Join the lively crew of Systematic Geekology as they dive into the delightful fusion of humor, pop culture, and faith at Theology Beer Camp 2025 in St. Paul, Minnesota. In this spirited panel, hosts Will Rose, TJ Blackwell, and Leah Robinson chat with the insightful Rolf Jacobson and Kristy Whaley about how humor serves as a vital coping mechanism in our often heavy lives. They explore the idea that laughter can connect us, even in the most serious discussions of faith and existence. From dissecting the absurdities of life to the role of comedy in fostering community, the conversation flows like a fine ale—rich and refreshing. So, kick back and enjoy as they uncover how humor can illuminate the human experience and perhaps teach us a thing or two about ourselves along the way.

Will Rose, the self-proclaimed geekologist, pulls the audience into a lively discussion on humor at Theology Beer Camp 2025, where pop culture meets theological musings over a cold one. Joined by a stellar panel consisting of Ralph Jacobson, Kristy Whaley, Leah Robinson, and TJ Blackwell, the conversation flows as easily as the beer. They explore how humor serves as a lens through which to view the absurdities of life, faith, and pop culture. Will’s lighthearted anecdotes about being the class clown transition into deeper reflections on the nature of humor and its role in processing life’s challenges.

The panelists share their personal experiences, with Ralph highlighting how comedians use humor to reflect on societal issues, while Kristy discusses humor’s therapeutic potential in dealing with trauma. The conversation takes a turn as they contemplate the community-building aspect of humor, especially in settings like Theology Beer Camp. Leah adds her Southern flair, emphasizing how laughter can create connections among diverse groups, while TJ contributes with his youthful perspective on humor in today’s digital landscape. They dive into the importance of context, discussing how humor varies across cultures and generations, which adds a layer of complexity to their discourse.

The panelists also touch on the role of humor in sacred texts, suggesting that the Bible itself has elements of comedy that are often overlooked. With laughter echoing through the conversation, they explore how humor can disarm tension and foster understanding in serious discussions, ultimately reinforcing the idea that laughter is a vital aspect of the human experience. As the panel wraps up, they reflect on iconic examples of humor in pop culture, including the Rocky Horror Picture Show, which serves as a metaphor for liberation and self-expression. They emphasize that humor is not just about making people laugh; it’s a powerful tool for empathy and connection in a world that can often feel divided. With witty banter and thoughtful insights, the panel leaves the audience with a renewed appreciation for the role of humor in their lives, encouraging them to embrace laughter as a way to navigate the complexities of existence.

Takeaways:

1. The panel at Theology Beer Camp 2025 explored how humor can bridge gaps between faith and pop culture, showing that laughter is indeed a universal language.
2. TJ, Will, Leah, Rolf, and Kristy shared their personal experiences of finding humor in serious subjects, emphasizing that comedy can be a tool for coping with life's absurdities.
3. Rolf noted that both humor and theology engage with the incongruities of existence, highlighting the importance of humor in processing complex emotions and beliefs.
4. The discussion revealed how cultural context shapes our understanding of humor, pointing out that what's funny in one culture might not resonate in another, especially in theological discourse.

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Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Hello, friends. This is your friendly neighborhood geekologist, Will Rose.

So big thanks to Trip Fuller and Homebrew Christianity for allowing us to be a part of these conversations and discussions and even allowing us to help curate what happens on the pop culture stage, formerly known as geek stage. And when you're listening to this episode and you ask yourself, really, this kind of thing happens at Theology Beer Camp?

Yes.

I'm one of the hosts of Systematic Geekology and one of the curators of the Pop God Stage. We've done things like Harry Potter, we've talked about Tolkien, talked about the movie Sinners, and now we're going to talk about humor.

And what's the best thing about humor is really systematically thinking about it. That's gonna take the suck the humor out of the room. I can't wait to really dissect humor. Funny. Quick story.

I got notes sent home from school all the time when I was little saying laughs too much in class. And I would just go to my mom and say, I can't help it if my friends are funny. And I know good humor when I see it.

And I have some friends who are very funny, some of my favorite people humorous around.

And so we're gonna go down and kinda introduce ourselves and what we do, and then we're gonna ju discussion about humor and things that we find funny. So we'll just work down the line that way.

I'm Ralph Jacobson. I teach at Luther seminary here in St. Paul, Minnesota. And my band will be leading the music for the closing worship.

And the band's name is the Flesh Pots of Egypt, which is funny.

It is funny. I find that funny.

Hi, I'm Kristy Whaley. I am both a scholar because I teach theology in Florida and I mostly work with trauma and grief, which is not funny, hilarious.

So I'm really excited to not do that now.

Okay.

But I also have a podcast with Leah called Theology on the Rocks where we are really, really hilarious all of the time. So you should listen to that.

And super humble as well. And gorgeous.

So humble and beautiful.

And I mean, don't tell me.

You're amazing.

Don't tell me. It's a lot of this. So I'm Leah Robinson. I am on the podcast with Christy, Theology on the rocks. Please do listen.

And we drink and talk about theology. Wonder where we got that from. And I'm a professor of theology at Mercer University in Atlanta, Georgia. So I'm a Southerner.

I feel like one of the lone Southerners here. I'm what? Well, it's North Carolina. Where are you from?

North.

I also live in North Carolina, so I can't say anything. It is Southern. We love you.

Ironically.

Ironically. I live in Charlotte right now, but yeah, so I'm a professional inclusion.

And South.

South Dakota's in the North.

That's true.

That's some Yankee talk. And I do like humor, too. And it's an interesting thing with Christy and I is, you know, we are serious academics. We write books.

There's my bad theology book over there on the shelf. But we also like to have fun. And I think that's. It's that sort of in between of like, how do you be a serious academic?

I mean, I'm wearing a jacket, but how do you do that and also have a good time as well and have fun? Because what's the point if you're not doing that?

Yeah.

Yeah. Leah also will soon be one of the hosts on Systematic Geekology.

She will.

That's right.

