Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell dive into the enchanting underwater world of Disney Pixar's "Luca," exploring the themes of friendship, identity, and the longing for acceptance. Right off the bat, they highlight how this film stands out as a beacon of creativity in the often formulaic landscape of animation, especially as part of the COVID era releases that might've slipped under the radar. With a vibrant setting in a quaint Italian town, "Luca" tells the story of two sea monsters navigating the complexities of youth and the human experience while hiding their true selves from a world that fears them. The duo reflects on their personal connections to the film, its memorable characters, and the clever humor that makes it a delightful watch, even if it sometimes feels like it got overshadowed by its predecessors. As they unpack the narrative and artistry behind "Luca," listeners can expect a relaxed yet insightful conversation that might just inspire a rewatch or two!

Diving into the vibrant waters of Disney Pixar's 'Luca,' Joshua Noel and TJ Blackwell explore the film's enchanting blend of adventure, friendship, and self-discovery. Set against the picturesque backdrop of an Italian seaside town, 'Luca' tells the story of two young sea monsters who transform into humans when they emerge from the water. This episode of Systematic Geekology is a delightful concoction of casual banter and insightful analysis as Joshua and TJ reminisce about their first impressions of the film, share anecdotes about their own experiences, and discuss the broader implications of the themes presented in 'Luca.' They dissect the nuances of friendship, the struggle for acceptance, and the importance of embracing one's identity, all while maintaining a lighthearted tone that keeps the conversation engaging. Through their witty exchanges and clever observations, the hosts highlight how 'Luca' resonates with audiences, particularly in the context of the COVID era, where many have felt isolated and yearned for connection. The episode encapsulates the essence of 'Luca'—a heartwarming tale that champions the spirit of adventure and the courage to be oneself, making it a must-listen for Disney fans and animation enthusiasts alike.

Takeaways:

• In this episode, they explore how 'Luca' reflects themes of friendship and identity while bridging the gap between human and monster worlds.
• Both Joshua and TJ share their personal connections to 'Luca', highlighting how it resonates differently with them, from nostalgia to newfound appreciation.
• The discussion dives into the film's artistic style, revealing its painterly approach and how it deviates from typical Pixar aesthetics, making it unique.
• As they dissect the characters, they emphasize the depth of Alberto's emotional journey, showing how friendship can be both uplifting and toxic.
• The podcast emphasizes 'Luca's' overlooked brilliance, suggesting that its streaming success doesn't negate its artistic merits, despite pandemic-related challenges.
• Listeners are encouraged to reflect on the film's messages about acceptance and understanding differences, making it a valuable conversation starter.

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Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, sea monsters, fishermen and athletes of all ages, we welcome you all to the wonderful world of Disney Pixar's animation studios. This is our second film in the made up Covid era of Disney and Disney Pixar animation that we're going to be discussing today.

We're going to be talking about the, the film Luca. And I am so excited for this. I, Joshua Knoll, local resident, Diz Nerd, here with the one and only one who makes podcasts possible.

Pot almighty TJ Tyberry is one. Blackwell. How's it going? Good. Yeah? Yeah. Halfway through the beginning, TJ said let there be podcasts and said it was all right.

You just don't get that in the sequel to Genesis, you know? Yeah, but it's, it's there.

Yeah, there's a, there's a book in between. Genesisitis.

Yeah. So excited to get into this. But first, tj, we gotta talk a little bit about what we've been kicking out on lately.

You wanna mention anything toward your listeners here?

Breaking Bad. Yeah, I started watching Breaking Bad and it's. It's just as good as everyone, everyone says it is.

So I still haven't seen it. So I have no commentary. Just assume I put a bad opinion in here, though. Just assume there was one.

Also, I've been ruminating on the. On the fact that I should have gotten some wider rimmed glasses.

I mean, I think they look nice.

Yeah. But it's really easy to smudge them.

Oh, yeah, makes sense. I am geeking out still on Mass Effect. I underestimated how long it was going to take me to play through all these games.

And I forgot a lot about these games because I'm old.

Yeah.

And now I'm just too invested.

Who did? So who choose? Ashley or Kaden? Mass Effect 1.

I sent Ashley off.

Good.

She pissed me off. She made me so mad.

Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, so that's what I've been doing. Yeah. Just really, really ask that.

Still watching like Scrubs and stuff too, but mostly just Mass Effect these days.

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Like Daniel, you can become an official member of Systematic Ecology using the website link that's in the show's description. Same website. You can also get free extra content. You can buy merch, you can leave a one time financial gift.

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There's plenty there that I think is well worth everyone's time, if nothing else, to look at it and be like, wow, Josh is bad at designing a website that might be fun. And I mentioned before, this is going to be our second film we've covered in the COVID era of Disney animation.

This is just some films that we, I feel like kind of got overlooked due to pandemic stuff related things. So we already did Onward. Today we're going to do Luca. I think next up is Raya if I'm remembering right.

