To celebrate passing the 200th episode of Bring Your Product Idea To Life, I decided to catch  up with past guests, to see what happened next in their product business, and where they are now.

Today’s guests were all on my podcast in 2021. It’s fascinating hearing where their business has taken them, the highs and lows, and how their advice for other product business owners has changed over the years.

One of the main messages that came out of it was the importance of perseverance, how businesses naturally evolve, building your range and being willing to pivot when needed.

The Bring Your Product Idea to Life Podcast  - Best Business Podcast Award, Independent Podcast Awards 2023

USEFUL RESOURCES:

2021 Podcast Episode 47 - Ruth Bussey - Ink and Scribbles

Ink and Scribbles Website

Ink and Scribbles Instagram

2021 Podcast Episode 57 - Joe Shortt - Trip Clip

TripClip Website

TripClip Instagram

2021 Podcast Episode 59 - Vanessa Afful - MBPH Aromatherapy

Made By Pure Hands Website

MBPH Aromatherapy Instagram

2021 Podcast Episode 71 - Nancy Powell - Herd Bags

Herd Bags Website

Herd Bags Instagram

2021 Podcast Episode 73 - Silvina De Vita - My Papercut Forest

My Papercut Forest Website

My Parpercut Forest Instagram

2021 Podcast Episode 84 - Creating and selling planners - with Janet Murray

Janet Murray Website

Janet Murray Instagram

2021 Podcast Episode 88 - Why your product needs to be on Amazon - with Cara Sayer, Snooze Shade

SnoozeShade Website

SnoozeShade Instagram

2021 Podcast Episode 89 - How to make wholesale work - with Sasha Gupta, Cheeky Zebra

Cheeky Zebra Website

Cheeky Zebra Instagram

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Book a selling on Amazon Power Hour

Hi. Welcome to this week's episode. So a few weeks ago,

you might remember that I released an episode where I caught up with four of

my earliest podcast guests. So these were guests who joined me when the

podcast first started back in 2020. So four years ago

now. And we just celebrated the podcast's four year

anniversary. In case you missed it, this was episode

206, so if you didn't listen, you can go back and find it.

And I had some really great feedback on this episode. It went down so well,

in fact, that I decided that I would reconnect with some guests from

2021 for you as well. I was really excited to

speak with all of eight of these guests. Yes, eight. So not four this time.

I actually was able to find time to record with

even more guests from 2021. It was great to speak to them

to find out what they're up to today, and importantly, whether their number

one piece of advice for other product creators, which is the question I ask every

single guest at the end of every single episode, has changed three years

on. So the first guest we're catching up with today is Ruth

Bussy. From Ink and Scribbles, Ruth creates emotional intelligence,

workbooks, journals, and printable resources for children. Ruth was

our first guest who sold both physical and digital products,

and I'm really excited for you to hear Ruth's updates and her number one

piece of advice for you three years on. Hi, Ruth.

Thank you so much for joining me again. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's

so nice to get to catch up. So I would love to know what has

changed with your business since we last spoke back in 2021.

I would say that it's gone much more

digital than it was in 2021. So in

2021, I did have digital items, but

was more focused, sort of on the physical books that I was

creating. So I think obviously because of COVID and

everything kind of being more difficult during that time, it kind of

pushed me down that path. But what I also find for me

and what I do and what I create and what knowledge I share,

digital is a much easier and faster way to

get that out to people. So I've got hundreds of

items that are now available to people, which is much harder to sort

of package up in a physical item. So digital is

definitely gone more down that road. I've also done

more training, so I have diversified into service

offerings as well. And I think it's

just changed with me as I've grown myself, my own personal

development, and also my kids needs because they've obviously changed over the years

and they have. So it's sort of, you know, the business

started up with my daughter and her needs and her anxiety, and

she's in a much more different place. She's a teenager now, so she's got different

kind of issues and we've come a long way for her. But

I've also got my son now, who obviously presents different challenges that he

needs support with. So they've sort of guided

the way that the business has kind of developed as well. So, yeah, I'd say

those three things are definitely the way that it's changed. Well, thank you for

sharing all of that. And to be honest, I'm not surprised when you say that

it's gone more digital. You were actually the first guest I had on who was

selling a mix of digital and physical products. And I remember we

spoke in our first interview about sort of the logistics of getting them

print and bound and sent out to people, which I

guess maybe looking back, does that seem like hard

work when you think, how are you doing? Yeah, I started off doing it myself,

which was just really time consuming. It's just very limiting.

So then went off to find printers and

that was much quicker. But then I'm a bit of a perfectionist,

so they come out and then I'm looking through, and they're not all perfect.

Some of them got dense. There's issues with a page is in

the wrong place, all of those sorts of logistical things,

which. Yeah, I just don't. I just don't deal well

with that on a personal sort of stress level. I'm just. I just like it

to be straightforward and easy. So, yeah, so the digital.

And, like, I can just churn out loads. I can just. I've just got. So

I've still got loads and loads of ideas of things to create for people. So

a digital makes it much easier for me to put that out there.

And as you say, it also makes it so much easier for customers because often

if you're looking for a solution, you don't want to wait, you know, three, four

days for it to come in the. I know that's not a long time, but

do you know what I mean? In the world where we live in now, people

just want things quickly and that's what's really nice. And it's more

sustainable, of course, because you're not having to print that stuff

as well. You know, there's much less waste. People can print it, you know, as

many times as they want because some of the. Well, a lot of the things

I produce actually are very reusable. And obviously, when

children have, um, you know, an emotional challenge that

they're going through, they don't. It's just not a one off, is it? You know,

you need to keep going and going and going and teaching them the

same lesson over and over so it can be used over and over again.

So, yeah, I don't find that the digital nature limits me at

all. I. I think, um, you know, not, not everybody has

printers, but it's really easy to get things printed anywhere. You can

take it to the local library. People have, obviously, their work

offices, or you can just get it, you know, uploaded and printed and

sent to you from an online printer as well. So I don't think that holds

it back. No, definitely not. And also, it means you can print out, you know,

what you want. Because I think that's the other thing, isn't it? I sometimes get.

I sometimes get these downloads and I only want to print one or two pages,

if you see what I mean. Because some of it, you think, I could just

read that on screen, but actually this bit I need the printed version of. So

I think that's really nice as well. And as you say, there's that flexibility around

how many copies you need and. Yeah, I think that's all really. Yeah, I think

the world's going that way. Yeah, definitely. Oh, thank you for

giving us the update. The second question I have for you, Ruth, is I would

love to know, what is your number one piece of advice for other product

creators? Do you know what? I just think it's just got to be

perseverance. It just. It just

takes time. You know, you've got to be prepared to

take different pathways. You know, you've set yourself

out and you just think you're going to go down this one path and then

obviously obstacles appear and you have to pivot and

change and also your ideas develop and you start. Well,

what I have found personally is that you start off with something and you think

it's amazing. And then six months, a year down the line, you look at

it again and you don't look at it quite the same way. You know, that

it could do with an update, you know, it could do with.