She's with myself. I'm TJ Blackwell. I'm from South Carolina. The real Southern nerd on the whole. So I mostly do that with Will, Leah, a bunch of other people.

There are like 37 hosts of that.

Like 10, she says because she's jealous.

You'll be next, horribly.

Jealousy's not cute on you. But I also host the whole church podcast with Joshua Noel, so you may know him.

We do, you know, church unity, churches working together interdenominationally. I'm Pentecostal.

You're welcome here.

So that's pretty much it. I work in food service. Save the applause.

Thanks, tj. Thanks, tj. Yeah. So here at the Algae Beer Camp, yeah, we go really deep with big, big concepts of theology and philosophy, and we.

We gather together with beer, and we have deep conversations with friends. We reunite with folks. We.

There's a lot of things that happen at Theology Beer Camp over the years, but I will say one thing I have seen and experienced here is A lot of humor and a lot of laughter, too.

It brings me joy when we're up in the big room upstairs, and there's a really meaningful theological point being made that can bring a tear to your eye. And then the next moment to bring levity to the room, to disarm the room, to connect with others, is to find laughter and humor with one another.

And I hear a whole room just kind of roar with laughter, whether it's a silly skit or a joke or trying to be funny. And then it doesn't land too hard, but people laugh anyway. It's pretty great. So here we are. And so what is humor? What is it? Where is it found?

Biblically, theologically? What do we like about humor? Rolf wrote a book about it, and so run with it. What is funny?

Yeah, what's funny?

What is funny?

So I think the main thing about humor is it sees the world differently than non humor. Okay, so. And there's different types of humor, but. So how many of you ever used to watch, like, comics in cars or whatever that.

What's the Seinfeld thing? You get comedians in cars and getting coffee? Yeah, comedians getting coffee in cars. I don't know. But. So Seinfeld says to Norm MacDonald, who was.

It was his birthday yesterday, a blessed memory, he says, here's how comedians see the world is. And he said basically he wanted there to be a joke, but there's no joke in this. But it's about how they see the world. He goes, when you have.

When you want to bring your dry cleaning in, there's 4,000 dry cleaning options in New York City, but when you want to pick it up, there's only one. Now, he said, there's no joke there, but that's the kind of way that comedians see the world.

And I think the best example is Norm MacDonald's joke about the homeless guy. Okay. Which is not a funny topic, right? But he says, I saw a homeless guy with a dog.

And most people would look at it and think, man, I feel sorry for the homeless guy. But Norm goes, but I feel sorry for the dog. This is the longest walk ever. So. Right. But it's so good. But it's. It's.

But then you can get into the pathos of the situation, because, first of all, you've noticed the incongruity. So Reinhold Niebuhr said this. The intimate relationship between humor and faith is that both deal with the incongruities of our existence.

And so that's why I think theologies and humor are such Important conversation partners is because what are those incongruities? When somebody read a book I wrote with my brother about humor, they said, you, You. You like the word incongruity, don't you?

Well, Reinhold Niebuhr didn't. We thought that was a smart sentence.

I mean, it's a good. That's a good footnote, Reinhold Neighbor signed off on that.

Yeah, right.

I like. I like to think about the ways that humor can help us to process stuff.

Again, I write and deal in a lot of trauma and grief, and that's not easy to process.

And so when we start to talk about humor and the ways that it can help us think about life and all of this, Sartre says that life is absurd, and we have to kind of understand this absurdity.

But in doing that, if we're kind of pushing ourselves into the humorous, we can start to see the absurdity and ways to cope with stuff and ways to push back against things.

I was recently looking into the kind of ridicule protest movement that we see, especially in Portland right now, with the inflatable Halloween costumes and everything.

And the way that the frog.

Yeah, the frog and everything.

And there's actually like a really, really long history of ridicule protest in meeting the kind of violent oppressor with something so absurd that it would literally be disarming. Yeah, it's disarming. And it's. And it's. And it would be like the most obvious problem for them to then attack.

Like if they attack as they did the frog. Right.

They.

Pepper spray.

Yeah.

To be like, how in the world did you think that a frog was going to be a real threat to you? He was in a frog costume. And so that we can see what's going on here.

You know, humor can help us to see truth and what's going on in the world in ways that just trying to say, this is how it is. This is what's going on.

To see a frog as a threat really takes a leap of faith.

Oh, here we go. It's not gonna be a paint on.

Humor without dad jokes.

Solid dad joke.

Sorry, I apologize for that there, Lord.

In his defense, if a frog was my height, which is not a super high bar to clear, I would be terrified.

Yeah.

Pepper spray made it through the costume.

Yeah. The way those work, they sprayed it into the inflatable suits. You have a little vent usually in the butt. That's where your. All your air comes from.

And that officer leans right over.

Pepper spray.

Just the vent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's some deep. That's some deep mascot lore.

And do that. You're clearly not being threatened.

Right. Excuse me, sir, Can I see your air vent?

So. Right.

That's my pickup line.

That's a crazy cavity, sir. Found it, filled it.

So I. I think growing up where I did, by the way, if anyone can tell me what's happening in the Georgia game, I'm so excited.

I'm on that. I'm on that.

You're losing 78 to 3.

I'm feeling uncomfortable.

Very bad.

Feeling uncomfortable. Anyway, so growing up where I did, and some of you are from the south, there is a way we talk a lot about doom and gloom.

If you read the Gothic writers, Southern writers, you'll see that a lot. But there's also a point where there's some levity and some joking.

You see this a lot with, like, Mark Twain and those kind of writers where they realize just how sad things have gotten. And there's something about it where they won't let it sink that far down, and so they make a joke or they pop, you know, some sort of funny thing.

And. And so I think that was what it was with.

With my family as we get together, and we'd be like, oh, you know, Aunt so and so died, and we got to bring the casserole, and it's going to be at the church. But, man, she was a bitch. And of course. And then it was. And then we'd keep on going, right?

And I think that's the thing, is seeing humor not as something. It was affectionate, even though we called her a bad word. Like, to see humor as being something that brings us up.