And then we're gonna go back to the golden era for one last round of a couple other movies to end out the series. So it's been a lot of fun doing this. Appreciate you guys time those who've been following along from the beginning. You're the real OGs. Yeah.

But today jumping into Luca Luca is an amazing film.

It's just about some sea monsters who when they're on land and they're dry, look like regular humans and in a town where the humans are scared of sea monsters, want to kill the sea monsters and a couple boys are kind of basically hiding out as humans because they want to see the world outside of what they've known more or less. I think that's a fair beginning description. We'll get more into it here in a minute.

But first tj, I want to hear some of what your relationship this film's like when you first saw it, what some of your memories with characters. It's not super old film so probably not done.

But yeah, yeah, this is, you know, one of the more recent ones. I mean it's, it's not even five years old yet but I watched it a little while after it came out on Disney plus.

It's not something that's like been there for me, you know. Like, it is a really good movie, but it's not, like, formative in any way, which is different than nostalgic.

So I don't know, I just think it's really good. It's not like one of the pillars of Pixar or anything. To me, it is very overlooked. Very overlooked. It's just a movie that I like to watch.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we're going to be a little different on this one because I'm. I do think this is going to be one of the pillars of Pixar.

This, to me, is going to define where Pixar goes. We're talking about it a little bit later on, but I'm like, originally this was just like a chill movie. Like, it came out. I like the vibe.

I like the music and everything that, like, the art is just soothing in a way. So it was a very good, soothing film to just kind of have on. And I've always loved it. I watch it pretty regularly.

This is another one of those that I just have on in the background when I'm editing podcast or whatever.

And the research for this episode, which has taken a couple weeks, surprising Leicas sicknesses and such, I've discovered that I don't just like this movie, I love it. And I'm thrilled by everything that went behind it because it gives me a lot of hope for where Pixar might go next.

So, yeah, I think originally, before doing my research, I probably would have rated this a little lower than Onward. That's not where I end up after I've studied stuff.

I don't know. I do still think Onward is better.

Onwards. Good.

But this, I mean, craft wise, I would say Luca Luke is way up there.

Yeah.

If they had to choose one, I would hope that they choose Luca as, like, this is what we're working towards.

Yeah, yeah. But we're gonna get more soul.

I would choose Soul, but that's not what we're talking about.

Soul's good too, though, but not what I want anyway. But I'm excited for this. It's interesting, though, when we talk about, like, how the film's been received so far. So.

And this is where I'm like, overlooked question mark. It is going to get its own attraction in Disneyland Paris. It has several attractions in some of the Disney cruises I'll mention a little bit later.

But, like, it's not like it's overlooked. It was the biggest animated streaming hit of the year.

But even, like, right now, Hopper just came out and they're talking about how, like, this is Pixar's biggest film since Coco. And it's like, you look at why they're saying that. They're talking about the box office.

And I'm like, well, yeah, Onward and Luca both didn't have great box office numbers because Onward was only kind of in theaters. And Luca didn't go to theater at all because Pandemic, of course, there wasn't box office hits.

You know, like, seems unfair to judge it off that criteria.

It's a little. It's a bit unfair.

Yeah. But overall, streaming, it was a big hit.

One of the things, it's interesting that Onward kind of got hit from the conservatives of like, oh, that girl said she had a girlfriend.

Luca.

I didn't hear much retaliation in that way because there wasn't anything blatant. But then you had a lot of the progressives who praise it because it's like, oh, this is lgbtq. Conservatives just seem to just.

Yeah.

Act like that's not there or ignore it.

Yeah, it's easy to do. Yeah, it's really easy to just look at, like, yeah, that's just two kids. But there was a bunch of people.

When it came out, I was like, oh, look at them. They're so little and gay.

Yeah. Like, it took me a couple watches to see what they were even talking about. Like, they're not. What are you talking about?

And then I was like, oh, okay, I see what they're talking about. It's just like that weird pre pubescent age where it's like, even if you just like girls, it's like, it's not the same, you know? Yeah, yeah.

They're still kind of figuring out who they are.

And it is a bit of a metaphor that can be interpreted different ways, which I think arts at its best when it's a little open interpretation like that, you know?

I agree.

Yeah. So, dj, could you summarize kind of the story, the plot, what happens in the movie? Luca.

So Luca is about Luca. Keep up. Complicated naming scheme Pixar's got going on.

But Lucas, a sea monster off the coast of Italy, and the town Portorosso, which, like a lot of small towns still is, like, heavy in its mythology. They still believe in sea monsters, which is good because they're real and he wants to just live. He wants to see what's on the surface.

And he meets Alberto, who mostly lives on the surface, was also a sea monster. So Alberto kind of leads Luca to the surface. He becomes human for the first time, and then they kind of get caught up.

Well, Louis kind of gets caught up in Alberto's dream of going out in the world. And they do share that dream, but it kind of changes over time because this is a great movie with great characters.

Yeah.

And they meet that little girl, Julia. Juliet.

