Hold up, can superheroes play nice with each other? In this episode of Systematic Geekology, Kevin and Evan dive deep into the MCU, taking a stroll down memory lane as they discuss the evolution of some iconic films. They kick things off with a look at Thor, a movie that sets the stage for a whole lot of drama and sibling rivalry between the God of Thunder and Loki. As they move on to Captain America: The First Avenger, they chat about its retro charm and how it nails the essence of heroism while laying the groundwork for the Avengers. The conversation wraps up with a nostalgic nod to the epic team-up in The Avengers, where the stakes were higher than ever, and every character had their moment to shine. It’s a laid-back yet insightful ride through superhero history, all while the guys sprinkle in their witty banter and clever quips. So grab your hammer, shield, or whatever hero gear you've got, and get ready to join the adventure!

A deep dive into the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) unfolds as Kevin and Evan kick off their journey through the franchise in the latest episode of Countdown to Doomsday. They reminisce about their personal experiences with the MCU, reflecting on how these films have shaped their views on superhero narratives over the past decade. The duo takes a retrospective look at three pivotal films: Thor, Captain America: The First Avenger, and The Avengers. Each film is scrutinized not only for its individual merits but also for its role in the broader tapestry of the MCU. Kevin and Evan's banter is laced with nostalgia, as they share their initial impressions and how those thoughts have evolved with time. They dissect character arcs, plot developments, and the impact of casting choices, particularly the performances of Chris Hemsworth, Tom Hiddleston, and Chris Evans. Their assessments are both humorous and insightful, making a case for the enduring legacy of these films while also acknowledging their flaws. As they navigate the complexities of superhero dynamics and world-building, they emphasize the cultural significance of the MCU, particularly how it has influenced modern cinema. The episode is a celebration of geek culture, reminding listeners of the joy and excitement these films brought to audiences worldwide, culminating in a heartfelt discussion about what it means to be part of this shared universe.

Takeaways:

• Kevin and Evan dive into the MCU, reminiscing about Thor's origins and the character's evolution over the years.
• They compare the first Captain America film to Thor, highlighting the different approaches to character development and story arcs.
• The Avengers' success marked a significant moment in cinematic history, uniting beloved superheroes and showcasing the power of teamwork.
• Kevin humorously critiques the CGI of Thor, likening it to early 2000s video game graphics, while Evan reflects on its nostalgic charm.
• The hosts discuss how Captain America: The First Avenger set the groundwork for future MCU films, particularly its strong character foundation.
• They share fun anecdotes about their experiences watching these films during their release, emphasizing the cultural impact of the MCU.

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Be sure to check out our merch, find extra content, and become an official member of Systematic Geekology on our website:

https://systematic-geekology-shop.fourthwall.com/

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Check out our other MCU episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/fb519d38-2d9b-4f82-b041-81b81613543c

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Check out other episodes with Kevin:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/84fd7d06-cf1f-48e5-b358-09a01c5a6bc9

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Don't miss any of Evan's episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/db75189a-04f3-4129-9a5d-ade41cf863b5

Mentioned in this episode:

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SG on Fourthwall

Of the mcu. Hold up today, can superheroes play nice with each other? We are going to talk about all this and more in tonight's episode of Systematic Ecology.

We are the priest of the geeks, and we are here for another episode of Countdown to Doomsday where we're talking about all of the MCU movies and the Fox X Men movies leading up to Avengers Doomsday at the end of this year. I am one of your hosts, Kevin Schaer, and I am here thrilled to talk with Evan Garcia. Evan, how are you today?

Doing good, doing good. It's been a good Sunday now as we are recording and I'm looking forward to this because I've got some fun memories for, for some of these movies.

And it's crazy. It's been over 10 years for this dude.

It's just, it's wild. Like, I mean, looking at, like, that's why I wanted to do this series. It's just like, look at everything retrospectively.

And yes, some of these I've seen a million times, but others, it's been quite a while and it's really fun looking at, you know, oh, what did I think of it back then? What do I. How does it hold up now? It's just been really fun.

And I'm, I'm excited to have you on this one because, like, so far, the other episodes in the series, we did me and Christian and Andy, the, the first one on the first Fox X Men trilogy, and then me and Christian did the beginning of the mcu. Now we're on to, we're on to Thor. We're onto the first Captain America and the Avengers. So got a lot to talk about tonight. I'm very excited.

And before we get started, I want to thank you all for being here. Want to thank you all for whether you're watching on YouTube right now or you're listening to this later. Thank you for being here.

If you are new to systematic ecology, welcome. We really appreciate you as always. Like any podcast will tell you, you know, like, subscribe, share, tell your friends about us.

It really helps the show.

And if you want to learn about ways to support us more and learn more about the show, you can click on the link in the description and find out ways to support us, find out ways to connect with us on social media. And you also get a shout out on the show if you are one of our supporters.

And I would like to shout out today, Russell Gentry, thank you so much for your support of the show. Absolutely. We really appreciate it. And to all of our supporters, all of our listeners, we could not do this without you. So really appreciate it.

Well, Evan, before we get into the main topic tonight, let's get into a quick lightning round where we talk about what we've been geeking out on lately. So I will. Well, very much in. In line with tonight's episode, watch the premiere of Daredevil Born Again Season two the other day. Really enjoyed it.

I think the. The new season's off to a great start. And, you know, I know you and I have talked about the show in the past and, you know, the Netflix Marvel shows.

So I'm really liking the season of Born Again at the start. I think it's pushing Matt in a really interesting direction. I love the spoiler alert, but I love that Matt and Karen are back together.

I really love their dynamic and their chemistry. So I'm very happy there. Yeah.

