Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell dive into the cosmic depths of "Absolute Martian Manhunter", Volume 1, where they explore the riveting narrative crafted by Deniz Camp and illustrated by Javier Rodríguez. Right off the bat, they tackle the heavy question of whether folks fear the Martian Manhunter more for his alien origins or because he mirrors humanity’s own flaws. As they dissect the storyline, they highlight how this comic transcends typical superhero fare, delving into themes of identity, loneliness, and emotional chaos—especially in our hyper-connected world. With a casual vibe peppered with witty banter, the duo emphasizes the significance of reading in today’s society, advocating for literacy and local libraries through their All Reading Counts initiative. Listeners can expect a blend of insightful commentary and light-hearted humor as they break down the artistic brilliance and profound implications of this unique take on the iconic character.

The podcast dives deep into the psychological intricacies of the Martian Manhunter, a character often overshadowed in the broader DC Universe. Joshua and TJ kick things off with a thought-provoking question: are people really afraid of him because he’s an alien, or does he mirror humanity’s darker aspects? It’s a profound inquiry that sets the stage for a rich discussion on the themes of alienation, identity, and the human condition, reflecting on how the Martian Manhunter's existence challenges our perceptions of what it means to be 'other.' As they unravel the narrative of "Absolute Martian Manhunter", penned by Denise Camp and illustrated by Javier Rodriguez, the duo highlights its unique take on the character, making it feel less like a superhero comic and more like a psychological thriller. They explore how the art style and color choices enhance the storytelling, emphasizing the emotional weight of the narrative. The episode is peppered with witty banter and personal anecdotes, especially as they reflect on their own experiences with reading and how literature shapes our understanding of complex themes. Overall, listeners are treated to a blend of humor and depth, making the discussion both entertaining and enlightening.

The conversation shifts gears as Joshua and TJ discuss the importance of reading in today’s world, particularly in combating the brain fog that comes with information overload. TJ highlights the benefits of reading for critical thinking, vocabulary enhancement, and overall mental clarity, while Joshua emphasizes its role in fostering deeper conversations and understanding among people. They both agree that comics, especially "Absolute Martian Manhunter", serve as an excellent medium for exploring complex themes like identity and alienation. The duo’s chemistry shines as they joke about their reading habits and preferences, contrasting the struggle of keeping up with comic releases against the backdrop of contemporary societal issues. They touch upon how the emotional turmoil of the Martian Manhunter resonates with the current socio-political climate, where feelings of loneliness and isolation are rampant despite the connectivity of social media. It’s a layered discussion that resonates with anyone grappling with the chaos of modern life.

In the latter half of the episode, the focus narrows down to the character of Jon Jones and his transformation into the Martian Manhunter. The duo intricately discusses how the narrative portrays his struggles with identity and the overwhelming emotions he experiences. They analyze the psychological dimensions of the character, drawing parallels between Jon’s journey and the broader experience of humanity in today’s chaotic world. The White Martian serves as a compelling antagonist, embodying nihilism and the fear of being overwhelmed by emotions and societal expectations. As they dissect the themes of loneliness versus connection, Joshua and TJ cleverly intertwine humor with poignant observations about the nature of human experience. Their banter about the 'spiritual warfare' aspect of the narrative adds an unexpected layer, prompting listeners to reflect on their own beliefs and experiences. By the end, it’s clear that "Absolute Martian Manhunter" isn’t just a comic; it’s a profound exploration of what it means to be human, making this episode a must-listen for comic fans and casual readers alike.

Takeaways:

1. Joshua and TJ explore the psychological depth of Martian Manhunter, revealing how his alien nature reflects humanity's fears and identity struggles.
2. The podcast emphasizes the importance of literature in promoting critical thinking and empathy, especially through unique comic narratives like Absolute Martian Manhunter.
3. Listeners are encouraged to support local libraries through the All Reading Counts initiative, highlighting the vital role of community resources in fostering literacy.
4. The vivid colors and artistic style of Absolute Martian Manhunter serve as crucial storytelling elements, enhancing the emotional weight of the narrative.
5. The discussion touches on the impact of information overload in today's society, paralleling the chaotic experiences of Jon Jones as he navigates his new reality.
6. Joshua and TJ humorously debate the merits of various literature formats, ultimately agreeing that comic books uniquely blend art and storytelling in powerful ways.

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Are people afraid of the Martian Manhunter because he's alien or because he reflects back who we've been?

Yep.

Today we are discussing Absolute Martian Manhunter, Volume 1, written by Denise Camp, illustrated by Javier Rodriguez, and the lettering stuff by Hassan Otsume, El Ho. I hope that's right. I don't know if that's right.

I had TJ do the names because I was afraid to pronounce them and I was afraid not to say them because I know Will Rose will probably listen to this. Today I am Joshua Noel. Every day I'm Joshua Noel. And I am here with the one, the only, the Pod Almighty. Tj, Tiberius Juan Blackwell.

I'm most likely not a Martian. He absolutely is. If you've seen Adventure Time, he was Abraham Lincoln. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Still am sometimes.

Sometimes. So today is going to be one of our All Reading Counts episodes, which TJ means we have to shout out. What was the last kind of literature we read?

And something about the title. I'll go first because I think I surprised you before mentioning this. I think I already mentioned this on episode, but I don't really care.

