Andy Walsh, Kevin Schaefer, Evan Garcia, and Liz Clyde dig into Lanterns right off the bat, calling it a gritty, HBO-style Green Lantern murder mystery that lands as a strong character study but low-key skips a bunch of classic Lantern lore. Andy says he liked the big ideas and the themes about fear and free will, but he wanted more of the wild Green Lantern imagination. Evan and Kevin praise the tone and the Jon Stewart-Hal Jordan arc, and they joke that the show made them want therapy and popcorn. Liz says she loves Though I Am an Inept Villainess, a short 11-episode Chinese anime that’s sweet, dubbed, and full of body-swap fun where the “villainess” keeps doing good. They trade light banter about baby footage, comics apps, and streaming changes while keeping things chill and funny. Overall the crew thinks Lanterns earns its mood and risks, and they send a wink to folks who want quick, cozy anime or a slow-burn superhero tale.

Andy steers the deep part of the night into Lanterns and the crew gets serious. Kevin calls it an adult, HBO‑style noir. Evan says it plays like a top tier mystery. They liked the mood and the long slow build. She points out the show focuses on fear, training, and free will. Jon Stewart is raised to be fearless. Hal is a haunted man who learns to feel. A key hologram scene where Hal tells Jon not to be afraid to be afraid lands as the emotional heart. They break down a tough finale choice. Carrie’s moment of panic that kills Hal sparks debate. He says the show chooses character over spectacle. That is brave. Fans who wanted more classic Lantern lore did grumble.

They also dig into deeper themes. Andy links the story to debates about free will, programming, and how trauma gets passed down. Evan keeps yelling at characters to seek therapy, which gets laughs. They like the final beat where Jon defines his own path, but some worry it opens doors to darker turns like Parallax. The time jumps and flashbacks jar a bit. Overall, they praise the craft and hope the DCU keeps making different kinds of shows. They finish soft, with merch plugs and one last smile for the baby who steals the mic.

Takeaways:

• Andy said Lanterns felt like a True Detective style mystery focusing on Jon Stewart's origin and fear.
• Andy said the show skipped the imaginative, ring powered creativity that makes Green Lantern stories unique and fun.
• Liz said Though I Am an Inept Villainess is a short, funny eleven episode Chinese anime about a body swap and accidental goodness.
• Liz said she is new to motherhood and she loves the English dub so she can watch with the baby.
• Kevin called the finale chef's kiss for its emotional arc, even if it skipped some big comic book beats.
• Evan and Kevin both liked the storytelling first approach and said the finale tied up emotional threads even if anticlimactic.
• Andy reflected the show raised big questions about free will, programming, and how our past limits choices today.
• They noted the new DCU tone skews adult but hoped for more family friendly superhero stories alongside the darker shows.

.

Be sure to check out our merch, find extra content, and become an official member of Systematic Geekology on our website:

https://systematic-geekology-shop.fourthwall.com/

.

Check out all of our anime episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/ff4343b3-82e0-4173-a884-1608a49eec5b

.

Listen to our other DC episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/8c9da262-e657-44a7-b14a-9649933f5347

.

Check out other episodes with Kevin:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/84fd7d06-cf1f-48e5-b358-09a01c5a6bc9

.

Check out other episodes with Andy:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/c86f7a67-357b-4324-bf95-e42cedb9932a

.

Don't miss any of Evan's episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/db75189a-04f3-4129-9a5d-ade41cf863b5

.

Listen to all of Liz's episodes:

https://player.captivate.fm/collection/b4feaf6c-e817-4e86-b6f3-e13c0abc7147

Mentioned in this episode:

The Anazao Podcast Network

Be sure to check out the network website to see other podcasts trying to engage honestly with Scripture, Theology, Pop Culture, Martial Arts, Science, and more!

Anazao Podcast Network

Subscribe to our show on YouTube

You can get the video version of the show and lots of extra exclusives on our YouTube channel!

YouTube

Systematic Geekology

Our show focuses around our favorite fandoms that we discuss from a Christian perspective. We do not try to put Jesus into all our favorite stories, but rather we try to ask the questions the IPs are asking, then addressing those questions from our perspective. We are not all ordained, but we are the Priests to the Geeks, in the sense that we try to serve as mediators between the cultures around our favorite fandoms and our faith communities.

Get Your SG Merch now!

Check out the link to see all of our different t-shirts, backpacks, drinking glasses, pajamas, and more!

SG on Fourthwall

Donate to our Show / Check Out Free Extras

Check out our show on Fourthwall to donate to the podcast or get free extra content!

SG on Fourthwall

I love all beautiful things.

I will fight to protect them.

Hello systematic geekologists and welcome to another episode of what's News where we talk about all the latest geek happenings.

I'm Andy Walsh and I am joined this evening to talk about lanterns.

And though I am an inept villainous with Kevin Schaefer, Evan Garcia and Liz and New Baby, if you are watching on the video, get an extra bonus content of cute baby footage.

The best.

And if you're not, well that's just a good reason to remember next time to check out the video or check it out on YouTube after the fact.

You can always watch these things after they happen.

But if you're watching live, if you are enjoying cute baby footage as it is happening, please feel free to say hey in the comments.

Give us a shout out from where you're watching and listening from and we are happy to say hi and hear from you.

Thank you for that.