And also, as Christy said, to read, even to bring it theological, to read the text and to not see it as sort of an absurd text. I'm Christian and irreverent, so it's not that you don't have to believe it, but, you know, Mary got knocked up by God.

I'm just gonna leave that there.

Thank you for that.

So. And we're just like, yeah, that's fine. Joseph's like, is it? You know, we had a question yesterday during the Hot Ones challenge.

I was like, whatever happened to Joseph? We're like, where did he go? Guess he's off a Monty Python somewhere.

Yeah. Yeah. So for me, I tend to be one of the younger people at beer camp. I just turned 14.

Take that beer away from him.

It's a great fake mustache.

So I just. Growing up, I've been irony poisoned my whole life. Everything. You can't Take anything seriously. That's just the way it is. I am 26 officially.

Thank you, TJ. I was worried there for a second.

And can we see your id?

Can we see your id, though? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm nervous now.

Whoever wants it can come and take it from my cold, dead hand. I earned my spot at the beer line, but for me, humor is always what we go to, regardless. Everything has to be funny in some way.

I've never been alive at a point where 911 was something. Reverent. Irreverent. No. Okay, reverent.

It was always irreverent to me because by the time I was old enough to be able to conceptualize what 911 really was, it was already a joke to people my age. So to me, it's mostly deflection, but it is also the only way anyone can really speak, especially younger than me.

I don't know if you guys know anyone younger than me. Those kids are bad. Those kids are messed up. Nothing ever gets a moment of respect.

Well, let's build on that a little bit. Like the 911 thing, you wouldn't think, yeah, that's not funny.

But in terms of how we process pain and trauma and using humor to help us process it, whether it's Monty Python, Quest for the Holy Grail, or we'll talk about Rocky Horror Picture show here in a minute. But, like, what? What is it? Those things that we. Traumatic events or events that are on the surface or deep levels aren't, Aren't funny.

And yet to find humor in it or to help disarm it, what is. What is about the human nature or the human condition that goes to humor?

For a little backstory, I'm from, you know, Spartanburg, Greenville, South Carolina. We're pretty redneck place. Big NASCAR guys, if you're familiar with NASCAR history, the last driver to die in a race was Dale Earnhardt.

2001, February 21st. Someday in February that year, my little sister was born that June. Her middle name is Dale.

Whoa.

So as a little backstory, she loves it, for the record.

But my favorite joke I've ever heard about the Orange man was that I'd love to support him, but he wants to build that wall, and I can't vote for that, because walls is what killed.

Killing it, A.J.

Whatever it takes.

Whatever it takes.

Yeah.

Ralph, Thoughts on absurdity or go for it.

I mean, I do think, too, there is a Sorry. I do think that there is this idea.

Christy and I lived in Scotland for a long time, and in Glasgow, which is a very working class city, they have a phrase called digi. And basically it's when you start bragging about something for a certain amount of time. Did I. They'll be like, did you die?

And it's basically saying, get off your high horse, essentially. And I think that's the same in. In the south as well. Is. I think it's. It's a very.

I'm not saying all humor comes from the working class, but I do think there is something to be said for people who struggle in general and needing to find levity in the midst of sadness or struggle, and that it could be music, it could be humor, it could be church.

But I think when we look especially across the States and we look at certain regions that act or behave in certain ways, it kind of makes sense because it feels like there's some sort of escape that I think humor is really a part of.

So broadly speaking, Peter Berger says there are three types of humor. This is very simplified, oversimplifying to the extreme. The two. The two most common forms are either wit or satire. And so when you're talking about.

What did you call in Portland?

Oh, the frog.

Yeah. What's that called?

Oh, yeah, it's a ridicule. Protest.

Right. So whether you call it ridicule or satire or parody or sarcasm, that's one of the forms of humor which is completely different than.

Although it's like a Venn diagram, it can cross over than the basic form, which is wit. So, like. And the wit has different forms. I think one of the most basic, crudest forms is the pun, right.

Or the dad joke, which is what I made earlier, right. About leap of faith. But I think that. And both of those are morally neutral, so your complete jerk or a very holy person can.

Can use either one of them. It really depends on the use, which is why. But I do think that especially the. The second type, satire or ridicule. My brother used to.

My brother and I used to teach at a tennis camp, and Carl, that was his name, he would say to the campers, you've heard of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, which of course they hadn't. Right? You know, death, famine, disease and warfare. I am the fifth rider. Ridicule, right? Ridicule can be very. I mean, positive, like.

So Mel Brooks, right? The great Jewish movie producer. I love what he says. He says his whole career was really about making fun of Hitler and.

But he couldn't get anybody to make the producers because can you make fun of 9 11. Can you make fun. It's like when Louis CK started. It's when Louis CK started his Saturday Night Live monologue at the start about child abuse.

Right, right. Have you seen it? And at the end, he goes, well, we got through that, barely. But there's. Mel Brooks said this.

He goes, if you get on a soapbox with Hitler, you're gonna lose. But if you can make fun of him, if you can make people laugh at him, you win. The only weapon I've got is comedy. And so I really think that that's.

Maybe that's why what you're saying is for the powerless. It's such a powerful coping mechanism, but also a way to tell the truth.

It makes sense why they're going after, like, Donald Trump has all of the power or whatever at his disposal, but who is he going after? The comedians, because they're hurting his feelings.

But it works. But just to be fair, it works the opposite way, too.

Which is the Babylon Bee, which is a center right Christian parody site, got deplatformed from social media because they're like, what you're saying is not true. And they're like, it's sarcasm.

Yeah.

That's the whole point of the website.

Of course it's not true. The truth is in the joke. And they're like, yeah, we don't care. What you're saying is not true.

The Onion is. Is in the midst of trying to emphasize that their ability to have freedom of speech is vital. The Onion is like an incredibly.

Somehow an incredibly important piece of news at this point, because we have to have these kinds of satire.

I mean, honestly, if we think about Monty Python, there is a whole bunch in all of the movies going on with pointing out weird, absurd things that we just kind of accept in life.

