Kevin Schaefer, Justin Coleman, Evan Garcia, and Joshua Noel dive into the latest Spider-Man flick, "Brand New Day!" and it's clear they're all about that Spidey life. Right off the bat, they tackle how this film shifts the narrative, focusing less on traditional villains and more on the inner struggles of Peter Parker and his journey toward empathy. They chat about the film’s pacing, emotional weight, and how it beautifully blends humor with deeper themes, which resonates especially well with their shared faith perspectives. The crew also shares some light-hearted banter about the crazy dynamics between characters like Peter and Frank Castle, and how the film captures the essence of friendship and redemption. Whether you're a die-hard Spidey fan or just here for the pop culture vibes, this episode serves up a fresh take on the superhero genre that’s sure to get the ol' gears turning.

The episode focuses heavily on the latest adventures of Spider-Man, with the crew dissecting the film's impact and the emotional arcs of its characters. Joshua leads the charge, sharing his surprisingly profound enjoyment of a film that he initially didn't expect much from, emphasizing its ability to keep him engaged throughout its hefty runtime. The group gets into the nitty-gritty of the movie's themes, particularly how it handles the concepts of friendship and redemption, often referencing deeper moral lessons. They engage in a lively debate about the film's antagonist, Jean Grey, and how her character serves as a mirror for Peter Parker's struggles, showcasing how their personal battles reflect broader societal issues. The conversation doesn't shy away from humor, as they playfully critique certain aspects of the film while simultaneously praising its bold choices. By the end of the episode, listeners are left with a sense of excitement and a deeper understanding of the nuanced storytelling that modern superhero films can offer, alongside a tease of potential future narratives involving the X-Men, which they hope will build upon this film's foundation.

Takeaways:

• The gang had a blast dissecting the film, deciding to split the discussion into two episodes after realizing they underestimated how much there was to cover.
• Joshua's love for the movie was clear, noting that despite some critiques, he was never bored, which is saying something for his attention span.
• The hosts highlighted the emotional depth of Spider-Man, especially the themes of friendship and sacrifice woven throughout the storyline.
• Kevin brought up the idea that the film tackled loneliness in a pandemic-like fashion, demonstrating how relatable Peter's struggles are for everyone.
• Evan's critiques of the film sparked a lively debate, revealing how subjective opinions on cinema can be, especially when it comes to beloved characters like Spider-Man.
• The episode wrapped up with a discussion on the future of the X-Men franchise, with the hosts expressing excitement for the upcoming Doomsday and its potential to tie into the Spider-Man universe.

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We are back. So we came in tonight planning on trying to tackle SDCC News and Spider man in under an hour. We were very foolish to think we could do that.

So we impromptly split it up into two episodes.

So if you're tuning in and you want to listen to the first part, go back and thereby you can find all of our thoughts on San Diego Comic Con, on Wonder man, on what else are we talking? Like a little bit of the X Men casting news and what we're geeking out on. But now we're getting into Spider Man. Brand new day.

And I am Kevin Schaefer. I am here with Evan Garcia, Joshua Noel, and Justin Coleman.

Joshua actually has to go very soon, so I'm actually going to hand it over to him because I really do want to hear his thoughts on the movie before he has to go. And then we'll get into more discussion after that. So, Joshua, tell us all your thoughts on on the latest Spidey extravaganza.

Lot to unpack. Really sad I won't be here to hear the rest. Glad I got to see you guys though. Like, especially, you know, especially all of you.

But like, I haven't seen Justin in a minute, so I'm like, man, that did my heart good. And then getting it. You and Evan just have this, like, cool dynamic with the what's News episode and you need to like, be a little part of it.

Oh, my God, this is cool. I'm like on a. On one of the Kevin Evan episodes.

Hello.

Yeah, man. First off, let me just say, fantastic film. I mean, it's not going to be like my favorite film or anything.

Like, I do have critiques, but like, start to finish, never bored, not once. Are you sure as far as the pacing goes, are you sure about that? Oh, I'm very sure. I am ADHD to the max. And I was like, two and a half hours.

Should I wait till this comes out on? Like, I really am. Like, should I wait? Because, like, can I pay attention that long? Yes, I can. I, like, I don't know if I blinked, I was like, this.

This is it. And like, it helped.

I watched a little short on Disney plus ahead of time that talked about some of like, the directors and the filmography and how they wanted to capture the action better than ever before and the action scenes, the like, the effects, everything. I'm like, oh, incredible. Just an incredible film. It felt to me, though, less like a Spider man film and a lot more like a buddy film.

I've compared it to Rush Hour a few times. It's like the superhero rush hour movie with. With Peter Parker and Frick Castle.

And I'm like, I could watch their dynamic all day, every day making a TV show. I will be there.

Like I am for this.

They're so funny. And dude, like, tearing up throughout the film. I did not think I'd get as emotional as the last film. And here I was also, since this is.

We.

We've said spoilers, right?

This is spoiler. Yeah, we did a full spoiler review on Sunday as well there. Yeah, sorry. If you haven't seen the movie, come back later.

