The latest episode of Systematic Geekology's Primarily Political series dives deep into the political undertones of Superman, particularly spotlighting the upcoming 2025 film by James Gunn. Will, Laura, and Justin break down how Superman has always been more than just a caped crusader; he's a mirror reflecting societal issues, grappling with themes of alienation, identity, and interventionism. They discuss how this new film aims to capture the essence of Superman as an immigrant and outsider, navigating a world that often doesn’t understand him. With witty banter and insightful commentary, they also touch on the media's portrayal of superheroes and the implications of social media as a modern-day kryptonite. Buckle up, as this episode promises a thought-provoking and fun ride through the intersection of politics and pop culture!

Diving headfirst into the world of fandom, the podcast crew takes a bold leap into the political waters surrounding James Gunn's rendition of Superman. They kick things off with a friendly banter, reassuring the audience that political discussions don't have to be a snooze-fest. With a supportive and enthusiastic vibe, the trio—comprised of Speaker A, Justin, and Laura—jumps straight into the heart of the matter, emphasizing that politics is woven into the very fabric of the films and franchises they cherish. They explore how Superman, since his inception in 1938, has been a symbol of hope and justice, acting against injustices like domestic violence and corruption, making him more than just a flying hero; he's a political figure in his own right.

The conversation meanders through a variety of themes, from Superman's immigrant narrative to the complexities of public perception shaped by social media. The panelists draw parallels between Superman's struggles as an outsider and contemporary political issues, emphasizing the need for empathy and understanding in a world rife with division. With their unique perspectives, they reflect on how the character's legacy has evolved with time, tackling modern-day issues like immigration and social justice, all while maintaining a light-hearted and witty tone that keeps the audience engaged. As they dissect the political nuances of the film, they balance humor with poignant insights, ultimately leading to a deeper appreciation for the rich tapestry of themes embedded in the superhero genre.

Takeaways:

• In the latest episode of Primarily Political, the hosts dive deep into the political themes surrounding Superman, particularly in light of the upcoming James Gunn film.
• They explore how Superman's character has always been rooted in political contexts, tackling issues from his origins as an immigrant to his role in contemporary social justice discussions.
• The discussion highlights the duality of Superman as both a powerful hero and a misunderstood alien, emphasizing the importance of empathy and understanding in today's political landscape.
• Listeners are reminded that politics permeates not only our real lives but also the worlds of our beloved fandoms, making it vital to engage with these themes critically and thoughtfully.

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We discuss all this and more in this one! Join in the conversation with us on Discord now!

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Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Foreign.

Welcome to another episode of Systematic Ecology.

And yes, you hear that music correctly.

It is another episode of primarily political, part of our series of diving into politics in the real world and in our fandoms.

And yeah, we're gonna get political today, friends.

And no, no, no, don't run away.

Don't cut this off.

Don't be scared.

I know it's a scary word, especially in this day and age.

And I tell you what, there's many times when I just want to run away from this, too.

But, you know, this is a part of our series where we acknowledge and are honest that politics is not only a part of our real lives and a part of the communities that we're a part of, but also in the fandoms that we love.

These heroes, villains, the things we geek out on, are anchored in a world that someone created that often has a political twist or turn or politics as a part of it.

And so we're going to explore that today.

And the big topic that we're going to talk about today is the politics of James Gunn's Superman.

Yep, that's what we're going to talk about today.

And I have three of my favorite geekologists here with me, Justin and Laura.

And we're going to get political.

You guys a little nervous?

You're excited?

How are you feeling about this, y'?

All?

I think it's going to be good.

Gonna be good.

I am very excited.

Good, good, good.

So this is not only a podcast, but it's also on our YouTube channel as well.

And so we hope that you do hop on over there if you're listening and, like, subscribe, share.

If you.

If we get to 50 likes, I might wear my underwear outside of my pants and put a red cape on and run Franklin Street.

And then Justin will have to bail me out if that happens.

But this.

Get 50 likes.

I'm going to do some.

Yeah.

How is that different from every other day?

I know.

Well, I might do it on Tuesdays instead of Thursdays.

Okay, okay.

That's right.

That's right.

If we ever get 50 likes, I'm going to have to do something like that just because I don't.

I don't know.

But yeah, if you're.

If you're listening to this on the pod, then, you know, rate and review and share with a friend and hop over on our social medias and chime in your thoughts.

And if we missed anything or something you like that we talked about, you want us to talk more about, let us know.

