Andy Walsh, Evan Garcia, Kevin Schaefer, Will Rose, and Christian Ashley dive deep into the galaxy far, far away, focusing on the Mandalorian and Grogu film while casting their eyes toward the future of the Star Wars franchise. They kick things off by reflecting on the film's nostalgic elements, especially how it pays homage to classic stop-motion techniques, sparking some heartfelt emotions among the crew. As they banter about where they think the galaxy should head next, the hosts share their hopes for more diverse storytelling that goes beyond the epic battles against tyranny, exploring themes of faith, adventure, and the complexity of human (and alien) relationships in a war-torn universe. With plenty of humor and insightful commentary, this episode is all about the potential of Star Wars, pondering what new paths might unfold and how the franchise can keep evolving while still honoring its roots. So grab your lightsaber and tune in for a conversation that’s as entertaining as it is thought-provoking!

Andy Walsh and his crew—Evan, Will, Kevin, and Christian—return to the airwaves with a fresh take on the Mandalorian and the ever-adorable Grogu, diving deep into the future of the Star Wars franchise. Kicking things off, they reflect on how the film taps into the nostalgia of yesteryears, especially through the masterful stop-motion work of Phil Tippett. Evan shares an eye-opening moment where the film’s visuals transported him back to his childhood, evoking emotions that remind him of the classic days of cinema. The gang then shifts gears, pondering the future of Star Wars and what narratives might emerge from the film's conclusion. They discuss the rich tapestry of stories that Star Wars could weave, from exploring new characters to revisiting familiar faces in exciting new contexts.

The conversation takes a thoughtful turn as they dissect the archetypal storytelling that has characterized Star Wars over the decades. Andy introduces three compelling story arcs for future films: the timeless struggle against tyranny, lighthearted adventures, and the philosophical inquiries surrounding the Jedi and the Force. The hosts engage in a lively debate about whether the focus should remain on legacy characters or if the time is ripe for new stories that could expand the galaxy's lore. They collectively agree that while nostalgia plays a significant role in the franchise's appeal, it's essential for Star Wars to embrace innovation and explore uncharted territories, creating a balance that keeps fans both engaged and excited.

With a blend of humor and insight, the episode also tackles the intricacies of fandom and the sometimes tempestuous nature of online discussions. The crew shares their personal experiences with the fan community, reinforcing the idea that while passion is vital, respect and understanding are equally crucial. As the episode draws to a close, the hosts encapsulate the excitement surrounding the future of Star Wars, encouraging listeners to celebrate the franchise's evolution while cherishing the memories that brought them together. Full of wit and charm, they remind everyone that in this ever-expanding universe, there’s always room for new adventures and laughter, inviting fans to buckle up for the ride ahead.

Takeaways:

• In the podcast, they delve into how the Mandalorian film cleverly pays homage to Star Wars history, utilizing stop motion and classic special effects techniques that evoke childhood nostalgia.
• The hosts believe that the future of Star Wars should balance nostalgia with fresh storytelling, exploring new character arcs while respecting existing lore.
• Listeners are encouraged to consider the role of Jedi in future narratives, particularly how faith and philosophy intertwine with the Force in storytelling.
• There’s a conversation about the need for Star Wars to take risks in its storytelling, moving beyond familiar tropes to explore deeper themes and new genres.
• The discussion highlights the importance of diverse narratives within the Star Wars universe, suggesting that exploring different time periods could revitalize the franchise.
• They joke about the potential for a 'Star Wars surfing' movie, showcasing their lighthearted banter while discussing serious topics about the franchise's future.

Mentioned in this episode:

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To quote the Bard, this long term contract I had to sign means I'll be making these movies till the end of time. That's right. We're back on systematic ecology, talking more Star wars, more Mandalorian Grogu, but more mostly the future of Star Wars.

I'm Andy Walsh and I am joined again by a squadron of hosts, Will, Evan, Kevin and Christian. We just finished in real time talking about the Mandalorian and Grogu.

We took a little pause and then we're going to come back and, and talk about the future of Star wars where we think this movie is pointing to, where we'd like to see things going, all that good stuff.

But yeah, so if you are just joining us, there should be an episode wherever you're Getting this on YouTube, on your podcast platform that is the first part of this episode with the same crew.

So if you want to check that out to hear our thoughts on the movie, to hear what we're geeking out on right now, we're just going to dive in and talk about the future of Star Wars.

But we would be happy while we were doing so if you would rate, like subscribe all those good things so that we can get recommended to other people, so that we can get more visibility so you can be always the first to know about future videos, future podcast episodes, all that good stuff.

And you are more than welcome also to become a member, to find the link in the show notes or the show description, click on that to go to our FourthWell site and get all the details on how to become a member. Like Justin Vaughn, you can support us financially and get your name shouted out. You can get access to bonus content.