So this is why I want to hear Andy at some point. Because I'm like, I'm notorious for bad opinions. And one of my bad opinions. It's pretty well known, I think, is that I just.

I can't get into the X Men ever. Like, I didn't even like my favorite characters. Like Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan. I'm like, that's my character.

And as soon as she joined the X Men, I'm like, all right, I'm going to start reading X Men comics. And I'm like, oh, man, I can't stay awake through this.

I just.

I want to like the X Men everything about it. I'm like, it's cool. It is so cool. But it just doesn't click for some reason. And then I'm like, oh, man, Sadie Sink's gonna be Jean.

Ah, this is gonna make me not like them. It didn't. I love that character. I want more.

And I'm like, I didn't think they could make me care about an X Men character, but here I am caring about an X Men character.

Yay.

Oh, man. Then they're cap. Like, they capitalize on all the stuff from the last film. The lessons he learned about, hey, we don't kick ass, we cure ass.

You know, we're gonna go help the people. And I'm like, wow. It's just. It's so moving. Not two different themes. That's kind of hard to tackle. I love that they built on that.

He didn't have to relearn the same lesson. It wasn't AN Iron Man 2 of, hey, Iron Man's gonna learn the same thing he did the last movie, right? He still has that.

Even at his lowest point, his darkest point here, he still hold on to the lessons he learned in that last film from Aunt May, from the other Peters, where he's like, no. And I know they don't use the Bible language, but I love my enemies and I was like, oh, listen, Captain America is my favorite hero.

And I, like, he inspires me. But there is nothing more heroic than the spider man we've seen in this movie. In the last movie, who says it is not about kicking ass.

It is about helping people. And I'm like, oh, God, this is hard not to be moved by. Christian shouldn't watch it. You know, it's not a let nothing move you kind of film.

No, I'm joking. I know Kristen loved the movie, too, and that, you know, we play.

But, man, all the way through, even, like, the relationship with mj, what happened where, like, he thought he was kissing her and she remembered him, and then, like, that being turned around, I was like, oh, that hurt me even a little bit, right? And going through the whole thing, the emotional arc, the action, every part. And I was worried it was gonna be crowded because you have Frank Castle.

You have, you know, Jean Grey, you got Hulk. It wasn't crowded. It wasn't boring to me. And I'm like, this. How did they pull this off? Was astounding.

And to me, that moment at the end where he saves Jean Grey, the person who was the enemy, the whole film, by jumping in front of the bullet, I'm, like, simultaneously flipping through Jesus's words of love your enemy and better love. Is this better love hath no man than willing to lay down his life for his friends, right?

And I'm like, bingo.

Hold up. He's not even laying down his life for his friends, though. He's laying his life down for his enemies. And what did Jesus say?

It is easy to love your friend. It's easy to love your neighbor, love your enemy. And he's showing the greatest love for his enemy.

Yep. Y.

And I'm like, I listen, if this doesn't make it to the pulpit in every church the next couple Sundays, I don't know if we're doing things right. Come on.

Come over the world.

I was like, you named it, man. Spot on.

Exactly. The fact that Frank Castle picked up on that, too, that was huge. I thought. I was like, right on, dude. Right on, man.

I was like, I just. The whole thing just shook me. Even, like, Frank Castle with his. Like, oh, you. You think that I chose this life?

And I'm like, man, I didn't choose to be lonely. And that's tackling to me.

So, like, not only do they tackle, like, these huge Christian themes that are, like, central to why I believe what I do and do everything that I do, not only are they tackling that you know, they don't mention Jesus, but that's what that is. Not only are they doing that, the other theme of the movie, they're tackling the most.

To me, one of the most relevant things in the world right now is the loneliness pandemic. And Peter Parker's right there in the middle of it. And we're saying to me what's interesting.

And one of the criticism I've seen, you know, the couple I've seen, I'm like, there wasn't a real enemy. And I'm like, you know, it would be cool.

There was also a different antagonist, not just Jean Grey, but again, it's already two and a half hours, borderline crowded. We didn't need it. I don't think the other criticism that I do kind of see is like, wait, he's done this before. And I'm like, okay, I get it.

He did the, oh, no, I need my friends thing early on. But to me, like, that's. It's really relatable. How many times have I learned a lesson and then went, oh, wait a minute, that lesson was wrong.

And then I had to relearn the lesson. Like, a lot of the times for me, when I learn things, maybe it's because I'm slow. It's like a pendulum or whatever, right?

Where, like, I'm like, okay, fundamentalism was wrong and now done with all the rules, I'm like, wait a minute.

No.

Some of those stances were there for a reason. Maybe I need to go back. And then I'm like, oh, man, maybe I went back too far. And I'm like, I constantly corrected myself back and forth.

So to see Peter doing the same thing, I'm like, yeah, that's what it's like, man is like. And there's the childish version of when he learned the first time he needed his friends, it was more of a selfish.

Like, this is about him and what he needs in him. And here it's no longer selfish. It's. He wanted to be selfless. He wanted to like, hey, I'm doing this for them.

