🎙️In our latest episode, host Dr Ged Hall interviewed another of his #ResearchImpactHeroes Dr Tamika Heiden, founder of the Research Impact Academy and creator of the Research Impact Summit! Discover how one person's passion is beginning the process of creating a global community for research impact.

🔹 Hear Tamika's inspiring journey from PhD student to research impact entrepreneur, driven by a simple question: "Who makes sure my work gets to where it's needed?"

🔹 Learn the origin story of the Research Impact Summit - born from a sunny Melbourne day, a coffee in hand, and a borrowed idea that became a decade-long global initiative.

🔹 Explore the evolution of knowledge translation in Canada and how it shaped modern research impact practice worldwide.

🔹 Discover insights from the first Research Impact Ignite conference in Southampton and what it takes to build a thriving professional community.

🔹 Understand the challenges and opportunities for research impact culture in Australia and beyond.

If you're passionate about making research matter, building professional communities, and creating real-world change, this episode is for you!

Tamika shares her impact heroes too - a touching tribute to her team members Cathie Withyman and Kate Shook, who exemplify the dedication and passion that drives the impact community forward.

💡Find out more about the Research Impact Academy and the Summit or follow them on their social channels

RIA LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/research-impact-academy/

RIA YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@researchimpactacademy

RIA on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/researchimpactacademy.com

Podcast episodes mentioned in the interview:

1. Why impact matters more than labels with Tamika Heiden (Research Adjacents podcast Episode 75)
2. (Research Culture Uncovered S5E8) The Future of Research Impact Culture

Links to resources mentioned in the episode:

1. The Rt Honourable Lord David Willetts interview with the Institute for Government, reflecting on his time as a Minister.

All of our episodes can be accessed via the following playlists:

1. Research Impact with Ged Hall (follow Ged on Bluesky and LinkedIn)
2. Research Impact Heroes with Ged Hall
3. Open Research with Nick Sheppard (follow Nick on Bluesky and LinkedIn)
4. Research Careers with Ruth Winden (follow Ruth on Bluesky and LinkedIn)
5. Research talent management
6. Academic Failure with Taryn Bell (follow Taryn on Bluesky and LinkedIn)
7. Meet the Research Culturositists with Emma Spary (follow Emma on Bluesky and LinkedIn)
8. Research co-production
9. Research evaluation
10. Research leadership
11. Research professionals

Follow us on Bluesky: @researcherdevleeds.bsky.social (new episodes are announced here), @openresleeds.bsky.social, @researchcultureuol.bsky.social

Connect to us on LinkedIn: @ResearchUncoveredPodcast (new episodes are announced here)

Leeds Research Culture links:

1. Researcher Development and Culture Website
2. Our Concordat Implemention plans and progress
3. University of Leeds Research Culture Statement
4. University of Leeds Responsible Metrics Statement
5. University of Leeds Open Research Statement
6. University of Leeds Rsearch Culture Strategy - launched September 2023

If you would like to contribute to a podcast episode get in touch: researcherdevelopment@leeds.ac.uk

Welcome to the Research Culture Uncovered podcast, where in every episode we explore what is research culture and what should it be. You'll hear thoughts and opinions from a range of contributors to help you change research culture into what you want it to be.

Welcome to the latest episode of the Research Culture Uncovered podcast.

And then over the last year I've actually been doing some kind of special, uh, infrequent episodes, um, where I've been interviewing my research impact heroes. So I've already done a couple of those and, and the link to the, to that playlist is in the show notes too. Uh, the first of which was Mark Reed's and the second was Julie Bayley.

Um, both a load of fun for me to catch up with them. And the third I'm really looking forward to because, um, I've been a big fan, uh, Dr. Tamika Heiden from the Research Impact Academy in, in Australia for longer than I can remember, to be honest. Um. And, uh, I think, I think it's, if I think back, I, I, I think it was the first research impact summit that I attended where I thought this lady knows her stuff.

And, uh, so I'm really looking forward, um, to learning from her today. And hopefully, um, you all out there will, will hear a lot from her. Tamika, thanks for saying you'd be interviewed and welcome to the podcast.

Well, thanks for having me, Ged. And uh, it's nice to be someone's impact hero, so thank you for that.

That's, um, very sweet. Uh, yeah, it's been a while since that first, uh, summit, but I'm glad I started it then.

Absolutely. Yeah, and I think, uh, I think the whole community was really glad you started it because, um, you know, that was in the kind of nascent days of, uh, of research impact. You know, what I think was the first one in 2014 was it.

It was 2016.

