Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell dive into the enchanting world of Disney's "Dumbo", marking it as the third film in their exploration of the Golden Era of Disney Animation. They kick things off by discussing the film's unique place in animation history, especially considering it was made during a time when Disney was scrambling to recover from the lackluster performances of its predecessors. With its iconic flying elephant, "Dumbo" tells a heartfelt story about embracing differences and finding one's true potential, all while navigating the circus life. The duo shares their thoughts on the film's animation style, memorable scenes, and the emotional depth that speaks to audiences both young and old. They also reflect on how the film holds up today, bringing a mix of nostalgia and critical analysis to the table, ensuring listeners are treated to both insight and laughter.
The discussion revolves around Disney's classic film Dumbo, as Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell dive into the quirks and charms of this beloved animated feature from the Golden Era of Disney Animation. They kick things off with a lighthearted banter, reminiscing about their own experiences with the film, which was released back in 1941. Both hosts reflect on the film's historical context, noting that it was released just before the United States entered World War II, a factor that adds a layer of complexity to its creation. Dumbo's animation, while simple, is described as endearing, and the hosts marvel at how the film's message of embracing one's differences resonates even today. They dive into the character of Dumbo himself, discussing how his oversized ears, which initially seem like a burden, become his greatest asset, symbolizing the show's core message that uniqueness can lead to greatness. As they reminisce about the film's memorable scenes, especially the iconic 'Pink Elephants on Parade,' they also touch upon the darker aspects of the circus life depicted in the movie, prompting a discussion on how such themes would be received in today's world. Overall, their conversation captures the nostalgia associated with Dumbo while also encouraging listeners to appreciate the film's deeper messages about acceptance and self-love.
Takeaways:
Dumbo, released in 1941, was created during a challenging time for Disney, aiming to recover financially after the less successful Pinocchio and Fantasia.
The podcast highlights how Dumbo's story, centered around embracing differences, remains relevant, emphasizing the importance of one's unique traits as strengths.
Listeners learn how the film's animation style was simpler and more cost-effective, showcasing Disney's ability to tell a compelling story without relying heavily on complex visuals.
Dumbo's character is notable for being a silent protagonist, making it easier for children to connect with his struggles and triumphs, which the hosts found intriguing.
Joshua and TJ humorously discuss the film's historical context, including its references to circus culture and the implications of animal treatment in the narrative.
The episode wraps up with a lively banter about Dumbo's legacy in modern media, including its iconic rides at Disney parks and its cultural significance.
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Transcripts
Speaker A:
Foreign.
Speaker A:
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, elephants, carnies, and mice of all ages, we welcome you to the wonderful world of Walt Disney's animation Studios.
Speaker A:
Not really, but it'll be us talking about Walt Disney's Animation Studios.
Speaker A:
On systematic geekology.
Speaker A:
We are the priest to the geeks.
Speaker A:
And today we continue our run through the various eras of Disney animation.
Speaker A:
Weird one, we started this series of doing two movies per era, got about halfway through and realized we needed to do three per era.
Speaker A:
Plus, you guys seem to really like it based on, like, download numbers.
Speaker A:
So we're like, all right, we'll go back through.
Speaker A:
And the ones that we only did two, four, we're gonna do, like, an encore, encore round.
Speaker A:
Doing one more to get it to three.
Speaker A:
So this ends up being our third film reviewing in the gold era of Disney animation in the series.
Speaker A:
And we're gonna be talking about Disney's Dumbo.
Speaker A:
Excited for this one?
Speaker A:
I am Joshua Noel, your resident dis nerd, here with the one and only bot almighty DJ Tiberius on Blackwell.
Speaker A:
Welcome to one of your shows.
Speaker B:
Thank you.
Speaker A:
Yeah, he probably has the record for most podcast, like, owned by someone who didn't want to start a podcast.
Speaker A:
Probably.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Like, I don't.
Speaker A:
I don't think he, like, was against starting a podcast.
Speaker A:
He just didn't have a desire to start it.
Speaker B:
No.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
But here he is.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
With that, we are going to talk about what we've been geeking out on lately.
Speaker A:
A few things.
Speaker A:
For me, I've been playing through the Trine series again, the video game fantasy series, thanks to another episode we did.
Speaker A:
And I'm like, that's right.
Speaker A:
These are fun.
Speaker A:
They're good.
Speaker A:
I don't have to think too hard games.
Speaker A:
There's a few other games I'm still playing, but I do have to think too hard.
Speaker A:
This isn't one of them.
Speaker A:
So I like it.
Speaker A:
It's nice right now.
Speaker A:
Good stretch.
Speaker B:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:
I'm playing Magic the Gathering again.
Speaker B:
But Commander, you know, I played magic for a few years, but never.
Speaker B:
Commander also is just a standard player, so it's pretty cool.
Speaker B:
It's pretty sick.
Speaker B:
It's a little expensive.
Speaker A:
Like Commander Shepard.
Speaker B:
Nope.
Speaker A:
Okay.
Speaker A:
Something.
Speaker A:
Something different.
Speaker A:
Yep, one day, I'm gonna learn to play magic.
Speaker A:
Actually, I have learned.
Speaker A:
I've played it.
Speaker A:
I just don't have cards or money to get cards.
Speaker A:
But one day, maybe.
Speaker A:
Today, though, we do want to ask you guys rate review our show wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker A:
Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever helps algorithms think the show's important.
Speaker A:
Which means other People find the show which helps us so indirectly help us by reading or reviewing the show.