And like the bit where King Arthur meets the peasants and they're like, cleaning up the rocks or whatever, and they're like, well, I didn't elect you. And it brings up, what do we believe about our government? And how do we understand who gets a say in the powerful?

And are these two peasants digging up rocks really gonna listen to King Arthur when they have absolutely no reason? Like, and they let you pull the sword, the lady in a lake. And you were like, yeah, this.

What?

Like, no, you can't. You can't tell me that this means you're in charge of me. That's ridiculous.

You know, all together now. We're all individuals.

Yeah.

And.

And I Think humor. You know, you bring up points like what. How far is too far when it comes to humor? Were you pushing.

There's council culture is what there's tastes when it comes to humor too similar to food. Like, yeah, you, I, I hate baked beans.

But here.

Who had baked beans last night?

Nobody.

Yay.

You're with me.

Yeah, yeah. There's an option of baked beans. But like, there's things that we really love and things, you know, and there's common ground with what people like.

But I think humor is like, oh, I love that movie. Will Ferrell is my favorite comedy of all time. It's like, I can't stand him. I love Con o', Brien, but I don't.

So there are tastes when it comes to that. But then the common ground of humor, there's definitely things that we laugh at and pull together.

When you hear humor and laugh with someone, it is a solidarity that's there in the midst of that that I think is really, really important in a heavy, heavy ass world. Comedy brings levity and helps us cope and get through it.

Yeah.

I think that even goes back to if you know about the Jester historically would typically be the only person in a court who was allowed to kind.

Of just say whatever, take on the, on the ruler. Right.

Yeah.

Because even the kings would realize, like, okay, I need something to do. At least laugh at this guy. Yeah, he's a carmdial.

I think about Shakespeare, so. Because my PhD is in literature and theology. Nerd.

Somehow I got a Shakespeare quote loaded, but go ahead.

Shakespeare is hilarious. We just, we don't know his language well. So, like, you're looking at it. But he's got all sorts of jokes.

Mostly making fun of the church and the government because he hated both of them. I mean, we don't know a lot about him.

Like, like genuinely, we're just reading things into the plays, but there's a lot of taking down, calling them, you know, all sorts of names through giving them certain characteristics. And then he has this amazing. My favorite Shakespeare sonnet is. I think it's 138 and it's my mistress's eyes are nothing like the sun.

And he's just making fun of romance poetry the whole time. And he's like, her breath reeks. Like, she does not smell like perfume. She. He says her hair is wires. And like, I mean, it's just.

But it's like this really funny and kind of beautiful because he's like, I love her as a real person instead of this weird Cloud in the sky that romance poetry portrays.

I tend to think of Shakespeare as having done the same thing as Stephen King, which, if you're unaware, he's a time traveler. He just came back with all of his favorite books and published them himself.

Shakespeare or Stephen King is a time travel.

Are they the same person? Is that what they might be? Okay.

I don't know. It was a bit so good he had to do it twice.

I did have to prove in the break room that I didn't think dragons were real. So if you think we're not, we're just doing this for a bit, it's not.

You have it pulled up.

Well, it's my favorite Shakespeare comedy.

So the third type of humor is whatever Berger calls it, I call it proper comedy, which is like the comedies of Shakespeare, which asserts that there is a happy ending and not that kind of happy ending for the dirty minded among you. I didn't mean it. But so in. In Twelfth Night Fest is the name of the. Of the fool. And he says, I wear not motley in my brain.

And the point is, whether it's the Greek chorus or the Shakespearean fool, they're the only ones that see the truth and tell it, and no one believes them. And so he wears motley, but he goes, but not in my brain. That is what I say is actually true, is the point.

And that's what I love about the Shakespeare. The two things I like about the Shakespearean comedies are especially the fool, because they see the truth and say it.

And the fact that then in pure comedy, again, so Burger says he calls it the carnival, but it's the final stage in the progression of the comic from a brief interruption. So that's wit. A brief interruption, right? Which is usually rude, huh?

Which is usually rude.

Well, it doesn't have to be, but I get what you're saying. But it's like. So here's the interruption joke, right? The interruption joke is first thing, man.

The first thing I'm gonna do when I get home is whip rip off my wife's underwear because it's really riding up and cutting the circulation off, right? So that's just a quick interruption in the. And it's not. It's not true. I would be banned. But so. So if comedy starts as a brief interruption.

The.

So it's a brief interruption of the social order. The full blown interruption of the social order. To assert that there's actually a purpose to the universe.

And that purpose is hope giving is the purpose of pure comedy. Which is why Buechner then says the gospel itself is comedy, tragedy and he calls it fairy tale. But what he means is proper comedy. I like it.

You guys know that book I hate, Buechner's book, the Gospel. Is that the subtitle or is that the title? The Gospel as Comedy, Tragedy and Fairy Tale.

I hated the book the first, like three times I read it, but then I understood it finally.

You just had to keep going back.

I did.

I don't know that that is a good advertisement for that. You just beat yourself into liking.

Well, did you take Long Gospel? Not with me. The class. Yeah. So I used to teach a course.

I taught a course called Long Gospel and my co teacher always said, no, we gotta include that book.

Love it. Hey, real like quick diversion. We're gonna talk about.

I would really go into Rocky Horror Pictures show here in a minute, but I want to pop up and hear from you all. Pop off. Favorite comedy, comedy, sketch, comedian, movie.

And just I want to hear kind of a litany of things that, like, I'm going to start Key and Peele, like all time, like.

Great.

All right.

Yeah, go. What's that?

Was that Big Lebowski, right? Classic.

Was that Schitt's Creek Modern?

Classic.

Was that Bill Maher? Dave Chappelle?

All right.

What's that? I think you should leave. We were watching that earlier in our Airbnb. Like, not too. What's that?

Spinal Tattoo, Taylor Thomas.

Kids in the Hall. I'm gonna squish you with my little fingers right now. Your head's being squished right now. Other others. What's that? Oh, Williams, come on.