We also appreciate it when folks rate and or review and or like and or subscribe to podcasts videos wherever you happen to be getting this.

We do appreciate that.

So it helps other people find out about what's going on.

It helps us to feel like we are not screaming into the void.

So please do go ahead and do that.

And as always, if we get 50 likes on a video, Will Rose will do something outrageously entertaining for your amusement.

I heard Will's going to get a Green Lantern ring and be the declare himself designated protector of this sector of the dirt.

That would be fantastic.

So yeah, so we can look forward to that.

And we want to thank folks who provide financial support that make it possible to do especially these extra video things.

So thank you to Austin Nance and everyone who has provided financial support of one flavor or another one time ongoing whatever you're able to do.

We appreciate it.

It helps to pay for the things that make this show go so as smoothly as it does.

And if you don't think it goes as smoothly as it could, all the more incentive to chip in some more money and see what happens.

You can also find all kinds of merch and find out how to become a member and all those good things.

If you look for a link in the description of this video that will tell you how to do that, how to get those goodies and so forth.

So yeah, thank you again and we appreciate all of you, even if you're just listening.

That is also super helpful because again, we don't like screaming into the void.

We like knowing that we're having a conversation not just amongst ourselves but among our other fellow geeks as well.

All right, that business out of the way, it is time for the lightning round.

I am going to call out people in the order that I see them on my screen just so that we can keep things organized.

So Kevin, what geek lightning round topics do you have for us?

Well, it is Halloween, so I always do.

I'm not one who.

I wish I had time to watch like a horror movie every night.

I haven't had that kind of time.

But you know, I always check out a lot of horror stuff around this time.

So so far I've done things like I, I rewatched both Black Phone movies which hold up really well.

I did Jennifer's Body the other night, which I actually had never seen, which I would.

I know that was like a guy like millennial classic and like cult classic that I just.

Yeah, but yeah, that was a.

So that was a cool first time experience.

And then comic wise too.

I, because I got a Joe Hill bundle, actually I got a couple like some of his prose fiction and then some of his comics several months ago on Humble Bundle, which is a really good site y' all should check out.

And the comics one had this one called the Cape, which is based on one of his short stories.

And it's a dark spin on superheroes where this kid gets like a magical cape that lets him fly as a kid, but then he has an accident and that kind of sets him down a path of depression and despair and he ends up becoming really dark as an adult.

And it does a very dark superhero story from that point on.

So the comic was pretty good.

Yeah, so those are some of the things.

And then obviously with the topic tonight, you know, I have the DC app and so I've been delving into some of the older Green Lantern stuff.

So that's been really fun too.

Cool.

How about you, Evan?

For me, I've been getting back into comics a lot lately and so what, so what's happening?

It's phenomenal.

It's good.

And it's a pretty cool stories.

They, they, they definitely got me hooked for the rest of them because, because some of them continue.

So it's pretty cool.

To see that.

And and I like getting back in the comments.

I missed it.

Welcome back.

Yes.

That's kind of a climax of the ongoing books plot lines if if that made any sense to you.

What you what you know, if you enjoyed that.

If you didn't enjoy it.

What without getting too spoilery.

I did.

Yes, I did enjoy it.

There was a little synopsis at the beginning that I that that was enough for me to to enjoy it.

But it is a fun little twist.

It's a fun.

It's a fun perspective that I've never seen.

Cool.

I will also use this as an excuse without getting too deep into spoilers, but it might be a good opportunity to check out we did some episodes podcast feed about the faces behind Peter Parker as part of our annual theme.

I was on one about Peter Parker's parents and I forget if it's out now yet or not, but I know there is one in the queue if it's not out already about Uncle Ben and Aunt May so that may be of interest thinking about current spread ran events.

So I'll plug that as well and then we come to Liz.

And please feel free to use this as an invitation to tell us only as much as you want to tell us about your extra special guest there as well as whatever else you might be geeking out on.

Yeah, I mean what's new is motherhood.

He's nine and a half weeks old.

It's been a roller coaster, so not much geeking out.

I have been watching bottom tier character Tomozaki.

So that's season one and it's pretty much like you're a nerd who meets up with another nerd like off, you know, offline in real life.

And then he finds out that, you know, classic.

She's the popular girl and so she's upset that the number one ranked play it and it's pretty much a knockoff.

The game he plays is a knockoff of Smash Bros. And so she tries to help him level up his social life.

So that's been kind of fun.

Other than that, lots of Facebook Marketplace scrolls at 2am Feeding the baby, lots of diapers, lots of dancing vegetables on YouTube.

So yeah, not doing too much watching a lot of hgtv because when you get, I don't know, like if it's blaming nesting, I'm not really like into like the whole like, you know, like the cliches and whatnot.

But my husband was reading a book when I right before giving birth, I was like, your wife might get really into more as she nests.

So I've been like obsessed with Canadian home design on YouTube.

This YouTuber called Alexander like greater whoa.

She's.

I've, you know, it's just, it's very hum.

Well, not humbling.

It's very interesting.

You can watch six years of someone's videos in one month.

So voyeurismand is finest.

Dude, it was like.

And of course I want to redo my whole house, but with what time?

Because now I have a little parasite attached to me at all times.

Oh wait.

I mean I'm keep him.

He's cute.

Yeah, I did think about giving him back.

I asked someone if they would wanted to buy him.

Did you keep the receipt?

No.

