Joshua Noel and former host Nick Polk dive into the intriguing political landscape of the Jak and Daxter gaming franchise, exploring how it mirrors today's American politics. They kick things off by examining the manipulative tactics of characters like Baron Praxis and Cyber Errol, drawing parallels to real-world political figures. The chat takes a nostalgic turn as they reminisce about their experiences with the series, highlighting how the games transitioned from lighthearted platformers to darker narratives filled with complex political themes. With a witty banter and clever insights, they dissect the implications of power, accountability, and the moral quandaries faced by the characters, all while maintaining a light-hearted vibe. Tune in for a blend of gaming nostalgia and political commentary that showcases how even video games can reflect and critique society.

Delving into the intricate parallels between the world of American politics and the fictional political landscape of Haven City from the beloved Jak and Daxter series, this episode is a delightful blend of nostalgia and insightful commentary. Joshua Noel and guest Nick Polk explore the evolution of these iconic games, highlighting the stark contrast between the whimsical adventures of the original Jak and Daxter and the darker, more politically charged narratives of its sequels, Jak 2 and Jak 3. The duo cleverly draws comparisons between characters like Baron Praxis and Cyber Errol to contemporary political figures, using humor and wit to engage listeners in a conversation about power, governance, and the complexities of leadership. Throughout their discussion, they reminisce about their childhood experiences with these games, reflecting on how their understanding of the storylines has matured over time.

With a relaxed and informal tone, the hosts encourage listeners to consider the implications of political actions, both in the game and in real life, with an emphasis on the importance of being aware of those in power. They also touch on themes such as manipulation, rebellion, and the often-blurred lines between good and evil in politics, all while keeping the conversation light-hearted with clever banter and playful jabs at well-known political figures.

In the latter part of the episode, Joshua and Nick shift gears to discuss the characters' motivations and their impact on the narrative. They delve into the complexity of Baron Praxis’s regime, drawing parallels to historical and current events, and discussing how the narrative reflects real-world challenges. The hosts engage in a thoughtful analysis of the consequences of power, revealing how the game’s themes resonate with today’s political climate. Wrapped up in a fun and engaging podcast style, this episode not only brings back fond memories of gaming but also provokes critical thought about our own political realities, making it a must-listen for fans of the franchise and political enthusiasts alike.

Takeaways:

• Joshua and Nick dive deep into the political themes of the Jak and Daxter series, comparing Baron Praxis to real-world politicians and discussing how video game narratives reflect societal issues.
• The conversation highlights how the shift from Jak and Daxter's light-hearted platforming to Jak II's darker, politically charged narrative mirrors the evolution of gaming culture and audience expectations.
• Nick shares his nostalgia for the Jak and Daxter franchise, reminiscing about how he first played the games as a kid and how they shaped his love for storytelling in video games.
• The duo discusses the character development of Jak, who transitions from a carefree hero to a complex figure entangled in a political struggle, showcasing the maturation of video game narratives.
• Joshua and Nick use humor to draw parallels between fictional characters and real-life political figures, suggesting that Baron Praxis embodies traits reminiscent of contemporary leaders, creating a witty commentary on power dynamics.
• In their exploration of the franchise, they emphasize the importance of storytelling in video games and how it can reflect and critique real-world politics, making the discussion both entertaining and thought-provoking.

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How might American politics today mimic the political events of Haven City from the Jak and Daxter series?

If you've ever wondered that, you're either me or crazy. I don't know. But that's what we're gonna be talking about today.

We're gonna be talking about the Jak and Daxter PS2 franchise, focusing on Baron Praxis, Cyber Erol. I might be saying that wrong. A few other characters that are rather political. Looking back on it as an adult going, what?

This is what we played as kids. I am really excited for this one.

I am Joshua Noel, and I am here with the one and only, one of our favorite guest former hosts of the show, the Tolkien head himself, Nick Polk. How's it going, man?

Dude, so good to nerd out with some OG nostalgic PS2 platformers that are like, my favorite. I'm so freaking stoked, dude.

Yeah, man. It's going to be a good time. If you don't know, this is like PS2 era of gaming. Some of the best.

Nick's recently mentioned that he started replaying and I tried to get this episode together and everybody's like, well, we've never played Jack and Daxter. I'm like, I bet my friend Nick has. And he has.

Because we're elite. We're elite.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what it is. Also, since you know. Yes. Gotta mention all the, like, the plugs. He's talking pop over on Substack.

He has Tolkien and Pop Culture Volume one book up on Amazon and probably other places if you don't want to get Amazon. Also, I always have to tell people, if you ask your public library to buy something, they usually will, then you can just rent it.

And then other people read his book. So it's like bonus, bonus for everybody. And it's the cheapest way to do it, so why not?

And you can support your local library, which is the best thing of all time.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, Nick, on our primarily political episodes like this, instead of talking about what we've been geeking out on lately, we start by identifying a bad actor in politics. And at the end of the episode, we'll identify a good actor in politics. So it could be someone real. Someone.

Someone from the Bible, someone fictional, whatever. Doesn't really matter. I'll go first. I'll let you think about it for a minute. If I'm thinking of bad actors in politics, it's just so easy.

I am like, you know what? Since we're doing PS2 games, I'm gonna go Dr. Nefarious from Ratchet and Clank. That's who I'm gonna shout out here.

