🎧The latest new episode of the #ResearchCultureUncovered podcast Ged Hall introduces our New Host, Alix Brodie-Wray. Alix is Faculty Impact Development Manager for the Faculty of Arts, Humanities and Cultures at the University of Leeds.

Alix discusses her role, which includes supporting impact case study development and working on impact literacy across nine schools. Find out more about Alix and what she will be bringing in her episodes.

Topics include:

🔸 Alix's background, including her journey from the University of Brighton through various research support roles to her current position at Leeds. 🔸 Her role and responsibilities supporting arts and humanities impact. 🔸 Alix’s and Ged’s shared passion outside of work, Mod culture and soul music. 🔸 The biggest challenges facing researchers today, including disciplinary silos and public perception of higher education. 🔸 Her work on impact strategy, ethical approaches to impact, and making research more visible.

❓ What will Alix be covering in her upcoming episodes?

💡 Thought-provoking conversations on arts and humanities impact and the role of professional services in research. 📊 Meta-research and the participation of research administrators in shaping research culture. 🤝 Co-production, ethics, and practical approaches to impact case study development.

Listeners can connect with Alix on LinkedIn

Items mentioned in the episode:

1. ‘Clean Living Under Difficult Circumstances: A Life In Mod – From the Revival to Acid Jazz’ by Eddie Piller
2. LinkedIn post about the results of the 2025 Australian University Census.
3. Association of Research Managers and Administrators (ARMA) Meta Research Special Interest Group
4. International Medieval Congress 2025 – Medieval Studies in Action

All of our episodes can be accessed via the following playlists:

1. Research Impact with Ged Hall (follow Ged on Bluesky and LinkedIn) and Alix Brodie-Wray (follow Alix on LinkedIn)
2. Research Impact Heroes with Ged Hall
3. Open Research with Nick Sheppard (follow Nick on Bluesky and LinkedIn)
4. Research Careers with Ruth Winden (follow Ruth on Bluesky and LinkedIn)
5. Research talent management
6. Meet the Research Culturositists with Emma Spary (follow Emma on Bluesky and LinkedIn)
7. Research co-production
8. Research evaluation
9. Research leadership
10. Research professionals
11. Academic failure with Taryn Bell (follow Taryn on Bluesky and LinkedIn)

Follow us on Bluesky: @researcherdevleeds.bsky.social (new episodes are announced here), @openresleeds.bsky.social, @researchcultureuol.bsky.social

Connect to us on LinkedIn: @ResearchUncoveredPodcast (new episodes are announced here)

If you would like to contribute to a podcast episode get in touch: researcherdevelopment@leeds.ac.uk

Welcome to the Research Culture Uncovered podcast, where in every episode we explore what is research culture and what should it be. You'll hear thoughts and opinions from a range of contributors to help you change research culture into what you want it to be.

Welcome to the Research Culture Uncovered podcast. My name is Ged Hall and I'm the Head of Researcher and Development at the University of Leeds. Today. This episode is a bit of a twist on my usual research impact content because I'm welcome, welcoming a new co-host and fellow impact nerd, Alix Brodie-Wray to the Research Culture Uncovered podcast.

Alix, I hope the nerd bit didn't offend you.

Not at all. Not at all. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. I identify with that for sure.

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Well join the pack. Um, so just to get us started, Alix, I wonder if you could give the listeners a quick overview of yourself mm-hmm. And your current role at the university and, um.

And where you started, where, where you were before as well.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So, um, my job title is very long. I'm the Faculty Impact Development Manager for the Faculty of Arts, Humanities and Cultures at the University of Leeds, which is very long. Um, but yeah, I started out, uh, at the University of Brighton.

But, um, yeah, and then through that, um, I started studying PhD. And I had to be part-time and obviously earn a certain wage. So I managed to get a research office job, um, in a kind of pre-award role, I guess submitting grant applications and started getting involved in REF (Research Excellence Framework) , uh, 2014, which was my first taste of impact.

Um, it was quite exciting. And at post 92 to have this new concept of impact. Uh, yeah. And then, um, I. You know, I, I ended up not finishing my PhD, but stayed in research support. So, uh, when I came to move up north, um, I eventually insinuated myself into a, a brand new role in the School of Design and research support role there, and got heavily involved at the last last REF.