Well, the birth certificate, that should work.

But that was like all sales of.

Final a Blue Light Special.

But other than that, it's been good just taking it one day at a time.

So I'm excited.

Like I had something I finished in anime that's kind of new to geek out with you guys on tonight and.

We're looking forward to that and congratulations to you and your family and of course all good things going forward.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I will throw in my lightning round topics real quick.

Staying on the comics front, very fresh news, just about 24 hours old.

Is that the Marvel Unlimited app of which I have spoken about on comics podcasts, comics book catch up episodes that is going away and being replaced with a webtoon based app that seems like it'll be very similar in terms of library access and so forth.

But we'll see what kind of features.

I'm excited because there's the option to be able to be only a month behind as opposed to three months behind on new comics.

So for the things that I keep up with on Marvel Unlimited, I'll be less out of the loop, at least for a little while.

They're letting you try out that feature basically for the same prices as current Marvel Unlimited before for a year before you have to pay the extra.

So at least give that a try for a year.

I'm choosing to be positive and optimistic and lots of well wishes and sympathy to all the engineers who have a hard deadline in about a month now that's been announced to the whole wide world that they're switching over to this new platform.

They have to migrate the profiles and reading histories.

However many thousands of geeks who care very much about these things.

So I can only imagine what that will be like as that deadline looms and then comes and then happens.

And then of course, there's a glitch and of course people are going to be very animated about that.

So all the best to those folks that have to deal with that and to any geeks who might be listening, give them an extra day or two, give them some patience and some grace when they make that transition next month.

It's going to have some bumps, but it'll be fine.

All will be well.

Also, give a shout out to the engineers who have to handle HBO Mount plus Paramount, whatever it becomes called, because that's coming too, unfortunately.

Sure, yeah, we have less details about that and the deadline for that.

But yes, certainly that's going to be its own challenge as well.

And then also something actual thing that I have seen, I tried out the Unabomber movie on Netflix.

May, you know, it's one of the things that could very well have dropped on Netflix and nobody noticed, but it happened.

I guess they want to do.

Yeah, a very odd choice of a movie.

The apprehension of the Unabomber is not the most cinematic of events.

And so they kind of intercut that with a story about the childhood or the early adulthood of Ted Kaczynski, which it's unclear from a little bit of reading that I did.

It's unclear how much of that actually played into his later development.

But it was a very interesting insight into the kinds of things that you could get away with, the kinds of unethical things that you get away with in psychological studies in the 50s and 60s that were approved and university sponsored and government sponsored and so forth.

So if nothing else, it's another insight into the movie, like the Stanford Prison Experiment movie that came out a while back and some of these other things where this is not the most egregious.

But Ted Kaczynski, as it happens, was a subject in one of these psychological studies where they did things that were, yes, ill advised.

Nevertheless, I did appreciate there was a moment probably about two thirds of the way through where Russell Crowe's character, the lead scientist on this dubious experiment, gives an explanation for why science doesn't always go in a straight line and why you can't always just sort of order up.

I want these applied results to my science.

I want this technology, and I want it in six months or a year or whatever.

And so that feels relevant to the current conversations we're having about science funding and so forth.

So I did appreciate that little moment of the movie.

The rest of it was a bit of an odd duck, but well acted and an interesting insight into the history of psychology.

Like I said, even if it maybe is not so much insightful about the title subject.

Hey, Liz, I just have to say, your son's laugh is really impressive for.

Only nine weeks, you know, and he's doing it all while sleeping.

Look at that.

Yeah, that's.

He's got a future in something.

Radio voice, work something, or, you know, super villainy.

All right, well, thus ends our lightning round.

And so now we will get into our two main topics, starting with, Though I am an inept villainess.

And Liz, I don't know if anybody else has seen this.

I have not seen this.

So I apologize for asking you to monologue a bit, but in the spirit of super villainy, please monologue at us for a little while about Doan am an inept villainess.

I feel this is a Chinese anime, so I feel like I like this so much because number one, there's only 11 episodes.

It's in English.

I know some people hate English dub, but I'm keeping a human alive, so dub is the only way for me right now.

It is what it is, but I feel like if I was a villainess, this would be me, the person.

So pretty much we have someone who's bitter and jealous and who dabbles in dark magic.

And, you know, I watched this so late, I can't even tell you the names at the moment because postpartum brain.

But pretty much the one in red is a part of, like, the Fire Clan house.

It's the Chinese where the emperor gets pretty much four concubines, four houses, and the emperor in training, the sun.

And so they're all competing to try and be the empress, pretty much.

And so the red girl switches places with the butterfly.

The yellow girl, her name is Rinrin, because that's easy to remember.

But pretty much the crown emperor or prince loves the yellow girl, so she's trying to to be the favorite.

But the yellow girl is so beautiful, so kind, has a weak body.

So when she switches with red girl.

I know.

Don't you love my commentary?

It's so great.

Like, she's so thankful that she has a healthy body.

Like, she's so excited to be the villainess.

Like, everything is going great.

You know, her personality didn't change at all.

If anything, she tries to help the person who made her switch because, you know, now she's so sick, so she's helping nurse her back to Health.

And she keeps on remembering like, oh yeah, I'm a villainess.

So she tries to do bad and ends up doing good.

So it's just, it's hilarious.

And then there's a whole back dark story with their pretty much their guardians.

