Christian Ashley and Kevin Schaeffer dive deep into the animated classic, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, in this special episode recorded live on Batman Day 2025. Right off the bat, they highlight the film's emotional depth and its masterful storytelling, showcasing how it explores Batman's origin while intertwining it with his romantic past. The duo shares their love for the characters, particularly Bruce Wayne and Andrea Beaumont, while discussing how their intertwining fates shape Batman's journey. With clever banter and insightful commentary, Christian and Kevin dissect the significance of the film's themes, such as love, loss, and the burden of becoming a hero. This episode is packed with nostalgia, critical analysis, and a sprinkle of humor, making it a must-listen for all Batman fans, especially on this iconic day dedicated to the Dark Knight.

Christian Ashley and Kevin Schaeffer dive into the depths of Gotham's shadows in this special episode of Systematic Geekology, recorded live on Batman Day 2025. The duo waxes poetic about the animated classic, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, a film that has left an indelible mark on the superhero genre. They passionately discuss the emotional weight of the story, juxtaposing Bruce Wayne's tragic past with his fleeting chance at happiness through his romance with Andrea Beaumont. The conversation flows as they dissect the film’s nuanced themes of love, loss, and the heavy toll of the Batman persona on Bruce's psyche. With witty banter and insightful observations, they highlight the film's rich animation and stellar voice acting, particularly praising Kevin Conroy's iconic portrayal of Batman and Mark Hamill's unforgettable Joker. This episode not only celebrates the film's legacy but also serves as a heartfelt tribute to the character of Batman himself, exploring what makes him the enduring symbol of justice and complexity in popular culture.

Takeaways:

• Batman: Mask of the Phantasm masterfully juxtaposes Bruce Wayne's origin with his present struggles, revealing the emotional turmoil of a man caught between duty and personal happiness.
• Christian and Kevin passionately delve into how the film's exploration of Batman's psyche offers a profound commentary on grief and responsibility, making it a standout in animated cinema.
• The chemistry between Bruce Wayne and Andrea Beaumont adds depth to the narrative, as their relationship illustrates the complexities of love and loss in the shadow of Gotham's darkness.
• With its stunning animation and iconic voice performances, this film not only celebrates Batman's legacy but also solidifies its place as a cult classic among fans of all ages.

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Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Hello, geekologist. Thank you guys so much for tuning in.

This upcoming episode is actually one that went live to our YouTube page that Christian Ashley and Kevin Schaefer did discussing a special animated Batman film that they really love. This was done on Batman Day. So they reference Batman Day a lot. They reference some particular stuff about what's being shown on the YouTube page.

I just wanted to explain some of the context of the episode before you jumped in. So, hey, if you hear that stuff, that's just because that's when it was recorded, guys. I really hope you enjoy it.

And if you haven't been on our YouTube yet, please go check that out. Systematic geekology. Or you go to our website. We have a link to the YouTube there as well.

And if you like being called a geekologist and you're proud, you like to dig deeper into modern pop culture stories like those in Batman, well, we have a special T shirt for you, Geekologist, on our website now, so go check that out. It's a lot of fun. The merchandise, the YouTube page, all that stuff. And we hope you enjoy this episode with Christian Ashley and Kevin Schaefer.

Hello, geekologists and Batman acolytes everywhere. This is systematic geekology. We are the priest of the geeks. And I want to wish everyone a happy Batman Day.

And it is, if you didn't know that, that today, September 20th is recognized as National Batman Day to honor my favorite character in fiction and I think a seminal figure of pop culture. So I'm very excited. And today we have a very special episode where we will be talking about one of the most iconic Batman films ever.

And that is Batman Mask of the Phantasm.

If you have not seen this movie, I recommend go watching it, then come back here because we are going to go into deep spoilers and we're to going, going to talk about the legacy of this movie. I'm very excited and I am one of your hosts, Kevin Schaer. I am joined with my fellow Batman acolyte, ecologist Christian Ashley.

Christian, how are you today?

Feeling fine, man. Get to talk about Batman on Batman Day.

What.

What greater purpose could there be in the world?

Right? Right. It was perfect because we, we like, we, the other hosts and us had a meeting the other day and I knew I wanted to do.

I was like, batman Day is coming up. And then I realized, like, oh, it's Saturday. And fortunately, Christian and I were both free and I'm ready to go on this one.

So know, I mean, I, I, there are a ton of conversations on Dark Knight and Then the Matt Reeves, Robert Pattinson, Batman. I love those movies.

But, you know, this is a really special one, and we're going to get into it and go through all the, you know, this, you know, significance of this film, all the Easter eggs. Just so much to break down here. So I'm very excited.

But, Christian, before we get into that, let us do what we always do, is check in on what else we're geeking out on. So, Christian, what are you geeking out on these days?

I didn't catch it while I was in theaters, but I think it just released on Disney. Elio, one of the newest Disney movies. And it was fine. It wasn't groundbreaking, it wasn't offensive.

I think it could have been a little bolder, but it's fine. I enjoyed it.

I do want to check that out.

I saw it just dropped because it came out right around the time I was going to Disney for SMA conference, and I had taken my niece to the how to train your Dragon remake. But we did. That was like. It came out the same weekend as Elio, so I didn't get to see Elio yet, but I saw that dropped. I do want to check that out.

I mean, I. I mean, I'm a Pixar connoisseur, so I got to see it, you know.

Yeah.

But good to know. Awesome. Well, on my end, of course, I'm geeking out on Peacemaker. I'm loving the show.

I listened to the what's news episode with you and Evan, and we'll have to do a full season two breakdown once season two finishes because I have so much to talk about there. It's still a great show. You know, in some ways, I think I. I maybe enjoyed season one a little more.

But that's not to say that season two isn't excellent. It's just a very different tone and a different storyline, which I appreciate is. It is. Yeah.

Which I appreciate because I like that it's not the same thing that, you know, I did have an absolute blast with season one, but, you know, I'm still really enjoying season two. I'm also listening to OR and watching the companion podcast that they do on HBO Max. And you can also, you know, get it on Spotify or wherever you go.

Your podcast. James Gunn hosts that alongside Jennifer Holland and Steve Agee. So they do. They have other cast members. Come on.

They do extensive breakdowns of each episode. So I've been really enjoying that. And then the only other thing I wanted to highlight real quick is a novel.

