What does it really take to make a documentary that finds an audience and earns its money back?

“You have to have the passion for the story and the passion to do the work, because it will not be easy.”

— Joe Amodei

If you want to make a documentary, the hardest questions are not the ones about cameras. They are about access, money, and whether anyone will ever watch it. In Documentary First Episode 283, a distributor who has spent more than forty-five years releasing films, and has now directed his first one, gives 7 filmmaking tips that cut straight to those questions, from getting access to a famous subject to setting a budget that can actually earn its money back.

In Episode 283, Christian Taylor sits down with Joe Amodei, the founder of Virgil Films and a film distributor of more than forty-five years, who has released hundreds of documentaries including Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, and Forks Over Knives. After decades of releasing other people's films and learning from the mistakes he watched filmmakers make, Joe finally made his own: Cold War in Philly, the story of the night in 1976 when the Philadelphia Flyers beat the Soviet Red Army. He came to find out whether his own advice would hold up.

The throughline is simple and a little daring: a career distributor became a first-time director, determined not to repeat the mistakes he had watched other filmmakers make. Along the way he explains how he got access to a legendary NHL team through its alumni association, why he kept the budget under $250,000, why a built-in audience mattered so much, and a first documentary that sold out theaters across Philadelphia. Running underneath it is the Cold War itself: the KGB minders, the players who hated the government but not each other, and the heroes Joe got on camera before they were gone.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

• How to get access to famous people and organizations, through the alumni association
• What Joe did once he was in the room: prove yourself, be yourself, and be honest
• The deals he had to clear before filming, the team, the owner, and the league, and that they took nearly a year
• Why a built-in audience is what decides whether an indie film succeeds
• What to budget for a documentary, and why Joe will not spend more than $250,000 on an indie doc
• How Joe made sure to get the players on camera, including two who passed away after their interviews
• Why his first film took two and a half years, and what he would do differently next time
• The qualities that make a film distributor worth trusting: answering calls, paying on time, being honest
• The two things Joe says it takes to finish a film
• Why Joe believes the work is worth it, from the players' gratitude to a film that outlives everyone

CHAPTERS

0:00 Becoming a First-Time Director

2:42 How Do You Get Access?

9:33 Capturing Heroes in Time

13:04 Structuring the Documentary

21:20 The Grind of Production

28:11 Selling Out Theaters

38:32 What Makes a Film Succeed?

41:37 What Should a Doc Budget Be?

44:48 How Do You Keep Going?

47:38 Is Filmmaking Worth It?

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

How do you get access to famous people or organizations for a documentary?

Go through the alumni association. Joe Amodei got the Philadelphia Flyers by working with the team's alumni group, which controls appearances for former players. Nearly every major sports team and league has one, usually run by one or two people. Find that person, earn their trust, and they can open the door to the whole roster. Then be ready to handle the separate contracts with the team, the owner, and the league.

How much does it cost to make a documentary?

For an independent documentary, Joe Amodei's rule is not to spend more than $250,000. The reasoning is about return: know what the film can realistically earn back before you set the documentary budget, and understand the market you are spending against. A built-in audience and disciplined spending give a documentary a real chance to make its money back.

What makes an independent film succeed in today's market?

A built-in audience. Joe Amodei says a film does best when people already care about the subject before it exists. Cold War in Philly had Flyers fans waiting for it, and the sold-out theatrical run followed. If you cannot name the audience for your idea, Joe's view is you might not want to make it. When you can, the film has a base to launch from and can cross over to viewers beyond the core, people who told Joe they were not even hockey fans.

What does it take to succeed as a documentary filmmaker?

Two things, according to Joe Amodei: passion and willpower. Passion for the story carries you through a process that will not be easy, and willpower keeps you going when the edit stalls and the work is not moving as fast as you wanted. You owe it to your investors, your subjects, and the people who gave up their time to sit for you. His advice is simple: you cannot give up.

What should you look for in a film distributor?

Christian describes what makes Joe a distributor worth trusting: he answers calls and emails, pays on time, sends the reports that are due, and is honest. She notes that this basic reliability is rarer than it should be in the business, and it is exactly what separates a distributor you can trust from one you cannot.

DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS

In the DocuView Déjà Vu segment, Joe Amodei highlighted two documentaries from the Virgil Films slate: She Was Here, about the young actress from Poltergeist, and Broken Brothers, directed by Jeff Levine, a future Documentary First guest. Both are available on Amazon and Apple TV.

SPONSORED BY

Virgil Films Entertainment. With more than twenty-five years of distribution experience, Virgil releases documentaries and indie features and works directly with every major platform. Learn more at https://virgilfilms.com.

ABOUT JOE AMODEI

Joe Amodei is the founder of Virgil Films and a film distributor with more than forty-five years in the industry. He started in retail, worked in live entertainment for Ted Turner and Barry Diller, and went on to release hundreds of documentaries, including Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, and Forks Over Knives. Cold War in Philly is his directorial debut, the story of the 1976 game in which the Philadelphia Flyers beat the Soviet Red Army. Learn more at https://coldwarinphilly.com.

ABOUT VIRGIL FILMS

Virgil Films and Entertainment is an independent distributor known for documentaries and indie features, with a catalog that includes Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives, To Die For, Seven Yards, and Speed is Expensive. The company works directly with every major transactional platform and offers filmmakers a range of deals, from standard distribution to service arrangements. Recent and upcoming releases include She Was Here and Broken Brothers. Learn more at https://virgilfilms.com.

ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

Documentary First is the show where we dig into the craft of filmmaking, the business, and the truth of it. Host Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom and Heroes of Carentan. Each week she sits down with the people who make documentaries and pulls out what actually works.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• Cold War in Philly (film site): https://coldwarinphilly.com
• Cold War in Philly is available to rent or buy on Amazon, Apple TV, Vudu, and YouTube
• Virgil Films: https://virgilfilms.com
• The Girl Who Wore Freedom (Christian Taylor, distributed by Virgil Films)
• Films referenced: Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives

LISTEN AND FOLLOW

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SUPPORT THE SHOW

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CONNECT

Documentary First Linktree: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

[Cold Open]

Joe Amodei 0:00

So at the very end of this movie, there are two quick pictures, two tributes. One is my daughter, Kate. But the other is me and Morgan Spurlock. It's very quick and it's very personal. So Morgan Spurlock, who everyone knows, made the movie Super Size Me, which re-released, became a very close, very dear friend of mine. And he ran into some problems, his career problems, and didn't work for quite some time. And I made it a mission of mine to go try to find a project that Morgan could direct and I could produce. I've never told this story publicly. So when I found this project, I went to Morgan and I said, I got it. You direct, I produce. And this could be your first step back into the industry. And he thought about it for not a long time. He said, No, I don't want to do it. I want you to do it. And I quickly said to him, What are you talking about? I'm not a director. He says, Yes, you are. And you know enough to make this film. And I will be there by your side to answer any questions you have while you're making it. Unfortunately, Morgan passed away not too long after that.

[Documentary First Title Card]

If you've ever wanted to make a film, but you gave up because you felt like you were too old, or you're a filmmaker wondering how to get access to a famous individual or organization, or maybe you're wondering how to get your film distributed, or maybe you're just interested in how to make a documentary. Well, you've come to the right place. Welcome to Documentary First. This is the show where we dig into the craft of filmmaking and the business and the truth of it. And I'm your host and filmmaker Christian Taylor. And today I am thrilled to welcome back to the show for the fifth time. You're a fifth timer now. I'm gonna need to get you a five timer jacket. And welcome back to the show. Friend of the show Joe Amodei. Welcome to the show Joe.

Hello, how are you?

Good, I'm good. So glad to have you here. Now, before we dive in, I have a question for the trivia geeks in our audience. Who beat the Soviet Red Army hockey team first. Now I'm gonna give you just a second to think about this. Okay, your second's up. Most people say it was the 1980 Miracle on Ice team. But four years earlier, a team from Philadelphia called the Broad Street Bullies did it. And that story mostly got lost. But thankfully there was one person who decided it needed to be told. And Joe here made a film about this story and he's here to talk about it. So Joe, I can't wait to dive into this. I watched the film yesterday. I learned a ton. I'm excited to learn a little bit more. So thank you so much. Let's talk about this. When did you get this idea? And you know tell me all about it.

Thank you. Thank you very much. The idea was with me for a very long time. as you know, I've been a film distributor for multiple but I've always been, you a filmmaker at heart. I've always wanted to make my own film. And it got to a point in my life when I had achieved success on the distribution side and just thought that this was the time. The time to do it was now. And I had a relationship with some of the alumni that played the game. And one night I was, you know, at an alumni event and I just sprung the question to one of the players. that played that game. His name is Orest Kindrachuk the Russians had just invaded Ukraine. So it was this game was fresh on his mind. And I quickly asked, you know, are there enough stories to tell about this game? And he looked around the room and pointed to a lot of other fellow alumni and said, every one of them has multiple stories that they'll be able to tell. And at that moment I said, all right, this is my film. And I decided to move forward at that moment.

Wow. All right. You said a couple of things there I want to follow up on. First of all, you said you've been a distributor most of your life, So full disclosure, you are a distributor for my film, The Girl Who Wore Freedom. We've had a wonderful relationship here since 2022. And you are also a sponsor of our podcast, which I thank you very much for. you've believed in this since the very beginning as well, and so thankful for you for that. Your distribution career you've talked about here on the show. In fact, like I said, you've been here five times and we are going to put all of those episodes in the show notes. So people go and listen to those episodes. He's talked about distribution and so many other things. lots of really fun stories on those episodes because I mean you started in this business, what, over forty-five years ago now?

I did. Started actually in retail and then moved into, you know, working for some studios, live entertainment. I worked for Ted Turner for a while, I worked for Barry Diller for a while, both of those gentlemen shut down their companies or sold their companies, but yeah, I've been in distribution my entire

Yeah. So if you guys want to hear more about that, super interesting stories on those other episodes, go check them out. Now you also talked about these players that you had relationships with. Now, most of us don't have relationships with hockey players on famous teams like the Broad Street Bullies. So one of the things filmmakers wonder a lot about is how do you get access to famous people? How do you get access to famous organizations like NHL hockey teams? So talk to us about how that happens.

For me and my film, it was all a matter of luck and you'll hear that word a lot during this podcast. And I'm very lucky to have a cousin that is that works very closely with the Flyers alumni. he sponsors a lot of their major events and he invited me to a dinner, a golf, a golf tournament and a dinner, and that's how I got to meet everybody. And so again, I the answer I could come up with some grandfalutan answer, but the answer is I have a cousin Danny. And that's really that gave me access, but it gave me access to meet them. I had to go through a lot to get the film off the ground. From that night, the first thing I had to do was deal with all the contracts. The contracts for the program, the contracts for the players, the you know, the Philadelphia Flyers are owned by Comcast.

Right.

