Dana Williams-Johnson, or DWJ is a doctoral student and professor of marketing at Howard University. She is also a passionate knitter of colourful sweaters for humans and very small dogs! She also writes a column for Modern Daily Knitting.

Dana and I speak about how her love of learning brought her to a knitting class and how she keeps on building on that knowledge year after year. She also speaks about how in the past year she has been recovering from multiple serious pulmonary embolisms, and how she has managed periods of not knitting.

View the transcript for this episode on the Captivate Player

You can follow Dana's blog at her website Yards of Happiness – A blog about knitting and things that bring me joy.

Instagram Dana/DWJ (@callmedwj) • Instagram photos and videos

Find out more about Dr Mia Hobbs, the Why I Knit Podcast and read the blog: Home | Therapeutic Knitting

Instagram: Dr Mia Hobbs (@knittingistherapeutic) • Instagram photos and videos

Yarns and Patterns mentioned in this episode:

Ravelry:

a_simmetrie pattern by cecilia flori

Angelina pullover Ravelry:

Angelina Pullover pattern by Mary Anne Benedetto

La bien Aimee La Bien

Aimée (labienaimee.com)

Mentioned in this episode:

Knitting for Self-Care at Christmas

Visit our website to download the FREE bonus episode of Self-Care One Stitch at a Time focussed on Christmas. Download it now at https://creativerestoration.org/christmas/

Hello, and welcome to the why I knit podcast. My name

is Dr. Mia Hobbs, and I'm a clinical psychologist who's

passionate about knitting and its benefits for our mental

health. Each week on the podcast, I interview a different

knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their well

being. This is the last episode of Series one, and I'm very

lucky to be joined by Dana Williams Johnson or DW J, who is

a Professor of Marketing and a passionate knitter of sweaters

for humans and very small dogs. You can find out more about Dana

by reading her blog at www dot yards of happiness.com. She's

also on Instagram at call me DW J. You can find a link to Dana's

blog, and any of the yarns and patterns we discussed in the

show notes.

Hi, Dana, welcome to the podcast.

Hello, hello.

So I always start with asking about where your

story with knitting began.

Um, so I learned it's only been about 11 years I think. I,

I've always been crafty. And but never I've never done anything

really with yarn before I can sew, a big papercraft person, I

paint place for a long time. And, but I didn't know anybody

who knit that or crochet. In fact, actually, I didn't know

someone crochet but she never crochet in front of me. And so I

just never my best friend I find out later on crochet. Like,

what, um, so I started this new job. And I kind of needed I was

at that phase in my life where I hadn't figured out 100% still

what I really wanted to do, I think I was, I'm a late bloomer,

in terms of career, I'm good at lots of things. But there was

nothing that like my husband is an engineer has always known and

wanted to be an engineer and absolutely loves his job, and I

never had that in my life. Until I started teaching. And so I was

like, Well, I'm doing this job. And it's pay is great. hours are

easy, like, I'm learning some new stuff, but I need something

really creative. So I got one of those Groupon deals were like,

discounted to get. And it was for Knitting Lessons in a

knitting shop in DC that doesn't exist anymore. And I said to my

mom, like, I think I'm gonna take Knitting Lessons. And I

always tell the story, because she said to me, you don't need

another craft. You don't need to learn nothing. You don't need to

spend money, on anything. I was like rude. And then, like a week

after I said that, she was like, Can You knit me this hat? You

literally just said to me, like, I assume you ignore me like

always. Okay. So I signed up for lessons.

And it took a little bit for me to kind of get it. But once I

got it, I was hooked. And that was kind of it for me. And I had

a teacher who really like, like, I was an intro knitting class,

but it learned very quickly how to do cables and knitting in the

round. Like, she was kind of really aggressive.

But I think it kind of helped give me a little bit of

confidence, because you just kind of go into like, well, I

guess I can do this, like, I can do anything. Um, but I also took

it upon myself to like, usually once a year, I take class

because of that. So every year for the last year, usually at my

local yarn shop, I sign up for some type of class, to learn

some new skills, some new thing, or if I want, like when I wanted

to get into sweater knitting, I took a intro sweater knitting

class, I can ask all the questions.

And so for because I'm realised I'm nerdy in that way. And then

I love education. I mean, um, and so if that's what knitting

is, for me, it's there's a, like, before you started

recording we were talking about, there's always something that

you can learn. So I don't feel bad when I'm like, Oh, I haven't

learned that yet. Because I'm like, I'll get there. Like I've

been saying forever. I really want to do something with

intarsia it hasn't happened yet, will it? Yeah.

I think it would just be I have to find the right project that

has excited me to say

it's such a great idea to do a class of something

new once a year. So is it always knitting related? Or could it be

something completely random that you've never done before? Like,

ceramics or

For me it's always been knitting, okay. Like when I took

a class a year, but I am also one of those people who

encourages people to take classes. So like

be away from me for four to six hours. So he was like, learn to

play golf with me. So I signed up into Clemson. So I play golf.

Um, so anytime there's something we're like, Hmm, I love Creole

food. I love to cook. So when we travelled to New Orleans, I take

cooking lessons.

It's the thing of, I don't know how to do it. But there's

usually somebody out there who can teach me Yeah.

So you love to learn.

I love to learn. So like, lets take advantage of that.

