Jill Elizabeth, Kevin Schaeffer, Alex Matthews, and Andy Walsh dive into the latest buzz in pop culture, focusing on the much-anticipated Wicked Part 2 and the intriguing Knives Out series. Right off the bat, they tackle the emotional rollercoaster that is Wicked, sharing their thoughts on how the film adaptation measures up against the beloved musical. They explore the intricate themes of friendship, morality, and the complex narrative of Elphaba and Glinda, while also reflecting on the impact of the story in today’s society. Then, they shift gears to Knives Out, offering insights into its unique storytelling style and character development, while touching on the important themes of faith and morality woven throughout the film. With a blend of thoughtful commentary and light-hearted banter, the crew encourages listeners to engage with these cinematic gems and consider the deeper messages they present in a world of ever-evolving media.

Takeaways:

1. The discussion highlighted the tragic passing of Rob Reiner, emphasizing his impact on the film industry and personal anecdotes from the hosts about their experiences with his work.
2. The hosts explored the musical elements in Wicked Part 2, noting the challenges of adapting a beloved stage production into film while maintaining its essence.
3. The conversation transitioned to Knives Out, where the hosts debated its narrative structure and character arcs, particularly how it differed from the first two films in the franchise.
4. They discussed the cultural implications of the recent Netflix acquisition attempts, raising concerns about the potential impact on independent cinema and artistic freedom.
5. The episode emphasized the exploration of faith in popular media, particularly how the portrayal of religious themes can resonate with audiences in contemporary storytelling.
6. The hosts encouraged viewers to engage with live theater experiences and support independent filmmakers, highlighting the importance of preserving diverse artistic expressions in the current media landscape.

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Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Foreign. Welcome. This is systematic ecology. We are the priest of the geeks and we are here for another what's News episode.

We have an absolutely jam packed episode tonight. So we have so many topics to cover. A lot happening in the geek world right now and in just the world in general.

So I am here, I am one of your hosts, Kevin Schaefer, and I am here with three of my geekologist. We're going to have a packed discussion tonight. So Andy Walsh, Dylan Elizabeth, Alex Matthews, how are y' all tonight?

Doing great, thanks.

I'm good.

Awesome. I'm really excited for this one. I know we've got. Oh, this will be great. So we've got, as you can see from that slide there, some of the big.

This is a pretty movie centric episode. There's a lot of big movies we're going to be covering, sharing our thoughts on. And actually before we get to the.

Any of the, well, kind of planned topics tonight, so we had a full outline and then this morning we got the horrible news that the great actor, director Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle were tragically stabbed to death in their home. And this, you know, took not only the geek world, but just world in general. I mean, what a legendary figure.

So we wanted to start tonight's episode a little differently before we get into Lightning Round and the main topics and just remember Rob Reiner. But Jill, I know you and I were talking a little bit before we started recording, so I know you have a cool story here.

I wanted to share some of mine too. And.

But yeah, yeah, I just, first of all, it's just so sad and so tragic and like we had said before the show, I certainly didn't think it was going to have a political aspect to it. Saying goodbye to this man and his great body of work. And unfortunately that's there as well.

I was probably nine months, like gonna give birth at any moment and looking to do anything to just take my mind off of this, like, getting ready to give birth thing. And a friend of mine invited me to a movie and there was gonna be a special Q and A with the director afterwards. And it was this film and so it goes.

And, and he said at the time that was going to be his last great love story that he was going to write. It was such a cute movie. And then he said something in the Q&A after that has just stuck in my mind, and I repeat it all the time.

So it's been 11 years, and I probably say it four or five times a year. In fact, I have a chalkboard downstairs in my kitchen where I write an inspirational quote for my kids, like, every couple months.

And it's been up there since before Thanksgiving. And he said, this is the overarching theme of all of my work, is that the ends never justify the means, because in the end, it's all just means.

Wow. Oh, that's incredible.

So good, right?

That's incredible. And so you were actually like, was it a Q and A where he was there in person, or was it a live stream? That's amazing.

Yeah, he was in Scottsdale, like, at the Fashion Square. I have no idea why he was here. It wasn't like the grand opening of the movie, but. Amazing.

That's incredible. Alex, do you have, like, even just from. These are just a few of his films we have on the slide here, but are there any, like. I mean, I know so many.

I was. I'll talk about Princess Bride in a sec, but are there any of these movies or. Or the million shows he was into that are some of your favorites?

Oh, I'm a huge fan of Princess Bride, one of my favorites.

Yeah.

Movie of all time, actually.

Yeah.

It's so good.

It's. It's just the best. My story there is that a few months ago, I got to similar to what Joe, what you did.

It was a screening and a live Q A with Carrie Elwes right after, and it was amazing. And I mean, I had been a fan of the movie for years.

I went with my sister, and she had seen the movie, like, probably like a long time ago, but didn't remember it as well. And so it was kind of like, experience it for the first time for her.

And we just had a blast with, like, her, a couple of my best friends, and, oh, it was just amazing. And. And, like, Gary Ellis shared stories about the cast and crew and of course, Rob Reiner. It was. Yeah, it was that.

And then I also got to see Stand By Me at the Alamo Drafthouse earlier this year. Seeing that on the big screen was great. And I did meet Will Wheaton at Galaxycon, um, last year.

And if you really want to cry, you can read the blog post he just posted about Rob. It was. Yeah. But, Andy, do you have. Do you have a favorite Rob Reiner movie or, like, anecdote?

I mean, you know, the Princess Bride is very popular in this house. With my wife, my kids and myself, it's probably one of the movies I've seen the most.

But I also want to give a shout out to this is Spinal Tap and the recent sequel, which was also well done. You know, I still remain flabbergasted that it's a movie with both a fart joke and a Karlhein Stockhausen joke in this, in the same film.

You know, just the, the, the cleverness, the brilliance of not just the mockumentary format, but the way that it just so subtly like throws away all of its jokes, that it's not, it's not trying to hit you over the head with things, it's just kind of, you know, they're, they're just three minutes later you go, oh, wait a minute. They just. That something happened that was very funny or somebody said something, it's very funny. But it didn't register at the time.

And you know, the whole, the whole movie just goes on like that.

And you know, not single handedly, but certainly helped to launch, you know, the subsequent Christopher Guest mockumentary films and you know, the whole slew.

You know, the mockumentary format continues to be a great sitcom format with the Office and Modern Family and so many other shows that have followed in that mold. So, you know, and obviously he's not the only one responsible for that.

But it's hard to imagine that those things would have come about the way that they did without the Spinal Tap.

Yeah, it just had such a major impact that really inspired a lot of the creators that would follow in the footsteps and make mock menaries of their own. And that was, I think, the most fascinating thing. I, I know I could go on and on about right now. I realize we have a lot to cover tonight, but.

And we'll probably, I think we'll do episodes that are solely focused on maybe some of his movies or maybe a Princess Bride 1. I think that would be great. But, but the fascinating thing about his body of work is how diverse the stories are.

I mean, he went from Final Tap to Stand By Me, a coming of age movie, to Princess Pride, which is like meta fantasy and satire, to When Harry M. Classic romcom, Misery, Classic thriller, A Few Good Men, classic courtroom drama. He really had, he had similar themes, I think, across his work, but he could really diversify genres and types of stories he told.

So that's what always really fascinated me and challenged me as a storyteller as well. So, yeah, this was just, it was not fun news to wake up to this morning.

So we would be Remiss if we did not talk about this some, but I realize we need to move on but we will definitely do some more episodes about the legacy. Also, a quick shout out is his role on New Girl is one of my absolute favorites too as Jess's dad there.

And then Jamie Lee Curtis is the mom, one of my all time favorites.

So good.

Oh, it's that, that episode, the parent trap one when Jess tries to get them back together. Thanksgiving. Yeah, maybe we'll do it all, Jill. You know I can do an episode on just that episode. It would be great. Yeah, awesome. Well, let's move on.