And I also think that in comparison with the previous season, we talked about this a lot last year, but with season one, it was kind of a mixed bag in terms of very much in terms of creative directions because they did an overhaul, a full creative overhaul about midway through production.

Where, you know, originally the show was conceived as separate from the Netflix continuity, then they decided to pivot and bring back all the canon there, bring back Karen and Foggy and Bullseye and everything. And so that very much changed the trajectory of the show. And I thought, as best they could, they handled it well.

But now, because all of that baggage is kind of in the past, we have a more cohesive, consistent vision going forward. And yeah, really enjoyed the first episode. I also checked out the Born Again podcast that's on Disney watching and single the show.

It was really good. Yeah.

Fun fact there is that they actually revealed that the reason Born Again happened is because of Spider man, no Way Home, because of Matt Murdock's cameo in that movie. Brad Winderbaum said when that happened, it was like, we have got to make Daredevil. We got to bring Daredevil back now. There's no choice.

That reminds me, I have a meme that I was gonna post to our social. So if you guys want to look out for one of those silly memes that I put out. Yes, check threads, check Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff.

So, yeah, so, yes, for. For mine. I've also done the. The Daredevil season one of Born Again season two or episode one.

And yeah, yeah, it was one of those things where I came in with high expectations and didn't mean it. So I gave it the second Chance and. And I love it.

It's.

It's great. It's a great start to. To a new season that, like you said, it's not hindered with a past or some kind of baggage. You know, they are.

They are generally going through a storyline that they have planned out. It seems like it. And my favorite.

My favorite thing to watch that I can't wait to see how this develops is a Fisk and his relationship to Shaggy, to what's his face, Matthew Lillard. That dynamic is going to be insanity. I think. I think we're going to see some crazy stuff between those two guys. And I'm excited for that.

And I want to throw in. I finally caught one piece and me and my wife, we binged all both seasons. And it's so good. It's so good.

You ever watched the anime or you're just watching live action?

Came in cold turkey, but we gotcha. But we plan on starting to watch the anime.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

With our son. He wants to watch it too. So I think we're. I think we're gonna do that.

I know it's very popular. I do want to check it out at some point. I know with fans of the anime, they have, like, there's mixed reception in terms of so many episodes. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, absolutely. But awesome, awesome. I mean, well, excellent. Great picks.

And yeah, we will definitely be talking about Born Again on the show in the near future. So if you're a fan, stick around, but. All right, well, let's get into it. So, yeah, as we've been doing with this series, we're kind of taking three.

We're tackling three movies an episode because with the amount of movies we have to cover that we're gonna be hopefully trying to get to all of them before the release of Doomsday at the end of the year. But I kind of, you know, mapped out a schedule and I figured, like, you know, three movies at a time is a good way to dissect.

So the way we're doing this is we're looking at each movie. We're talking about, you know, what we thought of at the. At the time of its release.

We're looking at it retrospectively, and you know, how it compares with the rest of the mcu.

So Thor had never made any kind of real big screen appearance. You'd seen him in Summit Animation, but even then he was a more obscure Marvel character for the mainstream audiences.

He was a dig. Like, if you brought him up, it was like some. A real nerd cred.

Right? Absolutely. And, like, and, you know, I mean, and in the comics, you know, he had iconic runs, like, from Walter Simonson, but, yeah, absolutely.

He was not a pop culture mainstay at this point of his intro. Very similar to Captain American Iron Man. It's. It's.

It, you know, it shows Thor as a more cocky, arrogant, you know, like, character trying to regain his honor after, you know, like, going to war without Odin's approval and then getting banished to Earth and he has to redeem himself in order to pick up his hammer Mir again. And then, you know, of course, we. We here, we get the intro to Thor and Loki and.

And that relationship and how it, you know, lays a lot of groundwork for the rest of the mcu. Evan, before I share my thoughts, can you tell a little bit about your background? Well, first off, because.

Because this is your first time on this series, my question is, were you watching all of the MCU movies from the beginning or, you know, like, you kind of. Come on. Came on later. What was kind of your.

Yeah, for sure. I started it. And with the one that I like to include is the Ang Lee Hulk. I still. I still. I will go to the map for that film. It's a great film.

But, yeah, me and my dad, we watch all these Marvel movies. The X Men, Blade. Yeah. And we. And the Spider man films. And we walked out of Spider Man 3, but that's a whole other story. So.

Yes.

And I was very much into the film scene back then, and I knew when there was a new concept art dropping, and I remember being so stoked for this kind of stuff, and I was like, man, when they had VTs for Thor, what film was he teased.

In with Iron Man 2 in the post.

Iron Man 2. Yeah.

In the desert.

Yeah. And.

Yep.

And Cajun Coulson finds it and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was just like, wait a minute. I think I know what they're doing here. Like, they are really doing this.

So they, they, they, they are really going for it. And I was so stoked because this character is my dad's favorite character. Like he's his, his favorite superhero character, period.

So I was like, all right, cool then.

And so I didn't get to see this movie when it first came out because we were moving and was finishing college and I got married the year before and blah, blah, blah, blah. So we. So I kind of forgot about the film. And then I caught it with my dad at a dollar theater and I freaking loved it. It was worth it.

And I thought Hemsworth was the perfect guy for it, but his eyebrows weren't. His eyebrows were not perfect for it.

Natalie Portman coming from the Star wars world and oh, and the director, Kevin Branagh, I remember that being a huge deal. Like, dang, he's like, he's, he's a top tier director. Like, what is he doing with, with the superhero genre? Like, so I remember that.

And then Tom Hiddleston comes out of nowhere with his performance and he's instantly everybody's favorite. And so, yeah, I've got some fond memories of this.

I seen it only once, once more since then and I don't remember it too much and I kind of don't want to spoil it for myself. So.

Yeah, I'm glad you were able to say some positive things.