Um. Yeah. And from there I'm, I'm worked for a couple of years, uh, in the Schools of Music and Performance and Cultural Industries. So that kind of broadened out, I guess, my knowledge of arts and humanities impact. Um, and I've been in this role, I think I'm just starting my third year actually. Um, yeah, so, which is super exciting.

Uh, it's, uh, in a pretty big faculty of nine schools. Um. Yeah, we have a really brilliant, I'm really lucky to work with some really talented impact research officers in the faculty. So it's, um, you know, we share a lot of ideas and work on impact literacy in quite a broad way, which is really exciting.

Yeah. Thank you for that. Um, just to help, uh, international listeners tell, tell us what you mean by a post 92.

Ah, okay. Um, so yeah, just a kind of history of higher education in the UK in a nutshell. Um, there were, uh, there used to be a sort of two tier system, I guess you might call it, for higher education.

So, so Brighton had emerged out of, uh, various colleges. There's a, there's a private school called Brighton College. I'm sure it wasn't called that, but I think there was an arts college there, and I think a lot of 90 post 92s. Did emerge out of arts crafts, technical colleges. Um, so yeah, that's probably what we mean.

Uh, but Leeds is a Russell Group University, so that is a kind of research focused university. Um. Not quite Oxbridge, but may, maybe the next step down.

Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it, that we, yeah, we hang on to all those histories about when, uh,

yeah,

when, when things happened because, um, I, I guess Leeds started out in, in terms of the trying to, you know, early 19 hundreds, um, yeah.

Is when we became a university. Um, so it's not. Actually, it was only 92 years before the polytechnics became, yeah, quite a

similar beginning really, isn't it, with the Yorkshire

College?

Absolutely.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah. So as well as impacts. Um, and you mentioned the word modernism. We share another path, passion, which is actually.

Mod the subculture. Yes. Um, the music, the fashion, and as I've said, the, the culture around that. So how did you get into that and, and really what's your favourite aspect of it?

Ooh, okay. Well, so when I was a small child, um, I lived in California, so till I was nine and. I really got into soul music. I was a really big fan of Aretha Franklin.

Um, my parents had some tape in the car and I was obsessed. So I think I, it was the music I suppose, or some of the music. That was probably my first way in. And then there was just something about the aesthetic that I found really appealing. So my mum was a Mod back in her sixties, uh, and as a working class woman, um, she sort of.

Tried to make it work, a teenager and woman. So I think there was something kind of. Pretty impressive. Um, I think there's another mod book out there, uh, Eddie Piller, um, Clean Living Under Difficult Circumstances. So I think there is something about achieving such a sharp, cool look like with little that I'm, I found quite nice.

Something a bit DIY, um, about it. Yeah. And then living in Brighton, there were a few, uh. Few Mod nights and scooter rallies and things like that. But I, I think I was always not, I don't quite make the grade in terms of being neat, uh, to be a proper Mod, but I definitely admire it all, uh, and try and emulate it in my way.

Yeah, it's one of my, uh, in the town where I live, one of my favourite weekends of the year is the, um, it used to be called the Mod Weekender at the, uh, about the third weekend in September. Now it's called the Ribble Valley Scooter Ride In. Oh. Which, to be honest, everybody has called, let's just call it Mod Weekender, and, uh, it's easier.

Yeah, that's funny actually. Yeah. Yeah. I was back in Brighton in the, in the spring or summer, and there was a. It just coincided with the rally and they were all coming down on their scooters and it was, it was kind of bittersweet. Um, because I guess I was living there 20 years ago. I was like, oh, everyone's still cool.

Yeah, just a little bit wider and grayer.

Yes, yes. Uh, I was just about to say, I, you know, I, I think I, uh, I think I was born a bit late. I should have been a teenager in the, uh, in the sixties. Um, but then I kind of go, oh God, I'd be old as well, even older than I am now. So, so let's just, yeah. Look back and go.

People had had to write about it in grant applications before then. Um, I kind of, I kind of felt like I'd found my real purpose at work, you know, that it, you know, really hit with all my, um, value judgements in terms of what I thought universities were for and things like that. So what is it that really interests you about it and why?

I think it, it took me a little bit longer maybe, I mean. We were quite excited at Brighton when impact came in. 'cause we did quite a lot of kind of university partnerships working and public engagement work. So I think we were like, oh this, this could be a really good opportunity to showcase what we do outside of the normal ways of valuing academic work, I guess.