Julia. Yeah, you're right. Spellings with a G. That threw me off.

Yeah, it's the Italian version of Julia, but. And they get caught up in her dream, which is winning the. Oh, what is the race called?

Triathlon thing.

It's sort of a triathlon. It's not. It is three events, but one of them's eating pasta because it's Italy.

It's sponsored by a pasta company, so they go for a swim, eat a bowl of pasta, and then bike up and down a hill, big hill. And through it, Alberto and Luca kind of confront their issues, confront their dream, and bounce off of each other and off of the dream.

And it's just. It's real good. It's a real good movie. It's heartwarming and heartbreaking at times. Mm. It's also got a lot of really good gags in it. Really good.

Really does. It's great.

Really good gags in it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, summarize.

They. They want a Vespa. Yeah, that's it. It's two boys who really want to buy a Vespa. Yeah.

Bad summary, that. That would be the bad version. It's just two boys.

One of the boys want a Vespa, two boys want a Vespa, and a girl wants to win a race.

Yeah, they, like.

So there was some, like, advertisement for Vespas that Alberto found that was like, they can get you anywhere in the world, and that's what he wants to do. So he's convinced that they have to have a Vespa.

So him and Luca are trying to enter this race so they can get enough money to get a Vespa, and the girl wants to win for I don't remember what reason. Honestly, Julia wants to win.

Be better than.

Oh, yeah, there's a jerk. His name is Jerk.

Yeah.

There's a lot of layers. Like, there's a lot of different motivations, I feel like.

I mean, they have their main motivations, but then you also see where, like, I think Alberto and Luca form a friendship that's kind of around this whole, like, they just don't want to be constrained to their family that, you know, they're trying to become their own person, coming of age kind of story. And then Julia has this, like, she loves the cosmos, the stars. She is little Will rose. And Luca sees that and is like, wait a minute.

Stars are freaking cool. Tell me more about. And he gets like, sucked in. Is like, I want to go to school now. I want to do this too. This is awesome.

And yeah, and that's kind of what I was talking about. So, like, they do have the same dream. And then Lucas dream changes. Because what he really wanted was to know more about the world the whole time.

Yeah.

Which Alberto just wants to not be in Portorosso where he was abandoned by his father.

Yeah. Like, I feel like Alberto wants to be needed. I think that's a lot of his thing. It's like he wants.

He likes that Luca needs him to learn how to be a human. Needs him to like, do these things.

Then when Luca starts going to Julia instead, he gets really jealous because, like, he feels like he's not wanted, he's not needed because his dad abandoned him. So then you get to like, part of the crux of the film. They end up getting wet and everybody sees that they're actually sea monsters and Julia's dead.

Massimo, who is a known sea monster hunter, hates sea monsters. Like, the whole town's going about to kill Luke and Alberto because it turns out they're sea monsters. We got to kill him.

And Massimo is this giant man of a man who speaks approximately as much as TJ and just goes, I know who they are. Calls them by name. Doesn't say, these are my sons or anything. Like the cheesy normal Disney thing. He's just like, they are their own people.

Like, he sees them for them and he stands up. And there's not a single person in that town who's willing to say he's wrong.

Yeah, he's huge. Yeah, he has one arm and it's really big.

He's just a massive human. And like, and we're gonna get to this later too. But like, I can't. Like so many Pixar's. Like, we talked with Onward.

Like so much of his, like, family related. Like the dad died, this happened. Like, that's usually the big emotional moment for me in this film. The big emotional moment.

Alberto we mentioned, abandoned by his dad, has a falling out with Luca because Luca now wants to be friends with Giulia. And Alberto can't handle that. So they have a whole falling out because of jealousy. Whatever. And again, maybe it's also like a queer thing.

We're not really sure. Could be romantic love in there a little bit. But anyway, Alberto feels abandoned again. I think rightfully so. What? Luca. Luca went Too far.

But anyway, Massimo just finds out that Alberto's not there on the run. He's going to make dinner for them all. And they're like, oh, well, this without, like, no thought at all.

He just immediately grabbed the stuff and he's heading out. He's gonna go find. Alberto does not care at all. This is not his son, by the way.

This is some kid that's a friend of his daughters that he met like a week ago.

He's like, yeah, he does make him a lot of money, though.

That's true. But it was so fun. Like, to me, the moment that, like, I tear up at, though, is Julia looks at her dad and goes, wait, he doesn't want to be found.

And Maximo straight up was maybe not. Doesn't mean I can't try.

And I'm like, well, I don't know, because, like, to me, that's like, you know, leaving the 99 for the 1 that's like the God, like what I think of Jesus, like, that's. That's it, man. It's the.

It's so good.

Yeah. Maybe he doesn't want to be found. I'm a go look anyway.

Yeah. Doesn't mean I'm not going to find him.

Yeah.

He imagine, like, it wasn't like he was going to drag Alberto back home, but he's like, I'm at least let him know if someone's looking for him, he's going to know somebody cares. And that. I don't know still. I still tear up on that one. It's a good one.

