Who are the faces behind The Doctor? In this episode, Joshua Noel and Christian Ashley dive deep into the influential figures that shaped the enigmatic Time Lord, exploring how characters like Tecteun, Borusa, Rassilon, The Master, and Romana contributed to the Doctor's identity. They tackle the big questions about how these relationships mold the Doctor's choices and values, ultimately leading to a fascinating discussion about the balance between rebellion and responsibility in the Time Lord’s character. Expect some witty banter as they dissect the complexities and quirks of the Doctor's journey through time and space, all while keeping the vibe relaxed and engaging. Whether you're a die-hard Whovian or just curious about the lore, this episode is a must-listen for anyone wanting to understand the intricate tapestry of influences that make The Doctor who they are.

A dive into the intricate world of Doctor Who reveals the fascinating influences behind the enigmatic character of the Doctor. The co-hosts, Joshua and Christian, explore the foundational figures like Tecteun, Borusa, Rassilon, and the Master, shedding light on how these Time Lords and their ideologies shaped the Doctor’s identity and adventures. The conversation takes a humorous turn as they share personal anecdotes about their experiences with the series, from Joshua's amusing attempts to understand the complexities of the Time Lord Academy to Christian’s fondness for the Tenth Doctor.

The episode ventures deeper into the lore of Doctor Who, discussing pivotal story arcs such as the Timeless Child and the ramifications of Time Lord society on the Doctor’s character development. Christian, with his so-called 'perfect memory', recounts the convoluted history of the Time Lords, while Joshua interjects with sharp humor and relatable commentary, making the dense information palatable. This dynamic not only captivates the audience’s attention but also sparks curiosity about how these characters interact with the Doctor, painting a picture of a complex web of relationships that ultimately define who he becomes.

As the conversation unfolds, the co-hosts also reflect on their personal journeys with the show, emphasizing the importance of community and shared experiences among fans. From reminiscing about their first encounters with the series to discussing the Doctor's rebellious spirit against the pompous traditions of the Time Lords, this episode encapsulates the essence of what it means to be a Doctor Who fan. It’s a celebration of the show’s legacy and a light-hearted exploration of the characters that have made it a beloved cornerstone of science fiction, making it a must-listen for both die-hard fans and newcomers alike.

Takeaways:

• The Doctor's character is heavily influenced by the Time Lords, especially figures like Tecteun and Rassilon, who shaped his origins and values.
• Without the Time Lord Academy's teachings, the Doctor might have never embraced his rebellious nature or desire to explore the universe.
• The complex relationship between the Doctor and the Master illustrates how opposing influences can define one's identity and choices.
• Romana's role as a Time Lord companion provides a unique perspective on the Doctor, showcasing the balance between duty and the thrill of adventure.

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Hear more of our Doctor Who episodes:

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Who are the faces behind the Doctor? Who would the Doctor be without the Time Lord High Council or the Time Lord Academy?

Well, we're gonna be asking all those questions and many more on this episode of Smack Geekology as we discuss how Tectwin Barusa. I might be pronouncing all these wrong. Rasselin, the Master and Romana impacted the Doctor from Doctor who.

I am Joshua Nolan, one of your co hosts here with the one and only, the one with the most not hair, but personality. Christian. Ashley. How's it going?

Yeah, still holding on to the vestiges of the hair at the moment. One day they're gonna burn out.

I think I need to make as many ball jokes to all of my friends as possible before all mine fall out because it seems like it's coming soon. So I'm like, I need to take advantage while I turn about's fair play.

I made fun of my dad all my life, and yet now I look exactly like him.

I think I'm supposed to take away the other lesson of like, oh, it's happening to me. I need to stop. But instead I'm like, I need to get them all in while I can. That's fine. I mentioned I'm Joshua.

Store up your treasure.

Exactly. We're talking about what everyone's geeking out on lately. I'm going to surprise Christian.

I've been waiting to talk with Christian to reveal that I've been reading through the Witcher series. That's one of the things I've been geeking out on lately. I don't love them, but I don't hate them, which I thought I was going to hate them.

I have not read through the series. I own the first one and I think the second one. I'm eventually going to get to them. But from what I understand. What's the guy's name?

SAP Kowski, or whatever it is. He's kind of like the Alan Moore of Poland in the fact that he has very huge opinions on how things should be done.

And he's not quite fond of the games because that's why he's popular. And he thinks it's just based on his own merit. Yeah. But I'm interested to see what you think about him later on.

I read the short stories first. So far, they're significantly better than that guy's book. But yeah, also, I get all my books from, like, a used library, so, like, deal.

