Joining forces once again, Joshua Noel and Christian Ashley are back with the brilliant Dr. Leah Robinson for a special episode of Systematic Geekology where they dive deep into the world of fandoms to discuss their top five favorite female leads. The trio brings a wealth of insight and a sprinkle of humor as they explore why strong female characters are not just essential but downright inspiring across all genres. From the iconic Princess Leia to the fierce and complex Ripley from Alien, they dissect the character arcs that not only break stereotypes but also resonate with audiences on a personal level. Expect some spirited banter, passionate arguments, and maybe a few unexpected picks that will keep you on your toes. Buckle up for a fun ride through the realms of geek culture as they celebrate the female leads that have left their mark!

Takeaways:

• The podcast dives into the importance of well-rounded female leads in media, showcasing how representation matters for both genders.
• Dr. Leah Robinson emphasizes the significance of seeing strong female characters, arguing that it empowers not just women but society as a whole.
• Joshua, Christian, and Leah explore their personal connections to beloved female leads, highlighting how these characters shaped their views and experiences in fandoms.
• The discussion reveals the character arcs of female leads like Sansa Stark and Princess Leia, illustrating their growth and resilience in the face of adversity.
• Listeners are encouraged to reflect on how female characters challenge stereotypes, allowing for a broader understanding of strength and vulnerability.
• The episode wraps up with a fun question about which female leads would make interesting crossovers, sparking creativity and imagination among fans.

.

We discuss all this and more in this one! Join in the conversation with us on Discord now!

.

Support our show on Captivate or Patreon, or by purchasing a comfy T-Shirt in our store!

.

Check out our other episodes with Joshua:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/642da9db-496a-40f5-b212-7013d1e211e0

.

Check out other episodes with Christian Ashley:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/ebf4b064-0672-47dd-b5a3-0fff5f11b54c

.

Listen to all of guest episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/0d46051e-3772-49ec-9e2c-8739c9b74cde

Mentioned in this episode:

Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Anazao Ministries Podcasts - AMP Network

Check out other shows like this on our podcast network! https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm/

Join the team over on Patreon

Sponsor our show or follow us for free on Patreon for extra content, free merch, and more interaction with the show and our hosts!

SG Patreon

Anazao Podcast Network

Our show is part of the Anazao Podcast Network and you can find other great shows like ours by checking out the whole network with this link!

Anazao Podcast Network

Sponsor the Show on Captivate

Use the link to support our show and follow us on Captivate

Captivate

Follow us on Instagram and BlueSky to keep up to date!

Follow our show on our socials to keep up to date and get some exclusive content and fun memes!

Who are our favorite female leads across all fandoms. Well, today we're going to be talking about that and a lot more. This is systematic geekology.

We are the priest to the geeks. I am Joshua Knoll here with the co host, probably the host that appears the most Christian, Ashley.

And we are also joined by the one and only wonderful return guest, Hopefully Yalls favorite guest. I say hopefully, but then I feel like I say that about every guest. But I do think she's probably for real. Yes.

Like, she's probably my favorite returning the Reverend Dr. Leah Robinson. It's so great to have you back. I think this is the first time we've had you, not specifically on to talk about Alien or Star Wars.

So, like, maybe it might creep up again.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's still going to be here, but at least we could talk about things other than just the same two things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

It's going to be fun. But before we do any of that, we do to go over what we've been geeking out on recently. I'll go first, give you guys time to think. Mine's super easy.

Getting ready to go to Orlando for Disney and Universal's Halloween Horror Nights and all that. So I'm geeking out on, like, Halloween stuff.

I'm like, rewatching Fallout, watching some of the, like, Disney villain shorts and different stuff like that. And I'm having a fun time with it. Of course, have my own music playlist for the trip because I always do that because I am a loser and I'm here.

Christian, what are you geeking out on, man?

Well, speaking of Alien, I have been enjoying Alien Earth and it's been really good so far. I'm hoping to keep it up.

Yeah, I do hear we have a. We have an episode about that and some other stuff coming up that I don't know if Will's invited Leo to yet, but he's planning to.

Well, Christian stole my answer because I was gonna. It's okay. I mean, in terms of like, like geek fandom, it's sort of the big one at the minute. And yeah, you know, it's.

But I mean, I will say my husband's watching Andor and he's like, andor is not even about Star Wars. It's about the world. It's about Star wars, but it's more political commentary. And I'm like, I think Alien Earth is absolutely on that same train.

Is like the aliens are not even like the people are the bad guys. So far Basically, my current plan with.

Alien Earth is to just keep doing what I'm doing, where I'm, like, playing games and, like, getting ready for Disney and Halloween and blah, blah. And then when I get back from my trip, my first day off, I'm just gonna binge wherever we're at in the season to catch up.

That's my thought, because I'm excited for it. I'm just too, like, distracted. I'm, like hyper fixated, you know, sometimes stuff.

But I just can't with this one. I'm too excited. I've also been trying to catch up with Doctor who, so I've. I've watched the whole of Doctor who.

So this is one I haven't talked about on your podcast. We need to. I know, but I. I am. I need to catch up because I'm back a season, so I need to catch up.

But Christian and I have publicly disagreed on the most recent season.

I could be a tiebreaker. Let's see.

Yeah. All right.

Well, with geeking out stuff on, the problem is when you have people on, like, Leah and Christian, like, I feel like I could just keep talking forever because y' all are just one to chat with. But we do have to move on. So, listeners, if you're on a laptop, please consider rating, reviewing our show on Podchasers or GoodPods.

Those two specifically, they help gain recognition for our show in search engines like Google, which is what a lot of people use to find things. If you're on your phone, consider rating, reviewing, or commenting on our show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

That'll prioritize our show in those apps, algorithms, which is where most people listen to podcasts. So it's free. It takes literally second seconds to do, and it helps our show a ton. So thank you guys so much in advance for that support.

We also like to thank our financial supporters from Apple, Podcast, Captivate and Patreon. Today we're shouting out Daniel, Sigmund, Daniel, you rock.

And guys, remember, if you want your own shout out, if you want to be like Daniel, you too can support our show for $3 a month on one of those three platforms, Apple Podcasts, Captivate or Patreon. So with that, we're going to jump into the episode proper. And I'm excited for this one. It's going to be a lot of fun. Kicking things off.

Before we get specifically into our top five female leads, I want to talk to Leah, our guest, Leah Robinson. Could you maybe talk to us about why you think. If you think it's Important to have strong and well thought out female leads in our media today.

Well, I think you know the answer before I say this.

I hope it'd be really funny if you went the other way.

I was like, you know what? I don't really think, in fact, I'm leaving, I'm out, whatever.

That'd be a perfect episode.

I think it really would. It just like, it's so funny.

I don't need to leave, Christian and I to ponder, have we made a grave mistake?

Female leads, which is totally fine, I think. I mean, I, I am got a background in practical theology, but a lot of that leads lends itself to liberation and feminist theology.

I didn't think I was going to fall into that, but growing up where I grew up, in the system that I grew up, I ended up as kind of just to get through, I had to invest in feminist theology. So I think the idea that we have these female characters is important because, you know, you have to be able to.

People always talk about, you know, representation and things like that and how it matters to see yourself in certain spaces.

And as someone who struggled a lot growing up in the Southern Baptist Church, you know, I didn't see the representation where I thought it should be and where I felt called to be.

And so it's, it's really, I think it is really important for women and also honestly, anyone to see that there are, you know, people or women occupying spaces that perhaps historically they haven't been in. And, you know, I really do think it's.

It's good for women to be empowered by that, but it's also good for everyone else to see that these spaces, you know, can be occupied by different folks.

Yeah, yeah, for sure it is. It's funny to me. And I'm gonna just go ahead and break open the thing that my co host and guest here are gonna disagree about.

And it probably makes me an awful podcaster that I'm getting this off on, off the rail so early, but who cares? Adhd, Good excuse. Okay, so for me, it was really funny.

It wasn't until I went to college that I really knew that this whole, like, debate of whether women could be pastors or not even existed. Like, it was just. I didn't know it was a thing. I grew up Pentecostal and very conservative Pentecostal by most people's standards.

You know, they're not okay with like, same sex marriage and they believe the Bible's literal, all that stuff. But I had women pastors my whole life. I knew I had a Babysitter who was a women pastor.

And I was like, yeah, you know, I grew up with, like, female leads in media. I just kind of took it for granted, and then I felt all the worst. And I'll say. I want to say best.

It always feels strange seeing best of something you disagree with, you know, But I've seen the worst and best of people who don't agree that, you know, women should be leaders in certain capacities, like pastors and stuff. You know, you have those that are like, only men should lead.

And then you have those who are like, no, technically, the pastorship I believe, is resemblance of whatever. And I still think that it's bogus, but I'm like, there's reasonable arguments and then there's oh, you just don't like women argument.