Yeah, a bit of a refresh. So I just

think, just perseverance. I think when you

persevere over a long period of time, like I've been

going quite a few years now, you know, you

just, you look back and the journey is just so obvious then that

you start off with all this sort of

idea of what you want. It to be and then where you actually are

now and when you look back is entirely different from where you

thought you might be when you started out. Does that make sense? It does. And

as you say, I think that's actually really, really nice.

Yeah. Yeah. But it's not, it's not all kind of just on a

straight road, you know, it's, yeah, the path is winding.

And that you can see progress as well because that's something that I'm realizing

that as I'm doing sort of these interviews that everyone I speak to has been

a couple of years on and things have changed and it's all for the whole,

it's not always all positive. I know there's ups and downs, but you

can definitely see like a, a journey like you say. And I think that's

sometimes really good just to reflect because I think in our businesses it can be

really tempting to think, oh, I haven't made any progress or I'm not.

You know, you can feel stuck sometimes. So I think it's really good to look

back. Yeah. And legit. You know, it's real. It's really an up and

down journey, you know? You know, having your own business and

creating your own products and, you know, there are days where you just

think, oh, you know, this isn't going anywhere. So when

you look back at it over a longer period of time, you look back and

you think, oh, yeah, you know, I've come a long way. There's a lot of

changes that's been made. I'm not where I thought I would be, but

actually, you know, where I am right now is really good. So.

Yeah, pat on the back, that's a. Really nice, positive

night to end on. Thank you so much, Reeve. No problem.

I really hope that you enjoyed hearing Ruth's update. Next up

is Joe Shortt from Tripclip. Jo is the creator of Tripclip, which is a

unique travel retail product. In our initial interview,

Jo spoke about the process and challenges of designing, prototyping and

manufacturing a completely original product. And let's see what

advice he has for you now a few years on.

So. Hi, Jo. Thank you so much for speaking with me again. No

problem. Great to hear from you. Yeah, it's been a long time. So

I would love to know. So what's changed for you and

Tripclip since we last spoke? So

TripClip has had,

it's had its fair share of ups and its fair share of downs

and it's been really interesting getting

it to market. But I think products now

that I know what's involved. I think you can get a product to

market pretty easily.

If it's cheaper than maybe the market leader, you might have some chance. If it's

as new as trip clip, the marketing that I would need behind

it just. It's a bottomless pit. You know, it would

be just money. Nobody, especially getting it to market.

The money's sewn up anyway. So

yeah, I'm back working full time as a chef and TripClip is,

is kind of my, you know, full time on my job, part time on

my fortune instead of the other way around. But

it's been really interesting to say the

least. Anyone I meet just thinks the products insane.

I've got two or three other designs. So

the TripClip, the travel pro, is quite complex to

make and can be seen as quite expensive.

But the other two models that I've invented should be

around 18 euro and the other one's 9.99. But I have

no money left to get them. To get them to exist.

So the only one that exists is the travel pro. And

yeah, it's just been, it's been a lot of juggling,

a lot of. Thankfully, I don't know any, any banks.

It was all our own money. So I mean,

I just couldn't imagine the stress of the strains of, of

banks sending you these warning letters. And

so I'm happy we've almost a two

year old. He's a lot of fun. He'll be two in June.

So been back working is great for

my head because it's obviously my profession for

30 years, so I can do it with my eyes closed. And

TripClip is just in the background for now.

Well, thank you so much for the update. And I have to say, I was

really, I think I said before we started recording, I was really surprised by your

update because when we last spoke, obviously people weren't traveling and

it was quite a difficult time. A couple of years on, I genuinely thought

everyone would have a TripClip because they are. And I'm not just saying

this, but you know, I have one. I think it's so useful.

So, yeah, I have to say. So I was surprised

and what's, I mean, do you have any thoughts on,

on why it hasn't taken off? Do you think it's the marketing that would be

needed to get it widely known because it is so unique, as you said

then that is really hard. Like the more I look at it, like first

to market usually is a graveyard for products and then the big boys

come in and see your idea and steal it. But

maybe if I had a million sold or, you

know, if it was more well known, the big boys might come and try

and, you know, buy my. The dream would be license it off me or

buy my patents, you know, but,

yeah, I mean, I'm not that comfortable on social media and things. If I was

a bit younger and comfortable doing it, maybe if

I did something every day for the last few years, like the.

The sales still exist. They're just not. They're not strong enough for me

not to. Not to do something else. Because in the background you've

got your trademarks and your patents at the moment

to update them and things. It's all

money. You know, I had investors lined up and things, but,

you know, things just fall over and some days I play around

the golf and somebody wants to invest and then the next day

it's just. It's just all mad.

I mean, a good influencer would. I'd probably sell. If they

were big enough, I'd probably sell 100,000 units and with

one good influencer, but, like, what they would cost me, I

don't have. You know, they might cost me 100,000,

but I might sell 100,000. That would be a euro

a unit, which is nothing. But you'd have to have

100,000 upfront and then it's. Nothing's a guarantee. You know, some

people have said they've come onto my website and they were uncomfortable purchasing because it's

so new. They were like, is it a scam? You know, I have

striped payments. Nothing to do with me. You know, when you. When you buy something,

you don't. You go off my website. Other people said it's a bit

pricey and what they do is they go straight on to wish to look for

the copycat for a fiverr. So, like, you

can't win. No, it's really hard. And I'm sorry to hear it

say hard. Yeah. I mean, originally you set up

Amazon for me. That's been an absolute nightmare. They

deactivated my account because they didn't have a UK VAT

registration number, which I've taken me 18 months to get. And I got

it yesterday. They gave me my VAT number yesterday, but my, my

Amazon listing still deactivated. So

they are an absolute nightmare

to work with, to deal with. Oh, my God, they are

absolutely. Yeah, that's kind of my life at the moment,

Joe. I may have had strong sales. Like, I'd really love to go

the Amazon route and FBI and still work away as a chef and

the better, you know, to just send in the product, let them take

their coat, let them be maybe a fiver unit for me

and sort of reduce what I

do professionally and go at it more. So I think the

reviews on Amazon would have been brilliant,

but I have it sus, now I'm going to work on

it in the background. Just let it trickle away. So full

time on my job and part time on my fortune

for now. Brilliant. Thank you for updating

me. And the second thing I'd love to know is based

on all of your experience, because you have a lot, what would your number one

piece of advice be for other product creators?

