Joshua and Christian pick up part two of their Birth by Sleep deep-dive, wrapping up the game's story — Terra's fall and fusion with Xehanort, Aqua's sacrifice in the Realm of Darkness, Ventus slipping into Sora's heart — and tease how those beats feed into the larger Kingdom Hearts canon. Joshua rambles with affectionate geek energy about lore, worldbuilding, and how the Disney worlds land emotionally, while Christian fires off structured takes about narrative mechanics, Star Wars parallels, and why Birth by Sleep still slaps as a top-tier entry. They debate gameplay bits (PSP hardware who? this played like a full console release), rate the game sky-high, and nerd out over features they'd love to see again — D-Link antics, multi-perspective worlds, and even an Inside Out crossover if Nomura’s feeling spicy. The conversation leans into the series’ recurring motif of “faces behind us”: mentorship, failed teaching, and friendship as both balm and blindfold, with both hosts sharing which character arcs they personally vibe with. If someone needed a one-stop recap before Kingdom Hearts 4 hype, Joshua and Christian deliver the lore, laughs, and recommendations (yes, play it; yes, read the light novel) with chill banter and surprisingly deep theological-level pondering about darkness, anger, and nuance.

Joshua and Christian deliver a lights-on appraisal of Birth by Sleep’s gameplay and worldcraft, giddily surprised that such heft came out of what was essentially a portable-era title. Christian gushes about the D-Link system, crafting, and the beautifully purposeful use of Disney worlds—Stitch, Cinderella, Maleficent all slot into character arcs rather than mere fan-service. Joshua marvels that the PSP-era presentation doesn’t feel small: cutscenes, pacing, and emotional heft make it feel like a full-numbered mainline entry. Both agree it’s a 10 within the franchise, citing character work (Aqua hype!), lore payoff, and the sense that the game was beloved enough that Nomura found ways to revive characters fans couldn’t bear to lose.

They speculate on what to borrow for Kingdom Hearts 4: tighter, multi-perspective worlds; more dynamic combat like KH3; and, selfishly, a return of D-Link-style mechanics so Sora can steal Donald’s spells in style. Christian hopes for Inside Out to get pulled into the roster (perfect fit for the emotions-as-worlds angle), while Joshua wants Donald and Goofy reunited with Sora pronto. Practical recs land too: preferred play orders (Terra–Ventus–Aqua vs. Ventus-first for emotional anchoring), and shout-outs to the Birth by Sleep light novel for folks who aren’t gamers but still want the story. The summary reads like a gamer-to-gamer love letter: choreography of combat, tears for lore, and wishlist items for the future.

Takeaways:

• Joshua riffs that Birth by Sleep brilliantly blends the idea of a guiding heart with the heart's deceitful tendencies, teaching both hope and wary caution.
• Christian points out Terra, Aqua, and Ventus function as deliberate foils to Sora/Riku/Kairi, exploring mentorship failures, manipulation, and the cost of misplaced trust.
• They agree the lore is dense and sometimes convoluted, yet praise Nomura's worldbuilding for delivering emotional heft and layered historical connections.
• Joshua and Christian geek out over Aqua's tragic arc and Ventus ending up inside Sora's heart — both plot beats the fans absolutely clamored to see revisited.
• On gameplay, the hosts dig the D-Link system and PSP-era technical chops, but they want Kingdom Hearts 3’s faster, flashier combat sensibilities to return.
• Christian neatly argues against demonizing emotions: anger and sadness aren't inherently evil, and Birth by Sleep raises needed nuance about using darkness for ends.
• They recommend reading the Birth by Sleep light novel and suggest playing Ventus first, Terra second, and Aqua last for maximum narrative payoff.
• Joshua gets real near the end — the episode nudges listeners to watch, pray, and shut up sometimes, listen more, and surround themselves with folks who keep them honest.

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Should you let your heart be your guiding key? Or should you just remember that the heart is deceitful above all else?

Somehow Birth by Sleep Kingdom Hearts seems to be teaching us both as we continue discussing Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep. This is part two of that episode because we went longer than anticipated which why didn't we anticipate that? Great question. I should have.

I'm Joshua Noel here with the one and only Christian Ashley. Ready to talk more about Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep, which is what I'm geeking out on.

I'm on my like 500th around playing all the Kingdom Hearts games. Finally finished Kingdom Hearts 3 manga because I finally were able to get it in English. I've read all the light novels. I'm a geek.

I don't feel like I need to like do anything else to flex my geek cred. Christian, flex some cred for him. How geeky are you?

Nice. I just love hearing the titles. Sometimes just the titles are like yeah, yeah, that's great. I. I miss when we could just be that. You know.

Sometimes you still get it but it's usually like sci fi. Feeling like I want that stuff did the theater just the absolute. You're like yeah, Return of Ape Man. Let's do it. The Beagle strikes again. Again.

Again. Woo. That's the title. As we want to thank one of our financial supporters today I'm going to shout out Jeannie Mattingly, one of my aunts.