I just finished the manga Vinland Saga. I watched some of the anime. You read the whole thing? Yeah, it was incredible. I couldn't stop.

Yeah, man, imagine.

Vinland Saga is amazing.

Imagine waiting for that to come out week by week for the past four years.

Yeah, I didn't finish the anime. I watched some of it was. I mean, this is good. I'm talking. Then I forgot that I was watching it.

But when I pitched the manga, it was so much better than the anime. Yeah, there was no putting it down. It just wasn't happening.

Yeah. Phenomenal.

Yeah. So about you.

It was actually mad. Mad on.

That's the title or you were mad that you were reading it?

That's a title. Okay, I can't remember the author's name. It's new small scale manga about like an alien invasion on Earth and it's. It's pretty good. Pretty cool.

Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet.

All right, well, guys, we are excited to get into this one, but before we do, we got to remind you guys, if you don't mind, rate and review our show wherever you're listening. You can do it while you're listening if you're not driving.

You know, if you're on Spotify, Apple podcasts, you said the little stars or thumbs up or whatever is there now. I have a hard time keeping up with it.

I know on Spotify it still stars last I jet last podcast I rated because I do that because I know how much it helps podcasts. We also want to shout out one of our financial sponsors. Thank you, Jonathan Augustin. Jonathan, you rock, man.

We've got to meet you in person a couple times at Theology Beer Camp. We hope to see you again this year at Theology Beer Camp and we're just glad to have you along for the ride.

Systematic Ecology, guys, if you want your own shout out, you too can become an official member of Systematic Ecology on our website, just like Jonathan. So if you want to be like him, become an official member. Go to the website in the show's description and you could do that there.

Same website, without becoming a member. You can still get some free extra content.

You can buy some of the merch T shirts like what I have up on the screen right now or even just leave a one time donation.

Speaking of, since this is All Reading Counts, anything you buy on the website that says All Reading counts, the T shirt, the hoodie, the notebook, whatever. There's even audio files you can buy separately through that link on our show. And I'm going to include also specifically the All Reading Counts link.

All of the anything that we earn from this ends up being donated to our local public libraries just to support literacy because we think literacy is important. Yeah, yeah. We're pro literacy here at Systematic Geekology. And with all that out of the way, tj, I'm ready to talk about this.

You're the reason I got into this. I haven't read a lot of DC lately. I read some like Tom King when he was doing like nightwing and all that. And I was really into it.

Why can't I think Jon Kent? Jon Kent, Superman stuff? I loved that. The absolute stuff kind of started coming out. I didn't really care for the stuff that I picked up.

But then you spoke about absolute Martian Manhunter. I picked this up and I was enthralled. I was like, well, this is incredible. So that's what we're talking about.

Before we get to it though, we do like to on these episodes always just kind of take a moment to mention why we think reading is important. I mentioned we're pro literacy here on Systematic Ecology. Tj, what are some of the benefits people get just from reading more?

Well, there are a lot. Mostly I think today, of course, they're all the scientific ones.

But I think reading today helps clear up a bunch of that brain fog that people are going through. You know, you can't focus if you force yourself to sit and read. I think that helps a lot Actually, yeah.

Yeah. You know, there's all the stuff that people usually mention to vocabulary.

If you're worried about alheimer setting in supposedly it can help there helps with longevity of life if you just want to live longer. You know, read shows, reading does that. And then critical thinking.

You know, we live in a time where everybody always just picks a side and gets angry at the other side. And a lot of polarization really just happens because people aren't really thinking critically about situations and willing to have conversations.

Reading helps you think more critically, and I think it could actually just help us have better conversations in America and around the world. Yeah, that's what I think. With that out of the way, then. Tj, we already mentioned a little bit.

What is the Absolute Run that's going on in D.C. right now and how is this telling of the character different from the original Martian Manhunter?

So from what I understand, the Absolute Run is a run that they're doing with their, you know, their biggest, biggest characters. Batman is the really popular one. Absolute Batman. But they're also doing Absolute Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter.

Superman.

Superman. Absolute Superman. That one's good too.

What's crazy is I even love the author of the Absolute Superman. I got two issues in and I stopped. I couldn't care. Mm.

Yeah, but they're basically reimagining each of these characters in a new universe. They're kind of like modernized, generally darker, and just kind of flipping each character on their head in some way.

Some way, some shape, some form here. For Batman, he's not a rich orphan with, you know, a long standing rogues gallery.

He's got a loving mother and he's super poor and all of his, like, you know, main rogues are his friends.

So just punching his friends.

Well, you know how.

Take that, buddy.

Go.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It was like, should we be doing more fighting or.

No, not unless we get.

I don't think it would be very good for me personally.

Not unless we get like taken into some messed up asylum and experimented on lots.

Okay, I don't want to try that either, actually.

Yeah, me neither.

I'm good.

Yeah. But for Martian Manhunter, Denise Camp, honestly, crazy.

I think it's the most different one, the biggest change from the normal Martian Manhunter, because typically Martian Manhunter, John. John's is a Martian. That's why it's called the Martian Manhunter. Whoa.

Yeah.

And that's why he deals with themes of alienation, because he is an alien. Very deep.

Yeah, yeah.

But also, John Johnson is a Great character.

Yeah. I've heard you say this before. Where this one and then I think you said Green Lantern was the other one that was probably the most different. What.

