Will Rose and TJ Blackwell dive deep into the epic clash between Autobots and Decepticons in the latest episode of Systematic Geekology, featuring their guest, Keno Canady, back in the mix. Right off the bat, they dive into what really shapes a hero or a villain, using the iconic faces of Optimus Prime and Megatron as prime examples. With their contrasting philosophies—freedom versus tyranny—this trio explores how these legendary characters inspire not just their allies but also the fans around the globe. They reflect on the long-standing impact of these figures, sharing personal anecdotes and insights about the lore that makes them tick. So, whether you're Team Autobot or Team Decepticon, this episode promises to serve up some juicy discussions that'll have you geeking out all over again!

The discussion navigates through the labyrinth of the Transformers universe, examining not just the characters but the thematic undercurrents that power the franchise. Will, Keno, and TJ dive into the essence of what it means to be a hero or a villain, using the iconic figures of Optimus Prime and Megatron as case studies. They reflect on their own experiences with Transformers, recalling how each character's development resonates with their personal tales of growth and mentorship. The nostalgic recollections serve as a backdrop for a broader conversation about the moral frameworks that govern these characters, with Optimus representing hope and altruism, while Megatron stands as a symbol of ambition gone awry. Listeners are treated to a rich tapestry of insights as the hosts dissect the motivations that drive these characters. Keno passionately shares his perspective on Optimus's leadership, emphasizing his ability to inspire loyalty and courage in his team. This is juxtaposed against Megatron's fear-based rule, illustrating a stark contrast in how leadership can manifest.

The episode also cleverly addresses the cultural significance of the Transformers, pointing out that beyond the toys and cartoons, there's a deeper narrative about the battle between good and evil, underscored by the characters' relationships with their mentors. As the trio navigates through various story arcs and character developments, they pose pressing questions about the implications of mentorship and the legacies we leave behind, inviting the audience to reflect on their own lives. Through humorous anecdotes and thoughtful reflections, the episode captures the essence of the Transformers saga.

Listeners are encouraged to examine their own heroes and villains, drawing parallels between their journeys and those of Optimus and Megatron. By the episode's end, it becomes clear that the conversation transcends mere fandom; it becomes a philosophical exploration of identity, influence, and the choices that define us as individuals. The hosts leave the audience with a sense of nostalgia and introspection, urging them to consider who the heroes and villains are in their own narratives, and what lessons they can learn from these timeless characters.

Takeaways:

1. In this episode, the trio dives deep into the origins of iconic characters like Optimus Prime and Megatron, exploring the influential figures that shaped their destinies and ideologies.
2. Will, TJ, and Keno reflect on how the complex relationship between Optimus and Megatron mirrors real-world dynamics of leadership and power struggles.
3. The discussion highlights how Optimus Prime's leadership style, defined by sacrifice and hope, stands in stark contrast to Megatron's ruthless quest for control and dominance.
4. Listeners learn about the evolution of Transformers from a simple toy line to a cultural phenomenon with rich lore, showcasing the importance of character development in storytelling.
5. The episode emphasizes the significance of mentorship in shaping heroes and villains, illustrating how the 'faces behind' these characters contribute to their narratives.
6. Finally, the hosts share personal anecdotes about their connections to Transformers, revealing how these characters impacted their childhoods and views on leadership.

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Check out this year's annual theme, "The Faces Behind Us":

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Check out other episodes with Will:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/4559ab55-4b6a-4432-b0a7-b61540df8803

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Listen to every episode with TJ:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/f4c32709-d8ff-4cef-8dfd-5775275c3c5e

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Don't miss any of our other episodes with great guests like Keno:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/0d46051e-3772-49ec-9e2c-8739c9b74cde

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Foreign.

As Optimus prime said, freedom is the right of all sentient beings. And as Megatron said, peace through tyranny. Yeah. Which one would you choose? Which one would you follow? I kind of a feeling what I'm gonna do.

Welcome, geekologist. Welcome to another episode of Systematic Geekology. Geekology. And you're listening to the podcast that is more than meets the eye.

Because we're not only just a podcast, but we're also on YouTube. So hop on over there, smash that, like, button. Let us know that you're there. Chime in the content. Comments. We're really excited about this episode.

This episode is a part of our Faces Behind Us series which we're exploring. You know, in our intro, you hear my voice. That's me. Will Rose say, ask the question, what makes a hero? What makes a villain?

And often it's the people that raise them, guide them, lead them, mentor them, coach them. The faces behind them that shapes these heroes and villains. And we're exploring that in this series.

And today we're going to explore the Transformers, Optimus prime and Megatron. You know, no person is an island. We're not alone by ourselves. We're surrounded by people who guide us and lead us and shape us who we are.

And they are no different. They. These fictional figures are no different. And I'm here with some of my favorite geekologists, TJ and Kino. Welcome back, Kino.

Glad you're part of this episode.

And listen, glad to be back. This is. This is going to be exciting. Ah, gosh. Let me say this real quick before we start anything.

Yeah, yeah.

Before you all reached out to me. I will. I was re watching Generation the first gen of Transformers on tubi. I was. Was just falling. I started off with the movie first.

Then I was like, yeah, I. Yeah, so. So I'm ready. I'm ready for the day.

So you were watching that and all of a sudden you got. You got a call. There was a. There was a. The spirit moved. And you got a text message, said, keena, you know, you part of Transformers episode.

And you're like, yeah, in fact, yeah, I'm ready. I've been watching. I was.

It's crazy how that happens.

It's crazy how that happens. I know, I know. Well, glad to be part of this.