Yeah. It is 1 million times

harder than you think it's going to be. You've no

idea. You've no idea because you think you can focus solely

on this and like so many things happen

in families and around you that,

you know, when you're 100% on something,

so much so you've no idea, you do a business plan, you think, yeah, yeah,

yeah. You have this timeline and everything and life

happening around you is just, you know, hopefully it's all good, but

when it is, you know, when it is bad,

it's just, it's, it's just nearly impossible to juggle everything.

So your product or whatever may fail

due to, well, financial

finances for one. But yeah,

it's, it's 1 million times harder than

anybody is going to think that they're going to. If you think. If you think

you're going to work for yourself and you're going to go off into the sunset

in 18 months, it's 24 hours a day, seven days a

week. You won't sleep, you won't eat

and everything else goes on the back burner. So I just think it's,

if I was doing it again, me being me, I would do it, but

it's too much of a sacrifice. I would tell you almost

anybody to just, if you have good money and

a good job, maybe look into it, but just

don't, don't leave something to do something.

Definitely. Thank you very much for that,

Joe. Not at all.

Thank you so much for having me on again. It was great to see the

little email for an update and I love talking about it. I mean,

I just, yeah, it's still my passion. It's

just a lot harder than

we first thought. Even when we first met, I was like, yeah, Amazon, that's the

way to go. 1000 units a month. Happy days.

You'll get that. I really hope

you found Joe's update interesting. I next spoke with

Vanessa Afful Made By Pure Hands. Vanessa is an aromatherapist

who makes her own natural products. When we originally spoke, Vanessa shares

how lockdown gave her the opportunity to really focus on her massage

product range. So it's three years on. Let's see what's changed.

So. Hi, Vanessa. Thank you for joining me again. Thank you. Lovely

to be here. So it's been a while since we last spoke.

I think it's been coming up to three years, if I've got that right. I

would love to know. Yeah, that's a really long time. And I would love to

know what has changed of your business since then. I'm sure a lot.

Yeah, well, basically of. So, since we spoke, we were talking

a lot about my products. And I have

launched three ranges. Two sets of rollerballs, one

called aromatherapy, for to soothe, which is

a set of four relaxing rollerballs. And then that was done

in. I think that was 2022. In

2023, I launched another set of

rollerballs, and that collection was called aromatherapy for

success. And that's quite nice for

focus, for mental clarity. So

those types of rollerballs. And then I launched an essential oil

blend, arrange for Christmas, and I'm just developing it now to take

it into everyday use. Oh,

that's amazing. Thank you. And how are these ranges going?

Well, the first one I launched, because I think

when I did my first interview with you, it was when I appeared on your

podcast, I was talking about rollerballs, and they were really

popular. And so the idea that people can just buy them

from my website or at an event I'm doing has been

really, really done really well. Particularly sweet

dreams. I think people are struggling with sleep. So that's been one of the

popular one from the soothing collection

and then from the success collection. Get focused.

Those are the two that are super popular. Also,

I launched another. I did a collaboration with one of the rollerballs called

Bee Happy. It's a Bee Happy gift set. So it comes with

a crochet bee by another small business called Mockingbird

Makes. And it's a Bee Happy rollerball,

and it comes with a pack of seeds. So that was also

really popular. And we like to bring that out for

World Bee Day and things like that. So, yeah, that's a really nice one as

well. That is really nice. And of course, I know Shannon because she was also

a guest on this podcast. Yes. It's such a small

world. Oh, so that's amazing. So other than your rollerballs,

is there anything else that's going on at the moment? Yes. So

basically I had been selling my rollerballs and all the new

products on my website. So I actually opened up a website shop

now. So you can, the bespoke products are still

there, but you can also buy products just from

the shop page. But I'm going to start doing my first sets of markets

this year and my first one is going to be in July and that's going

to be with the solo craft fair and we're going to be at the South

Bank. Oh, amazing. Oh, so anyone who's

local to London or visiting over the summer can come and see you? Yeah. So

I'm really excited because it's my first market. Shannon

has actually been helping me out, giving me lots of advice and

how to set up and the solo craft fair have been amazing. So

yes, I'm really looking forward to actually showcasing all my products

there. That's really exciting. And I guess especially with your products being

ones that are. So I'm trying to think of the. Right word for this, but

obviously because they're scent based, it'd be really nice of people to be able to

come along and actually smell the products and get a real sense for them

because I think you've done amazingly well selling scented

products online because I think that must be one of the hardest things to sell

on a website that is. And I think the

way that I've got around it is I put tester sticks on my site. So

you can order free test sticks, you just pay for the

postage. So there's any of the oils, rollerballs or

oils you want to smell. I can then send out those samples to

you. But yeah, it's a big challenge. I noticed that when

I've done events, it's like in my

clinic or things like that, people, when they smell the rollerballs, want to buy

them more. So it is a bit harder to get to convey that

on a website. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting out and meeting

people and it's. Really exciting to hear about your testers though, because I don't know

if you did that when we spoke before. So I think that's such a good

idea. I did, I did them for the bespoke products because I started

to get, I think because we were in lockdown, I started to get people who

weren't local ordering bespoke products. So I was sending out tester

sticks then, but now I now use them for the

shop products as well. And so yeah, there's a few other things as well. I

now do a rest and restore kit as well, which comes with an eye

pillow and some lavender products from a local lavender field. So there's

lots more that I'm doing and it's so nice to

bring aromatherapy to get it out there. Well,

that's amazing. And yeah, so much has gone on, but I guess, yeah, it

has been a long time, but I always feel when I do this, it has

been a long time, but it hasn't. If you see what. Absolutely.

Time has gone very quickly. So my second question

for you, Vanessa, and I did ask you this first time round,

but this isn't a test. You don't have to say the same thing because obviously

things have changed in the last few years, is what would your number one piece

of advice be for other product creators? I think

being part of a community, I mean, initially for me,

it was getting a mentor, which I did get, and someone helped me

develop my products and I use somebody in the

aromatherapy industry, an organization, so they

helped me get my products out there. But I think in this current

climate where things are, we are in the cost of living crisis as

we record product business are struggling. I think

the community is much needed because if you're out there by

yourself, you may think that it's just your products or you're doing something wrong.

So being part of a community, great. There are

so many great product based communities out there now, and I

think being part of that really helps you deal with the

stress and the anxiety that can happen when you are a product

business. Thank you so much. I think that's great advice because you're absolutely

right. I think whoever you are and whatever your situation, it's just nice

to know there's other people experiencing similar things. You just

feel so much less alone. Yeah. Well, thank

you so much, Vanessa. So we're obviously going to link to your website in the

show notes so people can come and see your new range of products as well

as your bespoke ones. And hopefully you'll get some visitors from the

podcast to your store in July as well. Oh, thank you so much,

Vicky. It's so nice talking to you again. You do. Thank you.