Um, but you know, when you are in the trenches with REF, you realise it's not. A popular thing or always? Um. It was sort of, I don't know, I used to describe it as a bit of a monster. Do you know what I mean? Like it's this kind of huge, you have these huge wodges or did back then of paper guidance and I'd have these huge kind of folders I took to places discussing.

It would instantly upset people. Um, everything was quite delicate and political about it. Um, yeah, so. I think my first sort of reckoning it with it, I suppose apart from that vague sort of. Optimism was I, I'd like to use my skills to make the REF less bad, less evil, and more, more workable for the academics.

Do you know what I mean? So I think that was kind of my first thought was like, okay, you know, I've been working in as administrator for a long time. I'm pretty organised in the scheme of things. I can just make this make sense for them. Um, but I think it was actually. Funnily enough, there was a moment last REF, and I think it might have been at one of your workshops, Ged, so I'm not, I'm not meaning to like suck up to you or anything, but I was just, when you said impact is change and I was a bit like, oh yeah.

Do you mean like I was like, okay, okay. Impact's change. I think I can get on board with that rather than dealing with trying to sort of wrestle something nebulous into something understandable. It can be about sort of. Really creating the conditions for what a university should be like you were saying, I've got this memory when I was in the states of going on a campus tour, uh, I must have been the University of LA I, I don't think they would've taken us too far out of the city and, uh.

Being aware of all these sorts of different people wandering around, and I think there was some kind of horrific stall on vivisection. You know, they like political things everywhere, but I was like. I felt like, oh, okay, this is like a little microcosm where like different generations of people can come and, and kind of bring in the community and we can all talk about ideas.

So I think I've held onto that sort of idealistic. Version of the university and thought actually impact doesn't have to be something imposed on us by the REF. It can be a way of reminding ourselves of the meaning of it, which does sound quite cheesy, but, um, I think that's what keeps me going though, you know, through the hard guidance talks or, you know, recalcitrant academics and you just think some, sometimes it's like, why are you working in this area?

And it'll come back to the fact they actually wanna make a change. So. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, it, there's something about, um, I used to try and pride myself in terms of one of my evaluation metrics for a, for a presentation was, could I manage to get through it without saying the REF

yes

acronym and, um, and keep it.

Kind of keep everything centred in that. Mm-hmm. Why you in it in the first place?

Yeah.

Um, why do you do what you do? What is it that is important about it?

Yeah.

Now, now demonstrate that to, to people who also think that Yeah. Yeah. Are likely to think that. So, you know, that's, that's definitely the richest way to impact, I think, and, and probably the least.

The one with the least number of rocks. I'm not saying there's, there won't be bumps in, in any, any road, but the one with the least number of, of challenges.

Yeah. Hard world for academics, you know, across the board it can be, you know, it's a famously um, difficult sector in terms of like burnout and the pressure that academics feel, and I think it can drive them.

I mean, I guess I saw it a bit. So I was, I was, my PhD was in the area of cultural studies. This is my take on it, but I felt like cultural studies came out of a kind of English lit, um, maybe a kind of well intended, maybe a slightly wrong way of reading other people without really talking to them. But, um, yeah.

To redress that. I think we got quite, I mean, I don't think I did, but the, the subject got quite mired and quite obscure philosophical concepts that were really hard to explain and really exclusionary to outsiders. Mm-hmm. So sometimes I've seen that academics feel having to feel very defensive about their discipline or to sort of couch things in a complicated way.

Um, to sort of prove they're clever or they, they deserve to be there. Whereas I think impact helps 'em get right back to the nitty gritty, um, which is good.

Yeah, that, yeah, that's an interesting, that's a really interesting take on that. I'll have to, I'll have to remember that one. Now we've mentioned a few times, um, just over in your answer there, you know, the challenges, you know, REF the evil thing and, and, and, and stuff like that.

Uh, and people are under pressure and certainly I've noticed on my LinkedIn feed, people mentioning the survey coming out of Australian universities where it looked like just about everyone. Um, is almost on the point of burnout. Mm-hmm. Um, so what do you think are currently the biggest challenges for researchers in our community or in Leeds?

Uh, and potentially, you know, more globally, um, depending on how far you want to go with, um, with your answer. Uh, you know, whether that's integrating impact into their research practice or other things.