And then for our Patreon supporters, all those out there who keep the ship running smoothly and.

And the lights on.

We really, really, really, really appreciate you.

I really love the.

The community that we've cultivated here at Systemic Ecology and the ecologists that.

That listen to our show and support us and chime in and so, yeah, you know, yeah, thanks.

Yeah.

So.

And if you want to hear more episodes of Primarily Political, then we have a whole playlist with our podcasts and on YouTube, all the different themes of the politics that are a part of our fandoms.

And we are going to talk about today, Superman.

I'm super excited about this.

One of the first messages I got when this movie debut, I wasn't able to see it, like, the opening night or even the second open.

I had to wait till, like, the weekend, which was fine.

I was in Wilmington.

My brother saw a family, loved it.

But one of the first movies I got was from Laura, who was like, have you seen it yet?

You're going to love it.

It's one of my favorite movies of all time.

And I like, I really vibe with Laura, what Laura geeks out on, so I trust her geek cred.

And I was like, man, I cannot wait to see this movie.

And, Justin, we.

You and I have not discussed this movie before, but I assume you've seen it and we're ready to do that.

So people, super excited.

All right, friends, so as kind of a warm up, warm up question to get us kind of thinking politically, we do this on these kinds of episodes and series, we're going to share an example of a bad political actor.

Bad.

Someone we don't approve, someone that gets on our nerves, someone that we're like, why are they in that position of power and privilege, either in reality or in fandom or fiction?

So, you know, if you guys want to go real world, go for it.

If you want to go fandom, of course you're allowed.

But let's go around the horn here.

And Laura, you're gonna.

You're gonna get us kicked off here.

Let's.

Let's not kicked off the Internet, which depends on your answer.

You might, but you're gonna kick things off.

You gotta kick things off.

I'm gonna go with fictional because I feel like I'm gonna get myself in trouble if I go real world.

But I will happily jump in if one of you want to say something.

But fictional.

The first person that popped into my mind was Emperor Palpatine.

Oh, okay.

And so, you know, he's playing both sides of the coin, you know, between you know, the good guys and the bad guys and who really knows what side Emperor Palpatine is on until we see the whole interaction with Anakin.

And.

Well, I love Star Wars.

I'm not going to deep dive into Star wars because this isn't a Star wars episode.

But we could go there.

You know me, you know me.

It can happen.

Really?

I love it though.

But you know, it's.

And then you get to the end and spoiler.

But the movies have been out for a long time and suddenly you see the, you know, execute order 66 and everything's very clear.

Right?

Yeah.

So.

And that's especially played out really well in the Clone wars.

But that's for another episode.

Yeah, I think he's up there on the Mount Rushmore of really bad political leaders and plays the long game of subversion, you know, of, of the enemy in your midst that you don't notice whether it's because of the dark side or just playing the slow game of letting organ, the organized religion of, of Jedi ism, eat its own tail or become self centered or blind.

It's blind spots up.

So yeah, I think that's a pretty, pretty awesome choice there, Justin.

Where, where are you gonna go with this one?

Wow.

So this is a really fun question.

And I'm also gonna go fictional because like this is too much low hanging fruit.

Yeah, yeah.

So when I think about bad political actors, my mind went to B is for Vendetta.

Now we could do a whole episode on that movie related to politics.

Yes.

So Chancellor Sutler is the guy who's in charge of, of England Charge the UK and he's, he's, he has this kind of fear driven authoritarianism about him.

And so the whole thing is about him and his government weaponizing people's anxieties in order to maintain power.

So.

Wow.

So again, it's not just him.

There's a whole media apparatus around him and it shows how propaganda and manipulation keep the people in line.

Oh man, it's so good.

Political failure of the worst and sometimes too close to home kind.

So I would say Chancellor Sutler V is for vendetta.

Nice.

Yeah, yeah.

Excellent choice, excellent choice.

And I, I'm so sorry.

Well, I got really excited.

But the, the, I'm a little obsessed with V for Vendetta and I like quote it more than a normal person should.

And so one of the other, one of my students the other day, we were talking about birthdays and he said his birthday was November 5th.

And then I just started, you know, remember, remember the 5th of November, the gunpowder, trees and plot.

And he's like, what are you talking about?

So anyway, got really excited when you said that.

That's great.

Now I'm going to reveal some of my.

My geek cred.

I've never seen the movie.