And I. I came across both later in life.

It mostly comes from the Paul verse. And you can say, oh, Leah, you're just throwing that away, the Paul verse. But we'll get into it later because I saw some Bible questions.

There's a lot of verses in the Bible that we just kind of don't really engage with if it doesn't fit what we want in society.

Those aren't literal.

Okay, let me go to Red Lobster. Let me go to Red Lobster and eat my endless shrimp. And lobster. You know, there's a.

There's a lot of stu that we sort of, you know, we sort of jump over or we say, oh, no, that's contextual. That wasn't. Paul wasn't talking about us. Like, it's like, okay, well, so anyway, it's been a battle. Yeah, yeah.

Well, since I shined a giant spotlight on the elephant in the room Christian, do you want to respond to any of this as the one person who disagrees with the other two here?

As a biblical literalist, for the most part, unless it's obviously metaphor, I do not see any representation of women being allowed into pastorate role. Just beyond Paul. I look at Jewish history before Jesus comes on the scene, and I see Jesus among the 12 as subversive as he was.

If he really wanted women to lead, why wasn't there a woman among the 12? If he really. Because he didn't care about society, he didn't care about culture, he cared about what he wanted to get done.

So I see multiple reasons for it not to be done. And I know there's disagreements against that. And I'm glad we can be here today.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would say Junia and Mary Magdalene.

I'll say, yeah, yeah. Lee And I will point to several women leaders that are in scripture, and then we'll get told why they aren't specific things.

And then we'll get into some arguments about really specific tenses of Greek words, and everyone will be like, man, this is exactly what we came for.

Yeah.

Or we could talk about our favorite, starting with. Guys, what was the first like for you?

And it's weird that I actually have a really specific memory, because I thought I wasn't going to be able to answer this. The first lead character that was a female that you were like, man, I am completely enthralled. I am inspired by this person that you remember.

You know, it's possible we had some before. We remember we're all getting older. Y' all want me to go first.

Or fandom or, like, in just life in general?

I was thinking, like, fandoms, but it could be anything. Do you want me to go first to kind of like. Yeah, I don't know. Help show what I mean by the question? Okay. For me, super easy.

I'm gonna have to, like, nuance this answer a little bit. I want to say Leia, but realistically, I was never enthralled by Leah. I thought she looked nice. Like, I was attracted to Leah.

She was my first crush, my first hero that I was, like, inspired by. This is really weird, but I think it's because I just was introduced to it so early. Laura Croft. I. For my.

Like, I was a kid when I played those games, so I never saw her as, like, you know, anything other than a really pixelated woman character who is basically Indiana Jones. But I got to be Indiana Jones. And then, like, just kind of that realization of, like, oh, yeah, a girl can be Indiana Jones.

I'm like, this is awesome. Yeah, that's it for me, really. I loved Lara Croft as a kid. Still do the new games, I think. Super on point. Great stuff.

Christian, Laura, who wants to go next?

I will go, if you don't mind. Because as my.

It was weird because I had all my, like, horror girlies and sci fi girlies written down, and it suddenly came to my mind is, whose poster did you have on. On your wall whenever you were, like, five Shira, Princess of power. That I had her, like stuff. And it was so funny because as you were talking it.

Actually, I'm glad you went first, because it started stirring that in my head because I was like, oh, no, no, you had the. I had the horse, and I had the sword, and she had the sword. And you know what?

Of course you look like something out of a Playboy magazine because men. But, you know, she also had a sword. And I loved she Ra. And I remember later learning there was a he man. And I only learned it after.

That's excellent.

I was like, oh, there's a guy, too. That's good for him. Good job.

That is so funny. All right, Christian, who's the first one that you recall?

I'm going to cheat, like I always do. Input 2. The first one I can actually remember would have been Mary Jane Watson in the animated Spider man cartoon.

And her showing up on the scene saying, face a tiger. You just hit the jackpot. I'm like 7 years old, and I'm like, peter, I think you did.

And then it's not just, hey, this is a really attractive woman, but this is someone who carries herself really well, who knows who she is. Is very proud of that. And it's also very kind, also very understanding. I really appreciated that.

But my actual answer besides that is Rolina Peacecraft from Mobile Suit Gundam Wing. Growing up, you know, boy, I saw giant robots blowing each other up. Love that.

But there was also this character in the show, and she's like, look, I'm a pacifist. And I'm like, what the heck is a pacifist? And her whole thing was, look, I don't like when people die.

I don't like when people have to go through these things. We shouldn't be like this. And I'm like, yeah, that's incredibly naive. But at the same time, it's the ideal, what we should be pushing towards.

So she's someone I've always looked back on as a character to the point where the Gundam franchise itself has kind of created clones of her in separate series, you know, since I do AU stuff because she was so popular with people, man.

Okay, that's good. I'm going to throw out there to make myself look bad early on, too.

Mary Jane, I always thought of as, like, realistically, I just thought she was a plot device until Spider Man, Web of Shadows when that game came out, and I was like, oh, I like her. And then I realized. Which I realized this about a lot of things. I had this tendency all throughout, like, up until, like, college.

Anything romantic related at all, I just skipped or turned off or went to another room until I thought it might be over. So.

So, like, Star Wars Episode 2 I thought was a great movie, but I realized later it's because I literally skipped all of those parts where Anakin was on. On that.

You're gonna tell me that you skipped Megan Fox and Transformers. I don't believe it.

I didn't even watch Transformers.

Did you?

Not until like a year ago, maybe.

Well, okay, fair enough.

And even then, I feel like I barely watched it. I was like, yeah, I don't like the director for those. I can't remember his name.

Michael Bay.

Michael Bay. I just don't like flames everywhere.

Yeah. It's just like random explosions all the time. And I'm like, I don't. I don't need this. He did Ninja Turtles and hurt my feelings.

But anyway, we'll move on. So what we're gonna do, we're gonna start one at a time with our number five pick.

We'll each go through our character, give a couple sentences about why we're picking them as our one of our top five female leads. Bonus points if you think of any biblical characters that maybe would relate to the character you pick.

And you could steal points from someone else if you think of a Bible character and they don't, that relates to their character also, as always, I gotta throw out, like, my top five in this could change in the next five minutes. Like, this is not, like, for me.

Like, there's a few that, like, have a solid place, but it's like, I'll think about it and be like, man, I can't believe I didn't think of she Ra.

You're not wrong. I had a hard time making my top five. I had a hard time putting, like, only, like, 16 honorable mentions.

And I had to stop at realizing if I was going to go more, it was going to take up the entire episode.

Yeah, I. I just. I don't know. My. My brain works in weird and mysterious ways that I'm like, man, I didn't think about my absolute favorite one.

Why didn't I say it's gonna happen inevitably? And I just gotta throw that disclaimer out because people are like, that's really your top five? And I'll be like, not now.

And I had seven. And I rearranged at. Right as we started, I was just like.

But I did realize, because I'm a teacher that there's themes, and I think it's interesting to see the themes.

Ooh, ooh. I feel like there's probably themes with mine too. I. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I tried to get us all to not know one another's picks or at least what order they're in. I know some of who Leah's picks are. I don't remember the order she gave them to me. And she changed It.

And I don't think anybody else knows whose is whose. So for. For those listening or watching, we're all going to be surprised by our picks, except for, like, Leah's number one pick for me.

I feel like it's going to be probably obvious unless she changed it on me, which would be great. We had that once before on one of these episodes.

All right, so I'll start, and then we'll go Christian, Leah, and we'll just keep going in that circle, if that works. My number five. I'm going to go with Princess Bean. Yeah, I'm going to go Princess Bean from Disenchantment. I. I love this series.

It was a fun little cartoon kind of thing. Uh, and it's a weird pick because at least the first couple seasons, she's awful.

She is absolutely wretched and terrible and even just kind of a selfish person. And you're like, why is she here? And then you learn more about her background, and it's not like you get sympathy for it.

It's more of like, oh, that's why she is the way she is.

And she addresses those problems and the character development, like, by the end, I'm like, yeah, no, I actually would be okay with her being my queen. Like, she kind of rocks. And for me, character development trumps all else. It's probably why I have, like, terrible ratings on some movies.

Everybody else is like, this is a great film. And I'm like, that person was good at the beginning and is still good at the end. That's boring. I want character growth. I want change.

And I feel like Bean embodies that. So she's just. She's just so cool. I'm going to. I'm going to kind of do a correlation with Deborah. That'll be my. My. My Bible correlation here.

Not because I think Deborah changed that much in her storyline, but, like, just that kind of, like, attitude of, I'm just gonna go kill this guy. Totally gives Princess Bean to me, where, like, you just take charge. I'm just gonna do the thing. It's great. So that's where I'm at.

Yeah, that's my number five. Up for number five. Christian, who are you going with?