So, after speaking with Vanessa, my next guest to catch up with is

Nancy Powell from heard bags. Heard makes hard working reusable

bags from plastic water box bottles. Sustainability is really important

to Nancy, and we spoke about that a lot during our first conversation,

and I think you're going to be really interested to hear how that's fed into

what she's doing now. So, hi again,

Nancy. Thank you so much for catching up with me. My pleasure.

So I would love to know what has changed since we last spoke.

Oh, kind of everything and nothing, I suppose

heard is moving forward, got good

sales. It continues to do well

and wholesale, particularly I

think in the last couple of years with customers like design Museum,

London and New York Museum of Modern Art. That's a really,

really good niche that herds kind of dropped into.

And those kind of wholesale customers are fantastic because it's sort

of like a big order and it creates sort of a revenue

stream that requires less labor than those sort of

individual transactional customers. But so heard

continues, but everything else around herd has very much changed

in the sense that I've gone back. I'm juggling it alongside

a full time job now, which is something that was different to when

we last spoke with my. Lots of things

sort of drove that decision. My professional experience

is corporate sustainability and there's a lot of demand

for that in the, in the workplace. There was a

time, there was a moment when my husband's work was looking

uncertain. So we decided, okay, I'll go back

into formal workplace and maybe we'll hedge our

bets. We've now ended up sort of with full time, two full time

jobs and a business to run, but all

good stuff. And I've gone back to work in

corporate sustainability, which also sort of has

created another enormous workload, but also feeds and

provides, I suppose, lots of the stimulation I have for thinking about

my own business. I work for HP who sell

tech and I suppose they are

obviously a much larger business than me, but they're still a

retail business. And so there's lots of things that I suppose stimulate my

thinking in terms of what I can take into my own business and

the different things I can do. But also I kind of, it does

make me think more frequently what does the future look like? You know, is heard

going to be something that I continue evolve, wrap into something

else? I don't know. And I'm really taking my time to make that

decision. Thank you so much for the update. I think your

wholesale, you know where your stock now is, by the way. So exciting.

Yes, I just think how amazing. So congratulations on

that. Fantastic. I think your job as

well comes as well. I don't say no surprise, but I mean,

when we spoke before, we spoke so much. I don't know if you remember our

conversation, it was years ago now, but we spoke so much about sustainability and it

was clear just how important that is to

you and Mister heard. So it's, you know, it seems like a

very obvious sort of fit that you're doing that kind of

work. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's an area that every

organization is looking at in a lot more detail, not just

for regulatory reasons, but for many others as well.

And it's also, aside from the content, it's

exciting being in work. It's sometimes exciting

to go into an office, be in teams, meet

people and have that stimulus. And again, that's

something that feeds everything else in your life, doesn't it?

So, yes, it's busy, very busy, but

it's exciting. Absolutely. And I think, as you say, as well,

like, there's the one danger of working by yourself for yourself is

you can become a bit of a silo. And I guess what's really good is

that, as you say, you're going out meeting people and you learn and hear different

things. I think that that must all just feed into everything you're

doing. It does. I think lots of people, lots of entrepreneurs I've

met through herd are very natural networkers,

connectors, and can create community

of people around them. That is not a natural skill set that I

have. And I think work almost gives me a sort of

enforced network, gives me an enforced sort of

need to communicate, to kind of get out of myself a bit. I'm

very happy in my own company. So it's, you

know, I think different people. I think there's so many people I've met who

would never go back to the formal workplace because they feel

liberated in their own space. I feel

very happy sort of straddling both worlds, and we'll see how

long I can keep it going. But at the moment it feels like

it's really working for me. That's amazing. And I think, yeah, that's,

you need to do what works for you, and what works for everyone is totally

different. So that's amazing and thank you for sharing your update. Now,

before I let you go, Nancy, I would love to know, my second question for

you is, what would your number one piece of advice be for other product

businesses? So this is a piece of

advice that I was given very early on in my

career, and it doesn't relate to product businesses, but it's something that I have

reflected on a lot in running my product

business, and that's make decisions, that successful people make

decisions. And if they make bad decisions, they then make a different decision to

take them out of that bad decision. But don't be a person who's

afraid to make a decision, because if you're making decisions,

you're moving forward and I think that sense,

particularly when you're, you know, when you're driving your own business, that

sense of momentum is what's required. You always need to

feel like you're headed in a direction, and if it's the wrong direction,

take a different decision, change direction, change trajectory, but

make decisions and don't be a fence sitter.

That's brilliant advice. Thank you so much, Nancy.

I hope you found that as interesting as I did. So I have also

caught up with Silvina Devita from my papercut forest, who I was

really excited to finally meet in real life earlier this year and ask her

in person if she'd like to come back onto the podcast. Silvina hand makes

original artworks, and when we first spoke, she was Etsy team captain for

Brighton. Silvina still sells on Etsy today, as you'll hear,

but has some other very exciting updates, too.

So. Hi, Silvina, thank you so much for talking with me again.

Hi, Vicky, how are you? I'm really excited just to be here. Oh,

thank you. And it was really lovely to see you in person at top draw

earlier this year. And, yeah, really excited just to share what you've been

up to in the last couple of years with everyone. Yes. Thank you so much

for having me back. I mean, great.

I'm still happy just to still be in business and it was so lovely to

see at top drawer and to see familiar faces. So

it was really nice. Thank you. So tell us

all what's changed since we last spoke almost three years

ago now. Yes, we were just thinking that we

last, the last time we spoke was 2021. So

lots changed in the past three

years after kind of

full start in 2020 with my wholesale. I think we

had a little chat that I studied my wholesale on January

2020, and of course

then the world absolutely changed.

But thankfully in 2022, I really

pick up things and now

wholesale is a big, big part of my business.

I was really, really lucky

just to get a grant from the department

of international trade last year to

do my first international trade show in New

York. So in February

2023, I went with my brand for the first

time to New York, to New York now,

and it was fantastic. And this year

it February. Last month I went again for second time

and it was phenomenal. So definitely the

wholesale really grow and now have an

international market. And then that means now that I'm

employing two people who can

work with me and they're both moms, they are incredibly

amazing. I wouldn't know what to do without them. So,

so yeah, it's been a lot of changes

since 2021. Yeah, very good.

That is a lot of change. And so the people who work for you

now, what are they doing? Are they doing the making or other parts of your

business? So they work like part

time because as well they have their own business and that's what I think. I

love that they are business owners as well.

So it kind of works in some symbiosis. You know,

we both like work each other, sorry, help each other, you know,

in the work. So they

sometimes help me packing when we have massive orders

as well. Another one of

them as well helped me a little bit with the admin, but we're

rolling these kind of branches that basically as well

they, we all branch. So then I can help them with

their business. So I feel like, you know, it's just

not only they just come and do the job, but I

really want them, you know, to succeed in their own businesses.