Yeah.

Borat, George Carlin. What'd you say?

No.

Amen, brother. Yeah. There you go. Second City. Yeah, Improv. Good. Good.

Yeah.

I've not heard starting out live yet.

Who?

Anybody?

She did.

Oh, you said it. Good. That's my appointment. Television. I love sketch comedy. Improv. I love it. I I depending on what's going on.

Mitch Edberga, taskmaster.

Is. Yeah, taskmaster.

Yes.

Okay.

Christine. I strive to be absolutely fabulous.

How about Carol Burnett? Anybody? Carol Burnett?

Bur some old school.

Old school.

Parks and Recreation. Love it. Beautiful.

Yes.

Parks and Rec is Matt for ministry. Okay. I want that book from you. Caring loudly. Anything.

Doc Martin. Any Doc Martin fans in the crowd?

What's that?

Don't mention the war.

Leah, what's the one that's filmed in Glasgow with the old men? The crash. The old men. It's like Still Game. Still game? Yeah. Still game is Is Okay.

It hasn't made it.

It's on Netflix. You can watch it. You should use subtitles though, because it's proper Glaswegian.

Laney, who said that? Yes.

Any. Any. Letter Kenny fans.

Yeah, Letter Kenny.

Letter Kenny. Oh, what?

But I do think the Brits are good at like the theology and comedy thing because you get shows like if you've seen Father Ted or Rev or the Vicar of Dipley or like. Yeah, right.

They do.

They are even. And they make fun of. But then it doesn't hurt. You know, there's some balance there, but we just don't touch it in the States.

But they figured out how to do it. I mean, these are classic. Father Ted is classic.

I'm writing it down. Father ted.

It's fantastic. Mr. Bean, come on.

Yes.

Family Guy. Severely underrated. Oh yeah, overheated.

No one mentioned the Simpsons.

I was gonna say South Park. Simpson.

Nobody mentioned South Park.

I'm a big Always Sunny fan.

Caddy Shack.

Caddy Shack.

There you go.

There you go.

4240 Bob's Burgers.

Talladega Knights Community.

Pretty funny.

Talladega Night. I do like a good stone comedy too.

I like super Red Fun.

No Harold Kumar, White Castle. It's the only Carol and Kumar go.

To White Castle is the only reason I've been to White Castle.

I didn't know what White Castle was cuz it was Crys Crystal.

I eat a crystal.

Same concept. Little burgers that make your stomach hurt.

Yeah, and. And that's just to prove a point. Like, we heard we could do this all day, you know, and take a resource and write down things. Like there's people.

Like getting people names of books and resources, theological things. But in terms of comedy and movies. And that's what we do at Systemic Ecology.

We have recommendations at the end of the podcast because, like, I geek out lots of things, but there's always something I'm learning about. Like, I did not know Father Ted, but I've heard that a few times and I can't wait to pull it up and see what's going on.

Oh, I was going to say Mary, Mother of Christ. Very funny.

Okay.

The actual.

No, the actual.

The actual mother of Christ. She was a riot. Well, I mean, let's also be honest. Jesus was called a drunkard and glutton for reasons. Okay, well, let's keep going.

I just want to point out, by the way, this sense of a platypus. So hilarious.

There's that just the idea of being the son of God and your mom runs out of wine and she finds you and she's like, please, please.

She's like, jesus, that was a miracle, right? It was like.

It was like all these sick people and people. It was like a Monty Python skit. And it was like, well, we can't get drunk. And he's like, we're out of wine.

And then he's like, let me give you some incredible wine. And they were like, man, I'm not mad about it. They do. They're like, why didn't we drink this first? Well, it didn't exist five seconds ago. So.

Yeah.

So let's shift a little bit to, if you don't mind Rocky Horror Picture Show. Like, we are in spooky season. You know, it's the 50th anniversary.

What is it about this that I'm going to let you run with it in terms of the integration of the work that you do, but also, as.

Before, before, you do that. Okay. Because this will derail it if I have to wait.

Okay.

Okay. All right. How many of you ever have ever seen Sam Kinison's bet about why Jesus never got married? I think so, maybe. But. Well, the bit is. Which is.

So where have you been all weekend, Savior? Have you been up with those disciples of yours? Well, I've been dead. Oh, sure, right.

The dead excuse. Colin, dead.

Yeah. But. So the point is, he could. He couldn't get married because who's going to believe he was dead for the weekend when he was gone coming back.

Also, anyway, not the fact that he hung out with 12 guys all the time.

All right, so go ahead.

Back to.

Back to Rocky Horror. Yeah. So Rocky Horror Picture show is a really strange little movie.

I saw it on a midnight showing on a Friday in Atlanta, Georgia, and my little Southern Baptist heart exploded. There was the most beautiful man I've ever seen in my life in high heels and a corset, dancing across the stage.

Because if you don't know the midnight showings, they dress up and they, like, perform, and it's.

It's a liturgical experience.

It really, really well.

And it. And that was what got us thinking about it in theology.

I want to write a chapter on it, I think, because there is this idea, like, when you go there, it does feel like church, like people are. There's. Especially if you do the callbacks and stuff. Like, if, you know, Brad, Janet, Slut. Right.

Everyone's screaming back at the screen, and it's like a call. It's a call and response, basically. And, yeah, you said it, we didn't. It's fine.

That's the Thing, you know, and you have, you have costumes, everybody dresses up. Like there's performances you do, you're singing songs.

And the emotion that I felt in that place, it just felt like for 90 minutes we were able to be someone else, but in a pure, pure way. Like you can say Halloween or whatever, blah, blah. Yeah, cosplay.

But I feel like it was akin to cosplay for people who are big into the fandoms is that, that's what it felt like. You were somebody else for a little bit and you could escape and you could be, you could talk about sex a lot. And I was in Atlanta, Georgia.

Like you could talk about sex and you could be irreverent. But then there was also some real thoughts about what does it mean to be an alien? Like, what does it mean for people to think you don't belong?

