Christian Ashley dives deep into the character of Ned Stark in this episode, exploring who inspired him to be the honorable man who famously lost his head for the sake of integrity. Joined by the ever-engaging Rev Keno Canady, they unravel the complexities of Ned's morality and how his unwavering principles shaped the world around him in "Game of Thrones". The conversation touches on everything from Ned's relationships with his family to his struggles in the cutthroat arena of King's Landing, all while maintaining a light-hearted banter that keeps the mood relaxed. Listeners are invited to reflect on what it truly means to uphold honor in a world rife with deception and betrayal. With insights sprinkled throughout the chat, they ponder what lessons can be learned from Ned's journey—both the commendable and the cautionary.

The podcast kicks off with Christian Ashley and Keno Kennedy diving deep into the world of Game of Thrones, specifically focusing on the character of Ned Stark. Keno, with a laid-back vibe, jokes about Christian's haircut and they reminisce about their geeky viewing habits, from the latest anime series to the intricacies of the Star Wars universe. They set the stage for a thoughtful discussion about honor, sacrifice, and the moral dilemmas faced by Ned Stark, particularly referencing his infamous decision to execute a deserter from the Night's Watch. They explore questions about who influenced Ned's strong sense of honor and how that ultimately led to his tragic fate. They assert that while Ned's commitment to his principles is admirable, it also blinds him to the ruthlessness of the world around him, a theme that resonates throughout the series. As they banter back and forth, Keno's insights into Ned's relationships with other key characters, like Catelyn and Jon Snow, add depth to their analysis, making it clear that Ned's legacy extends far beyond his execution scene.

Takeaways:

• Christian and Keno delve deep into Ned Stark's character and what shaped him to be a man of honor, even to the point of losing his head.
• The discussion highlights the moral complexities of Ned Stark's decisions in a brutal world where honor often leads to dire consequences.
• Listeners are reminded that while Ned Stark embodies integrity, his lack of political savvy ultimately contributes to his tragic fate.
• Ned's influence extends beyond his death, as the impact of his choices reverberates through the series, affecting key characters and plot lines.
• The episode emphasizes the importance of mentorship, especially how Ned's experiences reflect on the choices of those he influenced throughout the series.
• In the end, the podcast invites listeners to reflect on their own values and the balance between honor and pragmatism in challenging situations.

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Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Who inspired Ned Stark to be the man who was willing to lose his head for honor's sake, we're gonna be asking this question and a lot more in today's episode of Cismac Ecology. We are the priests of the Geeks. I'm your host, Christian Ashley, joined today by a special guest, former host, great guy, overall, Keno Kennedy.

How's it going, Keno?

I am good, sir. Christian, it's good to see you. I think you had a little more hair last time I saw you.

Oh, yes. I have cut it all off since then. The curse of my father came to. Just as I always knew it would. And now I look even more like him.

But.

But.

But it does look good on you, though. It does look good on you.

I'll take it.

Yeah, it does look good on you, sir, but no, it's good to see you.

Yeah, it's good to see you too, Keena, man. Yeah. Looking forward to hanging out today. Talking about some Game of Thrones again. It's been a while since we've done that.

Before we head that way, we have to ask the question what we've been geeking out on. So I want to hear what you've been geeking out on. Kino.

So I have. I have just finished Hell's paradise, the second season. Okay. And just started the Night of the Seven Kings, nine of said kingdom.

Yes.

With. With Duncan Natal. And that is an interesting watch because, you know, it's not.

It's not as gritty as Game of Thrones or House of the Dragons, so it's like a little. Nice little. It is a. It is. Is a family friendly. Thus far. I don't. I. I'm only on episode three.

Game of Thrones family friendly. Yeah.

Very much for Game of Thrones. Very family friendly. Yeah. So that's. Those are things I've been geeking out on. How about you, sir?

Yeah, yeah, I just finished that not too long ago.

I really enjoyed it overall, way more than I like House of the Dragon, but I actually just watched the first four episodes of the new Darth Maul show. I think they call it Shadow Lord. It is way better than I thought it would be, man.

Loving it so far, I have to say. I have to say. So. So I was on vacation last week, and the cabin we were staying at, they had Disney plus as well. And I was like.

I was.

I was going. I was gonna watch it, but I think, no, I'm not gonna do that, because they didn't have a sound bar. You know how these flat screen.

Oh, yeah.

TVs. All the sound is behind the TV. And I was like, ah, I'm gonna wait till I get home watching my big screen TV in the dark.

Listen to it, right?

Oh, yeah. So. So you saying that reminded me I need to be watching that.

Okay.

Oh, yeah.

I love his story. I love his story. Yeah.

All right. So with that in mind, let's go ahead. Go ahead and get into our regular conversation today.

That, of course, being around the faces behind Ned Stark, continuing on in this series, this time around, of course, we're in Game of Thrones.

Tsukino, if there's someone out there, for some reason decided that they picked up this episode and they have never once watched Game of Thrones in their life, could you describe it for them?

Yes. It is a. It's a show about families, power, position schemes. There's a lot of. There's a lot of. There's a lot of gore.

So if you can handle the gore, then this. If you cannot, then my recommendation, don't watch it or just get past those parts because it's still a good story line in of itself.

But I have to be honest, I tried to read the books. I tried, but they were too big, too thick, too big for me. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna just do the audiobook.

So I will assure you, when I get off here, I will do. I will do the audiobooks. But if you've never seen it, it is. Again, it's a show about power, about family and the characters.

You will fall in love with somebody on this show. I don't care who it is, but you have. You will find your character that you love. And. And this is a show that. That will. It's.

I'm gonna say like this for those. For those who used to watch young wrestlers, which I used to watch the stories. This is. This is the stories with blood. Okay.