Yeah. And there's a few moments in Luca that are like, that. They're very poignant. Especially at the time, a lot of people were dealing with isolation.

And I feel like Alberto was a much more relatable character for a lot of people just because of the nature of the world at the time. But, man, the one two punch of Luca betraying Alberto and Massimo not Mossimo dedicating himself to Alberto. So good.

Yeah.

Which I think also makes, like, the end of the film even more impactful because, like, at the time, you're like, oh, well, he's only doing that because he doesn't know Alberto is actually a sea monster. But then when it turns out they're revealed to be sea monsters, he's still the first one that's. I know who they are.

And I can't, like, I have to reiterate, like, the fact that he. I love that he didn't go, these are my sons or something. Like, you know, like, the Normal thing. He's like, this is Luca and Alberto.

Because I think in a story that's like, coming of age and them figuring out who they are in a world where, like, they feel, you know, Luca's been. His parents are kind of over controlling. He's been kind of, like, locked in that way. Alberto's been abandoned. Like, they have their own journeys.

And instead of being like, oh, these are mine, he's like, no, I see them as themselves. And then, oh, no, that was huge. I like that a lot.

Yeah.

All right, zero to ten. Tj, how are you gonna rate Luca?

Probably eight. No, eight and a half.

All right. And again, I have to, like, clarify for mine. I'm rating it against all Disney, all Pixar. So 5 is average for a Disney Pixar film.

Anything above 5 is saying it is better than that. So with Onward, I gave it a six or seven. Originally, I was gonna put this a little bit lower than that. I was thinking, like, 5ish.

After studying, seeing as much as I did, and really thinking more about the film, because for the most part, again, because it came out during COVID I didn't see it in the theater. It's been more of a cozy film, but actually taking the time to watch it and really consume it, I'm putting it a little above Onward for me.

So I'm gonna put it like a seven or eight. So I'm gonna give it like a seven and a half. Maybe. Maybe an eight. I really like this film. The more I watch it, the more I like it. It grows on you.

Yeah. Like algae.

I don't know why. I was really hoping you were gonna say that or Barticles.

Yeah.

Good stuff. So actual art and animation stuff. You mentioned the gags earlier. Do you want to expound on that any? Because I did like the gags.

There's just a few good ones. And not even just animation wise, writing wise, there's a few good ones. You know, Massimo and Alberto are, like, out fishing. And.

And Luka, who's there for this part.

Yeah.

And, you know, they're looking at his arm. He's just a huge man with one arm. And they're like, oh, how'd that happen? And it's, like, building the tension. And you're like, okay, here it is.

They're gonna say it was a sea monster. And he's like, I was born this way. Yeah, good. Without it.

At the end of the movie, the actual climax of the movie, Luca's parents come to the service to look for him. And it's raining. It's bad. Luca and Alberto are both exposed at this point. And here come Luca's parents now.

There's four sea monsters in the middle of the town, and Mossimo is kind of protecting them. Not physically, but, you know.

Yeah.

And then once the town is just like, all right, I guess sea monsters are people. Now. The two crotchety old ladies that just kind of wander around town, take their hoods off and they're also sea monsters.

Yeah. Which I think does add more credence to the whole. This is a metaphor for, like, queer affirming stuff. Because it's like, that was definitely a thing.

Those two old ladies you knew that were, like, really good friends a lot. A lot of the time that that was a thing, you know?

And Luca's grandma, throughout the movies just kind of like, yeah, I've been to the surface. I love it up there. And then at the end of the movie, she just kind of shows up to eat dinner. Yeah. Like, grandma, what are you doing here?

She's like, I come up here sometimes.

Yeah, no biggie.

It's no big deal.

Yeah, no big deal. The animation gags I obviously love.

I've talked about this before with early Disney, how I really want them to get back to this kind of stuff because, like, to me, that's what makes animation so much fun, is you could just do silly gags and, like, fun stuff like that. And the director of this film very much agreed with me, and he took a lot of inspiration from some of the Looney Tune creators.

And two of my favorite moments like this is whenever Lucas first trying to learn how to be, like, stand upright as a human, and he's flopping like a fish out of water. It's like, that was great. And then there's a kind of a bike accident crash thing with Alberto. Instead of having birds around his head, he had fish.

Like, that's great. I just love little. Little animation gags. Just bring me joy.

I do also love Alberto's interpretation of the stars. Not because it's gag, just because it calls to, like, just like in folklore, indigenous folklore. And he's like, oh, those. Those are little fish.

Those are fish in the sky.

Yeah, why wouldn't they be?

Yeah. Like, the aboriginal myth for stars is also connected to the first didgeridoo.

Nice fun fact.

This is a cool story. I don't know it's entirety. Yeah, it's over there. But the.

I don't remember their names, but a shaman blew the termites out of a termite infested log and they flew up to the sky and became the stars and the log became the first ditch redo. Nice.

I believe that that sounds like a true story.

