hey, everything mattered that Jake Eric did. Everything mattered that Barry did.

Yeah, I. Sometimes I think a retcon's not really a retcon.

You know, valid point. It's. It's. It's hard to define a retcon in comics, especially because they're like, they're.

I mean, they use the term Soft reboot or you know, there's big multiverse shifting events. But.

But yeah, I mean when they keep these characters and storylines going for decades and decades, you know, it's hard to keep everything consistent in that regard. But yeah, and then me, yeah, I mean I love Flash. I, I still, I also was introduced Wally west through the dcau. Love that character.

But I think I do like Barry the best. Wally I think is my favorite, one of my favorites on know, Young justice and NT Titan, stuff like that.

But, but you know, when he's parent what I like in, with putting him in the dcau, it worked really well because having him as the more goofy light hearted one, as the antithesis to John Stewart's Green Lantern worked really well. But then it's kind of the opposite when you have Barry and Hal together. Um, Hal is a little more goofy in that regard.

So I, you have to have one of them be more of the straight man. And yeah, Barry, I always like, I always like his story. I think he's know, a relatable character.

He obviously goes through this massive tragedy with his mother's death as a child. Um, but then, you know, he wants to um, seek justice, becomes a forensic scientist and yeah, I really like a lot of storylines with him.

I mentioned the Joshua Williamson run from Rebirth. That is an excellent comics run. Also. Mark Wade, Jeff, John Y. Absolutely, absolutely.

The Flashpoint Paradox animated movie is the best Flash movie we've gotten so far. That one is fantastic. And you know, I, there's.

I'm hopeful that we can see him, you know, sooner than later in the new dcu, but we will see how that all plays out. But yeah, I mean, great character.

And one of my favorite episodes of Young Justice I mentioned before on another episode is the Bloodlines episode from season two where you get to see all the Flashes together. The J, Barry, Wally and Bart all in one episode together. It's a ton of fun.

I love the legacy history of, of the Flash comics and, and you know, and, and they really have this family bond that unites them and unites them across different universes and across the Speed Force. And it's just. There's a lot of fun stories that come out of characters.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's just. Yeah.

As cool as the Flash is and always will be, I think where he really shines, at least Barry and Wally are their relationships.

Like they established such strong relationships with not only, you know, the rest of the Justice League and the rest of the heroes in their universe, but with their, their rogues and they Approach every problem with so much compassion that the only logical conclusion is, oh, I have to merge with the Speed Force to save the universe. Of course I'm doing that. No question.

Yeah. Such a good character.

100.

Well and DJ I know you're like, while you're not a fan of the CW Flash show, I think that is one of the things that did really well was the interactions with the rogues gallery. I mean Flash does have a great rogue gallery. I mean I'd say like next to Batman he has some of the best.

You know, you got Captain Cold and Zoom, like and Weather wizard, like all these kind of like really goofy ones on paper that you have a lot of really interesting dynamics with and Captain Boomerang and you know, and I like and like you said, they he's always trying to not just put bad guys behind bars. He's really trying to figure out permanent solutions and you know, and, and work toward a better society.

This really a hero that you can aspire to and be a good role model. I really like that.

But, but absolutely the relationship, I mean the, the, the family dynamic between Barry and Wally and you know, and, and also Jay as a father figure too. All of these make the character have such a long lasting impact.

And, and yeah, I think that's why he's, why, why various Flash stories have endured all these years later, decades later. So excellent.

Well, that is Flash moving on next to Green Lantern, which is another one where multiple people have held the Green Lantern ring become, you know, bestowed upon them by the guardians of Oa.

But I don't know a ton about the character, so I can't speak as much about him as I can Kyle Jordan and John Stewart.

But you know, if you know anything about the Green Lantern mythology, the Green Ring that they are bestowed with gives them magic powers to become universal guardians. The, the power of the Green Lantern corpse stems from the Guardians of Oa, which are these extraterrestrial beings.

And you know, if you, if you want to boil down to who the Green Lanterns are, they're essentially space cops. But also what I found really fascinating, doing a little bit of research about Alan Scott, I did not know this.

Some of the, my favorite DC Villains originated with this era. So Vandal Salvage and Solomon Grundy were antagonists of Alan Scott. I did not know that. I thought.

And honestly, I thought, you know, villains like that came later. So that was really interesting. But Alan Scott, I think. I think what's most recognizable about him and is his costume.

He has the big cape and the blonde hair, and he almost sort of looks like a Robin Hood sci fi figure. It looks like kind of an early Green Arrow. They. It's sort of.

It's almost like they took the concepts of Alan Scott and then separated them into Green Lantern, Green Arrow, respectively. But, Christian, do you have anything to say about Alan Scott? I have a little more on Hal and John and all of them.

I mean, one of the few Green Laners who can be beaten up by a baseball bat. You know, the weakness to wood, I mean, to be fair, if you get any of them in the back with a baseball bat, maybe that would affect something. But.

And I know it's. It's a useful weakness to use that much later on we get the yellow with the other Green Lanterns.