So I'm just supporting them. And none of the money actually goes to the author, so I don't have to care who this author.

Perfect.

Yeah. Christian, what have you been geeking out on lately, man?

Newest season of Invincible is out and I've really been enjoying it. Things are heating up in immense ways. I can't wait for what's New, where I get to talk about it at some point.

Yeah, Invincible. The boys, Daredevil Mall. Like, it's a good time to be a geek. I'm gonna say that it's a good time to be a geek, guys, but Daredevil's great.

I need to watch Maul at some point.

Yeah, I think what's better than all of that though, it's systematic ecology.

So you.

You guys should rate and review our show. Wherever you get your podcast, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Podchaser, GoodPods. Wherever you rate, review. It tells algorithms that we're important.

So trick the algorithms to thinking we' so that other people will see our show and maybe one day will actually be important. You know, fake it till you make it, right? You guys have to help us fake it till we make it.

We appreciate everybody who does take their time to do that. You guys are amazing. We also really appreciate all of our financial supporters. There's a few that we love. We love everybody.

I love all our financial supporters. But today we gotta especially shout out Ethan Overcash.

I met him last year at a geek camp and I'm hoping to see him here in a few weeks at the Synod meeting. But he doesn't know that yet. So if you listen to this, message me because I want to meet up.

Also, guys, if you want your own shout out like Ethan, you become an official member of Systematic Geekology on our website. It's in the show's description. It's a really great place.

Other stuff you can get there, you can get like shirts you make a one time donation, whatever. This is our Faces Behind Us series, so this episode's part of that. So if you want to get the Faces Behind Us T shirt, it looks really good in purple.

There's a few other color options, but none of our other shirts look that good in purple. So if you like purple, I recommend the Faces Behind Us T shirt. Get it while you can. We're gonna have it up for the year.

I love the design and I spent time on it, so I appreciate people who buy it to make me feel good about the time I spent making. Also, if you like our Faces Behind Us series. You can find a playlist to the entire shindig. Down below again shows description.

There's a lot of links down there, so if you just want more stuff, read the links, figure out which ones you care about, then use those. But for now we gotta jump into our main topic. Alright, alright. Christian. Christian. We're jumping in the tardis. It's spinning out of control.

Who knows what place in time or space that we're gonna land, but wherever we are, we're there with the Doctor. And some people listening are like, who the hell is the Doctor? So could you maybe share some of your experience with Doctor who? Classic who.

How you first encountered it and how confused were you when you first saw Doctor who? Because I feel like no one our age started at the beginning. We're all like started halfway in the middle going what's going on? I love it.

But huh, yeah.

Now I said before on the show, I got into it in college after that wondrous device that is completely obsolete today called TiVo was. Was made. I had always heard online people talking about Doctor who is like this British sci fi show and it's like, yeah sure, I'll check it out.

And at that point it was on a Sci Fi Channel airing and I set it to record as many as possible. I'm pretty sure my first episode was like the, the second part of the Sontaran saga that happened with the tenth Doctor.

I don't really have a lot of context for what's going on here, but this seems like it's cool. So I'm going to keep watching. And I did fell in love with 10. He's still my Doctor to this day.

Then from there moved in to a couple years later I had it was on Hulu. I don't know if it still is now, but like all of who all had it survived to this. That present time was on there and it's like, you know what?

I'll watch it from the beginning. And I haven't looked back since. I mean, yeah, there's some sneakers every now and then. For the most part, I've enjoyed my time with the show.

What I think I love too personally, I actually love the Doctor who community.

Not necessarily online, but like I have so many friends who started watching it and like the people who watch Doctor who that I know in person, I tend to have enough in common with that I don't dislike talking to them. I'm not a very social person. So that's a high statement, you know, but like, you know Krishna get together. Even when we disagree.

It's like kind of fun disagreements, right? Or me and my friend Q if there's a stinker of an episode. Honestly, I have a lot of fun being like, man, that stunk.

I miss when this actor was on and this show run. Like, I have fun with it, even the bad ones. Like, I just. There's a lot of.

Just a lot of community, a lot of opinions, a lot of passion behind this series. So, you know, I've always enjoyed it.

My first episode was Satan's Pit, which was also our first extra content ever was a review that me, Joe and Brandon did of Satan Spit. Interesting first episode, but yeah, 10 will always be my favorite Doctor too.

I actually, when I watched the 10th Doctor, I started there and I just kept going. I didn't go backwards. So when he died, I just didn't know that was a thing. So I was pissed off.