And then he sees what he was doing wasn't. It wasn't really for them. So, like, yeah, it's a similar lesson, but that's real life, man.

Like, we do have to learn the same lesson over and over and add nuance to it as we go through our lives. And that's such a relevant topic for today. I was like, everything, the themes, the characters, the way they did the action, all of it was cool.

Literally, my only disappointment, if we're gonna have him do the mutation gene thing. I want Man Spider, but that could be in another movie still, so I'm not. It's not a real criticism. It's a. Please give me that at some point, Marvel.

I would like that.

That's fair.

Yeah.

I really did think they were gonna do that. And I'm. But I'm also kind of glad they didn't, because somebody I was. I. I mean, I said this on Sunday.

I was amazed at how much they had going on, but it didn't feel overstuffed. And I think if they had. If they had. I mean, as much as I wanted to see Daredevil show up, I'm also kind of glad he didn't like.

Because I'm like, it wasn't needed. Like, the. The characters that did show up here were relevant to the story.

And, yeah, they were able to tease the Man Spider thing and neogenic Nightmare from the Animated Series without going all the way there. But they could still do it at a later point.

Yeah, they could have Man Spider on Battle World in Secret war. Just an idea.

That's what that tracker was at the end.

Listen, if y' all listening, if R.

Brothers are tuning in right now.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I thought, like, once I saw that tracker in space, I'm like, oh, God, Peter's on Battle World. Are we going to get Man Spider on Battle Y.

Please, Please.

Yeah. So I'm thrilled. I'm glad you guys let me do a little rant. I wish you could be more part of the.

Is there anything directly you guys want to say about anything that I said? Because I do want to, like, engage a little bit. I don't want to just, you know, rant and leave.

I'll throw out the. So you mentioned the critique of it being a movie with. With no enemies. I very much like that because that's. That's our real world. Right. So we.

So we make. We make our enemies. We build stories that create enemies that supports the story about ourselves that we want to tell.

That's indification, you know, the making of enemies so that we reinforce our own narratives. And so I just love to see that on. On the screen and this. And it's this moment of redemption that helps multiple people see. This is a.

This is a fallacy. This is a. This is a fiction that has been created here. And. And redemption transforms our vision so that we can see through the fiction into reality.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah. Have you. Have you ever watched the Vinland Saga anime or read the manga or anything? Okay.

So, like, these Vikings, some of them, like, one or two convert to Christianity. It's like historic fiction. You know, some of the stuff happened, like, really based off characters.

So this is the quote that I love the most from the series. And TJ and I are doing an episode about the character who says this coming up soon. And I'm going to reference the Spider Man.

So we're going to go, like, double reference. You guys just got to keep tuning into this myology. But, like, I got to read the quote. You have no enemies. No one in the world is your enemy.

There is no one you need to hurt. And that's like the theme of that whole show is, no matter what, who's killing who, who's fighting, who's attacking you, there are no enemies. Yeah.

So I love what you said. I love the message. It's just. I love this.

Yeah, I love all that.

Anything else about the stuff that I said, then, I don't want to rant and run.

I love it.

Justin, do you have your sermon ready on Spider Man? Because I.

Need to. I need to. I was going to talk about Eutychus falling out of the window while Paul was preaching, but, man, I might have something.

You spoiled mine. You spoiled mine.

Oh, my goodness.

No. I mean, I like.

I mean, I kind of shared in my review the other night kind of the way, like, Spider man movies, the movies specifically hit me at different points in my life. Like, I was a kid when the Raimi trilogy came out. I was going into college when the first Andrew Garfield one dropped.

I was like, post college when Tom Holland started. And now I'm a grown man. And, like, it's still, like, the different eras of Spider man movies have hit me with different emotions and different.

And have meant something different each time. But, like, there's this nuance and this universal resonance about the character that carries throughout.

And I thought this movie really captured that.

And I said it on Sunday, too, that I thought Gene was a perfect antagonist here, where, yes, you know, she's going to be redeemed by the end because if you know anything about the character, like, yeah, she's not going to stay this way.

But I thought it was a perfect way to have Peter's mindset challenged and, you know, and to learn that there are others like him out there, because at this point, even when he had other Avengers around him, they weren't as much of outsiders like he was. And especially now where the whole world has forgotten them and the ones he loved the most are gone. And, like, even the ones he loved the most.

They're still here. They have no idea who he is. So he is totally alone. And, you know, he's wrestling with that. And his solution is to, oh, just work all the time.

But then when he finds someone who is in the same shoes but in a different layer, like, you know, he's able to use empathy to resolve that conflict. And.

And it also challenges his mindset toward authority figures, because at this point, he's been much more on the side of authority and the side of, like, government without really questioning any of that. And this really transforms it because, you know, you look at Jean's motivations, she was completely justified in wanting to take out damage control.

Like, after what they did to Sarah, what they did to her. So it's like, you can't really blame her or where she. Where she's at right now. And. And I love it. And it kind of.