Thank you so much for supporting our show. If you want your own shout out, you too can become an official member of Systematic Geekology. Be like genie. Get your own shout out.

All you gotta do is go to the link in the shows description, go to the website, you become an official member. You can also get some free extra content. You can buy some merch, you can leave a one time financial gift.

There's a lot of stuff you can do without becoming a member. So the website isn't like members exclusive.

We do appreciate it if you want to become a member though it does help us but there's other things to do over there so check it out. You can also check out a link in the show description for all of our Kingdom Hearts episodes.

So there's plenty of links, different stuff in the show's description.

Make sure you go down there, read all that click some links because it's just a good way for you to get a part of the geeky goodness that we're doing here. And we do this for community, for friendship. We don't just do this for. We definitely don't do this for money. We don't get money out of this.

And we certainly don't do it for fame. So we're hoping you guys just join in the community, talk with us or we have some good conversations. That's really why we're doing this.

So, you know, be like Donald and Goofy, befriend somebody by joining in the geeky goodness and talking to us. You want to be Christian's friend? Now is the time.

Protect the world.

Border with me. Now that we're going to jump back, no muddling, we're going to jump back into some Kingdom hearts nonsense, I guess you could say.

So where we left off, we were talking about Birth by sleep.

We were at the part of the story Terra and Master Eraqus had a conflict because Terra's been manipulated this whole time, slowly falling into darkness. And Luke Sky, I mean, Mark Hamill, I mean Master Eraqus.

Yes.

Confronts him, realizes the only way to defeat the darkness is to defeat his own pupil, Terra, who's also kind of being manipulated because he doesn't get the whole story from Xehanort, AKA the Emperor. It just fits too well. Guys, it's crazy. Aqua sees this kind of stuff going on.

Ventus is in the mix, who's just there so that we can have some more story that involves Sora from here. Christian, you have that conflict where Master Eric is confronts Tara.

Give a little bit more context to that for those who are just jumping in from now and tell me what happened in the story from there. How do we wrap up Birth by sleep?

Yeah.

So after Eric is is gone due to the actions of Tara and Xehanort manipulating him, we have our three friends, like, kind of on the outs with each other for the most part. And that leads us to Xehanort declaring his intentions to go to the Keyblade graveyard where the Keyblade warriors of the past once fought.

And in a very stunning visual that see all these keyblades like key down in the ground from all the many lives that were lost here. And this is where, you know, Vanitas and Ventus fight each other.

Aqua gets on the scene as Terra has been taken over by Xehanort to take his body and heart to get a younger body for himself because he's not going to be around that much. Longer, even though he is, but, you know, Kingdom Hearts nonsense. And this has led to the conflict of Aqua trying to save her friends.

She's barely able to get Ventus away in the Land of Departure, stealing it away from everyone else who could possibly go there so that his heart isn't stolen for Xehanort to create the. The Keyblade. The Kai Blade. The Keyblade, however heck you want to say it depends on who's pronouncing it.

So he can use this to open the doors of Kingdom Hearts. Is it the place? Is it the concept? Is it whatever we say it is? Yes. And that is where Aqua confronts Xehanort.

And Terror's body one more time, unfortunately is thrown into darkness as a result of that living in the realm of darkness for the next 10 years. So this is what is known as a downer ending, which, if you know me, is typically not the thing I love.

Because they typically are meant to make you feel bad. But this one is no. To explain the events of what came before. We can't have them around. So how's that possible?

Well, they did what they could and failed. So, you know, there's still hope in the future. And this being influenced by Star Wars. Good. Star wars inspires hope in its audience.

Yeah. Also, it does remind me a lot of Rogue One. You're like, you kind of know. Yeah, they're not going to be successful at the end. But it's so good.

Yeah, I think too. So important, important lore stuff. Right. Ventus ends up in Sora's heart because why wouldn't he?

Because they connected.

I just don't even think we need to explain that everyone ends up in Sora's heart for some reason.

Yeah.

Tara getting morphed with the Xehanort ends up being really important because after Aqua defeats him, you still have this morphed. What I think where you usually the fans just call the Terraza Nort, who forgets all of his past so he doesn't remember anything.

And that's when he ends up in Radiant Garden, which for those who care about such things, that's where Kyrie is born.

Yes.

And Enze Nort. And Terra Xehanort in Radiant Gardens gets taken in by Anthem the Wise. And that's where you see Zehan orden. Kingdom Hearts 2, who is his like pupil.

I think they're just trying to explain away personally. But that's why he's not a Keyblade wielder at that point.

He's just forgot who he was and kind of learns as he's doing these experiments with Ansem the Wise, who. Anson the Wise had another pupil who I think was Braig, who ends up becoming Zigbar the Nobody was more of.

A bounty hunter, mercenary kind of guy.

As well. And he didn't. He never liked Xehanort.

It's complicated.