This is the stories with blood. That's. That's really your daytime Stories with blood. That's the best way I could describe it. It's.

It's a little fantasy starting off, you know, soap opera. You ain't wrong. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Game of Thrones, A Song of Ice and Fire. Books. Books are written by George R.R. Martin, a very cantankerous man.

We've talked about him in the past. He is very talented, but he's also very opinionated and also very lazy. That's all I'm going to say for right now.

I agree with you.

But, but what they are, they're the stories of these the Seven Kingdoms within this realm of Westeros. It's an alternate version of Earth, as it were. Like they don't go in like alternate dimensions or anything like that.

But like for the purposes of a fantasy story, this is where we're that these kingdoms used to be ruled but it's people grown as the Targaryens who had these dragons. The dragons have all died off.

They were defeated in a rebellion led by our guy Ned Stark as well as Robert Baratheon, his friend based on things that happened there and now they take place. Was it 20 years after I, I can't look at someone's yelling at me right now. Sometime after the rebellion enough. Yeah, it's about 20 something. Yeah.

For him to have kids that old and like ask him to become his Hand, like his main guy, his, you know, chief Aer, as it were.

And then all the machinations that happened because he's used to things being one way up north, they're way different down south and all the things that happened as a result of that and sorry by the way, we were going to be talking heavy spoilers today. Our guy kind of loses his head quite literally along the way.

Yes he does. Yes he does.

You know, once again, Sean Bean does not make it so, you know, like, can you discuss like your history with the show?

I watched it live and in person every week and this is before, you know, binging and before the streaming services.

So I had, I had hbo and when this came on, this was the thing that you did and then having to wait because every, every, every season, the last two episodes will put you at cliffhangers. The last two, not the last one. The last two episodes would always have your cliffhanger.

And so you had to wait either a year or two years before they came back. And, and, and I'll never forget. This is another spoiler.

I never forget when, when, when Jon Snow was stabbed and got killed and we had to and we was like, you know, he, and, and, and then just to see him take that breath and he had to wait a whole year to figure out what the hell just happened. Oh yeah. No, no. So, so my, my, my introduction was the shows live and in person. But I can say that because I, I did re.

Watch them maybe about I, I binged them things maybe about A month and a half. Like, I was eating them up. Like, about a month and a half ago, I was rewatching. I was like, this is still a great show.

Even though I knew what was gonna happen. Cause I rewatched some of the stuff leading up to the last few seasons. It still was exciting.

Now, I have to admit, though, and I think, Christian, you agree with me, the last season was like, I'm a fan. I'm gonna watch it. That's the. I'm a fan. I'm gonna watch it.

But, like, I poured my time and energy into this. I'm gonna finish. Mama Didn't Raise no quitter.

Yeah. So. So that. That's my introduction. How about you? How about you, sir?

Yeah, I got into it around the second season. I had some friends in college who had mentioned it to me, and they were both watching it.

And at that time, I had no money, you know, being a college student. So as I've mentioned several times on the show, I may have used alternate memes in order to watch the show. And I had to.

I got back home several years later where my sister had watched it independently of me and gotten my dad and brother into it. So we would start watching Sunday the new episodes together.

And it was around time of season four or five is when I actually read through the books on my own. They're long. There's a lot of information in them. There's a lot of proper nouns. And if that's not for you, that's not for you.

Ain't nothing wrong with that. What's more digestible is a TV show.

Yes.

Even with all those same names, it's a lot easier to see these things happen versus, you know, 700, 000 plus page book. I get it. Yeah. Some people are comic book readers, some people are movie watchers. Some people, you know, give me that dos.

Dostoyevsky I can read, or any other Russian novelist for that matter, however long it is, and just keep going.

I remember I tried to do Hitler's Meenkof mein Cough and just run on sentences. I'm like, this man never takes a break. He doesn't know what a comma is or a period it is. I'm like, I just. This is just too much. Yeah, yeah.

No, I mean, that's one of the.

Things you just gotta do. It's like reading that in a Communist manifesto or. Yeah, something like that. It's just like, this is what people thought. How do they think?

How can I help understand them? Yeah, people who think like them, but. Yeah. All at the same time. Not a great author, surprisingly. A very great speaker. Not a great author.

A terrible person. That Hitler guy.

Yes, he was. God, he was. He was very terrible.

Yeah. Yeah. So that is the show itself.

As mentioned previously, this is an episode based around the faces behind Ned Stark, who we believe very early on to be our singular main character. I mean, we have different perspectives over in the show, in the books, but, like, Ned is our guy. He's the most moral person.

He's the most compassionate person. He's not without his flaws, but at the same time, he's a person we are rooting for to be like, let's.

All this madness within court politics, like, we're learning at the same time as him. Like, this kind of sucks. It's like, maybe he'll get out of this and then unfortunately doesn't make it so, like, you know, like, who is Ned Stark?

Why does he matter for the story?

So. So rewatching the show, you have an appreciation and you get.

You get to pick up on nuances and things that happens that you didn't pay attention because you're just so excited about all the other things that are happening, you know, with the. With the lure of dragons and. And what else is happening. It's just. It's just the whispers and the secrets and. And the backstabbing that happens.

But, But. But Ned is first and foremost, he's a father. He is a dad that loves his kids, and he's an upstanding guy. He is. He is the pinnamite. He is.

He is the true embodiment of north, of the King of the North. Like, literally.

Yes.

Everybody in the north loved Ned Stark. Rather, they loved the Starks. They love all of the Starks, but they love Ned more than anything else. And you saw how he held his honor when.

I think it was the first episode where you had one of the guys from the Night Watch running because he saw the white walkers and they caught him in his land and. And so he broke his oath. And Ned was like, listen, if. If I. I understand you scared, but I. I stand by my words. And so we're gonna.