Speaker A:
And we appreciate it.
Speaker A:
Also got to shout out one of our financial supporters.
Speaker A:
Today we're going to shout out Austin Nance.
Speaker A:
Austin, you rock.
Speaker A:
Dude.
Speaker A:
I feel like I haven't shouted you out in a minute.
Speaker A:
So it's about time we did that.
Speaker A:
We did it.
Speaker A:
Well, hopefully TJ say Austin's name, then I can Austin dance.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Now I know for sure.
Speaker A:
We did it.
Speaker A:
Well.
Speaker A:
Alright guys, remember, you get your own shout out.
Speaker A:
Becoming an official member of Sysmatic Ecology by going to our website and doing the things that it says.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
You can also get some free content over there.
Speaker A:
You can buy merch on the website, you can leave a one time financial gift, all kinds of stuff without joining as a member if that's not your gig, or join as a member again, website, it's cool.
Speaker A:
Also, again, this is the third film we're covering in the golden era of Disney's animation, so we're excited to do that.
Speaker A:
If you want to hear the rest of the episodes in the playlist, there will be a link in the show notes for that as well.
Speaker A:
Lots of links, lots of stuff.
Speaker A:
Worth your time to actually read the show notes?
Speaker A:
I think probably.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
So with that, let's jump into it.
Speaker A:
Dj.
Speaker B:
All right.
Speaker A:
Today, talking about Dumbo.
Speaker A:
Is this your first time hearing about Dumbo, Walt Disney's Dumbo or have you heard of this movie before?
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
No, never.
Speaker B:
Until you were like, hey, let's watch Dumbo.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
You're like, what's that?
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Yes.
Speaker B:
What's Dumbo?
Speaker A:
Yeah, it's a weird way.
Speaker A:
If we're gonna talk about like our history with Dumbo, it's like for both of us.
Speaker A:
Movie came out in 41.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
I have no idea what I first heard of or saw Dumbo.
Speaker A:
Like, no.
Speaker B:
I was probably older than my grandparents.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Accurate.
Speaker A:
Which is crazy because the animation I feel like for the most part still holds up.
Speaker A:
Okay.
Speaker A:
Well, you're like, you could tell it wasn't made recently, but it doesn't look bad.
Speaker B:
Yeah, it still looks good.
Speaker A:
Yeah, it's like, dang, these guys, they knew what they were doing, man.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
No, I mean, Dumbo has been a classic for a long time.
Speaker A:
Even if you see like the Disney commercials, you know, you'll see like the Dumbo ride and stuff still featured.
Speaker A:
Like it's just a staple of Disney animation.
Speaker A:
I. I don't think we could overstate its importance.
Speaker A:
So I'm just not even gonna try.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
It's definitely in a weird spot because the time, like, it came out and then World War II.
Speaker B:
Like, World War II was already started, but, like, Dumbo came out right before the United States entered World War II.
Speaker B:
It's a weird.
Speaker B:
It's a whole weird thing.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Which the next one we'll do will be from then.
Speaker A:
The war era or.
Speaker A:
I forget exactly what they call it.
Speaker A:
The Patch film era.
Speaker A:
So something like that.
Speaker A:
But we're gonna talk about fun and fancy free.
Speaker A:
And that was made during the war.
Speaker A:
The war, somehow.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
It's.
Speaker A:
It's a crazy film.
Speaker A:
It's known for a lot of different stuff.
Speaker A:
It's weird watching it in today's world, I feel like.
Speaker A:
Because I think we watch it almost like a period piece, like, oh, this is what the circus was like back in the 40s.
Speaker A:
This was made in 41.
Speaker A:
This.
Speaker A:
This was just a modern tale when it was me.
Speaker A:
Like, this was life.
Speaker B:
Yeah, it's definitely.
Speaker B:
It's weird because it kind of reflects Disney's current practices.
Speaker B:
The, like, the reason they made Dumbo and their goals behind it, which is just crazy to think about because they weren't, at least at first, particularly concerned with some great feat of artistry or innovating in the space.
Speaker B:
At first, they just needed to make money because Pinocchio and Fantasia didn't, which is wild.
Speaker A:
It really is one of the most wild things.
Speaker A:
Because, like, looking at it from, like, in our own time era, like, that's just.
Speaker A:
That's what makes it so hard.
Speaker A:
It's like we don't get a lot of the context, I feel like, because Pinocchio now, if you, like, ask most animation people, there's a pretty strong chance they'll say that that is the pinnacle of animated film.
Speaker A:
Like, that is it.
Speaker A:
That's the goal was Pinocchio.
Speaker A:
It was incredible at the time.
Speaker A:
Didn't do so high.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
So looking back, it's just weird that it's like, Dubbo.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
That got it.
Speaker A:
Pinocchio nobody cared about.
Speaker A:
You're like, wait.
Speaker A:
Huh?
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Just crazy.
Speaker A:
And even, like, stuff now that we take for granted, like animal cruelty or, like, the circus being kind of weird, like, all this stuff.
Speaker A:
So we kind of look at it.
Speaker A:
We're like, oh, why they do this?
Speaker A:
Or the pink elephant scene?
Speaker A:
And we're all like, they just want to get trippy.
Speaker A:
But it's like, back then, it was like, no CGI and stuff.
Speaker A:
Wasn't a thing they were showing off.
Speaker A:
Nobody could do that scene.
Speaker A:
Only Disney could make that pink elephant scene.
Speaker A:
And they wanted to make sure you knew that.
