The discussion centers on the premise that fun is not merely an ancillary aspect of ministry but a fundamental component that can significantly enhance church unity. Pastor Lance Skipper articulates the notion that embracing joy within ministry fosters a more inviting atmosphere, encouraging connections among congregants. The dialogue explores the various manifestations of joy in ministry, emphasizing that a lighthearted approach can facilitate deeper relationships and understanding among church members. By reflecting on personal experiences and community interactions, we highlight the transformative power of fun and its potential to break down barriers that may exist within the church. Ultimately, this episode serves as an invitation for all listeners to reconsider the role of enjoyment in their spiritual practices and community engagement.

The dialogue between Joshua Noel, TJ Blackwell, and Pastor Lance Skipper delves deeply into the critical interplay between joy and ministry within the church context. They underscore that the act of rejoicing, as articulated in Philippians 4:4-9, is not merely a suggestion but a vital aspect of Christian living. Pastor Skipper emphasizes that a ministry characterized by joy and fun does not detract from the seriousness of spiritual responsibilities; rather, it enhances the church's mission by fostering unity and community among believers. Through anecdotes and personal experiences, the speakers illustrate how a lighthearted approach can break down barriers, facilitate genuine connections, and ultimately lead to a more vibrant and welcoming church environment. The episode champions the notion that joy is a potent tool for ministry, advocating for a shift in perspective that prioritizes the joy of serving and engaging with others over the burdens of obligation and duty. Thus, they present a compelling case for integrating fun into church activities as a means to cultivate deeper relationships and a more unified body of believers. In their insightful discourse, the speakers convey the transformative power of adopting a fun-centric approach to church ministry.

Pastor Lance Skipper articulates his journey towards recognizing the importance of joy in his pastoral role, sharing poignant stories that illustrate how laughter and fun can create an inviting atmosphere for believers and seekers alike. The discussion revolves around the biblical exhortation to rejoice and dwell on what is good, highlighting how these principles can be practically applied to church life. The hosts reflect on their experiences with ministry and the profound impact of fostering a culture of fun in their respective congregations. They advocate for a paradigm shift within the church, urging leaders and congregants to embrace joy as a fundamental component of their faith journey, thereby cultivating an inclusive and united community that reflects the essence of Christ's teachings. The episode serves as a clarion call to prioritize enjoyment in ministry, positing that true Christian unity is achieved not through uniformity but through the shared joy of fellowship and worship.

Takeaways:

1. Pastor Lance Skipper emphasizes the importance of joy in ministry, suggesting that it fosters a more welcoming and united church environment.
2. The discussion highlights how fun and enjoyment within church activities can enhance fellowship, making spiritual gatherings more engaging and meaningful.
3. Lance argues that viewing challenges with a positive perspective can transform potentially stressful situations into opportunities for growth and connection within the church community.
4. The conversation encourages ministers to focus on loving interactions and to prioritize the joy of sharing the gospel over the burden of administrative tasks or negativity.
5. Lance shares a personal experience where a simple act of kindness from church members, such as delivering a freezer of food, exemplified God's love in action and strengthened community bonds.
6. The podcast advocates for a shift in mindset among church leaders, urging them to approach ministry with gratitude and a commitment to creating a joyful atmosphere for both congregants and themselves.

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Philippians 4, 4:9 in the Christian Standard Bible says, rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again. Rejoice. Let your graciousness be known to everyone. The Lord is near.

Don't worry about anything, but in everything, through prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Jesus Christ.

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any moral excellence, and if there is anything praiseworthy, dwell on these things. Do what you have learned and received and heard from me and seen in me, and the God of peace will be with you.

This perigami comes right near the end of Paul's letter to the Church of Philippi.

At Philippi.

In this letter, Paul's thanking the church for their support and encouraging them to continue in their work. Here, Paul just gives some encouraging advice before he ends the letter, telling the church to rejoice, dwell on the good, and find peace in God.

Lance Skipper, how might we today benefit from dwelling more on what's good?

Oh.

I think it's pretty simple, man. Dwelling on what good is dwelling on really? What really matters? A, my salvation, B, my family. And everything will flow out of that.

He's right. Yeah.

Wise man. Hey, guys. Welcome to the whole church podcast, possibly your favorite church unity podcast. I've been doing a lot of. A lot of Christian podcast wine.

And we're here to get them to stop and to get along, hold hands and sing that song in the Grinch movie instead. And what better way to do that? Then, of course, announcing the one and only greatest co host to ever be the actual host of a podcast.

The one and only Pod almighty TJ Tabby or Swan Blackwell. Tj, how's it going?

Good.

Yeah. And of course, we're also here with man, it's. It's Pastor Lance Skipper. And I always forget to say pastor because, like, Lance and I go way back.

Good friend. And when we think about, like unity and stuff in the church today. And I talked to Lance recently and he's just talking about a ministry of fun.

And I'm like, you know what? Yeah. Sometimes I think we forget joy is a fruit of the spirit and fun is actually important.

And Lance is here to remind us to have fun and let loose a little bit. So I'm excited to have him on board. Lance, thanks for joining us, man.

Absolutely. Thank you for the invitation.

Yeah, like I said, Lance Skipper, a Pastor in the church. Got a prophecy In Walterboro, South Carolina, which is at least top 50 states, if we're being honest with ourselves.

In America.

In America. Yeah. Top 50American states. South Carolina is there. But if you want to support us, you can go to our website, purchase one of our T shirts.

It helps to promote the show, raises money for needs, and gets others to know about the importance of our mission to educate and unite the modern church. We think it's super important. Hopefully you do as well. And me, I do have a favorite one. It just says the whole church podcast. That's it.