But it still does tickled me that the early, you know, 40s idea of, okay, what kind of weakness should we give our character? Oh, the ring can't affect wood.

It's pretty. I mean, I like, I. I know Green Lantern along with Hawkman and. Or no more Aquaman.

And I feel there's like, I've been the butt of a lot of jokes, but like, you know, like, oh, wow, you have your dorky little ring over there. What can that do? But I, I think they evolved the Green Lantern and the Green Lantern powers a lot as. As the legacy continued.

But yeah, Hal Jordan is where you get to really the Green Lantern mythos that we really know the big epic sci fi, like I said, intergalactic space cops. You know, he is this American pilot who. Ship crashes and he discovers an alien who is dying. And he says, you were to be the next Green Lantern.

And he hands him his ring and Aben Sora tells him, you know, okay, you're gonna be the now the protector of Earth then. And how Jordan goes on this big journey and learns who the guardians of O are and the Green Lantern corpse.

And that was sort of the real beginning of the Green Lantern corpses. We know it. And. And then again, Jon Stewart is my favorite. That was also the one I grew up on on the dcau. A military veteran as well.

What I really liked about John Stewart's Green Lantern was he didn't wear a mask. He wasn't afraid to say who he was. He would, you know, And I'll always associate Bill Lamar's voice talents with the character.

Every time I read the character in a comic, I'm always gonna hear it in Phil Lamar's voice, just like I do Kevin Conroy with Batman. So he just made that character so iconic. And yeah, I mean, there's a. There's.

And then later on, too, there was Kyle Rayner, Guy Gardner, and then two of my favorites, Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz.

I really liked their run in the Rebirth era, written by Sam Humphreys, because they were sort of the rookie Green Lanterns assigned to protect Earth while the veterans, like how and John were off doing intergalactic stuff. So there's a lot of history with the Green Lantern corpse. There's certainly more than I'll ever be able to read. But. But I do have my favorites. But.

But tj, this is another one you mentioned, as we're a big fan of. So what's kind of. I know you mentioned the Animated Series, and, you know, what are.

Who's like, your favorite Green Lantern and what about the character really resonates with you?

Uh, so my favorite Green Lantern is not one of the Earth ones. Like, yeah, the.

Like, my real favorite Green Lantern is probably Kyle Rayner, but when people ask, I usually say Liesel Pon just because it's so funny. I love Green Green Lantern. And like, Geoff Johns is really, really willing to take the risk and is like, is this too stupid? No. No, it's not.

Lies upon, if you're not aware, is a super intelligent smallpox virus Green Lantern. That's awesome. That's super cool. Another one of my favorites that isn't, like, very well known is Saranic Natu.

Just the way she's able to overcome her past with Sinestro. And it's so good.

So good.

I don't really think there's a bad Green Lantern. I know Guy Gardner gets a lot of hate because of the way that he is, but he's funny.

Yes.

And sometimes you just have to live with that. But I've always loved the concept, the ability of the Green Lantern.

Just do whatever you can imagine, and they use that in Green Lantern to show how different each lantern is. Because you have Jon Stewart. Military guns, ships, planes. Yeah, yeah. Just like a Hal who's able to branch out a little bit more.

But it's kind of that same vein. You get Kyle Rayner's ring. He can do whatever. An artist, he can do anything. Like, literally anything. Beautiful creations. It's just so.

It's so good.

Makes me kind of emotional just thinking about the differences in each of the Green Lanterns. Of course, Kilowog the goat.

I have a Kilowog figure on my shelf up here. I love Kilowog.

Kilowog's so awesome. And even the live action Green Lantern movie, it's not that bad.

There's certainly worse out there.

There are worse out there. It has its parents. Yeah.

Parallax is a big cloud. Who cares? Most people don't know what Parallax is anyway.

There's a worst movie with a cloud in it.

I will take Parallax as a cloud over Galactus the Cloud any day.

Any day. It's so special to me, specifically what, really. The first comic book that I was ever like, oh, I need to own that was Blackest Night. Geoff Johns.

I love that event. I know a lot of people don't. I think it's awesome not only getting to see each of Earth's Lanterns, you know, fight and lose, except one. My goat.

But the story of Blackest Night and Brightest Day is just so special to me because being able to see my favorite part of the Green Lantern universe, which is the universe. How wacky and crazy. Just specifically the lantern cores get. I love that.

I love it.

It's so cool. Like, I feel like all of the cool aliens that we get in DC come from Green Lantern just because they explore it the most. I love sci fi.

Green Lanterns always go in sci fi. Really special to me also lies upon super intelligent smallpox virus. Green Lantern. That's awesome.

There's also a planet Green Lantern whose name I can't go poco. So cool. So good. And Blackest Night is also the coolest DC event because you get to see pretty much every DC character as a Black Lantern.

I love the deep cuts here, but no, Blackest Night is a great comic. I. I also never really understood the kind of, like, criticism toward it or, like, you know, some of the ones who thought it was overrated.