See, that is really cool because I always love hearing what people's favorite superhero, favorite comic book character is and like, especially something unique. It's like, I mean, you know, you hear so many people.

I mean, I mean, I'm one of the, like, Batman is my favorite and like, you know, all the obvious ones I love when you hear someone, it's like, yeah, Thor is my favorite character or, or like Ant man or something like that, you know, like. And so that's really cool to see. So I imagine that made an impact. So I'm glad you were able to say some nice things here.

But because I, I do have some negative ones to say about this.

Sure, sure.

Yeah, because I mean, I said it on the last episode that I have seen every MCU movie in theaters, like from, you know, I talked about in the episode we did on Iron Man.

Like, I remember even though I wasn't as familiar with that character, other than some passing familiarity with the cartoons and whatnot, I was still really excited about it from day one because I was in middle school. I was like at the mall with a friend. And like, we were looking at the concept art for the first time. So I was there and like, that was really cool.

And then that movie was great. Still one of my all time favorites.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Yep. And then Captain America, which talk about a little bit. So there were a lot of blockbusters back to back.

And this was when I was starting to like, blog and, you know, really talk about movies and everything. And so. So, I mean, I think at that time I thought this one was perfectly fun.

I. I liked, you know, the character overall and, you know, it was a fun summer of big blockbusters. And you know, the amount of superhero movies coming out, like, that was when it was exciting.

There was no superhero fatigue because it was just like, wow, they're making movies about Thor and Green Lantern. Like, what are you? What's coming next? Like that. Well, yeah, like, Right, right, right.

But like, for the most part, I mean, hey, like, I mean, the fact that like, you know, they're making these at all, like the. Wow, this is pretty cool. So I was very. I was, I was pretty into it.

And they're putting behind it, like, they have Hopkins and like I said, Kenneth Br. It's like, dang. They are really going for it.

Very much going for it. And like, you know, and I mean, Hemsworth and Hton, who. Which fun fact is that Hston originally auditioned for Thor, but like, you know, you.

You can't, you know, I mean, you can't see him as anyone else but Loki, but like, it was great casting around there. So I enjoyed at the time it would. This is one where again, this is about watching these movies retrospectively, looking at it now. Yeah.

So because I am doing a rewatch of each one as we're doing the series and trying to end. So. And it was interesting because, like doing the Iron man, Iron Man 2 and Incredible Hulk episode, it was fun because like, Iron man still love it.

But like, Iron Man 2 and Hulk both surprised me in terms of like, you know, they always got bad reps. Like, I particularly actually really enjoyed Incredible Hulk on a rewatch. And Iron Man 2 is still quite entertaining. It has its flaws, but it's a. But it's entertaining.

I have to say, looking at these movies objectively, retrospectively, I think this is the first flop in the mcu in terms of quality. In terms of like, I mean, yeah. So like, like, I, I did, I did. I said like, I mean, and I don't mean it in the.

Like, it was obviously not, you know, box office like that, but in terms of a quality of a movie, this one was a struggle to get through on a rewatch. I mean, I think like, I mean, so I think for one, I mean a lot because again, casting, I mean, it's great. It's really fun to see the.

You know, the first time Hemsworth and Hiddleston were in these roles. Like, none of that is a flaw. But. And like, and I think, I mean, you bring up Kenneth Branagh.

I brought like, I think it was a good director choice because he had the Shakespearean background doing Hamlet, all that. And like, exactly. And like, I mean that, you know, you think all that would make sense.

And I think the biggest issues with this movie were the script is incredibly lackluster. It pretty much Shakespeare. Right, Right. It's like.

But it's ultimately, it's like, okay, it kind of just grinds through the beats of like does a little bit of the origin. Then it does like that it goes to the frost giant. Think it's banished to Earth. And the earth scenes are some of the most boring stuff I've seen.

I mean, I will come back to this statement later on because I, you know, but I like, right now this is going to rank as like one of the more bottom tier boring MCU entries because it is because for that thing on a rewatch, I was just like really just struggling to get through Moto because I'm like, they're in the desert for half the time. They're in this small town. The. I mean, there are some funny quips between his. With Thor's interactions with Natalie Portman and. Right.

There are some fun moments there. But ultimately that was it. But. But even more frustrating was as it was Asgard. Yep, yep. As Dr. Eric Salvage.

But what's even more frustrating is the Asgard aesthetic here is extremely underdeveloped. It's really bad cg. It's like, you know, you're talking about like the, the money they put behind these movies.

And you know, I think at the time this was. There was decent.

So like, he has his, like, his three sidekicks there in the movie and like, and with them it's like, okay, they each kind of have like a one new thing.

But when I think about, like this, and then later on we get to Black Panther and how well that world is established with Wakanda and all the supporting characters are clearly defined. There's none of that here where it's like the supporting characters, I remember them,.

They were super hyped up in, like, the promos and stuff like that, but then they didn't do anything. I remember being excited for the. For the guy from Once Upon a Time. He played one of them.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, casting is not bad, but like. But it's just like, they're also one.

Note, I don't want to spoil something from a future episode, but how do you rank this one versus the second Thor film?

And that's a good question. So like, I. I'll go ahead and say I think the Thor franchise as a whole and is one where they really struggled.

I think Thor as a character, they did well, pretty much in the earlier Avengers movies. And again, casting was always great, but like. But as a character and. And this is something I'll evaluate again more as we go along in the series.

But they really struggled with them. Comparing this1 to Thor2. Thor2 is. Is not a good movie at all either. But. And I think. But I would have to say it's at least a little more entertaining.

Whether it's like. I mean, from what I. I'll have to get off to reassess that once we get to it. But what I it it like, I mean, it's still. It's bad, don't get me wrong.

