This episode marks the beginning of a new series on Systematic Geekology, titled "Finding the Good in the Other," as we dive into the theme of polarization. Our hosts, Joshua Noel, Elizabeth Pangalangan Clyde, and Reverend Laura Wittman, engage in a lively discussion about the Pokémon universe, specifically focusing on the deities Arceus, Dialga, and Palkia, to explore deeper philosophical questions about time, space, and their implications for our understanding of God. The conversation highlights how our language reflects our priorities, whether it be regarding time or space, and encourages listeners to reflect on their own experiences and beliefs. As this is Reverend Laura's first episode as a regular host, her insights on community and the relational aspects of faith add a rich dimension to the dialogue. Join us as we navigate these intriguing themes and challenge ourselves to find the good in differing perspectives.

The latest episode of Systematic Geekology marks the beginning of a significant new series titled "Finding the Good in the Other," focusing on the theme of polarization. This episode features a dynamic discussion among hosts Joshua Noel, Elizabeth Pangalangan Clyde, and Reverend Laura Wittman as they delve into the fascinating world of Pokémon Legends: Arceus. The conversation highlights the interplay between the game’s themes of time and space, represented by the Diamond and Pearl clans, and how these reflect broader societal issues of division and understanding. The hosts explore how the characters' perceptions of their gods—Dialga and Palkia—serve as a metaphor for real-world disagreements, inviting listeners to consider how empathy and dialogue can bridge these divides.

As they analyze the lore of Pokémon, particularly the origins of Arceus as the creator, the hosts draw parallels between the game's narrative and theological concepts, including reflections on the nature of God in relation to time and space. Reverend Laura, making her regular hosting debut, adds depth to the discussion with her insights on community and the importance of recognizing the divine in various contexts. Together, they tackle the challenge of finding common ground amidst differing beliefs, emphasizing the significance of love and connection in overcoming polarization. The episode not only entertains but also encourages listeners to reflect on their own perspectives and the ways they engage with others in an increasingly divided world.

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Takeaways:

• The new annual theme of polarization aims to explore finding good in others.
• Discussion centers on the relationship between time, space, and our understanding of God.
• Engaging with community can enhance our worship experiences and deepen our faith.
• The importance of language in expressing our beliefs and values cannot be underestimated.
• Worship is not limited to church; it can occur anywhere we seek God.
• The concept of God existing outside of time presents intriguing philosophical debates.

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We discuss all this and more in this one! Join in the conversation with us on Discord now!

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Support our show on Captivate or Patreon, or by purchasing a comfy T-Shirt in our store!

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Check out our series from last year's annual theme, "Religions in our Fandom":

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/928f3957-942d-45c7-b8ed-cd9647468a45

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Don't miss any of our other gaming episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/409f2d81-9857-4426-b1f0-d8a02e58b150

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Listen to all of Joshua's episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/642da9db-496a-40f5-b212-7013d1e211e0

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Check out other episodes with Liz:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/b4feaf6c-e817-4e86-b6f3-e13c0abc7147

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Don't miss any of Laura's episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/a5e92f29-d8b1-4945-96c8-16b5bf4626c2

Mentioned in this episode:

The SG Store

Check out the SG store for exclusive merch!

Systematic Geekology Store

Check out the Anazao Ministries Podcast (AMP) Network on Spotify or Apple Podcast!

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Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Discord

Come geek out with us on Discord!

Foreign.

Is the almighty Snow, the God of time, space, or something else entirely.

And is that even how you pronounce that?

I don't really know.

Hey, guys.

Welcome back to Systematic Geekology.

We are the Priest of the Geeks, and we are excited to announce a new annual theme.

It's a new year.

We have a new theme this year.

Last year, our theme was religion in our fandoms.

And what different religions are made up in our fandoms.

Where do we see real religions in the fandoms?

And we had a fun time with that.

This year we're talking about polarization and finding the good in the other.

So that's our theme this year.

Hopefully it's not a theme in real life, but it might be.

We'll see.

And this is gonna be a really fun episode for all of this because not only are we tying in last year's theme to this year's theme, because, like, there's a little bit of religion and Pokemon.

Arceus is what we're gonna talk about today.

But also, if you remember the year before that, the first time we had an annual theme, our theme was Origins, and there's also a little bit of that in there.

So this is kind of all three annual themes in once, just kind of mixed together.

So we're gonna have fun with this.

I'm Joshua Noel.

I'm here.

I'm excited to talk about this game.

This is actually is what I've been geeking out on because I knew we were doing this and I'm slow at playing games because I'll play like a large portion at a time and then not play for a few days and then do it again.

So this is what I've been geeking out on for like, the last month and a half.

Just been replaying this game and it's been great.

And I am joined with the one and only, the.

The maybe almighty isn't right.

The most mighty wonderful Liz Pangalingen.

Clyde, how's it going?

What are you geeking out on?

We are choosing Violence today.

So any.

You know what?

Let's geek out on Attack on Titans when everyone's about to die, because that sounds delightful right now.

That was actually really fun.

I actually really enjoyed that part, even though it upset some other people anyway.

And we are also here with one of our newer hosts, the wonderful, the saintly.

I don't know.

I'm just trying to come up with random action adjectives.

Reverend Laura Whitman.

How's it going?

It's going great.

What are you geeking out On Today.

So I'm always geeking out on something, but lately my ADHD hyperfocus has been crocheting because it has been cold.

And what better thing to do when it's cold than to just crochet everything?

And I mean everything.

So lots of that.

That's my geek thing right now.

That's fair.

Yeah, the ADHD hyper focus, geek geeking.

That's.

That's real.

That's so real.

Oh, man.

All right, so guys, if you're on your laptop, do us a favor.

Please consider rating and reviewing our show on podchaser or goodpod, specifically one of those two websites.

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And that's free support.

You can.

It just takes you a couple seconds and we appreciate it a lot, but we also appreciate less free support.

So you can sponsor our show on Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon.

And we're going to do a big shout out to Jonathan Augustin.

You rock, man.

We appreciate the heck out of you, dude.

And remember, if you guys would like your own shout out like Jonathan just got, you can support our show for $3 a month on one of those three platforms, Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon.

So check that out.

We don't have a playlist for the annual theme yet because this is the first episode in the series.

So it'd be kind of weird to have a playlist.

But we'll have it soon.

Keep checking out.

Next month we will be back with more.

I think magic versus science is next in our polarization theme, so it'll be fun.

But without further ado, we're gonna get into Pokemon Legends, Arceus.

All right, guys, who wants to take a crack at this?

Because, you know, originally we were gonna have a few other hosts.

I was gonna make TJ do it because I like to make TJ do things.

But who wants to try to, you know, the Pokemon gods, you know, Arceus Dialga, maybe.

I don't know how to say these words.

Palkia in Giratina.