So their guardian is the current emperor's concubines.

And so they pretty much each house, they pick their own person to try and get to be the crown empress down the road.

So it's drama, it's fantasy, it's romance.

You know, I love the romance.

But best of all, it's only 11 episodes.

So you can really do this in a day.

If you like the romance and like the Chinese, I can't.

I don't know what you guys will know the term, like the term for it.

Like the whole like it's not Meiji error, but the whole like is very.

If you like Apothecary Diaries, you would like this.

It's very much that area.

Yeah.

Interesting.

So then it sounds like you would say that if somebody wasn't super familiar with anime in general that this might be a gentle introduction because it doesn't ask you to commit the rest of your life to one show.

Yeah, I mean I am not caught up on one piece right now.

But yeah.

So it's a quick, easy, like I said 11 episode.

It's not really romance y.

So I was a little sad about that.

But it, it's more of like the kindred of friendship.

So if you enjoy like the Chinese history or folklore or if you enjoy just like friendship like I think a dude would enjoy this anime.

Curiously, it reminded me an awful lot of the Wolverine and Kitty Pryde miniseries that came out last year.

This is one of these keeping Chris Claremont employed continuity implant miniseries that Marvel has been doing and that one involved Kitty Pride and a rival body swapping and dealing with the limitations and or extra abilities as the case may be of their new bodies and trying to go from being enemies to friends.

So perhaps, perhaps there's some crossover there that if you're a comic book geek like me, an X Men nerd who read and enjoyed that miniseries also takes place in a medieval Japanese like setting or at least an inspired setting.

So yeah, if you like that miniseries, perhaps this is something crossover.

I don't know.

And vice versa.

If you enjoyed though I am an inept villainess and you're looking for an X Men comic to read that might be one to help crossover that you can read on the new webtoon platform that I Am not being paid to advertise.

That launches in a month.

Do you have to pay for the webtoon?

Yeah.

Yes.

It's a paid subscription service.

I understand.

We do not condone piracy.

Well, libraries are also available.

My local library has lots of comics on Libby.

They've throttled our hoopla.

But if your library has hoopla and you have access to that, most of the big comic book publisher material is on hoopla.

Marvel, DC Image, Dynamite.

Idw.

All the big names are on hoopla.

So you can probably read it for free without having to resort to breaking international laws and pay.

Pay your library fees, people.

Because I got about like 50 bucks worth of library fees and like, oh boy.

But they don't accrue interest, do they?

Because I also have library.

Oh, that would be wild.

I have Libby.

So it just like automatically returns it if it's late, but that would be nice.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good.

Andy.

I just have to say, I know we're all super nerds here, but it's impressive how you can like pull an X Men reference like off the top of your head to something like, like most people wouldn't connect to at all.

Well, I did do a little bit of pre research.

I. I didn't want to.

Okay, okay, okay.

Be completely unfamiliar with what Liz are talking about.

Okay, never mind.

I thought, I thought that was literally like right off the top of your head.

Like.

Yeah, you're very.

Well, I, I mean, I will take credit for making that connection.

I did not look that up.

I just read it.

I had read about the, the premise of the anime before this, this show so that I would know what Liz is talking about.

Could maybe formulate a question or two.

That's fair.

Yeah.

But yeah, sometimes I prepare, sometimes I don't.

Let's see what happens.

Nonetheless, I would totally believe with your encyclopedic knowledge, if you could just be like, oh, that reminds me of this time.

Cyclops.

Silence.

Well, and Chris Kramer loved a body swap.

So there's any number of body swap stories from X Men lore.

So it's a target rich environment in this particular case.

Very cool.

Is there, is there another.

So if we, if we check this one out and we liked it, is there something else that you would recommend that has a similar vibe or you know, maybe because maybe we.

Maybe we paid for a month a Crunchyroll and now we want to see what else there is.

Like I said, Apothecary Diaries is another one too.

That is very similar.

But I can't think of the name as some kind of like, psychic princess or something like that.

Same, like, you know, Chinese, like his historic era, but.

Yeah, but really, Apothecary Diaries is probably the best bet with, like, the whole concubine and trying to get the emperor's favor and whatnot.

Gotcha.

All right, anybody else have thoughts on this one?

Before we move on to Lanterns, Liz,.

Does your son have a review?

Yes.

Shiloh says he asked me how he could get four concubines, and I told him that was frowned upon.

And today's age.

Little Aubrey.

Yeah, but, you know, he was.

He was shooting his shot, so we're gonna teach him how to respect women.

And I'm definitely gonna have to be careful with the type of anime and shows I watch moving forward.

Once he gets older.

Very sad.

You are gonna quickly be like, oh, he can understand things now.

Oops, pause.

Yeah, several moments I've been like, I need to not watch this right now.

Yeah, definitely not gonna be re.

Watching food wars anytime soon.

Alrighty.

Well, shall we move on then to Lanterns?

The latest offering from the DC Universe is that we're calling now this one is the dcu.

The dcu.

The dc.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Under its new parent company, which.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, we can maybe dig into that a little bit.

We'll see how the Lantern discussion goes.

Maybe I'll set us up a little bit and then you guys can chime in with your thoughts.

So this was eight episode miniseries about Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart, primarily the two Green Lanterns, Although Guy Gardner does make some appearances as well.

And it is kind of a true detective esque take on the Lanterns.