And I really liking this about exploring these characters in our fandoms and what made them who they are and who was behind them and guiding to lead them. And I'm excited about this one too. But as always, let's. Let's start out with what we're geeking out on. Kino, what do you. What do you.

You know, you're watching the. The original cartoon to the Transformers. But. But what else are you geeking out on out there? What are you geeking out on?

So, two things. One, I just started this new anime called. And I'm pulling it up because I don't remember the name of it because I just watched the first episode.

Sentence to be a hero.

It's good.

Listen, I. I was like, this is. This is. This is good. I mean it up. Right? I mean. And also, I am. I'm on the Sims. I'm still on my Sims.

Nice.

Four. So. So. And they just started. They just did a new update, so all my mods are just horrible. This system crashed.

I gotta just save everything and just wait till they give updates. Yeah, that's what I'm getting.

Yeah. Cuz that was like a big thing. They just. Didn't they just update this? Yeah, yeah.

To introduce this new. This new. This new expansion pack they got with the Legacy. Legacy and family hierarchy and castles and all that stuff.

So it messed a lot of people up.

Oh, listen, I don't want to just get it, but this. This is what I do. Like, literally, I have one guy, I made him immortal. So he has five generations. Yes, he has five generations. And.

And I'm like, y' all are messing up everything that I have going on.

See, so there's a parable on that somewhere that'll preach there's a certain illustration about things you build, people tear down. I think. I think. I think that would work. Tj, what are you geeking out on, buddy?

I. I don't. I can't really say Lost anymore. Nothing. I'm like, you're in a void. I guess I'm trying to, like, get back into my. My regular nerd stuff, you know?

Like, I'm trying to catch back up to the Fallout show, which I fell behind on because I was watching Lost, and I'm trying to catch back up with Frieren, which I fell behind on because I've been watching Lost and Jujutsu Kaisen. Because I was watching Lost.

Yeah.

So good.

I. I grieved. I grieved a while after Loss wrapped up and finished, I was like, what I'm gonna do with my life, what's gonna happen? You know, that kind of stuff.

When the series you really belove comes to an end, there's a grieving period and the stages of grief along with that keno, we ever watched the TV show Lost, where it was ever a part of your fandom or watch history? No.

All right. I mean, I know. I know a little bit of it, but no, that's. That's not. I should go back and watch it.

Yeah.

Because I'm watching Re. Watching the Mentalist now.

Okay, cool.

Also good. Yeah, you should watch.

Yeah. Forewarned. Forewarned.

You watch that first pilot of Loss, you're gonna lose about a month of your time because you're gonna be obsessed and want to keep watching.

So is it. Is it like. Is it like the Walking Dead? Like, because the Walking Dead to me. Only reason I said it, because I was.

I wanted to know how did the zombies get here? That's all I really want to know.

You'll. You'll get into that point where you're like, okay, what's up with the island?

Okay.

It's like, okay, well, like, why did the plane crash? It'll. It'll get you there. You'll.

You'll. It'll wrap around. It'll. It'll share. It doesn't answer all questions, but it answers a lot. Okay. It's not like walking there where you never find out.

Right, Right. Right. Which was. I was like, okay, but. I mean. But the storyline got interesting, so I didn't care about why I started. I was like, you know what?

I just want to Rick to. To win, to get everybody.

I know. That's right. That's legit. Oh, I love it. Yeah. I. I'm geeking out on college basketball these days.

People know that I live in Chapel Hill and that I'm a huge UNC fan, you know, And I know that probably sports cred.

There's people who really love me and people that hate me because of that, but I. I'm gonna humble, brag, and say I have some tickets to UNC Duke game on Saturday night, and I'm very nervous. By the time you're listening to this, we'll know the out this game probably. But for me, I'm excited. And even if Duke wins, I'm.

I'm excited to see Boozer live on.

On the court and see what the hype is with this guy who's probably number one draft pick, but I think Caleb Wilson should be up there, 1, 2, or 3 pick in the draft, and he's a. He's a hustler. So I. I can't wait. That's what I'm geeking out on right now. And we'll do an episode on YouTube about geeking out on sports.

Sports geeks. We'll do that in the near future, maybe before March Madness. We'll see what happens. But we'll bring our. Our sports fans have a round table.

Geeking out on sports. That's what we're doing.

Did I ever tell you almost went to Duke?

No.

Well, it was up there for me.

I tell people I pull for Duke academics, I pull for Duke research. I pull for, like, the Duke Hospital, their work in the sciences and research. I pull for every.

Whatever Duke is studying and research to better the world, I pull for. That does not mean I need to pull for their basketball team.

Correct.

I pull for their scientists and their heart doctors in their hospital. I don't. I don't pull for their best.

I always say when people ask, you know, are you. Are you a Carolina Duke fan? My response is, we don't worship devils in this house.

That's right.

Right. There's a reason the sky is Carolina blue. Got me, right? I love it. I could talk about that all day. We'll do that another episode soon.

In the meantime, rate and review our show wherever you get your podcast. It really helps us get noticed out in the world in the podcast game. I. There's a lot to choose from. There's a lot of great podcasts.

We're not the only one in town. But to rate and review and share with a friend, that would be awesome. We want to thank our financial supporters. Let's. Let's today, let's.

Let's thank Austin. Austin Nance. Thanks, buddy. We really appreciate you supporting the show and being a financial supporter.

You can get your own shout out if you become an official member of Sysmac Ecology on our website, in the description, in the show notes. You can go down there, click on it. You can see all of our playlists. You can see our merch. You can become any kind of member.

You can become a member for free. Just to get our extra content a little bit later on, we're going to ask an extra question, a bonus question with this episode.

And then if you're a member, a supporter, you can go over there and. And find out how we answer that question.