I just felt like I had to try, so hopefully I said them all wrong.

But it's like when you read Bible names, you're Just if you say it fast and quick, people believe you.

If you do what I just did, you sound dumb no matter what.

Even if you got it right, you.

Just have to say it with authority and say it fast before anybody can question it.

You know how you roll with it.

But, yeah.

Did anybody want to try and take a crack at, like, explaining who these gods were in Pokemon are?

I think they were all introduced in the Diamond Pearl generation.

So it's like Gen 4, maybe.

Gen 4, yeah.

I mean, Arceus is like the main God, like the original, who then created.

I'm going to say them wrong to Dialga.

I now have everybody questioning it.

Yeah, No, I was really sure, and now I'm not.

But Dialga and Palkia, who are twins, I believe.

Right.

Is that correct?

And then, of course, common knowledge.

Dialga being the God of time and change, and Palkia the God of power and space.

And then there's a third who is Giratina, the God of death, and who was sort of sent away to a shadowy place and is angry.

So those are.

That's my understanding, at least, of the breakdown of who they are.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like explaining the Trinity.

Right.

They're not quite co.

Eternal, though.

Not Trinity, like, but that's it.

Yeah, Yeah.

I think it's fun, too.

So that's part of what's really fun about Pokemon.

Arceus is like, it came out so much further on after we've already played.

Like, everyone's played diamond and Pearl at this point.

Right.

So, like, whenever Arceus comes around, you have a lot of irony where the characters in game don't know about some of these Pokemon gods that we do know about.

So they keep talking about the Great Sinnoh, and we're like, that's just the name of the land you guys live on.

Right.

But, like, the player has played through diamond and Pearl assumedly.

So we kind of know that the Pokemon gods are kind of set up this way.

So what happens in game is we have these two different tribes.

Diamond and Pearl are the names of the clans.

Of course, you know, because that's not on the nose at all.

This game was very on the nose with a lot of stuff.

It was not apologetic at all for it.

It was great.

And, you know, the diamond of.

Is worshiping Sano, who is clearly the God of time.

That's who the real God is.

And then the Pearl clan is.

No, actually, he's the God of space.

That's the real God.

Snow is actually space.

And, you know, they have this whole Debate.

Meanwhile, the player is like, we've already done this and the real God made both of those things, and those are like demigods.

So, like, from the player's perspective, you get a little bit of irony as you go through this game and you're like, man, if they only knew.

Liz, do you have anything to add to this part of the kind of like the backdrop of what's happening in the game?

I played the game and that's it.

That's what I added.

Did you play diamond and Pearl back in the day?

Like you had the same experience?

I mean, I didn't know if you played Arceus.

I thought you were talking about Arceus, since that's what we're talking about.

No, I'm just.

I don't know, I can't remember too much.

But also, you're catching me.

When I came home, I just felt traffic and I had technical problems, so my brain is right now fried.

So we are catching up.

Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah.

So I will interject as you guys carry the weight of this episode.

Appreciate you.

Fair enough.

All right, so with that, that's kind of what we have going on in this game.

We know.

If I remember right, Arceus was born in an egg, then he hatched and created like all of the world and all the other Pokemon and etc.

We already know this in game, the characters don't, but your character in the game is from the future.

So I kind of assume that our character does know also.

But he doesn't really speak in the game.

For some reason.

He just shakes his head yes or no the entire time almost.

That might have been.

The only thing that really frustrated me about the game actually is I'm like, why?

Why is our character just not a character?

Did you guys feel any of that or were you guys just kind of like, yeah, whatever, I'm here to catch Pokemon.

Yeah, it was whatever.

I'm just here to catch Pokemon.

I never really cared about, like the in depth things, and I play for completion, so I just go straight for the goal.

Ah.

The funny thing is, I'll be the heretic in this episode and admit that I never finished the game, but I really love the story and the background of the game.

So it's.

I'm coming from the opposite direction.

But I never finished it.

Mostly because after a certain point, I just got tired of looking at fields and looking at the same Pokemon and having to follow the Pokedex like 15 different ways rather than just catching Pokemon and then being happy with it.

See, I Like, that part, though, I.

I literally have never cared about the Pokedex until this game, because it's always like, did you catch them all?

Did you not catch them all?

And I'm like, eh, I'm just gonna catch the ones I want.

Why am I going through all this extra effort?

I don't know.

I just felt like I was having to do extra work, which you are.

But I felt like I was being graded on my Pokemon Mastery.

I think that's what it was.

I think that makes sense.

Cause, like, you're definitely being graded, and it's just kind of like my schooling.

I started doing a lot better in school.

Whenever you hit the Blackboard app, and all of a sudden, when I've opened my app, I either see, like, my grade number in green, yellow, or red, and then I'm like, hold up.

What do you mean I'm yellow?

I'll show you yellow.

Like, I'm just, like, so competitive with myself that whenever I get, like, something visual that I'm like, oh, I could do better than that.

Which is kind of.

I don't know.

It feeds my little lizard brain.

And that's what happened at this game.

I feel like is like, I never care about the Pokedex.

And then all of a sudden, it's like, well, you've only partially filled out your Pokede Pikachu.

And I'm like, hold up.

Now I know more about Pikachu than anybody.

So naturally, I had to complete, like, completely complete the Pikachu entry and some of the other entries.

And I don't know, I had fun with some of it.

Some of it did get really tedious.

I don't know.

Part of what I liked about the game too, though, was like, I think this is the first time they did that where, like, the world, the open world thing, like, you weren't just fight Pokemon, catch Pokemon.

Sometimes it was easier or better try and sneak up on a Pokemon so they don't run away.

And, like, you're actually interacting physically as a person with the Pokemon.

I loved that, and I loved all, like, the little, hey, now we know how Pokeballs are built.

Or how.

This was, like, the first iteration of that.

And then not only do you get some of the fun origin stuff, the other thing I really liked about this game was, like, how many nods they had to, like, us OG players, where it's like, I can buy a link cord, and that's gonna make my graveler evolve to the Golem.

And I'm like, yep, yeah, this is great.

And then, like, part of me also wondered, though, I'm like, are kids?

But, like, what the hell is a link cord?

Or like, is this just for.

For me, why is this here?

But, you know, some of that was fun for me.

What about you guys?

Is there anything that you guys, like, liked, didn't like, loved, could pass up on?

I mean, obviously Rev and Laura got bored, so there's some stuff she could probably pass on.

I should also say I do have severe adhd.

So, like, if something doesn't capture me instantly, I' like, eh.

Which is funny because I don't usually have that problem with Pokemon games at the same side.

You know, I love that Pokemon games are familiar and that I know exactly what to expect.

I will say one of the things that I liked about this game was the mechanic of how you interact with the world around you and how, you know, wild Pokemon interact with you.

Like, they take off running or they may have interest in you in some way.