2016. So we had had our first Research Excellence Framework, and we're trying to, uh, recover from it, I guess. Uh, and I, I think, uh, you know, once, once you've gone through a trauma, you know, the, the, maybe the first Impact Summit was part of that, uh, that part of that therapy session for us all in the UK.

Perhaps, perhaps. And, uh, I love that you call it a trauma.

Yeah. Well, to be honest, uh, it, it doesn't hit me hard because, uh, I am a, I am a bit of an impact nerd, so I quite enjoy it, to be honest.

Yeah. I, you know. I love meeting a good impact nerd, and, and there's plenty of us around. So, uh, I think, uh, we can all safely say that it, the, we enjoy the trauma.

Absolutely. We enjoy the messiness that, uh, that in, that's involved in all of that and the systems that we have to interact with. So. Tamika, one thing I always ask, uh, you know, ask Mark and, uh, and Julie when I interviewed them is, what, what was their journey? What makes you so passionate about research impact?

Why is your business all about it? And, uh, and kind of where's your career gone? And I know recently you were interviewed on Sarah McLusky, so you don't need to kind of do the, ah, you know, I was this and I was that, but you know, and I'll put a link to that. Episode, uh, on Sarah's podcast in, in the show notes too.

But you know, what, what's the kind of values reason for why research impacts and, and, and why you do it now?

Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. And um, look, I think for me. It really does stem back to the original reason that I got into research. Uh, and the reason I did a PhD. You know, I didn't grow up thinking I was gonna be an academic and I didn't grow up thinking I'd go to university.

But when I, I kind of came across the opportunity to do a PhD and, and realised it was a possibility, uh, for the first thought was, this can't be true, you know, the imposter syndrome creeps in. Uh, but secondly, I think it was. Wow. I have an opportunity to make a difference. I have an opportunity to do something that could change the world.

And that was my whole philosophy, and that's been my value. I, I'm a helper. I can't help myself. I'm a helper. I always wanna give advice and help people even when they don't want it. But, you know, um, people always say, you know, if you want something to get shared broadly, just tell Tamika. 'cause if it's great, she'll tell everyone.

Um, so, uh, but. What I realised pretty quickly in doing that is that I wasn't making that difference through the research I was doing, and it sort of sat with me, who's gonna do this, who makes sure that my work gets to where it's needed? The university must do that. Somebody must be out there doing that, or magic must happen.

Uh, and it was only through chance that I ended up getting. A position where it was on a grant that talked all about knowledge translation, and at that time. The people didn't really know what knowledge translation was. And so I started Googling and that's when I found people like David Phipps and Melanie Barwick and people in Canada and reached out to them and had great conversations.

And basically I fell into this because I went and trained in knowledge translation and later in impact and found my people and realised that through knowledge translation, research impact, I could change the world. Um, and importantly, do what I really love doing, help other people change the world. Uh, and so I, you know, that was kind of.

How it sort of happened. And the reason why I love this work is because ultimately I, I like making a difference. I like seeing benefit happen, and the best part is I'm not that much removed from research. So with my researcher kind of background, I feel like I still get to be in that world, but do what I am really passionate about and that is making that difference.

So for me, I guess that that's my values that drive me to do that, and that's why I decided to do it. I really did try to do it within an institute and to try and do it internally in a job I had already, and that was okay for a while. But ultimately in Australia we didn't have the context for that to happen internally, and I felt like I was being limited in my thinking.

And I come from a background of entrepreneurs, so ultimately I thought, you know what? I'm just gonna try and help as help more people, help as many people as possible and just took a leap and that was creepy and, uh, scary. And yeah, I don't know. I spent the first couple of years wondering why on earth I'd done this, uh, to leave a nice cosy position to, to do this.

Um, but again, I think it was that passion to do that. And everyone I spoke to said, you get, you just light up when you talk about this.

Yeah, that's, uh, that, that's really interesting 'cause your face has been, you know, we don't release the podcast unfortunately via video, but, you know, watching you tell me that story Yeah.

Your face has been lighting up in terms of, in terms of that. And um, I'm just really, just a quick follow up on that. I interviewed Vicky Ward as well and she was mentioning, um, how when she started moving into the kind of knowledge mobilisation space, she kind of. All her attention kind of went to Canada, uh, because that seems to be where it's, where the real magic has happened.

So tell us a bit more about that experience.

Yeah, so that was an interesting one and, and to this day I still find that really quite interesting, the fact that when. Put the words into, into Google Knowledge translation, that it was popping up people from Canada. So ultimately it was like, okay, this is something that happens in Canada.