We're gonna make sure that you stand by your word too. And I can't remember. What's the name of his sword?

I'm sure that's the name of his sword.

No, I can't remember. It's like snow something. I don't know. I don't know. It's not snow something, but. But so.

So every house, every major house has a sword and Most of them, not all of them were Valerian steel, but we'll get into that later. But, but, but, but he cuts this man's head off and even, even though he did the honorable thing because, but he still messed with him. But he didn't.

He. I have to say this. He was naive to the game. He was naive to the game and, and he did not understand how toxic and backstabbing Westeros was.

And funny enough, every Stark that went south end up dying. Every star. Now, Jon Snow is not a start, so we can't include him.

That's answer.

No, no, I'm talking about. I'm talking to me. I'm talking to me. I'm talking to me.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yes, okay, Fair enough.

Not, not the ladies, you know, because women. Women were, were, were protected in some capacity, but not so in Ari. In that regard. Yeah. Not in that regard.

But, but, but he is, he is the epitome of a father and a dad that you will want because he stood for his children. Well, until he got to Westeros. Because then he was like, I don't even know what I'm doing here. And then I feel bad for him.

This is just a side of this relevant. I felt bad for him because he still kept wearing that hot leather in the heat.

I'm like, sir, I know you got to be dying wearing that leather jacket and that leather suit in, in Westeros, it ain't cold.

King's Landing.

Thank you. King's Landing. Thank you. I kept saying restaurants, but King's Land. Thank you. Yeah, but, but, but that's, that's who he is in my eyes.

How about you, sir?

No, I appreciate you bringing up the scene with the deserter from the Night's Watch. The idea being, it's like, how can we show you who this man is?

He empathizes with the guy who ran away, but at that same time, he is held back by being a man of the law, being a man of honor. So he cannot let him escape. He has to be the one to take care of it personally. He doesn't give it to some subordinate.

He says, all right, guys, children, gather up while you're here. This is what an honorable man does. Kills a guy on the spot because he broke the law. It's like, okay, now I know who this man is in one scene.

Brilliant work by Martin. Brilliant work by the filmmakers for the TV show. Yeah. And then so when what happens, happens later on happens.

He's the same guy from the very beginning. He's changed a little bit. But you know, he's going to make the wrong play. Thinking, doing the righteous thing.

And that is a man I can respect immensely. Even though, yeah, you can argue, well, he should have played the game more or well. Well, someone needed to be him in that system.

Yes.

And it cost him everything. But at that same time, he was himself to the end. To the.

To the very end.

Ned Stark is that man.

Yes.

Even though you could argue a little bit, oh, he was giving things up to become a man of the watch.

And maybe some plays were made there, but like, no, he was still doing that based on let me preserve my family, let me love them, but also follow the law.

Follow the law and the honor and the reputation that the Starks maintain in the North.

The Stark Nate has power and if I abuse it, that no one's going to trust us.

No one's going to trust us. And so he. He holds fast to that tradition, to the name, to the honor, to the code, to the reputation, to. To the very. To the very end, which.

Which is admirable. I hate it that he died because I wanted to see, you know, what would happen if. If. Because if he would have lived. I don't know if this it.

I'm sorry, I ain't pitching any of your questions. I'll be honest.

But if.

If he would have lived, man, that would have been a different story, a different show altogether.

Jon has the greatest supporter he could have up there in the North.

He probably learns who he is a lot sooner now that Ned is disgraced in the eyes of the other nobles but is earning honor back by being part of the Night's Watch. I could see that slipping. Maybe in a night they get drunk together and it happens. Who knows?

He'll probably sacrifice himself trying to stop the White walkers at some point, leaving Jon to be the guy to take up the reins. But, yeah, I think that's how it would have gone if he had survived. Because.

And as well, that the reason he died is a huge casus bellae for why the north becomes one of the major players in the War of the Five Kings.

Yes.

If he hadn't have been killed, they might have stayed out of the affairs and been the best looking out of everyone involved.

They would have. They would. You're right. They would have kept their nose out of it. They were like this. This has nothing to do with us. Because winter is coming.

Yes, because winter is coming. And that. That was that. That saying meant something before you even knew it meant something because. Because the reality is you're like okay,.

This is how he said it.

Literally how it was set up and everything. But. But because you know, it start. It starts off in the summer and everything. But. So we thinking that the winter's coming. Oh, the winter's coming.

But no, no, no. The winter was coming and was coming for everybody. Like you. You thought that she was good because you was in Provost on the other side and didn't.

They didn't know. It touched everybody. Everybody was an impacted by winter coming.

Well, I'm so glad you asked. The alternate question of what happened is to survive because we have to ask the question in this series. What happens if he's not there at all?

He doesn't exist. How does the series progress?

It wouldn't.

It would not have progressed as the way it would have because you would have Robert being rambunctious and no one to steer him somewhat in the right direction. Somewhat, somewhat. Somewhat. But then you still probably end up with Joffrey being on the throne still.

Because I played, I played around with this that if, if he did not.

What if Robert didn't after John Aaron had passed, chose his father in law to be his hand and just left and just left Ned to be the Warden of the north like he was. And, and, but, but, but knowing how Tyrion. No time. I'm sorry. Tywin Lannister, knowing how he is.

They would never believe about the White Walker stuff. They never would have believed that they would thought it was tales and that's just something that north told the children to.

To make them scared and go to bed at night. So I don't know. You. You got me. You got me. I mean this ain't some of the stuff we talked about because we talked about Ned. Ned.

But Ned is, is a pivotal character. Even after he dies in the first is his shadow still covers the rest of the show. His shadow is still felt throughout the rest of the show.

The rest of the. The series. And I'm talking is it seven, seven seasons or eight? How many seasons? It's eight seasons.

Ned Stark's shadow still impacted even at the very end.