So we'll, we'll lure you with a question and then you gotta, you know, become a member to find out how we answer it. We'll do that a little bit later on. Well, here we go. New episode. Let's do it, y'.

All.

You ready?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. All right. So the faces behind us, Transformers. Yes. What a big IP They. How many. How many movies did they make? They made seven live action movies. Yeah.

Yeah, there's seven. There are seven. Trans Bumblebee, if you count Bubblebee.

Yeah.

Why would you not count Bumblebee? And then. And then, you know, start in the 80s with toys, and they're like, we gotta sell more toys, so let's make a cartoon about it.

And then that went on for a while and then made a movie, an animated movie, which is a classic that Keto watches and falls asleep to. And I do. I sometimes do as well. And man, the music and the soundtrack for that, A lot of bangers on that one is. Is so good. There's a lot of lasers.

There's a lot of screaming. There's a lot of action. Oh, wow. That movie. But it's got a long history of. Of production since the 80s. Been around a long, long time.

And so I'm curious about our history with. With the IP Keno. We'll start with you, buddy. What. What's your history with this ip? How did you first discover it?

What was your first introduction and then where you are now?

Listen, I'm. I'm a child. I'm a baby. 80s baby. So I remember watching it live every week, begging my mother to buy me Optimus Prime. Bumblebee. I did get Optimus.

I didn't. I got Bumblebee, but I didn't get Megatron. I don't know why she didn't give me Megatron. But that's a gun.

Because it's a gun.

Yeah, it didn't matter.

It didn't matter.

But. But so. So my. My history is. Is the first gen and watching those just iconic battles and just.

And looking back now, I can see how they tried to push the narrative, but as a kid, you didn't care about any of that stuff. Except for when they killed optimists in the movie and then did not animated 86 movie.

86. Yeah, yeah.

Yes. Yeah. They did not replace him until, like, season three or season four in the series. I'm like, how dare you? So. So that. That.

That shocked my soul because I was like, he's not coming back.

And then you.

You was like, he's gonna come back because he's a cartoon character. Nope, not when you watch the cartoon. He didn't come back for a while.

Yeah, and it started a trend too. Like, Michael Bay killed him once. He died in Transformers 1 for a little bit. Now they just kill him for fun, and he comes back in the same movie.

In the same movie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Were you there, like, overnight with these movies?

Oh, oh, oh, yes. I, I own the DVDs, so. Yeah, so. So, no, I, I.

Even though some of them did suck and did not make any sense, I still supported and went to go see these movies.

Yeah, that's how I'm a Star Wars. I'm gonna be there no matter what, no matter how to have problems with it or whatever. I'm there. I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna. Yeah, it's my baby.

I've seen, I've seen all the movies. I, I love. I, I, I, I have a love hate relationship with the movies because it don't. Some of the stuff don't make sense.

How they did the, the history and the drawing. I'm like, no, this is not.

But I also have to point out, though, I did not like, you know, how they tried to revamp the cartoon and, and I was not a fan of Beast Wars.

Sure.

Oh, you didn't like Beast Wars.

I did not.

It might be ugly, but dinosaurs rock.

They do. They do. They do. But that was, that was my thing, though. That wasn't my thing. That's just me.

You know, we're not gonna cover it a lot, but y' all know the Transformers hall of Fame? You know that's a thing, right?

No, so it's, it's a Hasbro thing where they, you know, every few years they'll induct, you know, a couple of Transformers and, like, people who contribute to Transformers heavily into the Transformers hall of Fame. Of course, the first five Transformers were Optimus Prime.

Yes.

Megatron, Bumblebee, and Starscream. And guess who number five was?

I don't know.

Dinobot.

Oh, okay, that makes sense.

Dinobot.

Okay. Yeah. Not ten. One. Battlebot.

No, it's Beast Wars. Beast Wars. Dinobot. They're like, yep, hall of fame.

Okay.

Hall of fame. First class.

Not the radio. Not like, what's the radio that turns into a jukebox? And then tape cassette came out. Sound wave. Sound wave.

Starscream made it first class. Soundwave didn't. Not barricade. Not Ironhide. Dinobot.

Dinobot.

Isn't that nuts?

I did not know there was a hall of fame.

I'm.

I'm sitting there.

Yeah, look that up. Well, tj, what's your, what's your history with the ip?

You know, so you're, you're, you were born A little after Kino and I, as Kino, where and I are 80 babies. You're. You were a little later. What was your first history with this or your first introduction?

What was the first thing I was. I was born 15 years after Transformers. Yeah, I believe it.

Yep, Yep.

Okay. For me, Transformers just kind of around growing up. Like, it'd be on TV sometimes Saturday morning. You know, I'm not.

When I was little little, I was outside a lot. I like to run good. I grew out of that, thankfully.

Good parents, good parenting.

Yeah, yeah. But so, like, I was familiar, you know, some of my friends had the Transformers.

Eventually I started getting Transformers for Christmas before I ever watched the movies. I remember I had like, I heard an Optimus Prime. Of course I had a Primus Transformer, which if you know is Cybertron, like the planet.

Yeah, that's Primus. And it was huge. It was just the planet Cybertron. It turned into a whole Transformer. It was awesome, really.

Where the planet turned into just a transitional guy.

Yeah, his name's Primus. Like, like the rest of them, like.

Oh, that's a car.

No, it's a dude. It's a robot.

You know, there's only one girl out there. We'll talk about her later.

Yeah, there's two. There's two actually.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah, it's RC and Elita one. And they look extremely similar, but they're.

Not the same character.

Right.

