The persecution of Christians around the globe remains a pressing issue that merits our attention and action. In this engaging dialogue, TJ Blackwell interviews Andrew Croft from Open Doors Canada, who elucidates the profound implications of standing in solidarity with our persecuted brethren. By caring for those who face adversity for their faith, we foster a deeper sense of Church unity, transcending denominational divides. Croft shares poignant narratives, including those of individuals who, despite facing grave dangers, are committed to spreading the message of Christ. This conversation not only highlights the importance of awareness surrounding global persecution but also emphasizes the necessity of collective support within the body of Christ, urging listeners to take tangible steps in solidarity with their fellow believers worldwide.

A profound examination of the global persecution of Christians unfolds in the latest discourse hosted by TJ Blackwell with the esteemed Andrew Croft of Open Doors Canada. The conversation pivots around the scriptural admonition from 1 Peter 4:12-16, urging believers not to be astonished by trials, but rather to embrace them as a shared suffering with Christ. Andrew elucidates on the significance of this shared experience in fostering a spirit of unity within the Church. Through their dialogue, they delve into the essence of communal suffering, as a catalyst for authentic relationships among Christians. Andrew emphasizes that such solidarity not only fortifies individual faith but also enhances the collective witness of the Church amidst adversity. The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the vital connection between understanding the plight of persecuted Christians and nurturing a unified body of believers worldwide. Furthermore, the conversation highlights the imperative for the global Church to remain cognizant of its suffering members, thereby cultivating an environment of empathy, support, and actionable prayer, reinforcing the notion that when one part of the body suffers, all members are affected.

Takeaways:

1. The discussion centers around the biblical perspective on suffering, emphasizing that Christians should not be surprised by persecution but rather embrace it as a shared experience of faith.
2. Caring for persecuted Christians globally fosters a sense of unity within the Church, as all believers are members of the same body and share in each other's struggles.
3. The importance of being informed about global Christian persecution is underscored, as it helps believers recognize their connection to the wider Christian family and encourages solidarity and support.
4. Andrew Croft recounts inspiring stories of individuals like Evangelist Cho, who risk their lives to share the Gospel, illustrating the resilience and faith of Christians in oppressive contexts.
5. The podcast highlights the necessity of prayer and action, encouraging listeners to sign petitions advocating for persecuted Christians, thereby demonstrating their support and solidarity.
6. The episode concludes with a call for practical steps believers can take to promote church unity, such as loving those who oppose them, thereby embodying the teachings of Christ.

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First Peter 4, 12, 16 in the Christian Standard Bible says, dear friends, don't be surprised when the fiery ordeal comes among you to test you as if something unusual were happening to you. Instead, rejoice as you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may also rejoice with great joy when his glory is revealed.

If you are ridiculed in the name of Christ, you are blessed be because the saint of glory of God rests on you. Let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or a meddler.

But if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in having that name.

Right before this prick P the author has written about how the church should not participate in party lifestyles, drunkenness, orgies, unrestrained behaviors, etc. The author then discusses how the church should share with one another in Gifts of Speaking and in Love.

Here the writer talks about sharing in suffering together before going on after this to talk about the role of elders and church polity. Andrew Croft how my sharing in our suffering together better help us decide how to organize our churches.

Well, I think that when we think about scripture and how, how the church itself, when it started, you know, they, they shared everything. They were together and that was a church that was suffering, right? And, and they figured out that they were stronger together.

And so if we can figure out that when we suffer together that we, we share one another burdens, we help one another, that's only going to help us to continue with the faith, to be strengthened in the faith, to encourage one another. You know, Hebrews says one another daily as long as it's called today. Right?

And so when we share our sufferings with one another, we hit a more authentic level of relationship with each other.

And so I think it's really important that we are transparent and open with one another, that we share our sufferings so that we can strengthen one another. Good answer, Good answer.

What is up guys? Welcome to the Whole Church Podcast. Hopefully your favorite church unity podcast. If not, no big deal. You know, that's kind of the point.

We don't want to sow discord, but I am your host today, TJ Blackwell. Sadly absent of Joshua Noel, my co host. He has been beset by bad work schedule.

We've all been there before, but I'm joined today by the one and only Andrew Croft. Welcome back. It's been a while. How are you doing?

I'm doing well. Thank you very much for having me back on the podcast. Happy to be here and to Chat with you. You know, too bad that Josh can't be here, but.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it happens. I missed last week. You know, sometimes we just can't get it done.