It's plain and simple.

Yeah. With a teacher quote on the back.

Yeah. The name is T.J. quote on the back. The back is blank. It just says the whole church podcast on the front.

Still a great. Perfect.

Yeah, it's perfect. So if you like what we do here, check out the Onazon Podcast Network website. We're on there. There's a bunch of other shows on there.

Yeah, we've been adding a lot and bringing in some shows that weren't on any network, and we're still adding a few, so definitely check it out.

We also have an Apple podcast, like Apple itself has our network there that if you want to just see the network and all the shows on there and you happen to be on Apple podcasts, do that also.

Even though most of our listeners, it turns out, are, like, in, like, these big, like, seminary cities, like, you know, Louisville, Kentucky, and all that, most of our listeners, specifically in Apple turns out, are in Vancouver in New York City. So shout out to all of our Canadian listeners. Yeah. Because I just kind of like that. That's a thing. Makes me happy.

Especially when both of y' all are wearing, like, hockey jerseys. Yeah.

Yeah, we are.

Yeah.

Vancouver's a beautiful city.

I want to go. Maybe I'll visit one of our listeners in Vancouver. Send me your address. I'm coming over. I'm gonna hang out with you guys for. Yeah, yeah.

Just some strangers. It's fine. Well, guys, if you can't tell, one of my favorite forms of unity is actually silliness, because it's a holy sacrament.

You can't be divided when you're being silly. Fact. We've proven it several times.

Except for that one time, when was it Dr. Greg Allison that tried to argue with me about the silly question was it Will?

We've disproven it twice.

That's fine. But today's. It's going to be a fun one.

If your favorite comic book character were to sing fun with spongebob, what acronym do you think they would have for fun?

Context.

For those listeners who weren't millennial, didn't grow up with spongebo. Spongebob and antagonist of the show Plankton, sing a song together called Fun. Spongebob's trying to teach Plankton about fun.

Says, f is for friends who do stuff together, etc. Etc. And when it's Plankton's turn, F is for fire, U is for uranium, N is for no survivors.

I want to know if your favorite comic book character was there. Instead of Plankton singing that song, what would Fun stand for? Tj, will you. Will you take the reins on this? Start us off.

Yeah, I'm glad you said it that way, because the harder part of this question was deciding who my favorite comic book character is. Yeah, I landed on Kyle Rayner. Who's that? Green Lantern. What?

Oh, yeah, I knew that. My bad. My brain talking about not good. I had a long work day.

You did, too, but so did I. We have the same job.

Sorry.

Anyway, Kyle Rayner, for him, I think he would say that. F is for Flash Man. I really don't like that guy. U is for unbelievable artistry, and N is for now can I finally stop being this galaxy's copy?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, for myself, I hate how stereotypical my favorite comic book character is, but it is Captain America.

For the record, though, he's been my favorite for a really long time, to the extent that I have a hat that I had to sew on the patch myself for the Captain America because no one knew who he was when he was my favorite. And then the MCU happened, and now it's every. Like, everybody's like, oh, Cap or Iron Man, Y' all don't even know. You didn't know the struggle.

I feel like I'm trying to be hipster. I need to stop. But I think Steve Rogers, Captain America. F is for freedom, obviously. U is for united we stand.

And I think N still stands for anywhere and anytime at all. For those who don't know, Captain America's even stood up against the government when they tried to belittle others or have stuff like that.

Because he says, no, freedom is for everyone. And that's why he's my favorite. So works out pretty well. I'm not gonna go on a Captain America rant.

I'm gonna fight the urge and let Lance tell us his favorite comic book character and what. What Fun stands for.

All right, so mine is very stereotypic, but nice. It's not any of the modern ones. It's the 90s animated Batman.

Heck yeah, it is.

F is for felons running through the streets. U is for utility belt. N is for nighttime anytime at all.

Incredible. Incredible. Ah man. Sometimes way scary. Invite guests that are way too smart.

On during the day.

Is it though?

Yes.

I feel I see him during. Well, that's true. If you see him during the day, he's probably leading the Justice League and Superman's not far behind.

Yeah, it's a much bigger problem.

What if it just automatically turns night, even if it's like 12 in the afternoon?

That should be part of his powers up.

That's something they'll probably end up doing in the absolute, absolute Batman.

Yeah. Also, I just, I feel like not to get like theology annoying here, but that's.

It's the same problem of the psalms where people are like, why is all these psalms about judgment? And it's like. Well actually, you know, if you're living like righteous, like the psalms about judgment are a good thing.

You want judgment, cuz that means justice. I think same thing with Batman. Batman's not really scary if you're, you know, doing good. It's only scary if you're a bad guy.

Yeah, I see that. You know, but anyway, I'm still worried about something if I see Batman in broad daylight.

That's true. He's not there for no reason. Yeah, something is bad somewhere. But fair.

Lance, it's been a while since you've been on our show. Probably like five years.

Wait, really?

It's been that long?

Man, that's crazy.

Might have been six years. It's been a very long time. But would you mind catching our listeners up on what are you and what you've been up to?

You know, personally, Walter Bro Lee, family wise, what's been going on in the life of Lance?

I think it's because last time Lance, like the first time Lance was on the show, he crushed the too long, didn't listen things so hard. No one else has ever beat the record. So it's like he already won the whole church podcast, you know.

Yeah, that was a long time ago.

Yeah, very long.

Yeah. Yeah. So I moved to Walterboro. I'm full time pastoring, pastored in Aiken for 10 years and was bivocational and got married and have four kids.