Like the bonus question we'll be talking about in a little bit. Which of the many, many, many announced but as of yet unmade Star wars movies would we put highest priority on?

And as mentioned in the last episode, if we get 50 likes on this or the previous video, Will Rose will don a Rot of the Hutt costume and put on a show for the, the good people of North Carolina and the good people of the Internet. So you can, you can look forward to that. You just got to get you yourself and 49 of your closest friends to like this video or the previous one.

So yeah. So guys, welcome back all of you. Again, we've got Kevin, Evan, Will and Rose here and myself, I'm Andy and we are going to be talking Star Wars.

And to kick us off, Evan had just a couple thoughts more about the Mandalorian Grogu film, the way that it looks back to Star wars history in stop motion in X Wing and fighter pilot, fighter squadron action. And then we'll look forward to what Star wars has for us in the future.

Yeah. Yeah, thanks. We are having fun here. And, and, and, and just that I wanted to bring up the, the way that it, that it paid homage to its.

A legacy of a special effects and having the legendary Phil Tippet work on the, on the, the stop motion of some of these, on some of these characters. And it really touched me. I found myself in the middle of the fight with the, with the big droids that Amanda was trying to take down.

I was getting kind of emotional. Like, why am I getting emotional? And I was talking to my wife about it and she goes, you know what it is?

It's because the stop motion was done so well that it reminds you of your childhood and all these stop motion shows and the, in the special effects side of things. I was like, hot damn, that is on point. Like, thank you, babe. I was like. Because it just felt so bright and, and they just did it so well.

So that, and the, and the Lex Wings coming to the rescue. I think that was a fun emotional ride and a good excuse to put Dave Filoni in there.

And the other directors from the show like Deborah Chow and, and Ulrich from Uiwa were there. Oh, and. And a Doug Chain. I think that's the first time he was put on screen. So I think, I think. Yeah.

So I just wanted to bring that up and how it pointed back to its past by still going forward.

Yeah. So maybe folks who are not as familiar, who are younger than perhaps Will and myself.

Can you or somebody remind us who Phil, you had one job Tippett is and maybe even what stop motion is?

So Phil Tippett is a, He's a special effects master and he got his start in some short films around in the, in the. When, when, when Star wars first coming out. And he, and he focused on. On the creature designs and stop motion.

Which, which, which stop motion is a type of animation where you have a model of a character and you move it and then you take a frame and, and then you move it again and you take a frame and do that about 24 times a second and you do that the whole film. So it's a lot of tedious work. But, but when it's, but when it's done right, it's very effective. Has the weight of a, of, of.

Of kind of being tangible that the CG effects just usually, unless you're James Cameron and you have 2,000 bazillion dollars. You can, you can make it.

Right.

But the most, but most cgfx, they don't have the weight that can come from that. And so. Yeah, so, so, so, so, so, so Phil Tippet was able to pioneer a lot of that for, for the original trilogy and he. And he.

And he became legendary. And, and, and so. Yeah.

Yes.

And then what was the name of the, the documentary series you and I both watched on Disney plus that goes into the history of Lucasfilm and all the special effects and everything. Oh, I have to look this up.

Because Light and magic.

There you go. That was.

Yes.

About fantastic series.

Yeah. Where they, where they, where they point out the whole history of the creativity of ilm. So. Yeah.

And I thought the movie did a good job mixing with cgi, computer animated, digital and, and practical effects.

So I thought it was a good blend because you have like the practical effects from the original series, the prequels where like George Lucas dived right into like finally I can do the kind of CGI stuff that I want to do. And then the sequel trilogy did some of that.

But I think this movie did a real good job balancing both practical effects and models along with using the technology of the day to, to, to, to illustrate it.

You can see like in the original films, like how much someone like Harryhausen had an effect on, you know, some of the stop motion used and everything. If you haven't seen a Harryhausen film, like, I'm sorry, you're missing out. Like that man knew what he was doing.

And from what I understand, that is a dying art in Hollywood.

I read an article a couple years ago about how very few people know how to do it well anymore or actually are wanted to do it well because the studios focus on cgi. And CGI is not some bad thing that, you know that no film should ever have it in it. Like Star wars uses it to great effect.

But there is still something very special about being able to not manipulate it with human hands. Yeah.

And of course with the X wing thing you said earlier too, Evan, like I'm a six year old child, whenever I see an X Wing, you know, flying and blowing stuff up, like.

Cool.

Yeah. Is it like the greatest thing of substance ever? But you know what you don't have? Not everything has to be that.

I could see an X wing blowing up a bunch of, you know, hut turbo lasers and organizations and stuff like that, causing a big fireball.

And they said turbo.

Yeah. And you get to see a bad guy get blown up, you know, that's all I need sometimes.

That was a good one. Yeah.

And can I just say it? Just wrapping up with this movie, like, I want to vacate. What is. Where's the rebel vase? Adelphi. Is that the rebel base? The Caribbean. Like, who.

