🎙️ Fully Alive: Discovering Your God-Given Strengths

A heartfelt conversation with Katherine Sikma Wadsworth.

In this powerful and life-giving episode of Living Fearlessly, Michelle sits down with leadership coach Katherine Sigma Wadsworth to unpack the truth about identity, strengths, and what it really means to be fully alive.

Rooted in the truth that you are God’s masterpiece, this conversation explores how understanding your natural strengths can free you from comparison, silence the lies of “not enough,” and help you step boldly into who you were created to be.

Because here’s the truth:

You were never meant to be everything to everyone.

You were created on purpose—with purpose.

Together, Michelle and Katherine dive into the transformative tool of CliftonStrengths and how it reveals not just what you’re good at—but how you’re wired to thrive.

They also explore how fear and anxiety show up in our lives—and how learning to understand ourselves (instead of fighting ourselves) can lead to deeper peace, healing, and freedom.

💬 Key Takeaways:

• Learn what the CliftonStrengths (StrengthsFinder) assessment is and how it works
• The difference between signature themes, supporting strengths, and non-patterns (hint: there are no weaknesses!)
• The four domains of CliftonStrengths: Executing, Relationship Building, Strategic Thinking, and Influencing — and why we need all of them
• Why you are not meant to be well-rounded — you're meant to be part of a well-rounded team
• How knowing your strengths can free you from shame and comparison
• Why self-knowledge is the foundation for living the life you were created for

💛 About Katherine:

Katherine Sikma Wadsworth is an ICF-certified leadership coach, teacher, group facilitator, and the host of the You Gotta Try This! podcast. She loves to help women reignite the fire within them, helping them reclaim their power, purpose, and passion.

• Facebook: Katherine Sikma
• Instagram: @ksikma, @ksikmaphotography, @yougottatrythispodcast
• LinkedIn: Katherine Sikma Wadsworth
• Website: reanimationconsulting.com

Resources Mentioned

• StrengthsFinder 2.0 by Tom Rath
• The Wisdom of Your Body by Hillary McBride
• Inside Out (Pixar) — a great illustration of Internal Family Systems

Some links in these show notes are affiliate links.This means a small commission may be earned at no extra cost to you.

Stay Connected with Living Fearlessly

🎧 New episodes released weekly.

➕ Subscribe, follow, and share with someone who needs encouragement.

✉️ Contact the Living Fearlessly Podcast at [email protected].

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

We are God's masterpiece, and a

2

masterpiece doesn't come off an

assembly line, and it's not the

3

same as all of these other ones.

4

It's not a copy.

5

It's unique and it takes time to

create, and are a masterpiece.

6

You're not like anyone else.

7

Saint Irenaus like the glory of

God is a human being fully alive,

8

when you can become fully alive,

that's where the magic happens.

9

So that's what I wanna help people figure

out in coaching is like, who are you?

10

What's your deal?

11

Like, how can we get this other stuff

so that you can be who you are without

12

this like play acting of trying to

be someone that you really are not.

13

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Hi, it's Michelle and welcome back

14

to the Living Fearlessly Podcast.

15

I am very truly excited today to have.

16

Katherine Sigma Wadsworth on the podcast.

17

This lady, I got to know her when I was

doing some, strengths finder coaching,

18

and we'll have her explain a little

bit more about that, uh, for another

19

organization that do some consulting with.

20

And, I was introduced to the

strengths finder tests, so it's a

21

way of seeing what you are really

good at, and the areas where, maybe

22

you struggle just to help you see.

23

And she's gonna explain more of that.

24

So I'm gonna like tone

myself down in what I say.

25

But I will say that when I first did the

StrengthsFinder test when I was 35 years

26

old, um, not doing the math on the years.

27

Right now it's just too much.

28

But when I was 35, I did the

StrengthsFinder test or somewhere in

29

there and I remember being shocked

'cause I was like, wait a minute.

30

Like, it helped me to see, and I'll just

say more later, but it helped me to see.

31

Why there were certain personalities

that for years I did not get along

32

with and didn't understand who, by

the way, these people who actually

33

have strengths that I don't have are

now some of my best friends, but it

34

really helps you get to know yourself.

35

The more we know ourselves, the

more that we can be okay with not

36

being everything to everybody.

37

And I love Katherine's heart and

in our work together, I could just

38

tell that she just had a heart

for people, but also for women.

39

And so I was really excited when

Katherine agreed to be on the podcast.

40

And you're in for a treat today.

41

Like get ready to learn how to

identify your strengths and how

42

knowing what our weaknesses are

is actually not a bad thing.

43

It's actually a really, really good thing.

44

So Katherine, thank you for

your, yes, for being on here.

45

Can you just introduce yourself,

share a little bit about who you are,

46

and then just also just talk about

like what the StrengthsFinders are,

47

why they're important, and maybe we

can just start diving in from there.

48

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

That sounds great.

49

Thank you so much for having me, Michelle.

50

It's really a delight to be here

and to get to talk about this.

51

I really enjoyed the time that

we got to spend together in

52

coaching before, and I think.

53

It's great to hear that it was so

impactful for you, and I am really

54

glad to introduce this tool to your

audience, and hopefully, I'm sure

55

some of them have heard of it before.

56

It's very much in the zeitgeist.

57

People know about CliftonStrengths

and I think it's such an incredible

58

tool to help understand who you are.

59

There's a lot of theologians have pointed

to the idea that knowledge of God and

60

knowledge of self are intertwined and it's

hard to say which one precedes the other.

61

And so I really believe that the more

we learn about ourselves, the more

62

we learn about God and vice versa.

63

And this is ,a great tool to start

to point to what that's about.

64

So yeah.

65

Glad to be here.

66

Thanks for having me.

67

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yay.

68

I'm like, I'm like a little kid.

69

Start by just telling

70

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

yeah,

71

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

who you're like

72

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

yeah,

73

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

What you do, like what makes you tick.

74

What I love about, this podcast, well,

why God really called me to this.

75

I have nine sisters.

76

I have a lot of girlfriends, and I

just think that women are awesome.

77

And the more we can get to know you

and who you are and then dive into.

78

The main topic at hand would be awesome.

79

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

That sounds great.

80

Well, I also have a lot of sister,

sorry, I thought I had a lot.

81

I have three.

82

You have.

83

Three

84

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Nine.

85

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yes.

86

Um, that's crazy.

87

But yeah, I feel a really

strong passion for women.

88

I love helping women figure

out who they are and how to be.

89

More fully that.

90

I am a leadership coach and I work with

men and women, though I do feel like I

91

said that special passion for supporting

women in this process of self-discovery.

92

I have a coaching practice that's

called Re-animation Consulting.

93

And I named it that because I love

helping people come back to life.

94

So often we find ourselves feeling stuck.

95

I work with a lot of people who are in

transition, so they're trying to figure

96

out, you know, I've been in this role for

a long time and now I'm just not feeling

97

it and I don't know where to go next, and

I love to help people find what's next.

98

So I describe my work often with a

metaphor that when you're feeling kind

99

of lost, um, maybe in like in a dark

cave and you just don't know where

100

to go, you can't see the way out.

101

I like to come in like a flashlight,

so my work is a tool that you can use

102

to see more, shed more light around

where you are and what's getting in

103

the way and where might be a way out.

104

So that's the way that I

like to approach things.

105

I would wanna accompany you come

alongside and help you figure

106

out what your next steps are.

107

And tools like the strengths

finder are really good.

108

Almost like a map.