And what I can bring is just experiences of being doing this for twelve

years and they kind of started maybe two years ago. So

yeah, it worked really well. That does work really well.

That's really nice. And that also leads me on to the other thing I wanted

to ask if you were still doing because I think this ties in so nicely

is are you still the lead for Etsy in Brighton?

I stepped down in December after five

years. That was, you know, five

years long time and it just

needed change. And also my team, the

leaders that they were just doing it with me as well, we were five of

us, we all decided to step down as a team. So we

give the opportunity to other team and other people just to lead.

But also, you know, after five years it feels that we as

well needed just to take time for our own businesses. You know,

me and the four leaders, our business was growing

and we just needed just to take time, just to kind of maybe focus a

little bit more. But absolutely still, you know, with the

community, I'm really interested in

the local businesses and what's happening recently.

I've been invited to ECHQ, I think last week or

a week ago, so still involved

in the Etsy as a market and I'm really interested in how

just to get the best for the platform, for other sellers

as I think it's a great way for selling if you

are a product business. Absolutely. And I can see

why after five years why you would have felt the need to step down because

it must have been such a big time commitment for you. Absolutely.

And we were all like doing it pro bono. We

were just doing it for free, like no one. And that's.

We did absolutely fine and with all our heart. But it gets to the

time in some point, after five years, when, you know, with your

families and the children and all the things with life,

we felt that, okay, it's time just to, you know, as a unit

or step down as well. So, still running

with lovely, lovely people, a lovely team is running it now and

still going and doing socials and events. It's just.

Yeah, we needed a little bit of a change. Well, thank you for updating

all of that. And so my second question for you, Sylvaina, is what would

your number one piece of advice be for other product creators?

Well, I have three. Yeah,

of course. Three advice, which I think it is really important.

I'm going just to be concise. I think the number one will be,

know your numbers. If you have a business,

you must be doing profit. And if you're not doing profit,

it's a very expensive hobby. I say this to, like,

all my friends who own

small businesses, you know, like, you need to know the cost of each

product and how much you're doing in each sale. You know, it's

very, very important to work your costs regularly. Maybe just

check if there's other provider that can give you, I don't know, a better

price on boxes. So go back to them. Hey, can you just do a

price for me? I think it's very important, the communication of the cost.

And it's something that is, yes, really boring. But we

have just to do as a small business, just to keep, you know, the

profit there and particularly how things are going at the moment. I think in the

UK, you know, it's an important one. I think the second one is.

And also how great in being a small business

is, how great that we can pivot, that we can change

things. Something is not work. It's not working. Like, I don't know, a

product is not working, just. Just dump it, you know, like, you can just do

that or rework it or see why it's not working. Just, we

have so much possibility to change as a small business. I think

that, you know, because we can do that, you know, that there's an. There's an

easiness just to the change. And I think the third one, which

I think is the most important one, I will say take

dates with yourself. And I know this sounds quite weird, but I

think book time off on the calendar,

to go to an exhibition, to go to a museum, to read a

good book, or just to go for a walk

with an audiobook about business. I think it's very important for a creative

mind to just take time

off, because as a creative brain, I think the

most wonderful ideas come when you're doing something else, like

while you are doing the walk or doing a swimming or in

the shower. So I think it's imperative if you're stuck

in the business, to actually remove yourself and just say,

well, I'm doing something else and the problem will work out on its.

So it always happens. Well,

thank you. I think. Yeah, that was three pieces, but they were all amazing pieces

of advice, so we will accept it. Thank you so much

and it was lovely to catch up with you. Thank you. Thank you for having

me, Vicki. Yeah, all the best.

So thank you to Silvina for sharing that at the end of

2021, I spoke with Janet Murray about creating, creating and selling

planners. Janet is one of the UK's leading content marketing

experts and the creator of the Courageous Content Planner. When we first

spoke, we talked about creating planners, of course, and Janet also shared some

great content marketing advice for products businesses. Let's hear her advice

for you today. So, hi, Janet. Thank you for

coming to speak with me again. Thank you for having me. So

I would love to know, since we last spoke, which was almost three years ago

now, what has changed? You were here before talking about your planner and

so what's changed since then? Of course, lots has changed.

So still selling the planner? I'll talk more

about that in a second. But I've changed the offer

quite a lot. And one of the things that I

was finding was that the price

of the planner, well, there are a few things, really,

but because mine was a content and business

planner, um, it's really important to me that if people invest in one of my

products, that, you know, it works for them and they get good results. And

so something I always really struggled with was people be like, oh, I bought your

planner and like, you know, I haven't got a million pound business. And of course,

we all know that, obviously investing in any

resource for your business, you know, you got to do the

work. And so I've tried

always to provide supporting resources. So

social media, post templates, different types of content templates and

training to ensure people actually don't just buy the thing that

sits on the desk and they actually do it. And, you know, I think I've,

I've got better and better, um, you

know, at sort of providing better resources and things.

But, you know, at the end of the day, you can take a horse to

water and all that. But you, you can't make them drink. But it makes me

feel better just to know that we've, you know, just tried. But one thing I

was finding is when I was selling the planner only

I wanted to move away from that because like I

say, just buying a business planner, if you don't actually use it, you don't implement

any of the stuff, you don't think about the strategy because for me, you know,

content, and it's all about publishing the right content at the right time, not just

publishing any old content. So I

decided to, so I had a stage because

I've been through different, different stages where you could just buy the planet or you

could buy supporting resources. And I decided this year

to just sell the planet and the supporting

resources and to make the decision to sell less but the price will be higher,

which has actually gone well in terms of revenue. And part

of the motivation behind that was to,

in the nicest possible way to discourage those kind of clients because I

think pricing, sometimes

it's one of your tools in terms of you attracting the right customers

for your product. And I was attracting people who were just like, oh,

this is a pretty planner and oh great. My business is, you

know, and those people can often be the people

that require the most customer service and the most, you know, they're asking

questions and wondering why they don't get one to ones for their, you know, 37

pound planner, whatever. So from a revenue point of view,

it's worked really well. You know, I've not seen a dip in, in

revenue from the planner

and I've also, I feel like

personally, although I'm not quite sure now, but I feel personally

that I've come to the end of the road with that product and I've thought

about selling it and I've actually sort of made inroads to kind of selling it

because although I think it's a great product and it's got great, it's been going

for like seven, eight years, got big audience lists and customer list and

a lot of loyalty, there's a part of me that feels like I've taken it

as far as I could do and maybe somebody else could take it on the

next stage. So I have considered selling it

and making tentative moves towards that. At the moment, I'm still a little bit

unsure because for me it's about, it needs to be the right person or business

that sells and I haven't found that yet.

And it's become, it's still a big part of my business,

in a way, it's become a bigger part of my business because I've

dropped. I had a lot of digital products that I used to sell alongside it.

