The latest installment in the Halloween Drive-In series takes a deep dive into the colossal clash between two beloved titans: Godzilla and King Kong. Christian Ashley and TJ Blackwell kick things off by reminiscing about the rich history of monster mashups in cinema, setting the stage for their review of the 2021 blockbuster, 'Godzilla Vs Kong'. With a dynamic interplay of wit and humor, they dissect the film's premise, which sees these iconic creatures pitted against each other in spectacular battles that stir excitement and nostalgia alike. The duo emphasizes the film's popcorn movie essence—encouraging viewers to turn off their brains and simply enjoy the visual spectacle of oversized creatures wreaking havoc. They don’t shy away from discussing the underlying themes of polarization, cleverly connecting the monster fights to the broader societal divides of 2025, making for an engaging commentary that resonates with current audiences.

Ashley and Blackwell explore the character dynamics between Godzilla and Kong, highlighting their unique attributes and motivations. Godzilla, the reigning king, embodies raw power and destructive capability, while Kong represents the more relatable struggle of survival and identity. Their banter reflects a playful rivalry, as they each advocate for their chosen titan while acknowledging the merits of the other. The conversation flows seamlessly from the epic battles on aircraft carriers to the intricacies of the Hollow Earth concept, with Ashley providing a brief yet insightful synopsis of the film's plot. They delve into the film's critiques, including the often mediocre human subplots that serve as mere interludes between action sequences. Yet, despite these flaws, they both agree that the film succeeds in delivering thrilling monster action—a quality that ultimately defines it as a quintessential popcorn flick.

As the episode reaches its climax, the hosts engage in a spirited debate about the film's implications regarding technology and nature, touching upon the themes of environmental stewardship and the consequences of hubris in the face of nature’s might. They ponder whether the film serves as an allegory for modern technological dilemmas, all while maintaining a light-hearted approach that invites listeners to reflect without getting bogged down in heavy analysis. Concluding with a mix of ratings and personal anecdotes, the episode captures the essence of what makes 'Godzilla Vs Kong' a fun, if not entirely profound, cinematic experience—one that not only entertains but also sparks conversations about the deeper meanings behind these epic confrontations in the world of Kaiju cinema.

Takeaways:

• Christian and TJ totally vibe on how "Godzilla Vs. Kong" is just pure, unadulterated fun, a perfect flick to zone out and enjoy the chaos without overthinking it.
• They dish out some deep thoughts on the film's characters, highlighting how both King Kong and Godzilla have layers, even without a ton of dialogue – a rare feat in monster mayhem movies.
• Amidst all the epic battles, the boys chat about the film's nod to environmental themes, suggesting that the monsters symbolize nature's power and balance, which is pretty profound for a popcorn flick.
• The hosts crack jokes about how the movie's human plot is as thin as a paper plate, but they still appreciate the nostalgia and references to the classic monster mashups of the past.
• They weigh in on the age-old debate of Team Godzilla vs. Team Kong, with TJ leaning towards Godzilla for the nostalgia, while Christian feels a soft spot for Kong's humanity.
• In a lighthearted roast, they agree that while the visuals are mind-blowing, the plot could use a little more meat on its bones, making it a classic case of style over substance.

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Check out all of this year's Monster Mash Drive-In series:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/ad0d15c1-0abc-490d-b33a-7330a301fbe0

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Don't miss any of Christian's episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/ebf4b064-0672-47dd-b5a3-0fff5f11b54c

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Check out all of our episodes with TJ:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/f4c32709-d8ff-4cef-8dfd-5775275c3c5e

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Foreign.

In the battle of the Kaiju titans.

We're going to be asking this question a lot more in today's episode of Systematic Ecology.

We are the Priests of the Geeks.

I'm your host, Christian Ashley, as we continue on through our Halloween Drive in series, going through versus movies and crossovers and everything.

Today we are covering Godzilla versus Kong, a very fun film that has a lot of history behind it.

But of course, it's not just me with you today.

I am talking, of course, about the ultimate Kaichu.

Not only the creator of Kaiju, but the greatest Kaiju himself, TJ Blackwell.

How's it going, tj?

It's going great.

Thank you so much.

Oh, perfect.

Yeah.

TJ's getting a lot of titles over the years.

All.

All earned.