So we moved here in August to Walterboro Church of God of Prophecy. And it's just the greatest place on earth as the, the greatest people, the greatest church. So really that's, that's what has been.

It's Just been getting here and getting to know the people and getting to know the church and just enjoying it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

His church is better than yours. So just if y' all are wondering, church unity, but you do have to admit, you know, their church has Lance.

Just in case someone is trying to connect the dots. They did not have four kids in the past five years. That's not. That's not how that happens. But, you know.

Yeah, I didn't even think about that because, like, I don't know, just. It's Lance, you know, everything that happens at Lance's life, it's just normal to me because I, you know, I. I at least keep up on Facebook.

Stuff just happens, man.

Yeah, stuff just happens.

How was. How is the family life? Has that been, like, easy adjustment for you? Do you feel like you were just like a natural dad or.

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was super easy. Yeah, it was super easy because it's just at the end of the day, everything's simple.

If you just listen and love it just everything falls together, you know, Never going to be able to make a kid be what I want them to be, but if I can help them and love them and turns out pretty. Pretty even.

Yeah, I.

Sorry, this is a little bit of a side tangent, but, like, I know a lot of people talk about how their perspective of God changed when they have a kid because, you know, it's like God the father and it's like once you're a dad, that's like a whole nother connection point is that. Did you have anything like that? Like, because you were just kind of like, boom, you're a dad.

No, no, no. Not for man. I wish I was a deeper thinker.

It's good sometimes be.

That's why I love you, Lance.

Like me, you know, to me it was just like, you know, of course, you know, my two step kids and. And then, you know, the two children we had together, it was just simple as these two kids need love and I'm going to love them.

And I treated them like I would treat, you know, treat my own. But here's the key to many things in life. I don't think about it. I just don't think about it. It's. I want to love you. We did have one conversation.

They said that they wanted to call me dad. And I said, if you feel like I've earned it, call. Yeah, call me it. If you feel like I've earned it. If. If I love you that well, then that's fine.

But I don't think about it.

Yeah, I not anti intellectual, but I do think people think too much sometimes. The I also just my own speculation. I don't want to expect anyone to comment on it.

But for those who don't know, Lance as a pastor and just like as a guy has always been like basically taking people in and caring for them. So like, when I think about, I'm like, yeah, really, it probably wasn't that much different than just normal life. Yeah.

So originally I messaged you about a completely different episode. I mentioned that earlier. You were telling me about how, like, right now you're trying more to focus on a ministry of fun is how you worded it.

So I kind of want to know a little bit more about that. What do you mean by ministry of fun and why do you think fun is so important to ministry and like your ministry specifically?

I think right now it's important because I realized for a while there I wasn't having fun in ministry. It was just, you know, you have to do this. You have to have answers for everything.

And I think what I've just realized is having fun is not something I tend to do. It is something that happens because I legitly enjoy what I'm doing and I'm grateful to do it. Bad things can be fun. Difficult challenges can be fun.

You know, I. I think of just in general. Like, I had a situation where a church member came up to me and they said, I can't pay tithes anymore or I can't give an offer anymore.

So that's all right. That's fine. I can't pay tithes anymore. I said, that's totally cool. I said, you know what the Bible says, that's fine. I can't come to sun.

I can't come Sunday nights anymore. So that's totally cool, man. Wednesday, totally cool. I can't come Sunday mornings. I was like, that's fine, brother. I love you.

I'm going to check up on you. That stuff doesn't have to stress me out because after that happened, a couple of days later, he called me because his wife fell on the floor and.

And he asked me to come help get her up off the floor and check her blood pressure. And if I was so worried and all this stuff, I just, okay, that's fine, you know, no big deal. So it's not so much, am I trying to have fun? No.

I'm just going to approach everything as this is going to be a good time.

Yeah.

Even the complicated questions. Right. We're not going to give to the church that can be fun if you're not so focused on there's. We have to do this, have to do that. No, no, no.

We're going to love God and we're going to love people, and it's hard to love someone when you're miserable.

Yeah, yeah, that's very true.

Very true.

And that's. I. To kind of give, like, the flip side of congregant, you know, instead of the pastor.

I actually remember a time whenever, like, I started back at Chipotle, I'd start working a lot of Sundays. And I was aggravated because after Covid, no one really does Sunday nights or anything anymore.

And the church that I feel closest with right now is Chapel Hill Shout out Pastor Will Rose. And, you know, I don't live close to there, and it's just kind of irritating. I couldn't be there live. I can't go there in person.

You know, I'm sitting there at work, and the main reason I'm sitting there is because everybody else wants to go to church, so nobody wants to be at work. And I'm like, this sucks. And I got really aggravated at it.

And then one day I was like, you know, actually, it's kind of a really good thing that so many people at my work just want to be at church.

Church.

So I just, you know, stopped being negative about it. Found a way to help. You know, I put the podcast, the sermons up on the podcast. I do what I can for my church from a distance online.

And it's, like, not ideal, but, you know, it really helps to change your mindset from, oh, I'm aggravated, everybody wants to go to church, to. Sweet. So many people at my work want to go to church.

Yeah. And if I'm fast enough getting out of work on Sundays, sometimes I can still make it. They're for fellowship still.

Oh, yeah, man, they're great. Yeah, that's true.

Well, church, you know, to me, you know, church isn't something that, you know, it's not like going to a ball game. Right. So to me, it's like, if you're not going to come to church, I'm just going to go to you.

Yeah.

I don't put borders on it. I will go anywhere. I'll knock on anyone door. I don't care. And that's a good thing about, like I said, not being a deep thinker.