And that really, really tainted my view of Smith, because when that 11th doctor showed up and I'm like, you're not the Doctor. And I just felt that way for four years. Who's this Boto?

Actually, I did have fun with Smith too, but I was always a little bit like, that's not the Doctor. But eventually I did. I go back, I got Classic who.

I set my PlayStation to think that it's in the UK so I can watch some DVDs that won't play in America, so I can see as much Doctor who as possible because I love it. And I just. I've had a lot of fun ever since I was introduced.

It's just a great show traveling through space and time with a weird alien character that dies and regenerates.

New.

There's other premise stuff, but if you guys want to know more, listen to other episodes or just look it up. I don't think we can possibly explain it well and it not be the whole episode. So we're talking about the faces behind the Doctor.

The Doctor is an incredible character that we all aspire to. He's like the Superman. He's the like, oh, my gosh, he's so smart. He's so like, whatever. We're all like, I wish I could be like that.

And like, he's inspirational. But what makes him him? Later. We're gonna talk about what makes soup soup later, later in the year. But today, what makes the Doctor the Doctor?

So to get into that, Christian, use your brilliant intellect, perfect memory, and can you just explain a little bit of the storylines around, like, the timeless child? What is the Time Lord Academy? Who are the High Council of Gallifrey. Just, you know, do a little info dump for us using your big brain.

So for certain parts of this, I have not rewatched some of these things by choice. And he doesn't need to because he.

Has a perfect memory.

Of course, that's what I'm known on for the show, is never getting any information wrong, always never looking back behind myself to make sure I got it right, never correcting myself at all. So when it comes to. Yeah, of course, there's no need for it, I'm perfect.

The timeless child, when we had stopped with RTD and the Moffat era and a new showrunner comes up in Chibnall, and he has decided to go in his own way and his own means of doing things, and what he decided to do is, is get rid of all the time loads again. But that's its own thing. But for its own part, the timeless child in this series, if I get things out of sequence, I apologize.

But the 13th doctor, she meets what we now call the fugitive Doctor.

And the idea originally it was for people to think, oh, well, maybe the future version of the Doctor, solid actor playing her like she does a great job.

But what we learned through the series is that, no, this is actually a past incarnation of the Doctor, more than likely with the information presented to us, which contradicts the information we currently possess. What we think, First Doctor being, you would think Number One, isn't the first Doctor.

And there have been other incarnations beforehand when we go to the very first one, allegedly, and I have my opinions on that too, where back in the day in Gallifrey, the Time Lords didn't exist yet.

And the reason they didn't is because they hadn't stolen the power of this child that had appeared, possibly another reality or alternate place or what have you.

And this child was capable of regeneration, had the traits that we kind of associate with Time Lords, and it said, well, let's take that for ourselves and brainwash the kid and the multiple incarnations to forget parts of her past so that we can still have 1 through 13 at this point in time. But actually, the numbering's awful and, yeah, it's its own thing.

So that's how the Time Lords were created, based on the energy present in this child from wherever they came from. Some of it's very vague on purpose.

Yeah. Just like real science.

Yes, of course, if there's anything Doctor who is known for, it's always getting the science correct.

Just like Christian's memory.

Yes.

So Time Lord society is created, they decide that they want to, like, move through time and space and like, not in a Federation Star Trek kind of way, but, like in their own pompous kind of way. Look over as like the protectors of time and like researching things and viewing other cultures and spreading their sphere of influence.

And that's what creates the Time Lord Academy, where, like, younger Time Lords, this original alien race on the planet Shebogin, they were like the original inhabitants of Gallifrey. Once again, if I'm remembering things correctly, they are now Time Lords, but they.

There are the people without the Time Lord powers who are Time Lords, and there are the people who actually do have the powers and regeneration, like, who are the Time Lords. And they start training people to become Time Lords. And this is part of the process.

It's like going through school, like getting a little more than the people around them who weren't training to become timeless. That's where, you know, the Doctor and the Master kind of are part of this program early growing up together.

Whether they're siblings or not depends on your continuity or whether they became friends. Once again, same thing. So that's the process there. Then we get into the High Council of Gallifrey.

Now, these are the people in charge of the Time Lords who make all the decision making processes and you have a president and the, like, they have judges who, you know, enforce rulings. Like, early on, like, we kind of knew what Time Lords kind of were based on a Doctor.

But like in Third Doctor, time is when, like the TARDIS is taken away from him due to how they saw him interfering with stuff. So this is when they're kind of starting to get things and they really get legs.