Yes.

Which is. Which is fascinating to have for a character who was killed off in the first season.

I don't know how it was in the books, but in the first season to still have an impact. Eight, seven seasons later, that his impact was still felt. Which is fascinating.

That is the impact of a true character, a true man who embodied again, honor, tradition. And he held secrets. He was. Oh man, he was a great. He kept the secrets there for everybody because he knew the secrets of Cersei.

He knew the secrets of his own. It wasn't his bastard, but it was his nephew. He knew that. He knew the secret, but he held those. And, and because that's like the one.

Time he broke his code to keep that secret.

Remind me. I'm sorry.

He broke the code to keep that secret. Oh, yes. John wouldn't die.

Yes, he did. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. He broke that code, but he would.

Rather people think that he was the one who fathered him and all the accusations thrown about him, all the problems that caused his marriage for the sake.

Of keeping John alive and because if they would have known, they would have known if John was. Was who John was. Oh, yeah, that. That. Would. That have caused a lot of problems because then you would have.

He would have a right to claim the throne because he was a Targaryen. He's Targaryen. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was a lot of color problems. Yeah.

So in regards to.

If Ned doesn't exist, so the Stark house, you still have his older brother Brandon, you have his sister Lyanna, and you have his younger brother Benjamin. Benjin is the one who joins the Night Watch. So if Ned doesn't exist. I don't know. Benjamin is younger than him, so.

Would he have ever palled around with Robert Baratheon? No, probably not.

No.

Robert, like you said, would not have the support of Ned.

So think about it. Because Robert's rebellion was based off of the Mad King. Like, he was literally just trying to kill everybody. And so.

But because Ned was a fighter and he supported his friend. That's why he got into the fight in the first place. But what if Ned. You cannot say that. He.

You can't think of how the show would be without him because he's such an integral part. He is Robert's best friend. He is. He. He is. He is the Warden of the North. He is the. He is the keeper of oaths. He's the keeper of secrets.

And he also is his. His wife is the. The.

She doesn't get married to him. He's not there.

No, because John Aaron was. John Aaron was not his.

He married.

Yeah, it was his brother in law. It was his brother.

Yes.

It was his brother in law. Yeah. John Aaron was his brother in law. Brother in law.

But.

But it's, It's. It's funny to ask, like, what could you. I. You cannot think it's go anywhere. No, I mean, the story could go anywhere, but.

But to say that he's not a part of it. It wouldn't be the same.

It wouldn't be the show. Yeah, yeah.

No.

And that's. That's one reason why we asked this question is like, how much does our main character impact the world that they're in? Oh, yeah, Immensely.

He is. He is integral. He. Even again, even though he dies, he's. He is.

He's of such an integral part that you see, even with the flashbacks, when they do, you know, going back to. To when. When his sister. No, gosh, Liana. Liana was. Was secretly married to the Targaryen boy. I can't make it remember his name.

Rhaegar.

One of them.

One of them fancy foreign names.

And. And. And Ned honoring his sister's wish of saying, this is who he is and keep him safe.

And he did, like you said, even to the point of his marriage, even to the point of his reputation, like his reputation was on. But even though he. Even though Jon Snow was, quote unquote, a bastard, Ned Stark reputation only went down a peg if that. If that.

Because of who he was.

It's more like people saying, oh, even he's susceptible to the.

Right.

The ways of the world.

Right.

Everyone has their vices. It's not like, oh, earth shattering.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. So, no. So no. Yeah, you couldn't. You couldn't. You couldn't do anything different.

So when it comes in particular to this series as a whole, would you rather be Ned's mentors of many of which are there. We'll talk about a couple in a bit. Or would you rather be the one who is being influenced, Ned, in this sense?

I would want to be an influence because all mentors die. I want to live. I would want to live. All of his mentors end up. His best friend was killed. His. Who else? John Aaron was killed.

Who else end up dying as his mentor? I can't think of anybody else, but I knew. I knew very.

His brother dies.

His brother does die. His brother does die.

All of his father with him, if I remember correctly, because they were both going down to like, get. Bring. Bring Liana back, if I remember that sequence. And that's when the trial by combat by fire happens with the Mad King.

And I think I want to say they're both there and they both die. If I get that wrong, I get that wrong.

So, no, just off the sheer fact I want to live. I want to be an influencer just off of.

Cause once you die, like, you either get poisoned, get your head chopped off, you get eaten by a boar, you still get poisoned. You get burned by fire or you get killed by the White Walkers and then become part of the army of the dead.

Or you get stabbed by your friends if you're on the Night watch. So, no, I would want to be an influencer. I don't want to die. I think that's all the ways to. Somebody died.

I think that's totally fair.

I think it was. Did I miss something? No, I think that there was. It was stabbed, head chopped off, burnt by fire, poison, the boar poison again.

All truly terrible things to endure under White walkers.

Yes. Yeah, no, I think. But I think the worst is the White Walkers, like literally just watching the Night King when they went beyond the wall to. To.

To bring the. The wildlings back through the. Through the Wall and watch him just raise all of those dead fighters as you're leaving. I like this. This is.

I don't know. This is. This is. Oh, yeah, no, I couldn't. Yeah, I get me burned me. I understand why. I understand why they said burn me now in the North.

I understand why they said no. Bird heat.

You know, don't let me become one of them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This.

I mean, we've been asking this question in every single episode, and this is pretty much asking like, hey, would you rather be a Del Rock at a hard place? Would you? Would you? It's like when someone says, yeah, I totally live in a dragon ball world or something like that. Oh, really?

You want to get genocided by Boo and have to be brought back by the dragon balls and die multiple times over.

Multiple times, you know?

No, there is no winning answer here. I mean, maybe you could say I could be Ned and I could change history, but I don't know about that one.