So first off, again, thank you so much for everyone tuning in right now. And this is our lightning round where before we get into the main topics, we will go around share some of the things just we've been keeping out on.

So Jill, we'll start with what are.

Some things you've been checking out The TV show. Nobody wants this.

I love that show.

Yeah, yeah, you just sort of binged it. And then of course Stranger Things Season 5 went through that in like two days. So good.

Oh, I'm a massive Stranger Things fan. Me, Will and Laura did an episode on the first volume of season five recently. So we'll be making more.

So we'll have to bring you on the next one because we're going to be making multiple throughout.

Yeah, I just can't wait to see where it goes. Like, I'm really into this season.

I've got my Christmas Day plan. So. Yeah, I mean, yeah, absolutely. Alex, what about you? What are your lightning round picks?

Well, I was going to say Stranger Things and the last season of, of my Hero Academia, but I haven't finished either of those yet. So I've been super busy.

But like, how long is the. Sure. How long is the MYO Hero Academia season? Because like I matter. That show has been going on for so long. But like how long is each season?

Yeah, I don't, I don't remember. I feel like each season has different number of episodes.

Yeah.

Depending on the art.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that like, did you make it like for Stranger Things?

Did you make it through like half of the new episodes or like just the beginning?

I'm still like at the beginning. It's been a minute since I turned off my tv.

Oh, I hear you. It's a crazy busy time of the year. But like you're in for a treat though.

I think you will enjoy like there are some big surprises that right up to the last minute I won't spoil anything, but big reveals coming. And I. I look forward to hearing your thoughts there.

Oh, I do have thoughts on the Demon Slayer movie. I did see that. So that could be my life.

Oh, nice. Nice.

Yes.

Right on there.

There we go.

I like that one is like another, like, I mean, huge anime sensation that I know has gotten in theater. So. Yeah, that's a good one. But, yeah. Andy, what about you?

I'm gonna be a man out of time and. And go back to the Running man from. From last episode.

Since I finally got a chance to see it, you and I were talking about the Edgar rightness of it all. I think I agree with you that there is certainly touches of his style there, but I also appreciate that.

I think in addition to the way that he uses the camera and the way that he edits his things, something that stands out about his work, especially his most recent couple of films, is the way that he choreographs people and everything else in front of the camera. Right.

Whether it's the synchronizing things to music in Baby Driver or the dance sequence and the hallway sequence in last night in SoHo, or even just little things like the Texas switch jumping out the window gag in Scott Pilgrim, he's always kind of pushing the envelope of what you can do, what you can capture in camera.

And maybe it was just because they didn't market them this time around, but I don't remember seeing anything in the film that made me go, oh, I haven't seen something like that before. I don't know how they did that.

And that may have been why it didn't quite register as, you know, a quintessential Edgar Wright film or kind of the next big Edgar Wright film. It had a little bit more of an Edgar Light feeling this time around, but.

Oh, good.

Thank you. And still. But, you know, still. Still certainly well done. I mean, he's obviously knows what he's doing. Excellent. His craft.

And, you know, I did not know about Jill's story or quote coming into this, but certainly the question of the way that a sense of righteousness can be used to justify our choices, our actions is something that the film highlighted for me. I'm not sure how much it had to say versus that just sort of what it was depicting.

But it was definitely something that I was thinking about a lot during the film. And I think I'll touch on more when we come back to Death by Lightning. But, yeah, a lot to. A lot to think about in the film.

Whether or not the film was. Was answering those questions. It certainly raised a lot of issues for me around that. And yeah, since it's the Lightning round, I'll.

I'll finish there. I could say more about the film, but we'll wrap up there.

Oh, I know. I. You and I could both go on. Maybe we'll do an Edgar Wright episode.

I know I'm pitching a bunch of other episode ideas in this episode, but that we could easily do an episode on Edgar Wright's filmography. I would love to do that. But yes, I. My lightning round picks. Just quick hits, obviously. Stranger Things.

I'll be talking about that throughout the season. I also finished it. Welcome to Derry. I thought it was an excellent season finale. I touched on that a little bit in the last what's News episode.

And there are a lot of parallels between that series and Stranger Things both in terms of tone, in terms of a group of kids, you know, fighting in a monster. But I, you know, for a prequel series where that I wasn't really sure where they would go with it.

I thought it really stuck the landing and had a great first season. And then I've also been rewatching Young justice, one of my favorite DC animated shows of all time. That one never gets old.

And then reading different books in the DC Absolute universe. So did read the first volume of Absolute Wonder Woman and really enjoyed that. So yeah, a lot of nerd stuff going on. But.

But I know we have a lot to cover tonight.

So first off, if you're watching on YouTube tonight or you're listening to this later, if you want to support the show further and become a member, you can click on the link in the description and see all the information there. You can like subscribe, rate and review, tell your friends about us. It always helps out.

And I also want to give out a shout out to one of our Patreon subscribers. Really cool name, Gunner Burgum. I think I'm pronouncing that right. Thank you. You are awesome. Really appreciate the support and very cool name.

And so yeah, so thank you all for joining tonight. And again, we've got a lot to cover from our main topic, so let's get to it. So Andy, what is our first topic tonight? Here we go, the big one.

So this is one I've been itching to talk about. We would have talked about this sooner, but with the holidays and people schedules we have not got a chance to talk about Wicked for good yet.

And there are several hosts on the show who are not really musical fans. But then all of us here are super big ones. So I'm very excited, I guess. Okay.

So I've talked about Wicked, I think multiple times on the show before in my background. Jill, let's start with you.

What's kind of your background with either the stage musical, the movies, and then we'll get into kind of thoughts on the actual movie here.

Yeah, the stage musical is probably one of my favorite theater going experiences ever. I just love it, have loved it for many years. I've seen it twice, Once on Broadway and then once when it was touring here in Arizona.

And I was super excited for the films and like a little bit underwhelmed with the film. I. I think it's very, very hard to capture the magic of such a great musical.

Are you talking about like where you were like so far about this one specifically or both parts or.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely this one more than part one. But even part one, I just had such high expectations and then.

Interesting. Okay.

It was okay.

Yeah, like, interesting. I'll come back because like, I, like, I. Yeah, I've. I've heard that more on part two than part one, but that's. That's a really interesting takeaway.

But yeah, yeah. Alex, what about you? Because I know you're another. A big theater person, like, I am.

So, like, where does Wicked stand in terms of like musicals you really love or, you know, what's kind of your background with it?

Yeah, I remember seeing Wick, like the stage musical. I was like, how old was I? I think I was in middle school or high school when I saw it in person when it was touring in South Carolina.

And then I remember seeing the first movie at least two or three times. Loved it. Obsessed. I went to see for Good, like, I want to say like two weeks ago. And I'mma. I have to agree with Jill. I was a little underwhelmed.

I don't know, like, after the big number of Gravity from part one, like, what else is there? Like, the second movie is still good, but it's just like. I don't know. The first movie was very much top tier.

Music wise, it compares to the four grand. That's just my thoughts.

No, for sure. I mean, well, I. So I think it was like.

I'm glad they split up the musical into two movies because the first act of the musical that was Adapted for Part 1 really is a full story of its Elphaba's journey and her becoming this revolutionary. And you know, it sets up the political elements of Oz and it, you know, changes everything you think you know about wizard of Oz.

And then part two, act two in the musical is very much the aftermath of that. And then the direct overlap with wizard of Oz.

And so even big fans of the musical def, like I would say pretty unanimously agree that part that act two isn't as strong as act one. And you know, when they were going to split the movies there was sort of an inevitability in that sense.

Unless they were going to do major changes, which they changed some things. We'll get to that in a sec. But yeah, I mean I, I like, I think that's a fair consensus. Like I, I still really enjoyed for good.