He just straight up is organic suck. And he's got a point. If you listen to it, you're like, okay, that makes sense. But then he's like, I'm gonna make everything robots now.

You're like, maybe that's not the correct solution to the problem. You identify. But he is hilarious. So that's all I'm going with, Dr. Nefarious.

Nick, if you had to just shout out a bad actor in politics, who are you thinking?

Dude, I love that. Dr. Nefarious is a classic.

One of the bad actors I guess I've been thinking of is I just read the first book in the Red Rising series and so was not a huge fan at first, but then the payoff was really well, so I'm gonna continue. But the arch governor in that series, at least the first book, is, like, diabolical.

Yeah.

No spoilers. But so evil. So evil.

Solid pick. Solid pick, man. I'm more excited to hear that. See, I was gonna start with good actors. Cause you're starting on a positive note.

Then I'm like, oh, I don't want to end on a negative note. So that's why we do the positive ones at the end.

So you guys hang in there in the episode, and we'll identify a positive example of a political actor while you're here. Though, I want to mention we do have a T shirt specifically for our primarily political series.

It's a mech suit guy shaking hands with an ogre in front of the White House on the moon, because why not?

Part of why we do this series is to be a little silly to show that you don't have to take this stuff with that kind of seriousness where we all have to hate each other. We can have fun with it, talk about policies and not are you identify as this party or that party.

Talk about the stuff that matters and have fun and don't have to hate each other and be at each other's neck while we do it. So if you want to support that, get the T shirt, represent, and just keep loving our show. That's the main thing.

Yeah, get the shirt. Love the show.

Yeah. Also got to shout out our financial sponsors. Today I want to do a special shout out for James Barrett. James, you're amazing. Thank you so much, dude.

I want to remind listeners, too, that you can get your own shout out by becoming an official member of sitzmac Ecology on the website down in the show's description. That's the same place you're going to find the T shirt. You can find extra free content. Nick's been a part of some of that stuff.

You can leave a one time tip. There's all kinds of stuff you do on that website.

There's all kinds of other links too, including the playlist for all of our primarily political episodes. So actually read the show notes, click the links, check out stuff, continue your journey with us, Become part of the community.

We don't just do this to put on a show. We like being in community with you guys. So check it out. We appreciate it.

And with that, I think it's time for us to jump into the real, real fun here. Nick.

Nick, man, I told you that this to me felt like when you were like, you know, in middle school or something and you had to have a friend over to play a game and you like took Terrence playing and I was like, mom, can you please let Nick come over? I'm just so excited to do this with you. So could you. Let's start with just like, what is your history with the Jak and Daxter games?

Like, when's the first time you played? What's your, you know, you've been playing for like 300 years before it came out. For like two days.

Yeah, totally. 300 Years before it came out. You know, and then I jumped into a rift and, you know, came back and the loop kept going.

You created the game in our. The House of Mar itself.

And who, who named me? I guess it's unclear, but also not unclear. It's interesting. Anyway, fan theories are fun. The first game.

So I got the PS2, I think almost the same year it came out. My grandmother got it for me and one of the first games that she got because it had to be rated E because I was young.

I think I was right around second grade was Jak and Daxter. And I loved platformers. I love Banjo Kazooie.

You know, all of the N64 guys, you know, that's probably my, my all time favorite game is Banjo Kazooie and banjo Tooie and Jak and Daxter is in the top 10 for me. And so played that. And then later on I was not allowed to play Jak 2 or Jak 3 because it was, you know, too adult.

But as I got older, people started upgrading their game systems and so they gave me their hand me down JAK 2 and JAK 3 discs. And that's how I played it back in the day.

Heck yeah, dude. Yeah. I'm similar. Like I had Jak and Daxter. The original, when it came out, wasn't allowed to play Jak 2 or 3 because it was teen.

I think I played some at friend's house. I know, I remember seeing it.

The first time I've actually played through any Jak and Daxter games was actually PSP because you had like the little portable system. Like I had my headphones in and my parents didn't know what bad words and that's when they invented E10 and up.

So I think Daxter was actually E10 and up, so it wasn't teen. So I was allowed to play it.

Dude, that's such a better rating system than just straight E and T. Everyone.

Or teenager or mature. But yeah, no, I remember like because I played the Daxter game on PSP and it was so much fun.

It was nothing like Jak and Daxter or anything, but it was like I'm being an exterminator going around the city and like you have all these silly mini games and like references like Braveheart and Matrix and I'm like, this is parody gold. But then there was Jak and the Last Frontier, which happened after the third game and no one seems to remember.

It because it was trash.

Gosh, I loved it actually.

Did you really?

I had so much fun with that. I was like, because, you know, it's very platformy but without the Dark Power. So it's like all the light stuff.

And since I hadn't really played Jak 2 that much, I didn't care about the Dark power. Like this is cool. I have wings. Like I like this.

The platform is cool. I think the voice acting and like the story and the animation I think is, is a downgrade, but I'm not.

Animation and voices were definitely downgrades. Yeah, yeah.

But I'm not gonna yuck your yum. If you had fun, that's all that matters.

You know, I haven't played in a long time, so I'll play it again and tell you like, oh man, I misremembered that. But we'll see. Oh man. So yeah, that's kind of my history. I started there. I had one of my best friends in high school. They were his all time favorite.