Yeah. Yeah. But also another fun part, if you remember. I can't remember the guy's name now, man. Who was it who has the. The keyblade with the eye?

Masters. Are you talking Luxu?

No, the guy he gave it Luxu. Luxu is actually inhibiting. Is actually taking over Briggs body. Which means he's also ends up kind of being in Zip Bar.

And that's a whole nother sideline. But if you remember that part of the story when we talked about the mobile games. At this point in the story, Lucia Luxu is taking over Braig's body.

So when you go to Ansem the Wise, you have Ansem the Wise, Braig Luxu, and also now this Terror Xehanort. They're in Radiant Gardens. We'll get to that story later. But that's kind of how the story ends. With Terra over there. His heart still partially lost.

I think she kind of saved. Doesn't she save Terra's heart in Riku though? So that mostly only affects ants. It only affects Xehanort. What happened with Terra's body?

I think Terra's heart ends up in Riku. Maybe.

I think it ends up in Riku's body. I think it's.

For some reason. I thought she hid. I thought she hid his heart somehow.

Once again, it's been a while since I've replayed that. I don't remember. Something funky happens.

I know. Ventus ends up in Sora.

What part of Ventus ended up in Sora? His body remains in a limited departure. Yeah. Because it would be.

Yeah, because she fights him.

And as a result of that it messes with the fusion of Xehanort and Terra to the extent where there's a possibility he can come back. That's also where the Guardian we get from Not Ansem and one eventually is revealed as kind of part of Terra. And that's where some of him kind.

Of remains, I think. Oh, that's right. That Heartless is his thing. And then Lingering Will is created from Tara's mind.

Yeah. Is Will left in the armor to try and get back his body?

Okay. But he ends up getting restored in Kingdom Heart. All of them end up restored in Kingdom Hearts 3.

So this is not Only important because it leads into Kingdom Hearts one. But we actually. These characters don't just die, which is crazy, but, you know, is what it is.

I really think that most of that is just because the characters were all so loved, because the character work in this game was just so well done that I think they just kind of realized they couldn't let the character stay dead because the fans liked him too much.

Fair.

And as much as Nomura likes to make fun of us and give us things that we hate, we're like, why are you putting so much story in mobile games? So then he puts more story in mobile games, and we're like, no, we're tired of 2.5 and 2.8. You know what?

Kingdom Hearts 3, I'm going to start it with 2.9. That's what he does. But sometimes he also was like, the fans like this too much. I'll find a reason to come back to life. It's fine.

Yeah, Only Star wars can learn that with Mace Windu. We'd be so much better off. All right, so I think that gets us through most of the story. Aqua left in the Land of Darkness.

Ventus heart is partially in Sora.

Terra's heart is suppressed inside of the Terra Xehanort body that's now at Radiant Gardens with no memories and learning air quotes under Anthem the Wise. So, all that said, how would you rate and review if you were going to give this a rating? 0 To 10 for Kingdom Hearts? Birth by sleep.

Where are you putting it?

This is a 10, baby. Like, I absolutely adore this game.

It's got a fun enough crafting system, which I normally don't care about, but, you know, you give me the ability to use new spells, I will look up the guide. I will get the work done. Oh, the XP Walker. I have to go to this place and kill the specific thing a couple of times.

That means that every time I take a step, I get xp. Okay. I'm in. The Disney worlds are used magnificently well here.

They, for the most part, like, really align with what they're trying to say for these characters and what they're learning along the way. You know, you have Stitch as this monster at the very beginning, but is there more to them?

You know, Aqua and Venus got to see more to him, and Tara kind of sees a little bit, but he's not willing to go there yet. Get the Cinderella stuff. You get the Sleeping Beauty stuff.

And of course, Maleficent starting her journey like she's already dark, but her journey into darkness and like, what that could mean for her outside of her own world is introduced to, which will lead her to make the alliance we see in Kingdom Hearts one. And she'll be there for quite some time, as she deserves, as one of the best villains Disney has ever made. Our Core 3 here, love them very well.

They work in different ways. Like I said, still an Aqua guy. But I love. Excuse me, Tara, and I love Ventus for different reasons.

And we get our original cast From Kingdom Hearts 1 as children in a way that isn't just there for the sake of fan service. Like, it applies. Like, okay, why do they have connection to them? Why do they feel this way? That leads into other stories told here.

Like, this is a phenomenal game and my favorite for a reason.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. This is a little bit difficult for me.

I'm going to do this a couple different ways because if you guys know, when I rate, I think of it as comparison more than I think of it as, like, a grade, you know? Like, I'm not gonna give it, like, 0 to 100 if I'm, like, rating just like, video games 10 out of 10.

If I'm reading specifically Kingdom Hearts video games, 9 out of 10. There's only one 10 out of 10 for me. If I'm rating PSP games 20 out of 10. How on earth was this a PSP game? Like, what? What?

Or was this PSP or Nintendo DS? I thought this was the PSP one. I'm not 100% sure.