Yeah, that's what they are.

Yeah. Yeah. Other cool medieval ish things, though. They.

The inspiration for, like, how they design the sea monsters, like, actually came from, like, sketches from, like, Renaissance, medieval, Italian stuff, which is super cool. He took a lot of inspiration from Ghibli films and how they do their. Which again, speaks to like, the art of this film is just incredible, which.

Is hard because this is 3D animation.

Yeah.

And no good Ghibli movie is 3D.

True. Not yet, but it was nominated for the Oscar for the best animated feature film.

And so, you know, I mentioned this with Onward, and a lot of my problem with, like, new Pixar stuff is like, they just use the same style for different whatevers. It's like this highly detailed whatever stuff. This film just does not do that. It's just like, we're gonna do our own thing.

So they pulled from what's called painterly style when it comes to, like, paintings where, like, instead of mixing the colors, then painting on the canvas, they would mix the colors on the canvas directly or layer the colors to kind of have like a mixing effect. So what they do with the CG in this film is they have the layers, especially like with the sea creatures, which makes a lot of sense for scales.

And they painted on the colors kind of like they would just digitally layer the colors instead of having it be highly stylized and detailed like they usually do for Pixar. I thought that was a brilliant choice, especially when, if you're gonna do anything, fish scales, like, that just works so well.

Some people, though, I have heard complain that the film, like, the art looked too simple. But it's like, well, it's because they were just doing a different style. It wasn't actually less.

It does have, like the bean mouth thing that a lot of people hate and I hate too. It's very samey.

It's like they call it the CalArts style for a few years and that changed pretty quick just because the CalArts style changed pretty quick. But it does it really well. If they all did it as well as Luca, it wouldn't be as big of a problem.

But first impression, you're definitely like, oh, here we go.

Yeah, yeah.

But the other really cool thing that they did, this, my last thing that I want to like, nerdy animation stuff that I thought was cool, they created a transformation rig that was like the first of its Kind kind of deal where the entire film, what they did for the animation is the human character and the sea monster were layered on top of one another.

So for any given scene, when something happened, like it started raining or whatever, they would apply the effect and basically the one layer would dissolve away. So you could see the layer behind, which is what allows it to have such fluid transformations from one to the other through throughout the movie.

And it's incredible. Like, when you see it, you're like, oh, it's just so well done. Like the. Yeah. The ingenuity, the tech that went into this.

Like, I love knowing that Pixar is still trying to do something new. Like they're not just doing the same old for everything.

So it's kind of cool. Yeah, it is. Also, I was rewatching the movie because I just don't watch it that often.

I do like to watch it, but I was re watching the movie and I was like, man, they sure are lucky that it doesn't rain in this small port town in Italy like, all the time. And I was like, oh, wait, no, it does. It will.

Yeah.

Did forget.

Yeah, yeah. So I mentioned the director a few times. I'm gonna mention him again because I. This is the.

Probably the person I'm most watching in all of animation right now. I am most excited for Enrico Casarosa.

I might be saying that incorrectly, but I know when I see his name now, I've been paying a little bit of attention and studying what he did for this film. Paying a lot more attention. Guy's incredible.

He was a storyboard artist first for Disney shows like 101, Dalmatian, animated series, PB&J Otters, etc. Then he went on to do storyboarding for Ice Age Robots.

Both great movies.

Yeah. And then he went on to do some of the art with cars, ratatouille and cars 2. Incredible guy.

Then he directs a short film, La Luna, which was also nominated for the best animated short film. He keeps getting nominated, but he has. I don't think he's won yet for, like, Oscars or anything. He was the head of story on Good Dinosaur.

Don't think he had anything to do with the art there. Then he does this that's again, almost won the Oscar for best animated feature film. I think it probably should have, but it's fine. Next up, though.

This is what had me really excited. So he really pushed for all the different art in this and not just doing the same old, same old for Luca. Took him five years at least.

They said two Months were spent just on pasta. Because this is an Italian film, the movement of pasta has to be correct. He spent that long just making sure the movement of pasta was correct.

I think it's going to be drawn in digitally, but it is going to be 2D styled a lot more like the Ghibli films again. Black Cat in Italy having to befriend the mob. I'm just so excited. This is going to be good.

Also, La Luna has a character. I love it when artists do this. La Luna has a character that's just like Massimo, but with two arms.

Yeah, La Luna was great. I like that his short film did so good that they were like, well, maybe he should get his own film.

And then Luca did so good for Disney plus, like, as a platform, that they're like, okay, Gato, which will be his first full film that actually gets to have box office numbers. And so I'll be a little bit more proof of concept, I guess, and I hope that goes well.

I really want people to show up for that film because maybe if we show them with our money, that Disney and Pixar will start caring about art again and doing new things and that'll make me happy. Yeah. He's also worked a lot with Mike Venturi, who helped on this film.

Some of Mike's or Venturi's early stuff was Iron Giant and Osmosis Jones, both great films. His first time as directing animator was for Ratatouille. Then he goes to this film.