109

So you can look at this tool and

it will show you where to look for

110

stuff within your own inner world.

111

And you can see what strengths are

here, what strengths are not here

112

that I also need to be aware of.

113

And that can really help.

114

So in coaching like again, I take

my flashlight and we look at that

115

map together, we see what's going on

internally and how you can use that

116

to help you take the next step and

figure out where you're supposed to be.

117

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I love that.

118

Okay, and real quick are you

coffee, tea, wine, whiskey?

119

Give something about yourself.

120

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I love all, um, I mostly drank coffee

121

over tea, though I did recently find one.

122

My podcast editor, my own podcast

editor, she introduced me to

123

Tea Pigs licorice mint tea.

124

I.

125

I'm obsessed with it, even though

I thought I hate licorice, but

126

I really, really love that one.

127

So I will drink tea sometimes.

128

I do like wine, I love like an Italian

red that's like my fave or, nice crisp

129

sparkling white is lovely as well,

though I have been known to also drink

130

whiskey on occasion, so, you know.

131

I'm an Enneagram seven.

132

I don't know if any of your listeners

are familiar with that particular

133

assessment tool, but it's one of my

favorites as well, and that type of

134

person tends to wanna try everything,

wants to experience everything, and

135

that feels very true to who I am.

136

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

That's awesome.

137

It makes me think of one of the

Catholic Saints that I love is St.

138

Therese.

139

She's just very simple, but the one

statement she says, and I'm very similar.

140

And she says, I want it all.

141

Like, I just want it all.

142

And I'm like, yes.

143

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

yes.

144

Yeah.

145

So as we were saying just before we turned

on the recording, I'm not Catholic, so I

146

don't know a ton about the Saints except

for maybe I should learn more about her.

147

That sounds, maybe she's mine.

148

She's for me.

149

Yes.

150

I also want it all.

151

Yeah.

152

So a couple other things about me.

153

I do leadership coaching

as my main part of my work.

154

But I also love a lot of variety

in my work, so I do lots of things.

155

I am on the faculty with the Pittsburgh

Leadership Foundation, where I get

156

to teach leaders from all around

the city here in Pittsburgh, which

157

is, I don't think I said, where I

live, about how to be better leaders.

158

So we've all experienced

bad bosses in our work.

159

Unfortunately, that is a

pretty common experience.

160

And so we try to help leaders

learn how to be better, to

161

cultivate spaces where people

162

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552: Uh

163

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

So I do a lot of that kind of work.

164

I also have my own podcast.

165

It's called, You Gotta Try This, where

I talk about things that are making my

166

life better that I think you should try.

167

as part of that, I

practice delight regularly.

168

So in every episode we

169

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552: oh.

170

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Something that's.

171

Bringing me delight these days.

172

And I invite my listeners to share

also what they are finding delight in.

173

And I think it's a really important

practice for us to cultivate,

174

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

175

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

attention, going to the things that

176

give life and connection and beauty.

177

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right.

178

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

It's so easy to miss all of that stuff.

179

So I have a regular practice

of cultivating delight.

180

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I love that.

181

Like I am very big on

practicing gratitude.

182

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yes.

183

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

but I hadn't really thought

184

about practicing delight.

185

I am going to sit on that

186

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Do

187

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

and put some thought into it because,

188

it kind of makes me think going

along with Wonder Delight and wonder.

189

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yes.

190

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

all right, so I'm gonna chew on that.

191

I'm gonna invite you listeners,

listening in just to think about that

192

delight, now talking about strengths.

193

And we're gonna have like a million

things to talk about, so maybe

194

we'll just have to do this again.

195

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah,

196

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Um, but talking about strengths, one

197

of the things that I noticed, so, uh,

well, why don't you first actually.

198

Explain what the strengths finder test

is, or it's the Clifton strengths,

199

I think is what they call it now.

200

The Clifton Strengths test is,

and how it breaks down between

201

your executing, influencing and

what a high level what those mean,

202

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Sure.

203

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

and anything else I might miss that

204

they need to know within all of that.

205

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah, sure.

206

Okay.

207

So I, this is great.

208

I teach a class on how to accompany

people through their Clifton strengths.

209

This is part of the

coaching skills and stuff.

210

So I talk about this a lot,

though I usually, I have slides

211

to present alongside with this.

212

So here you're gonna get

my off the cuff version.

213

the Clifton Strengths assessment is

helping you understand who you are

214

and what are the naturally occurring

talents that you were born with.

215

So all of us, we come into being with

particular ways of being that are, they

216

feel like this is just who I'm made to be.

217

So it's like you're right-handed

or you're left-handed.

218

Like this is just who you are.

219

And there's no value attached to some

of these being better or worse in the

220

same way that it's not a character

flaw to prefer one hand over the other.

221

So we're just looking at what is

true about you, so you take this

222

assessment and asks you to choose

between all these different pairs

223

as you go through, and it is timed.

224

So some people get a little

stressed out when they take it.

225

But you're just supposed to go

with what feels most natural,

226

like your first thought.

227

If you just could be like, at home with

your shoes off, like in your slippers,

228

like what would you choose here?

229

And so, you end up getting these results.

230

The first page looks like

a DNA strip across the top.

231

And it has three kind of categories

of strengths that we wanna pay

232

attention to there, I should say first.

233

So it's telling you about your talents.

234

And then when we invest in those

talents by practice, by refinement,

235

that's when they turn into a strength.

236

So it's called a StrengthsFinder,

but it's really first telling

237

you about your talent.

238

So that's the first part.

239

So we're gonna get a list at the top, the

top 10, though most people have between

240

nine and 14 what we call signature themes.

241

And these are the ones that are just feel,

like I said, the most natural to you.

242

This is what you're made to do.

243

So, if you could just go about

the world feeling fancy free,

244

this is how you would be.

245

And those ones are like, you can

make a ton of progress in those,

246

when you invest in them and they

can really become full strength.

247

So these are the things we use A

couple metaphors in the training.

248

One is like if you had a toolbox.

249

These ones, the signature themes

are the things that are like

250

your hammer, your screwdriver.

251

It's stuff you're reaching for constantly,

like you might even keep in your belt so

252

that it's easily accessible all the time.

253

We might think of it as

like driving on a highway.

254

These are the ones where you can

put on cruise control and you

255

can go really fast really far.

256

There's not a lot in the way.

257

It's easy to use these.

258

Then we have a second category of

talents, and these ones we call supporting

259

or auxiliary supplemental strengths.

260

And these ones are energy neutral.

261

So where the signature themes,

they're like, they feel natural.

262

You get a lot of energy when you use them.

263

These ones, they're just kind of there.

264

You can reach for them as needed.

265

So in your toolbox, this is stuff

you're gonna pull out like a needle

266

nose pliers for this specific task.

267

I can use this thing.

268

It's easy to use, but I'm

not keeping it in my belt.

269

Or to use the traffic metaphor, it might

be like driving around in a neighborhood

270

so you can, again, make progress.

271

But there's intersections, there's

stop signs, there's pedestrians.

272

We just have to pay a

little more attention.

273

And then the third category of strengths

would be what we call non patterns.

274

We do not call them

weaknesses in the strengths.

275

Real.

276

This is super important.

277

This is very, very important.

278

They're non patterns because

your brain lacks the neural

279

pathways to use them easily.

280

So you have to think about this

just like you are made naturally

281

to prefer one hand over the other,

when you try to use your other hand,

282

it just doesn't work very well.