I've only played it on either way.

PlayStation mobile game for the time era that it was in, this was a mobile game. And to me, it's done just as well as any of the platformer ones that I'm like. Like, you know, like Xbox, PlayStation. Like, it feels.

It doesn't feel like it started off as a game that was on a portable device. You know, Like, I'm like, huh? What do you mean? This feels like it was meant to be a real entry, you know, like it meant.

If they renumbered it like you do Star wars and this was Kingdom Hearts one. I don't think I'd complain that much. Like, it's done that well. Like, the cut scenes, everything. I'm like, wow. Like, it's. It's actually pretty.

It's incredible. The story. Story is really great. You get so much lore here. Characters are all fantastic.

This is like the first game I think you get where Sora is not the main character. And I'm like, I'm. I didn't miss him. I love Sora. But I didn't miss him, you know.

Yeah.

So I just. It was just not so well. And even the worlds were like you said, chosen really well. It fit with the theme.

The only concern I have with the world really has to do with Kingdom Hearts 4 and not this. It's like this is the one exception where like usually you can go by by eras.

Like the mobile games were set in the Fairy Tale era, so you have all the older Disney movies there. By the time you get to Kingdom Hearts, it's like all the Millennial Kingdom, you know, Disney movies.

And then Kingdom Hearts 3, it's like newer movies. And like I feel like that could explain why they keep choosing newer movies for the new games.

And we can go back to other eras, which I think the anime is going to be set in the Fairy Tale era, but this one, you have some from all kinds of different eras of Disney animation mixed in because it's what fit the story best, which I like. I'm just not sure how it's going to work with how they format the series going forward. They might just say, yeah, just accept it.

Which I'm fine with because again, incredible game. So in all I'm just going to say 10 out of 10 because like, man, it just feels wrong not to so good.

Right.

And it has Aqua who truly just like if I'm just making a list of my favorite characters of all time, she probably makes it. She's a good character. I do want to touch on too. Christian, kind of hear from you.

You talk some about how like we see the younger Sora, Riku Kairi, our main three from the main series. We saw a little bit of what happens with Xehanort. There's a lot of pieces here.

Our annual theme on Cismatic Ecology this year are the Faces behind us. We're doing a whole episode on Aqua with the Faces behind us at the end of the year.

But just as a whole, if you were thinking of this game and what does it speak to that we are trying to get at with the series faces behind us. I feel like it says a lot, but I'm just going to want to hear from you a little bit.

Yeah, I mean our trio here is set up to be foils to a sense to our main trio, Sora Kairi and Riku in regular games in that Terra is very obviously Riku, struggling with darkness, a little more aggressive. And that always stinks to do's. Right. So if I'm doing it, it must be the right thing.

Ventus is very much our sora not just in looks, but in the fact that, you know, he's very carefree, but he also wants people to get along. He wants stuff to get done, hang out with their friends, have a good time.

Now, Aqua and Kyrie are the harder ones to do, and that's because Kyrie doesn't get that much screen time. And it's not her fault in the fact that, you know, they both really love their friends.

They want to take care of them, and they do things behind the scenes to get closer to them and make sure things are done well. I see. I see. That looks really great. Audio listeners. Sorry. You can see what I saw him hold up. But the strong will.

The back of my phone has a Kyrie and Aqua sticker, but they both.

Have the strong will to go after and look after their friends in ways that connect them, you know, at least thematically. But then we actually get to see them, meet them on the Destiny Islands.

And obviously, you know, there's still the whole nonsense, we can't talk about other worlds and that, but you can tell that the kids kind of get a feeling for it. And they meet Kyrie and Radiant Garden, sorry, there's more to where we are. What can we do? And they perform rituals on them. That kind of.

Okay, I feel a kinship towards you. For some reason, there's a connection between our hearts. And part of that is, well, maybe one day you can become a Keyblade Master.

Which leads some credence to some ideas of maybe that's what happened to them back in the day. Because once we don't really focus on their backstories outside of Ventus for the most part here.

So that could be something that happened to them as kids. Who knows? Only Nomura and tomorrow ain't telling right now, but it sets up for.

Why would Sora and Riku know about other worlds outside of the fact that Kyrie comes from another world, which is part of this process through the experiments that were done on her with Xehanort and the nonsense he does with Ansem. So they know about that. But this also helps trigger that part of, okay, there's more out there. What if there's more than what we see around us?

So let's go and search it out. So I love what's done with that.

Then on the villainous side of things, I bring up, we don't really see Ansem in this game, but, like, his effects are felt in the fact that he's looking after these kids. Like we see, you know, Axel, pre Axel, as Lee and Issa, and all that as, like, apprentices of his.

That leads up to Xehanort becoming one of those same apprentices until eventually he usurps the title of Anselm the Wise or Ansem for himself. That wouldn't have happened without his influence.

That, of course, leads him to then target these children who used to be apprentices to become his apprentices in organization 13 and all that nonsense.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it does work on several level layers if we're talking about the faces behind us.