I know you hear the gas, folks.

You hear the disturbance in the force.

I've read the graphic novel.

I've read the Alan Moore Gr.

Graphic novel is one that they were like, you know, you gotta read.

You get in the.

And eventually, you know, you get to Alan Moore's stuff with the Watchmen and.

And V for Vendetta.

And so I know Natalie Portman's in it, you know, another Star wars reference, you know, Padme is.

Is there.

So I need.

I need.

That's on the list.

And I. I will make a vow to you, too, my fellow co hosts here, that I. I will see it in the near, near future is on the list.

This could be a movie night.

It could be a movie night.

We should do a fifth of November, you know.

Okay, great.

All right.

I don't know what that's in reference to, but I'm gonna.

Before November 5th, I'm gonna watch this.

Yes, yes, I did read the graphic novel.

It's probably the graphic novel and I just forget.

But I'm writing it down right now.

Folks, you can't see this except you're on YouTube.

Again, we have a primarily political November 5th right near then.

Okay.

Celebrating the movie.

I love it.

I love it.

Laura and I are in it.

We are already.

Doing.

Mine's going to be Amanda Waller.

I'm gonna keep it in the dcu.

My.

My political.

Bad political.

I mean, she has some good intentions in there, whether it's like, nervousness around metahumans and keeping the world safe, but this whole, like, the ends justify the means.

So I'm going to take criminals and create Task Force X and the Suicide Squad.

I'm gonna put a bomb in the back of their head and blow them up if they don't listen or get out of line.

And.

And, you know, whatever it takes to get her agenda or whatever government's going on.

And there's most of.

Usually the DC universe, those in political power.

She's.

She's very, like, secret ops.

So a lot of people don't even know what she's doing.

She's doing this on her own.

So I think Amanda Waller, you know, there's some.

You could psychoanalyze all this stuff.

But, but then, But I think, yeah, Joshua will agree with this.

One of his big pet peeves is the ends doesn't justify the means.

There's a different way you can go there.

So, yeah, we're going to keep it in the dcu.

Amanda Waller, the Suicide Squad, James Gunn, peacemaker, all those things.

I think Anna Waller, she's around.

She's the mainstay of the old DCU and the new dcu.

She's the one who kind of bridges the gap there.

So.

Yeah, so.

All right, I think Godzilla wants us to kind of keep moving here.

So let's jump into some Superman.

All right.

And so talking about Superman, let's, you know, maybe we'll go.

We won't go into a long.

Many books have been written, many shows, documentaries about the history of, of Superman.

I'm reading a book about kind of his biography and history through print and then radio and then TV and then the movies and then comics, all those things.

And, you know, he starts off in Action Comics number one, stopping a unjustified death penalty.

That was getting ready to happen, you know, so he subverts that and the domestic violence and then he stops some corrupt senators or lobbyists.

And so I think from the very beginning, number one, it's been a.

He has been political, he has been in the politics of what's going on around him as the original superhero and eventually gets.

He's the first one to really have not anthology in comics, but his own comic book called Superman.

Most comics then were anthologies or even Batman and other superheroes showed up and, you know, just.

It was an eight page story within a larger anthology of other stories of westerns and sci fi and stuff.

But finally got his own book.

So part of his legacy is political because that's what's going on in the world.

What's he going to save us from?

Ourselves and bad politics.

But in terms of you guys, what's your history with Superman?

And then kind of his long history, before we talk about the recent movie, some things that you experience or see kind of politically that Superman kind of taps into, whether it's holding up a mirror or helping us sort through and process what's going on in our real world.

Well, you know, I've been a Superman Watcher for a long time.

I can't remember really a time when Superman wasn't a part of my consciousness as far as that kind of from a fandom standpoint.

And this person who is.

Represents a moral, a steady moral center, no matter what is going on around him.

Because sometimes that tension is not just with the, with the named villains in the story, but it's often with the folks who are more aligned with the hero of the story.

So he's kind of in this in between place and then learning of the.

The Jewish origins of Superman, if you will, as far as the writers of the comet and thinking about their place and perspective as writers.

So it's.

So his being in the world, but not of the world in a kind of way has always been compelling to me.

Nice.

Laura, how about you?

Yeah, I would agree.

One of my favorite things about Superman is the connection to the Moses story and the balance of Halil versus El Elohim.

Like there's this whole beautiful narrative of Moses.

And in fact, my Old Testament class gets to hear this every semester because we do a whole lesson about Superman.