I'm reading called the City we became by N.K. jemison. I don't know if you're familiar with her work. She wrote the book the Broken Earth trilogy and she also.

Did you read Far Sector, the graphic novel a few years ago? It was. Yeah, the Green Lantern one.

Yeah, I remember you talking about it on comic book ketchup, but I have not read it yet.

Yes, exactly. Yeah, it was kind of. It was a black label story, so it's not canon or anything. But yes, it's one of the new like. And.

And so it's just a. I mean, if you love stuff like, you know, Tom King, that kind of, you know, there's like limited maxis series like that. It's like that. So it's a great, you know, space opera detective story. But the City We Became, it's a fascinating sci fi fantasy.

It's an urban fantasy set in New York. And basically the different facets, the different boroughs of New York are broken up into sort of sentient beings.

And the main story involves the Avatar of New York City has gone missing. And new now this like mysterious kind of entity is trying to assemble the different boroughs represented New York.

So like Queens, Long Island, Staten island, or sorry, Manhattan Staten Island. But yeah, it's a fascinating book. I really like Jemison's writing. And yeah, Far Sector is one I cannot recommend enough. And her novels are great.

So, so very much enjoying that. But yeah, so that's a little on what I'm geeking out on right now. All right, well, let's get into the main topic today.

Again, very excited to talk about this film. In particular, I will go ahead and say that this is my favorite Batman film of all time.

So this is a movie that is set within the world of Batman, the Animated Series. It was directed by the creators of the Animated Series, Eric Radomski and Bruce Tim.

So only about two months after I was born.

So I sadly, I did not get to see it when I came out because I was a newborn, but, you know, I mean, I think my love of Batman, it was pretty early on, but I came out Christmas Day. And I also, I do want to say too, like, is the only animated film in that universe that was theatrical, released.

There have been other DC animated films that did get limited theatrical releases, but they're not part of the same continuity, so they came much later. But yeah. So again, directed by Eric Radomski, Bruce Timm, written by Alan Burnett, Paul Dini, Martin Pasco, and Michael Reeves.

Again set in the same continuity as the Animated series and starring, of course, Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill, and Dana Delaney. Before, she voiced a Lois Lane. Here she is playing the Andrea Beaumont, who we'll get into in a bit.

But this predated her performance as Lois Lane because Superman came a little bit later.

And it also returns other voice actors from the Amanda series, like Bob Hastings as Gordon, Ephraim Zimbabwe Juniors, Alfred Robert Costanzo as Harvey Bullock, etc. Music by Shirley Walker, the great composer of these animated shows.

Also, a little fun fact is that Andrea Beaumont, she was named after Andrea Romano, the great. The late, great casting director. Exactly. Yeah. I really like that as an Easter egg, but unsung hero.

I mean, we like, really, this universe owes so much to, you know, her talent, finding the right time. I mean, she gave us Kevin Conroy, she gave us Tim Daly, Dana Delaney, so many others. So I really like that as an Easter egg. But, yeah.

So this is just a little intro of what this film is. And Christian, would you mind giving just a brief plot summary and then we'll get into details about the movie?

Yeah. So this is loosely based off of the events of a little bit of Batman year one, but mostly Batman Year two.

And that one, there's a character known as the Reaper and another woman that Bruce is interested in in his year as Batman, but this one is being like the origin story of him in the dcau. Oh, and by the way, if we're just talking Batman films, yes, this is my favorite. We're talking Batman Beyond.

Return of the Joker is definitely better, but you know, what nominal film. So just throwing that one out there. So masking a phantasm, basically, we start off with, you know, Batman doing his thing.

We get into some flashbacks where we see him where he's a little younger, he's about to start his crusade against crime, but he doesn't really have his gimmick down yet.

He's living under the shadow of his parents death and all the grief and remorse he's felt from that wanting to avenge them, wanting to bring justice to their murders and the murders of countless other people in Gotham, destroying corruption in the city.

And as he's trying to figure that out, he ends up meeting a young woman at the same grave site he's at because he's visiting his family's funeral plot.

She's visiting her mother, of course, being Andrea Beaumont, an astonishing redhead who he instantly has chemistry with, instantly falls in love with. It's very mutual, but they're very playful about it. And as he's starting to pursue her, he's starting to feel a little better about life.

And unfortunately, though, Andrea's dad, who is kind of a financier, stockbroker kind of guy, has gotten in with the Mob and the wrong kind of people, and with bad investments, he is not going to be able to pay off any debts that he has to him. So they're forced to flee the country. She's forced to leave the ring that Bruce had proposed to her with behind.

And before that is when we see that he had attempted on his first night to fight crime. He was just wearing, like, a generic.

He looks like a robber, essentially, and kind of goes to Alfred and says, look, I got some of the job done, but they weren't afraid of me.

And earlier, there was a moment where he and Andrea were just kind of looking out from Wayne Manor, and a bunch of bats fly out this crevice, and he finds the bat cave. So he adopts a Persona, Batman, after this, and having a really nice moment where he's like, no, I'm happy now. Can't talk to his parents.

Can't I just be happy? Can't I give this up? You know, this wasn't part of the plan. And yet everything falls to pieces, and he just absorbs into the Batman Persona.

So in the present, he's fighting, going against the mobster, Chucky Soule, who I think was invented for this film. I'd have to look it up again.

And in the process, another vigilante shows up, known as the Phantasm, who goes after the various mobsters and leads to them dying in various ways. And it turns out that they are all connected together to the same people who took Andrea and her father, forced him to flee the country.

And she has come back, and, you know, now that the debt's been paid, like, she's not gonna be under any threat. She's kind of cagey on where her dad is all at right now.

And so she and Bruce are reconnecting but she's also hanging out with a guy who's working alongside these people in the mob who used to work for her dad and has abused that connection for his own interests. What was his name? I can't remember off the top of my head. I just watched the movie again last night.

Wait, wait, sorry. The character that was the. The, like the lawyer kind of. Or the monster.

Arthur Reeves, Beck, something like that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. And then we find out through the process that one of the other gangsters goes to the Joker, who we find as part of his origin story here.

He used to be a small time hood working with these mobsters. So this is, you know, compared to other iterations of the Joker, we have a definitive origin for him in the DCAU as far as, like, where he started.

We don't really get to see the vat and all that in this. And the Joker's like, buddy, I got you. No one's gonna hurt my pal Sal. And of course, the Joker does exactly that.