I mean, honestly, out of the choices presented, I guess I would be Jon Aaron in this situation. I mean, I have arguably 100% success rate. I'd argue probably about 75, given who Robert actually becomes as a person.

But like, with my mentees here, I have the new king and I have the most moral man who ever existed in this world. I helped shape them into being. You know what? Even though I'm poisoned by my wife, who was way too young for me in this scenario.

Sorry, that's how I have to be in this. If I become John Aaron. Politics and the like. But, yeah, I'm choosing his life. He didn't die pretty old.

No, no, he did. He did die pretty old. He did.

And he was able to become the quote unquote, Prime Minister of the realm because that's what the hand of King was literally was like, that's so interesting. But again, I don't want to die. I would rather be like Varys. I don't want to be Littlefinger because Littlefinger is not liked or trusted by.

Even though Varus isn't either. But Varus is cunning enough to know how to maneuver without showing his hand. But. But okay, yeah.

They were actually going to be part of my honorable mentions after we go through our main list of, like, mentors of a sort to Ned being like, hey, you got to learn the game in various ways.

I wouldn't consider them mentors. I would consider them influences.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's a better way of putting it.

Yeah, yeah. Because. Because a mentor was somebody who had really. They didn't care about. Well, various did. Various did care to a certain degree.

Little Finger was more like, I'm telling you the truth, knowing you'll never accept the truth and that I just live off of your tears after this point in time because I'm a terrible person.

Yes. Oh, my gosh. Little thing was hard.

All right, so let's say we get into those mentors, influencers, friends, family to like, starting of course, with the big one, John Aarons.

Right.

What do you have to say about him other than what we've said so far?

I think John was someone who also taught Ned honor, but he didn't teach him discernment. Let's just be real.

Like, he did not teach him to serve because if, if he, if he would have said to him, hey, listen, this is, this is how you do certain things. But when you're here, because in the north, everything that, that Ned did in King's Landing would have worked in the North.

It would have worked fine in the North. But having that mentality going south to King's Landing did not work.

Like you had to be able to hold secrets, have secrets to blackmail, to get people to know their vices and all that. You have to get a one up on everybody. And so I think John Airy was, again, was a good man. He raised them right.

He helped both Ned and Robert to be honorable, but did not teach them discernment. And the fallacy is that you can raise a child to be good, but if you can't help them to spot evil, it's a lack of preparing them for the world.

And so he didn't help him to see the evil of the world because, again, I mean, in the north, you really don't have nothing to really worry about. But some wildlings Coming back every now and again to steal some sheep or maybe a oath breaker from the Night Watch. That was it.

Even, even the, the, the, the stories of the White Walkers was beyond the Wall. So you, like, we got this wall, this, this, this what, 700 meter high wall that ran from one end to the coast to the other end of the coast.

We ain't got nothing to worry about. So they, they can try to come through. They want to. Giant giants. She just care about no giants.

Yeah, but, but that, that was, I think, again, he was great, even though I didn't, I didn't know him in the series.

But even knowing some of the things that he did throughout the series, Jon Arryn, you can see how that honor was passed down from both him and Robert. But Robert was too. Robert was a warrior, not a ruler. That's, that's the reality. Robert was a warrior, not a ruler.

Yeah, Aaron's a really good example of a posthumous character.

You know, he's never on screen from, I don't think even in flashbacks from what I can recall from the books, but you can feel his influence without him physically ever showing up in both Ned and Robert in different ways. And these are his success stories.

Well, gosh, there's got to be something about this guy that he was able to mold these young men into who they became. I, clearly he had enough of effect on him that maybe he tried to teach Ned, hey, here's how you need to play the game.

And Ned was like, nope, that's not how I'm going to do things. I think that may actually be in the text. It's once again been a while since I've read them.

But yeah, Ned, he had some aspects of what we would expect from, like King's Landing in the North.

He'd had to deal with the Boltons and the Iron Islands rebellions and stuff like that, and making sure stuff like that was done correctly, making sure the Night Squats was being ran correctly, but it still like, pales in comparison to King's Landing. So while he had some talent, it wasn't good enough because he refused to adapt to the situation.

And you have to adapt to your, you don't have to, you don't have to compromise your morals.

Yes, there's a difference.

Yeah, you have to adapt.

And one of the things he could have done was to talk to his, his friend Robert saying, first of all, let's, let's, let's slow down on these, on these women and is drinking because I'm starting to count around King's land. There's a lot of you that's running around, running around here. Let's, let's, let's slow it down. Better yet, let's, let's, let's do a tour.

I think that's probably the better thing to do.

Let's, let's take a tour of the kingdom and let's have you ride around so you don't have to be wandering around and you can go hunting stags and boy whatever it is. But I mean you could. But he just like Robert like killing though. He, that's. Everybody admitted he was like, he didn't like ruling.

He didn't like ruling. He hated it. He thought it was boring. So he was like whatever. But, but, but yeah, I'm sorry I went off on a tangent. I realized.

No, that's fine about, about because, because this is a great show though. This, this.

Oh yeah.

There's a lot of angles to this show and even though we doing Ned Stark, you can see how many layers it is even with him.

Next up we got his brother, his older brother Brandon. What do you got to say about him?

I don't remember. Wait, wait, wait. Brandon was the one who went down.

South to confront Aerys, the Mad King, I think that was his name.

So I'm going to be honest, I don't remember him through the series because he was talked about.

He's another posthumous character, right?

He was talked about but he really was, it was allude to and I don't so I'm a yield because I don't remember this.

Had the same upbringing as Ned, was a little more fiery ironically enough in demeanor compared to Ned who was more even tempered, able to like think things through but like nope, his sister got taken, goes down, demands her to come back otherwise bad things are going to happen and demands a trial by combat as according to the law. And that's when of course Mad King uses that his knight is going to be fire and Brandon doesn't make it.