Because, like, thematically, these three resembling Sora, Riku, Kairi, the whole message of friendship being what's powerful. But also, hey, friendship isn't perfect. It's not a, you know, it's worth one size cure all. Because sometimes it can be used to manipulate you.

Like, thematically, it works really well to set up everything. Also, Lore wise, you know, Aqua is the reason why people are locked away. Terra is the reason that Xehanort ends up with Ansem the Wise.

Like, you have so much like lore that just like one to one fits. Like Ventus literally ending up partially in Sora's heart. You're like, yeah, that's literally the face behind it.

Like, he's literally in the guy, you know, I think two. One of the ones that's really interesting to explore since we split this into. We have a little bit of time to do this.

Terra being taken over by Xehanort so that his heart is hidden. Xehanort has his body and it kind of morphs him into like, you know, so that we have the character we see later on, basically.

But it's interesting because when Xehanort morphs with Terra, that's who splits into the Ansem Heartless that we fight in the first game as well as Ximnas, the Nobody that we fight in the second Kingdom Hearts. Because when you follow Riku's storyline from the original game, Riku, one of our main antagonist, protagonist, whatever, Agonist, it's complicated.

He wants to use darkness for good. He's not scared of the darkness, whatever.

He ends up being controlled by the Ansem Heartless, which is the Heartless of this character we just spoke of. And so much. Riku gets pulled into the darkness that he ends up taking on the physical form of Ansem, AKA Xehanort.

And you see such a strong connection between Riku and Terra in that way. And I actually really feel like it gives credence to a lot of the story and themes we see later on where, like, Terra, he wasn't given a good master.

I love eraqus, but like, he was kind of failed in that way. Then he was manipulated and he fell into the darkness and was consumed by it. Whereas Riku, because Mickey. I know. It's just so weird.

King Mickey ends up being willing to to go there with him. It's like, hey, listen, I'm gonna walk the walk with you, man. You're going into darkness. Cool. I'm going with you.

I think the reason that Riku doesn't end up with the same fate as Terra is because King Mickey was there so much for him.

He had a friend, and Sora's always chasing after him that he held onto enough of himself that he was able to use that darkness for good and ends up usurping Sora. Eventually, Riku's ends up being the first one to pass the mark of mastery.

And I think it's because of this, because he could have chosen fell the exact same route as Terra. But because of King Mickey and because of Sora's friendship, he didn't.

So I think when you look at the face behind you, to me one of the really strong ones here, obviously Aqua, we're gonna do a whole episode on that Terra and Riku. It's just so strong.

And it really makes the story stand out so much better chronologically when you get to Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 and you're like, wow, Riku's journey could have gone so much worse. And that's what a good friend does.

And that's part of the faces behind Eric is. Is a teacher who is good at his job, but he's not perfect at his job. Like he's good at instructing them.

Hey, this is why we exist as Keyblade wielders. We're supposed to keep the worlds apart. We can't let darkness invade people's hearts because it causes harm. So let's do that.

But then he becomes the zealot rather than the rational teacher at certain parts. It's like, well, if you at all.

From what I've been told by my good friend Pal Zaynor, who's never done anything wrong in his life, you're consumed by darkness. And so now it's my job. Because I'm a zeal it to kill you, Tara, rather than actually let you explain yourself. What's going on?

Let me help you out with this. I can actually teach you after the things you've gone through, because I don't have to. I've sent you out in the world. He's what's the word.

Kind of a sink or swim mentor in that regard. Like, I taught you everything I know. Or I go, oh, oh, are you in darkness? Oh, you're dead now. Like, you're not like my perfect student Aqua.

It's not like she's never struggled with darkness or anything. He's never seen that in her. Obviously she has. But there's no empathy towards Tara because of the teachers that Eric has had.

Rather than, okay, let's actually think about this, because we're not talking about darkness in this series. Is not how we typically think of evil. Like, evil by, in and of itself has never found a good way to be used because by its very nature, it's evil.

Darkness, on the other hand, is something that exists in the world. It is a creation of part of creation.

So you can use it for good or for ill. Just like they argue that light can be done, because when you become a zealot in that regard, you can cause harm. So teachers have been molding teacher students into becoming their teachers by all the way through time to where this is where we've ended up.

So terror is kind of like the perfect encapsulation of someone who has been mentored by people poorly. And thus he ended up becoming them in a different way, but still very similar to them.

To where when someone like Xano comes around, he hasn't been taught, hey, don't trust everything everyone tells you. So that no wonder he ends up the way he does.

Yeah. What's. What's annoying is that, like. And I think good world building does this. Where you can see layers.

There's not just one face behind you, There's a face behind that face and a face behind, you know, like, so on and so on. And it goes both ways. That's. Kingdom Hearts is great at world building, even though the lore gets way too convoluted.