283

I always have people do an exercise

when I coach them through this, in

284

which they just write a sentence with

our normal, dominant hand and then

285

try again with the other, and then.

286

The second time, they're like, uh,

I forgot how to spell the word, or

287

I wrote the letter backwards, or

it just took me four times as long.

288

It takes so much more effort because

your brain's just not primed to

289

use those easily, so they cost you

energy when you need to use them.

290

So going back to our toolbox example,

that would be something that's like

291

maybe a little rusty in the bottom

that you don't even recognize.

292

Like, what is that even for?

293

I don't know how to use that.

294

In the road example, this would be trying

to like do trail running or something

295

like you can't run in the woods.

296

There's trees, there's roots,

there's lions and tigers and bears.

297

Oh my.

298

Like you have to take a lot more time

and attention use those strengths.

299

Not a character flaw.

300

It's not a weakness unless it becomes

a problem that you're having to use

301

this a lot and you don't know how.

302

So that's a really important distinction.

303

That's just not who you are In the

same way, the signature themes tell us,

304

this is who I am, this is who I'm not.

305

I just wanna pause there for a second

and see if you have any like response

306

or questions to that, because it

is a different way of talking about

307

the strengths than the world tends

308

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

309

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

use those terms.

310

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Now I love it and I love how you're like,

311

it's not weaknesses because I'm like,

these are my ton weaknesses, you know?

312

And I know that's not the

verbiage that you used.

313

Well, actually, we haven't gone over my,

my, uh, what are we calling them again?

314

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

patterns.

315

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

patterns.

316

I need to finish those out.

317

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

318

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I just wanna say for those who are

319

really unfamiliar with this terminology,

that what I personally discovered

320

doing this test initially on my

own without any help, this is years

321

ago, it was so eye-opening because I

learned like about myself that Wow.

322

Troubleshooting problem solving,

or what they call restorative

323

is the top strength that I have.

324

And I'm like, oh my gosh,

this is why I loved working.

325

I was just under a Linux administrator

in my first job hopping from server

326

to server in a terminal environment,

very much like the Matrix.

327

And I loved it.

328

It'd be six o'clock and my

husband would call me and be

329

like, are you coming home yet?

330

And I wouldn't even know what time it was.

331

And I was like, oh.

332

But it also helped me to

understand why people with more

333

of a melancholic personality.

334

Who like to write their list.

335

I didn't have, I didn't have very many

strategy strengths in my top 10 and I

336

struggled with people who always had

to have a plan and I'm like, oh my

337

gosh, can we just go with the flow?

338

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

339

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

over time, I, I once had a friend tell me,

340

like, she almost left me at an airport.

341

She said, honestly, , I have to get on the

plane 'cause I'm going here afterwards.

342

We're heading straight to vacation.

343

And if things didn't happen in the

time, 'cause everything was planned

344

out, her whole day was gonna fall apart.

345

It was the first time I was like, oh, oh.

346

Like you can actually think

that far in advance and.

347

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

she probably has more

348

strengths like discipline and

349

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah,

350

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

and things like that.

351

Absolutely.

352

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

like in my bottom 10.

353

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yes.

354

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

So I love how you put that, that we

355

have the ones that are really easy for

me, I could problem solve all day long.

356

And then we have the ones that are hard

and discipline is a harder one for me.

357

And it's easy, especially

as women to look at.

358

Well that's a failure on my part.

359

Like if I can't do something that

someone else can't, I used to work

360

with people who are really good with

strategy, and this was before I took

361

and understood this about myself, and I

would feel like a failure when I couldn't

362

do the same things that they could do

363

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right.

364

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And I would get kind of jealous.

365

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

366

Yeah.

367

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552: It.

368

And I think it would be really great

just to give some solid examples

369

of like you're talking to the heart

of the woman, you who are listening

370

right now, we're speaking to her.

371

How can you take everything that

you've shared, but let's bring it

372

in a simple, like expand on it a

little bit more that can bring hope

373

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

374

Yeah.

375

Yeah.

376

So I really love coaching people,

especially, well, I love to coach

377

'em through their signature themes

so that they get a sense of like,

378

oh wow, this is something that

I thought everyone could do.

379

And it turns out this is unique

to me and maybe even people

380

need me to show up this way.

381

'cause it's not obvious to them that

like we could do things in X, Y, Z way.

382

We need to, people need this perspective.

383

also really love to coach people

through those non patterns at the bottom

384

because then my goal in those sessions

is for people to feel free from that

385

shame that they can put on themselves

because maybe they were told, well, you

386

really should plan better, Michelle.

387

Like, don't you think you

should have a schedule?

388

And maybe your parents were really good

at that, and that's the way that they

389

expect people to work in the world.

390

And yet.

391

are built with a strength that is very

attentive to what's going on right now.

392

You're attentive to the things

that are not going well, and

393

you feel motivated to fix them.

394

So we need somebody who is present in

this moment, not somebody who's planning,

395

you know, 10 years in the future.

396

need both of those things, but

those are both good strengths.

397

And there's nothing wrong with

you that you're doing it this way.

398

Sometimes in the coaching.

399

I'll talk about like a duck.

400

Ducks are excellent swimmers.

401

They got those webbed feet.

402

They're really, really good.

403

They can move really quick in the water.

404

They also fly very well.

405

They've got wings, feathers, et cetera.

406

not great runners.

407

Their feet are not built for

that, so not gonna expect them

408

to run a marathon because.

409

They're not made to run.

410

That doesn't mean that the duck is

broken or defective in some way.

411

It's an excellent duck.

412

Never gonna run a marathon

in the same way that

413

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

414

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Take a fish out of water and

415

then complain that it's dying.

416

Like it's not made to

live outside of the water.

417

It's not gonna climb a tree ever.

418

It's

419

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Hmm.

420

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

But that doesn't mean it's.

421

Broken.

422

We just need to know what it's made for

and put it in the right conditions for it

423

to thrive and stop judging ourselves based

424

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

425

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Strength.

426

When we do that, we're always gonna

find ourselves defective because

427

we're measuring ourselves against our,

428

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right,

429

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

is not about us.

430

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

right.

431

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah

432

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I love that.

433

That just brings to mind one of

my favorite scriptures that we're

434

fearfully and wonderfully made that

the Lord knit us together in the womb.

435

And it is so easy to feel broken

when really, honestly, we were

436

created in a different way.

437

And when we start to recognize that,

like I love my favorite pairing working

438

with people is working with someone

who has real strong strategy strengths.

439

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Mm-hmm.

440

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And is very organized.

441

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

442

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Those are two things I struggle

443

with and I have felt in the

past, I felt broken with that.

444

I'm like, ah, my house, things

like, I just need to get organized.

445

And sometimes it's connecting with

people who can help fill in that gap

446

and know that I am not less of a person

because I'm not naturally organized.

447

I'm not less of a person because

I need help with the strategy part

448

because guess what I'm really good

at saying, here's where we're at.

449

Let's look at all these things.

450

This is where we need to be.

451

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yep.

452

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

with someone who's like, okay,

453

this is how we can get there

and working together on that.

454

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right.

455

That's

456

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And you make the most amazing outcomes

457

when you work together, when your

458

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

right.

459

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

is gone.

460

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

461

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

You can come together.

462

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

That's totally true.

463

That's a really important piece.

464

I think in our culture, we tend

to think that we should be able

465

to do everything on our own.

466

We praise like the Lone Ranger,

the one who is able to like the

467

little engine that could, I mean,

just look at the stories that we

468

teach and we tell and we celebrate.