He's also helped with Monsters Inc. Cars, Incredibles, Coco, Onward, Good Dinosaur.

He's helped with a lot of films, but I think his two, like, they played biggest roles for was Ratatouille and I think there was a couple others, but those are the two that I was like, oh, animating director. And both of the animations for these are incredible.

Yeah, man, I love Ratatouille. See, that's the real problem for me. I can't compare every Pixar movie to Ratatouille.

Then they all suck because they're not Ratatouille. Yeah.

Then it's all like threes and fours and maybe a seven for Coco.

Coco. So good. So if you had to pick a favorite scene, favorite character, favorite character design from this movie, tj, what would you go with?

Okay, so character design is probably Massimo fair. I love it. The Big old. Old sea. You know, sea fairer. Sorry, I just didn't want to say seaman. Fisherman. Big fisherman guy. He's got his harpoons.

Just wearing, like, the burlap shirt. He's awesome. I love it when just shows movies, whatever. Make a character whose eyebrows are just way too big.

Yeah.

Because the.

Like, I do think the best example is probably Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, where the dad just doesn't have eyes at all until he raises his eyebrows. That's so good. That's such a good cat. Massimo is probably my favorite design. My favorite character is probably. Probably Luca. Maybe Julia.

I do really like Julia's character. She's almost like how I was when I was younger. But I did have friends. That's not to pile on Julia.

Take that, kid.

Take that, loser. I don't know. I really like both characters, both motivations. Big fan. She's super cheesy. She's so focused on disabling the guys. What does she call it?

His. It's not despotic. His reign of injustice. It's so funny.

It is pretty funny. Yeah. Favorite scene.

That's hard. That is hard. It is. It's really hard. Probably. Honestly, probably the very end of the movie.

Very, very end of the movie where Luca's family and Massimo and Alberto team up to send Luca to school. Human school.

Yeah.

It's so good.

It is.

It is so good. And they do it really well. I know a lot of people are watching this, and naturally you start thinking that, oh, Luca's in love with Julia.

And they just removed Julia from the scene completely. She takes her exit a couple of minutes before the rest of the cast. But, yeah, that probably is my favorite scene in the movie.

Yeah. No, it is good.

Also hilarious that Alberto's obsessed with getting a Vespa, and there's just a train station in this town. Even if it only goes to Jenova, if you get to Jenova, you can go somewhere else.

Yeah. Definitely further than you could get with a Vespa. Yeah. No, I. You know, I was gonna choose the same scene. It was close for me.

Because I also do love when Luke is like, I'm gonna win by myself for you, for Alberto. Because Alberto pulls himself out of the race because he's, like, unwanted and whatever, and he just.

He's having an emotional moment, and Luca's like, fine, I'll win by myself.

Yeah. Yeah. Unhinged. That's the most unhinged thing that happens in the movie.

I love he jumps off the tower. But I love, like, he puts on the Scuba Diver suit so he doesn't get wet for the swimming portion. I love that because it's like.

It is emotionally deep, but it's also just funny.

Yeah, but the tower, man, he just jumps off the top of this tower, and it's like three, maybe four stories. Like, it's a pretty sizable tower for the time. There's no reason for that.

There's like, nothing that makes us think sea monsters, like, don't take fall damage. You know, he just jumps off, jumps into a tree.

Those are all incredible. Yeah. But I think I am. I'm gonna stand with you. The best scene is the end. Because, like, Alberto has the money to get his vest bud.

It's like, instead, I'm gonna give the money to you. I convinced your parents even to let you go to human school, who don't like humans very much, you know?

Or Alberto.

Yeah. But somehow he convinced them that it was okay. Gives the money that he was going to use for his dream Vespa thing.

And then, too, like, I love the moment where he's like, well, I figure that, you know, Massimo needs me around here because it's like, again, that goes to Alberto's need to be needed. And it's like, oh, that was good. And it's because you also. Massimo definitely played a pretty big part in that somehow.

Because he's like, yeah, I'm just gonna raise this kid. It's fine. Yeah. Good scene. First, favorite character. I am gonna go, Masimo.

I just love his, like, his whole life, he's like, I'm gonna kill a sea monster. Then as soon as he meets one, he's like, nope, that's a person. Care for that person?

Yeah. I mean, he did have to know them as humans, to be fair.

Yeah. But still. And then, favorite character design. I'm actually gonna go with Daniela, Luca's mom, because, you know, as a secret.

That's true. That is true.

No, you're so right, because she's criticizing the other person. She's criticizing dolphins. Like, why do they make noises like that? Whatever. And then as a human, somehow she kind of looks like a dolphin.

And they even have the gag where she does the dolphin noise.

Yeah, no, it's deeper than that. Forget Mossimo. Screw him. Never even existed.

What?

Daniela's design is so much better than every other sea monster in this movie. And every other person in this movie. So we talked about the bean mouth thing. I don't like it. I just don't.