But I think, you know, the first movie is top tier. I mean it like it just, it not only the musical numbers but the storytelling and the emphasis is on Elphaba's hero journey there is so well done.

And then I think with this one they tried to make it more Glinda's story, even more so than it is in the musical. And they expanded on stuff and they added songs and scenes to focus more on that narrative and I think overall it worked.

But there is still some pretty clunky storytelling, particularly in the third act. So we'll get to that in a minute. But that's a little bit of my thoughts. But Andy, what about you?

Because I know you have, your daughter is a theater student as well and so you like what work. I know we talked, I think a little bit about part one last year, but. But what were your kind of takeaways on for good?

Well, you know, I, I use this excuse a lot but my, my theater student daughter just got home from theater college yesterday and we would be in big trouble if we had seen this without her.

That's fair.

So, yeah, I, you know, I have actually never had the opportunity to or have never taken the opportunity, I guess to see the, the Wicked State Show I movie. And you know, I thought it was well done. You know, the two leads in particular, obviously very talented singers.

I am a huge fan of what Ariana Grande does on Saturday Night Live.

And so, you know, it was fun to see her taking on another comic or performance with, with comic elements and seeing, you know, what she could do with that. And you know, I, I am curious about the, the second half.

I've heard pretty much universal sentiment of what's been shared here of, you know, a step down from the first film, but mostly because the underlying material is kind of a step down from the first act in the musical and so it'll be hard not to watch it with that assessment. But, yeah, I'm sure it'll be a good time. You know, again, very talented people involved and, you know, an interesting visual experience as well.

Right.

There's a lot. There's a lot just going on there to look at.

Oh. From a technical standpoint. And both movies are phenomenal.

I think John M. Chu's direction and world building and the team of special effects supervisors and everyone he works with do an incredible job and.

But what, you know, one of the criticisms I saw, because when I went home after seeing the movie, like my sister in law, both and I really enjoyed it, we've.

I've seen also the musical on Broadway and then again here in the triangle when it came a couple of years ago, and my sister in law and I went to that and then we've seen both movies together and when I got home from seeing it, I was curious to see reactions from another people and a number of people, like some who were big fans of the musical, others who had never seen the musical and were coming into both movies fresh.

And one of the criticisms I saw was there were people who, because this storyline overlaps directly with the wizard of Oz, they wanted to see Elphaba fully transform into the Wicked Witch of the west and be that evil personification that we see in wizard of Oz. And they were like, this makes no sense. Like, how is she so evil in the original? But she doesn't really ever manifest in that way here.

And my response to that, and I'm curious, Jill, Alex, what you think of this is that when you. The whole point of Wicked is that when with wizard of Oz, you're viewing it through Dorothy's lens and you have a very black and white perspective.

So even the, the version of the Wicked Witch that Dorothy is seeing through her eyes isn't really what's happening. Like, yes, she does, you know, take her captive and everything, but she was never, you know, going to seriously harm her. And.

And she's ultimately working from behind the scenes of still launching this revolution against Wizard. But that was the thing, the reason you never really see them, you know, her become fully wicked.

And also a never, you know, big like, superhero, super villain fight between her and Glinda is because their love for each other still remain till the very end.

And that's the thing is you have to view it through that lens, that it changes everything through perspective in Wicked that you're, you're viewing it through a different lens than you are in wizard of Oz. But do you. Do y' all have thoughts on that or how they handled it. The movie.

I do. I think. I mean, it's nuanced. And that's the gift of Wicked, both musical and the movies, is that we get the perspective of the villain.

I think Andy and I did a whole episode on that.

Yes.

Villains and heroes and perspective of who really is the villain, who's the hero? Well, it probably depends on who's telling the story and what the backstory is.

And I see there's such a movement in pop culture, in our movies, in our comic books, of moving more towards that, that we get to see the villain origin stories and maybe have a little bit of compassion for what turns people into the bad guy.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

That's the part of Wicked I love.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. And that's why I, like, if you're just viewing it through the lens of what you saw in wizard of Oz. Yeah, the whole.

Exactly. Like you said, it's nuanced. It's changing the mindset and changing.

And so much of storytelling is dependent on the storyteller and who you see it through, which character's point of view.

But, Alex, do you have any thoughts on that or just, like, I'm curious, too, like, what you thought in general of how part two overlaps with wizard of Oz and some of the highs and lows there?

Yeah, I agree. Like, it was.

It's really interesting to see the backstory because it really does depend on your perspective and who's telling the story of who the bad guy is, because literally the whole time, Ela was trying to beat the hero, but her every good deed she did was twisted into some evil action. So she. At the end, she's like, sure, I'll just play the villain. Like, give me. Give me them shoes, Dorothy. Like, those are my sister.

But, like, she wanted the shoes only because that was, like, the last thing of her sister, not because she wanted to hurt Dorothy as a person. So it's just how you see it. And. And I thought it was really cool, like, how they overlapped with the wizard of Oz, too. That was really cool.

Really interesting that we never got to see Dorothy's face either. I. I peeped that. We never got to see. That was really cool. But, yeah, just that whole, like, overlap was just really cool to see. Yeah.

It's so much fun. And I, like, I was also really glad they didn't show Dorothy's face. I was. That was a smart move. Like, it just.

It added to the, like, the focus on Glendon Elphaba.

I would love to add just one thing about the movie. And, like, for not loving the movie, this scene was so powerful. And I thought they did such a good job of the wedding.

Yes, yes.

And it's like that contrast of the. Like, up on the upper floor is this beautiful wedding with the music and the flowers and the people are all gorgeous.

As Elphaba is down in the dungeon discovering what's underneath, which is just, you know, this incarceration of the animals. And it's, like, so sad and heartbreaking. And I just couldn't help but think of. Sorry, I'm gonna let the US off the hook for a minute here.

Like, the royal weddings in England.

Right, right.

That we see, and, like, what a spectacle it is and how the whole world tunes in. But people are not, like, asking, oh, all that beautiful jewelry. Like, think about how that got in the hands of the royal family. That's horrible.

And even the construction of the cathedrals is only because of exploitation and the extraction of wealth from the, you know, colonies that England has. And it's just.

I just thought that the director did a beautiful job of giving us that visual contrast of what we see is beautiful, but what's underneath it is rotten.

It was perfect.

And I can't remember if this line was in the musical or not, but the one that got me was when Elphaba says to Glenda, look at me not with your eyes, but with theirs. I was like, oh, that's. Yeah. I mean, like. Because he's trying to, like. I mean, I guess I. That's.

This one did a really job making you empathize with Glenda more, because she. Even though she's kind of like, you know.

Well, I think she wants everything to be idealistic, she's not going to go the full revolutionary route, but she's trying to fix things from kind of within and, like, work within the system. But Elphaba is trying to show her, like, look, you know, these people are never going to see me the way you do. And I was like, oh, that.

That was so well, well done there.

Also, Andy, this is a very big spoiler, but I do have to talk about the ending here, because as much as there were, you know, bumps along there, like, again in the third act, I was like, okay, this is getting a little. The pacing's a little. And. But I have to say, the last 15 minutes especially, I was in tears.

And I absolutely loved it because they did a really interesting story change from the musical. So, again, Andy, if you want to, like, a refrain, I can, like, nod when we're done. But this is a big spoiler. Spoiler alert.

But so in the musical and then with the movie, we of course learned that Elphaba and Fiyero are still alive at the very, very end. And they go off together. In the musical, however, the audience knows that, but Glinda never learns that they're still alive. And here they do it.

I mean, it's subtle, but it's the sort of like magic communication there where she does find out that they're still alive. And that was like, made me so happy because, you know, I mean, I, I, I do. I'm a sucker for. I still want happy endings for all of them.

And, and also getting to see that image of them going to the place beyond Oz.