And the Old Testament, that syllabus.

Can I take that?

Can I, can I audit that class?

Absolutely.

Come on over.

Yeah.

Lewisburg College would love to have you, but.

But that's, that's one of my.

My favorite things about Superman is that connectedness to the Moses story and even the Christ story as well.

But I would be remiss and my husband will pick on me if I don't tell the truth of when I really started to love Superman.

And that was when Henry Cavill showed up.

Yeah.

Rightfully so.

Rightfully so.

Nathan knows that I am in love with Henry Cavill.

And it's not just the Superman thing.

It's the Warhammer thing and the building computers thing.

It just like.

Yeah.

There's just so much love, you know.

So just curious, you know, not to go tangent when you heard they are recasting Superman for this next movie where you like, wait, wait, don't.

Don't take away Henry from me.

Yes.

So disappointment.

And then, I mean, that even justifies, you know, your thoughts of the movie post.

Because you're like, wait, wait, it subverted my expectations.

I went in and I'm going to tell you the truth.

The only reason I was sold on seeing the movie was crypto.

Yeah.

And crypto is adorable.

And the ads, because I'm a Batman fan, like, that's my real, real love is Batman.

And I like Superman.

I love Henry Cavill.

So when this all Came about, I was like, you're messing with my version of Superman now.

And I got upset.

So when I ended up loving it, and we'll come back to that in a bit, I'm sure.

But.

But I was very surprised by this movie.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

I was kid of the 70s and 80s, so I was, you know, watching Saturday morning cartoons and the Super Friends and the big three of Wonder Woman and Batman and Superman were my jam.

I loved it.

You know who, you know, a kid my age born in the 70s and playing imagination in the 80s, didn't throw on a red towel around their neck and jump off things.

And that's what I was doing.

And still every now and then, still do it, as we know on Franklin street.

Sometimes I do that.

But they.

So I've always liked Superman.

I've always seen him as, like, the pinnacle of what a hero is.

Right.

And now when I started collecting comics and really getting into a lot of geeky stuff, I gravitate toward Marvel and X Men.

I love the Mutants and I love those powers and the drama that was going on with those teams.

I love the team books, the Justice League and Avengers and X Men.

But Superman, of course, I was always on the pinnacle and pedestal of what heroes should be or striving for.

And then when all those movies were coming out and different things, a big part of it.

And so I, I, I liked Henry Cavill.

I liked him as Superman Snyder, you know, there's certain, you know, we can get into Snyderverse versus all that kind of stuff.

What Superman is or isn't.

I'm a huge James Gunn fan.

I liked what he did with Marvel and B and C and D list characters with Guardians and all that, and then hopped over Suicide Squad.

So when I heard he was on curating a new DC universe like Marvel had done, interconnected one, I couldn't have been more happy and then trusted him with Superman.

Then when I saw Crypto, I was like, oh, come on.

I think that we were about to jump into a conversation about just some of these major themes that we find in Superman across the different iterations of the, of comic books and movies and other media.

And one of the themes really is this sense of him being an alien and a refugee and an immigrant in the midst of this story.

So how do you see and relate to Superman as alien, refugee, and immigrant?

Yeah, I think that's actually something that's pointed out really well in the new movie.

And I feel like they do a good job.

I know there's all the arguments about, like, wokeness and other things, which.

That's a whole other, you know, field of problems and how we perceive that.

But, you know, I think when we're.

When we're talking about the fact that.

Think about how much scripture has to say about welcoming, you know, the immigrant, welcoming the alien.

And then we have this whole story of Superman, who is kind of a fish out of water the entire time.

He's never really in a place where he's comfortable.

I mean, he's Superman, but he's never super comfortable.

Right.

And I think really making a highlight of that is important because when we forget that aspect of Superman, when we forget, you know, again, going back to that Moses story, right?

Like, he's always wandering.

He's never quite in his home place or where he's.

Where he's from or with his people, really, even.

And so highlighting that and really seeing the point of that in the story, that also pairs with his humanity and sort of seeing Superman almost in like a pacifist light, but not entirely right.

Like, his goal is not to hurt people or to damage anybody, but his goal is to see the humanity in others.

And what is missing the whole time is other people seeing the humanity in him because all they see is that he's from somewhere else.

But in terms of James Gunn movie, you know, the hype leading up to it, but then also the media backlash you may have already talked about, not sure if you have or not, but like, the media already predetermining what it was or was it in terms of it being woke or too political or.