That sounds like a great, great place to vacation, to do a sabbatical, hang out on the beach, catch some waves. Like, I want some Star wars surfing.

I need that, like, let's, let's have like a hovercraft, you know, in, in the ocean, doing some, some water sports. I need some Star wars water sports.

We had, we had the Silver Surfer. Now we need some Star wars surfing sports.

Full circle.

They. They clearly jumped the shark.

There we go. No, we got to save that for the X Men movies. The X Men have space sharks and space whales.

There you go.

There we go.

But that's a whole other podcast.

So looking ahead a little bit, maybe to get the ball rolling, we touched on this a little bit with Will's Star wars vs Star Monsters, Star Adventures comment.

I'm going to throw out there that I think as the years have gone on, we've seen that there are a few different kinds of stories that Star wars can do well or that have been done well in the Star wars universe. And maybe you guys have other thoughts about whether I'm right or not, whether there are other kinds of stories.

And then maybe should they keep telling these kinds of stories? Should they find new ways to tell stories? So I came up with three.

I think the first one is the sort of rebelling against tyranny or authoritarianism story. And that's obviously right there from the get go, the rebelling against the Empire kind of thing.

So that, you know, the original trilogy does that well and, or Rogue One. Those are, those are those kinds of stories. This film has some of that.

And you know, all of them touch on different elements of these, but some of them, you know, kind of highlight different ones. So there's that one.

And then you can see that the sequel trilogy really kind of bending over backwards to figure out how to tell a rebel against authoritarianism story, even though the anti authoritarians are ostensibly the ones in power. So you got that kind of story. You've got the let's just go on an adventure story. Right. So, you know, a lot of Mandalorian has been more in that mode.

Will, you know, kind of highlighted that that's what a lot of this movie is about.

Skeleton crew.

Skeleton crew. Yeah. It's like that some of the Clone wars can Be like that, right?

Because you're just kind of telling standalone stories or two episode arcs that are more just sort of a fun adventure, you know, And I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. Maybe Obi Wan was a little bit like that, too, at times.

And then the third story, which I, you know, increasingly find is the most interesting, but I feel like they have maybe shied away from a little bit more is the how do you. How do you keep the faith without becoming fooled Kind of story. I would say that the. The prequel trilogy really sort of especially highlighted that.

Right. In Anakin's story, the Acolyte, I think, was. Was a story that was looking more in that direction. The Last Jedi was looking more in that direction.

And so that, you know, since we've.

We're not getting more of the acolytes, since they've declined to follow up on a lot of the things that I was interested in in Last Jedi, it feels like that's. That's a direction that they're not entirely interested in going.

Although the Mandalorian, you know, with his, you know, progressivism versus conservatism and all that, does have some. Some elements of that as well. But, yeah, any. Any reactions to those story archetypes in Star wars and whether I miss them or.

Yeah, I like.

I like that those three categories are really, I think, strong and I think part of what the third, a little bit like in terms of the mysticism, the religion, the Force, the lore of the Jedi and the choices you make and whether you want to be a part of the light or dark side of the Force, I think are. That is a way to go.

So I think for me, in terms of the future of the Star wars, what I would like to see is I would love that origin story of the Force and how you tap into it and the emergence of the light and the dark side thousands of years ago before everything.

And I think you could create a cool movie that was still lean into kind of that lore and mysticism of the Star wars universe and even lean into kind of the first category talking about, like, rebelling against authoritarianism, that could be a part of that story, too, and kind of the way off in the past.

This emergence of the light and dark side of the Force and people discovering what that means and how to be a part of it and wield it or abuse it, I think is a way to go. And then there's the other category of going way off into the future. Thousands of years in the future and seeing some things differently so that.

That way you could avoid, you know, the legacy characters and. And people being upset of why. Why'd you treat my favorite character that way? Kind of thing, which I've been, you know, a part of that. That.

That chorus as well. But. But I think those are some things that I'd love to see because it's just such low.

I. I get it that, you know, is Star wars, you have good versus evil, rebels against the authoritarianism, fascism. But. But there's that under it. I just love. I love Jedi. I love the Force. I love seeing what that means as kind of a clergy myself. The bad and.

And good and Breaking Bad of. Of Star wars clergy, Jedi. And whether it's the past or future, I think that's the category. Would that. Would that fall under two?

Like your third category, you think, Andy? Or it's like a different fourth one, do you think?

Yeah, I mean, these are arbitrary to some extent. Yeah, I would probably put that in my third category.

I think that exploring what it means to be a faithful Jedi versus not a faithful Jedi or what other paths might even be out there besides Jedi and Sith and so forth, I would broadly lump into that category. But I can see where, if you push it, you can go in a lot of directions.

It might get you into a different structure of story or a different theme as well.