Um, I'm just going to go to wherever you are. And because, you know, I love you, I'm not going to say, oh, well, you know, I'm disappointed No, no, it's totally fine. Because this isn't. That.

This isn't a thing of. I need to see you on a Sunday. We need to be rooted in relationship.

You know, there's not a day that goes by that I don't talk to sometimes 10 church members a day. And it's not because they're members, because.

I genuinely just like, yeah, yeah, that's a. It's a weird thing because my. My pastor. Pastor Will I mentioned I do a podcast with him, Systematic Ecology. And it's so funny.

Like, our texts, like, how, like, you can go through and there'll be, like, one day I'm texting him about the church, and then one day I'm texting him about the podcast, and then sometimes I'm just texting him. I'm like, dude, have you seen Wonder Man? Because, like, we're also just friends. And, like, I don't. What you're saying also just reminds me of Jesus.

And, like, I say this a lot, and it's probably annoying.

It's not like, my favorite movie, but there's this movie called Risen, and there's just this image that they have in the film of, like, Jesus and the disciples just sitting around laughing. And I don't know. For me, that's always, like, when I think of Jesus now, that's the image for me. And, like, I'm thinking about what you're saying.

And Jesus very much was not going to people going, why aren't you in the temple? He was telling the people in the temple of, like, no, actually, it's good that they're trying to find food for their family.

It's good that they're trying to heal the sick even on the Lord's day. And Jesus was kind of always challenging this, like, idea of, like, dogma for, hey, sometimes let's just do that thing where we care about people.

And I think the interesting thing of, like, church history, even the church that we all grew up in, the Church of God of Prophecy. Well, me and TJ Grew up in. And you're a pastor of Church of God of Prophecy, and you didn't really attend. Yeah, yeah.

You're the only one who left, man.

Yeah, I'm just the loser here. But the, like, the history there even of, like, how they'll, like. I want to say this in a way that's courteous.

They imposed a lot of rules that I think had good intent of, like, hey, girls should dress this way. We shouldn't have wedding bands. And the idea wasn't, like, we're going to do all these rules because this is what it means to be Christian.

It was more of a, like, they thought wedding band was showing off and you were doing this. Like, there was good intent behind a lot of it.

And it's really hard sometimes to like, balance this of, like, obviously we want to do good things, we want to be righteous. We don't want to be showing off our wealth.

We don't want to be doing stuff that's like, you know, in line with culture, just to be in line with culture, like some of that stuff. I think there's a good heart there and it's really hard to find this.

Like, we're not going to throw out all the rules of the Bible or all the rules of our church, but we're also not going to, like, push this stuff on people so much they don't even care about, you know, like, it's not fun anymore.

Yeah, well, if you are genuine and you're coming from a good place, if you're praying and reading and speaking from a minister, if you're right with God, then you're going to have the same compassion that comes with God, right? So I didn't grow up in church. I got saved and I felt the compassion that God had for me. So now I feel that compassion for other people. Right?

Same compassion that Christ has. So what that goes into is my interactions with people.

The difficult ones, the good ones, the bad ones, everything in the middle, they're going to come from a place of, this is a human being that needs to know Christ. And getting upset or getting frustrated is not going to be because of them.

It's going to be because of the lack of time I spend with Christ in my life, personal life.

If I'm worried about finances, it's because I'm lacking in my personal devotion with Christ because I'm allowing my flesh to carry me to a state where my emotions are coming out, right? So if I tend to my relationship with God, to me, you can come to me and say, oh, I hate you. You're the worst. Okay, well, let's talk about it.

Let me buy you dinner and let's go talk about that. Right? Tell me why you hate me and I'll buy your dinner. And that only comes when you're right with God.

When, when, when you, when you're comfortable, you know, in your flesh that you're just like, okay, well, let me put it like this. My grandfather always told me I used to always be nervous about how people thought about me. And he told Me, what's the worst they gonna do?

Take you out back and shoot you? Right? If you're a Christian, if someone so happens ends you, you go to heaven.

But why are we so worried about a bad conversation, someone not liking us, someone cursing us out? None of that stuff matters. What matters is let me talk to you and let me show you Jesus. And if you still hate me after that, I guess it's justified.

But I can't control if you do or you don't. Just let me present the gospel as I've experienced it through His Word, and then we'll see where we come out after that.

And if you still hate me, that's a you problem.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's why it's so important to missiology and in like evangelism stuff, just like you described.

But I also think it's important for Christian unity since this is our unity podcast, because just speaking for myself, and I'm insecure sometimes.

There are a lot of pastors from church God of prophecy that I'm still like a little iffy on talking to now because I know I changed my belief on some stuff and I don't know how that conversation will go. You've never been one.

I'm like, I feel like even if I told you the most outrageous thing that I changed my mind on, like, I haven't changed my mind on this. But if I was just like, Lance, I changed my mind about God, I feel like you'd be like, okay, tell me more about that.

You might want to meet me and talk. Because I know that's a serious one. But I don't fear you judging me, if that makes sense.

Where are we going to get if I do?

Yeah, I mean, I just, I'm just applauding you. I know that's probably awkward. Sorry.

No, no, it's fine. You know, the church I'm at right now, Walterboro, we. It is one of the most just when it comes down to people.

We have white folks, we have business owners, we have people from Jamaica, we have people who do not speak any English, that are Hispanic, and we are able just to blend.

And when there's been, I give you example, one of the ladies who are from Jamaica, grew up in Jamaica, moved to New York, and she was explaining how, you know, when I got here, I worshiped one way. And I've tried to blend into yalls worship because it's different. And it came to a point where it was like, well, you know what?

