TJ Blackwell and Andy Walsh dive deep into the quirks and complexities of Michael Scott from "The Office", unveiling the layers behind this iconic character who often straddles the line between hilarity and cringe. They explore how Michael’s desperate need for friendship shapes his questionable management style, revealing that his antics stem from a tragic backstory filled with loneliness and a longing for connection. The duo shares their experiences with the show, discussing how Michael’s evolution reflects not only the growth of the character but also the changing dynamics at Dunder Mifflin. With a blend of insightful analysis and casual banter, they dissect Michael's relationships with iconic characters like Jim and Dwight while touching on the show's cultural impact. Listeners can expect a relaxed yet thought-provoking conversation that both challenges and celebrates the legacy of "The Office" and its unforgettable characters.

Michael Scott, the beloved yet cringe-worthy character from "The Office", takes center stage in this episode of Systematic Geekology, as TJ Blackwell and Andy Walsh dive into the complexities of his character. They kick things off by reminiscing about their personal connections to the show, highlighting how Michael, portrayed by Steve Carell, is the epitome of the Peter Principle – a classic case of being promoted to one's level of incompetence. In their laid-back banter, the hosts explore Michael's growth throughout the series, delving into how his early antics often bordered on inappropriate and cringe-worthy, making it hard for viewers to root for him right away. Yet, as they dissect his relationships with other characters, notably Jim and Dwight, they illustrate how Michael’s desperate need for friendship and acceptance drives his often misguided attempts at camaraderie. The conversation wanders into the influence of other characters on Michael's development, particularly Todd Packer, whose lack of scruples serves as a double-edged sword for Michael. Packer's toxic masculinity and crude humor highlight Michael's struggles with identity and leadership, as he tries to navigate the thin line between being a friend and a boss.

Blackwell and Walsh also touch upon the cultural impact of "The Office", noting its evolution from a mere sitcom to a cultural phenomenon that resonates with audiences even today. They emphasize how the show reflects the absurdities of office life, encapsulating the humor and heartbreak of striving for human connection in a corporate world. In wrapping up their insightful discussion, the hosts encourage listeners to reflect on their own experiences with office dynamics, all while playfully debating which Dunder Mifflin manager they would prefer to work under. With a mix of nostalgia, humor, and thoughtful analysis, this episode not only celebrates Michael Scott’s character but also prompts deeper questions about mentorship and the complexities of workplace relationships, making it a must-listen for both "The Office" aficionados and new fans alike.

Takeaways:

1. Michael Scott, the quintessential cringe-worthy boss, embodies the Peter Principle as he showcases maximum incompetence while desperately seeking friendship and approval from his employees.
2. The transformation of Michael Scott from an unlikable character to a more relatable figure is a testament to the show's growth and writing, making it a classic in American television.
3. The relationship dynamics between Michael, Jim, and Dwight illustrate how contrasting personalities can influence personal growth and workplace camaraderie in unexpected ways.
4. Despite his many flaws, Michael's character offers a humorous yet tragic exploration of loneliness and the lengths one might go to in order to connect with others.
5. The Office's cultural impact is reminiscent of modern hits like Stranger Things, showing how certain shows can dominate conversations and become ingrained in popular culture.
6. Michael Scott's journey emphasizes the importance of mentorship and the consequences of dysfunctional leadership styles, as he learns how to balance friendship and authority.

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I declare podcasting welcome, systematic ecologists. You're here for another episode of Faces Behind Us. And we are going to be talking about Michael Scott of the Office today.

I am Andy Walsh and I am joined by tj. How you doing, tj?

Great. Thank you for asking.

You're very welcome. And about what have you been geeking out lately?

I don't know how tapped into the. The gaming sphere you are, But Resident Evil 9, Resident Evil Requiem came out yesterday, so that it is. It is phenomenal.

It's the best Resident Evil game, in my opinion, Since Resident Evil 4. Okay. Reasons he bias notwithstanding, of course.

Sure, sure. All right. Awesome. Well, since we're talking sitcoms, I will. I've been excited about the Scrubs revival.

The first two episodes of that landed this week, and they were about what you would expect from returning to the world of Scrubs 20ish years later. That was fun. And a new show, the Fall and Rise of Reggie Dinkins with Tracy Jordan and Daniel Radcliffe, who.