What's going on in the Green Lantern one? Real quick. Just curious.

I read the first two issues and I put it down because I was like, I'm going to need to come back to this. And reana.

Different though.

The power rings. It's been a while too. Like, I read them both when they came out, so I don't really remember it all, but yeah, that's fair.

The whole, like, willpower thing, that's just not. Not a thing. The way it starts is an entity that represents the green. Like the power of Will Green.

Yeah.

Like in the typical Green Lantern. Lands on a small town and kills everybody except a few people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a.

It's a whole thing.

That is pretty wild. Yeah.

Yeah. Back into that one.

Yeah. I'm. I'm curious.

It's very different.

Yeah.

So I think too, what's interesting with this, what I read of the Superman one, the first couple issues made me feel like it was going to end up becoming like a. More of like a political thriller that also was like alien stuff. That was cool. I'm not sure about the others. I haven't really touched them.

This one, it just doesn't. I have a hard time. Like, I don't want to call this a superhero comic, but I'm talking about DC Comics, so I feel like I have to.

But it more feels like psychological thriller. Makes sense.

Yeah, it absolutely is.

Yeah. Okay. Even though it's DC and the main character is based off of a superhero that I know from like, you know, Justice League and all that stuff. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So here. Here's you. I forgot I did have a slide. So we also have absolute Wonder Woman. I've heard really good things about that.

I might check that one out. Absolute Superman and Batman. I read some of. I don't care. I'm not going to read anymore. I'm sorry. Kevin and Will and me. Superman.

Absolute Batman's the best one.

Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't care. Superman I might come back to just because it's Jason. Aaron. I love him, but Batman, I'm not. I just wasn't invested.

Absolute Wonder Woman. I might check out Green Lantern from your little bit. I am going to check out.

I've never cared about Flash unless he's in a team, so I probably won't read Absolute Flash. Have you read any of the other. Have you read Flash Just one.

See, the problem with remembering to read all of these is that there's a lot of them.

Yeah.

Is that the only one I've remembered to read? Like, every issue is Absolute Batman, not Manhunter. Well, I haven't read eight.

Oh. So I'm intentionally waiting and reading them by volumes.

I was reading it by issue after you recommended it, and then Absolute Martian Manhunter is making me anxious as I read it because it's a psychological thriller. So I'm like. I'm just waiting till I get, like, one chunk of story at a time because I just can't digest this one by issue. It's not in my wheelhouse.

I can't do it. I had too many other things to be anxious about. Yeah.

And really is good at that. It's so personally affecting through its just its use of art.

Yeah. Well, in issue six especially. I know we're gonna get to it, but, like, it really, to me is like, oh, that's. It's so.

It's weird because it's psychological thriller and it's so just alien in the sense of, like, different. But at the same time, I'm like, man, I don't know how surprised I would be if this is what's actually happening in our world right now.

Yeah.

Just wild. So I mentioned I know Jon Jones, Martian Manhunter from, like, the old Justice League cartoon. I never watched all of it. I watched some of it. I never.

I didn't care as much about DC as Marvel, even as a kid. But, you know, I liked it. I liked. Specifically, I always enjoyed watching Martian Main hunter and Batman interact for some reason.

I always remember just finding those conversations like, yeah, that was stimulating. I enjoy that. What about you? What is your history of this character in general?

Because I didn't know enough about him to be like, oh, this is so wildly different. Okay.

This is mostly the same, but, you know, you just watched more. I've read more DC comics than you, I think, where Jon Jones. Jon Jones plays, like, a significant role.

Yeah.

And his storylines are really good, generally.

Do you have any storylines that you remember with him that were, like, particularly good?

I don't remember what it's called, and I don't remember who wrote it, but I remember him fighting the White Martian.

That's cool. Because that's kind of what happens in this kind of. Mm. Yeah. So let's. Let's go to the comic at hand then.

I. I'm just going to say off the bat and we're going to come back to this, but, like, to Me. The colors are what makes it for me, and I can't. I don't know if I could say that about any other comic.

Yeah.

Like, the coloring is really what draws me in and what makes me go, okay, this is something I'm going to have to get some physical copies of and keep it on my shelf and maybe pass down to my kids kind of thing. Like, this is one of those where I'm like, this is art. This isn't just a comic. This is art.

Yeah, this really is. And it's not to say that other comic books aren't art. This just feels like it should be in a museum.

Yeah, yeah. Museum of Modern Art needs just a few pages from this. I feel like. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, like, some of.

Like, for me, Hellboy, I think Ice Cream man does it occasionally. There are definitely some stories that I'm like, the art really sells. What's happening here? Scotty Young's my favorite comic book author.

He writes a lot of those because he is an artist. So even when he's not the one drawing the comic, he definitely writes his stories with the art in mind. So, like, ain't no grave.

There's one issue that. There's only one word, the entire issue. And, yeah, so, yeah, sometimes it happens. This one.

I just think the coloring specifically, not just all the art, but specifically the coloring, is what makes the story so powerful. But, tj, could you. I don't know if you can. Could you summarize what happens? Issues one through six?

So that's volume one, if you're reading it from graphic novels. And the Absolute Martian Manhunter by Danez Camp. Maybe Javier Rodriguez and Hassan Otzman El Hau.

