Kevin Schaefer, along with his fellow geeky pals Andy Walsh, Jill Elizabeth, and Will Rose, digs deep into the origins of Daredevil in this special bonus episode of Systematic Geekology, all in honor of Earth Day! The crew unpacks how the tragic accident that blinds Matt Murdock intertwines with the legacy of Iron Fist, revealing some nifty Easter eggs about the Marvel Cinematic Universe. They explore the people who shaped Matt into the heroic figure we know, from his father Jack Murdoch to his mentor Stick, weaving a rich tapestry of inspiration and influence. With witty banter and a relaxed vibe, they not only geek out on the superhero's backstory but also reflect on broader themes of responsibility and morality. So, whether you’re a hardcore fan or just curious, this chat is a delightful blend of comic lore and thoughtful musings! Daredevil's origin story is a complex tapestry woven from tragedy, morality, and the intricate relationships that shape the hero he becomes.

The episode dives deep into Matt Murdock’s backstory, exploring how his childhood accident, which left him blind, is not just a pivotal moment for him but also a reflection of his innate sense of justice. The hosts, Kevin, Andy, Will, and Jill, dissect the connection between Daredevil and Iron Fist, particularly how Rand Enterprises plays a crucial role in Matt’s transformation into the vigilante we know. They highlight the idea that Matt’s blindness did not just rob him of sight but heightened his other senses, shaping him into a uniquely gifted fighter for justice. The discussion also touches on the importance of familial ties, particularly with his father, Jack Murdock, whose death at the hands of gangsters becomes a catalyst for Matt’s journey into the law and his nighttime escapades as Daredevil. The banter among the hosts adds a lively touch to the analysis, making the exploration feel like a conversation among friends rather than a formal review, which keeps the audience engaged and invested in the discussion.

Takeaways:

1. Daredevil's origin story is deeply rooted in tragedy, influencing his moral compass and drive for justice.
2. The connection between Daredevil and Iron Fist adds an intriguing layer to their respective origins in the MCU.
3. Matt Murdock's heightened senses serve as a metaphor for his internal struggle with morality and justice.
4. The role of mentors like Stick and Jack Murdock shapes Daredevil's character, showcasing the impact of relationships on identity.
5. Exploring the themes of responsibility and personal tragedy reveals the complex layers of Daredevil's character.
6. The podcast emphasizes how the experiences and influences behind superheroes can mirror our own life journeys.

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Be sure to check out our merch, find extra content, and become an official member of Systematic Geekology on our website:

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Listen to last year's Earth Day special where we discuss our favorite animated films for environmental awareness:

https://systematic-geekology.captivate.fm/episode/top-3-eco-friendly-animated-films-to-celebrate-earth-day/

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Check out all of our annual theme series for 2026, "The Faces Behind Us":

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/dd903597-98be-49ed-998c-5cdaf73b6af4

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Listen to our other Marvel episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/fb519d38-2d9b-4f82-b041-81b81613543c

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Check out other episodes with Kevin:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/84fd7d06-cf1f-48e5-b358-09a01c5a6bc9

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Check out other episodes with Will:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/4559ab55-4b6a-4432-b0a7-b61540df8803

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Listen to all of Andy's episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/c86f7a67-357b-4324-bf95-e42cedb9932a

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Hear all of our episodes with Jill:

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Mentioned in this episode:

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SG on Fourthwall

Foreign. How does Daredevil's origin intersect with Iron Fist company? Who are the faces behind the origin of Matt Murdock?

We are going to talk about this in the latest episode of our Faces Behind Us series. This is Systematic Ecology. We are the priest of the geeks and we are very excited to have you all here.

I am Kevin Schaefer, one of your hosts, and I am here with three of my favorite ecologists and we're going to talk all things daredev and connected to Iron Fist. I'm really excited for this one. So, Andy, Will, Jill, I am so excited to have you all here tonight. How are you all doing?

I'm well, thank you. To chat all things Daredevil.

Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm doing great too. And I just want to remind our listeners we're not geeking out for you, we're geeking out with you. So thank you for geeking out with us. There you go.

There you go. 100%. This is a, it's a community here. And yeah. And if you're new here, hey, thank you so much for joining us.

And with the million pop culture podcasts out there, I am glad you chose to click whether you're on YouTube or on whatever, wherever your podcast you clicked, listen or watched us. So we are grateful for you all here. Well, before we get started, I want to hear what you guys are geeking out on. So, Jill, we'll start with you.

What's. What's one thing lately a book, A.

World Appears by Michael Pollan. It's a journey into consciousness. A little bit of a neuroscience nerd.

And this is about the neuroscience of like plants and animals and what exactly defines consciousness? It sort of follows along this question that we're always asking here. What exactly does it mean to be human and what does it mean to be alive?