Who would have ever had on their bingo card, Daniel Radcliffe starring in an NBC major network sitcom. But here we are, and it is very good and very entertaining.

That sounds so phenomenal. I. I want to see that. That sounds.

Yeah. So Tracy Jordan is a disgraced former NFL star and Dana Ratcliffe is a.

A somewhat pretentious documentary filmmaker who also has had a change of fortune in his life. And so they are both trying to find some redemption. Hence the fall and rise. Reggie Dinkins being Trace Jordan's character, he's

got the perfect build for disgraced, pretentious documentary maker.

Yes. You kind of just sort of look at him and go, yeah, I get what we're doing here.

I buy it. That makes perfect sense.

Yes. With all respect to Danny Radcliffe, who seems lovely as an actual person.

All right, so that's what we are geeking out on because we are systematic ecologists, after all.

And if you want to hear more of our systematic geeking, and maybe we'll talk about those shows or that game or other things in the future, please remember to rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts or wherever you're watching this so that it gets boost in the algorithm so that you can find those future episodes and other people can find them as well. We also want to thank one of our financial supporters, Amber Riley, for her contributions. Thank you so much.

And if you would like your own shout out, you can become an official member of Systematic Systematic Geekology.

Just find the link in the description or the show notes for wherever you're listening or watching this and there will be a link there and that will have all the details on how you can sign up or you can make a one time contribution or otherwise support us if you're not quite ready to become a regular member. And as I mentioned, this is a Faces Behind Us episode. That's our annual theme for this year and we've got a special shirt for that.

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Be sure to check that out if you want to see all of the other episodes that we've done and keep track of forthcoming ones as well. But remember that one of those episodes a month will only be available to those free or paying members of the podcast.

So if you want to become a member, if you. To make sure that you get all of the episodes. So that's the business of podcasting. Let's get into the business of paper. We're talking the Office.

He makes the pointy haired boss from Dilbert seem competent and friendly and likable. When we first are introduced to him, he just, you know, he seems like the epitome of the Peter Principle.

He has been, he has been promoted to his level of maximum incompetence. And, and that is on full display. Yep.

He grows a lot though.

He sure does.

He grows a lot. And most of the characters do.

Yes. As one might hope for a show that lasted nine seasons, I think.

Yeah, six good ones.

Yeah. By some metrics, possibly coinciding with the departure of Michael Scott vec. But yeah, so he is, he's the manager.

We, you know, the rest of the characters primarily are employees of his in, in their little paper office. Some salespeople, some accounting people, some folks whose job description defies explanation or at least mentioning on the show.

And yeah, you know, it's, it's a sort of slice of life office comedy that I think struck a chord with a lot of people for kind of highlighting just the sort of inanity of office culture. At the time.

And also featured a very popular office romance between Jim and Pam as the receptionist and sales, one of the salespeople who are initially just good friends and then romance blooms, as it often does, and these kinds of things. That's kind of the, you know, the, the setup of the show. What are you, what's your history with the office? Did you watch it as it came out?

I'm gonna guess no.

Yeah, not quite. We didn't have cable, so no. But I would catch it every now and then. It would be on. It wasn't. I wasn't particularly interested in it.

Neither of my parents had office jobs, so, like, they weren't really that interested in it. My mom was a lab tech, my dad does floors. Just not quite for us.

But I was a part of that seemingly massive group of people who really got into the show when it got put on Netflix, because, you know, I'd never seen it well, you know, other than an episode or two here and there. So when it got put on Netflix, I was like, oh, this is my chance. So I watched it once and then I watched it twice in a third time and a fourth time.

Okay, cool. Yeah, so I was around when it, when it first aired. I remember, you know, the promos and so forth.

And, you know, I think my wife and I checked out like maybe the second or third episode we gave a try and just kind of were turned off by the cringiness of the Michael Scott, Steve Carell's character, and the sort of general vibe of the show. That first season, for whatever reason, was only six episodes. It was kind of one of those mid season replacements.

That was a test.

Yeah. And it was.

It was a remake of a British sitcom that had been successful in the UK and that, you know, I think it gotten a sort of a cult following in the US as it started to become possible to. To follow such things across the pond through DVDs and other things.

Yeah. And also I'm glad you mentioned it because that, like, little test, first season, the first season, I wouldn't say is good. The characters are great.

Diversity day. I mean, it's funny, but man, you could not put that on TV today.