Speaker B:
Yeah, it's really.
Speaker B:
It's insane because you could go on fiverr and hire somebody to.
Speaker B:
To make you that scene for like probably 50 bucks.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Modern technology.
Speaker A:
Not difficult back then.
Speaker A:
Doing it by hand.
Speaker A:
Insane.
Speaker A:
With that then, tj, could you possibly summarize the story of Walt Disney's Dumbo?
Speaker B:
So dumb.
Speaker B:
It almost feels silly to do this,.
Speaker A:
By the way, doesn't it?
Speaker B:
But if you've never heard of Dumbo or seen Dumbo.
Speaker B:
It's a story about a baby elephant.
Speaker B:
His name is Dumbo, but he is born into the circus with his circus mother.
Speaker B:
And he can fly.
Speaker B:
Turns out, special little guy.
Speaker B:
That's it.
Speaker B:
That's the whole thing.
Speaker B:
He can fly?
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
He's got big old ears and he uses him to fly.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
It's funny.
Speaker A:
The original Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer came out in 39.
Speaker A:
This is very similar in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:
It is.
Speaker A:
Baby's weird.
Speaker A:
Everybody makes fun of the baby.
Speaker A:
In the end, that weird little quirk ends up being white.
Speaker A:
He's cooler than everybody else.
Speaker A:
Kind of the same story.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
It's also weird to go back and watch Dumbo because it's short.
Speaker A:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:
So short.
Speaker A:
They supposedly they tried to get Walt to either make it longer or shorter.
Speaker A:
So they could either make it like a short plug or make it a full length movie.
Speaker A:
And he was like, no, can't make it any longer.
Speaker A:
That'll ruin it.
Speaker A:
And it deserves to be a movie.
Speaker A:
So I'm not gonna shorten it.
Speaker B:
Yeah, it's just right in that spot where it's like barely an hour, is like an hour, 10 minutes.
Speaker A:
It's crazy.
Speaker A:
Just weird.
Speaker B:
Watch you watch Dumbo like 20 times in a day.
Speaker A:
Most TV shows these day, I feel like are longer than that because they do that weird.
Speaker A:
Like 10 episodes and they're all like an hour and 20 minutes long.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Primetime TV or prestige television, whatever they call it.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Crazy.
Speaker A:
But yeah, so that, that's Dumbo, basically.
Speaker A:
Weird little baby.
Speaker A:
Everybody made fun of his mom tried to protect him from some of the bullies she got thrown in prison jail something.
Speaker A:
She got locked up in jail.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
And then in the end saves the circus.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
It's weird though because he doesn't fly until like 40 minutes into a 60 minute movie.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Everybody just keeps saying he can fly.
Speaker A:
We're like, okay, yeah, cool.
Speaker A:
He's gonna save the circus.
Speaker A:
And then he does.
Speaker A:
But it's like right at the end there.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
They came up with the gimmick and then they were just.
Speaker B:
They happened to be right.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Really lucky.
Speaker A:
And.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Like TJ said, too.
Speaker A:
What's interesting is, like, this one really relies on story because they don't lean into animation as much.
Speaker A:
So Snow White blew everybody away in the whole universe.
Speaker A:
It's insane.
Speaker A:
It's why Disney got the start.
Speaker A:
It did.
Speaker A:
Then you have Pinocchio, which was Pinocchio Fataja.
Speaker A:
Both incredible works of art.
Speaker A:
But at the time, they weren't like, you know, Rotten Tomatoes score probably would have been really high audience score.
Speaker A:
Not so much.
Speaker A:
Nobody cared.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
But so they were trying to do something easier that they weren't gonna have to spend a ton of money to be super innovative in.
Speaker A:
So they were just like, we'll do this cute little story.
Speaker A:
Won't do as much in animation.
Speaker A:
We'll make it more about the plot, the heart, talk about the mother and the child, and kind of pull on the emotional strings.
Speaker A:
Worked really well.
Speaker A:
Kind of has the.
Speaker A:
The lido and stitch effect of this will sell.
Speaker A:
They sold some Dumbo toys.
Speaker B:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:
They sold lots of Dumbo toys.
Speaker B:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:
And it's really smart, too, because, like, you can tell they.
Speaker B:
They got bored at some point and they were like, we should have at least one fun scene to work on.
Speaker B:
And that's why they did the dream sequence.
Speaker A:
But crazy.
Speaker B:
They, you know, right from the jump, they're like, okay, what's easy.
Speaker B:
Big animals, Elephants.
Speaker B:
Simple.
Speaker B:
They're just going to be gray until they're pink.
Speaker B:
But start to finish, they were just like, what makes this cheaper to produce?
Speaker B:
Because they spent the equivalent of like, $40 million to make Pinocchio.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Fantasia was like 2 million in their time.
Speaker A:
I don't remember what that would be in our time, but, like, this film was 900,000 or something to make.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Less than half of what it took him to make Fantasia.
Speaker A:
And did much better.
Speaker A:
From my recollection, I think in the Golden Era box office, the only ones that made profit was Snow White and then Dumbo, which is pretty nuts.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Absolutely nuts.
Speaker A:
Because I. I love Dumbo.
Speaker A:
By no means do I think he's one of the best Golden Era films, though.
Speaker A:
I just.
Speaker A:
Just isn't for me.
Speaker B:
No.
Speaker B:
But I do think maybe it's the only one that hasn't been bettered since then.
Speaker B:
There's not a better Dumbo movie.
Speaker B:
I think Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio is better than the original.