It's a fascinating read.

Nice.

That sounds nice.

Yeah.

Right on. Will, what about you?

Yeah, I actually went and saw Project Hail Mary for a second time, y'.

All.

And now that I knew it was gonna happen was going on, I can just settle into the details and the storytelling and I really paid attention to the soundtrack and how they were manipulating me with songs and scores. And they do such a good job. They do such a good job. I loved every second of it.

And I think the music, like even the very beginning when you start off and you like, he finds he's the only one on the ship and people he' trying to figure out who he is. But there's a light hearted music kind of playing in the background, so you know that he's going to kind of be okay.

Like, I was like noticing the choice of music and sounds and, and things like that and, and that. That was a lot of fun. So, yeah, that's what I'm geeking out on. Absolutely.

I love it. Andy, how many times have you seen it now? I'm curious.

I've only seen it the once. We're waiting for my son to come home to go again because he hasn't been able to see it up at college. But yeah, I just. Life.

I generally don't get to the movie theater for multiple showings of a movie that. That often.

Yeah, it's that. Yeah, that one I. I've seen twice as well. But. But yeah, I, I just know because again, that if. Yeah. A plug here for listeners out there.

Go back and listen to our what's News episode where we covered Hail Mary because especially Andy's thoughts on that. It's fascinating. Bringing the scientific background. But yeah, yeah, for me, my daughter.

Was taking a friend who hadn't seen yet, but she had seen it, and then we were like, we'll go see it with you. We don't have anything to do. So we, we went and. And it was great. And some of the trailers with that movie were pretty good too.

And I'm pretty, pretty excited about Mando coming up right around the corner. So I don't know when tickets go on side. I don't know when ticket tickets go on sale, but I'm keeping my lookout.

It's got to be soon because we're approaching one month away. But yeah.

Yep.

Been an hour.

All right. How about you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So on my end, I mean, obviously Born Again in conjunction with this epis. I mean, everyone knows how much I love Daredevil.

That's why I'm glad to be here. But I've also been watching the Born Again podcast, like the right after each episode. I'm really enjoying that. Like, I.

And that's the thing now the trend is like every TV show now has an official podcast that goes out and like, it's impossible to keep up with all of them. But that one I've really been enjoying. I like that it's not the same people on everyone. So they have like all.

They've kind of gone through all the cast. A Darius Gardapain, the executive producer, another producer on there.

So I like that it's a good variety instead of like one person on a time they've, you know, they've had Charlie Cox and Vincent d', Onofrio, Deborah Wool, Michael Gandolfini, Nikki M. James. So like, I like that it mixes it up and you get different perspectives from the cast and crew. So I've really enjoyed that. But yeah, nice.

Andy, what about you?

Yeah, we just caught up on the second season of the show, Paradise. I don't know how many folks have watched that. The first season I really enjoyed kind of the unraveling mystery and the sci fi of it all.

The second season I was less in on. They kind of shifted to focusing on a bunch of different characters primarily, and I wasn't that into it.

But then the final episode, man, they threw in an extra layer of sci fi premise and now I'm hooked for season three. I'm like, why couldn't that have been more. Season two been about that.

And instead of making me wait a whole other, I don't know, year two years with how TV goes anymore.

So funny. It's like a good comic book, Andy. It's like halfway through comics like, do I really want to keep reading this?

And then they get me on the final page, I'm like, ah, I got to see what happens next.

That's when I think I'm out. They pull me back in.

Yeah, that's it. That's it. I love it.

And also a quick shout out for a science, math and science paper that came out about building element all elementary functions from a single operator. It's a really cool thing. So it's kind of analogous in computers.

You can do all logical operations by combinations of a single single logical gate, the NAND gate. And so now they've found a way to build basically all the interesting mathematical functions from iterations of a single mathematical function.

So it was pretty, pretty cool. Unexpected result and could be interesting for building new kinds of computer chips or other kinds of numerical analysis.

It's not going to change how you teach math in third grade or even in high school, anything like that, but it could, it could change how we compute math in interesting ways.

Man, I like Annie. Annie you recommended when it was our interstellar conversation about the. The book that they kind of based it on. Was it like Time Warp by Kip Thorne?

I. I saw that in your sabbatical stack.

Yeah, I made like a big stack and book list for my sabbatical this summer. And that is. It's in there.

I don't know if it's going to go away in my head or how many times I have to read it or how much I have to Google while I'm reading it, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna give it a shot.

Excellent.

I love it. Oh, and also one I'll throw out real quick that we may have to do an episode on if I can find out which other hosts are into it.

But I just finished season one of Monarch Legacy of Monsters, and I'm gonna get a season two. But that one's. If you like the Kong Godzilla movies, like up the last 10 year, like, it's a really fun series and like, it's.