Since since 2000. And I was kind of fascinated that no one is really talking about that in many other places. And what's perhaps really interesting about that is that they started this. Way of thinking. I know it's been in other ways, there's lots of other terminology and it tends to go in cycles, but they really positioned how can we embed opportunity for impact?

'cause that's what translation and mobilisation is. It's how do we create the opportunities for it and get the information where it needs to go so that we can then assess the impact of that. And I really liked that idea of front loading rather than let's jump to the assessment end when you've never been taught how to do it, funded to do it, rewarded for it.

So for me, that was a, a really interesting thing. And what's come full circle with that now is that we see people talking. Conferences and on blogs and things about, oh, we need to work out how to create impact, or we talk, uh, to people in, say, the UK who will be talking about assessing impact and they're talking about strategies for how to make more impact.

And it's like, why don't you look to this literature, to these examples of what's been happening? Just. They call it something different. They don't call it a pathway to impact. They call it knowledge mobilisation or knowledge translation. And I see the wheel being recreated time and time again.

Yeah, totally.

It's, uh, it's funny how, um. You, you can have those blinkers if you, if you only use the one, the one language. And yet when, when we're doing our literature searches, we kind of go, we really do kind of think how might somebody else have described what I'm describing by this three word term or whatever it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we systematically design those searches where, you know, maybe when we're doing our. CPD for instance, we forget that rigour. Is that

Yeah. Well I think there's over 90 terms used to describe this, right? Um, they don't all mean the same thing, but they get interchangeably used. So I think, you know, there's a lot we need to think about.

And how do we find that? No one's done a dictionary like that.

I think one of the, um, symptoms is because of the Research Excellence Framework and how big it is, you know, it affects 140 institutions across the uk. Um, it gets talked about in, in the research assessment world, um, quite, quite strongly. It gets copied.

Um, the Research Assessment Exercise in Hong Kong is almost like a cut paste, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely.

Uh, of, of that exercise, um, in fact. You know, I gave, I gave some advice to some colleagues in, in, uh, one of the universities in Hong Kong. And, uh, they said, you know, make sure you've read our guidance. And I read it and I thought, I think I've read all of that somewhere else.

Well, why recreate the wheel? Right?

Yeah, absolutely. So, coming back to you rather than wittering on about, uh, uh, about the Research Excellence Framework. Um. I, I, we were talking in the introduction about the Research Impact Summit, so I want. To take you right back to where the idea popped into your head.

'cause I know you're an ideas person. You know, was it, was it a sunny day in Melbourne with a coffee somewhere and you just go, oh, do you know what I'll,

you wanna know something funny? It was a sunny day in Melbourne, and I was walking from the coffee shop with a coffee in hand, so you're right on the money there.

There you go. Uh, so look, the, the truth of it is I, I kind of stole it. Um, well, not really stole it. Let's say innovated. Uh, I was starting my business, you know, I was, a couple of years in, I was listening to, uh, events online and there was a. A guy, um, who I think was in Singapore, an Australian, but sitting in Singapore, who was running all these free online events on all sorts of different things.

And he was calling them these summits. And so there was the LinkedIn summit, the, um, what was it? The, uh, the email marketing summit, the all these business things. And all I thought was, what a great structure. Imagine if we did this for. Research impact. And then I started thinking, well, imagine if we, and also I think, you know, in line with that, it was really around what if we could get all the best people in impact in the one room, in a conference scenario and hear from them and learn from them.

And what if we could do it without cost? Without the time issue, because we wanna overcome the two challenges that everyone always has. Everyone will tell you, I don't have time, I don't have money, so let's get rid of that. So let's do it online, because that's what this guy was doing. And I was like, okay, what would it look like?

And, uh, yeah, it just, so I innovated by borrowing from somewhere else. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's, uh, you know, I say I stole it with, uh, tongue in cheek, but ultimately I think if you see a good idea that's working somewhere, you don't have to change everything. You can literally just try to do it in your area.

You might have to tweak a few things, but, uh, I think, you know, we can do that pretty well. So it really stemmed from, from hearing that, from understanding that was a really great way to learn. But then also from a bit of a frustration for me, you know, I was two years into my business, I was still having conversations with people saying, this isn't important.

We don't care about this. And at this point to uh, to. Give a bit of context. I was still operating under that banner of knowledge translation very much, and people kind of going, but that's not related to impact. And I was getting really frustrated by the fact that people didn't realise that you can't really have one without the other.

So I thought, how can we educate as many people as possible? And again, that was the idea. This can be a global initiative to educate anyone who wants to listen, whether they're a researcher or a practitioner, or a funder, a policymaker, whoever could tune into this. So for me, I guess that was the reason why, and it's where it came from.