With Peter there, it kind of mirrors Tony, too. Like, where he starts seeing, like, oh, wow, my talents, my technologies, my powers are being used for evil purposes.

It mirrors how Tony at the beginning of the MCU when he learns that his weapons technologies are being used by terrorists and, like. And so I love how that dichotomy is explored. But, yeah, it's just. It's so good. Like, I'm. I.

It's a blast of a movie that also has really powerful themes to go off.

More about the enemy, love. Like, what I loved about it was that, that, that, that, that.

That Peter, he literally just learned the lesson, and he was still able to take a backseat and be like, hey, she needs his help. I need to. The way he stepped up by stepping back, that was beautiful, too. I was just like, here. Here's what my aunt had to say.

I think you will learn from this. That was beautiful.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Man, I wish I could stick around for the rest of the conversation, guys.

I'll throw out part of why I'm really excited to hear from you guys and Andy one day mention X Men are really hard for me.

I.

Literally, the only thing I knew about Jean Grey going into this is, like, I think it has something to do with mind stuff. She might be a good guy, but, like, I know about Dark Phoenix, so I'm not really sure if she's a good guy. Unsure.

So to me, like, I basically was going in, like, you know, the noobs who were like, I don't know anything about this character.

So I'm excited to hear from people who do know more about the character and then maybe hear from Andy, if he's like super mad about how they betrayed her or something like that would be kind of cool. I. I'm curious his thoughts, but yeah,.

I'm really looking forward to his opinion as well. Yeah. Thanks, Joshua. Great seeing you. It was a blast, man.

See you.

Okay, now, Evan, I have been wanting to hear this since last week when you send in the group text, like, okay, I want to talk. Because I really didn't like it. I got to hear.

Okay, well, there you said now before we start recording, like, it was one specific element that threw you off. So I got to hear. You're hot.

Get over it. It is because it is boring, as you know what I'm going to say. I was bored out of my mind. I, I called.

I knew what everything was going to happen and it happened, but I was just. And I loved it. Like, I hate that. I loved it. And I hated it too.

I love it so much because the way it executed some of these, these themes that we are talking about. It's beautiful, it's beautifully done. But the movie itself, it's like watching paint dry. I'm like, what is happening? I was so. I wanted. And for.

I tried, I tried, I tried three times. I saw this movie three times. And I'm just like, nope. This is like, I love hot dogs, but I hate seeing how they're made. And this is how they are made.

And I don't like it, but I love, I love what this film says and the timeliness of it, but I just can't get over that because I have agency and like, it's just kind of, it's kind of like a smack in the face how just boring it is to me. I am generally offended. Like, how do. And I found out why there's a whole mechanic on.

I'm not bored, but I'm, I'm kind of exhausted because there's, there's so many plot points that there's no release from them. And I'm like, okay, that kind of makes sense.

And, and they just keep kind of building, building, building, building, and you are just tired by the end of it. And yes, I just want to pull out my phone and just be like, okay, okay. But. But yeah, but that's it.

I, I, I live in this attention where I love it, but I generally hate it too. Like, I, it's just, it's the cardinal sin. It's like there, there are films that I know that I realize, hey, I will need to meet it on its level.

I can only do that so Much. I can't. I can't. It's. It. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's just boring. It's boring. Like, oh, it's a thing.

I was not expecting that because when you said, you know, like, I thought it was going to be. You had a problem with like jeans. I mean, hey, I will say. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I empathize with you only because that was my reaction to Fantastic Four last year. Like, I, like, I. It was.

I was very much caught in a love 8 there because I loved the production design, I loved the casting, but I thought it was a terribly executed film from. Particularly from an editing standpoint and a directing. And I was bored in that one for that reason.

So, like, I, it had everything in place to be good for me, so that's where I can relate to you. I, Like, I. Again, I did not feel that way at all with this one. I was having a blast from start to finish and. But it. That's really interesting though.

I love. Yeah.

I was just scared as soon as you said that text.

I'm like, I gotta find the characters. Yeah, it's just.

Yeah.

Interesting. Okay. Okay.

And would you say it was primarily.

The.

Predictability that usually.

No, because I can do that for some films and be like, okay, 1, 2, 3. And then it plays out and I usually don't mind it. And here I didn't mind it. Like, that wasn't the problem because I did call it.

I didn't see Sarah coming. The, the sister. I was like, okay. I was like, that's a cool twist. But I figured, oh, and the Oppenheimer, the.

How he's creating the inhibitor that for sure is gonna become the callers and stuff. That was a fun twist. And I kind of freaked out in the theater telling my wife, oh my God, it's the colors. It's the colors.

Yeah.

But no, like, I can forgive it for that because, because, because, because it's. It's because it's good in that sense too. It's. It's just. I don't know, it's hard to explain. There's a Mr. You, Mr. Mr. Know it all on. On, on the.

On the YouTube channel. Has like a 45 minute breakdown on it. And I'm like, what you said, dude, like, that's exactly what it is. That, that, that, that I'm feeling.