It's basically like a long movie. I mean, it's got movie level effects there. And Kurt and Wyatt Russell play older and younger versions of the same character in different timelines.

So it's a ton of great. The rest of the cast is really good too. That's a ton of fun.

So I. I definitely want to talk about that with other hosts here at some point, but, yeah, cool. Awesome. Well, thank you all for being here tonight or wherever, whenever you're listening to this.

And if you get a chance, please rate and review the show. It really helps us out. Tell your friends about it if you like us.

And if you don't like us, I mean, you know, send us, like, direct all complaints to Joshua Noel, you know, and then, you know, we'll see. We'll maybe take them into effect or not. But. But I do hope you do enjoy listening to us. And if you want a shout out on the show, you find.

Click on the links in the description to find out how you can support us. And tonight I want to give a shout out to Jonathan Augustine. Thank you so much. You rock.

And yeah, it's very easy to become a supporter of the show and you get a lot of perks that way and you get a shout out right here. So, yeah, as I said, so in this series, what we're kind of doing with the faces behind us is looking at.

Thinking about our favorite characters, our favorite stories, and looking at the people and events that influence them the most.

And so, you know, with Daredevil's origin, we've got a lot to look at, but one kind of like really fun Easter egg in the MCU not so really in the comics is that Iron Fist has a connection to Daredevil's origin.

So, you know, for those who don't know, Matt Murdock is blinded as a kid when he saves someone from getting hit by a truck and he gets knocked over and the truck spills out a vat of chemicals which then blinds him. And again, not in the comics, but in the mcu, this was during the Netflix era.

Now those shows are all on Disney plus, but during that era, the chemicals and the truck that, that hits Matt and his blindness, the. That truck comes from Rand Enterprises, which is the company from. Of Danny Rand, who becomes Iron Fist.

So we're going to be looking at that for this episode.

And also, I think, you know, we were talking about this with our host right before looking at also kind of the characters that are essential to Daredevil's origin. So stick. And then really, you know, his Catholic upbringing. There's a lot there to explore, so we're going to touch on other things as well.

But I'm really excited for this.

I mean, anyone who knows me knows I'm a big fan of the character both from the comics and then both iterations of the TV show from the Netflix era to the current Disney plus run with Born Again. But let's just go around what. So, Jill, we'll start with you. What's kind of your background with Daredevil?

Be it in comics and tv, it's kind of your background of the character.

First experience with Daredevil was that Netflix series, the first one? Well, no, my first experience was Ben Affleck as Daredevil in the movie.

And I loved it, which is not a popular opinion, but I was young and it was great. And then when the TV show came out, the Netflix show, I was really excited to explore Daredevil a little deeper.

And I actually haven't read a ton of the comics. I just know him from the TV show and then mcu and he is one of my favorite characters.

Oh, he's the best. I, I. And yeah, I mean, the, the Ben Affleck movie I also saw like when I was younger too. So I think I liked it more than as well.

I mean, like, yeah, if you watch it now, probably hasn't aged as well, but I mean, at the time, hey, it kind of fit. I mean, that and the Thomas Jane Punisher and some of those, like, they were, yeah, they're of their time, but they, they were fun back then.

Yeah, very.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, what about you?

Yeah, I'm, I was a Marvel geek, Marvel head as a kid.

And so when I was grabbing X Men comics and Avengers comics and I never grabbed Daredevil comics, but he was always, he was always great when he showed up as a cameo like a Spider man or the Avengers or X Men or whatever. And so I really, of course, liked him. Thought it was a neat, neat hero.

That Ben Affleck movie came out. Right. Didn't it come around there? Or they were. They were chasing 2,000. Yeah, they're chasing superhero money.

After the Spider man movies were doing great, and there was not the kind of the Sony verse, not necessarily the mcu. But I started collecting comics again.

I remember that movie came out, and I remember grabbing some comics and exploring what were kind of the legendary runs of Daredevil. So you had the Frank Miller and all those kinds of things, and so went back and consumed all that. But, yeah, he's Up There.

He's Up There is one of my favorites. And I think the show and way he's been portrayed, not just the Netflix but the Disney plus re MCU version of Of Time Back in, is pretty smart. And I.

And I like how he's done. He's a. He's a great character. So, yeah, I'm a fan.

I also, I. I did have the Ben Affleck Daredevil action figure when I was a kid too. So that was. Yeah, it was. Again, that was there. So, yeah. Andy, what about you? I know also you have a big comics background.

Yeah, I think one of the very first, if not the first single issue comics that I bought for myself was a random issue of Daredevil, you know, 300 and something with the owl. You know, it was probably part three of five of some ongoing storyline or whatever. You know, I only kind of understood what I was.

What I was looking at. But, yeah, that was. That was an early introduction. Didn't. Didn't stick with the character for too much.