But yeah, for me, it was really the toys. And then it wasn't until like, high school, I was hanging out with a friend, like, just like at his house.

I was staying for the weekend, and he was super, super into like G1, you know, 80s Transformers cartoon. So we just ended up watching a lot of it and I was like, okay, yeah, I get it, I get it.

And of course, by that point, I'd seen Transformers, you know, Michael Bay, Transformers 1 and Revenge of the Fallen and Dark side of the Moon, and Age of Extinction last night. So, like, I was, I was, I was, I was hooked already. But I had never really experienced G1 until then. And that's, that's all I difference.

That's a good story.

It really did then does makes a difference.

And then I watched Beast Wars a few years ago and okay, I think Beast wars is awesome. I think it looks horrendous, like genuinely awful.

Yes.

Beast wars cartoon or the Rise of the Beast movie? You're talking about the cartoon.

Cartoon, cartoon. Because I tried to watch it. Because I remember Josh told me me to go and watch it. I, I, I Gave it a few tries.

Okay.

I was like, I, I, I.

It's really rough.

It is.

But I love dinosaurs so too.

I do too. Those are great stories. I, I am, you know, the first toy came out what in the 80s, like 83, 84. I was a 10, 11 year old around that time.

And my brother's a little bit younger. I remember he got the to I was main starting to get pre teen prepuberty and I was like, do I really want to do these? Do I be a.

Do I want to skateboard and surf more than I want to play with toys? A little bit of both in between. I was a tweener and then. But my brother ended up getting some of the toys I like.

They're pretty cool that you can transform these, you know, things into robots and who doesn't like robots? And remember the cartoon a little bit. But it wasn't right in my wheelhouse with ip. I was a big Star wars guy then. And other things, comic books.

How cool is this Michael Bay. It looks really cool. The trailer looks cool. And and we went and saw this movie and we absolutely adored it.

I remember at one point there's some street fight road race with Smashing Pumpkins playing in the background and the guitar was just like riff was just like killing it while they're going down the road. And my wife turns to me and was just like, just whispers. This is one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my entire life.

And and I was like, hell yeah it is. And we just had that bonding moment. Like we are really geeking out hard at this moment.

When that guitar started riffing and they're just going down the road. We're like, this is the coolest thing we've ever seen.

So that movie made an impact and then we were there for a few other movies and then it's just kind of been around. I definitely because of. And we'll talk about this a maybe TJ throw up that slide of the the creators or. Or maybe the Daniel Warren Johnson comic.

So yeah, so you kind of see the like gen one and you see like the movie version here on YouTube and then you see the COVID to Daniel Warren Johnson's Transformers reboot a couple years ago and Daniel Warren Johnson was one of my favorite comic book creators today. He's both as an artist and a writer and sometimes both. So he did the writing and the Dr. On. On this Transformer reboot from Image Comics and this.

And I was. I was right there. Had to buy issue one and kind of got into it, and I love it.

So I'm kind of back into reading Transformers because of Daniel Warren Johnson and keeping up with the lore and. And then him in an interview talking about the influence of the.

And so I went back and watched it myself, and it is right there. You know, if I need something to watch background music or fall asleep to, like, you know, I'll put it on and. And watch it. So there you go, guys.

Transformers. Huge fandom. I love it when I go to a Comic Con or. Or Islands of Adventure and there's got somebody cosplayed as a literal Transformer there.

And they always. Yeah, there's always some.

The Megatrons and the Optimus Primes and all that stuff are walking around Comic Con or Islands of Adventure and everyone's getting their picture taken because it's just an incredible, incredible. It makes you think, like, if these things were really on Earth, we'd be like, whoa, blown away by it. So super cool. That. That's our experience there.

And so when we talk about the. The characters, you know, we're. Tj share a little bit about. So you have Office Prime. He's the leader of the Autobots.

Megatron is the leader of the Decepticons. And so whoever they're, you know, all these Autobots, Decepticons look up to them. They're.

They're the face behind them and directing and guiding them in their leadership and. And their. Their goals and. And who they want to be or take over in. In the world.

But I guess there's some history there of who shaped them, who were before them. I don't know that lore. Tj, Kino, kick it off. What. What are some of the lore and backlore of the pieces, the faces behind Optimus prime and Megatron?

Mm.

So that's one of the reasons that this, you know, that Transformers is what it is is because it's so much deeper than, like, the surface level. Originally it was just like an American import of a Gundam series. They wanted Gundam for Americans.

Optimus prime was like, this design on the left was supposed to be a piloted suit.

Ah, gotcha. Okay.

And then the, you know, American Hasbro was like, no, no, not for us.

We can't sell that.

Not for us.

That's just a robot that turns into a truck.

Because a little boy or anybody like a truck and a robot, and they could be the same in one and transport to another. Yeah, yeah.

It's the coolest concept of all time.

But, yeah, it's so much deeper than that because not only do they create the characters as these, like, massive focal points in the series, you know, in the. In the universe as Transformers age, they kind of built on that more and more and more, and it goes through kind of a lot.

You have to watch kind of a lot of Transformers to really understand.

Yes.

What motivates Optimus and what motivates Megatron. Because Optimus at first is just, like, hailed as this scion of leadership and nobility and honor, and it's just like, yeah, that's just him.

He's just like that. He's been like that forever, which is. Which is pretty much true. But he does still have his influences, like Alpha Trion.

Alpha Tron is the one I know Alpha Trion, the.

The oldest Transformer, one of the oldest Transformers, one of the original 13 in universe. He's one of the 13 who were, like, hand built by Primus, who's like the Transformers God. And he's just the only one left.

He's the only one that lasted to, like, the modern era.