They were his Kingdom Hearts. If you listen to the show, for all you know how I feel about Kingdom Hearts, that's how he felt about Jak and Daxter.

Well, now I gotta play Jak 2 and 3 and Jak 2 was like, this is gonna sound so dumb. I play Jak 2 a lot. It's one of the games I replay the most.

And it's because it's like Grand Theft Auto that I can play because I overthink things if you guys are unaware. And I'm like, I feel guilty playing Grand Theft Auto because I'm like, I don't know this guy. Why? Like, I stole his car and beat him up.

And I'm like, what if that was a good person? Like, is this okay? Is it okay for me to pretend to do this?

Did I just. Old lady?

Yeah. But then in Jak 2, it's like, it's kind of like Grand Theft Auto rules. But like, when I beat up the police, it's like, we're under police state.

These are clearly the bad guys. They're oppressing people. And I'm like, heck yeah, I can steal their cars and drive around and shoot the police. And it's a good thing.

No moral quandary. That's what I needed.

The. The political divide. But I guess there really.

I don't know if there really is one in the first one, but it's like, first one fun adventure, there's vil. All this stuff. And then it's like political uprising and shadow government. And you're like, God damn.

Conspiracies, Spies. Yeah. Like, it matures. So quick torture. Oh, man. Yeah. So let's start on that then. So like, why was.

For those who don't know, why was the original game so considered so wildly different from the other games in the JAK and Daxter series? And like, what makes that jump so significant?

Because I feel like it was not just significant to people playing the game, but like gaming community at large. I feel like it reflects a lot, actually.

Yeah. You know, it could be just the jump in the couple years of. In like the. I guess I want to say just like pop culture and the tone.

Right.

And so I think a couple years later, the culture started shifting and what it would tolerate as far as content. And I think also the taste changed. Right.

Grand Theft Auto was very popular, so JAK2 kind of grew with the tolerance as well as the taste change for more mature games.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I mean, so it's.

It's wild and we're talking about like what the games are for those who don't know, but like just kind of doing a little bit behind the scenes, like gamer world stuff.

It's like you very much get to this when the first one came out where, like, the typical game was, like, the original Jacket Ratchet, and Clank was similar. Like, it's platformer, it's Banjo Kajouy. It's jumping from platform to platform, seeing if you can hit the button fast enough. You know, whatever.

By the time check 2 comes around, games really started changing. We're like, you have more open world. You have more, like, shooting games are, like, the popular thing now, not platformers.

So I think part of it was adapting to shooting games being the popular thing, and how do we keep doing this thing without losing an audience? Right. And then part of it, too, was like, I feel like a lot of companies were showing, no, you can tell real stories in games.

It's not just like, we're having fun and, oh, look, the monkey took the princess, and then the plumber beat him. You know, like, it's not like, just, like, silly fun going back and forth stuff. It's like, no, you can go, like, in depth.

Complex storytelling and Final Fantasy is probably a big part of why people realize, oh, we can actually do this. And Naughty Dog, if you pay attention, after the Jak and Dexter series, they keep doing that. Like, they're the ones who do the Last of Us. They do.

A lot of these games that are known for complex stories come from Naughty Dog, who did Crash Bandicoot, and then Jak and Daxter, these little fun, silly platformers that I love. I don't mean silly in a negative way. Just they were silly.

Oh, yeah.

And Jak and Daxter really shows the company's progression too, I think.

Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. And I guess people.

I feel like people who will listen to this will be familiar with the Jack series, but, you know, Jack and Dakter series. But like you said, JAK2 is really, you know, there's guns, they're shooting, there's. It's not really language. They say like, crap now.

Well, they say crap in Jak and.

Daxter, but I think they say, like, what the hell? Which I remember as a kid, that was a huge deal.

Like, if my parents heard a game say that, I knew they were gonna take it away no matter what part of the game I was in.

So I was like, yeah, it's a GTA clone. It's not a clone, but it's a gta. You know, it's got a GTA framework.

I mean, definitely feel the inspiration there. Yeah.

100.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So for those who don't know Jack and Daxter, it, like, it starts off and it's just like two best friends.

One of them end up in this portal and comes back and. Odd, I forget, what's he called? Ocelet.

Oh, he's an Otzel. He's a mixture between an otter in a weasel.

Yeah. And it's like, okay, well, we got to do this stuff to go back through the portal and turn my best friend back to human.

And like, it's like, okay, we're going to do these, like, little platform missions. We're collecting the precursors and we're going to do this. Ta da. First game ends with you going through the portal.

Second game starts, you went through the portal, you were captured, and now you were tortured for years. Imbues with darkness itself. There's a political uprising, and the entire city is under police watch.

And you're like, what kind of world did we just step into?

Like, truly, like, they took the portal to a different world to, like, the max most or halfway to most of the way through the second game, you realize it's the same world, but way in the future.

Spoilers.

Pretty big plot twist. Sorry, spoiler, guys. But, yeah, long story short, Jack ends up having to send a version of himself back to create Heaven City and all this stuff.

And then in the third game, you kind of. You meet different political characters, you see more of what's going on.

But, like, second game is, like, where the political stuff really starts happening. So Baron Praxis is this leader. He put the city on police watch. He's keeping everybody strictly on really minimalizing what people are allowed to do.