Like if somebody is willing, someone, I'm not the best Sewer.

And I have a follower who is in the area, an older woman who I

see all the time and help her out with stuff. And she's an

amazing Sewer. And I happen to say one day on Instagram, like,

I would love to make a quilted coat. Like, I wish my skills are

up to par. And she was like, I have a long arm quilting machine

at my house. So it's just like, I'm 100% can make that with you.

She's like, I can help you. So I'm all about like, Oh, if

you're willing to teach me. I'm all for it.

Yeah. Oh, that's great. And was there something

special about knitting that this? I mean, I don't know if it

is your main craft now. But was there something particular that

you think that hooked you in to it?

I think I am a person who I enjoy being alone. And I can do

it my by myself. And I don't, you can literally just be me in

a ball yarn and needles, and I can take it anywhere.

And so for me, I think that was the thing that hasn't made it my

main craft that I always have some knitting with me. Yeah. And

I can whip out a hat or cowl. Or maybe I'm working on a sweater

or you know, like, so it's constantly with me, my students

know when I'm proctoring exams, I walk around the room while I'm

knitting. And it's, it's soothing for me, it calms

nerves, it helps.

I think I've always had anxiety since I was a kid. So I think

for me, it can also be um and a good way to kind of relieve some

of my anxiety.

I talked once about how when my dad died I was knitting

something, when you know, people come to your house and like pay

their respects and all that. And instead of asking the obvious

questions about how are you feeling and loss when you know

you feel horrible. So they asked me about what I was knitting.

And it made it a little bit easier to have conversations and

to be present with people instead of focusing on that

thing that was kind of weighing you down.

Yeah. And does it matter what you knit? Like, is

all knitting equal? Or does it make a difference? What it is?

I don't think it matters. I mean, I have an affinity for

sweaters.

Like thats My you know, I mean, I tell you, every knitter has a

thing. I don't get people who knit socks like that. Just, I

have absolutely zero.

But what is

it about socks? Is it the process or the end result?

I love and here's the thing I love a knit sock? Yeah. And I

have friends who knit me thought and I'm giving it five gifts. I

have absolutely zero desire to knit a sock for myself. I just

don't. And as much as I knit and make. I think it's the tiny

needles and the tiny yarn.

It's not appealing. I would buy a sock machine before I would

knit.

Okay, that's interesting. So is a bit about

the process?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would totally like I've looked at

whenever I see somebody was really gorgeous sock knitting

machines I wanna do that. She's like well, my not gonna knit a

sock. Okay. fortunately, I have a really good girlfriend who has

given me like a couple pairs of socks. Yeah, like, as long as I

have good friends. It's fine.

dYeah, you don't need to knit them yourself. Yeah, so

sweaters are your main love. Would you say

sweaters are my main love? Yeah. And I associate you with

some with some bright coloured like combinations of colours

like

it. I think it's that colour is such a mood booster and so like

this is the audio podcast but you can see me in . You can See

my house? And there's a lot of artwork, um, and growing up, my

parents always encouraged that in me, because I always would

draw and paint. And, you know, I remember being a kid and getting

to pick the paint colours and the carpet colours for the wall.

My mom was like, I hate it. And my dad was like, but it's her

room

so they encourages that form of self expression for

you.

Yeah. He was always like, but it's her room. It's her one

little space. And it really makes her happy. So let us just

let her have that. Um, and I know, my mom. Never. It was

always just a minor I parent and it's funny because I grew up in

a house. I think my parents have really great taste, but it's

very classic and very, like neutral than me. I'm like, I

want to paint this wall teal. Yeah. And my ceilings are mint

and it's, um, fortunately, my husband kind of just goes with

it like, sure. Dana loves colour. Um, but I think wearing

all black, like, when I wear all black to work people have asked,

Are you okay, whats wrong.

Because it is so rare. I went years not owning a pair of black

pants,

I can't get through this. Um, and I just think it makes you

your wardrobe way happier. I am sometimes envious of like people

who have like, a colour palette and are like, I wear like these

five colours, because my wardrobe is essentially a

rainbow. I'm always like, I'll figure out some combos today.

But I just think it makes me way happier to knit things.

Especially rainbows. Like I love a good rainbow. So to knit

things that have so much kind of joy and levity to them.

So it sounds like that affects your mood while

you're making the garment. But also when you then get to wear

it.

Yeah yarn is beautiful, I think Yeah. Especially indie

dyed skeins are like little works of art. And I got recently

I bought myself a sweater quantity for Christmas of the La

Bien Aimee confetti yarn that

yeah.

Whoa, a little bit. Yeah. And I, I asked people for like

suggestions for patterns and stuff online. I know when I

think about it in the day, like, I just want something that's

gonna showcase how beautiful that yarn is. And and that you

can see all the little flecks and I don't want that to get

lost.

Yeah. Did you decide on a pattern?

I'm not 100% I'm also like, I have so much yarn and so many

patterns and projects that I'm considering or thinking about

and my hand is a little academic life in all my typing is not

helping

Oh, okay.

So I'm trying to get my hand a little bit of rest, as

I'm like halfway through a sweater from my husband. I just

want to make this the body on this sweater but my hand like no

mam, we're not doing it

That must be quite difficult, then if you can't

knit as much as you'd like to.