But it's always nice to add another one to the list.

So, tj, we just left the drive in, saw this for the first time.

What's your first reaction?

Like, the first thing you'd say after seeing this movie.

That was awesome.

That was awesome.

Yeah.

I'm not too far behind you.

I probably would have said something like the equivalent of, this is good big, dumb fun, and I'm here for every minute of it.

Yep, yep.

That's perfect.

Perfect synopsis.

Brain off.

Eyes open.

Yeah.

Ears open.

Consume product.

You're fine.

Consume product.

That's the mode you need to be in when you watch this movie.

That's not to say there's just nothing deeper in this film at all.

But at the end of the day, it's a popcorn movie.

It's the definition of it.

Like, you want a giant lizard hitting a giant ape in the face, like, multiple times and back and forth.

That's what you get on aircraft carriers that should buckle under their weight and fall into the sea.

But who cares, because you're watching them kill each other in the middle of the ocean.

It's fine.

Yeah.

So why don't you go ahead?

Did you give a little brief synopsis of the film and we'll get into the questions.

So I do get the order of events of this movie mixed up because of Godzilla x Kong, the New Empire.

So if I get out of order, please correct me, but this one starts kind of working.

The monsters left off with Ghidorah defeated.

And do we open on Kong or Godzilla?

I think we open up on Kong on Skull Island.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the human characters are already involved because this is, you know, Kong and Zilla.

64.

Which is where before.

Thereabouts.

Yeah.

Which is where Japan started, really.

The whole like human subplot that people kind of hate thing.

Which I appreciate Legendary for doing that.

I'm not sure if Legendary knows why they're doing that.

Because by the time that King Kong versus Godzilla had come out.

It's the third Godzilla movie.

I want to say third.

It's.

It's early rates again.

I'll look it up.

But by the point that it comes around, they.

Yeah, yeah, they.

They have already pivoted from human characters that represent the real world.

And like specifically Japan, to all of our human characters are going to be parodies of Japanese television.

That's what we're doing.

So people stay interested the whole time and we can spend less money on monster stuff.

So if you're wondering why the human story is often bad, that's why.

Because you're not Japanese and you don't understand the parody.

And the studios that make these movies also do not understand the point.

So they're not parodies of American tv.

Wouldn't that be so much funnier, Maya?

So anyway, the actual movie, we get some.

Some plot stuff that I'm not super interested in because of the nature of the film.

I want to see King Kong fight Godzilla.

If you weren't there, it was a cultural moment.

Everyone was hosting polls.

There were tip jars with King Kong versus Godzilla.

Like separately.

Whole big thing.

Super fun.

Time to be alive.

The power scaling, the theory crafting leading up to this movie was awesome.

I'm lost again.

So they're taking Kong away from Skull island and that's what triggers Godzilla because he's got to prove that he's the alpha, he's the number one.

But then he goes and attacks King Kong as he's being delivered.

And that's when he initially beats him.

And that's when they found.

In the last film, they found out that there's a hollow earth, which we'll get to in a bit.

And so they're kind of trying to take Kong there.

I don't remember the reason.

I'm sure there's a legitimate one.

Maybe.

Yeah.

So what.

What it was was they found some art that implied that there were more giant.

That's right.

And they wanted to reconnect Kong to his.

That's family.

They thought because there are some things that we've gotten around.

The Godzilla has been attacking cities after like being kind of like this equalizer force that like is not like an ally of humanity.

But, like, it's kind of looking out for him to an extent, but it's suddenly out of nowhere, he keeps attacking these cities.

And the common thread is that there's this one organization owned, I think it's called apex, because we got Monarch, which are the good guys, and Apex, which is, like, controlled by the son of Ren Serizawa, who was the guy who really had a fascination with Godzilla, wanted to help keep him alive.

In the last film, he sacrificed himself to bring Godzilla back to his full power with the nuclear explosion, if I'm remembering correctly.

And so they find after Kong has spent some time in the Hollow Earth, gained, like, his axe, that has kind of one of the dorsal fins of a dead Godzilla, we find that they were back in the day, tribes of both on Hollow Earth and above.

And eventually they got not really wiped out, but it got to the point where numbers are so very low.

And we'll find a sequel to there way more.

But it was implied at this point that they were all wiped out and Kong was the last one.