In the Fourth Doctor's time, where we start going to Gallifrey, seeing how they run things. And a fifth Doctor will go there too. I think the sixth and seventh went there as well at some point in time. It's been a while.

So we actually see them, that bunch of. They're not all pompous, they're not all showy, but they're like, our way is the right way.

Any contradiction of this, we cannot stand, we cannot abide. So you see, one of the reasons why the Doctor left early on is because he didn't want to be like those snooty people. He wanted to be his own guy.

Anything you want to add, Josh?

Yeah, no, no, I'm. I'm gonna go ahead and move on.

The next few faces behind the Doctor that we, we want to unpack, I'm gonna do A little bit more so that Christian can spend a little bit more time talking about Romana. That's his crush. Don't tell anybody. Oh, wow.

I'm learning things about myself.

He's all kinds of things. Okay, so I'm not. Yeah, okay. Tec Duan is the old lady we meet and said timeless child stuff that Christian was talking about.

Allegedly is the Time Lord person creature who found the Doctor as a child whenever he landed on Gallifrey through the time portal thing and figured out all the timey whimy stuff. Right. Doctor's like, oh, you were like a mother to me. There's a little, like, quips here. She's kind of plugged in really quick.

And you don't really have time to get to know this character. Allegedly really important to the Doctor, however, and is part of. I forget what it's called, but it's like the division or whatever.

So it's like a secret part of Gallifreya society that's overseeing time and stuff so that we don't have more splits and then multiverse stuff, which never happens because I think someone realized maybe the was all a bad idea. Okay. Anyway. It's hard to talk about the timeless child stuff and not get a little like, ah, this was dumb. There are some good stuff in it.

I love Jodie Whitaker as a Doctor and anyone who likes those episodes, Peace. I love that you love them. I wish that I liked them better. I think that's fair.

Borussa, however, he was the stand in for, like, president, Gallifrey political leader. He was like the. In charge of the High Council. A lot of times he.

Every time you see him, he seems to have a different title and maybe he moved up, but, like, we don't know what the move ups are because they're just titles and it's never really explained very well. But he does seem to be in charge. He is the. Oh, well, we're the enlightened ones because we're the Time Lords.

We know all of time and this is what things should be and how it should go. And it's meant to kind of be juxtaposed with the Doctor who's like, no freedom. Everybody should be able to do what they want. Woodrue.

I think sometimes. Sometimes some of the showrunners, I think, forget who the Doctor is. But the Doctor should be a little bit more like Luffy. He is the fun one. He is.

Allegedly. When you talk about like the Time Lord Academy stuff, it's like they learned how to like, steal and do all this stuff.

So then whenever he runs up to the government being all controlling, and this is the sacred timeline, they don't say that, but might as well. He's like, heck, no. And he steals a time machine, runs off, and he's like, let's just go have some fun.

And I think sometimes you see the show forgets that and he's angry and he's just as pompous as some of these older Time Lords were in the classic show when the Doctors. The point of the Doctor was he ran away. He's for fun, for freedom. And that's where I think David Tennant has a really good balance of the two.

Yeah, he gets a little angry at sometimes when we do stupid stuff, because he's been around long enough that he's like, we should know better. But also, he's still the fun one that's like, oh, that's fun.

And even Matt Smith gets a little bit when you go to my favorite Christmas special, when he's like, fish who could fly. How do you ever get bored? Who invented boredom? And like, that's the Doctor, right?

So I think when you think of, like, the Time Lord Academy, and you see this little mischievous kid, these are the faces behind the Doctor, in a way.

How the Time Lord, you know, these High Council people and the older stiff people who are all pompous, they made the Doctor the Doctor because he realized that's not what it's about. It's not about being a pompous jerk. It's about, to some level, fun and rebelling. And that's who the Doctor is, at least a little bit.

So that's why those faces, I think, are important. You also have Rassilon in the Master. Are some important characters you can talk about. Who makes the Doctor the Doctor?

Rassilon, mostly a mystic figure. Is he real? Is he not? Is he dead?

Is he not a large part of the classic coup until, boom, they bring him back in, the five Doctors and man, he's the man in charge, and he kind of takes over for Berussa. He kind of becomes the Not. You know what I'm trying to say? He ends up being the High Council, the president, the one in charge.

I think largely they do that in New who so that they don't have as many proper nouns and people for you to keep up with, because they don't think the audience is smart enough to keep up with so many characters. But anyway, so Rassilon kind of takes on multiple personalities and story lines, and it's confusing.