So I had it, I had it, had to have a deal with the Flyers. I also had to have a deal with Comcast, and then I had to deal with the League for Rights. And all of that took quite a long time, almost a year, to get all of that settled before I started to interview players. Now, if you're a filmmaker out there and you're looking to make a film about a sports team, and if you're looking to make a film about a legendary sports team, not a current playing sports team, the answer is. go through the alumni. Every team, every sport has an alumni. And that alumni is used for charitable purposes. They're used for, you know, in stadium appearances or sports, sports cards appearances, sports memorabilia appearances. All of those players go through that team's alumni. And usually there's one or two people that run that alumni. So you find out who that person is and they will get you access to all of the players. And in my case, again, luck, to gentleman by the name of Brad Marsh, who could be the most wonderful man in the world, and he handles the alumni. So Brad put me in touch with everyone, every single player, and gave his permission to the players, gave kind of said Joe's a good guy, you know, work with him. And then I really got to know the players. So you go through the alumni, and it's the same thing for basketball, football.

Right.

Any major league sport and any major league team has their own alumni. Very important.

That is a great, great tip. But I want to go back to one thing you said. You're you keep coming back to this idea of luck, and that's super true true. However, that just gets you in the door. That gets you in the door. And I think one thing that you're super good at, or I don't think you'd be in the job that you're in. Once you're in the door, you gotta have some networking skills and you gotta be willing to talk to people. And, you have some ways that you do that, right? So talk to me about once you get in the door, what do you do?

Once you get in the door, you have to prove yourself in front of people time and time again. And sometimes you're sitting with the president of the Flyers alumni, and other times you're sitting with or you're in front of the president of Comcast. and I've met all of these folks, and you know, for me it I've again, I don't want to say luck, but it kind of comes natural. I've been selling films my entire life, whether it be standing in front of 30 or 40 salespeople or standing in at a convention in front of a thousand people. You know, you have to learn how to talk in front of people. And once you know, once you learn that and get past the nervousness of that, you just, you know, you kind of act natural. I'm me. I don't try to put on a different persona. I'm very honest about what I can do. When I went out and tried to you know, recruit some investors. I was very honest about the potential of the film. I didn't lay on any extra stuff that I didn't need to say or promise. and what I wanted to do with this film, and it goes back to why I wanted to tell this story, is that I am one of the fans. I am one of the kids that watched two Stanley Cups, two Stanley Cup wins, went to two parades in Philadelphia and sat in the living room with my mother and father and my sisters and brothers. And watched the Flyers whoop the Russians' butt. And that's that team, that team that won the cup and won that Flyers, that Russian game, became heroes of mine. And a lot of other people my age in Philadelphia. And they have stayed heroes in spite of the fact that, you know, we've won some World Series and some Super Bowls. It's different. These guys, most of them stayed in the area, stayed in the Philadelphia area. None of them became multi-billionaires. but they've been active with the alumni and they've never been totally out of our sight. And we fell in love with these guys. But at the same time, this happened 50 years ago, and they've all gotten a lot older, and I've gotten older. So I felt that there might be one more shot, one more chance that if I can make a film that pays tribute to these guys, that they would be able to show their kids.

Yeah.

And their grandkids, and their grandkids would have, you know, forty years from now watching it however you watch movies, then I would have achieved something. some people call it a love letter. Maybe we can call it a love letter to these guys. but I wanted to pay that tribute to not only the superstars, because this team had some superstars, Bobby Clarke, Bernie Parent These are the you know, these are iconic names in Philadelphia. But they also had some players on that team that, you know. didn't achieve that kind of startup, but maybe didn't have the long careers. I wanted to make sure they were spotlighted as well. and I was very lucky because I was able to do just about everything that I wanted to do and get everybody on camera. And that's probably the biggest, you know, the biggest thing that I that I'll take out of this is that I was able to get them.

Yeah. Well, and you were able to get someone before they passed away. I noticed that after you had caught them, they had passed away, especially the owner. The he was very important, to the organization, like critical. And I noticed he was in the film, but then he had passed away afterwards.

No, no. The owner of the film, Ed Snider, what you're seeing is archival footage. Yeah, Ed passed away. It's pretty good there. See, we got yeah, archival footage. that we got from the team. Ed passed away a while ago. His daughter's in the film. but the players we lost Ed Van Impe was the star of the game, integral to the game. And once the audience watches the film, they'll realize why. And then Bernie Parent who is probably the most popular player of the team for all time, and we lost him as well.

Wow, that's really amazing. I know how rewarding it is to realize that you did capture this story before you lost some of those amazing heroes and to accomplish a goal that you really had set out to achieve. I did love the photos at the end with you and your children that you had dedicated the film to. And you could see that you were the fan and that this was a love letter to that team. So let's talk a little bit about. The movie, why don't you set it up for us and tell us how you told the story?

So I really wanted to capture a snapshot of that weekend. The game was played on Sunday afternoon, but the Russians arrived on Friday and there was I rem I just remembered in my own mind my memories that you know there was a lot of things that happened over the weekend before the game. I didn't really remember what though. so when we started, you know, doing the research, we found out that there was a luncheon that was held on Saturday beforehand. And the lunch the whole idea behind the luncheon was to get the two teams to meet and, you know Kumbaya and then go play an exhibition game the following day and it totally backfired on both of them because they didn't like each other. this was 1976 the cold war was still rampant. our esteemed owner Ed Snider had been very involved in helping Jews get out of Russia because they couldn't just leave. and so there was a political, you know, slant to this game. Philadelphia's blue collar workers, you know, we didn't care for the Russians. I think, you know, the only time in history that we might have disliked the Russian government more is now than we did back then, you know, but we didn't like the Russians. The and the Russians had come and played n nine other games against NHL teams, two teams, two Russian teams, and they had pretty much mishandled every other team. Montreal, they tied. They beat the Rangers pretty bad. They beat Boston. They kind of embarrassed the NHL. So it came down to our game against the Philadelphia Flyers, nicknamed the Broad Street Bullies because they were a tough team. So we had to win for s a lot of different reasons. And so when we did win, it was one more moment to be proud. And it forever etched these guys into the iconic hero. heroes of sports in Philadelphia. And in particular to me. So I tried to bring all that out. So when we had all this footage and we had a lot of there's no video footage from the luncheon, but we had a lot of photos and you know, we went with do we just tell the film in order from Saturday through Sunday? Or do we mix and match periods and I decided just tell it in a linear fashion, beginning to end. and I think it worked out that way. Then those of those important figures in the Philadelphia history, like Gene Hart, who was the announcer, or Ed Snider, or Fred Shero who was the coach, we did little spotlights on them throughout the film as well. And I think that worked. A lot of this it's me, but it's not just me. It's a great editor and cameraman by the name of Bert Archer. And it's, you know, people that put up money to help me make this movie. So