469

We expect people to be

fully self-reliant that is.

470

A lie from the pit of hell.

471

Like it's just not true that we

can be, and where we're meant to

472

be self-sufficient on our own.

473

So when we tell people like, oh,

you can be anything you want,

474

you can't, that's not true.

475

You can be what you've

been created to be and

476

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I love that you said that.

477

I love that you just said that.

478

You said we tell people they

can be anything they want, but.

479

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

You can't, you can't.

480

And that's okay.

481

And it's not that you can't like

experience things and try things

482

and whatever, but like you are

made in a particular way with

483

particular gifts and skills.

484

So in the same way that we would

look at an animal and look at this

485

duck, where should this duck be?

486

Where should we put this fish?

487

Be where you are created to be like, be

who you actually are and stop trying to

488

feel like you need to be everybody else.

489

We are not meant to be well-rounded.

490

We are meant to be part

of a well-rounded team.

491

you've been mentioning a couple of times

here like these other, I didn't mention

492

these four domains of the strengths.

493

So lemme go back to that one second.

494

I think this will make more sense.

495

we have got 34 talent themes in

the Clifton strengths world, and

496

those are broken down, like I

said, into those three categories.

497

You individually, yours are gonna

be the strengths that are in that.

498

are gonna be different

for every single person.

499

But in the general sense, they've

broken all 34 down into four domains or

500

buckets that all have things in common.

501

So we've got executing domain.

502

Those strengths that are in that bucket

are really good at getting stuff done.

503

So they love a task list.

504

They're gonna check things off, they're

gonna show up to the meeting, they've

505

done their things, and they're looking

for their next like set of stuff.

506

So they keep the whole group

moving toward our goal, make

507

sure we keep making progress.

508

Next we have the

relationship building domain.

509

And those people are really good at

paying attention to who's actually here

510

and what do they need, who are they?

511

They make people feel seen and

heard and known, they can take us

512

from just a group of individuals

into a real team or a community.

513

And we need them to show up with

those strengths so that we don't

514

just bowl everybody over on

our way to like, finish stuff.

515

Then we have the strategic thinking

domain and those people are really

516

good at seeing around the corner

so they can figure out a good plan.

517

They can assess all these different

options, figure out what's the right one.

518

They help us make really good decisions,

so we really need them to help us

519

keep an eye out for what we should do.

520

And then lastly, we have the influencing

domain, and this one is the rarest.

521

We don't have a ton of people

who lead out of this strength.

522

And also when I say lead out of this

category or this domain, it's when you

523

have like a bunch of strengths in your

signature set that are in that domain.

524

So if you've got a few in that, then

we would say you lead from that domain.

525

So we don't need a lot of people leading

out of influencing because what they

526

do is they convene groups and they get

people to move all in the same direction.

527

they're really good at speaking for

the group, speaking to the group,

528

making sure we're on the same page.

529

They sometimes have like kind

of a cheerleader energy where

530

they're like, let's go, come on.

531

And they motivate.

532

So they're getting things done

by getting other people to do it.

533

So if we have too much of that,

we would have a lot of people with

534

great ideas and nobody coming along.

535

So those are the rarest

of the four domains.

536

as I'm talking through these, I hope

it's becoming clear that we need all of

537

that to happen for any human enterprise.

538

Like a family, an organization,

a church, a business, whatever.

539

All four of those things are

critically important, none of us

540

is going to have all of that on

board and we shouldn't expect to.

541

And so rather than trying to be

well-rounded and get good at everything

542

on our own so that we can be an

island unto ourselves really what we

543

should be working on is try to create

well-rounded teams of people, so each

544

of us can show up with what we are

best at and bring others along, invite

545

them in to help with the things that

we are not good at so they can shine.

546

And when we all show up in our

strength, that's where we get

547

the best impact, most effect.

548

It's beautiful when we see

everybody working together.

549

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

You know, I think about, like, even

550

as a stay at home mom, or there's

a lot of women who have their own

551

businesses, maybe they're raising

children or just want their own business.

552

And often when we do stuff like we feel

like we have to do it alone, whether

553

it's meal planning, which I hate.

554

I hate meal planning.

555

I don't like it.

556

Everyone who knows me knows

it's a struggle I have.

557

So I'm always telling my husband,

sit down with me and help me make,

558

help me with this piece of it,

559

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

560

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

he's, that's his strength.

561

He's so good at it.

562

But it's like one learning to lean

in with our spouse or friends.

563

I heard the other day that here in

Front Royal, there was a group of

564

women years ago that used to sit down

and plan a month of meals together.

565

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

566

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

all of these families ate

567

basically the same thing

568

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yes.

569

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Every week because they

570

would do it together.

571

So it's finding another, another

mom or another friend I know I

572

consult and I hate working alone.

573

Like I do not like working alone.

574

I tantrum about it.

575

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Mm-hmm.

576

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

is not my favorite thing to do.

577

And so I've found ways to reach

out and connect to people who

578

have strengths that I don't have.

579

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

580

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

When I have questions or when I

581

need help with something, if I'm

working on something that has a

582

little more strategy, I might call

my friend Melissa up and be like,

583

Hey, can you gimme some insight here?

584

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

585

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

that's her gifting, but the biggest thing

586

is learning that it's okay and not to

feel down on ourselves or less because

587

it is amazing how much further we can go

and what we can get done when we learn

588

that it's okay to lean in and let someone

else shine in their area of strength,

589

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yep.

590

That's what it's all about.

591

Learning to lean into each other,

to support each other, and to accept

592

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552: I.

593

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And to offer help, like that's, it's.

594

What we're made for.

595

We really are meant to be a communal

people, and I think that is a major

596

struggle that we have inflicted

upon ourselves in our like hyper

597

individualized society where we

just expect everyone to be in their

598

house handling their own thing.

599

I love that idea of having, getting

together with friends and helping,

600

like, let's all meal plan together.

601

Let's figure out what needs

to happen and help each other.

602

Or even like batch cooking and sharing.

603

That's, I think, really

what we're supposed to be.

604

So, yeah.

605

Love that.

606

And it's a perfect example of

leaning into each other's strengths.

607

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Now, can you share how, 'cause clearly

608

you got into this at some point.

609

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Mm-hmm.

610

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552: Can

you share how this has impacted your life?

611

Like maybe what it was like before you

learned about your strengths and how the

612

title of the podcast is living Fearlessly,

like how it has helped you look at some

613

of the core fears that the enemy tries

to speak into us and how it's helped

614

you to continue to grow and thrive.

615

I.

616

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah, sure.

617

Yeah.

618

So I got into Clifton strengths

probably almost 20 years ago.

619

I was leading a group of college students

and we, I had them take this assessment

620

together so that we could learn how to.

621

How they could grow as leaders.

622

so I took it and I learned what my

strengths were, and over a couple of

623

years I started to get coached in them.

624

So I was sitting with somebody who

walked me through and helped me

625

find the evidence of those stories

in my life, like strength, those

626

strengths in my life through story.

627

Like where does this show up?

628

How do I feel?

629

What's the impact when I use this well.

630

How can I help to work with this better?

631

And over time I got trained as a coach.

632

I'm trying to think what would be

the best way to highlight, like, I'm

633

trying to connect this to the fear

parts, but as I'm thinking about like

634

what I learned about these strengths

and what I need 'cause another.

635

Part that we haven't talked about

here on this podcast yet, in coaching,

636

there's something that we call

intrinsic needs and motivations that

637

come with each one of these strengths.