So, yeah, I don't know if any of that's kind of helpful. There's a lot

there. No, it's really helpful. Thank you. That's a lot that's

changed. And with all you've taken all that into account,

Janet, what would your advice for other people be?

I think when clients say to me about

increasing sales of products, the one thing I always want to look at is

how can we sell more in one go rather than,

for example, there's a client I've worked with who's got a

pet product and I feel like they come back to me every year and ask

the same things. And I'm like, yes, there are

things that you can do to drive more traffic to your website or Amazon if

you're selling on Amazon or whatever. But actually

what might be a better way or a way to explore is to look at,

well, how can I partner with brands where I might be able to sell

more of them in one go, or how might I be able to bundle up

products together? So for me, I'm always looking at

what's going to be. The less work I take, the less time. So sometimes that

might be about, you know, what can I do to bundle products together?

Like with products, how can I get rid of things that are actually taking up

a lot of time and energy but aren't my best sellers? It might be about

streamlining in my case, because it's a

business resource, something that I've

always done is tried to offer training to go alongside it and resources to help

with implementation. So it's about providing more value.

But basically what I'm getting to is how can you increase the.

What's the word I'm looking for the. Revenue from each sale. And how can you

do it in a way that doesn't involve you? Just

keep selling to, you know, one after the other afterwards? Does that kind of make

sense? Yeah, that does. I think it makes total sense because presumably, if

you've got these products, you need to be thinking about how to maximize what you

have. So I see a lot of people doing bundling that seems to be really

popular lately. A lot of my clients are looking, okay, can

I sell this with this? Or this makes a nice add on to that because

I think just increasing your average order value makes a lot of sense as

well. Something I've also done this year, which might be quite useful

is I hadn't done as much audience building as I normally would have done at

this stage in the year. So I partnered with other,

with other sort of online, I don't

know, coaches or consultants or whatever, and I paid them

for me to deliver master classes, which you might

think, oh, you're paying to get in front of. But they were exactly the right

people for me. Different industries, and

it was cheaper than Facebook advertising. And, you know,

it's advantageous to them because they're getting a

masterclass. It's all above board because then, you know, I can make a

pitch at the end and I've actually,

again, it's not just about that in my case, that just one product that you've

sold, but, you know, I've had a few much bigger clients that

have come from that. That's been their sort of entry level product.

So. So I think it's also just about, again, it's

about thinking about different ways that you can get in front of new audiences and

not just thinking, oh, Google Ads or Facebook ads are thinking about

more creative ways, thinking about more cost effective ways to get in front

of more of the right kind of people for you.

That's so helpful. Thank you. I think you're right. I think that's a really good

example of doing something quite different because I haven't heard of anyone else paying

to deliver content on people's audiences before because I think often

people are looking to get paid to do that. That's. No, I see.

But I think knowing that they were the exact sort of right

clients for you, that does make total sense. I guess it's also, there's something about

just thinking differently. Yeah, it's added, it's

a list builder, so I've added, like hundreds of new people to my

email list. But also I made sales as well. And not just sales with the

product, but also other sales that came off the back of it

because they're new potential customers, you know, it's like a great way of

growing leads for obviously, for particular type of businesses. Yeah,

of course. And I guess knowing so that it, and also, I guess, comes back

to the basics of sort of knowing who your ideal client is to even

identify, you know, where to. Where to find them or, you know,

whose audience they might already be in. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for everything you shared, Janet.

No, I'm glad to be of help. Thank you. And it's always

nice to catch up.

Some great advice, as always, from Janet. Next. I spoke with

Cara Sayer from SnoozeShade about creating a unique product and selling it.

With huge success on Amazon, SnoozeShade is a best

selling range of baby, sun and sleep shades. Cara was really candid in our

first interview. She shared a lot with us, and I'm delighted to say that she

was just as candid in this catch up, too. Cara has some great advice

for you that I just can't wait for you to hear.

So thank you for talking with me again, Cara. Pleasure. Always

nice to have a catch up. It is. It's been a long time, and

I would love to know in the. I think we've worked out it's three years

since you were last on the podcast. Love to know what has changed. What's new

with you? God, what isn't new with me, really?

I think just generally, yeah. I mean, in some

ways, everything is new. In some ways, nothing is new. I think that's the thing,

especially when you're running a brand which is kind

of doing the same thing, if you know what I mean.

But I suppose in terms of things that are new, I mean, I've just

launched a new product which is going down really well.

And what else? I mean, it's just

every day is a new day, and we do something different. I mean, that's part

of the reason I love doing what I do, actually, is just that, you know,

I mean, sometimes it can be a real headache, if I'm honest. And, like, you

know, like, even in the last three weeks, I've had about three things happen where

I'm like, oh, my God, you know, my patience is being

tested. And it's one of those things where it's like, you know,

what's that thing? If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. And I'm quite

often going, I'm strong enough. Leave me alone.

Sometimes you just want to sit on. A beach with a cocktail and then, you

know. But I think, if I'm honest, one of the things probably, that I've learned

more is, like last year, for example, I did a lot of traveling with work,

but actually, I lost what I didn't realize. I'd kind of lost sight of my

numbers a little bit, and I didn't realize that some parts of the world weren't

performing as well as they should be. And, in fact, they were actually a negative

rather than a positive. So, like, the last probably, I'd say

eight months have been spent really analyzing the numbers,

really crunching. So, actually, one thing that is new is I've actually

got a budget, which I've never had before, because,

interestingly, when I used to work for other companies, I was an

employee. You quite often had to have a budget, you know,

but running my own business, I've always kind of just done it a bit more

seat in my pants. And it's usually been, oh, well, I've got enough money coming

in, so I can do this and I can do that, and that's fine. But

like I said, I sort of lost track of the numbers. If I'm honest, I

feel a bit of a moron for doing that. I feel a bit of an

idiot. But I think it happens to everyone.

And, you know, you get so sucked into that day to day kind

of like stuff that you maybe lose that bigger picture

overview. And I'm always the first person who will say that, you

know, profit is, sorry, turnover is sanity,

and profit is no, turnover

is vanity, and profit is sanity. And I think,

really, what happened the last few years, I probably just didn't pay enough attention

to the sanity numbers and was looking too much at the. The

vanity numbers. And I think it's always a good wake up call for

any business owner to actually maybe have a session, like, working

those numbers hard. And usually when I find out something's wrong,

it's usually because there's been some kind of mess up with my accounts in some

way. And then that requires for me to go in and do some super sleuthing.

And that's what I had to do back last year. And then once I started

looking into the numbers, I was like, hang on a minute. That doesn't make sense.

Hang on a minute, that's not right. Or hang on a minute. And then when

I then started, I was like, oh, my God. And I did literally have a

moment last year, last July, where I was, like, thinking, do you know what?