Yeah, we're always so thankful for those people who catch the vision and are willing to come alongside of us to help tell those stories. They're so important. I really appreciated and enjoyed the stories that you highlighted where it really humanized everyone and you sort of lifted the veil bet behind the real people. So the first moment where I really connected

Yes.

And really felt touched and heartwarmed. was the story about the gentleman who traded the Kennedy half dollar for the pins. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What was his name? I didn't catch who he was.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a gentleman by the name of Lou Nolan, and Lou is the in stadium, in arena announcer. He's been there forever, over 50 years. Still does it. And so in between, I guess it was in between periods or before maybe it was during workout. He was in the hallway and a Russian player, none of them spoke English, came up and Lou was wearing a flyer's pin. And the Russian pointed to the pin. he wanted one, and but Lou didn't have a pin, you know.

Okay.

Didn't have anything to give him, so he reached in his pocket and pulled out a Kennedy, a couple of Kennedy half dollars and traded a half dollar for the pin. And Russians, so next thing you know, the team, or we think it's the team, but a bunch of heads came out of the dressing room, said we want pins, we want pins, but Lou didn't have any more half dollars. So we went back to the bank, got a bunch of half dollars, came and got a lot of Russian pins. and the Russians loved it. The team loved it. But in between periods, their doctors is what they were called. But you know, you look back at it now, and I'm sure it was KGB, went into the locker room and took all the half dollars away. Because they didn't want to bring them back half dollars. We ended up Lou ended up giving him some more anyway. But they but the key to this was the team came over with a bunch of men in suits. And the men in suits, they were told, were doctors. But the men in suits never left the team. The team was never left alone. For one second because they were afraid that they would run, you know, the day. Yeah. The one of the stories that's not in the film is at the end of the game, and it was only about 10-15 minutes after the end of the game, they noticed that the Russian team was leaving. They were all dressed, their hair was slicked back, but they were still sweating. It was obvious they didn't take any showers. It was kind of weird, you know. So When they went into the Russian locker room, the Russians had taken they didn't take any showers because they had taken all of the towels and all of the soap. Because they didn't have this. They don't have this in Russia. So they took all of that stuff. And just you know, those kinds of stories that the players, you know, one of the stories from the same gentleman, Lou Nolan, you know, he took him to get cheesesteaks. You have to get a cheesesteak if you come to Philadelphia. He told the story about the coins, but one story

Love that.

Yeah, we didn't include is the other place they wanted to go was a local mall because they all wanted to buy blue jeans. And that's what they bought, because you could not get I mean, these you know, this was part of the Red Army. They weren't professional players being paid. They were part of the army. same team that played the 1980 Olympic team. That's why the Olympic win was so huge because this there's a bunch of school kids playing.

Wow.

The Russian Red Army and beating him. but we were the first we were the first team to beat him.

The other thing that I really enjoyed was when the two captain and assistant captain got together in the basement.

Which story are you talking about?

They're in the basement, they hadn't seen

When they came off the ice?

Each other. No, this is when they're grown, they're old men and they're one of 'em's going into the other's basement. They were buddies. they were always encouraged each other after the games.

It the two brothers.

They're brothers? I didn't realize they were brothers.

No, no, they're brothers. Jim and Joe Watson. hadn't seen each other for a while. Joe is probably the oldest player at this time, and Jimmy's living wise, I think he's the youngest.

Yeah, I was gonna say he looked so much younger. I like, How is he so much younger than everyone?

Yeah. Yeah, they're great. They're wonderful guys. They come from a very small town called Smithers, which up is which is up in British Columbia. And I think when Joe left the town, there was only about seven hundred people living there. There's a few thousand people living there now, but out of the small little town that is nowhere, seven or eight kids made the NHL out of that town. Yeah. 'Cause all they did was play hockey. That's all they did. Though Joe also had a baseball career. He almost ended up with the New York Yankees.

Wow. Yeah.

These are things you find out after the film. But you know, the players, they're just ordinary folk. it was like interviewing your next door neighbor. It wasn't you know, again, they had no heirs, they had no demands or anything like that. they were all really, really nice. You know, people have asked me, you know, who wasn't, you know, that nice to interview? And They were all great,

During this whole experience, how long did it take from beginning to end to

It took about two and a half years to make the movie and there's a whole lot of reasons why, but the main reason why is that I attempted to direct produce and direct the film at the same time I'm running Virgil Films. so that's not what I'll do if I do this again. and the same thing with my film my cameraman, he also had some pretty important gigs. he had to do that took us away from this film. So we never dedicated a hundred percent of our time to the film and that's why that's one of the reasons why I took

Well, quite frankly, two and a half years to make a documentary is not that long.

You know what? It's funny. yeah, it's not. I know obviously I know a lot of documentary filmmakers and some of them say, How'd you pull off in two and a half years?