But he was able to give it like a 10 out of 10 and whereas I can't. So. So yeah, no, I'm looking forward to now kind of talking what I do like about it.

But, yeah, I'm looking forward to watching it again, Evan, with this critique in mind. You know, it wasn't my. The experience that I had. I wouldn't say I was at the edge of my seat during the whole movie, but I just.

I was enjoying some of the currents that were in the movie and seeing how they played out. So I think that's what. That's what held me, but knowing.

But now I'm going to go back and look at it with some different eyes and see how you don't want.

To spoil it for you.

I'm seeing it again tomorrow because I have a friend who hasn't seen it yet, so I'm. Yeah, like, I. I know I read it. Like, I'm like. He said. He's like, you want to get around? Like, yeah, I'm ready for round three.

He's like, oh, my gosh.

This was the first movie since the Phantom Menace that I saw twice in one day. Twice in one day.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

That's amazing. Yeah.

Who was the third? Did you go the third time by yourself again?

So I went with him.

Okay, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Nice. Yeah. Justin, do you usually go with the, like, with your whole family to these or, like. Yeah, yeah, I do.

I mean, and I must say, there's been a Marvel erosion in my family in that. Yeah, for a while, it was like, me, my three sons, and myself, we would just all go. We were there enjoying ourselves. And now it's.

My youngest is the one who's really hanging in there because the others have gotten a little disillusioned with Marvel.

I'm interested to see if Doomsday brings my eldest back, because Dr. Doom is his first favorite MCU character, and he has been so disappointed in the past with these previous iterations. And so once when I say, hey, buddy, you gonna. You come in with me to see it? I'm interested to see what he. What he says. So we'll see. We'll see.

But, yeah, my youngest and I went a great time. He. He loved it. He. He likes anytime there is a. A scene that is a. A scene from a comic book, you know, a direct adaptation. I mean, my.

My kiddo, he, like, knows them all, so he's naming them in the movie. That one screenshot, you know, so. So that was. That was a lot of fun.

Yeah, so he.

I mean, I honestly, I thought, you know, he might need to jump on here with me because he's. He's. He's. He's. He is once he was a Padawan learner, but now he's become a Jedi, a geekology Jedi.

One of the things that I liked about this movie was this theme of transformation and how we pay attention to our interior movements and how they can lead us. And I'll use the Ignatian language here, how they can lead us to either consolation or desolation, you know, in that. So the.

The inhibitor and that move to inhibit ourself rather than embracing. Sometimes it's kind of this embracing of.

Of nature, and it doesn't even mean that you have to capitulate to everything that you're not feeling internally, but. But to not. To not pretend that it's not there and to actually deal with it in a way that actually brings balance.

I love seeing that over the course of the movie because I do think we see this in our lives. We see it in our spiritual lives. You know, the people who I've seen who just really trying to.

Trying to put false inhibitors up rather than truly seeing, understanding, embracing in a way that you can actually shift the energy and direct the energy in ways and in healthy and positive ways. I enjoyed that journey for Peter across the movie because the false inhibitor has created.

In various ways, kind of spiritually speaking, those false inhibitors have created some pretty awful falls, as I've seen it, where people just kind of break themselves on because of that kind of thing. So I thought that movement was really interesting.

That's super powerful that you say that, because that's why I was very, very quiet. Because I was very quiet with my. With my. With my disappointment or my un. Or. Or what they found. Yeah.

Because I didn't want to ruin that message for my son. I wanted him to pick that up. And I was trying to be clear, be like, hey, I have my opinions, but these lessons, I believe, are very important.

And I would love for you to pick up on this and to think about this, but don't let me be grumpy guy and be like, oh, my dad doesn't like it. So. So, yeah, so, yeah, that is huge to that. To try to eradicate that part of yourself can have so many domino effect to your life that it can just.

And you. And you won't. And you won't be able to see the negativity that.

That it produces because a lot of times it's a tide with being pious and we get all kind of like, oh, yeah, I got my sin controlled. You know, it's like, oh, yeah. Like I do. I. I don't struggle with this. And that it's like, nope. And I've, I came to a point personally where I've.

Through therapy and stuff, I was like, oh, I'm. I'm doing this to myself. And like, and, and how it so, and how it kind of so, so, so, so like so deeply affects your relationships.

It's a whole switching where like, I've learned this, this comedian Pete Holmes, like, he, he, he said once, he goes, yeah, I don't let my sin drive, but, but I don't care that, that it sits in the front seat. I'm like, that's perfect. That's perfect. Because you are aware of it.

You can name it, you can process it and see it for what it's worth, but it's there. It's not over there. It's like, so, yeah, yeah.

In Peter's ability to name, to name it and be, be honest about it is, Is actually what helped him to truly live beyond it. It was the, it was again that, that inhibit, that false inhibitor that was actually creating the struggle.

He thought it was giving him the peace, but it was actually creating or enhancing the struggle. And so in that ability to speak the truth to himself and, you know, and before others is actually what helped him to, to truly be transformed.

So I thought that was good. Between that and it, it reminded me, the movie reminded me a little.