I. Yeah, I think it's a great event. They're. They're. Yeah.

I think Jeff Johns really did as far, looking at his early DC work and kind of the, you know, the height of his years there, I think, like, Green Lantern Titans are the ones he did the best job with, my opinion. And then there were events like, you know, 52, which he was involved in with a host of other writers and artists. But.

But the Green Lantern stories he did where it was fascinating too, because when New 52 launched, like, that was the only one that was a continuation of his run from previous. Like, they had reset everything else, but then they.

It was toward the end of his Green Lantern run and Those first, like 20 something issues were just a direct continuation this. Right. So they didn't, you know, reboot House Origin again because it wasn't needed to, you know.

Right.

And as alien as it gets with Jeff Johnson and Green Lantern, it's still remarkably human. Always.

Great point. Absolutely.

No, and I think I, I'm really excited for the Lantern series next year and how that will be because it taps into all of that, I think the, the sci fi elements and, you know, they described it as like true detective in space and. And absolutely. It's. It's what really drives years of Green Lantern stories is the human element.

And that's why, you know, like I said, I love characters like John and Hal and Kyle, especially Guy Gardner is a category of his own. But I loved seeing Nathan Fillion play him in the Superman movie this year. So it's, you know, there's a lot to love. Yeah.

Our good friend and geekologist Joshua Noel, I was in his wedding and his, like, groom's gift for everyone were superhero socks. You know, just whatever hero he thought each groomsman resonated the most with. And he couldn't pick one for me. He got torn between two.

They were Deadpool and Green Lantern. So my socks just had Ryan Reynolds's face on them.

I say that that is a pretty perfect combo there.

So that was pretty sweet.

I love it.

That was pretty sweet. I love those socks.

Oh, I would. I, I almost. I. If I got socks like that, I think I would just, like, frame them somewhere. But. Yeah, but I love it.

Yeah.

Excellent. Krishna. What about you? What are some, like, you have a favorite Green Lantern and. Or any favorite stories?

Yeah, I like dj I love the concept of the Green Lantern. The idea of, like, willpower being the driving force for how you're able to actually operate.

And like, that could be incredibly dependent on your emotions. That can be incredibly dependent on what you're dealing with in your life. And that has been used to great effect and other stories along the way.

My guy is Hal. I mean, I love the Other ones that I've. That I know because I haven't gotten to everyone there.

I'm starting to learn a little bit about who Jessica Cruz is. I can't remember the other one you mentioned earlier. I don't know them. Simon Baz. Thank you.

But Kyle Rayner was the one I was introduced to first in the dcau. And then of course, we get to Jon Stewart being the actual Green Lantern in Justice League for that part. So I've always really appreciated him.

I'm glad that show introduced me to John. He's probably my second favorite. And Alan's got all the. I made the joke about the wood earlier.

You know, Guy Gardner got beat up by Batman with one punch. I mean, I think one is more devastating than the other.

Now as far as everything else is concerned, actually, I really enjoy the 70s series with him and Green Arrow together where you have Hal the more as like your fiscal conservative and Ali's Lamore of your, you know, bleeding heart liberal. And like the tension between the two of them as they would explore like, America and the world and. And the superheroing stuff.

And of course, you get that classic storyline with Speedy being addicted to heroin that comes from something like that that comes out around the time, I think, just a little bit after we've talked about this before on the Comic Code episode, I think, where, you know, Harry Osborne is one addicted to some pills in Amazing Spider Man Run, which kind of like doesn't kill the Comic Code authority, but like, starts, you know, to bleed it out there so that you can have stories like this where, like, you're not. You can have drugs in a story, but purpose isn't like, oh, you can't mention drugs at all.

It's like, no, let's see, look what the effects are and stuff like that. And of course, as TJ mentioned, like, the brightest night. Excuse me, brightest day, blackest night. Those are tremendous, great stories.

Sinestro Corps war. What I love what John's did too, is like, he went beyond green and yellow and he gave us the other spectrum.

Now we had like, you know, star sapphires and all that. And. But we get a little bit more about what does it mean for you to be a lantern based on hope or on greed.

And what happens, my goat.

Is it's Lex Luthor and him. Right. That are like debating, like, who should. Who should have the orange ring. It's really great.

And of course, you have the black and white, you know, life and death. And if I forgot to mention one, I forgot to mention one.

But it's so cool to see all the different ways this power could be interpreted because it's like, oh, you use Green Power Ring to do stuff. Okay. But let's build on that. Let's see what people can do.

Like Rainer, one thing I've gained more of appreciation for him is how creative he is with the ring. And we've had, like, multiple panels of him. In a way, he would use it. Now, Hal would never do. That guy would never do. So on and so forth.

And, like, he can create a construct of Gurren Lagann. He can create the AVA 01 unit. Like, it's. It's a lot of fun.

Because, you know, one of the best parts of being in a nerdy thing is when other nerds are making things that you can see a reference to and go, oh, that's just done for the sake of fan service. Like, no, these people are characters and they like the same things we do.