It's also with him, like an older who, he's more reasonable and rational. Not to say there's not some villainous aspects of his character, but like on the.

On the vast majority, he's on the side of the Angels at that point in time, then knew who he becomes. Almost like full fledged, almost a board villain, cartoon villain. But actually there is some more depth to him there.

And the reason being is the Time War and everything that happened there.

So you can see, like, there's a justification for why he changes in, like, having to endure the Daleks and other races trying to mess with time and space too much. Like, that could drive a man to madness. I get it.

But, like, if you go from new who to old who, you're going to be very, like, confused seeing the same guy doing different things.

Oh, yeah, definitely, yeah. And it's even suggested in the Five Doctors and some other places that maybe regenerating too much actually makes you go insane.

Like, maybe death is like something natural that's supposed to happen and they just kind of stop leaning into that when they realize they want the show to go on forever. So, you know, that's kind of part of Rassilon's a bit too. And then the Master, very complicated history.

It's like Batman and Joker, slightly more complex, maybe at times, maybe they went to the Time Lord Academy together, they learned from the same people. Rassilon influenced both of them. But the Master is like. It's like a yin yang kind of deal. The Master wants to prove he can be in charge.

It shouldn't be the Time Lord, it should be me. And then later, because retconning and storylines, you actually.

His motives kind of change to actually, I'm pissed off at what the Time Lords did to me. And now I just want destruction because I'm mad.

But still having that destruction, that yearning for power, is something that the Doctor sees in someone that he grew up with and says, I don't want to be that. So a lot of who the Doctor is is seeing what he don't. Who he doesn't want to be.

So a lot of the faces behind him really aren't like, positive influence people teaching and pouring into him.

Although one can argue Tirta whatever actually did, as pompous as he was, he actually did teach the Master of Doctor a few lessons and they were like, oh, wait, no, you're right. You know, back when the show was one where the Doctor could be wrong sometimes. And it was interesting. It was interesting to see that happen.

But a lot of who the Doctor is. Is seeing these other characters and going, I don't want to be them. So that's a lot of face behind you.

I do think, even though Romano wanted to were his companions, she's a Time Lord who I think influences the Doctor pretty heavily. And we have someone with the greatest credentials of having a perfect memory here to talk about her. So, Christian, who's Ramana?

Sure. Number one Ramana. Stan, as of five minutes ago, I suppose Ramana is a fellow Time lady of the Doctor's race and she.

Early on we have Ramana 1 Romana 2 at least that we've seen on screen. The first Romana, both of them are very haughty people and that they're very convinced that they are always in the right.

I think the difference in the actresses and how they can play that off and still be a little playful and like, there's a hidden deeper side of me. I think that two gets better. I can't remember actress's name that saved my life.

But the first one had met the Doctor when they were younger and she kind of like, not turned him off in a romantic sense, but kind of like, I don't want to interact with you since with how haughty she was. It's like, I'm kind of done with you. Then later on she's like teamed up with him to investigate. What is it?

Yeah, they're trying to find the Key of Time when the White Guardian stuff is going on. Eventually she goes to Earth. Then one day, for some reason, she decides, well, it's time to regenerate out of story.

Reasons being like they wanted a different actress to play her because she wasn't really playing nice or anyone else.

Regeneration is just such a convenient out. Yeah.

And this one is a little more playful. They start writing her a little better.

So she travels along with him multiple times over, you know, fighting different things, continuing kind of the. The. The Key of Time storyline to an extent. It's some of the outer material as well. Then, you know, she helps him fight Daleks.

Ends up eventually leaving the Doctor behind to. After they spent time in.

In space, which is this other realm they end up in and like trying to, like, rehabilitate the people, bring them back up to code, as it were for them, so they could, like, live in freedom. That's her departure from the show and other material. She kind of ends up becoming the President of Gallifrey. Yeah, that's cool. I think later on.

Yeah. It's in some of the novels that they did that pseudo canon from What? I understand how Doctor who canon works.

Like, they can decide to contradict at any point in time until the next kind of canon. And that's a time time war happens. We don't know what happened to her, even though we've had multiple opportunities for her to be brought back.

But, you know, whatever.

Yeah. And with regeneration, anytime. They can bring her back anytime they want. Just chose not to.

In a show based around time travel,.

You say it's just irksome.

Lords are dead. Non Lords and ladies all dead.

Yep.

Again, dead.

We'll bring it back and then they'll be dead again. So, Chris, we're not gonna. We're not gonna harp on our. On our things that we want to harp on, that we're negative about.