Why can't Superman just save people and not get into all the politics of the world?

You know, kind of like shut up and dribble kind of lingo, which is, you know, appalling to me.

So, like, the whole, like, they don't understand.

Tell me you don't understand Superman by telling me you don't understand Superman by doing some of these clickbaity articles.

And so exactly.

Let's talk about, you know, kind of three themes here.

Superman as alien, refugee, immigrant, Superman as an interventionist.

And then then also there's.

They play around with, like, social media trolls and monkeys here in this.

In terms of public perception and what you can manipulate in the algorithms of.

Of what you want to portray someone else as if you're going to other them as an alien or different or scary because they're an Alien, then you can also other them in the public perception of social media.

So all this movie holds up a mirror to all those things, which I absolutely love.

So you already were talking about him as kind of refugee, Moses figure, immigrant.

What else do we want to lift up there in terms of what James Gunn was doing with this movie?

Well, you know, I think that what James Gunn does, just generally speaking, is he's really pulling out some of what at least some of us see as essential elements of Superman in the comics, right?

And so this.

On this theme of, you know, alien, refugee, immigrant, you know, he's.

So you got this dude from Krypton who is adopted into this Kansas family.

He's growing up in this world that he's never completely belonged to.

One of the nice things I think that Gun does is he puts all of this in the background.

You kind of jump right into Superman already established in the world.

And so you just get little pieces of this.

But, you know, his difference is what gives him power, right?

And so, you know, it's reasonable that people.

So you think, well, yeah, it might be reasonable that people fear the guy because they don't always understand difference.

We don't always understand difference.

And when that happens, you know, fear is something that can sometimes creep up until.

Until life.

And so, you know, this.

So what makes it so political?

Well, it's about, you know, who gets to belong, who gets to decide who is truly one of us.

These are questions that I think Gun is.

Is bringing forward in his depiction of.

Of Superman.

So, you know, Superman embodies this.

This idea of.

Of an outsider that can bring gifts to us.

You know, these gifts that he brings literally saves the world again and again.

And even as that is in play, even as he's saving the world again and again and again, people still try to regulate him, right?

People still try to, in this case, deport him and even destroy him.

You know, as.

As this.

Luthor's constant, you know, pathology here, which is driven by the fear of the difference, right?

And it's so frustrating when you watch it because you're like, here's this man that has saved all of y' all so many times.

And you've seen who he is, you've seen his character, you've seen his person.

And the.

The ease with which propaganda can sneak in and social media influence can sneak in and just change all of that is scary.

And it felt a little too close to home in some ways, and watching that part of the movie.

But we see that in pop culture a lot Right.

Like, as a throwaway reference, you know, Ghostbusters 2 always drove me crazy because you had the Ghostbusters.

I love that movie, just to be clear.

But you have Ghostbusters and they save everything.

And then Ghostbusters too.

Suddenly they're, like, unemployed and doing birthday parties and nobody knows who they are anymore.

Like, how far have we fallen from glory?

But it happens so fast and it's so easy to spin a narrative, and that's scary because we see it play out in the real world.

Yes.

Yeah, I like that.

And this whole under, like the, the whole fear of the other is brought up and, And I think him wrestling with his identity in the movie.

You know, you see that in the movie with, like, his, his earthly parents, his parents from Krypton.

And wrestling with what?

His family.

How did people also his family, his.

His work life, his girlfriend.

He's.

He's juggling a lot of perceptions there.

And then.

And then you have Lex, who is.

Who is really trying to portray him as.

As the fear of the other.

He's going to conquer us.

He's going to defeat us.

And.

And really it boys down to, I mean, jealousy and ego.

And that's always been a part of Superman's story from the gig of the villains.

Who is this guy?

And really the villains who really hate him the most is because they wish they had more attention, more power, more privilege, or they feel like Superman is going to be a threat to his power and privilege.

And that's what's going on.

So, of course, the politicians, we see this one Jesus himself, right?

Like the religious leaders, the religious establishment, the, The.

The leaders around him, this label of Christ, which is a very political label, is they feel threatened by this person who's getting attention that could be.

Could be the Christ.

So we got to get rid of them.

And so the same thing is happening here with Superman.

Get rid of them, throw them into a pocket universe in a jail where other people are being thrown off, too.

So, yeah, he made this and wrote this a couple years ago.