Speaker A:
I won't fight you on it.
Speaker A:
I think they might be tied for me.
Speaker A:
Just very different films.
Speaker A:
Hard to compare.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
I don't think Snow White's been bettered.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
True.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
I don't even know why you would.
Speaker A:
Try Fantasia might have been, though.
Speaker B:
Fantasia:
Speaker A:
Yeah, that one's good.
Speaker A:
But we digress.
Speaker A:
Yeah, the movie's good.
Speaker A:
Speak.
Speaker A:
Well, we might as well go ahead and do our ratings.
Speaker A:
As I mentioned, it's probably not my favorite in the golden era.
Speaker A:
Again, I do really like the film, so I have to remind everybody, zero to ten for me.
Speaker A:
Zero.
Speaker A:
I'm comparing to other Disney films, not just giving it a grade.
Speaker A:
So zero would be my least favorite Disney film, which is probably still going to be a movie I like better than most other movies.
Speaker A:
10 Is the best Disney film.
Speaker A:
It is exclusively reserved for Hercules and Jungle Book.
Speaker A:
For me, those are the only tens.
Speaker A:
I don't even like Jungle Book that much.
Speaker A:
I just think, objectively, such.
Speaker A:
Dumbo, I'm gonna give a five.
Speaker A:
I feel like it's just an average Disney film for me.
Speaker A:
I love it.
Speaker A:
But you could put in any Disney movie, and I also would be like, yeah, I love this.
Speaker A:
Let's watch this.
Speaker A:
You know?
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Six strong.
Speaker B:
I don't even know if it's a strong six.
Speaker B:
I have not once in my life been like, ooh, I should watch Dumbo.
Speaker A:
You know, I agree.
Speaker A:
You know, I think that's what it is.
Speaker A:
There's never been a time where I'm like, I want to watch Dumbo right now.
Speaker A:
But there's also never been a time that it's been on TV or suggested to me that I was like, no, I'm not watching that.
Speaker A:
Yeah, I watch it.
Speaker A:
If it's, you know, if it's there, like, hell, yeah, let's watch it.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
If, like.
Speaker B:
If I.
Speaker B:
If I'm like, at someone's.
Speaker B:
This is.
Speaker B:
This doesn't work anymore because no one has a DVD player anymore.
Speaker B:
But I was at a friend's house, and Dumbo was the closest thing to the DVD player I might put it in.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
That's the thing is, it's like, cable isn't a thing either.
Speaker A:
Like, it's not like I just turned the TV on and something's playing.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
But if for some reason, I turned Disney plus on and they had, like, Dumbo fly across for the plus sign, and then the big screen popped up.
Speaker A:
Dumbo, watch Dumbo.
Speaker A:
I'd be like, sure.
Speaker A:
I guess.
Speaker A:
Yeah, why not?
Speaker B:
That's pretty much what happened with this episode.
Speaker B:
Yeah, I'm right there.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
All right, so we'll talk some about the Art and animation.
Speaker A:
You mentioned some stuff already.
Speaker A:
Is there anything else that, like, really stood out to you that you want to shout out other than pink elephants was brilliant?
Speaker B:
Big Alpha is a classic.
Speaker B:
I just think less is more.
Speaker B:
This is the pinnacle of the saying, because they're really not going over the top.
Speaker B:
You know, simple animation cycles, simple loops, simple colors, Beautiful color palette which is, you know, just like everything else at the time from Disney at least.
Speaker B:
So, yeah, aesthetically, very easy to look at movie.
Speaker B:
Very fun to look at movies.
Speaker A:
Sometimes watercolor backgrounds are beautiful.
Speaker B:
Beautiful.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
So it's cool.
Speaker B:
It.
Speaker B:
There's, like, shades of future Disney innovation in Dumbo, but, you know, there was also shades of it in every other movie in the golden era, just because that's what they used as a template for Deep Canvas for Treasure Planet.
Speaker A:
I was just.
Speaker A:
I was waiting.
Speaker A:
Waiting for that.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
It's funny, too, because I was listening to another podcast talk about it, and they were like, Dumbo's like, they're like, what worked in our other films, and they just picked stuff.
Speaker A:
And then they made Dumbo and they were like, dopey was great.
Speaker A:
What if he was an elephant?
Speaker B:
Just.
Speaker A:
I loved that.
Speaker A:
Well, you know what?
Speaker A:
A little bit.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
So all of Disney's Nine Old Men classic animation team, they're still on board for.
Speaker A:
This is literally just the fourth film.
Speaker A:
So they're not really switching up much on who's animating, going back to some of the basic stuff.
Speaker A:
A lot of these animators were pretty prevalent when it was silent film era, so they're really good at, hey, we're going to draw some characters.
Speaker A:
They don't need to say anything.
Speaker A:
We'll let the art tell the story.
Speaker A:
They did a really good job with it.
Speaker A:
There's, you know, Disney's classic, what he calls plausible impossibilities with animation.
Speaker A:
He's like, yeah, we know this is impossible if you draw it in a way that feels natural to the animation.
Speaker A:
People just buy it, though.
Speaker A:
That's what they went with.
Speaker A:
They were like, we're just not going to bother explaining it.
Speaker A:
We're going to draw it in a way that feels natural in this world.
Speaker A:
And people roll with it.
Speaker A:
And they did.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
And it works every time.
Speaker B:
Also, I do think there is something to be said about how Dumbo really, to me, I think Disney's kind of lost the plot a little bit.