It really, I talked about this in the, with the first movie last year, is when you're adapting a musical into film, you have to have a justification for why it is in that medium and what you can do from a cinematic lens that you can't do on stage. And they did some great things in both these movies with that.

And I think in this one, that's an example of where it was amazing what they got to see when you got to see the place beyond Oz.

And it's still, you know, I mean, it looks sort of like wasteland esque, but it also, I think, provides an element of, you know, maybe they can kind of create their own world here. It wasn't, you know, a full limbo or anything. It were it.

There is room for them to see what is beyond there and create their own world and find happiness. And then also when they gave the ultimate. This was like a MCU level Easter egg where they recreated the poster image in the final shot there.

I was like, leaping for joy there. So that was. But what, what did y' all think, though, about that change with the ending about Blenda knowing that they're alive at the end?

I loved it and I love that it comes through the book. I can't remember the name of it.

But that then the Life and times of the Grimory. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep.

Yeah, that.

Then you get an idea of like, oh, well, Glinda can actually carry out the mission because she's now she's gonna have the power from Elphaba to read the glimmery and to make change in Oz. I just thought it was really good.

Oh, it was beautiful there.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a good change.

But yeah, I mean, I like, overall, I mean, I think it's, you know, definitely not as good as the first one, but I still. I like. But I also kind of view both a. Similar to Lord of the Rings. I. I view both movies as sort of one movie broken into two parts.

And again, I'm glad that they did do that because I. I think it would have been rushed if they had tried to cram it all into one movie because there is so much story there and even in the musical it's. It's a lot of plot to get through. And I liked the pacing of especially the first movie and.

And here as well, you know, they like, again, it's clunkier than the first, but I was really glad that they gave each movie time to breathe and split it up the way they did. So I still, you know, thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm always a big Wicked fan. I would. I went in with my Alpha plus shirt. It was great. But yeah. So I.

Any other thoughts y' all have on this one or. Or just like. Or, you know, musical. Anything about Wicked? Yeah, I know I could talk about it all day, but let me tell Andy so he can come back here.

But.

But yeah, and I also, I have a recommendation at the end of the episode for if you're an Oz fan and you want to kind of go deeper and find another story in this universe that I think they could also adapt. I do have a recommendation again, but. But yes, this is. That's Wicked. So Andy, well, I'll be. I look forward to your thoughts when you get.

You get to see it with the family because. And what kind of you think of all the like connections to wizard of Oz and all the changes and everything there backstories. So very cool. Awesome.

Well, what is our next topic here? Ah, here we go. Wake up, dead man. So. And Andy, I know it's. You want. You want to tell your excuse again for not so.

I've got two kids in college. One of them came home yesterday and one of them comes home Wednesday and we are all big Brian Johnson knives out Benoit Blanc fans. So we cannot.

We cannot be a part to watch this one. We had to wait till we're all together. So I will. I will sit this one out, but I'm very stoked.

I've heard lots of good things and look forward to hearing what you guys have to say. And if you want to cat spoilers again, I can take my headphones off again.

Andy, you have more patience than I do. I don't know that I would be as good dedicated father if I had to like wait for all these. I'm like, I'm.

I would probably lie and be like, yeah, let's watch this. I haven't seen it yet, you know, and, like, and try to, like, like, do fake reactions, but the thought has.

But I, I, I did. My, my daughter actually made me pinky swear over a video chat the other day. It's like, we have. We can't watch it until I'm home.

Like, well, I can't go back on the pinky swear.

The pinky swear is, is, is all ceiling, so that's fair. But, yeah, no, actually, I think I don't. If y' all are cool, I think I can talk.

We can talk about this without spoiling, because I'm more interested in hearing what y' all think of the overall tone of this movie and kind of how it compares and contrasts with the other two Knives Out. So I, I don't necessarily need to spoil the plot itself. It's more. I'm more interested in what y' all thought of, like, the movie itself.

But, Alex, like, what, like, what I. I start with, like, what you thought of this one and kind of what your background is with the now Knives out trilogy.

So I haven't seen this particular movie yet.

Okay, gotcha. No worries. No worries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What. What are your thoughts on the other two Knives out, though? Like, I've seen the first one.

It's been a minute, but I thought it was pretty.

Okay. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fun one. Yeah, yeah. Like, I, I remember when it first came out. So, like, I. Christian, Ashley, will.

He already knows we've done a full episode, but he knows I am a big fan of Last Jedi. I, like, I'm in that camp, and. And then I have. One of my best friends is a huge murder mystery buff.

So when we saw the trailer for this, it was, like, from Ryan Johnson, who done it. We were both, like, ecstatic because he's a huge murder mystery fan. We both love Last Jedi, so, you know, we were so.

We've seen all the Knives out movies in the. I really enjoyed the other two. And, yeah, I'll share my thoughts on this one in a second.

Joe, what did you think about this one and kind of how it compares to the other two in the trilogy?

I love this series. I want it to be, like, fast and furious. I will take 19 knives out. I love them.

I love Rian Johnson and his, like, commentary on our absurd American life. He just nailed it every time with every character that is, like, over the top of an archetype And I love, like.

I just feel like he got so much criticism for what he did with Star wars because of, like, diversity, specifically racial diversity, that I love to see how he has that play out in these films. I thought mostly with the first. The first knife out.

Yeah.

What he did with that to kind of like turn it on its head. But just like, for this film, I thought visually it was the best film. The play of shadow and light was just phenomenal. I love the way that was done.

As far as mystery and plot. I know you said earlier it was your favorite. I think it's probably my least favorite, but I still loved it.

Yeah. Yeah. I. So it's interesting because, like, friend again, the friend that I saw with who is a huge murder mystery buff.

I'm not like the murderers Debuff. I like them here and there, but I don't know all of the kind of tropes and. Right.

I have the encyclopedic knowledge, like I do for superheroes and stuff like that. But I like with the. With Knives out and Glass Onion, I. I think Glass Onion is by far the most entertaining for me and the funniest.

And like, it has just like the quirkiest characters and I really enjoy watching it. But I think with that one and Knives out, they both do these like, really over the top mystery elements.

And that makes it like, really fun, you know, blast to watch. What, Why I say this one is the best mystery of them is like a. I was genuinely like, even well into the third act, I'm like, where is this going?

He keeps like throwing surprise and surprise after you, plot wise.

But also, I think beyond even like the mystery element here, it was the narrative structure of this one and how much it differs from the other two because I get without major spoilers, Benoit Block doesn't really enter this movie until I'd say a little over a half hour into. Starts off with the perspective of Josh o' Connor's character, who is a priest coming to.

Doing this new job and working for this very cult like, priest played by Josh Brolin. And you know, and. And so we know. I mean, just like the other. We know that it's. Josh Brolin's character is the one who's murdered. But.

But instead of it jumping immediately to Benoit, Block shows up the church and starts the investigation.

The entire first act is Josh OConnor's character coming to this church, meeting the congregants, you know, working with Josh Brolin's character and you know, like. And you know, he's One of the suspects. Well, everyone thinks he did it because he grew very frustrated with Brolin's character.

And, you know, they had diametrically opposed theologies. And this is, again, why we got to do a full episode on this, because there is a lot of religious themes to tackle this movie. That.

And I'll get to that in a sec, too, because Brian Johnson has some really interesting commentary there.

But, yeah, that was what I was fascinated by, was, like, the whole first act was structured way different from the other two, and it waited to bring Benoit Block in and it all. And then once Benoit Block does come in, it dials down the humor a lot. That is very much the DNA of the other two movies.

And that's why I was just really immersed. Jill, like you said, from a visual standpoint, it's incredible here. The. The mixture of shadow, the cinematography, just, like, how it really.

And I think part that really the visual cues really helped enhance the mystery element for me too. It just built so much with tension, suspense, and.