Yeah, there's.

There's trends and Trump's first.

First term, but.

But it's really ramped up in the second one.

So, yeah, if.

If this offends you, if you voted for Trump and this movie offends you because you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Then we need to ask why.

Why is that?

Why is it sting?

Why is it.

Why is it like a knife in the side?

And so, yeah, if we're going to get political, we just got to Say, yeah, if there's some things here that.

That make you uncomfortable, we really need to ask ourselves why.

Why it's making us uncomfortable, which is what our fandoms are and entertainment often does.

Often does.

I love this idea, Justin, of the gifts that they bring.

The outsider, the other not being a threat, but also bringing a gift to help you see the world in a different point of view.

Yeah.

We're in church settings.

New member comes, new person comes, different gifts.

Going to throw off the system a little bit, but also could add more to our community.

Yeah, Maybe.

Maybe they're gifts rather than, than threats.

Right.

My, My dad always has these terrible colloquialisms.

He's a pastor also, and he would always.

He had this sign on his door that said, those who are offended easily should be offended often.

It's a terrible thing to say for a pastor.

And yet there's some truth to it.

Right.

Like, if everything offends you, you should probably question why it offends you and if it's stepping on your toes and maybe there's a reason for that.

So.

Well, then, you know, when you start thinking about.

We'Ll.

We'll mention the gifts piece.

And this kind of goes into the, the theme of, of intervention, because part of it is, I mean, so you bring these great gifts, and then the question is, so when do I use them?

You know, in this.

Which.

So one of the most powerful scenes I think, in the movie is the.

Is the kind of faux interview that happens between Superman and, and Superman says Clark and Lois.

You know, they're all, all three characters really kind of intermingling in there.

And, and really that, that question is around how do.

How and when do I intervene?

So part of what I love about the, the scene.

And I mean, this is kind of a spoiler alert here, friends, but what I love about that scene is that, you know, Lois is here as a mirror putting up a mirror.

And then you get to see both Superman, Clark wrestle with both his super side and his human side.

Right.

There's this kind of wrestling in between the two and trying to ask that question, like, so when what is right?

How do I know when I should have an exercise of.

Of power?

What's overstepping a line and that, that, that wrestling.

Because, you know, just because you have power, just because you bring these gifts, you need to use them in each and every circumstance.

And, and what does it mean to be a person of, of great power who just does whatever you want to do?

But I think, you know, in terms of Conflict in the world.

This whole idea.

Superman, from his origins of World War II being kind of a mascot for America and in the world wars and.

And throughout.

Throughout our history of conflict of with other nations.

I think when you pit two nations against each other, one's more powerful, more technologically advanced than the other.

And they're like, who's oppressing who?

Who's invading who?

What's going on?

Those big questions of war and just war and what that means are all legit in terms of our theological and political discourse.

But then you add a superhero with gifts that has the power to do something.

We can't help but feel like, all right, America, the richest and most powerful military in the world, per se, or we claim to be.

Should we intervene against others and help others who are being oppressed?

That's a real question.

So Superman really wrestling with.

And I think a friend of mine, Taylor, said, you know, one of the most amazing parts of that movie was him just freaking out and getting upset and saying, I just don't want people to die.

I just don't want people to die.

Is that so wrong?

You know, and so that.

Very, very, very powerful.

And so, yeah, the question should he intervene?

Should he not?

And then through the comics, he's always had this question of, I can hear everything going on.

I have to make choices of where I divert my attentions and gifts the most, and do I see the cat out of the tree, or do I fly the other side of the world and save a nation that's being invaded by another powerful nation?

So he has to discern his gifts and how he intervenes and saves others.

I think we have to make those choices with our communities and churches and budgets.

We're making decisions.

We're getting up on budget time, stewardship time in our church, and we got to make some decisions of where do we send our gifts and time and attention?

And so we feel that pressure, too.

I wish I could save the world.

I wish that everything in the world.

But, yeah, we.

Let's discern how we use these.

I think this movie helped kind of create the dilemma that Superman has.

But then also there's the Justice Gang, and there's also friends from Daily Planet.

And he's also leaning into, like, I love that scene of the Justice Gang defying the interdimensional creature.

And he's like, no, they're okay.

They got it.

Yeah, he could go help out and probably.

Probably fix things really fast, because, no, I got other things I need to do.

I'm a trust them.

With their gifts.