And so that part was kind of cool, just seeing how they are out in the wild versus how they typically interact with you in a Pokemon game.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they carried that in onto, like, some of the main entries afterwards, too, which was fun because I'm like, I love that because for me, one of the most aggravating.

Like, I remember, like, as a kid, whenever I had, like, Pokemon, well, I had Red first, and then I got Pokemon Yellow later.

But I remember playing this, and then, like, you would find Abra finally, and obviously he would just immediately teleport and how aggravating that was.

And there wasn't really anything you could do about it.

Like, it was like, it was all just based on luck.

You could throw the Pokeball and there was a chance he'd catch it.

If not, he was gonna teleport away.

But in this, he still teleports away.

But at least there's a little bit of skill.

Like, I can sneak up on him.

Like, there's something I can do about it instead of just hope that I happen to be lucky.

Yeah.

Liz, any.

Any thoughts about the game in general?

Like, what you liked, didn't like, it was fun.

So I don't really, like, have emotional.

Like, I just remember playing it.

I don't remember being overly, like, this is so great because it was just Pokemon.

So I thought it was like, you know, it was Pokemon game.

I played it.

Yeah.

This was just so long ago.

Yeah.

But I do remember, like, enjoying the graphics.

Like, I do feel like this was like the kind of the turn of the game of, like, what we See, nowadays.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

And they are making another Pokemon Legends game, which I'm excited about because I like this, like, ancient Pokemon world for me is a little more interesting than like modern Pokemon world.

Because I'm like, I don't know, I like the RPG aspect, I guess, because it's not full rpg, but it's enough that I'm like, I can make my own Pokeballs.

I could do this.

I don't have to go buy stuff.

And I, I kind of like that.

This is probably one of the last game, like I fully, fully played because which, which game console is this on?

Was this advanced, like sd?

Nintendo the Switch.

Okay, so this was the first Pokemon game for the Switch.

Then second, I can't remember.

They all blend in.

So I stopped playing the Pokemon games.

But Taylor still faithfully plays them and I watch him play it.

So it's like, you know, it kind of feels like I'm, you know, in person live streaming with a gamer.

So that's kind of how, like, that's how I feel.

That's how I've done like the past two, three Pokemon games.

I just like, sit and watch him play it.

Yeah, that's fair.

For those listening, I'm going to shout out because I do have two other hosts on our show that actually do love this game.

Christian, who is dealing with personal stuff, he had some emergencies so we couldn't record.

And then tj, who had an emergency come up at work and is missing two recordings today that he was going to really.

He's supposed to record with me at five after this.

So.

Yeah, he's probably not doing that.

Oh, okay.

Good to know.

All right, appreciate you.

Continue.

Anyway, what about diamond and Pearl?

Because for some people, diamond and Pearl are like the epitome of Pokemon games.

Like, I feel like you always get like red and blue, like red, blue, yellow, Diamond, Pearl, then black and white are the ones that people are always like.

These are like my favorite games.

Which full transparency, Pokemon Yellow and then Arceus is actually probably my top two.

What about you guys is like diamond and Pearl have a special place in your heart or anything?

Nope.

No.

No.

Because I remember I forgot this was like the first Switch game, but I preferred the old school Pokemon games.

Well, diamond and Pearl is still kind of old school.

Yes.

But like Crystal, like, I mean, what Laura just put up on the screen, like, it's just like they had my heart.

So mine, mine would be between Ruby and Crystal.

Okay.

Was Crystal.

Crystal was before diamond and Pearl.

Yeah, Crystal was pretty much the Offset of, like, gold and silver.

It was like.

It was gold.

Yeah, that's over.

And then crystal was like, on the back end of that.

But Ruby.

Ruby was my.

I think probably my fave.

I think diamond and Pearl was right after I stopped playing.

And then I had to, like, whenever I got back into Pokemon, I started re picking them back up for whatever reason.

Even though, like, I know a lot of people love it.

Diamond and Pearl never clicked for me.

Like, I played through it.

It was fun.

It was okay.

Same thing with Black and White.

For me, I actually liked Black and White two better than Black and White myself.

But I think that's because by the time I started playing them, a lot of the mechanics were really dated and I didn't have that nostalgia to, like, keep me going.

So I think Black and White 2 was when it was like, oh, these mechanics are good enough that I can just play this without relying on Feel Good's member Berries, as south park calls them.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's my husband and I like our favorite episode of South Park.

That's so good.

But for me, so Pearl, because I wear pearls all the time and always have.

So I have, like, this weird attachment to Pearl that nobody else really seems to have.

So those were my college years when I was very heavy into, like, Xbox and only Xbox.

That's all I cared about was Xbox.

So I didn't play it until much later, and then I played it when they re released.

Well, sort of re release, a revamp for the switch later on.

So I was definitely a Pearl girl, though.

Ah, okay.

Yeah.

I mean, they are loved for a reason, and I like that.

That's when the lore came in.

Like, the lore is great.

I love that part that they added to the history of Pokemon.

But we're going to get into something, something kind of different that we're going to be doing with our annual theme this year.

Each episode, we're making all the hosts choose a side.

We're choosing sides.

This polarization.

So if we don't choose sides, what are we really doing here?

So today everyone has to choose.

Are you going to be part of the Diamond Clan or Pearl Clan?

I think Reverend Laura kind of already gave herself away.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah, you're good.

See, see, this is difficult for me.

Also, my brain's blinking.

And I already said it earlier.

DiamondClan is the time one.

Right.

So I think the thing that's hard for me in this is the two clan leaders.

Adamon and Irida are the name of the clan leader.

So Adamon was the Diamond Clan leader.

Irida was the leader of the Pearl Clan.

For those who listen for any period of time of our show know that I'm like, yeah, time isn't real.

So it's hard for me to want to pick the Diamond Clan.

But Adamant is so cool for me.

Like, he's a much more, like, charismatic leader.

So I'm drawn to him just as a personality.

But I feel like people will think I'm cheating if I choose the time one.

And then I'm like, oh, hey, you have to find the good on the other side.

Because then it's like, you know, I'm the anti time guy.

I feel like everyone probably is gonna force me into saying something good about the time people.

So just so I don't end up being hypocritical, I won't choose the Time God Clan.

I'm gonna go with the Pearl Clan.

I'm gonna worship the great Sinnoh, who's clearly the God of space because, you know, time's not real anyway.

All right, Liz.

Well, I'm an April baby, so we gotta stick with diamond, because that's my birthstone.

Well, that's good, because if we all picked Pearl, that would kind of be boring.

All right, cool, cool, cool.

So we got two pearls.

I'm also an April baby, but I'm a traitor to my people.

Yeah, just stay over there.

Well, then with that.

So we have our time, we have our sides.

We talked some about how the division plays out, but a little bit more like, story wise.

I don't know how much you guys remember, but the two clans, we talked about kind of like how they're opposed.