Yeah, maybe I can try. So to start, the character we know of as Jon Jones no more doesn't exist.

We have Jon Jones, this guy on the screen who is an FBI agent working for the Stochastic Task Force, which is. Or Stochastic Crimes Task Force, which is a fancy word that means random pretty much. But their job generally is to predict, you know, random crimes.

Crimes come out of nowhere. He very start of the story is in a suicide bombing, and he survives. And as soon as he wakes up, he starts.

He's not the one that had the vest on, just so we're clear. I think that could have been a little misleading. He was in the building. He was in the coffee house when it happened, though.

Which kind of an ironic way for an FBI agent who focuses on random crimes to get taken out by a random crime. But when he wakes up, he start seeing the smoke, the brain smoke, which is kind of stepping in for John. John's telepathic abilities in a big way.

And it is gorgeous. It is beautiful. Each emotion has its own color.

And his just having to, like, learn that, navigate that with the new Persona of the Martian Manhunter that lives in him, which is pretty much the only. If they had just not called this Martian Manhunter and it had been its own thing, it would have worked just as well.

It would have been a lot less popular.

Yeah, I'm. I'm honestly, we're gonna. I don't want to spoil things for later, but I'm. I'm hoping that he does become the Martian.

Like, I'm just hoping that that ends up being a thing.

Yeah. And a lot of it is that he already is the Martian. The Martian is a nickname that he had before the accident.

Yeah.

And his son, like, depicts him as a Martian in his, like, little clay dolls.

Yeah.

So it's interesting. Parallel between John Jones and Jon Jones and the man who so many people thought of as alien becoming alien.

Yeah. Yeah. Which part of that, him being a detective and being called Martian made me think of this is going to be kind of random, but whatever.

Did you ever watch the show Life on Mars?

No, I don't think so.

So the premise was, like, this detective somehow ends up in the past. So he's working with the police and detectives there, and it's just kind of like your normal crime show.

But one guy happened to be from the future, and the whole show's taking place, and I forget what time, era. Just like, the past, generally. And there's a lot of, like, little clues here and there, and it's like, okay, this is really interesting.

He's like a fish out of water. He's like a martial art amongst men because he's like, you know, different time here. It's like a whole different world almost.

And then the conclusion was just so unsatisfying that I went from loving that show to hating it pretty quickly. But. But, yeah, life on Mars, Martian Detective, you know, my brain made the connection. I was like, oh, that's kind of cool.

Except for the ending of that show made me mad. But, yeah, okay. So he's seen emotion as color, which also, it's why the art is so good. It depicts how chaotic the world we live in now is.

And it really shows, even some of, like, the minor detail shows why we have some of the problems we have now. Just, like, if you were paying attention in the colors and thoughts that People are having. It's like, oh, wow. They're disgusted by this human.

Just because they look different or, you know, whatever. Like, there's little details. If you're really looking into the different panels. And it's like, wow, they went all out on this.

So it goes from this where he's like. He's seeing the smoke, he's seeing the things. All the emotions are laid out in colors. Can you bring us to.

So issue six, we kind of get the White Martian. What's going on there?

That's a big jump.

Well, you can fill in the jump if you want. I just forgot what happened in between. There's a lot. There's a lot. It all kind of gets meshed together for me, which I also think is intentional.

I think they're playing a little bit with time in this.

Yeah. Because he is suffering from the after effects of the explosion, his mental affects are very altered, you know, including having the Martian.

But over the first six issues, the Martian in his head kind of becomes its own character, and they learn to actually live with each other. He accepts the fact that he is this way now, sort of. He kind of doesn't really accept it.

He doesn't want to accept it, but he has to because that's who he is now. And the White Martian, and I can't remember its driving motivation. It kind of just stabs at us a few times.

Yeah.

But he discovers this, and he thinks, of course, that it's like a lead for the stochastic task force. It's actually just the bad guy. John. Keep up. But it is taking people over and removing all these colorful thoughts that they had.

Yeah, yeah. So you see these color.

What's interesting is you even see the worst of humanity in these emotions and thoughts kind of just in the background, those little details I was talking about. And it ends up going to this place where you're like.

You see the removal of the color, the thoughts, even the worst parts of humanity, it's just worse. It's like everybody's walking around almost like zombies.

And you're like, it's really challenging to me because it makes you think, like, is the chaos better than all of us just being complacent zombies walking around, not feeling anything? And I guess. I don't know.

Yes, it's challenging, I would say. Yes, I don't think it's that challenging.

And I'm like, man, would I rather live in a world where we're all zombies than innocent people just getting murdered because someone thinks brown people are gross, you know? Yeah. Well, how do you. I'm not sure. I'm not sure right now. Right now I'm kind of iffy about it. Like, I do think, ultimately, I think it's better.

I think right now I'm just in a place where I'm like, I don't. I don't like acknowledging this.

Like, I think I do believe it's still better to have all the emotions and different feelings, even if some people are gross. I just don't like to acknowledge it in our current dimes, if that makes sense. That's reasonable. Yeah, yeah.

Anyway, they mentioned Darkseid.

That was wild. I forgot about that.

But not really. It's kind of in the same way as everything else, where it's an abstraction of Darkseid because it's not spelled like Darkseid. It is just Darkseid.