For Optimus, Alpha Trion is always there as, like, an advisor, you know, he is the wisest Transformer because of his immense age, and that's the role he likes to fill. I was actually super surprised seeing him in, like, the Bay Verse.

Just.

I didn't expect that kind of bag pull from. From Michael Bay. But he brought it out. He did bring it out. There's a couple others that are really, really interesting.

Sentinel prime, if you've seen Transformers 1 to you, or if you've seen Dark side of the Moon, whichever one that you know.

Yeah.

Bay Verse, one that he's in.

It's hard to keep them organized in my head, but Sinnoh prime originally was just like one of the Primes, like one of Optimus's ancestors sort of in the same dynasty. But ever since then, every story has used him as like an antagonist, like Son of Prime. Oh, yeah, that guy sucks. He betrayed everyone.

Still a super cool character, but he's one of those ones where it's a little different. He was once noble. He fell from grace.

And Optimus usually has to see him as an obstacle to be overcome, which is still incredibly significant in his growth. Bumblebee, of course. Yeah, he's Bumblebee. Alita 1. We'll talk about her in a second.

The actual team that has made, I think, the biggest impact for Transformers popularity. Michael Bay. Of course. Transformers wouldn't be what it is without the Bay movies. As unfortunate as some of them might be.

It's. It's.

It's rough. It's rough. Bod Budianski is the original author of, like, the first Transformer comic books.

He also did some work on Ghost Rider, like, the early Ghost Rider stuff. Super cool, but without him, obviously.

Same deal.

Right. Like, the G1 still would have happened, but the comic books, they had a lot. It's where a lot of this info comes from.

And then, of course, Peter Cullen.

Peter. Peter. Oh, my God.

Peter Cullen. Who else but Peter Cullen?

Who don't know Peter Cullen? Who's Peter Cullen?

Is Optimus Prime. It is.

He is.

He is Optimus Prime.

He is.

He's also Mario.

What?

Wait, what?

Yeah, he's Mario.

What? He's Mario. Okay.

Okay. Yep, he's also Mario. He's also Parthenax in Skyrim. Like the. The Good Dragon, the end of Skyrim. He's got range, but he's mostly Optimus Prime. Yeah.

It was incredible.

Yeah, it was. It was. It was a huge thing.

He's a voice behind us. He's the voice behind these.

Yep. Mm.

Is the single time where the Optimus prime voice actor was not Peter Cullen and was not trying to sound like Peter Cohen.

And as Thor. Thor did, right? Yeah. As Hemsworth. Hemsworth was. Yep.

And he does a really good job. But the entire movie, I'm sitting there.

Thinking, yeah, but it's a prequel. Like, one's a prequel, and it leads up to how he becomes Prime.

Yes, correct.

So you can kind of see where his voice changes to become. When he hits puberty, and it does get a little deeper.

His transformation cog.

But that. I think that would be my only critique about that movie. It's. I think my mind is more blank.

It's not Peter Cohen.

No. No, it's not. And that was like. I like I like the rest. I really do like the origin story, how they.

How they teased it out, especially being a child of the 80s and knowing how Alpha Tron and all this other stuff. But the way they. They took it into a different narrative and saying that. That Megatron and Optimus were friends.

And I was like, okay, I'm gonna just sit here and just watch this.

It is. It's kind of like, all right, we're gonna draw an analogy. And I can get too deep yet to get too biblical.

We got a couple pastors on here, you know, Pharaoh, Pharaoh and Moses. Right. Like, you know, we had the Pharaoh, Moses being friends or brothers, and eventually they. They part ways, needless to say.

So you could kind of see that in one, them being on the same team.

And then there's that divide and split, and then you have the war later on, the prequel, you know, and talk about the faces behind prequel, what makes them who they are. There's something to be said about. We're gonna eventually talk, you know, do some prequels and. And systemic ecology as well. But you have the.

The main story is trying to sell story. You're trying to sell toys. Then you have a cartoon. Then you have comics. You're like, we gotta build the world. We gotta world build this a little bit.

Not just a truck that turns into a robot or a robot that turns into a gun or starship or airplane. But. But what's the story behind this. This mythology behind it? I think the Marvel comics did that, the cartoon, those things.

So I. I think that's important to fill out these. These. These things. So, yeah, like, they are also the.

Faces behind each other, you think? Good versus evil, white and black, yin and yang. Megatron and Optimus prime are. Are there. They're right there. They are the same.

They are two sides of a coin.

And they.

Yes.

They bounce off of each other really well.

Yes.

Yep.

Kind of going into a little bit. You know, I'm. I'm curious for you.

In terms of talking about Optimus prime as a face behind the other Autobots, what are some, like, leadership qualities or character virtues or flaws that he has that we could look up to or have a cautionary tale for? In terms of how is Optimus prime kind of lift up there as one of the iconic faces behind what makes a hero?

One of the. One of the main qualities of Optimus is that he would never ask his comrades to do anything he will not be willing to do himself. He's.

He is willing to sacrifice himself, which he has done numerous times. Yeah, throughout. Throughout this. Just this universe. So. So not only does he lead by example, but he's. He inspires the hope of.

Even though it might be down, having Optimus coming to the rescue, because it really, he really is the one everyone looks up to because of. Not only because he's the leader, but he inspires the sense of hope.

Like, even if we are down and out, if optimists say we can do it, then we can and we will do it. And so it's. It's an emotional and moral tug that he has that he's able to do. But. But as. As TJ pointed out though, Megatron is on the flip, though.

Like, Megatron invokes fear and, and envy because that's. That's what Starscream comes in at.

Yeah, rivals got some heated rivals, But.

