Jill Elizabeth and Kevin Schaefer dive into the cinematic treasure chest of Steven Spielberg, each revealing their top five favorite films from the legendary director. From making audiences fear the water to eliciting tears over an extraterrestrial friendship, Spielberg's films resonate on so many levels that narrowing it down is no easy feat. Kevin kicks off the discussion with some underrated gems, while Jill shares her nostalgic favorites that reveal personal insights into Spielberg's life, especially through the lens of family dynamics. They banter back and forth, sharing heartfelt opinions and clever observations, all while exploring how Spielberg’s storytelling has shaped the film industry and our collective imaginations. Whether it's the thrill of adventure or the warmth of family, this episode is a delightful celebration of a director whose work has left an indelible mark on cinema.

A deep dive into the cinematic brilliance of Steven Spielberg unfolds as Jill Elizabeth and Kevin Schafer reminisce about their favorite films from the legendary director. The conversation kicks off with an enthusiastic nod to Spielberg's knack for thrilling audiences, from the terror of Jaws to the heartwarming adventures of E.T. These two cinephiles share their personal top five Spielberg films, showcasing not only the iconic titles but also some underrated gems like The Adventures of Tintin. Kevin passionately articulates his affection for the film, highlighting the groundbreaking animation and the collaborative magic of Spielberg and Peter Jackson, while Jill reflects on how it deserves more love in the wider Spielberg discourse.

As they shift gears, they delve into the more personal side of Spielberg's work, particularly with The Fabelmans, a semi-autobiographical look at his childhood, which resonates deeply for its honest portrayal of family dynamics and the craft of filmmaking. As they navigate through childhood nostalgia and adult reflections, the duo examines how Spielberg's films have shaped their perspectives. They touch on themes of family, responsibility, and the passage of time, with Jill drawing poignant parallels between the characters' journeys and their own lives. Kevin's insights into the emotional core of films like Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Hook reveal a deeper understanding of Spielberg's artistry. The discussion also highlights the evolution of Spielberg's storytelling, emphasizing his ability to blend humor with heart-wrenching narratives. Ultimately, this episode serves as a love letter to Spielberg's body of work, celebrating the profound impact his films have had on audiences and filmmakers alike, while also sparking a conversation about representation and diversity in Hollywood.

Jill and Kevin take listeners on an enjoyable journey through the filmography of Steven Spielberg, exploring their top picks and the personal connections they hold. The episode highlights not only classic films like Raiders of the Lost Ark and Jurassic Park, but also lesser-known titles that deserve more recognition. They share anecdotes about their first encounters with these films and the emotions they evoke, painting a vivid picture of what Spielberg's work means to them. As they discuss the intricate layers of his storytelling, they reflect on the societal themes present in his films and the importance of representation in cinema. Their banter is peppered with humor and insightful observations, making for an engaging listen that resonates with both casual fans and die-hard cinephiles. By the end, listeners are left with a renewed appreciation for Spielberg's contributions to the film industry and an eagerness to revisit his timeless classics.

Takeaways:

• Jill and Kevin highlight how Spielberg's films have shaped our childhood experiences, from fear of sharks to the wonder of flying bikes.
• The duo emphasizes the unique storytelling in 'The Fabelmans' and how it offers insight into Spielberg's emotional journey and family dynamics.
• They discuss the underrated charm of 'The Adventures of Tintin,' showcasing its animation style and strong character development that often goes unnoticed.
• In this episode, they passionately debate the emotional depth of 'Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade,' focusing on the father-son relationship and its implications.
• Kevin argues that 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' lays the groundwork for Spielberg's exploration of spirituality and connection with extraterrestrial themes.
• They critique the lack of diverse voices in Spielberg's filmography while acknowledging his impact on cinema and the importance of evolving narratives.

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Listen to more of our film review episodes:

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Check out other episodes with Jill:

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Steven Spielberg has made us afraid to go in the water, believe a bicycle could fly, and cry over an alien. Somehow we even care deeply about a professor with a whip.

I am joined here by Kevin Schafer to talk a little bit about Steven Spielberg and our love, our fanhood of his movies. Hi, welcome.

Oh, Jill, I am stoked for this episode.

I texted you the other day when I was going to see Disclosure Day, and I'm like, okay, we've got to do this because we've done the Ryan Coogler episode, which was great. Did the Oscars one. But this is, you know, Spielberg season. We'll probably do, like, we'll definitely talk Disclosure Day at some point, but.

But it was a great time just to talk about our favorite Spielberg movies. And I'm so excited to hear your list and, you know, all the reasons and why not.

Yeah, I love it. I really loved that text. And basically we just said, let's get on and talk about Steven Spielberg and. And why don't we just go through our top five?

So today we're going to dive in. Top five movies for both of us. Before we get started on that, I do want to ask, what are you geeking out about right now?

Sure.

So I actually texted the whole systematic geekology group chat about this, but Widow's Bay is easily one of my favorite shows in I don't know how long. I mean, there's been a lot of great tv, like, lately and, you know, in recent years.

But this is an Apple TV series that just concluded its first season. Thankfully, it got renewed. But, yeah, speaking of Spielberg, there's a lot of Jaws influence here, particularly with the main character.

He's very much inspired by the mayor from Jaws, because he is the mayor of this island town somewhere off the coast of New England, and it has a long history of curses and superstitions. And he's trying to still be the businessman and like, but he genuinely, he's not as much of a character as, like, the mayor and Jaws.

Like, he genuinely cares about the people there, but he's trying to, you know, still build up business and restore the reputation of the town to the outside world.

But meanwhile, this, you know, crazy, weird stuff, horror stuff is happening all the time, and each episode functions like a Stephen King short story. There is still an overarching narrative, but all the. There's different horror elements in each episode. It's also the brilliant thing about it.

It's created by Katie Ditpold, who was a writer on Parks and Rec, and she's written like some Paul Feig movies and so very comedy background. It's as funny a show as it is scary. And like it perfectly merges horror and comedy. Phenomenal cast. Just phenomenal storytelling all around.

It's, I, I, I was like, I'm sad that season one is over, but I'm so glad it got renewed and I can't wait to tell more people about it and get more people interested because it's just superb storytelling all around.