I think there's well this year I have knit the least in

that and learn and a lot of it was I've been I've been ill. And

then because I'd had illness. And I had I had multiple

pulmonary embolisms, um, and because of that, I, I have

insane fatigue sometimes. And so I literally will get through the

day. And it's like, I'm just glad that I made it home and I'm

still standing. And then I tell my husband like I'm just a

potato on the couch like I can't do anything because I haven't

knit as much. I had a bit of a brief moment in November where I

felt super like knitting energised. And then once

Thanksgiving hit. And I had multiple papers. And then I just

finished comps so much typing and I know every year all the

typing affects my joints and all that so I have to be mindful of

that because I tell people like it isn't necessarily about being

an academic writing. I want to be able to knit.

Yeah, yeah, does it. I mean, I feel like I would find

it difficult to not be able to do the, the thing that like you

said, kind of gives me joy and makes me feel calmer. If I'm

stressed Maybe you're more used to managing that.

Um, I'll say that. So this year has changed my perspective

on a lot of things. I mean, I'm fairly young, I'm 43. And you

don't expect to have a major life event at 43.

mmmm

And, I mean, I was essentially told, what I came in

with is what most people die from. When you find out we hear

people die from pulmonary embolism, and disability because

of the level of embolisms, that I had had a massive one,

restricting blood flow right out of my heart, so my body wasn't

getting enough oxygen. And then my lungs were riddled with clots

like, riddled. So for me to have made it as far as I had before

being hospitalised was kind of miraculous. And so I'd say about

two weeks before I went to hospital,

I'd stopped knitting. And I also stopped talking as much which is

hard to do when you're a professor but I talked only when

I had to, and found ways to really engage students in my

classroom to do the talking so that I wouldn't have to. And so

I kind of switched over a little bit and had started working in

polymer clay.

And which is a medium that I worked on before. But I had seen

some fun things on Instagram, I wanted to make like jewellery

and things like that. So I kind of switched over, because I

realised, now I did not have enough oxygen in my body. So I

did not have the brainpower to read a knitting pattern.

Which I couldn't, I didn't know that at the time. Um, and

Polymer Clay don't follow patterns, or you don't, I could

just sit down at the table and make whatever. And so when you

realise after going through all that, like when I was in

hospital, I legit was just trying to survive, and, and

you're just kind of there. And, you know, people are like, Oh,

I'm terrified of needles, and I hate all that. You, when you

have someone slice into your neck artery while you're awake,

anything is possible.

And you stop being afraid of certain things. And so I had to

I had to come to the realisation when I came out of hospital, how

sick I was, and how long the recovery I had had. So they give

you about a year before you are expected to feel normal. And I

spent three months of the summer, essentially waiting for

my heart to go back to normal, which meant a lot of rest. A lot

of naps. And so my husband I think was the person who noted

like, a couple weeks out of the hospital, I finally picked

Polymer clear. And so I saw him like grinning, and I'm like what

he goes, you're just being creative. And I'm happy about

that. Like, I haven't seen this in weeks. he's like, so this is

positive. And I would look at my knitting and I would want to do

it.

Your blood oxygen levels aren't still normal. So clearly, you're

not. And like if people were like, how are you in grad school

and teaching? And I was like, Well, things, I stopped doing

certain things because I couldn't, I wasn't functioning.

So I think this year, I realised like, I have to have patience

with myself. Yeah, i'm a fairly patient person. But I'm also

very efficient and like I do things for myself. So learning

to be more patient with myself has been something that I've

dealt with this year. And now I'm getting frustrated when I

can't do the things I want to do, because there's so many

things that I can do now that I couldn't do six months ago.

Yeah. So you're really focusing on the process

of recovery and trying to give yourself time for that.

And sometimes you have to remind yourself of that, like,

Yeah, we had to travel and do things and I was exhausted. But

I was like, but you know what, two months ago, I would not have

been able to walk up that hill.

Hmm.

And so let's be happy that I walked up that hill today.

And, and me and my husband is great at reminding me of those

little things and being like, Oh, you've done so much better

like, because I think he knows me so intimately and has seen me

at the absolute lowest in the hospital. So he knows like, this

is progress. So eventually, like I was hospitalised early May. I

think I started knitting again. About six weeks out so mid June

into July. So that was, that was a while.

Yeah.

I was like, okay, yeah, do it. And then I will go. Let me

read the instructions. Let me just read it through. And now

still doesn't make sense yet. So me give myself time. So it's

about it's been about patience for me.

Yeah. And I guess one of the things that when we talk

about therapeutic knitting one of the I think the reasons we

think knitting is helpful is because you can break it down

into quite small steps. And it kind of makes it more

accessible, I think, in some ways. So for example, if

someone's feeling really low, or like you, when you were

struggling to get back in, that you could do a teeny tiny

amount, I suppose. Unlike other, it might be hard to start, I

don't know much about painting, but to start painting and only

paint a tiny piece of a canvas or something. Whereas knitting,

like if you're doing a couple of stitches, or like winding a ball

of yarn, you are still making progress towards the end thing,

even if it's in a very small increment of what you can manage

in a given day, I suppose.

Yeah, I mean, even for me, when I wasn't on pre embolisms.

