Christian Ashley and Justin Coleman dive into the heart of Starfleet Academy in this episode, exploring how it shapes the heroes of the Federation across various Star Trek series. They kick things off by dissecting the Academy's role not just as a training ground for future officers, but as a crucible for character development, cultivating virtues like courage and diplomacy that are essential for leadership in space. The duo reflects on iconic characters like Kirk and Picard, highlighting how their experiences at the Academy molded their decision-making and ethical frameworks. With a mix of witty banter and insightful commentary, they discuss the influence of lesser-known figures like Boothby, the Academy's gardener, who embodies mentorship and support in ways that resonate deeply with the cadets. Listeners will get a fresh perspective on the interplay of military and exploratory values within Starfleet, alongside a few laughs, as they navigate the complexities of what it truly means to be a part of this iconic organization.

The captivating dialogue between Christian Ashley and Justin Coleman in this episode of Systematic Geekology delves into the profound impact of Starfleet Academy on the Star Trek narrative and its characters. The episode opens with an entertaining exchange about their current geeky obsessions, lightening the mood and showcasing their infectious camaraderie. Justin eloquently posits that Starfleet Academy is not merely a training ground for starship pilots and scientists, but a crucible for character formation, instilling virtues such as responsibility, diplomacy, and the spirit of exploration in its cadets. He argues that the Academy's teachings prepare individuals to face ethical dilemmas that arise in the complex interplay of interstellar politics, asserting that these lessons resonate throughout the series, particularly in the lives of iconic characters.

Throughout their discussion, Christian and Justin share personal anecdotes that highlight their deep connection to Star Trek, revealing how the series has shaped their understanding of leadership and morality. They reflect on the ways in which characters like Kirk and Picard embody the principles taught at the Academy, with Kirk’s rebellious nature and Picard’s ethical steadfastness serving as examples of how their backgrounds influence their decision-making. The hosts also emphasize the role of mentorship, using the character Boothby to illustrate how seemingly minor figures can have a significant impact on the lives of future leaders. This exploration of mentorship adds a rich layer to their analysis, reinforcing the idea that true leadership is about nurturing others and fostering growth.

As the episode progresses, they tackle the Kobayashi Maru, the infamous no-win scenario that tests cadets' character under pressure. Justin explains its purpose in revealing how individuals confront failure and make choices in dire circumstances, while Christian considers how modern interpretations of the test could reflect today’s complexities in interstellar relations. Their light-hearted banter enlivens the conversation, making philosophical concepts engaging and thought-provoking. This episode serves as a reminder of Star Trek's enduring legacy, highlighting its commitment to exploring fundamental human truths through the lens of science fiction and encouraging listeners to reflect on their own values in the face of adversity.

Takeaways:

• Starfleet Academy is not just a school, but a place that shapes the virtues of curiosity, courage, and responsibility essential for future officers in Starfleet.
• Christian and Justin dive deep into how the Academy has influenced iconic characters like Kirk and Picard, exploring their complex moral dilemmas and growth.
• The hosts emphasize the importance of mentorship, as showcased by characters like Boothby, who, despite being a gardener, plays a pivotal role in shaping future leaders.
• The Kobayashi Maru test serves as a crucial metaphor for character development, revealing how individuals respond to pressure and the concept of no-win scenarios in leadership.
• In discussing the evolution of Starfleet Academy, they highlight how it encourages inclusivity among diverse species, reflecting the core principles of the Federation.
• The episode wraps up with a humorous take on how modern iterations of the Kobayashi Maru could be revamped to reflect current alliances and challenges in the Star Trek universe.

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Starfleet Academy Shape the heroes of the Federation. We're going to be asking this question and a lot more in today's episode of Systematic Ecology. We are the priests of the Geeks.

I'm your host, Christian Ashley, joined today by an esteemed gentleman, a lover of Star Trek as well, Justin Coleman. How's it going, Justin?

I'm doing well, my friend. How are you?

I'm doing all right. We're going to have fun and part of that is we're going to talk about what we're geeking out on. Justin, what have you been geeking out on recently?

Oh, man. So I am one excited for this he man movie. I'm just. I'm ready for it. Want to see it. So geeking out in anticipation of this movie.