But like, I. I think with that one at least, like, some of the visuals were a little more t. I. I liked that it was like, more on Asgard and they did a slightly better job with like, the. I mean, while it's still a mess of a script and everything. I. That was the biggest thing with here. Asgard looks really bad. The Earth stuff is boring.

It just never really got going. There was never really any stakes. Like, is as far as, like, a movie that is like the biggest kind of like, trailer for what's to come.

I think it's this, like. I mean, like, it's like Captain America and Iron man. Great origin movies. We'll get to Captain America in a minute. But, like, they stand on their own.

This one is, like, felt like the kind of obligatory. They had to make it in order to set up the Avengers. But as a movie, it doesn't stand on its own. So I, you know, I. I think out of the thorough.

Like a really. Ragnarok is the only one that's good. And even then, I don't think it's a particularly great Thor movie, if that makes sense, because they.

It's a good action comedy and they like. I mean, Taika td, like, brought his own lens and style to that. But even then, it's not super faithful to who the character is. It's just.

It's just a good movie on its own and. Yeah, right, right.

But one of his films.

Yeah, right, right. But, like, out of the others, I think, like, it's that 1 and then 3 very bad, 2 terrible movies. I'll get to my opinions on those later.

But yeah, so this one just, like. Yeah. On a rewatch, it does not hold up. And again, I don't remember exactly. I mean, I know I didn't like.

Oh, my gosh, love it when it came out, but I thought it was fine. Probably back then I was like, okay, you know, some cool stuff on that, but it, you know, particularly because of how the effects.

Not just the effects, but the storytelling, everything else. Yeah. This one is just like.

It's.

It's there. It really does it. You know, it. The stakes are never there.

It's like, obviously he's gonna pick up his hammer, but I never really felt that struggle for him to regain his honor. None of the villains were compelling.

I mean, I guess even Loki here, it's like, you know, it's cool to see Tom Hiddleston's first one, but I don't think they gave the. The script. Doesn't give him much to work with. The Frost Giants look terrible. They look like the.

It's like a early version rip off of the White Walkers. Even though the White Walkers came later, they look awful. And then they throw in a metal robot for Thor to fight on Earth at the end. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's just. Yeah. This one. I don't know. Yeah, I. I'm glad you and your dad particularly enjoyed it when, again, because it's your dad's favorite superhero.

My dad being kind of disappointed, but. But, yeah, it was. Overall, he's like, I'm glad this movie exists.

That's fair.

Yeah.

That I. And. And I. I understand that sentiment because again, for, like, at this time, Especially we're like, wow, they're making these movies.

Like, I mean, we thought for a long time they would only make Batman, Spider Man, Superman, and like, you know, this was a big point of like, even if not all of them are good, I get the sentiment of, like, I'm glad it exists, you know. So, yeah, I just say, you know, I mean, there are some cool ideas that they introduced, but they didn't really go with it. Again, the.

The honor legacy and, you know, him trying to prove to his father that he's worthy. There was stuff they set up, but I don't think they really expanded on and. And.

And the whole, like, magic and science, you know, intertwining, like, that was cool. But again, they didn't really go anywhere with it. So. Yeah, it's just. It's a movie. But I. Yeah, I definitely think this is.

So far in my rewatch, this is easily the weakest end.

Is this where. Is this where Ilger Salba blew up? Because I think so.

So around that. I mean, like, I mean, yeah, he's. He's introduces Hemdell here. I mean, he's not in it much here. He mainly is, like, guarding the bridge.

But this was around that time, I mean, because at that time, it's like. I mean, because when he's making the break to movies, like, I mean, he was in the Wire before that and he started.

But yeah, this was there where he started to really get big. So. So that. So, I mean, that's. I. I think that's the biggest gift this movie gives us is it kickstarted a lot of careers and elevated others.

So that was really cool. But. But as a movie. Yeah, I am. But. So let's talk about some. One thing better. I do have very nice things to say about the next one.

Right on. Let's do it.

I also wanted to say that this is the first MCU movie written by Christopher Marcus and Stephen McFeely, who in their own right, are very key architects of the mcu, particularly of the Infinity saga, because they wrote all three of the Captain America movies and. Yep. And they wrote Infinity War and endgame, and then McFeely is a big deal. Yep. So. So this is cool. But.

Well, I've been talking for a minute, so, Evan, do you want to, like, say a little bit about this movie and your background with it?

Captain America, the First Avenger. I remember thinking the line. The. I remember Thinking, I don't know when, if it was leaked or whatever, but the title was kind of cheesy.

I thought, I'm like, really? They're gonna Avenger? It seemed too blunt and too like, okay, here we are planning something.

But then I saw the concept art for his suit and I was instantly like, excited for. I'm like, that's how you do the suit.

Not making it look cheesy to not make it look like blue spandex and a weird helmet because it was such a smart way to do the suit. That, that it, that it communicated a seriousness but not a commitment to something that they weren't gonna do.

So I remember seeing those concept art being dropped and kind of skeptical that Chris was doing it again. I'm like, really? But, and who the heck is the Red Skull?

Like, I didn't know much about Captain America, but I knew that he had a old 70s or 80s movie. And I remember his shield was cool, but I didn't know too much.

And, and, and I think the film was pretty solid in the, and like, like what I said with the first one or with a Thor, like, they went all out. They got Hugo Weaving, they got Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah, Tommy Jones. Yeah, yeah. And then they, they even got some good supporting characters.

Some good, like a B roll guys. And, and the storyline with him and Peggy Carter was great. And him with Bucky and the whole technology of it all.

And the director, Joe Johnson, I remember thinking that I was so cool because I knew him when he was a part of Star wars and stuff like that and try to pull that card on people. Like, hey, did you know.