This, this is a little obscure theological nerdy here, but David Bureau wrote a book called Friendship and Ways to Truth, and in which he asserts that truth is, or friendship is not merely about people agreeing, having common agreement around a truth. That's not fundamentally what friendship is.

And that's sometimes, you know, in the life of the church, kind of what we say, like, hey, there's this truth. If we can gather around it, we can be friends.

But what, what Burrell talks about in that book is that that friendship is one of the ways that we come to know the truth 100%. And so, and so I just, I saw the, the, this idea that that truth is relational here. And we, we see that, we see.

So, and I'm thinking about, there are multiple friendship dynamics we could talk about in the movie, but the ways that the relationship between Peter Parker and Jean Gray as they came together, there's a learning of a truth together and seeing of a truth together.

They both saw a truth in their ability to actually engage one another and to relate to one another as these two people who were so alone in the world. And so it's, it brought them to a greater truth, which created a broader territory which I just thought was a beautiful part of the movie.

So the way the movie talks about friendship or kinship and the way that it talks about truth in the way that this idea of memory danced through the movie and what it means to remember in that kind of communion way. Um, what. What does it mean when we. When the body starts coming back together again, which is that.

That slow reconnection between Peter and his friends. Right. You know, and how. And the restorative aspects of that. Man, I just, I loved all of. All of those.

And also, like, the way we respond to trauma, like, in this way. And Peter's response is to go full workaholic and become fully Spider Man. And I'm like, I.

Again, going back to the personal element of how the different eras of Spider man movies have really, like, connected me.

Like, I related so much to the Raimi once I was younger because I was terrible at like, staying focused on trying to juggle multiple things and be all over the place. And then here it's like, no, he's got his stuff together as Spider Man. He just ignores his life as Peter completely.

And I'm like, yeah, I've done that too. Where I go into full workaholic mode when I'm trying to, like, deal with personal trauma and stuff like that. I'm like, yeah, I get that.

And then it just hits on so many of those themes and again, bridging, like, having that connective tissue between him and Jean's journeys. I thought it was. It made so much sense to have her as the antagonist because, yeah, you could have pulled like, I love seeing tombstone here. Mr.

Negative would have been cool, but this was just the perfect way to not only have a great antagonist as a follow up to no Way Home, because no Way Home already did Sinister 6.

And yeah, it's like you could have done another version of one of those iconic villains or a new one, but it just wouldn't have been as formidable a threat when Spider man is at the top of his game here and this.

And like, and I saw some criticism saying that, like, yeah, like, Gene and some of the other characters were like the only missteps here because some thought that it was too overstuffed and too concerned with setting up the Mutant saga. I disagree.

I thought, like, what I loved about this movie so much is it combines some of the best elements of the Raimi trilogy and classic Spider man with all the MCU stuff where it's a lived in world. I love seeing all these characters pop up and not just show up for, you know, just for the sake of it. Like, I think, again, if.

Even though Daredevil is my absolute favorite, if he had shown up here, I think that would have been forced and that would, like. I thought that each character that had, like, had an actual part to play in the story with hall, particularly with Punisher and then with Jean.

And I thought it did a great job of not just setting up the next phase of the mcu, but making it very relevant to the story in this movie.

I like what you said about trauma there, because it's like Spider man almost.

Became Batman, like, with the whole Commissioner Gordon, too, thing. He's.

Yeah. They had Dead Wolf as the Gordon. Yeah. Wow.

I hadn't even thought about that.

But, yeah, and to. To. To continue that thread on trauma, I don't know if they did this on purpose. Probably not.

But to have two of the main characters from that show, the Bear, and to have those kind of themes in this film, I think. I think they knew what they were doing. I think they knew what they were doing. So.

Yeah, well.

And also just by how. Even though Punisher, I thought he got some great comic relief, which is ironic having, you know, making Punish the comic relief character.

But even then, like, I thought they didn't shy away from the darkness of that character and having him as a mirror of what Peter could become if you continue to go down that path. It was, I thought, very important to have Punisher as the.

Because in every MCU Spider man movie, we've had, like, another Avenger or, like, a character, you know, as sort of the main. I don't want to say sidekick, but, like, Whereas, like, mentor figure. It was Tony first, then Mysterio, then Dr.

Strange, and now Punisher and I. Punisher was the perfect one to bring in here, not only for the buddy comedy aspect, but more so for where, oh, they, like, you know, if Peter kept going down this path, he could easily become that and, you know, and throw away his principles. So I thought. And.

And then what I wasn't expecting and I thought would work really well is by the end of the movie, even Frank is questioning his own values because as many people as he has no problem gunning down. This was the first time you actually see him regret almost. Almost killing someone because he does care for Peter. Well, they did kind of.

Well, there was. In Punisher season two, they did of. There was a point where he thought he had killed a couple of civilians, but it was a manipulation by Billy Russo.

But still, it's like, other than that, we hadn't really seen him have any remorse for killing or almost killing. And this, you know, I thought provided a really interesting kind of roadblock in his path going forward. And I would love to see more of this duo.