Even if I could just do a row at night, I will be like, I feel

accomplished. Like I got at least I got in a couple stitches

tonight. Before I went to bed, like it was a long day, I just

want to let something go. Let me just get a couple rows in and

then I'll feel a little bit better. Yeah. So I do think that

is part of the beauty of it is that you kind of constantly

working on this thing. And to me, I think it's all still like,

it's all a little bit of being an artist and a work of art. I

definitely think of knitting is an art form. And

I was gonna ask you about that as somebody who has

an art kind of background about whether knitting is an art form

for you, because I never quite know for myself?

No, I think it is I think we all you and I can pick the

exact same pattern.

Yeah.

And interpret in so many different ways. From the yarn

choices to maybe you make your sweater with long sleeves, and

I'm going to go short, maybe you decided you want to in some

waist shaping, or some bust darts. Or I'm like now I want to

make it oversized, or you're like I want this to be really

fitted. I think

it is such an individual thing. And we each get to put our own

spin on it. Like I love I love because people always like oh,

do you should design patterns? No, I love other people writing

patterns and their designs and the vision in the ideas that

they have. And then how I get to interpret that from

Yeah. And without doing the maths.

Without doing all that I don't want to do grading one of

my girlfriends to do that. And I'm like no, and I'm and we made

her make us design a pattern for us for Rhinebeck with you. Like

make us a sweater. Thank you. And she did all the work.

Yeah, the closest I've ever got was actually this

sweater that I'm wearing now, which is a like, you know, Tin

Can knits Strange Brew.

Oh, yeah,

but I just added these kind of like snowflakes to

make it a bit more, you know,

I like it though

Christmassy, thank you. But there was quite a lot

of maths involved. And that was a sense of achievement. I got a

bit different than the way I normally get a sense of

achievement from knitting. But that was probably enough as it

happened. For me.

I have some books and some formulas. So sometimes I will. I

love saddle, shoulders. Okay. Yeah. Not a bunch of people make

patterns like that. So I will often do that for myself. And

like I have kind of a standard pattern and again, and so people

are like, oh, you should and I'm like I'm going off of bits and

pieces from a book and slicing things together. Yeah. I'm not

designing this. Like I can make anything from my bust size.

Yeah. You want to ask me to make it for somebody else? No, but

it's my bust size. I got you.

Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. I'm interested in the

thing you said about patience. Because I think I certainly I

don't know whether you do people, lots of people say

you're you're much more patient than I am. I couldn't wouldn't

ever have the patience for knitting, and associate patience

with knitting. And it sounds like you've felt like you've had

to use a lot of patience in your recovery. I wonder whether you

feel like patience is something knitters have, did you get more

patient through knitting or is that just something people say?

Something people say because I think if you want

something you will be patient for it. A lot of things that you

want or need don't aren't instantaneous. I also think and

because I deal with students that we're in a culture right

now, instant gratification and immediacy, you know, students

are always asking like, Well, how did you all do such as that

for you and your undergrad? I'm like, well, first of all, we

didn't have Ubers. I couldn't call a con man, like, I had to

make a plan. We had to figure these things out. We didn't all

have cell phones. Um, so I think I am patient in that respect.

I've always kind of been a patient person when it comes to

things that I want. And so I think when people see other

knitters and are, like, oh, I can never do it. I think people

are just intimidated. It seems like it's this really complex

thing, because I remember seeing it for the first time, like, how

long do people get it to do that, and it become this thing,

but, um, I mean, it just takes a little bit of practice. And then

I'll have to tell my students that do. I wasn't a sweater

knitter on day one, everybody makes a crappy potholder or a

scarf with really big holes in it. Yeah. And you have to accept

that, um, and especially like, I'm, I am a person that's very

much a perfectionist. I can be a little bit anal about things.

And so I had to let that go in knitting,

okay.

And that that took a little bit for me, but to realise like,

the perfection is in the practice. And then I'm better

now. Because I know how I have more confidence, I can fix a

dropped stitch, I can see my mistakes and frog back. And I

think the beauty in it is that if I really really mess it up, I

just unravel it. Yeah. And sometimes I think it's people

like, it's just such a waste of time. But it isn't, if you learn

from it and like, again, I go back to like, I like learning.

Yeah. And so as long as I'm learning and getting something

out of it, then there's joy to be had at that. And I think we

missed that. Sometimes I have a class that I teach students, and

I'm like, the goal is for you to make mistakes, and learn from

the mistake that you make. Because it's the problem solving

class so I'm, like, you all are so afraid that you're gonna give

me the wrong answer that you just don't do it. Like you won't

show me the work you want. And the goal is, I want to see

multiple tries, I want to see how you attempted to do it the

first time to then figure out where you went wrong. And if you

don't make the mistake, I can't help you like I can't. And so I

often have to, and I had a really good semester with them

this year, because I really kept pressing like, no, no, I want to

see the mistakes. Like I want to see the mistakes, I need to see

all the work. But I think that's the really hard part for people

that to kind of get to them mistakes or how we learn like

it's okay, you don't have to be perfect. And because we're in

such a social media perfection, ultra filtered world. Um, it

makes it hard for people to understand or process that and

I'm like, that's how you grow. It's ok.