Also, I think I've shared before that I have been following this show for all mankind and I'm really interested in how this season is progressing. So, yeah, those are the things I'm thinking, what about you?

And my dad's been trying to get me to watch that one. It's on my list. Have you watched the 80s masters of the Universe film by canon?

Oh, yes, I know the whole movie, maybe by heart.

That's never like, been my franchise, but it's like every now and then I'll watch the movie or an episode. It's fun. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to the movie too. But I've actually gotten back into Pokemon Go very recently.

I was helping my brother move in Chicago to a new place. And you know, there's something they have there that they don't have here in rural Denver, North Carolina, and that's Pokestops. So you know what?

Why not? It's been fun. I had to stop years ago because I was spending money on it and I have an addictive personality. So now am I in a better place?

Can I stop myself? That's kind of a testing ground for me too. I also get to walk, which is something I need to be doing anyways for exercise.

Well, I hope it goes well. I hope you don't fall off the pokey wagon. You're able to keep it in between the line.

Like you're all my sponsors now. You're going to hold me accountable. Yeah, Christian spending money. All right, so getting into this premise as well.

We're doing the faces behind us for we've done multiple characters now we're actually doing it for an organization. So many ways we could have gone through this. This is not a show about the Starfleet Academy show.

I'M sure we'll probably bring it up at some point in time. I'm sure the opinions will abound on everything that happened there because we got one more season after this. Yes, as it got canceled.

So, Justin, would you like to explain to the good people what Starfleet Academy is?

Starfleet Academy is one of the greatest formation engines in all of science fiction. I'm going to lay stake to that claim. I mean, you might think about in Star wars, the Jedi Academy and how that works across time.

Starfleet Academy also looms large.

It's not just a school where you learn, you go to learn how to navigate or fly a ship, pilot a ship, or to recite all the regulations of Starfleet as well as Jean Luc Picard. But it's a place where you learn how to become a certain kind of person under pressure.

It is meant to shape your curiosity and courage and diplomacy and sacrifice and responsibility. All these kinds of virtues that will make a person a graduate of Starfleet Academy, not only a good officer, but a good person.

And you see those values coming up over and over again in Star Trek, particularly in Next Generation Forward, all the shows that were produced after that. And so, you know, the, the, and so it, it forms the best captains in the room in, in various ways.

Not just, not just because they're the, the smartest, you know, but they're, and they're all very bright, these, these captains. And that's really how they lead ethically when, when the ethics of the situation becomes complicated. Starfleet Academy teaches you how to do that.

Think of it like your ultimate college. Like, yeah, we've gone to the stars, we've experienced other races and now they're coming here to Earth. We're learning.

We're in this one big happy federation which now has its, its creaks and cracks every now and then. But you know what? That's, that's part of the fun. We don't have a perfect system here, as much as Roddenberry wanted to make one. But you know what?

It' thing, he's not in charge anymore. Rest in peace. But we, we still have this, this wonderful system of, hey, we have to learn about xenobiology now.

It's not just human anatomy we have to care about. We have to care about history. That isn't just Earth history. You have to care about mapping planets out. How do you do it responsibly?

Is the captain supposed to beam down immediately? Never. But you know what? We wouldn't have a show otherwise. All right, let's, let's, learn about how, how can we work together?

Well, so like it's kind of one of the ultimate tests of can you work with other people as you are self increasing your own knowledge kind of ways. And there's multiple ways they do that. Like we don't get everything shown of like, hey, this class is taught by ex professor.

Like every now there are mentions every now and then. So there aren't too many main characters of a Starfleet Academy in that sense as far as like leaders and directors and the like.

But we get enough in the show especially you know, post Wrath of Khan where we're really kind of introduced to the concept of, you know, training a Starfleet officer before they head off into. To go where no man has gone before or no one has gone before as we want to say now.

So before we go any further, Justin, like what is your history with like Star Trek as a whole?

Yeah, so Star Trek is arguably where I learned to really love sci fi. I mean Star wars were working in kind of a parallel for me, but.

But in those days Star Trek is where you could invest in a kind of a serial way, right? You know, watching, watching episodes.

So I learned to love Star Trek with my, one of my older brothers who sat me down to watch episodes of the original series and talk about why he loved Kirk and Spock and Bones and you know, all the rest of In Uhura and all the rest of the bridge crew. So then. And I loved it because I wanted to hang out with my brother. And this was one of the ways that we could, we could do it.