So when you enter into this world, your character from the future, they already have a history of disliking each other.

And they're temporarily in a truce time, like a space where they're kind of like trying to learn how to get along, but they're not very good at it.

At some point, without spoilers, shenanigans happen.

You end up being kicked out of your kind of part of like a military group.

And you're forced to.

Your character actually is forced to choose the Pearl Clan or the Diamond Clan.

And then once you do, more shenanigans happen, obviously.

So no is revealed to actually be these other Pokemon who are the gods of space and time.

And then you get actually capture Arceus, which is why the name is game called Pokemon Arceus, who changes based on different plates that you've been collecting throughout the game.

And you can have lots of fun gameplay with that after you win the game.

But that's, you know, not part of why we're talking about.

But, you know, that's how it kind of plays out that you do end up figuring out that there are separate entities.

One is over time, one is over space.

But the real Pokemon God, Arceus created both.

Both of those things.

People know this is a Christian show.

They're probably waiting for us to, like, like, address, like, the Christian view of our God in.

In space, time.

We'll get to that later, though.

For now, as far as, like, all of this goes, like, are we comfortable with our positions as far as, like, if we didn't know, if we weren't, like, aware of what's actually happening with the Pokemon gods, how comfortable would you be paying your respects to time instead of space or space instead of time?

I kind of played my cards already because I don't think time's real for me.

Okay.

So I'm a little bit of a.

I was a philosophy major in undergrad.

I mean, I was religion, too, but philosophy was really my love.

So my disdain of time is real also because, like, time is a.

It's a created thing.

Right.

And we have a God in the real sense who's outside of time.

You know, like, even when we talk about, you know, Jesus's return, whatever your theology is.

Jesus return, Even Jesus.

Like, I don't know.

Like, it'll happen, but I don't know.

Right.

So time is a construct that I struggle with.

Not in my everyday life.

I'm really good at time management.

But when we're thinking about, like, gods and creation and all of that stuff, like, time is just.

It seems subjective.

Yeah.

I'm.

I'm unsure if I think God's outside of time or not.

I've heard a lot of good philosophical things back and forth on that, and I'm just not sure.

But I also think that, like, this is where, like.

So you mentioned philosophy, so we're gonna get a little bit nerdy, I guess.

I've been reading more of, like, see if I can remember the name correctly.

Levinios Levines.

Am I saying that right?

I don't know.

But, you know, he kind of, like, somewhat like the Father, like, phenomenology.

And it's like, my experience of time is real.

Right.

So, like, for me to think without that experience really isn't something possible that I can do.

And yet, at the same time, we see, like Albert Einstein and all these different scientists who've done experiments and kind of proven if you change space, what we think of as time is also changed.

Thus, time isn't a thing.

On its own, there might be something called space time.

There isn't something called time, at least scientifically speaking.

And yet I still experience something that I refer to as time.

So it kind of would be nonsensical to talk as if it's not real.

I don't know if that makes sense, but that's where I'm like, yeah, that's where I'm like, I'm on board with space because time is clearly just tied to space anyway.

Yeah, but, Liz, you chose a side.

You chose the side of.

Of time.

Do you care to defend time as God?

I'm an April baby and it's my bare stone.

And the guy was cuter as a leader, in my opinion, so he was.

A much better leader.

I don't know about cuter.

Yeah, I just remember I liked him.

I mean, I.

I have no opinions on time like you guys do.

I feel like worrying about it doesn't add an hour to my life or is.

You see what did there.

You see?

That's just funny.

But, yeah, I just have no opinion.

So I think it's.

It's precious because you want to.

You don't want to waste any moments.

You don't want to have any regrets because you can't go back.

So if you, you know, just treat it and live to the best of your ability with no regrets, that's nice.

It would be nice to go back in time.

I'm sure everyone has wished it one point on the other.

Yeah.

So, I mean, if there was any chance of going back in time, I would probably have that.

Yeah.

Well, and that's where.

So we are going to have to get to where we.

We defend the other side and look for the good.

While there are some good reasons why people would choose the side that we didn't choose, and I think that's where I would go, too.

It's pretty much the same thing that Liz just said, without the cute aspect.

I liked their leader better.

Not only did he seem more experienced, but he seemed like he was more able to kind of go with the flow, and yet he still had this idea that he's like, hey, what we are spending our time on?

Is it worth spending our time on that?

You know, like, even as I'm not sure time's real, I know that my experience of time is real.

And I'm left with that question a lot like, hey, is this hour that we spent talking about Pokemon, Was that worth my hour?

Or, like, should I have been doing something better with my hour?

Like, I think that's something worthwhile thinking about is, like, whatever we experience this time, are we using it well?

And I think they asked that and they addressed that in the game that clan does, and I think they do a really good job with that, and that's something that I could do better at, so I could learn a lot from that.

Whereas our side, they talk about space a lot, but I'm not sure that they really showed in game a lot of how.

Like, how are we reverencing the space?

How are we utilizing our space to the best ability?

You know?

Like, I feel like they just didn't show that as much in the game.

Maybe I missed it, though.

So to be the good Methodist that I am, I have to refer us to John Wesley, who talks about the trouble of trifling away our time and how we use our time wisely.

So, you know, I struggle with the concept of time because I think time can stress us out, as in, we worry too much about how we spend our time.

Some of us maybe don't worry enough about it, but some of us worry too much about it.

And I'm one of those worry too much about it people.

But I think, you know, there is something to be said about making the most of our time and being valuable contributors to the world, you know, and to how we live our lives.

You know, people talk.

It's corny.

But, you know that.

That dash thing, right?

Like, how you lived your life is the dash between the.

The numbers.

Like, what does that say about you?

You know, it's very Hallmark movie, but.

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of truth to it, I think.

Yeah.

I have other thoughts, but I'm gonna hold off because it's now Liz's turn to find the good in the other side.

So what good can you find in us pearl cleaners who revere space?

You are mindful of not taking up too much of it, so you will all stay skinny.

Amen.

That's clearly not true for me, anyway.

Yeah, you're welcome.

I don't know.

I.

Here is where, like, so we did the part of polarization, and, like, I'm bad at it because, like, you guys might know, I run a Church of Unity podcast, so I'm like, spend a lot of time trying not to be polarizing.

But I also consider myself a Christian Taoist So I'm going to bring some of that to the table, as I naturally tend to do.

I don't know.

I think there is a lot of good and the kind of stuff we're talking about, like, are you using your time well?

Are you not?

And yet there's also this point of philosophical debate of, does time even exist in the first place?

And then your experience being something different than maybe what is actual and what do you do with that?

There's a lot of the similar stuff with space, right?

Like.

Like, are we taking up too much space?

Is like, a real question.

Like, my house, because it's here and it's on a lawn, that means there's this amount of forestry that could be used for wildlife and other things that it's not being able to be used for.