And that being one of the things that spirals into one of the reasons why Ned joins the rebellion. Of course the kidnapping of his sister being one but the cruel way in which his brother died and once again maybe his father was there too.

Kind of like sealing the deal as it were. Being like nope, game over. Like we're gonna have to start this rebellion right now and take this Mad King down.

Yes. Yes. Which, which again speaks to the, the Starks honor and family. Like, like yes.

Even though his brother was probably a little hot headed and probably just, just thought that he knew better than everyone else. Ned was like, this is. This is still my brother. This is still my family. I don't care how wrong he is or how messed up he is. We still gonna.

We still gonna protect and fight for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's part of that hot headedness that maybe if he had actually spent time not throwing out accusations, but spending time to learn the situation, he may have actually learned that, as we do find out, not in the books, because once again, Martin, but in the show that Lyanna actually came down willingly to become the princess and later would be queen of Rhaegar Targaryen. And there was no seizing by force. It was all mutual and consensual. So I think that's one thing.

That if Ned had been the one to do it, things might have gone a little differently considering his more even keeled kind of demeanor. But unfortunately for everyone involved, it was.

Brandon which started it all.

Yeah. Then we have Catelyn Tully Stark, his wife. What do you think about good old Catelyn being an influence to Ned?

So she was his backbone. She really held everything together and she swallowed her own pride and raised John as one of her own. Even though she resented.

She resented it because it was a slap in her face to saying that her husband did not keep his vows when he was wherever he was, according to the. To the lore. But we know, you know, that's not the case.

But she still, she still held it together and she was such a pillar that she then had influences on how the story unfolded even after her husband died.

Because remember, remember when Brand saw the twins copulating, trying to use my good, good government, good words and then he got pushed out the window that Littlefinger tells her that it was. It was the imp. It was terroring Terry. And so when she saw him, he's like, oh, no, I'm finna. And I see we out.

We out in these streets, but we in the north. Oh, no, we're gonna arrest him. Take them to my sisters, because you're gonna get pushed out. The little. The little. You gonna. No. What do you say?

You're gonna fly.

You're gonna fly in the moon.

The moon. The moon.

What you call it?

The moon something. It was the moon something.

Yeah.

Anyway, anyway, so, so she, she had influences on how even the story unfolded because even before when they went to war and. And his son was taken over, she still had some influences on him because she re. Released. What was that not with the twin Lannister. The he. He.

Jamie.

Jamie Jamie Lan. Yeah, she. That. That set. That set another type of. Ripple in.

In the time span of everything because if she did not release him, they could have had negotiating all this other stuff and so it.

It.

Yeah. So. So Catelyn was. Was. She was. She was not as big as Ned, but she still had an influence though.

She still had an influence and they still respected her because of her husband. And she was very. She was very respectable woman as it is because of what she did now. She cared for her children, period. Even. Even the.

The bastard Jon Snow.

Yeah. Catelyn, as opposed to Ned is more hot headed than impetuous.

Not like she'll just fly off the handle, but like it is easier for her to do what Ned would wouldn't do in a situation. That's one thing they b. Other really well.

And of course, I mean the whole thing with Jon Snow, like the resentment she must feel and yet remain with her husband, that is huge. As far as she's aware, he actually did it. And there is living physical proof right there.

And Ned was never going to tell anyone except for John eventually was his plan.

Now that would have been interesting if, If John was born with that. With that blonde hair, then. That is not. It's not blonde. It's the. It's the white.

The platinum. Platinum?

Yeah, platinum. That would. That would have been like. Wait, did you steal this baby? Did you steal this baby? Because he don't look like us.

Nobody in the north had that type of hair. He's the Targaryen. They would recognize that from the get go.

Westerosi genetics isn't based on any science that's recognized by, by any punit square. Whatever you call it. Punnett square. We look at it. Yeah. It's weird because by the show's logic, he should have that hair.

He should have that hair because that's what his. That who his father was.

Yes.

Yeah. Well, no, no, no, no. Because it's only when they intermingle amongst themselves that they had that hair.

Is that it? Did they say that in the House of the Dragon?

Well, every, every, every time. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I take that back. I take that back. I take that back because dang it. Who's the king? Is a. Varys is the king. Viserius.

When he married Allison. Allison, yeah. His kids had that hair, that, that bright color hair.

So no, like I said, genetics are magic, man. Don't you know?

Yes.

There's no science involved here.

No, no, no.

Yeah, but I think the way that Catelyn Works best is when she and Ned are, like, not fighting each other, but are, like, opposing each other with words and, like, bouncing off ideas with each other so that he can understand things better, she can understand his point of view better, and they make the marriage work. I think that it. That is quite possibly one of the greatest miracles in Game of Thrones is that they. They stick together, even. Yeah.

Putting all aside the political stuff, if they ever divorced or anything like that, but, like, that she doesn't cheat on anyone else. Like, they actually maintain a healthy relationship. They have children after this fact.

Like, something was repaired there because they actually worked on it together.

They did. They did. And I'm pretty sure he wanted to tell her at some point that, you know, this is. This is my nephew, but he had to keep it.

Keep that appearance, because if anybody knew that he was a Targaryen, he would have died instantly. I don't care where he was. They would have killed him.

Game, set, match.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. But that's. That's why I think she is. And I agree with you, too. Yeah. So we got it. Who else. Who else we're gonna talk about?

All right, so for, like, main Mainwood here I have Lyanna Stark, and that, of course, being his sister, who is supposedly stolen by the Targaryens to become what he believes to be a sex slave, but in actuality is in a consensual relationship that just didn't broadcast it because they were AF what people would think about them. So, like, he. She is the major reason. Yeah.