Very dictatorish. Yeah. And then the third game, they free the dictator. There's still consequences.

People blame Jack for a lot of bad stuff that happened because, you know, it's not like you beat Hitler now. Everything's good. There's still fallout, there's still consequences. There's financial consequences. There's. Okay, well, you took the safety away.

And now some people have this version of the city that they want to see. And this. Other versions, politics are never clean. They're not simple and clean. Sorry.

The enemies are fighting, like you said, the protection's gone and the enemies are taking over the city.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot of complex stuff, so you get a lot of political stuff. He gets banned from the city.

In the third game, he meets another city that they didn't know. Realized he meets a ruler who used to be the ruler of Haven City.

Finds out more of the background, finds out more about himself because, again, there's a time loop involved here. It's It's a whole crazy, wild, fun mess. The second one is Grand Theft Auto. Third one is aren't vehicles fun?

What if you were just like, off roading and shot stuff?

It's straight up Mad Max, dude. Yeah, Mad Max was a cleaver. Is straight wannabe Australian Mad Max.

It's so funny. Yeah, it's Mad Max as a platformer.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah. The second one is Grand Theft Auto as a platform. So it's a lot of fun, but. So, Nick, if you were to rank the three games, how would you.

What order would you put them?

Man, you know, it's probably nostalgia talking, but I just love straight platformers and I think that the storytelling is fun, but I think it was. I think it tries too hard to be, like, so epic and cool and to a certain degree it accomplishes it.

But I just love the straightforward story of Jak and Daxter. The first one. I think I like the story in Jak 3 better than Jak 2, but I like the combat and missions and platforming in Jack 2 better.

Or.

Yeah, story in Jack 3 better. Actual gameplay, Jack 2 better. So I'm going to go Jak and Daxter for number one. Jack two, I guess just the classic order, one, two and three. Yep.

Man, I feel like I'm letting you down now. And yeah, it is. It is weird. Like, I'm going to be opposite of you in a weird way. I like the gameplay in 3 better. I love the vehicles and all that.

Like, I had so much fun and then having more weapon choices because, like, I'm ADHD. And it's like in Jack 3, it feels like every single mission you're getting a new power or weapon or something.

And I'm like, this is like just ADHD fuel, man.

No, it's true armor, you know, mods. That's true. That's true.

I love it. I love it. So I think it's probably. My favorite gameplay would probably be three story. My favorite story might be three two setting, though.

My favorite setting is Jack 1 and then Jack 2. Like, my least favorite setting is in Jack 3. Like, I have, like, I love the Haven City. It's so much fun to explore.

And then the first game where everything's bright and happy is, like, great. And then like, I don't know what it is. Mad Max is just a bummer.

Like, like, the gameplay is fun, but I'm like, this setting, just kind of a downer, man. Like, like, somehow that's more of a downer than the police state because at Least the police state can just beat the bad guys up.

When I felt like it vent, you know, it's.

It's tough to fill empty desert space too. Like, all the missions that you get to are really well done.

But, like, a lot of times in the driving missions, I was like, there's nothing here, dude.

Yeah, it makes it rough. So I think. And I know, like, this is gonna sound weird. Like, I feel like I really built three up to say that. You know what? You know what?

I'm bite the bullet. Because I do love the gameplay so much. I'm gonna have three is one, one is two, and two will be my least favorite. But, like, they're all so close.

I just love different aspects of them for different reasons. So, like, if we're like, you know, like, if we were ranking gameplay, three is my number one.

If we're ranking settings, one is probably my number one, you know, and it's like two has ever a little bit of everything. So I agree.

All.

Maybe two is the best one because I'm like, it's like my second favorite on all the categories. It's not my favorite in any category, though.

Yeah. You know, all three are great games in my opinion.

They're awesome. Yeah. You know what? Daxter is my favorite. I'm not even joking. The Daxter PSV game is my favorite because it's the funniest one.

And I put comedy above all else.

I want to play that. I'm going to find it online for free somewhere and play it so much.

All right, so movie pax. You'll give them a little bit of context of, like, what the games are, but could you maybe help them out a little bit more? Who is Baron Praxis?

Like, what's his motivations? What is the political agenda going on here? Jack 2 is when he's introduced. Yeah.

So Baron Praxis, you know, he's the leader of Haven City. And at first you don't really know this. You know that he's a bad guy because Jack and Daxter, Samos and Kira go through the portal.

He kidnaps Jack and starts torturing him for, like, a secret dark warrior program where he injects them with dark eco. And part of it is that there's metal heads that are attacking the city, which are like this ancient race that also are evil. Surprise, surprise.

And so they're attacking the city, and Baron Praxis is using brute force to what seems to be protecting the city. And what you find out later is that Baron Praxis actually has been Paying the metal heads under the table to just have them attack.

Just enough to make people feel scared and protected by Baron so he can hold on to power.

Yeah, that blew my mind when that was first revealed. I was like, what? There's so many tries to destroy the metal heads like he's being making.

Then at the end he's like, I'm gonna slip a bomb into this last transaction. Like, well, the metal heads are definitely bad, but like, this still seems bad too.

Right? And also it's weird that you had. You're like, okay, I'm gonna use this to manipulate people, but also I'm going to eliminate you once and for all.