So I like this integrated universe, that the dcu, they're already metahumans and superheroes, that they're having to work together as team and figure out how to work together on this, too.

Lara, go for it.

I've talked too much.

No, I think.

I mean, the root of this problem goes all the way back and philosophy to the categorical imperative and the trolley problem, right?

Like, how do you decide what is more important and what life is more valuable than another?

And I think it's one of the reasons I love that we see Superman swoop in and pick up a squirrel in the middle of the movie.

And James Gunn said that when they tested that particular part, that audiences hated it, and he insisted that it stay.

And I agree, because I think, again, it goes back to that argument of, you know, is life valuable as a whole?

Do you truly value life, or do we only value certain parts of life and certain moments in life?

And I think we see that as an argument, whether people realize that or not.

We argue those things a lot.

Which part of life is more important?

Which is more valuable?

And it's all the way back to the trolley.

You know, you've got one person on the rails, and you can divert and save that one person, but five other people are going to die.

And.

And what if that one person has the cure for cancer, you know, and everybody else is a convict?

Like, how do you decide who is more important or more valuable than another?

And I think we see Superman wrestling with that throughout the entire movie.

I like that.

And I think, yeah, we wrestle with this one thing to be political in our nation, have disagreements around, like, how much money we should spend with education at NASA and.

And food programs.

Another if, like, you're demeaning whole groups of people and dehumanizing them.

So I think that's why our political climate is so elevated at the moment, because it's like, yeah, back, you know, 40, 50 years ago, it seems like it wasn't as toxic, but, yeah, you still had, like, movements of people who.

Who either see themselves better as other people or kind of supremacy in any kind of form and shape is demeans.

Demeans the other.

And so all this is interconnected in terms of how we use the resources and gifts and those things too.

And then, all right, you make a wrong choice.

You.

You or what.

Someone thinks you're spending money the wrong way, and they're going to attack you on social media and tell you that you're not a real American or this or that.

What do you.

What do you guys think this movie plays around with?

They.

There weren't trolls in this pocket dimension calling Superman.

What was it?

Shitty Superman or whatever.

The word he didn't like really, really triggered him.

But then you have these, these monkeys who are typing away.

What are you guys thinking?

We're definitely is being ramped up with AI and bots and social media.

Here we go.

I think, I think this is.

I think it's a good commentary and holds up a good mirror of what's going on in our current world that Superman maybe hasn't had to deal with quite yet.

Well, if I can just say one thing is that this movie was.

So you don't have kryptonite, by and large, playing a huge role in this movie.

Right.

So what you do have is social media manipulation as kryptonite.

I thought that was very clever.

So that's.

That's what I'll say about it.

I think that's a great interpretation.

I will also say that when they got to that part and you see them in the pocket universe and there's these monkeys just like.

I cackled.

Like cackled.

Because that was such a throwaway thing to put in there with no commentary, and yet it said everything I needed to say.

Yeah.

And, and I, you know, our, our denomination just had some big bishop elections for our state, North Carolina, and as a whole for ELCA.

And, you know, if you were to ask me 20 years ago, you know, one day, will, would you mind being a bishop one day?

I would always say, you know, I, I'm pretty good with people, pretty good shepherd.

I don't mind taking care of pastors, those things.

But this present age of like weekly having to put a post to counterbalance the algorithm or to make a.

Respond to a national tragedy or a shooting or saying quite the wrong thing on social media, and then a whole church leaves because you said something wrong.

It's just an added element to how to navigate the world and common life together that I don't want any.

A part of.

It's a part of reality of trying to.

Trying to be a good shepherd and use our faith in a positive way.

But this present age of whether you're a politician or a leader in any sense, religious or political, that whole aspect is a part that really scares me a lot, that turns me away that I don't want any.

A part of those kinds of things.

Just dealing with people or communities and helping shepherd that way.

Cool.

But added element of toxicity on social media is.

Is pretty scary Thing and the fact that they brought it up, even Superman gets nervous and scared about it.

Yeah, all right.

Absolutely.

So, all right, let's, let's, let's vote here.

Let's, let's vote.

Do you.

Is.

Is the verdict.

Was the movie political?

I think that if you think the gospel is political, then yes, the movie was political.

Laura's read my mind.

Absolutely.

That is exactly what, what I would say.

I mean, it is.

When you put this kind of.

This kind of person in front of the world who's thinking and behaving in the way that they're doing, it can't help but have an impact.