It's a murder mystery in a small town in the middle of America that has a extraterrestrial dimension to it, shall we say, as they investigate what's going.

On in this town.

Why does it seem to have so few sick people and so much wealth and so many weapons and advanced technology?

And in the midst of that, Hal Jordan is training Jon Stewart to be his replacement as a Green Lantern one day.

But isn't the most enthusiastic about that.

Did not sign up to have a trainee.

Did not go through such a process himself.

Did not realize that that was an option for the Green Lantern.

So he's a bit salty about all that.

So they have a strong tense dynamic.

And then we learn about Hal's past, John's past, the past of the small town and so forth, and get to go off planet and see a little bit of the wider Green Lantern universe, but not a whole lot.

There's definitely room to expand there.

We name checks.

You know, Mogo and I forget the squirrel's name, but not a lot of other Green Lantern lore.

And setting up presumably Aaron Pierre's Jon Stewart to appear in man of Tomorrow next year.

Although we'll see how exactly that looks like.

But yeah.

So I will open up the floor.

Kevin Evan, I don't know, Liz, if you've seen this one or not, but I'm guessing not, given your comments about not having seen much recently.

The only thing I know about Green Lantern is that cartoon back in the day with the black Green Lantern and Hawk Woman and Wonder Woman and.

Yeah, yes, yes.

That's the only thing I Justice League Unlimited.

I mean, that was my intro as well.

Sure.

And that's so.

So Aaron Pierre is playing that dream Lantern Jon Stewart in this.

Okay, so wait, that.

That Green Lantern like that.

Because then I remember when the movie came out, I was upset it wasn't that Green Lantern.

That's how the original and this one has both.

Yeah, there are a lot that there are a lot of land.

Like the the show only has Hal, John and Guy.

There are multiple in the comic.

There's Simon Baz, Jessica Cruise, Kyle Rayner.

There's a lot.

Yeah, I know.

Like, there's a whole like almost species of them, but I only want to.

Watch the OG no, this has, I mean, and this is very much a John story.

Like, I mean, it has to.

But this was like an example extended origin.

Yeah, I guess.

I guess.

All right, take the mic.

I'll go ahead and share my thoughts.

So, yeah, I know we've done several episodes on this series, both in the build up to it and then the early episodes.

And I would say I went from always intrigued, very excited for the show to intrigued by the pilot, but still like, okay, this is a lot of tackle and I'm not sure about spoiler alert, but Hal's dead at the very beginning.

So it'll build up to that.

And I wasn't sure how I felt about that at first, but over the course of these eight episodes, I have come to really love this show.

I think it's an excellent character study, an excellent mystery.

And the finale, even though it pretty much did nothing that the fans expected.

Like, there were few theories circulating all the whole time about like, oh, what if Hal's not really dead?

What if he becomes Parallax?

Oh, what If Sinestro leads the corpse and all these things and pretty much none of that happened.

And you could almost classify the season finale as anticlimactic.

I would argue that it's not.

I think it really ties in the emotional threads that have been laid out all season.

Because, like I was saying, like Liz, this really is an extended John origin.

It's about.

But also the relationship with him and Hal, which starts off super sour.

And how they become.

They come to have a respect for one another.

I love how that story played out.

I love how Jon, who in this series, he is trained from birth to become the Green Lantern.

His parents have literally.

And the Guardians have, like, chosen him and are training him in his whole life.

And he's conditioned to not have fear whatsoever.

And it all builds up to this one scene with the hologram.

Because this is like the hologram of Hal, of his memories after he's dead, but is his consciousness is embedded here.

And one line where Hal says to John, don't be afraid to be afraid.

Because the more they reveal about these characters as the season goes on, particularly, like, Evan, you and I were talking about, you know, a few weeks ago, like, okay, this is really good, but I do want to see more of Hal's backstory explored.

And they did that about.

Was that two episodes.

I was gonna ask you about that.

Yeah.

Or no la.

Or wait, no.

Last week's episode.

So episode seven, when they do a flashback to Howls origin and the struggles with mental health that ran through generations of his family.

And we learned that his father took his own life and.

And how has been conditioned to put aside his feelings.

And that's changed the directory of his character.

And ultimately at the end, he learns to say no.

Like, this is B.S.

Like, I think the.

Where we're stronger as Lanterns and we're stronger as people if we actually embrace our emotions.

So I loved all of that.

How that handled.

And then the mystery element of, you know, who killed Hal and it turns out to be Carrie.

And.

Oh, yeah, I do have a question about this, because I was watching a podcast the other day and like, you know, because that scene, it was shot in an interesting manner.

And I.

So I took it as.

When they reveal that Carrie, like, in a moment of panic, shoots how.

Anyways, it was because when he.

I gathered what he was saying to her was, we need to get away from Noah.

Because once he learns that Noah is a Manhunter and has the power to do things that.

They already saw this with Zoe previously.

He's saying to Carrie let's run away together.

Liz, for context.

So Hal has a thing with the Sheriff in the show that explored over this 10 year gap.

And her son turns out to be one of the Manhunters that are programmed to basically eliminate civilizations and, and proposes a massive threat.

But I read that people are debating whether he was saying to her, oh, let's all three of us run away together to another planet, figure something out, or was he saying, let's you and I run away away from him.

And, and that was what prompted Liz, I mean, prompted Carrie to act so rashly and kill her?