I also think, like, biblically, there's such thing as, like, sacred space, you know, And I think we still need to have room for that in our theology and our mindset.

You know, I go camping at Cumberland island, and for me, last time Donald Trump was in office, his administration tried to take that away from being a national park.

And that was something that really upset me because I'm like, no, that is, for me, a sacred space.

So I signed a lot of petitions and did a lot of stuff to be like, oh, no, we're not okay with that happening.

I don't want a lot of hotels crowding up the beach here.

I want it to be something that's left alone.

And sometimes I feel like it's right to revere space also.

And yet we could take that too far and idolize this land and this world without thinking about the spiritual thing.

So I think there's a little bit of both hands on all of this.

I'm about to end my rant because I feel like Reverend Laura's just waiting to jump in with some stuff.

She just looks like she's ready.

So one thing Lao Tzu says that helps me with all this, because I.

I like philosophy a lot, too, and I study it and I think a lot.

And I can stress myself out by thinking about all this stuff and then going, what do I do with this?

Because I don't think time is real and yet clearly experience it.

So what do I do?

And I can be like, well, I feel like I need to revere space.

But then also, we can't leave everything as a national park.

And if I treat something too holy, am I idolizing it?

And I can get really in my head and stress out and freak out about all this.

And then Lao Tzu says, hey, it's really good to be empty and to just empty yourself.

And sometimes, you know, I get into all this, and I've just had to learn to, like, practice getting silent and allowing myself to kind of, like, empty all these thoughts.

And the way which, you know, God, whatever.

Love sometimes is really obvious, and you can just kind of lean into it because, you know, realistically, there's nothing I can do about whether or not time is real and me experiencing it.

What I can do is love in this moment and not worry about what this moment is.

You know, I can go to Cumberland island because for me, it is something that I get something good out of and not have to worry about, well, am I over revering it or not?

And just kind of let it be.

So I think that emptiness is a good way to address polarization in general, especially with this kind of stuff where you can really get in your head and freak out about something you literally can't do anything about.

All right, Laura.

Well, and I think we experience time and space differently at different points in our lives, right?

Like, you know, I have three kids.

When I was in labor, those were the longest hours of my life.

Right?

But then there's other, you know, times that go much, much faster.

I mean, you think about, like, when you're at.

We went to Universal Studios over Thanksgiving break, and so much time.

We go a lot to Universal.

It's our favorite space.

Favorite space, but we go a lot.

And, um.

So, you know, you go and you have this time of anticipation and waiting, and it feels like you're waiting and waiting and waiting to get to this thing that's on the horizon, and you finally get there and it's gone, like, instantaneously, you know, and that whole time flies when you're having fun thing.

And I wonder if maybe sometimes that emptiness is important to help us appreciate the fastness of time and to appreciate those slow moments of time.

I think about when I was a student at Duke.

I don't know if they still do this because I was there a long time ago, but they used to make you, when you were in your first year, go on a silent retreat.

And it was 48 hours.

You had to go somewhere with a whole group of people.

And at that time, I was a student pastor, so I lived off campus, like, far away.

I didn't have any friends yet.

And I was so excited because there was this weekend that I had off, and I was going to be with a bunch of people, but I wasn't allowed to talk.

And it was like the worst 48 hours of my life.

And then we got to the very.

The very end of it.

It was so hard because I was finally quiet enough for long enough to really appreciate the space and the moment and to let God have some room to talk.

But, man, it was hard because I just wanted to be in the same space as other people and socialize and get to know them.

And, man, like, I swear it was like 12 weeks long is how I felt.

Like I was there.

It was terrible.

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

So you brought up Universal, and now I'm of the opinion that us three clearly have to meet up whenever they change the Simpsons rights to the Pokemon.

Right, but that's another thing.

Yeah.

You know, there's a bunch of, like, founded and unfounded theories about how Universal is going to use their.

But I'm really holding on to that Pokemon thing.

I mean, I've got, you know, like, I got the tattoos and everything.

I'm counting down the days.

I'm ready for it to happen.

And I love the Simpsons Ride and the Simpsons Land and Lard Lad Donuts, but give me Pokemon, like, right now.

Yeah, yeah.

The one rumor I heard is, like, they're literally gonna have, like.

Like what they do with the.

With the wands, but, like, Pokeballs and you can catch Pokemon and then use them in the ride.

And I'm like, I really hope this is true, because that sounds so great.

Like, I need that in my life.

I second that 100%.

But, yeah, back to your other.

Your actual point.

Silence and all that stuff.

I actually remember because I'm a huge dis.

Nerd.

Like, huge.

I grew up in, like, Florida, going to Disney World all the time.

Like, this is what we did when I was a kid, because it's affordable if you live in Florida and literally nowhere else.

But we went a lot, and I remember as a kid, I loved it.

And then you get to that teenage years, and you're like, I'm too old for Disney.

And then eventually I was like, wait a minute.

I'm too old to care that people think I'm too old for Disney.

So then I was, like, going back again.

But then I found a problem in my adult years where I'm like, well, I can afford two days.

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to try and do all four parks, ride all the biggest rides, and have the most fun ever.

And I did have a lot of fun that way.

But then I was Reading something about some of the details.

And the Liberty Tavern area where the tree has exactly 13 lanterns for the 13 colonies on it.

And I went once and I said, I'm gonna spend the whole day in Magic Kingdom and I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna appreciate all the little details and really nerd out on it.

Right.

And there's something about slowing down reminded me that Disney isn't just fun and excitement, but it's also like, there's something magical to this space.

But if I didn't, you know, empty myself, slow down a little bit, I don't think I could have appreciated it for sure.

Yeah.

Universe.

So we, like I said, we go to Universal a lot.

So, like, you know, the first couple times you take in all those details, and then you get to a point where you just kind of like, blast through from one ride to the next.

But this past time we went.

It was our first time being there, like, at Christmas, even though it was Thanksgiving, but they were starting all the Christmas stuff.

And one of the things that's cool at Universal is they hide things in the Christmas decorations.

So, like, if you go to where the ghost.

The firehouse is for Ghostbusters, they have all of the decorations are marshmallows and things that relate to Ghostbusters.

And it's stuff like that all through the park.

Like things that are nods to things that used to be.

And so pausing and taking your time and appreciating what is there is, you know, you start to notice all the details that somebody is thinking about and putting time and energy to that just goes unnoticed by most people.

Yeah.

Yeah, well.

And I'm going to do a quick Jesus juke.

I apologize, everybody.

But, like, I've noticed the same thing in my church life.

You know, I grew up Pentecostal.

I still love the Pentecostals.

I hold a lot of stuff from that still that I found valuable.

And even though I consider myself a Christian Taoist now, I'm also a Lutheran.

I started going to a Lutheran.

Well, I actually am a member of Will's church and online because I have to work on Sundays, so that's just how it be.