We're not going to be negative for a little bit. Instead, I kind of want to hear from you. The Doctor has had multiple personalities, which kind of makes this difficult to answer. Right.

Like, he's had more fun, more silly, more angry. Like, he regenerates with new personalities all the time. So it's a hard question, but I want you to tell me. How do these characters. We just talked.

We just spoke about Master Rassilon, Romana, like, all of them, how do they influence who the Doctor is? When we think of the Doctor and who he is, what parts of that are influenced from these other characters?

I think when it comes to the voters, obviously, I could say the name and Tech Daeu and a little bit of wrestling.

I avoided those the second time for a reason. Yeah.

It's been so long since I've watched the 13 ones. What you get is the idea of who you are because of the teaching and leadership you've had in your life.

And I think one of the good things about this is kind of showing. Well, I won't spoil too much, because we have another question about who the Doctor could have been without their influence.

I don't think he would have been the man that he is if they had not been around. But what they do is they show like, this is what Time Lord society has become. You got to get in or you're out.

Like, step into your lane, be this person we want you to be.

And you see a rejection of that, which is how we get, you know, the Doctor stealing the tardis, becoming his own man, traveling the stars, as it were, through time and space. Then when it comes, you know, Rassilon as well. Like, he's one of the earliest ones.

I think in the original show, before the reboot, he was the first Time Lord or Was that Omega?

I feel like it was Omega, but I don't know.

Okay, yeah, he was one of the first and I think Tecta, when she comes around as kind of more like she's actually the first because of all the retconning done with the timeless child nonsense, but whatever. So I guess they can have their silver medal, whatever. They can be the participation trophy people. I don't care.

Yeah, so he is kind of one of those people.

He has an influence over Gallifreyan culture as a whole, which of course, the Doctor doesn't reject his own culture, but he kind of rejects aspects of it which Rassilon as a defender of. Not everything that they've ever done, but like partial parts of the culture kind of goes.

There's a bit of an iconoclasm there, but also a respect, because being in that position, that's a heavy duty thing. So Doctor does respect him, Restaurant does respect the Doctor. But then we get into Time War, it's like hard decisions had to be made.

I've become a whole new person as a result. So that's kind of made the Doctor go, I never want to be like you. The fact that I was ever in a time War at all is still something that cripples my.

My instincts to this current day. So bringing you guys back and you bringing what you did back here, I think that's a huge mistake.

Yeah.

So that influences that story. Ramana, of course, is great. Both one and two in different ways.

Of like, okay, so we know what the Doctor's like and we've seen other Time Lords before. What, like, what is a daily Time Lord who isn't the Doctor? How do they live life?

And seeing things through her lens of like, why are you messing with these people, man? Like, we can literally go anywhere and yet here's what you're doing with this.

And, like, her kind of gaining a respect for him over time too, is really great. But also him, like, re encountering his own people and like, willingly being beside one is a huge step considering all the time he spent away.

So that's great for her. Wait, anything you want to add? The Master?

The Master, obviously, kind of a big one there, like introduced way early on, is kind of like the anti Doctor.

It's like doing things for his own will, you know, the Doctor wants to explore time and space and meet new people and have fun with them and see all these brand new things.

The Master is like, okay, yeah, this is all great, but wouldn't it be better if, like, my name was Trademarked everywhere, and people were bowing down to me.

God, you gotta love the Master. Sometimes it's just funny.

It's so pompous and haughty, but, like, it's earned because of who he is as a person. Like you. You know, he legitimately thinks I'm the best way to go. Everything else is pure chaos if I'm not in charge. And so, like, the.

The rivalry they've had between the two of them has helped inspire the Doctors. Be like, okay, sometimes I might need to take aspects of his character and get things done that way.

But most of the time it's like, no, you go too far. I can't ever be that way. We're never going to be best friends, even though we were best friends way back when.

But, like, you have changed, and I'm going to do what I can to bring you back to the light, but they're not going to force you there.

Yeah. Yeah. So I do think.

One of the interesting things just, I think, is a really clear thread you can follow is when it comes to the Doctor being the President of Earth and then his influence with unit, I think you can directly trace to a lot of these characters because you see how the Doctor saw who were the High Council, who was the president, whatever. And then when the Master tries to take over as President of Gallifrey, guess what the Doctor does? He becomes President Gallifrey.

Harrison becomes President Gallifrey several times. And then he's like, actually, I'd rather do adventures. This isn't fun. Goes and does something more fun, then something will happen.

And he goes, okay, I need to step up again.