And then when the Next Generation came out, I was primed and ready for it. And boy, that became my show.

It such that to the extent possible I would myself but also help my family to be home in time to watch it when it premiered every week. So I remember times in the car, in the, in the, in the station wagon with my parents saying It's. We got 10 minutes left.

Like dad, could we drive any faster? I don't want to miss the beginning. So yeah, that was my. And I love Next. I love Next Generation.

Even still today it is like a, it's like a comfort food of tv. And so if I'm just milling around the house or just wanna. It's been a tough week throwing some TNG and relax and have a good time.

And that throws me back just to days of like before streaming and everything before like next day releases. You had to be there. You literally had to be there. You had to choose which channel you were gonna Watch.

And you had limited options then, but still, you had to choose that one. And you had to choose to be there at the time it was gonna premiere. Otherwise you'd have to wait for reruns or you'd have to just, like, go.

The next morning, I didn't get to see what happened.

I mean, I had my. My. One of my best friends, Mark. He and I would watch every single time together.

And, like, as soon as the episode was over, we pick up the phone, hey, what do you think about this? This and this? And I never wanted to be the one who's like, dude, I missed it. What. What happened?

Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah. For me, like you said with Star Wars, I can't really. Like, there's not even a time in my life I can imagine that this wasn't a part of my life.

I grew up with these and, like, the whole Trekkie versus Star wars fan, like, it was never a thing. Yeah. I still prefer Star wars overall, but I was like, why do I have to choose? Like, I love both of these. My dad was a huge Trekkie growing up.

He watched the. When it was in syndication because he was just a little boy. He would always fight with his sister because, like, she would always want to watch.

Like, I think it was like a Davy Crockett show that was on at the same time Star Trek would run, and it would be like, who would get to win. Like, whenever his dad wanted to watch a baseball game or something, like, there would always be conflicts between them.

But growing up, TNG was airing. It started three years before I was born, so I didn't really. I was.

Would watch it with him as a kid, but not really understand anything until I got to a certain age. We watched the original series together. Beat Space 9, Voyager, eventually Enterprise.

When that came out, it's just kind of one of those things that has always brought us closer together, and it's how I know I'm the favorite, because no other child has watched Star Trek and enjoyed it outside of my sister for the movies, because she just finds Chris Pine hot. But that's it.

Oh, man. So good. The origin stories of Star Trek. Yeah, I mean, I was in. I was in elementary school when TNG came out, so it was my.

And I still have in my office at the church, my full Enterprise D bridge set and bridge officers there. And so when anyone comes to my office, they see all this religious stuff. Then on this big table, they're like, so, what is this?

And I said, ah, here is this. Helps you to Know that my priesthood is also to the geeks.

I should probably one day film and just put on YouTube or something. Like my dad's room right now, he's got all the different ships and action figures. That's just the Star Trek stuff.

He's also got like, you know, Hercules and Space Ghost and all this other stuff up there. It's like, you know what, that you couldn't mistake that this man is a geek. That's how his room was when he was teaching. It was same thing.

He had posters all over the walls for health and PE class. You know, Marvel and Star Trek and Star wars and everything. It's like. Yep, no mistaking it. Yeah, I know where I get it from. I get it, honest.

Yeah, right.

All right, so I'm going to ask a difficult question next because it kind of breaks everything. But that's one of the good things. As we've noticed several times before, these things aren't here.

The people that don't help build us up are there or the character we're talking about isn't there. Like the story would break. So, Justin, if Starfleet Academy doesn't exist, how does the story of Star Trek progress at all?

So if Starfleet Academy didn't exist, I think that the, the Federation would be more Earth centric and more militaristic.

Okay.

And so, so it's like one of these, you know, parallel universe kind of, kind of things within.

Not full mirror, but not exactly better.

Yeah. Right. So, because I, I think that the, for me, Starfleet Academy represents.

The, represents virtue formation that moves characters beyond fear of the other and toward this heart, toward exploration. And you see even within Starfleet Academy that is this tension in between the two. Who are we?

But I think that without that kind of virtue formation, what we find in the, in the human character at least is that we tend. Our fear moves us to tend toward militarism. And so it, you know, would we reach for the stars? Yes. Would we have done that?