Yeah. It's also just, like, shameless cheating for the author or artist to use Kyle Rayner because he just.

Whatever you want to draw, that's what you can draw. Because he's an artist. He's like, what would be cool this week? I'm gonna do that. Kyle's seen that show and rocks. It's so cool.

Also, you gotta shout out Jeff Johns for writing the only other really memorable Lantern Corps. I can't even remember what it's called right now.

The phrase, you know, they're like, call because the Orange Lantern Corps is what's mine is mine and mine and mine. What's yours is mine and mine. So funny. That's so good.

Also, I thought when I was younger, Larflee was related to Beta Ray Bill, not related to anything else we're talking about.

That's actually fair, because I was like.

Why does it look like Beta Ray Bill? Not even the same.

I don't think I've ever thought about that until you said it. But that actually makes so much sense.

Yeah. Not even the same company.

I just thought it was weird.

Like, screw the Batman, Deadpool Cry. Let's make that a crossover there.

Yeah. Lar Fleas and Beta Ray Bill. I'm there.

I'll read that in a heartbeat. Yeah.

You know, revitalize the industry.

Do it. I love it, but yeah. Christian, I'm glad you brought up the Green Lantern Green Arrow miniseries. That is also one of my favorites.

I have the trade on my shelf, and I got Neil Adams to sign that years ago. That is also, I think, one of the best written stories in D.C. history that, like you said, examines prominent social issues.

It still has an impact today when looking at it. And that was really what introduced John Stewart. I love that storyline. A lot of the John, a lot of the Jeff John's stuff.

And like I said, one of my favorites is the Sam Humphrey's Green Lantern run with Simon Baz. Jessica Cruz. Simon Baz is a Muslim Green Lantern and then Jessica Cruz, she lives with anxiety.

And so like another case of like, they're young rookies. They both deal with different forms of discrimination and, you know, and internal struggles.

And they, you know, have this kind of buddy cop dynamic where they're little bit at of at odds with each other at first and they learn to work together. There's some great stories in that run that I really like and it really puts a human element to.

These are, you know, modern, relatable characters, I think. And there's some really great stories in that one. So, yeah, that's what I. I really like about the Green Line of Corpses. There's so many.

And there's different characters that you can really connect with and absolute Green Lantern.

Pretty interesting.

I've not read it yet. I bet. I want to, I mean, read a lot of the other episodes.

Yeah, pretty interesting. Very different. Probably like the second biggest departure from their mainline, you know, continuity.

I think that's fair behind Martian Manhunter, clearly, if you've actually read them.

The Acid Trip series. Yes.

Yeah.

Super good.

I love the absolute stuff. It's been like, I want to read it all, but it's. Yeah, it's. Yeah, yeah. Excellent. Sweet. Well, that is Green Lantern. I know. We still got the.

We've now got the Holy Trinity to cover here. So we will move on to Wonder Woman.

You know, he's contributed. But there was the Linda Garden series, which really, I think, cemented her place in pop culture. And then of course, the big live action movie in.

Because it was a year after bbs and then she'll likely be rebooted in the dcu. There's also Various animated adaptations. And as we keep coming back to, certainly my big intro was the dcau and her role on Justice League.

So also a lot of Wonder Woman stories out there, a lot of different versions of the character creation. What are your. Some of your favorite Wonder Woman stories, either in comics or in another medium?

Yeah, I'm gonna be honest. Perfectly honest. She's the one that I've read the least of and experienced the least of out of all, you know, five that we're mentioning here today.

And I think a big reason for that is my dad didn't collect as many of her comics, so I haven't read as many. Like, I've read, obviously, the relaunch in the 80s with Perez.

So seeing the new origin that's given for her, I know general backstory, stuff like that. I also know her creator is a very interesting man who had interesting ideas.

Yeah.

About the relationship between men and women that he would write into his comics.

And they're definitely not author avatars or author tracks or anything about how women should be submissive in that way and in a very different way than you would expect. So there's some baggage with, like, her origins, if you actually look into it. But beyond that, there's so much more to her character.

This idea of the Amazons living on their own and Themyscira and her mother, Hippolyta, like, wanting a child and every kind of God kind of imbuing a little bit into her, creating this kind of Galatea kind of thing that becomes Wonder Woman herself.

And then going out into the world of men and realizing the differences between how she grew up and what she's been taught to do versus the actual world the rest of us live in, and then learning to relate to the people around her and becoming her own woman in the midst of all that, that's a lot of fun. But, like, I'm really struggling to think of, like, an.

An actual story because, number one, it's been a while since I've read those 80s comics, and I'm not. I have not read the most recent one that's come out. The Kings behind that.

Right. I believe so. There's a lot of mainline DC stuff I haven't really kept up with at all. I'm more reading the absolute stuff, so I.

But I do believe King is.

Yeah, like, the most recent thing I can think of is not that quite recent.

And it's when she kills Maxwell Lord to protect the world, you know, from the OMAC stuff that got away from Bruce because we have to Write him in a crazy conspiratorial way. Otherwise we can have a Batman story.