But Andrew Croft, you are the communications and relations manager with the Open Doors Canada. You guys cover church persecution around the world. Good. Good company. Good thing to listen to. We'll talk more about him later.

And if we don't answer some of your questions, he's been on the show before, so, you know, just covering our own backs. But go to our website, purchase one of our T shirts.

It helps promote the show, it helps raise money for podcasting needs and lets others know about the importance of our mission to educate and unite the modern shirt. My favorite one is the TJ quote on the back. It just has a logo on the front, and there's nothing on the back. Perfect. It's a great shirt.

Super comfy, washes well, wears well. So, Andrew, do you remember the silly question, the most important sacrament we do here on the show? Silliness.

I do.

Silliness. So, super most important part of the show, if instead of a last meal you were offered a last prank, who would you prank, and what would the prank be?

I can go first.

Oh, please do.

You can go first. Yeah. My favorite idea for a prank ever was for, like, you know, a high school senior prank. I don't know if you guys do that, but I. I didn't have.

I didn't have the courage to do it, but I was in the rotc, and I really desperately wanted to sneak into the school one night overnight and just cover one of the. I guess they're teachers, but feels weird to say teacher for. For those Air Force guys. But I wanted to just cover their office floor in concrete.

What?

Just like an inch of concrete. Oh, I hope they like where everything is, because they could never move it again. That.

That's.

That's for me. My last prank. Sorry, Colonel Concrete.

That would be so. Well, it's so rough. I think you'd get in a lot of trouble for that.

Oh, yeah. That's why I couldn't do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Pranks for me are hard to think about. I. I'm not a huge prank person.

We like to have fun in our office and try to do little things. Recently, I have. I was at a store, and I saw, like, these hundred mini. Mini ducks. Like, tiny little ducks. And I was gonna.

I'm gonna buy them next time. I know someone is going on vacation, and I'm just gonna hide 100 mini ducks in their office and see how long it takes to find all 100.

Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. You need to get one extra duck. Yeah, well, you need to get one extra or one less. Don't hide one of them.

Yeah, they can't. They can't find.

Yeah, if they keep counting, they find 99 ducks, they're gonna go insane.

Yeah, that would be a L, you know? Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's okay.

100. Is there really a hundred here? How many were in the package?

Who knows? But that's a good answer. I like that answer. That's a classic. That's a modern classic. So for the. For the real show, as you usually call it.

But, Andrew, it's been some time since we've had you on. Would you mind catching us and our listeners up on what you've been up to personally and what Open Doors Canada has been up to in the last year?

Yeah. So, I mean, since the last time I was on here, I mean, I'm still at Open Doors.

I'm still in the same role originally when you brought me on the podcast, because I hosted a podcast that Open Doors ran. It was called the World Watch Weekly Podcast and eventually became the Open Doors Canada Podcast. We have actually just brought that to a close.

I'm no longer doing our podcast simply because we just have other things that we are pursuing. So we now have an online YouTube show, like a webisode called the Archway. We do that, like, every two months. We put out an episode. It's. It's a real.

It's a deep dive into persecution and what it's like, and it shares stories from persecuted Christians. And so people can always, if they're interested, can check that out on our YouTube channel, Open Doors Canada.

And so that's kind of one of the things in terms of podcasts and YouTube, that's kind of new for me. But as a ministry, we continue to strengthen Christians where faith costs the most.

We work in more than 70 countries around the world and continue to do that by providing Bibles, training, Christian community development, kind of whatever the persecuted church needs. We try to provide and strengthen them so that they can remain where they are and be salt and light for Jesus.

All right. Do you feel like the. The YouTube show is that, like, easier, harder than, like, a more regular podcast?

It is different. So there's that. Which kind of like, when it's something new and different, there's more energy towards it can be more towards it.

It's Also much less frequent, and so it's a little easier in that sense. It's not like when we.

When we started the podcast, it was like, every week, and so now we have to do something every week, and then just like, what are we gonna do? And whereas this, it's like we have a set kind of content that we want to cover. And so it's. It's easier.

We have a starting point, and we just have to make it into what we want to present. And that's helpful. And so we'll see.

I mean, YouTube gives you a lot of stats, so it's also easier to see how many views and how long people are paying attention to it and stuff like that. So that's good.