But I feel like that was kind of just in there to scare us. Like, oh, my God, is Darkseid gonna be in this book? Because that would be so much scarier than.

Honestly, it wouldn't be scarier than the other absolute series. They're all pretty terrifying.

I want. I want Darkseid. I think it'd be kind of cool to see them, all of our heroes, come together and fight Darkseid in this absolute world.

Yeah, that. I don't know if that. That would work probably, though, because you'd have to. The art styles are so different.

Oh, yeah, that would be wild. Just have Scotty Young do it. Make it incredibly silly for no reason right at the end.

Yeah. But it would be really interesting to see because how do you put a six foot nine Bruce Wayne into the same six, nine, four hundred pounds?

If Jon Jones ends up becoming the Martian? It can happen because. So what's happening is he's seeing all the colors of thoughts, all that stuff, but also he's seeing this Martian in his head.

I don't think anyone else has seen the Martian yet. Right. Like, it's just in his head right now.

Yeah. Other than, like, his son Tyler.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah.

Seen the Martian connected to him, but he. The Martian represents what Tyler already thought John was.

Yeah, makes sense.

See, I'm torn because I like the idea of the Martians and stuff not necessarily being real or it being ambiguous whether they're real or not and just kind of being in his head. And this is just, like, what's going on in the world. And I think it makes sense. Really powerful, symbolic, artistic statement.

But also, I think it would be kind of fun if they were real. And this is just how different aliens are than us.

They just manifested so differently that we couldn't comprehend it, except for one person who had some wild brain damage. And then maybe eventually that manifestation ends up becoming like, some kind of almost like demonic takeover, but rather more consensual, maybe.

That would be nice. There was consent. I'm a big fan of that. Yeah. I don't know. I want to see some wild stuff happen.

I like the artistic, symbolic stuff, but I also like wild lore, crazy alien stuff.

And it does also make it hard to know what is literal and what isn't, which is, again, intentional, because, like, is great. Is the Martian fighting the White Martian in, like, giant Kaiju forms over the city? I don't know.

Maybe. Look cool, though. Looked really cool. I couldn't find that panel I was gonna put up on the slides, but it looked literal.

Who knows? Not me.

Yeah. Well, and that's the other thing, too, is just looking at it, like. So I feel like you could look at it, the broader sense of, like, society.

Is it better to have all these emotions and whatever, or is it better to be a zombie?

But seeing it specifically through the person of Jon Jones, and it's like he is overwhelmed by everything going on in the world, like, just constantly in a state of overstimulation.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of people, you know, and, you know, I obviously think Trump is evil, but I think there's people on both sides of this who are just overwhelmed by what's going on in the world right now. Like, it's easy if you're a person like me to be like, ISIS killing people on the streets.

We have a president who's just randomly throwing slurs out against different races just because he feels like it. We have people being wrongly imprisoned. We have, like, the whole world's just in chaos.

Russia's attacking Ukraine, Palestine's in, you know, shambles. All this stuff. It's easy to be overwhelmed right now in this world. And I think on the other side, there's pretty similar things.

If you're worried that the church is in a state where you think the government's trying to take over. If you're worried about. I'm trying to think of what people on the other side are worried about.

LGBTQ stuff being widely accepted, people going to hell, rapidly being One of the few Christians left. Whatever you think. Like, I think regardless of where you're at in the world, the world we live in is just a place.

Probably because it's so easy to see what everyone else is thinking online, which is another cool throwback to what this comic is doing. It's just easy to get overstimulated or just overwhelmed. Yeah.

I think one of the most interesting effects of the Internet is going. You go back past 60ish years, you get a lot of superheroes, get a lot of other characters with powers.

And recently, a power that is becoming more commonplace is information overload. And that just didn't used to exist. Conceptually, you can do that in, like, cyberpunk is just.

I think it's just called, like, overload or information overload, where you just take a bunch of information, put it in someone's brain, and they can't handle it.

Yeah.

Jujutsu Kaisen does the same kind of thing with it. One of its main characters, Gojo, his. One of his powers is called Unlimited Void.

And all it does is put you in a space and give you a whole bunch of information at once. And it kills you to sleep in.

A sea of stars. Plays with that idea.

It does.

I don't think it does that as a power or anything.

Yeah. And it's kind of playing with that here because John is suddenly open to a whole new realm of information that is just constantly coming in.

He can't really stop at first. And, like, in his field already, he had been trained to, like, notice these things and to not ignore these things.

So I can't imagine how much worse it could be for someone like that.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it's interesting, just as a topic, I think I get a little torn on this too.

Like, I don't quite know what I think about some of this, because ideally, before Internet, I think a lot of people, you would live in a world where you'd still be kind of in that, like, that bubble or almost like an echo chamber, but your bubble is, like, not really an echo chamber. Your bubble would have been like, the people in your community.

You would know why the people thought differently than you and just have conversations with them. And it was limited in some way.

Even if you were more engaging with different kinds of thoughts, you were limited on how many people you would actually be engaged with. And now we live in a world where you're hearing us podcasters, and a lot of you are in different countries and you're listening to Trip Fuller.

You're Listening to people in Canada, Australia. We have a lot of Australian listeners who will never meet us who are like, wow, this Josh guy has terrible opinions. Right. It's like, what a world.