But even, Even with Megatron and Star, Starscream will never try Megatron for real. Like, he would complain about. He should be the leader. He should be in, but he would never try him because, you know, Megatron is.

Is just as powerful as Optimus. And even though Optimus provides the hope and Megatron does the fear, that's how they. That's.

That's the standpoint that they leave from, is you have one who does fear, another one has hope. And you can see it in how. Because we watching Gen1, I can see how they always. The Decepticons always running because they lose.

It's always running back. Retreat. Retreat.

So here's the thing. And I had, I had to look it up to see. But here's the thing.

As a kid, you know, you'd be like, like, well, why are the Decepticons flying and Autobots can't fly. They all. If they all Cybertronian and they're robots.

So true.

Because I was like, that don't make any sense. It's.

It's that. It's a thing that's consistent. That is. That is so consistent.

The flying versus on the road, being landlocked and then those.

Yeah, yeah, they even do it in Transformers 1.

They do.

They do. Right then no one mentions it, but it's there. And Sentinel prime, guess what? You can fly. The clues are there if you know to look.

But even in War of War for Cybertron, one of my favorite Transformers experiences is Transformers the War for Cybertron. It's like a video game third person shooter where you can play as Autobots and Decepticons through the story of like the Transformers Civil War door.

Nice.

It rocks. I hate playing the Autobot half of that game because you can't fly.

Yeah.

You have this big, awesome world of Cybertron to fly around, and you can't fly with any of the Autobots. Except I do. I think they did let Ratchet become, like, a rescue helicopter in that game.

But it was funny that even Megatron, who wasn't a F1 fighter, I think that's what there was a model Raptor, could fly. And I'm like, he's a gun. Like, how is he gonna fly?

I know.

And Optimus can't fly. I'm like, this. That's just horrible.

I know. Yeah, it's messed up. It's messed up.

But.

Well, we're circling back around like. Like Optimus prime, like, talking about him being the player coach.

Like, he's the coach in the locker room who's going to talk up your team and inspire you with that voice, and, you know, he's going to get you all fired up and ready to go. But as Kino said, he's. He'll go in the game, too. Like, he's not just a locker room coach. Yell at you. Go out there and play hard.

I'm gonna stand back here on the sidelines. He's in the game playing and usually putting himself on the front line. So I think that's. We look up to him, and I.

And I think the other Autobots look up to him and take that lead from him. Him literally take take the lead.

He.

Take the lead from him. He. And so if you look at the Autobots, you know. Yeah. Again, would you rather fly or drive fast? I kind of would like to fly.

It was so. He was so impactful that when he was killed off in the movie, the TV show didn't feel right. Like, even though. Gosh, Prime, Rodimus prime, like.

Like, you wanted to love him.

Yeah, you did.

But it's like he thought optimist. He is not optimist.

He's cool.

Yeah. It's like you. You, like, you loved him, but it's like, this ain't. This ain't it.

Well, there's a question on here we're talking about, like, how is the story different without them in the story, you know? And I think, you know, term the faces behind us. What do we be like without people that influence us in our story? But. Yeah, how. How much.

How might the. The Autobot story be different without Optimus Prime? It'd be completely different.

I'll tell you how. I'll tell you exactly how it'd be different. There wouldn't be any Problems, because Bumblebee would solve them all.

Oh.

If Optimus wasn't there to be like, calm down, B. There wouldn't be any Decepticons.

You have to. You have to have a balance. Okay, you do have to have a balance. They have to have balance. You can't go to the extreme.

Even.

Even doing good things on the extreme is not good for the body in of itself. So there has to be about. That's why. That's why Optimus is there to listen this. I know we want to get him, but we can't do it right now. Okay.

Yeah, because he's so humane too. But he's the perfect example of what a leader should be. He's not. You can't lead from the back.

Agree.

Optimus is going to go out there and show you how it's done and expect you to be like him. And when you fail, that's going to be okay with him, because he knows.

You can do better.

He's perfect. He's perfect.

Megatron. All right, talk about him in terms of leadership.

We talked about the quote I had for problems prime was, you know, freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

And then Megatron, his famous quote, you pull it up and it's like, peace through tyranny, you know, Boy, if that's not, you know, relevant in today's age and world politics and people trying. Trying to push their. Their way around.

But in terms of Megatron, you know, what is it about him where he's a leader that's opposite or maybe similar to almost Right. Is there a cautionary tale here? Is there a way to talk about his leadership? That a nugget that we could emulate?

Or would it be like, hey, we need to be pretty clear on this with. In terms of who you're choosing, Autobots or Decepticons? I mean, it's in the name Decepticons. Yeah, but. But Keena, what do you think?

What about Megatron? What. What is it about this guy?

So. So Megatron is a. I feel sad for him. You know, coming from the pastoral care.

I hear you.

Where's the anger coming from? Like, like, like, why do you have to be so forceful and cruel? Well, it depends on which one you're talking about. Because. Because the Gen1, he was.

When he. When he encountered crime was Unicron in the movies.

Yeah, that.

That made him into Galvatron. I hated that.

There's.

I hated that. Oh, my gosh. I hated that transition.

I was like, this does not make sense either but anyway, going back to Megatron's attributes as a leader, that, that fear. But he, he had plans. He always had a plan.

He always had some type of answers to, to, to vex the Autobots, but, but it was never enough because one Starscream was always second guessing and trying to vibe for his, his seat. And then when he had, when he had the opportunity to lead, he sucked because no one really listened to him. And he, he created his own.

What was those bots that he created? He, it's, it's. He created his own bots. I can't remember. They. They formed into their own big giant thing. I can't. Can't remember. It was, it was bad.