Yeah, it's kind of obtuse for, like, podcasts, if you want to know, like, actually everything about your metrics. It's not that easy to get that information.

It's.

It's kind of. It's kind of rough. But, you know, we're not. We're not big YouTube guys. We're not great at it.

We're gonna try and stay mostly audio and, you know, just odd podcasting. We'll throw the video up sometimes.

Well, the method. I didn't have to pay attention to what I look like today, so.

Yeah, yeah, it is nice. It's a nice bonus. Plus, it's way easier, you know, the video.

But could you remind us or our listeners why it's vital for the whole church to stay informed on church persecution around the world?

Yeah, certainly. So, I mean, the Bible talks about there being one body, one church, one body. And so when one part suffers, we all suffer with it.

When one part rejoices, we all. Or one part is honored, we all rejoice with it. Right? And so I think it's just. It's important to recognize that we are the same body of believers.

We're one church.

And not only that, I mean, Jesus, in Mark, chapter three, he's asked his mom and brothers show up to where he's preaching, and someone says, oh, your mother and brother are outside. And Jesus says, who are my mother members? It's not like he forgot who they were.

It's like he then goes on to say, anyone who does the will of my father is my. Is my mother, brother, sister, right? They're. They're my family member. And so these are family members.

When we think about the whole church, we are a family, right?

And so as a family, sometimes you have closer relationships with specific members of your family, but you do want to Know everyone in your family, and you should want to know and treat everyone in your family equally. Right. And so I think those things are really important to recognize.

And so it's important because also because when we look at the global church, we get, we get a whole perspective. Right. It's very easy if we just focus on our local community or our local context, we can get a very tinted focus on scripture. Right.

We miss what the global church is reading. How does a Christian understand this scripture in China or in sub Saharan Africa vs Canada or the United States? Right.

And, and so it helps us get a well rounded understanding so that we're not just reading it from our own context and missing perhaps what God is actually saying to the church.

All right, and how might this help with ecumenicism?

Well, I think it's that, that same thing. Right.

Like, I think that we're very good at breaking up into our own groups, but when we actually dialogue with, with people from other denominations, it helps us get different perspectives on different scriptures, which can then help us come to a better understanding. Right.

Like, we tend to look at scripture very personalized and individual, but like you read through scripture and most of like the New Testament is written to groups of people, not individuals. And so it was meant to be read to a group and talked and discussed.

And so when we can talk and discuss with people with different perspectives, it helps us make sure that we haven't gone off on a tangent that is outside of where scripture is supposed to be taking us.

Right, Right. So, you know, we don't do this a lot, but open doors. You guys are focused about, you know, the entire world.

So are there like, any good stories you've heard over the, you know, the past, you know, couple of years about Christians who are suffering for the sake of the gospel and say good stories? I don't mean like, you know, it's not a good story, but, well, there's,

there's lots things to be aware of. Yeah, there's lots of things to talk about when it comes to the persecuted church around the world. What's happening?

And so just because I've shared that on the podcast before, I want to bring that up again to remind people to be praying for Leah to be praying for her family who just, you know, want to see her again. And so that's something I just want to mention, but I do want to. I think there's a lot of stories.

We constantly get stories coming out of our persecuted church. And, you know, there was one story that we've been talking about recently. And I mean, I'll share names, but.

But these names are our pseudonyms for the sake of the person. But we've been recently sharing the story of a man named Evangelist Cho.

An Evangelist Cho was a Chinese Christian, and he would go out every week into the forests near the North Korean border looking for people who had escaped from North Korea.

And when he found them, like, he would provide for them whatever he could help them with, shelter, food, and just try to help them because they're in the forest, they're scared. They're afraid to meet someone because they. For all they know, he's going to send them back to North Korea. Right. But that's what he did.

And then he'd also give them a Bible. And there's one story particularly that we're talking about of this young couple he meets. He gives them a Bible, and.

And they're like, oh, we don't want that. We don't want anything to do with that. And he's like, well, it's yours. You don't have to read it, but you keep it.

And, you know, he keeps going back and finding them in the forest because they don't really have anywhere to go. And he's trying to support them. And the one day the woman says, I had a dream last night, and this man in white shows up.

And I think it was the man this book is talking about. And so they come to. I begin to understand the Christian faith. And Evangelist Cho ends up being able to take them to a safe house where they're just.

Where they learn more about Jesus. They come to faith in Christ. And then they feel.