And I think certainly, that's something that

knitting has helped me with. And I think in the therapeutic

knitting groups I've been running we have been focusing on

like, the worst thing that can happen, but you still got unless

you get the scissors out, you still got what you started with,

which is a ball of yarn and the needles. And, and that is a kind

of, in a way, a place for making safe mistakes. Like because how

wrong can it possibly go with knitting?

My husband is really good. Because he knows me and I'm

anxious and I will be like, when we first got a dog, and like

we'd be late or stuck in traffic, and he'll be like,

Okay, what is what's the worst thing that can happen? Now, like

what should poop in the house? And he goes, Okay, so how do we

how do you fix them? Like, why me? I would just clean it up

like that. Okay, so let that go. And understand that. If we're

late, she might have accident, but we have the tools and means

to clean it up. Yeah, and she'll still be fine. Like, she's not

gonna starve to death. We're 30 minutes late coming home. Um,

he's like, she'll probably be even more excited when you walk

in the door. So he, he is very good at refocusing me and saying

like, Okay, tell me the worst thing that can happen. And how

then, do you have how do you overcome that hurdle once you

get there, which is one of the things I did do a lot with, like

before school started after having kind of been out of the

game for three months. He was like, tell me all the things

that you're afraid of. And then let's figure out how we resolve

Those fears. Um, and that was a great exercise for him to sit

down and be like, well, these are the things that make me

nervous. Okay. Think about solutions and how we make it

better. Or maybe only the practice if he things before

school starts. So you feel more comfortable like that. And so I

think that's how I feel to a knitting is that. Alright, this

cable looks insane. And I'm a little nervous. Let me practice.

Yeah, let me let me try this out. You know, that's what I

tell people too with swatches like, that's why swatches are

helpful. Yeah, give you a chance to see how something's gonna

react or respond. And then you can figure out if thats the

right needle, if that's the right technique, or maybe it's

not the project for you at that time.

Yeah. And do you have more than one thing on the go at

once if you got projects for different?

Always!

And are they different, for different I don't

know, moods or different situations in your life where

you need a different type of project.

I'm usually I have multiple sweaters going on at once.

Because they require different things at different times. So I

like a sweater will have like, a lot of stockinette in the body

where I don't have to really look that great for just some

mindless knitting. Whereas if I'm just starting a sweater,

maybe I have to pay a little bit more attention to my increases,

I'm building out the yoke. Two colour brioche when I'm really

stressed, because it makes me take my mind off of whatever it

is that I was thinking about and makes me focus on the project at

hand.

So you'll gravitate towards something more

complicated if you're really stressed, and you need to kind

of Yeah, same

yeah, it helps me recenter and say like, I need to not

think about this for 30 minutes. Let me pick this up. Because

then I'm gonna have to really look at this because I don't

want to mess this up. Yeah.

Yeah. It's kind of a bit of an escape from stress.

Yeah, and then just have stuff like I get. I get in the

mood. I'm like, I just really wanted to knit a colourwork

sweater. Yeah. Or I just really want to use the yarn. Um, and

I've had moments where like, yarn will arrive and I'm like,

well, casting on something else immediately. Um, I actually got

some, some boucle yarn yesterday. And I'm like, Well,

I'm gonna make a hat.it's cold,

yeah. Yeah. I always ask about a significant knitting

project.

Um, I always love. I always love for my mom

for your mom.

She always, always always gets excited. No, it can be a

wrap can be a sweater, it doesn't matter.

She's not a knitter.

No, no, no one else in my family is, um, so anytime I make

her something, there is this level of joy and excitement from

my mother that is so genuine and so. So pure. And it's that it's

that thing where you're like, This is why you make something

for other people because they genuinely like get it and love

it. And she wants to tell everyone that her daughter made

it for her. So I made her a sweater called a. simmetrie that

I love. That was a little bit complex for me. And she wore it

the first time she had to travel out of town after my dad passed

away. And a woman she was sitting eating in a hotel bar by

herself. And a woman came up to her and asked her if she had

knit that sweater. And she said no but my daughter did. And

turns out the woman was like a knitting instructor and Blah

blah and she ended up sitting down having lunch with my mom

and my mom made a friend. And it was just one of those things

where it's like something that you knit that brings my mom

comfort and excitement but then also found find a way to like,

connect her to other people. Um, she's also notorious for talking

to people in public when she sees other people knitting like,

well my daughter knits and then I'll get like Instagram message

like I met your mom today. Um, and so that that 100% Makes me

feel incredibly special and that I understand that she

appreciates what I make her so she's probably my favourite

person to knit for and she's hilarious because like I'll wear

a sweater I was FaceTiming her the other day. And I had on a

new sweater that I made for myself. And like we're in the

middle of talking about something else and she goes. And

that sweater you're wearing is real cute.

is that her way of placing an order

That was her hint so I too would like that sweater w'm

like, What do I have? in my stash As can I make this exact

sweater But yeah, so anything for my mom, I think is my actual

favourite thing. And then I have a former grad student who's

like a little brother to me, who, whenever he helps me out,

he always askes me for this very specific hat, asked for in a

different colour. Hmm. Um, and apparently, like, everybody

always tries to take this hat. Everybody loves his hat. His dad

was like, I mean, I've never heard that said like, can she

make me one of these? Like, no, you don't know her. And she has,

like, you have no relationship like, this is my special thing.