Then there were a lot of X Men comics in the 90s, and I had, you know, a teenager's source of income. So. But, you know, he was. He was an intriguing character.

And then, you know, since more recently kind of gone back, you know, everybody talks about, oh, this. This run on Daredevil is legendary and this run in Daredevil is legendary and so forth.

And so probably read Most of the 21st century Daredevil comics just because, you know, all of them just kind of get recommended as, oh, this is, you know, an important one. Especially, you know, I think for me, the standout is the Mark Waid and Chris Stamney run.

I love that one.

But there are, you know, Lots of, lots of good Daredevil comics over the years from a bunch of different creators. And then, yeah, you know, I watched the.

I watched the show for a while when it came out, the Netflix show fell off of it a little bit, went back to and picked up the rest of it before Born Again. And then I've been following along with that. And the, the director's cut of the.

The Affleck Fox movie is definitely, if you going to give it a try, see if you can watch the director's cut because it is. It is better and gives more attention to Matt as. And Coolio gets a extended appearance, placing it very firmly in timeline.

It is, right? Yeah, no, that one's.

And, well, I also was listening to a podcast about a week ago with Drew Goddard, who's the longtime screenwriter, and like, he wrote the screenplays for project Hail Mary and the Martian, but he developed the Netflix show and originally he pitched it as a movie. So, like, he was a. He was talking about the origins of it there. But yeah, so.

And I, I think for me, one of the things I love about Daredevil the most is really there's. To me, there's three main layers to his character beyond the.

I'm not even talking just the vigilante superhero aspect, but three kind of aspects of Matt Murdock to make him central to who he is. There's the disability element, where, again, he's blinded as a kid.

There's the Catholicism, which is very central to his character and a big source of motivation for why he wants to go and fight crime.

And then the lawyer element is like, you know, he's trying to bridge both sides of, you know, like, abiding by the law during the day and then literally breaking it at night to enact his own form of justice. And I find all of those elements fascinating.

And Andy, like you were saying, I think the reason that there are so many great runs of this character is different writers kind of add their own flair to the character and add their own identity. So, like the Mark Wade run, which I love is a little. Has more levity to it than some of the others and really great storytelling there.

I think the Charles Soule one brings a lot of Soul's background as an attorney, and he's able to bring that into it. And. And that run was this big source of inspiration for the Born Again series.

And then ones like Chip Zdarsky incorporates a lot more of the Catholicism elements into it. So I just, you know, he's such a fascinating character that you can really take him in different directions and focus on different themes. So.

So yeah, looking at his origin. Well, first, is anyone want. Because you know, we were talking about this. The.

The Iron Fist connection with that again is specifically in the mcu, not in the comics. But now admittedly, I did not watch a lot of Iron Fist. I'm sorry to Finn Jones and company, but it wasn't really my favorite of the.

I did watch Defenders, so I saw. But does anyone want to add anything to that aspect of how. What Rand Enterprises is.

And again, you know how that relates to Matt's accident that anyone wants to add to that?

I just hear that I like Iron Fist as a. As a character in the comics. Like the whole run with him and Luke Cage as heroes for hire and having their. Their kind of team up.

You know, you have this kind of white boy kung fu guy with like strong man Luke Cage, former prisoner, who are out and they are. They're involved in. In Hell's Kitchen too, right? Aren't they like neighborhoods around Daredevil in the comics.

And that's why they kind of brought him in with the Defenders. And I've always kind of enjoyed Iron Fist as a character.

I know Netflix was kind of the weak link that kind of kind of definitely tore down superhero fatigue or was right there amidst of all of it. But. But in the comics as a character is really neat. And I think Matt Fraction and Rimeters run back with David Aja is how you say it, J A David Aja.

They. Their run on Iron Fist is just super good. And it kind of talks about his as a superhero. He just. He wrestles with attention of being a CEO of a.

Of a corporation that he's inherited with wanting to be a superhero and do justice as well. So you have that kind of dynamic of how do you become like a benevolent CEO of a big company and a superhero during. During the day, you know.

Anyway, I just find his. I like his character, I like his origin and then how he plays out with those others in New York are trying to bring justice to be superheroes.

And so how they try to pull them in together in Netflix and then what happens later, I don't know. But the comics. The comics are really a lot of fun.

Yeah. And I like that was. I think one thing that, yeah, they could have done a bit and I.

They could still do in the future is like do more with Iron Fist and Luke Cage together because they are a great team up. You know, like, I thought the Defenders was decent, but you know, so, you know Somewhat forgettable in relation to the others, but.

Jill, did you watch all of the Netflix series at the time or which. Were there any that you were, like, really into?

No, I didn't watch all of them. I watched Daredevil because, you know, my whole access point to these comics is my son, and that was one that he watched and liked.