Yeah, that's, um, you know, as I said, I think it was the first one I signed up for. I was like, I was like, Ooh, this is, this is, I was intrigued by the idea actually. I like, how is this gonna work? You know, when you do, you do go and then, um. And then when you first asked me to, I was like, Ooh. I was to be, to be a, a guest on it.

'cause it's interesting. I wouldn't, I, I was, I was, as I was leading up to that, I was like, what word am I gonna choose? And guest is right because it, it is an interview, you know, just like we're doing now. And, and yeah. And there's, and there's been some fascinating things over the years. I can't say I've seen every single one because there's a huge amount of content over the 10 years.

Um, and. Which is still accessible, isn't it? You know, people can, people can still dive into that content. Um, this 10th, you've asked people to kind of reflect on, um, what's changed since they, since they were last. Um, they were last a guest on the summit. So what's, uh, would've been your highlights over the last 10 years of, uh, of doing them?

Can you

Ohh, well, I think for me there's been many speakers that have been a highlight. I think. Um. The, the most thing that's come out of it for me has been the generosity of the sector. So, as I said, the first one, you know, I had had an idea, but then it was like, Ooh, who do I get to interview? Who do I get to speak?

And it's a little bit like you with, uh, with how you said your getting an opportunity to interview your impact heroes. And that's what it was like for me. It was like, great, who do I know that. I would love to, to have these conversations with, and that I know would say yes. And, and in that first year we had amazing people like Melanie Barwick and David Phipps and Peter Levesque from Canada.

Uh, Simon Kerridge was on the first year, Steven Hill, uh, Mark Reed, um, was also on that first year. And so I called in a few favours with people and said, Hey, I've got a crazy idea. Can I interview you? Um, and then across the 10 years, there's also been some really big hitters. You know, Ged Hall was right in there.

Um. But we've all, we've also had people from a, a tech company. So someone from Evernote, uh, was interviewed and I was, you know, they said yes. It was amazing. I had the Chief Scientist of Queensland at the time, Jeff Garrett, who's a great mentor of mine, David Sweeney, when he was the executive chair of Research England, uh, Stephen Hanney, who published the original Payback Framework.

And that was an incredible conversation. I think we laughed the whole time. So that was kind of comedy. Um. And then on top of that, I think the, the thing that that's been really interesting has been the ability to get sponsorship now for the summer, which. Who would've known somebody planted a seed. And so I thought, oh, let's give it a go.

And so we've had support, uh, from, uh, Euan Adie, um, both as a speaker originally and now, um, Overton, his company's sponsored it several times, so that's been really lovely. We've also had sponsorship from, um. Uh, Sage Publishing and from BMJ and, and others. So it's been, uh, it's been a really nice thing to have that.

Um, there's been lots of other sponsors as well over the years. I just can't remember them all off the top of my head, but we have just been really fortunate and sometimes I've even reached out to professional speakers who charge for their time and had them come and speak and do it for nothing. I guess the thing I'm seeing right now though is that generosity starting to wane a little bit.

I don't know if it's a sector thing, but we're getting more and more people say, are you gonna pay me to do it?

Right. That's interesting. Now is, uh, I was gonna ask you that follow up of what next? So is that, is that putting the summit at risk or can we, um, can we keep people happy and go? It's still gonna carry on.

Um. It's a, it's something that's we are thinking about right at the moment because, you know, we've, we've done 10 years and it is a lot of work for the team. It's, it's crazy. Now when I think about it, the first one was me, my computer, in my study at home doing everything, building all the background, the systems, the, the membership site, getting.

I don't know how I did it, but it was days and nights and now I have a team of people, a small team that help me do it. So I don't know how I did it that first time, to be honest. Um, but I know it takes a lot of effort from us and, you know, it is a, a passion project. I'm gonna say. It's, uh, it's, no, we don't make money from it, but I, I look at it as my professional development.

I get to talk to people, I get to learn from them. Much like you said with, with the podcast. Um. So what we're looking at at the moment is, should we do this every year? Should we do it every other year? Uh, we are seeing numbers drop for attendance, but I will say, I have a bit of a mantra around that, that it doesn't really matter how many people you get as long as the people you get.

Learn and are engaged. So it's more about quality rather than quantity. And I think that's a mantra we can go with in impact generally. Um, but we've got a few other things going on. So maybe every two years, maybe every year. I, I'm not sure, um. Watch this space. Uh, January's my thinking time. So we will see, uh, whether it happens.