I think so.

I was curious what your thoughts were.

Yeah.

Because she's like, how, how can I leave if, like, I, I, I trained him.

I raised him.

I raised him.

So she did such a good job in raising him.

And I could see how him saying to leave because he, he's dangerous.

What caused a cognitive dissonance.

And she freaked out.

She freaked out, right?

And it's like, I mean, and she is also a character who is running from her past.

She has this conflicted relationship really, with the Manta as a whole.

She was saved by a Manhunter, so who is like Noah's grandmother.

And so she carries all this baggage.

And I think it just came out and in a moment.

And anyway, there was also like, I mean, of course, I've read a lot of discourse and you look at complaints, we'll get into a minute like, you know, whether they should have had more of the Grand Lantern mythos and more traditional superhero fare in this or not.

But I think because he was rescued by Zoe, he had all his baggage.

I mean.

Yeah, not that I just.

Oh, I know.

I was going to say there were people were mad that she wasn't brought to justice here in this episode, but I also got.

She said she was going to turn herself in after the game, and I don't.

I kind of do believe her there because she knows she carries the weight and the guilt and, and a lot of it that is reinforced when she sees Hal's hologram in that was, Was that last week's episode too?

I think it was, yeah.

When John and Hal, or Hal, like, goes to visit her and she's like, devastated, like this mix of emotions in her face when she sees him again.

So I, Yeah, I mean, I, I think she was going to turn herself in and it's not like she's a raging maniac and, and is like a major threat, but she did something horrible in the moment.

But I, I wasn't really needing to Just, oh, I need to see her behind bars by the end of the episode.

Like I, I kind of figured she would be.

But yeah, the discourse was.

Evan, what are your thoughts though on the finale?

I know we've talked about the show.

In previous, so this is the first time in a while where I watch a show and I'm not a part of the discourse because I'm not on social media right now.

And it gives me kind of like some room to breathe and stuff.

So in a way I miss it and in a way I don't, but I really liked it.

I, I loved how HBO it felt like the whole thing was just Kashf Kiss and, and it was very.

The top tier mystery.

I felt I was like two steps behind the show.

Like, I felt I was kind of dumb.

But this show was this just kind of nice enough to drop some clues here and there on things and.

But I love the way it or the ended with Hal and John's relationship.

It was.

I, I generally did not think, I thought they were going to, to keep the tension going after this because I didn't think that the two people could, could, could, could.

Could reconcile themselves just to pretty much all that you said.

I can't really think of a lot there right now, but as in, I don't know.

I thought I had my thoughts together, but I don't.

So.

No, you're good.

And Andy, right before I get your thoughts, one thing I just want to say is like, you know, the.

Because Evan, one of the things about the discourse was people were just disappointed by the quote unquote, like lack of comic book elements in the finale especially.

And it was a lot.

And, and I, you know, I get, I mean I, you know, I'm a obviously a huge superhero fan.

Super, huge comics.

And you and I were talking about like, hey, it would be nice to show even some flashbacks like Hal in.

I thought there was going to be.

Something doing some right.

Doing something like I still would have liked that, don't get me wrong.

But I also thought it was kind of Chef's Kiss in this show in particular to have a put storytelling first above all.

But also like I'm thinking about the John and Noah storyline and yeah, the expectation there would have been to have a big fight with the like, you know, the teenage manhunter goes wild and, and that's where John.

Yeah, that would have been fine.

But also it proved it was a harder test for Jon to see how he handled that moment in that conversation.

That is what proved him.

Oh, it was Beautiful.

Like that's what proved him as, oh, you're the Green Lantern and you're take up the mantle.

The way he handled that and so like, and gave the kid confidence that, oh no, you can choose your own path just because of your program.

And it doesn't actually mean anything like, because also condition.

I didn't think about that because he was literally programmed.

But.

But like, I'm thinking back to the conversation that John had with, with the Guardian and how she didn't know the difference between programmed and race.

I thought that was interesting.

So I thought that was beautifully handled.

But Andy, I'm curious on your thoughts because we talked, I think, at the beginning of the season and in the build up to it.

But what have your thoughts on the finale and the season as a whole.

Yeah.

So I think.

I think I ended up pretty much in a similar place to where I started.

I think it's a very well executed version of what it seemed like they were going for.

They were obviously interested in doing certain kinds of things and not doing certain kinds of things.

And I think they did a good job.

I just think that it's not, to me, much of a Green Lantern story.

It's an interesting story and asks some interesting questions.

I just think that it missed out on taking advantage, full advantage of what you can do with a Green Lantern story.

Specifically.

You know, I joked on an episode with Christian recently, you know, nobody gets called poozer at any point in the show.

And, you know, there's definitely that superficial element of, you know, there's a lot of the Green Lantern lore that isn't there, whether it's Kilowog or much.

You know, we don't really see the Guardians and all their smurfiness.

We do.

They are represented, but not in their usual guys.

We don't get any of the multicolor rings until maybe kind of at the end.

Although I'll get back to that in a minute.

But yeah, so.

But I think more to the core of what makes a Green Lantern story a Green Lantern story.

Right.

The whole premise of Green Lantern asks the question, how would you make the world better if you were only limited by your imagination and your willpower?

And there were definitely some themes of willpower in the show, but not very much imagination.