I think he just gets. He's one of those villains. Like, it's not inconsistent. He's just so power hungry that I think he just doesn't.

He can't juggle all of the things he wants. Right?

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna be really transparent. Probably upset some people. But listen, guys, I'm okay with us having differing opinions. I love everybody.

Part of why I want to do this episode and why it was primarily political is like, I'm playing, replaying Jack 2 and going, Holy crap, Baron Praxis is Donald Trump.

Oh, 100%.

Like, it's, it's just this whole, like, they're the enemies.

I'm going to set things up so everybody hates them and I'm going to set things up and like, look, I protected you from the danger that I put you in, and now I'm going to eliminate these other beings because I demonize them and make them seem like a threat. I think caused them to be of. You're like, dude, chill. And the police state stuff, I'm like,.

It's his own secret police. They got their own name and everything, right? The Crimson. What are they called? The Crimson Guard.

Yeah. And it's so crazy, like playing it now in today's world. I don't think, like, I don't know, maybe if you're a super MAGA fan, you won't see it.

But I like feel like for the most part you're playing this and it's like, why do I feel like I'm just fighting ice? Like what?

You know, the Red Hat, Crimson Guard. Coincidence.

I don't know, man. Maybe Donald Trump played Jack too and was like, I know who the real hero of this game was.

I'm just, you know, if Donald Trump spent. I feel like I would not be surprised if Donald Trump spent another third of his time playing video games.

I wouldn't be surprised yeah, that's what he did the first term. He was actually playing Jak ii, coming up with ideas for next time.

He's a real gamer. He's a. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So part of this. So, like, you get almost like Star wars vibes, right?

Because, like, you have the Empire, you have Baron Prax and the Crimson Guard, which stormtrooper parallels, I feel like. You know, but then you have the rebels, and in this world, it's there, the underground, and you have some of the different leaders there.

So do you want to maybe unpack a little bit? Who are the underground? Who are the Underground? And who are some characters maybe we care about, Man?

Underground is also very complex. So you. At first, you meet Core, who's this old man who also has a child who is unidentified at this point. And there's Torn, I think.

Right?

Torn is his name. Right. And he's also. He used to be a part of the Crimson Guard. So Torn, Core, protecting this little kid for unknown reasons.

And they're like, hey, we're resisting Baron. And we also have somebody who's running things behind the scenes called the Shadow. Right?

Yeah, the Shadow, which that reveal was great, too. Yeah, I have time for every reveal, but that one's great. You guys look up on that one on YouTube. Maybe Samos in the Shadow, and. Oh, it's fun.

Yeah, that's the thing, I think. Yeah, I think it's just a. It's a stereotypical sort of rebellion, like, Star wars rebellion type revolution group.

It's also where you meet Ashlyn Practice, who's one of the best characters in this thing, because it's, like, definitely the love interest. Definitely a little bit overly sexualized. Daxter kind of has some issues in this games that didn't age well.

But, like, also the G strings poking out of the outfits is.

So it's like you have the Luke, I am your father, but backwards reveal, where it's like, oh, I am the daughter. And you're like, wait a minute, what?

And at the end of Jack 2, she actually becomes the leader of Haven City after they defeat Baron Praxan, which is cool because she's one of the good guys and also your love interest. But also, somehow you still get banned from the city, so apparently didn't do you much good.

Yeah. And, you know, she realized her dad was a tyrant, but also, like you said, she can't do anything to stop Jack from getting banned. It's weird.

Yeah, it's strange. Speaking of Jack being banned, we also have another character who's in Jak 2 and 3 count Vegar.

It's Vegar. No, that's what he says in this actual game.

I did it on accident. But, like, anyway, he is the worst. Like, just rich, snooty, whatever. He's actually, like.

So he's one of, like, the Aristocrat Party, like, the people with money who actually control the politics. So that's what he really is.

So he's able to kind of help manipulate things because whenever the deal goes bad, there's a big explosion, the city gets hurt. All of a sudden, the Metalhead's coming in.

So even though Jack saved the day because Jack has these dark powers that were given to him because of Baron Braxis, actually, people see the dark powers and how he looks kind of bad, and they're like, hey, let's blame that guy. And of course, he kind of leads the charge. And that's how he gets banned for the third game into Mad Max. But Platformer. Yeah.

Anything else to add about Vega?

Yeah, I mean, Count Veger, too. He also wants power. We find out that he's not like Baron Praxis level evil, I guess, but he wants to be the one who saves the day.

And also, he thinks that Jack legitimately is evil. Like, he's using him for political gain to make him a scapegoat. But also he's like, you have dark ego. Ego.

So you're evil, and I want you to be eliminated. And surprise, surprise, the Count Vigor is not successful and actually turns into an Otzel.

So, yeah, also, he's one of the lamest. Like, I like. I like when you have bad guys sometimes that just turn out to be losers, like Captain Quark.

Going back to my Ratchet and Clink days, I'm like, you know, it's just fun when one of the bad guys turns out to just be a loser. Yes, it's great. Speaking of Donald Trump. Oh, sorry. I mean, sorry, guys. That was. That was bad.

But, like, one of the cool things about Jack 3 too, is, like, yes, we took over the dictator. Like, but, like, it's actually dealing with ramifications.