Speaker B:
Every movie has to appeal to the adult in some massive way, and Dumbo still does do that through sympathizing with Dumbo's mother.
Speaker B:
But having a Silent protagonist, I think, is massive for a kid because it's so easy to relate as a child to trying to have an impact on your world, and it feels like no one can hear what you're saying.
Speaker B:
And Dumbo is in the same boat.
Speaker B:
He doesn't say anything.
Speaker A:
It's crazy.
Speaker A:
Actually, what I read was Dumbo is the only protagonist in Disney animation, like, main character who just does not speak, which is wild.
Speaker A:
But also, I mean, it works.
Speaker A:
I never feel like I don't know what's going on with Dumbo.
Speaker B:
Mm.
Speaker B:
It's great.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
So some of the other, like, just history and stuff behind the film that I really like, too.
Speaker A:
Joe Grant and Dick humor were like, the artist storyboards, and Walt Disney, as it.
Speaker A:
As it goes, just kind of tired of making more films.
Speaker A:
He's like, we did incredible stuff with Pinocchio and Fantasia.
Speaker A:
No one cared.
Speaker A:
And he's just kind of a little bitter, a little upset, and wasn't buying anything.
Speaker A:
So, what, these two?
Speaker B:
Yeah, he was like, oh, movies suck.
Speaker B:
Let's build.
Speaker B:
Let's build roller coasters.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
He was just over it.
Speaker B:
Let's build robots.
Speaker A:
But Joe Grant and Dick humor, they started writing part of this story and just leaving parts of it on his desk so he would read part and be like, all right, so now what?
Speaker A:
And they strung him along until he was like, just.
Speaker A:
Just finish the story.
Speaker B:
Which is.
Speaker B:
Which is great.
Speaker B:
Which is really funny.
Speaker B:
Just.
Speaker A:
Yeah, funny.
Speaker A:
It's smart.
Speaker A:
But it's also like, it's just really funny.
Speaker A:
Double got made because Walt was like, I just want to know what happens.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
I mean, it's.
Speaker B:
It's.
Speaker B:
It's a classic.
Speaker B:
It still works to this day.
Speaker B:
You go on Twitter, you'll see someone post most of what you're reading in their first tweet, then you have to open it to read the next one.
Speaker A:
Oh, that's great.
Speaker A:
Also.
Speaker A:
So apparently this was, like, the original story was some kind of.
Speaker A:
It wasn't like a kid's book, was, like, a rolling thing.
Speaker A:
They were trying, like, new type of story, and apparently people at Disney thought the story was good, but did not care at all about that medium because they never do anything with it.
Speaker A:
But in the original, like, little booklet or whatever, it's a red bird, not a mouse.
Speaker A:
That's helping Dumbo.
Speaker A:
And Disney just decided, be a lot more ironic if it was a mouse.
Speaker A:
Yeah, they were right.
Speaker A:
They were right.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Still associated.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Glad it's not a red bird.
Speaker A:
Also, the fact that, like, the Timothy Q.
Speaker A:
Mouse looks so different From Mickey Mouse.
Speaker A:
Like the way that they just made Mickey Mouse and we're like, we're just gonna make a mouse gonna look absolutely nothing like the other mouse we made.
Speaker B:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:
They've got a clearly distinct mouse.
Speaker B:
And they do that again with rescuers.
Speaker A:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:
How many mice can they make that look completely different?
Speaker A:
Animated mice that you're like, that's definitely a mouse.
Speaker A:
It also looks nothing like that.
Speaker B:
It's definitely a mouse from Disney Animation Studios, but it is not one of the ones that I know.
Speaker A:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:
It's fantastic.
Speaker A:
And of course, you get a couple of the voice actors here that show up again.
Speaker A:
The first appearance of sterling Price.
Speaker A:
Holloway Jr.
Speaker A:
I guess, played the stork.
Speaker A:
He also goes on to play Ka in the Jungle Book, Cheshire Cat, and Alice in Wonderland, a few other big ones.
Speaker A:
Billy Bletcher, he was one of the clowns.
Speaker A:
He goes on to play Pete.
Speaker A:
Feel like old classic Disney Pete.
Speaker A:
Billy Bletcher started here as a clown, which apparently is the absolute lowest class in Dumbo.
Speaker A:
Being an elephant with huge ears.
Speaker A:
Getting made fun of, sure.
Speaker A:
But when they made him a clown, they were like, oh, man.
Speaker A:
Now he's really low class.
Speaker A:
That sucks.
Speaker A:
Clowns are the worst.
Speaker A:
They're below elephants, apparently, at the circus.
Speaker A:
What a pecking order.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Brutal.
Speaker B:
How far the jester has fallen.
Speaker A:
So, DJ if you had to pick a favorite scene, favorite song, and favorite character from Dumbo, where are you going?
Speaker B:
Character?
Speaker B:
Maybe the mouse.
Speaker B:
I'm a big fan of mice.
Speaker B:
Yeah, he's a fun little guy.
Speaker B:
Dumbo is the easy answer.
Speaker A:
That's not fun.
Speaker A:
Yeah, we can't say the main character.
Speaker B:
The song, probably the lullaby that Mrs. Jumbo sings to Dumbo.
Speaker B:
Baby's mine, I think is what it's called.
Speaker B:
But for her favorite scene, honestly, it might be that scene, too, where she's singing Baby's mind, if that doesn't count.
Speaker B:
Dumbo's first flight, of course.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah, it is.
Speaker A:
Baby mine.