So, yeah, he was a student of Lucas. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah. Overall, I really love this movie.

I, I, I, I was, I came out of it going, I think whatever they are doing with these films, I think for the most part it's in good hands. So.

No, absolutely. This is one always have a, like fond remembrance of and it still very much holds up.

So, like, I was, you know, kind of ready going in. I like the character a lot and I, and I did laugh too at the end of like, oh, wow.

They had the guy from Fantastic Four playing him now, you know, and, but, you know, absolutely perfect casting that was, you know, like Chris Evans just stepped right into this role. Of Steve Rogers. I also have a fun memory I have of this one is like, my dad and I saw this one when it came out, and he actually.

I don't know if he still does work with this guy, but he worked with the guy ups named Steve Rogers. So he. He joked about that with him the.

The week, you know, like, you know, after seeing over the Weekend with me, he's like, hey, it's Captain America. You know, like. And that was fun, but. Right, right. Yeah. So that was really cool. And.

But yeah, no, I really love this movie from the beginning, and it absolutely holds up. I love the pulpy World War II aesthetic of it.

I like how it's a movie that stands on its own, but it absolutely plants the seeds for the larger universe and sets up the Avengers really well. But it's not beholden to that. It very much is much like the first Iron Man. It focuses on telling a good story and making you connect with.

You connect with the rest of the cast.

To him in the first Iron Man. That was a fun tease. I remember that being. Yes, a big deal.

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, exactly. Exactly. They were planting the seeds very early on. And seeing it all, this is where you get to see it really come to fruition.

Because, like, I guess, I mean, at this point it's like, yeah, with Thor, with Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, it's like, okay, they're building stuff, but this is where it's like, really? Like, oh, yeah, no, Avengers is definitely happening now. And. But again, you can still enjoy this movie on its own.

And I really love comparing this one with the first Iron man because not only do you really have a clearly defined origin story, clearly my character, but, like, the links between them, even though they are very different personalities, they come from totally different worlds. I love that their stories still mirror one another.

So, like, for instance, where a big thing is like Erskine here, played by Stanley Tucci, the scientist who oversees the Super Super Soldier initiative.

You know, he's this kind of older mentor figure who believes in Steve and is part of his life for a very brief time, but has a profound impact on him. Same thing happens with. With the ensign in Iron Man. And so I love, you know, that parallel there.

Then obviously, Howard Stark is, you know, a big part of this.

That was a cool connection.

Yes. And like, and I love how they come back to an adventures where when Tony first meets Steve, he's like, that's the guy my dad never shut up about.

You know, like, I love that one. We'll get to that. But. But yeah, it's just like, you know, and, and like you said, I mean, Hayley Atwell is fantastic as Becky Carter.

It's the introduction of Bucky, you know, and like.

But you know what I was just saying about Thor in terms of like, yeah, I was all right at the time, but like, it really doesn't hold up today because there have been so many other movies that have been better. What I really love about this movie is like, it absolutely holds up today. I mean, I, I know people who are like, come on, that one's dumb.

Like, you know, and I'm like, no, this is like the, the MCU wouldn't work with movie without movies like this. It's like this is laid the foundation for everything they get for sure. After that, it very much fits in time.

And yes, I'm so glad you brought up Joe Johnston because, yeah, he came from the school of George Lucas. He worked on Star wars and you know, he directed movies like Jumanji and October sky, which were favorites of mine as a kid. Yeah,.

First DVD back then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that was a favorite of ours growing up. And so. So I think he very much brings the sensibility.

I mean.

Yeah, yes, exactly. And I mean, I mean, it captures the World War II feel. I love the Howling Commandos. I love how they do Red Skull. Yeah. So, yes, that was fun.

Oh, Neil McDonough leading in and Kenneth Choi in there. Great casting. And yes, Hugo Weaving, absolutely perfect casting is Red Skull. He just brings that kind of.

I mean, you have to have a first rate villain here to chat. And it's one where it doesn't feel overly cheesy.

This is like a very sadistic character who is trying to surpass Hitler and you know, and I mean, and is obsessed with the occult and that. Oh, like all of the, the Indiana Jones influence is so apparent here. I just, I love it.

Like, I mean, it just like, because, I mean, I know one of the big criticisms levity of the mcu and I, and I do agree with it, is that like a lot of times the style and the Marvel brand is there throughout and it doesn't allow as much of. For creativity with like directors visions. But I think this is an example where Joe Johnston really lets his unique lens and aesthetic shine here.

And all the, like I said, Indiana Jones, Jumanji, all of those influences are very apparent and as our classic World War II movies. So it just. Yeah, man, it, it flows. It's a great, you know, it's obviously a great underdog story and I Thought, you know, this is the one.

I. I saw my dad and like, you know, I think if my dad were to see an MCU movie today, he'd be like, what is going on? I'm like. And I'm like, yeah, you kind of have to watch 30 other movies.

Like, this is a great example of one where, like, you can watch this one on its own, perfectly enjoy it. And. And like, you say, like you said, you know, you got Tommy Lee Jones and great actors in here. Appeal to. Yes.

Bring some weight and, like, appeal to mainstream audiences. And it just tells a good story. There's not really any point where it really lags. There are some great fight sequences and.

And again, it establishes everything about Steve's character and lays the foundation for him and Bucky. And it only gets better.

These special effects on his.

Yes, yes.

They were huge back then. I remember seeing, like, the breakdowns on how they did the. The. A small vers. Of. Of Chris Evans. And I was like, wow, this is amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. And so. No, they were rather. And like. Yeah. And like, it's like with Thor, it's like. Yeah.

I think the special effects there are really weak, but this one came out in the same year and it's like Night and Day. It's like, you know, I mean, it's just. I mean, they really put the end. And I. You know, when you're done bringing up the title. I agree.