Five for me, if I can get there all the way down, I'm gonna choose Elisa Maza from Gargoyle. I really loved this show growing up, and she was a huge part of it, and it was just a part of that. She was. No nonsense.

She was, you know, by the books. This is how things are supposed to be done.

But at the same time, she was also willing to be flexible with the rules if it meant protecting her friends and dealing with extra normal circumstances. I don't think gargoyles are protected by the laws of New York City, so she had to find ways to look after them.

And also at the same time, there were plenty of opportunities where she herself failed. And one of those was a great episode where she did not lock her gun safely away. And in many other kids shows, this wouldn't have been handled well.

But Greg Wiseman, what he does is he knows cartoons, he knows characters, and he had a moment where I think it's Broadway. One of the gargoyles takes it out thinking it's just a gun, it's a toy, and he accidentally shoots her.

And for the rest of the show, it deals with the consequences of that. She locks it up. She makes sure that there's proper controls for this. And as well, her relationship with Goliath is huge.

And an interspecies relationship that's immediately frowned down upon when gargoyles are found out by the world. I think she's totally awesome. I was trying to think of a Bible character to relate her to, and I'm having a hard time.

And there's parts of me that want to throw like older Bathsheba out there and how, like when she's counseling Solomon early on before he becomes king of, like, what he should do. I think there's aspects I'd throw there. I don't know if I'd throw a one to one there, but it's something I thought about.

All right, that's a good one. All right, Leah, number five. Where we at?

Number five. This one's going to be controversial. Sansa Stark from Game of Thrones. Yeah, number five. That's my number five as it gets rearranged.

She was actually my number seven on the list that I gave you. But she's. She's moved up because I would argue that she is actually. She won the Game of Thrones like that.

That would be the argument that I have in that series Now. That series has a lot of issues and especially towards the end, they rush the heck out of it. Out of what was potentially one of.

Could have been the best TV show of all time, I would argue. But they, they kind of killed it at the end. But Sansa starts off, you know, she's talking about character development, Joshua.

You know, she starts off as this young, ignorant kind of girl that doesn't know anything about the world, but just wants to be the queen, right? And then she goes and she survives. Lots of people die in that show, and she survives.

And she watches her whole family who all thought that they were making all the right choices get massacred. And by the end, you know, some people would say, well, uh, Bran Stark is. Spoiler.

Sorry for Game of Thrones people, but Bran Stark is the actual King of King's Landing. And I would argue she didn't want to be the King of Kings or the Queen of Kings landing at the end.

She wanted to be what she was, and she got it in the end, and she was a completely changed character. So her arc is incredible throughout the show. And again, there are moments where I'm like, I would not have made that choice.

But she maneuvers and she gets to it, and she gets absolutely abused throughout the whole thing. But in the end, she sits on the throne at Winterfell and she is the Queen of the North.

Yeah. Yeah.

So biblically, I would say she reminds me a lot of.

I mentioned this earlier, but Mary Magdalene, I think, is an incredible figure in the Bible that doesn't get the credit because of some pope equating her to Gregory the woman equating her to. To a. A Lady of the Night, which is not in the Bible. And so I think, you know, she is a figure who really. It's only.

I would say she goes through the same kind of arc of, you know, she was truly this important person. Clearly, she's around, she's mentioned.

And part of the reason it's going to be hard to equate biblical characters is there are more unnamed women in the Bible than named by a significant amount. And so she. She gets. She has this arc of, you know, she. She was with Jesus in the Apocrypha.

She actually comes out as someone who gets the things that Jesus are saying in a way that some of those dudes don't. And in the end, she gets lambasted. But now we're seeing in more recent theological literature, she's coming out as being a hero again. So.

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I. My controversial bit, I guess there are some characters, like, I can't remember her name. Stark lady here, Sansa.

Yeah, There are a few characters that I really do appreciate, but as a whole, like, all the way through, I was just so bored on Game of Thrones, I was like, I don't get it. This is awful. I don't know. I think it just dragged on too long for me. I was like, I just can't.

After season six, they don't resemble themselves anymore to me.

I mean, Each individual episode for me, like, I was like, dope it off every episode.

Yeah, yeah. Like, this could very easily be like Khaleesi, Amelia Clark's character, but they destroyed her entire arc in like an episode.

And I think that the thing with Sansa is she, you know, you may not like her and that's fair, but she, she's consistent and you can see her journey and the things that happen to her and how they affect her. And by the end, she is a stone cold ruler of the North. But you can see the steps that got her there.

Yeah, yeah.

It's a good character, though. Okay. All right. My number four isn't in the slides because I didn't think of this person until he started recording.

I told you, it's gotta constantly change. Elena Shaw from Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny. God, I loved her character. I love that actor as well. B.B. waller Bridge. Fantastic.

And just, just. I think the thing that really stood out to me was that fourth Indiana Jones happened. Crystal Skull.

I've come to like it more than I once did, which was a great deep hatred. So anything's more than I used to like it. But they did that and they tried to make.

What's his face, I can't think of the actor's name, but they tried to make him into like the next Indiana Jones. And I think the plan was they have the bow with him. Yeah.

And then there was like, you know, all the drama and stuff associated with him and it's whatever. And it just didn't work. And I feel like even if it didn't happen, it just wasn't going to work.

Like, no one is going to be Indiana Jones except for Harrison Ford. Like, I just. It can't happen. Like, I just don't see it. I think the way forward is going to exclusively be in video games.

They're able to capture the magic a little bit in that new Indiana Jones game.

And I feel like probably what we're going to get, but, man, this character Helena Shaw shows up and I'm like, yeah, she's definitely not Indiana Jones, but this is the first time they had another character in that franchise that I'm like, I would follow that character. If they made that character a movie, I'd be there. I'd want to see it. I want to know what happens next with her.

She had that, you know, kind of promiscuousness that Indiana Jones had. She had a little bit of that I don't care attitude. It's for fame and glory. And you still see A little bit of a change of heart.

But she still has that like, young free spirit that the old Indiana Jones did. And I'm like, man, I. I love it.

And just people who have that sense of adventure who then just go out and act on it always inspire me because I have that same sense of adventure. I just typically don't go out and act on it. So I see people who do, even on film, I'm like, yeah, that's what I wish I would do.

And yeah, so I found her inspiring and just cool. And no, I don't have any biblical characters I feel like I can think of for her. But that's my number four. All right, Christian, number four.

Yes. My number four is going to be Mikoto Misaka from a certain scientific railgun, Slash a certain magical index.

It is a Japanese light novel anime manga series. And she is one of the reasons why I love this show especially.

She's a young girl who, in this world there are people, you know, no superpowers with superpowers. And she's near the very top of the top. So she's got a real big. What's the word for goodness gracious?

Something on your shoulder, chip on her shoulder about the fact that she's one of the greatest and she, her power is the railgun.

And what you see here is one way she uses it is that she'll break coins, flip them at someone that'll go at supersonic speeds and take down her enemies. And she's very haughty, she's very prideful, but she's also very sweet to her friends.

And part of the series along the way is learning that she doesn't have to be the top, she doesn't have to be the best, she doesn't have to get all the fame and glory. She has to like do her job, which is to grow up, you know, as a kid because she's just a middle schooler.

And you know, you're not supposed to take care of the whole world at that age. You know, you're supposed to let adults do that. And then some part of this is her correcting adults and getting them to get to do their jobs.

So there's a nice mix of all that there. She's a very.

She's kind of the essence of the tsundere character, which is very off puttish and angry at times, but also very sweet when you actually get to know them. So that's a huge part of her there now. Biblical characters, man, that's a good one. I can't Think of anything off the top of my head.

I'm not even gonna bother just naming names for the sake of naming names.

Leah, do you want to. You want to try and steal it? Can you think of any character Bible.

Ways that relate, you know, I. It sounds like. Was she like a bit of a, like, misunderstood character? You said that she had to. Or did people just not get her.

Or what is it they get her? She. She's in your face. Very proud of it.

There's no disregarding maybe a JL that just.

Oh.

Spiking right through the head of that.

Things done.

She gets things done and to protect her people is what it sounds like to me.

Yeah. Okay. I dig it. I dig it. Oh, man. All right, Leah, number four. Where we at?

Number four. So there are some recency biases. Biases in these two, but I'm going to say Jody Whitaker of Doctor who fame. So basically the Doctor, essentially.

And so she is my number fourth for choice. Is she my favorite doctor? She is not my favorite doctor. David Tennant lives forever in my heart.

Hallelujah. Praise the Lord.

I know. Praise the Lord.

Speaking in tongues happening here.

And, you know, I'm obsessed with him, as is. As are most people. But I think with her, it was, you know, she really had to do something just absolutely. That the fandom was. Was pushing back on.

Just incredible. You know, she had to. She had to walk in these shoes and create something completely different and a doctor that was completely her own.