Speaker A:
Baby mine.
Speaker A:
Okay.
Speaker A:
Favorite character.
Speaker A:
I was either gonna say the mouse or the mom.
Speaker A:
Jumbo, which, you know.
Speaker A:
Dumbo's real name is Jumbo Jr. Just want to point that out.
Speaker B:
Very true.
Speaker A:
No one ever calls him by his actual name anymore.
Speaker A:
That poor elephant.
Speaker A:
We all are the bullies, actually.
Speaker A:
All of us.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
If you had shorter hair, that's probably what they would call you.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
For those who don't know, I do have huge ears.
Speaker A:
And so does every gnoll, for some reason.
Speaker A:
Just family trait.
Speaker A:
I'm not the worst, luckily.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
This is not on video, so that people don't notice that well.
Speaker A:
Also got headphones on.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
I super hide it also, conveniently.
Speaker A:
I think since you said the mouse, I'm gonna say the mom Jumbo for my favorite character.
Speaker A:
Just because the way she's protective of her baby and loves it no matter what and everything.
Speaker A:
And I'm like, yeah, I know every mom would do that.
Speaker A:
Doesn't mean I still don't love her for it, you know?
Speaker A:
And honestly, they lock her up for, like, doing what she did to that kid.
Speaker A:
But I think she was right.
Speaker B:
Deserved it.
Speaker A:
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:
So that's favorite character, favorite song.
Speaker A:
Guys, I'm gonna go.
Speaker A:
Pink elephants on parade.
Speaker A:
I actually just think it's so much fun.
Speaker A:
Like, it's crazy.
Speaker A:
Like, the animation, everything is wild, but, like, the actual song is actually pretty catchy.
Speaker A:
And then favorite scene, I think when Dumbo loses the feather and he still flies.
Speaker A:
Like, I know that's like the cheesy, easy answer, but I love it.
Speaker A:
I'm like, yeah, it was in you all along.
Speaker A:
Dumbo.
Speaker A:
Way to go.
Speaker B:
Way to go, kid.
Speaker B:
Also, it makes it, like, way weirder.
Speaker B:
It's like, yeah, like the magic feather help making him fly.
Speaker B:
That's weird.
Speaker B:
But the elephant can just fly.
Speaker B:
That's weirder.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Big ears.
Speaker A:
He had big ears.
Speaker A:
You'd get it.
Speaker B:
Yeah, maybe so.
Speaker B:
I don't.
Speaker A:
You should see my dog, Gopper.
Speaker A:
He's a beagle.
Speaker A:
All beagles fly.
Speaker A:
Known fact.
Speaker B:
That is true.
Speaker B:
I think I've seen him do that at least once.
Speaker A:
So it's actually really funny.
Speaker A:
I have little videos of him as a puppy when he would jump off the couch, and his ears are so big, they would, like, fly up.
Speaker A:
That was his Dumbo moment.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
But other places you can find the character.
Speaker A:
There's a lot of places you can find Dumbo characters, just in general, actually.
Speaker A:
Of course, the Disney park rides.
Speaker A:
You have the little Dumbo carousel.
Speaker A:
You can ride on Dumbo.
Speaker A:
Originally, it was going to be the pink elephants, and then Walt was like, why would people want to do that when they could just ride Dumbo, the main character who could fly?
Speaker B:
Which is a good point.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
And of course, it has the Timothy Mouse is in the center, like, orchestrating all the Dumbos.
Speaker A:
And, you know, it's fun.
Speaker A:
You can go through the circus.
Speaker A:
It's funny now because you go to Disney World, and it's like the whole back is like a fake circus.
Speaker A:
And I feel like half the kids are like, what's a circus?
Speaker A:
You know?
Speaker B:
Yeah, any.
Speaker B:
Any kid younger than me has just Never been to a circus.
Speaker B:
Probably never seen a circus.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Like, what are you talking about?
Speaker A:
But that's, like, a whole part of the park.
Speaker A:
Just because of Dumbo.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Like, I've been to a circus once, maybe twice.
Speaker A:
You know, me too, actually.
Speaker A:
I have not gone to that many, but I don't go to, like, state fairs and stuff either.
Speaker A:
Just not.
Speaker A:
Not my scene, but original Kingdom Hearts.
Speaker A:
Dumbo's a summon and actually one of my favorites because, like, he doesn't do a lot of extra stuff, but just squirting water and flying around.
Speaker A:
That's.
Speaker A:
That's all I wanted.
Speaker B:
That's all I need.
Speaker B:
Thank you.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Also, Tina Hearts, Chain of memories.
Speaker A:
You get three of them, stack them together for a combo.
Speaker A:
That was actually one of the best cards you could do because, like, nobody wanted that summon, so it didn't cost as much to have it in your deck.
Speaker A:
Cheap, easy summon.
Speaker A:
It's excellent.
Speaker A:
Yeah, but this isn't Kingdom Hearts episode.
Speaker A:
I just got to point that out.
Speaker A:
It's a good strategy.
Speaker A:
There's a toy Dumbo in the Great Mouse Detective.
Speaker A:
I found out.
Speaker A:
I didn't know that.
Speaker A:
Used to be in the fireworks.
Speaker A:
Sometimes instead of Tinkerbell, they would have Dumbo fly down the wire.
Speaker A:
So that's kind of cool.
Speaker B:
Really sweet.
Speaker A:
Yeah, that'd be.
Speaker A:
Actually, I would love to see that.
Speaker B:
I would love to be fun.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Like, the problem.