Like, when they first said I'm like, in that. But then when you watch the movie, it fits so well because it. It's. Right, it fits in with that pulpy aesthetic.

And it's both an origin for Steve and also setting up the Avengers. But it's not too overstuffed or anything.

When I was making Face Lights, I wasn't sure to put the colon or not because they.

Right, right.

Because they didn't have it. And usually that means it's just all one title, so.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's like. Yeah. No. So I just. I really love this movie. I think it has a lot to say about heroism, and it's not.

It introduces very, like, golden. A Boy Scout type character without it being, like, so unrealistic. You know, it's like, you know, having like. It's like we've.

Everyone had fall in love with the first Iron man movie, and he's this, like, very cocky, arrogant, egotistical protagonist. And here you have the direct opposite. But at the same time, it's like, you know, you know, he starts insecurities.

I still love how, like, Peggy chastises them for not knowing how to talk to a woman. And, like, their dynamic and the chemistry there is flawless. But. But, no, he's a really, like, grounded character.

He's just a guy who wants to do what's right, and he wants to stand up to bullies. And Chris Evans just fully embraced that and gave it it all is all.

And in this role, the only thing that. That I don't like about it is that I never got that. I never got into a Peggy show, Agent Carter.

I just never got around to watching it, and I heard so many good things about it.

And I also. I unfortunately, have not gotten to either.

But, like, that's on my list this year as, like, as I'm gonna try to, like, fill in some of my gaps because there is still. There's so much MCU stuff out there.

I was trying to remember. Did. Did Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Was already out already, right?

No, it came after the first Avengers, because, remember. Because remember, like, Coulson dies in Avengers, and then they operated. Yeah. So Agents of Tahiti, I think, was like, whatever.

And I think Agent Carter was a little bit after that, if I'm not mistaken, somewhere on that.

Right.

But yeah, yeah. So, yeah, Very nice things about it. I love this movie. And now let's get on to the big one. The big let's eat shawarma together.

Nice.

I love. I love how you put on the slide here for. For those not watching on YouTube. Evan's done the slides for these, and.

How old were you? It was. It was Star Wars Day.

Yeah, yeah.

How. How old. How old were you when it came out? Because I was a senior in high school, so I have my. Like, I want to share, you know, where I was then.

But, like, do you remember, like, where you were in life?

25 Or 26, I remember.

Okay, cool.

I remember vividly. We were moving out of our first apartment that we. That me and my wife had together.

We were moving to a different part of town when this movie came out, like, on that day, and her and her parents were. They were. They were helping us move. And I remember when we finally finished, we.

We finally got everything to the new place, and we Were all just like, huh? And then I brought it up. Hey guys, you want to go watch a movie?

Because, Because I wanted to watch it so bad because it was so hyped up and you know, like I was in the scene, like I couldn't wait for this movie and I was just like, I want to go watch it. You guys want to go watch it? And they were like, yeah, sure, let's go. I was like, yes, thank God.

And, and my, I remember my in laws they have, they knew about the characters but they didn't want to touch any of the, any of the previous movies. But they loved this film. They loved it.

Yeah, they thought it was great and just the comedy, the stakes were big and aliens and, and I remember just hype around this movie. I will never forget one of my favorite podcasts around that time was called.

Was called Battleship Retention and my buddy Tyler Smith was on it and he was saying that he felt like we were living in cinema history and that we've never seen something like this before.

Like that we've seen it in the comics, how we had the whole build up and they had like crossovers and team up comics, but we had never really seen it in film and we've never seen it done so good.

And I just remember that always stuck with me in saying that, yeah, we lived in like, we can tell our kids later that we lived through a culmination of the Avengers. So. And that's a pretty big deal, I think.

I love how you say it like that because I, it's like, you know the movie Troy at the end of it, like it was like, let us, let us say that we lived in the times of Achilles and Hector.

But it literally is, it's like because this is a modern mythology, it's like for us, it's like, let us let our children know that we lived in the time of Tony Stark Rogers on screen. Yeah, but no, I mean I, Yeah, and I mean for me it was a similar thing of like. So I, I remember, I eventually remember.

Yeah, I was just about to graduate from high school. I had what, like. Yeah, about a month left, I think, you know, and so we're already, you know, pretty checked out.

We're just kind of like cruising through and like, I mean. And I cannot wait to go see oh big time Senioritis. But, but we were enjoying it too, like happening, you know.

And so yeah, I couldn't wait that Friday go see this after school. And yeah, I mean it absolutely blew my mind. I mean I, I think I saw it at least three or four times. And this was the same summer as, like.

Oh, yeah, yeah. This was the same summer as Dark Knight Rises. And, you know, it was just all the, like.

But I mean, that, like you said, it was just like, okay, we had seen gobble movies at this point. You know, we.

I'd been there for Dark Knight and all this stuff, but this was just a whole nother level of, like, you know, regardless of, like, whether it's the best or not. But it just. The culmination of everything, like, seeing all these characters on screen at once. And it actually came together and they delivered.

And it delivered. Yes. Yeah. I mean, because this could have easily fallen apart. It's like, you know, there. There's easily a.

Another universe where it's like, okay, yeah, we got an Avengers movie. But it was terrible. Like, no, here it was. Here it was like, it hit all the beats. All the characters got, you know, a storyline here.

They naturally came together. Like you said, the stakes were high. You know, I mean, I think there was an element of, like, you know, our every.

Even though obviously they're going to save the world, but is everyone going to make it out by the end? What's going to happen? What is that?

You know, I was really skeptical about Loki being the bad guy.

Yeah, Yeah.

I was waiting for that to, like, to not work, but it worked, like.

Yeah, yeah. Because, like, we were talking about earlier, like, I mean, the way he's written in the first Thor movie is not great.