On one hand, that's amazing. That's so cool that we could do this. And on the other hand, it's like, that's just. I don't know if we were meant to take in this much information.

I don't think humans are quite evolved to that level. Nope.

But, yeah, I still want you to.

Listen to the podcast for the record listeners.

But, yeah, this is not the thing that you should be cutting out.

Yeah. Just everything else maybe.

Get off, get off social media. Spotify doesn't count as social media.

Yeah. I actually. Wild word. I'm not trying to do practical action, but I.

You know, I recently found out Samsung also has where you could see your screen time. I thought I had a lot. I thought it was bad. Like, I was like, oh, man, I'm averaging a little less than two hours a day.

Then it finds out most people in my life are like eight hours a day on their phone. I'm like, what the heck are y' all doing? Like, eight is serious. What are people doing?

I think so. The thing is, we, both of us spend a lot of time on our computer, which is not strictly better.

Oh, no.

It does make your screen time look better.

Look better. Yeah. Well, I do think from the people I talk to, a lot of theirs is like, specifically TikTok or Instagram. Like, people who get in reels.

I think reels are especially addictive.

Oh, yeah.

Short form content might actually be bad, which is the devil. I released them for cismic ecology on YouTube because we get more views. But yep. I don't know.

I don't like doing it because it's hard to do something nuanced in a minute. And also now, the more I'm learning of, like, how badly it's impacting people's brains, I'm like, ah, this might be bad.

Short form content in general might just be a bad idea.

Yeah, I think it is. That's why when I was a kid, I didn't want to read, like, the little kid chapter books. I wanted to read the real books.

Although short stories. I love short stories. That's different.

Too short.

We've done an episode about short stories that started all readings counts that you guys should go back and listen to. It'll be in the playlist down below.

I do love short stories.

Yeah. TJ has a few that he likes anyway. Okay, let's go to the format of the literature. So this is all reading counts.

We always like to talk about the format of literature. How do you think, tj, that the format of comic book either hindered or enriched the story that they're telling? An absolute Martian Manhunter.

I think it's perfect.

Agreed. Yeah. I mean, I already said before the colors. Yeah. I'm not sure the story could be told better.

Yeah, I. I think it's possible. I do think it's possible. Well, not to be done better, but I think it could be done just as well as a cartoon.

You would just have to be very on top of things you would need.

To say only, like.

Yeah, yeah. Like, only one comes to mind. I don't know if Javier Rodriguez does digital coloring.

Well, I mean, I guess this counts as digital coloring, but yeah, it looks like it was done, you know, animated coloring. Common side effects. Common side effects.

Midnight Mass, that kind of thing is what, like, it has to be of that quality if it was going to be adapted into a cartoon.

Yeah, yeah. I don't think it could be live action because I don't think I can get the colors right.

No, absolutely.

I think the colors are probably the most important part of this story. So I don't think it could be live action. I don't think it could be a novel because the colors are just so important.

Colors are very important.

I wouldn't even want as an audiobook. I love audiobooks. So I'm like, I need the colors for the story to say what it says.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Comic book is perfect.

Ideal. Yeah. Perfect for this.

Because not only. Even if it were a cartoon, you wouldn't be able to just kind of linger. I think lingering on some of these pages does you a lot of good.

Yeah. Particularly the pages where you just see all the colors and he's getting overwhelmed. Or when you see the White Martian start taking color out.

Like, I just had to sit there for a minute. It was almost like a meditation act. Like.

I know that sounds like I'm being a little over spiritual, but, like, something about this comic does feel borderline spiritual. I feel like.

And they do play with, like, the page turn a little as an effect of jump Scare.

Yeah. Which made digital comics hard to do, too. I think it probably would have been better as a physical comic. Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't.

I had to do digital because my nearest comic book shop's an hour away.

Yeah. Which, I mean, you could still. Digital's fine.

You just.

You just gotta go for it, you know, you Gotta flip the page all the way.

Yeah, I need it. I need to just buy a physical graphic novel. Yeah. My birthday. My birthday's coming up. Pretty good present. Somebody listening? Yeah.

Anyone listening?

Yeah, here's Joshua. Yeah. So we talked about what this story is saying about, like, the importance of emotion, thought, people being their own selves kind of stuff.

It also plays around a little bit with how people feel lonely in the world we live in. And we just talked about how there's this overwhelming amount of emotions and thoughts, and there's the Internet, and we're all more connected.

People are also more lonely than ever. And it has a lot to do with, like, memory, how we remember things, reliable narrator kind of stuff. It's playing around with a lot of.

But tj, as far as, like, just identity, loneliness, that kind of stuff, what else is this comic really trying to say?

Martian Manhunter is really scary.

That's what it's trying to say. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I think that's the main.

That's the main thing. That's the main point.

I just. I really like the loneliness part.

I think we talked about most of the other stuff, but I want to touch on the loneliness thing that it addresses, of how some we end up in a world where we're so overwhelmed by everything going on that we isolate ourselves, then we're lonely.

It's definitely reflective of a world, especially post pandemic, where so many people feel alone despite the constant influx of information.

And probably because of it, I think the social media issue, as it were, has only been exacerbated by the fact that so many people, you know, can no longer afford to really live or were scared into sheltering, just kind of permanently, like, as habit. And people are still, you know, spending their money, traveling and posting it and showing the highlights of their life.