Yeah, yeah. It's lovely. It, it's lovely to think about that in the southern hemisphere when you, you know, we, we, we've just done some, um, webinars for the World Universities Network and, and the team at, uh, WUN, the central team said, you gotta think about not doing them in January for the Southern Hemisphere.

And you kind of go, oh yeah, summer.

Yeah. Everyone's just. Holiday.

Yeah, absolutely. That's why cricket's currently happening down, down there, isn't it? Mm-hmm.

Yes. And I'm sorry that we're killing you guys.

Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. So bringing it back to Australia actually, just a bit more widely, um, what's your current analysis, I guess, you know, what, what's the temperature check of, of culture around research impact in Australia?

I think it's a, it's a really interesting question. We've got some incredible people working in impact in Australia. We've got people who are driving the sector here, doing the work that they do. You know, Wade Kelly, um, is one example. Um, there are others that have just gone a blank, um, sorry to the others in Australia.

But look, there, there's, there's heaps of people in Australia doing incredible things, um, in impact space. That said, I think. As a sector, our culture is up and down. For example, we are seeing impact creep into our grants and the fact that people have to write impact case studies in. Their, uh, funding applications means that we've seen a culture shift around I need to understand and do better with impact in the medical sector because that's where that's landed.

Um, so I believe that's changing culture, but more because it's pushed into having change. And that's exactly the same as REF. It's changes culture because essentially people have to do it. There is a return on investment, so to speak. Um, I feel like more broadly though, our government. Is not really there in terms of what they want to do.

Um, we don't have those drivers, you know, so you're not likely to, to get a job here. Um, as a Research Impact Manager or Officer, you may have some of that in your job, but your job would be much broader than just impact. Um, you'd have a very mixed role. Uh, what I think though is that, you know, um. The culture piece is tricky.

Without the driver, I honestly think you have to have the drivers first. While we're still rewarding people for just doing a publication. Uh, we're not going to, to have that culture change. I don't think there's any researcher that doesn't genuinely want to make a difference, but given all of the time constraints and the other competing factors, they're gonna do the things they have to do and that they do get rewarded for.

Um, so I don't think it's an issue with that. Um, yeah, I I wish that we, we had a clear picture on what might happen and where it's going. I think, um. You know, if, if we were to think about what the possibility is, so for example, our government are exploring some options around it, so maybe that will change some things.

However, um, they are concerned about burden, uh, they're concerned about, um, you know, the, the workload on the workforce and. Because of that, I think they're trying to take an easy journey. So they're trying to come up with shiny dashboards and um, very metric based assessments. Um, they're trying to come up with data collection systems that are going to track things.

But I think that will oversimplify it, if I'm honest. Uh, I don't think impact's that simple. I think it's really complex. I think it's different every single time you look at it. Um, so if I had to think about. What they might do to change the culture? I think that we would need to have a serious assessment if we're gonna do it.

I always say, if you're gonna do it, do it properly. Uh, if you are, you know, if you are gonna do it in a half, you know, sort of way, then don't do it at all because you, you are just wasting time and resources. Um, yeah. So I think our culture needs to be driven from external factors rather than. The, the few of us in Australia that are trying to drive it from that other side, um, which makes it really hard for us.

Yeah. Um, yeah, that's interesting. It, it obviously the drivers need to be there and the coalition of the, of the willing as well. So, um, so I'd, I'd, I'd agree on both of those points, you know, and, and when you only have the coalition of the willing, if there's no. If there's no promotion of those, of that, of the people in that coalition, and I don't mean formal promotion, I mean the, I mean they're just, yes, this is the right thing to do.

That's, that seems to be coming from other strong voices then. Then it's easy, very easy to be crowded out from with the other demands on, on the system, and it's a massive. It is a massive conflicting and competing set of demands that all higher education systems face across the world at the moment.

Yeah, I, I don't know what the answer is.

Uh, I think other countries are perhaps more progressive. Sometimes. I feel like in Australia we're very. Risk averse. We wanna do things the easy way. It takes us a long time to kind of catch up. I mean, the REF, the Research Excellence Framework was an Australian thing that you guys took because we decided not to do it.

So some people say, yep, great, they took it. We don't have to do it. Other people might be thinking it would be useful. Look, I, I think there's a couple of reasons that we do need to, to have something here. Uh, one of those reasons is that I think that, um. And, and I don't just say this because I run a business in this, but I do think that if we did an assessment, we would overcome our funding crisis.

So at the moment in Australia, we have an issue around percentage success rates in grants, as an example, uh, because there's not a lot of funding in the system. So a recent grant example was an 8% success rate. Now eight percent's pretty low. When you think about the amount of work that goes into creating these, uh, and writing these proposals.