And that's one of the things I love about the Doctors, at least the ones I've seen. We can debate the new season. I'm not saying it is that they make the Doctor their own in their own way.

And so there's an episode that, if you've not watched her season, is called Rosa. And I always like the history ones better than the sci fi ones, which really annoys my husband Stuart. But it's true.

So there's one about Rosa Parks, and it's just such.

I played in class, actually, when we're talking about American history, and it's such an emotional ending of an episode and where they see her on the bus and all of this stuff. And there's just. If you watch. You can get on YouTube and watch the little clips, but if you watch her, there's an.

There is a extreme, and it's hard to put a thing on, but if there's a feminine quality that I don't think any of the other doctors could have brought to that scene, that meant that she was really the Best doctor for that scene. Even if my. My love, David Tennant, Sorry, Stuart. Had shown up on that bus, it would not have been the same scene.

And I'm not talking about sort of the stereotypes of women of like sappy or crying or, you know, oh, they're too emotional or hysterical to, you know, read the Bible or anything like that or to, you know, conquer the world in this case or help. Help save the world. I guess it's just, she's just the right person in that scene at that time. And so what she did for.

For Dr. Who, I am forever grateful. I see myself the first time that I went to. To preach at a church and the.

There was a whole back row of men and they just walked out of the church when I started. And this was a church that affirmed women as pastors and that. That moment lives in my brain pretty rent free.

And so when I see her on the screen, I think, good, this is, this is good. It's not just playing fan service or playing to, you know, diversity. It is good that she is on the screen playing this character.

So I would say it's not biblical, but I would say Little Leah. That's who she reminds me of.

I was going to say Julia. We don't know anything about Julia, but from what we can tell, it's just a female who's leading a church, getting recognized as a church leader.

And to me, I'm like, Junior, yeah, yeah, Junior, thank you. Yeah. I'm just like, we don't know anything about Junior. But to me, the thing about Jodi that was so cool is this, like she had that whimsy.

She was her own person still. But she saw she had that same whimsy that David Tennant had and it was like, oh, wait, the show can be that again.

And I got excited for a minute and then I saw what the show writers did and it was not her fault, but I was like, man, I don't. Yeah, I don't like what happened to this plot, but I love her as a doctor. Yeah.

100%. Like, I'm not saying she was the best Doctor and don't. Fandom.

Don't.

Could have been if given a better. Yeah.

The writers through that series, if you watch even the Tenant Years, like some of. And then the Matt Smith stuff gets real. Like there's some, there's some, there's some lines of, of like storylines that just completely die.

Yeah. Outside of like aspects of the Six Doctor, I can't really think of a time where this had some very bad Writing. And I love six, too. And I love her.

It's just she never got a chance to be herself because they just didn't know what they were doing. To be perfectly frank.

Yeah.

I treat not the actress's fault that writers are bad at their job.

I treat the Nexus storyline the exact same way that I treat Pirates 5. This was fanfic that someone mistakenly published as if it was not fic.

Well, that's one of the arguments with Game of Thrones is that George R.R. martin just couldn't write fast enough to keep.

So there are legitimately. Some of the show is just fanfic.

It really is. It was like, that's so funny.

I never even thought of it like that. But yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right, Christian, I don't remember if we're on four or three. I think we're on four.

Four.

Wait, you already did four. So I'm on. So it's my turn, right?

Yeah, yeah, you're on three.

Sorry, I'm on three. My three is a little bit of a cheat. I could plug. So this is annoying to me, but I could probably plug almost any Disney princess in.

I have for a long time been enthralled by the fact that Disney does this thing where, like, the men were the ones who were just plot devices. Right.

Like, we don't know anything about Prince Charming or Prince Eric is just kind of there, you know, like, and that's one thing that just Disney does really well. And I came really close to saying Alice from Alice in Wonderland or Mulan.

We've gone really fast.

Tiana. Yeah, that's true. We do know that.

Oh, she's got brown hair. I'm into her now.

Yeah. But I'm going to go with Belle from Beauty and the Beast for several reasons. She's what made me feel like reading could be cool. So there's that.

And also. So throw out disclaimer. If this story was literal, I would be on board with the, yeah, this is Stockholm syndrome and this is bad. But that's.

It's not a literal story and it was not the point of the story.

One of the things I like that Disney does with their version of the story, though, is she starts off and she loves books and she wants to go out there and, like, have an adventure. And the adventure she finds isn't, I'm going to go travel the world and do all this stuff.

Which still would have been cool, but she found adventure in books, right? She found a bigger library. She found a person she could have a relationship with. And that relationship is the adventure in many ways.

And I don't know, I. I love that as much as, like, yeah, it would be cool. She actually could go to these places. And I think the live action kind of hints at maybe they do go to some of these places, which is kind of cool.

But just like her love of books, her being the only smart person in a town full of people who literally can't even spell the word G, you know, And I'm like, I love her. She falls for the beast. She makes an adventure out of the life that she has. And it just. I don't know.

For me, it's just a good reminder that A, books are cool, and B, your family, the people you are with can be your adventure if you just live life right. Maybe. So. I love Belle. I'm go with Belle, and I'm going to do maybe a weird one. I'm going to go with Sarah from Abraham and Sarah.

Sarah.

Because she starts off with like, this isn't gonna happen. This is silly. God, I came too old. I can't do this. Whatever.

And she thinks just like Belle thought she was, like, stuck in this town and like, she wishes she could see the world. And eventually Sarah does kind of make her adventure her family with Abram or Abraham.

And, you know, all of that, it's maybe it's a little bit of a stretch, but I kind of see it and I like it. So I'm gonna give myself points anyway. No one can tell me. No, I'll just end the recording.

I was gonna say you just walk out now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Great. She's. She's my second favorite after Ariel. But, yeah, all the reasons you listed in more perfect.

And of course, you know, Kingdom Hearts, what she does to Saldon, like, to get away from him. Pretty, pretty smart.

I was trying so hard not to.

I do appreciate it this time, the social commentary that she chose a beast over a human man.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that was just. It's the bear or a man. A bear or a man. Isn't that what the meme is?

Would you choose?

And all the women were like, I choose a bear. We'll roll the dice with bear.

Yeah. Belle, literally.

She did. She did.

Oh, man. All right, Christian, what's your. What's your number three?

All right, my number three is going to be Storm of the X Men once again, grew up her in the X Men cartoon, but then actually reading the comics themselves when she's introduced by Chris Claremont and Giant Size X Men and going on through the rest of that you see her starting off as this woman who's worshipped as a goddess, but they're like, no, no, you're not this. You're actually a human who is this thing called a mutant. And as a result of that, you're going to be hated and feared across the world.

And as that has come up, she learns along the way how to become a superhero, how to care for her teammates, how to love them well, and then eventually become leader of the X Men in a way that is done. Done naturally. It's not just forced in there.

It's something that it makes sense for her character progression for her to have done this and for her to be treated with the respect that she does. I've always really loved her character. The cartoon, obviously was where I met her, but the comics really enhanced that even more.

You know, Halle Berry does an okayish job in the movies. I mean, there's few characters besides Wolverine who are given, like, character development at all in the Fox films. But you know what?

She's always been up there now, Biblical characters. I don't know.

This may be a bit of a curveball, but I'm thinking Abigail, David's wife and her wisdom and how she's able to negotiate between her idiot husband at the time and a very angry David who's about to do something he shouldn't do. And she comes to him and say, look, I know you have all the reason in the world to do this, but please don't think it'd be better.

And he listens to her council to the point where, you know, David being David, he also adds her as a wife later on when her husband does die.

But like, yeah, but to have be that person to see, like, she could have been killed on the way there, but she chose to do it anyway because it was the right thing to do. Even knowing her idiot husband, whose name is literally idiot Nabal in Hebrew.

I do love that. That little bit is great. Yeah. I didn't know that Storm became leader of. That's really cool. Also, fun fact, I didn't watch the. I just still.

I still have not watched the Fox X Men movies like I watched the Wolverine ones, but I remember the commercial where Storm says the best defense is a good offense. That piece of advice is how I beat literally every single ratchet and clank game.

I started off trying to, like, dodge and stuff, and then I was like, wait a minute, what if I just blow everything up? And it turns out that is the correct answer for those specific video games. If anyone wants to or struggling. Blow more things up.

You'll get through it. All right. Any, any, anything else? Storm?

I watched the X Men with my brother, the cartoons. I haven't seen the movies, but I watched. Having a little brother really helps you with the whole fandom thing.

Yeah, yeah, that sounds right. All right, Leah. Number three. We're still on three.

Yeah. So number three for me is going to be Laurie Strode from Halloween, Our very first final girl. I, I, I, I love horror. Everyone knows this.

That's kind of my, my fandom, as it were.