Of course, with the death of his brother and once again, potentially his dad, I could have looked it up this whole time, but I kept forgetting to do that. Like. But she's one of the main reasons why he does what he does.

Yeah.

He doesn't want to die. Yeah. He doesn't want Robert to die or John to die, John Arryn to die. His sister. If he can get his sister back, it would have made this all worth it.

Yes. But let me ask this question, because this is the part I was confused about. Was she patrol to Robert Baratheon?

He definitely wanted to happen.

Right, Right.

She. She had talked to Ned, and he. He mentioned, like, hey, this was a bad match because it wouldn't. Yeah.

He wanted her, but Ned knew Robert and knew he would never be faithful to her.

Oh, okay. Okay. So she was.

That was a major reason why she chose Rhaegar, because she felt like he would.

Okay, okay. Which he did. But she did. Which he did. But. But her. Her.

Her her shadow, the ghost of her is seen, even though we don't know it at time through Jon Snow. Like, like, so, so like, even though she's not there, she's always present because of Jon Snow. But, but she is. She's the one.

Like, like the whole thing of Promise me Dead like that.

That right there set everything in motion to where we ended up, how we ended up even in the whole Game of Thrones series in of itself like that, that there. And we don't see that until like late season seven or season. I forgot season six, seven, eight, somewhere in the end.

But, but that, that then makes everything sense because now you know, okay, so, so Jon Snow is not a bastard. He's a Targaryen. And because of that, you know that.

That's why a lot of this was fighting, which we didn't know then, but we know, you know, after the fact. But her, her death impacted three families. If I'm, if I'm looking at this right, the Targaryens, the Baratheons and the Starks.

No, and the Lannisters because the Lannisters was involved in this too, that regard. And so that, that, that is to, to, to have someone that type of influence that caused the war to break out was fascinating. Like, she was the.

I mean, I mean, I mean it was other mitigating factors.

Like, like the king, the Mad King was one trying to blow up everybody with, with wildfire and, and I was like, yo, that wildfire just, just, just a quick, just human me. That wildfire that, that thing that burns on water, yo, that was like.

And then when she blew up, when she blew up the, the scepter and everybody else in there went, oh gosh, yo, like, I gotta give it. I gotta give it to Cersei. Like, like that was, that was a power move. But, but she was very naive and how she thought about stuff.

But, but the fact that she blew it, like she got rid of everybody, like, you know what? Forget it. I'm gonna just make sure all y' all die so I can just do my own thing.

But she didn't know what that would do to her because Tom and then jumps out the window and commits suicide because. Yeah. Which was sad. Tommen was. Tommen would have been a great king. I'm just sad to say that he would have been a great king.

Yeah, all the makings of it he.

Did, but he was a little naive.

But yeah, he was also young.

He was very young. He was very young, but he would have been. He would have been Great. But especially in comparison to Joffrey. Lord have mercy.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. Anyway.

Yeah. What such a terrible fate to be married to Marjorie Tyrell. You know? I would never want to be in that scenario.

Well, she wasn't. She wasn't that bad, though.

That was a joke.

Oh.

Oh.

Because I was like, yeah, no. Yeah. So. Yo. So, so. But have your mama to be Cersei, though.

Sure. Sign me up.

It was okay.

I can have messed up parents if I end up there.

Messed up. Yes. The whole family was all messed up. The whole family messed up. Even Tyrian.

Even though, you know, even though Tyrion was the only one that was sane and the best at his job, out of everybody, like, for he was the. In my opinion, Tyrion was the best Hand, and out of everybody. I mean, he. He could.

He could have ran the kingdom, but he didn't need to because being the Hand was good enough and he should have stayed the Hand, but his. His father just, Just like. You know what? Just. I, I. You better be thankful I let you live. Okay? Because he was Atlanta. I was like, dang, that's.

That's cold. To tell you, your son, that I let you live because you had my name. I'm sorry.

Anyway, so I think we can go and skip ahead. We mentioned some honorable mentions earlier. Unless there's someone that's on your mind that you want to throw out there.

The other one is Samuel Tolly.

For Ned.

Not well. For not well. Samuel. Well, think about it like this. If Sam met Ned, think about what that conversation would have been like.

Okay. I see the possibility you bring up there. Like, how would he interact with Sam.

Right.

And support his friendship with. Oh, yeah. If we live in an alternate reality where he does end up with the Night's Watch. Yeah, that would be a lot of.

This is a lot of fun story potential there.

Yes, yes. And so I'm like, don't, don't, don't. Don't discredit Samuel. So Sam. Samuel could. Because, first of all, even though Sam.

They made him seem like he was a. He was aloof and not worthy to be a Tully. Sam had his one. He was very brilliant. It was very brilliant. And. And I would want him to be the, The Chief.

Was it Chief Maester. Whatever. I don't know. But you know, the one that gets to go to King's Layman. No, not High Maester. Just. That's the high set Head Meester. Whatever.

Whatever.

Whatever. Whatever. But he would be that He. He would been great. And to then have him to talk to Ned and saying, hey, you know what?

The guy that you cut his head off when he was talking about the white walkers, you know, I seen them. You know, I. I don't have a reason to lie.

You know, I think we should be preparing for this versus fighting these people down south because they don't care. We need to be figuring out how to get these people from. From the wild, the wildlings down south, because they don't become a part of the, The, The.

The army of the dead. So, yeah, that's. That's my honorable mention. Outside of everybody else, we talked about.

Okay, so, like, moving ahead a bit, just like, what parts of Ned's journey should we emulate or, like, excise, remove completely from our own lives, like, aspects of his character?

I think, I think one of the. One of the biggest things would be to.

One of the things he needed, we need to learn from him is to be able to read the room, like, understand the characters and the motivation behind people. Believe. Believe people when they show you who they truly are. Because the word. The word was born in the North.