638

And they're like the conditions

under which that strength can thrive.

639

And they're different

for every single one.

640

So just like if you have a cactus

and a fern, they need different

641

amounts of sun and water.

642

And if you just try to give everybody

the same thing, some of 'em, they're

643

probably actually all of 'em gonna die.

644

Like we have specific things we need.

645

So that's true of us as humans as well.

646

And.

647

In coaching, I started to learn about

these intrinsic needs and motivations

648

for each one of my strengths.

649

And I learned about some stuff

that I really need that I wasn't

650

getting in my work at that point.

651

So.

652

I used to work on a church

staff and my favorite part of

653

my job was the staff meeting.

654

Actually, like a lot of people don't

enjoy their staff meetings, but I love,

655

love, love, love working with that

team where we'd get together, we'd do

656

brainstorming, we'd come up with an

idea, we'd all like think of what we

657

could do to contribute, go off and do it

and come back and build off each other.

658

It was just like, it was really fun

to be together and to work that way.

659

And when I left that and I started

doing coaching full time, I.

660

Realize, I'm like, I'm

still with people the time.

661

I'm like one-on-one conversation deep,

like we're talking about real stuff, but

662

I'm feeling kind of like, ugh, about it.

663

Like, what's missing here?

664

And it turns out, one of my strengths is

connectedness, and one of the intrinsic

665

needs for that one is that I need to work

in interdependence with other people.

666

And in my coaching, it's

interpersonal, but it's missing

667

that interdependence piece.

668

Like . I just talk to the person

we do their coaching and then they

669

leave and someone else comes in

and I talk to them and that's it.

670

But there's no, there's no

671

collaboration happening in the same way.

672

We don't own together.

673

And I was missing that.

674

So I was so glad that I had

learned that in my coaching.

675

Like, oh, that's.

676

Why I'm feeling a little

bit wilted right now.

677

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Mm-hmm.

678

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And so I've been pretty proactive

679

in trying to find ways to

work together with people.

680

It's not different in the coaching

part of my work, but I've found

681

other ways to collaborate with

people to have a project together

682

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Hmm.

683

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

That we all have buy-in and we're doing

684

that brainstorming thing together again.

685

I need that for my life

in order for me to thrive.

686

That is a condition.

687

That must be met.

688

Um,

689

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

You come alive.

690

You come alive.

691

I,

692

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

693

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

am this, I'm the same way in that.

694

When I get to be working with a group

of people towards something great.

695

And there is, I never thought

of that co interdependence

696

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

yeah.

697

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Um, but I think a lot of us,

698

maybe it's even, especially women

like that, I wonder if that is

699

something that a lot of women need.

700

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah, I believe all humans again need it.

701

Like I think

702

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

703

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

the way we've set up society ridiculous

704

in that we think everyone needs to

have their own snowblower and their own

705

every, like, we can share these things.

706

We're made to live in interconnected

community and we have decimated

707

that in the way that we live.

708

And not all humans

709

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

710

I.

711

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

in the way that we do

712

here in the United States.

713

So we can.

714

Play with that we can invent

different ways of working together.

715

And so yes, I think that's true.

716

And then particularly for people who

have certain talents in the Clifton

717

strengths world, that is like even more

important to them to be able to thrive.

718

Where there are others who really like

having full control over this project.

719

I'm gonna do it all.

720

I know it's good, I'm done with it.

721

And I can be proud of it.

722

It's finished.

723

I don't need to wait for other

people to like do their part.

724

They get a lot of strength and

energy from working in that way.

725

So they're all different.

726

But yes, it's an important

thing to know about yourself.

727

Like, how do you like to work?

728

How are you gonna thrive best?

729

So, I encourage everyone to spend some

time like take the assessment and really

730

get coached, because just having the

report isn't as helpful as having someone

731

walk you through it and help to understand

what's really going on and look for the

732

stories from your life about how you wear

that strength and how it shows up for you.

733

I,

734

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And I would say 100%,

735

like I have done the test.

736

I've mentioned this before,

that if you look for a used

737

book of strengths Finder 2.0

738

at a used bookstore.

739

See if you can find it or if you

ever see it, look in the back to

740

see if there's a free coupon code.

741

That's how my husband and I have

done the test in the past when we

742

didn't wanna spend, I think it's

like $25 dollars for the top five

743

and 50 or something for the full.

744

But I will say it is some of

the best money I have spent.

745

But first I did it on my

own and I read through it.

746

I was like, oh, this is interesting.

747

We did it as a family, so we had my kids

took the test as well, and we got to

748

see where we were the same or different.

749

But when you sit down with a coach.

750

And you get to walk through

every single strength.

751

And then also the, not the weaknesses.

752

What's the word you used again?

753

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

patterns.

754

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

The non patterns.

755

And I've actually, I've had the

gift of doing this kind of twice.

756

I did it once when I was at a organization

and then I did it once with you.

757

And it was different both times.

758

And I loved when we sat down together.

759

Because it does help you tell

stories from your own life that where

760

you're like, oh, I see this now.

761

I see how I really thrive in here.

762

But the other thing I wanna encourage

you in is that when we have struggles

763

with self love and the voices of, I'm

not enough, or I failed, or I can't do

764

it, or whatever it is that whispers that

when you're feeling down and the enemy

765

whispers that a lot of times these non.

766

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Non

767

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Oh, why can't I remember this?

768

This non patterns, I'm blaming

peri-menopause Okay, these non patterns

769

can leave us feeling like we're not

enough or we failed, or whatever.

770

And once we begin to know ourselves, you

know, um, one of my favorite leadership.

771

Authors is John C.

772

Maxwell.

773

And his big thing, of course,

it's all biblical, is to grow

774

yourself, you have to know yourself.

775

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

that's right.

776

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And so to get out of those feelings

777

of, oh, I'm not enough because I

can't do this, and that person can

778

really coming to understand your

strengths and your non pat turns,

779

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Got it.

780

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

and the things that are kind of in

781

between there, can help realize that oh.

782

It's not that I'm not enough is

God didn't create me to do this.

783

And even the Bible, it says

plenty of times I wish I had the

784

scripture up and I'm tell it to you.

785

But it has plenty of times where

it talks about how we were created.

786

If we all had everything, then

we wouldn't need each other.

787

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right.

788

Body theology.

789

Absolutely.

790

And also, you might remember

the verse where it says

791

like, we are God's handiwork.

792

We are God's masterpiece is

another way that's translated and.

793

a Masterpiece doesn't come off an

assembly line, and it's not the

794

same as all of these other ones.

795

It's not a copy.

796

It's unique and it takes time to

create, and are a masterpiece.

797

You're not like anyone else.

798

So when you look at the and

wonder why you can't run like

799

them, you're like, I'm a duck.

800

And you know what?

801

Cheetahs are terrible underwater.

802

Like they don't swim.

803

You know, they're so it's, I

don't actually, I made that up.

804

Maybe cheetahs are great swimmers.

805

I don't know.

806

Maybe you should watch out when you're

in a river or a lake in the safari.

807

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Might get hit by a chee.

808

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

not, you know, like, , not all

809

animals are made to be in all

environments and neither are you.

810

So stop.

811

Comparing your feathers to their spots

or their scales or whatever someone else

812

has, we wouldn't expect that of them.

813

And I don't know why we insist

on expecting it of ourselves,

814

but we gotta knock it off.

815

I think that is a lie that

you are made to do everything.

816

You're not, really good at your part.

817

So go be that and be the best you can.