So I like when stories don't just end with we beat the bad guy and then show some of their implications. And one of them has to do with the character Cyber Erol. I don't think I'm pronouncing that one right either, but There we are.

Nick, you want to talk about, like, his story, like, what happened in Jak 2 that led to him being the villain of Jak 3?

Yeah, Errol, I mean, there's so many. This, this, the story is really complex. Jak 2, there's multiple villains, you know, lots of twists and turns, surprise villains as well.

But Errol is Baron Praxis, right hand man essentially, and head of the Crimson Guard. And he has, you know, he's got issues with Jack immediately for pretty much the same reasons.

And at the part towards the end of Jak 2, Jak has to go, do Jak and Daxter have to do this race to get closer to Baron Praxis for some reason? And Errol and him race and of course you win because you're the protagonist. And Errol gets pissed. He drives his. He tries to run you over.

He accidentally runs into a barrel of a pile of ego, explodes, and you're like, oh, he's dead, that's cool. And then he's revealed to have survived in Jack 3.

And he has been working with the Dark Makers, I think, to which are another secret, ancient, you know, corrupted group of people.

A lot of magic, a lot of weird, like, cult factions and conspiracies and political mess.

Yeah, yeah, it feels, they feel like the flood mixed with Cthulhu mixed with, I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. Like old school Klingons before they're part of the Federation.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's like part. I think you can put all those three together. There you go, you've got the Dark Makers.

So Errol comes back and he wants to kill everything and blow up the world. And he's like, absolutely insane. So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he's mad. Like he, he attached everything he had to this. Not Donald Trump. Baron Praxis, who, who, when he's defeated, it's like, well, now what?

And nobody wants anything to do with him. And people discarded him. He was dead. And then the leader's dead, so they're like, yeah, we don't care about this guy. And like, they neglected that.

Right. They kind of did a, we meet the bad guy, we'll set up the new power. And didn't address his old followers.

So then of course, the chief follower who's now being cast aside, seeing everything stripped away from him feels hopeless because, like, what's he gonna do? Come like, oh, no, I didn't really like him. No one's gonna buy that. So what's he do? He turns anger, it just builds up in him. Until he just.

Everything he does is just for vengeance. He's just blinded by it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Happy stuff. Well, the shift.

We do shift in tone, baby.

Yeah, man. We do have some. Some happier characters to talk about, though.

The last one I want to mention, like, for politically, and there's just so many characters, so much stuff going on in the Jack and Daxter, we can't cover all of it. But if we're going to talk about politics and Jak and Daxter, we can't talk about Damis or Damas.

Why do I think you said it right?

Why don't I know how to say things? But yeah. So you're out like Spartacus. You're out at, like, Mad Max World in the desert. This guy and his people find you. Tell me something about him.

Yeah. So, Damis. Damas. Damas. Damon, now I have you questioning. I don't know. Who is he? Who is this guy? He is the leader of this society in the desert.

And so this society is made up of people who have been exiled from Haven City. And so very Mad Max. Ashlyn gives Jack a beacon after he's exiled so that Damis can come find him. And he does.

And Damis basically says, hey, if you want to. If you want me to protect you and keep you alive, you need to do my missions. You got to do all this stuff and prove yourself.

And over time, we find out that Damis is. He comes across kind of roughed, anarchist, sort of might makes right sort of character.

But you find out later that he does want to do the right thing, and he does want to resist evil. And surprise, surprise, you find out that he has a lost son. And the lost son was the young Jack from Jack 2.

And, you know, as he says this to Jack, he's dying, and Jack is literally holding his long lost father in his arms while he's dying. And Damon says, I'm looking for my son, and blah, blah, blah. And he gives him the. The talisman that shows that.

And he's the descendant of Mar, which Mar is like the dude, the legendary warrior from the past who makes Precursor technology and good things possible. And of course, that's why Jack is so prone to being amazing and winning.

Yeah. And like, the big fan theory is that Jack is Mar. Like, his son was actually Mar. And when he goes back in time, he's the one. But fan theories.

That's just fan theories. I think the crazy thing too, though, is, like, when Damos is dying, he's like, find my. He asked Jack to find his son.

Like, he still doesn't know that Jack is his son. So it's like.

Right.

That still kills me. Like, I wish, like, we could, like, do a little bit of extra time travel just to let him know, you know, just like, oh, by the way. Yeah.

Get the rift going. Just, you know, just a little. Just a little portal. Right before he's. By the way, I'm your son.

Exactly, yeah. Which I love him. You also find out he was the leader of Haven City before Baron Praxis took over.

Oh, right. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. Baron Praxis had to come up with a threat to prove that Damon wasn't strong enough to do him.

Which is why, in this Mad Max world, Damis is all, like, strength. We're going to leave from strength. Because when he led Haven City, they undermined him because, oh, he's not strong in the face of these metalheads.

He's not strong on immigration. I mean, strong on metalheads. That's kind of like the whole thing.

Which is why Baron Praxis was able to come in, take over, and then Institute Ice Red. The Red Crimson Guards, whatever they're called. Oh, man. Yeah. The parallels are just so. I don't know. To me, it's almost on the nose.

But it's weird because this came first, so it's, like, obviously wasn't intentional, but. Dang, does it feel on the nose?