And then Punisher we watched. I didn't finish it, but he finished that series. Yeah, but I didn't really know.

Yeah, yeah, it's. I mean, like, it was just. I watched a little bit of it, but. Yeah.

And then by the time, like, I. I already, like, I think I heard season two got a little better, but then, of course, got canceled after that. But I'm. I'm curious where they'll go now. I mean, it's very clear. We're getting Jessica Jones later in this season of Born Again.

I'm pretty sure we're gonna see Blue Cage again soon. So it sounds like they're getting the gang back together.

Obviously, Punisher has this one shot coming soon, so it'll be cool to see all those characters come together. But getting back to. So the origin here, I mean, you know, it's iconic of like a superhero element.

With Norton, it's either particular in the Marvel Universe, it's either, you know, an accident or, you know, something giving ordinary human strange powers. Right. And anyway, Daredevil is no different. Granted, I think his stands out because it's very much rooted in tragedy here. But at the same time, the.

It gives him a different kind of enhanced powers. He's able to. All his other senses are heightened here. And so.

So looking at just the accident, the origin of Matt Murdock, what are some elements of it that really stand out to you and that, you know, how this accident. Because obviously it's not, you know, this happens when he's a kid. Obviously, he doesn't start fighting crime right away after that.

That's what I think separates, you know, like, Spider man gets the spider bite. You know, he starts fighting crime not too long after that. Right. Matt is a kid when this happens.

It's going to be a while before he actually becomes Daredevil. But what do you think really? You know, how is this point in his life a turning point that sets him on the road to becoming a superhero for anyone?

Oh, you mentioned. Mentioned Spider Man. You know, the.

The big contrast there is that, you know, Matt Murdock already feels a heavy burden of responsibility before he has great power. And that's how he. That's how the Accident occurs, he feels obliged to intervene on behalf of this other person. So, you know, he.

He's not learning lessons as a, you know, after. As a consequence of. Of developing superpowers, but really he's.

He's figuring out how to incorporate what his newfound abilities and disabilities, how they factor into his already strong sense of right and wrong and strong sense of personal responsibility.

It's like the accident heightens all of his other senses, including his internal drive to do good and to do right by humanity. And he could never have been Daredevil without that accident. But I actually think it's the two tragedies that. That make him.

First, it's the chemical spill, and then it's the death of his dad. And I think if there were just one or the other, he, Matt Murdock, would not become Daredevil.

But it actually needs both of those tragedies to cause him to become who.

He is now in the. In the comics and origin. What came first, him going to law school and then become a Daredevil? Or is he Daredevil and they go to law school?

Do we know what came first with that?

Was it like he was a lawyer and he felt compelled to be Daredevil at night to help and supplement the justice that isn't being done and courtroom that he's doing or. Or that. I. I'm not. I'm not sure because I would find that. That interesting. What came first?

So he trains with Stick when he's pretty young. Like, it's like. It's like the accident, then battling Jack Murdoch. Yeah, we'll talk about Jack Murdock in a sec.

And then he trains with stick for a long time. And then, because I'm basing this off the Man Without Fear, which is kind of the definitive origin comic, but then it was a law school, and then.

Yeah, it's around that time when he first, like, suits up. But it. It sort of. It kind of parallels Batman in a way of, like, I would say he's training to be, like, to become that.

That character for a long time. But then he, like, actually. And he.

Correct me, right, but he actually, like, you know, puts on the suit, the black suit, the first time, you know, like, after law school.

Well, it's a red and yellow suit. It's a primarily yellow suit, actually.

Yeah, that's right.

In the comics, the black suit is.

The TV show and some other versions. But yeah, he has the training, like you said. But as Will noted, it's the. Seeing that the justice system has holes, is failing. Can Be corrupt.

That motivates him to engage in extralegal activities.

And you think about like comics or superhero origins or in the movies, that there's like a handful of ways you can acquire superhuman abilities, right? You are a mutant. You're born that way.

You're gifted something from outside of you, like a magic ring or some power source or something that gifts you with some ability. And then there's like an accident or something's gone wrong, whether you're the Hulk or you're Spider man or you're Daredevil.

And some of this is Stan Lee and Jack Kirby trying to think of origins and what could give this person some powers.

And oh, you know, a radiated truck, you know, with toxins in it, you know, that may have gone down in the sewers and given some turtles some superpowers too. I don't know. That's out there somewhere. I don't know if that happened or if that's canon or not.

Whether the same spill that gave Daredevil his powers gave the Mutant Ninja Turtles theirs. I think that's somewhere. But anyway, but, but there's a handful of ways to do it. So what do you do with your power once you're given it?

And we've talked about the four before of like, you know, do I use this as, as a self centered thing or for villainy or to wreak havoc on others because I experience or do I use it for, for good? And so this accident, I think, you know, yes, it's tragic, it's horrible.