I'm so excited to watch it now. I have seen it on the screen for Apple tv, but I had no idea what it was. I mean, I don't really love horror, but I'll take it in bite sized pieces.

So I think this might be okay.

For me and I think you would enjoy it because again, it is hilarious at that and it's not so much jump scares as it is like kind of playing on different horror motifs.

Like there's a Michael Myers type episode, there's an Evil Dead one, there's one dealing with like a mist type fog and all these things, but it, the cast alone will have you just sucked in right away.

Okay, good. I can't wait for it. So I am geeking out about spider noir and I think I came to it a little bit late and I keep turning it on really late at night.

So even though it's super entertaining, I'm only getting one episode and then I'm exhausted. So I think I'm on episode six right now and just loving it. Everything. Nicolas Cage embodying this character of Ben Reilly is perfection.

The, the actor that plays Jo Robertson.

Lamorne Morris. Yeah.

Yes. Oh my goodness. The two of them together. I just, I love the cast, I love the cinematography of this. It's fantastic.

It's one of those you watch and you're like, I didn't know I needed this. But it's everything I ever wanted like from, from like a multiverse story.

And I mean Nicolas Cage was perfect in the role in the spider verse animated movies, but seeing that particular version brought to live action. And Lamorne Morris is also one of my favorite character actors.

But I, well, and I'm a guy, like I'm also, I was watching it more like an episode or two at a time.

I kind of wish they had released it once a week because you get a lot of material per episode and I was kind of disappointed that they dropped it of the season at once because I like the weekly release format. But great show. Yeah.

I am just loving it. And it's like I can picture it As I never read this graphic novel series, but I can picture it exactly. They've done it so well.

And just like the throwback to Humphrey Bogart films. And Nicolas Cage even said that he hopes that this show gets particularly younger audiences to go and seek out classic film noir.

Yeah, I think it will for sure. Yeah.

Excellent choice.

Yeah, Very good. So we're ready. Let's dive in to our Steven Spielberg top five films. As we had texted, there are over 35 films to choose from.

So this is by no means an exhaustive list. No, very personalized, probably for the moment that we chose it.

I was debating up until when I texted you my list, and even then it could change tomorrow. And I, like, I felt like, like sacrilegious to leave some of the. My favorites out there.

But again, yeah, like I said, I mean, he, like, Like, I know we talked about the Ryan Coogler episode. Coogler is someone who, like, you know, he hasn't directed. Well, he's young too, but he hasn't directed like, a massive amount of movies.

Like, he's very. He and Edgar Wright, they kind of do. They work really hard on a movie every few years. And I mean, they always deliver out of the park.

But, like, yeah, it was easy to go through his entire filmography. But, um. But Spielberg, it's like, I mean, he's directed over 35. Like, it's so hard. And. And most are good or great.

I mean, yes, there are a few that are like, you know, not. Not as good. But I mean, when you make that many, you're bound to have like a few that are not masterpieces.

But it was so hard narrowing it down to a top five.

Yes. Can you go ahead and kick us off with what was your number five?

Let's do it. So my number five, I think, is one that is very underrated.

Let's see, I was in high school when it came out. I remember vividly going to see. This is one where I knew nothing about the character going in. Those particular comics weren't.

Not that they weren't accessible here, but like, it was. Even as a comics reader, like, it wasn't really a book I was familiar with.

And even Spielberg Actually the funny story, the way he discovered it was after Indiana Jones came out he read like an article, a review that said compared it to Tintin and he had never heard of it and then went and sought out the comic strips from Europe and fell in love and whereas Peter Jackson, who. This is the first thing I want to say about this movie is that sometimes when you have too many cooks in the kitchen it can be not work out as well.

But this is one where you have Spielberg, Peter Jackson and Edgar Wright working on the same movie. And it's beautiful smorgasbord of just some of my creative favorite creative voices out there. But Peter Jackson grew up a huge fan of the comics.

He said he used to read them like on lunch breaks at school. So he was a long time pursuing the project. But yes.

So both of us tonight are going to talk about a variety of whimsical, adventurous Spielberg movies and then the more quote unquote serious and the other ones with different themes and whatnot. This definitely falls to the category of, you know, classic Spielberg whimsical adventure, non stop action.

But it's amazing looking at this film that he really hadn't done any kind of animation before that he'd worked on projects and stuff but. And he was actually at one point attached to direct and animated Harry Potter before the original guy.

Yeah, that's a fascinating story there too, but which I'm kind of got.

That didn't work out like I like you know, the live actor ones as they were, but that was, you know, it's an interesting thought but an animated adaptation of Tintin. I love this type of animation where it.

It captures the motion capture performance technology that was made famous by Peter Jackson and Andy Serkis who are both heavily involved in this film. Jackson is a producer and Andy Serkis plays one of the chief characters. But oh, the animation is just so like unique. It's vibrant, it.

There's a particularly great sequence where kind of the classic oner where Tintin's like riding through the streets of Cairo and it does like all these big Indiana Jones type stunts.

Yes.

And it's masterfully executed. Yeah. This is just a movie I just really love. Are there, you know, you know, clips with the story? Sure.

But it's one where I had a blast the first time I saw it and I can't tell you how many times I've watched it ever since. I just. And it's not just the animation and the style and the aesthetic, but I really love the characters.

You know, Tintin as This like journalist who is, you know, a different type of Indiana Jones. Like, I mean, he has the similarities of being, you know, an explorer and an action hero, but he's more akin to like a Spider man kind of thing.

Like, you know, a younger inquisitive character and is kind of like not really seeking out action so much as, you know, as a story. Like he, like.

Whereas like Indiana Jones seeks out the artifacts and all the stuff, Tintin is obsessed with the narrative of where different treasures come from and. And he also wants to keep it from falling into the wrong hands. And then Captain Haddock, who Andy Serkis voices.

So fun.

Oh my gosh. Just one of the most delightful characters, you know.

I mean, yes, he's alcoholic for most of the movie, but they're able to kind of like make jokes about that for a kids movie, which is impressive. And then you have the pirate villain played by, voiced by Jason Isaacs. It's just a plus. Simon Pegg and Nick Frost.