Man, it feels a little prophetic, doesn't it?

Like, it's just. It's a little strange. That's why I was replaying, like, someone has to talk to me about this because, like, this is.

This is actually kind of weird how.

Similar some of this is 20 years ago. That's wild. That's wild.

Yeah. Yeah. Wild. Naughty Dog actually knows the future. They're working with South Park.

That's now and the Simpsons.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. South park, the Simpsons. Jack and Daxter. They've been working together, predict the future this whole time.

But so we mentioned a lot of characters, and a lot of them are like, it's about power, revenge, whatever. This political need for power. What's weird to me in the game, but I think actually we see this a little bit in real life.

It's like, it doesn't seem like there's an agenda past that. Like, it's like, I want power. It's like, okay, so then what? I have the power. Okay, so what are you gonna do with that? Yeah, you know, like, I think.

I don't know. Like, I always feel like, even in real life, I feel like, sometimes I'm drawing a blank. Like, okay, you have power. Okay, J.D. Vance.

What did you want with that? Are you just. You just wanted to say you have power? Was that it? I'm confused. No.

I even think about, you know, the first villain in One Punch Man. Right? One Punch Man. Right. He is a good guy, but he has reached the level and can't go any higher. And he's like, what's the purpose of life?

And then, you know, the villain at the end is like, I will travel the universe and destroy everyone until I find someone. And that's it. You just. You just keep searching for that high, and eventually it's. There is gonna be a ceiling, right?

Yeah, Well, I think, like. And the problem is, like, we can't trace back enough to, like, know for sure.

But some part of me feels like it starts with that, because I'm sorry, but, like, that, like, pragmatic, annoying. The ends justify the mean stuff that I always complain about.

Like, I feel like it always starts there, but, like, it gets so lost that it's unrecognizable, recognizable, you know? Like, I feel like maybe not the Jak and Daxter series, but who knows?

Maybe Baron Praxis at some point literally was like, guys, this metalhead thing really is a problem. And it keeps justifying actions until you're just completely lost. And all you want now is the power.

And you forgot why you wanted the power in the first place, Right?

It's the meme of, we're doing this for the children. Right? We're doing this for the children. And then it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Yeah. And then it's like, you're killing the children. Well, I can kill one children because I'm gonna save all of them.

And eventually you're like, I don't even remember why I'm doing this. Yeah.

And I think that, like, that just happens on, like, a large scale with any political faction or anything, where it's like, why did we start this in the first place? I don't know. Like, we wanted power so that we could. It was originally to help somebody or save something or.

And that's where I'm like, this whole ends justify the means power so that we can create good mentality. It's just so dangerous because everyone always loses themselves. Like, that's just what happens. We've seen it so many times, and it's like, it almost.

To me, it feels like what I hear, politicians and, like, church leaders and people do this in our world today. Like, I feel like I'm listening to like a high schooler on tv. Go. No, our relationship's different. Our love's different. And I'm like, it's not, dude.

It's not. I promise. You know, like, no, I want power for good. It's different. It's not.

That's such a great analogy. That's perfect. No, that's perfect.

Perfect, because like you said, I feel like people who have already done it, which, you know, obviously we both have not served on a level of office to have that experience. But like I said, I've had teenagers, you know, I'm a teacher, who say that they're like, oh, it's going to be different.

And I don't give advice, but I'm like, listen, just take your time. Take your time. I was your age. That's all I'll say. Putting it out there in the universe for you to consider. You won't.

But, you know, Yeah, I think, like, maybe this is me, but one of my favorite things working in restaurant business is like, sometimes I get to see the kids who are about to go to college and be like, we're gonna do long distance and I'm gonna come see them in the summer. And I'm like, mm, yeah, you definitely won't be broken up by December.

Yeah, I don't say that.

I'm just like, oh, that's great. I hope you guys will like. I do wish them best. I just. I'm like, been there, I've seen this. I know this story.

But, yeah, I don't know where that came from in my head, but I do feel like it's pretty one for one comparison. It's like the people I agreed. And I think that was, to me, one of the big moving things of the. What was that podcast? The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill.

That was a big thing to me, was listening to it. I'm like, I actually do follow where he's like, oh, no, no, this is for good. It's because I love people. It's because this. And I'm like, oh, yeah.

And then they're like, yeah, it just became something so totally wicked and unrecognizable.

And that's what happens when you do stuff for power, because we want our side to win, because it's gonna protect the children or it's gonna, you know, save lives or it's gonna, you know, whatever. And it's like, well, when you justify stuff enough, eventually you become like this guy. Yeah, you're just like, oh, power, revenge.

And completely forgot why you're doing it in the first place. Yeah.

And they're cyborgs. Right. Like, we were thinking of, like, AI and all the issues there, you know, Also prophetic. Just saying.

Jack and Dexter. Simpsons South Park. We see you real quick before wrapping this up, though. You know, our annual theme this year.

Well, I think, you know, is the faces behind us on Cismakie College. We've been doing, like, a bunch of things, like seeing the faces behind faces.

And I think we've seen that there's a lot of characters we already touched on. But I just want to comment on it for a minute because, like, we talked about Baron Praxis and his daughter Ashla.

In Praxis, somehow he raised this girl who ends up being, like, the leader of rebellion and saves Baron City. You see, Damis kind of accidentally raised his son and saved his son's life without even knowing it. You know, Cyber Errol.