On one level, Jon Stewart's arc is he goes from solving problems by shooting things in the head, shooting someone in the head, to when confronted with a similar scenario, not shooting that person in the head.

And yes, that is good character growth, but it's not terribly imaginative.

And as somebody who was very excited to see Aaron Pierre in this, based off of his performance in Rebel Ridge and the story in Rebel Ridge, to me that's a story where you take away the magic wishing ring.

But it's very much a story about what can you do to make the world better if using your imagination and your willpower.

Because he is not interested in just killing people.

He's very much trying to solve the problems in that story with by being more imaginative than that and finding ways to resolve issues without resorting to lethal violence.

And so, yeah, in a lot of ways, to me, that was the more interesting Green Lantern esque story starring Aaron Pierre and dealing with questions of racial justice and police authority and so forth.

But yeah, I mean, I don't necessarily have a problem with the themes that the story was engaging with, the its approach to different topics.

You know, I thought one thing I did appreciate was another thing maybe will stick with me the most is the observation that Jon Stewart's dad, Jon Stewart Sr. Was presented with the opportunity to be a Green Lantern and asked, you know, are you afraid?

Do you have fear?

Something along those lines.

And he doesn't pass the test.

However exactly the timeline shakes out.

I guess no, I guess must be sooner than that because Jon Stewart is more than 18 or 20 years old in the show.

And so I thought that was a very pointed way of underlining that theme.

There's a lot of questions about nature and nurture and programming and raising and free will and all that that I thought were interesting.

I'll do another poll here on the Mindscape podcast with Sean Carroll.

He had Greg Caruso on just last week talking about free will and whether we have free will.

And I think his answer to that question, that by and large we don't have free will, I think would echo a lot of what this show was talking about.

That so much of our choices, the choices we are even able to make, the options that are available to us when we are confronted with a choice, and then the decisions that we do make in those moments have a lot to do with our past experiences and things that we had no control Over.

So if you're interested in engaging in that topic, that's a way to get a little bit further.

As a counterpoint, Kevin Mitchell was also a guest on that podcast.

A Little Bit further in the past comes from the opposite perspective of we do have free will.

Both gentlemen have books on the topic, and there are of course a million other points of view on those subjects, but those are things that were rattling around in my head when I was watching the show.

But yeah, so a lot of good stuff there.

Just, I would have preferred that if you're doing a Green Lantern show, it makes sense to me that you want to lean a little bit more into what's distinctive about Green Lantern show as opposed to a story that you could tell in a variety of contexts.

And I'm still a little bit bummed that so much of the DCU output is only for adults when you were the steward of characters that have been embraced by all ages and are so important to people of all ages.

I would like to see them have a few more things that were a bit more widely accessible.

Not everything has to be Spidey and His Amazing Friends, you know, for four year olds, but similarly, not everything has to be R rated and for 40 year olds, so.

No, that's fair.

It's R rated.

The Green Lantern TV show, I mean,.

So it's not technically R rated in that sense, but it's definitely for mature viewers only.

Whatever the TV show.

How many F bombs they be dropping just for fun?

Oh, a lot.

Yeah.

At least a dozen every episode.

Like, I don't mind, I don't mind room.

Right.

But when they just drop it just to further.

I don't even know why it's so annoying.

I wouldn't say it just for the sake of it, but like it's.

I mean.

But yeah, no, it's definitely an adult audience.

Yeah, there's definitely a flavor of, hey, we're on, you know, streaming.

We can do whatever we wish.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I felt like this was a show that they had to get out.

Like they felt like this was the right time to do this, so they went for it.

And now that they got it out of the way, they get, they can get into the more, you know, silly and the more superficial and the more alien.

But I think they just needed to get this out of the way.

That's kind of what I felt.

And.

And all I got to say is guys just go to therapy.

Guys, like, damn.

And so many times during this series, I'm like, just, you know, go to better help.

Go.

Go to better help.

You do you just download the app, man, When.

When Hal and his dad in his flashback episode, and he was basically downloading his trauma to his son, I'm like, bro, what the.

Just.

Just go to therapy.

Do something that.

Not that.

It really shook me.

I'm like, oh, it's.

It's getting me, like, hyped right now.

Like, don't do that.

I mean, it could be the epilogue for pretty much every superhero story.

Just go to therapy.

Just go to therapy.

As much as we love these characters.

Under the heading of, wait, don't do that, I'm curious how you guys reacted to John embracing the corrupted lantern, the Sinestro Lantern.

I was waiting for that.

And to turn yellow.

Yeah.

Like, maybe I'm just too biased by the.

The comics and especially the Geoff Johns rainbow saga, but I'm just like, okay, Jon Stewart just cracked the door open for Parallax.

That's what I said to my wife.

How's he gonna be a hero in the next Superman movie when he has just gone.

Not full Parallax yet, but certainly invited that in.

But maybe I'm reading too much into it, based on what I expect.

I read that too, but.

But they apparently just didn't go that way.

They focus more on John creating his own space, which is pretty cool.

But.

Yeah.

What were we gonna say, Kev?

Oh, yeah, no, that was about my only.

I mean, wasn't crazy about Sinister stuff ended.

I love the actor for it.

He was fantastic.

But.

But I wanted a little more there.

So if I have, like, criticisms of the finale, I would lean it toward that.

Granted, with how much, like, reinvention they've done, it could be something else.

Like, what that's setting up.