But is what it is, world building is really good. Um, I think the thing that annoys me. Xehanort does actually kind of have a point. The whole we are in darkness and then suddenly born into light.

And he's talking, you know, he's talking about, like, the wound. Like, literally, but, like, a little bit of it you kind of see is true. And you see in this, like.

And again, that goes back to why I'm like, the unversed kind of bother me. Because I'm like, anger isn't always bad, you know, like, sadness isn't always bad. So making strong, bad, negative emotions, the bad guys.

I was like, I don't love that. But I think it still kind of gets at the point of like why terror turns so easily. It's bad teaching. It's because a little bit was right.

You just over committed to one truth. Like sometimes you hang on to like one tiny thing that might be true but over applied becomes evil. Which you know, you could do in the Bible too.

There are parts of the Bible that justify violence for certain circumstances. And it's easy for people to take little parts of the Bible that might be true and to over apply it and then it becomes not what was intended at all.

And I think that's kind of what happens with Xehanort of Eventera here.

It helps when you actually define terms and those terms actually mean something. You say not all anger is wrong. Yeah, I agree. But that's not the anger they're talking about. We're not talking about righteous anger here.

We're not talking about Jesus seeing the temple being destroyed through people being greedy and causing harm to the people who are trying to legitimately reach God and can't because they're being sworn by people who hate them and then taking a whip out and turning tables and like, that's righteous anger.

This isn't, you know, I've been wronged or I feel angry at this person, they got that promotion I didn't or they have what I don't have and I'm gonna be angry at them. That that's the actual unversed negative emotions they're talking to here.

That's simplistic because it's a children's game, but that's not what they're talking about. It's like good applications of yeah, yeah, it's fine to be sad.

That's why I really hope there's going to be an inside out world coming up soon because they could explore that extremely well. That'd be very useful to teach children.

I'm torn on that, but yeah, I'm torn on it. But it could be good. There's just so many worlds I want to see that I'm like, I don't know, man, that might kick out a world. I want to see more.

Oh no, but no, no, that, I mean, thematically inside out would really work, but yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I'm of two minds because I, I do think, Tara, when he gets some of the stuff he gets angry at, I'm like, legit reasons.

And then all of a sudden he has powers of darkness. And you're like, why is that dark? That's a Good reason to be angry. But you know, again, in this game, darkness isn't always evil. So nuance.

And I think too part of like, another reason I like Kingdom Hearts, I think real world, the same way some stuff is convoluted. The world is a little bit like, wait a minute. Lying drawn. But Rahab lied. And you liked that. God, yeah. What's going on here?

And sometimes it's hard to understand that's.

Life because it led to the depressuration.

I think that this game is unnecessarily hard to understand. But, you know. All right, so what part of this game do you hope we see again? Like, what parts are you like, oh, let's.

Let's bring those back for Kingdom Hearts 4. And what parts are you like? It was good for that, but let's leave it alone.

If.

If it is true that 4 is going to be like narrower worlds because multiple characters will be on them at multiple parts and different times in the story, I think that could be done extremely well because we'll have Donald and Goofy looking for Sora. We have Riku doing things on his own. Maybe Kairi and Aqua doing things together now that she's apprenticed under her. That could be a lot of fun.

Like, maybe just use Inside out as a reference. Maybe Kyrie could be with Riley in the real world, but Sora would be inside her head. And he knows, oh, wait, that's Kairi.

But I can't reach her because I'm inside the mind. But maybe our hearts connect, but, like, something's going on there.

But Riku is maybe dealing with the negative aspects of what's going on in Riley's mind or something like that. Like, I think that'd be a ton of fun if we chose to do that. To tell these different stories in the same movie, but from different perspectives.

Yeah, I definitely like the idea of seeing some of the same world from different perspectives. Maybe getting Sora, Riku. I want Donald and Goofy to end up with Sora asap.

Like, I don't want a ton of separate with them just because I love the trio Man King Mickey. I want to. I want to see some world from his perspective now that we're just leaning into it. And I love how far we've come.

We've went from you're allowed a single scene where we can see Mickey and that's it. To Mickey's a playable character. Yeah, I love that. Love that for us. But I actually think it helps a lot. It builds up the anticipation.

It allows you to see how Important Mickey really is. I think they did that really well, actually. Even though it was just because of rights, it's fine.

I don't want to see how the gameplay was in this again. I liked it, but I think it was fine for what it was. Going forward, I want that more dynamic.

I actually loved how Kingdom Hearts 3 played, even though I thought parts of it was too easy. Like, I have lots of qualms, but like the way it felt, really dynamic, a lot faster paced. I enjoy that.

I would be fine see more of that From Kingdom Hearts 3 and less of this kind of fighting style. Personally, one thing I would like to see, I don't think we're gonna see again, but I would love. I love the D link stuff.

So in this game, because friendship is what connects us all. You can link to someone and all of a sudden you have their fighting skills. Like, I loved that.