You see how faced the bay and him, like, people not paying attention to the fallout. And he lost his whole world. And, like, I don't know. There's just so much entanglement for Will out there. It's crazy.

And, like, I feel like part of that's just very realistic. But how do you think, like, as far as, like, it ties into the theme? I've been talking about faces behind us all year.

So, like, I feel like I get lost in it. But do you see some of this connection or, like, where do you think this is important for us to pay attention to?

Yeah, I think one of the most difficult things, and people debate, and I don't know if there's really a right answer, but people are always asking, like, what is the nature of power and who should have it, and if someone does have it, what should they do with it?

And I think Ashlyn is a good example of someone who has access to power and uses it in the context of this world for legitimately the betterment of, you know, the people in the world. And of course, there's no more games to see if she ends up forgetting, you know, her purpose.

But at least in this game, she's using her power for good. Yeah.

Yeah. Which, I mean, really, it gets to what Christian nationalism actually means. It's just a heresy, and it's just bad.

But, like, when we're, like, colloquial, what a lot of people think they mean is, like, they just want Christians to have power. That could still come. A lot of my tension with that, where I'm like, I see the heart of.

You think if people in power happen to be Christians, that it would be a better world. And I'm like, you know, I kind of actually agree with that.

Like, if they were Christians and, like, following what Jesus said and caring for the poor and hungry and all that, I'm like, yeah, that would be a better world. I think the problem I have is who is like Jesus that is pursuing power. That doesn't actually work because Jesus didn't pursue power.

But, like, if you had someone who, like, let's say Donald Trump miraculously gets saved right now, and it's all of a sudden, like, actually, I want to feed the hungry and clothe the naked and all that, like, that would be a good thing.

So, like, it's easier for me to see, like, someone like Ashlyn, who is, like, born into this, inherits the city, who happens to be a good person, being a good ruler.

It's really hard for me to imagine someone who is already a good person or a Christian than going, I'm gonna get the power, and that's gonna make everything better. Because, I don't know, I don't see good people or Christians wanting power because it's like, that's not.

You're not worshiping God at that point, you know? Yeah.

And that's part of what makes Jack a hero. Right. He doesn't go for power. And these are, like, good here.

I think that's a great thing about some of these games is that you're just a hero who's just kind of there to help.

Yeah. Which once they realize the whole Mar connection, Jack has a claim to the throne to be ruler and all this, and he kind of denies.

It's like, actually, I kind of just want to keep being a hero and doing hero y stuff. Yeah. Which is why they need to make more games. Agreed. Looking at you, naughty dog.

Listen, if ratty clique is still going on, there are no reason Jak and Daxter can't be.

No. Or at least, you know, bring us. You know, they did the Spyro reignited revamps. Yeah. Bring us a. Bring us. Yeah. Agreed. Do it.

Do it. Yeah. All right, man. Well, with that, are you. Are you going to start wrapping this one up?

Party. Let's party.

All right, well, then we mentioned at the beginning that we were gonna say a positive political act. So we started with the example of a bad political order. We're gonna end example of a good political actor. I'm gonna stay on Brand.

I mentioned Ratchet and clank. I did Dr. Nefarious for my bad political actor. I'm gonna Shock, everyone. Captain Quark is gonna be my positive political actor.

He was a terrible politician. He was garbage at what he did, but he was trying to do good. Like, he was actively like, I'll be the best ruler. Like, he's arrogant, douchebag.

But he actually did want to help people. He just wanted it to be about himself, which is why he wasn't super successful. But I think he acted in good faith. So I'm gonna name.

Which is funny because this is the second time I've done this in a row where I've named someone who was actually bad, but they were acting in good faith. So I'm like, that's a good political actor. Even though they were bad.

Yeah. Good faith, you know?

Yeah. So I'm gonna go, Captain Cork. That's gonna be my. My shout out also, cuz he's hilarious.

And sometimes, like, if you have a leader who's not like, causing a lot of harm and he's just funny, I'm gonna offend some people. Listen, George W. He had his faults, but man, that guy was funny.

Dude, that dude was hilarious.

Yeah, that was a funny guy.

We need to tell all the terrorists to stop. Now watch this. Now watch this drive. I mean, you can't tell me that's not hilarious.

Just cracked me up. It also. Well, so that's my second one. George W. Was a good political actor. All the bad he did. Listen, he has a book. This is.

We're not doing recommendations, but if I was, he actually has a book where he hand drew all these paintings of different immigrants and told it, telling their story. Because he's like, we need to know these people as humans. And I'm like, listen, guys, I disagree with, like, pretty much all of his policies.

Can't tell he wasn't a good political actor. Like, he was trying to do good. Can't say that about a lot of current administration. Okay, anyway, Nick, go ahead, go ahead.

Who's a positive political actor?

No, and I'm seconding all of your thoughts there on W. I think that I'm thinking of Mon Mothma. That's my good political actor.

I don't know all this stuff behind all the lore or whatever, but everything from the moo, the new movies, the, you know, andor like, Come on. Mon Mothba rules. Dude.

Dude. Yeah. Good stuff. Super good stuff, actually. Excellent stuff. Speaking of excellent stuff, check out our primarily political merch.

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