Would we be as open and inclusive of others as we journey through space? I'm not sure.

And so especially as you encounter groups like the Romulans and Klingons kind of early on who are more militaristic, we could have very easily just matched energy.

You saying that actually prompted something I should have added to the outline. So I'm going to throw it here. Is Starfleet a military?

Well, yeah. I mean, is. See, that's the thing. It is a, it is a military in a sense.

I mean, it's, it's Patterned and it's naming of ships and it's how it ranks its officers, all these things. It's a military organization that is choosing to allow it's curiosity and exploration to win out.

So we're on the, on the personality test on the Myers Briggs. It's like, it is like one of those, like I'm a close T or a close J is right at the edge. And so it is, it's closer. So it gets close to 50, 50.

What you see at least in the, in the next generation moving forward is this sense of we are trying to be, trying to make this like a 60, 40 split or 55 because it is 55, 45 because we want to say that we lean toward exploration but it doesn't take long before the militarism really has to. But we always have to be. We want to lean toward exploration but we must always be prepared, be militant. That's I think the way it casts it.

And so because that balance is so close and seemingly those things that they teach that, that Picard will, will speak eloquently about, related to Starfleet Academy, that is what makes you lean toward exploration. I mean without that I think we'd, we'd be tempted strongly to move the other way.

Yeah, what's that? I start fleet of military. Is it just exploration? I think that's a false dichotomy. I think it's both.

I think it's a group of explorers who have a military presence because if you're going to be intelligent, if you're going to be shrewd, you need to have guns in order to protect yourself against people who have guns. You know, like phasers, torpedoes exist because other people may not be as friendly as you are.

And while you having weapons doesn't mean you're not friendly, it means, oh, just in case someone else isn't friendly, I can protect and defend myself and other people so that they don't have to go through it. Yes, it is a military, it is also a group of explorers. Both can be true, both are, can be parts of Starfleet.

That's why I really like the introduction of the Makos in Enterprise because it was one of those things. It's like, oh, it just makes sense.

There was a video game for Voyager Elite Force where you had a group of call them the hazard team who was prepared for military stuff. That makes sense. Why hasn't this been here? Well, it's because some people are very afraid of putting that in Star Trek and I get it.

Because you want this to be an optimistic show. There's some idealism that should be there about how, you know, where things should go.

You know, Rod Barry had as many quirks and one of them is he imagined that humans had evolved beyond such silly things and the like. And you know what? The man gave us Star Trek.

I will make fun of him, but I also praise him at the same time I, I think we're still wrestling with that concept and DS9 is probably the best that we've done with like showing that there is a military here beside behind exploration. So like both can be true. Like have the desire to better yourself, have the desire to seek out new life and new civilizations.

But also, oh, what if this new civilization happens to be the Romulan Star Empire? Well, we kind of need to make sure they don't take us over. So let's have a military in place while also explore.

You know the. So Gene Roddenberry gave us the mirror universe in the original series. Right. And so the mirror universe features the Terran Empire.

And I do think this in Gene's imagination really was the part of the answer to the question. So like if Starfleet doesn't exist with some of the virtues that Gene Roddenberry thought should be there.

Yeah.

In some ways I do think that the creation of Starfleet Academy, you know, later really is to say this is what, what's the school that Gene, if Gene Roddenberry created a school, what would it be like? Well, it's gonna be something like the Starfleet Academy. But what if you don't have that? What if you don't have these Roddenberry and ideals?

You get the Terran Empire. And the Terran Empire again is, you know, they're more Earth centric and, and just militaristic like about conquest.

And so in some ways I guess I'm agreeing with Gene.

In a lot of ways I guess I'm agreeing with Gene in this in that I think that is a result of our lesser selves because we've seen it over and over again in Earth history where the desire for conquest and control as, as a reaction to fear is, is so high that you know, my gosh, let's just take over the world. That's the mentality we struggle with.

No, I'm with you.

Like if there is no Starfleet Academy in the way the sense of the Federation exists, we're working together, these different races, different planets, I. Something would replace it because you still need an Academy, you still need stuff.

But it wouldn't be Starfleet and I don't think humanity would have gone full Terran Empire, but there still would have been aspects that would have been. Nope, that wouldn't be Star Trek.