Speaker B:
Like, I would love to see it, because I've seen the fireworks show before, and I probably will again, but it'd feel bad.
Speaker A:
It was the only time you saw.
Speaker A:
You saw that set at Tink.
Speaker A:
That would be kind of.
Speaker B:
It'd be a little annoying.
Speaker A:
Although I do think, objectively, Dumbo's a better character than Tinkerbell.
Speaker A:
It's just iconic, you know, the whole scene with Tink is iconic.
Speaker A:
Yeah, that's the problem.
Speaker A:
It's not Dumbo's fault.
Speaker A:
But there's also an old computer game called Disney Villains Revenge, and for some reason, one of the main villains is the circus owner of Dumbo.
Speaker A:
It wasn't even really that bad a guy, honestly.
Speaker B:
Yeah, he abused all those animals, I guess.
Speaker A:
But, like, and the film, that was just, like, taken for granted.
Speaker A:
So I'm like, why?
Speaker A:
Why you made him the bad guy?
Speaker B:
Well, the film was, like, 80 years old.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker A:
True.
Speaker B:
This film was 85 years ago.
Speaker A:
That's wild.
Speaker A:
Anything any other places you can think of where you see the characters that we need to.
Speaker A:
Yeah, they're everywhere.
Speaker A:
They just are.
Speaker A:
If you want to find Dumbo you'll find Dumbo.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Go to your state fair.
Speaker B:
There's a good chance you might see Dumbo.
Speaker A:
So true.
Speaker A:
Oh, man.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
And I think as far as, like, plot and, like, the theme of the film and stuff, I do think it's very clearly leaning more on, you know, sometimes we're born different and our differences can actually be our strengths.
Speaker A:
And I think that's a really good message.
Speaker A:
But even, like, for its time, there does seem to be some, like, hints at other stuff that they never quite get into.
Speaker A:
And I think that's something that irks me a little bit because, like, it seems like whoever made this film was aware that how the animals treated weren't great.
Speaker A:
You do have, literally, a crow in the film called Jim Crow.
Speaker B:
That's true.
Speaker A:
That exists.
Speaker A:
And there's just some stuff where you're like, I think they knew that some of this wasn't okay when they made the film.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
I don't know.
Speaker B:
It needed to be popular to people that had money to see movies and time to see movies.
Speaker B:
So.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
And, you know, I hear the crows had, like, kind of a mixed reception.
Speaker A:
It's mostly now we look back at it as, like, that was bad, obviously, but even, like, how the animals and stuff were, like.
Speaker A:
There was just little jokes here and there.
Speaker A:
There was something about how they're not getting paid good enough, which apparently was also.
Speaker A:
Walt wanted that included as kind of a joke because it was during one of the big animation strikes where animators were like, we don't get paid enough.
Speaker A:
And Walt was like, let's make fun of that.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Disney's not been a great company.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
I mean, it has its ups and downs.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
But I don't think any of that was really the meaning of the film.
Speaker A:
I think the message of the film was just trying to kind of.
Speaker A:
Sometimes your wicked quirks are your strings.
Speaker A:
Pretty straightforward.
Speaker A:
Sometimes you just need a straightforward little.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Standard.
Speaker B:
Different kid.
Speaker B:
Still.
Speaker B:
Still good person thing.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
But as far as, like, the other stuff goes, obviously, we know it hasn't aged well, but how do you take that?
Speaker A:
When we go back, we're watching a movie from the 40s.
Speaker A:
I don't hold it to the same standard, but I also am like, I'm not gonna say that this is okay just because it was done that long ago, but I think usually that little, like, disclaimer of, like, hey, it was wrong then, it's wrong now.
Speaker A:
It was a movie.
Speaker A:
It was product of the time.
Speaker A:
I kind of okay with that.
Speaker A:
But for you Is there anything like you hesitate watching this stuff or see?
Speaker B:
No, not at all.
Speaker B:
Problematic media is still media and has other merits outside of that, while still able to acknowledge the fact that maybe our creators had some issues that they needed to work out.
Speaker B:
However, Casablanca was also.
Speaker B:
Was made a year after this.
Speaker B:
So it's not really fair to be like, oh, it's 85 years old.
Speaker B:
You know, don't expect that much of it.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Because there was some.
Speaker A:
There's some stuff back then.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
I mean, I don't think Casablanca is a great movie.
Speaker B:
Don't kill me.
Speaker B:
But like, the standard for film has kind of always been high.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker A:
I think what's interesting to me looking back at Dumbo too, is, like, in the animation, the elephants are helping build the circus.
Speaker A:
They're part of it.
Speaker A:
They're also making fun of Dumbo, so they're humanized to a point where it doesn't feel like, oh, these are just animals, and they're just mistreating them.
Speaker A:
It feels like they're a part of the circus.
Speaker A:
Which I think is supposed to be kind of the narrative it's telling.
Speaker A:
I don't think it's trying to make a commentary on.
Speaker A:
It's okay to treat things this way.
Speaker A:
The crows, however, I do think they were making a commentary and they were.
Speaker A:
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:
Also abusing animals is bad, but animal labor is, like, really cool.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
Like, if you could do it alongside them, put up a tent, that'd be awesome.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker A:
If I get an elephant to help me do anything, as long as it's not from me mistreating it, I'm not, you know, I'm not above that.
Speaker B:
That'd be so cool.
Speaker A:
Be like, yo, elephant, you want to help me roll some burritos today at work?
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
And I bet they would.