Yes.

So then we find that the guy, the minutes of our son, who has a name, I'm sure, has worked his organization to take the head of Ghidorah and then put it in a Mechagodzilla to use it as a way to power it up, use the cybernetics there for AI stuff, to create someone who can oppose Godzilla because he's part of a group that has gotten angry with the fact that Godzilla is number one.

Humans aren't number one in the food chain anymore.

So Godzilla and Kong fight again in Hong Kong, and somehow he's declared the victor.

Kong is.

It's really kind of a weak justification.

And then, you know, you have to have the moment where, oh, no, Batman and Superman are fighting.

Oh, but Doomsday's here now.

And Mechagodzilla comes out, fights against the three, the two of them.

And eventually, working together, they managed to take down Mechagodzilla and depart kind of almost as equals.

And Kong is going to rule the Hollow Earth.

Godzilla is going to rule the top Earth, as it were.

Earth.

Earth.

So to get it in order and sensible humans.

The little girl's name is Gia.

Remember that?

Yes.

She, you know, want Kong to leave the island, which is the only land that Godzilla was comfortable with him having.

So Godzilla's like, hey, man, I'm gonna have to kill you now.

Sorry.

So they fight a bunch of times.

On the way to Hong Kong, they have their ultimate fight, which is after Kong gets Geared up with the.

The dorsal plate axe, which is awesome.

Super cool.

I'm still pretty sure Godzilla even won that part.

I really don't think Kong convincingly wins a single time in this movie until they band together to fight Mechagodzilla, who was possessed by the spirit of Ghidorah.

That's just like, a fun little thing they threw in there.

They're like, oh, they're monsters.

They can do whatever.

Yes, we have his head.

That means we have a spirit.

Interesting implication.

Interesting theological applications.

That's exactly what they're thinking of when they're making this movie.

Right, Right.

Which is why I brought it up.

It's super important.

Yeah, it is what it is.

Like, I'm not expecting, you know, Citizen Kane, what have you.

But you know what?

Godzilla can go on that side of things.

You know, as most recently we've seen in Minus one do a great job with portraying the horrors of war.

And what does it mean to survive after something like that?

And there's also this giant lizard that's trying to nuke everyone.

It's really good when they can do it that way.

But you know what?

This is just as valid as any other interpretation.

You can have a popcorn movie, you have a thinker movie.

Both are good because Godzilla is multifaceted that way.

And some Godzilla movies are both.

Yes.

Not this one.

So I think we've probably given away our answer to this question.

But, tj, whose side are you on?

You on Kong or Zilla's side?

Godzilla.

Yeah.

Like, it really is a hard question for me because I'm a monkey, sorta pretty much there, you know, whether you believe in evolution or not, I look a lot more like a monkey than I do a lizard.

So I.

Intrinsically, I want to cheer for Kong as this, like, extrapolation of the human spirit.

But a giant lizard that breathes fire is so cool.

So of course I. I want him to win.

I.

Obviously, I've seen way more Godzilla movies because there are just so many more.

I like them better generally.

I do think King Kong has a way better game.

I want to say Peter Jackson's King Kong, the Movie.

The Game On.

Thank you.

Six sounds right, because somewhere maybe came out.

I don't know.

It's not a history lesson.

I think that game is awesome.

Super cool.

I think it's better than Peter Jackson's King Kong, which is not a bad movie.

But I think that Grim rocks.

Yeah.

I've never played the game, but I've definitely heard that from other people say it's superior to film because I think they include, like, doing, like, the deleted scenes that they did or something like that to make for levels.

Yeah.

But it should be fairly obvious.

I'm on Godzilla's side.

He's my boy.

I have known him since I was a little kid.

One of my favorite Christmases ever, I'm pretty sure I've talked about it before, was when I got huge Godzilla figurine.

And there was another Christmas when I got other little minifigures of him and the other Kaiju.

It was like, I'm a Godzilla kid through and through not to say that I dislike Kong.

Like, given the choice, I know who.

Whose side I'm picking.

And there is also an interesting facet to the debate wherein kind of reigniting the original issue that plagued this movie, which was rights to release, rights to produce.

The studio had no right to King Kong when they made this movie.

Started a huge, huge thing.