Like, if you said you was gonna do something, we honored you by your word. But in King's Landing, it was the actions that mattered more than anything else.

So he had to be able to read the room and understanding that how people position themselves in the sea. And then people coming to you.

Like, if somebody came to you and offer you something, offer you some unsolicited advice, you just had, you should have held it. Just, just, just should have held it. But also the, the other thing, and this, this is, this is my pastoral side coming in is when you do.

When you do not do the work of healing. I'm sorry, when you do not do the work of unhealed grief, it can have a ripple effect throughout your own family.

And so the grief of not only his brother, but his sister, like, losing those parts of himself and even his father losing those parts of himself and then having to be the responsible one for everyone makes. Every decision you. You make is in relation to something that you didn't work on. It impacts the future, which we don't think about.

Yes, but if, if he would. If he would have deal. Dealt with his own grief and dealt with his own sorrow, his own pain, he would.

I would assume that he would not have gotten into the war with Robert or maybe have told Robert, hey, let's. Let's take a step back first. Because even though the Mad King is. Is mad, he's still our king.

And I think the only Reason that they fought the Mad King because there was no dragons. There was dragons. You know, they've been different story. That would have been different story, but because there were no dragons.

And, and plus, he was. He was. We knew the man King was losing it, too. Yes, but, but, but. And the last thing I would throw out is, and this is one.

One of the great takeaways is having real mentors and telling you what you needed to hear is. Is a jewel that we don't recognize in this, in the society. Like.

Like there's a lot of people who are trying to do things on their own when there's other people who have walked that same path, that if you just lend yourself to them, even if. Even if you have to ask someone, hey, can you help me? Or I'm struggling in this or what could you provide for me? Because what. What else.

The other thing that Nick could have done was to ask Tywin, you've been a hand before. Is there anything I need to know going into this, going into this job that would have.

That would have shaped how all this would have played out as well? Because Ty would have told him, listen, if.

If you have a king that does not want to rule, then you have to rule in his state, but rule justly and make sure that you're making sure that the people. Because it was always the people. You had to make sure the people was happy. Not, not the Red Keep, but the people. That would have been the main thing.

So those are my three. Those are my three that you could take away from his life.

Ned having the humility to go up to Tywin Lannister and ask for his advice might have changed their entire dynamic. I don't think he would have seen that as like a pawn, but he gained a respect for him, that he cared enough about his opinion to ask that question.

That's a big one. Now, I'll say from my side of things, I think Ned's greatest strength is also his greatest weakness.

His fatal flaw, as it were, is that he is honest and a slave to the law. Also, at that same time, being a proponent of the law or a speaker of the law, someone who can actually get things done.

And that's what's always used against him, is this idea. It's like, look, I believe in the laws written down in scripture about what we're supposed to do, what we're not supposed to do.

But I know there are greater laws in place that being love God, love your neighbor as yourself. So a law against someone stealing. Well, if there I see someone stealing something. I also noticed it looked like they haven't ate in a while.

I ain't saying nothing at that point in time. I may come to them later and say, hey, we've got this organization here. Might help you out all this mess.

But like, there's a greater love, there's a greater good that could be achieved instead of being faultless. Like the law is an absolute. In this particular. Ignoring that there's a higher absolute to follow. Yes.

I think that would have kept him out of a lot of problems and I think he would have seen in this personal weakness because the more I don't follow the law, the less trustworthy I am. In his own mind, while other people would have gone, oh, and other things, he's like this.

But like, he let this slip because he really is an honorable man and he cared more about the person than the law. But, you know, it is what it is with Ned. He was never going to change that about himself. So, like, there's a way to follow the law.

Well, and there are times to bend the rules.

Yes.

It's okay to bend rules. Well, we're loving other people. Versus this benefits me.

I like that. I like that. That is. That. That's a very good analysis of Ned. And.

And I think the main thing I'm hearing from you is being able to adapt the way you are.

That's a great one too. Like, he has a lack. An inability to adapt pretty much almost everywhere. Like he can. It's just very temporary. And yeah, it's not gonna last long.

No. And. And again, even though I was joking, but you could see that in the fact that he still wore his hot leather in King's Landing.

Like, literally, you are in a different climate and you ain't change your clothes to match the climate.

Yeah.

Nope.

Couldn't be me.

No. Yeah. No. So, yeah. So, yeah. No, so, yeah, but it's. That. That was good. That was good.

So we are going to ask a special bonus question here for our supporters. That's going to be like, if somehow for some reason, we had to be the hand of Robert Baratheon, what would we do to help curb his baser instincts?

A difficult question. We'll see. So, you know, before we head that way, you have any recommendations for the audience?

Yeah, so. So I would. I would recommend re watching the show. Like, literally. I. I think I'm gonna go back and re. Watch it again because I'm like, yo, like this.

This was a great show outside of the last season, but I still watched it. Just have to put it out there. I, I had. You gotta, you gotta. You gotta close the book. You gotta close the book. I was recommend re watching the show.

Even if you've seen it, there's nothing wrong. No, no harm in watching it again because it is still a great, great show. So that would be my recommendation.

I'm gonna recommend the newest season of Daredevil. I am loving it. There have been some set leaks, some by the actors themselves about who will be appearing in the season after this.

And I am all for it because they are building up on what of kind came before in the Netflix series. Very well. There's a faithful love for what happened before, but also they're telling new stories. Love what they're doing with Daredevil.

So like to thank some people real quick, some supporters. If you'd like to hear your own name, you can always throw $3 away to fourth wall and the link will be down below in the description somewhere.

Thank, thank you to Aaron Hardy, Daniel Sigman, Trip Fuller and James Barrett. But remember, we're all the chosen people and a geekdom of priests.