It's really not. It can take up to ten. I mean, ask you know, ask Ken Burns. It can take up to twenty-five. So yeah. Two and a half years is not that long. So I kudos to you. Talk to me about what the most surprising things were to you. You can tell me what the most surprising things were in the story, but I'd also like to know the most surprising things about

I know. I know. I'm very lucky. I'm very, very lucky. Thank you.

Making the film. You know, you've talked to filmmakers forever. So you know a lot about the filmmaking business, but this is the first time you've been a director. So talk to me about both angles. You know, from the story, what was the most surprising? And then as a first time director, what was the most surprising?

For the story, probably The most surprising was some of the things that happen off camera, I guess, or things that I've learned since the film's been released, because I've done quite a few Q & A's with players. and it's probably something that I always knew, but they didn't dislike the players. they played them really, really tough, but they didn't dislike the players. In fact, some of them, in particular the goalie, Tretiak, he actually worked for the NHL for many, many years, they became fri they became friends. They hated the government. That's they hated the government. And you know, again, if you look at today, Russian players are coming over, put players from Europe and it's not the players that people don't like, you know, and they're they could say the same thing about us, I guess. So that surprised me. The other thing that surprised me is that when I went to, you know, the question is asked all the time, why aren't there any Russian players in this film? Because all but two of them are gone. They died. So you got 13 alive of the Broad Street Bullies and two alive of the Russian Red Army team. And that directly goes to say about what their lives were like when they stopped playing hockey.

Wow,

And the two players that are still alive when the war broke out went back to Moscow and that's where they that's where they're at now. So I wasn't interested. Rough to get a really yeah, get a good interview now. But yeah, but so that was very surprising to me that those players

Yeah, rough to get it rough to get an interview now. Not possible.

Surprising as far as making the film is, you know, I know a lot of documentary filmmakers, you included. And, you know, the one thing that I've always heard and that I've witnessed is, you know, this is really hard. this is really, really hard. And I'm not sleeping. And I said to myself when I started this, I'm not gonna have any of those problems. Cause, you know, I won't do that or I won't go that direction. And Yeah, I there's a lot of times when you lose a lot of sleep. You know, you're laying there, it's three o'clock in the morning and why didn't I do that? Or I have to do this. But I've also learned, you know, I had the greatest education before I started doing this. I know hundreds of documentary filmmakers because I have released hundreds of documentary films. And every film I've released, I've had long conversations with those filmmakers. You know, you're a little bit different. I've had, you know, you and I became really close friends, but you know, you talk to these people, you listen to their journey. And I did not want to make mistakes that I saw other filmmakers make. And I've been pretty good at it. In fact, I've been very, very good at it. you know, the temptation to do film festivals, that really hit me. The temptation to hold off on a digital release because I'm still playing theaters. You know, I y you have to weigh a whole lot of different things. but so far, I think I've made the right decisions.

Good. Well that's encouraging to hear. And it's interesting. I think you can say, Well, I'm not gonna do this and I'm not gonna make that mistake, and we do think things are under our control. But the truth is it's not. Everything's not under our control. And so as much as we wanna say w we're going to do this or that, we can't control everything. And

No, right.

Ken Burns says, and I quote this all the time being a producer, being a director, it's just solving a million problems. And you don't know what those are until they come at you. And you're right, you're gonna make mistakes and you're gonna rethink things, and especially when you're telling the story. That's a puzzle. And you and oftentimes how you're gonna film things is a puzzle. And those are the things that I remember keeping you up at night, waking you up in the middle of the night, and your brain is working. While you're sleeping, your brain is working, trying to Figure that out 'cause sometimes in the morning I would wake up and have the answer.

Yeah, that's true. That is true. I mean th w when I talk about controlling things, you obviously you control your street date. You control who's going to have the film available, you know, a at all at a certain time. Because you have no idea. but from the moment the film is out, from the moment the film is released, it becomes its own thing. And it either flourishes or it doesn't. And in my case so far, we are flourishing big time. I mean, we released Yeah, we so we the to give you a very short history of since release date, we premiered a film in May twenty seventh at a theater in Center City, downtown Philadelphia. And then we've done screenings of the film in select theaters all around the Philadelphia area. And I had six screenings planned. Six.

Wow. That's great.

Yeah. So those six have turned into just in the month of July, I have seventeen screenings. I have seven more in September, three more in October. Those six every single theater we played, we've sold out. Not only we sold out, but every single one of those theaters have added more screenings. So yeah, so I'm watching this bloom.

That's awesome.

In the Philadelphia area. And I'm showing the film at a theater in Boston in September. And now I'm getting organizations that are calling me, museums that want to do a big night. it's again, it's on fire. most of my time during the day is spent talking to theaters. So I'm learning, I've really learned how to release a movie theatrically.

And that's an interesting beast. I did a hundred theaters with my film, I think, a summer or two ago. And it's not easy. That theatrical release thing is not easy and it costs money because you've got to sometimes make, you know, DCPs and it's a tricky thing. so yeah.

Yeah. No, I yeah, I've had to do all that. and but it's worked so far. It's worked. And I'm gonna run with the theatrical well past when the film I mean the film by you can go to Amazon right now and rent the film. You can go to Amazon, you can go to Vudu, you can go to YouTube TV. It is available to rent or buy to own, but I'm still playing theaters.

Yeah, well you can do that these days and ride the wave, you know, ride the wave for sure. Yep.

Yeah. I'm riding a wave right now. as we're doing this podcast, I'm riding a wave.

Yeah. Well, we're gonna show the trailer. We're gonna take a few minutes. I want people to see your trailer because I think people need to take a look at this film. So without further ado, everybody, this is Cold War in Philly.