Humanity would they have conquered Ryza or Andor or Andoria or what have you could be and thinking that themselves wise. So what Starfleet Academy does is it helps build up the central premise. We are a federation.

A federation is a group of people working together for common interests.

And Academy is one of the best places to see that because you will literally see there's a human, there's an Andorian, there's a Telluride way in the future. I think it was a lower decks. I think we saw a Borg at one point in time.

It's like, you know what, that's great because that's what it teaches us is more cosmopolitan in that sense of everyone coming together. Because we've met each other now we need to like, what do we do with that?

Do we just go our separate ways or do we actually interact with one another, learn about each other? And I think that's what Starfleet Academy does really well.

So moving on from there, another question we've been asking is like, would we rather be the mentor or the influencer in this series? So idea being, would rather be a teacher professor at Starfleet Academy or rather be the person learning in Starfleet Academy?

My, my, my. I am.

You know, this is part a, a phase of life question because, you know, I, at different points in life I'd, well, certainly would have loved to have been a cadet. You know, at other points I would have enjoyed being the gardener. And, and you know, at this point I do, I think I'm at the, at the, I'm.

I'd like to be a professor of the Academy, but I could, but I could see myself being happy being a gardener, you know, so I'm at this, I'm at this, maybe this edge right now. I think it really would be fun to be a part of that active.

Formation and we'll get to the gardener in a little bit.

Yeah, yeah.

So one thing I've learned with age in my time in seminary is that I probably said this before. It bears repeating. I love learning. I hate being a student.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like that there's a structure, a rigidity that's supposed to be inherent in becoming a student.

Like a professor is the one who sets where you're supposed to, what you're supposed to learn, how you're supposed to learn it, what book you're supposed to read. And there's nothing wrong with that. And that's why I'd prefer to be the professor, all things considered.

But I have learned over time that I'm just rebellious when it comes to someone else telling me to do something and that's something I have to kill inside myself daily. But it'd be a lot easier not to do that if I wasn't the student.

Yeah, right, right. Because you get to learn. You still get to learn if you're in the.

If you're a professor, you know, you've got to be actively an active, lifelong learner.

But I choose what I want to do. That's the main difference. No one told me you have to study this. So, like.

So, you know, I'd love to be like, maybe an historian or religious studies or something like that at Starfleet Academy because, you know, that's. I don't really focus too much on it. But like, you have all these different alien races.

They've got to have religions and cultures that, like, they're not all Monol. List. They're not just a planet of hats. Like, like, what is. What is Vulcan spirituality compared to Klingon or what have you.

Like, that'd be so much fun to learn. Like, I'd study that all day long, obviously, you know, holding still to my faith and then like, comparing, contrasting. But like.

Yeah, to teach someone else about, you know, this is how they think, this is why they think the way they do, though. That'd be so much fun.

Oh, man. 100%. I'm with you.

All right. All right. So this is kind of a broader one.

So like, we mentioned some stuff with Picard earlier, but like, main characters, time in the academies, you know, Kirk and beyond. Like what. Anything that kind of sticks out to you, how Starfleet helped shape them and who they are. Academy.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, certainly Picard is. Is the. The strongest one in my thinking. I mean, you really.

I jump from Picard almost to some of these newer iterations in recent years of Star Trek where they do spend some of the most time really talking about Starfleet's influence. But I should pause and say. And I know we're going to. I think we're going to talk about this. But you know, it.

Through the movies, you do get this sense of Jim Kirk and at least a moment in his Starfleet formation. Yeah, that just. So I won't. We'll. We'll pause. Kobayashi Maru test is. Is. And how it. It formed his character. And so you start to.

Once you know about the Kobayashi Maru. Then you kind of look back across the original series and you're like, okay, I get, I get this guy even more.

And this, this lack of belief in no win scenarios. Kirk is this person who.

So if the, if the next generation, the way the Enterprise moves through the universe through their moments of serendipity, but just moments of smarts, I mean, these folks are, they're, they're smart, they stick by their principles and that gets them through. Yeah, in the original series, Kirk is like bending the universe to his will. I mean, that is seemingly how you get through these scrapes and.

But we see that part of, there's just something that was part of him and you see how he engages Starfleet Academy, still bending the rules to himself. So, yeah, something about Kirk in, in a, in a different kind of way as I, that I think about Picard when I think about Starfleet Academy.