And so, yeah, it's always going to be political.

And you see, we didn't have quite.

A lot of time to talk about.

It, but the conversation the most, when Superman really became Superman in the movies, that conversation with Lex there at the end, where you just kind of see the counterpoint, and that counterpoint is the most powerful political message.

Yeah, that's.

That's strong.

That's wrong.

Yeah, of course it's political.

You know, I told.

Even before it even came out, of course it's going to have those elements in it, you know, because you have world governments and, and superheroes all trying to work together, make the world a better place, and you have villains and, you know, and so I think the, the word that was really attached to this movie was, was woke.

And it's gone woke.

And it's just a kind of a label they're just throwing on things to help trigger the base or whatever.

But I think, yeah, it is political and there's elements of what are we waking up to and what does that help us wake up to in our own reality, to help us in this world navigate a complicated, broken world, I think, yeah, I'm there for it.

So, yeah, we'll keep talking about it.

We have a Supergirl Woman of tomorrow at some point, more crypto and get more crypto and then more dcu.

And if watch Peacemaker as well, they get into some politics and what hero should or shouldn't do, all that stuff is a part of it.

So no shortage of content when we do these.

Do these kind of episodes here at Sysmec Ecology.

And yeah, and if folks, friends, listeners, if you're on the different side of the aisle when it comes to world politics, American politics and where we love to engage, your thoughts reach out to us, DM us, we're not going to argue with you, we're not going to demonize you.

But seriously, if you have Some different thoughts and ideas or different angles.

We'll entertain those.

We're open community to have those kinds of conversations.

We're not scared of those.

All right, so, all right, we shared a bad example or a bad actor.

Bad political.

A good one.

If there's a healthy one, a good one, Real life, fictional.

What would you guys choose before we get to the bonus question here, Laura, I want you to go.

Why don't you leave us off?

I think I would say Jen Erso from Star wars, and I think Rogue One.

And I think I say that because, I mean, the girl, like, is in this place where there's no hope and people are giving up, and she gives this whole impassioned speech about how rebellions are built on hope, right?

And then she gives this line about what.

What choice do we have?

You know, but it's not about what choice.

It's, you know, what chance is there, you know, against all of those things that are going on in the world.

So you don't have a choice.

You have to stand up and do something.

And so I think she's a great political leader and an inspiration, and I quote her way too often.

Well, Justin, I'm gonna just bowl straight down the middle here.

If you know me from our various conversations, I'm going with Jean Luc Picard, Star Trek, the Next Generation.

So it's not just about intelligence for him or strategy.

It's about integrity.

So he embodies this kind of diplomacy, this respect for diversity.

He's not leading by fear or manipulation, but by appealing to shared values and compassion.

And so in that way, he models for me what politics could look like if we valued understanding over domination.

Love it.

That's great.

And I'm gonna keep it in the DCU as well.

I think I'm gonna pick as a good example Perry White, because here is the Daily Planet.

He has to navigate what is putting out there, what he's curating the news, being true to the.

He's a hero in itself, taking down the villains through the power of journalism and print and free speech and those kinds of things.

So I'm going to go with Perry White.

We know he's not an elected official, but he definitely has a political.

Political position in a sense of what's being people are perceiving and reading in the world.

So I love his counterbalance to the Internet monkeys and trolls with.

With his band of heroes from the Daily.

Well, friends, thank you for being a part of us.

We couldn't thank you more for listening to the show Painted we know there's a lot of content, a lot of choices out there, but yet you chose to listen to this the very end.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Smash that, like, button.

I'll run through Franklin street with.

With a cape on if, if you really want Under Roots.

Remember amberoos from the 80s?

I'll find some and I'll put those on and, and run, run around.

So, so thank you for, for your.

We will have a bonus question and so I will share that.

Our bonus question.

If you're a patron supporter, you get extra content in your feeds.

And so what we're going to answer, what other C or D list character in the DC Universe comics would we want to bring bring over into the Justice Gang?

Not Justice League, remember, Justice Gang.

They might be.

They might be the Super Friends at some point.

We don't know what James Gunn's gonna do or rename and relabel these, these, these folks, these band of heroes.

But the Justice Gang, what would we choose?

And you get to hear what Laura and Justin and I choose to put in the Justice Gang.

And I think I have a good one.

I think I have a good one.

So I can't wait to hear theirs.

Thank you all.

Thank you for your support.

Remember, share the faith, Share the ghee.