[Trailer plays: Cold War in Philly]

Reggie Leach: Everybody said that the Russians were the best hockey team in the world.

Bobby Clarke: They were the evil empire, and it turned out they were really, really good at the sport of hockey.

Jim Jackson: The Cold War was at its apex. We didn't like losing anything to Russia.

Jim Watson: We're considered to be the best league in the world, and now our teams are getting knocked off. What does that say about the NHL?

Bill Barber: It outscored the teams 15 to 8 through the first three games. They had pretty good success in the league, but they haven't played the Flyers yet.

Bobby Clarke: Here we are the last game and it's the Flyers, who had not really liked it that time. Our team was probably arrogant, cocky, whatever the right word is.

Dave Schultz: We dominated the National Hockey League for three years.

Don Saleski: They thought we were just a bunch of bullies going out trying to beat people up.

Ed Van Impe: The Russians knew our reputation and we certainly didn't want to disappoint them.

Don Saleski: You could see fear in their eyes.

Gary Dornhoefer: We had to win. No excuses. Go out there and play your game.

Broadcast Announcer: The estimated viewing and listening audience is a quarter of a billion.

Bill Clement: Now the entire world is involved with this one game. It built to a crescendo.

Broadcast Announcer: 19 seconds left. He gives him a real elbow. Looking for a man up the slot. Kharlamov is jumped by, there it is, but the Flyers...

Scott Herman: They felt that they were getting their butts kicked.

Broadcast Announcer: The Soviets have left the ice.

Bob Kelly: Something new. I've never seen anybody walk off the ice before.

Broadcast Announcer: They are walking out.

Orest Kindrachuk: What a bunch of gutless players these guys are.

Bobby Clarke: Mr. Snider threatened not to pay them, so back they come.

Dave Schultz: It's funny when you talk to people about the Russians, they can remember where they were that day when we played the game.

Broadcast Announcer: Now the Soviets have a two on one. Up the middle, over the line. Shot. Kick save!

Ed Gruver: I think that no team has ever or will ever be under the kind of pressure that the Flyers were under for that one game. One game to decide hockey supremacy. Let's go Flyers.

All right, Joe. That's an amazing trailer. I do hope people will go to a streaming network or you know, live at a theater. I hope you they can find out where it's gonna be in a theater near them. Do you have somewhere where people can find out if it's gonna be released theatrically near them?

Everything is on coldwarinphilly.com.

Okay, great. coldwarinphilly.com. We'll put that in the notes. I have to laugh because we're about to roll our sponsor reel, which is something that I put together for you. So our film is sponsored by your company, Virgil Films. and well I'm not gonna say anything more about it because I do that in this sponsor reel. So a word from our sponsor.

[Sponsor reel: Virgil Films Entertainment]

Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at Virgil Films. With over 25 years of distribution experience, Virgil has released such hits as Super Size Me and the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, along with a trove of indie treasures like Forks Over Knives, To Dye For, Seven Yards, and Speed is Expensive. Now you can find all of those films, along with the entire Virgil catalog, on any transactional platform out there like Amazon, Apple TV, YouTube, Tubi, and the rest. Are you a filmmaker having trouble with distribution? Talk to Virgil. They work with every major platform directly, and they offer a variety of deals that fit every filmmaker's needs, from standard distribution to service deals. They do it all. And they don't just distribute films, they elevate them. Truthfully, they're just really good people to work with. So if you want to learn more, head over to Virgilfilms.com and tell them Christian Taylor sent you. And now, on with the show.

Well there you have it.

Thank you. Our pleasure to be your one of your sponsors.

Joe is one of the good guys. I meant what I said. And I just want to say how I know that. I know that because we were introduced by Donna Reed's daughter, Mary Owen. And that's what she said to me. Her words were you need to meet Joe Amodei. He's one of the good guys. And that is true. So, what I mean by that, people, if you're listening, Joe answers your phone calls or your emails. He Pays his bills on time. He gives you the reports that are due. He's honest. And that's what distributors are supposed to do. And that's, you know, unusual. It's not heard of in this business. And so that's why I am a super fan of Joe and of Virgil Films. He's got a great team. Kelly is the one that handles all the books and accounting, and Tim is the one that's Taking on more and more stuff all the time. And you've got a social media team. Is it Joe?

No, it's Joe, me. No, it's we listen, there's three of us that work for Virgil and we do everything. but Tim is my partner in the company and he handles social media. He's my digital guy. He handles probably most of what Virgil films is all about these days. And graciously gave me the time, gave me the time, allowed me the time to go make this movie.

Yeah, I've loved working with you guys and you know, you've gone over and above for me and I've really appreciated that. So anyway, there you go. It's more than you paid for.

There is one thing I want to I wanna mention and it's the very first time I've mentioned this in any conversations I've had about this film in any Q & A's it's never been brought up. Well it's you, it's you and you'll understand. So at the very end of this movie, there's very two quick pictures, two tributes. one is my daughter, Kate.

We love having a scoop. So please mention. Mm-hmm.

But the other is me and Morgan Spurlock.

Is that who that was?

It's very quick and it's very personal. So Morgan Spurlock, who everyone knows, you know, made the movie Supersize Me, which re-released, became a very close, very dear friend of mine. And he ran into some problems, his career problems, and didn't work for quite some time. And I made it a mission of mine to go try to find a project that Morgan could direct and I could produce. Never again, never told this story publicly. So when I found this project, I went to Morgan and I said, I got it. You direct, I produce. And this could be your first step back into the industry. And he thought about it for not a long time. He said, No, I don't want to do it. I want you to do it. And I quickly said to him, "What are you talking about? I'm not a director." He says, "Yes, you are. And you know enough to make this film. And I will be there by your side to answer any questions you have while you're making it." Unfortunately, Morgan passed away not too long after that. And so this is a true story. and this is why I dedicated the movie to Morgan at the end. Most people look because it's very quick. and you know, most people knew Morgan's name but didn't know what he looked like because they forgot about Super Size Me. But yeah, so that's Morgan Spurlock at the end of the film.