And for those of us who kind of don't do those things, it can be easy to feel alone. And I think Jon Jones displays that really well. And by Jon Jones, of course, I mean Denise Camp and Javier Rodriguez.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I. I agree with all that. And I think that's what makes the White Martians such a good villain in the sense that, like, he's not even a villain.

I. I'm not sure if this was your takeaway, but to me, the White Martian was more like nihilism. So people are naturally coming to this place where we're overwhelmed, isolating ourselves.

We're feeling lonely because everybody's posting this cool stuff online. Everybody's doing cool stuff. We're just alone Then it starts this whole thing of, like, what's the point?

And even the people who are constantly doing all the things are like, what is the point of doing all this? So I think the White and Martian. Maybe this was just my reading, but it's like more like just nihilism in general. Is that. Was that your take, too? Or.

I mean, I can understand it. To me, I like to. I'll do. I'll do my in depth analyzing later. You know, after it all, I'll go analyze themes.

Okay.

I don't mean, like, now. I mean, just in general. To me, the White Martian represents the White Martian. Obviously it doesn't. That's not the point.

But I think nihilism is completely fair to read that. I do kind of hope the White Martian is serving as, like, a herald of Darkseid, because that'd be awesome.

I mean, it could be both, but.

I'm pretty sure it's not.

I'm down with both.

Pretty sure it's not doing that. This is a much more grounded. As weird as that is to say, this is a much more grounded story for Martian Manhunter than.

Than a lot of them, where he is completely expected to fight Darkseid.

Yeah.

Well, I think what's funny is somehow this comic feels to me more alien than usual, like comics that actually happen in the cosmos and also feels more grounded somehow. It's both.

It is somehow very human and completely alien.

Yeah. Yeah. It's perhaps perfect. Perhaps.

Yeah.

So this White Martian, whether it's nihilism or just White Martian or whatever, how does that compare to the usual superhero bad, you know, villain tropes that we typically see in comic books?

I think at this point, especially if you're, like, an avid comics fan or it's like, whatever. If you consume a lot of fiction, you've seen pretty much every villain. You've seen them all.

Yeah.

So it's nice to get something a little different. Nice. Get something compelling.

Yeah. It felt surreal. And what's funny is, like, explaining it.

I feel like it sounds like it would be unsatisfying, but I found it really satisfying still, the fight, because it was like, simultaneously, it was a giant Kaiju alien fight. And also, was anything actually happening at all? We're unsure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it's good.

Well done. Well, phenomenal. Yeah. So before we do wrap up, both of us grew up Pentecostal. I'm now in the Lutheran church. You're still Pentecostal.

One thing this reminds me of that I kind of want to get Your take on growing up? I heard a lot about spiritual warfare and, like, oh, hey, well, there's actually these spirits behind everything.

And my family wasn't as stereotypical as, like, some people hear Pentecostal and they're like, oh, they think that alcohol. There's the demon of alcohol, or there's the. You know, like. No, my parents weren't like that. Like, some.

Sometimes a drunk's drunk, you know, some stuff. They weren't spiritualizing everything. But there was generally just this idea that there were spiritual warfare happening all around us all the time.

And even I remember being told, like, when you go up to pray for someone, you're basically entering a battleground. Like, you're praying against the forces that are trying to go against them. That kind of stuff.

To me, this whole giant fight of perhaps a real Martian versus perhaps a real White Martian. And maybe it's nihilism, maybe it's being overwhelmed, whatever.

Like, it felt very similar to me or reminiscent of the spiritual warfare that I heard growing up. So I just kind of want to hear what you thought about that.

Yeah, my family was kind of the same way. We aren't. We weren't, like, super spiritually inventive, if you will. But we definitely talk about the demons.

Prayer was a battleground, you know, like, they ain't doing all the hooting and hollering for fun, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, what's funny is I think where I stand now with some of the spiritual warfare is probably where this comic book stands, where I'm like, I'm not sure how much of it is literal or not. Still think prayer helps. Whether it's literal or not, I don't really know, but I still think prayer helps. I still, personally, I speak in tongues.

Like, a lot of the spiritual stuff. I still feel. I experience it, I enact in it.

I'm not 100% sure how much of it's literal, how much of it's in my head, but it does seem to have some kind of impact in the world around me. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I'd say you're right.

It's.

It's right there exactly the same. Because we observe. Jon Jones. If these delusions are delusions, then they're pretty accurate. I don't know.

They're accurate delusions. So how much does it matter if it's delusional? Yeah.

Yeah.

Which, I mean, I guess the flip side of that, to challenge this thought, there are people who take that same kind of mindset and are causing harm in the world. Because they're just wrong. They're calling stuff demonic.

When people actually need to go see a psychiatrist or, you know, like, there are people who are doing this in a harmful way. But for me, personally, what I've experienced and seen, whether it's real or not, it's been helpful.

So I'm just like, I'm okay with this because I don't know if it's real or not, but if people are doing the same thing and it's coming up with harmful. Yeah. What do I do with this, tj, I'm losing my train of thought.

Better go catch it. I think what gets overlooked a lot is the force of will in real life and not Will Rose, even though his force is quite great.

Great force. Yeah. But, yeah, he is one with the.

Force, the ability to exert your will on the world around you. Kind of what everything is.

Yeah, I think that has a lot.

To do with it.