But what about you? What are some, who are some of the people you think in mind?

Like, obviously Starfleet Academy was like, we're building up on the idea over time. There wasn't the serialization of the original series. Like, there was no, like, set plan. There was no, like, everything had to.

Because that's how viewership worked back in the day. Like you, you couldn't expect your audience to always know what happened last episode. So you had to write almost like every episode was a new one.

But with Kirk's decision making, like, in hindsight you could retcon the idea of, well, that's why he does what he does, because he believes so much in the ideals of the Federation that he learned during his time in the Academy to protect these things and yeah, bending the rules. He's a maverick. That's just who he is. But he wasn't a maverick just to be a maverick.

He was a maverick because sometimes rules got in the way of protecting people. They got in the way of doing the right thing.

Right.

And protecting his people. And those are core values he would have been taught in Starfleet Academy and help make him who he was. I'm trying to think of other things.

You know, Janeway's time in the Academy, she kind of mentions talking about another character we're about to get to. Like, learning under his tutelage how to care for things is very huge for her. It's a nice humanizing moment for Janeway.

Cisco talks about a time where he was like, bullied by a Vulcan. I think it was like Saval or something like that.

He was in a wrestling club there, which, like, hey, they have Clubs, you know, this not just a school, like naturally schools would have stuff like that. That helps humanize him, honestly. Kind of humanizes the Vulcan too. In that episode with the baseball one that they do. It's a really fun one.

In the middle of a war, we can have a nice fun holographic baseball game. And I want it does these small moments.

We don't really get too many scenes inside of Starfleet Academy outside of Wrath of Khan really before we get to new, newer series. But what we see is the after effects of their time.

And they are who they are because they were taught this way, because they learned this way, because they challenged rules that were placed by the Academy and the like.

Yeah.

And we wouldn't have the series without that.

Yeah, 100%.

I mean, even as you move forward and you think about Pike, Christopher pike and yeah, this, it is forming the people to be moral beings moving through the universe. And that is the heart of Starfleet. When the Starfleet loses that, it loses itself.

Yeah, yeah. Speaking of a moral being, like not really an unsung hero if you're a fan, like if you really know, you know, but like Boothby,.

My boy Boothby.

Someone from Starfleet Academy. Not a professor, but the gardener. Take it away, Justin Booth B is.

Like the freaking Dumbledore of Star Trek. And he doesn't have to be headmaster. So this is.

No, this is the why I, you know, I say like want to be a professor, but could see myself as the gardener. Like, you know, at a certain point, Booth be.

Represents to me humility and how this humble person who was never in charge still loomed largest in the lives of some of the characters that we respect the most in Star Trek. And that's, you know, so he. So in a way, like mentorship, even power, like turn some of it on its. On its. On its head.

So I enjoy that he is this small character, but this who's. Whose mentorship looms large.

So not an admiral, not a captain groundskeeper who found a way to make people feel seen and no, I mean because he's on the margins in some way of this thing. And so that some, that this person who's on the margins of it managed to make folks who were more enfranchised than the entire system of Starfleet.

He made them feel seen rather than seeing him. He saw them and how powerful that was. How. How he knew everybody, everybody singing.

Booth B is talking about folks in different classes and what they did. And he's. Boothby is showing up to the games and matches And Boothby has this, has a ministry there. He's the chaplain.

He's the spiritual guy of, of Starfleet. I don't know of any other chaplains that have ever been referenced.

Maybe there have been some that I missed, but he is this chaplain and spiritual guide of, of this group. And he, he listens. He listens to their confessions.

He.

He listens enough to know who they are. And so he leads, he shapes, he shapes generations of officers by listening and paying attention. And that feels so very spiritual to me.

You know, I'm a person who follows Ignatian spiritual practices. You know, this idea of spiritual companionship. And. So it's just. So I feel that this is who Booth B is. He's a spiritual director of Starfleet.

And anyway, so this is what I love about Boothby. And so Star Trek really understands something here.

And I think there's a wisdom of putting him in there because he's got the ability to speak truth to power. So where does Picard learn that the, the, the, the first. The Starfleet officer's first responsibility is to the truth?