And part of the reason that I think I really came to love horror the way that I do is because horror really gave women a platform to be these leads that didn't. That. Talk about idiot people. Idiot men. I mean, I love my man, but the, the ones in the horror films don't always come across great.

Hey, I resemble that.

And it's funny because you, you, we talked about this in the Alien.

Ryan Doze and I talked about this in the Alien is if you want to survive an Alien show or film, you better hit your wagon to a lady because the men ain't making it out. And it's pretty consistent throughout the films.

And you see in horror, that same kind of trope is, I mean, and I think for me, Jamie Lee Curtis was the first of those last girl sort of characters that stuck with me at least. And then in the ones that have been more recent, she's still there. She's still kicking butt. She's still, you know, battling this.

Can you imagine how much therapy she's had to go through at this stage? She's like 660 or something in the new movies.

I don't want to imagine.

No, I know. Therapy bill is so high.

The problem is she avoided therapy.

I mean, she's got, she. And in the end, if you've seen the more recent films, you can see that it's actually has made her. She's kind of a little tinfoil hat now.

In the, the more recent film, she, she's online. Yeah. Like she's.

And you know, maybe if you were stocked your whole life by a dude that wanted to really kill you hard, that you probably would be like that, I guess. But yeah, so I love her for that. I had Nev Campbell as well, but she's fallen off the list.

But she was, she kind of copied anyway what, what Jamie Lee Curtis said. Bible characters. You know, I'm gonna say Mary in terms of. This is also a little bit of curveball. Mary, mother of Jesus Mary.

There's a You talk about literalism of the bi. There's. I need to be in your. In a Bible study about Mary because there's a. There's a lot to mother of Jesus. There's a lot we.

We are going to have to unpack there. But she survives, you know, she survives and she kind of has to watch all these events unfold.

And in the beginning, it feels a little bit like she is kind of passive in a way and is just kind of accepting what is happening and, you know, playing this role. And then by the end, you know, she's standing up there and sort of on her own two feet in a way.

So none of us on this show are Catholic. But I gotta say, when it comes to, like, the Mary stuff, sometimes I get close.

I'm like, I don't prescribe to the need to affirm certain ontological realities that a lot of literalists do. But at the same time, I do believe that Jesus was literally God and also literally man. So I still take that stance.

And what do you do with that when you're like, oh, wait a minute. He had a mom.

He had a mom. And it's like, well, and a mom that got impregnated by God.

Question mark. Yeah, that's the part that I'm like. I'm not sure how literally I take that part. I'm unsure.

But what I know for certain is that she was his mom, he was God.

I mean, she says Mary, mother, you know, and, yeah, she was with someone and not only did impregnate my God, but she was with somebody else at the time.

Yeah.

And I. I feel like there's a lot there.

I have a little bit easier of a time because I don't have to affirm, like, original sin and like, you inherited the sin of your parents thing. But, like, if you believe that and that Jesus had to be perfect because he was God and that Mary was his, you get in some weird stuff.

Like, I get where it comes from.

When I do. Like, I get it when I say. And I. I think this is the best part about theology, is, like, when.

When, you know, like, Christian, you and I could disagree on the most fundamental issue.

But the best part of theology, if you're confident in your theology and you know, and you're also okay with other people having a different theology, is that you can approach it and be like, when I say, I want to have a Bible study, what I mean is I want to hear what everyone thinks and be like, oh, I don't, you know, and that's the beauty of theology is that you can go back and forth like, I may never agree with the Southern Baptist of ordination, but you know what? It doesn't matter, because I'm ordained and their lives I'm living, you know, I'm not going to do any. But the idea that we've. This is a side chat.

The idea that we've lost the ability to chat about that is actually kind of sad to me.

Someone should do a podcast about ecumenical reconciliation or, like, church unity, and they should call it the whole church podcast, and it should be on the podcast network, and everyone should subscribe and like.

It, I think, and click and like. And bell.

Yeah.

Just for TJ's sake.

Yeah. The. No, but, like, yeah, Mary is so interesting. And I agree.

I love hearing other people's perspectives, and I love when I'm like, hey, I disagree with your premise, but everything else flows, man. Like, if your premise is right, you're on board. Like, I'm really. I love stuff like that where, like, I'm gonna ignore my own beliefs.

I'm gonna go with your premise and hear out your logic. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I get that.

I think, too, we come at it from such different. And I think as long as you're not, like, aggro about it, that's the only time I shut down.

Like, if you're not, like, yelling at me or, like, you know, practicing, like, really oppressive behaviors towards people, then I can hear you out. I mean, I don't have to agree with you, but, like, just don't scream about it.

That's why I didn't start this conversation off with, I think you're wrong and how dare you be here.

Yeah, you know, good show.

Yeah, it'll be fun. No, I.

Otherwise, I could never recover, Josh.

That is true.

Josh. I've been calling you Josh Noel, by the way, just so you know. If you ever hear me say that.

Oh, that's okay. Lots of people do.

But it's. It's like my son.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of fake lore on why we pronounce it that way, but that's. That's another that. Maybe that's a bonus sometime.

All right, all right, let's.

We'll go to number two.

Two.

Number two. I want to lie. I really do. I want to be like, man, Christian, Ari used a Marvel character. So since we used one, I'll use this other person.

I wanted to say, but that other person is just. It's not. It's not. It's Kamala Khan.

The only flaw that Kamala Khan has is it made it really hard for me to say Kamala Harris because they're spelled the same and pronounced totally different.

And then it became, like, a thing where, like, all Republicans, like, the obnoxious ones, were intentionally saying it wrong, but they were saying Kamala. And I'm like, well, that's how I've always said this, because that is the correct pronunciation of the character that I love so dearly.

And it's just infuriating. Anyway, politics aside, this character is wonderful for many reasons. It's like the best version of the little nerd that lives within me.

That's who she is, right? She. She shows up on the scene, and I don't love what she's done. What they've done with her since she became, like, an X Men person. Sorry, Will.

But especially early years, man. She shows up. She has some cool abilities. She's not, like, the strongest or anything.

Very similar to how they treated Peter Parker early on with some of that. The. One of the big differences is, like, she's the geek. She's the one who likes the. Loves the Avengers, loves Carol Danvers.

He is, like, a poster of Carol Danvers in a room, right? And the thing that made her so unique and so powerful to me is, like.

To me, as a comic geek, I felt like the comics were starting to lose their way a little bit. And I'm like, man, y' all kind of kind of lost the wagon here, right? Like, some of these heroes are like, you're doing stuff.

I'm like, this isn't really heroic anymore. And some of the storylines are getting a little wacky.

And she shows up on the scene with, like, the Young Avengers and is like, guys, this isn't what being an Avenger is about. I've loved the Avengers passionately my whole life. This is what it's about.

And she goes on this speech, but it's not like a hero speech inspiring people. It's a geek speech telling you what this thing is supposed to be, right?

It's like when you hear someone who loves Superman say, this is the ideal man. And you're like, man, I kind of wish I. What is that? And it's not because they were giving a cool, inspiring speech.

It's because they're just a nerd who is telling you stuff about Superman. And that's who she was, man. She showed up like, spider man doesn't do that. This isn't what the Avengers is about.

And she starts going off, and you're like, oh.

And it, like, it brought sanity back to the comics and it brought, like, cohesion together and it, like, inspired the rest of the heroes to start acting like heroes again. And I don't know. I love her. Clearly very passionate about this character. Like, I'm starting to tear up and I'm like, I can't do that.

This is a podcast. But, like, I don't know. I kind of think the MCU is missing out not using her more because, like, they're doing the same thing.

They kind of lost the wagon a little bit. Let's have Kamala Khan step in and be like, guys, this is not what it's about. Because it's not.

You know, you shouldn't have the thunderbolt Avengers and the other Avengers arguing. No, like, I want Kamala. Sorry. I want Kamala to show up and be like, no, this is what the Avengers is about. And that everybody to just get along.

Because, like, I don't know.

Is there something. It's not even like, these figures that they have to look like Pamela Anderson. I don't even. I don't even mean that.

Weirdly, power in the world is to look like a supermodel. That. That's all.

I mean, I feel like what made me think of it is you're talking about Peter Parker, and he's always played by, like, these, like, kind of.

Yeah.

Normal looking dudes.

Her show counterpart looks a lot more normal. And I think early comics. I feel like she looks a lot more like just a normal teenager. But it just kind of depends on the image.

But anyway, she's cool. She's passionate and nerdy like me, but uses it for good in a way that inspires people somehow.

And I'm like, man, maybe me geeking out about Doctor who or how much I love, like, the Last Jedi or something will one day make somebody be like, wait a minute, that is what it's about. And I think that would be cool. And man, Bible characters that correlate.

I'm kind of stumped because the girlies don't get as much showtime as I think they should. I think actually I could go maybe with Esther specifically, because she isn't trying to show up and, like, take over the kingdom or anything. Right.