Yeah.

A lot of questionable decisions made there. But like, as her character, though, love her. Once again, DCAU was my introduction to her.

Like, later on I would see the 70s series and it's definitely of its time, but also it's. It's effective enough as an introduction to her and what she's about.

Yeah.

I don't know if I have anything more to say on Wonder Woman.

Sure. I mean, it's similar to you. I like. I am no means a Wonder Woman expert. There's certain stories I like. I like. I really like the.

The Earth One series by Grant Morrison. The Earth One graphic novels were really cool. They were another kind of alternate take on the big characters.

So there was Batman, Earth one, Superman, Earth one, Wonder Woman. I think they did Teen Titan, some of those too. But. But the. Grant Morrison Wonder Woman Earth one was really cool. I. I think I.

Wonder Woman is one where you can kind of revamp and rework her origin a lot. And it still is interesting.

Like, there's always going to be the element of, okay, she was, you know, raised on Amazon and everything, but as far as her background, her lineage, like, you know, who are her main enemies are. A lot of that has changed over the character's history and in interesting ways, you know, and they.

And for like movie adaptations and stuff, they do different takes on that. And I, and I, we're talking about the absolute stuff.

I read volume one of Absolute Wonder Woman recently and loved it by Kelly Thompson and who's the writer hated.

Oh, yeah, I'm behind on that one too. But I've enjoyed it. It's a good one.

Yeah, that one's been fantastic.

The concept there of her being raised in hell and like this, like really a totally different examination of her character and giving her this new history. That's been fascinating. But yeah, I mean, like, I would say in some ways even more so than Batman and Superman.

It's like Wonder Woman is the most tied to classic mythology, Greek mythology, and takes all those concepts, I mean, being, you know, rec. Senate of Zeus and Hippolyta. There's a lot to play with there.

And yeah, I mean, and with the movies so far, I mean, we've only had two live action movies, so Far. Yeah. I mean, I. I do like the first one a lot. Yeah. 84 is another story. I actually, I didn't mind at the beginning of it, the tone of it.

It was everything after that. That was a. It was. There were choices made in that movie, but.

But nonetheless, I'm excited for future adaptations, you know, and see what the James Gunn universe does with her. And there are some really good animated movies too. The one that just called Wonder Woman, and then there was another one.

I think it's called Bloodlines. Um, I like that one as well.

Sounds great.

Yeah. Yeah, that was good. Um, yeah, I mean, there's a lot with this character. Again, my. The. The DCAU will always hold a special place in my heart.

And I think all of the characters there are done so well, Wonder Woman included. And I love just her dynamic on the team there. And. And, you know, and they explored her relationship with Batman in that one.

There was also, you know, they. She's had romances with sort of on and up with Batman. They did a direct romance with Superman in the new 52.

Um, which wasn't like my favorite, but it was interesting. And yeah, it was just kind of. It was kind of like. It felt kind of a little forced there. But. But nonetheless, I mean, great character.

Lot of great stories over the years.

And again, I'm not as big an expert on her as I am Batman, you know, Teen Titan, Superman, etc, but as another character that has endured for so long because of who she is a character, all of the iconic stories with her, her place in pop culture. Again, the Linda Carter series really cemented that place in the wider pop culture sphere, not just in comics. And I think it's continued to this day.

So, you know, she is a DC icon for a reason.

Yep.

Awesome. And. And yes, if you want to learn about the. The creator, it is some fascinating stuff. You can go down that Wikipedia.

I think there's a documentary about him too. It's. Yeah, he was like.

You're right.

Yeah, it was something about like. I want to say it came out not long after the. The Liveaction movie. But. But yeah, he's. He is a character. We. We'll leave it at that. But yeah, he has.

This is a family.

True.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and on that note, so we've got the two big ones to cover. You know, there's this guy, Batman. I don't know if we have a ton to say on.

Oh, you know, but I had to do a little research. Yeah. No name.

Public domain character.

Anyone? Public domain character. I Had to do a little research to figure out to find out who he was. But. But no.

I kind of hate saying Bob Kane's name after learning a lot about if you've seen the documentary Batman and Bill horrible person. So Bill Finger deserves way more of the credit for the Batman we know and love.

Turns out that comics creators are people just like the rest of us and some of them are very terrible.

Yep. Indeed. Indeed. So I mean I'm glad that Bill Finger finally got his recognition that he deserved. But what a battle that was.

And if you would do a to check out that story, go check. I think the documentary is still on Hulu if I'm not mistaken.

It's well worth checking out if you are at all interested in comics history and pop culture history. But yeah, Batman, I mean you know we could easily do multiple episodes on this and our histories with the character.

But I had Christian, I knew you and I both grew up of course on diamond. The Animated Series, which will be an all time classic I think is still the best adaptation of the character. There's so many stories from that.

Just quick my some of my favorite episodes include Almost Got him where the villains like Almost finished Batman together. There's Heart of ice, the Mr.