In my opinion, and, and you know, this is just my opinion, I think that if we are able to better showcase the return on investment from the money put in, we then have an argument for putting more money into that system. Um, we can lobby for it. It's like if you have a nonprofit organisation that survives on donors, well the donors aren't gonna put in unless you're making a difference.

So you have to, you know, those. Those organisations are constantly reporting on what they've done with the money, the benefits they've created in research. I don't think we do that very well. We don't ever tell anyone what we did with the money. We don't report on how we spent public dollars. We are spending taxpayers' money.

We owe them a, you know, some kind of feedback on why they should keep investing in us.

Yeah. We're not doing a great job of demonstrating our worth. Um, now in the UK REF has definitely helped with that from my opinion. Um,

um. The inclu, you know, the inclusion of impact in REF was something that prevented, um, a huge cut, um, to the science budget, as we call it science. The science budget funds research in all disciplines in, um, in the UK.

Um. And that actually is, uh, if you want the, uh, if you want the source of that, that's the actual, um, minister, uh, that was responsible for, for REF at the time. Uh, David Willetts. So it was an interview for him on the Institute for Government, where he actually says that, um. Actually post, post, the first REF, there were funding pots that had never been available to researchers suddenly opening up in the UK.

And you just go, oh, I wonder, I wonder where, you know, in terms of the back channels, where that's been negotiated, what, what was used as, uh, as, as part of the argument. Uh, and so, you know, I think we've got to look at those, those things like assessment and go, when are they useful for us? Yeah.

Yeah.

When do they, when do they make our arguments?

But, um, I think we should probably move on 'cause I know it's getting late into your, into your evening as it, uh, as my morning kind of winds up. Now, you've mentioned a number of time people and tribes and, um, you are, you are back in, uh, you are back in Australia now after being here in the UK for the research.

The first Research Impact Ignite, uh, conference. Um, which was in Southampton and, uh, a lot of us from Leeds attended and a lot of people, uh, attended from all over the place. Actually. Lots of colleagues from Europe, uh, colleagues from Canada. So I, again, I'm gonna get you to take us back to that. Um, Research Impact Academy Ideas Day, where you kind of came up with the idea and, and, and tell us a bit more about your reflections on it.

Just kind of, you know, it's a, it's a couple of weeks since the conference happened, you've started getting some feedback. Um, what are your reflections on it?

Yeah. Well, my first big reflection is ew, uh, pulled that off. I don't know how, but I guess to take you back to the ideas. You know, the team day where it kind of became an idea.

Um, it was on that day, you know, there were three of us around the table, so a small group of my team. Um, and we don't often get together in person because we live all over, but two of us were essentially big ideas people, lots of ideas. That's, that's, uh, just how we think. And the other is somebody who gets quite excitable and basically makes things happen and.

That's a dangerous combination. Um, it's also an exciting combination because really, uh, you know, my team just said, what are we gonna talk about? And I said, well, maybe we should talk about things we should stop doing. And we had a whole conversation about all the things I didn't wanna do anymore 'cause they were boring or just I tired of them or don't really like them.

And that led to the question, well, what do you want to do? Which I don't know if I had been thinking about conferences at the time. More, most likely I had been thinking, what conference can I go to that has enough impact content that I can get my money's worth? Because you know, sometimes you pay thousands of dollars and you go and there's four, four presentations on impact over two days.

And you're like, okay, well, or there's six and they're all on at the same time. Um, I don't know who makes these programmes up, but anyway, um, so I started to think. About how it would be really cool to run a conference that was just on impact, but, and they sort of said, well, you do the summit. And I said, no, no, no.

I wanna do a conference in person. That's not just me interviewing people. I wanna do a conference in person and I want it to be for people who do this stuff so I can learn from them. Um, so kind of, again, it was a bit. Of a ploy to get people in the room that I could learn from. So if you want to hear all the presentations, what could you do?

So I sort of said, oh, maybe we should run an in, you know, an in-person conference. And they sort of said, okay, that sounds like an interesting idea. And I, and then I said, because I'm crazy, maybe we should do it in the UK. And I dunno where that came from, but essentially I went, if we're gonna have people come to this thing, it has to be in the UK because there's more of an audience, of course, there's more of a profession.

Um. There's, there's numbers. So, uh, so essentially that was what happened. And within, you know, an hour, we had a website, we had a name, we had a blurb, uh, we, we had a logo. I don't know what happened, but it all, the train left the station pretty fast. We kind of went home, I started thinking about it and going, am I mad to do this?