The phantasm tries to go against him. Joker tries to murder the phantasm from afar. The Joker figures out who the phantasm is based on the evidence presented a little before Batman does.

And that's when Batman also finds out because he's going after Andrea to try and like, figure out what's going on, because they she has figured out that he is Batman just from context clues in the past and from what's happening right now. And through all this going on, we get to a head where we go to the World's Fair of Gotham that used to be back in the day.

It's been 20 or so, well, 10 or so years since it was around, and now it's in shambles and the Joker is using it as his main residence. So she's trying to kill the Joker. Batman's trying to make sure that she's, you know, doesn't get too far into this.

And the Joker's brought to justice. And unfortunately, the Joker rigs everything to explode.

And in typical Joker fashion, even though last we see him in this film, he's taken by Andrea, we find out she's a phantasm. Sorry, I forgot to say that it's a fairly obvious reveal in hindsight. Yeah, I'll get to that in my things.

We should criticize about the film later on. But. So Joker escapes, she escapes, Batman escapes, barely. He was trying to reconnect with Andrea. It's never going to work.

He's just too committed to his job. And she has her own issues to work out. But she does leave behind the locket in the Batcave.

Kind of like, okay, she's still alive, she's still out there, but I'm going to continue being Batman. And that's kind of where we end the film off with of course, the bat signal and Batman heading off to help them.

And we get a little nice moment of her by herself. Just kind of like confirmation that she's alive. And that's it.

Right, right. Excellent plot summary. And also as a side note, yes, I also love Return of the Joker. We'll do another episode on that. It's just a. It's a.

It's a really tough choice to do between this one and that, but they're both great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it did. That movie did traumatize me as a kid with the Tim Drake Robin stuff when he gets out.

But, you know, that pretty much is most. I mean, as much as I love the dcau, our childhoods were very influenced by it and very memorable. You know, it's. But yes, yes.

So excellent plot summary, I guess. You know, so getting into initial reactions. So I'll go into like my. The first time I saw this movie, it was years ago.

I don't, I actually don't remember if I saw it as a kid when I was watching the Animated Series because, yeah, they ran the show on CW like all the time. I was watching it, you know, on weekends and weekdays, whatever. And then, you know, later on when it came to streaming.

But I don't, like, I'm trying to remember if it was playing. I may have as a kid. I don't remember if I saw it there or not, but I definitely remember seeing it on DVD years later.

And then it became one of my favorites. And you know, I've, you know, watched it religiously ever since then. So I think I was a little bit later when I first saw it on dvd.

Instantly loved it. You know, again, I wish I could have seen in theaters, but again, I was only two months old when it came out.

I would love for them to do a re release. This would be a great one to see on the big screen.

I actually like a couple years ago for my 30th birthday, I thought about doing renting an Alamo theater and picking this as the movie to show. But then when I looked at the price of how much it would. Oh, did you rent a theater? I was like, eh, maybe not.

You know, because they had that like much. They had it much cheaper during COVID obviously. But I wish they had kind of stuck that around.

But once, you know, theaters started opening again, it was, you know, the prices skyrocketed. But anyway, I, you know, I would love to see this on the big screen. So yeah, there's so many things I love about it.

I mean, we'll get into specifics, but I think, you know, the main thing is just it is this emotional, grounded story, much like all of the animated series is. It, you know, dealt with mature themes and mature topics.

And this one, the way it like I really commend a Batman movie that explores the origin of the character and it doesn't feel like, oh my gosh, they're doing the origin again. I'm so tired of this. I, I know it to death. What makes it really smart here is it's not that the entire movie is an origin story or a year one.

It juxtaposes the origin story with the present day story because we learned that Andrea is so instrumental to Batman's origin. Obviously the, you know, the moment that changes his life forever is when his parents are killed and he watches that.

But this introduces the idea that he was this close to abandoning all that and pursuing a normal, happy life. And you know, that May, you know, would change his life forever too.

And it's only because Andrea got caught in, you know, her journey mirrors Bruce Wayne's in many ways because she is also her father gets, you know, looped into this mafia plot and she has to abandon her dreams, her love and her life to go save him and to, you know, and eventually adopt the mantle of the phantasm. And so I just love that juxtaposition. I love the, you know, you really feel the emotional turmoil that Bruce goes through.

And a lot of that is, you know, Kevin Conrad's performance is so iconic here as it is throughout the Animated series. But this one particular, I mean I only. I wrote down this exchange here in my notes, but maybe one second to pull this up.

But this is in the graveyard scene which there's also. I said this to Christian the other day, but Screen Crush just made a video about this scene specifically and how important it is to the character.

But I'll just read this is direct quote from the scene.

So this is when Bruce is at his parents grave as he's contemplating leaving all of it behind, not becoming Batman or at that point just, you know, a crime fighter and you know, devoting his life to pursuing justice and fighting crime. But he says, it doesn't mean I don't care anymore. I don't want to let you down, honest. But it just doesn't hurt so bad anymore.

You can understand that, can't you? Look, I can give money to the city. They can hire more cops, let someone else take the risk. But it's different now. Thunder and lightning.

Bruce says, please, I need it to be different now. I know I made a promise, but I didn't see this coming. I didn't count on being happy.

And that is just like that moment alone is what takes this movie from, you know, a Batman movie to just a great piece of storytelling. And it's so cinematic, it's so emotional.

It's just, you know, it comments on everything that the character is about and, you know, and it really sums up what makes Batman who he is. And so I love that, you know, the care between them. So that's where I just, you know, I. That's why I love this movie so much.

Of course, the action is great, the animation is great, the voice talents, but it's really the emotional core that draws me in so much and keeps me coming back to it every time. So that was kind of, you know, my, you know, my initial reaction when I watched on DVD the first time, really loved it. I've loved it more ever since.

But Christian, what about you? Do you remember like when you first saw this, either as a kid or later on?

Well, we'll get to that scene later on because I have some things to say. But my initial reaction, well, I was three when it came out, so I definitely didn't see this in theaters.

I'm sure my dad didn't see it until probably we were watching TV one day and it came on. I was probably like 7 or 8. And I remember as a kid just watching it and going, oh, wow, this is amazing. This is cool.

I'm seeing Batman and It's longer than 20 minutes and it just keeps going. So I wasn't like paying attention to the greater plot or anything like that. I wasn't trying to figure out the mystery. I was just a dumb kid.

But yeah, I enjoyed it. I remember loving it. I remember like, oh man, I wish this character would show back up again.