Freeze episode feet of Clay, the Clay Face One Christmas with the Joker which Will Rose and I just did an episode on on the Animated Series. Always be phenomenal, iconic and then some of my favorite of the comics.

I mean there's so many but the Scott Snider run Long Halloween is the book that really got me into graphic novels and comics. It will always hold a special place for me. Then of course you know, year one in Dark Knight Returns. I really like Black Mirror is a classic really.

Again, anything Snyder has done and then with Ed Brubaker both his main Batman run and then also Gotham Central is fantastic. It. It's really hard to like condense.

I I could go on and on about favorite Batman stories but you know I, I guess you hit on it a little bit earlier and I really liked what you said. But is there if you're trying to say what makes Batman so iconic other than you know, he's cool.

What is it about you for it on a personal note that has really stuck with you and made him made you still want to read Batman stories and watch Batman movies all these years later.

As evidenced on plenty of other shows we've done Together I started animated series. And as I'm growing up as a kid, like, oh, he looks cool. He does cool things. He does gadgets. He kind of glides around looking almost like he's flying.

And he beats up the Joker. He beats up Mr. Freeze or whatever. That's cool.

But then, like, what keeps me staying there as an adult when I actually, you know, reexamine these stories is seeing Bruce as a person. And, you know, there's that old adage, you know, your Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman is the real guy.

And you, like, depending on who's writing, I could even believe some of that. But, like, they're both Bruce in different ways. Like, the foppish billionaire who doesn't seem like he's really doing anything, and the.

The hard crime fighter at night, putting fear in the heart of criminals. Same guy. And the duality of that is something I really enjoy. Because why is he who he is?

Because there was a little boy, and you've seen the scene 50 billion times over. Because every time we have to adapt it, it has to be done this way.

He loses his parents at such a young age, and he has the ability to do something about it. And how many of us have had something? It doesn't have to be like, the loss of parents or anything like that.

Dramatic, but like something in our life that has happened.

We witnessed injustice and we want to do something about it, but we don't have the power, the capability, the money, whatever, to actually change things. Batman changes things, and yet the only reason things maintain a status quo is because we're writing comics and we have to make money.

Otherwise, you know, there would be a lot more reform.

Otherwise, the Joker would have been, you know, sentenced to death and then actually killed, you know, by firing squad or lethal injection or what have you. And then there would have been no Joker, too, in that same regard. Or he does live in a universe where you can always get resurrected.

But, like, I think one thing people get upset about Gotham and Batman's influences is how things don't seem to change. And that's more like a guilt of being a comic that doesn't have a finite end to say like an invincible does.

Because, you know, we're always going to say Batman came about, like, 12, 15 years ago, and whatever current year it is, that's when he showed up, about 12, 15 years ago. And all these things that there's no way anyone could ever put everything that's ever happened to DC continuity have happened here.

That's when those things happen. No, whatever. It's comics, so you have to get over that a little bit.

And then actually exploring Bruce the man is something I really gravitate to, because written poorly, he could just be some other snob billionaire that no one likes because you have money and I don't. You don't do anything to change anything. He could be your Jeff Bezos or whatever, but know that he uses his money effectively.

He uses both parts of his life effectively to the detriment of himself, because he is not a healthy man. And yet he is doing these things so that someone else doesn't have to end up like him. And there's one.

I think it was a Detective comics annual or maybe, where he ends up going to an alternate reality and he sees a young Bruce Wayne with his parents going down crime alley, and he's kind of like, oh, no, what do I do? And he ultimately decides, even if I'm robbing the world of Batman, at least I let this kid have his parents. And he saves them.

And what does he end up doing? Without even realizing it, he inspires that alternate Bruce Wayne to become Batman because he saw the kind of man he could be.

What more do you need from someone like that? That he can inspire someone without saying a word about, hey, here's why I do my life's mission. I saved you because I lost mine. Like, no, no, no.

Just by presence alone. That was created.

And I'm glad you brought up a specific moment like that for me. It's in under the Red Hood, when Red Hood Jason Todd confronts Batman.

At the end, he's revealed who he is, and he's so furious at him for not killing the Joker. And he says, you know, like, how could you let him live after what he did to me, after he took me away from you?

And Bruce, as Batman says to him, you know, of course I wanted to bury him and, you know, and kill him and. And make him pay for the graveyards he's filled. But as soon as I take that step, I can never go back, you know, any.

I betray everything I've stood for and everything my parents instilled in me. And that moment has really resonated with me over the years in the comic and in the animated movie.

And that just really points to who Batman is a character. It's not about the gadgets, the suits, and the. All the cool accessories.

But, you know, we don't talk about them as much because Batman, it's. It's the character that has stayed with us all of these years and has been adapted.

And, and yes, it gets very tiring seeing the Wayne's death scene over and over again. But there's a reason that's cemented into pop culture's memory, is that that is the defining event which leads to Batman's creation.

And it's the driving force of who he is and why he does what he does. Yeah.

And like, it gets annoying to us because we didn't live it, we didn't go through it. And that's all he can ever think about at the end of the day.