Um, where am I gonna run it? Oh my gosh, what if no one registers? What if no one wants to come? It's gonna cost me money to put this on. There was so many things, um, around that. Um. I'm glad it worked. I, I loved it. I loved every minute of it. I, it was exactly what I wanted it to be. It was a group of people coming together, networking, discussing, enjoying, um, time in person together.

I got to meet people in person I hadn't met in person before, like Julie Bayley, um, which was quite amazing. We've met many times online, but never in person. So. Super exciting for me. Um, and you know, it was great to see how connected the sector was and even the new people coming in were like, people here are amazing.

So I really liked that. And so my reflections on the back of that are both, um, thank God it worked. And secondly, um, just the fact that I think from the reaction from watching people interact there, I believe that what we did. Was what I wanted it to do. Um, we're obviously still getting some feedback. Um, personally I'd love to do it again.

Um, I don't know when, uh, I also worry because the first time you can do something that's unique. Mm-hmm. Uh, then anything subsequent to that might not be as good. You know, it might be, well kind of been there, done that. How do you keep. Evolving something, innovating on top of it, making it better. Um, I, I don't like to just do the same old, same old.

I like to improve things and change things, and that's also an issue because it takes a lot of work. Um, so I think, you know, uh, on the back of that. Yeah, I'm quietly and I, I quietly am patting myself a little bit on the back. I'm just gonna say, um, as much as that sounds really horrible, but also I just keep thinking about how my team in the background just really pulled this together.

And when I talk about that, you know, I have a, a very small team, but really there were three people that pulled this together. Um, and that's a very small number of people to pull a conference together.

Yes, it is. It is. Absolutely. Um, so just a couple of things I wanted to kind of pick out on. Um, so, you know, going back to a really early episode, I did probably 20, 23 time, um, I kind of did one around what's the future of, um, research impact culture and, and one of the.

One of the comments that came up, 'cause I tried to kind of crowdsource contributions to that episode with me just kind of synthesizing them and one of the, one of the contributions came in and said it. I interpret it as, okay, I'm a member of maybe. Arma the Research Management Association in, in the, in the UK or the equivalent ARMS?

Is it in

Yeah.

In Australia.

Yeah.

Uh, and, and New Zealand. But actually I don't feel like I kind of naturally fit, you know? Yeah. That, you know, I'm, I'm a subset of that, of that group, but actually my. My overlap is not as great as I'd like it to be in a, in a professional body. And I asked that question kind of like at the end of the the episode, do people want to.

Professional body for impact or, or, you know, not, not quite like surgeons for instance, but, uh, licence to practise and all of that. But, you know, something along those lines. A professional body for impact and, um, you know, that that's one of the issues with podcasts. I, I, I still don't know if anybody answered that Yes.

Or anybody answered that question. No. But it sounds like, sounds like you. Would, would maybe go for, for a yes. What would, what would be your answer?

Yeah. Look, I, I think I would say yes. I think those professional associations are great. I feel like they take a lot of work. Um, but that said, this is a sector who really wants to do this.

So I definitely think it would be something quite powerful to have that. It would take some thinking. I don't think we would wanna structure something like that the way that. Perhaps some of the other, uh, research associations are structured because I think it's a lot of work. But I think, yeah, definitely.

Um, I can see global chapters perhaps, um, of a, an organisation. I can see online meetings. The problem we have is time. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, you know, time zones are an issue. We have issues of people being busy as it is. Um. That's why I think a lot of those professional associations end up with paid staff doing a lot of that work.

Um, so then you've gotta make money. Um, yeah, it can be a really interesting one, but I think, you know, I'd definitely be something I'd be interested in being a part of, but I don't know how it might look or work.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. It's a, it's one of those ideas you look at and go, Ooh, it hard to kind of make it a reality.

Um, the other thing I wanted to ask about is, um, obviously you took it on yourself and, and I think, uh, you know, I'm sure it's coming through in the feedback, and it was definitely the feeling in the room was that the community was really grateful for you kind of, you know, essentially picking up the stick on your own and, and running with it.

Um, so how can we help? What would you mm-hmm. What would you like from us to kind of help make it happen again?

Yeah. Look, I think from, from my perspective, and I, and I said this really early on to basically everyone I spoke to about this when I was kind of asking people's ideas, you know, reaching out to the sector and going, am I, am I mad?

Um, and a lot of people going, yes, but let's do it. Um, but ultimately I'm hopeful that this perhaps becomes. Quite a community driven event. Uh, you know, I picked it up and said, let's try it out. Um, but I would love for the community to say, come hold it at our university, or we know we can. Um. Search out venues in our area or, because that's the hardest thing.