And yet he uses this gift in a way that heightens the way he sees justice or wants to give justice to the world through his gifts of being a lawyer. So, yeah, it's all tied together. It's really interesting how to play on that.

And I think, you know, like it. Joe, like you said, it's. I think the, the two defining incidents are the accident that blinds him and then the death of his father, Jack Murdock.

But I think, you know, Jack is one we can particularly look at in terms of the faces behind us and like the characters who really influence Matt Murdock. But there are really several because you have, you have Jack Murdock, you have Stick, you have Foggy Nelson.

And actually the series right now has done a really, did a really interesting thing in this week's episode with how. Just how much Foggy influences Matt's moral compass. So I mean, that's something we could do a whole episode on. But.

But yeah, I, I really love the relationship between Matt and Jack Murdoch. As, you know, like I.

Like you were saying, Jill, it's like Matt is already infused with responsibility and kind of a moral compass, and the circumstances to you only heighten all of that.

Love it.

Love it.

Yeah.

Yep. It's like the circumstances that happen to you reveal your true character. Right. Which way you're gonna go.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then you go for. And it's like, Jack was the, you know, very much a fighter, but also, you know, a compassionate father.

They had, you know, this relationship, and then, you know, his next, like, I hesitate to even say father figure, but, you know, like.

But his next mentor is Stick, who is, you know, really without any kind of softness or compassion, is a very hard edge, grizzly, you know, Eastwood type figure who, like, is also blind and, you know, becomes the mentor that trains Matt how to fight. But he does so through a grueling, you know, almost villainous manner. So I. Stick is always a really fascinating character, Jill.

Guys, especially, you know, you watching just like the Netflix series, like, what were your thoughts on that character? Especially, like, Scott Glenn playing him? Oh, perfection there.

Yes. And like you said, like, relentless. It's funny, I never thought about this analogy until right now.

When you're saying it, it kind of reminds me of Mike Tyson, who's also from New York, and like, his father figure was Casamotto, who just. He wasn't the trainer, but he was like the.

Well, I guess, yeah, he was the trainer and the man that Mike Tyson lived with that taught him to become such a brutal fighter. But what Mike Tyson didn't have was his first father figure wasn't compassionate and loving the way that Daredevils was.

It just, like popped in my head right now as you were talking.

I love it. That's a great comparison there. Yeah. Yeah. The way, like, people influence, again, it has, you know, it does so much to who they become.

Yeah, well, and that brings me to this question, because I'm thinking about this and, like, you know, obviously the accident is a defining part of the origin, but, like, I wonder, you know, it. Like, imagine if that had not happened. Let's take it out of the equation for just that.

Do you think that, you know, Matt Murdock still would have become Daredevil? I mean, obviously, would it be a blind career? But, like, what path would he have gone on if he hadn't had that?

But let's say still had, you know, Jack Murdoch die, is killed by gangsters, all of that still happens. He still infused with Catholic morality. He still proceeds justice.

Like, I wonder, do you have any thoughts on where Matt Murdock's life might have gone without the accident?

Joe, I'd love to hear your answer, because I like your thoughts on the accident or accidents or things that occur to us in our life journey reveals our true character and how we react to that. So if this hadn't happened to him, what, is there a catalyst?

Is there something else that would have sparked something else or just been the best, best lawyer in town kind of thing?

That's exactly what I think. I think he would have continued on his education trajectory and have been an attorney.

But, you know, the open and relational theologian in me says that God doesn't cause awful things to happen, doesn't cause disasters to happen to us. However, like God or the universe will use all of those things to work for the our best. Always.

Yeah.

And so I think without that accident, we just get like, maybe a great public defender, maybe a great attorney, Matt Murdock. But I'm trying to think how to say this. Well, you know, Will, when you did the podcast about sinners, and they talked about, like, the importance of.

In the Mississippi Delta, like the black church needed the blues juke joint to exist side by side. Like, they both needed each other. And one without the other doesn't give you, like, full humanity. And I almost feel the same way.

Like, Matt Murdock, with the accident of his dad would give him some motivation to do good and to like, maybe put, like, the gangsters of the world in their place, but without that other incident, that other great thing, horrible thing that happened to him, that he needed both to become who he is.

I love that. Yeah.

I had a counselor once when I was wrestling with a hard decision, and I was really kind of torn between two different kind of forks in the road kind of thing. And it would have been an alternate timeline, a big alternate timeline if I chose one or the other, you know, kind of kind of thing.

And she looked at me and she's like, look, you know, maybe take the pressure off of it and say that whatever, whatever you decide to do, whatever road you decide to go down, God will bless it or redeem it. And. And that kind of took the pressure off. Off me. Now, of course, my actions, my decisions, matters, but it also takes off, like, you know, there.