I mean, it's just like one talent after another involved in this movie and a fun story too is we were just talking about conventions a minute ago before recording at GalaxyCon last year, I got the chance to meet Andy Serkis, which was in like all time.

So cool.

It was so, I mean, nicest guy you could possibly imagine. But on the way out I said, hey, I know it's not really in your control, but if Tintin 2 ever happens, I'm there opening night.

And he's like, you and me both. I want it to happen so much. I was like.

Because there's a whole story about that about like Peter Jackson supposed to direct the sequel, but it's been stuck in development for years and years. And I'm just like, oh, I want that movie so bad because it leaves it. Right. I mean, it's a very nice self contained film.

If this is the only Tintin movie we ever get, I'm still satisfied. But I would also watch five or six more in a heartbeat.

Yeah, I agree. I loved this movie. Yeah, it's such a delight.

Yeah.

And like, definitely underrated in his filmography.

I was like super surprised and happy to see that you chose this because I just think it's a standout for an adventure film, but one that's like hardly ever talked about. Especially because we have so many great like blockbuster hits from Spielberg.

No, it's just I, I was astounded by how little it's talked about. Like, I get if you don't love it as much as I do, but just how Much it compares to Indiana Jones.

I like, I don't know if it was just that it fell under the radar or what, but, you know, whenever I talk to fans of it like you, they love it too. But yeah, it's just not as much. It doesn't come up in Spielberg discussions nearly as much as I think it should.

And it also, I mean, watching the behind the scenes commentary, it looks like they had a blast making it too. Like, you just feel the joy all around, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's a classic. Yeah. Good choice.

Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, Jo, I'm very curious here what your number five pick is because again, it's, it's a tough to pick to narrow it down.

It is tough. My number five was the Fabelmans, which is probably the last Spielberg movie that I saw that at least that I could think of.

And there is a line from Ted Lasso that I think about all the time. He says, when Rebecca's mom comes to visit, he says, oh, I just love meeting people's moms. It's like a window into why they're crazy.

I love it.

And I feel like this movie, we get this, it's autobiographical about his family, his life growing up, his siblings. And it's just like a little window into why he is the quirky human that he is.

And when you see his mom, played by Michelle Williams and all of her eccentric characteristics and that she owns a monkey, like all of the things, I just, I loved this. It gives me such a window into why he made the movies that he did, why he was so passionate about film making.

And then of course, I had a little bit of, we have a lot of Steven Spielberg lore here in Phoenix because he spent a lot of his childhood here. I think they moved when he was like a young teen, maybe still in like Boy Scouts age. He moved here.

And actually my friend lives in a house that's next door to his family home. And there's like a story, I'm not sure if it's true, but that he fell out of this tree that's in her yard and broke his arm.

Oh, wow.

But I go to the Little Phoenix theater here, which they have their own Steven Spielberg entrance. Like, we, we definitely love him here in Phoenix. And I loved getting to see so much of my home in this movie. I, I, I just loved it.

And I, I also feel like it doesn't really get talked about enough. I was glad that it was nominated for an Oscar, but I think it was a really big year.

There were A lot of great films, and this one sort of got overlooked.

This one came very close to making my list. I also love it and I do have an old tease, but I have another Spielberg, Tony Kushner collaboration that did make my list, but this came very close.

And I was listening to a podcast the other day, and one of the hosts on there said that the Fable Men's changes the way you look at every other Spielberg movie, like past and present. And even with. Part of the reason we're doing this episode now is because Disclosure Day came out just this past weekend.

And when I was watching that, I also thought about Fable Men's because, yeah, it is the. I mean, sure, it is still technically fictional, but. But it's very semi autobiographical.

And I think what I love about it the most is it never judges either of the parents. Like, I mean, it's very honest commentary and it shows how, yeah, I mean, he's very open about this.

How from his father he inherited the technical skills that he has as a filmmaker and the attention to detail. And from his mother he inherited the emotional artistic side.

And you know, and like, because he, like one of, you know, Spielberg critics will often say he's too sentimental and whatnot, which I think is, you know, incredibly narrow minded, but. Because again, when you look at the fusion of emotional depth and sentimentality and the technical wizardry in his films.

But I love how he talks about it from both. And yes, he clearly had resentment toward both of his parents for different reasons growing up, and he's not shying away from that.

But he also shows them as very human and in the same way that he is. And, you know, I mean, he struggled in his own adult life and with his kids early on and. Right.

And I mean, he went through a previous marriage and so, you know, all like. And I mean, I think the best meme about the Fable Men's is like, yeah, men would rather go become Oscar winning filmmakers that go to therapy.

I was like, do anything to avoid therapy.

Which is pretty spot on in this case because, yeah, like Spielberg has said he hasn't gone to therapy in decades, but he's met. But, but film for him is like the way he processes his emotions. And this is by far the most vulnerable he's ever been.

And I love watching the commentaries here too, where him and Tony Kushner talk about the writing process and, and yeah, they wrote this during COVID but yeah, it's. It's an absolutely phenomenal film.

I also think it doesn't get talked about enough and I wish more people had seen it when it came out, but I think it's starting to get more recognition and I hope, I mean it's, it's very, I mean it was very well received critically like you said was nominated for an Oscar. Rightfully so. But. But yeah, I just wish like more people had gone out to see it in theaters because it is one of his just all time greatest selves.

Yep, I agree. And I just want to say one more thing about it.

I think we're so lucky that he made it at the age that he was because of everything you mentioned before. He can be so generous with his parents. His dad had already passed. I'm not actually sure about how old his mom.

I, Yeah, I have to look still with us. I think she has passed now, but she might have been still, still alive when he was making it, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah.

Where if he's making this movie in his 30s, it is not nearly as kind to either parent.

100%. Yeah, I mean, I mean Noah Khan is one of my favorite musicians today.

And like, and I mean sometimes like his, I mean he's very, he's younger than I am and his albums go deep into his like family history and I'm like, there's an element of uncomfortable. But his family is very supportive, so that's cool. Um, but you know, and, and, and he does what? And he's very like supportive of his family.

He's, you know, open about how we all go through mental health struggles.