To me, the best way to play is when you're Ventus and you're using your link with Aqua. Because it's like, I'm still strong, but now I also have a lot more magic all of a sudden. It's great. It's a lot of fun.

Sora D linking with Donald, I think would be awesome. I think that would be so much fun. Especially if I get that a flare. Max that out. They would never let me do that, but it would be great.

Dealing is always one.

That's where I'm at. That's the stuff I would like to see back.

I always, after it's brought up, I never remember it exists until I start the next character's journey and go, oh, yeah, I'll do it this time. And then I forget it exists.

I only remember because I'm so much better when I'm able to be a magic user. So I don't use it that much when I'm Aqua, actually, but I use it a lot when I'm the other two fair. It's like I need to be a magic user.

So here's how I'm going to do this. Oh, man. So we mentioned we see each of them struggle in different ways. Rounding this out, Christian, these are three very different characters.

Where do you most resonate, like, as far as, like, their struggles? Which ones are you?

Like, you know, I feel that, like, personally, were there any that you were like, yeah, if I was to be manipulated by Xehanort, it would probably be more like them specifically.

I mean, there's aspects of Terra in me and the desire I'm going to do. Right. But I don't Always. When I was younger, I didn't always check my sources, and I needed to be better about that. Something I learned over time.

It's like, okay, just because you like this person doesn't automatically mean they're always going to be speaking in your best interest in what they're telling you to do. Okay, Now, I'm a little more aqua ish in that I have learned from my mistakes. I've learned how not to do things.

But at that same time, I get angry when I can't solve problems in front of me because there's that desire to bring kinship together to. To help other people out, to restore relationships. And yet XYZ thing happens and I'm not strong enough to stop it.

And then that frustration goes on and lingers in me and causes harm to other people because then I lash out at them to something that's not their fault for something that's not my fault, and then I make it my fault.

Yeah, yeah, I. I do get a little bit of the vintus because I'm like, cheering on my friends and I'm like, you guys are all fit to be pastors or keyblade wielders or masters or whatever. And I'm like, you know, I'm here. I'm fine to help, but I always am kind of. What's it. What's that called?

There's a term for that now where I'm like, ah, I feel imposter syndrome. I feel so. I feel like that's where I relate with ventus the most. Tara. Yeah, I'm with you. Like, usually I am very slow to anger. Not a brag. I just am.

I'm non confrontational. But there are situations he finds himself in.

Like, if I were to just show up and it looks like some poor old lady's being attacked, probably am gonna be like, all right, fighting whoever's attacking the poor old lady and not think maybe the poor old lady is the bad guy, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Like, if I'm just throwing into that situation, I get it. Aqua. Aqua is the one I most relate to, which is weird. Usually my favorite characters I don't relate to that much.

But coming in at the end and being like, well, how did they not see that this is wrong. This makes no sense. Why are you guys doing this stuff? Why don't you see the picture?

Like, she seems to be frustrated that they aren't getting the whole picture. And I think that's her biggest downfall. She doesn't see her friend's perspective.

She just sees what she sees and she's like, well, you guys should have known this was wrong. And I feel that way a lot.

I think that's my biggest thing is I am like, sometimes it's hard to stop and think, wait a minute, they're seeing this differently than I saw this. What did they see? Why did they do this? It's hard to stop and think about all that.

It's easier to get frustrated that, oh, I can't believe you didn't see all this. So that's where I, like, I do feel like I actually do relate to Aqua the most in this one. And, yeah, I don't know how to conquer that. Christian.

How do we conquer it? Do we just watch and pray? Is that the answer?

I mean, yes, we definitely did pray for God to make us a little better. We need to have people who hold us accountable and say, hey, I noticed you were doing this because you told me to look out for it.

If they don't know that we need.

I'll talk to Mark Hamill more.

I mean, if Mark Hamill wants to talk to me, I'm open to that. We're not exactly what I call political buddies, but, you know, as an actor, he's still my guy. Mm.

I think I might be a political. But I usually. You know what it is? I like the people he makes fun of. I'm like, I agree. They should be made fun of.

Well, that's not my issue.

I think I ignore the rest of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I figured. Yeah. I mean, truly, I think I don't want to be that guy, but I think watch and pray might be the answer.

Like, I feel like sometimes it is just a sit back, observe more, talk less, pray that you can understand the other perspective. I was just at my grandmother's funeral, and that was one of the big things for me this last week is like, a lot of my grandparents.

For me, it's really easy to be like, you know, both my grandfathers were very verbal. They were out loud. They were kind of. And it was easy for me, like, okay, I want to have his joy. I want to have his passion.

I want, you know, like, it's in your face. And this last grandmother who passed notorious for not talking to people, for being in the corner reading the book, whatever.

And I had a moment where I was like, man, because usually I'm a weirdo that I always take a challenge of, like, how am I going to live out their legacy going forward? Because, you know, I'm like, I'm not sure on the whole afterlife thing, personally.

But I do believe we all live in one another, that the saints live in me. The python on the saints, to me, is a really important part of what I believe in Christianity.