What does creation mean? Like, there's all these sort of themes within it now. At the time I was just drinking wine and like dancing around with a push up bra.

But you know, you, you get there eventually.

Well, I mean it's, it's like deeply connected to Frankenstein, which like obviously has an incredible amount to say about the like human arrogance and the kind of absurd things that we do to try to be God. I mean, creating a monster is absurd. And, and then the monster in, we get Rocky Horror. The monster turns out to be absurd.

Like Rocky is very handsome, but very stupid.

Real dumb.

And I don't know that he was going for brains on this one.

No.

And so like it. There's a whole bunch of different ideas and themes that are being played with and talked about that are really, really serious.

And simultaneously we can throw toilet paper and laugh and do the time warp and all of that. Like, you know.

And I think too, seeing Tim Curry, I was with a guy who was self proclaimed, very straight and we both were just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean he's fantastic in that film.

He's fantastic in everything.

He is truly. And, but I do think it's one of those things where it represented something. This is really, I mean you can theologize anything.

But I think what you saw was a release for these kids that had grown up really conservative for just that little window of a minute. You got to be really, really bad.

It felt like it's like you get a free pass to express yourself.

Yes.

Unheard of.

Great.

And then you leave and you're like, oh God, I have to wait another month to be able to have fun again. Like, and it's not like we Lived in a bubble or anything?

Well, we did, sort of, but it felt like it was a get out of jail free pass where we could scream slut at the top of our lungs at Susan Sarandon.

So you say it's like permission giving. I think that's what.

Yeah, yeah.

It's liberating. It's liberating.

Sure, it's liberating.

Yet you go to a comedy show and you're with other people laughing at the same things, or maybe, maybe not. But there's something to that, that solidarity that comes with it, with humor.

There's a unifying element. There's a liberating element. And I think too, because I keep.

I've been just obsessively enjoying all of the liberation panel yesterday and the sinners panel this morning, and the kind of idea we need to be able to hear from voices of the others and. And center them. And like, what better way to do that than to have just a massive, very other people. They're aliens, they're transvestites.

And they're, you know, dancing around. They're sweet transvestites. I mean, it's just like opening, like you don't have any more boundaries. It's like, okay, yeah.

And it's a safe space to like. I remember going in Glasgow, which is a real hard Scottish city. Like, that's.

It's.

If you know it. And there were guys dressed up in corsets that I knew were gonna go on the building site the next day.

Yeah.

Like, there was no question.

I went and they were gonna hard hat up.

And I was like, hell, yeah. But for that minute they were able to. And no one, you should see these guys. No one told them to do jack.

Like, they did it because they wanted to do it. And they were able to do it. Like, it was how freezing.

Yeah. And it's especially.

Glasgow is such a working class city that it's like, so nice to be able to see them have this, like, moment of just pure joy and fun.

And they shed it as they were walking out. And I felt like that was such a symbol. Like they put on their real clothes as they were walking out the door. Because it was like that was a.

We were all.

We were in a time warp. We were in some little, like, matrix place. And then they were back to the real world again.

I guess my question is, how can comedy draw us in? Or like common ground? We're. So I'm thinking of the sketch as you're talking about this and like the working class and where they are.

But, but the sketch of Black Jeopardy. And Tom Hanks is this other modern, one of the best sketch of all time. Then they get to the end and you're like, how do you think about Black?

I thought she's like, nope, stop. His name is what? Thank you.

I think you're all right, Doug.

I think you're right.

He comes to shake his hand and he's like.

But, but you know that, that was such an apocalyptic in the word, the Greek word, in terms of revealing, like revealing the common ground between the two that this certain, the, the human condition that they're both experiencing. The comedy that comes together. That comedy, when done really well, can really draw people together into closer relationships.

So in terms of like, whether it's Rocky Horror Picture show with queer theology or that like, I don't know, just a thought that sparked. What do you guys think? Like, go for it. Other examples or how can it bring us closer?

So go ahead, please. Well, think about the genre of the editorial cartoon.

And so I've got a quote here which says an editorial court tune is not humorous for the sake of humor or controversial for the sake of controversy. Whether you agree with it philosophically or not, a good editorial cartoon engages the reader in debate.

It draws the reader into the democratic process. So I think that one thing humor can do is engage and invite people to reflect. So I mean, think the.

One of the classic stories of humor in the western tradition is Hans Christian Andersen's the Emperor's New Clothing. Right. So what it does is it invites everyone who hears that story into the question is, does the emperor.

And the emperor might be the president of the seminary you work for. Not talking about you, Robin. This was an example. But it might be the governor of the.

You know, a friend of mine says, hey, the thing about Illinois is, you know, four of our last five governors are in prison.

Not Pritzker, though.

Wait, yet. No, no, I mean, seriously, the last speaker, the long term speaker of the Illinois House, he's in prison. Right? It's. But that invitation to.

Okay, what is it about the corrupt political scene where. In Illinois. Not, not wherever you live, Carolinas or whatever.

Thank you. That.

What is it about? Currently they're all in prison.

Henry McMaster's not.

Because that's South Carolina. You have two different stories right now.

Right? That's messed up. Yeah, yeah.

Absolute power concept.

Well, I think this is why it's so important for we, I mean, we already talked about satire in terms of whether it's, you know, website or SNL snl does a great job of making sure that we know about current events. I mean, sure. The best part of SNL is Weekend Update.

And like Norm MacDonald.

About Weekend Update is like, this thing that's happening is crazy. And, like, we should be concerned.

Right.

And if they're presenting it or presenting it in such a. Like, we're laughing.

It was Norm MacDonald on Weekend Update who invented the term fake news.

The best.

He'd say. And now for the fake news. And of course, it wasn't.

Yeah, yeah.

This is the best Weekend Update run of all time. I love.

I'm gonna say Amy Poehler and King of Faye.

Yeah, I'm with you.

No, they were okay.

But Amy Poehler, Seth Meyer's also great.

But I mean, Chevy Chase, you can.

All the way back.