But yes, I agree if this had been made like when he was much younger, it would have come across as angry towards parents where now it's I think a beautiful reflection. And it, and, and again it, it highlights their positive qualities and their humanity and all the messiness that comes with that.

Yep. And it gives us a lens to all of his other films like you said. And I'm sure that will come up later too.

But moving along, I would love to hear about your number four pick.

Absolutely. I'm actually wearing the shirt right now. You are. I know this one is audio, but.

But yeah, Close Encounters of the Third Kind is one of my all time favorite sci fi movies. Spielberg movies.

I mean I, of course I love ET I also, I did really enjoy Disclosure Day and I think like all three work together as companion pieces to one another. And there with Close Encounters, there's several things about it that are really fascinating. For one, it is pretty minimal dialog.

Like you don't really learn, I mean you learn a lot about the characters but you also not, you know, talking, you know, fablements is something again, written by co. Written by Tony Kushner. So it has very much like a playwright lens to it. It's a lot of dialogue, a lot of characterization.

This is, you know, long stretches of the movie go without any dialogue. And it's a lot of just your performances through the physicality and the facial expressions.

And the closing is one of my all time favorite Spielberg sequences. This extended scene where the aliens arrive. And it has one of the all time best John Williams scores.

I mean, I know we could say that about pretty much any of the movies on our list, but this one especially is just one of his all time greats. And it's fine, you know, building on what we were just talking about, about his parents and the personalization.

So, you know, Richard Dreyfus's character is not the most likable.

I mean, like I, and I was just rewatching it a few weeks ago and I was like, oh, yeah, it still bothers me that the guy, like, I mean, I like the wonder element and the way he's, you know, he feels this higher calling to seek out the aliens and he knows there's something out there, but also he abandons his family and you know, and it doesn't, the movie doesn't definitively say if him and the other woman run off together or not, but they have, you know, some kind of like flirtatious affair. And you know, that always bothered me. But I also think, like, it was never an intention to make the character flawless by any chance.

Like, this was very much, you know, building on his experiences, tapping into his childhood in the same way that ET does, in the same way that so many of his other films do. So I like that he's not, you know, a perfect protagonist. That doesn't mean I, you know, I like him.

But, but going back to the sense of wonder and that higher calling, the spiritual sense, that, yeah, I like how all, you know, and this very much comes back to Disclosure Day as well, which highly recommend, seeing if you haven't already. But yeah, this, Spielberg's fascination with connecting an element of spirituality to the existence of extraterrestrials I think is fascinating.

And, oh, I mean, the, the mashed potatoes scene when he's building that, I mean, all time Classic there. I love it. I mean, that. Like, there's that.

Yeah, it's just one of those where it says so much without a lot of dialogue, and I think it leaves room for different interpretations every time. And again, very much. I'm like, after seeing Fabelman's and after following Spielberg's career for so many years. Yeah.

You view it with a different lens on rewatches, and I love that about this movie. It's just, you know, it. It's not one where it's like, okay, yeah, easy to dissect. Easy. But, you know, there's like, a lot of rich themes here. And.

And this came out the same year as Star Wars. I mean, what 77 was. Yeah, yeah.

I don't think I realized that. I don't. I don't often think about, like, release dates of movies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's one of the few, too. Like, typically, Spielberg does collaborate with a screenwriter or.

I mean, he's always very involved in the process, but. But this is one he wrote solo and. Yeah. So it really is one. One of his most personable films. And.

And again, connecting it with ET And Disclosure Day, now, I think that just works as a perfect trilogy.

Oh, good. I'm excited to see Disclosure Day for that reason.

Yeah. Yeah.

When I think about this movie, I think a lot of this theme of that you touched on, like, personal responsibility, responsibility to your family, versus, like, a calling, a spiritual calling, and what takes more precedence. And not that, like, one choice is right or wrong, but that each following either one would have consequences. Yeah. And we do.

We just kind of get to see that. And I think that's a theme in a lot of his movies. And this is maybe the first time that you get to see it played out.

And I also like, too, how it doesn't give major details at the end about, okay, what happens after this. Like, do the aliens just leave or do they form some kind of connection with humanity? Because it compares a lot.

Have you ever seen the Day the Earth Sits still? Like the original, the 50s film?

So that's a great one where it's about an alien trying to establish contact with humanity, and he kind of issues a challenge to world nations at the end to work together. And. And it's a very optimistic zygote film. I think this was heavily inspired by it. But, yeah, I like how, you know, they. They arrive.

There's this sense of awe and wonder, but you don't know exactly what purpose. Are they just visiting? Are they trying to, you know, deliver a message to humanity.

I like how it just does this amazing extended sequence and then it leaves you to your own imagination to see what happens after that.

Yep. More questions than answers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like.

Which. Yeah. Which I recognize not everyone's cup of tea, but that's actually what I really like about this. And disclosure day, E.T.

I think has a more definitive, like, narrative in that sense. But. But there's a Disclosure day ask more questions than provide answers. And I think there's certainly a place for that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

My number four was Hook. And yeah, honestly, it's my number one, but I just feel embarrassed to say that.

Don't be embarrassed. Oh, I. It can't.

Like, really the only reason it didn't make my list is, like, because it's also one of my ultimate is again, just the, like trying to narrow this down, but.

Right.

Oh, I'm. I'm a millennial. I love Hook so much and I.

Have no shame in saying that so much. So it's a story about what happens when Peter Pan grows up. And I love the mythology of Peter Pan.

I will watch it in any genre, played out in any way, whatever adaptation. I always enjoy a Peter Pan story. And Robin Williams is just one of my favorite actors of all time.

He always will be seeing Robin Williams as a grown up Peter Pan that has to go back to Neverland to rescue his children and just remember who he is and connect with that childhood spirit that's inside of him. It's so good. It's just brilliant.

The whole cast is great, but the thing that makes me love it so much and now I can't even watch it without just sobbing my eyes out the whole time is, you know, I believe that our capacity for joy is directly related to our capacity for sorrow. I just think it's a pendulum that swings and. And Robin Williams is one of those people that can give us, like, want to tear up when I think about it.