Everything he's ever done, you know, stopping corruption in Gotham and the police force and the mobs, working with Superman, working with other superheroes in the Justice League, raising Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, so on and so forth in different ways because that happened to him. And he can't ever let it go because he doesn't go to a therapist. And you know what? That's fine. Otherwise we wouldn't have Batman.

It's not good for Bruce, but it's good for us, the comic reader or television watcher or what have you.

Absolutely. I mean, we, we got to keep these stories going. And, and you know, you also did an episode on Batman beyond, one of my all time favorites, too.

I mean, Terry McGinnis is one of the greatest, too. I love the legacy there of the character that it doesn't always have to be Bruce Wayne. There can be others take up the mantle.

And Dick Grayson has been, has been Batman at one point too. So it's, it's that. It's that symbol of who Batman is that's allowed it to endure for so long.

So, you know, again, I know we can keep going on and on here. I can also go on and on about the next character. But we do have to wrap up soon.

So let's go ahead and say a little bit about the last and the first icon of dc, Superman. You know, the man of Steel himself.

But we did a lot of Superman coverage over the summer and in the fall, of course, with the new Superman movie. So there's a lot of episodes. You Go there to check out if you want a little deeper coverage.

Christian and I did one entirely on Superman, the Animated Series, which is one of my all time favorites. And then of course, we did really multiple episodes on the movie itself and some of our other big influences. So that I say those.

Because, you know, we, we're going to give a very, very condensed version here about, um, some of our favorite stories and, and you know, what the character means to us. But, um, yeah, again, like I mentioned this earlier, again, Batman is my favorite fictional character of all time.

But I think Superman has also just stuck with me for the longest time. Like I said, I felt that.

Not that I'm like, been, you know, a complete outsider, but like I said, I, I mean, I, I work for a digital health publisher and part of my job is. And how I started was writing a column about my disability. I live with a disability called sma.

And it's affected me in many ways, you know, not just physically, but mentally over the years. And so I felt very much when I read Superman stories, when I watch Superman stories.

Yes, I'm not an alien from a dying planet, and I didn't come here on a rocket ship. But it's not about that.

It's the, the reason you can relate to Superman and to other superheroes is we've all felt like an outsider in some ways before. And it's that human element of Clark Kent that really defines him.

And you know, for me, I mean, of course it was the Animated Series, but the Superman 78 movie, I, I still remember the first times I watched that, you know, as a kid on dvd. And it just struck me, you know, so wholeheartedly. And I was even.

I was listening to an interview with Mark Wade last night, and he actually told the story about how when he was growing up, I mean, he, he was always very literate, but he didn't know he wanted to be a writer till much later. But it wasn't until he saw the Superman 78 movie that he had this epiphany where he was in a dark place at the time.

And he decided right then that whatever I do with my life, Superman has to be a part of it. And I was like, wow, that's, you know, that, that's powerful.

And, you know, and he went on to write some of the greatest Superman stories of all time, including Birthright, which I gotta give a shout out to here. And then Grant Morrison's also Superman. I also love the Patrick Leeson Peter Tomasi run from Rebirth. These are you. I wanted to Highlight real quick.

But, but yeah, that's really what, you know, friend really means to me. I mean, there's also, you know, he's a writer, he has two loving parents.

Like, there's a lot of ways I relate to him and you know, and watching stuff like Smallville and the Animated series and seeing this long journey of him becoming who he is, that's always what's really resonated with me the most about the character.

So when people say like, oh, he's so unrelatable, he's too powerful, blah, blah, blah, I, I don't think they've really gotten a sense of who the character is.

And you know, I, I think if you just turn to some of those stories I mentioned and of course, you know, with the, the movie, the Summer, which we've discussed in depth. And I absolutely love, you know, those point to the human side of Superman.

That for me especially and many others as made him have such, this, this long lasting impact.

Yeah, I've been enjoying Wade's Action comics right now. Going, going to the back to history of him being Superboy and learning what does it mean to actually be a superhero?

What does it mean to be a person wanting to fight for justice? Does that mean you just beat up everyone you want and that makes you right?

Or is it something like you have to, you know, play part of the game sometimes and make people expose their evil themselves by instead of just beating them up, like getting them in a situation where they accidentally out the evil that they've done in one of the more recent issues. Because Clark is the best of us.

And the fact that he's not human is even more compelling to me because he willingly takes on a weaker form during his life as Clark Kent to relate to us, to be like us. And yeah, I'm trying not to make the Jesus comparison because once again, created by two Jewish authors creators there.

But there is a correlation there that has become more part of modern comics than what they originally intended. Siegel and Schuster. Right, because that's exactly what Jesus did for us, coming in the form of God and man, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Let's move on from that. But that's what really intrigues me about him. Because yeah, I went through that phase. I've said it on other episodes before.

It's like, Superman's boring. He's just a big blue boy scout. He's all powerful.

The only thing that messes with this kryptonite, because I didn't know about the weakness to magic or the other stuff because I chose to only narrow my vision. But you know what? I think I've also said this in other episodes, too.