818

Figure out what it is that you have.

819

There's another story that I tell

in the training that I do that's

820

about how the Clifton strengths

is like reading your user manual.

821

And there might be things about

yourself that you didn't realize

822

were there they've been there

all along, you just didn't know.

823

And so in coaching, we can

figure out what those are.

824

And the story that I like to tell

with this is in my old house, our oven

825

had, um, it took like 45 minutes to

preheat, so you'd like turn it on.

826

And then you could basically go for a jog.

827

You could watch a whole episode

of television, like do whatever

828

before it would finally get

up to the right temperature.

829

And it was so frustrating.

830

And then one day the power went out

and then we had to reset it and it

831

had this like touch screen thing.

832

And as it was like coming back on,

I saw a button that had never lit up

833

before and I didn't know was there and

there was a rapid preheat function.

834

On this oven after two years of waiting

forever for this thing to heat up.

835

Turns out it was right there the whole

time and like 10 minutes flat ready to go.

836

And I just wasn't aware.

837

And so when we learn about ourselves

through things like the Clifton

838

strengths or other assessments, we

recognize like the functions that

839

are already present that we weren't

utilizing because we didn't know.

840

And once we can identify them, put

language to them, we can name it

841

and then we can aim it, claim it,

like we can really make it work

842

for us and we can show up with all

the glory that we've been given.

843

And that is a blessing to everyone.

844

So when you can figure out who

you are, what you're made for, and

845

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right.

846

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Be that like Saint Irenaus like the

847

glory of God is a human being fully

alive, when you can become fully

848

alive, that's where the magic happens.

849

So that's what I wanna

help people figure out in

850

coaching

851

is like, who are you?

852

What's your deal?

853

Like, how can we get this other stuff

854

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right.

855

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

so that you can be who you are without

856

this like play acting of trying to

be someone that you really are not.

857

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Which the world tells

858

us that we have to do.

859

St.

860

Katherine of Sienna also says, be who

you're created to be and you'll set the

861

world on fire or you're meant to be.

862

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

yes.

863

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I love that.

864

I love that quote, and I

love that you quoted St.

865

Rna.

866

Look at you.

867

Uh,

868

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

and I work with a lot of Catholics, so I'm

869

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

yeah.

870

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

but um, I hear some of it.

871

Yeah.

872

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

No, but if you are working on, or you're

873

doing something in your life and you're

constantly just not feeling alive, whether

874

it's the way you're running your house,

maybe something needs to change, or

875

whether it's you work from home or you

work at the workplace and you're not happy

876

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

877

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

and you're not enjoying what you're doing,

878

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Mm-hmm.

879

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I think it's worth, regardless, looking

880

into understanding yourself better.

881

Like what are your strengths?

882

Take the test,

883

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Mm-hmm.

884

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552: it.

885

We're gonna put Katherine's

information in the show notes.

886

If you want someone to walk you and guide

you through that, you can reach out.

887

Yeah.

888

But it is so beautiful when you

start to see, oh wow we stopped

889

comparing because we realize,

well, I wasn't created for this.

890

I was created without wings, so

I shouldn't expect myself to fly.

891

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right.

892

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I love to.

893

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

right.

894

It sounds like fun, but, uh, get on

an airplane, you know, like there

895

we can, we can still experience some

of these things and then just don't

896

expect yourself to be who you're not.

897

It's, it's so freeing when you can

let go of some of those expectations

898

that either, we're given to you as

a story that someone told you about

899

what you were supposed to be about.

900

You've just been watching other people

and you wish you were like that.

901

I'm like, sure, that sounds great.

902

But that's not your life, and they

probably are looking at you with

903

the same envy that they wish there's

something about you and your particular

904

gifting and strength that they admire.

905

And why don't we just bless

each other with it and share

906

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

907

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

of feeling that self condemnation.

908

So when you start noticing that lie coming

in, just be like, I'm not a cheetah.

909

Like just say it, whatever you gotta

say to yourself like, that's not me.

910

Who am

911

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

912

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And then go be that.

913

And you can start this like, you know,

maybe for some people, maybe like a a

914

50 or $60 assessment and the cost of

coaching might feel prohibitive for

915

you in this moment, but you can start

to pay attention just like in your

916

life to the moments that light you up.

917

Where are the places where

you feel fully alive?

918

What are the conditions

under which that's happening?

919

And maybe that's not happening very much

right now in your life and that might be

920

the reality of your current situation.

921

That is a sign unto you that it's time

to pay attention and to make a shift.

922

So think about it like whenever

in your life, as far back as you

923

can remember, what were those

times when I felt like, ah.

924

This is fun.

925

This is what I was made for.

926

Who was I with?

927

What was I doing?

928

What kind of projects was I working on?

929

What were the conditions under

which I felt like I was thriving?

930

And then chase that.

931

See if you can make one little

adjustment to a little bit more of

932

that in your day and see what happens.

933

When you start to feed

that energy, it grows.

934

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And then you're finding

935

delight, we can find delight.

936

Yeah.

937

One other quick example that came to

mind just in every day with giftings

938

and strengths is I used to go into a

house that was fully put together and

939

looked like everything had its place.

940

And everything just looked

gorgeous and it had the little

941

plants on the shelves and whatnot.

942

It was so put together, and I used

to get really jealous and I always

943

felt like I was lacking until

I, came to learn more and more.

944

Well, that's not my area of gifting.

945

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Hmm.

946

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And I'm able to walk into a

947

house now and be like, oh my

gosh, I love being in your house.

948

Because it just feels like you're walking

into an Airbnb and it feels amazing.

949

And I can also get ideas for my place.

950

My husband's actually better

at it than I am, and I had to

951

realize, okay, good to lean in.

952

But I do think, getting to understand

and know that does give you the ability

953

to say, okay, that's not my gift.

954

Well, if it's important, let's

find somebody who does have

955

that gift and let's hang out.

956

How about you come over, we'll have

a glass of wine or a cup of coffee

957

and you can gimme some ideas for

my bedroom to make it look nice.

958

You know,

959

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Yeah.

960

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552: so.

961

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

And it's gonna be most

962

comfortable when it fits you.

963

Like there are some people who

love like just the pristine

964

order everything in its place.

965

And then people who

aren't built like that.

966

Walk into that space and they feel

a little bit like, uh oh, better

967

not mess anything up in here.

968

Like, they need it to feel a

little bit more messy so that

969

they can live and relax in it.

970

So it just depends on who you are, and

you should live in a space and live in

971

a life that fits who you actually are.

972

So whatever you can do to learn a

little bit more about that and some

973

experiments to bring a little bit more

of that to life, the more fulfilled

974

you'll be, the more life you'll have.

975

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

I encourage you too to pick up the book.

976

The latest one is StrengthsFinder 2.0,

977

is that correct?

978

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Well, there's like a million, there's a

979

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

It's a million,

980

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

marriage, strengths-based

981

leadership strengths, blah.

982

I think I have like five of

them on my shelf over here.

983

So yes, there's a lot.

984

Strengths 2.0

985

I think is the most recent one that's

about just talking strictly about the

986

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

yeah.

987

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

strengths.

988

And then there's these other

ones that they, they have like.

989

that's for people who are in

sales and like, there's a lot

990

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

Right,

991

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

ways you could approach it.

992

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

right,

993

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

your, pick your poison.

994

There's something about it.

995

There's

996

michelle-hillaert_2_03-26-2026_101552:

right.