But it's this special moment. I think any knit is special, you

give it away, and then you see it in use. Like, I've seen him

post pictures, and it's winter time he forever has on one of

the hats. And for that, that always makes me happy to hear

that, like, you see a baby wearing something made, or a

blanket that you made like that, to know that it's being used in

love that makes me happy

yeah, that actually happened to me. Last weekend, I

met up with my best friend who lives a few hours away. And she

was wearing the do you know, the scout shawl. And so I had knit

that when my dog was quite a small puppy and had like, so

it's intarsia and colour works that have like six balls of yarn

at once and I made it for my best friend's 40th. And we met

up in a different town and she was wearing it with this like

new yellow coat that just matched the which since she said

she hadn't bought especially because it matched the scarf,

but it looked great. And I happened to be wearing a

cardigan in the same yellow yarn that I'd used in her shawl. We

were like, looked like we were on a weird hen do or something

but it was. But it was so special to see her wearing that

I'd made her for her 40th which was in July. She's not a knitter

so, it was a slightly random gift. You know, you never quite,

I'm never quite sure if somebody who's not a knitter is gonna

appreciate you know, appreciate it.

I know. Yeah, I don't knit for everybody. And sometimes

I've been like pressured and i'm, like, just make it and then

And I've probably got to be what you feel like making at that

I'm like, I didn't need to make this person this because I will

never ever see evidence of this thing ever again. Um, well, my

knitting circle is incredibly small. And, and I do that so

that I can make whatever I want whenever I want. I don't

necessarily want people to put demands on what I choose to create.

particular time? Like what floats your boat just then.

Yeah, like sometimes I'm like, I like I have a friend who I know

really wants a sweater from me. And I know what sweater I want

to make him. But I have no interest in making this sweater

right now. Yeah, like January will hit and and i'll be like

now's the time lets make this sweater? Yeah. But um, and

that's I tell people you might get a sweater from me in July.

You might get a sweater from me in February. Like it just

depends on what the mood is and how I feel at the time.

Yeah, and it's difficult to know how long these

things take. Also, people are saying how long does it take to

knit a sweater? I don't know.

I'm like It depends. Like especially now um, I was

supposed to knit. I'm usually a fast knitter but I'm not this

year. And I'm my best friend comes with me to all yarn

related events. And she was coming to Rhinebeck and so I

knit her Rhinebeck sweater before. And I didn't have it in

me. I barely got through making mine in time for Rhinebeck but

my girlfriends in my little knitting group. Were like we'll

knit it for her because they love her too. And so I think for

me, that has also been like, one of the best things this year is

that I have a really good small circle of girlfriends who, when

I couldn't knit did stuff for me. And when I haven't had the

energy or the enthusiasm, they be like that, don't worry, we'll

handle it. Um, and so like they knit it, but then I ended up her

sleeves need to be a little bit longer. So I frogged back her

cuffs and made it a little bit longer for her so that there was

still a little bit of me in there. Yeah. But yeah, I just I

you know, I tell people like you get one when I feel like it

there have been some sweaters where I've loved the process.

And so I'll just spend a little bit of time and and put it away.

And so, I've had a sweater that took me like three months where

I'm like, Yeah, I'm probably gonna sat down and done this a

couple weeks, but I enjoyed it. So I would savour it and be

like, I'll come back to this. Like, I'll pick this back up

later.

Yeah, so it's a lot about the process for you than

the end result Oh, And you've mentioned the idea of knitting,

making you feel calmer, and you've mentioned the kind of joy

and the colour, are there any other ways you think knitting

kind of helps you in terms of your well being, or

I think I have met amazing people. Um, and so like I, you

know, I'd said before and 2020, when the pandemic started, if I

didn't have my, the group of five of us, I didn't have those

four women in my life, I don't know how I would have made it

through 2020. And I really don't know how I would have made it

through this year after getting sick and, and what connects us

is yarn. And it, you know, we incurred Look, we all bought

yarn, advent calendars this year. So that we could all open.

And so like, when I log off with you, I'm sure my text messages

will be full of pictures of what was in each person advent,

because we all got different ones,

you know, go get different ones, okay.

And so that we talked about and ooh and ahh over what each

person got, and, you know, we encourage our own purchases and

get excited and ooh and ahh over what each other's making and do

knit alongs amongst ourselves. So I think for me, knitting has

also brought amazing relationships into my life. And

even at my old job, like, I have a friend who I worked with, and

we had the same birthday, but years apart. And it turns out,

she was in there too. And so that was a way we kind of bonded

at work. Like she was a person where I probably we she and I,

we didn't really have anything in common. And then when

someone's like, oh, you know, this person knits and so does

Dana. And then we started talking and then created, had a

friendship, like and would bring yarn and pass stuff back and

forth at work. So I think knitting has also brought me

some amazing people into my life which i am thankful for.

That's amazing. Has knitting ever been unhelpful? Do

you think?

No, um, I mean, you get tired of people being like, make me this.

Yeah, they don't understand what all goes into it. You know, when

my dad was sick, my dad had cancer. And I was at the

hospital a lot. I knit a lot at the hospital. And the nurses

would come and talk to me about stuff or bring their projects

and show me things that they were working on. Now I think it

I think it is only brought good things into my life, and good

things and memories and things.