It's the only show that I can think of that had a fairly rough first season and then, in my opinion, immediately fixed all of those problems.

Yeah, so that's what I was trying to get to is that, yeah, it had those six episodes that were kind of blueprinted by the British sitcom, including the pilot episode is pretty much a direct remake of the same script. And then it goes away for the summer, as TV shows did back in the day and came back, and yes, it had significantly retooled.

And so word of mouth kind of said, hey, this show is actually pretty good. You should check it out. And so I think we did go back and rewatch those episodes because I think you could go to NBC.com or something like that.

And they were still trying to figure out what to do with the web and. And TV shows. So there were.

This was the era of, like, they'd make little shorts for the web and, you know, a fake Dunder Mifflin website and all those kinds of things. So we checked out those episodes and then started watching, you know, the second season, and then we were hooked.

And so we were watching, you know, as the episodes aired pretty much from that point on, and then, you know, the odd rerun and different things now and again. And then during the pandemic, we were looking for some comfort watches, and so we went back and watched through the entire show, start to finish.

So, you know, I'd say we've probably seen the whole thing twice through and then, you know, some episodes more than that over the years.

Yeah, and some episodes less. I don't know about you, but I always skip at least one episode on a rewatch.

Fair enough.

And if you. If you know the show, then you probably know which one I'm talking about.

And if you don't, I'm going to make you watch it and you'll know when you find it.

There you go. Yeah, so. And a big. A big part of that change between the first and second seasons is the Michael Scott character.

Perhaps least importantly, but very noticeably, Steve Carell, his look changes significantly. Steve Carell, in the interim, became a movie star and got it. Got a glow up, let's say.

Yeah, that's the funniest part. Season two starts and he has a full head of hair all of a sudden. Yeah, that is always so funny to me.

Yeah. And, you know, at the risk of.

At the risk of seeming shallow, you know, I think it does perhaps even change the perception of the character a little bit, or it certainly, I think, helps with the softening of the character and trying to make him a little bit more relatable, because I think that was one of the big realizations is that you just couldn't make a character that unrelentingly unrelatable or unlikable on an American sitcom, you needed everybody to have just a little bit of something that you could connect to. And so season two starts the humanizing of Michael Scott. But let's talk a little bit about Michael Scott as he starts.

How do we think Michael Scott came to be the character who we meet in that first season? Who are some of the folks that we learn are part of his backstory?

Well, as far as in the show, what we know is Ed Truck. We know Ed Truck is very formative for young Michael Scott working at Dunder Mifflin. Outside of the show.

It's based almost entirely on Ricky Gervais, you know, just kind of entire personality, which is a little coarse for American audiences, especially at the time. So that is one of the reasons that it doesn't go over so well. I think Ricky Gervais is really funny most of the time.

He definitely has his less redeemable moments. Throughout the show we learn about a couple of other major influences on, on young Michael Scott, but I think Ed Truck is the earliest.

And then I want to say it's in season one is, I think the first last time he mentions Chris Rock when he copies a Chris Rock bit.

Word for word. Indeed.

Word for word. And I mean that inadvisably. Inadvisably word for word. And pretty much everyone in his office and Wayne Gretzky and Todd Packer.

So all of those are up there actually pretty early, but most of those come throughout the show.

Yeah. So let's unpack a little bit why you bring this up.

So Ricky Gervais played the equivalent character in the British version of the Office and was one of the co creators of the show. Right, one of the writers and. Yeah, so that's where his influence comes from.

Like I said, his script for that pilot episode is used for that first episode of the American Office. Ed Truck is the previous manager at Dunder, at that branch of Dunder Mifflin, the Scranton, Pennsylvania branch of the Dunder Mifflin office.

So he was, you know, he had Michael Scott's job previously and kind of mentored Michael.

But also, you know, I think we learned that a significant part of why Michael is the way that it is as a reaction against the way that Ed Truck managed the Office.

Yeah, you know, he was, he was more of a straight laced manager, you know, the typical kind of I'm, I'm the boss and we're going to keep things professional and so forth. And Michael didn't, didn't care for that way of working and wanted to.

Wanted to create an office where he was everybody's friend and, you know, and family to some degree, as we see forward.

And he tries hard.

Yeah, elaborate on that. What does he try?

What doesn't he try?

Well, that true.