This couple feel God saying, hey, go back to North Korea, because you have to tell people about Jesus. And so this couple goes back to North Korea, and Evangelist Cho gets a secret message.

Like, very hard to get a message across the border, but he gets a secret message. And it just says, simply says, our family has grown to five. And that's not, you know, biological family.

That's the family of Christ because they've led three other people to Jesus. And so that's an incredible story from my perspective. Like, North Korea is the most dangerous place to be a Christian in the world.

It's illegal to be Christian, if you're found out, you're likely to be thrown into a prison camp. And yet this couple who had escaped found Jesus and said, no, I need to go back, because other North Koreans need to hear about him.

And so I think that's a pretty incredible story. I think another area of the world I'd want to talk about is Sub Saharan Africa. Sub Saharan Africa is in the middle of a bit of a crisis.

Well, definitely a crisis. It's the most violent place for Christians in the world.

More Christians are killed in Sub Saharan Africa than anywhere else, everywhere else combined, actually, for their faith, I should say. And then there's, There's. Right now there's more than 16.2 million Christians who are living as internally displaced people.

So they've had to flee their homes for one reason or another. Sometimes it's because of persecution, other times it's other things.

But 16.2 million of our brothers and sisters who are displaced living in displacement camps or in, in. In not very good conditions. And so that's a huge concern. And something that we've been talking about. We've been sharing a couple of stories.

One is of a guy named Pastor Barnabas. He had to flee his home and he ended up in a camp.

And because they were Christian, they actually ended up making their own camp because they weren't being treated so well in the other camp. And so he's pastoring. There's like a thousand people in this camp. And he says, you know, they're all Christians.

They're all fled because of the violence against them. And he's living, or he was living in a.

We have this video of him showing his tent, and it's a 5 by 5 by 5 foot tent, not big enough for a double mattress. He and his entire family are living in this. Actually, some of his kids have to live with the neighbor because they can't all fit in the tent.

And so he's talking about this and yet he's ministering to these people. And he's saying, you know, I'm. I'm displaced as well, and I don't know what to do, but my eyes are on. Our eyes are on God.

We're looking for his help now.

Thankfully, we recently got a story that through the ministry and the work that we're doing, Pastor Barnabas has actually been able to move into a house, which is incredible. He's still pastoring and helping other displaced believers.

But it's, It's a real crisis that we're talking about something that we Want to, I want to mention, make sure people are aware of it. Praying for our brothers and sisters in Sub Saharan Africa.

That kind of resilience is so important too, in, in the world at large. The ability to.

Good word.

To, to get displaced and stay strong and lead others. It's really incredible. So we'll keep Pastor Barnabas in our minds, you know, for as long as we need to, probably forever.

Are there any, like, large missions or fundraisers going on right now that our listeners around the world might be able to help with?

Yeah. So going back to Sub Saharan Africa, right now, we are in the middle of this campaign called Arise Africa.

And as part of Arise Africa, the church in Sub Saharan Africa has asked us to raise a million prayers and voices for them to speak out. And so we have this petition called Leaves of Healing petition.

It's on leavesofhealing.org doesn't matter what country you're from, you can go and sign it. The church in Sub Saharan Africa has asked us for a million. We're right now at 400, almost 450,000. So we're about halfway there.

We are really pushing to get to a million. Would love for your listeners to say, yeah, you know what, I need to add my name to this.

So a couple years ago, a group of church leaders in Sub Saharan Africa got together and they wrote this document. And in this document, it was a declaration on the situation for Christians in Sub Saharan Africa.

They list a whole bunch of things, but one of the things that was in there that's really stood out to me, it said this, it said, the church in Sub Saharan Africa feels alone and unheard of. We are afraid that the global church is unaware of this plight of the persecuted church.

And so when I read that, alone and unheard, these are our family members, our brothers and sisters, and yet they feel alone. They feel like the church across the globe is not paying attention to them, doesn't know what's happening to them, is not supporting them.

And so that's, to me, is the reason that I would say that every one of your listeners need to go to leavesofhealing.org and sign this petition. Because, yeah, this petition is going to be taken to the un it's going to be taken to different governing bodies across the globe.

We're going to be taking it to ours in Canada. I'm pretty sure that it'll be taken to government in the US and that's great, and that's important.

But the other thing to me that is really important is that when we hit 1 million signatures.