Well, I knew I saw it there. And I assumed because I said this in the beginning. I noticed that you dedicated to your kids. So I thought Morgan was one of your children. So I did not know that. So I'm so glad you shared that. That's really, really sweet and interesting and how fascinating. He really believed in you. How cool is that?

Yeah, he was very close. I was very close I miss him a lot.

Let's talk a little bit about distribution. Was it difficult for you to get distribution?

It was tough. I interviewed one company. I you know, when I pitched the film to folks like Comcast or folks like the Philadelphia Flyers, part of my pitch was, and I don't have to find distribution. I already have it. So I'm guaranteeing you that someday this movie will be available on Amazon. Yeah, that's usually the pitch we give everybody. Cause at the least case Your movie will be a available on Amazon. So, and I was able to say that without, you know, I was without lying, without this is the truth, you know. Virgil's distributing the film. So that's half of the battle right there. but the plan was to release this movie in six theaters and very quickly put it out, just like a whole lot of other films. But then all of a sudden I'm like, well, wait a minute, you sold out? Yeah, yeah, we sold out. And yeah, we sold out the next night too, and then the next theater. Joe, we're sold out and then the next theater sold out. And then I'm like, wow, I gotta move some dates around and luckily Tim, you know, is really on top of things and I think our strategy now is working because now that it's out, we're still booking theaters.

Yeah. Well, this goes to a point that you've talked about on our podcast before, which is what makes a film successful today. And we've talked about this with To Dye For When you come with a built in audience, it always helps your film succeed, right?

Always. Always. That's a good rule. and if you don't, if you have an idea to make a film and you don't think there's an audience out there, then you might not want to make that film. but there's a point to this though, because a lot of people said to me when I had this idea, they said, Who's gonna want to watch that? And I said, You know, Flyers fans. And they said, Yeah, well what about you know Once you get past Flyers fans, who's gonna want to watch this? And I said, No, other people will want to watch this because it's more than just about a game. It's about an event, a political event, though a lot of people don't want to call it a political event. And I think we'll get past the Flyers fans. And I've had so many people, so many, call me up or send me emails saying I'm not even a hockey fan. I didn't even know who these people were. And I really enjoyed your film. And so, you know, sometimes if your gut is still telling you to move forward, but your friends or great friends are saying, maybe you should think about that. Yeah, you should still think about it, but that doesn't mean that you don't do it. but again, be very careful because you're in most cases you're using other people's money today.

Yeah, and that's a really good point. And also I want to throw in there, you need to make sure, and we've talked about this before on other podcasts, you meet need to make sure that you're aware of the numbers. So you don't want to overspend what you think you may potentially make back. And to understand that, you need to understand the market. So you're better at speaking about that than I am. You've told me in the past it's not wise for a documentary filmmaker to spend over $250,000.00. Does that rule still stand? Why don't you talk about the numbers in documentary film distribution?

I without going into what the budget would I finally spent on this movie, because I would never do that to my investors, but it's not over $250,000.00 that's for sure. So when I started to think about making the movie and I was serious, and I sat down to write my budget, my first budget, because there was multiple budgets, but the first one that I presented to my main investor, his name is Brian Samuelson. I can say his name because he helped me more than anybody in this world on the film, both financially and being my support. I looked and I said, okay, these are the players I need to interview. And I think there's 13 and 10 live in the Philadelphia area. So I would drive to their house and interview them. And then there was a huge event coming up in Philadelphia where the Flyers were celebrating winning the Stanley Cup. And a lot of the players were flying into town. To attend that event. So working with the alumni, we said, okay, this person, this, this guy, this guy, this guy, they're flying in. We're gonna set them up and you'll be able to interview them. At the end of the day, I only had a fly to two places on my own on the films dime, and that was one in northern Canada, Manitoulin Island, which was a venture all by itself. And then to interview Ed Van Impe I had to go to Vancouver Island, which was really cool because I flew out, I hired a cameraman out there. I flew out, landed in Vancouver, and I had to make a decision. I can get in a car and drive an hour and a half to the ferry, which was what everybody does, to go to Vancouver Island, or I could take a seaplane, which holds four people. that actually lands in the water almost walking distance from where the Van Impes lived. So I obviously chose the seaplane, did not tell my wife until I came home. And it was wonderful. And again, it was just part of the adventure of making the film.

Wow. Yeah. Well, that's pretty cool. That's really awesome. Super. All right. Well, this has really been a fascinating story. I'm so proud of you for doing this. following your gut, following a dream, pressing through all of the difficulties and the hard times. I think when I asked you at the beginning of this, is there any message that you want to get across

Yeah, it was fun. It was a lot of fun.

And is there ill you know anything that filmmakers should take away from your experience? What did you tell me?