And again, once it did get into the third act and it kept unraveling, I was just, like, so immersed there because, like, the kind of main twist in Glass Onion comes about midway through, you know, Whereas here, it's like, it keeps you guessing and messing with you until the very end, and it's just puzzle piece. So that's why I say it was, like, the most compelling mystery. But I see your point as well, you know.

Yeah, I. I think, too, this was the best Benoit Blanc arc that we have.

Yes.

Right. You saw this journey that he goes on that we haven't really seen that in previous movies. That was very cool to see.

And even his relationship to faith, you could. You could see it. That was cool.

And I.

Well, and this is something we've talked about on the show before in terms of how, like, you know, like, we talk about this in Last of Us, and it's pretty good. It's big trip in horror when they have a religious character. It's pretty much always the Josh Brolin type character.

The very, like, cult, like, judgmental. Like, you know, the one you can't empathize with. Like, they're the one that is using religion to.

As a weapon to start to get out of the people and attain power. And, you know, Josh Brolin's character is very much that character, but Josh o' Connor is antithesis.

Antithesis to that and is very much, you know, wanting to provide a gentler faith and really meet people where they are. And he has this fascinating backstory where he was a boxer and someone, an opponent of his died in the ring.

And it, you know, led him to, you know, to his rebirth and finding faith. And he is trying everything to be a non violent person. And so I liked the exploration of faith here. And then Benoit Block comes in as a huge skeptic.

And again, and I won't spoil what his arc is, but it's really fascinating in how that is handled.

And, you know, this brings to a point is that Rian Johnson has like, I didn't know this until this movie and reading all the interviews, watching panels with him, but he is an ex evangelical Christian who grew up in a very conservative environment. Growing up where it was, you know, it took up every aspect of his life growing up and then he drifted away from it.

But I, I think he really does a great job having a respect and a close, nuanced examination of faith here that isn't this, like, overly critical. Like, oh, all people of faith are automatically monsters or hypocrites or whatever. There certainly are those people 100%.

And there are systemic issues with people abusing faith for political power. And so he tackles that.

But he also shows characters who are genuinely, you know, people of faith who are humble and want to actually do good and make a difference. So I thought it was an excellent depiction of that until. What did you think of that in terms of how it handled those themes?

And, you know, yeah, yeah, we talked about nuance earlier. I think it does a great job with nuance. I also am not mad at a hot priest. That.

Right.

That's a big bonus. We'll take it. But it reminded me of a conversation I had had about the film Conclave.

And the person I was talking with about said, if the movie Conclave doesn't leave you with a. What did he say? A crack in the foundation of your faith that's a mile wide. I don't know what will.

And I kind of felt the same way about this movie, like it should or it could force you to think about your faith and who are the players in our, our churches, our congregations, and like, what might be underneath that. I think they do a really good job of being introspective in that way.

And I really appreciate Rian Johnson's treatment of women in the church through this movie and how some.

I, I won't give any spoilers, but the, the sacrifice of women for not just service of the church to the church, but also of the patriarchy in the church. I thought he nailed that theme and did it so well.

100%. And there was also. There's a. There's a. For, you know, I mean, this one is about, what, a little over two hours? Close to two and a half.

I mean, there's a lot. But the amount of themes he thought tackles here. There's also a disabled character here that I thought that was handled well also.

In relation to faith.

Yeah. Yep. Yep, it was. And so, yeah, no, this was one I was just like.

Because, again, I think the other two I had a ton of fun with, but I don't know that I was thinking in particular about. I mean, there. You know, there was certainly satire and like you said earlier, there was this kind of depiction of American life. And.

But I Also, with Knives out of Glass Onion, they neither lingered with me as much in terms of kind of deep philosophical takeaways. You know, they were, you know, really fun murder mysteries.

I love the characters and just like, you know, and they're, you know, they're all so messed up. And I had a great time with both of those. This one, you know, I.

Again, I was like, watching every panel with Ryan Johnson afterwards, reading up on it. Really, I was really thinking about this for days afterward and.

And just how it depicts the different themes of, you know, religious, political, interpersonal dynamics. It. It just really was, I think, his most ambitious. And in some ways that's led to criticism.

Like, some people, I think, came in wanting a more straightforward, Just another Knives. Knives out movie. And this one is very different from that.

It's also, while there, you know, you've got a great cast here of, like, Jeremy Rayner, Kerry Washington, Glenn Close, like, great supported guys, Thomas Aiden Church.

But I will say with this one there, you know, it has such an eclectic cast of characters in the first two as well, but there's more emphasis on all of those characters here. It's almost a core trio movie with, again, Josh o', Connor, his character, Benoit Blanc, and then Josh Brolins.

And so it puts more emphasis on those and still has the quirky ensemble, but there's less emphasis on that than there is in the other two. And I thought that was an interesting choice as well.

There were times where I'm like, okay, I kind of want to see more of this character explored, but there were a lot of moving parts to this movie. And again, I. I think it was worth it ultimately, because I thought that ending played out really well.

But, yeah, I agree. I can't wait to hear what Andy thinks of it after he sees it.

I. Andy, Alex, I'm very excited for your thoughts because It's, I mean, it's on Netflix now. Actually it's still playing in theaters. This is one I would recommend seeing in theaters if you get a chance to.

But it's also available streaming now. But. And Jill, I agree with you. I would take another 19 of these movies as well. I, I mean, I, I want to see Ryan Johnson make other stuff too.

I know he is writing something different now that he talked about in Hollywood Reporter, like a 70s style thriller. So I want him to tackle all kinds of movies. But I could see this franchise going on for as long as he wants it. Very cool. Excellent.

Well, that is Wake up dead man. I know. We're sure as I were probably going to make this a longer episode, but. Oh well, Supergirl though, we got to talk about so.

Well, I like Andy and I are always big comic book fans. Jill, Alex, where are you all in the terms of DC universe, comic movies, etc.

Go ahead, Alec, you go first.

So I am a Marvel girl, like through and through, but I will say D.C. is kind of winning me over. I loved the last Superman and we got like a little glimpse of Supergirl at the very end. I did love the cw.

Like Flash was probably my favorite show because I watched it with my son who is also away at college or just came home. So that this part of DC I love and I am so excited when I saw this trailer. I just love it. I really like Millie Alcock.

I just saw her in Sirens, which I thought was a phenomenal show and she did a great job in it. I'm just trying to figure out is her character Supergirl, is she drunk or is this just her affectation because she's an alien?

Because I didn't think the aliens could get drunk.

So do you, you want me to go on, Alex? Do you want to share your thoughts first or do you want me to go ahead and explain? I can easily explain that, but yeah.

Yeah, I guess I can share my thoughts. So I'm glad, Jill, that you said what you said because I'm also. I used to be a hardcore Marvel girl.

Girly.

But with the recent stuff they've been putting out and like, it's just, it's just overloaded with so much content and you gotta like keep up with everything to stay in track with like the storyline. Don't even get me started on the multiverse. So D.C. is slowly. It's also like living me over. And I did see Superman with my family in theaters.

I really thought it was a good movie. I like, I appreciate how they, like, just skipped over, like, the classic origin story, oh, he came in a ship when he was a baby, landed a farm.

Like, we just skipped all that because everybody knows that. So it just got to, like, the meat and potatoes, everything. So I appreciated that. And it just.

Just put a different twist on, like, humanity and stuff and things. I could also answer the question about how Supergirl is drunk too, if you want me to, but if you want.

Take it away. Take it away.

Well, I'm not good at explaining, so if you want to take over, you can. But basically it's because of the suns. She can't get drunk on Earth because the sun is yellow, though. She.

At the end of the movie, she came back from a different planet that had a red sun where she could get drunk and all that.

So, yes, perfect. And, well, angel, in terms of, like, why she's, like, partying and chicken. In terms of. So this movie is.

And thank you, Alex, for that, because, like, yeah, that was like. It's exactly right in terms of the sci fi aspect of it.