Well, yeah, I think if we're sticking to the films and TV shows, I think your categories are perfectly fine in that regard. When we go beyond that, there's way more out there and, you know, fewer people have seen it, so it's not their fault, but. Or read these stuff.

Like, fewer people have played some of the video games, have read some of the books. Like we. We have four and what that means in the galaxy, you know, with.

We got stuff like Red Harvest where we get kind of a zombie like kind of scenario and the Fate of the Jedi stuff. We got, you know, some Eldritch abomination kind of appearing to an extent there.

Then when it comes to earlier stuff too, we have, like, Tales of the Jedi and of course, we have Timothy Zahn's Outbound Flight with, like, the idea of exploring what does it mean to be in a universe in a galaxy where we don't understand everything around us.

That kind of would be an adventure to an extent, but more the idea of exploring and figuring out who we are and everything there, of course, the Knightsfield Republic games, it's like, what does it mean to follow the dogma of the Jedi and the Sith. What does it mean to be a member of the Republic Court of Sith? The new Sith wars stuff goes into that too. Darth Bane and all that.

Trying to think of what else as far as branching out from that. I mean, there's plenty more.

Like as a lover of legends, which unfortunately has to be called legends now, there's a hundred different things you could read. We've got crime stuff too, and people serving Empire not really caring about the Rebellion.

And on like a Crimson Empire kind of series, we've got Kyle Katarn becoming ex. Imperial, becomes this rogue agent who becomes a member of the Rebellion, becomes a Jedi. And different stories told in those video game series.

Like, I think we're limited with what we have now because there are fewer risks being made. And I think the acolyte was a risk that they made, but it was a poor risk and that they let the wrong people take the risk.

And I know you're a little bit better on it than I was, but I see it as like an ultimate failure of how to actually tell a story and have us care about who's invol.

I think the. The up. Breakdown of all those of the themes is. Is. Is a perfect description and a breakdown and, And a. And a.

A. I think that's a good way for the franchise to. To move forward and to have its. And find its. Find its pockets and. And to. To. To continue what you were saying there, Christian.

They need to take the risks because then. Then I don't know, I won't get bored of Star wars, but I think it needs to take risk and, And I think it's gotta change like the, The.

The comparison that I'm. That I'm thinking now because I've been. I've been kind of. Of reading up on the like in between Christ's resurrection and kind of. And kind of.

And kind of the time where Paul takes it and takes the religion and kind of like kind of kind of focuses more on the gentiles and stuff like that. We are in that transition phase, I think, of kind of Star wars and it's starting to become a pluralistic kind of.

Genre. Right?

Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, like that. That it's gonna have its own kind of genres within the genre of Star wars and, and. And. And with that it takes risks and stuff like that.

So I love the. The.

The.

The. I, I don't think the fragmentation is a bug. I think it's a feature that. I think that.

Now the only problem is, is that I hope that it makes money, you know, like so yeah, yeah.

When I think of Star Wars, I think of the question is like, how do I exist in a violent and war torn universe? Right. So you had different ways.

You have a small band of rebels, you have the people who join, you know, the authoritarianism, you have a religious aspect, you have like the bounty hunters are just trying to hustle and make some money in the universe. You know, you have the common person on the ground, like andor who are like, yeah, I'm just trying to make a living and I'm caught between the two.

And then you have skeleton crew, like, like, how do I exist in a violent war torn universe that is like a Star wars, you know, in this war torn universe. And so there's different ways to do this.

You have religion, you have crime, you have underground stuff, you have the rebels, you have military kind of thing. So all those kind of swirl around this question when I think about Star wars, like, how do these people exist and what, what do they do?

What are the decisions they make in that universe and, and what do they care about?

And so any kind of like apocalyptic, you know, genre where the zombies, aliens, robots, whatever, what it's revealed in that is, is people, what they care about. So yeah, do you care about freedom? Do you care about just like making your credits?

Do you care about like, you know, I'm just like a Han Solo who then encounters some pretty cool people and in the forest and be like, maybe, maybe I shouldn't be a scoundrel. Maybe I should do something better with my life. So those kind of things swirl around struggle.

So I think it's in this universe if they're still kind of reflecting on that question that George Lucas, yeah, he was a fan of, you know, Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon and the, and the serials and those kind of swashbuckling space adventures. But, but he still had like a foundation of like good versus evil.

And he put in some mysticism, religion sprinkled that in along with, yeah, how do you exist in a violent world and universe? And as coming out of World War II and the Vietnam War, he was wrestling with those questions. And so I think we're in that setting too in our world.

And I think aliens and robots and AI is a big part of how we relate to the other. And I think that Grant that Mandalorian Grogu. I think, you know, there wasn't there.

I've heard some, some talk around things that I follow about there. There's not enough humans, there's so many aliens.

You only, you don't see very, a lot of human faces, you know, and so you're like, well, you know, yes, a world filled with aliens and how do you relate to the other person or alien and who's on, who's on your team? I think those are good questions to ask how you relate to the other in the midst of that.