Yeah. He becomes a soldier at the foot of the cross. Right. You know, after Peter has made this sacrifice is like whoa. His. The ground was. Was shaken and for.

For Peter Punisher and. And it did help to open his eyes up to something new.

Yeah.

And how about that? I heard that there was going to be that there's a. That there's a deleted scene that. That Rosario Dawson, she is the one that saved his suit.

I saw that.

Yeah.

Everything. So yeah, that would have been cool.

To have in there.

That would have been cool.

And that moment at the end, they're all cheering and he is all. And he is inside of it and that little boy does a little thwip thwip. You know, it's like, oh, so good.

There's. There was also speculation maybe that kid is Miles. I don't know. Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, yeah.

But like there was that and I was kind of hoping that because I like, you know, if I have any criticisms, the post credit scene I could have done without. I know they had do a doomsday tie in but it was kind of. That was whatever.

But I kind of was hoping for him to see the woman in the apartment building again and be like, sorry, I didn't get it. You get your name and she's like, I'm Gwen. You know, like I was like that.

Would have been the relationship with Ned. How that, that and how they left it on that note was like, oh, I see what you're saying now. It's like a film is how it ends. And they are.

They are ending it on the relationship between him and Ned. So, so yeah, yeah.

Well, again they're like the power of. Of. Of friendship.

It.

It's that that moment reminded me of the power of friendship and like just whatever the. The what the memories that ground us.

So it reminded me of when I'm doing a pastoral care visit for someone who is in a memory unit and the moment I say start praying the Lord's Prayer, bam. Like they just. They're locked in.

They don't remember who I am, don't remember many things, but say the Lord's Prayer locked in with me or if I start seeing an amazing grace, locked in with me. Right. There's just these, these things where that are. Have become so deeply a part of us that, that even the things that have robbed us.

Can't rob us of it. Yeah. And so just that handshake and how it just went back into it, I was like, oh man, that is so good. How. Yeah, even.

Even the, even this cosmic magic cannot rob friendship is more powerful than even that analogy.

Yeah, for sure.

That's for sure.

I get. Oh, Evan did have already made my quote on Sunday into a meme. I was. I knew he would, but I, I did the like, one day we will.

There will be a day when grown men won't cry during a Spider man movie. But it is not the same.

Yeah, I couldn't cry. Like, I couldn't cry because of, because of my problem with it.

And the first thing that I thought of was this is a super kind of like a deep cut or kind of niche. But do you guys know that. That, that.

That that's a fan made animated metalcore song where they critique the sequel trilogy for Star wars, saying that they. That they. That they should have cried.

But.

But, but they ruined my. My, my Star wars for me. That's what happened to me. It's like I want to cry here. I want to feel these emotions. I want to, but I can't. I can't.

Like, I should have cried. Yeah, right on, right on, right on.

I covered it for you, Evan. So I'm good?

Yeah, yeah, you crack. Kevin cried for all.

Twice. Sadie Sink has done that to me all the time. Because the, the, like the scene wherein stranger things. Well, she technically does die, Max.

Like temporarily dies. That. I mean that. That scene wrecked me every time. But then all. But it was the same in here when, when she and Peter come together.

And that's another point that, that's cool that you bring that up. That's another example of the power of your.

Of your community and the, the power like the good that can come from you being vulnerable to your friends with. Where they know what music you like. So when you go get caught by some demon, they know what song to play to bring you back.

You know, it's like you like.

Yeah.

So.

Right, right. Yep, yep.

Mercedes Sink was cool. Jean Gray and the whole. Yeah, what's that song? That. That is like, I'm a man, but I'm an island or something like that.

I was trying to think of that old song. It's like from the 70s or something. I don't know.

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but okay.

But yeah, you know, I just. I'm a huge X Men fan, so it was great to see part of this origin story emerge and you discover why.

One of the reasons Jean Grey values friendship and community is because of. Of what transpired in this. I love that. The other thing that I love there was just a little bit of a thank you. Finally.

This has been annoying me for so long is Peter Parker's comment to the Hulk. I didn't know you could get that big. I mean, funny in some way, but I was like, finally, thank you for not a tamp again. Like a Hulk. Hulk.

Yeah, you're in that Hulk form. It, like, I want that whole form to fight Thanos again. Can we have a rematch? Because.

Yes. Right. I. I feel like Hulk has been one of the most inconsistent characters in the mcu.

Like, I've always loved Mark Ruffalo in the role, but, like, they made him way too comedic for a while there and kept on getting down. And I'm like, yes, finally make him terrifying again where. Where, like, you don't mess with this and make it a reason for why.

And the afraid the savage Hulk probably knows Peter is. That's pretty. That's. That's 80. That's an interesting twist I didn't see coming.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was good. I mean, I. So I was.

And how big his hand was compared to Spiderman. It's been like knowing they did such a great, great job at putting the scale of how big he was compared to his body.

I was like, his hand took up, like, half of his whole body. I was like, holy moly. Yeah, this dude is huge.