And this movie is specifically based on a comic called Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow, written by Tom King. And the part when he went in writing this one, one of the questions he had was, you know, Supergirl is always depicted as this optimistic, you know.

You know, like, you get her much like Superman, but in some ways even more so. And his problem with that was, whereas, yeah, Superman also comes from a planet that was destroyed.

They both don't crypton, but he never saw that happen. He was the baby. Supergirl is actually witnesses. Her entire civilization destroyed. She lives with this trauma.

She then comes to Earth, and even though she's older than Superman, she's still viewed as his younger cousin because of the way she was stayed in, because of, like, the time gap in terms of when it took for her ship to land. So she's dealing with all of this trauma and internal struggle that Woman of Tomorrow really taps into. And so this.

And this movie is very much adapting that.

And it wants to show a superhero that it doesn't have it all together, that is messy, and that has a lot of emotional baggage she's carrying while still, you know, having a mission and, you know, doing what's right. But she has all of these. All this bit of trauma that she's wrestling through. And the comic does a great job at exploring that.

And based on this trailer alone, I think that this is a. It looks to be a very faithful adaptation. There will be changes here, but I. And I think, you know, in good ways But.

But yeah, I'm a massive fan of that comic. Specifically highly recommend it. Even if you've never read really any DC or any kind of Supergirl.

It's a great standalone 12 issue miniseries to read and the art is absolutely stellar. And seeing this trailer, they really captured the aesthetic really well. I'm actually, I'm a big fan of the director. He did the. The.

Was it like the Cruella deville movie, the. With Emma Stone, which I think is one of the best. Like there's a lot of the live action Disney movies I really don't like, but.

And the prequel origin ones. That one I thought is excellent and he did that.

He's also the TV work and this one also when James Gunn read the screenplay for it, he said it was absolutely stellar. So I cannot wait for this. But Andy, is there anything you want to add there as far as like the comic or your thoughts on the trailer?

I agree that it looks like a very faithful adaptation of the book. I wish that excited me more.

I wish the fact that this was clearly a continuation of picking up where Superman left off excited me more and maybe this movie will change my mind. But so far it looks like it's doubling down on all the things that turn me off of Superman, which is.

I know we had like y'. All, for viewers, listeners, you have to go back and watch the. Our review of Superman. Well, we did several.

But then we did an episode on Superman Fantastic Four, Jurassic World, and he had a really interesting perspective there that I respectfully disagree with.

But I think it was really fascinating though because I do think like Superman really captured the overt optimism and this is going to take a different route, but it was a really interesting thought. I encourage you to go back and listen to that episode and all the ones we did.

We did a lot of coverage of Superman and DC over the summer, but yeah, I, Yeah, no, I mean, I, I understand though, if you're not in the mood for a really gritty, kind of messy superhero movie, this may not be for you because that's really what this is going to be. And the. The book is even described as true grit, like in the DC universe. It's very much based on that novel and film. And yeah, at the.

At our comic shop we did a discussion on it about a couple months ago that was really cool, but definitely check it out. But yeah, there's. I mean, there. I can go deeper. I know we're running out of time here, but I could go deeper on the trailer. But I.

As far as my Thoughts? I'm just, I'm excited for it. I love dc. And Jill, to your point too, about like I. With the.

Because I'm also a big fan of Marvel too, but I what frustrated me about the DC movies and like kind of mainstream culture not getting like how cool DC was because the movies were so bad for a while and now they're finally getting right because I always grew up on the animation and the comics that were just stellar and the movies just kind of sucked for a while, but now they're like, it's what I've always wanted and I'm super happy. So yeah, the trailer really loved it. And also Jason Momoa as Lobo. That is the role he was born to play. And I cannot wait to see, see that.

We got a little teaser image here, but I cannot wait to see him really step into that role. Awesome. Well, I know we still got a little bit left. So Andy, what is our next topic here?

So I was hoping to speak a little bit about the Netflix miniseries about James Garfield and Charles Guiteau and actually Charles Arthur is a significant player as well. Did anybody else watch this show or is it going to be me monologuing?

I have not. If you want to monologue, I've been talking, so I'm good to shut up on this one.

All right, go for it. I haven't seen the show yet. I'm excited for it.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it is a four part miniseries about President James Garfield who was assassinated by Charles Guiteau. And they are played by Michael Shannon and Matthew McFadden respectively, as seen in the, in the poster there.

So not long after the end of the Civil War, America is still very much figuring out how to come together again, how to reconcile all the changes, how to unify what was a clearly very fractured and still, you know, still is a fractured country. And you know, I didn't know much about the, the history of, of these individuals, you know, but. And so I wasn't sure what to expect this.

But, you know, it's very well done, very compelling. I wasn't sure, you know, was it, did it need to be a four episode miniseries when it's only president for three months.

But, you know, it's structured very well that each, each episode feels like a significant chunk of his life, you know, and has its own kind of themes and explorations, but we kind of see these parallel stories of Charles de Coke convinced that he, that he has been, he's on a mission from God essentially, or he has been burdened with glorious purpose. You know, choose your, your movie, TV quote that he just wants to be a part of what is happening in America.

And so he starts out just wanting to be a part of the, the power structure of, of America in any way that he can.

And so he's just constantly putting himself in the path of all the various senators and presidential candidates and so forth, trying to find a place in what they're doing, campaigning for them, trying to write speeches for them, trying to, you know, he's angling for a position in the cabinet or position as a consul overseas or something. He just wants to be part of what is going on.

And they keep kind of shutting the door on him partly because he keeps kind of making, he's trying to fake it till he makes it in the most extreme way possible.

Like he, you know, he'll talk to one, one senator and you know, say that he's got endorsements from these other senators and he was just kind of like trying to find. But you know, it's all, it's all spin and made up stories that he's got or he's exaggerating the barest contact that he's had with these people.

And so that eventually, you know, when he continues to be rebuffed, that eventually sours and that's when he becomes convinced that he has, he has been given this mission to assassinate President Garfield. You know, and on the flip side, we're introduced.

The first episode is entirely based around the Republican convention leading up to the election of Garfield, in which Garfield does not. When he arrives at the convention, he is not putting himself forward as a candidate. He does not intend to run for president.

He is there to support one of the other candidates.

But the, the, there's a big split and I apologize for not knowing all the history, but there's a clear split between sort of two factions of the Republican Party at the time about how to proceed with the Reconstruction and all the different things reforming American and everything else that needs to go on. They have very different takes on that. And so the party is very strongly split between these two groups.

And they go through like 34 rounds of voting and can't come up with a candidate. The voting was done differently these days. These weren't all things that were done by popular election of all the states.

There are folks, there are electors there that are there to pick a candidate for the Republican Party. And so they're just voting in a closed room more Conclave esque than modern election day esque to pick a candidate. They can't decide.

They can't decide. It just keeps being a split ballot. And somewhere along that process, based on a speech that he gave, somebody puts forward James Garfield's name.

And so he gets one vote in round 12 or whatever it is.

And that, you know, that same guy just keeps voting for James Garfield and voting for James Garfield because of this very compelling speech that he gave. And eventually other folks are so frustrated with the deadlock that they're like, well, maybe we'll try voting for James Garfield.

And so then he gets like 12 votes and then he gets like 20 votes.

And then eventually both of the two side, both of the leaders of the two sides of the group kind of realize, well, let's, let's throw our way behind Garfield.

He's, you know, he's kind of a pick that we can maybe manipulate and, and find some way to sort of lead, be the, be the power behind the throne kind of thing if we put him forward.

And so he winds up getting a very large number of votes once they finally decide that they're going to back him and becomes this sort of unexpected reluctant candidate for president, you know, as depicted in the show, a very reluctant. I don't know if, you know, in real life, maybe he did have some ambition or whatever. It's hard to, Hard to say.