And I think Star wars should always be asking and teasing out some of those bigger questions along with having fun and big special effects and space battles and laser swords and please, more lasers. I can't believe we didn't have a lightsaber. Amanda and Grogu. But we did see the Force. We did see the Force used. I just, we didn't see one lightsaber.

Give that kid a lightsaber.

Yeah, no. So the other day I was watching a podcast with Damon Lindelof and he talked at one point about getting fired from the stars.

I think it was the Ray movie he was attacking.

I completely forgot he was doing it.

Yeah. Which was.

Has multiple writers gone through it and he his pitch, which they loved at first and then he was still firefront, but he pitched it as you know, they said like, what do you want from a Star wars movie set post sequel trilogy? And he said, I want to tell the Protestant Reformation in the Star wars universe. And I'm like, that sounds awesome. Let's make that.

And I think that's very much like in terms of a more risk, more forward momentum type of Star wars story. That's the kind of thing I want to see.

And in terms of how Star wars where it can go from here, I very much think it can be a fusion of nostalgia and forward momentum. So Andy, I think that was a really great summary of like the different archetypes that we see from the movies and shows.

And Christian, like you said, I think they could be expanded on more through the books and the comics and TV shows. Like right off the bat, I, I, they're just sitting on this and I can't believe this. They haven't made it is a what if animated series in Star Wars.

Why they, I mean there's no reason why they should not make that because it's completely risk averse.

Like, I mean you're, it's not canon, but that would be, I mean talk about how many subscribers they could get to Disney plus with that if they had a what if Luke went to the dark side? What if with Anakin didn't. What if, you know, Qui Gon survived all these things. I mean, yes, exactly 100%.

What was it called? Star Wars Infinities. Remember that? Yeah, yeah, they should totally do that.

So there's all these ideas. Like, I, I think the beauty of Star wars is that it is this vast universe and of course we love seeing our favorite heroes fight the Empire.

But like we've said, some of our favorite stories are set thousands of years in the past. Or I would, you know, again, I would love to see story set post sequel trilogy.

People know kind of my thoughts on the sequel trilogy and that I am a fan of Last Jedi. I can't stand Rise of Skywalker. The beauty of, I think even the beauty of the sequel trilogy is that we're still talking about it to this day.

It elicits a strong reaction and I think they need to be willing to do that more, is take risks and say, you know, they aren't going to appeal to everyone.

But, you know, make stories like that while also making stories that are very risk averse, like Mandalorian and Grogu that are just fun, you know, popcorn entertainment. You can have both. And that's the, the vastness of Star wars allows you to tell a wide range of stories.

And, and I'll just say one more thing that like Rebels is one of my favorite Star wars things of all time. Because, Andy, I think it kind of encompasses all three of those archetypes. It's very much about a ragtag group of rebels fighting the Empire.

It is also has, you know, many episodes that are episodic, fun, go on an adventure.

And it also expands the lore of Star wars in a phenomenal way, introducing the world between worlds and the Bendu and, you know, all these concepts that make it rich and fascinating. So these are things they can do going forward. Like they, you know, they can have fun, safe adventures.

And I'll say again what I said in the previous recording, that studios need to respect the audiences and recognize that the audience members have more intelligence than they think. And you know, you, we can accept that they could release one movie set in the era of Lucan and Leia.

They can do another one set thousands of years in the past or thousands of years in the future and people will go along with that.

How do we guys feel on, on, on Dave Filoni? How do we, how do you guys like Dave Filoni? Because he's the one in charge now, so he is going to be, he's making the decisions now.

I, I think he understands Star Wars. He understands Lucas's vision and he definitely has understanding of the lore and where it's been.

I, I do think he may be a little attached to the characters he created in the cartoon era. I wish he, he had expand or think through. But we're just at the beginning of it. Like it's very beginning.

But I do think the things that have come out, the beginning is like cool.

These characters that I help create, whether it's Ahsoka or you know, even Mandala and Grogu leaned into some of the Clone wars cartoon aspect animated series. And so I'm, I'm wondering if they can't branch out to, to more things and, and hopefully they will.

You know, I'd be very curious to see what Starfighter is about and what that is in a couple years. You know, we get. Is it one year or two years? When is that year?

I think all right, it's next year. Next year. That's the only other movie currently in development. That one I'm stoked for because it is the first film post sequel trilogy.

You know, it got greenlight everything. Shawn Levy directing. Tom Cruise directed a lightsaber fight in it there, you know, so that one I think is a good indicator.

If that does well, I hope that that will send them a signal of like, hey, you can do things like this where it's all new characters. You know, it's, it's maybe in a non familiar time. I mean it's, it's not confirmed whether we'll get. Yeah.

Like, like any legacy characters there, but it's still, it's set in a time where we don't know what's going to happen because we haven't seen that yet. It's not set in previous eras.