Speaker A:
You know, I don't think the health department would love it, but what are they going to do?
Speaker A:
Can't wear me and my elephant.
Speaker B:
They can wear, like an elbow length glove.
Speaker A:
Yeah, yeah, it'll be fine.
Speaker A:
But, yeah, all in all, I think the movie's endearing.
Speaker A:
There's some problematic things.
Speaker A:
Overall, message was good.
Speaker A:
It's just, I don't know, it's just another Disney film for me.
Speaker A:
I love it.
Speaker A:
I love all Disney films.
Speaker A:
But is there anything for you that they could have done to make it better or that they could incorporate more in the parks?
Speaker A:
Or are you just content Dumbo how it is, how it's used?
Speaker A:
Everything's fine.
Speaker B:
Yeah.
Speaker B:
I think Dumbo is just Dumbo.
Speaker A:
Literally.
Speaker A:
My only thought is, dumbo should have been in Kingdom Hearts 2 and 3, and when I summon him, I should be able to just fly around however I want.
Speaker B:
Yeah, you should be able to ride Dumbo.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
Kingdom Hearts 4 should go to Dumbo's world.
Speaker A:
Why not?
Speaker B:
I don't think that'd be that fun,.
Speaker A:
You know, and then Dumbo would be there for some reason.
Speaker B:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:
All right.
Speaker A:
Well, it's gonna be a little bit of a shorter one, but I think that's really all I have to say about Dumbo.
Speaker A:
It's a shorter movie, so I feel like it's fitting.
Speaker A:
Yeah.
Speaker A:
All right, so we'll go ahead and start wrapping this one up.
Speaker A:
Our bonus question will be a little bit longer, though, than our usual bonus questions.
Speaker A:
Probably.
Speaker A:
Probably won't be super long, but, you know, longer than the two minutes you usually get.
Speaker A:
Tim Burton remake of Dumbo in:
Speaker A:
Spoiler.
Speaker A:
We already said that Dumbo hasn't been done better.
Speaker B:
We did.
Speaker A:
There is a little bit of a spoiler, but we're still gonna review it.
Speaker B:
Cheeky.
Speaker B:
Cheeky little nod at this question.
Speaker A:
We're just gonna review it.
Speaker A:
But first, recommendations.
Speaker A:
Tj, you have any recommendations for those listening?
Speaker B:
I'm out.
Speaker B:
I'm all out of recommendations.
Speaker B:
I cannot recommend that anyone gets into Magic the Gathering.
Speaker B:
You could Financially irresponsible.
Speaker B:
If you haven't seen Project Hail Mary, go watch that great movie.
Speaker B:
It's on streaming now.
Speaker A:
Oh, is it?
Speaker A:
Where?
Speaker B:
I'm not sure.
Speaker B:
I just know it's on streaming.
Speaker A:
I saw it somewhere.
Speaker B:
Also, Marty supreme movie that I like a lot because I like ping pong a lot.
Speaker A:
You know, that makes me want to check it out.
Speaker A:
Actually, I. I'm gonna stay relevant.
Speaker A:
Not because I have to, just because I want to.
Speaker A:
Disney's villainous card game.
Speaker A:
Incredible.
Speaker A:
A lot of really good characters, including Radagast you can play as Radagast.
Speaker A:
Crazy Dodger Facilier.
Speaker A:
That's a great game.
Speaker A:
I highly, highly recommend playing as a Little John Prince.
Speaker A:
John.
Speaker A:
Little John, Little Johnny plays them both.
Speaker A:
Great time.
Speaker A:
All right, guys, with that, I want to thank.
Speaker A:
Well, want to ask everybody if you can rate and review our show wherever you get your podcast, Apple podcast, Spotify, wherever helps algorithms think the show is important, which helps other people find the show, which helps us.
Speaker A:
So we really appreciate you taking a couple seconds to rate and review wherever you're listening.
Speaker A:
Also want to shout out one of our financial sponsors.
Speaker A:
Today we're shouting out Austin, Nance.
Speaker A:
Austin, you rock, dude.
Speaker A:
Go get you one of these shirts.
Speaker A:
Why haven't you got a shirt yet, Austin?
Speaker A:
Yeah, Austin, let me, let me Send me your size and stuff if you listen to this episode and I'll send you the shirt.
Speaker A:
That's how I'm testing if you're listening or not.
Speaker A:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:
Also want to remind our listeners, you get your own shout out like Austin and maybe your own free shirt by becoming an official member of Systematic Geek.
Speaker A:
You can do that going to our website.
Speaker A:
There's a link in the description.
Speaker A:
You can also use that link to find some free extra content on the website.
Speaker A:
Buy merch yourself, leave a one time financial gift, all kinds of other stuff without becoming a member if that's not your thing.
Speaker A:
So still check out the website.
Speaker A:
It's totally worth your time.
Speaker A:
Again, it's part of our Disney era series.
Speaker A:
The third film we did in golden era.
Speaker A:
We're leaving the golden era behind.
Speaker A:
Starting to get near the end of this series.
Speaker A:
So be a great, great time.
Speaker A:
Find the link down in the show's description, hit that playlist.
Speaker A:
Listen to the other episodes in the series.
Speaker A:
It's been a lot of fun so far.
Speaker A:
I think it will be as we do.
Speaker A:
Think we got two more.
Speaker A:
Two more before the series is over.
Speaker A:
So they're gonna be fun ones.
Speaker A:
And remember guys, we are all a chosen people, a geekdom of Priest.