Hmm. Yeah. Well, I think it's all interconnected, I suppose, I guess. There's been a lot of discourse in the UK That's quite, yeah.

Anti higher education. Um, you know, and the Brexit. Brexit and the, we are sick of experts. We don't need experts anymore. Uh, and then in turn, this sort of a tabloid discourse about Mickey Mouse degrees, um, where they'll find a module about something and decide to say, you can get a degree in David Beckham or something.

So I think there's always been a sort of atmosphere, I guess, in the UK that's just not friendly. Two, HE, and then that's doubly. So for the arts and humanities, I think, um, or at least it's perceived to be within our community. And I think, I think that kind causes a sort of schism a bit that doesn't help, um, us see the value.

So I mean, this is sort of something I've noticed that we do across the disciplines. It's just sort of. Laugh about how we are ignorant about the other side. So a science person might say, haha, I know nothing about poetry. And the arts person will say, oh, it's just a load of numbers. It doesn't mean anything over there in the sciences.

And it's like, I think that actually might have harmed us a bit and undermining the possibilities of foregrounding real world issues. Mm-hmm. So I'm not saying I agree with any. Shade cast on arts and humanities or higher education, but I think there might have been missed opportunities to really demonstrate that within our communities and maybe externally that may be made a bit worse by our own sort of silos, uh, that we create for ourselves.

Um. But I can understand. It's a hard, it's hard when we really wanna dig into our specialisms and create our own, uh, voices and our own areas of expertise. 'cause that's also how academic life works. We are the one who knows the most, we should be given the money, uh, you know, our papers are the best papers.

Um, but I think that competitiveness maybe is just, I. Something we need to move away from in this climate. Um, yeah, so I know that's quite, those are quite big threats. Uh, but I think they're sort of dealt out in these little ways, aren't they? Throughout our everyday work that's get ingrained a bit further.

Um,

yeah, that's. That's really interesting because yes, they are systemic, you know, big, um, big systemic challenges, but actually how you handle those as an individual matters, um, and with other individuals in that, in that small system that you might be in, um, whether that's you talking within your discipline or talking outside of the discipline, I remember my.

Um, and, uh, you know, kind of went to see him and we had a good natter and he went like, what, what are you doing? And this sort of thing. Mm. I said, well, I'm kind of probably gonna be doing stuff around this, um, this impact stuff. And he's like, his eyes rolled in his head and, you know, because he was. He was a very, you know, fundamental, uh, researcher, very at the, uh, at the most fundamental end of, of chemistry where, um, which was, which was where my degree and PhD where.

But we started talking about this, um, exhibition he'd done with, um, with some arts researchers in terms of how to, how to represent waveforms. Okay. Yeah. It was a fascinating, um, exhibition. I think it, it was before I came back to the university and I think it was, um, and one of the, uh, Night Lights, the really early ones, you know, kind of, 'cause they've been running quite a while.

Mm-hmm.

So load loads of like, quite big, um. Balloons and things like that, uh, that were kind of oscillating around in time to, in time to music, which was influenced by the waveform of that particular, um, small fragment of a molecule.

Oh, cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and, um, he, you know, absolutely loved it and I think he loved the, um, almost the challenge of trying to show it.

You know? Mm-hmm. Something at the subatomic level.

Mm.

Uh, and the atomic level and being able to show that so that people can interact with it. Yeah. And, um, and it was only, you know, it was only the art side of things that enabled him to kind of grasp that, you know, so working with. Um, people from, you know, as you said, the other part of the university to kind of think, how do we do this and what, you know.

Mm. Actually framing that almost as a research question. Um, yeah. Which, which fired all of them off as collaborators.

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting you said that because sometimes there's a bit of reluctance amongst arts. Uh. Researchers to get involved with the sciences 'cause they feel like they're gonna be popped on the end as the pretty bit of public engagement or just sort of, I suppose, hired in for that bit, not part of the research itself.

I think that can be, that is a challenge sometimes 'cause it's about how you see knowledge. It could be quite fundamental, but um, but I think when you do have that mutual respect, then that's when the most interesting things happen.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So talking about interesting and exciting, um, what is it that you're currently working on or about to start, uh, working on that's really got you fired up?

Well, it's probably very nerdy. Um, but so, I mean, sure universities are at various stages of preparing for the REF, uh, and in some ways. You know, the last REF for me wasn't super fun and we were in COVID, so which added another level of weirdness to the whole thing. But somehow I really do enjoy working on the nitty gritty of those texts.