Yeah.

And that is, that is not just like the unknown territory for the plot of the Star wars, but it's unknown territory in say the genre of film. Because I'm assuming that's going to be a, a Ryan Gosling film through and through. Like he's like he's going to own that.

Yeah.

And that's going to be the first time that, that, that we see that kind of like Tom Cruise is the movie kind of thing from Star Wars. So I hope it gets swallowed. Okay.

Because well, after seeing him in Project Hail Mary, like I'm a believer. Dude, let him. Yeah, let him.

I'm ready for that.

Let on the Filoni side.

And if we're going to take one lesson from Project Hail Mary of putting more Ryan Gosling in your space movie, let's take the other lesson from Project Hail Mary. George Lucas was right More microbiology in your space movie. Let's talk more about the midichlorians.

I mentioned the Once We Were Spaceman podcast on a previous episode as a recommendation. I just listened to the Seth Green episode.

Seth Green talks about how he had a conversation with George Lucas about midichlorians and he went into skeptic and came out a believer. So if Seth Green can be convinced that there's something to do there, then I think that the rest of us could be convinced too. So that's my little.

I'll look for the episode. That's good. Yeah, Christian, go for it, buddy.

Evan.

On the, on the Filoni side of things, I have mixed feelings that are ultimately positive in the end because I do believe he loves Star wars really well. I know training under the Master himself to become hand pointed successor makes perfect sense to me. I agree with Will.

He plays with his own toys a little too much and I get that because I'd play with my toys if I was in charge. But you know, I'd also want, you know, if I'm building this expansive universe, well, I can't do everything.

So let other people have fun and get things done. And yeah, I'm fine with there being a film after the sequel trilogy. Is it still tainted? Absolutely.

But they could still make it work go in the past, like maybe spoiling an answer for a bonus question. That's where I'd like to see, you know, certain film get made in many regards there.

Like I think Filoni, like I said, he cares about Star wars really well. He engages with the fans really well. Is he a little self indulgent, putting himself there? Well, no, because I do the exact same thing.

Once again, it's my, my playbox, my rules, my ball. If you don't want to play well, I'm going to take my ball and go home. Like it's fine.

Yep, I kind of like I also similar thoughts. I mean I know Filoni. I mean he's a great storyteller. He loves Star Wars.

I hope he kind of takes a, a little bit of a James Gunn approach to Star wars where like definitely has his toys, he loves to play with and can, you know, fully take charge of projects while also letting other creators roam free and tell their own stories. Because when I look at the DC lineup this year, Supergirl, Lanterns and Clayface, all three of those look very different from each other.

Yes.

And, and that excites me because I want to see different genres and different stories explored within the same universe.

Good poll, Andy. I'm curious, I guess, as our bonus question, but, like, the future of Star wars, where do you want to see it go?

Like, where's where, you know, where we're similar age and all those things. Like, in terms of fandoms, I'm really curious, where do you want to see it go next?

Yeah, I mean, we've talked about some of these things, but to me, the distinctive thing about Star wars is the Jedi, not just the lightsabers, although laser swords are objectively cool, but just all of that.

And I appreciate that they have their roots in samurai films and other antecedents, that they are not entirely sui generous and they completely disconnected from other kinds of stories. But that's the most distinctive element of the Star wars films. For me. That's what kind of brings me back.

And so something like the Acolyte, with its flaws and its risks that maybe didn't pan out because it's so heavily focused on the Jedi is going to be more appealing to me than or more intriguing to me than something like the Mandalorian and Grogu, which is kind of fun, but forgettable or not engaging with the themes that most interest me. And that's fine.

But, yeah, so anything that kind of goes into the history of the Jedi Order or the future of the Jedi Order is the future of the Jedi Order, not Jedi. Right. The tease at the end of the Last Jedi of, does it need to become something new? Does there need to be Protestant Reformation?

I didn't listen to that podcast, but I did read about that, and I was similarly intrigued by what would have happened there.

I think sometimes Damon Lindelof, you know, oversells things or has a way of describing what he's doing that is different from what actually comes out. So who knows how that would have turned out?

He sells it perfectly.

Yeah. But, you know, the premise intrigued me. Yeah.

You know, as somebody who, you know, is like Evan, kind of touched on regularly kind of wrestling with how do I connect faith and philosophy and metaphysics to the real world and to the tangible world and the physical world? How do we make all those things come together?

And reevaluating things and questioning assumptions and questioning how do you stay faithful to tradition without becoming. To attach to it? How do you let go of attachments, to coin a phrase? I think those are all very intriguing questions.

And so, yeah, I'd be open to any of that.

My biggest disappointment, apart from the Jedi, my biggest disappointment with Star wars is I think we do need, in the real world, we need to answer the Question of what comes after the Rebellion.

How do you actually build a system that is less susceptible to corruption, less susceptible to authoritarianism and more inclusive, more pluralistic, more ecumenical.