And I was interested you said when you're talking about your

mum wearing a sweater, that when she went out for the first time

after your dad had died, and it was like her wearing, I don't

know, superpower or like an added confidence when she wore

that sweater. I don't know whether you feel that

relationship with your sweaters that you or other garments that

you make when you wear them.

What I remember, like the first time I did this sweater,

and it was it was done in like a Hemp yarn so I could wear it in

the summer because I did it in like May. Yeah, the very first

time I was like, please don't let this whole for some reason.

I was like, please don't let this whole thing like unravel.

And just be naked at work.

Did it stay together?

It stayed together?I don't know why I thought but like, in

my head. I was like, this whole thing might just collapse. I

don't know what's gonna happen. Um, but I do feel better. When I

wear my own stuff. And then people like, Oh, what did you

make? And I'm like, yeah, yes, I did. Um,

I always say I feel 20% happier when I'm wearing

something I made. And I used to also I don't know, i This

probably has happened to you as well. But once you're an

established, you know, have a reputation as a knitter, you

know, in your place of work or whatever. Then whatever you

wear, people say, oh, did you knit that? And then it's so

annoying. If you wear something that you bought in a shop and

you're like, No, I totally could have made this it would be so

easy. But I didn't

I haven't bought a sweater. I bought Actually no, I bought a

sweater for the first time in the store the other day. And I

told my husband the only reason I bought it because it's in some

neutral colours that I would not. I wouldn't find joy in

knitting this for myself. So I'm just going to buy this because I

know I would be like, No, I'm not knitting this and I would

change it but I needed like a neutral to go with something

else. But I my students get the most excited about it. And I had

a student every day would come in. I will walk in and he's like

professor. Did you make it and I say Nate? I tell you every week

Yep. Yes, I made that like he was. So it is especially the

young man he was so like, amazed that I could make clothes.

Because they see me knitting. And so my students probably

asked me the most like, thing and you'll see the look on their

face might come in and like what's going on with them? Like,

did you make that one I'm Like, yeah, I made this one. Yeah. all

my sweaters I make all of them.

I have one from when the dog was in the terrible like

shark teeth phase or if the kids are sick and you don't want them

to vomit on a handknit jumper that I keep in the back of the

wardrobe, but the others are all handmade now. Yeah, I was going

to ask about knitting high end and knitting low. If you've got

any in mind.

Knitting High. Probably the first time I figured out how to

adapt a sweater for Jelly Bean's size.

Oh, yeah. And can you remember what that was.

Uh huh. It was an Angelina pullover. Um, and I knit it for

myself first. And she was an had been a new rescue. And so we

hadn't had her for long. But the whole time I've been knitting

mine, she had been using the ball of yarn as a pillow. And

she's so little, because she's just five pounds. And sometimes

you buy some of the store bought stuff. It's a little too big.

And I was like, You know what? I bought her stuff. And I paid too

much money for things. I need you to sit down. I've already

knit this. So I just need to do the math to shrink it down. And

I did it. And it was the most adorable, ridiculous thing I

ever knit.

and she loves wearing them.

She loves I mean, she wears clothes every day. Because yeah,

they're cold. Yeah. And it just was one of those things where

you know, cuz, like, why would you do that? Or that? Cuz it

made me happy. Like, that's literally the reason. um so that

is a really good high, can you think of a low? Oh, I can tell

you low, I really there was just beautiful cardigan that I really

wanted to make. And I got halfway through it. But it was

fishermen's rib and it was killing my hands. Okay, and it

took me a year and a half to Frog it.

Oh!

I finally like I have to let you go. Because I'm never gonna

finish you. Because every time I pick you up, like I feel the

ache in my hand. And it wasn't even small yarn. It was just the

stitch and the positioning of the hand. Like it just was too

much. Um, and someone else saw it was like You're like halfway

through. And I was like, Yeah, but I'm never there. I can't, I

can't do that was sad. But in frogging it. I ended up using

the yarn and making something with an amazing rainbow. Like

something else. I'm not too sad anymore. Like, yeah, it had a

better life. So I think probably the low would be in realising

like what those limitations are. And I think this year, I've not

knit as much as I would love to. Yeah. Okay. I've still made some

really great things that I'm excited about. Just in my head

has all these things that I want to make sure. And I always end

need to be an octopus with multiple arms. Yeah, and knit

way more than I do.

Yeah. Yeah. So you're full of ideas. And is that part of the

joy of the knitting? Like the planning the next project and

what colours or yarn you're going to use? And?

100% 100% Yeah, yeah, I love like, especially if I'm

knitting for someone else. I love that moment. When I know

the person I figure out the yarn and the pattern, it all clicks,

and it's so perfect. And you're like, like, my husband wanted

some sweater and I realised I knit this version of this

sweater for my sister the year before. And I realised I had the

perfect combination of yarn to make it for him a colourwork

sweater. And he never pays attention. So like I've been

knitting it. And then finally I was like, Okay, I need to try

this on. He's like, why? And I was like, I've been knitting a

sweater. Right? Like that's for me. I'm I guess, I mean,

I saw someone on Instagram. do you know. I think

drunk knitter I think is their Instagram and she was had a, she

was knitting next to her husband. And then she got him to

take a picture of her knitting something for him. And I was

thinking, I so could do that.