Do you know what I mean? Like I really enjoy working with academics on giving them feedback. And I've just spent the last week really trying to help with, uh, feedback that's come also from other. Brilliant professional services staff here, but really kind of co trying to, um, collate that and present it to them in a way they'd find the most helpful.

Um, and in a way it's kind of hard work, but. I'm really excited to start talking to them about working on the actual text. Um, and I guess some of the technical things about presenting an impact case study. So that's probably not what most people are excited about, but I think I quite like that back and forth or, or the puzzle of it.

Um, 'cause some of our research is quite iterative, so you'll have like a relationship between the, the research and the impact that's sort of circular, that feeds on itself. So it's helping them comb out like the research to the impact claimed. Or we've got other big projects which. You know, it's worth, like, I just, I think if I think in shapes, but I'm like, I can imagine the different shapes the case study might make with that.

Mm. So weirdly looking forward to that. And this is also really nerdy, such a nerd. Like, um, we just about finalising this impact strategy for our faculty and strategies are boring, aren't they? And no one reads them and if they can be full of complete guff. Um, but I've tried to. Give it some work packages and some actual deliverable things.

Mm. And I've realised I'm only one person in this big faculty. Um, so I'm really looking forward to working with the officers delivering certain bits of those work packages or the Directors of Impact as well, the academics. So, um, so I feel like we're at the edge of a new phase as we move into REF, uh. So there'll be no, yeah.

More technical challenges, I guess, um, is what I'm looking forward to.

And you, uh, take the lid off the strategy a little bit. And is there anything that you, you're particularly looking forward to trying?

Yeah, so, um, yeah, I think we've been sort of experimenting a bit with, um. Training for our case study authors.

We might be moving into that more one-to-one work. Mm. But I feel like we're solidifying a little bit around what in particular arts and humanities academics might need. Um, so, you know, things like the podcast, um, and being involved in this podcast and, um, you know, at. Kind of creating things that have been in my brain for a while, like just getting them out and down on paper, uh, to start really creating a bit of a resource.

Um, I dunno what that looks like yet, but, um, yeah, that's, it's kind of what it looks like. So we've got some baselining coming up to try and figure out what the situation is. Um. I don't know if that's a way of saying mapping, which can be, uh, useful sometimes, but other times it's, it's a bit of busy work.

But, um, yeah, so I think I. Getting that, those kind of ideas in my head down into workable work packages. We're gonna, we've got a really talented Research, um, Communications and Engagement Manager, so he's gonna be working with me in the summer as well, looking at how we present externally and how we can make our arts, humanities researchers bit more visible out there as well.

Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, I think. So that's one of the upcoming deliverables I think from our strategy. Um, and I know we've talked about it, Ged as well, like ethics, like ethical, that Reed and Jensen work stuck with me quite a lot and, um. We do have a guide to ethical approval for case studies. Not everyone's chuffed at the idea of having to get ethical approval, but I can see there's some medium term gains there just changing the way we think about impact and it being quite a bit more considered around that.

Um, yeah, so it's not solidified yet. I was hoping to get some academics involved, but. No luck yet. Um, maybe it's not exciting enough, but, uh, yeah, it'd be nice to sort of start to present, start to really bring in that that co productive element we have in our

totally

faculty, into our practices rather than just, oh look, we do co-production.

It's like, well, actually, how can that inform the way we actually work in our jobs? You know what I mean? In the day to day of an academic.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, we can, it's, it's dead easy to say it when you're kind of, uh, talking to an academic and kind of this is the best way of, or likely to be the best way or the least.

Mm-hmm.

Um, the least barrier, bolder strewn way of, uh, of doing it, uh, you know, through a co productive mechanism. You know, if we then impose, we're kind of,

yeah. So.

Showing them how not to do it.

Yeah. Or if we just decide it's just a matter of ticking some boxes on a form.

Yeah.

Um, yeah. Then we're not really doing a job there either.

Yeah.

It's like a kind of, yeah.

It's good to hear that you, you're thinking about that, um, comms aspect because I think. You know, it's interesting both iterations of the REF, all of those case studies are, are 2 completely open, searchable, uh, databases. And, and you look across at, uh, at university websites and, you know, soon after, the results are announced and things like that.