But, but, but Megatron and Optimus are the balance that was needed in this series because, because and, and neither one. No one will fight. Well, well, everybody tried to fight Optimus, but, but Megatron was like, no, he is mine.

And, and you are not going to stand in my way of getting to this guy who has been at the bane of my existence since day one. If you, but if you include the movie T1, then that's different because I'm like, that's, that was the other thing. I'm like, they friends?

I don't, I don't know if.

I don't know. I think it works.

Really? Friends? I mean, the storyline works. Yes, but it was, it was a lot of.

Because, because me as a child growing up, you hated the Decepticons because they were all. But you rooted for them because you had a boom box, you had flying jets, he had a huge gun. Like, like those were cool.

But, but because Joe hero was the Autobots, you like, I can't get down with them. And then, and then here comes this, this movie, the retelling of this other origin. They being friends. I'm like, oh, oh, so they friends now?

Okay.

I don't, I don't know.

I mean, I mean again, it works, but it's just an adjustment for, for someone like me who just grew up watching cartoons and knowing what the history is like. Okay, so y', all, this is where we're going. Okay.

That make you more sad or kind of grieve that they're. They're broken relationship or do you see a time when they could reconcile and become brothers again, friends again?

You know, in terms of coming back around?

They could, but Megatron needs a lot of therapy.

Yeah.

Anger issues. And he's very envious of Optimus. Like I, I don't understand because he. You're a gun and like, your gun can shoot everybody.

And you could become a cannon too. That's. That was interesting. Like, you could become a gun, a handgun, and you can become a cannon.

I'm like, dude, like, you the best thing that's out there. Yeah, but. But his. His envy of the camaraderie, because that's.

I think that's the other thing that, that Megatron hated was the camaraderie that the Autobots had to fight for each other and not against each other. I think that was the other thing.

Yeah, it.

It works for me. T1, I think exemplifies how Megatron and Optimus are similar.

Because if, you know the things we said about Optimus, Megatron's doing a lot of the same things when they're going out there. Megatron's out front.

Mm.

Megatron's out front. He's getting active. He's in the business for very different reasons.

But they have the same style because they are similar, because they are two sides of that same coin.

Mm.

Right. Megatron has to be out there to prove that he's still the strongest Decepticon.

If he's not out there, then you get Starscream trying to cook his plans up.

You'll get.

All of them. Every Decepticon will try to take their shot at power at some point.

Except for like, sound waves.

Sound waves pretty chill until Starscream gets to him.

Well, that's interesting because they're on Earth.

It's Shockwave. It's Shockwave loyalty. So that's the sound waves. Was it. Was Shockwave very loyal?

I'm sorry, but no. Like in the Earth. They're on Earth for a specific reason in terms of crashing here and being here, laying dormant and come up.

But there's also a limited resource, right, with their. With their planet, with what they. What fuels them. So there's this quest. Not. Yeah, Energon. Like there's. There's not only.

How do you pull together as a team and survive together as a community and. And build up one another, but there's this quest for power, but also a limited resource, which I think, you know, here we are, you know, in our.

In our. And that limited resource of whatever. Oil, money, food, you know, othering the other person.

Those kinds of things that we do in our world to kind of get in our own teens and try to take over a lord over or. Or as. As use tyranny or as Kino said, fear and still fear so that you can have that limit resource.

There are two different ways of Going after a limited resource. And I always loved it. How ominous. Prime, even though he's huge, he always looks down.

He can look at humans as like, insects just in his way, but he sees them as a sentient being with that has inherent value and dignity, and he's going to respect that. And so he protects that. And the Autobots follow suit and. And see that as well. Whereas Megatron is. Is hunting down the.

You know, a limited resource, wants to take over in tyranny and peace through control. All that stuff, I think, is all those, like, political factions, ideas, ideologies within these fandoms. I think it fun.

They're toys, they're robots, man. It's. It's.

It's easy to geek out on this stuff, but then the subtext and the story, I think the lore is there and we're talking about the face behind us or what we're going to model or what characteristics going to take on ourselves.

Like, either one of you, like, is there either between the two of these, is there something that you don't want to be or something you want to take on for yourself that is a model for you as. As you. You go through your life and leadership?

Yeah, I don't want to be so lost that I feel like I have to prove myself to my team, like Megatron constantly. I don't want to be afraid to prove yourself that if I'm not, you know, consistently being the best, that people are gonna try and replace me.

You know, there's not a single thing about Optimus that I would not like to be. You know, if I woke up and I was like 20ft tall, that probably suck, but it'd be pretty sweet if.

I could turn into a truck. About height. Pretty cool.

But really, the. I don't think there is a better role model than Optimus Prime.

I just put this together. He's a truck. What a. Trucks do. They carry things. They pull their weight. Great. Here is Optimus prime as a truck who helps carry the. The virtue and.

But also carry. Carry things, pull things. What do trucks do? They carry and pull. That's cool. I did put that together till now. He does.

It's pretty awesome. That is awesome.

Fire ax. So cool.

That was. That was so Kino.

What are you going to take away from these two? Either cautionary tale that you don't want to be or. Or take off on in your leadership.

So the cautionary tale adding to what TJ said is looking at Megatron and realizing this is.

This is the true example of what happens when pain goes unhealed and power goes unchecked, like, like, remember now, now Megatron really was trying to do justice. He was just seeking justice, but it slowly turned into domination.

And he's trying to rule over everything, but ends up ruling over ruins, which also impacted his own soul. Soul, soul. Which tells. Speaks a lot about trying to prove your worth by your actions when if you just stand in your own sentient being.