But I attend when I can, either on Rock Hill or if I visit the Chapel Hill area, I usually go to Wills Church.

And one thing I think I've noticed is, and this isn't like a denominational difference as much as it's like, I got so used to a certain type of church, you know what I mean?

That building was just like, oh, this is where These stairwells back here is where I kissed my first girlfriend.

And over here, for me, it was more about how a certain part of my life was.

And then eventually some of the stuff I experienced, I was like, ah.

I actually kind of got to a point where I dreaded going to that building.

And, you know, nothing against anybody.

It was just certain things that were taught, certain things that were done in relationships.

You know, it's not like I'm downing the church.

It was just kind of, you know, life happens sometimes, and I just remember feeling that way about it.

And then I would go, because I have to go, because I wanted my career to be in church, so I have to be seen at church all the time.

And it was like the longest hour ever.

So my time, I felt like I was wasting time just so that I could say that I did something.

And then I had no respect for the space at all anymore.

It was just a place I was going to to say that I went, so that maybe if I do my career in church, I could do that.

And then all of a sudden, going from a real liturgical place like that to something Lutheran, where it's highly liturgical, it's like, well, we're circling around the place where we have the sacrament.

And it's not like we're just doing the Lord's Supper and here's your cracker juice, say some word, move out.

We'll do that every three months.

It's like, hey, clearly the whole service is revolved around this some way.

Like, the space is set up to revere that.

So they utilize the space in such a way where it showed, hey, this is something important, something sacred.

And then my time, because everything is so different.

Like, it's not like 20 minutes of music, 30 minutes of preaching.

Not that that's bad.

It's just like, that's what I was used to.

So all of a sudden, the time being utilized different shook me up.

And I was forced to be more aware of what was happening because it's song, Bible song, small homily, sacrament.

And I'm like, this is a whole different setup.

And all of a sudden I was more aware of what are we spending our time on, why are we doing it this way?

And then all of a sudden, church went from something like I was dreading and doing to say I did it to now.

I'm like, I can't wait till I get a Sunday off because, like, I get to go to church, and that's great, you know?

So I think this happens in our church life, too.

Where we take our space and time for granted sometimes.

And I don't want to tell everybody, go to a new church, and that'll shake you up.

But, like, I feel like there's gotta.

Yeah, there's gotta be something people could do to, like, I don't know, be more aware and respect it without having to go through what I went through to.

To be aware of it.

Right.

Well.

And I think, too, that's why it's so important to find expressions of faith that are authentic to who we are.

Right.

And so when you find a place, no matter what denomination or practice or background, it is when you find something that feels authentic to you, that you connect with suddenly that time and that space that you're spending there, I feel like it helps us to see the value and what is before us when we go into worship so that we're not getting.

I feel like it's easy to go into worship and get so lost in the details and the minutiae of what's going on that we lose what we're supposed to get out of worship and what we're supposed to put into worship at the same time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I mean.

Yeah.

Also, there's just different ways you can use your resources, because most of, like, high liturgical Lutheran churches, that kind of stuff that I have been able to go to, they don't have a huge budget.

They're just able to, like, set up in such a way, like, it's how they position the chairs.

It's how they position different things.

And, you know, budgets may vary.

One person who does a really good job, who isn't just, like, goes up and sings, but, like, that I've been seeing in the Pentecostal circle who, like, actually can command a room and do stuff with, like, the lighting and with the music in such a way that really kind of gets the spirit going, is Liz's husband, Taylor.

So I was wondering if maybe you wanted to add something about how good Taylor is at utilizing the space and time at your church.

I can talk into that, especially.

I was just talking about this the other day.

So we technically have a mega church.

And so that can look down because, yes, we have the lights.

Yes, we have full band and the loud music and whatnot.

But what Taylor does, he really does not care about that stuff.

And he only cares about the heart of, like.

Of who we're singing to.

And so even then, like, if I bring him, I'm like, I love this song.

Like, this is such a.

We should sing the song on Sunday.

He'll be like, yes, but we're talking about.

It has a lot of self centered in the song.

Like, you know, like even it's a good song.

But like I will worship, I will bow down, I will praise you.

It's all focusing on I I.

And so Taylor is very, very mindful.

Is like, no, it's not about us.

This is the time we come and we are posturing our hearts and our focus on God.

And so he does really well.

But what most impressed me and he's about to do this next week because we are going to administers Breakaway.

It's very small and he is going to be doing worship with just either him and his guitar or him and his keyboard.

And like he brings the same presence and the same energy.

It's the same energy as with him and his guitar.

With 20 people in the room, I think that's probably going to be like 200.

But like, you know, and it's all about.

As you were saying, Josh is like, you don't have to change church, but you can change the position of your heart because it doesn't really matter what's going on around you because at the end of the day, it's an audience of one.

So even if you're going into a church building or if you are going into the mundane, you can still have a different experience if you just focus on God.

Because it's always an audience of one that we're focusing on or that we should be glorifying.

So he does fantastic of that super humble.

I still like him, shockingly after all these years.

But if that answers your question, it's not about the space, it's about who you're honoring in the space.

Yeah, I mean, I do think it's important to be reverent of the space, but not in a way that that's the main thing.

I guess if it wasn't.

The only reason that the space is holy is like, Jesus is already there.

Jesus is in my.

Jesus is just as much in my office right now as he is on the Sunday morning.

So you don't want to do too much.

Like, you know, I mean, that's a like, yes, you want to have a place of reverence.

I'm not going to go wear a tube top on Sunday morning in church.

I'm going to be respectful of the place.

But I should not go to a church.

I don't believe I should Go to a church and expect to meet God more on a Sunday at that church than I can right here in my office.

I probably disagree a little bit personally.

That's fine.

I guess you're just not.

Oh, you're only close to God on Sunday.

That's fine.

I'll use a little bit of the Bible in this.

So if you go to, like, Old Testament, you could see where, like, Leviticus, different things, God's like, hey, in this place, I will be amidst you.

Not that he's not with them other places, but he's clearly more present there.

And he says, here's how we use our worship technologies.

You know, then it was incense, it was burning of animals, different smells.

So now we might use lights or music.

The veil is torn.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you don't do these things.

It just means you have a direct communication.

I didn't say I don't take away.

The reverence of the holy places, but.

With the Holy Spirit, we have full access to God anytime, anywhere.

Like, we don't have to.

I don't have to go burn an altar.

I think you kind of always had that space.

I don't think that's what the terrain of the veil is necessarily about.

But I get where you're coming from.

I think there's some sense in which maybe more than space, it's about the community.

So, like, even when you think about, you know, the Exodus, when they're traveling, there's a literal, portable, you know.

Yeah.

Temple that's being carried around from place to place.

And that temple presents the sacred space, but also it's within the confines of the community and the people.