You see a few stories about Mm. That are definitely related to probably a case study that's been submitted, but I don't think we actually kind of. Universities do a lot of comms.

Yeah.

But I think, I think they do a lot of comms often at the start of research. Mm,

yes.

Or about students.

Yes. Yes.

And, and I think, I think we miss out on the, on the end bits of the story with, of research often, you know, um, you know, nobody's bothered that you got 5 million pounds.

What people are bothered about is what you did with it.

Yeah, that's so true. I don't know if that's driven by us sort of competing with our peers. Yes, probably is. Which is probably an important thing to do to some degree. But it's like, um, actually, you know, if their organisations are looking for expertise in a specific area, where do they start and how do they use websites?

I mean, I think I'm a bit out of date with that as well. So it's been interesting speaking to our comms manager. That's a brilliant name of Joe Christmas. Um,

that

is a good

name.

Yeah, it is a good name. It's Joe Christmas. Uh, he worked previously at the British Academy. Um, and his team there, you know, and the, the people he's connected to at the university can really help with that.

I think they call it search engine optimisation. That's probably really old and I'm just very daft. Um, but anyway, so I think it's been nice knowing. Um, you know, what my limits are and drawing on those teams to, to be like, right, how can we find our, re get our research more searchable for colleagues, also for people who don't know how a university works, you know?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think it's really important. Um, yeah. And what happened? Yeah. What happened because of our research, um, that's gonna help isn't it, with that issue of seeming irrelevant.

Yes. You

know, eventually.

So in terms of, um, your own content on, uh, you know mm-hmm. If I, if I give you those few minutes of, um, of advertising, advertising space, um, what, uh, what can listeners expect from episodes that, uh, that you're gonna be putting out?

Um,

well, yeah, so I think there's a few strands to me in terms of obviously being passionate about impact, especially in the arts and humanities. Um, you know, and bringing that, that learning into the podcast. But also, I've been in professional services for a really long time and really. Uh, you know, I have a side interest as a co-chair for the ARMA (Association of Research Managers and Administrators) , um, metaresearch Special Interest Group.

Um, and I work on that with, uh, Chris Daley from LSE and Amy Milligan, um, at Said Business School in Oxford, uh, who are both fantastic, uh, very busy colleagues. Um. And I think what I bring to that sort of chairship is somebody, you know, with, without the PhD, who still feels able to participate in research.

I mean, I'm a little bit funny in that I did have a go at it, so I'm not completely green in terms of research. Uh, if you count cultural studies, which of course, which of course, which I do course you do,

yes.

Um, yes. But it's, uh, yeah. So, um. What I really wanna do is encourage our people working in our fields to take the opportunities that seem to be coming out about participating in research, on research, and I think impact a particularly.

Mm-hmm.

Good one. And I know you've done a lot in this space as well, like as an, you know, it was fairly new in the world of this discourse, I suppose. Um, so. There's an opportunity for us to come in as professionals and help shape that discourse. Um, but I think sometimes I've seen research managers and administrators feel a little bit like they aren't as clever, uh, as the academics as they put it, or they don't have the skills.

And I think actually having that operational knowledge or insight. It is really important. Um, and I think if, if there was more of our voice, uh, things would be much better. Um, so yeah. Anyway, but, um, I'm hoping to, to maybe bring them in to talk a little bit about the role of research around administrators in meta research and meta science.

Um, demystifying the use of the word science in that. Yes. Um, it's just meaning pretty much research. Um, yeah. And I guess, you know, I'm interested in that. I can talk about PGR (postgraduate researcher) experiences, you know, even if I didn't finish, there's, um, it's funny 'cause people with PhD seem to understand why I didn't finish and people without them think it's a real big shame.

So, um, yeah. Uh, I've done some work with women at Leeds before as well around emotional labour and, um, academics as well. Uh, so. Yeah, I mean, I'll try and be a little bit more systematic, um, when I come up with the podcast ideas, but at the moment, it's, um, sprawling all over the place and those sort of slightly disparate threads maybe.

Well, it's a vast, it's a vast field. You know, we, we, yeah. Um, when we came up with the title and, uh, you know, it was kind of like somehow we need to. Scale back somehow. Mm. Yeah. But I think, I think the growth in the number of hosts, um, 'cause we started out at, um, six of us I think it was. And uh, you know, I think, what are we up to now?