It's really special because to me, it feels like as society goes on, we used to have huge communities of people who would watch the same thing at the same time. True new Simpsons Friday nights. Now the only one that's really left is Weekend Update football. I guess that's a different thing.

How's Georgia doing?

No, actually, everybody. No, I mean, actually everybody just podcasts or youtubes at all. You hate podcasts. I can't stand so many of them.

Stop. Tj. That's right.

Right.

Yeah.

This is exhausting.

Why would I want to hear people talk? I talk.

Is it the first half?

Yes, it's the first half. It's 21 to 17.

It's fin.

21. 17. Ole miss.

Oh, my gosh.

Say that again.

I like Tom over here. Orvis. Like Zach. Like I'm getting killed. He just has a little hurtsy from last week when his Auburn loss.

But anyway, Weekend Update still feels that way is what I was getting at.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. Yeah.

People, right? Studies have shown that people who get their news through comedy. This is across. And are healthier people.

No, I'm sorry.

Go ahead. So we're smarter. Okay. I just want to. Okay, here's. I suspect this. No, they're as well informed as people who get it through. So if my father.

My father and mother would always watch the PBS McNeil Lair NewsHour. But they're both. They're probably both dead by now. And so now it's whoever succeeded them. Right. Every night. But people who watch the. The Nate.

The late night comics who do news. And by the way, what's the number one show on cable news? Don't say anything. The person I'm married to. Anybody know what? No, not the Daily Show. Yes.

Okay.

Amy Nobody has cable.

I'm sorry, what is, what is cable?

Exactly.

But the point is, cable I'm familiar with is.

I'm talking about Synet.

No, it's, it's, it's. It's Greg Gutfeld's comedy show. Right. But it's okay, you don't have to like it, but it informs people equally as well as. As pbs. Yeah, it does.

You might not like the humor, but it's just as it will tell you the news as well as the others. And yes, here we go. Okay, I think you might not like the perspective, but just telling what the news is. Go ahead, D.J.

So for me, typically what'll happen is I'm listening to someone put on a bid about something that's happened recently. And I was like, wow, I bet that was fucking funny. Better find out if it was. I better research that. I bet that joke was hilarious.

You know, my students are between the ages because I teach at a community college. So I have some high schoolers and then all the way up to seniors. I have three lovely ladies auditing who are. They're seniors in the community.

They get to audit for free. And so a wide range of perspectives. But the younger students don't. I say like, we watch this TV show. What are you watching?

And it's like TikTok Instagram, right? YouTube. Like they're not watching TV like we used to. So, so what they get are the bits and then they'll go look it up like you said.

Like they're gonna be like, oh, that was funny. I'll go watch the rest of it. But they're not going to consume stuff just like generally.

And so, yeah, it's important to be able to be, I guess, kind of attention grabbing quickly. And humor can do that.

Something funny is going to make us watch the rest of it and then you can get more, you know, you can have a serious bit as you go. I like Josh Johnson, who is on the Daily show but also does like stand up stuff.

And he did it was an explainer about the Kendrick and Drake feud for white people.

If you don't watch it, it's amazing.

It is the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life. But he doesn't just explain the feud.

He's also like layering in there important information about, you know, like culture and the ways that things translate and all this. It's very, very smart. He's really intelligent.

He's so well crafted. He fills you in on like 18 years of beef.

So like five minutes.

My favorite part is when he goes, push a T. That's a rapper.

He goes, white people that. Why are you. He points out one white guy, he's like, that's a rapper.

Just so you know. So, like, he's so funny.

So one of the things you just said is it's really smart. Whatever, humor. So if you're familiar with multiple intelligence theory, there's different ways that different people are smart.

And, tj, if you keep working at it, you're gonna find one day. Yeah, one day. I keep praying I don't know TJ well enough to really.

Since I was, like, 14, I'll be this smart until who knows?

But humor is a form of intelligence, just like music is and. And. And just like math is. But it's. It's in the. In the manuals on multiple intelligence theory. There's no chapter on humor. Yeah, but there should be.

There should be.

And I had to confess, too, to Christy. You can talk in this, too. Is. I don't. Y'.

All.

Is Trip Fuller around? Oh, he's. He's probably. Oh, he's talking to James. Forgot.

It's okay. He's not paying attention.

He doesn't pay it a trip.

No.

I don't see. He's still not paying attention. Don't look. Don't look.

Don't make eye contact. Don't make eye contact. He's looking over here now, actually.

Love python. Guys.

Look, she's wrong about a lot of things. Hey, baby boy.

How are you?

What's happening?

What's your.

I don't love it.

What's your favorite line from Life of Brian?

We are all individuals. Where they all scream. We are all individuals together.

My name is Brian.

I've seen it.

He's coming your way.

He's coming your way. Leah. Don't look.

Don't look.

What's up, Tripp?

We just said we really love Bonnie Pipe.

Tripp, what's your. What's your favorite line from Life of Brian?

The gourd.

The gourd.

The gourd.

The holy gourd.

The holy gourd. I mean, I'm a Holy Grail person. That's where I'm at. And the number of times that I tell people that their mother smelled of elderberries.

I mean, which. It's important.

We all know what that means.

Yeah.

We didn't really need you.

We were just.

I did hear you were talking shit about me today.

I actually like the part. The only. The two parts I like best are one, where they go. The only time you actually see Jesus in the movie is. He's in the distance.

And he said, you know, blessed are the peacemakers. And they go, did he say, blessed are the cheesemakers? No, he really means blessed are all purveyors of dairy products.

Right.

I feel like when he's looking out the window and he's like, don't listen to me. And they're all listening to him. Think for yourselves.

I also like the bit about. And you help me, the Palestinian Liberation Front. And he goes, no. Did you mean the liberation affront for Palestinians? No.

He's over there, you know, making fun of these, like, tiny little movements that they split because they disagree. And Protestants don't know anything about that.

Holy moly.

Not a thing. Right, Exactly. They built the roads in the aqueducts. And.