Oh, man. Yeah. It was just that moment for me. That whole scene for me was like, when somebody, like, adjusts a picture on the wall.

I have a picture.

Okay. Thank you. This has been. I've been waiting for this.

You bring up the Hulk and it, like, the way, like, I related to. I was not expecting, like, the way that Bruce Banner, the way he freaked out at the end where he said, what did I do? Did I hurt somebody?

That's powerful. That's powerful because I. I felt that in my first. My first episode that I did or that I had for my. My psychosis episode.

That's the first thing that I said. I said, where's my daughter? Did I hurt my daughter? It freaked me out. It freaked me out. And I know the power of, like, blacking out and being like.

And kind of losing control like that. And to show up and like, oh, shoot. Oh, shoot. What happened? What happened? And they. I was not expecting to feel that. And then kind of.

Kind of like went back into the story. I was like, that was hard. Yeah. And then we don't know where he went, so I don't know.

Yeah. Well, that's. That's also going to be really interesting to see where the. Yeah. Where did this. Where does the Hulk go next?

Just general this whole journey.

Rematch.

She Hulk.

So much. Anyone who thinks superhero movies aren't, are like too immature. I'm like, look at all the like, theology and philosophy we're getting.

They are as, as, as Jill said they are. Well, they are the modern day myth. They are the Odyssey.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And absolutely one day.

Awesome.

Funny story. So when he's fighting the hand. Okay, hold up the hand. Completely wasted here. Like, completely wasted. They're just there to look cool.

And why are they teaming up with the DoD like, whatever. But they were cool. But when they were in the last fight, when they were.

When they were doing a Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon stuff, I remember because I made that connection to what Joel said. How. How they are modern day myths.

And I remember when I saw Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, I had a similar feeling that I felt because for a split second I thought that people in real life, they could fly and they could fight like that. So I had a kind of like, deconstruction from that too.

Wait,.

They can't do this.

And you're like, rip off. People can't actually do this. What is this? Well, guys, this has been a blast.

I know we're ran out of time here and I don't want Joshua's computer to explode when he edits, but any quick closing thoughts before we sign off for the evening?

I'm not gonna lie. Like, I'm kind of excited for Doomsday.

But as much as the problem that I had with this film, I'm cool with if a doomsday completely flops because we have the setup of the X Men, which was greatly done here. So, yeah, I'm kind of cool with that. One more thing I wanted to get clear because I wasn't sure. So the.

So what I picked up on was that the Lexmen, they probably do not.

Exist in this universe.

Right.

That's kind of what I picked up on. Okay.

Yeah. Or not. Yeah, yeah, not yet.

I was expecting a Professor X to. To take off the Cerebro helmet. It gotta show up. I'm like, oh, okay.

Yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah, right.

Yeah,.

Right, right. But that's the big man. It's like mutation clearly exists in the mcu.

Like I said, not even counting the Fox X Men, but like mutants in this universe, basically they exist as to what area. Like, you know, is Professor X already there? How is that gonna go out?

Like, I don't think we're getting all the answers there until after Secret wars or during Secret wars, however that plays out. So they exist. But yeah, I don't think the team is formed yet. And that's what's going to. What the reboot movie is going to be about.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The only thing I have to say, a closing thought since we're talking about X Men is please do not kill off an iteration of Patrick Stewart's Professor X another time on the big screen for me. How many times?

Madness. Yeah, that one was hard to watch.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, this could be.

Yeah. Because we've got. Yeah. Last stand Logan. Multiversimatis. Yeah. I mean, come on. How many times do you have to work hard?

Please, let's not do this again.

Yeah, please.

Okay. Yeah.

Also, if any one, like, I'm excited to see a new iteration of the X Men and as much as I love the Fox movies, like, yes, we're bringing on to something else after Doomsday, Secret Wars. But if they wanted to carry one over, not even Wolverine, like I want to say, Jackson, I'm okay with doing a different Wolverine.

I just want them to carry Channing Tatum over because I'm just like, I can't see anyone else playing Gambit. So if they want to wreck Iron, use him for the MCU by all,.

Whoever they have, we'll take it.

We'll take it.

If it's a team of people or there's a one guy that is, that's a writing the content and feed dialogue for, for, for Nightcrawler in X Men 97. Bring him on here. Like we want that, we want that vibe because they are, they are 100%. They are throwing strikes with that character, man. It's there.

Oh, so good.

Yeah.

Bring all The X Men 97 writers over to the movies because they know what they're doing.

They do, they do.

Oh, cool. Fun times.

Awesome. Well guys, this has been a blast in a two parter tonight. Absolutely loved it. And for our listeners, viewers out there, please check us out.

You know, thank you for tuning in here and like rate review, subscribe. We always appreciate it. Tell your friends about the show if you like us and what are your thoughts.

We want to hear from you about Spider man, about Comic Con news, what you're geeking out on. So please hit us up and follow us on social media. And remember, we are all a chosen people. A kingdom of priests. Peace out, y'.

All. Sam.