Maybe he learned that in the class, but if, if I'm a betting man, he learned that from Boothby.

Boothby is kind of an excellent litmus test for other characters and how they react to him because as you stated, like, he's not their professor, he's not their leader. But one of. A great indicator of, of a person is how do they treat the people who are supposedly beneath them.

And we see Picard, we see Janeway talk it, speak very fondly of him as someone like they didn't have to listen to a thing he said.

They didn't have to look at the gardens that he cared for or even work with them in any way, but they chose to because they saw value not only in him, but also in what he had to impart. Yeah, any of their professors could have said the same things as him, but chances are they probably didn't.

Professors sometimes, and pastors sometimes can sometimes get in our own way, we. We have a message, hey, do this. And that's the right thing to do. Like, otherwise we wouldn't be saying it.

But sometimes we miss the person in the midst of all that. And sometimes it takes someone who isn't in that position of authority to look, say, hey, you said this absolutely right.

Have you considered this or what about what's going on in your own life?

We need Booth Bees like to help supplement lessons from professors, from pastors and the like, to make sure things run more smoothly to make sure people are cared for.

And that's what he does really well, not just for his garden, but for the people who are willing to listen to him take time out of their day to be with him. It's not like he's out some philosopher being like, oh, listen to my words. It's like, no, no, no, I'm spending time with you.

We're getting to know each other. And while you're here, here's what I've learned over my long life.

Yes. Boothby is helping people return to Eden. And well, I mean we, as we think about in the scriptural tradition, right.

You know, the garden of Eden or Jesus being mistaken as a gardener post resurrection, you know, so we, we, we tend to think of gardens in these very spiritual ways. And, and those who form gardens intend gardens to be having some bit of a divine element to them or being ones who move toward the divine.

Well, this is what does. I mean, Star Trek is. Its spirituality is interesting and you know, quite a bit of it in Deep Space Nine. Nine.

But in other parts of it it's like, oh, well, hey, you know, secular humanism, here we go. But, but Booth be represents something spiritual.

And, and yeah, that idea that, you know, sometimes what changes us, sometimes the people who change us the most are not people were in charge because, you know, apart from the names that we know and love, Admiral Janeway, Admiral Picard, different people who at a certain point.

And Picard as chancellor for a bit of the, of the carefully academy, at least according to the newer Picard series, for the most part there is not any other or insert incurred, you know. So think about people who achieve the rank of Admiral at some point other than the ones that we know and love.

There's nobody that we esteem in Star Trek leadership. When you think about it like these admirals in the original series and the movies.

And they should always cause problems.

They're always causing problems, always. So these are not the people that we're looking toward or you know, for any kind of moral authority. But Booth be.

Yeah, yeah, all right, I know we're going on long. Oh, yes, we, we have to talk.

Okay.

About the Kobayashi Maru. Justin, can you explain the Kobayashi Maru?

The Kobayashi Maru is a test that all cadets take and they are put. It's meant to expose them and expose their character in these impossible conditions. So it is a no win scenario.

You're there, folks are coming in, Klingons are attacking, somebody's attacking. And you've got to make decisions, consequential decisions for the life and well being of your ship and of its crew.

And no matter what you do, the test creates more variables to ensure your failure. So, so it's meant to reveal how someone responds to failure. Yes, to sacrifice to, you know what, to pressure.

And, and so in that way, it is a refining fire that, that shows who you are. If it's true that, that we see best of who we are under pressure. This is meant to show who you really are. You can't.

You got to let go of the facades in the Kobayashi Maru.

Yeah, it's one of those.

When you're watching the opening of Wrath of Khan, which I got to do really recently with Shatner hosting, it was a lot of fun with my dad, you're like, what's going on here? Who is this woman in charge of the Enterprise? She's a Vulcan, like Spock. And like the rest of the crew's there, but like, then you see the reveal.

Like, no, this was the simulation, like, testing your resolve in the face of everything that's going on. Like, how do you handle high pressure situations? How do you handle losing?

And that's huge, especially for someone who's going to seek a command position because you got to make tough decisions on the fly, knowing you may make the wrong decision, knowing it may cost the lives of your crew. Like, it's a brilliant idea. And we see in one of the main cruxes of the film is Kirk's idea of, I don't believe in the no win situation.