I wouldn't say humanity, but he's not human as, as who he is, he wouldn't have no issues. But because he has so much pain and, and not. He's also fearful that they could rise up against him like that.

There is that fear that they could at some point come again. That's why he always was going after Starscream just to show everybody else, don't try me. Like, literally.

Even though, like Starscream was trying to be. No, he. All Megatron had to prove, like, listen, I don't do that because every time he tried just, oh, gosh, he was just so horrible.

But, but, but, yeah, so, but with Optimus again, just, just piggybacking on what TJ was saying, like, he is a. The model. Role model for leadership. And what you will want anyone to be willing to do is to stand alongside of you, you in a battle.

Not behind you, telling you what to do, but on side of you. And if you were to fail, he's not making you feel bad, you fail. He's saying, get up because I know you can do better.

And so even when the battle is lost, you still hold your dignity and you held on to your values. So it never cost him who he was.

So I love that. Yeah, that's really good. I. What a hard way to live that. You're always scared that someone's going to take you out so they can take your position.

You know, I think there's a lot of, in our own political world, a lot of fear that if they don't do certain things that they're going to be taking out, someone's going to replace them, rather than serving the other, being beside the other, listening to the other and common life together. I think, what a hard way. Hard way to be. I like that too. And I like this idea of artist's prime leading by example.

You know, I hope that I wouldn't ask my parishioners or my staff to do anything that I wouldn't be willing to do myself. So I'll take that to heart just to.

And, and you know, both of us have, have all three of us have people behind us that showed us how to be leaders and mentor their faces behind us. And there are also some cautionary tales, too. There may be out there. Like, nope, I'm not going to be that. I can definitely think of.

Of some people out there. I'm like, no, I'm not going to be that way in my leadership. Don't want to do that. And I'm gonna go a different, different, different route.

So super fun. I. I think these two, along with all the Autobots, their lore, Decepticons, Cons, all go hand in hand.

I think it's a great IP to look at kind of the faces behind why they do what they do and how they lead the way they lead. And. And we can take some. Some lessons from that. Super, super good. I appreciate it.

Also, we got a shout out before we're. Before you start to wrap up, Optimus prime has a Kid's Choice Award. Like, the character Optimus prime won the Nickelodeon's Kids Choice Award award.

Like. Like three years ago.

Oh, okay.

Three years ago.

Like, three.

Yeah.

Wait, wait, which. Which one? Which Optimus?

I don't remember.

Oh, okay.

Because probably the Michael Bay. Optimus.

Okay, okay. But still, that's. If I know that it.

That's good. That's good.

It was a lifetime achievement award.

Are you serious?

That's good. See, there you go.

Prime lifetime achievement.

You learned it here first, folks. Yeah, and. And it's been around. It's one of these. Ips have been around a long time. And who do you want kids to look up to?

Kids choice War as a lifetime. Like, who do you want to emulate? I'm glad Megatron didn't win it. You know, Optimus prime is. Is. Yeah, you should do it.

Good.

I. I love that. Well, let's wrap this thing up, folks. Let me. Let me share. Our extra question is going to be if.

If your three hosts here could transform into any vehicle, what would it be? So I can't wait to hear what Kino is going to transform into or tj.

I got my idea in my head, but you're going to have to hop over and become a member and subscribe and. And hop on fourth while do those. And. And you'll be able to hear the bonus Con content and how we're going to answer that.

If you really want to know what Kino is dreaming about as he falls asleep watching cartoons to Transformers, he's dreaming of him Transforming into something. So recommendations? What we guys recommend something from this IP or others.

So. So listen, I would recommend if you have. Have rewatch Transformers the movie. That is the name of the movie in 80s the movie because 86.

1986 animated. 86, yes.

It's just. If you have not watched it, watch it. If you have go re. Watch it. Because it's still. It's still a good movie. Even after almost 30 years. No, 40 years.

I take that back. Almost 40 years. Oh, Jesus.

Here we are.

Yeah.

20. 26.

Yeah, it's turned to 40.

40.

Wow. Yeah. So. So that. That would be my suggestion.

Love it. Love it. Tj, you got a recommendation?

It's a.

It's a really good movie. It'll get you in the door. You can form your own opinion. I think it's phenomenal.

It's got Thor and Scarlett Johansson. Am I right?

Yeah.

Scarlett Johansson plays Alita one.

Yeah.

We didn't talk about her much, but she's like Optimus's love interest sometimes, you know, Patriot left wing girl.

It.

She's cool. She's not arty.

No, she's cool. She's not. She's not just a Smurfette like that. The only female Smurf and all the things. But. But yeah, it's similar. Those 80s cartoons had a theme.

We gotta throw a girl in there. She's one of them. But she's emerged as a good two or three.

She's one of them.

Yep.

My recommendation is to. To go out there if you like comic books, like graphic novels. Grab the first volume of Transformers by Daniel Warren Johnson.

Mike Spicer on on Colors Volume 1, Robots in Disguise. Part of this Energon universe that Robert Kirkman of Walking Dead fame pulled together the GI Joe and the Transformers into one singular universe.

Void Rivals is another kind of offbeat, kind of off the beaten path sci fi story that brings the two worlds together. I It's a cool integrated universe that he pulled together over there on Image Comics.

So yeah, I'm a huge danger Daniel Warren Johnson fan and to see his work, artwork on the page, pretty dynamic art and a cool storyline that they can pour together. So check those out. Thanks y'. All. We appreciate you all listening, watching, hanging with us, geeking out with us.

If you have ideas, if you have thoughts, you things we missed, you're like, oh, you didn't bring up this chime in the contest, let us know. All right, geekologists, it's time to roll.