I don't worship the saints, but I believe their faith continues to be passed on. You know, it's talked about in second Timothy, and I'm like, I want to live that out. I want to live where I'm connected to my past.

And that especially is going to include my grandparents. Right. It for me is really easy with some of the other ones. Fairy joy is loud. Laughter is loud.

This last grandmother, I had to think about, like, you know, what I always saw her doing when she wasn't reading. She was watching her family, and she just loved to watch.

And, like, actually, that might be the hardest one for me, learning that some moments are meant for me to be quiet and to just see what everybody else is doing, to watch, to see what they're doing, to just not have to be the one talking. And that's. I don't know, it's a challenge. But I think that might a little bit be the answer here.

If I want to be better at seeing someone else's perspective, I might need to shut up more. Yeah, that's. I think that's all I got for that. I don't. I don't know if you have anything else you want to follow up with, the.

The themes, the whatever, how much everybody needs to play birth by sleep or anything.

You definitely need to play more. Birth by sleep. Yeah. Have an awareness of yourself. Knowing what causes problems in my life. Because I did the thing. Okay. Why.

What was my motivation behind that? Okay. Does that make it right? Simply because that was my motivation. And then question yourselves.

Have good people around you say, hey, I chose to do this because this. What did you see that I didn't see? That has helped me grow a lot because I tend to be the kind of person who, as Tara can be at times.

This is the absolute.

Because this is what I just heard, therefore, and I've grown past some of this, but I'm still not completely there, Therefore, that is my reality right now. And I don't have the full information. I have what has been given to me in this one specific scenario. I need to make a decision. Make decision, go.

Not always the best place. Yeah. Sometimes you don't have time to make decisions, but that doesn't then justify making poor decisions even with limited information.

It just means you made the wrong call. So maybe step back a little bit. Maybe you don't need to respond immediately. Maybe you think you need to respond immediately.

This is something I had to learn because I am a problem solver and I love, like, I love solving problems because then that means there's no more problems. Like, that's great. No problems. Hakuna matata, man. That's what I live for.

But, oh, see, I thought that's why me and you got along, because I'm a problem creator and you're a problem solver.

But it does bring me joy to take you down every now and then, but as I need to.

But at the same time, you help.

Solve problems for me, and we work well together as a result of that.

Yeah.

And every now and then when we're doing Bible stuff, I'm like, I'm going to use my D link, Christian abilities and naturally abilities, and let's talk about this. No, yeah, no, no. That's all good stuff. That's all good stuff. Last thing. Decompress a little bit before we get to this wrap up a little less serious.

What do you think is the correct order to play through this game? As you get to play through as each of the three, what order do you recommend?

Terra Venta, Aquas, Aventus, Aquas. Goodness gracious. Terra, Ventus, Aqua. Let me speak English correctly today.

And that's the typical chronological.

If you do it that way, the typical one. But I think it's typical for a reason.

I don't know, man, I'm torn. I definitely think Aqua needs to be last. Personally, I'm torn, though. I think it could be.

It's fun to do Ventus, then Terra the Naqua because you see the middle and you can expand the story afterwards. Plus, to me, Ventus is still like the main of the three, just because you kind of get his backstory.

It's how we're connected through the Chi and the Dark Roads and all the other mobile games. Like, he's the anchor to the story. So I like. I like starting with him and then expanding the story by playing the other two.

But Aqua should definitely be last, I think. Yeah, I think that's just correct. All right, then. You ready to wrap this up?

Let's do it.

All right. So with that, guys, thank you for sticking around for two rounds of Kingdom Hearts. Birth by sleep shouldn't have surprised any of us if it did.

Kind of did me a little bit, but it shouldn't have surprised me. Anyway, here we are again. We're going to talk about what worlds, characters, items we anticipate being announced next for Kingdom Hearts 4.

If you want to go on our website, get some bonus material, you can do that. There's a link in the show's description for that. Recommendations. I mean, you know, I'm gonna just stay on point.

I really do think if you're not gonna play the games, everybody's gamer. You should get the light novel for Birth by Sleep.

It's actually just a really good story, especially if you like Star wars or if you like Disney or, you know, any of this stuff. I think it's worth the reading just by itself. So that's where I'm at. Christian, any recommendations for everybody?

Yeah, I'm gonna Recommend the Phantom versus the Singh Brotherhood comic book. There's been two so far. Least in this. They're not. They're different issue number ones. They're called different things.

But I can't remember who's doing. I'm sorry. But like, I love the Phantom. I love the stories being told here. They. They have. Whoever the writer is, has a good grasp on him.

So go check those out.

I will. I need you to send me a link to that, actually, because it sounds great. And I have a couple days still of being off and decompressing. So with that.

Also want to ask everybody for a little bit of time so you can rate and review our show. Wherever you're listening to your podcast, it only takes like maybe 30 seconds to hit that five star. It helps other people find.

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