What does he actually do later on in the film when he's presented with a no win situation? Like, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

And we see Spock make the decision he makes because he also had to take the test forever ago.

Yeah.

But we learn as Kirk teaches Savik, I cheated. I changed, you know, everything about it. I messed with the system and got a commendation for it.

Everyone was mad because that's not how you're supposed to do it. But he did. And that's so fun. It's so, like, how would another character respond in that scenario?

Like, how does Cisco face it vs Picard face it vs Janeway face it so on, so forth. And it's not canon, but it's one of the Star Trek novels for Enterprise called Kobayashi Maru. And it face.

The idea being this is what actually happened. Archer and the Enterprise faced a scenario with the Kobayashi or Maru.

I don't remember all the circumstances, but it's him looking back and going, what could I have done differently? I faced all these things as a captain and that becoming, like, the basis for. We should use this as a testing for cadets and the like.

Now, obviously, things have changed. We're allies of the Klingons now. Sometimes it's Romulan, sometimes it's some other race. But the central premise remains.

What do you do when you have no way out of a scenario, regardless of what you do?

So freaking good, man. So good. And just to say, you know, we go ahead, we all, we all benefit from this.

Yes.

And because we, as someone once said, character is not formed. We don't grow as people when we're on a beach sipping on lemonade, people through the crucibles of life.

That builds character, builds who we, who we are. And the Christian tradition has believed that strongly and spirituality, and I would say many spiritual traditions believe that in various ways.

It's one of those things that Jesus never promised we'd never go through trials and tribulations. He said he'd be there with us as we went through them, becoming the people he needs us to be, the people we actually want to be.

Yeah, in the moment, it sucks, you know, because bad things are bad. It's as simple as that. Is, we don't like going through it.

But yet, at the end of the day, I can look back at everything I've suffered through and go, this is why, who I am today, I am a different person.

I make different choices now because I suffered the loss of my grandfather, because I made that stupid decision that ended a friendship that may I never do the same thing again. Like, it's a perfect example in a fictional way of showing what we should go through in life.

Right? Yeah. And, and, and, yeah, it shapes us.

And, and this is, you know, one might even say even when we think about Kirk trying to skirt defeat, you know, as his character matures, really through the movies, we see how things that don't work out, even though Spock comes back to life. But, you know, we start to see, you know, we start to see how it shapes us.

Or Picard saying In Star Trek 5, Kirk saying, Star Trek 5, you know, to Cyboc, I need my pain. This is what makes me who I am. You know, if you take the pain and guilt away from me, I'll be somebody else. I need my pain.

So at some point, at some point, he's learned that this is how one grows. Yeah.

Well, speaking of the Kobayashi remove, as we're winding things down, our bonus question for the day is going to be ourselves asking the question, how would we revamp the Kobayashi Maru test for Modern Trek because obviously Klingons are allies now. You can't be doing that. Romulans are now kind of allies. Like how would we change things up? Spice it up for cadets.

Because you just tell them, oh, this is what happens. So you could potentially do something. Let's make it new for them.

So Justin, anything else you'd like to say about Starfleet Academy before we move on?

No, no, I. Other than just. Just reiterating that I love it here and I love this question that you've raised about how we would revamp the Kobayashi Maru.

Perfect. All right. Do you have a recommendation for the audience to check out Golly.

For again, for all those who's not seen it, jump into for all mankind. Fun. Just interesting stuff as far as sci fi. And everybody who hasn't caught up on he man, get on it. It's time.

Yeah, I'm going to recommend Monster. Monster is manga anime about a doctor in Germany. He's Japanese doctor who immigrated there and he's faced with a decision. Do I save.

This prominent person who gives money to the hospital will save the life of this kid. He chooses the kid. Unfortunately, the kid has been programmed to become a serial killer. He didn't know that.

And now that kid has gone off to grow up and kill people and he's wrestling with. Did I make the right decision? What can I do now to stop him? Do I break my Hippocratic oath and kill this man before he can kill someone else?

An immensely great psychological series once again simply titled Monster. So Real quick, like to thank some supporters. Real quick.

Thank you very much to Ethan Overcash, Austin Nance, Amber Riley, Jonathan Augustine, Gunnar Bergam and Frank Kruglauer. You guys are the best. But remember, we're all a chosen people. A geekdom of priests.