Or at least, I don't know, maybe it's very easy for some historian to say, but yeah, so he, so he becomes president and then they need a vice president and they put forward Chester A. Arthur, who is the diametrical opposite, right? He is part of the party machine.

He is as depicted again in the, in the show, he's out kind of, you know, cracking skulls to get essentially bribes, right? The. For. For the party machinery and for his own pocket to, to kind of keep things going, you know.

A lot of the things, you know, that, that got various, you know, the Teapot Dome scandal and very, you know, various things that, that are maybe just names are from history books or whatever, but that, you know, so, you know, so Chester Arthur, you know, is very much part of that, that machinery. So they put him in figuring, you know, he'll be kind of the, the one to, to steer the ship, so to speak. He'll keep.

He'll represent the interest of the. The. The establishment. And, you know, so that. That's where the. The first episode ends. And then over the course of.

Of the remaining episodes, you know, there's a real transformation in Chester Arthur to the point where he becomes, you know, so he, you know. Spoilers. He's the vice president when Garfield is assassinated three months in.

So he becomes the president for most of Garfield's term and becomes this, you know, changes over from being this, you know, kind of party thug to a reformer and someone who appreciates the political process for the good that it can achieve and not just the money that it can put in people's pockets. Again, as depicted in the show, there are certainly events in real life that. That correspond with that.

How much of a transition that was, you know, how quickly it happened, I don't know in the show. It's very much possibly because of the time I was watching it. It had very much a, you know, end of Christmas Carol kind of vibe of, you know, he.

The scales have fallen from his eyes and he awakens one morning and, you know, you there, boy.

What.

What day is it? Kind of. Kind of moment. But yeah, so that, you know, I thought that was just a very compelling. The way that his.

The.

His interactions with James Garfield as this figure who is not interested in playing politics the usual way kind of wins over Chester Arthur. Not through. Not through violence, not even through persuasion or coercion, but just through his. Through his example, the way that he acts. There's a.

There's a great scene where Chester Arthur goes to resign. He's so frustrated with how things are going that he turns.

He wants to turn in his resignation to Garfield and Garfield's like, I hear where you're coming from, but no, thank you. You can stay on. I don't have any problems with what's going on. It's like. But we can't. We don't agree on anything.

Like, I understand and I hope you'll change your mind, but that's not my job. And, you know, it'll just.

And it.

It struck me, you know, in a show that could. Could feel maybe a little, because it ends with. With a death, could feel a bit of a. Of a messianic Christ allegory.

That sequence felt to me like a bit of Jesus. Like. But maybe not Christ, like it's not quite necessary messianic. But the way that Garfield is depicted is just sort of like, I'm gonna.

I'm gonna come at this at an orthogonal direction from where the usual direction is, and just kind of through, you know, calmly, you know, talking and showing you a little bit of love and compassion. I'm going to, you know, have, have an effect on the situation. And yeah, I just thought that was really well done and really striking.

Yeah.

So I, I didn't know what to expect from it.

But yeah, I was, I was really impressed with, with the story that it told and, and the kinds of values that it was encouraging in the political process. You know, we, there's, there's a lot of that is said negatively about the political process and certainly it can be abused in a lot of ways.

But I think this was a good example of the ways in which people can use the political process to achieve worthwhile ends, not just for themselves, but for, for other people.

There's also an element to the way that James Garfield dies largely as a result of a senior medical person in Washington not ascribing to the germ theory of disease, which unfortunately seemed a bit more relevant than one might have imagined 140 years later. But I'll, I won't get on my microbiology hobby horse too much on that, but I will just highlight that as well.

But yeah, so, you know, I think it is worth your time if you have a chance. I know there's a lot of other things going on even just on Netflix. There's a lot, a lot of hours of things to watch this holiday season.

But if you need something that maybe gives you a little bit more hope about where America could, could go, if the right people make the right choices, then that might be the show for you.

So, Andy, your kids didn't make you pinky swear to watch this one with.

Hey, this is a stat cast too. I mean, I even make faded Michael Shannon and then also like Bradley Whitford, Nick Offerman. So I, I definitely want to check this out.

I think I saw the image, but I didn't really know anything about it.

Yeah, Nick Offerman plays Chester Arthur. He is just having a grand old time during, you know, Chester Arthur's villainous phase and really sells the transition.

And Shea Wiggum has just the most fantastic facial hair of, of anybody on screen this year.

I think as an, as a almost literally mustache twirling villain senator who was one, one of the rival leaders in the, in the early sequences and throughout the show. But yeah, if you, if you love hating him in Mission Impossible, Final Reckoning. You'll love hating him as Senator Roscoe Conklin.

Excellent facial hair, excellent name, terrible politics.

He was also in the Dana McBride series Vice Principals as like as his. As Danny McBride's characters. Ex wife's husband. Yeah, but, but yeah, see in Mission Impossible, you definitely hit him there. Cool. Good pick.

I like it. I did. This is one I'm glad I again, I knew really nothing about. So I, I enjoyed your analysis there.

Thanks.

Awesome. Well, we got.

Speaking of Netflix, I know this is something we could literally do an entire episode on and I know I don't want to take up too much time here, but we had to talk about this. So I'll give the brief overview of what's going on and then we can kind of share our thoughts. But, but if you haven't heard.

Well, first off, Warner Brothers has been up for sale for months now with different studios and, and companies trying to make the highest bid. Initially it was looking like Paramount was going to be the winner there, but then Netflix came in been about a.

It was about a week ago where I think they offered somewhere around the range of 80 billion to acquire Warner Brothers. Though shortly after Paramount came in and is trying to increase their bit. Apparently they really want it.

But so not like I, as far as I know right now it's still kind of a bit like it looks like Netflix will be the purveyor but. But Paramount is still inhibiting war there.

But essentially, yes, this means that, you know, Warner Brothers, one of the longest lasting legacy movie studios, could be eaten up by the same streamer that.

Yeah, we were just talking about watching, you know, Wake Up Dead man on and, and series Andy is just talking about and you know, like back in the day, I mean, I know all of us probably remember the days when Netflix started out as the mail in service that would just send you DVDs and we thought it was the best thing ever. And then now we're in this like, you know, oh, they don't allow you to share passwords because like saves away money.

But they can afford to wop out 80 billion to acquire Warner Brothers. So yeah, if you couldn't tell, I'm pretty cynical about this.

I don't really have many positive things to say here and it makes me terrified for the future of particularly movie going. I am a huge like proponent of going to movie theaters and I go all the time. That's what has me worried the most. But Joe, we'll start with you.

What are kind of your initial thoughts on this and the whole bidding war and everything.

Yeah.

I think, you know, I'll try to be brief because we don't have much time, but it is scary for those of us who love going to the theater that, you know, we just saw, like with Knives out that came out in the theater, and then within days, just a few days, it was available on streaming. They did the same thing with Frankenstein.

I think Netflix entire model for their movies is just to put it in the theaters long enough to qualify for awards season. But obviously that is not where they're making their money. Their money is made in streaming.

And we've seen some really interesting pleas from movie theaters, and there's been op EDS and big newspapers about, like, if this happens, our theater experience will die, which is so sad. Then on the other hand, you have Paramount and David Ellison, being the owner of that now, just compiling data.

And what he did with his company, Oracle, is really just about collecting data to feed to AI and that's a whole other type of scary thing that we're stepping into. I just feel like as people who enjoy watching art, we're going to lose whoever wins this, we're losing.

And not to harp on someone's physical appearance, but David Ellison literally looks like a cartoon villain out of like. So, I mean, he just like, I'm okay saying that because he's an awful human being.

And like, they like, I have like, nothing nice to say about him and his daddy, who is a big body with our president, but, you know, that is. But no, I agree completely. I think it just like, it's.

There's to me, no really good outcome with either of them acquiring because neither are putting art and artists first. And that's what terrifies me.