Oh, I know, I know. Oh, yeah, yeah.

He can give us so much joy. And you can see it's in him. It lives in him. Which means that. That.

That other pendulum swing means he is capable of such deep sorrow and sadness and depression.

Yep.

Which ultimately ended up being the reason that he lost his life. And there's a line at the end of the movie where he says, so the line in the book, the Peter Pan book is to die. Now.

That would be the greatest adventure. But in the movie, Peter Pan says, now to live. That would be an awfully great adventure. And I just sob, cry.

I get why not everyone connected with this movie. And I mean, as Spielberg famously.

I want to be necessarily regrets making it, but he had like, frustrations with it and like, wasn't as high, you know, when he came out of it,.

He said there was some pacing issues and he would have written the second act differently. I actually think it's perfect just the way it is. I don't want to change anything.

I do too. I mean, it's one. Like, even if I hadn't grown up on it, I, I don't know. I think even if I, like, let's just say it was.

I was an adult, I hadn't seen it a thousand times. Like I have and I was watching for this time. I feel like I would still find the joy in it and how good it.

And it's interesting too, because I was listening to a commentary the other day. You're trying to get an idea of like, why people don't like it as much. And there are some people.

There was a guy saying like, well, it's a real tonal inconsistency because, like the end of the movie basically just has him reverting back to childhood. And I'm like, I don't think it's that.

It's the, like, I think if he, if the character right, you know, let's say like reverted back to childhood and like went to childhood fantasies, that would mean himself staying in Neverland, abandoning his family and running off with. Mm. Like, I. What I love about the ending, he didn't do that.

What I love about it is, like you said, he reconnects with his childhood to become a better father. And you know, it's not. I, I don't see it as.

When he gets back to England with his family, oh, he's going to forever, you know, you know, throw away all his responsibilities. No, he's making a conscious decision to be present in the moment.

Yes.

For his family. And like, he's. Yeah, he may get a different job after that. I hope he does because, like, but, but like, it's more. Okay.

I'm not going to prioritize a business meeting over being there for my kid, you know? And like, I mean, that's a beautiful message. Like, I mean, and I never understood why people think, like, that's like totally inconsistent.

But no, I love Hook and oh, I mean Robin Williams. I know we could do a whole episode on this, but I mean, one of my all time. I mean, not just like favorite actors, but creative inspirations.

I mean, I. That's one celebrity Death that I will remember exactly where I was, how heartbroken I was. Like, I mean, that.

That one literally just got me and ripped. Because that was just so foundational to my childhood and inspired me to be a creative person. So.

Yeah, no, and have you read the biography Robin by David Scoff? No. Okay. Yeah, I don't know, it might break down too, but it, but it's also fascinating too. It's not just heartbreak.

It's a really fascinating insight into his life too. But I mean, you'll still cry. But it's a great book though.

Yeah. Okay, I'll put it on my list.

Yeah, yeah, but. And also, quick plug. We did a drive in episode of Hook, I think last year. I think it was me and Evan did that. And so. Yeah, that.

Yeah, I mean, so, so, I mean, that one's not super long, but. Yes, my love of this movie is well documented elsewhere as well.

Very good. We'll go back to this then.

Yeah.

And then our. So we only had one movie in our list of five that had overlap. And for you, it was your number one or. No, your three.

Yeah, yeah, it's your.

Oh, it was my number one. Yes, it was my number one.

Yeah, yeah.

So go ahead, you can kick us off with it.

So when it comes to the debate about which is the best Indian Jones movie, I mean, of course I love Raiders, but.

But it's no question, for me, my favorite has always been Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, because as much as I love Raiders, the Lost Ark, I think Last Crusade, the emotional epicenter that drives it, culminating with the great action sequences and all the stuff about Indy that we love. But it's that emotional epicenter of obviously the father son story and having.

And it's so meta to have Sean Connery play Indiana Jones father, mainly because not only because, you know, they have such good chemistry, but also Spielberg famously tried to get the rights to direct Indiana to direct James Bond and you know, was. Kept getting. Kept getting denied.

And you know, that's when George Lucas said, hey, I've got a better idea, you know, and they conceived Indiana Jones together, so. And I mean, I'm kind of glad he didn't.

I mean, yes, Bond movie sounds awesome, but if that meant we never got Indiana Jones, like, I'm totally okay with that. It never happened. I'm also not like the hugest Bond fan I know. That's like. But yeah, I like Indiana Jones better, so.

But getting Sean Connery to play the father, it's a perfect story there. And they play off each other so well. But also the Fate story also comes into play here where, like, I think it builds on Raiders perfectly.

Because I think, I mean, as much as Raiders is a big, pulpy adventure story, you know, there's still definitely an element of faith that revolves around them finding the Lost Ark.

And I would say Indiana Jones in that movie, you know, he still has a reverence for the cultural and historic elements of, you know, every piece of archeology he's seeking out. And same goes with the Lost Ark, but he's not necessarily, you know, a faithful person when it comes to that. I mean, he has like.

I mean, yes, he covers his eyes at the end when he knows that the Nazis are getting destroyed by what's clearly a supernatural power. But even then, it's not so much that he.

He still has an element of cynicism and reservation when it comes to all that, much like, you know, Han Solo not believing in the Force. But with Last Crusade, he. It really pushes him to literally take a leap of faith.

And I love that exchange when they find the Holy Grail and he meets with the knight there and, oh, it's just such a great scene.

But, yeah, Last Crusade just has everything I want in a movie from, you know, like right down to, you know, the like 15 minute or so origin with the younger Indiana Jones.

With River Phoenix.

Yeah, River Phoenix playing him. He nails it. And I love the line where he's like, it's just a snake. Calm down. You know, like I did the origin of why he's afraid of snakes.

And that's a great sequence. It. The cut. When it cuts from him as a younger Indiana Jones to Harrison Ford saying, that belongs in a museum.

It's a perfect transition from that point on. It just gets better and better. The action's great again, the emotional core is what drives it. There's heart and humor throughout.

It just, you know, I mean, I. I know they made two movies after that, but. Yeah, I mean, like this. Yeah, yeah, that's fair, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah.