I think a good litmus test of someone is how they view Clark, whether as Superman or as Clark Kent. And if you can't relate to someone like him, I think that says more about you than it does the character. Because he is the best of us.

He loves in a way that is unlike anyone else. Yeah, superheroes do a good job of loving other people and looking out for them. You know, Batman loves Gotham.

He loves, you know, the kids under his care and stuff like that. But, like, there's a difference between the cowl and that being like your Bruce type characters.

And there's a difference between the cape, which is like, the ideal. Who we're supposed to be, who am I supposed to look up to? I want to be like that, living in a world, looking after other people.

So whether it's him, you know, in the ads from the 40s and 50s saying, hey, the Ku Klux Klan shouldn't be a thing, hey, the people around you, yeah, they're different than you, but you know what I mean? They're still American. Like, love them, just as I love them.

And sometimes it takes a comic book character for someone to put out the click in their mind. And Superman's great at that. Like, he even redeemed for me. I think I probably talked about this too, in the past. The Authority.

I couldn't care less about the Authority. But in the Philip Kennedy Johnson run on Action Comics, if I remember correctly, he brings a lot of them into the story.

And, like, you know, this is not my favorites. You know what? He cared enough about them to make me say, okay, is he just being an idiot? He's just being naive, idealist.

No, because he sees something in them that could be better. He even sees something in Mongol, who is an absolute monster that, like, you, there could be something more.

Same thing with Lex Luthor and All Star Superman.

Run.

Like the moment when Lex kind of sees the world through Superman's eyes, and this is what you see all the time. What a beautiful moment. This is why you do what you do. That's the guy I want to be. Someone who can inspire someone to see this world and look. Oh, oh.

That's why you do what you do. That's why you have this faith that you do.

That's why you say the things that you do, because you see this world, even despite its many flaws, and you want to do something to make it even better.

Couldn't agree more. I Mean there. You know it. That line in the Superman movie.

I actually have a friend drew for me for Christmas and he put the quote on there of Lois saying to him, you know, you look at everyone you've ever met and think they're beautiful. And. And Superman says, maybe that's the real punk rock. I'm like, oh, it gets me every time. Yeah, it's.

It's cheesy, you know, but it makes perfect sense.

That's who he is. Yeah. And it's okay to have like. I think there's a way to have a.

A cheesy character that is someone you can aspire to and that still has depth, you know, And I think. And Superman is the prime example of that. So, yeah, I love it. Why not?

We could go on and on about Superman and again, do go back and listen to those episodes because I. I really like how those turned out. And sorry to TJ had to slip out earlier, but I'm glad he got.

We covered Flash and Green Lantern first because I think those were the ones he wanted to talk about the most. But GR. This was a great episode.

And before we go, do you have any recommendations either from any of the stuff we mentioned here or, you know, or something completely unrelated you want to give a shout out to?

Yeah, this a little goofier one. To help myself fall asleep. I've been listening.

I typically listen to like Family Guy or American dad or Futurama or something like that because I've watched them all the time. But I started rewatching Robot Chicken and I realized there's so many seasons I never actually saw because I didn't have cable during part of them.

Like, oh, man, I'm missing a lot. Not every sketch is the best, but, you know, it's still fun and it's still written by geeks for geeks to talk about stuff they love.

Robot Chicken's good stuff. I. I always love that. This sketch, like with George Lucas, like, you know, yelling at a. It wasn't in a Robot Chicken writer like that.

You know what I'm talking about? That video where. Where. Where they say like something about Mara A. Jade and he's like, get out of this office right now.

I think that was Robot Chicken sketch, if I'm not mistaken. It's. You can look it up. But I. But okay, I believe it's Robot Chicken, right? That might. Specials.

I did maybe.

Yeah, I've just seen it on YouTube. But like. Yeah, that. But that one, yeah, pretty great. But Robot Chicken's good stuff. My recommendation. Yeah. Right, right.

My recommendation, if you want to go deeper into this stuff, there's a book called It's Been Updated.

I've had my copy for years, so it's a, they've updated it since, but it's called DC Year by Year, A visual chronicle, and it's basically an encyclopedia about history. It's fascinating.

So it's got, you know, everything dating back to the 30s and the creation of these characters all the way through Silver Age, Bronze Age, modern.

I, the, the copy I have goes up through like, because I got it when I was in high school, so it goes up like right before, you know, they have updated editions since then, but it's, it's fascinating if you're like a nerd about this stuff like we are and you want to dig deeper. I, I, I, I not recommend that one enough, so. Awesome. Well, Gretchen, always a blast. This is great and I want to wish everyone a happy New Year.

I'll still be recording some this week, but, but thank you so much for joining us again.

If you are new here to the show, we have a great time peeking out and talking about everything from all, you know, different aspects of fandom to some of the deeper stuff about faith, philosophy, etc, and so we're glad you're here. I hope you check us out more and share with your friends. And I hope you all have a wonderful new year. And remember, we are all a chosen people. Sa.