And she does in Justice League very, very briefly in a non speaking role. And what she actually says is voiced by another character in a very powerful scene. But it's, it's just fun movie.

And I remember reading somewhere, I think, but being who he was, I think Ebert Roger Eva, when he reviewed it, he wasn't a big fan, if I'm remembering correctly. And I think that was kind of the, the Typical audience reaction was kind of like, okay, well that's great, but why did this need to be here?

And I'm like, well, I guess you guys weren't ready for it yet. And it's also at kind of the time when, you know, this is still the part where kids shows, cartoons are just kid shows. And I think that was.

The audience reaction for the most part was like, oh, and. But there were darker themes in this movie. It's like, how can I bring my kids to this?

Well, just because it's animated doesn't mean it's automatically for children. So that's one of those things.

And I appreciated that as a kid that they would let me watch these things and with these darker things that I didn't get at that time. But as I grew up, I'd think back and, oh, wait a minute. Oh, man, it's kind of messed up. Oh, what about this?

And I didn't think about the different motivations. And now they can look about it now that I'm older and go, this is a well constructed film.

And actually, I just looked up Ebert. Actually. Ebert and Cisco praised it upon home video release. It was mainly like, I think it was. A lot of critics were accepted.

It was a box office bomb. It did not do well in theater. It was a Christmas Day release. That was the way. So it, like, it's. It was one of those.

Pretty much anyone who saw it liked it. It was just, it did not do well. Finally, I think if it had been released maybe around Halloween, it might have done better.

But a Christmas Day release, like, it did not garner the, you know, the financial success that Warner Brothers was hoping for. But, you know, it, you know, but it was praised. I mean, I, Ebert was a big fan of the new R, you know, style Batman, the, the Pulps and everything.

You know, he loved the Dark Knight trilogy, so. So actually, no, it was praised by critics. It just, you know, it went under the radar when it initially came out of theaters. Okay.

I guess I combined memories or something like that. Or by the way, hello, Phantom Play. Nice to have someone comment while we're doing this.

Good, good Avatar name. I like it. Yeah, very appropriate for this. But. Yeah, but, but, yeah, that was one.

I mean, I, A lot of, you know, I mean, there's a ton of movies out there that had, you know, a very poor theatrical box office reception and then became beloved cult classics after. This is very much one of them.

So it, it garnered much more success once it went to home video and, you know, but, but it was Also more expensive than a traditional, you know, even few episodes of the Animated Series. So they put a lot into it, and then it started to make money back once it went on vhs.

Okay.

But, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tied multiple memories together of different facts in the wrong way. So my bad.

No, it's all good. No worries. That is what, you know, Google is very helpful for as we're doing a live recording.

You know, I came with plenty of notes, but I'm glad you said that because I was curious, too, as soon as you said, oh, what did Ebert think about this? And I looked it up, but, yeah, so no worries. But, yeah, well. Christian, do you have a favorite scene from Ask the Phantasm?

I have a feeling we're both going to talk about it because you've already mentioned it. And it's going to be Bruce talking to his parents in the rain. Just, he's crying, but also the rain is falling on him. Tears mixed in with that.

And there's this moment of almost hope. Like, you know, it's not going to happen because we've already seen the show. We know he's going to be Batman. But this Bruce Wayne is vulnerable.

He's talking to the people he loves more than anyone else in the world who are no longer with him, who are the main motivation for why he's doing what he's doing. And he's like, can't you let me go?

And at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, they would have let you go from this, that they wouldn't have demanded that you do this. But as Andrea kind of brings up in a very hypocritical fashion, I'm not the only one. I'm the only security.

There's only one person here who's held back by his parents or however she words it. And obviously, both of them are right.

Right.

But it's true. And Bruce, at the end of the day, is held back by them. He's held back by his idea of them.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing because it motivated him to become who he is as Batman. But unfortunately, it means that as a result of living that way, if he's going to protect Gotham, he's going to look after everyone else.

Having a family life, it's not impossible, but it's not going to be the easiest thing in the world. It's going to be. There's constantly going to be conflict between the two things. And you know what?

I wouldn't mind a Batman who was married in the same way I would really love a spider man who was married. But other people who were in charge seem to think differently than I, for some reason.

But for Bruce specifically, it's that moment of he has spent his. All his life since, like, eight years old.

However the heck you're going to go with continuity when you know his parents are murdered to the present day, at that time going, this is who I am. This is what I'm about. But then this wrench comes in, this beautiful woman that he could see himself living the rest of his life with.

What does that mean? Does he give up his crusade? Can he just hire more cops or give more money to the city?

And the answer to that would be he could, but he'd end up just as dead as his parents were. Because the police force, most of it, is corrupt, because the politicians are corrupt, because the businesses are corrupt.

The mob is obviously the mob. By definition, they're corrupt.

And trying to do the things the way his parents did is just going to end up with him as dead as them and probably now with a dead wife. So he would have changed nothing that way. So the world needs a Batman.

And it's that that moment of he's going to have to sacrifice what he desires in order for more good to be done in the world. And that's a very haunting scene done extremely well.

Oh, absolutely.

And, you know, and it got me thinking, too, like when I watch that Screencast video and we're having this conversation, you know, obviously we talked a lot about Superman this summer with the movie and, you know, with the Animated Series episode.

And I think one of the big differences between Batman and Superman is that when you look at Superman's origin, there's not so much one defining moment that. That, you know, that is essential to his origin. There are a lot of them. But his becoming Superman is much about his upbringing.

You know, being raised by the Kent. That's really what instills values in him.

Obviously, he's born, you know, with amazing power, has been sent to Earth, but, you know, it's really, you know, a culmination of things that, you know, form him. And, you know, a series of moments with Batman. It's one single moment that transforms him. And that is watching his parents being murdered as a child.

And from that point on, you know, Batman is born. He, Bruce Wayne, becomes the disguise. And so, you know, everything is set into motion after that one event. And, you know, that's what I think.

This film explores so well, the psychology of that. And, you know, I. Can he be happy or is he intrinsically diet tied to his duty, his destiny. And so, I mean, I absolutely love that scene.

One other I want to bring up too, that very much related is when Bruce and Andrea get engaged and when they're, you know, above the they're outside, well, they're on like, looks like kind of an island kind of thing, whatever, but. But right as they get engaged, swarm of bats emerge from their cave and come flying over him.