Like, I mean, I don't know if you've ever read the Frank Darabont script. That would have been a good follow up, but still, Last Crusade, it's where it should have. He should have read into the sunset.

It was the perfect ending. But, yeah, I just. I love this movie.

Yeah, I agree. I think everything about it is perfect. Yeah.

Yeah.

I just love it. I love the whole father son thing. And like, going back to.

I'm glad we talked about the Fabelmans Early, I feel like this is the movie that we most get to know his dad, like Steven Spielberg's dad through his eyes in this film. And I like, really love at the end, Sean Connery calls him Indiana.

Yes.

Because that's not his name. And he never calls him that. And he kind of looks up and says, what? And he goes, just let it go.

Yep, yep.

Oh, and then, and then I think one of my favorite scenes is when they're on the plane and Indy is trying to open up to his father about like, how, like, look, we never even had like a, you know, hard, dark conversation. And he's like, okay, but like, Andy's, what do you want to talk about? Like, I like it. And then he's just like, I can't think of anything.

And he's like, well, what are you complaining about? Like, I love exactly so much. Like, he's just so oblivious to like. And then, you know, it makes the, you know, heart to heart that they do have.

Later when he thinks for a minute that that and he died and he just pours his heart out. It's such a beautiful, you know. And yeah, it's like, it's surprising that Sean Connery never played other iconic like.

Well, I mean, he's offered, he was offered roles like Gandalf for instance, and turned it down. It would have been interesting. But here it's just a perfect pairing. They have such good chemistry. The heart and humor is there.

The villains are great. It's. Yeah, it's. I mean, again, love Raiders, but there, there's never been a, like, contest there for me in terms of which is my favorite.

Same, same. And I love all three. To me, sure, the franchise ended with Last Crusade. I don't even talk about those other two, but that's fair.

It was really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then my number three was the classic, the dinosaur classic Jurassic Park.

Heck yeah.

And this is probably the first movie I remember really being terrified in the theater. Even though I have memories. I've seen Ghostbusters, but I don't think Ghostbusters was scary for me. I think I was too little to really be scared.

I just thought it was like fantastical. But like I was scared out of my pants watching Jurassic park as an 11 year old in the theater with my dad. And then it's so fun.

Like our movie theater here in Arizona we have Harkins. It's a family owned movie theater franchise. And they do like movie classics. So my dad was able to take my kids when they were little.

They were maybe 6 and 7. And he took them to see Jurassic park and they were also scared.

I can only imagine. I kind of went because I mean, so I was actually born the year Jurassic park came out, same year list came out.

And like, so, you know, I didn't have the theatrical experience there. I don't remember exactly how old I was when I watched it. But no, I mean it's a visceral experience the first time you see it.

And the way, I mean the way technology had changed so much just that year, like, and right after Terminator 2, this era that I grew up on, on CG and motion capture technology, like this was what was paving the way for that. And yeah, I mean like, you know, I'm, I'm not like the biggest Jurassic park buff. Like, no diss to it.

It's just like I, I don't know the like trivia and stuff as much as. And it's not like my all time favorite franchise. Now granted, this is one. I think it should have been one movie. That's just my.

Because I think it's more like a. Nothing ever tops the. The original for one, but also like it's more premise driven. Like same how Jaws shouldn't have had sequels.

That's just my opinion. Yeah, yeah, I get that.

We just need one, right?

Like Indiana Jones, perfect franchise. But yeah, there's others where, yeah, you, you hit the ultimate high here. You don't need to, you know, go any more than that.

But yeah, but it's an all time classic. I know it's, you know, a favorite movie for so many and rightly so.

This one does deserve a little honorable mention. I was talking about with my husband today. This is the first movie also, so I'm 11, maybe 12 when I see it.

And it was the first moment that I had like a. I don't even know if I like a sexual awakening. But it was the first time I saw an actor that I was like, oh, that's a good looking man. And it was Jeff Goldblum.

I mean like, who else were you going to say? I can. I could have finished the sentence for you. But. Yeah, yeah, but in the black shirt.

With the buttons like halfway down to his belly button, there was a little bit of chest hair coming out. I mean.

Yep.

Just sex.

I love. Oh yeah. I love how now like he's more almost like comedy and meme icon. Like, but, but I mean like so. But. Oh yes.

He was like the dude at that time, you know, especially in that movie.

Yes.

Yeah.

And then that I, I still think one of the most terrifying moments is like the doorknob moving.

Yeah.

Because the T. Rex is on the other side. You know, that figures out how to open the door and get into that hotel kitchen. Just, it's brilliantly done.

And I mean, to talk about a perfect ensemble cast. Like, fun fact too is that Harrison Ford was offered the role. Sam Neill's character, he turned it down.

I'm glad he didn't take it.

I mean, that's the thing. Like, it's like, yes, of course he could have fit that perfectly, but Sam Neill made it iconic. There's not a cast member I would change here.

I agree. Casting is perfect. Okay, we're, we're getting close to number one, but let's hear your number two, please. I love this one.

This was a, like, so as I teased earlier, I had a Spielberg, Tony Kushner collaboration on here. So I mean, you and I both have theater backgrounds. Like we talked about that.

And like I, and for me, like, there, I think there was a long dry spell of movie musicals. Like, good. What? There just wasn't for.

I'll talk about that another time. And then west side Story, which is like, which when Spielberg first announced it, I mean, I know there were fans of the original.

They were like, oh, do we need a remake of that? And what I love about this is like. And he even says like, because he has so much reverence for the original film.

But I wouldn't even call this a remake so much as Spielberg's interpretation of the stage musical. And bringing it to cinematic life, he adds his own unique vision. I mean, because I, because I, I watched the 60s film right before I saw this.

And yeah, I mean, there, it's like, I guess you can compare. And of course Rita Moreno is in both. But like, there's a legacy element in this one, but they're two totally different films.

And I mean, the script is unique, the, even the way the songs are done.

But this is one where watch when I was watching it with my dad first time because like my, because my dad's a like a huge fan of just the show in general. Like his high school did west side Story.

So we both just, you know, loved the film and, and for LSE, because Spielberg is like 80 now, so I mean he was like mid 70s then when it came out for him to make this at that age. And to me and, and yes, of course a lot of other collaborators are deserve proper credit here.