What doesn't he try?

But the first several seasons of the show are absolutely filled with Michael coming up with some new way to either ingratiate the office to him or befriend them in some way. It's a lot. It can be a lot.

Yeah, try hard is definitely a word that comes to mind. But, yeah, there's no joke that he won't tell, no stunt that he won't attempt.

Sometimes it borders on bribery with raises or prizes, or that, you know, he's not above buying people's affection. He's definitely, you know, the poster boy for the mindset that any attention is good attention.

Yep. He'll even overlook, like, severe neglect.

You know, malpractice isn't exactly a word you can use in a paper company, but whatever Kevin was doing, that's malpractice.

It may apply in the case of accountancy.

Yeah. It's fraud, for sure.

Sure.

And the show addresses that, which is pretty funny.

Yeah. And so. And, you know, and as the show goes on, we kind of see that.

We see some glimpses into his childhood that suggest that, you know, he was pretty. Pretty lonely as a child. I'm not sure that we learned much about his parents.

Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't think we really much learn much about his home life other than we see that we see he makes an appearance as a child on a. On a local, like, public television children's program.

To me, the obvious connection was Romper Room starring Miss Molly was a New Jersey, New York area children's program. But I imagine there were comparable programs in many TV markets around the country in the 70s.

I guess would it would have been, you know, the time frame when he would have been that age. Maybe early 80s. Yeah, early 80s is when I was watching Romper Room. Yeah. So the show where different kids appear every week as.

As guests, as part of the audience and get to interact with a host who is, you know, a young woman who, you know, has a.

As a motherly or nurturing kind of vibe for, you know, some puppet shows and, you know, kind of a Mr. Rogers thing might be the, you know, but with a. With a live audience kind of vibe.

And he makes an appearance on the show and, you know, just talks about how he wants everybody to Be his friend and he hopes, you know, he imagines having many, many friends growing up, but you know, seemingly stemming from a significant loneliness in his life at that time.

And yeah, so I think that's part of the explanation that we're meant to understand is that he's just desperate for friendship but doesn't know how, maybe doesn't know how to make connections. And so we just will try anything and everything.

His character really is tragic. Like when you just think about who he is and who he wants to be, he really is a tragic character. You just kind of feel bad for him.

You just ends up borderline manipulating the, the all of his subordinates into. Into being his friend.

Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, that's the.

I think one of the most awkward things about the show early on and why it was I think difficult to get into getting out of the gate. There was just, yeah, that sense of this. This is completely inappropriate. It's an abuse of power and for, for the, the thinnest of benefits. Right.

It would seem that, you know, he's getting the most meager amount of friendship out of this desperate, desperate behavior. You know, and the part that, that I find that the most difficult to. To kind of reconcile with that, you know, this kid who just.

Who wants to be everybody's friend and seems very sweet or the guy who visits a classroom of students and tells them that he expects to be able to pay their college tuition when they graduate high school. He seems like a very. In those moments, he seems somewhat empathetic and a bit too naive and innocent to be the sort of again, misogynistic racist.

No joke. There's no line for. To cross for his jokes all you know, he will find every line and transgress it. And it's hard to reconcile those two things.

What are your thoughts about how besides just they had to reconcile the different inconsistencies in the writing but in the universe of the show, how do you understand those. All those aspects of Michael Scott?

Yeah, well, I think they justify it because even in the beginning it's implied that he is a good salesman. As it goes on, he gets to showcase a few times that he really is just a crack job salesman.

Like he is one of the best at sales and he just can't sell himself, which sucks. But it does play it very earnest. He is super desperate. He wants to be like everyone else. He wants everyone else to like him.

It just kind of really sucks to watch from a sympathetic point of view at least. But he does prove that he at least somewhat earned his position as a manager, you know, through. Through sales excellence.

And then somewhere along the way, he realized that he could abuse his station to have friends.

Yeah. I wonder also, you know, we see. So one of the characters you showed there was Todd Packer. Right. Who is also, you know, if.

If anything, an even less scrupulous teller of jokes and. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't think we can say anything that Todd said on the show.

Yeah, we will not be repeating any of his lines, but. Yeah, just a difficult person to find redeeming qualities to. As portrayed.

And I wonder, in trying to kind of meld all these different ingredients of Michael Scott, I was wondering how much is Todd Packer's influence there? They were working together. They were salespeople together. And perhaps, you know, given their.