Yeah, this is a different culture for you. So she blends her culture in.

And if you're like such a stickler of always wanting to have control, then that's when problems come in because it's like, no, bring your culture. She brought me some oxtail and some goat and, and you know, and it's like, yeah, I want to get to know who you are, you know.

That sounds great, by the way.

Not fair.

This sounds cool. Yeah, man.

See, if I want oxtail, I have to go pay like 18 a plate for it.

You should have been a pastor that.

Yeah, I missed my dinner calling. So most people think of fun as antithetical to seriousness. Do you think that ministry can be both fun and serious at the same time?

I think fun is serious.

We're serious about fun.

Yeah. Because I think if you're miserable, you can't do it well. And if you're miserable, you're not going to enjoy being around people.

You know, if you're miserable, you're going to prejudge. Oh, that guy wants to talk to me because of this.

You know, I think serious is I take everything that we do serious, but I take it serious because I enjoy doing it.

Right.

I read the Bible because I enjoy the Bible. I'm not bored by the Bible. I'm not bored by prayer. I'm not bored by worship.

I'm not bored by sitting in the room with 70 year old and hearing the same story a million times because I'm so grateful to do it.

Yeah.

How?

This might be a dumb question. How, how do we do that? Like, let's say somebody listening is like, I hate hearing this old person talk.

Or the Bible's just boring, I don't really want to read it. Like, how do they go from that place to the place where you're at, where you're like, I enjoy this stuff.

Like, is there a way to just flip a switch And I enjoy this now?

Well, for me it was losing the enjoyment for it, you know, really enjoying it at one time and then kind of doing it more out of obligation and then just realizing that for me the problem was me, the problem was. And everyone has their different situation. Right.

You know, I'm not saying if, if you don't enjoy the Bible, you're, you know, there's something wrong with you. All I'm saying is change. Change how you're looking at it to enjoy it. Don't do it out of obligation. Right.

Like some people, I want to read the whole Bible in the year, you know, or people ask me, have you ever read the Bible? Front to back at one time? No, but have I read it all the way through? Absolutely. But I'm not trying to mark in a journal. I've done it. I've done it.

I've done it. I just want to get to know God. And I'm interested in what the Greek says and what the Hebrew says. I'm interested in the context. Right.

And to me, it's almost like. Think of, like, the worst thing that could happen. Your wife gets on your nerves. Right. Drives you.

Nerves?

Never.

You wouldn't feel like, you know, you wouldn't feel that way if she passed away.

Yeah.

You'd rather live the worst argument you ever had every single day than if she was gone. Well. What? Change your perspective. Right. So it's like, I can't stand church. What's with your perspective? You're looking for perfect people.

They're not going to be at church. Right. That's like saying, I'm not going to go to the gym because there's people there that's out of shape. Well, yeah, yeah. They're going to be there.

There's nothing wrong.

That's where they go. They pay to be there.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, it's the same thing for the church. There's going to be people who are hypocrites because they don't understand.

There's going to be people that are going to be hypocrites because they're hurt. They're genuinely hurt.

There's a lot of things that changes throughout world, you know, messing with the ologies that they can't accept because they were raised one way. So what you do is you don't look at them as enemies. You look at them the way that Christ looked at the thief on the cross. Right. And just. I'm okay.

You know, I say this, my church, perfection is the enemy of the good. Right. If we look for perfection, we'll never see what is good. So my thing is sameness is not the same as lightness. Right.

So you might love pizza and I might love steak. And you might say, I'll never eat steak. I'll never eat pizza. But we can agree on one thing. We both got to eat.

Yeah.

So you eat what you like. And I. I like. And then we can come to terms on these deep theological statement. Once again, we try to answer these things in a conversation.

Let's bring the Bible. You're a believer, I'm a believer. Let's discuss it.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know.

Yeah, I. I don't want to take us too much on A side tangent, I think, too. And I like that you put examine yourself. You know, I think of, like, when David prayed and said, examine me, O Lord, that kind of stuff.

I was in a position when I left the Church of God, of Prophecy, where we were missing church a lot. Not because I couldn't go, but because, like, it was just. I didn't like it. And then when we were there, I even had like a little notebook.

And I write down what was said. And anytime I was like, I disagree with this because of this and this interpretation, I don't like because of this.

And, like, that was what my notebook was. And I'm like, I am only going with negative eyes. And I was at a point where I'm like, I'm making it miserable for my wife and for everyone around me.

And, like, part of that was a me problem. But then even when I solved that, I was like, I'm not getting anything out of this. And that's when I started going to another church.

I changed my perspective a little bit, and that helped me. Now I don't want everyone to be like, I have to change church because sometimes a problem is exclusively you, and moving isn't going to help.

So I think sometimes maybe there's a little bit of both of working on yourself and then also saying, hey, if I'm the problem, maybe I need to change where I'm at a little bit.

Change something so that when I do change my perspective, I'm able to look at it anew, you know, and that's like, whenever I started going to a Lutheran church, I think what really helped me was it's so wildly different, you know, like, it's not focusing on the Bible. So even my little analytical brain that wants to, you know, oh, why'd they say that?

They talk about the Bible, but, like, we have the hymns, we have the sacrament, we have like, all the stuff getting up and down and being physically active. And it reminded me, I'm not doing this church thing to learn from somebody or to argue with them.

I'm doing this church thing to be a part of the body of God in community. That's not going to help everybody. That helped me a lot. Just doing church differently changed my perspective, helped me a lot.