But I heard a few people who would, like, become, like, xenophobic about, like, you're, you know, you're supporting Japan.

Like.

No, I'm supporting an awesome giant lizard.

Yeah, Yeah.

I don't.

Not choosing a country here.

I'm choosing big lizard or big monkey.

And big monkey don't breathe nuclear breath.

You can just absorb it with his ax now.

Because we can make his things do whatever they want.

Look, just.

Just so we're.

I. I do agree with that line of logic.

The.

The dorsal plates very famously can hold the atomic charge.

I think that's fine and awesome and integral to them defeating the admittedly underwhelming Mechagodzilla.

Yes.

And this is a debate that's gone ever since, like, even before King Kong versus Godzilla came out in the 60s.

You obviously have Kong made in the 30s and Godzilla in the early 50s.

And what do fans do?

They like comparing and contrasting and saying who would win.

And, you know, when Toho did the film.

There's been legends to this day that in the Japanese cut, Godzilla wins and in the American cut, Kong wins.

When in actuality, in both cuts, it's Kong that wins.

At the end of the day, it doesn't make much sense.

But you know what?

It's what they decided to do.

I think they were showing more respect.

One of the films that did influence Godzilla, that and like, beast from 20,000 fathoms and other things like that.

So have your pet in this film, and you can love them.

I love both, but I love one more than the other.

You know, it's fine they're not my children.

Godzilla is my child.

And I will kill you if you come up to me and say, King Kong is better.

All right, so, D.J.

do you have, like, anything that you particularly love about the film and something that you don't or.

Go ahead.

So I actually do really love the characterization that we get for both Godzilla and King Kong.

They give them both a lot of character through, obviously no dialogue.

And there is.

Godzilla does have a little bit of implied dialogue because he can respond to Gia's sign language, sorta, which is interesting.

Weird call to, like, Coco the gorilla, but, you know, gorillas can learn language, at least if you believe in Coco the gorilla.

Yes.

Not getting into that conspiracy.

It's not what we're doing.

But I really enjoyed that.

And I enjoyed the setup work that they did to set up Hollow Earth.

And then aesthetically, a lot of the choices they made were really awesome.

That kind of like the big, exciting set pieces for this beautiful Godzilla fighting King Kong on aircraft carrier.

That rocks so hard.

That's so cool.

Yes.

The dorsal plate axe.

That's awesome.

Like, yeah, they did scale him up massively for this movie.

Prior to this, King Kong was like 190ft tall, I think.

And this was like the biggest Godzilla we've ever had at like 800ft or something.

Outside of, like, the space anime.

Godzilla Earth.

Godzilla Earth is awesome.

That's another big reason that I was on Godzilla side because I was like, comfortably in the Godzilla Earth fan base when this came out.

Yeah.

They do have a line in Skull island where, like, you know, he's still growing, you know, talking about Kong.

So obviously that was made knowing he was.

There was a planned film for them to fight each other.

I get it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is a universe with a square cube.

Law doesn't exist unless they say it does.

It's fine.

Just.

Just accept what's happening on the film.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm like.

I'm not nitpicking.

I'm just.

Yeah.

I'm just saying the monkey didn't deserve to win.

Oh, yeah, me.

I mean, I'll parrot some what you said.

Like, the way they characterize the two of them is pretty great.

Godzilla being like, look, I'm in charge, you little upstart.

You may not look like you're trying to challenge my authority, but you don't recognize the fact that by acting like you do, you are challenging my authority.

So let me remind you who's top dog here to put you in your place.

And.

But Kong is like, I don't want this.

I just wanted to live on my island.

Now I got.

I have to be moved from my island.

Now they're bringing me to this Hollow Earth place.

Like, what's going on?

And now this giant lizard's angry at me.

I didn't ask for any of this.

And the fun little interplay between them is great.

Trying to think things.

I don't like that one line in the second fight that I have is like, oh, yeah, Kong won.

What do you mean?

There's both still active.

How do you get round two decided for Kong?

I think just wanted to say that so that Kong could get a win in the film.

I wish they would have done that a little better if they really wanted him to get the win, but that's beside the point.

Mechagodzilla is awesome looking, but also kind of weak.

Like you said, it's not the strongest version.

He could be there.

There could have been plenty of opportunities.