997

katherine-sikma-wadsworth--she-her-_2_03-26-2026_101552:

You can go on YouTube, put in a

998

particular strength you wanna learn about.

999

There's little videos about them.

00:44:21,434 --> 00:44:23,114

They have an app you

can get on your phone.

00:44:23,114 --> 00:44:27,159

They've really built up the

environment around this.

00:44:27,219 --> 00:44:29,204

If you are interested,

there's a lot to learn.

00:44:29,454 --> 00:44:29,664

Okay.

00:44:29,664 --> 00:44:33,504

So yeah, this might be like a totally

other thing, but as I was thinking

00:44:33,504 --> 00:44:36,954

with the questions that you were asking

about living fearlessly and like dealing

00:44:36,954 --> 00:44:38,544

with fear, this is what came to mind.

00:44:38,594 --> 00:44:42,794

So along with getting to know yourself,

I have found it to be particularly

00:44:42,794 --> 00:44:47,969

helpful in dealing with my fear

and my anxiety to get to know my

00:44:47,969 --> 00:44:51,409

anxiety, to actually befriend anxiety.

00:44:51,409 --> 00:44:56,059

Which sounds crazy because usually most

of us just like want it to go away, right?

00:44:56,059 --> 00:44:59,359

Like, I don't wanna feel like that

anymore, and it's hard to deal with.

00:44:59,389 --> 00:45:02,599

There are like some of the are

difficult emotions to feel.

00:45:03,169 --> 00:45:06,679

And so what I find when I just

try to shut it down and push

00:45:06,679 --> 00:45:08,749

it away, it just gets louder.

00:45:09,229 --> 00:45:13,129

Been learning a lot about something called

Internal Family Systems or parts work in

00:45:13,129 --> 00:45:16,459

which we recognize that there are like

parts of ourselves that are, they're

00:45:16,459 --> 00:45:19,549

here and they are trying to help us.

00:45:20,359 --> 00:45:25,249

Even if their help isn't helpful, they are

trying to do something that is , to help.

00:45:25,674 --> 00:45:26,874

Help us in some way.

00:45:26,904 --> 00:45:30,924

And so I find when my anxiety

comes up, when it gets really loud,

00:45:31,824 --> 00:45:35,634

trying to tell me that I need to

protect myself from something.

00:45:35,694 --> 00:45:38,814

And it learned somewhere in my

life that this, whatever I'm

00:45:38,814 --> 00:45:42,384

experiencing is not safe, it's

dangerous, and we need to get away.

00:45:44,184 --> 00:45:47,094

that's actually a really

helpful adaptive response.

00:45:47,314 --> 00:45:49,444

When you, like, if you

burn your hand once.

00:45:50,179 --> 00:45:52,789

Next time you're near fire, you're

gonna feel a little bit scared.

00:45:52,789 --> 00:45:55,729

And that fear is to protect you

from burning your hand again.

00:45:55,729 --> 00:45:57,019

Like that, it makes sense.

00:45:57,019 --> 00:46:01,079

It's trying to do that, it doesn't

make sense to be petrified of fear

00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:03,989

in every situation to the point

where you can't light a match to

00:46:04,049 --> 00:46:05,159

start a campfire or something.

00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:06,899

Not all fire is as dangerous.

00:46:07,479 --> 00:46:10,089

So it needs some help to figure out like.

00:46:10,674 --> 00:46:14,454

What's actually a helpful response

to the fear that I'm feeling.

00:46:15,234 --> 00:46:18,284

I've been learning a lot

about befriending my anxiety.

00:46:18,284 --> 00:46:20,714

Instead of pushing away,

inviting it to come a little

00:46:20,714 --> 00:46:23,264

bit closer and talking to it.

00:46:23,474 --> 00:46:24,754

So, I see that you're here.

00:46:26,014 --> 00:46:26,554

Welcome.

00:46:27,664 --> 00:46:29,314

you for trying to help me.

00:46:29,404 --> 00:46:29,794

Trying.

00:46:29,914 --> 00:46:31,204

Thanks for trying to keep me safe.

00:46:31,534 --> 00:46:32,164

Tell me about it.

00:46:33,514 --> 00:46:34,594

What are we afraid of right now?

00:46:34,594 --> 00:46:35,134

Like what?

00:46:35,194 --> 00:46:39,604

What are you concerned is about to

happen to us and let it tell me the

00:46:39,604 --> 00:46:44,554

whole story and then help it to calm

down a little bit when it feels heard.

00:46:44,564 --> 00:46:48,194

If you can imagine like a 4-year-old

coming up to you and they wanna tell you

00:46:48,194 --> 00:46:51,824

something, if you just keep pushing them

away, like, shut up, shut up, shut up.

00:46:51,824 --> 00:46:52,454

I don't wanna hear it.

00:46:52,814 --> 00:46:55,394

They're just gonna yell

louder because it's important

00:46:55,454 --> 00:46:56,354

that you hear what they say.

00:46:56,774 --> 00:46:59,774

But if you can stop and get on

their level and be like, Hey.

00:47:00,269 --> 00:47:00,869

What's going on?

00:47:01,709 --> 00:47:03,089

Give them your full attention.

00:47:03,959 --> 00:47:10,049

incredible how much it calms down, when

it feels heard, when it believes that

00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:15,479

you understand how bad it is and that you

can be trusted to do something about it.

00:47:16,619 --> 00:47:18,834

It can stop screaming

at you and it's crazy.

00:47:20,354 --> 00:47:24,494

To befriend your anxiety, but that is

what I have found to be so helpful and

00:47:24,494 --> 00:47:26,804

to just unblend from it a little bit.

00:47:27,374 --> 00:47:28,574

I don't, did you see the movie Inside

00:47:28,769 --> 00:47:29,639

Yes.

00:47:29,849 --> 00:47:31,229

My kids love that movie.

00:47:31,784 --> 00:47:32,594

it's the best.

00:47:32,644 --> 00:47:34,594

It is a kid's movie, but man, they're

00:47:34,819 --> 00:47:35,179

Mm-hmm.

00:47:35,584 --> 00:47:35,704

it.

00:47:35,924 --> 00:47:38,324

If you guys have not seen it,

please go watch it right now.

00:47:38,694 --> 00:47:43,494

But the idea is like there's a control

panel in your life and or in this

00:47:43,494 --> 00:47:46,464

little girl's head in the movie and

there's all these different emotions

00:47:46,464 --> 00:47:49,194

and they're all trying to take

control of the panel and run the show.

00:47:50,034 --> 00:47:54,474

And basically accurate

for how our brains work.

00:47:54,774 --> 00:47:58,314

But we, what we need to do is cultivate

like a chief, the one who is gonna

00:47:58,374 --> 00:48:02,214

be in control and who can hear from

each one of these other perspectives

00:48:02,424 --> 00:48:06,654

and decide what to do and let them

trust that you can control the panel.

00:48:07,084 --> 00:48:10,504

So just make a little bit of space

instead of being like, hi, I'm anxious.

00:48:10,554 --> 00:48:14,084

When you are anxious, you

and anxiety have become one.

00:48:14,184 --> 00:48:18,294

It's very hard to deal with

anything at that point, but if you

00:48:18,294 --> 00:48:19,644

can just be like, Ooh, I notice.

00:48:20,649 --> 00:48:22,179

I'm feeling anxious right now.

00:48:23,919 --> 00:48:27,359

what does anxiety feel like and

try to locate that in the body

00:48:27,389 --> 00:48:28,829

and where is that coming up?