I'm just going to give up. I'm just going to stop the business. I'm going

to go and get a job. But I am unemployable,

so I think that would have been a bad idea. And then actually, what I

did instead is I honed in on the numbers and very much

started looking at things much more analytically, and I think that's

really helped. Well, thank you for being so honest about that. And I think

you're right. It's so easy to take your eye off the ball, whether it's the

numbers or something. It's really easy, especially when things are something, isn't it?

Yeah. We're juggling so many balls. I'm surprised we don't lose more,

frankly, that go flying over our shoulder, and then we forget about them and forget

to pick them up. Yeah. And then we get to go round scrabbling around wondering

where we left them. I knew there was a ball. It went over that

wall somewhere. Thank you. And also, I really liked

what you said about how, like, nothing's changed but lots has

changed, because I think you're right. I think with our businesses.

Yeah. It can definitely feel like that, that a lot has changed,

but actually not much has. Yeah. So that was a really good way. I

like where you sum that up. My second question for you,

Cara, and you've already given us some advice, so maybe see if you can

think of something else. What would your number one

piece of advice be for other product creators at the moment?

So one of the things that I hadn't been looking at was my product

cost. And I think what happened was that

I just basically just kind of accepted, when

I was told that the price had gone up, I kind of accepted that, like,

oh, well, it must have gone up. But then, actually, when I started analyzing, becoming

more analytical, so what I did was I was at one point,

looking to find a new manufacturer because I was like, I can't sustain these, this

level of cost because I'm not making enough money to run a business on. And

that becomes quite a hard conversation to have, but it's an

essential one. And I think that's one of the things I would say to people

is, and I'm guilty of this for sure, is, you know, not that you're not.

You're not running a business, but, like, you're not running a charity. You. You are

running a business, and you must treat it like a business. And actually,

if it wasn't to operate on a profitable turnover basis where

you're supporting yourself, then what the hell are you doing? You know,

because, you know, you're not putting all that hard work in so that you

don't get any benefit. You might as well go and get a job. So it

was a really hard conversation to have. But what I also did is I became

much more analytical about the products in terms of, I was like, well, actually, hang

on a minute. This product uses exactly the same amount of fabric. It uses exactly

the same amount of trim. This product uses the trim that that product uses.

And I produce, like, 50,000 of that color. So, you know,

why is that one more expensive than that one, for example? And we just needed

to have a kind of a complete rejig and then once, once we did

that again, the cost did come down

and I was able to carry on using the same manufacturer I've been using the

whole time, which was great because I've got a long term relationship.

Didn't want to have to leave if I didn't have to. But at the same

time, I was literally, it was a bit like when I got divorced and I

stopped using distributors because I was like, I'm really sorry. I either

carry on working with you and I make so little money that I can't

live or I shut the business down, in which case, either way, you're going to

lose the business. So it's, you know, and I think sometimes you have to have

these hard conversations. I don't like doing it because I always, and

I like to feel if I'm having those sorts of conversations, I

have to almost feel like my back's up against a wall in order to do

it because I don't like, I don't like confrontation. If I'm really

honest, I will do it, don't get me wrong. But, you know, I don't like

that idea of I'm a people pleaser, so I don't like upsetting

people, which is ridiculous because I do as well.

But no, I think really keep it, keep a really close eye on, if you're

a product creator, keep close eye on your product costs because, and also get

your, whoever's manufacturing for you to justify those costs. Don't just

accept them willy nilly, which is what I was doing. And,

you know, and actually make sure you've got a plan that is like,

well, this product should cost this much, this should cost that. And then if any

cost increases or even sometimes it can also be, for

example, one of the reasons costs have crept up was because the dollar

rate had gone all over the place. Well, the dollar rates back down again now.

So the price of the product should go back down. So it's little things like

that where you need to just be aware of what's going around

generally and don't just sort of absorb all the

costs that you have. Maybe

that's such good advice. Thank you. Because as a fellow people

pleaser, I know, I find that hard as well to actually

question and say, why is that like that? Why are you? Yeah,

that can be really awkward. But I totally agree. It's so important because

you need to have that sort of visibility and just know

that this is why this is as it is. You don't, it doesn't matter if

they. Turn around and say, because this particular item, that this particular ingredient

component or whatever, has got 20% more expensive in the last year, you're like,

okay, fine, but then it split. But you see, the thing was, for me was

that my. There wasn't a uniformity of increases and so

I wanted to know why they weren't uniform. And a lot of it was. I

think, if I'm really honest, it was probably because we'd never been that analytical in

producing the product in the first place. No one had, like, my manufacturer or me.

So therefore we both sat down together and worked out. We were like, oh, yeah,

actually that makes sense. And so we did work together

and then it just all kind of came out, you know, came

out in the wash, I suppose, to a certain extent. I think that's brilliant. Thank

you so much, Cara. That's my pleasure.

And thank you so much for that, Cara. And finally, I

caught up with sasha Gupta from cheeky zebra. Sasha designs and

sells fun and cheeky greeting cards. A real life. I've been following Sasha

online since we first spoke, and I can see just how much her product range

has expanded in such a short time. When we first spoke, she just started

out of wholesale and it was great to hear where she is with both wholesaling

and her product range. Another few years on. Hi,

Sasha. It's so nice to talk to you again. Thank you. I was just

thinking that it was lovely to see your face. Yeah, it's been a

long time. I feel like I see you a lot all over Instagram, but we

haven't spoken in a really long time. Yeah, I thought that, because when you

messaged, I was like, yeah, we haven't actually spoken, but, you know, when you follow

someone, you do feel like you're kind of still in contact, don't you?

Definitely. But for everyone who sort of

isn't as up to date on what you're doing as I am, I would love

for you to share with us what's changed with your business since we last spoke.

I feel like it's a lot and I would love for you to update us

all. Yeah, I feel like it's a lot, too. I'm trying to remember when we

last spoke. Do you know if I was just selling. I think I was just

selling cards, potentially. You were. It was just cards.

It was just cards then. That feels crazy to me now. So now we

do. So, yeah, we've massively upped the product mix. So it's gone from.

Because obviously one of the problems that I was having with just cards is the

average order value, so low. So we now do

cards, candles, mugs, notebooks,

sweatshirts. And actually, I'm. I can tell you,

because it's okay, I'm launching stationery in a couple of

weeks as well. So, like, yeah, massively. If I had to say

it out loud, I'm a bit like, whoa. It has changed a lot.

I think cards have gone from being, you know, our whole business to, I think

now. I looked at the product mix the other day and it's like 50%.

Wow. Which is huge. That is huge. And in a

relatively short space of time as well, because we last spoke three

years ago and it was just cards, and three years isn't very long, Sasha.