And I think even, like, you know, you see how the Master tries to become President, you see him going up against Rassilon sometimes because, well, he realizes he is a better choice than Rassilon for Gallifrey, than any of them. And again, protecting him from the Master several times. And then I think seeing Romana do that also probably influenced him.

So when the chance comes up and he's like, I can be Emergency President of Earth and try to stop the war with the Zygons, like, yes, duh. I think he's seen it done well and he's seen it done poorly. So when he gets that opportunity, he's like, I'm gonna do this right?

The Time Lords are either dead or have been long gone, because they think they're just so smart. I can't reach them anymore. I can help here, unit, I can help here. I can make. I can show how to do this. Well, for Earth.

And I think having those negative experiences, becoming president and leaving several times, really allowed him the opportunity to make a real change on Earth, at least in the show. That's one way. I think it's a really important influence. If you just want to follow a single thread, I think you can see it there.

But, Christian, I know you were already starting to get there. Who would the Doctor be without any of them, or without one of them?

If you just had to pick one and be like, the Doctor wouldn't be the Doctor, because if the Master wasn't here, he'd be this. Well, you just pick one. Who would that be?

Without him, without his teachers, he's not himself.

I think he integrates in a Time Lord culture and doesn't really reject it, like, becomes maybe even part of the problem, or maybe someone working within the system to try and change things, depending on how things go. I don't think he ever steals a tardis. I don't think he ever goes out and gallivants across time and space.

I mean, sure, Time Lords, they do that, but most of them are not xenophobic and isolationist, but they're more like, we don't do that every day like you do. And.

And I don't see him becoming the person he is without their influence being, like, an almost negative kind of sense in his life, being like, okay, I never want to be you, so let me choose this path instead.

Yeah, yeah. I. I don't know, I'm a little torn. I kind of feel like maybe he'd get into some mischief.

I think, as a person, even without the other influences, I think he is just a little bit of a rebel. Like, I think that's just. The Doctor is a rebel, you know, nature, nurture thing. I think that might be part of his nature.

I think, best case scenario, even if he leaves Gallifrey, I feel like he finds his wife, whatever, and just settles down. But I think, like, without the Time Lord Academy, that's the best case scenario.

I think the Academy, he learned so much about how things work, what science is and how nature should unfold and what things should be happening.

That allows him that the knowledge, the literal, just knowledge of being in school allows him to go to these places, oh, I want to go see the whales in space, or, ooh, you know what? This planet's cool, let's go there. Like, the knowledge is what allows him to be so fun because he sees how marvelous the universe is.

So I think the Academy is a huge part of who the Doctor is. Just without knowledge. The Doctor is not the Doctor.

Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

All right. So then, Christian, incredibly, incredibly important question only you can answer. Only you are wise enough. Yeah.

Would you rather be on the High Council of Gallifrey, be the Doctor or be a companion to the Doctor?

Yeah, I. Joining the High Council, I don't want to be any part of any government body. I don't want to be the guy making decisions.

I want to be the guy making things, making sure that things are done correctly. I mean, on the other side of things, companion, Forget about it. Ain't no way.

I spend like one or two years with this guy and he drops me out somewhere.

That's if I survive everything and he doesn't explain himself to me, you know, to help me understand everything that's going on or, like, even given the option of why didn't have to explain it because I needed you to figure out for yourself. It's like, no, just. Just do it. It's like, no, forget that. I want to be the guy actually roaming around. Time and space has control.

The TARDIS can go literally anywhere and influence people that way. That give me that option every single time.

I think it's going to surprise you. In your infinite wisdom and in my infinite bad opinions, I think I have the opposite opinion. I think I would love to be on the High Council.

I like politics and like. Like figuring out how systems work and putting stuff together and planning. I love doing that stuff. But it would depend who the President is.

I don't want to be President. I could be on High Council. But, like, if Romano's president, sure, me and her would have a lot of fun.

We're going to build up structures and it's going to be an art. Awesome place to live. If Rasslin's a resident, you know, I might not. I'm gonna be a companion, whatever it is. I don't want to be the guy in charge.

I don't want to be the one deciding where we're going or what's happening. I'm okay helping. I'm a great assistant. I like planning things, but I don't want to be the one that's taking the wheel kind of speak, you know?

So I'm literally going to choose the opposite of you would say all the things except for being the Doctor.

Surprising.

I love the Doctor. He's my favorite. I don't want to be him.

So with that, just digging a little bit deeper here before we wrap this up, Christian, again, infinite wisdom. How can we be like the Doctor? To others or how can we be the kind of influences that might help others live lives that they'll become like that?