The design for the sea monsters in general, it's kind of childish, which is fine. It's a kids movie. It's very good kids movie, but it's kids movie. Daniela's design is so much more sea monster y to me.

Even when she's not doing the gags, she just looks so much better. When I'm rewatching the movie, I'm like, I kind of wish Luca didn't look like that Again, I wish Alberto didn't look like that.

Then Danielle is on screen in her sea monster form. I was like, that's it. That's perfect. They give her the elongated nose. Her head's more narrow.

Yeah.

So good.

Her design is great.

So also his dad kind of funny looking.

Her brother is it. That's the one that lives like way under his brother.

His dad's brother.

There's also. That was up there for my favorite design too, because that was funny. And the after credit scene with him. Amazing. You guys got to see that one. Yeah.

But if. If every sea monster looked like Daniella, I think this movie would have done a lot better, but it would not be as appealing to kids. So.

Yeah. Yeah.

Which is also interesting. Maybe that says something about the philosophy of making this movie.

But I don't know. I still. I love the art.

I love that it looks more simple because the way they did it with the painterly and just kind of like layering the colors, I thought it was cool. But do gotta move on here. I want to list some of the places you guys can find some of these characters elsewhere.

If you're at the Pixar Pier in California Adventureland, you will see the characters doing meet and greets there, as well as Disneyland Pride Nights. They're pretty prevalent in that area. Disneyland Paris, I mentioned getting its own area.

Then you have rooms aboard the Disney Treasure that have its rooms that are just Luca themed. And of course, another cruise that has a restaurant called the Taverna Podorosa that's aboard the Disney Adventure.

And it's also Luca themed and it looks so cool. So if you want to see more Luca, it is out there. I'm hopeful to see more.

I don't want it overly done because again, I think it was a really artistically well made film. So I don't want it to be overly noveltized, if that makes sense. Gimmicked. I don't want to become a gimmick. Yeah.

Last thing, though, when we're doing like the Think Deeper stuff. We talked a lot about this stuff already, but I want to go to some of the four loves because I'm contractually obligated. So C.S.

Lewis has a book called the Four Loves. And a lot of what he talks about, I see so clearly in this film. Like, Cease Lewis talks about need, love, and how we have a need to be needed.

All of us have that. And it's different from want, love, which both. There's both aspects to every kind of our love.

There's a romantic, I want to be needed, a romantic I want to be wanted, et cetera. Shared truths when he talks about friendships are somewhere sharing the truth. We share the truth that we want to go out and see the world.

Then Luca meets Julia, and they have the shared truth of, like, wanting to learn more about the stars and how friendship is jealous. C.S. Lewis writes a lot about that, of how, like, if TJ and I shared a truth about.

Well, we actually do one piece and, like, our whole friendships about this. This is so cool. We talk about one piece all the time. Then all of a sudden, I meet Christian. Ashley and me and Christian.

What's something me and Christian both like?

Nothing.

Spider Man. And all of a sudden, I'm watching less one piece, talking to DJ less, because I'm suddenly really into Spider Man. I'm talking to Christian more.

It's reasonable that TJ will get jealous. Like, that's just natural aspect of friendship, love. Although I don't think TJ would. But I think naturally that's a lot of times how that works.

And just kind of seeing that displayed here.

And even how CS Lewis says friendship becomes toxic when it becomes about itself, because all the loves, when turned into a God, become a demon, is how C.S. Lewis words it. So with friendship, when you see that is, like, the friendship becomes about itself.

Like, me and DJ are friends, and then we're talking about our own friendship, and that's what the friendship becomes about. And then it becomes not really beneficial for anyone.

And I think you start to see that happening to Alberto or, like, more important to him than the Vespa or the journey was being friends with Luca. And that's where whenever Julia started showing up, Alberto just did not react very well. And I think that was really good display. And C.S.

Lewis's answer to that is, all the loves have a fault. And that's why they have to answer to a greater love, which C.S. Lewis and myself will affirm, is then agape, which is, you know, the divine love.

I thought it was really interesting how the relationships were displayed here and just kind of overlaying that with C.S. Lewis's works. I don't know. I think It's a really good case study. D.J.

As far as, like, just, like, relationships in this film go, do you think they're realistic, healthy, unhealthy? What are your thoughts on relationships?

I mean, I don't really remember being that young. My. My head don't work quite right all the time, so.

Because I remember you being that young, but I don't remember me being that young.

Yeah. So I assume it's pretty spot on. It's very believable. I absolutely believe that 14, 13. 14 Year old would act the way that Luca and Alberto do.

There's a couple of, I'd say, master strokes of character writing in. In Luca. Alberto is one the way. He's kind of reserved at first. He's closed off. He's not reserved.

And then Luca has to work to get that out of him and then jump off that tower. Mossimo reconciling his entire worldview just because he happens to know a couple sea monsters and he likes them. It's real good.

Yeah. One thing, there's a big truth there, too, of, like, it's easy to hate from a distance, but then once you get to know somebody, it's harder.