I'm not alone in this, and there. There's a cooperation that goes along with me in terms of the. The divine and my friends and community. That's a part of me.

And so I think, like, yeah, his true nature would have been. I'm Going to be the best lawyer I can be and stand up for justice. But this extraordinary gift of heightened senses and this kind of radar.

Radar ability to perceive life deeper, you know. Yeah. That kind of blind justice.

You know, it's interesting that there's a lawyer who's blind, but yet there's other ways he experiences the world that are gifts to those around him. And yeah, maybe, Kevin, you can speak to that as someone who, you know, is in the disability world and has experienced ableism and all those things.

Like, you know, would you be who you are without how you experience the world?

Oh, and that's one of the reasons, like, Daredevil is one of my favorite characters is like, I, I always like the. How they handle that aspect, but I dance to that for myself personally. Yeah, I, you know, I talk about that all the time in my column.

Like, I mean, you know, SMA is very intrinsic to my identity and like, I definitely would not trade it for, you know, if I, like, was given.

If I was given somewhere about, like, oh, if you could live like, able bodied, I'm like, no, I wouldn't because there are so many people in my life I would have never met, you know, like, I mean, like, caregivers, including, I mean, but like, so, you know, some of my best friends, like, I, you know, it's very much been a part of it. And I like Joe. I very much agree.

It's like, you know, it's like circumstances happen and then you still have this choice of, you know, how you want to respond and you're going to be. But, but, yeah, no, for me, I, like, I, I think that that's why I like, you know, Daredevil story so much.

I think, you know, it very much speaks to disability community in that respect.

Yeah, love that. Thanks, Kevin.

Yeah. But, Andy, what. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I know we're throwing out, like, a lot of topics on here, and again, there are like multiple people behind there. So, like, are there any of like Stick or Foggy or Jack Murdoch or anyone?

Or is there anyone that really stands out to you in particular that resonates with you?

I don't think necessarily, you know, his life is. His life story is a very different one from. From my own. And so, like, those kinds of relationships don't necessarily land in. In the same way.

You know, I, I do. You know, I would echo that.

You know, I think it makes a lot of sense that, that, that, you know, Matt Murdock was already on a trajectory to be some kind of champion for the less fortunate. And so, you know, that seems plausible. And, you know, as. As a. You know, he probably. You know, obviously the.

The radar sense and all that is, you know, is a specific feature of how he got his powers or whatever. But it turns out that there are actually human beings that have taught themselves how to echolocate.

So, you know, it's possible that if he was properly motivated, he could have even developed some level of that kind of way of navigating the world. But, yeah, that was kind of my only other thought from trying to bring in a little bit more science flavor.

Yeah. Like, to have that ability as a lawyer to hear whether somebody's heartbeat goes up because they're lying. Like, you're a human lie detector.

You know, you can walk around, tell. It gives you an upper hand in the courtroom, for sure. And the art you've thrown up here is. That's Samney, right.

That's part of Sammy's run with Mark Wade.

I think definitely that. That center panel, some of the other ones may have come from other places, but.

But, man, find. Find Mark Wave. Sam Knee, like one of the best artists in the game of comics, and I'm gonna go hunt that down after this episode for sure.

But, man, so, so good. So good.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. I just love that there. I mean, there's so many layers, both.

It's like his powers, all the aspects of his origin, the people around him. Yeah. You know, and, you know, I. Andy, is there anything else you want to. Because do you watch all of the Netflix shows?

I know, again, this episode started with, like, the connection of Iron Fist Daredevil, but is there anything else you want to say to that?

Yeah, I mean, it really is more on the level of kind of an Easter egg. I. I don't recall from the. The Iron Fist series that anything really more was made of that. You know, certainly there was a. There was a storyline in.

In that show of the malfeasance of the earlier generation of brand enterprise stewards and the ways in which they, you know, misused company resources and, you know, so that there's a. There's an arc, you know, a big part of the. The show and, you know, especially the first season.

And I think part of why people were a little underwhelmed is that it was a lot more corporate business room dealing and less kung fu action. As, you know, Danny Rand wrestles with how to, you know, the legacy of being.

Of inheriting this company after having spent many years in the east, sort of disconnected from all of, all of the wealth and the privilege and so forth that came with it. And so, yeah, but there isn't a specific moment in the snow where they go, oh, and we were up to this specific no good activity.

And that's why there was a truck laden with toxic chemicals hurtling down the street in Manhattan or anything like that. But there's certainly, yeah, like I said, there's a general theme of we don't have the best interests of the public at heart.

And so you can believe that perhaps there was something your corners were cut there, if nothing else, that led to Daredevil's situation.

And that's why I love this series that we're doing about the Faces behind us, because it's so layered. Every one of us have that kind of layered influence in terms of experiences and people and situations and communities.