Given their personalities, were they both kind of outsiders? Michael Scott, because he just seemed awkward and. And lacking confidence and just so desperate for friendship that.

That, you know, would turn people off. And Todd Becker just being this, you know, reprehensible character if.

If they wound up kind of falling in with each other just, you know, because they were both, you know, loners or outsiders. And if Michael Scott kind of picked up bad habits from Todd Packer just by wanting to be his friend or wanting to plea to make him happy or whatever.

And Todd Packer had no filter, no reason not to encourage that sort of thing.

Yeah. And Todd is the kind of guy who absolutely would have had no problem taking full advantage of Michael Scott.

Just the desperate young guy who needs friends. They were like, sales partners. So Todd had all the time in the world to just shape him.

I don't think he would have had any problem being like, yeah, I'll let this kid follow me around and worship me while I be a generally reprehensible person.

Right. Yeah.

But I do think a lot of that he gets off of. He gets off. The Todd Packer mentality eventually just takes a long time.

It does. I. Do you think there are specific people that maybe help him in that direction?

I do. It's Jim and Dwight probably the best influences for Michael Scott. And it's weird, a lot of these episodes, the faces behind us, it's.

It's not a character that we see this much actual growth in. It's like, in my opinion, it is the biggest strength of the Office is how much the characters change.

Because not only in the show do they change a ridiculous amount, but also in real life. Almost every actor on the show got absurdly popular, especially Steve Carell, because of the 40 year old virgin.

And then whatever else I remember what else he did something I think Despicable

Me comes along at some point in the run of the.

Oh my gosh, movie's so much older than I think you're right. It's like 29 or something. Something like that. It's a good movie. But Jim and Dwight help him just become a real person.

You know, they have their own flaws for sure, but they're, they're both very real people. Well, Jim's a very real person. I don't think most people know someone like Dwight. I'm not saying he doesn't exist.

I just think most people don't know someone like Dwight. But you can see it as, you know, they spend more time and with Michael Scott that they go closer together. Michael grows more like each of them.

And that kind of plays off of how good he is at sales because neither of them really ever take him seriously until they get to see him run a sale. Like, oh, he's incredible. And of course, over time they just kind of become endeared to this generally pathetic man who just really needs a friend.

So I think they help him a lot.

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think, I think Dwight's maybe a little bit more complicated because, you know, Dwight is himself desperate for advancement in the company.

And so he's one of those people that sees, well, you know, I need to curry the favor of the, of the person above me to, to be promoted and to be advanced.

And so in that regard, maybe he enables some of Michael Scott's worst impulses at times because he doesn't want to, to contradict the boss or, or anything like that. But yeah, at the same time, I think you're right that there are some positive influences there as well. And I think they both need some leadership.

They need some management, they need to be managed and he is their manager. And yet he doesn't seem to know the first thing about how to do that.

And his whole management style seems to be defined largely by, well, I'm just going to do something I don't want to do what, what Ed Truck did.

And the fact that they need some, some structure, some management and so forth at different times, I think maybe puts him in a position where he has to figure out, oh, I need, I need something a little bit more substantive than just, I don't want to be like a Truck or I just want to be everybody's friend. I need to actually figure out how to, how to be a boss.

He also, he gets A lot out of like Dwight becoming a much more well adjusted and normal person. I think seeing that slowly happen allows Michael to do the same.

Right.

Because they have a fun little triangle. You know, Jim and Dwight kind of hate each other and Jim kind of hates Michael. Michael absolutely idolizes Jim and kind of hates Dwight.

Dwight's pretty much the only person who. He doesn't want to be his friend, which is interesting because he's so desperate.

He just doesn't want that friend because he can tell most people don't like Dwight and Jim is just a cool, hot guy.

Yeah. There's also the element of, you know, we maybe come to appreciate some of Michael Scott's quirks as Jim and Dwight come to appreciate them.

You know, there's the episode where Jim has to, to manage for a day and, and realize that he finds himself falling into some of the same patterns that Michael Scott does in terms of trying to, to coax people into doing different things with different carrots, so to speak.

And yeah, just, you know, and you can, you can see him realizing, oh, maybe there is a reason why, why Michael does things the way that he does sometimes, and maybe there is some benefit to it or there is a value to doing things the way that he does them and that allows us to maybe see that there was something worthwhile there. Or it's a clever retcon, actually. There was a reason why he did these things when really it was just nonsense at the time.