My husband, we went, we went to New Orleans on a trip

one year, and we're in a store and he held up a scarf and he

was like, if you could make me something like this, I would

love it. So while we're there, I took him into the yarn shop like

we'll pick the Colour yarn you want. So he knew the yarn. And

we used to commute together in the car, and I knit that scarf

for him in the car in front of him for Christmas. And he never

noticed. He never noticed I pulled that scarf out every

morning and every evening in our commute, and I made it in the

car in front of that man. And he never noticed. So I realised if

I don't talk about what it is that I'm making. Yeah, he pays

absolutely

screened it out.

Because I'm always knitting. Yeah, why would he

think it's for him? Yeah. So it wasn't until I said them the

other day, like, you know, this what it is for you? He's like,

what?

I was wondering whether you could get him a

surprise. Clearly you can. Yeah, yeah.

All the time. And then I'm like, he's, like, yes, yes. paid

zero attention.

But he's delighted for the outcome.

Oh, no, he's not. I know. It's like, there's certain certain

things that make like there are hats. I haven't even gotten to

block because as soon as I show him, like, I just finished your

hat. And the next day, I'm like, where did it go? And then he

comes home, and it's on his head. The process not over it

needs to be blocked. Um, so there's something that he

absolutely like. And he is very, He's usually very specific. He

is very specific in his request, and will like, show you a

picture or give you an example and then tell you what colour

okay. And he usually only asked for one thing a year, and I

can't so I always make it for him. So I made him a sweater

this year because I wanted to. But he has asked for a scarf and

a specific yarn, which I got for him. So I'll be working on that

mindlessly, for him garter stitch scarf, it's really more

about the yarn. He thought. He saw a speckled yarn in a sweater

that I made. He's like, I want yarn like that. But it like

blue, red and white. And so like, oh, he just wants

speckles. Okay.

He didn't know he wanted speckles,

he didn't know. He kept looking at my sweater. I like I

like, like this effect. And so i'm like, you like the yarn?

Okay. That's what you're telling me is you'd like the speckled

yarn. Got it? I got it.

So you just have to translate that. Yeah. For him.

It

He usually gives me the visuals are enough thing. Yeah.

Where I can figure out and I'll ask questions like, Is it the

texture? Or is it the colour or how it's arranged? And he'll be

like, no, no, it's this and I'm like, oh, that I can do.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I always end the podcast with

asking, what's the greatest gift that knitting has given you for

the rest of your life?

Creative expression, probably. I've always been a

really creative, artistic person. And I think it has

helped me find ways to express myself even like, embroidering

on my knits now. Hmm. So like, as I go through some quotes and

things I pull in grad school, and I was like, You know what, I

just need to start embroidering some of these things onto like

simple sweaters because these are like things that I live by

are things that are kind of what guide me in my research and my

academic work or like, things that I love. And so it has given

me another way to kind of have a creative outlet and express

myself, which I'm very thankful for. And isn't necessarily

something that we get all the time or, you know, I was raised,

where my parents really encouraged my creativity and for

me to express myself in those kinds of ways. So to find a way

as an adult to have an outlet, I think so often we get caught up

in work. Yeah, allow that to take over our lives and my dad

was always like, I do not live to work I work so that I can

live the life that I want to live and so I always tried to

find a balance and to find moments of joy for myself and

things that like that come outside of work when I leave my

my when I used to leave with nine to five job, I had other

things I wanted to do and enjoy and I told my students like it's

a little different for me as a professor, but like, I told him,

you know, my, my winter break is about Yes, I have some research

work I had to do, but also I'm gonna knit and I'm gonna play

video games. And I'm gonna give myself that mental break that I

need. Because I also think it rejuvenates me and it makes me a

better educator, a better person because I have creativity and

things that are exciting outside of just doing every day.

That's great. I often like I often see young people

for therapy Who are in exam years and I find, they often end

up giving up their hobbies for those exam years, because

they're trying to focus on passing exams. And I'm like, No,

this is the time you need those things even more.

This is when you need it. And I for me, you know, I just

sat for comps, so two days, for 12 hours total of writing. And I

just my in between hours and my in between days, I was knitting

as a way to say, I have all this stuff that I've stored in my

brain. So I need to just give myself a moment to not just

focus on what it is that I've been writing and working on

thinking about theories and methodology and, like, let's

work on this hat. Because

I find sometimes that the ideas percolate a bit when

I'm knitting, like, I'm not trying to access thinking about

work or having ideas about things, but somehow they arrive.

When I'm knitting.

Sometimes I have that verse. And so I scribble notes

on my patterns. Okay. Um, and then also for me, because a lot

of my research goes into the knitting community. Sometimes it

makes me think about or see things in different ways. So I

have time to kind of process that information. Yeah. No, I

always make my my best friend has a really stressful job. And

I'm like, You need to pick up crocheting or weaving. Because

they are stressing you out. And I want you to find a way to

disconnect and reconnect with yourself so that they don't pull

all of the creativity out of you just for this job that you get

to save a little bit for yourself.

Dana, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the

podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure hearing your

experiences and all your ideas.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you so much for listening to series, one of the

why I knit podcast. I've really enjoyed having these

conversations and sharing them with you. If you've enjoyed the

podcast, please subscribe so that you're notified when series

two begins at the beginning of March. Thank you