It shows the church in Sub Saharan Africa that they are not alone and that they are not unheard, that we actually are paying attention, that we are praying for them, that we're standing with them amidst the violence that they're facing, amidst the difficulties that are coming down on them because of their faith in Jesus, that we see them as brothers and sisters. And so I think that's just so important, and that's the thing I would tell people to do.

The easiest thing you could do today in response to listening to this podcast is, is get. Sign that petition. Get others to sign that petition. Help us to get to a million and show the church in Sub Saharan Africa that they're not alone.

All right.

Yeah, we'll definitely put that link in the description for this episode, but I feel like that is one of the things that people don't think about as one of the effects of church division is we're so busy worried about what the church down the street is doing, that neither church is worried about Sub Saharan Africa or North Korea. They don't know.

You know, they have no idea that there are Christians who are going through much worse than the church down the street doesn't believe in baby baptism. So, you know, hopefully we'll solve all those problems. You know, a united front to help the Christians who really need help. That would be nice.

Well, yeah, that would be great. A united front would be great. That would be great. I feel like there's something in the Bible about that.

Yeah, Something, somewhere, something we could be like.

It could be one whole church. Yeah. Yeah. I think someone important said that maybe.

Who knows? Bible's so long. Who's ever read it? But there is. If you have anything else to say.

We've kind of powered through things here without Josh to get sidetracked, but if you have anything else to say before we get into the ending stuff, now is the time.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I could. I could talk for a long, long time.

You know, every year, Open Doors does research into persecution, and we produce what's called the World Watch List. It's an annual ranking of the 50 most dangerous countries to be a Christian.

And so along with signing a petition, I would encourage your listeners go to their law, go to their local Open Doors.

So whether it's Open Doors US or Open Doors Canada, or if they're from another country across the globe, you might have an Open Doors near you as well. And. And get. Get a copy of the World Watch List because it. It's. It's a Guide to help you pray.

It really guides your prayers for the church around the world. It shows you the top 50 most dangerous countries and then it's, yeah, here's what's happening. And then it helps you guide your prayers. Right.

And it's really important that we're praying for the whole church. And so I would encourage people to do that as well.

That's right. Yeah, definitely.

That.

We'll probably, I don't know if we can do like one of the SEO tricks to just make it link to everyone's local open doors. But we can put the open doors link in the show notes too.

Yeah. You know, if you put opendoors.org that will take them to a generic one which will allow them to go to their local one. Open doors. Co. Org.

Cool. So we'll do that. OpenDoors.org support your local open doors.

You know, but before we do start to wrap up, there's one thing that we like to do, and that is ask you, our guests, to provide a tangible action to help better engender church unity. And what's something practical that our listeners could stop and do right now to better help engender Christian unity?

Okay. A tangible action to help with Christianity.

Yeah, the tangibility is usually the hard part.

Yeah, Well, I mean, okay, I just told you about the world watch list.

I think that if you are learning about and praying for Christians in other countries, that is going to help you to view the church as one body, which will help you to be more unified even in your local context. But, you know, I, I'll do, I'll do this other one as well. Slightly not, not really related to persecution a little bit.

I'm preaching at a church on Sunday and they said, hey, can you preach on love? Because this, when we're recording this Sunday is the Sunday after Valentine's Day. So. Okay.

And I'm like, I, I'm the type of person that like, say, hey, why don't you just give me the Bible verse, like the scripture you want me to preach on? And then I'll. But like the top, like, okay, love.

And so I'm actually preaching from Luke chapter six, where, where Jesus says, love your enemies and then do good to. Oh, goodness, I'm about to preach this. I should know it.

Sorry. It's okay. You got it.

Do good to those who hate you. Do good to those who hate you. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who mistreat you.

And I think that if the church could actually get around this, around their head, that. Wait Jesus actually told us not to react with our human nature, but to do almost the opposite.

Because when someone hates you, human nature is to hate them back, but actually to do good.

And if we could get that as believers, as individuals, as a church, like as your local body of believers, if you could live this out, that is only going to make you more unified with the next local group of believers. Because if they don't like you and they think that you're preaching heresy or something, and you react with them in love, how are they going to.

How can they respond to that other than saying, wait a minute, they are actually exemplifying Jesus? And so I think that if we could.

If we could truly get what Jesus says about loving our enemies, doing good to those who hate us, blessing those who curse us, and praying for those who mistreat us, I think that would be a huge step in helping us to be better unified as a church.