And in fact, it might have been two and a half, because I can't. I

feel like maybe it was like two and a half. Do you know what? I'm

glad you've said that because I'm always feeling as though, like, I'm not going fast

enough and these changes aren't happening quick enough. So I

actually appreciate you being like, no, that is quite a lot of new things to

have in a relatively short space of time. It is. And especially

for all those new things to be, like, 50% of your sales as well. That's

crazy. I think. Crazy good. I mean, yeah, no, it's brilliant, but it has been

crazy. And it's been a bit of a. Obviously, you have more product experience, but,

like, it's quite a steep learning curve where I found it to be. And I

think I have a business mentor. And the biggest piece of feedback she

gave me was that I need to put more effort into productivity. She

was like, I think you can spend. You rush it because you're so trying to

chase your tail with stuff. And ever since, she kind of told me that I've

really spent time in engineering product and making sure it works. And it's been.

I actually think I heard someone else say that the more hours you spend on

product development has a direct correlation in terms of your

sales afterwards. Yeah, I can see that would make

sense. So I've definitely been trying. I definitely don't spend forever

on it, but I've definitely been trying to give it more. More time.

Well, I think it's great. And, I mean, you have. You've just told us, like,

all these products that you have. I have my mug, by the way. Look. Ah.

That's one of my favorite things I ever did. I had to show you

that because it is literally right here. I've just had a couple. I love that

you use it. That makes me so happy. I love it, honestly. It's such a

happy mug. So, yes, you have so many new products

and I think when we just, when we spoke last time as well, you had

just started wholesale with your product and you had like, quite big

targets. How does, how's that going, if you don't mind me asking? Oh, no, of

course. Always ask. So I worked with Terese, who's more business

collaborative. She helped me so much. And now I'd say we

have like a good, I'd say we have about ten regular

customers now and they're ordering from us about

every, say, two months, six weeks to two

months. And that's like huge just because, you know,

sometimes when you're direct to consumer, sales can be low because they're so

dependent on social media, whatever

else, it's just like, feels a bit more confidence to just keep

the lights on. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. And that's amazing because,

yeah, when we spoke, you, I think you were just about to start working with

Therese. It was so new. So that's amazing. She was

so helpful because I was very like, oh, I don't know about all of this.

And it turns out, like, I wouldn't say it's like a massive, my priority now

is more direct to consumer, but the fact that I've got those relationships and they

take us through, it's so valuable.

Yeah, absolutely. I think you're right. It's just nice to

know, isn't it? You've got those bigger orders to kind of take some of

the empty on. Yeah. Yeah. And

so thank you so much for sharing. I can't. That is quite such a lot,

actually, in such a short, relatively short space of time.

So based on all that you've done in last couple of years, I would love

to know, and I know I asked you this before, but given that, you know,

you've had so much growth in over the last few years, what would your number

one piece of advice be for other product creators now?

Actually, it would be, it's not

focus, basically. So someone said this to me

and it's like this analogy of, say you've got five coins a

day. So say you wake up tired where I only have like five coins of

energy, and it's just like, be really intentional about where you spend

them. So before, I was spreading myself quite thin. So now at the start of

each week, I'm like, what are the three things that are actually going to push

the business forward? And I'm not allowed to make them everyday things.

So my everyday things would be like the content, the emails, you know,

business as usual stuff. And then it's a case of being like, okay, if

I only have, I would think I would sleep last night. So if I've got

three coins today, where do I want to spend them? And so being

really intentional. And then it also makes me think, like, if you've only got three

coins, Sasha, now you have no energy to worry about what's going to

happen if it doesn't work. So it's almost just being a lot

more direct with my focus of, like, just keep plugging away

at the things and don't even give yourself the time to worry if

they don't work because almost see it as the more you get after it,

the more you'll have an answer one way or the other. And then once you've

got that answer, even if you don't know right now what you'll do, if that

doesn't work, by the time you get there, you will know. That makes a

lot of sense. I think it's just doing something, isn't it? Because actually we can

waste a lot of those coins on thinking about doing something or

deciding whether to do something. Or, like, watching somebody else do really well and being

like, I'm not going to do my thing or even yet also just being swayed

by whatever somebody else is doing. And I definitely struggle with procrastination

because of just fear. So now I'm a bit like, no, you've got

so much to get done and you've only got this much to use it for.

It's like the reframes just helped me, like, not waste as much time

procrastinating. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And I also

think it's really nice for you to be so honest about, you know, that you

sometimes don't do things out of fear because what we see of you online, you

look, like, so confident and you're moving ahead

and. Doing all the things. So thank you for saying that. Because I think, like

you were saying about sometimes you look at what other people are doing and you.

And you go, oh, I couldn't do that. Or I couldn't be like them. I

couldn't have that busy. So I couldn't, you know what? We spend way too much

time, or we can comparing ourselves. So I think it's really

nice when people just go, yeah, it's actually not that easy for me either. I

just do it. I appreciate you saying that because I think when I,

because I don't ever want anyone to follow me in line and be like, oh,

she, she can do it because she's just not scared. That's why it's okay for

her. When in reality it's like, no, I am scared, but I just

force myself to just keep going. And I think somebody else, the same woman,

I think, is Chloe Slade, she always has this thing about your bounce back rate,

and I've just been really working on that. And it's like, how quickly

you'll get over something. So, like, for example, in a day, I

might suddenly see someone else doing way better than being like, I should give up

tomorrow. I'm hardly making anything compared to them. Whatever. And I'll have, like, this spiral

of thoughts. And now I'm like, okay, how quickly can I get from feeling

like that to just being like, okay, that's nice. Now let's go carry on with

work. So I've made that, like, an active thing. I've started being, I

found that quite helpful as well. That's so helpful. Thank you. Because

I hadn't actually, as silly as it says, I hadn't actually thought about actually

being aware of that because I think we all experience it, but I think

actually being aware of, oh, I am feeling like this and how quickly can I

get over it is actually really, that's another really good piece of advice. I actually

really like. Now I'm like, oh, let's see if I can get, like,

get over this quicker than, yes, like, earlier. Like, it becomes this game and it

forces you to, like, I guess, bounce back quicker.

Oh, I like it. Thank you. Thank

you so much for all of this, all you've shared in all your updates. I

think we've got, as with like, your update, we've got loads in a really

short space of time. Thank you. Oh, perfect. I really enjoyed it.

Right, and thank you to Sasha for talking to me. Well,

that is the end of our catch up episode and I would love to know

how you found it. Did you like hearing everyone's updates? Are

there any other previous guests you're curious about? I am wondering if it's a

bit too soon for a 2022 update, but let me know. You

can contact me via the link in the show notes. And I am genuinely always

really happy to hear from you, to hear your questions, to hear your feedback.

So please don't be shy. Let me know what you thought about this episode and

let me know which episode you would like to hear in future and have

a lovely rest of your day whenever you are listening to this. And I

look forward to sharing another episode with you next week.