I think I told you that the first thing is you have to have the passion for the story and the passion to do the work because it will not be easy. No matter, you know, I look back at this and I think of all the great moments that I had sitting in front of folks that were my idols. and but I also remember when, you know, one in one was not equaling two, or I had a weight. To interview a player much longer than I needed, that I wanted to wait, things weren't happening as fast as I wanted them, wanted them to. The edit wasn't coming along the way I expected it to. Those sleepless nights we talked about, it's really, really hard. But again, you know, and I think I said this to you personally, when it was finished, or no, not when it was finished, from the very first moment, the very first person we interviewed. That camera turned on and I started asking questions. And in the back of my mind I said, This is the greatest thing I've ever done. It's and I let's get this one done because I want to make another. As hard as now again, I'm I don't want to go back to luck, but this film is done quite well. and if it continues to go like it is, I will be able to pay back my investors. So you know that's a You know, that's a dream come true. but you can't give up. There's there was times when I wanted to just, you know, kind of walk away, but you can't walk away. One, you got investors, and then you got all the people that have worked with you, including the players that gave up their time to come and sit and be drilled by me under a light for an hour and a half, you know? and every one of them did it. Every one of them went out of their way to help me, some a lot more than others. So you're you know, you're indebted to them, you're indebted to your financer, I'm indebted to my wife because, you know, I was gone a lot doing this and she had a put up with me kinda going a little bit you know, a little bit crazy. so, you know, and my business partners, I mean, everybody. everybody.

Enter business partners. Yeah. And you said willpower too. Passion and willpower.

Passion and willpower, yes. yeah, you just so I never you can't give up. You just you can't give up. And two and a half years is one thing, five years is another. you if you're committed and you stay committed, it'll work out at the end.

And what did the players say after all was said and done?

I've had players come up to me in tears. across the board, nothing but thank yous. Nothing but thank yous. yeah. Yeah, nothing but thank yous. Across the board. Across the board. And again, we're still doing, you know, we're still doing screenings with QA's and they're a blast. The players are loving it.

That's amazing. Yeah.

So they're getting something out of this. They're bringing their families to the screenings. They're bringing their grandkids to the screenings. I could not, you know, I there's a segment in the movie where we pay tribute to our the announcer Gene Hart and his daughter is in the film. So she came to a screening, and I went up to her afterwards and say, What did you think? And I could tell she had tears in her eyes, and she had not heard.

Mm-hmm.

Her father broadcast that game. She was there. And then there was no reruns. So she's in the audience. So she never heard the broadcast of her father's voice. And this was the first time in fifty years she had heard it. Emotional night for her. so those are the type of things that I've been, you know, a part of and I feel very blessed right now.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if this is true for you. tell me if it is. But there's so many times we ask ourselves, why do we do this? Is it worth the pain? It are we crazy? But what I've just gotten back from Normandy from working on this next film. And I was working with this 88 year old man who was given my next film, This New Life. I talked about it in last week's podcast. And he just kept saying to me You've closed a circle for me. he just kept talking about how amazing it was for him, you know, how it healed him, how and he was just so full of smiles. And his son was there feeling the same way that he had been able to walk this journey with his father. And I walked away from that whole experience thinking, if I never finish this film. I've given this family something that

Yeah. Yeah. You have.

It was in a sense my gift to them. You know, they he this man lived through this battle and now I've given this ability to walk through it, to relive it, to share it with his family. it and it will be even more rewarding once the film is made and more people can see this. But I think in documentary filmmaking, that bond that we make with people that are willing to share their stories, it's more than just a film. You are entering into a relationship with people that are giving you these times and sharing these stories. And when we give them that space, it is healing, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. It's very important. And the type of movies that you make, and that if I do continue doing this will make, are these life affirming stories that, you know, talk about man's humanity and talk about, you know, heroism. I'm not planning on making a serial killer documentary or anything like that. I that's not my, you know, that's for other people, but you know, what you just gave to that man and his son will be forever. And when you finish the film, because you will finish it, they'll have that as well. Forever. And like I said, and I've said this in some of the QA's, you know, none of us are going to be here forever, you know. and so how will people watch movies 20 years from now, 30 years from now? I have no idea. But I know they're going to be watching movies. And I know some of them are going to be watching my movies.

Yeah.

And it might be the great grandson of Joe Watson. I have no idea. I hope it is. and I hope that the great grandkids of all of those players are watching this film. It will be available for them to see what their great grandfather did when they beat the hell out of the Russians.

It's awesome. I'm so glad that you recorded that for posterity. All right. One other thing before we go, it's time for everybody's favorite segment, DocuView Deja Vu. All right, Joe, why don't you tell us one or two of the documentaries that Virgil Films is just releasing right now?

Yeah, so Thank you. it's really putting me on the spot. What releasing right now, what we're about to release. Yeah, well this is

Either one. Well, we want people

So there's yeah, there's a couple. it's a really good documentary quote She's Still Here, which is the story of the young girl from Poltergeist.

She Was Here Let me correct you on the title's name.

I'm sorry. She Was Here.

We interviewed Brian Pocrass on an earlier podcast, and

And you will be interviewing Jeff Levine from Broken Brothers.

I sure will. That's a that's one people are gonna wanna catch as well. Broken Brothers. And these can be found on Amazon as well and Apple TV. also you can go to Virgilfilms.com, which will be in our show notes, and you can see the other films that Virgil Films is releasing along with The Girl Who Wore Freedom.

I was just gonna say, and we just you know, we just w went past another July fourth, and The Girl Who Wore Freedom is indicative of what this country is all about and the things that we need to continue to remember that this country is about.

Yeah, I appreciate that. This is a great time to watch that film. it really is, and to remember you know, when our country was at our finest when she was sacrificing so that others might live. And I still remain very proud of that film. And I appreciate you distributing it and believing in it. All right, everybody. Well, this has been Documentary First, where we believe everybody has a story to tell, and you can be the one to tell it, and you are never too old.

Yes. Yes. We should. We should.

To tell the film that you've been wanting to tell. So get out there and make those stories. All right.

Thank you. Thank you. go see this movie. It's wherever you rent movies, it's there. Go see it.

Yep. Everybody go see the film. Support Joe. All right, everybody. Take care. We'll see you next time. Bye, everybody.

Thank you. Bye.