I mean, like, you know, performance, but, like, it's a side character. And it's like, you know, is he really the one who can challenge the Avengers in the fact.

It's like, yes, that was what they did in the comics in the first iteration, but still, it's like, you know, is he the one they should get. And there were earlier drafts where actually Red Skull was the main villain. They were gonna bring him back, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So there's a million directions they could have gone with, but. But no, it works. The. The humor is great. I. I know Josh Whedon is a very problematic figure, and that's why. But back. Or at least we didn't know. Yes.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. And that was the thing, too, is like, yes, he had done movies before. He had done Serenity, but he came mainly from his TV background.

And any. Any idea, you know, re watching this, too? I. It is interesting the way the story is structured. It's so him.

And it also is, in many ways, it feels structured like a season of tv. But it works. And it's. Yeah, because, I mean, even you could break it up in ep.

It's like the first episode, you could have the intro with, you know, Loki's attack and unshield and then starting and then, you know, the first hour being them kind of assembling, and then the second being them kind of working together and so on and so forth. But, like. But it still works as a movie. And I mean, it has all the blockbuster spectacle. It's just. This is clearly.

It's a script in a direction that very much understands these characters. It, you know, like, it puts them together in natural scenarios. I mean, the first time Iron Man, Thor and Cap fight in the woods, there is just.

You know, I even watched a screen Crush video recently about saying that that is like, one of the most important scenes in the mcu. Because, like. Yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, everything else that comes after that doesn't work without that dynamic there. But, yeah, it's just.

I mean, it keeps you engaged. It was one of the best theatrical experiences I had had in my life up until that point. And still, I look back finally on.

Yeah, I still don't like a Captain America suit in this. It's so tacky.

It's a little over top. Yeah, Yeah.

I still.

I agree. It got. It got better as it went along. Yes, Yes.

I was waiting for them to. To. To do something with the Hulk and I. And, like, I knew why they couldn't do his own film, so I was excited.

And they just blended it so smoothly into this plot.

And that was the thing, like, when doing this series. And I was talking. I said earlier that, like, I actually, like, enjoyed Incredible Hulk more on a re watch than I thought I might. But.

But, you know, it still has its issues, of course, but, like. But I. You know, I still appreciate.

But this one is, like, you know, I mean, no disrespect to Edward Norton, but it was just like when, you know, once he kind of fell out and they brought Mark Ruffalo in. Mark Ruffalo. Just wait. I mean, for him, like, this being his first time as Banner and Hulk, he absolutely nailed it. I love how.

And that's something that it could have been. You know, he could have barely made appearances and just kind of been in the background.

But I love what the script does with making him very integral to the story. And, you know, he steps right into the shoes of that character.

You see his hesitancy to even be a part of this because he's just finally been getting the Hulk under control and he doesn't want to risk anything. And you know, and he's like very level headed but. But still the tensions are high.

They're all butting heads with each other and it's like, yes, you know that it's gonna. He's relying on that and Right. And like. And very much all of that lays the groundwork for civil war later on.

But, but still here you see all the banter, you see that this group of unlikely. And then. Yes. Oh, it's. Oh, it's just like. Yeah, like oh my gosh. Why that's the thing. Watching it now is like I can't watch all the memes. Yes.

Oh my gosh. It's just like back then I don't think we like meme culture wasn't what it is today. And so like now like, I mean. Oh, watching.

I mean even the scene when like Tony's in the background and does the like eye glare role. Yeah, like, I mean that's. I'm like, oh my gosh, there's a meme. There's a meme. There's a meme. Like, you know, and oh, that man is playing Galga.

You know, I mean like all the things. That little thing that was here. Yes.

And the whole Tony Stark like trying to close one eye to see how he drove the ship or whatever. Was it Tony story? Classic. Yeah.

Yep, yep. And like when Tony and Steve like lay at each other and those are the like, you know, like, like that's been memed a thousand times. Like, oh,.

I got that reference. That the. I understood that reference. Was that from this one or was it.

Yes, yes, that was in this one way. When Steve says, I understand that reference. Yes. Because he's been clueless to so many.

I remember my father in law, he loved how, how, how Captain America was, was treated. I remember when he said his line, he goes, ma', am, there's only one God and he doesn't dress like that. And he claps. He's like, yeah,.

It's just so like they're so unabashedly themselves in this movie. There's no trying to like sugarcoat anything. They all shine. Yeah. It just lifted straight from the page of the comics. Hawkeye. That another one.

It's like he was only in one scene in Thor and that was how it was introduced. And again this movie is such a juggling act for. And it's amazing it came to end like. And Fury has only had cameos at this point.

Well, he has a little bigger role in Iron Man 2. But still slate cameo and, like, they make him very integral to the story. They make Black Widow very integral.

This was the first. Yeah, sorry, sorry.

No, you're good. Go ahead.

This was the first time, I think, for whatever reason, I found out that it was Kevin's feige behind all this, you know?

Yeah, Yeah.

I was like, oh, so he's been the one kind of behind all of this. Wow. And then I didn't know his history with the company and stuff like that, so.

Right, right. And this just shows the. Like, I mean, yes, he was the main architect, and then you had all these other creators, like, you know, and, like.

And I mean, people, like, forget that. Like, they did not have this massive plan from the beginning. Like, they were still.

Right, you know, kind of like, are, you know, drawing it up as they went along.

Contrary. Still popular belief now it's like, kids, you have no idea. Like, come on.

They did not have the Infinity Saga mapped out for years and years, but. But still, they made it all work here and it. It came out.

What was the next movie after this?

Yeah, so there's a break. And then it was Iron Man 3.

Oh, was it? Okay.