It's the others. Sea monsters are the others.

Yeah.

To Portorossa. And when they become, you know, just themselves, the problem's gone.

Yeah. Which, again, that's why I think the metaphor works so well. It doesn't have to be about LGBTQ stuff.

I think it is pretty clear that that was part of the intent.

But I think you can read that as, like, I like D and D and everybody else thinks people who play D and D are devil worshipers or, you know, I'm this ethnicity. Like, I think it works on so many different levels.

And that's why I think, again, that's why I think art done well is able to do, and I think it's more healthy for families. Again, Liz mentioned that with the onward thing of, hey, this is an opportunity to talk to your kids about this thing.

And I'm like, yeah, sure, I like how Luca does it. Because then if you don't want to talk to your kids about a thing, you don't have to go there.

But it does allow you to be like, hey, what did you think about how Alberto was treated? Okay, cool. And then you could have these conversations about the art and sure, maybe you go a different direction than, like, the queer stuff.

That's fine. Maybe you decide you do want to go there. So I like that arts just kind of open interpretation. They do that really well here and, yeah, man, I just.

I love how they do relationships. Before we go, tj, how important is friendship? And is friendship ever just toxic?

Friendship is magic.

Yeah. My Little Pony. Yeah.

Friendship's pretty much everything in life, even with, you know, other types of relationships. You know, you can have a dad or you can be friends with your dad. It's very different.

It's also very hard for the dad, I've heard, to do both, because you still got to be a dad, but whatever. Yeah. I think friendship to me, is relationship. Point blank, period. That's. Friendship is relationship. That's just me. It's just me.

I like to have friends. Yeah. You know, that view is mine. That is my worldview.

Yeah. And, I mean, I think this film does show, like, with Alberto, friendship can be toxic. But I'm gonna go.

Something CS Lewis said was that friendship is the closest of all human loves to the divine love, because it's not, like, based on some physical thing or like, oh, I was born, and thus we have to have family love.

Or I just suddenly fell head over heels over my wife, and now we're, you know, friendship, love is more of a choice, is more of, like, a participation. And that why CS Lewis says it's closest to the divine love of all of our human loves. And I don't know if I agree, but I like the sentiment.

There's definitely some truth there. I don't know if it's completely true.

Yeah. I don't know. All my friends are tall. Only friends with tall people.

Yeah. Yeah.

Coincidence.

I'm sure nobody likes short people.

Oh, no.

All right, so let's go ahead.

You have a couple of short friends, just not a lot. It really is, like, most of my friends are huge.

Well, you were meant to be tall, so that's why.

Yeah. If Josh was. Was part of my, like, regular, like, everyday friend group, he would be the fourth shortest person. No, fourth tallest person.

You'd be the third shortest. What I'm trying to say you.

If you were part of my regular friend group, you would still be the second tallest. That's just because I keep a really small friend group. Yeah. Anyway, with that, let's go ahead, start wrapping this one up.

Instead of an extra question, we're gonna do a bonus segment reviewing. Ciao, Alberto. So they do a short film of. That's kind of a sequel to this, of what happens with Alberto and Massimo after the film.

So if you want to hear some about that, we'll be talking about that here in a minute. First, though, we do have to Give some recommendations. Tj, what are you recommending to people?

Nothing yet. I just wanted to let everyone know that Josh can't spell chow.

Thanks.

Yeah, you're welcome. I do recommend if you just want some more of this world. Ciao, Alberto. It's a fun little. I mean it's like seven minutes.

Just like a seven minute follow up on here's how that went. I wish they had made one for Luca in Human School.

I wish they will make one. I hope they still do. That would be cool.

Yeah, they still could. It's interesting that they only did one for Alberto, but.

Yeah. Which I felt needed. But it also felt like it didn't fit the regular film. So. I like how they did it.

Yeah.

Yeah. But we'll talk about a minute. For my recommendation, I'm having to look up the actual name of this. I'm recommending the Republic of Pirates.

It's a building game where you just kind of build your own pirate armada in port Rum Runners and it's like the cheesy, not realistic at all. Pirates with like that kind of music.

Like if you just took Pirates of the Caribbean when it was originally made with all of the like campiness of it, I feel like that's what you get. It's great though. I'm having a lot of fun. It's very chill with that though.

Do want everybody to consider reading, reviewing this show Wherever you get your podcast, podcast, Spotify, wherever it does help the algorithms think we're important so other people can find our show. Want to thank our financial supporters Today we're specifically shouting out Daniel Sigman. Daniel, you're amazing.

You guys want your own shout out like Dan, you can become an official member of System Echology on our website. Down found in the links found down in the show's description.

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Again, this is our second film in the COVID era of Disney Pixar animation. So we got one more before we do a kind of an encore. A couple other films in the series. So you want to hear the whole series.

The link for that also is in the show's description. I think it's been fun and worth your time. Remember everybody, one last thing. That we are all a chosen people. A geekdom of priests.

Sa.