And this is before like at this point he had already been fighting crime. He had not developed the bat Persona, he had not developed the symbol.

But you know, it's very fitting that you know, at that moment, right when he thinks he's going to give it all up and lead a life of happiness, you know, that's when the gen, the catalyst for the bat Persona, you know, is presented to him. And you know, shortly after of course is when Andrea leaves because you know, she has to go save her father.

And you know, so she takes, you know, a similar path as Bruce to the Batman and you know, everything falls apart. And that's when the image of the bats comes back to him and he realizes that can be my symbol to strike fear into the hearts of criminals.

So I love that juxtaposition. Yes, it's a little heavy handed, but I think it works.

The confrontation with him and the Joker in the world of tomorrow, the Expo presentation there, is extremely well done because the just composition of what we saw in flashback of the hopes for the future and how the home will change and how the world will change, it'll be the new technologies and now it's this decrepit thing that's been left to decay because World's Fair used to be a huge thing back in the day and not so much right now.

And that kind of says a lot about the state of the world and our mutual trust of each other and how we don't pursue more technological achievements and advancements like that for the betterment of mankind would be like the vision. And now it's struck away. The Joker has free reign of the place, much like crime has free reign of Gotham without the Batman's interference.

So having him kind of confront him there and of course, really it's just a joke, would be like Mark Campbell kills it in this film.

He is having the time of his life and just like even he's not voicing anything but like you could tell like when he's just moving along the city with a top of a building on top of his head, just screwing with Batman. It's very looney tunes. But it's also deeply, darkly horrifying at the same time when he almost kills Batman by.

With that same thing that he was using for a hat. It's so well done.

Totally agree. I mean, and I was listening to.

Or I was watching a YouTube video about this, and they said that they got kind of the idea for that World's Fair symbolism because Paul Dini and Bruce Tim were, I think, on a road trip and they came across a decrepit World's Fair, and that gave them the idea. I was like, oh, this would be great to have that.

Like, you know, have a scene with Andrea and, you know, like, you know, glowing Metropolitan Amusement park and then, you know, see the remnants of it years later. And that became a perfect setting for the big climactic battle at the end. I absolutely love that as well.

It's.

It's fantastic. And it. And it is, again, I know I'm using the word juxtaposition over and over again here, but it is like. So that's.

Visually, that comes up again and again this film, and it's. And it's done well. Yes, absolutely. Great picks there. And Christian, do you.

I mean, obviously we love Batman, but do you have a favorite supporting character in this film?

I didn't mention it much in my summary, but. Well, maybe didn't mention him at all. But Alfred. Alfred is a huge part of who.

How Bruce ended up as he is, allowing him to go gallivanting across the world to learn these different martial arts and techniques across the world. But at the same time, being that person he can always come back home to. And at that same time, he doesn't want this life for Bruce.

He wants him to be more adjusted. He wants him to settle down and to have a wife and kids and live well, because this is this kid that he raised after his parents were gone.

He wants better for him, but at that same time, he also knows the oath that Bruce made, the. Everything that he's working towards. And there's that he's still snarky with them and that, you know, loving, servile way.

But the moment when Bruce puts on the cowl for the first time and he goes, oh, my God. Just like. He just can't help but think it seeing. Because no one's seen anything like this before.

This is the Batman come to life, and he gets to be the first person terrified by it.

I totally agree. Alfred was my pick as well. And I've got a few quotes that I love from him in this movie in particular.

So there's an exchange early on when Arthur Reeves is on TV and he says, what kind of city are we running when we depend on the support of a potential madman? And Alfred turns off the TV and says, what rot, sir? Why are you. Why, you're the very model of sanity.

Oh, by the way, I pressed your tights and put away your exploding gas balls. So I love that exchange. And then there's a great moment at the end on a more somber tone.

And, you know, that really, like you said, highlights the, you know, fatherly figure aspect of Alfred. And he says, vengeance, black as the soul. Bruce, I've always feared that you would become that which you out against.

You walk the edge of that abyss every night, but you haven't fallen and in. And I thank heaven for that. I just. Oh, and then.

And the performance of Ephraim Zimbalus Jr. Just, you know, And I think this is one of his best performances as the character. Not that he isn't great throughout the show, but it's.

Yeah, it's not even with, you know, he doesn't have a ton of screen time here, but when he's on screen, he absolutely captures who Alfred is, why he's so instrumental to Batman's character. And I also, you know, I put his. My, you know, headline name here, Robin, MIA because they did not include Robin in this movie.

They did not include Harley Quinn. And I think it is for the betterment.

As much as I love Robin, I think it would have been a more overstuffed movie if they had, you know, tried to have too much and have him at the battle at the end.

I think this really works to, on, you know, the supporting side, focus on Bruce and Alfred's relationship as a really important piece of the narrative. So it works really well. But. And, oh, and you pulled that spot right there.

Yeah, yeah.

I think, if I remember correctly, Harley Quinn hadn't been made yet. It's like one or two years after this film.

I don't. I think she had begun.

I could be wrong, but I. I think she had because Dana Delaney was a friend of Arlene Sorkin, the voice actress who played Harley.

So she had.

Yeah, yeah, because Arlene Sorkin. Yeah, Arlene Sorkin introduced the creators to Danielaney. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Then the other one, for sure. I know, is that in the novelization, Robin is mentioned as going to college.

That makes sense.

That's all they had to explain that. So. Yeah.

No worries. Well, they did that in the animated series too. He's not. Robin's not in Every episode, there are times where he's in and out and I. And you.

It worked really well for that. Also, you pulled up that frame here for. I know this won't be on the audio, but.

But Christian pulled up this frame of Alfred when he first sees Bruce in the Batsuit. And it's this, like, you know, his jaw drops, his eyes widen.

It's this great expression where he's like, oh, you know, I love how much emotion is conveyed in the art there because, you know, he sees both the culmination of everything.

Bruce has worked hard, and this is, you know, Batman coming to life, but he's also just as terrified as criminals would be when they first see this, you know. You know, this isn't a, you know, campy, you know, guy in tights.

This is a, you know, really terrifying shadowy figure that is out there to, you know, strike fear into the hearts of criminals. And so I. I love what they do there. And also, then I get the score there by Shirley Walker is just phenomenal. Also, fun fact that I didn't.