Yeah. Well, to give a stereotypical, annoying, almost evangelical, probably a Pentecostal answer, it's probably just going to be a Pentecostal answer.

Sorry, guys. The Bible talks about those who know my word, will know my voice kind of deal. Right. And it talks about the fruit of the Spirit and all that.

So to me, I'm not sure how much of the spiritual warfare stuff is literal or not, but I do think it's real, even if it's not literal. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. Okay. I just want to make sure people can follow me to where I'm at.

Is being literal different than being physical?

Yeah, being real and literal are two different things. Perhaps.

Anyway, regardless, I think if you use the biblical roadmap or whatever you want to call it, if your spirit or whatever spiritual warfare you're doing is promoting. I forget what exactly the list is in Galatians, but it's like hatred, slander, anger, partying, that whole list of stuff that's of the flesh.

You're on the wrong side of spiritual warfare. Whether it's literal or not, you're on the wrong side.

So stuff like what Donald Trump does with the anger, slander, all that stuff, that is what's listed as against the spirit of God, and the spirit of God is the fruit of the spirits and that. So it's the same. I think it's Galatians 6 talks about this. Love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness, kindness, self control.

If you're in spiritual warfare and that's what you're doing, again, whether it's literal or not, I think you're doing good. So I think I'm with absolute Martian Manhunter. I don't think it matters if spiritual warfare is literal.

I think it does matter what your spirit is going into it, if that makes sense. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. This was perhaps the most Pentecostal episode of systematic ecology, and I wasn't expecting that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Would you like to speak in tongues or dance before we wrap this up?

I think I'll pass.

This hold a snake. Okay, you know what?

Give me a minute. I'll be right back.

I half expected him to actually go get a venom.

I do not have a snake.

Not because he's been a castle, but because he's tj. Anything's possible. Let me check the porch.

Okay. There's nothing out. There's no. There's a terrarium outside, and sometimes there's.

An animal in it. For real? Yeah.

It's my roommates.

God, that's funny.

There's nothing in it right now.

All right, well, with that, I think it's time to go ahead and start wrapping this up. Do I let everybody know? We will be doing an extra question for people who are are official members on our website.

And remember, we're not caught up each issue, but we are still going to discuss where we hope the series goes next after what we've read. So if you want to hear us talk a little bit more about that.

I know we've mentioned some in this episode, but we'll talk a little bit more, go over to the website, and you can become an official member. Here's some of that conversation. Also, if you're on Spotify, you can become an official member.

And all those extra content stuff just ends up in your Spotify feed, so you don't have to go anywhere to find it super convenient. We got to recommend something from a kind of literature other than what the episode was about.

So something other than a comic book you're going to recommend for people to go check out? See for themselves Something tj, What's something that's not a comic book that people should go read?

I've recommended the same book so many times, but it's not my fault. It's a really good book. I will say you should read Ichi the Witch. Ichi the Witch is a. Is a good, pretty, pretty new series on Shonen. Jump.

Read it on Jump. Plus, it is about a world that is a matriarchy. Mm.

Mm.

Pretty cool. Main character, still a boy. So there are some things. Some people aren't super happy about that, but it's really good, really interesting.

The art is really good. And our main character is actually super interesting. He's a young boy, orphaned, kind of had to raise himself in the woods.

And this world is one where only women can do magic. Magic fully exists. It is fully real, but only women can do it. Except for him.

What?

So he's not a wizard, he's just a boy witch.

I need to know why.

Yeah, well, then you should probably read the series.

Could you help me out with this?

No, sorry, I got confused for a second here because I was looking up my recommendation and I know that sounds weird because I forget the names of authors and stuff. So on one of my other podcasts, I'm going to be talking some about Les Miserables. On Be Living Water, I'm going to be talking about the graphic.

Not the graphic, the full novel. But there is a graphic novel I want to recommend to people.

You forgot.

Look it up on Amazon.

Victor Hugo wrote Les Mis.

No, I was going to recommend the graphic novel for, but I guess that's still a comic book, so I can't do that. So instead, what I'm going to recommend is what came up when I tried to look up the Les Miserable graphic novel, because I think this is just wild.

There is an audiobook version of Victor Hugo's Les Miserable, retold as a graphic novel by Luciano Saracino. I'm not sure how you have an audiobook version of a graphic novel version of an already novel. Why not just do the audiobook of the novel?

I don't know, but apparently that's a thing. And check that out.

The version that everyone knows is the. The play.

Play the play. But instead listen to the audiobook of the graphic. What. What even is that? I. I'm deeply curious.

Yeah, I love that. I think they did that with one of the Spider man, too. Spider man, the movie. The game. Yeah, it's just always funny. So, yeah, check out Le Mr.

Raw, the graphics novel. The audiobook. Because why not? Remember again, you can rate and review our show wherever you're listening.

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Even if you don't want to become a member on our website in the show's description we're also going to include specifically the link to our all reading counts page on the website.

Remember if you buy the long sleeve shirt, the glass mug, the whatever, anything you buy that says all reading counts even if it's the audio or just a donation on that page, whatever we get is going to be donated to our local libraries to support literacy because it's something we think is incredibly important and we hope you do too.

With all that said we do hope you all do one last thing and remember we're all a chosen people, the geekdom, a priest, even you Martians out there sa.