I'm making the original films where Mechagodzilla shows up where like he's fighting Anguirus and you think, oh, no, why is Godzilla doing that to his buddy?

And turns out, no, that's not his buddy.

That's a literal Mechagodzilla who's wearing the skin of a Godzilla for a moment, as it were.

But you know what?

Maybe they didn't want to do the same thing over again.

I can respect that to an extent.

Yeah, yeah.

I.

It's.

I feel like if it had looked less like Godzilla, I would have been into it more just because, okay, the original Mechagodzilla looked like, you know, a modern day humans attempt at a robot Godzilla.

Yeah.

And we could feasibly just do that now.

But actually doing it, I don't know if it works.

I don't know if it works.

I think if we just had like big, boxy, you know, like some lines, Godzilla, I think I would have thought it was a lot.

Not as cool, but definitely I would have been more into.

So here's another hot button issue.

Does this.

Since we're in Halloween, you know, October, spooky month, does this qualify to you as a horror movie?

Because some people will put it on the list, others won't.

Where do you stand, tj?

Comfortably?

Absolutely not.

No, I'm also there.

But let's hear what you have to say.

There has not been a Godzilla horror movie.

Well, actually, that's wrong.

There are, in my opinion, three, you could argue, a few of the Heisei Godzillas.

In my opinion, there's only three that really count as.

Or the first one, Shin Godzilla.

Very comfortable.

And Godzilla minus one.

Like I could.

I could understand.

Yeah, I threw Destroyer in there.

Yeah.

It traumatized me as a child.

Yeah.

Destroy is definitely much scarier than most.

Most of the, like 70s to 80s stuff.

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you completely.

It's.

There are horror elements in a lot of other Godzilla films that aren't the ones that we listed.

But, like, it's not like the primary focus.

They're more like Kaiju sci fi action.

I mean, others are horrible and terrible for other reasons.

I mean, Godzilla's revenge exists, but it's not a horror movie just because it makes me feel horrible.

Yeah.

I would also not throw this one in that.

That ring because.

Yeah.

Well, there are scary moments, especially for a younger audience.

Like, that is a.

Scary moments.

Does a horror film make.

Yeah, I think I could understand it.

If you were watching it, like on release and were really emotionally attached to seeing the monkey win, I could understand how parts of this would scare you.

Yeah.

All right.

So one of the things that this does kind of have a say in is something that's been built off of other films is the Kaiju's kind of representing the natural order, nature of, you know, balance and making sure that pollution doesn't, you know, get too out awry or other creatures that are harmful don't spread.

And so that's why certain Kaiju will kill them so that they don't cause problems.

So you need a figure like Godzilla in charge to make sure everything's running smoothly versus, like, humans, naturally, it is part of a fallen creation.

You know, we, as we attempt to conquer nature accidentally or sometimes purposely end up causing harm to nature through the use of technology.

It's like, what do you think about what it's saying there?

Anything you want to add?

So I think I would have thought ideologically that America, this one being completely produced in America because it is legendary and it is the fourth one.

I.

Would have thought that they would have committed to making King Kong the villain, the true villain.

Not the villain, the hero.

I would have seen him as the villain because America would have wanted him to comfortably win because it would be allegorical for taking down nuclear energy, which America hates because money.

Yes.

Not to get political, but if the same country that, you know, launched itself off of the Three Mile island incident to, you know, quash the nuclear energy rise of nuclear power, as it were, made this.

It would have, you know, King Kong would have killed Godzilla.

Probably pretty.

Pretty solid and aggressive and awesomely in their defense.

So it wasn't really where I thought it would go.

Big picture, right?

Big picture.

I was like, you know, nuclear tension.

But that's my fault for thinking about the original Godzilla and that that's still representative here in the slightest.

I think it's.

It's pretty clear.

Technology has its aids, technology has its uses, but it can also be a great evil thing, which is why it is perfectly appropriate for our time, both in the sense that nuclear energy is perfectly fine, perfectly safe.

It's use case.

Especially like, I live in South Carolina.

And if you didn't know, now you do.

South Carolina produces the most nuclear energy per capita in the United States.

Very interesting, right?

No one.

Yeah, no one expects that.

But that's because we have three plants, like, in the upstate, like, very close to me.

So if.

If they melt down, I'm in trouble.