I actually did not know until this time when I was stayed through the credits is that Han Zimmer was also on the music team here. Because this was before, you know, I mean. I mean, he was at this point, you know, he had done, I guess, Lion King at that point. I mean, he was.

He's a rising name. But, you know, even years before the Dark Knight trilogy, he was one of the. I guess, like.

I don't know, like what his official title was, but he helped with the composition here was one of, you know, people working on the Spore. So that I thought was fascinating, too. Oh, yes, a lot of. A lot of great. You know, you can't go wrong with.

Scores for the dcau.

No, they're the absolute best. I have them on multiple playlists and. Yeah, and again, I just.

Like I said earlier, this had a. I think the influence here is very apparent for the Dark Knight trilogy. I mean, obviously, it draws on some of the same source material that Dark Knight trilogy. There is year one aspects in here.

There's the detective story. All of that, you know, comes across here. So. So, yes, we're both in agreement that Alfred, I think, is the standout supporting character here.

And it's one of the best, you know, you know, examinations of him and Bruce's relationship. So I love that. And then let's. So let's get into. I mean, we kind of talked about a little bit, but.

But some of the central themes of this movie and how they Play out through the story.

I mean, who is. Who is Batman? What makes Batman Batman is explored in this film pretty well.

It's like this whole idea of, like, my parents were murdered and therefore I'm going to devote my entire life to becoming this figure that's feared by the same people who would take them away from me and anyone else. Inherently silly idea. But what this film does is it, folks.

Well, what kind of person would make that someone who was hurt that much, who has been traumatized that much, who would give up everything else in pursuit of bringing justice to people who can't do it for themselves? And what is the cost of that? Well, we see the cost. He can't live a normal life, or at least he thinks he can.

Things conspire in a way that prevent that from happening. I think it's still possible to an extent for him to have a normal ish life.

But I think what this does is it kills that desire in him so he can focus solely on the task at hand, which is save Gotham from itself. Get rid of corruption, fight for the innocent people who can't do anything about what's going on.

Make sure that no mobsters are put the test for what they've done. Make sure the Joker can't just kill as much as he wants. And that takes a toll on a human being. Like, Bruce is still just a human.

Yeah, it's been popular to meme about the Bat God, as it were. If you give Batman enough prep time, he can beat anyone. And there's still just a man under that mask.

And that is a very wounded man who is doing things even though it's costing him a lot to do it.

Well, and going back to your point about like, you think Batman could be married, fireman could be married, I totally agree. I think it was a mistake in editorial. Like, I mean, it's.

I know this is a whole nother episode, but when, you know, they built up the marriage between Batman and Catwoman years ago, only for it to be, you know, and they had, you know, like, oh, this is a big event, comic shop celebrating, only for them to abandon that. I very much disagree with that decision because what I think, you know, it's different from here when this happened, when Andrea leaves him.

Keep in mind this is a young Bruce Wayne here. When that happens, it's before he's gone through. He doesn't have the bat family, he doesn't have.

So when that happens, he sees it as this kind of like, you know, universal side, even though I think, you know, Bruce Wayne is more agnostic. It's more, you know, but like, But I also think he has some kind of, you know, pull toward, you know, some conception of fate or destiny.

And he's, you know, he signs, pulling him around. And when Andrea leaves him, that's the moment where he says up, no, this must mean I can't, you know, ever be happy or lead a normal life.

I have to devote myself to Batman fully and just have Bruce as a disguise. What I think DC editorial makes the mistake of, you know, saying, oh, you know, Batman can never be happy.

I don't think that's true because I think he matures as he goes along in his journey and he become, he.

He has the bad family, he has other people in his life to show that, yes, while it would always be a risk for him to bring someone into his life and, you know, whether it's Catwoman or whether someone else. And, you know, that, you know, gives them his enemy spotter of, you know, someone he cares about.

But it's like there are other people he cares about, including Robin, including Batgirl, including Alfred. And so I think that's the mistake they make.

But here it's understandable because again, he's young, he's tormented, he's, you know, still figuring out his path. But that is one thing I wish they could, you know, rectify later on is, yeah, let him get married eventually. Let Spider man get married.

Because once they are, you know, older and wiser and they learn to, you know, embrace the realities of superhero life, but also recognize that you can still have people you're care for.

And yes, you're always going to have risk, but really, that's anyone, you know, I mean, and so, yeah, that's where I, you know, I, that, yeah, that Batman 50 in the Rebirth. I, I did not like that choice. But it is what it is. Again, we can do a separate episode on that another time.

Well, well, we're on the subject. We might as well keep going. You're the ones writing the stories. You're the ones writing stories.

Yes, there's a risk to a character like Batman or Spider man being married in the same way it was a risk for the Elongated man to be married. Right. And right. His wife, whatever happened, I'm not going to say what happened to her. Very unfortunate.

Or we have the infamous fridging incident for Kyle Ky Rayner and his girlfriend at the time. You can write that, but you don't have to. You're in charge of the story. If you, you can have these People get married and they.

Their wives not being the damsels in distress.

Yep.

You can make them full characters and have arcs and character casts and everything. That has nothing to do with them being under the threat of your main characters, villains. That is not interesting.

That is the easiest thing anyone can do. It's like, oh, well, right. It's all bad. He can't have this because the life. The life won't allow him to have it. It's like, no, like, over time.

Look, just as an example, Mary Jane learned from Captain America how to fight. She wasn't the best of the best, but you know what? She had some training.

So if something came up, she could, you know, hold herself a little bit judic. Catwoman can hold her own like no one else.

Yeah.

She fights above her weight class. Go ahead.

Yeah, that's my. I mean, that's the biggest thing is, like, Batman, his love interests are not damsels in distress. Like, him and Catwoman could make it together.

He get like Superman and Lois. Like, hello. Like, Superman has a whole family. And that's never, you know, like, I mean, yes, again, there is danger there. But, like, my thing is it.

We all have risks. We have. I mean, basically, if you have a loved one, there's always a risk of losing them. Right.

Like, I mean, you never know what could happen day to day. Yeah. Yeah. A loved one could get sick a lot. You know, like, you're at that rate of, like, you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow.

So I. Yeah, but I 100 agree. It's such an easy and outdated stereotype to do. I'm like, we're not in the 80s anymore.

We're not, you know, the, like, we can evolve past this stereotype of, you know, particularly female love interest being plot devices. And I, you know, and it's just. Yeah, yeah. So again, I think here it's. It's a very well ch story. It works. But again, Bruce is younger here.