That's why it mattered so much to God, where the temple was, you know, once they landed somewhere into a final place.

And so.

So I think, you know, in some sense, that that call to community itself and finding the sacred within the community is important.

And not to make a really weird jump, but I think that's one of the things I love about Pokemon.

Sorry.

And going back, one of the things that I love about Pokemon, Arceus in particular, is that you are interacting in the fellowship and in the community of the Pokemon themselves.

Right.

So when you're catching something, you're going to where it lives and where it exists and almost existing within the community of what it is.

So when we think of discipleship as, you know, being a Pokemon trainer and catching them all right, there's a sense in which to actually bring people to God or to that fellowship or that space of getting to Know God?

We talk about relational discipleship in the church a lot.

Where do you build relationship first and find community and actual relationship with God and with the people that you're worshiping with?

I think that has as much to do with it as the space itself, too.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, the New Testament does talk a lot about how we are the body and we are the temple.

I will always be slightly frustrated when people are like, oh, it says the body is the temple.

And I'm like, well, it's.

It's also kind of talking, like, collectively how we're the temple.

Not like you personally.

But anyway, there is.

So I want to say, like, first, I completely agree.

You can communicate with God one on one pretty much anywhere.

I think that's mostly always been a thing, but there is a lot of debate on there.

Sin is what separates us from God.

There's a lot of whatever.

But I still think there is a thing of, like, space and time that is important here and creating those things, especially when we're thinking about, like, our time with God.

And it doesn't have to be church on Sunday.

Like, for me, I do get something out of going to a space that is centered around the Eucharist and taking the time to slow down, participate in the worship with the community, you know, all that kind of stuff.

But I also find that, like, for me, and I don't do it every Sunday.

I mean, I don't do it every day, but I make it a point.

Some days, especially Sundays, if I'm at work, here's where I'm going to listen to this music and I'm going to take the time to think about God there.

And I think you can create your own space and time.

You know, I mentioned Cumberland Island.

For me, I do feel a little bit closer to God When I'm on the island and it's quiet and I'm on the beach and I'm seeing how big the world is, I do feel a bit closer to God there than I do maybe in my car in traffic in Charlotte.

Because there I'm just frustrated and upset at the world.

When I was in high school and contemplating a call to ministry and hearing God speak in lots of crazy ways, you know, the place for me that was the most sacred was the top of Pilot Mountain.

And I would get in my car and go to Pilot Mountain, and, you know, I lived in Pilot Mountain at the time, but I'd get in my car and go to Pilot Mountain and pray and talk to God because that was where I felt Closest to God.

And that was definitely a sacred space for me where I felt where I could was experiencing creation and seeing what God made, and then, you know, having these moments with God that were very personal.

Yeah.

One other thing that Liz said that I did really like, though, that Taylor does is focusing on that, like, language, you know, the not I worship, I bow down.

I whatever.

And making it more about God.

I think that's important.

And this is where, like, we did the Jesus juke, and we're like, we're going back to the Pokemon Pivot.

One thing that was really interesting in the game is you have where, like, Adamon was like, hey, we don't have time for this.

Like, he kept using time in his language.

Why?

Because that's the thing that was sacred to him.

Right.

And, like, the other one kept talking about space and, like, oh, we need to create space for the Pokemon.

We need, you know, like.

Like, it was part of their language, because that is the thing that they thought was the divine for me.

And I think most Christians, if we truly believe that statement, like, God is love, I find it really concerning if love isn't, like, a central part of, like, how we're communicating and talking, because it's like, that's what we said.

The divine is just, like, in our worship.

Like, if Taylor.

Taylor's Onathan, like, if our worship songs are talking more about me than God, then it's like, well, is that really what I'm prioritizing?

You know, our language reveals a lot.

What's the Bible say?

Like, the tongue reveals the condition of the heart?

Something like that.

I think about.

When I think about that image, I also think about the transfiguration.

Right.

And, like, they're up on the mountain.

They're like, all right, let's create a dwelling place right here for you and for Elijah and for Moses and, you know, all of these things.

And there's this immediate want to create space, to allow space for God.

I mean, think about even how people respond to Jesus in the New Testament when they see him.

There's lots of different ways that people do that.

Mary and Martha, you could argue, are time versus space people, too.

Right.

Like, Martha's very worried about this space and that Jesus feels welcome and that he has everything he needs while Mary's at the feet and listening and wanting to.

To spend that time.

So there's some interesting ways in which we interact with God that shows what we value more, maybe as a sign of our love for the Creator.

Mm.

And Jesus kind of showed his hand so are you telling us that Jesus is part of the diamond clan that we picked?

Did we pick wrong?

Yes, you did.

Jesus is a Time Lord, actually.

So we're in the wrong category.

Oh, yeah.

Whole wrong thing.

Oh, man.

Well, Liz, I don't know if.

Did you have a chance to respond any to, like, the idea of, like, the community being a really big part of this or.

Yeah, 100% community.

We need community.

It's literally studied out, even outside of Christianity, that, like, we do better as a community.

And that's one of my favorite things about the church.

But to say that God shows up more in a community, I would be hesitant because it does say with two or more gathered.

But I think about the.

The people who have to read their Bible under the sheets and can't talk about it because it's illegal.

You can't tell me that they don't have the same access or they have more limited access to God than I do just because I can go in a church on Sunday morning and, like, go and be with the community.

So I'm just saying, like, God, that's really accessible.

Like, anywhere that you seek him, you seek and he, like, he's there.

Yeah, no, I like that.

That's a good point.

I think when I think about community, it's not so much necessarily gathered community altogether, but we talk a lot about, like, the communion of the saints.

You know that it's a fellowship of believers across the board.

Right.

So when we experience communion, we're not just experiencing communion with those who are at the table, but with everyone who has also experienced communion.

So I think there's a sense in which the community itself is that.

But when we're intentional with our language, we are invitational to those who may not have access to community at the same time.

Yeah, no, I like that a lot.

Okay, well, before we wrap up, I said we were going to address this.

So one, one last question before we get to our.

Our wrap up here.

We talked about, like, our relationship to space, time, and, like, how we use space and time with our worship and, like, you know, the US Side of it.

But what about the God side of that equation?

Right?

Like, like in Pokemon World, there is a Pokemon God who created the Pokemon God of space and the Pokemon God of time.

Laura mentioned a little bit earlier that, like, maybe God's outside of time.

And I'm like, I'm not sure that's true.

But then also I'm not sure time's real.

So, like, what does it even mean to be outside of time?

Right.

Like, like if God has a material substance, if there's something physical about God, then there has to be something time about God because space and time can't really be separated.

So it's kind of like, ah.

But then to say God doesn't have substance, does that say that God's not real or does that say he has a different kind of substance?

I don't know.

I have no idea how to answer any of those things.

So we're going to throw it to the all wise, all knowing.