Some people, you just need to pray. You need to learn to find a way to enjoy the Bible. There's a lot of book recommendations. Email us.

I can help you guys with the book stuff, but, you know, I think a lot of it's discernment, knowing yourself and what's going to help you. And if you're not having a good time at church, the Bible, prayer, whatever, there are things to do. Some of it is examine yourself.

Some of it is maybe finding a way to do things differently.

And sometimes it's also, maybe some things aren't. Maybe it's not you. Maybe there is a problem. Right. But also realize. How do I want to say this?

You cannot change every problem just by being emotional about it.

Yeah.

Sometimes God does move you. Sometimes you have to be patient and wait. Right. There's different circumstances. There's so many different variations.

But sometimes, you know, it's a thing of I am just going to be planted. And I'm going to do my best to enjoy being in the house of God, being in fellowship with others, even though I might not agree with everything. Right.

And then I will follow where the Spirit is leading me from there. But the key is don't react out of emotion.

Yeah.

Get mad and leave. Right. That's why we have 10 billion churches. It's only got mad and left.

Yeah.

Yeah. Until we unify, all of the churches take advantage.

Yeah. Let me. I got. I had two CS Lewis quotes that I want to do before I have to have to go. And trying to, like, think back. It won't be quotes.

It's going to be more like guesses of what he said.

I remember at one point Ziesley was talking about faith being like this thing of like, not saying to never question your beliefs, but rather evaluating. Are you questioning it out of emotion because you don't like something, or are you actually intellectually questioning what you believe?

It's like intellectual questioning is a good thing emotionally because you don't like something about the Bible or like what's happening at your church, and you're reacting out of emotion. That's when faith steps in and says, I'm going to stand my ground. Let nothing move you shout out Christian Ashley.

But when it's actually something intellectually challenging. Hey, entertain that. Think about that. Don't be afraid of those things. God has the answers, I believe. And if not, he's not God. Right.

So I think entertain the intellectual question, but the stuff that is emotional, like links to saying, maybe avoid that. The other one goes back to when we were talking about fun. This is my other CS Lewis thing. And then I'm going to leave.

He talks about what he does, the four loves. I have to talk about four loves at least once an episode. It's in my contract. He talks about family, love, and all of the loves.

He talks about how they go sour when it becomes a God, it becomes a demon. And then that's why God's love has to govern all of our other loves.

And he talks about family love, and he gives this example of this old lady who always waits up for people. And to her, it's because she loves.

She's waiting up for her son to come home when he's out with wherever he's waiting for her husband to come home from work. And she's thinking this is out of love. And it is. But for them, they know that she's up too late. They feel bad. It's burdening them with guilt.

She prioritized this love and thinking she had to stay up with because she thinks that's beneficial to them. But really, it's making everyone just feel guilty all the time. And that's where I think our love needs to have a little bit of.

A little bit of a give, you know, and love and joy and all these things are important. And maybe not holding on so tight to dogma. And always contacting Pastor Lance when you feel down, because he will always make you smile.

Lance, I love you. And I will always remember Felipe shouting that one phrase that we won't say on air.

Love you too, my friend.

All right, man. I can't wait to hear the rest of this episode later. Love you too, tj.

Well, thanks, Josh. Love you, too. It's his anniversary. If you're listening, on the day we're recording this.

So, Lance, could you just share with us some of your favorite stories? Your favorite, you know, the most fun you've had since you've become a pastor.

Most fun I've had since I've become a pastor.

Yeah. And if you want to, you know, you can still count the youth pastor stuff. I just. That's kind of cheating. Like, of course it's more fun.

Well, I. I think it's all been fun in different. You know, to me, my ministry's always kind of been punk rock.

Yeah, a little.

Yeah, it's always kind of been little, you know, do it, do it yourself type of thing. I know since I've been here, I've had a lot of fun. Walterboro has been a lot of fun.

Just because, you know, like I said, even with that situation, I told earlier about the times being able to be a part of people's lives or being able to just, you know, I've gotten to the point where the church members. I have one church member, they want me to visit them every Friday at 9am I go there Every. I just walk right into the house.

Being able to meet people in the community. I've been here about six months and we've been able to do. We've already done community events, fall events.

We're going to go into nursing homes and pass out. We have 300 bags of cookies with Valentine's to be able to brighten up their days.

Being able to have deep conversations with people, People coming to me just, you know, talking about deep things and being able to get in there and love on them and pray for them. So when I think of fun things, I can think of all the events we've done, but really what I'm thinking about is the enjoyment I have with people.

Like this one guy, not gonna say his name. Even though he wouldn't mind. He. We're doing a pet and zoo for the fall festival and he was bringing a donkey.

He couldn't get the donkey on the trailer. So my man walked this donkey two miles down the road to the church and then we wrestled that donkey to get back on the trailer.

And why, why did he do it? He said all the neighborhood kids was petting the donkey and, and all that stuff. He's a man.

A two mile, two mile walk was worth it for those kids to enjoy being able to pet that donkey. So once again, bad experience if you have one perspective. Great experience if you have another perspective.

Some people can just say, well, that donkey was being agitated. But to me, I would rather have the worst day in the world if I'm able to reach one person for Christ. That donkey just about kicked me.

And that would have been bad. But if someone. We want a family from that event. So if it was a little agitation that got us there, that's fine, we'll take it.

I think you could take one donkey kick.

I don't think so.

I think you've got it.

I don't think.

No, you got it. I hope we don't have to find out. But Thanksgiving, you got it.

That.

You got that. Oh, for me, I. I do kind of feel the same way as you. Every.