And the sequel trilogy was perfectly set up to address those themes and questions and topics and really like I said, kind of punching on it in favor of. But we'd like to do the Rebellion mode. We know what that looks like. Like we know how to tell that story.

And maybe the Star wars universe just isn't set up to tell that story. Maybe two hour movies are not set up well to tell that kind of story.

Have we seen that story somewhere else? Because what's a good example of that?

Yeah, I mean, maybe that's not good storytelling. Because it's not.

That's what I'm thinking too.

It's like so much of what makes for a good story is. And then something went wrong and so like the building things, you know, so maybe there's a. There's a case we made for that.

But I think they were kind of onto something with the fact that Kylo Ren was so obsessed with Darth Vader and that kind of mirrors the kind of the political climate that we see now and these crazy stuff that I see in my travels online and the worshiping of a past governments that really should not be worshiped. And I think they were onto something there, but they did not flesh it out.

We don't know why does he idolize so much? Give me a reason for that. Maybe I'll go along with the story with you.

There's a recent comic book series about Kylo Ren that actually does dig into that a little bit more. So I'll mention.

I wish I had the more specific name of it, but it's something like the legacy of Darth Vader, the Legacy of Kylo Ren or something like that.

I saw some covers about it.

It's a Kylo Ren focus story and I think it might either be getting continuation or a follow up miniseries or something I think I saw recently announced. So yeah, if you're looking for that story specifically, okay, cool. Check out the Star wars comics.

That's its own problem. I don't mind fleshing things out in a film, but like you should explain to me in a film.

You don't have to like tell me, tell me, but like show me why he is the way he is. You know, that's part of your job to help me understand the character you want me to care about.

And yeah, Star wars, the great thing about it is there's so many Things in a film, like you can expand. There's literally an entire book about the people in the Mos Eisley Cantina and all they are is background in the original movie. That's fine.

Fleshing out a world that way. But like a main character, you can't tell me why he is the way he is. That's not on me for being upset.

Yeah, no, that's fair. But I do, you know, the other, the other thought that I had about the future of Star wars is more about the future of Star wars fandom.

I think the biggest challenge for us as fans, and I'll include myself in this, is letting go of the attachment to being a completist, to following the whole story and to assume that every Star wars story is for me.

Exactly.

I think when you're going to have this many things, you're going to have so many TV shows and so many comics and novels and video games and probably media that I don't even know exists. Right. They're probably telling stories in, you know, Fortnite. Exactly. Yes. There you go. Or you know, what, what have you.

They, you know, to come to it all as well, you know, to be successful, it has to be, for me, I think is. Is an understandable mindset when you're so invested in a thing.

But just because it has the name Star wars on it doesn't necessarily mean it's the same Star wars as everything else. It's okay for something to be for other Star wars fans because there's probably going to be a thing that's for you too.

And.

Yeah, I don't know what, I don't know how to make that happen exactly.

But it's a reminder to myself, if nothing else, that when there's going to be so much stuff and there's going to be stuff that happens after I'm gone and so forth. Right. That it's okay to sit one out. It's okay to not have an opinion on something.

It's okay to be like that doesn't grab me, but I'll wait for the next one that has more of those Jedi or that has more of the fighter pilot sequences or that has more of the Hutt wrestling, whatever it is that you're excited about in Star Wars Hutt play.

Yeah, those are wise words, Andy. I really appreciate that. Yeah, that's good, good geek pastoral care there, buddy. Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, I, I come across that mindset a lot on these socials and even on the, on, on the threads account for the show. I get Called an idiot. Or I want the franchise to die because I like the deco light and how it's more of a. That is not their Star Wars.

And it just, I just wish that, that, that, that I just wish that that section of fandom wasn't so loud about it because the, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. You know, it's like, ah, I want more acolyte. But we won't get it because they review bombed it. And yeah, it's that. Yeah, sorry. It drives me crazy.

In fairness, we may also not get more of it because it was one of the most expensive television shows per minute to make.

I don't know what the heck that was about.

Yeah.

What was up with that?

So. But yes, it's nevertheless disappointing to those of us who would have liked to see more of it.

And the fandom side is because when I think of fandom, I think of Star wars fandom. Like we created. Well, not we, because I wasn't a OG fan. Sorry, guys.

But a Star wars and the original trilogy fans, they were the ones that created kind of the nerd culture, thinking culture. And, and, and, and I totally respect that. But once we kind of deviate from that, it should be okay. It should be fine.

There's the other side of that too, where if you have negative feelings towards stuff, then you automatically get associated with, with the same people who are saying the horrendous things like there. You automatically become, oh, that's misogynist. You become, you know, you, you hate black people. Whatever.

Yeah, like, no, I want Finn and Ray to be actual characters instead of caricatures. Like, I, I want them. I want better for you. I don't want worse. I don't want to hate these things, you know, I want to enjoy what I'm watching. Yeah.