All right, I agree. I would have said, just sign the leaves of healing.org petition for my tangible action.

Fair enough.

Yeah, you've got three.

And unify yourself with the church in sub Saharan Africa and let them know that they're not alone.

Yep. So we'll all do that. We will all do that. And then we like to do our God moment, if you remember.

We like to wrap up by asking everyone where they've seen God recently in their lives, whether it's a blessing challenge, moment of worship, whatever it may be. I'll go first to give you some time to think.

Usually I'd make Josh go first to give me some time to think, but I'm not always afforded that privilege.

So.

It was actually my mother's picture 57th birthday this past week. And, you know, we. We go through a lot. You know, she's been ill, he's been feeble, enfeebled, I guess. But, you know, she's so happy on her birthday.

You know, we're all spending time together as a big family. It's great. It's a good time.

And it's only possible because of God, because, you know, she's was in and out of the hospital kind of a lot last year, but so far we're good for this year, hopefully next year and the one after that and so on and so forth, but super blessed. She got a new car. Pretty sweet. And the health stuff is good, too.

Good. Very good. I hear you. I understand. My family has been a very similar situation with my mother's health, so. Yeah. Okay. So a God moment for me.

You know, we've recently at our church, we have a midweek program that we go to and my daughter has, was trying to memorize the memory verse for last week. She, I mean there were some, let's say not exactly pure motivation behind it because there's some, you know, rewards.

But that's okay because she's nine and but she wanted to do it. And just to see her trying to learn it also meant that my 12 year old learned it.

And I mean I already kind of knew it, but it reminded me and it reinforced it in me.

And so just to see how God uses that thing for My daughter, my 9 year old and to help scripture get into the hearts of like our entire family is pretty cool to see how God can work that way. And so yeah, that would be my God.

That's just cheating. Make the youngest one learn something and then everyone else will just learn it by osmosis. Yeah, it's not fair. Power, powerful tool. Children are.

Yeah. For those who are wondering what verse it is, he who's seated on the throne said, behold, I'm making all things new.

So from Revelation, which my daughter, my 9 year old kept calling creation wild toys.

That's a wild choice for a nine year old's memory verse. It's like, oh yeah, we're doing Revelations now. But it's still a good verse. What a selection.

So before we wrap up, Andrew, where can they find more of you? OpenDoors.org Anything else?

Yeah. So OpenDoors.org will take you to your local Open Doors affiliate. I guess is the lack of better word so that you can find out more. Definitely.

Go to leavesofhealing.org and sign the petition. Doesn't matter what country you're from. We're trying to get Christians from across the globe to do this.

And yeah, I mean if you want to know more about Open Doors Canada or if you want to check out our our webisode YouTube episode called the Archway, it's open door@YouTube.com opendoorscanada all right.

And if you enjoyed the episode, thank you. If you didn't enjoy the episode, I'm sorry. And either way, please consider sharing with a friend or an enemy or a cousin, one of the other.

Andrew, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for all listening. Check out our website. Purchase a T shirt.

Like I said earlier, mine is my favorite one is the one with my name on it because my name is not actually on the shirt. It's pretty sweet. Check out the other shows that are on our network.

The Onaza podcast network on the website in the show notes to find more thoughtful Christian shows. And we hope you enjoyed it.

Coming up, we're taking a week off for Joshua's birthday anniversary week, which, if I'm right, by the time this releases because we had to reschedule this so many times, has actually already passed.

So in the future, we'll be having Olivia Hasty on to discuss her ministry in helping with those dealing with intellectual disabilities in America through l'.

Arche.

He'll be having on Michael Morelli to discuss his work with his podcast, Personalist Manifestos and more.

After that, we're gonna have another roundtable discussion on church engagement, focusing on topics like social justice and Christian nationalism with Aaron Simmons, Ben Chica to Elizabeth, and a couple other surprise guests at the end of season one, of course, will be Francis Chan. Maybe. Maybe we'll see one day. One day. But once again, thank you for your time. It means a lot to us that you're just listening. Consider subscribing.

It's like the. The other best thing you can do. But thank you. Thank you, Andrew, for being willing to reschedule this so many times.

This.

This one was rough. I think this is the most we've ever rescheduled anything.

That's all right. Thank you very much, TJ for having me on and for a good conversation.

Anytime.