Everything can be fun because that's what I'm trying to get out of it, you know, because why would I do something that wasn't fun? A lot of times people like, don't you get tired of your jobs? Like, no, I have fun. I love doing this. I love serving people differently from you.

I'm doing it literally, usually because it's a restaurant, so literally being served. And that's just what it means to me. It's fun. I like doing it and I tried to carry that with me everywhere. People just don't understand.

I'm trying to be like Lance Skipper. I think that's true, honestly.

Well, I'm. I'm trying to be like Jesus and, you know, gets resurrected and then takes his boys on the beach for a picnic.

You know, to me, it's Ministry's all that. Right. I've had cases where I've had to. I worked in the medical field most of my adult life and I've had to do.

Many times I found church members passed out and call 91 1, stay all night in the hospital, then go preach or there's been times I've cooked for church members. So the pulpit is just. It's just a portion of it. And I love the pulpit. I love preaching, I love Bible studies.

But being able to be, you know, a bit of positivity on a bad day, even in funerals. Right. How can I make this horrible day to somebody a little bit better? And it starts by saying, I'm going to enjoy this. I'm going to enjoy this. Does.

Do I always succeed at that? No. No, Some. Sometimes I fail. And I'm sitting there and it's like, man, you've gotten too much in your own way. But I always want to.

When I handle this person, even if it's bad, this is going to be a good. Might not be a good outcome because I'm not looking for either good or bad outcome. I'm looking for a good or bad experience.

I'm not going to lose composure. I'm not going to get frustrated. I'm not going to get angry. I'm going to. I'm going to look at it and I'm going to enjoy. Once again, curse me out.

I'm going to enjoy it to the best of my ability because how I handle it, I believe I'm going to be able to prosper in the long run.

Right, because you can't control someone else's actions, but you can control your own reaction.

That's all it is.

Do you have any recommendations for other ministers or like future ministers listening onto how they can best incorporate fun into their ministries?

All right, so if you're a pastor, if you have a church of one person, and I've preached to churches of one people, just one person there, done that multiple times in my ministry. It doesn't matter who's there, it doesn't matter what they're doing. This is an honor to do. If you're ever. If you're able to Preach the gospel.

You're able to teach it, if you're able to share it. Your time is finite. It will not last forever. Enjoy every moment of it. Be grateful for every moment of it.

Because the time's going to pass by and those people that you always counted on being there, they're going to pass away or they're going to move on. Enjoy every. Enjoy every minute of it.

And I'm saying that from my heart because if you get so focused on the business end of worrying about how the church is going to pay their power bill, or who's there, who's not, who's volunteering, who isn't, you're going to miss being in the room with the people that you love, enjoying the one thing that brings us all together, and that is Jesus Christ. And if you're so focused on all the other stuff that will not matter in the next five minutes if someone got upset or whatever, enjoy it.

Because even a bad day, you're going to miss one day because you're going to look back and you're going to say, man, I thought that was a bad experience. This one time, it was a Sunday night, one person showed up, 69 year old woman showed up. And when we got done, you know what we did?

We went to the movies and watched a Dreamworks movie. Just me and this 69 year old woman.

Yeah, you do that a lot, man.

It's fun, man.

You knew that a lot.

You do that a lot.

One person at some church event and you're like, let's go to the movies, man.

Hey man, let's preach this thing. Let's go enjoy. Let's go fellowship. We don't do that enough.

Yeah.

And then it's like, well, people don't want to go to my church. Are you miserable? Like, how can we talk about good news and then yell about how things are bad all the time? The church ain't what it used to be.

That might be your church. My church is great. Right? And even when my church has been down, it's been great.

Because I'm not going to view it through that lens because I want to enjoy it. When I go back, if one person shows up, that's still one person that decided to be there.

Right?

And that's all that matters. If one person listened to you, you're not entitled to that. One person gave you the time for you to share the gospel. You're not entitled to that.

So soak it in. Soak it in and enjoy it because it's priceless.

And Then go watch a movie.

Go watch a movie. Go out, eat. Just don't go home. Be a part.

Yeah, we did that at a state convention one time.

Yeah. The state bishop asked, what did you think about that sermon? I said I wouldn't go watch Toy Story. Yeah.

Yeah, we saw Toy Story 4.

Yeah. I'll cast other ones.

Yeah, it was. It was good, though. It was the worst. Let's not talk about Toy Story 4 now. I want to, but is it overhated? I don't know.

Lance, do you believe that focusing more on ministries of fun and joy would help bring the whole church closer together?

Yes, but I think it's. Once again, we lived in a charged culture. Right. I have to assume that there's people in my church that are Republican.

People that's in my church are Democrat. I have to assume that there are broad groups of people. So what do you do in that situation?

You focus on what you have in common, and that's Jesus Christ. And if you can talk about Jesus Christ and that not bring joy to your heart, then why are you talking about Jesus Christ?

If you're talking about Christ and you're angry and you're mad and everything is horrible and the church and the country is horrible and everything's burning and we just need to start all over. Guys, spoiler alert. If you haven't read the Bible, we win at the end. Everything's going to be okay.

But what people need from believers is for us to be believers, for us not to live in fear, for us not to live in emotion and anger and want to win every debate. Because marriage will teach you this. Being right is not always right.

Sometimes you just need to just be quiet, allow people to say their peace, and then love them. Love them, love them, love them. Let them know that Christ loves them.

I don't have to be right because at the end of the day, I know the Bible's right. And you're not going to change my mind on that. But as long as you're willing to work with me and talk with me and be with me.