Janus Kaminsky, the cinematographer, the choreography, Tony Kushner screenplay, it all comes together so well. But the way Spielberg makes such electrifying sequences, I'm particularly thinking of America here, the way that song is done.

Because in the 60s film, not that it's not great, but it's them on a rooftop singing here it starts off in Bernardo and Anita's apartment and from there you almost feel like it's a one shot just because the way the camera moves and the way the scene flows. But it goes from the apartment to going outside into the city and goes all over and it brings to life this vibrant community.

And even though it's a tragic story, that's one of the most uplifting moments in the film. And I mean Even just on YouTube, I watch that one song with the, with the scene from the film over and over again.

It's just, it's just the perfect movie musical it had, I mean and it brought such great performances from Ariana DeBose, Mike Feist, who side note is still my pick to play Harry Osborne in the mcu. He plays Riff in this. I thought, yeah, I think he would be great in that. But, but.

And then Bernardo, Rachel Zegler is Maria and then having Rita Moreno return to the. It's just, oh, it's Chef's kiss there and I, I am aware of like Ansel Algor, not a great person.

And also like I, I do hate that like the allegations about him like I think did taint the film and like not many people, as many people watched in theaters as I wish they had because it's a. But you know, but I love the rest of the cast. So like. But, but yeah, this has become an annual watch for me, especially around the holidays.

I love watching it around like Thanksgiving, Christmas.

It's just, it's just a, it's heartbreaking, electrifying and again, again I know keep coming back to Tony Kushner, but you know, one of the all time great playwrights and he wrote this and he co wrote Fabelman's and he wrote Munich and Lincoln. So him and Spielberg go way back and it's, this is a perfect collaboration with them where this is a perfect adaptation musical.

So absolutely love this movie.

Yeah, I love it. I agree. I have only seen it once, but now you're kind of inspiring me by saying that it's an annual watch for you. I'm going to.

I'm going to revisit it and for sure revisit the America song. I love Rita Moreno. Like, in the original. I just love her. Who plays Anita?

Ariana Duffy. And that's one of the coolest things, is they both won Oscars for the same.

It's one of the few times in Oscars 3 where two different actors have won an Oscar for the same role. The others are like, De Niro and Marlon Brando for playing Vito Corleone, and then Joaquin Phoenix and Heath Ledger for Joker.

Okay. Oh, that's cool. That's a really neat back. Yeah, I love that. So I will revisit this. It's interesting.

Even though it is, you know, it's an adaptation, it still is. Like so many of the classic themes, it's like family, like, you know, beauty and tragedy playing this dance between the two of each other.

There's so much compassion. It's.

And the immigrant experience and all the, like, the themes that plan to that, like, the opening shot is construction going on at the Lincoln center and. And. And just talking about gentrification and like, all those, like, it gives so much more agency, I think, to the sharks in this movie than.

Yeah.

And Bernardo and all them.

Than the original.

The original one does, absolutely. Yeah.

It also helps as a viewer, especially like a younger viewer, I would think.

I don't consider myself a younger viewer, but to be able to say, like, oh, I understand these issues that are happening right now, and they're not new.

Exactly.

It was the same. The same struggle in the 60s that was the same struggle in the 40s that actually. In the 20s. Yeah.

One. One.

America's going to America.

Yep. America. America. And that's what I love. I think this is going to speak to so many generations. Yeah, yeah.

It's a classic. It's a true classic. And it's. He did it so well. My number two is probably a lot of people's number one, but it's E.T. Extraterrestrial.

It's just, you know, now that you said it's a trilogy, it's the second movie in a brilliant trilogy exploring what could be out there beyond Earth as far as intelligent life. And he's just the cutest alien. This is the most 80s movie I can imagine. There's so much of it that reminds me of my childhood.

I think of my siblings and their childhood as well.

They I'm quite a bit younger than my siblings and if Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is how we get Spielberg's father through his eyes, this is, I think, how we get his mother.

Absolutely.

Really, it's a commentary on divorce and on family and it's optimistic, really. It's hopeful, it's honest. It's an honest look at family. I love it.

And one of my favorite memes when I was a young mom was something that said if you feel guilty about things like getting lost in your house, just like, don't even think about it. The mom from ET had an alien living in her home for a month and she didn't even know.

She had no idea. Yep, yep. I, I, I, I. It is one of the all time greats of them being able to conceal that it was the best.

But yeah, and the child actors there, like when young Drew Barrymore, young Henry Thomas and like, and it was so cool because I, I was watching a podcast with Spielberg the other day talking about Disclosure day, but he talked about ET at one point and he said that like Drew Barrymore, Eric Thomas, all them, like they genuinely like thought the alien above it was so real. And they like interacted with it when the cameras weren't rolling and there was, that's how he knew. They were just such gifted actors.

But like, but not only that, but they generally believed it and it just made it all the better.

Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. Let me hear about your number one, please.

So this was an interesting one too because again, like, I could easily pick Hulk, I could easily pick Jaws, but in terms of one that is not as optimistic, but I think actually has a hopeful message, even though it's got predominantly darker elements. But Minority Airport is one of, I think my favorite Spielberg firm Spielberg film and one of my all time favorite sci fi movies. This concept of.

And with social media.

Yes. Oh my gosh, there's so much.

You can look at it because I mean, you know the concept of this future police organization that can detect crime before it happens and it examines the ethics of that. And what I love about the film is it starts off with you rooting for that system because like they're like, hey, this sounds kind of ideal.

It's for their like, crime rates are way down, it's preventing murders and assaults and Everything like this sounds ideal. Like, who would I want this?

And then as the story progresses and the protagonist is the victim of the flaws within this system, then you go on this rapid journey and, you know, I mean, I love film noir. Like, you were talking about spider noir earlier, so I love, you know, that genre and Blade Runner and all that and, you know, the technology.

So cool. Of course, you know, I mean, Tom Cruise, I have my own opinions about him as a person, but no one can. I mean, of course I love his movies.

I mean, no one can deny that the man is like a gifted action star. And this very much showcases that. But not just that. Like, he's ranged as a performer as well.