Right.

And I think with if Paramount plus ends up winning, which they're just offering the shareholders flat, the $30 a share, the shareholders will ultimately decide will they take it or not.

Is we also have so much censorship that comes into play now and, well, either way, you're creating these monopolies and there'll be a lot less freedom for smaller independent studios to make film that we love to watch.

Oh, yeah, it's Alex. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Oh, I got plenty, but I'll keep it short.

Yeah, yeah.

So I was so against all this. Didn't know about the AI thing until you just said it. So it makes me not like it even more because as a creative, I am so against AI.

I am so against it. And the fact that Netflix has tried to buy out Warner Bros. And I feel like, it's just going to kill theater culture.

Like, I feel like ever since, like street, like, especially after Covid with Disney plus and all that, like the theater culture took a hit. But this is like, this is like the final KO to me, I feel like, which sucks because I love going to the movie theaters.

Like, it's so different watching a movie and experiencing it with a bunch of strangers than just watching it at home. Like, anyway, what else? Yeah, and I feel like it's just. It just sucks because this is more like a business thing and not like a creative.

Like, they don't care about creatives anymore. They only care about how much money they go online their pockets with. So no one cares about the art of movies or anything anymore, I feel like.

And it sucks.

Yeah. And it's also like these executives just like looping art into content, you know, like, and I hate that.

Well, like, where it's just like when you monopolize everything and, you know, Guy was watching a screen Crush video about this whole situation and they were saying here, like, if Netflix does, if Netflix acquires this, then they also own DC Comics and all this other stuff. And they. I, like, he could see the host there, could see a world where they try to put, you know, as much all the media they own onto one service.

And it's just like, you know, streamlined and, you know, it's books and movies and everything like that. But again, it just becomes reduced to, oh, here's content. And that's not what art is.

You know, I mean, it's like, I just hate the way that they, all these top level executives view it as a commodity and as something just like that. They can just topple it over and they're only focused on engagement, growth and, you know, financial success on their end.

So, Andy, do you have any thoughts to add? I know this is a very dour way to end the episode, but we have to talk about it.

Well, let's see if we can. We can make something a little bit more positive out of it. You know, I certainly wouldn't choose any of these options. Right.

It's not something that I am glad is happening, but I don't know that it has to be all doom and gloom. Right. There are still places that are funding films for the sake of making films. You know, the bigger thing, bigger names.

You've got your A24s and your Blum houses and so forth. These are folks that still want to make art for the sake of making art.

You've got, you know, greater tools than have Ever previously been available in terms of being able to make, you know, theatrical quality films on your iPhone or you know, and doing visual effects. What was the movie monster. But movies that were, they're doing visual effects, right?

Like three people are doing cinema quality visual effects on their laptops, right? The tools are out there. It's whether people will choose to utilize them and make them.

Maybe the theatrical experience will go back to the road picture concept of again.

Like the, the landscape of the past 20 years is not the way that movies have always worked. The movie going experience, the theater experience has always been evolving. And maybe there is something else that comes after this.

You know, will we miss what we've had? Absolutely. Could it collapse, right? Could it, you know, could this mean that.

That theaters as we movie theaters as we know them more or less shut down? Sure, it could.

But I think there are options out there and I think if we want to put the will and the effort and the money into supporting them, you know, there are opportunities for other things to spring up. Even as the, you know, the big legacy names kind of consolidate there.

You know, there is a long history of, of that kind of, you know, consolidation of things that were big and too, too big to be nimble and change kind of consolidating because that's all the, the only option they have. And then other things springing up and taking their place.

And we can hope that maybe you know, a 24 or some other name that I, you know, we don't even know right now. Bills fills the gap where Warner Brothers used to be.

And I know, I'm glad you brought that up. There's a. And. And there's still that yearning for the aspect everyone is talking about.

I mean, you know, yes, theaters have struggled a lot, but there are still people who want to experience that and want. And filmmakers who obvious and creatives who obviously supported.

So I think what we can do on as consumers is a, you know, obviously support theaters also buy physical media. You know, I mean I have like, I have several bookshelves here but.

But one has mostly movies on there and I still love collecting blu rays and 4Ks and you know, having that on display. And that really I think sends a message to the big studios. There's still an appetite in the market for that.

But yeah, I, I like the concept is, you know, we're entering uncharted territory here, but there is still an opportunity for something new to come about that is artistically beneficial for everyone and that is community oriented. So we'll see what happens. But yeah, it's a lot of uncertainty.

I think this will be a new story we'll be talking about for months on end as it evolves and more updates take place. Awesome. Well, I know this has been a jam packed episode. This was great, y'. All. I, I really enjoyed talking with it all in.

And again, if you are on YouTube right now, please give us a like, we really appreciate it. And before we go, do we have any recommendations we want to share? I could I, I alluded to mine earlier. I'll share real quick.

But when we were talking about Wicked.

But if you want to dive deeper into the wizard of Oz universe, I recommend a YA series called Dorothy Must Die, written by Danielle Page, which is about without any spoilers. It's takes place in the present day.

Another girl from Kansas gets swept away to Oz and when she arrives, Dorothy is now this evil dictator who's taken over. And it's like. And where it fits in terms of the larger canon, I, I think it's kind of its own thing, but it hasn't really.

There's four main novels and then a bunch of spin off novellas as well that Daniel Page also wrote. And that again is I think, like if they want to do another Oz story, I think that would be a great TV show.

But I really love those books and I highly recommend them. So that's my recommendation. Alex, what about you?

Do you have a recommendation either from something we've talked about tonight or something totally different that you just want to shout out?

Yes, shout out to Wicked for good because it's still a good movie. Y' all should definitely watch that. And I also recommend the latest demon Slayer movie because that was, it was phenomenal.

Excellent picks. I love it. Jill, what about you?

I really want to recommend because holidays are coming up and you know, like I have a bunch of family in town. Maybe you do too. Maybe you're visiting is live entertainment. We're going to a couple of shows like at small theaters near our house.

And so I just want to encourage people to get out and interact with a live audience.

Excellent pick. I love it. Okay, Andy, what about you?

In the height of irony, I will recommend another Netflix film if you want to be inspired about lo fi low budget shoestring movie making for the Passion of the art. A film called Nouvelle Vague. It's about the French new wave. It's about the making of Breathless.

And yeah, it is just a fascinating look at the way that, you know, a small group of very passionate film fans and filmmakers were coming together in, in around Paris to kind of invent a new way of making movies and thinking about what you could do with cinematic storytelling and doing so in a very, you know, not nearly lo fi, but just sort of low tech Korea, you know, filmmaking kind of, kind of approach. Right.

The, they're just on location at one point, you know, they had a guy in a, in a mail carrying wagon so that nobody knows that he's filming on the streets and they can just push him around in this, in this wagon while he's, while he's filming. Like that kind of thing, you know, has very much like they would have been filming on iPhones if they had that kind of technology.

It's kind of that vibe one imagines maybe not. Maybe the digital part would have, would have been a turn off. But you get the idea, right.

They're trying to innovate with simple tools and what was available to them for a minimal budget. Yeah. If you need some. A dose of excitement for that kind of filmmaking. For the love of the art. Nouvelle Vogue.

Interesting pick. Yeah. It is ironic how many like, I mean, I mean there's still some of my favorite movies that Netflix has produced.

I mean, just this year, Frankenstein is in my top three. So there's still plenty of stuff there. We will see how this all plays out. But awesome. Well, Joe, Alex, Andy, this has been great.

I really love geeking out with y' all tonight. This is the good after like bad news weekend. It was good to have this as like a, you know, come together. So much going on in the geek spirit.

So dollar listeners, viewers out there, we want to thank you all for tuning in. You know, again, like subscribe rate review. We really appreciate it. And remember, we are all a chosen fool. A kingdom of. Take care everyone.