And on the other side of thing you mentioned earlier, like, things that aren't for you, like the, I think I've said it before voices, the young Jedi adventures or whatever on Disney that they're doing for the little kids. Like, you know what? I' going to review that show. I'm never even going to watch it because I'm not three in the same way.

I don't watch, you know, Spidey and his amazing friends. Unless, you know, one of the kids my mom watches is watching it. Like, it's not for me.

It is for that generation to get introduced to the concept of what these things are. So just understand things in context. And just because someone hates something doesn't automatically mean they're like this other person.

Who also hates it.

Oh, yeah.

The.

The one thing that they fall out from. The last Jedi that I praise is the word a butthurt. I'm glad that. That it gave us that term because.

Because I was told I was butt hurt left and right about everything. I was like, what does that even mean? And then I figured it out. I'm like, oh, okay.

Your.

Your hut hurt.

With two T's.

Cool.

That's been fun, guys. That's it. That's good.

All right, well, in the interest of pastoral care to ourselves, maybe we should start to wrap it up, given the hour in real time that this is. And what better way to bring a Star wars conversation to a screeching halt than to bring up Star Trek?

And remember that while the original trilogy fans were definitely a big part of the origin of nerd culture, it was a decade earlier.

Also, the fans of Star Trek, especially the housewives who were writing fanfic and so forth, that organized some of the earliest conventions that also paved the way for a lot of the fandom culture and the nerd culture that we have now.

My bad.

No, no, no, no. You are not wrong.

But in the interest of being inclusive and ecumenical and again, also bring this Star wars conversation through a screeching halt, let's bring up Star Trek. So briefly, what do people want to recommend to our listeners?

Something Star wars related, something not Star wars related that you think folks should check out. And let's start with Kevin. We haven't heard from you in a minute. Go ahead.

Yeah, so there's this YouTube channel that I discovered a few years ago, YouTuber named Natalie Gold. And. And she does, like. Like, she grew up not having seen, like, some of the biggest movies and shows of all time.

And so she does these reaction videos where she watches, like, she started out, like, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Marvel movies, stuff like that, and now she's doing more current stuff.

But what I love about it is you see this, like, unfiltered reaction of someone discovering the joy of these things that we've just grown up on, and that's what they kind of cause us to be. Be desensitized in a way. And I love seeing, like, even for the.

Some of the big moments she knew about, like watching Empire for the first time or Lord of the Rings. It's fascinating. So I love her channel.

That's a really fun fandom, one that kind of counteracts the more toxic fandom that we were just talking about.

Awesome. Thanks.

Christian, do you have something to recommend to the folks. Yeah.

If you would like to have a story about a hut dark Jedi as a villain who uses a purple lightsaber two years before Mace Windu, you can read the okay. Story of Planet of Twilight in the old eu.

Nice.

Awesome. And Evan, how about you?

We mentioned it before but the Star wars infinities line of those comics, if you want to see a white Darth Vader a go find pretty sick, pretty cool. It does Vader the white.

Oh like Gandalf. Fun.

I'm.

I'm gonna recommend listening to kids giggle that I tell you one of the favorite part of Mandalor and Grogu is when all those like bombs were set on the at at and like Grogu is like tapping on his helmet like ding ding ding ding ding. Why are we leaving?

And the in the like 5 year old next like like 44 seats down from me giggling his butt off at like every time man was beating on that it made me just so happy. I was like all right, there we go. That was about so yeah, the, the react.

The YouTube videos of the kids reacting to whether it's Star wars or listen to Led Zeppelin the first time or hearing you know, Nirvana is really, is really fun. So there you go kids. Kids having a good time time reaction videos giggling. That's my recommendation.

Awesome.

And if you don't have a kid available to listen to giggle, perhaps your inner child will giggle at the Lego Batman Legacy of the Dark Knight game that came out recently.

Oh, I heard about that.

Lego Star wars kind of launched the whole genre of these co op Lego video games and they're, they're silly, fun and this one is the most recent one after kind of a pretty long hiatus of these particular kinds of Lego games. So if that's your jam, give that a try. And also the, the comic that I was talking about I looked up is called Star the Legacy of Vader is the actual.

If you're looking for that.

Nice.

So thanks folks. And while we're recommending things, maybe you can recommend to other folks that they check out this podcast.

Give us a rating, a review wherever you can do that. Look for the link in the show notes to our site where you can become a member. You can support us financially like Justin Vaughn.

Thank you again to him and to all of our financial supporters. And as a member you can get bonus content like the answer to the question that we are going to cover for this episode.

Which of the many, many, many announced but yet unmade Star wars movies post Disney purchase announcements would we like to seek it made.

So we're going to come back and talk about that in just a minute, but right now we'll say goodbye and thank you for hanging with us for another episode of Systematic Ecology. And remember, if you're going to geek, do it systematically.