She's just thrown into this thing and it's like, what do I do with this? And you even have like, some of her character, even though she's. She's Muslim. So they get.

They don't give, like, Bible verses out, but they quote the Quran and they're like, maybe you have these powers for a reason and she does something with that. And so, yeah, I think I can go with Esther there. But in a weird way, this is going to be like the most sacrilege thing I say.

There isn't a character in the Bible short of like Jesus that inspires me as much as Kamala. So like all of it, I'm like. Feels disingenuous to be like, yeah, that's the. That's it. So that's where I'm at. That's my number two.

Sorry I went on too long, Christian.

She's real genuine. There's a reason she's so beloved.

It's not her fault that she doesn't have great writers at this moment in time that can actually have a successful series.

The giant sized comics were great.

So for my number two. So my general idea behind this is I was going to choose someone from different forms of media.

And if you've already seen one of the images that preceded this, it's still the same franchise, but it's a different form of media. So I'm cheating, as I often do. And my choice for my second pick is Darth Freya Kreia from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic ii.

One of my favorite video game of all time. She is your mentor character in this. She is an older woman who fought with the Jedi forever ago. You never really know where she stands.

Starting off, she's always philosophizing about the nature of the Force and how people. What your morality should be. And some people find it extremely annoying.

But I appreciate a character like her because she challenges things in a game.

That starts off as a deconstruction of the mythos of Star wars, then becomes a reconstruction of why we care about these things, why it is a good thing that they're a Jedi and we're not Pro Sith or something like that.

And along the way you find out that I said she used to be a Jedi, then she fell to the dark side, became a Sith, and now is trying to guide you to destroy the Force itself as part of her wake. She's seen all the endless fighting between Jedi and Sith and she wants it done. And I just. That brokenness and bitterness is.

I can identify to a lot of that at times when I'm on my worst days.

But I also see at the very end how she does eventually, depending on your choices, become redeemed, come closer to the light again in her own crayish way. Because I don't think she could ever be pro Jedi.

Again, but she's more pro you, the player character, because she kind of views you as her surrogate like daughter, because Exile is canonically female and student. And seeing her growth along the way is huge because she starts. She's very prickly. I could have also put Mother Augur on this list from Dark Crystal.

We're very much aligned in that way. We're very prickly people. But along the way, the things soften down and I appreciate how she starts off this journey and where she ends up.

And as for biblical characters, I'm actually going to throw out Naomi from the Book of Ruth and her Mara phase, as it were. It's like, look, I've lost everything, Naomi. I can't go by the name. Call me Mara because my life is bitter.

And yes, there's also Mara Jade in Star wars and she's an honorable mention, but this just keeping a biblical part here separate from that. So I see her as someone who's broken and is looking for a reason to live again.

And you kind of help provide that depending on your choices, because you can go light or dark in the game.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to be on the same train as well.

Oh, boy.

My number two. And this was a toughy Princess Leia. Yeah, I know.

I went back and forth with one and two, but I. I mean, such a beloved character, especially in a series where women, at least in the OG3, didn't have a huge part in. In what was happening.

But the reason that I. I watch these, as you'll know if you listen to my podcast, is I watch these relatively recently as a group because I have a Star wars fanatic for a husband. And I just remember how important I found her character.

Not necessarily the same way that I did for the representation of Doctor who, but it was more just like how. Just like, good, like her decision making throughout the whole thing.

It just felt like she was constantly doing what was best for her people and also the people that she was with. And I appreciate it when Yoda says he's training Luke. And everyone hates this, but Luke is my least favorite character in Star Wars.

Me too. Well, him and Anakin. I don't like Anakin either.

It's a real problem. He's a real whiny little thing. Yeah, thank you. They're like, oh, but he's the one. And Yoda says there is another, very famously.

And the idea is they're twins. They have these. I don't think they explored it as much as they should have.

Her being kind of a Counterpoint to Luke in that way, but also sharing a lot of the same things. But she was constantly, you know, from the minute, you know, Obi Wan, you know, you're the only one that can help. It's just.

She's just constantly trying to work towards the good of everyone and be this leader. And she doesn't really get the fanfare, I think that. That Luke does until she puts on a gold bikini for aforementioned reasons.

Comparing her to somebody in the world or. Sorry, in the biblical world, I'm gonna say, you know, you mentioned Junia, who is called the apostle Junia, I should say. And I also.

I would say Deborah, who take on these roles. And, you know, Deborah being a prophet and quite an important prophet in that sense, and a judge, you know, and they don't. They get.

They oftentimes just get glossed over to focus on other aspects of it. But they're such important characters working underneath. And so I think that would be Princess Leia for me.

Yeah. Yeah. As I've matured and grown, Princess Leia has become a favorite for other reasons. You know, more mature reasons, I would say. Yeah. No, I agree.

And I also am like, I would never compare myself to Han Solo. Like, much as I want to. I'm just. That's not me. But how she fits Han Solo.

And it's like, man, nobody else could have put him in his place the way that he needed. I feel like my wife has done the exact same thing for me. Like, nobody else could have put me in my place quite the way I needed to be.

Well, when I watch it, it's just like, there's a bunch of guys being like, shiny things, shiny things. And she's like, hey, can we. Can we stay here on the straight and narrow just a little bit?

Can we maybe get off the Death Star?

Just like. So, yeah. Anyway, yeah, she's my number two.

I'm gonna backtrack and pull ADHD number right real quick. I feel like I should have said Ruth to correlate with Bell, because, like, Ruth definitely does that number of, like, my family's my adventure.

But, yeah, sorry, ADHD sidetracked. I couldn't help myself. I was like, oh, wait a minute. That would have been better. Anyway, number one picks. Here we go. I am really excited for this.

This isn't going to surprise Christian. It might surprise other people who are like, a normal and don't know who this is. Aqua from the Kingdom Hearts franchise. I'm sorry, Will.

I'm not sorry, but I'm sorry, Will. I Love Aqua. Aqua is incredible. And Aqua embodies the thing that my wife always makes fun of me for.

Like, we'll start a TV show or we'll start, like, you know, whatever. And I'm like, I hate this character. And she's like, yeah, the first person you say you hate is always your favorite by the end. Always.

Literally every time. And that's what happened.

I was like, aquas comes on the scene and she's like that stereotypical, like, you know, I don't use this wording, but, like, for people to understand. You're like, wow, her name should have been Karen.

And you're like, she comes on the scene, she's very, like, to the point, by the rules, like, kind of bland to me. And I'm like, I don't need another girl who's like, oh, we're going to play by the book and we're going to do everything right.

And I'm like, this is annoying. Why is it always a female character who's like this? I don't like these people.

It was the last person I played through the game through as, and also the absolute best ending. She is.

We don't have the luxury to be rebellious, Joshua.

Yeah, well, I didn't get that.

I'm joking, but not in a way.

I mean, yeah, I feel like that makes sense. But anyway, she comes to the end of this game and the other two. So there's like three main characters. There's not Roxas and then died to correct me.

Ventus and Terra.

Not. Not Roxas and Tara and Aqua. And you play through the game three times to get the full story. And of course I did Tara. I mean, not Terror.

I did Ventus first because I'm like, oh, he looks like Roxas, who is like the nobody of our main character. Like, it's related to the actual main character of the franchise. And I'm like, oh, of course I'm gonna do him first.

And then I did Tara because he's the guy who smashes things and I like smashing things. And, like, this was fun. And then you get to Aqua because I just have to complete it. And I'm like, I don't really want to. I don't want to do this.

And I get through it and it's like, whoa, okay. Not only is she the one who saves Roxas by hiding his heart in someone else, when he is completely deceived because he's just a dumb man. What's that?

What's the. Thank you. What's what's the guy's name that you talked about earlier that literally means ignorant Napal. Yeah, that's vintage.

He just falls for everything the whole time. Like, this guy comes up who's, like, in a Darth Vader mask going, not literally, but this is, like, what it feels like.

And he's like, I'm not a bad guy. I'm here to teach you the way of how to be a good guy. And he's like, oh, yeah, no, this guy's totally good. You're like, what? What? Huh?

Anyway, that's Ventus. Then you have Terra, who falls for things because, like, he falls into anger. And, you know, anger, of course, lead to the dark side.

And this game isn't Star wars, but.

It is number is a huge Star wars nerd.

Yeah, yeah, but which is hopeful for other things in the future. Anyway, Tara kind of falls because of that. So what you have at the end is Aqua doing this number where she hides rocks heart to protect him.

Literally pushes Tara out of the way into falling into a dimension of complete and utter darkness. Does the sacrifice play, and the game ends on that. And it's like, holy crap, this character I despise literally saves everyone.

And then you get the story, the fragment passage that I've fallen more in love with, specifically this year as I played it for its own purpose. And she's literally completely in darkness alone. And you see how everything falls because there's no memory, there's no one to relate to.