So the question of that is, to me, it's all perspective. Will it bring the church together? Well, if you walk into a room and everyone's happy, doesn't that make you want to stay in the room?

Typically.

If a church is a happy, you know, fun, joyful environment where we can even handle conflicts with fun, well, we can walk away from this bad boy and hug each other. That's the type of environment I want to be around. I don't Want people yelling and screaming and. And, you know, your theology is messed up.

Well, it might be, but that can change. It can't change if we run people away.

Right.

And we can still stand on truth. Contrary popular belief, there can be correction done in a loving way.

Yeah.

Yep. It's just there's a lot of people that are too focused on negative feedback. Negative feedback. That's not helpful, man. That's not helpful.

But there's one thing that we always do, and this is one of the few things that hasn't changed since the last time you were on the show. But we still do our God moment. Talk about a moment in our lives where we saw God recently.

Whether it's a blessing or challenge or mode of worship or whatever it is, you saw God there in your life. And I always make Josh go first. So he got out of it this time. He got me this time. So I'll go.

I just have been extremely fortunate these past few days, you know, with the snowstorm, all of that. God provides. I haven't lost power. I lost Internet for a little while. Who cares? I was warm and I didn't go hungry.

That's all I can ask for, you know, And I have a friend who is a teacher for the deaf and blind kids in Spartanburg, and he, because of snow days, got some time off and he's just decided to come spend it with us in our apartment. I think that's awesome.

I think it's great that God is allowing us to have these kinds of experiences at this point in our lives because I know people my age who have, you know, two, maybe three kids, wife, child, they're always busy. And I'm blessed that God allows each of us to live our lives in their own ways. And I wouldn't trade mine for anything.

That's just where I see him is every day. I'm just blessed to be alive the way I'm alive.

So, Lance, do you have a God moment for me and for our listeners and for Josh, eventually, when he edits this.

You know, I think one moment that stands out in my mind is it was a couple weeks ago, had a knock on the door. It was a church, remember who brought me and my family on a trailer and a tire deep freezer full of deer.

And they didn't just give us the deer, they gave us the whole freezer. And that was, to me, unbelievably, just lovely. Just getting phone calls, stuff a lot of times I used to not appreciate.

But someone calling, hey, Pastor, I just want to check on you see how you're doing. Those little things mean so much to me and I see God in them because if they're treating me well, then I know they're treating other people well.

Because a lot of times anyone you could treat bad is your pastor because they can't say nothing. But I man, I am grateful for Christ loving people. Because if you can love Christ first, you can love anybody.

And here, the Walterboro Church, these people are so loving.

I can't tell you since I've been here, seen church members go out and fix people's cars, patch their tire, tire go flat, patch it before they get back at the end of service. So I'm grateful seeing Christ work in the people of the Walterboro Church of God, of prophecy.

There is one more thing before we start wrapping it up, but we always like to ask you, our guest, our honorable guest, to provide one tangible action to help engender church unity. What's something practical that our listeners could stop and do right now to do that to help grow Christian unity right now?

Don't always try to be right. If people are talking to you, listen to have a conversation, not to answer.

So if we all approach this thing knowing that, you know, there's open hand, closed hand, there's certain things that we have to agree on, right? If you say Christ is not the son of God, he is not 100 God, 100 flesh, you lost me. G. We're different.

Yeah, but if you come to me and you, you know, you have more open hand thing, guys can have long hair or something, just pulled out the air, that's fine, whatever, I don't care. I hope there's different theology things that we allow to get in our ways even amongst the same denomination. I'm not looking to be right.

And I think if we come in not trying to win an argument, not trying to be a theologian because you're not trying to be smarter than me, because you probably are smarter than me. But I'm going to love. I'm going to love and I'm going to spread the gospel and I'm going to read His Word, I'm going to go by His Word.

And if we just come to a perspective of as what Jesus said, you will know my disciples by the love they have for one another. If you do that, then unity is possible. But as long as you're trying to be right, you're always going to be wrong.

Mm, mm, mm.

Yeah, they call him preacher cuz he preaches sometimes. But if you, if you like the episode if you didn't like the episode, consider sharing with a friend or an enemy. Share with your cousins.

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It matters a whole lot. They're simple, they're understated, they're comfortable. Check out the other shows on the OWL Podcast Network. The website is in the show notes.

You can find more thoughtful Christian podcasts like the Homily with Will Rose and Chris and Joshua Noel. Let nothing move you with Christian Ashley. Kung Fu Pizza Party with Brandon Knight. We're all over the place.

We're all over the place, but we do hope you enjoyed it.

Coming up, we're going to be talking with Andrew Fouts from Open Doors Canada about church persecution in the world today and what their organization is doing. After that, we're going to be having on Olivia Hasty.

I want to say that's correct, is Hasty to discuss her ministry helping with those dealing with intellectual disabilities in America with the l' Arche Foundation. And then we're going to be having on Michael Morelli, who, honestly, I know Josh was talking about the Vancouver thing earlier.

I think think it's mostly Michael Morelli's fault because he's in Vancouver. But we're discussing the work with his podcast, personalist manifestos and more.

And after that, we're going to have another roundtable discussion on church engagement, focusing on topics like social justice, Christian nationalism with Aaron Simmons, Ben Chica Jill, Elizabeth and some others. And finally, at the end of season one, of course, Francis Chan is going to be on the show. Maybe. Yeah, if he gets invited, he might accept.

And then we can end season one with Francis Chan. So, yeah. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. You know, you're a busy man these days.

Well, thank you for the offer. Do it before 10 years. Have me back home before 10 years. We will.

We absolutely will.