He, you know, it is inexperienced and, you know, there's that. And again, I think he sees these, like, signs pulling him away from, you know, pursuing a happy life. But it doesn't always have to be that way.

So I. I 100% agree there.

And to the credit, Andrea is not like that. She takes charge of her own life. She proves that she's capable. Yes. She goes about it the wrong way, you know.

You know, you can argue whether or not killing these men is worthy thing to do. I'd say for Batman, absolutely not. Because he can't be Batman anymore for her maybe a little more on her side, I understandable.

But she's letting revenge and grief take control, which is another thing that's part of this because we have the Batman side of things. You know, we look at her side of things. She had everything that she wanted right in front of her. A dad she loved, a life she loved.

Yeah, her mom was gone, but she could visit with her and talk about her all the time and have conversations with her. And in a very fun and quirky way. It wasn't like, unsettling. It's just like how she was processing her grief.

And then unfortunately, it becomes too much when her dad does end up being murdered by the same people, even though he paid them off, they just couldn't handle the fact that he ran away from them in the first place. And now she's left on her own. And what does she do? Well, she becomes a mass vigilante because we're in a DC universe.

And she decides to go after these people and try and kill them because these are not good people. And once again, I don't want my Batman to kill. I want my Batman to be the guy who's like, nope, if I go too far, I'm not going to stop.

So let me prevent myself from ever going that way. But for someone like her, sure. But that's going to cause friction even more between them because of Bruce's philosophy and Andrea's philosophy.

So even after all this, they're just not going to work because they're two different people now. They're not who they were when he first proposed.

But for her, it's showing that she regains a little bit of herself back just from being around Bruce and seeing what he's done and seeing who he is. That gives her a little more hope. But like, she's not completely broken at the end when we see her on the cruise ship.

But like, she's still not well, but she's ultimately better off than where she started because of her learning to overcome a little bit some of her grief and her past.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I. But yeah, no, I totally agree there. It's, you know.

Well, that kind of segues into our topic of like anything we didn't like about the movie, like either story wise or anything else. I'll go ahead and just throw out a quick one here. Like, I. So I am usually a big fan of Easter eggs and I like a lot. Yeah.

But the one here I always laugh at. And I laughed the first time I was like, really?

But they ham fist a Warner Brothers logo into that scene right before the climactic final battle where in the remnants of the World's Fair park. And it's just like, okay, really? Do they have to, you know, they like. They couldn't have put like, you know, you know about like a. Like I.

What I liked in Superman was they named street names after comic creators. They had like Wade street and Jurgens Drive and so like that. I like ones like that.

But like Warner Brothers really, like, you're in the opening credits, you really need that. So that's my little nitpick there. But I. That I laugh at every time.

Yeah, yeah. It's fairly obvious. It's right there in your face when it does happen.

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah.

But for me, mine's more, like I mentioned earlier in the episode is so super obvious now, even though I knew already who the phantasm is. Yeah, there's the. The other red herring is it might be her dad, but that's not satisfying.

And in the year two comics that these are loosely based off of, it did turn out to be his love interest dad. But I have not read those comics. I can't tell whether or not that's an effective reveal or not. But for here, this is like.

Well, it can only be one person. And the only way you couldn't think it is is if you have. Well, a woman couldn't do these things.

Even though we've shown in scenes that she has some fighting technique, some training, so she is able to do some of these things that, yeah, maybe an ordinary socialite of Gotham City wouldn't be able to do. But she's not ordinary. So as opposed to not as good a film in the dcau, the Mystery of the Batwoman, I think is the name of it.

Yeah, yeah.

It's also a directed dvd. There's a, in my opinion, a better reveal of like, who is the Batwoman? And you have three candidates in that film. And guess what?

Spoilers for 20 year old material. It's all three of them.

Yeah.

And there were reasons, seeds planted for all three of them to plausibly be the Batwoman. And also for you to think, oh, maybe not, because you would see one and the Bat one would be there, but that suspect was there.

But also when you get the reveal that it's all three of them, it's got. Oh, but they did that on purpose. That was much better handled.

I think that's a Adeni and the rest of like, after years of experience getting a little more handling on writing and stuff like not say Mystery of the Batwoman isn't the greatest dcau film of all time, but it, the, the reveal, I would argue is better.

No, I agree there. You know, I'm kind of with two minds of this because one of my best friends is huge on big twists and, you know, revealing.

He loves, you know, murder mysteries and everything and, you know, he gets disappointed when the reveal is totally obvious. And yes, here it is.

But, you know, they like to see that the only, you know, kind of like, you know, other one they throw out is that, could it be Carl Beaumont? And they had the same voice actor play Carl as they did the voice of Phantasm. So, you know, they have that thrown away there.

But yeah, it's, I mean, the first time I saw I was like, yeah, it's gonna be Andrea. Like, she arrives the same time Fantasm shows up. It's just, you know, all the, all the clues are there.

But for me, I don't necessarily need it to be a mouth dropping reveal because again, it is such a more emotionally gripping story that I'm more interested in that. So it's, you know, it's more, it's like as the audience, you already know who it is.

It's more watching the journey of Batman figuring it out and, you know, and I think a part of him knows early on, but he doesn't want to believe it.

It's similar to when Red Hood shows up and he has this feeling that it's Jason Todd, but he doesn't want to believe it, you know, and so I think it's more, that aspect is more powerful than just like, oh, let's make this, you know, a really intricate detective story and make it really hard to guess who the villain is under the mask. So I, you know, but, but I agreed. It's like they make it pretty obvious here.

And yeah, Mr. Batwoman is a good comparison there because that one they do a really good job of like, once they set up that reveal, that's all three. I do. That one's also really enjoyable.

So, yeah, so, I mean, yeah, I don't like, it's not something I despise about it, but it's like they could have made maybe a little more effort to like, or, or if they didn't want it to be a surprise for the audience at all, then just, you know, have it be revealed even earlier. Again, because for the audience, it's not as big an investment as it is for Bruce finding all that out.

So, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's a, I think that's fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But overall, I mean, there's. I mean, beyond that, I mean, the Warner Brothers gimmick, there.

There's not really any other, like, big criticisms I have. I think it is a, you know, I mean, a really wonderful movie.

And as far as it holds up to other theatrical Batman movies, because, again, that's why I put this in the. Not just because it's great on its own.