There's nothing.

And how she somehow is just strong enough that she's resisting the madness, she's resisting the darkness, she's resisting falling into everything until she meets the king, who just kind of accidentally bumps into her. And she finds a way out.

Like, she maintains strength in darkness with no connection at all to come back to her friends that she sacrificed literally everything for. And I'm like, man, I. Incredible character. She doesn't inspire me as much as, you know, Kamala, but. Or Kamala, but. Like, I don't know.

Something about what she did is just so stinking cool. And it's. Man, I could never. And I admire that. So that's my number one, Aqua. Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts. Kingdom Hearts.

Will's too drunk to hear the rest of the episode, and I. I'm sorry.

Aqua is a great pick, but for me, before we head that way, I will very quickly go over my honorable mentions. Just names and franchises. Laura Rosalind, Battlestar Galactica. Aqua Kingdom Hearts. Appropriately enough, Pyranniko's Ruby, Mary Jane Watson.

Marvel Ace Doctor who Best Companion Homura Akemi Madoka Magica Sarah Connor the Terminator Judy Honey of Cutie Honey Hermione Granger Harry Potter Motoko Kusanagi Ghost in the Shell Noriko Dakaya Gunbuster Dana Scully X Files Oscar Langley Soyu Neon Genesis Evangelion Princess Ariel Little Mermaid Rolina Peacecraft Mobile Suit Gundam Wing.

Okay, well, if we're doing that, go ahead. The one that I left out that I wanted to cheat and throw in there still somehow. So I'm still cheating because Christian cheated.

And this is my excuse writer from Scotty Young's Ain't no Grave graphic novel comic book series. So cool. Literally, it's just like, you know what? I'm dying. I used to be an outlaw. Used to be like a cowboy, just total badass.

Now that I'm dying, I'm just gonna go find death and just defeat him. And she leaves her family to go do that. And, you know, it gets into a lot of like, should we accept death? Should we fight it? And stuff.

Also Western fantasies. Just so cool. But yeah, no, I just love her ability to both be a mom and also the one that's like, I'm gonna stay alive. I'm gonna fight death.

And even if that's a wrong reaction, I still admire the. Just the Gump, you know, Like. Yeah, that's all. Any honorable mention for Leah before we do the last episode?

My honorable mentions are Neve Campbell and Scream, because Scream is my favorite horror film. And she. Again, it's great. It's great. And very close to the Halloween pick. I think Laurie Strode is the first.

And then Clarice Sterling, which no one mentioned. Silence of the Lambs. I mean, yeah, you know, she made it through. And that was the tough one also.

And I can't remember her name, but I was thinking of it when Christian was talking. But have you guys seen the Last of Us, the show Mormot? I just remember her from Game of Thrones. She was Lady Mormont. Yeah, but what's.

I don't know what her name is on the show.

Ellie.

Ellie. That's it. She's kind of an awesome character.

Oh, yeah, She's. She's great, too.

She's. She's. She's doing it. So.

Yeah, I also love Kyrie, but she's not a mean protagonist.

But my number one, surprisingly enough, in literature, so not in Star wars video games, but Star wars literature, is going to be Jaina Solo, Leia's daughter. Her.

She and her twin brother Jason are become the New protagonists of sorts of, you know, the books that are written before Disney came in and Disney did everything. And she is awesome. She starts off like Jason does. The two of them, they're strong in the force.

They're in Yavin 4, learning under Luke's direction, which is what any competent company would have done, but that's another separate issue.

And she, along the way, learns what it means to be a Jedi, what it means to be someone who's protecting people, but at the same time learning, hey, this Force thing, I don't have it. Excuse me? I have it. Other people don't. What does that mean?

And then you have the Yuuzhan Vong come on the scene, and they have no connection to the Force whatsoever. So what does she do? Does she whine about it? Does she philosophize about it all day long?

No, she becomes an active participant in trying to protect people. As an actual pilot, you know, she's very much her daddy's girl in many respects, and in some ways even surpasses Han.

And along the way, she also learns that she is a very haughty character, too. She thinks too highly of herself and learns some humility along the way.

Say, you're good at this stuff, but at the same time, you got to have a better, you know, look at a self reflection, honest, of who you actually are, of what you need to do, what your flaws are.

And she flirts with the dark side for a little bit, but then comes back to the light and becomes a leader in the new Jedi Order to the point where if things had continued, I think one of the things I was thinking for a biblical character I would include, if they had actually kept going, would actually be Lois, which would be Timothy's grandmother, which I think some people might find odd. But, like, I think if Dana had been allowed to continue to grow as a character, that's exactly who she would have been.

Someone guiding the next generation towards truth, towards serving the people as what a Jedi should do.

I like that.

Also, just so everyone knows, I came this close to adding Rey to my list to infuriate Christian, but I was going to throw in there that I specifically meant Rey from Duel of the Fates. That never got made, but she was way cooler in that.

I was going to mention Ahsoka as well.

Oh, Ahsoka. Yeah. Ahsoka does deserve a. A shout out, at least. Yeah.

And I like Dre, but that's this thing from a different.

Yeah, yeah, we'll get there.

We'll get there. My last pick, which will Surprise. No one is, of course, Ripley from Alien is Ripley. Yeah, from Aliens. And I think a lot of.

I've said a lot of this on the podcast that I did at beer camp with. With Ryan. And you can go back and I'll.

Link that in the description, too.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think when you look at horror and you look at just complete and utter. Just survival and like, just a boss, I think Ripley is that.

I mean, she truly just takes over the whole. She is the narrative of that and that movie and then just kind of in the second one, too, to some degree.

But I do think the first movie, the Alien movie, where Ripley is there, you're just so confident that that.

And I think that's something with my female characters is resilience, but it's also confidence that they are playing the same role, that if you had a male character there, that you would feel even better, honestly, with the female character in the sense. And so when I'm looking at the ship and she's there, I'm like, I'm going with her.

And she's not the strongest one, and she is, you know, all the tropes that you get, you know, she's a woman, so, you know, crying, hysterical, et cetera, et cetera. Can't. Can't read the Bible and all that. So when she's there, you're just like, oh, no, I'm going to go with her. I think I'm going to be over here.

Like, so for me, that is like, when you have a female lead who you don't even realize is like, the. The gender stuff doesn't even come into it. They're just awesome. They're doing awesome things. That's where I feel like you really get it. The.

The kind of hero quality. And then I would say biblical. You know, someone that we. My namesake has her own history in the Old Testament, which is. Is interesting in itself.

But I'm going to say Eve, because I feel like we can do a discussion and not have Eve in there.

And part of that is just the way I taught a class about the history of female characters and the way she and Mary Magdalene throughout theological history have just been absolutely destroyed in popular culture and art. And, you know, just seeing the progression of them becoming more and more objects. And not just objects, seductive objects.

Like, they're no longer characters anymore. They're like the Pamela Anders. I've made the quip. But it's true. They become non. You know, it's not just their women.

It's that they become These like, you know, pornographic style of, of a woman. And I think with alien, Ripley gets to be just herself. Like, she is not Lara Croft.

Like she doesn't look, look like that, you know, and she still is the hero of that tale. And to me, to be able to maintain yourself throughout history if you're a woman is tough.

I feel like modern Lara Croft doesn't look like Lara Croft. I feel like we've learned that maybe, maybe that's not the best way to show every single female character.

I kind of like that we're moving past it. Like, they don't have to have like double D boobs and a size negative waist for them to kick ass.

I don't think I, I'm just waiting for us to have more superhero males that have a little bit of like a slight beer gut and is balding. That's what I want. Yeah, yeah.

I want some like middle aged ladies that are out there just like, oh yeah, why not? Perimenopause is not the best. But you know what? Like, come on.

There's a great new Marvel movie came out really recently. Thunderbolts. You'll love it. Compared to a certain other film, it's.

An awful, awful bad film. But that's okay, I guess. I think it might, it's right there that Iron Man 3. For me, like, those two are just the worst MCU movies.

For me, MCU is a complete gap in my geek knowledge. Like I.

Well, I apologize.

Oh, it's okay. No, I know I can't do them all. I can't.

I can't do everything.

Yeah, Star wars.

You don't have to get into everything.

Yeah, that's why we have so many hosts. Because we can't in. Not one of us can get into all of it. But if we get like 12 of us, we probably could cover most of it.

For sure. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know, go see Endgame with some friends of mine. Because I didn't, I was like, I didn't even see the start game. I don't know what we're so sad about here. Except for some hunky dudes dying.

That's all I got.

I think the sad one was a better movie like Infinity War, but it's so good. But anyway, we're running up on time, but I did want to reflect on some of our answers here because we had some good, some really good.

Just kind of curious from you guys.