I think he really commits to this role as in terms of fatherhood, you know, this guy who lost his son, he blames himself for it and he's on a mission there of kind of redemption while being hunted down by this police force.

But the reason I say that, even though this film is much darker and maybe different from a lot of other Spielberg films, but also, I think still has an optimistic ending, is because it examines all these elements of, you know, what. What would a utopian society require? You know, what could technology fix so much of things?

Like, could we put more faith in systems and all this stuff? But, you know, it recognizes the power of humanity ultimately by the end of it.

Because, you know, when they are willing to say, like, hey, we're not willing to sacrifice even one life for quote, unquote, the greater good, you know, like it.

And.

And, yes, you know, with the end of the movie, doesn't mean crime is going to skyrocket after that. I don't know. But I still think it reveals that humanity is, at its core, still has strength and still has something worth fighting for.

So I think that's what I take away from the movie the most. This is another one. I know we were running out of time, but anyway.

But I will say, if you want to go to a more in depth discussion of this one, we actually did an episode last year with Dr. Tom Ward on this movie where we went deep into the philosophical and theological themes. So check that one out. Like, I. I feel like I was way out of my league there, talking Dr. Ord and then Andy, like, I was on there.

I'm like, okay, y' all are making me feel like. Like I have one degree. I'm not doctor here, but. But it was a great discussion, so.

I bet I do.

Yeah. But I love this movie. I think it's one of his most inventive Just most rewatchable. And even there is still humor embedded in there.

It's thrilling from start to finish. Yeah. I just love it all around.

Yeah. I love. I really. I'm gonna go back and find that episode because, like Dr. Ord, I am an open and relational theologian, and I think this movie.

I can imagine the discussions that you had about the choice of free will and control and certainty versus letting people do what they will do.

Yep, exactly.

Yeah. And I just think I also loved this movie. It's probably the first science fiction movie that I liked.

I thought, oh, this is a genre that's available for me. I do like this. Yeah. And now I have lots that I've watched. But it's the idea that that's not really why crime happens.

Like, crime exists because of injustice. That's not really the thing that they're trying to tackle.

Sure, sure.

Most. Most grime.

Right.

But I love it. And we're rounding up, and I know we have to finish up.

So we haven't really talked about maybe some of the things we don't love about Steven Spielberg films and what could be missing. I'll just say for me, like, quickly, it's. He is who he is, and we know that we approach art from our own social location.

And so there's a little bit of a DEI problem in a lot of the movies. All the ones that we've mentioned, like, the main characters, if they're human, are white males. The heroes are white males.

And we get definitely, like, a Jewish perspective. And in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, we get a Christian perspective.

But we're missing some other voices he addresses a little bit more in Munich, which we didn't talk about, but I just think is another great film about nuance and religious nuance.

Sure.

And faith. That was probably the only critique I would have for now.

I agree there. I was even thinking about recording it before this episode.

I'm like, man, I do love Tintin, but it's like, they don't have a single female character or anything. It's like, it's. It's all dudes and, like. And, I mean, I would love to show my niece and nephews that one, you know, but, like, I.

But I think about that with my niece, I was like, I want to show her, like, you know, strong female characters and, like, a range of stories here. I'm still waiting for them to want to sit down and watch Hook, because I've been checked, because my.

My niece even did a Peter Pan unit in school this year. And I was like, have you heard of Hook? And she's like, no, that sounds boring. I was like, I'm not going to force you to.

But I mean, she's nine, so, like, I'll give her time. But yes, yes, one day we will. And I. I really do hope she likes it. But. But yes, I. I agree. I mean, I. You know, and like, yeah, that's.

That's probably. Would be my main. Because I don't really have the criticism in terms of, you know, oh, they're too sentimental.

Because as we've talked about, I think they're like. Because of. Especially learning more about the background. I think he really does fuse the sort of. He has.

Can have cold nature characters and very emotional ones and very emotional movies. So I think he's done a range of that.

But, yes, I think more voices and maybe, you know, and I think that might help with, like, maybe working with different collaborators. Like, as much as I love him collaborating with Tony Kushner and David Koepp and some others, like, I would love for him to see.

To see him work with, like, more female writers. And, yeah, I would just be curious to see what kind of. What he does with his remaining years.

Yeah, I still love him. And it's just. It's a critique. We should critique the things we love.

Sure.

I heard him in an interview recently in New York Times, the Daily, and he said that he gets together with a group of directors regularly and they paint monsters at Guillermo del Toro's mansion, which I know.

I mean, I know del Toro has, like, probably one of the coolest houses ever to exist. Like, an. And I would love to see that at some point. But, yeah, that's just a nerd fantasy.

Amazing. Right? And then I'm just thinking, like, well, I hope some of those directors will maybe just hold his feet to the fire a little bit.

Right.

Like, we can imagine him there with Guillermo del Toro and Ryan Coogler and saying, like, love your films. How about we talk about this? Or would you ever consider making a movie that didn't send her white males?

Right, right, right. Absolutely. And it's like Disclosure Day. I would say, like, even a little more with, like, Emily Blunt and Josh o' Connor are kind of both the leads.

But. And Colman Domingo. Oh, is great in it, too. But. But, yes. But, yes, I agree. I think it's like, yeah, we've done a lot of white male stories.

Let's branch out a little more.

Yeah.

And then now that I have fallen in love with Black Panther and gotten killmongers view on museums that the very first thought I had after I left Black Panther was, well, wait a second. I've been thinking my whole life that artifacts belong in a museum because Indiana Jones said that. But maybe not.

Maybe they actually belong with the people that should own them.

I love it.

European museums.

Even if they do a podcast like Spielberg and Ryan Coogler together, that would be great to talk about that.

I know it could be out there. We should just search maybe.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for joining me, Kevin. This is great.

Oh, I could easily talk for hours on this. I know. Like, oh, this was a blast.

Yeah. Thank you. And we would love to hear from you, the audience. We'd love to hear what are your favorite Spielberg films and what do you think we missed?

I'm sure there were some gross errors here and you let us know and if this was enjoyable to you, we ask that you like or subscribe to our podcast. Thanks so much.

Thanks everyone.