I think the time any doctor truly becomes themselves is when they open up to the fact that they are traveling around time and space in these different periods and witnessing things that no one else has gotten to see and then encouraging their companions to feel that same way and go, wow, we're back in Pompeii and it's about to explode. Isn't this cool? We. We're back. We're here in Loch Ness, and all of Zygons are involved with Loch Ness Monster. I think that's what happened.

Like, we're on Gallifrey, where these are where my people come from. Notice how different we are. And, like, why do you think I'm the way I am? So look at this.

Like, I think a good way of being a good teacher in that regard is to show people, like, why you care in the first place, but also get them to care in their own unique ways. Because you know what he does? He's not trying to create many doctors with a new companion.

You don't have to think the exact same way he does, but you should feel the wonder that he does. Yeah, I think that's a great thing that he does do when he's in that mood.

Yeah. Yeah. Few ways you can answer this. You. If you want to influence someone else to be like the doctor, show them exactly who they don't want to be.

Just be strict and miserable to be around so they know they don't want to be like you. I think that technically is what happened. I don't recommend that. I think you could still teach positively, and it's probably better to do that.

Something I started doing at work. I've decided I'm actually writing this for myself. That fun is really serious work and something we actually should care about as Christians.

And I have to use the word fun because, like, if we use joy, then it gets to these weird theology, whatever stuff. And I think it's still analogous, but it's like, I need to remember the word fun, because I think that shifts my mindset a little bit.

And one example, like, doing. Making guacamole at work and be like, oh, we got to do this much today. We gotta. And I'm like, guys, we have big avocados.

Let's see how quick we could do this. This is gonna be great. We're gonna do twice as much as they did yesterday and faster. Really faster than they did.

And making it fun and I think teaching that stuff, life can be fun. Teaching, like, our educators are really the ones who are making the doctors.

Nick Polk is out there somewhere right now creating the Doctor, showing people that, like, hey, learning history can be a fun thing. Learning how things work in science is actually exciting. Listening to your matter matters might make you excited about the universe.

And I think sometimes just remembering that, like, things aren't always negative and bad and, yeah, we can learn history, like, well, we don't want to do that. Or, like, oh, man, that's going to be boring. Or we're going to have a different mindset about it. Like, oh, this is fun.

So I think just like Christian said, maybe it's more about being like the Doctor, not trying to make other doctors, but trying to show that learning is fun and life can be exciting. It doesn't have to be, I got to do this, or, oh, man, why aren't they doing this? It can be. Oh, my God. It's different than I thought. That's so cool.

I wonder why I don't see. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. So, anything else to add before we wrap up?

It makes a lot more sense that the Master is the timeless child.

And telling the Doctor that they're the timeless child so that they can make the Doctor upset and have her join him against the Time Lords would have been an awesome arc for them. The betrayal at the end of. Actually, it was me and you. I got you to do all these things for my benefit, bestie.

As always, high intellect, infinite wisdom. Christian Ashley, future showrunner for Doctor who. And with that, we're gonna be wrapping this one up. I'm excited for our bonus question.

Real quick, we're gonna be talking about who we think the lady is in the farm from the episode Hellbend. So I think it's season nine, episode 12.

The Doctor Goes up on Gallifrey and he's in a farm, and there's some lady who apparently he knows and helped raise him or something. And we have no idea who that is still, but there are some theories. Christian and I are going to talk about it.

So if you want to hear that, go over to our website in the show's description and you can become a member. Hear that? A little bit of extra content and what we think about it. Anyway. Come on, how long, Z?

For now, though, Christian, if you had to give people a recommendation, what are you recommending to our listeners today?

If you, like me, are very upset at the fact that There is no 6v6 option in Pokemon Champions.

Like, there should be well, there's good news for you because unlike a multi billion dollar company, one of the largest industries in the world based on media franchises alone, who apparently can't afford to do this, a free version of this has existed for practically a decade. And that being Pokemon Showdown, you can continually do it. You can make as many as you want and there's no cost whatsoever to it.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. That's a good one. I'm actually going to recommend a comic book that's about to wrap up so you can get a graphic novel soon.

Al Ewing's Null. The Null series has been phenomenal. So if you're into like Venom Spider man lore and just. It's good, it's good. No Spider man leading into the Queen.

In Black series coming out.

Yeah, I'm excited. So no. Excellent series. Highly recommend that for you guys. For those who care about someone with bad opinions recommendations. There you go.

Think some people good opinions also recommend it. It helps. So if you want to rate and review our show, we would really appreciate it. Helps other people know that we exist.

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