But I live also, Norman.

So the same for me.

Yeah.

So it is also applicable to our times today with the rise of AI and what that's doing to our planet.

You know, a certain feisty Japanese studio back in the day at this point would have probably made a new Kaiju to represent that by now.

So it's definitely.

It does a better job than I think some people would say to me, at least.

Yeah, it's definitely not like a main focus of the film.

I mean, there are attempts made to be, you know, a little higher brow, as it were, by bringing up concepts like this.

And I think for what they're doing, it's fine.

They're not getting preachy about it.

They're not flinging it in your face, or they're not handling it very poorly, but also not really making it very.

As nuanced as they could have.

You know, that's fine.

And like, you bring up.

Yeah, of course, we got the whole thing with Mechagodzilla AI Know, having a mind of its own, or the devastation that can come from the resources devoted to, like, empowering AI that are kind of brought up here with Godzilla.

And how, as the thing that technology almost always does is it gets out of the hands of the original creator, from the intent to where it ends up at.

I mean, not very subtle, but it's fine.

And then, of course, the whole, you know, Godzilla being nature kind of personified to an extent of looking over things, keeping things in a balance, that helps out for the most part, everyone involved to make sure that something doesn't go out of whack.

Yeah, sure could really help to have someone like that around watching our back if that were the case.

But you know what?

It's also sci fi fantasy to an extent in that regard is what it is.

Yeah.

I do think we have pointed out one of the inherent flaws of this movie, some would say, which is in the intro, we said, hey, turn your brain off.

And now we are saying to get any of the Godzilla or King Kong messages out of this, you do have to think about all of its characters in a frame that the movie does not provide for you.

No.

So there is an issue.

There is.

It's the trade off of you are making a big dumb popcorn movie.

But what do you do with that?

Do you try and plant something that maybe someone else is thinking a little harder would go into, or are you doing it for the sake of doing it?

Kind of hard to tell.

I haven't looked at any interviews that would say one way or the other.

Yeah.

Either way, I think it's an awesome popcorn movie where giant monsters fight.

So how would you rate this as a movie?

Probably like nine, eight and a half.

And I'll go eight and a half.

As a film, it'd get a four.

As a movie.

Eight and a half.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll say enjoyment nine.

Easy.

Like, there's still some gripes I have, but, yeah, I came out of this feeling pretty good.

Now, once again, yeah, Script writing three.

Maybe I might go up to a three.

Five.

But yeah, it's not the tightest script in the world, but it is also exactly what they're selling you.

It's a dumb popcorn flick.

Have your fun.

Turn your brain off until we tell you not to.

But then don't worry about it because your brain's already off.

And being able to participate in, like, the anticipation of release was so, so nice.

It was so fun.

It was just a good time.

All right, so, tj, question.

We've been asking for Drive in this year.

What would you design as a Halloween treat for the Drive in?

It's hard for me to separate myself from the obvious, which is spaghetti cooked in red food dye and ground beef instead of meatballs brains.

That'd be good.

That'd be a great one.

I think going with this film specifically, that's not the criteria, but I'm doing that to myself, you know, gonna make you want to make some extra money.

Why don't you have special deals where you have giant Godzilla chocolate figures where you can bite off of them and they're filled with atomic breath or atomic whatever, and.

But every now and then you get a mecha Godzilla.

And it's still the different kind.

So it's the gotcha game that you can introduce and increase your sales.

Yeah, I like what a bunch of the, like higher brow movie theaters will do.

Like the ones with bars in them.

Well, they'll make like special drinks for movies.

When I went to see Dominion, they had a, they had like a dilophosaurus cocktail with like a slice of orange.

And that was really cool.

I didn't have one because, you know, but really cool concept.

Yes.

All right, so thank you guys for all you do listening to these episodes.

Really appreciate what you do.

Please get a chance to a five star review in your podcasting platform of choice.

Helps with the ratings there.

To help us find more people, feel free to head to all the places that we go to, but you can also head over to Fourth Wall where we pretty much everything that we've ever done and had is there.

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Head that way.

I would like to shout out some supporters real quick.

Thank you very much to Aaron Hardy, Daniel Sigman, Trip Fuller and James Barrett.

You guys are the best.

But remember, we all are chosen people.

A geekdom of priests.