What main characteristics do you find from these characters that you're like, these are the characteristics that are most admirable or, I don't know, maybe this is why it's important that we have these characters that are kind of challenging the stereotypes of how females have been portrayed in past media. You guys can think of anything broadly to reflect on that? I have a few thoughts.

But, yeah, I mean, I think just the trust element is a big thing. Like, to trust them, you know, in a lot of stuff that I used to watch.

I'm an 80s kid, and the women were sort of background characters or didn't really do much. And this idea that it's that you trust them to do what they say they're going to do.

And for me, that is a real characteristic of these people that we've mentioned is if they say, like, if Leia says, I'm going to get you off this ship, you know, I trust that she. She will do it to her best ability.

And I think for me, you know, we relied a lot on superheroes or these characters to be, you know, you know, Henry Cavalli style, like giant humans and would, like, bash out that.

And that's sort of Ripley's thing too, is you see these giant men with these giant guns just get eviscerated by this alien, and somehow she's able to survive because. And I would trust her. So you. You trust their intellect and their bravery. And in many ways, their problem solving skills are a lot more. They're less.

And they're less emotional. So you almost flip the trope in a way with some of these characters. And it doesn't mean, like, much like Doctor who and Jodie Whitaker.

It doesn't mean that the feelings aren't there, that you're not being, you know, what you might describe a stereotypical feminine. It's still there. It's just that it's being expressed in a different way.

Yeah.

For me, just thinking back on my pigs, I don't think the ones that inspire me the most, I think it's important they're female for, like, kind of a weird reason, kind of to get a little bit meta. I think it gets around some of the annoying stereotypes of men that would prevent men from being able to have the same qualities that I admire.

So, like Princess Bean, part of why you dislike her so much in the beginning is because, like, a woman drinking and belching and acting that way, you can't be that, like, she has that stereotype and in the end goes all the way to being like the king. And it's like, wait, women can't be king. They gotta be queen. You know, whatever. And she's like, this strong leader and what.

And all this stuff, and she doesn't. I don't know.

To me, I think it helps that she was female, because if it was a man, you'd be like, well, okay, so he went from one toxic male personality to another toxic male. You know, I just don't think it would have been inspiring. You know, Kamala, just, like men being nerdy is looked down upon.

You know, you're not supposed to care about things. You're not supposed to be as passionate about these things. You're supposed to be stoic and all this.

And, like, so it would be kind of cool to have a man nerd do that.

But I think it's important that it wasn't, because the story didn't need to be about that, and it just needed to be about the fact that, hey, if we realize what these things are about, we can get back on track. And I think it's important that Kamala was a girl for that reason. And I say in her name different every time now.

And I apologize, even Aqua, like, if she didn't come off as, like, a Karen in the beginning that I was like, I don't think I like this person. I don't think it would have impacted me as much that she is the one that literally saves everything.

Nothing in Kingdom hearts that is good happens without Aqua. And, like, I don't know. So for all of them, I think it's. It needed to be a female lead or just wouldn't have impacted me. So it's that sacrifice.

It's that passion, and just the character arcs of it. It's just what really draws me to these and inspires me and I think makes me better. Maybe even a better Christian, maybe.

Well, and I think, too, what you're saying is it's. It's also breaking down these stereotypes.

I mean, you said the word Karen, and then you said, you know, she's drinking and she's doing all this stuff. And it's like all of these stereotypes in the men's stereotype, too. You know, I think what it's saying is that gender roles are socially constructed.

And you can hear what I'm saying. Gender roles are socially constructed. All right? And that this.

A guy can nerd out and cry and be upset, and then you can get, you know, a woman who is like, get on the. Get on my ship. We're getting out of here. Right? But just know that that isn't because you're male and female. Like, it's the Fact that you.

It's giving permission for people to be multifaceted. And I think that that is important. Like, it's, it's offering that space.

You know, I'm, I'm the one in my household that does a lot of stuff that could be characterized as, quote, male gender roles. And you know, Stuart is the feeler and the nerdy guy who's taking me on this journey and it's like, that's okay. Like, let's have space for that.

You know, really ironically, whenever we were doing the pre marriage counseling with the, the pastor, they had like a book we had to go through, like which everything your parents did around the house. And it was just so funny. I just didn't realize how many things my dad did that most people think that's what moms do.

My dad, like, he worked from home a lot. He did most of the home chores. And I just didn't think that was weird. You know, of course men do the laundry and cook. What do you mean?

Like when they pass like paternity leave at my, at Stuart's job. And I was like, absolutely. Like, what if I was an executive and not a teacher?

Yeah.

You know, but also he should have the right to have that. Like, that's.

And I think that's what some of this does is it gives, it's good for, it's good for society to see this, I think, because it allows you to operate in different ways. Spheres.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Christian, any. Any reflections?

Yeah, I think the common thread I saw is I think I just tend to like competent people who at the same time can also be.

If only someone would tell the American electorate that.

Yeah, that'd be nice. On all sides of the equation there.

Yeah.

Just competent people at the same time can also be vulnerable and honest about their failures and how they're working on themselves. I think all five of those, even Kreia is probably the one that. The least involved with that.

But along the way, she does admit sometimes when she's wrong. But I mean, honestly, when it comes to characters, gender and race, have never factored into why I like someone.

I just care about someone writing competent characters.

And I think why I dislike a lot of modern Hollywood storytelling with some women, I'm saying all women that they write is that they try and overcompensate for how women haven't been portrayed well by just making them practically flawless in every way. And that making them is just an ace with no reason for it or giving them no reason for why they can do what they can do versus showing.

Say, hey, I'm good at this, but I suck at this, or you're good at that. So let me help you out here. So when it comes to all this, like, look, I just love these characters for who they are. And yeah, they're women.

Yet I like the men too, that I have in my top, whatever for them. I haven't made that list because it's the most recent one I've made.

Yeah, well, and that's like, I love Zorro. Zorro's cool. He'll never be one of my tops because, like, he's basically just a flawless hero who beats the bad guys, you know?

And like, that's not fun. It's fun when your. Your characters have some flaws, you know, and it's more fun if they're flaws you don't expect them to have.

You know, like, it's like, oh, that's fun. But yeah, anyway, with that, we. We do need to wrap this one up first. Of course. We're gonna let you guys know. There will be a bonus question.

I might dip out and let Christian and Leah do it. If we could have a story with any two of the characters that we mentioned today meeting each other, who would we have meet? That's going to be it.

So stick around after the show. It's going to be a ton of fun. I might stick around long enough to just see who I would want. Okay. Anyway, my recommendation.

If we're going to be doing recommendations, you know what? Cheating ain't no grave. Scotty Young read about Ryder and death and really think about, like, what is the meaning of death? Should I accept it?

Should I try to fight against it? And should I rage against the cold, dark night? It's great, great literature and sometimes comics can really hit you in the feels.

And Skottie Young is great at that. Christian, what about you? Any recommendation?

We'd like to see another competent woman. I mentioned her in my honorable mentions, but Ghost in a Shell, standalone, complex, both seasons of that. Madoko Kusanagi, Pretty dang awesome woman.

Yeah. Also the manga for Kingdom Hearts 3. You can get all of Aqua's story without having to play the whole game.

Oh, also, don't watch the Scarlett Johansson film. You'll be better off.

All right. Leah, recommendation?

Yeah. So I'm in a band book group with Christy Whaley, who is my co host on Theology on the Rocks. We would love for you to and anyone to join, but we had.

We recently read Octavia Butler's Parable of the Sower and that was which got banned by the way. Hold for it. For racism and climate change.

What?

They got banned. So cool, cool, cool. We're cool. So I would definitely recommend again keeping it on the woman's side of things. It's a great book.

But also All Boys Aren't Blue is the one that we read this month and so I would recommend those. So I'm on the book train right now.

I know that will would love to to talk more about a parable of sorta Olivia Butler. He's. He's talked about her some on the show before.

But anyway guys, if you're listening, we're watching and you're on a laptop, consider reading, reviewing our show on Podchaser or Good Pots or YouTube. I guess it's going to help our show gain recognition and make it easier to find in search engines like Google, which is where people look for things.

If you're on your phone, consider rating, reviewing or commenting on our show on Apple Podcast or Spotify. That's going to help prioritize our show and those apps, algorithms. It literally takes seconds.

Helps the show a lot and we really, really appreciate it. We also appreciate our financial supporters on Apple Podcast, Captivate and Patreon. Today we're shouting out Daniel Sigman.

Daniel, you're truly amazing.

Like amazing Daniel.

Not as good as like Kamala or Kamala Khan, but like you're still pretty cool, dude. Hey guys, remember, if you want your own shout out, you too could be like Daniel and support our show for $3 a month or more on one of those things.

Three platforms, Apple Podcast, Captivate or Patreon. And of course, we need you all to do one very important thing for us and remember that we are all chosen people. The geekdom of creeps.