I don't know.

But, yeah, no, I.

That was, you know, not my favorite.

But I have.

And I do agree, what you said about this felt like, okay, they had a clear vision for what they wanted to do here.

And, yes, like, with the offering of the new dcu, so far it has been more adult, skewered.

It's not been a lot of family friendly.

But, you know, they've said from the beginning that each project is going to have a distinctive feel to it, and for the most part.

So, I mean, we want to limit it, but, like, yeah, Superman is very different from this.

You know, Superman, Supergirl, a little more similar, but there's still differences there.

And, you know, I. I'm glad that they had such a unique vision here and they wanted to tell the story, and it still has a place here, and they can also have the character carry over in the movies and probably do more of the traditional superhero stuff we expect from the comics.

So I like that there's room for different genres in this universe and different spaces.

So I think that's another reason why I did really enjoy it.

That's fair.

And, you know, hopefully, yes, we will see more.

More genres.

We'll see the DCU widen up.

It is.

It is early days, but, yeah, hopefully it'll expand.

And, yeah, I would love to have been more excited about Jon Stewart sort of forging his own path and embracing his own, you know, destiny or what have you.

I mean, it has your shades of the Last Jedi and Rey and all that.

And so, yeah, I really wanted to be behind him in that moment, and maybe I should have been, but.

Yeah, I couldn't let go of my.

But.

But.

No, you shouldn't.

You shouldn't embrace this.

You should want.

I got over it quick because of just the way, like, I loved his speech.

His speech was so perfect.

Yeah, he was so him.

The fact that he changed blackest night to darkest night, I was like, hell, yeah, that.

Yeah, that.

That could not have been an accidental.

Yeah, exactly.

I was just like, there we go.

There we go.

And then he fly to me, like, I thought there was, like, Neo at the end of the first Matrix movie where he flies by.

Yep, yep.

I will give you that.

That was definitely, definitely a solid moment.

But, yeah, it's.

It's a great show.

It makes me want to watch the first season of True Detective again.

I really like that one.

The.

My spoiler question is, is how really dead?

Because who was.

Who was the Manhunter?

The.

What's his name?

The kid, the.

Noah.

Noah.

He was talking to Hal when he was on the floor of his facility.

I'm assuming that was a clone.

And why didn't we see them again?

Or.

Or was that the one who died?

I have no idea.

I am.

I'm just confused.

Wait, are you talking.

Wait, are you talking, like, was that around with the fire?

Like, when.

The house before that.

That scene where.

Where Hal is on the floor of the meatpacking facility and he has that little.

That little scar on his arm?

And that's when we see that Noah is a Manhunter and he says that he created him or something or.

I don't know.

Oh, wait.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's.

That's.

That was still flashback.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

That was filling in some of the gap.

I see now what happened.

But, yeah, because all of it happened, like, within a week, like his death and then the finale, all that.

But, yeah, that was like.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

They could have done a little bit more to make the errors visually distinct, the characters visually distinct across the time series or something.

But.

Yeah, yeah, but if it.

If it meant we were spared some bad wigs, then maybe it's all for the best.

But that's always the go to solution for that.

Right?

Or be paste on mustaches.

Yeah.

Or.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

But I did appreciate for being like.

When we talked about it, Kevin, I said to not hold your breath, to see about getting answers to the questions that we had, but I surprisingly felt like they did answer most of their questions.

Like.

Yeah, they did.

Yeah.

Yeah, they did it in their own way, but I think they were all answered.

I think it was all kind of.

It wasn't like it just left everything.

Yeah, there was still some ambiguity, but I kind of praise it for that as much as.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, it definitely feels like it could be done right.

They could come back into a Lantern Season two.

There are things to pick up on, but if this was it, it wouldn't feel like, oh, you know, where's the rest of the story?

And frankly, the list of things that you rattled off, Kevin, that people were expecting to happen in the finale, I'm not sure where they were getting most of that.

I mean, you might as well ask, which one of these people is Mephisto?

Yeah, I know.

I know.

You got some fan, like, hardcore fans that just want to see everything from the comics come into play.

That would have been a lot.

Sure.

All right, well, I think we have.

I think we've covered a lot of ground here and want to be respectful of everybody's time, especially that of our youngest, that we know these moments don't last forever.

Eventually, he will wake up and need something, and so we should move on before that comes.

So thank you, everybody, for sticking with us.

If you watch this live or if you're watching or listening in the future, we appreciate that.

Feel free to rate review.

Like, share all those good things.

Yeah, share.

Tell people.

You don't even just have to rate things.

Tell a friend.

Put this on your Facebook or your blue sky or whatever.

Let people know what they've missed and what they could look forward to in the future.

We are especially thankful to Austin Nance and everybody who has provided us with financial support at some point along the way.

If you want to be one of those people look for the link in the show description in the video description and it will help you out with that.

Show you where you can get more cool stuff where you can buy our merch where you can become a member financial supporter where you can just find more episodes of the show if that's all you want to do we are happy to have you do that as well to listen to past and or future episodes jump around in time just like the lanterns.

And yeah we look forward to chatting with more chatting with you in the future about more new things more new geek stuff.

There's lots coming from Clayface to Doomsday to Dune to Street Fighter to all kinds of fun things so you can look forward to hearing probably about all those things and more in the future and until then remember if you're going to peak do so systematically.