I don't, I'm not on the ground there. I now have the structures around how the background can work, but I think the community needs to, to take some more ownership of this. I think, um, help out with, you know, what I'd love to see is maybe help out in that way. Um. And, you know, obviously I know that if we did another one, people would happily volunteer to be part of the, the committee because we, we love this stuff and, and you know, like you were on the committee for, for this one.

Um, and so I don't think there's any issue with people taking on some of those roles. I think, um, it's more of that who could be on the ground doing some of that work. Because I was fortunate this time to have somebody I knew very closely. At the venue who could be that for me, but if I move it anywhere else, I don't have that.

And so that's another risk is where do we run it? Do we move it? Would it cost more? There's so many questions around that. Yeah. But I guess as a community, I think, you know, that's what I'd love. If someone put up their hand and said, Hey, we have a conference venue near us that does great deals for our university.

Let's have a look at that.

So if any listeners, uh, uh, you know, that sparks an idea in your head, just get in touch with Tamika

Yeah. In a, in a while.

Yeah. Don't, don't hassle it too soon.

Yeah.

Okay. Tamika, I, I know it's getting late in, in Australia. And uh, and we need to wrap up. So the final question I always ask people on this series, Research Impact Heroes, 'cause you're one of mine.

Um, it was lovely working with you on, uh, with Epigeum when they asked me who should we get from somewhere else to, you know, outside of the UK, you were the first name that came into my head and we had a great time on that project. So

yeah.

Who are your research impact heroes and why? And I'd love you to try and land on someone.

Yeah, that, that one.

Oh, well, I think I'm, I think I'm gonna disappoint you though, Ged. I'm just gonna say, um, look, I, I think there's too many to mention. I've got so many mentors, so many connections. I think that every person that supports impact and works in this community that's furthering the discipline, that's furthering the practise.

I think every single one of them is a hero because it's not easy. We deal with people, we deal with personalities, we deal with timelines. We deal with funding. We deal with egos, we deal with guideline changes, and we deal with all those challenges. But I guess if you want me to answer a question and I've been thinking about this because it is really hard.

Uh, I picked two and they're not gonna be what you expect.

That's good.

I love surprises.

So my two impact heroes, and I'll tell you why. So my two impact heroes are Cathie Withyman and Kate Shook, and they are my team. And the reason is not because they're well known in the sector or not because they've published books or they've written papers and publications and they don't necessarily have big international profiles in impact.

But they are my heroes because they finish my sentences. They can read my mind, they step up for me when I'm not available. Uh, for example, over the last couple of years, I've had two major deaths in my family and. They've been able to, to pick up the work and continue it on. Um, they also have to tolerate me.

So they definitely are my hero because I sort of turn up with these crazy ideas and people take a breath and go, okay, what do you mean? Um, and so look, I think they're my heroes because like me, they're driven, they're passionate, no matter how hard it might be. They turn up, they wanna help people to have impact.

So I, I hope that's not, um, too much of a, a cop out. But I, I do genuinely feel that if there were two people that I had to call out who are my heroes every day, that's them.

Brilliant. Um, yeah, it's, uh, you mentioned, you mentioned those, uh, bereavements and uh, you always remember the people who hold you at that time.

Yeah, absolutely.

Exactly.

Yeah, so thank you for that. I, I obviously have met Kate. I've never met Cathie, but I've seen her name in, uh, in LinkedIn posts. Um, so it's lovely to, to hear about them, um, and, and hear why. So that's, uh, that's really important. And uh, and maybe Cathie Kate You might be getting an invitation at some point down the line, and I'll, uh, I'll not be immediate.

You might, it might be a surprise in a year or two's time

Exactly.

On the research Impact Heroes list. So thank you for, thank you for naming them and thank you for giving me your time. Um, you know, in, in the evening and. And down in Australia. And, uh, is there anything you'd, uh, you'd like to say to finish off and, and certainly say bye to all our listeners?

Yeah, look, Ged, thank you so much. Um, I love that you do this and I think it's really valuable, these types of interviews to, to, to learn and hear from people. And I know I love listening to the, to the podcast people that you've interviewed and, um, and I'm incredibly proud. Privilege to be asked to be part of it.

So thank you for that. Um, and as always talking to you, it's, I've learned as much from you as I hope that, you know, through this conversation you've learned from me and I just really appreciate it. So thank you so much and thank you to the listeners, um, who get to listen to this. I hope that there's something there for everyone as well.

And if they have an, a venue, you know, in a year or two, just let me know.

Thanks a lot Tamika, and uh, thanks for listening everyone.

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