Yeah, it's good writing, if you ask me. Sure.

You know. Right. You got to work with the constraints that you set up and figure out how to.

Yeah, I don't think they really expected it to become like the biggest show on television.

Yeah, I don't, I don't know quite how to, how to get across in, in today's terms just how big the cultural impact of the Office was. You know, we just don't have network television that everybody watches anymore the way that, that we did.

You know, I wouldn't, I don't know that I can say this is the last such show, but certainly it is one of, you know, the Office and Lost were kind of the. And maybe something like Modern Family. I don't know.

You know, there's maybe a couple other examples, but yeah, that's sort of some of the last hurrahs of the, the monoculture of, of network television.

Yeah. I think the, the closest thing to explain to like a younger person listening to this is it. It was like Stranger Things.

Everyone talked about the Office. Everyone had seen the Office it was. It was just constant for years. Years.

Yeah. And then it, you know, it. It got that boost as sort of being one of the big first, big streaming, you know, killer apps, you know, not. Not.

Not the first one necessarily, but it was definitely one of those properties that, you know, everybody's kind of waiting where, you know, where is it going to wind up on streaming to check it out again or check it out for the first time?

Okay.

And I feel like half of my class had Dunder Mifflin stickers on their laptops.

Wow.

It was crazy.

Yeah. That is. That is remarkable, you know, for a group of.

Group of people that had no experience working in offices or very minimal experience working in offices.

It's just funny. It's well written.

Yeah.

Well, it's sharp. It can be very sharp. Can be very silly.

Yes. So this is my first Faces behind this episode. You mentioned that you've been on several of these.

All of them so far.

Okay.

Every one of them.

So we're moved to talk a little bit about, I guess, how we identify good mentors and bad mentors. Good influences and bad influences. You know, there's a part that wants to say, just avoid anybody who reminds you of anyone from the office. Right.

But that's perhaps not quite so constructive.

Mostly. I don't know. It is kind of one of those shows where everyone is kind of a little bit problematic.

I mean, Jim, I think most people would consider to be the most normal character on the show. And he's still like a borderline sociopath.

Yeah. The pranks against White come early and often in the sorcery seasons.

And really, with on the rewatch, I found myself going, wait, what did Dwight do to deserve this? How did Dwight learn this?

The best explanation I've come up with is that I think the early, you know, the time period when the show premiered, we were kind of at a peak of sort of cool detachment and cynicism and the earnestness that Dwight displays for wanting to do a good job and wanting to be promoted and just generally being earnest and enthusiastic about all these different things. That was. That was about one of the worst crimes that you could commit. Right. The.

Everybody wanted to be the cool, detached Jim who didn't care about anything and was, you know, approached everything With. With a hint of irony or. Or heavy dose of irony.

And.

Yeah, so I think. I think we were. I think it just kind of was obvious at the time. Well, Dwight.

Dwight's crime is he cares too much, and he needs to be taken down a peg to kind of loosen him up.

And I think in more contemporary moments where I think we've swung a little bit more towards actually earnestness and caring about things and being sincere, have their place and have their merits, I think from that perspective, it's harder to approach the office and understand why Dwight is treated the way that he is and why that isn't anything other than just bullying.

Yeah. Some of those pranks are, like, generational, though, so those pranks are so good. Where he wraps his desk.

He turns his desk into just, like, wrapping paper. Like, there's not even cardboard boxes in them. It seems right.

He does it right. He makes it look like he has wrapped up the desk in wrapping paper. But in fact, he's. It's. It's a. It's a faux desk. It's just a desk shape.

Just the paper. It's so funny.

No, they're absolutely very clever. Just, again, terrible things to actually do to an actual human being.

Absurd. He replaces himself with one of his actor friends. That's a level of gaslighting that I don't think any character in anything has ever tried to reach.

Yes. And I love that Randall park still gets mileage out of that. You know, you still see the memes of, this is John Krasinski. What are you talking about?

It's pretty funny.

Yeah.

And then Dwight's like, okay, kiss Pam. He just does it.

Mm.

That's. That's hilarious.

Oh, yes. Solid comedy. Terrible humaning, horrible person.