So this was a time when, like, there was, like, it was not like they were putting out a movie, like, every few months like they do now. Like, I mean, well, of course now it slowed down a little bit, but, like. And there was that build up in the anticipation.

But, yeah, there was a big gap between this and then.

Yeah, they just kind of rolled the dice with. With Thanos at the end of this one, because I remember hearing, like, they didn't know kind of where they wanted to go. But yeah, no. Yeah.

And it's like they. It's like they'd had Infinity Stones planet. But, yeah, absolutely. They did not have this big, you know, end game plan yet. So that. Yeah, but.

But they dropped that. And I still remember that reaction of like, you know, everyone's like, oh, my gosh, like, they're being Thanos. They're like, that was.

I didn't know who Thanos was.

Right, right.

I thought it was. I forgot who that was, but Some sort of meme or something.

But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, but there's just so much of this movie. It still holds up.

I mean, yes, there are better MCU movies, I think now, but in terms of just the magnitude of what this was and what it Meant when it came out, we just never thought, like, wow, they would do an Avengers movie like this or a Justice League or anything like that.

And they were so creative. And they battled the Battle of New York.

Like, yes.

The whole thing with, like, Iron man kind of bouncing it off of Cap's shield and stuff like that.

Yes, yes.

And the Hulk and the way he was, like, kind of struggling through the battle and they were. It kind of like, it kind of makes me think of the final battle at Of Return of the Jedi that there were so many moving pieces going on, and they.

And they just kind. And they kind of cut it. They just kind of put it together so well. So well. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. Oh, and like, Black Widow bouncing off Cap SHIELD and jumping onto a Shitari cruiser, like, all that, you know, Like, I mean, there's this, so.

And of course, you know, the. The iconic tracking shot. You know, you'll never forget the first time you saw that with the Alan Silvestri score pulsating in your ears.

It was just awesome.

Yeah. Oh, and the whole. This is where the Hulk and a Thor kind of had their.

They do have their. Yep. They're the little buddy cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, and, like. And. Yeah. And. And, oh, and we have the fun.

I mean, I still remember the laughter that ensued when Hulk smashes Loki to pieces after somebody's, like, so funny. Puny. God. Yeah. Like, oh. Oh.

I could not believe it. I was like, that's hilarious. First thing doing. I thought. I thought they were gonna go through the floor. It's like.

Right.

But I was like, oh, I know.

Right? Yeah. Ah, but there's just so much about this one that, like. Yeah, it's.

The whole Battle of New York was such a pivotal plot for the whole rest of the. For, like, probably good 10 movies after that. You know, it's like.

Yeah, absolutely.

It was a part of the whole storyline.

And even in the, like, in the Netflix Marvel shows, they have. Maybe they. You know, they have the. Ben Yurik has the paper, the newspaper with the. The headline he wrote, you know, I mean. Yeah, all that. So it's.

This was just a gargantuan. It's like, we. You know, I think if, like, you have new MCU fans coming to, you know, like, younger generations watching these now.

Like, it's like, hey, there was a time where, like, this was just a huge deal for all these characters to come together, and there's never gonna be something quite like it.

You know, just not for the nerds, too. It was.

Right, Right.

Huge. Like my. Oh, my dad and.

Yep, yep.

My dad told me stories that they were talking about it at work and stuff. Like, it's wild. It was wild.

It was just this pop culture juggernaut that you had to be a part of. And, you know, and. And I think now it's like the MCU was kind of, you know, we'll see.

I'm really curious what will happen with Doomsday is it's gonna have that effect, but. Oh, at that time, it was like, yeah, you couldn't go to work or school if you hadn't seen the latest movie.

You had to, you know, be in tune with the conversation.

I remember this was where Dark Knight Rises was that you said.

It was about. About two months later.

Yeah, yeah. I remember going. Because I remember I wanted to see this Avengers more times than I saw Batman because I didn't like how Batman finished.

Right, right, right. That's fair.

I was kind of like trying tooth ticket to the man.

No, that's fair. I mean, like, you know, like, oh, I could do a whole episode. I saw this probably like three or.

Four times and I think. So Dark Knight Rises maybe just twice or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, Amazing Spider man was that year as well, so it was.

Was it really? Yeah, I don't think I saw it then, though. I don't think I did.

Yeah.

Oh, possibly.

It was quite the year.

Cool, man, cool.

But, yeah, well, they're not the Avengers. And Evan, before we go. So if you had to rank all three of these movies, you know, I. I mind, but. But what would you put in terms of top or if you.

I don't know, if you want to do maybe number three. Number two. Number one.

Number three. Four, Two Captain and one Avengers.

Yeah.

I think if you don't have that, you are wrong.

Now we have the same ranking for this one. It was really. It was really fascinating doing the last episode.

If you watch it, like the Iron man, Iron Man 2 and Hulk 1, Christian and I had very different answers there. But the Fox X Men trilogy and this one, it's very unanimous. But.

And even that, the only thing I was like, I actually do put Avengers and First Cap pretty close together. I think Avengers gets a point above just for being the Juggernaut that it was and like, bringing them all together. But I really do love.

And for me, though, I like. I really like Thor, so.

Yeah. Yeah.

So Thor is just under Captain America for me.

That's fair. Yeah. So awesome. Well, this is. Oh, I'm loving this series. It's an absolute blast to go through all these. So. But I.

And if you're listening, watching out there, you know, share your thoughts with us. We want to hear what your rankings would be, any insights that you have that we missed.

And, yeah, I'm really enjoying watching all these and, you know, any Easter eggs you find that maybe lead to clues about doomsday, I'm, you know, geeking out on all of that. So thank you all for being with us. This was so much fun. And remember, we are all a chosen people. A geekdom of priests. Avengers, assemble.

Go eat shawarma.