Is it eight

mm

Yeah. Yeah. And we, we lost Tony on the way, unfortunately 'cause of his, uh, his retirement. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, that growth in scope and, and being able to kind of, you know. Not just go, oh, okay, we've got a broad interest in that we can kind of start to drill down into Yeah. Uh, into different topics is, uh, is really interesting.

And I'm, you know, I'm particularly interested in that, um, meta research bit. Mm-hmm. Because, um, yeah. So I'd love to love to see some things come out on that.

Yeah.

Um, do you think it's mostly, um, you know, there's, there's a. Obviously our own practice needs to be res research informed. So are you suggesting that the research information that we're we're using to base that on comes from our own practice rather than, rather than others researching on us and us just reading the paper?

Oh, I don't know. I guess. It varies, doesn't it? I mean, when you dig into who's involved, maybe it's more complicated anyway. Mm-hmm. And people just don't get cited or don't get foregrounded enough.

Mm-hmm.

Um, yeah. But, uh, there's a few ways of looking at it, isn't there as I was, um. We had a drop in session last week and I had the slide on what is meta research and it's meta science.

So of course I'm like, I, I think I know. I think I know, but I'm gonna just, and I went down a bit of a rabbit hole. Um, and it was interesting actually 'cause I was like, okay, so there's reasons we call it science, which are to do with the way we use science internationally is a word for research. Yeah. Um, but there's also a sort of.

A sort of way into it when you see some of the more prominent meta science papers or meta research papers, that's bringing something more empirical than something that hasn't been very systematic. So it's almost like. Okay. You know, the way that we review is biased, so we are gonna cut through that by being even more scientific.

Mm-hmm. So it's sort of like doubling down on the scientific, but that's just part of the picture, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Um, so the way I think of it then is, you know. But the reasons why we're biased are probably social and cultural, aren't they? Do you know what I mean? So it's also very much, yeah, yeah. So it's like, yeah, so, and I think that was quite a nice realisation, and it ties in a little bit with what I was saying earlier about interdisciplinarity, that actually we might think, oh, they're going over here to this very empirical view of proving, you know, removing bias and being much fairer.

But then it's like, but looking into the why. Mm-hmm. Um. You're gonna have to use some different methods. Um, yeah, did that answer your question quite? I'm not quite sure if it did.

Well, it

put on hand

it, it gave a different angle on it. Yes.

Ah, okay.

Yeah.

Alright.

Yeah. So Alix, our, um, I'm sure hopefully that's wetted listeners appetites for what comes next.

Um, so would you like to, um, end today by just saying. Goodbye to the listeners and, uh, and maybe making a specific plug for anything you've definitely got in the plan.

Yeah. Uh, I hope that that all made sense. I think in my brain sometimes there are some. Longer paths, uh, to the same place. Um, but I'm really looking forward to presenting on the podcast.

And, uh, you know, I'm hoping to bring in my co-chairs for the meta research, uh, special interest group to talk a bit more about their own experiences. Um, so I think that was a really key bit of our drop in really. It was very interesting hearing about the sorts of institutional barriers, um, faced when you are not on the academic side, just in terms of putting a research grant in or trying to get published or finding time.

Um, so I think I'd like to bring in that sort of practical element to the research. Uh, meta research discussion, so watch out for that one for sure. Um, yeah, meanwhile, in the rest of my life when I've emerged from a pile of impact case studies, um, I'll be talking actually again at the International Medieval Congress, uh, this time with my colleague Eddie Mehan, about the role of research adminis administrator, managers, and administrators in, uh, in, uh, research again.

So, um. Yeah, if you, if you wanna sort of. Come along to the Medieval Congress and

you can

wind up

plugging

that,

that into a podcast as well.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, because I, I, I got to speak last year at the, um, about a paper that I drafted called, um, the Problem of Arts and Humanities Impact, uh, which is slight provocation, but um, it sort of argues for.

Um, a special understanding, not that impact is different in that space, but actually that they, we have more in common than we think, especially with pure sciences. Um, and that, um, actually arts and humanities is. Really good at getting people interested in things and that we always have audiences. Um, so yeah, I'm working on a piece with the comms manager about that, which I hope to go out in some conduit or other, uh, over the next academic year, so can look out for that as well.

Excellent, and thanks for coming along today and welcome to the podcast.

Oh, thanks Ged.

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