Liz, what's God relationship to spacetime?

Do we need to know?

Good thought.

Yeah.

I do think we spend a lot of time thinking about stuff we don't need to know.

But I also think it's fun.

Here, here's my, my two sided answer.

And then I'm gonna let Allura give us the clear answer of God's relationship to space and time.

Perfect.

She knows all things.

I'm excited to learn.

But my thought actually is probably more along the lines of like, I think it's really fun to think about all this.

And when I went to Charleston Southern and I'm very much not an SBC kind of person, I'm just not on board with the Southern Baptist, sorry, Christian, I love you, but I had a professor and I grew up Pentecostal.

So there was a lot of stuff that I just didn't think of in certain ways.

Who he talked about systematic theology and he said, yeah, a lot of this stuff is us worshiping God with our minds.

And I think if you're doing it with that mindset and you're thinking and you're asking these questions and you're trying to figure it out because for you, thinking about God as a mode of worship, great.

If you're doing all this and you're thinking about it and you're stressing out because you're like, what?

This doesn't make sense, does not compute.

And like it's causing you a lot of anxiety.

Don't think about it.

Like just stop.

Yeah, so that kind of my two sided answer on that.

You know, empty yourself.

But then also, hey, thinking about it's a mode of worship.

Worshiping is cool.

Reverend Laura, where are you at on this?

Yeah, I mean, I would, I would kind of agree with that.

First, I'd like to clarify that God does have some substance because the whole Homo usus Homo e UCS Council of Nicaea thing would have been pretty for not.

And I'm pretty sure Santa Claus would have something to say about that.

But that's a, that's a topic anyway.

But I, you know, I, I agree.

I think I like wrestling with it because that's fun to me.

And it, you know, to me, the fact that we're 2,000 years past the birth of Jesus and we're having these conversations is cool.

You know, I think it's a sign of the Spirit living amongst us and dwelling amongst us that we can wrestle with it.

But like you said, if it stresses you out, you don't have to know the answers.

If we had solid answers, we wouldn't have a million denominations and 15,000 different expressions of faith and all of the things that we do.

So, you know, I think do what feels authentic and comfortable to you to help you express your faith, but at the same time, if it doesn't help you, then don't do that.

Yeah, perfect.

Yeah.

I mean, to give my two cents on it, since I'm not sure time's real.

I have a hard time with the idea of God being outside of time or not outside of time.

I think that God is in all things.

So in a way he has substance, but I also think he's more than what all things are.

You know what I mean?

Like, the way I've heard it put before is like, God is everything that's in the universe, plus something else.

And I like that.

I like that a little bit.

Not the pantheist, but maybe the panentheist kind of idea.

But then God being more than that also.

And then like, if you get into like the doctrine of creation ex nilo.

Well, if God has substance, then how could he have created from nothing if he is made of something, you know, like, as soon as he's made of something, then no longer is everything made of nothing.

So depending on how important you think that doctrine is and what that says about God's authority, which then impacts your doctrine on sin, which then impacts your soteriology, which then impacts your, you know, like, it all does build on itself.

So if your question about, like, space, time, and God affects your doctrine of creation x nihilo, it could matter a whole lot.

Or you could just say, I don't know, it works.

Well, then there's the question of, did God create out of nothing or did God just order chaos?

So that's a whole, you know, other problem too.

But yeah, yeah, I've had many debates about that, but I don't think it's exactly knowable.

I think if I was to like, pinpoint, we'll all do this.

If we had to pinpoint a Takeaway for the episode.

I really like the takeaway of, like, hey, just like, these guys showed in their language that they prioritize space and prioritize time, that we can show what we prioritize through our language.

If we believe that love is that thing that is most ultimate, most divine, our language should show that.

If we think that space and time are important, our language should show that.

So I like that as, like, a main takeaway.

Personally.

What about you guys?

Did you have anything else that you're like, this would be my main takeaway.

And Josh is stupid.

Or remember that April birthdays are superior.

April 2, specifically, wish me happy birthday.

That is 42.

So, yeah, yeah.

Josh tried to imitate my birthday and steal it.

I had no idea that that was your birthday.

I just knew it was.

You should have.

We were close friends at one point.

I mean, I think we still kind of are now.

Yeah.

But no, like, we were like, okay.

Anyway, Reverend Laura, did you have a main takeaway that wasn't the language thing or how April birthdays are cool?

I mean, I will also agree that April birthdays are cool because my birthday is in April.

April what?

25Th.

There's a 42 in there.

Yeah, except I don't want to talk about this birthday because I'll be 40 and that's not fun.

So anyway, my takeaway would probably be that the real question that we've all been asking for generations is what came first, the chicken or the egg?

And RCS came out of an egg, so it was the egg.

And I think that's really most important lesson.

Yeah, that's accurate.

Good point.

All right, and with that, we're gonna go to our wrap up.

We will be doing a quick bonus question after the episode is done where we're gonna answer what might have a clan that's focused on Giratina have looked like.

You know, we talked about the Clan of Space, the Clan of Time, but what about the Clan of Disorder?

What would that have looked like?

So we're talking about that in a bonus thing after the episode.

If you want that Patreon Captivate or Apple podcast, that'll be over there.

So if you guys want to hear our answers.

But for now, we're gonna do recommendations.

I'll go first because my recommendation is directly tied to what we just said about 42.

I recommend everyone pick up the My Favorite Card Game, Killer Bunnies and the Quest for the Magical Carrot.

And how it's tied to 42 is for a very long time.

I couldn't figure out in Remix, the rules say whoever's birthday is closest to February 11th goes first.

And I was like, that is such a random number.

Why?

And it took me years to realize, oh, my God, that's the 42nd day of the year.

The game was just like, Whoever's closest to 42, they go first.

And I.

Yeah, fantastic game.

There's so many random, like, deep cuts and references.

It's a lot of fun.

Liz, any recommendation for everybody today?

Yeah.

So Taylor put this on to be dumb.

He likes to just go on Crunchyroll and try and find something that looks stupid.

But it's quite entertaining.

Reborn as a vending machine.

It's hilarious.

I'm interested.

It is so funny.

I love it so much.

I'm glad I asked.

You're welcome, Reverend Laura, any recommendations?

Yeah, I want everyone to go read the entirety of Demon Slayer because I read it a year ago and I'm rereading it again, and I'm obsessed with it and I just want people to talk about it with me.

So that's all.

Go read all Demon Slayer.

We have a few hosts, I think, that probably could talk to you, but not.

Not me.

I have a harder time with manga and anime.

There's a few that I really love.

But I was not able to finish season one of Dan to Dan, which means I won't be able to be on that episode with the guests who I really like.

But that's fine.

Hey, that's my episode.

You really like me.

We got it on camera.

No, no, I'll talk about the guest, not the host.

Oh, yeah, I don't like you either with that.

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