So, yeah, generally, I would say avoid the people in your life if they remind you of someone from the office, especially the really problematic ones. Ryan Howard. Stay away from that person. Stay really far away from that person.

I don't remember Mindy Kaling's character's name, because by the time I started watching Kelly. Kelly Kapoor, by the time I started watching, she was already Mindy Kaling to me. I don't know what from. Maybe it was the Mindy Project. Maybe it was.

But anyway, most of the people in the office suck. Stanley's a good role model. Show up to work, do your job, sleep a little. Yeah, you deserve it.

You deserve to take a nap at work every once in a while.

Sure. Oscar also seems like a pretty good. You know, he's. He's serious about his accounting he takes his. His work seriously.

Yeah. He probably has the hardest job in the office. Yes. Working next to Kevin, who made up a number to balance his books.

Gotta be the hardest thing you can do as an accountant.

Yes. You know, and still maintains, you know, is still sociable enough that he isn't the pariah that Dwight is. So. Yeah, maybe. Maybe be Oscar.

If you feel like you have to be someone from the office, aim for the Oscar Stanley coordinates.

Yeah, there's a coincision there.

I mean, you can mix of those two, but as far as people who actually inspire Michael Scott, I think the only one that I could earnestly say that you should try to emulate is Wayne Gretzky. Of course, my favorite Michael Scott quote is that you miss 100% of the shots that you don't take. Wayne Gretzky, Michael Scott.

That's pretty much all they say about. About him in the show. But I really wanted to make this collage.

I'm not gonna go super in depth on how dominant Wayne Gretzky was for his entire career, but I could.

Yeah, he is. He was a phenomenal talent in the sport.

It boggles my mind every time I think about the fact that he would be the leading point scorer in hockey just based on his assists.

Yep.

And yet he was also the. The leading goal scorer for. For many years. Right up until

last year.

Yeah.

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

Yes. Perhaps recently, you know, some.

Some things have also come up that maybe he's not entirely somebody want to emulate also, but certainly as a hockey player, if you could be like Wayne Gretzky. Be like Wayne Gretzky.

Yeah, if you. You know, if you can.

Right, right. Sure.

Just, you know, I recommend being the best at the world in whatever you try to do, if at all possible.

Right. You know, if somebody gives you that option.

Yeah, you take that option.

All right, so then we will wrap up our conversation here.

There's certainly, obviously, a lot more that could be said about the Office, a show again, that ran for six to nine seasons, depending on how one chooses to. To retcon reality.

Or five, if you just want to count. Two, three, four, five.

Yeah, you could. You could give the first one. I missed two. Fair. Yeah. So we're gonna. We're gonna wrap up here.

Yeah, I do know. I think what our extra question should be. Unless. Okay, you do have one.

I had one, but I. I would love to hear yours, because I'm not.

Bonus.

A bonus.

Get a bonus. If you had to work from one of the Scranton Dunder Mifflin managers Which one would you choose?

Oh, that's. Yeah, that's a better question than mine. So let's go with that one. Which. Which of the actual Dunder Mifflin managers is the least objectionable?

Yeah.

All right, so stay. Stay tuned or become a member rather to be able to hear our answers to the bonus question.

In the meantime, go ahead and rate through and review the show wherever you're getting your podcasts so that you will see more of our future episodes and other folks will be able to tune into fantastic episodes like this. Thank you again to Amber Riley for your financial support.

Feel free to check out the link in the show description or the show notes to find out how you can become a financial supporter like Amber.

Get your own shout out, be able to buy the merch, be able to get the bonus questions, be able to get the bonus episodes in this Spaces Behind Us series, which you can see all those in the playlist next up, I believe, unless the things come out in a slightly different order, but according to the schedule, the next episode that will be out will be on Paragon and bit down or something along those lines with Christian, TJ and John are the scheduled folks. We'll see who actually is able to show up. These things are always a little bit.

It was all three of us.

Oh, it was. Oh, that's right. You've already recorded them. So excellent. So we know. In fact. Yeah, we're ahead. Timey wimey. Yeah. So look for.

Look for that episode that will be one of those fourth wall exclusives.

So become a free member or a paid member so that you can hear what those folks already had to say and will have said in the future about that series of books. Right? Yes. Series of books.

Yes.

Yeah. So thanks for joining us and tune in to future Faces Behind Us episodes. And remember that if you're going to geek, do it systematically. Sa.