I do like aspects of it. I'm kind of a. I'm not a Gen Zer. Y' all hold the shock. But I do think I'm a little Gen Z about Monty Python, which is. I like the skit.

Some of the skits in it. But watching it sometimes, like, she thinks it's too long.

Speaking of Gen Z. Yeah. You're not Gen Z. You said.

Yeah, I.

Wait a second. I gotta think about that. Hold on.

It's an elder millennial.

Yeah, we're. We're elder.

But you're Not Gen X. TJ's 14.

He's a Gen what? I don't even know what you are.

14 millennials. Millennials are the baby boomers. Is this being streamed. I was about.

It is being recorded.

Okay, then I thank you. I just have to moderate my language.

You don't.

The millennials are the bab. Last Revenge upon the world. Their kids.

Okay.

So sorry, if that's you.

And we're gonna. And that's all we have for now. We're done. No, we do have, like, two. We're not gonna end on that note. There's a couple minutes left.

Is there a question or thought or revelation?

So many.

Yeah.

So I'm thinking about Monty Pythons, and my husband and I, who are millennials, watched all of searches, like, in the first couple years of our marriage.

It is.

It's not.

It's not.

We're not British babies. And maybe if we were, it would be funny to us. And so I'm wondering about, like, the youth and the fact that it is.

Deeply contextual right now.

Yeah. Effectively, when we're communicating with people, it's not like, is there a.

That's Necessary.

Oh, yeah.

When it comes to cringe, like, if I'm, like, trying to, like, workshop some jokes and my. My kids look at me and be like, dad, that's super cringe. You need to stop.

I'm like, okay, I need to keep working on this or, like, double down or just keep going until they laugh or. Or just walk away. But.

But.

But I think. Yeah, I think it's a. Incredible point in terms of generational. Well, what's your taste of humor and those kinds of things? I think. I think is. It's.

Yeah.

One of the things that I think is super important, and I talk about it a lot, both in theology and literature, is to always know your context, and not just the context of who wrote it or who sang it, but also who is the audience. And then you have to take that third layer of who are you? As an audience now? And what are you.

What are the, like, different lenses you're reading it through?

And I think, especially with humor, if you don't have a good understanding of all of that context for something, there's a lot of stuff that can get lost and. Or becomes just bad. Right. Like, now we're like, ooh, that is not funny anymore. You know? And I think that's really, really important for humor. Yeah.

And my husband's British. He's from. And he doesn't think Monty Python's very funny. And he's probably blew up on it.

Confirmation bias.

Yeah, Well, I mean, but it's not that it's. Again, aspect are funny. Like, and we point. You know what. The skits we've had point out the funny bits. But the issue is there's an hour left.

So, like, Leah wants to watch the TikTok version of mine. I really do.

I do. And it. It's. It's not that I don't like humor, it's just that I don't find that.

Yeah, well, you don't like a stout.

I don't like who?

A stout. Like a stout beard.

No, I think that's real gross.

All right, so she's just not a dry person.

So I need to go because, I mean, I managed Worship is worsh in 15 minutes, and I'm operating a guitar. Okay. But I do want to say one of the deepest problems with humor, or challenges, rather, is it's culturally specific.

And so if I use humor in my class and I have people that are not North American, then to the degree I use humor, I exclude them. But that's also why we don't get the Humor in the Bible. So I've got quotes in here about there's no humor in the Bible. Alfred Lord. Okay, don't tell.

Don't tell Fuller. But Alfred Lord Whitehead said there's no humor in the Bible. But no, think about. Think about the emperor in Daniel.

Whenever you hear the sound of the trigon and the sultry and the learning and the drum and the harp and the recorder and any musical instrument, all the precepts and the governors and the. Right.

We laugh every Easter vigil.

But you have to read it. Right. But culturally, if you've been told there's no humor in the Bible, and you're like, oh, yes, the SAT traps and the precepts and the governor.

Right. It's hilarious.

It's hilarious. Rolf Jacobson's book, Divine Laughter. Find it by it. And Thomas has something he can't. Wait.

I will say Christie did point out that Paul fell out of a window.

Yes.

Because he was so boring.

Paul was so boring. A man fell.

Sorry, he did. A man fell.

I think he died first and then fell.

No, he died because of the fall.

Yeah, I. I actually think he died because Paul was boring.

And then just.

And then he fell.

Either way, Paul killed a man. He was so boring. And they put it.

Has anyone ever fallen out of a.

Lot when you're hilarious.

Tom.

Tom, go for it.

So this last point about the Bible.

What happens when we canonize humor?

When the Book of Revelation, when Jonah. Are satirical humor texts that we put an Enlightenment, modernity, Protestant epistemology on that says there. When really they're.

The emperor has no clothes. Look at the horror. Like, what does that do to how we worship, how we engage what is called sacred text.

The last thing I want to say is that I do think you said it earlier.

Yeah.

Humor being seen as not smart or not serious is the downfall of society. We have to be able to understand humor. Oh, my God, this fly.

He's a big fan.

A big fan of humor.

Yeah. If we had a big fan, he'd be.

Because otherwise, like, we immediately dismiss or we don't understand and we're not correctly trying to understand. And humor is so smart and it's so good and so useful.

But also to Tom's question.

I gotta run. Thank you all you guys continue.

I do want to say to Tom's question, I think what happens is, what we see in the academy is that you get all of these pompous people that take everything so seriously.

And what we do is we get really, really conservative doctrine that comes out of the Bible because people are unable to read contextually because they're like, well, this is the word of God and this is what God said and this is what? And okay, well, God spoke to Adam. Was that real? What? What's going on?

Job?

Let's talk about Job.

You want to think that's for real? Job is crazy.

There's a lot of stuff to think about if you believe in a Bible that's inherent where you have a story like Job that you think is absolutely correct and happen in real time.

My hot take on Job is that it's the start of the life skit. All right, thank you guys for coming. Go up to TJ and share your favorite church joke with him and he can't wait.

I'm okay with that if someone wants to. My ears are small, but they work.

Remember to use small words. He's young.

Sa.