The blessings and the challenges and the tragedies shape us who we are.

So I really love examining are these heroes or these IPs that we really love to be entertained by and then reflect on our own lives to see the face behind us. So, yeah, I love this exercise and I love what this thought experiment and things we're doing with the series. So, yeah, well done.

It's a blast. And yeah, I know there's a lot of great ones in this series.

And speaking of that, again, you can check out the show notes here and see for the other episodes in the series. And Joshua wanted me to plug that. The next one will be him and regular systematic ecology Tolkien expert Nick Polk.

The Joshua Nick will be doing another Tolkien themed episode on the Faces Behind Us. So you don't want to miss that. It'll be really good. And well, guys, I also, I forgot to come up with a bonus question, but I just thought of one.

So we'll do after the main regard.

But the bonus question, if you want to stick around after we'll be if you could pair Daredevil with any MCU character, put him in another movie TV show for an appearance, who would that be? So we're gonna be talking about that in a minute. But. But yeah, guys, this has been a blast.

I always, you know, I, I could keep going on, especially on this topic for hours. Daredevil's my favorite Marvel character. So this is a ton of fun.

And before we go to any recommendations y' all want to throw out either related to this topic or something totally different.

I highly recommend reading that.

And it goes into the origin story and other perhaps other iron Fists out there and this kind of legacy character of an iron fist that's been passed on one to the other, not just one. And then the art and it goes into the Rand Corporation, the responsibilities he has to jug around. So really good stuff.

Very cool. Jill, what about you?

We've said it already, but the Born Again series, I just really recommend it. I think it's fantastic. I finally just started the second season, so I'm a little behind where you're at, Kevin, but I'm loving it.

Oh, let me know when you caught up because it's like there was a lot of big stuff happening in the last two episodes especially.

Okay.

But yeah, but it's been great. Yeah, awesome. Andy, what about you?

Just for folks looking for Will's recommendation, which I would second, that book was called Immortal Iron Fist and it was Ed Brubaker who co wrote at least some of it if you're trying to look it up that way. But Marvel doesn't need us to plug much more that heavily. So I'll plug Paul o' Brien does on his blog for his podcast.

House to Astonish has been doing a read through of the original Daredevil comics, like the original run of Daredevil and the origin of the various Daredevil villains. So it's ostensibly weekly. I think it averages more like two or three a month on Sundays. There's probably 30 or 40 of them up by now.

But yeah, if you go to housetoastonished.com there's also X Men reviews and podcast episodes and things there, but you can browse through on the first page or two you should be able to find a Daredevil blog post and then you can link from there to the rest of the series.

So yeah, check those out for his insights on what worked and what didn't work about early Daredevil because it is really, it's quite eye opening to see how those early stories contrast with kind of the modern conception of Daredevil. Daredevil. You know, you talked about all the layers to that character, but they were definitely added over time.

He's been sort of built up over the many years and so yeah, to get a sense of the contrast between what early Daredevil comics were like versus the modern interpretations and the modern adaptations is interesting. Plus, there's just lots of goofy villain concepts to be amused by.

Oh, I like that. That I'm definitely going to check out. But yeah. And then for me, actually. Well, since you brought up Matt Fraction, I'm actually.

So I'm gonna recommend Monarch because I. I didn't know until I started watching it, but Mad Fraction is the co. Creator of the series. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's one of the first creators that I met at a Comic Con when I went to Hero Con in Charlotte because he used to work for Heroes aren't hard to find in Charlotte. He's a North Carolina native and did that. And his new run on. On Batman is. Is outstanding. He was in.

He was a big thing in Marvel for a while and I think they kind of chewed him up and spit him out. And then he went some indie route and then he's done a few things here and there. But his newest Batman is just outstanding.

I read one of his Batman comics where he's having a conversation with the. The Joker and I, I just looked up and looked at my wife and said, I think that was one of the best comics I've ever read. And she was like, what?

And I was like, I. I think that.

Thanks.

I think, I think, I think it. This is, this is up there. So anyway, I didn't know he was a writer on. On Mark. That's good. I'm glad he's getting gigs like that.

Yeah, he's good because like. Yeah, yeah.

And I remember like when they did the Hawkeye series, like that intro was taken straight from his work and they never credited him or anything. So. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's a. It's the unfortunate side of. Of the business side of like the big two and all that, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nice.

Awesome.

Well, everyone, thank you so much for tuning in, listening again, you know, rate, review the show, check out the links in the description for the rest of the series and for ways that you can become a supporter. You can get merchandise, all kinds of stuff here. And we're all over social media and Discord, so check us out. We would love to connect with you all.

And again, stick around for the bonus question if you're one of our supporters. And remember, we are all a chosen people, a geekdom of. The.