Even if this hadn't been released in theaters, I would still put it up there with Dark Knight and Batman 89 and the Batman, you know, but. But since it is, you know, we compare it to all these others. Like, so how do you think? Like.

Yeah, I mean, I. I know we, you know, very much love this movie, but, you know, I, I seeing it as it compares to other renditions of the character that we're so familiar with. Like, you know, I mean, I.

Obviously we love Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill, but you know how, like, if you have, you know, if you're putting this in comparison with the Nolan trilogy or Matt Reeves or Tim Burton, you have kind of any thoughts there?

Yeah, I'd have more to say about the Matt Reeves stuff if we could actually get a film beyond the first one. But even though the first one on its own, yeah, it's an effective universe. It's setting them up. There's enough there to still be good.

And I love that film. I just wish we could have gotten more sooner. Now, Affleck, Batfleck. I couldn't care less about the dceu. It's not my thing.

I know there's some Snyder fans out there who are. Who are raising up their hands and to try to find out why this. So they can burn my house down and I say bring it.

Just wait for my family gets out first. I don't care for that one. The Dark Knight trilogy, fantastic in comparison.

I think they're doing their own things differently, but also sharing aspects. Obviously, the Year One influences are big on both of them doing a great job there. And that's a pretty good trilogy overall.

The last one's not my favorite, but this overall, like, Dark Knight is one of the best movies ever made. I'll throw that one out there. Then, of course, the Keaton and Kilmer and Clooneys, they're fine.

They serve their purpose, which was to make Batman Batman again to the general audience after a Batman who had seen only the 66 or 60 show, which, hey, it served its purpose too.

It was supposed to be what it's supposed to be, and I love it for what it is, but it's also not the one I gravitate the most to now, other DCAU films, I mean, nothing beats Return of the Joker, but I mean, this is not trying to be that film. They're doing different things. So overall, as far as comparing, yeah, there's some I like a little more, but this film stands on its own fairly well.

It doesn't really need to defend itself too much, in my opinion.

No, I totally agree. And I mean, I have similar thoughts as you in comparison with the live action ones, but.

And then if I had to rank my favorite animated Batman films, it would be this Return of the Joker and Under the Red Hood or the kind of like, holy trilogy. For me, even though, like, even though under the Red Hood is in a different continuity, that is still a great movie.

And, you know, I, I would love to see a version of that story appear in live action.

I mean, I know the, you know that while the, like, the DCU Batman is kind of on, I guess on hold or, you know, they're still figuring out the script and they want, they want to do there and. But they have said that they want to, you know, adapt the Grant Morrison stuff and have it be about Batman. Damien.

I think Red Hood would personally fit really well into that as a villain there. So it'd be kind of a cool if they could adapt both, you know, the Grant Morrison Batman, Robin and then Douglas under the Red Hood.

I think that would be cool. But, yeah, so I love those movies and. Yeah.

And again, I, I was one of the things we, you know, we talked a little bit about how Year one has a heavy influence on this and on the Dark Knight trilogy. But there's a scene specifically when Batman is being framed as, you know, people think he's phantasm and the cops go after him.

That's a direct reference to Year one, where he also escapes a, you know, burning building and has to evade the police. And it's beautifully orchestrated here just from a cinematic lens and. Yeah.

And that, you know, I think very much influenced Batman Begins years later. So. Yeah, but it, but this one for me just holds up as.

Sorry, I didn't interrupt you.

No, no, no, you're good. No worries.

So we have not seen the newest Batman yet as far because Battinson is going to be in his own universe compared to the Gun DC movies. But we have seen Batman in creature commandos for two seconds.

And in those two seconds he was on screen, I felt more menace and authority than I ever did from any of the Snyder stuff. And you can at me, it was a choice.

I mean, it's like, I know they want to go for an older, very buffed up one, so. Yeah, it'll be interesting, you know, and I mean, I, you know, I. There's even talk that that gun might eventually bring in Pattinson into dc.

I don't know. There's. There's a lot of, you know, like, I'm glad. I'm kind of glad.

Even as a die hard Batman fan, I'm just glad in the dcu, we're focusing on other characters right now and we're building the foundation of the dcu. Rob Superman and all these other characters, give it room to breathe, and then we'll bring in Batman later. But, yes, I do. Right.

You know, that image is striking one. We'll see if they stick to that or if they modify it at all once we do get a version brought to the screen. But I, hey, I hear your feelings there.

You know, it almost, I mean, reading absolute Batman, it almost looked like that, you know, like the buffed up, you know, like, you know, you know, that works great for that story. Alternate universe. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Awesome. Well, yeah. So, Christian, I, you know, I know we can agree we love Mask with asm. If you.

Well, if you've never seen it, I hope you didn't listen to this whole episode because we spoiled it deeply. But, but, you know, if you haven't seen in a while, go back and watch it, you know, tell your friends about it.

It's a great way, I think, to celebrate Batman Day. We love this character. And Christian, before we go, do you have any recommendations for Batman related material to check out? Yeah.

In honor of the newly released Batman and Deadpool, which was pretty good overall, I preferred the Captain America and Wonder Woman. Surprisingly, it was really well written.

I'm going to recommend the crossover, two crossovers that they did with Batman and Spider man in the 90s, where in one of them they go after Carnage and Joker. The other they go against Kingpin and Ra's al Ghul. Excellent stories, excellent picks.

Yeah, I still need to pick up the. The Batman and Deadpool this week. I know. You know, it's a, it's one of those. I wasn't, I was like, okay, that should be interesting.

I'm not like dying to pick it up, but it should be fun enough. But, but my recommendations would be.

Who's my favorite Robin? Stephanie Brown, Cassie Kane, Playface. Playface is part of the Bat family in this run. So really love that one.

It's got a, you know, a team of artists that are fantastic. So go seek that one out.

And then also a novel, prose fiction is Batman Resurrections by John Jackson Miller, which Systematic Ecology did an episode on earlier this year on the All Reading count series on YouTube. So go check that out. But that one is set in the same universe as the 89 films. So it's a direct continuation of Batman and Batman Returns.

And yeah, I really love that one. And there is a sequel coming out, I believe in October. So very excited for that one. Welcome. This has been great.

And I also I forgot to do our Raiden review earlier, but please, if you are a fan of the show, please rate review. Subscribe so Josh doesn't yell at us, but. But yes. And if you are a Patreon subscriber subscriber, know that we love you.

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