00:48:29,669 --> 00:48:35,789

you can start to like when it's

trying to run the show and then

00:48:35,939 --> 00:48:37,079

give it a little bit more space.

00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:40,739

Even be like, notice

that anxiety is present.

00:48:41,894 --> 00:48:44,414

It is not the totality of who I am.

00:48:44,804 --> 00:48:48,434

And when we can create that

tiny bit of space in between, we

00:48:48,434 --> 00:48:50,834

can have much better outcomes.

00:48:50,834 --> 00:48:52,544

Like it doesn't need to run the show.

00:48:52,884 --> 00:48:56,244

But I can hear it and sometimes it's

telling me something that I maybe

00:48:56,244 --> 00:49:00,684

didn't want to know, but actually is

really important for my wellbeing.

00:49:02,449 --> 00:49:05,574

I notice it comes up around like health

stuff, like I'm a cancer survivor.

00:49:06,384 --> 00:49:09,324

Every time I feel a twinge,

I'm like, it's back.

00:49:09,324 --> 00:49:09,534

You know?

00:49:09,534 --> 00:49:12,054

And I, it's the full panic

and I can be like, okay, wait,

00:49:13,074 --> 00:49:14,004

what do you wanna tell me?

00:49:14,694 --> 00:49:16,734

You're worried that we're

gonna have cancer again.

00:49:17,694 --> 00:49:18,234

I hear you.

00:49:18,234 --> 00:49:20,664

I understand why you're afraid about that.

00:49:20,664 --> 00:49:21,204

That was really

00:49:21,304 --> 00:49:21,724

Mm-hmm.

00:49:21,954 --> 00:49:22,554

time that happened.

00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:24,409

What shall we do?

00:49:24,439 --> 00:49:27,529

Like, okay, maybe we need to go to

the doctor and just get it checked.

00:49:27,619 --> 00:49:31,519

So I'll make an appointment, I will

go in, we'll get the scan, and then

00:49:31,519 --> 00:49:33,049

we can know what needs to happen next.

00:49:33,049 --> 00:49:35,419

And it's like, okay,

she's not gonna ignore me.

00:49:35,469 --> 00:49:37,419

She's paying attention to this thing that.

00:49:38,229 --> 00:49:39,759

causing me anxiety.

00:49:40,129 --> 00:49:43,969

But I don't need to like, pull my hair

out and have a full blown panic attack.

00:49:44,659 --> 00:49:47,899

can just notice that that's

here and figure out what to do.

00:49:48,259 --> 00:49:51,249

So I found that to be really

helpful, this practice of pulling

00:49:51,249 --> 00:49:52,929

it in instead of trying to push it

00:49:53,004 --> 00:49:53,424

Yeah.

00:49:53,859 --> 00:49:56,709

Um, so I just wanted to share like that's

00:49:56,709 --> 00:49:58,839

been my experience of trying to deal with

00:49:59,154 --> 00:50:01,494

And I do love how you just kind of

00:50:01,554 --> 00:50:09,384

threw in there that you're a cancer

survivor, because that tells me that you

00:50:10,464 --> 00:50:17,409

have had to overcome and work through

more than likely some pretty big fears.

00:50:17,979 --> 00:50:18,459

Yeah.

00:50:18,609 --> 00:50:18,999

Yep.

00:50:19,449 --> 00:50:19,809

Yeah.

00:50:20,889 --> 00:50:21,219

Yeah.

00:50:21,519 --> 00:50:22,569

And it's real.

00:50:22,629 --> 00:50:28,119

And that anxiety comes up, like

it's not, um, it's not ridiculous.

00:50:28,119 --> 00:50:31,719

It's not, something that can

just be easily dismissed.

00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,009

Like, no, that that's a real.

00:50:34,134 --> 00:50:35,604

It's something I should pay attention to.

00:50:35,994 --> 00:50:37,134

So I'm gonna do it.

00:50:37,164 --> 00:50:37,824

I'm gonna hear you.

00:50:37,824 --> 00:50:39,174

I'm gonna get down on that level.

00:50:39,174 --> 00:50:41,274

Like, tell me, what are

you afraid of right now?

00:50:41,274 --> 00:50:44,454

To listen to my body because

it's telling me stuff.

00:50:44,514 --> 00:50:49,874

And when I try to shut that off and ignore

what my body's trying to tell me, that's

00:50:49,874 --> 00:50:51,884

where we get at odds with each other.

00:50:51,944 --> 00:50:54,394

And where I felt like

my body's betraying me.

00:50:54,399 --> 00:50:54,529

It's like.

00:50:55,374 --> 00:50:56,094

betraying me too.

00:50:56,094 --> 00:50:57,864

You're not listening to me

when I'm telling you there's

00:50:57,864 --> 00:50:59,574

something that's not right here.

00:50:59,664 --> 00:51:01,254

And I was like, I don't wanna know that.

00:51:01,254 --> 00:51:02,904

I'm just like, it scares me too much.

00:51:03,184 --> 00:51:04,744

I was flooded by that fear.

00:51:04,744 --> 00:51:08,334

So to get to a point

where I am able now to.

00:51:08,749 --> 00:51:12,469

Hear it and to honor

it, pay attention to it.

00:51:12,739 --> 00:51:17,499

It doesn't need to keep me from doing

anything in my life, but it's giving

00:51:17,499 --> 00:51:20,979

me helpful information that I really

wanna value and pay attention to.

00:51:21,459 --> 00:51:25,159

And so I have learned to

be friends with my fear.

00:51:26,254 --> 00:51:27,124

I love that.

00:51:28,294 --> 00:51:31,984

I love that because I know, being

perimenopausal, I've started just

00:51:31,984 --> 00:51:35,954

like, once you start to recognize

it at what it is, like I get a lot

00:51:35,954 --> 00:51:40,004

of anxiety and it's just chemical.

00:51:40,874 --> 00:51:43,394

I have like the, I don't it, it

depends on the morning, but I'll

00:51:43,394 --> 00:51:46,244

wake up and I'll just be filled

with anxiety and I'll look at Trent.

00:51:46,274 --> 00:51:47,984

I'll be like, I got this going on.

00:51:48,524 --> 00:51:49,844

It is just chemical.

00:51:49,874 --> 00:51:50,804

There's nothing else.

00:51:50,804 --> 00:51:54,754

And so finding ways to help battle

that, but being able to step aside

00:51:54,754 --> 00:51:59,884

from it helps to not be, like you

said, overcome by it, you know?

00:52:00,244 --> 00:52:00,304

Yeah.

00:52:01,024 --> 00:52:01,174

Yeah.

00:52:01,174 --> 00:52:02,974

And just like put a little

hand on your heart and be like,

00:52:02,974 --> 00:52:04,294

okay babe, what's going on?

00:52:04,324 --> 00:52:05,854

What are we worried about right now?

00:52:06,514 --> 00:52:09,664

All right, here, we have some

other resources available.

00:52:09,664 --> 00:52:12,814

Like I'm, I've been afraid

that X, Y, Z is gonna blow up.

00:52:12,814 --> 00:52:13,924

I'm not gonna have la la la, la.

00:52:13,924 --> 00:52:14,974

Like, hear that whole tape.

00:52:14,974 --> 00:52:17,824

Be like, okay, I hear you all.

00:52:17,824 --> 00:52:18,694

What else is true?

00:52:19,174 --> 00:52:21,364

I have these resources,

I have this support.

00:52:21,994 --> 00:52:23,404

Here's what I can do about that.

00:52:23,454 --> 00:52:23,934

Alright.